Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Nancy Pelosi

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

From a housewife in the 1960s to the first woman to serve as Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi is an inspiration. She is also one of the most influential women in American politics, whose desire to make a difference led her into public service and into our history books. For decades she has used her voice to champion human rights, full equality, affordable health care, and the environment. Speaker Emerita Pelosi joins Sophia to talk about her journey into politics, how motherhood played a key role in her career, being proud of her battle wounds — or as she calls them, "badges of honor” — and her hopes for future policy change. She also shares her advice for women who want to run for office. Together, Speaker Pelosi and Sophia rehash the DNC, and then Nancy reveals her work in progress, and the reason she wrote her new memoir, "The Art of Power: My Story as America's First Woman Speaker of the House" out now.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to this week's very special episode of Work in Progress. My fellow Whipsmarties who are politically engaged, who love their communities who love their families, who love the idea of progress. Today we have perhaps one of the best guests we've ever had, a progressive in every sense of the word, a woman who has made history more times over than I can bear to count. And someone who I have looked up to for my

entire life, today we are joined by Nancy Pelosi. You guys, she's here. I can't believe it. We are going to talk about her political career. We'll probably only be able to touch a few points because there's more than we could squeeze into an hour, but I can't wait to ask her questions about how she got started. Some of you might not know that Nancy actually began as a volunteer in the Democratic Party in the 1960s. And then if you fast forward to 1987, when she was first elected to Congress, she was 47 years old, a mother of five, and managed to steadily rise through the ranks of the House Democratic Caucus to be elected the House Minority Whip in 2001, then elevated to House Minority Leader, a year later and then became the first woman to hold each of those positions in either chamber

of Congress. Nancy Pelosi is the chief architect of some of our generation's most defining legislation under two Democratic administrations, including the Affordable Care Act and the American Rescue Plan. She led the House Democrats for 20 years, even having served as the House Democratic Whip. I was fortunate enough to help host a farewell to Nancy Pelosi in 2023, and she announced that she would not re-seek her positionist speaker to make way for Hakeem Jeffries. She is truly such a team player in that she always wants to advance democracy for all. And that night, I got to watch her in a room full of reproductive rights advocates, election volunteers, officials from various organizations, and even the second gentleman.

And it was the most inspiring thing for me to look at a woman who has been such a transformational leader. in our country and also just get to see her hang out with this intergenerational group of people that she has affected for the better. I am just beside myself today. We are going to talk to Nancy about everything, all the things, and even her newest book, The Art of Power. My Story is America's first woman speaker of the house. Okay, I'm going to stop talking so you guys can hear from Nancy. Let's get into it. All right, here we are. Here we are.

It's so, so lovely to see you. Thank you so much for coming to join us today. My pleasure to be. It was wonderful to see you at the convention. That was exciting, huh? It really was. It just made my absolute day to see you there. And no less to see you there while we were all joyfully singing along to Brandy Carlyle.

And she wonderful. I love her. She's so amazing that the DNC for me was such a reminder that, because policy is personal, you actually can feel joyful when you advocate for a better future. And I'd missed that feeling. How did it feel for you? How did this DNC in particular feel for you? Well, this Democrat National Convention was really a joy to behold because it was so hopeful. I know they were using the word joy.

The joy will celebrate when we win the election. That is what we have to do. And I think that the joy was combined with a sense of purpose that we, this is, for the moment, a happy occasion. But what comes next? It's always about what comes next. And what come next has to be channeling that exuberance into mobilization at the grassroots level, messaging in a responsible way, and getting the resources together to win. Yes. And it's really such a complex task to, when I, as a civilian, granted a total policy nerd who loves your world.

But when I examine from the outside what you all do as law-making. I really think about the complexity of all the dialectics you're asked to hold at the same time. You have to advocate for people. You have to figure out how to take care of people, many of whom need to be cared for in different ways. You have to make it all work inside of a budget. You know, the math and the morals have to align. And you do have to figure out now, perhaps more than ever, how to cut through noise and disinformation and at times domestic terror.

I mean, it's an immense task. And for me, as I sit here, so excited to interview you today. And as I sat with you all at the convention last week, it isn't lost on me the amount of history to get us here that you in particular have helped to lead us through. You know, I haven't had the actual privilege of being one of your technical constituents, but as a Californian, I always feel like you're, you know, you're not my mom, but you're like my auntie in politics. And the 37 years of a career that you have had has spanned so much change. And I want to go back before we talk about, you know, the intricacies of this moment because something I'm not sure everyone knows but needs to know is that your career actually began in the 1960s as a volunteer for the Democratic Party.

You talk a lot about how you went from being a housewife to a member of the house. And then eventually you became the speaker of the house. What was it like as a mom in the 60s? What was the calling that made you say, you know, I want to get involved. I want to volunteer my time. How did the seedling get planted that led to this, you know, great big, beautiful tree you've grown over all these years? First of all, let me just thank you, Sophia, for understanding what it takes to pass a law. You know, you pass the law, pass the house, pass the Senate, go to the president.

It's so complicated. And I really just was so enjoying how you recognize the complexity to use your word of it all. Oh, thank you. And that really goes right to the members and their knowledge, their strategy, their courage. Courage is the important word here. Because for me, representing San Francisco, many of these votes are very easy. For them, not so. and because also the Republican misrepresentations in their districts

make it even more challenging. They don't carry much weight in my district. So thank you for recognizing what it takes and what its purpose is. In the 60s, I was having babies. I had four babies in like four years in the 60s. My husband and I've had five children in six years and seven. days. In New York, I had four of these babies in Manhattan. Four of them were born in Manhattan. So my political involvement was only pushing strollers and handing out leaflets or going door

to door at Halloween. In the apartment buildings in New York, they didn't allow pamphleting, you know, for campaigns. But if you were going trick-or-treating with your babies and strollers, then you could double duty. So that was really very very, very, very, very, you were going to trick-treating. basic. It wasn't until I was in California. My children were in school all day that I thought, no, I can take on the world now.

I've taken care of five children, six years and seven days. So that's really when I, as a mother of five, seeing that one in five children in America were going to sleep hungry at night living in poverty. It was just my why. I went from housewife to house member

to house speaker. And that's a different path, but it stemmed from my being born into a political family. My father was in Congress when I was born. He was mayor of Baltimore when I was in first grade, and he was mayor of Baltimore when I was in freshman year in college. So that's the life I led, and then my brother would become mayor of Baltimore. So I was never interested in running for office, but I was interested in public service. I almost, I wonder, too, the, you know, the environment you grew up in it, it sounds like you were sort of steeped in it, you know, the, the water a tea bag goes into

is what it is made in. And I think about how around your table you must have just had that kind of privilege of exposure to exactly the kind of complex thought we're talking about. You know, how do you solve a problem for a community? How do you get a budget pass that works? How do we get food into the hands of hungry children and families? And how do you make sure people have access to health care, when you kind of came into your own knowing that you were going to have a political future, did you go, oh, yeah, I guess this was kind of inevitable, given the dinner table conversation in my house? Well, I was a little girl, and I was really a 50s teenager, Elvis Presley, rock around the

clock, the whole thing. So I wasn't into heavy duty, into policy, except I knew the difference between a Democrat and a Republican, even then. You mean the difference between right and wrong? Well, even then, though, we didn't, we had friendships across the aisle. It wasn't that way. My friends that I went out with and stuff were some children of Republican leaders in the community as well. And some friends for a long time after that.

But no, what I did know was that we were Catholic, you know, I was Italian-American neighborhood, little Italy in Baltimore. So we were deeply Catholic, proud of our Italian-American heritage, fiercely patriotic Americans, and staunchly democratic. And we saw the connection between our gospel of Matthew when I was hungry, you fed me, when I was homeless you sheltered me, with the democratic agenda, Separating church and state, but motivated with our basic values and a vision that was for the people, for their children. And so it was more a broader value space than it was specifically.

And actually, when we closed the door in the evening, it was mom and dad. It wasn't so much politics. It was mom and dad. My father was mayor all those years. And in those days, the mayor always went out at night and spoke at events in black time, in black time. Wow. So we'd come home, have dinner with us, put on his black tie, and then go make the mayor's rounds. It was a different world about the formality of politics in those days.

That's so interesting. So when you move to California and, you know, you began, as you said, your volunteer work, I love that it started with figuring out how to solve a problem. You know, that's that sort of problem solving that I think women are particularly adept at. You're like, well, we're just going to do this during Halloween men. Here we go. Make sure people know what's accessible to them. When you fast forward from that time, I look at the scope of your career and think about the things you've been so integral to creating in our country.

You know, you really have been an architect of generation defining legislation, whether it was the Affordable Care Act and all of the folks, you know, even like me, born with asthma, I would have been uninsurable, perhaps, had it not been for the work that you did, all the way through to the American Rescue Plan to not only rescue the nation, but create such a profound saving of the American economy that we actually stabilize the global economy. what has it felt like for you to begin to learn, as we talked about at the beginning, about the complexity of legislation? And then now, from this vantage point, look back at not just everything you've been a part of, but those massive, massive passages of legislation that have changed and bettered and protected America, is it almost sort of surreal when you just realized, like, hey, I started passing flyers out on Halloween, and here I am. No, well, the thing is, is that I accept every compliment, and I appreciate what you're saying. But it wasn't about me.

It was about our caucus, our committee chairs, the members. They all brought their ideas. And so this is about imagination. It's about integrity. It's about just idealism. And I always say the House Democrats are the greatest collection. I say to them when I speak to them under the ceiling of this room. sits, the greatest collection of idealism, imagination, and integrity than any organization

you can name. So they all brought their brand to it in terms of how they saw things chronologically and how quickly and prioritizing and the rest. So I was very fortunate to be chosen by them to lead them in all of this. But again, it was about them. And it's about respect for the different points of view, so that we wanted the product to be sustainable, that it would not not only pass, but it would survive. Yes. That's really beautiful. And now for our sponsors. And you know, it makes me think a lot about what you said about the way you grew up. You know, your upbringing really mirrors my own moms, you know, small East Coast Italian Catholic family, you know, outer boroughs of New York. And when you talk about everyone bringing their ideas to the table,

this is something I talk to my parents a lot about because identity politics has shifted. You know, we used to argue about the best use of, you know, fiscal policy or what policies would help the most people. And now we're arguing, you know, ideology, it seems. And a lot of what I feel met with, at least from the other side of the aisle, is that people like me or people I care about don't deserve to exist at the same American fullness as people like them. And I imagine that dealing with that is incredibly difficult. But I also know what you're talking about in terms of how all of those idealists and idea people within our own party have to come together. Not everybody who sits in the Democratic Party believes the same things. We have to debate

issues and usage and budgets and things. So I guess what I'm curious about is particularly, you know, since 2006 when you made history again, being the first woman ever elected speaker of the House, how have you organized our party? How have you reminded people that our idealism will only be mobilized if we can figure out how to pragmatically chip away at problems? It's a both and equation, how do you kind of whip us all into shape to then go out and pitch our ideas to the other side? Well, you described it very well. We have, I would not even want to be the leader of a party that was a lockstep Republican party that just takes orders from above. Our consensus springs from our membership. And the fact is, is that I,

I'm always saying our diversity is our strength. Our unity is our power. You want to make a difference in people's lives. You have to win. You have to win the election and you have to win the vote. So while we have differing, I've been shut down in my own suggestions because they just were just not going to make the grade. They weren't part of the message that would win.

So when I can say I was turned down, you're turned down now. And it's a kaleidoscope. I say two things. I say, in the book I say it's a kaleidoscope. And one collection of colors, you have a beautiful design. You turn the dial. Others come in. Others go out.

And that's what legislating is about too. So I say members recognize that while they may not be part of this design, tomorrow is another day and their design may be the one that prevailed. So we have to always respect each other, not weaken each other, because we're all going to be part of the design one day

at a time. That can be so difficult, though. The patience and the pragmatism it's certainly those are really, I believe, the most valuable lessons I've learned as a volunteer and essentially a citizen journalist

and someone who's been so fortunate to to learn from you and other people in our party, you know, people will ask me why as a storyteller, as an entertainer. I choose to be politically engaged. And I say, my job is what I do for me as an individual. My political activism is my calling for us as a community. And learning how to balance your absolute creative, idealist joy for your community with reality can be hard. And what it makes me think about is really what I believe to be the ethos of your book.

You don't talk about the exercising of power. You know, you didn't write a book called power. You wrote a book called The Art of Power. And you speak so beautifully about how you have to work to find common ground. You have to know when to stand your ground. And you, to me anyway, seem to be an. expert at subtle power because you know what you can activate but you also are always willing to listen to people you don't use your power like a bully you you use it like a leader and i'm very

curious when you think about these 37 years that you have been exercising your political power are there certain moments that stand out as your sort of key moments of of joy and success Or was the idea behind the book to say, oh, there's really a lot of little things we need to talk about to hopefully inspire the next generation of leaders? Well, I love hearing your motivation, both professionally and community-wise. It's so lovely to hear and so encouraging. There's so many people in our country are so good. We have to respect them and how they vote. We respect them.

There are some who are not. They are anti-woman. They're anti-L-W-DQ. They're anti-NewKew, they're anti-people of color. They're anti-women having the right to choose. You know, I respect that point of view. I come from an Italian Catholic family. They're not all where I am on this issue.

But they're not, shall we say, leading parades in that regard. And taking it out politically on someone. So we have some cultural things. guns, gays, guys, the three Gs, guns, gays, God. They equate God with terminating a pregnancy, but nonetheless, that's what they do. So we have to recognize the people are just negative, period, we'll never get them. Any excuse we'll do for them to be against the Democrats because we are beautifully diverse and represent the future and they don't.

then we have the big money that doesn't want to pay taxes. They don't want regulation. They don't want protection of the environment. When they say regulation, we say protections, protections, and that's the debate as to what it is and for how long and the rest of that. But they don't want any. No regulation and no taxes.

And so they supply. I mean, in the last election, I think it was eight families put $100 million in against us eight. So that's, they supply the money. There aren't many of them in terms of votes, but it is a lot of money to suffocate the airwaves. Suffocate the airwaves.

So people get confused and they say, well, I don't know. I don't know what this is. I'm not voting. But then there are legitimate people who vote with them who are concerned. They're concerned about immigration. It isn't really taking their jobs away, except a few, maybe some. but not money. They're concerned about globalization.

They've seen the factory down the road move offshore. That's a legitimate concern about jobs. They are clearings about innovation. I'm a truck driver. Now they're going to have driverless trucks. That's a legitimate concern. And Joe Biden, with the legislation that we passed under his leadership, always wanted to be, what does this mean to the worker?

And so it's always about the future, and the future that they see for themselves and their families to go forward. And that's who we're trying to, we want them to vote with us, but we more importantly want them to feel a comfort level about the future and don't think it's a we and they thing. We're all in this together. Yes. Well, and certainly one of the things that I've had a good fortune to learn from you all,

you know, I think back to signing up to volunteer for my first campaign in 2007, I can't believe how long it's been. And something I'm really struck by is, you know, a lot of what you are bringing up, you know, these, these, um, erosions of our protections for our air, our water, jobs moving offshore. A lot of that happens to preserve the ultra wealthy class, the billionaire class. You know, you've seen the wealth in that space go from the hundreds of millions into the trillions of dollars. Wealth is being moved and stolen from workers. And I, I, I I want to thank you for the work you've done to make sure that the chips program launched and we're bringing home American manufacturing to fight back against big polluters. You know, if you're drinking poisonous water, whoever's poisoning your water doesn't care how you voted. They just care that they don't have to clean it up. And, you know, it isn't lost on me that since Chevron was overturned by the Supreme Court,

which I believe to be a horrific miscarriage of justice for us and our children and our children's children. You know, we've seen the U.S. Air Force refused to comply with an EPA cleanup order because the Air Force polluted drinking water sources in Tucson, Arizona. And they were supposed to clean it up. And then Chevron got overturned. And they said, we don't have to spend the money to do that. And I went, wow, look at this. What it feels like as a civilian is we're eating our own. And I guess I wonder, you know, how you would tell us to fight back against. things like this. You know, a lot of us feel helpless in the face of who Donald Trump appointed to the Supreme Court and the miscarriages of justice we're seeing and the lack of

ethics and the bribes and the things. So from your position, you're not a Supreme Court justice, but you are, you know, our incredible Nancy Pelosi. How do you tell those of us coming behind you that are inspired by your leadership to push back? Where do you think it's best for us to try to exercise our power or volunteer our time right now? Is it election first and then issues come November 6th? Yes, well, winning the election is essential to it all. And I think that you spelled it out very beautifully. The greed, the greed of the very wealthy.

And I don't paint them all with the same brush. But enough of them just say they don't want clean up the water. How could it be? But nonetheless, here's the thing, there is one bill that broke my heart that we could not get it passed, but I shouldn't say broke my heart and I didn't realize we couldn't get it because of the 60 vote requirement in the Senate. So this bill is our For the People bill. It's first 300 pages of it were written by John Lewis. And then that Voting Rights Act, which is a companion, they go together, is named for John Lewis.

Yes. I had the privilege of serving with him for over 30 years. But in any event, this legislation would say to the public, you are as important as anybody. Because what we're saying here is we're going to stop voter suppression and election nullification, turning back what you voted for. We're going to change that's John Lewis language. We're going to stop big, dark money from suffocating the airwaves.

big dark money by making them disclose so that people know. They have the right to give because the court, in my view, foolishly and wrongly decided that corporations were people and they could give as much money as they want. Well, people can't, but corporations can. And that's the Citizens United decision, right? The Citizens United decision, but it's very hard to, it's a constitutional change that is required. And so people say, well, it's too hard to change the cause it. but it isn't too hard to mobilize, to mobilize, to say to people, this is why we have to address this with disclosure and the rest.

That's the only thing the court allowed is. It also doesn't have a partisan redistricting and gets rid of that. Because all the things that people think that their voice is deterred in some way, silenced or lessened. And so we're saying this is for the people, we must pass this law to democratize democracy. to make it be what it's supposed to be, a free and fair election, not dominated by big, dark money or predicated on redistricting that is unfair and the rest. So that would make the biggest difference.

In addition to that, when we win the elect, to your point of should we win, yes, win, we have to change the filibuster law in the United States Senate. It's ridiculous that it requires 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor. we must change that because that takes us to your next point. Policy. If we win 51 votes in the Senate

change the filibuster law, just think right away we could pass and try and road we wade into the law. We can have background checks on guns. We can have an immigration, a bipartisan immigration bill. We can stop gun violence already. Equality Act for LGBTQ community

to be treated. with equality and all that. So so many of those pieces of legislation could pass with 51 votes rather than 60, and that's majority rule. So this is within sight, and it is within distance. All we have to do is win the election, when the White House, when the Senate, hold the Senate, just hold the Senate, and then take back the House. And we can do this for the people, because they have cynicism.

about why should I even vote? What difference will it make? All the difference in the world. Vote as if your life depends on it because it really does, whether it's the air you breathe or what happens to you in the size and timing of your family

and the rest. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. I really do want to echo because there will be people who say, you know, it's like when your mom tells you you're pretty and you go, you have to say that, you're my mom.

There will be people who will hear you talk about how consequential the vote is and say, well, of course you think it's consequential. You know, you're Congresswoman Pelosi. You're the Speaker of the House. That's your world. But as a sort of civilian who has a calling of one foot in this world and one foot in my day job,

I want to say to our listeners, you know, it is that important because we've seen the ramifications of losing so narrowly in 2016. I read reports of women who've lost their fallopian tubes and their future as the moms they want to be because a doctor would not end an ectopic pregnancy that risked her life. Women have died of sepsis. We have seen families separated permanently at the border. By the Trump administration, we have seen absolute horror.

you know, and corruption take over our court. And then you see the flip side. You see the Biden-Harris administration, our party passing a $35 cap on insulin. I read the story of a young man who was at the convention with us. He's in college and he said, you know, I got active because I have diabetes and so does my mom. And the fact that I know we'll be able to afford our medication forever and that every Republican voted against that, that's what got me inspired to be here. And I thought, look at you, you sweet 20-year-old.

boy, come with us. Like, we're ready to go. And these aren't arguments about policy. These are arguments about, as you said, democracy for all. You know, there are enough rights to go around for everyone. And when you bring up something like the Equality Act and thank you, folks will say, well, there's laws. You can't underpay women or you have to treat people equally. That's what the Supreme Court said. People don't realize that that's not actually true. That it took us 38 years to ratify the ERA and then a Congress we didn't control said it had taken too long and they didn't care to write it into the Constitution. So that affects the 51% of us that are women in the world. They don't realize that if my partner and I, for example, drove from New York to come

visit you, say, in San Francisco, depending on what state we were in the car in together, we would have different civil rights. That is terrifying as an American. And so we really are here, or friends at home, advocating to make sure, yes, you can live the way you want to live, you can believe what you want to believe, you can operate out of faith or science or whatever is your highest calling. But what you cannot do is legislate cruelty or inequity on others based on your personal belief. The law must be separate and it must be the highest and greatest good for us. So that's the big policy thing. And here I am soapboxing for anyone at home who says, I'm not political. Please be political. Please come join us. But to get back to the personal,

as you said, when you look back at these last 37 years, do you have like a greatest hits list for Nancy Pelosi? Is there an album of things that you look at and go, God, those five things we got done or that law in that year, what comes to mind immediately for you as your pride and joy as a legislator? Well, thank you so much for her kind words, but also. also for your activism and you're putting into personal terms what it means to have different respect for people's rights around the country. And people don't realize that. I went to Congress.

So I'll just start with a few. I first went there first day. I was in a special election because the Congresswoman's Saliburton had passed away and wanted me to run in a seat. So I did, and I won, which wasn't a foregone conclusion. But nonetheless, when I was there, the members were saying to me, when you get sworn in, don't say anything

because nobody wants to hear from a new member of Congress. So I said, oh, God, it's okay with me. So when the speaker swears you in, you just say, yes, I support and depend on the Constitution. Then the speaker said to me, does the gentle lady from California wish to address the house? That's how they talk, gentlelady from California.

So, of course, I'm going to address that. Yeah. So I get up there, and these people are like, be short, be short, just be short. And so I got up very briefly, said, I'm here. I thank my parents who were there, my father on the floor of the house, because he had been a former member. He could be on the floor of the house. My family, I thank my constituents.

And then I said, I told my constituents that when I came here, I would tell you that Sala sent me, to fight against HIV and AIDS. Boom. That's the end. Now it took like a minute. I even took longer to say some other thing. Just took a like a minute.

So I come down thinking, that was as short as it could be. Oh, long faces. So what's the matter with you? Why would you tell people that the first thing they know about you is you came here to fight against HIV and AIDS? I said, because I did. I did. When we were, this was 87.

we were going to two funerals a day, much less than a week. Yeah, me too. So I did. But see, in San Francisco, we knew about prevention, we knew about care, we knew about research for cure, all that stuff. But I didn't know about discrimination. And just to see that. Now, not that they were discriminating. They just thought the others would.

And so that was a fight. So they knew what the backlash would be. it would be. So we bought and fought. We got the money. The AIDS issue was very big for me in Congress. And to see the success, and we did Ryan White Care, Henry Waxman from California was very important and all that. But it contained our San Francisco community-based, community-based care, community-based, research, community-based prevention. We had some of the greatest intellectual resources here in San Francisco. And then, and so that became a thing. So throughout, So another part of that in terms of discrimination was to repeal don't ask, don't tell.

Of course, the biggest issue for me was the passing of the Affordable Carrick, but in terms of continuation of legislation. So the last bill that I signed and rolled as speaker, one of the last bills I was ending my speakership the first time, the first two terms ending them, was. the repeal of don't ask, don't tell. Now, this is an example of the kaleidoscope and the rest. We finally got the votes in order to pass an amendment to repeal, don't ask, don't tell.

It was a triumph. It was such a big deal. Now, this is on the National Defense Authorization Bill. It's a defense bill, the defense bill. So the members are so jubilant, and I said, it's so exciting. Yes, we made history today. And I said, yes, we made history today. And you're going to make history twice. Why do you say that? I said, well, you voted for the amendment and that passed. But in order for the amendment to prevail, the bill has to pass. So you're going to vote for the first time, make history, voting for a defense bill. No, you can't ask us to do that. You cannot ask us to do that. I said, you don't have an amendment unless you have a bill.

you're going to have to vote for the defense bill. No, don't ask us, we won't do it, this or that. The Republicans always vote for the defense bill. They come here to do two things. Cut taxes for the rich and vote for the defense bill. They're going to vote for it. I said, you need to vote for the bill. What makes you say that?

I said, I'm a speaker. I know what's going on here. I can see it in their eyes. They ain't going to vote for the defense bill. Oh, this is too much to ask. We all have plaques and trophies and all being... 100% against the defense bill. So do me a favor, go to the back of the room and just wait and watch and see what happens.

So to go to the back of the room, nine Republicans voted for the defense bill, which means like 180 or something, voted against it because of that. Don't ask, don't tell, repeal. And it was heartbreaking. Nine voted for it. So right down the aisle, Barney Frank, Barbara Lee, Dennis Cucinage, John Lewis, And as you, you name it, the whole 100% crowd going to vote for the defense bill. Congratulations.

You made history twice today. Incredible. But they did something they didn't think they would have to do. We had to do the machinations. Barney Frank was very instrumental in doing that with the Senate so that it became law. Harry Reid was very helpful. Oh, that's amazing. I had the loveliest moment with Senator Schumer at the DNC.

he came to offer some very kind words about my life, not even work, and told me about how he became so pro equality and wanted to fight for laws like the ones you're talking about because of his friendship with Barney Frank. And how, you know, seeing when he came out, his whole life got better and everything changed. And he said, you know, I got to fight alongside my friend. And then all these years later,

when my daughter told me she'd fallen in love with this wonderful woman, And I realized that my friends had made me a better father. Nice. Beautiful. Makes me want to sob. Allison, his beautiful daughter, Allison is too. When I think about you all fighting together, that I believe is the beauty of the ethos of a party rooted in equity because your fight is not John Lewis's fight,

but you know what it's like to be discriminated against as a woman. And he can talk to you about what it's like to be discriminated against. as a black man. And Senator Schumer learned what Barney Frank was going through as a gay man. And I start to think about how when you say we all come together with our ideals and our diversity is our strength, what it means is in our successes, in our failures, in our hardships, the more of us there are in the room making decisions, the more people can say, hey, don't forget this. This could be a spot where you might not know to shine a light if you didn't know there was darkness there. We can solve for more people with diversity of thoughts and experience.

And when you win, I win. And when John Lewis was winning, we were all winning. I guess I'm curious because you've been such a part of so many of these moments of history. And when we talk about John Lewis, God rest his soul, are there things about him or those early days or even about you that you think people maybe don't know but should? and it could be, I don't know, your favorite coffee order or when you guys really got into it over how to get something across the line like you did with Don't Ask, Don't Tell, you know?

Are there things we don't know that you want to make sure we do know about your friends? As you mentioned, Barney, is such an important way. When we were passing, trying to pass the hate crimes bill, we wanted to be all-inclusive. Now, this was in the first term, so this is like, one, years ago. It was like 0-7-08 in that period of time.

And Barney told his personal story, and that meant a lot to the members. It was very cheerful for us, but he told him personalized as a young boy. In addition, because inside mobilizing maneuvering is very important, the outside mobilization, which is essential to any success, was led by Matthew Shepard's mother. She came with her husband. She brought with her the sheriff from the county. Oh, my God. It was so, so sad.

And the sheriff said, I'm the sheriff that you have worried about. After what I saw that happened to Matthew Shepard, I'm going around campaigning for this hate crimes bill. And she was wonderful. But we couldn't pass it. It was not passing. And so they came to me and said, if you take out trans, it was inclusive.

If you take out trans, you can pass it in a minute. And I said back to them, if we take out trans, we ain't passing it in 100 years because we're not even bringing it up. It's coming in together. And that's the way it is. And that's the way we passed it. But you have to always try to,

while you want to compromise or something, you cannot diminish the strength of why you are there. They were probably the group that needed the most hate crimes legislation. And so that was another time. So we did hate crimes and then we did repeal of don't ask, don't tell. And then we did marriage equality. Even though the court did it, we wanted to legislate it so that it is in the law. And of course, all of the work.

on HIV AIDS, but it started with that now the unfinished business is the Equality Act. This takes me to John Lewis. The Equality Act, in order for the Equality Act to pass, we had to open up the civil rights bill and inject the Equality Act in there. The Black Hawk is very proprietary

about the Civil Rights Act because of some of the strange people that were roaming the halls of Congress at that time as members, what they would try to do. Because with their 2025, for example, forget all these things that are in there. But in any event, the process that we had to go through is to make sure that we were not menacing the Black Caucus and what we were trying to do to expand the rights there. Our champion became John Lewis again.

Oh, and it became. Once again. Yeah. He said, we are long over. overdue in doing this, and I'm going to be a sponsor of this bill, took, we went to the press conference, took the lead in announcing this, and it was a big deal because the Black Caucus was, we don't want it, we're all for that, but why do we have to open up the bill to do it?

John Lewis just said, we're long overdue, we're going to do that, and he led the way. Bless his heart. He was incredible. I mean, what a man. Was the fear, I just want to make sure I understand, was the fear in opening up the civil rights bill, that opening it up to add more inclusion and protection for other people might actually put the bill itself at risk? Well, it might be they would come along with something. Start a fight about why this.

If you read 2025, so many of the... Project 2025. Project 2025. If you read that, many of the protections that we have for people are by-bye. It's a terrible vicious, vicious document, and that's why what's his name is trying to distance himself from, but it's his people who wrote it. It's their document and the rest. But again, John Lewis, our hero and wonderful. He also walked with me when we were going to pass the bill, and he got spat upon, people screamed at us as we were walking from the office building to the Capitol.

we had the gavel that had been used to gavel in Medicare by John Dingell's father and he had that gavel and then we were going and John said that day the viciousness of the people who were screaming at us for passing this bill spat upon and he said he it was he hadn't seen anything like that since Selma in 1960s of course he said it was just horrible and John Lewis I mean they were horrible to me, as you can imagine, but they always are. But John Lewis's reverential figure to say, I hadn't seen anything like that since the 60s. You know, it's interesting to me when you bring that up, what John Lewis went through the work he did with Dr. King and

LBJ in getting the Civil Rights Act passed and getting the Voting Rights Act passed. I was so lucky on Tuesday to be at the White House in room 180 and get to look at some of those original photographs. And I was just so moved thinking about these lifetimes of advocacy. And I know the pushback he received as a black man building a more equal America. I certainly know the pushback you receive as a woman striving to build a more equal America. People hate political opinionated women. I deal with it on the internet every day. I'm very grateful to your persistence. And I guess I'm curious when you look out at the landscape, you know, both all of the history you've been a part of and in the work you're continuing to do,

is part of your hope with the book? Because it's so good. I mean, my goodness, I've been asking you all these policy questions. We've barely even touched on it. And your time is almost up. The book is just so great. But obviously, our audience will go and read it. Was the hope that you could, despite what people have seen out in the world, what happened to you on January 6th, you know, this new footage that your daughter took when you're asking questions about where's the National Guard and trying to safeguard democracy,

you know, what horrifically happened to your family in 2022 when your husband was attacked, there's a lot that could keep motivated people out when they see what you risk. So is the goal of the book also to remind people that yes, there is a risk, but there is so much reward. And here is perhaps how you can exercise subtle and inclusive power to create that reward for yourself and the world around you.

Is that what you hope to leave the readers with? Well, I hope so because there's nothing more wholesome for the political or governmental process than the increased participation of women. I firmly believe that. When I went to Congress, there were 23 women, 12 Democrats, 11 Republicans. We made a decision. Some of us who, I came from the political arena

from being chair of the California Democratic Party that we were going to increase that number. We now have 94 Democratic women versus 12. They have 30-something versus 11, but we still want more. But it's really very essential. It doesn't mean women are better than men. It just means you need the diversity at the table.

You need the diversity at the table. And that diversity goes beyond male-female. It's about ethnicity and gender identity and the rest of that. We need more at the table. So what I was hoping to say to people is quoting a Republican president, Teddy Roosevelt, when he talked about the arena speech, which is one of the great speeches. Everybody should read it and know it. He said, you're not a spectator anymore.

This is that you're in the arena. And I say to the women who say to me, well, I'd like to be in the arena, but I can't handle the abuse that you take. See, I didn't care. I just didn't care. I was just there for the children. I didn't care what they said about me. I wasn't seeking higher office.

I didn't want an appointment to this or that. I just wanted to work in the house to get the job done. I said, no, but you go in the arena. You have to be ready to take a punch. And you have to be ready to throw a punch for the children, for the children. And it's worth it. if you know your why. My why was for the children.

So I didn't care what they said was always about that and what the legislation would do or what certain people, were they a resource for their children or not? Because the children are everything. It's their health, their education, the economic security of their families, the clean, safe neighborhoods

where they can thrive, including safety from gun violence, a world peace in which they could survive. Everything is about the children. It's all about the vision of our families, founders about our democracy, the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform to protect our freedoms and our country and the aspirations of our children. They all come together. And the election, all of it is at risk. All of it is at risk. That's a beautiful way to look at it. And now a word

from our wonderful sponsors. Something that I've thought a lot about, because you said something so kind to me when I was in a panic about the fascist takeover of our White House in 2016. And I saw you at the time 100 event in New York. And you grabbed me by the hand, and I said, Nancy, what are we going to do? And you said, sweetheart, everything will be better when you're a president. And I joked it, I joked at your farewell in D.C. with all the reproductive rights groups. I said, I bet you say that to all the girls. You want to encourage us all to run for office.

but I do think so much about the fact that you first were elected to Congress at 47. You were a mom of five. You know, I'm now 42. People ask me, are you going to run? I don't have an answer. I don't know. I know I want to dedicate my life to our community. But I guess I would ask you, what is your advice for someone who worries?

Maybe it's too late. Or maybe I don't know enough for women out there who wonder if, they could do what you've done and maybe don't know that you were 47 when you started. Do you have any advice for us? Well, I would say this. Know your power. That's the title of my first book. Know your power. Know the power of you. You have something unique and authentic to bring to the table. No matter what that is, whether it's your professional experience, your education, your upbringing, whatever it is. And in my case, even being a mom of five kids and six years and seven days, that just take inventory of your motivation and your knowledge.

And as I say to them, know your why, know why you want to do this, know what you're talking about. You don't have to know everything, but if you have a subject, whether it's climate or whether it's education or whether it's justice or democracy, whatever it is, it's not going to be confined to one issue, but whatever kind of is your passion, know about it. so that people respect your judgment. You won't know it all because it changes. You want to be current as you go along. And then know your strategy about how you would bring people together. See somebody else who shares your view and you want to support her. She wants to support you and this or that.

Again, vision, knowledge and judgment, strategy. But most important, show people what is in your heart. That empathy, that concern for the community. That is your authenticity. And people love sincerity, authenticity. They really do, especially young people. They can tell real from not real just like that. But understand that was what you have to bring,

but what you offer is something so great because the country needs to have you at the table and hopefully at the head of the table. The thing I also say to them is, know your why, again, know your power, and be ready. Because you don't know when the opportunity. I had no idea that I would ever run for. I didn't even have an interest in running for public office.

None, zero. And then all of a sudden they were like, you have to run, you have to run. I'm like, why did you come to me? I never expressed an interest. No, you have to run. And then same thing for leadership. You have to run for leadership. You have to run for leadership.

And so I did. And so to these women. know your wife, know your power, be ready, because you don't know when it might come. It is an appointment or election or whatever it might be and know how important it is. And I always say this prayer of African Presbyterian bishop put on a wall and see her alone in a hospital and said, one day I go to reach, I die, and I happily go to reach my maker, my creator, he will say to me, show me your wounds. And if I have no wounds, he will say was nothing worth fighting for.

So I'm proud of my wounds, and I don't even consider them wounds. I consider them badges of honor, but nonetheless, it's rough. It's not for the faint of heart. It's tough, but it's very worth it, and it's absolutely essential to the success of our country. More women in power. Now we're going to have, you know, I've been described as a most powerful woman in the United States, and I am so excited that in just a few weeks I'll have a woman president of the United States.

How does that feel? It's emotional for me, but it's not, and as I said, when I ran, don't vote for me because I'm a woman, but don't vote against me because I'm a woman. She should win, not because she's a woman, but because she's the best. She's the best.

And that's what it's going to, it's going to be so exciting for our country and for the world, the global medicine. message it will send. Kamala Harris, president of the United States. As you sit here and look at this history, this beautiful book, what's coming up, what feels in your life, not even necessarily about work, but just for you, Nancy, what feels like your work in progress right now? Well, again, it's always about family. So first and foremost, about family and about children and grandchildren and the rest. And I would say that when you have

children, it's, um, you think you can take care of them. You know, you're going to make sure life is great for them. But when you have grandchildren, these grandchildren, we have a grandchild that was not quite a year old, who will live into the next century. Yeah. I live into the next century. And I say that to my friends who have little children, even, even if they're 20 years old, they may live into the next century, the grandchildren. And so we have to make sure that for the children, the planet, the society, the fairness of the justice, all of it, that what our vision of our founders is such that it is there for a great future for our children. And elections are about the future.

So this one is particularly important. Just win, baby. Particularly meaningful for us. Just win baby. Let's go win this. Let's go win this, baby. Thank you so, so much. Thank you.

I cherish the fact that I get to know you, let alone interview you. Thank you. This has really been a treat. My pleasure, my honor. Thank you, Sophia. Podcasts.