Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Secretary Jennifer Granholm

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

Clean energy should be a no-brainer, yet it feels stuck in political drama and doubt!  U.S. Secretary of Energy Jennifer M. Granholm joins Sophia to help clarify the confusion on clean energy, including why it's going to bring millions of high-paying jobs, the tax incentives and credits available, and the President's goals of getting America to 100 percent clean electricity by 2035 and net zero carbon emissions in less than thirty years!  Plus, the former governor of Michigan shares her political journey, revealing that she initially thought her husband would run for office instead of her! She reveals what happened to change her career path. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, Wipsmarties. Today's guest is someone I am so honored to have on the podcast. Secretary Jennifer Granholm is with us today. She is an incredible leader and politician. She serves as the 16th United States Secretary of Energy.

She is a member of the Democratic Party and previously served as the Attorney General of Michigan. Big love for Detroit, as always. Secretary Granholm was a member of the presidential transition team back for President Barack Obama before he assumed office in 2009. And after leaving public office, she took a position at UC Berkeley. authored a book called A Governor's Story, The Fight for Jobs in America's Future, with her husband, Daniel Mulhern. She became the host of the war room

with Jennifer Granholm in 2017, was a CNN political contributor, and after President-elect Joe Biden announced his intention to nominate Granholm to head the United States Department of Energy in 2020, she was confirmed by the U.S. Senate in 2021. This woman is so incredibly accomplished, so unbelievably smart,

and she is going to walk us through some of the incredible things that our president is doing for America in terms of energy, getting us to a green energy future, and all of the incredible innovation that is taking place along the way. I cannot wait for you to hear from her. Let's get to it. I'm just so happy to see you today, Secretary Granholm. It's a wild thing to join you on Zoom and think about how long we've known each other now. And as you know, I'm just your biggest fan. And I really appreciate you for taking the time today. Oh, my gosh.

Well, that is such a nice thing for you to say. And it's such a nice thing for us to be able to have a conversation that hopefully opens up some windows to the folks who follow you and gets them excited about, you know, the planet and climate and our clean energy future and the president, all of that. Yes. I mean, and you have been so hard at work in this world. I mean, my gosh, I was going to say in the state and then the country, you know, there's a million words bouncing around in my head because you really have focused on,

you know, climate and energy and democracy and, you know, ways to make the country a better place. But if we rewind, you know, back to before the beginning of your political career, you know, before you were out trying to make sure that we have, you know, great energy and great jobs in the future, when you were just a little kid, were you into the idea of public service? Did you know you wanted to hold, you know, office someday? Or, or, you know, Or did you have a totally different idea? Definitely not that. And for your listeners, I was governor of Michigan, so that's why you asked this question.

Yes. And elected as Attorney General, too. But I did not at all think that I was going to be running for office. But I did feel like, you know, and my parents, same thing. They are, they felt their immigrants. I'm an immigrant from Canada. and they felt so, my dad in particular, felt so lucky to be in this country and they came to the country to make their way and they felt like you go to this country, you've got to give

back and you've got to participate and, you know, you have a duty, right? And so I didn't know what form that was going to take. That was definitely in my head is that, you know, somehow. And it also just became so consuming for me to be able to follow politics. and to imagine that I could help somebody get elected or I could help a cause. So I was young, it was really my parents who gave me this notion that you're here, you should be grateful, and you should act beyond self. I love that. That is something that I think my parents really instilled in me as well. And part of me is wondering, talking to you if it's because, you know,

we've got the Canadian portion of my family. Those Canadians, they're so, But they, I mean, who knows, you can't generalize about a country. This is true with so many people here, too. But I feel grateful to have had that infusion of knowing that we are here to put, you know, to leave this campsite cleaner than we found it. I love that. Well, I think there's something really powerful. You know, my dad came down with a lot of his family from Canada.

And my mom's family came over from Italy. But I think wherever you come from, when you have that history of immigration in your family, the passion for the pursuit of the American dream is big. Yeah, it's so real. It is so real. It's just such a sense of gratitude to be in this great nation where you can be, you know, where leaders are not born of kings, but they are born of just common people who decided that they too are going to make a better situation.

You know, for me, I didn't see myself as putting myself out front like that. I was, you know, I married this great guy. He's from Michigan. And Michigan after law school. And I thought he was going to run for office. He kind of thought he was going to for office too. And, you know, but we worked in school politics. and we worked in, you know, politics at the county level, et cetera, at the state level.

But when I was working behind the scenes, and then, you know, I had been, I was, I had been a federal prosecutor. I had worked at, you know, in courts. And the Democratic Party in my case came to me and said, do you want to run for, will you run for attorney general? And at that point, I was like, what me no way and I had just two little kids and my husband I talked about it on the we drove to Chicago from Detroit and on the drive you know he was like come on I got the kids this is you know the door only opens once you got to do what you got to do it and that honestly I would never have done it if I didn't have such a great partner such a great incredibly useless partner so all of that being said I feel fortunate to have had

the journey I've had and certainly feel fortunate to be where I am today to have an impact with our team here on one of the biggest existential problems that we face. Well, for our listeners who don't know, can you explain your work and some of your primary initiatives as the Secretary of Energy? Yeah, so the President has a couple of big, hairy, audacious goals with respect to energy. We love those. The first one is to get to 100% clean electricity, meaning zero carbon emitting electricity by 2035. And the second is to get to net zero, meaning we want to make sure that we are not emitting carbon, more carbon certainly, into the atmosphere by 2050.

And that is consistent. That last goal is consistent with what all of these countries who have signed onto the Paris Accords, So all these nations who also want to get to net zero by 2050 to heal our planet. It's a big, hairy, audacious goal for everyone because we are still emitting so much carbon into the atmosphere. And at the same time, we are trying to add, add, deploy, deploy, deploy as we say here, as much clean electricity as we possibly can. So get all those utility scale solar farms out there, those wind turbines.

We're really interested in the heat beneath our feet, you know, geothermal, which is clean electricity, all of the kinds of technologies. I hope we can talk about a couple of them because I think, you know, for your listeners who want to know sort of the future, a lot of it is very interesting. But that's our big goal. So I have an office of over 100,000 people in the Department of Energy. There are 17 national laboratories who are doing the research into what those next generation. technologies are and how to bring down the cost of them and what are the materials we're going to be using. We are all over the country. These 17 labs, they're huge. We employ it. It's really a science agency that I run, but we also have now this big mandate from the president's invest in America agenda

to deploy clean energy. And so both of those, we do research, we do development, we do early stage demonstration and deployment, and we do big deployment. So all of that is happening. under the Department of Energy under President Biden. Wow, that's really exciting. It's super exciting. And so energy and clean energy feels like it should really be a no-brainer. And yet, like so many things in our world seems to me and many others,

to have become so weirdly politicized as though it's a partisan issue rather than, and, you know, just a requirement for survival on this planet. How do you wade through that muck and how do you kind of help us make sense of things? Because, you know, from the outside, I see everything you guys are doing at the Department of Energy. I know that President Biden is incredibly committed to a green energy future and wants to be a good climate president. and you see people saying that, you know, we're drilling so much and leases are getting approved. And it all feels to a lay person a little confusing.

So is part of it just the fact that there's a lot of oil lobbyists who make a lot of money and don't want the transition to happen as fast? Is it that we have to be pragmatic and understand that the transition is going to take, I don't know, I'm making up numbers, but five years, eight years. Is it a little bit of both, like, how do you clue some of us who are really passionate about the issue, but a little confused as to where we stand? How do you make sense of it for us? Well, I appreciate the question because it's a thoughtful question. How do you get to the goal of net zero?

Now, note that net zero by 2050, so we have some time. we today could not just completely stop using fossil fuels. You wouldn't, I mean, for anybody... We don't have the infrastructure. We don't have the infrastructure. Okay. People don't have the vehicles, you know, we've about almost 10% of our vehicles are electric, and so they would be able to operate their vehicles,

but 90% of Americans would not be able to. So, and that's, you know, we have a responsibility to make sure that energy is working. And that's not just for transportation, but just flipping on the switch, right? So a lot of our power right now comes from natural gas. Some comes from coal. You know, a larger and larger percentage is coming from renewables, and we're trying to accelerate that. But we're not at a point where we can be 100% today.

So it's got to take time for us to build out the infrastructure and the generation to get to the big goal. And that's why you've got to continue to produce fossil fuel, while you accelerate the clean. So you have enough energy and clean to be able to fully transition, but we're unfortunately just not there yet. And I will say there's one other element

that people may not be as cognizant of, which is that we have a role, we have a place in the world that is pretty unique because we are such a big energy producer, both on fossil fuels, oil and gas. and when when Putin invaded Ukraine, for example, Russia had a huge amount of oil going on the market at that point. And when they invaded, everybody rightfully said, no, we're not going to buy any Russian oil.

That took millions of barrels off the market. And that's why you remember a year and a half ago, we saw a huge spike in prices because that supply was taken off the market. And so the president said, well, we're going to contribute to keep prices. is down for real people. Poor people are most affected by this, and he's really focused on how you bring down prices for people. At the same time as we want to accelerate this move, and we are accelerating this move toward clean. So that's sort of the, it's a managed transition, I'll say, I want to manage it as we accelerate.

Right. Well, that, that I think is a really helpful clarification, especially when, you know, listen, I wish we could snap our fingers and be in a, you know, completely green utopia tomorrow, but it does, the reality is that it takes time and it takes building infrastructure and it also takes the pragmatism to be patient. You know, we're so used to refreshing our screens on our phones. We want answers now, now, now. But when you talk about really shifting energy systems, political systems, those things take generational commitments. And I think it's really, it's helpful to remind, I know myself, and I'd imagine our friends listening

at home, that these are also matters of national security. These are also matters of geopolitical stabilization. And so you have to do what is available while trying to bring about a better future as quickly as possible. That's exactly right. I will say, though, you know, patience is not in our lexicon over here. I love that about your administration, though. Well, we really feel this sense of urgency about it. We really want to accelerate, and we're trying to figure out what are all the blockages that are there that need to be removed in order to really see this accelerate.

So, for example, we want to see a huge amount of proliferation of solar, right? But every state has different requirements for that. Every state has different permitting. Some states don't want to see a proliferation of solar. or some states don't want to see a proliferation of wind. And so there's a lot of local anxiety about that and often block blocks. And so, you know, you have to almost do everything everywhere all at once, block tackle, play offense and defense on both local policies as well as federal policies. I will say, though, honestly, the tax credits that were embedded in the Inflation

Reduction Act, which is one of the three big laws that the president got passed, to have this invest in America agenda, which will really, really is accelerating the deployment of clean. Those tax credits do an awful lot of the work themselves. So let me just give you an example. Say you want to develop a solar project that a community can use. And if you hire using prevailing wage, high wages, if you have apprenticeship programs, you get a 30% tax credit.

to be able to build that out. That's a tax credit. That's a tax deduction. That's money back, right? Off of your project. If you use American-made solar panels, that's another 10%. So now it's 40%. If you locate that project in adjacent or in a disadvantaged community, that's another 10%.

So now we're talking about a 50% tax credit off of that solar project. So those kinds of incentives that are embedded now in the law are doing a lot. are doing a lot of work to get both the private sector as well as communities really interested. But it's also generated a lot of angst among those who are really, you know, who don't like to change and who really like status quo. But change has happening, folks, not just because solar's coming online, but because we are all using so much more energy with electrification of vehicles and AI, these data centers, cryptocurrency. There's just a huge energy. suck out there, and we have got to deploy energy at a rapid, rapid speed. And that's a lot of

what keeps me up at night. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. You know, it's interesting to me because when you talk about the way that things are shifting, of course there's folks who want the status quo to remain. There's plenty of folks who make a lot money harming the planet and who know that by the time we have to reap what we sow, they'll be dead and they don't really care, which is morbid, but true. And then here you guys are talking about building out these generational programs that will certainly outlive many of us and create a better world for the people coming after us. And at the center of that, you touched on this, is the creation of really good paying clean energy.

jobs, the kinds of jobs and, to your point, projects that could transition entire communities into better health. Can you tell folks at home a little bit about what that means? Because I think sometimes people hear clean energy jobs and they go like, yeah, okay, but what? What are the jobs? What are the options? Oh my gosh. I love to say all kinds of jobs for all kinds of people. So, you know, if you are interested in advanced manufacturing and you want to help build out next generation solar cells or next generation wind turbines or next generation reconductoring material for the grid, if you want to design any of these systems, if you're interested in enhanced geothermal, if you're interested in tidal power, offshore wind, if you're interested in energy efficiency and the materials that. support the buildings around you so that you use less energy. If you're interested in batteries for electric vehicles or for storing renewable energy, if you're interested in the vehicles themselves, there are just so millions of jobs

that will be available in these future-facing industries that are good jobs. And here again, because the tax credits incentivize the payment of prevailing wage and good-paying jobs, we're seeing wages rise. I mean, these tax credits, they really are working. We've got, just in my field, I mean, they're incentivizing other kinds of, you know, they're incentivizing chip fabrication facilities, et cetera. But just in the space of clean energy, there have been over 500 factories announced since the passage of these laws that are coming to the U.S.,

or expanding in the U.S., being built in U.S., that would not have been here, but for these incentives and creating so many jobs across America in pockets all over the country. And a lot of times people worry, you know, well, how will communities that don't necessarily support clean energy or maybe that have a leg in the fossil fuel world feel about these new kind of jobs? And that's a really important question because we can't leave people. feeling in this transition that they're being left behind or that they're less than. But here's the kicker is that in this in this new energy world, the jobs, there's so many jobs that are analogous to the jobs that people are already doing. So for example, you know, there's oil and gas

industry that drill offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. They know how to get on an oil rig and drill down. Well, why not have those offshore platforms be one of the things that might be useful for offshore wind? If you do an oil rig on land, you know how the subs, you know the subsurface. You could be in a place to help pull up that geothermal heat. There's a lot of analogies in this. And so it's exciting. I mean, I have the privilege of working for the most pro-union president, that I think the country has ever seen,

and the unions and the amount of union jobs that have been created, both in constructing these facilities as well as working in them, is really inspiring to my mind. It's really exciting, and I think it's so important. You know, it's human nature to worry

that change might leave you behind, but to know that there are real, there is thought leadership around how anyone who works in a dirty energy job could transition into a clean energy job and not have to shift all that much of their life. That's important, you know, it's... 100% important. And I, you know, I mean, I think about this, and it's not just oil and gas, it's coal as well. And perhaps coal is even further ahead in that there are a lot more coal mines that have shut down because of this transition.

And there's this, in Wyrton, West Virginia, they had a big steel factory that shut down, and they have a number of old mines as well in West Virginia. And this agenda incentivizes the location of facilities and clean energy on the very places that produced the fossil energy of the past. And so we like to say that the communities that have powered our nation for the past 100 years should be communities that power our nation for the next 100 years, but with clean energy.

Exactly. And that was always, again, from the outside looking in, you know, people will say, because I like to volunteer and be involved in the political process. Well, how would you do it? And I'm like, you know, anywhere there was a coal mine is where I'd build the next. next solar plant. You know, that's, that's the goal is to help people transition to give people

safer versions of the jobs they have today, better versions, better pay. You know, that's, that's the idea, I think, behind advancement. And, you know, it's so cool to see how these rescue plans are working. You know, the whole world was upended in 2020. And I just read an article today. forgive me. I can't remember if it was in the Washington Post or the Atlantic that was talking about how when you look at global inflation and you see these bills that President Biden passed and what they did for the infusion in the economy, how they're already paying for themselves. And how in Europe, for example, they invested less and their inflation is still twice as high. And what's happening here in terms of, you know, jobs, job creation, economic bolstering. like we are making this really incredibly strong economic recovery because we've invested in our own country and in our own people. And now to know that he's, you know, not to do with energy, but now he's going after the price gouging. I'm just like, get him, Joe. Let's go. He's obsessed with prices. I'll just say, Joe from Scranton, Amtrak, Joe, he really focuses

on how, you know, what people are feeling out there. But to your point about the economy, I mean, he under since he's been elected there have been 14.8 million jobs created that is more jobs any president in any term in the history of the united states wow inflation has gone from nine percent to now three percent and they're still working on getting it lower you know wages are up uh the number of small businesses that have started again record amounts 5.5 million new business starts Never had that many before. The amount of people unemployed, it's under 4% now. That is the longest period of time under 4% in 50 years.

All of the indicators, to just jump on what you were pointed to, are extremely positive. And when you compare us to our global neighbors and allies, we have the most GDP growth of any of the advanced nations. We are doing better than any of them because go figure, policy works. Policy works. It's working, people. Yeah. Yeah. It really does. And so we just got to get to a point

where people feel it. And, you know, we may not be there yet because the steel isn't in the ground in all these places yet. But I'm telling you, with the numbers, any president would die to have these kind of economic indicators much better than anywhere, any time before. It's really, it's quite incredible. And it is, you know, it's not lost on me that for some reason it doesn't seem to get covered in the press as well as it should. It's so frustrating to sort of watch that folks go, oh, well, things are you. are going pretty well on our home soil here. We don't love that. It doesn't give us as,

you know, as much clickbait as we want. So they try to, you know, drum up some local controversy. It feels important to be frank about what would be at risk from an energy perspective for us if a Republican gets elected this year. Well, I think it is important to look at, what Congress has done and what the House has passed, what, you know, some of these think tanks are proposing if there is a shift in administrations. You know, I think that's important for people to take a look at. As we speak, you and I, I'm hatched, so I can't get into politics, pure power per se. But I think people can do homework like you have been doing and see the importance of moving forward on an agenda for the nation and for certainly for the climate.

Yeah. You know, it is the agenda that the president has. It is the most robust climate agenda, the most aggressive, the most forward-leaning that we have ever seen in our lifetimes. It is the most, as Al Gore repeatedly says, it is the most significant in the world. When I talk to my counterparts in other countries because every country has a minister of energy and we all meet regularly and talk, but they're all so envious of what the United States has done. And, you know, some of them have been a little mad because we're attracting a lot of investment and jobs. But I keep saying to them, there is so much need out there. You guys should go do it too. There is so much need

for everyone to be installing energy efficiency and clean energy in our countries that don't let us hold you back. Yes, I love that. Obviously, it can be taxing to work in politics, particularly because when you hold a position like you do, you have to be very careful about, you know, following the rules and not saying the wrong thing. Can you say a little bit about what we might expect to hear from President Biden at the State of the Union? Is that allowed? That's allowed. I mean, when I say I'm hatched, for those of you may not remember, the Hatch Act requires those of us who are in these positions to not be involved at all in partisan politics.

So we have to be careful about that. But that doesn't mean I can't trumpet what the president is doing. and what the commission is doing because that is super, super important. So, yeah, I mean, he's going to focus a lot on some of the things that we've talked about in terms of cost, to your point about cracking down on the increasing costs, junk fees, and all of that. That's, you know, he's going to talk about that. He's going to present, I think he's going to lay out the historic achievements, right,

that he has delivered on. And then his vision for the future, the fact that he has gotten more done in the first three years than most presidents have accomplished in two terms, he's going to talk about, you know, implementing this agenda from infrastructure and the Chips Act, that's the Act for chips, for computers, et cetera, and science to lowering drug prices, again, lowering costs, getting rid of junk fees. He's going to talk about whose side he's on and the work ahead for the future to make life better for every American. So, you know, giving people breathing room in terms of lowering costs, lowering health care premiums, taking on the drug companies to lower the cost of prescription drugs, making the corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes, putting the middle class first, saving our democracy, protecting women's reproductive health, the rights and the freedoms that are at stake in this very election, igniting the country. his unity, he's got a unity agenda like privacy and when you say unity, meaning people on both sides should care about ensuring privacy online, big tech, you know, curbing fentanyl, that's not partisan. Helping veterans is not partisan. Ending cancer is not partisan. So we're going to get as much done as we can, as soon as we can. We're going to put the pedal to the medal this year. And

So much more to do in a second term. And now a word from our sponsors. It's a lot. I mean, these, to your point, these are very big, audacious goals. And I think something that I have been really impressed by over the last three years is the capabilities of this administration to take on so many issues simultaneously. You know, the president seems to have done a very incredible job appointing folks such as yourself to run these enormous departments and really run with these directives to make things better and to advance us in terms of safety, technology, the economy, people's rights, you know, and I know you can't say it, but I can say it, in the face of relentless partisan attacks that are, frankly, as a citizen, exhausting to watch. I know you can't say anything again, but I can't imagine how it feels on the inside for you all to be battling this every day. But I just really want to say thank you because

the dedication must, I mean, it must require an unbelievable amount of fortitude, but we see you and we appreciate you guys. That is so nice. I can say that, you know, what fuels all of us is the work and we love our boss and we're completely committed and we love the fact that we're making impact in people's lives and there's nothing

more I mean you know we don't get paid the big salaries or anything like that but we get psychic wealth in serving and I hope you know for people that's so cool I hope folks think about it too for themselves you know is working in

public service something that might intrigue you. You know, we've got a whole climate core. For example, we're recruiting for we want people to be a part of the change. And that can mean obviously activism on the outside, but could also mean working on the inside to implement an agenda. And I really encourage people to consider that as well. Yeah.

What personally for you, what keeps you motivated? Oh, for sure. it is this agenda and an amazing team of people that I work with who are all equally, fervently committed to healing our planet and having this impact in the world. And, you know, there's something about feeling like metrics where you achieve a metric and you get to move and celebrate how much, how many more gigawatts of clean energy are on the grid. and this month or this year, how much CO2 reduction did we see? You know, I mean, things are happening out there that we get to demarcate,

and that is fuel again. But I will say, you know, there's a lot of emotional attachment to, you know, for example, we work in Puerto Rico. The president has charged the Department of Energy to lead rebuilding the Puerto Rico. grid, which has been decimated by hurricanes and thousands of people have died in Hurricane Maria, et cetera. Just really horrible situation there. But rebuilding the grid to get to 100% clean electricity. And so being able to bring solar panels to homes in Puerto Rico is so gratifying. It was just there recently. And the first, we, the Congress gave us a billion.

to be able to put on rooftop solar. It won't get everybody, but it will get the most vulnerable, the people who are medically, who need medical devices that are dependent on electricity. And for Puerto Ricans, you know, clean energy, it's nice, but really it's resiliency that is super important, that you want the ability to access energy, even when the grid goes down, and they have so much, they can do that. So putting solar and batteries on homes is super important. So we went to this one house, and the grandma,

mother was there in a wheelchair. Her daughter has cancer and her grandson has cerebral palsy and he is connected to a breathing machine. Hiney home, a poor family. When they signed up to get solar in storage, they cried, they hugged us. They said, you just don't know what this means to us. It means life to us. And those kind of moments, that kind of feeling. like, you know, really people are being impacted by the work you do. There's nothing more priceless than that. That's so incredible. And, you know, when you talk about your own family, you know, your husband encouraging

you to go for it in the beginning of your career and BDAG and, you know, the fact that your kids were little, what is it like for you now? I mean, how do you juggle, you know, your life as an individual and with your family and then this big public service job? Is it, do you always just feel like you're spinning a lot of plates or do you guys have a great, like, divide and conquer sort of mentality? Oh, we definitely are spinning a lot of plates. My kids are grown. I have children now. and I live with one of my children and her husband and my two grandchildren.

I see them when I'm able to be home before they go to bed. I see them on the weekends if I am there for a weekend, but I feel connected to them very closely. So that takes a lot of, you know, that brings a lot of joy and a lot of balance. But that, and, you know, my husband lives with us too. so we are all together, and it's fantastic. That's so neat. That's so neat.

So for those of us who are excited, who want to be more involved, maybe who are looking for more information. Are there news sources you'd point us to? Are there articles we should read? Who should we be following on social media so we can stay on top of what the administration's doing? what do we need to know? Yeah, I mean, first of all, you know, we encourage you to go to our fantastic website at energy.gov. We also, on that website, we have, you know, links to what we're doing, obviously.

You can follow, certainly me on Instagram and on X, I guess, now, and on LinkedIn. But I think that it's really important for people to seek out podcasts that they're interested, in. I listen to a lot of nerdy energy podcasts and for people who are energy nerds. There's a lot of really great ones out there, the energy gang, the Columbia Energy Exchange. You know, there's a lot of really fun and interesting podcasts if you're interested in that. But I think it's really super important for people to, you know, to get active, to get active. and ensure that your voice is heard, make sure that you are aware of so many of these issues. I mean, a lot of times energy can be, you know, there's a lot of science involved, obviously,

and for folks who may not be so inclined that there's, you know, a lot of different types of energy, whether you're talking to nuclear energy or fission or fusion and all of that. but it is so fascinating to be able to read about and be part of. And you don't have to be a scientist. So in addition to reading about it, I think people should take a look and see whether this is something they might be interested in pursuing either either inside or outside. Because it is really, you know, community organizing is a huge part of energy. Designing programs is a huge part of energy.

Intergovernmental work is a huge part of energy in addition to the research and the development of it. So both on learning about it as well as on getting involved yourself from external and potentially raising your hand to work on the inside, there's nothing more important from my perspective long term as to what's happening to us. I mean, you read a story this morning that we're not going to have ice in the oceans anymore. It's just we've got to get, I mean, our hair should be on fire because our planet is on fire. And we need people who are seriously committed to making change. We don't want people inside the department who are committed to the status quo or who are just

here to pick up a paycheck. We've got to have people who are really determined. And if folks who are listening are in that camp, we'd encourage you to apply. We encourage you to come join us. that's so exciting grateful for people like you who are you know raising the flag and using your platform to be able to get the word out i just can't thank you enough for that well thanks i mean my goodness it's it's such a cool thing for me you know as as an adult now to basically have an excuse to be my nerdiest self and ask fascinating people fascinating questions when you

when you think about the year ahead, I imagine all of these big audacious goals feel like quite a work in progress, but you guys at the administration really have a game plan. What feels like a work in progress for you? So much is a work in progress. First thing that comes to mind when you say that is one of the things that the the Invest in America agenda assigned to the Department of Energy and to the states is getting rebates in the hands of people who want to buy energy efficient appliances like heat pumps or induction stoves. And so we are working with the states because it's all going to go through

state programs, but we want the states to get that money out and to have their programs. designed so that people can access these rebates. You know, they're income dependent in most cases. But if you want to get an induction stove, you might be able to get hundreds, if not even more, off of an induction stove for your home. And an induction stove for people who are unaware, it's the most efficient kind of stove.

And we are strongly encouraging if people are interested for them to use them. A lot of people who use induction stoves won't ever go back because they love them. Similarly, I want to make sure people are aware of the tax credits for electric vehicles. For example, if you want to buy a used electric vehicle, you can get a $4,000 tax credit, but not just to pick up on your taxes, but at the dealership, off the top of the vehicle. If you want to buy a new electric vehicle, there's a lot of, there's a wide range of kinds of electric vehicles, obviously some super expensive, but there's some that are more affordable. And if you lease an electric vehicle, you can still get a $7,500 credit that you can take down the amount that you'll

have to finance or if you want to buy it outright. So I want people to know those are the catches for the purchase of an electric vehicle. A vehicle has to be made in the United States. If they lease an electric vehicle, it just has to be an electric vehicle. It doesn't have to be made in the United States and if they buy a used one, it doesn't have to be made in the United States. But I want people to know what they can access. Similarly, for families that are really income constrained, that they can pick up the phone and call to get their home weatherized. So you could have somebody come in for free and install insulation in their home in the attic, you know, energy efficient windows, energy efficient doors, replace your light bulbs with lights, get

30% off of your energy bill every month by just installing energy efficient technologies in your home. And that's four free. And you can call your local community action agency to see whether you qualify. So part of our work to do is getting the word out about these opportunities that are available for people as we move through this agenda. That's so cool. Thank you. Yeah, I'd say we've still got a lot of work to do in a lot of things as well, including getting the price down for some of these advanced technologies that we are working on. So if I can just say a word about that. Yeah. Because, you know, we have launched, you know, how there used to be a moon shot.

We've launched a series of Earth shots on how we want to bring down the cost of technologies so that they can be. more readily. So it's a little bit longer serving. So we're looking at how technology advances can bring down costs. So for example, one of the most promising future technologies is clean hydrogen, which is a form of energy storage and a form of clean energy. And we want to reduce the cost of that so that it's affordable across the board. And we've got all these hydrogen hubs across America that we've just launched to be able to do that. Another technology is offshore wind, but on floating platforms so that the wind, the platform can move and turn to wherever the wind is best situated.

And they don't have to be, and especially for places like California where it's very deep and very steep, it's one of the most promising kinds of technologies that we're looking at. So there's just all sorts of really interesting next generation technologies, how to have a net zero home, how to have a home that is not producing any CO2 and not using much energy except for clean energy. I want that. I know, right? Yeah. Materials that you would be using for that. So there's a whole series of earth shots that we have undertaken to bring down the price and to make sure that we are doing all we can to deploy clean energy from today and in the future. That's so cool. I can't wait to keep in touch about what our office.

options are with our homes because I'm ready to be a pilot house. Let's go. Oh, do it, do it. A net zero or maybe even a net CO2 negative. I would love it. Sign me up. I was just in Southern California, actually, at a community that is a net zero community where they're using, for example, they have solar, they have battery storage to save the solar energy so that you can use it at night. They have what is known as a virtual power plant where you can take your electric vehicle, you can charge it at home, and the electric vehicle actually provides power to the home itself, the battery and the electric vehicle. So it's two-way charging, meaning that it takes charge from the grid when you don't need it. It gives you power back or the grid power back when it's needed. I mean,

those kinds of innovations are all coming down the pike, and it's very exciting. It's really, really cool. It's a really nice reminder that there are possibilities we may not have even imagined yet that can solve the problems that we're currently living with. And it's, it's really heartening to be reminded of the potential and to know that all of this is underway. So thank you for your dedication. Thank you for being so ferociously coming. committed to this, we need you, and we're grateful for you. Well, I appreciate the chance to be on to talk with you. I certainly appreciate your activism and your advocacy and your strength and your voice. Thank you. It always just makes me so happy to see you. Well, thanks so much for

having me on. It makes me super happy to see you, too. Thank you. You have a great rest of your day, and like I said, you let us know. Anything you need support on, we're here. so much. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. This is an I-Heart podcast.