Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Tony Hale

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Tony Hale has infused humor and heart into hilariously awkward TV characters on "Arrested Development" and "Veep," and now he’s taking on a profoundly different role in the fantasy-drama “Sketch” — a beautiful film he worked for eight years to make.Hear which moment in the movie hit very close to home and even helped him be a better dad. Find out what traits he and Sophia share, and which one informed his character in “Arrested Development.” Plus, Tony tells why "Veep" writers would never have written storylines like the ones playing out in real life current events."Sketch" is in theaters now.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Well, hello, Whipsmarties. We have someone on the podcast today that I have such a talent crush on. I'm geeked that he's here. from playing incredibly hilarious characters like Buster Bluth on Arrested Development to Gary Walsh on Veep. We are joined today by Emmy winner Tony Hale, who is here to talk about a pretty profoundly different and deeply personal role that he's playing in the fantasy drama feature film sketch.

What really struck me about it is the movie exists in this fantastical world. Tony's daughters' drawings come to life and kind of wreak havoc on a town, but they wind up bringing the family closer together. And Tony isn't just the star of sketch, the great dad on screen. He was a driving force behind the scenes, co-producing this movie and fighting for eight years to get it made. Today we're going to talk about that journey, how you really stay loyal to your creativity and your hunches about what you want to do.

His journey as a performer, as an anxious person, as a father, Tony is so self-reflective and authentic and funny and just genuine. Oh, what a gem. Let's dive in with Tony Hill. I'm great. And thank you so much for your flexibility. And congratulations. Sketch is so beautiful. Oh, did you get a chance to see it? Yes.

They sent me the screener. And I just love it. At one point, I paused the movie and I ran out. My partner was doing some work. And I was like, I know you're working. I need you to look at this. I just need you to look at this. This is so amazing.

And it was really, I felt like I couldn't wait to share. with people. So I can't imagine how you feel about it. Yeah, that means a lot. I mean, that means a lot. It's a, well, it's taken us eight years to get it made. And we just, I mean, you know, I mean, the business is so easy getting a film to it. No, yeah. But it's like finding financing and people either thought it was going to, when we pitched it, they either thought it was going to be like the Babaduke, but then it was kind of funny, or they thought it was like, goosebumps, no, but it's got some emotional depth. So they couldn't really grab the vision of it, which I get. and then just having it released it's a very like uh take care of my kid kind of a feeling you know

yeah but i we're really proud of it so i appreciate you watching it i'm so excited for you it really made me think you know normally um when people come on the show the very first question i ask them is the one i'll ask you if you could like fold space time for an afternoon and today you could walk onto a playground and hang out with your eight-year-old self, do you think you'd see the man you are in that kid? Do you think that kid's interests, if you got to watch him play or talk to him about what he was into, would track for your career? And it's a crazy question to pose to someone who literally made this beautiful movie about the inner world of a child. Yeah. First of all, I love that question. I love

unique questions, so I really appreciate that. Oh, thanks. I gotta be honest I don't think it hasn't been until probably the last five years through therapy that I've like kind of liked that kid you know I mean that sounds super

kind of deep and cheesy but I was just kind of like that kid was kind of obnoxious and just you know just how much attention he could get and I wasn't crazy about him and then just kind of much like I've done with a lot of my emotions

kind of invited them to the table rather than trying to kind of, you know, compartmentalize them, that's been helpful of like, yeah, it's a kid who, yeah, he was kind of, as we all do, you know, middle school is like a piece of hell. And so just managing, you know, he was doing what he could to get through it. And I think it was more of just like, I would, I can definitely see the pattern that has developed. I can definitely see how the whole map has been put together and how it definitely started there. I mean, I was a very anxious kid. It's kind of beautiful how that anxiety is used in

today's work that I've, you know, or that I've been able to put out, which is great. Um, so I've seen the whole kind of patch making of the quilt, but back then, you're just like in survival mode, you know, so just kind of me alongside him being like, hey, it's going to be okay. You know, just you're doing your best. Um, I think one thing I, one thing I do tell, uh, I'm sure you've talked a lot to younger actors and they always ask her advice. But I would say, like, just so you know, the value you have today is going to be the exact same value you have after whatever success you think is like success, that your value doesn't change.

Yeah. I think I lived my life and this business is in a way of like, you will have value when this happens. You have value when this happens. Yeah. Even the way, even though in my mind, I know, that's not true. The subconscious can believe that, you know? Totally.

confirmation of like, yeah, my value is the exact same as when I was back in middle school. It hasn't changed. Absolutely. Well, and I think you see that on such a large scale, right? Like, you know, you look around the world and this sort of runaway, runaway capitalism, if you will, like, you see all these people who have everything they could ever want of value and value that they could never spend or use who still aren't satisfied. And so what you're saying is really, it's really hitting me because, and maybe it's the stage we're all in in life, right? Like when people have gone through career shifts or divorces or moved across the country or whatever the big change is and you realize like, oh yeah, anywhere I go, I'm still there.

My problems are still there. Hopefully my joy. is still there. But like, oh, I really do. I have to get to know me. I have to deal with me. And I don't think it's an accident that so many people are dealing with their own unique version of the same situation. There's a universality to it. Oh, yeah. There's also, I mean, I love you said that because there's a, there is a tremendous weight that we put on these kind of whatever that big thing is. I mean, I've talked about this so much. Do you ever talk about something so much,

and you're like, people are so tired of hearing about it, but... Yes, but then I have to remind myself that much like today, whatever you're about to say, I haven't heard you say. Okay. Well, that makes me feel better. And there might be something I've said a thousand times that's new information to you. There's probably fans of both of ours that are like, shut the fuck up.

You keep repeating this. But oh, well, you know, we're just two humans hanging out on Zoom. Also probably pretty narcissistic of me to think that everybody He listens to animals. Every single person knows every single thing I've ever said. And they're counting them. But when I booked Arrested Development, that was my, that was, I all, when I was in New York, you know, just trying to make it, quote, make it, being on a sitcom was like it for me.

It was like, if I can, I remember back then we had pilot season, if you remember. It was like the season where everything gets made. And that pilot season would always run by me. like, damn it, you know, I miss pilot season. And then I booked it, and I realized that it did not satisfy me the way I thought it was going to satisfy me. And it really, really freaked me out because I got, you know, I was fortunate enough to get my, quote, dream, and it didn't satisfy that.

I was like, oh, shit, this is where to now. And then after that was canceled, when I kind of kicked into therapy, and I just realized like that whole thing of like, if you're not practicing contentment where you are, you're not going to be content when you get what you want. And I had not been practicing contentment, you know, all my time in New York. I mean, not that I didn't love my time in New York, but any time I was going through stuff, I was like, you know what, whatever, that big thing's coming, that big things came in, and I gave it too much weight, way too much weight.

And it matched that weight. Yeah, and it's like putting too many eggs in one basket, right? We understand why that's bad or should be observed or however you define. find it in a relationship. You know, you hear, you want to be happy with someone, but not codependent. But nobody talks about co-dependence with your career expectations or your personal goals. And it's kind of striking me that that's sort of what it feels like. You think, like, you know, it's the work version of like, once I meet, you know, my Prince Charming from the Disney movie, everything's going to be amazing. And it's like, yes, somebody still has to do the

dishes actually. So good luck. Yeah. And there's also a big difference what I'm learning with codependency and healthy dependence. Yeah. We need each other. We're made for community. We're made for relationships. And I've, I jokingly harp on codependency a lot because it's a strong, strong in my history. But like, it doesn't mean I'm supposed to be massively independent or isolate. Well, because that's not good either. That's not good either. There is a balance of healthy relying on each other you know and and where the reliance feels like joy where it feels like love totally you know how nice like what a what a thing i'm curious you know when you talk about that early success with arrested it it's really interesting because it makes me realize something like when i was

working on my first show which similar thing right like in the early ops you book a wb show Oh, sure. Like, right after Dawson's Creek, you know, what a thing. But then our show also got relentlessly made fun of because it was high tabloid culture. The soup loved to talk about and to be perfectly clear for our listeners, we were doing a lot of really dumb shit on that show. So, like, they deserve to make fun of it. But in a weird way, it gave me the opposite thing where I was doing this thing that was largely pretty amazing and kind of ridiculous but ridiculous is fun and i got so almost allergic to liking it or thinking it was good

and only as a pandemic project rewatching the show for a podcast with my friends because like how could we work and what were we all doing anyway we were like wait this a lot of this is actually really good like occasionally you know a dog eats a guy's heart on the way to the hospital transplant like that's ridiculous but actually these emotions these actors like i even looked back at myself and i was like oh my god you really ate up that scene okay and i've been able to kind of enjoy it in a way i didn't then are you at a point where you can go back and look at those things and just love them and love your time on them or um not yet i think i'm man it's a it's a tough one because it's it's hard for me to watch it and not constantly think how the sausage was made or how just almost the feelings that I was going through.

I mean, I was so overwhelmed on arrested, which by the way, I would not have been able to play Job on that show because he was super confident. Thankfully, I was playing like a very overwhelmed, you know, out character was having panic attacks every other day. So, I mean, that worked. but I just I think I was I was so um honestly it's I relate it I relate it to that kid in middle school like it's taken me a little time to kind of be like I get you I'm getting there with that time on arrested because I was just in this uh really really I'd never been on a stage I never been a lot I just asked a lot of stupid question I mean I was just kind of overwhelmed so I think there's a little bit of a not embarrassment but kind of oof but then again and also maybe i gave a lot of power to people that i probably i just that i probably should not have given um in just the business in general you know so kind of that's where i go back i'm like god i really gave that person a lot of power you know that kind of stuff but that's those are the regrets i have but in terms of the

I do really I mean like my favorite joke in the show is Tobias joining the Blue Man group because he thinks it's a support group with a press man I mean I think that is so layered and wonderful and like him dressing it

he was my him and Joe were probably my favorite characters Will Arnette was just you know what I'm circling back but it's like I think watching other people on that show gives me I love me and like but

But for people, yeah, and Veep's a different story because it happened later. And so that, I have no issue. I mean, I enjoy that. And I love watching blooper reels because that's what I remember. I remember just not being able to keep it together. I mean, you know that feeling like when your whole body is shaking and you're just like, I, I'm really trying my hardest, but I'm not going to be able to make this. And I know the camera's on me and I guess I'm going to lose it. That kind of feeling, I love watching that stuff.

Yeah. Oh, it's such a joy, too. Like, whether it's you or someone you love to watch, watching somebody break really is one of my favorite, like favorite moments. I mean, I don't know if you grew up, you're younger than me, but the Carol Burnett Show was a big influence on me, and they would always,

Tim Conway trying to break up Harvey Corman, just, and you can just see the pain in Harvey Corman. It's so good, and it's so freeing. It's such a moment of accidental joy. where it's, nothing is planned, they're just free. And you're like, oh, I watch that. I just, I was telling somebody recently, it's like, I would love a Comic-Con for just bloopers.

Like, I would, like, just to, like, just be absorbed in them. I love it. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. Is that so surreal to you? Because when you talk about Veep, I think about that. level of complete political absurdity that you all were portraying and half of the days of my week now when I look at the news, I'm like, is this a headline from The Onion or is this the New York Times? Like what, what's happening? Is it surreal to you? Are you like, oh, God, in some

woo-woo world? Like, did we manifest this? Is this the secret come to life? Like, did I mean, how do you even deal? That's so good. That's so good. I do. I do. But what's even more surreal is I remember an episode where Selena was, she tweeted something accidentally.

And we were all like, she tweeted something. We were all freaking out. And Trump lives on Twitter, you know, stuff like that. Like an insane person. Like, yes. And you're like, wait a second. We were, we thought this was extreme. Right.

And now, you know, CNN is its own political sitcom. You know, it's that kind of, and that's, I think, partly why we, or they stopped. I mean, I would have kept going because I love them so much. But it was, there was nothing, everything was, had just become its own farce. You know, wild. I mean, I'd love to go back, but I think it just got, things got too extreme. Oh, my God. I would give anything.

Please. Bring it back. But I, yeah, it is, it is kind of, it must be a wild, feeling to have read scripts for that show and gone, okay, well, no one would really do this. And now you see what's actually on the internet from the literal president and you go, oh, if we'd written a fraction of that, the heads of the studio would have said we were being insane and it could never go on the air. Totally.

And I think that's exactly what did happen. The writers would be like, if we had written a character like this, easily the note would have been too broad. This is weird. We've gotten away from our, because we're always trying to ground it somehow. And it's like, no, that too. A cartoon character is, you know, kind of out there. It's so nuts to me.

It's like we live in the family guy. Do those things, do you think they strike you more deeply, perhaps, because of the way that you grew up? Because when I think about, when I look at the movie and this dad that you play and then I think about some of the things that you've talked about in the ways you've. grew up and the ways you came into the work. And, you know, your dad was a physics teacher and suddenly science is under attack. Your mom was involved in politics. And then you did Veep. And now a cartoon character is the president. Like, how does it all kind of, how does the dust settle for you in your experience when you look around at all of this? I mean, it's the first thing I thought about

when you said that is there is an irritation component of man there's I mean honestly not to like for instance my faith is important to me and I grew up in a kind of a conservative environment

and many times there is an association with my faith with a certain party and it's if anything I just go ah that's not the faith i'm experiencing you know like christ says the fruits of the spirit are love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and self-control that that's the fruit

of someone following god i can't find one of those in a person that is associated with with uh my faith that's right you know and i i kind of i mean not to get too political but it's like that's when I get just speaking of Veep and I remember doing a storyline where my character was kind of connected to kind of the faith component

and I was that whole narrative not the narrative of the show but just the narrative of those out there is really frustrating you know it's a very powerless feeling sometimes because I'm like wait a second this isn't tracking

you know totally yeah that was a total tangent but that's That, when you were talking about that, that's where my mind went immediately went. No, but I think that's really powerful. The kind of incongruous nature of the like preachers with private planes telling us to deport people and take food away from children, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is literally the opposite of what I learned. I feel confused. And it is surreal.

I, you know, I feel really lucky. I grew up my mom, like, deep Catholic family. My dad grew up in a sect of Christianity and became an atheist, and the entire rest of my family is Jewish. And so I've done, like, all of the religious studies, which I adore. And it is that incongruous experience of watching people tell you. It's like someone saying to you, promise the sky is green and it says so in this book and you're like but it doesn't it literally

says the sky is blue and also the sky is blue and I can see it and what and it's so um it's so confusing but what I think this is going to be a wild connection but this is what's coming into my mind and I I hope you'll ride this train with me what I think stands out so powerfully even in this very funny, strange, hybrid, authentic and heartbreaking, but still so light in its moments movie you've made is that the whole thing really is about a hero's journey and a group of people learning to tell each other the truth even when it's hard. And that, to me, is kind of a spiritual thing. Yeah, that's really powerful because I, when you're, when you're you were talking, I just immediately thought about the word control, where there's people are just

trying to control a narrative or doing things and saying this. And it's like, listen, stop point the finger. You got to point the finger back at yourself. Like, we've got to start, I mean, just like, that's bad. That's bad. It's like, no, let's just start taking care of our own six feet and be like, what am I? What do I need to work on? Who do I need to love? If we start doing that, then that might cause some kind of a change. The change that you're trying to control, if you do that, then I might start doing that. But it's like in the movie, the dad, who I play, you know, he really thought compartmentalizing grief was kind of the best thing to do. So if I can control it, if I can not, because he leaves his wife in the movie. And, I mean, I get it. I mean, I've got a 19-year-old

daughter. I do not want her to walk through challenges. I don't want her to feel, I mean, I want her to be happy and all that. Get that impulse. But if I tried to, he, in the character in the movie, you know, doesn't have pictures of her in the house. He doesn't really talk about his wife. He, and in his mind, he really thinks this is the equation to save the situation. When in actuality, he's got to let go of that control and allow his kids to process them the way they're going to process them. That's how they're going to get through it. And I feel like, you're right.

That's kind of this, what's happening is like, in people's mind, they think, no, if I do this, if I try to control this, That's going to be the equation. No, you've got to let go of that control and process it your own way and point it back at yourself. Yeah, it's like that adage, you know, when I point the finger at you, there's three fingers pointing back at me. It's a nice reminder, I think. When you talk about the movie and for our friends at home, sketch was released yesterday. How do you feel now that it's out in the world? I mean, you talked at the top of our conversation about putting eight years of effort into getting this movie made.

What's it like to have an eight-year-old in the world for the last 24 hours? How do you feel? Well, thanks for, first of all, that's really kind of you to watch it and talk about it. I think it goes back to that control. It's like I am powerless to how people receive. I love it so much. It means so much to me. I, and I really want people to experience the joy that I have experienced from it.

Yeah. I don't have that control and I want that control. I mean, I've been doing press for a while and it's hard not to be like, watch sketch. I promise you, it's going to make you feel so good. I will fix you. But it's, you know, I don't have that. And so now it's just that kind of vulnerability of like, hey, I got to just let it go. Yeah.

Yeah, releasing it into the wild is like, oh, it's tough. It's tough. What drew you to it? You know, because I always think it's good. You spoke earlier about how, you know, you'll talk to younger actors. I think it's so important to let people know how hard it is and how long it takes to get something made. And for you to stick by this thing for close to a decade, when did it come to you? How did it come to you?

What made you say, you know, come hell or high water, I am going to get this movie out? Like, why do you think it got in you like that? I don't know if you're like this, too. I don't know. I don't know, but something just kept because, you know, eight years ago when Seth Worley, the writer and director, brought me kind of half the script, I was like, dang, because I knew his history was special effects. And even in the movie, she's drawing things out of chalk or crayon or sharpie or glitter. And you can see the textures and the monsters that when they come to life. yes and I just loved his detail of that and that at the same time being a dad I was like I got the there's a new term called snowplow parenting where it's not helicopter parenting but you want to remove all the challenges in front of your kid you want to just snow plow them away and I get that I fully get that and I when I saw it I was like oh man I I like the idea of not only a kid watching this and feeling seen that like yeah we all process feelings differently but parents

just giving themselves a break, you know, of like, yeah, this is a learning curve. Of course this dad thought he was doing the right thing. And everybody else is like, whoa, let your kids feel, let your kids feel. But in his mind, he's like, no, we got to move. Like, he just was in survival mode, you know, so I liked, I resonated with that. But yeah, to the, to what, to your question of, it's hard. It's crazy, man. This, and you can relate to this. I mean, we've both done work. And at the time, it looks like we're working all the time when in actual reality, there's months in between those jobs where you're hiding for work. You're like, when's the next job? And how's this going to be received? And you're gig to gig. You know, you're calling your agent and you're like,

is anything going on? What's happening? It's like there is a, I've been doing this for 30 years. And there is, you know, there's just, there was a season actually after a rest of development where we thought we were going to have to sell our house because we were like we don't know if I I remember the month that arrested got canceled we bought a house and my daughter was born so this was you know almost two years ago and I turned to my wife and I was like I don't I don't know what to do I don't know what and so we kind of kept going and gigs weren't really flying that much and I was and we talked to our kind of our financial consultant be like do we think we need to sell the house he's like we're not there yet, but it might be coming. You know, and you're like, you know, you just, but that's kind of,

and then you kind of take funds from other things and you make it work, but yeah, it is a bit of a piece mirrored together career. And as you, I mean, we both know, this business man is, so many times people have said, hey, you just can't take it personally, you just can't take it personally. It's hard to not take it personally. Yeah, right. It's tough. One of the craziest things about that to me, me as an actor is our entire job is to be so raw and so empathetic that we can feel another person's feelings and portray them as our own. And then we get our feelings hurt and people are like, don't let it hurt your feelings. I'm like, are you nuts?

Yeah. Are you nuts? It's like the weird misnomer. It's like the comment section. people on the internet are like look at how many this point this many million you must just have people kissing your ass i'm gonna be doubly mean to you and it's like so you're just doubly mean i'm just running into doubly mean people all day and i'm not supposed to let it affect me i'm like a sensitive little smush what do you mean i'm like moving around in the world like a snail without a shell totally i'm not built for this that's your job too like you have to you got to access these feelings and you're

right you can't turn them off when somebody says words like it it does and when somebody says like a if you're going for me if i'm going up for a job and someone's like yeah you weren't right what's not what what what what i'm like but what do you mean what do you mean and it's also the sense of like sure i'd love i know i know that it's i wasn't right but it's it's tough to not feel it you got yeah well yeah because then you think but what could i have done that would have been right Totally, totally, totally. And you know what I've started to do? Here's a little nugget.

I don't know why it's helping, but this came out of a conversation with one of my best friends where we were talking about, why does the negative way so heavy and the positive way so light? Why isn't everything just in for a pound of flesh, if you will? And we were like, okay, how do we take the things that feel hard and put a little humor on them or a little something, you don't get a job or you don't get the thing or something doesn't go your way. Like, how do you take your power back a little bit? And what we've both started to do is, we'll vent about something or be sad about something and then be like, oh, well, sucks for them. I'm so fun. And like, that's the end of it. I'm so fun. I'm such a good time. I bring good snacks.

Like, whatever dumb thing any of us can think of. And it's funny because none of my best friends, and like the little group that we do this with on a group chat, like none of us work in the same industries. Yeah, yeah. But we're all experiencing our own versions of the same thing. And I'm just like, sucks for them. I'm a good time. And then I get a little bit of it back, you know?

I even love that I'm so fun. Like I'm not saying that because. Oh my God, I'm so fun. I'm so fun. Because the amount of other talk we give ourselves. Oh, yeah. Because that closet, that like packed full of shame is full. you know i can just completely rip myself apart and and take myself to court and constantly you know

all the all the time those little things are like i'm so fun we just don't even saying it there's a lot of power and kind of putting a label on it that's like yeah i love i mean even in this conversation me to you i'm like tony you're brilliant and like you're a good time you're a good hang it must be really it's so nice to be smart and fun yeah take it with you BT Dub, same. Merci. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. I like that.

I really love you're doing a podcast, by the way, because I think you're really good at this. Thanks. You know what? For a person who's like absolutely a little bit on the spectrum who wants to have deep talks and who always no matter what, like, I would, I would, I would, I would say like six out of nine, six out of ten times I go to a thing. I don't know what happens. I don't know if I like, if I have a little bit of some sort of energy that I can't help but let seep out into the world.

I wind up in a corner and somebody is like telling me their deepest, darkest secrets, we're unpacking what's going on in their relationship or with their family or whatever. And I kind of love that. Yeah, yeah. But I also realize occasionally where I'm like, ooh, I'm having like a really, I'm having that little like ADHD with the wing experience where I ask a question and I'm like oh the room one other person's there with me but like the other four people in this conversation and like that's kind of a lot yeah I realized a podcast gives me the container within which

to ask questions to let conversations be as deep as they want to be and and I love it yeah I just love it and like I don't know maybe it's because I grew up begging my mom to pick me up early from school so I'd be home before Oprah started not 10 minutes after it's after her show started so I could just watch her like talk to people about their lives you know that's cool but I love it you always had you always walk into that permission of being like this is always going to be that conversation that's nice yeah and if it's and if it's light and we're like laughing and being stupid the whole time great sometimes it's a hybrid sometimes it's really serious and I like getting to meet people where they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of cool. Pete Holmes calls, he says some people have a tell me your pain face. And I totally, just like there's an openness to like your face or my favorite that it's like people feel free to like just tell me the pain, which, you know, I also really enjoy that. Try not to fix it. That's the challenge. That's tough. But I just to listen.

Yeah. It's hard for me because I want to be like, oh, well. this is what I went through. And it's like, no, why don't you just listen, Tony? Yeah. Another one that I got from my therapist, which is really good, is when I can feel that urge coming to say, quick question, do you want to talk about how to solve it? Or do you just need someone to listen to the problem? And if I can know myself well enough to ask that question, then the person I'm talking to can tell me, what they need.

And in a weird way, then I don't feel like they want me to fix something. And if they do, I'm like, you trusted me with that. Yay. That's actually, I will use that on my daughter. That's really, I am my wife because we, you know, like, I do have that compulsion to be like, oh, especially with my daughter, like, I've been through this. And it's like, no, I want me, do you want a solution right now? Do you want my thoughts on a solution or do you want me just to listen?

That's a great precursor. And it's nice for them, and it's nice for you, because I get the sense, you know, maybe anxiety recognizes anxiety. It's like the less cool version of like game recognizes game. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm like, if I don't know what someone needs, I actually can get a little anxious listening because I have all these thoughts and I don't know when it's appropriate to say which one. And weirdly asking them, the question makes it easier for them and also so much easier for me. So it's kind of nice. Oh, that's good.

It's like a double gift. Yeah. You know, as a dad, being in this position, I can't imagine what it's like to have a kid that's, you know, 19, 20, who's out in the world. Because to your point, of course you want to remove obstacles and difficulty from your children's lives, your child's life, but they learn resiliency by encountering problems and solving them. And so the duality of that, I imagine two decades into doing it is pretty intense. Knowing about your personal struggles with anxiety, your own experiences, processing your childhood, how do you feel like you can look back at your history and then forward at what you watch your kid do and figure out? how to how to parent yeah that's a tough one because um i mean i wouldn't just like both of us probably

i wouldn't be who i am without everything i've gone through yeah act like there's no way i would not have um empathy i mean all that kind of stuff is yeah result of what i've been through but it's like man it's like that that knowledge in me turns off with her like it's just i just it there is a there's a when they're growing up there's a big difference between a performance cry and a real cry you know like

yeah because I had that cry we're just that kind of you know like there's a little bit of like I need some attention or I need you know whatever it's a it's but when there's a real genuine cry and that you can see their feelings really hurt oh it is

absolutely heartbreaking and to this day like when she's really I mean she obviously the performance cries go away when they're little but it's like anytime she's hurt or I can see that pain it's just there is oh you just that you just want to rescue them just constantly rescue them and she has got to walk through it she's got to feel it and I've just got to come along with her and listen like to your point and not give a solution unless she asks and man there's just I don't even I don't even know I just take a day to day I mean she's

actually come home. She's been working at a camp as a counselor for the past month and a half. I did that. I loved being a camp counselor. She loves it. It was the same camp that she's been going to for like 10 years and she's coming home tomorrow and oh man, it's both my wife and I are just like

we're super eager, but at the same time you want to give them space and, you know, she's been kind of in performance mode for a month and a half. and so like have her space but it's just like hey hi hi hi hi hi hi talk you're like oh my god I missed you so much I don't want you to know how much but it was so much I don't know it's so sweet

it's a day to day thing of like just really trying to check myself you know yeah well that and I don't want to give any spoilers away to the movie but you know also being an adult anxious asthmatic kid who is you're an asthmatic kid Oh, we're in the same tribe.

And I know you are too. I know it's really, I was like, I could always tell there was something. Oh, the same tribe. But look at it. Yeah, yeah. But there's like this really cool thing that happens. I'm trying to think of how to reflect on it without spoiling anything for our audience. A scene in your film with you and the wonderful young actress who plays your daughter.

Yeah, yeah. She's great. By the lake. or the pond however we classify it and you really see each other and you get to explain some things to her and she gets to explain some things to you and it's so beautiful

and maybe the reason I thought about it this way is because my therapist is really worth every penny I pay him but I was like oh this is one of those moments where some part of me gets reparented by watching by watching what's happening between a parent and a child. And I know that when you have kids, you know, I've got little kids in my life,

you get these opportunities, parenting them, assisting them, that sort of reparent something in you. Yeah, yeah. Did this, did this movie feel like that for you? Yeah, it did. I mean, the other actor, Q Lawrence, who played my son. They were both unbelievable kids.

such good kids um you know one thing that i really connected to was just the dad there's a moment when the dad just says i kind of screwed up you know i i i really really uh miscalculated how to process this whole situation and um you know i recently actually did that with my daughter i i because i was talking to her and i remember when she was really young and i got kind of mad at her about something and it was just silly i was stressed out and she was being a kid and i remember there's just this moment where i was like you you can't do this and i could just see that face in her and and i said sweetheart and today i like when she was home i was like i remember this moment i'm just so sorry i was this was so angry about this stupid thing and she's like you know dad i don't

even she don't think she remembered it but you know you just the more and it's hard it's hard because there's a part of humanity where you feel like if I find that weak, then somehow it's not connected to strength. You know, like, they're not going to, they're not going to see me as whatever that, whatever I think a parent needs to be seen as. And it's like, we're, if they, there's so much power in the humanity of like, man, I'm just, I really, I mess that one up, but, you know, love you and I'm doing my best. That kind of a thing. I think there's so much power in that. that I, even as a parent, still think I have to reframe. Like, yeah, there is power in that being that honest, you know?

Absolutely. And I'd wager it takes more power, more conviction, more wisdom to be courageous and vulnerable in that way than it does to do the quick to anger traditional power, strength. thing totally and you know the fact is my daughter is probably more than likely probably going to be in therapy one day for how having an anxious you know yeah father you know who like was playing crazy characters i don't know but like there's going to be something that is going to deal with and of course there's a part of me that was like oh what did i do wrong what did i do wrong well we're human you know i there's no perfection in that you know that's but that's that's that's kind of a that's like, yeah, that's probably going to happen.

She's going to be in therapy for something. I mean, aren't we all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay. What do you think, you know, looking at the kind of landscape of what you're processing as a person, what you're releasing into the world as a professional, you know, even the fact that you're about to get your kid back from summer camp, like there's so much happening in every sphere. what at this point feels like your work in progress,

the thing you want to tackle next or maybe the thing you're going to tackle forever? Yeah. You know, I got this question recently. Sounds super cheesy, but I'm just going to say it. It was during an interview and they asked what's next. They said, what's next for you? And I said, honestly, no, I'm going to turn into Oprah.

But honestly, at this stage of my, life there's I'm really trying to ask myself what's here because a I don't I've been just for so long and not there's nothing wrong with ambition there's nothing wrong with dreaming there's nothing wrong than you know obviously planning and looking to the next thing but so much of my life has been devoted to that of just thinking next and you know wondering what's next and I just haven't really taken the time to look around and ask myself what's here you know what's going on here what's where am i um because those times when i do that is the things that i actually remember ironically you know when i do take the time to look around and what's here my

my wife and i joke that we've been married for 22 years and neither one of us remember our weddings because we just we kind of remember it but it's like i was so distracted and i was so like i don't know just this kind of whirlwind and i don't think either one of us were very present and now it's like taking deep breasts and kind of looking around and hey what's here what's here that's kind of what I'm asking myself so all that to say I feel like it's been kind of going for these heightened experiences and I've missed the power of kind of the everyday the power of the ordinary you know life is fast I'm 54 years old I just you know started when I was 25 and it's like it's fast and I just, you know, I don't want to, I don't, not in a sense of regret, but I think most of

the power in life is in the ordinary, is in the everyday, is in relationships, not in these big mountaintop experiences that I'm always looking to what's next. It's just not. You know, so I, as I get older, I want the power to really surface more in those every day. Yeah. I love that. What here. That's a good work in progress, Tony. That's a good one. It's hard, though. I love it. My therapist says you have to wake yourself up 100 times a day to where you are. And it's true. I just constantly have to wake myself up because my head is somewhere else. Like, it's checked into either anxiety, it's checked into dreaming, it's checked into whatever. And it's like, I got to check into now. I got to check in. It's beautiful. Where can all of our

our friends at home, watch sketch. Yee! At theaters. It opens, it opened yesterday, and yeah, they can watch it, hopefully at a theater near you. I think it's opening to like about 2,000 screens. Amazing. So I'm just, I'm stoked and, you know, and I, first of all, I really appreciate you doing this. This is so nice.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. Are you kidding? It's a joy to have you on the show. would like to volunteer myself as tribute for whatever project you're doing next, even if it takes eight years. I'm down. I'm a real, I'm a, like a dog with a bone. I can be a pain in the ass, which feels like good stuff made. But also like I'm really fun, you know? Like a fun pain in the ass. Oh, that's so great. I just, this is a real gift to a lot of people you're doing this,

though, because just being with these conversations, you know, it's an opportunity to kind of get a little deeper. This is an I-heart podcast.