Drama Queens - Work in Progress: Whitney Cummings

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

When comedian Whitney Cummings stops by the pod, she doesn’t hold back!Whitney takes Sophia on an emotional roller coaster, opening up about freezing her eggs, dating while navigating motherhood, dealing with postpartum depression, and why she was begging her parents to get a divorce! Plus, during their candid chat, one of them reveals they are a ‘Disney Adult’ and the other wants to be a Ren Faire Queen! There’s a lot to unpack, so strap in!Whitney Cummings is hitting the road with her “Big Baby Tour.” For tickets and info visit whitneycummings.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey, Whips Marties, one of our favorite early guests is back on the podcast today. We are joined by none other than award-winning comedian Whitney Kahnie. you know her for her bold observational humor and currently she is on the road with her big baby north america tour exploring some pretty signature themes of relationships gender dynamics and modern dating from a very new perspective that includes being a mom what it's like to age and societal

expectations of all those things she has so many great stories and laughs and so much wisdom to share and I'm just so thrilled that she is here today. So let's dive in. I'm so happy to have you back. I feel like we had the best conversation. You were one of my first guests on the pod in 2019. We made all these plans to hang out and ride horses and then the fucking world shut down.

And I was like, oh, I guess I'm just never going to be social again. but I feel like we're getting we're getting back to it now. I also think, I mean, this might be a hot take, but like we do also get to socialize for public consumption, which is slightly toxic, but also radically feminist to just monetize our friendships. Like everyone's too busy, whatever. I mean, it is funny because whenever I hang out with a girlfriend of mine or run into a female comic friend of mine at the comedy store, it's always like 10 minutes in to where they're like,

should you want a pod like like why are we doing this for free oh my god i'm obsessed we were just saying we were getting the the camera set up for this and it was a little wide and they were like oh well we can see your feet on the couch i was like no no free feet that's so funny no one gets free feet and you're right no one no one should get free free hangs either i guess like women make money from you know exploiting their bodies, we exploit our personalities and vulnerabilities and personal lives. I'll take it. I'll take it. We'll talk about, I mean, changes in personal lives for both of us. Hello. You have a baby. I have a baby. How is being a mom? Well, the good news is currently my toddler gets along well with my inner child. Okay, great. The concern was, is my inner child and my actual

child going to get along and they do it's a trip i mean look i don't have to tell you like i just always thought in order to have a kid you have to have the guy and so my brain like you know just this socially constructed timeline even though half the people in my life at least got the guy then the kid then broke up with the guy but i was still going to get the guy first even though there was very little proof that that was a working formula. Right. Or anyone. And I froze my eggs when I was 33.

Highly recommend whenever anyone asks me for advice about literally anything. I just go, don't ask your parents for a trip to Italy when you graduate or those shoes or that purse. Just go freeze your eggs. It's like an insurance policy. You get car insurance. The goal is you never actually get a car accident. Just put your shit on ice for many reasons because I did find myself. doing this math, you know, of like, okay, I'm 32. I'm dating this guy. All right. So we have a year

before we'd, and then a year, we'll take a year to get pregnant. And then I'm like dating guy with a chain wallet because I'm lowering my bar, lower and like, I guess I just have to date a guy who wears a rope as a belt. All right. You know, because you start doing the math of like the cutoff. They start calling it a geriatric pregnancy yet 35. They say Jerry. It's insane. It's insane. 75 year old. Smithers told me I was having a. You know, I was having a geriatric pregnancy. I was having a geriatric. So I was kind of like, I guess I'm never going to have a kid. I guess I'm to adopt. I did kind of for a while because you know this. You're like this too. I rescue animals. And I was like, maybe I should adopt. Like is having your own kid kind of like getting

a dog from a breeder at this point? Like I should be adopting. There's so many kids who needs homes. And then I went through pretty hardcore grief after the pandemic, which all of us just scrambled our brains. I did experiment with edibles during the pandemic. Oh. Wasn't a match for my brain. Okay. So was making a lot of bad choices in the romantic area.

I did that too. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, it was just like two edibles and I'm dating a rock climber. Like should be, we'd be legal, unclear. And also a bigger thing is I was on birth control, which I was on for migraines, I think. you know, I got these date piercings, the piercings on the inside of you here on both sides. Does it help?

Placebo effect is an effect. So if that's why it works, fine. 60% effective. I'm obsessed with opening a medical practice that's just placebo effect because placebo effect is actually higher than the effect of most drugs. It's kind of a genius idea. And so I was on birth control, which there's all this sort of look, I'm the first person. person to poke holes and like research, but showing that when you're on birth control, you're attracted to a different kind of partner because you smell pheromones differently.

Your body thinks it's, you know, so you're attracted to a different kind of person. They say that if you're going to get married, get engaged, go off birth control for a year before you get the government involved to make sure that you're still attracted to that person. Wow. So I went off birth control. I went off Prozac in my like grief. I just forgot to take it all, you know. And I was hanging out with this awesome, awesome guy who, you know, it's interesting.

Like, this might sound savage, but I think there's something so cool about it where I was like, look, I know I'm not your match. And look, in X's, my new favorite thing is to just go, we weren't a match. Yeah. I don't have to give them a diagnosis. They're a narcissist. They're this. Maybe, but also we just weren't a match.

And like, that's fine. And instead of like carrying all these negative terms about. X's, you know. And so we're just not a match. Like they are a pathological liar and I'm not. I mean, it's like, you know. I know a thing or two about that. I just, well, they're actors. They lie for a living. They win prizes for lying. So, you know, but I try to just like take all that negativity out of it and whatever kind of superiority I need to like, you know, I was like, I know we're not a match. He's younger than me. And I'm like, look, I want you to be able to like, have all these like life experiences with somebody who isn't so road hard and put away wet.

And so like, oh, Hawaii, blah, overrated. Like, you should be able to like. Go enjoy it. Go to Cancun. Please. And there is this next generation of younger guys that are like actually like not monsters. They grew up with like Beyonce and Michelle Obama. Like they kind of only saw a black president, you know, for most of their life.

and, you know, they grew up with, like, Bernay Brown. And a lot of video games, I got to say, are, like, about chivalry and a lot of them are about killing hookers. But there's some that are, you know, there's these Dungeons and Dragons guys and these, they're very cringe, but like Renfair guys. Oh, one of my best friends and I love a Renfair. They're very, very pro. Sophia, wait, we're going.

No, I have, okay. So are we going? No, are we going? I've already DMed Renfair. I'm trying to be the queen for the year. So the Renfair queen. I want to be in your court. It's a year.

I'm ready. I DM them and they actually, I've been left on red by the Renfair. So they've seen it. Wow. And it's tougher than like getting rejected on Raya. You don't know the Redfern until the Renfair. is like we're good. But Lindsay Sterling and I go together. And here's this thing. I'm so curious

and I want to shut up ASAP. I'm going to get TMJ on this podcast. But I just am so excited to talk to you. Is there anything that you're doing in life as an adult? Because I'm always looking for like hobbies. As entertainers, it's like what are we do to be entertained where you're doing something kind of to make fun of it or kind of as a joke. And then you're like, no, I'm just doing it. Like I've been to the rent fare down like six times like as a joke and I'm like yeah I just go to the rent fair okay so yes I have discovered and I thought it was ironic and that I was being very contrarian and silly with my girlfriends I'm just a Disney adult and I didn't know I was a Disney adult but then I went to Disneyland went on rides with all my friends ate corn dogs all day there are every delicious food from

around the world, including little bignets, are at Disneyland. And I was like, oh, I used to be like, why are grownups going to Disneyland? And I want to go all the time. Okay. Let's break this down because I think I'm someone who historically maybe poked fun at Disney adults because I didn't have Disney in my childhood. I think we went one time in my childhood. Like, I don't know. It's great. I went one time. One of my best girlfriends is Jennifer Goodwin. She played Snow White. A princess. A princess.

And Josh Dallas is whatever. So we went and they're like gods there, right? And we got a tour guide and I'm such a weirdo. I didn't grow up around Disney. I didn't, I didn't really have a childhood. Like I, you know, so I'm asking all these questions about like the park. I'm obsessed with the park. I, my YouTube algorithm is all princesses that used to work at Disney telling all the secrets of like what they had to wear makeup wise and what.

The Disney princess is very strong. strict rules. They're not allowed to say certain things, you know. And like, who are the, I'm just fascinated. The makeup they have to wear, all of it. And they don't, they can't pee. They can't go to the bathroom. They can't eat. They can't drink water. Like, none of it. And so I'm asking all these questions to this guys. And I'm like, so what's the deal with the, what's the deal? Like, what do you guys keep them out? And, uh, because there's this whole underground like jail. And it's a whole, I've heard about this. I want to see it. And I think it's like one in every like 30 people at Disneyland is an undercover.

cover cop. And if you really just sit there. What? Uh-huh. And then you'll watch someone just go up to a guy and be like, hey, dude, you're going to come with me. We're going for a walk. Like they have it obviously, you know, so hardcore, so dialed in. And then I'm like, that's the only place I want to be. At a time when you're like, the Epstein list and all these creeps are everywhere, I think I live at Disneyland where their policy is no creeps. No creeps. I love that. If that could be a policy everywhere outside of Disneyland also I would be so grateful but unfortunately I think girls should just be able to go there for like girls nights because there's no creeps or at least they handle the creeps yeah and then the cats you know they let out

a hundred cats at night to take care of the rat problem just to make sure there's no rats love it every night I love the Disneyland like oh I love that you have the lore it's a whole city there's a city underneath I mean Disneyland there's a city So I'm sure that being a, you know, do you look back at anything that used to make fun of or not like and then realize it's because you were becoming it? Like we kind of become what we hate, like whatever we resist, persist or, you know, whatever adage kind of like works. But I find whenever I'm like, oh, Disney adults, I'm kind of like, I feel like that's on the horizon for me. That's probably why I'm like resisting so hard. It's like when you're like mean to a guy, you're like, oh, I actually just like you.

well so really the point of this podcast is we're going to Disneyland together sold and Renfair let's go okay wait but when you were talking about Renfair you were also talking about the sort of younger more gentle dudes that go to a Renfair so where where's that train going next generation of God not all of them I can't speak for all of them we only see the Reddit stuff and the negative stuff But I think this next generation of guys is going the opposite way from these like porn-obsessed, like, you know, checked out, over-stimulated with women. I hope so. There's a lot of younger guys that are not using porn and they're like, their kink is like love. Because that's the kinkiest thing you can do at this point is like one woman.

He's actually being love? Like missionary and like eye contact and like kissing. Because like it was so extreme for that. So this like pendulum is like swinging back. And he's just this like, just the, I don't know, I just became obsessed with him. And I was like, I know I'm not your wife. Like, but can I just go off birth control? And if it happens, it happens.

Because you might not be my husband. I might not be your wife, but you are a father. Like just I see it so clearly. And that's what happened. That's what happened. Yeah. And what's the non-relationship relationship now? It's the best.

There was this part of me that was like, make it work, make it work, make it work to have this new to your family that you always wanted. And it was like, that's not fair to him. You know, I think that we forget sometimes as women when you're in any relationship or guys probably do it too. I just can't speak to that where you're like, you know, I need to make this work. Like, you know what? Can you imagine if you found out the other person was thinking like that with you? Yeah. We forget, but we're like, I'm going to be a martyr and make this work. Like, ew, you're wasting another person's time. If you're already, you know, if you're pretending or faking or trying to make something work, I mean, look, if you're in, of course, relationships take work, I really can't speak to all that because I get so confused around it. But I was just like, I don't want to have any internal monologues that are negative about this. Let's just start this off, like, honest and forward thinking and in radical acceptance so that our son never knows any different, you know?

Yeah. Just see us as like good friends and we don't complicate things. And I just never want to show. Zetman or weirdness around him. So we just started co-parenting, like, from the beginning, and it's such a blast. That's so cool. It's like a dream. And then I started dating the guy that I'm with, like, when my son was, like, three months old. Oh, my goodness. That's so cool.

I, like, look, it's so hard for me to trust that anyone would be into me in any capacity that the guy that I'm with now, we started dating when I had a newborn. Like, that's what it takes for me to be. convince that you actually like me to throw you in the deep end so hard yeah you know I'm like still hemorrhaging from childbirth and just purple from varicose veins and just you know here's my my baby we are I'm breastfeeding yeah I can't really walk and you know so the guy that I'm with now so it's kind of a wild uh dynamic but like why not and now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible

I think there's something, you know, not that we've had the same experience, but I do think there's something about meeting a person when you are your most taken apart in a way. And for me, like, I had to really deconstruct so many. things about the pressure I put on myself, the subconscious pressure I put on myself approaching 40 and wanting to be a parent and doing all these things. And yeah, sure, there's things that aren't for public consumption and there's diagnoses you could give and all the shit that you're talking about. But at the end of the day, it's like, no, if we're just trying to build the image, but the life inside isn't happy or you feel hollow or it's a,

it's like a movie backdrop like it looks like the mountains but actually it's just a sheet that's been painted on like what are we what are we doing and why do we feel like we have to do it that way and i grew up watching parents fight like dogs that not have been together i remember sobbing begging my parents to get a divorce and you know i just i don't feel like it's fair you know i think that children understand oh this didn't work out like now i can show you if things don't work out the way that the Norman Rockwell painting is, like, it's okay. And, you know, I think that it was also liberating because I was like, okay, I'm 40 years old. If I start over right now, not having a child, which I want, you know, so bad, I'm just going to put so much pressure on everyone I date.

Like, are you a father? Are you a father? And da-da-da-da, let me see. I'm just going to be like, how big are your hands? And like, just getting so primordial. Do you have any history of heart disease in your family? What about rare cancers? Like, I'm going to just get in this while. We're sending it to 23 and me right now. I just was like I'm never going to or I'm going to settle for the wrong I'm going to have a kid with the wrong person too fast and make a big mess and I don't think it's fair to be you know we talk about objectifying you know women a lot but it's not fair to objectify a man on the first date like are you a father are you a father like you know are you a homeowner and you can let me see your credit score like I just you know so I was like let me just take this off the table and then I had this you know because that worked you know when I was when I froze my eggs it took a lot of pressure off and then. this. Like, you know, I'm really also working on, you know, and I'm sure it's different from everyone, not getting all my needs met from the same person. I don't think historically that's ever been the case. I think our biological basis is like, you know, not conducive to that at all.

The idea that your person needs to be like your husband and your best friend and the father of your kid and you know, and the handyman at the house and the like everything or your, whatever it is. And so to me, I'm like, okay, now that I have my heart so full, I can actually go out and find a teammate, a co-pilot, a partner instead of like, my world. I have a world already. Yeah. You know, and I think that my relationship support was so codependent because I was like, I need you to, you're my dad that never loved me and my mom that drank and you're, you know, and then I was getting my emotional needs met from like Hollywood. Like, I mean, it was it was, it was mentally ill so now it's like I think it's just about how do you get your emotional needs met

in appropriate ways and the word appropriate is kind of a new one for me as a comedian I know it's not something that comes naturally for me to understand but like it's just like not appropriate for me to expect my guy to be sad about my girlfriend breakup you know he's like no it's not she was toxic for you and I'm like I need to cry for two weeks because I still love girlfriend breakups are so much they're so hard harder than guy but you know what wait I have to okay I know we're talking about this thing but I do have to ask you this because this was like a for me I don't even know what the interview was but when Oprah and Gail were talking and Oprah said you cannot be friends with someone who has even an ounce of jealousy about your life even an ounce

and it really it hit me in such a way because I went oh well no wonder they've been friends for, you know, their whole lives. And, oh, no wonder we go through these things. Our lives are weird. Hollywood's weird. Our careers are weird. Being in relationship to people in the public eye is weird and it's hard. And also, you kind of can't have relationships with people who find your life hard for them.

It's also tricky with that because I wouldn't even have been able to apply that advice to my life into very recently. Same. Because in order to ascertain whether someone's jealous of you, you have to have self-esteem and think your life is awesome and that you're awesome. Ding, ding, ding. I was in all these relationships where I think that was happening, but I was like, who would be jealous of my life? I'm a mess. Oh, same. I was like, nobody's meaner to me than me.

I'm not fill in the blank this person. I'm not doing fill in the blank this job. I'm not. And I wasn't in any way capable of owning what I, am. I just constantly identified what I wasn't. And that, not only for the kinds of friendships that break up, but for relationships, for romantic relationships, that makes you such a target for manipulation and people who will take advantage of you. And like, it really required everything, like the House of Cards really coming down to go, hold on. In what ways have I been complicit in

I've accepted that isn't it and how do I change that and you know in the same way that you're talking about meeting your guy in the most insane time like I never thought I was going to find the most healing and and sweet and joyful and kind love of my life in a fucking divorce girl group chat but here we like not on my bingo card ever and here we are. And it's like, I bet it wasn't on your bingo card that you were going to have a three month, three month old and fall in love with someone that wasn't that baby's dad. But I realized the only, my heart was so full with this child that the only person who could have even got through to me was someone, he's already a dad, he's, you know, has kid that was like down that was like, oh, you still have stitches in and you can't have sex for three months. And you got a baby and like, no pressure. Yeah, he was like, let him all, you know?

Was he just like, let me swaddle your baby and you were like, yep. He showed up a Harley Davidson onesie. Oh, my God. And he's an Eagles fan, so all these like Eagles gear. And it was like, because I had this identity that was like, okay, now I'm a single mom. Like, no one's going to want to sign up for this. Oh, it's going to make me cry. Like, who would want this?

Honey. you know like and i think that you're like this too and maybe i won't diagnose you but i think that we come off so independent and so self-sufficient that it doesn't occur to anyone that we ever need help yes yes you know i that was the only time i was needing help because i like literally, like, couldn't walk up a flight of stairs. Yeah, you couldn't pretend you didn't need help anymore. Exactly. You just nailed it.

And it softened me in that moment. And I'm like, is this what it comes to for a man to see my vulnerable side? Literally just being like, he would drive all the way here and he lives two hours away. And I'd be like, I have to take a nap. He'd be like, no problem, you know? Like, let me make you some food. Like, that's what it came to for me to allow someone to love me and take care of me. And I don't think I ever would have been able to do that.

had I not actually been, like, still bleeding from child. Wow. I think that's really, it's really profound, and that's really beautiful. And how fucking cool that you did it. It's a tricky thing because I'm so, like, anti-pretending to be anything you're not or don't ever make yourself small for someone. But there's also a point where you have to go, like, if I want to attract someone that has any caretaking capabilities or that will be helpful and useful. and that helps them build their pride and their self-esteem. And that's maybe how they give love if their language is acts of service or, you know,

and I'm not giving them the opportunity to do that for me. Because my thing is like, I don't need anything. I'm so independent. I got it. I got it. And they're like, do you even need me for this? Like, I want to be with someone that I can love. And, you know, I love through acts of service and I love through fixing and helping, you know.

And then I found myself in relationships with people that are just like so unavailable and so not there. And I'm like, of course I'm attracting that kind of person because I don't need anything. So I'm going to attract someone who can't give anything. And so, you know, I don't know where you are on love languages. I know, I'm sure a lot of it is, you know, it is what it is. But there is a book that is so deeply toxic. And it is so helpful. I'm going to bring it up.

It is called Getting to I Do. And it is truly the worst title of any book. but ignore all the toxic keteronormative like marriage stuff it's not even about the marriage it's like about how one person needs to be a giver and one person needs to be a receiver and like switching back and forth is confusing and you got to pick a lane and in my relationships I was always the giver but in my work I'm the giver and I just was always giving giving giving and I wasn't allowing myself to receive anything anywhere yeah and I wanted a teammate and but I wasn't giving anyone the opportunity to give to me.

So I was so frustrated where I was like, I'm doing everything myself. Why aren't they helping? It doesn't occur. When would they have time to help? You've already done it all. Right. You know, double Virgo till I die. Come from alcoholic home.

Like I'm a parentified child. Yeah. You and me both, babe. And help me to learn. Receiving isn't weak. It doesn't mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean you need a man or need a relationship or you're pathetic or we. or week it's like yeah could you make the reservation could you make that choice what do you want to

make the choice i'm just a capacity for making choices today i just i don't i'm i i'm a decision fatigue what day to go to this thing could you just schedule it thank you yeah thank you so much to love you and that's what the essence of that that book is that kind of yeah but that's what i was going to ask you because the the hyper independence that comes off as so professional so successful so whatever you know you mentioned growing up in a household where you were at times begging your parents to get divorced i also went through that and i realized i was a very early parentified child i was like i love you both y'all are nuts i will see myself out yeah i'll take it from here yeah i'll take it from here i will never need anything and the wild thing that i've been through more recently

You know, we had this big kind of family meeting, I don't know, eight years ago and started processing through some things that I thought were a really big deal. And I was in a period of five years of deep singledom, just like I reject a relationship. I'm not doing this. And I had to kind of get to the bottom of some things in my family. And the coolest thing that's happened to me since I, you know, knocked down the whole house of cards two years ago. is it gave my parents and I another opportunity to talk to each other.

And I realized I'd been saying, you know, I'm so glad my parents still have each other. And I'm really glad for where they're at, but I don't know when they became this couple that holds hands walking down the street and likes hanging out with each other. And I realized that because I rejected

the hard times they went through because they're just two people doing the best they fucking can, you know, not in a generation where they had Instagram therapists and mental health access, you know, resources everywhere. Yeah. That I missed the way they healed together.

So I rejected what didn't work, but I never learned what really did. Whoa. And so I didn't even know that in my hyper independence, which was a trauma response to that toxicity at the time, I didn't even realize that as an adult who looked super successful, on the outside and who'd been through a lot and had healed from it supposedly that I just kept finding the same fucking claws to fit the same fucking wounds. And the aha moment that I had

realizing I was in a situation at 40 that so closely mirrored a situation I was in 20 years before. Like pattern recognition. I was like, oh my God, everything stops. Everything's got to stop. And it was so scary to do it, but the way it feels now, like I see the joy on your face when you talk about where you are now, and I feel that. I just, in talking about how different it is, if it feels uncomfortable and the opposite of my thing is, you know, look, I'm, you know, I'm in Al-Anon, an ACA, and, you know, it's really just about taking a contrary action. And if something feels too familiar before you've been in recovery, that means you're recreating your childhood circumstances. Whatever equilibrium of the neurochemical, there's a great book.

Again, Horrible title, Horrible Hendricks, Getting the Love You Want about how we're attracted to people with the negative qualities of our primary caretakers because it recreates that from a mind was chaos. And the more on drugs you are, the more, you know, dramatic going through a horrible breakup. up, you need to, you know, go from the rehab to the assisted living and you have a stalker. Like, chaos was so familiar to me because that was my role as a kid was to make everybody happy and calm and just help, like the helper, right? And so, you know, and I did, and no shade on your parents, no shade even on my parents. I'm kind of at the point where it's like, we forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness because we deserve peace.

And now that I have a son, I'm like, God, I hope he like forgives me when I mess up. I'm sure I will. so just trying to you know approach that way but there was this guy on i think it was rich rule who said a sign of healthy parenting is that your children don't wish to be famous and it's just kind of like okay i don't have to overthink this i went to strangers i go to try to make drunk strangers laugh at night oh you know what i mean i didn't get i didn't get what i needed but no one's going to give it to me. I have to give it to myself.

You have to give it to yourself. And you're famous. You're in a super big jam because then people want to be around you sometimes for the wrong reason so it's not real love. And then I go, oh, well, I'll settle for being used. Being used, I'll never love, so I'll just be used. Like, I know what that is. And then to break that cycle is, like, is not a game.

It's like total, it felt like total and complete annihilation by choice. But I would not go back. for a moment. My favorite, the concept called Wabi-Sabi, I'm sure you know the Japanese term of something is actually more valuable after it's been broken. And like when a bolt breaks, they paint it back with gold. Yeah, it's so beautiful. I'm wabi-sabi, no big deal.

Yeah. You're like, I'm an art piece, bitch. Yeah, like, I'm a bumper. Like, I'm fancy. I love it. Put me in a museum. That guy, Steve Wend. The hotel guy?

Yes, he put his hand through a Van Gogh, because he has significant issues. And then they restored it. And now it's worth like 50 million more. Like being broken and fixed is sicker. Like scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Totally. And now a word from our sponsors. So I'm curious about this because you've talked about it a lot.

And if you feel like you've talked about it too much, we can move on. but you've shared about your postpartum depression journey. And so not only when you give me context on finding this really healthy love and learning to let people support you, you were also, you weren't just dealing with the physical postpartum. You were dealing with this enormous mental shift. And were you able to identify that really quickly? Because like when I was going through what I was going through,

granted not because of a kid, but like fertility hormones are gnarly. I was like, oh, what is happening to me is a kind of depression that is scary. And I need to figure it out. And I had to confront a lot of things, namely like, I'm not getting any help with this. yeah um how like how did you know that it wasn't just oh my body aches because i pushed a baby out but like something else is wrong um i'm already getting emotional so you know lots coming no in a good way i you know i i don't i no longer see crying as bad yeah it's you know it's decongestion it's like the body that keeps the score i have here somewhere it's just like

you know releasing and i think when we have these conversations like it's a sign of, I think, strength and success that we go this deep. Well, yeah, that you're not masking this part of yourself. I can't pretend anymore and I'm so grateful for that. And I used to kind of just like, go for the joke. And going for a joke podcast when there's no audience just comes off cringe and pick me anyway. You know, for me it was a couple things. You know, I will start by saying I'm not a big.

pharma pusher person. If it's for you, that's awesome. I think there's definitely a place for I know people who have, are no longer with us, who have taken their lives because they went off a medication they really needed. I know people who I think have gone on medications they did not need at all. And it has hurt their lives in a lot of ways and mental health. I went off everything and ultimately settled on just because I have repetitive intrusive thoughts, which is a normal healthy reaction from a dangerous childhood to go like, is that a stove on, is this on, is the door like, is that like it's, it's a survival mechanism. It's something that also I think women we specifically have, we're, you know, used to have to give birth in the

woods at 15, blood everywhere with predators around. Is that a line? Is that a line? Is that a line? Is that like that's, you know, survival narrative. But I did go on. on first 10 milligrams of Prozac and then up to 20 milligrams of Prozac, which just kind of cuts the perseveration in the loop and like kind of in half for me of like get off this podcast and go like, oh, that was boring. You were boring. You talked too much. That was annoying. You cried on the podcast. Why did you do that? That was psycho. I'll do that for like five minutes and, you know. Instead of an hour. Yeah. Like the idea of like I'm going to do it as much as it will be constructive for me to next time improve the way I communicate. But I'm not going to like,

hurt myself you know yeah so i had gone off prozac when i was pregnant so i was definitely off prozac as well you know so i'm not saying everyone that has postpartum should be on something for me personally uh so a little bit of of those repetitive thoughts before the prozac kicked back in and then i think there was just you know how like when you almost get in a car accident but you don't you're fine and you're fine and then you like get home and they're like yeah like it comes out like a delay. Yeah. All the stuff that I'm talking about of like I did it with someone that I'm not married to

and I did it, you know, out of wedlock after my mom died. And I'm coming off like I'm very like, I made this decision and I, you know, that's so self-actualized and I have all this agency and I did this, you know, kind of, what's the word, unconventional thing. I think that there was like a delayed emotional hangover of having to, be an acceptance of that. I didn't really have any choice. Like when I was pregnant,

I was just kind of like, this is what I'm doing. I think we forget a lot about like the freeze response and like shock. And it took me a lot of the time I'm in shock a lot. And sometimes it takes me a second to like process something that happened. And after I had him and things got real, ooh, it's made me cry. There is like a sadness around it also,

which is like fun. This is a choice that I made, you know, but there's a sadness for all of us to go like, oh, like, I'm not going to have that thing. You know, does anybody have it? I don't know. You know, does anybody have it unclear? But, you know, that's why movies like Frozen are so important because you're like, oh, the love story between sisters, you know? Yes. But I do think that I also had a sadness for myself of like, whoa.

I could have done it this way this whole time. And I put myself through shapeshifting and pretending and trying to be the girl that he'd want to marry so we can have the kid. You know, I was like, there was a sadness for also like what I had done to myself. And being around a baby, it's just like it gives you a whole new level of understanding how. I guess mentally ill my parents were it went from like I'm mad at them to like oh wow I was in actual danger

like when you're with a baby and you see how defenseless they are and how innocent there's like a new status that comes up that's like it's like they didn't want this like how could you not you know but addiction is real and addiction, you know, people that are addicted to drugs,

they give their baby away gambling, you know, a casino or, you know. So I think it's a lot of that. I think when you're with a baby that's so defenseless and so innocent and so sweet, you also go like, what happened? What does this world do? Like I've just little boy, he's the sweetest thing. And I'm like, all men start out like this. Yeah.

What are we doing to these people? Like, what are we doing to them? So I think there was this, there's a sadness there. And then as he gets older, I think that's when the postpartum, I don't know what to call it, really hits me because I didn't really have a childhood with toys and play. And so I'm kind of having it for the first time with him. And it's just like sadness, which is like I'd rather be the person crying on your podcast as much as embarrassing it as is than the person who's like angry later, you know, because I think I had a lot of anger for a long time that I just thought it was like, I'm funny. and I'm sarcastic, but it was, like, angry underneath it, you know? And so that's kind of what it was for me.

I think it was a remix of chemical and, you know, your body's not your body. I actually, for the first time of my life, got obsessed with my body. Like, I had eating disorders and dysmorphia and all kinds of. It was at war with my body so long. Once I had a kid, I was like, it's not about my body. I'm not trying to get some executive at CBS to be, like, in. hire me like what i was like this is just my kid's house at this point you know that's i thought about it so i think there's just also this chrysalis of going like i'm an adult now and the relief

of like i don't have to think about myself anymore and i was so sick of myself what we do for a living i know everyone kind of wants to do what we do and that's awesome and there's so many amazing things about what we do. But like, I was like there, I was at like peak mental mental illness like crisis. And I think plot twist, I guess I'm not a malignant narcissist. I was just so sick of myself. And I realized like if I'm thinking about myself all day, I hate myself. But if I'm thinking about myself like an hour a day, that's like that's like the sweet spot. So such a victory in all of this, but I think once you have that child in front of you and the decisions really made of like, okay, like I'm a single mom. Like, okay. Like, I tried. I did everything I could. I pretended

to like the, you know, the Miami heat for a guy. I pretended to like hockey. I pretended to be this person. I pretend to be in the camping. Like, I tried. And it didn't work. And I couldn't, I couldn't make it perfect. And, um, there's, a little bit of a, like, you know, I think my son's going to think it's cool, but there's a little bit of, like, I have to explain this one day, you know. Yeah. Yeah, but I think it's kind of incredible, you know, I will never forget, like, and this was years before any of this, but I will never forget doing, um, during, uh, during, uh, the pandemic when we were all home. I did Glennon Doyle's book tour with her on Instagram live.

Yeah. And when she talked about being in this marriage and looking at her daughter and saying like, would I want this for my daughter? Oh. Like I'm staying for my daughter, but would I want my daughter to stay in this? Oh. I needed to hear that to eventually unpack the house I grew up in with my parents. And I needed to hear it so that on the precipice of having a kid, I could say, I don't want this for my kid. I don't want the thing I'm in that has just eviscerated me to be the thing my kid grows up in. And I think there's something so cool about. about the fact that we all in our own unique versions are having this experience because I think the kids we raise are going to be more mentally healthy because we can talk to them

about finding mental toughness, about finding our own mental health, about not having to make it look perfect and not trying to go after, you know, the fairy tale ending, but actually finding joy and personal fulfillment, even when it requires so much courage because you have to do the brave, hard thing. But I think that what you're saying is making me think for the first time, the idea is that I think this generation, we are kind of been chosen to be the cycle breakers. And hopefully this next generation doesn't need to have constant mental health all the time. Hopefully there's meditation in schools and there's, you know,

school isn't just sitting down and staring at a memorizing when that's not how we're wired, you know, like I think this next generation, you know, is going to look at phones the way we look at cigarettes. We're going to be like, you guys just did that all day inside, you know, all the time. I think that like were kind of the, the, you know, our parents, I mean, the parents before that were just a wash. They were like kids working in factories, you know. They're doing pretty good given the circumstances that generation. Totally. And our parents were raised by, you know, you know, people are completely emotionally shut down that were like in wars, you know, and then us, like, I think we're the ones that are hopefully going to get a modicum of,

you know, sort of mental health in place so this next generation can just exist and be questioning in a way, you know, but it's, it's a lot, man. And like, I think to me, you know, I really stick with a lot of, like, basics, like, ratitude list is it because the worst thing I think we can be at this point. is a sore winner. Yeah. Do you do that every day? Yeah. Make a gratitude list. Do you do it in the morning or at night? I do it usually at night before bed because I do a 10-step in a 12-step program, which is where you go. Do I owe any apologies today? You know, do I have any resentments from today? Do I have any fears from today? And then like gratitude list before bed. Yeah. It's good. Yeah,

that's like a 10-step and a 12-step program so that you don't like carry shame and in the next day or you're not like laying in bed being like, was I like weird on Sophia's podcast? Should I reach out to her and like, she said you should hang out. Did I drop the ball on that? Like instead of just thinking about it, I can just go like, hey, you know, sorry if that I was late,

great talking to, like whatever it is. I can just make an apology where I need to so that I'm not beating myself up over it. And accruing change and embarrassment kind of thing. But yeah, I really am trying to write stuff down. I have a typewriter. now. Oh.

A typewriter that does not have Wi-Fi on it. We like that. I do think another part of postpartum depression, I'm not hearing a lot about me, not just because I'm sure it's a discussion, but you're really, really faced with your addictions after you have a kid and hardcore, because you're like, oh, he's on the table sleeping or he's in the bouncer or whatever, sleeping. Okay, do I have a second to go get my phone? like there was a couple times where I made the wrong decision because I had to get my phone

or look at my phone and nothing bad happened but like it could have where I was kind of rolling the dice and addictions make you sort of less able to assess the true danger of something because we want that fix so bad thank God for me it's not you know substances but like there's times he was like on the bed and I was like okay I'll just I'll just turn around real quick and I'll get my phone and I'll send that Instagram, you know, and I was like, oh, I'm kind of addicted to my phone. Yeah. Because I'm gambling. I'm kind of gambling with my son's safety as a, you know, and nothing bad happened, but it could have.

Right. So you have to face a lot of your, like, embarrassing inner monologue where you're there with your baby and you're kind of like, I got to make a TikTok. You're like, oh. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. Okay, so I'm really curious about this because this has brought you so much mental clarity and it feels like a lot of emotional softening and has required bravery and all these things. And like you said, you're facing all of this. The typewriter is genius.

Also, go, I'm falling behind, looking at my son and going, I'm falling behind. Put another stand-up special out. So that was going to be my question. How do you from this place say, I want to write new comedy? I want to go and do a tour. Like, what is, is it, oh, I took a break and now I have to get to work? I'm going to go do the big baby tour. Or were you like, oh, I've made more space.

space emotionally. And now I want this creative hit for myself as well. I had no ability to be creative for like six months. And I think that was another element of the postpartum depression of like that I didn't want to talk about. And I still don't want to talk about. I only do this for you. Because my brain didn't work. They said, mom brain, whatever. You know, my brain, I couldn't remember the most basic things. I couldn't make jokes. I couldn't write jokes. Like I just was like, I was really scared. at how, for lack of a better one, dumb I was. And it did make me realize, like, so much of my self-esteem is about how much I know.

And am I smart and am I funny? And I wasn't those things six months after I had my kid. And I was like, I'm useless. Like, I'm not funny. I'm not smart. I'm not interesting. I can remember anything. And it helped me really see that and how this is where I get my value and what I think

people like about me, which is probably opposite. People are like, she's such a know-it-all. We liked her better. So I had to face that. And then, you know, to me, I'm really big on software updates for our brains, you know, take the time and have the software update. In order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. And I've always struggled with that.

I'm sort of like, next special. Right, let me write more jokes, write more jokes. And you end up kind of writing about the same things and sort of doing a bad impression of yourself. I think it's, you know, really important that we all consciously decide to grow and mature. And I have no allegiance to the person I was yesterday. And I really try to go like, if I do this quickly and fast, it's not going to be thoughtful and mindful. So much of stand-up is just like spending a lot of time ruminating and like trying to figure what your opinion is on something. And I was like, okay, let me just take this time to like read all the books that I

pretend I've read. And let me finish all the books that I say I've finished, but I haven't, you know. And let me just like live my life a little and like do chores. And I and I realize that like so dorky, but chores are such a big part of my sanity, double Virgo till I die. But I had gotten some help like, you know, when I had the kid, when I was pregnant and I was like, I just want to go back to every morning doing some like, you know, things that need to be done. You know, productivity and cooperation, make dopamine. I want to like take care of my own. I just think we're so wired to just like do things for ourselves that need to be done. I used to have someone that did my, like, garden.

I started doing it myself. And I'm like, such a happier person, you know? It's such a simple thing, I know, but before you go to a therapist, like, clean your house, clean out your car, plant some flowers and, like, see what happens. So I, like, wake up in the sunlight, gardening. I think we're just really wired, like barefoot, connect to the earth. I know this sounds so tanga of me right now, but. that I really you know and then I watch my son he just wants to like rake and dig and I'm like

god this is kind of what we're wired to do so little that started started helping um me and and not going like I need to write five pages of jokes today I was like let me just be a person and um and then the clarity started coming back and I think a lot of things that I don't remember I wasn't meant to remember here's the good news like once you have a kid there's a little bit of like a hippocampus wipe. I've run into a couple, had a great conversation with a couple of guys. Two weeks later, I was like, wait, oh, we dated. Whoa.

Whoa. Like, when I had a kid, my brain was like, we don't need that. We don't need that. Like, little things, you know, that you carry, like that was mean to me. And that person said something nasty on social about me. It's like gone. You know, it's not the good thing about mom brain is that soft of date of like, the stuff that doesn't matter is just kind of.

of gone. Yeah, that's great. I mean, look, I'm sad for you that it felt so stressful and it definitely makes me want to double down on the fact that, you know, we actually need paid leave in this country because in other countries you can be a CEO and then have a year off with your baby. And in America, they're like, two weeks isn't long enough. And you're like, no, I'm literally still bleeding. What are you talking about? I've known a couple of people that went to England to have their child because it is cheaper to fly to London, hotel, hotel. What's have your baby and fly back than to just do it here yeah oh boy and also make everything that you said about making peace with your parents because when you have a kid come along they're your

child care i mean in this country like your parents your sister you know um so if i'm still alive i would have been like you know what it's fine come over i really only 10 minutes to make a tic talk thank you this is your way to get right with god and get your karma back but yeah i'm cashing in on all my karmic points. Thank you so much. But so, yeah, yet another reason to forgive your parents because you will need the job care, you know. But yeah, it's just a trip, you know. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too. Okay, tell me, because obviously I just want to talk to you about life all the time and eventually actually come over and ride your horses. But I do want to talk about your work because I'm very

excited about it. How many cities are you going to on tour? Where do the people get the tickets? Like, people want to come and watch you make them laugh. That's so nice. I think that honestly, and that's not just because this is my job, I think coming to see a stand-up show, even if it's not me, even if you don't think women are funny or whatever, go see live stand-up. Because it really is like anathema and alternative data to what we're seeing online every day. Like online every day, you would just think people just want to fight. People hate each other. People, if they voted differently, they won't speak to each other.

Nobody wants to laugh. Everybody hates comedy. Everyone's going out of their way to intentionally misunderstand a joke in order to be offended and then you're in like a room with 3,000 people that all showed up to laugh, shoulder to shoulder. They don't know how the person next to them voted. Everyone laughing about the same thing, having the same experience. it is just like makes me feel so hopeful to see so many people like going we want to like enjoy

this life it's not guaranteed you know i don't know how then you know if i'm going to survive tomorrow let's just laugh about all this and we don't want to be miserable you know we're not we're not the people that are just like signing up to be miserable and adrenalized you know although i know that that hating online that's an addiction i think we'll look back you know like there'll be laws that are like you can only make five comments a day or whatever. That would be incredible. You know what I mean? Like I think it's self-righteous indignation.

It's an adrenaline addiction. And guess what? If I was 18, I'd probably be that person. I'd probably be online like, you, Adrian Brody. Throwing your gum at your girlfriend or whatever after. It's like I'd probably be that person if I didn't have the outlet of doing standoff and writing. You know, I get it. if you we get heard all the time we get heard people hear like you know want to hear us like a lot of

people don't get heard you know if i didn't get heard i'm sure i'm being doing that um and so uh so yeah whitney cummys dot combs i don't you know i'm so embarrassed i'm just i have so much shame around that don't we and you're because you're right laughter really is medicine and it's like i think that i think vulnerability is medicine i think laughter is medicine i think they are both so essential in a world where we are trying to resist the andrew tatification of society and like we we need to be reminded as you said that not everyone is like violent and terrible and out to get each other yeah i mean i also think like we have to remember like i don't know that much about that guy um but there's always been good and evil they'll always be good and evil i think

like, you know, evil's always louder and mental illness is always louder. So I think we also have to choose. This might be a hot take. Like people who talk about like mental health, we got to talk about it. You might say they're in a lot of pain. Sounds like they're in a lot of pain. Hmm. And look, I also think like I'm not going to, you know, I'm still trying to figure out what my

quote, religion is, you know, even people that like, I'm atheist. that's a religion, you know, where everyone I know that doesn't have religion, they're like, have 500 crystals that have names and talk to each other. You know, I don't know. Everyone's got their religion, you know, I think it's finding one that is, you know, doesn't depend on like women are dumb whores, you know. Maybe that doesn't depend on harming others. That would be cool.

Is that what it is? I don't know that much about them. I know that if a man goes bald prematurely, everyone will pay. Yeah. Oh, God. that's a deep cut. I feel that. We need better hair transplants for men. Yeah, because maybe we could have avoided the whole mess if he'd have you seen there's a photo of, I looked, I was Googling Andrew takes. I was like, I'm going to do a bit on him on my podcast. Like, I don't really know

what this guy is. And there's a photo of him with like, the bald thing. Yeah, I know exactly what photo you're talking about. Yeah. That's it. That's it. We just need better transplants for men so they don't have to be this angry. Great. We've solved it. Also, what happened to him? Yeah, I don't know. What happened to that guy? Put me in a cage with his parents. Like, what happened to that guy? I'm not going to be the person that goes that drives me nuts when every serial killer, they're like, well, his mom didn't let him wear panty hose.

So they always serial killers, they always blame the mom. They always blame the mom. Yeah. Okay. If my son is a serial killer, it is, that's his dad. I don't know. Let's play. But I just, it's like, I don't know.

We're talking about, like, our parents. kind of set up us on a weird track. Like what did he not get as a child? I don't know. Or maybe psychopath. I don't know. Maybe all of it. It seems like a lot of cats in a bag.

Like, do you think anyone would choose that life if they could have another one? I don't really know. I think to your point, I think some people want attention so badly that they're literally willing to do anything to get it. And I do find that to be sad. You know, we're having this conversation on a podcast. people are going to listen to so what do we know i totally i just kind of like i just always go for criminal defense in a way because that just makes me go like how would any like how did you get there

how could i like if i had to defend you what would i do this is indicative to me of why we both do this because we like to ask questions i like to interview people at you have a podcast i assume you like it also or you wouldn't do you prefer being interviewed or doing the interviewing oh i kind of stopped having guests recently really yeah because i just um i don't know i tend to be a little wild and a lot of times like oh my god that was so interesting and then the day before it comes out they're like can you cut this part and this part and this part and i'm like oh you know and i don't want anyone I never feel like, you know, uncomfortable. And I also get so excited to talk to people that I feel like sometimes I'm like interrupting and I'm

annoying and I don't know. I just, I need like a little break from, from guests. But I also think really quick with the Andrew Tate thing, I do think we talk about mental health a lot, but I don't have enough people talking about when boys are abused like we think it's, like, funny. Like, it's like a punchline that, like, the Catholic priests, like, molested. Hidious. Like, what do you think those kids are going to grow up? If we don't, if they get no mental health, you know, it's like there's no mental health care for kids that have been molested in the Catholic Church. Like, there's, like, Alcoholics Anonymous, which takes place in a church. That's not

triggering. Yeah, no, that's not it. You know what I mean? So, like, who know, I don't know what? I'm not defending Andrew Tate. Oh, my God, I can see this headline already. But here's a lot. But here's, what's really interesting. I saw this author speaking about this recently and it really made me kind of double take mentally. She said, you know, I think part of the reason that men don't actually want to fix the culture of violence perpetuated by men against women, against girls, boys, anyone is because men like saying, I'm one of the good guys. I'm a protector. I would protect you. from a bad guy. And if there's no more bad guys,

they lose out on getting to cosplay the hero. So remember there was like talk of is there arson during the L.A. fires? And I started like doing a deep dive on arsonists. And arsonists usually do it to help put out the fire. So if you want to find someone that committed arson, go look at who's fighting the fire. Yeah, there was a famous case of that here in California, like a big deal fire chief who was actually a California arsonist. I think in the 90s, like really gnarly.

So, yeah, I don't know. There's just something about that where I almost wonder if so many men make victims the punchline because they want to lessen the severity of what's being done to people because they like the idea that they're not the guy who'd do it. which statistically we know is not true so i don't know i you know it's weird i just wish they'd go to therapy instead but here we are anything to not go to therapy although i do feel like some men use therapy is like a way to like have better excuses like i'm just i'm an avoidant you know my love language is physical touch with other women you're like okay no no no no no no therapy is not to have scientific excuses to be adjourned for your shitty behavior The wrong ones will just use it as a way to gaslight you into being like, yeah, and my dad didn't play baseball with me, so I'm avoiding it. I'm like, you're 50, dude.

Yeah. Grow up. Yeah, yeah, no, not that. Just grow up. You're avoidant because you like it. But I hope, you know, look, I'm sure I was like incredibly wrong on a lot of things I said, but I'm kind of just at a point where I'm like not trying to be right. I think there's a real sort of acceptance of self and emotional maturity that comes with being able to be curious and to say, I don't know the answer to that. I'm curious about this. I'd like more information. And I think that's a nice place to be. It's definitely something that. I think we all want answers.

We want, he's a psychopath. She's an narcissist. He's a this. He's a Republican. He's, again, Demer, like, I think it makes us feel safe. I think it makes us feel safe, but actually it makes me feel waste. safer to be like two things could be true at once actually you know yeah the the thing i'm working on is is slowing down and asking more questions and kind of the phase of life i'm in same someone that

you hate someone who voted differently than you someone who tweets things that piss you off my thing is like ask them three questions with an open heart and see how quickly you have so much more common than you thought you did, you know? Is that kind of curiosity? Is that pacing like a work in progress for you right now? Or is there something that takes that mantle that's, oh, like a thing I'm doing? Yeah. One of, oh, I like this question. A big one I'm working. Yeah, whatever your work in progress is right now. Because any time you're judging someone else, it's just I'm, my self-esteem is so low, I need to feel good about myself, right? So what's going on with me that I need to judge this person and be like, oh, that person's voted this way.

This person's dumb. You know, it's like, oh, oh, bitch. Like, what's going on with you that you needed that quick hit of self-righteous indignation? Also, usually when I have a negative thought about someone or something, it's, I've done that. And I don't like that that person's holding up a mirror. Like, I've done that. It's like my default is, I've done that. Have I done that?

I have. You know, she's being desperate. Like, she's being so desperate and picked me. I've done that. I've done it. And there's just like a grace that comes with admitting that you've done the thing that's, why would it bother me so much? Who cares?

It's not my business. Why would it bother me so much if I hadn't done it or if I don't do it? It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't holding up a mirror, you know? I'm working on good segue, looking in the mirror and making eye contact with myself, which is really hard. Really? Yeah. Have you ever tried? I guess I don't think about it in that way, but I don't think I, I don't really look in the mirror unless I'm brushing my teeth or getting ready for the day. But we're not even really looking at ourselves. We're kind of like, it's a, it's a 12-step exercise to look at yourself

in the mirror and have some effort, like make contact with yourself and like be in yourself. and like be in your skin. I realize I'm often very like in a disassociative state where I'm kind of just like not in my body. It's a little thing. But I realize when I look in the mirror, I'm not looking in the mirror at myself. Wow. And just being like, hey, that's you.

Like it's a creepy thing, but try it. See what happens. Okay. That's a good one. And I'm, don't just do something sit there. Just like don't respond yet. Yeah. If you think you need to respond or say something.

thing. Just don't. It's like, it's like, you know how when you go online and you want to get this pair of shoes and if you don't add it to your card or don't buy it, it'll like follow you around for a couple days, you know, the shoes will keep adding, popping up in your, my thing is like, if it needs to be said, I can wait two days. Yeah. You know, I like that. I didn't need to respond to that. I didn't need to say anything to that. I don't need to make a point. I don't need to teach someone a lesson. Like, I don't need to be at war anymore. I think it's really important to know, like, you know, they say in 12-step programs, good news and bad news.

The good news is the war is over. Bad news is you lost. It's like the war is over and like I don't have to fight little wars with emails and stuff to like make sure people respect me and make sure like true power comes with not like trying to get power. People respect you, you respect yourself, not when you're like, you need to respect me. It doesn't work that way. You know, so I think it's just doing, doing less on all of us and sitting with the feeling

and not needing to take an action because we take an action to feel better. Right. Why would you say something like this? That da-da-da-da-da-da-da, defending ourselves. I'm like, I don't need to defend himself. No one's attacking me. If someone is doing something rude, they're doing that to themselves. That has nothing to do with me.

I love that. The theme that keeps coming up for me a lot lately is slowing down, just how nice it is to slow down a little bit. It's very for people because you have to be with your own thoughts. It's tough. Silence, eye contact, slowing down, all of that. I associate slowing down with not being productive, not being busy. I just think busyness was like the pinnacle of success.

I'm so busy. Oh, my God. Now I think free time is the greatest luxury in the world. I don't want to be, I don't, I want to be so much less busy. We glorify being busy and being tired. Yeah, it's gross. Like when people get in the tired Olympics, when they're like, oh, I only slept four hours last night.

And I was like, I only slept two hours. And being sick, I've been sick for two weeks. Like we like, no thank you. We should be proud of it. It's like, yeah, what did you do today? Not much. Like, I don't have to like make, well, I did this and this. So, like, I find myself needing to, yeah, like, you know, like, I gardened.

Yeah, I gardened. I kind of, like, doing nothing is a thing, you know. Well, I love that. And being okay with, like, you know, my, the therapist I used to work with said, just like your problem, Whitney, I mean, one of the many, but your problem is you conflate boredom and serenity. When you come from, like, adrenaline and, like, you think you're bored. but you're actually just at peace. You're not bored.

That's just peace and quiet. That's the, that's the ultimate luxury. Because I think in the slowness, like what you're saying, that's when the growth comes. That's when the maturity comes. There's this documentary called Cheer, the last thing I'll say, that was on, I just all feel the need to give people like credit for what they said that's profound.

The one that was on Netflix years ago? Yes. I loved that show. Morgan. Morgan was the young one who was like kind of, close but then she got coached to being great in the season you know she came from like a rough lived with her grandmother whatever and she you know that show got huge and all of a sudden she's got like sponsorships and she's on ticot and she's sponsorships with scrunchy and you know all this

stuff check stick and Starbucks and i saw it one of the live shows i'm just like a fan of these girls because i also am obsessed with all my internalized misogyny that you never like creeps up on you remember I was always like cheerleaders uh you know I played basketball I was like like jealous obviously but I was like okay cheerleading is a sport okay and then watching this I was like whoa these are like incredible athletes and it was just my internalized sexism really right and um uh I asked her I was like she's 19 years old like this was happening I was like how are you doing like what are you doing to do this summer and she's like I'm going to take a couple months off and I was like oh and she's like yeah I just need time to like process all this

wow like what like what i didn't even know that was an option what do you mean process wow even it's a day i sit down and i process my life i'm like process like i haven't even thought to go like that happened that was crazy yeah like sometimes i just go through my photo album i'm trying to go like day to time and go like i just disassociated through that entire thing. And I've designed my life to be so chaotic that I haven't had a second to even process any of this. Right. You know, we don't make time to process our feelings, our emotions, our life, anything. Oh, maybe it's not an accident that all of us are ready to slow down. It's kind of the new, it's a flex. Yeah, I like it. It's a flex. I'm proud of us.

I know. Good, too. We know. Hello. Like, yeah, people are like, you look so good. I stopped getting Botox, but people are like, you look good. I'm like, I just like kind of sleep and I like, I'm not in toxic relationships or friendships anymore. If I need to be somewhere at four and it takes a half hour, I leave at 3.15, like. Yeah, just in case.

You know, just kind of like not doing the adrenaline thing. I love that for you. I love that for us. We're the best. We ended on such a high note. This is an I-heart podcast.