Drama Queens - World Mental Health Day: Rewriting the Rules

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

This episode is in partnership with BetterHelp.Some rules are meant to be rewritten! This World Mental Health Day, Sophia and BetterHelp clinician Sonni Williams unpack the contradictory expectations that keep us second guessing ourselves and diminish our self-worth. Together, they share game changing insights on how to recognize and question ingrained patterns so we can rewrite our personal rule books.Plus, a Work in Progress podcast exclusive - hear how listeners can access 10,000 hours of free therapy through BetterHelp’s Permission Project.Access the Rewrite Guide and get more information at www.betterhelp.com/permission-projectSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. This is an episode I am particularly excited to present to all of you because it has been born out of a long time work in progress partnership. And it comes with FreeSha.

And that feels so exciting to me. And I know the world feels like that feels like, like it's on fire lately and prioritizing your mental health can be hard, which is why I'm excited to partner with BetterHelp on this episode. We are joined by an expert today who encourages all of us to do just that. Sunny Williams is here. She is a licensed professional counselor and perinatal mental health certified clinician who works on BetterHelp's clinician team. She specializes in women's and perinatal mental health and her entire mission in life is to make women feel seen and supported. We got introduced by the team at BetterHelp because you know they've

been part of our podcast family for a long time. And what it's led to is a pretty incredible resource set for all of us. Sunny decided to create a project to really look at the messages that women absorb how we're supposed to live and succeed and care for other people and take care of ourselves, the shoulds and the shouldn'ts, and how most of them, let's be real, predict each other. Whether that means make sure you're taking care of everyone else, but make your own needs easy. Speak your mind, but not at the expense of keeping the peace. You know the drill. When you've heard messages like those for long enough, they stop feeling like expectations and they start becoming the rules you feel like you're supposed to live by. But rules,

especially the ones imposed on us by society, yes, I mean women, but let's face it, men too, are meant to be questioned. We've got to reframe them. And maybe, abandon them all together so that we get to build something better. But I know therapy isn't always accessible to people. And that's why I asked our sponsors at BetterHelp if they might help me launch a free partnership for work in progress users because I think everybody needs a little bit of space at the end of a year like this one. And they answered the call. I asked for hours for whipsmarties. And guys, they multiplied the hours I asked for by a crazy number. They are going to provide 10,000 hours of free therapy for this community.

And they've created a world mental health day initiative that is accessible to you, whether you sign up for free therapy or not. It's called the Permission Project. And it explores all of those unwritten rules we carry and gives us a how-to so that we can start questioning them and rewriting them for ourselves. I am so grateful that Sunny has joined us today. as an expert to walk us through this. I am so grateful to the partnerships team

at Work and Progress and the team at BetterHelp for doing this for us. We're going to put the links for free therapy and all the programs we're going to talk about today in the show notes so that they're easy for you to access. And oh my gosh, I'm just excited and sending each and every one I give you a hug. I hope that this feels like it's coming at just the right time.

Let's dive in with Sunny. Williams. Sunny, I'm so happy to have you here today. You know, not to open with a joke or anything, but 2026 is kind of a dumpster fire. Everybody's really stressed out. And knowing your incredible, you know, I don't even want to say line of work, like your presence in the world, the way you show up for people, the way you encourage people to take care of their mental health. I just am so glad you're here. We need you. Thank you. Heart, warm and fuzzies. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to be that space for so many people, and it is much needed for sure. Yeah. Okay, before we get into all the things you've learned and all the things you have to share with us,

I actually want to go back and do a little personal touch point. One of the things I think I've really taken from my own therapy practice is carrying along the younger versions of myself with me. And when we think about, you know, the younger women that we were or the little girls that we were, I'm curious if you got to interact with Sunny at 9 or 10, that little girl version of you, what qualities do you think you would see in her that are still so true for you today? I lost them for a while. Young Sunny was quite a firecracker. she was very outspoken, always had an answer for everything, got talkative on every report card.

You and me both, girl. Listen, but somewhere along the line, I lost pieces of that because as we know, the world shows up in it so quickly. But I will say the past maybe 10 years or so, me and Young Sunny have been like hand in hand. And I'm for sure back to taking up space, not as boisterous for sure, but very much still taking up space. And so I feel like nine-year-old Sunday would be so proud. I love that. You fast forward to now. And I would say you are a triple threat.

You know, you really, you work at the intersection of mental health and culture and community. those are not always sectors that feel, I mean, at least as connected as I think they should be. I wish mental health care was more infused in the world around us in general. I'm curious what drew you to the work and especially what drew you to wanting to work specifically with women? Specifically women. Am I biased? Yes, I am. Do I feel like women are amazing? Yes. Yes. I do. They have not always been my main focal point. Of course, when I was just starting out out of grad school and newly licensed, I saw everybody. But what I started to notice was that when I was working with women, it was like the synergy. Everything was clicking. There was just this baseline knowing that I can't explain. But I never walked away from those sessions feeling drained. society doesn't always support women's natural gifts. It really wants to put us in a box, just frankly, in a way that men haven't had to deal with,

because patriarchy has always been for them. Granted, we all know it makes them sick and they're not having a great time either, but you'd think they'd catch up and help us take it apart. But until then, I almost wonder if focusing specifically on helping women carry the load, I wonder if that helps you care for the younger versions of yourself that didn't have someone do that for you at the same time. Like it sounds, it's obviously clinical, but it sounds a little spiritual too. Yes, I definitely would lean into that because it is something of being able to connect with my clients in a way that does reach back to younger Sonny, does get to bring her kind of along on the journey with me. So I would agree with that 100%.

I love that. I think about the work that you help people do, because especially for women specifically, we not only navigate a world that wasn't built for us, we navigate a world that is so filled with conflicting expectations for us. You know, we're in this phase of life, right, or of the planet where everyone's like founders, entrepreneurs, boldness, creativity. But when women lead, people don't like that. When women are bold, people feel threatened. When women are wildly creative, they're convinced we couldn't have done it. So it's a really strange thing to live in a culture that says pursue your dreams and that then doesn't like if a woman's dream doesn't center on someone else.

So I wonder, when I think about the buckets that have these conflicting expectations, I think about careers, I think about relationships, I think about families, I think about relationships within families. I'm curious as the actual professional in the conversation, like, where do you see those conflicts, the expectations that have inputs coming from opposite sides, that where do you see them come up the most for your client base? So I think the best way to explain it is how, I see it in the therapy space when I'm working with my clients. It's the constant second guessing as we're going through our dialogue. They're coming and saying, you know, did I say too much? Am I doing enough? Am I working too much? Am I present at home? You know, should I have said yes? Are my

boundaries too harsh? It's this constant cycle of them knowing the right decisions for themselves, but then immediately questioning whether it was right for everyone else. And that's really interesting because you know you need something, but then you're worried about whether your needs are oppositional to other people's. How do you begin to help people figure out how to ever get it right? How to find the right path for them? So I am a big, big, big cheerleader for my clients. But the main thing I'm always telling them to start is be selfish. And that gets such a bad rap, but I feel like women are already starting so far beyond what being selfish even is that when I'm saying be selfish, if anything, I'm just saying, think about your needs first before you make this decision.

Think about what is it that you actually are trying to achieve before you make this decision and just showing them how to center themselves in real time. Yes. Yes, you're right, because we hear be selfish and we think that's negative. but we've been taught to be so selfless that we actually have to grab back just some basic attention and give it to ourselves. Very true. Just baseline, hey, start with yourself. Do not reach out and be everything for everybody before you're that for yourself. And that is something that does feel, I think, particularly specific to women,

the sort of societal programming that we don't even know we've been programmed. No. It's not even a thought. Do you think those things become almost like unwritten rules that we then navigate until we start to identify them? Yes. And see, here's the thing. They're all around us. Because to your point, it's in society. It's in your family. It's in your community. If you want to get to, to like a smaller micro level of, well, in our town, this is, you know, how things are. And they just become these little pieces that you grab onto.

You create your identity and then you start moving through the world. But to your point, you wake up one day and you're like, is this really working for me? And it's important to note, like, it may have worked for my mom's generation or my grandma's generation. But is it a rule that I want to carry forward? Like, will it help me in this next season of life? And I think that is an important key to this whole thing. Like, does it work for you? Yeah.

Yeah. I really loved, you know, for our friends at home, Sunny provided me with this list of 10 unwritten rules. And I was like, ooh, I get homework. I love that. And when I opened them up, I was like, oh, I feel, I feel in one sense comforted by how universal these things are. and in the other, I was like, okay, Sonny, read me for felt.

Like, oh, my God, because yes, all of these things are just, I feel them, you know. I think about some of the rules on the list, you know, be ambitious, but stay likable, be yourself, but don't, don't be too much. Don't be too loud. Set boundaries, but you have to be flexible. You know, these things that just feel so specific. When you start to question that for yourself, you start to feel like, well, am I crazy? Do I deserve to take a break?

Should I be keeping the home? And then before you know it, it's like, well, I don't even know if I should take a nap. Can I even start with something small to just make sure I'm taking care of my basic needs at a basic level? And so we have to start with ourselves. And we have to start having more of these conversations so that women, like you said, you saw the rules and you're like, I feel seen. Like, I feel understood. I also feel like, well, dang, why am I? Kind of adhering to some of these rules?

But then you have a rewrite guide. And this idea that you can rewrite the rules on the one hand, I go, well, duh. And on the other, it feels radical. It feels revolutionary. It feels exciting. So I'm curious, how do you walk your clients through that? Well, I feel like I should walk. walk you through it because you did your homework. I did it. You know, I love a little bit of homework.

So you tell me what rule stood out the most and then we'll walk through the framework together. So for me, a lot of them feel like they fall under set the boundaries but be flexible because people will say that and then they'll say you should prioritize yourself care and they'll say make sure you're making, you know, time for creativity or for joy or, you know, don't just work, sunup to sundown. But then if I say I'm not available at that time, the response is, you can make a little time, though. You can squeeze it in, right? And I can't squeeze it in without squeezing myself out, which I thought was the thing I wasn't supposed to be doing in the first place. So I recognize that I'm being told I deserve boundaries, but also the world just wants me to people,

please because it's easier for everybody else. So I see it, but then what do I do? Okay. So the first part of rewriting the rules is to recognize it, right? What is the rule? You've said it. It's about our boundaries, but then I have to be flexible. You're saying it's showing up in your work life and making time for yourself. So that's number one. The second part of it is you're going to question the rule, right? So where did you learn it? Where did you learn that you could have boundaries, but then you still kind of needed to have flexibility. You couldn't be so rigid. Who told you that? Oh, gosh. I mean, I think that that points back to what you were saying earlier. I don't know that anyone ever specifically said it, but I have always felt the expectation

to show up, to do a little more, to be extra helpful, to, you know, clean up after myself. also everybody else. And ironically, there are elements of that that I like about myself. I like being a thoughtful person. I like being the kind of person people can count on. But I can recognize from this stage in my life that the scales aren't balanced, that it's like all the weights are on the helpful side and none of them are really on the help yourself side. Exactly. It's not a balance. Okay. So then the second part of questioning it is, does it still serve you? And it seems like you kind of just answered it a little bit. Pieces of it. You like that helpful piece. You like to be a help to others. And so then once you have those two pieces, we go on to my favorite part, which is

the rewrite, right? We're giving the pen back to the person. You always knew what you needed for yourself. But it's just like, okay, let me give myself the permission to actually see it through. So if you wanted to change this rule, what would you believe instead? I love that. That phrase you cannot pour from an empty cup came up immediately when you said that. How would you rewrite it? Because that, I think, is helpful. I'm not saying something so intense to myself that I won't buy into it. I'm actually saying to the point. To the part of myself that loves to be helpful, you can be, but you actually can't be if you're not also pouring into you. And that's a helpful reminder that instead of saying, I have to give something

up, I'm actually saying I have to do better at balancing the two things. Finding the balance. And the last piece of the framework, which I think is where people get the most of is the practice piece. Right. And so pouring from an empty cup. what does that look like? How do I make sure in my day-to-day practice that I'm filling myself up first before I give to other? You have to start somewhere as well I always tell people. It can be something small. But if you're saying this is the change that you want to make, this is how you want to start living, you have to start showing up in that capacity and you have to be firm. That's the hard part. It's like, okay, I've said I want to do this thing. Do I really want to do the thing? Do I really want to like say it and do it?

Yeah. So the practice is the piece. Okay, I'm interested in this because you're right. And I heard you say it can be something small. And I'll be vulnerable and say normally when I make a decision, you know, when I'm having like a really good energy day, I've read a great book. I've had a good therapy session. I have a conversation like this with you. And I'm like, I'm going to change my life tomorrow. And then I feel like I make a change my life like this list that is way too long. It's too. many new habits and I've been thinking about how to start instituting new practices that almost I wonder if the way to succeed at them is to make them almost laughably small. Like, and I just said this today, so because you got me thinking in advance of our conversation, I was like, I wonder if I could just commit to a 10-minute walk, walk around the block in the morning. Like make my coffee and then go drink it outside on a walk. And just try to do that for the first two weeks before I try to line up 10 other half things. Yes.

Before you try to do all of the things, start so small. And it's not even laughably small. It's just I know myself, right? I want to remind people that you know yourself and you know what you're capable of. Clients always come in and we work on like these ideal self exercises and similar to what you say. they bring me this whole long list of things. Wake up at 5 a.m. I'm going to get my workout and I'm going to drink my green juice.

I'm going to do all these things. I'm like, do you even like green juice? Do you like to? You know what I'm saying? Again, we're pulling from society. We're pulling from what we see to be this ideal thing. And no, you are the ideal. So start with what you actually will do.

And whatever you monitor is what's going to be managed. So I love that. Your coffee walks and you can just have your coffee. It's not before. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. The music you love. I heart radio.

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There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support. And for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide, with an average co-pay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too. Something I know is true for me and so many women I know is that we inherit a whole lot of unwritten rules.

We absorb things from culture and society and messaging. And for us, a lot of them feel contradictory. Be ambitious, but don't be intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself and have a 12-step self-care routine. What? You're supposed to have it all together, but you can't look like you're trying too hard. It makes me feel like my head is spinning.

And the things we see in our feed all day tend to reinforce some of them. I catch myself thinking, well, everyone else seems to be able to do this. Everyone else is keeping up and drinking all the water and checking off everything on their to-do list. And shouldn't I be able to also? I have to remind myself that it's not a zero-sum game. also that I can't compare my insides to everyone else's outsides that I'm seeing online. I would never want that for a friend. So why do I impose that kind of pressure on myself, you know? Those are the

kinds of stories that I think therapy can really help us unpack and then rewrite, which is why I'm excited about this partnership. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average co-pay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the U.S. You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com slash permission dash project to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp, help.com slash permission dash project. I love that you said that, you know, the list, the green juice. It's kind of a wild thing to say, but I feel like part of the reason so many of us make lists like that that are so unhinged is because nobody's ever asked us what we like.

We're just told, do this and you'll feel fill in the blank. You know, I said for years, I just wish I was one of those people who wanted to wake up at six in the morning, have a shot of espresso and go for a row. run. Guess what? I don't like plain espresso. I don't like waking up early. I actually did a sleep study. Turns out my brain is wired for nocturnal hours. I'm one of those 8% of people that needs to go to sleep a little later and wake up a little later. Not that my production schedule cares about that. And by the way, I don't like running. So why is that a goal for me? I don't like it. I like it for other people, but those people actually like to do it. So I had to laugh at, oh, I've put that pressure on myself for so long. And actually what I think I was doing was having the failure of a

self-fulfilling prophecy because I didn't want to do it in the first place. You did not want to do it in the first place. Exactly. So you're putting two and two together. As you can imagine, I send a lot of homework back from my clients because exactly that. It's like you're not setting yourself up for success. Yeah. This is not what you want to do. To help people set themselves up for success as a mental health care professional by recommending more bite-sized changes, like, is that how you help them sort of get past when rewriting

a rule feels uncomfortable at first? Yes, we always start small. And what I like about narrative therapy, it puts the pen back in the client's hands. it gives them that control piece because when we start to kind of adopt these unwritten rules, these expectations, we're just moving the goalposts farther and farther away from anything that even resembles a life that we want. So you have to start small because if you don't, you're going to get overwhelmed. You're going to quit.

You're going to say, you know what? Well, maybe actually I'll just keep things the way they were. Right. And you find yourself in this constant cycle of just unhappiness or living a life that's not on your terms. So yes, we absolutely start small because mentally you have to have those quick wins so that you keep going so that you feel like, oh, I can't change. Oh, look at me. I am doing things that I actually like to do. Then we look up, hey, we're taking these rules.

We're leaving some. And we're actually living life on our terms. One of the most interesting ideas behind this Unwritten Rules project is that women aren't being given permission. And when I first read about it, you know, when we were introduced, I was like, wait, that's so crazy because one of my favorite things to say is you have to write your own permission slips. Nobody else is going to do that for you. And you framed that. You took it a step farther and said, nobody has to give you permission. and you already have it.

And that distinction feels really important. And I'm curious for you, because I know how it made me feel when I read it. And I was like, oh, my God, you're Sunny's right. You know, so why is that distinction so important for you to make with your clients? I feel like so often we give up control so easily. We forget about our free will. We forget about all the choices that we actually get to make.

and those choices can change honestly can change our lives for the better when we remember the autonomy that we have when we remember the capabilities that we have and we don't need anyone else to give us permission to do it if anything this project serves as a reminder that it was already in you right it's just a remembering of yeah I can give myself permission to show up this way or I can give my self permission to let go of this rule or this expectation that's no longer serving me So that's the main thing. Well, and something I find really interesting about that, too, is it's an opener.

You know, it's the sort of idea that reminds you that you have more tools now than you used to. And I think about that even, I mean, when I zoom out, you and I are having a conversation on my podcast, which I got to make because new technology allowed it. And I got to turn my curiosity about people and how they tick into a show I get to do every week. And on top of that being crazy for me personally, you and I met because our podcast works with the nice folks at BetterHelp. And you use BetterHelp, which I imagine as a therapist gives you this incredible tool to be where you want to be, live where you want to live. You get to work with your clients no matter where they are. And like, if you think about, I don't know, 20 years ago, we couldn't have imagined any of these things being possible. And so not only do we have this permission and this agency in ourselves that we have to remind ourselves about,

we have technological resources that actually make rewriting the rules easier than they've ever been for women before. Because we can log on to our computer and have this conversation just like you can log on to a computer and have a session with a client. Like what? Mind blown. Yeah. It's so cool. And I'm curious, you know, for you, obviously you love working with them because you're launching this whole resource through the platform itself. So I'm curious, what are the tools and the resources that my listeners, you know, who hear me talk about therapy all the time and who hear me do the better help, that's HELP.com, you know, reads all the time.

I'm like, how can my folks get access to your resources, your rewrite guide? Like, where do they start? So the first thing I want to say is BetterHelp does such a good job of, first of all, practicing the good work, right? When we say that we believe in better, we truly walk it, we show it in our projects and our partnerships. And so with this permission project, I'm super excited because not only have we created this, wonderful guide to walk you through rewriting your own, you know, set of rules or expectations,

but it's going to be available to everyone, not just our Better Help members. It's going to be a completely free guide. And hello, I'm super excited. We're also providing our 10,000 hours of free therapy for your listeners. I know. Super exciting. I know. Super exciting. No, it's funny. I got to say this because this is crazy. And I've been laughing. Like, I used to, when I first started working on TV, I would. would beg corporations to like do cool initiatives, charitable things with us. And it was always a slog. And when I was talking to the team, literally just about what our ad calendar was going to look like for the next year, I said like, hey, 2026, everything's on fire. Can I, you know, of course I love

working with you guys, but can I give away some free therapy? And they were like, this would be so cool. You know, would you want to talk to one of our therapists? We have this program coming out. I said, yeah, tell me more. When they emailed me back, I expected them to say, like, yeah, we'll give away a code and your first 100 listeners who use it will get, you know, an hour of free therapy. And when I read the email, they said, can we give you 10,000 hours of free therapy? Like, first of all, I blacked out. Second of all, I kind of started crying. I was like, what's happening? So, you know, I know you're not in charge of corporate, but the fact that you were willing to come today. and talk about resources that also, like you said, are for everyone. Like there's no gatekeeping. Anyone who's a client or not can have them. And that you guys offered us not 100 hours, but 10,000 hours of free therapy. Like, I've never lived in a world that's more anxious.

People need it so badly. So just thank you. Thank you for doing it. And to our listeners, surprise, if you've ever felt like you can't do this or you don't have time or you don't have the resources. Today we're giving away 10,000 of those resources, and we're so excited. We are so excited. Where do people go to start?

Like, how do they access the hours and you and the program and the whole thing? The technical stuff. How does it work? The technical, yes, behind the scenes. So everyone that's listening, please go to betterhelp.com forward slash permission project. And there's a hyphen. It's permission hyphen project. Okay.

And we'll put the link in the show notes also, guys. So it's easy to just click on. Exactly. Because we want people to get these hours. We want them to be used. We're all about making the collective better from just a mental health standpoint because it is important.

Beyond important, outside of 2026, just in general, everyone can use these resources. Everyone can get some support and we're happy. We're happy to do it. And I do have a question for you because as we were talking and you were showing kind of like your personal pieces, have a little question. Okay. Okay. So you have had such a unique experience of being able to step into so many different women's lives through the characters that you've played.

Oh my God. Look at you. Sunny did homework. You have questions for me. I have questions. Okay. So I'm curious if any of these women that you have played have, let's see, challenged a rule that maybe you're, were carrying or gave you permission to kind of rewrite a rule in your own life? Yes. Oh, my gosh. I've talked

about this a little bit, but there was a couple of things. You know, I was young when I first started on my first TV show. I was 21. I'd gone to a really little all-girls school. Like, I didn't have an experience at the big Southern co-ed high school with the sports team and the whole thing. That just wasn't my journey. And I remember when I first started to play that character, when I started to play Brooke Davis, she was really bold, she was unapologetic about her body, she was unapologetic about who she wanted to date. I was, and this was 2003, but we weren't having body positive conversations. I was mortified, but I had to do my job and I had to play her. And yes, some of that meant, you know, men old enough to be my dad were writing things for a teenage girl that felt weird to do on TV.

But I was able to challenge certain stereotypes about how a girl should behave because I had to behave in opposite ways on the show. And it was sort of like exposure therapy to challenge stereotypes in some ways good, in some ways not. You know, I've done some therapy about that too. And I think all throughout my career, because of that experience I had, it actually gave me this sort of unlock as an actor because I do exercises with characters where I say, how am I like this person? And how is she completely different from me? And then how do those things sort of connect across the lists?

And it really helps me know the women I play. as though they're women I actually know in my life. And it gives me more of a personal connection to them. And I really do think that I learned that because I had to step into other shoes and make them feel real for me. I love that. And I love that exercise. And it's very similar to our rewrite.

It's like, what can I keep? What do I not want to keep? What makes sense? What can I join together? Yes. I really like that. And now a word from our sponsors. Your favorite radio stations. Everywhere you go.

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Okay, yeah. Let me go through them with you. And I'd be interested to hear like, just give me your gut reaction to them. Oh, like a hot take? Hot take. Oh, I'll give you a hot take. Okay, I love this game. All right.

Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Be ambitious, but stay likable. I hate the word likable. And you know why? Perfectly relates to what you just. asked me about, they always write women as she has to be likable. That character has to be likable.

And I'm like, you never say that about the men in the movie. Why does she have to be likable? Why can't she just be who she is? So I don't like that. Hot take, don't approve. Don't approve. Okay. Be yourself. This is fine. Be yourself, but don't be too much. That drives me crazy, man, because I know for me and for so many other women, we're all paranoid all the time that we're either too much or not enough. And it feels like we're being stretched across this impossible divide. And I don't feel like it's fair. Exactly. Or accept the compliment without feeling the need to like toss one back. Just saying, oh, thank you. That was a hard one for me. I'd always feel like, let me scramble. Let me find something else. Yeah. Just accept the compliment. You know what?

Someone gave me great advice on that. And because I was in that very traditional. habit women get into of like, oh, this, no, or oh, you're so sweet, but. And a friend of mine said, when I give you a compliment and you immediately undo it or you self-deprecate, it's like, I've given you a gift that I picked out and I wrapped just for you. And you're just pushing it right back into my hands. You're not even opening it. You're not even looking at what it is. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, it cuts so deep. That's so good, though. Yeah, it was, it was a really good thing to learn. I'm going to borrow that one. I like that one a lot. Let's see. Ask for help, but don't be a burden. I'm still working on learning to ask for help. So that one, that's a deep

cut. I get it. Take care of everyone else, but make your own needs easy. If that is not just the saran wrap, all the women get packaged in, right? As a therapist and a person, I give myself permission to say, no, my needs are my needs. They don't have to be easy. They don't have to be easy. They have to be neatly packaged and just being comfortable to say it to say what the real need is. I like that, especially when you are a person who people think has it all together, they might want to take care of you too, but not know that you need it. So that's really interesting. You have to just say, hey, I need some help also. Yeah, just I need help. Whatever it is, don't add a butt, don't add an and, don't try to talk yourself out of the, you know, the care that

you just acts for and get really comfortable with those types of conversations. And that's the starting point. Because once you start doing it and people show up for you, then it's like, oh, wow, what was I waiting on? Why did I keep this for myself? So I love that. I work on that one as well. So let's see. Do it all, but keep it together. Everyone I know with a toddler feels that. And I know everybody does it every stage, but it really, it's pretty wild, you know, this idea that we're always supposed to be able to accomplish more. I will never forget, I was working with a client who was very much just beating herself up because she felt like she should be getting more done and she should be able to check off

everything on her list. And she said, you know, we all have the same 24 hours as Beyonce. And I said, we do not because Beyonce has a whole team, a whole corporation to make sure that her 24 hours is spent very differently. You can not hold yourself to that step. We don't have the same 24 hours, right? Sometimes we can't do it all. Sometimes we can do 20%, you know, and we have to give ourselves grace for the days when that's all that we can get through and not beat ourselves up on the other side of it. I really like that. That's important because we do that. This is a good one. Prioritize self-care, but only after everyone is taken care of.

But this is exactly that same kind of thing. Like you're just supposed to be able to do it all, but you have to make sure you're doing it all for everybody else first. And that's unsustainable. Just like we know that we will age better, we will be healthier if we take care of our physical bodies. We have to do that for our brains too. You know, I always call therapy, my brain gym. My mental health care professional is my trainer for this. And that is really important to me. And ever since I reframed it like that for myself, and I started to think about therapy being the gym for my emotional well-being,

I am rigorous. Tuesdays at 9, that's my time. I don't give it up for anything. And if I have to change it because of work, I make sure weeks in advance I shift that, time to another slot because that's for me and it matters and I do deserve to take care of that part of myself. A hundred percent and it's always my soapbox. I always feel like people should prioritize their mental health the same way they do their physical health. Therapy is not a crisis

response like please get a mental health professional on your care team just like your doctors, your dentist, whoever is it's the same thing. So I love that you said that. I hope everyone taking notes. The emotional gym. I tell you what. Get in there. Get in that emotional jail. Yeah. Please. Okay. Ooh, got three more. Okay. Succeed at work, but never at the expense of your personal life. Again, another thing they would never say to a man. I hate that. I don't think that it's fair. I think at the end of the day, I think for all things, if we, I love a pie chart. So stay with me for the analogy. But like, you know, your dinner plate, that circle, that you've got that 100% of your pie chart, if to succeed at this big goal you have at work requires a bigger slice of pie, what that means is

that your personal life is going to need a little more support. And then when you have this achievement, you'll probably be able to carve some of that time back and invest it in your personal life. And I actually think if we thought about it more like a seesaw and less like a fixed requirement of experience, it would be healthier for us. Does that make sense? It would be much healthier because anything in life is nuanced. Nothing is fixed. And so it's unfair to be like, well, I can be successful at work, but then I can't have a personal. Like, that's unfair to say.

Sometimes you have a season where you just have to be heads down because you were trying to. to your point, trying to accomplish something. And that is when you lean on your support system and you let them know what's going on in. So they can share in the load with you, whatever that looks like on your personal life. So I love the pie analogy personally. Great. Mm-hmm. That's good stuff.

I like, I feel special when I get to impress a therapist. I get excited. Very impressed. Two stars, gold stars. Thank you. Speak your mind, but keep the peace. So really don't speak your mind. Right? And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

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One app. No subscription. Always free. Grab the free app. I think if all we're doing, IHard radio app today. I think if all we're doing is keeping the piece, we're actually just, we're writing a permission slip for a repeat of bad behavior

instead of finding a solution. And those are not the permission slips I think we should be writing. Let's speak up early and often so that we can actually have some semblance of peace or balance, whatever that looks like. And that's actually one of the things I think is the best about therapy. Because you can work with your mental health care professional. You can walk through scenarios, talk through scenarios. You can practice.

You can say, I feel really emotionally lit up about this. And I don't know how to broach the subject because I'm afraid I'm going to be like extra. And then you can talk through it and you get to sort of defang that thing. And then by the time you walk in, it's just, you're just having a conversation. So I think it's important to figure out how to address things. And also it's one of the best things you can use your time in therapy to do. You build that muscle. And then you're just a better communicator.

Exactly. Then the conversations are not hard conversations. They're just conversations. I love a good practice moment with a client because then I'm like, get all the catastrophizing out of the way now. Whatever you think is going to happen, let's play it out so that when you actually do it, it's a walk in the park. So, 100, 100%, I love that. All right, we have one more. Okay.

Keep growing, but don't start over. How are you going to grow if you don't give yourself permission to do it all the way? Sometimes I think starting over is incredibly important, you know? You're not going to know until you get there, but sometimes the road you were convinced you were supposed to walk down leads to a dead end. You absolutely have permission to get there and go, not going to stay here forever, turn. around and walk your ass back out and find the next intersection. I think this idea that you can't start over is, I don't mean to be really over the top, but I think it's kind of a death sentence in a way. And I really believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to evolve and grow always.

And I think that that's what's important about having a professional resource as well. And why I wanted to ask for some free hours for my people in general. And now we got five figures of them. So I feel like we're really doing some good work together. We're doing a lot of good work. And I couldn't be happier to even just be here with you having these conversations because I promise you they are so important. And even if we just reach a handful of people, I believe seriously in a ripple effect.

And it'll reach who it needs to reach. and the people will get the help that they need to get. And listen, I couldn't ask for more than that. I think everybody who's with us today should pick one of those rules and decide which one you want to rewrite first. Because I did homework and Sunny did homework. And now you guys have homework, but it's the fun kind. Obviously, please take advantage of the resources

and we'll have the link to get free therapy in the show notes. But now, Sunny, I'm going to turn the question back at you and ask you my favorite question. to ask people, which, you know, I feel like your rules are your questions in therapy, but this is my question that is my favorite of the whole podcast. I'm ready. I love to know when you look ahead at what's coming through the end of the year, into next year, what feels like your biggest work in progress?

Okay, so personally, just in general, my biggest work in progress is navigating change with grace. I am a mom. I am type A. I do, you know, have generalized anxiety. And if you know anyone with anxiety, they love their routines. They love their systems.

They love a plan. You know who could give two, you know what's about my plan? My three-year-old and my six-year-old. And they are changing constantly at a rate where I feel like I'm barely keeping up day in and out because one day they love Godzilla, one day they don't like chicken nuggets anymore. And so I'm like, I'm getting whiplash and I don't like change. So I feel like I'm constantly trying to just

get them to get on board with the routines and the systems and the meal plans. And they're like, mom, I don't want none of that. So for me, being a little bit more graceful about change because me and change are just hand in hand right now. That's my work in progress. I love that. And I think everyone can relate. Thank you so much for coming today. Thank you for being here. Friends at home, if you want to explore the permission project for yourself,

access the free rewrite guide, learn about our very exciting 10,000 hours of free therapy. Head to betterhelp.com slash permission dash project. Correct. Thank you for, Thank you so much. I had the best time. Thank you, Sophia.

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