Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 130: Relative Revenants

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

“Those who respect the elderly pave their own road toward success.” – African proverb https://jeffreymorgan.com.au/

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes today we have our friend Jeffrey Morgan from Sydney Australia talking to people from all over the globe he is a nutritionist physical trainer now leadership and mental health mindset coach winner of the uh 2022 life coach of the year award and you can find him at jeffrymorgan dot a you link in the description below right back to him in two seconds for my part would you kindly like share subscribe tell your friends always need more volunteer dreamers 16 currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent dreams in their meanings by Horace G. Hutchinson, all this and more at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. Full list of all 16 books, audio MP3 versions of the downloadable

audio MP3 versions of the podcast. I'm talking too quickly. I'm going to slow down because we're going to talk to our guests and I don't want to be hyper in the middle of the afternoon here. So Jeffrey, thanks for joining me. It's tomorrow morning your time. Yes, it's nice and early here. good old Oz and obviously time difference, but man, it's a good way to start the day. It is. Yeah. Straight out in the dream. I got really lucky that, you know, you are in early risers.

So that's still late afternoon for me. And that's perfectly. That's perfect. I haven't deteriorated mentally yet. I get tired. So I don't know if you want to say a little bit about what you do and your path, how you got there, how you got to where you are today, that kind of thing. Yeah.

A bit of background. I grew up in one of the most notorious streets in Australia's history. Obviously went down a path and became a byproduct of that area. And went through a lot of custody myself, 18 years in custody, both juvenile justice and corrective services. And 13 years ago, turned my life around and travel to the globe now delivering the leadership mindset and well-being workshops to a billion-dollar companies, organizations, communities, universities, hospitals,

fleets, soldiers and individuals across the globe. So obviously a huge background story behind myself and one that I'm proud of to be able to write a new chapter in the book and I suppose the dreams that come with that lifestyle into the new lifestyle and the passion behind a lot of what I did brought us together today. So I'll sit before yourself and proud of who I used to be, I suppose, and who I've become more importantly in that. journey. Yeah, that's a, that's a big deal. You're not the first person I've spoken to who intentionally sought a redemption arc in a way, you know, to, not just for themselves, change, change their way of life for the better, but now the dog, now the dog wants back up. Come here, butters. Come here. I love that. You want it down. Now he wants up. Right. Yeah. And then the cats laying on the keyboard. There we go. Who did you board. Oh, so cute. So tiny. Go to sleep. Go to sleep.

I got work to do. He just wants to sit in daddy's lap, of course. Yeah, he's a lap dog. So, no, but the idea of, yeah, turning your life around and being a living, living example of that, like, you know, you don't, you're not stuck on any particular path. And where you came from doesn't determine where you're going, you know, and sometimes there's even a benefit to say, you know, if you're into the, respectfully, the biblical mythology, as I look at it, being a, you know, non-believer.

the prodigal son type of things you get out there in the world you have these experiences and now you know more than you did before and you come home and establish yourself differently saying you know because I learned these lessons now I know what not to do and now I can tell other people maybe hey don't do that because let me tell you how that worked out for me so you get to I suppose especially through that journey I was on the streets at 12 years of age just in survival mode and by the end of it I became a bank robber. So the transition in all of that life, the characters that you meet in that life, the intensity of custody and but learning how people operate and the characteristics, the whole lot helped me become who I am today. And you're able to see things

and help people really quickly because you know that the background of why something's happening, the way that it's happening. And that's for me. been a great journey and one that I'm blessed to be in a space of and I don't know obviously if I hadn't gone through that I wouldn't have been as successful as I had. Being able to deal with people and help them see all become the healthiest, happiest, happiest, and most successful versions of themselves defined by them but we just guide them on that little journey. So I've got to be grateful in one way, shape or form and just use the rest of my life to be the best of my life in the way that I can, rather than focusing on who I used to be, I've left that person and chapter behind

and I just move forward into a new dream, literally. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's one of the biggest inspirations, I would say, is the idea of just being a living example of the potential for transformation. And, you know, definitely in your work, that probably helps, what is it? You're not just selling the ideas if you're trying to get into buy a product. Now, technically, that's true. You have a service, but the idea of you need to invest.

You need them to believe transformation is possible and showing how you've done it. That's a powerful point of convincing for someone else doubting their own ability to change. I don't know if you've ever put into that. Yeah, it's all around your mindset. Your mindset is absolutely everything. And your mindset is set based on those of value within your life and the lessons of life that you then take on that you perceive were important to yourself based around what you heard at that point of time, seeing the actions, the behaviours that allow you, as you said, to be or not be that person.

And for us, I think that's not a thing. I definitely know that that's been a huge insight being and going through that our whole motion to understand the human mind on a neuroscience level. And also to see that in real action and probably at its highest intensity within a prison yard, you can't get human behavior at the intensity of a human, yeah, unless you're probably at war, to be totally honest. And it's a really amplified environment that you can see just the slightest movement, thought, even a thought, you can literally feel that within the air.

And I suppose that's, you bring that out into the public arena. And that becomes something that helps you identify something with somebody that wants, sat within emotions, trauma, stress, some goals, dreams, aspirations, and really unpacked that, what I call their invisible backpack as quickly as possible. And, you know, you think about even these dreams that people have. Same principle, there's these invisible backpacks that they're sitting with wondering what I think like that. And subconsciously, it's something that, you know, they're carrying underline that they do what I'll unpack.

And, you know, for us, that's just been a great tool to be able to access and use them. The mindset is where, you know, your operating system, think of it like software for a computer and what how you think you'll behave and act comes down to how you're built. And if you're built from destruction, which I was as a kid, I had to reconstruct that whole sort of scenario and now come for myself to be who I am today. And if you can do that, then no one can come to me. say, hey, Jeff, it's impossible because I'm living proof that it is possible. And that gives them hope and strength to continuously move towards who they truly want to be. Yeah, definitely.

Those are all very key elements of, say, the transformational process. When you talk about being aware of yourself in different environments and watching yourself respond as a, what I'm trying to say, like is a synergistic effect of where you're at and where you've been. And the assumptions. A lot of it comes down in my mind being it more on the archetypal and mythological side of things is the stories we tell ourselves about who we are and what's happening around us and what a phrase did, you know, one of the most important things you can know is what story you're in and what character you're playing. And then that gives you a lot of insight of like, oh, this again, you know, and sometimes it's a personal story. And sometimes

it's those archetypal stories that keep coming back. So I don't know if you're You've had, yeah, it sounds, sound like he had something to say. I'm talking over you. We play a game here in Australia. It's called Spotto. I don't know if they played in America. And it's basically spotting the yellow car. Once you say, all right, especially as a kid, you play it more so.

And then obviously with your niece's nephews and so forth. But in general, Spotter was spot the yellow car. And what happens, your brain, that rectically activating system, then becomes. almost like a horse or greyhound chasing that rabbit and in general what it is your focus then goes down this one lane and everything that you think about is basically from this r a system focused on that one alignment in the same principle whether it's these dreams that we have and when i say dreams even in our bed what it starts to come back to you and you're like why did i dream about that what was that thought how did that come about and people have subcont with it's you know attached to the subcontractors

that are subconscious of maybe a goal dream or aspiration that you've had around life in general. But in general, some people having these dreams that are just like, why did that come about? Where did it come from? And I think once you understand how the human brain works, and as I said, the mindset behind that and the building of those, or the building blocks of those thoughts, then you start to become, as you said, very conscious towards the actions that you truly want within your life. And once, you know, you always hear about this manifestation or these goals, write out your goals, put them in a place where you can see those. It is this RAS system directing you, almost like a laser guided missile towards its location. And, you know, the easiest way we think about it, I'll get people to think about it, is we go from one location to the other.

And we've never been there before. We turn on a GPS system. The human personality and reality is from your mindset. and what you turn on from your A to B location and the focus in amongst that on that journey. And you'll find people that are lost or sort of not feeling or living the life they truly want. It's because they don't have that little focus towards that one thing within their life. They haven't really been truly aligned to that. They've thought it that they've never actioned it.

And this is where these dreams come out and literally play a role within people's lives. For sure. Yeah. No, and it did say in the idea of writing it out. I think there's a particular magic in getting something out of your head and onto paper manifesting in the world somehow. Taking some positive physical action a step. We metaphorically, we say steps towards a goal, but it's, you know, that's literally how we walk across the room in the morning, you know, to put her pants on. Exactly that. You think subconscious, you think about walking across the room as an example. or I might have to go to a location, but then the conscious action is to start walking towards that location. So the same principle, your goals in your head, you take that subconscious out,

you put it down on paper, and now you're starting to walk towards what you actually are thinking about getting out within your life. And that's something that is very important for people to understand. You can think it constantly, but as long as you don't action it, you'll just leave it where it sits, and then it becomes just a dream.

and by the end of your life you end up living with a lot of regret about the dreams that you once wish you had action so that would be my biggest advice to everybody especially on this podcast these dreams that come to you if they have some full of consciousness that you want to act upon right amount and start to move towards those because the last very short and you want to make sure that those 86,400 seconds you get every single day action based around what you want to get it a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard, I can't remember where I heard it, but the, but the idea that, uh, they asked folks on their deathbeds, you know, what they regretted most and, and very few people regretted the things they did. They usually regretted things they never did.

I always wanted to do that thing. I never did it. And it's like, yeah, I get it. Because it, sometimes we do things. We think, oh, would it be great? And we do it. And we're like, I was okay. That wasn't everything. I built it up to be in my mind. Sometimes you need to have those experiences too where you're like, well, now I've, now I've, now it's not. longer a tantalizing mystery that'll never be solved. I've solved it and I saw it wasn't for me. You know, uh, so at least doing those, giving yourself the, the opportunity to explore and actually doing the exploring is a big deal. Love that. And just being you, the best, like, the best version of yourself is the one that you truly want to live within. And that's not me

telling someone. You need X, Y, Z to live a great life. Yeah. biggest to everybody's make sure that you're living the life that you truly want. Some people love the financial materialistic side. Some people like the inner peace, quality of life, happiness side. And that could be walking beach, having your pet or whatever it may be, and having just enough money to get by and going for hikes every single day. No one's right or wrong. One thing I did, you know, what you touched on about the regret,

my mother had leukemia. And at the front of the hospital during that time of her. treatment with cancer. There was the terminal ward people would walk outside. And I was 18 at the time and I would talk to these people and I'd asked them two questions. And the first one was if you had one bit of advice to me, what would you give me around life?

So, and I've got these huge chunks. You can imagine compressions of all their knowledge and they've said, this is the one piece I would give to yourself. But the same thing, what was the one thing you regret most in your life? and I'd ask this question when I was 18 and they all said exactly that. I wish I'd gone to this country. I wish I'd started that business. I wish I'd asked that person to marry me or whatever it was.

So that huge regret behind your thoughts or your dreams that never got action. So for those out there, and my mother had cancer for seven years, so I was constantly at this hospital. When I say that she was in and out of hospital, but each time we were there, we're definitely chatting to these people at the front they'd come out sit out smoke just get some sunlight or whatever it may be but and they'd all be hooked up to machines and so forth as they come out and i think that made me realized when i started to hear about these same conversations you know these interviews they'd done

with elderly people and the regret was of what they hadn't done within their eyes to go out and grab those dreams that come up into your head take them out and make those subconscious thoughts become conscious actions because last very short and you want to live it on your terms. Yeah, definitely. I think that's, uh, that's an interesting perspective too of, of like letting people say in the audience know. It's like, what is a, what does a clinical therapist do? What does a life coach do or what is a business consultant do?

All, all of these things are very similar in a lot of ways. It's like, we don't come in telling you what you should want. Like we don't tell you what your goal is, but we, uh, hopefully, like, if you're coming from a therapist's perspective, it's usually, hey, I want this problem to go away. But then sometimes with the life coaching, it's like, I want to get closer to my goal. The goal, the problem, all of this stuff is identified by the person's unique to each person. And then the steps. And then we got, you know, me and everyone in the same kind of line of work has a bag of tricks

towards how do we move in that direction in a way that works for you in your situation to accomplish the goal in the way you want to accomplish it? Because we might have two people that say they have the same goal to to travel to a particular place, but it's like, well, why? What do you want to do when you get there? What is it about that experience that's meaningful to you? So how do we maximize your readiness to begin the process, but also to appreciate what it is when you get where you're going? What is what is success for you? So, yeah, and that's the same type of thing I bring to the dream interpretation.

It's like, I don't, the answers are not in me is what I say. Of course it's not. It's your dream. It's your vision and experience. And I don't have a particular outcome in mind. Other than hoping to offer suggestions that make sense to you in a way that you go, that, that seems reasonable. That seems likely. That feels correct.

Correct. You know, so that's, I think it's a tremendous similarity of this. And it's all about, yeah, helping people see themselves and understand themselves and where they're out in the world and the people around them better. And sometimes dreams are one of the best ways to do that because it's this raw, unfiltered look at your. thoughts as they are rather than put through oh should I be thinking that or there's no doubt or second guessing it's like this is the thought here it is look at it absolutely it doesn't even mean it's necessarily true just I thought this once for a moment this this thought passed to my mind and it it appeared in these symbols so yeah I said a lot there sorry you know that's no I

think you touched on some great stuff the gaps in between what people don't know that's where a lot of coaches, mentors, guides, whatever you want to call us, are able to plug into because we deal with, we've had 700,000 people through the last four years and through the ongoing program. And that helps us identify a lot of patterns of behavior. And obviously, my background and past and the life that I lived in the industry that I went into, the health and fitness industry, really, there was a whole heap of patterns a baby that I could then grasp and plug into people's gaps that they wanted out of life.

And as you said, that's we're just the guide to help compress knowledge. So we shorten the period of time. We give that knowledge to you as a gift. So instead of you researching something for five years, we've done it for yourself and made able to point you in that right direction really quickly. And I think, yeah, that's helped people live unlimited to the life. styles and lives. And I think that's what life's about.

If we can compress knowledge and say, hey, instead of me doing five years of work of research and then going down this pathway, someone's already done that research for five years and they jump on and say, and YouTube's a great space, you know, presses that we never had access to before in our lives from the best universities across the world or lived experience. Someone that's done it for, you know, 30 years. we can look at a lot

and there's a lot of on a financial level people that have become billionaires, millionaires that never finished school why was that what could we learn from those people and I think once we do that

a lot of the time and this is what I was alluding to it came from a dream the fact that you and I are talking on a platform someone had that dream to say hey I wonder if we can connect people and I want to make this happen

and yeah that should be be a huge, especially on your platform, a message to everybody that listens to this, to go out and action your dream as crazy as they might seem, imagine the person who said, I'm going to put two people together to be able to talk through a screen on the other side of the planet, and someone would have said, you're dreaming. Yeah, no, for sure. And that's, I was, I'm, so I'm editing and doing the simultaneous audio recording for my 17th release pretty soon. And I'm being reminded of these stories of, you know, so the telegraph, do do do do do and SOS. Do do do do do do.

Morse code. Apparently, the solution to how to translate the English alphabet into dots and dashes came to SFB Morse in his sleep. And he woke up from a dream saying, I have the solution to this problem. I couldn't solve while I was awake. And there's so many stories throughout it. I'm getting this whole historical education on how many people have gone to sleep with a problem thinking about it and dreamed the answer and woke up and it worked

and they're like whoa how do we do that it's and it's something that we couldn't accomplish by by brute force of attention conscious attention it just wasn't going to happen we had to actually shut down and just let whatever background process was running let it percolate and then eventually woke up in his coffee in the morning uh that is that's amazing experience huge tip that's a huge tip because i've done that many a time. And when you think about it, and some of you, you ask people, they have these thoughts in the shower quite often. And it's because of space where the shower creates this emotion of the water's running, you're feeling relaxed. It's sort of almost like I've got in this space where I can,

yeah, this is my private space as such. And I'd say that to anybody, whether I've had it many of times hiking where I've gone out and taken a notepad and whilst I'm hiking these thoughts behind these actions that I wanted to take within my own life because I'm so calm I'm so relaxed I'm connecting to just the being of on this planet without stimulation other than the natural environment my mind is actually restless and you know they always say you'll never get a a good night's rest with a restless mind so I think that's something that for people in general once they do lay down and they've calmed down that thought around oh that's my solution there's been many a times where i've worked about three a m and gone i need to

write this down and i literally have a not pad on bed um and i do that usually before i go to sleep but then if i wake up during the night i'll write it down quickly because that little solution came to me and it's almost like someone's coming through and saying hey he's the gift of the solution. Yeah. And that's your family, whether that's, yeah, who knows where that comes from, but it just comes within from that dream that you're having at that moment. Yeah, that was a very actually ancient conception of dreams is that they were sent by the gods,

their visions communicated by different external powers. They even thought of imagination that way. Like Socrates talked about his dime on, this little voice he called it. I don't think you heard voices, but the, the, A lot of people say their conscience, whatever speaks to them internally and says, this is what you think, this is what you feel, this is what you believe is right or good or true. But that's, wow, that's so many great ideas in there. The idea of, so again, getting this is historical conception of how the evolution of the understanding of sleep and dreams has come about. You talked about shower thoughts.

There's something very powerful about being in a sensory experience that is, very different. I mean, we don't spend 23 and a half hours a day in the shower and get out for half an hour. We're in the shower for maybe 10, 15 minutes. So it's a very uncommon experience to our usual tactile sensations puts us in a bit, I think, of an altered state of conscious. Now, we're also in a tiny little echo chamber and the water's running. So there's, there's all these things adding up to almost put us in a trance like state. And then we're doing physical activities with our hands, our attention, our conscious focuses, watch the pits. scrub the hair, rinse and repeat. The rest of the brain is just floating. It's almost disconnected. We're thinking about anything or nothing. And that's where we get those shower thoughts. And so in these older books, they talk about being in a state of abstraction,

where we're, they're using that word when I think they mean distracted. They mean the opposite, almost the opposite of distraction where distraction is you can't focus on what you want. The abstraction is a little bit more, not focusing on anything, except what you're immediately doing. almost like doing a repetitive, any kind of repetitive task.

We get in a rhythm, a zone, an altered state of consciousness. And then we get these thoughts. I think that's what's happening in our sleep too. We go to bed with these ideas and we turn off the external world. So now we're in a state of complete abstraction where the only thing there is our thoughts as we watch them flow, like a stream of consciousness. And that's what I very, as a very real advice, I tell people to sleep on it. And I don't mean that like, oh, just give it some time. I mean, literally go to sleep.

And hopefully, I can't say how many problems I've, I didn't know the answer to yesterday. I woke up today. I know what to do now. I don't remember having a dream, but something got solved in my sleep. I have a new perspective today. It's something that was clear to me now that I could not see yesterday, no matter how hard. I could have stayed up all night and worried over the problem.

But I solved it. Solved it in my sleep. And it happens all the time. And it's all down to the literature behind that mindset and how you start thinking about a million things, racing at once. And the easiest way to explain this to people is when you're driving a car, your only focuses the road in front of yourself. But what ends up happening in life, we're driving,

and all of a sudden, you know, the kids are over here distracting us, now I've got work wanting this report. And your mind's going left, right and center, around all these different components. Oh, I want to action my goals. dreams. What about me? And oh, now, don't forget my partner, oh, we've got some pets as well. And you can see, if you break those into percentages, there'd be 15% over here, 18 over there. And your mind's racing 100 miles an hour. And once you lay your head down to rest, you finally have this sleep. And as you said, these thoughts come through and all these dreams come through

and all of a sudden your actions become your reactions within your life. And that's where, if people are in a space and it's a huge recommendation to all my clients or say go and literally whether it's meditation whether you find a spot I can meditate while I walk literally and I'm getting this zone where I connect with nature and I literally these things come out and I grab my notes within my phone and I just put what's come out of my rest, restful mind or mind that is rested and allow myself to then step into a more conscious space because I've been able to settle

that down and we live in a hyperstimilist society where constant noise we live next to a construction site here in the middle of the city in Sydney and it is constant that's out the front and you become so used to that the potential

of dreams during the day do do do do do do do yeah the other thing your dream is it Is the crane not working, the jackhammer not working? So, you know, should get a bit, me a piece. But in general, that's where, you know, people do have to think if your mind is like that jackhammer,

how are you ever going to sit down and be able to unpack what you've dreamt about and think about it? Yeah, for sure. And then something occurred to me while you were saying that too is like meditate while walking. And some people go, well, isn't meditation when you're saying, you sit still and quiet and you're supposed to like breathe and do nothing. I'm like, yes. And you can meditate while walking and you can meditate while doing a crossword puzzle. And, you know, like, or in the shower. It's, uh, and that's, that's why important too is that different methods might work better for different people. If you find you cannot quiet your mind

by just sitting cross-legged on the floor in an empty room, then don't do that. Don't torture yourself. If you need to go for a walk, go for a walk. If that clears your head, done. There's no right or wrong way to get those. You know, if you're not hurting anybody, you can do pretty much anything to get your head straight to empty your mind. People sit in, you know, sit by the ocean. Some people watch the sun come down. Some people sit on the edge of a mountain. Some people do it while they're hiking.

However, you can really disconnect from the current world and reconnect with your inner world. That's where you start to really think about, you know, life. and I think people have these epithynies in these moments where this, hey, this is what I want out of life and this is, it came to me when I was on this walk or while I was by the ocean, I seen dolphins come up and it reminded me of the dreams that I had or whatever it might have been.

So as you said, there's no right a way wrong, right a wrong way. And the biggest thing is to be conscious of your thoughts and a lot of us think stuff, but we don't action things. and to everyone out there, how many dreams in real life have you had around a goal or dream or aspiration? But your dreams, whilst you sleep, what are they related to them? What are the thoughts around them?

Are they subconsciously linked to those dreams that you have within real life about what you want to do or who you want to be within your life? And that consciousness lets you, as you said, be to do that. You have to be in a state of peace and where. that happens for you could be by a lake fishing could be i don't know where it is but i know yeah i went diving recently with sharks and whilst i was down there i felt like it was just it was so quiet it was so serene and as much as the sharks were swimming by i was like you know is this what the afterlife was i had this vision yeah i was down i was almost dreaming in this meditated type state whilst I was swimming at the same time

and I just, you know, disconnect from the busyness of the world or was inside an aquarium within a mall in Dubai. So, or a hotel, I should say, within Dubai. And, you know, you've got people looking at you while you're doing this dive and my own thought was just this inner piece of the quietness, the stillness of this moment. And I'm like, is this what it will be like, so serene and yeah as said let your dreams maybe take you to a space that you never thought about

and is there any connection to those dreams and whatever you do don't ever let anybody tell you that your dreams goals aspirations or actual dreams don't matter because if you know whether it's on a financial level a life level a business business level just the amount of times people have been shut down and said your dreams aren't relevant. And where they've then taken that dream that they've had at night, action something on the back end of it and created the life that they want.

Definitely. Well, I've been trying to keep an eye on the clock here too. I know we're about halfway to your time limit. So, speaking of dreams, if you were ready, do you want to launch into that one you had to share with us today? Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you pierce the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his dreamscapes program features real dreamers, gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions.

New Dreamscape's episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks, highlighting the psychological principles which inform our dream experience and much, much more. To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms, and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon,

featuring the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. Yeah, look, I had a dream. I would have been in 2000, and it was a very vivid dream.

2000 I'd say 2003 slash four and it was about my mother my grandmother during those times that I've shared was a very

shiny yeah beacon in within my life right of education knowledge sharing and yeah had a huge influence on my life my mother great nurture and a beautiful lady both had passed away

and I was living in Melbourne at the time which is for those that don't know Melbourne's about eight hours drive from Sydney. And I was living down there for work at the time and sleeping at a three-story house at split level type house. And I was sleeping upstairs and something woke me up. It's like, you know, when you feel a presence, if you've had a pet, you know that they walk by

and you sort of feel them even though you don't see them, you know, that they're there. and you look down and the pets there or something like that's happened, you know, maybe a person walking by yourself. And I had that presence feeling that someone was at the house. And I opened, like in my, I opened my sleep. That sounds weird, but I opened myself up out of the sleep whilst I was still asleep. And I was like, I know you're there. And they were both giggling and laughing.

And it was these mist of figures that, there wasn't a human it was this elongated version of a human you know when you draw a natural ghost and whether that was my vision or what a ghost was it was this long and that

their legs were more like an an arrow meeting together I suppose and their arms were the same but it was as they moved it was just it was like a mist it was like bit of rain all put together

and they're like oh he knows we're here and then they were laughing giggling and they were sort of hiding and like don't scare him you freak him out and I came through the first level and I could literally feel the presence of both of I couldn't tell it was my mother or grandmother

my vision after it was that it was those two and they were coming back to check on me but they came up each of these levels and as they come up I could feel their presence even more so as they got closer and closer. And because I didn't know, I was my grandmother or mother, I was a bit sort of like,

what is this? What's coming towards myself? And I literally, they come up and the intensity of their presence got heavier, but they kept giggling and they were laughing and saying, not laughing, but saying, you're going to wake him up.

And it was almost like they were just checking. in and that's why I do believe it was my mother and grandmother. But by the time they got to the top level in my bedroom, they were looking and saying, he's looking, he's trying to look. And I was, at the time, I was face down, sleeping. And I still remember. And I felt like I couldn't turn myself around, but they were at the door, and I could feel the presence of them being at the door.

And I think that dream happened to me not only then in 2003, 2003, 2004, but it's happened. many at times where I've had the presence of this dark shape, elongated figure that is made up of all these rain droplets. That's the best way of putting it. They can sort of move. And as it moves, the droplets follow it as a shape. And it does have the head. It does have the arms, the body, the legs, but very pointy on the arms, work very, very, pointing and that's happened to me since I was a kid through to yeah to this point and it's it's

always something that um was I'll never forget that dream it was very that one was probably the most vivid of all those dreams and the presence and the the energy of something happening and if you've ever been in the presence of anything happening whether it was good or bad in your flight or flight system alarm was going off my alarm it was like a a nuclear bomb alarm. It was like literally very present, very loud, very, the feeling was that they were there. And then something, I was trying to get myself up. And my partner at the time was, I was making these and was, ah, ha, ha, ha, ha. And she actually woke me up, I spun around and then looked at the door and that's how present that was. And not long after that,

that. I had two hours whilst driving out on country roads in Australia. Middle of the road, I had to swerved both times. And these hours, when I looked it up, it said that you could sort of see through things and not see through wars, but see why things were happening. And I sort of just, I thought that was quite strange to happen just after it. So it's, yeah, our culture here, I'm a proud Aboriginal man in a Australia. And we have our, you know, in general, everyone has their religion for us. We have our dream time and there's these dream time stories. And I think to me that to put those together and understand the meaning of the owl with what I saw. It's just something that's always intrigued me as to why it happened and where it came from and who it was and what it was. Oh, yeah. Very cool. We presented me with a. great story I always love these I mean it's a true experience and so it's always fascinating

just here what do people experience so gathering data every time I talk to someone is like what is happening here what is this thing and there's a lot of ways to to approach it's number one it's an older dream and you said it also came out it's kind of a recurring dream or at least the themes certain elements from it are coming back that certainly the missed mislike persons that but then there's also so there's the and then of the uniquely Aboriginal perspective, which I hadn't thought about, I hadn't even thought to ask. But since I don't deal with that realm of things as much, it's not the first place I go to with these. I usually go to what's happened in your life.

Why would your image, what would this imagery mean to you if it was just being generated by your brain? But that's, thinking back to it too now, like I look at it. And I had, you know, the vision, as I said, with the hours. And if you look them up, two hours, seen two hours. And literally, I thought it was a rock in the middle of these country roads. And I'm talking to Albaqa Australia. You're driving on, you see what you think is a rock. I literally went around this hour.

And then I went, that wasn't a rock. What was that? So I reversed back, I'll reverse back around the hour. And I didn't realize what it was. And then pulled up, had the light shining on it. Country roads you can see from miles if a car was coming. Late at night and I'm looking

and I jump out and look and I'm like wow unbelievable that's an hour I filmed both of those episodes I still got those on my camera and I think to me I look not long after that I had changed my life around so I went from the destructive

human being that grew up with the habits and rituals of the environment that I was in into this new life and I almost feel like my parents, or my mother and my grandmother, and my father had passed away at this time as well, had come back. Actually, I like my father hadn't passed away at that point of time.

And that's why I think that presence of my mother and father, sorry, my mother and grandmother, came back and it was like they had one opportunity, and they almost, I don't know, did they come back and passed on something to help me via all, away from who I was and into who I became. And was that because I did. I did change.

When I was in Melbourne, I was up to these good behaviors. And I shifted out of and moved into the new version of myself after that experience. So was that the changing of the guard, I suppose, at that point in time? And did they come with a message of it's time? And it's time to change. I don't know. Yeah, that was one of my first thoughts is when you mentioned that dream was very old and that you'd take taking a turn in your life at one point away from

things you didn't want to do anymore. I wondered would this dream be from around that time? And I was thinking how to relate it to it. So usually what I do with these like to get a, get the best psychological understanding of as we go back through it again. I try and pull out a little more detail and have you just tell it again, but slower and help me see it through your eyes, that kind of thing. So we might do that for a little bit. But I did, before we even jumped into that, I wanted to get into the Aboriginal understanding of the Dreamtime concept, because I'm a lot more familiar with different, say, Western European or even Eastern philosophical approaches, even some Native American perspectives. But how do, how, how is it conceived from your

spiritual perspective? What is your understanding of what Dreamtime is and how it, help humans access it, what it means to us? Yeah, it's usually based around the area or region that you're from and that has something to do. So if you were from the ocean, it would have something to do with the ocean and how that was formed or a lake, how that was formed as such. And these stories are more about how the land and for us is to be nurtured and make sure we look after. and the reason or the being behind these stories are more about how we as a community, especially, say mine,

our dreamtom stories relate to our totem, which is for me what's called Mullian, which is the eagle. So that Mullian for myself is a story of one of strength and one of obviously being able to see over everything that's before ourselves, I suppose. That's basically the easiest way to, to get people to understand that you got a view from the sky to be able to look and nurture our land and where i was from

i'm eight hours out of sydney where my family is originally from although i grew up in the concrete jungle of the city which it was redfern um and as i said running rights with police and so forth so two totally different types of disconnect but you look at the totem of our tribe which is the the eagle and that for us is something of us and these things stories are formed around based on usually animals within the area, the shapes of the region and how they came about. And the stories are related to how we can protect. It's almost like you think about a kid story as we grow up and how we, you know, Little Red Ridinghold or whatever it may be and how that connects to us being kids and the lesson behind that story.

The same principle applies to us as Aboriginal people. Yeah. So is it a conceptualization of dreaming as a separate reality or separate place that we have access to? Does the soul leave the body to travel there? How does that work? Yes. It's more based around, as you said, more around that little perception of that region and the reality of how it was shaped and formed from the vision of those that were there before ourselves. and that story is then carried on between generation to generation. And for us even in that concept, to be able to reverse and rewind and understand why that came about would be that where did that dream come from? Where did it start and how did it start?

We can only live with what we've been passed on. And I suppose, you know, I'd love to have known where that did, for our own tribe, where did it start, how did it come about? For us, we've got, like, as the example, with the emullion, we've got this massive, and I'm talking top of the tree, almost prehistoric type, gigantic nest that lives within our region. And it's very unique. And that's where our stories sort of stems from. Was that something that was factual that sort of got intertwined with something,

or is it how we as Aboriginal people? Because the thing is, it's across, we've got 500 different language groups, 250 different tribes, and every one of those tribes has a dream time story that is relatable to their region. So it wasn't something that was, you've got to think about,

it has to have been something that was, how did they travel back then when there was no travel, let's say, to go from one side of Australia to the other, it took days on. days and days but yet we all had these dream time stories so how did they come about and were they from dreams were they from and from what we've learned it was from the region and how that was shaped was that something that was seen was it something that was dreamt of um yeah we can only

go from what was passed on and yeah to me that's just to know that all these different tribes all across australia long long distances had these different visions, where did it come from? Where did these dream time stories come from? Very powerful. Yeah, for sure. And those are definitely like unexplained things where you just go, it doesn't seem possible.

It doesn't seem physically possible in some ways. You're like, so what are we left with? It's like, how does this even happen? That keeps my mind open to lots of different possibilities. Who knows? So one of the, as much as I am, say, maybe rootless. in some ways of not following a particular tradition or having a strong one that I identify with.

I get to, I get a bit more of that, that Eagle's eye view in a sense of all the different traditions around this concept and how, and then I can start seeing sometimes the similarities between them too. It's like, well, no wonder we all came to these similar conclusions in different places because it makes sense for this reason. And here's proof that it makes sense because all these different people had

the same experience of it. That's always fascinating to learn about that. It's also good to get your personal understanding of it because even from say a purely irrational scientific point of view, I can say, okay, well, this understanding of dreams and why they are meaningful is definitely going to inform your dream experience. So it could be both at the same time. And again, we can just look at it from what I'm able to do, which is like I couldn't give you the mystical meaning if I tried. I don't, I don't know. I have no special powers. But it's important that you believe it has that element to it,

that that's a possibility that you would that and so that that understanding is going to inform your dream experience in general so um if we go to the the this this particular dream itself you had the experience of being in the house that you were actually living in at the time so you weren't transported to another place so that that you go ahead having those dream time stories really quickly you think back to those and i think how calm we would have been they were living in nature there's no real stress other than finding food I suppose shelter and just the ability to really connect to the subconscious and maybe make it a conscious thought or an action or what was seen so I think it's just magical and the fact that you know yeah 250 different

tribes have 250 different totems and dream time stories unbelievable it is yeah well and then the idea that we go look through um we know that animals dream like we can see a dog kicking and twitching and barking in their sleep so you don't have to be human to dream and there was a time before humans were human we were closer to animals and we were dreaming then just we've dreamed longer than we've been self-aware in in in a lot of ways um so then the idea of then we became self where that when we close our eyes and before we wake up in the morning, something happens. We have these experiences. And so we've been telling ourselves stories about what dreams mean.

But we used to think it came from the gods and maybe people still do or dreams literally from God or from, you know, that our soul leaves our body and goes traveling. These are a lot of beliefs that have been sustained for generations and centuries. So for you. And this is where I start. dialing in stuff and, you know, I look at, okay, what's the setting? Where was this setting? This is set in your home.

It's very close to home. Like, it's in my real house. It's a very realistic setting. It's not a fantastical setting. You weren't in a, you know, in a castle on the moon or something, you know. So this is like a very practical or pragmatic or realistic approach to this situation in this, in this experience. And you had, you had the feeling. of a presence. So you also had, you also had the experience of waking up in the dream.

Like, and that's, yeah. So I was conscious of them being there. And I was like, I was, what's the word in my head saying, I know you're here. And they're like, he knows where he. So I wasn't saying that. I was thinking that. I was like, who's here? And I could feel their mystical arms wrap around the corner and almost look and you can imagine you've got these two dark mystical shapes just looking around the corner in a dark house and whilst he slept it was scary slash creepy and it was almost like at some point they said

no don't be scared we're not here to scare you we're relaying a message maybe we're carrying something of that nature and you know to me um the presence of that feeling was so deep that I could feel their arms wrap around the wall if that makes sense so they put their hands on a wall look around the corner and I could literally feel that and said that is real that person or those people are right there and the closer they the more they came up each of these levels of the house I was like they're coming and as they moved they didn't walk they sort of almost lined across the floor if that was the way of putting it their movement was fluid and i was just like what is this and

what are they in yeah who are they in it's very good definitely well that's yeah so you have this experience of being in say your actual home you were living at the time and absolutely did you have a conscious, a dream experience of waking up in your dream. Does that make sense? Yes. You felt like you were sleeping and you woke up and what you felt like woke you up was detecting a presence. Yeah, I woke up. I felt them come through the front door. So that was what woke me out. It was almost like they pushed through my soul. It sounds crazy. No, no, no, that's exactly right. When they were through the door at that point in time,

it was like, like wind going past yourself. Probably that's the best way I could describe. It was like wind went through my body. And it woke me up into the presence of, hey, someone's here. Yeah. And that's where that little feeling of being, being present was there. my dog's in the background. He said, don't forget about that.

No, no, no. Exactly what you said. This sounds weird, but it felt like they were, you know, entering me in a way. But when they enter the house and there's a very, there's a long tradition of that going back before. But Freud was one of the first modern, modern doctors to point it out is that we often conceptualize or identify ourselves with the house, that our body houses our soul in a way. So in the way that in the way that our body inhabits a house, the soul inhabits our body. So there's so when things and we think of things as entering us, we definitely, we put food in as fuel. But there's also the concept of ideas entering us and changing us, the force of expectations.

We feel it tangibly. There's a lot of great things like that. So the idea of becoming aware of something as it enters you, that physical boundary that, kind of metaphorically represents my, my, my, my internal experience from the external world. We think of things as entering our consciousness. We, we become aware of something new for the first time. So a lot of these things. And so you've got this representation of, and you didn't know what they were initially in,

or at any point in the dream, really. It was only after when you woke up, you're like, oh, that was, that had to be them. Oh, no, it was more probably It was during it was more What is this And there's no thoughts about my mother-grandmother Okay It was probably not long after I'd finish my last sentence

Seven years and I'd sit there and I'd think about that dream And I start during that time Someone had come out of segregation I walked out and a bloke said hey, do you want to do a university degree? And I was like, what, he said, yeah, mate. And I was like, well, what's available? Right.

I think. I got time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a mean. So might as well make good use of it, right? So I think in that period, I started to look back and say, yeah, think about, what was that dream about? What was it that happened to me during that dream? And I'm starting to transition out of this world.

my whole, it was like I related to and I think about it and this is why I'd say that possibly it was my mother and grandmother because it was like they came and swapped, as you said, my house. I had this old house that was built around being destructive, it was toxic, it was dangerous, it was angry or all of it. And they came in and they almost, I don't know, did they come in and give me a new shell to a new housed as was a karma, a version of them together. Because I did, I shifted from that point. I started to move away from the old version of myself.

And was it, you know, the old meaning to the new meaning, as you said, that this house, our body is a house. We house our thoughts, behaviors, actions to the life we want. And as you said, it's dictated by those that are around us. And people, you know, say, oh, this consciousness, it's rubbish and I'm like if someone stands right next you do you feel something without

them ever saying anything and then you turn to your side and you realize that someone's standing next to you or it's a dog or a pet or an animal or such or feeling of something hey you know maybe a car that was coming on that you hadn't heard

or something of that nature that you feel and that's what what I say to people is consciousness when you connect to it and you always hear people that meditate have these out-of-body experiences because you are. You're in this space of peace where your mind is at rest and that's where you think best. And they always say, you know, you try and do that in a business environment where it's 100 miles an hour constant.

People get great at it. Don't get me wrong. But in these moments, sometimes when they go home and they go, hey, I've got the idea, I went home and, you know, it's come back into the office today and I've got these what he thought, what he's feelings or thoughts around what I've thought about overnight and all of a sudden they've come to fruition and I think that's something that people got to understand the consciousness of being able to be at absolute peace and I think at that point of time in my life I was away from Sydney so I grew up in Sydney I was away from everybody I was down in a space where as much

as I was still in that destructive world I had a court case pending at the time I think I was just in a space where I was able to really be at peace for the first time in a long time since I was a kid. Ran away at 12. By this stage, I was 36. 24 years, I'd be in constantly. Yeah, I'm wanted by police on the run at times. And my mind was never settled. You go to jail and the prison door opens and your mind stimulus is just survival for the day and getting through another day. and I think this moment was almost the changing of the garden

that's why I related to my mother and grandmother coming and saying hey and I feel like that was probably the last time I've seen those versions I'd seen versions singular versions of that same thing growing up and was that people that had passed on and come back and sort of um, I know, passed on some form of their spirit to be the strong self I am today, to pass on to other people into the world. Yeah, there's a, there's a long tradition of that too in these historical books I'm editing of visions of the dead come back. And it goes all the way back to ancient Greek and Roman times,

you know, the, the shade of Patroclus coming to visit Achilles in the tent. And there's, there's different understandings of that too. You can look at it from the perspective of this was literally the energy, the spirit, the ghost of the. person came to deliver a message because it's because they still love us and they want to be helpful. The other one is that sometimes we summon the vision of a person that we think has a solution to a problem that we're experiencing and we try to imagine what they would say to us if they were there, um, which you didn't, you didn't go quite there and you didn't even

connected at this time to, to, to the, the actual relatives that it later made sense that it would be it. So during this time, you were actually, you became aware of a presence. it felt scary at first. And that's, that's its own kind of thing too. Sometimes even things that are beneficial to us. If we don't recognize it as beneficial,

if we don't understand, if we're not ready for it, if we're afraid, a particular approach is not going to be as successful. If we cling to old ways, we would be scared of change in that regard. So all of these concepts may be, maybe wrapped up in that.

And also, you know, there's this idea of it slowly, drawing closer in a way that, and you, and you mention yourself as, you know, trying to move in bed, but your body won't work. So you're innocent. Yeah, frozen. In a sense, you're, you're showing that it's coming closer. And we often think of the bedroom, say, is the heart of the homeowner, as much as the kitchen is the gut or something like that. Or sometimes vice versa, the heart, hearts the gut. Or the, I'm sorry, the kitchen is the heart. But the bedroom, it doesn't get more vulnerable, intimate, that's the place where you let all your guard down.

And so you're in that place where it's like the, it should be the safest place in your home. And this something unknown, maybe unfamiliar, certainly not typically human is coming towards you and you're unable to move. You are stationary. It's like the inevitability of,

of something approaching you. Sometimes it's like, you know, problems coming. And a deadline's coming. That's something. Go ahead. Imagine being in your room and you feel a wind of just a wind go past yourself in a room where there shouldn't be wind. And as you said, you're in the space of where you can rest your head and say, I'm safe here at this.

The home represents safety, security, instability. We do this with clients. And how can you replicate that in your workplace relationships and so forth? So to me, I felt this almost wind and now I've got two intruders in my house and I'm like, whoa, who's this? Like, and I'm especially geared towards my way back then was to deal with things with absolute violence. That's how we grew up. So my, I'm wanting to react, but I'm almost being pushed down on the bed, I suppose, without being pushed down. And then I'm thinking, wait, pretend you're, you know, try and lay here as still as you can.

And you can hear them saying, I think we're scaring him. That's what I could literally hear. And when I said here, they weren't talking, but I could feel. And it was just, you know, this almost quite a moment. And when it comes to dreams like that, you could hear no words at all, but they said. They said without words. I looked at them and I knew. That's as real as a visual image or the impression of an auditory.

sensation, which isn't actually happen anyway. It's in your head, you know, which doesn't make it any less real because you're having that experience. That's one that's some downing in this, this type of stuff. So you've got something approaching that you are unable to avoid. There's something unavoidable coming to you. And sometimes we feel that in terms of realizations like that's something we don't want to confront a necessary change in your case. I would think is a good ideas like there's something coming closer that feels threatening because I would say let and go of old ways can feel threatening because you're like, I don't know this is going to work. I know tried and true method is functional. It has his drawbacks, but what's going to happen

if I change? What's going to happen if I adopt a new method? I could end up in a worse place because I don't know. I've never done that before. So that's one of the fears of the unknown. It's like walking on the street and you, you know, somewhat late at night and someone's approaching and you're always like, yeah, it doesn't matter who you are. If you're not really conscious, you sort of like sizing the person up. to make sure that everything's okay. They're not stressed out. So as they approach, the tension gets higher and high,

and then you just see, you know, someone's got their headphones on. They're in their own little zone, and maybe it's just Mary Poppins walking on the street, having a nice evening or something of that nature. As opposed to someone who's aggressive, what's the feeling? And maybe they're screaming out with other people,

and they're approaching your side, that tension building. and that's what happened like literally in this house the tension built from the thing that the fact that it was the three story house bottom levels

where you come in the door garage a little bit of storage you go up to the split level and it's a lounge from kitchen next level two bedrooms bone for a minute yeah I could feel

the the person persons coming up through these levels and at each level they're like be quiet, he's going to hear us. And that sort of literally thought process. So the fact that that tension rose, it was so real and so present.

Yeah. It's not, as I said, unbelievable feeling. No, for sure. And then to actually, uh, there is that, as you were saying, that rise of tension, the mystery of the unknown is there. They seem to be responding or communicating. I hear you. He hears us.

There's a bit of a back and forth there, too, of like you're, you're not, unaware, but you're also not comfortable with it entirely, and you're also not sure what it is. Is it a threat? And, you know, when you're in that limbo of I don't know what this is, everything's a threat until proven otherwise. You're like, I need

to figure this out. And then when you're saying when someone's approaching you too, you don't just, you look at you know, let's say I'm six foot, 280, whatever, you know, it's a little five foot girl, she's 100 pounds, I'm not going to blink twice. It's a guy, a foot taller than me, 100 pounds heavier than me. And, And he looks like he's agitated.

I'm like, I'm going to cross the street. No offense. I'm not going to mess. I'm not going to mess with it. We start looking for you. And when you have no cues, you can't see what's happening, but you feel it coming. That's a unique kind of unpleasant experience. And the shape and what you finally did see him.

Yeah. Yeah. The last bit of that dream was them looking inside the bedroom door. They never came into the bedroom. But it was like they were just saying he's okay. I don't know. And when I really, I sort of almost deconstructed the dream

when I had the seven years to sit and really think about it. And I was thinking they were just looking at me and I don't know, had they done something? Yeah, this. To me it was very powerful. It was just something that I looked back on, it was a truth changing of the gap when I really, Yeah, probably deconstructing it today.

I think about it even deeper. Yeah. It was the changing of the guard, the old version leaving and them coming back. And I felt like it was almost like they had one opportunity to come back because they haven't come back since. And that, you know, whatever they said, go back and do what you got to do. And that's where we're at. That was my thought around that whole process. Yeah, definitely.

And that is interesting, too, that they got close enough for you to be able to see them, but they didn't intrude on your most inner core. It's like there's still a piece of you there that was the observer looking out from within a deeper place inside your own body that they had come to the door. And just to let you know, they were there and let themselves be seen. There's something powerful in that too. Yeah, the idea of... It wasn't.

There was no faces. There was no shape of my mother or grandmother. that it was like droplets of rain that were black and that moved together as a being. Oh, yeah. Just a, you know, a being of rain and how to explain it. And it moved very, like an octopus would move. That would be my thought process. Yeah, yeah.

Almost slimbing along is what you're saying. Yeah, in a way. Yeah. I think those conceptions of what it felt like and what looked like descriptions are very powerful too because I imagined almost a kind of blue, white, misty fog feature. What you're saying it was actually like black raindrops,

fair enough. In the darkness. You always see the ghosts in particular things and as you said it's like the fog of the ghost's much. This was the same fog type feeling but more in a black misty and that's why I suppose at the start

when they came through the dawn I felt the the breeze go past myself, woke me up. I'm like, What is this? Like, what is this dark, beam, beast, you know, and now there's two of them. And what are they coming for? And I suppose in that world, whether, you know,

maybe it was some darkness or subconscious thoughts about. I always got on it with people in that world. And I was a really good network. So I didn't have a vision of someone coming to get me in that sense. And after it, I didn't think, oh, is that a sign that someone's after me or something of that, age? It was more like, that was a sign of pace. By the time they finished at that door looking in, I felt comfortable.

So I'd relaxed. I'm like, oh, I need to wake up. And I was like, ah, I was trying to say something. And my ex-partner at that time had, she shook me and I woke up. And I turned around. And the first thing I was looking at that door and I sort of thought out, walked downstairs, walked around the house and yeah the whatever had been there had just disappeared and gone so yeah did you have any sense of what you were trying to say to them or what you know maybe not the

exact words but a message you were trying to trouble like I was like help help probably help you know to be honest and so I help help help help this saying they were at the ball saying they never kind of about them like help me they're they're close or or I asked you them for help. And I was helping, asking for help from my partner. So I was subconsciously knowing that she was sitting or laying beside me, I suppose. And to be able to unpack that and say, help me. There's people here.

I need you help. I need you help. That sort of. And it was definitely like constant. She said that you were very, at that time. It was, I was trying to say, help, help, help, help. But I was like, just making the voice as such, which woke her up. And obviously, she shook me and said, you know, what's happening?

You know, I just, I just, there's a funny phenomenon of time dilation or compression, sometimes in dreams too. And this entire dream could have happened right as you were starting to wake up before your brain had connected to your body again for voluntary movement because, you know, our body shuts off so we don't sleepwalk. And then that's the disorder of sleepwalking as our brain doesn't. disconnect from our physical responses. You could have had this entire experience in a fraction of a second right as you were starting

to wake up and then spoke almost immediately after the dream started and finished. But it felt like it took a lot longer. That's also a very common experience sometimes. That thing seemed like it went. That whole experience seemed like it went for, imagine like they're trying to sneak up the stairs. They're trying to. And they're like, be quiet, be quiet. Yeah.

And it seemed like a 10 minute experience. It was middle of the night. It was definitely dark. It wasn't during a wake-up period on whether I was waking up myself and I was in that process in the middle of the night. I don't know, but it was definitely middle of the night. Really dark. And the floors were wooden.

So they're like, be careful, you know. And actually they were conscious that the floors creaked. And, you know, you know, you know your house, you walk in certain parts if you have ever lived in a wooden house you know that you walk through this area you're going to get a bit of a creek here or creek there and it was almost like they knew where to go and i was like how would you know that you've been watching me and these courses you know you look at all these um little components of the dream and it was very impactful it was very you know there was a there was a reason behind it

it was i don't think it's just something that happened for no reason Yeah, and I would say ultimately, if that understanding is useful and it validates your, you know, positive change you've made in life, I'd say that's a good understanding. I don't have a better answer than what you've already come to because I think you've done the work that I try to do with people in the moment during this thing of like, let me really think about this. And then when you hit upon, you meditate on the dream itself and what kind of shakes loose spontaneously is, Okay, why am I thinking of my family? Why am I thinking of my mother and my grandmother specifically? Why would they come to me at that time? What would they want?

What message would they want? And the idea that they were, it felt scary, but they were actually kind of silly and playful about the whole thing like giggling. Yeah, absolutely. Like they're good. And in a sense as well, you were like, I hear you. You guys are ridiculous. You think you're sneaking up on me.

You're not. I see you coming. That makes me a little uncomfortable, but still it's happening. And I'm aware of it. So sometimes we have those, those. visions, those images as well of metaphorically self-reflecting on the process we're undergoing as well, which is, you know, I'm starting to come closer to seeing myself more accurately and honestly with myself. And that can feel threatening as well. Even if it's like,

ultimately it's a good thing. These things were not threatening. They didn't hurt you. You were just kind of scared of them for what they represent. And it turned out this is, you know, at the very least, the positive influence, what you would, I would say probably believe your, you know, mother, grandmother would say to you about the things that should be changed in your approach to problem solving or your habits or different crowds you're running with, you know, that all the things they represented about motherly advice towards get you shit together. It was like, it's coming for you. And you were, you can't avoid it.

It's going to reach you and communicate with you. So, but I see where we're heading up against the clock. I could keep you talking longer, but I want to get you out of here. Back into that conversation really quickly. Yeah. You think about any change in anyone's life at the first process or step of it is fear, anxiety, going into the unknown. And then both coming through that, or might have represented that. And then over time, you know, the gig or maybe have fun on that journey and, you know, life's about, you know,

enjoying it and just being you be you and something people always say what's the one bit of advice you'd have for people i say it's the sum of all things and the sum of all things come down to you just being you uh and yeah just do and like mike says just do it literally what is it that you want out of your life and i think that little journey where they made it it went from uncomfortable to wait a second who is this and to you know I feel comfortable now and recognizing maybe what happened during that change. And that's how I sort of broke that drain down over time. But, Matt, I value the insights that you have.

And I appreciate the opportunity today to get together and talk about it. It's funny, when you spend some conscious time towards any direction, you'll move towards it a lot quick. And I feel that sometimes even when speaking about it, you feel that maybe that was the right. a collection of what you were thinking. Yeah, I certainly would, didn't see anything in there to contradict your understanding. I think it's, I think it's very relevant.

And sometimes if we'd had a little more time and could have maybe, well, structured it differently, he's going to fall out, a little goofball. I like to play that Stump the Wizard game. Like, don't tell me too much. Don't tell me who you think it is. Let me see if I can get there on my own. But we, we, we do, well, each of these conversations is unique. And I don't, I'm not obsessed with controlling anything. I'm like, well, we'll just see what happens.

We'll just talk about it and see what comes out. And it was magical. I appreciate it. Yeah, just to, I think to have somebody you really deconstruct a whole heap of stuff, I have no doubt over time, it will correlate a whole heap of data, and there'll be a lot of patterns of dreams that will come out and say, hey, why is it just like those 250 different tribes across Australia, Aboriginal tribes.

Why do we have dream time stories? Where did it come from? Why are we all thinking? There was so much space between these tribes, yet we were all thinking on this sort of realm. Yeah, there must be, it has to be something within that consciousness of being. And that's something that's very intriguing.

I think so, I think there's more to be discovered about exactly how we're connected. I think the idea of, um, I do not, I can't prove it yet. I can't test it or demonstrate it or predict it. But I think we're going to find that we've got more, the idea of psychic connections and collective unconscious is, has more to it than people realize. We've always theorized that it's there and it feels real. And we just have to get around to proving it eventually. I think, I think we will, honestly. Um, but I don't, we're, we're keeping up your, uh, your window of time here. Uh, let's do this. I'll say once again,

thanks to our friend Jeffrey Morgan from Sydney, Australia, past a nutritionist, physical trainer, now leadership and mental health mindset coach, um, 2000, life coach of the year, can't read my own handwriting. And you can find him at jeffreymorgan.a.u, links in the description below. For my part,

would you kindly like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers. 16. Currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent dreams of their meanings by Horace G. Hutchinson, and all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. And yeah, Jeff, thanks again for being here. Appreciate your time.

Thanks for having me. Legend. And everybody out there, thanks for listening.