Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 135: ThatDarnKitteh

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

“The ancients envisioned their world in two halves - masculine and feminine. Their gods and goddesses worked to keep a balance of power. Yin and Yang. When male and female were balanced, there was harmony in the world. When they were unbalanced there was chaos.” - Dan Brown https://www.youtube.com/@thatdarnkitteh

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. Today we have our friend That Darn Kiddah coming straight to us from Dubai. Right back to her in two seconds. For my part, would you kindly like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers, always need more viewers for the game streams. And, uh, brain fart. 16. Currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent dreams in their meanings

by Horace G. Hutchinson, lovingly reproduced, recreated, and enhanced by Yours truly your friendly neighborhood dream wizard. All this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. Also, if you want to head over to Benjamin the dreamwizard. Dot locals.com and join the community there. It's like me and one other guy. So you'd be number two. And you could also, I'd prefer to receive, you know, sustaining donations through that,

through that site. But there's all this and more links in the description below, et cetera. That's enough about me. Back to Kitag. Thank you for being here. Hi. Hi. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Thank you for. You're filling me in. Absolutely. I'm glad we were able to make it work. I've been watching your streams pretty regularly. I love what you do. And that's, I'm fascinated by that, the debate diagrams.

I mean, was that how your channel started or how did you get into that? Okay, yeah, I'm a gaming person just like you. And not the same game. But, yeah, what actually, I got a bit more traction and stuff from the diagram stuff on YouTube. So I've moved away from the gaming streams on YouTube, even though some people have said maybe I should go back to gaming and put gaming in between. Anyway, well,

yeah, well, now that you've got a little bit of an audience, they'll follow you over and listen to you game, absolutely. Yeah, exactly. I mean,

the people interested, the people interested, I mean, I did have people literally follow over onto Twitch because that's where I was putting my gaming. So they went there. So I guess, yeah,

same thing happens. and people just want to hang out. It's the same person. And why dilute the amount of people? If they're interested in both things, then cool. Yeah, so that's what I was initially just, that's all I was doing is I was streaming games and yelling and doing all of that. I knew that too.

Yeah. Two reasons I yell at the games. I'm going to interrupt you sometimes. You interrupt me, please. Two reasons I yell at the game in fear and in anger. So I was playing the game Outer Wilds, I don't know if you ever played that, the one where there's a time loop. Yeah, it's a actually fantastic game.

I would say maybe don't watch the ending of my entire run, but check out some of the episodes. And there's a, there's a part where you go through what is essentially like an underwater area. And there are these giant chompy fish. And you can't move fast enough to get away from them. And I just, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. What does they eat me alive? And it's like a, I get a visceral feeling. And then also when a game is like,

broken and I can't it doesn't the controls don't work I'm like what the f I just lose my shit yeah yeah yeah yeah why yeah why is this impossible you had one job my big was just to be a controller yeah my big frustration with that is I can't tell the difference between am I attempting to do what I'm supposed to but I'm doing it poorly or am I attempting to do something that cannot be done and frustrating myself and very often I can't tell the difference in some of these platformer games you know am I beating my head against the wall or am I just poorly executing what the game designer intended me to do. I know that I'm being executed.

I know. I'm privileged that way. That's usually more likely. Now, come for me. I don't pretend to be good at video games or people are not watching my channel for speed runs. That's not going to happen. That was never my intention either. Yeah.

Well, speaking of the video games, just to, curious, what is your genre of games you kind of like typically? Well, I have been playing Monster Hunter for, for, since 2016. So, okay, that's not a long time for a monster hunter person. Monster Hunter's been out forever. But I basically, that was my game that I got stuck on for years, just wanting to play and just playing over and over and over again.

So basically, adventure co-op game is my favorite. And as much as I love animals, I'm killing the meounsters in Monster Hunter. Right? Monsters are kind of made to be killed. my main game. Except the cute ones. I don't know. Makes it. Oh, it hurts my face, but you have the thing I need. Yeah. Yes, I need the thing. I need the thing. Give me your crystals. Give me your spare parts so I can make more weapons to kill you with. That is definitely kind of, I kind of like the medieval fantasy setting. It's one of my favorites.

But also the, the style of game that co-op, I love Left for Dead two. It's been out since like, what, 2009 or so. and that still has thousands of people playing every day because you get together with a team, but I don't like PVP. I like co-op PVE is more my thing. So, yeah, so you'll never find me playing FPS shooters. I'll just take headshots all day

and get nowhere and be frustrated. That's not my skill set. I mean, it has its place. I have played those as well, like as well because I just get carried by my friends. It's just like playing my friends. Yeah.

That's fun. And I've just had the most, fun. We did co-op PVE and PVP in, um, we play, did you ever play, uh, Red Dead Redemption online? No, I never got into that one. See, for me, the genre also matters like, cowboy genre, not my thing. I'm like, it doesn't, I don't feel it, you know. Yeah, we went through phases, but I always come back to Monster. Yeah. Because there's also cats in it. Of course. I get stuck with that. Yeah. Yeah. My, my addiction used to. to be the MMOs, the online, you know, and I played EverQuest for like five years when it came out

from like 99 to 2004. I'm an old school way back when. Before games were this digitally, I mean, the graphics are just fantastic these days. We're heading towards life like simulation pretty soon. I think we're on this like exponential curve. Do you have a VR? No, no, but I think that's coming, you know, for like as a more ubiquitous thing. Yeah, yeah, it's one of the thing. I'm like, it's going to happen at some point. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know when I would take, I'll take that leap. Yeah. I would want to full set up, like the proper thing that you can run on. I know the little containers with the platform. Yeah. Imagine video gaming and and exercising at the same time instead of just sitting. Well, that's what I would be the most person in the pool. Well, that's what this garage originally was. I had martial arts mats all over the place. I've actually got a television mounted to the wall here. And it's got the Xbox.

360 thing and I used to play stand-up games and move and do all that kind of stuff. That was part of my exercise. I wish the Connect became bigger. It just went away. That Xbox Connected.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was a PlayStation move or something, but I remember Xbox was so much better is to go to the stores just to play those games. It was just so cool that, wow. Anyway. It is pretty cool. And it was a little,

like for some of the dancing games my wife and i used to do that together try and try and do the beat each other scores dance next to each other and it always had detection problems and it wasn't that that accurate and sometimes you'd move and it wouldn't really you'd move too fast well how the game wants me to move fast now but the technology can't keep up yeah that's a big deal but oh geez yep then it could more than it could chew there you go there's the yeah for sure it's a You know, and I didn't know that the technology went away. I've gotten away completely from consoles like this. The Xbox was the first console I'd bought since the S-N-E-S back in like 93 or 92, my way back when.

I haven't owned a console since then. I've been strictly a computer gamer. If it wasn't available on computer, I didn't play, which is why. Go ahead. You're a real gamer with computer. Right. PC MasterRase for the win. Yes.

I've even got the hair. Whoa. Like the guy. Like the guy. But. which is why I've got now finally the last of us I've wanted to play it. Great game from all I've heard.

Finally available on Steam, 60 bucks. I'm not paying full price yet. But as long as it was exclusive to what PlayStation, I was never going to play it. I guess that's not a game I can play. So, yeah, nobody needs to be going out and buying a PlayStation for a game.

I wouldn't have done that. I'm buying a PlayStation for a PlayStation. Yeah. Yeah. And I've never been much of a, even games that I play on my PC that have, controller compatibility and I don't use controllers mouse and keyboard only like that's a whole different muscle memory I I you see okay I would if I played it okay if I played long enough I would

I would get into it because I used to play PC but when I like I once tried to just get into PC just doing some game on the PC and I was actually like unable I could not I was I was like blind and done. I was late. I didn't move because I didn't have the muscle memory that made normal anymore because I was just, I'm like, where's the controller? That's it.

I need controls. And actually, Monster Hunter, if you play Monster Hunter on PC, you're going to actually use a computer. You should. You have it. Gotcha. Yeah.

I know that. I'm glad they make that compatibility for people because for me, and I'm also a weird subset of, the PC gamer mouse and keyboard. I don't use WASD. I use the arrow keys. Oh my God. I could be that person.

They are gamers like that. Oh, yeah. I've been that way since Doom in 1994. I started playing Doom, the original Doom, or Doom 2 maybe on the PC way back here. I was using the arrow keys. I was not,

and I was it A. S, WZ, all of that, no, I use, I use arrows. Yeah. I change on purpose. And then I guess, yeah, I mean, then people give you crap. Yeah, they gave me crap, but then also I just

didn't have a fast enough computers. Oh, that too, yeah. I fell out of game. People go, that's weird. I say, no, it's special. I'm special. Yeah. It's unique.

So we covered the gaming thing a little bit. And then eventually, so how long? So how long ago would you say you started the debate diagram? I think what inspired that? What was the first one? March of this year. Yeah. So what happened was I was watching Sitch and Adam, which is just one of my favorite binge watching channels.

A great show. Everybody should subscribe. Shout out to Sitch and Adam. Yeah. And that's, and I've just always, I watched them. I'd watch them when they were separate. and then, yeah, then, whatever. And they had just a debate on, and like, usually I would just be listening, so I never would

go into chat or anything like that. But anyway, not that I went in on this particular diagram, of this particular debate, but, yeah, I just got so, when I listened to this, it was so stupid what these people were saying. And I was like, no, I have to do this. I've always wanted to do it, because it's just something that I want to do. I have this need to write diagram things, which I've spoken about. But like it's, so this one just, it was, it was the breaking point that actually just made me go and actually do it.

Because I've had the idea for a long time. Nobody wants to do it. Nobody needs to look at that. But I was like, you know what? I want to spend my time doing this diagram for my own sanity. Yeah. And I went and did it to just follow this conversation because I wanted to understand why it was frustrating. me so much. Why, how does, why, why, why is what they're saying so stupid? It was, uh, Bob and,

and, um, and Dane, organized chaos versus, um, organized chaos and, uh, actual fandom versus situation. I think I remember watching that one live, yeah, and that was pretty recent. Yeah, it was, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, so I, I, I watched that and, yeah, then I, what I did is actually, I actually streamed it on, because I don't, don't stream to YouTube. So, I streamed it to Twitch. My one friend pitched up because I was like, look, I'm not doing gaming today, but I'm going to do this. What do you think? And he's like, okay, fine, whatever.

And he just came there. And also one of the gaming people came as well. And he's usually there just to make like jokes and stuff. And he actually got involved. Some people got involved while we were doing it. It was actually really fun. So it was the first time I did it. And then I just uploaded the Vodd to YouTube and tags all the people involved.

And I knew that tagging could make them notice for sure. But it was kind of just the thing of you're literally, you're reviewing somebody's content, so you should tag them. I've spent hours watching somebody's content on my stream. I'm going to tag them. And then Adam actually saw it. And it was, I couldn't believe it. Like as I'd uploaded it or something, just he by chance, must have just come across it.

Because, I mean, it's good hygiene to be checking when people are mentioning you and stuff. And, yeah, he commented, oh, this is great. You know, yeah, I commented on there, and that blew my mind. I was like, oh, my God. And then they gave me a shout out on their channel, and they invited me just to have a bit of a chat at the end of one of the streams. And that got me quite a lot of subscribers. and a lot of views on that particular diagram. And then some people,

then I did a second one on YouTube, and then some people came back. And we've actually, you're part of it now. Yeah, kind of regularly show up in the chat. Yeah, and it's like,

what are we doing now? And then like, you know, people are suggesting different debates and things. So it's growing. It's still growing. It's not where I want it to be. I want to edit things a lot more.

cut stuff up and do maybe better analysis that is on top of the diagram and all of that sort of stuff that I haven't gotten to yet. But yeah, that's that's me. That's what happened. So it got that shot out that really went mad. Yeah. I think that is exactly how I found out about you. Oh, who's this person?

Debate diagrams. I've been, you know, and I've been in the chat, of course. I call it like ASMR for Aspies. I love it. I love it so much. Pause, pause, diagram this. What did he just say?

Why is this stupid? Why is this a tangent? We're not even on the main topic anymore. They went this far down and now we're calling back to this thing that was never settled. So many, I'm going off now, but so many discussions and debates online go horribly wrong because there's so many reasons. But a lot of times the thread gets lost.

And I've even noticed it in debating people in a Discord thread. By the time you get so far down, you're actually on a completely different subject because you try to make a point and you give an example. Then they're debating the example. Then you're debating the analogy about the example. Now you're deep into the analogy. And it's like, wait a minute, this is, we're not even on the same topic anymore. And I'm like, what are we? You were just trying to get on this. It wasn't actually what is the, what is the goal of us talking? That that's, that's the difference between, I think, a debate and a conversation. Yeah.

I mean, obviously, there's always, what is the point of the debate really? Because nobody's changing their minds, really? In that conversation. Not the participants, yeah. Not the participants. People that are listening go, yeah. And I guess that's the point. Kind of a performance for the audience, yeah.

Exactly. And what you see in these things, like what I've seen is past each other. and there's just this continuous use of those sort of tactics of like, I'm just going to pretend this is what you said. I shall straw man and then we're just going to spend a whole one I was on the straw man. And I have a perception of you person I'm debating that I'm going to keep for the rest of this whole interaction and I'm going to just interpret you in this manner.

It happens all the way. But then we did that Blair White and Destiny conversation, which was a good talk. They just talk to each other. Brilliant. They didn't agree on everything. That's not what the whole point was. And it wasn't a huge debate, but they just disagreed with each other. And it was so nice.

And you see that and see how much you could get from a conversation like that. And then you go back. We went back to some other problems. Oh, yeah. That was painful. I don't know. We didn't finish. No, no, no.

And you know what? If you're down the road on something and you're like, this is awful. This hurts. I don't enjoy this. I don't want to do this. Especially if you're the content creator and like, this is, I'm not enjoying this. Now, it isn't, it's work sometimes. But really, there's also part of it where you need to kind of be, you can't fake that

enthusiasm or you shouldn't. I don't think. I think you should be genuine. Yeah, I think if it's awful, you just say, this is awful. I don't want to do this. And then you can, then you ask the audience, which is an interesting thing. It brought to my audience capture. And I'm like, I understand why that can be a bad thing.

Then again, it's your audience. if they don't want to see it either like what the fuck am I doing? I don't want to do this. They don't want to do this. Why am I subjecting all of us to this? I would need it. Yes.

Like I, it's a, it's a, it's a negotiation because you're like, okay, well, guys enjoying this. Oh, okay, fine. Then maybe if you guys can keep me going, then I'll carry it continue. Yeah, yeah. Like, otherwise, just, and that I just needed one person to be like, no. And I was like, thank God. Okay, we're done.

I'm done. And what, that was, but I've had those debates where I've just felt, I can't do this yet. And I've been tired of it, whatever. I've had those. But then, um, then with this one, but then I still want to, I want to go and finish it because I need to finish it. I don't like the idea that this is finished. We didn't get to the park. That bugs me too sometimes.

This one, it wasn't like, oh, I needed to get to the boss fights. I was like, yeah. There was no boss in that fight. It was both level one minions that just couldn't get their shit together. The objective was to die. And I was just like, yeah.

And it's, you know, it's kind of sad. I mean, I think everyone universally agrees. Maybe not everyone. That's hyperbolic. But the broad assessment that I've seen of that particular debate is,

you know, one side was bad faith and the other side was a bad advocate. That, you know, it's like, you know, we're not getting anything done here. And it's, um,

Yeah, we don't need to get into that too much more. Like, I have all kinds of things to say about why it was horrible. But I love the diagramming thing. And then in terms of your process, and I'm sorry, I keep talking over you. Go ahead. All right. No, no, no. I'm saying I was thanking you for coming on to Thinkers, just the group podcast,

we'd love to have you on again. Oh, sure. Absolutely. And if it's not about dreams, you're always welcome. Oh, thank you. Well, I don't want to be intrusive. there's a there's a well thank you it's just good to feel welcome i appreciate that and i will i absolutely will no i'm not making excuses but there's an interesting thing too is like just like you got a shout

out and it blew up a channel a bit and you're trying to make it better i i want exactly the same thing there's there's this um idea of clout chasing which is you know which is bad but i am also you're damn right hoping to ride coattails i hope this episode with you blows me up too why wouldn't i that's that's how we that's how we do it right Literally, they put it in YouTube. They're like, have a collab, a suggestion, have collabs with our creators. Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is, it's genuine, though.

So it's not like it's like, okay, yeah, we're just kind of pretending to like each other. Yeah, yeah, there's no ass kissing going on here. It's just like both of us wanted to do this thing. Yeah. And I think it's interesting too. It's like, speaking of the idea of audience captures, I'm a bit immune to that because what I do is what I do. It's just, it is what it is.

Now, if certain videos get more likes, than others, it might be a fact, well, lean into that. I'll be like, okay, that seems to be that's what people like. But it's not going to change the format of the show where I just, I talk to people and then we do a dream. That's what I do. If people don't like it, I'm just never going to succeed. I can't do anything else.

This isn't going to turn into anything but that. And then, you know, I do a little, I cut out a clip and I make a YouTube short. It's all advertising in that sense. You know, and actually, in terms of my inspiration, I got inspired by Sticks, Hexonhammer. I don't know if you ever heard of him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I followed him since 2016, the whole election coverage and all that good stuff. Clanker. What is? Clanker. Clank, clank, clank. Very nice. We are clankers. I can't clank because all I've got is my juice in a bottle. And my mouth is so dry to. I don't know why. But anyway, he inspired me the idea that I could publish a bunch of books. I could do what he does. Now, he's probably got like a thousand. I mean, that guy's an amazingly productive, productive guy. I can't, I cannot match his energy level.

Um, but I'm like, you know, I can do that too. I can find old out of print works that are in my specialty. And it serves a dual purpose. I mean, I'd like to make an income from. I'd love to sell a thousand books a day for the rest of my life. It'd be fantastic. And they're out there forever now. So hopefully passive income. But also the idea of this, uh, doing the books was my own master class in teaching myself the history of dream interpretation. What has been said about it? What are the theories? How can I incorporate that understanding into my method? And, um, it turns out what I was in my own estimation, be it ever so humble, what I was intuitively doing is the right way to do it, as far as I can tell. And I still don't understand what I do. I call it using my autistic superpower,

my naturally scatterbrained, associative thinking, and my head just goes, and I get all these ideas. And I'm like, let me tell you everything, all the ideas, and you tell me what works. I love that. No, no, that is, God, that is, I've seen it. I've seen it work in, in the dreamscape episodes. It really does. Nice. It is a superpower. It is like a superpower.

Well, there is. So that's part of it too. But the other half of it is like, I'm not the authority. The answers are not in me. It's all, it's, it's all inside you. So all I can do is say, here's what it could be. Here's what I, here's shapes I see in the dark. And you tell me which one feels right.

Which one you go, not that, not that, that one, you know, go ahead. Yeah. rounds with each other. You help me think. Like you, you doing, if you're giving ideas, then what resonates, I have to. Resonates, yeah. Then we can go forward. Like, if it doesn't resonate, it's not good.

Of course not. That doesn't make sense. Why would the way it looks for you in mean something in my mind? My mind generates the dream. So, yeah, just, it's common. It makes sense. Yeah. So, but the thing is the way that your mind goes and bounces off all of these things.

it's ways that I have and might not have gone. And that's what I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah, as well. And your brain as well, because I don't have a set. Okay, so I've got like, if we're going, like, because we do a dream, right? Yeah. I've got like several dream things that we could go through.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And a question. Sure. So, okay. Let's do the question thing or ask me anything. Yep. Okay, so that, yeah, I am.

So what I have had, is there, is there, I haven't looked into it, is there anything that exists of any theory of a dream map? I'm not thinking of math, but like a dream world that somebody might have. A place that they returned. Yes, absolutely. Is that a, that's the thing? Yeah, it seems to be a rare thing, but it is a thing that I've had one of my past episodes, a person says, so this is a dream world I always return to, same places, it's like the same city, and I'm in different locations in it or, yeah, that is. Like, there's this relative map of, because I can say where certain dreams have happened in relation to other dreams.

Nice. So not all the, not all the time, not all the time, but I could say like this is where this, maybe it's just my, I'm like the imagination growing it around, my conscious mind growing it around, and then it feels like that's what it is. But yeah, that's what it. I could literally be like, I used to have, like there was like, no, no, no, this island thing over here was, that's where that dream happened. And then over here is where this dream happened.

Like I actually have that kind of thing. So, yeah, I was wondering if you had experienced that before. because I was like, maybe I'm just making it up and then putting all of these things together. But clearly my brain has made some sort of thing out of it. There's a reason that it feels connected, that it feels like if I went like this, that's where that dream would happen. Yeah. You know, there's a reason for that.

I think I'll begin another episode because next time I have one of those, I'll have to write it down properly because it's a very long time ago that I have that sort of I haven't been there in a while. Okay. I don't think I could tell. Like, a recent dream hasn't occurred in that area. So it's not every dream, gotcha.

Yeah, it's not every dream. Yeah, I think the last person I talked to said it is every dream for them. That it's always connected. They always return to the same world. And the interesting thing about dreams is that literally it's all taken place in your head. So none of it is physically real.

There's no way that your dream can be wrong in that way. It is what it is. You saw what you saw because it was all, imaginary. I don't want people to confuse the idea of imaginary with fake or wrong. It's just it isn't the root word of imaginary is image. It is what you saw. It is what it is. It's just like feelings can never be wrong, but compared to objective reality, they're not always right. Sometimes you'd be frustrated with someone, but you had the wrong impression. So your emotional response was based on a misunderstanding, therefore wrong technically. A real feeling, but not

appropriate to the situation. Like paranoia, fear out of proportion to actual danger in the environment, that kind of thing. So if you have the experience, the feeling or the certain knowledge that one dream took place in the same world as another dream, it is absolutely true. And it did. Why? That's the trick. What is the connection? Yeah. I would love to give you an answer for that. That's a theory I need to work on. Why does that happen? My, you know, my, I think I'm almost, I'm certain there has to be a reason. I'm sure there is some reason. I'm, my, my, my, my, you know, my. I'm, you know, my. I think I'm, I'm certain. I'm certain. I'm, I'm sure there is some reason. My, my, my, my, my. My, my, my. My. I'm. I'm. I'm. My. I. I. I. I. I. I My intuitive guess in that direction is that there's something about that particular dream world that is like the hub of a connected set of ideas. So that any time you are exploring, say, maybe broad category with multiple different exemplars or variations, anytime you return to that broad category, it puts you in the same category dream world. And now you're going to have a different experience there because you're, you're, you're analyzing a tangent of that broader topic, whatever it is. And if we could identify what that topic was and how each of those dreams relate,

we might, something might happen. Or at least to be interesting to know. Next time it happened. Emergency dream session has to happen now. Absolutely. Well, just be voicing and just record. I need to do a dream diary when that happens. Yeah.

But it hasn't happened in a while. But like these are old dreams that. also recurred a lot so I knew where they were. So that's also another thing. So that was my question on that. So is that interesting? So I don't really know how much I can go into that. Actually, there's so much vagary that I would go into so that you can leave it. Then it was the one thing that when you first brought up what you do, first thing that came to mind is I've never had and you want to speak about this. I've spoken about it with therapists and things,

but we never really spent too much time on it. But it was the fact that for many years, most of my dreams, speaking about location again, but most of my dreams actually took the format of all of the people were, they happened in my high school or school, or school. and this was while I was out of school, many years out of school still. And the people that would have featured in it, all of my classmates, they would all mean, that's all, all I would think is, okay, they mean something.

You shouldn't represent something. That's why they're there within the thing of school. But this thing of school was the reason that I was stuck in that. And I cannot tell you, what brought me out of it. Maybe it was, maybe, I don't know, it was because I was in college. I don't know if that was it.

That's what my brain is. There's a comparison to be made, yeah. Back in school now. So there was that. Yeah. There was that one thing of school, right? In school and the people and the images. So even if my brain is trying to figure something out about normal life,

say, even if it's talking, like we are talking about buying a new fridge, and then I'm going to talk about buying. mundane dream kind of thing. Like I'm going to talk about buying the new fridge. It's in the school kind of thing. So locations are very big deal for me, I think. So there's that. But then also one of the recurring features of,

that even when we went beyond the school thing was one person from school or two people from school that would keep coming back. And there would just be fixtures in my dream. just and I don't speak to them nothing but they just always occur so that's the characters there's two characters two of them

both of them at some point work for my close friend so I can't really give me much more narrative on that other than gosh I don't have a specific dream that's okay I was hoping I could speak to you and then let it come you know so there was that

okay then the last thing that we could maybe talk about is more relevant and more now our time is I have recurring dreams of having hair on my tongue and I have to I can actually pluck it out. It's like hair like this, my head, my head, and I can actually go and pluck it out. And that is that is a big, big, big image in my dreams in the past few months. I mean, I've had them several years, but like, that would be the one that we could go on. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah.

Love to get into that. Well, there's, so there's two things. You've actually mentioned two categories of typical dreams, which is part of what I've discovered from. And you will discover, too, if you buy my books. There are a variety of typical dreams. Are they available on Kindle? Say again, sorry? Are your books available on Kindle?

Yes. make a digital e-book versions of almost every book. Some of them don't translate as well. But, but there's, there's almost one to one. Each, each, each book has a digital copy. They're not as good, uh, in my estimation, uh, because I'm not able to control the formatting as well. And some of the, I have to leave out some of the appendices that show you what page things are on. Um, because it just doesn't really work as well. So if I had an appendix that is, you know, every term and author and citation and whatnot and it shows you the page. It's on the physical copy.

I just delete that for the e-book. And, you know, good luck. It's so much work. I don't even, I can't wrap my brain around how to do it. And maybe it's very simple and I've never figured it out. But so I would say, you know, the e-books are priced significantly cheaper because you're getting, you're getting all the, all the work I did in editing the content to make it presentable with less features than the physical, physical copy.

I just, I'm a physical. book guy. I mean, by the real thing. It's just that having now the experience of literally trying to get a comic book or not even a, just a, what's it's, a graphic novel from America. Oh, getting it shipped out to you, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Getting it over here was the problem. But you know what? If it's, I would rather have the fool, if there's something, if there's something missing,

I'd rather wait for that whole shipping thing. Yeah. And then just buy a couple together so that it would also make it. So yeah. Anyway. Well, something I've been thinking about with guests is actually offering people the, you know,

every guest, like you get a free copy, pick one. I'll mail it to you. And I think that's probably the best way. And it might be, might not be cheap to ship it to Dubai. But it might be worth it.

Like, you know, I get it at authors copy prices. So it's already cheap for me. And it might be, you know, I don't know how much. I'll find out.

If we talk afterwards. I'll pay for shipping for it. Get a significant, like a free book. You're not paying for the book. You're just paying for the shipping. That's fantastic. I hate to ask guests to do it. It's like, I'll ship you a book if you pay for it.

I should just give it away. I should just send it to you as a thank you for coming on the show. But also like free promotion. Like, if you like it, you go, oh, this is great. Look, I got on this book. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's another thing. I wanted to ask you as well, when it comes to the book is I would want to know, like, where do I start?

You know, yeah. Okay. As I say, there are 16 currently available works. A lot of them, and to be honest, they duplicate each other's material. So I'm reading, it's a funny thing. You said you went to college. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

One thing you'll notice if you go to college and anyone who didn't, I'll give you heads up. You study a specialty, like I got my degree in psychology. And what you do is, you know, there's Psych 101, and there's all the basic concepts, and you learn a lot of the terms. and then every single class after that, it's a repetition of a lot of the same material, but from this perspective, but as applied to this category or field. And I think it's the same in a lot of different studies. So that's kind of how I look at it with the book things.

You're going to get a lot of repetition and a lot of unique application of stuff based on the author. Their unique focus and specialty. But you can almost pick any one of them. Some of them stand out as distinctly unique. The first one, the court of curiosity is specifically the work of a French knight writing a long-ass letter, his research to a French noble woman telling her, here is what dreams mean based on my study.

And he's referencing dream interpretation of the ancients in a way that's more dream dictionary focused and fixed. If you dream of this, it means that. So there's that. That's a specialty kind of thing. The second book I did is a explicitly Christian perspective. It is a preacher from the 1600s giving a sermon that he wrote out on divine dreams, dreams from God, and dreams from the devil and how to tell the difference if you're a good Christian. And there's a tremendous loud amount of poorly, honestly poorly translated Latin that I did. And that's another thing you get with the physical copies is the footnotes on the page.

So if I write out a Latin thing, down at the bottom is the translation that I put together myself, which I think it's close enough. Chief, that's a lot of work. Yeah, that one took a long time. And then there's the, then the next thing I launched into was a, what I call a trivium, a three book set that was a, an anthology of shorter works chronologically listed. So there's that. And then there's book, I want to say it's book six. I think it is called Studies in Dreams. And it was specifically a British woman's book about her experience with lucid dreaming and flying.

And yeah, it's good stuff. You know, and then I've got one of my bestsellers is actually book, book 10, A Witches Dream Book, which is kind of a reproduction of a pop culture dream book from the 1800s. That is the kind of you'd buy at the local store for a penny, you know, that kind of a thing. Books are not a penny anymore. Penny used to be worth more. Probably my most recent favorite, and I'm making this all about me. I'm supposed to hear the guest, but.

No, I just want to hear about it. Okay. Well, I hope it the audience finds it interesting, too. I can't remember what the number is, but it's dreams in Homer and Greek tragedy. And it was this guy's dissertation to become a philosophy professor. And he was talking about here's the, here's all the literary exemplars from Greek mythology and Greek tragedy and the works of Homer, the Odyssey and the Iliad and how the Greeks understood dreams based on how dreams were represented in their popular media at the time. that's a fascinating work. I love that one. And it's just basically, you know, edited and republished a guy's doctoral dissertation and heavily footnoted. There's like 400 some odd footnotes in that thing.

And I put them all in the back. I'm like, you know, wow, there's just way too many. So there's actually an entire appendix that is all the footnotes that were longer than entire pages. If you want to read those, you can. Because he's referencing a lot of stuff, the exact page number of the work that he found this information on, commentary on it. It's great stuff. I would read the whole thing, and I did. But if you don't want to do that, you can just read the part where he discusses it and skip the footnotes. That's fine. But that's the extra value. I try to add to these things. You can find other copies of these works online. In my humble opinion, they're not as good as mine. I think mine are the enhanced editions.

Yeah. I'm interested in it. And now you've just made it more difficult for me to choose. I say, it's just like, get them all. It's just going to take me a while to read them all properly. right I put a lot of that in like the footnotes and things like the footnotes are there for a reason you can't leave them

yeah well what I put in there too is like if they talk about they'll say according to the theory of Bergson you're like who the fuck is Bergson okay well it's Henry Berksson it was a French philosopher and down in the footnote it's like

here's the guy's full name here's his lived and died and then a description of who he was French philosopher famous for XYZ I actually have a whole one encyclopedia I'm putting together of every one of these things I've looked up because if I read it and I don't know what it is or I don't think the reader's going to know what it is. A book to read the book. Yeah.

There will be, there may be a published encyclopedia of dream someday. That's, that's all the historical figures and, and whatnot. Yeah. I'm working on it. Awesome. Yeah. That is so, oh, that is a massive undertaking. But you're, you're enjoying it? It keeps me busy. Yeah. Actually, you do. So I, uh, I do a little weekend gig for some extra cash, but this is my 9 to 5. And actually, I'll spend 10 to 12 hours a day doing this stuff. I'm editing video. I'm editing books.

I'm doing the business paperwork and stuff in the background, you know, those kind of things. I'm always doing something. Yeah. But it's one of those things where it's like, do what you love. You'll never work a day in your life. I don't feel like I'm working. This is just what I get out of bed to do every day. So I love it.

I just need to be a little more successful. It just needs to pay the mortgage and then we're good. You know, just the little thing of living. Yeah. I got to pay the bills, unfortunately. Well, okay, so before I forget, there were two things we talked to us, so typical dreams. One is a return to school days. That is an entire category.

I'm back in school. Now, that encompasses I'm naked in class and I'm embarrassed. I didn't study for a test and anything and everything else that is set in school. It's a very iconic and intense period of time that stays with us. I mean, we're a kid, we're an adolescent. We're going through puberty. We're growing up. We're making friends.

We're making mistakes. And then we graduate. And now we're what? Suddenly I'm an adult and all that gets left behind. And I kind of equate it to why are there so many anime set in Japanese high schools? It is the same type of expokely we're going to return to this common cultural experience that everyone has. Because I mean, we think about cookie cutter schooling in America. It's even more rigidly cookie cutter.

One Japanese school is pretty much identical to the next. They run them all the same. Not exactly. but it's more more identical than in America, say. And the other category is dreams involving the mouth. And it's also a very common dream. Very typically the dream of teeth falling out. But it can be a lack of ability to speak.

It can be hair. Actually, you're not the only one. The first one who says, you know, the idea of hair coming out or pulling other things out of the mouth or pulling teeth with your fingers. These things happen in a lot of people's dreams. the mouth is it's a it's a human feature that we all share and we all use it in the same ways or at least the range of possible uses and typical uses is identical from person to person so that that's where we get into in my estimation that's that's one shade of meaning on the collective unconscious style of things so um right yeah there's lots of different um layers to that now

There's one layer of people understand the collective unconscious as a psychic connection, like there's a floating field of psychic ether out there that we all are connected to. That is possible. I don't know. That might be where dreams of deceased relatives come from. That might be where psychic premonitions of future disasters come from. That's the thing. People had dreams before earthquakes, the San Francisco earthquake, the Downing of the Titanic,

people dreamed about them. In retrospect, people look back and go, well, if you had a dream that the Titanic went down and it didn't, You wouldn't notice that. You would just, so there's a bias, possibly a confirmation bias. But that's one layer of the, now there's another layer of the collective unconscious that was closer to what Jung meant. And there were theories at the time that humans have an ancestral memory. It's almost like our, it's baked into our DNA in some ways. So there's people who say dreams of flying are an activism.

an atavistic or ancestral throwback to the time when we were, you know, our ancestors were fishes floating the ocean before they ever walked up on the land and became monkeys and then humans. It was one. That's one theory. So we have a kind of visceral sensation coded into our DNA of floating in the ocean when our ancestors were fish. That's another layer of it. And that can also go to, there's modern theories of saying, um,

generational trauma, which has also two separate things. One, it can be baked into our DNA. We have a, maybe we get passed down a stronger central nervous system, fight or flight response. Maybe that comes from our parents because of their trauma. Sure. The other side of it is generational trauma is usually behavioral in terms of like, you know, your grandfather kicked your father's ass.

Your father kicks your ass. You kick your kids ass and then the beatings continue. Someone's got to break. there's a cycle of violence. Yeah. Yeah. And then with the layer of collective unconscious that I work on most specifically in terms of my dream interpretation is the common human experience.

We are physical beings. To make the most of the community. Yeah. Constituted in the world. We all have mouths and ears and legs, most of us, that kind of thing. But because we do and because we use them to interact with the world in specific ways, they're going to have a certain range of meaning in the dream context. Yeah.

Just went off on the whole thing. Go ahead. No, that's what I, so that's what I was, when I first, I have this memory of reading just because, I mean, I also studied psych. And, but it was just a, I just landed up the one day I was browsing a book store and I just landed up looking at it. It was in the classic section, it was one of Jung's books. And I, like, yeah, we do readings and things about like from Yul. and it's in my textbook and all that. But we never actually went and had his whole works and studying young.

Yeah. So I actually was reading that and one, the collective unconscious. I should have bought that book because that is just a little past the amounts of like 10 minutes that I spent reading that. That's, it was the most incredible thing. I was so excited about it because it just made so much sense. with the kind of like the common, there was, yes, there was some sort of reference to that kind of a theory of thing,

but mostly just that we have shared experiences because we have shared human conditions. And that made so much sense. That was the first time I'd really thought a lot about Jung's dream interpret kind of the way that he was doing it because that's how it was laid out. And I was like, that's how, that makes so much. You can't come and tell me the dream dictionary kind of,

okay, this means this, this means this. It made sense that what he was basically, what I'd read there was basically saying, you know, it depends on the mind that it's created it. But there are, within all of our minds, shared ideas that it just that they, they, it seems like also just our brains will just manifest that, in that way.

They will do that teeth falling out. Those sort of things are undeniably, like a collection of human experience. Like there's an undeniable. So I understand the dream dictionary having a collection of just of dreams people have had that are similar. Yeah. That then generates.

That's why I'm interested in your books as well, that sort of thing. Like how much of that all this stuff has made is, you know, can we look at through this lens that we're talking about now? and obviously like you were saying in your previous episode like you know the different dreams mean different things could mean different things societally the different people yeah so so yeah like looking at at the collective conscious of a certain time period it just would also be cool but yeah i'm doing what yeah i just it's so cool so so this the tea thing so that's really well because i give you an exact narrative really. I don't have one like fresh in my mind. But that's what I

wanted. When you start talking about that, then I can maybe give you more examples of what my dreams are like when I've got teeth falling out. And what's, if you can tell me, you said the hair removal thing. You know it's the hair. Because that nobody has ever spoken to me about the hair in the tongue one. I haven't really read up on the meaning of that. The teeth one, everybody talks about teeth. The tongue, I've never, I don't have a, makes anyone who's had the same dream. I have heard of it before. So that's one of the benefits of, okay, two, a couple of things.

I want to loop back. Brain explosion. I would say, you know, in terms of going to school, the difference between someone who is degreed and barely competent and really tries to master something is school in teaches you in some ways how to research, what qualifies as reliable and good research, what the, what the breadth of theories is. But you don't often read the source material. They might tell you, oh, check this out if you're interested, but here's the, here's the summer.

You're getting the Cliff Notes versions of a lot of things. Yeah, because you've got to go to your next class. Yeah, and you got, and you got homework to do and you get, maybe you got a part-time job and you got what, your family and you go, I want to hang out with my friends sometimes and oh, I'm hung over, you know, all that good stuff from college. Whoops, not high school. It shouldn't be hung over in high school, please. But what makes someone, I would say, more of, you know, mastering something is really going

on and doing that reading. Well, let me go to the source material. Let me actually tackle that and look at it. And something that's very hard. I've done that with a lot of philosophical works because that was kind of my first love. And it laid the foundation for them. What would what would come after is like there's just there's often very few new ideas. There's just new ways of looking at old ideas or there's new ways of saying old ideas that sound new, but they're not really.

So we get a lot of repeating things. People go, what about this idea? I'm like, that was Aristotle. 2,000 years ago. It's not new. And they're like, what? Why are you always trying to cite All these old people?

Because they thought of it a long time ago And it's been addressed. This is not really new. Yeah, it's the same concept. Yeah. So just that idea. You're not to do by on horn. But if you're going to really try to bad master, say dreams,

do the work, do the reading and look into it. And that's why I'm sticking with that specially. It's too much. If I branch out too much, it's too many books to read. So. Yeah, I know. That's the thing I would have also wanted to have done. in my life is be an academic.

You're living my dream here. Like just reading, learning. Oh my God. Well, I, if I may, you know, prophecy, we'll do the scrying into the crystal ball dream thing. I think you've got a unique product in the debate diagrams.

I have never heard of anyone doing that. And I think you could master that as a specialty and really turn it into something like, You said you want to take it to a next level in terms of produced videos. There may be, I think what you're going to, I think if you continue on this path, you do the work. You keep like for me, the more dreams I've interpreted, the better I get at it. So the more debates you diagram, the better you'll get. Then you'll start seeing patterns.

Then you can start describing the patterns. Then you can start predicting the patterns. And then you can make those shorter videos that say, here's where it all went wrong. Here's how to have a proper debate. You can become an educator in that style, entertainment, as they say. I see that. Yeah, yeah. If you're passionate about it and you keep going, I think you will.

I think it'll be tremendously popular. But also just need to get, it's not even that about, I suppose it is living the dream thing. It's like we want to make a living office. That's be the dream. But just the stimulation of it, I need to get back into that because it feels like it's missing in my life. where like I will sit sure I will put the time in for these streams but there's so much

more and so much more thinking that I used to do and that I was way more into. I was so much I was even more of a nerd when I was in college and things and and I'm I find myself way more ditsy than I was before and so all of this reading

that needs to actually occur as well that that's yeah you I'm feeling very positive and that I want to go in back into the reading the source material. And you're making it successful. I really appreciate your work. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, I'll throw out something to you, an idea that I've thrown out to others. So I interviewed a guy, yesterday, Friday. Friday for a show that's coming up this week. It's the next episode of Dreamscapes, which was last week.

So, anyway, I always record these in advance. Well, he was a, he's like basically a Norse, a Norse pagan, kind of in the shaman realm or a Vitki. I think is what he called himself kind of, or, or that was what he would call a wizard in the Norse. Anyway, he's more of a specialist in the North Norse mythology, as I would say it, not disrespectfully. That's his religion.

I offered him the opportunity. I said, you know what? So, okay, a little bit of backstory. This is what my brain does too. I'm publishing all the books on dreams. That is my augury, bibliomancy and chaos, the series, the ABCs of Dream interpretation. And I've got maybe another six titles to go. I've got at least six more planned after the 17th one, so I'll have like 23, and maybe I'll find more before then.

Okay, when all that's done, that's my primary focus. And it's going to take years. It looks like I'm releasing two books a year, so we're looking through or four years down the road, possibly. My next series, I want it to be called a wizard's guide to whatever. And the first one I'm starting with is a wizard's guide to ASOP's fables. That'll be my first work. Okay. I mean you talk about that.

Yeah. Yeah. And then I want to do a wizard's guide to Greek mythology because that's the one I'm a wizard's guide to King Arthur and the Holy Grail and that mythology around that. Yeah. And this is and it's all in service of this idea of common cultural experience and understanding, but also bringing people like with the ASAPs book, the psychology of ASAPs. Why? What do these mean based on what we know today? Why is this true?

Why was this always good advice for the last 20, literally like 2,500 years? Human nature hasn't changed in at least that long. Sour grapes is still sour grapes. Slow and steady, still wins the race, that kind of thing. Or it can at least, you know, give the consistency or the practical benefit of consistent effort rather than short bursts and losing interest. It's like. Yeah. Yeah, it's not new.

It's not new. It's just saying, yeah, I was reading the slight edge. where it was the book where you literally just explained that but this guy republished that book in 2010 or something like that it's the same people are just putting these putting these ideas into different that you just need to hear some some people just need to hear the idea in the way that that makes the most sense to them and then that's why jordan peterson has like resonated with a lot of people. Yeah.

Previous. Yeah, that guy put a lot of thought into these things and distilled them into some very easy to understand basic concepts. You know, and that's, I think that's what we're trying to do in becoming experts with something is first I'm confused, but fascinated.

Then I'm developing an understanding. Then I'm refining the understanding in my own mind. And finally, I get to a point where I can tell someone something in the most concise way possible that gets the point across, makes a complicated theory easier to understand. It's genius. I love that.

And then depending on the message, people like you or don't, based on their politics, it is what it is. Yeah, but the act of doing the thinking and getting all of that down is the real,

it's the real work. Yeah, okay, so all of that. All of that, yes. Well, all of that to say, I, so I offered, Now we're finally caught up to where I went back on the tangent. I offered you. I offered that guy.

I said, you know what? You are much more of an expert on Norse mythology than I am. Would you like to write a wizard's guide to the Norse gods or Norse paganism? And then I'll publish it as a part of my series. I'll be the editor, that kind of thing. So all of this to get up to throwing to you, you could be the author of a wizard's guide to having a debate. title title optional but you know I wouldn't be that person but yeah I know what you mean

maybe or all the ways you know debate disasters a wizard's guide to debate disasters how all the ways debates go wrong because you well now and again this is one of those things where I don't expect you to commit to that on stream this is not to this is not to put you in a corner or even believe yeah or even believe that you can do it because this is a goal to be worked towards in a way I believe you will be capable of that someday if you continue on this path.

And when you do, it's not a book I'm going to write. Might as well throw it out to someone else. Put it under the same series. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like the title, A Wizards Guide to Debate Disasters. That's kind of fun. I like alliterations and people like, oh, disasters.

I can tell you how a debate can go disastrous. Yeah. And it is literally doing the work. You're having fun with an audience as you diagram these things and, you know, and you're building that expertise. Yeah, I need to build the expertise. That's the thing. I'm having fun with the audience, definitely,

but I'm definitely not going in depth as much as I really want to. There's so much there. But I will not let go of my streams. That's the thing. I just need to put in the work, the other work, and then that book. But what I do want to talk about, okay, because we're talking about talking. what does all of what is all of the stuff that you've gone through what what is hair in the on the

tongue specifically because it's it's I'm plucking this hair because out of out of my tongue yeah so that so let's yeah let's kind of get into the dream thing here we got 59 was it 59 yeah sorry no that's that's perfectly fine this is it well and that's why I leave it free willy I mean I've talked to people for 15 20 minutes and we jump into the dream because they're short on time. We get all time in the world and we're having fun. I can go an hour. It's gone longer. I made one episode, three and a half hours.

Very, very unusual length of time. Not typical. Not going to keep you that long. I don't think. It goes as long as the dreamer has questions. I'm in for the marathon. So if they want to, you know, one and done, get quick compact. I can do that.

Okay. So you've mentioned that you've been having these dreams more lately in the last few months. Kind of a recurring series or they've come back in the past few months. It's compared to the previous, to the other kinds of dreams I was talking about. So it has been actually the past year. It's been longer than that.

I have a regular thing about that sort of thing. I wouldn't say like this, yeah. But I mean, the way that they just occur, it's an unsolved thing. Yeah. That's what I think. For sure.

It was something. something that is I have thought that it has something to do with being online maybe because sure because it has a lot to do with talking and I have this thing of like being torn between wanting

to create content just full time and just focus on that but then also having a day job but I don't want to shove that interpretation into the dream but the big the big mighty struggle that's within me now is that. But then the hair things did seem to,

it does seem to be about speaking and saying things. And one of the interpretations was it is it's like, people are lying. And I'm like, am I, what am I lying about? Yeah. That's where the dream books go wrong. It's like they're right about the mouth and the relationship to speaking. But why throw in people are lying? Where does that come from? Why is it? Why is that even relevant to you? There's a saying of this hair on a tongue or something like that. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. Something like that. But it's because there's a saying somewhere. Yeah. Well, if that's a saying you grew up with, that would make sense for you to possibly have that understanding in your mind. But so two things real quick is there is no, you know, said answer, but you can trust your gut in a way. I think if you have the intuitive sense that it has something to do with speaking and possibly related to being online, I think those are good directions to explore. We're not going to put anything on it.

That's how my process goes is like, that's great. You're feeling something. Your intuitions when it comes to this are usually, what do I say about it? So, okay, speaking to Sitch and Adam, I think some of the folks that listen to them and maybe even Sitch and Adam themselves, they're a little too much, they're a little too, dogmatic on the moral intuition thing. I mean, I think they've accepted that as the explanation for a lot of stuff when I'm like, it, it is a, it is a, there's truth to it. and it is a relevant factor to analyze.

I don't think it is the end all and deal. We are not all driven by our elephant and incapable of writing it with our reason or self-examination. And, you know, so we're not locked into those things. The way I understand intuition is, go ahead. be able to change how your intuition, like mechanism work. Yeah. Because people are capable of that sort of change and it does happen.

So yeah. Yep. And it may be difficult. And there may be a broad swath of people that they just, they just are their elephant. It just runs wild and they never questioned it. And maybe that's the whole NPC that can't imagine the image of an apple. Who knows? There may be certain people more or less capable of that.

But I think it's not a, it's not a fait accompli. You know, it's not a, you're not doomed to be driven by your elephant. Then the writer's just, oh, I wish I could control this at all. It's complicated. But what I say about intuition and my critique of it is that I think of intuition as a sign or a signal or a beacon. So if you, like a lighthouse, this was the analogy that came to my mind the other day. Your intuition is seeing the lighthouse. house. Like there is a coastline there. It can't tell you whether you want to go ashore. It can't tell

you where the best place to park your boat is. It can't tell you where the dock is. All it can tell you is broadly speaking, look over here. There's something here. It's so yeah, your intuition is like an indicator that there is something there, that there is some meaning. It can tell you what that meaning is specifically. That's how I understand intuition. That's where I go with my intuition is like, I follow things that seem likely. I pull it threads, so to speak, in the in the in the dream interpretation thing that that feel relevant to me. But what I'm going to find, what it's going to unravel, I have no idea. And I'm not asserting a specific answer. If I, if I give you three possibilities and you pick number two, then that's the right one. What do I know? I, I, I just gave you

opportunities and you, you made the decision. So long story short on that, If you have a feeling that it is related to speaking and it is specifically also connected to being online, that makes a tremendous amount of sense. This is your lived experience is being online recently and speaking. And so it's going to have something to do with this dream, most likely. Having a lot of focus on what I'm saying. Yeah. But what else would you think? What else comes to mind when it comes to this hair thing?

Well, so we're getting into. Because I've had this hair dream. before, before the YouTube channel and things like that, but I would say that there were more as that's coming. Yeah. When is the first time you can remember having it? Like the first instance, how many years ago? What time of your life?

How old were you? That kind of thing. I don't remember having it during school. So, okay, I am, I'm 32. So it's a while. You are not. I don't remember it. So it would be within the last 10 years, actually, I don't think I even had it in varsity. So, yeah, about 10 years. So I would have had it had it sometimes before there.

But so I would, so that's market. We say, no, not during school. You say it started after graduation from college. Yeah. definitely. You were looking for... It might have been as I moved out of... I'm not sure. But it might have been I moved out of my parents' home,

which was in 2019. Okay. Might have been. Yeah. But this... Yeah, it's such a visceral dream. As I keep thinking about it, I just keep thinking about how,

There's always just this thing in it. And I also, I know you're also a, are you a pimple popper enthusiast? Absolutely. I am not squeamish. Okay. So, well, it's basically, I also have this thing of just like, I have to pull this hair out. I do have, I actually do have, like, psychologically, I do have the, it just seems he to pull my eyebrows, eyebrow hair out and things like that. I believe they call it trichitillamia.

Yeah, that thing. I have that just as part of like a soothing gesture thing that I do. But so I think that could and be another relation like hair and pulling. Yeah, it could be related. The most natural thing about this is not about talking with hair in my mind. Nothing like that. So you see, it's not about talking and going, oh, no, I've got hair in my mouth. It's more like actually.

hair and I have to pull it out and there is the satisfaction of pulling the hair out. Okay. So there is a click kind of thing of pulling this hair out. Okay. And you do succeed. Yeah, I do succeed. Okay. Sometimes it's really pulling hard and I can't get it out.

But it is, it's not about having a hairy tongue. So that's, you know, that's also, it's literally, it's literally the focus. of this dream is very much so this action of pulling and having that like jerk of taking it out and then there's more and it's usually and it's also

I need to I need to make sure I get this out before people see me pulling this out. Okay. It's quite a strange thing that I don't know if it does involve the tricket tricket tricket tricket chick a bo-wow

I know. If that, that is related in some. I never thought of it that way. Very well. Very well could be. It's something to absolutely. We keep the field open for that and consider it. So just in terms of my process, my specialty, my best chance of success is to analyze a specific dream.

So getting into a broad swath of recurrent dreams without a specific dream to analyze can be a little difficult. So any of those instances you remember or that you're citing to me, if we went with just the most recent description, you have some vague impression that there was one instance where you were pulling it out and you needed to get it out before other people saw you. Do you have any imagery associated with that that we could start with and try and kind of look at it? And even if it's vague, it's okay. But we'll see if we can tease out a little more as we go. Um, well, I think it actually, it might have even been the person, the imagery of the person I was trying to keep it. I knew the person was trying to keep it from it. It might have been my husband. Okay. So can you tell me, if you tried to put it into a narrative and it can be literally 10 seconds long, what do you think?

I don't know if I'm putting it retroactively in the bathroom. I don't know if I'm putting it retroactively in the bathroom. I don't know if I'm putting it in the bathroom. I know I'm not helping, but I'm trying to think. You can't do this wrong. So do your best, yeah. Yeah, just instinctively, I think of being in the bathroom when you ask me that quick. And I think actually, which is very strange,

because then there is still this feeling that it's not just my husband, it's public. Sometimes it's public. Sometimes it's like somebody will, it's always a momentary sort of it's a very small short narrative of um um some some place okay well done since yeah it's some someplace and and it's and the focus of the whole dream mostly is the pulling out of the hair and the um and the fact of just getting it out sometimes it is uh just a group of people that i don't want them to see me like you know like um it's

it's like having something stuck in your teeth. You don't want to see that. So that's the kind of feeling. But then I'm pretty sure I've had an instance of like I was in the bathroom and I don't want my husband to see. But that might be, okay, another thing of just, I just have that where it's like if I am just in the bathroom literally waxing, I have that. That is literally, I'm like, my husband doesn't need to see that. Okay. So I have that like I'll literally, so that might be just the context that I'm putting on top of this dream. Yeah. Otherwise, I really just need to speak to you closer to the time that I have one of them.

I do have another dream that we can do because I just remember it from last night. From last night, literally. A completely different dream. I would. Yeah, let's do that. Are you okay? What's that? With that? Oh, absolutely. Go ahead.

While we're on the general bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's wrap that up first. Yeah, and then we'll get on to the other one. We can even take a break too. I might need to let the dog out to go pee. Yeah, yeah. You can do that now if you want.

Oh, no, no, no. We got a minute. But yeah, let's wrap this up and then we'll jump into the next one. Yeah. With the teeth, right, a lot of the time with my teeth, same sort of narrative of there's nothing really that's not like there's a story around it. it's mundane stuff, but then what I remember is pushing my teeth out of my mouth.

Like, you know, like when you, I don't know, I think I just have this memory of when I was losing my teeth, you know, as younger, you know, you like use your tongue against your tooth. Yeah, yeah, wiggily. Pushes out. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, eventually that, that happens. I either just land up, just pushing it out with my tongue and then spitting it.

a lot of the time. And then I'm then I'm panicking. Chinzi, you've lost your teeth. You've lost your, you don't. Oh my God, I don't have teeth. And then I have another tooth there. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And then it pops right back.

And then I continue. Yeah. Interesting. So that is, that's an interesting thing that happens. I've had other, other tea streams where I've been very scrambling to keep them. So they've come out. And it's very much, oh, Chinzi, you've lost your teeth. you need to keep them so you can put them back in.

And I would also be trying to also hide from people that I have lost my teeth. Yeah. That is a big point. We have a bit of connecting idea of public embarrassment, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the idea of I need to hide that my teeth have gone missing or I need to get this hair out before anyone notices. There's definitely not one.

to be seen in a compromised position of some kind. Exactly. And there's kind of this weird thing of there is also, so if I'm relating the teeth with the teeth thing that you know that I have that that recognition of, oh, you lost your teeth, but then, oh, wait, there's more. That's, I have a kind of like, wait, that's not normal. Teeth don't just grow back. But okay, I'm okay with that.

I have that moment of like that. In the dream? Yeah, in the dream. And with the hair thing, there is also the thought of other people don't have this. Other people don't have the hair. So, and it does differ from the teeth in that there's definitely a consideration that other people don't have this hair. Other people don't have this hair. Interesting.

Yeah, that's another layer. Yeah. But very, I don't know, I need to have a story. Because the story, clearly, if I remember this story around it, I'm sure it will help us. Yeah. Yeah, that usually gives us what my process tends to be is I, you start with the story. Here's what I remember. It's a short minute, two minutes, five.

One dream went on for 10 minutes. I tell the story. That's fine. And I'll write it all down. Then we go back through it again. We do what I call a deep dive. And we start going, okay, where did you appear? the first thing you remember in the dream.

You were in a room. Tell me what's in the room. And we start looking at that. So like the last week's episode, if anyone watched that by the time this goes up, he appeared in an apothecary type of shamean's magical work, alchemical workshop type of place. And this is actually based on a real life friend who was or is a shaman under this, under this mythology, respectfully. And does healing work and makes, carves totems and makes charms and, and makes charms and, and, different things. So we start there and it's like, okay, now, what was your experience in that environment? We go through each element kind of chronologically and try and tease up. And then when I

start asking about those things, they go, oh, and I remember this extra detail. And oh, I just thought of this other thing. That's when the, that's when the idea starts up. So without a story to work with, it becomes, we could talk very vaguely about stuff and I'm happy to do it. You've already helped me have a bit more of a grasp of what I'm even thinking about, what I'm talking about when I talk about these kinds of dreams, but I don't, I don't want to waste you on them now. We've got, you've told me that. And we can, I can call you up when I, when I have a story because, who knows what

even happens what my brain does with it now, because literally just having spoken to you about it, I don't know, because now my brain knows that I'm curious about certain kinds of, so I've got more questions that I maybe wasn't conscious of before. So we've played with that knots, those two knots, and I'm very satisfied. Well, good. Yeah, yeah. I think I've given you everything I can for now without more concrete material to work with. And that's perfectly fine.

I don't consider a time wasted. No, no, no, I don't either. I just, I thought, you know, and seeing as I do have a dream that I do remember. It suddenly came back to me, yeah. Yeah. We can just go through it and see what happens. It's very weird and funny. And actually, people will think I'm just.

making it up because it kind of, I can see why it happened the way it did. Okay. So, well, um, is it okay to, how much time do you have left? Do you have another hour or? Yeah, I've got another. Okay, good. I don't want to shortchange you at all. I've got, I got, I got plenty of time. I got, I got another two hours if we needed it. But I also don't want to, I don't want to shortchange you and I don't want to keep you longer than you're comfortable, that kind of thing. But if it's okay to just take a 10, um, leave the recording going. Now I'll just cut this out. Um,