Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 137: All In A Day’s Work

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

“To be passive is to let others decide for you. To be aggressive is to decide for others. To be assertive is to decide for yourself. And to trust that there is enough, that you are enough.” ― Edith Eva Eger

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of dreamscapes today we have our friend Lewis that is a pseudonym our friend is from nowhere'sville USA because we are protecting complete anonymity you see there's a little swirly disc over on the side this is a big deal if you want to get a dream interpretation you don't want your name face identifying information on the internet I can do that that's I'll talk to anybody and so yeah so you can see the exemplar happening right before your eyes but it still makes great episode and you can just You don't have to watch me. Who looks at me anyway.

You can just listen to the audio. Would you kindly like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers, viewers for the game streams, 16 currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent dreams in their meanings by Horace G. Hutchinson, that's book 16. Working on book 17, audio's done,

he's got to process it and all that good stuff. All this and more at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com and head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard.locals.com. Join the community there. That's where I'd prefer to. to receive any sustaining donations because they take less of a cut. They take the smallest cut of all the donation receiving platforms. So that's enough shilling.

Back to our friend Lewis. Thank you for being here. Yeah, we're back again. Good deal. And unlike some other episodes, we're not doing an interview portion. There's no books to shill. There's no, you know, a creator podcasty stuff. This is just random people got a dream.

So we're going to jump straight into it. And this may not be, you know, my typical. little two three and a half hour episode so uh basically i am ready when you are what what he got for me so this is about i'd say uh a three or four part dream that so first it was first it happened while i was sleeping at home then i then i got up went to work slept in my car until the shift started and had another dream and then slept on my break and had another dream then

and these all seemed to tie together even though they were hours apart so the first one was actually related to work I was I'm at work in my usual parking space

and this felt like it was real life honestly because nothing was different here except uh except maybe you know light in the sky it was darker than

it usually is at that time but uh and so the time was maybe say 4 a.m. or so 4.30 and I'm standing in the road

that because we park off to the side of the this little road that goes in through the facility and there's cars parked directly across from me. And I look forward, I look north towards the main building, and a car screeches off the lot,

and it just disappears, you know, behind me. I don't look behind me at all. and as I walk towards building I see a bunch of my co-workers and apparently one of the cars a couple of their cars were stolen

but only mine was left alone everybody else's car just disappeared except for you know the one right park right next to me I'd say and mine of course and

here's where I lose track I can only jump forward in this stream because I can't remember much right now but so we're on an airplane tarmac road

I don't know what you want to call it but it's not very busy at all there's no planes going about there's no other people driving around inside the airport and as we're in the road for some reason

there's this young young woman from India bothering me for some reason and she lays down on the floor all of a sudden

and has a leg cramp and obviously I remember how through sports how to you know get over leg cramps

right you I'm not going to explain the whole method, but you know, I'm messing with her leg to try and relieve the cramp. And as I finish up with that, I take a small step over to my left and her leg

comes off and starts to you know what if I'm go to cross the floor towards me. Like, you know, it's a, what was it? Like the hand that was in the, to the Adams family or the monsters.

I can't remember. Yeah, thing. Adam's family, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that. Okay. But I'm not shocked at all by this, even though it's out of the ordinary. And then that's when I wake up.

And then we continue off to, when I fall asleep again at work. So that starts, even though the setting completely changed, all the people in the previous dream were there again, except my coworkers. I mean, except for a few different coworkers, I mean. And we were sort of in this weird, in like my old math teacher's house.

and but it was a weird it was set up different completely different than it usually is you know in real life it had it was like this sort of

tree house type type of deal instead but the whole setup was still the same it's just it had no roof and the upstairs was connected by little you know

sky bridges or whatever you want to call them and as I'm in the living room I'm we take in these these two cats one's an orange cat another one's a white and black cat

and these cats are just impossibly adorable and as I'm playing with them you know my mom my mom doesn't like them at all because

you know allergies and whatever else and all of a sudden uh i can't remember what happened but uh those two cats had kittens and they looked kind of the same but you know a mix of both of their colors right and um i was playing with them and these these uh these kittens were extremely

affectionate and i was bringing them wherever with me And suddenly, as we were walking around the house, and I was taking with me, I go upstairs into this room that looked sort of like a, you know, Pirates of the Caribbean themed restaurant bar without a, you know, without a roof. It had barrels and fishing nets and whatnot in it. and I look around and all the cats are gone and I'm wondering where did these cats go? Where do they go? And I'm freaking out because, you know,

I just lost cats. You know, my, basically, they weren't my cats, but I considered them my cats. And then, uh, that's where that dream ended. And then, you know, I go to work.

And then I go back to my truck and fall asleep during my break. And then it continued. from there. Even though it's not really at all, it's still in this dream, it felt like, hey, this is a connection of the previous dream. I don't know how, but

I was at work in the hallway. And the main building is sort of shaped like an H inside, even though it's a square on the outside, but it's shaped like an H inside. To my left is the office. I'm in the main hallway, and to my right is

this room in real life to the right so actually first off I'm standing in the hallway to the right side in the hallway and I'm standing in front of the time clock and to my right where in real life

would normally be the break room instead it's this sort of weird tiled room that looks like a butcher's shop and there's this big you know burly guy standing there with a black apron

and black gloves and you know rubber boots on and he's he has a cow hanging from a meat hook you know I mean a dead cow obviously and he's you know he's cutting up the cow like that and

in front of him is also a steel non-forest table and that room has that room has orange tinged lights in it so it has this weird it gives off this weird weird vibe to it

and as I'm watching him do that he's done with the cow and suddenly he pulls forward this this dead body and it's this dead man I can this dead man was like

he looked like the the stereotypical you know hairy Greek man but he was dead obviously and he maybe the guy was the dead guy was

like 200 something pounds he had a large stomach I mean he didn't really seem like it was bloated from decomposition it was just the body itself was like that normally. And so he pulls his body forward and he,

he's about to start chopping it up, starting with the thighs and legs. And for some reason, I'm just washing him. I'm not surprised at all, but the first question I asked the guy, you know, the butcher, was weirdly, how big was his penis? And then he's he calmly responds back to me six inches. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, that was a completely normal question to ask.

And that's where that dream ends, you know, abruptly. Hey, good stuff. Two, four, making it over the time there. All right, we got lots of materials. You said, oh, this won't, this won't take you on. That's a lot of material. We've got three complete separate dreams that do seem all related. I mean, if they feel related, they absolutely are.

So we're going to do our best with the time we've got and try to give you a good answer. I don't know I tore off that page. I was going to start writing things again. Okay. Stay there. All right. So let's go, as they say, and Princess Bride, Vizzini said, we go back to the beginning. I love that.

I always think of that. Back to the beginning. A drunken Eagle Montoya. Okay. So in real life, these all happened across. the span of before you were sleeping at home, then you took a nap in your car at work

and then another nap on your break. And this is also a very common phenomenon in terms of we can not only jump back into dreams. I hesitate to say common phenomenon too much just because it is common enough to be known. It's a thing. It's not unheard of and it's not that unusual. But it is relatively uncommon

in terms of how many people actually do have continuation dreams. And how many people can have visually, what am I trying? Have clear remembrance. No, no, that's not even right. Fall asleep so quickly on a nap, on a break, that they can have a dream experience that's, you know, and again, that's also not unheard of.

But this is not the typical, typical dream experience in terms of people usually have one dream. They remember from the entire night and that's it. and it may be a lot shorter than this, but you've got, and you seem to be, you know, we've been in contact before,

a prolific dreamer. You dream almost every night and very intense and detailed. So, you know, for everyone out there, this is like, a, you know, fascinating,

a case study type of thing in terms of, you know, what happens when someone is such a prolific dreamer with intense visual imagery and detailed recall and the ability to fall right into sleep on a break

and have a, bam, a dream. Now, And again, it's, again, not unheard of in terms of, um, there's a famous case of a guy who had chronic nightmares of a skeleton that would choke him. And so he actually, and he was like a retired rich guy or whatever, military, I think retired, whatever. And so he paid a guy to stand by his bedside and just wake him up as soon as, as soon as it looked like he fell asleep. And, um, he fell asleep one night and had this dream that felt like it went on forever. And this skeleton was

choking him. And he couldn't breathe. And he was. And then the guy woke him up and he was pissed. He's like, why did you let that go on so long? Like I said, I woke you up right away. As soon as it sounded like you started snoring, I jostled you. That dream that felt like it lasted forever was all in the space of two seconds, maybe, for a minute at the most. I mean, depending on how long it took the guy to realize, how long you're asleep before

you start snoring, which is it was just kind of an open question. What is, when do we pass into dreamland? Long story short. So just kind of giving some context to the ideas around what are we dealing with. So anyway, it's all fascinating stuff. So because it makes a lot of sense that you're, you know, you're, you have work on your mind. This is, it's what you do, you know. And so dreams of work are not that uncommon.

And it's also a very common setting for life. of dreams in terms of you spend a lot of your life there you spend a lot of your waking hours um eight hours a day most of us uh doing what we do so that's going to be a lot of the questions and concerns we have it's also going to be a lot of the um imagery and and setting we bring to our dreams because that's where important things happen that's our livelihood or um you know our stresses or our aspirations or are there um okay so you're at work standing in a parking space is is the beginning of the first thing you're stream or standing in the middle of a road near a parking space yeah standing near in the road in

near the parking space okay so you put yourself in the road and this is not the first time you'd been in a road like the second dream also took place but like in an airport tarmac type area so another road so we've got this themes of um whatever a road means to me does anything come to mind when you think of a road uh like what a road is for what it means to you just any random stuff pop into your head? Not really. I mean, at work, all the roads that we, that the dream took place on and the road I was standing in was, you know, the road I get from my parking space to work actually. And then the second dream on the tarmac was the road we, we take daily to do our daily task. Okay. So these are, I mean, very definitely both roads associated to work.

where roads, excuse me, jebous, good, good one, huh? I'm not going to edit that out either. She's going to leave it in. These things happen. Roads are places of travel. They are connecting points between things. They are places of danger if you're not in a car. You know, it's a place where you would be at risk of being run over.

But it seems to be more, and if this makes sense to you, the idea of the path towards something, being on or moving towards something or being on the path towards something, especially related to one is the road to work and the other one is the road at which you work. Do the physical labor, so to speak. What do you think of that?

Seems about right, yeah. Okay. The sky is darker than usual. You are earlier. You are there earlier, maybe 4.m. Now you don't typically show up at 4.m. Yeah, no. I do. I show up early to work every day.

Okay. But the sky is darker. So you're actually there at the same time, but the light is different. Yeah. So it's a darker sky at the same time. Did you get a sense that it was later? Go ahead. It's like it's sort of how it's darker in the morning and winter.

That kind of sky, you know, instead of how it's semi-lighten summer. Okay. That's actually where I was going with that. I was kind of going to interrupt me anytime, always, always saying. Wait a minute. I just had an idea or shut up, Ben. It's okay. That, it's a different season.

Like this is another time is kind of where I was going to. There were two possibilities. And one is the light being an indicator of understanding in terms of the brighter illumination, the light bulb coming on in that sense. But also the brightness of the sky can give us a better ability to see. but I think I was leaning towards the other one that this is this is a time removed it's a different season you're you're not this is not present this is maybe future

past if that makes sense yeah but even though the weather was like how it is right now early in the morning it's just yeah the sky was winter darkness light you know yeah yeah yeah so this is um and I think if we merge those two ideas this is also where I was going in my head is it may be both at the same time. So this is you're looking into the past or the future because it's a different season. And the light is different, meaning you're, the, what you're seeing is more obscure. You have less of an understanding of it or you can't see it or grasp it as well as you wish you could.

Is this amount of something? Is that like, nah, you're not feeling it? Oh, I see where you're going. Okay. It's like the idea of obscured vision in a way. can't see as well as we wish we could yeah like with uh trying to figure out what's going on yeah yeah that's it and you're um but but you're also there at the typical time so you haven't changed anything you didn't arrive earlier in in like it wasn't set in present day summer

conditions and you're there super early that would have meant maybe something different in terms of you've allowed yourself extra time. There's something about, or you've dedicated extra time to this process. Showing up early has its own kind of meaning that would have been different, but it isn't. You see, there are cars parked across the street, and then there's actually the parking lot of the facility, or are those basically the same things? There's no parking lot, or is there?

I'll say again, that's probably going to make sense of it. Sorry. So what you said is, and what I wrote down, I may have gotten it wrong. You know, you're standing in the road leading to the facility and there are cars parked across the street in front of you. And that's like on the curb, lined up on the curb. Yeah, I mean, to try and put into perspective is this road is maybe no more than like 25 yards wide.

And there's not really any parking spaces. We're just parked along the fence and retaining walls. Okay. Gotcha. So when you mentioned parking space, not exactly like the parking lot with the white lines and multiple cars, gotcha. Okay, good.

So I'm actually seeing that differently in my head now. And so you're on this road. And what you're noticing is other people have. of and you're looking north and and there's suddenly a car screeches out so you're like witnessing something unusual number one I don't think you have or maybe you do have co-workers who typically take out of the parking lot like a bad out of hell because who who who quit in time and they just gun it and spin their tires and that's that's normal that's not normal no because and you know the the you know the man upstairs doesn't like that he gets pissed off when that happens. Okay. Has that happened?

And, you know, for a fact, he's like, don't, don't do that shit here. Yeah. I'm also making a note of that here too. Sorry. I don't mean to be too quiet. That I think is a significant idea. The reason why I was asking is, um, maybe that was a common thing. And the boss is like, I don't go, fuck.

You're off, you're off the property. You're standing on the street and do whatever you want. You want, you'll spin your tires. I don't get, I don't care. Um, that would make it a different thing. But it is specifically, this is something that you're, a reference from real life you're pulling into the dream to demonstrate something you're seeing that represented as something so here's something the boss disapproves of so this is not

something that's supposed to be allowed at work and it's it's almost in a way an indicator of something's wrong um this is not supposed to be happening this is not typical and then that brings to mind all these people's i'm noticing all these cars are gone and you know you just know they've been stolen yeah because uh all do you know the the usual people who drive them are standing around so i know and they they uh sorry and they they say that they were they tell me that they were stolen after the fact okay gotcha and it's the same difference they tell you you um you just know uh but but that's good too so you're having a connection with you with workers

The thing that came to my mind is that you're, you know, you're observing behavior contrary to the expectations of the boss that is also, and then immediately followed by that demonstration of worker, your coworker suffering deprivation or loss. I don't know if you, does that connect anything going on in the actual job? You don't have to get too specific, but other people screwing around causing problems. the boss isn't happy and it's negatively affecting you where you're I mean in this sense it didn't affect you but is it affecting your co-workers are you watching co-workers suffer job related stress or problems that shouldn't be

not at all see like we've I mean we had problems in the past but those have been been fixed like months ago so I mean I don't it's weird to have a dream this chaotic when everything is usually pretty order you know orderly and

at work in in actual life. You know, that may be relevant, the fact that it did happen once upon time, but it's been sorted out. What do you think about that? The thing that happened in the past, though, was about communication between, between one team and another team.

Okay. Not, uh, it wasn't like super related between actually losing, losing stuff. Well, um, but fair enough. And I'm not, I'm not trying to push this.

Uh, where my head's going is, is as much as a road is connecting links, vehicles can be representations of ideas, and even in the sense communication, could be, could be, just this is where my brain goes. If what you need for to communicate with someone is a pathway, an open dialogue, say, and a vehicle, you put it into words and those go through the air. It's like, you know, cars, almost like trucks delivering from a fact, a factory to a store. That's that's kind of an analogy for communication.

It's you load up this expression with meaning and it's a vehicle to move your communication along. So, and I'm only focusing on this possibility just because you mentioned that so that there was something, some kind of negative thing. The boss wasn't happening. It was negatively affecting the coworkers. And it isn't specifically stolen cars. I think that's all kind of a representation or analogy in your head.

I don't know all that shit that I just said I'm going to pause for a moment and let you kind of say your thoughts whatever they may be oh I see what you're getting at I don't I don't disagree with it I mean but I see where you're getting at and I probably have mull over it for a while sure yeah you don't have to have thoughts right away if you do share them if you don't that's okay okay so that's an idea that's fine um and all of this so you've set this at work in your head. I don't know that this is all what what the dream is actually about is work related at all, if that makes sense.

I think work is kind of the, like this dream could be taking, taking place in the Taj Mahal in India. It can be taking place in the Amazon jungle. And it's like the setting is matters, but you've never been there. It isn't really about that place. It's about the idea. So we're getting kind of connecting links that kind of tell us,

there's something going on there. So there may be something in another setting in your life, your home life, your social life, hobbies you're participating in, anything else. And we're making an analogy to, okay, this is like work. This is like I'm at work early.

It's the wrong season. I can't, there's not enough light to understand or see or, or, and it's like screeching cars. that were stolen. And then that's, I mean, that's your assumption too,

that the car that went screeching out is that there was a stolen vehicle. Yeah, and it's weird the car was stolen because we park in a secure facility. So, I mean, you have to wait for the gate to open, wait for the gate to close before you can come in and out, right?

Gotcha. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I would say, not surprising. The idea that,

Um, this is that, I mean, that lends more credence. I think the idea this isn't about work necessarily. You're showing even something that would be really unlikely at work because that's not how anything works there. You know, that's, there's a gate. Um, yeah, but it's, yeah, it's more of these themes of like, um, you know, a problem and co-workers suffering a loss or deprivation of their vehicle, their mode of transportation. Um, you know, it's vehicles can also be related to, you know, personal power in a lot of ways of, like there's something, say, in social terms, like, loserish of like the guy that's stuck

walking or got to take the bus because we can't even afford a car, you know, and then, then there's also the, you know, kind of the classic teenage male power fantasy fulfilled by a vehicle of being able to travel fast and have a muscle car and, you know, I can get girls and that kind of thing, you know, that's one way to, that's one way to go with it is, is those, those connecting analogies. So a car isn't just a car. like sometimes a cigar isn't just a cigar, so to speak. Yeah.

But sometimes it is. So, you know, I'm not. And again, if I ever try to go down a road or rattle the doorknob and you're like, that's, I'm not feeling it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think that's, that's likely. Okay. Where was that? But your car had been left alone. And there was maybe one other car next to you. So there's, there's an idea here, I think of, you know, you are personally unaffected by this.

You did not suffer the same loss as other people. and someone close to you also seemed protected from it. So this is, it's not you necessarily and it's not your immediate circle maybe. Do you know who that car belonged to? That was, you don't have to say, but was it someone you know?

I don't actually. The car that was next to me in the dream was completely, uh, wasn't a car that's actually owned by anyone here. Okay. So I don't know who it would be. Yeah, that's interesting, too. So why would that happen?

Why would there be an unknown vehicle, whatever vehicles represent here, close to you that is also unaffected? It could be a representation of randomness. Well, they skipped over me. But our dreams usually aren't that, I'd say random. It's like a reason why your car wasn't also stolen. It's like this is, so this is a phenomenon that. Oh, yeah, now I remember. Go ahead.

Because after that dream happened, I was thinking, I mean, in the dream, I was thinking, because the cars stolen were nice, you know, fancy, like, upper, you know, what do you call it? Expensive? Upper trim Mercedes or some, you know, shit like that. And my, my truck isn't really desirable per se. It looks like, you know, garbage. Yeah. You know, mine's, I also have a truck older, like a 93 or something, but because of the brand, it is a kind of a high theft thing because, you know, it's got like 170,000 miles on it, and it's going to run 350,000.

It's one of those cars that's still running after 30 years and we'll probably run for another 30 years. So that's why it's got, but it looks like a piece of crap. I call it from Saturday Night Live. I call it Urban Camouflage. Well, look at the truck. Looks like a piece of shit. Yeah, but it runs like a champ. So stay away from my car.

And I put the club on the steering wheel everywhere I go. Yeah. I don't mess around. I had a truck stolen once. Oh, God, five years ago for my work parking lot that was, you know, patrol by security, but not secure. They just, they just came on in and just gone. I came out for a lunch break and I'm like, did I park there? Where did I park today?

No, it's gone. So I know that, I know that pain. If you, so have you experienced, this is probably a stupid question. I think the answer is probably yes. you have had a car stolen or know someone who has no never no i don't know anyone who has it i mean i had my license plate stolen once but that was the only thing that ever happened okay fair enough i mean uh how old am i this i was i was just uh 40 years of my life i'd never had a car stolen finally happened um so i baby it wasn't a stupid question so this is actually a representation

of something that has actually never happened to you that may be significant in terms of using that as an analogy for whatever we're actually you know considering in the dream context but there there does seem to be something significant well certainly but but the idea that these are nice vehicles being taken and you were accidentally or or you know fortuitously unaffected because of your the relative status of your vehicle um so this would be some way of uh i don't know why you know first world problems or rich people problems comes to mind that concept like you're it's like a um what am i trying to say it's an accidental benefit of being lower class it quote unquote is that you don't have certain types of problems that other people

with more money or power or whatever deal with where they say more more more more money more problems that kind of thing so yeah yeah so there may be an element of that of that going on here of like because i'm not in whatever superior position has to deal with this type of of thing but you're witness more like witnessing a phenomenon that's definitely that's affecting other people in in a very literal sense is that your car wasn't stolen yeah thinking about that how did you feel about what you were witnessing were you you know scared happy indifferent no no feelings whatsoever yeah I didn't I don't recall having any feelings at all towards it neither neither did any anybody in

the dream really it's like oh Okay, this happened. Oh, well. You know, it is what it is, I guess. Okay. Interesting. I don't know what to make of that. It would be understandable that you would maybe have no emotion. Your neutral, dispassionate assessment of a situation you're observing. Fair enough. But they didn't either. They were like, whatever. So maybe you are witnessing some kind of a,

problem, maybe related to communication, that you're noticing as a problem, but not only do you not have any strong feelings about it, it seems like they don't care either. So maybe there's something going on with that. I don't know, phrasing it that way means anything to you, but brings anything to mind? Maybe so. Okay. Well, we could put a pin in that. And I mean, that's where that that thing and how did you how did you wake up from the dream uh an alarm like you set an alarm no i do what did i have an alarm where like if i was taking a nap in my car which i don't nap i can't but uh i would definitely set an alarm not to be for work it's just kind of a but i don't want oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i have alarms that's what well but did you wake up on

your own or did the alarm wake you because those might be separate things i think i woke up i usually wake up. When I first send an alarm, you know, I'll wake up with it. Then after a while, my body gets up like five, 10 minutes before the actual alarm rings. Okay. And that may or may not be significant, too, because what we've got is a situation where your dream was not necessarily interrupted by a sudden rude awakening. You weren't cut off from the chain of thought. It seems like it had actually naturally expired. And maybe you brought it to a conclusion because you're as, it's a weird thing. thing. How the hell do we do that? How do we wake up 10 minutes before an alarm? We are unconscious. How do we know what the hell of time it is? Yeah. We do. It's somewhere in our subconscious.

We've got this mental clock that tells us how long things have been happening. Not every, I don't think it happens. Just like you are a uncommonly ubiquitous vivid, high recall dreamer. I think there's people who are more and less capable physically. I think that's something about how your body is, your body and brain are physically constituted that gives you this ability in a sense that I lack. I do not, I do not have dreams I can remember every night. It just doesn't happen. I don't have dreams I can remember once every 10 years. I did start a new medication recently, which I'm, I'm having more recall that I had dreams. I know that they occurred and the imagery and the experience is gone, but typically my experience

is I wake up and it was just like from a coma, from nothing. Suddenly, you know, I blink. while I'm listening to, you know, stand-up comedy as I'm passing out, and then it's morning and my alarm's going off. I mean, all I have dreams and I'll get up and I'll remember them, but I get so busy, you know,

getting ready for like something, then I'll just immediately forget my entire thing. For sure. Yeah, yeah. No, that's okay. And that's no, but for me, it's like I don't even wake up remembering anything.

I just know that I was dreaming, which is actually unusual for me. So by it's very much all of this to say it's very much linked to biology. I think some people are built differently or everyone is built differently. So it's not unusual at all. We're going to have different experiences. Long story short on that, we have now kind of a, um, an interruption. And you've got things, uh, happening at work, um, physically in the real world that

causes a delay. And then it was a nap in your car. And, uh, You distinguished that from a nap on a break later. So this was your lunch break. You were able to sleep longer. It was kind of like I felt the third time was downtime. I'm sorry.

You were at home for the first section. Now you're napping in your car. So now you've actually gone to the physical location where the first dream happened. And that's where you're taking a nap before work. Yeah. I mean, that's it. In a way, it's like you're entering the space of the dream. You're early as you usually are and you're parking where you did and saw that stuff.

So there's, I would say almost there's not a, it's not a surprise that you would have this connection where you would go back into that dream because now you're actually highly queued to remember that vividly and to have that on your mind as you drift off to sleep. Does that make sense? Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. How often would you say you have dreams that are connected like this, that you go back to the same dream is this this is unusual yeah pretty unusual okay well good deal that i would think then maybe

the fact that it happened is related to being in that environment from the first dream's like wow this is where this is where that dream happened and so yes you're thinking about it as you drift off and anyway not not not all that um critical but but it does does give us an idea of why it prompted it and brought it back to mind um for the next dream but then be and and also the idea that being at work prompted you do dream of work is that uh would you say that's kind of a typical thing that you happens when you're at work and you kind of have dreams about work or work related or is it the opposite you kind of fantasize away from that and to you to get me out of here i'm on my break i don't want to dream about work i mean i wish i didn't dream about work

because it's like i'm out of when i leave work i don't want to be thinking about it but yeah it just happen. Fair enough. Yeah. And it's not, like I said, I think I said earlier. I don't remember it was before or after on this recording here. But we spent a lot of our time at work. I think it was on this. And we, it's not at all uncommon. We're going to dream about that if it's a significant part of our life in terms of that. So apparently the work you do is then related to working at an airport specifically. I don't want to get too specific necessarily, but we kind of got to know

maybe a little bit about the nature of the work or why would, what am I trying to say? I'm not trying to say anything about your work. I'm trying to say, and you did mention, I think, art of your work, at least currently, whether it is consistently or not,

is taking place near or around airport tarmac. Yeah. Okay, fair, fair enough. and you mentioned another road, but you said tarmac or road. If you visualize the airport tarmac, the reason they call it that versus a road is that that's where the planes land. It's asphalt, maybe, but it's the landing strip.

Yeah, the area where the planes are is, you know, that, you know, like, what is it called again? I can't remember the acronym. You know, area of operations. That's the area where I'm not, you know, average workers like us aren't allowed to go. You know, you have to be a plane or a cop or some fire, fire, whatever. I mean, it's the rows that drive around, you know, terminals and on the outer rims of that, you know, where I like all the tugs and refueling trucks and those things you see, you know, drive around.

Okay. So which area were you in? Were you in that area of operations? working no no no we were on the on the outskirts yeah it was it's the road that's inside the airport directly across on the other side of the fence from my actual work okay and then finding the um the woman the young woman from india she was on the tarmac area of operations area or on the your side of the fence outside that area Yeah, she was on the, she was on a little road.

Okay, so she was also outside, but, but near. Okay. And I want to gloss over this too, but there were no planes, no people, no one driving. I mean, there were, it was me, you know, that, that woman and a couple other of my coworkers, and we were just standing around there for some reason. I don't know why. We weren't doing anything. It was just we were there.

And what I wrote down was no planes, no planes, no, people no one driving um yeah no no uh no background you know NPCs for say sure sure sure sure but also like so you're at an airport but there were planes do you mean there was no planes and people moving around like in the distance you could see there were planes but they were parked or they're gone no planes yeah they were parked okay okay got you so a roughly typical setting but no activity

there's a lack of activity of people moving around okay right right and this young india woman was not a co-worker you know from your life was she a co-worker in the dream no not at all she was a random person any

visual representation of her long hair short hair tall short person. I'd say five foot seven straight black hair. Not exactly. I want to say she was from from,

from, I want to say she was Bengali. But at least that's what came to me in the dream. But say her skin tone more closely related to like a Punjabi. These are, it is interesting that you would have that thought, because I might have a vague concept of, say, an Indian actress that I saw in a recent

movie. And I'd say, oh, yeah, she looks Indian. I mean, but I couldn't describe why. What, what is it about her? Like, I'm like, she just looks like that's where she's from. That's what people look like from there. But you're like, you've dialed it into actually a kind of a region. Do you have a fascination with that area? Do you know a lot of people from there? Do you live in a neighborhood where that's more common? You can tell the difference. Like, I can tell the difference between someone from Vietnam and Japan. But I couldn't tell you who's from, uh, Bengal or Punjabi. I couldn't.

I couldn't tell you. But you can. I mean, generally it's, it's facial features and skin tones. Like, I mean, you can tell the difference between a,

for example, somebody from Vietnam and Cambodia, just by their face. And the same kind of deal with, uh, with, uh, a Sri Lankan and,

uh, you know, a northern in you know person from the northern Indian subcontinent sure well I think that is something you have a better

facility with that is that is an ability you have that I lack because I've met more East Asians I've not met that many people from different parts of India to have that knowledge so it would be very reasonable for me to say have a dream and there was a Chinese man

and a Japanese man and they were having an argument about something and they were represented different ideas in my head, a conflict of maybe philosophical views based on a book I've been reading. And I would know the difference. I could tell them on site. But, um, so the, the thing would be to maybe try to dial in, why did your brain want to represent this person as a specific type of Indian, uh, versus versus Japanese versus some white guy? I mean, it's a female. She's from India.

There's something connected to all of that. So they would be like, obviously, this is where I was going with all the, like all that stuff is there's a reason you are have that better facility. You've met more folks from that from that area. You live in maybe a high immigrant population area, lots of Indian people. I don't actually. It's just usually all like a, I'll assign. not not a not in a bad way but a you know a label

no like oh okay this this person is so I mean so I can understand them better like you know if okay this person's from Cambodia right this person's Vietnamese this guy is Filipino okay this person is from from Goa you know whatever

and this is in real life you do that to to help you get to know them better like as a part of like building building their D&D character sheet in a way it's like there's their history and their culture etc. Yeah.

Yeah. I just I suppose trying to dial in why this wasn't say a Cambodian man. But it is specifically an Indian woman. I wonder if there's and from a specific region. So any exemplars from your real life? Have you met someone from from there

that was specifically female? No, I mean, you know, I know, I mean, I met a few guys from other parts of India, but nobody, you know, Bengali. Okay. Any particular associations with that, with that region in your mind or with, like, did you recently discuss or consider someone's, here's someone explaining their Hindu beliefs, say, specifically religiously. And they mentioned that place. So that place then gets connected with religious beliefs. with Indian people and bam, we got a connecting train to the why this woman is, is specifically from that area. Not at all, which is the weird part. Yeah.

So you, you've got some associative connections with India. And it could have just grabbed random words that you kind of know. And distinctions you've picked up on, they're like, oh, yeah, I can tell the difference. Okay. So, well, well, she was this kind. Fair enough. I've seen that type of person before, at least I know what it is. But it seems like it wouldn't be, like you wouldn't pay attention to that.

You wouldn't remember it. It wouldn't be a detail that comes out if it wasn't connected to some concept of why that particular person needed to be the vehicle or exemplar for the events that followed. So let's let's break away from that just because I think we've, I've asked you as many times as I can in different ways. And I mean, there's an answer or there isn't. or we haven't found the connecting trade yet. I think it's related to the behavior. So keep, keep all that in mind as we,

as we go forward to discussing the, um, circumstances. You said she was bothering me. So what was she doing that was, you know, like, we're talking bothering harassment.

She wasn't exactly, her presence was irritating. It was more like, uh, more like trying to talk to me while I wasn't paying much attention. In, uh, For the beginning.

Okay. So there was again, here we go again. We got a theme of communication. She is trying to communicate with you. And in the beginning, what are you doing? Are you saying you're kind of just hanging out, not doing much? But were you preparing to work? Were you there to work?

What was on your mind in terms of why you were there? What was the purpose of being at that location? That never occurred at all in the dream at all. It's like I never even thought about that. there was no indicator like, hey, we're here because of blah, blah, blah. There was nothing like that at all. There wasn't even a connection of, I'm at the typical job site. Of course, we're here to work.

That actually didn't occur to you at all. Yeah. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. That's, keep that in mind, too. That's its own unique thing. You're in a work-like environment, but not actually there to work as far as you know. You're just there. There's no other people except you,

a couple of coworkers. Yeah. Okay. Any, you don't have to say, of course, their names or anything about them, but people,

those specific people at work, how do you conceive of them or feel about them? Are they typically people you interact with much or get along with or have positive or negative feelings about? I mean, I don't, I don't really talk to them because they're in a different, you know,

uh, what you might call it? Different positions than we are and they have their own little, work area than we do and they do different stuff. So, I mean, I don't really know them or talk to them much at all. Gotcha. And then we're kind of back to communication as well. You're actually with people you don't talk to.

You don't have a regular dialogue with people you don't. I mean, I'll talk to them if something has to get done. But other than that, it's, hey, I'm not there to, you know, chit chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, there's, yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, Let's say you're on a work crew and it's the same five guys every day, five days a week, eight hours a day. Yeah, talk to each other. It's going to happen.

Then there's people from other departments that you don't know and you have spoken to them, but they're relative strangers. You know them on site. You know what they do. You know what their function is. You get a little feel for their personality. But it's not someone you talk to regularly. It's not someone you have a strong connection with. So you're actually there with people that in the work life social sense.

They're not in your social circle. yeah okay so yeah you've got someone uh and then and then you've also got this gal who's unknown she's not she's not a coworker she's just there and she's demanding your attention she's trying to speak to you and you at first you're disinterested or not paying attention um don't really care what she has to say that you're not looking at her like this is unusual i better focus and see what's happening i mean i was listening but i wasn't fully in you know investing Okay. Kind of passive listening, not invested. Gotcha. Yeah, and there's a difference. I think that's a great, a great distinction because when we are really focused and attentive, that's a big deal. That's like,

and then there's kind of like, you know, I'm being polite. You're talking, I'm not ignoring you, but I don't really care and you're just kind of babbling. Any idea of what she was trying to say. Like, Did you miss part of it in the beginning? And then you kind of caught on. It was something important or any idea of what she was trying to say? Probably at the time, but I can't remember anymore. Okay. And it might actually be unsurprising that you don't remember because you weren't actually paying attention.

The important factor was that she was trying to communicate and you weren't actually listening. I think that might have been the takeaway from it. That might be what you were meant to get is. something something like that so how how did it come about that she suddenly had a leg cramp what was she doing or what were you doing at that moment um were you uh did you suddenly that oh go ahead that that happened with the um the conversation was basically finished and i started to walk away and that's when it happened so you're you say conversation but you weren't actually talking back to her.

She was just talking at you and you were aware of it. Yeah. And you were starting to move away from her? Walk away? Yeah. Okay. And then suddenly she collapsed to the floor or lay down on the floor. How did that happen?

Yeah, laid down slowly like it was, you know, beginning. Was she physically? Oh, no, I didn't ask how was she dressed? anything unusual, you know, pants and a t-shirt, um, a sundress, um, head-to-toe, burka, whatever. Yeah, pants and t-shirt, nothing. It's pants and a shirt, gotcha. Just for my own visualization.

And it might have been she, well, you know, now that you think of it, she was buck naked. Oh, fair enough. That could have been a thing. And, you know, it might not have occurred to you to have that really stand out. But anyway, long story short. Um, was she dressed as you or your coworkers would typically dress on the job when you were going out to do work? No. Okay, fair enough.

Um, so we've got, it's just an interesting thing. I want to kind of feedback to you and encampalate. We've got this Indian woman who you don't know who's not a member of your work crew. You are at a work site, but you're not there to work necessarily. You've got coworkers there. you're not in frequent communication with. You're not close to socially. You're not really having a conversation with them either. You've got her talking at you in a way that you're not really focused on or attending to. You're not telling her to shut the hell up. You're not doing anything

to make her stop. But you're also just, you don't even care enough to remember what she said. Whether that's, you don't remember it now or in the dream, the point was you weren't actually hearing her. Nothing stuck. she stops talking. She stops. She either finishes what she has to say, or she realizes you're not listening and she just stops. Either way,

the speaking, the attempted communication ends, you go to move away and in my mind, this is like an attention escalator. Oh, I've got a cramp. I've got an emergency. Suddenly pay attention to me.

Now there's a, almost like almost, almost manipulative, but maybe not. Does that make sense? Yeah, it didn't feel manipulative, but I can see what you mean. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing. So we might imagine a person doing that of like, oh, you're, let's say let's a kid of like,

mom, mom, you're not listening. Mom! And then they escalate. They yell to get that attention. So whatever this image is in your dream, whatever it represents. is escalating to get your attention. It's like there's a new crisis here. You're not listening to my words. Let me have a physical crisis that grabs your attention that shows you as a problem here. Baby girl, you're laying on my notes. You can't be there. You can't be there. You got to move.

You got to move. There you go. Lay right there. That's fine. That's fine. Anyone listen on the podcast? Yes. I've got a cat on my notes as usual. Um, anyway, that's where I was going with all that. Uh, and it turns out that it does succeed in grabbing your attention. This, this escalation of, of crisis. Uh, it goes from a, a, something you can ignore to something you feel like you can't ignore. Right. You get that feeling in, in the dream. Yeah.

And, and what is, so you're disinterested or indifferent when she suddenly collapses, even if it's a slow controlled, ah, wow, ow, how, how, how, how, when she. she sits down. How did you feel? Did you have, you know, when that grabbed your attention? I mean, ultimately you intervened. You went to render assistance. Any emotional connection to rendering that aid? Not really.

It's just more like I saw it as it. Okay. I have experience with how to, how to solve this. Let me, you know, show you how. So you can do it in the future, I guess. Okay. Yeah, and that is interesting that this, whatever this person represents, they're giving you, they're grabbing your attention in a way that you are capable of responding to.

I mean, she didn't suddenly, her head didn't pop off and float away and you're like, well, fuck, I can't fix that. She specifically had a leg cramp, which you know how to deal with. And that got you involved as in a help providing possibly teaching capacity. is like that seemed to be a dual purpose there of like let me show you how to fix this so you can do it yourself if you need to in the future okay and then i i assume there's uh well i've had leg cramps before it's a stretching and massage you kind of work work work the muscle loose yeah i mean as what we used to do is you you know you put the leg out straight

you know the foot facing up and you from the bottom you're pushing inward yeah you know like you're up towards you and then you know you're putting it up towards you and then you know you This is specifically a calf cramp she had. I think so. I can't exactly say if it was or wasn't. Or it could have been a hamstring, but I mean, it wasn't the quad. You weren't bending the leg backwards to loosen the quad or stretch the quad. Yeah.

Cavs are the number one, I think, cramping muscle, which is really weird. I'm damn near, you know, almost 300 pounds, like 280 or something like that. I can on one foot lift my entire body with the hinge of my ankle using my calf. That is a powerful fucking muscle. That's, I don't even get it sometimes. Our legs are so strong, especially that. And it is because it's a very dense muscle that contracts very strongly. And it doesn't have to move very far to work the hinge of the ankle.

So it actually has a tremendous amount of leverage. Just the, just the budge body mechanics blows me away. Just like sometimes I think about it. Wow. It's like, you know, Babi's first philosophical epiphany. But that hits me all the time. So you go down there. and help her straighten out her leg and do the stretching.

And what is her response to that? Does her demeanor change? Does she do anything? Say anything? The usual wincing, nothing more. Okay. It's kind of a normal pain response. And then you actually, your efforts are successful.

You relieve the cramp? Yeah. And then once that job is done, then you get up to walk away again? I sort of begin to by, like I said, sort of scooching to my left. So you're like making motions to prepare to get up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Start to move away and get up. Again, so you've approached because the problem, whatever it is, whatever she represents, has shown itself.

first it spoke to you that wasn't efficient or effective then it had a quasi medical emergency that appealed to your expertise to attend and make an interaction with it then when that was resolved um it still kept coming for you that now it escalated to the bizarre now the leg but we're talking about the head pops off now the leg pops off and starts crawling towards you yeah i don't know what that that was about and it was specifically the cramped leg that popped off. Yeah. Yeah. So she had no, no reaction to that at all. Like, like, absolutely no reaction. Yeah. And that's a very bizarre thing and a very disturbing thing.

Like if I'm just sitting here in real life talking to you and suddenly, oh, my leg popped off. Uh, well, anyway, now I'd be like, what is happening? I'd lose my shit. Uh, so, uh, the fact that she was kind of blasé about it, um, that might be an interesting point. But it's definitely, it's, um, your attention is, is getting focused further and further down on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on intensely. You okay, baby? Sometimes she has these coughing fits. Got to cough up some hair balls. Come on, boo boo. Okay. There'll be a weirdo somewhere else.

Come on. Come on. We might get a hairball on stream. Um, yeah. And, and again, it's so focused from, from, from her words and her general presentation down to a specific kind of crisis, um, interactive. emergency thing. And then that leg that got cramped that you fixed pops off and tries to come with you in a way. It's like, no, I'm coming with you in a sense of like or I'm coming to you.

You got to move, bobo. You got to go. That's enough. I love you. It's not. Can't lay on my notes. And you were rather shocked. You're like, this is not right. That's not supposed to be happening. Or no, no. You said other people were not shocked.

was not shocked that's what you were saying yeah how did you feel about it were you like whatever or were you like that strange or were you like oh my god how did you feel yeah it was strange but not exactly horrified or shocked or anything like that okay yeah there's something about like um a narrowing of attention too it's like once you failure of attention a a successive attention and then a narrowing of attention on this very specific thing that's like, what's the takeaway is the leg? It's going with you. It's going with you to the point of popping off of her body. And like that, that's the real important part. So there's something about the leg, the cramp, the experience that's all analogous or related to something else. And it seems

to be in your expertise. It seems to be in an area you actually understand and could do something about and that you're going to take something away from the experience. I don't know if any of that is inspiring any thoughts. I was trying to encapsulate this for myself too. Maybe. Maybe. Some things you would rather not say or you're just not sure what to say. Yeah, not sure.

Okay. Fair enough. We might just be pointing you in the right direction of where to continue considering. It's hard to get some of these things dialed in. but then again we're not there yet we're not to the very end so so we might go back and there's a ends up being a connecting thread this time how did the dream end in terms of alarm woke up on your own etc which one was this uh this was the nap in the car before work oh yeah this was uh this was like i think it was a couple of minutes before my alarm again okay

So what, yeah, so it feels like whatever you were considering that was the end of it. That was the final vision. How long did that going to move and the leg crawl towards you segment of this, this dream? And in terms of were you, did you walk pretty far on the lake and I hopped after you? Or what was that experience? Like you said there was more like a crawling type of thing like the like the little toes were making it walk. Oh, like I mean like a sort of snake, snakeish. Was it doing like an inchworm thing or kind of a ziggie zaggy, snakey thing?

Yeah, kind of like a slither or trying to it. Interesting. Interesting. I mean, how would you imagine a leg would work? Hopping came to mind. It pops off her body and then to towing, to towing comes after you. That's, I'd see that in my head. The other one is like it would, you know, bend at the knee and it would grab with a heel and pull.

Or it would be standing and walking on a. its little toes. Who knows? That's why I want to get yourself. It's more of a snaky thing. It's kind of slithering after you. Any associations with snakes? Like them, hate them.

Not really. Have you handled snakes before or would you? No, I never had. I never even. Truthfully, I've never thought about snakes at all until you've just mentioned it now. Any strong associations pop in your head in terms of I like snakes? I don't like snakes. I would like to touch one.

I would never touch one. What do you think? I don't really have any opinions on snakes per se, I'd say. Okay. Kind of also. You said they're kind of cool. No, I mean, I said they just kind of, you know, to me, they, okay, a snake exists. That's how it is.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. And again, this may have been like, well, your brain says the leg is. the leg's going to move and you're like, how does a disembodied leg move? Like a snake? I don't know. So it may, and the fact that you're indifferent about it is kind of like, whatever,

maybe it may have just been, you're going to represent it to yourself somehow. There are elements and dreams that are like that. It's like, so I went to the airport. I'm like, well, how did you get to the airport? I mean, I don't know. We were just there. I, we drove. I don't know.

I'm like, okay, never mind. How did people get to the airport? How did you get to where you were at with this work scenario? You didn't mention transportation at all. I assume it's not, not that. relevant so not not a big deal um on to the third part here one two three so you okay so the first dream you were sleeping i was mischaracterizing this earlier the first dream you're at home you're sleeping um second dream you you take a nap in your car before the start of work now you've got the

phase where a bit of work time and experience intervenes between the second dream and the third dream third dream is a nap on a break and you how long was that five or ten minutes or what between the second and the third that was maybe between uh six and seven 30 at least what what times your work typically start if i'm there uh my alarm goes off at um five twenty five i'm in work at five thirty five and then if I don't have anything right away, then yeah, I go back to sleep in my car. So this is between one and two hours later. Or about half an hour, I'd say, 45 minutes. Oh, okay.

So you'd barely started your workday at all. And you were like still kind of sleeping. And you're like, ah, fuck it. I'll take a break. Yeah. Okay. So not a lot of work time had elapsed. Without being too specific, perhaps for your anonymity.

How would you care? What you did in that time. I mean, is there a little bit of a routine? I mean, of course, you go to you clock in and then you go to a specific location in the building and that's where the work is supposed to occur and work did or didn't occur. Because it seems like very quickly you realize what I'm supposed to do is not I'm not able to do that yet or I did everything. Yeah. I mean, uh, as I go into work, I hear my, uh, our shift here's the the pre shift briefing or I mean, you know, the daily briefing in the morning. safety briefing or whatever. And then you get, hey, you're on this task today. You're on this task today. And if you're on, say, this task, most of your day doesn't start until the actual sun is up because you need to have, you need to perform visual checks on things that needs daylight. Fair enough. So you, the only thing you did was attend that briefing or meeting.

and then your assigned task was not scheduled to begin for a short period of time. She's like nap time. I got the ability to take a breath. Fair enough. Yeah. And then apparently the work doesn't care because they're like, yeah, you can sit in a chair over there. You can sleep in your car for 10 minutes, whatever you want to do. I mean, they don't like it when you go back to sleep.

I mean, I could get fired for sleeping again. But it's like if I'm in my car, they don't know where I am. No, that's very true. Okay. So that might actually be a relevant type of thing. you're getting away with something a little bit that was a little bit risky, but you're like, I'm just tired. I just need to close my eyes for a minute.

And what I would do is, of course, deny sleeping. Resting my eyes, resting my eyes. Yeah, yeah. I was awake the whole time. That's one of the guys at work, you know, he's like, oh, I wasn't sleeping. I was praying. Right? Absolutely.

Head, head down in very serious prayer. Okay. So this dream, you said something about all the same people, but a few, but not a few specific coworkers at this house. So I forgot the connection to who all the same people were, like from the second dream or the first dream, the ones that have the car stolen. Who are? Yeah, the first. All three had the same people in it. It's just that some were missing in the third.

okay gotcha well some were missing in the second like you were out there with just what a couple other people oh yeah yeah yeah it was even less people in the third so how many people are in the second dream total and then how many are in the third about maybe like six in the second and only three or half that and like uh the third and the young indian gal was not there right she was no more okay and these uh three people so if you narrow so we keep narrowing it down there's that there's a problem that affects a lot of people multiple stolen cars met more than more than six uh only uh either two or three were stolen okay so it actually

didn't affect that many people but but still the problem um yeah i didn't ask how many cars ask how many cars are stolen. That's a, you know, how many people were affected. So there was, but there were more people visually present in the first stream, less than the second. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now we're narrowing it down even fewer. Almost seems like you're narrowing down is, you know, it's less and less people. So it's more maybe about these specific people. So there might be a need to kind of say a little bit of, without identifying features, kind of hard, hard to say sometimes. Um, if this was private counseling and therapy and we were doing an actual session, you can tell me their names, home address, you can tell me everything.

It's going on the internet, so we can't do that. And you, your anonymity, that kind of thing. They haven't given permission to talk about them. Um, so it's a very different restrictive context, but there's probably going to be something related to why those people. And it's still people from another department. It's not your direct coworkers. Yeah. Um, there might be something related to.

the department they're in. Did you say something about that or not? I don't know if it's like we could be vague about it too. You could say, you know, I'm in shipping and receiving there in accounting. Is it okay to say what they were in or the type of work they do? They're the maintenance team. They're the people who actually, you know,

fix shit that's broken. Okay. And you'd say that's a critical part of what you do in terms of like they're not just, you know, janitors and facilities guys. They're like they maintain the equipment you use when you're out in the field. Yeah. Okay.

That's an interesting connection too. So these are the people that if they don't or can't do their job, you can't do your job. Right. But they're not, you're not close to them. They're in a different department. You've had communication. You rely on them in a real sense, even though you don't spend a lot of time working with them directly. Yeah.

that's interesting too so was it um primarily maintenance people that got their cars stolen in the first dream yeah because there i mean there's most of the people in my ship don't have nice cars it's only maintenance so this is actually kind of drawn from from real life in in that sense um not everything yeah but very interesting so we've got yeah some things i mean i don't know if anything is starting to come together for you you certainly see a thread running through the dream maybe do, maybe you don't or it's nothing's inspiring. For me, it's still kind of vague, but it's there. I see something. It's like discerning an animal trail in the woods. Like, I think that's a rabbit trail, that kind of thing. I don't know if anything comes to your mind. Not really. I don't,

explain what you're, you're thinking of because I don't, I don't know what, uh, well, this is, this is kind of, this is kind of why I talk out loud because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about at all. But I didn't know, and I didn't ask. And it, just came out that it's the maintenance guys that got their cars stolen. It's the maintenance guys that were with you out on the tarmac at the airport. It's the maintenance guys now that are with you in the math teacher's house. This is all related to that. Now, it may not be related to them, but what they represent to you as from the work environment, the nature of how you rely upon them, the nature of the work they do that makes your work possible. Maybe a, a,

a bit of a class envy type of thing of like they get paid more than you, they can afford better cars. So there's, there's that probably we're talking about the problem of, well, this is a problem that didn't affect me because it's affecting people of a different type. And one department to another is a different in type or class. Your class is this type of worker.

Their class is a different type way. So it doesn't have to even be a rich and poor class type of thing. And so you've got these people affected by having a, a loss or deprivation in the first dream. You've got them present at the second dream with the lady who's trying to get your attention. And they're kind of not involved, but they're present. It's still related to them. And there's a bunch of them there.

And they normally wouldn't be with you on a job site. They would be at the place maintaining the things, right? Right. Gotcha. Okay. So we haven't. So that's just the first two dream. Now we're getting into the third.

And it's the same people, but it's fewer of them. It's actually some more specific people. I would say there's a, what I'm trying to say is there's a bit of a narrowing here, which it's focusing your attention from the big picture to specifics in a way. And it's doing that also by narrowing down the number of people you're considering until in this third dream, you've actually just got a couple of specific people that might be iconic of the type or that you've had the most interaction with or that you were most impressed by their skills or that you thought were the biggest assholes.

I'm trying to think, how do we care? characterize why those two people or the however many or the three of them would would be with you in this final final segment specifically I'd say they were they vaguely looked like the ones that I've had the most interaction with but they were still kind of faceless per se okay so they so you knew them as as members of the maintenance team, not necessarily as specific people from that team, but you knew they were the people that you were, and I'm not trying to say closest to, because that's not the right way to characterize it, but we're in the horseshoes and hand grenades ballpark there, but it's the people

you're most familiar with. Does that feel right? Okay. Yeah. Because, you know, again, if they were from accounting and you've met Jim and Sarah, and they're the people you're most familiar with. Now, you know the other people, at least on site. You maybe haven't met him or talk.

Or you talked with them at Christmas party once and not since then. And you work in the same building every day. There were people I knew, you know, 10 years ago from work that I worked in the same building with them every single day. I saw them maybe once a month if we crossed paths. But I knew them. I just didn't know them very well. And they weren't very representative of anything. Yeah.

So it's more rather than specific people, we are looking at the idea of this, this. department within work that is connected to your work that you rely on but don't have a lot of communication with. So there's some connecting thread there too of this. This is all, it isn't even necessarily about work. It could be, but I don't think it really is. I don't think you were dreaming about these people for a reason that's connected to work specifically. It doesn't feel like it so far. Maybe, maybe. But more like the idea that they represent and how you're conceptualizing it in terms of whatever other problem it is that you might be trying to work through. you're putting it into this symbolic representation.

It's like this. It's like this story I'm telling myself. Anyway, long story short on that. So you're in your old math teacher's house. Now, how far back does this go? We're talking high school or? Wait, say again. Oh, the math teacher's house.

Oh, yeah. This was math, I mean, math tutor. Sorry. Um, this was she back in good Lord, maybe first grade, kindergarten. Wow. Okay. I was thinking maybe, you know, high school, middle school, elementary, late late elementary, but you, you, you had a, um, math tutor at as, as, as young as, you know, five and six years old. Yeah.

Well, I'm going to guess you probably like me and a math tutor. didn't come easy. I'm not a math magician. Yeah, I mean, because in first grade, they were teaching us multiplication and that, you know, when you're that young, it's like, what is this? Wow. You know, I don't remember that being a thing. I don't know that we ever did. I think we're still working on additions and subtraction. Uh, were you in some kind of a, you know, that may not matter. I was going to say, you know, uh, accelerated program or then I was going to ask like school district. Oh, no, not at all. You know, this was just just common. This was just, uh, this is what they did. They started teaching you and you just weren't

getting it. So, you can get a tutor, right? Um, I think that's more the idea we're dealing with is remember when you were very young and you had trouble learning something. And so you had help it. Go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, I mean, this is related to the cats because the math tutor, had cats that we would play with. Now it makes sense. But I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Well, no, no, no, for sure.

Stop me any time and throw that in there. You know, in real life, he had, he had cats. And that was probably something you enjoyed about going over to see him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're getting into that, that range of, you know, it isn't really about him or his house necessarily. It's more about your experience of it. thinking back to a and this may connect to the larger threat of the whole dream it's there's something about communication attention understanding these these are themes going through the dream um and the next link in the chain so to speak is now you're considering a time when you had difficulty grasping a concept you know receiving the communication of it in a way that makes let you understand um so there's there's something something going along there uh going along those lines um

And yeah, this one was like, I wrote down lots of details on this thing. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Oh, Jesus. Okay. I'm way ahead of myself in terms of like we're just now starting on the second dream. This is the second dream. All that first dream was the first dream, right?

Jesus Christ. I even wrote her down with numbers and I got, uh, you were at work. They were stolen vehicles. Then you're on the airplane tarmac and the leg crawls towards you. Bam. Second dream. second dream starts with is nap in the car before work right and the third dream that's nap on the break is you're in the work hallway so this is actually before you do fuck me this is even

before you started work um this is all still happen and it may not be i i don't think we i don't think we drew any conclusions from the timeline so it's it's i was just trying to get it straight in my head and i apparently i still didn't i need a freaking tutor how to how to pay Okay, so, um, and you said it's set up completely differently and you said it's like a treehouse, but you didn't know that until you got upstairs, right? That's where the treehouse portion began and it looked like Pirates of the Caribbean. Right. Okay.

So the, the place you are originally started was more of a normal looking, his normal looking room, uh, living room. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that's where the stuff with the cats started. It was in that living room space. No, the stuff of cats started up.

in a bedroom upstairs. Okay. So. And the, oh, let me, let me mention the bedroom was set up

like my mom's bedroom when we lived in our, uh, our old, old house, per se. Okay.

So. Did the dream start in the living room or in that bedroom? And the living room. Okay. And then how did you move, to the bedroom was it like down a hall or like what was the circumstance that caused you to move from the common

space visitors are to the more intimate or private space of the bedroom I don't call it sort of this scene changed it's like you were in the living room with these coworkers and then you were in the bedroom with them also

or alone oh the co-workers didn't appear until after we got upstairs into the sort of Pirates Caribbean sort of themed. Okay. Restaurant looking. Gotcha. Whatever.

And were you, um, did you have a sense of yourself while you're in the living room area? Uh, you were a child again or you were your grown adult self? Felt younger, but not, like, child any idea of the approximate age maybe like early 20s okay so that's

interesting too so younger than you are now by a little bit and but much older than you were when it was that when when you had your experience in this house when when you were there to be tutored right okay um oh that's interesting so why why that age? Why weren't you just yourself now? Or given the context, why weren't yourself, why weren't you had, why didn't you have a concept of yourself as, oh, I'm a child again. Of course, I'm in this house. I'm six or five or whatever. I don't know if that area of your early 20s means anything to you in terms of experiences, life lessons, changing philosophical or religious perspectives, just anything.

comes to mind. I was in better shape. That's what. That's what comes to mind. Sure. Yeah. Fair enough. So yeah,

yeah. There was a, maybe a, a concept of peak physicality. The idea of this was, this is, yeah,

this was when I was in better shape. I was better able to physically respond, say, or physically perform in some ways of job-wise or speed of running, different physical tasks.

Gotcha, gotcha, got you. And then, did anything happen in the living room other than just recognizing the location no just recognizing was that was the math tutor there to greet you or you were just in the space no go ahead yeah i mean we were just in this in there nobody else okay um any features of the physical environment stand out did you notice a math book sitting on the table some unfinished homework um the t-you the

he was on. I mean, she had a sort of small little sky light, whatever you want to call it, and it was normal daylight shining in. But when we went upstairs,

it was very late evening. And then a scene, as you say, a scene change to, you're in this bedroom with cats and it's evening. Right. Interesting. I don't know what it means. That's just, yeah, why? Why that, why that scene change?

Um, and she had cats. And so you would, you would play with them and they sometimes they were in her bedroom. Did you ever go there as when you were young? No, I never went anywhere else in her house. It was just, you know, they'd come in into the living room while we were doing math. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. But then you also said specifically you got to this bedroom and you knew it was the math teacher. bedroom in her house, but it was more composed like your mother's bedroom? Yes. Okay. And your mother was, you knew, you knew she was or would be unhappy that there were cats there? Uh, she would be, yeah.

Would be. So there was this, um, and ended specifically because she has an, an allergy. Yeah. But you knew it wasn't actually your mother's bedroom. I mean, you knew it was definitely still in the Tudor's house. It was in the tourist house, but it was my mother's bedroom. Okay. Very interesting.

So we've got, um, we've got two female role models. In a sense, we've got a math tutor that is in a motherly capacity, perhaps. I mean, she was definitely much old enough to be a mother in your mind in terms of, uh, from, you know, the perspective of a five or six year old. And then the bedroom you were actually in this, you get this blending of the math tutor, female role model and your actual mother female role model for good or ill. You know, role model doesn't mean,

uh, goodness, such like great man doesn't necessarily mean a good man. So the role model can be anything, however you feel about them. You could have hated your math teacher and said, well, she was a bitch,

but she was good at math. Well, fair enough. You know, there's respect there. Um, yeah. So there's a little bit of blending that.

It's like, it's like there's a comparison between the two that they actually, the concept of them exists in the same space. I mean, you're literally putting them in the same physical house. but it is your mother's bedroom. So maybe even nested within the role model of the tutor is then the more intimate role model of the mother

and in the most intimate space, the bedroom. Go ahead. What's up? No. Oh, I thought you started to say something. No, no, no. I think God interrupted. That's why.

Oh, okay. Go ahead. Fair enough, no problem. But what you've got in this space is, It's a blending that doesn't match. It doesn't fit because there's elements. So we would say maybe there are conflicting representations of these two role models that if you tried to assess whether they were exactly the same thing, you'd say, no, there's differences. There are things one might consider unacceptable.

I'm allergic to cats. They can't be here in this room versus, oh, I have cats and I love them and they walk anywhere they want. So there's a, it's kind of a judgment-free analysis in a way of, but it's like how compatible are these ideas, could I follow both of them and not be tugged in different directions? Does that making sense? Yeah. So there's that element. And then you're, so you're in this bedroom and you said the cats were specifically orange and black and white. Yeah.

And these were the real cats or just representative cats? cats, cats. You may not remember the exact cats she had. No, I remember the cat she had, but they were nothing like what was in the dream. Okay, so these were not her actual cats. These are representative cats of something else, perhaps, or the idea of catness or the cat problem, so to speak. All right. Like five pages in here, it's good stuff.

So cats are not the same. as real life just to kind of just to this is still section two um where are we out here no that's that's not it um okay we are on this and these cats uh what was your interaction with them they were at them they were walking around at a distance um they were they were on the bed though i was carrying around i was holding them they weren't really following you know walking around I'd carry them to here and there. So you moved around the room carrying one or both? Yeah.

And what did you do in the room in terms of why carry them anywhere? Were you just pacing back and forth? Well, I mean, when changing rooms I would, but I'd mean I'd just pick them up, you know. Okay. So you actually encountered them in this bed. where you appeared, you know, scene change. And then you took them with you to other rooms. Yeah.

What other rooms did you visit? I mean, it was only between the bedroom and that, you know, pirates of the, you know, room. The theme restaurant area. Yeah. So you carried them with you upstairs. Yeah. Oh, no, no. We were already upstairs.

Okay. Okay. So this is where I'm trying to wrap my head around. I didn't know if I thought the, in my initial misimpression, obviously, I thought the bedroom was on the first level and then you went to the second floor and that's where the open, open roof tree house looking scenario parrots thing was. So you're actually on the second floor, which is now your mother's bedroom or represented there, but the cats from cats that you knew belong to the math tutor that were not actually welcome in the room, but they were actually also different cats. then you just carried them out of that room into another room and that room was the open roof Pirates the Caribbean place yeah i mean exiting the bedroom you go across a wooden you know sky rope bridge that you know every connecting each room was that wooden bridge type of deal that had no the only room upstairs that had had a roof was actually the bedroom okay very interesting Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bridge to. And any idea of how you were carrying the cats, just like one in each arm over the shoulder type of thing, or they were sitting sitting on your shoulders, or they were in a backpack? I mean, how did they? In my arm, you know, like. Cuddling them in your arms, cradling.

Yeah. And they seem to have no fear of you. They weren't struggling to escape. They didn't freak out because you're going over Skybridge. They came with you. No problem. Yep. Okay. And then you get there and, oh, and you had a big guy, I kind of jumped ahead a little bit. I didn't read my own notes. You said they were just impossibly adorable, these cats. Yeah. Okay. So, and then that's a, that's a very strong, uh, positive emotion. That's a, that's a drawing close type of emotion.

We are, we have things that are repulse. We find them repulsive. They, they make us feel pushed away from and then adorable things we are compelled to love to adore. So there's something very appealing about these cats, what they represent, why they're in the dream is something that you're almost involuntarily drawn to. And you would, in the sense, and you did physically take with you into another experience that is even further removed. So you got this kind of progression from math teacher's house to mother's bedroom, to almost a bizarre fantasy setting of like this is not physically impossible.

There's no house is laid out like this where it's one living room, a different bedroom, belonging to a different person, and now a rope bridge to a theme restaurant, parts of the Caribbean. But it's no surprise the dreams are bizarre because all of these things represent very different shades of something or discrete instances of concepts. Where was I going with that? And not only that, it was like you're, you had a representation of the place you went to learn something when you were having trouble comprehending a specific type of things. So it isn't even about math necessarily, but oh, I remember when I needed help learning something.

Okay. Now you're in the mother's bedroom where there's a mismatch. And like I said, two different types of female role models and a mismatch between maybe their value set or their, their example of how to be a person in specific ways. or what the representation of an ideal feminine energy would be, that type of thing. And then you find something just impossibly, even in that mother setting, you find something impossibly attractive about a piece from a piece of someone else and you take it with you into a completely new, different setting that's, you know, it's weird enough to say in the same house,

our two bedrooms belong to different people that are like, that's not you would expect to find the math teacher's bedroom in that house and not your mothers but you did so that's actually someone else's bed room nested in that space and also connected to the space now someplace completely different that's far outside the uh connecting link of you know what would be a commonly understood as a normal shape of a house now you're in a tree house weird place and you brought the cats with you um i have rope bridge i don't know but it could have just been gone with the theme. To feel,

feel normal, natural? Yeah, it was part of the scene change. Gotcha. Okay, so you, you actually get to this restaurant,

theme restaurant looking space, actually a restaurant, or just it gave the vibe? Just gave the vibe of it. As if a theme restaurant. So it was actually just a, almost just a fantasy setting that didn't have any other purpose to it. Like,

it was not actually. actually a restaurant. It was not a stage play. It was a room built, a space built in that style for whatever reason, just to be that thing. Right. Okay. I completely stopped

taking notes over. Okay. And this is where the two cats suddenly had kittens. They had them in the bedroom, but it didn't, the scene didn't last very long in there before we went to the

you know, Pirates room. Okay. So I got this, I got this little out of order. So who are you carrying into across the rope bridge with you into the into the Pirates room? All the cats.

Okay. So the cats had kittens in that room. So, okay, okay. So I've got, yeah, I've got the sequence out of order.

I think that connects to, um, what are we talking about here? Whatever it is you found appealing about the other. say the other person, the comparison, the difference between these two, and you had to say, well, which do I prefer, which I think is right? Which, which feels better. You know, you got to make a choice. You got to go left or go right. You have your own criteria. So whatever those counts represent, that had a generative quality that, like if you adopt a certain thing,

there are consequences which follow from it. If you say, I embrace a specific path, you are then the consequences, well, I'm going to move down that path. And at some point, you will encounter whatever is down that path. So kind of the consequence of saying this, this uncontrollable attraction to the impossibly adorable cats, that is going to spawn metaphorical kittens in that sense. And what you're doing is you're taking not only the cats, the generator, the initial decision or iconic representation of what that, what that is, but all of its consequences with you. And, and you're holding them in a big bundle and they're all, and you don't have the sense that the, the burden is overwhelming. You're not afraid of dropping them.

They're all safe and you've got them and you're just taking them with you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that would be a different experience of like, this is an overwhelming burden. I love it so much, but I'm afraid I can't hang on to it. I'm crossing a dangerous bridge and I'm dropping cats and it's freaking me out and I'm panicked and, you know, that's a whole different experience. But whatever it is, you're, you're carrying forth this idea with you into a new space that is very fantastical. Not that there's anything wrong with that or that it's necessarily that the fantasy of it isn't maybe the important part.

But the idea that it's a, there's something represented by being in that space is where I'm going with that. The idea of, um, it means something to you. Like, how do you feel about the Pirates in Caribbean movies in general? You can just start there. That's the first thing came to your mind when you're looking at that space. Like, that's how you would describe it. Because, I mean, it reminded me of the right at Disneyland.

That's all I can think of. Okay. It wasn't necessarily related to the movies, but it's the closest, you know, comparison to give you an idea of what it looked like. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. No, no. And that's probably, well,

that's why I asked because we want to tease that out a little bit. Is this a generic pirity type place? And you're like, you know, like Pirates of the Caribbean, but it wasn't actually that. No, you said actually it was kind of like the ride more than anything. And that's, when the last time you experienced that ride? Like, uh, what is it? I mean, how old? 2014.

How long ago was that? Uh, that was about nine, nine years, 10 years almost? Yeah. So was this early 20s or late teens? Yeah. About right before we graduated high school. Right before. Okay.

So you've got different, and you are still your early, early 20s self, as far as you can tell. Yeah. Hello. My wife. My wife's here. She's actually off camera, but, yeah, they can't see you. My camera stops right here. You see that?

Yeah, yeah. Hey, are you okay to take a break? It was ironic when you told me in the very beginning. I was like, well, this is a short dream. Won't take that long. Like, you have so many details. To me, the first and the last are a lot to take in. To me, the second one is just like, okay, that happened.

Don't really think, I don't think much about it. Well, you suddenly reached that environment, and you got across the bridge and you realized the cats were all gone once you entered that space? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we were at the, you were more than we were at the end. We were more than halfway through that. So the last portion may take up to an hour, I suppose.

But there's, but I mean, there's also meaning to the idea that whatever this, whatever this thing the cats represented and the consequences of it, the generation of it, what it evolves into or transforms into or what it spawns. literally in terms of a litter of kittens, um, disappears when you enter this new space. So whatever this new space is, um, you can't take that with you or it doesn't belong there or entering that space necessarily

precludes whatever that is being with you or expressing it. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So we would spend maybe a little more time talking about that. And that's just to go over that final, uh, Um, final section, which I think it's got, yeah, it's, I mean, that's got a lot of detail too. It's got a lot of relevance.

I mean, it's got quite a bit of stuff. Then, the reason I think it might take a while is, is we're going to do, we're going to do that final section as well. Then we get to try and find the story arc that goes across all three that ties them all together. Why? What are the connecting links? Because we're connecting. Yeah. So I want to give us enough time.

Um, yeah, 2 p.m. Monday works for you. We'll, we'll do that. Okay. All right. Sounds good. I'm sorry. We ran out of time. It would have been nice

and could have started earlier, but, you know, it is what it is. Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you pierce the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his dreamscapes program

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Yeah, as well, as we were just saying, this is part two. We split it up. You know, sometimes you run out of time. It's not my preferred way to do it, but I think it's not, you know, it's better than not finishing. You know, so it's okay. I've had to do this before to come back and get part two the second day, you know, run of time with folks before. So it's not a huge, not a huge, huge deal. It is

interesting for me though, because yeah, as you were just saying, like, catch me up where the hell were we? So we had just left off on the end of the second dream and you had arrived at the Pirates of the Caribbean theme restaurant that had no roof or at least that's the

what comes to mind when you think of it. And fair enough. And all the cats had disappeared. They, as if they couldn't come with you. And I don't know if you have had time to let that percolate and think about what that place means to you and why the cats couldn't come with you has anything come to mind now that you've had some time to sleep on it etc the pirates the caribbean or type of you know setting that's appeared in other dreams before but oh i still like the significance of that would be well maybe tell me a little bit more about

what made it seem like pirates and you and you said specifically more like Pirates of the Caribbean the ride. Yeah. Because, you know, you know, fishing nets, barrels and wood paneling and all that stuff. That, it mostly reminded me of, you know, the ride at Disneyland because that's the closest thing that came to mind. Sure. Yeah. It's a very nautical theme.

I mean, you've got pirates in the sea and, uh, I mean, does that speak to you in any particular way? How did you enjoy those movies or the ride or, um, uh, every time I would go on the ride, it would break down. So I mean, that's the only significant part of it. Interesting.

That might actually be significant. That, that's a pretty strong memory of, of that experience with, with that setting is you get your hopes up and then they're kind of smashed a little bit and, oh, it's broken down.

And you got a, you don't get to have the experience. I mean, I, when the ride breaks down, it's funny because all the lights turn on and the animatronics stop and, you know, you're just laughing. Okay, so it's actually kind of a comical situation. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, that is very interesting. At least me. Fair enough. No, no. And that's what matters most is what's in your mind when you're experiencing it. And then when you reflect on it. So there's an interesting thing there.

It's like something all, something goes to shit. And it's hilarious, actually. But it's still broken down. I mean, it's still a non-functional. It's just you're kind of laughing at the circumstances. So, yeah, so you've come in this dream, you're coming to a place of, that represents that, a kind of involuntarily hilarious breakdown of whatever it is. And the cats don't come with you.

They can't. Whatever they represent is, is by going into that space, it makes them disappear. Like they can't exist in that space. They don't belong there. Something like something like that. Did you give any thoughts to the cats and, you know, that scenario? And any new thoughts come to mind?

Not about the cats, but I see what you're at with that point there. Yeah. Yeah. It just seems to be the way of it. Or just from the way you describe it in the story, it isn't like you're on, the bridge to somewhere rope bridge and the cats disappear

and the somewhere ends up being the Pirates of the Caribbean place because the cats disappeared. It seems more the other way around. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Not certain, but you know, usually the

causal chain or links in the chain, the order that they happen kind of matters because you think one thought and then another and if you thought them in a different order, they would mean something else. That's kind of where I'm going, going with that. Yeah. Well, we did get a little bit more interesting.

I'm going to sneeze. That's my sneezing face. There we go. That happened. We did get a little additional nuance onto that thing and kind of how it fits or at least connects. Okay. So we don't have to dwell on getting too many answers yet. We still got a whole third part of this or third dream segment to go.

through. Um, so in that one, you have arrived at work or you suddenly appear standing at work in the hallway. And I mean, I wanted to correct that because. Sure. Yeah, earlier today, I just, you know, I was thinking about it again and I thought, oh, fuck, I forgot to tell him. Hmm. There's a whole beginning to that dream. Okay, good deal. Yeah, let's let's shoot out some additional imagery. I mean, it started off in a street nearby our house, and I was with my mom.

And we were walking down the road under the bridge. And this road turns as like a, I don't know, a 60 degree curve. And once we go under the bridge,

I mean, on the other side of, you know, this. tunnel, everything looks as it normally would in real life. But once we come out from that side, from the other side, I mean, the world changes into like,

you remember those in the early 2000s, a lot of toys and stuff used to have you know, this clear plastic that was usually you know, pink and

orange and like a sort of light blue color and when the sun would shine through it you know obviously you know the light would change right obviously but I mean um you're talking about a thin plastic

like a cellophane tinted a certain particular yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay and we go into these buildings that are completely made out of that stuff and I'm thinking this looks, you know, Easter-themed, but it's not really.

I mean, just the lighting and stuff. And the light everywhere turns this orangeish color because the ceiling is, you know, that orange plastic. So all the light, you know, the light that comes in is orange tinged, right? And something, I can't remember.

or what, but there's something about mail, like, you know, physical letters that we have to find and at this point is when I walk through another door and I'm back at work and then everything goes as I told you before.

Okay. Interesting. Did you have a sense of how old you were at the time you said you were with your mother? Yeah. I mean, I mean, well, my usual age like your current age

about I mean I said I wouldn't say my current age it was more like the very first part somewhere I'd say I physically felt 17

but I was probably like 24 that's interesting you're the feeling of being 17 but knew you were physically 24 and that's not your current age either. Right. Interesting.

Those are your specific, well, very specific ages. Turning points in your life around those times. I mean, things you discovered, experiences you had at 17 and then at 24 that might be, might cue up why you needed to conceive of being at that intersection, but also all at the same time in the persona that's experiencing the orange glow and the cellophane through the buildings and kind of an Easter pastel, I guess, color scheme, the pastel orange, maybe. Yeah, that's a good word for it, pastel colors.

Yeah, you said Easter. That's what I think of that. Probably not specifically related to Eastern necessarily, but pastel. Then again, if it suggests Easter to you, it might very well be. I mean, that's how I, how I describe it, Easter colors. But I mean, pastel is a better word. Sure, sure. Yeah, Easter colors.

What about those specific ages in your life? I mean, when I was 17, I had a lot of shit going on, but, um, 24, not really. Oh, wait, actually, 24. Yeah, nothing significant about that. Okay. Well, you said you had a lot of stuff going on. So, um, very busy social life or very, uh, tumultuous, unstable living situation, 17 and things like that, you know, um, unstable school experience, I'd say. Okay.

We get into trouble or something like that kind of stuff or? Oh, I wasn't getting into trouble. I wasn't, I wasn't a shithead, but. Um, I was failing my classes because I just didn't do homework. the thing. Okay. Homework was like 80% of your grade. Well, it's like, I've been at school for eight hours. I'm not going to do homework. There is a, I've never been, I've never liked that myself either. It's like, if this is our 40 hour a week job, what are we working 60 hour weeks now? You know, we're not getting paid for any of it. Oh, well, you do it for you? You do it for

your education. Fair enough. It's not like there's no benefit to it. But, yeah, I never liked the idea of homework either. Like, what am I supposed to, I don't know, go out and play? I didn't care for homework much either. Um, so 24 was actually a very distinctly not unstable year in your life, maybe. Yeah. Okay. Just, just comparing the two. Like, if a lot of things happen at 17 and kind of nothing happened at 24, why 24? Maybe it was a uniquely boring or uneventful year? I'd say so, yeah. interesting so you've got this um you've got this need to visual side go ahead yeah two two opposite sides of the spectrum not supposed to be vaping i never do on stream what am i doing it's got it in my hand so i'm hitting it there we go yeah and and it's and you are

you are of course today the same person who was both that 17 year old and that 24 year old and you are neither one of them anymore and you are both of them still all at the same time There's kind of a thing going on there. Right. So, but, but in this moment, for some reason, you decided I need to see myself as if I feel 17, the feeling of failure due to lack of effort maybe and a really boring period in your life or uneventful where, where really there's, you know, things are relatively stable, you know, instability.

So yours, you're like, you are the unstable. factor you feel unstable even though things around you are relatively stable and you with your mother which is how'd you feel about that you were happy about it indifferent to it um you know that you're walking with her i didn't really have any thought about it was like okay this is happening sure okay so no no specific thoughts or feelings about it but so you're walking with her um you're heading towards a bridge but you're going to pass under the bridge, you're not going over the bridge. So the bridge is going over you in a sense,

but you're doing the traveling. There's something there in terms of, um, you didn't show yourself going over the bridge. You went through a tunnel, specifically a tunnel under a bridge. Yeah. To come out the other side.

And on one side was real life. And on the other side is, I mean, when you're viewing from point A to point B, point B looks like as it normally would, IRL. Mm-hmm. Right. But once you get to physically point B, it changed. That's what I mean.

Gotcha. Yeah. There's definitely a transitional space, a passing through, coming out the other side and things looking different. That's a very... Like bridge to terribithia, right? Sure. Sure. There's that element to it. Um, what, what I'm talking about is, but that's, that's one way. I mean, there was, um, it might be relevant that that popped into your head too, because there was the experience of knowing that girl and there was after the experience of knowing her and never going to know her again, uh, that, his world was different afterwards than it was before and, and different than it was during.

So there's, there's crossing thresholds in a way where you, It's a one way, one way trip. In some ways, we only move forward in time. We cannot actually go back. And experiences change us. We pass through an experience like a tunnel, like a transitional point and come out the other side, a different person or with a different view of the world. And that's what I think I was going for with the, the idea of the orange light as if through

cellophane is you're seemed to be conceptualizing this idea of, now the world has taken on a different hue. It looks, it looks as if the light has changed. There's, there's these visual, visual fuels that now you see things differently, if that makes sense. Yes. The orange, I, to me, was like, you know, that gave the sense of your, you know, calmness, warm, contentness. Okay. Gotcha.

Yeah, it's good, good, good emotion. So whatever experience you're contemplating. um it's not an unpleasant one coming out the other side of it like or coming out coming through the experience and getting to the other side of it existing on that other side is better or at least good in some way you know it wasn't a scary light it wasn't uh darkness with shadows chasing you i mean you specifically had a pleasant warm feeling from it like oh this is this is okay this is actually kind of nice um yeah and then that led you to some buildings? Were they of a particular kind? I mean, was it a, you know,

fire station, shopping mall, apartment complex? Where were you going to look for these letters? I can't exactly tell you because, I mean, that, it was all that plasticy stuff, so it had no particular shape to it. It was just, okay. I forgot, as a door, it has a roof. I forgot that. I forgot that the buildings were actually made of it completely. So they were semi-transparent as well. You actually have the ability to actually kind of see inside, see through walls in a way. So that transparency and the fact that everything was made of it is like maybe the word in sight comes to my mind, insight. And we think of it as, oh, I've gained better understanding of myself. And that is, it is literally the ability to look within sight, the ability to have sight within ourselves,

insight. But go ahead. And what is ahead to? Yes. And but then it's, So if you have other experiences that allow you to, you can get insight on yourself. That's the typical thing. You can also have insight on external situation. Once we see the world in a new way, we have a new understanding. It gives us a new,

a better ability to, to understand what's going on around us. So this looks very much like some kind of epiphany experience where you're like, you know, you came to a realization on something and it was meaningful and in it, and you're representing it in this way. And you're looking for letters, physical mail.

And what was the purpose of finding them? You needed to find them so that they could be delivered? Or? My mom was looking for them. That's the weird part. You, it wasn't your idea. You didn't have that feeling. You're following her because she needs to find them.

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So she's looking for, I mean, what are letters written communication? Any other? Yeah. Ideas come to your mind when you think of letters? Not really.

Okay. Seems like maybe it's an interesting thing going on. The thought that came to my mind was you've got this new insight, but maybe she doesn't. And she's looking for specifically old ways of finding information or achieving communication. You know, she wasn't looking for her lost cell phone or, you know, she wasn't looking for the airplane to go skywriting. It's specifically these. And she's an older generation, you know, I'd imagine a little bit. So probably existed before the Internet.

So there's maybe a stronger connection with, you know, this is something mom would do is send and receive letters, physical written letters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I say that, when I say the idea that you've got, you've developed some insight that she hasn't developed yet or can't develop. Is anything come to mind? Wait, say that again. Well, the idea that if we take my suggestion that you're depicting yourself,

having come through an experience and gained insight from it, and the ability to even see through walls represented that way, and this warmth, this good feeling that comes with it, and then you're following your mom, we're working with her to help her achieve her goal, which is to find these letters, which is a different type of receiving. communication or understanding, the written word versus, if I kind of put it that way, is there

something, anything comes to mind of things you, it seems like you understand that your mom doesn't or didn't at the time when you were younger? Not to me, at least. I mean, every time she asked me to find something, it's because she can't do it herself, so she needs, you know, me to do it for her. And that's still kind of a common experience these days? yeah okay so she needs your help yeah you've got the the insight if we're if we're running with that and what she's looking for is is it's a bit antiquated it's it's a lesser form it's like

you're almost looking at it like uh well and that would make sense too if there's a bit of a um like if she needs your help finding something it's because she can't do it herself and you're depicting that in the dream and that that would match with the insight thing of like there's she might be looking for understanding that she can't find and you're trying to help her. I just came to mind. Yeah. I think there's something there. You can,

you can say something about it or we can move on and just let it let it percolate. I agree with you so far. Okay. Yeah. I mean, not just is it possible to look at it this way, but does it feel right? You know, that kind of thing. So if you say you agree in terms of like, yeah, it seems to make sense and it feels like we're on to something.

Yeah. Okay, fair enough. And then you never did find the letters, like before they could be found, it transitioned to the work setting. You went through a door. Right. Okay. You get another piece of paper here. We're going on to page six.

I feel like Paul Harvey. And now, page six. You get six, right? One, two, three, four, five. Oh, actually. That all messed up. There we go. Okay.

So now we're into the work setting thing. And then you walk through a doorway and you're at work in the hallway and your mom's not there anymore. Right. She's completely disappeared from the dream. Yeah. So something about encapsulating that early portion you thought through whatever it is you were trying to understand.

And where that led you to is thoughts of. work of being at work specifically of being in this hallway because um um this is you said it's kind of a big h safe shaped a building and on the left would be offices and then to the right is a room that is typically the break room right um so you're in the in hallways passageways tunnels these are all kind of transitional spaces in a lot of ways you're in the hallway isn't usually a destination. It isn't usually somewhere we're trying to get to or where anything is done. It's the place you use to go from one room to another. Um, so the hallway, the hallway has the time clock. Okay. Good. Good. Yeah. No, that's also very typical, but that's a good. That's a good detail too. Um,

it is the place where you begin your day. It's the place where you officially commit to doing work by that act of punching in in a way. Yeah. And that's where I was standing in front of, I was messing with the time clock. Okay, yeah, yeah, that was on the next line down standing at the time clock. And you had just punched in or just punched out or, say, messing with it? I was touching something, but I wasn't punched in or punched out or anything. I don't know what, there wasn't any details of that in the dream at all. You said you were touching something.

Is it you're messing with the machine itself? You're trying to do something to it. Yeah, I mean, there's little, you know, key buttons on it, I guess. And if you, you punch him and if you don't scan your, your fingerprint, it doesn't do anything. So were you pushing buttons and nothing was happening? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. So you're in a, you're in a transitional space, kind of a space in between, but it's also the space where, you what am I trying to say where you commit to the beginning of work in that sense like the act of punching in so but you're not able to

for whatever reason the buttons aren't responding you're you're in a oh the buttons the buttons do respond I'm just not physically you know making them do anything because I haven't scanned my finger so you're saying the buttons respond as in they go beep boop poop poop

but it's not changing the display. It's not performing its typical function. Can you scroll through menus and do different things when you're clocked out? Or don't scan your thumbprint, rather? No. Okay. So it's showing that it's registering your attempts, but it's not really,

it's not accomplishing anything. That's, okay, okay, good. That's kind of where I was going with it. Good, good to clarify. Um, which, which, so you're in a, in a transitional space and you're uncertain of your purpose. It's like you're at a crossroads and you don't know which way to go. Does that make sense? Does that feel right?

Right. And you're actually, you're at a place where you should have a purpose. You should be there for a reason, but it's not, but you're not. Not at that time. Or the reason you would normally be there is not the reason you're there now. It's, it's something else. So it's not, it would be one thing if you saw yourself at the machine and you clocked in and you were heading to work or to the break room because that's where you would normally go before work. You spend a few minutes there after you clock in. Say hi to people. But instead, you're not even clocked in. You're not even there. You're not even able to do the thing you're there to typically there to do. Like you're there without that purpose. So this is where I'm going with it in my head is like, okay, imagine you're considering this is about. work, but it's not about the work. It's not about working. It's not the work side of work,

if that makes sense, which is interesting because then you go to the break room, which the break room isn't for work either, technically. It's a break from work. It's a room where you would rest, but also a room where you might socialize with, with coworkers. Yeah. But the break room is now represented as a butcher shop. It's tiled to, you know, so that's easier to clean all the blood. And there's a butcher in there. The thing that comes to my mind is that you may consider, you've, you've, it's possible. It's possible.

You've got some association with the idea of social and losing with your coworkers being related to the idea of a butcher shop. Like, um, go ahead. Did I, did I detail where it? it had the transition of within the butcher's story type of after the after the bull i can tell you what i wrote down you want me to go through it all real quick just and then you can tell me if i've got it right yeah up up to the bull yeah yeah so you've got the you know um on the right where the break room should be but it's but this is a different room uh um it's tiled it's more of like a butcher shop there's a man in black gloves and

black apron. It's a dead cow on meat hooks. There's kind of a steel non-porous table there. And then the orange tinted light comes back where it also filters over this room. Right, right, right. Gotcha. And then he carves up the cow and that the next is he pulls forward a dead body and it's a human. He's going to carve up a human next. So before the dead body, I forgot. Okay. Or I mean, actually, once he pulls up the dead body, up the dead body before I ask any other question the first thing I ask him was

how did that person die and as he explains it I'm thrown into like this storybook scenario through his visions right

you know like in a children's TV show where it has you know the fade out or you know to this different little mini story, right? Like in Wishbone or whatever. Okay. And it shows the dead

cow in the back of a beige Toyota pickup. I mean, you know, you know those old Toyota pickups that, you know, you like seeing Africa, right? Yeah, gotcha. And it was

the dead cow was in the back of the truck. The man was standing there with it. The bed of the truck had a lot of blood in it. The cow had black, I mean not black, uh, purple, purpleish, reddish,

pink flower petals on its back. Only a few. And you're driving through the bush and, um, they up the back, throw the cow out as sort of like this offering to this to this unknown. I don't know what it is.

There's nothing there, but there's a feeling of like we're offering this, you know, to that thing, whatever it is. Okay. And that's when things transition back into the body. And you never really got an answer to how did the man die? They just showed you that scene instead. Yeah. I was there, but he didn't die in the vision. right interesting yeah okay it's like somehow i don't know what it seems like maybe the cow

you know the bull and the body are related somehow but i don't know yeah yeah definitely i mean man is related to the bull and they're both getting the same treatment from the butcher is the idea right yeah and one is the sacrifice and maybe uh the man is also meant to be a a sacrifice in his own way? Maybe. Yeah. Interesting. You've got, there's a, you know, an ancient tradition of sacrificing animals, you know, 2,000 years ago and whatnot.

So that concept could be in mind. And we still, in a sense, sacrifice them to our need to live, our hunger, you know, etc. There's an interesting thing, yeah, that you've made the break room, the butcher shop. And so there's some kind of butchery going on there. And maybe and some kind of sacrifice. maybe, some kind of ritual sacrifice, some kind of, uh, um, something that it's easier to understand as the, well, the cow thing. Okay, I get that. And then, but, but actually the,

the real point of it is to, is that it's more of a human sacrifice. Um, uh, you know, something comes to mind with, uh, with, with me that, you know, I've been in some workplaces where I wasn't as well liked as I could have been, you know, very young and whatnot. And, um, you know, sometimes if there's a there's a culture of teasing sometimes the guy that uh you know you let's see if some of the pop look it's almost like back in high school popular kids they tease the teased the dork or whatever and then it's like okay i get it you know and you just kind of got to take it because whatever i mean do you feel um well respected at work or do you feel like maybe you're the butt of some people's jokes and some assholes have it in for you and it's just you're not

really enjoying it shit honestly My boss thinks I'm the school shooter. That's the only barn in my hand. Okay. Did we mention that last time? Did you, because that sounds familiar. Was that part of another discussion we were having? Maybe.

I can't remember that. Okay. So it may not relate directly to coworkers. It could be more of a boss thing of like, you know, this problem follows you everywhere and even into the break room and you're not free from it, even when you're not doing it too hard. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

This is, this happened before at a different job. It's like, what the fuck again? Okay, so you've had the same feeling. And it's, yeah, that may relate to the idea of what we were going with with the insight thing of like you, giving yourself a representation of, come on, you know what this is. You've seen this before. And so you're giving yourself kind of a, and related to the whole like school failure. I'm not doing your homework. Okay, this is what it felt like then.

And even if you, even if this isn't school and you weren't assigned homework and there's nothing you could do off the clock necessarily. It's all about job performance. And maybe it isn't even about that because maybe you're doing fine. mind someone just doesn't like your personality. And that's that's really hard to deal with because it's like, you know, I can't change who I am. I do the best I can. Um, but yeah, yeah, that that just popped into your head there. This, this conflict with the boss. So, you know, do we want to try to look at the full range of all three dreams with from from that kind of angle of analysis of like, okay, is this, they're all three dreams kind of about, you know, feeling your boss does, just, uh, from, from that kind of. Um, you know, is this. And it's just, uh, uh, and like you and that that's a very unstable unsettling feeling and um i don't what do you think i don't think doesn't that he doesn't doesn't like me but it i can sort of sense he has an uneasy feeling around me okay i mean he he likes it me in the sense that hey i learn quickly i do my work as i should but still uneasy gotcha

So you said, you know, you kind of laughed and it's a bit humorous way to put it, but he thinks you're a school shooter in terms of like, you get the feeling that he thinks you're very weird or strange or potentially. I think they, they think, personally, I think they say that is because I'm just quiet and I don't talk to anybody, really. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that might relate to the whole idea of the, you know, the butcher shop being, you know, in the break room is that there's. Oh, I see what you're getting. Yeah. Yeah, well, the idea that the focus is on the awkwardness or discomfort or difficulty with social relationships.

And you're conceiving that as a place where, you know, what do they say? It's like, you know, getting someone to talk is like pulling teeth. And that's kind of what you would do at what they used to call the barbers. And the barber was kind of also the butcher in a way that it would do surgeries. And barber surgeon was a thing way back in the day. It was a very close relation to that kind of stuff. But it can almost feel like, you know, people trying to get you to open up when you've got social anxiety or awkwardness or you're just not much of a talker. It can feel like, what are they trying to?

It feels like they're trying to carve chunks off of me, like expose me in a way that's physically uncomfortable. So kinds of that stuff that could be going on in there. But it's, you know, this is all me speculating. It's got to make sense to you. You said I see when I mentioned break room social butcher shop. What was the connection you see there? How would you phrase it? No, I mean, you said it pretty well enough.

Okay. Fair enough. I don't want to put words in your mouth or talk over you. But just I try to tell you what I'm thinking. And then if it makes sense to you, go, okay, I see that. Yeah, that works. You know, or it doesn't. So that, well, that came to mind for your, for this particular segment of that dream.

And it may have been building up to that or it may have been. the train of thought across all three that kind of led you there eventually. That may not be the purpose of each segment, um, but they are all work related. And they are, uh, related. So the first one, you've got, um, as we went over, you've got fellow employees that are of, uh, kind of an elevated status in some ways at work. And they've got benefits to it and they're suffering a loss, but you didn't. Um, you know, their car stolen, mine left alone.

It's because they have nicer things. Of course, people want to steal nicer things. Of course, they leave mine alone. So there's definitely, um, um, um, a comparison type of thing going on there, like looking at who, who and what you are compared to who and what they are. Um, then you've got the, uh, second portion of that where you're, you're, engaged in the work of, of, of, of doing your job, but, and you're also there with some of the same people.

And now you've got this female, a young Indian woman there. And there's a, there's a, there's a, an emergency that suits your competence. And you act on it, but then the leg itself wants to come with you or come towards you. It detaches from. So it's actually, it's like it's not about her or part of her as much as it's, it's its own contained thing.

In some ways, it's like the, what is it? What am I trying to say? There's an idea of like, if you show your competence at work in a certain way, you will, that's a good way to get extra work. Like, if you're, if you show that you're uniquely capable of, of doing things, um, the boss will say, hey, great, look, let's give you extra work compared to everybody else. So this is sticking your neck up in some ways that doesn't.

doesn't really always benefit you, if that makes sense. Right. I don't know if that's making sense in terms of that portion of the dream, or what do you think? Yeah. Or any additional thoughts? I can't. I'm not eloquent enough to add anything to it. Fair enough.

Now, you can just be not eloquent. Well, okay. So if we look at that, that thing and kind of encapsulation. So we've got you looking at why, why did their cars get stolen? Their cars get stolen because they were nice. Why did they have nice cars? Because they get paid more. Why'd they get paid more? Because what they do is uniquely valuable. And then in the next section, you show yourself a representation of you being uniquely valuable. And then the problem follows you. So there may be really something there of you like going. I could shine more at work. I could demonstrate my skill and ability. But do I really want to? Do I want to do? Do I want to do? Do. Do better than I am now. Do I want to take on that extra worker responsibility? Does that make sense? Right. It could be something there. Yeah, you're just kind of running in a lot of ways. Our dreams are just thought experiments of like, what is what is this thing? What am I, what am I seeing here? What, uh, what is my understanding of the situation? How do I feel about that, that kind of thing?

Um, okay. Well, if we go with that, if we go with that idea as kind of, uh, making sense. I mean, it works with the imagery and the experience. Um, yeah. Then you actually start thinking about your, in some ways, educational history, when you've had problems in the past where you weren't as competent. You needed a math tutor. And this is where I get a little, I mean, I'm just really uncertain what to do with, you know, the cats and the fact that you're in her house, but then it's your mom's room. And I mean, there's definitely been, and as in other portions, it's representations of strong, uh, female. role model type figures, the math tutor, your mother. And those are, you know, not surprising. These are these are essential figures in our lives sometimes that come to us at different points

and really embody or become an iconic representation of the type in a way, you know, set our expectations for others of a similar kind. It is interesting that you have this very start. difference between the two. The one, say, female role model, loved cats and your mother has allergies to cats. So it doesn't hate them necessarily, but doesn't want them around and, of course, can't have them around. So there's, in a way, it's like if you had to pick one, you couldn't, you couldn't emulate them both. It's certainly not across one dimension. You couldn't emulate both at the same time or enact their exact.

example, in regards to the specific issue of cats, you would have to follow one or the other. You would have to say, I either, you know, and there's a dichotomy there. I have cats or I don't have cats. But I think it's more of the idea of when you have two role models that you both respect, say, and believe are competent in their own ways. And they do things differently. You're like, okay, well, which one's right? So if we follow that through a little bit, you, this is interesting too. So if we tell this is a little bit of an arc across this, you are considering from the beginning,

do I want to display more competence at work? Am I, do I feel confident in that? Is that even something I want? Because it means extra responsibility. The leg I fix is going to follow me in that sense. Now you're in a self-questioning kind of dream of like, well, I've had problems with developing competence before. and I had these two different, say, and that can also depend on which role model I choose to follow. And you choose, let's say in this case, you imagine you're choosing the math teacher and you gathering the cats, the, the multiplication in a way, like related to math there, the proliferation of her example.

Okay, let's say I chose one to emulate and take that with me. and then you get to this place where, uh-oh, if I choose the wrong role model, I come to the place of the broken ride. I come to the place of the Pirates of the Caribbean that doesn't work. And it's, yeah, it's funny, but it's also, it's non-functional. And the cats are gone anyway. Like, so you've, that kind of representation of say, if I, if I have, uh, which role model do I emulate?

If I choose the wrong one and I follow their example, it might fail. That's kind of where I was going with all that. I don't know if you were feeling anything as I'm describing it or that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense to me. Okay. For the most. Yeah.

Kind of quite exploring the idea of, you know, what is my capacity to learn? And even if I felt like I could, which exemplar, which teacher do I follow to develop that skill and put into practice. So there's like a, at one point, you're like, okay, let's assume I have the confidence to do this. And you're like, okay, even if I do have the confidence to do this. do it. And I do have potential. What if I do it poorly? It's almost like a second guessing, a screwing up type of thing. And then it's very interesting. So you've, um, you chose one, say, you had two, two choices. Okay, well, this, uh, this, uh, math teacher mother. And when the following the math teacher example, you know, by a roll of the dice or whatever failed.

The third dream then you're, now you're with your mother heading to a, a transitional point. And it seems like following her or walking. with her in that way, brought you through a tunnel, and came to the other side of a transitional thing. And now you have this insight and you're able to see things better, actually better than she does, because now you can see through buildings. And you didn't say whether she could or not, but certainly what she was looking for was an archaic mode of communication.

It's like, well, she's actually kind of behind the times. I think even maybe you're considering, you know, what has worked for me in the past when I was younger when I was 17, even when I was 24, uh, walking with her was beneficial that she was able to be my guide sufficiently and get me through those times in my life. But now I have this additional insight and maybe she doesn't. Maybe she's a little bit stuck in the past. Maybe actually she's not going to be a sufficient role model or, or a reliable source of wisdom moving forward. it's possible or right yeah okay fair enough fair enough um what else we're going for here um

these are all my old old notes um and then that brings us up to so once once you kind of have that realization a bit of an epiphany that she's looking for letters letters are old school man that's not we're kind of in a post letter age maybe now you're like, okay, well, now I'm back at work. So now I've got to really deal with this situation.

Maybe on my own. Maybe I don't have a role model that can help me decide what to do, what I decide what I want, decide what I should want or what path I should pursue. And that brings you to this concept of the butcher being in the break room. Just kind of following all that story arc up to that point. Are you seeing that room or that person or that experience with any new, understanding or you can think about it for a moment.

Not. I still don't have anything about the butcher. Okay. But it is a figure you can interact with. You didn't feel scared of him? No. Okay. Just a representation of a person doing a job.

How do you feel about the idea of, you know, industrial butchers in that sense? or even, even, you know, you know, small commercial butchers, the idea of doing that job. Is that the job you could do? I don't think I could, you know. Yeah, it sounds fine to me. I wouldn't be that bothered by it. That's the big difference, does it bother you? It bothers me a little bit, enough that I'm like, you know, if they brought it to me

ready to process, it might not be so bad, but the further away from looking like a complete animal that it is certainly uh the better um starting from it's alive to i got to kill it and then cut it up i don't know if i could be like just killing animals repeatedly all day every day that would just i don't think i could i would hate it every day um anyway so but it may not be even be about the representation of the job type i think it's something else um but you're able to communicate with that person you observe them first you see that they're doing the typical thing that they do. They've got the, you know, people think butchers,

they think maybe deer, uh, because, you know, hunters bring deer in, but the, pigs or cows, chickens maybe, but mostly pigs or cows is what we think of when we think of a butcher. So it's a iconic or classic media representations, probably stuck with all of us. Um, and you're able to kind of ask a question and your question wasn't like, you know, hey, do you like your job? It was, how did that guy die? because he's now, we don't, we don't typically associate a butcher shop with carving up humans.

That's like above and beyond. That's like something else. That's maybe, even if you could imagine yourself being a butcher, if being a butcher entailed carving up humans, you would probably say, I would not do that job. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. I could have been wrong. I don't, don't hesitate to tell me if I am. But so there is, it feels like there's something like that going on where,

you're like, okay, I didn't see that coming. I didn't know that would be part of the job. So you're looking at a job that's actually probably very different from what you do. And then, but a job you could do. Like it's, I mean, cut me off any time. But what I'm conceptualizing there is the idea that sometimes changing your responsibilities at work, it changes your job. You know, like going from the factory floor to the to the working in the office. You're still working at the same place.

you're not doing the same job anymore. Now you're in accounting. Now you're pushing paper instead of working with your hands. So what do you think of that idea that you're looking at being a butcher is is a different job than you do currently? You are not a butcher. So you've got this. It's almost like a change of career type of thing represented there. Yeah, more physical.

You'd say more physical being a butcher or your current job? Yeah, the butcher. Interesting. More physical than the job you do. Yeah. Okay. As in greater expenditure of energy and muscle, like literally physical, more of a physical job. Yeah.

Okay. So what you do isn't like you're not part of a road crew or something, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, that's very physical shovels and, you know, ditch-ditch-dick and et cetera. Gotcha. You know, I'm not trying to have you tell me what you do. So, but just a comparison. Do you, you know, but since you brought that up, more physical, do you think you'd be, or have you considered lately whether you'd be happier with a more physical job?

Is that something that's been on your mind? Yeah, I mean, I quit my old job that was really physical. And I got this. Which is nice physical. Yeah. Okay. Because I liked, you know, my old job, despite it being really nice. And I was in the best shape of my life.

And, you know, I was packed on muscle just, you know, hucking, you know, boxes repeatedly 12 hours. And it's like, damn, son, you know, when I look in the mirror, holy hell. And then. Yeah, yeah. But then it's like, once I get here, it's like, I'm sitting around a lot. And I feel like a lazy bum. Okay. You feel, so you definitely feel like you are less physical at this job and you feel like maybe it has been having some effects on your physical fitness in general, you know, put on a couple of pounds and loss some endurance. Oh, absolutely.

Okay. Okay. Well, that may cue in on the, you know, the hairy man on the table. Who's about, you said he was around 200 pounds? I think is what, yeah. Yeah, I see. Yeah, I see what you mean. And that's very much larger than you are right now, or at least by a bit. Oh, absolutely. Okay. That's like double my weight.

Yeah, yeah. So how did he die? So you're looking at the butcher. You may be looking at your current job as a bit of a butcher on your body. Maybe we've been thinking about it wrong. I see. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not, I mean, when you think of physical bodies and muscles and that thing, I mean, a butcher is a very easily connected. idea of like that's the specialist in retrieving muscles carving them from bone and when we think of going to the gym or whatnot we think of getting shredded carving carving the definition of a six-pack we think of that in terms of carving like chiseling a statue but it can also be you know very related to the butcher idea um so you may think yeah you may think in that regard or you may be

considering now that this uh change of career has led you to a place where you're kind of butchering own body in a sense of like not being as physical as you wish you or now that you realize you you prefer to be or wish you or think you should be um and you you ask how did he die and you get and the butcher starts to tell a story but you don't really hear words you get a a vignette you get a scene of storytelling you fade out and go into that and what you're seeing is that that man is with the cow that is being taken to be delivered as a sacrifice. And that's the word keeps coming to me. There's lots of different ways to conceive of a sacrifice, you know,

but it's broadly speaking. It's what you give up to get something else. So you did make a sacrifice. It sounds like you're, it sounds like that's what you're conceiving in your mind. You made a sacrifice of changing jobs. You've got a better job, so to speak, maybe pays more money or,

a better environment for whatever reason, whatever you prefer over there, but you had to give up something to get it. You had to give up the physicality. Right. I see. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of themes in here of, um, I mean, it's all connected to your work. It's all in your workplace and your feelings about work in general and your decision making process about what's a good job, but what do I want out of a job?

What am I willing to do with a job? Um, you know, I've always been someone. myself personally not interested in responsibility. I want, uh, you know, I just want to be consulted. Well, I consider myself, you know, fairly smart in some ways. And what I would like is the people in charge to come and ask me my opinion sometimes. I make a better advisor than a leader in that sense. So I don't want to be in a position of authority. I don't want to to, I don't want to enjoy it.

I don't want to do it. I don't want to be in charge of anyone. I don't want to tell anyone what to do. None of it. But I like the people in charge says, you, because I got, I got to, I got to, I don't want to do it. I don't want to. I ideas. I can hopefully provide useful solutions. I think I'm good at that. But, uh, you know, anyway, long story short, that's my, that's my perspective on that kind of thing of like taking on additional responsibility. Yeah, you get, you get a bit, bit of a pay raise, but with, with extra headaches too. And now you got to manage people. And then you got to follow up on did they do what you asked them to do. I don't want any of that. I don't want any of that. I don't know. I'm going to stop there and let you kind of respond to it to, to what we've been processing here.

No, I'd agree with what you're. how you're um what's the word putting it okay fair enough at least it is a perspective it's something to consider um and you know it might have been good that we that we took a break and i um i did not very intentionally i did not put additional thought into this because i i tried as much as possible to keep it out of my mind so i didn't start building assumptions and hanging on to them in my own mind. I wanted to come back to this almost blank again. Um, and I think, I think I did that, uh, fairly well to, because now, I don't know that I could have had this same descriptive offering to like three days ago, you know, um, so yeah,

I think we've got a very much more interesting understanding of it. And, and again, it all, it all comes down to, does this make sense to you personally? Is this, like okay um or is it like yeah nah i mean it's a story it this is one of those things where it's like i get it but that's not me you know yeah the way you said that that makes sense but it's not that doesn't feel right uh it's not anything in my mind but it seems like you've confirmed uh at least most of it huh yeah okay i guess the next question would be what to do about it um and you don't have to have an answer right now but at least these are the things you're considering did you happen to have any new dreams

over the weekend. We dream almost every day, if I recall correctly, right? Probably over the weekend, no. I mean, not. Saturday I worked. Sunday, I woke up with headaches, so there's probably nothing. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. Yeah. We'll be, as usual, you know, keep me posted in terms of if you get any new epiphanies, if you're like, you know, you let this percolate. a bit and then something settled you wake up tomorrow and something settled into place and you're like yeah here's you know one thing i'm trying not to do is ask you too many questions that might be revealing identifying information i guess i could try to be vague in terms of like are there maybe opportunities for you to step up and take more

responsibility at work or are you just considering whether that's something you want to do or whether you want to do or whether you would be capable of i mean there was an op place uh my boss said there was an opportunity to be trained as one of the upstairs people, but that never happened. Is it something you had to express interest in in order for it to happen? Or did it kind of get taken away from you? Like, well, it was no longer available. Yeah, you had to express interest in it, but then nothing ever came from it. So you did express interest in it or you didn't?

Yeah. Yeah, I did. You did? Okay. And then that didn't pan out. They picked someone else? No, it just never happened entirely. Oh, they just never picked anyone.

The whole opportunity went away for anyone. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then this dream happened maybe after that or definitely after that? Or this series of dreams? Wait, say again. I got distracted.

I'm wondering about the sequence of events in terms of when this three. three part dream series happened and when that opportunity was offered oh this was that opportunity was offered um uh like two months ago okay so it was quite a ways back gotcha yeah well even even some things that are slightly remote in time can come back to us because we just remember oh yeah i remember that was a thing and uh nothing ever happened with that thing i wonder how i would have felt about that Did I even want that thing? Is it better it went away? Then I had enough to make a decision.

Yeah. What if it came back? What would I do? Would I volunteer again? Huh. It's weird the way memory works. Like, yeah, two months go by and suddenly we remember something that happened two months ago.

And that sparks off a whole new train of thought of like, I wonder whatever happened to that or that person or that scenario. I still don't understand. Or I haven't decided how I feel about it, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. well I mean we picked up part two today because we ran out of time but um we don't have to go another two

two and half hours uh we can we can we can we can we can we can wrap it up unless you feel like you have additional questions about specific things like images you remember and you're like what about this part i just i still don't get that you do or you don't it's okay there were there was the the sudden abrupt end about the uh asking about the penis and then it's like what the fuck oh yeah I don't even know if I wrote that down I completely forgot what was the um was the context on that in terms of uh oh yeah and he started carving him up and he asked how big big is his penis and then okay so that may or um may I may not be all that relevant I mean it's certainly relevant

But what am I trying to say? It may not be all that staggeringly grand or there's a, there's a common cultural trope of men in competition with each other, getting into a dick measuring contest, right? And it's more about, they're not even, they're, the analogy is, is there not because it's literal. Like, let's whip it out and prove who's this bigger. But it's an analogy to who's got more status.

And it's more about that. It's about who's superior or better than the other one. So what you ask is, you know, how was this person better than me in that sense? Was this person of higher or lower status than I was? So you're just asking just straightforward metaphorically, how big was his status? And you get the metaphorical answer back was only six, six inches, which is average. And so it was you're looking at someone who's not better or worse, the same, kind of the same. And that's interesting maybe in relation to you considering taking on a higher role that might require some sacrifices.

You know, if you raised your status, would your status actually raise in that sense? Or would you pretty much be the same or feel the same? Would you be the same or feel the same? Would it not actually be worth it? Would it just be a lateral move, as they say? You're not really moving up. We're just going sideways to something slightly different. Because it's like the Greeks thought, you know, large penises were barbaric in the sense.

Sure. If that's an association you have in your mind, that might bear on the dream. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you could have been asking, was he? a barbarian, which isn't the right way to phrase it. But, you know, is he, uh, so how do you, how do you conceive of like the, the, a barbarian in that sense, like a barbaric, uh, um, how would, how would that person differ from a Roman? What would, you know,

I mean, then in that sense, it would be outside, outside of their, uh, you know, their, their, their spear, you know, a foreigner. A foreigner. Yeah. Okay. a foreigner and also not a person not of their ways and customs yeah yeah yeah okay so yeah so that may have been related to the question of you know what what was the quality or nature of this man um and it got phrased in that way uh so it could have been both and i and i imagine i mean the reason romans called people not roman uh barbarians is because well they were of course less

civilized, less erudite and learned, less capable, perhaps. It's kind of a more animalistic in a way. You know, those dirty, you know, barbarians in their animal skins and giant clubs and whatnot. Right. You view yourself higher than your enemy. Yeah. So there is a bit of a status thing going on there as well, in that regard. But also there's a trade-off with that as well as like more

civilized man tend to be less brutal, less barbarous. And so there's a tradeoff for brain power over brains over Braun in a way, which is, you know, brains can build you a gun, but Braun can maybe run faster and punch harder and, you know, physically superior versus mentally superior. And this person was kind of neither way. He was just average. There was a balance in him, maybe, or at least no. The scale didn't tip one side or the other on regarding that.

Yeah. Right. I mean, that addresses that question. I don't know if that's satisfying its own way. Okay. No, I completely forgot about that.

End of the dream. It was like right on the backside of this piece of paper and I didn't even, um, I didn't read it, of course. Um, yeah, any other questions,

uh, elements of the dream that, uh, kind of stick with you and you're like, uh, what about that? What about that? Not really.

I think we, answered most of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely. Well, not as significant as we thought it would be. It's still something. Yeah. And that's where a lot of these are like they feel. What's there's a, there's a poem

that comes from speaking of a fairy tale stage play actually call it Into the Woods. The narrator was a character that I think got taken out of the movie adaptation version that came out a few years back with that lady from she did the the the the the movie about singing i can't remember what is i can't remember her name doesn't matter um anyway the narrator character he said uh he people okay usually the narrator in these movies or or plays are off stage they're not a part of the action well there's a little

bit of breaking the fourth wall in this in this one in so far as bringing the narrator into the story. He'll come out and start narrating and the characters in the play will look at him and talk to him. Like, who are you? And one of his things was, you know, when first I appear, I seem mysterious, but once explained, I'm nothing serious. So sometimes dreams are like that, I think, where we, uh, the mystery of them, the confusion is what makes them seem more than they are. And that once you get into it and you start looking at it and making sense of of it, it, well, it demystifies. It, in a sense, it, um, destroys the, the awe we have looking upon something that we don't

understand and then bringing an understanding to it. It kind of becomes a little more mundane. It robs it of its magic a bit. But I think it a useful way. Hopefully you trade, trade the experience of the mysterious for the benefit of the understanding. And again, in the tradeoff sense. So that's my rant. I can just ramble.

I should, we should wrap it up. I'll just keep talking. the cat was begging for pet i know there she was yeah yeah at least she at least i'm not even she realized i wasn't actually trying to write and she went away she only wants to lay on me when i'm actively trying to take notes um so okay well yeah if you feel good about it we'll uh we'll put a pin in it and i'll stitch these episodes together and uh yeah we'll call it a we'll call it a good one i think yeah all right good deal well let's do this then i'll just say uh by way of wrapping up the show here.

Once again, this has been our friend, Lewis from Nowaresville, USA, complete anonymity, not even his real name. And, yeah, and I can do the same for you. I'll talk to anybody. We'll put up a little graphic over here, and no one will ever know who you are. And that's fine with me.

I'm here for the mystery and solving it. So you don't have to be anybody special. You can just be anybody. Yeah, greetings from Mars. Indeed. Marvin the Martian. I love the guy. But then I'll say,

do all of you out there. Would you kindly like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more. Volunteer Dreamers, viewers for the game streams. 16, currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent dreams in their meanings by Horace G. Hutchinson. All this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. And if you would, you have links in the description, of course, if you'd head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard.locals.com become a member of the community over there. that is where I would prefer to receive any just sustaining donations

if you're not going to buy a book, although I'd recommend buying the books. I think that's the best way to go. And last thing to say is just, Lewis, once again, thanks for being here. As usual. Yep. And everybody out there, thanks for watching.

Stay safe.