Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 158: The Beat of Your Own Drum

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

Thomas Wurm ~ https://www.mountainmindtricks.com/

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. Today we have our friend Thomas Worm from Olympia, Washington. He is the author of Seven Ways to Medicine, available on Amazon, link in the description. He is a master practitioner of hypnosis and mental and emotional release. Can't rebound handwriting. We're going to get right back to him in two seconds. Would you kindly like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers, viewers for the video game streams, etc.

17. Currently available works of historical dream literature. most recent, the fabric of dreams by Catherine Taylor Craig, lovingly reproduced, recreated, and enhanced, if I may say so myself, by yours truly, your friendly neighborhood dream wizard. Also, you can find all this and more at Benjamin the DreamWizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this very podcast. You can listen live or take them with you on the go. There's always one more thing.

Head on over to Benjaminthreadwizard.locals.com, trying to build a community there. That's where I would like to source most dreamers in the future, you know, become a fan and get your, get your opportunity to talk to me. Let's share our dreams with each other. That's enough about me. Back to our guest, Thomas, thank you for being here. Appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. I'm excited for this. First thing I said when you popped on the screen was I love that psychedelic mandala back there. That's fantastic. Thanks, man. Yeah, it's an amazing piece of artwork that I got from Nepal that just really, It's got a lot of energy, you know. Absolutely. It certainly drew my eye. And I think it also, you know, what's in the environment speaks to the person?

Like, how do you live? And for you, this is, you know, I assume it says something about your spiritual practice or how would you characterize it? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think for me, my own spiritual practice really comes down to meditation and Qigong and more Native American style. beliefs and paganism and elements and ritual and ceremony. So magic, of course, you know, all the things. Yeah. I just tweeted out the other day and don't follow me on Twitter.

I'm a crazy person. I say all kinds of weird stuff. But anyway, I'm trying to conceive like what is magic. And I think I've said a lot of things about it. In the past, I've said it's, if you imagine the pyramid of knowledge of whatever with the flame at the top, but there's a gap. The flame isn't actually on touching the pyramid.

There's a gap. And I'm like, magic is what happens in that gap. It gets from all of the building blocks are there to the end results. Something happens in between. I think of that as magic. That's not what I tweeted. That's an example.

But I speak in circles and we'll come back. So what I put out there was, you know, the way I'm trying to conceive of it is that I think of science as the how and religion or spirituality as the why. And where they intersect, that point is magic, that harmony of the right thing at the right time for the right reason, that kind of a thing. I mean, it lines up with the Jungian concepts of synchronicity, et cetera.

I don't know if that idea speaks to you or if I'm just rambling craziness. I love that, man. And I think I think to me it's almost like, creating your own synchronicities, right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Because I'm always trying to conceptualize the history of how we got to where we are. And I try and think long history, broad scale, like before recorded history, like several

hundred thousand years before recorded history. So I don't know what your particular spiritual practices are. Some people think specifically God sculpted clay and made humans fully formed as they are today. I think of it more metaphorically. We became human evolutionarily. That's where I'm at on that thing. And there was a time before we were human. What we are now, our ancestors were not, not human at one point.

And then we are human now. So at some point there was that transition. Or am I going with this? Animals have a rudimentary, I'm doing a lot of talking. I should have you talk more. I'm going to go ahead and ramble for a minute. Hopefully not a whole minute. But animals have kind of a rudimentary ability to process cause and effect, but not really like meta level looking at the analysis of cause and effect itself as a process.

Like a dog can figure out, I need to turn the stick sideways to get through the door, but they can't say, hmm, I should design an experiment according to the scientific method. It's a uniquely human, human thing. And I think that, I think that's where magic is. And we went from, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't see much. difference between magic and science. Like they say any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. That's the famous line. And it's that process of understanding.

And then it used to be what a wizard was or the concept of it as someone who possesses secret knowledge that most people don't. And then it became ubiquitous. We started teaching wizardry, you know, we started teaching science in school. And now, you know, eighth graders know about about the, you know, Newton's laws and thermodynamics and different things. And it's like, that's kind of, I don't know, I'm going to stop there. I don't know if you have things to say.

I can just keep talking forever. Go ahead. I love it, man. Yeah, I think the, wow, there's, you know, I guess my spiritual practice really comes from Hawaii. My own practice of helping others with mental emotional release and hypnosis, I started to see so much energy and things happening. and people connect into highest self.

And so I really, I needed some more structure because I've been very gifted and open energy my whole life. And so I started going to a magic school in Hawaii and really teaching how to use energy, how to work with the elements. And I think one of the processes of that is like, one of the ideas that comes from that school, which is really from hermeticism or other,

it's all over the world, but it's that the universe is mental. And I think that gap you're talking about is like it's the mental process of the mental power of the human being has so much more power than we can understand yet. You know, there's so much the universe is mental. We have such a strong mind like the mind can do anything. It's one of my beliefs. It's just a matter of harnessing the focus through meditation or through, you know, really strong focus in your life to get what you want or to affect things. And of course, this is where ethics and being, you know, in Hawaii we call it Pono, like really being right with ourselves to know what we're doing with our mind.

It's so important. That opened a fascinating tangent in my mind, too, is so I try to be very inclusive in my observation of different traditions of the understanding of dreams. So I'm reviewing all, in most of the books I'm reproducing, recreating, recreating. are Western, just because that's the ones that have been saved and preserved so that I could enhance and make them available in a modern edition that, you know, I'll just go ahead and say it. You can find, look for every one of my book titles. You can find it on some university website. They've got a scan of the old book.

They've got a PDF file or whatever you can download. But I try to put it if you want a physical copy in your hand, you're going to have to get it from me. There's a couple other versions out there. I think mine's the best. mine's the best, but I'm partial in the, I might have some bias there. But also I think it's true. Where was I going with that?

Okay, so there's a lot of, you know, a lot of those guys also mention other traditions, but it's definitely Western perspective. And specifically in the next book I'm working on, there's an article that is, again, from a Western perspective, but it's trying to tell the story, at least as of the 1850s, of Muslim, the tradition of Muslim dream interpretation. And, okay, long story short on that, why am I telling that story? I need to find resources and try to get different, you know, I guess we want to say indigenous people's perspectives on that.

I spoke to one guy for an interview that he talked about the, his ancestors' tradition of the dream time Aboriginal Australian. perspective on that. And then we then we discussed his dream in light of that, uh, spiritual belief, you could say, um, but also just in general, I really appreciate the different ultra-views on psychology as well, don't step on my mouse. Jeez, these cats, they're going to kill me. We're still recording. We're good. Um, so yeah, so this, uh, you know, it surprised me. And then I thought, why would that surprise me to say, you know, that Hawaiians may have a tradition of spirituality that you then informs psychology, which that connects to what I was saying earlier

as well of like the way we evolved over time is that, uh, we created different things like religion and science to help us understand the world. And, and a lot of it has to do with these spiritual perspectives of like, well, what is this thing? What is the ideal? What's the good? How do we, how do we, how do we be virtuous? in the world. And I'll stop there. There was probably a question. I forgot. Yeah. You know, we have a we have a song and a chant and a process we do called the Moimoi-moy-a, which is it's a chant done for to enhance lucid dreaming. And one of the ideas of this is to help you. One, of course, lucid dream, which is to wake up in your

dream, of course. We've probably all heard of that from a Western perspective. but the intention is a little bit deeper and actually with a higher level of practice is actually braiding that dream self and the physical self. And so there's no real difference. And I would say that's definitely happened to me in a dream where actually merged with my dream self. And so there's so many dreams now that are just either pre-tognitive or that's a lesson for me or it's like I don't dream every night, but when I do, it's like, oh, wow,

I'm like fully interacting here like a video game. This is so interesting. The dream world is just, it's just, it really explores every depth of consciousness. You know, it's everything really. I think the dream world is so important. And it's, I'm just in awe of what you're doing, man, because I think it's so cool. And, you know, we do have our own dream interpretation process,

but I think it's probably more of a Carl Jung. process that we use but it's it's important you know the signs and symbols we see in our dreams are so relevant our wake and life absolutely yeah and that's why i try to blend in also um what is the dreamers perspective like because mine doesn't matter it's not my dream the symbols aren't going to be relevant to me and that's also one of the reasons i kind of disbroadly dismissed the dream dictionary approach one symbol can't mean the same thing to every person in all context It's got to be personal. And it's got to be something that I tell dreamers to, well, I don't always say it, but what I'm looking for is that moment where they go, wait a minute.

And then I think of some spontaneous connection forms. And they go, when you said that it made me think this. And that feels true. That feels right. So there's got to be almost a visceral zing of aha. So usually I just ramble until someone has one of those moments and offer the way I describe it. people might get sick of hearing this, but you invite me into your head and in the darkness, we, you know, I'm standing behind your shoulder with a flashlight going, what's that over

there? What if we look at it from this angle? What do you think about this idea? And they're all just suggestions. Here's what that makes me think of. Here's, here's the different ways we could look at that thing. What do you think? And it's got to be something that makes sense to you. That's why I call it a collaborative process. I mean, I'm not here to, you know, have the spirits whisper to me what the truth is. We can conceptualize it as whatever energy I'm tapping into is giving me the inspiration to ask questions or to offer possibilities. But yeah, none of the answers are in me. So what would you what would you say about maybe the Hawaiian traditional concept of dreams?

Is that, is that something you feel, you know, at least versed enough into, to give a rough sketch? I know, I think in the Hawaiian perspective, and, you know, I'm not Hawaiian. I've just done some studying, right? So let's be clear on that. I think for me, just from my school's perspective, that dreams are, actually, I think the place I want to go is actually, I would say they look at it a lot like the Greeks, where the Greeks, in ancient times, they would create the, these sanctuaries, you know, where you could go into town to the regular doctor and you could get your allopathic kind of type medicine to be healed of something, you know, which is great. Or there is the sanctuaries where you would have to do a pilgrimage up into the mountains and

stay with the healers, the seers, the shamans, these people. And you would stay there for so long, like to a point, it could be months, it could be years. The entire intention of the sanctuary is a dream incubation. So basically that person stays there with this team of healers until they have a dream that heals them. And I think I've had so many experiences like that in my own life where it's like I wake up from a dream and it's like everything, everything that's been bothering me or everything that's been going on mentally emotionally, it's like it's settled.

The dream is just, it's cleared. And so I think that that idea that the dream world and our world is, actually there is no difference. It's just a matter of like our own perceptions about it, our own beliefs, our own Western mind trying to grapple with that, as well as maybe more of the Toltec, you know, I would say it's very similar to that where it's like our, our life is our dream.

So why don't we make it the best dream we can, you know? And I think that's, it's so similar. Like the Hawaiian tradition is very, very ancient. It's like our lineage is, there's a hundred twenty one generation. so almost 3,000 years in our school. And so it's so interesting how much it ties into all these other traditions around the world. It's really fascinating. Absolutely.

Yeah. No, and that's actually one of my books, Book 16. Dreams in Homer and Greek Tragedy. He looks at the antiquarian perspective on those ancient civilizations and how they represented their cultural understanding of dreams in works of in that sense. And that's where we get, you know, from, we get some from philosophers, but we get more from the literature and how they say, you know, a vision of Petrochlus came to Achilles. And they're like, you know, this is in his dreams. It's vague enough to, because there's like, the Greeks had like eight words for everything, especially for like love, seven, seven words or something, you know, different shades of meaning. Fair enough. That's, we kind of throw them all into one for simplicity sake. But then we go, well, what do you mean? Then we have to add words and modify. Well, this is familiar. love. Why not just say, you know, Agape or something. You know, that's not, actually, that's not the right connection. But if we had a different word for it, it would be a lot easier to, you know, we're going to, because we're going

to add modifiers anyway. We might as well have a separate word that, my, my opinion, make, make the English better. I was going somewhere with that. Okay. So we got all those, those ancient traditions say. And it, to my mind, there is very little distinction. And again, this is the, the magic contents, context and science and how they kind of work together. We don't know where inspiration comes from. It may as well be magical. It may as well be the muses. Who knows?

You know, Cleo inspiring our love of history. You know, sure, why not? Where does love of history come from? Why does that animator excite someone? We don't know. That's literally magic in my estimate. Okay, long story short on that. The Greeks, and it sounds like the Hawaiians,

looked at it like dreams were, they're different classifications, but one of them was messages from the gods. And what are the gods do? Well, they're above humans. They're the source of certain power and esoteric knowledge. I mean, the gods have access to information that we don't, and that's part of what makes them gods.

And they can communicate that to us sometimes. So it's not practically or functionally different. to say our psychology processes data and therefore is able to rationally connect the dots and give us an answer in the morning and that process is dreams or a god or gods sent us a message of vision in a particular form to allow us to to solve a problem i mean it's in my estimation what you believe what source you believe it comes from is irrelevant to the process and the conclusion. It's pretty much the same.

So the idea that if you're Christian, there is a Christian tradition of dream interpretation, of course, in the Bible. And one of my books, there's going to be a book-heavy episode. Book two, The Mystery of Dreams, is literally a preacher's sermon from 1658, I want to say,

where he talks about how to distinguish divine dreams from delusions of the devil and tell the difference. So his parishioners could wake up in the morning and go, you know, this was a message from God saying to get my act together or praising me for, for following the right path versus this is the devil trying to tempt me into sin or make me betray my neighbors or do all manner of bad things. This is my own ego and, you know, sinful nature speaking to me and encouraging me to do sinful things or whatever.

So from that perspective, and it very much is, you mentioned, I was going somewhere with all that. I don't know if you have comments. I'm going to stop for just a second. go ahead yeah i i think i think i'm ready to do the dream interpretation i'm i'm getting excited oh yeah yeah yeah that's thank you for prompting me we got a we got to make sure we don't run out of time here um where we have there 20 minutes in 28 i think it was yeah that's a great way to go um all right so as per my usual process i just shut up and listen we get the uh dream told as a story well whatever you experience beginning to end and then we'll go go back through it again and try and make some sense of it. So I'm ready when you are. Okay, right on.

Benjamin the dream wizard wants to help you. Here's the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his dreamscapes program features real dreamers gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New dreamscapes episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience and much, much more. To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder

of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the DreamWizard.com. I'm going to recount it, and I have my journal here if I lose something here. But I think, see, so I was in, so funny, it was like a terrarium kind of, but more like a sun room. You know what I'm talking about? Like a glass ceiling with plants. there was people in front of me.

Like I was getting ready to teach a class. And I'm pretty sure I was in Hawaii, but like you know how it is. It's in dreams. It's like I was in Hawaii, but I wasn't not really sure. And then I had a team that was helping me, and they were bringing out all these drums,

like Native American drums, and setting them out in front of me and between me and the class that I was getting ready to teach. And I had a drum on my hand. And now the really interesting thing is that the drums, each drum had a symbol on it, a symbol, like a magic symbol that brings in energy. We could also look at it as like literally the different gods in Hawaii. So there's all these symbols on each drum.

And they're bringing all these drums. And there's 36 drums total. So they're bringing in 35 and I have one in my hand. And I'm getting ready to do it. teach something, but then my teacher walks in, the one that teaches in Hawaii, and I just freeze. And I'm like, I can't teach in front of my teacher. Like, this is so uncomfortable. Like, what am I going to, like, I kind of, I froze up for a minute.

But then I just looked at my drum and just started beating the drum and calling in that energy that was on the drum, which is like, I just started. started playing the drum and bringing in that energy of connecting with highest self. And then the other, like a drum out of the pile that was in front of me would come up in the air and start beating itself. Okay. So one drum is playing itself and I'm pulling in that energy now. And then another drum is pulling in this energy. And I'm doing it consciously like, okay, I want this energy and I want that energy to help me teach this class. and soon enough, like there's

like kind of like a swirl of almost like a, I'm just being surrounded by all these drums that are playing by themselves all around me and I'm calling in all this energy and it was just like this really powerful moment for me. And then all the drums like integrated into one into the one drum of my hand. So there's no more drums,

at all. There's just one in my hand and I'm playing just one drum. And my teacher looks over at me and it's just like, nice. I'm really proud of you. Good job. I think you're ready to teach now. And this was like really, there was a big moment for me in my dream and it was powerful and also kind of like, what is what just happened? I actually, I woke up from it after the completion of the dream and I had to write it all down. just it was a big one for me. Very nice. That is a powerful team.

I would estimate, and I do. If I do say so myself and I said it. Great, great imagery too. So let me go back. Let me lose my pen. Here we go.

I can't with the, I write so fast and I get hand cramps. And then I can't, then I can't hold the pen. Flies off. I know. Lies off into my lap. Yeah.

Okay. So we got page two. We've got, okay, so there's a lot of ways I've done this before. And in the past, it's been primarily, one of the most comfortable with what seems most intuitive to me is just going through it in order, line by line to help me see it through your eyes better.

Describe what's happening. I think you gave pretty good description. So something I've been trying to incorporate is a little more structure. I'm always trying to organize things. And it sounds like, you know, so I'm playing one drum, and I'm trying to use my other drums and bring them together in a way that, you know, makes me ready to teach. As you say, this is fantastic.

I think I know where this is going and it's great. Okay, so long story short on that, I'm trying to incorporate it. And I'm still working through this. This is why I'm trying to verbalize my process as well. So I think where I want to start this time is the idea of enumerating some things. And you literally numerated the drums. This is 36. So location.

Let me start there. So it is a physical. So you're not in an actual terrarium like a sealed bottle. I think that's what they call them, right? Yeah, no, not quite. It's more like a sunroom. More like a sunroom and like a, gosh, it almost felt like a, you know, like how a sauna has like wooden deck everywhere. You know what I mean?

It's like there's like, like soil on the ground, like sand and like wooden walls and then like a glass ceiling and there's lots of plants. It was definitely a building. Okay. So we're going to go, we're going to come back. That's what I'm doing here. So we've got the location. And what we do? I don't know whether to divide objects and people.

So we'll say people are objects in a way. There's definitely, you said there's 36 drums related to Hawaiian gods. Any, oh, there was there was one. You. And sometimes you, you, quote unquote, do not appear in dreams. So I never had a sense of myself. I'm watching something else happen. But you are definitely present.

And you are you. One teacher. Any sense of the size of the audience? What are you doing? I feel like a 12 is coming up. Okay. Question mark. That's okay.

And that's a fair estimate. So it's like, um, um, it could have been literally one person and you're like, whoa, I never thought of that. There was just one person there. I like to do counterfactuals. Okay. What is it not? Comparatively.

It could have been an auditorium. Huge. But this is a, this is a, a dozen people. So it's, it's large enough to be significant, but small enough to be intimate in a way. So kind of kind of thinking of that like this is a small group setting versus I was on stage in front of 50,000 people at the Super Bowl or whatever. Very, very different type of concept. Any other objects in the space that stand out?

You know, so far we've only done people. That's those enumerating those objects. What are you doing? You want to come here? Let's see. It's... Go, mobo. Gotcha.

I think the, as I'm looking over my notes and there's one thing I missed here. Sure. One of the drums, actually the symbol was number 12 is the number associated with it. It was drawn wrong. Like the painting was wrong. So I had to keep, like, I had to adjust it in my mind. Like, no, that's not the right symbol. It's not the right symbol.

And so I had to just keep drawing it. And it's interesting because it's number 12. The number keeps coming up, I guess. Does that symbol eventually. Go ahead. eventually I fixed it and then I can move on to the next drum, but it was like I had to fix that symbol. And it was almost like you've been,

as we draw these symbols for healing work. And so it's almost like, oh, you've been drawing this symbol really like lazy. Like you need to work on this symbol specifically, like on drawing it right in your mind. And so once I fixed it, I kept moving on.

Okay. That's the only thing that's like, that's the one object that really stands out to me. Okay. Is that symbol associated with a specific Hawaiian god? Which one? Yes. Cahanu Allah, which is more, it's like brings energy, like light into your breath and into your lungs. So it connects your breath with more light. And it really works with healing property is definitely more like. like sadness and grief and is associated in the lungs

okay making notes here all right that's that's interesting cool um I suppose just just one more check of any other objects that stand out in the environment anything doesn't have to be just just just trying to

just covering the bases it could have been something you saw on the wall or uh through the ceiling I mean I assume it's it's daytime um Lots of sunlight or indeterminate. Weren't sure of a light source. That's common too. The, um,

could see through the ceiling and it was like blue sky. Okay. And I'd say the other thing that stands out is that my teacher that was there, like he, he wasn't physical. He wasn't physically there. We're like all the other people were there. Physically,

he was more like there in spirit watching me. It's different. I realized that, yeah. Gotcha. very cool and any um any sense of yourself uh in terms of physical appearance or behave uh not behaviors we know those but uh um i think like i'm all i could see in the dream was just like my hands so it's very like um associated um but i would say i'm connecting with it i feel like there's more like I'm wearing all white like ceremony something I would wear for ceremony okay that's

interesting too so ceremonial white lots of this leaning into spiritual practice I mean it's definitely drums of the gods and symbols and white ceremonial robe and uh or right I don't know if it's a robe or not robe popped into my head that's not my that's not your statement um but white ceremonial dress we'll say quote unquote um Okay, that's probably pretty good for objects. And then we've got the idea of behaviors, what, you know, or actions, what happened in the dream. The first one, it's weird to classify this as a behavior,

not under, say, location, but the idea of you, where you are in the room, you are at the position of a teacher. You're in front of the class. Yeah. And again, with the counterfactuals, it would be different to say I was standing in the back of the class and the stage was empty and I knew I was expected to be there but I wasn't. That's a different type of experience.

You're definitely you're putting yourself in a specific location, um, behaviorally in the dream. So I don't know. Am I, I, I don't know what I'm doing. I go on intuition. Am I even classifying this stuff correctly? Who knows? Uh, that's what's happening this time. We'll see.

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's almost as if I'm like, um, the pretty. small it's a smaller space so it's almost the size of a classroom but it's like i'm almost against a wall you know what i mean like one side of the room the class on the other side so it's not this huge room if that if that helps okay yeah not only is it a more intimate crowds more intimate space it's a very it's a small small setting as well one thing i forgot before we moved i completely spaced my mind you said you had a team there so there that's right and i think is yeah and it's there's not any faces or specific people i can see it was just i don't know i had

two or three helpers that's that's all i got and uh um that this is i mean this is whatever whatever i do if it bears fruit it was it was the right thing to do so that that just asking about getting into behaviors like what else have okay so people where they're helping you remember that so you've got uh you as the dream we're in front of the class we've got um helpers handing you drums preparing the drums how would you describe their behavior again what was their role they were they were putting the drums out between me in the class like in an arrangement like it was in rows of 12 so it was um three rows of 12 actually one was missing it's because there was one of my

hand. So there's two rows of 12 and one row of 11. Interesting. So that's an interesting thing that came to us because we're trying to describe behaviorally what's happening. So would you say you saw that process happen? Like you appear in the dream, then that process happens. Then you move on to experiencing other aspects. Or is it more of a, um, the drums were there. And I know they replaced there by helpers like some like like a knowledge of past events but that's what you see in front of you yeah so i'm there with my drum and then i ask my helpers to bring them out and they they're working they're putting them out in front of me and rose and as that happening my teacher shows up so the teacher kind of feeling uncomfortable process and them setting up the drums that's

all happening at the same time okay And then if we're still going kind of chronologically on that, and let me repeat it again. So we've got behaviorally in a sense, you appear or place yourself in front of the class. Helpers come and distribute drums. And those drums are between you in the audience. A class learner, students.

As that's happening, the spirit of your teacher becomes present or you become aware of their presence. And then following on that awareness is when you had the moment of thinking, I can't do this in front of my teacher. Yeah. Yeah, like not can't, but it's like, it's just like, oh, he's watching like. I was going to ask about that phrasing. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just like more like it was a surprise and like, oh, I wasn't planning on that. So I froze for a moment. Okay. Okay. And then what was it like going from frozen to playing the drum that was already in your hands? Oh, that's the other thing. Oh, no, you mentioned that one drum in my hands. You did mention it. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. And it was, it was more like, okay, I'm frozen, but I have all, I literally have these 36 tools in front of me, like, which ones do I need right now to break this frozen feeling? So I started using the images to break that feeling up. And you'd mentioned drum number 12 had been drawn wrong.

Was that the one that was in your hands? No, I had, and my hand was number 30, which really, basically the energy is, is as if you're connecting the unconscious to the conscious mind to open a channel up to highest self. Well, that was the first energy I started working with. interesting that's that's a good one it's a good one to start with um and we're running out of room on this page and the cats on it of course he is they got it what if i put a decoy over here go lay on that no he's too smart for me he gets right back on there go go lay on this one it's okay all right where were we out here uh well actually i need that note too that's my notes you're trying to get down

okay and which drum from the pile or from I wrote pile that's their rose rose rose because I didn't I don't know I wrote pile it just came out of my came out of my head that way

um which drum from the from the rose arose to to float towards you that the first one was I'll speak to each one But as I'm looking, it's like a number one, eight, 12, oh, and then 23. So number one is like in the feminine aspect of God to be present.

So we can forget, practice forgiveness, like with ourselves or other people or like make things right. And then I think I said number eight is like revealing secrets or like opening up communication. That could be between people, even electronic devices, or communication from God even. And then 12, we talked about that one a little bit. It's like a light, bringing more energy to your breath. Actually, we didn't mention it. It can really open up the throat, like the throat. chakra. It's like speaking your truth. And then 23, really it's a fire element. Like,

it's fire energy that really raises the vibration and connects you to highest self, but also it's really good at like burning negative emotions or, you know, we call, I guess the best term I can think of as baggage. burns baggage but it also connects you to your highest self and so then it was i can't remember after that that was the most sequence but it just it was slowly you know from there all of them started coming in but that that's like i remember being very intentional about that sequence because my teacher was there like oh how do i break this feeling this is this is the energy i need to like move yeah and i'm writing down what i what i recall is as is your description of it that

you know, starts with these four, say, and the one that's in your hands, and they all kind of come and merge into that drum, one by one, they float in and, it's almost as if they're, as soon as they start rising and beating by themselves,

it's like they're coming near me and they're like in my space, like they're floating around me. Like, um, that's the best image. It's almost like a tornado, but it's very gentle. It's like an air current that's circling around me.

So by the end of it, they're all circling around me like a tornado, but very gently. Then they come into the one drum. Okay. Where are we at? It's here. You had a sensation. I think maybe you already covered this, but when you were talking about the ones that came first, that was the sense of calling upon specific ones consciously.

Like this one first, then this one. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, like I was definitely like awake in the dream at that point. Like, oh, shit, my teacher's here. You know, like I got a, I got a, what do I do? You know, so that was very conscious, yeah. For sure.

And then the last behavior or action in the dream was the teacher, um, what I wrote down and you can correct it or expand on it, um, saying, good job. You're ready to teach now. Like you felt the sense of those. You didn't hear the word spoken, necessarily, but you got that impression that that was a message intentionally communicated. Yeah, it was like a, it was like an eye contact.

Yeah, like a eye contact and that message was maybe more telepathic than spoken. Okay. I think of the meme, you know, the Robert Redford meme, Mountain Man, and he turned, looks over his shoulder and smiles and nods. That comes into my mind. Yeah. You're on the camera. That's right. You're doing well.

um there he is again know my notes um i am i am going to need my notes because i so what i'm getting from this what what makes sense to me and this is where i do the suggestions portion um where we go with what's what's the what's the narrative what's the story arc we got going on here i think you are having a look at yourself and your bag of tricks your your tools tools of the trade your competence in a way and doing performing a kind of a self-assessment you're like what if I try to share what I know and there's a there's a fine balance between um confidence and arrogance and we're always trying to balance that that line and you know if you there's and there's a lot of ways to, if we do, it was like a Ford Johari window type of thing. There's people who are,

so we put, you know, competence and actual competence and then the way we feel about ourselves. So you can be, what is it? I should probably write it down as a grid, but I'm trying to see it in my head. You can, you can have a realistic self-appraisal or an unrealistic self-appraisal. And that would be, you know, what you are actually capable of either is or is not aligned with the actual level of skill you have. So, and it's very common that we second guess ourselves sometimes and say, am I really up to this task? Am I really ready to do what I'm trying to do? And it seems like, you know, you're writing books and you're probably doing some classes or

public speaking or public speaking or things like that. I do a lot of podcast guesting. And, yes, I'm doing, I'm actually starting some more community type classes that I'm teaching and do a lot of client work. That's probably my main thing is doing a lot of client work. You said you're starting community classes. Did this dream happen to coincide with planning to make that happen or the onset of that actually happening? I mean, it's pretty, it's not too far off.

Yeah. I mean, within a couple of weeks, it kind of like fell in a place with a yoga studio in Portland, actually. So, yeah, maybe, yep. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. So I would, I would expect, like, especially if you're starting a new venture in that type of way, you're going to have concerns about screwing it up. If you're not a narcissist, you're going to wonder, how do I make this work?

I mean, I think I've got my ducks in a row. I think I know what I'm talking about. But do I? Am I really sure? So that's, that's where I'm going with. This is kind of like a, let's, let's just pause a moment and reflect on. where I truly believe I'm at. And I mean, I think the ultimate answer at the end of the dream, the way you answered

yourself was, yeah, I can do this. I can do this. And I think my teacher would agree. And that's kind of our, he was there in spirit and not physically. But he could have easily been there physically because it's all imaginerary, imaginary, which doesn't, which doesn't mean not real. It's a very realistic image. um of of whatever we were thinking of course um okay so going through the process is like you

how do we analyze our competence we have to get realistic appraisal of the of the tools we've acquired and how good we think they are but also our teacher and they're seeking their approval you know because that's the person we looked up to as a knowledgeable expert so if they say we've got it were golden. Um, so I think you put him there, uh, and, and you put him, uh, there to observe the process and, and that's a, that is creating, you've created in your mind a judge, the, the representation of a judge to say, you know, if I'm not up to this, he's going to tell me. He's going to say, that's not what I taught you. That's not how you do this properly. Um, but you got to the end and you said, you know, I displayed my competence and a person who's opinion I respect

gave me the okay, said, you're, you're doing fine. Don't worry about it. But you also, so you took yourself, this, I'm just rambling. If any of this, if you have your own thoughts, please jump in. If you disagree with anything I say, please say, I don't think that's it. Wait. So this is what I'm seeing as you're describing it and yourself and your process. So you imagine, of course, I'm going to be teaching some classes.

I'm going to be in front of the class. And you put yourself in this, in a very beautiful end, and, um, there's soil or sand there's there's an earth earth like connection and there's light and and the um the building itself is open to receiving light and that that it seems like light and healing energy and growth plant life feature very heavily too so these are all the like i've got these there's a lot of ways to to to imagine those those symbols as well um it features heavily and say a spiritual practice of connecting you know we don't connect you know we don't connect spiritually to things that are decaying and dead and, you know, disease and things like that.

That's like focusing in the wrong energy. So we go, you know, light and growth and earth, generative earth imagery. So it's the ideal conditions for something to thrive and grow in this, in this sunroom terrarium style place. That's number one. So you're like, okay, let's say I've got the ideal conditions. The only element, the, the only element, the, The only very, it's a scientific style. You're isolating variables. The variable is me. If I can make use of the environment and the tools and connect with the people, then I will

succeed in the process. And so you imagine yourself going through this process. Like, I'm in front of the class. What do we do? Well, I've got, and it's interesting, you've got helpers. You're, you didn't build, say, build the drums yourself. You didn't invent the symbols. You didn't come up with these concepts.

They have been passed along to you from other people. been helped. You've been provided help in the process of getting to the point where you can share these ideas with people. So you've got helpers bringing in the drums. You've got other people that, you know, guided you or facilitated your own learning experience and put these tools literally in front of you. And it's interesting that it's between, they're not behind you. They're not off the side of the stage. These tools are between you and the audience. It's like, what you're going to do is speak to the audience through these tools. these conceptual things.

And actually you do that. You don't give a lecture. You play the drum. You play the, and each drum is a different symbol. So what you're doing is playing the, you know, the song of my people. You're playing the rhythm of that specific concept. And you've got it broken down by these different fantastic concept. Which one do you have in your hand?

I can't even remember. I wrote it down somewhere. You had in your hands number three. So where do you begin your process? It's like, okay, the first thing I need to do is connect, connect my conscious and my unconscious. I need to tap into what's already here and bring it out into my consciousness so I can then share it with others. Like if it's hidden inside you, you can't get it out. No one else can see it or access it.

You've got to first, you've got to grab it and bring it forward. So you connect to your, and you focus yourself and you say this, this is both a, it's connecting the conscious, the unconscious, but for the purpose of reaching the highest self. So what do you want to do in a teaching situation? You want to bring your best game to facilitate the understanding of the audience to the greatest degree possible. So you're like, I need to, I need to, it's like the concept of, I need to bring my A game to this encounter, to this experience.

and you're going to have to move, kitty. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. There you go. I should, here, let me tear this off. You can have a pad back.

I wonder how much they help me with my random ramblings sometimes. Let me stop there and see if everything I've said so far can actually. I've said a lot, and I'm trying not to lose my train of thought. That's why I'm kind of rambling. No, he's going to lay in all these papers. Stop it. Go ahead.

Did you have any response to that so far? Stop. Yeah. think a lot of the things you're saying are definitely a really, really good perspective. Especially I'm loving about this. You don't know anything about my school or my teacher about, you know, the Hawaiian tradition. Like, you know, it's like a totally independent idea on this, which is so beautiful. And I think the thing that's really sticking out to me is like the creating a judge.

Like, that's really interesting. I think I've definitely, in the beginning, my teacher was like on this pedestal, you know, and I think we do that a lot. A teacher is like a God, right? But it's like as we get to know our teachers, they become, no, they're on the same level as us. And my teacher always says that, you know, like, no, we're on the same level. It's the same foundation.

Like, we're the same. But it took me some years to like see him as equal, to see him as the same as a human being, right? Yeah. And so I think there's that, that, that. healing in this dream of like of completing that that judge or that oh i think there is like what's coming up for me is like there's like a little bit of fear of judgment from him right like seeking that approval like you said that was really nice yeah i think there's that um that nod and final like you're ready for this was like i think that was like that sealed the deal like okay yeah and that's

your own self-assessment you could have you could have had him shaking his head like, I miss something. What, what is it? But you, you know, so you're imagining he would say, you're ready for this. You know, this is good, good, go for it. There's interesting concepts there too. Like, we want to hold our mentors on a bit of a pedestal because they are above us. You know, and it's like, it's the difference between, you know, you're not stupid.

You're ignorant. And a lot of people think of ignorant as stupid. But no, it's just things you don't know. I am 110% ignorant of open heart surgery. Do not put a scalpel in my hands. He's not going to live. So there's nothing wrong. It doesn't mean I'm stupid.

I'm ignorant of open heart surgery. Fair enough. So when we go into a class-like situation, the teacher is above us until we catch up to their level of knowledge. When they've taught us everything they can, then we get that whole student surpasses the master because eventually the master stops practicing, retires, dies. and then we are left to carry on the traditions. And sometimes we think of new things they didn't because they've thought of everything they could up to a certain point in life

and that's as far as they can go. And then we stand on the shoulders of giants. So we surpass them. That's kind of the ideal. Every teacher should want their students to surpass them if possible. Like again, if they're not that narcissist who's just teaching people

because they like the eyeballs and attention. Right, right. So more about your process and how you, you're conceptualizing this, I think, as I say, none of this is me. You got to tell me if I'm right. So you actually go through a very deliberate process of checking your own process. Like, you're going to, okay, let's, I don't know if you're a very like, organized or systematic thinker in terms of like, you're trying to plan things out. Fair enough. That's, I think that's what this

me too. Hello. I see, I see myself. I see myself here. So the very first thing, is you say, okay, let's orient myself properly. I want to do a good job. I want to reach my highest best self. Connect the conscious to the unconscious. Pull out the information and abilities I know are within me and put them to the test. Let's engage the tools that I have. That's number one. Then the drums float up to you. You summon them. You have this feeling of calling for them in a specific order, which we do that. I think we do that in our heads too, and we don't always put it into this imagery. The first one is to say the, uh, um, okay, well, wait, you, you realize what drum you're holding. You realize there's, there's a, there, well, let me back that up. You realize there's a judge,

a standard. And, oh, God, that's where I was going with that. Um, you want the approval of a person you respect, not because you're desperate for approval, like notice me, senpai. That's, you know, that's a bit too far, but it's like, you want the respect of someone that you respect. You respect because you have achieved a standard that they because you respect them and you think they are competent, you want them to see you as equally competent. And so it's not seeking approval necessarily. It's like a validation that you have achieved a commensurate or equal level of competence as as the teacher. So you know, he's there and you're like, okay, I've got there is this. It acknowledges an objective standard for doing the process correctly.

And we get a lot more feedback in physical stuff. Let's say you're an engineer. You design a bridge. It either spans the gap and stands the flow of traffic or it does not. If the bridge collapses, you did it wrong. It was built wrong. It was designed wrong. So there's less objective standards in touchy-feely, humanity, spooky woo, spiritual stuff.

but you know, you can tell, you know, that being said, psychology is real. You can tell if you're connecting with people. You can tell if, you know, there is a very real and tangible process of, I have an idea, I communicate it, and now you have the idea. That does happen even if it's intangible completely. Long story short on that. So there's an objective standard, at least, you know, even if there wasn't in your mind, there is, and that's represented by the teacher.

So the first thing, you're like, okay, how do I know, how do I know I'm doing this, correctly. What is the standard I'm trying to reach? So then you give your first drum. Then you call all of this to get to say. Then you call upon the other drums. And the once you've said, okay, I need to go within and tap into the tools, bag of tools. I'm going to bring those out and share them. But also, I need to be forgiving of myself. You get this feminine aspect of God. You're going to ask the audience to forgive you for any missteps made in good faith. And you're, you're also, I think, saying to forgive yourself for missteps made in good faith. I'm going to do my best.

And it may be imperfect, but it's going to be good. It's, and I'm not going to judge, I'm not going to judge myself too harshly. I think this first drum is a response to, um, understanding that the process will probably be imperfect and that's okay. And you don't have to, it doesn't have to be perfect to be good. And actually, let me stop there. We'll do one, one at a time. and you can respond to each one.

And then, you know, does that feel right to you? So the interesting idea of the forgiveness of the people in front of me, I didn't even think about it that way. And it's like, you know, one of the healing processes we do is whole uponopono where we actually be bringing in light in our own bodies and we put people on a stage and we healed them too. And then give them, you know, we cut the cords and these kinds of things. So it's so like, oh, like, well,

Wow, this is such a different aspect to the classroom is like actually forgiveness is the classroom. Yeah. That's kind of, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And in communication, too, we'd say like if you're going to, and it's different than this is why I do collaborative interpretation sessions. I don't do debates. I'm not here to change your mind about anything. And I'm not trying to argue with anyone about anything.

I don't do verbal. I argue with people on the internet. I type. I have my own beliefs and different stuff like that. But I'm not really, there's a different energy to that. That's confrontational. That is tactical maybe. You would say things to embarrass your opponent and to catch, trip them up in words

because the point is to win. It's different with collaboration. The point is to get to a good result, to speak the truth. And to understand that the other person might need some help. expressing themselves fully and properly. So there's that, there's more of a, you know,

one is an opportunistic attack, and the other is more collaborative, understanding, the collaborative building of understanding. So, yeah, and that's that forgiveness thing of like, you know, if you're in a collaborative communication experience and someone says, X, Y, Z, and you go,

did you mean X, Y, Q? And they would go, oh, yeah, yeah, I said that wrong. And you forgive. You don't use that as, you know, an opportunity to counter it to repost. Long story short on that one, one at a time. And then the next drum that comes up, I wrote down reveal secrets, but also facilitate communication or connection, communication. Communication, yeah.

Yeah, I can't read my own handwriting here. So that's, it's very interesting. This is the first moment that you would imagine yourself in the actual process. What I would say is that the, the first two seem to be internal. Here's what I'm, here's what I need to access within me. Here's the mindset I need to bring to it. And then here's the actual communication. Now we're playing the drum of facilitating communication, which, which could also be

preparatory, but it also feels like, um, and maybe it is because the one you, the one you access next is light, healing, breath, energy, open the throat, because you've got to open the throat to speak. Uh, so you're trying to, uh, overcome that moment of stage fright and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and saying, you know, so maybe eight, eight and 12 kind of go together. I don't know what you might say about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. like kind of it's interesting.

The symbol is almost like those whales that like have the big mouths eat like they help all the water to get the bait the plankton you know it's this wide mouth. It's this opening of the mouth is literally kind of what the energy is. So it's like in like you

I think that's really interesting the communication of like opening the mouth and then number 12 to open the throat like to open the power you're basically opening the power of the throat chakras. So speaking, yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And then the, um, the final element before the gentle tornado of all the drums coming coming to you or even even one at a time moving on from there, but you were conscious, the end of the consciously summoning thing is the,

uh, fire energy, rate raising energy, uh, burning away negative emotions and baggage. There's an element to focusing on a task that is, um, is partly putting aside of the things. You leave your baggage at the door when you're going to work, that kind of thing. It's like the point here is not to trauma dump on the audience. The point is to offer information that is of benefit to them. I mean, it's like what separates a teacher from just someone, anybody talking about anything, their personal problems on stage, you know,

even a comedian that does that, they do it to make the audience laugh. And if they're not making the audience laugh, they're just trauma dumping, as the kids say. So you do want that. You want that focus. There's two elements to it. One is to actually burn away your own baggage so that you can focus. And the other is to have that out of the way so the audience can learn what is most useful to them. I don't know if I'm just saying the same thing twice or if you see a difference there.

Or if anything I've said, it resonates at all. Yeah, go ahead. I think it's the burning the baggage inside, but also. in the audience and then also to me what's coming up is it's almost like creating this clear channel like at this point I've stepped into channeling and I'm while it's really making sense right now where

the conscious mind has completely gone after this because now I'm channeling something which I do channel it's something newer to me and it is sometimes I'm just like I'm gone totally gone and I'm speaking stuff that's just beautiful wisdom, teachings, these kinds of thing where I just totally go unconscious and it's flowing through me.

So I think that's kind of, it's like almost as if I'm channeling one of this class. Yeah. And it might be exactly that if that experience of channeling is what it feels like to you in the dream at this moment of summoning that drum and putting that into practice consciously. Let me get into it. And we call it, you know, there's a flow state in the zone for athletes. lot of different ways to to describe this idea of it's felt like my body was moving on its own and I was a passive observer even though I was doing it but I wasn't like almost get a quasi

dissociative out of body but in body experience and there's like a physical sensation that goes along with it too I've had a couple of those and they're amazing and I can't explain them I can't trigger them I just kind of roll with it and it's interesting that you summon these things consciously specifically in this particular order. And then the then then once you, uh, kind of surrender to the process in a way, once you've set yourself up for success, you've, you've put yourself into the right frame of mind. You've approached things properly. Then the rest of them, it doesn't matter the order anymore. They all come to you. So you've opened yourself up to the entire, it's almost like, um, this was the from, from the beginning of

I need to open myself to my own internal understanding, my unconscious, all the knowledge I've acquired and skills to practically implement this stuff. And then you get down to that burning away baggage to get into the flow state and bam, all the drums, everything you need, all the tools you need come to you. And there's a bit of a, there's a bit of a tornado of drums metaphor to knowledge in our brain in that way. and not just knowledge, wisdom, you know, any, any kind of knowing, understanding, whatever.

It's all there, but we have to access it. So in a way, it swirls, swirls all around us. And it isn't in any particular location. It's everywhere all at once. So the tornado, the gentle tornado of drums is a fantastic imagery. And, you know, first we, so if we look at it, process-oriented type of thing, we look at this swirl of information that's all around us.

but really it's all in us. And it all comes to you. It comes into the drum. It's, and you put these drums in your hands, like the tools are in my hands. And I'm playing the song unique to that drum to communicate that message.

Where's I going with that? Float and merge. And it's, and you used the, I think originally in your, um, description, you said all they all integrate.

And, and that's a, that's a fascinating thing. And if we go to like the young incense, we have to integrate our shadows. so that we don't have our dark side expressing itself unconsciously in ways we do not control, you know, the passive person being aggressive versus assertive. You know, that's the, I could say, the ideal expression or great example of integrating the shadow is going from, you know,

I'm too passive and sometimes I snap and I'm very aggressive. Let's just be assertive. Let's not be passive. Let's not be aggressive. Long story short. Where am I going with that? You use that term integrate. So you're actually, the great thing, too, is that when we integrate a lot of different discrete topics or ideas, they become more than the sum of their parts. They become true knowledge or wisdom. So once you've integrated all these different drums, that's when the teacher spirit, the observer, the judge says, that's how you do it. You're ready. And yeah. And so I would say, if it makes sense to you, this is, you're considering a new.

venture in life, which we always go, God, am I up to this task? This is, I've never done this before. It's, it could all go wrong. This could be a horrible mistake. I could be embarrassed. It could fail financially, but all the different things. And so you have this dream roughly. And it can be thinking about it ahead of time or you can have a specific experience. Like, I've already started teaching and it didn't go so well the first day. Let me double check if this is a good idea or not. But it sounds like this might be something that's coming. up in the future so you're thinking ahead. I've been teaching and it's been going really well, but I think there's like a next,

it's going to the next level, if that makes sense. You know, I think there's what you said, the integration piece at the end there was, to me, it's almost like this. The word that came up was like emergence, like there's an emerging property where it's like all of this energy and like what you said with ideas and topics. And it's kind of like the every practitioner has the, own way of practice these things. So it's like all these other topics that I research or look into. It's like the integration of all the things that I am into this practice is like emerging into

really unique. Yeah. That's a great way to say it too. Like this emerging property that just kind of happens when two things or more come together and create something new in a way that has features of both, but more. Yeah. That's great too. So yeah, that's where I'm going with this, this idea the story arc being, let's look at the next level I'm trying to achieve. Let me reflect on whether I feel up to this task. What are my, what are my, what's my honest self-assessment if how likely this is to succeed because of me? Like, can I do this? And I think through the course of this dream, you, you looked at so many different aspects of the process, realistically appraised your own skill, understanding, and abilities in terms of communication,

and said, you know, I think I'm going to be okay. I think I'm going to go ahead with this. And you haven't since that dream probably haven't seriously considered canceling anything. Like, you know, you're. Oh, not at all. Yeah. I felt very more drawn or like motivated. Yeah.

Woke up from it like, this is good. I'm on the, you have that visceral sense of I'm on the right path, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Very cool. Well, what do you think? Did we come up with something relevant and interesting and possibly true? Yeah, you know, what I think is there's, well, one, thank you. There's a lot of insights here that I'm going to reflect on from your perspective.

That's probably the best part of these. I also think. Sorry. Yeah. And then I think this, this specific. specific sequence as we were talking about it like the 31 8 1223 like the specific sequence just what popped in my mind as you were going through it again was like oh this is like the sequence I can use in like waking life to begin my channeling process like yeah let's try

that it might even what just occurred to me right now is like you might even be able to use that specifically in classes as as an opening as an opening ceremony the first five minutes you can even run them through a visualization of your dream itself of like here's what we're going to do first we're going to play this drum then we're going to play this one and see if you and you might actually be able to help them drop into that kind of a state too it hip now you do the hip we never even talked about your hypnosis thing too this could be with the with chanting with drumming you could be doing a a a facilitative hypnotic hypnotic process with the audience itself to get them in a state of mind to be most receptive to what's going to

follow. I don't know how any of that works, but just an idea. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah, I think there's, this is a big one. This is a dream I'll definitely be reflecting on for a little while for sure. It does. It feels really good. And I appreciate you being, you know, very detailed and having the ability to kind of tease out some of these things too. Not everyone's, has that too. Like I think I've noticed in the past that if, if some guests rely on me too much, they're not going to get good answers.

It's got to be that collaborative process. It's got to be, you got to kind of meet me halfway in a way. I mean, it's just suggestions and they feel right or they don't. And when you have an inspired thought, throw it out there fearlessly. So,

yeah, I think we get the best answers when we're actually able to build it. Take that bucket of Legos and make a big castle together. And I think we're wrapping up just about the right time. This guy's going to start barking. Quiet. Wait. Yeah. Give me two minutes. Two minutes. Hold on. Eli, peanut butter lets me know when the episode's over. Oh, I love that. That's amazing. He does. That's so cool. Come here. Come here, buddy. I'm going to try and pick him up just so he doesn't. Where are you going? Come here. They'll stop barking temporarily if I hold him. And then we'll take you outside.

Okay. All right. Well, let's do this. Let's wrap it up and do the outro. So I'll just say to all the folks watching, this has been our friend Thomas Worm from Olympia, Washington. He is author of Seven Ways to Medicine, available on Amazon,

and Master Practitioner of Hypnosis and Mental and Emotional Release. Oh, and I didn't mention, you can, of course, links are in the description. You can find them at Mountain Mindtricks.com. Again, link in the description and the book link. For my part, would you kindly like, share subscribe smash that like button on your way out um tell your friends always need more

volunteer dreamers 17 currently available works of historical dream literature available on amazon the most recent the fabric of dreams by katherine taylor crag i say this like every day and i can't remember um all this and more at benjamin the dream wizard dot com including a downloadable mp3 versions of this very podcast also if you'd head on over to benjamin thedreamwizard dot locals.com attached to my Rumble account and become, you know, it's free to join. And you can just be a hang out in the community there and share your dreams with me. That's enough shilling out of me. Thomas, thank you for being here.

Fascinating dream. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And what amazing insights we had today. I appreciate it. Wonderful. Always happy to help us.

That makes me happy. It does. And I'll just say to everybody out there. Thanks for listening.