Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 160: Customer Service

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Sonny Moyers ~ http://realestatebook.org/

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. You can see I have a dog that doesn't want to sit still, part for the course, value-added content, as they say. Today, our friend joining us is Sonny Moyers. He is an author, a realtor, and his latest book is, oh, shoot, you said, the architecture of the real estate practice available on Amazon, but also through real estatebook.org. That link will be in the description below. For my part, would you kindly, like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more. viewers for the game streams, volunteer dreamers. You can see I have not had an episode in a minute because nobody reaches out.

Dreams happen in their own time, but definitely I want to talk to you. So let's make that happen. There are currently 17 available works of historical dream literature. Links, of course, my own links in the description below. The most recent is, wow, off the top of my head. It's the fabric of dreams by Catherine Taylor Craig. You can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. Also, head on over to Benjamin the Dream Wizard.

dot locals.com trying to build a community there. And that is enough housekeeping out of me. We're going to try and keep this tight. Our friend doesn't have a lot of time. But, Sonny, thank you for being here. Appreciate your time. Pleased to be here. Thank you very much for the invitation. Good deal. Yeah. Well, let's jump right into it and tell me about your book. Well, my book is a nonfiction book about how to build a real estate practice. It's called the architecture, the real estate practice, the psychology and art of the real estate profession. It's not just a book about,

real estate. It's a book about people, relationships, how to build relationships, and how to build a long-term business practice in real estate. I've been very successful in real estate in my career and an opportunity to write my 300-page book, which is a very complex book. It's more of a textbook than it is a typical book you might see about real estate. It's not about making a million dollars overnight. It's not about flipping homes, not about contracts. It's about how to build relationships with people that stand the test of time over many years. You do multiple transactions with clients. And I must say, I have to apologize because I just finished a bout of laryngitis, so my voice is a little bit scratchy. It's all right. But yeah, it's a, it was very intriguing.

It was very intriguing to read about your podcast because it's not something. that I thought, well, this will connect with real estate, but it might be. We'll explore and see how that works. Very well can be. I mean, my background is in psychology. So there's very little in the human experience that doesn't connect to psychology in some way. And as we were saying briefly before we started recording that, you know, the salesmanship or being a professional who provides a service and needs to communicate with clients, that's

almost universal in every profession, unless you. She kind of, that could be part of the architecture sometimes where you're like, look, I don't do so good with the public. So my wife handles that. I just do the work. She does that she handles the customers. Talk to her. She's, you know. You know, it's interesting.

My book is probably more about not selling than selling. And what I mean by that is typically when you meet someone, just got salesperson staffed across the forehead. You automatically start putting up the blocking mechanisms. and you try to shield yourself from the onslaught of a sales pitch. And so what I teach in my book, my master's degree is in psychology, human behavioral theory, structural, organizational design, and research methods. And so my undergraduates in management with a minor in communications. So what I try to teach in my book is don't be the typical salesperson.

Don't look and act like a salesperson. work with people on a relationship rather than I must sell a product. And even though real estate's a hard product, it's a brick and mortar product, the reality is that what I do is I help people solve problems. And I help them solve problems by helping them find a solution to their problem,

such as a place to live, where should they live, and things like that. So when I talk about salesmanship in the book, it's really more about how to build relationships of trust and confidence than anything else. There's not a whole lot of, but here's how you should sell something in the book. Yeah.

It's much more about how you, here's how you should be a consultant to your client. Here's how you need to help them solve problems. And as a result, through collaboration, come up with a way to solve their problems. Definitely. That's what the book's about. Yeah, and that's a great,

it's a great thing to tease out sometimes, too, the difference between the connotative and denotative meaning of a word, you know, the denotative meaning of salesman is just, just the guy who's there to connect you with the product. I mean, just neutral. And then you got the connotation, which is, yeah, pushy, slimy, you think used car salesmen.

People get these things in there. And they look for the, for the onslaughts. Oh, I got to resist this person who's going to try and make me buy something I don't want. When honestly, so people are saying from my perspective, the only thing I want to sell you on is my ability to do the job well, whatever it is. I want you to believe that, but only because it's true, because I believe it.

You know, my confidence, my competence. Beyond that, you know, I, I, I, it's, I'm in a great position with this, with this whole, whole dream thing because I'm not angling for anything other than a conversation. If we talk it out and we enjoy the process and hopefully, hopefully there's some benefit to it, to you, to some benefit to both of us in, in having the conversation itself. But I have no idea what that's going to look like. I don't have an end goal in mind. Me either, but I'm looking forward to it because I love to explore things. I love to explore

people's thinking. And I think being in your profession and what you've experienced has been, you're very familiar with, I'm sure, social conditioning. Social conditioning is what people think about something. It's been socially conditioned to think a certain thing about something. In this case, what we're talking about is a product salesperson. How has the public been conditioned to think of a salesperson. And so when they typically think about that, they think in terms of, I'm going to meet this guy, he's going to visit with me for a few minutes, he's going to ask me a few questions, he's going to present, and he's going to try to sell me something. Yeah. Well, my whole point in the book is don't do that.

Don't be that person who tries to go into that social conditioning approach, which will automatically cause people to turn you off. So that's why the psychology, of what I've written is so important because it basically says don't be like everybody else, be different. And that differentiation strategy is essential in being successful in high-end sales, meaning large solutions, whether it's commercial tenant representation where I represented clients in large buildings or whether it was selling a very nice property for someone to live in and occupy.

For sure. And that's a great thing too. So thinking about frame of reference or mindset approaching, approaching something. So I think even if you're so, and a lot of people, because because it's been mocked or overused, there's a jargonistic condemnation. I'm trying to find the right words to say, but people say, oh, we're here to provide solutions. And it's like, oh, great, that's your mission statement. Wonderful. Everybody says that.

But really, coming from that mindset of. like I'm not here to sell you something. I'm here to find out what you need and see if I can give it to you. And I do that. I had the same thing too. So when I worked in, you know, inpatient psychiatric for 20 years, a lot of people that I worked with thought of themselves as the provider, as the, as the authority dictating to the client, the patient, you know, I'm the nurse,

you're the patient. I tell you what's what and you listen or obey or whatever. And I always had a different mindset. It's like I called them not, you know, not clients, not patients. I called them customers. They are the end customer. I'm here to provide mental health services to this person. I'm not here to work for the nurses.

I'm not here to work for the facility. They pay my paycheck. Let me hear for the customer. So for me, I always thought of it as customer service. What can I do for this person? What's going to benefit this person the most? So that was my mindset I brought to it. That's a great point.

And I take that a little bit further. I know you're familiar. with Masloff's theory of motivation, theory of need. And I take the hierarchy of the client's needs and wants. And what I do, I apply an understanding of the relationship with the client to understand where that person is in that pathway towards self-actualization. And that self-actualization, which is the highest step of the hierarchy of need, wants, motivation. I work with that to really understand where they are at that particular moment in time. So when I start to identify a client's needs and wants, it's not necessarily brick and mortar or location. It's more of what are you hoping

to achieve with this move? What are you hoping to, what kind of environment are you trying to create? And then help them reach that point of achievement of their needs and wants in the realm of self-actualization. And when you work with very high-end clients who are buying $2 million, $3 million, $10 million homes, then you're really dealing with someone who's not out for shelter and safety. They're reaching a point in their lives where they want something more than that. And so that's one of the things that I focus on. So in my book, I talk about a lot of theories like hierarchy of need in the client buyer-seller,

but also with the hierarchy of clients in general. why some clients are more valuable than others, and that's sometimes taboo to say. Of course, people think in terms of, well, all clients are equal, well, they're not. A client who sends me 20 referrals, a client who works with me over a period of 10 to 15 years, is certainly more valuable to my business than a client who purchases one home and doesn't really have a whole lot to do with me after that. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a relationship with someone that will stay in the test of,

of time, someone who I can help and provide value to over a long period of time. And that's the secret to being successful in real estate. It's the concept of law of the few. I don't know if you've read Malcolm Gladwell's books. Not that one specifically. Okay. Many of his books have to deal with the relationship you have with someone. And basically it says that I'm not looking for a million people to sell homes to.

I'm looking for a few people who I can have. help really achieve their dreams and their goals. And I'm also looking for those people to open up their sphere of influence so that I allow my, they allow me invite me to work with their friends and associates and family. Yeah. Well, and that's great too. And that's so this is a lot of this is coming from, well, there's so many great, great things. I wanted to talk about Maslow. I also wanted to talk about Piaje in the life, life stages. You're in a place where you're like, I've been successful. What's it's generativity versus stagnation. You're in a phase of life where like, well, now I can start giving back. I can tell people what I learned.

That's, I always, I always find that fascinating when folks seeing them find their way in that regard. But, so related to just specifically to your book and the architecture of the real estate practice. So there's, there is, and the architecture is a great word to because you have a, you build, you're building a business. I mean, we use metaphorical language, but there's also, it's architecture, buildings, nice, nice pun built into the, to the idea. but there's a there's different business models that work better for different types of businesses. So some people want to sell to a million people. That's that that's actually my business model.

I would like to sell a million books, you know, but for you, it's like with my, my way, the way that works for what it worked for me and that I think I can teach other people, there's a different approach that's most successful in this specific type of business. And I think that's, that's fantastic. And before I forget, too, the idea of the, I was found it fascinating, too, that you get into something like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And it isn't, you're not always just moving up. You bounce back and forth. And there can be multiple bouncing back and forth within a single interaction. So you get someone who's, they're trying to buy a house. So that because we all need baseline, food, shelter, all that good stuff. But they're doing it because they just got married, which is the social needs. And they want to have a kid, which is also a social need. But that's towards self-actual. So what do you need? You need a house to build a family and to self-actualize. And it's all this kind of recursive feedback loop that.

Exactly right. I agree with you. 100%. And you know, one of the hardest things for a realtor are professional salesperson is, and I say professional, because that's really the key here. Not just a product salesperson, not just selling used cars, as you talked about earlier. Although I'll have a funny story about that later.

Right. When you're a realtor and you're working with someone. one. And you have these ideas and expectations of what they need, what they want. And they tell you that they're willing to purchase a home that has bars over the windows and maybe a locking gate with bars. And the realtor cannot understand why that person would want to buy a home in an area where they need that kind of protection. Well, maybe at the lower price point, in an area, they might need to buy a home in an area, and safety is very important to them. Those gates and those blockings, those things that protect, are not negative to them.

And so one of the hard parts, as you do as a realtor, is to you superimpose your beliefs and feelings on the client, and you supplant what they are really looking for with your own thoughts and ideas about what is acceptable. So as a realtor, you really have to be careful not to replace what they are looking for with what you think they should have. Yeah, or even what... That's one of the things that's most enjoyable to me about what I do. Because the person who...

It's easy when the person says, I have three antique cars that I want to collect and keep at my home, and I want a beautiful backyard with a swimming pool and a spa. That person's at a different level than a person who says, I need a home that's safe and I can protect my family in. And that's just a different part of understanding the client relationship. And then, of course, that ties back to marketing. Because if you want to work with people who are at that higher level of self-actualization, then they're probably going to be in a higher income bracket.

Because most people who reach self-acept for the artist, and perhaps I suspect maybe you, you found something that you enjoy much more, much more satisfying to you than necessarily making money. And so in the case of my book. And food in my belly. And I don't really care about a million dollar bank account. Never going to see that. I don't care.

In the case of my book, I didn't just write a book. I wrote a hardcover, high quality color book with scripts in it and QR codes in it so that someone can go to the QR code and connect to my YouTube channel and hear me talk like I'm talking to you now. Now. Nice. And so when I created a book, I did not create a book to sell a million coffees. I'm at that point in my life.

I'm 73 years old. I'm at that point in my life where I've achieved a certain level of achievement. For me, it's a self-actualization thing to provide something of great value and benefit to someone that will help them be successful and have a great life. Definitely. So that's the self-actualization side of it for myself. is I can help people. And so it's amazing to me that some people find great satisfaction, the artist, for example. The artist finds great satisfaction in painting, and they're willing to go

without a lot of material things in life in order to do what they love to do and want to achieve, which is capturing something on canvas. What I hope to do in my book was capture something in the book that would have a lasting impact upon people's lives. I think it will. And I definitely recommend. many people check it out. One thing you were saying, and it's interesting, too, that very much resonated with me is it's, we're all kind of aware of, okay, I know what I like, and I'm going to try not to superimpose that on someone else.

Here, let me tell you what you should want because that's what I want. We're all kind of aware of that, and especially in psychology, we got to be careful that with, like, the whole countertransference thing, right? But then there's another layer of like our kind of subconscious. things, which are like, unless you know yourself, Socrates style, you got to really look within and make those unknowns known. But the idea of you look at a house going, this is a terrible neighborhood. Well, that's all that they can afford. That's okay. That's okay for them. But for me, too, the idea of what I bring to this and why it resonated is that none of the answers to the

dream stuff are in me. I'm not talking to spirits. I'm not hearing the voice of God. I don't have any magic powers. I listen. And I offer suggestions on what I see and I always I'm always not hyper focus but but constantly aware that nothing I suggest is true it's just what if what if you know I'm offering I'm offering suggestions I'm not telling people what to think or believe and I need to be very sure that I don't push any of my own perspectives as much as humanly possible as much as humanly possible wizards are just humans too you know. Yeah, and you know, that's difficult to do as a realtor. Because what you typically do is you identify six or eight properties to show someone. And you have a vested thought process

in that choice. You chose six or eight properties to show someone. And you hope they pick one. It's easily, well, and it's easily easy to be offended when they don't like those properties. Because you say, here's a really nice property. I don't like it. Here's a property. I don't like it. Well, you've missed what they're really looking for, haven't you? It's not square footage, number of bedrooms or brick. Maybe it's a lifestyle, a situation where they can feel comfortable. And some people don't want to spend a whole bunch of money and want to spend less money and have money to invest with their pets or invest with their hobbies of what they want to do. So one of the most important things in my belief about being a great realtor or great

professional salesperson is to put the client first at all times and understand what their needs and wants are and I don't mean just that they need 2,000 square feet of space or whatever I mean what are they really wanting to achieve and where are they on that pathway toward might call self-actualization so so in that case the artist the artist who would be willing to live in a dumpster so that he could do what he wants to do has a different priorities mindset, as you mentioned, than me. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And definitely that's what it's, uh, it's letting go of that.

And this is, this is the same for practicing clinical psychology. Let go of your ego. There's no, I'm not here to get something from the client in that regard. Uh, it doesn't matter if I am wrong. If I make a suggestion and you go, I, that doesn't feel right. I'm happy to rattle doorknobs that don't come open. That's how I describe it. It's, you know, I'm also happy to be wrong. This happens in might, in the dream work too. A lot of times ago, what if we look at it this way and they go, that's not right. But, you know, because you mentioned that and because you were wrong about it, I had another thought that actually might be right. And we go off on a different tangent. And that would have never happened if I hadn't had

the willingness to be wrong and say it and then let it go in the breeze. Well, yeah, you're exactly right. And I think you probably would agree with this that the way you work with a customer, as you describe them or a patient, whatever you want to, however you want to term them, a person, is a collaborative process. Yes. And when you get out of being collaborative and you turn into, I'm going to tell you what's best for you. I'm going to tell you, I have all the answers. Right. And what I basically teach in my My book is don't have all the answers. Because you may supplant the answer that you think is correct with the customer or the client,

when in fact you're not giving them an opportunity to explain to you what that is. And so one of the most important things in my belief is that in a collaborative environment, in a consultative environment, you're able to help a patient. And you probably have read the works of Sidney Gerard, self-disclosure reciprocity. Oh, that, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that deep, that's a very important part of my book, basically says that through self-disclosure and reciprocity, and the way he wrote that was about psychology, wasn't it?

It was about getting a patient to open up and talk. Well, the same thing applies in a professional salesmanship environment where you're trying, you have to get the customer, the client, or the psychologist therapist, has to have the patient, the patient be willing to open up and share. To remove the mask, which is Gerard wrote the theory of the mask, I'm sure you probably remember that. But Gerard and Daniel Wegner and some of these people that are so powerful in what they've

written are all part of what I write about in my book. And so when I say the psychology of the real estate profession, I'm talking about really psychology, not just what a salesperson says is psychology. So when intuitive thinking, how the brain works, why people assume and take on a certain perspective about you, how professionalism is synonymous with value, and how that professionalism that you demonstrate in working with them can have them form an opinion of value. That higher perceived value means more trust and more confidence in you. So when we talk about the psychology, which is why I loved having the thing. session today because the dreams are interesting I want to go into that yeah but I think it was to

find out more about the psychology from someone who has a great deal of experience in it none of my practice work in psychology was a practical treatment psychology mine is the relationship a laboratory of life and working with people who have needs and wants and things like that but you have practical experience. So I think that one of the reasons I was very interested in this interview was that it was this psychology background and this whole thing because when I tell people, I talk about the psychology of building a role state practice. They look at me like, what's psychology about it? What does that have to do with anything? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, you know, this goes all the way back to school days when they told you, well, there's a bunch of different branches. You can be

purely research focused and work with Lerat and, you know, do surveys. You can do clinical practice and work directly with people, try and bring them back from the edge of destruction or move forward in areas they're blocked. And then there's also the I&O, industrial and organizational psychology, which is like, how do systems of people function in relation to each other towards accomplishing the goal of a business, you know? And that's an entire branch of psychology, which is fascinating. And it is, it is psychology. And a lot of the corporate jargon you get from these people comes out of those I&O psych research and theoretical areas. It's like, well, what if, you know, it's a big thing lately in psychology. The inpatient is, or in general, is trauma-informed care.

Well, that's one thing to be aware of. Yes, it's not the only thing. And it doesn't wash away everything that's gone before. But we should consider if something we're doing, some process we're trying to implement, relate specifically to a person's history of things, bad things that have happened to them. So we don't duplicate that accidentally. Fair enough. But then sometimes people get.

real focus and like they build the entire structure of something on one rigid theory. And I'm like, that's not. That's one of my approach is eclectic. I'm not, I'm not a Freudian, I'm not a youngian, you know, that kind of thing. I agree with you. They take an idea or a concept and they take it to the extreme focusing on that. They make it the whole system. Rather than really focusing in on what the person is saying to you, they take it and they run

with it. And sometimes they run in the wrong direction. So what I believe that is that from a psychological perspective, if you go back to the base thing, I'll just give you a quick example. I was working with a client who I met with the hotel, we're supposed to go look at property. And the client said to me, let's sit down and talk. You sent us this book about finding a home.

And it had a lot of great deal in it about schools. but we don't have children. Why do you think that schools are so important when people don't have children? And that was kind of a little interesting question, wasn't it? They were kind of checking me to see why I would send them a book so focused on schools. And I made the point that in our previous discussion,

they had indicated to me that their time being, here in our area, Dallas, Fort Worth area, would be three to five years, that their goal was to move back, I believe it was Toronto, at the end of that period of time. And my point to them was that, yes, while you don't have children, a very high percentage of the people who will buy your home in five years probably do have children because it's a family neighborhood. And it's highly likely that will be a very important factor. So you have to have an exit plan of how you move back to where you want to go because you've indicated to me that was a life goal of yours to get back to Toronto. Yeah. That's the difference between going with a product-oriented solution,

then really listening to the client. Had they not asked me that question, which I'm really glad they did because that made it absolutely clear that I was putting their needs and their goals and their wants first, not mine. Yeah. And so that's good. That's what true expertise can bring to the process too is like you they may not have even been considering the the factual what is it not factual but but but they may not had a had a had a really solid concept of what it would look like to try and sell the home they knew they were going to but they didn't know how and you were able to throw that in saying look when you do this is what other people are going to be looking for who do have kids and that's a bigger slice of the pie in terms of who could be our potential buyers

uh so you're really covering covering covering covering the basis to to help them out long before they ever sell the house and even if you're not involved in in selling it when they leave. And that's exactly why you really want to understand what the patient or client's goal is. Because their goal may not be to buy a home and live in it forever. Your goal might be to buy a home and live it and enjoy it and sell it and go back to Toronto at some point. Yep.

So when the salesperson puts their needs first of trying to sell something. because they want to make a commission, for example. And they really shorten the benefit to the client. So when you put the client first, you earn trust, you earn that relationship that lasts for many years. And you do one of the most important things in real estate, and that is you show the client why the relationship with you must survive closing. And that's a very important concept because most real estate agents think that, well, you get a client, you go to a, you go look at property, you find something that they like, you go to a closing, they buy it, you give them a gift, maybe you take them to lunch, and then you go away. And when I say the relationship must survive closing, what I'm talking about is I need to give you a reason to want to continue the relationship.

relationship with me past closing. And that's what I mean by does the relationship survive closing? Because the typical buyer social conditioning is, I need a realtor. I'll go get me one. Now that I have my realtor, I go find a house. I need one. And after it's over, goodbye, realtor. Yeah.

I don't need you anymore. And you're not going to help me anymore. So one of the key things in the book is how do you build relationships that survive closing? Yeah. Because if you just let it die at that point, you've wasted an enormous amount of relationship building. Yeah. Clust confidence building. And the result is they go away.

Yeah. And you don't get any referrals either if they're not thinking of you as someone to send their friends. Hey, I had a good experience with this guy. But speaking of serving the client's needs, we got, we're about a half an hour in and you've got to go in about a half an hour in. So I don't want to short you. I'm going to tell you, I'm having so much fun. Let's keep going. I know.

I wanted to. You tell me, I don't want to. to take advantage of your time. Well, I appreciate that. You tell me when you think we need to go. Well, this is, this is a good thing, too. What I was going to say was, I don't want to short you on the dream interpretation experience. So let's make sure we pack that in. But I, uh, most people maybe don't know this. I like clear the entire day when I, when I do these things. Because, uh, sometimes people got an hour. I work with that. We do what we can. I've gone four and a half hours with one person, because they had a long, multi-series. We got deep into it. And that isn't even how real,

clinical private practice dream analysis works. You could spend weeks on a single element of a single dream that is really important to understand. So I'm even shortcutting the process to go four and a half hours and really truncating it to go to go an hour or half an hour. But with it, yeah, I figured we'd, let me write down the time here. We go with their two 30. And why don't you tell me about the dream you brought to share with this and we'll,

we'll see we can collaboratively make of it together. Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you hears the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his Dreamscape's program features real dreamers gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreamscape's episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience and much, much more. To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms

and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the Wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube, and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard. Yeah, it's a long-term dream. It's a continuing dream throughout my lifetime. And I go back to my early childhood where I always dreamed of being the hero. I always dreamed of saving someone's life.

It took on many, many different permutations. It took on a saved a child. I wake up thinking that I saved a child's life or I help someone keep them drowning. And it's different, and it's a frequent dream. I would say it's two or three nights a week. Wow. But it's not always about they're in a car wreck and they're crushed and I've got to save them out of the car,

although that's been one of them. But it's more of, I'm always, and I'm not even sure if it's about being the hero. I think it's about being the saving person. So I've always been confused about why. that dream continues. Yeah. Over many, many years. Recurring dreams are fun. What would you say is the most recent experience of that dream that you have a pretty clear narrative of? You can tell me beginning down how it played out. And I thought about this a great deal before our interview. I had a dream where I was walking and I saw a couple with two children. And one of the parents was

being quite abusive to the two children. And the parents were having an argument at the moment, which made it more maybe loaded for a conflict, but the people who were getting the brunt of the anger for the children. And my dream was that I intervened and caused them to stop and then I turned them into the authorities who investigated

and determined that these children were being abused. And then the rest of the dream was about the process of them getting those children away from those parents into a safe place. And that's the most recent one that I would say is most current in my mind. Okay. Just finishing up my notes here, sorry.

Sure. These people almost always carry the same connotation or the same thing. I see something that needs to be addressed and I do it. And it doesn't always, it almost never ends up with me standing in front of a crowd and getting recognition or something. It's not, it's not that. It's not. Yeah.

No, I can see that in the term element. There's no, there is no crowd. There's no, and everybody clapped, you know. Yeah, no. None of that stuff. It's, it's the kids are safe. That was the, it was the punchline, you might say, of the dream. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Then I often wake up. I often wake up at the end of this dream. Sometimes I can remember it in very great detail. Sometimes I can't remember very much of it. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, well, it's a funny situation with me is that I am the dream wizard who does not remember his dreams. It's very, very rare that I even remember I had a dream that I wake up going, I was just dreaming. What was that? And it's gone. So quickly it's gone. I got like literally five dreams in my entire lifetime.

I can tell you the story of the dream. Yeah. So very envious. Well, here's the thing. This has happened so many times in my life. Of a similar story. It's just a different circumstance that I've kind of gotten like, okay,

uh, I've gotten used to it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, let's do, let's do a little bit more investigating on the. So,

so what I do, I have kind of a three, part process and part two and three blends into each other. How did I come up with this? I don't know. It's just what I did. And then I started analyzing what the hell am I doing intuitively. I listen. I listen. Shut up and listen first. People tell me about the dream. You know, I make sure to try and get as much detail as I can. We go through it again like a deep dive and and try and look at some of the discrete elements, set them aside, give them, give them some context. And then the third is, you know, we try to put together a story about the dream that makes sense to you personally.

and two and three kind of blend together we do as we tease out tease out the parts. When I have a little bit more time when I when when people are like, oh, I got two hours. Let's go. I'll be meticulous. And we'll go through each element. When we're short on time, I try and shorten it up as much as I can. So we might not get as a row of an answer as I'd like to give. But I think we got, I think we can get something here for sure.

One of the first things I like to ask people is what was the environment you were in? when you first entered the dream, the first memory you have of the dream, you're inside a building, you're in the forest, you're on a street corner, where was this taking place? Where were the parents arguing? Well, the most important, the most, on this most recent dream, which I, I don't know, is it possible that suggestively, I knew I was going to be doing this interview, and that I somehow suggestively remembered it? Is that, is the power of suggestion possible in that regard?

I have very vivid memory of this dream. Yeah. But many others, I don't. For sure. Yeah. And a lot of times... In this particular case, I was just walking. I was just walking down the street and the parents were out with their children in the front yard having this argument.

Okay. I don't remember what the argument was about, by the way. I don't remember or even the words that were said. I just know that there was a very high hostility toward the kids. Yeah. And it was... So you're walking down, say up, you know, suburban street and these parents and the children were present on the front yard of their own. And in your mind, you just knew this is their house.

This is their family. Those are their kids. Gotcha. Yeah. And that's, um, street suburban that. That and that's great. That gives a lot of context, too. So this is not, you were not in a dark, dingy, post-apocalyptic industrial area.

You know, that would be a different kind of a thing. So this is more of like in, in. the place you would find, it's like a natural environment, say, for families, is this kind of a kind of a thing. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, maybe it also could have been, well, they were on the stoop of an apartment complex. Say you're, you know, you lived in New York all your life. And what you're used to is, you know, apartment complexes and high rises. And so that could have been a natural thing as well. But not in Texas. Not of Texas. Not so much. Yeah. My, uh,

I don't enjoy traveling, but I, this is a place I'd like to see. I'm just a hermit. I live in a cave. This is my, this is my wizard cave here. Okay, so we got that, that environment. And the, so we've also got the behavior, say, of you stumbling upon a problem. You become aware of a thing. It's, you didn't seek it out necessarily.

This wasn't like, I was driving around town looking for people to save. This is, there's problems kind of get dumped in your lap sometimes is what it seems like. and then you feel responsible to do something about it. A car wreck and you observe the car wreck and you stop to help. Yeah. Things like that. That's very, so yeah, that's a very different context. I like to do a little counterfactuals.

It's not that you were looking, looking for trouble so that you could play hero. It's like, oh, I stumble across something and something about me says, you know, I recognize this is good and I feel the need to do something about I can't let this this this aggression will not stand you know literally towards it towards the kids and the parents are fighting with each other so there's a conflict between the parents and said mom and dad yeah um do you remember any distinguishing features of the two anything stand out you know their clothing their hairstyle particular mannerisms Just the harshness of their voices.

Okay. And I will say that when the children come into the home, there is a slap on the head of the children as they go by. Oh. I don't mean a punch. I mean a slap like, yeah. Yeah, gotcha. And that's the only thing.

I don't remember the faces, the details of the people. In fact, I don't remember they're more like shapes than they were. Sure. Like you and I are looking at each of. other, you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, that's why I asked those questions. This is that rattling doornabs, happy to be wrong type of stuff. That tells me something, too. It's not, like, if I ask you that question and you said, you know what, now that you think of it, kind of reminds me. The woman kind of reminded me and my sister, not exactly, but just this one thing she did. That's how

my sister, now that would say something, but it doesn't. This is more, the more specific something is, the more it's probably related to someone in your life, the more vague it is. It is the concept of family. It is the concept of suburban neighborhood, the concept of conflict between mother and father and how it gets taken out on the children. And that's just shown by the vagueness of the shapes. So we're looking at a different layer of analysis in that regard. Any, let's see, the harshness of the tone comes across. And you don't remember any specific words. Fair enough. Also, it's more

the idea. Just the tone. Yeah, tone. It was the tone. It was the tone. It was the, and you know, I'm sure you could find someone to say you should have minded your own business. Your interpretation of harshness of tone and that little slap on the head might be what 20 out of 25 parents would do, you know? Sure. But it was enough that made me want to intervene. Yeah, for sure. And in a way, you know, of course, dreams can never be wrong.

It is what it is. This is what happened. It's something that never happened. but it's the experience you had, the visual and auditory and emotional experience. So you're looking at that going, I'm not okay with that. And that is perfectly fine. It's like, I see this kind of a situation. I see hostility, harshness of tone, and I see it being taken out on the kids.

That doesn't sit right with me. I feel like this is not an acceptable circumstance. I can allow to continue. That's why I was writing down those things like, you know, you see something that is a genuine problem and you feel a kind of personal responsibility to intervene to, to correct or wrong in a way. So I wrote that off to the side. I was going to ask about more about,

did it seem like they were mutually given and taking or did it seem like one or the other partner was the problem, was the harshest one, was the one that seemed to be the cause? I couldn't say, I don't believe I thought that one was the instigator, you might say. I didn't see one as the, as the bad guy. One is the good guy.

Gotcha. They were just having an argument and evidently the stress or something caused them to be very aggressive toward the kids, you know. Gotcha. So it wasn't a situation of you could obviously tell the husband was henpecked and the wife was out of control or vice versa. The man was abusive and she was terrified. They were giving.

Might have been, but I didn't, I didn't catch that in the dream. No, no, fair enough. Or I can't remember it. Or I can't remember either one. Yeah, either one. Well, if I, very often people give me, um, let's say they give me 10. things that they remember, we start talking about him and like 15 things between each thing pops up in there. Like, now that you mention it. But, but not finding things is also, I think,

very, very interesting too, because this is definitely not a dynamic you're looking at, well, I'm going to put the blame on one person or the other. This is, let's imagine they're both equally at fault. So this is a problem with the relationship itself and not necessarily one, one side of the other being out of whack. They're equally to blame. Um, And a lot of times, yeah, if you have, we see this in real life with people that are just maybe struggling, maybe doing their best, and maybe didn't have the best upbringing or whatnot, but they get into bad relationships. A man, it's mutually antagonistic.

And it's like, why are you guys even together? But they don't know any better. They thrive on the chaos in some ways. I wouldn't know how to have a healthy relationship. I got it. People just yell at each other. That's just how it is, right? You know, it's interesting that you brought that up that way because it did cause me to think

of something that would be. Not related to the dream, but related to my prior life. My father was bipolar. And my father could be the greatest man in the world and the most lovable dad you could be, or he could also be a monster. I don't mean beat me, but I mean be very harsh or very... My dad would go through these mood swings, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Where, and I don't know if it has anything to do with the dream. But when you were talking about who was at fault or what was, it made me think, you know, that I guess where there's smoke, there's fire. Sure. Meaning, you know, there's this harshness and this, which caused me to be concerned for the kids, you know. Definitely. And no, I think that's very relevant. This actually, that's exactly how this works. I ramble until something pops into your mind and you go, wait a minute, that made me think of that.

Okay. we're on to something there. Now, I'm not going to make too much of it or assert. I know exactly what it means. But talking about the idea is you have, so from your personal experience, the intimate knowledge that the sins of the father are visited upon the child, if we put it that way. If your parents are messed up, they're going to pass on that to you in terms of poor modeling. They're also going to just be directly impactful on how you experience life and your own suffering. You know, if your dad's unstable, if a parent, is unsafe. If two parents are mutually unstable, man, the kids are going to suffer. So you've got a very direct connection to your personal experience. Like, yeah. And a lot of times, so dreams are, they deal in these nebulous concepts. And they're drawn from our, well, obviously, I would say drawn from our thoughts and, and most specifically personal experiences. So if you're looking at this situation, one of the reasons we might say you felt the need to intervene was like, I've been there. I've experienced that. That's not okay. No.

child should go through what I did. So there's a, there's a connection there of, okay, why that motivation for you personally? And some other people, as, as you were saying, might have looked at that going, ah, you know, everybody's parents bicker and now everybody's parents hit him on the head once in a while. Like, that's what I went through, didn't hurt me none. And they've more internalized it, but you looked at it from a very different situation saying, nah, you know, maybe you would have wished someone had been able to intervene on your behalf. It's like, I didn't have to suffer as much as I did when dad was having his bad times. Maybe someone should have stepped in a little bit more to do something to help him out.

I mean, he was suffering too. It's one of those things where. Oh, yeah. So that's very good. So what we do is we just leave that there. We put a pin in it and say, huh, that's interesting. Let's see if it connects to anything else. So there was a, the way you described a moment ago was there was a, there was a bit of a sequence of events.

And first, it was the parents arguing. and the children were present, but then they went inside at some point, and that's when the cuff to the head happened. How would you kind of describe how that played out? Like, you're walking by, you see them in the yard, and then... I see this as if you've ever been into someplace where you're walking by a picture, and you're just kind of observing it. Yeah. And then you get to the point where you're not watching it anymore. Kind of way this was.

I was walking by. the kids go into the house with a little slap and then I am continuing down the road and I lose touch with it. Okay. I remember that it happened. And that's when I called the authorities. This is the dream.

Yeah. Now, I don't know what happened after that happened. I don't know what the rest of the dream was. Gotcha. But, so it was kind of like a movie that you watched a little bit of it. Yeah. Then it just kind of goes away.

Exactly. Okay, interesting. So you didn't stop to watch necessarily. You didn't like plant both feet and stare at them going, what is this? You were, you were observing it in passing. Interesting too, that idea of stumbling, also stumbling upon something. And sometimes we don't, we don't know what to do immediately. Like, I don't even know what to say.

What's the best? How would I personally intervene in this? Do I tell them, do I yell at the parents? Do I go up to him get on my knees and beg? Please, you're hurting your kids. stop. What's the most effective intervention? Sometimes we don't, there's another, you've heard of the concept of stare thoughts.

And once like, that's the specific term. I have, it's like the thoughts you have the next day when you're climbing a flight of stairs randomly about a conversation you had yesterday, I should have said X, Y, Z. Stare, stare thoughts. Some people call them shower thoughts, but that's also another kind of random category. but that idea, and a lot of us, we don't know what to do until we've thought about a situation. And after the fact, in retrospect, hindsight 2020, we can go, I should have done this. So for you, maybe, maybe just a thought we've got a situation where you don't know what to do.

So you just observe. First you observe fully to see what am I looking at here. Some people yell at each other and then it's over and then they hug their kids and they apologize. That could have been the conclusion. It wasn't. What happened was a very visual reference. representation of this is literally physically being taken out on the kids, you know,

a smack on the head. And you're like, okay, that's not okay. That's not how this should have turned out. This whole situation front to back was bad. Now that I've had time to think about it, I know what to do. So there could be something in your, in your general approach to situations is getting the full picture before you make a decision. I tell people to sleep on it all the time because we process things in our sleep. And if you don't remember a dream at all, you might wake up the next day with an answer happens to me all the time. Can't encourage it highly enough. Unless something's an emergency, you got to dive in and do something. You mentioned this recurring dream about, okay, there's a car. You're not going to just drive by and go, maybe I should call 911. You're like, no, I'm going to

try and get him out of the car. That's more immediates. So this one is, um, this type of situation suggests to me also that it's some problems are immediate like the car wreck and pulling someone Some problems are chronic. Like, is your intervention in that moment going to change anything long term? Is it going to fix the parents' relationship? Is it going to get them to stop hitting their kids? It's going to make it worse. There's some situations where if you shame a parent for being abusive in public, that kid's

going to get it twice as hard when they go home. And you're not going to be in the home to stop them from doing it again. So what do you do? Okay, long story short, what you decided was, okay, now that I have a full understanding in the situation, I saw it, I've decided. I've decided myself based on personal experience. That's not okay. I'm going to call the authorities.

And then that's taking action to intervene. You identify a solution and you put it into practice. And then you said the rest of the dream, your original description, the rest of the dream was taken up with the process of getting the kids to safety. And you don't really have a- Oh, the thing I remember is that as I passed by the house, I dial my phone and call the authorities. Okay. And that's it.

Gotcha. And then that section of the dream ends, but you knew something was going to happen. You knew it was going to be taken care of? Well, I didn't know. I just called and said it should be reported. But later, I did find out that the kids were taken away. Okay. How did that play?

Was that kind of a fuzzy ending? It was kind of like the next dream I had. It was kind of like a continuation of, well, you know, that worked out okay, you know? That's the weird part. You remember I said in the beginning that my dreams kind of go on and sometimes they're totally disrupted. In other words, what I think about later is nothing to do with what that story was,

but I think they are. Yeah. You know how weird dreams can be where they have no sense of reality or touch? They're just kind of aware. Yeah, all over the place. And then what I think is fascinating too is is the the breadth of things. Some people have that lucid dreaming experience. Don't know what to do with that yet working on it.

But it feels so real. It's like if I didn't know better, if I wasn't lucid at this moment in this dream, I would swear this was reality. And then there's dreams that are that are more what we call it dreamlike. It's more easy and vague and it's sensations and emotions and emotions and and suggestions of possible ideas that aren't really coherent. But I got an idea on this here. So you did find out, say, in a continuation dream later the same night, that, okay, well, it seems your effort to intervene was successful.

The kids were, you know, taken care of properly by the authorities. It was a positive result. Your efforts were successful in a way. I just note that real quick. And you did mention something earlier, which I think is probably also relevant. How many nights ago would you say you had this particular dream? Eight to ten days. Okay.

Something like that. I mean, I don't know the exact date, but. Yeah. No, that's rough. But I dream. I dream things similar to this, not the same dreams. Yeah. Probably a couple nights a week.

So that's typically. my, rather my typical process is to, if we're going to address recurring dreams, that's great. And most people want to start by telling me how all these dreams have a similar theme. And that's not bad necessarily, but I usually go from the specific to the general in a way of, okay, let's nail down what this dream looks like. And then let's start comparing it to other dreams and see how those, most people's intuition is to do it the other way around. It just works better for me this way. I don't think either way is wrong. But you mentioned, okay, the possibility that, that knowing you were going to talk to me influenced the type of dream that you might have.

And I think that's definitely true. Like I'll get someone contact me and they'll go, oh yeah, I got this great dream. And they start telling me about it. No, no, no, no, don't tell me my process. I got to go in blind and don't overthink it. I'd give you immediate intuitive responses. But the night before we speak, they have a completely different dream.

And they're like, we need to talk about this one. Like literally they wake up that morning and then. Yeah. That's very interesting because in our discussion. prior to the interview, you had asked for me to relate a dream. And I hadn't done that yet. And then maybe a day or two ago, I responded with this scenario, not the detailed scenario, but just saving someone, helping someone, that kind of thing.

And when I said the power of suggestion, might have been that I dreamed this. knowing I was going to be talking to you. And I did look and see what you do and how some of the episodes and some of the things that you're doing and being very interested in psychology from a clinical perspective, although I've never been involved in it in a clinical perspective. I think maybe that might have been, I don't know, maybe the suggestion helped to do that. I don't know. Yeah.

But that was another thing. I'm glad you brought that back up again because I believe, and I think evidence shows that you can do what's called dream programming. can kind of tell yourself to dream about a specific thing. And it's funny. It works. There's evidence that it works both ways that there's, uh, one guy that wrote, you know, related his experience that if he wanted to not dream about something at all, he would focus on that thing specifically when he went to bed and then he would not dream of it. Interesting. And you would think it would be the other way. So for him, that's the way it worked. But typically you can go to bed and focus on things. And, and if something is important to you, you'll probably keep thinking about it in your sleep. And you'll probably keep thinking about it in your sleep. I don't know. I'm going to say I'm not the expert on how to dream program. I think there's other people to do that much better. It's not maybe I'll maybe I'll get into that at some point. I'm more more on the interpretation side of just letting it be what it is. What bubbles up from the subconscious. But but so long story short, I ramble. I think you can definitely inspire yourself to have a dream that is related to a topic you would want to talk about by knowing that a chance to talk about it is coming. I think that's absolutely. absolutely real. And I think there's a, I think the fact that that came to your mind in relation

to this dream probably means that there's something, something to it. Um, you, you talk about, let's see, trying to bring all this stuff together. Uh, you talk about a recurring series of dreams where you enact the, the role of, of a savior and, and not from a savior complex perspective of self, self, self aggrandizing, but like, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of some, of, of, of, of, of, being of service in a way. It's more, more, more than, more than, you know, looking to, looking to, looking for approval, you're looking to have an effect. And would you say that's kind of central to your personality?

Yeah. The words came to my mind a do-gooder. Yeah. In that, in that, you know, I've always believed that you try to, in fact, it was because of someone that I knew, a lady who was an amazing woman. quite older than me and she was very well respected in the business world and one of her philosophies was do something good for someone every day and i've always taken that and believed in that yeah so you know when i when i say do good or that's what i mean uh looking for ways to

help people looking for things to do that's nice for people things like that yeah and that's very different than being a, say, a moral busy body. You're not looking to correct people because you're right and you know better and you're going to shake your finger and then that makes you feel good. But like really genuine problems. There's a, there's a weird, I'm trying to tease it out of my head. The difference between aiming for altruistic self-sacrifice and a mutual benefit win-win. So the mutual benefit win-win is you got a problem. I can provide a solution and we both feel good about it after it's done. And there's nothing wrong with, with wanting that self satisfaction of the idea of, you know, dog on it, I helped someone had a problem and I did. And that

just makes me feel good. So the idea of, yeah, we want people to feel good about helping others and not give them a hard time about it. Like, oh, you just, you're just in it for you, for you for your feeling. Yeah. You know, uh, forgive me for, for, for feeling good about helping people, right? I don't I don't feel bad about that at all. No, no, sir. So, so you've got that as a perspective. So no, no joke that if this is on your mind on a regular basis, you're going to return to that theme in your head and probably, number one, to revisit metaphorical or comparative representations of situations you have not figured out how to contribute to. So you've got a specific problem. You don't know what to do. You're going to dream about it. It's going to give you a

dream experience that is related, but maybe in a way that's not obvious. But that experience will probably lead to the ability to, you know, say, I figured it out. I know what to do. But then also, what was, there were two sides to that coin to. Sometimes you just, dreams are just reviewing past successes in that regard of saying, you know, if I ever doubt my commitment to this, maybe I went through a day and I couldn't find someone to help. And I go, there probably was someone. How bad should I feel about not finding them? And then you have a dream that night to say, look, you've helped other people.

Look at how you help this person. Don't worry about it. Some days you don't help anybody. Don't beat yourself up. So those are two different reasons for the potential recurring nature of this is it's something frequently on your mind in general. Or three, three reasons. In general, something frequently on your mind, always looking for an opportunity.

dreaming about specific solutions and then sometimes self, self-reinforcing in that way of like, you know, or sometimes you look at what, here's another situation we all run into as well. It's like, I've already helped three people today. I'm exhausted. I know the fourth person needs help. I just, I can't. I can't.

How bad should you feel about that? Well, you tried. And so sometimes these dreams come to you as well to say, don't beat yourself up again, in that regard. I'm just going to stop there for a moment, see if you have any feedback on that, that, those concepts. Yeah, that never occurred to me because, when you're mentioning this, I don't usually dream multiple dreams.

When I wake up, there's a dream. I can remember certain parts of it, but I don't remember multiple dreams. So that was interesting when you said that about, I saved three people today. I'm pretty tired, you know? Yeah, yeah. It was, yeah. We're only human, you know, this is only so many.

so many people you can help and there's always more people that need help. So a lot of different reasons why this type of a theme might recur based on based on based on who you are and what you consider to be to be important. And then this one. So there's also the layer of analysis, which I think is probably relevant to is like there's a reason you wrote this book at this phase of your life, the book that you want to share with people. So there would be something in your head over the past few weeks and maybe a week ago knowing it's interesting timeframes to like the one week pre preversity like after what what is it called when there's a one week anniversary and one month and one year we have all these things but there's also the the units of time we use to

to identify significant events like oh i only have one week left before an important thing i only have one day left i only have one hour left these these moments so a week ago eight to ten days, you may have thought, I'm going to be on the show with this guy. And how am I going to represent myself? What kind of a person I am? How does this relate to the book I'm going to popularize or, what's the word, you know, what's a good word for it? You know, introduce people to. And so sometimes we have these, these reflecting on our on our own self-concept in terms of presentation. I'm going to have to say something and be a particular way, in this conversation.

So this could be related to that in the idea of like, you know, what kind of a person am I? And what am I going to say about myself and my book and my approach to life and, and why anyone should one should care? I'm the kind of person that pays attention to potential problems and feels responsible to, to intervene and make life better for people. And it is as if I'm the kind of person that comes across this situation. that maybe most people would say, you know, that's none of my business, but me, I can't let

it slide. I can't let those kids be hurt because I know what it's like to be a hurt kid. And that says something about who you are. I'm going to stop there for a moment. I'm just trying to build the narrative around the reason for the dream. And you say what you think. It might be a lot to process. If I do that, I ramble. Well, it is.

It is a lot to process because of my experience as a child with my father. You know, there were numerous instances where I would come into the room and notice that he was not a friendly, nice person that day. And I might turn and have a fry pan tossed at me, you know. So there were some pretty aggressive behaviors. Yeah. But nothing that ever bordered on being hospitalized because of his. actions or something like that. Gotcha. But yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's related to this dream, but it could be because there

were some definitely walking on eggshell moments where you came in and you knew it was bad, so you just kind of said, you know, sit down and keep your head down. Keep your head down. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, I think we all know those things. And yeah. But, you know, the odd thing about that is sometimes. I think in life, you see people as all good or all bad.

The fact is, my dad was a brilliant man, and he was a great teacher for me. So there were so many good things. And then there were these occasional bad moments. Yeah, that's tough too. But that's a great perspective to have in general on people, is that nobody is all good or all bad. I mean, what was it? Even Darth Vader got redeemed at the end. You know, it's too late.

For me, son. But, you know, but most of us are more complicated than that. Yeah, and even some of the worst abusers are like, you know, they were good days. And it sounded like this wasn't a, at least in your estimation, looking back on it. It's, uh, it was a 50-50 proposition maybe. And sometimes he was off his, off his rocker and sometimes he was amazing. And people are very often complicated. And sometimes situations are complicated too.

Like you had to actually, in this particular dream, you had to actually observe what's going on here. Are these parents just yelling at each other? no, this is actually also impacting the kids. So I think if that had turned out differently in the, again, positing the counterfactual, if it had turned out that the parents just walked away from each other, you're going to huff. And the kids were like looking at each other like, this happens every day, but we're okay with it. And they weren't directly, you weren't shown them directly suffering. It would have been a situation where you might have gone, I don't know if I need to call the authorities,

but you showed yourself like, okay, imagine this. relationship is damaged enough that they're taking it out on the kids. Okay. That, that it was it was the slap on the head. Yeah. Exactly. That was that that was and I remember in the dream I thinking, oh, you know, she, a slap in the head had to hurt, you know. Yeah. And it's a great self-analysis or self-check. You check in with yourself to say, okay, what is my threshold for intervention? The parents were just yelling at each other, hey, that happens sometimes. The moment it goes to the kids and the kids are suffering, kids are being physically abused at that point. That's when I need to step in and say,

this is not okay. Um, so again, I think it feels to me and if it makes sense to you, that this idea that it would be connected to your broader self concept of, and specifically, you know, being a week ago, um, just because it, it came to your mind as we were getting ready to talk about this stuff. Um, I wonder if I had this dream because I know I was going to be talking to him. I think maybe, I think maybe that is connected. Go ahead. Yeah, that's an interesting scenario because, as I said, I asked about the power of suggestion that I knew I was going to be visiting with you. And at the time that I had needed to give you a dream, I just didn't have it at that moment to go back and repeat it. So I'm wondering about that suggestion, because the brain is so complex.

It's for sure. you know it's oh well do you feel like we did not assess or or or observe or spend enough time on any specific element from the dream that we could well now that we've done this yeah yeah now that we've done this uh if in the future you're willing to i would love to continue i do have to leave in about 10 minutes but yeah we'll have another appointment otherwise i wouldn't even leave because i'm enjoying the heck out of this oh thank you Thank you. Yeah.

But I think probably if you're up to at some point, I'd love to do another one. Yeah. And just pick up and maybe go deeper into this. And it also might cause me an opportunity to think about the relationship of that father dynamic, bipolar dynamic and what's happening here. And it's very, you know, and I'm not going to keep you too long. We're going to respect your time. Of course, but I think it's fascinating to see that a lot of times our struggles in life,

form the person we are. I mean, for good or bad, you could have been, you could have turned out to be a real bastard because your dad wasn't nice to you. And that's a reason. But it can also be very much the opposite that you go, you know, I look at what I've suffered and I don't want other people to go through that. So I'm going to approach this differently. I'm going to be more stable. I'm going to check in with my, am I making good decisions and my being of service to people around me? I mean, negative experiences can very much influence you to have positive, positive behaviors down the road. Not that we recommend it, right? We don't want to do.

I do remember a movie about this subject. Silver Linings Playbook. Yeah. Yeah. And that movie is about the bipolar dynamic in a family. Oh, yeah. The father-son relationship. And that movie really hit home with me.

I probably watched that movie 10, 12 times. Oh, yeah. Because it's, to me, it's a real, the tie-in's very similar. in that movie the dad's a great guy and he's also a cad you know and it was also a very realistic i think uh portrayal of what bipolar looks like from the outside how it how it feels for the people caught up in it the parents you know he's waking him up at three in the morning going look at this look at this paper look at this means something you got to wake up right now and feel as intensely about it as i do and you're bipolar go to take your meds go to bed god

let's talk tomorrow we're sleeping here. It's not considerate, yada, yada, all that good stuff. It was a great representation. My dad, my dad could never stay on his meds. And at 64, I guess, he committed suicide. Long after my mother had passed away, he committed suicide. Yeah. That's another thing that can make you very hyper aware of yourself in relation to making good decisions is looking at someone who did not, a previous example going like, I'm just never going to be like that. I'm not going to, I see how that negatively affected me. I don't want to do that to anybody else.

Yeah, very much. Yeah. Well, we got to get you out here. I know I'm enjoying the talk with you as well. It's always great to get to know people and find out what does their dreams say about who they are and what they think is important in the world. Well, I'd like to visit with you again, whether it's on camera or not, because I enjoy the conversation greatly.

Very nice. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, if you think we got a, you know, as much of an answer as we can get in the time and and I've left you with some some questions to sleep on. Then we'll wrap it up here. I'll just say this has been our friend Sonny Moyers out of out of Texas author, realtor and his book is architecture of the real estate practice available on Amazon,

but you're going to want to go to real estate book.org link in the description below, of course. For my part, like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers, haven't had too many lately. There are 17 currently available works of historical. dream literature, also available on Amazon. The most recent is The Fabric of Dreams by Catherine Tietler-Craig, lovingly reproduced, recreated, and enhanced by myself, if I do, if I do say so.

Also, if you have all this and more, of course, at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this podcast. You can take me to the gym with you. Keep them forever. Who knows? Also, head on over to Benjaminthreamwizard.locals.com, trying to build a community there. It's attached to my Rumble account.

Free to join. You can give me money or not. want more people to talk to so sunny once again good talking to you i appreciate your time thank you so much Benjamin good deal and everybody out there thanks for watching