Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 162: Esprit d’Aventure

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

Regina Huber ~ https://www.transformyourperformance.com/

Greetings, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. Today we have our, today we have cats all over my paperwork. I can't even read it. We have our friend Regina Huber all the way from France. That is fantastic. I love talking to an international audience. She is, let me read my own notes here, a transformational leadership coach, an author, and an insatiably curious seeker of adventure.

I made that part up based on our discussion. So she's not tootting your own horn. I'm doing it. She has a book, Speak Up, Stand Out and Shine. You can find her at Transform Your Performance.com. We're going to get right back to her in two seconds. Would you kindly, like, share, subscribe, tell your friends, I always need more volunteer dreamers.

I would like to talk to you. If you are within the sound of my voice, we can make an episode. People dream, and I'll talk to anybody. So you don't have to be anybody special. You don't have to be selling a book. We can make it happen. Speaking of books, I have my own. There are currently 17 available works of historical dream.

literature, the most recent, the fabric of dreams by Catherine Taylor Craig. You can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this very podcast. Also, if you would please head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard.locals.com, trying to build a community there. It's attached to my Rumble account. It is free to join. And that is enough shilling out of me.

Regina, thank you for being here. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having me on today, Benjamin. So this is exciting. It's different, but I'm probably one of the most active and most intense dreamers you could find on this planet. Very cool. And anyone familiar with the show knows that I don't remember my dreams at all. It's very infrequent that I even remember I had a dream.

Like this morning, I woke up going, I was in a dream and it's gone. It's gone. I couldn't even tell you anything. Three seconds after I wake up, it's faded away already. That's a very common experience for a lot of people. but it's also very common that people are very active and intense dreamers with high degrees of recall. I got just a random tangent. I got someone in the Discord.

There's you can see for there's a category called Share Your Dreams. And this person will often message me privately, though, because a lot of them have some content that they don't want to share or that might not be a safer work in public consumption, that kind of thing. But that's, I mean, the level detail just blows me away. I'm kind of jealous, honestly, of folks that have a high recall and a very intense dream life. Wow, yeah. You know, I usually wake up in the morning and I remember like three dreams. And then, of course, if I don't write them down immediately, then they fade off too. But there are some that stay and there's some that seem to be recurring.

And sometimes we're just not sure, are they really recurring? or is it the first time? You know, that's something that intrigues me quite a lot. Maybe it's just something that we perceive as recurring, and it's not really true. So I'm not quite sure about that. And then the other thing is, yes, I did start writing down my dreams at some point, but then I stopped because it was just too much work. It took me like a half hour every morning to write down all the details that I remembered.

Didn't have the time, so. Yeah, definitely. And there's like, you have to do those, those kind of time investment balance sheet type of things, which is what am I doing with this information? How necessary is it to catalog? This is it worth a half an hour of my day to keep a dream journal every time I wake up? Now, for some people, maybe it is. Maybe they have figured out, you know, I've spoken to some folks who are like this. And there's historical record of people like this to, wrote down all their dreams.

And they thought about them a lot and were able to draw insights from them. most of us we get busy we got things to do maybe we got kids or pets or responsibilities we got to get up and out the door you know you'd just rather sleep an extra half an hour and have the dreams then wake up half an hour earlier and spend a half an hour writing them all down so it's definitely what can you what value can you get out of it that makes a difference on whether you should keep that kind of a dedicated dream journal I mean so kid to write things down once in a time once in a while I would say and I'd say this to folks all the time I believe it'd be

my dream theory that I'm putting together, which is built of other people's dream theories and whatnot. I believe that dreams self-select for importance, that not only will you remember ones that have something valuable in them, they will feel valuable. They will feel important to understand. So definitely recurring dreams, I think, fall into that category a lot because there's something we're still trying to process in our sleep over a lifetime, like larger fundamental core issues that keep popping back up. And when we have a scenario in the real world that relates to that, that brings the question we're considering back into the top of mind, that's when those recurring dreams come back and we go, oh, yeah, it's this situation again. What is that? What do I,

what do I think about that? How do I make sense of it? That's my theory. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I can totally see that. And, you know, what's interesting is in my case, it's often recurring locations in those dreams. And I could exactly describe the place. Exactly. I haven't had this dream now that I wanted to bring to this show today in a long time now. But I can still remember the details. And it's maybe not so action loaded, but it's those details.

And why did this now, you know, why did this show up in this way that's really intriguing? Me too. Well, the recurring dreams, I would say it, they vary. What makes them recurring? What do we mean when we say recurring? And it can be a lot of different things. It can be I dream of the same place over and over again, places of the same person or type of people, the same scenario of interaction with an object or an environment. There's a lot of different, but it just, you know, broadly speaking, recurring dreams. just mean there's some similarity that carries across multiple instances of the same kind of dream. In the historical literature, it's definitely recurring dreams are considered one of the typical category or category of quote unquote typical dreams. We have some are more specific dreams of falling from a high place, dreams of flying, dreams of being late for a train or or unable to, you know, successfully pack.

for travel, those kind of things, showing up to school, unprepared for a test or naked, which are very similar to each other. So, yeah, and then recurring dreams is fascinating. And I think those are some of my favorite just because if someone is, say, actively engaged in a process of recurring dreams, talking about it with me, I've had direct feedback from folks I've done interpretations with that they said either the nature of the dream itself changed and they were able to progress beyond a certain loop. that kept happening and stopping at the same point, or the dream stopped entirely because it wasn't

necessary anymore. They figured it out. Whatever they were pondering got solved. The puzzle got solved. They were able to let go of the obsession. I just rambled a lot there. You have feedback on that. No, but you know what?

You just reminded me, actually, that I had those travel dreams a lot because I travel a lot. But I also get anxious when I have to get up really, really early for a flight. I get anxious. and I don't sleep that well usually and that's why I don't love those super early flights but sometimes it's unavoidable and I do get those dreams where I'm late at the airport you know or I have a long way to go like for example I'm visiting home family and it's not exactly next to an airport and then we have so and so much time and I know I'm not going to make it and whatnot right so there's a lot of versions of that lots of different versions and the the

packing one is also interesting that you mentioned that i've had that repeatedly in different versions as well so like you know i pack too much stuff or i have too much stuff because i've become somebody who wants to always be able to just pack up and move again and i think that might be the background to that it's not just about that one chip it's about wanting to be mobile and uh you know over the years I downsized a lot of my belongings because I used to own a bed and breakfast in Argentina. And of course, I had a lot of stuff. And then I moved to Brazil and I had a big apartment. I still had a lot of stuff, although I had sold some of it. And then I moved to New York and I always lived in furnished places. I didn't bring my whole move again with me. So it all

changed. However, that travel thing is still also a bit challenging for me always. is to really travel lightly. And I've done backpacking and all these different versions, but the packing piece is always a challenge. I always think, oh, no, this time I don't have that much. And then it always is more than one sings, you know? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, broadly speaking, again, in my dream theory,

and from my observations, what it appears to be, a dreams kind of break down into one of two categories along a certain dimension. And that is directly related to life events. If you travel a lot, you're going to have a lot of travel dreams because that is on your mind. It's a physical thing you're going through in the real world. The other half or other category is related to real life and things that,

things that you experience, but it's more on the intellectual level of considering concepts, philosophy, trying to rational level of connecting the dots of certain broader issues, more intellectual, physical versus intellectual types of dreams. And then, you know, so for me, if I could remember them, but I wouldn't have very many dreams about travel, because I don't.

I would probably be terrified about, you know, suddenly I have to go somewhere far, far away, and all the things around me are going to change. I have a lot more stuff than I'm comfortable with just because I need it, or I think I do, maybe not. And you're kind of on the other side. It's funny. You said, you know, I used to own a bed and breakfast and I, you know, that's very hard to take with you. It's very hard to pack that up and leave. You're tied down to a physical location in that sense. So, yeah, no, those packing dreams, it's very, and being late for a plane or not having something you need.

These are all very real world fears. You're going somewhere for a purpose. You need to wear clothes. You need to have food and water. You need to get to the destination. That's the reason for the travel. All of these things are, you know, self-selected goals, but points of potential failure. If I don't hit all these marks, I'm not going to succeed.

So it's very, very much anxiety is very often tied in. to our expectations and then of course anxiety is going to show up in dreams yeah absolutely yes yes yes and then also the other one that just occurred to me i wasn't even thinking of that and i think we're going to talk about a different dream or recurring one actually but one that has a recurring theme although it's not always the same that i just remembered was also to the height thing is something that does recur for me. Sometimes it's just really having to walk up a really

long stairs, right? And they have like holes in between the stairs and I have to go up very high and it makes me feel very uncomfortable or I have to jump down from somewhere because it's the only way out and it's not that

it's an emergency situation. It's just like, oh, I live now in this place where I have to jump down like, I don't know, three times the height of my body height to get out. And I have done it before, but now to do it again is scary. So isn't that interesting? It is. And there's a lot of metaphors that we could go.

This is where I go with stuff in my head. All of a sudden, I'm thinking about, you know, gaps in stairs is, what did I think of? It's a place where a misstep you will fall through. through and fail to continue the ascent. You know, so it's a pitfall. It's a, it's a, it's a, I was going to say, stumbling block was the opposite of it. It's a whole.

It's a, or it can also mean possibly, this is where my brain explodes. And I don't tell you, this is the answer. Listen to me. I know what I'm, I don't know what I'm talking about. I offer suggestions. The other possibility that just occurred to me was that there are literally missing steps.

Like you're trying to, um, think your way through a problem, a process, achieve a goal. And you get to a point. where I know there's supposed to be something here that will aid my progress, but there's a missing step in the process itself. And we met metaphoricalize. It's made that word up. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, um, kind of the pun. Our brains love puns. dreams love puns as they say. Or as I've read in books. Um, so we take something like, oh, I'm missing, I'm missing a step in the process. And immediately steps connect to stairs. And we think of stairs with a missing step. Um, So this is kind of how I do the dream interpretation process. I say, hey, let me tell you what I think I see, what that makes me think. And I throw them out there. Now you get two possibilities you can say, I pick A, I pick B, or none of those feels, right. As I say, you're going to get a zing of when you say missing step.

Yes, that's the answer. Or you say, you know, neither of those is true. But that made me think of a third thing. And I'm like, perfect. I'm happy to be wrong. Let's go with that. Yeah, great. Yeah.

I was actually also talking about the, you know, the gaps between the individual steps where you can see through and it's not necessarily even the missing one but that's where you know where you feel like oh okay it's it's sort of weird you know if there was uh if it was closed and it wouldn't feel the same way right but anyway it doesn't really matter you know it's just like these different uh these different uh possibilities that and that's perfect too this when we get to the recurring dream this is exactly what i what i want you to do is to say wait a minute i think you had the wrong idea about the visual image. It isn't that there was a missing step at all. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Fine. Throw that, throw that all out. I don't care. It's actually that there are

stairs with no vertical solidity to them. You know, that, that, yeah, exactly. So there are a different kind of stairs. There are stairs that appear to be, say, unsupported? They're just floating in the air. Or are they attached to something? They are attached to something, but there's no back wall. Let's just call it that. I don't know what that is even called. Interesting. But you can see through the individual steps, you know? When you think of that, does that seem like a more dangerous type of staircase to

climb? Yes, absolutely. That's where we're going with that. So it's a staircase that has more, it's treacherous. There's more, I see, I've seen those in, in houses where they're just the, just the unsupported step, a platform connected to the wall. And I'm like, I will snap an end. ankle, you know, falling down.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it feels extremely dangerous. Beautiful style. Kind of this, kind of this, you know, not mystical, but, but almost, you know, it's almost like they're floating, but they're attached to the wall, but there's just, you know, it's not traditional stairs. So that's where I would probably go with that.

And it takes what? We took like maybe three to five minutes to kind of throw away all the wrong answers. And I just rambled long enough to get a clearer picture. And then we kind of dialed it in on, okay, this is something about the, the, the inherent danger of the process itself. It's like the steps are there, but they're not going to be easy to climb. They're going to take maybe very, very intense concentration or there's something about the awareness of the inherent danger that makes it makes it more likely you're going to be capable of succeeding because you've recognized that it's not going to be easy. You can't be, you can't be

blasé about it. You're going to have to focus to climb these stairs. And then I stop there and I say, what do you think about that concept related to that dream image? And you say, Yes, absolutely. It's still like, you know, there's this risk there. And I'm a big risk taker. However, you know, we all sometimes are afraid of risks. We all sometimes, even if you do take risks, sometimes that takes courage to take risks. Absolutely. So also the risks we take. or different from person to person.

I might take completely different risks. I'm not a huge, like, I've done some, you know, tandem paragliding and some rappelling and some, and I learned to dive and all these different things, but they don't come as natural to me. They excite me, but they're not so much the natural thing, like the river rafting thing or whatever, as some other types of adventures. For sure. You know, I have, on the other hand, gone on the other hand, gone. night bike rides on a bicycle through downtown Johannesburg where even my local friends wouldn't

do that. So there's other types of risks that I take than many, you know, for example, I don't know, sports fanatics. I'll tell you what, you went, I definitely would not take a nighttime bike ride through Johannesburg. I live in Portland, Oregon. I wouldn't even do that here. town has become rather unsafe lately in my, in my estimation. Yeah, I hear that.

I hear that. I mean, I wouldn't never also do it on my own because you cannot get lost. But I've done it in a small group with some local guys who, like some crazy young guys who organized that. They did it repeatedly, actually, through several different areas. I also, you know, I always traveled that way. I lived in Rio de Janeiro, South Paulo. I always took the bus everywhere.

I wouldn't really take a taxi. I would take the bus, the van, the collective taxi in Yon de, Cameroon, or whatever where I didn't even have a GPS. And by the way, in the past, we didn't have that anyway, right? When we were backpacking and all we had is a lonely planet book. And all these things. These are my types of adventures, let's say. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And then so now look where we've gone with this. we just identified that there's an inherent danger to the stairs. And now we're talking about your personality, your philosophy, your approach to life. That's where, that's where these things go. So all of that being said, and then I bring us back to the dream situation and say, okay, so you are someone who understands courage means there is danger and you recognize it and you choose to confront it.

So there's something there, all of that. Everything is just your travel, your challenges, how you define risk and risks you're willing to take in furtherance of adventure and things you're, you know, that you certainly understand are absolutely too dangerous and you would draw the line. So all that said about, all this from, I was walk, there was a set of stairs and they didn't have verticals. Can we get all that from that? Everyone thinks, oh, my dream isn't very long or very interesting.

No, you have no idea. Look, look what we get out of this. But, okay, so what do we do with that information? Okay, it's fascinating. But let's, you know, concretize it in a way. Then I start talking about, okay, when did that dream? happen? What situation in your life maybe were you were you contemplating where the courage to take risks in the awareness of the risk was relevant to a specific event? And we might have to go,

now, you could, maybe you can answer that right away or maybe we have to go, did you, were you aware of a purpose for climbing the stairs? What was at the top? Why? Why stairs? Did, did you interact with the stairs in any way? And if I ask you that, did anything else happen in the dream? Did you end up climbing the stairs? So this is not the typical recurring dream, but it's a theme that has sometimes. Yeah, exactly. So the recurrent dream I want to talk about is a different one, but this is a theme also

that's been coming up. And I can just right now imagine one that I sort of vaguely remember where I would walk up the stairs, but there's actually nothing to be seen on top. So I don't know where it's going. Yeah. Well, of course, that is very telling. So I don't know where I'm going, but I know I have to go up there. Maybe, maybe. So that's, and then that's, if that feels right to you, that's definitely the answer. My alternative suggestion might be, you get to the top, you take the risk and it's not worth the risk because there's nothing there. So sometimes we, we think through our thought process, is my just basically literally that is it is is getting to a specific destination going to be worth

the risks involved in getting there and sometimes we go no it certainly isn't now see this is how i feel about travel in general i've traveled a little bit here and there you know go camping once in a while or in the past i've flown literally twice in my life once to california once to michigan and i didn't enjoy it and you know one was necessary one was unnecessary but at the end of the damn like there was nothing at the destination that made me want to go again that made me want to just travel for the sake of traveling i am definitely a homebody if i could literally never leave the confines of my of my of my little fenced-in you know backyard and and house i would be very happy camper now we're two very two different people and there's no moral judgment on that this is what

you inspires you and this inspires me but uh so so that's where i would go with that let's say if i was having that type of dream i'd be saying no wonder i'm thinking of all this effort and risk to climb these stairs, I get to the top and there's nothing there because I don't like travel because the destination is not worth the hassle. I'm not going to bother. But for you, it may be related to another specific situation. Now, very often it's real, as I said, the kind of dichotomy, real life physical situations where you're saying, I'm considering committing to a speaking engagement at a particular place. Is this going to be worthwhile to my business or or whatnot. And you're like, all this work and risk and there's nothing there.

This particular one, I'm going to decline. You wake up the next morning, you call the guy saying, you know, it's not a good fit for me. Thank you for the opportunity next, next time. Or the other side of it is you're contemplating the recurring theme, as it may be of, you know, of how you, how you approach assessing risk itself in terms of risk reward. So sometimes those are more vague and you get these recurrence. It's probably more recurring dreams that people think of because we tend to also change enough of the scenario because we're looking at the same problem from different angles. And then you get, um, which, uh, okay, so I ramble and we're already, you know, it's like 20,

25 minutes in or something like, um, did you want to talk about you, uh, your book, your business at all or who cares? And, and I'll just put the link below. We can, we can go into the dream. this is just really interesting. It's a different type of podcast than I do most of the time. I was intrigued, as I said, you know, to you before we started even. I'm an extremely curious person.

And because I have so many dreams, I immediately said yes to you. Because, you know, it's not probably the regular podcast topic that I usually do, but I thought it was totally worth my time to go into this. And people can find out about me on my website, on my social media, Regina Huber, on my YouTube channel, Regina Huber, wherever they want to go. But I think what's really intriguing here for this audience, and for me is how do these dreams fit into who I am? And I think people can also figure out a little bit of who I am through the conversation we're having. For sure, yeah. Well, that's me trying to be a duly diligent, good host and say, wait a minute, we didn't talk about you or your work or anything.

Usually I start there with people. You and I just jumped into the dream. So if that is okay with you, I'm fine with it. I'm not here to force any particular type of conversation. So per my usual process, I'm going to shut up and listen to Fred Regine is going to tell me maybe one of the most recent instances of the recurring dream. And we're going to see what we can make of it. So I'm ready when you are. Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you hearse the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams.

Every episode of his Dreamscape's program features real dreamers gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreamscape's episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dreamtops. dream experience and much, much more. To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams

over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard. wizard.com. Yes. There are several locations that recur in my dreams. Okay, I want to pick one that has probably the most detail that I remember. It is in an old building, there is an elevator that one can access from outside. So it's one of those old elevator, tiny elevator fits maximum two people and it has those bars, you know, like those old elevators have, and then the bar open and clothes and whatnot. And you step into it and it's actually you step into it from the street, but not exactly from the street. You come in and it's sort of a

little patio, but I think there's no roof on that patio, but it seems a little bit more protected. And then you open the elevator and you take it up and I cannot remember which floor. It's not very high up. It's not a hugely high building. Probably like four or five floors on top of the ground floor. And this is located and this is located and this is an interesting piece of it it's located near an ocean walk so not necessarily a walk but it's like a coastal promenade it seems to me nothing fancy just really near the near the ocean and uh it's literally the first row of buildings um next to the ocean of course it's a little bit of the little bit distance because it's not, you know, right on the beach.

But so then, from a feeling point of view, it would be in Sao Paulo, Brazil. However, Sao Paulo doesn't have that. It's not really next to the, it's not far from, from, you know, from the coast, but it's not that close. So the two don't fit together. If anything, it could be Rio de Janeiro, where I also lived in the past, I lived in both places and actually longer live Rio de Janeiro but but it seems like the feeling of the places in Sao Paulo and I don't know why now as I move up in that elevator and I go into this apartment

it's where I live so there's it's an apartment it has a relatively large room I cannot remember the kitchen particularly but there's a big living room and there's some other rooms and apparently i'm also sharing this apartment with somebody it's more like a roommate situation so we are sharing we are there and all of a sudden i uncover or discover that there's another huge living room somewhere and I hadn't even noticed it some one day I opened the door to this huge living room with some huge sofas and in armchairs all in brown leather it's a little bit old fashioned not a lot of other furniture but these huge leather sofas and on chairs and a table and I wonder in that dream why did I never see this

before there's this huge room and there's it I just didn't know about it I just discovered it and it's in my own apartment what it's going on here okay so this is the gist of it really already yeah yeah for sure so um The way I approach recurring dreams, but what the process seems to work best for me is, thank you for bringing a specific instance of the type for us to start with, because that's where I usually start. Some folks like to say, let me tell you about all the commonalities between all these different dreams.

Like, I need to do that afterwards. I got to do that backwards. So first we dial in kind of what does this dream maybe mean? And then we start looking for, okay, where do those themes seem to appear in the other dreams? So fantastic. And that goes to, what was the timestamp? I've gotten smarter and started to try to write these down so it makes it easier to edit. Okay.

Oh, my eyeball will not quit itching. I got a lash in there or something. Okay, so what do we do with that? Well, we move on to what I call, you know, part two, which is the deep dive. And we start trying to help me see it through your eyes, just like with the other dream with, wait a minute. So what do you mean by, you know, there's gaps in the stairs? I thought missing steps. And you're like, that's, no, that's completely wrong.

Fair enough. Happy to be wrong. No, no stress. So you're in an old building, no, there is an old building near the ocean. And this is fantastic. So we're looking at this scenario. You've got a, you know, coastal region. And there's maybe, you know, what we might call a boardwalk or something out in front

or at least a street or some kind of way. And then there's the, and it's the frontage row of buildings. Let me start writing this down for myself. to at the ocean frontage buildings um and then for one of the buildings there's a little bit of a protected alcove that gives you uh like a patio uh the alcove is the word that came to by my protective alcove with a patio with or without a cover maybe no cover but that that gives you access to the to the elevator um yeah it's it's straight you so it's narrow the entrance is quite narrow Yeah.

And then there's some other entrance to the left of that, which is open, but I'm not quite sure where that leads to. It seems more like, okay, maybe a space for bikes or whatever it is. Yeah. So even if we just... Oh, go ahead. No, and then there's just like, it seems like there are some plants somewhere, but I don't see exactly what that is. And daytime, daylight? Yes, it's daylight.

Mm-hmm. It doesn't feel scary. It just feels like, okay, this is an old place. It's narrow. And very well, it could have been scary or not, but either way. Yeah, daytime, nighttime, sometimes it's like to get a good idea of what's happening. Sometimes those mean things. There's often, so how do I approach things like that?

There's layers of different, say, common human experience. And one of those layers is related to how we understand light and dark. dark, darkness is very often for most people, typically kind of a scary place to be, unless sometimes you're like me and darkness is peace and quiet and solitude. And I would probably prefer to have a dream with a dark setting because then it feels, you know, with a comforting blanket of fog. Some people would say, it was foggy everywhere. I couldn't see.

It was terrifying. Like, not for me, maybe. So it's always, it's always highly personal. So broad strokes on those. A daytime or light often means illumination. We have that in our mind of like, it helps us to see. better. It's the light of understanding things in the darker hidden shadow. And then I check in with those things to see how you feel about it. And so for you, you volunteered it's daytime. It wasn't

scary. It was just daytime. Okay, a lot of dreams take place in the daytime. Might be an insignificant factor, but it wasn't, um, um, but it wasn't scary for you. So fair enough. Um, and it could have been, uh, the opposite. So you described this as a place that felt like Sao Paulo, but Sao Paulo does not have, is not a coastal city in that regard. So the other thing that it reminded you of was Rio de Janeiro, which does have a coastal element to the city itself. So that I would say is probably some kind of a significant factor. Just because that feeling came through clear enough for you to remember, there's something

about the blending of the two in that it relates specifically to the experience. you're having in the dreams. If we just linger on that for a minute, there's something about it felt like the coastal, it felt like a not coastal city that I've been to, but with the image or in the shape of the coastal city that I've also been to. So if you think of those two

and something they might have in common or experiences you've had there, just anything that comes to mind about, why those two cities and why the blending of those two cities in this specific way? Does anything come to mind? Well, there's certainly two big cities. I mean, Sao Paulo is much bigger than Rio de Janeiro, although Rio de Janeiro is already quite big.

And they're two challenging cities to live in, two very different cities. They look very different, but they have some very similar neighborhoods sometimes in terms of, okay, they have the favelas, they have the, you know, they have high crime. rates, they have, yeah, but otherwise they are pretty different actually. Like, Sao Paulo has all the great restaurants. The Rio de Janeiro has the great beaches and the beautiful, you know, the beautiful forests nearby that you can literally walk from the city into the forest and all this beautiful vegetation and nature, which you have in Sao Paulo too,

but it's just this immensely big city and it's flat and Rio de Janeiro is very hilly. It's on the beach, you know. So there's a lot of differences, but there are certainly a few common actors as well. Yeah, definitely. What am I looking for here? What am I trying to express

as the concept we're aiming at? And we may not get an answer for this right now and it may become apparent later on or we never figure it out. You don't know what these things. I don't know what's going to happen. But what is? What's a good example?

How do I conceptualize this thing? It would be as if I said, you know, it was a car, but in the shape of a cat. That's what I'm going for here with this, this comparison of these two cities because it's like, it's like Sao Paulo, but in the shape of Rio de Janeiro. Okay, why? Why put a, why put the beach portion of Rio de Janeiro? of Rio in a place that feels like Sao Paulo. So you may or may not have an answer to that. I don't know if you want me to go on a bit more about the cat car analogy.

Yeah, well, one thing that doesn't feel like Sao Paulo is really that it wasn't secured at all. Because in Sao Paulo, you know, I lived in a building that had like building security. Like everything is like fenced off and da-da-da. And in Rio too, there are, of course, also other types of accommodation, of houses, of apartments. It just felt like in Sao Paulo, it wouldn't feel as safe to just walk around and walk in and out of the building without any security, you know? So that's not really that much like Sao Paulo.

On the other hand, it just has this feeling. feeling of Sao Paulo, there's another dream actually, and I don't want to mix them up now, but we're also no, it's Sao Paulo, but I've never been to that place in South Paulo. It's about a subway station. It's a different thing. I don't know. I don't know exactly why I feel it's from Paulo. It's just really a feeling. Fair enough. Yes, yes, yes. No, that's fine. I think we've talked about it enough to let it percolate in the background as we continue and probably this this idea that we've discussed and just have to have the look at it a little bit focusing on it for a minute it's

gonna i think it'll trickle through into something else and we'll get it we'll get an answer later or we will or we won't but i think usually we can reconnect the dots um it is it um typical a lot of these buildings uh to to have an elevator or is that untypical yes absolutely but not such an old one if it were so powerful because there's not that many, you know, well, it depends on where, but that type of more colonial style, there's not that much of that left, unfortunately, because... Gotcha. So we've got this experience, and the dream basically starts with you in the alcove or walking

into the alcove and accessing the elevator. There isn't a, that you can recall. a visual or experiential representation of walking the beach to get to the alcove, it just starts there. Yeah, it starts there. Okay. Fair enough. Just checking because it might mean something else that you had to approach this place.

But in your mind, you're like, okay, I'm here. This is what I'm seeing now. Fair enough. The dreams always start somewhere as far as what we can remember. And even if we remember, you know, there was probably some other parts before that, but I'm not sure it was connected. That's what most people say. It's like they tend to be kind of self-contained.

Right. so the access point has here's another blending of it's it's you know uh it's an elevator but they're not usually that old it's uh it's salpalo but it feels like real real but it feels like salpalo so there's a mixture of these interesting kind of conflicting impressions or or combined impressions of different things um the thought that came to my mind with the the concept of like you know you're showing yourself specifically an older elevator. Why not a more typical elevator? Why not, why not the image from real life, which would be this is your standard, maybe even 20 or 30 or 40 years old, but not 100 years old.

These are the old timey, you know, 1930s elevator type and it's very small and cramped. So you're showing yourself that the access to this build, the way you're going to get to where you live is this older, maybe more dangerous, maybe more rickety, maybe, I don't know if it's going to You know, so I'm going to stop there. I'm putting a lot of words in your head. What do you think when you think of the old-time elevators? How do they feel to you? It's actually charming.

It's actually charming. You know, we have many places still in Europe. It's just like in South Paulo. I mean, as far as I was concerned, I did not usually see them that much, right? They're not that typical. And when I say colonial, it's just like, there it would be like probably that old, that colonial style. I don't know what else to call it right now. But it was, yeah, it was just a bit surprising.

And the rest of that ocean front didn't look as old. So the rest of it, it's a long ocean front. and it's mostly buildings from maybe, I don't know which year, but not super like hypermodern, but more modern buildings. Actually not such nice buildings, you know, that don't have much character. Okay.

So was the building you were entering different than the others or of the similar type? Yeah, it was different. Okay. But it does have more character. I mean, inside, it is a little old-fashioned in terms of not necessarily, wouldn't necessarily be my style, but it was an interesting combination, yes. So the old, I like the old architecture, but then it was furnished, but not by me. Gotcha. And there were also, oh, I just remembered another detail. There was. There were also open suitcases somewhere, all with clothes. I actually just remember that. Yeah, yeah.

I put that here. All right. So this is very interesting, too. Again, I'm getting a better picture, and you're also seeing it again in your mind as you're telling me. So you've got a long ocean front full of buildings. And most of them are a, you know, not ultra modern like they were built today. but more recent. But the one building you're going into,

the building itself is of an old fashioned style that has more character. And not only that, but the elevator you're using to access it is also of an older type. And you refer to it as charming. So for me, I'm going to look at those things and my associations, counterfactual is not what's in your head. But I'm thinking it's a little bit.

dingier, dirtier. Maybe the elevator's a little more dangerous. Like older things to me feel, feel like they're going to maybe be falling apart. Now, I'm not someone who's always seeking ultra novelty or ultra modern in terms of like, it has to be built yesterday or it's not up to my standard. But there's definitely in my mind, in my experience, a feel of older things being a little more falling apart and dangerous. But for you, I'm glad you, you clarified that for me because we're going in a completely different direction with it. There's this, um, there's, there's, There's more positive emotions associated with things that are older. They have more,

the old-fashioned things have more character. The elevator for being what it is is still functional and feels charming. So these are all positive associated. You're heading somewhere you want to be. It's not a place you're afraid of. It's not a place you're dreading experience. You're not anticipating trouble or negative experiences of any kind. This is all fantastic stuff to clarify.

And that's why I ask all the questions. And I'm happy to be wrong. out of all these and it's interesting too that you've got um ocean and you tell me if this is this is this is true that the feeling associated for me or the the concept i'm pulling out of my brain is uh something about being on the ocean which is visibility to the horizon it's nothing but endless potential i don't know if that resonates with you being standing on the coast of an ocean appreciating that view what if that's not it what what comes of mind when you think of that concept.

Yes, I definitely also appreciate the ocean because I've lived literally not like this and first row, but very close to the ocean several times in my life for several years, right? Whether in Miami Beach more recently or in New York, you still can, you know, it's not like you go there all the time, but it's still, you know, it is. there when you live in New York City. And then, of course, in Rio de Janeiro, I live just a few blocks from the ocean. You know, it's just really close. So what is it about the ocean view that you appreciate?

What's connected to that? Well, I think, first of all, I'm a Pisces, right? Me too. Hello, fellow fish. Yeah, exactly. So I need the water. way. Now, now I'm in a city where there are two rivers, but I

still miss the ocean. I'm more of a mountain river ocean, a mountain river lake kind of guy, the ocean. Okay, I grew up in an area that has a lot of lakes and rivers and mountains, so the mountains were like, you know, half hour by car away, so that

that's really nice. Oh yeah. But very, so yeah, and I love that too. It's pretty, it's beautiful. I do think sometimes like, you know, When it's a warm enough climate and I can really jump into the water, into the ocean at night that has a very healing. Or in the early morning that has a very healing effect on me. Okay.

So where was going to? The ocean is also richness, by the way. Say again? Richness. It's abundance. Okay. It's the unseen and unseeing. and unknown, but you know it's there.

They cannot see what's under the water necessarily, unless you dive, of course, or you snorkel, but you know it's there, and that's very, very mystical to me and very mysterious at the same time. So when you look at the ocean water from the beach, for example, or even from a certain height,

in Rio de Janeiro, we had this arpoador where it's a big rock and you can walk up, and sit up there and watch the sunset or whatever. So that is so fascinating because you look at the water and you don't see what's in there, but you know that they're fish, there's all this water life, underwater life. And there's all these riches and these, you know, all the others under these corals and whatnot. So it's really, really fascinating to think that it's all there, but you cannot see it. Very cool.

Yeah, and then so, again, this is why dreams are extremely personal. One size does not fit all ocean. You look up ocean in a dream book. It's not going to mean the same thing. So for me, you're describing all these things. And you said the fact that I can't see what's under the water makes it all very mysterious. You have positive emotions. For me, it's why I like rivers and lakes.

If I can't see the bottom, I don't go in there because she's going to bite my feet off. I can't. I can't go into water. I can't see the bottom of, you know, that kind of a thing. Very different. So for me, ocean, very negative in terms of like being out there and you. that's that's okay that's why I went to this direction of potential and I think you you highlighted the words that are much better descriptors for me richness abundance the the the the and the one the reason I latched on to the idea of potential is the unseen the unknown there's discovery to be had there is this this so I think there's something and I think that relates also to the idea that that there's this long row of buildings but you've chosen the one that suits you best that

that speaks to the things you find to be positive qualities. You could have very well, I love to explore the counterfactuals on these things. You could have very well picked a building saying, you know, there was one next door that was more charming to me. And I would have preferred to live there, but I was living in an ultra modern building

that was just, it didn't have any character, it didn't have any charm to it. And that would be a different kind of dream experience. So you are placing yourself on the edge of this limitless potential, this place of discovery and adventure, and you're at home

in a building that matches the characteristics that you find appealing to you. So you've put yourself in a very comfortable position in terms of right on the edge of two things. You very much enjoy a comfortable space to be in and right on the edge of the unknown and the exploration. Are we doing so good so far with describing? Yeah, it's good, except for the interior, which is not really my taste, but it's big. It's nice and it's so spacious. No, that's good. That's the next step.

Uncover this new space. And that might be the issue. So moving on to that, that element is exactly where we're going right now. So it's, I think it's very interesting that you have, you've, you enter a space that is your space. This was the destination all along. I'm going to my apartment. And it is not my take. taste, as you say. It's not, the interior there is dissatisfying in some way. But then as a

as a course of the dream, one of the things that happens later or follows from that, say, dissatisfaction, you discover a completely new interior space and everyone who was there. So there's even discovering inside, like a kind of, you know, if you're, if you're, um, come to stop there for a moment, kind of kind of conceptualize a little bit, not always, but very often again, based, baseline human collective unconscious style. style of things. A lot of times buildings are a representation of our own internal space. Not always, this one feels like we're heading in that direction. So if you, you physically place yourself, which is like, at least the concept of physically placing yourself on this edge

of comfort in the unknown, the best of both worlds, but then you conceptualize your internal space and you say, but I wasn't really happy with how some of this was configured. So you, show yourself the experience of finding another internal space that is more to your liking that has, wait a minute, this is the leather couch interior that feels more like home to me. Yeah, the leather couch thing wasn't really my taste. But it was a bit old-fashioned. However, the room felt very spacious and very large. luxurious in that sense because there's all this extra space.

Okay. So the original apartment was not as big. It was the extra room that was bigger than the apartment? Yeah, exactly. That was the biggest room. It wasn't small. It was not tiny at all, but this room was just really extra big. Okay.

Interesting. So we've got something going on there. Let me, before I jump to that level, I think I'm skipping some steps here. Do you remember having an experience of getting on? off the elevator and walking down a corridor to get to your front door. No, it was as if I walked directly into the apartment from the elevator. That reminds me of some movies that are like that, where if you go to the, what is it, the penthouse that you can only get to if you have the key, and then it just opens.

There's no hallway. There's no one else up there. It is one door that lets you into, I live here. So there's maybe very much something of that going on. Did you have an idea of what floor was on? probably second or third and that's interesting because you said and you didn't have a sense that it was the top

it wasn't the very top floor it was more like sort of in the middle I think it might have been third yeah that's interesting too I don't know what to make of that and of course I never do but there is something about you know it wasn't on the ground floor and it wasn't on the top floor it was a middle floor I don't know if that says anything to you specifically

I mean why do you think maybe you wouldn't have chosen to show yourself living on the top floor of a building what is the top floor of a building or the bottom floor mean to you are those places you wouldn't normally care to live like one's too high one's too low yeah this is actually now live on the ground floor but I I've lived on you know on the 15th floor as well I it all has advantages and disadvantages.

I love the views of the higher floors, but I also feel a bit more disconnected and a little bit more cut off from actually the surroundings and from the place, like more from the neighborhood or from the street life. Now, I grew up in a tiny little village, okay, so everything was ground or or, or, or. or brown floor or the floor above that, except for the attic, right? But, and then I moved to Munich, and then I lived on, you know, usually also like the second floor or maybe the third, and that was about it.

Now, once I actually lived a little bit higher up, no more modern building, but, yeah, and then I moved to those mega-cities, and you know I usually like being higher up for example I wouldn't have wanted to live in on the ground floor in a city like Sao Paulo because you have to live behind bars right and that's not so nice so then yeah so in Sao Paulo we live pretty high up I was sharing an apartment back then it was a it was a it was going to be a temporary situation i was there for like five and a half months or

five months and then i moved somewhere else in brazil to travel a bit before i went back to europe at the time but it was supposed to be temporary so we were supposed to be sharing several people of us this apartment there was a little bit of a particular situation it was really nice it had an outdoors patio up there as was pretty high up it was like it was a little bit like a a penthouse, you know, and it had actually two floors. So that was different. So if I could choose, I would probably like to choose that a nice top floor. If it has, you know, the outdoor space and all of that, that would be really nice. Otherwise, I wouldn't care so much for the top floor. sure. Isn't that great?

All of these thoughts. Yes, and then also, of course, sometimes the elevators don't work. Sure. And then you got to walk all the way out. They don't. Yeah, they don't have enough when one doesn't work. So that's happened too. For sure. And so when you started describing this, I wrote something down and we're going to come back around to it. But it's just, it's always fascinating to me. I just, I just ask these questions. And then bam, like a two or three minute description.

All these thoughts. come tumbling out. Now that you mention it, let me tell you all these things. And I think some of the key things you said during that were the concept of a lot of places high enough for a good view, but not so high that I feel disconnected from what's going on down below. And then you also mentioned practical concerns of if you go up too high and the elevator doesn't work, man, you got, what, 15 flights to schlep your groceries. Oh boy. Yeah, 15th floor. walk up. No, thank you. I'm not doing that. Yeah. I really never leave my house. So then, okay, so this is what I wrote down as soon as you started describing it. And it pinged,

it pinged for me across three different elements of this dream is, um, the best of both worlds. The blending of not opposites, but distinct features of two. So we've got that idea with it, you're blending Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. You're blending, uh, the, the, um, modernity of a beachfront with the charm of a more unique building that that suits you. You're not, you're blending the view, high enough to have a good view, not so high you're disconnected from what's going on down below. So kind of the best of both worlds, when I throw that out there in these blending of different things, does anything come to mind?

Yeah, that is actually a very, very, very, very intriguing because I think that's definitely something that I often have been trying to do in my life. You know, I like to mix old and new. I like to, I personally like old buildings better because of their character, their style. But sometimes the new is more practical, of course, so I want both. And then also in terms of furniture, sometimes like the more modern better, but I mix it up with old elements, like, you know, maybe an antique something. mirror or whatever it is.

And that's, so mixing it together, I like that. Also, you know, if you could, of course, choose the best of every place, because a lot of times people ask me, what's the best place or where do you like it most that you have lived in your life so far? And I said, well, I don't know. Can I have a piece of each of them? For sure. You know.

I have a really hard time without people go, oh, what's your favorite movie or TV show? I have no idea. Number one, my memory is terrible, which I think is probably why I can't remember my dreams. I've just got memory issues to begin with.

A movie, maybe I like Stranger Than Paradise. It's probably one of the few movies that I've ever watched repeatedly. Well, I get that same problem where it's like, I can't rank things like that very well because there's always, well,

this movie was better in this regard, and this movie was better. Yeah, or down by law. Which one's better? I don't know what you mean by better. Better cinematography, better acting, better script, you know, better performance. I like weird movies, like, you know, Jim John was movies, down by law, stranger than paradise. Especially his early movies, like the black and white, you know, not the later he did color movies, but I like the earlier ones much better.

They were so cool. Sure. Yeah. And then sometimes, you know, it'd say, man, I wish this actor had done this role in a different movie and then bam best of both worlds but all it also reminded me too of sometimes best of both worlds means it's it's the ideal idealization we go to when we think of taking the good with the bad sometimes it's like well this isn't and i think of that that's comes up in the dream with like the the larger room with the furniture you didn't really care for sometimes things

aren't perfect what amazing space i wish the couch was different but i'll take it you know or i'm in a place i got to share it with roommates uh it's beautiful house, I wish I had the space to myself, not practical, not possible. We get these wishful thinking. I mean, it's, it is what it is. I wish I didn't have to share a space. Nothing wrong with that. Another wrong with the people you shared it with. Probably very nice people, but you like, you know, you, you, me, anyone might like a space to ourselves. Um, so, so thinking back on, um, um, you mentioned, you know, okay, so the doors just kind of open up and there's the space. And you mentioned, um, uh, luggage with clothing. And how would you describe that, that, that,

scene. Like where, where did you place it in the environment? What state of, you know, they were in a pile. It was a mess. They were neatly arranged. There was clothes falling out of it. How would you, you know, describe that? There were big suitcases, rather old-fashioned suitcases, actually. And then they were full with clothes. So filled to the rim with clothes. They were open. And I was trying to figure out, it felt as if it felt as if they were mine and I had rediscovered them. Hmm. So when you

came in the act of observing them triggered the thought oh wow, those are mine, but it feels like I'm rediscovering them. Like I forgot they were there. Yeah. Absolutely. And you said they were filled at the brim where they neatly folded or kind of jammed in there?

No, not necessarily, but also not a huge mess. Okay. Again, we got a happy medium here. Tolerable mess. Yeah, exactly. Not a hot mess, but also not like super orderly. Did you feel any kind of way about needing to do something with it, like address it in some way? I felt curiosity to, oh my gosh.

there's all this stuff like i haven't seen this in a while what's in there and that's happened to me so often because i've moved so often okay so i even forget about you know what do i have yeah yeah i've got okay so this is a tangent but i think it's i think it's interesting i have what i call a rule of thirds every time i move uh one third i throw away one third i give away and one third i take with me because you open some boxes and you're like if i haven't seen this in 10 years do i really need it why am i carrying this with me. Yeah. You get that too. I know, but what the last time happened to me is that it was in storage. So, you know, it can't really go through it. But it was also not like a huge amount of stuff. It's just like, okay, I cannot do that right now. And then you have to do it as an

destination, which is less fun. That's true. Yeah. Why, why schlep a whole, a bunch of extra boxes that you get there and you're like, I should have gotten rid of this? Why do I go through the effort of carrying it with me? And that's probably an experience you have when you travel a lot, too, of like you you get a really good sense of what is necessary and useful, what you're actually going to need, that say someone with less experience doesn't have, because let's say you're going to fly on a plane to another state or in a country for the first time ever,

and you're like, I'm going to take everything, everything I think I need. And then like half of it you realize I never used any of that. Why did I go through the effort to bring that with me? I don't know if that inspires any thoughts, that range. Yes. And, you know,

I still get those moments when I think, oh, I should have just brought me. more of this and not so much of that. Or I never really worn this, but I wanted to bring it because I wanted to wear it, but then it wasn't so practical, so I wore more the practical stuff. And, you know, you bring your nice sandals, but you'll never ever wear them because they are maybe not the right streets to walk on or they're not the right events to wear them to

or whatever, but you wanted to bring them. And then you wear those like old sneakers all the time. Yeah, those are the most practical for sure. Yeah, there's just kind of a lot. There's kind of a refining of utility that you, that happens over that process of gaining experience with you. Here's how to travel most effectively. There's this kind of an effective investment calculation going on in that scenario.

Right. So you've entered this space in the first thing. Okay. Recap so far. So on the coast, row of buildings, charming, older. you go up, not to the top, not on the bottom, a mid, mid-level floor. You open, open the doors.

And the first thing about this space is the luggage. So there's an assessment of the utility of your scenario. So one thing I'm going to ask about the luggage is, did it look like the pile was too big? Like, wow, I brought a lot of stuff. Or did it feel like no? And it was actually in the other room, though. It was not in the first room.

Okay. It was in the other room. The newly discovered room. Oh, can be. The room is in. So I'm, somebody must have put it in there. If it wasn't me, then somebody else must have put it in there. And, uh, yes, because when I walked into that room, that's when I rediscovered those, those

suitcases. And I didn't see them immediately. I just saw, I, first of all, I saw this, this furniture, this setting, you know, like these couches with the leather couches and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and armchairs which took a lot of the space up but it was all very like it was old but it was very clean there was there were no like ornaments nothing no no pillows no nothing and um it was a it was a bit sober looking but um yeah it was just like this big extra room so it was sort of exciting And then on the left side, later, I discovered those suitcases.

Gotcha. So, actually, so sequence of events, and this is why I asked you, and the recaps are great. So the first thing you noticed or the first room you were in was the shared space with a roommate. And when did it occur to you that I have a roommate? Did you see them there? You just knew it by entering the space. Somebody. I don't even know who.

I have no idea right now. I don't remember that. that seemed to be a minor, you know, of minor importance, who it was. It was more like the, oh, I'm sharing, okay, and I questioned myself and said, why am I sharing? And then at some point I discovered this room, and then I just remembered another detail. There was another door on the other side of that room that actually led somewhere else, but that's, I think I never went in there. Okay. So we actually have a progression from, say, an external space to an internal space to a hidden space with even more beyond that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just remembered that. There's another door. And then I was thinking, but now I have all this space. What am I going to do with all this space now? It was like, no, I'm sharing with somebody. Ah, that's so cool. And then I was like all this space, all this extra space. Why am I having so much space now? Yeah. So actually the size of the new room appeared to present a new problem in that regard? No, but I was thinking, you know, how am I going to, it seemed like luxurious to have all this space now.

And on the other hand, I said, okay, now I have. now I have like, there's another door. Where's that going to be? So do I need enough? Okay. So it almost seemed, there was something of, you said luxurious.

So in a sense, like excessive? Like it was more than you, more than you actually needed. Yeah. So first it seemed like a nice, big space. Not exactly my taste in terms of furniture,

but it's still, it seemed a luxury because I like, I like spacious places, right? So then, but then there was this other door and then I was thinking, okay, another, another room, okay, that maybe that's too much, whatever, you know. And it's funny because actually in Brazil and in Rio, de Janeiro where I lived, I had a really big apartment. It was actually too big for one person, but I was always hoping that more people would visit. And in the end, I, I, you know, friends were coming. But, yeah, I could have, you know, if I had gotten rid of a few things and not moved so many things from Argentina, I would have, I didn't really need all this.

It was a lot of space. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a very, there's a very, the thing that pops into my head is like, there's a lot. there is such a thing as too big like this room. I'm in right here. It's like my garage outback. It's my studio.

I got a bed here because it's convenient. I literally wake up in the morning right there and I walk over here and I do my things. So there's a this space is big enough for me. A smaller space would feel cramped. A larger space would probably feel like a cavern. Like it would feel empty. It would feel like the space itself is pressing on me but being so empty. I can imagine being in the great hall of a castle, you know, where it's royal audience chamber or something.

And it's like 50 feet wide by a football field long and there's a throne. I'm like, that would not be a comfortable space for me. I couldn't live there. I put my bed and my chair in the middle of the floor and now there's nothing but emptiness around me. So there's an ideal quantity of space and an ideal size to an environment that makes us feel most comfortable. Thinking along those lines, does anything come to mind? I mean, I really enjoyed, for example, when I lived in Rio, I really enjoyed the big living room because I had a really big sofa from back in the days and, and I had traveled with me. And I wanted to dance, and I did a lot of computer dancing.

So I had, you know, people over to dance. And I had a huge, huge dining table, which I also brought from the bed and breakfast, because I love that. It was an old antique dining table. It was a light type, not those heavy antique. I don't like those heavy antiques. things. It was a rustic bottle, but not a heavy type. And I love the standing team because I loved having guests over. So, and to cook. And then I lost that a lot in New York because there was smaller spaces. So then the thing is, and I love my big bedroom. I also had a king size

Bali made you know Bali bed bamboo bed from Bali and whatnot and I love this and I love the big bathroom

all of that you know but the other two rooms actually if I it hadn't been for visitors

I didn't really it was only to have stuff in them in a way and that's probably

what I'm seeing here. You know, that is sort of the same concept. So I like big rooms where I live right now or where I'm here right now. It's on the small side for me. But now I have a garden, right? So that is sort of the balance, which is the first time in my life after I ever moved out from home that I have a garden. So it's, you know, it's something different. So I'm balancing it.

But if it weren't for the garden, I would not want to live in a space. I would want a bigger space, let's say. For sure. Yeah. Again, we're getting that theme of kind of blending the best of both worlds or finding the proper balance. Absolutely. So a couple of themes that came to my mind are conceptual layers of analysis is that our

needs for different kinds of space changes over time. And it's very often related to, say, our lifestyle. Like if you're someone who constantly entertains and has a large friend group, you need a big space. And but that can also change over time. Like, okay, now I'm in a different phase of life. I have fewer friends. My desire to entertain and be surrounded by a large group of people has decreased. The space I need to fill the ideal amount of space is smaller.

And now you're in a place where you're again, blending kind of, you know, taking the good with the bad, but trying to get the best of both worlds. You've got a space that may have a little too small, but it's made up for by the garden. The garden outside is very beautiful to you. And that, that, the sense of enjoying the garden makes up for the fact that, you know, I could use a couple extra feet on the walls. But the other thing that came to mind too was that exactly as you said, I think it's very relevant is that sometimes if a space is too big, it just gets filled with stuff. And that's, there can be a, there can be in, in our mind sometimes a need to justify, having a certain space by filling it with something.

And I think that's part of my problems. Like again, with the concept of I was living in the reception hall of a castle, I don't have enough stuff to fill that. I'm not a king. And I would never want to be a king. And I don't need to have that. And I would never want that many people in my presence,

let alone in my house. So I would never want to big. That space would be way too big for me. And I would feel that pressure of emptiness to fill it. I would say, no, no, pass, pass. I'm going to, I'm going to live somewhere else. So you've got that going on, too, in these, in these, so you've got this extra room, which is, it's also combining your passion for adventure and discovery of, I found a hidden secret. It's a whole new room.

It's beautifully large. The furniture isn't great. It takes good with the bed. But wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's another door. Hold on. I wasn't ready for that. I don't even have enough stuff to fill this space.

And that may be, it's interesting. that you found your luggage there in this first secondary bonus room. And you look like you're having some thoughts. And I want to, maybe I'll stop there and let you tell me what's going on. No, absolutely. I mean, it's also about maybe new possibilities, right? And not everything is perfect. And as you said earlier, in those new possibilities right from the start.

So one thing that I have a hard time is settling or something. and every time I've settled for something, it's not been the right decision. And I feel like just recently I've settled with a few things, and one is a minor thing, for example. Like there was this, I had chosen, I had selected a really nice couch for this place. So I haven't bought a lot of furniture, but I wanted a couch, right? I didn't have one before moving. So, so, and then the, the company where I bought it from, the shop, the entire company went bankrupt. So I didn't get that one.

And then I had to find a new one. And I was already waiting for months for this thing, right? And I didn't have anything to sit on. But so I was like waiting and waiting. And then I said, okay, I'm just going to buy something, you know, I don't want to spend a fortune now that I already, you know, this happened. but I want to steal something nice that I like. However, I did like the other one better. I sort of settled a bit.

And, you know, it's not bad, but it's not the dream piece. You know what I mean? Sure. And because I don't buy a piece like that every day, I wanted it to be the right piece, and the other one was the right piece, and now I couldn't find it anymore. And it would feel like I settled. but and this is not something of major importance you know there's many more important things in life

however uh i i just yeah i know that the times in my life when i've settled it's usually not been the best decision got now we are talking about combining you know the best of two places and that's always what I ideally would like to do because I've moved so much of course, you know, I love the beauty of Rio de Janeiro. I mean, this is a city,

it's hard to imagine how beautiful it is. It has its very ugly parts, you know, like most cities do, but it has also in terms of the nature in a city, it's the most beautiful I've seen so far.

in a combination of nature in the city, right? All those different views, all those different, because it has those hills and whatnot and the beach and whatnot, and you can paraglide from a nearby hill if you want down onto the beach. So it has a favorite vegetation, you know, types of nature, but tropical vegetation is just, so tremendously rich in its

and what it looks like, right? So, and so diverse in what, and in its expression that I really, really love it. So, yeah, so that's Rio de Janeiro. On the other hand, it was a very challenging place for me to live because of fraudulent business partner and whatnot and all this stuff.

I love the dancing there. And then there's, you know, other cities like Argentina, Munich, Madrid that I've lived in, and every single one of them is magnificent in its own way. New York City, you know, and I also lived in San Francisco at some point. I've spent considerable time in Johannesburg and several different visits, but for months sometimes. And then some other African cities too. So here's the thing. There's so many beautiful things, and I want them all.

Yeah. For sure. Can I please create my own city? Yeah, that's what it sounds like. We absolutely spot on with that. Yeah, definitely. It feels like that's a very important theme. We've viscerally hit on something that informs or connects with multiple.

It's probably very connected to the sequence of recurring dreams overall. but I just wanted to briefly highlight on, I wrote down a couple of things as you were talking. It's interesting that in the bonus room, the newly discovered room, you found luggage that is un, it is, it is un, what is it is it is not unpacked. You have not settled in.

We think of settling as relaxing our standards and saying, look, this is the best I can get. But there's also the ideal of settling. in by unpacking luggage. You put it away in a closet. You put it away in dressers. This is a pile of luggage. You're living out of the luggage.

It's more of a feeling of impermanence. I'm here temporarily. I don't even unpack because I'm probably going to be moving on again. And there's actually another door to this room so that there's the luggage in the room and it's not unpacked. And there's another room. You're like, wait a minute. Am I even get it?

What do I find if I go through that door? Am I going to have to take my luggage in there because now I'm in a new space? So there's that element. to it and I, uh, two, two things and, you know, judgment free of course, but, um, um, the idea of wanderlust and FOMO fear of missing out, uh, those two concepts came to mind of like, and I think that, uh, it's in some ways is drives the adventurous spirit. I need, I need to see what's on the other side of the next till. I need to know if the grass is greener on the other side.

Now, sometimes that's used in a negative sense of like, like, if you hop the fence, you can never hop back. That's kind of the story of like, you think it's better because it's what you don't have. So there's that. But sometimes you go and check it out because of what you don't have. And it's not hurting anything. You're not locked out of jumping.

Oh, look, yeah, I thought the grass is greener. Maybe it's not. Or hey, it was. Everyone should follow me. So there's a neutral assessment more than anything. Like a lot of people go, oh, you just have fear of missing out. Oh, you just can't make a decision. There's a lot of negative ways people look at these things.

But it's the driven adventurous spirits that, look beyond the next hill to find out what's there. So I'm going to stop there and let you give your feedback on those ideas so far. Yeah. So I've several times in my life, I said, and I'm not saying it anymore, because I said several times in my life, this is where I'm going to stay for the rest of my life. The first one, I think, was Buenos Aires, because I really, you know, I bought a house. I had it built out for the bed and breakfast. This is a major time and effort and put all my savings into it.

Then it was too sedentary in a way. It was too much, I have to be home so much, because it wasn't big enough to have a big team, right? So every time I was in the other part of the city or in a far-up part of the city, something happened. Once there was this huge hail that broke windows, it was a huge night of hail in Buenos Aires with those tennis ball big ale pieces. we had that in germany many years ago too but anyway so so that happened and i was in a complete in a remote part of of the city that day doing a jambi class you know my percussion lesson with my senegalese jambi teacher and in san telmo and and my place was in palermo hollywood you know on the other side of the city i mean it's not exactly that but it most it feels like that so that um

was sort of too, it felt too tight to the house. And then, and then I, I discovered that, okay, I don't want to do so much tango dancing anymore. I want to do somebody in a theater dancing. I was traveling to Rio de Janeiro sometimes to do that. And, and I really started loving Rio de Janeiro. So I said, okay, you know, I was about to sell the place anyway at that time. So I did that. And, but in the beginning,

I thought I was going to stay there, like literally forever. And then the same thing happened in Rio de Janeiro, but because of this very challenging experience. And again, I bought a house. I had it built out. It took even longer because it was more challenging. It was not where I lived. It was a brick and mortar business.

So I did all this, and then this thing happened, and it made it really difficult. And then I made a very tough decision after three and a half years to say goodbye and to move to New York City. But then it was again exciting to me. So it wasn't the easiest time of my life, but it was also, I find that every time I move to a new place, there's really this new excitement and this discovery that, and see the discovery. right it is a theme that thing that keeps coming back up well that's what i was going to do is say okay we talked about this dream at like we've identified a lot of different ways you feel about it and words you associate with it now if we zoom out and go okay the sequence of recurring dreams

what would you say is the commonality what it what what is the recurring element that makes them a sequence of recurring dreams so um there's another recurring dream which is as a complete different location. It's in the woods, in the forest. There's like, it's not completely in the dark forest, but you walk through the forest, you get to the place. It's, it's a little, it's a small house. Somebody else lives in it on the ground floor, and I live on the, on the upper floor, and it's more like a hut or a small house, right? And you, that's another recurring location completely different. And it reminds me a little bit of where I lived in the mission in San Francisco, because there

was this lady living with her daughter on the ground floor. But apart from that, I mean, in San Francisco, I was living in the city, you know. So there's those locations, and there's this other place in Sao Paulo. This is a commonality, but it's a subway station, and it's actually a little bit more scary and eerie feeling. It's I come out of the subway, I have to go somewhere and to a destination

and I'm going there for the first time. I come out of the subway and I need to move through lots of people on the sides. They're all very strange and like looking like this, right? And they could drug addicts and very sinister atmosphere. Spooky.

and i have to go through them and walk through them to get to my destination and i know that's not the worst part i have to walk in again and it's a really long stairs up and then it's another you know another piece of when you're already walking outside so i'm i'm not quite sure what what's gonna expect me and what happens like now i'm out but now i have to go back in you know so that's another recurring one of the scary ones I haven't had it in a long time but I remember it clearly but mostly it's about those locations and what's been also recurring lately is family situations with several family members like my siblings my mom know my dad at times he passed on a long time ago so he doesn't

appears so much in those dreams, but sometimes he does. And, and I'm home, and my mom, it has to do usually something with in the kitchen and cooking, but it's a different kitchen. And then stuff happens. And all the rest of this stuff seems like very random, right? So there's actually a number of different recurring dreams, different recurring themes. But I think you'd mentioned way back in the beginning, when we started talking was that actually this type of dream about specific location. and how you interact with those locations.

That had actually stopped a little while ago. You haven't had one in a while? Yeah, except for that one, the first one that we discussed. That one, yes, was more, happened more recently, but the house in the woods hasn't happened so recently. Gotcha. I just didn't remember it, though, very clearly. Yeah, yeah.

Well, the one we were talking about primarily, you know, the, on the ocean. When did that happen? How about how long ago would you say? I mean, recently. See, I think it happened the last time just a few months ago. Okay. But I know

this is not a new dream. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. Do you notice any pattern in terms of these type of dreams recurring when you are contemplating a move or in the middle of a move or have just arrived at a new location around that time period? I wouldn't be able to tell you I would be able to tap me.

It could be hard to pin them down. I don't know when I had a particular dream, right? Right? It wouldn't surprise me if it did. And sometimes it may not just because you, you may contemplate the desire to wander, to adventure to seek. And then choose not to do so.

And that might cause a dream to come back. Or these type of dreams can precede an actual move because you are now contemplating the fact that a move is happening. what should I anticipate? A lot of dreams are just thinking our way through problems that we're going to encounter or as I was saying earlier concepts that we haven't sufficiently resolved. So it may be, let me see, the theory I would have about why the dream might have disappeared largely in the last few months is that you're at least for the time being,

you're kind of settled where you're at. Not that maybe you have settled and that's partly on your mind. but you've become you're in you're in those one of those periods of time that is between moves where you're like I'm comfortable here for now this is what I'm doing you're not experiencing a strong desire to make a change I wouldn't be surprised if uh you will have another kind of location type of dream where you're where you're finding hidden places you're you're assessing the quality of the of the comfort and amenities of a particular location like I was in the woods. I like the woods, but it was a very small place. Maybe I was living up,

again, upstairs, not on the ground floor, not too high, but right for the shack, but it was a shack. It was too small for me. Beautiful location, not the right building. Maybe I keep pondering what's a better blending. What am I looking for? What is, and probably the next dream of this kind that you will have. Some elements will pop up and watch for those blending of opposites as well, where you'll go, okay, what am I finding insufficient in my current environment? What am I looking to change? What is the new ideal I might test out, at least theoretically in my mind, to say, would I be happier, more content? Would this fit better to be in this kind of an environment? And I'll stop there for a moment.

Go ahead. So what I say, I don't want to settle. That's what I was relating to was more in terms of not settle for less than what I want. Yes. Okay. So like, that's why I gave you the couch example. and so for example right I didn't always live in the most expensive neighborhoods that's not what I wanted either but I always lived in the neighborhoods that I wanted to live and I feel like this time I've settled

a little bit in that in that you know in that sense but on the other hand I got something in exchange for it like the garden right now but but for example right in in like in rio de genera lived in flamingo okay and uh in san francisco i lived in the mission i wouldn't have one to live wanted to live in the more expensive whole part of the city right the mission was where i really felt where i chose to live where i wanted to be um And the same in New York City, I lived in Harlem for the most part. That's where I wanted to be. I didn't live in Queens, which would have been cheaper.

I didn't live in more expensive because it wasn't about the money. It was about I want to be in that place, right? And of course, there are limits to what you might want to spend, right? But I'm just saying. So in that sense, I don't like really to settle. And that's exactly what you're constantly saying is, I want to, the best pieces of each. No, for sure, for sure. And there's, and it's good to clarify that, too, because there's, there's, um, connotative

and denotative meanings of these things and like, um, settling. Yeah, yeah, the idea of settling. So you, I feel settled. Or I feel unsettled. We would say even emotionally. Yeah. I feel disturbed, you know, but the idea of there's, um, and there's, again, this is a blending of opposites.

And it's, it's, um, let's say safety versus excessive. excitement is one layer of analysis. We can look at things. And like, I don't think I'll ever go paragliding or, or mountain climbing, as you may have done, not worth the risk for me. I do not feel like the excitement, the emotional or experiential reward would be sufficient for me to take that risk. For you, very different.

I also don't think I would live maybe in Harlem or in the Mission District in San Francisco. And just like I don't go to downtown Portland, there's people, you know, in regular. Oh, Harlem is not like that, though. probably you know. Fair enough. Unfortunately, New York is also changing now again. New York is generally very unsafe. San Francisco has changed a lot.

I would also just never go to New York, period. That's me. You know, right? Exactly. Too many people. Too many people. You know, even Portland, I'm on, you know, kind of on the edge, the outskirts of Portland. You're residential area, but I would much prefer to be rural.

I would prefer to be on a mountaintop in a cave. That's me. That's me. You know, so very, you know, another wrong with that. Your way is not wrong. Neither is mine. It suits for us. You would love where I grew up.

Maybe. Is it more rural, low population, lots of countryside? I mean, I grew up in a village with ten houses, literally. Wow. Yes. You see the mountains from their beautiful view, you know, no stores. And then you basically have to cross the mountains to go get, find other people. No, not really.

So it's like two miles from there. There's a town. and maybe three months in the other direction. But, but, and then there's small villages, you know, within visibility. Yeah. And that has changed over my lifetime, too. I mean, I had a sense of living in a rural area and I was constantly leaving to go find something to do.

I was bored. Fair enough. Well, now I'm in a phase of my life where boredom is very nice. I like it. So it's a very different thing. So, um, so in terms of this, this dream theme for you, I think you'll, I think it will probably come back. I think there are some recurring dreams we're like, okay, you settled it. You figured it out. But this one is more like you are, you appear to be a person at your core.

Your personality is, is adventurous. As you said in the very beginning, as I put together from our conversation, you know, insatiably curious seeker of adventure, you know, so probably you will get restless again and you will want to move. You'll want to see and experience something new and different. So I'd imagine, uh, if you're not consciously aware of that urge building in you, a dream will come to crystallize it and say, it's getting time. It's almost time again. You're ready for this and you can go, okay, now I can con now, now that's the fascinating thing about paying attention to dreams is once that dream comes back to you, you can say, okay, now it's time for me to start consciously putting effort into saying, why would this

dream come? Is there something missing? I can satisfy myself. with where I'm at or do I need to go somewhere else again? And maybe you do. Maybe you will never settle. Maybe you were, uh, uh, your, your, your deathbed in life will be, uh, on, uh, during, uh, a, a plane flight to, to your next destination. And you'll just, you know, pass away in your sleep, but never, never settle down. That might be your future.

I don't if that sounds scary to you. It sounds scary to me, but, uh, that, you know, I, I think that sounds positive, actually. It's like you will just, you'll just quietly, uh, you know, you know, never stop traveling. even in your elder years, you know. Yeah, so I used to call myself a passionate nomad at some point. Yeah, yeah. But they do have sometimes that need also to stay in a place for a period of time just because it's also strenuous, you know?

Yes, yes. But also, and sometimes, and we are creatures of habits as humans, so sometimes you need a little bit of stability, or most people do. and I want to have my dance class and whatnot what I also wish I could have all my favorite dance classes in one place all my favorite concerts that I went to

in New York City my Congolese friends' concerts where he's now there right so yes and I know I can't have it all in one place but sometimes also it takes a little while

to find those things and to really get into that rhythm again and to adapt everything else around them because of the schedules. I'm not the one who determines those. It's other people, right? So I have to also have that time to adapt to it. So it's a combination of things.

On the other hand, I know that I'm not going to always live here in the city. I know it already. Yeah. It's a beautiful place. Don't get me wrong. The city is beautiful, but I know it already. And I always thought in the past, maybe, you know, split my time between two locations would really be ideal for me.

And I wanted to do that when I moved from Rio and it didn't really work. For me, when I moved to New York City and it's not super practical, right? But it might just be something that I might do in the future. And I think if I do, it would be between maybe here, or maybe somewhere else and someplace in Africa. Very nice. Yeah. So sub-singer in Africa is my thing.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Was I just thinking when you were saying that? I started thinking about the dog. He's getting restless. We're going to wrap it up in a minute, too. You've got to go. But the phrase came to mind. I think it was from Tolkien.

Not all who wander are lost. You know, there's an intentionality to what you're doing. It's like, and you have to rest in between journeys, adventures. You can't be, well, some people can, it's more, more people who are young can be on a constant adventure, no settled place. A few of us as we, as we age a bit, we're like, okay, I need a minute to breathe. Let me just calm down for a minute. And then I can think about my options. But yeah, that, and the final thought on that, this, so different dreams feel important based on where we're at.

So I would say probably this dream versus the other one you, we talked about earlier, you thought about. sharing, but this one felt more important now because understanding this stuff about yourself, these recurrent themes was heading towards being more relevant to your current experience. You're already having feelings of, do I want to see something new? Is it time? And you may not move again for another year or months, but now those thoughts are percolated. It's so fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just got here last year. But the thing is, but the thing is I know it's not going to be forever. That's, you know, I'm almost, almost certain. And for me, it's also that richness of, I enrich myself. Yeah. Because I get new, I learn new perspectives. I learn new languages. I use new languages, you know, I use different languages.

I think in different ways as I use different languages. So all of that, to me, it's richness. So it's not running away from something. No, no, no. I'm in Brazil, Rio de Janeiro was a specific situation where I said, okay, you know, it's probably

that had an impact for sure. However, it's not, so it's not usually that why I move. It's not about running away. Yeah, it's not driven from. It's moving towards.

Yeah. Angra for something, no sometimes. Exactly. And, you know, no right or wrong answer. This is, it's just who you are.

It's just, analyzing dreams understanding yourself better yeah yeah well thank you that this has been very insightful thank you i was going to say if you feel satisfied with everything we've been able to to explore so far hold on to a lot of it loosely don't think of any of it as a final answer but follow those those those those feelings that that feel true in terms of understanding and continue to contemplate it and you know you can always keep me posted i don't i don't very often have folks back to how you doing now like an update update show but I'm always willing but you can always reach out and just say hi and like hey guess what I am moving again fascinating so all right yeah

if you feel like we've we've talked about it enough then we'll wrap it up sure okay good deal well then I will say once again thank you yeah this has been our friend regina hubert from from France currently possibly soon to change uh she's a transformational leadership an author and insatiable seeker of adventure insatiably curious I couldn't remote handwriting anyway she has a book Speak Up, Standout and Shine

you can find her at Transform Your Performance.com link will be in the description below for my part would you kindly like share subscribe tell your friends always need more viewers dream guest dreamers reach out to me anytime love to talk to you 17 currently available works of historical dream literature the most recent the fabric of dreams by

Catherine Taylor Craig, all this and more, of course, at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. Also, if you'd head on over to Benjamin thedreamwizard.com, it's attached to my Rumble account, free to join. That's where I'm trying to build a community and where I would probably someday like to draw most of my guest dreamers. Let's all get in there together and talk about this stuff. So that is enough out of me. Once again, Regina, thank you for your time. Great talk. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on. And just one thing that I wanted to clarify, friends are I'm sort of like between friends and New York all the time but that's right that's right I think more time here now.

So just for people not still your views because some people know me only there. Well you like you you may actually be in that that wrapping it all up that state of a best of both worlds type of thing. Well sometimes I'm in France. Sometimes I'm in New York. I get the best of both worlds. I get to bounce back and forth. That might be your life for for a while.

So good deal. Well, I'm glad you're happy and I appreciate your time and for everybody out there. Thank you for listening. Thank you.