Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 169: Intuitum Aranae

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Darlene Greene ~ https://iamreverseaging.com/

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. Today our guest, Dreamer, is Darlene Green from the Chandler, Arizona area. The cats walking on the clipboard, I can't see. She is a director of client services for a network technology company, also a stem cell activation technology consultant, and retired Navy commander. So you can find her at I am reverseaging.com. I forgot to confirm that with you, but I got that from, yeah, from your. email so um we're gonna get right back to her in two seconds for my part would you kindly like share subscribe tell your friends always need more volunteer dreamers viewers for the video game streams

monday through friday 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific um if you would like to support my work you may do so by a purchasing one of 17 currently available works of historical dream literature the most recent the fabric of dreams by katherine taylor crag lovingly uh enhanced reproduced and uh brought to you by yours truly um Of course, you can find all that and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this very dream interpretation interview podcast. Also, if you'd head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, you can join the community there. It's free to join attached to my Rumble account, trying to make that, I would like it to be the primary source for getting new interviews, etc. So seek me out there. And that's also where you will find the secret recipes for the custom cocktails I make for each new video game.

So it's just a fun little thing I do. That is way more than enough out of me. We'll get back to Darlene. Thank you for being here. Oh, thanks for having me. It's really nice to be with you, Benjamin. Good deal. I just have to say it because it's still on my mind.

This, anybody out there, you can tell, I think. This guest reminds me of the gal who was in, oh, my God, now I can't remember. Stargate, SG1. Just, I should pop her face up on the screen for comparison or something

because I think there's a little bit of a, you know, at least to me a reminder. My wife says, whenever I say, who does that person in real life look like

and I name a celebrity, she goes, you're terrible at this. She says I'm terrible at faking accents too. I'm like, what looks like it to me. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I get, um, celebrity doppelgangers and, terms of that there's a guy i can never remember oh peter eustanov people say i look like peter eustanov i don't know if you know who that is he was a kind of a character actor from the 1960s he was in a lot of the uh you know roman or uh biblical movies i want him up yeah yeah yeah i mean he had a little shorter hair on top but uh he had the

had the beard and uh i think you know some facial feature resemblance so that's my that's my celebrity doppelganger i think anyway oh this cat well anyway that's enough that's why it's all about me. Sorry, I just can't. I get lost to my own little, my own little tangents. Tell me about the stem cell stuff. You said that's kind of a passion, passion of yours. So what, what are you doing? So I help people activate their own stem cells. This began really as a journey to try to help my husband who has early Alzheimer's at age 64 was diagnosed and did a pretty rapid decline. So that ultimately he was really cognitively age five. and no longer communicating, napping and sleeping the day away, and asking the same questions

over and over again, and just really not even his personality anymore. And so I had tried, we went out of country four times to get stem cells through IV and injections, and it didn't help. And we did hyperbaric chambers several times a week. And we had changed the diet and followed the Dr. Breedison protocol and lots of things, right, to try to figure out if there was anything we can do. Nothing made any difference. And then I had this friend.

say, hey, there's this patch, this is the size of a quarter, and it is phenomenal. It helps to activate, wake up, and self-replicate and produce more of your own stem cells. Because I guess when we're 30, half of our stem cells are dormant, and when we're 60, they're almost all dormant. And it's scientifically proven. There are 90 clinical studies. There are double blind placebo control. There's a patent.

All of this stuff. and I said, I'm in, I'll try it. You know, we have nothing to lose, right? There's a good at guarantee. They're not very expensive, particularly when you compare them to IV stem cells. They come to your door. There's nothing going in the skin. It's light therapy.

So no contraindications, completely safe. So I was like, yeah, let's try it. And in the first week, my husband woke up was back to his original personality, funny, flirty, did not sleep at all. No longer took three and a half hour nap, still doesn't, a year and some months later. And over time, other things started to happen for him. Like he began to, he regained the ability to whistle.

He regained the ability to drum. He got back his sense of smell, which he had lost 15 years ago. That's an early warning indicator for Alzheimer's. And I had also a bunch of wonderful results. I had been depressed and was kind of wanting to cry. cry every day and I was in pain. I broken my foot and sprained my ankle, got me out of pain, lifted my depression, reduced anxiety, gave us both lots more energy, better deep sleep. So that was my opening experience into this, this little tiny patch that, you know, I was incredibly

skeptical of. I have to admit, I knew nothing about life therapy. I knew, I read a lot about stem cells. I recognized that stem cells were really huge as your body's raw material. They can become anything if they're very potent stem cells, including differentiating into heart or brain or lungs or whatever, right? And so I research had pointed me towards stem cells for a long time. They'd never dawned on me that there was a technology out there that could help you activate your own stem cells. And then, of course, I first person I said was mom, dad, you know, sis, you need to try this. phenomenal and my sister had had six years of chronic microscopic colitis cleared up in three weeks my mom and dad got stronger and sturdier my cousins fibromyalgia symptoms went away my autoimmune

disorders went away i no longer had headaches i had had migraines where i wouldn't leave the house without a medicine ever and i just don't have them anymore i was actually on a medicine to increase my blood pressure which is kind of a scary thought but i had what was called pots postural orthostatic tachycardia, which causes you to pass out and faint, not getting enough blood into the brain. And I no longer have taken that medicine for the past year. I just don't need it. One of the double-blind placebo-controlled studies actually prove that wearing our stem cell activation patch, your heart, your cardiovascular system becomes eight weeks younger in just six weeks of wearing the patch. And then there's there's also brain studies that show a reduction of inflammation,

a reduction of hypercoherence, and a reduction of anxiety that are that are double-blind placebo control studies. So I was just blown away. And the next thing you know, I'm sharing with friends and family and before you know it talking on podcast, because I believe strongly had we started catching my husband four years ago when I first got the diagnosis, we would not be where we are today. He has improved in so many areas. He has also declined in other areas. So I don't want anybody to get the feeling that this has cured him,

but it has brought him back to a very high quality of life with better memory, with ability to converse back to his personality. And again, some of those great neuro things. It also did things like it dropped his blood pressure from 172 down to like 100,000. 20 and it dropped his weight and it dropped his improved hair growth like his bald spot kind of closed in and brown hair came in where he had grayed hair before so just a lot of other things um one of the things that i love is how it makes you stronger so these pouches are they work like you it would be a very obvious technology if i said you know how you go out in the sun and your body makes vitamin d and

And everyone goes, yeah, we all know that, or melanin for a sun tan. So people understand that light can create chemical reactions in our bodies. But what we forget is, if I looked at you with night vision goggles, you have light inside of you. And so what this little patch is doing, it's like a little, it's filled with nanocrystals, hermetically sealed, that reflects your own light back at a very specific wavelength that elevates a copper peptide called G. DHKCU, very well researched and studied copper peptide over 50 years of double-blind placebo-controlled studies that have been proven, that copper peptide has proven to be very strong anti-cancer, great for the heart, great for the lungs, great for skin, great for healing, great for the brain.

So that's how it works. It basically is just reflecting your own light back. So perfectly safe and available in 87 countries. I know you have listeners from all over the world. It just comes to your door, no prescription required. It's just, it's just the best, best kept secret. And then, and then you would think, um, when I found out that over 300 Olympic athletes were wearing this in the 2008 Olympics, I was like, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How do we not know about this? You know, Serena Williams, David Beckham, Michael Phelves. Now I find out Tom Brady, the Kansas City chiefs are wearing the patches. And I'm just like, how, how do I not, how did, I don't know about it.

And I think it's just quite honestly, between you and me and your listeners, Big Pharma does not want this getting out. So many people come off of their medicines after taking these patches. They don't need blood pressure medicine anymore. They don't need cholesterol medicine anymore. They don't need their thyroid medicine anymore. They don't need to take external hormones or bioidentical hormones anymore. It balances hormones.

So there's so many things that this gets to the root cause of cellular functionality. When you look at any disease, it's, most likely cellular dysfunction. And so what this is doing is it's going in and actually getting to the root cause that mitochondria and the DNA and resetting. It actually resets in one day, in 24 hours, 4,000 genes to the younger, healthier self. So I just am very passionate about it because I've seen such a huge difference in myself and my family and my husband. And there are people that are suffering that are in pain that have to use drugs to get out of pain. I love that I can get my mom had heart surgery, Benjamin, and she came out and she was an

excruciating pain. And they'd given her all of them pain meds they could give her. And I patched her with our pain patches right away and dropped her to zero in less than a minute, dropped her to a zero. She never asked for a Tylenol after that. Nothing. Nothing. And when you can do that with something that has no drugs and no negative side effects, you know, pain meds have very negative side effects. And they, they don't work over time, right? So this is just an amazing suite of products. Yeah. Wow. That's, you probably answered a lot of the questions I would have had.

I mean, the first one was the idea that, uh, when you mentioned stem cell technology, it's, typically we think of getting treated with as you did. You went out of the country to find these, find these things. And they take other people stem cells. usually from maybe very young samples, which a lot of people are not ethically comfortable with, but nonetheless, it's like, well, you got to do what you got to do to stay alive. But this one actually kind of helps reactivate your own internal, natural processes.

Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I'm not on the biology side of things. I'm more on the psychology and mystical side of things. So this is all a little bit out of my wheel. You know, to be honest, and play the, you know, the audience is definitely. Advocates, this sounds too good to be true in some ways. I thought so too. And so did my friend who started along with me that had Parkinson's and had tremored since she was five.

But after three weeks, she was no long. I mean, she couldn't hold a glass of water without it flying. And after three weeks, she was now holding a martini glass filled with the drink all the way to the top and holding it steady. The same person that couldn't hold a fork with food on it without holding her left hand was now able to eat. And, you know, it's worth read. It's all I would say is go look at the science. Go read the double-blind placebo-controlled studies. Give it to try.

There's nothing that there's nothing to lose. You know, when I went out of country, I was taking a risk. I was traveling. I was in a foreign country. I wasn't really sure what I was getting. I was paying $10,000 an IV for it. And I did that four times for him. And I did it four times for me.

I was ready to mortgage the house if it would save my husband, right? Whatever it took. and yet it did not do anything. So imagine now I have this single patch, $99 for one month's supply. You basically wear it. And it can be on the outside of your clothing. It can be in a pocket. It can be typically worn in the back of the neck or below the belly button 12 hours on, 12 hours off.

And it is immediately beneficial, immediately. And so reducing inflammation in the body is a huge. If anybody, I mean, if you think about it, most disease is caused by inflammation. So the fact that there is an anti-inflammation patch and that this patch actually reduces inflammation is really helpful. And you can see it. I mean, you can see it in the brain imaging that's on my website. You can actually see the EEG imaging. And you can see the pain reduction from thermal energy.

There's even a line for animals as your cat runs all around your desk. So cute, baby. I call it a value-added content. They're just there to be entertaining while people talk. She's adorable. And so there are people I've had, we had a person who patched their dog that was paralyzed and the vet said there's nothing we can do. And in three days of patching, the dog was running around like a puppy.

So it's a miraculous technology that has only an upside. Yeah. And you were talking about that that's what I would have to do is, you know, my, my, the follow up to sounds too good to be true is, well, let's look. Is it true? And then so if they go to I am reverseaging.com, you get links to the double blinds

and to the testimonials of athletes. Yeah, they can see the studies. They can see the testimonials of doctors and the testimonials of athletes, including NFL players. They can, it can actually see a video of horses that are being patched

and the difference with them patched and without them because, you know, horses don't have a placebo effect. And a lot of people would say, well, this has got to be placebo. Honestly, it's not, because you can actually see the results. But if you did think it was placebo,

cheapest placebo out there and do it anyway, right? Why not? It doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't. Well, I would say for sure that, you know, things like people don't fake Alzheimer's for fun. So, and you can't trick someone into not having Alzheimer's with a placebo.

It just does not work. It doesn't work that way. And it never occurred to us that his hair was going to grow back, right? Or that, you know, some of the things that happened for him, his ability to get a smell back. It's not something he thought, oh, I'm just going to hope and hope that my smell is going to come back.

You know, that was gone 15 years ago. So it's really remarkable. And what it has offered to me in this very difficult time where I'm watching the slow death of my husband and grieving in the midst of that process all the time, it's giving me this silver lining of an ability to help other people and to hear their positive stories and that they're feeling better. And that gives me joy.

So it's kind of a way of paying it forward. I didn't learn about it early enough for him. I don't think, although I'm still hopeful, but I don't know that we got it going fast enough. But I will say I'm grateful that he has the higher quality of life that he has and that he's continued to maintain those things. And that I think it's really in learning. part how I am coping well through this very tough, tough disorder. It's a, it's a very challenging

thing to be a care provider. It's a very challenging thing to lose your husband at this age on 59. To lose your husband at age 59 to Alzheimer's is really tough. Yeah. Well, one, possible testimonial to the patch as well is I would, I would have guessed, you know, at the most 39, 49, 49, not 59, not you. Uh, I do not, uh, I do not not see that. So there's a, yeah, there's a certain, hey, maybe it's a better, you know, beauty treatment than a lot of things as well. So it is known to reduce wrinkles because it increases collagen and that's noticeable in just a few months, actually. So there are some amazing before and after pictures on the website, including bolting discs, like four bolting discs that there's

no medicine for. There's no surgery for that takes about, you know, 14, 15 months. So that's, you know, cellular regeneration doesn't happen overnight. And if anybody told you they could overnight, I wouldn't believe them, right? But when you see some of the results that we get with these patches on people, you know, my girlfriend that's a doctor, she got involved with this because her daughter had a brain bleed. And she says this has brought her back to normal in a way that nothing else could. And another daughter that has another friend of mine whose daughter has a rare genetic disorder like autism, He went from kindergarten to upper, third, lower, fourth grade in five weeks on the patches.

She stopped taking her ADHD medicine in 15 days. She never had to take it again. It's just really remarkable when you can get rid of inflammation throughout the brain and the body. And she started growing. Her genetic disorder was one that stalled sort of halted her growth. And all of a sudden, she's slowly growing taller. Like they said, you'll never be more than five feet. and she's now growing taller.

So there's just a ton of wonderful, wonderful benefits. Yeah. Yeah. So if you can just reactivate certain natural, certain of the body's natural healing factors, whatever they are, it seems like it's going to have a range of beneficial effects that, you know, not only, you know, what is it, not only additive, but sometimes multiplicative, what do they call it? What do they call that?

Exponential, something like that. Yes. Yes. You're so right. And I think we forget that the body has an innate way. of knowing how to heal itself when we allow it to, and we give it the tools. We have a tendency to trust doctors in white coats because they've gone to medical school, but they're really, the medical school is really teaching them armaceuticals and surgery. It's really drugs, right?

They're really learning this medicine for this thing. Well, when you don't have a medicine for Alzheimer's and the only medicine that they just recently came out with, they got a bunch of buzz. Buzz is brain bleeds in 50% of the people with my husband's APOE 4-4 gene type. So that's not an option. People are dying from that. That's the worst, you know, do no harm is part of it, but I think they forget that there are most pharmaceuticals. Not only do they do harm, they don't actually get to the root cause and treat the root cause of anything. They mask symptoms and make you maybe feel better. And I'm not saying that pharmaceuticals aren't great in certain, in certain cases. But particularly things like PTSD or anxiety or depression, it's such a lovely thing to not have to

take a drug and to have your brain just balance and your inflammation drop. And I mean, I never thought of anxiety or depression as a physical inflammation kind of thing. I thought of it is, okay, I need more talk therapy. I need EMDR. I need this or that, right? And yet, I can tell you this was absolutely remarkable for me in lightning my spirit. And I've heard people as quickly as two days say, in just two days, I feel lighter. I feel, I feel lighter.

It's a lovely thing. Yeah. Well, in terms of like, things like Alzheimer's, they've, they've looked at brain scans and whatnot. And sometimes it's a associated with, I'm going to, I'm going to be careful how I say it, but associated with physical deterioration of the brain structure. I mean, things just aren't working very well. So, but with things like depression, why do the medications work? Well, they've, the way they work.

Okay. Number one, we don't know why they work, but they appear to. and what they're designed to do and what they what they physically the physical mechanism is say you take a you know an SSRI a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor so we've got these gaps in our neurons and they across that gap flows different chemicals um i can't remember the word neuro neurochemical well anyway and one of them is serotonin and sometimes if there's serotonin released into there and it's not used it's not taken up by the other side it's reuptaken by it's just absorbed and dissipated back into the back into the body. So they do a re-uptake inhibitor, which keeps that gap flooded with the missing chemical. That's why I say it's a chemical imbalance or missing chemicals. And so, okay, why does that happen? Why is our neuronal gap insufficiently transmitting these chemicals to be uptaken at the correct dosage?

Well, we don't know why. This is a guess. And we guess that actually retroactively by saying, well, what if we throw this chemical, at it. Let's see what it does. Oh, that seems to work. And that's, it's actually the development of the chemical interventions that led us to the chemical imbalance explanatory model. Like, okay, why does this work? So it's, we've almost been working backwards the whole time. I guess one of the same things with, with the surgeries is like, what if we just start cutting out bits and pieces and see what happens? And they're like, oh, look, if we remove this mass, uh, what do we call it? Well, it's called cancer.

It's, it's not an organ. So, and then like, a lot of these. A lot of these. things come come about from that exploratory process. So, okay, long story short on this, it makes sense to me that if there were natural healing factors in the body that could be stimulated by some, you know, less invasive or chemical means, it would possibly address these dysfunctions of the brain in terms of deteriorating synaptic quality and Alzheimer's fashion, as well as whatever is malfunctioning in that, you know, chemical exchange. So this, yeah, I'm not, as much as I'm like, I describe myself as a credulous skeptic.

I'm willing to believe anything. My bar for proof is pretty high. So I would go and look and say, you know, so I'm not, yeah, I don't dismiss any of this stuff. Like, oh, if it sounds too good to be true, it necessarily is a scam or something like that. No, I think you just got to look at it. And it also, I'm also a bit of a, on the conspiratorial bent as well, where I'm like, you know, if it were that easy to, fix some things that people making a lot of money from the other methods

would not be very eager to promote it. Right. That's exactly right, right? I mean, nobody, if you think about the hold the government has on Big Pharma and Big Pharma has on the government and all of those have on television and media. Oh yeah, that's huge. There's a sort of a

gag order for natural approaches. And I liked how you were discussing, you know, this is almost like a signaling communication disruption, right? This is light going into your body and signaling, let's do this. Let's get to work. Let's get those stem cells going for you again. Or let's elevate this peptide. There's a patch that helps with skin, particularly with organs, and by elevating epithelum, there's a patch that elevates glutathione, which is just your body's master antioxidant. And you can measure the glutathione in your body. You can see that in wearing

the patch in 24 hours, it's elevated by 300%. I was taking glutathione orally and by IV before the patch because I had four autoimmune disorders going into a pandemic. And I was like, I just do not want to get this thing, right? And the best thing, and when I was doing the IV, I was getting 27% bump of glutathione with a half-life of seven minutes, where this patch raises at 300% for 24 hours. People that live the longest in the world have the highest levels of glutathione. on when in the blue zones and other things. So just some there's some amazing benefits and and they

are provable. You know, there's a guy who I love his testimony because he's all about, look, I'm not a touchy-feely guy. I'm all about my stats. Here are my stats from this quarter to this quarter. Let me show you my blood work. I had a baseline beforehand. I have a baseline afterwards and these are my improvements. And this is the only thing I changed. I love that. Yeah, that's amazing. I feel like, I feel like right now, like Joe Rogan, just listening to someone who knows more than I do about something very fascinating and just listening and being like, wow, I'm just blown away by the, by the, by the concepts. Like something I've, well, I've never heard before.

So you mentioned this. I'm like, is this even possible? What's going on here? Yeah. But I've never heard of it. I agree. And there are a lot of people that have never heard of it. And when I, here's what's really funny.

And when I asked my doctor. I asked three different doctors. I have three doctors using the patches. Now, did they tell me about it? No, they did not. Why didn't they tell me about it? Well, they get in trouble recommending vitamin D. They have to be so careful.

If it's not a pharmaceutical prescription, they have to be really careful. So they liked them. They were supportive. They were willing to tell me they were happy about that. And I was like, okay, well, I'm giving a shot. I had already ordered him when I asked them, but they were like, yeah, I'm like, thank goodness, because they're on their way.

Yeah. And take about five days to get to you. So I was like, okay, good. That is cool. Well, I'm sure we could continue talking about this for quite a while with all the different aspects of it. But I don't want to cheat you out of the dream interpretation experience. So are you ready to kind of shift gears and we'll get into that?

Yeah. Let's do a, just make a little note to myself here of the time. time. Oh, okay. There we go. Makes it easier to find the timestamps. I didn't always do this. I used to like make it harder on myself that it needed to be. So anyway, um, so as per my usual process, I'm going to shut up and listen. Our friend, uh, Darlene's going to tell us her dream. Um, we'd talk a little bit beforehand and you said it's, uh, you haven't had it in a while, but try and give us the most clear recollection of one instance of that kind of dream. And then we're going to, we're going to get a new, um, how it might relate as a series of connected, recurring dreams.

So I'm ready when you are. Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you. Here's the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his Dreamscape's program features real dreamers, gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreamscapes episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience, and much, much more.

To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the Wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. It's interesting because it happened with frequency over years. I would say I've had this dream at least 10 times.

And it's incredibly, it's so real. When I wake up, I turn on the lights and I'm looking. Essentially, I'm in, I'm asleep. I'm in bed. In the dream even, I'm asleep. and I'm in bed and a spider comes from the far right corner on a web just right to my face. Like and it's big. It's like the size of a turn. It's like the size of my hand and it's going right from my face. And so my heartbeats racing. I wake up and I, you know, I am physically now looking

for this spider. It is so real that it has scared me to death. And so I have turned on the lights. I'm looking around. There is really no spider. And after, you know, the first several times, it truly was convinced there was a spider. And even the last time, which was probably, I don't know, four or five years ago, I was, I still got up and looked for it. Because even though I'm like, okay, there's no way, and rationally I know, there's no way I could have a spider doing this, I just felt the presence and I needed to do that just to calm my heart down.

So that's, that was, that was it. It's just a spider coming from the corner right to my right to my face and it's just the scariest thing. Yeah, for sure. Oh, that sounds. I would not like that at all. Yeah. No, I'll tell you what I did do, which helped, which is kind of crazy because it doesn't make sense. But I went into, I decided if I could think of killing the spider like ahead of time.

Like, let me just see if I could try to kill the spider. So the next time I, after I tried to think of that, that it happened, I woke up with my hand smacked against the wall. Like, I had just smashed it with, and so my hand was actually hurting because I'd smacked the wall so hard. Wow. And it didn't die in the dream that time. But the next time I thought maybe I'd gotten it, but I wasn't sure. So I now try to put out into my subconscious that, like, just kill that spider. Like, just kill it.

Whatever. Yeah. Well, this relates to, uh, So I've got, you know, I don't just shill 17 books of dream, you know, historical dream literature. I've read them all and edited them and released them in a new format and enhanced with additional footnotes and all that kind of stuff. But I like, so by the time I've got a book out there, I've read it like six or seven times through, which is amazing for, for me. Because without. Yeah, I'm doing the work.

And I've got about six more books to go. And then I want to start writing some original stuff. But, okay. So with almost every guest, I can talk about something. one of the books, the ones, the sixth, sixth book in the series called Studies in Dreams, written in about, I think it was 1920 by a gal by the name of Mrs. Mary Arnold Forster. And she had flying dreams, recurrent flying dreams. And she did experiments. So the title is actually a little double entendre.

It is studying dreams as studies in dreams, on dreams, and studies she conducted within her own dreams, including dreams. dream programming, which is where this, you know, she didn't call it that at the time, but it's our common parlance for, for that thing. And there's actually two different ways. There are historical records. And this, I'd say, was probably an outlier. But one guy who, if he wanted to guarantee he did not dream about a specific topic, he would hold it in his mind as he was going to sleep.

Now, that's usually the opposite. What, what typical dream programming is, is that if you want to have some experience or behavior or outcome occur in a dream, you do hold it. you hold it in your mind as you fall asleep. Well, I'm going to smash that spider this time. So what you were doing intuitively, you discovered what, what seems to be the reasonable and, and effective approach to that kind of a solution.

So, and you, you did see results from that as well. You're like, you know, woke yourself up, taking action. It did reduce the frequency of, you know, so I went a few years after that without the dream. And so I was sort of surprised when I had, it again. Yeah.

So when was the most recent instance of that dream? You said you go ahead. Oh, it's been with the last, I would say maybe four or five years ago and because we were in the house. So I, you know, my time line is typically like where was I living at the time? Oh, yeah. A lot of us judged, judged by that. I've been in the same house here for 15 years now.

That's crazy. I hadn't lived anywhere this long. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere. this long of my life. I wasn't even an army kid where we moved once or twice a year. But you know, every five, six, ten years, this is probably the longest I've ever lived in one one place, which is fine with me. I'm not eager to move again. Moving sucks. It's a very nice. Thank you very much. This is just my little garage studio and I've got a bed out here and the animals are happy with that. So the last time you can roll,

recall having this dream was about four or five years ago and there was a gap between that most recent instance and the last one how long was that gap so i recall having it probably once in the in the four or five years before that it's at least once or maybe twice and then it was really and i would say in 2002 to 2007 even later than that was when it was more frequent, really frequent. Okay. You know, like several times in a month, kind of. And then it would be a month, you know, maybe many months and then it would happen again.

But it was so upsetting. For sure. Well, what do I ask about that? Maybe we'll leave that. Let's leave that for a moment. We're going to come back to it, though, because I think the time frame, the life events. I mean, that's pretty typical. What is, what do we think about?

We think about what we experience. What do we dream about? We dream about what we experience. I consider, and my working theory, and I think it's true, of course, or I would change to another working theory, is that dreams are more, well, the dreams are our unfiltered thoughts as they actually happen when they're not being filtered through conscious attention and turned into language for the purpose of communication. Because when we, if you ask someone, you know, what are you thinking about?

Or it's a different question than how are you thinking about that? And typically we think in images, sensations, memories, you know, sights and sounds that are, you know, and conceptual, a lot of it's visual, a lot of unless you're blind, of course. And that's another fascinating thing, too, is that we're, we're thinking in the senses that are available to us, just as you ask blind people, what do you dream about? And they dream about sounds, smells, textures. The, because we are primarily visual animals, our most people have primarily visual dreams. Less so sound.

And then way, way, way down is touch, taste, smell. Those are almost never reported. But those are reported more for blind people or, uh, and deaf people, of course, never dream in sound. They it's it's a toss up as to whether they even have a concept of what sound is. It's like asking one of us, you know, what do you see through your sixth sense? And we're like, I got five. I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm like, you know, you're sixth. And someone who has a sixth sense trying to describe what it is. It's not, it's not like seeing something. That's just an analogy. It's not touching it. It's something else that's indescribable in some ways. Long story short, rambling on that. Okay, so we've got a little bit of a timeline of when this happened.

I think that's going to be relevant. but the most recent instance you can think of you're lying in bed and is it always the bed of the current house you're in? No, it's very, it's three, four different houses, four different beds. So it is always the current house you're in, not the same house every time. Is it, am I asking that right? It's right now. When it's, when it's happening, it's where I am. in the room with me right now when it happens okay so it's always the current environment

mm-hmm that would be to just so i like to do a little counterfactuals it's like if it was not if it was if it was not always the current room but it was always the same room that might that that might say something about why okay well what does that room mean but so what does it say that it is always the current room that it's it's uh in a sense it's a problem that follows you you. It's a problem with, it's the wrong way to say it, but a problem with you or that, that, that happens around you. And it's not tied to a specific time and place, as indicated by an iconic room that repeats. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, um, trying to get a view in this, in this instance, the most recent one. Um, do you have a side of the bed you're always on? Uh, most

couples do you know that um i i do but it has changed and that hasn't made a difference it doesn't appear so i used to be on the left side of the bed and it happened and then now i'm on the right side of the bed and it's happened yeah some folks i can change um you mentioned so if i tried to get a visual image up that's a lot of what i do is trying to see what you see get inside your head look over your shoulder with a flashlight um You describe laying in bed, I imagine, on your back or maybe not. That's why I ask, of course. And then you're on the left or right side from your perspective?

Either one. It's been both in different dreams. Just the most recent one. The most recent I was on the right side of the bed. On the right side. So it would have been coming from the corner nearest you? Right. The corner nearest you or opposite you?

Across the room. away from me and then it comes right to my face. Okay. So what I'm trying to get a picture of is did you have any sense of your husband being in the bed with you? No. Okay. And it's even happened when I wasn't married without anybody else in the bed with me at all. Okay. That was going to be, and I didn't want to tip, tip my hand a little bit too much. I was like, were you married at the time back in 2002, 2007? Back at the time, I was in a very tough, tough doesn't even begin to describe it. My ex-Navy Seal husband has narcissistic personality disorder, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, and we went through a pretty, it's hard to even describe how challenging it was.

Of course, court hearing, 10 years of battle at court over protecting the girls from his boundary violations and issues. and also, well, just anything he could do to fight me on anything, really. So it was a really, that's when they started. That was a really rough time. And I imagine that there's a relation to that at some point. It may very well be. I mean, that's the first thing jumps into my mind is that, okay, how is that related? I'm sure it is.

But what does that really mean? mean and what is what would what would make it necessary for you to see that? What is your brain trying to communicate in terms of problem solving and then why would it need to come back so often? Typically what we're looking for is

our brains crystallize concepts into a specific form and it says oh shit this is happening again or oh shit this might happen again soon or and it comes back as a in a sense a warning of like, oh, careful. Danger Will Robinson, you know, some along those lines.

But what is the specific nature of the danger, you know, and how can I help you understand in a way that's useful moving forward and that explains why it might have stopped? But we're getting there. So it is interesting, again, counterfactual type of thing. It isn't about a partner being in the bed. It was when you were in a relationship or not and it's and you're not getting. of getting a sense of anyone else being their presence. So it isn't actually necessarily about that partner or a partner at all.

It's very specific to you and some experience that you're having. Yeah, a lot of times, let's say another counterfactual. If I were to say what corner of the room did it come from? You're like, well, it came actually from the opposite corner where my, where my husband was and he was in the dream and it crossed over him. And now that you, now that you mention it, this extra detail comes to mind. We're not dealing with any of that. It is, it is you in the bed on your side at the time. So it's, it's all of these real specific, realistic.

It's almost like the realism of it also contains a part of the message. The realism is astonishing. Like so, so real. I can't even describe to you how real. My heart has, my heart is beating a million miles an hour when I, when I wake up. I am looking for that spider when I wake up. I recognize intellectually that the size of a spider being the size of my hand is not logical, but I'm looking anyway because that's what I just saw.

It's like I'm awake seeing it, and it's coming right at me, and now I am up and looking for it. It's just so unsettling. I probably shouldn't tell you some spiders are that big. I probably shouldn't tell you it's not that unrealistic. I'm in Arizona. I know that there are. You're right.

No, it's true. It's true. And they've got now, what is it? I saw the picture's giant, you know, hand-sized or head-sized, depending on the size of your head. But spiders that can parachute and fall out of the sky are coming to the northeast. That's not. I'm going to call you Benjamin if I have it in the next week or two. Please do that.

That'll be part of the aftercare in terms of like, I'm not going to leave. I'm not going to leave you hanging. I'm going to program a spray the room with anti-jointed. spray of some time for that. Well, hopefully if we, you know, if you do, you'll it will be almost as if you are watching yourself have the dream on a different level

from talking about it, getting that, getting that distance from it. That's art doesn't just, I mean, I feel like my heart is going to explode out of my chest. I don't remember ever being that afraid of anything in my life. It's like the most fear I've ever experienced ever. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, uh, I think that was part of the success of the movie Alien back in the 80s was and this is one of the first things that came to my mind that I was going to bring up eventually is um you know I think it's a very common human fierce some dangerous creature attacking our face in a way that eats it or just disfigures us or you know in the pain involved and all of that stuff just talk about horrifying that's that's very much you know very effective imagery in that in that film um and this was you know, it was definitely not, you would have mentioned. Oh, by the way, the spider had a

facehugger look and it reminded me of aliens. That never came to mind. It's not, not part of it. It's like a real normal black hairy spider. That was going to be the next thing. Okay. So we've got now the physical layout. We've almost kind of storyboarded. Okay. And so I've got myself in your position. I imagine I'm in bed. My, my attention is directed to the corner. And what do you have any experience of the thing in the corner doing its own thing before it moves it's always in process when you notice it when i notice it it's on its way to me okay on a web like it's fast and it's fast and when you say on a web it's like on a strain on a on a spider web like right on the spider web it's in my face so when you say web

So what pops into my mind is the full web look, but this is a line, a line of the web. Okay. That's correct. There she goes. As long as you're not laying on the part I have to read and write. You too cute. She's so cute. So annoying.

Okay. And you've definitely described a little bit more so I can see it a little bit better. So it's at least the size of a, of a hand. And it's black and hairy. That's correct. And any sense of the lighting in the room. It's dark. There's a just dark.

It's completely dark. Any, any idea of how you can see in the dark? Or is it just like a movie where it's like, you know, it's dark, but you can see. It's dark and I see the spider coming at me. I almost, I almost feel the spider coming at me as much as I see the spider coming at me. Okay. And then does it actually make contact with your face? Do you have any sensation that it arrives?

Good question. Don't know. You haven't mentioned that at all. I don't remember feeling the touch on my face. Like I don't remember feeling it actually land. So I would say it gets right here, but it doesn't actually touch my face. And you know. I think I wait up right then.

Oh, yeah. And it does spread out though as like it's going to. And then wake up. Okay. And then wake up. So when I say, uh, let's see. How do I phrase this? Narcissistic persons have a very spider like predatory quality.

There's no doubt. Does that that, I mean, you're laughing like, whoa, that, that struck something. Had you already kind of put that together yourself or is that a little bit of a revelation in our, in our discussion? No, I mean, it would, it's just he was such a problem. He had a mustache that was black, so it could be related, certainly. But it's, he was the cause of every bad thing going on at the time in my life when the dream started. And it was very, very hard. That was very, very hard.

Another pun or metaphor that comes to mind is the concept of a web of lies that. The deceit was extraordinary. The lies that he told were so shocking. And, you know, and not just, I mean, he'd write it down. He would put it in, it was in court. It was really constant. And I just had. no idea of people. He's such an effective liar. He was so good at lying that you wouldn't believe he,

you know, there was no tell, right? There was no tell because I think he either, you would know better than me, he either completely believed the lies that he was now telling because he's rewritten the world into his narcissistic view, or there is just absolutely no conscious. So he just says, and, you know, it doesn't matter, right? So it was shocking later to learn how many lies there had actually been and how well he lied. And there were some cases where I was right there, and I know exactly what happened,

and he would lie so convincingly that I would actually go, wait, is that, that's not what I saw. Like, that's not what I, I mean, I would question almost myself because his lying was that convincing, and then I would go, no, no, that is. just not true. So he was just that good. I'd say it is both. I mean, this is in my, you know, experience and whatnot, there's two ways it can be is, you know, of course, the sociopathic type persons are going to lie to protect themselves and they know they're lying. So

there is that and that happens all the time. But there's also the, I mean, what part of what makes it an actual personality disorders with the narcissistic thing is they are always right. They are always the victim. it's it's almost as bad as like you know it's it's the what am i trying to say it's the person who says you know if she didn't burn the eggs i wouldn't have had to hit her as if that were reasonable but they think it is they think it is they believe that they're like what was they supposed to do she doesn't learn i tried talking to her so i hit her and now it's her fault uh you know that that's very much a narcissistic perspective uh yeah always always right always the victim

It's always someone else's fault. There's a great thing. You'd probably love this. It's called the narcissist's prayer. It's like something like, you know, I didn't do that. But if I did, I didn't mean it. But if I did, you deserved it. And, you know, that, I mean, it goes on from there.

I mean, it's all the excuse making down, down to the bottom. Yeah. So I think, you know, if I was thinking about it, there's different kinds of, there's, um, there's, um, uh, there's different kinds. personality disorders and they have iconic representations in our mind. But we think of the, you know, the barking bulldog and, you know, who yells a lot and they're verbally abusive, but they're not physical. It's that kind of.

Rob, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah. And, you know, they're not pleasant to be around, but you're not really worried they're going to hit you. They're just kind of an asshole. And they don't make you feel good. And that's one type of, you know, aggressive person. Another one is the snake where it's like, they're always calm. They're always reasonable.

And you never know when the violence is coming. And it's like a snake. You know and here you've got a guy and I think this is this is great with the with the imagery too that's I would say that's iconic of that narcissistic web of lies type of person. They are a predatory spider and they you know you don't see them until you're walking through the web and it's all over you and you can't get it off and then they're in your face and I think it it speaks I mean if this is feeling right to you we can we can construct something that sounds reasonable logical but it's got a. got to hit you with the zing like wow this is really this really feels right and feel free to tell me if you don't and we'll try and adjust a different direction i'm not i'm not always right about everything i'm happy to be wrong if it gets us where we're going i don't i can't imagine any other possibility almost like it just feels so right that that would be reasonable for the situation and you know his impact was long lasting because was the parent of

two daughters and so yeah even through through time there were negative impacts to them you know in trying to it's it's a very difficult thing for children to be have a parent that's narcissistic right they they try to make the child to parentify them and they try to blame the child for things that are not child things and it's a really it's a hard thing to navigate as a spouse of a narcissist or an ex-spouse of a narcissist even so. So, you know, I certainly could see that. For sure. Yeah. And I just check in with people because, as I say, you know, I am not the expert.

You are. I got ideas. I got ways of looking at things. I got logical connections I can put together. But I'm almost throwing spaghetti at the wall, hopefully in a constructive fashion that isn't entirely random. But something's going to stick in some things are not. I've gone through a lot of interviews the folks where I make a suggestion. I'm like, what if we look at it this way? And they go, I don't know. I'm like, no, it sounds like you don't feel it. That doesn't feel right to you. Really, you are the expert. I'm just trying to, you know, help guide us towards those beacons that are in, you know, lighten up the dark in your own, in your own minds. Long story short on that, always check in with folks. So, but I think we're on to something just because, you know,

when you started talking about the origin of these dreams and then I, I, I, I, I mean to, you know, come back to it that way. Anyway, you said, you know, this was, during a period. And just to clarify, again, my understanding of what you're telling me is that these dreams didn't start until after you met this guy and were actively having problems. That's correct. Okay.

Yeah, because it would be a very different story. Again, counterfactual. You had these dreams since you were very young. And maybe they related to being a baby in the crib and an actual spider crawled on your face and you were terrified. That sticks with us too, even though it might be buried subconsciously. But, no, it looks like we have a reasonable genesis of this type. of imagery and how it's come together in your mind. Now, the question would be, okay, if we,

if we have kind of linked this to him, why, why experience it in this way? Uh, you, so again, counterfactuals, you didn't, you're not sweeping the garage and a spider crawls out from under a bookshelf. You know, this is in, in your bed. It's a web in you. Now, now I, my first thought with that is the bedrooms are not always no one symbol fits everyone but bedrooms is usually the most intimate and vulnerable space possible it's where we get naked it's where we go unconscious and trust that the person sleeping next to us isn't going to stick a knife in our throat in the middle of the night it's it's all of these things that are it's something we don't expose to the outside world there's layers of our house there's there's the fence around our front yard there's

the front door there's the door to to the hallway or then there's the bedroom door All these, you're going inner, inner, inner, more with each, with each, long story short, with each layer. So there's something about this being dangerous to you at your most vulnerable in your bedroom where you're supposed to be the safest, where you're supposed to have the most ability to be vulnerable with someone you trust. I'm going to stop there for a moment, just whatever comes to mind. Yeah, that certainly is true because there's, you know, there is no one that you become more vulnerable. with someone you parent other children with, right? That is, and I think I really missed it. You know, I really missed it up front.

And I was, it was just sort of blindsiding for me when the, when the lives became clear, and I realized what was going on. and the continued issues that were surfacing. So certainly, it was, it was, I mean, I married him and I had children with him.

So I, I thought, and you didn't go into that. You didn't go into that saying, oh, I know he's a terrible person, but I'm going to do that anyway. Yeah.

Right. Mm-mm. This was what appeared on the surface to be a very successful individual. graduated from the Naval Academy, had two masters in science, and, you know, made, you know, the neighbor brought brownies

and thanked him for taking care of their goldfish. And, you know, like, you just, there were, there were elements that I thought were just so clearly trustworthy. But there were flags, and I would say this, I did not understand the power of the animal brain

at that time in my life. really didn't trust. I didn't trust my own instincts. And when the red flags were going, my prefrontal cortex squashed them. And that was, boy, if I could ever have learned anything younger in life, it would have been to trust that animal brain. And it's in intelligence, wisdom, because I didn't.

Yeah. Well, I spoke about beacons earlier. And that's how I think of intuition is. It's like a lighthouse. on the coast. You know, it tells you something's here. And it's not wrong. Something is there. We don't always know what. We don't know how far we are from the shore, where the rocks are under the water. We don't even know if we want to go to shore. We just know that's a light. It is telling us something. It's real. Don't ignore it completely. Figure out what it means. But then again,

you know, hindsight's 2020. We're all stupid in our own ways. But not, and not even stupid, though. There's two layers to this. One is you were tremendously invested in this relationship. And It only gets worse after marriage. It only gets worse after kids. Now you're like, if I trust my gut, what is my gut? It's just a feeling. I'm going to tear my life apart over a feeling. So we minimize those feelings.

It's perfectly reasonable that we do so, even if it's the wrong thing to do. You know, there's a good explanation for it. The other side of the coin is that one thing that makes narcissists so dangerous is that they are extremely charismatic and skilled at presenting themselves well. It's like they're they try to make the outside appearance match how they feel about themselves. Of course, I'm perfect and wonderful and charming and, you know, Mary Poppins asked practically perfect at every possible proportion. And it's right. And it's only when that starts falling apart a little bit, they, if they, you know what, it would be amazing. And there's, okay, so this is a complete tangent.

We'll come back around. I've worked with social paths in the hospital. and to some degree psychopaths. But you can't go to them and say, hey, maybe you should be compassionate because they're like, what is that? I don't have that feeling. Okay, that's not going to work. So one of the few things that has worked at all is to say, how about you practice enlightened self-interest? So there's self-interest.

I want what I want. I take it. Enlightened self-interest is, hey, if I take it from this person in this way, it's going to cause me problems. So maybe we find ways to get your needs met that don't cause you some. So it's a self-interested motivation to be a good person. It would be beautiful. This is the tangent. If we could train, say, narcissistic folks, like actually behave like a good person as a means to shoring up that desire to be seen as perfect. Just actually, if you are perfect, you're not pretending. Just be perfect, which is impossible, though that's the trap they get caught in, is that.

And then you just make a mint. If you could figure out how to get that to be done, that would be fabulous. Right. A fourth coming book from the wizard's press, you know, a wizard's guide to retraining personality disorders. If I can, no, if I could do that, I would probably go down in the history of psychology. I don't know. I don't know if I've got a, I've got a Freud or Young's insight within me to see, to see the way out of that mess. But you never know, given another 20 years, maybe it'll be my magnum opus. That's right. Well, I'll tell you the way psychology is going.

I don't know if they're going to figure that stuff out with the profession. gotten a little ideological and less practical. And if you start with an assumption, you're not doing science. You got to start with a question. That's another whole other tangent. But back to you. In your specific situation, all of this got brought up just the question or your explanation you gave or your description, the relating of your thoughts is the best way to put it.

when I said, you know, why did it attack you in this specific location? And the next question would be, why the face? Because this wasn't, it didn't crawl up and bite you on the foot. It didn't attack your hand. I mean, feet and hands, it didn't attack your belly. It went straight for the face. And when you think of all of the stuff we've talked about so far, the nature of this relationship and how you were maybe blinded, what, what, I mean, eyes, what's, what? I mean, eyes, what's, on the face, eyes, nose, mouth. It's, it's our primary sensory collection and distribution, you know, communication apparatus. If you think of it in that regard, why did the spider come for your face? What comes to mind? I would say I like the thought of being blindsided,

but also what comes to mind for me is, is the brain and just the attack that I was under. was, you know, it required every bit of intellect, and yet I failed the intellectual test before really meeting him to understand who he really was, right? So I think it was, although it started, it started prior to separation, but it was within the year or two of my separating from him. And it continued even after separation, but then I was in a court battle with him. And it may have been, I can't exactly remember, because we're talking, you know, 2003 time frame here when it began, maybe. And, but I will say that in that time frame, I was learning the depths of the duplicities and the depths of, I was discovering that he had

narcissism. I was, you know, up until then, I was really frustrated not understanding why this was so hard. And somewhere in there, in counseling, you know, the therapist said, you have narcissistic personality disorder, an obsessive, compulsive personality disorder. And when I looked that all up, it was like, yeah, no kidding. You know, ding, ding, ding, ding, check, check, check, check. All of those things, right? So I don't know if the brain part of it has anything to do with it.

The blind sighting does, but those resonate for me. For sure. No, and that makes a lot of sense, too. So I'm thinking there's a lot of different ways. You could have said the spider came from my eyes. The spider was trying to get in my mouth. This was not the case. It was more the head.

And I like the way you said that, you know, came for the brain. versus the, versus the gut, in a sense, you know. And you're reflecting on this idea of I, I felt like it attacked me in a place I was vulnerable, which was I didn't, I didn't, not vision, but I didn't perceive. I didn't process correctly. I wasn't smart enough perhaps to catch on until it was too late and I was already ensnared. I was already, you know. And the thing that came to mind is, you know, that's the idea of falling prey to an unexpected

attack at your most vulnerable, surprise attack at a, at a, at a, vulnerable point at a specific kind of weakness, which may actually relate to why it comes back. So now that we've talked a little bit about the genesis of it and the crystallized ideas that are all wrapped up in this one brief, intense image that just feels like it's right on top of you. Can you see times in your life where it might have come back related to having that question resurface for you? Am I making myself vulnerable? I couldn't tell you that. I don't remember any sort of trigger thing going on in any of the instances that, you know, where I would wake up and go, oh, well, this is cause or, you know, I've got that going on or something at all.

There were certainly worse times. I remember a time when, you know, the thought of going back to court and battle with him. after sort of everything had been resolved, and he was kind of coming back again and saying, no, we're going to fight this more, and I'm doing this. That would do it. It really kind of caused me,

and I was looking back at seven years of pain through a court battle, and ultimately a huge, I can't even begin to tell you how expensive this cost was over time. And so at that point in time, I remember almost having a panic, attack and like not like because you just sort of pile all of that pain up in one moment think I can't do that again but I didn't it wasn't during that that wasn't a trigger for it I didn't have it then I mean that would have been an appropriate time and so I can't here I haven't in this house I haven't had those I can't recall feeling like that I don't even know why I would in this last six years really it's been yeah it's been interesting so but but it could be more it could be more associated with something that my daughters were

experiencing as opposed to what I was experiencing and sort of a reminder of you know this is it's my job to it was my job to defend them and to protect them and so there's this element of being under attack and vulnerable and not able to adequately defend for sure yeah that was going to be one other kind of

attack of clarifying questions too is like so if you can't think of things that were going on in your life that might have triggered it what was going on to the kids lives were they hitting certain milestones developmentally um where you had to start worrying about them picking a partner or their friend group or a choice of a choice of career or college perhaps that might have that's possible let you worry because i don't think uh what was i going to say um i think how do I phrase this since we that's not the right way to

way to go what is it you've changed over time you've become you've learned from these lessons you've become more competent so the the nature of your of your, the accuracy of your judgment your confidence in the accuracy of your own judgment is also going to change

over time and it's this dream coming back where it was you were say blinds cited, you know, attacked at a particular vulnerability. Well, that vulnerability changed, but the idea of an attack on a vulnerability then translates into what other, other ways I'm vulnerable that would remind me of when I was vulnerable in this other way that's completely different, but results in the same thing. I didn't see it coming. I couldn't stop it. So it kind of translates to other things that are not the same situation. So in a sense,

it's not always going to be about the same person. It's not even going to be about the same. situation. It might even be about other people's, but it's you observing this and going, you know, I at least have some relation. I give a damn about how this works out for someone else. Am I capable of advising them properly

to put them on the right path? So if we think about it that way, does any events pop up? Yeah, it's hard to say I had a daughter at the Naval Academy, a daughter at the Air Force Academy. both struggling with their biological dad through all of that.

And so I just don't remember well enough. It's just been too long. Yeah. No, that's fine. If it were, and it could have been something so, it might have been something that passed underneath your conscious awareness, but hit that gut subconscious awareness and the dream comes back. Yeah.

It could have been, you know, partner choice. for elder daughter or it could have been i mean who knows it could a passing conversation about one guy she didn't end up dating but yeah yeah or or or just their uh their own interactions with their dad uh that were hard i don't know for sure yeah well what else could i say that's useful here help me figure out never how never to have it again that's what that's what i was looking at towards like if we've if we've if we've kind of nailed it down well you you did something you did something yourself which I think is is is extremely powerful and that is you know the last time you had this dream years and years ago you'd already decided well I'm going to do something about it

I'm not going to just be passively fearful I'm going to fight back I'm going to smush that mother and you did you did now you still wake up with the intensity of the dream and that's fascinating to me He's like, I don't remember even having a dream most nights. When I do, there's nothing there I can hang on to. Like, what is my recent example? I have a snippet of an image. It's so short. I'm standing by the open passenger side rear door of a white vehicle.

And that's it. There's no, I don't know why I'm there. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know anything about the make and model of the car. There's no one else around me. I mean, you could be, you know, if I were to, if someone were to bring that to me, we could do something with it. But that's just an example.

That's all I get. That's what comes out of my head. It's very, I've had like five dreams in my life. I could tell you what happened as like a story. Long story. I'm kind of jealous. I'm kind of like, I'll take a spider dream. I can't.

I got nothing. You know, in the moment that I wake up, I feel like I've hallucinated. Like I, it's, it's, except I was asleep, right? It's so real that I'm sure I'm going to find the spider when I'm looking. That's how real it is. It's just Yeah And it takes so long to settle

Afterwards because my whole body has reacted as if it's actually happened You know, I'm also looking at the time frame And this is not exact, but if it was the last time you had one was five years ago Would have been 2019, five years before that 2014 five years before that would have been 2009 which is almost at the end of the 2002 to 2007 framework So there's almost a little bit of a something

it seems to bring it back on a bit of a regular basis as well and I don't know if that's it was certainly more prominent initially early on but then I mean battles occurred

they continued continued for you know there was just here and there issues for a really long time anytime you're co-parenting with oh yeah you know and with a narcissist you don't ever even when they're grown and out of college,

there's still issues around them. Oh, for sure. Well, that's what they say. You know, you're not a parent for 18 years. You're a parent for life. And it's the same. You're someone's kid for as long as they live. That's very true.

Yeah. So, yeah. So there could be a regularity to it that's almost like every now and again, you know, on a semi-consistent basis, you check in to make sure you're maintaining your own progress towards competence in a sense. Staying alert in a, and aware and protecting.

Yeah, yeah. So that may be, it may be a good thing that once in a while comes back just to say, hey, don't forget you had an experience that taught you to be a little more careful

and that that need to be careful does never go away. It is a very unpleasant thing. That's a tough thing to say, you know, you may never get rid of the stream because you kind of need it. You figured out that this is,

you want to keep yourself on your toes. That's unfortunate. I hope not either. Well, but then again, you also may have gotten to a point. where you're like, you know, you're able to relax a little bit more because enough things have gone well for a long enough period of time that you can genuinely afford to relax in a way where

it's like you're not tricking yourself into thinking everything's fine when it's not. You are like, everything's actually pretty good. Maybe I don't have to be so tense all the time. Maybe I don't have to shock myself with traumatic imagery to keep me from relaxing. Maybe it's okay to kind of just chill and go things are pretty good um so but but it's also possible the dream comes back because you know you do encounter another situation where you're like oh shit here we go again this this pattern that i've recognized before and maybe you know and that in that case i would take the dream as a as a an unpleasant but helpful warning to wait a minute why am why am i having this dream right now what has just happened in my life recently and it's a it's a time frame that that has a window to

it's things that just happened and now you're thinking back or it's things you're anticipating coming soon and you're thinking ahead so it isn't always it isn't always a current current event same day yeah yeah but and sometimes yeah i wish i could say uh you've outgrown the need for the dream but when dreams when life experiences are this powerful sometimes that image gets crystallized and it's just the best way to understand it but you can also i'm not saying you're doomed either I'm also, what I'm also saying is because the last time you had a different experience of the dream, you're like, okay, I showed myself taking effective action in self-defense to swat the spider. And to your knowledge, you squished it. You got it.

At first, the first time I tried that, in my dream, I didn't get it completely, but I got it partially. And then the second time I got it. Nice. I can't remember. I almost feel like I got it with something, but I can't remember what it was. But the second time I felt like I killed it. And then I did not have the dream for quite a long time after that. Yeah, very cool.

And then if it does come back. So, and again, once you understand. So one benefit of talking about recurring dreams is maybe they stop. The other benefit is it's likely it changes. Maybe the next time this dream becomes necessary because there's something you do want to remind yourself to legitimately pay attention the danger sign maybe the spider's just in the corner and he's just like hey you know he doesn't come at you he doesn't need to come out your face anymore you don't need you don't need to scare yeah yeah maybe maybe next time he's tapping on the window so he's outside

like ding ting ting tink and you're like spider got you thanks and he's out so hopefully that you don't need that such an intense reminder to focus your attention you understand the message a more gentle reminder is perfectly is is sufficient to get it into your awareness So I'm thinking that's most likely. So not to not leave you. I'm not doing. You're thinking we're just going to make that be the truth. I think so. And I think if you focus on that and you can bring a dream program it to be the case like I'm fine. You don't have to scare me anymore. I get it. I get it. Relax. I think so. Well, if you feel like we talked about it enough, you don't have any additional questions. I don't. Thank you, Benjamin. That was really enlightening and interesting. And I appreciate your expertise in this area. It's very fascinating. Thank you very much. Isn't it though? I'm I never know what I'm going to say. I never know what you're going to say. I never know what I'm going to say. I'm just in a lot of ways I open like a funnel. I open up the top of my head for the you know, spirit of God, whatever you want to call it. But make me useful in some positive manner. And then that's what I do. Just just that. I got nothing else. I don't know how I do it either. Yeah. But thank you very much. Experience, right? I mean, you've done a lot of assessment analysis, editing as you talked about, compilation, and then working at it. You've been working at it now for quite some time. So you get better. For me, probably about four or five years, just doing the dream thing, 160. This is episode 169 of just these interviews and the 17 books and 20 years. I don't think I could do what I do now without that entire road. I think this is all the culmination.

of that. So you got to do the work for sure. You do. Yeah. Well, I appreciate. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's do this. We'll wrap it up here. This has been our guest, Dreamer, Darlene Green from out of Chandler, Arizona. She's the director of client services for a network technology company, a STEM cell activation technology consultant, and a retired Navy commander. You can find her at I am reverse aging.com. Link will be in the description below. For my part, would you kindly like share, subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers. 17, currently available works of historical dream literature, the most recent, The Fabric of Dreams by Catherine Taylor Craig, all this and more at Benjamin the dreamwizard.com.

Also, Benjamin the dreamwizard. Dot locals.com. Join the community there attached to my Rumbles account. It's free. You can give me money or not, just come hang out. And that's all out of me, Darlene. Thank you for being here. Good to talk to you. Thank you, Benjamin. Great to talk with you as well. Thanks for having me on the podcast. And everybody out there, thank you for listening.