Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 183: Tiger, Tiger

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

Robert B. Foster ~ https://www.facebook.com/rfoster74/

Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of dreamscapes. Today we have a guest dreamer Robert B. Foster out of Rhode Island. He is an author, speaker, and the podcast host of the Shut Up and Grind podcast. He also has a book by that name, Shut Up and Grindbook.com is where you can find that. We're going to get right back to him in two seconds. Would you kindly like, share, and subscribe, tell you all your friends, always looking for new volunteer dreamers. Of course, I also play video games, Monday through Friday, most days. 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific. This episode is brought to you in part by ABC book 14

Dreams in Homer and Greek Tragedy. Wow, cannot remember. I just looked at the title. I didn't write down the full thing, but it's one of the books of my augury, bibliomancy, and chaos series. Of course, you can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. If you would also head on over to Benjamin thedreamwizard.locals.com. It is free to join attached to my Rumble account and looking to build a community there. One of the best places to reach out. If you have a dream to share, that is enough out of me. That gets longer every time.

Robert, thank you for being here. I appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Wonderful. Well, God. Well, where do you want to start? I mean, we've got your new book, your podcast.

I mean, sometimes it's nice to say what inspired you to get into podcasting the first place? I don't know where you want to start. Well, we can go back to. when I was 17 years old, so I grew up in the woods, right? Very, very rural upbringing. And I remember I was out in the backyard. I had a stick in my hand, and I was giving a speech to the trees in the backyard, right? And I hear my mom is up on the desk, and she's like, boy, what are you doing?

I told him. It was like, I'm motivating the masses, you know? So it was kind of, it was kind of always there. And I got into leadership at a young age, like I became a restaurant supervisor at 15. I became a general manager at 19. So I was constantly leading my teams, where the service meetings, kitchen meetings, and just as I climbed the ranks,

I was like, wait a minute, I can get painted to this? I had no idea. So in 2017, I went down to Atlanta, Georgia, and got formally trained to be a public speaker. And then from there, I transitioned into being a storyteller. And in 2020, well, actually, technically, in 2019, I started the podcast, but my father was sick. He got sick that January, and he ended up passing that November.

So, like, I wasn't really consistent with it because he spent a lot of time going to and from the hospital because he had stage four heart failure. Oh, wow. But then once he passed, one of the last things I said to him was that I'm going to make it as a speaker. You know, and he was like, you know, all right, go ahead, go out there and do it. You know, it was like the last motivational speeches that he gave me. So I had eight gigs lined up in early 2020, and guess how that played out? Hmm. They all got canceled because of COVID.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I went full force with the podcast. And just before I came on with you, I just did episode number 323. Wow. Nice. Doing pretty well. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we're, I think I mentioned earlier, this is number 183. And I would like to be for the last one hundred and one. along, but as I say, dreams come in their own time. And I'm not very well known. You know, and it's not like people are breaking, breaking down the gate to get in and talk to me. That would be a nice problem to have, have someday. But yeah, I'd like to, you know, I'm looking forward to that. I hope that by the time I hit a thousand episodes, I'll be a real wizard. And that's, and actually, that's a bit of a play on, I mean, the fact that I think wizardry as a concept is real, metaphorically, you know. And, but the idea of a thousand repetition.

of something from from Eastern philosophy. And that's actually, I'd say that that is very in line with, with what it sounds like your, your focus is this, the grind set or the grind mindset, as they say, you know, if you want to get good at something, you're going to suck at first. Even if you have a natural talent for it, it's a talent that has to be developed. And you get to that thousand repetitions. You put that grind in and then you get the results. Then you look at where, you know, how far you came from where you've been.

So I'll stop there and let you comment it. Absolutely. Like I manage a gym. Like that's where I am now. And I tell my clients that all the time, like, anytime we do something new, like, yes, you're going to be bad at it at first. Like, you need the reps. Like I coach high school track and field also. And it's the same thing. Like as some of the kids, especially the freshmen coming in. I was like, yeah, there's a few exceptions. You know, you get a few freshman phenoms out there. I was like, but most freshmen suck. That's how it is. Because this. is new. You're still learning. Your body's still growing. I was like, you have to be okay with sucking for a couple of years before you get good at it. I use myself as an example. I was like when I was a freshman, I was 5-488 pounds. Like coaches weren't looking at me like he's going to be the next record holder. But I ended up putting the work in. I chipped away at it. You know, my body finally grew. I gained some muscle. And by the time I was a junior and a senior, I was that guy. But at first, I had to reconcile as a freshman and sophomore, like, wow, I'm really not that good at this, you know, but I kept my eye on the prize.

I'm like, I'm going to break that school record in the high jump. And I ended up holding it for 21 years. Wow. That is very cool. So that's, I mean, that's like the, I don't know if you want to run us through maybe the, what am I trying to say? Like, is there practical steps in the book or is it more philosophically like, here's how to understand this, this perspective. What would you say about that? So the premise of the book is overcoming self-doubt and the fear of public speaking.

Because the two kind of go hand in hand. Like most people are afraid of public speaking because they have limited beliefs. Like they don't think their story is strong enough. They don't know how to tell their stories. So they focus on the what happened versus the how did you overcome. Like a big, a big staple of my talks is in 2009 competing in. track and field at 34 years old, I ended up having a bad knee injury where the doctors initially told me I was never going to run or jump again.

Wow. And initially, I was like, I was floored, you know, because I have five kids. They were all small at that time. So I have five small kids. And you're telling me I can't run around with my kids. I can't play basketball. We can't. I just started getting into this negative headspace.

And then within a matter of minutes, I was like, wait a second. I guess dude doesn't know me. He doesn't know what I can come back from. And so just every single day, day by day, I tripped away at my physical therapy and my training. And I ended up making a full recovery. I've done over 190 obstacle races. I'm undefeated in track and field, well, in the high jump in track and field since I got back on the track. Granted, it took me seven years to get the nerve to get back on the track.

I was just so afraid of it rupturing again. Yeah. But I was like, the story's not complete if I don't compete again. I was like, I have to get back out there. And, yeah, and I got 16 gold medals since I got back out on the track. Wow. So directly answer your question. I just wanted to give you the background on my mindset.

But the book, there's 13 worksheets built into the book. So it's not just read about me and my life. So there is some stuff in there. So you can see the correlation to why the worksheets are the way they are. But let's just say if you went through something in your life and you really don't know how to tell it, this is like a literal step-by-step guide for you to take whatever happened and turn it into a keynote presentation by the time you're done with the book. Or even if it's someone that just wants to journal, like it completely dissects every, inch of your story.

Like, there's no stone unturned. Like, as I was writing this, I was remembering stuff from that's buried in my subconscious mind. I was like, oh, I long forgot about that story. Like, I long forgot about that story. So, yeah. So, yeah, there's nothing out there

on the market that's this in depth. Very cool. Very cool. That's, and as you're talking about all that, that reminds me of, I guess, my journey to where I'm at here today. I never thought of telling it like a story. And it's not going to be very organized, well, just kind of get at it briefly. The idea of, um, uh, I tried being in a play when I was about 17. I was awful. But I thought, you know, I'm going to, and part of me was like,

I want to do this thing. I'm going to test out acting and see if I can do it. Part of it was also, I have just got awful stage fright. And I, and that putting myself through that experience, uh, was unpleasant at the same time it was rewarding and, and also fun. There was a lot of fun. It was great to be a part of a cast. and whatnot. And then I started playing, playing guitar and singing. And I, I got, um, the way it manifested in me was physical symptoms of like shortness of breath and shaky legs, like really intense stage fright. And I, but what I found one thing was that, you know, where it would show up as a quaver in my voice or whatever. It would be a, uh, that would go away if I, if I was singing. I could belt out songs,

you know, so I did, and I would practice by going to karaoke and different things. I was, I wanted to be, I don't know, there's a thing where it's like, I wanted the applause of a performance, but I wasn't really looking for attention. It's a weird combination of a thing. You know, I wasn't trying to self-aggrandize, but more like the reward of bringing something entertaining to someone is that way, you know, that someone was genuinely pleased. But anyway, one thing I heard when I was younger was that you never get overstaged, right, you just learn to like it, that rush of like, okay, it's just going down.

This is happening, you know, and in some ways, it's very weird. it triggers the same fight or flight the no one is going to attack you unless you say something directly insulting to the big guy in the front who's got a short temper that's a different story but but why are we so terrified i mean clicked it with me is that we've um there's a humans typically fear embarrassment we don't want to be shown to be foolish in front of others to to to under over promise and under under deliver um so there's there's a lot of this these are all the thoughts i was having as we were going along so and then i'm and then i'm at this that this point in my, you know, multiple careers or whatnot, where I don't think of this as,

how could I do this without the, the pressure of like, what if thousands of people see this? And I make a mistake. I feel the way I conduct this stuff is, and it helps that it's a recording. And we're just, you know, this is just you and me right here. But this is how I think of it. I'm having a conversation with one person. You and I are talking about whatever. And as long as I'm present for you, as long as I'm listening and responding and trying

to engage with you and what you're saying, then that is a success. A lot of it is how I define the parameters for success. So I just said a lot. I'll stop there. You probably have some responses. I'm not a good interviewer. I'm sorry.

It's like I tell people, you know, education experience is all relative. A relative. Like if you ask me to speak about fitness, I can do it all day long. Overcoming obstacles all day long. You ask me to speak about neuroscience. I'm going to be the dumbest guy in the room.

Oh, yeah. So, like, I tell people, when it comes to stage fright, you hit the nail on the head. It stems from fear, right? It stems from fear. I said, if I have to get up in front of a thousand, thousand people and talk about neuroscience, I'm going to be sweating.

A hands are going to be, going to be, you know, all clammy. Because, like, I'm not prepared for that. I tell people the two top things is you're unprepared and you're unpracticed. Yeah. That's what it is. I said, if you go and see a movie, and whether you love the movie or you hate the movie, you can talk to your best friend all about that movie. Because you just saw it, you just experienced it, and you have your opinions.

So that's no different than if you have to give a presentation at your job. You just have to take the time to get prepared and get practiced. It's just like being here in the gym. You work your muscles over time, they grow. If you're afraid of being on camera, you need to get on camera more. It's like if you're afraid of talking You need to talk more Go down to your local school

And start talking to classroom Start there And the number one thing I tell people Is stop worrying about the naysayers Like I'll give videos Yeah, there might be a troll or two I don't worry about them

I worry about the hundred people that said Great content Thank you for that I needed to hear this I'm not going to worry about the troll Delete and move right along Yeah if you're worried about If you're worried about the troll

your eye isn't on the prize. Like, and for me, overcoming self-doubt, that's a global struggle. Like, with my podcast, I've had people from six up to seven continents on and over 65 countries, and everybody shares that same struggle

of self-doubt, being judged, you know, what if I'm rejected? Like, don't worry about any of that. If I speak to 100 people and it changes the lives of two people, it was a score. Oh, yeah. You know, because you can't please everyone, as you know.

Yeah, yeah, no man can be all things to all people. So I've actually gone from, you know, what is it? Haters going to hate to ignore the haters to now monetize the haters. Oh, you're a hater. Let's engage on Twitter. What do you think? Oh, look at that algorithm. It's like, you're not hurting my feelings.

Exactly. Thank you for the engagement. That's too. Yeah, and I mean, that's the preparation and the practice. That's like if you know the subject, then all you got to do is just go through a few repetitions, a practice of of saying it out loud and talking about it. And I mean, I used to be the kind of guy who's when I started this, this channel, I was trying to do scripted little educational things about dreams and science. I gave that up pretty quick. I'm like, that is just not.

I'm so stiff and wooden and like that was just not, not my thing. I think my thing was just, I'm just going to be present and engaged and whatnot. Now, I'm still rather proud of what I did because I believe. everything I said in those videos, but it's like, yeah, they don't, they're old. They're five years old, and they don't get a lot of views. They're just, they're gone in the stack of videos. But that's, but you should, uh, the audience out there. You should go, go find them. They're very good, especially the one I did on, what's the, uh, what was it? Uh, this is completely tangent, but, uh, it was the difference between real dream interpretation and the potential mess you can get out of using

dream book interpretations that might send you in the wrong direction, using a real, example from an interpretation I did with a gal um um um anyway just with just with a particular uh guest dreamer I'm still proud of that but yeah just silly produced a 30 minute video I'm like come on

who's gonna ramble for that but yeah so that's the thing so if you get me talking about psychology or or or um you know the metaphysics of wizardry and that kind of thing I'd ramble for days but I would make a a terrible open heart surgeon. I cannot do it. The whole like cutting someone open to go in and fix things is just no. I can't do it. I would be I would I would be that guy that like passes out the OR.

I'm like no, no, no, no, no. It will never be. So a lot of it is I suppose also finding your innate interests. Like if you're really inspired, I think I'll put a tweet out about that too. It's like, you know, the art of wizardry is something. It's not just acquiring skills. And we can do that. But you got to have a burning,

curiosity or a passion for something that says, I am motivated to put in the effort. There's a reason for this. There's something to be gained or given through it. So I'll stop there. I said a lot. Sorry. You probably have thoughts. It's okay.

It's okay. Now, actually, I want to put on my host hat for a second and ask you a question. So how did you get into studying dreams? So, yeah, it's almost the cliche question. I asked you the same thing. How did you start your podcast? It's almost the cliche question. I don't know where to study.

start with people. I'm not an interviewer. This is not, I'm the, I'm a wizard guy. Do the dream thing, but I've started talking to people more before getting into the dreams because it gives me a little more, a little more collective unconscious background data to kind of apply to the dream when we get to it. But okay, long story short on this. So back in college, I'm getting my, my, my, my, psych degree. And I had a course in the history and systems of psychology. And we came to Freud and Jung and they're bringing science. modality back to what was considered the supernatural spooky woo parapsychology of

of dreams this can be real and functional so long I said long story short that's that's never the case with me sorry but the uh the assignment was find two dreams they can be yours they can be a relative you can you can make them up like a daydream and then analyze them in the style of Freud and in the style of young. I did that for two of my own dreams, which I hardly remember any dreams.

I just happened to have two that I remembered around that time. And when I turned the paper in, he was like, this is, this is it. You nailed it. This is A work on the path. I'm kind of a B plus student. I get an A.

I'm like, that's nice. And so around about that time, I'm like, well, maybe I have an actual kind of a talent for getting at the symbolic significance of things. And then over the next, you know, 20, 25 years, I worked inpatient psychiatry with some of the worst cases of bipolar, schizophrenia, suicidal depression, that kind of thing. And once in a while, I would, you know, people would bring or mention that, man, I had a weird dream last night.

Oh, really? Let's talk about it. That was just a door to open up to, you know, to talk about their life. And it's hard to start a conversation with someone who looks at you like you're their prison guard and that you can't be trusted, especially if they're schizophrenic and paranoid and whatnot. And so they say they had a dream. I was, we're just talking about dreams. Let's go. And then it opens a door to their life.

But I was going somewhere with all that. I guess that's how I got into it. And then, you know, I decided I didn't want to be a mental health prison guard anymore. And I said, you know, let's see if I can do this dream thing. And I looked around and nobody on the internet was doing exactly what I do. There were people who were like, I hear the voices of the spirits and they're telling me this. And I'm like, that's not me. And then there was another guy who was like, I hear the voice of God.

And he's telling me this. have been like, I don't hear any voices. I try to be a conduit for being of benefit, you know, of delivering the good to somebody, being useful in some way. But I'm just, I'm just using my own crazy brain. And I don't know where my ideas come from, but it's not, it's nothing, nothing supernatural. That's my story.

I don't know if that answers your question. I can't even remember what it was anymore. Yes. Ironically, I almost passed on you. Oh. Just because it wasn't really, like, I'm trying to. get to get bookings, you know, to further my overcome itself. But just the more I read into your profile, I was like this, because like I've read like

dream, dream interpretation books before. Like, I've looked at things online. I was like, I do have some wacky ones every now and then. I was just like, you know what? Let me, let me give it a go. Let me give it a go and see, see if he gets back to me. Well, even even. Oh, yeah.

Well, even the most commonplaces. So some people think they need a really weird or interesting. interesting, strange dream to be entertaining or whatnot. I think they're all fascinating. And it can be as mundane as, okay, so I almost never, I'm not going to talk about me more again. Sorry. I almost never.

Well, thank you. I almost, hopefully it'll open a door to further a conversation, but I almost never remember my dreams. And when I do, it's usually something very vague and very contained. So one of them recently was I have the, the image or the experience of standing, next to the open rear passenger door of a white four-door vehicle, a car. And that was it. That's the only impression from the dream.

And then, just the other night, a couple days ago, I had one where my utility trailer was missing from where it was parked. And that, okay, that can be in a lot of things what's going on in my life without getting into too much of it. It doesn't take too much time. But it is currently full of things that I need to take to the dump. and I just haven't done so. So the idea of the symbolism of the utility trailer,

if it was empty and parked and gone, maybe I would think, oh, no, I've lost something of value. It's been stolen from me. I didn't move it. I don't know why it's gone. This is a tragedy. The interpretation I would come to for myself in discussing it is, I want that thing gone.

I want all the garbage in it gone. So if I woke up tomorrow and that trailer was, gone, I would say, hallelujah, someone took it to the dump. It's, it's, it's, so it's more like a relief of obligations would come out of that understanding of the dream. So, and just from that one image trailer gone. And it doesn't matter a lot of the details around it. Like it's an image of the actual literal physical space the trailer is kept in. And, uh, it was just empty. The trailer was gone. Like, oh, what a relief. That's what I woke up feeling. I woke up feeling relief from burden. Sometimes dreams

offer their own interpretation in that way. You wake up knowing that's exactly what that was about. Long story short on that one. So you can even analyze your own dreams. That's one of the things I'm trying to bring to the audience is like, just watch what I do. Just let your brain pop and you'll get some ideas and you'll follow some of them and some of them will, they won't pan out.

I can't tell you how many times I've asked the wrong question or suggested the wrong idea. And a person goes, no, that's not it. But wait. just thought of something. And that's when I say, I'm happy to be wrong if it gets us where we're going. Sometimes you've got to hit a dead end and go, okay, now we've verified that's not the way to go. Uh, yeah, now maybe some people would be embarrassed by that.

They want to look all knowing. They want to look like the authority. And I'm, I tell people, none of the answers are in me. This is not about me at all. You are the expert. I'm just someone you, the way I phrase it, you invite me into your head to stand over your shoulder with a flashlight and look around going, do you see what I see? What if we look at it from?

this angle. That's it. That's all I got. And for some reason, it works. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, you have that psychology background and the irony, I dropped out of college three times. Oh, wow. Three times because I didn't want to take psychology. Oh, wow. Everything that I do, even with the fitness, even with people coming in for fitness, because most people don't come in because they're feeling great about themselves. It's like they're usually at some type of a low point And I try to get to the heart of what that low point is. And then again, with storytelling and, you know, having people revisit something in the past that hurt them that they haven't healed from and helping them sift through it. Because a lot of people, they keep it in because they don't want to revisit it again.

True. But I'm like, but we're going to revisit it from a different angle. You know, so we're not talking about what hurt you. We're going to talk about how you recovered from it. Like, that's where the story is. So many people don't go up to other people and then don't just word dump on them. It's like all you're doing is just talking about what happened. Like when the doctor told me I would never run a jump again, that's not the main part of the story.

A part of the story was me defying those odds. And so if somebody else is going through something, I could be like, hey, listen, somebody with a PhD told me I was never going to run a jump again. I was like, and here we are. Right. So like, you know, so now that story is inspiring. It's not that, oh, I had a bad knee injury. I had to rehab for two years. And right now you're just playing the woes me game.

Yeah. Rather than saying, this is what I was told and this is how I beat it. Oh, for sure. That's the difference. Yeah, I think when you said storytelling, that, I mean, that, that unlocked something in my head too, where I think more people need to look at their life as a story or at least events in their life as a story. And we, and that's, I think, the value of a particular view of psychology, which is, the idea of Joseph Campbell's hero with a thousand faces. And we, we have all this, these heroic figures in mythology and in different storytelling, in modern storytelling. I mean, if you think of it, the, you know, the Avengers are just modern gods in a way.

I mean, we don't believe in them, but they have God-like powers and they're trying to do heroic things in the world. But if you look at these stories, I mean, the most interesting ones are, oh, look, the. hero isn't perfect. He doesn't always succeed. But you know what? He gets knocked down and he gets back up. And he comes back because he's driven to save the day, to do, to accomplish something great. And when we retell the story over and over again, uh, you know, someone of perhaps innate talent, gets called to adventure. They have some struggles in the dark woods. They defeat the dragon and they bring the gold back to the village to share. And that gold can be literal gold. Oh, we needed money. We, we needed a solution to our water wheel is broken. We can't grind.

grain. We need, we need knowledge. We need information. It's, it's Prometheus returning with, you know, the, the human version of a Prometheus carrying the first torch back to camp going, look what I found in, in the woods, and now we can put it in this pile of rocks, and now we can cook food. I mean, I just, the power of storytelling. I think we're narrative animals. I think that's kind of what defines us, is this ability to conceptualize the storytell. It's the oldest form of entertainment. That too. Get around the campfire and you tell stories. Like, that's what it was before TV and radio and all those other stuff.

It was storytelling. But you had mentioned about people, like, kind of self-analyzing their own dreams. Yeah. It's like, I think with some of the ones that I have, I think I know why, because I'm one of those guys, when my back is up against the wall is when I shine the best. And I think it's from all those years that I spent managing restaurants. Remember I said earlier, I started young in the supervisor role. So constantly putting out fires, putting out fires, putting out fires.

Like that was my whole thing. But like, A, I'm definitely afraid of snakes. So snakes tend to pop up in my dreams every now and then. Well, is that part of the one you've got to share today? Is there a snake in it? No, no, not this particular one. I mean, but like you, I don't really remember every detail of my dreams, but I can definitely give you aspects. But one that reoccurs, is me being chased by wild animals.

Oh. And then I wake up, like, right before they get to me. Yeah. Like, I'm always on the run. And every now and then, I'll get one of me falling, too. Yeah. Those are two of the most common types of dreams, which is throughout. So I've got my works of historical dream literature.

I'm not just shilling books. That has been my self-designed master course in dream interpretation. I was going to read everything. Every other great thinker has said on this subject and encapsulated it. And one of the recurring themes is what they call typical dreams. And they're typical because most people have some variation of these. So you've got, you mentioned too, the boogeyman dream, which is anything chasing you. And usually you wake up before it gets you.

You have difficulty running away as if you're running in slow motion or you're fighting with something that you feel physically incapable of harming, but you're at fear of great harm. Yeah, yeah. And then the other dream is falling. And there's a fascinating thing, too, where, you know, it's a bit of a myth that people don't remember hitting the ground in dreams of falling because the ones who do die. There's no evidence of that. It's an interesting theory, but there, of course, have been reports of people who say, yeah, well, I hit the ground and it was, I just landed. Or I hit the ground and it was like, it was made of rubber, like a trampoline, you know, that kind of thing. But that, yeah, that sensation.

And then there's been a lot of science looking at or a lot of attempts to make scientific explanations of why we have that falling sensation in a dream. There's another interesting, I can just, I can talk about this stuff for ages, sorry. There's another interesting phenomenon called that most people will, if they hear this, they're going to recognize it's called a hypnagogic jerk. And what it means is you're laying in bed and you're almost asleep and suddenly you feel like you're off balance and you move your body to try and catch your balance. Having completely forgotten, you're laying down on a bed. You're not falling at all. But we have that sensation. We jerk ourselves awake.

And it's hypnogogogogos because hypogos means going to sleep as we're going to sleep as we're. falling asleep versus hypnoponic proceeding from sleep or after sleep. And we can have hallucinations on both sides. It's a whole fascinating subject. Sorry. So you gotta know all these things and then I'm like, I'm trying to apply them to individuals, individual's dreams. But, um, okay.

So if we look at, uh, theoretically the broad, broad strokes, what, what do I do with something like you've got a recurring dream of being chased by wild animals? So there's gonna be, we're gonna look at different things of like, okay, in what setting, is it in the forest that's where wild animals would be is it in a city interesting that they're out of place um what is what is meant by wild animals are there specific types of wild animals um a recurring theme you set of snakes sometimes is um and then we might look at okay why have you chosen to represent something threatening and dangerous as a snake and not say as a bear we start looking at counterfactuals that's how i get into that kind of stuff and you know we go

And so normally the way I do is a lot of people want to tell me about the common themes across recurring dreams. And that's great. We're going to get there. But I do it backwards. Let's look at one specific instance of a dream, typical of this kind for you. We're going to figure that one out a little bit. And then we're going to start looking for commonalities that run across. And one of the cool things is that if we expose the meaning, if we understand the message,

in some significant way, either the dreams change and you start having a different interaction with the animals or not running away from them or turning to face them by choice or conquering them or you turn around and say, boo, and they run away. Or the dreams stop altogether because they're no longer necessary. And another last thing real quick, I'm talking a lot. Sorry. Okay. If the dream encapsulates a crystallized or a rocket. iconic representation of a specific type of challenge that reoccurs in your life. Anytime that challenge comes back, if we can identify what it is, that dream will be a warning of like,

here's something to look out for. So dreams can be prophetic in that manner of like you're subconsciously reading signs that another bit of danger is coming and you can anticipate it. And that warning will come from your subconscious in a way that you can't quite consciously put together yet. It'll give you a heads up. So that's a lot. I don't even know where to go with all that.

I hope that answered your question. I know you had kind of a question or comment that I was responding to. How much knowledge do you have with sleep paralysis? A fair bit. I need more. But do you have a specific question? Because I can give you the overview. But have you had that experience?

Well, because these go hand in hand. So when I was at my old house, it happened a lot. but I was also in a not great situation. There was a lot going. I was coming out of a 13-year relationship. As I mentioned, I got five kids. Business, you know, post-COVID wasn't doing great. You know, so, like, there was just a lot going on in that time frame.

That's a recipe for stress. Yeah. Yeah, and it happened a lot. But, like, it would be just even take the wild animals, they're like, something's chasing me or it could be a person chasing me. And I guess in that in-between state to where I just, like I can't move and I can't wake up. It's like it's so scary.

Oh yeah. It's such a scary, scary feeling. I remember when I was with my ex, in my mind, I'm thinking I'm calling to her for help. You know, so it's like I'm kind of conscious but still asleep. Like it's the scariest thing. Like I'm trying to move. I'm trying to reach out to her. I'm trying to call to her.

And then again, right before this thing gets to me, I droolp myself awake. And she's just sleep in peace. and like none of that actually happened. Yeah. Right? Like none of that. Like I'm thinking I'm trying to like reach out to her and stuff. And it was the scariest thing.

Like since I've moved to where I am now, it's happened a couple of times. But it's, but there it was like almost weekly. Like I don't know if it was just because there was so much turmoil going on or what? Yeah. I think what was that's basically what we do is we start looking out, okay, what was going on in your life that might relate to those symbols in the dream? And it seems like there was so much, so many problems, so much stress. And it was things that could be deadly. I mean, deadly in a way of like, you lose your livelihood.

How do you put a roof over your head and food on the table? I mean, there's a, there's real stress involved. How am I going to make a living? How am I going to take care of my kids? And so my, my connection, that my brain and what I tell people to do, sometimes I should just spit it out. But what I tell people to do is if you hear something, you're like, that's not it. Don't just go with it because I'm the dream guy.

Say, tell me. That's not it. You know, so what I would say is that if there's real existence. threats, you're under at that moment, then the idea of, it's as if a wild animal chasing them. There's, in my estimation, there's some kind of a connection there that you're, you know, worried a danger is going to catch up to you and you're not going to be unable to escape, that you're not going to survive this stressful encounters in life.

And it may have been bad enough that, yeah, now that you've moved away, like physically and emotionally and psychologically away from that situation, Um, that may have crystallized in a way that anytime you feel your current stability and safety are under threat, that dream might come back to say, uh, you remember, you remember when this was happening before? Pay attention. Careful. You're in a, you're heading for a similar situation.

He's going to crawl under my armpit for real. What are you doing? I don't, buddy, you can't. He can't do that. Not, not right now. Uh, but anyway, I don't know if you have comments on that or the ideas I presented. If that's not quite it, we can talk about it more.

Or you can go, you know, that seems about right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in that time frame, there was so much, so much going on, too, because I was supposed to be working with someone else and we were actually going to merge our two businesses because we were kind of working side by side. And I, you know, full transparency, I did owe him some background because, you know, COVID got hairy there for a minute there, you know, especially when all the gym shut, shut down, like I lost a lot.

Yeah. And so he had another business where I was like, so how about I work off the rest of what I owe you? I said, because I can go into this gym, put in a program, and I can generate what I owe you. Yeah. And he agreed. He agreed.

And so, but the deal was I wasn't going to build my business off of his, his leads for that gym, which made sense. Sure. So I agreed to it. And I want to say, this was. was in April of 2022. And by June, I had already generated more than what I owed them. And so, all right, and now it was time for us to merge the businesses because mind you, I wasn't building my business.

Yeah. So I don't have any new money coming in. And so like everything I was building for there was going into that business. Yeah. And so now I'm like, dude, we got to merge these businesses like because I'm operating on no income at the moment. And so now, again, this started in June. So it wasn't until I think I lost my car at September or October. And then I get an eviction notice from from my house. I'm like, we have to merge the businesses. Like, I can't keep doing it. But I held on, A, because if he was just paying me,

I was in a good spot because he didn't really micromanage me. You know, I had the place running the way I wanted it. We tripled the membership. Like, everything was going well. I just needed a paycheck. And so now I get the eviction notice and I tell them, you know, I'm going to lose my house. Like, I already lost my car. I was like I'm riding my bike to and from the gym. And so finally in February of 2023, so like I'm out of the house now. I was bouncing around through between hotels. I sent my oldest daughter down with my mom and my younger kids went with their mom.

And so it's like I'm like literally homeless right now. So I had a whole lot of stuff going on. And finally, I swallowed my pride and I called my mom. And I was like, can I come home? I was like, I'm literally homeless right now. So I ended up dropping the keys on the desk. And I text him, I'm like, I'm done. And I left behind probably $10,000 worth of equipment.

And I was like, I was like, I built my gym from nothing and I'll do it again. But just during that period, the dreams were intense. intense and it always had to be something was after me whether it was people whether it was a pack of people whether it was animals oh yeah and and i don't know if it was because life was hitting me from all sides if that's what those dreams represent but you're the expert no i think i think so that makes that makes a tremendous amount of sense i mean what you've got going you know what dreams are okay don't let me forget you asked about sleep paralysis we're going to get to we're going to get to that i want to give you an answer but it's um okay so foundationally

number one, my perspective and what I believe to be true is, you know, just like the heart beats and the lungs breathe, the brain thinks. And it does that whether we're awake or asleep. And, you know, when we're awake, we're usually processing what's going on in front of us and gathering new information. And when we're asleep, we're kind of processing or defragmenting in a way. And dreams are, you know, Freud would say, every dream conceals a wish. Well, in a way, but they're not always fulfilled. They're definitely wish fulfillment dreams of, hey, wouldn't it be nice. to fly and then I fly. Yay. That's great. There's nothing wrong with that. Wishful fulfillment. Or I sure wish I was more popular. I have a dream about being a rock star. Wonderful. But dreams are also very often problem solving thought experiments. Like I need to figure out this thing. I don't understand. Let's see if I can run myself through some scenarios that give me some insight or answers as to what I'm supposed to do, how I'm supposed to. So when I tell people to sleep on it, I don't, I don't just mean metaphorically give it time. I mean literally go to sleep. I can't tell you how many times I wake up in the morning. I go to bed with a problem.

I don't have an answer to. I have no memory of any dream and I wake up with an answer in the morning, like, or clarity on the subject. Here's how to understand that. Here's what to do about that. So that's what I think, that's what I believe dreams are, is that kind of thought experiment, problem solving thing. And they're almost always related to something. I don't think any dream is, completely meaningless, even though they all, they don't all have the same profound utility. You know, some dreams are like pretty mundane, pretty, pretty normal. We get it. We get an answer to it, but this is not earth-shaking.

And sometimes people just go, whoa, and it blows their mind. I love those, I love those experiences. It doesn't happen all the time. Most dreams are pretty, pretty tame, you know, pretty, uh, okay, but, uh, sleep paralysis. Let me, let me get that while I remember. The words dry mouth. Always. Okay, so biologically, physiologically, what do we got going on there?

there's um one of the one of the best ways to kind of address address the subject is to say you're familiar with sleepwalking uh some somnambulism the idea that some people in the middle the night get up and start acting out their dreams now that's not supposed to happen that's a disorder because we've got a biological function that once we go unconscious once we slip into sleep it disconnects the brain from the muscles so you can have the sensations it's all happening in your head and it's, you know, it's from the neck up. Nothing, nothing else is going on except when there's a disorder. Now the, now sleep paralysis is the reverse of that disorder. So if somnambulism is when the mind is asleep and the body is awake, then sleep paralysis is when the mind is

awake and the body is asleep where we've come to consciousness, but that, that disconnect switch that turns off our body hasn't turned back on again. So we get the sensation of, I can't. I can't breathe because as if something is sitting on my chest because you are breathing automatically you literally cannot draw a breath voluntarily you can't tell yourself i'm going to inhale and hold it you're on autopilot um and also for the same reason you can't move your limbs i mean uh it's it's almost like um distinct from but similar to the idea of you know if you let your hand fall asleep and then try to move each finger individually you can't move any of them you can barely move the whole wrist.

So it's kind of that function. I don't know if that answers your question or do you have additional questions on sleep paralysis and how it functions? No. No, that was pretty clear. Yeah, it's basically a physiological thing that we don't understand. There's so much we don't understand.

We don't know what causes it. We don't know how to stop it. We know some medications decrease the incidence of it or make it stop in some individuals and not for others. We don't know why. It's one of those things. But it's not. life-threatening, you know, no one's ever died from sleep paralysis that we're aware of,

that kind of a thing. I don't even know how you'd check that, but it's never been reported. And it seems like if it happens to you, it is based on your unique biology. And that's the reason that happens to some people and others, but we haven't found, you know, it's not a psychological problem. It's not a problem of unhealthy living or sin or anything bad. You know, it's not actual demons sitting on your chest as far as I know. I've actually read that.

Yeah, yeah. That's a pretty strong belief. And there are people who see or feel entities as if that's happening. I don't discount those stories in terms of, I believe you. I believe that's what you experienced. I'm not sure that's what it was. So, you know, but then I'm not a, I don't debate these things usually. I just kind of read the literature and come up.

my own come up with my own ideas um yeah like my kids are convinced that our first house was was haunted like they are convinced right if you ask them to this day they'd be like definitely it's like i would definitely feel some off offness we'll call it so not enough to where i can say wholeheartedly but there's plenty of times where i've been doing something like oh yeah what was that i'm so There's a great thing. So there's the, there's two, well, there's two sides to everything, but there's, there's two realms of dreams. And one is kind of the prophetic dreams, psychic connections, spooky woo side of things.

And then the other is the hard science, psychological, you know, very personal explanatory system for dream. So what I do is I stay in my lane, which is I understand the psychological stuff better. I don't understand the supernatural stuff as well. so I don't disbelieve it, but I also don't believe it. It's one of those things where it's like, and the same thing with that with ghosts. Like, is it possible that there's remnant energy from traumatic events? Oh, yeah.

That's entirely possible. Is it real? I don't know. Okay, the only weird thing I've ever had that made me wonder was I went to, I was renting this, this apartment over some guy's garage, you know, 25 years ago. And I woke up in the morning and the dishwasher door was open. dishwasher is empty. I didn't do dishes that way.

I had like one plate and a fork. I was just wash them in the sink. I have no memory of opening the dishwasher. And yet it was open. And I'm like, I don't know how that happened. Now, is it possible? I had an episode of sleepwalking and I thought I needed to do the dishes. Sure, that's, I have no memory of that.

But also, if it wasn't me, what the hell was that? That was pretty freaky. So that's my one kind of ghost encounter. As far as I can tell of like, I don't know what happened there. That's really weird. You know, people used to tell me that when they lost someone that they came to them in their dreams to speak to them. And I used to think those people were crazy until my dad died. Until my dad died.

I remember before I made the decision to call my mother, it was like a night or two beforehand where I had a dream and dad shows up. And it was like it was like a real scene. You know, like we went out somewhere at a gathering. He pulls up in the car. He walks over to me. And I was telling him what's, what's been going on? And I'm like, what should I do? And he's like, go take care of your mother.

Like, he wasn't even telling me to take care of me. He said, go take care of your mother. And so once I got there, because like, I'm single. So it's not like I'm going with another woman, you know, to live with my mom. Right. So, but once I got there, I was like, she needs me. here just as much as I need her. You know, because she's in her, in her

70s now, they have a lot of land. Like, and all the stuff that dad used to do, you know, it's not her fault, but, like, I can tell it wasn't being done. You know, like, it was probably three years worth of leaves built up in the yard and stuff like that. So, you know, I

started doing all of that stuff. And now, but this was last year, and now she's got stage two breast cancer, you know, so it's like, so myself and my oldest daughter are there, And so she has all the support that she needs. Yeah. But just, but just when dad came to it, because I told her about that, when I got down there,

it's like, you know, I was like, I spoke to dad a couple days ago. And she says, I did too. Wow. I was like, get out of here. I was like, what's so? You know? It was like, I didn't know that ahead of time, and she didn't know that ahead of time. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. We both spoke to him on the same night. That is crazy. can't explain that and I don't discount the possibilities the way I look at it is uh okay so this is another category of some people put it on the typical dreams list and some people don't but visitation of a deceased loved one it's very common enough that it is a category of its own happens very frequently so there's two possible answers and I don't think neither one contradicts each other necessarily so the purely psychological answer you lost someone important to you you lost someone you lost a source of

you know, someone to look up to and someone to get advice from. Someone could always ask their opinion. They'd tell you someone that took care of business so you didn't have to in certain ways. You know, someone who looked after your mom. So it would be purely, it would be possible to understand that dream from a purely psychological perspective to say, of course you dreamed of your dad. You miss him. You want him there.

You maybe at that moment really wish you could ask him some advice on how to deal with some problems with your life and the answer that you generated for yourself was go take care of your mom and on the flip side of it uh it's entirely possible the psychic remnant these the the ghost of your of your father came to both you and and your mom and brought you together in a way to support each other that is also i can't prove that i can't tell you what to do with that so i leave it aside and go yeah i maybe sure um but in the if we were to merge the two and say in a metaphysical sense did the spirit of your father communicate with you yes whether it was literally his ghost or not this is what he would say this is who you knew him to be he would say you know the best thing for you is to take care

of your mom and something something in you probably knew that as well of like you're going to do better yourself by taking care of someone important to you take the you you you you're So one concept that's getting more popular online is that there's an obsessive self focus is indistinguishable from like painful anxiety. It's when you get out of your head and focus on a task on helping someone else that you're not obsessing over me, my problems, my feelings, my struggles, my worries and whatnot. You get put all that as so in a very practical sense, one piece of advice, like how I get through this tragedy, find someone else in your family who is also suffering to support.

Give your energy to them. They will give back to you. You will take care of each other. And through that process, you'll come out of it, uh, both better off for the experience. So I mean, yeah, if someone says they were visited by the, the, the spirit of their deceased relative, I'd say, yes, I believe it one way or the other, whether it's psychologically or literally, it's true. Uh, so anyway, that's, that's my two sense.

on that idea. Yeah, I mean, obviously that one was one of the strongest ones. Because usually, usually it's just like a memory. Like my dad loved, he loved his, his Captain Morgan. He loved dancing. So usually it's like a party scene

or whatever, but this one, this one, it just felt different. You know, like, because usually in my dreams, I'm not talking about things that I'm going through. You know, so just the fact that, like, we, we would having a conversation about what's actually going on in my life.

It just hit difference. And I was like, oh, my God, am I one of those crazy people? Well, and then the idea that you had, your mom had the same dream or a similar visitation on the same night. I can't explain that at all either. And I'm absolutely not going to say,

oh, that's nonsense. That's not, you know, it's not possible. I'm going to say, that's pretty weird. I love it. I love it that I can't explain it. Yeah, yeah. And that it worked. And that, okay, fine.

We could say that's literally your father. the spirit of God, send him, send an angel back, you know, to, to guide you to a better conclusion. Any of those interpretations, I think, are fantastic. I mean, certainly if it works out best and it is good for you, then it wasn't any kind of evil or malevolve. It wasn't a demon, you know, demons don't tell you. Now, take care of yourself. Be careful.

They're like, come on, come on, let's get into trouble. So it was definitely some positive force. Yes. Yes. My thoughts on all of that with, like, the demons, spirits. and all that stuff. Who knows? Yeah.

Who knows? You know, like, when my kids ask me, they're like, do you believe in God? I was like, the way everything is in the world, it's too perfectly balanced to just happen by chance. Yeah. Like I said, I can't prove it. That's pretty weird. It's pretty weird.

Yeah. I'm going to write up, I say this all the time. I'm going to write a book on that one day, but I do want to do, you know, a wizard's guide to angels and demons. and what I want to do is put it in the proper context of, you know, there's the spiritual side of things. Again, I tend to separate that out a little bit. Like, are there literally entities like physically? I don't think so.

I think it's something else. But what we can do is we can definitely invite angelic or demonic energies into us to channel them through us into the world. So what is it? You know, we've got pride and humility. So if you are being humble. You know, you're being open to new experience. You're being kind to other people. You're not assuming you're better than you are, which can get you into trouble.

That is an angelic presence or spirit that you choose to open yourself up to, to embody in the world. So you could, we don't normally say words like possessed by angels, but you can be possessed by an angelic spirit to, you know, render, render aid to someone. I was moved. My heart was moved to the suffering person. and I offered help and they were better off for it and I felt good about it. I'd say that's an angel. Now, the opposite side of that is, you know, you can invite into yourself demonic forces that you can say, I am open to causing pain and to revel in it.

And if you embrace that spirit and act it out in the world, you're possessed by a demon. And you're, so I think these things are both metaphysically true and physically realistically true. And we're just using these words and people go, okay, that's supernatural. Hocum. I'm like, well, think about how, this relates to my study of other, of other things people have called gods in the past. Like our experience, you know, we, uh, going about our day, we turn a corner and it's the most beautiful woman we've ever seen in our life. And we just have to talk to her. And we do. And she's charming. And she accepts our invite to coffee. And every word she speaks is

just like you're falling under a spell. And she's reciprocating. She's interested in you. And, you know, where did that, we're struck, we call it, we fall in love, as if some external entity or force has come into us or put that in us. We don't have, I chose that at that moment to become in love with her. We do, it's not rational. It's a, it's an experience we have that happens to us. Well, the Greek said, of course, that's Aphrodite. What else?

She said, Cupid and you, hey, love struck. there you go that's uh so we we've long externalized these forces and but but even then in the say more more Christian context of angels and demons specifically uh we've reconceptualized it a little bit to say there are those forces out there and you can tap into whichever one you want you can channel those forces through you by choice in a way that uh and sometimes involuntarily if you've been that's why we refer to that well this is a whole whole another conversation but the idea of people who are traumatized being having their spiritual defense is weakened and then they're it's easy for them to be moved by these forces that exist out there to invite the wrong ones in

because they don't know any better or to let them take over because it feels powerful to be to to distribute wrath into the world i'm going to destroy something so i feel better about myself not a good idea that's inviting demons in to possess you to act out there that will in the world anyway long story short that's that's my concept of that i'm going to write that book someday i swear probably yeah so there's a there's a quote about that where it says the hero and the villain are both motivated by pain. So to your point, you know, like the hero

will take Batman. Batman was motivated by his parents getting killed in front of him and he was hurt so he wants to end hurt in the world. Whereas the Joker took his pain and said, I've been hurt and I'm going to hurt the world now. Oh yeah, absolutely. And Batman and the Joker is another example of a archetypal theme of the hostile brothers. People that are, say, both similar enough that you can say, okay, I see the commonality.

Now let's look at how they act that out in the world. And yeah, you can say, I've been hurt so I will increase others' pain. I will lash out and spread the pain. Or I've been hurt. I don't want this to happen to anyone else. So I'm going to stop it as much as I possibly can. And that goes to it's Thor and Loki. It's Can and Abel.

It's all these different stories. We go back to this theme because we want to see, you know, what, it's like we're asking ourselves, what does it mean to be a good person, to do good in the world? And so we look at examples of what we like what Batman does, even though he's a little morally gray sometimes. And we don't like what the Joker does. We don't like innocent people being hurt. We feel good about innocent people being saved from harm. And we feel, it's necessary for the balance.

that, you know, the world is out of balance if there are no heroes fighting evil. And in some ways, it's out of balance if there are no villains, which is a strange thing to consider that we need villains. Like, you don't want to make them, and I don't want to be one, but without obstacles to overcome. Now, it might be better if the villain was nature. In a way, it's set up to be that way. Like, it doesn't have to be another person. There's plenty of natural evil in the world we can work to overcome or endure in different ways.

So, yeah, don't anyone go become. the Joker on purpose. It's probably a bad idea. Bad for you, bad for other people. This is, I am a wizard. This is medical advice. Don't be evil. There you.

Spirit, metaphysical medical advice. Well, we've been going for about an hour. Do you want to jump into your dream thing? I don't want to short you on the experience. You ready for that? Yeah. Okay. Good deal.

Let me change my note here because I had, I would just scratch that out. And then the cat, you're going to have, have to move buddy yeah I know he doesn't want to move he's going to climb back on me again we got um about 59 minutes there we go okay so um as per my usual process i'm gonna shut up and listen a friend uh robert's gonna tell us his dream and then we'll go through it again and see if we can figure out what's going on so i am ready when you are benjamin the dream wizard wants to help you here's the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams

Every episode of his dreamscapes program features real dreamers gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreamscape's episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience, and much, much more. To join the wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms, and through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration

into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. Yeah, I mean, so I'm just going to expand on the one I started telling you earlier. Sure. where the scene was, I wasn't really in the woods. It was almost like in a cave, some type of covered thing or other.

It was mostly dark. There was some light. And I don't know exactly the animal that was chasing me, but something with four legs and a tail was chasing me. I don't know if it was a tiger or some type of big cat, which is ironic because I like the big cats. So I don't know why it was coming to get me. but I remember I was I was just running running and it felt real like it felt intense like when I woke up I was sweating

it felt very very intense and as it's I reached the edge I mean the end of the cave I guess it was closed off that's like I turn around and I saw it coming at me and then I forced myself up like before before I got to me but when I tell you like it was it was intense my heart was pounding I was sweating, and I don't know what brought that on, but it was intense. Probably one of the most intense dreams I've had. I don't even know how long it lasted, but it felt like an eternity when this thing was chasing me. Oh, yeah, for sure. And it's a very common experience, too, that a particular dream could be so intense that we

force ourselves awake. Sometimes we can't, but very often if that anxiety response, like you said, you woke up sweating, If there was some physiological response to this internal turmoil, then that'll pop us out of it sometimes. So this was one instance of this generally recurring trend we were talking about earlier. Yes. Gotcha. Gotcha. And so you were the beginning of the story, you're in a kind of a cave or at least some kind of a covered or enclosed space.

It definitely felt, so to speak, indoors, but not in a kind of building indoors, manner. Right. So a more natural enclosed space. This is where I start going with, I do what I call counterfactuals. Like, what was it not? And I mentioned it was not a suburban or urban building. That would be maybe a different kind of a, a lot of times our brains divide things

from the natural world, the manmade stuff. So you're definitely looking at natural stuff. If it was manmade, we might go down a direction. Okay, okay, who is causing you. problems. And with a more natural setting, what it suggests to me is the idea of, you know, that these problems are occurring. It's not anyone's fault. In a way, it's almost that natural evil problem of like, I'm in a circumstance that, you know, I can't pin it on anyone in particular or it's so distributed amongst multiple people that's really it's not any, it's not the fault

of any one of them. Like, I could deal with one problem at a time, but not five. So, so there's, there's kind of more of a natural, natural feel to it that this represents. by the, I would say, the naturalness of the cave. And it's interesting that a cave comes to mind, too. But then you're not too sure about it. It's like it's just indistinct enough that you can't, you don't know, they don't have a good grip on the lay of the land, so to speak.

I was kind of running for my life. That too, that too, yeah. Wasn't really taken into scenery. No, that is true as well, then. That's a good thing. So I love this too. I say something and you're like, wait a minute, I got something better. And that's a good point too.

It's like there's, what do we focus on? Do we focus on the fact that you couldn't really see your surroundings very well and does that have meaning or is that easily explained by the idea of, look, I was too busy fighting, running to pay that much attention to what was going on. But that might be relevant as well that you may be representing to yourself in this instance the idea that I'm fighting so hard to stay alive, just I'm struggling so hard that I can't really get a grip on my surroundings. I can't really see everything as well as I'd like because I don't have the spare bandwidth

mental energy to do that. So there might, there's definitely something in the idea of that it wasn't a brightly lit cave. There weren't torches everywhere. Light very often represents the ability to see clearly. And that can be seeing clearly physically of like I'm not blind, but also seen clearly mentally, like I have a good grasp on what I'm looking at.

Yeah, so the idea of darkness in a cave, I would kind of wrap it up in a bow and say it's the idea of, I'm not really clear on where I'm at or what's happening around me. I have a very limited view of the circle. Like the situation is so big, I've grasped at all. I can't see it all.

So there's got to be something. But then again, it's enclosed. You weren't running through the woods. outdoors. So there's, um, with the cave thing is like, it can go two different directions on that. It's a very enclosed, tight space. It's a space where you've got natural corridors and dead ends. And the forest is a little more. I can run in any direction. I can run up a tree. I can jump off a cliff into the, into the water, maybe escape. But in a cave, it's a, there's also that extra layer of danger of like, I don't know where I'm going. I can hardly see. I can.

I mean, there's so many elements working against you. And all of that, just like, so I was in a cave in the dark. Yeah, but that's all good stuff too. So that would probably say, and this is where we could stop and check in with you as well and say, in your experience of some of the struggles you were dealing with, did it feel like being in a dark cave and not knowing the way out? And like, you know, in that way. Just necessarily, see now that I'm listening to you, right?

Now that I'm listening to you, I'm wondering, I wonder if that's, success chasing me because I've been struggling for a few years. You know, like I said, since 2020 tanked my gym. So the last five years I've been like just climbing out of a hole. And now I'm sitting on a million dollar project. So now that the book is done, the next step is speaking gigs. And I'm going to be touring around going to colleges and universities, talking to college, juniors and seniors.

about interviewing skills. Because again, it goes back to that overcoming self-self doubt. So I'm going to zero in on that demographic. And it's almost like, I can't, I don't think I was financially stable since 20, probably 18. But the last time I was like in a good place, you know, making five figures a month. I was in a good place. And lately, well, I told you last year, I mean, 2022, I went almost the entire year without

getting paid. Like it was, it was tough. So I was in such a bad spot, but now I'm set up like the next six months should do very, very well. And I just wonder if, like, how I started this, I told you when my back is up against the wall, I do my best. And so I've never in a long time operated out of a place of prosperity. So like I wonder if that's playing a role. Well, this is good to clarify too. So I may have had the wrong conception of the timeframe for this dream.

this particular dream about this particular space and this particular animal. When did this happen relatively recently? Probably about eight months ago. Okay. Less than that, maybe five, maybe five months ago, because I was on the tail end of finishing up my book then. Okay. Oh, okay.

That might be related. I'm just going to put it down. Well, um, the cluster of dreams of this kind. that you had in the past. How long was that ago? Oh, God. Pretty much since COVID.

It's been... Throughout that whole struggle period. These all happened before that or those started with the COVID thing a few years back? Like, when would you say those? It would happen. Yeah, it would happen a little a little bit because, like, I got out of a 13-year relationship in 2017.

So, like, it started there because, you know, we were together for 13 years and we have three kids. Yeah, oh, yeah. I was like knowing that, you know, I was going to move on from her and split, split the kids up, you know, there was a lot of feelings of anxiousness, you know, during that time. So I think it really ramped up then, and then COVID was just, just put it over the top. Gotcha. And then when would you say they decreased in frequency? How long ago?

Once I moved back home. And what year was that? Sorry? That was last year. Okay. Yes. Yeah. February of 2017.

So these dreams were with you for almost of, you know, five or six year period. And then, and then they dropped off for maybe about a half a year. And then they came back maybe about a half a year ago. And that was the time period during which you were finishing your book. And then, and then the idea that, you know, and it's not irrelevant that these ideas pop into people saying, like, I wonder. Suddenly it makes me think, am I worried about success? that can be success can be a dangerous animal as well uh now it's it's a it's one we in some ways want to get caught by but simultaneously we don't because you know what if uh

what if this is really great and it changes me what if it's not really great it's what I think I want you know it's a what is it um ancient ancient curse may you get everything you think you want that kind of a thing uh because sometimes it's akin to be careful what you wish for you know that that kind of a thing Um, yes. And sometimes we can have self doubts of like, do I really deserve this? Is this really genuine? Like number one,

am I a good enough person that deserves good things to happen? A lot of us have doubts about that. But also, you know, am I really, am I really up to the challenge? Like, let's say I'm tremendously successful and people start listening to me. Like, now what do I do? That's a, that's a whole new set of problems that can feel equally dangerous. Because like, if you get into a situation, you can't handle and then you fail. I mean, there's a lot of things we say to people, at least you tried.

Hey, it was useful experience. You picked yourself up again. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck. That doesn't mean it isn't going to be painful. It doesn't mean losing everything or being publicly embarrassed isn't a problem. So yeah, it could be the idea of being caught with or caught by success to a point where like, I don't know what this is going to do to me. I don't know what this animal is capable of, um, especially when I can't really.

And this one. So I thought this was an older dream and I was looking at this through that chaos time. frame. Now you are heading into a new challenging set of chaos in a way. It's like being on the road is unpredictable. It's stressful. Um, you know, teaching. You know, how it's going to go on at each individual event. How are the kids going to respond or, um, you know, am I going to be on my game for that day? So many, so many layers and levels to this stuff. Um, but so, okay. So if we're looking at this in the time frame of the, uh, fin, your book and looking forward to possibly, you know, the other thing that, so to split it in two past is like, if the animal is success and it catches you, there's still an element of failure in there. I mentioned that a minute ago, too. It's like you're probably closer now to having strategized or worked through what it's actually going to look like to be engaged in these activities coming up. Is that accurate to say? You've started making more concrete plans.

Um, so maybe when this dream came back to you, it's like you're, you're in a dark, unknown space being chased by danger, uh, yet again, because you haven't fully conceptualized what this experience is going to look like moving forward. And then maybe the dream goes away because you start laying out concrete plans. That's the specific hotel. That's my plan for how to get there on time. Here's my prepared material, uh, for the speech. And here's how I plan to engage with questions afterwards.

And then you start with each one of those little elements in the place, start putting up torches in the cave. And then you can see the walls and you know where the exit is. And it's not scary anymore. Now you know, you know, it's exposed to the light of day. But for this one, there was very little description of the path you took. What was the feeling of running through there? It was, I'm lost. I'm panicked because I don't know which path.

take or when it's going to end or when the next twist and turn is. But I don't know if you could say a little bit more about the experience of running from the animal in the cave. Yeah. Yeah. So it was it was during the day like there was some like holes in the top. So I could say somewhat. So it was definitely during the day and trying to remember.

That's okay. Like there weren't. Yeah. It's like there weren't. A lot of corridors put it that way. Like, it was kind of like just one. It kind of twisted a little until it got to the end. Okay.

So, like, I wasn't like consciously turning left, turning right. I was just following it, following it around to the end. And then, like I said, I got there. I turned around. I saw whatever was coming at me and then I woke up. Gotcha. This is fascinating, too. Slight tangent.

I've been producing AI music, which you should, Look at my AI play. I think you might love something. I think it's all fantastic. I don't even know. But one of them I just did recently was the, I think it's Wordsworth poem or Longfellow. Was it H.W. Longfellow?

I don't remember which. It was called The Tiger. Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright in the Forests of the Night, that old poem. I now put it to music. I'm doing all this poetry. Anyway, long story short. Synchronicity-wise,

I just released a piece of music called The Tiger. And now you bring me a dream featuring a large cat. And actually the picture on it is a kind of red and yellowish looking tiger, but he's emerging from the darkness. Like you just got close enough to you. You can start to see him and he looks taste looking at you. Like so I just created an album cover for this piece of music that is reminiscent of your dream. I can't explain that. We're talking about this now after I just, I just made that.

That just happened like two days ago. Weird. Weird. I love it, though. I love it, though. So you said a couple interesting things there. One of them was, uh, you had the distinct impression.

It was the daytime and you knew that because there were holes that let some light in, which is very interesting too. So we look at the dichotomy, again, not getting into the dream book thing, but there's broad associations that people have with night and day. And definitely as I was saying, light is associated with illumination, like the revealing of things, the clear sight and understanding. So you, you weren't completely in the dark trying to feel your way. There were, there was natural light coming in that was at least giving you the idea of,

here's where you're at, here's where you're going. You can, you can navigate the space, but it was very restricted. They very limited. There's little holes, just, just pinpricks in the veil of night, that kind of thing, to let a little light shine in. What was I going to say about all that? Maybe that was it. Maybe it's just that fascinating idea that, you know, you didn't,

imagine it was taking place in complete darkness where you were overwhelmed. At least there was, like, in some way, the word that comes to my mind is hope. I don't know if that resonates with you or some variation of that idea, maybe some synonym. I don't know. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least, what is it? It's like the, um, even in the, even in the dark of night, the stars shine, that kind of a thing. Uh, And light isn't always good. I mean, you're out in the desert and it's 110 degrees in the direct sun and you're dehydrated. Yeah, light isn't always good either.

So it depends on the context as well. But for this one, yeah, you were getting like, you weren't, you know, what am I trying to say? You weren't, you weren't showing yourself a representation of hopelessness. That's what it was. It was more like it. So this is a danger, but there's, there's something you can see. There's at least pieces of the puzzle there that are, that will. that got you to the dead end.

And the idea that it was only one path, that you weren't really choosing to turn, oh, I turn left or right. I don't know which way to go, but it, but then it, but the one path ended in a dead end where this thing was going to catch up to you. So there was, there's a feeling of, I can, I can only avoid this for so long and then I'm going to have to deal with it.

It's going to catch up to me. A lot of these being chased by the boogeyman is the inevitability of certain consequences in a way or or circumstances that are going to I'm going to have to confront that eventually I'm going to have to deal with it there's going to come a time where I can't run anymore and uh you know and maybe in the context of this dream I don't even know where I'm running too I just feel like I'm running away this is something's dangerous and it's coming coming for me and then there's the interesting idea of why a big cat why not a dragon why not a hundred of the why not a snake Why not a hundred other things?

And you say you actually like big cats generally. We have a positive association with them. I have a big, big banner of a lion. I have a poster of a snow leopard. And I have my dad's old framed, um, tiger. Oh, yeah. So it's like, I love the big cats. Well, and you, so you've got the whole gym thing going on.

There's a long martial arts history of like respect for the powerful creatures of nature. and to imitate them in martial art style, but also just look up from like, you know, you can look at, you know, you can put up, you're in a gym, or whatever, you can put up a picture of Mike Tyson and say, yeah, look at that. You'd be like him. We can put a picture of a lion and go,

that lion would eat Mike Tyson alive, more powerful. Yeah, pick your goal. What do you want to be? What do you want to embody? What spirit do you want to invite into you, you know, as we were talking about earlier? No, what's funny, too, is I'm a Leo, so my zodiac sign is a lion.

A Chinese zodiac. I'm a tiger. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah, that's another, I can't, secrecy. Can't explain that either. Why you?

And then, okay, so all of these generally positive experiences or associations with big cats that what was your feeling right at the end when you realized I'm trapped and you turn around to face it? Were you terrified or was it, was there a different, did you have a connection? What was that experience? You were terrified, okay. That was definitely terrified. Because sometimes you get to the end of these.

Well, no, that's right. That's a stupid question. I completely forgot. You woke yourself up sweating. Of course. Yeah. Get me out of here. Yeah.

And, you know, going with the idea that it popped out of you, like, afraid of success is like, we can be, you know, do I really want this? Let's say I'm good at this. Is this what I really want? So you can sometimes people are trapped by success. This happens with a lot of, what is it? you know what people doing podcasts and stuff online there are at least there are way more accusations of audience capture than there are instances of audience capture some people well you're just a grifter you're just audience you're just audience you tell people what they want to hear

but that actually does become a problem in a business model uh like let's say you're in this last election if you got really famous or rich or whatever giving a particular point of view and then that point of view is no longer embraced or rewarded by the audience, your business goes under. Like, I've lost my audience. They're gone. So what do you do? Do you pander to keep people happy, to keep the income coming in? Or do you say, I guess this business is over.

Or do you do like a pivot and say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go a different direction and see if I can build a new audience that the old audience is going to go away. You're going to have to build it back up again. So there's, what is it? What am I trying to get to? I'm trying to get to the idea of like there's a lot. lot of people who avoid responsibility because they're afraid of failure. And that means they avoid success because they're afraid of failure. They won't take things upon them. So they won't put

obligations on themselves to accomplish anything because what if I fail? It's easier to just never try. So for you, in a sense, it seems like you're dealing with something like that of like, is this really worth it? Is, am I going to get what I want? Am I going to be overwhelmed by have responsibilities and and you know I'm gonna I'm gonna try to put up put up weight and I'm gonna fail and no one's gonna be there to spot me something like that I don't know all I'm gonna stop right there all these things I'm saying let's get your feedback no what it is I think you may hit hit the nail on the head there because like as I mentioned earlier you know COVID ransacked my fitness business and then I had and I had the issues last year when

we were supposed to be joining businesses I really don't think I want the the business part of business. Oh, yeah. I almost, I almost think I would rather, I would rather, like, pay someone a percentage and deal with all of the businessy stuff. Like, I want nothing to do with it. Like, I'll talk all day long, all day long. I told you, you're my third show today.

Oh, yeah. In addition to teaching classes, you know, and I have multiple shows. Like, I've only been on Podmatch for two weeks, and I got 16 bookings. in the two weeks. Very cool. So like that part I want to do. I really think I just want no part of the business aspect again. Like I don't like it.

And yeah, I wonder if that's what's driving. Because that, I think that's the part of this that scares me. Yeah. If that feels right. I mean, there's there is the, I'm with you. I'm the talent. I don't want to deal with the paperwork. Fuck that.

Now I do because I have to, but I don't enjoy any of it. I don't want to do that stuff. I don't want to. Anyway, anyway, no, I'm exactly with you on that. And there is a part of being caught with success that it comes with a lot of, a lot of baggage,

a lot of shit you don't want to deal with maybe. That's like, do I really want this? How, how, so if we're not looking at it as life destroying, there's other layers of damage that can be done to us. By taking the good with the bad.

You know, if I pursue this path, there's going to be things I don't want to deal with. that are also going to catch me and how threatening do those feel to me? Like how miserable would my life be if I get bogged down in paperwork in addition to trying to do all the talking that really that's my passion? Can I outsource this maybe? Is a great question? Have you considered that before?

Or is that something that only came to you recently or even just today? Man, maybe I should outsource this or hire a manager or something and give him a cut. Well, yeah, yeah, sort of. I mean, kind of like this gym here. It's like I didn't reopen my own gym. Like, I'm managing another gym. Yeah, yeah. For that same exact reason.

Like, I just, oh, no. We got lost. That's okay. It's 120. Yeah, I don't know why. Welcome back. No worries. Technical difficulties happen all the time.

I was like, oh, no, did the cat, you know, spill coffee on the router or something? That happens. Yeah, it just said, you're in the green room. I was like, um, okay. Yep. No, no worries. you can just pick up, I'll cut, cut that, you can pick up where you left off, if you remember.

Yeah, so, like, with this gym, like, I knew I wanted to stay into fitness. Actually, no, I can't even say that, because when I first got back to my mom's, I was actually going to pivot into consulting. So, like, I had joined, joined the program. I said, you know, I'll just, I'll just go in and fix other gyms and help people with marketing and branding, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I got three weeks into it.

And I was like, I don't think I want to do this full. time. You know, like, yeah, it pays very well. But I was like, I don't think I want to do this. So I went up to my, to where I went to high school to see if they, if they, if I could be of use there on the track team. I was going to just go up there and just volunteer, volunteer coach. But once I started back with the athletes, it relit my fire for fitness.

And so I was like, all right, I want to get back into it. I was like, but I want to find, find a place where I can train my style. but I don't have to deal with any of the back end stuff. And so I came across the owner here and we got to talk in. And I slowly started in here. But my very first day, I knew it was like 90 days. I'm going to be running this joint. And so I just started slowly making changes, you know, organized things,

started sprinkling my style into the style that they were used to. And then I almost called it to a take because I started here in July of last year. And by October, the owner was like, you know what? it's yours. He's like, just do whatever you got to do in there. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, great. So, like, if I could somehow get that situation with this,

just pay someone else to do, because I'm not greedy. Like, I don't need a ton of money to survive. So if I start getting, you know, $10,000 speaking gigs, which is not unheard of in the speaking industry, it's not unheard of at all. There's people like Tony Robbins

who get like $150, $200K per speech. I would have no problem splitting it with somebody else to take all of that headache. I mean, I'm happy with $5,000 for one hour. You know what I mean? I'm very happy with that. That's a pretty good hourly rate, yes. Exactly. So in a perfect world, that's what I would like.

But I know I'm going to have to do some of the stuff. I just don't want to do all of it. No, no, for sure. And a thought occurred to me while you were saying all that is there's another. So what is the danger of a large animal? catching us, it is that we will be, you know, torn, torn apart, but consumed. It's going to, that idea of being consumed by this animal, this dangerous animal, struck me as like, sometimes if we dedicate our lives to moving in a particular direction,

especially if we commit to a specific path, path that requires specific behaviors, we can become consumed by the endeavor itself. So there's, there may be something there of like, you know, something's chasing me. that is going to catch me and it's the kind of a thing that eats me. So, and that can be success that in the idea that it's, you know, you end up focused.

And also this is all coming together too with the idea of a narrow space. Like there's only one way to get where you're going. And when you get there, it's, it's the destination. It's the end. It's the moment. It's the place where the consuming thing catches you and you become consumed by it.

And yeah. Sometimes if you're doubting a path or if you're sudden, doubting a path is a good way. So if you're having second thoughts in terms of like, do I really want this? And then you might have a dream that imagines, well, what if this thing that I'm not sure I want catches up to me when I don't want it to? I want to get away from it, but it catches me anyway.

Or I put myself in a position where I can't get away. Now I'm trapped and this thing is going to happen to me, whether I like it or not. I mean, at that moment, you, and it's interesting, what if we, conceptualized some people seem to be able to wake themselves up and some people not what's the difference i don't know but we could conceptualize it in your case here that the ability to wake you up wake yourself up could mean i can pull the rip cord on all this if i want to i don't have to go down this path i get to choose and maybe it's worth it maybe you're like okay eat me let's let's let's let's let this whole process consume me and i will become one with the tiger in a way and move forward that way um

No, no, I don't know. I just threw that. That just occurred to me. I just go with whatever pops into my head. I'll stop there for a second. I don't know if that makes sense to you? Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting.

It's like I wonder, I wonder too, as you know, I've gotten burnt twice before. So, like, I wonder if that fear is still lingering. Yeah. You know, so like that fear of trust. I was trying to get my daughter to do it with me, but she doesn't want to. I was like, if I got to pay somebody, I'd rather keep. it in the family. Me too.

Yeah, that's a great way to do it. Make more sense. You know, keep it in the family. And, but she doesn't want, she just doesn't want to do it.

So, okay. All right. I mean, can't make you do it. That's true. She's got to have a passion for it. She's got to say, oh yeah,

that sounds great. I totally know. She's got to be on board. Can't really like talk her into it. That's not. Yeah. It's like, I'm way too trusting.

That's, that's my problem. And that's how I got burned twice. Yeah. I don't know way too trusting. And I blame myself. Like, I don't blame them. I mean, it's up to me, you know, to make sure that I have everything I need and writing and all that.

It's like going back to what I mentioned before about how we were supposed to merge our businesses. Like, we never had that written down anywhere. So now, now I'm confronting him. And he's like, oh, I never said that. Like, what are you talking about? I said, I haven't built my business in 10 months. It's like 10 months. I was like, who in that right mind?

would agree to that. Yeah. I would agree. All right, I'm going to build your business, not build mine. I'm still going to pay rent and you're not going to pay me. Who would agree to that? I was like, hey, you think I just made that up? It's like I freaking tanked my entire livelihood off the trust that we're going to merge our businesses.

Oh, yeah. So I wonder if that in itself is playing a role too because of that fear that I'm going to have to trust somebody. Definitely. I mean, I think if it occurred to you, that's where we're like pulling out aspects of the tiger, so to speak, like, what is this thing actually represent? Why was it encapsulated in this particular form and can have multiple layers of meaning? I think that's a good one too. It's like, you know, what happens when, um, okay, put it in the context specifically of, I'm in the process. I'm doing the thing. What happens if a problem catches up to me? And it's a problem I'm familiar with and a problem that's I've put it in the body of a strong overpower. powering creature so that if this problem catches up to me, it's going to be a problem. It's not like I can, you weren't being chased by a mouse. Yeah. You could go, well, I don't really like mice. They're kind of icky.

But if it catches me, it's no big deal. I can stomp on it. I can ignore it. I can get up on a stool. What a you put it in something like a very powerful creature. Yeah, there's a good chance that is a layer of it as well. And it's, you know, at the very least, it's worth considering. What do we, what do we accomplish by going through these dreams?

I mean, maybe we get an answer. we explain the symbols. We start looking ultimately at your life, your circumstance, like what are your current struggles and how does the dream kind of pull that out to a place where you can go, let me conceptualize and express specific ideas about where I'm at right now that help me understand it better and hopefully help me better predict and anticipate and account for what I'm going to face moving forward. So yeah, that's, I mean, if we ended this with just.

just you saying, you know, there's an issue with being burned twice before and I'm going to have to trust someone again. How do I deal that? And now you're focused. You have a new mission. What does it look like to find someone trustworthy? How do I ensure that you're going to, you know, probably going to need to get, I don't like contracts either. Like you and you and me, if you appear on some podcast, they're going to send you a thing. You're going to sign a release, giving them permission to use your likeness and your image. We didn't do any of that. We're just two people talking about dreams. Also, I don't care. Okay. Two things with that.

I don't care because if you told me to not to release this, I don't. You told me to take it down for any reason or no reason at all. It's gone. I am, I'm the handshake guy. I'm not interested in, this is not, what do I call it? It's not the Jerry Springer show. I'm not interested in embarrassing anyone or, or, or, you know, exploiting anyone. That's not my thing.

But in the business world, contracts are a thing. And you spell it out. So for me, I don't like contracts because it feels like I don't trust you. And I want a handshake deal. I would rather have that trust. But sometimes you've got to spell it out. So you know what you're asking. They know what you're asking for and you know what you're going to get.

And then there's no surprises. So one thing you might have to get used to that I would have to get used to as well is there's going to have to be some contracts. And it doesn't mean you don't trust them. It's just how business is done. That might be a part of it. Am I correct in assuming you're kind of like me? You're not really a contract guy. I don't want to do the paperwork.

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Because I'm the type, if I say something, that's what, that's what you're going to get from me. And it's like, I just have to realize that not everybody in the world is like that. It's like you come in and you tell me, this is what we're going to do. Then the time comes to do it. Oh, I never said that.

Like, what are you talking about? I was like, why on earth would I agree to that? Like, that doesn't even make an ounce of sense. Like, I have to be the dumbest guy on earth to agree to that plan. And like if I wasn't going to get any benefit whatsoever. It's like you're getting your business run. You have no payroll. That was like the only one working there.

So you have no payroll in the whole gym because you're not paying me. And I'm supposed to pay you rent. Yeah. Yeah. It also, it's something that just doesn't make sense to me because if I promise to do something, I mean, I might forget. I might be a flake. That happens all the time. I promise to show up.

I'm like, oh, God, damn it. I meant to. What I don't do is that only promises. I never intend to keep. Not just like a liar, scammer. This is not me. So I have a hard time thinking like that or assuming that other people might be like that

or taking precautions to ensure I don't get taken advantage of it in that way. Because I can't imagine getting, I can't imagine being that guy going, I never said that. Well, I know I did and I'm not going to lie about it. Why would I do that? But people do.

So it's one of those things. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what to do with that either. I just minimize my content. with people usually. I talk to folks like on the internet. That's all I do. People were telling me, oh, you should, you should sue him

and you should this, like, why? You got nothing. Why? Like bringing that unnecessary drama because I went through that with business partners, 2017 and 2018. It was like a year and a half. The lawyers dragged these things out and it was just unnecessary. Like, it's not worth it.

It's not worth it. Like, he wants my equipment. He can keep it. He can keep it. I shut that chapter. and I just started focusing on opportunities. Like I said, started coaching, came here, I have a car again, and I have a roof over my head. You know, my daughter's doing well down there as well. It's like I have no reason to look back at that chapter.

It's like why. It's not going to serve anything. That's true. Yeah, you take the lessons you can learn from a bad experience to help, hopefully help make sure it never happens again, but then don't dwell on it. Yeah, that's getting back to that idea of that obsessive self-focused being, you know, indistinguishable from from misery basically.

Like you got to get you got to put your energy into something. If you just put it into obsessing over yourself, yeah, you're going to be miserable, of course, especially obsessing over all the bad things that ever happened to you. Man, there's enough.

There's plenty of them. That's not, it's not, it's not, it's not getting anything done, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, one guy asked me, he's like,

so you let him win? Oh, right. What the hell did he win? That's that pride response. What did he win? Yeah. What did he win? It's like,

he kept me in a financial prison for almost a year. year. So what do I, could I left some equipment behind this? Like, he lost the best manager he's probably ever had. As I said, we did more. We did more memberships in April when I left in February in that time period than the previous four years combined. Wow.

Combined. And my thought was, why on earth would he let me go? Right? That didn't make any. All you had to do, it just. start paying me and I'd probably still be there. And if you just paid me, that was it. It's like, you know, with the membership coming in, with the members,

raving about how the, how they're glad I'm there because, you know, there's someone there now. I clean the place top to bottom. You know, and I interact, and I was interacting with all of the members, getting to know their names and stuff. Like, I've been going to Planet Fitness for three years. There's only one guy who actually calls me by my name because I worked with him like 20 years ago. He was like, oh, well, you're out post? I was like, yeah. Everyone else.

They're just like, hi, have a good workout. Hi, have a good workout. Oh, yeah. Like, there's no interaction. There's no, there's no community. So, like, we built a whole community there. And that's my thought process. Like, if I was working with you and I tripled your business,

when did you think I'd be an asset? Absolutely. Right. You would think. So, right, any which way, all of that had to happen anyway to get me, back with mom because I probably would have never moved there on my own. And she's stubborn herself. So she wouldn't have asked for help either.

So it was kind of like we were thrust back together. Oh, yeah. Well, there's two separate ideas there. One of working backwards. One of them is I, there have been times in my life where I'm like, oh, my God, this is a disaster. And then I hang on just a little bit longer or I have to put some effort into a new endeavor. And then my life is better than it ever was before.

I'm like, was that such a, was that such a, Was that such a bad thing? Well, you know, it wasn't pleasant. I didn't like it. It was a lot of pain and maybe, uh, but was it such a, was it a bad thing that that disaster happened? I don't know. Um, but the other, the other thing too was, uh, was it going back to shit.

Like I might have lost it. Uh, business partnership. Shit. That was an idea. Get it when it happens. I know. It was a good one too. It was genius.

Uh, maybe I, maybe I'm not going to get it back. No, I think it's gone. that's fine um well in terms of your dream are there more elements to it did did any new details come on you're like well what about this or or are there any of the themes you wanted to analyze a little more the specific events just any other questions no no i think i think we nailed it your opinion is the only one that matters for sure yeah i don't know that's i'm i'm here for the Right. I mean, I feel like we've got some pretty good discussion around it, which is usually what it is. We want an answer. We want to describe it, but we want to get that discussion going about what does this mean? How do I feel about this? Why did I choose these symbols to show myself in that regard?

Which again, that is the psychological side of things. There's also the spooky woo side of things of like, why did, you know, like the Greeks used to say dreams were sent by the gods. And not only that, they would say, you know, that Zeus sent Oneros, the god of dreams. He sent him to you in this form to express this thing to influence your decisions. But anyway, that's what it feels like to. And that's not a bad way to conceptualize it either because we've got this stuff bubbles up from the subconscious and we're like, where to come from? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. But it's fascinating that we can actually make use of it.

that it's something purposeful, uh, that, you know, usually has some, some reward to figuring it out. So I'm always glad to, glad to help with that.

Well, it's stuff. Yeah. I think we had a, I think we had a great shot. If you feel satisfied with it, we'll, uh,

we'll wrap it up. Yeah, I do. All right. Sounds good. And then I'm glad I did this. Well, thank you.

I'm glad you showed up, uh, you know, I'm glad I was able to be of, see, that's what I do is, you know, speaking of opening ourselves to angelic or demonic forces.

I open myself to the spirit of being help, benefit being helpful to someone. So I don't take any credit. It's like the, uh, what the football players get down on one knee and point up at the sky after a touchdown. It's like, it's not me. You know, talent on loan from, from a higher power is the way I like to look at. Well, that keeps the pride small too of like, none of this is me. I didn't do this. I'm just, I am merely a vessel. That sounds pretentious, but no, for literally, I think, I think of myself that way. So, so I don't get a big head about any of this stuff. Long story short. Now we're going to move the cat because I can't read my paper. He doesn't want to move. Look, he's such a rat.

dog. He's like, what, Dad, what are you doing? He's like, hey, it was comfortable. I know. He's trying to lay back out on it again. I knew. Give me a minute. I know it's all warm. He's warmed up the paper. He doesn't want to move. Okay, so I'll say to the audience here. This has been our friend Robert B. Foster from Rhode Island. He is an author, speaker, and the host of the podcast, Shut Up and Grind. He also, you can find his book at shut up and grindbook.com.

For my part, would you kindly like, share, and subscribe? Always need more volunteer dreamers. I play video games 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific, most days Monday through Friday. I'll be playing again tonight. No, no, not tonight because I usually release these on Saturdays. Join me on Monday. Anyway, this episode brought to you in part by ABC Book 14 Dreams in Homer and Greek tragedy, speaking of Zeus, and that's where I get a lot of that information. I read these old books. All this and more, of course, at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com and head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard. Locals.com join the community there. It's attached to my Rumble account. Free to join.

That is enough out of me. Robert, thank you for being here. It has been an interesting and entertaining chat. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. And everybody out there, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.