Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 189: Apocalyptic Opportunity

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Sadhu Dah ~ https://www.thesadhudah.com/

Greetings, friends, and welcome back to a very laryngitis-filled episode of dreamscapes. Today, our guest streamer is Sadi, out of Thailand, and that is actually relevant to what's going on here today. Usually it's not, you know, people just live wherever, but he is a professor of Southeast Asian occult history and practice, and as the Thai people would say, he is an Ajarne, which is roughly a equivalent or similar to Sensei and Japanese for those fellow anime buffs out there. Okay, we're going to get right back to him in two seconds. Would you kindly like, share, and subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers. As you can see, there's, you know, sometimes there's a week or two in between.

I don't always have a guest. I want to talk to you. You don't have to be anybody. You don't have to have a website or a product to sell or anything. Oh, speaking to which I forgot, you can find him at the saduda.com. Link in the description below. of course, this is already going on way too long. I also play video games Monday through Friday, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific on Rumble, YouTube, and X.

This episode brought to you in part by ABC Book 4, which is O'Neuro Chronology of Volume 2, the second of my anthology trilogy, collecting shorter works of historical dream literature. I did not want to leave out of my catalog that they weren't long enough to make a whole book, so we got to get an anthology. You can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this very podcast. There's a media thing where I've been on other people's stuff. There's a merch shop.

It's all kinds of cool things in encyclopedia. I need to update that, but soon enough. And if you would also head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard. Dot locals.com. It's attached to my Rumble account. It's free to join, just building a community of Dreamers there. That is probably the best place to reach out to me. Just join up for free.

and send me a message. So that is more than enough out of me. Back to Sadu, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Pleasure. Thanks for putting up with my raspy voice, too. We're joking about it off. We always talk off camera before I get to, you know, before we start the recording.

And of course, they tell people, I do not record without permission. I do not release recordings without permission after we're done talking. So that's a very important thing for everyone out there to know. It's not the Jerry Springer show. I'm not looking to embarrass anybody. We're just trying to get good answers for you. and we'll, you know, we'll protect your identity

and any personal information you don't want recorded. So I had a whole point that tangent to, on that as we were talking beforehand. Man, it's gone. Go on. My voice was that it?

I don't know. I was completely incapable of speaking last. We were talking about accents. That's what it was. I was doing bad, bad impressions of, I don't know, Southern speaking folk, something like that. I should do,

I should do station ID or, what is it? You know, I should do my own, bumpers or while I've got this voice. It's not going to sound like me at all. If I, anyway, we're not here to talk about me. We're talking about you.

And part of what we got into beforehand is that not only are you, you know, studying at these, these topics, you are living in the region of the world where these occult practices originate. So we could just start there. I mean,

maybe what brought you to that or how did you get interested in it or what does that entail? what you do. It's wide open for anything. Yeah. So, you know, as far as, you know, the origin story itself, you know, that's, it's, it's been done to death. I've done that on, you know, God, at this point, it's, it's been a hundred different, you know, podcast that I've been on, you know. So I like to talk about what's more relevant in regards of what I'm doing now and what's going on with my life. Absolutely.

So perfect example. was, you know, today, I went on about a five and a half, six hour round trip, you know, tore on the back of a motorbike where, you know, so we have the equivalent of Uber here. It's called Grab and also Bolt. And so what's really nice is you can get a motorbike and a lot of times they don't have a helmet for you. Driving through the traffic here on the Thai roads, which is in the top 10 most dangerous roads in the world. So just keep that in mind. It's always a fun adventure in and of itself.

But I went to a temple Watempa, which is known for, it had this famous monk who was called the Tiger Pastifier a monk. His name was Lumpo Pern. Lumpo or Lepa is a term that is similar in Catholicism to saint. and what the actual translation for Long Po is, it's like grandfather or like Heavenly Father is what it means. So these are monks who have like, they've put in the time and they have become very, very well respected

and have performed miracles. And the reason why he was called the Tiger Pacifier monk, he would just straight up talk to tigers and they would listen. And this is like been observed and witnessed. Like it wasn't just some, you know, folklore-type myth that, you know, came out of the bush. Like, this was observable phenomena.

And his mummified body is on display in the temple. So that was like a nerd-out moment for me. I got to go over there, got to see that. And then I went to, you know, this Dragon Cave Temple. And then I went to a couple other places and, you know, got amulets from my shop and stuff. And this was kind of like a normal day for me. the day before that I went to go and find a lucy which is a term that's really relevant to what I do

Lucy are known as like the the forest hermits like they're like these old shaman dudes that like reclusively live by themselves in the forest people yeah if they get down and weird with the magic you know sometimes like they're making corpse oil from bodies you know sometimes it's like these weird herbs and concoctions they mix together for people like you never know what they're getting into but it's always a good time so i had been looking for this man for several months and he was really famous there's videos if you just type in lucy stomped at l-e-r-s-i-s-o-m-pit you can see videos of him on youtube and online of him sitting in boiling vats of oil meditating or the fire roaring underneath them.

And the dude's in like a giant human-sized walk. And he just meditates. So his clothes, tatter and fall off of him, boiling from the heat. And he comes out on harm. People cannot even come and stand close to the fire because it's so hot. So it's like the meditative power of this man. Well, I finally found his address.

This happened yesterday. It's an exciting thing when you, get a line on people like this. I go out there and it's no online presence or anything like, I mean, these people, you have to go there and find them and maybe you hit a jackpot, maybe it's bust. I get there and I can't find the house. I'm like, this has got to be where it is. So I start talking around. I'm like, you know, find it, find like the neighbors in the area and I'm like, you know, I'm asking like, do you know where the great-grandfather? You know, I'm asking like, do you know where the great-grandfather? father is, do you have, you know, is he in this area? And they're like, oh, he had a heart attack a few

months ago. Wow. So, and it was, you know, it was kind of sad in some regards because, you know, I missed out on this opportunity to meet someone that I would consider like, you know, a role model, a hero and like, and what I practiced, what I follow, what I search for. Yeah. And I, and I just missed that window, you know. And so what was, you know, take it for what it is as far as the story goes. But, you know, that night, I woke up in the middle of the night because there was a blinding light that stirred me from my sleep. I thought someone came into my room. I don't have an explanation for it. I'm not trying to create a specific picture for you to believe. But, but, but I can just tell you the objective phenomena that I witnessed.

And that was this blinding light. It seemed to have some sentience to it. There wasn't any sort of message or divine connection felt or anything like that. But I saw an actual blinding light in my room, and after a few minutes and a bit of confusion, it disappeared. I talked to one of my teachers about it, and he said, maybe you actually got to meet your master after all. all. I don't know. I'm very logic-based, which is very weird about what I do because it is very,

very weird stuff. But a lot of it can be explained through methodologies of Western science. And, you know, talk about like heart coherence and things like this meditation. Like, it's not just hoo-ha, you know. Oh, yeah. But, but, you know, to kind of, you know, shorten this and, you know, kind of put it back for, you know, some questioning here. So a lot of what I do is spending time with different masters and, you know, laypersons with magic or monks, studying what they're willing to teach me. And as a foreigner, it has been the most incredible experience. And I've become, you know, a top-ranking expert in my field because I can speak English, you know. And a lot of lot of this stuff, like if you're going to go and study and learn this, you know, you need to

learn Thai because every one of these like serious masters I've met that lived out in the middle of nowhere and they don't speak English. So it's like, how bad do you want to learn this stuff? For sure. No, no, you really got to have a passion for it. And too, or also rather, that passion has to extend to, I'm going to get on the back of a motorcycle. go no helmet for five hours to drive out into the countryside and go looking for a guy. I don't even know if I'm going to find.

But sometimes even just that search is meaningful as well, too. You get all the time to reflect on there. And you go find where they were at. You see the environment that they were existing in as they were doing a lot of that. You know, and you're probably seeing temples that are hundreds, maybe thousands of years old in your journeys. And that's, that's amazing too. I had no desire. I think ancient ruins, like actual ancient ruin.

Yeah. I mean, you were talking about, you know, living out in the middle and over. Well, I'm in, I'm in a city, but I'm in my wizard cave here. I mean, you can actually, the audience, what the audience sees is like from here to here, and you get to see the rest of it. So if you want to see what the rest of this room looks like, you got to be, got to be a guest. I'll just throw that out there.

So long story short on that. I have this, I have not enough desire to leave my cave and travel the world and actually go to other places. I don't think I ever will. I'm just a homebody kind of guy. Um, but that's like a nagging thought in my mind that I should in some ways. Like, I feel like there's, there's great value in it, uh, you know, so I, I don't think I'd regret it. I just, I don't know, I don't know that I'm actually ever going to do it.

Um, but that's, that is amazing too. I mean, there are some places that you really have to, you go there and you, you feel the history of the place. You feel that this was important to a lot of people and, and maybe still is. If there's, you know, active practicing community still inhabiting those areas, uh, And you can feel the history and the tradition. And then there's also something. So what do I do in my practice?

I very much stay in my lane, dreams, but also the psychological side of dreams. So there's the spooky woo side. And I say that lovingly. Like I have a tremendous fascination with unexplained phenomenon of all kinds. And that can relate, you know, in the dream realm, prophetic dreams, um, visitations from the dead. I don't know how to tell you if a dream is or is not. prophetic or you were or were not visited, but I don't dismiss that as a possibility. I'm not specifically scientifically rash.

Long story short on that one is you go to some of these places and you, there's a feel to a place that cannot be explained by just, oh, I'm in a very old place. It's like this is a place that's collected a lot of energy of some kind of. You have to experience it. Oh, yeah. And you get there like, undeniable. Then you tell someone like, oh, sure, energy, whatever. Like, okay, fair enough.

You either accept that's possible or you don't, and a lot of people don't. But I was going to ask you, okay, so all of this to not even have you comment on even just my two cents. I was going to ask you about the necklace there. That seems like a great thing to discuss. Yeah. So, yeah, this is in Thai culture, they're very, very big on amulets. And that's, it's a very big passion of mine. And I've learned how to make different types of amulets.

And the ingredients very wildly, wildly depending upon what you're actually making. So this necklace, I have, I mean, I have in storage in the U.S., about a thousand that are like in my shop for sale. I have a bag of like several hundred right now that are going to get shipped and go. But I have like at least 50 or 60

that I personally keep and carry with me at all times. This is my choklap and sane necklace. And choklop is like wealth and sane is like charm. So perfect for someone like me who's always going out and meeting people. And then like I have a travel TV show with a network that I film for. So it's like the way I present myself, you know, I want to come off in a certain way. And because I operate business, I want to try to maximize the ability to generate business. This one has an actual scorpion in it.

Oh, yeah. Nice. And then these two right here, they might be conflicting for some people. These are what we call paneng. Panang means the buckle or the frontal part of the skull. So these came from actual people. They were not murdered for them, you know. But they were ethically harvested.

And that's an interesting question that I've had to answer for people for because they're like, how do you ethically harvest a person's skull? And it's like, okay, well, you have to first understand the culture is very different here. So they believe in a concept called Tambun. Tombun is the art of making merit. Doing good things brings good things into your life. we can all agree to this to some degree, right? Well, Thai people take it to a whole other level.

They also believe in reincarnation. They believe it, okay, let's say your daughter was involved in, you know, work of the night, if you will. And he got into a very violent situation and her life ended. And because of how news reports in Thailand, they name drop. they show pictures of the crimes like news is different over here. Wow. Somebody got shot in a robbery. Like on the news, you're going to see the body.

Like you will see it all. They don't censor it. No pixelation. So yeah, there's no pixelation of it. So what ends up happening is you have, you know, something called saving face, right? People don't want to lose face. and the best way to uphold the reputation of a family of a name, if something like this is to occur,

is you have to somehow create something beautiful from something tragic. And what is a better way to do that in the Thai culture than to respectfully take the remains of your daughter's body and turn it into amulets that will help people and will bring good things into their life, which will create good merit, good karma that will be shared with the soul of the deceased, who will then have a better incarnation when they reincarnating.

Whether you believe it or not, this is the way that they practice. This is the way that they do things in the land. So a lot of times it's not out of the question that when there are certain amulets that not all are, but when there are certain amulets that are made from corpse, material or what we call P-H-I or P-H-E, when it's made from P-O-P-R-P-E-Material, a lot of times the family

has given consent for that. And of course, not everything is, you know, all roses and whatnot. There are weird people out here doing some very nefarious things as well. It's a whole spectrum. And the one who made this one. So like this one you might have to censor because it shows a nude female with certain things in her hands. But this one has a corpse oil in it, Naman Pie oil. And this one is Pika.

So this is like a rare ghost. And she's often depicted with a bird, like an owl on one shoulder and a monkey on the other. And she's for fetching wealth. And then I have Pra Rahu. So Rahoo is a perfect depiction of how Hindu traditions have blended into Thai culture as well, because Rahoo is a deity known and revered in Hindu traditions. He's also very relevant over here. Same as we have Propom.

The four cardinal direction wealth deity that you see outside of every major business establishment is a aspect. of Brahma. And then on this side, we have Kudheng, the Warrior General. And this is one of my favorites because, you know, it's just, it's so tied. Like, it comes from a Ramayana tale, you know, about this powerful general. And, you know, it's a bit of myth mixed with, you know, real stories. So that's kind of the fun of it because it's so exaggerated. But a lot of that actually did occur on some level historically.

as I guess with a lot of mythos, right? But with Kun Pan, so he's known for Myanmar, which means many wives. And anytime you go around Thai girls and they see you're wearing Kun Pan, they'll look at you and they'll just be like, oh, like Kun Pan, oh!

And they're like, oh, you're going to steal my heart. Like, and it's like a cute little cultural exchange, you know? And it's just, I'm kind of rambling now off of the ambivaling. ambulance, but that's good. I love the explanation of all of them. That's fantastic, especially the idea, and this, this is what struck me out of all. I mean, all that's fascinating. I love this. Okay, pinning that for two seconds, tangent. If you are aware of any resources you could direct me to about how Thai culture or Southeast Asian culture more broadly does dream interpretation, I want to get a hold of that stuff. I've been republishing older works, mostly Western, because I only read English. Well, I did translate. a bunch of Latin and Greek, but that's a whole, that was a whole thing. I don't know if I want to do that again. I don't think I want to translate a whole Thai book, but I have no facility, long story short, I would love to be, to be direct on this, but talking about transforming tragedy into triumph. So, there's the spooky woo, as I say, superstitious side of things where,

you know, it's, it's very vague and you say, well, if you wear this and then there's an aura and then there's, there's, there's, basically magic happens and good things come to you when you have the amyulate. But there's the strictly scientific, rationalist, skeptical side of things too, which still validate a lot of these cultural practices because of how they function. So if it's a

society-wide phenomenon that you take tragedy and turn it into triumph, you take a person who died in a bad way, doing a bad thing, and then you try to, it is encouraged and accepted that a family can restore some of their honor, some of their face

with, by, by taking that person and then transforming it into good objects that then bring better luck or better fortune or or and and what does it mean so we we use words like luck and fortune and there is there is an element of of chaos magic in that and like I'm really I'm really yin yang on the dividing line between dancing between the the the spooky woo and scientific I think they're both valid in their own ways but from the purely psychological side it's like what we believe and what we focus on is where our energy goes. And we say energy, but it means our actions follow our, our thoughts and our prayers and our wishes and desires. So if you have an amnil, you're,

you're, you're, of containing the bone of a deceased person who has then been rehabilitated. And then your focus is on acting well in the world so that they share in your karma. There are, there are practical, physical, scientific, positive, social, benefits to these practices that you don't have to, you don't have to believe in magic at all. You can leave that completely aside and say, just following these cultural practices is better for the society you're living in.

So that's, I'll stop there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, crime rates are drastically lower here in Thailand for being a developing country even as well compared to, you know, Western cultures, such as like, you know, Germany, US, Australia. Like, it's quite different the way things are. It's everything out here is about community and it's about honor. And, you know, granted, like, obviously you have outliers.

Like, we're not taken away from that. But as a general standard, people have kind of a flow of how they all collectively operate. Like, we have something called Sanpacum. Sanpacum is everywhere. And you cannot walk down a street. street without seeing a dozen of them. And what they are is they look like little dollhouses. And they have little figurines in them.

And you'll see like little bowls of rice and like fanta drinks and stuff on them and candies. And what this is for is to appease the wandering lost ghost so that they don't haunt other people. So that, you know, random tragedies and accidents don't befall, you know, individuals. They very much so integrate the suits. supernatural with, you know, their everyday life so much so that, like, you know, your first thing is, okay, I'm sick. I go to the doctor. If the doctor cannot figure out what's wrong with me, time to go see the medicine man. You know, so it's not to a point where people are like,

oh, I'm like coughing up blood. Like, I need to go see the local adjourn. It's like, no, you go to the hospital. You go get that checked out. But there's no explanation for it. And, you're in seemingly good health and they can't find out what's going on with you, well, now we need to go and see what the eastern side of things says. So, like, they are quite practical, you know. And one of the, one of the weirder, you know, things for me is, like, I've had the ability to, through experiences I'm so grateful for, I've been able to test certain things.

So I have a video I'll email you. you know, after this, but I got to experience what they colloquially called the chop. And, you know, a lot of people will make the argument when you get the sock-ion tattoos, these, you know, Kamara spells that are, you know, tattooed on the body, that are supposed to make you invincible or more charming, et cetera. It's like an amulet, but on your skin. Certain masters will test the power of it to show you it, works. And that will involve dragging a knife across your throat, chopping you, stabbing you,

and there's no wound. It's painful, but there's no wound. I experienced that a week and a half ago in Konkan. I was in Ysan in like rural province towards the Lao border. And I met this old Lucy out there. And, you know, the funny thing was I wasn't looking for that experience. I got invited to go to this ceremony, and I'm filming it. I'm making an episode from my show. I'm mingling with the people. I'm having a great time.

You know, there's Thai dancing. There's all kinds of just like really rich cultural experience happening right here now. And then all of a sudden I get singled out, a whole crowd, the only foreigner there. I get singled out by the man who's possessed by Petyanudokam, like a high mercy god spirit. And, you know, this spirit through the man stummens me right in front of him. And I'm like, okay? Like, I guess I'm getting a blessing or something. Like, all right, I know the drill.

So I do my sotu. I like, you know. And I give my offering. And then next thing I know, I'm being held down on all fours by the lukes, the disciples. And the man is doing the saki on me. And I have no idea what he's putting on me, but I've been through this before. So I'm like, okay. you know, like, and then they hold me down really tight.

And I have this all on video. He pulls out a big machete, starts sawing it across my back, and then full force, boom, boom, boom, striking me. Now, in some instances, we could say, okay, well, how do we know it's not just a blunt tool, right? Even if it were a blunt tool,

with strong force, you're going to break the skin. And I had bruising on my back after that. And it was very, very painful, the experience itself. And when I came up, my eyes were wild, and I'm immediately just bowing before this master. I was like, oh, my God, like, and just shaking my genital and going crazy. And the next day when I went to go back to see him,

and talked to him some more, and I had no cut on me at all. And the next day when I went to go back and see him again, he told me, you know, some things about my childhood that only a couple of people in my life know about. And this was, you know, the day before it was the first time I met this man ever in my life.

You know, this is a random guy in the middle of nowhere, rural Thailand doesn't speak any English, doesn't even know how to use Google, you know, like he's, and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, literally a simpleton. But when this God comes inside of his body, he does very unbelievably divine things. And this man who knew nothing about me proceeded to talk about very personal things that happened in my childhood. That are not public knowledge even. And so I was just like between both of those experiences, I was like,

Like, you know, and this isn't the first time I've had, you know, an experience of a certain caliber with a teacher. But it's like moments like that that make me kind of smile in a certain way. And I'm just like there really is magic in this world. Yeah. No, I definitely, like I said, it would be scientifically minded and rationalist and all that good stuff. I don't discount those things. I just can't explain them. So I'm like someone, and this is literally, I have a friend of mine who lives, you know,

know, like half a mile from me. And years ago, he and I were talking. I'm like, you know, if you ever had these experiences, like, yeah, I had a prophetic dream. And a week later, it happened exactly as I dreamed it. I'm like, I don't know what to do with that. That's amazing. But I believe it. But I think it's true. I'm just not a, I'm not able to move in that world, so to speak. like I don't think I can understand sufficiently. I think I do, that's not the right way to say it. I think I do access some of that power

because I don't know where my dream interpretations come from. Like I know I'm making suggestions, but why? What is the inspiration? How do I make my connections? How? How do I do what I do and why does it work? I don't know.

I think it's magic, honestly. And I say that like, one of my teachers. I like the term that he came up with better than any other term I've ever heard. And he simply refers to it as the stuff. Hmm. Interesting.

Either got the stuff. The stuff is working for you or it's not. Yeah. You just tapped into the stuff. You got the stuff. You're using the stuff. That's, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've jumped.

And that's why I think a lot of these mythological frame, we, in the modern world, in our Western rationalist, enlightenment, all that good stuff. We tend to poo-poo a lot of these things where it's like, it's energy or, or, you know, different ways of explaining what is, what is, what is spirits and, and whatnot. But I think all of the, the mythological frameworks, they, they're, they're explaining real things. They're explaining things that, that are actually how the world, and I was going to say this earlier, too, is like, what we have today is, you know, we've kind of split it up into physicians, doctors, and, and, and psychologists in a way, but also,

you know, in a way, what that used to be was, you know, the medicine men. They were the, they were the doctor and the chief, you know, the village doctor and and psychologist in a way, or spiritual advisor in that way. They were the pinnacle of the community. Yeah, absolutely. And someone who had to take their responsibility very seriously because they could do a lot of damage if they didn't have the right ethical framework or, you know, and of course we're all human.

And so there've been, what am I trying to say, untrustworthy or malicious practitioners in the past where it's like, okay, just because you're the medicine man doesn't mean you're a good person. You got to actually do good with what you've got. But I've tried to, so why do I believe in magic? One night? Because we've got the idea of a, say, a pyramid of knowledge. And this is what's, you know, you see it on our money, the pyramid and then the all seeing eye above it. You can build a foundation of knowledge. knowledge that can take you to the peak.

And then there's a gap. And then there is new insight of the eureka moment. There's, there's an understanding. There's inspiration. That's, I think the idea of the Greek conception of the muses, inspiring artists, that's as good of an explanation as any, because we don't know where inspiration comes from. It's not like we have a formula like add, you know, 10% of this, 20% of that shake for, you know, however long.

And then boom, you got inspired. and we can reliably create it every no no no it's completely unpredictable in that way so so the way i described what i do is i just open myself to the the proper focus this the spirit of being beneficial to the person i'm talking to and then good stuff comes through uh and i think a lot of it is it's our intention yeah yeah and that's how i describe it too it's like so and i said off off air and i believe it you know I don't hear the voice of God or spirits. I don't, you know, have magic powers, so to speak, except it's like a football player and he gets down to the end.

And rather than, you know, celebrating himself, you'll just get down on one knee and put a hand up. You know, it's like, this is, you know, I didn't do this. This is something that happened through me. That's kind of the way I approach it. Now, is that real or delusional on my, who knows? That's what it feels like. That's what I think I do. so that's what's real to me as far as I can tell and I you know I'll stop there

I'll explain a process for you that um that I'm sure you'll appreciate so I was I was studying with Master Leck and I've lived with him for about a year and I mean this man was like hardcore when it came to like study um so when I when I became his decisive disciple, if I didn't say the kata, the moutres, the prayers, that, like, and some of them are really long, like take 30 minutes to recite one. And if I would so much as butcher pronunciation, he would smack the back of my head with a read, like, you know, it's like we have like this poem for making like the Norman, like the holy water, and he would just help me on the back of the head with it, make me start over. So, and he was drilling.

into me, you know, it seems harsh, but like when you think about like old school masters and the way that they teach, it is very hard. But you also see how they became known as a master, right? You know, because they, they have a very strict discipline. They, they do things in a very specific way. But they can't always explain to you why it's done that way. It's just that's the way to do it. So he was teaching me the itty piso and I was learning about snake charming. And so we went out to this cobra farm and we got monoclet cobra, which if you know anything about king cobra, monoclet cobra is more venomous than a king cobra. One bite and they're native here in Thailand. So one bite and pictures of videos of this stuff

I was in to you. Like, you could nerd out on it. So this monoclet cobra without anti-venom, depending upon the amount of venom in the bite, will kill you within 10 minutes to an hour. That's your window of time. So it's pretty serious. And he decided that it was time for us to go play with cobras.

So we go out to the cobra farm. and the first thing he tells me he says before we can charm the cobra we have to eat the cobra it's like okay so I drank the cobra blood

and its kidney and then I and then and I ate that and drank that raw and I mean diseases and then and then we ate the actual cooked meat of the cobra which I will say

is the best meat I've ever had in my life. Quite chewy. A lot of bones, but really good with garlic. Wow. And after that, we then went and caught a cobra in the rice patty. Okay.

So after ingesting, then we go out and we catch a different cobra from the rice patty. And then we keep it in the home by the altar in a little cage. And we have to go out and we have to make Sankatan to the monk, which is like medicines and umbrella and like robe and stuff like that for the monk because the monk cannot buy these things. They have to be given to them. And in return, what the monk does is he says specific prayers and blessings. And what you do in this instance, so this isn't like for everything. But in our specific situation, we transform the merit that was given to us.

for the snake that we killed because the snake's god does not show favor on us, the naga, the piaak, does not show favor on us because we slayed one of its students, one of its children, you know, the cobra. And so in return for doing all of that, then we're able to save the special katah and then handle the cobra and it won't bite us. So I have this aha moment when we were doing the ritual, where we like put the snake around her neck. And it was like the symbology of it.

I was like, oh my God, this is a tuning with Shiva. This is akin to Shivite ritual work. That's what this is all about. Like they're not directly saying that, but like you make the correlation. That's what this is here. Oh my God. And then I was like thinking about it. I was like, why do we have to ingest the snake if that's a sin?

But then we need to have the snake ingested so that we can do the snake charmas because report, DNA report. and getting in rapport with the snake itself. And it was like I had all these connection moments where I was like, oh my God, like they can't explain this because it was never explained to them, but they know the practice, they know the process to get the result. They just don't know how to tell you and decipher

why they're able to get that result because they do these steps. But someone who comes from a Western background and has studied things from a Western side of, it, I've been able to immerse myself in the Eastern traditions and kind of bridge together some things and say, oh, that's why you're letting the monk spit in your face. Oh, I get it. Concentrated tea from a source point of meridians. Ah, it makes sense. It's not just this gross, weird thing, this old monk did to me. Like, you know what I mean? Definitely. As much as we in our, in our West, from our Western framework are like, yeah.

I don't want to be spit on. It's nasty. And then we would, you know, probably most of us avoid that. But then when you realize that, you know, a lot of these things are done, they have a completely different meaning in a different culture. So a lot of us don't want to be spit on. Number one, because we feel bodily flu is gross. Fair enough.

A lot of them are. But also, it's a, in the West, it is intentional disrespect. You spit on people that you want to tell, I don't like you. I think you're less than me. I want to insult you. But then it's a completely different. meaning in in in in Thailand for sure where they're like okay this is a this is a blessing of a kind I'm giving you something a gift so that can change completely you know the the experience of it

absolutely and you know they have um they have something that's called locombe locombe um there's many different ways they're made but they're usually like these spherical little balls that are compressed from different herbs and you'll have some types that are made where a monk will chew something very similar to beetle nut mixed with different herbs that are all known to have specific medicinal and spiritual properties of their own and he'll chew this over a long period of time and will chant very specific prayers while chewing it and then the end result he ends up creating this compacted kind of little, you know, mass that it'll roll into a ball. And if you're so fortunate enough and you curry favor with this monk, he just might gift

you one of those little gome that might have taken him six months to create. And people pay top dollar for those type of things, too. But, you know, it's like you're saying, and like the Western connection is like, why would I want something, some old man chewed up and spit on for several months? Why would I want to touch that? But over here is a very, very different meaning. For sure. Yeah.

And I think there's even, but then to draw a comparison, say, between Western practices, we might even say, you know, if most of us are a Christian, like, I don't know that a lot of those practitioners can fully explain what a lot of the rituals mean. Like, I don't know how deeply, say, even Catholics get into more than the kind of superficial top layer of the Eucharist. And, but then there's, there's additional layers to like to the history of it and to the modern practice and when and how it brings people together and for what focused purpose and, uh, all of that kind of stuff.

So it's, it also made me think of like, um, uh, we in the West definitely want explanations. We want to know, if I can't explain it, it's not real. If, uh, but then again, we can't quite dismiss phenomenon where it's like, well, it's, seems to work, even if we don't know why. And I think a lot of the Eastern practices are somewhat like that. Maybe they can offer explanations, but to them it may not be as important. It's like, who cares? Why it works, it works.

We just know it. We just do it. And it isn't, oops, the cat, sorry. And it isn't a matter of, well, I don't want to say that. Even if these things, some things are placebo effect, that is actually real and very powerful as well. It's like what you believe and what you focus on is what you put out in the world and what you work towards. And so a lot of these things are, you know, I think some of it is,

you know, why do we feel feel better after unburdening ourselves of a secret that was embarrassing us and we can have someone to commiserate with us and say they understand. It's like, we can, we can definitely say it works. And we can reference brain chemicals vaguely and say, oh, it's just a process in the head and it's, you know, doxtocin and dopamine and all this stuff. That doesn't really explain it. Why do we, feel better. What do we feel anything? So there's a lot of things that Western science doesn't want to admit it can't explain.

And a lot of things it takes on faith as well. So I think it gets a little bit of that, you know, dismissing things that are unfamiliar because they seem silly and not really realizing how silly some of our own practices are. And we can't explain them either. Well, I think, you know, some of the Western science is catching up

because in some regards we now know that there are you know imprints of intelligent you know particles of light that can be observed on the broader

spectrum that we can't necessarily see with our naked eyes which would then indicate that you know in a roundabout way were saying, oh, ghost. You know, but it would indicate even more importantly that our environment is bigger than

we can fathom with our basic senses. Oh, yeah. And that's where the science is now, you're having to start to look to quantum physics and stuff for things. And, you know, it's opening more rabbit holes and it's crazy. But this is stuff that, like, if you go back to, you know, the Vedic sleep temples and, like, you know, preronic texts and things from ancient India. It's like, oh, they've been knowing about weird stuff for quite a while.

And they've been able to explain it, you know? Yeah, yeah. That too. I think it's about how much somebody is willing to study, though, if they're interested. Sure. Yeah, definitely. Well, a lot of the books that I've edited and republished are coming out of the late 1800s and just into the early part of the 1900s.

There was a big, what's the word for it? you know, kind of a surge in interest in all things Eastern. Like, it's, it's come and gone through that. So, so there's a, there's a lot of incorporating those elements in for explaining dream phenomenon and sleep. And then other, a lot of these authors did, they tell great stories about here's, here's something that happened and here's the, the tale of this thing and how it came to be what it is.

That's great, great education on those, on those friends. I was actually going to say something else about, damn it's one of those days I didn't have enough coffee this morning explaining explaining things explain phenomenon damn

I think it might be gone I was going somewhere with that was that the books explaining Eastern Eastern hold on a second gotta do the weave got to bring it back studying Western phenomenon oh well maybe it was just the broader point

of like you know, we rediscover things that were lost, and that's kind of what occult practices in my mind. I don't know if you have a different concept of it. A lot of people think, oh, occult you mean satanic

sacrifice rituals. Well, you know. It simply means the hidden, you know, something that's hidden. And something that's hidden doesn't necessarily mean that it's purposely you know, not being shown. It can be something

that was lost, like you're saying, and it's been found again. And it's not even that it went somewhere and disappeared. It's just perfect example, be like, you know, you have some practices that belong to, you know, these leucie that are strictly oral tradition. And you're relying on generation after generation to not only pass down and continue passing down that knowledge, but to accurately pass it down. And just because it may become lost at some point and that line may be or that lineage may be broken doesn't mean that that knowledge is lost. It can be found again.

Yeah. I think that was part of where I was going. And that's a great way to tie it into the idea that, let's say for generations, people pass down this wisdom. And then at some point, someone decides, I'm going to write all this down. but then the tradition gets lost. It doesn't actually carry forward. There's no more practitioners.

And then 100 years after that, someone finds that book and now they're describing what was happening, but only so much is to give people an idea of what it was and maybe even to describe some of the actual practices or say recipes of making the amulets or whatnot. But it's not going to capture the whole thing. And it may not even capture the explanation that comes with the experience

of a thing that in a way can't be put into words. So we get into these things where we look at it and go, well, this sounds far-fetched and silly and who would believe that. And it's like, well, they did for hundreds of years. And it just kind of died out. And then now, now we're trying to reconstruct it or explain it from this twice removed type of perspective. So that can be very frustrating. And then it gives people, I think, the wrong impression of some of this stuff where it's like, because it sounds to certain people as if it's poorly explained and likely, what am I trying to say? There's a dismissive way people refer to that kind of stuff, but it's the words not coming to me.

I think you get what I'm saying. I do. I do. You know, I've had, you know, these weird experiences where, you know, the way people were so dismissive of what was going on. baffled me even more because I was the only one that was having the reaction. So, for example, Lumpocac is like my grand crew. Like, he was my master's teacher.

And he passed away seven years ago. And so every year they do what's called a Y crew, which is a celebration of a teacher. And every different like master will have a Y-Crew. crew it's like a birthday you know they have it on a specific day of the year not just like one day is the day of y crew for every you know master the master will decide their own white crew for whatever reasons they do and um we were doing lombo kak's white crew uh both gymiously and i knew that we were honoring his spirit i knew that this was a powerful monk um he was one of the most famous of the modern history, you know, the rap sheet of history on this monk, I'm so proud to be part of that lineage.

Because the dude was just like, incredible, incredible man. But during the ceremony, Lumpel Cack loved to smoke. He loved to smoke cigarettes. Monks aren't supposed to smoke, by the way. But this dude was such a badass. In the middle of the ceremony, in a temple, where it's a big, big no-no for smoking. he would just straight up light a cigarette in the middle of the ceremony and smoke and ash on the temple floor and nobody would say a word to him he was notful cat like that's like the level of status he had

so we light cigarettes for him and the first weird thing was they were lit i like turned for just like a second and then look back and i had to do a double take because the cigarettes were like butts already I was like, okay, maybe displacement of time. Like, this can be explained. That's odd, but like not necessarily something that can't be explained. And then Lumpel Kack's favorite chair started rattling on the floor. There's no strings or nothing. Like, there's nobody over there.

It just starts violently shaking back and forth, rocking on the floor. and I turn over to my to my teacher and I'm just like like dude like what and he's like he's like yeah I love pocaque here where we call him what you think he come we call him he come and I'm like bro like and nobody else bat in an eye nobody in the room was you know having the reaction I was having it was just normal for them wow yeah wow They'd seen it before. They're like, oh, yeah, this happens. Yeah, they're just like, oh, yeah, we called the master and he came. What do you think we were doing? What did you expect? Yeah.

What about favorite phrases? What did you think was going to happen? I love that too. Like find a, you know, a weird little recipe for something in a demon online and now your house is on it. What did you think would happen? You know, like, I don't mess with that stuff. Even if I can't explain it.

Well, that's another thing, too. And I've talked about this before. And then actually, we should, we're almost at an hour. It's been too much fun talking to you. We've got to get to the dream stuff. But I believe that incorporeal things are as real as physical things in a different way. And when people think of real, they think of material objects. I can touch a table, a desk, a pen.

That's real. That's what real means. And I think we have categories are real, you know, day and night. These are experiences, conditions that exist, even though they've got fuzzy boundaries, You've got twilight and dawn, you know, there's, but, but, you know, when you're in the nighttime, you are not in the daytime. And, and, and, and, and it's not mere word play. You change the word for day and night.

You're still in one condition or in another. The sun is shining on you or at the moon. Um, so I think these kids and I, okay, long story short of that, I'll go on forever on that stuff. I think that applies to angels and demons. I, I don't know that these are entities with their own intent necessarily. I think they are categories of experience or is one way to phrase it that we tap into. So, you know, if you seek to do harm, you tap into the spirit of causing harm,

the demonic force, and then that, then you channel that through you into the world. So that's the same thing with angels, I would say. So the example I use for this is, and I'm much more a better verse than say, and Greek Greek mythology and whatnot. But there are two different spiritual forces of learning, knowing, understanding. You've got the demon, Stolas, and the angel, Uriel. And the way I've described it is that Stolus, you can appeal to Stolus for wisdom and you will get it. But it is the school of hard knocks.

You're going to suffer for that information. And you may not like the process, but you'll, you'll get smart pretty quickly. But Uriel is more like learning from wisdom. It is received wisdom passed down from elders in a way. So it's, you know, you can seek an education or you can learn the hard way. And that's how I conceive of these spiritual forces. And whether they are embodied or not, whether they have a shape we can describe or a face, we can talk to.

I don't think that's the way any of this stuff works. But I don't know if you have thoughts on that. If that comports with any Eastern ways of things. my book on demonology because I wrote a book called Demonology for the Modern Age. And I describe these dimensions of existence, these type of entities, the different classifications, how the staging of haunting works, et cetera, like down to a science. And I explain it in Western science terms, and I blend it with the Eastern esoterrorism. traditions and I had to make it as like a compendium of sorts as a reference guy because I have

students and I I am very much so an exorcist and I have worked many different cases. We're in the thousands now. I have a colleague that I work with as well and I've traveled all over the world to go help people and you know the stuff is very real as far as as what all is going on, I mean, we could split hairs on that all day long. I'll just send you a copy of the book. Nice. But yeah, that's definitely my territory. That's very cool.

Well, okay, two quick things that we'll get to the dream, I swear. But one is I hope to someday soon, when I get back to the whole writing thing, release a book, you know, Wizard's Guide to Angels and Demons. And it'll be more of an almost encyclopedic thing of like, like I explained Stolus and Uriel, like the balance of opposite forces. what not that. But I think of another, I'm always trying to find better ways to explain things. So in a way, going to see a psychologist is a self, is a participation in a self-exorcism in a way. And what I mean by that is that you are acting in the world in a way that is not making you

happy, successful, et cetera. You've got, you've got things in you that you have allowed to be there that got put there against your will. And you're going to see someone to, you're going to see someone to, you know, in a way, open your mouth and let the spirit, bad spirits out and find a better way to embrace others. So you're trying to swap out that energy for negative or harmful habits and thoughts for better ways of existing in the world. You're trying to exercise the demons and bring in the angels to improve. And, you know, but again, it's in a very, it's a weak analogy in a way because it's not quite the same. But I like drawing those parallels so that people understand, like, if going to a psychologist is valid, then these other,

methods have validity too and they're more specific they just conceive of things a little differently and have different methods for achieving those ends but I think it I think it functions very similarly in a lot of ways is my two cents I don't know if you wanted a final thought on that I mean I I I like you know the versatility of words and how we hear certain words and they immediately evoke certain you know thoughts and feelings in our bodies So I use, like, demon as a term for simplicity. But if you have to be like what my actual definition of a demon is, it is a quasi-physical, malevolent, non-human entity.

That's what I call them. Sure. But that's such a mouthful. Right. So you're saying, oh, yeah, it's a demon, right? It's an easier way to bridge, you know. And then when you're working with someone, you can kind of steer. than more towards, you know, understanding further.

But, you know, for simplicity's sake, yeah, it's better to just use certain terms. And like what you were talking about as far as like it is an exorcism in the psychological sense, you know, with therapy and whatnot, absolutely I agree. I would even go as far as to say, I think using the term like a soul retrieval, a Native American soul retrieval, be more fitting for that terminology. but, you know, it's, it's all about the terms we use for understanding, right? Oh, yeah. And then part of the, you know, practice of psychology is also trying to find the words,

analogies, um, methods that work best for an individual person because you and I might have one kind of connection and then me and somebody else completely different. And you understand things from a particular perspective. So I need to speak to that as much as I can to get, get you where we're going. So speaking of where we're going, maybe I've kept you talking for like an hour. Dreams. I know dreams. Let's do the thing.

I'm ready if you are. And so as per my usual process, I just shut up and listen. Our friend tells me the dream. And then we figure it out together. So I'm ready when you are. I'm going to write down this time. It is one hour. Benjamin the dream wizard wants to help you.

Here's the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dream. Every episode of his dreamscapes program features real dreamers, gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreamscape's episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks, exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience, and much, much more. To join The Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms, and Through the contact page at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon,

documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. All right, anytime. Tell me a story. Any story. Well, the dream you would like to. understand would be the ideal.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So like a reoccurring dream maybe? It sure can be. If that, okay. So what I say to people is dreams, in my estimation, self-select for importance. Recurring dreams is one of the ways they show you.

They're important. They keep coming back. But also the intensity of the feeling and the vividness of the memory, the recall over time. So if you've got a. specific dream that's very recent and feels meaningful. We can talk about it. I have one that I haven't had in years, but it was like the strongest dream that I've ever had visually.

And it stayed with me. I've had this same dream three times in my life. And each time I've had the dream, it was like I explored another part of it. It wasn't the same. The theme, everything that was going on. was all related, it was the same, but it was like a continuation, if that makes sense. Sure.

And I've only been there three times. For sure. Last time was years ago, but this dream has always stuck with me. So the best way to explain it, because, I mean, how do you describe dreams, right? It can be pretty tough. And I don't want to stop you,

but I might have to. So if there were three, separate dreams that were all slightly different. So usually, what am I trying to say? I learn more every time I talk to someone. So the typical reoccurring dream is it is the same, at least in formula. There can be variety of elements. It is a less typical phenomenon that a dream would reoccur technically, but that maybe

you start in the same place and then you go somewhere different. So it's actually a different dream. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Now, I've had dreams expressed to me. I talked to one person who, and this is a known phenomenon as well, reported by a lot of people, there are, there are those who have a dream world and every dream they have occurs in that world. And they know it's in the same world. And they can revisit scenes and locations that they've been to before in that same world. The world I went to. This is more of your experiences. It's more of like the,

the world of your dreams. So this is like a specific place that I've only been to three times. And I don't like, I don't know that I'd call it like a reincarnation or anything like that. But like just it was like it was like a movie in a sense. Like it did it happen, you know, before. There was a familiarity to it. This would sound really weird, but it's a dream. So there was some sort of cylindrical tubes that people, including myself, would take out of different parts of their body and swap them out with these columns.

It was like a barren wasteland of sorts. And they're these big, like, you know, transformers, like, the world they come from is all, like mechanical and stuff. So it was like this barren like landscape, but there were these weird mechanical columns like throughout the world. And most of them were stripped dry. You know, they had empty slots where like these columns used to be. And the different people, myself included, would collect these spherical tubes. And like you have these like slots in your body where you could swap them out. And they would change the characteristics of, um,

what you could do. Like you could either fly or the body part itself would like take some sort of animal like shape and grant like an ability akin to that. So it was like this weird mechanical body warping transformation granted by these cylindrical tube that came from these mechanical columns. And you know, as far as the, you know, aspect of what was going on in the dream, that felt very warlike. Like there was some kind of war.

All of the intricate details, I don't remember. But the weirdness of these tubes, swapping them in and out, these columns and, like, the world itself, like, I'd always told myself, if I, like, you know, if I, like, you know, if I have this dream, like, a fourth time, like, I don't care what I'm doing.

I'm going to block alcohol next day, and I'm going to write a book about this because it could be a great, like, sci-fi book, you know? It was just so real and vivid. No kidding. That is how, say, the author, Treasure Island, Robert Louis Stevenson, he explicitly credits the little people in his dreams for giving him the stories he

wrote about. They told him the story. They acted it out. And then he just went and wrote it down. And he says, these aren't even my stories. I got them from the little people in my dreams. I believe him. I mean, even if that's just his experience, his own hallucination of the thing is,

oh, my imagination comes to me through little people visions in my dreams. But he believed they were real. Fair enough. I think it's 6.1. Why not? The story Treasure Island exists. However, it got there. That's real.

That happened. So, you know, it was the result of that experience. Long story short on that, too. So I love being challenged. This is great. I'm conceptualizing new ways. So I'm well familiar with. reoccurring dreams.

And typically they are very similar beat for beat with slight variations sometimes. And usually the variation indicates some current event that is influencing that particular experience of that reoccurring dream. What happens with those? So if we analyzed a series of recurring dreams and I've had people that have them once a month, twice a month. And if we isolate. one and talk about it and then extrapolate to the others to see how they're similar one of two things

happen either the dream stopped completely because you don't need them anymore you understand it now or the nature of the dream changes uh in the example i give is i talk to one guy who had the same recurring dream he's moving through a house and he gets to the backyard and he wants to go he wants to continue forward and there's these shadow people and as he tries to push past him with them they beat the hell out of him. And that happened over and over and over again. Then he and I talked about it. He got back to me a few days later and said, this time in my dream, I did not try to push past them. I stopped and talked to them. And they said they were looking out for me. They said I wasn't ready to go down that path. So they stopped me for my own good. And they didn't attack me and we had a

great conversation. And then I woke up and I'm like, that's, that's how you know we hit something. Like if the dream kept coming. That's progress. That's progress. If the dream kept coming back in exactly the same format. We didn't, we didn't understand it. Whatever answer we got was not relevant. So, yeah, they either stop or they change. Now, for you, we're combining a little bit of that, that second one where it changes. You are experiencing these similar dreams, but then they, they take a different direction at different points. So they are changing. So I think you're getting something from them that allows you to, when you return, you don't have to repeat something because you get it. Now you're, you're able to go.

in a different direction. So your own self-analysis, your own spiritual practice seems to be giving you some kind of insight that allows you to change the nature of your own recurring dreams to make progress. And then the fact that you haven't had them in a while means either the situation that was causing them has fundamentally changed in some way. I'm a vague here, but trying to give an idea. Or the triggering event hasn't happened in a while so you don't need to revisit it. because what happens with a lot of recurring dreams is they they encapsulate and crystallize, I say, a particular kind of concept. What's a good example?

I had one, but, you know, it's a dream symbols unique to individuals will often crystallize into, I call it crystallizing a concept into something. It's crystallized because it takes out a definite shape and it's crystals, it's rock hard. It's, it doesn't change. This is now how you understand the things. thing. This is the person from your past that that embodies a specific concept. So you see their face and form in your dream when you think of that concept. That's crystallizing an idea. So what you, okay, all of this to say, what you gave me were broad strokes that seemed to come

back in every dream or the existence of that world in the cylinders and swapping them in and out. That stays the same. And then other experiences change that, that's say the same. So like in the last one, It was like where I got the impression of like there's some kind of war happening. And like, you know, that was where I felt like, okay, like, so all of this has some sort of, you know, relation to like us as a whole, like, you know, in the dream world, like, you know, fighting to survive and some sort of element. Like there, it just, it felt like there was a war that it happened or was happening. The first dream was more of like, I got introduced to like the spear swapping, you know, the cylinder swapping. And like, I remember like some dude like had like peridactal wings.

And I was like, how do I get those? And he was like, oh, this is the last one. You can't find these anymore. And I was like a little bit jealous of that. So it was like more just getting an introduction. The second one. I think it was more exploring. And the third one was like a revelation of where I was.

Okay. So the, so we're dealing with things that don't change and things that do change. So the, the, um, the concept of being in a world where the mechanical cylinders exist and they can be slotted into us physically. And they give us powers, abilities, etc. that seems to remain consistent, but then how you're interacting with that world, what you do while you're there seems to change from dream to dream.

And it's a very natural sequence. I mean, you've told in some ways a three-act story is like, not quite, but in the idea of, you know, introduction to the world, here's how it works, exploring in the world, let's look around, what is it made of? And then the third one is this realization

that these resources maybe are scarce or that there's some kind of conflict, conflict going on as a war of some kind um which makes makes a lot of sense if these resources are you know you said um it was in this third dream that you saw that they're they're running low in a way that there's um you know it's a scarce resource so maybe that's you get you got the impression that's what people are fighting over something else i i don't i don't know that that's what people were fighting over because it it seemed like The impression that I got was everyone had the cylinders that they needed.

And there was some sort of unknown threats. And I kind of felt like in that experience of realizing there was like a war. And the reason why I says I feel like a war had happened or like was happening was because nobody was fighting. There was nobody fighting, but there was also really not many people around. And, and like when people died, nobody took their cylinders. I kind of got the impression of maybe like it only, like you had to be a genetic match or something for certain one. So certain, only certain, what am I trying to say? Specific cylinders only work for specific people necessarily.

Yeah, that was definitely something I got. Sorry, I get quiet. I'm writing. That is interesting, too. So did you ever have an experience in any of the dreams where you were able to, you know, accept someone else's cylinder that they used and they took it out and gave it to you? Does that? Yeah, I did have that. I did have that experience.

What was the nature of that cylinder? What did it allow you to do? It didn't really. change anything. It felt like, the best way to describe it was like, it kind of felt more of like swapping out a depleted battery

for a full one. I know that sounds a little weird. No, no, that's okay. I'm just trying to conceptualize it. So the one that you took out of you, say, was depleted and you received one that was being used. It was in someone else. They took it out of themselves. Okay.

And then they just had an empty slot in them. did you have a sense of why they gave it to you what their purpose was you know they cared for you it felt like we were going to do something and I needed it okay that's um so I mean there's a lot of ways to to understand this what what comes to me or what I'm inspired to mention for whatever reason is it feels like gathering esoteric occult knowledge in a way and then you know because now you can say, no, I'm not feeling that or not, but you've got cylinders and there's a battery comes to my scroll. Scrolls contain knowledge and, you know, USB stick in a way contains information.

A lot of this feels focused on and very much it gives abilities. And, you know, like learning how to make a campfire in Boy Scouts. It's a thing that can be, you know, no one's plugging a chip into your neck and saying, Okay, here's, oh, you see one of my cats. She's getting old. Her legs don't work so good. You know, but they can communicate that information to you. And once you've received it, now it's in you.

And now you can produce the effect that the information allowed you to produce. So if I just stop there and are we on the right track in a way? I mean, I feel like it's possible because I have these three dreams in my early 20s. And at that point in my life, is when I had been thrust into my, you know, occult journey of discovery. That was when I was, you know, a baby in it. You know, I was really just kind of getting into all of it. It wasn't until I got to my very late 20s and now I'm in my mid-30s.

It's like this is when I've become very, at this point of my life, serve myself. and what I'm focused on, what I'm learning, what I'm doing. I'm quite on my path. That much is very certain. But in my early 20s, oh, man. I think that can be said for anybody, even not, you know, studying the occult. That's absolutely the time for uncertain exploration, uncertain what you want in some ways, but certainly uncertain about the thing you're studying.

You lack the knowledge. You got to fill that. cup from somewhere. So, um, uh, what I was going to say is, I mean, and this is all fitting very well. So you've got, you've got this metaphorical idea of, of acquisition of knowledge and skills in a way. And you're conceiving it as, um, a resource in the world that can run out and that once it's been removed, it leaves a, it leaves a scar in a way, it leaves an empty space where that used to be. So there's, when we conceive of information, I can speak words, the information now, you hear the words, and now it's in your head,

but it's not gone from my head. So you're conceiving something differently. This isn't just knowledge or skills. That might be a bad way to put it. It's something being extracted from the world that is no longer there. Like a resource. In a way, like a resource. And then actually something else just struck me as a, and I'll ramble and say stupid shit and

then get a better idea. It may be also representative of you can't learn the same thing twice for the first time. There's a first time for everything. So in a way, if you go out into the world and extract a piece of information, it leaves behind an empty place because it's no longer there to be extracted. It has been extracted. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm thinking of what you're putting down. Yeah.

And I'm not and I don't want you to just follow me because I don't know I don't have a better idea, but it sometimes you got to really feel it, but that might be something along the lines of Where we're going here just it just makes sense to me too because you can't you know as you can't there's a first time for everything and there's only once you can only do do something for the first time once It's a what a scene cannot be unseen in that way unless you have dementia Then you get to learn the same thing over and over again every day but it but it doesn't leave it it leaves an empty place in the world because you can no longer go there to learn that thing ever again. It is gone.

The learning of the experience of learning for the first time is gone. And so I'm trying to tie that into the idea of the war going on. But you got the impression that that war is not over the cylinders. It's not actually not that kind of a war.

It felt it felt, it felt, more like it was some sort of external you know situation like unrelated to mankind

you know like apocalyptic in a sense of like like the best because like the world was like

barren and I and I just I have this feeling in the dreams that the world wasn't always like that like I don't know maybe it could have been

something to do with like you know technology leading to the failure of mankind or, you know, greenhouse emissions, etc. Like, or, you know, something, it was something that couldn't be fought. It was something that couldn't be stopped. Okay.

If I just follow kind of my own thoughts for a moment as I'm trying to tease out what I was relating to, there's a, if you eat a pie, don't eat the whole pie, probably not a good idea. But once in a while you got to eat whole pie. I'm not your father. You do what you want. But there is a, or, you know, the famous expression, having their cake and eating it too. There gets to, there's a, there's a certain, it's like coming home from Disneyland. There's the end of the experience. And you had the experience. You ate the pie, but the pie's gone now. It has been eaten. And there's a certain apocalyptic nature to that kind of a thing, a certain

catastrophe to it in a way of like, it is the end of the experience. It's like a death. It's the death of the period of time where the great, wonderful thing, the learning, the eating, the ingesting had taken place. So just rambling here to try and fill out my thoughts. So I wrote down, you know, like a technological hubris or a climate catastrophe type of field to it where things are, if we relate this to your spiritual journey or occult practice that you desire to know more, we can say. see a connection in, in that idea of, you know, you can imagine the world as a, as a place full of things you can acquire and that once you've acquired them, they're gone. They leave that empty hole where I already took that out. I can't take it out twice. And you can put them in you. That's, that's, that's why I'm leading towards this, this informational side of things because you've got

these, you know, gives you powers to do XYZ. And flight isn't flight necessarily. I don't think you believe, you know, if I find a mechanical rod, I can stick it in my brain and I can fly. I mean, it's not exactly what the dream's, you know, saying. It's more analogous, but, um, so in the first one, you're kind of introduced to this, this concept or this, this, uh, way of imagining or understanding the process. Then you go out and explore in the second dream. Then in the third dream, you're, you're finding that, um, there's something external to this. There's, there's a world, and worlds ending.

is, can mean a lot of different things. You know, close the door and open a window type of thing. I mean, the end of something is also the beginning of something else. We can lament that it's the end of it, but now we're beginning something else. So there's, and the, you know, the, the analogy also to driving home from Disneyland, that kind of thing. Like, that experience, you're now entering a world where, you're, you're now entering a world where, you're leaving one world,

the world of I'm at Disneyland having fun, and you're now entering a new world. So you can mourn that world as having died, that the experience ended. I'll stop there for a second and just let you, if you get your own inspirations to contribute. Yeah, you know, in a sense,

I feel like when I was, you know, perceiving the state of the world around me, it was like, I had this realization and it felt like everyone else realized it with me like in the same time, which is weird because I was the one who, you know, was just realizing the state of the world and everyone else, you know, in this experience, it's already aware of it. Like I'm the new guy, right? But it was like when I realized, you know, the state of the world, it was like the cylinders,

they had no more value. You know, they, like, they were simply, you know, part of the experience. They were part of, of the world, of the overall structure of everything. But they didn't really have any, like the purpose of whatever they originally were meant for was pointless because the world was destroyed, you know? Gotcha, gotcha. Where do we go with that? I wrote down, it's another thought occurred,

me is it, you know, lamenting coming to the end of a specific journey or experience. And then the idea struck me that, you know, the death, seeing your own death in a dream is not a death wish. It's not typically, unless you're actually suicidal in real life. But it's not a death with, and it's not a propheticness. It's not like you're saying you're going to die. We experience a lot of little deaths every time we give up an idea that doesn't work anymore. And sometimes we go through experiences, good and bad, we come out the other side, a different person. The person that we used to be is dead. So death and apocalypse, very, very often related to new beginnings.

But I'm trying to build on what you're specifically, well, I keep elbowing the cat. She doesn't have to sleep on my armrest, but she does. Like, I just have this towel here. Cats will be cats, man. She going to do her thing. At least, at least they're not on my head. I got a black cat. If he wakes up, he's over right, he's right there.

If he wakes up, he will get on my shoulder and put his face right here. And I won't be able to talk to the microphone. And he just, he just wants to rub on me. I can't, I can't blame him. I want him to rub on me. I like that. But yeah, he wants to, he likes to boop noses. I've never had a cat that's that loving.

That's, you know, anyway, that's all off topic. So my, this is probably wrong, but it might get us where we're going. So it wasn't specifically related to, running out of cylinders. Like, like, it, it wasn't a war related to those, to those things at all necessarily. So it wasn't, okay,

one narrative, counterfactual. If this was about lamenting, hitting a wall in your research, I could see that being an explanation. Where in the beginning, it's an unlimited possibility in this, in the, in the continuation, you're doing the exploration and acquisition,

and then he gets to the third part where, oh, no, the cylinders are running out. I'm coming to the end of new things I can learn that excite me and new skills and abilities. I, you know, but it seems like we would need a connection between the war, the apocalypse, and the information running out, which it doesn't seem to be. It seems to be some other, some other thing that's going on. I guess at some point we have to start, and you did a little bit. You started telling me, well, I had these dreams in my mid-20s, then they stopped. I'm in my mid-30s.

And the way you talked about that or described it was what made me think of of that connection of like information acquisition, then lamenting or mourning that at some point you'd run out of new things to learn. But it doesn't seem to be that at all. Well, I kind of took a pivot in my life. So in that period of time. And I'm okay with talking about this because, you know, that information is out there and like it's it's not me anymore. So like I'm totally cool with it.

But I don't know if you're familiar with a man named EA Coedding and the Become a Living God network. No, no, never heard that before. So that's like deep, esoteric, like fringe black magic stuff. So when I was younger, and I was. I started exploring and getting into the occult, I found that I quickly had a strong affinity for having very creative practices and assertive flair and showmanship to what I did. And even before I became somebody that is quite good at what I do, when I was still like, you know, a little neophyte, if you will, I had admirable.

I had followers. I had people that were like, I'm a baby in this. And there were people who'd been in the game for a long time that were looking at me with respect. And I was just kind of like, oh, hi. And I kind of got off the rails a bit. And that's when I met Yang. And Timothy Donahue and all these guys. And I got involved with practices that, you know, led me down a dark road. And, um, had a negative effect on my mental health and got me into some not so fun situations and at some point i realized this is not me what am i doing who am i trying to be right and then i reinvested myself back into the tie esoteric stuff and i started to to turn around not necessarily as a redeem my character type thing but like i kind of realized i was being someone that i wasn't and i was being encouraged along that by people that were supporting me and what I was doing. And I became famous in that field. And it just kind of felt like that's who I needed to be because everyone wanted me to be that. But then I got out of that and I started to do what I wanted to do. I got in a rut.

I was stuck working in the medical field and nursing. I wasn't happy. I hated my life. I did the opposite of what I do now is I'm a nomad by heart, man. I am always traveling. I love the life I live. I could not stay still. I was doing the Susie Homemaker lifestyle. Like, you know, I had a, had a Beyonce and had a full-time job. And, you know, for me personally, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but for me, it was my version of hell.

And so I finally. I pulled the cord and I moved to Thailand. And I really threw myself into all of this. And I became more successful than I'd ever been before. So much so that this is my full-time thing. And I'm so fulfilled. I'm beyond happier than I could have ever imagined being in my life. I'm expecting one day to wake up in this.

a dream, you know what I mean? Like I'm, I'm fulfilled, man. I'm living a life that I never thought I could have. And I love it. That's amazing. I don't know if that added context, you know, helps at all, but it can. The backstory and that's where we are. I think it's all relevant too. So this is, we were talking earlier about like, I don't want to hear anything about your dream ahead of time, because we're going to, we have to discuss it. That's my process. We have to do this. And what it is, is there's a, it's a collaborative thing. We're building an answer together. And sometimes I'm given the mortar and you're giving the bricks.

And sometimes it's the other way around when we get a thing. Okay, long story short on that one. We got to do this because I, I say things and I'm wrong. And then you tell a story. Where did that story come from? Why did that even come into your head? Well, something we've been doing brought us to that point where that needed to be said. And I think it's all relevant to the experience.

If we can figure out how to fit. So my immediate question, as you started talking about that and we got more details, was at what point in that process of switching from being with the living God people, I guess is a shorthand to becoming the, to leaving that, at what point did that third dream happen? Was it before leaving or shortly after? It was like right around. So the fallout of that whole lifestyle, that whole situation lasted for a period of time. And it happened, that last dream happened like somewhere during the fallout. Okay. So it was in that period. But that fallout period was like a year long.

Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. It can be hard to, well, you have a whole life of that life is ending because you're going to now start to do something else. and it's there's there's multiple elements of um there's what you're doing for a living there's and then there's not just you it's a generic you know what you're doing for a living how to earn earn sustenance and a roof over your head where you're doing it and who you're doing it with um and that can be you know friends and family but it's often primary relationships is who you're with you know where you're living location it can be good or bad you can have location based

benefits and negatives um but then also what you're doing to sustain yourself and whether that is inherently fulfilling, whether it's a struggle, whether there's conflicts at work, whether it's, you lose a job or you're, or you're, I feel like you're not making progress in a job. There's all these different layers that go go with those things. So you're dealing with all of that in this disentanglement. There's, there's analogies to war and apocalypse in the dissolution of those, those type of things as well. There's, as we were saying before, it's like, this. is a death of your old self.

There's a, there's a, um, the end of living a particular way is like a, you know, that, that is your, we describe where you live, who you live with and, and, and what you're doing for,

for sustainable, which daily routine, you go to work, you, you know, some people, uh, live in a van by the river and they fish.

That's their sustenance. So it doesn't have to be a working day job. Um, but let's say, you're no longer satisfied with that thing or it blows up on you for another reason and you're thrust out. A lot of people get thrust out. They hang on too long into something that's not working and it falls apart and they're like, well, now what am I going to, well, you're going to have to, you're going to die or you're going to do something else? Most people

don't choose to die. They, they let that world die and they move on to a new world, even if it's all in the same world. We use these worlds, but there's that bounded experience, that category group. So there's something going on in there of like when you were describing it, you say, you were a practitioner in a way. So I would imagine you were, you know, doing rituals or whatnot and acquiring skills, demonstrable skills or abilities or different things. And that seems very analogous to the cylinder type of thing is that, you know, you take this, whatever it is. And you put it in you so that you can then do something with that knowledge, information, training, however, however it might work. So in this period of your time, period in your life, it seems like you were, in the dream, how did you respond to or plan to handle the war apocalypse situation?

What was your thoughts on that? Or did you not have any? So I had this like feeling that, you know, I was going to rush out. and faced, you know, whatever it was that was happening. But then there was this kind of reality check of like, what can you even do it's already done with? Like there's no one man becomes, you know, John Claw, Van Damme here. Like, there's no, you know, like you're not the hero of this story.

Like, you're just, you're thrust into this whole experience and you're part of it same as everyone else. It's like you're no more special, no more gifted. Like we all got fucking cylinders, man. Like we're all doing this, you know, journey together. Like, what are you going to do, man? This, like, this world has ended. Like, you know, so it was like I wanted to rush out there and do something.

But it was that realization of like what I just explained. And also like, what am I actually going to do? Like, like there's no horde of goblins in front of me. to fight like like you know it was just like i remember just staring out at this barren landscape it's like how are you going to fight that what are you going to do for sure oh and that's the other thing i was going to say too so this is you're you're you're stretching my brain here and i love this i love getting thrown curve balls and um it makes it very difficult but i'm also very exciting it's very nice um found a new cylinder um but typically what we do we when i have a guess they tell me

more of a narrative. I was here. I saw that. Then I did this and that happened. And we get a narrative. And I haven't really asked you for that. That's typically something I do. I'm working at it from from the other angle. Okay, let's look at these because there were only three. If there were dozens of them, we may have more of a pattern to work with, but we're actually, we've got a very small, contained chunk of these things. So what, so I'm struggling with it, which is fantastic. This is actually fun. So I'm looking at the idea of your, your first inclination was to fight,

to challenge the death of this thing. And there are times when we, when we want to, when we don't want to give up on something or don't want the hassle of it ending, it might be worth investing time and energy to keep it going. We might fight for the outcome we want or to sustain something we've become dependent on.

So we don't want to give it up because that's a pain in the ass. Or we love it and we want to keep it like fighting to keep a relationship together through rocky times or whatnot. So we might, you know, damn the torpedoes and head in and try and salvage it because, you know, letting it end is not acceptable to us for one reason or another. But your realization was, you know, I guess broad strokes that there really was nothing you could do that there was no as you said army to fight in front of you that you could physically get your hands on it was just a thing and that thing was happening it's a yeah the barren destroyed

landscape like how do you fight that yeah yeah no okay thank you for bringing me back to that that was actually where i was trying to go so usually i get those kind of details when we go through the dream and i would have had you to describe a little more about the was the landscape equally equally barren in the first dream is the third or it became progressively more like by the time you reach the third dream was like wasteland i think that it wasn't in the first one it could have been in the second one but in the second one i was more like in some cyberpunk style like structure of like a city right and like run around exploring and stuff and And the third dream where I had this realization of like the state of the world and the war and everything, I feel like that was the first time I actually stepped foot out of the city.

The first time I actually saw like what is the real condition of where we are. And you didn't. So we've gone over this before, but you didn't feel like the war was caused by the cylinders necessarily. No. But what was I going to say? I had a nuance on that. No. You know what?

Now all of a sudden, I don't know why, and it's apropos of nothing. I just watched the season finale of season two of solo leveling. I don't know if you're watching the anime. Oh my gosh. I am like, you know, I know some people will say, you know, certain things about is the k-thal, like, you know,

animas, but like solo, solo leveling is my number one favorite anime of all time now it's really good season two is even better even better no spoilers yeah oh for the longest time bleach was my all time favorite also a good one yeah which kind of you know if you're my all time favorite if you're a bit of a you know let's say an exorcist practitioner you're like well i can imagine myself you know defeating these evil spirits with a sword too with magic sword why not um for the longest time i resists resisted watching bleach because I'm like I'm not going to watch any of the most popular anime I'm not watching Naratow I'm not watching one piece not watching any of them like I'll give

bleach to try it it was good I enjoyed it you know very good storytelling I'm a big fan of the I'm going to work harder to get stronger and then there's the escalation I love that um he goes all the way back to dragon ball before personally it's like as a whole bleach is great if if you if you go from the beginning and you can see the character development all that, but I think the icing on the cake is the thousand year blood blood war saga. So like, that's when you get

a full appreciation of like everything all the characters have been through and how they've developed and it's not just like some overpower play, you know, of fighting stuff like that. Like, you're like coming into it like a veteran. You're like, yeah, yeah, this is, that's my

Ichigo, you know, like. Oh, yeah. Well, I was, you know, it's so, I literally, this is completely, that's why I just, I'm trying to find my lost thought and all I can see is the battles that are taking place from this anime I watched last night. Dude, so lovely, so good. Oh, so good. You know, and there's a lot of, so we're just going to talk about that for a minute because why not? Why not? We'll come back to the dream, I promise.

But what I love about that is that there's so many anime that have done, there's so many bad animas that. They just, they try to do the formula, but they don't give the, the characters aren't written well, that they're not interesting, the progression, the reason they're fighting is stupid. So they, you know, in, vaguely, no spoilers. I didn't just in case anyone hasn't seen yet, but I was very worried that they were going to, that the story was going to fall apart once certain objectives had been accomplished. And that if it didn't fall apart, it might. fall apart anyway because the character might change to a point where I'm no longer, I'm no longer invested in their motivation. But for this one, you know, they address that. I mean, you've seen season two. They, they addressed his motivation and what he does after a certain

level and then why he changed his mind. And, you know, it's, uh, anyway, that was great writing. Just all of it. Character had, um, I mean, if you watch from episode one to a conclusion of season two like yeah it's an entirely different protagonist like huge yeah not the same person at all and and no and without giving spoilers the way it ended you get the feeling that you're going to see him go through an entirely different arc now again i don't know how they can top it but god i hope they do i mean i don't know how much manga is out there yeah no for sure i mean you can always hope that the the quality of the writing stays the same and you never know it's always crapshoot some some people have shown a track record but uh

with this one it's like i wasn't sure how season two was going to be like is this the end of it is this uh is this season going to get canceled um but that's interesting too because there's why are these things bring it back to the dreams why are those stories why do they appeal to us because they say something about what we actually go through in life there's you know you take out the magic stuff and the and the superhuman abilities and all that kind of stuff. And what you do is, you know, certainly, um, after 20 years in psychology and in the last five, eight years, is, um, specifically focused on dreams.

My skill level has gone up in that. I've felt levels being accomplished in a way that I'm like, wow, now I can do this thing. And, and now I know these things about how to understand, you know, looking at it from different perspectives. Um, So, okay, really, it is related to your dream. That is, there's a, there's a strong analogy to that kind of thing, too, with these cylinders. And we discussed it as acquiring information and skill, specifically, the ability to, to, to, to practice certain things.

And it, it very much feels like, um, okay, if we look at it this way, is your, was the world you were in falling apart? Was there internal battles in that world? And that's part of why you left. Was there an apocalypse of that world of that community? What's kind of ironic about that is I got fed up not necessarily with the community itself, though the community was not good for me, you know, overall like middle health-wise. but what I got fed up with had to do with, you know, my external situations and how all that was affecting me.

And once I left, that community unrelated to me in any way, shape, or form ended up imploding on itself. I mean, people who were involved with it went to jail. They got in trouble. Yeah. They got caught up in some really bad stuff that I had no connection to. but it was just kind of ironic that it was like when I left because my own life was imploding they all imploded together you know it was yeah yeah so we have two two different possible

analogies I mean you uh okay the reason I lean towards the apocalypse so I don't even know where to start with some of these things they have so many ideas and they're trying to phrase it just right is sometimes prophetic dreams are accurate intuitions. And it isn't that everything word for word, scene for scene comes out of the dream and happens in real life. Now, I did have one friend that told me

that is exactly what happened to him and I believe him. But very often it'll be like, we'll know something's coming because we sense it. We can see it because we have experience. We can see the future because we have experience. We know the patterns.

Sometimes we don't know. what, that we can see what's happening. So where's all this going? It's possible. And you can tell me if this resonates that, you know, you may have left for personal reasons, but you may have also seen that an apocalypse was coming for this group. And that there was nothing you could do. You wanted to charge into battle, but there was nothing to fight. There was nothing you could get your hands on. There was no saving this world that you had been a part of. That's one angle. And the other angle is That may have been an analogy to your life more specifically of like there's nothing I can do. There's a, there's a war going on around me.

There's a collapse. There's an apocalypse of my personal sphere of how I'm living and with who and how, and what I'm doing and where I'm at. And that can't be saved. There's, there's things we can fight and things we can't. There's things that are material and immaterial. And so there's no, there's no beating up, you know, a job. that doesn't exist or a relationship that the other person doesn't want to maintain or a lot there's a lot of

things we can't fight because they just they are what they are you know we get we get older and we slow down can't really fight it it just it is what it is we're all going to die so looking at those two possibilities i don't know if they both seem relevant or neither one or one not the other um i you know i think there's certainly you know possibility but you know what was you know the most you know, comical aspect of it was, you know, they didn't realize what was going on with me in my life. They didn't realize that I was imploding. And when the fallout all kind of happened, I pretty much just ghosted everybody. Like I just, you know, just dropped out. And, you know, It was not like, you know, we were all, we had, we had personas online, our faces, everything, like, we had books that we were writing, all this type of stuff.

So, you know, there was, there was something tangible to your character, but as far as real names, where you lived, you know, all of that, a lot of it was all kind of shrouded in, you know, secrecy to an extent. I mean, everyone knew where EA lived in Utah, you know, but, like, nobody's, you know, knew is actual address stuff like that so it was like there was there was kind of like this level of like even if somebody wanted to just straight come to you you know unless you'd already met up iRL they aren't really going to know where you are and so when i ghost everyone it's not like anybody could have just dropped in and you know checked on me anyway but um what was happening with them as well you know, nobody saw it coming. They were on like a successive track of like just leveling up.

And, you know, I mean, it's, it's public knowledge. So it's like, it's not like I can't say this, but like EA got caught with a bunch of meth and like, it's like it was a whole thing. And then there was like one of one of the other guys who was involved with it was like, brave. robbing and like he got in trouble for that and then like one of the other guys um he basically got caught like uh doing a Ponzi scheme and so it was just like it's like nobody knew all of that stuff was happening and they were making money and the network was growing and it was going up and then yeah it all just kind of fell apart and all of those individual people you know probably didn't even know what the others were doing.

Okay. Yeah. So the progression across the dreams, so by the time you get to the end of an experience like that, I mean, you may have been intuitive, like you may have harvested from that world, everything you could out of the, you know,

I gained so much from them. I really did. For sure. And then, but then maybe part of your intuitive sense of it was like, Well, now this place is barren. Now this, you know, in a barren place, it offers no sustenance. It's not a place you can live.

It's not a, there's no, there's no food and water. You know, there's no, nothing to build a shelter out of this. You can't have an existence in a barren place. It has to have its own natural life going there for you to get something out of it. So there may have been something along those lines. And then the fact that the dreams just stopped and it's been a long time. It's like really suggests that it was representative of that time in your life when they did occur. at the beginning of a spiritual journey,

the participation in it, and then recognizing that there was an end coming, whether or not you could articulate it when you were awake or not. I mean, that's another question I was going to ask you, too, as well, is, did you wake up from, say, specifically the third dream with any intuitive knowing about some of it,

or was it just a complete baffling mystery? What is you... Completely baffling mystery. I mean, you know, this is the first time, I'm, you know, in conversation with you that I've made any kind of connection to it, you know, remotely being related to anything in my actual life, you know. That's what I had these dreams. Yeah. I mean, this is good at what you do, man.

You really are. You know. I wasn't going to ask, but I'll take it. Yeah, no, no, it's true. I'm a bit mind-blown, you know. any of these dreams that I had like

I just remember them being like some bizarre sci-fi you know like each time it was like okay like when am I going to go back to that place

you know and and you know I haven't had that you know that that sequence of dreams in years but I've always wanted to go back. And I've tried to like obsessively focus and envision on that world when I go to bed sometimes. And I've never been able to go back. I've never been able to kick that dream into gear

again. Yeah. That's why people have asked me of like, can you can, what do you think of dream programming? You know, like, well, I think it works for some people. And but I couldn't teach you how to do it. And I don't understand. It doesn't work for me. I don't try to go back to that world. Yeah. I kind of envy people that are lucid dreamers. They're like, oh, I'm dreaming. Let's go back to that world. And then. And they do. Like, ah, you bastards. I mean, but that's the thing is I can lucid dream. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Very, very good at lucid dreaming. And I always dream in color, except for one time I had a black and white dream, and it was a nightmare. And I've had nightmares and color as well. But that one was freaking weird, man. Yeah. Very cool. Oh, there's so many, so much, there's like almost an unending well of, self-understanding

you can get out of, out of dreams in this, and we haven't even, we didn't even deep dive into the specifics of what happened sequentially, all of that, all that kind of stuff, trying to keep it broad strokes. Because I thought, oh, I did, I had that, well, I didn't know it, but I had that intuitive sense. It was a broad strokes, bigger picture thing we were trying to figure out, um, on this one. So I was like, well, let's not go too deep. Let's go, let's, let's, let's get the 30,000 foot overview first.

Um, I'm going to say something to it, uh, there's, there's a lot of possibilities. One, discussing this with me and having this experience, we're having together, that dream may come back, you may pop back into it to have a look around. That may now become possible because you've explored it a little more fully. You've brought the, you know, subconscious meanings into more, more conscious analysis. Or the other thought that I had was these, these, returning to that world specifically may be impossible because it is closed because you have left it behind and there may be i don't know that the subconscious is weird it's weird to describe it as something that has its own intent because i don't think

it works like but but it does but it does have some kind of methodology for picking and choosing certain things to throw up and show you and they're always man those cylinders were so cool yeah maybe you need to get a hold of elon and be like okay Hear me out. Cylenders. Maybe he can do something like that or some other guy. But he's working on the neuralink thing, which I don't know how I feel. I don't know how I feel about that.

If it can help blind people see and paralyze people walk, that's fantastic. I don't know if I want to chip in here just connected to the internet. I'm not sure about that. I'm going to wait until a few generations. Yeah, yeah. Don't be an early doctor. Let them work the bugs out. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I don't even download video games on day one. Nope, nope. I learned that mistake with Cyberpump Oh yeah that was that's I wanted to play it And it's you know I almost never buy a game full price I'm like I'm Mr. Steam sale 10 years later It's incredible now Cyberpump

After all the updates now it is outstanding I mean I love me some Kianu and I love that whole that whole genre I used to play of course D&D and I played GERPS Which was the like a Ninja Turtles style role playing game and I did a few cyberpunk and um vampire the masquerade

gaming sessions back in the day we're talking 30 years ago but it's been a while now I just do video games I had the temptation to jump remember game city of heroes does that sound familiar I'm not familiar with that one one of the um numerous MMOs that are out there it's basically you know you get to design

your own hero is he uh is he a wolverine fighter is he a Hulk tank? Is he a flying blaster? That was my character. There was magic creatures and mutant creatures. It was all this MMO set in like modern times. So you're flying around cities and other landscapes. I'm more of like a divinity original sin too kind of guy.

Fair enough. Yeah, no, no, I just want a long story short on this one. This was just I had this temptation yesterday or this morning. I can't remember which it was to this guy was talking about, oh, I'm really enjoying city of hears. I'm like, I played that 20 years ago. It's still around. And now I want to get back.

You know, no, no, you will play 12 hours a day. You will stop doing any other work. Don't do it. I can't. I got to cut myself off MMOs. Well, speaking of cutting things off, we are hitting about the two hour mark. And I don't know if there's, if we got enough for you to think about, if you feel like we've reached some kind of a conclusion in giving a description of what's

happening. if you have additional questions. I'm always open to, you know. Yeah, I feel like that's about as good of an explanation as we could get on something like that early. I mean, for sure we could probably pick apart some intricacies, but even with the broad strokes, you know, I'm quite surprised.

I didn't, you know, think that, you know, I'd ever have some sort of, you know, understanding of that dream. It's just this cool sci-fi world that I found myself in, you know. But, you know, I can see, I can definitely see the correlations, especially with, but I, it's a period of my life. I don't really think back on much, not because, you know, I fear it or I'm running for it or anything, but it's just not been relevant to me.

Yeah, yeah, I've definitely moved on. Died and been reborn, you know, so to speak, you know. Yeah. definitely that's kind of like me but thinking back on my uh uh less than entirely pleasant high school experience like that was yeah 30 year 35 years ago i'm not that person anymore that world is long dead uh so it has no emotional impact anymore even if i think back on it and remember it i'm just i'm over it that's been there done that's gone long long in the past my my early 20s were probably um honestly some of the worst years of my life and now because i'm

I'm living a life I never would have imagined I could have. You know, it's not even that I dreamed of having this life. I didn't know I could have a life like this. Like, why would I dwell on all that? You know, it's just for sure. So irrelevant. Unless there's something of value to be gained from reflecting on the experience, which maybe there was in this, in this dream sense of just at the least getting,

getting a new starting point for thinking about it. Like that's because you're going to, this doesn't end when we turn off the camera. It's like, you are still you. you have this experience. You've now have new thoughts branching off that you can follow or not that'll give you better. I mean, go ahead. I know I'm going to process. You know, and but the one thing I can definitely say, you know,

permanently as a takeaway right now is like, well, I think I got more. out of that part of my life, then I maybe realize, you know. I think where I've been mostly recently, I've seen more value in, you know, these past few years. And I think I might have discredited the value of some of the things I got from even the darker chapters of my life. Definitely. Yeah, no, I think it's very true. I can't tell you how many times I thought I was moving one direction.

Some catastrophe happens, either my fault or not, and everything changes in a very unpleasant way. The process of change is unpleasant. And then I get down the roadways and I look back on it going, I'm in a better place than I was when I thought I was doing okay. And I had to go through catastrophe to get there. It blows me away how many times that exact process has played out in my life of like, sometimes things need to fall apart because something better is coming. And the only way to get there is to go through that bad stuff that then also gives you additional skills and experiences that help when you get where you're going.

If that doesn't make you think there's a God's got a plan, I don't know. It's just, it's hard, hard to say. And I'm not a hard liner on that. And I'm not, you know, Bible thumping anybody. But whatever, however you conceive of God. And then you go through those experiences of like, okay, now I get thanks. Thank you. I wouldn't have done that voluntarily, but now I get it. I feel like, you know, as somebody, it's funny because, you know, I consider myself to be an atheist more than anything else.

And even given what I do, so many people get confused by that. And I'm like, I can't make it make sense to you. But things that are logical for me, I have my reasons and I've done my research and I've had my experiences. that have shown these are logical things to me. Can't give that to someone else, right? Yeah. Plus cognitive dissonance is a bitch, you know? It is.

So, but, you know, I say that is like, you know, the best that I've been able to subscribe to and I can't get away from is that there does appear to be some sort of sentient structure to everything. Whether we put a label on it or we identify it to, you know, some sort of point. That's not for me to say, but there is some sort of indiance in the structure of all.

That much, I'm sure. For sure. Yeah. Confusingly referred to myself in the past as an agnostic atheist deist and all of these things at once, you know, like I think, I think there is, there's a source for everything that's here. And in my estimation, that source says, let there, let there be a big bang and evolution. Go ahead. But it came from somewhere, this unmoved mover philosophically.

But I'm atheist in that I don't subscribe to a specific religious subset under that. Like, I couldn't tell you, I couldn't describe the face of God, so to speak. But also agnostic in that I'm open, I'm open either way. Tell me more. Maybe I'll, you know, so I don't have a. firm faith in any philosophy, but I think there's got to be some kind of a god out there. Big G, little G, however you want to describe it. So I put all that together.

And that leaves me wide, it leaves me wide open to being fascinated by all these different religious traditions. I think they all have something different to learn. Even, you know, what we call mythology, which was current modern religion, 2000 years ago, et cetera, et cetera, Babylonians, Greeks, you know, they actually, they went to the temple and they sacrificed the ox and they believed something good was going to come of it. And a lot of times it did. And sometimes it was just social cohesion.

This is what we all believe. This is how we all behave. That can be very powerful too. So a religion that just holds you together, even if it's complete BS, often functions very effectively to do what it's intended to do. So I don't worry so much about whether things are real or true in that sense. Like, does it work? I just, I like the exposure of culture and other people's experiences and beliefs.

And I don't think that anyone has to believe. and someone else's, you know, subscribe beliefs to take part in part of, take part in the experience to feel some sort of semblance of what those people are believing for, you know? Absolutely. Like, I'm not a Muslim, but like I have had a very fulfilling experience in studying Islam and befriending, you know, Muslims in Malaysia. and I don't believe personally in really that as much as Christianity or Judaism or anything else, but like sign me up for diving in and learning more.

For sure. And that's a great great that just made me think of it. In my next book coming out, whenever I get around to it, it's another anthology set where I'm, and one of the pieces of it is specifically an analysis of, Islamic dream interpretation. That'll be, that'll be the opener for the next, for the next book.

It was a fascinating read. A lot of historical figures I'd look up. So that's, what are you doing, Kat? She's having a hard time over there. That's okay. She'll figure it out.

Well, if you feel like we've gotten as, as good of an answer as we're going to get for the time being, we'll wrap it up. All right. All right. Good deal.

Well, then I will say to, to the audience out there, this has been our guest, Dreamer Sadu Da, from Thailand, where he's a professor of Southeast Asian occult history and practice or an ajarn, as they say there. You can find him at the sadu da.com. He's got links to his YouTube and his blog and everything at that site.

That link is, of course, in the description below. For my part, let's put that down. Would you kindly like, share, and subscribe to tell your friends. Always need more volunteer dreamers. I play video games. Most days Monday through Friday, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific. This episode brought to you in part by ABC Book 4, O'Neuro Chronology of Volume 2, part of a three-volume set, soon to be expanded with the next release of an anthology of

shorter works of historical dream literature. All of a sudden more, of course, at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, including downloadable MP3 versions of this podcast, encyclopedia, etc., etc. and if you'd head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard. Dot locals.com. It is free to join attached to my Rumble account. Best place to reach out to me if you have a dream to share. And after all that, I'll just say, Sadu, thank you for being here. This has been fun, informative, entertaining, all kinds of good stuff.

And to everybody out there, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.