Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 202: The Secret Language

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Inna Segal ~ https://www.innasegal.com/

I appreciate you saying that, too. The idea that, you know, the whole spiel I go through beforehand does make you feel better. Number one, that's the primary purpose. I want you to usually have a little bit longer to, like, say, talk to people and establish a bit of a comfort level. But at least I can run through the basics and say, here's the strict ethical standards I put around it too. And then it's always nice when the guest says, hey, I appreciate that. And it makes me feel good. Greetings, friends.

And welcome back to another episode of Dreamscapes. Today our guest dreamer is Inna Seagal. She is a pioneer in the field of energy medicine and human consciousness and the bestselling author of The Secret Language of Your Body, which has been translated into 26 languages and has sold over a million copies worldwide. You can find her at Inna Seagal.com. That's I-N-N-A-S-E-G-A-L. Link will be in the description below. For my part, very briefly, I'll try and keep it brief. This never goes brief.

You didn't expect me to prepare, did you? I don't do that. Would you kindly like, share and subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers. I do video game streams Monday through Friday most days, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific. Currently playing I, the Somnium Files, which is a Japanese visual novel. It's not usually my style. I'm usually like bang, bang, shoot them up, hack and slash type games. But this one's very interesting. There's a mystery to be solved.

And it relates to dreams. I usually don't go that much. into detail about that, but check it out. I think it's very fascinating. This episode brought to you in part by ABC, on your screen right here, ABC Book 18, Oneero Chronology, Volume 4, Prima Rolloquorum, the first of what remains,

part of an addendum to the original trivium, collecting more shorter works of historical dream literature that will not make a full book of their own that I'm comfortable, so I'm not going to sell you 100-page book. So I took 300-page books, put them into one, and you've got a 325 page book with three books inside of it.

Very proud of myself for these anthology collections. That's enough about that. Of course, you can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com, including downloadable episodes of this very podcast, so that you may take the wizard with you, wherever you wander with or without Wi-Fi. And last but not least, if you'd head on over to Benjamin the Dream Wizard.

Dot locals.com. It's free to join attached to my locals account. One of the best ways to get in touch with me if you have a dream and you don't have to be anybody special. You have to be a human who speaks English and has dreams. Those are my requirements and we can make an episode. You don't have to have a bestselling book. You don't have to have a podcast of your own. Just reach out and talk to me. We'll get it done. That is more than enough out of me. And I thank you for being here and being patient with

my long-winded housekeeping. Thank you, Benjamin. You have fantastic hair. I am a little bit jealous. Mine is kind of, it's getting longer, but I wish I had those waves. Oh, that's so nice. It's beautiful. I normally don't comment on my guess appearance, but I can't stop staring at your hair. It's fantastic. It reminds me of a girl I knew when I was a, when I was a teenager, one of my first crushes, probably. Oh, she probably knows. She would know who she was if I said her name, but anyway, okay, I'm going to stop. Let's make this awkward right away. That's fantastic. Let's talk about your book instead. So you've got, you've got the secret language of your body. And it's one of those things where once you're able to explain it to people, I bet it doesn't sound so much.

mysterious. What is it? There was a, okay, I talk too much. We're going to get to you, I swear. There's a, one of my favorite musicals from the 90s, it was called Into the Woods. And the narrator also played a part of some other side characters that don't really get their own story, the father of one guy that disappeared and says, when first I appear, I seem mysterious, but once explained, I'm nothing serious. Oh, my God, that stuck with me. Why do I remember things like that? So let's talk about you. I'll turn it over to you. Let's talk about your book. What is the secret language of the body and how do we tap into it? Well, it's all about, I guess, connecting to the wisdom, kind of like the dreams that you're not consciously aware of until you start asking questions and exploring and realizing that every part of your body has wisdom inside of it. And it's constantly trying to communicate with you through sensations, through pains, through repetitive thinking, through dreams at times.

through feelings, you know, and some of those feelings could be, you know, anxiety or overwhelm or anger or fear or depression. And essentially the body in itself is calling you back, I would say back to your soul, back to understanding why you're here and what really works for you in terms of your life, you know, how to live your life and what doesn't. and so the question is how else would we know if we didn't have any feedback mechanism? And so the secret language of your body is not that secret once you connect with it and discover it. And what I find also is that a lot of people rather than befriending their bodies and including myself earlier on and working with it and trying to understand and saying, well, what is it showing me?

well, you know, and so much of the body is so logical. So when we actually understand that, you know, the brain and the head is about thinking. So when things break down here, we need to ask questions about what am I thinking? And how am I thinking has this affecting my head area and my brain and my ability to concentrate and all the things that come with thinking. And then if we look at our throat or thyroid, which, is a big issue for a lot of people, especially as they get older. It's like, well, how am I communicating?

Am I communicating in a way where other people can really hear me and respond? Or am I shutting down? Because when I was younger, and I'm big into archetypes. And I think you are as well, you know, and Jungying understanding. I'm very much attempting to embody the wizard archetype. That's what I think I'm doing. I'm trying. Yeah. And so when we start to understand that if we, it's not just about communicating, it's how we're communicating and whether it's healthy or unhealthy, or where we shut down when we were younger and now we're afraid of saying things. And so now we're going to start creating blockages and issues inside our throat thyroid ability to express ourselves. Essentially. And then, you know, so, you know, so,

As we're looking at each part of the body, we're going, what's it for? So it's like the heart keeps us alive, obviously. But it's also an organ of intimacy. We know that. There's so much we know. You know, it's about love. It's about connection. So as much as people say that it's about food, you know,

where your heart and your utter is get hardened. And maybe there is an aspect of it, but it's on the whole story. It never is. It's so much about, you know, you know, how was I treated? How am I treated in my relationships? How am I treating others? What did I see when I was growing up in terms of my relationships

that I am now subconsciously or unconsciously expressing? And this is where I also feel like when we go deeper, we start to see that all the different parts of us are actually connected to archetypes that hold stories, that hold timelines that hold layers of emotions and belief systems and perspectives. And so when we start to understand that, we start to understand the language of the body, which is metaphoric and archetypal and, you know, and emotional and kind of tells you what's going on without talking to you.

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, in the way that we would speak, but talking to you constantly in another way. And so what I did essentially is I wrote a book that I wanted to have. And this is how I feel whenever I've written a book, because I've written several, where it's like, is there a book like that? And if, you know, and if there isn't, I'm going to do the research, I'm going to kind of discover it because I want this book. I want to have it available. And so in the secret language of your body,

what I originally looked at was that every part of the body, like if we have illness or if we have pain, it's somewhere in the body and that part of the body speaking to you. And so the first section of the book is all about understanding it. And people often skip that section. It's the most important because if you don't understand it, you're not really doing it properly. you know, doing the processes.

And the second section is about understanding all the parts of your body and what they're saying, but also giving you processes where you can use all of your senses, so to speak, whether, and what I realized, Benjamin, is that everyone connects in a different way. So some of us are more visual, some of them more auditory, some of us are more kinesthetic. And so I tried to use all of those different faculties that we have and create these simple but layered processes for each part of the body that people could get to know themselves and ask questions and, you know, do pressure point and breathe and visualize and move their bodies

so that, you know, they're embodying the whole experience. And that's what I found was really, missing in other books at that time when I wrote it, which was a while ago, which were kind of similar in, you know, they were very basic and they'd given information and they'd give a couple of lines, but I needed more. And so, you know, so the book is broken up in sections of body parts and then a section on diseases and then there's a section on color and how color impact our lives. And then there's a section on, in particular our emotions, on emotions and understanding our emotions and how it affects us and our body. And then the last section is all

about the systems of the body and the lessons we're meant to learn from them. And so yeah, that's what the books are out. That's a lot of great. Well, it's almost a good thing in some ways that you left things out of previous books. Otherwise, you would have had nothing to write now. You know, and it's impossible unless you're, like, setting out to make it your life's work to write one all-inclusive book that covers everything. You would have to wait until you're 80 to publish it. Otherwise, you do the best you can. You get the information out. You can.

You share the best understanding you can. That's like me with doing the dream interpretation thing. I just started with a little innate talent, I think, and some dedication. And, you know, here we are, episode 202. And 800 more to go. I'll be a real wizard. Which is a great segue as well, because, okay, so as much as I, as I'm a, you know, I call myself a wizard and I tell people I'm just some crazy person on the internet who

thinks he's a wizard in real life. I am, as I said, attempting to embody that, that archetype. And one thing that struck me as you were talking is that these archetypes didn't come from nowhere. They built up over time. It's not like we invented an idea and then tried to retcon human behavior into it. It evolved out of observations of human behavior. So these things come from somewhere. Speaking of that as well, the broader, okay, no, let me, let me follow about thoughts in order. I'm going to get completely lost. I actually took notes, which I almost never do. I'm trying to do more often. So people hear the word energy medicine or whatever, and they think immediately they dismiss it, spooky woo. And what I, not everybody, a lot of people, a lot of people

who are hard science, facts and data, don't talk to me about spiritual stuff. But for me, I don't dismiss it. It's just not my specialty. I bring a very psychological, almost medical model to, with a heavy dose of mysticism. Don't get me wrong, but to my, to my dream work. And that's where I stay in my wheelhouse, because that's what I think I understand. So there's, there's that barrier. A lot of people have to jump across. But another barrier is, is getting past the resistance of treating pain like a friend. Pain lets you know when something's wrong. Doesn't mean pain is pleasant. Pain is the opposite of pleasant, but it's for a reason, worry, anxiety, pain, fear. All of these things exist to, as a signal to let us, and they are a completely non-physical signal unless you're going to be

pedantic and say, well, it's actually neurons firing. I know it's neurons firing in the brain, but it's not, but the experience of it, the sensation of it is something else. And it's something to very much pay attention to. And I think we, uh, we get that on an instinct, well, we get that on a gut level. And that's a funny turn of phrase, because that is something we all, that phrase itself is something we all instinctually understand. You get a gut feeling. Your heart, uh, she broke my heart. My heart hurts. And you do. You feel. feel it in your chest. I got butterflies in my stomach. Why do we feel emotions in our viscera? It's there for a reason and it's not imaginary and it's not spooky woo. It's a very real thing.

We're just using these encapsulated metaphorable memes. We're using memes to communicate these ideas and over time and that's where you get archetypes memes that remain true over time and you get archetypal human experiences. Last thing I'm going to throw it back to you. you mentioned in your book, and this is one of the greatest things I love about books, is there's books that are written explaining things, and explaining things is wonderful. But then there's, sometimes that leaves you wanting more into, okay, now what do I do? And what you've included, you said, is ritual or practice for things you can do practically. And the immediate word that popped into my head is that that is the, that is what I would consider

spellcasting as much as telling a narrative is spell casting there's also like we we think of if you go in your head and you look at well what is a what is a wizard do how does a witch make a potion or how does a wizard you know draws a draws a circle on the ground and chance magic where there's a ritual to things and the ritual is not unnecessary it's not window dressing the ritual is the practice it's the it's the it's what we do every day on a daily basis that puts us in the right focus it prepares our body and our and our and our and our senses to align with what we're trying to accomplish. And that goes for meditating in the morning to clear your mind so you can focus on what you're going to do.

And it goes to the athlete that every day at 5 a.m., he's up and he's running. He's training, he's doing the ritual of athletic motion to train his body to then perform on command. And the more you are dedicated to ritual, the more you get out of it. You've just got to make sure you're picking the right rituals that actually have some benefit. I don't know if you wanted to talk more about that, the practice of it and how that gets us in connection with our body. Well, absolutely.

I said a lot. I'm sorry. Honestly. I believe that ideally, you know, it becomes your lifestyle to be connected. So it's actually all about connection as opposed to disconnection. So when we don't have what you call rituals, we're just, we're like the wind. and we're moved into so many directions, right? Like, that we don't have a centre.

And that's what I see with a lot of people where it's just, they get so well, I'm so stressed out because they don't have this central way of going, so how do I connect back? How do I bring myself into myself, so to speak? And it starts from the moment you wake up. So like you said, for a lot of people, it's meditation or it could be, and meditation could be so different, you know, meditation could be connecting into the body and just going, what's going on,

how do I feel inside my body? Or it could be what's going to happen today? How do I, how do I create my day in a way where I'm aligned with it and it flows? Or it could be, how do I remember my dreams? or it could be how do I connect to my own divinity and pray or, you know, my, like my personal meditation is about connecting to divinity and strengthening my sense of self from the moment that I wake up because it gives me vitality and energy. And so everything, you know, it's so important to do, but then it is also important to do, but then it is also

important to do during the day. And what I say to people is you can also make it fun and you can connect it to link it to the things that you already do. So you have a shower, right? Everybody has a shower in the morning or hopefully they do. And so as you're having a shower, you can take a moment and connect to your body. You know, you can have a practice of just going, what's happening to me? Like, where am I at today emotionally? Rather than just ignoring it and numbing it and actually just acknowledge it

because, you know, what is cleansing and it's a great place to acknowledge and let go of things. You might, you know, I've had a practice at different times depends when I wake up and who else is around of playing particular songs, you know, that in the shower where you just allow yourself to move and connect to the music and to the song. You know, you can do that when you're brushing your teeth. You know, you can, so you can have a practice throughout the day

where something doesn't have, you know, you can ground yourself for, you know, and be in it or go outside and just connect to nature just before you sit at your computer. You know, you can, like, there's just just. so, so much to do. And when I was writing these processes, I was really trying to look at, again, what every person could do. And I kind of thought, look,

if they can't visualize, they can ask themselves questions and they can maybe journal, or they can talk about that, or they can do a letting go process, or they can move their body, or they can press a point on their body, you know and repeat some words you know that that help them to let go and and and it just became

that was probably the funest part of writing the book is actually creating these processes and then I had this experience where um because you just never know with books right what's going to happen I was um in Slovakia and I never thought about this country when I wrote the book I never even knew was it existed to be fair. Like I never, you know, it never came into my consciousness. And then I had this lady and she was like, you have to come to Slovakia. And I was like, no, I'm busy. You know, I'm traveling all around the world. I have no time. And she was like, I am not taking no for an answer. You have to come here. And I love people like that. Because if they do that, I'm like, okay, well, you know, I, okay. I'll see what happens. Sure. Yeah. You know, I'll figure it out.

And so when I came, she said, well, you know, you're going to have to do a book signing. And I was thinking, oh, my God, because with book signings, it could be, especially in a country, you know, where nobody knows you. And it's a different, you know, language to English. You're like, could be a lot of people that show up, or could be no one. You know, I'm already tired. I'm already traveling. Do I want to do this extra thing? And she was like, no, no, you've got to do it.

And so it was at this shopping center and I came and there was this massive line. And I thought, okay, wow, interesting. This is going to be interesting. And the first lady who came up to me, she said, oh my God, I've been waiting for hours to speak to you. I'm a nurse. And I've had your book for, you know, it must have come out a couple months before I was there. And she said, and I've been using it on myself. and my family and, you know, my clients.

And she said, I just wanted to tell you that it works and thank you so much for writing it. And I just had this moment where I was like, oh my God, I would have never thought, you know, that somebody in a country that I didn't really think about had, and who was a nurse on top of that, would have had such an amazing experience. And then I was speaking to somebody literally two weeks ago, just a friend of mine was like you've got to meet this lady you've got to meet this lady and so you know I went to meet her and she was like oh I'm about to open up this wellness center and I'm going to have this doctor and he said to me the first product we're going to have is your book because he loves

your book and as a doctor he tells everybody to buy it and he always you know opens it and looks it is just so beautiful to have those experiences where you go, as you mentioned about medical professionals before, that they're actually starting to see that there are so many connections and that we need to have some responsibility for our health, not just give it to the doctor, but also come back and ask our own questions and start to go, I can start to change my life and heal myself as well. Absolutely.

Oh, there's so much good stuff. And they're just on the last end of it. It's not pushing too much on the doctor, but taking some responsibility for ourselves. And part of that is the responsibility to say, I'm going to be brave enough to admit I don't understand and ask for more of their time. I don't get it. Please explain more. Instead of going, okay, if you say so, and not really understanding it and not wanting

to advocate for yourself and say, Look, if I don't understand this, how do I know if I'm doing it right? How do I know if I understand the instructions if I don't have any idea what he's saying? So there's that at the very least. But going back a little bit, you'd mentioned earlier, and I say this all the time, but you know, how do I conceptualize dreams and what's going on with them? I say the lungs breathe, the heartbeats and the brain thinks. And before we're born until the moment we die, it's always doing that awake or asleep.

And then a sleep is when a lot of those processes go on automatic, or at least they're not filtered through. There's a game that people play on the internet called, you are now manually breathing. Now you're aware of your breath. You're no longer breathing normally. Now you're choosing when to inhale and exhale. When before it was happening completely,

we'd say unconsciously, but without you attending to it and managing the process actively. So this fits in with my concept of dream interpretation. It goes to Jung's collective unconscious, which I think part of that is also just the unconscious in general of every human. And what we've got in our body is a record of every physical experience we've ever had. And that includes the physical experience of emotions and thoughts. And most of it, we got to filter out. Sometimes we have a big problem with our brain's actually designed to really

tunnel vision so we can focus on what we're doing at the moment and do it very well. So we're actually filtering out like 99.9% of every signal that's coming in. And there's a big problem with knowing how to shift that focus once we've learned to feel our bodies in a certain way and guide our thoughts in a certain way, learning what is an extraneous versus a relevant signal can be very difficult. Sometimes that takes some retraining. And a lot of psychology is, well, let's look at, this is why, you know, Freud gets so much credit and scorn, but he's saying a lot of it goes back to our early childhood experiences. How did you learn to understand yourself in the world and interpret those experiences?

and then implement functional or dysfunctional behavior. So it's what we're trying to do is kind of retrain people that that's not working for you. But you don't know anything else. That's the chaos you're comfortable in. Let's go where you're uncomfortable, which is a new kind of order. So part of it is our brain is a machine designed to filter out a lot of the sensory input that it's getting. And we've got to retrain that kind of thing. I think I wrote down half the notes I was going to say.

That might be the end of it right there. But giving people a method or a practice. Okay, start here. Try this. See what happens. And there's a lot of people who can't, and I'm one of them, sit still and meditate. Oh, my brain's crazy. I meditate best when I'm doing a repetitive thing with my hands.

I'm mowing the lawn, listening to a podcast, and floating on ideas. They come and go. I don't hold on to them. I just let it be what it is. To me, that's very different than the I must sit at the base. of a waterfall low disposition and exist in complete silence for hours at a time. It's never going to work for me. I can't do that.

So it's also adapting these methods sometimes to what you're able to do. If you can't meditate an hour a day, you do it for 10. If you can't do it in the morning, you do it at night. You know, whatever the intervention is, you kind of adapt it to your needs. And I said a lot there. I'll probably just throw it back to you. You probably have some commentary. I'm a terrible interviewer.

I don't have questions. I just have conversations. Sorry. I love. I guess, you know, what you were talking about having a bit of a map for people and a bit of a way of exploring something. And that's essentially what I talk about a lot is starting to understand things and looking at, you know, stages of development, for instance. So from my experience, we're looking at the first 21 years that you have, right, you are developing. You're learning, you're discovering, everything is pretty new.

And there's a lot of kind of like, oh, this is new. I'm discovering, I'm understanding, and who am I, and so on. But from as we get older, we actually start to go in this process of repetition or recycling, you know, going through the cycles again. And often we go through seven-year cycles where we're looking at, where we're re-experiencing something, but we don't necessarily recognize our understand it. And this is why when we're looking at giving people a map or an archetypal map, I just did this sessions with people, which I've never done before in a sense where, you know,

I had, let's say, you know, 50 people on Zoom. And they would ask questions about their health or their issues. And I would tune into them because that is an ability that awakened inside of me when I was 21. And I would try and help them to figure out where is the starting point? Like, what's your starting point? And it was really interesting because for some people, it was very, very clear. It's like, you need to go back to your childhood. You need to revisit.

it and for some of them it was literally from from the womb like what is it that you you're holding that has nothing to do with you that's completely ancestral but you're making it yours and you need to figure it out to separate it and then for others there was a lady there and she has done some work with me before and she did a child course that I taught and she was in her maybe late 70s and she said well you know I have this osteoarthritis and I'm trying to do this in a child work and it's unwacking and I'm like okay when did it start and she said well you know 20 years ago and I was saying okay but what was happening what I heard before it started you know in those years maybe leading up to it and she said well I was you know she was a nurse and she was

a midwife and she said well I was fired and I was basically told I was too old and I was shut down and I and I was like right so now your starting point if you want to work on that issue is not in a child like that's not what it's about this is actually about two parts of you one the feminine part of you which was holding space for women and nurturing women and supporting them through birth and that was shut down and you know and it was shot down by men they told you that you couldn't do it anymore and so this is and I said to her as I'm looking and tuning into her I see this feminine archetype and she's literally bending down like she she has no it's like all the air was taken out of her all the structure that she had and this is so you need to

if you're going to work on your bones, you know, and structure, you need to work on this part of you. But the masculine is also about the spine and the bones and moving forward. And it's like making things happen. So it's actually both that you need to work on, but not at the same time. You know, and so what people don't realize, and this has been a big issue, for instance, is firstly, where to start. starting point is so confusing for so many people because like you were saying as well we either overgeneralize or we over focus on something and we don't necessarily go well let me expand my mind and start to explore why something happened or when or what it's about

for me because I'm not the same as everyone else, which is where the medical system needs to change and what it taught us is that it doesn't matter who you are. You know, you get the same medication if you have a headache like most other people. You know, there's like a couple of medications and you, everybody has, you know, takes the same. You know, you get similar medication for all sorts of problems, even though your journey to it was completely different to my journey or somebody else's journey. And so to me, this, you know, wellness is knowing you and actually starting to go where I have the issue now is not my focus, but actually discovering, firstly, I need to specify and start with one issue and then I need to discover.

where is it likely to have began and start exploring from there? And this is what I teach people essentially. Because even to do that, you have to sensitize yourself. You know, you kind of have to go, well, my body needs to show me some of this. Or I need to actually understand, like I'm giving an example of that not everything starts from childhood for every issue. That's an extremely valid point. Yeah, the idea that sometimes your life was going pretty well and you had things figured out until a specific traumatic event happens.

And it doesn't behoove everybody to say, let's start with your relationship with your mother when really what happened to me was a bad thing about 10 years ago. And my life has been worse since then because you haven't been able to make sense of it, integrate it, change, focus and direction. So let's say you get a lady that you were talking about there. And I'm kind of making up the circumstances in my head a little bit of where. Let's say she got old enough to the point where she wasn't physically capable of doing the work that she loved anymore. And she had that opportunity taken away from her. Let's say it was unjustified or justified either way. There is, there becomes, it is an apocalypse of sorts is how I like to.

Is it the end of one thing in the beginning of something else. And we can, we grieve the death of the old world that we lived in, our old sense of who we are and what gave us value. And we have to invent something new. And as you were saying, it's like this idea that she held space for women and nurture. And it's like, how can I do that same thing in a different way? Because this old door is closed. And many times in our life, it's through no fault of our own that doors get closed. Personality conflicts, a business shuts down.

We just, we get older. You know, for me, at some point, I'm not going to be able to, you know, what is it? Every Rocky needs a trainer to get him. And the trainer can't fight. He's not the fighter. He was when he was younger, but now he's the teacher. And he's just not as kid, but he knows. And he can help the person develop better.

So maybe that's your, I think we've lost, especially for women, a sense of how to age well, how to age gracefully. As much as we worship youth and beauty for obvious reasons, but primarily the potential, what will this become? If you become nothing, well, we call it wasted. But at a certain point, even if you become something great, your ability to, carry on with that physically just deteriorates. We all die. Our bodies all fall apart. So I'm trying to bring back the, at least idea of ancient Greeks. It's Clotho atropos and Lacasus, and I don't remember which order they're in. I think Clotho's the young one. I think Lecasis is actually the old one. Anyway, but it's maiden, mother, and crone. The women go through these, you know, at the very

beginning you're a young woman and then there's there's a period of motherhood and that can be physical children or creating a business or a life for yourself what gener what are you generating in that space and then at the end of it is is what are you giving back what what now wisdom do you have to communicate and you're no longer expected to generate and you're no longer expected to be young and beautiful but that's it's gotten distorted in these days in a way that i think is toxic for everybody involved that now Madonna in her 60s is trying to have the beauty when she was in

you know in her 20s in the 80s not going to happen you got to give up on that you just start looking like these women getting their the buckle bucle fat on their cheeks sucked out and they start looking like you know cadavers is like this is not you don't need if you're listening to the sound

of my voice right now you do not need to do that you don't need that it's my opinion you do what you want but I don't think that helps anybody and I think It's a victim of a kind of a sick culture in a way. I'm going way off on a tangent. We're actually running at a time if we're going to do the dream thing for you. Did you want to shift gears?

You ready for that? Yeah. Okay, good deal. Let me make a quick note here. Zero. I said a moment of panic. I looked at it and the live stream button said, you're not recording or you're not streaming at all. No, no, no.

I'm recording. I'm not streaming. Moment of panic. Okay. So as per my usual process, I'm going to shut up and listen. Our friend Inna is going to tell us her dream, like just a story, a brief narrative, and then we'll see if we can figure it out together. So I'm ready when you are.

Benjamin the Dream Wizard wants to help you. Here's the veil of night and shine the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams. Every episode of his Dreams program features real dreamers, gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions. New Dreams episodes. appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience and much, much more.

To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms and through the contact page at Benjamin the DreamWizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon, documenting the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. Okay.

So I had this dream and parts of it in sort of different ways have been repetitive. And the dream was... I was in this really, really long garage. And on one side, there was this table with, you know, food and celebration. And my family was there, my children, my mom, friends or other people that I'm aware of. And we were kind of celebrating and having a really great time. And then on the other side, which seemed a lot darker and a lot further away,

my ex-husband was there, and he, so he was packing a car, and it was kind of like quite a small car, not necessarily one he ever drove before, but it was like he was packing all his stuff away. And then it was all in the shadow and darkness, and then he came to find me, which was surprising. And he and I haven't spoken for quite a while.

And he interestingly appeared and looked like he did when we first met. So he was quite young looking, which he's not as young looking, more and he had also that energy of somebody very youthful and and how he was when I met him which was um very in some ways um how would I call it in some way seductive in some ways very um like he he made you feel like he manipulative but in a way that makes you feel like you would do what he wanted you to do. So he, I was a little uncomfortable and shocked that he was even there and then he kept trying to pull me away from, from everybody celebrating and to his car.

And then he started telling me that he had left his married now. so he had left his wife because he was mean to him and controlling. And I've had other dreams where he's said those types of things and he's kind of come out of nowhere and was trying to get me to connect with him. And then at one point he found my mom, and my mom's definitely not a fan of him, but he found her in the party. And he was convincing,

so he was convincing me to go away with him, to get in the car with him and to go, go away. And then he told my mom that, he said, oh, we're going to get remarried. And I was like, whoa, no way. And at the same time, I was kind of saying, hey, I have a partner. he's on a plane and he's coming.

Like so like, and I could sense that, you know, my current partner was flying in on this small plane and I was like, no. And so the whole dream was about him trying to convince me that he, you know, he's changed and he was this, that we know each other and we're, yeah, that we need to. to reconnect and we need to go on this trip together. So that's kind of where it ended. Right. I barely kept up. I know of a cramp. Speaking of, I'm going to do some,

connecting with my body, a little bit of stretching here. Woo, that's good. I never want to interrupt. I don't, I never want to ask people to slow down. That's why we, I just listen. And then we go through it a second time. So, okay, I wish we had the full two hours. That one to really pick it apart and to walk there slowly and check my assumptions, we need more time. But we're going to do this anyway. And I'm going to get and I'm going to try. What I should do is become better at exactly that.

Let's, let's figure this shit out, Ben. Let's not take forever to get to the point. Which that's not me typically. Because I don't know what I'm doing half the time or what I'm saying. So what I'm going to try to do and I've been challenging myself to do this more often is get to the heart of some things. that jump out at me. And they jump, they do. They leap off the page. And I usually try to be more careful with that. I'm talking myself into being more direct, which is one thing that I would mention is that right at the very end there, you said, what you told him was, was that, and I love

the counterfactuals. So I'm going to say what you told him and then what you didn't tell him. You told him, no, my partner's coming on a plane. And that's something you just knew. And knowing things in dreams is the same as seeing things in dreams. It is. is what it appears to be, one way or the other. What you didn't say to him is, no, I don't want you. I don't want to go with you because I don't want to be with you. So you gave an accident. Now, maybe that is the way you actually feel, but that's not what you said.

You instead used an excuse rather than a direct refusal. That might be something to think about. It could be a tendency in life, or it could be the way you respond to this particular type of person, or the way you felt was most effective to get out of, a problem with this type of person. And that's the other thing that I would say too is, is that this is, I don't know that it's as much about him as,

and almost it never is. Like, so I use an example of, you came to me and you said, Ben, I had a dream. I stabbed my dog. I love my dog. I would never hurt my dog. I was horrified.

And I'm like, well, the first thing I'm going to tell you, you don't want to stab your dog. You're not a psychopath. You're not a serial killer in the making. this is not about your dog. Your dog represents something. And you taking an action which directly causes harm to something you love,

that's the concept we're working with here. So this is another thing that's common to a human experience in which makes a great archetypal. That's why there's so many different love stories. And one of those tropes in a love story is at first I was enchanted by the way he is. and I felt a compulsion. And it sounds like from what you, from what you described, was that when you first met him,

he had this kind of seductive quality where you kind of wanted to go along for the ride. And it sounds like that came back. So we're looking at that kind of a thing happening. So something like that, our relationships with people are very important. They, a lot of our dream imagery will come from relationships.

and icons of those experiences will very often be crystallized in people. So for him, he represents this is a particular way of relating to other people, of constructing an intimate relationship, which I may or may not want to repeat, depending. And it sounds like definitely not with that same person. But so I should be asking more questions and rambling less. But would you say that your current relationship is different? you picked a different kind of person?

Or do you not have one? Yes. I mean, I don't want to assume. And I'm not trying to put you on blast. Probably pretty much the complete opposite. There you go. Yeah, yeah. And there's nothing wrong.

And this is the other thing too. It's like if someone comes to me and says, Ben, I had a dream. I cheated on my current girlfriend with my ex-girlfriend. And I'm like, okay, that doesn't mean you want to cheat. It doesn't mean you want her back because all of your waking thoughts could be, wow, she was a nightmare. I don't want anything to do with her anymore.

It was a roller coaster ride. I thought I was into it. And there were good times and bad. But ultimately, I'm done with that. I don't want her. So fair enough. But there is still a reason you liked her or loved her. There's still appealing things that are within that.

And it's okay to recognize, though. And it's okay to say maybe in, maybe in current relationships, I kind of wish some of those out, some of the good things were present. But in order to get some of those good things, you've got to have that bad person in a way. It's like some things are part and parcel. A safer, stable, more reliable, more honorable, more chivalrous, more dependable, more, just everything you could ever possibly want in a life partner is going to be necessarily less exciting than a sociopathic roller coaster ride of drama. That's going to be exciting. but it's more excitement than you want.

So part of us might say, I miss the excitement and part of us might say, but I'm really glad it's gone and given the opportunity I would not go back. And even in this dream, you're, in a way, you're symbolizing that. So you're, why, these are all the questions I should have put. We first start with a setting, a long garage. And are you talking about an airplane hanger large or a two car, three-car garage and it's just deep so the back end of it is kind of in shadow.

I mean, how big is this place? It'd probably be like if you had, I don't know, maybe five or six cars, you know, one after the other long. Kind of a kind of a rich people garage in a way where we've got their classic car collection on display. And when you say sides, you're not looking at lengthwise left right. You're looking at one end or the other end of the lengthwise. Yeah.

And all of your family and friends are over here. You're basically what you're saying in my estimation. Stop me if I'm wrong. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's not it. But it's like my entire life is over here now. And this part of my life, which is in the past, is over in, in a dark place. I was in a dark place, perhaps, when I was with him.

And he is packing up to leave. Now, that's interesting, too. What does that really mean? It's your dream. So he's not choosing to leave. You're choosing to show him. leaving. Why is that? Are you leaving him behind? Are you kicking him out of your brain as something that was, I don't need this anymore. I don't need that baggage. I can let him go. I think that may be

part of what you're dealing with there too. And there's that last ditch effort of that part of your brain that was enchanted, was seduced. And kind of against your better judgment, enjoyed it. And like, this is not a male female thing. Guys, there's a reason they say, you know, don't stick your beeping crazy. It's a hell of a ride. You're not going to survive. You know, it's one of those things where she will get you killed and she might kill you herself. So in the same same with male, sometimes you just got to say this doesn't work as much fun as that is. I got to let it go. I can't do that to myself. So my, all this rambling to say there may, there may have been, and you said this has happened multiple times. It's a recurring thing.

In different ways. Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, it makes sense like what you're saying because we had a pretty unpleasant court case going on. And it wasn't actually directly with me. It was with somebody else that he was having it. But I was involved. I got it, you know, I ended up getting involved in it. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I'd been waiting and waiting for it to finish.

And it finished a couple of months ago. And from there, it's been like, Like, now I can let go because I don't have to think about it because, you know, the court case made you kind of think about it. And it just kept going on and on and on. It was like a never-ending story. Was it mostly during that period of time that this dream recurred or has it come back at different points, things that are not directly related to him? As far as you can tell. Mainly during that time.

And this last one was probably. probably a few weeks ago. Now that it's come to a conclusion. He's packing up to leave. That's that you're finally able to let him go in a way that you weren't before maybe. So it would be interesting. So usually with recurring dreams, as I was saying, we get a certain concept gets crystallized and very often attached to a person that we,

or an event or a place that we had that experience at or with. It would be. So every time we get into a situation emblematic, of that type of situation, the repeating trope of, say, an anime story or something, that image comes back. The meme comes back to say, oh, it's this again. I know what this is, and this is how I feel about it. It would be interesting to see if that goes away. You never have the dream again because he's gone. Then again, it may not be, I hesitate to say things like, this is, this seems directly related to relationships and your current relationship. I don't know

that it is. I think it represents a kind of thing because you can easily extrapolate this to other experiences. Let's say a person legally distinct from myself may or may not have tried cocaine in college and that person really liked it. And because he really liked it, he decided he was never going to do it again because that was going to get out of control immediately. And then again, 30 years later, he might look back and go, I kind of wish I could. I still wish, he says, he says, I still wish I could. But knows it's a bad idea. So the design. desire is still there in terms of that was that was a lot of fun it was a great time not worth the trouble not worth the risk so anytime a similar situation of that might be fun not worth the risk

not worth the trouble comes up you go oh like my like that guy used to date cheese that was a disaster and then it helps to refocus as we were talking about earlier refocus you on okay what's really important to me the feeling that I would get the high the roller coaster the emotion the energy the drama not not worth it not worth it And we just reify or reinvest in sending ourselves in a better, more functional, you know, positive direction. I think I rambled way too much. I don't know if any of that connection with what you're going through.

We're almost out of time too. I think it's also that I found out that he's living, like, leaving the state that I'm in, which also means that, like, some of the events that if I wanted to go to before, and I couldn't go because he's there. We also have a DVO order. So, you know, neither else can be, well, he can't be in 100 meters. So if you're in the same garage, he's got to be on the other end.

That's a very literal physical representation in the dream. Yeah. Very neat. Yeah. And, and he's leaving to go into a completely different state, which is like really quite far away. and a state that I am not that interested in visiting. And so, and interestingly, I heard that he's going, you know, with his wife in this caravan in the caravan in the car.

Mm-hmm. And he's back in for a trip in the dream, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it could be around now, you know, some time now. And it's like the fact of him actually not being in the state where I live. makes me definitely feel a lot freer to go to places that I know he's attended where, you know, I don't want to run into him.

I think there is a part maybe where he feels that he's been seen in an unfair way and treated maybe and he wants some kind of, he wants to know that I have let it go and not holding onto it, not because he cares about me so much, but because he thinks that it would kind of let him off the hook for what he did. And so, you know, so I feel like there's almost that desire for him to go, hey, I'm innocent. Look at me. And when I first met him, the whole story was that he was the victim of everybody else's.

Oh, shit. That's, now, you know, that's a huge red flag. It's never my fault. Oh, narcissist much. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes you've got to learn the hard way. No, that's it. And even that, you know, your mother figured, just last thing, I'm going to chat here,

your mother figured in the dream as someone that he was trying to convince. And I'm thinking that's your inner mother, the mother who in real life told you, This guy's trouble. I bet she did. You know, and she saw the flags and you're like, no, you just don't understand. And I really feel strong. And also for the for the narcissist, it's like it's not that they did anything wrong. It's that you feel wrong about them.

And if you just change your feeling, everything, everything's fine. It's never anything that was actually said or done. Anyway, I got you on that one. Well, okay. Let's try and wrap this up and get you out of here. For my own curiosity, You were obviously very introspective and you've had time to think about these things and you probably would have, you know, thought about him and your relationship with him in the context of this dream. How much new perspective do you think I gave you a little bit, a lot?

You know, did I say some things you hadn't thought of or put a highlight on some things that didn't occur to you previously? I was like to know I did something. It was no waste of time. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think the connection of, you know, firstly, how long, you know, the garage was and that, you know, that it's kind of like the old life and that him, even though, you know, he's moving away, he still wants to drag me in some ways into, or to keep the connection in some way, you know, again, just because it feeds him. or it makes him feel innocent. It makes him feel like, you know, he didn't do anything wrong and he can convince me.

And like you said, my mom essentially saw right through him from the beginning. And so he said to me, I remember this actually very clearly, he said, I feel like you need to choose whether you want to be with me or whether, you know, you need to be so connected to your mom because how would you create trust with me as long as she's in your ear? So you need to have kind of, I need to take you away from her. And so it's like him coming back to her and saying, hey, without asking me or talking to me and saying to her, oh, we're going to get married again, is to say to her, well, Hey, I win when, in fact, he really doesn't.

And by him leaving, and it's almost like with my current partner, it's like him, well, he was actually away when a lot of things happened. He was in another country because his dad was dying at the time. And so it's like him coming back. But on this plane where I felt like he was flying the plane to kind of go, hey, I'm here. You know, you don't like I'm going to rescue you in some way. Like you don't have to.

And you may feel like he did actually that you found someone. This guy so much better. This guy showed me what a good relationship can be without being manipulated and abused like this other person did. And that's just the final thing I'll say to you too is, you know, I'm trying to also work on giving people a little bit more at the very end of like, okay, now what do you do with all this? Sometimes it's great. Sometimes I got nothing. But I mentioned just briefly that you gave him an excuse rather than a hard no. And maybe in your real life, one thing you could work on is identifying people who they're looking for an explanation so they can argue with you. If something is not negotiable, say, no. And if they ask for an explanation, say no and get very comfortable with saying no and very comfortable with them being unhappy that they can't talk you out of something you've already made up your mind about. You don't owe anyone an explanation for anything ever. Period. Now, you do,

if you want to maintain certain relationships with good people, you want to be reasonable and explain. But if there's people who are looking to exploit you, take advantage of you, you get that trust your gut. You get that gut feeling. This person is not looking out for my best interest. Don't give them an inch to argue with. The answer is no, there will be no explanation. If you're unhappy with that, you can hang up the phone call right now. This is, this is the end of it. So that sounds harsh, but I want you to be harsh. When you need to be with people who would, who intend to hurt you, you don't owe them kindness or an explanation. That's my, you know, if I could pound the desk on that one, I'll say, just damn it, don't, just screw those people. So anyway, that's my last

little thing. I hope that's something useful to you and you'll take a bit of courage. The wizard says, screw that guy. I think he's right. Anyway, I'll leave it there. I'll leave it there. Okay, let's do the outro and get you out of here. I got to refer to my notes. This has been our friend Inna Segal. I forgot to ask where you're out in the world.

Is that okay? Just country. Is it Australia or New Zealand? I think Aussie. Australia. There we go. I was going to guess. She is a pioneer in the field of energy medicine and human consciousness

and the bestselling author of The Secret Language of Your Body, which has been translated, of course, into 26 languages, sold over a million copies worldwide. You can find her at Innesagal.com. that's I-N-N-A-S-E-G-A-L link in the description below, of course. For my part, would you kindly like, share, and subscribe, tell your friends, always need more volunteer dreamers. I do video game streams Monday through Friday, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific, most days of the week. Sometimes I take a Thursday, Friday off, and I don't stream on the weekends.

I have a day job. My whole life is upside down. This episode brought to you in part by ABC Book 18, Oniro Chronology, Volume 4. prima relicoram. Of course, you can find all this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. And if you'd head on over to Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com, free to join attached to my Rumble account, one of the best ways to get in touch with me. That is enough housekeeping. In a great talk, I wish we had more time. I know you're very busy, and I can see why. You're great to talk to. Thank you so much. Good deal. And everybody out there, thank you for listening. Hope to see you next time.