Dreamscapes Podcasts - Dreamscapes Episode 216: The Sky’s the Limit

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

Joshua Dvorkin ~ https://headwaymentalhealth.com/

Um, there's, you know, what I tell people is dreams self select for importance. Uh, it, you're going to wake up feeling a certain way about it like, like it won't, like it stays with you. And that's kind of how you know, there's something there you probably want to try to figure out. Dreams that just fade away. I mean, there's a lot of random stuff and a lot of just idle thoughts, uh, that, that aren't going to be as impactful. Greetings friends and welcome back to another episode of dreamscapes. Today we have our guest, Joshua, Dvorkin from Toronto, Canada. He is a human experience curator,

a reclamation coach, trauma-informed program specialist, and the founder of Headway Mental Health. And of course, his website is headway mental health.com. And that link will be in the description below. For my part, would you kindly like, share, and subscribe to tell your friends,

always need more volunteer dreamers. I do video game streams Monday through Friday, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific. Most days is a week. Sometimes I'll take a Friday off if I end a game early. I always like the beginning game on Monday. that's too much information. This is supposed to be brief. The latest piece of historical dream literature available on my website, of course, is ABC

Book 18, O'Neuro Chronology, Volume 4. It is the fourth anthology work collecting, in this case, two entire books and a very lengthy article from the 1830s, I think, about specifically Muslim dream interpretation. Fascinating work. Highly recommended, of course. I'm biased. But you can find all this. more at Benjamin the DreamWizard.com, including downloadable or live streamable MP3s of this very

podcast. And if you would also head on over to Benjamin thedreamwizard.com, it's free to join attached to my Rumble account. Got a little community there. Great place to reach out to me if you have dreams to share. And that is enough out of me. We'll get back to Joshua. Thank you for being here. I appreciate your time. What an awesome introduction, Benjamin. It's my pleasure to be here today. Thank you so much for having me. That is very cool. you've got a lot of stuff going on. I did an idea of human experience curator.

I guess I'm a human dream curator in that sense. Yes, exactly. I mean, I thought I would try and come up with like a title that was something different, but it kind of explains itself. So I am a psychotherapist and I help professionals who are navigating chronic illness, disability or, you know, other major life. transgressions kind of reclaim their story, come up maybe with something new, you know, find new possibilities that, you know, may align with their new story, but still really align

with who they are as a person and their values and beliefs. Yeah, and I think storytelling is very powerful. I think I've always had a great fascination with that, the idea that it can inspire and inform, but the idea of the idea of, that a lot of what we, what's the phrase, I don't use buzzwords, but like a lot of what we internalize about who we are depends on what story we believe about what happened to us. Like there's the facts and there's the interpretation of it, which is interesting when you get into the whole dream interpretation things too, is there's the facts of the experience, this happened and that happened.

And then we look at it and we go, okay, what does that mean? What does that say about me? What does that say about the world? And we're always building these, I don't know, I guess the new hot term is skeeter. or whatever used to be complexes. It's gone through many iterations over the years. But yeah, but a little, what do they call? There's other words for rubrics or heuristics that are like, okay, if I see this,

pattern recognition, ultimately, I'll stop there. You probably have things to say on this subject. Now I'm rambling. Go ahead. I just knew like it changes all the time as well, like our schema and our story about ourselves. Every day it changes, right? I mean, depending on our inner voice or what story we're telling ourselves about

ourselves or what we're hearing from other people about ourselves, you know. So it's really important, actually, the words that we tell ourselves. Self-compassion is a huge belief that I have, you know. I just, I believe that we're all a little too hard on ourselves. It's true. No, definitely. And that, yeah, and that's a lot of it is the story we tell ourselves. Now, we inherit a lot of stories from our parents, perhaps.

And they're the one who are teaching us what the world is and how to understand our place in it as well. So we internalize that. So Freud wasn't entirely wrong for all those people who are like, oh, Freud. No, he was right about a lot of stuff, not everything. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And he did enough cocaine to kill a small horse. I think that's hilarious. But anyway, just that idea that sometimes all you got to do is take a look at the same set of facts and say, well, what if it means something else?

What if you're able to understand it differently and draw, specifically, I think what a lot of what we do in, you know, I've got a background in psychology too. A lot of what we do is just try and help people sort through, well, what did this situation mean to you and what can you do with it going forward? A lot of people get stuck in a negative story about, oh, this happened to me and therefore it means something specific. And there's nothing I can do with it. I'm like, well, you can transform a lot of that into, I think primarily into motivation. There's always some motivation to be found in something that happened in the past. And sometimes it can be some of the best motivation to get us moving forward again. I don't know if you found that to be true in, you know, clinically or personally.

You know, I find like for sure, people are like, oh, you know, they're explaining to me that they picked up, you know, their anxiety from their parent. maybe they're modeling this behavior that they picked up from this person, but I'm always like, well, hey, wouldn't it be great if you actually took accountability now and said, well, that behavior is mine and I own that behavior, you know, because that allows you to really have an opportunity to change it, right? And then kind of make your life your own. So for me, it's like being aware of what I'm thinking of, is every, thing because once I have that awareness, then I can really, you know, see how my thoughts are

serving me. And if I see that things aren't serving me properly, I can kind of shift how I'm thinking a little bit at a time, you know, and shift my disciplines a little bit and hopefully, you know, increase my resilience or whatever area I'm, you know, working on. Definitely. I think that's a big narrative change in how and how we look at ourselves in the world as well going from a state of powerless victimhood this happened to me therefore there's nothing i can do about it which is the big deal um versus taking responsibility you're like well how do i take respond why would i take responsibility or ownership of traumatic things that were honestly inflicted on me by circumstances beyond my control and it isn't like going oh that was my fault not about blame it's not about fault finding

It's about taking and saying, okay, this now, what's happening now is me. What I do afterwards with that information, that's all me. And I can change it. Victimhood is is unchangeable. It's historical. It's, it's an emptiness that we can't do anything with. But if you own it, if you take it in and say, this is, okay, this is me now. This is now what am I going to do about it?

Then you get somewhere to go. You're out of that hopelessness trap of nothing can change. But if you take it, it's, I'm probably explaining this, but you can probably explain it better than I am. You get what I'm saying. It kind of allows you to have a superpower, right? Where once you change something or, you know, overcome one obstacle, it really allows you to see that anything is possible, right? So, I mean, like, an example for me would be, you know, I was in the hospital on a ventilator.

The doctor told me that I would never breathe on my own again. So I had a letterboard and I pointed in so many letters, four letters to start with. Right, no way, man. I'm like, I'm like, mark my words doctor. I'm like 10 days from today, I'm going to be talking and breathing on my own.

And I swear to you, 10 days from that day, I was off the ventilator. So I truly, that was like the first thing that made me want to go into psychology because I was like, hmm, I was like, there's something to this. I was like, because obviously if I can think it and it happens, um, our mind is a pretty strong thing. It definitely is. Well, that's also a great,

a great lesson too, just where, where the trajectory of your life took you. So you had an event where, uh, I think we, you know, you were okay with me, but sharing this, you had a seizure and it caused a fall and then the fall resulted in the, the neck injury and then the neck injury with the paralysis and whatnot. And you're on the ventilator and all that. good stuff. Um, yeah. And I was going someplace with that. But, oh, so it doesn't mean your life is over at that point. Now, a lot of people had plans. Maybe now the life you plan might have been over. Maybe you wanted to be a track star. Okay, maybe that's not happening anymore. Maybe you're not going to be an astronaut or whatever. But you shifted gears into something else. Okay, well, what is, what is the entire

range of life that is still left to me? And you found out it's really big. And you found an interest in their psychology. Maybe you had an interest beforehand, but still, like that is still open to you like I my mind is not broken so so my legs don't work so good I can still use my head and that's a great I had a I used to before I got really fat again I used to train a martial arts and uh there was um my sensei was telling a story about how he went to train with his sensei and he had like a broken or sprained wrist or something and he said you know I'm sorry I won't be able to participate in class today and his sense say said why no participate legs not broken uh uh yeah

And he was like, you're right. I'll just, I won't use my arm. I'll use everything else I can. I thought that was a great, that stuck with me for like 20 years now. Yeah, that's awesome. It's a great example. I mean, that was it. At first, I was like, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do.

My life was over. I definitely had like that period. You know, that my brother said to me, he's like, you know, he's like, if you don't pull it together, you're going to lose everything. You've worked so hard in your 29 years. to like, you know, both together. So I was like, okay, you know,

that's exactly it. I still have my mind. So I just looked for opportunities and possibilities. And I had started a psychology degree when I was 18 and I had left it to pursue. To pursue I was a makeup artist and did some stuff in the arts for 16 years. And, yeah, so then I went back and finished my degree.

degree in psychology, got a degree in journalism, and then got a master's in psychology after that. Very cool. Yeah. And this made me think of something else, too. It's like you're, there's a, process to this whole thing as well, which is number one, you can give yourself permission to grieve, to mourn the loss of, of the life you thought you had planned. Okay, this is not going to work out the way I thought it was. Things changed. And you can just say, it's okay to acknowledge, this sucks. I don't like this. I didn't want this. I'm sad about this. And I think until some people really get past that, by letting themselves feel it. It's okay to say this sucks. And that reminds me of someone else I was talking to a while back where they said, you know, there's a certain amount

of mandatory positivity that comes with a lot of recovery pros. You have to think it's all good and this is for the best. And it's all going to be great from here on. And it's like, I think it was fighting cancer or something was the specific context. And this other, this person I was talking to was like, no, I was angry. And I, and I was just wanted to dwell on how much, how much I was angry. And that's where I got my fight from. And I like, okay, if happy and positive doesn't work for you, if anger gets you through and gives you that motivation, so be it. So there's, you know, giving, but certainly at the very beginning of it, letting yourself fully accept the situation of like, I, this sucks. Grieve that loss. And then you can move on from it.

And it's okay, now, now what am I to do? What am I going to do? I mean, that's actually your hit right on point for me. It's what I call resilience without romanticism. So kind of like a lot of people expect, you know, when you go through something, you kind of like just go through the smile on your face. And that's it. Like become positive and everything else disappears, right?

But I think it's really incorporating, strategically incorporating that, lost in that grievance into who you are as a person because it is your truth. You can't just cover it up and sweep it under the rug because it is going to come back to haunt you. Trauma always comes back to haunt you if you don't process it. You know, so, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a lot of people don't, or lay persons out there. Maybe don't get the idea of what it means to really integrate something. And it isn't to, you know, put it in a box on a shelf and forget about it. It isn't just to just, to move on. It's okay, now this is a part of me. This thing that happened, it's in my history.

It's a, it's a, it's a fact of my life. Now I have to choose how to move forward afterwards. Uh, so in if, honestly, if you're not integrating it or accepting it or making it a part of who you are going forward, it's going to sit exactly what it is in that box and that shelf's going to, it's going to spill out later on in a way that it's, is less controllable than if you take it in and factor that in moving forward, make it a part of who you are going forward. Well, said, man. Oh, thank you.

I try. I always start these stupid, stupid shows. I shouldn't say that. Hey, it's a great show. Thanks for watching. But never knowing what I'm going to say,

I don't plan anything. I'm just like, I'm just going to listen. And I'm going to try and have a conversation. I'm going to try and think of interesting things to say. It doesn't always happen. But I did want to, I did want to throw back to you probably.

So you spent a good deal of time in theater. And I think there's a lot of overlap between theater and psychology as well, because theater is, well, how do you tell human stories without understanding human emotions and motivations and behaviors and whatnot? Because you're, and I've been getting into this a lot too, which I'm trying to write a series of, well, I'm doing it. I am writing. I said trying to. It's happening. But a series of light novels, you know, kind of Isakai, sci-fi fantasy crossover. I've had this idea for 30 years.

I'm like, I'm going to go for it. Let's get it done. And I'm finding it's really hard to understand. understand my own characters. I've got a lot of action I want to have happen in the world, but I'm like, okay, who is this person? What motivates them and what's going on here? What is their psychology? So I'm actually writing a shit ton of documents about who they are and what they think and feel that may never make it into the book just so I know who I'm dealing with. I was going somewhere with this, but just your experience in theater probably helps with

psychology. I think that was my point. Character developments is so important in understanding anybody, right? I do the same thing with my clients, it's like I go through a huge intake with some of that information I might not use, but I really want to understand how my clients see things, right? So just like the same way you probably want to understand the way your characters see things, right? At some point, I'd like it if they take on a mind of their own and they tell me what their reaction is to a certain situation. I don't have to script it, so to speak. I don't know if that that hasn't happened yet, but I'll get there.

I'm barely, barely into, I almost am about three quarters through, book one out of my out of my hope 15 we'll see this is never written a novel let alone 15 but I've decided I'm going to write 15 but that's okay this why am I talking about me I don't know this is what's all my this is what I'm doing okay I started writing a book too so I've had it on my plate for like probably like a decade but I've never been in a place where I was like but I finally like got the outline I've got like yeah Lots of stuff down. That's a big deal.

Getting to that point. Well, also, I think 30 years ago, I wasn't ready to write it. I couldn't have done half of what I'm doing now. One tenth of, I said, I did sit down to write it on two separate occasions. And I was bored with the process. Like, I didn't find the story interesting. I'm like, I don't think this is interesting. No one else will.

This is bad. I scrapped it and waited. And maybe I wasn't ready. Maybe I really. Now, that's a weird thing as well, that this idea of meant to be. Does it mean it's fate? Does it mean there's nothing I could have done differently? No, it just means that it wasn't meant to happen at that time because I wasn't ready.

And certain other motivational factors needed to fall into place. And probably I was going to say to bring it back to you as I talk about myself too much. Maybe 10 years ago when you first had the idea, you weren't ready to write it. But it was a good idea and you never forgot it. And that's why it stayed with you. And I think that maybe that's the same thing with dreams that happens to people. It's like it stuck with you because there's. something important to understand there or to express.

And then now you may be finally in the right headspace or the right set of circumstances that it can have that necessary expression. That's kind of what I think of what I think of meant to be. I know as far as theater. So I went to high school of the arts and did theater there. And then I left there. And then I did a production in my wheelchair at the Soul Pepper. theater,

young people's theater in the distillery district in Toronto 23 performed sold out performances and then I just was a mental health consultant on a short film that just got shortlisted

for the Oscars. Nice. That is very cool. Well, when they bring you up on stage say shout out to the shout out to the Dream Wizard. I'll take it. No, you're going to take your mom and God and all those people. That's fine.

It's called Butterfly on the wheels. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. I just got a phone call one day from the, from the, one of the producers, and they're like, do you want to be involved in this film? I was like, sure. That is very cool. Well, that's a big deal, too. I mean, now we're kind of going on tanges, but that's how we, that's how we roll here.

It's what, anything and nothing. If you're, let's say, if you're a filmmaker, then I'm a short film, anything. And you don't know how guns work. You're going to bring in a guy. who's the gun expert. And he's going to say, oh, by the way, this is how they, this is how you rack around. This is, this is how you check the safety.

And this is, this is the proper, you know, trigger discipline type of thing. You're going to bring in an expert. So if you've got like, okay, I'm telling a story about a person. They've got this mental health condition. I've got an idea of what I want to go do with it, but I need an expert. So you consult someone and you say, what does this really look like? What is this person thinking and feeling as they're going through these emotions? What are the stages, perhaps?

Like, we would say stages of grief or whatever. And that's a big deal. And I found that in my own stuff recently, too. It's like, I wanted to write a main character of a particular kind. And there's a bunch of research that I had to do. And I've been outsourcing it to Grock, essentially, not writing the story, but doing the research. I'm like, tell me about this technology, what it looks like now. And let's have a conversation about speculating 50 years from now. What does it look like? And where, based on current trends, what's the trajectory? Would it be capable of doing this type of thing? In the past, you would, you know, authors would get a, you know, uh, you know, authors would get a, uh, uh, you know, maybe they'd get an advance from a, from a, a publisher based on their, uh, reputation. They would hire a researcher.

They'd be like, go look up this thing for me. And then, or they would do it themselves. I could, I can't imagine doing half the research I've done in 10 times as much time as, as, as I've been able to do it using these other things. So it's when people say they're using AI to,

um, you know, write a book, which I absolutely am. And I'm, I'm thinking of actually, I'm going to credit Grock in the book, of like as a research assistant.

The AI is not writing the book. I'm not saying write me a book and it just writes it. No, no, no. The ideas are mine. The dialogues are mine. The scenarios. Everything's mine. But when it comes down to,

what's that particular shade of green? Oh, okay. One question and I get like, do you mean this? That's what I was talking about. So I, well, long story short on that, I would encourage everyone to use those tools. And you chat GPT or whatever it is. Always double check if you're ever,

every curious and talk to a real, a real expert, a real human sometimes. Real doctor, yes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say,

but AI is not a way, we're, effective substitute for real counseling therapy, for sure. Not yet, not yet, but, but,

you know, here's another thing. I'm talking too much. I'm going to throw back to you. I promise. I looked up an interesting thing the other day. I was like,

I wonder, tell me, Grock, how many people are using you for a stand-in counselor or therapist? and they did a search and like a lot actually like wow um you know and then it did the caveat well i'm not actually one of those you know i'm not qualified for that but a lot of put

grok phrased it as you know people were just lonely need someone to talk to or or to bounce ideas off of that's a huge thing you got no one to talk to um okay i swear i'm going to stop throw back to you good for i think like you know validation or um removing somebody from isolation or yeah exactly maybe like having a conversation about something with but I don't think you can really be like a life guide or um help you process trauma or do like specific modalities like EMDR or certain trauma therapies. And the output you get is entirely based on the the input you request, you know, garbage in garbage out, as they say.

If you're like, give me a list of pros and cons of this particular thing. It's pretty good at that. But like, should I do that? It doesn't know you. It isn't even actually a person. I mean, I think you have to be human in order to counsel a human in that sense. And also you have to be a full entity, a being, a personality yourself in order to do. that like it's just large language models it sounds good it sounds like it's listening and responding

and it is sort of but it's not it doesn't have empathy it doesn't know i mean it has um ethical guidelines that they program in but it doesn't it isn't actually a person we're not there yet and we may not get there for another 50 years who knows i mean at least that's how my that's how it is in my novel i don't think we'll have real artificial general intelligence until technology goes way further down the road. There's a lot more connections that need to happen there. Although I'm looking forward

to meeting the first commander data from Star Trek the next generation. I think you'll be an interesting guy. Absolutely. And he might make an okay counselor after a few years, you know, after 30 or 40 years of living as a being. Well, if you're actually like doing

everyday things, then yeah, for sure. It's more relatable, right? But if you're just a large, language model sitting inside of a processor or whatever it's sitting inside of? Yeah. And I think they've also found some interesting information about, you know, trying to get programs to act, even just physically on small scale in the world, is that without, okay, it's a weird thing to say, but without a body, they can't really act.

But that doesn't just mean they need the ability to physically manipulate objects. They can give them that, but in order to really think, in order to really process the fact of three-dimensional space, they have to be embodied in a way. And then they can learn from that moving forward. You can't really do it the other way around, program it how to think and then put it into a body in a way and then let it go. It has to kind of learn how to think by being embodied. And I think until a machine really or artificial intelligence learns to crawl and then walk. and then deal with navigating scenarios, like grow up in a way over a long period of time,

you know, 10, 15, 20 years. I don't think it'll be capable of approximating human intelligence in that same way. I think part of what we can do and understand is based on the fact that we've got this whole system going on that has to act in the world. Yeah, we have all that. We're on tangents. We have all these dynamic. parts, right?

Mm-hmm. Our surroundings, which gives us a better understanding, I think, in what's going on. For sure. I think it does definitely. I think it also roots back into the idea that, you know, if someone has a lot of experience in the world, an experience is big, there's knowledge and those experiences like, okay, well, I know many things. Experiences, what, what, how do they, how do they phrase that?

It's like, knowledge is knowing a tomato and a cherry or both fruit, but, uh, experiences or wisdom is knowing that tomatoes don't belong in a fruit salad, that kind of thing. I think I screwed it up. I think that's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that that leans into another thing, too, which is I think that a lot of people who are in psychology got in because they have their own unique need to understand. And then that led them to the motivation to become an expert. And then they can pass that along. It's like what do they say?

Some of the best drug and alcohol counselors are former addicts. I've been there, done that. Let me tell you how I got out. And then they can help other people. I don't know if you found that to be true in your circumstance or just in observing the field in general. That's why I work with that's why I work with people navigating disability, chronic illness. And, you know, I find that and other just majors. traumatic life circumstances.

I find since I kind of wrapped my head around it and what it takes to like, and not saying that I don't have my moments because I for sure have my moments, you know, where, you know, just, you know, because I process and accepted the fact that I'm paralyzed, you know, I still wake up every day not having legs. So, or not, I have legs, but not having the use of my legs. So, you know. Yeah, it certainly doesn't fix everything. It's not like, oh, the key is acceptance and then I can walk again.

No, no, it means accepting. You can't walk. And now what do I do with that? And does that really mean my life is over? Does that, does that mean I'm, you know, doomed to be sad or hopeless forever? It doesn't have to be, doesn't have to be. It can be very hard to get out of that, that hole, though. I mean, certainly in the beginning, it's, there's a lot of that grieving that needs to,

that needs to happen, letting go of things that are no longer possible. And the more you dwell on it, I mean, in some ways, this is moving past that, that, you know, but the more you hold onto it, the more you hate it, the idea of here's all the things I can't do anymore. That's not helping anybody. That's, that's just, that's certainly not helping them, helping you, you know, if you're, if you're stuck in that mindset. And I mean, I've had moments like over the last 21 years where it's like, I think I've fallen back into that mindset for short periods of time, you know, but people pointed out. I have good. friends and good support so family people pointed out to me pretty quickly that i'm being

impossible that i'm being impossible that can help a lot to have just close people that you know care about care about you kind of give your reality check in in a good but not necessarily a nice way i like like people that can be good to you but they're not necessarily being nice that's actually speaking the character types that's one of my favorites is kind of like the uh the person who's going to, in a seemingly mean way, tell you something you need to know because they care. Like, oh, I'd fine. I got to like that guy. Even if I'm not that guy. It's a, I gotta wish I was sometimes. But no. And then we'll also on that, on that score, giving yourself the permission to have those moments. You know, it's gonna, it's gonna suck again. You're gonna have times where you're like,

here's something I really wish I could do. And I, and I can't. And it all goes back to this thing that is, so I'm back in that mindset again. Yeah. And they just acknowledge it. Like, well, here I am. This sucks. And it probably also helps you remember. Well, how did I get it out of it last time? What did I need to do?

And then there's also the motivation. All this blends together as well. It's like, I need to, I need to fix this for myself to show that I still can to show that my practice of helping others is valid as well. So you actually get a. And it's weird to say this. You say this to someone who's depressed or hopeless. And it's like, every obstacle was an opportunity. He was like, I don't want obstacles.

Like, well, I feel you. Number one, I agree. They suck. And nothing you do about that. So what are you going to do? Are you going to give up? I mean, uh, go ahead. I find that life is obstacles.

It is a pile of obstacles to overcome. And it is. The little joy is within all of those big obstacles. If we can find them, that makes life worthwhile. You know, the people that we're with, you can have a bad situation and still have good things about it. You can be sick and good people around you. Just depends on how you choose to perceive things, I guess. It's very true.

Yeah. Well, I love these analogies, too. I always think about it like video games. It's like if you're going, you know, you're going in the right direction. because there's enemy mobs, that kind of thing. Right? There's resistance to your progress in that sense. But also, we play a lot of these games

because we're looking for an experience that is meaningful in some ways, but certainly interesting, but also challenging. And it isn't the challenge. It's more like, how long do you play a game that you're bored of? Once you've done everything there is to do

and there's no more challenges to overcome. you move on to the next game and find new challenges. And it's like, that's kind of how life is. In a sense, remember this is old 10 or 15 years ago. I heard someone talking about this, but the idea that we don't actually experience happiness from the conclusion of a task. Now, we need to get there and there is a dopamine hit and all that good stuff. And you need successes or you, what is it, you know, behavior extinction, that kind of thing.

I'm going back to my old, the behaviors, stuff I learned in college forever ago. But really the happiness where people report the most happiness appears to be in the process of working towards a goal, maybe small steps, not there yet, but struggling to achieve something. And it's pushing against that resistance that is where we actually find the most life satisfaction. So if someone is thinking, God, I hate these obstacles, the flip side is imagine there's no obstacles. It's all smooth sailing and you are completely bored. Do you want that? I mean, is that

what you're saying? You know, that kind of a thing. It's like a lot of it is mindset. A lot of it is reframing these, we're talking about stories. What's the story you're telling, telling yourself? I'm, I hate these obstacles or damn, I'm glad I'm not bored. There you go. I don't know if you have something to say about that. I rambled for a bit. Yeah, I mean, we tell ourselves all kinds of limiting beliefs all the time, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. definitely um well we've been uh just kind of chit-chatting for about half an hour i don't know if you wanted to jump into the dream thing i don't want to run run you out of time to get a good experience out of that benjamin the dream wizard wants to help you here's the veil of night and shine

the light of understanding upon the mystery of dreams every episode of his dreamscape's program features real dreamers gifted with rare insight into their nocturnal visions new dreamscapes episodes appear every week on YouTube, Rumble, Odyssey, and other video hosting platforms, as well as free audiobooks exploring the psychological principles which inform our dream experience and much, much more. To join the Wizard as a guest, reach out across more than a dozen social media platforms and through the contact page at Benjamin the DreamWizard.com, where you will also find the wizard's growing catalog of historical dream literature available on Amazon,

the wisdom and wonder of exploration into the world of dreams over the past 2,000 years. That's Benjamin the Dream Wizard on YouTube and at Benjamin the Dream Wizard.com. I'm going to tell you about a dream that I've actually had on and off my entire life. So it's where I'm kind of walking along the sidewalk, and I get swept up into this kind of like small cyclone. which kind of sends me up into like this bigger storm which carries me really high up into the sky and I end up at this castle

yeah that's the end of the dream okay now you had this once or did you say this was recurring? Recurring it was recurring yeah you got to move buddy there you go I need my notepad he likes to lay on me He's trying to get me to play with him. Then he wants to chill my fingers.

That's not going to happen. My dog is sitting on my footplate right now. Yeah. Very nice. So let's try and get a little historical information about this. In terms of when's the earliest time you can remember this stream happening? Oh, probably when I was like five or six. Like really young.

And then the last time, You can remember experiencing it. In my late teens, probably. Maybe like 20. Okay. There you go. I mean, that covers a big span. And it doesn't matter if it's perfectly accurate.

You could have had it, you know, starting at seven. Six is close enough. And then, you know, last time could have been 21. But that's a good range. So it takes you from that, what is it? About five or six, we get more of a concrete sense of the world in terms of like it's, We can distinguish fantasy from reality a little better. And then there's also something that happens in that kind of late teens, early 20s,

where there's a second reckoning with reality in that range. And there's something, I don't know why the theme of, well, probably the theme of fantasy, you could be swept up into a castle in this guy. The first thing came to my mind was the idea of this, you know, fantastic adventures or fantasy in that sense. and then it popped into my head the idea of, yeah, the developmental stuff going on at five and late, late teens, early 20s. I guess I'll just stop there briefly and say, does that resonate with you? Or does I feel like we're on to something or there's just, it's empty.

There's nothing. That's not triggering anything. I don't know. No, sure. That's fine. That's actually a great answer too. It's like, I don't know. I don't know either.

That's just what occurred to me. I'm not in your head. And I like to tell folks as well or make clear. None of this is in my head. The answers are not in my head. I'm not hearing the voice of God. I don't have any magic powers. I'm just a crazy person who thinks he's a wizard on the internet.

But hopefully, if I can see a connection, it'll resonate. But it's okay that maybe it doesn't yet or it may, I'm happy to be wrong as well. So does the, we start at the beginning of the beginning, you're, walking along on a sidewalk and this is um notably your own neighborhood from that age yeah and was it uh kind of residential or um more urban uh or suburban urban residential city so i'm sorry you said uh city not suburbs yeah city okay and were you do you know you know that you know notice any, or were there any typical features of the landscape around there? Was it a busy street? Was there, um, uh, were there any particular types of businesses with buildings tall, shorter? Um,

everything seemed really flat. It seemed like there was a lot of, like, it was like definitely all pretty much houses and there was also like a lot of field. Um, there was a lot of. Um, there was a lot of trees. We lived in Alberta then. Sorry. Cats fight sometimes. Well, he wants to play with her and she's elderly and she's not having it. Please continue.

Yeah, I lived in Alberta at the time so I could see the mountains. As I remember, like, rising up into the sky, spinning around. Right, all these words down rising into the sky. I see mountains. Gotcha. So the way you're describing, it does sound like it's not an urban city with skyscrapers style,

but it is more suburban rows of houses, lawns, more away from the city, like the downtown area of the city. Like, I'm thinking like, when I first started having it,

it was probably in the early 80s. So there wasn't a lot of skyscrapers. first back then and stuff so fair enough yeah and that's interesting when you say city i mean what what is a person mean by that and someone who grew up in a small town would say well that's that's the city is is the downtown area and there's a sprawl to it businesses and industry and different stuff and then this houses interspers but then there's new york city as the city of like major downtown areas where there's just you're you don't uh you don't you don't see you'll see you can see the sky up but you can't see the horizon at all.

It's a very different experience. So it's good to get, you know, if you're going to do this at home, kids, try and get yourself into the, into your friend or relatives head. What are they actually seeing? Don't assume you know too much. Try and ask as many questions as you can along those. So I like to see where, where we're at in the beginning. And it says, first you were swept up into a small cyclone and then carried by that up.

into a larger storm. So how did the cyclone appear, the small one at least, and how big was it? Now, are we talking, you know, very small, like person size going around and carries you away or like, we're talking tall. No, yeah, I was fairly small. Like, it wasn't violent or anything like that. It was actually really pleasant and fun. I remember, like, totally.

excited. And then along came, so it lifted me up and then along came like this faster wind and it picked me up at a faster speed and carried me higher. The weather was fine.

There was no storm. Yeah, and I could just like, I remember being able to like see like just like forever. But I don't really remember seeing anything specific of what was there. Okay. Just writing some of this down. It's interesting, too. So there's a

fascinating process going on here. You've got this environmental phenomenon in a way. I like to try and rephrase things. And it is specifically a cyclonic wind action type of deal. Let's look at it. We know, we know, what it is. Tasmanian devil, type of thing. And it's not towering. It's not reaching to the sky and it comes at you. It's of a less threatening size in a way, but a more manageable size or like the way come, go ahead.

It's very small and it just picks me up. It takes me up. And then along comes like something more so. and like kind of like starts taking me around in the large circles and like takes me up higher. So I like have like kind of like a 360 degree view. Nice. Yeah. But then also the, um, the emotional experience of it.

The, uh, the idea that it was, um, pleasant, fun. You felt excited. Um, so this wasn't. this isn't say reframing a negative experience necessarily this is leaning into a a positive experience in a certain way but it is being acted upon by an exterior phenomenon that in this sense like it's uh it's it's it's got flying dream vibes uh where instead of just superman style or wings or whatever you've but still you've got this exterior um it isn't you doing it you aren't lifting yourself.

Something else is lifting you. And it starts to lift you. It gets you off the ground to a point where something else can then boost it or take over. And it becomes a larger phenomenon. And what that appears to do is give you this really a 30,000 foot overview in a way that people might say. Like it's this additional vision. What are the words I'm trying to say? If you can think of better words,

I'm trying to feed it back to you based on what you've said, but with a little little different shade on it. It's like you can oversee things or something. Yeah, there's something I'm aiming for. And I can never find the right words, but it's like there's a

different perspective we have when we can look down on the world. A lot of our vision or in some ways, understanding or experience is gated by how far can we see? And that's, there's a big metaphor in vision in terms of understanding and knowledge.

When people explain something to us, we say, oh, I see. What did you see? Nothing. You heard words. Maybe you saw images in your head, but you haven't really seen anything, but we use that anyways. That's this whole metaphor of, of understanding and knowledge, et cetera.

And the idea of being up high, giving us, not magnified, but not additional, but broader, more encompassing vision is a kind of understanding type of thing. You say, you know, let me get on top of this problem. And part of that is a physical thing of like wrestling a difficult thing into a particular shape or applying pressure, but it's also getting up high for that view from the vista type of thing. And what does it do is getting you off the ground is one step. and there's an exterior force that that is introduced, that feels exciting and fun. And, uh, and then that lifts you up to a point where the real expansion can begin.

The, the larger thing that then gives you the view. And then the progression of these dreams is often very important to do. That then takes you to the castle in the sky, which, um, as far as you, uh, had told me, um, you wake up at that point or do you enter the castle or um is it is it uh does it look like it's sitting on clouds like the classic classic style from what i remember yeah sure and does it have any particular shape does it remind you of anything any particular castle or how would you describe uh um reminds me kind of like a historic castle i kind of like historic castles that's what I'm seeing anyway.

I couldn't know a room, but... Yeah. Probably did know what a historic castle looked like at that point. Maybe, but we've probably seen a few. I don't know why just sitting here having this conversation with you. The castle that popped into my head was Castle Gracegoal from the 80s He-Man cartoon. I love that. Yeah.

And then I think another one popped into my head from some puzzle I did. It had like a rainbow in the background. I don't know why. This was years ago. I haven't done a rainbow puzzle in a long time. But it had a very cartoon. tuning looking castle and it had the classic parallel, that's not the right word, symmetrical shape where it's got the kind of arched drawbage looking part and then it's got walls with

the little crenellations and then the two towers on the corners. That's what pops into my head. Is that kind of what you were seeing too? It definitely had those crenellations on the top. I remember that. And there's definitely imagery we might have seen as a kid like it's in a lot of fantasy stories. might have been in a book of nursery rhymes or Grimm's fairy tales or something that you might have heard there. But what do you think or what is, is anything resonating with you about the idea of, as I've described it so far, you've got this external force lifting you up in a way,

taking you to you to a place where you're able to see or understand more. And then that carries you to the fantasy fulfillment of the castle in the sky type of thing. just like thinking maybe like relating like a change in perception like I've had a change in perception with my accident I don't know I'm just throwing these two things together sure sure it wasn't fun by any means but you know people always ask me

would you go back you know if you could and I always say no because I don't know what would happen back there you know what I'm saying you know that I've accomplished more since my accident than I did before. So for sure. And it hasn't been as much time. You know what I mean? That's tough.

If someone asked you like the day you woke up in the hospital or whatever, yeah, get me out of this. But the further you get from it, the more you're like, would I even be the same person I am today? And I have to look back at a lot of things that I've been through. Nothing is bad, I think is what happened to you. But honestly, I don't think I would change any of those bad things either. It's so far in the past, like I'm not.

suffering from it anymore necessarily, or at least not in a way that makes it something where I need to get out from under it. So yeah, I know exactly I feel too. That's where I'm at as well. Like, I don't think I would change any of the bad things that happened to me just because I kind of like where I'm at today, kind of like who I am today. I think I'd be someone completely different. Yeah, anyway, that's my two cents on that. Yeah, I think there is something here. And given some of the framing that I've, that I've tried to apply to some of this stuff or just fed, fed back to you a little bit in a different form, can you think of anything that might have happened, um, around five or six years old that represented, what is it? Not represented, but some epiphany you might have had around that age leaning into the idea of learning into the idea of learning. itself of knowledge, of new information, of experiencing the world and gaining understanding.

And maybe specifically in the context of someone or something that made it fun. And that's why I was leaning into this idea of external sources. So there's, it feels like if we imagine this, the cyclone is a person. Maybe there is someone you're iconically representing as a cyclone. They were, they had a lot of manic energy and they whisked into your life and threw it upside down in a in a fun way and like it but they lifted you off the ground and into this place where now you could see and understand other things and it led you to fulfilling this or to conceiving of the outcome as castle in the sky man uh i don't know if framing it that way makes you think of

anything it's a long time ago i know you asked me about five years old i got nothing yeah i'm just trying to think if i think of like any people that stand out i mean family and that kind of thing stands. And you know what? It doesn't have to be a person. It can be a book. It could have been, um, there's books that, you know, stand out to me. Like, I think I had a copy of Aesop's Fables when I was a kid.

And that really opened my eyes to a lot of philosophical stuff of like, oh, sour grapes. That's what that means. Like, wow, I've heard the phrase before. Yeah, I wasn't five, but that stands out to me as a thing where like, now I might have had a recurric, set of recurring dreams about that book and how it opened my eyes to things And every time that situation came around again in my life, this is happening again.

I'm getting my eyes open to something. That's kind of where I'm, I could be completely wrong on this, on this end of thing. This could be something else. It could be instead of learning and understanding, it could be more of a physical experience. And then, you know,

then all the elements could still be the same. Learning and understanding, like I'm feeling something more there. Mm-hmm. I'm not quite sure what it. Yeah. Yeah. And then, see, there's, with historical dreams like this, from, you know, someone's personal history, it could be really hard to sort it out just because they are really old. They're not still happening. If they are still happening, we got something. That's historical and, and current. But if we had a more current dream, if this was currently ongoing, reoccurring dreams, we would know we were on to something if they changed or stopped. There would be some effect from if he hit the right epiphany on on the dream itself. So, um, that said, if, let's see, how do we, how do we characterize that?

If, wow, I had a complete brain, uh, brain derailment there. If, I guess what I'm trying to process and, and put into words is there's a reason they stopped your, um, you know, uh, it, it, so, so, so, so, So it's something more specific than just the process of learning itself, because maybe they would still reoccur occasionally if you were still having that same type of experience of this is, well, so was there anyone that may have left your life or that you get separated from, you know, it could have been a friend or a family member around late teens, early 20s. was there any

yeah sure when you think of that I mean you don't have to name the person or is that someone you knew since you were five or that was maybe like teens maybe but they're dead knows

and that's when they died I mean did you know them since since five no okay yeah that's why I said it doesn't have to be a person. It could have been that you went to the same, not the same school, lived in the same neighborhood even. Sometimes we associate these things with, so the cyclone can be a person. It can be your favorite book. It could be a television program. It could be the neighborhood you grew up in.

You've probably seen, I think we all have movies where they're like an homage to a particular neighborhood that someone grew up. And it's like, those were special. And then I had to grow up and move away because you can't stay there forever. And you look back on it with nostalgia. But I think it was a stand by me and Stephen King was kind of like about that for those kids at that time at that place. And so those are the lines I'm thinking along. There's some, sometimes there's, and it. Stop it.

Stop it. Jesus. He will not leave her alone. He really wants to play. And she's not having it. But anyway. if an experience like that went on regarding a certain set of circumstances for a period of time, then when those circumstances changed, it could be, that's no longer the direct reference anymore.

I guess one thing that happened about the time that I was five, I had my tonsils out. I hemorrhaged and almost died. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Any any any. So if, if there was a strong ear of depth connection, was there anything that would have maybe resolved that by late teens, early 20s that would make the dream not necessary anymore. I haven't had a lot of recurring dreams. I don't remember a lot of my dreams. I'm trying to figure some of this stuff out. Like, well, it really makes these things happen. There's usually a reason. And it may not be a mind-blowing reason. Go ahead. I normally dream to like deal with stress and trauma.

Like it's how one way of processing it. I work in a sleep clinic actually. Oh yeah. Nice. Yeah, I do see BTI part time for people that can't sleep. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's fascinating too because dreams can be extremely meaningful and they can be extremely not meaningful. It's always our own thoughts.

Just kind of, I know the way I can see. of it as I say the lungs breathe, the heartbeats, and the brain thinks. And it just does it whether we're awake or asleep. And it doesn't stop until we die, any of those things. And actually, if any of those things stops, that's how people know we're dead. That's basically, or, you know, when we say brain dead, that's kind of because there's no more activity. It isn't always active, active, like running or jumping or spinning in circles, but it's

always doing something. And that's what's happening. I think, I think dreams are. our unfiltered raw thought process of images, sensations, whatever's the brain's actually doing. And then in the frontal area, we kind of put it together into,

oh, language and understanding and connections and all these different things. So dreams always mean something. It always means something important necessarily. And sometimes they're just for fun. But there's, there's definitely some, and this is what I would do.

And actually, I should probably, I forgot, I have an appointment today. Geez, I completely forgot. My alarm just went off. That's why I said like a bunch of alarms.

But I got a minute to wrap up, of course. You know, what I would say is, is if you're going to give this additional thought going forward, there's some kind of bounded experience or understanding that happened at a particular time period. It carried you from the earliest childhood you can remember until roundabout when you would have considered yourself not. to be a child anymore. Like, you know,

and not just a, you know, when we hit 18, 19, 20, we realize that we thought we were grown up at 15, but we weren't. And now we really are, though. Now it's time to get out of the house, make our own way, get a job,

all that good stuff. It's, we hit that, hit that wall. So there's probably something about childhood itself, about that being a bounded experience. And about, the excitement of,

of new discoveries. transporting you elsewhere. I think there's something in there as well. And you might even have another dream tonight that makes it all clear to you. Or giving it thought over the next days and weeks, something might have a click. What's that?

It might have the same dream. It might come back just talking about it. You never know. But actually, this is weird too. You could have an experience where now you are third person watching yourself as a child have this experience. because that's where you're at right now. You're watching your own memories and analyzing it from an exterior perspective.

So that would not be strange at all to have that kind of experience. But anyway, I do, I do need to wrap it up. I didn't even, I didn't realize that at a meeting today in a little bit. So did you have any additional questions or commentary on the, on the dream thing itself? Or, I don't know, I'm not trying to rush you out the door. I really appreciate your time. Absolutely. No, it's been fun.

I find these are always fascinating. And you know what? I can't always give a definitive answer that someone goes, wow, you nailed it. That's exactly it. And that's okay. But sometimes I just give a little honest feedback that people will think about. And maybe, hey, if you're out there in the audience, and you've got a better idea of like, Mr. Wizard, why didn't you think of this? Why didn't you say that? Tell me in the comments. Tell me I'm wrong about everything. I love that. I love that engagement. And I want to hear that, I want to hear that feedback as well, too. So let me do this. Let me move the cat. I'm sorry. It is better that he comes to attack me instead of the elderly, elderly one. So by way of closing out, I'll just say this has been our friend Joshua Dvorkin from Toronto, Canada.

He is a human experience curator, reclamation coach, trauma-informed program specialist, and the founder of Headway Mental Health. Of course, at headwaymentalhealth.com. For my part, would you kindly like, share, and subscribe? Always need more volunteer dreamers. I do video game streams Monday through Friday, most days of the week, 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. Pacific. Latest book is O'Neiro Chronology, Volume 4, another book four of an anthology set, collecting shorter works of historical dream literature. Or in this case, two entire books

and a rather long article, 300-something, 400 pages. I can't remember how much it was. All this and more at Benjamin the Dreamwizard.com. And if you'd head over to Benjamin thedreamwizard. Dot locals.com. Got a little community there. Be happy to have you. And just once again, Joshua,

thank you for being here. a very interesting conversation and and be sure to let me know if you have any additional insights. I'd love to know if I was even close. Yeah, you know, something's really resonated with me and I had a great time here with you. Thank you so much for inviting me on your podcast today. Definitely. And yeah, if anyone needs help starting anything out, feel free to get in touch and, yeah, I'd be happy to help. Yeah, at the very least, even if I can't give people anything useful,

maybe it's just fun to talk for a minute. That's good enough for me, I guess. Literally. I love to talk. Good deal. All right. Well, the last thing to say is to everybody out there. Thank you for watching.

And hope to see you next time. Bye for now.