Drink Champs - Episode 260 w/ MC Serch

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode we chop it up with the legendary MC Serch!Serch shares his origin story. Starting out as a battle rapper, Serch has made a career in hip-hop.The self proclaimed “Forest Gump” of hip-hop, Serch shares stories of being part of historic moments in hip-hop.Serch talks Eminem, Ecko Unlimited, signing NAS and the creation of his debut album “Illmatic” and a lot more!MC Serch also talks about his company The Timeless Podcast Company and their new podcast  “Did I Ever Tell You About... Big Daddy Kane.”Listen to it here: Did I Ever Tell You The One About...Make some noise!!! 🏆🏆🏆Listen and subscribe at http://www.drinkchamps.com Follow Drink Champs:http://www.instagram.com/drinkchampshttp://www.twitter.com/drinkchampshttp://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps DJ EFNhttp://www.crazyhood.comhttp://www.instagram.com/whoscrazyhttp://www.twitter.com/djefnhttp://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions N.O.R.E.http://www.instagram.com/therealnoreagahttp://www.twitter.com/noreaga Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention.

This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. You can now binge all 10 episodes of Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Drink Champs, a production of the Black Effect and iHeartRadio. And it's Drink Champs motherfucking podcast, make some noise! We'll be right back. most professional, unprofessional podcast, and your number one source for drunk facts. This is Drink Champs motherfucking podcast, where every day is New Year's Eve. It's time for Drink Champs.

Drink up, motherfuckers. Drink up, it's DJ E-F-N. And this is Drink Champs' motherfucking crazy motherfucking Hill of the Hour. And that's all that goddamn shit. Make some noise! I'm so glad we're here. And right now, when you look in at Drink Champs, and you say we started this show for, we said we wanted to have a show that we, you know,

salute our legends. And salute them now, not salute them when they in the coffin and all this. And when you look at this brother that's to the left of me, not only is he a Queens legend. He's a New York City legend. Not only is he a New York City legend. He's a hip-hop legend. He has stood by the culture and put the culture on his back in many different scenarios.

I remember he even had a daytime talk show. I was watching that, too. He was like the Jenny Jones of it. And he kept kept it hip-hop he kept it hip-hop he was having suits on but he kept it hip-hop he's a part of a legendary group one of my favorite songs of all times get the gas face he a part of that he later on went to have a solo career and then had success putting on one of arguably the best MCs of all times. After that, he went on and started doing radio. Heard he got a podcast coming up now. Books, all type of crazy shit.

Hustling, even white rapper shows. Had to do with everything. I could keep going. So in case the people don't know who I'm talking about, we're talking about the motherfucking MC Motherfuckers! You are truly an all-around hustler. Hey, when you from Far Rockaway, Queens, you only got one way to do it.

Goddamn, make some noise for that. You gotta get it how you, Queens, you only got one way to do it. Goddamn, make some noise for that. You got to get it how you get it, you know? But I owe you flowers because I'm able to do my podcast because of the success that you've had here. So we're able to, you know, create the Timeless Podcast Company because of the success that you've had.

That's a beautiful thing. Let's make some noise for that once again. We know you ain't drinking, but the success that you've had. Well, that's a beautiful thing. Let's make some noise for that once again. Let us know you ain't drinking, but the search is how we do. What bottle do you prefer I drink? This is almost champagne, y'all. I know, I know, and I see that.

I think you should go with the rosé. Rosé, all right. Everybody picks rosé. Everybody picks rosé. Okay, all right. We're going to be gold. After we drop the gems, we'll be gold.

And that's an afterplay. So let's take it from the beginning, right? The beginning when hip-hop first came on the scene, you started out as a third bass? Is that where- No, no, no, no. I was a solo battle MC. Really? Yeah.

So when I was coming up, it was just, so you got to imagine taking the A train from Far Rockaway to when I went to high school, music and art, on 135th and Convent. That's in Omaha. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my favorite group that I heard in the street on those cassette tapes was a group called the Kango Crew. Four MCs. They had little skits that they would do around, like, uptown and all of that. Hillbilly girl, Indian girl, like, funny shit. And it was, you know, four dudes, and I went to my first day at high school.

And I went to the lunchroom and I see the cypher in the lunchroom I need regular cups I ain't giving you no regular cups with Mr. Lee I'm getting a regular cup go ahead high school and um I see these dudes rhyming around the lunch table so I go stand on the lunch table and I see these four dudes and they're doing the routine right and then they got all the matching colored kangos. They got the Latigas shirts. That was the era of that, right? Yeah, 1980. Right.

And the dude that was next to me was like, we had a big brother, big sister program where a freshman and a senior would walk you around the school. So my man, Steve Bosco, may he rest in peace,

I turned to him and I said, yo, they doing the Kango crew. And he said, motherfucker, that is the Kango crew. Right. And it was... Oh, you thought they was impersonating the Kango? Yeah, yeah, that is the Kangol crew and it was oh you thought they was in person

yeah yeah cause I had never seen rappers in person and all I heard was these 4th and 5th generation cassette tapes I'd never seen them in person

I just knew the dudes names were you starstruck please man I'd never seen a star in my life like that big and um it was a guy named

Ricky D who became Slick Rick it was a guy named Ricky D. Right. Who became Slick Rick. Wow. It was Dana Dane who became Cinderfella Dana Dane. Right.

And their homeboy is Lance Romance and Omega. That was the Kangol crew. Yeah, that was the Kangol crew. Whoa. Okay. And then right next to them. And then they stopped doing that

and then all of a sudden this dude beatboxes and his name is Dougie Fresh. And they start doing this record called La Di Da Di. I had never heard before. You're witnessing history right now. So, I knew all the words to La Di Da Di before La Di Da Di ever came out in 85. And this is a fact

though, I'm going to tell you. I was so enamored with it that when I went back around my way, I knew nobody heard it. So I started saying them rhymes like they were mine. Right? And to were mine. Right. Right. And to impress girls. Right. We like to party.

We don't fuck. We don't fuck. So, 85 record comes out and I'm at McDonald's in Lindbrook coming out of Hot Skates and the record comes on.

Red Alert plays it because, you know, Kiss FM, they had the, you know, shows Friday, Saturday night.

And the girl that was dating this Dominican chick who would hook me up with Free Big Macs was at the counter and she goes oh shit there's Ricky D

Dominican always got the hook up and the dude behind me goes motherfucker that ain't Ricky D he blows up my spot so I boogie

but it was that indoctrination and watching the dudes like right next to him was this dude Jrination and watching the dudes like right next to him was this dude J. Cool and J. Cool and his brother formed the Fresh 3 MCs

and before I left high school I'm hearing F-R-E-S-H fresh, fresh, fresh yo that's fresh Pumpkin and All Stars you know I was having O.C. and Crazy Eddie were coming to my school

dating this girl in the show. They had a record called Problems of the World Today. So I'm like 17 years old, and I'm like, damn, I can do this. And my man, mathematics and understanding were like, no. You can watch it, but you can't be a part of this. You're a white boy. You're a devil. You could come to the dinner table.

Wasn't the Beastie Boys out before? No, no. So this is 84't the Beastie Boys out like before? No, no. So this is 84. So Beastie Boys was in 88? Beastie Boys came in 86. 86, okay, so this is 84. This is mad early on. Because I graduated high school in 85.

So I actually graduated high school with Mark Pitts, Changing Faces. So I knew I could do it. I knew I could do it, but I wasn't really allowed to do it. So I knew I could do it. Like, I knew I could do it, but I wasn't really allowed to do it. So I was just a bad limousine. So I was basically, my man Mav and my man Unstanding would have me battle all through, like, the five boroughs. And they were moving their little thing, things, right, right? So they would go to, like...

You got the flat top, right? Not yet. I had a juke throw, though. I had a crazy juke throw. Go, go, cool, cool. But, um, um, so what they would do is, because one of the things I learned early on was, like, when people started battle rhyming,

they all had pre-prepared rhymes. Right. Nobody was rhyming off the top of their head. Freestyle. So I'm like, yo, that's going to be my thing. Right. Like, I'm going to freestyle. I'm going to come off the top of my head and be just as good.

And better. Better. Fuck good. Better. Because I had to be ten times better because I'm the only fucking white boy out. The only other white people you saw at the park dance was the police. I was the only white boy out. You said the police? Yeah. Oh, okay. So,

they would set up these battles for me and I would show up at the, you know, these little jams or whatever. And as soon as I came up the subway steps Whatever little money was being bet as soon as they were like, oh that's MC search the money would triple like oh, yeah Oh, no, we got it. We got it. We got on guys. Hold on. Hold on. Is this similar to like white man. Yeah, I was the original white man. Can't jump, bro. Cool, cool, cool. So like, so these dudes. That's why you just described it. OK. White man can't rap.

Right. No, white man can't do shit. Like, yo. And I wasn't even a white man. It was the devil. Devil can't do shit. You're not just white. You're a devil.

You're a white devil. Like, let's be clear. Like, let's. But people, let's describe this era. This era is heavily infused by a culture of 5%, which was, so, I don't want people to think, like, that was just, it was just, at that time, it was heavily infused. No, it was at that time, listen,

it was a black art form, and there was no, the only white boy I ever saw rhyme ever was this kid, Lord Scotch, a.k.a. Blake, who now writes Keo. Like, he was the first white rapper I ever saw. So, I would come up the steps, and then the numbers would triple,

and they would be like, oh, oh, oh, that's search, oh, 100, 200, 300, right? So, they'd be the cypher, and these dudes would start beatboxing and rhyming for the dude in the project. So, whoever, Vandermeer, Moss, wherever they were from.

And they would battle me, but that was all pre-written rhymes. So, it was usually always two rounds. It never went three. It was always two rounds. So they would battle me, but that was all pre-written rounds. So it was usually always two rounds. It never went three. It was always two rounds. So the first round, whatever the dude said to me, it went over my head. I would just break them down head to toe. I would just

look at what they were wearing. I would see what they were wearing, and I would clown them. That was my first move. On the freestyle. Was there pre-written for you? So wearing and I would clown them. That was my first move. On the freestyle, freestyle. Off the top of that. Was there pre-written for you? Were they, so you were already ahead of them.

Right, and not only that, the other thing that was crazy was because I went to a music school. When they tried to do the beat box, I'd be like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go acapella. And they'd be like, yo, what do you mean you're going acapulco, what the fuck you talking about? I'm like, you know, I don't need no beat, I don't need acapella, right?

So I would rhyme just off the top of my head with no beat. So now, you know, now you got me saying shit about what you're wearing, and now all their boys are like, oh, this is a problem. Right? And mind you, I'm by the train. Like, I'm right by the train. So the battle's happening right by the train. So the second round, the dude is now shook.

Always shook. And now the second round comes and now nobody want to lose the white kid neither though definitely don't want that to happen but now but then the other thing the temperature's going up because now all the stick-up kids are like whatever he gets we're gonna get it back anyway right so that's that's the heat that's you gotta imagine the temperature's like going up. Right. That's real shit. Right? So now the second one, whatever he says to me, I'm taking all his words against him.

I'm like, oh, you said this, but you should have said this. So now I'm going to turn around and make it a diss and dismiss everything you just said. Right? And now they're like, oh! You know how that go. You know how that go, right? Oh! Oh, my God!

The devil! Oh Oh my god The devil Oh my god So So my man So they would then Pass the money to me And as soon as I got the money I would dip back to the train

Before the stick up happened So I would hop the train And I was gone But just one time Can't you get away with it Right Yeah no We had to get away

And my boys were smart Like that Like they thought about it At the time We were like You know This know, this is going to be a problem. And they weren't going to fuck with my two boys because then they would fuck up the train, right? Like, they didn't want the money to stop. So it was what it was. So this one time, I'm laughing, but it's nothing funny.

This one time, so my, by like, so this happened like 1984, 85. By 86, 87, I'm a beast. Like, I'm like, I got my 10,000 hours plus another 10, right? We do this one battle. My man, Reggie Reg is DJing a party in Brooklyn. Right. And I'm battling this Latin kid, a Spanish kid, right? And I think I might have been zooted at the time.

Like, I might have been smoking Woolers at the time. Woolers, for those who don't know, is weed and dust. Yeah, weed and crack, right. Dust, it's dust. Okay, all right, let's go. So I was smoking Wooler. I think it might have been. I'm not 100% sure.

But all I know is I'm on my way to Latin Quarter. So, like, it's a Friday night. I'm going to get my money right. I'm going to go, you know, and my man was DJing in a park jam there anyway. So I'm like, all right, cool. So thising in a park jam there anyway, so I'm like I cool So this dude is Latin dude. He already has an attitude And I'm already kind of it's already known that there's this white kid MC search, and he's doing his thing whatever So the dude battles me typical style

He got his written and I break them and I mean I broke them to the point where his own girl is like trying to pass me the math. Like, so his face is now screwed. He got the screw face looking. He don't even want to kick a second verse. But he kicks his second verse. And when he kicks his second verse, I can see where his building was and where his mom was. And his mom calls to him in the middle of the verse,

like, blah, blah, blah, blah, come. And he pulls out a pack of Newports to smoke a Newport. And I said, yo, it's coincidental that your mom's calling you and you're picking out that Newport because I'm going to smoke you. And before you say anything else,

shh, call it a bokeh. Right? And this dude's face got great, like I had never seen a dude's face get like, like, right? So now the dip happens, the dip happens, I get the money, I dip. And it was a big collection, it was like,

it was a lot of money. Go to Latin Quarter, hang out, Paradise, you know, the whole thing. You must have been four at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I go to Latin Quarter, I come back, I'm helping my man. I've never been to the original Latin Quarter.

I've been to the one that comes down five times after. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Dominican spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to the one on 96. I think the original was on 86. But yeah.

So, I come back, I'm helping my man break down his set. And at the time, and you'll remember this as a DJ, you had these- You had these crates. Not even crates, you had the amps. The big coffee with the amps.

But the amp was this big. I had a crown amp. You didn't carry everything. You had to carry all the cars. Yo, sound system carrying the U-Go. Like I was carrying the U-Go, right? Turn tables, Mercedes. Everything, everything.

So we're breaking down, it's like 5 o'clock in the morning. So it's like four or five o'clock in the morning. It might've been four o'clock in the morning. And my man says something to me. I turn my head, I hear a pop and the amp breaks in my hand. And he's like, yo, what the fuck you did? I'm like, what the fuck you mean I did? And I look. And as soon as I looked, the dude's cracking back to 25.

Shoot me a second time. So I'm like oh Spock for dip right to the train gone and I never bowed in the projects again

wow and I realized that I was a beast like that at that moment right the fear

and the adrenaline right it manifested into something else right it manifested into the fact that I was a beast. Like if somebody wanted to kill me, they wanted to get rid of you.

So let me bounce around a little bit. You worked in Detroit radio, correct? It was way later though. I'm just bouncing around. So being that Detroit radio and Detroit related to Eminem, when you watched 8 Mile, I know I'm bouncing around a little bit.

Did you look at that and say, man, like, because that's like, you know, you're describing the first 8 Mile, and you know, and let's pick up, you know, because Trick Trick sat in your same position, that's my man, but we didn't know hip hop was acting like that in Detroit. Like, we didn't know it like that.

We knew it in New York. Like the hip hop shop and all of that. And New York was really, like I'm talking about from back then, like New York was really so, did you look at Eminem's story and say at first, is this like a little copy of the bars? Similarities? Similarities?

I had met Em, no I met Em when he was signed to John Schecter's label, Game Records. So I heard Bad Vs. Evil way before I was ever in Detroit. The Infinite LP? Yeah, right. So when I heard Em, That's before he was ever in Detroit. The Infinite LP? Right. So, when I heard Em... That's before he was signed for Jerry? No, way before.

Way before. And this was before he was down with the kids at Jersey. Way before. And his first... Yeah, the Infinite LP, he sounded like Nas and Jay-Z, like a combination. I hear people say he sounded AZ-ish. That too. Like, he had all those

influences at that time. You have to understand his biggest influence, Marshall's biggest influence was Kane. Like that's his favorite MC. So it makes sense, right? But when I heard Bad vs. Evil...

Like I called him Marshall. I like that. You know what I'm saying? I know him personally. No, no, no. That's what he goes by. But I mean... That was a floor.

We don't know him, sir. Let me spray some cream. We don't know him, no. That's what he goes by. But I mean... That was a floss. We don't know him, sir. Let me spray some cream. We don't know him, sir. We got to call him M&M. Over here, all right? That's not true. You can call him Marshall, too. But one of the things,

when I went to Detroit, I called Paul and I called M. Yeah, I see Paul as your man. I was just watching some interviews and researching up on you. When you thought about doing your book, one of the first people you called was Paul. Okay, cool. Well, Paul was heavy as a lawyer repping a lot of people in New York before M got put on.

Correct. A lot of the underground, yeah. And he was also an MC. Wait, he was an MC and he was a raucous lawyer? No, not a raucous, but a lawyer for a lot of those MCs. Like the Backpack Era. Get out of here. Like the guy who designed

our logo, Scam. Get out of here. He repped him and that's how Scam has a song with Eminem. Wow. Okay, Paul, I didn't know that.

My bad. I owe you some more respect. All right, my bad. So I called Paul and I said, look, I'm going to come to Detroit. What do you think?

And he's like, do it. He didn't even hesitate. He's like, do it. He didn't even hesitate. He's like, do it. The city will show you so much love. And M really showed me a lot of love. Because at the time, him and the station I was working at, JLB, didn't see eye to eye. But when 50 came into Detroit during the G unit era, we did a five-day special with 50. Like, when Em would drop something, he would come to me first.

Like, when Em had the Benzino beef, he came to me first. Like, he really, really, really showed me a lot of love. And when we did the Hip Hop Summit with Russell. Russell, I was there. I mean, I was there. Yeah, it was 13,000 people. I mean, 13,000 people to come here, rappers, not rap, to talk about economic independence. Norrie spent 25 minutes talking about investments in property, talking about long-term investments in stocks and bonds, and also protecting his royalties through his lawyer and through his management.

And that was the two most important things for him to make sure that he had proper when he was getting ready to start to invest. Real shit. So that's 2003. That's the only time I met Eminem ever in life. It was that time in Detroit Hip Hop Summit. It's the only time. And he was so, like, it was amazing, like, to see Nasir, to see Em, to see Nori.

And, you know, and the truth of the matter is... Russell was there. Russell, Dougie Fresh. There was a lot of people there. Let me bounce around because you just gave me the alley-oop. No, no, no. I'm going to give you... There's going to be plenty of alley-oops, brother. I hope you got the hops.

Listen, listen, listen. I read somewhere that you had a choice between OC and Nas to sign Damn I was at the same time No no no I signed both It wasn't a choice I know you signed them both

But at one point didn't you sign OC first I did sign OC first And he was on the original Back to the Gorilla Grant Yeah there's a remix And the remix is with Nas No no no So this is, no. So O.C. was already signed to Searchlight.

He had Fudge Pudge out. You know, I love that verse. It's one of the greatest verses to me. Two of the greatest verses in the early 90s is obviously Live at the Barbecue and Fudge Pudge. Okay, let me ask you something. Yes, sir. Make sure we go back to our question.

Live at the Barbecue came out first. Yes, sir. Okay, all right, cool. Continue your story. Yeah. All right, let's do this. He's debating. He's debating.

I don't like to Google sometimes. I got the guy right here. I'm going to ask him. Fuck Googling. I'm sorry. Continue your story. No, so when I met Monch and I met Poe and I was like, yo, I got to sign. Oh, I got to sign him.

Organize confusion. All right. I'm sorry. Organize confusion. I'm sorry. Organized confusion. I'm talking like real. I'm forgetting the whole world. We got a couple of poor people who watch us. If somebody wants to Google, we got to give them that information.

So I signed OC. And then I was in the studio working on my solo album. And Percy P, the Riddler, O, Nas came into the studio with my man Rob Tullo, Reef, Daddy Free, and Stretch. And they all came in. And we were gonna do Back to the Grill regardless. Back to the Grill then was gonna happen regardless. And everybody did a, oh, and Akanele was there too.

Sorry, pardon me. Goddamn, left, right, we in the building, goddamn. We in the building, goddamn. and everybody did a oh and Akanele was there too sorry pardon me god damn left right we in the building god damn wait live at the barbecue that already came out right is this a play off of that

off of that song no no no no this is now when I'm doing my solo album in 1993 this is like 3 years later right but it's not a play off

live at the barbecue was it 90 1990 I'm saying play off because live at the barbecue and it's back to the Grill again. It feels like it's a play off of it. I never even thought about that.

It's not. We had a song on our Cactus album called Kick Him in the Grill. That's when OC was on, right? No, Kick Him in the Grill was Chub Rock. That was my Back to the Grill. That was from Kick Him In The Grill was Chub Rock. Chub Rock was on it. That was my Back To The Grill. That was from Kick Em In The Grill. Right, got it. Because when we did shows, that was one of the biggest,

like when we did Kick Em In The Grill on tour, like everybody loved that record. So I was like, fuck it, I'm going to do Back To The Grill again. But I'm going to have other people on it. And Red Hot Lover Tone was already my man. So he was in the lab anyway. He wanted me to manage him as an artist Not as When I was Things give me hip hop chills right now

When I was When I was the senior VP When I was at Wild Pitch Right And I brought O One of the records that was already there Was Third Eye And there's a record

Third Eye With Jess West That we had called Put Your Boots On Right Let me tell you something I was so fucking happy To be at Wild Pitch

Cause I had OC I had OC, I had Jess West, I had Kool Keef, I had Large Professor, and I was just about to put out Illmatic. Like, I was about to be the hottest motherfucker in the game. Are you going way too fast right now? Yeah, that's crazy. It's like you're drinking. You ain't even drinking.

So, yeah, that's why I don't drink and that's why I don't smoke because my mind goes. So, we go back to the grills, and we're doing back to the grill again, right? All those dudes come in. Nas stays behind. Everybody ignores us.

Op tells me, he's like, yo, I'm about to sign my deal. Warner Brothers, I'm not sure I can be on this single. I'm going to rhyme anyway, but I'm not sure I can be on it. Percy P and the Riddler, they also said they had deals. They didn't know if they could be on it. O is down with me, so it was going to happen. So now stays behind. And when everybody leaves, Nas tells me like, he got this deal. He don't feel right about, and he wanted me to take a look at it. And I said, I can't, I can't like it's legally, legally. I can't do it. I said,

but if you sign a searchlight, I can help you. And he goes, well, what does that mean? I said, it's simple. It's a one-page agreement. You sign a searchlight. Production deal? Production deal. I'll furnish the album.

I said, I won't take any money. I won't take any advance. I'll make sure you get the best deal in the world. And then on your publishing, I won't take any publishing. I'll take a 5% admin fee, which means I'll help the publisher administer your publishing to make sure people don't use your shit in a wrong way, so you're taken care of, and you'll keep all your shit.

And there's a one-page agreement, and he goes, all right, I got to think about it, because he's 17 years old. So he's like, so I was like, oh, he's never coming back. He's not. Even I knew, like, in 93, he's going to be the greatest MC of all time. And you knew this over one verse?

Over one verse. And that one verse, one of the credits said, Laugh at the Barbecue. Let me put it this way. Okay. When I heard CNN's first album... No, no, no.

Let me just... No, no, no. Not fuck you. I need you to hear this. I need you to hear this. I need you to hear this. I'm going to say what I'm going to say, but I need you to hear this. When I heard the war this. I'm going to say what I'm going to say, but I need you to hear this.

When I heard the war report, and I got a call from Neil Levine to work, what? I did it for free. I worked that record for free. We'll give you your flowers. We'll give you your flowers. This story is too crazy. So the next day, I'm in the studio working on Back to the Grill again. Nas shows up with Jungle, his brother.

Yes, that's right. They throw four blunts on the table, and he says, explain this to me. So I said, this is how it's going to work. This is how it goes down. I'm going to shop your deal. I'm going to go back to those guys. I'm going to make sure that they do the right thing

if that's where you want to be. But if they don't get through the right thing. Faith Noon? Faith? This is before Faith. This is Stretch Armstrong and Rob and Reef at Big B who offered him

the deal first. That's the deal he felt funny about. At Big B. I ain't gonna lie. You schooling me right now. That's why I knew to get you. Stay right here. I'm not moving. I got my seatbelts on. You fucking me up right now. I ain't gonna lie. I never heard this. Who's at Big B at the time. Just to get the... I ain't allowed to ever heard this.

But who's that Big Beat at the time? Just to understand that era. Is that Stretch and Bobby, don't you say? Or Stretch and... No, no, no. It's Stretch and Reef. Reef, Reef.

Okay, they were in A&R. And why did they say 4-5? And Craig Kalman was the head of Big Beat. It was his label. So he's not at Atlantic. He's not at Warner, Craig Kalman, at this time.

It's part of the Atlantic system. Okay, go ahead. But he's got his own imprint. Okay. He put out the double X posse, he was putting out the artifacts with Reef who had signed those groups. And they were going to sign Nas. Okay. So we just get to smoking

and chilling. And then he says, you know what? I'm going to fuck with you. Signs the paper. The next day I go to Reef and Stretch and I said guys the deal you offered him is the same deal that I signed in 1988

it's not a good deal he's the greatest MC of all time you don't even need to hear anything else right and Reef and Stretch felt some type of way about it. And I and I understand that. They're like, you know, why are you getting involved? And I said, look, he asked me for my help when you guys left. He asked me for my help. I saw the deal. It's the same deal that I fucking signed to Def Jam in 88, which to this day in 2021, I've never seen a check.

I've never seen a royalty statement. I've never seen publishing. I never got shit from fucking left-hand records I mean Def Jam records, right? So I said I can't let him sign this deal. Just tell just make the deal, right? They said well, how do you make the deal right? I said remove the publishing When I if you want to sign this publishing, that's a separate deal Bump this up bump that up. I stayed there for about five hours because they were my men. They were my friends. And finally, Craig Kalman, through those guys, said, we're not changing the deal. Ping, out. I went to Russell.

Next move, I went to his apartment on 4th and Broadway. Okay, I heard this. Russell says to me, he sounds like G-Rap, and G-Rap don't sell no records, so I'm not interested. Oh, shit. Gone. I went to Columbia, and I went to Faith. Faith didn't let me leave.

He signed an amazing deal, and then once I left that deal, I went to Zamba Publishing, because I had a great relationship with Richard Blackstone, who was the head. And Zamba is, just correct me if I'm wrong,

isn't that Jive? It's Jive. Right, so Jive is the record label. Okay, Zamba's a publishing company like Warner, Warner Tappel. Yes, sir. Okay, continue. I know my shit publisher. Zamba is the publisher, a company like Warner, Warner Tappel. Yes, sir. Okay, continue. I know my shit sometimes.

So I went to them and they said, how many songs are you going to have on the album? I said, probably 12, right? He said, well, you know he's only going to get paid on 10. I said, okay, fine. That was standard back then. That was standard. They gave me a check for Nas. I went to the 40 side.

40 side of Burden? Because one thing Nas said to me, I said, what do you want? He said, all I want is to get my mother out to projects. He said, if you can help me get my mother out to projects, we good. I went to see him with two checks for 300,000. I said, move your mother out to projects. Wow.

And Illmatic was born from that day on. Yeah, you still watch that. Yeah, you still watch that. You still watch that. But it wasn't like Illmatic just born from that day. Yeah, Illmatic. You still watch that? You see, Illmatic. But it wasn't like Illmatic just before or after that. All right, so, boom. And one more noise. Made the Library of Commerce.

Yeah, Illmatic. Yes, Illmatic. Illmatic. Okay. All right, so now... The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network,

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and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution.

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And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.

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All right. Now, how does the actual making of Illmatic start? Because when we Google you, they credit you for executive producer Illmatic and it was written. Correct. All right, so let's just stay on Illmatic. So it was really simple.

My role was really simple. Make everything easy for Nas. All I, obviously, I could not help him make a record. Like, that's fucking ridiculous. Right? It's like a blind man helping Picasso.

It wasn't going to happen. So all I know I could do, really, is... Never heard that type of analogy, and I like it. I'm still, no. A blind man helping Picasso. Listen, I'm still an emcee. Don't get it fucked up. He got balls.'m still an MC. Don't get it fucked up.

He got balls. He still got balls. So my job was simple. Whatever the producers made, I made sure the samples were cleared. Period. Okay, Serge, I just want to stop you for one second.

But that's important what he just said right now. You know, when I say, you know, a lot of times I say, you know, Pharrell came to me and I just knew

this guy was going to be the next guy. I just knew it. And it's easy for me to say, but I want you to really break it down for people who will never actually visualize the actual time era. Because Russell said something to you that's very vital to this conversation. Okay. you that's very vital to this conversation okay is at that time lyrics were you were the dopest guy but you might not necessarily be the richest guy so how does this process start of this illmatic and and and what role was you playing okay so one thing i tell young artists all the time is that the most important part of the journey when you sign a contract is in the advance.

How many points you get from your record. Nas's first album, he had the same points as Billy Joel. And Billy Joel had been an artist for 20 years. Because I wanted to make sure that he was protected. I also made sure that the recording budget was really low. Right. So he wouldn't have any recoupment. Recoupment, right.

But I also knew... For people that don't know that, meaning he wouldn't owe a lot. Before he sees money off the album, they have to recoup everything spent on the album. And you said that it was important for you to get all the samples cleared, which in that era, people were still not clearing a lot of samples, which was ruining their careers as well. Well, I've never seen a check from a third base record.

Because back then, when you sampled, they would take 100% of your publishing. They didn't care if you was even paying them or was it like that. Well, if you didn't clear it, they could do whatever they want when they come back in court.

That's what they're doing now. That's what these young motherfuckers are doing now. They're just sampling this shit, getting caught, just saying, just take this shit. But back then, they were at least trying to clear the sound. Well, we tried.

We tried, but with us, it was different. With us, it was, and when I say us, it was a team. It was my man Sake, a.k.a. Mark Pearson. I gotta give him his flowers, because I don't think he gets enough recognition. He was my GM at Searchlight. I mean, so, like, Mark

ran day to day. So, Nas was never signed to Wild Pitch. It at Searchlight. Okay. I mean, so, like, Mark ran day to day. So Nas was never signed to Wild Pitch. It was Searchlight? He was signed to Searchlight Columbia. Okay, continue. But for all intents and purposes, it was Columbia. We were just the production company. So if you see the first print, it says executive producer Faith Newman, MC Search.

There's a little Searchlight production logo on the bottom. But it wasn't our label. So I wanted to make sure all the samples were cleared. So anytime Primo did a record, anytime any of the other producers did a record, I said, give me all the sample clearance information. Cleared all the samples, got it all done, all under budget, everything was done.

When the album came out April 23rd, that first week we did 165,000 albums week one. Nas was done. When the album came out April 23rd, that first week we did 165,000 albums week one. Nas was a millionaire week one. He's never had an unrecouped week in his fucking career. Ever. Ever. That's unheard of.

That's unheard of. Now the other side of that, the unfortunate side is OC, which is a story I've never told. Okay, we need to hear this. That's why I asked you. That's like, it was like OC and Nas was almost like, some would argue that even at one point, OC was the go-to guy. That's why I asked you. It felt like you signed OC first, but you had.

No, no, no. I did sign OC first, and I got him as deal when I went to Wild Pitch. Okay, so now let's take it from where you just said. So with OC, when we signed OC to Wild Pitch, Wild Pitch was going through EMI, right? I was no longer going to make records with Third Bass. I'd already put out my indie, my independent record, not solo record, sorry, solo record with Def Jam. My wife and I were going to have our first child.

And Third Base was on CBS, right? It was on Def Jam, Sony, Def Jam, CBS, whatever. But it was Def Jam. So I did my solo record, it did okay. We did about 400,000 copies, we had two number one records. It was okay. It wasn't terrible. It was okay But I took a lot of money off the table on that deal because I never got shit from Russell before So I wanted to make sure I kicked off right? So when I made the decision to go to wild pitch, I said I gotta bring old with me

So my deal with wild pitch was I'm gonna have O with me And we're gonna make his first album O With Nas Nas knew what he wanted, he did what he did And it was done There was some really cool moments During that time, like me driving him to

Mount Vernon 40 times To go get the 100 tracks From Pete and they finally settled on that But for the most part to Mount Vernon 40 times to go get 100 tracks from Pete, and they finally settled on that. But for the most part, like, with Q-Tip, it was one and done. Primo was, you know, it was really just simple. It was simple. LES, it was in his backyard.

Like, whatever they did, they did. You know, it was all of that. And it was easy. With OC, OC would bring me track after track after track, and I'd be like, nope, nope. Because for me, as a guy who loves hip-hop and had the real privilege, and I say it as a privilege,

I was the Forrest Gump of hip-hop at one point. Anything that ever happened from 1985 to whatever, I was there. I was there when Skylar Rock died. I was there when KRS Rock died. I was there when KRS and Milly Mel battled in Latin Quarter. I was I mean I was there every Juncture of I was there when Public enemy got booed off the stage of Latin Quarter and a year later came back with rebel without a pause

Like I mean I was I was there like I was like a super film. You know I'm saying like yeah I Was there when G rap told me there was a kid in in in left rack aka I read him and his man were coming together with a group. I was there I got a question because he lived around the corner and he had an artist named white boy. Oh, yes he did Yes he did right? So right so I was just the farthest gun for hip hop. I was everywhere. Right?

So, with O, he'd make song after song after song, and I'd say, no. We're not ready. It's not ready. You're not ready. It's not ready. And it got to a point where we almost, like, on a regular basis, we would almost get to fisticuffs on the roof of Wild Pitch, where I thought every time, like, I might get thrown off the roof or he might get thrown off the roof.

But I said, please, I said, oh, just trust me. Trust me. When you make the right record, we'll know and everything else will happen. Please believe me. I'm in my office. O comes in. He's dead silent. And he pushes me out of the way

and I'm like oh here we go and I said oh and he said and he pressed the dat player and he put in a dat see the hairs are growing to this day and I went I lost and my went, oh!

I lost, and my office went, oh, my God, what's going on? I mean, they... And we hugged, and he said... That's the one. We're done. And two weeks later, Word Life was done. Two weeks, everything came. No main topic. Everything, everything.

What year was that record? When that record dropped. Yo, let me tell you something. I don't know where I'm at in the world, but that was hip-hop, bro. When that... I got a call from Flex at the tunnel. I'm in bed with my wife and my newborn.

If you look at the OC album, Word Life, on the bottom left corner, there's a baby and a cat in a bassinet with light shining on it. That's my daughter. That's my oldest daughter. I get a call at midnight. It's Flex from the tunnel. Come now. And my wife's like,

you ain't going nowhere. I'm like, Flex just called me to the tunnel. I'm gone. I said, I love you, honey. You and I, we will work on our relationship. But I'm gone. And I boogied. Like, I said, I love you, honey. You and I will, we will work on our relationship in the morning. But I'm gone. And I boogied.

I mean, I boogied to the tunnel. And from my house to the tunnel was like 23 minutes. I got there at 17. By the grace of the most high, there was parking right on the block. I scoot up. I cut through the line. Jessica lets me through. I get to the DJ booth. Gives me a hug.

He goes, watch. Whatever he was playing took off. Vicka, vicka, vicka, vicka. And the whole crowd. Oh! Their time's limited.

Hard Rocks to rap. And baby Chris, may he rest in peace, grabs me. He goes, I need to manage OC. Right? At that time,

there was this, this was the parallel. There was baby Chris, may he rest in peace, and he had Violator. So he had Def Jam. There was Puff with Big and Craig, and there was me with Nas and OC. And that was the trifecta in New York.

That was the trilogy. Who you saw Chris had? Chris had Violator. So he had Busta, and he had, you know, so Scenario, he had Tribe, he had, you know. Native Tongue, basically. Yeah, basically. But he was, and he was the go-to manager.

Puff was the go-to producer, and I was the go-to executive production company. And that's what we were, right? And that's how we kind of had this thing. The problem was, I had O signed to the wrong label, and the other problem was, I was a 24-year-old who didn't know shit about being an executive. And while Chris had Lior and Russell and James Cruz,

and Puff had Andre Harrell. And this one, that one, I had nobody. And I was making decisions, making grown man decisions as a fucking child. Because I'm just happy. I'm just happy to be making music. I'm just happy being able to feed my family and just being able to do what I love. Like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Right.

But I know radio. Right. So I know that Right? But I know radio. Right? So I know that part. And I know music. But the everything else, I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. And that's how I kind of,

that's where this fell. And Nas's deal was, I wasn't going to do a long-term deal with Nas. It wasn't set like that. And Nas didn't want me to do a long-term deal. It was get him right. Do, it was written. I didn't want me to do a long-term deal. It was get them right.

Do, it was written. I didn't want to have my name on it. It was written, but I took care of all the business. And that was it. Right? So that was that. And then Wild Pitch folded. And as soon as it folded, I met Mark Echo.

And I started building Echo Unlimited with Mark. Right, the clothing line. Wow. You were part of the beginning of the clothing line as well. Yeah. Wow. I did all the marketing and promotion for Echo Unlimited with Mark. Right, the clothing line. Wow. You were part of the beginning of the clothing line as well. Yeah. Wow. I did all the marketing and promotion for Echo Unlimited

at the beginning. When I met Mark, Mark was doing shirts on Broadway. Right. And it was Ill Bill, my man, we later did nonfiction together, who said to me,

yo, there's this dude, he does shirts, you should check him out, he needs help, it's Echo Unlimited. So we went from 95 doing i don't know a couple of hundred thousand a year to when i left in 98 99 we were at 957 million a year you know what i'm saying so now it turned into complex media and all and yeah and and i was so thankful

that mark allowed me to see that like to watch that he let me watch Complex grow. I'm dear friends with Rich Ancinello and all the guys up there. I even got a little clock made out of me. And we when we did the Madden 2000 on the on the Madden, the Echo team, I'm on that team. So I'm on the team. Yeah, I know. I know. So it's like, you know, so I was one of these guys that I was fortunate enough that I was everywhere. And I had the history of radio because when we were coming up, we were basically told, look, if you some fucking white boys that are going to get on black radio, you better know every black program director

forward and backwards, right? Because they weren't playing hip hop during the day, not even on Kiss, nothing. So I had to learn all of that. I had to learn who these people were. And I learned them. And not only did I learn them, but I appreciated them. So the first radio station I ever went to

to pitch my record, Step Into The AM, was Helen Little at DAS. And Wes Johnson at the time was the head of... So you had to work your own records? Yeah. I had to work them. So I'm about to break it down. So when we went to see Helen Little at DAS in Philly,

shout out to Philly, she was the first woman in urban radio to run a group. DAS was like a group. Right. And when I went in there, I started telling her about her history. Started telling her how, I knew how she came up.

I knew what she did because I went to the New York Public Library and studied. There was no fucking Google. Right. Fuck a Google. Right. You know, Google was some,

a baby, that was a noise, a baby made. You know what I mean? There was no fucking internet. You know what I mean? It was me going to the, but I knew them.

And my favorite story is, so I went in there for 45 minutes. When I left, Wes went in there. Five minutes, comes out. And this is like a corporate urban station. And Wes, Wes Johnson, may he rest in peace, he was like a mixture between Jim Brown and Don King.

Hair, like this, 6'7". And he goes, you! I want to see you in the fucking back of the station right now. And I'm shook. I'm fucking 6'1", 215. He's fucking 6'6", 3-something. And he says to me, meet me by the dumpsters. You know what that means and I just said

and he pulls me in and he goes I want to know everything you just said to Helen Little I want to know every fucking thing you just said so my voice goes up about 10 octaves

I told you about what you said and I run down everything he goes he goes let me tell you something let me tell you something you little fucking white boy let me tell you something

I got Public Enemy I got LL Cool J I got Slick Rick you know what the tell you something. Let me tell you something, you little fucking white boy. Let me tell you something. I got Public Enemy. I got LL Cool J. I got Slick Rick. You know what the fuck you just did to me? He goes, I got to go back there, tell them black artists, you're the first fucking rapper on Def Jam to have full-time rotation on fucking DAS. Whatever the fuck you just did in there,

you're going to do it at every other station we go to. We're going to Philly. We're going to Baltimore next. And I had to learn all those dudes and he benefited but make some noise for that I don't know if this is a rumor or not But you wrote on Bebe Kids? I wrote I wrote Five four songs on Bebe Kids the soundtrack. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I wrote I wrote they when they say I wrote five, four songs on Baby It Kits. The soundtrack? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, all right. I wrote the Jefferson song, I wrote the Money song,

yeah, I wrote all of that. Oh. Yeah, I wrote all of that. So you got to meet the late great? No, no, I actually was connected to a friend of mine, Bill Stephanie. Okay. He was executive producer of the music soundtrack,

and he's like, yo, I need you to write. Wow. I was like, cool. That's dope. You know, Baby It Kits is one of my favorite movies, and he's like, yo, I need you to write. Wow. I was like, cool. That's dope. You know, Baby A.K.'s one of my favorite movies of all time, like that. But um, no, but that was also, the funny thing was, when I was in the middle of my kind of transition

out of hip hop, people like Barry Weiss, you know, they would say, hey, if you're ever done rapping come work for my promotion department do promo so when I went back to Def Jam I wasn't Def Jam as an artist I went there as running the CHR department and when I left there I started working records and one of the first records I worked

was Nori's records but also search like promotion I think 80% of every hip hop record that came out of a label we worked right so now let me fast forward boom you work with Nas you do this Nas and Jay actually have as a punchline. He says, I know who I paid,

God, search like... Like publishing. Yeah, he said, but you weren't getting paid, dog. You were getting fucked then. I know who I paid, dog, search like publishing. So the story,

the true story about that, it's really great. Because I don't know. I don't know. No, this is a great story. Yeah. So I'm the head of CHR at Def Jam

and they're about to put out that reasonable doubt. And Kareem, I think it was Kareem. It was either Kareem, Dame and Jay or Dame and Jay come to my office and said, hey, we got to clear this sample, this dead president

sample. Take care of us. I said, okay, no problem. Give me like 2,500. But just know we're going to have 25% of your record on the publishing. And he was like, all right, cool. And that was it. He gave me a check for 2,500. I delivered it to Zamba.

But if you look at the liner notes on Dead Presidents Nas is one of the publishers so I say yeah that line can live as much as it lives but Jay don't own a piece of Nas' catalog but Nas owns a piece of Jay's catalog and that's a fact though we didn't know that because we thought like when he said

that search like publishing that he was meaning that Nas didn't have none of his publishing. Oh, you had. No, no, no, no. Nas Publishing. No, no, no.

That's what he was insinuating. Yeah, I have a 5% admin fee, which to this day, on those two albums, I just make sure things, if Nas wants to do it, I just sign off. That's it.

For me, when I think about being a production company, I think there's two trains of thought. Train one is the artist ain't shit and the production company

makes all the money. Well, the second train is the artist ain't shit and I'm going to figure out how to jerk the artist. That's most of how hip-hop is running their production companies.

I had a third train of thought, which was I wasn't going to be the Jew to take advantage of a black man. So I don't need to get wealthy off Nas, and I don't. My checks are very humble, and I'm okay with that

because they're going to go for the rest of my life. You know, when you think about streaming today, right, and you think about Illmatic, Illmatic streams $ 400 million a year. To this day. I get my fair share. I don't get more than I deserve. I don't get less than I deserve. I get exactly

what the contract says. In fact, and I'll keep it a buck with all of y'all, 2007, I get a letter from Sony. They say, oh, we overpaid you. So you're not going to be getting a check. And my lawyer goes, oh, we overpaid you. So you're not going to be getting a check. And my lawyer goes, oh, we're going to sue. And I said, we're not going to sue.

Let it rock. We'll recoup. Eventually we'll recoup. And we did. It took like 10 years. Because I don't give a fuck. What was the basis of them saying they overpaid you? They said that the artist royalty that I got paid was congruent with what Nas was supposed to get paid. So I essentially got Nas royalties, but Nas didn't, it wasn't minused off Nas's share.

It basically paid like, it was like double dipping. So they paid me exactly what they were paying Nas. But it wasn't accurate either, because the fact of the matter is is Nas was at like X amount of points and I was at three. So that was the only correction we told them. And after they made that correction, they fixed it. We kept it moving. It was done. One and done.

But it took like 10 years for me to ever see another check. And again, I'm okay with that because to me the ability to earn isn't about one thing, right? I learned a long time ago it's not the strong who survives, it's the flexible. Right? So I would much rather fight Mike Tyson than a yogi.

Because a yogi is going to bend me up in fucking ways that I'm never going to get fixed again. At least with Mike, I know when it's coming. I see the punch coming. I know I'm going to get hurt. Would you say a yogi? I don't know what that is. Like a yoga person.

A yogi. A guy who can bend and... Oh, I get what you're saying. No, no, no. He fucking grabs you. If a yogi grabs you, bro, and he knows how to bend your body, yo, you might be fucked up for life.

At least if Mike hits you, you're going to be in pain. Let's be real clear. You're going to be in pain you, you're going to be in pain. Let's be real clear. You're going to be in pain, but you're going to be able to recover. But if a yogi bends you in a way, your body might never recover.

So I say I would much rather be flexible. I'd much rather be like water than be like a fucking wall. But did you receive slack because of that? Because a lot of people, like I said,

a lot of people took I said a lot of people took it as search owned a Nas publisher no in fact it was the exact opposite whenever that fucking verse came on

in the club I would get love like because my name got mentioned people didn't even realize what it meant they were like oh shit

not Jay mention search that's fucking crazy so you sure you never got nothing bad like even from like Nas camp or something? No, Nas and I get, it's all love all the time.

Okay, that's beautiful. You know, even, like, if you think about all the times Nas has mentioned me on his records, there's, like, seven records where he mentions, like, our friendship or how I did him right. Right. You know what I mean? Like, he's never once said anything bad about me

because he has no reason, because I treated him like a grown-ass. Because I treated him like a grown ass man. I treated him like a professional. And I treated his music like a business. So that he would never have to worry. And his daughter would never have to worry. His daughter and my daughter, same age. They were born a month apart.

His daughter and my daughter never have to worry. Goddamn, make some noise for that. So did you ever repair the beef with MC Hammer? Because you gave him the gas face. Yeah, no, no. I wouldn't listen to the gas face again. His might have been the harshest gas face he gave out.

Didn't you say somewhere that he put out a hit on you or something? Yeah. Elroy Cohen, who the hell is Elroy Cohen? That was Leo. So why was it Elroy? Oh, no, because we just wanted to make fun of Elroy Cohen. Go hammer first.

Let's go hammer first. No, but here's the thing. So I've been in recovery now, it'll be 10 years, right? So one of the things that I'm coming up to in nine years of recovery is making amends. Yeah. And, you know. years of recovery is amends. Making amends? Yeah. And, you know. You got to make amends to him.

Yeah. Can I say from the outside looking in? But. I want you to continue to make your amends. But I looked at it again today, and I know I just said this earlier, but I want to just reiterate. I think his might have been the most harsh gas face because you put his glasses and the hammer. Yeah. You had a hammer thing.

Then you had a guy walk through. Yeah, that was the two big MCs. That was his co-host. Okay, I'm sorry. But no, but the point is... Okay, what happened? Well, the point was that he dissed Run DMC. And for me, being a Queens kid,

and having Jam Master Jay, may he rest in peace, put me in a game, it was unforgivable. Like, it was unforgivable, but it was an MC thing. It wasn't a personal thing. You asked the crew, wouldn't we think about Hammer? But that's not why Hammer put the hit

out on us. He legit put out a hit? Hammer put the hit out on us. Okay, all right, let's take it then. He legit put out a hit? Yeah. He put the hit out on us because my old partner on the Cactus record, which was the song on the album, Hammer's record was Turn This Mother Out. Turn this mother out. Right, right. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

Right. I know all that hip-hop. Kind of like that. I know all that hip-hop. Kind of like that. Right. I know all that hip-hop. Go ahead. My old rhyming partner said that the Cactus, our album, the Cactus turned Hammer's mother out. Ooh.

Right? But that, and let's be real clear about two things. We're lyricists first. Right. and always. That was a dope fucking line, period. If I thought for one second, because I love my mother, if I thought for one second that someone would have misinterpreted that, I would have told that dude to take the line off the record.

I don't know, you was wrong. You know what I'm saying? The cactus turned your mother out? No, the cactus turned Hammer's mother out, but I didn't say it. Okay. But again, because I'm the one who's in the front, because I'm the one, I took the heat. Right. And because it was my- And that line was in response to the Run DMC diss you're saying he did?

Yes. Right. And also because his album was trash. Right? Like, we didn't like his album. We were from New York. But you brought his mother involved. Trash to you guys

because a lot of the country was fucking with it. And again, for us... In retrospect, looking at Hammer now, his career is a pretty incredible career. Yeah. The...

He bounced out. Yeah. Where we were was that there was New York and there was nothing else that once you left the tri-state we talk about this all the time I try to tell them

I try to tell them this that's why there's another animosity out there it's facts and when you're a kid from Queens from Far Rockwood who's never been on a plane before, who's never been outside the state before, to have somebody come from someplace else that you don't even know about and dis Run DMC. And for me personally, Jay heard me run.

See, we had a reason. They dis Run DMC. Y'all niggas used to dis Run DMC. Me? I'm sorry. Helping this guy out so much in our arguments and drink jokes. But let me finish.

And mind you, that's the Bay Area. It's no joke. Yeah, but you saying at that time, like New York, for lack of a better term, looked at everybody else. Like, if you're not from New York.

It's whack. That's the way the sentiment was put out there from New York. That's a fact. That's fact. Was it out at that time? N.W.A. was different. Okay. Because N.W.A. respected, you know, the beats that Dre had on that album were

Heavily influenced by third base in fact when Ice Cube and set it on this show when Ice Cube came to New York He came to work with our old producer from the cactus because that shit slapped right even MC8 from Compton's most wanted on their biggest, one time gaffled them up. On the second verse, he said, they got pulled over bumping the cactus. Wow. You know what I'm saying? So it was different.

And also their message. That first album went further than a lot of artists in New York. But their message was different. Right. Because we were about fuck the police. We were about the dope man. We were about that. We weren't about about the dope man. We were about that.

We weren't about Dre saying some drop science, we drop English. We weren't about that. But we were about everything else. And they respected the production. And Cube respected what we did. Right? So LA was different. And it's, again, it's iced tea.

It's different. It was just cut different. The hip-hop that Hammer was doing at the time was not indicative of what we thought was real hip-hop. Native Tongues, N.W.A., Queen Latifah, Eric B. and Rakim. You know, it wasn't, right? So if I would have thought... It was a flexion of like Vanilla Ice type of thing.

It was worse. He put on Vanilla Ice. It was worse. It was worse was a reflection of like Vanilla Ice type of thing. Yeah, it was worse. He put on Vanilla Ice. It was worse. It was worse than Vanilla Ice. MC Hammer put on Vanilla Ice. Yeah, Vanilla Ice went on tour with Hammer. Yeah, but I mean, no, Vanilla Ice was worse than Hammer. Because at least Hammer's black.

Right. Right. But Hammer, he came from an authentic place, Hammer. Whether you like it or not, that's subjective. Right. We're going to let Cersei answer this. No, no authentic place, Hammer. Whether you like it or not, that's subjective. What? We're going to let Sturge answer this. No, no, no. He's absolutely right.

But the point was, the music wasn't where we were. In our hearts and in our minds, it wasn't where we were. And it pissed me off that I would listen to New York radio and not hear De La and not hear Tribe, but I'd hear MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice. It's fucking crazy. That's why we made Pop Goes the Weasel. Right. Because it's fucking crazy.

Are you on Vanilla Ice you ever clashed in real life? I mean, no, I've never met the dude. But the point is... So white on white crime does not happen. It happens all the time. Every fucking mass shooting in this country is white on white crime.

No, white on white rap. Yeah, no. White on white rap. No. The Beastie Boys never clash. No, we did. We did. Let's get to it.

We had... Let's get to white on white crime. I'm so surprised you don't know this shit. It's not about me, no. You know what I mean? Come on, baby. You know what I mean?

No, so me and Mike D clashed early, early on before the Cactus album came out. I actually talked about this in the Beastie Boy book. We clashed because I went to Mike D's house

and I asked him about... Is it Lower East Side? Yeah, this was... I feel like it's... Yeah, this is on Barrow Street. Okay. When Russell moved on Barrow Street. Okay. So we went over to

I went over to Mike's house and I said, you know, I need some help. Russell's, you know, shelving our record. We damn near finished. You know, and they had already left to go to Capital. And he was giving me great advice. Like, he was like, yo, you got to do this,

you got to make sure this, this, and this. I was like, cool, thanks. They already started this after No Sleep 2 Brooklyn. This is already, okay. Five million. No, this is solidified.

Yeah, this is solidified. And as I'm leaving the crib, he starts throwing shit at me, like laughing, like sponge things and things. He's laughing. So I'm like...

He's physically throwing shit at you? Yeah, he's like, he's like throwing fucking, you know, coasters at me, right? Like, he's laughing, so I'm like. He's physically throwing shit at you? Yeah, he's like throwing fucking coasters at me, right? He's like, Leda, Leda, and I'm like, all right, you're a fucking dust head, right? Like, what the fuck is he doing, right? Like, whatever, right? But then Leda, like six months later,

Spin Magazine did a piece on Paul's Boutique, and we had already dropped stuff, and today I am in Gas Face was already a heat bubble. And they asked him, what do you think about Third Bass? And Mike D said in this article,

he said, yeah, search came to my house and he said some shit and I threw shit at him. And I'm like, oh, this motherfucker is about to fucking get it. So then we went back in

and we did Sons of Third Bass. That's the first cut on the Cactus album because we wanted to let it known. Like, yo, where the motherfuckers? Like, if you're going to like white people in hip hop Like some motherfuckers that are from the block Like really like some dudes that are really

For real, like fuck with Alcatraz For real, you know what I mean? Because that's what we called That's what we called Far Rockaway Because it was only one way on and one way off So the Impetus of that battle, that beef, was that.

And since then, we got cool. Like, I made peace with Yaak before he died. Like, I had him on my syndicated radio show. Like, me and Mike are cool. And, you know, I did their book. And, you know, it's all love. But at the time, we felt like we had to be like the knights.

Like we had to be the white knight of hip-hop. We had to save the culture, right? Because we felt like nobody's helping, you know, blah, blah, blah, get on the radio. You was like a black guy. You know what I'm saying? Where it's black. There had to be a white guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Black guys, little bad guys. Black must have been a white guy that started all that. Make the gaff face for those little white lies, right? Right, right, right. So when we did Pop Goes the Weasel, it was a simple philosophy for us. We're going to take a huge fucking pop record, fucking Sledgehammer,

and we're going to fucking diss pop radio, and we're going to diss everything they do. So if the record blows up and we go to pop radio we can go in there and be like yo why aren't you playing this why aren't you playing that why aren't you while we're here you're going to play this this this and this and this and this and this and this it didn't work we just became what we didn't want to be and for me my whole career was performing in front of black people. And within six months, I got white guys stage diving off my fucking stage.

Like I was like, the fuck is this? Like, I don't even understand none of this. Like, I don't understand what's going on. Like what, what kind of fucking bizarro world did I just walk into?

Right. Um, but for me, it's always been preserving black culture. And it's also been about representing, protecting artists. You know, it's always been preserving black culture, and it's also been about representing, protecting artists. It's always been that. I'm going to pivot here, but even with Timeless, with our podcast company,

we just did a whole series on Big Daddy Kane that's coming out. Kane owns all that content. I don't own it. I licensed it to him for 15 years. I paid him to do it. And we did it in immersive sound design. I spent almost a year negotiating

with Dolby Atmos to understand the schematics of how the ear pods work, how headphones work, so we could do 5.1 surround sound. So when you fuck with our podcast, you hear that shit. You hear fucking Kane in LG. You hear Kane on the block that shit. You hear fucking Kane in LG. You hear Kane on the block in Brooklyn.

You hear when they're doing the karate kicks, watching the fucking Kung Fu movies on 42nd. Like, I wanted his story, Kane's story, to be more than the oratory. Like, I wanted you to be and understand the environment that he came from. Oh. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad it's really really really bad listen to new episodes of absolute season one taser incorporated on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts binge episodes one two and three on may 21st and

episodes four five and six on june 4th episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so many stories out there. And

if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month.

And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes. I love funny.

I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. It's a new artist. When I say new, I mean new, new everything. What's a new artist? When I say new, I mean new, new, new, new, new artist.

Yeah. That you fuck with. Maybe not signed, but that you listen to and appreciate and enjoy. Right now, probably the biggest artist I fuck with is this kid out of Philly named O.T. DeRio. I fucking love this dude. He's a fucking monster. There's another kid out of Atlanta

that I fuck with heavy. 21-year-old kid named Surf. Put out three mixtapes called Bad Human, Badder Human, and Baddest Human. They put out a new EP called Sustaining Injury.

That kid is fucking hard body. I love that kid. This is lyrics? Lyrics, but also his understanding of who he is at 21 years old and his storytelling. I fuck with him heavy. You think lyricism

is that? No, definitely not. I fuck with, you know what, who I just listened to and I love is Rob Markman. I listened to Born to Write and I just listened to his new album. It's crazy. Rob is dope. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So there's like a lot of new artists that I fuck with. Let's crazy. Yeah, Rob is dope. You know what I'm saying? The mob boy, Rob. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So there's like a lot of new artists that I fuck with.

I'm not... Let's make some noise for Rob, Rob. You know what I'm saying? I'm a rapper turned journalist. He a journalist turned rapper. Yeah, and like, I'm not one of these dudes.

I'll never be one of these dudes that gets stuck in an era. You know, Nielsen just did a report that said 98% of men and women over 30 stop listening to new music. Only 2%. And after

30, you only go back to the artist that you love. Right? I'm not that dude. I'm just not that dude. You know, I love new... I'm 50-50. Well, no, because you're still immersed. But when you think about becoming 30, 31, 32, and you're not in the music business,

what does that become, right? It becomes responsibilities, it becomes jobs, it becomes family, it becomes children, it becomes debt. So you're not digging in the crates like you once did. You're not going to Dat Piff anymore. You're not going to SoundCloud. You're not going to band camp. You're taking your kids to fucking day camp.

You're not fucking with other shit. I heard you talk about Clubhouse earlier you on Clubhouse? yeah I got the largest fucking club in the fucking Clubhouse we have it's called the New Money Moguls and we have a meeting every Tuesday called Problem Solvers

it's with some of the greatest minds you've ever met Leontine who is the only woman to ever run Jordan Brand. Dante Simpson, who did East Bat TV, who did the Lil Nas X for Roblox and did Travis Scott. He did those two deals for Fortnite. He's on there. Mark Byers, former GM of Motown, who handles the Marvin Gaye estate, who handles all the consulting for Burner Boy. He's in there, Aria Wright, 20-year

veteran at Diageo, knows distribution backwards and forwards. So we have about 500 to 600 people every week, and we solve them, we problem solve. What I'm tired of in Clubhouse, and I see this all the time, people want to talk, but they don't

want to do shit. Everybody's an expert. But it's okay to be an expert. But be an expert at health. Like, I break down my life to this point like this. In my 20s, my 30s, my 40s, and now my 50s, all I do is learn.

I continue to learn. My 20s, all I did was learn. I didn't earn. I didn't do anything else. I learned. I just studied, learned, studied, learned. 30s, I learned, I earned, but I ch was learn. I didn't earn. I didn't do anything else. I learned. I just studied, learned, studied, learned. 30s, I learned, I earned, but I churned. If you was fucking whack,

if you were not benefiting my life, you were fucking out of here. You'd get the Christmas card and you'd get the Hanukkah card and you'd get the New Year's, but you're done. 40s, I was learn, churn, and earn. I made more money in my 40s

than I ever did in my whole life. But now in my 50s, I churn, I learn, I earn and I return. So problem solving is about you got a business, what's your business situation?

Oh, this is your business situation? Oh, well that person's right here. He's in this room. Give him back. Bring him up. Bring him up. Boom. So we do three things in problem solvers.

One is we connect you with people. Period. Oh, you got a clothing company? You need distribution? Here's my man. He got six fucking plants in China. Done. Oh, you need Amazon?

My man's an expert at Amazon. Done. Oh, you need radio promotion? My man does this. Done. So that's one. Two, we check you out, we evaluate, and then we point out what you're doing wrong.

Oh, you got a problem with social media? Fix that. You got a problem with this? Fix that. Or three, damn, I out what you're doing wrong. Oh, you got a problem with social media? Fix that. You got a problem with this? Fix that. Or three, damn, I like what you do. I like your move. I like the way you're moving. We're going to invest in you.

Come meet with us after the meeting. And then we have a meeting and our advisory board comes together and we give you paper. And we either become a partner with you, short term, midterm, or long term. And that's what we do on Clubhouse. Yeah.

Let me ask you something, sir. Something me at EFN started this podcast. One, we said we wanted to interview legends. We wanted to interview people such as yourself that have been in the game that, you know, sometimes, you know, this is a young man's game. So sometimes we get overlooked. That's one thing but not only that we wanted to show

love and admire to the people that came before us with this hip hop union we really want to form a real hip hop union where a person has 10 years or more put this game in

and maybe he didn't, you know, make it Jay-Z status. He didn't make it to a... Like a SAG. Like SAG. Yeah, but SAG won't come. But I feel that's the easiest... You want to base it?

Yes. Can I ask you a couple of questions if you don't mind? Yeah, no problem. What's the purpose? In one sentence, what's the purpose? The purpose is we should

take care of our own. Because I feel like hip hop, like you know one thing about you, when I look at you in all honesty and respect, I see you, before I see you as a white person,

I look at you as a hip hop person. And to me, hip hop is a race in itself fact if I would have to pick first I'll say I'm hip-hop first and then I'm black and Puerto Rican but hip-hop because it's just and I feel like there's a lot of people that's like me that identify that now if you came in this game and it's just like if you look at these old documentaries, you look at this, that's why I was so glad you cleared up the publishing. But you look at, it was

this image of these people taking advantage of these kids and just eating off of them for the rest of their life. And them never being able, like, I just seen I think O.J. the Juice Man say that he has to die ten years before he could even, his kids could even,

he has to be dead 10 years before his kids could even think about owning the rights to his first album. So the short term is creating an opportunity for artists, both young and new, to establish some sort of funding where they are protected short, mid-term, and long-term. So the process, if I'm hearing you correctly,

for the sake of clarity. No, but I think you need to let me finish because the thing about it is this. So we might have two different visions. I want to tell you

my... No, no, no, no. The thing about it is this, is you being from Far Rock. Far Rock, for people that know,

is probably one of the hardest... Oh, and shout out to another kid, Bobby J. from Rockaway. That Rock, for people that know, is probably one of the hardest. Oh, and shout out to another kid, Bobby J from Rockaway. That kid is a fucking monster. Okay, yeah, no problem. One of the hardest places in Queens. But the thing about that is,

most people that will make it from Far Rock, most people that will get this opportunity, they're seeing a number in their face, and they're not thinking about calling a lawyer. They're not thinking about calling a manager. They're thinking about, like what you said,

get them out of the projects. Like you said, no, I said that wrong. What I lovingly refer to as homeboy management. Right, and you know, you got from, you know, Queensbridge to 40 Projects to all these different places that these people have these talents, and when they make it to a certain level, it's people who does take advantage, right?

But look, let's remember why we started the conversation. We started because there was pioneers getting sick without having health insurance. Right. That's how we started the conversation. So what I was saying, like a SAG that gives access to insurance, to health insurance, maybe starts to create some kind of retirement fund. But I say SAG because SAG is as much as you put into it is what you kind of get out of it.

Because not everybody's going to be, you know. So is what Rocky Bucano is doing at Hip Hop Museum with putting the top floor for Kool Herc, Coco La Rock, giving them permanent housing. That's the one in the Bronx. In the Bronx. I'm an ambassador for that. So what Rocky's doing is similar. He's creating lower income housing for people there permanently,

right? So it's that. He's also creating housing for Theodore, for Coco La Rock, so they never have to pay rent ever again for him and his families, right? That's fine. We need to hear more about this. But then we need to fucking have Rocky on here. But the point is, didn't Wendy Day do that with

the Rap Coalition? Didn't she do that in trying to take care of cash money? Yeah, but we want to take care of the whole culture. But what happened? What happened to Wendy. But what happened? What happened to Wendy Day? What happened?

She definitely got sidelined. Right. Not only did she get sidelined, she got silenced. And then the people that were supposed to take care of her didn't take care of her. Right? So a union only works if the people that are buying into the union continue to support the union. Right. So the reason why SAG-AFTRA works is, yeah, you can be in the union, cost you 100 grand.

It's counting for the masses to be. Yeah, but that's like back in the days, the unions and the cement industry, they worked, but there's a couple of my people that I know that's from a certain area that came and they made these unions work, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? And here's the other part of it, and I don't like to say,

but the other part of it that is the vital part of it, right, is that if you take an artist like Jay-Z and he said, I'm charging motherfuckers for what they did to the cold crush, right? Right. That line is only as powerful as what he actually gives back to the cold crush, right? Right. That line is only as powerful

as what he actually gives back to the cold crush, right? So we were talking about cold crush. We were talking about, right? So on my podcast, the end of episode one with Kane, Kane talks about the most influential MC in his life. You're going to bug out because we've been talking about this. His grandmaster, Kaz, right? So in the end of episode one of the podcast,

he starts to recite Kaz lyrics from a park jam that he heard on a fourth generation cassette tape like it was written yesterday. So we interviewed Kaz. And I said, Kaz, do you remember these lyrics? And he was like, shit. That's what I call classics. And he starts rhyming them.

And I leaned back and I said, fuck. What if something happens to Kaz? Then those lyrics disappear. We got to make a record. We got to make a record now and it's got to end the first episode. So we did. Right? And we gave it to him. Publishing, royalties,

everything. Gave it to him. 100% his. So that's the NFT. What the fuck he just said. And so May 9th, NFT auction for that record. That's the union. That's the union. It doesn't have to be organized.

It has to be curated and executed. And it doesn't need to be 10 people in a room to argue about what you want and you want. It's just fucking do it. Fucking do it. Problem solver. That's why I did problem solver. It's just fucking do it. Fucking do it. Problem solver. That's why I did problem solver.

You and I can sit here. He can smoke weed all day. You can drink all day. We can fucking philosophize all day. Do it. The action. Do it. Right?

So here's my small contribution to that. Right? It's one thing. But it's the first record Kaz ever owned. 100% of. For life. I don't own it. I gave it to him. And the record fucking is a bop. What?

That shit ain't some corny fucking... No, that shit is fucking a fucking smash. What? Play it. You got a glider? Turn that shit up. Turn that shit up. Turn that shit off. Turn that shit off.

Turn that shit off. We're talking to cats to come on Dream Champ soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to hook that up immediately. So to me, that's the answer. You know,

I think we do a lot of philosophizing in hip hop, right? We grew up with the idea of how do we create something that is ideas into curation, right? Got a great director, Gil Green, here, right? He takes ideas, right?

His family right here. You know, Gil will take words and create amazing images on screens, right? And I love you, brother. But he can't do what he does if he sits for six months on a fucking idea because then they're going to move forward. It's curation, execution, direction, done. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

Right? Right. So do it. Don't worry. Don't think about it. Do it. Right. How do you execute?

How do you curate? How do you do it? Just do it. You just do it. So you're saying for each individual to do their part as best as they can.

Because obviously what we're talking about, Why can't we have a SAG? Why can't we have a union? Why? Because hip-hop can't have something that big? Can't have something that organized? No, they can Are we really boxing? Because boxing is that real? We don't have the resources or

Boxing is that real? Of course you don't That's bullshit No, that's bullshit To an extent Do you know when SAG started? No, tell me. 1905.

You know who the first person in SAG was? Charlie Chaplin. One of one. Yo, it starts with one. You don't need ten. You need one. All right, so Nori, you're one. I'm in.

Let's go. I'm two. And then there's three. Let's go. Take three percent of everything. You know what I'm saying? But you... Everybody has to be in SAG here.

In our SAG. In the Drink Champ SAG. That to me is the essence of what hip-hop truly is, right? When you think of the tenets of hip-hop, right? It's not about drip. It's not about jewelry. It's not about that. It's peace, unity, love, and having fun.

When the culture started, right? Not right now, Serge. I'm going to be honest. I don't know if you got YouTube. It's not, unity, love, and having fun. When the culture started, right? Not right now, Serge. I'm going to be honest. I don't know if you got YouTube. It's not about that no more. But that's not hip-hop. Let me just bring you. Just because it's not about that right now doesn't mean it's not great.

Also part of hip-hop. Let's not act like hip-hop ain't never had violence and ignorance. No, no, no. It's always been ignorance. You're missing a point. Okay, my bad. No, it's okay, God. It's this.

It's, yes, the park jams were violent. Yes, there was a lot of challenges. Yes, there was all of that. However, what we're seeing today is rap music and artists and social media. That is separate. And if you just automatically lob it in and say, oh, that's hip-hop, then you're not really focusing on the true tenets of what brought us all to this table. That's not culture.

And that's the key of it. It's culture. That is not culture. That is a reaction and a part of who they are and where they live and what they experience and who they were around. And I one-man-ship agree with you, but the thing about it is, the same

way somebody in Far Rockaway, Queens, and what's the Edgeman, what is it, Edgeco? Edgeman Project. Edgeman Project. Padme, Red Fern. Shout out to Red Fern Project. Red Fern can film. It's the same person a kid in Fort Granger filmed.

But it's the same place a person in Tacoma, Washington, Seattle, Washington can film the same thing. Have a couple of people around them that can actually blow up from their own house. Okay. There's no OGs involved with this. There's nobody helping this kid out.

And this kid continue to make it. He's no way, shape, form, or fashion listening to us. And that's eventually... I don't agree to that. No, no, no. I agree with him to an extent. I don't agree to that. I agree with him to an extent. I don't agree with that.

What part did you don't agree? I just feel the disconnect happened. There was a disconnect that OGs stopped being OGs. I've said this plenty of times. Of course they're not going to look up to OGs anymore because what's there to look up to? Right. But if a kid... This is what I'm trying to say. I think you misunderstood Because what's there to look up to Right but if a kid

I think you misunderstood my point What I'm saying is right now We used to have to go to a wild pitch We used to go to a That's industry That's gatekeepers that's different stuff And they still have to do that If they want to get a big bad

They want to do that And here's the bottom line There's kids on SoundCloud that don't got no A&R and there's a record label that's out there that's willing to pay him and say fuck it

we'll give you everything just keep doing the fuck you're doing because record labels don't know what the fuck they're doing back then it was artist curation

it was artist development you actually tried to, at least. Right now, they're like, these guys are just out there doing whatever. If whatever's working, let's just do it because their numbers, it's all, they keep calling it algorithms. Right, but that's industry versus,

we're talking either culture or industry or we're just marrying the job. Let me ask you this because we talked about the White Rapper Show before. Yeah, I like the White Rapper Show. But when you did White Rapper Show. Yeah, I like the White Rapper Show. But when you did the White Rapper Show and the white rappers came, you sat down, you had one drink and you bounced. Why? No, I thought this was punk.

I thought y'all got me. That's exactly right. I thought y'all got me. So you didn't? So you didn't? Because we just did a white rapper reunion on my podcast, right? Oh, that's true. And they all asked me the same thing.

They said, damn, did y'all hate us? Right. And we're like, no, we didn't hate you. We appreciated where you were from. But when Nori was on the top of his building, he thought he was being fucking pumped. He sat down and bounced out. Like, he didn't have an opinion about who you are or what you are.

He could give two shits. He walked in, he thought there was some candy camera shit going on, and he mashed out. That is not him personally. He don't personally feel bad, right? You don't feel personally bad? And now you look, and now we,

and now you look back at the show. I love the show. Right, you love the show because you see the whole thing. At first, I was, I think it was Sasha, I think it was you, I think it was a couple of y'all

just go, yo, come hang out. You know, we had this White Rabbit show, whatever. When I came in, and it was just a couple of y'all. I was just like, yo, come hang out. You know, we had this white rapper show, whatever. When I came in, and it was just a couple of corny moments where I looked. I was like, this might be how Ashton Kutcher set people up. They got searching them corny. So I'm thinking like this. And I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to just bounce. But when I look back at the whole episode and the whole season in its entirety, I wish y'all would have told me Like yo no no So I wasn't there So here's the thing What I loved about Norrie's episode was So I wasn't allowed to be anywhere near them

Do you know why? Because it would have been just about me and him For about three hours right? But they wanted the engagement It was the same thing with Joel Santana When they went to meet Joel And John Brown gave him the fucking bird card Like he made a fake card

and handed him this fucking cardboard card. Jules did the same thing. He sat down, ate his food, fucking looked at his watch and mashed. There was no,

you know, because we wanted original, we wanted to see what was going to happen. Organic. And he's organic. And now that you look back, right,

and you see Nori's reaction, because Nori literally went, all right, we have to do this. It's funny. I'm so sorry. I mean, Now that you look back right and you see nor use reaction because nori literally And the best part about that was it was nori being nori And I'm so glad I'm here with you because I really have to share this with you. When I took you on the road on promo, every single radio station said the same thing after you left the studio. Is he interested in doing radio?

Does he want to host a radio show? Every single one. He's pulling my car right now. Every single one. Because he was amazing on radio. I have never I don't like to use finite words. You'll see that I'm working

on my wordplay. I don't like to use finite words, but I can use it in front of him. I've never had an artist go on the road where program directors, OMs, GMs were listening and then came back and said is he interested in his career in radio?

And he liked it. Hot 97, the morning show. Yes, I know. Yes. And it's why this transition to this and why you

and this. I know. You saw the vision. I remember when you called me and told me, yo, and I didn't, yo,

I'll keep it a buck. I didn't know what the fuck you were talking about. I didn't know what you were talking about. But you said, yo, I'm like, what the fuck is a podcast? Who the fuck cares about this shit? You're a fucking genius. You're a fucking, and I have my company and my wife and I, because it's not me. There's no more searchlight.

The name of the company is 4MC. It's the name of my wife and my wife and I. Because it's not me. There's no more searchlight. The name of the company is 4MC. It's the name of my wife and my children. Because it's about this, right? And it's about what you guys built for me. So what I did in the streets of Far Rockaway, you did here for me. You returned your energy to give me an opportunity. Yeah.

Let me say one thing, right? Because I do use Google now. At first we started this, I didn't use Google. But when I Googled you, it was so enlightening and so fun because the first two words of your name is MC. Always. I'll never drop that.

So when you hit Google and then you type in MC, there's only a couple of other people who pop up. Do you know who those people are? Probably MC Hammer. No? Yes. Okay. MC Hammer.

Okay. Who's the other person who would probably... MC Light? No, probably not Light. Light didn't come up for me. No, MC, I would probably say, you know what, the name that pops in my head, and it's not that, it's probably MC Ren,

but it's probably not Ren. It was MC Shen. MC Shen. I don't know, because you know, Google is a tool towards the person who you are. But you know what, one of the things, it's bias, it's definitely bias. That's the word I was looking for.

But let me tell you something. And I want to talk about this for a second. Because Queensbridge deserves all its flowers. God damn it. All its flowers. But in the podcast we did with Kane, we started to talk because we interviewed all the people that he came up with. That were, you know, obviously still with us. Right.

And we started to talk about Lafayette Gardens in Brooklyn. LG. LG. Here's the list of producers and artists that came out of LG. Easy Mo B. Witch Doctor, who did Ramen is Fundamental, who did Biggie, alright?

Mr. C. AB Money from Rappin' is Fundamental. It can be argued, and obviously Kane spent a lot of time there, but It can be argued, and then obviously Kane spent a lot of time there, but it can be argued. It's not right or wrong, but it can be argued

that LG is probably just as dope as Queensbridge. Wow. I never looked at it like that. Now, I'm not saying it's factual because there's also a point of it where after 88, 90, 91, 92, you had the surgence of Queensbridge with Nas.

Like a generation. Right. With Hot Day, with Hot Day, with Bob Deep and so on and so forth. But you look at LG. And Molly Marlison. I forget Molly Marlison. No, no, no. But the thing about Molly is Molly technically didn't live in Queensbridge, which I found out.

He had a house near Queensbridge. He moved to Queensbridge to produce. But paid in full. He did admit on it. Yes. He moved to Queens Bridge to produce. But pay the fall. He did admit on it. Yes. He did that actual Queens Bridge project. So it's interesting to me because even with me being a

Forrest Gump of hip-hop, I didn't connect that. Cool V is from LG. Wow. You know what I'm saying? So you're talking about Cool V. Yeah, DJ Cool V. Better known to y'all as Kamesa, Von Lee, or you know what I'm saying? Like, so, you know, right.

So, it could be argued, and that's the fun that I'm having with my podcast, is that I'm now looking at it, oh shit, I should do a whole podcast on LG. Let me just let you know, you are the guy who's affiliated to Queensways, but you're not gonna win this argument on this podcast. No.

Yo, first of all. Yo. Queens, we twist the argument. And I'm from the front. Brother, I'm from Far Rockaway. Of course this shit ain't never going to fucking win. How fucking proud was you to see that Nas won a Grammy recently? Like, I'm out chilling.

You know, I've never watched the Grammys. They never invited me. What the fuck I want to do? Like, I'm a hater. Like, I'm never watched the Grammys. They never invited me. What the fuck I want to do? Like, I'm a hater. Like, I'm a hater when it comes to shit like that. You don't invite me. I think your shit is whack. If you don't invite me, I don't give a fuck.

That's just who I am. But, so, I've never got invited to the Grammy. Even my hottest. Like, I think they invited me and took it back. I was like, I'm not sure. So, I never had that dream, right? But I've never made, I've made that level, but not, I felt like, and then recently, we're just sitting there. I'm like, are you going to watch the Grammys?

They're like, no. But I wake up the next day, and they're like, yo, he won. I'm at a restaurant. We're in Billy's. We order all the crab legs. I drink all the champagne. Give me all the champagne I got. And I do a blog and everybody.

And it was like, because I'm not from Queensbridge. I'm from Lefrak City. But I got a lot of love for Queensbridge. Lefrak or Iraq? Well, yeah, you know, the same thing. But I got a lot of love. And I just wanted to show them that love. I didn't want to interpretate and say,

we're bringing this Grammy back to left-rack in Queensbridge, because that's not what Nas is. Nas is Queensbridge. So I did it in a bigger-than-zoe's place, a bigger-than-my-boy-left's place. And, I mean, I could see all of them reposting and just being happy and rejoicing. And it just made me feel so proud,

because that's what we is. Like, like sometimes we're so territorial that will be like you know up on left rack but I'm just from section one I'm from Queens Bridge but I'm just from Vernon Boulevard I'm from far rock but I'm just from you know refer yeah you know 40 project I'm from South Jamaica, but I'm just from Baisley. I feel like this is the moment where all of us queens rejoice. How good did you feel from being in the beginning? The trifecta for me, it's

threefold for me coming here. One is to be here with you. Two is understanding that Nas not only won a Grammy, but got into the Library of Congress. Right, yep. Double Wontandra. But three is making the left

on this block and seeing MF Dume on the corner. Wow. Because, you know, I know Zevlovex since he was 14 years old. KFD, MF Dume. Yeah, yeah, well, I'm Googling MF Dume right up there. I don't know MF Doom.

I know Zev Lovex. I know Daniel Dumoulin. I know Sub Rock, may he rest in peace. I know the family, you know what I mean? Like, those are my people, you know? That's just not, it's not just some artist. God bless you for changing the subject. Yeah, no, no.

I'm staying on the subject. Yeah. But when MF Doom, they pronounced him dead and it was on Halloween, wasn't like, a lot of people in hip hop at first was like, is this a, because listen, I remember one time, people were saying MF Doom was in six places at one time.

As if there was other people that was doing that. Yeah, other people were performing wearing the mask. Can you speak on? Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know Doom. I know Zevlovex. Wow. Because, you know, when I was putting out

my little independent records before Third Base, I was hanging out in Long Beach, Long Island, which was, you know, Hop, Skip, and the Jump from Far Rockaway. I met my homeboy Ahmed. I met Otis. And then I met Doom and Heme, and I told them, I said, yo, when I get on, you get on.

Period. End of conversation. He always wanted to wear the mask? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. He put on the mask after his brother died. Yeah. After his brother died, it was one of those moments

where I don't think- We're gonna finish this Grammy, make sure we go back to the Grammy and nines and all that. But yeah, but- The way you jumped in, I'm sorry. No, no, no, but I'm gonna come back to the Grammy and Nas and all that. But yeah, but... The way you jumped in. No, no, but I'm going to come back to the Grammys and I'll explain why. So, you know, so seeing Doom at the funeral

and him mashing out. And then this year, Nas winning the Grammy. Watching... Watching the Grammys for the first time seeing Doom on the screen. Wow. But then the credits roll and executive producer Fatima Robinson.

And Fatima and I used to dance together with Stretch and Shake as the IOU dancers in the LQ. Wow. So I'm, and my man Jeff Robinson

wins for her. And that's my dude. Like, that's my, like, I go back to when Alicia performed for my, my not-for-profit Rock and Wrap It Up

at the World Trades Tower a year before it went down. Wow. You know what I mean? So I'm seeing all this and I'm crying my eyes out. Happy, sad, you know,

a million emotions going through me because it's that, it's that moment. It's Nas, it's Doom, it's Fatima, it's Jeff, it's all of our people finally being where they're supposed to be, getting what they're supposed to get. You know, like, I don't know, you know, if they were going to show Doom. Right. And they did. You know, when Doom died, not only on, but when they made the announcement

on New Year's Eve, the one thing that amazed me was not only the amount of rappers that showed love, but it was... You knew he died prior to them announcing that? No, no, no, no. Okay, all right. The family kept it secret.

They kept it secret. And I think they did the right thing because they put his affairs in order. Doom knew... The one thing I know is that Doom knew he was going to die six months before. Like, they knew he was going to die. So they put his affairs in order.

And... To see, like, Tom York from Radiohead, give him his flowers. Beth Gibbons from Portishead, give him his flowers. Johnny Marr from The Smiths, give him his flowers. Darius Rucker from Hootie and the Blowfish, give him his flowers. Like, yo, it was fucking crazy. Along with all the other MCs. And murals around the world being made.

Murals around the world being made. Murals around the world. I got pictures from France, London, trains. The fucking government of France, Japan, that doesn't allow murals to run on trains. Let the doom murals run. Amsterdam. You know what I'm saying? The impact that he made man Was fucking crazy

And you don't expect that And you know Talking about amends And talking about Being in recovery Because that's one of the things That we're also doing In our podcast company

Is me and my homegirl Kyle Eustace From Hip Hop DX We have a podcast Called Breaking the Anonymity Which is about The road to redemption And recovery

Right Because I think There's a stigma. People think like, oh, you can't have fun. You can't be around people smoking weed when you're an addict. You can't be around this. No, it's about breaking that down and understanding like you can go to a program and get help because there's people that can help you.

You know what I mean? And so we have like amazing artists, Danny Boy from House of Pain, Frank Gallagher from The Talking Heads. Like we have these amazing slain talking about their road to recovery. And one of the things that I've talked about in my amends is there's called direct amends and indirect amends. Right. There's a homeboy of mine here I got to make amends with before I leave. Right. So so there's direct amends, but then there's indirect. And I always thought,

man, I can make amends with Subra. I can make amends with Doom. So now I got to make indirect amends. So the things that I take responsibility for, for the distance in our relationship, now I got to fix with the next man or the next woman.

Somebody else, right? Because that's my responsibility. That's my responsibility before they put me in the dirt. So the Grammys and the beautiful part about the Grammys, you know, again, and going back to it, is that it seemed to me for the first time

in hip-hop history that the album of the year was balanced. Alchemist and Freddie Gibbs. Like, that fucking album is crazy. Alchemist is a monster. He deserved that. Oh, yeah. And you talk about Griselda.

You talk about Benny. You talk about West Side Gun. You talk about Bodie James. Like, motherfuckers are monsters. They're getting fucking Grammy nominations. Like, yo. Their movement is crazy. It's balanced.

You know, we got this balance. We got this, finally, we got a little bit of equilibrium. You know, it makes me want to vote. I'm a voter. I don't vote. I'm like, Nori, fuck you. You ain't going to do shit for me. Grammy voter for anybody. You know, but this is another election right now.

But you know, but that's, you know, it's what it is. And I feel like there's balance, you know, it's what it is. And I feel like there's balance, finally. Because it's people like us who are in this range, who have the experience, who now can say to the Grammys and NARAS, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up, hold up, hold up. Blank, let's look at this.

And how we look at it is we vote on it. Right. That's beautiful. that's beautiful that's beautiful um wait we didn't you still didn't finish telling us about mc hammer's hit on you okay yeah that's for the book i'm not going to talk about that no and it didn't work no it definitely didn't work but it goes back also to amends like you know so i didn't work. No, it definitely didn't work. But it goes back also to amends. Like, you know, so I didn't even say the line. But, yeah, I mean, I'm going to eventually have to make amends with the man, right? Even though he put a hit out on me, right? Like, I have to make amends.

And where I come from, and I'm not being braggadocious when I say this, because even though I grew up in a very traditional Jewish household, I didn't grow up in that household. I grew up in Redfern Project. I grew up in Hamels. I grew up in Redfern Project. I grew up in Hamill. I grew up on the street. Where we come from, somebody puts a hit out on you, you wipe out their family.

You don't wipe out the dude. You wipe out his mom, his sister, his brother, his cousin, his uncle. You leave no bloodline. Because the other dudes that I grew up with on the other side of the street, in Inwood and in Rosdale, Colombo crime family, Gambino crime family. And that's how they moved, right?

But that's not who I am today. And I felt that way for a long time. It ate me a long time. Like, I got to see this dude. Eventually, I'm going to see this dude. I was in a room with him recently on Clubhouse. And somebody said to me, yo, this is the perfect time. And I'm like, no, it's not.

With who? I'm sorry? With Hammer. With Hammer. Yeah. Okay. But I was like, it's not the right time. Like, this is not the right time.

The time to do it is when we can sit down, he and I, and I can tell him what my responsibility is, what my role is, right? Even though I didn't say it along, even though the other dude in my group never never ever talked about it he just kind of kept it moving right so i'm the one because you know i'm the guy that in hip-hop people see as the front man even though it was a group it was all three of us right right you know i mean so that's my. So I'll make that amend when I'm ready, because the part of it that that seventh and eighth step is when you're willing.

I'm not I'm almost there. I'm not completely willing to forget that because it was fucking crazy. It was serious. It was real serious. Right. You know, it wasn't any fucking game. It was fucking serious. But I know that that's my responsibility. When we talked about it on the Breaking Anonymity podcast, we talked about the responsibility. Love your plugs. Love your plugs. They're seamless. They're seamless plugs.

But it's also what it is. But it's also what it is because that's what we talked about. It's not a plug just for the sake of doing this. No, no, no. That's real. So now as we talk about it, because, you know, this is, you know, Drink Chats, we love cocaine stories here, right? We just love it, right?

He's like, when you did cocaine? He did. You know, now you're sober, but when you did cocaine... I walked into Leo Cohen's office one day. Leo's one of my favorite executives. I don't know if Leo did anybody else wrong, but... He disappeared. Yeah, he got in the gas station. No, no, no. We just called him Elroy Cohen. I mean, we were just fucking with him. Listen did anybody else wrong. He got the gas station. We just called him L. Roy

Cohen. We were just fucking with him. Listen, I love Lio. Please. I walk in Lio Cole's office one day and he's sitting there and he has a picture on his wall. On his nose?

On his nose, like a tissue. The picture or him? The picture has a tissue in his nose. So I'm looking, and I'm like, that was a great night. I'm like, yo, is this the time you want to roll with DMC? And he's like, no. I was sniffing cocaine, so my shit just blossomed. And I was like, oh my God.

I love this stuff. I was not a cocaine dude. Okay. It wasn't the fact that I smoked it. It was how I behaved after I smoked it. And it was the fact that what I did as a man. It was definitely smoking dust. I'm just throwing it out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're mixing it with dust.

That's a whole different time. That was one time. That was a journey in a different time. It was one time. It was one time. It was gone. I'll be honest. No, no. and the thing was

He blamed it on the butt Fuck you I didn't blame shit on the butt And I damn sure didn't blame it on the fucking dust I was happy as fuck I was happy as fuck I fucking served some dude so bad he tried to kill me With a fucking 25 at a park jam Oh man okay

So hold up So it wasn't it wasn't that it was a combination of a lot of things that made me realize that my addiction. Never once? You never? Yeah, no. Once. I did it once. Let's talk about that once.

No, no. You don't want to. It's a fucking terrible story. He wants you to say you slipped coke down his ass. No, because it's boring. It's a fucking terrible story. He wants you to say you slipped. No, it's not terrible. No, because it's boring. It's going to make the editing fall. Yo, I fucking snorted a line.

It tasted terrible in the back of my throat. I was done. That's it. Wow. I didn't think that. Yeah, no. That was the end of the story? That's it.

That's what I'm saying. It's fucking terrible. Holy shit. But with Bud, with my with my drug of choice when I got to a place where I realized it was a problem it wasn't that

it was the weed itself it was the behavior that I was masking right so what I learned in recovery it was that

after I got rid of my DOC is I had to start looking at who I was and started to peel back the unden of my authentic self is I had to start looking at who I was and started to peel back the undone of my authentic self. So I started to like look at my character defects. I started looking at the

things that made me a fucked up individual. I started to have to look at the things like because yo, I would smoke and then I was fucking a zombie. Like I was a zombie to my children. I was a zombie to my wife. I was a zombie in life. I was a bad businessman. I was a bad partner.

All from weed. All from weed. Because what it did was, it didn't allow me, the weed didn't allow me to deal with my personal issues. Right. It didn't allow me. It was a crutch. It was totally a crutch. It was totally a bad time. I'm going to be honest. What years

we talking about, they had cocaine in your shit. I'm just throwing it out there. You probably didn't know. You probably didn't know. I'm just being honest. They laced your shit. I expected it. I thought everything was safe.

You look okay. I stopped using, I stopped using my clean. This is not called using marijuana. My clean day. I got this from a doctor. My clean day. A doctor? Yes, I mean. Dude, alcohol is legal.

Alcohol is legal. And you don't think it's worse than weed, bro. Dude, alcohol is legal. Alcohol is legal. And you don't think it's worse than weed, bro. So, yeah. And let's be really clear. And I want to explain something for the sake of this. Absolutely.

I'm not saying that marijuana is bad. Right. If you can smoke it casually, that's great. I think you should smoke and fucking stay smoking. I think it says in the scriptures,

the Most High gave us all of these plants on the planet Earth for you to use. I'm saying that the word is not in there, is he didn't give us all these plants for you to abuse. And I abused them because I... You took a mess tab or something. You took a mess tab. Come on, let's just keep it real.

None of that. No, no, and I'm not trying to bring down the room. You're taking ownership of what your experience was. It can't be just weed. It was. You never seen half-baked? Of course I saw half-baked, brother. You never seen half-baked.

But for me, you ain't in here. But for me, brother. But for me, brother, weed in here. Yeah, of course. He smoked weed in the crack pipe. Let's leave him alone, bro. I get that. Let the search get away with this.

But you know what? In those times, they was lacing y'all shit. In those times? In those times, yeah. I'm not talking. You're going back to 85. I'm talking about

I was smoking in 2010. I'm talking about I was smoking in 2011. Yo, dude, I had that good, good. Everywhere I went, I had good, good. You're talking about, like,

I think you said something about somebody who never bought weed. I never bought weed in my life. I never bought weed. I never bought weed in my life. I had homeboys bring me weed all the time. But what I was dealing with in my personal life, my professional life, I had to get high because I couldn't deal with the pain that I was dealing with. I didn't want to look at it. I didn't want to examine it. I didn't want to fuck with it.

So when I got into the program, I started to break shit down. And the first four years, I was still a piece of shit. N.A.? N.A., yeah. You know, Scott Storch and Steve LaBelle has a program where they got the same shit to get you off of cocaine.

What the fuck? But put you on marijuana. THC. Yeah, put you on THC. It's called NA, not weed. No, no, that's serious. I'm not lying. Fellas, fellas, you're missing the point.

It's for him. Yes. What it is for him. I'm telling you, you would lace, man. I'm not going to get hooked on and that's his issue he was not he was not doing no crazy shit on marijuana i wouldn't hear the crazy shit you did on marijuana it's not about the crazy shit i did on marijuana you're not hearing what i'm saying i'm definitely not i'm so sorry it's okay marijuana's let him hear shit

no and that's okay because look i'm not and I think the thing is what you're hearing is, I'm not telling you that marijuana's bad. Marijuana's great. I'm picturing this Robert Downey Jr. And this is, I've never seen. Well, that's a terrible reference, man. That's not a terrible reference. It's actually a, well, you know,

Robert Downey Jr. did some fucked up shit on cocaine. He did a lot of fucked up shit. Cocaine. I've never heard Serge doing fucked up shit. I just never heard of it. I've never heard of it, bro. We searched you. You're not in the bad people section.

No, but it's not because it wasn't about what I did in the streets. It's what it did to me. And I was faced with a choice. And when I first looked at it, I thought like you. I'm like, oh, motherfuckers are crazy. This is all bullshit. I remember the first time I ever went to a meeting.

The first meeting I ever went to, there was a dude sitting across from me. Looked like a fucking racist. I'm from Queens. He's a fucking big white dude. He's in a cut. Got a big ass beard named Rich. Big Rich.

Definitely a truck driver. Dude, and the first thing I'm in my fucking, in this meeting saying is like, yo, this dude's going to open up his mouth and I'm going to punch him in his fucking mouth. I got my little jig on me. I'm going to fuck. I'm just waiting. But he's the nicest guy in the world. No, worst, worst.

He opened up his mouth and he told my story. He shared his experience, strength, and hope. And it was my fucking story and a dude and a human being that I would have no connection within the street. He don't listen to what I listen to. He don't move how I move. He don't like what I like. But his experience was my experience. And it broke me. I fucking cried like a baby for 45 minutes in that meeting. I couldn't even speak. And I realized,

yo, I got a fucking problem. But the problem ain't that. I'm the problem. But it took me four years of not doing that to get to the point where okay i gotta fucking look at myself real quick i gotta look at myself and i gotta really really look at what like my wife sees my children see you know how hard it is to make a men see a kid to sit in front of him say this is why i was a fucking horrible father and have your children tell you,

yeah, you're a fucked up person. And it's not about forgiveness. And that's the other thing people don't realize. It's not about you saying, I forgive you. I've made amends to people that people said, okay, you're still a piece of shit, fuck you. And I said, thank you. Thank you for hearing me.

Thank you for understanding. Thank you for allowing me to tell you my role. And that's it. And I keep it moving. So it's not about that. It's not about that. It's not about that. I see that he's bounding down

when the dude came to him and he said, you know, I want to apologize to you for fucking your sister. Come on, man. No, this is the real shit. No, no, no.

He goes, what? Fucking my sister? Oh, shit, maybe I fucked your wife, too. The guy didn't forgive her. Trust me, my men were not serious. I mean, would you forgive her? I mean, I'm not going to point it on you.

Would you forgive a candle? So for me, and again, I mean, I'm on the border. You would get a candle if he said. So for me, so again, so for me and again, for me, it was really a very simple process. As a cannabis avocultural advocate. I'm going to take a piss on you, by the way. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me finish this. Go, go, go, go. I figure.

Yes, sir. You need to get back into cannabis. No, not going to happen. Get back into it. You need to get back into cannabis some not gonna happen get back into it you need to get back in the can it's not gonna happen some way never no it's very safe no i'll tell you the only way i'll get back into cannabis is is me and my partners own a spot exactly you don't see what that's what i'm saying but you don't ever get high on your own supply brother you don't get high on

your own supply brother you don't you can't cbd you've never had a CBD massage? No, because again, another... It's all about understanding that one is too many and a thousand is never enough. Okay, CBD doesn't get you high. I've had a CBD massage. So the argument...

And I've had this argument. It don't get you high, but it gets you down. But the argument is... It's like... I'll give you a perfect example. Moscato. I've heard this argument all the time.

Moscato is only like less than 1% alcohol. It's a sparkling drink, right? Just do the joke on Moscato. Right. So is that, for an alcoholic, a gateway to this, to that, to that, to that, right? So for me, I can't talk for anybody else. For me, I don't fuck with none of it anybody else for me i don't fuck with none of it because for me i'm happy with where i am today i fucking feel so fucking good make some noise

the only thing i don't feel good about is i'm a fat fuck so i gotta lose this weight but that's also a part of my process right because now you know do I like donuts yeah but I gotta get rid of them why are you seeing donuts over there no no no I'm not FN's over there so there might be a donut there might be a donut or two

but people you know if you're ready for the munchies if you're ready for munchies no but you know but people, I think make this invalid, inaccurate assumption. Dude, I'm around all of y'all. Y'all are smoking. I'm not triggered. You know why?

Because it ain't for me. It's like when dudes go to a bar and they don't drink. Why? It ain't for them. Dude, I agree with you. And I want to be really clear. Baca rock crystal clear on this. All right?

I'm glad you can smoke and feel good about it. I'm glad everybody in here that smokes and puffs trees feel good about it. It don't work for me. That's right. That's it. That's it. That's it. I'm on the fucking noise for that. That's right. That's it. That's it. That's it. I'm on the fucking noise for that.

That's real. That's real. That's good shit. I'm going to pop. I think you got to go with the gold. I think you got to go with the gold. Come on, bro. I took three already.

Take the gold and then after that, the platinum. You know what I mean? I'm going to be honest. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Yes, you can. All right. So this is what I want to ask you about CNN, right?

So after the war report drops, you do 450,000. Nobody expected you to do none of that, right? Nobody did none of that, right? Yeah. War report. Yeah. Did you ever feel like there was going to be a part of you that was missing if you went solo? Was there ever a part of you that was like, damn, when my man went away and all of that, I shouldn't do an Ori album, I shouldn't continue making music,

I should hold off and wait like the way M.O.P. might have done or the way other people might have done. Was there ever part of that you that said, you know what, I gotta fall back and hold off? Nah. That was a decisive answer. Because it was like, oh shit, Peter Rosenberg. That's Peter. You cool, Peter?

Love Peter. That's my dude. Let's see. Another great Jew in hip-hop, by the way. Let's see. Let's see how I don't know him. Another great Jew in hip hop, by the way. All right. Let's see if he picks up. I don't know what he just hit me. I don't know.

Let's see if he picks up. Did somebody call Peter and tell him I was here? Does that be fucked up? Look, look, look. It's against the bylaws. We here with MC Serkis. He's sleeping and shit. You don't know you jerking off.

Come on. You embarrassing me like that. Hey, yo. Yo. Yo, tell him to come yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo,

yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, What you doing? No, it's definitely a bad look Yeah, we're been talking. We're in the middle of it. Yo, we're at like hour three already, I think.

We're coming up on the third hour. So, you know, and Kane has come to see you on the 27th. I know you're happy about that. Yeah, yeah, we got you. I'm looking forward to it, man. So what's up, man? Chilling. I just want you to feel awkward now and have to sit in this. Nah, fuck that.

Yeah, here's more. Yo, yo. Yo, oh, shit. Noreen, when you get a minute, watch the clip I sent you. I just wanted to make sure you thought it was funny and that I wasn't talking shit. All right, cool. Because you know I got jokes back, so it's okay. Don't worry.

Just in case. Hey, yo. Hey, yo. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hey, yo. Hey, yo.

I'm sorry. Chag Sameach Pesach, brother. Oh! That's what I'm talking about I'm about to be down with the Jewish Illuminati too That's a funny story That's a funny story Jewish Illuminati When I was doing radio in Detroit I get a call

To the newsroom Yo sir, Sean is on the phone And I'm like Sean Pope? I get a call to the newsroom. Yo, sir, Sean is on the phone. Oh, Sean. And I'm like, oh, Sean Pope? You got to pick up. Sean Pope? I'm like, yeah. That's orthodox, right?

Wait, wait, wait. So he just got, he was just, maybe it was about a year and a half. So I'm like, oh, we got to record this. It's got to be live for the morning show. So just kind of stop me for one second. Yes, absolutely. Let me just ask you one thing. You can ask me whatever you want.

Because you say you are nimblyated. You are out of this world. Nimblyated? This is a word I made up. Yeah. This is a word I made up. And I'm using it. It does not affect you. Smelling this.

Nope. Drinking that. Nope. Can you open up a bottle of champagne? Of course. Of course. You can open it? I'm going to feel like you from Gwynn.

But listen, don't fuck this up. He's the new Mr. Lee? Brother, can I just tell you, I know, yo, come on, man. Can you open up a bottle of champagne? I'm a fucking Jew, dude. I don't think I know what the fuck I'm doing with this on, man. I'm a fucking Jew, dude. I don't think I know what the fuck I'm doing. Let's see if you still got it.

Still got it. When the last time you opened them up, that's a $500 bottle of champagne. That's $300. I was going to say. Put it in that hat. Put it in that hat. But let's see.

And this is hip-hop on, too. Hip-hop on. We just sold it. But let's see if you can do it-hop on, too. Hip-hop on. We just sold out. But let's see if you can do it. I see the tab. Hold on. Okay, yeah. When was the last time you opened a bottle of champagne?

Oh, boy. Is it 88? Probably my kids bar bar mitzvah. Oh, okay. So 2014. Okay. 2014. Okay, okay.

2014. You still think you got the skills? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. 2014. Okay, you still think you got the skills? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We're going to test you out right now. Because, as you know, the skills are that when you open up a bottle of champagne, the

key is... It's the Jewish secret? No. Let's know. It's just a champagne secret. It's a champagne secret. Unless you want to give me a saber and I can do a saber stuff. No, I don't know. I don't want to cut the stuff. You're going to cut the joint? No, no, no. If you me a saber and I can do a saber stuff. No, I don't know.

You're going to cut the joint? No, no, no. If you have a saber, I can do it that way. No, no, no. So the key is, right, you want to hold it to the thumb. Okay. Right? Because you don't know if the air is coming this way.

Right. Right? Uh-huh. So let's get that off. That's what she said. Uh-huh. That's what she said. Right?

Okay. Let's do it. Huh? A little tight. That's what she said. Uh's what she said. Right? Okay. Let's do it. A little tight. That's what she said. Okay. Now, trick is you want to twist and let the air out.

He's still got it! Yeah! He's still got it! I'm not going to lie! He might have embarrassed a lot of people in here. Yo, he still got it. I'm not going to lie. Yo, he might have embarrassed a lot of people in it. Yo, listen. Hold on. Did you hear that?

The air? It wasn't even when he popped. It was the air. Oh, shit. That's perfect air. That is a... We need to cure this. Yo, yo.

I've been pouring it. Chew burrow. Listen, I'm already... Chew burrow. Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Mad thorough. No, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. Did you hear that? That shit is a Somali year. That's what the guys who come in here. A Somali?

Somali age. I know. I know. Somali age. You motherfuckers knew what I meant! I didn't mean to gobble some tamale. I meant, you know, holy shit, that was hard. That was hard.

No, Serge, let me just say something, man. You are a legend. When we started the show like this, this is what our purpose was. Was, you know, we figured that these new guys, they have their other platforms. You make these new records and it's great. And we want to support them too. I don't want to feel like a drink champs don't support the new generation. We do support the new generation.

It's our focus. It's on the generation that came before us, the generation that laid it down prior to us. And we want to continue to do that. When we have artists like you, it's such an honor, it's such a pleasure, and it's such a moment for us. The shit you were saying just now,

I was just falling back into fan mode. And I'm sitting back, I'm like, because some of this shit I knew, and then some of it I Googled, and then some of it I was like, I don't even, I just want to figure it out right now. And it's such a beautiful moment for me. I know it's such a beautiful moment for me. I know it's such a beautiful moment for Em.

And we want to thank you in your face. We want to, you know, tell you how much we appreciate for what you're doing because there's a lot of people who had your positions, had your moments, had your time. I could have said, you know what? I did it. I did my part. Let me get out of here. Let me take my own money. Let me get the fuck I did my part let me get out of here let me take my money you get the fuck away I gotta dodge let me get out of here well you know one of the things and and I will say this you know one of

the things and I feel the same way this is a fanboy moment for me too because I'm such a fan of yours not only because thank you Not only because I love being on the road with you, and I love being a small part of a great record getting on the radio and doing that, but what you guys have built is what I strive for. You know, even with my Search Says podcast, even with my individual podcast, like, I study what you do in your interviews

so that when I do my interviews, I know I'm ready for it. Like, I'm trying to do in your interviews so that when I do my interviews, I know I'm ready for it. Like, I'm trying to be the Howard Stern of hip-hop. Like, I want to fucking hit people over the head with shit where they go, oh, shit.

Like, when I hit Chris Rock over the head with knowing that he had, he was on the spectrum of Asperger's. He didn't even, you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you know, or talking to, like, Kamal Bell about growing up in Oakland and knowing shit about him that, you know, I mean? Wow. You know what I mean? Like, you know, we're talking to, like, Kamal Bell about growing up in Oakland and knowing shit about him that, you know, talking to fucking Roger Clemens about the blood blister in 86

and how it was bullshit and that, you know what I'm saying? Right. So, like, I like to get in, but that is you returning what I gave to y'all. Right. You know what I mean?

And that's why I'm here. That's why I sat down. That's why I sat down. That's why I wanted to be a part of this. But you're so much of a legend, man. Like, when you look at, you know...

But I did want to say this real quick. I'm sorry, because you said something about... I'm going to keep beating you up. Stop beating me up.

Stop letting me not beat you up. I see how humble you are. I'm going to humble you today. When we build Nouveau, when we build Nouveau, right? One of the things that I told... That's right. When we built Nouveau, when we built Nouveau, right? One of the things that I told...

When we built Nouveau, my philosophy was real simple when I went to the company. I said, I want to create my department to help artists and do integrations so that they don't have

recoupment on their videos. So we're going to pay for 100% of their videos and only take 10% of the time. Right? In three years, 2008 to 2011. We gave Atlantic Records $2.6 million. We gave Def Jam $3 million. We gave Capitol, we gave Sony Sony we gave RCA millions of dollars

and I'm not saying we didn't make it because we did we sold Nouveau for 2011 to Diageo for $376 million in four years I'm about accelerating opportunity but my philosophy was simple give to the artists

make sure that this company benefits artists first and foremost, and then everything else will come back. It's like what the gods say, it's born to born. That 10th degree, that knowledge has to come back. So what you guys are doing

for people like me, and the reason I was able to make my joint venture with Sony, is this is an example. Well, we're all building off each other's backs. Right. And that's the point that we've kind of been regurgitating over and over again.

And it also goes back to your union, it goes back to all the people that are here that make this show possible. Your engineer, the sound guys, the guys that compromise their time. Right. The one most valuable commodity we have, beyond money, is time.

We don't ever get it back. This, you know, whatever time it is now, because I don't want to date it because it might be evergreen. This guy, the time we have now, we never get it back. So let's manufacture our time to equate to greatness. You know, I mean, because everything else is bullshit. Everything else don't mean shit. I mean, we can drink all the wine and we don't mean shit. You know what I mean? We can drink all the wine that we want. We can smoke all the weed we want. But if we don't maximize our time and doing what you're doing

and doing what, you know, what the fuck is it for? No, it's true. It's true. It's true. Let me ask you something real quick about Searchlight. Because I swear to God

that I've seen Searchlight forever. Did you sell the company? Mm-mm. I closed it. The only thing that exists now is Searchlight Publishing, because there's just too much. I mean, we got obviously we got Nas, you know, that we administer, but we also work with

Ashley Rose, who's an amazing writer. She wrote for 7th Street, Chris Brown, Bodie James, who's down with Griselda, did the Versace tape, you know, he's down with that. Kevill the Great, who wrote for 7th Street, Chris Brown, Bodie James, who's down with Griselda. Did the Versace tape. You know, he's down with that. Kevil the Great, who wrote for like a gang of artists in Atlanta. A man, Big Sed, who's down here working with Earn and working with City Girls and all that shit. So the only thing that exists is Searchlight, Searchlight Publishing.

Everything else I closed. And when I had my own personal awakening, I said to my wife, I said, you know, it can't be about me anymore. I got amazing kids. You're amazing. And if I would have spent a 10th of my time listening to my wife, I would have been a hundred times more successful. So I said to my wife, take everything. She, my wife owns the royalties, owns the publishing, owns the everything. And if I want to do something in business, I talk to Chantel first. I can't make any decisions anymore.

Chantel, is she a black woman? Yep, black and Puerto Rican. Get it right. Cool, cool. From Elmhurst. Get it right. She's you, but a woman. And she don't smoke,

and she don't smoke And she don't smoke And she don't drink You see what's going on Gary Old is Gary Old Yeah come on Poor guy You see Gary Old Yeah

They asking you Is Gary Old still Inviting you to the barbecue I thought that was hilarious Yeah So I'm with I'm with my With my bride 33 years

Right So So when I created 4MC And I made it about The kids And I made it about my wife, it's because that is my sun, my earth, and my moon. And if I would have, and I know he got it in him. If there's something about blacks and Puerto Ricans, they got it in them. My wife, she could sit down with you for five minutes. Five minutes.

She'll walk away from the table and say, don't fuck with him. Or the opposite, fuck with him. And I used to say this, come on, you don't know what you're talking about. No. Not good. Beyond that. And if I would have just spent a tenth of my time with her

saying, you're right, I would have been a hundred times more successful. A hundred times. So now, the last five years of my company with 4MC has been 50 times more successful than it's ever been in the 25 years prior. Because I look at her and I say, what do you think?

And she says, give me all the information. She says to me, and I'll start talking, and she goes, Michael, land the information. She says to me, and I'll start talking, and she goes, Michael, land the plane. Land the plane. And then she says, I want to meet him. And if those two things don't happen, it just doesn't happen. And I know you got it, too.

Make some noise for your wife. So what's next? What's next, motherfucker? Well, you know, what's next? What's next? What's next, motherfucker? Well, you know, what's next, honestly, is Timeless Podcast Company. You know, I believe... It's a complete network?

It's a joint venture that we did with Sony and The Orchard. Nice. It is an entire organization. I believe that the titles and the colloquialisms that we put on our culture is fucked up because we are not classic, we are not old school, we are not legend, we are timeless so I call everything I do timeless timeless podcast company, timeless distribution

and the timeless podcast company is about telling our stories but telling it in a way that will live forever. And one of my favorite things to listen to in the archives, radio archives, is Orson Welles, when he did the broadcast in 1940, War of the Worlds, Theater of the Mind. And I wanted to do that times 100. And when I heard Kane's story and he started blessing me, because that's really what Kane did. I mean, he blessed me with nine episodes of just shit he never talked about.

I said, it can't be just this. I want to hear the fucking leaves rustling on fucking, on his block. I want to hear, yo, he grew up across the street from Divine Sounds. I talked to Disco Richie about what people do for money. And we built the sound design all around that. You know what I'm saying?

So when you hear it and even create it at the beginning of our show, Immersive Sound Design, we have a trademarked registered sound effect that was built in a studio, my man Epic and Sugar Studios, that was built to encapsulate everything you're going to hear, everything that you hear. So everything that we do in Timeless Podcast is based on immersive sound design. And we have amazing partners. And, you know, obviously, so there's that.

It's called Did I Ever Tell You the One About Podcast. Did I Ever Tell You About Big Daddy Kane. Premieres April 26th. We got Search Says podcast, which is just an interview, you know, kicking it with people. We have the Breaking Anonymity podcast, which is coming in the summer. We have Line for Line, which you're going to love. It's two emcees talking about how much they influenced each other. So the first season is DMC and Chuck D.

Wow. And here's a little treat for you. I'm going to bang your head with this one. Get a little treat for you I'm going to bang your head with this one Get a little more sauce I'm going to bang your head The original name of Run DMC The original name Darryl wasn't supposed to be in the group DMC was not supposed to be in the group

It was just Joey, Joey and Jay May he rest in peace Joey said hey I know you got some rhymes Come to the studio, come to the studio Just come to the studio and kick the rhymes And they did suck MCs He's saying that to DMC Right

Russell says to Joey If this doesn't work out We're going to call the group Run the MC Because it'll be run But after Darryl kicked his verse Russell was so happy they called it Run DMC For Daryl McDaniels

And he blessed us on our podcast We're the first people That he tells the whole story That's what Timeless is about man It's making this shit evergreen So that when people look back And we're going to talk to the newer artists And we're going to talk to them

And we have another great show that we're lining up and all of that, but the time this podcast is coming is about this. It's about making our stories evergreen, making them last forever, and Kane is the first iteration of that. Goddamn, make some noise for that. Thank you.

I ain't going to lie. Serge, you was my man. You actually, one of the people that I sit down and you tell your story and I can co-sign it all the way through. You are absolutely right. I met you through Al Canelli. I had my T.O.I. record, had my couple of records, and you brought me on tour.

We went on tour. We had a beautiful time. And I want to thank you to your face as a man because there's a lot of things that you did in hip hop that you didn't have to do. And you did it. And just in case you ever not felt like you got your flowers or you get your flowers.

We invented the actual statement of giving the flowers. We made it famous in hip hop. You cemented it. In hip hop. I'm sorry. Because I could just remember, and it was so beautiful like today and yesterday.

I just spent those two days just watching all your videos. And I'm like, yo, my man, rhythm. You got more rhythm than me on the low. I ain't gonna lie. Like when I looked, I said, I don't know if I could have did certain shit that you was doing. Like, you know, like he was really dancing. Like back then you had to dance.

You can't just be a backup dancer. You had to be dancing too. Crazy shit. It was my first tour that we ever went on was with Too Short. Right? Right. Right. Cause you know, we had the West coast and East Coast locked up, but we had to do the Midwest. Right. So Russell's telling me, oh, there's this dude Too Short. And I'm like, oh, Buona Macchio. I know about

Short Talk. So we go, and our first show is, I don't know, somewhere blank, middle of the country. Somewhere. Right. We get on stage, and typical New Yorker, everybody knows me. Everybody knows Third Base, right typical New Yorker, everybody knows me. Everybody knows Third Base, right?

You're thinking this. Of course, because I'm from New York. Fuck everybody else. Right? Yo, that's a fact, though, B. I don't give a fuck. That's a fact, though. Fact, though.

There was New York, and then the rest of the world was a black fucking... I've heard my argument for three years. Yo, fact, though. Fact, though. So we're though. Go ahead, sir. So we're in the middle of nowhere, right? It's just mountains, and we're doing this show. And Too Short, all love. Yo, hey, player, blah, blah, blah, blah, player, player. Yo, what up, man?

I'll go do your thing, man. I'm going to be on stage and watch you do your thing. Yo, I'm talking about the crowd was, they were like, you know, they were polite. You know, they were polite. And they kind of knew our records for, you know, from BET and your own TV. Yo, I went out there dancing my ass off. I'm grabbing girls. I'm dancing.

And the crowd starts getting with us. Oh, everybody, all the homeboys and all, right, right. Crowd, we leave. We're like, ah. Too short. Crowd's going crazy even before he touches the stage. Too short. Walked across the stage

and went, bitch! And that's all he did for 45 minutes. And annihilated us. Annihilated us. We got back to the bus. There was like three people there. And his bus, it couldn't even leave.

So I'm like, oh, he must have this city on lock. We go to the next one. It was Oklahoma. Same shit. I'm dancing. I mean, now I'm doing the worm. I'm trying to get my...

Yo, I'm fucking... I'm like, yo, snake. I'm just... You know, like, I'm just... I'm trying to fucking... Yo, I'm putting out all the stuff. Hop through my leg, kidding play style. Like, I'm just, you know, like, I'm just, I'm trying to, yo, I put out all the stuff. Hop through my leg, kidding, play style.

Like, I'm fucking amped, right? Bitch! That's when I knew. So there was two times when I knew that New York wasn't shit. That was A. And B. And no, it's, no, facto, facto, and I love you to death, but it is what it is. But the second was when we went on the road, Public Enemy.

So it's Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Queen Latifah, Native Tongues, right? We get down south. And I used to love, what I used to love is I used to love to go to the side of the stage and see the lineup. Because it would usually be ba-ba-ba-ba-ba or Kane, then Kane and Public Enemy or third base Public Enemy. We get down south, Baton Rouge. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Third base Public Enemy, two live crew. And I'm like, oh, there's got to be a fucking problem here.

And I go to Chuck. I said, Chuck, they fucked up the lineup. He understood. They fucked up the lineup. He's like, no, they didn't. I said, yeah, they did, man. You're fucking Public Enemy. He's like, watch.

And I said, watch what? Fucking two fucking public enemy he's like watch and I said watch what fucking two live crew they got one record he said search shut up and watch and we got to the side of the stage we perform crowd goes crazy

public enemy performs crowd goes crazy and then all of a sudden the cops come in and then all of a sudden two live crew hits the stage and Luke says hey they ain't gonna let us say our words so you gonna say them

hey we want some pussy and they didn't have to say one word I never seen a dance like this in my life the upper row they were doing like fucking musical chairs around chairs fucking 10,000 people. Yo, yo. So they didn't even do the record. They didn't even do Me So Horny. They didn't even do that. Then he goes, they're going to say this word, so, oh, do the, do the brown. I'm like, what the fuck are these records? No, these motherfuckers did a hour of records I ain't never heard before. Before they got

to me so horny. And I feel a tap on my shoulder and I turn around and it's Chuck and he says, you always let the hottest group close. So, fast forward, we're in Europe. We're doing Public Enemy Third Base

World Tour. We have the number one record in the country of gas phase. At the time, the Queen of England was trying to pass a law called the poll tax, P-O-L-L tax. And basically what it said was Parliament was trying to say, okay, every person in every household has to pay a flat tax of 2,500 pounds. Now, if you're a blue-collar worker and you got mom, dad, two kids, 10,000 pounds, 40,000 a year pounds, it's fine.

It's not a big deal. But in the Trini neighborhoods and Brixton and South London, yo, they had 12, 15 people living under a roof. Caribbean families, they couldn't afford that fucking, yo, they're not even bringing that home. It was civil unrest. I mean, it was like Black Lives Matter before Black Lives Matter. I mean, ash fucking barrels burning in the streets, no poll

tax, all of that. We go to Brixton Academy, which is like one of the oldest theaters in London, in Brixton. I look at the Public Enemy third base. Right? So I'm like, okay, okay, okay. Flavor, I'll never forget this.

So this is this old rickety building with the base, the building shaking. Flavor gets on top of a six stacked set of speakers and doing his Flavor dance. And this thing is rocking like this. Like I thought he was going to kill himself. Crowd is going crazy. Trini's, brr brr brr.

Caribbean heads, everybody's in the middle of Brixton. I come on stage, we come on stage, crowd goes crazy, right? We're going to end with gas face. Everybody, MC search, I cut off the music. I said, yo, Black Cat is bad luck, and I'm screaming it as loud as I can. Black Cat is bad luck. Bad guys wear black.

Must have been the same queen that set up the poll tax. Get the... We couldn't even finish the song. They ran into the streets. I mean, it was crazy. Next day, London Times, third base gives the queen the gas face. Oh, shit. Crazy, right? Crazy.

We tour the country. We come back, we do Wembley. 160,000 people. Biggest show I've ever seen in my life. Was it tennis shit, Wembley? No, that's Wembley the thing. This is Wembley Arena. All right, let's go.

All right. It's like 140,000, 160,000 people. Now it's third basey Arena. All right, let's go. All right. This is like 140,000, 160,000 people. And now it's third base and PE. Right. But I go out there and we do gas fees. And before my even verse comes on, the whole crowd, Black Cat is bad luck, bad guys wear black, must have been the same queen that set up the pole tech.

Crowd went crazy. Crowd went crazy. I learned from those guys that you always let the hottest group close. And when we went on tour on third base and we found out about Naughty and we found out about Cypress, when we were on the west coast, we let them close. Right. Naughty on the east coast.

Yeah, but they were the hottest on the west. They was hottest on the west. Okay. All right, now, I also saw one thing, too, that you said. You knew Bushwick Bill from Bushwick? Oh, yeah, from Brooklyn. Bushwick Bill's from Bushwick? Yeah, that's why they call him Bushwick Bill.

I mean, it makes sense. I thought they was from Texas. Come on, man. DJ Premier from Texas too, but he's from Brooklyn now. Yo, that fucked me up. Because we see him with Jake Prince. Yeah.

I swear this car face is pretty. He's fucking move, man. I'm from LA. I didn't know Bush and Bill was from Bushwick, though. That's different. I thought it did make sense when you said it. But I was like, wait a minute. I thought they were all from Texas.

Well, they eventually were from Texas. So you knew him from Brooklyn. How the fuck did you meet Bushwick, Bill, and Brooklyn? Just from being around the scene. Like I told you, I'm the fucking Forrest Gump. I was everywhere. I was fucking everywhere. So I met you, I'm the fucking Forrest Gump. I was everywhere. Like, I was fucking everywhere. So I met Bill when I was with the Bad Boys.

Inspector Gadget. Remember that record? So half the dudes were from Bed-Stuy. The other dudes were from Brownsville. And we just bumped into Bill. Wow.

And, yeah, we just became cool. And then, like, maybe six months, a year later, he moved to Houston. Okay. Bushwick Bill's originally from Bushwick. Yes, sir.

That's why they call him Bushwick Bill. Maybe that's why. They traded. Fuck me up. They traded Premier for Bushwick Bill. I don't know. A hell of a trade. That's a hell of a trade. It's a fucking great trade to me, man.

Fuck it, man. Yo, let me tell you something, man. Both legends. Both legends. Rest in peace, Bushwick Bill. Yo, man. Yo, let me tell you something. Both legends. Both legends. Rest in peace, Bush. Yo, man. I can't thank you so much, my brother. Like, wow.

So do you know I was going to ask you not to smoke weed here, right? Yeah, it was going to happen. No, I know. That's why I didn't ask you. But I just want to let you know to your face that I love you. Yeah, I love you too, my brother. And I hope we exchange numbers and I hope we get to break bread. Yes, of course, yeah. But I just want to let you know to your face that I love you. Yeah, I love you too, my brother. And I hope we exchange numbers, and I hope we get to break bread. Yes, of course, man.

Yes, listen to me, bro. You are what we call a legend. You are what we call a hip-hop aficionado, or a person that stood with the test of time, and is still standing here. We want to tell you that to your face. We talk about you like that when you're not around. We want to talk about you like that when you are around.

The stories, the interviews, it was crazy because I just came from New York, and I missed my flight. I was supposed to go to L.A., and then come here. But it was great because I did a two-day study on you. So I'm just keep rolling up. I'm just keep rolling up. And I'm like, I'm trying to figure out when.

And this will be my last question. Yeah, sure. Alright. Because when I can look at people's time capsule of this game, I can say this motherfucker hated hip-hop a hair. When I look at

my own shit, oh, I know when I hated hip-hop. Oh, wow. I look at other people, oh, I know when I hated it. Oh, wow. I look at other people's shit, I know when I hated it. Definitively, I could not, if, you can correct me if I'm wrong, if there was ever a moment that you did just say, this is not what I signed up for, this is not what I wanted to be a part of. When I looked at the footage that is available and the Googles that is available,

was there ever a moment where you was just like, man, this is not it. This is not what I want to be a part of. This is, was there ever one? No. Never? No. This culture gave me everything.

Okay, so was there any point you was disappointed? You can't tell me no on that. No, yes. When Vanilla Ice and Hammer were on the radio and all people... I respect that. ...were not on the radio. I respect that. That, for me, was Harper.

I always tried, and again, I don't like to use finite words, but I'll use it here. I always tried my best to figure out how I can contribute the best way I could, even in building nonfiction and being a part of that

and having a plan and going to Geffen and just saying, hey, these guys are going to be the Ramones of hip hop. Like I just knew it. Like I just knew that they didn't need radio to be millionaires and, you know, sell millions of records and just building a studio with Necro and ill bill in the middle of Brooklyn and making music.

Um, nine has never been a time. I owe hip hop everything. if it wasn't for this culture accepting me and allowing me to do what I do, your girl would be telling me to go get a size 7 shoe at Nordstrom. Everything that I've done in my career has been around the philosophy that I was taught in the culture. Peace, unity, love, and having fun. And the tenets of this culture.

Because, you know, I come from a place where there was no term as hip-hop. You know, I heard Gram Mix and DST say this, like, you know, the term hip-hop was a derogatory term. We didn't want it to be called that. When I was coming up, it was kids dancing in the street, writing their names on the walls, DJing in parties and rapping in the street.

There was no thing. I think the New York Times called it that, or the New Yorker. We didn't want to call it that, but we adapted, right? I owe this culture everything. I don't know what I would... I would be a shoe salesman. I'm sure I would be selling something,

but I would not be what I would, I would be a shoe salesman. I'm sure I would be selling something, but I would not be where I am and I would not be able to afford the life that I have. And I would not be able to afford the family that I have. But no, and I still look for new music and I still love new talent and I still try to find, I still try to get up on shit before anybody else. I got a crew of homeboys that we call and I'm like, yo, you up on Marcus Craft? Oh, you up on blah, blah, blah? I'm still that dude. I'm still that 17-year-old kid that instead of going to Rock and Soul, instead of going to J&R Music World,

instead of going to wherever the record spot was in every place in this country, I'm on the internet trying to find who's next you know like when i heard j cole's warm-up when i heard lights please i said to my homeboy i said yo this kid's about to be the greatest one of the greatest lights please if you haven't heard that record i don't know if you have or not i would strongly suggest you spend some time with that record but now what's what's your favorite moment of hip-hop without you without you oh participating in hip-hop oh i mean there's so many bro um the one

that comes up yeah the one the one of my favorites is krs at the lion quarter about to perform you know the south bronx and while he's on stage melino wow Mel comes in. Wow. Holy shit, bro. Go ahead. Yeah. Oh, so just so we're clear, I was the first person with Skylar Rockman, rest in peace. I was there when the first time that record ever got played in a club. So I'm watching KRS and Scott get on stage, and Melly Mel comes behind him and wants to battle him. Wow. And Mel pulls out a hundred. And from the stage, it looked like it was a pretty crumpled hundred.

And Chris said, a hundred? And he turned to Scott, and Scott handed him a band, a thousand. He said, how about a thousand? And then fucking South Bronx came on. It was the South Bronx. Crowd went fucking ape shit. And that was the whole battle. Originally it wasn't a disc record to Queens. Originally it was not. It was the South Bronx. Crowd went fucking ape shit. And that was the whole battle. Originally it wasn't a disc record to Queens. Originally it was not.

No, not at all. It was just stating the fact. Right. It was not an MC Shan. I have pictures of, and it's in Paradise's book, of Shan and KRS hanging out together in the LQ.

Right. You know what I'm saying? And that's one of the things, like when you talk about East West and you talk about this and that, like that's the streets That magnified out the artists Right

It's misunderstanding Like even Magic and Red Alert Were cool Like they weren't They didn't have beef with each other We magnified that in the street Right But that's one of my favorites

That's one of my favorite Memories of hip hop That I always That sticks with me You know Skylar Rock Was like my big brother You know what I mean Rest in peace

And I was I was at the I was there when KRS and Miss Melody and Scotty Morris walked out of the Brock's hospital when they found out that he was brain dead. And he just walked past me. He didn't even acknowledge me. And he kept mumbling the same thing. We just got to move on. We just got to move on.

And Friday was the show at Madison Square Garden. Wow. I'm the Forrest Gump. Damn it! Goddamn, man. Make some noise for the motherfucking MC, motherfucking Sirk! So I came walking to your house

without giving you some gifts. Yeah. So I got some gifts for y'all. Oh, shit. Yep, I brought some gifts. Lee-In. So before I leave... You got the STEMI pack? That's for y'all. Oh, yeah. Yep. I brought the gifts. Yeah, so before I leave You got the steamy pack. That's for you

That's for you. Thank you, sir. And that's for you. Well, that's for you and I got two more in my pocket So this is the 30th anniversary of derelicts Pop goes a weasel and the 30th anniversary of KMD Mr. Hood. So those are our challenge coins that we're dropping. This is like a big coin? On timeless.com. Not challenge coins. It's challenger coins.

And I got stands for y'all, so I wanted y'all to have them there. The first off the mint, so you guys are the first ones to get them. Wow, brother. There was a camera so we could... Zoom in, goddammit. I'm about to pack these up. Y'all need to pee. Packing the shit up.

We had them in the velvet. We had to do it proper. Yeah, definitely. So when you're ready to do the T-O-M-Y one, when you're ready to do the CNN ones, you let me know. Let's go. I have no idea what we're doing.

I'm going to call you now. It's just a coin. It's just a coin, bro. It's not Bitcoin. No, it's a collector's coin. It's not an NFT. Not an NFT, but I will share this.

This is dope. And April 15th. NFT? NFT with Ernie Panicoli. We're creating an NFT of his infamous Biggie in the Jeep image. You want to give people

a quick rundown of NFT before we get out of here? Yeah, so an NFT, so an NFT stands for non-fungible token. It's basically a digital imprint or digital code. Thank you. And that digital code is encrypted with a watermark. It's a one of one. Authenticated by the blockchain. Right.

And you can either buy it on an auction, either cash or crypto or both. The one that we're doing on April 15th will be Ethereum. We've partnered with Ethereum to do that. If you're unfamiliar, go to OpenSea.com. And we will help those who want to get involved open up a crypto wallet. Because that's the other part of the education is if you want to get wealth, real wealth, then you have to understand cryptocurrency. So we will help. Coinbase is one of the apps to use. Right. OpenSea. So we are helping those who

want to be involved in this NFT auction, create their cryptocurrency wallet. So you can do that. And then we'll be doing others. Yeah. Towards the end. We're actually working on something. Good. That's great. that's great that's great well if you really want to get some money you holla at me let's take some pictures

and take a drop and this is it man thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs hosted by yours truly DJ EFN

and NORE please make sure to follow us on all our socials it's at Drink Champs across all platforms, at TheRealNoriega on IG, at Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to drinkchamps.com. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey

of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. You can now binge all 10 episodes of Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes, but there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.