Drink Champs - Episode 282 w/ April Walker

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode we chop it up with fashion icon, April Walker!Through her brand “Walker Wear”, April helped create a multi-billion industry, known today as streetwear. April shares stories of working w/ 2Pac, Naughty By Nature, Run DMC and more! Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss!Make some noise for April Walker!!!💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆Listen and subscribe at http://www.drinkchamps.com Follow Drink Champs:http://www.instagram.com/drinkchampshttp://www.twitter.com/drinkchampshttp://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps DJ EFNhttp://www.crazyhood.comhttp://www.instagram.com/whoscrazyhttp://www.twitter.com/djefnhttp://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions N.O.R.E.http://www.instagram.com/therealnoreagahttp://www.twitter.com/noreaga Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Your gut microbiome and those healthy bacteria can actually have positive effects. Your mental health, your immunity, your risk of cancer, almost any disease under the sun. This week on Dope Labs, Titi and I dive into the world of probiotics, the hype, the science, and what your gut bacteria are really doing behind the scenes. From drinks and gummies to probiotic pillows. Yes, really, probiotic pillows. We're breaking down what's legit and what's just brilliant marketing.

With expert insight from gastroenterologist Dr. Roshi Raj. Listen to Dope Labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war.

J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. You can now binge all 10 episodes of Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Drink Champs, a production of the Black Effect and iHeartRadio. Queens rapper. Hey, hey, it's your boy N-O-R-E. He's a Miami hip-hop pioneer.

One of his DJ EFN. Together, they drink it up with some of the biggest players in the most professional, unprofessional podcast and your number one

source for drunk facts. It's Drink Champs motherfucking podcast where every day is New Year's Eve. It's time for Drink Champs. Drink up,

motherfuckers. What it good be? Hope it is what it should be. This is your boy N.O.R.E. What up? It's DJ EFN. And this is Drink Champs, motherfucker, and the happy hour. Make some noise! And one of our guests today, one of our best things that I started to do, EFN, was to do research, right?

And when I researched this strong woman, I really like, you never seen the X-Man? And you seen Storm? Because Storm was the strong woman of X-Man that can turn into anything that she wanted to. And when I researched, I felt like I was researching a storm. Nobody else read comic books here? Mystique, it's Mystique. I said storm. I said it's Mystique. And when I tell you from her first store in Brooklyn to her conquering the world, there's a lot of people who cannot

say I worked with Biggie and Tupac. There's a lot of people who cannot say I worked with one DMC and Jay-Z. There's not a lot of people, period, in those categories.

And when you Google, and when you understand the line that it meant to the culture, and you understand that she stood back and said, you know what, I want the line to speak for itself for years. And said, I'm going to take the step back.

And then now, years later, you see what it's involved to, what clothing means to hip hop, how artists actually get signed and hired as a stylist. If this woman that we have today wasn't here and didn't take the forefront of, you know, we had the FUBUs, we had the Carcanas, we never had a woman just running the forefront. And in case you don't know

how proud we are of this history, in case y'all don't know, y'all need to stand up and make some noise for the honorable, the impeccable April Walker. God damn it. Wow. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I mean, I'm just humbled by that. No, no, you know what's crazy? Is obviously I had to do my research. So I went and you, what documentary you told me to watch? Fresh Dressed. Fresh Dressed. I watched Fresh Dressed,

but before I watched Fresh Dressed, I watched the remix. Okay. With Misa and Dap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was basically you, Misa, and Dap's documentary, in my opinion. I did not realize

how, because to me, as an outsider looking in, that's an insider. Right. I just thought you guys, Gucci, send you guys clothing and you guys just cut it up. I thought...

Especially not back then. No, listen, I was so naive. I just thought that you guys had it made. Like, I thought that if you was a designer, you basically... Get the fabric. Got the fabric that you guys had it made. Like, I thought that if you was a designer, you basically get the fabric. Got the fabric, you cut it up

and just get to... I had no idea of the struggles, the flights. And when I'm researching you because I know when you come out saying, holy shit, I was ashamed of myself because here I am as a person that's in the culture, a part of the culture, but I had no idea of what you guys went through.

I was just going to say, like, that's why it's important for this show. Because you're telling our stories. And we can't count on other people to tell our stories. We have to tell our own stories. So that's one of the reasons I wanted to be here. Thank you. Goddamn, no problem. No problem. No problem. reasons I wanted to be here. Thank you. Goddamn, no, no, no problem. No problem.

No problem. No problem. It's true. It's true. And I've been listening, like, not just this story. You tell so many important stories

and unsung heroes that really have really done a lot for the culture, but people might not know. So the fact that you dig in like that, it's priceless. No, no, I love love it so you know where i want to go first i want to go to your first store um fashion and effect oh right yep that was um

fashion and effect yep clinton hill brooklyn okay i just want y'all to understand because a lot of y'all didn't make noise when she said Clinton Hill, Brooklyn, because y'all probably thinking of Clinton Hill, Brooklyn now. Yeah. But back in the days, Clinton Hill, Brooklyn was very rough. I'll paint that picture. Yes. So, right, I started in 87. So when I first started, you got to think Reaganomics crack era.

You got to think New York City was different, right? So the hustlers were hanging with the SEALs. The SEALs were hanging with... You know, it was just like you go to Bentley's, you could see everything at the bar together. Okay, tell me about it. Just in case y'all don't know, Bentley's was one of the hottest clubs in New York City.

By the way, she flossed on us, by the way. Just in case y'all didn't know, continue, continue. You got to help me out. Okay, the landscape. So when you think about the 80s, well, just in case y'all ain't know, continue, continue. You got to help me out. Okay, the landscape. So when you think about the 80s, right, we're talking about it was electric in New York. Right. It was like the hustlers, no disrespect to artists and rappers and emcees, but a lot of that, what you see in videos, comes from that 80s period on the streets

and what was happening, right? Okay, Dominican guy, relax. Like, you were there? That's very real. Yeah, that's real, that's real, that's real. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, he was there, he was there. He was there, he was there.

So, it was just like this period where you were hustling, trying to figure it out. And then at the same time, I was graduating. I graduated high school. I went to Lachlan, Bishop Lachlan. Bishop Lachlan? And Brooklyn Tech. Oh, my God. That's where Kenny Anderson went.

Kenny Anderson went to Bishop Lachlan. No, Bishop Malloy. Okay. My other friend who sold cracks went to Bishop Molloy. I went to school with Mark Jackson. Mark Jackson, that's what I'm talking about. I know I'm on point. My fucking, my fucking, my queen's basketball players.

Okay, go ahead, go ahead. So then, and Kenny Smith went to Molloy. Yeah, because we were both peer groups. Not Kenny, I was, I was, I had the Kenny's correct. You were close, you were right there. Okay, Kenny. But that whole period was electric because that was, to me, when the commercialization, like, it started. The spirit of entrepreneurship kicked in hard for hip-hop.

You think about Fresh Fest. You think about Run DMC, My Adidas. You think about it becoming a commercially viable business, right? And then Public Enemy came out. Fight the Public Enemy. Yeah, all of that. The branding that Public Enemy brought to the table was crazy. Oh my God, they shut it down. And they were speaking to us, right? It was everything we were feeling.

Right. So one night at the Apollo, after the Apollo, me and my girls went to Dapper Dance. Was it at nighttime? Right after amateur night at the Apollo at night. There was a lot of cocaine selling. There was a lot of stuff going on there. A lot, right? Let's go, kid.

We walk in, fabric everywhere. He's hustling. He's out there. Like, he has lines. His cheapest velour sweatsuit at that time we're talking the 80s was 300 you know what that is now that's like 1600 right that's like three g's right you know what i mean from the 80s right inflation that's without anything on it so automatically i just was seeing okay hold on when you say without anything on it okay let's just be

clear right you're talking about without logos without logos you say it's a velour suit nothing on it 300 right and then it went up from there like i remember diane dixon right she ran track olympic star shout out to diane we both were cool but like i remember when she bought that jacket she bought and he was making mink coats reversible gucci everything he was doing itink coats, reversible, Gucci, everything. He was doing it better than they were at that time. So for me, the light bulb went off. Like, we have nothing like this in Brooklyn for us. Because y'all have to understand, Brooklyn was very different than Harlem.

Harlem was very different than Queens. Burroughs were everything. At Queens, we had the Coliseum Mall. Harlem, you had Dapper Dan. Brooklyn, you had Albee Square Mall. Yeah, we definitely had that. But that was only known for gold fronts? No.

I mean, kind of. We used to go to Canal Street. Canal Street? Yeah, Canal Street. Look, he still go to Canal Street right now. You see? I think a lot of people... He went to, yeah, Canal Street. Look, he's still going to Canal Street right now. You see, look at him. I think a lot of people. He went to the Fleet Market out here.

The Fleet Market out here is Canal Street. Make some noise for Sonny. And also, the Diamond Exchange. Ooh, Diamond Exchange. 47th Street, you know, so it was a few options. But some cats went to all the square blocks. So let me ask you something. Growing up in hip hop, what was the first hip hop

brand that actually hit? Hmm. Was it Fulu? No. So for us, it was, for me, I'm going to answer WalkAware. But I'm going to say, like, we were... Wait, hold on, let's make some noise for that. You didn't consider, like, I mean, cross-colored was not...

Cross-colored was damaged. So cross-colored, so what happened was just a timeline. So I opened Fashion and Effect, and Carl had, Carl Kanae had a tailorsorship in Flatbush called, it was a tailor shop. And then it was him and AZ. And then in another part of Flatbush, there was Miguel Navarro, God bless the day. And it was the three of us,

and we were making a lot of stuff. Now, Carl came out to LA to try to figure out the production. I'm still at Fashion in Effect. And then during this storm brewing, Cross Colors started bubbling out of L.A. Now, Cross Colors and Damage, was they both black, old? Cross Colors was. Damage...

Damage was in black. You fucking on my childhood right now. No, Damage was not. I always thought Damage was... And look at you, Rastaman. Yeah, Rastaman thought it was Damage too, right? So Damage was not black-owned? That's fuckedaman. Yes, I am. Yeah, Rastaman thought it was damage too, right? So damage was not black-owned? That's fucked up.

Not to my knowledge. Holy moly, guacamole. Okay, all right. They did a lot of damage in there. They did. Everybody wore it. Like, you know, I just mean like everybody was wearing it. Okay, Cross Colors was though.

Cross Colors was. They were, if you remember, they were the first brand to be on Black Enterprise as the first $100 million brand in sales. So that was like the first one to like break through. And were they, who's created Cross Colors? Carl Jones and TJ Walker, two brothers. Okay. So now, what they, I mean, I was too young at that time to think of it. I was, I was born in 77. So I wore cross colors, but I didn't know what's the culture actually accepting. It seemed like it wasn't. Cliff Love, shout out to Cliff. He actually danced with Houdini,

and they went on to do all this amazing product placement in the field, but we were talking about it. And the East Coast didn't really wear cross colors too hard. It wasn't like a diss, but they were very colorful. And you got to think early 90s, late 80s, New York wasn't doing colors like that in a big way. You know what I mean? It was more the West Coast.

But some people did wear it, and they wore the black, red, and green suits. And that's why it popped up in a lot of, like, sitcoms and stuff. Yeah, they had the product placement. Strong. To me, gross colors was lit, but I was, like, eight years old.

So, all right. And it was cool. It was just different. So, I want to, because when we Google your name, so many pictures come up. So many beautiful pictures of artists that we can never, ever interview.

Right. We can never speak to them. So, I would like to go to a couple of your pictures and ask you the story that you remember from this. Okay. Obviously we're going to start with Tupac. Okay. That Tupac

picture, when we Google you, that Tupac picture comes up. There's a couple. There's more than one. But it's that one one with the jersey on. I wasn't there that day. How does this picture happen? Okay.

Did he buy it? Did he call you? Did you send it to him? How does this happen? So, Ed Lover, Mark Sex, there was a crew. Mark Sex was part of No Face. No Face was under the umbrella of Def Jam. Def Jam, they had a label out of Queens, right? So, like, they were Ed Lover's people, like, Stretch. Was Live Squad?

I was going to say, yeah, Live Squad, Stretch. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. So, I knew all of them. So, I started styling. Like, they had right? Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. So I knew all of them. So I started styling. Like, they had BWP, Bitches With Problems. And I was styling at this time, too, right? I started styling from fashion. And, in fact, my first styling job was with Audio 2.

Audio 2. I don't care. The 2 is Audio. That crashed up Benz. That was us and Shirt Kings. We did that together. So that was the first thing. You was us and Shirt Kings. We did that together. So that was the first thing. You're dropping way too much science.

Let me just, let me just, for the listeners that don't know, I'm from Queens, born and raised. At one point, if you didn't have a shirt

from Shirt Kings, you wasn't fly. You had to actually go there and get your shirt spray painted. Absolutely. Like, with your name on it. And you had to go back to the hood. Like, you had to go go there and get your shirt spray painted. Absolutely. Like, with your name on it. And you had to go back to the hood. Like, you had to go all the way there and go back to the hood and have your shirt spray painted and be like, yeah, that's my name.

So, I just want to, when she says Shirt Kings, I can continue. Shout out to Shirt Kings, for sure. They were one of the first, too, when we talk about first, right? Shirt Kings. We can't say not them. We got to say them. Right. Yep.

I never looked at Shirt Kings as merchandise, though. Yeah, but they were kind of like, they just don't get that credit. You're right. They really did a lot for the culture. And that spread everywhere. Everywhere. We all here in the swap beans. LL Cool J, everywhere.

But I'm saying people were copying that style of doing it. Oh, right. Everywhere, yeah. Right. So, yeah, so stretching, Pac started hanging out. Right. And I don't remember which came first,

but I remember seeing him on a set when I was styling BWP. Right. And then another time, I think it might have been when I went to try for juice I just really wanted at this time I was still doing fashion in effect so I wanted to get my clothes out there so any way I could I was hustling so I wore custom

velour sweatsuit that was crazy with the bucket hat and I had my cards. I'm with you. I mean, which role, though? I didn't get rid of them. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. But I remember him stopping me like, yo, will you get that? And I was like, I made it. And when you say him, you took it. Tupac.

Okay, yeah. Gave the card. And so, and I don't know if that was the first or the second time, but we kept seeing each other to the point where... But your brand wasn't known yet when you meet him. It wasn't. I was still doing a lot of styling. Right.

And I was making suits at this time. I was doing something called the rough and rugged suit, which was like... I got that in my notes. Okay, yup, it was a heavy denim suit. Look, rough and rugged suit. Just so you know, just so you know, it's in my notes. On your job.

All right, cool, cool, go ahead. Yup, but this rough and rugged-rugged suit caught fire. So, like, crossover, you think about the video with EPMD. They went, like, all black with velour. Like, that was that suit, but then we started doing it in denim, and just a lot of people started wearing it. So that gave me the gumption to start walk-a-wear.

But Pac, it was me seeing him styling a lot of different people because we started styling a lot of people as well so how did so from the store from the store so what happened was what had happened was what had happened was we're at um the store this is still the 80s and we didn't have the internet. We didn't have anything. So word of mouth was incredible. So I remember Milk and Giz coming in, Light and Swatch told Milk, and he was doing his cover. Because that's brother and sister, right?

Yep, and they were like, I want a bookend. Wait, wait, wait. Milk and MC Light. Milk D. Milk and Giz, and Milk is MC Light's. Milk D. Milk and... Milk and Giz, and Milk is MC Lyte's sister? Brother? Yeah.

And then Shaggy, Sean Head. Yeah. Right? This is old school, but they're classic and they are legends in Brooklyn.

So Brooklyn was fine in Brooklyn. And then one day, little round kid, Biggie Smalls, 15 years old, he walked in. We had the airbrushing. We were doing airbrushing. We were doing acrylic fashion in effect. Now, Big was from my neighborhood, so I'd always see him on the corner coming out the train. We'd always nod, but I didn't know him. But this airbrush shirt stopped him came in the window found out he was you know his love was hip-hop he was big at the time he wasn't notorious he wasn't notorious okay he was still

like trying to get some not even been big yet he wasn't he was just rapping and he was like talking to me and real cool and that's that he supporting us, and that's how we built those relationships. So, from that, Milk came back. That's how I started finding out about styling. After we did that cover, he was like, can you guys style our video? And I was like, yeah. I didn't even know what styling was, but I was like, yeah. We get paid for it, too. So, we styled the video and, um... Don't tell me it's milky, it's chilling. Don't tell me that was that video. No, it wasn't that one.

All right, cool. But from that, I saw, wow, that's another revenue stream branch, and we needed them all. So I was like, we gonna start styling. And that's how we started styling. We did Shaq. We did everybody from Shaq to like,

with his videos, Foo Schnickens. Shaq Foo? Shaq Foo was everybody from Shaq to like with his videos, Foo Schnickens. Yeah, Shaq Foo. Shaq Foo was the name of his song? Yeah, Shaq Foo. Your man got nine. There's a lot of walk away in that. We did a lot.

We did LL Cool J's tour. We did like from one end of it to the other. All Naughty by Nature, I styled them for years. Run DMC. For years, people thought that run DMC and naughty by nature owned Walkerwear. Yeah. I was very ambiguous on purpose because I remember having a conversation with my father when I was first deciding I was going to go for it with Walkerwear. And I was like, I don't know if they'll accept

a woman making men's clothes. You know? And he was like, well, if you got a chance, then don't do it. Wow, so purposely you stayed in the background. Yeah, so I just was like,

let the product lead. Just make dope product, put it out there. Let that be the star. And let people rock it. Like, we never had never had official ambassadors. It was just love at that time with hip hop. Like hip hop was an energy feeds energy and we were all building and growing at that time. So it was just like, I believe in you, you believe in me, let's rock. But you were officially styling them, right?

I was styling some of them and then some I wasn't styling. But who was the first one to wear a walker wear? Who was the first, very first one? If we're giving they flowers right now. Very first one. That was famous. Come on. Or a couple of the first ones. Okay, so I would say Milk.

I would say Audio 2. I would say Sean Head and Shaggy. Damn, Sean Head and Shaggy. Let's make some noise for Sean Hedden. And then right after that, Pac and just like all the, you know, like, I gotta give it. This is Pac still digital underground. Digital.

I met him when he was a roadie and then he became that and then he kept going. Then when he did Above the Rim, he called and he was like, yo, I'm doing this movie. I want you to do the clothes for the movie. So I remember him.

I met him. And we went to the trailer. I met the costume designer, the costume wardrobe of Karen. And he was telling her, I want her to do all of this. She was like, she can't do everything. He was like, well, I want all black designers. So I got to do the camouflage outfit in that. That's Walker wear.

Right. And also that hook vest that's seen with him in the gray with the pants and the shirt. I did that. And then I was like, if you need more black designers, call 5001 Flavors. Troy. That's how they got in it. Troy. I was with Troy the other night before I came.

Oh, goddamn, make some noise for Troy. He said, what's up? Make some noise for Troy. Yo. I'm not going to lie. Like I said, I always thought y'all had it. I don't want to say like a given. I thought y'all had it made. I thought if you was a black designer,

you came with LL, you walk in with LL, and you just get a deal. Like, I don't walk away. You just had Tupac,L and you just get a deal. Like, don't walk away. You just had Tupac and you guys just had a deal. I had no idea of the struggle that you guys, I mean, researching you, like, it was bittersweet

because some of it, I cried and I was like, really? This is what black designers go through? And when you hear Kanye going on the ramp and you just be like kanye's like well you don't know what's going on and then and then you actually listen to the names that he was saying and you go back and research a little bit you like he has a point i had no i fucking dear yeah it's been it's been a journey for sure. Add putting a woman into that equation

and then being Blexican, black and Mexican, and not being... Are you black and Mexican or black and Puerto Rican? What's up? Shout out to us. Shout out to the tribe. Oh, shit, she said Blexican. I've never heard that term.

That is hard. Put it in the drink, champ. She's hardcore. So wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. Because I, before we get into the woman part, because we have to get into the woman part, right? But I just wanted you to describe

how hard it is for a designer. Period. Just period, yeah, first. And then I want to get into the designer and then being a woman. So just, okay, because this is us from the outside looking in. This is early before hip-hop fashion is even...

You got to realize, if we see it on video music box, we think it's it. Like, it doesn't matter if it's a headband, if it's a pouch. If we see it on video music box, we're saying these people made it. So starting your brand, first we had the store. The store was to keep people fresh. Then you started styling.

How much courage did it take to say, you know what? I don't want to be competing. Because I think you said you had a fashion show. And Jimmy Jazz, you were invited. You were normally invited. But that's a lot of courage. So how do you develop that courage to say, you know what? I'm going from styling to this is me, and I want to invite these people.

So I think that honestly I had a as I was naive to fear and I think my parents and I had a good support system. When I say that, I mean, I grew up my father was in the music industry.

Wow. So my father, I grew up as a jazz baby. He managed a lot of jazz greats like McCoy Tyner, Gary Barts. And then by the time I was a teenager, he started managing D-Train, jazz, Jay-Z, all these people my pops was working with. So I grew up watching him literally dance to his own beat. Okay, I think what you just said just went over my head. Did you just say jazz? Jazz-o.

Like jazz-o? I'll talk to you about jazz music. Okay, all right, cool. She went on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She just lost on us. It went over my head. No, no.

It went over my head. So my pops, right, we were in Brooklyn, and I used to hang in Marcy, and I heard about these kids that could rap their ass off. And, yeah, I gave my father his demo. And then they started. And we were all cool, you know. Because you also got Jay-Z in some walk-away.

That's how that all happened. You know what I mean? It was just like a family affair. And then Guru. Recipes. Yep. Moved in and was my next-door neighbor right there when he first came to Brooklyn from Boston. Uh-huh.

Wow. And so that's how we got cool. Premier, all of us, you know. Obviously, he wasn't Guru then. Yeah, he was Keith. Okay, he was Keith. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And, yeah, and so, and then context-wise, Keith lived, Easy Moby lived next door to me in the next building. Wow, this is crazy, man. So when Pac was doing that album, What kind of water was y'all drinking there? Because everybody was living there. What, a talented block? No, I'm giving you Clinton Hill.

Like, Rosie Perez lived on the next block. Really? And she still does, you know what I'm saying? Did she have that voice back then? We still, yep. Same voice? Cool to this day. Black and African-American. the next block. And she still does. You know what I'm saying? Did she have that voice back then? We still, yep. Same voice. Black and African.

So, like, the neighborhood was very creative. And we were all, like, on this, like, Voltron. Is this where Do the Right Thing was based out of? That area. Because Spike was right there, too. Wow.

This is crazy. This is crazy. Y'all should make a documentary about that neighborhood. Yeah, that neighborhood. Wesley lived over there. Wesley Snipes? Uh-huh.

I love how she called everybody by their first name. Yeah, you need first name. Wesley. Wesley? It was a special time. Right, right. Wow, woly, woly. But yeah, no.

Like, I wasn't trying to name drop, seriously. I was trying to give you context of like what was happening that energy but getting back to what you said, I think that um Yeah, it just was that time and It was special so this is this is commercial right? This is where I think Hip hop Took a turn in fashion. LL does his commercial.

For Gap, I believe it is. Yeah. But in Gap, he has a FUBU shirt on. Or was it a FUBU hat? I think the hat. The hat, yeah. So me as an outsider looking in, did that help the fashion industry what kind of message was that

when he did that because obviously you know especially now that you see gap doing business with kanye west but this was actually the first time we seen gap do business with people that look like us. But then the business they did that looked like us, he sent a message to us, whether it was the hat or the shirt, that we still for us, by us. Right. What kind of message did it send to the fashion industry?

And we had Damon and Ella talk about this with us. Yeah. I want to hear her. So I'm going to answer that first, and then I want to double back to how hard it was as a designer, because I don't think I gave that due justice, that answer, if that's cool. Oh, man, the message was so strong. It was everything. That commercial was everything. I remember the first time I saw it, I was like, yes, for the win for us.

Because you talk about how hard it was. We had to figure out ways to make something out of nothing. Every time. Because we didn't have the same dollars, marketing dollars, as Ralph Lauren, as Tommy Hilfiger. So we had to fit in the culture however we could get it. You're going to get it. You know what I mean? So that was brilliant to me.

And it was so clever because they let it happen. And they were so clueless to the culture that they didn't even... It was like graffiti. But they didn't know whoever did that ad.

I'm sure that commercial, they probably got fired after. But it was brilliant for FUBU. And it was just like such a message to the culture. Like, we're here, we're unapologetic, and the best, you know what I mean? It was so dope to me. Because that was, like, the first time that we actually felt like, because now people started to research FUBU, right?

You will see us. That's what that was. Regardless, you're going to get this work in a Gap ad or not. Right. So a lot of people started to realize at that very moment that rappers are not just brand ambassadors, just people that is promoting the product, but rappers are actually a part of the brand. Absolutely. An extension of the brand.

And if we have to talk about that, we cannot about that, we cannot say that, we can't say Fugu without LL. Right. Because he was, to me, the foundation. I still have their first ad with them in front of the house. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, like, LL got them to the point when the world knew about them. That Gap ad was a big part of it. You know what I mean? But, like, he pushed, and it's almost like a nod to the point when the world knew about them. That Gap ad was a big part of it. You know what I mean? But, like, he pushed. And it's almost like a nod to the culture, right? Right.

So it was, besides them having dope product, that's what it was. So you said that first ad, you said you still got the first FUBU ad. And what is that? They're all in front of, like, I don't know if it's Damon's or one of the, a queen's house. And they got them hanging out the car. And it's cool. or one of the, a queen's house. And they got hanging out the car and it's cool. And Elle was there too? Mm-hmm. Elle was there.

Man, listen, man. You gotta stop downplaying rappers' influences, man. We are. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella.

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and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So wait, you asked me about the designer. Let me just answer that real quick. It's hard as hell for a designer. And it's really hard because, it's hard because... Don't worry, it's really hard because it's hard because don't worry there's noise in my heart Brooklyn this is Brooklyn shit

she flinched that one time don't worry about it she's good she's used to it yes I am go ahead it's just period it's so competitive now it's way more competitive than when I started. When I started, there wasn't street wear.

There wasn't urban fashion. There was nothing. It was like going into the wild, wild west. Like, it wasn't there. So we were literally creating it, right, by trusting our instincts. I started, I reverse engineered into the business because I didn't have a blueprint I was literally

feeling hip hop and like listening to how we felt and expressing that and that's how my team was expressing it and that's what

translated into the clothing right but we couldn't go in a store and buy anything that looked like us that felt like us

at that moment it wasn't there yet and the poppin' stores was A&S at that time, right? A&S and May's. I'm old school. I'm too old school. May, you know about that. Okay. A&S. I used to get dipped in A&S. Look, niggas laughing

at me. Absolutely. A&S was like Macy's back then, you know? So it was... A&S was the first Macy's. It was. For real. It was. It was, you did.

Let's welcome Diego back out there. Let's make some noise for Diego. A&S, B. Altman's. I don't know if you remember B. Altman's. That was on 34th Street. That was like... That was like a Macy's, too. But yeah, so it was really hard.

And in the beginning, for us, it was really hard because nobody believed in hip hop. So the buyers were like, it's a fad, it's going to go away, it's not going to last. Why should we buy this? Why you have the lowest sweatsuits, it's expensive as Fila's, who are you? You know, like, so we had to constantly tell them,

no, it's going to last. We had to do tricks like, I can remember to get in the doors, we were like one of the first, Carl Canard, Cross Colors, Triple Five Soul, PNB, there are a few of us, you know what I mean? But we had to kick in those doors to open them up so that they became accepted and mainstream. And one of the tricks we did, I can remember. P&B was black owned too? They were like this, weren't they? They were black.

They have no tip. Black and brown. Yeah, black and brown. Black and brown. And Asian. Oh, yeah, I think they did. Asian too. Shout out to Shara and Brew.

Anyway, they, we had to really fight for that space we had to because it wasn't accepted like the music was making money but they thought it was going to go away they weren't believing in it yet so i remember going to def jam walking in one of the rooms funny story and it was a room full of interns i was working with def jam at this time doing a lot of styling and stuff and i came in the room it was all interns calling asking for a record to be played in these record stores like the record stores they wanted to break these records and a light bulb went off and so i went back to the office like find the top 10 stores in the top 10 cities. And every hood, every hood star find out where they're shopping right now. Like the Vinnie Styles of the world.

Wow, the Vinnie Styles. Exactly. So we found out, right, what the 10 cities we wanted to be in, the 10 cities we needed to be in. Let me call off top. Detroit was one of them? At that time, yeah. Detroit was one of them. Miami was not one of them. Chicago was one of them? At that time, yeah. Detroit was one of them.

Miami was not one of them. Chicago was one of them. Miami was just... Not then. Just take Miami out. Don't jerk us out. Not yet. Not yet.

Me neither. Me neither. All right, so... But we called them for like six months. Okay. And then we showed up with our little sweatsuits.

And they like, where you been? Everybody's been calling. We couldn't find you and stuff. The ones that didn't accept us, that when that didn't work, we say, let's put it in the window.

Look, we're going to leave six suits with you. Just put them, give us real estate. Put them, one in the window, put them in the front. Don't put us at the back.

Don't have to pay us. Don't pay us. This is what I'd like you to charge on consignment. We're going to come back in a week. If they don't sell, no harm done. Right. And then we would send six of our friends in that week to buy them. So it'd just blow out, right?

So between those two tricks, we built our market. Because once they sell, they believe in it. And they start selling it for you. But they got to believe in it. So, you know, that's some of the stuff we had to do. But we just had to create it. Create that magic. Just like hip-hop.

God damn, that's making noise. Let me ask you. Keep clapping. We had Grandmaster Kaz here, right? And he was talking about the commonality between punk rock and hip hop coming in. In the fashion side, I'm thinking it looks like the skateboarding world was doing urban fashion as well. Was there ever any? Yes. It was an intersection.

I think that people missed that part of it in the early 90s, the late 80s, like skate, surf. Right. And hip hop. Like, think about, I don't know if y'all remember OP, Ocean Pacific. Yeah, absolutely. Ocean Pacific? Yeah, we all rocked that. I went to Alexander and got Ocean Pacific.

So you know about it. Shout out to Alexander. Y'all niggas already have it. Yes, sir. That's where we had to go. Alexander, it, Alexander. Shout out to Alexander. Y'all niggas, we ain't have it. Yes, sir. That's where we had to go. Alexander, baby. Alexander, Queen's Cinema Mall, god damn it. The guy lives out here now.

The guy who started Ocean Pacific. The guy that started Ocean Pacific? I think his son's an artist now, but whatever. That's another story. That was one of those brands that like crossed it. Quicksilver, OP. Exactly. It was a lot of them.

And then it was this show called the ASR, right? ASR show was like the magic show. The magic show- Magic show. I got that in my notes too. Yeah. It's like a huge show that comes. Everybody from around the world comes to shop that has a store and buys for the next-

And the original one was in Vegas. In Vegas. Still in Vegas. And literally, the ASR show the original one was in Vegas. In Vegas. Still in Vegas. And literally, the ASR show was like this skate surf show. But then hip-hop was like, we need to be there too. So

because literally you could have on an Opie shirt and then you could have on your denim oversized shorts and then you'd have on your kicks. So it was just like mixing it all together. And everybody was vibing together. That's how the Lower East Side vibes were. Or, you know, Frisco, Oakland.

Like those, it was, that was the vibe. Now let me ask you a fashion tip. And then we're going to go to Quick Time with Slime. We're coming back to the Magic Show and then Vegas. Can you wear Nike with Adidas? Or is that a stuff of law?

I feel like... That don't feel right. It's old school. See, I'm old school so that doesn't feel right for me. You cannot do that. It's like, yeah, you gotta rock it all together. Yeah, that looks wrong. I'm just saying. I've been seeing a lot of our fashion and not all. But it all together. Yeah. That looks wrong, man. I'm just saying. I've been seeing a lot of our fashion and nottos. But it's no rules anymore.

Like, that's the thing. It's like no rules. Kanye clearly was the other day sitting there with Yeezy everything on and a Nike sock. That just bothered me. Yeah, for real? Yeah. I'm dead serious. We pulling up the picture.

We pulling up the picture. Yeah, that's not a good brand job. I won't even go to the gym like that. I'll be looking because I'm like, someone's going to take a picture of me with this fucking Puma sock on. It feels like you're set tripping or some shit. Hey, man, listen, that's fashion tripping.

That shit been way before set tripping. So you cannot do that. Let's just tell it to the young boys. Yeah. If you have on Nike top. If they're coming from my era, it was a no-no. Yeah, because they wildin' out here. They wildin'.

They wildin'. It depends on what you reppin'. Like, if you get money and you get a check from Adidas, or you get a check from Nike, keep it consistent. Okay, now let me just ask you this. That's on the lower end, Brad. Can you wear Louis with Goyard? You can mix it up.

Is that not racist? That sounds like a new segment. Is that not racist? I'm not asking for me. I love it. I'm not asking for me. I'm asking for somebody else. I gotta think about that one.

But just think about it. I think about that. Because this is true. I've seen people rock a Gucci belt. Right. Louis Vuitton hat. I mean, Louis Vuitton jacket. When did you do this?

Fendi hat. I might have did it once or twice. It might have been me. It might have been me. But I've seen people with peak offenders. I'm one. I made one felony. That was it.

People hate me because my Instagram, they're very negative people. So when I post shit, they're like, you got on the fucking Gucci belt? But I see people get away when it's designer. But if I do Adidas, if I got on Yeezys and I put on a Jordan hat,

they're talking about my mother. Really? You asshole. What are you doing? I think that might be more men like tripping on that. No, it's men. For sure.

It's probably people I know. Like, why are you doing this? But if they wear a Fendi hat with a Gucci belt, they could get away with it. Well, I was also going to say it depends. Is it like logo, logo, logo?

Because you can have on a Gucci shirt and nobody knows it's Gucci and then have a belt on that just brings, you know what I mean? And people like, there's one part

that's understated, another part is overstated, you know what I mean? You could do that. Like, less is more sometimes. I think you can mix it up where it's not all in your face.

The stylist and hers. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The stylist and her letting niggas get away with shit. Okay? Because I also heard you say that you thought that that was the person

that brung out the logos. Like when the logos actually came. So you can't really have a real Fendi and then Nike pants on with the same type of logos. That just bothers you, right?

It doesn't sit right with me. But can you tell the people that did it wrong? Keep it consistent. Go hard, right? Can you help us? Go hard. Go hard. I think that so it's hard to do that. That's like, what I should

say to you is it's like censorship, me saying that. Okay. For real, in fashion. Like if he walked in with walker wear headphones, walker wear t-shirt, and then hat on. And then hat on. No, but the shoes wouldn't matter at that point. Then he had on Carhartt shorts. No, Carhartt shorts you can get over there.

I like Carhartt shorts. Yeah, you cant shorts you can get over there. I like Carhartt shorts. Yeah, yeah, you can get away with it. Damn, I fucked up. I think I fucked up my analogy. I'm going to leave it alone. I'm going to leave it alone. It wasn't supposed to be. It wasn't meant to be.

It wasn't meant to be. I'll just move on, y'all. You was reaching. You was reaching. So now the magic show. Yep. The magic show was legendary. Now let me, actually,

talking, going kind of, it's kind of connected to the magic show, but asking about how things evolved for you guys. I had a store. That's how we met. I opened up a store with my partner, Eddie Giggs, called Crazy Goods here in Miami.

Because it was hard to get these brands. What year? 97. And even then, it was hard to get these brands. What year? 97. And even then, it was hard to get the brands down here. So we got, we had WooWare, Aniche. What were some of the other

brands we had? Echo was at that time when they came with the tapes. Who? Mecca. How about Esco? Esco. Yeah, so we was trying to get all that stuff. But this is the problem that we ran into, that retail wasn't really my passion. I was doing this to create a hub for hip-hop locally. Okay. But then I quickly found out I really don't like retail, because the only way they were selling to us was in packs.

Right. Bulk. Pre-packs. Like Costco. You had to buy in packs, pre-packs. A certain amount. Because we were young men with no credit. That's it. Retail credit.

And they were forcing us to buy these packs in order to carry these brands. And they were pre-packed. And then they were sending us all the stuff they couldn't sell that was usually sweaters and pants that were 45 ways

or whatever, 48 ways. And I was catering to high school kids at the time. There's dudes in there with 44 ways. It wasn't going to work. Don't be fat shaming, all right? We lasted until about 2000 until finally the department stores locally started buying. And then that made it even worse because then they brought down the price.

And we had to hike up the price because of the packs. So did you guys know that that was happening? Oh, yeah. price because of the packs you know so did you guys know that that was happening oh yeah and was it a because it almost felt to us like man do these brands not know that we're all the culture here let's let's win so basically what you're saying in a in a in a smaller shell is walk away was priced at one price in new york city but when it came to the south no no no that's not what i'm saying it made it hard for a small boutique hip-hop clothing store to be in business, is what I'm saying. This is good, by the way.

Shout out Organic Food Kings. Organic Food Kings, god damn. Shout out to them. It's all vegan people. Yeah, it's good. What was your thinking knowing that that was going on? So let me explain the back end of that because I definitely feel your pain. For us, being young designers, being a designer, period, we needed to pay our bills, right?

So black and brown designers, here's another challenge we have. There's something called minimums when you produce in fashion at the factories. And the minimums then weren't low. Just like when you go to buy a house, sometimes black and brown have to pay more. So same thing, like if you want to be in this business, we need 1,200 units per color in your order.

We have to sell into that. And when you are ordering like I want one small, I want three mediums. I want it's very hard for us to do business with the factories that way. So we have to buy and bolt and then we have to do our homework in the map. We got to look at the averages around the country and say mediums and larges are selling the most. Smalls are selling the least. Double Xs are selling. This was the business, not just us. It's everybody, right?

Right. not just us, it's everybody, right? So you put... You put together your side scale and say, this is how I think my hood is going to buy, my customer. And then you say, I need to get $2,500 in a minimum order if you want to play. Because if it's not that... Because here's what was happening on our end.

Like, I'll give you an example. I had a distribution almost deal a few times. One was with Threads for Life with Cross Colors. One was with USA Classics, which they had Everlast, Dance Skin, Fat Farm, all these people. But when you deal with them, they want big numbers.

It's just like the record and, you know, distribution. Big numbers meaning like sales? They want you to sell. Okay, okay. Now, I'm doing a dance because it's not independent totally anymore, right?

I got to make them happy, but at the same time, I'm not whoring my brand. I don't want it in 10 stores on every block. So I'm going to make sure that if I'm going to build with you in your store, I'm treating you right you right but you're gonna be exclusive in your hood but now you got

to buy into my business and you got to build with me right invest um and that's the only way it's going to be sustainable now i have to have a conversation with the retailer because he doesn't want to sell you he wants to sell the guy down the block that can do bigger numbers because that's all they care about. And I have to be like, nah, he's official. We're going to go with this guy. So we had to have minimums to pay bills. And then on the other side, often my business was percentage. So I took a loss, a certain percentage, knowing I was going to take a loss.

Because dudes were buying off their credit cards or doing COD at that time. percentage. So I took a loss, a certain percentage, knowing I was going to take a loss because dudes were buying off their credit cards or doing COD at that time. And a lot of people was just luck, you know, like I'm investing in the hood, like they're investing in me. I pray they pay their bills. But sometimes a lot of the times that came back, they, they bounced them and stuff like that. So that caught, that's cost of business, you know? So I had to write that off, but just keep trust in the hood and then fight with the dudes that were the distributors. So all that stuff was happening. That's the business.

Yeah. So I was watching a documentary, right? I seen Misa talk about times where she styled a person and then they took the style from her and didn't call her back right and didn't when it came time for so i'll have to ask you the same thing it was at a time you styled the artist and the artist blew up and then it came time for them to like show love back and say you know what i'm doing this shoot in paris and and i you, but I'm going to hire Pepe Le Pew.

Yeah, I'm sure they were. I'm sure they were. Because you're not drinking, so usually this is an easy question. Yeah. Someone would say, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so-and-so. Nah, I can't say, like, per se,

because I did have a lot of love when it came to the tribe but I walked away at the height of what was perceived success for a minute that's my next question yeah so I didn't really have that problem per se I think that um it was more problems like honestly being a woman in a man's world sometimes not getting paid like trying not to pay me. And I had to put that ugly head down to make sure I got paid. You know what I mean? Stuff like that.

But no one actually fronted on you when they... I never got fronted on in that way because we leaned out of the styling and really focused on the business of walk-a-wear after a while and did more of that than anything. Like nobody gave walk-a-wear to, and then they blew up afterwards and then didn't. Nobody gave walk-a-wear to, and then they blew up afterwards and then didn't want to wear walk-a-wear anymore?

Oh, I'm sure that happened. I mean, because this time around, it's a lot harder than it was last time. So when you asked before about designers then and designers now, there are a lot more designers, and we're living in the age of technology, and so it's ADD.

And a lot of times the last thing you see is what you love it's not like um loyalty anymore you know where i came up in loyalty in a different time of like brands meaning something of substance i think you got fashion over you got all this disposable clothing um you know like, that for us, by us was real. Right. It's a different time now, like, in terms of the thought process of, like, I want to, I see you. I'm going to rep my people.

You know, I don't see that so much anymore. You know, I think we were trending last year. Right. But I think it's going back to business as usual. So, you know, I see it, you know. Last year was our best year yet. We had a killer year. In design, and I see it, you know. Last year was our best year yet. We had a killer year. In design.

In walk-away, you know. But I just think that I want to see how sustainable that is for us. Right. Us, you know what I mean? Like, in terms of black and brown designers. Now, you had, like, what we like to call the Dave Chappelle syndrome. Meaning you walked away at your height.

A lot of people don't understand that. I was hanging with Dave Chappelle the other day and I would never ask him this. He'll just voluntarily say man I just wanted to leave. I was looking at him because I was such a fan of what he was doing.

I don't want to ask, like, why the fuck would you walk away or why would you do that? But I got you here. So, because that was the rumor. Like, why would she walk away? The company is doing great. Clothing is selling. You know, why did you walk away when you walked away

from walking away? I think that I came up, I started in this business right when it was, I was 21 when I started with Fashion Interfect. Wow. So I was still a junior

in college and I literally... You still look 21, by the way. Let's make some noise for that. Thank you. I'll take that today. Continue, continue I literally... You still look 21, by the way. Just make some noise for that. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that today.

Continue, continue. All right, I'll take that. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But I started at 21, and it was just me falling in love with hip-hop, literally. And knowing I didn't want to work for someone else, right? And then I found something that I was like, I can definitely... I was a a hustler so I knew how to

I'm elongating this but I want you to answer this question but was there any other women inspirations that owned that company at that time yeah it wasn't okay so all right so so now forward, I watched it become this multi-billion dollar business, and I watched a lot of designers get screwed over. Right. I've met with a lot of designers. I always say, hold your trademarks. Those are your masters, right?

Wow. But a lot of people didn't understand it. Killed that. Make her an orc, yeah. Yeah. that. Let's make her noise for that. I got sometimes if you are in love with something and you

get to see the inside navigations of it, you can fall out of love. And the fashion business mirrored the music business. So to give you context, in the 90s, all the black music label divisions

started closing up. You remember that? Yeah. Yeah, I do. And shortly after that, they started saying urban fashion was going to be dead, the decline of urban fashion. I saw the writing on the wall.

I started telling everybody. I had something called Alliance of Minority Designers where I brought us all together. Like, I'm buying 10,000 yards. You're buying 10,000 yards. Let's buy it together. Let's build. Y'all should thread?

Yeah, for like denim or whatever. Just this power together. Like, if we do this together, we will be the industry because we will all get in it. But I think early 20s, no one, it was ADD without the internet. You know what I'm saying? They at the bar like, let's live, you know?

So fast forward, 99, 98, this is after Mike wore my stuff in the ring. Like it was at the height of... You got to slow down. When you say Mike, you got to talk about Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson. Yeah, because our viewers are a little crazy. All right, they're just thinking regular Mike from PS13.

Sorry. Let's just make you know what Mike Tyson's talking about. It's going to continue. Continue. It was all these moments that led up to this space, but I felt very heavy. It was all about the business. I was watching...

That sounds like Dave Chappelle. It was a lot. It was a lot. When you seen Dave Chappelle walk away, did you relate to that? I related all, everything. I related everything. Like, it was, everyone was congratulating me, and you can't even understand this but

literally it's gonna sound crazy but the seasons were changing and I wasn't even seeing that because I was so focused and so like stressed on what was ahead that I wasn't seeing I wasn't even I could see you and not see you. Wow. But it wasn't me being flaky or stuck up, it was just that my mind is somewhere else, you know what I mean? And I had to catch myself like, everyone's congratulating me, but I feel like shit,

I had a New York showroom, a LA, and a Vegas showroom, and I'm traveling all the time, everything's, it was all over the place. And I wasn't being creative, number one. I went to Magic. It looked like a shit show. It was just like a circus. Everybody trying to get free product.

It was just who could have a bigger booth? No disrespect to everybody, but it just became this big marketing vehicle of like who had the biggest guns but we weren't doing business anymore and I saw the decline coming because I'd already seen what was happening in black music. It was just a ripple effect

because fashion and music are the two biggest forms of inspiration and for us, it's our culture. So I knew what was coming. I just was like, I'm out. You know what I mean? I chose me. That's literally what happened because

I was almost afraid to walk away at that point. Wow. Wow. Because I was so attached at that moment to walk away. It's like, when I feel like it's like that, it's time to walk away. So let me ask you, bouncing around.

Did someone come and buy the brand? No, I owned it. I owned all the equity in it. I just shelved it to take my USAP. And the way that you describe magic is the way that the conferences team, the music conferences started to turn into. Yeah. How hard is it to get into magic?

So magic, you buy a booth. It's an approval process. You buy a booth. Like the Grammys almost. It's your Grammys. Yeah, okay. You know what I mean? And you come.

And I remember the first time we did it, we didn't even have a... They didn't put us on the floor because there was no streetwear or anything. It was just like, we don't know where to put you. So it was myself, it was Carl Canine, and it was Cross Colors. And they gave us a

conference room right outside of it. And we made a booth. We made a booth that was a jail cell. And we sent out invites that said, come serve your sentence. And we invited all the buyers and they all came. You, Carl Canine, and Cross your sentence. And we invited all the buyers, and they all came. You called Canine Crosscutters.

That's the hook. We each did like two million at that show, and then we were on the floor after that. That was like when it first started. So let me ask you, was there other black designers on the floor that wasn't y'all, but black designers that wasn't hip-hop?

Right. I have no idea. I can't even confirm that. Okay. Okay, all right. That's cool. That's cool. I'm just trying to picture

this is a movie. But what I can confirm is it felt like you could hear a pin drop at Magic at that point. When y'all stepped through? It was like, no disrespect,

used car salesman, a table, quiet. Here's a shirt. Here's a jacket. You know, it was quiet. It was very Wonder Bread. Wow. And was FUBU bigger at that time?

FUBU wasn't out yet. FUBU wasn't even out. They weren't there yet. Holy moly. I remember when they first were starting, they came, like, I met with them, yeah. Wow. Oh, they was coming to you? Yep, before they started.

Holy moly. Puffy, bad boy. Like, a lot of people came and talked when they were starting. When they started, they was coming to you? Yep, before they started. Holy moly. Puffy, bad boy. Like, a lot of people came and talked when they were starting. When they started their company. Okay, how about Rock-A-Wear? Rock-A-Wear, Dame. Matter of fact, I told, yeah, Dame and me talked a lot. And when he tried to do it himself, I remember when they were, was it John Street?

They were downtown. They had an office downtown, and he decided he wasn't going to do it his own, but he bought, like, seven machines, and he called me, like, yo, you want these seven machines? Like, I'm not going to do it myself. I came and got them, and yeah. Deb, hold on. You took the machines off his hands?

Yeah, I took them. Like, he was like, I can't do this myself. You know, like, I guess he tried. Wait a minute. For a kid that is... Clueless, right? Clueless, that wants to start fashion. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Are you saying you guys could literally have your own machines and make your own clothes yourself? That's right. Get the fuck out of here! I never really kind of... I always thought you guys would make a T-shirt or something and send everything else to China.

Well, you can do that too, but when we started, literally we started out of our, I started out of my house before I had this store. And literally I made my own cutting table. I was not sewing,

but I was designing. And then success leaves clues. So I had borrowed some Adapts tailors. Wow. And some other people that I knew. Bell had people uptown in Harlem and people that were doing it, doing what we loved. And I was like, that's the formula right there. So come over here.

This is how I want to design this is what I want to do can you make it so we bought the fabric we were the creative directors and the designers and then we we set up the tables we bought the machines we could see what everybody had from jukies to singers

and we got busy she said success leaves clues yo look but hip hop we thought we made our own music, sold our own tapes. That's the real fucking shit. You can cut your own shit. Sell it. Go take them six-floor suits, consignment, make it real. Okay.

First of all, let's make some noise for that. Let's make some noise for that. Let's make some noise for that. What were the five hottest spots in New York City at that time when you wanted to get your clothes? Just the five. It doesn't have to be the five boroughs. Right. Just the five spots? Just the five.

Hmm. Simons was one. Simons? Simons was one for us. Where was Simons at? Simons was on Belmont in Brownsville. Okay, I definitely ain't go there.

Okay, Simon's was one. Was he going to Brownsville back then? Dr. J's back in the day. Dr. J's was his spot. Wow, okay. I would say before that,

even A.J. Lester's uptown. Okay, A.J. Lester heard of that. It was where else were we shopping? even AJ Lester's Uptown. Okay, AJ Lester heard of that. It was... Where else were we shopping, Shonda? Nah, that wasn't even out yet, though.

Dr. J's. Like, there weren't a lot of hot spots in Brooklyn to me. Like, we would... New York City, period. You were going to Macy's. You were going to A&S. You said a lot of them. Shirt Kings. Yeah, Shirt Kings. Oh, we would... New York City period. You were going to Macy's. You were going to A&S. You said a lot of them.

Oh, you mean stores. It could be anywhere. I would say Miguel. I would say Miguel Navarro. Shout out to Miguel. He was super dope. So, Jesus, Kendu, Rasan. He made clothes for all of them. Kendu, Rasan. Why do you know this name?

I thought these would sell mixtapes. They were in Brooklyn, out of Brooklyn were to sell mixtapes the kind of they were in brooklyn out of brooklyn kind of mixtapes um cool you know but they were legends in new york city and um and when you think about them peter shu you know all those guys we made clothes for all of them and then um and and miguel was one i made clothes um I would say Carl, his shop was a dope spot. Carl Canai, we talked about that. Carl Canai. Shirt Kings, definitely.

There was Belle Uptown. Shout out to Belle. And then there was Dab and Dan, of course. God damn it. God damn it. Let's make some noise for that. And this is a part of our show where we play a game. It's called Quick Time with Slime.

You are not drinking, so... Might as well pick Sonny. Yeah, so you can pick someone out of the crowd, and you can pick them, and they'll drink for you. Okay. So we're going to give you multiple choice. Wait, let's pick the person.

Who's he? What's up, Lisa? Are these not shot glasses? Listen, even though these two guys right there, which one you feel? You know what? You can alternate. OK. In shot, you can be like, I feel like the Peruvian wrestler

deserves it. Where's the shot glasses? Because we're going to take shots with her, right? Because she's not taking the shots, but we're going to take shots with her. And you could Because she's not taking a shot but we're going to take a shot with her. And you could be totally completely correct, you could say both. But when you say both that means that they drink,

one of them drink. Yeah, both or neither? Both or either. You could look and say... You could say both of them drink or you could say just him drink because you could not like them, it's okay. It's okay.

So, you asked me the question? I asked you the question, and then you can do whatever you gotta do. Okay, are we ready? So if I'm answering it, just answer the question? If you answer both, then they drink. Okay. Or if you say neither, then they drink.

Okay. Okay? I say both every time. No, no, Sonny, Sonny, come on camera, bro. Yeah, yeah, come on camera, come on. You're a part of the show now, is that good? You too, no, Sonny, Sonny. Come on camera, bro. Yeah, yeah, come on camera. You're a part of the show now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You too, Boris.

Come on. I know the first one that you should make them both drink. I'm just being honest. OK. But I don't want to... But we got a drink too, so relax. Oh, fuck. I forgot.

I forgot. Because, yeah, because we're holding you down. Make your shot. All right, where's my Ciroc? Summer Coolada. Where the Summer Coolada at? All right. All right, cool. But Ciroc? Summer Coulada. Where the Summer Coulada at?

All right. All right, cool. But I'm pretty sure you're going to make them both drink and us drink for this shot. But I could be wrong. Okay. Everybody, hoite. Come on. Hoite.

Nas or Jay-Z? Oh. There we go, right there. That's my type of play. Okay, you do it. Come on. Let's do it. I need one, too.

Yeah, it's hot as fuck. You're driving me home. Relax. Right? Okay. All right. Dale Cabron to motherfucking April Walker. God damn it. I knew she was going to play the game. All right, dale, cabron. To motherfucking April Walker, god damn it.

I knew she was going to play the game. Even though I knew she wasn't going to drink, I knew she was going to play the game. Okay, the correct way. Respect or loyalty? I say respect because with respect you get loyalty. DMX or Tupac? I love, that's a hard one, man.

You ain't even got to do it. You can just have both of these bozo dudes take a shot. Hey, we're taking a shot too. Oh my God, I'm in there. We'll have us bozos. We can have four bozos. If you want. Okay, so I love both, but I'm going there. We'll have us bozos. We can have four bozos. If you want. Okay, so I love both, but I'm going to have to go with pop.

Okay. Okay. All right. Miami or L.A.? Both. Okay. There you go. Goddamn. There you go, goddamn.

I'm in. Cheers, cheers, cheers. I'm in. Take a shot, boys. Oh, man. This marijuana's not tasting. Oh, you're smoking that marijuana, cheers, cheers. I'm in. Take a shot, boys. Oh, man, this Mama Juana's not tasting good. Oh, it's hitting that marijuana, huh? Okay. Shout out Mama Juana, kids.

Okay. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your gut microbiome and those healthy bacteria can actually have positive effects throughout your body, not just your gut, but your mental actually have positive effects throughout your body, not just your gut, but your mental health, your metabolism, your immunity, your risk of

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Listen to Dope Labs on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild-haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious.

Somebody violated the FBI, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. The FBI went around to all their neighbors and said to them, do you think these people are good Americans? It's got heists, tragedy, a trial of the century, and the goddamnedest love story you've ever heard. I picked up the phone and my thought was, this is the most important phone call I'll ever make in my life. I couldn't believe it.

I mean, Brendan, it was divine intervention. You can now binge all 10 episodes of Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution.

But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 90s or 2000 hip hop 90s

I respect that Pharrell or Kanye West Pharrell I'm about to take a shot because of how confident she was I respect that I respect that I don't even want to know why

okay I respect that. I respect that. I don't even want to know why. Okay. This is a new question. They added this. Kanye sneakers or Pharrell sneakers? It is a twist. It is a twist. Could be neither. Can I say neither?

Yeah, yeah. But we got to drink. All right, neither. She said neither? Neither. Holy shit. This is a fashion out on this yard. Shit! Oh, shit.

Oh, shit. I'm old school. I got on Sam Smith. Uh-uh. Sam Smith is Adidas. That's right. Okay, all right. Okay.

You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. You guys are assholes. That's right. Okay. All right. Okay. You guys are assholes. Okay. 80s clothing versus 90s clothing.

That's kind of hard. First 90s clothing Both well, I mean my shot is already poured Boris Boris Boris man, come on this whole time you ever shot You take a shot like What are you doing? You're a lead driver right now. Relax. You don't let her down? You taking shots. Look, he not drinking. He not drinking. Who, Boris?

Oh, he's got to drive? Yeah, he's driving. Oh, shit, I forgot. Sonny, that means you got to take double. You didn't drive, right? Or did you? I'm driving either way. All right, cool.

All right. Well, take your shot, goddammit. Take your shot. I'm taking the two. Little, little. I'm taking the two. No, Sonny took an Uber, man. Relax. All right, cool. All right. Well, take your shot, goddammit. Take your shot. I'm taking the two. I'm taking the two. Nah, Sonny took an Uber, man.

Relax. All right, cool. Of course. I'm responsible. OK. I don't know where you're going to go with this. This one I'm very, very curious. One, because you're a hip hop aficionado.

And two, because you're a woman. We ask this to a lot of men. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Cardi B or Nicki Minaj? Cardi. You said that very fast and very confident. I'm going to have to ask why on this one.

Because I'm looking at the whole vibe. And I think that Cardi, we look at what she's accomplished as a businesswoman. Whew. Fierce. Okay. This one, I don't know where you're going. Puff Daddy or Dr. Dre? Shot? We in. Puff Daddy or Dr. Dre? Shot?

We in. If you want to go shot. In what way? No, it's whatever the criteria in your mind. The same way you've been picking them all. It's whatever it is in your mind that makes you go either way. I would have to say from a music standpoint. Whatever standpoint you standpoint, I'm going to go with Dre. From a business standpoint, both. That sounds like a shot to me.

She picked, man. I ain't drinking nothing. All right, cool. I'll have one for later. Let's go. Cheers. Cheers. Okay, podcast or radio?

Podcast. I think I'm taking a shot for that as well. Come on, let's go. Okay, podcast or radio? Podcast. I think I'm taking a shot for that as well. Come on, Gunther. That's your problem. Let's go with this. Come on. Come on. Come on, we in this together, baby.

Come on. Let's do it. Salud. Ooh, that one was a little harsh. You get to be so much... Free in podcast, yes. Yeah, you really get to know people. Okay.

Major or independent? Independent. He just smiles every time someone says independent. Like, even if he doesn't smile, just look at his face. He smiles. Now you're talking about me. He smiles. He just goes like this.

I just think if you can survive independently and own everything. That's it. What I tell them, it's nothing against anything major, but if you own and you can survive independently, then you can take advantage if you go to a major, but you can still maintain ownership of something.

Absolutely. If you go first, then you lose ownership. I don't disagree with them. What I do believe is still own your brand, but use that major marketing money. Right, but that's not

usually how it happens. If you can accomplish both, both. The nice part about ownership is legacy. And that legacy you can pass on to your kids, your grandkids, and that's annuity growth and wealth. God damn it. Listen, I'm for sure. I don't know what you're going to say on this one.

I thought I was for sure, but I don't know what you're going to say on this one. What? I thought I was for sure, but I don't. Queen Latifah or MC Lyte? Both. I'm for sure. I knew she was going to say that. I was for sure, but I didn't want to say that because I didn't want to look stupid. But I was for sure. I said it, sirs.

I said I was for sure. I was for sure. I got damn it. I'm going to be loose in carbones tonight. God damn it. Yeah, I said it first. I said it for sure. I need some friends. For sure. I got damn it. Cheers, Paco. I'm going to be loose in carbones tonight. God damn it. Yeah, I'm ready. You got to let Boris take out at least one, man. He could take a shot.

One shot only. Let him take one shot, god damn it. I was in Light's one of her first videos. Light is a rock? Paper 10. Paper 10? Wow. Because what you tell me is just paper thin.

That. On the train. Woo! What a classic. Classic. We need them both on here, man. Light and Latifah. Yeah, man.

Yeah, that would be dope. We love that. Got to get them on. Yeah. OK. I'm going to let you get away with this. But if Misa calls me, I'm calling you because... Groovy, Lou, or Misa?

Oh, you're wrong on that one. I'm going to go with both. The reason why I'm going to let you get away with that, but I feel like Misa taught Groovy. Am I inaccurate with that? I feel like Misa taught Groovy. Am I inaccurate with that? I'm not sure. Groovy's been in the game for a long time. A long time.

Groovy been in the game for a long time. I'm so sorry, Groovy. Please don't text me. Please don't text me with some bullshit. Groovy's been in the game a long time but he's definitely taking note for the greats but he's been in... Groovy did one of my first campaigns like way back. Really? Yeah, he's been in the game for a long time. What year are we talking? That might have been in like 91, 92.

Okay, my bad, Groovy. I did not know. I'm taking a shot for not knowing. For a long time. She said both anyway. She said both anyway, so I'm taking a shot for that. Holy shit. Dale Chanchi. All right, Dale Ch Holy shit. That was a good one, though.

That's that summer watermelon, by the way. All right, listen. I just want both of these people to know that we love them both. We just always ask this question because I feel like they both a little mad at me if we keep asking this question. Go foxy a little, Kim. Get my shot ready.

Yeah, that's for me, it would be... I'm going to say both. Okay, April. I love Kim, though. I'm gonna say I love Kim. Kim's from my neighborhood, and so is Foxy. And so what they represent to the culture is priceless, and they both could spit fire, so I can't choose.

That is the greatest choice ever. Come on. And they can't be mad at the... Hey, did you drink yours, buddy? Oh, shit. I tried to cheat this one. Relax, man. All right. Biggie or big punt?

Big. I respect that. Here's where I don't know where you're going to go. Okay. I think we should do a drum roll. Call Kanaa a fool. I think we should do a drum roll. Carl Kaniyia or Fubu? I have to go with Carl because without Carl, it wouldn't be Fubu. I knew that answer.

I knew that answer. Cross colors. Cross Colors or Mecca? I got to go with Mecca because Tony Shellman was my first sales guy that started Mecca. And he started with me. And Tony helped me get them sales out there in a huge way. These guys are doing a huge way. These guys are doing a great job. These guys are doing a great job. Look, he's wearing his glasses.

He's fashionable today. No, listen, I wouldn't put cross colors against damage. All right, I know this is, we still quick time aside, but was Paco good? Paco? Paco? I liked Paco. Paco was, your homegirl just killed it. Your homegirl face.

Listen, and she got her mask on. And I can still see her face. Just so disgusted when I said Paco. Paco had some fly stuff, though, too. I thought Paco was fly. They had some fly stuff. But I also wore damage, too, so I'm with the roster. But I wore damage, too. So, you know,

Hughes definitely. Hughes. Hughes was out them, too. So, you know, used, definitely. Used. Used was out there, too. It was so many. It was. Okay, all right. I don't know what you're doing to the life. Your friend just hurt my whole childhood.

I like popcorn. I didn't own it, but I did like it. All right, what do we got? Tapa Dan or Virgin? Dan. Without Dan, there would be nothing else. I respect that.

They went a little crazy with this one. Barassity or Bahamadia? That's hard. I'm going to go. Get it ready. Let's get it ready. Let's get the shot ready.

Shout out to both of them. Okay. They both fire. Yeah. All right, cool. We're taking the shot too, right? We're not just holding it. That's your job.

All right, good. Salud. Who are you going to shout at? We don't see the shot. It's okay. I don't mind. We're going to waste it. We're just going to do it.

Okay. Last, last one. Mobb Deep or M.O.P.? Mobb Deep. I thought she was going to go Brooklyn with it. Yeah, but I'm just, Mobb Deep got like one of my anthems. What is that? Well, I love Shook Ones. Shook Ones.

You know that's the project stole from Cook and Crack. Yeah, that. That is it. That is the Shook Ones beat. He told us it. No, that is from Cook and Crack, sir. Yeah, he told us. Yeah, let's make some noise for Cook and Crack.

He didn't tell us the Cook and Crack part. Did he tell us the Cook and Crack part? I don't know if he told us that. Listen, I know. He told us the Stole part. The Stole, hey, man. Coming in the game, Altam us that. Listen, I know. He told us the story. The story, amen. Coming in the game, what's the model?

Go on, go on. We got to ask. You know, we do our due diligence. Just like every other guest, we have to Google, we have to understand. And one thing that kept popping up was the virgin thing.

I did not know. I did not know. I did not understand. And as I dug in further, I didn't want to dig because I said, you know what, we got the queen here. Let me not do,

you know, internet gossip shit. Let me ask her directly. Okay. What is the discrepancy between you and Virgil? If there is any. The discrepancy is a varsity jacket. Okay.

That he put out. That has two W's on it. Wait, wait. It's a big. He's selling it. It's selling a lot. And he sold a lot of them and I actually saw it

first through Carlos Classic Material which is my dog and he sent me Carlos Modernado let's pick up Carlos Modernado

okay so Carlos DM'd me like yo what is this and it was a Saks ad so what was his two W And it was a Saks ad. So what was it?

And the Saks ad is a varsity with the two W's. But the two W's look just a reflection of this WW athletic mark that I've used since 93. Like, that's when I said Mike Tyson wore in the ring. We just did a run. We dropped it for Christmas. Put the pictures to the side. In Christmas, I think, we sold out in two days. It was a moment in time.

We do these drops where we talk about Mike Tyson. Remember at the end of last year, Mike Tyson did that fight? Yeah. We sold out at that same time. We've been selling it um continually and after it happened it went kind of viral this was women's history month and black history month and people were talking about it um so I know well let's say allegedly I believe through different people in the culture that was saying, like, nothing.

So finally, I had to talk to some lawyers that reached out to try to settle this amicably. Because I'm... Because I don't want to... I never would want to even do that, you know? But I have to protect our trademarks, our masters. And remember the point, because I remember there was one year that Gucci came out with the puff thing.

Was that something... Did you feel like that when you saw his? Yeah, with Dap and Den, when everybody went crazy. I believe Dap did Louis Vuitton, but Gucci actually did it over, and he got no credit. But that's how you got his deal because black Twitter came for them.

You know, and so I will say I also believe the only thing worse than racism in this country is sexism. And I say that because I didn't have half of that rallying with that support. It's just things you notice as a woman. No disrespect, because wrong is wrong. I'm so happy DAP got that. And for me, you just heard it, I'm an indie. So I'm not doing this to get a collab. It's about protecting what's yours and what you've built up over the last three decades

you know so for me it's not okay um when you think about starbucks when you think about you think about different brands that are iconic they're iconic for a reason we're an iconic brand to think because you put stripes here it's gonna make it different if my customers are confused and congratulating me and saying dope collab or you're in sacks so they were thinking a lot of my customers were getting confused and tribe so that's clearly the arrogance of another brand saying we can do that and people won't notice. And how dare you when we're an established brand just like a lot of the other iconic brands. So I just really wanted to also stand up and protect black and brown creatives.

Because like you said, it's not a first it happened to dapper dan it's happened to a lot tyler perez just this happened to him it happened to so many instances down there like you you heard in the remix when they were kidding about misa and fendi and you know it keeps happening. Oh, with Big Daddy Cane Water. Uh-huh. We just can't let... It's happened more now with technology where you see these drive-bys take place

with independent designers and they just take, make, regurgitate and sell our magic back to us. And we just allow it. So I think a lot of designers think they'll be outgunned because they know they can't stand up in legal proceedings. You know, they can't. It's too expensive.

So they're banking on that, you know, that they can get away with it. So I just, I'm hoping that this case is taking a stand for all of us, not just me. So let me ask you, did you know Virgil prior to this? No. You never met him? Never met him. Wow. Never met him.

Because it seems like something that's, like, so easy to fix. I agree. Wow. I agree. Maybe this could help fix it. And I was hoping that we could. You know, my lawyers reached out, but they reached out to them, they reached out to Saks, and from my understanding, but they reached out to them. They reached out to Saks.

And from my understanding, they didn't want to stop selling it. And this was off-white or this was Louis Vuitton? Off-white. It was off-white. So that's a Louis Vuitton. Separate. Okay. Yeah, we need to put the pictures.

We need to put the pictures. And I think that just from a standpoint like when there's confusion that's where the problem is and you're saying this is not the route that you wanted to go yeah i mean i would have never liked to get it to this point but at the same time i'm not just gonna lay down absolutely yeah no you should make some noise for you about that but black and brown creators let me just say this. Yes. Like, that's the trajectory of my work, like, for us,

in terms of paying it forward. And you're literally black and brown. Yeah. Literally. Yeah, me too. So there you go. Give it up. Give it up.

Give it up. Give it up. Give it up. Give it up. I'm mixed. So, no, that's what we do. Like, so, like, I do a lot of educational work. I mentor and reverse mentorship.

I'm big into mentorship and reverse mentorship. I surround myself by a lot of younger designers. And they're looking at me. They're looking at... I want them not to be afraid to do what's right. You know, and at the same time, this is how we grow. Right.

And in that, like VidSig, I'm working with VidSig. I don't know if you've heard of VidSig. No, what's that? It's a new platform where you can connect one-on-one and search is on there. Oh, search hit me today. Shout out to search for connecting us. Right, yeah, yeahone. And Search is on there. Oh, Search hit me today.

Shout out to Search for connecting us. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Search is on there. He actually introduced me. He's working with them. But I'm working with them. That's one of the platforms. You know what's funny about Search?

Search hits you and be like, yo, this is Search. Like, you're locked in, buddy. He still introduces himself. Right. Like, this is 2021. Like, you can't, you know, back in the days. That's old school. Yeah, he like, yo. Like, this is 2021. Like, you can't... You know, back in the days, like... That's old school.

Yeah, he like, yo, yo, this is Serge. Like, wait a minute. You do not know we have something called contact lock? We know who you are, Serge. Relax. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

No, I get it. He hit me today, and he introduced himself again. I said... He's being polite, bro. No, that, I get it. He hit me today, and he introduced himself again. I said, he's being polite, bro. No, that's old school shit. She knows that's old school shit. Come on, let's do that. So, okay, let me ask you something. Mm-hmm.

Has anybody ever rocked your clothes in a way where you said, this dude is a buffulio? Because it's about how you rock it now. Right. You give us four the same clothes, it's going to be about two of us that rock it the wrong way.

Okay. So have you ever had somebody rock it where you was like, rock it, don't stop it. No, I've never had that because to be honest, we work with artists that... That got style.

That had style or that had... So I think that brands, if you're lucky enough, you choose to work with artists that are in alignment with your value system. And so, like, Pac, Biggie, Naughty by Nature, EPMD, all those guys were in alignment with what we stood for, you know. There were times when we had to turn

down artists. Like who? Rumpelstiltskin and them niggas needed some clothes and you said, fuck them. Actually, we did the album cover, so no, they weren't one. I was playing around. I was playing around. No, no, that's a real group.

It's a real group. Yeah, they were dope. They were dope. They were dope. They were dope. I was playing around. I was playing around. I was playing around.

They were dope. I was playing around. I was playing around. I got the album. I did not know this group was this good. I did not know. No, definitely, yeah. I was playing around.

OK, I'm sorry. What was the group? I'm blanking out with did not know. No, definitely, yeah. I was playing around. OK, I'm sorry. What was the group? I'm blanking out with their name. I promise you. Describe it. Troop was one. Troop? Troop was one.

It's Troop R&B? Maybe it was Troop. But the two guys, one of them, they were so dope. But they were pop. Oh, Boris and Sunny. No. KRS had a fight with. Oh, uh.

PM Dawn. Don't say PM Dawn. PM Dawn. Oh, my God. He got diss-wrecked against me right now. Like, shit. Rest in peace to the homie that passed away from PM Dawn. Rest in peace to the PM Dawn. It was a joke, PM Dawn. The PM Dawn that's left.

And it was kind of ill diss-wrecking to you. I got to stand up and do it. I didn't hear it. I didn't hear it. But Hype, Hype, Hype at that time was doing that video. And I was cool with Hype. And they did the. And you didn't want to do PM Thorn video. Let's just be clear.

So I think they did the video in my apartment. Like they used. That main single? That, whatever the video was that Hype did. But you didn't want to give them clothes? What's that main record? But it just wasn't congruent with the brand. You know what I mean?

I thought they were dope. But you got them, right? And then at the time I had Pac, I had Biggie, I had Oli. I didn't want to chance the... It's not me, PM Dawn. We talk about chancing. No, just what the brand value system is. They're dope, but it was a different lane to me.

Yeah. That's exactly what I was saying. She said it the right way. That's exactly what I was saying. So, now, we spoke about magic. Magic conference, right? Magic conference, which was ill to me because I used to go out there and get free clothes. I did not realize that I had holes in the free clothes that I was getting because they were samples.

They were tests. I didn't really realize that until I was in the hood flossing. And he was like, you know you got a hole in your shirt? I said, holy moly. I said, I got to do this. What happened? Holy moly. And they're like, holy moly.

I said, geez, Louise, Papa, geez. Okay. Let's move on from that. Yeah, we had to cut him off. Fashion week. Something that I personally, because me, I'm not like a fashion guy. I just like to fly shit, but I a fashion guy. I just like fly shit.

But I don't like to invest into the fly shit. But I'm invested into the fly shit. Okay. But Fashion Week, I don't invest in. I don't care about these models that come to the town. And now there's traffic on 57th Street. And I go to 57th Street all the time. And it's okay.

So I don't care about these models named Sasha. What is your point, bro? But I'm not in fashion. For a fashion person, fashion week, what does this mean? Is this y'all Super Bowl?

Because to me, it's like soccer. Like, you know how the world loves soccer? But we don't give a fuck about soccer. Let's just throw it out there. Let's just throw it out there. The soccer fans are going to ban us too. Let's get me too with the soccer fans.

Soccer's the biggest thing in the world. Soccer's trash. Fuck y'all. Fuck y'all. Fuck y'all. What is this football shit? Why y'all keep kicking the ball, and everybody's sweating, and it's only three points? Stay on the field.

Oh, that shit y'all did? Three points? Fuck soccer, man. Our motherfuckers are sitting around. So that's how I feel about Fashion Week. But wait, wait, wait. Before you answer, I want to kind of add on to it. Hold on, hold on.

I want to finish Fashion Week, though. No, it's about Fashion Week. It's going into Fashion Week. Do you feel that... Okay, what's the best way to describe hip-hop fashion? I always feel like urban fashion was kind of like a weird way to say it. Is it? I'd say it's lifestyle.

It's really lifestyle. It's just who's wearing it. Right. In terms of putting labels on it. I think we're the only category that has had eight wearing it. Right. In terms of putting labels on it, I think we're the only category that has had eight different names. Right. So for lack of a better word, we could say hip-hop fashion, though, right? Do you feel that it's evolved to the point where it's mainstream fashion now?

It's pop. And that's why now it's going into Fashion Week. It's one of the biggest industries. Right. It made the most money. Come on, brother. You got to spray Creed in the air sometime. Come on, man.

I got allergy from that. You just got to spray Creed. You got to make sure the devil is not lurking. You know what I'm saying? Look, man. No, that's the devil, nigga. She's Mexican, bro. She's not Mexican.

She's not going to meet you like this. Okay, cool, cool. I'm sorry. I don't know if she does. So, bro. She's not Mexican. She's not going to meet you like this. Okay, cool, cool. I'm sorry. I don't know if she does. So, yeah. I just want to get you to say, fuck Fashion Week. Well, let's... That's my whole goal right now.

So, Fashion Week... Fuck Fashion Week. Yeah, like, I've never been a Fashion Week, like, contender. Like, I've never depended on Fashion Week to dictate my success or validate my dopeness as a brand. If you look at the color of people that walk the runway, it's very different a lot of times for the designers that are allowed into fashion. So it's problematic in a lot of ways. I think the world is changing. It's just not fast enough.

I'm not waiting for it to change so um your tribe is your tribe you don't need fashion week to tell you so i feel like you're saying you got heat fuck fashion week i'm saying that it works for some people and for some people it doesn't it's not for everybody it's not for everybody it's not for everybody fuck fashion like like like it's fun. It's like a lot of people like it. Hey, let's just say fuck. Fuck Fashion Week.

Let me get it out of you. Fuck Fashion Week. Fuck Fashion Week. That's one thing. Listen, listen, listen. That's one thing that Drake and Kanye can agree on right now. Because they're going at each other. Listen, y'all, I want y'all both to realize, fuck Fashion Week.

For both of y'all, fuck Fashion Week, right? I don't get this. There's a guy named Pierre. He's giving out Vivi Clico. He's just walking around. I'm an indie. So, you know, it's not like, as an indie, it's not that important.

They don't invite me anyway. So like, I'm in town. Is that why you mad? Yeah. No, I've been mad. I've been mad for a long time. Didn't you just go to a fashion show recently? Yeah.

Come on, bro. I wish I had my horns like that. Come on, man. Come on. Eating sushi! And for the disclaimer... In all fairness, it was swim week. Even worse. Same assholes.

And reiterated why I hate fashion week. Hold on, hold on. And for the disclaimer, I have to say I'm getting ready to do a collab with another brand, and you might see it at Fashion Week through their brand. And you'll be right there,

because you already went, so... I like the free drinks. I got to throw that out there. I got to throw that out there. Tuna tartare. I didn't like their tuna tartare. They cheese stick, too. I was like...

They cheese... You obviously wasn't saying, fuck Fashion Week that day. I actually was there sober that day. tuna tartare they cheese stick too I was like they cheese you obviously wasn't saying fuck fashion week that day I actually was there sober that day no that was

swim week oh so that's okay I live in Miami swim week is a little different it's like shark week you gotta go with your wife

and just act like you like this shit oh yeah yeah you gotta you know you wanna stay married you know what shit. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. You got to, you know, you want to stay married. You know what I'm saying? Like, all right, yeah, yeah.

Because I'm just, you know. You were mad, too. I was mad. You were mad. One time. But they showed me my smoking section. As soon as I seen the smoking section, I said, hey, hey. I'm dead.

That's all you got. That's the key to this shit. Have a smoking section. With non-stinking cheese because the cheese they had there that day is, it smelled like the thunder from down under. Holy moly guacamole. It was not good. April Walker, we love you.

Thank you for having me. So what's next up before we get up out here? Just, I'm doing a book that the audio is dropping. I have a book called Walker Jim's Get Your Ass Off the Couch. I brought one for you. Wait, Walker what? Walker Jim's Get Your Ass Off the Couch. It's all about the passion pursuit.

And the audio is dropping. The audio has, it was produced by Milk D. It has Rosie Perez on it. It's going to be dope. Rosie Perez? And then I do a lot of educational work. So I'm doing a class with Clive Davis Music Institute

at NYU this fall. And it's called The Sound of Fashion. I'm excited about that music and fashion. Work with the kids. Shout out to Global Finance. Teach them B-Y-O-B. Be your own brand. Build your own brand. Independent. Be independent. Shout out to Global Finance. Teach them BYOB. Be your own brand. Build your own brand.

Independent. Being independent. And then VidSig. VidSig. All about VidSig. You want to find me? Find me for Fashion Fridays. For new up-and-coming designers.

I'm doing monthly collaborations. I'm consulting. This is the one-on-one you want. So you can find me there. That's beautiful. Make some noise for that. This is a one-on-one you want so you can find me there Because you know what our show is about people take a shot flowers and You know as I research your story, I really thought your story was out there I really thought but then when as as I started to research, I started to say, I don't know it. So how many more is me?

Right. And I kid you not, I know I said it earlier and I know I said it in a plain way, but I always thought designers had it the easy way. I did not know. So many hurdles. Yeah, I did not know that y'all got the same hurdles as us. Maybe even not worse than us.

So I want to give you your flowers right now. I want to tell you how much you appreciate it. I want to tell you how much that we love what you did. How much you paved the way to your face. How iconic you are. How iconic you are. Because like I said, I really thought when I asked you,

when I researched you, I really thought you had asked you when I researched you I really thought you had someone that you said you know I could base this off of you know Elizabeth Taylor or I thought you was

going to say that when you said I had nobody that shit touched me just now like I mean like I knew your story but just now

you saying like I had nobody I just was like you know what fuck it I want to compete with what's going on and that to me has to be saluted that to on. And that, to me, has to be saluted.

That, to me, has to be respected. That, to me, has to be honored. And I don't want anything to happen to you. We want to tell you that to your face. And this is your platform. This is your home. If you want to perform. If you want to promote your new slipper line.

You can perform it, too. I mean, promote. I meant to say promote. If you want to promote your motherfucking new eyeliner line, if you want to promote pink toenails, that's just for the little toe. Okay. Just for the little toe.

Just letting you know. At Fashion Week. At Fashion Week. Especially if Fashion Week is in Miami, because we out here. And he's there. We out here like that. Have a smoking section.

This is your home. This is for hip hop. And you are hip hop. You are not a visitor or a person. You are hip hop. When I researched you, I had very fun researching you. And I love that. I love when I go and research and it's fun.

Because it's like, oh, shit. And you don't talk much. You don't talk much. You're very to yourself. But I love the fact that you was open with us I love the fact that you and we want to tell you to your face

we love you we appreciate you you are a hip hop icon you are a hip you are a person who shaped the mold of how we dress how we feel

and how we operate and we love that and we really appreciate you here at Drink Champs. Make some noise. So, you gonna take a picture of me, and you do a drop? Again, how important this show is.

Thank you so much. Because you're telling our stories. Yes. And you're doing it fearlessly. Yep. You're not diluting. Yep. And you're empowering, solessly yep you're not diluting yep and you're empowering

so thank you thank you thank you come on thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs hosted by yours truly

DJ EFN and NORE please make sure to follow us on all our socials it's at Drink Champs across all platforms, at TheRealNoriega on IG, at Noriega on Twitter.

Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to drinkchamps.com. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Your gut microbiome and those healthy bacteria can actually have positive effects.

Your mental health, your immunity, your risk of cancer, almost any disease under the sun. This week on Dope Labs, Titi and I dive into the world of probiotics, the hype, the science, and what your gut bacteria are really doing behind the scenes. From drinks and gummies to probiotic pillows. Yes, really, probiotic pillows. Yes, really probiotic pillows. We're breaking down what's legit and what's just brilliant marketing. With expert insight from gastroenterologist, Dr. Roshi Raj. Listen to Dope Labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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AT&T, connecting changes everything. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention. This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind, and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. You can now binge all 10 episodes of Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.