Drink Champs - Episode 354 w/ Crazy Legs

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode the Champs chop it up with the legendary Crazy Legs! From the legendary Rock Steady Crew, Crazy Legs shares his journey in hip-hop. Crazy Legs breaks down the origins of the terms “Break Dancing” & “B-Boy”. Crazy Legs shares stories of Wild Style, Rock Steady Crew and much much more! Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss!!Make some noise!!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 *Subscribe to Patreon NOW for exclusive content, discount codes, M&G’s + more:  🏆* https://www.patreon.com/drinkchamps *Listen and subscribe at https://www.drinkchamps.com  Follow Drink Champs: https://www.instagram.com/drinkchamps https://www.twitter.com/drinkchamps https://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps https://www.youtube.com/drinkchamps  DJ EFN https://www.crazyhood.com https://www.instagram.com/whoscrazy https://www.twitter.com/djefn https://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions  N.O.R.E. https://www.instagram.com/therealnoreaga https://www.twitter.com/noreaga *Check out our Culture Cards NFT project by joining The Culture Cards Discord: 👇*See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. I know a lot of cops.

They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. Hey, hey, it's your boy N.O.R.E. He's a Miami hip-hop pioneer. What up, it's DJ EFN. Together, they drink it up with some of the biggest players. You know what I mean? In the most professional, unprofessional podcast.

And your number one source for drunk facts. It's Drink Champs motherfucking podcast. Where every day is New Year's Eve. It's time for Drink Champs. Drink up, motherfucker. What up, motherfucker. What it good be? Hope you're doing good. It's your boy. Drink up, motherfucker Now, me and EFN started this show, we looked at each other and we said, there's so many other platforms for new artists and for new outlets and things like that. We wanted to cater to super legends. We wanted to cater to icons.

We wanted to dedicate it to superheroes. People who have been doing this. When I was researching this brother that we're about to introduce, they said that he started doing his thing in 77. I said, holy shit. I said, yeah, I was born. This motherfucker been literally doing it my whole life literally

he's a person that if you're Puerto Rican and you know how to dance or if you just a hip hop if you a hip hop period and you have a hip hop dance I don't care what it is it can be the stanky leg

it comes from him he was the first person that made people and I imagine the thing, and then I found out he invented the windmill. It's like talking to Michael Jackson right now. We are happy, ecstatic, vigorous, enthusiastic, to have a legend of a legend, an icon of an icon, a person that we all should throw flowers at his feet when he walk down the street, literally, because his feet is crazy, and his legs is too.

So in case you don't know who the hell we talking about, we talking about the one, the only, motherfucking Crazy Nights! May you represent me at my funeral. So you know what was one of the craziest things is... No pun intended. Me seeing you on Letterman, right? Like, I'm going back because I had no idea Letterman would even do something like that.

Because how was it, for lack of a better term, I didn't see b-boying at that time as being a commercial. Like, you know what I'm saying? I thought it was like some real, you know, underground. So when seeing on Letterman or seeing a thing like that, was that like a beginning of B-boying crossing over or no? Yeah, we were there because of Flashdance. Right. So yeah, that was like. Yeah, what year? That's early 80s.

That was wild. That came out in 83, Flashdance. So when we did the David Letterman show, I mean, that was kind of wild. I'm going to fucking go all out today because I don't give a fuck anymore. Let's go. Let's go, man. So we get set up to do the show, and the dude that I was with doing the show was coming off of being high the night before. Is that Ken Swift?

Yes. So he was all fucked up. And we're like, oh, shit, how are we going to do these routines? Was this Acid back then? Was it Acid back then? What y'all was on? Yeah, we were doing Acid. Everybody did Acid.

Yeah? Why? I don't know why. I don't see B-Boys. Nah. We were doing Acid. Yeah, but a lot of people don't see B-Boys as stick-up kids too. Right, right.

We were living double lives. For sure. Right, right, right. Yeah, so it was wild. So doing that, not knowing how that was going to turn out. Right. And then, but the whack shit was a while ago after I see David Letterman in a restaurant. And I'm thinking like, all right, well, he's probably cool. I tell the waiter, hey, you know, I'd like to go say hi to him.

Can you let him know? And he's like, no. Because of that experience with you guys? Huh? No, it's just he's a dick. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Whatever, that's him. Right. So nothing happened on the show like that? No, it's just he's a dick. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit.

Whatever, that's him. Right, so nothing happened on the show like that? No, no, no. It was all good, thankfully. I heard you, this is like the third time I heard you say

you didn't really like him when you was there. No, I didn't like him. Wow. What was it? His dry humor? Yeah, it was that dry humor that I didn't get

coming from where I come from because I'm like, yo, this motherfucker's stupid. Right. You know? And that's, you know, at that I come from. Cause I'm like, yo, this motherfucker is stupid. Right. You know? And that's, you know, at that time,

even though like, you know, we're dancing and we were still, we were running wild, like Central Park, robbing people. I got the Central Park. So you're going too fast.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the reason why you guys were there was you were, what did you do for the movie? Consult?

No. So we danced in flashdance at the beginning and then at the end I actually doubled for her. They actually wanted me to teach the girls how to spin on that back in 24 hours.

And I'm like, all right, that's not possible. So they ended up having me come in the next day and like, hey, you know, the director, Adrian Lyons, like, hey, you know, would you mind dressing up as a woman or whatever?

And leotard and all this other stuff. And can you keep your mustache or something like that? No, well, first of all, I'm like this. I'm talking to a dude like this. I'm like, yo, you know, that's money. That's the money sign. Like, I'm not even really talking to the dude. I'm just like this fucking ignorant Bronx dude, 17 years old, and I'm like this in the dude's face.

And he's like, all right, cool, cool. And we want you to shave. And I'm like, oh, shit, man. So I just keep doing that. And I just did it, man. I was just like, fuck it. I did it. And I also, like, recently doing the studies, I didn't know that breakdancing was frowned upon, the word breakdancing.

Yeah, yeah. That's what it is that breakdancing was frowned upon, the word breakdancing. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is, breakdance? Yeah, it doesn't. So the word breakdancing doesn't come from hip-hop. It came from my former manager. Your manager, the white lady, right? Yeah, Cool Lady Blue. And she misspoke in a meeting, and she was also our publicist.

Right. So she was the one. Because y'all laughed at her when she said that. We would just, I mean, we would, man, I was maybe 16 when she did that, 15. And, you know, she got a British accent. We're from the Bronx. It was like, ah! She said break the whole thing.

So, yeah, we were just fucking with her. But we didn't know that she was feeding it out there like that. And that's how it got into the press. And a lot of people say the media made that term up, but it was her. It was her. Single-handedly. And then once they heard it, that was going what

was called back then, what's called now viral. Right. Like it made its way around. And we had the most press back then. Right. You know,

for that period of time and what we were doing, nobody was getting more press When you say we rock steady. Rock steady. Right. Yeah. Right.

So you literally, like let's just take it back to the beginning. You literally went on the first hip Rock steady. Right. So you literally, like, let's just take it back to the beginning. You literally went on the first hip hop tour. Yep. I went on. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's make some noise for that.

Let's make some noise for that. Yeah. I'm sitting there and I'm like, wait the fuck a minute. So, because you got to remember, everyone is thinking this is a fad at this time, right? Everyone is thinking that this is black people's and Puerto Rican people's version of rock and roll. It's not going to be successful. It's going to be just successful to them. But you guys, this was not a world tour.

This was the first tour, but it was in America, right? No, no, no. So there was two tours. There was one. Oh, sorry. tours. There was one, oh sorry, the first curated hip-hop show, for the sake of presenting it to the downtown scene, was curated by a man named Henry Chalfant.

And a lot of people confused the word graffiti rock with the Michael Holman show that was on TV, where Run DMC versus Treacherous 3. So, Graffiti Rock was a curated show at a place called the Kitchen Center for Performing Arts in maybe 1980? That's a couple of years before the Graffiti Rock was a curated show at a place called the Kitchen Center for Performing Arts in maybe 1980. Wow.

That's a couple of years before the Graffiti Rock show on TV. And Henry Chalfant had got T-Kid as a graffiti writer to do the backdrop. Rocksteady Crew, we split ourselves up to perform a battle as two different crews. And then you have Fat Five Freddy, DJ Spy, and this dude named DJ Spy and Rommelzi, who weren't supposed to be there. And I found out some dirt. Should I air it out? Yeah, go ahead.

Whatever you want. Henry Chalfant told me that, well, I talked to Fat Five Freddy, and I was trying to get, like, Code Crusher Fantastic. So Fred injected himself and his boys. And he became the MC, right? And that's how he got his thing in terms of being a performer in the scene.

Let's make some noise for Fat Five Freddy. That was some crazy shit, but it worked out. The first swindle. Right, so when you say the two first tours, so you say that, okay. Okay, yeah, so that was, so the Kitchen, after that, had a 12-city tour. So it was myself,

Frosty Freeze, Fat Fat Freddy, DJ Spy, and then it was just like a collective of like jazz and rock and punk artists going on a 12-city tour

between the States, Midwest, and Canada. And then after, after that, we started performing regularly downtown. So the first curated club events for hip hop presented to the masses and being covered by like the Village Voice, New York Times, Daily News, all that stuff.

And can we just start interjecting, but to be clear, there's no MCs. There's nobody rapping on this tour, is there? Yeah. Who was? Oh, you're talking about the Kitchen Tour? Yeah, the first. Yeah. Who was it? You're talking about the kitchen tour? Yeah, the first. Yeah, that was Fat Five Freddy. He was actually rhyming?

I thought he was just hosting, emceeing as a host. I'm just going to say we were high a lot on that one. I don't really remember. Right, right. But yeah, so he was the master of ceremonies and dropping some rhymes. And then this guy, DJ Spy, he was really dope. He's from Brooklyn. He was rocking out on the turntables.

And then shortly after that, we started doing shows in the downtown scene. The first downtown club to ever have a hip-hop curated show. Besides the kitchen, because the kitchen was like an art center. It was a place called Negril. Negril. I got my notes, baby. I got my notes. You see,

let me tell you something. I ain't going to lie. You're still in my interview because look, I was about to say this is one of my questions. But wait, before you say that.

The Negril nightclub. But wait, wait. Before you get to Negril. I told people because somebody was like, yo, but does Nori know his shit? I'm like, yo, Nori's good.

Yeah. Nori's good. That's in my list. It says, the grill nightclub considered to be hip-hop's first nightclub. Is that the truth? I wouldn't say that. I would say in terms of presenting hip-hop to the downtown scene, yeah. Downtown. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, T-Connection, Audubon Ballroom, XTC Garage. That's in the Bronx. Yeah, all the stuff up in Harlem World. Okay, okay, okay. Places I used to go to. Uptown. The way that you're saying all this, it makes me feel like the dancers and the graffiti artists and the DJs were more in the forefront at this point.

Definitely. Easily. Okay. Yeah. I want to get back to this subject, but hear me if you can, right? We know the five elements of hip hop, right? Then hip hop starts to change, right? You get these corporations, they come in, some get down with them. Well, the music of hip hop is is extracted. Some get down with them, some don't. But this was about maybe 10 years ago. Me and Capone,

we go to Europe. And I forget where we're at in Europe. I told this story. You always say Dusseldorf. No, no, no. Dusseldorf, Germany. I love Dusseldorf, Germany. But I remember

me going on the tour and I remember before we went on the tour and I remember before we went on the tour, the promoters would just disappear. And they would come back and they would smell like old school Krylons. I'm sorry for y'all youngins in here.

Spray can. And then they would be out there and they would have the cardboard and I would be like, did they do that just for us? And this was something that they did at their hip-hop clubs. And this was, this wasn't that long ago.

But why is it abroad people want to embrace the hip-hop and the elements more than we do is right here created? That's a deep question, man. I'm sorry. Now it's time for me to drink. Now it's time for my drink? That's a deep question, man. I'm sorry. Now it's time for me to drink.

I think... Now it's time for my drink. No, no, no. I got you. That was a deep question right there. I felt good about myself. I'm sorry. I think because of it being very regional

and like our New York hip-hop state of mind, the way we came up and how we presented all the elements, a lot of people who got it later on in the States only got rap. So they don't feel any kind of real alliance to the elements of hip hop. And even when you say five elements of hip hop, you know, originally it was, you know, breaking DJ and MC and graffiti and beatboxing. Wow.

And then Bambaataa changed it to knowledge instead of beatboxing, which I thought was unfair. I say just add the sixth one, you know. Yeah, might as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that and that happened like early 90s when they changed it.

Yo, but why does the pure essence of hip-hop live in other places other than America? It's more appreciated. Is that the word I should be using? Yeah, it's definitely more appreciated. I think... Maybe it's a two-part question. Have you experienced being out there? Yeah, of course. It's like a bittersweet, right? It's like, damn, I think... Maybe it's a two-part question. For its totality. Have you experienced...

Yeah, of course. It's like a bittersweet, right? It's like, damn, I like that. But then it's like, why do you do that at home? It's like my beef with love and hip-hop. Like I said, it's not like they represent hip-hop culture.

No, not at all. You know what I'm saying? At all. And that's the thing. Here in the States, the word hip-hop is just, it's rap music. By the way,

I think this is the most hip-hop-est conversation we ever had on the show right now. Good. Make some fucking noise. Hip hop shit. So here's the thing. I'm getting goosebumps. Okay.

When we live it, I think we take it for granted. Okay. Especially when it comes from people like us. Right. And when people outside got a lot of corny shit to live through. Right. You know, I don't think they go through the same kind of pain they embrace. And they do the theatrical.

I think it's more theatrical. Like, it's even like with dudes who spit rhymes but never shot a gun and they're talking about shooting guns or never been in no real beef. Like emulating. It's theatrical. Like, you know, for me, I know what it's like to be shot at and to pull a trigger. I'm not trying to celebrate that shit, you know for me i know what it's like to be shot at and to pull a trigger and i'm not trying to celebrate that shit you know so with a lot of people they think it's just like theatrics they're trying to put on this persona because they think it's so cool but it's like yo my dude like if

you're gonna if you're gonna go out there and you're gonna dance you're gonna try to look like a hard rock right you know you ain't really being you being you. Because you didn't have to live defending yourself, worry about fighting people every week. But that part was confusing to me growing up, seeing B Street. I was scared of you. We were wild back then.

No, no, no, I'm talking about literally because the way you approached Lee, I related to Lee, and the way you were just looking at him, I was like, this dude right here is going to hurt somebody. It looked like, how could you not? Obviously, I'm young, I'm looking at the time, and to me,

B-Boying was gangster. Wasn't it made to diffuse real beats? No, that's some bullshit that New York City Breakers made up. That's the other crew, right? That's the other crew. Damn? That's the other crew. They used to be floor masters.

Damn, you're killing me, bro. You know your shit today. So the thing is, they did that show, That's Incredible. And I think Michael Holman was kind of like steering the narrative when they were talking. I'm guessing. I could be wrong. But look, the dudes that put me in rock steady, they were straight up stick-up kids. And one of them, he's doing a life bit, and his name rings bells in the system.

But they were notorious in the Bronx. These are the kind of dudes that when they're rolling up to a jam and Code Crush sees them and whoever sees them, they're like, yo, what's up, man? Like, they're giving them that love. So shout out to Jimmy D and Jimmy Lee. Right. Those are the creators of Rocksteady. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jimmy D and Jimmy Lee.

I got that on my notes, too. But they were notorious. They were. Were they from 183rd? Yeah. And they used to hang around 183rd and Davidson. Oh, not Creston. Creston.

Oh, Creston. Sorry. Which, if you went to 183rd and Creston back in the late 70s, you were a stick-up kid, talented, connected, or stupid. Because you're not going there and leaving without getting stuck up. It's like when you went to the Disco Fever. You went to the Disco Fever. I know everyone talks about how great it was in there in the secret room behind the curtain where everyone's sniffing coke. But in order to get through that block, you're literally putting yourself on the line getting stuck up.

And thankfully, I never got stuck up. But I went up in there. God damn it. Make some noise if you never get stuck up in there. I mean, but we was always, we were also doing stick-ups. Right. Because that's what I'm watching a documentary, and you kept reiterating that you lived a double life,

like you guys lived a double life. On one hand, you guys would do a Letterman, do a movie, do, you know, this, and then on the other hand, you actually stick sticking up. I think they said that you filmed a scene in Central Park at the same place where you used to stick people up. Yeah, we did an anti-drug

commercial with Curtis Blow. Wait up. We were high. I wasn't talking about you going to bed. Wait up, wait up. I didn't know that part. Wait up. Yeah, that's what it was. You did an anti-drug commercial high. Yeah, in Central Park.

In the same place you used to rob people at Central Park. And it was directed by the dude from the Chicago 7. What's his name? They did the film on him. God, legendary leader of the Chicago 7 at Court for Rights. Right. But, yeah, so. Right. God Legendary leader Of the Chicago 7 At the court for rights Right But yeah So Right

Yeah we did I mean In Beach Beach Street Right Battle scene Yeah crazy

Most of us were Legendary shit No no I'm talking about The battle scene At the Roxy That was the Roxy Yeah

I thought y'all was under a train Oh no there was a train And then there's a club scene Oh no that's a different one But in the club scene Okay Again. I thought y'all was on a train. Oh, no, there was a train and then there's a club scene. Oh, no, that's a different one. But in the club scene, again, most of us were like on acid. That's why. I don't know why I can't imagine y'all on acid.

Because everyone thinks because we dance. No, no, no. I think a different drug of anything. Acid is cool, man. Acid is just good to mix it. Bro. Y'all must have been tripping crazy. No, but the cool thing is...

It was the paper acid, right? Because they got different assets now. Well, multiple ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They got different assets now. But the thing about... You understand, like... I'm just walking around.

For us back then, we didn't brag about dirt. Right, right. There was no such thing as, like, snitching on yourself like it is now on records. Right, right. You know? So you didn't do that. You just...

You did your dirt and you shut up. You take shit to the grave. Right. Like, yeah, I'm definitely taking a lot of shit to the grave. No, I'm not going to lie to you. When y'all, when y'all, when I see, when I see y'all say, in the top of your Japanese whiskey, you're going to take your Japanese whiskey? Yeah, we're going to do it.

Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. I'm so, but I'm not going to lie to you. There's nobody in the world that could have convinced me that that wasn't real. Like, when y'all walked by each other. Oh. I kid you not. Like, I didn't know what cinematography was. Right.

I didn't know. Oh, yeah. You felt like it was like a documentary reality. By the way, I know for a fact that was y'all wardrobe. I know that they could not dress y'all. Oh, yeah. I was my sheepdog. Yeah, my mom couldn't dress y'all. I know for a fact that was y'all wardrobe. I know that they could not dress y'all. Oh, yeah, that was my sheepdog. Yeah, yeah, they can't dress y'all.

I know that. I know that now from knowing. But back then, me looking at that scene, I could not tell you. I could not tell if y'all was acting. You know, here's the funny thing. We wore our, well, I think most of us wore most of our own gear. I think New York City Breakers kind of wore a lot of the Puma stuff because they were like the main group

in the film. But yeah, I mean we had to show up with our own shit. A lot of shit that they were putting out was corny so we weren't trying to look like and thankfully we didn't end up looking like the Breaking movies where they're wearing fluorescent clothing and all that other stuff.

You couldn't walk through like that in the hood unless you were like a Madonna fan female, you know? I wasn't ready. Shots fired. And one of the things that I hear you frequently say is,

you said that it was kind of, you kind of stopped battling at one point because these guys were actually using your moves and using it against you. How could that feel at first so my dude jerry fontana as i was talking to him one day he was like yo rock steady

for the 90s rock steady for the 90s and and you know i was always thinking like yo what are we gonna do battle people who are doing our moves against us but and i was kind of upset with that but then he was like yo my dude like you gotta look it like this. You created something that people are doing around the world. And in the hood, we thinking like, yo, you biting my shit. Like, yo, what's up? Instead of being flattered by it. Yeah, I didn't know how to be flattered by it yet. And then at that

point, I was like, all right, cool. But in the Bronx, we had way more advanced moves than other people in other boroughs. So when I was going to these other boroughs and they saw me do what I was doing, they were definitely stealing. I don't want to say my shit because there was other people before me.

I never want to take credit away from them, but they took a lot of the Bronx style and then some people got it, some people didn't. But you don't get to be number one without some whack motherfuckers around. Of course. You got to beat some people.

Flattery. what they say. Flattery. Imitation is great. Imitation is flattery. But like you know, ask like a cliche question like what Biggie Smalls said. Did you ever thought

that this would go this far? Like the culture, like this commercialization. Because remember at one point being commercial was whack. Like if you, like almost, let me let me let me reiterate that not not when we started though it wasn't considered whack that okay put us on because there was no industry for us right there was only opportunity and bro look my first show that i got paid i got paid well not a second show i got paid

anything substantial i got paid fifty dollars right and, well, not on the second show I got paid anything substantial. I got paid $50. Right. And it was that show at Negril. And when I got that $50, you know, I grew up poor. Right. So, like, by the time I was 18, I had 10 different home addresses. Right.

And so, when I had that $50 and I was able to go from my school across the street to the diner and get my own meal for the first time in my life. Wow. Growing up in poverty, domestic violence, dysfunction, all that shit, that shit was everything to me. And not only that, it was all love to all my people from the Bronx, but it was considered the burnt down Bronx at that time. Yeah, the boogie down Bronx.

My man Frosty Freeze always used to call us the Boogie Down Burned Down Bronx. Right. You know, there's nice. When was the last time you've been in the Bronx? I've went around. I go often. There's like a park. It's so beautiful.

I'm like, oh, my God. I forget where it's at. It's like, uh-uh. Is it Pelham? Oh, man. I looked. I was like, they're fooling people. This is still the Bronx.

But I didn't think the Bronx would be gentrified. It's stubborn. Right. It's definitely stubborn. It's probably like one of the slowest moving paces out of any gentrification in the world. Right. And you live in Puerto Rico now?

I have a place in Puerto Rico and I also stay in- Oh, I have a place. Okay, all right, my bad. That was a flop. That was a flop. You know what's crazy? I recently, because I had too much responsibilities in Puerto Rico at one point, like just being out there, trying to make the music.

And I just, but I recently just went out there and I fell back in love with Puerto Rico like this. So, once you, and what was going on with the Puerto Rico relief? The initiative. Oh, wow. It's crazy because there's certain things I can't talk about that because we found loopholes in terms of how to get supplies

legally into Puerto Rico. Okay. Legally. But the system would change if we if i talked about it and they probably put a block there's a lot of political roadblocks to get man this is it's all about money but you know i've always felt like number one if i felt like if i was going to contribute to any kind of tax uh uh environment i'd rather buy something in puerto rico started with that I ended up realizing

that, okay, well, there's a lot of dysfunction within Puerto Rican history because of colonization. And if there's something that I could do to help people move forward, let me do it. But then you have, it's in the line of disasters, you know, hurricanes and all that stuff. And, you know, growing up poor and seeing my people struggle, that hit me hard. So, you know, I went down there. Red Bull helped me out to get a couple of private planes of supplies to go down there. That was bringing water, right? Yeah, I did water filtration systems with an organization called Waves for Water,

where we enabled 200,000 people to have access to turning their water into clean water. Rob Markman, Right. This is when Trump was throwing the paper towels. Rob Markman, Yes, yes, yes. And then earthquakes. I mean, we've raised a lot of money. We've-

Rob Markman, Puerto Rico had an earthquake too? Puerto Rico had an earthquake too? Rob Markman, Yeah, yeah. That was in between Fiona and Maria. Rob Markman, Get the fuck out of here. Rob Markman, And that's crazy. Now here's the wild shit. Rob Markman, Right. Rob Markman, Yeah, so when you go into an earthquake...

What's your Japanese whiskey? We don't see it. I don't know. Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, it had an earthquake? Yeah, there was an earthquake. And here's the crazy shit. It's like, you could grow up in a hood and feel threatened

and get something to protect yourself. But when you go into a ground zero of an earthquake situation, I don't care how hard you are, what you've been through, you have no defense. And you know you're driving right to ground zero and you got to make the choice. It's like, all right, well, this is how I die. Right.

But the bigger picture is somebody got to go there. Right. And those are the choices we make when we go into disaster areas. I could die today and I'm OK with that. And you're saying Puerto Rico was considered a disaster area at that time? Yeah. Every time there's an earthquake. Yeah, they're crazy disasters.

Yeah. So why? Like, you know. That's why we're so resilient. This was crazy, right? It's considered American property? Colony. Col property? Colony. Colony?

Colony, yeah. But we have... Technically, Puerto Rico... Not a state. Technically, Puerto Rico is under military rule. Meaning? Meaning it was taken by force. During the Spanish-American War.

Right. After the Spaniards left, like eight days, the United States said... Is that why Louisa is blacker people than me and Louisa? No, Puerto Ricans were originally black, bro. That's right. Goddamn it, talk that talk. Talk that talk, goddamn it. Talk that talk, goddamn it.

I mean, you know, Tainos, dark skin, and it's the reason why my hair, when my hair grows, my hair grows into an afro. No product needed, you know, and it's, I mean, it's the reason why my hair, when my hair grows, my hair grows into an Afro. Right. No product needed. Right. You know? Yes.

But that's, that's in us. So, you know, even when people talk about the debate of like Puerto Ricans and hip hop and all that other stuff. You know, that's where I was going. You know that's where I was going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You and Fat Joe. Fat Joe has said, hold on, let's salute you.

Yes, cheers, cheers. I congratulate you. You got it too, man. Give your motherfuckers, make some noise for Crazy. Hey! Thank you. Salute. You and Fat Joe.

I'm 45. Joe is, I think, a couple years in. I think you're like 10 years. I'm 57. 57, okay. So what's that? Joe's like four years younger than me. 12 years.

10 years. Well, I'm 47. So for those that don't know, not only were, you know, Puerto Ricans involved with the making of the music and the throwing of the jams when it comes to how people got together. And there was a couple of Latinos there.

There might have been some Cubans there too. Yeah, in every element of hip hop. Like, because, you know, it's fucked up. Just go for it, bro. Go for it. I just want to, because kids nowadays think hip hop started with Biggie and Tupac. And what's fucked up is they don't go back in their research. But they'll have on a pair of Jordans where he didn't play 40 years ago.

Right. How the fuck you making money off of this? And you don't know your history, but you know Jordans? Jordan ain't give not one of us a free pair of shit. But this is our mental colonization, man. Let's just talk that talk, I dare you. Come on, let's talk. Let's get to it.

You know, when it comes to, like, people trying to figure out the history or the anniversary date of hip-hop, which is mad suspect. Right. That date, the year is suspect as fuck. It's like Christmas. Like, nobody really knows what Christmas is. Yeah. It's exactly like that. And the thing is that people have gotten so comfortable with a narrative or the romanticizing of a particular story or perspective that they're taking that as

absolute right but there's enough data out there to cross-reference and be like well geographically time it's just impossible for certain things to have happened and if you're looking at a flyer and then another person in that same flyer says, I didn't even know him that year. How am I? How am I on this flyer? This flyer is fake. So there's doctored flyers to to make up the history. I'm going to say it right now. Fuck yeah. Yeah, there is. But I do understand that we have to come to a consensus where it's like, all right, well, we got to celebrate something at some point. But it just shouldn't be based off of a comfortable lie.

Because if you're looking at all the archives that are being acquired by Cornell, Harvard, all these places, when they start cross-referencing, they're going to be like, ooh, that's a lie. That's a lie. This person lived here at this point. He went to that school and all this other stuff. And then even on the Puerto Rican and black thing, it's like if you're looking at Disco Mario, this guy Tex Hollywood, I believe his name is, and Kool Herc being those absolute first DJs. Look, if you were down back then, no one would know you're Latino. There would be no reason for them to know you're Latino, because we just lived

amongst each other. Your problem was my problem. When we get pulled by the cops, we're getting pulled together in the Bronx. So it doesn't matter whether you're black, Puerto Rican, or whatever. So, for you, your background is what? I'm black and Puerto Rican. Okay, so, never had no need to say that back then.

I used to call myself a nigga Rican. So when you talk about, let's go King Mario, black and Puerto Rican. Text Hollywood, Puerto Rican. But they look like you. And that's the thing that a lot of people who grow up in areas that are segregated don't understand. In New York, we're stacked up on each other. We lock arms with each other. You know, you protesting, I'm protesting with you.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. And a lot of places aren't unified like that. It's one community. I heard you say something real, real important. You said if you was to take away, I think you said Puerto Ricans. So if you take away Puerto Ricans in hip hop. If you take away Joe Conzo's photos in hip hop, the whole story of hip-hop

becomes very difficult to tell because he's the first one and he's from within the hip-hop community to actually document what he was doing. Just the environment. And he was a little chubby kid. I didn't even know him back then, but he just picked up a camera

and started documenting. If you removed all of Joe Conzel's photos, everything that we look at as iconic photos from the 70s, they'd be all gone because there's no one else. I think the reason

why people even dispute this debate is because... Because they stupid. Because, look, they're either young, stupid, divisionists,

or don't come from our area and don't understand how black and Latinos in New York, we fucking roll different, man. We're not, I'm sorry, like, to me, it's my brothers. I don't give a fuck. We've never had to have this discussion. Right.

Because it's like, yo, your beef is my beef. Let's go. But you can see how like a person from from East Los Angeles. Yeah, absolutely. Because they're so segregated in there. And then it's places like Chicago as well, where it's nothing but Puerto Rico. Yeah.

But still. Still segregated. It's still segregated. Like when I go to, you know where they got the flag? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The metal flag. Yeah. I love to go there,

but I always remember some of my black friends don't like it. They'd be like, oh, I'll stay in the hotel. Even those segregated areas will tell you that historically hip-hop was the thing

to bring everybody together. Yes. Okay. Even in those areas, it was still happening. All right. Yeah. And, you know,

when you're looking at it, look, in the 90s when I started to move around again, I went to San Diego. And there was a sister in the gas station. I'm like, yeah, give me whatever. I'll pump whatever. And she looks at me like, where you from? And I'm like, tell me where I'm from.

Because she can smell the New York on you, right? Yeah. She goes, I say, I'm from New York. She goes, because you don't sound like no Mexican. Yeah. I mean, that's what, that's going to happen to every Latino at some point. No, then she goes, you black? I'm like, I got that in me, but, you know, Puerto Rican and we mix, like that.

She didn't even know what a Puerto Rican was? No, she didn't know what a Puerto Rican was. No, you don't know what a Cuban was, a Puerto Rican. Yeah, no, I kid you not. If you pass Virginia sometimes, it changes to, it's still Latinos, but it changes to a different type of Latino. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And you know, it's crazy. But you know, Dominicans is everywhere. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was in Switzerland, and they had a fucking Dominican restaurant. I said, holy moly guacamole. In Zurich, Switzerland.

And the price was crazy, right? Dominican set up anywhere, bro. I don't even think anybody in there was Dominican. They just had a Dominican restaurant. No, not even Dominican. I was just playing around. Hey, you know, before I forget, because I wanted to just shout out,

there's this organization called the Elijah Project in Rhode Island. It's Black and Latino owned. And, you know, we're starting a huge initiative in Puerto Rico, as well as areas in the United States where we're going to really reach out to people in different communities of need and deliver furniture, appliances, all kinds of stuff. And I also have a nice partnership with Amazon where they're giving me budgets to source out people in desperate need as a result of disasters. And we're just, you know, no politics, no religion involved,

just humanity, like, just helping people. So I just want to give them some love. Hell yeah. Make some noise for that. Give these flowers. Well, we want you to know our show is about giving people their flowers. I had so much fun researching and, you know, getting into your life, and we wanted to personally, face-to-face, give you your flowers because you deserve it.

Oh, shit. You know what I'm saying? Make some noise for my girl. Hey! There you go. That's it. He's going right over the bed. That's right.

That's right. Well, let me give you something, then. Okay, cool. Let's go. I got something right here. I'm going to throw on my glasses because I'm old. So my man, Mayor 139, who's here, he was also in Style Wars. Okay.

Wow. Hell yeah. I met him earlier. So he's the one, actually, the person who designed the BET award as well. Oh, wow. Nice. We haven't gotten it yet. Which we haven't gotten.

We won it and didn't get it. Hopefully this pops off right. This is a little present for the show. Anything that comes in case like that is new. I think I'm the first B-boy to represent B-boys and B-girls on a show. Yes, that off right. This is a little present for the show. Anything that comes in case like that is dope. I think I'm the first B-boy to represent B-boys and B-girls. Yes, that's right. So to make sure there's always some B-boy, B-girl representation. And if you could tell me what I'm missing over here.

What am I doing? You can come over here if you want. Yeah. Please, please. Yeah, there's something that's supposed to jump off. It's Ashton. But this is the authenticity of it. Wow.

I believe that's your music for your show. Oh, that's right, that's right, that's right. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh! Wow. That's dope, y'all. That's dope.

You get that right on the table, yup. That is amazing. Yes. Thank you. I'll make sure it don't wind up like a other award. Thank you for bringing him on. Oh, no, no, come on. It's an honor for us to have him on.

Appreciate that. I appreciate the diversity of the culture and the language. Absolutely. He's dropped a lot of gems. I'm really appreciative. I know he's been here. Yes, hell yeah. He's an original too, man.

Thank you, brother. Thank you very much. He was probably into hip- I don't know if he was into hip-hop before me, but maybe and a lot of gems. I really appreciate it. I've known him for years. Yes. He's an original too, man. Thank you, brother. Thank you very much. I don't know if he was into hip-hop before me, but maybe around the same time. It was still hip-hop. No, we didn't even call it hip-hop

until like 82. And a lot of people don't understand. Can we just get into that? Yeah, so in 82... So how was hip-hop 50 then? Because you're saying it's blip. Is it?

It's 50 because, you know, some of the elders don't want to stir the waters, and I get it, but in 50 years from now when we're all dead, some person's going to cross-reference and be like, this is wrong, this is off. So you're saying hip-hop 82, so what year? I'm going to put it this way. The people on that that first flyer and a lot of people will be really upset

with me for this oh man there are certain people on that flyer who said i didn't even know kuhirk on that day i didn't meet kuhirk until two years later and that flyer only showed up 10 years ago and what fly is this so the famous flyer poster that's supposed to be the first jam okay now now whose name is on this jam dj clark kent the original clock hen okay uh timmy something i forgot his name um kuhar but clark kent didn't know kuhark until two years later based on what he said he met him in 75. and there's a whole bunch of stuff. Like, you know, a lot of people think Kool Herc started Breakbeats. No. It was a dude named...

Wait, come on, man. Stop. No, no, no, no, no, no. But here's the thing. Okay. I'll get to the good shit. Okay. A guy named John Brown.

That was his name. He used to DJ at a club, and Kool Herc went there. And I had Kool Herc's first interview. So I got the data. I got the receipts. So in there, he says he saw this dude named John Brown spinning out this club in the Bronx, and then he was inspired.

Now, the thing is that, yeah, he inspired Herc, but Herc inspired the other people who really elevated and evolved everything into a different lane. So I would never take anything away from Kuh Herc's contribution, but I'm not going to embellish it. And even without the embellish it. Right. And even without the embellishment, he's still cream of the crop when it comes to the music. Because that's the one thing I feel like everyone in hip-hop kind of agrees with, that Kool Herc is the father.

But he wasn't called the father of hip-hop until Bambaataa told everyone to stop calling himself the father of hip-hop. He told people, yo, don't call me the father. Calling Bambaataa? Right. We all used to call Bambaataa the father of hip calling himself the father of hip hop. He told people, yo, don't call me- Calling Bambaataa? Right. We all used to call Bambaataa the father of hip hop. But why is that? Because Bambaataa is the one who corralled the streets, the hoods, and the- The black spades and bringing out all this-

Well, I mean, just in terms of, like, you know, if you threw a Zoom Nation jam, you'll see Code Chris perform. You'll see Treacherous 3, Soul Sonic 4. So Bam was bringing everyone together. Bam, you know, also celebrated the B-boys and the graffiti like he made the elements come together to become he a cult he didn't curate it like that but everything was treated as one family right you know and in the early 90s bam was like yo stop you know don't call me the father of hip hop. But he was inspired by Herc as a DJ. So, because he was inspired by Herc, he wanted to give Herc the ultimate

hip hop thing, which is not fair because if you start taking apart the elements, graffiti, DJing, breaking them scene, okay, who is his peers in each one that are going to say the exact same thing about him being the father of every element? It's not going to happen. It's impossible.

I feel like we're talking about Socrates. Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, in a sense, we are. No, and the thing is, is that when you're looking at people like Grandmaster Kaz, Melly Mel, and different writers like Lee Quinones, Futura 2000, Phase 2, those dudes are like the Kool Hurts of their own element of hip-hop. So when you say Kool Herc is the father of hip-hop,

that diminishes the role of every leader from every other element of hip-hop. But I've never really heard no one else say what you just said just now. Because they don't like to stir the waters because I talk shit. You know? Honestly, I... You're saying they're saying't like to stir the waters because I talk shit. You know? Honestly, I... You're saying they're saying it, but they're not saying it. They know it. Look, I went to a meeting and I'm not going to throw any names out

because I love my brothers, man. But I went to a meeting where we were going to address... You are on a drink challenge. That's okay. But have another drink. I'm still a leader. Right, right, right. So there was a meeting where someone was sent as Kool Herc's representative.

And the question got to the point where, okay, did Kool Herc create hip hop? And this is someone that's Kool Herc's peer. And he was like, no. But am I going to say that in public? No. And then he rightfully said, because your motherfuckers are the ones who started calling him the father. You know, but we were told that by Bambada. So we didn't know better, you know.

And even with that, it still doesn't take down Kool Herc and his influence, his impact on the community that he served. It's just that there are more pieces to the puzzle. Look, I could easily sit here and say, yo, I saved breaking two times. But how can I do that without competition? Who am I battling to have saved it? Who's the number one record? There's no number two.

So I got to give credit to New York City Breakers and Dynamic Rockers and all the crews that I came up with, like from the Bronx Rockwell Association, the Bronx Boys, Star Child of Rock, all these crews that will never get the attention because they never moved forward after that point. But I'm still going to recognize them. Let's get some clarity on what you're saying, because you're saying Herc for the music.

Yes. So are you saying that before that, obviously the graffiti artist and the dancers, that was already happening? It was, I would say it was a genesis. Because people say that Herc came from Jamaica. Yep. And he was, that's like kind of how. Bringing the turntables together.

Bringing the turntables together. Bringing the turntables together. That's a nice story. Right. Oh my God. It's a company. No, no, no. If you're talking, if you're talking.

Oh my God. I'm not getting ready. If you're talking sound systems and where he comes from and that coming from there. Right. Yes. But was that already in New York?

Which I've seen this argument a lot, a lot. So I'll give you the data. Right. There's a dude named Koo DJD who was already in the parks. Koo DJD was getting a new sound system. He sold his old sound system to Koo Herc. That's when Koo Herc came into the parks.

The sound system that Koo Herc talks about that he got from his father was a house system. That's why he could do the community centers. You couldn't bring that system out into the parks. It's going to be like bringing a little box. So Kool DJ D was that dude who was already in parks. Mario was in the parks. There was a lot of people in the parks, some people doing disco. And it wasn't as, I would say, curated in terms of music the way Kool Herc did.

Because Kool Herc is the one who curated that hip hop sound, without a doubt. And that- But not specific to the breaks you're saying? Yes. No. Specific to the breaks. No, no, but the way the party was being done from Kool Herc's perspective on changed it. But his inspiration came from different people, and his sound system came from someone else as well. So that meant that he wasn't the first in the parks. But even with that, he was still the first major influence on

the larger body of people. And that is fucking amazing. I can have my differences with the timelines and inconsistent stories, but I will never take away his flowers because he deserves those. They just don't need to be embellished.

Right. Yeah. I didn't mean to bring you guys down. No, no, no. It's like I believe that's the first time I heard that. It's the first time for me as well. Like even if I did hear it. Except a part of the turntables

because I feel like the same way that people have been trying to take away the Puerto Rican Latino side of it, they've also been trying to take away the Jamaican influence on it. Right.

So I feel like there's that argument going on. But here's the thing. I don't, and I wasn't there a couple of years before I started, so I don't know

if Kool Herc was playing Jamaican music, but the only person I knew that was playing reggae was Bambaataa. He was playing Yellow Man. Oh, God. I can't even think of all the artists right now.

But Bambaataa was the one who turned us on in hip-hop to what would be considered rock steady. Right. You know, that style of reggae. Right. Holy shit, man. I mean, the tapes are there you can hear them and that's that's and that's the good thing is that these tapes exist thankfully tape master rest in peace he just passed away and that's another brother we wouldn't have those musical references if tape master

wasn't making those tapes back then the djss do that sometimes? Yeah. But if there was a first industry, hip-hop music industry, Tape Master was the dude. He was the first, I would say, mixtape king. Yeah, absolutely. So I heard you say that in your day, you would battle to get your name. But then now, it's like,

in order for a person to secure their name, they don't battle. No, no. What I said was, back in the days, you had to battle to protect your rep. Oh, okay. These days, people avoid battles to protect their rep. Right. Right.

Why? Yeah, I don't know. Like, for me, if I heard you was like B-Boy whoever, and you live like 20 blocks away, I'm like 14. I'm rolling up on your block like, yo, you a fan? I don't know what you look like b-boy whoever and you live like 20 blocks away i'm like 14 i'm rolling up on your block like yo you efen i don't know what you look like right you efen you ain't happy it's the grand back there you break a word you want to battle we battle right there on the concrete or we go find a hallway something like that right but that's what it was i mean everyone put their reps on the line i mean look at if you look at this dude, Gabriel Rosado, the boxer. Okay.

His warrior status in the game, even when he doesn't win, I mean, he's still held in high regards. Right. Because he's a fucking warrior. He puts his name on the line. And even after he fights, his name is very well protected

no matter what the outcome. Right. And that's what hip-hop was built off of. His name is very well protected no matter what the outcome. Right. And that's what hip-hop was built off of. And... It's all we had, bro. We were poor. You know, the only thing you had was just like, you know, some props, you know, maybe

you need some girls, something like that. And that was it. Jesus. What was it? Was it? The money came from stick-ups. It was, it's a street from stick-ups. Yeah. It was, it's a street culture from the get.

Yeah. Because drug dealers were, were, were like backyard, right? Or. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, we didn't do it like that. Okay. It was just like, and I'm not going to come in here like, I was like the main dude in the streets or anything like that.

Right, right. You know, we, we, you dance, you practice, you get hungry. They said you like, you was the only one one that got bored in jail a little bit. Everyone else went to jail, and you was like the only one that like... Should I have been in jail? Yeah. Yeah, wow. Multiple times, but I don't talk.

Right. And that's just it. I beat a case where I was ready to take the charge. You know, I told my man, just stand back, I'm taking everything. And I beat the case, so... You know... I bullshitted my way through that, too. So, uh, hold on.

Say no more. Oh, no, no, no, I got one more before QuickTime. Um, oh, yeah. So you invented the windmill, but you originally called it the backspin? The contin... Uh, yeah. So you invented the windmill. Yeah. But you originally called it the backspin? The contin... No, so there's two versions.

There's just the backspin where you spin really fast. Okay. Which I call the whip backspin. And then the windmill, which was originally called the continuous backspin. With the open legs? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, so that was all... I did that on, like, Crotona Avenue in the Bronx. Crotona Avenue. In a hallway, just practicing. Originally you were trying not to fall or something. I was trying not to hit, you know, those two doorways, slim hallways, tenement buildings. This is fucking amazing. And I over-rotated and I just was trying not to, you know, for the fast one, I tried not to hit the walls with my feet.

So I balled up and centrifugal force whipped me around, and I started spinning real fast. I did that when I was maybe 13. Right. And that was originally called the backspin. Yeah, the backspin, the whip backspin, because your leg whips around and forces you to spin fast. So when did it become the windmill?

The windmill, probably around maybe within that same year. I actually called it the continuous, but since we were, after a while, we were already traveling years later, and people didn't know the names of these moves because more people were starting to break again. So names changed because people don't know. We're not hanging out with every crew. We only hung out with our own crew. And at that point, I was rock rocksteady crew, it was like 500 deep.

But it was sticking with kids, DJs, b-boys, DJs, MCs, hangout crew, writers, all that stuff. We rolled thick, man. Do you realize that that's a rite of passage? Like if anybody's a dancer, if anybody really wants to take they self real, it's like, I think you got to learn. I got to know the windmill. I'm just being honest. Any b-boy has to.

No, no, no. I'm saying dancing overall. B-boying, oh, sure. But dancing overall, it's like, you have to know the windmill. Yeah, it's a foundational move. The moonwalk. And it's like one other dance. You have to know the windmill, the moonwalk. Yeah, it's a foundational move. The moonwalk, and it's like one other dance. So out of the three dances, pop and lock and break and, you know, and then, I mean, some people in New York start called electric boogie,

which is a wrong version of pop and lock and mix together. It's like mixing salsa merengue together. I like it. People call it, no, but I mean mixing the dance steps, which is two different rhythms. Two different rhythms. Yeah, so you can't do that. So a lot of people don't know, the history don't know that popping and locking are two different dances the same way mambo and merengue are. Right.

Popping and locking, two different things. Yeah, so one's popping, one's locking. And how do those two relate to what you guys were doing? That's West Coast stuff. The robot, that's West Coast stuff, right? Yeah, robot, popping, locking. Yeah, that was the electric boogaloos and the lockers were the ones who were on Soul Train. Right.

And we on the East Coast used to watch Soul Train, and a lot of people tried to show up in a club. A lot of the girls back then would try to do a lot of moves from Soul Train. Right. And we on the East Coast used to watch Soul Train, and a lot of people tried to show up in the club. A lot of the girls back then would try to do a lot of moves from Soul Train. Right. Just for, like, the social dance aspect of it. Right. You know what's funny? I was watching, right? And because I, obviously, I'm a little younger,

so I don't remember ever anybody not ever being a break-in on anything but a cardboard. We started that. I don't know. I got you. I got you. I got your story. I got your story. But there's a part that I'm watching, and you said that you were doing it at first on the rubber mats under the swing.

Yep. So when I was saying that, I was on the phone with somebody. I was like, yo, he just said that he started doing this shit on the rubber mats. And I realized I'm speaking to my friend from the West Coast. He can't relate at all. He's like, rubber mats? I'm like, you guys never had swings? And he's like.

It was sand or dirt. I don't know. I didn't know on the West Coast. I mean, out here down south. It had sand. I mean, I was a kid in L.A. too. That's what's funny. We had the least protective surface.

I'm listening to a West Coast guy, and I'm listening to a South guy. I'm like, yo, I just heard Crazy Legs say that if they wasn't on concrete, the safest thing they was to do was on the rubber mats. And both of them was like, what rubber mats? And I'm like, y'all didn't have rubber mats? And they're like, by the swings? By the park? Y'all didn't have rubber mats? No one? like, by the swings? By the park? Y'all didn't have rubber mats?

No one? This is a New York City thing. I had no idea. I thought the whole world had fucking rubber mats. Yeah. So, but describe to people, because I also heard you say that you actually used to do it raw on the cement. Yeah, we started breaking on concrete. Definitely.

How was... We were bloody. Blitzless? We were bloody b-boys. Blitzless? Y'all look like y'all was lifting cement bricks all day. Well, yeah. Yes.

Since the moves were new and not mastered yet, we'd have scrapes on our lower back. Yes, I heard you say that. So, yeah, there was a lot of blood at the beginning of breaking. Wow. Yeah. So whose idea was like, yo, let's go get the cardboard? So on 98th Street in Amsterdam in New York, there's a park there which is now known as Rocksteady Park.

Hold on, but which is brilliant, by the way. They fucking went and got cardboard. And I don't know who was the first one to do it. It was one of my guys. Okay. Right next to the park, there used to be an appliance store. So in between the park and the appliance store was an alley where they would put all their trash cardboard.

And the next store to that was a 99-cent store. So we would go there, steal tape, and then we'd go climb over the fence, pull cardboard, because we wanted to keep our gear fresh. Right. That's what the cardboard was for. Yeah, yeah.

It was to not fuck up your gear. Yeah, and so we could spin. Okay, okay, okay. So we wanted to stay fresh. I mean, we didn't have much clothing

to really just jump. Right. Be like, yo, I got my practice clothes in. You know, my hangout clothes. So we would just set up and do that. And I'll send you

some images if you need it for the show. Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah, yeah. Because I ain't gonna lie, like like me being from new york city it's like that's a proud moment for us like to see people come together like i didn't even know what we were doing like i would go to because you know from left rack city so i would go to usa skating rink but i know you got a i got a story about that i would go up there and it was like,

I didn't know it was a cool club, at least at that time. And the people who wouldn't be able to get in there to go skating or whatever, they would stay outside

with the carboys. But these was like the guys like... That means they didn't have like $6 or $3 to go in. Yeah, or they didn't have no juice. You know,

you know, and I would sit out. Baby J was the DJ. Mmm. juice. You know, you know. And I would sit out. Baby J was a DJ. So I would, you know, go there. But I didn't know that was like a technique. I didn't really know. Like, I didn't know. Like, I just would see this and this would be something like, like I said, I'm 45 years old.

So hip hop is older than me. I have that in the rhyme. Hip hop is older than me. I listen to it in my stroller. Because I don't remember. I can't remember where hip hop didn't older than me. I have that in the rhyme. Hip-hop is older than me. I listen to it in my stroller because I don't remember, I can't remember where hip-hop didn't exist. Right. You're old enough to remember the time.

Yeah. And it's funny because, like, as much as people call me a pioneer, like, people try to separate generation, this generation, that generation, and still don't fucking know the definition of a generation. But I started in 77. So in the way I look at history, I would say hip-hop started in 75.

Okay. From your perspective. Because most of the people who can collaborate. What's the word? Corroborate. You say hip-hop is corroborate. who can collab, what's her name, what's her word, ah, corroborate, corroborate stories.

Most of the stories are 75. You don't, So you're saying hip hop is 47 and we just rounded it off to the nearest 10? I think so.

I think, but I think that's still fair. That's still hip hop though. Yeah, yeah. Rounding it off is still hip hop. That's some hip hop shit. I thought you thought

it was older. You think it's younger. You think it's younger. I think it's younger, by two years. Okay. Yeah. But I'm cool with settling, but I'm also understanding that somebody's going to change that shit in the future when we're not around. Right, right. And no emotions are involved.

Right, right. You know, they're just looking at times and data and location and possibilities. Right. and data and location and possibilities. But, yeah, so I started in 77, and when people say, like, oh, Latinos weren't there, I'm like, all right, well, how long did it take to create before we got in? My brother was the first person I saw breaking with DJ Africa Islam.

I was in 76. My brother was a member of the organization which became Zulu Nation. Wow. It was before it was Mighty Zulu Nation. So it's like when they're talking about Latinos wearing a thing, I'm like, my brother was a card-carrying member of the organization.

Right. And then Disco Mario, like, Kool Herc's peers, if you're talking about those three being the main three, two out of three are Latino. I know, I think I kind of asked this earlier, but why do you think they're trying to take that out? I think they don't understand.

Like, from my perspective, everyone in here is my brother. Right. And from a New York perspective, that's how we rock. And if you grew up in those areas that have you living in different communities, it's going to be different for them. Right. And a lot of those different communities, if you have a Latin community here and they're not associating with anything hip-hop, there's probably going to be a lot of Latin music there. Right. You know?

But at the same time, we have our own struggles within the Latino community because if we're not into salsa, if you don't do a song and you don't drop Spanish in it, that diehard Latino community isn't going to really see you as theirs anyway. Right. Trust me. You probably got more props for dropping Spanish. Well, that's why I laughed originally.

Yes, yes. Trust me, I remember. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and bestselling

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On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st. And episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide, and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space

and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It changed the game, though, right? It changed the game though, right? It changed the game. But I think a lot of people have a hard time because when you do look at those early images and there are dark-skinned brothers there

and you don't know they're Puerto Rican also because we didn't have to talk about it. You don't see their tail. And then, check this shit out. Then there are people who are Latino that didn't know they were Latino. Wow. So, Grammix and DST.

First person to win a Grammy in hip-hop because of what he did with Herbie Hancock on Rocket. He found out three years ago. He calls me up like, your legs. We got to go to Puerto Rico. I'm like, what? Yo, found out I'm a love child. My father's from Ponce, Puerto Rico. Okay. So, that means- Make Ponte, Puerto Rico. Okay.

So that means... Make some noise for Puerto Rico. Yeah. Make some noise for Puerto Rico. So that means the first person to win a Grammy in hip-hop is black and Puerto Rican. Goddamn, make some noise for me, goddamn. There you go.

I'm black and Puerto Rican. All right, hold on. I'm going to use the bathroom real quick. Y'all can keep going. Y'all keep going. Go ahead. Yeah, if you're going to use the bathroom, you just... I got the same glasses at home. Let's go. I'm going to use the bathroom real quick. Y'all can keep going. Y'all keep going. Go ahead. Yeah, if you're going to use the bathroom, you just keep going. Yeah, I got it. Might as well use it.

I'm going to use it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. I'm going to use it too. Take it. Take it. We'll be right back. so so so so so

so so so so so so so so so We'll be right back. Fair warning, fair warning. Thankfully, I'm in walking distance. Yes.

You want me to go first? Go ahead. All right. I don't know. I don't know what you're going to pick with this one. Oh, no, no. Do you explain the rules? Ah, shit.

I'm going to give you... I'm worried about the slime part. Two choices. Two choices. Yep. You pick one, and nobody drinks. You say both or neither and we're drinking all of us are drinking

that's it so if you pick one politically correct and you say neither or both then we drink with you and we drink with you we don't leave you out there

by yourself we drink with you we walk away fucked up too so you're saying politically correct and you say both don't work like for instance

right now Fab Five Freddy or Ralph McDaniels? Ralph McDaniels. Okay. Okay. You don't have to give an explanation if you don't want to. But if you want to, you can.

Ralph McDaniels, oh, man. He's. We need both on Drink Chance, by the way. Ralph McDaniels, I mean, he's one of the nicest guys you're ever going to meet in hip hop. You know, he's a beautiful soul. He's authentic hip hop, even though his platform has been for rap music. He is well aware and supports everything. Good enough for me.

Yo! MTV raps or video music? I mean, based on his previous answer. Yeah. Yeah, Video Music. Yeah. It's a Colombian guy right there. You got it? Yeah, you got it.

Beat Street or Breaking 2? Beat Street. Okay. All right, we really want to say Wild Style. Ooh. Wild Style. Ooh. Go ahead. That's it. really want to say Wildstyle. Ooh. Wildstyle. Ooh. Go ahead.

That's it. A crush group or Wildstyle? Wildstyle all day. Really? Yeah. Explain. It was authentic. It was raw, man.

It was authentic. And, you know, those storylines of the—oh, no, I'm thinking—okay, I'm confusing it with breaking. My bad. Oh, no, I'm thinking... Okay, I'm confusing it with breaking. My bad. There's a Wildstyle. I think Wildstyle is the genesis for real hip-hop movies, even before Beach Street or anything else. Because everyone... Wildstyle is the first movie to select all of its cast

based on actual legitimacy in the game. There were no record labels involved. So you were in there because you were actually dope. And if you weren't in there, there was probably like some paperwork issues.

But everyone there was at the top of their game. There was no politics. And it seemed almost like a reality show so shot so raw. That should have been Love & Hip Hop.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Jesus. Okay. You got it. 80s been love and hip hop. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Jesus. Okay. You go. 80s or 90s hip hop? Oh, fuck, man. Take a shot?

Take a shot. Okay. Can I get, um, I'll tell you why. Okay. Go ahead. Well, let's take the shot first and then go on.

Yeah, take the shot and then tell us why. Come on Go ahead. Well, let's take the shot first and then go on. Yeah, take the shot and then tell us why. Come on. Oh, 80s is my formative years as a teenager. Right. So that's like the soundtrack of your life. Right. That's your first girlfriend, you graduated school.

That's when you went to junior high school in Manhattan? No, I went to junior high school in Manhattan. That's where I got my name, Crazy Legs. A girl. In Inwood. She said, you got some crazy legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In junior high school in Manhattan. That's where I got my name, Crazy Legs. A girl. In Inwood. She said, you got some crazy legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In junior high school, 52.

That's how she said it, right? Yeah. She was like, yeah. You got some crazy legs. Arlene Rosario was the name. So, 90s, I feel like. I've been you for like a month, just so you know. I've been you.

Your research is incredible. You're like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad. Yeah, I'm sorry. 90s, for me, in my mind I'm sorry. 90s for me, in my mind, is like the jazz era

of hip hop. Which is, quote unquote, the golden era it's called. Well, late 80s is golden era. Well,

I mean, I think it's late 80s going into mid 90s. Yeah. That would be the golden era. I need to know what you mean by jazz.

By jazz, meaning you had, Talking all that jazz? No, no, so when you look at Nas and you look at Pete, now Pete, he's a little, uh, yeah. You talking Nas, we talking 90s, we talking Nas.

It's the lyrical era. Wu-Tang. Yeah. The production. Mobb Deep. Yeah. Like everything. And the lyrical content.

Yeah. There was so much diversity from, you know, from Fight the Power to the Daisy Age. Right. You know? Right. So I like that diversity there. I felt like that was hip hop's best voice in terms of diversity. Right. Yeah. I agree.

90s. 90s. Fuck the police. Yeah. In terms of style. Yeah. Because you had political. You had love.

You had everything. Whatever. Yeah. Rikers Island out there. They talking about, oh, shit, we on point. All right. This is me. All right. All right, cool.

You got the next one. MC Lyte or Queen Latifah? Take the shot for all females across the world. Yes, yes, yes. You don't want to pick. You don't want to pick. Trust me. And we need both those queens on Drake's channel.

Both females. Yes, that's right. Mm-hmm. Okay. I would say... Oh, you're still picking out of there? Yeah, that's a tough one. I thought we drank.

Yeah, we drank. Yeah, I know. I'd rather not pick, so we drank. Yeah, we're in the clear. You drank. That's a toss-up. We drank. You don't have to...

I think that's a toss-up. Okay, you go to the next one. We didn't pick for you. Yeah, yeah. We drank for you. Yeah. Because we don't want you to do that. Okay.

Because they might both call you and say, what the fuck? No, I'm just playing. Go ahead. Are we going windmill or headspin? Windmill. Damn, I'm about to take a shot for that. Because that's hard. I know the dude that made the windmill.

That's crazy. I'm just being honest. I'm using you as bragging rights. You know what I mean? Anybody ever say I'm not hip-hop? I'm like, I know the nigga that made the windmill. The next one, I originally was mad when we were putting this in the list. I didn't think they matched up.

But have you seen the mashup they've been doing with these guys? Wu-Tang or NWA? Wu-Tang. They've been mashing up Wu-Tang with NWA with Wu-Tang beats, right? Amazing. It's amazing. But it's crazy because we've been asking this question for the past couple months. We make it all happen.

It's crazy. Yeah, I'm going Wu-Tang all day. Is that because it's a regional thing? Yeah, I'm fucking straight. Right. Yeah. I'm going to tell you- I like NWA though. I really appreciate them, but I mean, I'm fucking straight. Right. Yeah. I'm going to tell you. I like NWA, though.

I really appreciate them. But I mean, I'm also looking at the decades of body of work. Right. My thing is, I'm also an East Coaster, so I go with Wu-Tang. But one thing I always give to NWA, If you never went to California before and you heard that first album, you were... They brung you to California. Because we just didn't know.

I mean, again, I'm younger. I didn't know. I thought California was surfboards. California, hey! I didn't know. These motherfuckers said, fuck the police. You had ice tea already. No, no, yeah. Remember, before NWA, you had Ice-T. I didn't know these motherfuckers said, fuck the police. Be fair. It was like it was a brother and a sister. You had Ice-T already.

You already had Ice-T. No, no, no. NWA came first. No. No. Ice-T didn't come out before NWA. He came out before NWA. Ice-T came out before NWA.

What? I never knew that. Yeah. I'm going to tell you what I meant. I meant Ice-T. They didn't say that in the movie. No, check this out. Ice-T came out first.

I meant Ice-T before we went on. And he was a dancer. Wasn't he, too? Yes. No, but, no, 6A, you said Ice-T. Ice-T? out first. I met Ice-T before we went on. And he was a dancer. Wasn't he, too? Yes. No, but, no, 6A, you said Ice-T. Ice-T? Yes. Why didn't you say Ice Cube?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what I was going to give you. Ice-T. Ice-T. But Ice-T was already talking about. Yeah, yeah, that didn't get to me. That got to me later. King T might have came out, too, I think, before.

Colors, yes, King T. But it wasn't. I'm just saying, I get it. It wasn't right for you like how it was for me because i i now i'm like getting older and i'm la miami like i told you like i told you i must have heard rikers island first because when i heard um straight out of compton i thought compton was a jail so i was like oh i don't want to go to jail. That's because you were younger. Yeah, I was younger. And I'm thinking like how people talked about Rikers Island at that time. Yeah. You know what I mean?

74. So, but getting back to my point, yes, I did hear Ice-T. I wasn't old enough to decipher what he was saying. I did hear King T. But NWA, I was old enough to to say i don't want to go there yeah their impact because and i didn't get to see their videos all i got to hear was their vocals their lyrics so it it gave me imagination you understand what i'm saying like it's like reading a book you ever read a book where wherever this book is at you're there that's how nwa was

that's how i think nwa honestly from my perspective.W.A. brought an emotion that hip-hop didn't have before that. I felt like when I heard, you heard all kinds of rap artists. It was more like the action. Like, Melly Mel was the message. But N.W.A. You felt that anger. You felt that intimidation with N.W.A. And then P, yeah, and hand- hand in hand, P.E. But you felt like this intimidation

and anger for NWA that you hadn't felt in rap music up to that point. And I felt that that changed everything. That shit poked the bear. Okay. Did we take a shot for this or no? Because he picked Wu-Tang. Let's take a shot. Let's take a shot just for NWA and Wu-Tang.

Salud. Huh? Yeah, we just speak. Oh, man. I mean, I. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, son.

Before we were going on the Wild Style Tour. Let's make some noise. That's all far back. Let's make some noise with him flossing us. He was on the Wild Style. Fucking. So, holy shit. I go to.

Yeah, me. I'm going to tell you what. First of all, me and Islam did some wild shit. Africa Islam? Yeah. Africa Islam? Yeah. Africa Islam was the first DJ for Rock Steady as well. And he's an original B-boy. But, you know, we were all wilding back then.

So I go to meet up with Africa Islam because we're like, all right, we're going to buy an 8-ball. You guys were wilding. Oh, no. This is only to sell on the plane oh yeah you guys were hustling on the plane yeah come on i remember cigarettes and planes i don't know if i heard this correct did you just say you had to buy our eight ball to sell it on the plane. Yo, it's 30 people from the hood going on tour. Nobody got access to anything.

Me and Islam were probably the first hip-hop smugglers. By the way, his name is Africa Islam. I respect you, brother. The righteous dude. He used to come out here. We used to come out here with DJ Raw and them. So when I went to go pick him up to go on tour, Ice-T was staying at his place. So Ice-T was already connecting with the East Coast.

But yeah, we ended up buying like an ounce of weed and an eight ball. And then we're on the plane. And then all of a sudden, people smell the weed on the plane. Y'all smoked weed on the plane? Don't tell me y'all smoked weed on the plane. Yeah, yeah. In the back, you just... I mean, this is a time that cigarettes... Yeah, you smoke weed, stick your head

by the toilet. The suction, we thought worked. And then our manager's like, I don't know what kind of drugs you guys got on you, but you guys better do all of them because by the time we get to Japan, the police are waiting for you. On the way to Japan? Yeah.

And you know Japan don't play. No drugs. You get canceled for weed in Japan. So, yeah, so, you know, we're doing that and, you know, I think the only sober one was like Bambada. You know, everyone's

on like acid and blow and weed. And now we got to do, we got to consume everything now. This sounds like a great flight though. I ain't going to lie to you. The 80s was crazy. That was the original soap opera. Yo, that was the original. I'm not going to lie.

I'm trying to sit here and be like, oh, no. And then I'm sitting here like, this sounds great. The whole back of the plane was a cloud of smoke. Yes. Holy shit. Yeah. And the drinks were free back then? Yep.

Oh. I mean, I was a kid. I always go on every plane now, and then I look at it, and I see this leftover ashtray in there. Like, it's a tiny bit of ash. Like, this was used once. You know what I mean? Or a couple of times.

You never flew on a plane where they were smoking, right? Yeah. Pan Am, back in the day. Oh, yeah. LA to Miami. Those were my flights. We were on Japan Airlines. That's what it was.

Japanese. Yeah. Japanese on Japan Airlines. And, you know, I actually have a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes photos from all those trips

that have never been public. Oh, man. So we're going to do a—I'm talking to this dude, Jeremy Beaver, from the National Museum of Hip Hop in D.C., and we're going to set up a tour of those photos. Did y'all—here's the national question. Did y'all do drugs in Japan when y'all landed? We found weed. Found weed?

We found weed because I got a picture of Grandmaster Kaz holding a bag of weed. Grandmaster Kaz was smoking it even back then. Huh? Yeah. This is what you know about Grandmaster Kaz. He came here, he smoked his whole episode, his whole three hours. He smoked every run. Yeah, I mean, I'm down.

What's up? Oh, you smoke? I didn't know you smoke. Oh, okay. Shit. You know we got joints. We'll give you some mean, I'm down. What's up? Oh, you smoke? I didn't know you smoke. Oh, okay. Shit. You know we got joints. We'll give you some joints. I got this.

Yeah, give him one of those. Give him one of those. These is... Yeah, please. I don't smoke as much as Kaz. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah. Yo, so, oh,

then now I got to ask you this before we go to Quick Time of Slime. Before we go, we in it. Before we finish it. Hold on, let me ask you. Okay. Here, let me get one of those too. Oh, I got one. I got one. I got one.

No, no, no. Give him a lighter. Give him a lighter if you got one. Thank you. This is an old school quest game because all of y'all started with Easy Widers. What was the year? Big Bamboo. Yeah, Big Bamboo. My bad. My bad. Big Bamboo

and Easy Widers, right? When did it transition from joints to, God damn it, I respect you guys. Man, you brought it? Yes, yes. When did it go from papers to joints? Well, the papers were joints back then. You mean from papers to blunts?

Papers to blunts, that's what I meant. My bad. You knew what I meant. Then that was with White Owls. White Owls.apers and Blunts. That's what I meant. Not my bad. You knew what I meant. And that was with White Owls. White Owls. Yeah. Leather. That's like smoking leather.

That's definitely, that had to be easy early 80s. Not closer to, uh, shit, man. Like 83. 83. 83. Okay. Around that. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I used to get shit for free all the time, so I don't know all of that. So you said White Owls came before Philly Blunt Or was it Philly Blunt, White Owl, then Dutch Masters I think it was White Owls first White Owls And then everybody would walk around with Tipperillos Just to be cool

Okay, Tipperillos, I remember that Okay, let's finish quick time Doug E. Fresh or Biz Marquis You can take a shot. Biz is my dude, man. I love that brother, man. So Biz? Let's do a shot for him.

Yeah, let's do a shot for him anyway. Yep. Yep, I like that. He picked, but still took a shot. I mean, yeah. Biz became a very good friend of mine. Right. And I hooked him up with a bunch of archives.

We were doing a trade, and I found out that he was doing trades with everyone but not trading. What does that mean? That means that he was getting archives from everybody. I need that Soul Sonic Forest tape. Records? No, mixtapes from back in the days.

Biz was getting everyone's archives of dupes. And never hooked up anyone else. You didn't get the white cover? But that was my dude. All right, let's go to Busta Rhymes or Eminem? Busta Rhymes. Okay.

Radio or podcasting? Podcast. Goddamn, make some noise. I'm taking a shot for that. I'm taking a shot for that. You can say whatever the fuck you want to over here. I'm taking a shot for that. I'm taking a shot for that. You can say whatever the fuck you want to over here. I'm taking a drink to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. DMX or Tupac?

DMX. Seemed like you want to say something about that. I was never into Tupac, and I know people don't agree with me, but, you know, it just wasn't my thing. DMX reminds you of that New York street shit. And I relate to that New York street shit the most. Right. And, you know, whatever.

You ever got to meet Tupac? I met him once at USA nightclub in Times Square. And then we had a fight. There was a big fight in the club after that with me and my boys. Not you and Tupac. No, no, no. I met him. Then I went downstairs and got into a fight against M was a big fight in the club after that with me and my boys. Not you and Tupac. No, no, no. I met him. Then I went downstairs and got into a fight against Mock Tops. You know, Elite Force.

Holy shit. Buddha Stretch and all of them. So we had a big fight with them. Then I had a fight with the bouncers. It was crazy. We're glad you calmed down, sir. Yeah, yeah. I mean, whatever. Well, rest in peace to both of them. Yes. DMX and Tupac. Yes. Legends. Slick Rick or Rakim? You can take a shot, whatever. Well, rest in peace to both of them. Yes. DMX and Tupac. Yes. Legends.

Slick Rick or Rakim? You can take a shot, sir. Rakim. Let's stop telling them to take shots. We got to let them answer. I just don't be wanting, you know, I know everybody got a personal relationship. I Rakim because he made a lot of beats that I could dance to as well.

I was into his lyricism. I already knew about storytelling from Grandmaster Kaz. So that was already part of hip hop. Rock him, and at a certain point in my life, I was a five percenter. You never stopped being a five percenter, unless you start eating pork. I still don't eat pork. Okay, then you're still a five percenter. Yeah.

So when he was spitting that, it's kind of like when Wu-Tang spit shit. And you were around the country when it first came out. Most of the country didn't know what the fuck Brand Nubian, Wu-Tang, or Rock Him were talking about when they start spitting knowledge. Yeah. Right. You know? So, I always found it funny when white people would recite certain things.

Like, yo. They had no idea. They had no idea. Okay. K-Rus won or Coogee rap? That's a good one. Just take the shot. Man, I'm going to say, you know what?

I'm going to say Coogee rap. No, your face just said, let me take both. Now, I'm going to say, you know what? I'm going to say Coogee Rap. No, your face just said, let me take both. No, I'm going to say Coogee Rap. Okay. And that's because... You can't lead the witness. My bad. And this is like my own fucking ghetto trauma of hanging out with people who are wild.

And I can relate based on all the people that died around me and have been into dirt, what Coogee Rap is talking about. Right. I mean, KRS-One is the remedy for that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So who did you pick? Coogee Rap. Okay.

Yo, Colombians and Dominican Republics, you're distracting. Yeah, bro, come on. Stop talking about which one of you are going to sniff the more coke later. Yeah, come on. Get some work. You're distracting. You're messing us up. Okay.

Oh, mmm. Oh, there's a... Whoa. Okay. Got it. Big Daddy Kane or LL Cool J? Taking a shot? No, no, take a shot.

You got to take a shot. You got to take a shot. No, that drink don't count. You got to take a shot. He has one? Okay, he has one right there. Look, it's little. It's little.

Yeah. Cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers. Here's the thing. I would have said Big Daddy Kane. Yo, guys. What are you guys doing? I would have said Big Daddy Kane. I'm sorry.

I would have said Big Daddy Kane, but what sealed the deal for me with LL Cool J is that when Red Alert was DJing at Big City Diner on 11th Avenue in Manhattan, I think he was doing a party, Red Rum. And LL showed up and he got on the mic. He just rocked off of breakbeats. And he spit rhymes that were not on his records.

And he just, I was like, oh shit. Like, that's what I respect. That's what I grew up on. So when I saw LL spitting like straight up fire, like I'm going to just fucking burn his mic and drop it and bounce, he did that shit. And that's when I was just like, yeah, LL's 100% legit beyond records.

Both legends. Okay. Yeah. Disco fever or the Sound Factory? Disco fever. Okay. Because Factory? Disco Fever. Okay. Because I was lucky enough to get up in there, and I knew I was too young to even be in there.

16? I went in there at, yeah, 16. 15 or 16. Did you know you were living history when you was... Nah, man, we was wildin', bro. We didn't fucking appreciate history. You didn't even think about it at all? No, I heard you say that before.

I heard you say that. You weren't even living in the moment. Like, you didn't appreciate, like, anything you kind of was going through. No, we didn't. So when we would go to places, first time we went to France... This is amazing. They're like, hey, we want to take you to go see africa we're like nah take us to the hood you know and the hood over there is like it's

ethiopian it's turkish it's moroccan algerian african it's yeah yeah so that's where we felt comfortable we didn't feel comfortable doing all those things and i feel like i'm lucky to have had a second chance because it would have been nice to have done some of those things. But, you know, you grow up in the Bronx, and you're not cultured. And it's a maturity thing, too. I'm sure you were young. It's crazy because... It's a ghetto thing, bro.

It's crazy because I swear to God, me and my uncle Waz and my first two or three tours around kind of like the world, we were making it our point not to take pictures. Well, that was the era. That was the era. The era was like, fuck this. All the shit that we back, you remember when we did the magazine? Yes.

We don't got pictures of none of that shit. We don't got pictures of none of that shit. Nobody could even believe us. We don't have all this crazy shit. Our memories. Our memories. Hey, my AI can fix that shit. Yeah.

Make it up. It's crazy. Yeah, make it up. Goddamn, like the Flyers. We could ask Chad GPT the history, when was hip-hop started. Right. Should see what that cross-references. Holy shit.

All right. Biggie or Big L? Music, Biggie, friendship, Big L. That sounds like a shot to me. You had a relationship with Big L? Yeah. No, no, no. A shot.

Not a drink. Come on. This is drink chance. We're not letting you cheat us. Come on. Let's go. Side look. Side look.

You deserve your flowers. Big L. Big L. Big L is funny, man. First time I hung out with him, he told me some fucking wild story. Like, yo, man, you know what teabagging is? Oh, shit. It's when a girl's laying down and you drop your balls in her mouth.

That is mad random, yo. Like, yo, this motherfucker's funny. I mean, his lyrics were, ew. No, yeah. That's besides the point. When you meet somebody and he's talking to you about teabagging. But that's the type of shit he would say. He would say crazy shit in his lyrics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, tell me about it. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. So that's like the first couple of words he said to you? He just met you? Yeah, that's right. He was wild like that, though.

Wait, he said, hi, nice to meet you. You know about teabagging? Yeah, yeah, no, no. All that. But, you know, I can relate because, you know, I grew up, we were always cracking jokes and shit like that. That was amazing. That was cool.

Now, every time I think about me and Big L, I'll be like, oh. T-bagging? T-bag. T-bag king. Rest in peace. Rest in peace. I love, I love Big L. Yes.

Big L bigged me up. It was crazy. Before he passed away, he was like, he he was like he was going to change his style but he listened to me cameron and dmx and because of that he just stayed everything nice yeah yeah so i knew it's like i was like i didn't even know he knew who i was so that's always one of the biggest comments and i feel he was one of the illest lyricists at that time yes and and then you know he was there was the whole thing that he was going to sign the rockefeller i think if that would have happened and he would have been here still, he would have been a force to reckon with. And that's the whole thing.

Also, him signing with Sony, with Nas, I believe they had to make a choice. Well, he was on Columbia. Yeah, I said Sony, but I meant Columbia. Yeah, it was all. Yeah, that's why. Yeah. So thank you for correcting that. Okay.

Roxanne Chanté or the real roxanne taking a shot okay god damn yeah i can't just smile you know here's the thing there's so few Female representation To take any of them down Ain't cool That's right That's right That's right That's right

That's right Let's hear some noise for that Oh this is a good one Got it Cold Crush Or Thanks Cold Crush

You ain't even Nah I don't matter Cold Crush I'm Cold Crush all day Why Why because That was Alright so I knew It was Fierce Five The other one I know You ain't even let me finish. Nah, it don't matter. Code Crush? I'm Code Crush all day. Why? Why? Because that was, all right, so I knew. It was Ferris 5, the other one.

I know. But you didn't matter. Nah, it don't matter. Because I knew Code Crush before Kaz was in Code Crush. Damn. Damn. So the original Code Crush Brothers was. Was Charlie Chase?

Little Black, Teddy Ted, Miss T-Bone, Cisco Kid, and Easy A.D. With Tony Tone and Charlie Chase. That's the first actual hip-hop tape, rap tape that I heard. Right. So that's what got me into it fully. Cold Crush. Yeah. And then, you know, then Cold Crush became... Like, Cold Crush embodied battling.

You know? So everything that I was as a B-boy, Cold Crush was the top tier in the rap game. battling. So everything that I was as a B-boy, Code Crush was the top tier in the rap game. Sounds good to me. A tribe called Quest or Brand Newbie?

And that's the arrow we were talking about. I love when a person goes like that. Because it's like... Here's the arrow that's the arrow we were talking about I love when a person goes like that cause it's like it's like here's a funny thing okay I need another shot too here's my

here's my inner conflict okay I've had issues with members of both crews issues I need to hear these stories but oh word

yeah what's the issues with either of them issues with Tribe Called Quest don't tell me it was Fife no Fife is my dog rest in peace Fife yeah rest in peace no is my dog. Rest in peace, Fife. Yeah, rest in peace.

No, Jerobe, I love Jerobe. Jerobe's my gamer. Shout out to Jerobe. Great dude. Yeah. So I wanted to book Q-Tip for something, and I wasn't asking for a discount. Right.

And he was kind of like treating it like I was and was giving me the runaround. Was it time he was dating Janet Jackson? Rob Markman No, this is maybe like five years ago, five, six years ago. Rob Markman Oh, so this is not long. Rob Markman No, but this is... Rob Markman After Vibrant.

Rob Markman Now that I think about it... Rob Markman No, this is five years ago. Yeah, way after. Rob Markman All right, so here's the thing. So we have a back and forth and I'm like, I don't know who the fuck this motherfucker think he's talking to right now. And it's like, I goof around and I could play and all that stuff, like I don't know who the fuck this motherfucker think he's talking to right now and it's like I goof around and I can play and all that stuff but I can become a different person if I have to

so this is you and QT speaking directly text or phone? normally we talk on phone but he was banging his chest a little something while he was on text and I'm thinking like I don't know he's confused right now he's talking to the wrong dude and I'm thinking like, I don't know, he's confused right now. He's talking to the wrong dude.

And I said, you know what, my dude, you do you, fuck you. And by the way, when you had that beef with Rex and FX and all that hardware was waiting outside in case something jumped off, I'm the one that supplied that for you yeah so that's why but then i love his music you know so and then you know lord jamar with the whole trying to separate black and latinos i'm not with that you know but then i love you know i have an affinity to the gods wait i thought lord jamar Jamal... I mean, not Lord Jamal. Not Sadat. Sadat?

Was it? No, I can't... It was Lord Jamal who said that. Lord Jamal, white people are our guests. No, no. He said Puerto Ricans are our guests.

Did he say that? Yeah, I spoke with him. I spoke with him on the phone and he started to get a little live with me on the phone. I'm like, yo, my dude, like, again,

I don't know who the fuck you think you're talking to, but I'm not the one. I'm like, yo, my dude, like, again, I don't know who the fuck you think you're talking to, but I'm not the one. Like, what's up? And then, you know, we get to the question of like, yo. I asked him like, all right, well, if you think we're a guest, how long did it take to create hip hop before we got in?

Because now you have to deal with actual facts and timelines. And then he said, oh, yo, I got to go get my kids. Like, I'll call you right back. And there's that, oh, yo, I got to go get my kids. I'll call you right back. And he never called me back. But, you know, to me, I only make those calls and I don't do it online because that's some bullshit. I call them up, you know, we hit each other up directly.

I'm like, you know, because I want to make sure that we're not contributing to the division of black and Latino people. Right. When we need to, we're stronger. It's like this. Somebody told me, because we have our own shit within Puerto Rico, someone said on a panel, they're like, yo, Puerto Ricans need to decide whether they want to be 3 million on the island,

5 million elsewhere, or 8 million together. So for me, with black and Latino, I'm like, yo, let's put all those millions together. Because we got the same struggle. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution.

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It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network,

hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and best-selling author and Meat Eaterater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core.

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Yeah, the problem is that a lot of fair-skinned people, whether they're light-skinned black or light-skinned Puerto Rican, they start playing that card. And that's where it becomes difficult for us because they want an easy path. So, you know, yeah, I don't know how the fuck I got to that because of a brand newbie. Shout out to Tribe and Brand Newbie. But, you know, like, yeah, man. I got love for both of them, but at the end of the day,

we all have inner family conflict within hip-hop so i don't think you picked either oh yeah i know yeah yeah am i wrong for wanting to hear the backstory to the rex and effects but for the rest i kind of want to hear the backstory to that okay all right so here's the deal the story you know that beef and then first see the shot. Zulu was backing Q-Tip because he's Zulu Nation. Exactly. So, B.O. B.O., that's the big homie. Yeah, so B.O.,

that was my dude. And we had some transactions going on. And he was just like, yo, we're going to do this thing at the mosque, but we don't know how it's going to happen. And we need some weight. And was just like, yo, we're going to do this thing at the mosque, but we don't know how it's going to happen. And we need some weight.

And I'm like, all right, cool. I got you covered. So we made sure that a lot of the wheel wells around the mosque were stacked. This was when they were going to squash it? That's when they were going to squash it, but we didn't know what was going to happen. Right. But we had to be prepared. And Ray C. Lefebvre was from Harlem. Right. But we had to be prepared. And Wraiths in Effect was from Harlem.

Right. Slash Virginia. Teddy Riley and them. Teddy Riley. Yeah, so we had to make sure that everyone... Do you remember what they beef was about? Yeah, it was the New Jack Swing comment. I'm not a hardcore rapper.

That was five. That was five. Five said it in the record. Okay. It's some immature bullshit. Yeah, it was petty. Everyone was young. But at that time, I happened to have access to certain things.

Right. And it was my little side hustle in between jobs. Having hammers. Huh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And distribution. Okay.

And yeah, so I just applied what needed to be there and made sure that- Because you was down with Zulu Nation. Yeah made sure that Q-tip was down with I was backing Q-tip up and Zulu was hardcore bro but he never knew like again I don't talk like now we can talk because it's like our past childhood bullshit

and nothing happened they say 7 years we talking about 30 years but there's no statutory on murder No, no, no, we ain't talking about that, please Thankfully, nothing happened Yeah, exactly, nothing happened, thankfully, because at the end of the day For you and for hip-hop

Yeah, exactly, because that would have been bad for everybody Yeah, for everybody, right But, you know, to me, I just felt like, yo, Q-Tip, just say yes or no You don't have to string me along, like Right And don't talk down to me. Especially, you don't even know that I fucking had your back. Right.

And I never even threw that at your face to let you know that I was the one taking care of everything. I mean, maybe it was a miscommunication with you guys on the table. No. I mean, I'm trying to benefit the doubt. We all know Q-Tip, man. He's abstract. Sonny the therapist. Yes, man.

Hey, here's the thing. I think. But you got to work it out. Yeah, yeah. But somebody should never underestimate the power of a person in front of you. You know? And I may chill, be cool or whatever. But if my back's up against the wall

and I have to flex, yeah, I have the means. Yes, you do. But I also don't hang out with certain people because I know that if I have an issue, they want to accelerate shit

to the worst level. And I'm like, so I have to stop hanging out with a lot of people that would ride or die for me like that because that shit will get me killed. Right, right. No, let's stay in positive energy.

Yeah, man. I'm more about helping people, pushing hip hop, and... Coming to dream champs. Yeah. And make some noise. And let me tell you, yeah. Here's the thing. You do not understand.

Number one, I'm proud of you guys. Yeah, thank you. Because, you know, not many people can maintain their relevance this long. You do not understand. Number one, I'm proud of you guys. Yes. Thank you. You know, not many people can maintain their relevance this long. Thanks. For this game. And giving it to our heroes. Yeah, yeah.

Because, hold on, let me just stop you for one second. I don't mean to make this about you, but you're a hero. Thank you. Like all the things that hip hop has received a black eye for a long time. Yeah. And sometimes our own fault. Absolutely.

Okay. Yeah. I know the dumb shit that I've done in my life. Right. Right. Okay, let's finish Quick Time with Slam.

Well, he was saying, he was talking. Oh, I forgot. Either way, I got love for both and we already drank. Okay, yes's try. Oh, I forgot. Either way, I got love for both of them. We already drank. Okay, yes. New Jack City or Juice?

New Jack City. Okay. You don't need to explain unless you want to. No, I just didn't like the fucking last line of Juice. I'm like... Well, you got the Juice now? Because you remember when that word finally came, that word came out?

Yeah, it was just corny. You got the juice? It was bad. Juice was corny? Not the movie Juice. No, no, the way they used it. The way they used it, okay. Well, maybe the way they...

But I mean, Juice is a great movie. I mean, if you listen to that line and then you hear Rakim say, sip the juice. To DJ, no, to DJ. Okay. Where we at? This one, I don't know where you're going to go with this one.

You saying it? Yeah, I got to go. I got to say this one. Nas or Jay-Z? Nas. Wow. I bought, and those are two of my top all-time MCs, but there's no other album in every form that I bought more than Illmatic.

And what you mean in form? From CD, vinyl, CD to live, everything. Yeah, because I DJ also, so that means your records get fucked up or stolen or whatever. And you got to have that Illmatic. Illmatic saved my life. I got to do the next one. Yes, you got, got to have that Illmatic. Your Illmatic saved my life. I got to do the next one.

Yes, you got to do the next one. Vinyl or tape? Vinyl or tape? Vinyl. And that's the EFN answer, too. I think you should take a shot just for that. Relax, relax, relax. The next one's a good one for me.

Kid Capri or Red Alert? Red Alert. Okay. I know Kid Capri before he blew up. I know him from 1980 when he used to hang out with this other crew over on the Upper West Side. So, yeah, I knew him before his 52 beats. Was he the Italian Stallion at that time? No, he was...

You know he happened to? No, I know, but he called himself that? I think he used to hang around this group called the Shamrock Crew. And the funny shit is that they're fucking Shamrock Crew, but they're all black. And I didn't get that. And Shamrock means Irish, right? Yeah. I'm going to tell you a funny story.

So we're in a Zoom meeting one day, and this brother walks in. It's like a recruitment day. And, you know, we bug out. We're all stupid. But, you know, if somebody say something funny or something to make you think, you're going to say something. So you said you had the Zulu meeting. Zulu meeting in Bronx. Recruitment day.

In the 90s. Recruitment day. Yeah. Like, yeah, okay. So this dude, there was this one crew that comes in and they were all Puerto Rican. And they're like, we're called the Leprechauns and Bambaataa's like,

okay, well, if you're going to call yourselves out of what you are culturally, why are you calling yourself like that? Like, you like Lucky Charms or what's your deal? And then this other brother, he was super dark skin,

Ethiopian style and this motherfucker says, yeah, my name is Spook and we're like, this motherfucker. Like, yo, what the fuck? Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

The Hibiki has kicked in. No, no. All right, let's finish a quick time of slime. I want to talk about, okay, go ahead. Studio 54, Latin Quarter. Latin Quarter.

Yeah. I've never been there, but I did perform at Studio 54 in 1980 or 81. But you say you've never been to where? Latin Quarter. Never went to Latin Quarter. But you're picking Latin Quarter. Yeah.

Because Latin Quarter for hip-hop is legendary. Right, right, right. Yeah, I respected that. Respect that, yeah. Okay. You want to do the last one? No, go ahead. Take this one. So me and that, yeah. Okay. You want to do the last one? No, go ahead. Take this one. So me and EFN, we always say that this is the only one that everyone should kind of take a shot for

because we believe one goes with the other. But it doesn't matter. You can do whatever you want. It's loyalty or respect. Ooh, loyalty. Explain. Loyalty is the definition of respect. We agree. Yeah. That's why we're taking a shot for that. Explain. Loyalty is the definition of respect. We agree.

Yeah. That's why we're taking a shot for that. Yeah. That's not why we're taking a shot for that. We're just taking a shot. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I like how you break it down.

Let's just be honest. You want to elaborate on that? Like, why is loyalty the definition of respect? You can still respect someone, fuck up on them, but you can still be loyal to them. You know? I can fuck up on you. It could be whatever's going on in my own head. All you money.

Yeah. Thanks. But intent is everything. I don't intentionally mean that shit. Yeah. But intent is everything. I don't intentionally mean that shit. And at the end of the day, we could be at odds, but if we have a certain amount of history between us, when you're at your worst moment, I'll be there for you

no matter what. I respect that. Yeah, I'm that dude. I respect that. Let me ask you, when you've traveled internationally battling, what country has been the biggest headache in battling? Who really was a force to reckon with internationally? Here's the thing.

Big battles, international battles and all that stuff, I've never really had to do. But what I recognize is what other people bring to the game. And a while back, I went to Russia to this place that's close to the border of Kazakhstan. And... Was Borak there?

He was battling. And here's the thing. All these little white kids are like the best dancers in the house. They got fucking mad soul, flavor, rhythm. And I'm thinking, like, what kind of pain did these motherfuckers go through? Right. You know?

And then they told me that they were from, like, a war-torn area. Oh, yeah. Those were areas. And to me. Really in pain. Yeah. So, growing up the way I grew up and all the violence around us, I was like, yeah, I get it. Like I can see like, like when, like either you have, I feel like either you have

soul or you don't, or you just haven't found your lane yet. Right. But when you see people who are dancing and it's not theatric, it's just the real pain that they show. I think that's dope, and I can relate to that. So it was there in that part of the world. Sometimes I feel like you could be the dopest, visually dynamic person, but if I could walk away feeling your emotion as you're rocking out, that's more important to me because I'll remember that more. And I'll never forget those kids now. Like I'm bringing it up now.

I don't know them, never met them, but they left an impression of soul in me. And that was better than any movie. It feels like in that part of the world, and we've talked about this story several times, like they really fight to have hip hop in their lives. Because we went out. We had we went out we had nothing else we went to Russia and the people that brought us out were called hip hop Russians against racism

that's an oxymoron bro and then they had the buttons and I've had interesting experiences in Russia no Russia's hardcore. I was brought out there by an oligarch. Oh.

Which is... What? Oligarch. The people that run shit banks. The richest motherfuckers. Yeah, they run shit. Like Putin's people. Like the people that...

Yeah, these are like the richest people. And when you're talking about power, these people can just like open up a bank in the middle of the night. That kind of power. Right. Yeah, so I've had to deal with it. Yeah, Russia's an interesting place.

It was good. It's financially good. Right. We didn't enjoy ourselves. No? We went to the club and the security has keymasked us. Well, let me connect you then. I got the plug.

He's just talking about one time. We got to try it again. Let me connect you then. I got the plug. We got to try it again. After they stop fucking warring, the Russian people seem like... And the one who made this right here, he also used to be a stick-up kid too. Man, he's throwing you under the bus.

This motherfucker used to walk around with a big-ass blade. This motherfucker corporate. Yeah, no. Crazy Legs said, come out. We couldn't. Crazy Legs said, come out. And Sonny did a murder yesterday.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, but, you know, I think, number one, I don't know if you ever hurt anyone, but, you know, we actually used to go stick it up with your brother, too. Oh. Wow. With, with. never hurt anyone, but we actually used to go stick it up with your brother too. Wow. With. I'm going to tell you how dumb shit was back then. We were so young and I'm not going to

throw their names out there, but there was these two kids that we stuck up outside of a graffiti like an art supply store. They had just stolen whatever they'd stolen, and then we robbed them. And then a week later, they became part of my crew. Makes sense.

Weird shit. But let's get to this story, right? The New York City Breakers, they were originally floor masters. And you handpicked the floor masters because according to their story, I believe this is their story. Their story is convenient. Damn, that sounded like...

But their story was you guys picked them because you thought that y'all could beat them. No. So we had this show coming up in the Grill Nightclub and that was like 1982. And we were tired of doing shows So we had this show coming up in the Grill Nightclub, and that was like 1982. And we were tired of doing shows where we would perform a battle against each other. Each other, yes.

And we knew we had these little rivalries in the city, like New York City Breakers. Some of us went to Kennedy High School. And I was just like, yo. The same way I selected Dynamic Rockers, which got them into Star Wars, I selected New York City Breakers because it's like, yo, let's have a real battle. Right. And yeah, that's how. And then it's funny thing is that Michael Holman, who became their manager, he asked us that same night, like, hey, I want to be a manager. And we're like, it's me, Frosty Freeze, and take one. And again, arrogant, ignorant motherfuckers were laughing in his face.

Like, nah, get the fuck out of here. No, hell no. And he ended up meeting Floor Masters that night. And that's how they became New York City Breakers, because he started managing them. So Floor Masters became New York City Breakers? Yeah. managing them. So Floor Masters became New York City Breakers? Yeah. Did they have other... I swear there was Floor Masters out here in Miami.

No, it may have been a different crew. Okay. But they didn't have chapters like that. Floor, Floor. Floor. Floor, Floor. Floor. You know Flo? Who, from the commercial? She gives you your insurance? Flo, right.

But I'll tell you a wild story, just for your show. We in. One day we go to Dan Ceteria, right? And we go on a night that isn't our night. Okay. And this is the place where I... What do you mean, isn't our night? Like, we had that party that went from the grill, went to Dan Ceteria.

It was called Wheels of Steel. And y'all would have them Tuesdays and Thursdays? It would be on, like, Wednesdays. On Wednesdays. Wednesdays. That was y'all night. Because then it turned, the name of the party was Wheels of Steel Wednesday. Okay.

And so we go on a different day. I'm like, hey, you know, the guy, this guy who's a legendary doorman, Dan Ceteria, he ended up being, like, the guy at the Palladium. Not John Googie Rivera. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a guy named Howie. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, I was trying.

Him and I got beef, but whatever. So, we go into Dan Soteri, and we go in there, and we're all dudes from the hood, and it's just all gay. All right, well, this might not be our night. Not spikes. This is real.

It was a gay party. It was a private party. It turned out that it was gay. And we go there, and we're looking on on stage and there's guys on the mic and then all of a sudden he brings someone up on stage and dude starts giving him head on stage and we're like, yeah, we're like, yo, alright, well we gotta

get out of here now. Like, this ain't our scene. Whatever. Let him do that thing. So I get outside and I'm like, yo, Howie, um, this happened on stage. Like, what's going on? Oh, that's Freddie Mercury. Oh, shit's going on? Oh, that's Freddie Mercury. Oh, shit. From Queen.

Freddie Mercury from Queen. Wait, he was the one getting head? Yeah, on stage for his birthday. And I'm like, yo, what the fuck, man? It's crazy but legendary all at the same time. Hey, I may as well bring something good, right? I don't know what to say. You know Freddie Mercury, though, right? From Queen?

No, you don't know who it is? Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. From the group Queen? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The lead.

Bohemian Rhapsody. Trying to change the subject. Yes, but no, so my point is that. But damn, on stage? Here's the thing. No Instagram back then. No, for hip-hop back, yeah. For hip-hop back then,

the reason why hip-hop became successful was because there was a genesis of the reggae scene, the punk rock scene, and what was happening in the hood. Right. So all those things coming together, it was just like a culture shock. And we're like, yo, these motherfuckers are wild or whatever.

But at the same time, even with whatever the gay scene was, and even if a lot of us were raised homophobic, a lot of that scene, they're the first ones to give us a stage. It's the counterculture side of it. Everything was counterculture. That's punk, reggae, it was all counterculture.

Our manager was a punk person. There was a lot of gay people within her world. And those connections that she had to put hip-hop on stage was from that community. The same here in Miami. of the first hip hop parties were at known gay clubs. The parties weren't gay

but the only people that would allow the parties to happen in their venue were venues that were doing gay events. That's facts. The person who The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything

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I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company,

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What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's true, it's true. It's true. It's true.

Man, y'all had y'all moment, man. No, no, no, no. Hey, hey, hey. Listen, the spot that I brought you at, that spot that I brought you at, oh! No, no, no. I'm just saying. Don't throw me that.

You've been throwing that ever since. I'm not throwing you. It is what it is. It is what it is. That was a venue that was that. It's business. It's business. But is what it is. That was a venue. That was that. It's business. It's business. But here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Either we can confront our reality. Bro, it is what it is. Or we can bullshit our way through life. It doesn't make you anything different than who you are. It just makes you a fucking better person to be able to be like, all right, cool. Well, no problem. Whatever. able to be like, all right, cool, well, no problem, whatever. You know, but at the

end of the day, you can't deny that if you want to talk about how hip-hop got its platforms, its first platforms, you might want to question who those people were. Because there may have been people there who were looking out for you that you actually

grew up not liking. Expand on that. Meaning that if you're a fucking homophobe but you don't know that, and you love hip-hop, but you don't know that a lot of those clubs were clubs that were owned by gay people or run by gay people,

but gave hip-hop its first platforms, it's like, oh shit, and then you're going to hate them? I'm not a homophobe. I don't give a fuck. It ain like, oh shit, and then you're going to hate them? I'm not a homophobe. I don't give a fuck. It ain't hurting me. Right, right. That's real.

That's real. So let's talk about USA Skating Ring. You went out there in Queens and you said you broke even. Ah, yeah, yeah. So we went out to their turf. And to me, if I battle you on your turf with your crowd, and by audience, it's a tie, I'm thinking in my mind, yo, we've smoked these motherfuckers.

Right. Like, I'm in your neighborhood, and it's a tie. And we're not bringing our own judges. So we ended up getting a gig at Lincoln Center August of 81. And when I'm watching Lincoln Center's in Manhattan, I always thought Lincoln Center was in the Bronx. Mm-mm. But what center is in the Bronx? You think about Fordham.

Fordham, okay. Fordham, because Fordham has a Bronx campus. Okay. So I invite, you know, that's how we ended up battling Dynamic Rockers for a second time. And that's when it's like, Rommelzy's on the mic. I don't even know who the DJ was, but it was the first time hip-hop was at Lincoln Center.

Right. And that was just like the definitive, like neutral ground, like we smoked you motherfuckers. And like if you were to interview them, they would never talk about it. It never even comes up in their history. Mr. Lee, you over there making noise and you over there making noise.

I don't understand. Mr. Lee is bored, bro. He's bored. You're the only one talking. You're the one who starts the show. Yeah, he makes the fucking speech. Everyone be quiet. No one breathe.

No phones, no talking, no breathing. Be quiet. Listen, we know the Dominicans got hateans Got hate on Puerto Rico, we know that I'm going to tell Mr. Lee what to do Mr. Lee The Minneagans and Puerto Ricans did not get along Late 70s, oh my god They were like the new Hicks

We already went through our phase Oh shit Crazy legs, not me Hey, but it's true though At one point, we were them There's always a new group We went through our phase. Oh, shit. Crazy Legs said it, not me. Hey, but it's true, though. At one point, we were them. There's always a new group. And now in New York, well, I'm not going to get it.

They'll get offended if I bring it up right now. Oh, now Mr. Lee's like, I can talk now. You always had people with us at the handball court. Because we were nice. Yo, but, but, but, yo, bro, how the hell are you have the Benjamin Button disease? You reversing ageism. You still looking young. Is that the exercising of dancing?

Actually, I slacked off on my exercising. I love boxing. That's my first love right there before dance. So I love doing that. And yeah, my girl fucking be on my case because she's Japanese and she eats different. Yeah, no, I think a little bit of denial goes a long way. Hit the gym a little something. I choose not to be overweight as best I can. And that's difficult because throughout my life, I've been through a lot of injuries. If there's like the $6 million man, that's me. I've had maybe seven surgeries.

I probably need three more. What's the guy, Evel Knievel? Yeah, Evel Knievel. You do the Evel Knievel. I remember him. And, you know, it's crazy because I'm a part of hip-hop, which the element determines when you stop. You know?

It's not me. The element decides that. Right. It's like, all right, your body's done. Right. You can't. You can spit bars. Yeah, hopefully.

I can't dance the way I used to. No, I'm going to talk shit for the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, it's all good. Shit right here is cool. Yeah. I ain't injuring my elbows no more. No, no, no, no, no. Your elbows?

I used to be going out, going, your elbows got injured like this? I used to be like out, going, ah! Your elbows got injured like this? I used to be like this so much, ah! Oh, my shit, my shit hurt. You got a carpal tunnel on your elbows? You know what's the crazy thing?

Had, and this is like the main turning point for me as a kid, is that I was scheduled to be in the Junior Olympics for boxing. But I didn't have

the $14 registration fee. And that was when it was like, okay, well, I'm going to be dancing instead. So, you know, boxing is my first love. I love fighting. I don't mind getting punched in the face. It's cool. Was it B-Boying in the Soft Olympics? Was it in the Soft Olympics?

It was in the Youth Olympics. It's called the Youth Olympics. In 2018 in Buenos Aires. Okay. Yeah. Cool. And now is it going to get in the Youth Olympics. It's called the Youth Olympics. In 2018 in Buenos Aires. Okay. Yeah. Cool. And now is it going to get in the 20? It's in 2024, Paris.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, I still have my reservations because I need to see how it plays out. There needs to be a pathway that leads back to the hood that creates a level playing field for black and brown people to be able to have access to the resources that gets them to the Olympics. Because it comes from us. And if it comes from us, we should have that first opportunity at a level playing field. they also going to create some sort of ambassadorship program that leads into communities to educate people on how we as a people

contributed and created this. How does this system work? These people come compete and then if they win the Olympics, they get the gold medal or whatever. If they lose, they go straight back to the hood. That's it. And so for me, at the end of the day, is the Olympics the great fucking international platform?

Yeah, it is what it is. But basketball is in the Olympics. Yeah. But the Olympics will never be the NBA So we need to maintain our shit When it comes to like those Independent events that Hip hop throws and continue to support those Because the Olympics is

Once every four years To make hip hop and the people here The elite Just like NBA is the elite And that means that we have to lift each other up Instead of take each other down That's real. That's real.

Could you imagine people training to be in the Olympics as B-boys and B-girls and they don't even give a fuck about hip-hop at all as a culture? I can imagine that. Like, I want to train to play handball in the Olympics.

Yeah, but you're Puerto Rican. You weren't playing handball. That's right. I think handball deserves to be in the Olympics, bro. And I would like. Oh, I thought it was. No. Hey, I'm going to tell you right now.

They called it some other shit when it was in the youth Olympics. They called it some. They called it patiwa? No, I forget what they called it. It was hell. So not one, like right now, one of my missions is, can I raise some sort of money through some sort of corporation or organization that is hip hop to support the people that are representing breaking in the Olympics? Because right now, there's not one hip hop entity that's supporting any B-boy or B-girl in the Olympics right now.

So you're telling me Rock Nation is not? Nobody. No Rock Nation. Zero. Rock Nation. Zero. Rock Nation. Oh, Rock Nation. Yes. boy or b-girl in the olympics right now so you're telling me rock nation is not nobody no rock zero rock zero rock nation oh rock nation yes so you're telling me no one uh revolt no one absolutely no bad boy and these people need and here's the thing they need clan nobody no one zero mass appeal nobody what about rock steady i would tell you, if we had the resources I'd do it immediately, no problem I mean, I should be Maybe these people don't know

Maybe we should say that Maybe this is where it happens You know, G-Unit No, but shouldn't Rocksteady be like consultants to what they're doing, to oversee Yeah, but then you have to figure out who are the people leading Cash Money Records.

I don't think the record labels should be a part of it. I don't think they care enough. I mean, to sponsor, yes. Sponsor, maybe. We need some bread. Sponsor, yes. You know what I've watched? I watched this golf tournament that it was similar to that, where if you win the golf tournament, you get everything.

But if you lose, you get nothing. But the people that. But that's like a national qualifier. Yeah, but the people that don't get nothing, they still have private jets. They still, because these people sponsored them just because they had their logos on them. Yeah, yeah. Shouldn't it be something like that? And that's what I'm trying to advocate

for because I know the brothers and sisters that are in it, and it's crazy because 600,000 gets them through the next year into the Olympics to be able to make the qualifiers, hire a trainer, you know, meal programs, all that stuff. Doesn't it start at the qualifying level, like the DMC? Like, shouldn't it be like that? Yeah, it does.

But I know the people who are already guaranteed to go in, who have done enough already. But it's like they may have have small sponsorships here and there, but there's no one footing the bill to say, yo, you're good from here to the Olympics. There's not a pasta. That shit only costs $600,000. That's it. Each person or the whole group?

The whole group. Oh, wow. To give them some peace of mind and be like, yo, I don't have to work. I can just focus on dancing. You know? I mean, if it's Olympic, that's the way it should be. Yeah, and the fact is that, like, that shit was born here.

Right. There's a lot of rappers' watches got more than that. Yeah, so the thing is, if you look at, I think, a lot of the other countries, they're supporting their people. The country. U.S. is not. Not one company in the U.S. But let me ask you, is that hip-hop's responsibility?

But that's why I said first, there's not one hip-hop entity that has stepped up. But maybe we don't know that. But actually, what he's saying is the U.S. I know one stepped up to inquire. I'm not going to bring them up, but You're not bringing up nobody, bro. Can you have another shot?

Give this man another shot, and we're going to pray. At least you know how I get down. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, but you know what? This is, and I'll take a shot, too. This is hip-hop safe zone. I believe that people, our forefathers, you know, co-signed this show, and it's not about, you know, blowing nobody up. It's just about telling the truth, not to say, you know what co-signed this show. And it's not about, you know, blowing nobody up.

It's just about telling the truth, not to say, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because I had a brother on here the other day, and we went, and, and, and, and. And then he says to me, you know, this is going to get me in trouble, right? And I go, it should, right? No, it shouldn't. It depends on the content. Listen, I say this a lot.

Maybe I didn't say this on the show, but the truth is more powerful than the lie always. If it's the truth. Yes. No, if it's the truth. Let me finish. Then go for it. The truth is more powerful than the lie

because a lie, if you don't identify with the lie and correct the lie, the lie will go away eventually. But the problem is that everybody has their own truth nowadays. No. Not when it's four niggas at this own table and everyone say, I remember that. That is one million percent

solid truth. Right. And when you try to run away from that, it's going to pop back up. That's all. You know away from that, it's going to pop back up. That's all, you know what I mean? Hold on, hold on. Come on, come on. Come on, I got it.

I'm going to tell you, when it comes to the truth, the way I see it is like this. There's a lot of people that I know, I know that deep shit, that dirty, I know that dirt.

But even if they die, is that the safe zone? Because when they die, they still got kids that got to fucking live that legacy. True. Come to the mic. I don't want...

The mic, crazy mic. So I choose to make sure that, you know, honestly, like if we did dirt together and you fucking, even if you turn your back on me, I'm still not going to snitch. Right. You know, because it's bigger than that for me. And that could be my own ghetto trauma, stupidity or whatever it is, but that's just how I live. Rob Markman, That's your morals. Everybody should have moral grounds that they stand

on. B-Boy originally stands for Bronx Boy? Yes. Yeah. So we established that break dancing isn't what B-Boy is. So when you see people from Brooklyn calling themselves a B-Boy and people from Queens. Is that laughable? Yes.

No, no, no, no, no, no. So, no, because shit evolves. And that's cool. It's only when you're not that. So I was in San Francisco in like around 93, and I go to this event that Run DMC is in. You asked Run DMC about the B-Boy, and they say, because when it came to Queens,

it sounded fly. Yes. Damn. Damn. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I was like, because I was sitting there, and I'm like, fuck.

To tell you the truth, as a Queens person, I wish they had a better answer. Or was that the correct answer? I appreciate that because then we found out that Jam Master Jay was actually a B-boy. Oh.

That he actually danced? Yes. Jam Master Jay in everything was a B-boy though. Yeah, yeah. He was 100% a J. He was the guy. He was the guy. And I had beef with them too. Jam Master Jay in everything was a B-boy though yeah he was 100% a J

he was the guy and I had beef with them too wait wait with Run DMC wait wait wait you had beef with Run DMC

why? oh man during the Source Awards which Source Awards are we talking about? I'll tell you when Run DMC was performing

it was in the 90s and Rocksteady DJs at the time, Mixmaster Mike, Huber, and DJ Apollo, they were performing at the Source Awards as Rocksteady DJs. And they did their routine in rehearsal, did the Peter Piper routine in rehearsal. Peter Piper. Yeah, yeah. They did that routine.

No one said anything. So during the show, they started doing that. Run is going to perform after. So they're pissed off because nobody wants their music played before they perform. And they pulled the plug on them in the middle of Madison Square Garden. And I'm sitting like in the front row and I just. Put the plug on Run DMC? No, on the DJ.

Run, run. On Run. Run, pull the No, on the DJs. Run, run. On Run. Run, pull the plug. On the DJ playing his music. Yeah, on the DJs, I'm saying. Yeah, he pulled the plug on the DJs. On all three of the DJs. Yeah, I feel that.

So I ran up into the stage in the back audience, and me and him started talking shit. And I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Because, okay, let me stop you for a second. Recently, I see Wiz Khalifa come on stage and do the same thing. He berated a DJ. He went in on a DJ. And then I see every DJ in the world. Oh, you mean?

Yeah, yeah, that was why. Kind of like go against the business. The situation you're describing. No, this is different. No, no, this is different. Because they did a rehearsal. Everybody knew what was going to be played. But in the middle of the show in front of a packed audience of 7,000 people,

there's a Paramount Theater. They're going to go pull the plug on them and humiliate them. They came from San Francisco to do this show. And these are legendary DJs. Yeah, and so, you know, me and Run mostly got into it. And, you know, he was up in the stairway and I'm trying to get at him and people are holding me back. Because they say, yo, I'm not going to let you bully my dudes. They're my crew.

I don't give a fuck who you are. And yeah, that was it. I'm still a fan, though. Did you have an afro at the time? At that time, yeah. Did you have a blue sweater? No. You envision his blue sweater? No. All right, cool.

You envision his own outfit? I envision him, like, you know, like, you and Gary, now, I got to take a pee, too. You got to take a pee? Hold on. Nah, I'm good, man. All right.

I had to put this up like this, right? All right, before I... All right, this is... This is a pre-question, but, um... I got to ask it. Because I see people trying to recreate it.

Can Fat Laces ever come back? We started Fat Laces. That 99 cent store? Oh, that 99? Don't tell me the Fat Laces came from the 99 cent store. No, from elastics that would be used for, how do you say it? What's the word I'm looking for? People who are seamstress and shit like that.

So that's how we started from our perspective. Even before that, fat laces was about taking regular laces, wet them, take the tip of the iron, press down, and then widen them out. In the 70s. And then, yeah, yeah. Who made the creases? I don't know, man. You got to ask. Cat.

That's some older dude shit. And I seen that in Payton Fall, and they was asking for the creases. Yeah, I used up my creases on the Lees. On the Lees. The Riders. You used to snatch Lee patches? No, there was this place called Martin Brothers on Fordham Road,

and then they had a patch that said Onyx. And those are like the high-end Lee Riders, but that was the spot we got our Lees over there. I used to snatch Lee patches and collect the Mercedes Benz. Oh, yeah. Everybody did that. We did it in Miami. That's some late 80s shit.

And the Cadillac. I was a Cadillac. I was so poor. I would pop this shit and put it in all that car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to do that here, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to think I was dip.

I was like, look at this. They're like, yo, Lil Papi, we know you don't got a fucking Cadillac. We're not clapping for all that. I just want to be clear on one thing. Salih's on one today. So to me, when I talk about the negative shit in my life that I've done or I've been a part of or experienced, it's not to brag about it or celebrate it. It's history, man. It's just, no, yeah, it's history, but at the same time, you know, to be able to turn your life around and just walk away from shit

before it hits that next level, you know, there's a lane for that, too. Right. You know, and I guess trying to show people, like, yo, you know, yeah, we all come from, a lot of us come from a fucked up situation. I can tell you shit that'll blow your mind, but when people hear those stories, but they don't hear like, hey, but I'm doing this X, Y, and Z right now, you know, we got to give that contrast to give them some clarity. Like, yo, my dude, you don't have to stay stuck on stupid or be susceptible to that

peer pressure. And I think that's the power of hip-hop, to be honest with you. Although hip-hop has a bad rap and there's a lot of fucked up shit, but I think that's the illest part about hip-hop. It's turned a lot of people's lives around. It's given us lives. It's given us careers. It's given us pathways outside It's the most powerful music in the world right now. Fuck that shit.

Yeah. But not just musically. Yeah. In its totality. Art. Yeah. It's amazing. Art is selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars now.

Yeah, like my boy that was just tagging and bombing and fighting in the streets over fucking tags, now he's fucking selling his shit for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You know, like. It's amazing to see that. To see B-Boys and B-Girls that were just these hood kids in the neighborhood dancing, traveling the world. That's amazing to me.

And you danced for Queen of Elizabeth. Of Elizabeth? Queen Elizabeth. But she's of Elizabeth. And Madonna. And you grinded on Madonna. You grinded on Madonna? Yeah, before she blew up. She loved herself from hip-hop. That picture out there was taken by Henry Chalfant,

and it was at Dance Interior. Did you cock her, man? Be honest. No, honestly. Wait, did you give her the business? Did you give her the business? I'm going to tell you right now. So, all right.

So, she used to come to the Roxy and hang out, but before that, again, we were at a dance at Terrio. I saw one of her first performances there, and before she became like Madonna, before she had a single out. But when she used to hang out at the Roxy, she'd be hanging out with a lot of my boys who are Latino, and I'm sure Mare has some stories, because you probably know some of my boys who are latino and i'm sure mayor has some stories

because he knows you probably know some of the people who went to hang out on her crib was homie dude from hola records the main the jellybean jellybean benitez and her were that was later a little bit later okay okay so yeah but the thing is is that i was never into white girls but she was let's let's be honest she was she was kind of in tune with hip-hop early on absolutely early on yeah for. Early on. Yeah, from the 80s, yeah. And that's because she met us in Danceteria. Right.

But I wasn't into white girls, but a lot of my boys used to go and hang out at her crib. You went and caught Madonna, bro? Nah, fuck that shit, bro. I was only dating black and Puerto Rican girls back then. That's it. Oh, come on. It was Madonna, man. You danced for Queen Elizabeth.

Oh, Queen Elizabeth, yeah. So when we went to perform for Queen Elizabeth, I'm over here looking at her like, you know, I got to shake her hand, and she had these jewels around her neck. Did she smell like marijuana? Nah. I'm just playing with you. I'm just playing with you.

She had these jewels around her neck, so I'm supposed to be looking at her in her eyes like, you know, Your Highness or whatever, and I'm like, be looking at her in her eyes, like, you know, your highness or whatever. And I'm like, damn, I want to snatch that shit. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I did not think he was going to say that. Nah, I mean, again, and that's that double life shit. The mentality. Did you know what it meant

to dance for the queen? Did you know what it meant to dance for the queen? Did you care? Nah, we didn't give a fuck. Wait, wait, wait. This is a two-part question. Did you know what it meant to dance for the queen? Did you know what it meant to dance for the queen? Did you care? Nah, we didn't give a fuck. Wait, wait, wait. That's important.

This is a two-part question. Did you know what it meant, or did you... I didn't know what it meant. Okay, all right. Maybe... Yeah, that's real. Wait, you didn't know... Yeah, I didn't know what it meant.

You didn't know, because we grow up. We don't know no queen. It's the president. Coming from the hood, like... And the Mayor Dinkins. Yeah, you want to meet James Brown. But you knew who she was, though. That's a heck of a lot more, you know?

But you knew who she was, what she was. Yeah, I didn't meet James Brown. But you knew who she was, though. You know? But you knew who she was, what she was. Yeah, I didn't give a fuck. Okay. I didn't care. Wow. Yeah, it meant nothing to me. I didn't grow up that way, you know?

You got the pic? You got the pic? Oh, this is the pic? With Madonna. We got the pic. We're going back to Madonna. I'm going to ask you again. You're not going to call Madonna back in the day? Hey, man, leave me the fuck out of this.

Holy shit, Crazy Legs. He was again. You're not going to call Madonna back in the day? Hey, man, leave me the fuck out of this. Holy shit, crazy legs. He was outside. Let me see. He was outside. It's in the group chat. He was outside. Yeah. You're right. Your throat was... Yeah, but she was cool. She was cool. I'm not going to front.

She was not a virgin. Absolutely not. For the very first time. I doubt that. Like a virgin. Yeah. And then homegirl Debbie Mazar used to hang out with us. His brother dated Debbie Mazar.

And that was when she was called Debbie M, right? Yeah. Y'all had an amazing time, man. Let me take a shot for y'all. It was fun. Let me have some shots. One time, we end up, we get... I noticed how you're not sticking away from the shots.

No, good. Look, I think... Give him a shot. Oh, yeah, I'll take another drink. All right, then. So one time, we get invited to go to a recording studio because some recording artist is a fan of ours, and they want to surprise

him with a like in studio performance and this is like 1982 and he's like one of the biggest artists out there and we go then it's fucking David Bowie oh sure you too huh no no no David Bowie let's dance David Bowie now not YouTube. Who's on YouTube? David? I'd sing, but it's bad. Let's dance, put it on your screen. Okay, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so we were having, like, interesting times. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1,

Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app,

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Right. Meeting, like, really bugged out punk rock people. You didn't meet Prince. Nah, I didn't meet Prince. Michael Jackson? I met Michael Jackson when I worked on a bad video. Tell us about that. Wait, you were on the set?

Yeah, yeah, I was in it. Who was in that set? Wasn't, uh... Wesley. Wesley Snipes. So I auditioned with Martin Scorsese for that part. Really? Martin Scorsese did that video?

So we're not going to leave with that? We're not going to start with that? I don't know. It's not important. It's all relevant. No, so I auditioned for him. And I knew I didn't get the part immediately because he was just like, yo, you know, like, when you live a little, I think you'd be a really good actor.

And I'm like, I don't know. He said live a little. Yeah, like meaning more wisdom. Life experience. Right, right. Yeah. Like meaning more wisdom. Life experience. Right, right. Yeah. So Wesley got the part. And I ended up being an extra on the train scene in the long version of the video.

But I got to hang out with him, take a picture of me and him. With Michael. Martin Scorsese. I didn't even know who Martin Scorsese was. I found out years later. So I'm like auditioning, not giving a fuck. Don't know who he is. Huh?

You sent it? You're on your job today, man. But in that picture you're looking at, Kadeem Hardison is in there too. Yeah. Yep. Kadeem Hardison is right there. So how was Michael? Before he blew up?

You interacted with Michael on that set? Did you and Mike do cocaine? Huh? Mike didn't do cocaine? Huh? Mike didn't do cocaine, bro. I felt like Mike was just going, pulled out a bag. I mean, he might tell me that Michael did acid all of a sudden. All I did was ask him for a photo and an autograph. Were you starstruck by Michael, to be honest?

Yeah, absolutely. Because he was Mike back then. This is the 80s. I mean, he's the biggest pop star in the world. Yeah, and on film sets, there's a certain decorum. You can't really cross certain lines. Right. And he's not just that one Michael.

You got Michael from the Jackson 5 who's already a celebrity. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Right. So. That's great. It's real, man. It's cool.

God damn it, man. We've come across some interesting people like Tina Turner, Gene Kelly. You dealt with Tina Turner? Yeah. Tell us. So we were going to perform in Holland. You're high as hell. Huh?

Holland. Yeah. Space cakes? Space cakes? I don't remember, so maybe, yeah. Space cakes. That's Holland. That's Holland.

So, yeah, so there's a- Not Hollandale. No. Maybe soon. Drunken Dragon coming soon. Holland- Not Hollandale. No. Maybe soon. Drunk and Dragon coming soon. Hollandale. Goddamn, make some noise. Look at him.

I'm sorry. Yeah, no, she just wanted to meet us. We were all performing on the same show. And it's kind of like this person wants to meet you. And we're super young. So we still don't really know who the fuck she is anyway. You don't know who Tina Turner is? Back then? Did we care? young, so we still don't really know who the fuck she is anyway. You don't know who Tina Turner is? Back then?

Did we care? Damn, dog. The witness thing is like the message. I know it's crazy. We were looking in back now. You know, UTFO. We don't give a shit about that. You know?

So, yeah, we met her. That happened with Gene Kelly, like another surprise visit. That's the kiss? Gene Kelly? Oh, no, that's Gene Simmons. Yeah, right. Exactly. Gene Kelly, legendary dancer, tap dancer, all that shit.

But yeah, we lived some ghetto rock star shit. It was cool. We didn't cake up back then. Cake up? At all, you know? In terms of what? What's you up to? Oh, I don't know.

I don't know. I got my Columbia brother that says kicking up means something different. But who's somebody that told you they was a fan that you was blown away from? Well, the queen was a fan. She was an actual fan. You talking about Queen Elizabeth? Yeah, she was an actual fan. She was an actual fan. Really?

Yeah. Rest in peace for her. She ain't trying to break that. George Michael. I mean, come on. He was a fan The comedian No man

George Michael The singer The pop star Oh shit Yeah he was a fan George Carlin So they used to have Like fan mail back then

And in the fan mail It's like all these questions That the fans ask And then you fill out each one So in his answer When he puts music That he bought Or who he's into, he put Rocksteady

Crew. That's dope. Yeah. God damn it's a nice Rocksteady Crew. So who in hip hop were you a fan of that you met that you kind of were like fanboyed out? That's within your own world though. Like Grandmaster Kaz is my hero. you know uh charlie chase is also my boy uh but yeah i would say grandmaster kaz because he represented the battle right in every way so and i you know i'm all about the battle so how old are you when you first meet him fuck i was a fan of his and watching from the outside the ropes in 70, I probably saw him in 77, 78. I don't remember when he got into Code Crush,

but whenever he got in, that's when I became a fan of his. And so it was Home Alone 2 that you were... I was an extra. It was an extra at Home Alone 2. And that's the same place that you used to rob people in. That's what it is. I asked you that earlier.

Yeah. And I did a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so it's funny because we had a certain name, and I'm not going to get into it because I'll get canceled immediately. All right. I mean. You know what I'm talking about.

The area in Central Park, we had a certain name for it. But, yeah, in 82, I think, was the highest crime rate of Central Park. And let's just say I was associated with a lot of people involved with that. And him being one of them. Damn. Come out, you're caught. And the crazy thing is that, you know, at a certain point, you had the Guardian Angels. Like, we had confrontations with them. They were confronting y'all?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't know how to take that. Because, you know, at that age, you're thinking, like, maybe they... The Guardian Angels with the... Yeah, yeah, the referees. Yeah, they were like... Referees, yeah. So, you know...

We found out all of them was on cocaine as well. Huh? We found out the Guardian Angels... Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, man. It was dudes like us who acted like they really knew karate. And we believed the shit. I believed them, too. And by the way, riding the train, seeing the Guardian Angels, being 9 to 11 years old.

You felt safe. I felt safe. I cannot front on them. Were they necessarily evil in that time? Probably. I wouldn't even say they were evil, man. No, I felt safe. I cannot front on them. Were they necessarily evil in that time? Probably. I wouldn't even say they were evil, man. No, I'm saying, I don't mean evil.

Who was the guy that deleted it? He had a tail. He was Italian. He was Italian. No, Sliwa. He wasn't Italian? What's his name? Curtis Sliwa.

He's Latino. He was Latino? Who? The dude, the main guy? Yeah. I thought he was Italian. Sliwa? I don't know.

There's a documentary on... No matter what he was, he wasn't one of us. Okay, shit. Yeah. Shit. And that's when they had, like, Hector Camacho and all these other dudes doing, like, anti-graffiti campaigns. Hector Camacho did an anti-graffiti campaign?

Yes. Am I right? Who else? Celia Cruz? Celia Cruz to the anti-graffiti campaign? No, but, yeah, but look at it this way. The outer world of our existence was paying our own people

to campaign against us. Right, right. Well, New York City, they had a big campaign against us. Wow. It's kind of like how Trump took an ad out against these brothers from Central Park. Same shit. Rob Markman, Wow. That's horrible.

Yeah. Rob Markman, Let's talk about Jimmy D and Jimmy Lee, the founders of the Rocksteady crew. Then how did you meet them to get down Rocksteady? I met, so there was this place called Mom and Pop's Disco on Crotona Avenue in the Bronx. You love Crotona Avenue, man. You got to buy Crotona Avenue. I mean, that's where I started.

Yeah, you got to buy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had an accident on there? That's where you first got? Huh? You had an accident on Crotona Avenue? What do you mean? No, no, no.

Didn't you fall or something like that? Oh, that's where you made the windmill because you didn't want to fall. Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, right. So Jimmy D, I met him at this place called Mama Pop's Disco, which was an underground nightclub. This dude, Little Angel, Puerto Rican Cat, used to be the DJ there. And it was where a lot of the premier B-boys and B-girls would be, especially within the Latino community.

All right. So I went there like maybe 77, 78. And at this time, sorry to cut you off, but B-boying is probably more important than MCM and DJing? No, everything was dope. Everything was on the same level? Everything was on the same level. Okay, continue. And it was all fresh.

Yeah, it was all dope. All fresh, yes. Because you got to remember, like Kaz, Melly Mel, all of them used to be B-Boys. Right. So they always had a relationship. And when you have people like Jimmy D and Jimmy Lee, who were notorious at the same time, they were going to get their respect no matter what, because they were a threat. Mm-hmm.

You know, so, but, and these are two fucking dudes that never grew up to be tall. Right. You know, and, but they were... Meaning they were short. They were fearless. Yeah, they were fearless. And so when I... Everyone caught on.

Everyone understands what you're saying. Watch out for the little guy. Everyone knows what you're saying. Yeah, so, yeah, as soon as I met them, I was maybe like 11 years old, and the first thing they did was take me to go do snatch a purse.

It didn't work out, but that was my introduction to rock steady. The purse didn't snatch when you snatched it? The purse didn't snatch me? No, it was fucking desolate in the Bronx.

There was no one there to rob. No purses around. Nobody around. At Hunts Point, you can't rob the hookers at Hunts Point. It's like tumbleweed and shit.

Because didn't you help clean up Hunts Point as well? Yes. I became part of a program. Well, I created a program within the Point Community Development Corporation because a lot of my boys

had already dropped off. You know, so a lot of people have been murdered. And I was facing a situation of, do I go in deeper and go all the way and finish this out? Or do I just walk away and just say, fuck it, this shit is dumb? Right. And I walked away and I said, OK, from this point on, I'm going to give back to the community. I'm going to use my talent to save the lives of the people who made the same bad decisions that led to all of my boys' deaths.

Right. So I volunteered for three years at the point for three days a week teaching dance and throwing events and bringing these kids to wetlands. And we take over the club. And I put the kids at the box office. I let them sell the merch. I let them host a show. I let them run the B-Boy battle, everything,

to give them some sort of dignity and pride and understanding of how to do business. And that was like the first gentrification of Hunts Point. Yes. Because back then, everyone knew Hunts Point for one thing and one thing only. Hookers. This is positive gentrification.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hookers. He took the hookers out and he started dancing. Yeah. God damn it. God damn it. Makes me good. Walt Disney took the peep shows out

and he brung in Disney. And he took the hookers out and he brung in B-Boying, God damn it. That is something. He is the Walt Disney of Hunts Point, God damn it. But I'm going to tell you right now,

here's the crazy shit. You do shit like that and you're still like not in tune with your emotions in terms of like the damage that you've experienced in your life and how that affects you,

you know, and how much of a ticking time bomb you are of fucking tears later on when you're dealing with remorse. Right. So when you have a brother call you 20 years later and knowing that he lived right around the street or corner from a place where there's a line waiting for a crack house to open every day, just like New Jack City. Right.

Exactly like that. Right. house will open every day, just like New Jack City, exactly like that. So when they call you 20 years later, randomly at different times, like, yo, you saved my life. Like, I'm doing this, this, and this now. These other people are dead, but you saved my life because I got down with you and that shit changed my path. You were that fork in that road. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. And the crazy thing is that I was Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And I'm not. And the crazy thing is that I was still pulling myself out of some dirt. So the struggle was, again, still living two different lives while trying to go in the right direction and not fall into like, fuck that motherfucker. We should hurt him. Right. You know, it's the difference between hurt people, hurt people is hurt people helping people.

Yeah. fuck it, we should hurt him. Right. It's the difference between hurt people, hurt people, is hurt people helping people. Yeah, and the thing is that, you know, again, it goes back to not pulling myself away from people who will happily do damage. There's a person, and again, I'm not bringing his name up, he used to run this area that we're in right now. Not raw. Again, I am not saying names. Sounds like you hit it on the nose. And not raw. Again, I'm not saying names, but when I was in this area when Zulu and all these guys.

Yeah. So so when that person heard that somebody was getting sideways with me, that person was approached. Right. And I can't I can't have that happening. You know, it's like, yo, my dude, you're going to get me in some conspiracy charge here. What are you fucking doing? Right? So, yeah, it's good to have the ride or dies, but sometimes you got to walk away from that shit because it'll kill you. Right. So let me ask you, if I were to ask you this question, about 30 years, maybe 40 years ago, probably

understand exactly what you're going to say, right? But I'm going to ask you to it right now. If you woke up today, right, and you had all the hip hop history erased, and we just based in your, from what you heard from 2023 on, how much of the original DNA of hip-hop still exists right now? Mierda. Depends on which direction you're looking in. Oh, yeah, that is the truth. Yeah. Okay, so just pick which direction you want to go.

Hip-hop is divided. Uh-huh. You have the industry that thinks it's hip-hop, but doing an element of hip-hop, but could care less about the rest. And then you have a lot of self-righteous hip-hop heads. And it would be nice if we met in the middle somewhere. Okay, self-righteous hip-hop heads and who else?

Meaning that anything that this group over here does that's into the industry is horrible because it's commercial. Like, I listen to modern shit. Right. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to look at some new shit as it's not hip-hop because it's not from my time.

Are you fucking with Lil Uzi Vert? I fuck with all that shit. He breaks, too. He's a B-boy, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like crazy-like shit. You know what I'm saying? I fuck with all that shit. He breaks, too. He's a B-boy, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like crazy-like shit. You know what I'm saying? I was supposed to be in one of his videos.

That would be hard. You and Lil Uzi Vert together? Yeah. One day. One day. I just want to rock. He's a good brother. Whoa, that shit hard.

Go ahead, nigga. But I think it's there, but I think it's divided in a big way. Right. And I think that is bad for our community because that's why you have this whole other thing of Latino, whether Latinos there or not. Yeah, because you divided the elements. You divided the community. And so it's a continuation of it. What's happened is that hip hop is a commodity that is only traded in rap music.

And then the art, the B-boys, the DJs, they take it seriously in terms of turntablism. They've all been splintered to the point where they don't even consider themselves hip-hop. I can't be mass-produced like a record, so I can't make as

much. Right. So there's a big difference. I don't get royalties off of something unless it's a film that I've been in. You get royalties every time your record is played. Right. So there's a big difference. Depending on what deal I make. And think about, let's think about, if you want to put it in a conspiracy, who benefits off of the splinter? The industry that monetizes the music cannot monetize

these other elements so they said okay boom we shed that this is hip-hop but you know what's crazy i bring it up earlier how much europe to me respects hip-hop more if you actually think about it in europe the b-boy and the dj is on the same level as the mc yeah they are but it's like they're on the same level and that's how to me i agree no but it's changing it's changing it's they're they're changing with us too as well so you meaning that the mc is becoming no no they're they're becoming more americanized in their view of hip-hop well i haven't seen that i haven't been there i'm gonna agree with that i haven't been, I haven't seen that. I haven't been there. I'm going to agree with that. I haven't been there. I didn't know that.

You know, me traveling, coming home. Everyone's trying to get a bag. I've seen it. That's what it is. It's all about the bag. I don't think there's nothing wrong with getting a bag.

No, no, no. You still have the integrity. And that's the problem. There's a thing. So I've been doing these documentaries where I've traveled to different countries.

And trying to find hip-hop. Well, exploring the country through hip-hop. Right. Through the scope of hip-hop. Well, exploring the country through hip-hop. What? Through the scope of hip-hop. And in every single country, the same thing has been told to me. You guys don't do hip-hop anymore.

You do business. You do business. You are not, we do not look to you anymore. Now these places that used to look to us. As sustaining themselves. As the innovators, as the pioneers, they look to themselves and their neighbors. Like I went to Vietnam. Vietnam looks to Korea and Japan and to themselves. I went to Colombia.

Colombia by itself is doing the same thing. It's like hip-hop. Diego was there too. I think the message in hip-hop no longer exists and diego was there too and they were like i think uh the message in hip-hop no longer exists from our perspective over here right fuck you know like where's the message but we still got the kindred what's what sucks is that hip-hop is the number one cultural export of the united states to the world yeah and the united states And ourselves Do not identify that And make sense of it And make it a thing

That we could either monetize Or politicize Or make it a political thing We just don't use it In the right way And the fact that Breaking comes from The fucking backyard

Of the United States And not one of them Has been sponsored Who are going to the Olympics By anything in the United States. Right. Shows how much regard they have for us. Right.

Yeah, we're assholes. Yeah, we're fucking shit up. Well, you know what? We've been talking about this hip-hop union for a long time, right? Me and EFN, when we started this show he was like yo I forget who was sick in hip-hop and he was like wait a minute they bills wasn't paid or something like that and we were like yo hip-hop needs a union there's no way you can put in 20 30 years of work in your case 45 years of work and then you get sick and it should be on your family

like it was on your family to miss you know christmas when you was performing in france it was on your family to miss thanksgiving when you was performing in russia like why should your family bear why wouldn't we have a union that would would be nice, but until that happens No one trusts no one? I just have to operate as I operate as if no one owes me anything and I gotta handle my shit I'm responsible for my own relevance and my own finances

and how I take care of my own medical and if something comes where there's a fund for people like myself who are pioneers like if I'm well off at the moment, I probably wouldn't accept it because there's probably else. Yeah. That should be the luxury. No, no, no.

The thing about it is, especially, you know, with how we're kind of owning our own stuff now, like we're actually the era, and especially with podcasts. I would love to stop talking about it, and I would love to, like, Joe Button. Well, Chuck D, you know Chuck D, he's created something. I don't know... Well, let's down it to it. Joe Button, million dollars worth of game,

Gillian Wallow, Norian EFN. I think we should put up a couple dollars and just put it in a pot where it's see-through. Put it in Killer Mike's bank. I trust Killer Mike. And I trust his bank. And just leave that shit there until...

Not to say that we want something catastrophic to happen, but if something happens, if... No, son. But that's not the way it works, man. No, we got to make it up. No, that's not the way it works. It's not the way it works. Chuck D, I think his Karis one's involved. They got the government involved.

You need bigger funds to really make a difference. We can't take a couple podcasts and put a couple dollars in. Why not? We fucking need the dollars ourselves. But we can still empower each other. That's the thing. That's what I'm saying. If it's like empowering some people who are representing the United States on the highest level ever, get them 600 Gs or if it's...

You could raise funds. That's the thing. You have to raise the funds. But here's the thing You have to raise the funds But here's the thing Right A lot of us Don't know Don't understand How do we do that Right

Okay cool You said Chuck D Has an idea No no idea They did it They did something Okay okay Alright alright

And I feel like We should do something Right And this is something That I just learned Right I went to Opus One Right

And Opus One I thought I knew Which is a great wine By the way Yes it's a great Fucking, right? I went to Opus One, right? And Opus One, I thought I knew. Which is a great wine, by the way. It's a great fucking wine, right? So I went to the factory, right? And I really thought I knew everything about wine, right? And he gave me the 2018, he gave me the 2016, he gave me the 2022.

You should have asked for the 96. And then, no, I did not. But you're correct. I heard the 96 is fantastic. He didn't have, right? But I went through're correct. I heard in 96, it's fantastic. He didn't have. Right? But I went through it all, and I loved them all. And then he brung me what was later considered the throwaway.

We all drank it, and we all said, this is our favorite. Right? And he said, you know why? It's because that's exactly what it is. It's what you want it to be. Sometimes we can sit around and just sit around and say, let's wait for it to be perfect and let's wait for Al Sharpton to come over there and do some jump ropes

with us and then, you know, do it. And then sometimes it's just like, let's just do the right thing. Do the right thing is, let's just whatever, whatever, and if anything happens, because that's really what, You can take it as far as you can take it. That's really what insurance is, is just in case shit happened, right?

So just, so let's just throw, whatever, whatever, maybe we're not going to do it the right way, maybe we're not, but the fact is, I will feel fucking awesome

knowing that a hip-hop legend caught a stroke, and for us as podcasters, we stepped up and said, his family bills are taken care of. That shit, I would... Yesterday, I couldn't sleep at night. That wouldn't make me sleep at night like that. But let me tell you this.

This is you helping yourself. Let me rebuttal you this. How am I helping myself? I don't plan to do this. Let me give you a rebuttal. Okay. If Chuck D, who I trust, has always had the best interest of hip-hop in his heart, if he's leading... Chuck D ain't coming to drink jams.

No, but... Chuck D ain't reach out back to us. You know what? Chuck D don't even answer my phone calls. Okay, okay, guys. Chuck D, there you go. That's between you and me. There you go.

All right. Chuck D should have been here. Chuck D done did white media Crazy Since we reached out He said he does not do interviews And all of a sudden He's been doing Every other interview Okay that's your beef

So let me just finish That's not my beef It's our beef Let me finish Okay So if he's doing something Him and there's a coalition Of people involved

And they're doing it The right way My thing is Let's contribute To what they're doing Because if we're But why they contribute To what we're doing He's right way. My thing is, let's contribute to what they're doing. But why they contribute to what we're doing? We've been saying this for seven years. No, but hold up.

But then it goes back to the splintering of everything. Oh, B-Boys do this, and graph writers do this. Okay, you know what? You do that, Chuck D. Podcasters do this. Fuck it. We're all going to do it different because it's going to make me feel better. No, bro.

I want to contribute to the movement that is going to do it right. The organization is going to do it right. No, because we've been speaking this for seven years. And I've been watching the fans for seven years tag this man on Twitter. I follow him on Twitter, Chuck D. And every one of these other people. And guess what? None of them have ever hit me on DM.

None of them have ever pursued that. So I'm tired of waiting for our forefathers, our near fathers, our close fathers. Why didn't they reach out? You mean to tell me, you mean to tell me, hold on, EF, and let's just be clear. They didn't reach out

to us to do it? Let's just be clear. No, no, no, no, no. Why didn't they reach out for us to be a part of it? You mean to tell me every time they say something or every time something like that

with a hip-hop union is brung up, I love our fans on Twitter because you know what they say? Nori and them have been saying this for seven years. Absolutely. For seven years. For seven years.

And I'm not willing to talk about it no more. I'm willing to put, the same way I'm willing to invest into Drunken Dragon and Hollandaire, which I'm doing, the same way I'm willing to invest in Foxhole, which I'm doing, the same way I'm willing to put up a couple of such and such just to have an account just in case if Maxwell fall and break his ankle, let's help out!

If something's stuck, I'm fucking around. Here's the thing. So for me, as a dancer, there are times when I've had insurance and I didn't have insurance. So whatever I had in the bank went towards my surgeries. Right. So with our lane as dancers, we get fucked up the most. Yes, y'all do.

And we're all taking care of ourselves. Right. I've come out of pocket so much money for the shit that I do just for the love of hip hop. Right. So there's a lot of people out there who are representing. And I think that's probably like the most injuries, you know, for dance. just for the love of hip-hop right so there's a lot of people out there who are representing and i think that's probably like the most injuries you know for dance you know in hip-hop but uh you know god bless yes the hip-hop funerals that you go and start to see and you'd be like damn this is not taken care of that is like like that's i i mean andFN, I don't know, because I had a rebuttal with you.

I don't want you to say that I'm disagreeing and I'm disagreeing with Chuck D and what he's doing. The problem is we're so available. We're so out there and our platform actually exists. Our platform actually exists where. Weekly. Guess what? Weekly. Your platform is a force.

And guess what? Guess what? Chuck and whoever, who else is doing it, maybe... And Chuck is a fan of the platform. Maybe he said he's willing to come. Maybe. Maybe y'all didn't want to come here. But at least let's promote your platform on this platform.

Because this is what it's made for. It's made for us. Because I guess what? Go ahead and try to go to Hot 97. Now they got 94.7. The beat. Let's big up Cypher Sounds, Miss Jones. Cypher Sounds, Miss Jones.

I think Mr. C is over there. And there, actually, this is another station besides Rock the Bells. And I love Rock the Bells. But Rock the Bells cannot say that they did not base what we were doing. And we were giving our legends their flowers. And we still are giving our legends their flowers. Of think we were in the forefront of a lot in this current moment. I'm actually an equity owner of Rock the Bells. Come on, God damn it.

I love what LL's doing. I love Rock the Bells. They reached out to several of us, and they did give us equity in the company. That's beautiful. So I got to salute them. L is a beautiful brother. L is doing great things with Rock the Pants. Yeah, I got nothing. I will never have anything bad

to say about it. Okay, KRS-One and KRS-One have launched a union. Alright, cool. And I'm mad. Why are you mad? Because they should holler at y'all. Because come on, man. No, no. I understand, but you can't get mad. I'm playing, but I'm not playing.

The thing about it is we can't be outdated. Like, we can't be sitting around and do something that was brought up publicly on this show for seven strong years. But we live in an era where nobody even sees everything. Yes, but there's someone in his camp, just like George Clinton just came here. George Clinton, I can tell he never saw an episode of Drink Champs in his fucking life. And I loved him being here anyways. But his grandchildren said, this is the place where you're supposed to be. Yeah, that's true.

So you mean to tell me that once they set up that campaign, it wasn't no one who said Drink Champs was saying this shit for seven years. They've been trying, they've been waving. But maybe they've been saying it for 17 years. We ain't hear it. I ain't hear it in their records. I got every one of their albums.

I'm just saying. I got every one of their albums. We don't know. I got every one of them. I ain't hear it. We don't know. We don't know. Gotta give the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I've been to this MySpace, motherfucker. It's on Black Planet. You've been to MySpace? Yeah, yeah. I don't know why he said that. BlackPlanet.com, you said? He throwing us the fuck off.

Or Fear the Black Planet. But I want me to support that. I'm not saying I don't support it he said that. He throwing us the fuck off. Or fear the black planet. But I want to support that. I'm not saying I don't support it. I'm saying I have no control over that. I have nothing. I have no information of that. Cool. You know, our engineer just sent that to us.

This should be front page news. It's probably the problem that it's not front page news. Guess what? Not ours, but it's the media. Guess what, sir? In case you don't know. We got to make it that. Every time we drop, we front page news.

Yes. We front page fucking news. Yes. Regardless if we want it, and sometimes we don't even want it. We don't want it. Definitely. There's a lot of times where I'm like, you stay in Kindu and I'm staying in y'all. I didn't do it.

There's a lot of times we don't want fun, straight news, but this is something. But we care about the community. We care about hip hop. But this is what we have to do. It can't, like you said, it can't be a KRS-One, Chuck D thing, and a Crazy Legs thing, a Rocksteady thing,

and then a Drink Champs thing. Okay, cool. Maybe it's not a Drink Champs thing. We all need to come together. We say podcast, and we'll handle it all part because we couldn't handle it because absolutely,

if we could have, we would have did it seven years ago. So let's just do to the people. We know that Joe Button is happy from doing what he's doing. We know that a million dollars worth of gain. These are people that we can

come and talk to and say, listen, let's just... Maybe it's a podcast fund. Maybe Chuck D and them is the... Jerry Lewis telethon. Is the rap. And then...

But the thing is sitting around and doing nothing and sitting around just sitting around sitting around and sitting around it makes us seem like we're just talking. I don't want to talk no more.

I don't want to talk no more. Let's see if we can fit in. If we can't, then we don't. At the end of the day, you source out the needs, you raise the funds, and you put that shit into work. I agree with what you said. You said raise the funds. That's also what we're doing. And not only that,

we want to give back. It should be something like that. what we're doing. And not only that, we want to give back. It should be something like that. When we give back. There's so much beautiful things that we obtain. And it's not always about finances and riches. It's about, okay, man. Yeah. Like, look at that shit.

Look, that's George Clinton artwork. Yo, he did that right there behind you. He came and did that. Look at that. That's all. I got a did that right there behind you. He came and did that behind you. I got a George Clinton story, but I can't say this one. What's the other artist's name? I always want to give him. Jonas. Yeah, with George Clinton.

They both did that together. Come on, let's give us that George Clinton story. Let's go. Is acid involved? There's something involved. Was he open about shit like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, let's go.

Cocaine and everything. Yeah, he was open. He was writing an open book. So it was like a Zulu anniversary, and I'm over here like, you know, I'm thinking, you know, nothing but the dog in me is in the back, you know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden, like, I'm taking him to, I had to drop him off at his hotel as a favor. Right. And he just started like, he opened up a little packet in the bag

and I hear, and I'm like, yo, this motherfucker's wilding in my car right now. Ain't nothing but the dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were like,

I could have sold it to him. All stuck him up. I never sold that though. I thought you said you bought eight balls. No, I bought something to, oh yeah. All stuck him up. I never sold that, though. I thought you said you bought eight balls. No, I bought something to, oh, yeah. Just sell them to the player. Come on, man. My memory is good.

Oh, you only sold them to the player. I don't consider that. Oh, you're like, my highball don't matter. You was an international boarder. That doesn't count. It was a quick hustle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't a dealer.

That was my boys. Oh, my God. Yo, man. Crazy legs, man. Let me just tell you something. You're a legend of a legend. That was my boys. Oh, my God. Yo, man. Crazy Legs, man. Let me just tell you something. You're a legend of a legend. Thank you. Absolutely.

Thank you. We clearly made this show for people like you. Hip-hop 50. I know you kind of said you didn't agree with hip-hop being 50. You said 47. But I'll stand with it. You'll stand with it? I will stand with it.

You'll stand with it? And in your opinion, you said 47, 48? 48. 48, which is two years off. And that's, you know, we're pretty much all drug dealers. I think that discrepancy is fine. Yeah, so it's like, round it off. You did acid.

That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it stayed by 50. Two years, you might have crept because of the acid. You know what I mean? You never know. But that was, yeah, because two years for the ecstasy. It's like, it's gone.

I mean, but we want you to know you're a legend. Hip hop owes you. Yep. And not just b-boying, you know, because, you know, it's crazy. Like, you look at these records now. These records have a dance to go with the record. Yeah, yeah. Dance is still there.

It's a part of it. You know, but for me, I've always felt like I'm hip-hop before I'm a B-boy. Because when I got into the game, I saw, I witnessed everything happening without any kind of label over it. It was just what was happening,

like a girl doing double dutch. You lived it. You were it. Yeah, so for me, I'm always hip-hop before I'm a B-boy. But we want to show you love. Is there anything you regret before you got out of here?

Not finishing school. Holy shit. Definitely. Damn. I was on that path. I ended up in Hunter College, and I used to— That's in the Bronx, huh? No, Hunter College is on 67th Street.

You never went to school in the Bronx? Yeah, no, no. College, no. Well, I did go to Bronx Community for a minute. Okay. Then I switched to Hunter College and then me and this dude, why am I forgetting his name?

Ah, God, not the rock, the other one that hates him. Vin Diesel. We used to go to Hunter College together. We used to hang out. Yeah, we used to... You and Vin Diesel went to school together? Yeah, we went to Hunter College together. Did you almost forget you went to fucking

college with Vin Diesel? Did you almost forget that? Yeah. Your life is dope. Make some noise for that. But he used to be a B-boy. He was a B-boy first. Yeah, he was a B-boy first. Was he Vin or Diesel at the time?

He was Vin. He was just Vin. He wasn't Diesel. Vin B-boy. Did you know Vin Diesel was his security guard? Oh, come on, bro. Mr. Lee. So we used to hang out in a cafeteria at Hunter College and try to pick up on the girls playing spades all the time. So Vin Diesel from New York?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Where you talking from? Turks and Caicos. But yeah, I mean, you know, hopefully all this stuff in detail, we are working on a couple of films right now. Me and Fat Joe and Eve Rivera are working on a

Latino contribution in hip-hop documentary. You guys could get Dream Champs involved in it. Yeah, of course. I mean, we want to definitely do it as something that's educational. We don't want to cause more divide. Just provide data. Yeah, we want to provide data for people and say yo boom if you're not sure this is where right who and when and now if you want to

be an that's up to you right you know and so there's that and then we're doing the rock steady documentary right now um uh which is uh all going to be from my perspective. And then there's a few other things on the table. We'll see what happens. Is Rocksteady synonymous with Zulu? Is it one?

No, not at all. We're our own thing. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, so there's a lot of good shit. You know, for me, it's about my festival

in Puerto Rico, working on these films, and then a lot of good shit. You know, for me, it's about my festival in Puerto Rico, working on these films, and then a lot of relief work, but expanding beyond Puerto Rico. Because with all the shit that just happened in Turkey, I felt like, wow, I know how to bring people, you know, the opportunity to have clean water. I know what that takes. But, you know, then you start needing more financial resources to make that happen. You've seen the dude, and I've mentioned, and I'm sorry I don't know the guy's name right now and I've mentioned him before, he has the

machine that extracts air into clean water and it's from the United States. That dude is incredible, man. We did, I mean, we did shit. And he's donating his machines to a good cause. Tesla was donating a bunch of shit, too.

Elon? Yeah, he donated. Elon, Elon? Elon, yeah. I was like, hold me. I call him Elon. So they, during Hurricane Maria, they- Elon.

Elon. We were, there was this one community that we went to where their source of water was like 200, 300 feet down. And there was this really old 1973 diesel generator that the U.S. government dropped off during a hurricane. Like, here, figure it out. And Tesla donated these batteries that would generate the water 300 feet up to a community of 800 families. Tesla did that? Yeah. Wow. So we helped.

Well, Eli's doing his thing. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So we helped. Yeah. Well, Eli's doing his thing. Oh, Eli is all right. He all right with the yalla. He let me go crazy on Twitter. He's a little wild boy. He a wild boy.

I'm just playing, man. Yo, Crazy Legs, man. Thank you. I'm going to be honest, man. You rock steady. You know, all the things

that you contributed to hip hop will be remorse to not, you know, always throw flowers at you and always, you know all the things you contributed to hip-hop will be remorse to not you know always throw flowers at you and always you know respect what you do and i i'd like you know i enjoy this when i when i get the pioneers and i get the legends when i get the icons and i just explore their history like i said for a month i've just been walking around like you. That's why my big boy, you see my big boy, he fell. Because we thinking about, you know what I mean? Like, man, B-boying, me learning B-boying and breakdancing is two different things. Me learning that breakdancing is actually a frowned upon word.

Yes. It was frowned upon. But now, you know, but it's crazy me even learning that. But breaking is not. Right. Are you saying break dancing? It's kind of like when you say salsa, you just say salsa.

Right. You don't say, hey, we're going to go salsa dancing. Right, right, right. So, man, we just want to tell you, man, our show is based on, you know, giving legends and, you know know people that's been in this game for more than 10 years they flowers because you know let's just face it hip-hop is the only

age ism music yeah there is yeah pink floyd and you know all these other people can go you know that's what i said gene simmons earlier That's the dude with the tongue, right? People don't even know he's old because he had on makeup his whole face. It's still goddamn time. And he can go and tour and he can do this. And no one says he's washed up. But they don't have elements either. And that's the difference between hip-hop as well.

They're just music. They're just music and drugs. We got everything else. We got to figure it the fuck out. Because the last time I checked, you know, if you take a good meal and you season it correctly and you put it in there, the fridge, and you get it out three days later and you take that out well marinated. It's still good. It's fantastic. You know what you think about it?

You put that, you know what that's called? Seasoned. Chunji. Yeah. That's what the fuck. Technically, hip hop, if hip hop is about 50 years old, it's just realizing its own wisdom. It's the adobo seeking in. I think.

It's still young. If it were a human being at 50, you know, a lot of us are coming to terms with our own remorse, regrets, all kinds of shit. And at 50 years old, you're still busting nuts. Holla. The individual

can come up with those things, but when you've been hijacked by corporations, it's a whole other mixed beans. Enough of us are still alive

to make shit right, you know, or at least plant the seeds. We may not see it in our time. Or at least speak it. I mean, we can't do it for the sake of seeing it in our lifetime because that's unrealistic, you know? And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J,

the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything.

Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts This is an iHeart Podcast We have to just plant the seeds and hopefully that shit

works into something for somebody else later on I think it will I'm good with that I think we're doing it It ain't about me It ain't about us I like the back and forth.

It works. Yo, man. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate that, man. Thank you there. Thank you for the flowers. I'm not going to stop drinking. I'm going to keep going.

You're going to take some pictures and do some drops, and then we good. I'll be over there. Holy shit, yeah. Go to the bathroom. Yeah. I'm going to go to the bathroom. Yeah, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great episode. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production in association with Interval Presents. Hosts and executive producers N-O-R-E and DJ E-F-N. From Interval Presents, executive producers Alan Coy

and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by yours truly, DJ EFN and N-O-R-E. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials. That's at Drink Champs across all platforms,

at TheRealNoriega on IG, at Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to drinkchamps.com.