Drink Champs - Episode 362 w/ Robin Thicke

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode the Champs chop it up with the legendary, Robin Thicke!Robin shares stories of singing for Pharrell and Jimmy Iovine, his father Alan Thicke and the TV show “Different Strokes”, Michael Jackson and much more!Robin also talks about the 20 year anniversary of his debut album “A Beautiful World “.Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss!!Make some noise for Robin Thicke!!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 *Subscribe to Patreon NOW for exclusive content, discount codes, M&G’s + more:  🏆* https://www.patreon.com/drinkchamps *Listen and subscribe at https://www.drinkchamps.com  Follow Drink Champs: https://www.instagram.com/drinkchamps https://www.twitter.com/drinkchamps https://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps https://www.youtube.com/drinkchamps  DJ EFN https://www.crazyhood.com https://www.instagram.com/whoscrazy https://www.twitter.com/djefn https://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions  N.O.R.E. https://www.instagram.com/therealnoreaga https://www.twitter.com/noreagaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What it good be, hopefully this is what it should be This is your boy N.O.R.E What up, it's DJ E.F.N And it's Drink Champs Yappy I will make some noise. When we started this show, we wanted to dedicate the whole show to legends,

to pioneers. This man is not only a legend, a pioneer, an icon. I didn't even know he was writing songs in the 90s. He's stood the test of time, been out here, and I'll be honest with you.

I mean, I had this little process of Googling the artists, and I'll tell you, this is probably the funnest Google I've ever been a part of. Like, I got to ask, because it's so much crazy when you Google them.

It's like, some of this shit can't be true. Like, some of this can't be because it's so much crazy When you google him It's like some of this shit Can't be true Like some of this can't be Because it's so illustrious It's so The man is literally Born into royalty Literally

This is And It's a frame That I just found out It's called blue eye soul I did not know what that is I did not know what it is But we're going to learn today.

So in case you didn't know who we're talking about, the one, only, right, motherfucking day. Now that's an introduction right there. Now, I got to ask this off top. Yes, sir. Wayne Gretzky babysat you? Damn. Well, my

dad, you know, my dad was a devout Canadian. He was the American-Canadian dad. So he came up with David Foster, the great producer-songwriter, and Wayne Gretzky. Those were his two homies. So I was lucky enough when I was young, David Foster would, I'd get to visit,

my dad would take me to the studio because my dad knew I wanted to be a singer when I was seven years old. So he would take me to the studio because my dad knew I wanted to be a singer when I was seven years old. He would take me to the studio to visit David Foster when he was working on the Natalie Cole Unforgettable album. When he was working on I Will Always Love You. The great, one of my favorite stories is, I come home from school one day, and David Foster's sitting at the piano with Kevin Costner

and this tall, beautiful black woman, right? And they are working out how to do I Will Always Love You on my dad's piano in the living room. Oh, Whitney. Because David was working on another project around the corner at a different studio, and he needed a piano in a room

to practice this song that Kevin Costner wanted to do for The Bodyguard. So I walked in on that, just coming home from school. My Wayne Gretzky story is even better. He just threw that out there. I just came home to that. Yeah.

No, pretty wild growing up. But yeah, my Wayne Gretzky story is even better. He just threw that out there. I just came home to that. Yeah. No, pretty wild growing up. But yeah, my Wayne Gretzky story. My dad took my older brother to Russia for a summer vacation, and Wayne was dating Janet and needed a place to stay in L.A. They wanted to hang in L.A., so he stayed in my dad's bedroom for like two weeks. I'm going to Joe Torre baseball camp every day in the valley in Los Angeles. So the phone rings about 7.30 in the morning. One morning, I answer the phone. It's Bruce McNall, the owner of the Kings. And he says, can you please wake Wayne up? And I said, no, no, no, he's sleeping. I'm not going in there. He said, I need you to go and wake him up. So I go,

I wake Wayne up. I go to Joe Torrey baseball camp. I come home. Wayne's on the podium in Edmonton saying that he's been traded to the Kings. So I answered the phone the day that Wayne Gretzky was traded to the Kings. That's when he left Canada. Maybe he didn't make it, but you should have woken him up earlier. My one cool, fabulous story with

him was he took me, first time I'd ever been in a Rolls Royce. He had a white Rolls Royce convertible, and he took me to McDonald's. That's a ball state. That's a ball state. That's a ball state. I'll never forget being in the drive-thru with Wayne driving in a convertible Rolls Royce

in the valley. And yeah, so a lot of stories like that. Thanks to Pop. Shout out to Alan Thicke. Yes, yes, that's the piece. So your mother was, what show she was on? She was on Days of Our Lives. She was on Days of Our Lives.

And she was a singer also, right? My mom also had a hit with an R&B singer named Carl Anderson. She had a number one song in the 80s, Friends and Lovers. Wow. So I'll be your friend. That's my mom singing with Carl Anderson. So you know, we've been trying to be black for generations. This ain't brand new.

I have a joke because my grandfather was a jazz trumpet player. His father was a jazz trumpet player. So my joke is we've been trying to be black for six generations. No, but I'll be straight on. Different Strokes. Your father wrote that? And sang it. That's my dad singing it. Different Strokes. Different Strokes. Yeah. Your father wrote that? And sang it. That's my dad singing it.

That's your father on Different Strokes? Different Strokes it is. That's my dad singing it. Yo! Yo! Today's all ears. What's it say?

Yo! Okay, okay, okay. That's what I'm saying. When I Googled you, I said, this is so amazing. And had he done sitcoms yet at that point?

No, no, he hadn't. Actually, he was always a writer and he wrote the original Wheel of Fortune theme song that point? No, no, he hadn't. Actually, he was always a writer, and he wrote the original Wheel of Fortune theme song. And my mom sang the facts of life. That's my mom singing the facts of life. That was my next question. That was my next question.

I have a publishing chance. Oh, good for you. Jamie, I'll take some champagne. I'm wanting some champagne. There was one funny story where, I guess, Merv Griffin, who owned Wheel of Fortune, my dad wrote the original theme song, and after a few years, my dad was making bank and Merv Griffin's like, who's this Canadian dude making all this money? So he rewrote his own theme songs so he could

own it. Yeah. Wow. Let's make some noise for that, man. I'm sitting there reading. And by the way, we do this for, um, I'll be artists and'm sitting there, and that's my friend over there, Diego. He gets hyped for nothing. And he's over there like, oh, shit! He just kept reading it, and we were like, it just kept going, kept going, and I was like, it was like, so, how is, how was your childhood?

Like, if you, you, shit! Like, I want to call you a platinum spoon, not a silver spoon, because you had Wayne Gretzky babies in you. Well, my dad was just the most friendly, sociable person you would ever meet. He loved Hollywood. He was from a small mining town in northern Canada, 10,000 people. He dreamed of Hollywood, loved Hollywood.

I joke because people are like, oh, you Hollywood. I'm like, I'm as Hollywood as it gets. I was born in the sign, you Hollywood. I'm like, I'm as Hollywood as it gets. I was born in the sign. You know what I mean? But yeah, so my dad loved it. My mom is a great singer and actress. And so I just grew up in that. But what I really loved about my father was his ability to make friends.

Right. And legitimate, long-term friendships. When he passed away, the people that showed up for him, even if it was Leo DiCaprio. Yeah, they was on the show together that was leo's first job and lee so leo and i've been homies ever since we were sitting in the classroom together at 14 years old you know so your homies list is it i'm just saying like i was googling this i was like i was sitting there like some some of this got to be made up. You know, sometimes you go Google yourself and people will say shit about you.

But this is crazy. So, okay. Did you know growing up you were royalty? Did you know that? No, well, you feel... Because you seem humble. You go somewhere.

I think because I saw it so young and my dad handled it so well with such class and kindness. You know what I mean? So I just really appreciated the way my father treated people and I just wanted to emulate that and follow in his footsteps. Was he like his character in Growing Pains? Because that's what you're describing. Very much.

I mean, he was a little more naughty. You know what I mean? He had his run hosting all the pageants and had a little fun with that for a while. But no, he was just the most lovable. He was the kind of guy who would golf and play tennis. His whole week was worked out from 6 a.m. till 11 p.m. His whole week was planned. He had dinners every night with friends and somehow never paid for a goddamn thing.

My dad golfed three times a week with friends who had memberships. My dad would play tennis with people who had the cords and the hookups. So he found a way to save his money, leave it to his kids, and I look up to him. He's my idol forever. Let's make some noise for that. That's all we can aspire to be as parents. Yeah, I'm trying to save some money for my children. Now, I'm always enthused when we have guests

and we ask their drink list. So that's like my favorite part of the whole show. So when I ask your peoples, and your peoples say, he drinks D'Ussé, I say, oh he hood for real. I support D'Ussé, I'm part of the D'Ussé family. Obviously, I'm with Rock Nation. Jay Brown and Jay-Z are family. And when I was doing this residency in Los Angeles last year,

we did about 15 shows in L.A. at this small restaurant. Only like 250 people. 500,000 people trying to get in every week. No, this was just last year, just because I wanted to, I wanted to do a real intimate show. No smoke, no lights, like right in front of people.

So, D'Ussé sponsored all these shows for us and we got to have Lil Wayne came out and 2 Chainz and it was, it was been a great run.

You got mad records for Lil Wayne. I got like seven records for Lil Wayne, yeah. I was like, these niggas got an album they can have on their dance floor. This is like a collaboration album. Wayne, yeah. I was like, these niggas got an album they got with a damn name. This is like a collaboration album, I'm looking.

That's my boy. How is that? You know, coming from R&B world and colliding with hip hop, it's always special. But when I'm hearing you guys together, it's like it doesn't seem forced at all. No. Is it because you and Wayne is friends? you but when I'm hearing you guys together it's like it doesn't seem forced at all no like it's because you and Wayne is friends we were we were genuine fans of each other before we blew like

when I heard go dj I mean you know I mean he was already blowing up but when I heard go dj I was like this is the next biggest artist period I told Andre her and he was like you think so I was like trust me Dre this this is the one and coincidentally, he just reached out to me. The first song on my debut album, A Beautiful World, which is the 20-year anniversary of my debut album. Make some noise for that. So we are celebrating. And so he heard this song called Oh Shooter on my debut album,

and he just hit me up out of nowhere and was like, yo, I love this record. Can you send me the tracks? Do you mind if I do something with it? And I was like, sure, I'll send it to you. And he didn't even take any of my parts out. He just wrapped in between where I wasn't singing. And it ended up being on the Carter II album, you know what I mean? Which is amazing. So how did you and Pharrell hook up? Well, actually, let me finish a good Lil Wayne story. So the first time that Lil Wayne ever

did the Tonight Show and the first time I ever did the Tonight Show, we did it together. The first time either one of us ever performed on the Grammys, we performed together. So we have, we did Tie My Hands, you know, and he did the big New Orleans thing when he did the year of the Carter III. So him and I have a real history together. Right. Yeah. I think it's a beautiful thing, man. I like hearing y'all together. I like hearing y'all together.

He's genuine, too. He's the man. I got mad notes. You want? I want to go back to the relationship with Andre Harrell. Yes. Yes. A lot there. How did you guys connect and what was that relationship like? Well, he was moving to L.A. to start a record label with Babyface.

And they were looking for songs for these couple artists that they had signed or were interested in signing. So Dre had, there was this artist who was kind of more of a dancer from Miami, like a more dancer first, singer second, you know. And so Dre comes to my house with Pete Farmer, a veteran A&R man from Arista. And Dre comes in and I play a couple songs. And he's like, that's cool, but the way you sing them. He's like, I like the way you sing in these songs. You were singing? I was selling them for his other artist.

And he was like, but I like the way you sing. He said, you got any of your own songs for your own album? And the funniest thing was just the way the world works. I had just devoted myself to making my debut album, actually creating it. I was about 20 years old when I met him. Or no, a little older, like 22, 23. And so I just started A Beautiful World,

and I had the first two songs that I was going to put on the album. I sang those two songs for him and he didn't want to work with the other artists anymore. He was like, I'm hanging with you, we're doing this. And he lifted me into his New York City, Puff Daddy, Naomi Campbell world. I remember I had a Halloween party before my album came out.

Mariah's dancing on the dance floor. Naomi's there. Seal is there. Paul Thomas Anderson, the award winning director. And Ted Demme. These were the people just hanging out on my balcony because they were friends with Andre. And they're in the

studio. They're all sitting there listening to my album before it comes out. Naomi's in there. Mariah was in there for a while but couldn't handle the smoke and had to walk out. She's like, it's too smoky in here. She was wearing a Wonder Woman costume with pom poms, I don't know, it was some kind of combination. So this is me at 25 years old

before I even had an album out. That's what being with Andrea Harrell was like. And because I also read somewhere that you wrote for Brandy. My first cut that I ever had published was Brandy was 14 and I was 16. And I wrote a song for her on her debut album. But how did they start knowing

that you know how to write? Brian McKnight actually would have one. I did a demo, another great story. They used to write. Brian McKnight actually would have one. I did another great story. They used to call me Brian McKnight. Barbie cut you off, but you know every line he said is a bar. Okay, Brian McKnight. So yeah, I used to call him Brian McKwhite.

Oh, Brian McKwhite. So I got another one. So I was in a singing group. We were called As One. It was me and three black guys, and one of the black guys, his godfather was Al Jarreau. So I go to my father at 13 years old, and I go, dad, we need $1,000 to cut a demo.

My dad goes, no, no, no, we're not starting that, you're too young, I'm not spending $1,000 on a demo. And so we went to Al Jarreau. Al Jarreau put the $1,000 down, paid for my first demo, I got to sing three songs on a mic in some kind of R&B hip-hop fashion. Those three songs got heard by Brian McKnight. Oh, no, no, there's one more step.

Oh, I got more bars. There's one more step. No, no. Those records were heard by Tricky Stewart, who is a young 17-year-old producer out of Chicago who had just moved to Los Angeles with his cousin and brother to start building their song basis. So we're in the studio working with the Braxton sisters and Brian McKnight

is in the studio next door. So I start writing songs and cutting songs with Tricky Stewart. I'm like 15, 14, 15. And Brian, leaving the, leaving, I would ditch school every day At around 1 o'clock I had my friends pick me up My dad didn't know I got kicked out of school later that year Because I was going to the studio every day At 14 years old

But Brian ended up hearing that demo And then signed me to a record deal At Interscope Records when I was 16 With Jimmy Iovine When I first heard of you Can I have an ashtray please? When I first heard of you- Can I have an ashtray, please? Yes. And a light.

When I first heard of you, a lighter right here. Yeah, I'll smoke with you. I thought it was Pharrell. Oh. But before I get to the Pharrell thing, I wanted to say something that you said something earlier. Did you say Wayne Gretzky was dating Janet Jackson? No, no, Janet Gretzky who became Janet Gretzky.

Okay, all right. You're starting crazy rumors. Now, that would have been a story. And then he's serving to Janet Gretzky. She went to all the hockey games. That's the way love goes, Eric. You know what I mean? No, I was thinking,

because I'm thinking for the fans, and the fans are like, wait a minute, he just said, did he say Janet without getting a last name? Yes, yes, yes. I had to make sure I was like, keep my skills sharp, you know what I mean? That makes sense. like, keep my skills sharp.

You know what I mean? That makes sense. Okay. All right. So again, when I first heard of you, I heard of you through Pharrell. Then I hit the head is Brian McKnight stories. Yeah. Andre Harrell story.

How did you and Pharrell initially get together in the first place? Well, Jimmy Iovine was always the king at that. Yo, I ain't gonna lie. Jimmy knew. The name drops. It's just keep getting better and better. The best story about Jimmy was Jimmy signed me. I remember the first time I met Jimmy Iovine,

I was in the room with John McClain. John McClain was actually the one who signed me, who runs Michael Jackson's accounts and stuff like that, one of the great A&Rs of all time. So John McClain was Jimmy's right-hand man, and John loved my voice. He took me to the record store and bought me Marvin Gaye albums

and blah, blah, blah. He said, you need a list of these guys for ad libs. You should practice. And I'm 15, 16 years old. I remember the first time I meet Jimmy, I'm in the office with John McClain. Jimmy walks in.

He goes, John, we're going to the Laker game tonight. I got courtside seats. I go, hey, I'd love to go with you guys. I want courtside seats. He goes, you can make a hit record first, and then you can come sit on the car with me. Sounds about right. So cut to pretty much nine years later, because the records I made with Brian, they were good, but they weren't great.

They were like a B album, and I hadn't quite formulated an image yet that really wasn't there, besides a young white kid with a good voice singing R&B music. So they said, we'll put it out, but we're not going to really spend any money on promotion. I was like, you know what, just shelf it, and I'll come back with something better later on. So literally four or five years later, I come back with long hair, Andre Harrell, baby face,

and a whole new style of music. And I had When I Get You Alone when I came to the meeting, and Jimmy goes, didn't I sign you like eight years ago? Don't I already have you signed? What do you mean, I got to sign you again? goes, didn't I sign you like eight years ago? Don't already have you signed here. Like, what do you mean? I got to sign you again. Wake up, wake up. And that didn't.

Whoa. So the first album was made with Andre. Um, face was more of a friend. He went, but it was, that album was all on like, you know, my musical and artistic development all came from Andre and my confidence. Like I had never met anybody who also believed in me, maybe even more than I believed in myself, who saw me bigger than I saw myself. Because Andre saw the whole thing.

He saw the fashion, the tequila. He saw the future of everything for all of us, you know? And sometimes we didn't even think as big as he did. And that was the genius of Andre. Okay. Rest in peace, Andre. Yeah, rest in peace, Andre. We love you, miss you.

But, yeah, but how did you get with Pharrell. Yeah, rest in peace, Andre. We love you, miss you. But yeah, but how did you get with Pharrell? So then Pharrell, so after the first album, Jimmy's like, we got this super talent. Okay. And,

but he didn't connect. You know, we didn't find a way to sell records yet. Right. So he says, I want you to meet with Pharrell. So I go in the studio with Pharrell.

Luckily, knock on wood, luckily I had Lost Without You in the meeting. So I show up to the meeting to meet Pharrell for the first time. We had met at parties, and he knew of my first album, so did Jay-Z. I knew all these guys, and we'd hang out at parties, and there was respect. But I hadn't had a hit yet.

So I go in, and I hadn't even recorded the vocal yet. So I sing Lost Without You live in Jimmy Iovine's office for Pharrell the first time he hears it. Obviously, right, I was signed to Star Trek, you know, the next day. And ever since then, Pharrell has done nothing but bless me with his genius. Do you think having famous parents

helped you along the way? I think it helps you young because you see an example of success. You see that it's possible, so you believe it's possible for you too. Do you know what I mean? It's just like anything in any family. If your dad's a good lawyer,

or your dad's a good doctor, or your mom does it, you can go, well then I can do it too. Dad can do it, I can do it. So it does breed confidence, but then you hit the reality of people judging you. Yeah, like a stigma against you. A stigma, right?

And then, so yeah, that affected me at a younger age. Now in hindsight, I realize that's what you have to earn as an artist. You have to earn your own individuality and your own impression that you bypass or at least parallel yourself to your parents' accomplishments. Did you feel that anybody ever treated you as a novelty in that moment? I feel like when Andre, because Andre had respect from everybody he played music for so when Andre first started playing my music for people there was a

people listened and I remember when he played some of it for either Rolling Stone or one of those popular magazines and they were like they think you sound like Maxwell and I was like is this a bad thing? I was like the guy just sold four million records. And he's good.

Sold out the forum. What's wrong with sounding a little like Maxwell? Because one of the dope new rappers out is a guy named Russ, right? And Russ, I see he receives a lot of slack because they say that his father was so powerful in the industry that they almost gave the props to his father. And that's just, we're always trying

to knock one peg out for people, you know what I mean, and take something away from their own accomplishments. And the truth is is that it does help to have a leg up,

it does help to have connections, it does help to have some financial, but my dad didn't give me the first grand. I didn't get the first thousand dollars. He had it. That might have been the best thing he did for you, though. It might have been the best thing he didn't give me the first grant. I didn't get the first thousand dollars. He had it.

That might have been the best thing he did for you, though. It might have been the best thing he ever did for me. You know what I mean? And that's the thing. That's what we all, like I'm balancing my son. My 13-year-old son has an incredible voice. He's a natural singer, and he's way more comfortable being on stage than I was until I was 30. I was a studio rat.

I literally lived in the studio 12 hours a day until I released the first album and then I started performing. So I didn't become a good performer until maybe 10 years later. So I think with my son, I want to balance the support, support, support, but you're going to have to go write your own songs, go play your own guitar,

you're going to have to make your own bones. Do you ever had a regular day? I do now. I do now. My life, you know, and happily, happily, I have four kids. I have a five-year-old daughter, Mia, a four-year-old daughter, Lola, and a two-year-old son, and they run my world. I mean, my 13-year-old goes back and forth between mine and Paula, my ex. But my kids are everything.

And I think my dad was such a great dad and I adored him so much but he was so busy during my like 10 to 18 era and he was gone on the weekends earning, because he was making the most money. He was everyone's dad.

He was everyone's dad. And he didn't really turn down a job. He just hosted everything, you know. Now that you say that, I remember as a kid seeing him host all those things.

Everywhere. You didn't even realize because I didn't know that was work back then. I just thought that was having fun. That's crazy. Yeah. No, so.

You literally had to share your father with the world. And I think a little bit of that time that I missed, I want to make sure I don't miss with my kids. But my dad, he set the whole family up. He gave us a bar, a standard, you know, to live up to. Hell yeah. I feel like I knew him my whole life. I'm 45 years old. I feel like I knew him my whole life. I'm 45 years old. I feel like I knew your dad my whole life.

You know the best thing? There isn't a set or a show I can go on or any group of backstage people that I work with that somebody doesn't come up and say how much they've worked with my dad and loved to work with him. You know what I mean? And that's the legacy. That's a great legacy. I'm going to tell you something.

I can no longer watch movies because of how much I know about how film works. Yeah. It kind of ruins it for me. The other day, I revisited Seinfeld, and I realized Seinfeld didn't shoot not one episode in New York City. Whoa. The whole shit was Los Angeles. That's crazy when you think of that. Everything.

Even the exterior. Even the exteriors? Yes. You're right. It was on set. It was on set. And they were showing. And so I'm watching Seinfeld.

This is a show that I loved back then. I still love now. But I'm watching it now. Now that I know the difference, I feel like it took away from everything. The magic. Yeah, because you're so much involved in entertainment. Does entertainment bore you now? No, I think that,

I think I bore myself. And I think I have to, sometimes I think I like to live in the challenges of life and the struggles so I can create something that actually is meaningful to me. If life is too easy, if I just go, oh, it's all flowers and everybody's happy, then I'm just going to write

flowers and happy songs. That's not who I am. I'm a soul man. I have to feel the soul of my experience so I can put that soul back into my music. God damn it, man. Where's the flowers at, man? Let's go. Come on my music. All right. God damn it, man. Where's the flowers at, man? Let's go.

Come on. Come on, baby. God damn it. Because our show is literally about giving people their flowers. Thank you. We literally want to give you your flowers. Oh, man, I would love that. Snoop Dogg said it's like a Grammy coming from the people.

God damn it. God damn it. Bro, what up? We're stretching the world. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Man, thank you. Thank you.

You know what? I heard a great quote from bob dylan once he said something like uh it's always nice to be uh honored while you're still alive that's right that's right that's right and the older we get all these little uh moments of appreciation or flowers or gratitude you know because uh we we're so much more grateful now for everything that we've accomplished and been a part of. During the ride, you're just going, it ain't enough, I need another, I need more. And sure, I want more great music,

and I want more great friendships, but I try not to be so hard on myself anymore. Right, and appreciate all the people that you've actually touched on the way. Yeah, exactly, and that's why it's good to get out, because sometimes the older you get, you just end up staying inside with your friends and your circle and your family. And you don't even feel that love anymore. And you start thinking it's not out there.

And then I go out and I see all the smiles and the faces and the handshakes and the people that want to say I love you. And if I'm staying in my house all day, I'll never get to feel that love. It's probably one of the deepest shit I've ever heard just now. That shit makes so much sense to me. I know you're talking to the world, but that moment you were talking to me, that shit is crazy. Because you and I have both experienced

similar parts of the adventure. You know what's crazy? I noticed that if I'm, you know how you ever woke up and you feel like you're having a bad day? You just feel it just from the moment you

wake up I literally can't go outside because if I go outside someone's gonna be like

hey I took a picture and I'm saying I got a fucked up date

they don't give a fuck about my fucking date they're thinking about that song

they're thinking about that music they love yours they're supposed to be on all the time

you made them feel good so speaking of that that's the one thing I hear about the music is it seems like you're a feel-good

person. Like you want to feel good. Except for when you tried to get your wife back. You was hurt. You was hurt. Yeah, well I was confused. I was confused because I knew that we weren't supposed to be together anymore. But I had just had a child. And the last thing I wanted to do was spend half of my life away from my child.

The next 18 years only seeing him three and a half days a week. That's real. So there isn't a single thing you wouldn't try. So that album was the most jumbled and confused album. Because that was the most jumbled and confused part of my life. So I said everything I was going through. One day I wanted to get her back. The next day I knew it was over.

One day I wanted to make it work. The next day I knew there was no chance. So that period. Was that your therapy, though? Oh, yeah. Music has always been my diary, my therapy. And I guess that time it didn't work. It didn't work.

Well, it might not have worked externally, but maybe internally. And I'm going to drop And I'm going to drop. I'm going to drop. And then these are the beautiful moments. So I'm at a big birthday party. All these people there. I haven't seen this person in a long time. But his daughter Zoe had been in the studio with me while I was making the Paula album she had come to visit.

So Lenny Kravitz is sitting there. And he goes, Zoe told me about the album because she heard it in the studio. And I listened to it. and I thought it was amazing. So right there, here's another peer of mine that I love and respect. Lenny motherfucking Kravitz. Let me get a blunt. And he's telling me when I sold, barely sold anything

and everybody told me it was a big mistake and he's saying I thought it was amazing, I thought it was beautiful. He said something to the respect of I really respected what you did on that album. And that's what we do as artists. We hit, we miss, but we have to try and share and tell our story. And my story at that time was all over the place. Nah, I mean, when I was listening, I was like, okay, I see what's happening.

But you tried. You tried to get it back. You made a whole album. I tried to sell the idea of getting her back, but I wasn't actually working on getting her back at the time, and that's why, because we were already done. You wanted your family together. I wrote the songs in real time.

I wrote the whole album in maybe two months, but I knew we weren't going to be back together, and that was okay. I heard this great quote recently by Jay Shetty. You guys know this guy, Jay Shetty, does a lot of inspirational stuff. And he said, people think that growing apart is a bad thing, but you're still growing just because you grew apart doesn't mean you didn't grow. And that really touched me deep because I was like, you know what? That's what happened. We were both, her career has taken off. She's got her

own life, her own career. My career has taken off. I got my own thing. We've got a baby. We're both changing and growing. But the problem is we grew apart. And that's just something you have to respect instead of take as an L. It's not necessarily an L. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

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going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our

economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

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Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th.

Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You know what I mean? Did Meghan Markle write your wedding invitations? Yes, and Meghan Markle wrote our wedding invitations in calligraphy. Yo, what kind of fucking life is this? She's a calligraphy expert. Somehow, when she was doing an interview, getting married, she said that she did our

wedding invitations. That's the kind of shit that happens in Hollywood. She's married. She's literally married to you. And she happened to do your wedding invitations. How the fuck is that? That's Hollywood. That's why I always just say it's Hollywood. Anything's possible.

Wow. Anything's possible. You know what I mean? Wow. Anything. Speaking of that, you know, growing up in Los Angeles. Yeah. Like, I see how you kept staying in the Valley, and you noticed none of us was knowing what you fucking was talking about,

because... When I say the Valley, it's an L.A. thing. Yes, an L.A. thing. Everyone else, I looked at my friends. Hartley's like, where's the Valley?

Is that in Denver? I looked at a couple of Heartland's like, where's the Valley? Is that in Denver? I looked at a couple of my friends, and they looked. But it's actually one of the toughest towns to be in, right? Because it's almost like everyone's a fucking star in California. The person bringing you your burger was on Martin in 1989, and he's just out there living. It's just like that. Is that something that you're adapted to, you're just used to, or?

I think everything has its pluses and minuses. I think people in Hollywood, they tend to think that they're this close to stardom, and the fact is a few of them are. Right. It really is. So I've seen it happen. I've literally seen somebody a month earlier,

and then the next month they're on the cover of Time magazine and nobody knows. It's wild. Things like this really do happen, and I've been lucky enough to see so many journeys realize their potential. So I do believe, even when I see my kids, I don't tell them this is not possible. Anything is possible. I've seen it happen. I've made the impossible possible.

How do you prepare them for the rougher side of that? Because the percentages are against most. Well, I don't encourage any of them to get into the entertainment business. I encourage them to have craft, to build craft. Something you love to do, if you do it long enough and you build a craft at it, you will find a place. You can't just want to be a star. You want to be a star, good luck. But you want to have craft, and if you earn the hours that it takes to learn a craft.

I spent 12 hours in the studio every day by the time I was from 16 to 20. You know what I mean? So by the time I was 20, by the time I was 22, I had written and produced two dozen Golden Platinum records. Before I had ever released one of my own songs, I had already had two dozen Golden Platinum albums.

I was on Mark Anthony's. I wrote Mark Anthony's. Yeah, you got to look for salsa, right? No, no, the funny thing was, I had this lucky streak in my late teen years, in my early 20s, where I happened to be on everybody's biggest album. The song that I wrote for Usher, Confessions. The song I wrote for Christina was her debut album, her biggest album. The song I wrote for Marc Anthony, his biggest selling American album.

The song I wrote for Maya, it was her platinum album. So I had this incredible luck. Pink. Pink's biggest album was her first album. All of my notes, all of my notes. So this was literally, and by the time I was 22 years old, I just amassed a great discography.

Who's helping you get those placements? Because that's difficult. Publishers. You have a publishing company. Luckily I signed a publishing deal when I was about 16, 17, and she would pitch me to all these artists and they'd come by our studio and we'd write a song for them

and then just get lucky to be on it. I never had the hit. I never had the hit. Always had a cut on the biggest album. That's all you need. You ready for a quick Thomas Loud? Let's go. All right, I'm doing Hobiki.

Do you guys mind if I do a quick cigarette break? Yeah, okay. As you can see, I got stories. All right, so you want to explain the game, EFN? You want a cigarette break? Yeah, okay. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. As you can see, I got storage. Yeah. Nice. Kareem. Yeah, boy, I call you. All right, so you want to explain the game, EFN?

We're going to give you two options. I just let them know, she said that I was looking a little shiny, so if they need to step in, just get driving. Oh, yeah, just don't mind. There's no. You can step in any time you need money. Yeah, come in.

But you're on camera. Yeah. Nah, we won't. Good thing she look good. I just said, if you see me looking too shiny. I can do more here. I'll do a little more right here. I got some napkins.

Yes, sir. All right. No, actually, I think the napkins are good. Yeah, a little better. Thank you. I appreciate you, Monique. All right, we're going to give you two options. You pick one and we don't drink, but if you say

both or neither, if you give the politically correct answer, we're all drinking. We don't leave you by yourself. We drink with you. But if you pick one, nobody drinks, and feel free to give us a story or anything that comes to mind from any of these two things we tell you.

Okay. You want to start, or you want me to start? Yeah, you just start. All right. Usher or Chris Brown? Well, artistically, I love both, but I'm going to have to pick my man, Usher, just because we go back 20 years. You got a Grammy together, too, right? Yeah, yeah, that's my boy.

Okay, fair enough. We go to each other's kids' birthday parties and stuff. Yeah, got to be. See, Breezy don't text me back sometimes. I'll be sending him fun videos. I'll be sending him fun videos. We hung out recently and had a blast together. But I sent him a video because my girl and her friends love Chris Brown.

When it's girls' night, it starts with these Jose and Loyal. Wasn't ready so so I be texting him from the party bus on the birthday night giving him one of these you know what I mean

sometimes he hits back so so so what is it re-seen how do you mean like like

no I would just be like yo party in your jams tonight you know what I mean stuff like that. I like to send videos to my friends when we're partying to their music. I thought you meant like, you know, when you text them back. Usher answered.

So that's why I'm going to pick Usher. Usher answered FaceTime. Usher answered FaceTime in the party bus. Usher FaceTimed with us while we were listening to Daddy's Home. Okay. By the way, I don't want to ask this one. You can doubt this one. I got you.

Nas or Jadakiss? Oh, well, I got records with both. That's another drop. Okay. Yeah, I was letting you go. I didn't want you to stop. I don't know how you can pick between those. We drinking?

All right, we're drinking. Okay. Cheers, cheers. Thank you. Bless. We do a little right, we're drinking. Okay. Cheers, cheers. Thank you. Bless. Let's do a little shots because the game is a little long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I got shit to do today.

Yep. Drink tips. Okay, this is a good one. Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder? Oh, well, that's a both. You guys are going to be drunk soon. Because, first of all,

there's nothing that you can't learn from either one of those catalogs and artists. What I love, Andre Harrell always knew that those were my two favorites because they sang about love. And that's my core, has always been to sing about love or to sing about trying to make love better.

Okay, take your shot. You have to love that shot. Yeah, thank you, Stevie and Marvin. Thanks a lot for both being amazing. And by the way, we got that uka, just in case you didn't know. That's the best... I'm good, I'm planning a nap after this. Yeah, yeah, the best on the planet. Motherfucker uka, just in case you know. That's the best. I'm good. I'm planning a nap after this.

Yeah, yeah. I'm the best on the planet. Motherfucker, uka. Make some noise for uka. Hey! They ain't over there smoking it down. God damn it. Yo, you're good.

It is good. It is good. And I never hurt nobody. All right, you ready? Go ahead. Joe, to see your Blackstreet. Oh, once again, Teddy again That's Andre Harrell family So Teddy, I have a record with Teddy

We did Sex in the Morning together With Snoop Dogg on it I love Teddy But Jodeci Jodeci taught me So much vocally I worshipped KC and JoJo As a listener

Just the songs, the production. That era, I was 13. I don't think anybody influenced me more as a teenager than Jodeci, vocally and musically. I sing Come and Talk to Me acapella in my show. You know what I mean? Great record. And the remix even better.

And you know what's so great about, and I know you experienced this too, growing up idolizing these artists. And then here I am, and him and I have been texting about doing a song together. He's like, yo, I need a song. What was the last thing he sent me? I need a song like, I'm forgetting the artist. Who's this texting you, Casey?

This shit is catching up to me now. Now I can't remember my favorite artist. No, Casey and I have been texting, yeah, because, you know, when Andre passed and just all of the disciples of Andre, you know what I mean? We all have stayed in touch and become friends. And, yeah, so Casey and I have been talking about doing a song together. I can't remember the artist right now that you got me drinking tequila. That'd be incredible. Okay, so you picked Jodeci. I definitely picked Jodeci on that one,

so I don't have to drink. But shout out to Teddy and Blackstreet. Shout out to Teddy. Biggie or Big Al? Definitely Biggie for me. Lil Wayne or Drake? I got to pick Weezy. Got to pick Weezy. I should take a shot for you.

For me, no one is going to pick Weezy. I got to pick Weezy. I mean, Drizzy, I'm literally, we're in the car every week for the last 15 years to Drizzy. But yeah, there's something about Wayne. There's something about Wayne, I feel, that just has never existed and will never exist.

It's just such an individual, lyrical, vocal perspective that he brings you know he's a cool dude too but your father was like the first king of canada and then drake is like the king of canada drake is the king of central page don't get it twisted god damn it that's a good one. Okay. Brian McKnight or Keith Sweat? Got to go with McKnight because, yeah, that was my... Keith, those records that Keith... I remember I was... That was what was so great about...

Remember I told you about Al Jarreau's... His name is Tabiso and Keriani, and he's become a very successful A&R and publisher himself. And he was my first Andre Harrell. When I was like 14, oh, here's another good story. So I'm 14 years old, and I'm hanging out with my,

the other guys in my singing group were 19 and 20 years old, right? They had a hookup at the Palladium in LA. So they decided to take me to the Palladium. It's a boys to men, Joe to C, and i believe abc like let's go back yep kind of night right i'm 14 years old um i'm literally walking around oh no no that's why they they had the hookup palladium i don't even know how i got there i was just with

my older hollywood like david faustino b Brian Austin Green, white boy friends, right? That's who it was. I was with the white boys. I was with the white boy crew. That was the white boys. I was with the white boy crew. I was with the white boy young TV crew, the 90210 crew.

And so Brian Austin Green and them, they loved hip hop, right? Yeah, they were all hip hop heads. They were all these hip hop heads. And I was the same way. Somehow we had become friends through my dad taking me to the Young Hollywood parties, whatever. So they took me. So they're all like 19, 20 years old.

I'm 14. And they end up somewhere else. I end up wandering through the party. And I find myself seeing these three black guys, well-dressed, kind of sitting there. And I don't even know how this happens. I just kind of walk up and I go, hey, what's your name? What are you guys doing? Do you guys sing?

And they said, yeah, we sing. I don't know how I had that feeling. And they said, yeah, we sing. I don't know how I had that feeling. And I said, yeah, I sing too. I sang for them right there in the Palladium, at the table, on the spot, made friends. We ended up starting a singing group together. And that ended up, and this guy, Tabiso, ended up teaching me about the culture of black music

and about A&R and about how to get a record deal. So he took me to Warner Brothers Records and the first two songs I sang to get a record deal. So he took me to Warner Brothers Records and the first two songs I sang to get a record deal were Jodeci's Gotta Love and Commissions Running Back to You. At a 14 year old white boy. Man, you chose some cuts too. How about the acts, man? You ain't never listened to the Beach Boys? Like come on. I'm about to ask man

you ain't never listened to the Beach Boys no I mean I think we all like maybe I wanted to I love black music and black culture so much naturally

Michael Jordan Eddie Murphy like that whole era as a white boy I remember listening to NWA with my headphones and my Walkman in the kitchen

and my mom doesn't know I'm listening to a bitch you know a bitch is a bitch or something like that and I'm like oh my god my mom doesn't know I'm listening to a bitch, you know, a bitch is a bitch, or something like that. And I'm like, oh my God, mom, if you knew what I'm listening to. I was so obsessed with the whole thing, you know? And so it always just felt like that was where I belonged, that culture's where I belonged, you know?

That's beautiful. And I know we're still on QuickTime with Slyme, but how come, like, you know come there's people who are obviously white that make black music, and sometimes they call them a culture vulture. What do you feel about that word, a culture vulture? What do you think? I think that if you're using something,

then you're just using it. If you love something, if it's in your soul, if it's in your blood, if you walk it daily and you treat every person that's a part of that movement and culture with the same respect and dignity they deserve, then you don't have to answer to nobody. I like that. I like that. That was fun. That was fun.

All right, go ahead, EFN, you want to go to the next one? Growing pains or different strokes? I think we kind of know. Gotta go GP. Gotta go GP. GP. Love you, Pop. He was there, Pop.

What was that, Pop? Trace songs or Jeremiah? Mm. I'm going to go Jeremiah. I like that record he did with 50. Oh, okay. They ain't calling us Dickie. And you got a song with Trey's songs too, right?

Do I? Yeah, you got a song with everybody. Yeah. Oh, you know, it's funny. I totally forgot I was on, like, this is what happens when you, you know, drink too much tequila. You, I remember, I totally forgot that I was on the Quincy Jones redo of, like, PYT, that I did this whole vocal and T-Pain's on it. Oh, shit.

Because I think what happens is you get into a place like where Blurred Lines in that year or those couple years, and you're just doing stuff. It was literally Blurred Lines. You're getting calls for everything. And, of course, if Quincy Jones calls and wants you to drop a And you're just doing it. You're getting calls for everything. And of course, if Quincy Jones calls and wants you to drop a verse, you just do it. Six years later, totally

forgot I'd ever done that record. That's the beauty of the business. Okay. Podcast or radio? You know, I haven't gotten totally into the podcast thing yet. My girl loves it. I think it's my impatience.

Do you know what I mean? I don't think it's easy for me to sit down and do long form. I don't like watching series. I like movies. I have a tough time. I like when I'm into a series and the new episode drops once a week. So there's a separation and anticipation and I only watch

for an hour or plus but me trying to sit there and watch like 10 episodes in a row oh no wait man no I gotta go write a song I'm a binge watcher

I gotta go do something I'm a binge watcher so you're picking radio well I mean yeah I'm an old I'm old school I'm picking radio okay

I am Rihanna or Beyonce oh both I'm old school. I'm taking radio. Okay. I am. Rihanna or Beyonce? Oh, both. There ain't no answer to that. Exactly. Forever. Missy or Eve?

Oh, well, I got to pick Missy. I did a record with Eve, I think, too. But I love uh I think Missy was just one of the uh most uh game-changing presence I mean and the her ability to rap and sing and write and murder for other uh other artists I mean yeah Missy's and similar entrance because she started writing yeah exactly and the Pharrell connection there's a lot of connections she's just I I mean, wow. When you go back on her catalog. Like Virginia. She's Timberland, but Virginia.

And the song she wrote for SWV. I mean, like, beast. Bobby Brown or Johnny Gill? I gotta go Bobby Brown. I love the... I love all that. And I sang my, my, my, like, repeatedly. I'm a huge Johnny Gill fan,

but my prerogative, the Bobby Brown, the Don't Be Cruel, the Humpin' on the Ground, the Tenderoni, like when I was a 14-year-old dropping out of school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know,

we did the Real Husbands of Hollywood together. Oh, I forgot. We family on that. We to talk about that, too. But I just think Bobby Brown, when Bobby Brown hit, and he was rapping and singing and dancing, like, that was... And the run going back to New Edition is going to be here on Friday. That was Chris Brown. Yeah, right, Friday?

That was... Yeah, Friday. I'm going to the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the car. Yeah, yeah. I want a fan. Oh, I ain't going to lie.

You know who... The reason why I know that is Fat Joe hit me and told me he's going to be here Friday. And I think he's coming just to go to the concert. He's a big fan of all that. Isn't it, they're on tour.

Yeah, they're on tour, yeah. Who else is there on tour? It's a couple people. And that's the wave of entertainment is that you go through your hot phase and then all of a sudden it's just hot. The show's hot and everyone wants to it, and it's coming to town.

Yeah, nostalgia comes back. Everything, sentimentalities and remembering. I mean, that's the beauty of music is how it connects to the journey of your life and reminds you of those eras and times, you know, and some of the best times of your life. Music is a time machine. It transports you. Absolutely.

Pharrell or Kanye? Got to pick Pharrell, of course. I'm with you on that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, uh, Pharrell, you know, out of everybody that I've ever been around, uh, as an artist, Mary J. Blige, recording Mary J. Blige vocals or recording Jay-Z vocals, that's hard to surpass. Right. But being in the studio and watching Pharrell create. Yes. Has got to be one of the most magical things you can be around. The speed, the authenticity,

the passion, and just the cleverness, and the lyricism, the melody. There isn't a part of it he can't do all on his own. There's so many of us, we need someone to help us with the bass, and we need someone to help us with the lyric, and we need someone to help us with the melodies, but that guy, there's nothing he can't do. Just a genius. When you use the word genius lightly, you don't use it lightly on Pharrell. He's a genius. So, Brandy or Monica?

Gotta pick Brandy. That's my girl. We did it. We had our first song together, our first cut. He's like a quick time champ. Well, some of them are easy if they're so connected.

You know what I mean? Because I'm not picking music over music. I'm picking connection. Absolutely. It doesn't matter. Whatever the criteria for you is. I'm picking connection. You tell me whatever the criteria for you is.

I'm not going to judge music. You got it? Mariah or Janet? Oh, Janet. Got to pick Janet. Now, Mariah vocally, when she came out with Visions of Love, I remember, and this is before my voice changed, I could hit all the octaves.

I could hit the fifth octave Mariah high notes. Like before puberty? Yeah, before puberty. I was 11 years old, right, when Mariah hit, was Visions of Love is 89. Yeah. So maybe I'm 12, so it's right before, so I'm still the last year I could hit that high note.

But I remember I learned every single riff of Mariah's, and I didn't even realize most of my, can I get this one, sir? Most of my can I get this one sorry most of my most of my studying of riffs and runs came from Take Six I listened to the Take Six albums and if you learn how to sing like Take Six you can pretty much

do anything so that's where I learned most of my riffs but Mariah when she came out I didn't even realize until i would listen back to my records like the earlier records i made how many mariah riffs i was running you know what i mean how much he influenced me vocally okay so justin bieber or justin timberlake oh that's a tough one Take a shot That is a tough one For all The people who are Close to the world

They want you to not pick I'm just telling you They don't want white On white crime out here Alright No white on white crime No white on white crime They don't want that

No white on white crime By the way I made that one up. That was what I was going to be. That was good. I was like, that's not on the list there, but let's go. That's good. I want to be respectful. I'm going through that.

I'm going through it. Yes. All right. Busta or Eminem? Oh, I got to pick Busta Busta. We got a few records together. And once again, remember when they had this thing that you could order videos back in the day? The box.

The box. I remember when my dad first got the first of the box bill. He came home and I had ordered $300 worth of videos. And my dad was like, no more of the box. I remember I watched Leaders of the New School at least 20 times. I thought that video, that first video of Bossa and Leaders of the New School was incredible. And then, of course, the scenario and the whole tribe connections.

And then you get to the different vocal stylings that he's done. You know what I mean? How he can change his voice up so much and lyrical styles. I really think that he's one of the most influential we've ever had. And Busta never gave you a, yeah, it hurts.

Yeah, it hurts. Yo, shout out to Busta Buss. Shout out to Buss. First one that called me. Busta was one of the first people that called me when I got divorced. Wow. When I got separated. When it was public news. He called me. I remember I was at the airport. that called me when I got divorced. Wow. When I got separated, but it was public news.

He called me. I remember I was at the airport. He called me and just let me know he was there for me. And if I needed anything or needed someone to talk to that he had been through these things and that he would be there for me. Shout out to Busta. He's such a great dude, too. He's iconic. Busta is my friend that I call for motivation.

Like, when it's time to motivate. Like, if I could call Busta and be like, yo, man, shit ain't right. He's going to be like, what the fuck you mean? Like, he'll give you that motivation that you need. I'll be like, ah, Buss, I just needed that. He's like, ah, I call you back. He'll be like, he ain't letting you have a bad day.

He ain't letting you have a bad day. He's a great friend. He reminds me of one of my favorite lines from The Godfather with Brando is, you can act like a man. You know what I mean? Like Buster's like, I'm there for you. I'll hold you.

And we can hug it out. But come on. He's going to smack you around in a positive way. Get it done. Let's get the work done. Now, this one, I'm going to be honest. I don't know which way this is going to go. Tupac or Jay-Z?

Oh, Jay for me. I mean, Tupac, of course, there's no way to deny anything that he gave us. But Jay has, because we've gotten longer and more from Jay also, we continue right now to be inspired by Jay. Every week, every month, the things he does, the way he handles himself. Different ways, right.

I mean, there's so much to be inspired by still to this moment as a husband, as a father, as a businessman, as an artist, you know, as a genius. So he's actually

one of my favorite people in the world. Wow. Yeah. And one of the few people that when my father passed that I've continued to just kind of once in a while check in with and ask for advice and when I need a grown man theory. Jay's a beautiful person. Digital or analog?

I'm liking digital now. I think that there's more to play with on the canvas with digital. I'm starting to get it. I was an analog head until recently, and now I'm starting to realize that the way that Travis Scott bends those notes and bends those basses and tweaks the tuning, I've always been a straight ahead, you sing in tune, you play in tune. I like

the imperfections, that's why I use live music mostly, and that's why I don't auto-tune myself because I like the imperfections of music. But I do think that the originality of what people are doing now with the Sonics is pretty impressive. I always liked analog because to me,

music sounded better when we had to be in the room together. Like right now, if we went to do a record together and I'm in Düsseldorf, Germany, and you could be in Austria or Australia and we can do and we'd be on the same level. But when you're in that room, like you said with Pharrell, when you're in that room seeing him make that magic, it makes you want to bring out the best of yourself. So that's the reason why I like the analog.

Well, you like the culture of analog. I like the culture of analog. But you're right, the culture of analog is really just the culture of doing it together in the same space

because it inspires. Collaboration. The collaboration inspires different phrasing, it inspires somebody. I know that some of those, like the Drake and 21 records, they have to be made in the same room

because the way they're bouncing off each other and the way they're complementing each other's verses and styles and they're changing up. We're not just doing 16 and 16 and 16, whatever it is. I think it really lends itself to a completely different...

And now, it used to be we'd have the same loop run for three minutes. All that shit is over. Everybody's changing beats in the middle of the song. And this is great. This is great. For music. And it makes it more fun for the DJs and everything. So I think we continue to love the

nostalgia of the old school but we have to appreciate and embrace that. You could easily put a plug in to it. Because then you love what Bruno does. Then you're like, hey, Bruno, you murdered the analog sound and the old school and great songwriting and strings

and all this. When somebody can do that, you're like, well, here, here. But not everybody can do what Bruno can do with the analog. Just so you know, I wanted to correct you because when you said the back and forth, you can do back and forth. Oh, it's Zoom now. Yes, yes, yes.

I've done it before. No, you're right. Yeah, I've done it before. That's a live stream. I've never done a, you know, I haven't done a live stream vocal collaboration session. You're right, but it does happen. I mean, you got to realize all the technology

is available. It's available. It's available. We could create an album right here. But see, just the way you said about movies,

the more you learn. So maybe I want to envision 21 and Drake in the studio. I don't want to start that rumor, but please. I don't want to.

You just said it's possible. I'm saying it's possible. It's possible. I'm not saying what they have done. I'm saying what I've I've done it I'm not saying What they have done I'm saying what I've done Before where I had to go Back and forth with Capone

And he also sent a skeleton Of like you know Him saying such and such And he knowing I'm going to say this And then he's going And we've been on the phone too A couple of times

Like yo go ahead Send me this This this And leave this part open Leave this part open So it's been done before. So I just want to say, but I didn't say it wasn't in this dude's bag. I did not say that, okay?

Please. Over here. Okay, so we ain't take no shot for that, right? No, we're good. Tory Lanez or The Weeknd? The Weeknd. Okay. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor,

going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here,

and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a Canada shit right there. Yeah, Canada Connect. And you know what I like? I like that he really shares his truth lyrically.

Do you know what I mean? A lot of R&B or pop singers, they try to just go for the hit a lot of the time. He finds a way to make hits by really truly telling his journey and his stories. Talk about the weekend. Yeah, and to me, that's really a lot. And he's got an amazing voice.

Thriller or Off the Wall? Ooh, that's a tough one. I don't want to say both. I'm going to go Thriller because the age that I was at, I had to go back to Off the Wall. It was my older friends that told me, you need to go back to Off the Wall. Thriller, I was seven years old. It was an event when Thriller

came out. It's no coincidence that Thriller came out when I was seven and at seven I decided I wanted to be a singer. There's no coincidence. That's right. Okay. You took a shot anyway? Yeah, it a singer. There's no coincidence. That's right. Okay. Oh yeah. Oh you took a shot anyway?

Yeah, it was there. I'm joining you. Oh shit. I'm joining you. Hold on, we took a shot? Alright. We took a shot for No Easy just now. Thriller, we took a shot for Thriller.

He still took a, he's all kind of gay. You know that? I have a driver, so. Cool, cool, yeah, yes. I'm not driving. Alright. All right. Thank you.

Dre or Puff? You know, Dre, obviously, as the producer, as one of the greatest producers in the history of music, one of the great... But I've spent so much time around Puff and his family because of Andre Harrell. Right, the Andre. Do you know what I mean?

And I've been a part of that culture and the party culture. What I love about what Puff does also is, and what Andre inspired and they did together, was celebrating all of these achievements together and continuing to lift each other up. Not, we're having a party and you can't come. No, we're having a party and everybody's coming. Right. And we're all going to be great, and we're all going to lift up, and we're all going party and you can't come. No, we're having a party and everybody's coming.

And we're all going to be great. And we're all going to lift up. And we're all going to take pictures together. And we're all going to support this movement that started, you know, with guys like Andre and Russell and Puff and Dr. Dre. Okay. Al Green or Teddy Pendergrass? I, I'm so in love with you Just gentle. Just so gentle.

So sweet and gentle. Just gentle. And I'm a Teddy P man. Cold as dough! You know what I mean? I'll turn the lights off. Don't get me wrong. Turn them off. We'll do that, too.

But there's something about that I just go for. OK. This one right here is a classic. MJ or Prince? That's the big question. From the Jay-Z. Nas, right? Yeah, that's the baby Jesus and the big question. It's in the Jay-Z. Nah, that's right. That's the baby Jesus and the adult Jesus.

That's a good way to put it. It's all Jesus. That's awesome. So which Jesus are you going with? I'm going to go with Jesus. No wrong answer in Jesus? No, the great thing is they both taught me different things in different ways. Prince, I learned my falsetto

or I improved my falsetto by practicing Prince because his control of his falsetto was extraordinary and unrivaled in some ways so when I can sing a door and hit every note in the song

I'm proud of myself and Michael Michael was the sing a door and hit every note in the song. You know what I mean? I'm proud of myself. And Michael, I mean, Michael was the pioneer of all things. It's like, you know, Prince was ill. He literally had his ass out and nobody was offended. He was showing his ass.

And he was. I like this song. It's okay. No one plays No Judgment. I love this song. It's okay. No one plays No Judgment. There's no judgment. I love this record. Did you ever link with Prince? I did.

I have some great Prince stories. Give us something. We'd love Prince stories. The whole room turned purple. I don't know if you've seen it. I'm at One Oak. One Oak, L.A.? One Oak, no, this is New York.

Okay, New York. Every time I would show up at a club and Prince was there, somebody would come over to me and say, Prince is here and he wants you to come say hi. And so I would come and say hi the first couple times, but then he would just sit there all quiet and wouldn't talk, wouldn't say nothing.

When you're sitting next to him? No, you just kind of say hi, and then he just wants you to sit there with him. Do you know what I mean? Just be. Just be with me and hang. And I'm like, I get that, but I want to go get wild over here. You want this witness stuff.

You know what I mean? It was after he got back to the religion. Most of it. I think that was the last 12 to 15 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Witness stuff. One night, we're at One Oak. I go to the booth I'm usually at with Richie.

A key word shout out to Richie, my boy. And Prince is there, and he's got a lovely lady with him and another friend. And I say hi, and we shake hands. And then I'm sitting there, and he's just doing his sit still kind of thing. He's not even moving his shoulders or dancing. I'm like, you can dance your ass off. You're not even grooving. So I tell Richie, I'm like, yo, get the mic and tell the DJ to play a kiss.

You know what I mean? So I'm sitting about as far away from him as we are now. And the record comes on and I just go, you don't have to be beautiful. And I sing note for note

the whole song. So as he's sitting there and he, but after a few lines, he like leans over and he says something to the lady like, who's that singing? And she goes, it's Robin. He's right there. And heans over, and he says something to the lady like, who's that singing?

And she goes, it's Robin. He's right there. And he looks at me, and he just goes. For the next two minutes. Holy shit, let's make some noise for Prince, man. That's right. You ain't got a Michael story? You got a Michael Jackson story?

That was Prince. I wrote a, Michael sang a song of mine. That seems to use it. Yeah, I wrote a song. My Michael story is it was the day after the Grammys. It was Madonna and Ricky Martin. No, Ricky Martin. Ricky Martin comes out on the Grammys and has this big blow up moment, right?

He does Cup of Life, blah, blah, blah. So the next day, Tommy Mottola is looking for a duet for Ricky Martin and Madonna. Madonna wants to do a duet with Ricky Martin, and Tommy needs the song. He calls Walter Afanasyev, who is the producer of the Titanic, Celine Dion song, and all of Mariah's first three albums. So Walter and I had started a song a few months earlier and so he calls me up and said I got a call from Tommy Mottola he's looking for a song from Adon and Ricky Martin and I think that song we started would be perfect for him. I'm in LA because it was the day after the Grammys can I come up to your studio and we finish that, right? So the day after the Grammys, Walter Afanassiev comes to my studio.

We finished the vocals on fall again. We send it to Tommy Mottola. Tommy says the next day, I'm, uh, this is so good. I'm sending it to Michael. You see,

he bypasses Madonna and Ricky Martin, sends it right to Michael. Michael loves it instantly, wants to cut it. A couple of days later, Tommy Mottola flies me to New York, puts me up at the Trump Hotel to write for Sony for the next 10 days

while Michael's next door. I'm not allowed to be in the room with Michael, but I'm next door writing for other artists. And that's when I wrote with Mark Anthony. Okay. So I'm writing with Mark Anthony while Michael's in the studio next door singing my song.

And I think I'm 21, you know, something like that. And so Michael ended up releasing it on his history album. And he kept all my vocals in the chorus. So it's him singing the verses and him ad-libbing. And it's all my voice on the chorus. So I have a duet. I have a duet. I have a duet. That's hell.

That's great. Not many people can say that. And I'll wrap up my Michael Jackson story with, I had released When I Get You Alone and he was a big fan of that song because I was doing Michael. And so I was supposed to open up for him at the O2 Arena on July 12th and 14th.

My whole family was going to fly out from Canada. My dad was coming. They were about to book the tickets and Michael passed away. Yeah, so. Stories. Stories. Otis Redding or Sam Cooke? I'm going to go Otis Redding or Sam Cooke? I'm going to go Otis

just because he had some kind of connection with his vocals that I can't explain. I think Otis might be, in the end, my very favorite singer. Because the pain turned into pleasure.

Any particular cuts that... Open the the door he's got a lot he yeah he just the way he sings is just there's something to own it oh no the uh the classic was the try a little tenderness if you if you there's some footage of him performing try a little tenderness in the uk as this big, powerful black man in the 60s for all these white kids. And it's very special to watch. And the way he sings, I mean, you feel something like the world has to change after a person like this sings like this in front of these people.

Right, right. The world has to change. Okay. Erykah Badu or Mary J. Blige? I got to go Mary J. Love Erykah, but Mary J. and I, through the Andre family and, you know, and because also she came first. And you know when you're younger, things can hit you a little harder. Do you know what I mean? The more you see and the more it all relates to who you first fell for.

Mary J. Blige and Jodeci and Guy, and that was the foundation. And that's when Andre Harrell came to my house. I was like, what? He's Uptown Records? I'm going to sing for him. Yeah, what he did with Uptown was incredible, and then eventually with Puff and Bad Boy,

what that all created was crazy. Yeah, you want to do the next one? D'Angelo or Bilal? D'Angelo. I used to play D'Angelo albums first when people would walk into my after parties. It would always start with D'Angelo. We need D'Angelo. We need him on Drink Shed.

D'Angelo, come on. That was the warm up. You start with D'Angelo. New Edition or Jackson 5? You know, for me, generationally, it would be New Edition. Obviously, or not obviously, but in my opinion, catalog-wise,

you know, the Jackson 5 catalog is so deep. But I grew up in the New Edition era, and when they split, I had all the albums. I had the Johnny Gill album, I had the Ralph Tresvitt album, I had the BBD album, I had the,D album, I had the... They were like the first Wu-Tang Clan back then.

Oh, yeah. Like when you said ABC, that's a part of that. And everything broke off, and the remixes, and the style, too, the outfits the BBD had. I had the backwards overalls with the writing, absolutely. That run that they've had? Absolutely. They still have it. No, that's what I'm saying.

Even until now, but incredible tlc or swv vocally uh swv um yeah i would have for me i would have because i'm a singer you know i'm a sang singer so uh when i think of weak in the knees like the people that i literally would sing and practice their vocals over and over again. TLC was more like, they're just the coolest, funnest, and you jam along and they make, they have the most incredible personalities, but the vocals of SWV really got to me.

Okay. Loyalty or respect? Man, that's a I got to go both. That's the one time. I got to go both. God, I got it for that one. No, because you can't really have one without the other. Yes, yes.

Make it look for that. I like that. You can't have one without the other. It's true. Because you got to think about it. You can't have one without the other. It's true. Because you got to think about it. You can't have one without the other. What's that? Love and marriage?

Yeah. Love and marriage. Loyalty and respect. I always thought I was the black Al Bundy anyway. Yeah. Yes, sir. But we play this game all the time. And the thing is, that's the one time that we're not trying to be tricky.

I think loyalty and respect is just hand in hand i think you i think you have to have both yeah in order to exist but uh yeah so let's get now that we got that out the way let's get to blurred lines oh god should we take a smoke break you know what smoke a cigarette in here man i just didn't want to do it you didn't want to do it on camera. I just didn't want to do it on camera. You don't want to do it on camera? All right, then cool, dude.

Now go on. I need a little sugar, yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll do it. I don't want to get on camera. All right, cool, cool, cool. I respect that. I don't want to.

I told Diego. Let's go straight into it. Go right into it. Yep. Good. Sure they got the body out of y'all. So. Yep. Good. Everybody rolling? Sure, everybody. So, I know we left off at Prairie Lions, but I want to get back to that because one of the things is the Malibu fires. Yeah.

How did that happen? happened? Well, it had started over on the other side of the hill in the valley, San Fernando Valley, and it was beelining straight for our neighborhood during the night. So wifey was checking, you know, the updates and everything. And then around 6.30 a.m. I got up to get ready to take my son to school. I had a nine-month-old daughter and wife. He was pregnant. So the fumes and the smoke that were coming were so bad that I was like, we got to get out of here. I don't want any of us breathing this stuff. So let's just get out of here. So we started packing up. And then around 8 AM, right when we were about to leave, it was a mandatory evacuation for the whole city. So we knew something was wrong. i i went and grabbed my uh

my music first i went got the computer that you know got that all the music and i got my guitars i got my dad's photo albums i loaded up everything i could in the car uh i got a few suits you know what i mean um and my son packed it back i was like like, pack up. He just put a pair of underwear and a book. I was like, dude, you better grab some shit. But yeah, so we got in the car, headed north to Santa Barbara, and then went around to her family, who's down in Huntington Beach, and spent the night with them.

And when we woke up the next morning, a neighbor sent us pictures of our rubble, the whole thing. Of your house? Yeah, just into rubble. the whole thing. Of your house? Yeah, just into rubble. The funny thing was I have a carport. The carport wasn't touched.

I could've taken all the furniture. The only, and the thing that really bugged was my piano that I wrote all of those songs on in 20 years burned. Yeah, that one hurts. But thanks, shout out to Yamaha for sending me a new one. You good? Yamaha, you can do it. Send me a new one, That new one is supposed to be on the way. That's what's crazy about California is you guys actually have earthquakes.

You guys have fires. Like, why is California this beautiful place that y'all still stay at? I think it's just 70 degrees every day. It's just like, I remember Jimmy Iovine told me that. He was like, I moved out to California. I worked in New York my whole life, then moved out to California. And I was like, I'm never going back. And I think some people have that.

Some people are diehard New Yorkers. And some people are like, man, the New York struggle is hard, too. And sometimes you're looking for a little. That's why a lot of New Yorkers New York struggle is hard, too. And sometimes you're looking for a little... That's why a lot of New Yorkers like to go to Florida, too. Right, yeah. But there's nothing... Nothing makes you stronger than New York. You know what I mean?

That's it. Make some noise for that. My New York friends, I wouldn't be... I wouldn't have been able to handle... When I need shoulders, I call my New York friends. You know what I mean? And they know how to give you that pep talk and that let's get back to it game. You know what I mean?

And sometimes I think us Californians, we're just wallowing in that sunshine. It's sunny again. But you learn a lot from New Yorkers. But Malibu is one of my favorite places on earth. It's a retirement spot. And I didn't realize that when I moved out there, it was because I had a son and this new lovely lady. Shout out to April Love. And I wanted to have a big family.

And so we had three kids. And it's beautiful and it's gorgeous. But also I really miss the – I used to live in the Hollywood Hills and I have Andre stop by every couple days and we smoke one and I'd pick up on some culture he'd bring some friends by get some new information and that really inspires the music you know and so so once you get out into your little bubble and it's just me having to create out of thin air all the time and I don't have all this information and flow. It's a little more challenging sometimes.

So I miss the energy and the flow. Might be moving to Miami. Let me ask you, because one thing that happened in Miami was people had hurricane insurance. Yeah. But not flood insurance. Which was like, I remember like me when I first moved out here and it was some type of storm

or whatever, right? I forget what it is. But... It was Sandy. It was Sandy? Yeah. I thought Sandy was New York. I thought that was...

No, that went all the way. Okay, well... And Katrina. Okay. Katrina flooded my studio. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of people had hurricane insurance. That's how people got over. Katrina flooded my studio. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of people had hurricane insurance. That's how people got over.

I mean, it wasn't getting over. They said, well, it wasn't the hurricane that caused damage to it. It was the actual flooding. Right. Which is a whole different. It's mandatory now, though, to get flood insurance. It's now mandatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So when your situation happened, did you have insurance for that? I got lucky. Yeah, I actually, about a month before, I was going through my bills, and I called my business manager, and I was like, why am I paying so much for insurance? And she was like, there's a lot of fires out there. Thank God, a month later. Wow. Thank God, I paid that bill. And four years later, in hindsight, I got a brand new home that I built for my kids.

I got my own little man cave outside with my fireplace and my barbecue. And I got everything lined up so the kids are right there and the players are right there and the tree house and all that. So, you know, I think that you get through your toughest times, but what was important to me, especially when that happened with my son was just to show him how we survive as a family. That's when you have to lead by example and keep the laughs coming, keep the joy coming and let them know that you're going to be okay, we're going to be okay, and tough times make us strong. And metaphorically, rebuilding your home

is just showing your kids, like, look, you just, it comes apart, you rebuild it. And we have each other, like, really, let's focus on gratitude. We're alive, we're healthy, we're together, and we have a home, we have a roof over our heads. That was like the chain of events for you, right? I think the house.

Oh, yeah, I had a run. I got divorced, sued, my father passed away, my manager passed away, my house burned down, and then Andre passed away. Jeez. I lost all three of my big brother, father figures in a couple years. Now, me as being a fellow entertainer, I always knew that I never got over my father's death. I never did.

I buried it with music. To tell you the truth, I'll be honest. I remember on the day my father died, Chris Lighty came to see me as my manager who passed away. I love you, Chris.

I love you, Chris. And he told me straight up, he was like, yo, it's either we can get off of this tour. I was on tour. I had the number one record as my father died.

Number one record, number one album in the country. Don't know what it means at this time. I'm 20, 22, 20, whatever. But I remember him saying to me, like, 20, whatever. But I remember him saying to me, like, yo,

either we get this money back or we can just stay. And in hindsight, that was the right decision. It was. You worked through the pain. It was the right decision. But later on in life,

I can still feel that I never got over it. Yeah. So, I mean, as a person who lost my father, too, obviously my father wasn't as famous as your father was. But he was your hero.

He was my hero. He was literally my hero. I hear you talk about your father. Yeah, he was my hero. So how is that coping with this? How do you do? Well, I had three kids in a row. That was him working for you in heaven.

He was great at work. No, I... Three more meetings. No, no, you know what? I had to fill the void. I had to fill the void. And I don't know if 10 kids could fill the void of my father. You know what I mean? But they definitely have given me a purpose, given me love, smiles,

and made me wake up every day with something to do that I love doing. That's dope, man. How much has being a father changed the day-to-day business of doing this? Oh, my gosh. Well, let's just say we don't drink tequila unless we're on drink camp. Good parenting 101. We're here. But no, I think that, you know, if you're going to get up at 630 and be present and I take my kids to school every morning, I'm up at 630. I like to be the first face they see. I like to give them their muffins and their pancakes.

And I like to take them their muffins and their pancakes, and I like to take them to school. And then once I know they're at school and they're loved and they're feeling good about themselves, then I can go to my job. You know what I mean? So I like to prioritize my day as my kids come first. They know that their dad loves them and got them to their thing on time. Well, sometimes on time. And then dad goes to get his exercise Or work on his music And then we finish the day as a family

That was the one thing about you That was super impressive off top Was we do this a lot And you were on time You were three minutes early And then I seen you had your shit together You had your people coming out They start filming you

I said oh they Y'all was very professional. I was out there like this. Out there doing things, watching. Oh, you broke the blinds? What? You broke them? That could have been me.

Maybe, I don't know. But I looked, and I was just so impressed because that's the thing about the business is a lot of us take shit for granted. Yeah, especially early on. And I'll tell you who taught me this. One of my idols, his name is Leo Combs. Yeah, Leo.

And I could never beat Leo Combs to a meeting. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez.

I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and I Heart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news

show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Banik-Smith.

Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network,

hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people

were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Never once could I ever be him. Like, I would try to come a half an hour early you get your podcasts. Never once could I ever be him. Like, I would try to come a half an hour early and he'll be looking I knew you was going to try this. And I'll come an hour early and he'll always like, we'll have a meeting at 4. That's so funny. And he'll be there at 1.30. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

He's like, I knew you was going to try to beat me. Like, that's what I'm saying. To me, that was always impressive, like, because you don't waste no one's time. Yeah. A person's time is so valuable. And the fact that I know, what I mean, like, fully knowing you,

I know that you are a great person because you can't, it's just certain things about a person that I have to assess in 15 seconds. Right. And you met every criteria in 15 seconds. Yeah. Right.

As I walk in my father's shoes and he loved people, he loved the business, he loved, you know, just doing this whole thing, man. And I used to get scared when I was, I used to hold onto my music too precious. And so I wouldn't show myself. I would hide myself. And that's why it took me time to become a performer because I just wanted the music to do all the talking. I didn't want anything else to matter except the music. And then that's what this Masked Singer show

has been so great for me because working with a guy like Dr. Ken and letting him make fun of me, letting everybody make fun of me, it's really become my new superpower, which is I can laugh at myself. Right. And I can appreciate the things that I'm good at and what I can do, and then I can laugh at what I'm not good at and what I can't do.

Right. You know what I mean? And that has really changed my life. Yeah, it allows you to enjoy life. Being able to laugh at myself. Oh, I mean, because I don't know if I would have done this 10 years ago. I would have been too scared of anything that I didn't want to be known for or say. But I've become comfortable in my skin by being the butt of the joke every once in a while.

And it's relieving. And it's relieving. Yeah, it is. Now, let's talk about sex therapy. Yes, sir. Is sex your therapy? I think that therapy comes in all forms. I think, you know, a little Jay watching the sun go down is therapy.

I think me swimming with my two-year-old son in the pool is therapy. I think it's all making sure that you balance enough of your life to get the joys of everybody in your life and all the experiences you can accumulate daily, weekly, and monthly. So for me, the therapy is really just a change of whatever I'm doing right now. The next happy thing is therapeutic. The next happy thing is making dinner for my kids is, is there. Do you know what I mean? I like to go to Costco's. Yeah. I like to go to... I put on a mask, little sunglasses. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

You put on a mask and... By the way, I love the mask. Because, you know, I want to be... Oh, you mean the COVID mask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You put that on now? Like, every now and then, yeah. I put it on.

I go, you know, when I want to go somewhere, to a hotel or something like that, like, I'll put it on. I go, you know, when I want to go somewhere, to a hotel or something like that, I'll put it on, put the glasses on. But it's like it didn't matter because I'd be walking through and somebody would be like, what's up, Norg?

I did everything for you not to recognize me. And that's the first thing. It doesn't matter. I think it's my eyebrows. My eyebrows is Robin Thicke. Boys. I can't hold it, boys. Okay, but all right.

I got so much notes. Your life is really dope. It's really dope. It's been interesting. It's been interesting. It's been interesting. Still is. So, okay.

Let's get to magic. Okay. Let's talk about magic for a second. Where was you at? Well, this is when I was going through, I had just had my first real success with Lost Without You and the Evolution album. And everything was happening very fast. I did Oprah a couple times, and it was really feeling like, and I remember Paula at the time, she would say,

we're not crazy, we're not crazy. People do like your music. You're sitting there thinking these songs are really good, and then finally it reaches the people and gets that kind of response. And you're like, okay, we're not crazy. Let's keep going. So, you know, Magic was really about believing. And also it was Paula.

Paula was becoming very successful. And her and I wrote that song together. She came up with a lot of that. Wait, what? Yeah, Magic. Yeah, a lot of that's Paula on that song. Oh, wow. Paula was great at being able to throw out lyrical ideas,

you know what I mean, when I would get stuck on something. I'd be like, I got this great track, but I just need to, I don't know, I don't like what I'm singing over it. And she would come up with a little something and give me a spark, and she was amazing at that. So she, her and I wrote magic together. I think some of it was based on, you remember the book The Secret? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, The Secret, yeah, I wrote Magic together. I think some of it was based on, you remember the book The Secret?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, everybody knows that. So the idea of The Secret is I got it, you got it, we got the magic, we can make the pain disappear, you know, and we can erase the past. Stuff like that. I can't remember. Damn tequila. We can make the future shine so bright

and we can make right now all right. So it was about the power of having magic in all of us that we all have a magic that we can change our lives,

change our futures and change our course. Power of intention. And by the way, your record with Trey Song was Bad Girl with Trey Song. Bad Girl.

Yeah. You got so much hits he forgot. Was that Boogie with the Hoodie? Hey, Boogie with the Hoodie. I remember being a Boogie record. I forgot Trey was on it, too. That's right.

By the way, you went to the bathroom, and I was just sitting there talking just now. I was like, yo, he forgot he had a hit record. Like, who forgets that you have a hit record? Like, who forgets that you have a hit record? That is a dope problem to have. Well, yeah.

That's a dope problem. Trey's song might be a little mad you don't even remember, but it's still a good problem to have. That's because it was more recent. Okay. Yeah, it was more recent.

And that was one, once again, Digitals. That was like where I wasn't with Boogie, so I don't have a studio experience. I don't have a, I wasn't there with Trey, you know what I mean?

So when I hear it, I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. So yeah, some of those things don't register as much when you have that visual. That experience, right. And you got a song called Brown Liquor. That's the new one, we got it. Yeah, we got it. That's the new one, we got it. You know what's so dope about you?

All the accolades we spoke about earlier Everything we spoke about What you went through To see your passion When you just played your new record To you still have that passion I lost my shit a long time ago Like

What I'm trying to tell you is I don't want to say we have similar lives But we have You know I believe you're 45 years old I'm 45 Just turned 46 Oh, okay, then. You're older. You're about one.

Yeah, yeah. So when we look at the years, and the thing is, I admire you still having passion. Oof. Like, that shit, because that's the reason why a lot of times, people will ask me for a verse.

Or they'll ask me to be a part of their music, and I'm kind of like done with that life. Yeah. But it's a good thing that I'm done with that life. What I mean by that is, if I'm not 100%, I can't do it. Right, right. So I wouldn't waste nobody's time, but for me to see you just now,

I was doing my peripheral vision shit. So I didn't want you to know I was just watching you. But I was watching. And when I seen your smile, come on, the fact that you still have passion for music is phenomenal. In fact, you used to have passion, period, because you had such a dope life.

You have so much things to, and you could still, I saw that smile. But you know what I love? I love the, there's nothing better than love and there's nothing harder than love. You know what I mean? And so I always have something to write about.

Always, because I'm in love. You know what I mean? And I love my kids and I miss my dad and I miss Andre and there's so much love in my heart for so many people in my life that all I need to do is have the space and the quiet to tap into that love and there's something to talk about, you know?

Now this song is more of a fun sex, but in the sense, the lyrics are still, I'm talking about someone in particular. Right, right, right. And I'm saying, I only drink this liquor. Right. And this record is on Empire records right I think no this one the last album was with Empire this is independent this is just with me hopefully yeah is an Empire independent

as well well I mean this is it would be going through Empire as an imprint not this particular song right now yeah I'm You're bringing it out yourself. Yeah, because I'm looking for, I'm actually, I'm formulating the new album and looking for the new distribution deal, but I want to have most of the album done, you know? I want to have the records lined up. This was the teaser single, yeah. Oh, the teaser single, so it's not even a...

I don't know if it's, you know, I don't know, radio hasn't quite picked it up, so I think it's going to be more of just an underground jam. But I got to ask this, because you said this is independent independent so you paid for the video or did you get yes did you get you gotta ask the question though no no i i know i'm going i got i got a little money but no most of this is self-financed okay self-financed yeah because we have another famous question that we always ask major or independent oh well i think for a young artist a major label deal is is can be very helpful um i think you think today in today's environment no i mean i

i'm i think that there's just so many different outlets but i do think that the support of a major label system i do think that the deals need to be reworked, obviously. I don't think there's fairness within the structure, but I do believe that I do miss the Jimmy Iovine roundhouse kick. That's what he misses. Jimmy Iovine just goes,

when Jimmy Iovine calls you at 7.30 in the morning and says, this is the best record you've ever made It's going to be number one all over the world And then it is You missed that I'm so sorry It seemed like I prepped his answer

No I'm a big Jimmy Iovine fan Shout out to Jimmy Iovine I say it all the time As long as you have a good deal Majors is not the problem As long as you have a good deal Meaning you negotiate what you want a good deal, meaning you negotiate what you want.

I don't even think you mean that, though, to be honest with you. Good deal. Because I think you're talking for it to be, to have a hit record. No, I don't think a major is good for a hit record. I think a major is helpful in the

overall international worldwide promotion of a brand new artist. If the label's behind you. That's always been our debate. If the label's behind you. For every artist that had a great experience at a label, there's 10 below them. Or 100. Or more. I'm just trying to.

But yeah, there's a ton that didn't have it because they didn't have the label backing them. But I'll tell you this. As an artist, there's no ton that didn't have it because they didn't have the label backing them. But I'll tell you this. As an artist, there's no worse feeling in the world. I know worse is not a word. I get it. It's a drink chance word. It's a drink chance word. There's no worse feeling than dropping a hit record,

you knowing it's a hit record, and then not becoming a hit record. Right. It hurts. And a major label gives you more of an opportunity for your dream to come to fruition. Because what I'm trying to tell you is, like, after a while, you got to remember,

you make a hit record, and then they say, well, it's not as good as the last shit. You fell off. So you got to go in and make another hit record. And as an artist, when you give it to an independent who's not familiar with the radio station in Atlanta, not familiar with there's one station in Las Vegas, you do the proper thing. You automatically add it.

Well, that's where you went wrong. You went wrong already. You said when you give it to an independent, you should be the independent. You shouldn't be giving it to another independent label. No, I didn't mean that. You're right. So, okay. When you hire, when you're independent, you have to hire a staff.

You still have to try to do everything a major label is to do it because you want that major label win. And boy, if you don't have that great market. There's nothing like the machine. There's nothing like the machine. Listen, Jimmy, I'll be wherever you're at. We can all agree to that. We love you, Jimmy. We love you, Leo. Mike Kaiser. Mark Pitts. Listen Jimmy, I mean wherever you're at. We can all agree to that. We love you Jimmy.

Leo Combs, wherever you're at. Kevin Lyles, Mike Kizer. Mark Pitts. Don't think that the work that y'all are doing at these major labels is going unnoticed because still, I'm being honest. This is what I recommend for every new artist. Your first three albums you go on a major and then after they spend that $20 million on you, then you can spend that $20 million on yourself.

I would say it backwards. In today's climate, you can go out there on social media, don't do much, and just make whatever music that resonates with your audience, get these followers and these likes or whatever you need to do, and the labels, they're lazy now. They're not

developing artists anymore. They're plucking you. You'll be able they're lazy now. They're not developing artists anymore. They're plucking you. You'll be able to control the deal. You can control it. You can have a better deal. Add a major. Use the machine. The way you've come up as an independent.

And then come out of that machine a lot more whole. But most of those records come from the streets. Absolutely. And only the streets have the urgency and that deserve the immediate attention of the listener. Do you know what I mean? Right. Because when there's something fresh on the street,

you know that they, like when 50 was coming or these records are coming, these artists are coming, you know, the labels know. And that's why I agree with you. I think if you already have heat, but if you need the producers and you need the songwriters and you need the label is going to connect you with those. If you're Gotti's camp, and you just got

records and video directors and guys coming straight from the streets in your neighborhood, then he's got a cash machine. That's a great example. 50 had the streets already. 50 didn't. Before it dropped. Independent.

Independent. But when he got with that label he got with Eminem that's what we've been saying it was the biggest I've always said that be independent

so you can take advantage of the machine I honestly think 50 could have still been one of the biggest artists without them but he became

one of the biggest superstars with them like he became like I love looking at Tony Yeo's Instagram and seeing these motherfuckers

in places I can't pronounce. And they just sitting there. I love that shit. I'm like, this is it. Because I saw it from the beginning. So again, I love this argument. It's an argument. And real quick,

just to give a quick analogy. He's super independent. The quick analogy I would give is you're a small business owner doing it on your own. And you're succeeding at a, you reached your ceiling of success, but you're succeeding. And now you can go to the bank and ask for that credit line that's like a million dollars. You can. That's what the labels are.

They're credit lines. They're banks. They're the worst banks they have. No, I mean with experts but you want to appreciate it and because as we've had the honor to work with the other people below the ceos there are uh great um video heads marketers marketers there are great there are people with connections i've worked under some people that know how to talk to people that the artist can't absolutely and the artist can't get on the phone and hold a conversation with the marketing team and with the blah, blah, blah team. And so they need those teams to go out into the world for them and do the talking for them.

So I think there's strength in numbers. Right. You know what I mean? And you can do as much, you want to do as much as you can individually. Even me, and now, I say I want to write the song I want to try to do Everything on my own Now if someone else

Comes in and has a better idea Or wants to make it better I'm all for it But I've got to Generate the magic From scratch And then The other things will come

You know what I mean You know what else The problem is too You get to a certain lifestyle That the label Has provided for you And you cannot D dump that down. That's what you really are nostalgic about.

That's your problem. You like that? I like that. I like that. You a fiend on that one, bro. I watched him pull up and I said, see, that's record label shit right there. That's record label shit right there.

No, he's like record label, record label. He didn't dump his shit down. What I'm saying is, if you was to sit here And just to say as he pulled up Was he major or independent You would know off top Listen he's rolling like a major

That's because I'm on a TV show That's a major That's a major I'm on a TV show That's where the. That's a major. That's a major. I'm on a TV show. That's where the car money's coming from. By the way, that's hilarious. I love that. Holy shit.

Okay. I got mad more. Truth. Okay. You wrote for Brandy. You wrote for Brian McKnight. You wrote for Christina Aguilera. You wrote for Color Me Bad.

Oh, man. Color Me Bad. What did you write for them? Their second album, I was 16, and I was working with Tricky Stewart. And their second album, Tricky was working with them, and I wrote a song called Sexual Capacity or something like that that ended up being their single off their second album. 98 Degrees. Yes.

I wrote a song with Brian McKnight, actually. off their second album. 98 Degrees. Yes. I wrote a song with Brian McKnight, actually. We wrote a song together that ended up on 98 Degrees. Mark Anthony. Jordan Knight. Jordan was a big, very important part of my musical development. I'll tell you why. When I signed to Interscope with John McClain and Brian McKnight and Jimmy Ivey and that team at 16,

they had just signed, John had just signed Jordan Knight as a solo artist coming off of the New Kids on the Block. So John was very... That's the name of New Kids on the Block. Right. So Jordan Knight was the lead singer of New Kids. So John's like, I think you should get in the studio with Robin. So Jordan and I meet in the studio, and I ended up writing and producing like seven of the ten songs on his debut album. Wow! And my first hit top ten record was Baby, you know I can give it to you,

which was produced with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Wow. And so the amazing thing about Jordan, what he did for me, because they thought I was a great songwriter, but I wasn't a producer. I wasn't a real producer yet. So Jordan took me with him. That's how I met Walter Afanassi. I got to work with Raphael Sadiq right after he worked with D'Angelo. I got to work with Teddy Riley. We got to go see, I mean, we literally went, I got to

go, oh, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. I got to go from the best producers camps in the world at the time and learn from all of them when I was 18 years old. How did they treat you? Because I could sing and write. They, you know, I always got that kind of a, oh. Did they test you? No, they were just like, this kid's got talent, you know. He wouldn't be here if he didn't, you know. So I was very lucky. But as far as they were concerned,

as long as you come up, you come up with stuff. So when you come up with a great chorus and Jimmy's sitting there doing the bass line live, Jimmy Jam, one of the most incredible musicians. I mean, Jimmy Jam. I learned so much from Jimmy. Those sessions with Jimmy were just life-changing for me as a producer.

Brian as a vocalist, being in the studio session with Brian, learning how to do harmonies and record them, and then being in the studio with Jimmy Jam, and this is all by 18 years old, so I was blessed. We're talking about going to college, you know what I mean? And you also wrote for Maya and Pink, too. I did. I got to work with Maya on her debut album, or I think it was maybe her second album. We did three songs together. Pink, that was, again, from the Tricky Stuart Sessions.

It was a song that we just wrote, and then Pink ended up cutting it because that was the LaFace. That was when L.A. Reid and Babyface were still together at LaFace, and they were feeding LaFace songs, and L.A. was putting them on his different artists. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day.

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You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action.

And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms,

even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and bestselling author and meat eater founder, Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West

and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So as I'm going through your discography, there's a straight up song. I thought it was like hitting, but it's a straight up song called Cocaine. Yes.

Straight. It's a good one too.'s a good it's a great okay so i'll sing this just for fun because the lyrics this is this is a true story you were like peter pie it's a true story beverly hills hotel 4 a.m. It's my birthday. I want to stay young. I want to have fun. I don't want to be the only one. No way.

Movie stars, models, and blondes, and cocaine. New York, LA is all the same. The angels look the other way. Because they can understand my pain. Cocaine. Oh, my God. Diego's about to go to cocaine. Diego's at one.

Don't mind him. All right. I've been doing that. I've been doing that at the shows. You look like you're racially profiled right now. We are not racially profiled. He's not like, okay. He used to, guys. He used to.

I feel like other than the Sugar Hill Gang, there was no one that ever said that. Actually, I think I remember when we were going to release it, the label said that there were some challenges. They wanted me to change the title. And then they realized that Eric Clapton had released a very famous song. It took them to notice that?

No, and then they let it go. They let it go. White lies. No, that wasn't Sugar Hill Gang. White lies. No, he's got like a, he says cocaine. I think it's called cocaine. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious.

Yeah, it's called cocaine. Melly Mel, Melly Mel. You can't patent the word cocaine, so you can just call it anything you like. You can't, right? I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, cocaine's not owned by the cartel. So you make this record, and the label comes to you

and says... I don't remember. I mean, label, you know, a manager calls. Somebody says we're having an issue with the song, obviously, I was coming... Your father was on... Yeah, my dad's a growing pains dad, and they're still trying to pitch, market me

as an R&B white soul singer slash pop star, or whatever they're trying to market me as. And so I just, I said, well, I don't really want to change the song title. I mean, it's kind of what the song's about. It's about cocaine, guys. And you know, I had never tried it, and it was really about the culture that I was seeing

as my presence in young Hollywood and how much I saw of it and how much it scared me. And so it's all about the fears of, I don't want to be the only one who's not doing it, and I don't want to be, you know, but it's really about the peer pressure of being around movie stars and models and all these things, and everybody's doing it, and you don't want to be the only one. You don't want to be, you know, but it's really about the peer pressure of being around movie stars and models and all these things and everybody's doing it and you don't want to be

the only one. You don't want to be the you don't want to be the prude. One of my first times in California I'm sitting up there and I didn't know how much of a commodity having cigarettes was

for this community. And the guy comes up. For the cocaine community? Guy comes up to me and says, I'll give you eight more for Newport. You should have said deal, and then you sold it to Diego. But by the way, by the way, guys,

I'm green as fuck. I'm like just coming to Hollywood. So I'm looking like, what? And he's like, guys, I'm green as fuck. I'm just coming to Hollywood. So I'm looking like, what? And he's like, yo, right now. And I'm like, holy shit. And then I didn't realize. And then I realized I was the only one in the party that wasn't on that. Okay.

I was like, oh, shit. But I felt like that was ill for you to say that. You know what I mean? I felt like be up front. I think that was genius. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, I mean, the thing is, like I said,

I always just try to say what I'm going through, and that's why my songs are very chronological. What I wrote and my album titles, it's all what I was going through very literally at the time. Love After War, Sex Therapy. Oh, I got that. All going through literally at the time. Love After War, Sex Therapy. Oh, I got that. All of that is in my notes.

Love After War, all of that is in my notes. The Evolution, they were all literal periods of my life, you know. So, alright, now let's get the blurred line. Okay. I can remember I can remember me hearing about this lawsuit

yes the record is phenomenal you know I started well I don't want to say I started with Pharrell but my second album

my biggest oh yeah hit what what what Super Thug was with Pharrell yeah I synced

how he works and and I seen... So when I listen to it, because we listen to it today. We listen to Marvin Gaye's record. Then we listen to your record. Then we listen to Blurred Lines. Then we listen to... Again, back to back, back to back. I can hear where Pharrell didn't sample.

You know what I mean? But the average person... I can hear where Pharrell didn't sample. You know what I mean? Yeah. But the average person, how we were speaking about earlier, how sometimes being smart is actually being dumb. Because you know too much, you know too much.

So when I kept doing it today, I kept listening back and forth to each record, I can see it. Did you think that you guys was doing wrong by showing love? No, I mean, you know, we, I mean,

there's been so much said about it that there's not, I don't know if there's anything new I can really say. It's new you can say here. It's new you. The fact is, is that my respect level I don't know if there's anything new I can really say. There's new you can say here. There's new you. It ain't mixed that up. The fact is that my respect level of Pharrell's abilities and the fact that I was lucky to be in the room and he chose to write a song.

The thing that's genius about him is he literally wouldn't have written that song for anybody else. Wow. I mean, I helped write it, of course, but the mastermind that he is, if any other artist is in that room, he won't write, he's not going to write that song. He looks at me, my energy, the way we are, the thing he thinks I'll sound good doing, blah, blah, blah.

It's all, his mind works on many different masterful levels at the same time. And he knows exactly what he's trying to conceptualize for this particular artist, different from Ed Sheeran, different from Timberlake, different from Norris. He knows this person, I'm going to do something completely different than I've done for anyone else. That's what we got.

It was, it's still, you put it on live, when we do the live shows, people go nuts as soon as it goes. And so all we really wanted to do when we do the live shows people go nuts as soon as it goes and so all we really wanted to do when we got into music was do what we love and make people feel like that right so i i no matter what has happened since or in hindsight this feeling it still gives people right in front of my face is worth everything because it's like um i say this story on Drink Champs a couple of times. When I met James Brown, first thing James Brown said, because they came up to him and they must have told him, like, his nephew or someone. He didn't know who the fuck I was. So he's like, that's Noriega.

He's a rapper. And James Brown looked up. He said, keep sampling my shit. I'm like, damn, nigga. Can I get an hour? Can I get a five? Can I get a selfie? But what it is is those pioneers, they understand that we want our music to live on forever.

And it's something that I had to deal with because I hate when people sample my music. I can't stand it. I'm sorry. I know that's being petty. Yeah, you are being petty on that. And it's something that I had to deal with because I hate when people sample my music. I can't stand it. I'm sorry. I know that's being petty. Yeah, you are being petty. Fuck that. I don't like it. You just bigged up.

What? You bigged him up for saying keep sampling my shit. Yeah, but I don't like it. But I'm saying it... We've had George Clinton here. Yes, yes. Let's clarify

so this doesn't become an issue afterwards. Let's clarify so this doesn't become an issue afterwards. Let's clarify that none of us would ever speak for Marvin Gaye or his intentions. We are pontificating because we're reflecting our own feelings. You say pontificating? Yeah. What the fuck does that mean? We're throwing out our ideas.

We're just, yeah, we're throwing out our ideas. We're throwing out our ideas because we're fantasizing. We're projecting. You and we're projecting you and I are projecting how we feel about this how we feel yes

and we are insinuating that Marvin might have felt the same way we do not we'll never know let's make sure

we leave this table without any confusion we're not telling any other artists how to feel about somebody being inspired by

or sampling their music, et cetera. To me, in my own world, if somebody was inspired similarly by my sound or music or vocals, I wouldn't have the same response personally. So I can only speak for myself. I want to make sure that we didn't have too much tequila and get into speaking. No, no, no. Yes, yes. Please. I don't want that to go wrong. Tequila and get into speaking. No, no, no. I mean, it's just because, you know,

and also, I want to say, like, there's certain records that they do over all of mine that I do like. Like, girls do my record over, that shit is dope. Like, with the guys, I'm like, what the fuck?

Maybe I'll take that part out. Yeah, maybe take the Marvin. Maybe speaking for Marvin. You can take that. Huh? Armani Wife is good. Armani Wife is hard.

We don't want to step on it. Oye Baby was hard. There's a couple of others. I don't want to. Well, I mean, there is the situation where the estates get to listen to it and approve it. If you're going through those channels you know because or the person themselves are alive none of that music that they sampling so the feeling for you is different yes so if you actually do on my record over trying to big me up you're actually

not you're actually doing like this well for what let's get... I love that. But guess what? Guess what? Guess what? Guess what? Something that I had to notice. Have you ever seen Pharrell post one of those remakes? Not once. Because you know what?

I think me and him don't get what we deserve. So when a person assembles our record and don't have to go through us, I can understand it. I can... If I said that's for you. Yes, like he said. So sometimes I do like when they sample it and sometimes I don't. Have you ever been sampled?

I have been sampled. My favorite version, or one of my favorites, was Drake on one of his early mixtapes did Teach You a Lesson, one of my songs. And he sampled Teach You a Lesson. And then that's the same record that A Boogie with the Hoodie sampled, is Teach You a Lesson. And did you feel like Nori? I'll tell you a funny story. Just because I love A Boogie with the Hoodie.

That's my man. But when he sent me the first version, and here I wrote this song as such a sweet, intimate. I love A Boogie with the Hoodie. That's my man. But when he sent me the first version, and here I wrote this song as such a sweet, intimate, and the first few lines were so hard. That's what I'm talking about. See, that's what I'm talking about. So I did. I kind of hit him up, and I was like, I hit my manager, too, and I was like, you know,

maybe he could just lighten up the beginning a little bit so we could sink into it, you know? And he was cool. He didn't mind just kind of adjusting it out of respect for the, okay. You know, it was only just the, it was like the entrance to the record. It was too blunt. And here I am, because I'm hearing my music, you know, and I'm like, and I'm expecting this feeling,

and he came in with something. And I was like, maybe we could just change the first couple lines. I listen. A couple of times, people sample sometimes. Sometimes it's a record about my father

and him passing away. Yeah, yeah. So when people come on there and they're joyful about this record, they're like, yo, what's up? I'm like,

that wasn't my intention. I cried this whole session laying this down. I had literally tears in there. Yeah. And you're taking this record, and you're making it over a happy way. So I don't like that sometimes. But hold on. I got to come on.

And Blurred Lines, we got through that, right? Yeah. Lost Without You, you already answered that question without me. Which one's without me? no, I'm talking about without me asking you I was like, I don't remember that song some of these questions I was asking you I have on my notes you already answered earlier

yeah, we got a good Lost Without You story and you have a passion for Latin music I hear I actually listen to Salsa and Bossa Nova when I exercise or when I'm relaxing. Maybe it's because I don't understand all the words, too, and the music is so good that it takes

me away and I don't focus on all the words as much. What Salsa artists do you like at Staten Island? I like the old school stuff. Cecilia Cruz. I just have the Apple playlists. It's just a great backdrop for me to. But I have Luis Bonfa is one of my favorites. He's one of the originators of Brazilian guitar.

Like he came before Joe Beam. So once I got into Joe Beam, then I got into Luis Bonfa and he has a playlist that's just incredible. And I love the, one of his social clubs. Yeah, yeah. And he says, Salias or Cuba, you know? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You want Cuba.

So this is something I've been wondering this whole time. You came in with your shirt all up. But your chest is red. But your face is not. I'm Irish. What the hell is going on? Is it red? Yeah, a little red. It's because I've been playing

tennis and shit. You're taking your shirt off playing tennis? Is that what's going on? No, I was in Cabo and that's what it was. I took wifey to Cabo last week and we got four days and I got burnt. She got burnt too, so it was a team burnt. Okay, team burnt. Are we making

noise for team burns? Team burns. Hey, you know, a family that burns together stays together. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So what, I mean, I'm going to be honest with you, man. To see you in person and to see, like, your story is amazing, man. Like, you know, the stuff that you've been through in life, the stuff that you've navigated through life, even when you say, like, your sad days to recovering,

it's an amazing life to me. Like, I'm sitting back saying, whoa, but is there something that you feel like you didn't do yet? Oh. You know, I would have liked my dad to have been around with the grandkids more. To see the grandkids. Yeah. I think when I think of myself, I've already had so much and I still feel like at this moment I have so much.

I'm so grateful. And I have this great theory that you can't simultaneously be grateful and feel anything negative at the same time. It's impossible. You can't do it. If you're grateful, you can't feel envy. You can't feel jealousy. You can't feel rage because you're grateful. The only thing you can be is gluttonous.

That's facts. So I try to make sure my, I put my gratitude forward most of my day. I get anxious in the mornings. I worry about all my kids and their future. I have trouble sleeping. I worry about the day, the week, the bills, you know, paying for private school for the next 15 years for four kids or whatever. All these things make it hard to wake up, you know? Or make it hard to sleep. But then I just, before I even get out of bed, thank you, thank you, I'm so grateful.

That they're healthy and you're making a living. I got them here, I'm getting out of bed, I'm still here. You know, because the things that I had, like my dad and Andre Harrell, that my go-to's are gone. And the managers. And my managers. So my new go-to's are my kids and my lady and the friends I got. And then it's just being grateful for those people that are still here

that I get them and I got them. Is there anybody you ever tried to work with that didn't want to work with you? I'm sure, but you know, I've always probably, I believe that that's why I've never asked for help. Maybe it comes from my dad not helping me right from the jump, like when I needed that grand. He taught you that lesson quick. And he was like, yeah, don't need everybody. He always told me if I was writing a good song, he said, now you need to learn how to produce.

And if I was producing, he said, now you should learn how to play guitar. If I was learning guitar, he said, now you should learn how to do harmony. Be resourceful. He was always trying to make sure that I had enough resources because he went through the same experience.

He had some ups and downs in his career. And when he had an L, took an L on one of his shows or whatever he almost got canceled you know from the whole system people turned their backs on him and this and that so he was like i'm never gonna let that happen again i'm gonna i'm gonna take every job i'm gonna make sure i have everything lined up so they can't kick me out or make me feel like i was kicked out you know i saw an interview um that et posted it, but it was an old interview with you and him, I think on the set of it.

Yeah, yeah. And he looked, he just seemed so proud of you. Yeah, he was, it's funny how he was always trying to get me to be better and do better, and that's what I remember, but then you hear how much he was telling all of his friends, all his friends tell me now, oh, your dad was always talking about you,

always bragging about you, always, you know. And that's how our parents are. They challenge us, but they're usually out there bragging about us the whole time also. So I'm not going to lie. It seems like because they say Jamaicans got the most jobs.

Who's they? My dad was definitely Jamaican. My dad was definitely part Jamaican. My dad was definitely Jamaican. Pop was definitely part Jamaican. So now let me ask you, you know me, I've been making music since 1997. I've been all over I've been places And it's always like

Certain fans that come up to me That look nothing like me Who are nothing like me And they'll come up to me And they'll be like What's up Nori? And they'll actually know my story What's one of the craziest stories a fan has ever came up

to you and just talked to you and you were like, you like me? Oh, you mean like somebody that I really admire? Like old people always fuck me up. No, he's saying a regular fan, right? Oh, yeah, a regular fan. What's the crazy interaction with a regular fan?

Oh, man. I wouldn't even know. Your life is too dope. No, it's just like... No, no, because it's been fun, the different age groups. Like, you know, first of all, 90% of my audience is black women. Black women. Like, you come to my show, there's a few scattered, peppered in...

You're like Gary Owens. You know what I mean? Let's go. Yeah. I don't get a... If I walk through the airport, let's say 20-30% white people recognize me, 90% black people would recognize me.

You know what I mean? That's how, for me, and even if I make eye contact, if I walk by someone, I'm like, we know each other. You know what I mean? And the beauty of it, and that's what I mean? So, and the beauty of it, and that's what I mean is that I'm not, that is my brother.

This is my culture. These are my fans. These are my godfather, my mentor, and my ex-wife. But you know what I mean? There's nothing in my life that hasn't been me being a part or wanting to be embraced and appreciate black culture.

And so when I walk it, I live it, and that's why I think it's possible for all of us to walk and live with that kind of harmony. Goddamn, I love that so much. I'll tell you the truth. That's one of my friends over there, my friend Diego, and I use his white privilege. I'm just being honest. If we go outside, we

jog and I'm like, Diego, go in the front. They ain't going to hit you in the car. They'll go around this motherfucker. We're outside at nighttime, they'll go around him. Listen, I said this story on Dream Chats before, but I remember this. I was probably still at the highlight of my rap career or whatever, right? Still rapping. We're in Amsterdam at a bar. Already sounds good. It actually gets a little wicked, though. So I walk out.

I'm the platinum artist. I'm the guy who got us all here. We here. I walk out. They stop me. They say I'm the guy who got us all here. We here. I walk out. They stop me. They say, you can't bring that beer outside, sir. I say, all right, cool, no problem. I go to smoke a cigarette. I smoke a cigarette at the time. Diego clearly picked up both of the beers and walked right out.

That's funny. And we did that six times. The whole night. And every single time the man stopped me and let him you cannot drink out here and I could have easily been like

listen listen I know you know you had the moments where you're like you know who the fuck I am like I could have easily been like you don't know who the fuck and I was just like

you know what I still win my beer is still outside Like, I could have easily been like, you don't know who the fuck. And I was just like, you know what? I still win. My beer is still outside. Yes. I'm going to have my wine. Yeah, you think you did something. Yeah, you think you did something. I still get my beer outside.

And I swear to God, so, yeah. Because, no, that's real. Like, me thinking about it to this day, it still actually hits me. It hits me because you know what? I grew up in Queens. And in Queens, you literally cannot be racist. Let me tell you why. Your neighbor's white.

Your other neighbor's Filipino. Your other neighbor's Haitian. Melton Pot. Your other neighbor is Russian. This is for Queens. Your other neighbor's Haitian. Melton Pot. Your other neighbor is Russian. Yeah. This is for Queens. We are the United Nations of everybody. Yeah.

If you're Chinese, I literally would go home at night from where I live. I would smell Chinese food, Russian food, Haitian food, Filipino food, of course, Puerto Rican food.

I'm half Puerto Rican. And then soul food, goddammit. Oh, Jamaican food. I'm half Puerto Rican. And then soul food, goddammit. Oh, Jamaican food. I was outside eating Jamaican food already. I was outside already eating Jamaican food. But literally, literally you can't be racist. So is that something that you had to ever navigate through? Like, you know, I'm hanging around with my white friend,

like saying that. But it's something that literally we do use sometimes. At certain points, I do use them. I do. I'll say, Diego, you go. I know this. Yeah. I know this.

They won't stop you. Is that something you have to go through for one of your friends? Clearly, you have black friends. Oh, yeah. I mean, I just, oh, I do remember a scenario, yeah, when I was about 14 and I was with my singing group buddies and they had a girl at a mall out in, you know, an hour out of town or something who had to hook up

on a discount of some clothes or something, right? So we were going to go raid the store and get the 50% discount and blah, blah, blah, right? So I'm in my basketball uniform from my prep school. It even says Montclair Prep on it. Wow. And we run in. We come out to the store.

We get in the car, and the two police cars show up. It's, you know, maybe just closing hours, right? Cops pull me. It's me and my three and my singing buddies, my singing group uh my three black friends and they pull me out of the car and asked me and pull me aside and asked me if uh i was safe and if they i had been kidnapped and if i mean what the fuck literally these are this is these they brought me here to get free clothes these are my boy they're teaching me how to say and i was so offended then that's when the white offended gets it that's when the karen kicks in get free clothes. These are my boys. They're teaching me how to sing. Wow.

And I was so offended. And then that's when the white offended gets it. That's when the Karen kicks in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How dare you? These are my friends. I'm calling my mother right now.

I'm calling my mother in Sherman Oaks, and I want you to get on the phone with her. That's when the white boy kicks in. We have an attorney. I know two attorneys

I'll see you at Costa Mesa yeah no I mean that shit is real and the thing is that you know we just it's out there man and that's why we love the big cities because at least more influence more information more cultural differences more more more, more.

And I have this theory that whatever a family does, if a patriarch or a matriarch, they just don't want this in their family, whatever it is. I just don't want that. I'm not going to have that in this house. I'm not going to have that. It always shows up. Of course.

It always shows up. Everything, whatever your grandfather was afraid, never wanted to happen in this family, oh, it's in the kitchen now. It's making, you make it right. You count on that. Yeah, it's making dinner. And I think that's the beauty of,

that's the work of God in some ways is, you know, we need to keep, if your mind is that closed and your family's not moving forward and you're not opening your heart and your mind and your spirit, then something's going to force you to open it or close it forever. But something's going to happen in your family or your life that's going to open you to force your heart. So let me ask you, I mean, force you to open your heart. This is probably the one like serious, serious question I'm going to ask. Like I said, the story of my friend.

Literally, I had the best idea. I was like, I'm not going to let this guy ruin my vacation or ruin the work I'm not doing. But at that same time, there's black children that are getting killed every single day by the hands of the police. And you have mixed children. And I remember one of the illest stories I ever heard was Steve Rifkin telling me

we was at Wally's. You know Wally's in Beverly Hills? And Steve Rifkin telling me literally, because he has kids, well, one of his kids looked white and then the two others looked black.

And how his kids would leave his house and the black kids would get pulled over. But they both, all three was his kids. I'm sorry, I'm paraphrasing how I'm saying the story, but what I'm saying is, his kids. I'm sorry, I'm paraphrasing how I'm saying the story. But what I'm saying is, is that something, I'm sorry, this is a serious question. But, I mean, it's something that I think about all the time.

Yeah. Is that something that you worry about? I don't. My kids are pretty fair. Okay. And because I grew up with all of these being pulled over experiences, that wasn't the only time that my friends were pulled over. We would be on our way to, my father had a place out in Santa Barbara,

and I'd be driving with my friends, and we'd just get pulled over and have to get searched out, you know what I mean? Now, luckily, none of them smoked. This was before I ever smoked weed, and they were singers. So they didn't smoke weed, but we'd get pulled over just for being black, for most of us being black. So then I started being,

man, we got pulled over for being black. What's wrong with this kid? Somebody slap him. Somebody slap this white boy. Please. What is wrong with this young man? But yeah, no, I grew up, because I was always around the culture

and most of my friends were black, that yeah, I experienced it all the time. And I would be the first. I remember fighting my extended family. My dad was very open-minded. My dad wrote jokes with Richard Pryor. You know, my dad managed Felipe. Wrote jokes with Richard Pryor?

Yeah, he worked one of the early, he would sit and he always bragged about it. He said, you know, I would just, he always bragged about it. He said, you know, I would just, uh, I could get him going and say, Hey, Mudbone, what did you do with that girl last night? Oh, let me, then Richard would go on his rants and, but they would have these writing sessions. And, um, so my dad always, uh, felt, felt like he was a white man in the midst of, you know, black culture in some ways. And I respected his open-mindedness, and my mom sang, you know, had her hit with a black man. So I literally come from an open-minded,

Hollywood hippie, you know, type family. So that gave me the right perspective to grow into that world. Man, that's a dope answer I ever heard. Nah, nah, because, like, you know, I got just, like, I don't know, I'm somewhat of a therapist, right? Fuck this. You're saying you're somewhat of a therapist? Or a comedian.

We're fighting together. Or a stand-up. Or a stand-up comedian. Clearly, I didn't make the right choice in Friends. Clearly. we're fighting together or stand up or stand up clearly I didn't make the right choice in friends clearly how did they just laugh

how did they just laugh no but what I'm saying is what I'm saying is I assess people I have to like and what I'm trying to say is man like

we went through your listography. I've never seen so much stories just keep popping up. And it's like, wow, how are you not insane? How are you not Britney Spears halfway? Your hair cut off and went insane one weekend. You know what? I got to say, good woman.

Good woman will do that for you. He is correct. I'm going home tonight myself, sir. Yes. Yes. Good woman, you know, she'll make you think the right way and make you clean up what you need to clean up and make you respect what needs to be respected.

And if you love that woman enough, you'll get it right. Okay, so, I mean, that's my next lyric. Can you guys send me that? Yes, right now. We got you. I'm going to turn that into falsetto. I'm going to turn that into something falsetto right there. We're listening to the album, and I want you, I want you.

Please don't cut that part out. No, no, no, we got you. No, no, no. That part. I want points when I get home. I want to ask you, and I met Paula before. I met her with Sha Kim. Yeah.

Oh, love Sha. Sha Kim. Sha, love Sha. Damn, I don't even know what, because I still go out there. Well, I could say it. Soho House in Malibu. Mm-hmm. Met her.

Probably one of the sweetest women I ever met. Everyone say one man garbage is the next man's trash or whatever. That's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking is, to me, from the outside looking in. Yeah. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day.

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A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business,

taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

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I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. One main percent look like the perfect woman did you mess that up or you know that's that's one of those things no no no because we already went over this it was okay there's a growth there's a thing that goes apart i mean

and what you you know what you see is not always what's going on at home you know what i mean and and um yeah and i think that there was so there was endless love and uh partnership and creativity but also two careers that were spending six to eight months away from each other wow baby going back and forth we're not she's working 12 hour days. I'm working 12 hour days. We're in different cities. We didn't see each other for six months of the year for a few years in a row, even more maybe. And that, that takes a toll, you know, it just naturally, it takes a toll and you, and I think it doesn't matter how much love and respect you have. The time, sometimes time apart, you know, breeds, uh, two different lives, two different lifestyles,

two different lives, two different thought processes. And I just think we had it all and we grew apart is the nicest way to put it. Man, I'm taking a shot for you. Not for that, though. Not for growing apart. No, I mean, I'm just saying. And honestly, in hindsight, it was the right thing.

There's no regret there, if that's what you're asking. Nobody's the best thing about it is, regardless if he was right, wrong, in between, whatever. Y'all didn't have a messy breakup to us on the outside looking in. Y'all looked at it like it was amicable. Well, you must have missed a few stories. He is your therapist now. I told you I'm your therapist,

my brother. I got you. I got you. I got you, my brother. I got you. I was trying to change the narrative. Honestly, we're way past all that. Her and I are excellent co-parents. She's an amazing mother.

And you know, there's luck in picking or being able to start a family with a woman of that quality. I know that my son has a great influence for the rest of his life. She has a great mother. She's a great mother. So there's only positive things have come out from that sense. God damn, man. God damn. He answered everything exactly how it's supposed to be.

In a good way. That's real. I really feel that way. That's real. Can I get a shot? I got a shot. And what matters is how your son comes out of it. And one thing that we can say, at the time, she didn't want to have any more kids, and

I wanted to have many. And that's an important factor in a relationship. You trying to be Nick Cannon out here? No, I want it not with different women, necessarily. Okay, okay. Oh, yeah, Nick Cannon out here. I don't know what's going on. This is my friend.

I cannot defend you at this point. You are out here busting in everything. I love Nick. You need to wrap it up. He's a blazer. He's my friend. He turned it into a TV show. So at least he sees the,

what I love about Nick is he's got this bulletproof sense about himself. Like he's just, he's one of the most hardworking, devoted, Yeah, he's solid. He's a solid dude.

And he's a great dude. One of the most helpful to his community, to everyone around him. Like he is just solid upon solid. So we all are laughing and enjoying this but you know

him and i have had a serious conversation like i i am devoted have devoted my life to my four kids you get you spread yourself in and when you do have a big heart like him and you are i got two and i'm 44 kids he's such a great guy and and you know it's it's hard to give all of that love that he has to everybody. You know, so we have spoken about that. But if anyone can do it, Nick Cannon can. Nick can do it. Let's take a shot that Nick can do it. Let's take a shot that Nick can do it.

If anybody can do it. Oh, yeah. If anybody can do it, you can, Nick. God damn it. God damn it. Nick Cannon, wherever you at. Super Nick. Wrap it up.

Super Nick, we love you. Dale que tu puede. Dale que tu puede. What are you doing here? What? Yo, mamá Juana. Man. I got it. I got, I'm on water. Man. I got, I got, I got, I got.

Okay, I'm going to need a smoke break. I ain't going to lie. Take a picture. Okay, yeah, we can wrap it up. Okay, we spoke about love at the war? No, I'm good. I think as long as. Oh, it's okay.

As long as he takes a smoke break. That's a fact. Yeah. I had this Yugoslavian billionaire fly me out to the south of Spain, to Marbella, right? To work on his daughter's album. She was like 14 years old. And that was the first time I ever smoked hash. Hash is fantastic.

Sounds like a lot was going on in that show. You know you still owe me. Listen, you still owe me. You got to smoke. No, no, no. You got to smoke. I know math. Yeah, yeah.

I know math, my bro. I know math, too. And I know what I agreed to. And you agreed. Don't change this shit now. I didn't change it. I know math. It's getting there,

but it's not quite there yet. All right. That was some good hash. We made a bet. I'll tell you about it later. But, what's your, I'm not there yet. That was some good hash. We made a bet. I'll tell you about it later. But what do you like more, making the record or performing the record? Oh, they both have their joys.

So we're taking a shot for this? Oh, sorry. Oh, no, no. I didn't realize we were doing it. Quick time of slime is over. No, I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. No, no, you don't. Okay, hold on. Jamie, can sloppiness. We're not doing it, but we're doing it. No, you know what? If people say, Bo, can we get another shot, please?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely need to explain why both. Yeah, please explain why. The creation of the record is a connection to God. It's something that is between me and God. The moment I'm at the piano, something's happening. The feeling comes through you. The words start to come through you. You know you're connected to something

that's larger than you in some way, because it's going to become larger than you. Somebody else will hear it. Someone else will feel it because you know it's that good. I don't feel that way about most songs. I do feel that way every once in a while. I'm writing a song and I know what I'm writing. And I know that it means that much to me. And if it means that much to me, it's going to mean that much to someone else. Someone else. Yeah, someone else.

And so when it's pure that way, that's your moment with God as you flow. The feeling of being on stage is the feeling of community, of state, of family, feeling of community of state of family of friendship of connection it's the it's the moment where you are connected to the rest of the world but the creation is goes straight up the performance goes straight out and comes back you know what i mean i gotta take That was the deepest shit ever. By the way, you're probably the only guest that you are drinking and getting deeper.

By the way, I'm trying to trick you, and it's not working. I spend a lot of time working on myself for better or worse, and that's what the evolution of robin thick and a lot any my last album was called on earth and in heaven because it was about the people it was about losing andre and my dad the people that are in heaven and the people that are still here so i'm constantly working on my place in this world my place in my family my place within myself and that self analyzation sometimes makes you get stuck you know I mean? You have to remind yourself to get out of it because maybe you're doing too much inner work that you're not present with the people that are right there in front of you. So as an artist, I can sometimes be walking around and creating and working,

but not being present enough. So I try to balance the two. Because as I'm hearing you talk, it just sounds like you work, work, work, work, work, work. What does a vacation feel like to you? Even when I'm on vacation, I got my headphones and my lyric pad. You know what I mean? Because that means, because it doesn't, it just doesn't come enough,

it doesn't come as much as it used to. I don't have as much time, and I don't have as much space for creativity thank you so i try to remind myself to be ready for that lightning bolt because that when that lightning bolt comes it usually i usually write the song in five to ten minutes and the all the other ones take hours and hours and hours but But those lightning bolts that are pure, and they might not even come for two years. It might take two years to have a lightning bolt, and then you get five in a row.

You know what I mean? So I think you just, as an artist, you can also excuse yourself in the presence of others by saying you're creating. So it becomes a... Has it become an excuse ever? It can at times. It can be a way to create some separation or space when I need it. Because I really do wake up every day trying to either give to the art, give to the family, just give more than you ask for. You know what

I mean? And then you end up receiving a lot because you're giving more than you're asking for. I know you got to leave. So let me ask you, they say great artists have to go through pain. Is that something you feel like you have to go through in order for you to make great music? You have to go through. Yeah, I think that. Are you a masochist? Because we talked about this earlier. I think that I don't mind swimming in it because I know that I'm

swimming in it for a purpose, for an end game. I'm swimming in it to make something from it that will make me feel better and will make others feel better. And because I've gotten to have that connection with the evolution, that album was so personal. Every lyric on that album was so personal every lyric on that album was me literally trying to find myself get through the fact that i had a failed album and uh and uh and everything that i that everyone told me was going to happen didn't happen we had this whole peak that was supposed to be ivy and andre harrell puffed at naomi campbell's at the party here comes the album boom you know what i mean and then so two years later i'm doing yoga i'm i'm going through all i'm doing therapy i'm trying to figure and all that evolution of robin thick album was based on

who am i if i'm not a star who am i if i'm not famous who can i love myself if i don't make it and that that's why that album ended up resonating with a lot of people, because who are you if you're not important? I related to that so much. Let me just tell you something. I had an album called Melvin Flint, The Hustlers. It's my first album. I feel like Pharrell had the most part. He did like seven records.

Every other album, we probably did one or two. Melvin Flint, The Hustlers came out. I did three and a half mics in the sauce. If you don't get four mics, you don't go gold. You don't go platinum. Or I've went into a state of depression.

It's like the third time I heard you say, I had an album that didn't work. And it was a great album, by the way. I had an album that didn't work, was my front of the hustler,

but guess what? It worked later. Do you feel like the people were wrong or do you feel like you were wrong? Well, no, I think that some things are too soon. Some things are before their time. And that's what the beauty of art is, that a great movie and one of your songs will end up on a thing,

and then it gets another life form. And it's only supposed to be appreciated by those that it reaches. And we can't reach everybody all the time. I'm sorry, I'm taking another shot. I'm sorry. You got me riled up. What the fuck is going on?

I'm just being honest. Because I heard him saying that and he said it three times or maybe more than three times. He was like, yo, I had an article. And the thing is, we still got to come outside. When you have something that, to the people's perception, they said it didn't come out, it didn't come.

We still got to come outside, and we still got to smile. Yeah. We still have to smile. It's not, being an entertainer, famous, go with it. You went too fast. Oh, you're doing it. I thought you did yours. Yeah, I got...

So I appreciate you being so honest and being so humble about it, saying that because we still got to be who we are. And these people thought that we had a failure moment. Right. Right?

So the fact that you kept saying that all night, one, you're not avoiding it. You're saying it straight up. And then two, did this, like, because my album, that people thought failed, eventually went platinum. I love this.

It eventually went platinum. So this moment, you're setting me up perfectly. We're talking about my first album. I believe my first album was my greatest artistic achievement. Wow. Did you believe it then, though?

And I did then, and we all did. Yeah, and I still do. And the fans and the friends and the peers, the fact that before Evolution, before Lost Without You, that Usher, Jay-Z, Pharrell, Naomi, Seal, Puff Dad, they were all saying, this is great. This music is great. So that was enough for me at the time.

Then because Jimmy spent so much money and it didn't hit, I was all scared, I had to go to the drawing board, I wrote all these, then I just had this piano and it was just me at the piano just drilling these songs one after the other, and then something magical happened. Let me ask you though, did those same peers that told you it was a great album, did they change when the sales didn't reflect that? No, no, because they didn't need to.

It's always the B-level people that are wishy-washy. Usually the people who are that great, they have so much confidence in themselves because they should that they can appreciate your greatness too. Jay-Z knows he's great, so he can hear what I go and go, that they can appreciate your greatness too. Jay-Z knows he's great. They didn't need to be affirmed by the sales. That song's great too. That song's great.

Because I'm pretty great. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. I've learned that the more people accomplish and really truly have genuine confidence in themselves, they're okay telling you that you're great also. We've told, I've told Nori plenty of times with Mo and Flint, and a lot of people have told

you, we all thought it was an amazing album. He always was like, this is my worst album, only because you created it in a... Because I believed the fans. No, no, no. No, that's not what happened. You created that album in a difficult time for your life. Yes, it was right after my father died. Father passed, because I was around when he... I was right after my father died. Father passed, because I was around when he...

I was right after my father died. Dad gave me all this money, and then told me, you still got to perform. Yeah. And I... You're just carrying all this. I wasn't there.

When I was in the studio, I wasn't there. I was thinking about, like, why the fuck did this happen? You know, I remember... I don't know. You're going a little crazy. No, please, man. We're asking that of the guests. We'll do a part two. Yeah. No, because I remember, I don't want to keep going crazy. No, no, please, man. We're asking that as a guest.

We'll do a part two. Because I remember my father, let me say that. But, yeah, me hearing you say that, I identify with you so much because, one, I could tell you still came outside. Well, you know what happened was the beauty of it, and that's what Andrea was teaching me at the time, was I just wanted to paint when I made the first album. I had so many ideas, so many desires, and I wanted to be different from anyone who had ever existed, period. I wanted to be the only me that ever happened.

And that's what that album was about. The second album was about I didn't connect somehow. How do I connect? How do I tell a more personal story that will connect with people personally? Because the first album was sonically, you know, in my opinion, sonically impressive production, but the lyrics on the second album is why the loss without you is

complicated, the angels to the sky, cocaine, got to be down. Lyric after lyric of I'm trying to connect with you. And I reached out and I opened my arms and I wanted everybody to hug me back. And that's what that album was. Well, let me just tell you something. This was a pleasure. I really had my expectations up here, but you just rung it through the roof,

around the corner. We're on a fire hydrant somewhere with no shoes on. What a compliment. I'm just being honest with you. And you guys are the best at this, so that's a very nice compliment but you did above and beyond

your story is so beautiful and you got to continue telling it because I'm just saying this shit is great well this is the most stories I've ever told in one place and we need part two still because I've seen this I've seen you guys and I see the way you talk

and I see how real it is, and I know your story. I'm a fan of yours. Thank you. And what you're doing now, and just being real, and being yourself on a daily, and letting people into your world and your heart as a big, tough man who's, you know, from the hip-hop game,

and you're sharing your heart and your world. And so I felt safe here, and I felt like, you know, this was a place where I could tell these stories. No, I ain't gonna lie. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it, man. Let me just be honest with you. You really opened up. You really you really didn't hold back on nothing. And that's really dope because you are a rock star. Oh, you're a superstar. Take that, honey. You're royalty.. Take that, honey. You're royalty. You take that, honey.

You're royalty. You're a rock star. You're royalty. I'm going to get points. I'm going to get points at home for this. And we respect the shit out of you. Let's take a picture. Fuck with you, baby.

Yeah, stop. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production in association with Interval Presents. Hosts and executive producers NORE and DJEFN. From Interval Presents, executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode. Spotify, Stitcher, or new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops.

They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.

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