Drink Champs - Episode 369 w/ Ginuwine

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode the Champs chop it up with the legendary, Genuine!Ginuwine shares his journey! Ginuwine shares stories of Aaliyah, Timbaland Missy Misdemeanor Elliott and more!Wine shares the origin story of how he got his stage name, “Lovers and Friends” festival, and his legendary music catalog! Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss!!Make some noise for Ginuwine!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 *Subscribe to Patreon NOW for exclusive content, discount codes, M&G’s + more:  🏆* https://www.patreon.com/drinkchamps *Listen and subscribe at https://www.drinkchamps.com  Follow Drink Champs: https://www.instagram.com/drinkchamps https://www.twitter.com/drinkchamps https://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps https://www.youtube.com/drinkchamps  DJ EFN https://www.crazyhood.com https://www.instagram.com/whoscrazy https://www.twitter.com/djefn https://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions  N.O.R.E. https://www.instagram.com/therealnoreaga https://www.twitter.com/noreagaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hear insightful, entertaining discussions on today's important health and wellness topics on the Health Discovered podcast from WebMD. Through in-depth conversations with experts, Health Discovered covers everything from tips for healthier living to the latest on therapy and mental health. My goal is to really de-stigmatize mental health treatment and looking at it from a whole health perspective. Physical health and mental health can be intertwined. Listen to WebMD Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

And it's Drake Chess motherfucking podcast. Make some noise. He's a legendary Queens rapper. Hey, hey, it's your boy N.O.R.E. He's a Miami hip hop pioneer. What up, it's DJ EFN. Together, they drink it up with some of the biggest players. You know what I mean?

In the most professional, unprofessional podcast. And your number one source for drunk facts. It's Drink Champs motherfucking podcast. Where every day is New Year's Eve. It's time for Drink Champs. Drink up, motherfuckers. What it could be, hopefully it's what it should be. This is your boy N-O-R-E.

What up, it's DJ E-F-N. And it's military man, Drink Champ what it should be. This is your boy N-O-R-E. What up, it's DJ E-F-N. And it's military drink champs. Happy hour. Make some noise! Now, when we started this show, we said we wanted to give people, you know, their flowers. We wanted to give people their icons, their legends. When we talk about this man,

this man has made countless music for over 20, 25? Is it 25? 27. 27 years. I mean, he got hits upon hits. He's an actor, a dancer, producer, writer. Keep it going. Reality star.

Theater. The man was in the theater. He's a thespian. He could do it all. Recently, he has been going viral for his dance moves and falling off the stage. I was at that show. I just missed him.

I was his friend. Yes. I just missed him. When I tell you, man, this is a legend upon legend. A real one. Oh yeah, yeah. Yes! You just missed him? I just missed him. Yes, he sure did. That's right, that's right. So, when I tell you, man, this is a legend upon legend, a real one. You know, I've been searching him so much, and then, you know, this is the first time

like I've heard about his depression because I've been seeing him for years and I've never seen him have a bad day. All right, appreciate that. This is a legend, an icon, hit maker. I'm sorry. And a historian, because we, hit maker, and a historian because we're going to get,

he's got history upon history. Yeah. So in case you don't know who we're talking about, we're talking about the one, only, motherfucking Junior One! Now,

what I like about recently, what I like about recently is a lot of people don't laugh at they self. Oh yeah. And I love the fact that you did not let the internet win No

Like when the internet Like tried to like Cause what was it It was the first It was the dance right Yeah yeah Yeah I mean you know what

When you been in this business As long as I have Right Hey That's all you got to talk about I'm glad I'm glad But no it was just

One of those things It happened I had to research The reason why People were laughing at the dance. And I realized it's definitely two different moves. Totally. It's the young, it's the young Junior Wilder move.

And then it's the OG's and C's. Don't you say OG's and C's? But I love that, like, so many people don't laugh at themselves. Is that something you developed? I had to develop it, man, because I got so many kids and they laugh. Okay. So they was like, Dad, don't get mad. This is funny.

You can make something up for this. You can make it funny. Okay, so hold on, hold on. When did you know you was viral? Who hit you at first? I was actually, I was in Vegas. I was doing a show with Criss Angel. And so I had a break and my phone was lighting

up. So I was like, what the hell is going on? I was like, did somebody, you know what I'm saying? You don't know what's going on. And when they showed me, I was like, I'm instantly like, I don't care about that. You know, when you season it,

very little things mess with you, right? I got to admit, that kind of mess with me a little bit. It is? Yes. It mess with me a little bit because I was like, dang, yo, I was playing. I'm chilling. I'm doing what I do.

I'm playing. And so all the viral stuff, all that stuff was truly like, no, for real. Like, all that stuff was just new to me. Like, I didn't know, like, like, once you, once that happens, like, there's a lot of other things you can do. I was like, yo! Because at first, I felt the way, and then my kids had to

call me dad. I was like, no, dad! You can do this! It's like a rebrand moment. Yeah! What social media did you see it at? Did you first see it at? They sent it to me. Um, Twitter? Twitter, yeah. I was going to say that. I was going to say that. I'm going to say it. Yes, yes.

I love Twitter. I go on Twitter just to get beat up. Really? I just go like whenever I'm like He loves the negativity. No, whenever I'm like

too positive in this world I'll just go on Twitter. I got to stay right here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to invite me. Invite me real quick and I'll be like alright, cool.

Now you humble. You humble. Go back to your stuff. I stay like that. So then let's bring it to the lovers and friends. Absolutely. me real quick and I'd be like alright cool now you humble you humble so I was curious yeah I stay like that so then let's bring it to the lovers and friends

absolutely lovers and friends um that's when I really I see you do the response you had the pink on yeah yeah so where exactly

happened at lovers and friends I've been searching I don't know if you addressed this yet so let me take a shot okay take a shot I'm here I'm here to get some champagne

take a shot thank you so Thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Salud. Salud. Salud. Stop touching my shit, bro. So yeah, so the lovers and friends thing, man, I was so happy to be a part of for the second year straight. Oh, you was there the first year? Yeah, I was there last year. So, you know, we doing our thing. We drinking. We having fun. We doing what we do, right?

And so, me, I've always been one of those artists that, you know, wanted to touch the people who go out there. And I still do that, right? So, this particular situation I jumped But we know You know the big speakers, right? Especially when you get into it Yeah And fried

Yeah So you know the handles right there? You know that dip up on that? I landed But you ain't there But I didn't You didn't So my foot went in there

And that was on you I almost took the guy there Was that a security guard Or was that the No that was the The interpreter Because the only thing I knew to do was grab

Grab something Hold on No don't do this Yeah he gave up though He gave up And I couldn't get mad at him Because everybody was like Man he should have caught that

I was like he didn't know I was grabbing him So the one thing That I did do, I stayed professional. Right. I kept that mic right here. You got back up. You were still singing. I kept the mic right here.

But you wasn't sore or nothing? Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You played it off. Yeah, I played it off. You know how hot them sneakers is? And it was hot as hell in Vegas that day. It was hot as hell.

Oh, my God. But yeah, I mean, it worked out. I finished it. I got back to my room. Had to soak in a... Did it go viral that day? No, it went viral the second day. The second day.

And I was like, oh, please don't get it. Please, please, please. And I knew it. My assistant and dancers and everybody was like, nah, G. You're going to go. So I was like, all right, whatever. And so the next day, you know, it went viral. And me learning from the first time, I was like, just go along with it.

Just have fun with it. So that's why I said, we fall down. So, you know, it was one of those things where you just got to play with it. I don't trip at all. I think, I mean, I won't say no names, you know, it was one of those things where you just got to play with it. You know what I mean? I don't trip at all. I think, I mean, I won't say no names, of course, but there's been many artists that fell. Yeah. And so I just, I'm admitted into that classroom now.

Imagine in the 90s we had social media. You know how many times we just was falling? Like, in the 90s, like you were. 90s, everything. On the front of the stage and boom, running your face. Remember, DJ's equipment would break down. We didn't have social media. So I was so glad that you embraced the joke.

Absolutely, absolutely. Let me bounce around. You're considered a sex symbol. Okay. I mean, that's what they consider you. Just a lot of babies were made of music. A lot of babies were made, and you made a lot of babies.

Yes, absolutely. How does it feel? Because me, unfortunately, I've made music for the streets. And KRS-One always said, watch what you say because you're attractive. And years later, I don't want to say I even wish I didn't make music for the streets, but I wish I softened up. I wish I did. Maybe sooner than you did.

Like global. Okay, okay. How is it making, you know, money off of, like, that image of, like? Well, for me, man, you know, we started i started in uh 90 so um i made it in 96 so um you know i knew nothing else but to make you know good music and come from the heart you know love music soul music and all that so you know once i started that um i didn't know how big it was gonna be you know what i mean like you always hope for the best I didn't know how big it was going to be. You know what I mean? Like, you always hope for the best.

You don't know what it's going to be. Right. So, you know, for me to have, you know, the CDs or the albums that I've had with Timbaland and Missy and all those greats. Crazy. Man, it's something that I'm constantly thanking God and just the people for. Because, you know, a lot of people don't understand. something that I'm constantly thanking God and just the people for because a lot of people don't understand. When you're not popping really here,

you can go overseas and feel like Michael Jackson. You know what I'm saying? For real. That's real. That's real. I tell that to my friends all the time. All the time, man. When you're struggling in America, they're going to pay you.

They're going to embrace you over there and you feel like it was it's it's it's it's you starting over you know what i mean so i've been man i've been blessed to be everywhere man i went to um nigeria and this was um back in maybe 99 or something like that. And man, they had like a, what you call them? Barcade or what you call it? When you have so many people following you, you have all the motorcycles and all that kind of,

what is it? Motorcade. Motorcade. Like a presidential motorcade. Yeah, man. And so I went over there and I was like, oh my God, this is crazy.

So we went straight from the airport to the hotel, but they told us don't leave the grounds. But yeah, you can go from here like when you just decline a little bit and you just want to reboot. You can go over there, man, and get so much love and get energy, and then it allows you to come back home and just, you know, start being real active again in what it

is that you do. So, it's a great thing, man. So, me still making money and doing what I do. I'm gone every weekend, mostly. Every weekend. Every weekend. You see you. Every weekend. Travel like a wrestler. Absolutely. Absolutely. You outside.

And I be wrestling. So it's all good, man. It's a blessing. So, yeah. I'm going to give you three names I want you to tell me. Gotcha. Infrared, Frosty, and Tornado.

Oh, my God. I dug deep. I dug deep. I dug deep. I dug deep. I felt like, I felt like I did. I felt like I did. Oh, my God. You know what? I got you. I dug deep. I dug deep. I felt that. I felt that deep. I felt that deep. Oh my God.

You know what? I got you. Okay, let me give you some history on that. What's the first one? The first one is Infrared, Frosty, and Tornado. All of them is who? Me. Yeah, yeah.

We got to hear this. Thanks a ton. Here we go. Oh, hey, he really went back. I like that. I got that research I was like This is a good one I said it to myself

So here's what it was When I got with Jodeci In 90 Devante Specifically Which is crazy The Jodeci connection Yeah

So We You know I got with them Like I said Devante specifically And he was coming up with a new, you know, crew called Swing Mob. Swing Mob, yeah. Swing Mob. I got that.

And then, and so, you know, he was going around, he was going around the world, going around the states, and he was looking for his first solo male artist, first male group, female group, female artist and all that. And I was pretty much picked along with Missy, Timbaland, Magoo, Boogeyman, Tweet, all of us. So the brother had an eye for talent, obviously, right? So once I moved up, you know, I had a job. It was like 89 and 90. I met them, you know, I had a job. It was like 89 and 90. I met them, I think, in 89.

And so 90, he was like, come on, man. It's time to rock now. We about to get something. First name was Infrared. Yeah. So, yeah.

So I'm getting to it. I got you. So he say, come up. So when I was coming up, he was like, so what's your singing? And I say,

Scrappy. Right? So he was like, why? So back in the days when I used coming up, he was like, so what's your singing? I say, Scrappy, right? So he was like, why? So back in the days when I used to break dance, my name was Scrappy GDA, Scrappy Greatest Dancer Alive, right? So he was a B-boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like, nah, that ain't going to work. That ain't going to work. So those are the names that we went through trying to find a name that actually, you know, represented me and who I am as a person.

So Frosty was, I don't know what made him come up with that. I don't know what it was. Because you called him. Okay, okay, okay. You called him. I don't know. But he, you know, he said that. And I was like, hmm.

And then so. So later was the one you liked. Yeah, a little bit. and I was like, mm. And then so. Tornado was the one you liked the most. Yeah, a little bit, because I was going to be with that one. So Infrared was the next one. And he was like, yo, whatever you set your mind to. We was trying to make sense of it. Right. I was like, mm.

So then the Tornado thing, I was open to that a little bit. I was open to that, because the whole specifics was open to that because the whole specifics behind that, there you go. See, you smile, look at this guy. I mean, I've been trying to get this interview for a long time. Yes. We like you, make up your mind.

Yes. I'm sorry, go ahead. Tornado. Tornado, it was more so about what I do to the stage. Okay. Back then. Right, right. What I did to the stage.

Right. Back then. But you still do it to the stage yeah so that's basically what it was and so uh uh that kind of didn't work out and so i said i've always wanted a name i always three syllables there you go stop it man you've been doing your research god damn i'm really good yeah so yeah it was always a three-syllable name and i always wanted to hit it so i said tag what best represents who i am as a person as a man and so my name is elgin so we just took jim and then i was like wow first of all first we started with And then I was like Wow First we started With genuine And I was like Nah man

We got this Something And then I don't know He came He was like What about Spelling it different

And saying genuine And I was like There it is Okay I didn't know it had Anything to do with Your first name Yes

I didn't know that Because I was like I want to use that I want to use that I got you Cause you You named after a basketball player Yeah Elgin Beller

Elgin Beller From the Lakers Yes yes yes My mom thought I was gonna Probably be a basketball player But at the end of the day She was right In the sense of me

Just being some sort of Entertainer So yeah It was a great thing And Devonta had a big part In the name though Absolutely Absolutely

Yeah yeah Cause we was like He had a lot of in the name, though. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, because we was like, he had a lot of names, man. Tornado, 50, all kinds of names. 50 before 50? 50, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Missy did that. But Missy, you know, she always joking.

Because back in the days, I used to wear fake, some real jewelry and some fake jewelry. So she said you were 50-50? 50. Oh, you're 50-50? Fake some real jewelry and some fake jewelry So she said you 50%? 50% Oh, you 50% So that landed for a while I was like, hell no Nah, nah, we can't do that But yeah, so yeah

So when 50% came out Did you ever tell 50% that story? Nah, nah, nah You gotta tell them that story It's not because it was so long ago That was 91 That was 91 Cause we was all on that show together Yeah, nah, nah. You got to tell them that story. It's not because it was so long ago. That was 91. Yeah. That was 91.

Because we was all on that show together. Yeah. 50 was on there too. Yeah, that's right. The show was on there. You should have told them that story. It's fire. That's true.

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Because you're coming from D.C. Yeah, yeah. So coming from D.C., how did you hook up with Devontae to get to Rochester, New York? Well, we were already hooked up. Okay. So we were already pretty much a family. Okay, so this was like a writing camp. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Really, really, really one of those things where, like, it should be a lot more of that. You know what I mean? As far as crew. Yeah. Because we started In the studio together And we started doing contests

Like who can write the fastest Missy and Timbaland I mean Missy always won Missy always won She always won Yeah So you know It was a great boot camp

For years For us to learn Because I was on tour with them I was on like three tours with them I just learned the business And all that stuff And they You know A lot of people thought I was younger than what I was on tour with them. I was on like three tours with them. I just learned the business and all that stuff. And they, you know, a lot of people thought I was younger than what I was. I was already, you know, a grown dude.

But, you know, I was, you know, I had a young look. But, yeah, up in Rochester, we were always having, you know, write-offs and all that kind of stuff. And it was a great way for us to stay on our toes, sharpen, you know, iron sharpens. Like artist boot camp. Yeah, pretty much that's what it was. And, you know, he got that. He got a lot of that stuff

from just wanting us to just be the best at that time. You know what I mean? You think he was trying to make a Jodeci? I don't know. No, I don't think he was trying to make a Jodeci? I don't know. No, I don't think he was trying to make a Jodeci. He was trying to do his thing because he kind of left Jodeci. I was like, what are you doing? So he was really on him trying to be Andre Harrell.

Right. Because that was one of his mentors. Right. I said Motown. Close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Because that was one of his mentors. Right. I said Motown. Close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Close. So he was trying to make his own Motown, his own Uptown Records and all that.

And so, you know, unfortunately it didn't work out. But I wouldn't change it for the world, bro. But it was a time where, like, everyone kind of left. Yeah, yeah. And you was the only one that stayed. I was the only one that stayed. A couple of people, I of people i believe one of them was earlier and one is missy earlier wasn't with us so it's missy then and missy was like she paid loyal to the default yeah she paid she paid for me to get get back but did you did you think she was right when she said you was loyal to a

default i didn't look at it like that i was looking at it like he brought me from D.C. to nothing. And a lot of the times, that's been my fault in life, just trusting people as long as I've trusted them. You know what I mean? But I always felt like, look, where am I going to go? People was always telling me, yo, come on back home. They ain't going to do nothing.

But I was like, I'm here. I got to make it. I got to do something. Even if it doesn't last as long as it has lasted, I needed to do something. You know what I mean? And so I stuck it through. But it got a little crazy for a while. And so I was just like, yeah. Missy was like, yo, you got to leave.

You know, if you need money to leave, I got you And all that And fortunately You know I was able to get back And do One of the fastest deals In the 90s And it was like Over the weekend With 550 Music Right

Sony Right So Why did you think Cause I know We all young at the time Yeah yeah yeah So why did you think

Missy and Timberland Left in the first place Was it about money Or was it about like receiving the work thing you gotta understand when we were up there all of us was really like just doing our own thing we would talk and all that but missy was getting it she started getting as a songwriter yeah yeah she started getting with mary j blige kim um puff she did uh raven simone that was like one of her first joints and she was with us She started getting with Mary J. Blige, Kim, Puff. She did Raven-Symoné. That was like one of her first joints. And she was with Scott.

702. And she did a lot of stuff. So needless to say, if you're around our world, people are going to talk to you. I remember hearing about Missy all the time. Yeah. And she just started Doing what she was supposed to do She did the right thing

She absolutely did the right thing And you know We always talk You know She just called me When I did fall off the stage Wow She said

Don't you let the white Tell you you ain't no star I said it's all good baby Because yeah I mean we spent A lot of time together, man. We spent like six years together. So the bond is there.

The bond is definitely there and never will be broken. Her, myself, Timberland, you know, we still got our lives to deal with and all that. But if something goes down, they're the first and I'm the first to call them. Right. You know what I mean? Because I related to a story that you told so bad. Mine's a little bit different. But Pharrell didn't come to my homeboy video, my nothing video.

Oh, okay. One of the biggest records. And he didn't come? He didn't come. Ooh. But he told me, which I believe now. I didn't believe then. Okay, okay.

He said, you didn't need me, Nori. Okay. But I was like, no. I paid for you. You need me, Nori. Okay. But I was like, no. I paid for you. You should show the fuck up. I want you to come. So when I see you say that you was mad at Tim for not showing up in the video, I have felt that in my

soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But do you think Timberland didn't show up because of, similar to the reason Pharrell, like Pharrell was, he really sincerely thought that I didn't need him. Okay, what you talking about? Which video? Which video?

Because I remember the first one. I think the one you said you paid $50,000. No, no, no, no, no, no. That was a misunderstanding. I think that was something that the label at that time, I was independent at that time with an independent label, not me just doing everything, but with an independent label. And I think she paid him. I really don't know about that. But I knew that nothing would break our bond.

We spent a lot of time together, bro. Like, I know that brother. I know that he. But you still had to, like, hurt to a certain extent. Yeah, because of what I was told. And, again, it was just so long. I don't remember all the logistics of it. But, of course, with me, we had the same management for a while.

And then once I broke away from that management, he distanced himself from me a little bit. That hurt me. That is what hurt me. As far as showing up for something later on, I don't think that was really an issue. I was a little more, I was a little jealous of some of the stuff that he was doing for Justin Timberlake.

Oh, yeah? I was like, that's my shit. Crop me a river to the bed. Until I learned that Justin was writing it. So I was like,

oh, okay, now that's a whole different level. So I was just like all right I I'll let that go I'll let that go but yeah that was you know me and me and Tim will forever be connected and hopefully we'll be able to do something special again man I always respect shout out to um Dre and Snoop and God man I love that when I see stuff like that shout out to Dre and Snoop and God. Man, I love that. When I see stuff like that, shout out to Puff. And even though sometimes things go on, none of my business.

But when he did that tour, everybody showed up. Kim and everybody. I was just like, yo. First thing I did, I was like, Tim, come on, man. Come on, let's do this, man. But, you know, we still got time. We still got time. Let me ask you something that Tank said on here.

Uh-oh. Here we go. Here we go. Go in there later. Later. My brother waiting for that. We go in there later. But something Tank said, he had sung a Sam Smith song, right?

I remember that. And he was like, when a white person sings about a certain thing, it could go to certain places. But the genre of black music, like if you majority turn on the radio, it's really a lot more negative than it is bad. I mean, it is good. Positive. Is that something that you agree with? As far as him saying that it's more

bad, what do you mean? Him saying that a white person can sing a ballad and it blows up. Like a love ballad. But if Tank or you sing a ballad And it blows up Like a love ballad But if Tank or you sing a ballad People judge it They don't let it go to a certain extent

He's absolutely right But he's not Sometimes a lot of people Got to understand It's a testament to us Not supporting one another too You know what I'm saying We got to

If somebody comes out with something And you know It's sort of like boxers now and all of that. Like, we just have to support one another. We're so caught up in what somebody is doing negative and bringing that to the forefront and bringing that to light. The good stuff is always overshadowed by bad stuff, and that's something that I hate.

And that's why when it took me so long to say, not because you was asking me or anything, but for me to be open to even do podcasts or me to be, because it's like the world, the world has changed so much. It's like, you don't want to go on something and say something and take it out of context.

And then you get fired and you lose all your, all your deals. You look, so I just, I'm so hands off. I'm, I'm, let me it out of context, and then you get fired, you lose all your deals. So I just, I'm so hands-off. Let me go do my shows. Let me do what I do, and I go back home, shut my mouth. I don't do all that because, you know, it's crazy right now. You know what I mean?

It's very crazy. I can tell that's how you feel. Yes, absolutely. I'm going to tell you how I know. I kept searching, searching Searching All your interviews Right And there was so many Interviews

Right That you wasn't even In the interview It was just people Talking about you Right And I could tell A lot of these rumors

You just didn't address Right Is that because You feel like you're Too big for it Or it's just because You don't want to be Involved with gossip

I feel like I'm Way too big for it To stay above it Yeah yeah yeah Because that's The thing about it is You know This nation like I'm way too big for it. And stay above it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's... The thing about it is, you know,

this nation and everything is built on innocent until proven guilty, right? Nowadays, you're guilty until proven innocent, right? So I don't never feel like I have to fight anybody for nothing.

You know what I mean? Like, I know who I am. I'm a stand-up guy. I'm true to my name. Always have been, always will be. So I don't I am I'm a stand up guy I'm true to my name Always have been Always will be Right So I don't feel like

I have to fight Fight for anything If somebody thinks something You've already lost anyway Because as soon as somebody Think whatever it is That they think about you That's their truth

Anyway Yeah they made up their mind They done already Made up their mind I'm not here to Change your mind nigga You know what I'm saying Like look

If that's what you feel about, keep that. Take that. Take that with you. Take that with you. No, I'm absolutely above that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Did you ever think, like, that it would be where it's at right now? Like, right now, like, right now, you don't need no talent. You don't, you don't,

you don't even need, you don't need, I'm'm going to stay away from that. Go ahead, man. I'm talking about this is in general. It's not just art. It's not just artists. A person can actually...

There's so many women that I go on Instagram and I can look at theirs and they have 2.5 million followers and I'm like, she ain't make the war report. How she got more followers

than me? It's because she's twerking. She's twerking. She ain't got no history. She ain't got no history. She ain't got no history. And it's no disrespect to her. Absolutely. No disrespect to her.

But I have never seen this level. And there's so many Instagram comedians. Yeah. That's why I always refer to that time with Mike Epps. Mike Epps had an Instagram comedian on with us. And Mike Epps just fried him. Really? He fried him.

It was Guido, who was my man. He was a good dude. But what I'm saying is, sometimes you put an artist next to, an artist next to a, you know, not a made up artist, but a seasoned artist. Right, that's it. Did you ever think that it would be to here? Huh?

Did you ever think it would be here, like society would be here? You know what, to tell the truth, yeah. You saw the fucking recovery. You saw the idiocracy yeah and ai only makes it worse now ai makes it horrible right but once the internet once the internet came out and once you start to see the progression I did hear you at my space party I mean, you could start to see it then And it was brilliant what they thought about

When it came to Just the word followers Yeah Just the word followers Damn, you're getting deep That gave you such a big platform, right? Right And so once

It took me Yo, it took me to 2015 or 16 to even get Instagram and Facebook and all that stuff. Yeah, because I'm old school, bro. I come up through with the Michael Jacksons and the Princes and the New Editions and the Bobbies and all that. We wasn't letting you know when we going to no damn store, man. All that kind of stuff.

We not doing that. So I never really subscribed to it until I understood it. Like, I was truly an old head, old school.

Like, nah, I ain't doing that. I think it actually took away the mystery and the art of an artist because it's so exploited, you know, that... Too much access. It actually took away The mystery And the art Of an artist Because you

It's so exploited You know that Too much access You got way too much access To Just think if Michael Like What?

Oh my god I can talk to Prince What? So It's one of those things man I just never caught on Until 2015 You know I love social media

But what I hate about Social media is We're all on that same level Once we open up that app Yeah It doesn't matter It doesn't matter We're all on the same

So there's someone In Nebraska In the basement Somewhere saying Norbert you ain't shit Oh I can talk to him And then the street people Are going to read through him

And he's like Wait a minute It didn't bother him Yeah So And wait But going back to the you just when you said followers i'm like the only thing that have followers is cults and religions the american west with dan flores is the latest show from the meat eater podcast network hosted by me writer and

historian dan flores and brought to you by velvet buck This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then. They'll say, when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West

and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future

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Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast.

Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug man. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill.

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Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. That's crazy. Boom. So that's why I'm saying the followers,

the followers thing was the key to like, oh man, and it's all fake. You know what I mean? Like I tell people all the time, you can have 20 million followers or whatever, put something out and see how many people get it or whatever. That's so cool.

That's what happened now. That's so cool. You saw what happened with hip-hop in terms of charting. They're saying this is the first time in 30 years that hip-hop hasn't had a number one record. That's what I'm saying. It's really a smokescreen. And so I did see it. I was like, oh my God.

I ain't going to lie. I didn't see it was going to be this stupid. I saw it was going to be this stupid, bro. I still haven't seen the movie Idiocracy. You ever seen that movie? No, I have not. You got to see the movie Idiocracy. They did this shit.

It foresaw a lot of this shit. They said that as we get into time, the more technology we use, we become stupid. Think about it. I don't really know anybody's phone number. Back then, I used to know 20 people's phone number. Like, it made me use my brain.

The smarter the smartphone got, the dumber I got. The dumber we got. Don't laugh at me. The dumber we all got. I bet you can't name five numbers in your phone right now. Absolutely can't. I can't. You can't. You probably got one. Your mama's. That's but we all got them. I bet you can't name five numbers in your phone right now. I absolutely can't. I can't. You can't.

You probably got one. Your mama's. That's it. I got five. That's it. That's it. That's it. I only know Eddie Giggs.

That's because he had the same number as his sister. We're truly cyborgs, man. We'll definitely, because we depend on this. This is us. Right. It just doesn't have a face.

This is us. Sorry to be off subject, but it's on subject. Another day, swear to God, a therapist friend of mine said to me, you know you got,

when you get on social media, it's about certain people you follow. So, he said that he had, he had clients that would wake up in the morning

and they would follow porn stars Okay And so when they're following porn stars They're thinking about sex Then you got clients That they're following kickboxers Or people that's holding pistols And they're thinking about

And you don't even realize That you're putting yourself into that Yeah, in that mode Like that shit was That shit was ill When he broke that down to me And I was like I can't lie

I immediately stopped following certain people I was just like, yo. You constantly see it on feed. You constantly see it on feed. It's all programming. That's what it's doing. It's programming you. It fucked me up. I woke up this morning which I didn't use

the internet the whole time I was in Italy and Paris. I tried not to use it the whole time. Then this morning I woke up And I got trapped Right into that shit I was like yo Holy shit But okay

Your phone is you Yes But genuine We want you to know Our show is about Giving our legends They flowers While they're here

You are a super legend We've been trying to get you Since this show started To give your flowers To your face To your face Thank Oh, shit. Hey. To your face. Thank you, kid.

Snoop Dogg is better than Grammy because he comes from his own people, God damn it. That's why I got that. Hey. Man. Yeah, sir. Did you think, you know,

because you have a luxurious career. Yes. Did you think you would have lasted for 27 years back then? No. Nah, I didn't think, I'm 25. I knew that the song that I started out with ultimately was a special song. To my pony. Pony, yes.

Because it was supposed to be for a securities intro. Yeah, boy, you bad. You better get it. You better get it you better get it you asked him for her two years i asked him for um because back in the days you remember i think i tell you but uh interludes was a big thing for jodeci and um uh even in w um uh uh defro yeah you know what i mean so we were doing a lot of interludes and that's what We were following We was called The Basement Right

So you know Snoop Snoop Suge And all of them We had a great Connection with Demonte Because actually

Suge started managing Jodeci for a while And so we kind of We kind of took A little bit from them And all that And so That was just something

That was You know Special for us to do Man And just to maintain and all that. And so, that was just something that was, you know, special for us to do, man. And just to maintain and do the interlude. So, once he,

he was doing some interlude and he was playing it, I was like, yo, that's dope, that's dope. And then he played Pony. Now,

just picture this, okay, without the words though, because I always felt like Pony, anything could have been put to Pony, and Pony would have been a hit, right? He played that song, and he was like, yeah, this is going to be for the bodyguards. And I'm looking at him like, the bodyguards?

And it just, I mean, I just heard it. I was like Dude Please give me that So let me ask you Please Give me that It took two years You mean

You meant that It was recorded already For two years Yeah y'all heard it It took two years To actually give you The actual record Nah y'all heard it in 96

We recorded it in 93 93, 94 Yeah 93, 94 Yeah Y'all y'all And that shit still Popping to this day

God damn it Let's make some noise for that. So what happened was when you asked me about did I know whether it would be, whether I would be here, I didn't know whether I would be here, but I knew that song was special, so

what I did when I did it and we finished it, rest in peace Static Major, because he wrote it, helped write the verses, but he wrote the song, so I did when I did it and we finished it, rest in peace, Static Major, because he wrote it. I helped write the verses, but he wrote the song. So I don't take no credit for that. So he wrote the hook? Yeah, he wrote the, yeah, the hook was already done when I came in there.

And I was like, I got to help you write these verses, bro. I got to have a piece of this. I got to have a piece of that. So, you know, once that happened man i said um once once it was finished it was mastered and all that and d was like that's your single right there that's your singing i was like yeah it is it is so once he told me that i reverted back to when i saw michael jackson on motown 25 right i said got to do a step to this that will make people remember this song

forever. And so that's what you see in the beginning. I did that in 93. That was old. As an artist, if we record a record and it don't drop, most of us give up on that record. You think that it wasn't it. What the fuck made you stay that record. Oh, yeah. You think that it wasn't it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What the fuck made you stay consistent? No, that was just one of the things where Devontae was looking for a deal and, you know, unfortunately, we had, he had like 16 artists,

16 acts. Right. And when I say acts, it could be five people in one group, one people, all that. So, and he was going around and they would always say they wanted me, Missy, And when I say acts It could be five people in one group One people All that So And he was going around

And they would always say They wanted me Missy And Timbaland Wow So he was going to places And they would tell him No we want him

We want her And we want Timbaland as a whatever And he was like If you don't take them all You can't have none Right It took me years

To even To know this Because him and his boy Fell out I won't say his name Because we had Some falling outs Or whatever

But it was his boy From home And he was just like I got to tell you bro Like you could have been Had a deal And all that And then I'm looking

At him like Is Devontae telling you that Nah nah nah That's his boy My bad then I'm looking at him like Is Devontae telling you that? Nah Nah nah That's his boy So I'm looking at him like You a snake Why would you tell me that now? Why would you tell me that?

No why would you tell me that period That's your boy You can't If it wasn't for him Again my loyalty If it wasn't for him You wouldn't even be up here Why are you telling me that though?

So I'm looking at him like You a rat dude You wrong But he was telling the truth He was telling the truth. And so he looked at it like, I guess, man, you're going to stop these people's talent. And they're going to look up and it's going to be gone. Like, we only have a small window.

I mean, if you're lucky, once you have that crew behind you, if you're lucky, you know, you can get on. But once that fades away, like, it's kind of, it's kind of a done deal for you. You know what I mean? So, luckily,

I just stayed with him. I just stayed with him and things worked out, man. Maybe he thought y'all would be stronger as a conglomerate going into the situation. I think he just had a vision. Yeah.

And sometimes when people have a vision, they don't detour from that vision. Right. And sometimes it's a hindrance, they don't detour from that vision. Sometimes it's a hindrance for the people that he has behind him and with him, which it was. And so that's why

a lot of people in the crew, we understood that and we had to say, I think we did our part in the loyalty category. Now we got to start looking out for ourselves.

So Missy was pretty much the first one that left. Yeah. out for ourselves. So Missy was pretty much the first one to left. That's great. Did you ask Missy to write on Pony at first? No. Never, never. Static was like, this is mine. To the dungeon, right? Because when I heard it, I knew

it was different, right? And I was like, what the hell? But I knew it was special. And so I asked Static, I said, you got to help me write this, man. I don like, what the hell? But I knew it was special. And so I asked Static, I said, man, you gotta help me write this, man. I don't even know what to do with this. But Static was really writing a whole bunch of stuff for the albums that were supposedly coming out and all that.

But I didn't even know where to start. So he was like, I got you, dog, I got you. So he went down in the basement. We had this place called the basement, that's what our crew was named. And so it was like two floors down. It was this place called Deja Lawn up in Rochester, New York. And so it was a big building, and we had studios everywhere,

and that's where we got down at. You know what I mean? So because that record rings off to this day. Still. Now, one thing that is shocking about it is most people, like, you know, were you doing shows before that record? Because you were doing shows. Because most people who write a hit record, who has a hit record, is catering to their audience. Like, so you were doing shows before that.

So you knew that this would work at a show. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was doing shows since I was like 10. Get out of here. Yeah, you know what I mean? So my lineage, my time in the music business goes way back. You know what I mean?

I've always been an entertainer, like getting in talent shows, break dancing, doing all that. But once I did that, oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, I got it. I got it. When did you work for KFC? I worked for KFC before I went up there.

Before you went to Rock King? I had three jobs, man. I used to work neighborhood reinvestment, KFC, and I used to work at a construction company. All at the same time? For my father. See you up-and-coming artists, go get yourself a job. Oh, yeah. Go get yourself a job.

Three jobs. This motherfucker had three jobs. Three jobs. He was paying for the dream. That motherfucker out here that's sleeping on your girl's couch. Yep. Talking about you struggling artists. You want to be struggling.

Go to TFC, nigga. This is real strength. Get your shit together. Make the noise fat. Fat Joe said the other day, he's like, if you don't start with honors, make sure you go

get a job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even when I made it with them, when I thought that I made it, in 90, I was working

at Champs and then me and my brother in New York, his name is... You ain't had Pony out with you. Nah, nah.

We're talking about from 90 to 96. You're going to quit that job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. had Pony out with you Nah We're talking about We're talking about from 90 to 96 You're about to quit that job Yeah Yeah After Pony It was a wrap You ain't working nowhere

It was a wrap It was a wrap Yeah but I still had that foundation And now I'm able Just like you were saying I'm able to tell A lot of the young guys

Up there now You know it's different now though You can just sit at home And do what you gotta do You can record an album On your phone Yeah it's different now, though. You can just sit at home and do what you got to do. You can record an album on your phone. Yeah, it's different now. But, yeah, I mean, so I'm able to tell that story and know that it came from the mud. I didn't get it given to me.

You know what I mean? The reason about the hard era in the 90s, which, like, these kids have it so good, I remember if I wanted my record to be played in London, I had to go to London. Oh, yeah. I had to go to... If I wanted it to be played in Virginia, I had to physically bring the record. Or you had to do in-stores.

You had to do in-stores. Remember those? In-stores. That's how I met you, right? Yeah. That's what's up. That's what's up. And you know, the in-stores,

not all of them was good, though. Crazy. Some of them were stinking. They don't use wear deodorant You know them days They want to give you a hug And you like Holy moly

I wish I wish COVID was out back I wish COVID was out back then Like COVID nigga Like I had to give so many hugs To stinking people God damn it

I mean Cause sometimes They waiting outside for You know what I mean Those days was crazy man But you had to do all that. You had to do the morning show. Yes.

You had to do the installs. You had to do dinners. You had to do the installs. You had to do the morning shows. The promo tour was free. You didn't get paid to do it. Oh, man. It hurt me.

Oh, that's when I... I'm still hurt. I'm still hurt by doing that. Oh, the promo tour. You know how many promo tours I did? I'm hurt right now. My third, because at the end of the day you have to do promo tours for um all your records and i think my third record is when i found out that um

a lot of people don't understand and know that we made bag like now that y'all saying that bag and all that was us bro wow let me let me give you the. Let me give you the history for this. Let me give you the history for this. Back in the day, you're going to relate. Back in the days, a lot of artists didn't care nothing about, you know, the money part of it. We just wanted girls. We just wanted drinks. And we wanted to go to a party, right? Yeah, I wanted money, though.

Well, you probably did. You probably did. A lot of us did. Yeah, I know. I'm playing around. And so my boys, Jerry Vines and Cliff Jones, back in D.C., you know, that basically came from, you remember

back in the days we had, what's them things called, when you're on the label and you go to the city and you meet the people. Street reps. Street reps, yeah. Yeah, it was street reps or whatever. Mixers. Street Reps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they would say, yeah, it was Street Reps or whatever. Mixer Meeting.

Nah, the Street Reps, but it was another name, though. But, yeah, because it was two different people. It was the people that ride you around in the van. That's what I'm talking about. It was the, okay, yeah. Them, them, them, them, them. But it was a name for it. But Street Reps or whatever, yeah.

So they used to trick us. I don't know about you, but they used to trick us and say, yo, man, we got this club, man. Come on, come on, come on, come on. So once I got to, once I got to. They tricked me too? Yeah, y'all, they tricked you a little bit. But they would give you no money.

Right, right. And so the whole time, a lot of those street reps or whatever they was called, they were getting money for it. And so once I got a little more seasoned, I was like, man, look, they're going to have to pay me. They was like, man, come on, man, you got to do this for the record, for the record. And so I actually caught somebody. I won't say the name. I actually caught somebody. And you know when you go to the bank they give you like a bag to put your money in

so I was like you got that damn bag give me that damn bag that's where that came from so I actually had a I still got a production company named Bag Entertainment if you go to my fourth CD

Snoop introduced my fourth CD, the senior, and he said bag entertainment presents. Genuine. Y'all owe Genuine some publicity. Hell yeah. Out there using the bag. Come on. Yo.

That came from us. That's old, bro. That's old. That's DC stuff. Okay, okay. So we got a game that we play on the show. Quick Time with Slyme. Quick Time with Slyme. Okay, okay. You want to explain them? a game that we play on the show. Quick time with Sly. Quick time with Sly. Okay.

You want to explain them? I've seen a couple of the games. I don't know this one. We're going to give you two choices. You pick one. Oh, here we go. Okay, let me hold it. If you say both or neither, we're drinking. All of us are drinking. We're giving you two choices. If you pick one of

the two, we move on to the next question. I'm going to drink anyway. But if you say both, like you can't make up your mind, then we all drink. All right, cool. We don't leave you out there. Yeah, we're taking a shot with you. Okay.

By the way, me and him don't make up these questions. No, no, these guys don't make up. There's two evil motherfuckers over there. It's all good. Our Dominicans and our Colombian producers. So blame these questions on them. Okay, cool.

By the way, this first one is classic. Is this Pepsi or Coke? Okay, can I get another one please? I just switched it. Oh you did? Okay, cool. Because it was a little- You know the difference between Pepsi and Coke?

Yes, Pepsi's sweeter and I- Well I can put you in blindfold. Oh, absolutely. And you'll be like- Do it. That's an 80s baby thing, man. No, no, no, I believe you, I believe you. Yeah, yeah.

All right, you ready for the first one? Yep. Uh-oh. Tank or Tyrese? You're wrong. You're wrong. I was going to take a shot. You got to take a shot.

Take a shot. Take a shot. Take a shot. Take a shot. I knew you was going to like that one. This one I don't know. Snoop Dogg or Jay-Z? Snoop.

Chris Brown or Usher? Both. I got to take a shot. Oh, shit. We need a shot. That was a good one, though. That was a good one. That was a good one. Oh, yeah, there it is. There it is.

Trey Songz or Jeremiah? Trey. Next one. Jodeci or 112? That's got to be. I was taking a shot, but before you can even get it out, Jodeci or 112 That's gotta be I was taking I was taking the shot Before you can even get it out

Jodeci Yeah Okay Yeah We need Jodeci on here Yeah man Yeah yeah yeah Okay you wanna get the next one

Podcast or radio Radio Shy or silk Oh Silk Silk Silk You can ask the next two Say hi Come on Nas or Jadakiss Shy or silk? Oh, silk. Silk. You can ask the next two. Say hard.

Nas or Jadakiss? Nas. Rihanna or Beyonce? Oh. Take a shot. Oh, yeah, I'm going to take a shot. You can't influence the witness. I might want to just take a shot, too, though. Cheers, cheers.

You don't want to go against either of those sisters. Oh, hold on. shot too, though. Cheers, cheers. You don't want to go against either of those sisters. Oh, hold on. Come on, Randy. Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse? Whitney Houston. Yeah. That was easy. Missy or Eve?

Missy. Yeah, that's going to be. Keith Sweater or Johnny Gill? Johnny Gill. No. Take a shot. I'm sorry. Take a shot.

Take a shot. I was going to say the cousin because he's from D.C., but Keith, that's my brother, so I got to take a shot with that. Boyz II Men or Jew Hill? Boyz II Men. En Vogue or Destiny's Child? En Vogue. H-Town or Jagged Edge?

Take a shot. Take a shot Take a shot The next one You're making us drink Yeah, yeah Take a shot Take a shot Pharrell Oh no, take the shot first

Okay That was for the last shot Pharrell or Kanye Kanye That was for the last shot. Pharrell or Kanye? Kanye. Fab or Pusha T? I'm going to drink. I'm going to drink.

You got yours Cheers This Mama Juana Is a little extra man Mariah Carey Or Janet Jackson Janet Busta or Eminem Busta

Wu-Tang or NWA? NWA. Wow. House party or Friday? Friday. Yeah, yeah. That way too. Go ahead.

Sauce or XXL? Let me drink. Really? I want to say XXL, but I like the sauce too. Sauce is the original. Tina Turner or Aretha Franklin? Drink, drink, drink. Drink, drink, drink.

Damn, man. Damn. Drink, drink, drink. Damn, man. Damn. That's hard, bro. That was a long-ass funeral. A recent funeral was long. Oh, really? Yeah. You see him?

Yeah. A left came back and it's still on. Got it? Yep. You lost? Yeah, because Y'all used Pharrell twice? Yeah, you already said Pharrell Okay

Oh, but you're skipping You're skipping though Okay, so You go back to it Yeah Okay, Monica or Brandy? Drink Drink, drink

Yeah I don't have it I don't have it Right there, right there No? Is that it? Yeah, that's Drink. Drink, drink. Yeah. I don't have it. I don't have it. Right there, right there. No? That's it? Yeah, that's... James, just bring them two at a time.

Yeah, that's... I do this, man. That's nothing. Okay. Where you at? Oh, okay. Oh, let me get the drink first. Yeah, let's not move too fast. We could all drink.

Yeah, this is just a little bit, man. Oh, man. It's giving just a little bit left. Oh, man. It's giving me heartburn today. Digital or analog? Analog. Me too. Tory Lanez or The Weeknd?

Tory. Thriller or Off the Wall? Thriller. Thriller or Off the Wall? Thriller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thriller or Off the Wall? You said Thriller. Thriller or Off the Wall? Thriller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thriller. Dre or Puff Daddy?

Dre. Dre. Dre. Dre. Timberland or Swiss Beach? Timberland. Timberland. I like that.

I like that. Marvin Gaye or Smokey Robinson? Marvin Gaye. Tell me about that Like that Tell me about that Marvin Gate Or Smokey Robinson Marvin Gate Al Green Or Teddy Pendergraft Al Green Michael Jackson Michael Jackson

Or Prince Michael Jackson Okay I'm sorry We heard you got Michael Jackson and Prince. We need to hear those stories. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. We are.

That's why I'm trying to hear this. I'm trying to get this. And I got a nice question for you. Oh, yeah. Bobby Brown or I'll Be Sure? Bobby Brown. Oldest Wedding or Sam Cooke? Sam Cooke.

It's been born By a river Girl, Badu Or Alicia Keys I drink I drink I drink Stevie Wonder

Or Luthor Vandross Me and Stevie Wonder You thinkuthor Vandross Me and Stevie Wonder You think Stevie could see Yeah I think so It's a big debate on here Yeah yeah yeah I'm sorry Stevie

I think he can I've been hearing too many stories We're going to have to see for ourselves We had the Osley brothers Say that They saw him crossing the street I said wait a minute. I bet you he's having a lot of fun with it because he seems like he's got a good sense of humor.

I believe so. Listen, I probably crossed the street. I don't know. I'm 20-20 vision. Well, you know, you could be legally blind and you still see something. And you still can see the shapes and everything. And then Shaq said that he saw him press the button in the elevator. It was just him and him on the table.

This is true. The Isley brothers said he crossed the street. The Isley brothers said he crossed the street. He crossed the street. Oh, that's not a joke. This is not a joke. No, and Shaq said that he once lived in the same building and Stevie was already in the elevator.

He was like, what's up, Shaq? So I don't know. I'm listening to Stevie I'm with you Hey look The senses Rise up Yeah they rise up

Yeah for sure This is rise up Alright New Edition Or Jackson 5 Oh I was about to You was about to go

New Edition Jackson 5 Okay Yeah TLC or SWV Drake Salud Thank you

We both do the last one Loyalty or respect Loyalty You want to explain why Loyalty I don't knowalty. You want to explain why? Loyalty, I don't know, man. It's like the respect thing. People can respect you for different reasons.

They scare you and all that. But I think the loyalty thing, that comes from within. It just comes from time and just you spending time with somebody and just not wanting to see that person hurt. And just you're going to ride or die for that person. So loyalty for me, it's everything. You know what I mean? But yeah, respect is good too. I think if you're loyal, respect comes with it.

Respect comes with it, yeah. Let's take a drink to that. Yeah, let's take, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a perfect answer. I like that. Now, I have to ask you. At one point Nas was like the prince of the hood

He couldn't do no wrong Oh prince Prince or the king Let's give him the king Show him that proper respect Then it was one record They was like he sold out Prince?

No he talking about Nas No Nas Nas I'm sorry I'm going to go with the prince He got confused when you said prince Oh that's what you did They was like He sold out Prince? No he talking about Nas No Nas Nas Sorry I'm going to go on to Prince He got confused When you said Prince Oh that's what you

Talked about Prince No I meant Prince of the Hood Okay He was the king So this record comes out And this is the time This is the time Puff Daddy

Is killing him Yeah So this is my man This is my man The shiny suit But I remember At that time It was like

Man My man sold out Oh Don't say that Not me I ain't saying that I'm saying the people Were saying that

Right right right Because of Where he came from And what happened And one of those records was You owe me You owe me Back when he

Told me his decks It aged well It aged well But But in the beginning I remember Seeing so much slack That he was receiving

Yeah Was that something That you and Timbaland Received as well Or We didn't receive Nothing I mean

It was a smash But I'm pretty sure Like yeah Because Because of How he grew up And where he was And rap

And all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, it worked out for us. And I think it was more of a commercial success for him and just put him on a different plateau. I always felt like if you want to change anything and anyone, like, get on that plateau and then allow them to see your reality. You know what I mean? And then you can change. You can change them. So all the selling out stuff Nah man

Like the dude The dude That's Nas man You can't ever Ever say that dude Yeah of course Of course Yeah yeah

But I just always wondered It was a commercial success for us Yes And all of us So you know Just like And it aged well Yes

But back then I can't lie Even me What are you doing What are you doing Because he was my friend. But it was only the fellas, the ladies. Yes, the ladies didn't give a fuck. And they had genuine on it, so they're like, hey, the ladies gave him a pass.

But the dudes was like, fuck this, what's going on? Why you over there doing, why you got on another shirt? Why you selling that? Because that was during an era where, you know, Puff was out and he was doing his thing. But he was smart about it. He was still like, you better not step to me.

You know what the deal is. Now it seems like a genius move. What I'm saying is back then. Yes, yes. But guess what? That's what make those icons, those icons. They can foresee the future. You got to look at Master P, Dane,

Puff, all those guys. That's why they are who they are because they already saw the business part of it. We looking at all this and that. Nah, they're looking 20 years ahead. 15, 20 years ahead.

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I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man.

We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote.

Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. is real dudes on the streets. Absolutely. Like, one thing I learned about being an R&B, one thing I learned about being an R&B, like, okay, obviously, I came out with rappers, and the one thing I've seen,

I remember having a show with you. I'm sure you don't remember. Okay. But you had panties just flying on stage. Yes. And I was just like, how the fuck do I compete with that?

Like, what the fuck You're getting blunts thrown on stage I got a DJ There's people throwing weed at me This motherfucker had bras And panties And I was like I can't get on after that

Like What the But it was like I remember you and LL Was like very hard That's my man Like very hard Like LL

He would change Cause remember We thinking one mic You know a DJ And I remember LL Having a show And him giving out flowers And I remember having a show

With you And you receiving Panties And I was just like This was I did not start Researching you As we get closer

To you saying You want to do this interview And I'm researching you And I realized That that was at Every one of your shows Yeah yeah I thought it was just

At the show that I did With you That was at You thought that was The panty show Yeah And then That was a multiple

Yes I did And then I realized So was that like Something you You strategically said that No that was Multiple encounters man I never really Strategically planned Anything like that But I always remember You know my mom Was that like something you strategically said that? No, it was multiple encounters, man.

I never really strategically planned anything like that, but I always remembered, you know, my mom, back in the days of saying that, you know, the ladies who throw panties for Marvin Gaye. Yeah, yeah, that's been going on. So, you know, I never really planned that, but I welcomed it, of course. You ain't say no.

I ain't say no. Yeah, we ain't throwing back. Nah't say no don't do no bad yeah nah so I mean it was it was it was it was it was a situation

I was just happy that it was happening to me you know what I mean so yeah because of your heroes in the past yeah absolutely

rappers don't know LL except for LL yeah yeah yeah LL that's the man that's the man yeah man he transcended it

like he was still you know street with it and still yeah yeah that was a good dude shout out yeah LL that's the man That's the man Yeah man He transcended it Like he was still You know Street with it And still Yeah yeah Yeah that was a good dude Shout out to LL Yes

So is there anybody That you wanted to work with And you didn't get a chance To work with I really really Where's the camera Is there the camera right here I really want to work

With Mary J. Black That is so dope I really want to work With Mary J. Black That is so dope You know what I mean? I actually, and also Mariah Carey. Okay.

Maybe. Because you was the first Nick Cannon anyway. We going to get there. We going to get there. I know you sitting around and everybody talking about Nick Cannon. I've been here. I know how you feel. Come on. I'm going to look at the camera

Mariah Carey I wanna do Fire and Desire With you By Rick Jays And Tina Marie I wanna do that with you And I just wanna do

Anything With Mary J. Blige Wow Anything After that No The two people that I've always wanted

To do something with They're no longer here That's Michael Jackson and Prince, but I was able to pay homage to them while they were here. The first CD that I did, Genuine The Bachelor, I did When Doves Cry. The second one I did, 100% Genuine, I did She's Out of My Life. I wanted just to pay homage to them while they were here. You know what I mean? Just like you did with the flowers and all that, that's a great thing. You know what I mean? Just like you did with the flowers and all that. That's a great thing. You know what I mean? And so because they, a lot of artists don't understand how much we inspire people on a daily basis. There's somebody right now in their garage or whatever on their laptop now.

I'm saying garage. I'm thinking back in the days. But they're on their laptop. They want to be the next Pharrell. They want to be the next Timbaland. They want to be the next Kanye. They want to be the next Pharrell. They want to be the next Timbaland. They want to be the next Kanye. They want to be the next whatever. And so those are the two guys

that really truly inspired me. Prince and Michael. Prince and Michael inspired me to set out on this conquest and just to go all out and say, this is what I'm going to do. There is no second plan. You know what I mean?

So I didn't have no second plan. I was like, no, I'm doing this. This is it. So going to do There is no second plan You know what I mean So I didn't have no second plan I was like No I'm doing this This is it So you got to meet Prince Got to meet Prince one time They heard the covers Both of them

The covers you did Michael I didn't I've never met I wanted to That was Like when you saying Which one or whatever Michael was always first to me

You know what I mean After Motown 25 You know that Bub that? After Motown 25, you know that bulb that goes off in your head or turns on in your head to let you know this is what you're supposed to do. That's what happened that night.

I was a kid. Let me ask you about Prince. Yeah. You met him. Did he float in? He floated in. He floated in. I feel like he never walked.

I feel like he had a hoverboard back then. I was actually in, what is it, Minnesota? Where he's at? Minnesota. Lake Minnetonka? Lake Minnetonka. Lake Minnetonka is that? Yeah.

We love Prince George. I was at his club. Well, I was at a club. And they said he was coming in to do a set. And so I just finished the show there. So I came in there and I was like, oh, my God. You know, we all turn into fans when it comes to, back in the day, we all turned into fans when it come to Michael Jackson and Prince, and Janet Jackson, of course.

So what happened was I walked in, and I was in there, and I was like, yo, so when is he coming? It was like 2 o'clock in the morning. So he came, and he was like, he here, he here, he here. And I was like, oh, man, I'm scared, sweating. Did you see Purple Shade? Everything. So he came. They was like, he here, he here, he here. And I was like, oh man, I'm scared, sweating. Did you see Purple Shade? Everything. I saw everything.

I saw Purple Shade, Purple Light. Purple Hennessy. I saw everything. I'm getting hyped on the story. Go ahead, continue. So he came up, right? And so listen,

this is real. I'm not playing. I'm not playing. I was up. It was on the second floor. up right and so listen this is this is real like like i'm not playing i'm not playing like i was up uh it was on the second second floor and i think like he had he had trap doors or something in the club or something like i think he he was doing he did this just to say just just for people like myself and artists to say this guy is different this guy, this guy, you know what I'm saying? So I'm walking. And so he just, I swear to God, he just appeared.

He just appeared. Kind of like the Dave Chappelle skin. I'm serious. He just appeared. And I turned around here. And you know the deep voice? And then I remember somebody said. Did you just say Prince had the deep voice?

Yeah. Yeah, he got the deep voice. Let's get back to that. Very deep voice. Hold on. the deep voice Let's get back to that Very deep voice Hold on So I remember somebody I forgot who said

Something He said don't look in his eyes Right Don't look in his eyes Wait don't look in his eyes Don't look in his eyes Don't look in his eyes Just don't look in his eyes

Right So That wasn't hard Saying that That's weird man This dude was like, this is different. Right. So he says, I don't remember what he said.

I'm not going to lie. He said, baby, yo, or gee, or something. And I turned around, and I see him, and I immediately said. You did not make eye contact. I did not make eye contact I said Oh my god I'm doing it Oh my god

It's so great to meet you Oh man Thank you Man listen You know I wanted to be Hobbits to you I'm doing this He's looking at me

I'm like this You're looking down On his platforms I'm not looking at you And so Because I'm still a fan. I don't care about, you know. So, and he told me, he was like, I don't usually let, I don't usually like people to do my songs.

And I was like, I was hurt. My heart dropped. And then he said, but you did a good job. I was like, thank you. So, here's what happened. Here's the magic. Here's the magic. Drop and then he said but you did a good job Here's the magic so my people was there I was like Joe he say cuz he was like like but I was I was talking to him right so Thank you dog. And I was like, oh did you hear that? No, I He's gone He's gone Disappeared Just like Prince Oh my god He didn't stay around

He didn't Like that was That's my Prince story And that's The true story bro God damn Everybody who ever Reacts

Who ever met Prince They always say He floated Like they got Like a crazy story I have never met Prince and I've never met MJ I've never met Tupac neither wow I did you met Tupac well was it when you said you guys were dealing with Death Row yeah um the first time I met Tupac

um he came in the studio and we was in um uh I know you know this place. New York? Let's go. Manhattan Center or something. Manhattan Center, okay. Right? Am I saying it right? Okay, yeah. So, Devante, we were in a studio with Devante. It was me, Static, and everything, and Madonna was in there. Madonna was in there.

This is when he was messing with Madonna or something? I guess, yeah. There was, yeah. I ain't getting in their business. I ain't getting in their business. Everybody knows. But, yeah, he came in. And she ain't go back. It's true.

Once she went black, she did not go back. I'm sorry. He came in. My bad. He was like, yo, what's up, and all that. So that was, like, one of my first times. And then my boy that wrote Pony, he was a big, huge fan of Tupac. He walked in there, and his eyes was like. wrote Pony, he was a big, huge fan of 2-5.

He walked in there and his eyes was like, he was gazed at him, I was like, wow, dude. So yeah, he was like, what's up little man? I was like, you don't even know I'm older than you. I said he called you little man. He was like, what's up little man? I was like, yo, what's up, dog? But yeah, he was always a cool dude though, man. Always a cool dude, man.

It was a couple times that I met him because we were always connected with Death Row, bro. I was the first artist with Danny Boy on his first single. That's me on the hook of Danny Boy's first single. And Danny Boy was the first solo artist off of Death Row. And so that's how all of us really connected. You know what I mean?

Is it true that you was at Biggie's party? Yeah, I heard the shots, dude. Really? The Soul Train Awards, right? Yeah, it was the Soul Train Awards. A lot of people have that story, and all the other specifics and stuff I don't know about, but it wasn't because it was, you know, somebody fighting or whatever.

It was like a fire hazard. And so they was- Too many people in the venue. Why did they evacuate the party? Yeah, evacuated the party. And so, you know, it was so hard getting your cars for some reason. And so if you look on the Internet, they'll show you. They'll say the names.

This person was there. And they'll show us dancing and all that kind of stuff. And, yeah, we actually heard the shots. But we didn't think it was L.A. This is what happens. And so we went back to this hotel called the Nico. But we used to call it the Negro. The Nico Hotel, now it's the SLS.

Yeah, yeah. First Street was for Fat Burger. Absolutely. Yes, yes. Absolutely. And so we was over there, and that's when we found out what happened and who it was and all that. So, yeah, it was a crazy night, man. But the night before that, it was just, man, it was just fun.

It was very very very much fun yeah but we were there me missy timberland alia um uh there's a lot of people yeah i believe alia i believe i know missy was there it was me missy because we came together me missy um timber i believe timberland was there um but yeah, we came together. Right. And you said you heard it. We heard it. We heard it. We heard it.

Yeah, because we stayed until that happened. Right. Like, we were evacuated. Everybody was like, okay, yeah, leave. It's too much and all that. And we heard it, but we never thought about it. Because we was on the other side. We were on the side that they were pulling up the cars or something and so we actually heard it we actually heard it and how did that feel you know um although like you know i i kind of engaged with the east coast west

coast a little bit on the record but i never got to experience none of that. Yeah. How did you feel, like, knowing that? Because I never, until Biggie and Tupac, like, we didn't think that beef would have got that far. It was real. It was battle rap. It wasn't really about, like, testing a person's coast or testing a person's city or testing a person, period. It was just battle rap. It was just like, yo, I think I'm better than you, so I'm going to say I'm better than you. Right. But this was the first time that it turned.

How did that feel for you, not only knowing what's going on, but you knew Biggie too, right? Yeah, yeah. You knew Biggie. That's why he was at his party. Yeah, yeah, we on tour. You got to meet Tupac.

Yeah. So how did that feel for you personally? Like you, like damn, knowing both sides and knowing where it went. I'm just going to be 100 with you, man. Like after Tupac, we always was like, as far as us as artists, it went. I'm just going to be a hundred with you, man. Like after, after Tupac, we always was like,

as far as us as artists, I mean, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a singer. I'm a, I'm a artist. I ain't in that. Right.

But I was always like, why are they out there? Why are they? Yeah. I was like, why are they out there? But, you know,

it was what it was, you know, wars was given and everything. We was just partying and all that but it made us not only me just everybody that were that that was involved as far as on the entertainment level it just made us realize like look this is real now you know so we gotta really you know we actually thought after pop like we thought it was subsided a little bit and all that. But after that, we really were like, yo, I didn't go out to L.A. for a long time, man.

And you lived out there. Well, I had a place out there later on, but nah, nah. I frequented a lot, but I didn't have no place out there. I remember me going out there after that happened. It was still like four years later. I was out there in 98. I think...

Apprehensible, right? You're like... No, no, no. I remember record label was physically not letting me land without security. Right.

They would have... As soon as I landed, they would force me because I don't know if they had an insurance policy on me. I don't know at that time. Right.

They probably did. They probably did. It was crazy, bro. It was crazy. They would not let me like travel to... Without that. Without that.

Yeah, the same. How was it? How was it, yeah? Again, we R&B artists, it's totally not the same like that, but we always had our antennas up

because we didn't know at that point what it was. It was like, I don't care if you're R&B artist, R&B, rap or whatever, we're whatever we gonna get you you know what i mean but um for you know it was one of those situations where we just had to you know just keep our eyes open you know be always stay alert and make sure that we're on our square and and not slipping right now they're saying like rappers if you're a rapper that's one of the most Dangerous jobs in America

Absolutely Do you feel like Do you feel like That statement should be Famous people Is Being the most Dangerous job in America

Because If a person Would try to get me I think that same person Would try to get you Is that fair Or are they going to say Man genuine

Fuck my girl back in the days I'm gone I'm just playing Whatever you say No but I don't think back in the days. I'm going. I'm just playing. Whatever you say. Nah, but I don't think it's the same thing. I think the distinction between rap and R&B is the distinction. It's totally separate. And what it attracts.

And the crowds. Yeah, it's not the same. But you still got to keep your head on the swivel. You can't think it's sweet. You know what I mean? Because you don't know what you've done. Just like you just now said, that's real.

Right. Like that stuff happens. Yeah, somebody could. You don't know what's going on. And social media made it worse because people think they know you even more.

All they got to do is say it. Then it... It could be a woman that you never even knew. She just followed you for your whole life and her man is sitting there thinking,

oh, this... You know what I mean? You sitting there thinking, oh, you know what I mean? You probably never even met her. You know what I mean? But she's obsessed with you. He sees that and he sees you somewhere lacking. I don't understand when guys do that. At the end of the day, if that's something that's just happening between your woman

and yourself, why are you mad at the guy? For what? Check that. Don't mess with? Like, don't, don't, like, for what? Like, check that. Check that. Don't, don't mess with that. I don't know you. You know what I mean? You ain't my friend.

So, I don't know why guys do that, but a lot of guys do that. That's, that's what it is. Has that ever happened to you? Someone confronts you and say, man, you ain't even heard that.

Mace Skip is like, yo. That had to have happened. That had to have happened to you. Like, yo. There had to be a dude that blamed you. Yo, Genuine, leave my girl alone, Genuine. Leave my girl alone, Genuine. But you ain't going to get what's so close to me. You know what I'm saying?

But you can say what you want. I'm sorry. But not in person. That's never happened. No, listen to me. I'm bad. He didn't really talk about it. All right, all right, all right.

Of course course that has happened but again I don't know you dude he's not my friend

I don't know you like check your girl what are you talking about I ain't hearing that

you know whatever I got guys that's gonna do what I need them to do oh my god what happened

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that God. Okay. What happened? Look, that's the niggas. Them niggas hating on you right now. Them niggas hating on me right now. How did that even happen? Niggas is like, you ain't going to say sorry, did you want? That's the spirit of an angry boyfriend.

I don't even know how that happened. All right. Jamie, can we get some towels? Yeah, we need to get some towels right here. I got napkins here, too. Oh.

Yeah, that definitely has happened, brother. Yeah. Yeah. But that's your job is to make music and make... No, you didn't get me. You didn't get me. You didn't get me.

You didn't get me. Because that's your job is to make people have babies through your music. Right. You know how many people... That's your job. Yeah. No, but it's true, though. Have babies.

You know what I mean? Babies, you're responsible besides your own. You know what I'm saying? Because of the music you make. You're making the music Right To get People in a

A mood A mood And hopefully I mean that's what R&B always was It was like yo I always have been Always will be You know I mean

This is what we do We try to We try to make the music that Allows you to feel where you are And just You know Make love and all that. You know what I mean?

Because that's what R&B is, man. We're not trying to tell you to go shoot nobody, no. We got this money, we got this, we got that, but you know, at the end of the day, man, it's all about love, it's all about respect. Thank you, J. Appreciation, you know what I mean? Like, my favorite music I used to make,

people used to come up to me and say, man, I went to jail in your shit. I was like, damn. Like, damn, why? Like, people come up to me and say Man I went to jail in your shit I was like damn Like damn why Like people come up to you and say You made me go to jail You made me go out there and shoot somebody Yeah

But people gotta come up to you and be like Yo genuine Three of my kids It's because of you I didn't get a lot of respect From the brothers Until I did Same OG Same OG

That's when the brothers said They gonna stop hating on you After that The brothers was like They said you had ass curls He was like OG same OG yeah after that the brothers was like they said you had ass curls he was like yeah

you got ass curls you got ass curls you nice girl you dig it but you alright you alright you alright I said alright

I'll take whatever it is it's all good it's all good but yeah man I didn't get too much love until you know especially from the brothers much love until, you know, especially from the brothers, until after same OG.

You know what I mean? So you're telling me that when you had shows in the beginning, the shows is 90% females? 95. Yeah, I would say even more than that. Yeah, 95. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good thing, though. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because there's no violence. Yeah, 95. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good thing, though.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, because there's no violence. Yeah, absolutely not. Nothing but love. Nothing but love. Nothing but love. Nothing but love. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

95% man, like back in the days. Yeah, man, because it was, you know, a lot of the promoters that we were dealing with they knew how to um you know piece it together that's why when you said earlier that you was on the show with me i have been on those shows i was on the shows with lil wayne right hey yeah cash money i was like what the hell do y'all got me on the show vice versa yeah vice versa, yeah. What the hell? And so that absolutely happens, man. So that's why when you said that, I can relate. I understood that, man. But that's why Lovers and Friends is a good concert.

Great, great, great. Because it's like six different stages. Absolutely. Everyone's crowd is going to go to their different stage. Yes, yes. I believe I had Dipset, which made sense, on the stage that I performed on. And I forget who else was on my stage. Who was there? Who else was on my stage?

Chingi was there. Who? Chingi. Chingi, it was like, they had like, you know, my kind of like- This thing is weak. This thing is weak. So it'd be like- So like my kind of era of hip hop, when you hit the stage, was that a R&B stage?

I really don't, I don't really remember. I don't give a fuck. I don't know. I don't know. I really don't remember. I think it probably was, though.

I think they had it set up for, I think Chingy was on my stage. No, that was my stage. It was? It wasn't on my stage.

Chingy was on your stage? Yeah, unless Chingy was running around on everybody's stage. It was rappers on my stage. Yeah, it was rappers on my stage No Chingy was on your stage Yeah Chingy's on Unless Chingy running around On everybody's stage Make up your mind What stage you on It was rappers On my stage

Yeah it was rappers On your stage Okay Yeah I mean I think the I think the The time thing I think they try to do also

As far as like Like the years 90s 80s I mean Like the era The era That's what I believe

Yeah yeah yeah I think that's probably What And I didn't actually know that was Usher's concert. You didn't know that? No. No. Yeah.

Because even on the flyer, it's got Usher big as hell on the top. And that's his song. That's his song. That's his song. There's plenty of songs that's named after something. And he owns Vegas right now. But Ed, let me just tell you something.

He owns Vegas, man. They was so professional. He owns it. I was like, wait a minute. I got a big usher up. We got a big usher up. Oh, yeah. Definitely. They knew we were going to get the carts from this point to this point.

Oh, yeah. You could tell that it was an artist running the show. Although I didn't see usher. I saw everybody but usher. But usher, okay. And Lil' Kim. I didn't get to see Lil' Kim. Oh, yeah. From, huh?

We were on the same stage. Ooh! You was on the same, you was on the same stage. I ain't giving up! I'm giving up! I'm giving up! I'm giving up! Yeah, but you could tell that was,

afterwards I noticed that artists want to take care of another artist. We don't really want to be put in that position where we can't take care of each other. So I'm guessing. He knows the needs. He knows what it is. Has there ever been a time you went to a show and was like, man, this shit is not to put together. Let me get the fuck out of here.

Or you just, yeah. I shit is not to put together. Let me get the fuck out of here. Or you just yeah. I walked out of some shit before. After I performed, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because like if you pay me. You're already there. Yeah, I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do. Even if it's unorganized, you don't really give a fuck. You got my money?

Yeah, you got my money. We're going to do what I got to do. Oh, wow, yeah. you don't really give a fuck. You got my money? Yeah, you got my money. We're going to do what I got to do. Oh, wow. Yeah. I don't stay. I don't stay. Now, especially with the tours and everything that I'm on, I usually never stay.

I go do what I'm supposed to do. Because pretty much we tour with each other a lot throughout the summers and all that kind of stuff. So I've seen pretty much everybody's show. So I don't really stay a lot. I go do what I'm going to do, then I'm out. Let me ask you. What's on your rider?

That's the specific. I actually came up with a show called Rituals and Riders and I was trying to come up with you know saying you know what outlandish things that some of us artists come up with to have on our rider and there's really no I'm sorry that part

of it is that you're not going to be entertained by that at all. Don't tell me. Water juices. Coca-Cola I'm assuming. Coca-Cola, Henny. You ain't got just the yellow M&M's.-Cola Coca-Cola, Henny You ain't got just The yellow M&M's Yeah, yeah I know what you're talking about You ain't got just that

You ain't got that I know what you're talking about I had two cases of snapples On his ride Nah, nah, nah I ain't gonna lie Not me, not me You don't have a crazy ride

Two cases of snapples Not me I don't do that You don't have a crazy ride No I went to Seafood a little bit That's about his

Crab legs That's about his crab legs. That's about his little crazy. A little crazy? A little crazy. The room smelled different. Yeah, yeah. Then you got to receive the panties after that. That, yeah. I went to

Japan after LL. The promoters loved me so much. They said after LL. After LL. Because he must have had the worst ride of everyone. Oh, my God. He had them getting green apples.

Oh, God. And in Japan, I guess that's exclusive. So I guess like red apples is standard in the world and green apples is not. Something like that. It might be backwards,

but he had them doing some crazy shit. And I had cigars, Hennessy, at the time I was a Hennessy drinker, and cigars, Hennessy, and water.

Yeah. And maybe a Gatorade. Yeah. Gatorade. Pino at one point. That was it. It was simple. No, no,

I'm talking about when I went to Japan when I went out to LL. So you telling me you don't got no crazy shit on your wife. It's crab legs. Okay,

it's crab legs. Okay, okay your wife Just crab legs Just crab legs Okay okay Okay crab legs That's that DC shit Yeah That DC shit Y'all Baltimore Yeah

Maryland Yeah Lord them crabs How has it been Seeing your audience From the early 90s Grow up with you You know what

Throughout my My tenure In this business, man, it's always been a blessing for me to just see the people grow with me. And I've always said, I'm not going to be the artist now that's trying to do the things that the young cats is doing right now, because I think that's corny. I would never do that, you know what I mean?

So I think the people that's been with me throughout my time in this business, of course, they're still here. You know what I mean? My age thing is like 25, whatever. You know what I mean? 30 on. So I don't really buy into just doing what everyone else is doing. I think that, you know, as an artist, you got to continue to build with the people that's been following you for the years. That's your foundation.

Yeah, your foundation is there. So cater to them. Don't try to, they got who they have. They got who they want. They got who they like. Don't try to be that. You know, continue to move on your legacy and keep moving in your time and people will support you, you just got to do the things

that they feel is interesting and you know, and doing the things that you've been doing, but at that point, like when the people constantly, you know, support you. They have to realize that at the end of the day, you should not change. They shouldn't change. They should go,

they're going to be there and hopefully they'll just still support you. Period. And how is it having a cult following? Because that's what it seems like. I don't have no cult following. I don't think. I don't have no cult following.

I hope I did. I wish I did. I wish I did. Loyal following is probably better. It's a loyal following. Some people might take it as a cult. We just said earlier about the followers. And what did you say?

Sometimes it's a cult. It's a cult. A religion is what I know to be have followers. Right, right, right. When you're out 25 years, most people say in five years, they tired of this artist. Oh, shit. Two years. Right now, six months.

Facts. You know what I mean? Right now, six months. This shit is disposable music. Right now, six months. Facts. You know what I mean? Right now, six months. This shit is disposable music. Disposable music, yeah. And for you to have such an illustrious and, you know,

career that lasted that long, it has to be like seeing, like you're going back to Minnesota, you probably see that same dude that was there

10 years ago and that shit is dope seeing that same female that was there. The kids of your fans. And they growing, they having kids now. Constantly.

That shit has got to be an amazing feeling. How does it feel? It totally feels great to have the following that you have, man. And just when you say the cult thing and all that, that's great, man. That's great because it's a testament to, you know, what you've done throughout your career and the feelings and the people that you've touched. And so that's vital, that's important in order for you to have longevity.

Right, to have a real career. So as long as you do that, I always tell these young cats, like try to do timeless music. Don't do flavor of the month. Do timeless music. Because I've seenavor of the Month. Do timeless music. Because I've seen them come and I've seen them go. I've seen them come and I've seen them go

and I'm like, wow. This is crazy. Probably when you've seen them arrive, they were cocky. They were very cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky.

They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. They was cocky. You're the old. And I was just sitting there like, okay, all right. Because I was told that too, like early on. And that's what, you know, gauged me in.

And I was just like, oh, okay. Just always, just be you also, but also remain the humble person that you are. Because it can be here today and gone tomorrow. One of the craziest things that happened to me was when I went up to Sony and I asked them, I was like, release me. You know what I mean?

You know how it is when a new whole team comes in, takes over a label, and they not even talking about you. They don't even have no regard. They didn't sign you, so they kind of like, they don't have no attachment to you.

They put on the RSA we want to bring in, right. So I'm looking, I'm just like, golly, man. And that shit happens like every five years in the league. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, yeah, yeah. And so I went up there, and I went up there, and I was like, you know what? Y'all not messing with me.

Yeah, I didn't use those words. You know what I mean? Yeah. So go on, let me do what I do. Y'all ain't, you know, I ain't messing with you. And when that happened, the first time that I felt it was when we did a show, and some of those artists from that label were on the show, and the people that I knew that were the reps or whatever,

they was like, man, we can't work with you, man. We can't, because the label said this and the label said that. And you truly, as an artist, feel naked. You don't, because we came up in the era where everything was taken care of for us. Yes. And so, like, when that happened, I was like, it's real.

Right. It's real. So there's never been another time, there's never been a time where you feel so naked in the business. And I was just looking at Unsung, I think it was. And Moni said the same thing. So he was like, once you do that, you don't know where to go. You don't know who to talk to.

It feels like you just got shut out your house. One of the questions we forgot to ask on Quick Time with Slime is major or independent. What do you prefer? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams

and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then. They'll say, when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is Season 2 of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette.

MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working, and we need to change things. Stories matter, and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Wow. I still prefer the major, but not the 360 that comes with the major. And that's just because the time that I was in the business. The independent thing is a great thing, but you have to be a special individual to be independent because you got to be willing to put in that work.

And put up your own money. You put up your own money and risk it. And, you know, for me, I came up during a time where everything was taken care of for you. And, you know, now I'm I came up during a time where everything was taken care of for you. And, you know, now I'm not trying to start over like that. I'm just blessed to be in the position that I'm in to continue to do the things that I'm doing, shows, TV, and all that kind of stuff because of the history that I've created. And you have a gold independent album, right? I have a gold independent album.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. A man's thoughts. Yeah, yeah. That's huge. album right mmm I have a yeah go independent album yeah yeah yeah yeah a man's a man's thoughts yes that's the last chance you know yeah yeah that's that's how people celebrate our independent album at 50,000 to a hundred thousand yeah and celebrate that because most even less I mean you sell 30,000 independent that's true if'm saying is if you was a platinum artist before and you went major, it's like, that was

the numbers from $50,000 to $100,000. You know, obviously, anything more is a plus. Right. But the fact that you had a chance to do that with gold for $100,000, that's really saying I don't know. That's crazy. I was with I forgot the name because we fell out. I don't even know. I don't need to fuck it up Right Right Yeah Cause I was with

I forgot the name Cause we fell out I don't even know I don't want to say the name But We did a We did a good job So

You know For me to continue on After that Was a big situation for me But I realized like Once you get to a certain point And you've made your statement And you've done a lot in the business, you're pretty much on cruise control if you know what you're doing. And I've been on

cruise control for 15 years now. You know what I mean? 10, 15 years. So when people ask me, are you coming out with anything? I'll be like, yeah, but I'm going to do it when I need to do it or I feel it. I'm not going to do it just because you're saying I should do it. And a lot of my friends and people that are around me don't understand that, but it's not for you to understand. You got to feel it. I remember back in the days

where we used to go in the studio and we'd lock it out for two months. We don't do that no more. They don't do that no more. You're probably spending $200,000 doing that. Think about that. With the full budget. It's different. Remember, we used to have

the rails. Yes, yes. Just carry a little dwarf around. You know what I'm saying? We, man, it was just different back then. It was a lot of money back then. A lot of money.

A lot of money being wasted back then. We couldn't punch in. The football department was taking extra money. The good part about that analog is we learned not to punch in. Right. Like, yeah, these kids right now. Make it work. that analog is we learned not to punch in. These kids right now.

I could hear when you punched in, kid. You had to be good. You had to be very good. I always say analog was iller and you picked that earlier. Because, and me and EFN have this debate, and I think we're pretty much on the same side, is that because

back in the days, if you wanted to do a record with me, or want to do a record with you I would have to go to DC or you would have to come to New York we would have to sit in we both filled out the vibe right you know what I'm saying and depending on how we vibe that's depending on how great the record will come out do you think that's something that's missing out here um Absolutely. In you saying that, I was one of, we were one of the artists during that era that had that,

that had that ability to do that. Nas and me. When we did that, he was in LA. I wasn't, yeah. I mean, he was in New York. I was in LA. Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah. I didn't do that gay we we never even have met until the video shoot yeah we wasn't in the same it was physically sending the reels in the mail and that was that was the first time that was not the first time I'm pretty sure but that was that era when people didn't have to be what he was actually crossing into digital at that time. Yeah, it was crossing into it. So, yeah, I mean, I heard him.

He was in the studio. I didn't see him, but I heard he was like, gee, what's up, da-da-da, all that. Oh, you guys were live. Yeah. Because Pharrell talked about even him doing stuff like that. So we did, you know, I was in L.A., and he was in New York.

You got a shot? I think I took a shot for that. Come on, let's take a shot for that. I'm going to take a L.A. and he was in New York. You got a shot? I think I took a shot for that. Come on, let's take a shot for that. I think I took a shot for that. God damn it. We got shots, man. Right here, man. Okay, let's go. God damn it.

Let's go. Salud. Fuck this mama Juana, though. This is fucking me up. So what is your favorite part? Is it making the music or performing the music? Performing. I can tell.

I knew your answer already. He got panties thrown at him. Of course he likes to perform that shit. I'm going to be honest with you. Like I said, when you're on that stage,

I see you having so much fun. Oh, yeah. But not only that. Yes. I see that that's your domain. That's where I'm comfortable at. Yeah, I see that that's your domain.

That's where I'm totally comfortable. I was telling brother um and my sister there gussie um uh we were talking in in the um i can't i can't let y'all know what i'm doing but she they know that i'm i'm i'm actually a little like reserved i don't like to use shy yeah but i'm a little reserved and i never like to come out of my comfort zone right you know i mean so so stage is your stage is my comfort zone yeah you know what i'm saying so i can be silly i can be dumb i can be serious all the all things is doable on the stage you know what I'm saying But I hate the studio Wow I can't Stand the studio bro No way

Ty Ty is like that too My boy Ty Tyrese He's like that too Tank Live in there

He live in there But I can't stand it The quicker I can't get out quick enough Who's somebody who make you feel comfortable in the studio? No one What's something that make you feel comfortable in the studio? What's something that make you feel comfortable? No one's ever in the studio when I'm in the studio. It's only me and the engineer.

Wow. Yeah, I'm not even a producer. I put Tim out. I put everybody out. Missy's like that too, right? Missy doesn't like to record anybody. I'm telling you, that's the history. That's your camp?

That's the history, yeah. I don't, you can't be in here. I don't need you to tell me when I'm off. And then I don't like To have a whole bunch Of people there And then if I do something They say I don't like that

You know what I mean I don't need you to tell me Look I mean Records that I've done I'm good I don't need you You hit a finished product That's all I need you to do

I don't like Nobody in the studio If you a writer Right Give me the The track Whatever all it needs you to do. I don't like nobody in the studio. If you a writer, give me the track, whatever, the vocal track, and get out. I'm good.

But when you come back, you'll be like, whoa, that's what it is with me. Is there anybody you ever worked with and you wanted to work with, got to work with them and was disappointed? No, never. Pretty much? No, never.

I haven't worked with too many people. Boy, that boy know how to party. Of course, Tivolin, Missy. What about Aaliyah? Aaliyah, that's my baby girl I love her Miss her dearly

Yeah Nah Nah Nah Again because It's not too many people That I will allow In the studio

That I will work with Cause if it's something That I didn't like I just didn't do it Right You know what I mean So Now I heard you say that

Missy called you one day and said that she had a dream that Aaliyah forgave you. Yes, yes. And we were all wondering, like, Aaliyah, what did Missy mean?

That Aaliyah forgave you for not leaving Devante on time? No, no, no, no. She had nothing to do with Devante. I remember he said that earlier. At all, at all. Like, that's prior to us meeting her, Missy, Timberland. Or was it the beef with the uncle?

It was just me and her. Like, during that time, here's what the issue was. We all was, you know, like a family. You know, Missy, Timberland, her, myself, Magoo, Player, Tweet, all of us. I love how you keep naming all of them. I love that. I got to. I love that lawyers.

I got to give them the best lawyers here. I respect that. But her and I weren't seeing eye to eye. You know what I mean? And I think it had a lot more to do with her loyalty to her uncle than it had to do... Who you were beefing with at the time?

Yeah, a little bit. Okay, cool. Her uncle, Barry Hankerson, he was the record head and the company was my manager. I just decided to leave because of whatever reason. You know what I mean?

And so, of course, her loyalty is to her family. And so that's where it pretty much stemmed from we ain't had no beef I know this is a woman I ain't beef with no girl you know what I mean but it was just one of those things where our time had you know

separated you know and so I always wanted to make sure that we were cool but you know I never got the chance and opportunity know, to explain whatever it was because things that things that was happening. I'm pretty sure she was just being told whatever it was, the narrative of whatever it was with with me. But it was a lot behind that. And I think at the end of the day, she understood. But Missy came and she told me one time she had a dream that Aaliyah said, don't worry about it, she'll forgive me.

And I cried. That's crazy, guys. That's deep. Take a shot for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goddamn. Yep, yep. Going with the shot.

Rest in peace, Aaliyah. Yep. Woo! What do you think Aaliyah would be if she was still alive in this day and time? I would want her to be on the level where B is. Talking about Beyonce. Beyonce, yeah. But, I mean, you just never know.

I know that she was headed toward that direction. Like, she was doing the movies. Of course, she was doing music. She was dancing and all that. So, you know, we just will never know. And that's the bad thing about it. But I believe she would probably be, because her work ethic was crazy. She would, I mean, she was doing everything, man.

So I think, you know, as long as she kept that up and she was believable, of course, in movies and all that kind of stuff. So she had every every bit of talent that was needed for her to, you know, persevere and continue to move forward in that in that genre and in that entertainment field. So who knows, man? I think she would have been big. Yeah, I would hope she would have been big. I think so. Yeah, she would have been. Special noise been big. Yeah. I would hope she would have been big. I think so. Yeah, she would have been. Let's make some noise for Aaliyah. I got that. Yep.

How was it being the Joanna man? Nah. This guy. Nothing. Nah, Joanna man, man. It was a great time and a horrible time for me. Because, first

of all, it was a great time because it was like my first movie. And so I was nervous as hell. So we all remember how and still is how beautiful and big uh vivica fox here so here's my first movie

and i'm her boyfriend i don't know uh what to do how to do it uh i got a kissing scene so dude i'm nervous as hell and so i'm like Do I stick my tongue Out of my mouth Do I Do I kiss her for real Do I You're not asking anybody this No

I'm in my head I'm like Okay I don't do this Because I'm thinking movies I'm like Make it believable nigga Make it believable Make it believable

So I said Do I do this Do I not Do I So she came And then I happened to ask her I was like Do I? So she came to me and then I happened to ask her. I was like,

look, I don't know what to do on this. You asked her. I asked her. I mean, she's the one getting kissed. Yeah,

it's very true. I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm nervous. You, Vivica Fox, like,

like she, and she, she was so cool though. She made it so easy. She said, kiss me. I said, oh, my God. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Really? Go ahead. That's the one. I was like, okay. But still, even with wanting to. Wait, so did Tongue her down then Hold on

Hold on Yeah But even with wanting To be with that It's still awkward Because it's It's still awkward It's six, seven, eight cameras

It's still awkward So how did that happen I probably fumbled The first time Because I really didn't I really didn't know. Everything else I was cool with, but I was like, okay, you got to, I think she's with some guy. I forgot. Not 50 Cent.

It was 69, I think it was. A guy named 69 or something. Oh, oh. I think she was, no, not. No, no, no. It was like a guy. I think that was, well, I mean, that's easy. That's probably not. Not a gang member, though. No, no, no. He was like a guy I think I was Well I mean that's easy That's public knowledge

But Not a gang member though No no no He was on set That's what I'm saying He was on set No he wasn't on set Oh okay

At least I don't think so I don't know But again This is my first movie I don't know I don't know How they do it I don't know

You know what I mean So she was just like Kiss me And I was like Gotcha Gotcha How many takes Yeah How many takes You know what I mean? So she was just like, kiss me. And I was like, got you. How many takes? Hey, look, I messed up on five times. On purpose.

Cut, do it again. On purpose. Yeah, it was great for me, man, as far as that first start of it. But on that set, my mom passed. Yeah, so it was great. Not only, what's her name, Kim Wayans, her brother passed on that. Oh, wow.

Yeah, and so it was a crazy set, but we got through it, and everybody was, you know, and it's one of those movies that you got to go back and look at. You know how you... It's a classic. Yeah, it's one those movies that you got to go back and look at. You know how you. It's a classic. Yeah, it's one of those movies you got to go back and look at. We're like, oh, this was great.

This was dope. So, yeah, but, yeah, man, it was good and then it was bad for me. And then was that the time you got your love for acting? Or do you have the love for acting way before that? I really never had enough for acting. Yeah. Yeah, I never had enough for acting. That you have the love for acting way before that i've really never had enough i mean i'm just now like uh um opening up to a lot of i've been in parks and recreation i've been in i did a couple of movies honey and uh moesha and all that and. And I knew that just came with it. I just wanted the stage. You know what I mean?

All that other stuff came with it. I didn't know about that. That was new to me. Is it because they have you hurry up and wait? Like that type of shit? Well, yeah. Especially on movie sets. Yeah, you got to hurry up and wait.

Hurry up and wait. And I'm impatient a lot of times, especially back then. I'm just learning a lot of patience. You know, having seven girls, you're going to learn patience. Seven girls? Yeah. So I've learned to have a little more patience. But early on, I had none.

Like, if you get my food wrong in the drive-thru Like I just told you The right order Like why Like why don't you Have the right Like I was very impatient Like I had to learn Patience Like early on

You know what I mean So Yeah cause Movie sets is real Yeah movie sets is real Absolutely real But you did theater I did

Well yeah I did plays And stuff like that, man. But, you know, that was really one of the things that I wanted to open up as far as going into movies and stuff like that. Because with plays, it's so dope. Is it one take? That's it. There you go. You felt more comfortable on the stage there. Yeah, with the plays, I was like, this I can do.

That's more. There you go. You felt more comfortable on the stage there. Yeah, with the plays. I was like, this I can do. It's more your environment. You got to ad-lib. Like with movies and all that kind of stuff, sometimes you can't even stutter. Sometimes you can't even say your line twice or something just to get on to the next line. And you got to do different takes and do it the same way. And that's not me.

I've never been ABC 123. It's always on the whim. I don't practice I don't do none of that People be like I don't practice You need practice I don't practice

I need to listen Even to this day I don't practice Like My singers And dancers And band members They go to soundcheck

I don't go to soundcheck Sound like somebody I know here Sound like somebody I know here. Nah, I don't do that, what you say? Sound like somebody I know? Damn! Yeah, I don't go through that, man. Like, we gon' wing it.

Like, we gon' wing it because I think the best things creatively come to you when you winging it. Like, all the ABC 123, like, of course, if you're doing certain things, I guess it calls for it, but me as an artist, give me, tell me how much time I got. Put the clock right there. 30 minutes? 45 minutes?

I got it. Y'all got the songs? You know what song to play? Let's go. And you depend on them, not a DJ? Well, I have a DJ, yeah. You have a DJ? Yeah, yeah, I have a DJ.

So you do have the song list, though? Yeah, just the song. Just the song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let me do, look at my cues, boom. All that. Do all that. But you'll edit accordingly depending on looking at the time.

Absolutely. So TTG, we never getting TT. Here we go. We never getting TT. Here we go. Let's take a shot. Let's take a shot before we just warm it up. Let's warm it up.

Let's warm it up. Let's get into it. Let's get it up. Let's warm it up. Let's warm it up. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. First off, I know you probably said this, Harvey, other places. But for our fans. Oh, here we go. Our fans. Did Tyrese get to you?

No, no. We had Tank. We had Tank. Oh, Tank get to you. Tank, Tank. But for our fans, we don't know what happened. Right. And we can't see why it can't be worked out.

Right. So just, I mean, I probably know. I don't think I know. But our fans, to the fans out there that don't know, who's probably never heard your side of the story. It's really, to tell the truth, i don't even know a lot of the stuff that the guys has been saying but it has never been because of them right it has always been because of me even falling out of love with music for a while you know what i mean so that's just

what it what it's been i don't even know how to explain i think people form their own opinions when it comes to that but that is so wrong when you know you truly don't uh talk to one another to find out certain things but at the end of the day me i've always felt like listen and if i if i get that love back for that then then i'll do it first of all if i had the love or or wanted to do an album, I'd have done it for myself first. I haven't came out with a CD since TGT

or whatever. It's never been about Ty or Tank or nothing like that. I don't never want to cheat my audience. Ever. If I can't give you to cheat my audience Ever You know what I mean

If I can't give you 110% That's what I always say I am not going in there If I don't feel it I'm not going in there And sometimes it takes people A certain amount of time to get in there And get that love

And that appreciation For what they're doing And just to want to give their best and have that competitive spirit for a while i didn't have that competitive spirit anymore so i just did not want to go in there and cheat my audience had nothing to do with them you know i mean nothing to do with but again but that's why when you say that you never heard that from me because I'm not fighting you. I'm not going to fight the people out there that think something or whatever. Until you hear it from my mouth, that's what it's going to be.

That's what it is. But no, it's never been for Todd, that's my boy. Tank, that's my boy. It is what it is, but I don't want to cheat them. And most it is But I don't want to cheat them And most of all I don't want to cheat The people that support us And wasn't it true that Avant was supposed to be the Actually I started

The whole thing The concept And of course it wasn't TGT we came up with that As we was working With a plane I think that way I don't remember I don't remember but he tied wasn't even out for my first choice it was a vaunt a vaunt was doing a record Vaughn was coming out with a record and so he was I can't you know

whatever and so I was like come on let's call time and so it was um formulated like in 2008 but it never was brought to fruition until uh what 2013 14 whatever it was so um yeah so but but once that happened a lot of other things came in in the play so i was just like ah man okay Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me, that is one of the issues early on. Right. I don't think you get into a group to say that you're better than the group. Like, if you feel that way, stay solo. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

You don't get into a group to say, oh, I'm bigger or whatever. And so that rubbed me the wrong way, first of all. But I was still like, okay, let's, it took a little convincing, you know what I mean? But I was like, okay, let's do this. But it was the second time that the same thing happened because I was already through the first time. And I entertained it the second time. And once that subject and that specific situation came up and it was again that,

I was like, okay, I'm good, son. I'm good, dog. I mean, you can answer this whichever way you want. But when you say that he got more money, are we talking about for the upfront advance? No, no, no, no. Or we talking about-

For show? For show. It was like a show thing. And like the upfront. But then, but, no, no. Oh, we took mom. For a show? For a show. It was like a show thing. And like the upfront. But then, but here's what I presented to, presented, you know,

the second go around. I was like, okay, we can do that, but when the bills come in, you pay that same percentage that you're getting. It can't be,

can't be equal when the bill come in. You know what I mean? So we're going to keep it funky, but let's keep it funky. So once that was discussed, and I was like, first of all, I'm cool, bro.

I'm cool. I'm cool. I'm comfortable. So I don't need to do it. And so I've always been a true believer. The way that things start out is the way that things finish. And so with me

already being on the edge after the first time, going into the second time, it's being that way. I was like, okay, so we won't fight. So we won't hate each other. I'm fine. I actually even say, get another person. I don't know if Tank even actually told y'all this.

I don't know if he tanked those out. Yeah, Sonny tried out. Yeah. I said, I said, get another letter. Like, I'm good.

Get another letter. Get another letter. You know what I mean? And so, I think that's what, you know, what drove me to the point where like,

okay, cool. We still friends. I want to still be, you know, whatever. But I'm going to be honest. It is a classic. Yeah, it is. I love that record.

I don't even listen to my own records, but that CD, I listen to. It is a classic. I absolutely listen to it. What would it take? Nothing.

I can't do it. Speaking from his heart. No, I'm not going to do it. My brother hates that. He hates it. He hates that. But you absolutely say never? Never. Nah, I'm not doing that. Because before you were saying when you're ready.

Now I'm talking about me. I'm not doing that no more. Oh, wow. Do we take a shot to that or not? Yeah, we can. Why you taking a shot to never? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Come on, let's go. I got a shot right here.

Let's go. Come on, let's go. Come on. Hey, listen. Listen. No, you got to take it. Nah, nah. You going to sip this one this time. Come on, let's sip this motherfucker.

Let's go. You never can say never. But I'm just saying, as I say it now. Yeah, don't say never. Yeah, you never can say never. Again, I'm being real with you. Right. Never can say never, but that's the way I am now. Nah. Right. Good. can say never. Again, I'm being real with it. Never can say never,

but that's the way I am now. Good, good, good. Waiting for your shot. Maybe the right situation will come up. I'm watching you very closely, sir. Go ahead. It's not a shot.

This is not... Oh, well. Okay, wow. Because if a label came with the right situation... That's another situation. Let's suppose this. Wait, that's another situation

that caused the situation? Yes. No, let's suppose this. Wait, hold this. That's another situation that caused the situation? Yes. Hold on. Let him expand on that. My bad. Go ahead. What's the situation? I don't even know how to explain this, though, because it's all got to do with the time. Okay. Back in the day, if we if

if we didn't do something that we were supposed to do and we contractually obligated ourselves to do, would they give us a pass? I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

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Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling

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In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban is.

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It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. about the deals back then. Yeah. No, they usually wouldn't give you a pass. This is food for thought. But let me be devil's advocate. You'd be stuck on the label indefinitely if you didn't do

what you had to do. How about this? Let me be devil's advocate. What if a label came to y'all and said, I want to buy TGT, right? I want to get TGT, right? Pass.

But the thing is, I'm going to negotiate with you on the side. I'm going to negotiate with him on the side. Done. going to negotiate with him on the side. Done. No, no, I'm not doing that. No, but what if that label comes with the number you want?

I know, fuck. Forget the number. No, no, no. You want it split down the middle three ways. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's nothing to talk about.

What are you talking about? No, but what if the label came with a number that you liked? I don't give a fuck. Okay. That's nothing to talk about. What are you talking about? No, but what if the label came and with a number that you liked? I don't give a fuck. No. Because you say a group thing, a group thing. But why?

Because you say there's a possibility that someone else... If we are in a group, we are a group. Right. If you want to be solo, just go solo. Leave me alone.

Leave me the fuck alone. I understand your point. Leave me alone. Leave me the fuck alone. I understand your point. Leave me alone. You can't get in a group or anything to say you're better. That now turns it into something else between you and me.

You know what I mean? And so that's why I took the higher road. It's not like we started out as a group and that's why I took the higher road. It's not like we started out as a group. And that's why I feel for a lot of groups. Because a lot of times, that's what you'll only be known for. Feel me? We are three kings.

Solo. Separate. I don't have to do this. You know what I mean? Tank don't have to do this. Ty don't have to do this. Ty don't have to do this. So we did that because we are friends and we felt that it would be something special for the people. But the inner, inner, you know, stuff, you know, kind of messed a lot of things up.

But it wasn't because, you know, I wasn't willing to bend and, you know, try to make things work. I did that in the beginning. If I'd have stuck to my guns, it would have never even been the first joint. Right now, if someone comes and says, 3-3-3, split down the middle, flying y'all to Maui, y'all going to make the record for... There you go. You know what I mean? But we still got to talk. There you go. Flying y'all to Maui. Y'all going to make the record for... There you go. You know what I mean? But we still got to talk.

But yeah. There you go. Never say no. That's what I'm saying. Never say no. I'll make it some noise. I'm thinking this guy and make it some noise.

You should take two shots. Take two shots. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. And then you bullshit right there

You know you bullshitting Here take this too Look at all of them Oh yeah Oh Look at all of them I keep my evidence right here Just in case anybody

You can smell Every cup Is Is Is Deleon in there God damn it Japanese Deleon

So Your drink of choice is Hennessy Yes So you used to like to fight a lot Yes And we call that Look look at me juice. Had the pretty boy syndrome. Skinny pretty boy syndrome.

Because anybody who drink Hennessy in my... Acknowledgement. Yeah. Very aggressive person. You're very laid back. You got it together. Yeah, yeah. At one point...

Oh, you was wilding out When you was on tour Yeah You was drinking Hennessy Yeah Yeah Like Oh

If it was Social media back then It would be a little different Yeah Yeah yeah yeah No tough guy stuff It was just Stupid

Young boy stuff Right Nothing tough guy Like that But yeah Yeah I'm glad there was no Social media back then Yes sir Yes sir Yeah Stupid young boy stuff. They know nothing tough guys or nothing like that. But, yeah. Yeah. I'm glad there was no social media back then. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Yeah. What's, like, the wildest thing you've seen on tour? Oh. Oh, come on. You know I've got to be ready for that question. What? How about below the wildest thing you've seen?

I mean, come on, man. Like the tour, the after parties is always something that you experience and you just say, wow, I never thought this was possible. Like this is, it's like. It's crazy, man. Yeah. When I was younger, man. And I can't imagine your shows because some of the shows that we were doing was a little crazy. You just see a lot of crazy stuff.

Like, I mean, I don't know. Like, I've seen you act so well. Like, that's the craziest thing to happen. The same thing has happened to a lot of artists. When you check in a hotel, some girls or a girl is in your room. Oh, wow. Now, back in the days, we'd be able to be like,

oh, if I had a thought back then, I'd sue the hotel, I'd do all the kind of stuff. But I'm young. I'm like, let's get busy. Let's do this. Oh! You know what it is?

You smash and you got stalker. your stalker Your stalker's coming through you like Fuck it What's up with the bullshit What's up with the bullshit What's up with all that But yeah man And that's the best thing about

Being a seasoned artist That made it through all that Now you can see all the hiccups You can see all the craziness And that's the best thing about being a seasoned artist now. We made it through all that. Now you can see all the hiccups. You can see all the craziness that can happen later. And you try to, you know, remove yourself from that situation. And so, like I said, like, I'm glad it wasn't like a lot of social media around that day. In those times because, yeah, a lot of crazy things happen.

So let me ask you, what do you like more? Being married or being single? In those times Because yeah A lot of crazy things happen A lot of crazy So let me ask you What do you like more? Being married Or being single? I'm not married I know I'm just saying Oh

Period Like period In overall life Being married Being married I heard you say that Before you said for a man I thought this was a dope speech

You said For a man You feel like a man Should be married Yeah absolutely I feel like It betters us Yeah

You know what I mean Because it It limits our It grounds you It catalyzes us But I also feel like You know

Because of How the world is And where we are You know We're taught A certain way And so I feel like

Yeah Yeah I think marriage Is the best thing for a guy. You know what I mean? Because only bad things come from you just doing a whole bunch of bullshit. It's true.

You know what I mean? Like, only bad things come from that. And so... The crap shoot. You know, I'm looking for that. You know what I mean? You still believe in love. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's nothing like that, You know, I'm looking for that. You know what I mean? You still believe in love.

Absolutely. Absolutely. There's nothing like that, especially when you have the kids and everything. You know, I was speaking to a young fellow, and I was just like, man, when I came home, finally, I mean, once the divorce and all that happened, and I came home and the house was empty, I was like, it's real. Empty, like no towels? No, everything. Quiet, nothing happened and I was like, I don't like this.

I don't like this. I mean, you don't miss it until it's gone, you feel me? I think the best thing for a guy is to have that stability in a woman and kids and a family and just, you know, just be a family man. For sure.

I'm counting on that. I'm here. I'm just gonna shout the dog. Thanks, you are. It's catching up. It's catching up. The hell I get to play, man. Stupid. Yo, um. It's catching up It's catching up Right now I feel like you manage yourself Absolutely

We need You to explain that To these artists One that don't think they can do that Yes And two the reason why artists, one, that don't think they can do that, and two, the reason why. As far as me

managing and doing a lot of the stuff that I do for me on a daily basis, I think it's a great thing for me because I've had so many, well, not so many, two situations in my life that were a detriment to me prospering in this entertainment business.

And so, like, in the beginning, like, I had, like, from 96 to 2001, accountant. Like, one thing I want to say to a lot of the young artists out there, pay attention to the accountants and your lawyers. Wear many hats. Don't just say, I'm on the road, I'm doing my thing, and, yo, the money going to be there. Because the same way that you're working and as hard as you're working, if you get the wrong person to manage that,

they're working just as hard to think of how to steal your money. You know what I mean? There's wolves out here, man. With ties on. Yeah. And stand up. Hey, what's up, dog?

And that's actually their business, how they make money. Man. They don't even got neither. This happened to me twice. Accountants or management? Twice. Lawyers? Twice.

Accountants. Wow. And so the third time, you know, in 2007, when the housing crisis hit hit it was a tough time bro i was asset rich but money poor i think i had 48 000 in my account wow i got rose voices i got all that. But I only got $48,000. Wow. And so during that time, it was more so about the housing and I think Bernie Madoff and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it was a tough time, man. A lot of people were going through it. And so I went to the FBI for this person.

And they basically told me we have bigger fish to fry so basically you on your own kid again for the second time right so from that point on i just said i'm handling i don't care how hard the homework is and the work is i'm gonna handle it myself and i could not have done nothing better than to do that man like and so now i'm sitting good i'm comfortable i ain't rich rich rich or whatever but i'm very comfortable don't need to sing no more have accountants don't need nah i mean i i have um people who pay a tax plate no no i have a place that we reconcile every quarter. Okay. And this is what you made. And then I just pay quarterly. Right.

Because that's what it's truly about. They have no access to your accounts. Access to no accounts. Period. They just advise you on how to pay, who to pay, what to pay. And that's what a lot of guys don't understand. A lot of artists, not just guys, females, everybody. You got to take control of your life because at the end of the day, no one will care about your life more than you.

So you got to take control of that. And so, you know, that's what I did in 2010. And so from then on, I don't have no manager. Don't want no manager. Don't have, you know, accountants that have access to your money and all that. I do everything in-house. I hire a person that handles certain situations, but no one has access to the things that I got going on. So, yeah, man, but damn, man, if I knew what I got going on So Yeah man But damn man

If I knew what I knew Now Then Man I'd be in such a better position But Let's make some noise for that Let's make some noise for that But

But You being as busy as As you be Like you said I think you said You almost probably do 20 shows a month If you wanted to Yeah I'm gone every weekend

Not 20 Right But I just think Friday, Saturday, Sunday And you negotiate All those shows yourself Every show Yourself

As yourself Every show Every show I'm looking at you Every show Right Yeah Is it ever an awkward

Conversation No With a person That's what I need That's what it is That's it That's what it is Very simple

Very simple That's Honestly Cause you know You know I. That's very simple. Very simple. That's honestly. You know, I said it because the artists feel awkward. The artists are just like, I don't want to talk to you. No, I don't feel awkward at all. You're talking about my money. You feel me?

Because there's not a lot of stuff to do that. My brother's right there. He'll tell you, listen, are you free? Yeah. How much you need? X amount. What do you need on your wallet? Boom, boom, boom.

Same in the contract. That's what it is. It's not a lot to that, bro. It's not a lot to that. Now, the manager, it's specifics and all that kind of stuff. Because, believe it or not, a person can put certain things in the contract and be like, oh, he said, but you just got to have a person that can just read it, read it, read it, and I actually sit, I sit through it.

A lot of them, if I don't, I pass it on to my road manager and we talk it out. And yeah. But you have a road manager, though. Yeah, yeah. We have a road manager.

Yeah, because you need that. Shout out to T. Terrence Williams. Right. Yeah. Damn, that's crazy. That's dope, man. So many artists need to hear that.

Yeah, I don't let nobody mess with my money. Because at one point, I haven't before, but at one point, I had to deal with two situations the same way as you. I bet you did. And I didn't trust nobody. But I would be frightened. I would not tell people it was me negotiating deals. I had a whole different email. I had such and such. Good stuff. whole different email. I had such and such.

Yeah, I had such and such. And they were negotiating with me. They just didn't know it was me. He was saying, it's Jose Gonzalez. God damn it. Calm down. Yeah, but I swear to God. So, I understand that totally. Is that something that like...

I like to let them know it's me, though. But you let them know it's me. It's me, bro. I you let them know it's me. It's me, bro. I'm watching. I'm looking. I'm looking. When you get burned like that twice, man. No time for three.

Oh, yeah. No time for three. Did that make you bitter to a certain extent? Absolutely. Because you know what it is. We're giving the people jobs. Did that make you bitter To a certain extent Because Absolutely Because you know what it is We're giving the people jobs At the end of the day With no disrespect

To any manager out there Or anybody that works Behind the scenes It's still us That's the artists Yes We know that they help make us Right

But we also We're giving the opportunity We're giving them the opportunity And I just feel like They should honor that To a fault But we also We're giving an opportunity We're giving an opportunity And I just feel like They should honor that To a fault Yeah

To a fault It hurt Both times I went through it Man That truly hurts When someone that How Just to put things in perspective

You as a person You just you're looking at a person to guide you and take care of you like your mother or your father. Right? So when that person violates that trust, it's a stain on your heart. It's a stain in your mind. And so it took twice, two times for. It's a stain in your mind. And so it took twice, two times for me to be like, I don't, fuck you. You know what I mean? So that is, it's messed up, man. And so I just feel like, you know, when you take on a job like that, just have the best in mind for your client.

Because a lot of people don't understand, even managers and people like that, as long as you make that one person successful, so many other people are going to come to you. Just do right. Yeah. Just do right. come to you. Just do right. Yeah. Just do right. I respect that. Just do right. And so a lot of people don't understand that.

It's just like that story about the goose with the golden egg. The fox came out and killed the goose and thought it had a billion eggs. Come on, man, you got to enjoy and understand the process of making that situation a situation and building from that situation. A lot of people don't understand that. They just in there for the quick money.

You shouldn't do that. Enjoy the process. Enjoy always being around the element of you being able to move forward. You know what I mean? And that's why I've always said, I don't have to be number one. I don't have to

be on the charts. But am I in the room? That person going, oh, I remember Pony. Oh, I remember this. Yo, can you do this? Can you do this? That's how you continue to go like this. That's how you continue to build, build, build.

The person that I'm too good to talk to anybody. Nah, you need me. You need that. That's not the person that's going to prosper. When he or she falls, they're going to fall like this. When the person that has made those connections, made those, you know, friendships, they're going to go like this. Because of the people that are in the room. Right.

You know what I'm saying? So that's what you're supposed to do. You always maintain your humbleness. You always maintain and understand that nothing lasts forever. Always know that you can be here or you can be there. Yeah, do right by people.

You got to do right by people bro Cause they might be at one point in a different position You got your shot ready Come on I'm here Let's go Oh my god That was

So In those jeans. He wants to know what's in those jeans. In those jeans. In those jeans. I got to make sure this is right here. How many times you get tagged on Instagram a day? A million.

Where people just showing youing you End day jeans A lot Did you make End them jeans While you had on A pair of jeans I didn't make Those jeans

While I had on A pair of jeans But Let me give you a story Okay let's go Let me give you a story I'm in I don't know if I said it

Go ahead you can say it Nobody listen to us I can say it Okay Yeah you can say it So I did a song called Hell Yeah. Mm-hmm. R. Kelly wrote that song.

Let's big up R. Kelly. Yeah. All right. Okay, now I'm comfortable. Now I'm comfortable. Yeah. All right, cool. Now I'm comfortable.

Now I'm comfortable. Go ahead. Oh, stretch, stretch, stretch. So, and that's two stories. Okay. So, he wrote that song for me right And I was like Oh that's dope

Boom boom boom And then he So fresh So clean So shiny Girl you're so mean Why you doing this damn thing You need more room for me

In those jeans I said what Oh he made his own version in those jeans. I said, what? He made his own version. In those jeans. I'm going to take that. I'm going to take that. I wrote a song about it. I wrote that song from

that song, from that piece. When I wrote that song, I was like, yo. Kelly didn't like it, though, for real. He didn't like it. He didn't like it. But I wrote that song.

What did he call you and say? You pretty boy? Oh, no, no. He didn't. You pretty nigga. Nah, he didn't. He tried to do the New Jack City scene on you? No, he didn't.

Come on, let me tell you. Talk about it. Talk about it. He didn't do that. What happened? Well, he called the label. Oh. He sticks. He sticks. Oh, that was Well, he called the label. He called. He sticks.

He sticks. Oh, that was slick. He called the label. Okay, he called the label and said what? That's a homie there. That's a homie. So, you know, of course, you know, it was a little static in the beginning. But, you know, the label was like, nah, this a hit.

I don't care what you talking about. And so we came out with it. So, you know, shout out to Ah, man. But, yeah, In Those Jeans was one of those songs for me, man. I was just like, I was just being creative. I was just being a creative dude. You know what I mean? And so, again, I was in Miami, I think it was.

Fat Joe, Jyro, all of us was, you know, we were in the same. It's in those jeans. Yeah. No, we was in the same vicinity. Yeah, it was a level nightclub and shit. We was doing our thing. But, yeah, it was great, man. It was great.

Great experience. Great experience it was great, man. It was great. Great experience. Great experience, Inno James, man. I said, listen, I'm just like, what was that line Jay-Z said, you made it a hot line,

I made it a hot song? At that time, he was going at it. That's what I was, a little bit, just a little bit. Just a little bit. He made me mad.

He made me mad because he caught my label. He made me mad. He made me mad. he called my label. He made me mad. He made me mad. He called your label and said, can you wind out here? That can't go out

and the label's like, yes, it can. Yes, it can. So it's all good. That was a good one. Give me your jewels. I'll give you your jewels. I know I'm bouncing around.

Yeah, do it. Do it. Do it. Two reasons I cry Oh Come on man Don't do that I have a record called Sometimes

Okay It's a great record About my father passing away Wow About my father passing away Okay gotcha And I don't listen to it Yeah me too

So when I I was like What I was like Of course I listen to it As I made it Of course Of course Of course You have to listen as I made it. Of course. Of course.

You have to listen back. Of course. But physically, sometimes people will put, I'll jump in a car service somewhere, and they'll be like, oh, shit. And they'll put it on a playlist. And as soon as that record come on, I'll be like, a little bit of respect.

Can you push that? Yeah, push that. Because for me, I made the record to vent, but I didn't make the record for me. I made the record To vent But I ain't make the record For me I made the record For everyone else going through It was therapeutic It was therapeutic

Yeah I made the record For everyone else That was going through it And when I heard you say That same story I was like I was like

Man That's a connection right there We don't even know And that's crazy So have you listened to it Set I mean I have, but maybe twice. Okay.

On purpose or it was just probably playing? I've never actually put it on and just listened to the whole thing. No, it's always been little pieces and all that kind of stuff. So no, I've never so so now I've never done that I've never done it because it's too emotional yeah a lot of people that haven't experienced the things that we've experienced in writing those type type of songs they won't understand they won't understand that you know I mean so if I actually listen to that I can't even function no more. Like you said, your engineer left out.

Oh, yeah. My engineer left out, too. My engineer and Corey Rooney. Corey Rooney, holy shit. He left out. Right. He left out. He needed a moment.

Yeah, they needed a moment. Who engineered that? Was it EZLP Engineering? I don't even remember. I don't even remember. No, EZLP. He produced it. Yeah, he produced it.

EZLP produced it. I don't think EZLP was there. It LP. He produced it. Yeah, he produced it. Easy LP produced it. I don't think Easy LP was there. It was Kev Kyes. Duh. Actually. They left out. Yeah. They left out.

It was heavy. We had to, yeah, we had to take a moment. Yeah, everybody had to take a moment. Yeah. Because they heard it in my voice. I was cracking. Right. And I was crying and all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. It was therapeutic, though. You know what I mean? I had to get that out. That actually helped me. Right. Right.

Because you went through that back to back. Your father, then your... Well, my mama... I mean, my father, then my mama. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And would both of y'all think that that record would help other people going? That's the only reason why I did it. That's the only reason why you did it.

It was like, you know, I did the same thing. Actually, you probably didn't do it for me. I did it for anybody that was going through it. Well, in fact, I did it for me and the people.

But I had to let it out, bro. Like, I was hurting, bro. Because I can tell you don't address everything. I was hurting, bro. Yeah, yeah. I'm one of those guys that I keep everything to myself.

But that's why I also read that you went to therapy Yeah, absolutely Was therapy helping you go there? And I also read that You're talking about depression, right? Oh, well, yeah For that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah I still battle with that though You know what I mean? A lot of people You know what? What's funny is like You can have all this All that You know what I mean? People lot of people, you know what? What's funny is, like, you can have all this, all that. You know what I mean?

People don't know when you go home. You'll be like, like, a lot of people don't know that. And so I battle with that on a constant basis, on a daily basis. But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm constantly moving forward. And that's what's most important. Don't allow that to dictate what your movements and what your prosperity will be. Fight for it. Move for it. Fight through it.

Love. Keep going. You know what I mean? Because that's what it is. Life is a journey. Life is a fight. You can't, you know, I mean, it is what it is. And you know what? I always

find healing in to see things that other people are going through. And I'm like, why are you complaining? I just posted something. It was a young guy giving

someone in Africa bread. I was like, wow. I'm worried about, it doesn't mean that your feelings don't have any merit or anything like that, but understand that this puts it in perspective. Way more than you are going through. And that's what I find strength in. You know what I'm saying?

So I don't sleep in my thoughts or my, all the other stuff that comes with me being me and all that kind of stuff. I find strength to move forward in what others don't have. You know what I mean? Because that's where your strength comes. You know what I mean? And so that's what builds me up.

That's what makes me who I am, the man that I am. You know what I mean? Because everything that I be like, oh, I can't I can't I can't do this or do that. I'm like, damn, they are living on the street. You got a mansion to go home to.

What? Right. Shut up. Right. Shut the fuck up. Right. Real talk. Work. Work. That's what you got to do. You got to work. And I'm a worker, dog. I posted something a few days ago. I was like, look, because

this guy, he was supposed to clean my fountain. And I know how to clean my fountain. I was like, you know what? Don't clean it. I'll clean it myself. You know what I mean? So, we got to... Okay, we're not going to skip over the fountain. In fact,

you got a fountain. I got a fountain. A fountain. I got a big fountain. Okay, okay. You got a big fountain. A big fountain. Because I don't think most of us

can relate to having a fountain. Everybody's like, what the fuck is a fountain? So, like, clean it yourself. Just clean it yourself. And so,

I did that, and I found purpose. I found, I found, like, like, like love. You found good cleaning the fountain,

right? Yeah. Like, so, so, yeah. So, that's, So that's what it was, man. I'm always appreciative, and I'm always thankful for any and everything that's been given to me, and I'm going to just move forward. You know what I mean?

I don't hate dislike or nothing like that. I just want to move forward. All right. Oh, that's that good shit. Yeah. All right. That's the good shit, y'all. You don't smoke weed?

Nah, man, I don't smoke weed. Why not? What made you not want to say, let me hit the, let me hit the, the yonde. You ready for the story? Uh-huh. Don't tell me, smoke weed, and it fucked you up one night,

and it never turned me back. Don't say that. Five times, six times. All right, all right. Yeah. All right,

let's get, let's get. This is one of the things that a lot of people don't understand. Like, certain things aren't for certain people.

There you go. You finished my sentence. Feel me? So, I used to throw up every, well, not used to,

I still will throw up every time I smoke weed. Anybody in here that smokes weed be like,, weed don't make you throw up. Yes, it does. It makes me throw up. You don't think it's your anxiety? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

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subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Nah, nah, because when I smoke weed, when I have smoked weed, I be like, yo, I'm comfortable. And then all of a sudden, my stomach says. Not so comfortable. It's coming up, baby. So, you know, it is what it is. There's some certain things ain't for everybody.

Now that Henny, we can do that all day. Let's give him another shot of Henny. Yeah, we can do that all day. Give him Henny and Coca-Cola. Let's give him another shot. We can do that all day. We can do that all day. I can't believe. Yeah, that's it all day yeah nothing else no champagne never never yeah of course all the albums you sold you have done that I've done that can't I've done that I've done all of that. No wine,

no trance. You know, I did a song like that, Drink of Choice. You mean to tell me you in Abu Dhabi and you like

giving Hennessy. Abu Dhabi. Maybe I'll bring my own. That's a dry country. Maybe I'll bring my own. Actually, you talk about the... The Hennessy deal is secure. You're going away.

You're killing it. You're killing it. The Hennessy deal is secure. They already know. They already know. Yeah. And we tried to convince you to drink D'Ussain. It was not helping.

Nah, nah, nah, nah. We was like, yo, D'Ussain, you tried? Yeah, we tried. He was like, it's all love. Salute to dude. It's kind of like, he's like,

I like J.D., but I'm sticking with that. I mean, you want to do a shot? Just a shot? I'm going to do a shot. Adele, that's what I drink.

I drink jelly on. Okay. You want to take a shot of my water? I want to do a shot of what y'all drink. Okay. You can drink a shot

of my water. Just a shot. Just a shot. Marijuana.all drink. Okay. You can drink a shot of Mama Juana. Just a shot. Just a shot. Okay. Marijuana. No, Mama Juana. Listen. You ready for this shot here?

Let's go. I ain't fucking with that. That looks like some oil. You want me to tell you the truth? G-Y. G-Y, you want me to tell you the truth? Listen, listen. Let me tell you the truth.

Let me tell you the truth. They make that in the bathtub. I'm just telling you in the bathtub. Give it a try. I'll the bathtub. Give it a try. I'll smell it. I'll smell it. I'll smell it. It's got a sweet tint to it.

No. Give it a try. No. It's like Hennessy. Are you going to try my shot? You want to try my shot? I'll do it. I'll do the doop thing.

No, no, no. No, no. I'm drinking Deleon. That's some oil. It's Japanese Deleon. No. Fuck no. It's yeah. No, no, I'm drinking Deleon. That's some oil, dude. It's Japanese Deleon. No. Fuck no. It's Dominican.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Where's Jamie going? Tell him to bring him this Japanese. Give me some Henny. We do that. We do that. We do that. Okay, this is...

Okay, now what is this? This is the Japanese Deleon. That's Japanese shit, B. Yeah, exactly. That shit. It's like... Follow him. Look at him. Hurry up, nigga. Hurry up Japanese shit, B. That's Japanese. Look at him. What you back out of it?

That's Japanese and a little Haiti, though. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And look how many shots. Just so you know, look how many shots. We having fun. We've been wanting you on this show for so long. Damn, okay, okay Okay That was a fast

You know how it plays You know how it plays You want another Want another shot of Henny Just on deck Okay I'm going to have a shot I think I got it right here

Is this it Yeah yeah Just on deck Just because Man we've been wanting You on this show for so long Yes Thank you

Can I tell you something bro I want to thank you, man. Why? Because when you started your podcast, everybody was just trying to, and this was the pandemic and all that. Everybody was just trying to get people on. But I was like, he had a purpose. Y'all had a purpose.

Y'all had a purpose. It was like, yo, I want to give you flowers. And boom, boom for a lot of the artists that's been out. And that's one of the only reasons. You got to understand. I got to shout out my singer, Dale Ducford, Red, Ricky Rush, all of them.

Because they was like, they've been talking about y'all. Shout out to them, man. Get up. And thank you for bigging us up. i gotta tell you this is your day man it's about you this is in your one it's a national holiday where we drink deli on yeah man ace of spades and we're waking up Am I wanna Am I Am I wanna to Am I wanna to Well I'm good man

Because That's so oil I don't know what that is I might taste it After I leave Keep it right there I'm gonna take it After I leave

I'm taking it After I leave And you never did a versus Yes You never did a versus Nah I'm never gonna do that You never gonna do that Never

Because nobody can fuck with you No Absolutely Stop it No That's why you're not doing a versus Spread the rule You're never going to do that? Never. Because nobody can fuck with you? No, absolutely not. Oh, stop it. No. I'm just asking. No. That's why you're not doing the verses.

No. Spread the rumor. Junior wants to hear you doing the verses. No. Because nobody can fuck with Junior. No, no, no. Spread the rumor. I'm sorry.

No, no. It's, again, one of those things where I'm totally, that's not my thing, man. It's like I've heard Jay, Kapu, and I'm not on that level. What? Nobody can't stand on stage with him? I can understand what they're talking about. Like, I don't want to do that. No, it's not that standard.

See, you started shit. You started shit. No. No. To me me it seems Sounds like you said No No one can stand

On that stage with me I'm not gonna let you Listen I don't know That's what it sounds like to me Sounds like you're saying That no one can stand On that stage with you

I'm very entertained By that I just don't want To be a part of that I don't even know Why Like I just don't Like want to do that It's a celebration I don't even know why. I just don't want to do that.

It's a celebration. I get it, but no, I'll be there, but no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. And money doesn't make

a difference, none of that. Yeah. You can do it! There you go! You can do it! There you go! You can do it! There you go! Let's suppose,

let's suppose the money came right and they asked you. He changes, his management self says, we're going to have to talk to you. I got to talk to two different people now. I got to talk to the artist in your eye

and the manager in your eye. The manager says, wait a minute. The manager says, yes, artist said, I'm artistic. The manager said, let me talk to you mind The manager said The manager said Yes artist said I'm artistic The manager said Let me talk about it The manager said

Wait a minute So look So look What happens if the right amount of money comes And then they say to you We'll pick your opponent Where y'all can celebrate each other's life What

Who would be that opponent That you would pick It's your choice Now you starting shit no no i don't don't tell me tyrese you can't you can't come out with you don't tell me that i really don't know that's just like uh like you you you've always sometimes like if you're interested in something that you just want to observe it, you see it, but you not want to try to kind of be a part of it,

that's what that is for me. I like to see it. I like to watch basketball. Yeah, I'm not trying to play jump the ball. That's what it is with me. You know what I mean? Anything, everything has its price because you're doing it just because it's something to do, with me you know what I mean I you know anything everything has its price yeah

because you're doing it just because it's something to do but I don't really I have no interest in that yeah I mean I read what I will observe it I'll look I'll say I'll enjoy it and all that but I don't really I don't really know this cuz your catalog is so I know I know I know that's what keep everybody keep saying I just don't want to do this has Swiss and Timberland called you? I'm sure Timberland. Yeah, Associates has called me, yeah. Uh-huh.

No, no. And what they were saying, who they wanted you against? I don't even listen to it. Damn. Damn. Yeah. It's not hard. She said.

Oh, it's just, it's just real. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it I don't want to do it Yeah I've always been That kind of guy Like if I've never been The kind of guy

To get a car Or clothes Or something Because everyone else Has it Right I've always been The person that

If I get it It's because I actually Like it Right Never been a follower Always been a leader Always But the manager

Is also saying If If the money is right We'll We'll formulate it Into The way that you Need it to be

Right And that's That's why I'm glad I'm a manager in art Do the manager part And your artist part Argue If I'm in a situation Because the artist Said no immediately The manager part and your artist part argue? You know the situation right now.

Because the artist said no immediately, the manager's like, well maybe. Oh, but that's the director right there. Oh yeah, absolutely, we argue all the time. We be like, don't you shut up about it. You be like, nah man, but listen, no. Trusting me. Yeah.

Oppositions, it happens. It happens, it happens, man. That is some funny shit, man. That is some... What's left, man? You conquered theater. Let's talk about the reality show. Here we go. Here we go.

You was the first guy that I knew on Big Brother. Big Brother, yeah. You went overseas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They took your phone. All that. They take everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They took your phone, all that. They take everything. Yeah.

They take everything. Wait, what else you brought with you outside your phone? I was like, well, your phone is you. We're cyborgs. I told you that. You know what I mean? But, you know, that's an extension of us. So once you take the phone from us and you take the radio and you take all the outside situations that's happening, now you only have us. You remember when you was like, yo, take all that stuff away.

How can we exist or whatever? You would be surprised now that we still have a lot of the stuff that's in us to just exist. You know what I mean? It happens. But we are so dependent on this. We're so dependent on this. And so we're losing. You're going through withdrawal, I'm sure.

Man, we're losing so much depth in who we are as individuals and just humans, period. We don't talk to each other. You know what I mean? Like, when I take my kids out, I tell them, give me your phones. Give me your phones. Wow. Put them right there. You know what I mean?

Talk to me. You know what I mean? Because if you don't do that, man, how can you know about someone? How can you know about your seed? How can you know about the person that you love the most? So, yeah, man, when we were over there,

I was like in a different world, bro. Did you feel like you was like one of the first people that tried, that they tried to cancel at first Because that was like Yeah with the With the Yeah yeah yeah

Yeah But I didn't know it She tried to kiss you Without your permission I didn't know it Until I got off of it Because you ain't have your phone

Yeah And so I look So it's live As y'all film it It's live Everything is live They got cameras everywhere

No no what I mean by Cause Don't they edit And then send it to the world Of course Okay Of course As y'all film it It's live Everything is live They got cameras everywhere No what I mean by Cause Don't they edit And then send it to the world Of course Okay Of course But um

You don't know what they're editing Yeah I don't know So So that episode came out While I was still there While you was there So you had no idea What was happening

No idea And I almost made it to the end But what happened Cause I don't know What you're talking about A transgender Uh Person A person Um Jokingly happened because I don't know what you're talking about. A transgender person

jokingly. It was like, give me a kiss. And I was like, oh, what are you doing? And it wasn't you know, it was what it was. But I was just like, I didn't know the effect that it would have on me just saying, all of a sudden, I'm just doing it.

I was like, what the hell what are you talking about but one thing that i could always say that most people understood the situation and understood where where it was and it wasn't it didn't get in grant gain legs right because they already knew because it was yeah it it was what it was so um i But I was just surprised once I got out. I was just like, what? What happened? What? Because I was hearing, I won't say no names, but big radio guys was like, he should have sued them.

He should have did this. He should have did that. And I was like, nah, I ain't with all that. You know what I mean? No, I did what I did. Whoa, boom. I'm whatever. nah, I ain't with all that. You know what I mean? No, I did what I, whoa, boom, I'm whatever, ah, what,

move, move forward. It wasn't that serious for you in that moment you did what you did because it is what it is. It's never that serious with me, bro. Never.

I'm like, all right, boom, this is what it is, move forward. You know what I mean? That's real. When you got the kids that I have, man,

grandkids that you have, you see things in a different light. Yeah. And so you put it in perspective. You don't act always on the things that constitute you acting sometimes as

a younger individual. The way that I did it then probably wouldn't have been the way that I did it at 25. You feel me? And that's what's most important with age comes wisdom and so you grow you learn you move forward and and and you set a precedent and an example for other people to build on and then now

they have something to look look at and just you know do whatever it is that they need to do moving forward Right And everybody grows That's the thing That's crazy about today That everything is filmed Everything is Everybody's filming themselves But this is crazy

No I know But I'm saying Even that Like you can't grow from that Because everybody keeps Going back to that Yeah And that's the problem

Of where we're at today You know As humans we grow You mature You learn You experience And you change Facts

And now they keep Bringing No no You are this person When you was this age Or this age Or this age That's not fair

That's so important man Like Because You can't I even look at a lot of Things that's going on Sometimes in the basketball Situation

Boxing situation And all that You know I love boxing And all that right And then I look at know, certain individuals in boxing. I'm like, you can't give a certain individual a certain amount of money and expect them to do what a 50 year old do. You got to understand what you're dealing with. You know what I'm saying? So yes, wrong, right, indifferent. You got to understand what it is. So you can't just beat that individual down and thinking that he's supposed to be that person

or she's supposed to be that person when there's so much put in their lap at a young age and an early age. And it's not to give them him or her a pass but understand what you're dealing with you know it's not fair really you know I mean it's truly not fair so yeah yeah would you do Big Brother again no no no because of that because of that lesson I always felt man, once you do something and you have success at it. It's a wrap.

And you've done it and you've conquered whatever it is, you move forward. It's behind you, right? Yeah. How about theater? Would you do theater again? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a bad experience? Yeah, I think that sharpens you. I think that sharpens you and that allows you to continue on your path to just be great and just to move forward in other situations, man. I think theater's great because you have no chance to do it over. When you do it there, that's what it is. And if you get stuck or caught up,

even, you know, Like Anything that we do We can slice dice On theater When there's a million people Well not a million people You know Thousands of people out there And you're on the stage

You gotta get through it Right That's what sharpens you Right That's what sharpens you So even if you make a mistake You just gotta keep going You gotta keep going

It's not like Yo let me do that over You can't say Oh yo It's a thousand people out there What are you talking about You gotta keep going And they's not like, yo, let me do that over. You can't say, oh, yo, bro, it's a thousand people out there. What are you talking about? You got to keep going. And they don't know you made a mistake unless they've seen the show before.

Okay. There you go. Oh, that's great. There you go. There you go. You got to move. You got to move. You got to move forward.

And that sharpens you. As long as you have that in your mind that you cannot say, cut, let's just do it over. Oh, I'm sorry, but I'm going to. That sharpens you. As long as you have that crutch to say, cut, that ain't sharpening you. That ain't sharpening you. Like, when you don't have that, you got to continue. You got to think on your feet.

You got to move forward. That's what sharpens you. Right. Right. Yeah. Now, I just want to touch on this lightly because, like I said, you said you've been in the game for 27 years. Yeah. I've been in 25, I believe. Yeah.

And I've seen you all over the world. And like I said, I have never seen you depressed personally. Oh, yeah. I've always seen you like a happy person. You always seen you like happy person you always seen each other gave each other love and when i read that you you dealt with depression i didn't understand why but then i read it deeper and it was about your parents and how um it came back to back now and then i also read that it was a pastor that actually helped you with that. You want to talk about

that process? Yeah, absolutely. I attended From the Heart Church Ministries. I got saved in 2005. And so, needless to say, my dad committed suicide, shot himself in the head in 99, and then my mom died the next year,

2000, right? So needless to say, come on, man. You're going to go through whatever it is. How much more? Absolutely. Whatever it is, if you're going to happen, whatever, you're going to go through that. And so for me, again, I always use the word therapeutic. Music was therapeutic, you know what I mean?

And I was able to navigate my way through life, through music, and to just try to find my way. And, you know, in 2005, you know, my then wife, now ex-wife, still great friends and all that,

I used to shit, they used to go to church all the time. I used, like, they used to go to church All the time I used Like They used to go to church And my Makeup for not going to church I used to buy them flowers

Every Sunday When they go to church Oh you buy them flowers Oh yeah So when they So when they go to church I go to the store I buy them flowers

My daughters and all them And when they come back I got them flowers And all that But one day One day I sound like Sonny would day, one day, I just say, yeah, what is church stuff about? It's usually a therapy at first. Yeah, I was doing what I do.

And then I was like, well, okay, let me go through this. And so I kept going. And then the one thing about church and, you know, the people that are in church, you know, pastors and all that kind of stuff that day, it makes you feel very happy. It makes you feel very it gives you a reset, gives you like, oh, man, okay, I can do this, I can do that. And so there was just one Sunday that I felt moved to go to the front

and just get saved. And so from that point on, of course, I made friends and all that kind of stuff. And there was one guy, Porter Lawson, a minister, Lawson. And we became great, great friends. And he just talked me through it.

He was an older cat, and he just talked me through it. And I, you know, I thank God for him. You know what I mean? Because he's a good cat. He's still doing what he's doing right now. And he's the perfect example of what, you know, upstanding, you know, man should be. You know what I mean? And so I've never seen any fault in him. You know what I mean?

So if you're going to follow somebody, you've got to follow somebody that's been the example of what you're striving to be. And so when I saw him and what he continued to do, because I was always apprehensible about anybody. I'm like, oh, y'all money. Oh, you're lying and all that. Like politicians. So when I saw that, I was like, this is somebody I can at least listen to. You know what I mean?

So, you know, in my mind, he proved himself. And so I continued to listen to him and I still talk to him to this day. You feel like he helped you out

more than therapy? Yeah. Absolutely. Because... Like therapy that's trying to medicate you? Because when you're talking To somebody that's went through The same thing

That you've went through Good point Can relate All the kind of craziness And just all kind of stuff That he's been through Man I ain't been through All the kind of stuff

But if you can change Right I know I can change So That's what was Was major change. So that's what was major for me, man. That's what was major. Another thing that I noticed

was you co-signing your ex-wife's new relationship. Absolutely. Professor Griff, right? From Public Enemy? Yeah. That's dope. I think at the end of the day as Homie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think at the end of the day, as an example, as a parent, period, as a man, if you have kids, you want to extend that to your kids. Why do we have to go to court? Why do we have to? Chill. Chill. You've been to court. Look.

He's right, though. He's right. As long as you do it. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right. He's right But he's right though He's right As long as you do it But not even his kids That he's going to court Oh wow That's extra fucked up That's extra fucked up

He's going to court For step kids That's extra fucked up Oh my god That's extra fucked up And that's what I'm saying Like For us

Like it's a generational thing Listen to me Let me tell you something How many Like in my time Like we had Family reunions We had all that kind of stuff

The uncle And our uncles Would choke us up When we doing bad in school And all that kind of stuff That kind of stuff Really doesn't happen no more You know what I'm saying

So we have to As grown men have to extend that same courtesy to our kids and say, listen, everything always isn't going to be perfect or whatever. You might get divorced. You might go through

whatever you got, but this is how you do after that. That's how you make it right. This is the example that you set for your kids. Right. That's what I do, man. I'm not mad.

I'm mad at myself. I fucked up. I cheated. I did what I wasn't supposed to do. Right. You understand what I'm saying? Right. So at the end of the day,

it ain't my... It ain't... I shouldn't be mad at him for scooping up a good woman that you was too dumb to know that you had. Right. That's my fault. Right. Accept that man. Accept that dude. You know what I'm saying yo man it was one

time I asked him to go on the boat he was like I ain't going on the boat with that nigga I was like what the fuck that know I was like yo I'm trying to buy that nigga He's not wrong for that He's not wrong for that He's not wrong for that He's not gonna take that chance I'm trying to find But yo

That's what it was But that's me That's me, man That's the You know I mean I've always tried to extend that Holler brand to him

But you gotta be on the boat, though. Right, yeah. Because I love boats, bro. I love boats. But that sounds a little mafia-ish. Yeah. Come meet me on the boat. We're going to the lake.

Let's go. That's a mafia trick, man. Yeah, that's a mafia trick right there. Besides that, Is there anything You ever regret In your career Never Taking control

Of it From the beginning That's it Like meaning You wish you would've Managed yourself From the beginning Absolutely

But how can you regret that? You wouldn't know. You were young. You were early. Well, you said what I regret. Oh, okay. What I regret. Like, as where I am now, like, damn, if I knew then what I would have done.

If you knew. I feel like regret mostly is when it's something that you could have actually done. But in that time period, you wouldn't have known any different. I agree with you. I agree with you. But regretting... You would have messed up. You might have been mad at your own self as a manager back then. You might have cut him off.

You wouldn't regret it being your own manager. He still can manipulate you. You got to learn and go through it. I keep saying, with age comes wisdom. Yeah, after. I love that. You had to... you know what I, like, I was. Can I go to the bathroom?

Of course, of course, of course. I was about to leave both of y'all. You were right there. Of course. I don't feel bad. Of course, of course, of course. Go ahead, go ahead. I've had a 25-year career.

Favorite part of my career, besides being in podcasting right now, is me in 1998. What is your favorite part of your career? Like, if it was one year, you could boil it down to, or just whatever you want to say. I got you. I think it was probably the second album,

second CD, CD because you know they always think you can't do it twice mm-hmm sophomore jinx sophomore jinx right so and I was scared bro I was very scared because when you coming out with a song like pony and and all I'll do anything I'm sorry which was written by Missy and all that, that took me to a plateau. I was like 2.5, I think it was, sales or whatever. So that's a very, very hard situation to mimic.

Again, on the second time. So, I was very happy when So Anxious came out. I was very happy because I was like, that's it right there. Because I did What's So Different.

That was the leading single off 100% Genuine. And so, Sony and all them was trying to cross me over and all that. And I was like, I don't want to lose my bass. I even knew that then. You know, when he was asking me, like, did you know this and did you know that? I've always, I don't even know what it is.

Like, I always saw it. And I was like, y'all going to mess me up. Y'all going to mess me up. Y'all going to mess me up. And so when So Anxious came out, I was like, that was what my moment was. I was like, even overpony actually because you don't even know what that is.

You're just living in the moment. But after you experience all that stuff generated by the success of those moments, you then know if you pay attention, he's like, okay, now I got to make sure I do this

again. So when So Anxious came out, that was one of those moments. That's right. Man, this has been such a fucking beautiful fucking interview, man. I ain't gonna lie. We've been waiting for this

for six years. We've been stalking your ass. Hey, man, stop it, man. We've been talking about it for a minute. Because we really, sincerely, you know, this is what our show is about.

Our show is, I can't stand. Thank God for y'all, bro. I can't stand when people, like, you know, bro. I can't stand when people like, you know, there's no genre in music that has more than 10 years and they have a word

washed up for them. They call them season, like Rolling Stones, all these motherfuckers still touring for 15,000 years. Exactly. It's us.

It's some niggas that come out there and just die. Right. And they still support their ass. That was everything. And they still support their ass And they still support their ass Yo

You know what I'm saying Like Come on So this is the reason why You know what I mean Like They come on In other genres of music

And we Shit on our own You know what I mean Thank you dog And I hate that I hate that Thank you Thank you

I hate that I hate that man I really I hate that. I hate that. Thank you. Thank you. I hate that. I hate that, man. I really... I hate that. I really love to see when I see you guys on tour. I love to see it. I really like...

I just got a recent chance to see Nas and Wu-Tang Clan in Paris. Ooh, Paris, man. And I got lightly offered to get on stage and I was just like...

Nah, let y'all do that. I wanted to fan out and I did and I did I know this footage of me like this yeah and I don't mind I don't mind I want to give it up to my people and I want my people to understand that and I went to of course I was with Nas of course we both from Queens same damn near same place

so but I just I just loved it to to see the the support right

and I just want us to get you said it earlier like I think that that's what we have to do support each other like for real.

This is definitely one of the reasons because you're a legend, man. You're an icon. You're a king. You're a good brother. You inspire so many people. I try. You do. You inspire so many people.

You make babies and you make other people Make babies And you make So when you When you see Nick Cannon Are you ready? Hold up Hold up

I'm going to do what you When you When you see everybody Talking about how many Babies Nick Cannon had What did you think about that? Told you not to do it That's oil

Yeah And feet and toes No more No more Yeah But I told you not to do it. That's oil. Yeah. And feet and toes. No more. No more. Yeah. But when I see that, man. Yeah, you're going to take his shot.

You're going to take my shot. Okay. Okay. All right. Salud. You just mixed that. You just mixed two different liquors. Yeah, you just mixed two different liquors. Okay, let's go for it.

Let's see. You're the first person to drink to have to do that. Oh. Hey, yo, boy. Let's see. You're the first person in the drink chat to do that. Oh! Stop it, baby. Yo, yo, yo. My brother going to have to pick me up. Yeah, yeah.

It's okay. He there. He right there. So, um, when you see, like, you know, Nick Cannon with all...

And then, you're like, nigga, ah. Because they said just now, recently, that he has 10. And after 10, he doesn't have to pay child support.

Did you know that? Is that a real thing? Is that real? Is that a real thing? That shit is on the blogs. Wait, who's saying that? It's everywhere. Oh, what?

Yeah. Wait, you telling me he made an investment in his child support? If you get 10, you don't pay tax. Stop it. You don't pay tax. you don't pay tax. Stop it! You don't pay tax? Knock it off! You don't pay tax? Knock it off!

I want more! Knock it off! Knock it off! I can't hear you. Bro, you're late! You got there! It's all over the blogs. If you got 10, you don't have to pay tax to finish.

Stop it! Nobody go by what he's saying right now. I'm not going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going to go by what he's saying. I'm going have to file taxes. Some shit.

Nobody go by what he's saying right now. No, it's for the blogs though. It's not him. It's not Paul's story. He said taxes. I don't know about taxes. Child support. I don't know about taxes. I gotta do that. Nobody listen to this because I can't imagine

the number of kids where you don't have to pay for the kids anymore. No, I don't imagine that neither. But the story has been reported. The story has been reported. And you got nine, right? You're like, hey. He's about to say, well, now that you mentioned it. No, but hold on, hold on, hold on.

Yo, his manager said, well, he got 10. Hold on, all my kids are grown. All my kids are grown. All right, cool. You see Robert De Niro out here. I got six grandkids. What, Robert De Niro got new ones? Robert De Niro out here, he got something pregnant.

What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Robert De Niro got one. He got one on the way. Well, I got two new ones. I'm still in the trenches. Yeah. He's 79.

What's funny is I actually want more. That's hard. I mean, you got nine, right? You would be the one to say you want more. Get two more. You Dominican? You must be Dominican. Yeah.

All my Dominican friends advocate for Mad Kid. Big family. So, let's just count in the music business. People who got over. Seven kids. DMX. Yeah. Old Dirty Bastard.

Yeah. Genuine. Yeah. Nick Cannon. Nick Cannon. He up there. How many you got? How many you got? You got like eight or something. Jesus Christ. I didn't up there. How many he got? How many he got?

He got like eight or something. Jesus Christ. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I thought it was only a few. Well, it still is a few. You know, big NBA young boy. You in those numbers.

No, I'm six. I said above seven. You got seven. You said above. You got more? You got more than seven. I said above seven. You got siete. You said above. You got more than seven. Yeah, but, um, yeah. Yeah, but outside, man.

Oh, my God. Yo, J, I can't thank you enough, my brother. Thank you, King. I really, really, really, really enjoyed this. Thank you. I really, hold on. Let's end it with a shot. We got to end it with a shot. You want one of those, right, really enjoyed this. Thank you. I really, hold on, let's end it with a shot. We got to end it with a shot.

You want one of those, right? No. I've been telling them to stop. Don't, don't, don't. Everybody be trying to be nice to you, feeling like, yeah. And then they hit it and be like, yeah. Cheers.

But I really sincerely wanted to give you your flowers face to face. Man to man, what you have been done and been doing. NBA got 10 kids? Jesus. How old is he? He can't be 21 with 10 kids. No.

He been outside. He got all y'all beat then. It is? Man, let's make some noise, baby. Whoa. God bless those kids. God bless. He's been outside.

He's been outside. That nigga said, fuck, Carly. I respect that. My bad. I don't know. I don't know. Listen, my brother. Zero in. Yo, listen, you are truly a legend. I don't know. I don't know. But listen, my brother. Zero in.

Yo, listen, you are truly a legend. Thank you, King. An icon. You are truly what young artists need to see because young artists are making disposable music. And you have made lifetime music. You have made global music. Thank you. You have made music that every

single race color creed can relate to thank you and it's standing the test of time legacy still there thank you and like that's why like you know i did love and hip-hop and i did uh yeah maris boot camp and i always wanted to tell people like sometimes i just wanted to explore and it's like i know that's the same thing about you. You didn't do a reality show or theater because you needed it. You did it because you was exercising. And I relate to that.

But I relate to that from you. Yes, sir. Because I knew you ain't need it. Yeah. And I said, when you did it, I said, fuck it. I like loving hip hop.

Let me fuck with this shit. And yeah, I did it. I did one season. I'm going to battle there. Maybe I'm not coming back. I don't even fuck with this shit. And yeah, I did it. I did one season. I'm up out of there. Maybe I'm not coming back. You know what I mean? But I love loving hip hop. I had a good time.

It's love. But I just, you know, I chill. I love Marist Boot Camp. I love Marist Boot Camp, but I probably won't do it again. But it's okay. Because you got to have that experience. And I love that about you.

I kind of follows you. And what I'm trying to tell you is you deserve these flowers. Thank you. You deserve everything you do. Yeah, baby. Anytime you want to come back. Absolutely. If you want to promote your new S. Carol line.

Yeah, absolutely. All day. Straight in the corner. Anything. You come. Anything. Come here. You want to promote your Beijing line.

We in. We in. We in. We don't mind genuine. We don't mind genuine. You come anytime you want. You come in front of us. Have fun, guys. This is your house, okay?

You need to know that. And then we're going to come to your podcast. We heard you got a podcast. Before we get up out of here, you want to talk about your podcast? We heard you got a podcast. Before we get up out of here, you want to talk about your podcast? We heard you got a podcast. Well, I'm still thinking about it. But I'm not disciplined like that. Okay, you're not disciplined?

You're not ready yet. All right, cool. Just in case if you need us, we will be there for you. We're going to take a picture and some videos. Thank you, my brother. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production in association with Interval Presents. Hosts and executive producers, NORE and DJ EFN. From Interval Presents, executive producers, Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg.

Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by yours truly, DJ EFN and NORE. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials. That's at Drink Champs across all platforms, at TheRealNoriega on IG, at Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases news and merch by going to drinkchamps.com. Hear insightful,

entertaining discussions on today's important health and wellness topics on the health discovered podcast from WebMD Through in-depth conversations with experts, Health Discovered covers everything from tips for healthier living to the latest on therapy and mental health. My goal is to really de-stigmatize mental health treatment and looking at it from a whole health perspective. Physical health and mental health can be intertwined. Listen to WebMD Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.