Drink Champs - Episode 379 w/ Big Daddy Kane

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode the Champs chop it up with the legendary, Big Daddy Kane!Drink Champs Alumni, Big Daddy Kane returns in an unforgettable episode you don’t want to miss.Kane shares more stories from his journey, more laughs and more Hip-Hop!Listen as we continue to celebrate 50 Years of Hip-Hop!!Make some noise for Big Daddy Kane!!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 *Subscribe to Patreon NOW for exclusive content, discount codes, M&G’s + more:  🏆* https://www.patreon.com/drinkchamps *Listen and subscribe at https://www.drinkchamps.com  Follow Drink Champs: https://www.instagram.com/drinkchamps https://www.twitter.com/drinkchamps https://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps https://www.youtube.com/drinkchamps  DJ EFN https://www.crazyhood.com https://www.instagram.com/whoscrazy https://www.twitter.com/djefn https://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions  N.O.R.E. https://www.instagram.com/therealnoreaga https://www.twitter.com/noreagaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. down that day. On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. players in the most professional unprofessional podcast and your number one source for drunk it's time for drink champs drink up what up it's dj efn. And this is Dream Chaps.

Yappy hour. Make some noise! Now, when me and EFN started this show, we said we wanted to always give this platform to icons. And we talk about to legends. And what we're talking about right now, we have an icon in the building. This man, I just heard Mr. Lee say lee say you know he had a flat top not only i had a flat top because of this man my eyes is bushy to

this day because of this man i had cat scratches they was calling it and it was like it's king scratches motherfuckers this man has been influential like i'm listening to his music and i can smell the jellies driving by my hood. You know what I mean? The Volkswagens. The Volkswagens was big, big, big back then with the vanilla, you know, the trees, the tree scents. You know what I'm talking about? And the car.

Like, oh, my God. This man is so influential. He got a documentary. Everyone is participating in a documentary. Everyone is there Giving him his flowers And we had him on before But we are giving him

We got our shit together So we are giving him The real flowers And we're going to talk About Hip Hop 50 We're going to talk About everything In case you don't know

What we're talking about We're talking about The one and only The icon of Impeccable Motherfucking Big Daddy Kane So Kane yo Let's start it With the Hip Hop 50 Motherfucking Big Daddy Kane! So, Kane, yo, let's start it with the Hip Hop 50. Yeah.

Some people are so happy about the Hip Hop 50. Some people are bitter. Some people are in between. There's discrepancies amongst the community. What do you think the discrepancies came from? In particular, the Yankee Stadium? No, we've been hearing different. Well, there's people saying that the timeline is off. It's not exactly 50, that that could be disputed.

And then there's people saying that they feel the hip-hop 50 is being like a corporate takeover, where it's being over-monetized and appropriated is the word that was used, what Special Ed specifically was saying. I mean, you know, if it's giving flowers and paying homage and putting money into artists' pockets, I don't see that being a major problem. Absolutely. But as far as the timeline thing,

I think that the issue comes from other people that basically did something for hip-hop. You know, there are other people basically did something for hip-hop. You know, there are other people that did things in hip-hop before. DJ Hollywood? Say what? Like a DJ Hollywood. There are other people that, you know, did things before Herc. Like, you know, DJ Hollywood, Eddie Chiba.

You know, these guys was rapping before 73. You know, you had DJs like Grandmaster Flowers, Pete DJ Jones, DJ Plummer, Disco King Mario that was DJing before Cool Herc. You know what I'm saying? but in 1973, Herc took all these elements. MCing is only one element. Right, right. DJing is only one element. Right. In 1973, Herc took all these elements.

MCing. Graffiti. DJing. Graffiti. B-Boys, because he had the nigga twins, Dancing Doug and them, you know. You were talking had the nigga twins dancing Doug in them you know you were talking about

the nigga twins the other day yeah I was trying to tell Peter Rosenberg can you pronounce their name Peter Rosenberg

he's like no well but yeah you know Herc took all of these elements and combined them into one and that's what

hip hop is hip hop is not just emceeing hip hop is not just DJing hip-hop is all these elements and herc is the one that combined these he is the one he he's thanos right he got all the infinity stone you understand me so yeah i give her credit for inventing hip-hop in 1973 and that's it cedric huh what is it in the bronx right in the building right

yeah so we can have yeah and his sister has something to do with it too right I said Cedric. Huh? In the Bronx, right? What is it? Yeah, Cedric Ave. And his sister has something to do with it too, right? I believe she's the one who threw the party. Right, right, right. But I mean, as far as combining the elements, you know, to create what we call hip-hop, I credit Herc for that. Right. That was the culmination of it, and that sparks from there.

Yeah. I mean, you know, there's people that can debate me and I can respect that because I was only five years old in 73. But I mean, basing it on what was done, because you know, like Hollywood and

Eddie Chiba, their parties was for adults. You couldn't break dance in their parties. And they couldn't pass the mic because they're paid DJs. It's not their party. They're getting paid like 1,500 two stacks to DJ. So that's it. They're doing a job.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Hurt created an atmosphere where other MCs can get on the mic. B-Boys can breakdance without getting kicked out of the club for kicking people in their shin and shit like that. You know what I'm saying? Sorry to cut you off, but I was having a conversation and certain people were saying

that DJ Hollywood wasn't considered hip-hop. I don't understand that. What do they mean? Because he was considered a disco DJ? Yeah, they were saying that, but I mean,

at the same time, you got to understand the word hip-hop was invented like when? Like 77? Right, they weren't calling it hip-hop. I was born in 77, yeah. You know, so I mean,

it wasn't even called hip-hop in 73. I mean, you know, I mean, I think that's just a way to just, you know, really hate on wood. Right. Hate on Hollywood, you know, but I mean, still in all, though, it's like, he was the first MC. First MC. I mean, when I say MC, I'm not talking about, you know, what Last Poets and Gil Scott Heron did. Right, right. I call that spoken word.

Okay. Do you agree with me? What's my man? that spoken word. Okay. Do you agree with me? What's my man? Do you agree with me? When I say Gil Scott Heron, Last Poets, what they did is spoken word. Okay. Which is always building upon each other.

It's spoken word. What's Kool Herc Man, LaRocque? Give me a second. What Pigmeat Marham did, here comes the judge. Right. Now, that's what I would consider rapping. Right.

But that's in the studio over a band. See what I'm saying? What Hollywood was doing was rhyming over a breakbeat. You know what I'm saying? And that's what we do in hip-hop. Right. And that's considered emceeing. Yeah.

Okay. Well, I mean, but also like what Cochlear Rock was doing. Yeah, yeah. That's just doing the announcing stuff, you know, such and such and such. That's like big dedicated in the building. Yeah, yeah, yeah. such and such. That's like Big Daddy K's in the building. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. That's emceeing as well.

Okay. But I'm talking about rhyming. What I'm talking about right now with Hollywood, I'm just talking about rhyming. I don't want to go sexing with my honey bun. Well, his first rhyme was actually a rhyme that he bit from Isaac Hayes' song, Good Love. Oh, shit. Yeah. And from the Black Moses album in 1971.

How did this go? It's Bonafide. I know the punchline was, it's not how good I do it, baby, it's how I do it good. Right, right, right. Bonafide, qualified, knock on wood. It's not how good I do it, baby,

it's how I do it good. Yeah, that's from Isaac Hayes' song. That's the first thing that he said over the mic in 1971 Was that really one of your highlights Of seeing Snoop bring out Hollywood? Yeah, I was honestly Because it's like, I feel like Hollywood Never gets the credit that he deserves And as we celebrate 50 years of hip-hop

We got to acknowledge Kool Herc We got to acknowledge Coke La Rock. We got to acknowledge DJ Hollywood, Eddie Chiba. We got to acknowledge the Disco Twins from Queens. We really need to, we got to acknowledge Sha Rock, Funky Four, the Cold Crush Brothers, and most definitely, Melly Mel, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

Because I think Melly, yeah. Hey, hold up, and I think we all have to understand that there's probably a lot of people that we don't even know about that were a big part of the creation of hip-hop. Well, it's like, I always refer to, when I talk about Hollywood and Melly Mel, I call Hollywood Ray Charles and I call Melly Mel Sam Cooke. You know, because I think that what Hollywood created, Mel perfected. Wow.

From 1977 all the way up till around like 2013 when the drill music and all that stuff started coming in. I think anybody that emceed was following Melly Mel Blueprint. Wow. He was the first lyricist. And he's the one responsible for making the MC important. Thank you. Because, you know, when hip-hop began with Herc, it was about the DJ.

Right, right, right. You know, it was about Herc, not the Herculoids. It was about Flash, not the three MCs. Wow. You know, it was always about the DJ. That was the most important person. Until Melly Mel Started spitting real lyrics That made people say

Yo what the hell did he just say Hold on Yo he just And that's when the MC Became important He's the one That built the platform That's created for us

Cause if you look at Eric B and Rakim Eric B name comes first Yeah That was the thing back then DJ Jazzy Jeff And Fresh Prince Wow

Damn Let's make some noise for that Go get it That's real good Yeah, that was the thing back then. DJ Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince. Wow, damn. Let's make some noise for that. Okay. So, the verses. How did you like doing the verses as a person who's, you know, you've actually survived it? It's like so many people. No, I love doing it. Like that was my dream come true.

Really? Yeah, man. I mean, you know, like, um, back when,

um, uh, when KRS came out with the bridge is over. Right. Oh yeah. The way he timed it, the way he timed it with down by law, I'm like, this is a battle MC.

He's a battle MC that knows the art of combat. I would love to go up against him. But that was my dude, though. You know what I'm saying? I mean, Karris won. Him and Miss Melody helped me move out of my parents' crib. You know, like Chris was my dude. But I always

would think, immediately when I heard that you were battling Chris, I immediately thought, what happened with Kane and Rakim? I mean, obviously, you and Chris lived up to his expectations, did everything, but everyone was kind of leaning towards

the Kane and Rakim. Has that been haunting you, like, your whole, like, legacy, your whole career? I mean, people always wanted us to battle. Yeah, you and Rak, right? I mean, that's how this whole thing came into fruition.

Swiss called and said, I need you and Rak to do a versus. Wow. And I said Well look Talk to the other guy Right If you can make it happen

I'm in Call him the other guy If Well I mean You know I mean I don't mean In a disrespectful way I don't mean

In a disrespectful way I said talk to the other guy And see if you can make it happen. Right. But if you can't, you want Chris. Would you entertain me and KRS? Oh, this was your idea. And he said, yeah. Whoa. So

he went through it and tried to make it happen and, you know, couldn't lock it down. And then he, you know, he was like, yeah Yeah I don't think I'm like Okay so then What about me and KRS

Wow And then Swizz says What about You and LL And I said You know Versus is really Song for song

Not You know Battling rhymes It's song for song So LL mopped The goddamn floor with me Like His catalog is too big

You know But for the sake of hip hop That's crazy for you to say Yeah mopped the goddamn floor with me. Like, his catalog is too big, you know? But for the sake of hip-hop. That's crazy for you to say. Yeah, I was like, for the sake of hip-hop, fuck it, I'll do it. But, I mean, he going to mop the floor with me. This dude, you know, his longevity is crazy. You know, his albums, you know? I'm like, but I'll do it.

Then Swizz says, okay, but do you think the people want to see you and LL or you and Rakim? I said, me and Rakim? Without a doubt. Right. He's like, and that's what I'm talking about, Kane. All right. So I'm like, all right. So we left it alone, and then we entertained it with Trilla,

because this was before they had merged. Yeah, that's right. And Charlie Mack was trying to put that together. Big old Charlie Mack. Yeah. Shout out to Mack. He couldn't make it happen. With you and Rak? Yeah, with me and Rak. He tried to make it happen Matt He couldn't make it happen With you and Rob Yeah with me and Rob

He tried to make it happen He couldn't make it happen either And then Here's the funniest thing They called me and said That it's locked down Oh shit That you and Rob's locked down

That me and Rob gonna do it Right It was supposed to have been The night that Barrington Levy and Supercat did it Okay That's the night we were supposed to do it okay they called me and said it's locked down right and i said um okay they said but ross using

jazzy jeff so we want you to use um kid capri okay so i called kid capri and said yo they want you to do this versus thing capri said um i don't't want to, you know, you my man, Rob my man. I'd rather stay neutral. So I was like, I can respect that. I called Charlie Mack back. I was like, yeah, Kid Capri said he'll do it. He's in. Because look, I mean,

I knew this shit wasn't going to happen. You know what I'm saying? I knew it wasn't going to happen. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's in. And then they called me the next day and said, yeah, now we can't make the thing without Kim happen. You still down to do it with KRS? I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. They was like, okay, then it'll be you and KRS on that day.

And I was like, well, I can't do it this weekend coming up because I'm laying in bed with COVID right now. Wow. Yeah. I'm like, so they switched it to the following weekend and they got Baron Tlaib to do it that weekend because I was sick. Wow. Yeah.

If Biz would have been alive for that versus, which song you would have brung him out as a surprise guest? Oh, Just Rhyme With Biz. Just Rhyme With Biz. Okay. Yeah, but I mean, I know that he would have wanted to at least do The Hook or Just A Friend, you know. Oh, yeah, I was thinking Pickin' Boogers. Nah, hook of Just a Friend. You know. Oh, yeah.

I was thinking Pickin' Boogers. Nah, nah. Just a Friend is... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he would have had the whole crowd singing. Yeah, that would have been wild. And you wrote Just a Friend, too? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I didn't do Just a Friend. Did you get to watch The Dark? I did not get to watch The Dark, bro. He's in it. He's dope. All right. Did you see, because... Like, Biz Mark was one of these people that I would think would be around hip-hop forever.

Did you see, like, the demise or the breakdown of Biz or no? No. Yeah, I didn't see it. What point? It's like Biz had lost a lot of weight from a diet. Right. And he was looking good. Right. Feeling good, looking energetic, you know.

But from my understanding, because of him being so in shape, he wasn't taking his diabetes medicine. Oh, wow. You know, yeah. Yeah, man, God bless, man. This diabetes thing is running,ant in our neighborhood, man. Yeah, man. You know what I mean?

I'm drinking motherfucking Ghostface Killer Coffee. What is this called? Killer Coffee. Killer Coffee. We drinking Ghostface. It's in a Starbucks cup because I don't have no cups in my crib. So I just did that. You know what I mean?

Killer Goddamn Coffee. Okay. What was the track? I watched the documentary, the biz one. What was the track that he asked you to write and you said no at first and then after that you learned your lesson? Just a Friend. It was Just a Friend you learned your lesson? Just a Friend. It was Just a Friend?

Yeah, yeah, Just a Friend. Wait, wait, wait. I'm telling you guys why you just watched it. Okay, okay, okay. So how does this happen? Describe this session. Y'all are,

Marley Moore's there? Oh, no. Huh? Is Marley Moore on this session? No, no, no. This had nothing to do with me. No, he just asked him. He just went to him.

Well, it wasn't biz that asked me. It was actually Cool V that asked him. He just went to him. Well, it wasn't Biz that asked me. It was actually Cool V that asked me. And me and Biz was beefing with each other at the time. Wow. It doesn't say that in the documentary, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was mad at him.

It seemed like he got mad that you didn't do it. That's what it seemed like in the doc. Absolutely. Absolutely. But, I mean, honestly honestly it was for me being mad upset with him um because we had like um there was a lawsuit going on and biz dropped out of it and i was upset about that right so when v asked me to write it i was like nah but damn i wish i would have though that was like his biggest record right oh yeah oh yeah bro and nobody believed that

first when he was talking about the record, how it was going to be. He was going to sing on it. You know, the craziest thing is the day that Biz found the beat is the same day that he gave me the beat for Ain't No Half Steppin'. I went to Cool V Crib and...

Set up Ain't No Half Steppin'. Set up Cool V as well. Set up Ain't No Half Steppin'. Yeah, salute to Cool V. Yeah, I went to Cool V crib And Biz had a bag of records there So I'm going I'm like what's this

He's like some records Biz bought I'm going through them Playing them Then I heard the emotions Blind Alley I'm like oh this is sick So V looped it up in the mixer You know sampling the mixer

He looped it up there And I start writing to it But it's Biz Right Next thing you know Biz calls the crib It's Ain't No Half Steppin' I'm writing to Ain't No it's Biz. Right. Next thing you know, Biz calls the crib. This ain't no half-stepper. I'm writing

to ain't no half-stepper. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I was writing the rhymes. I can't remember, but I'm writing to it. Then Biz called the crib. I found it.

I found it. I finally found it. What the fuck you talking about? And he was like, the beat. I got it. You know,

you got what I need. He found the Freddie Scott You Got What I Need song. And he was like, you know, like, yeah, I'm telling you this shit gonna go platinum. I guarantee you.

Right? And I'm like, so, well, since you're so happy about that, you probably don't really care about this Blind Alley record, right? Oh, because that was his record. Yeah, his record. Wow. Yeah, you probably don't care about this Blind Alley record, right? Oh, because that was his record. Yeah, his record.

Yeah, I was like, you probably don't care about this Blind Alley. He was like, you can have that shit. My man. Yeah. Play that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Holy moly guacamole, man. You a motherfucking legend. Oh, my God, my love. Oh, my God. Holy moly guacamole, man.

You a motherfucking legend. Oh, my brother. I ain't going to lie. I had so much fun going through your discography, man, going through. But let's talk about the documentary, man. This documentary, I love you getting your flowers, man. I love. Yeah, he sent me, he shared the clip.

Yes, I love you getting your flowers, man, because love... Yeah, he sent me, he shared the clip. Yes, I love you getting your flowers, man, because you're one of the smoothest people on earth. Let's make some noise. Smoothest nigga on earth. And you're always cool, calm, and collective, but, you know, hip-hop owes you. You know what I mean? We all owe you.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what you have brung to the game, like I said, even down from the flat tops to the three cups, my eyebrows are fucked up right now, Kane. You know what I'm saying? Because I was like this, you know what I'm saying? Did you know how influential you was?

Was this something that you thought out, or this was just you being exactly who you are? I was just being me, but I mean, you know, like, just looking around, seeing what was going on. I was like, wow. You know, OK. But I mean, I felt like it was a beautiful thing because it's like I wasn't influencing anybody to do nothing negative. Right.

You know, so. Right. And was Scoop really a barber? Yeah. Really? Yeah. How does this work? You told him you put your clippers down and start dancing? Yeah. How does this work? You told them you'll put your clippers down

and start dancing? Like, how does this work? Nah, there was a club called Latin Quarters. Latin Quarters? Yeah.

Not on 96th Street. That was the old school one. Nah, don't come on, 48th. 48th, yes. Yeah.

Okay. Like, you know, I would go there with beers and whatnot to hang out in the mid-80s. And school was

with this dance group called the IOU Dancers. And they would dance before the artists perform. They would do a dance routine before the artists come on stage to perform. And, you know, sometimes by the bar, me, Scoob, and Laze that manages MOP. Oh, okay. Yeah, he was with IOU as well. So three of us, we were by the bar just, you know, having drinks. And I was like, yeah, you yeah, Biz getting me a record deal.

When I come out, man, I'd love for you to dance for me. And then when I finally made a record, I went back to school and was like, yo, you ready? Wow. And yeah, that's how we made it happen. So Biz was technically on before y'all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, you watch this doc, we don't know this history.

Not too many people know how influential and how much Biz had to do with a lot of things. So how did you and Biz link up? There was this kid from Long Island that used to always tell me about this dude, Biz Markey. He knew him. From Wanda's? For some reason, I think he's from Wanda's. No, the dude was from Central Islip. Okay, okay.

He was from Central Islip. Dude named Wayne. Okay. He was dating my cousin. And he used to always tell me about Biz Markie. Okay. And finally one day he like, yo, my man Biz Markie, I was telling you about he and Albie Squirrel rap more right now.

Albie Squirrel more. He beatbox now. He was doing the beat for Numbers. Wow. I'm like, he over there right now? I'm like, all right, take me over there. Let me meet him. So we get in the mall.

We're walking up to him. I'm like, all right, so listen, I'm going to ask your man for a battle. And after I bust his ass, I don't want to hear about this motherfucker. You know? I'll be square mall. Yeah, I'll be square mall. So I asked Biz for a battle. We battled. And after the battle, he was like,

yo, you dope, man. You dope, man. He's like, yo, I be doing a lot of shows in like Harlem, Bronx, Long Island. You should get down with me, man. Like said, yo, I be doing a lot of shows in Harlem, Bronx, Long Island. You should get down with me, man. We can make some money, and I guarantee you, one day, I'm going to get you a record deal. Why? Because back then, a lot of people, we didn't have Twitter.

You know what I mean? They didn't have Twitter. So how did you hear about Biz back then? It was this dude, Wayne. Okay. Word of mouth. Word of mouth. He was always telling me about this dude, Biz Marquis. Who'd you say? This dude named Wayne from Central Island.

Okay, Wayne. He was always telling me about this dude, Biz Marquis. Right. I could have just battled somebody, tore him out the frame. Yo, but you got to hear my man Biz, though. Wow. I was sick of hearing about this dude, man. But then we finally got to hear my man Biz though. Wow. You know, I was sick of hearing about this dude, man, you know. Yeah.

But then, you know, we finally got to meet, we battled, and after the battle, we became friends. He asked me to get down with him and now I was doing something I never did

because, I mean, I would go to block parties and battle people on the mic. Right. And you were writing these rhymes. This wasn't coming off freestyle, was it?

No, I wasn't doing no off the dome. These was written freestyle. Okay. I was just off the, I mean, I don't do the, I don't really do the off the dome this was written freestyle I was just off the I don't do the I don't really do

the off the dome thing only like in battles like if I see some raggedy shit you got on then I you know I'll come up with something you know but um

everyone got on late everyone was like oh shit you already said but I mean but you know it was like really written freestyles

but um it was like we went at it and what not and you know he was like yo you dope and you know he wanted was like really, you know, written freestyles. But it was like, we went at it and whatnot. And, you know, he was like, yo, you dope. And, you know, he wanted me to get down with him. But now I'm doing something I've never done before. Because I had, you know, never performed.

I only battled. Now I'm on stage doing shows for these dudes, Mike and Dave, in Harlem, Bronx, Long Island. You know, he got me actually performing on stage. I never did nothing like that before. Damn. Damn, that's crazy, man. stage. I never did nothing like that before. Damn. Damn, that's crazy, man. Let's make some noise for this, man. And then, and I don't want to give the whole doc,

because I think people need to watch the documentary. You watch it, I'm assuming. Absolutely. You feel it's fully accurate, the way everything's depicted, right? Yeah, from what I saw, yeah. The part about you getting in with Marley, about coming, and then he didn't want to open the door for you. Yeah, what happened was Biz spent the night at my crib.

And then that morning we went to a record store on Ocean Avenue. Okay. And he bought the African Lafayette Center beat. He bought that. And he was like, yo, come ride with me into the city. I got to get to see a record by the Steve Miller Band. He was going to Rock and Soul. No, Downstairs Records, Downstairs.

He was going to Downstairs. And I'm like, yo, I got a test today, man. I can't skip school. So I went to school. When I took my test, I left like half day, I got a test today, man. I can't skip school. So I went to school. When I took my test, I left like half day and went straight to Marley Crib. When I got there... Queensbridge or no? No, no, no. This was in Astoria.

I wasn't down to Queensbridge days. You know, I wasn't down there. No, I'm just saying I wasn't down there before my time. Cut it out, man. But yeah, I went to Marley Cribb, and, you know, he, like, opened the door with the chain on. And I was like, you know, what's up? I'm like, you know, Kane, Biz's friend.

But I'd been there before. You know, but he was talking to me like he didn't know me. You know, and I'm like, you know, I was here. He's like, Biz ain't here. I was like, well, you know, I took the train all the way from Brooklyn. He told me to meet him because he told me nobody beats the Beards song. Beards ain't here, money. I don't know what to tell you.

I was like, all right, no doubt. I was like, well, here, these are the rhymes he's supposed to say today. Just give them to him. And he was like, you write Beards shit? I was like, I wrote that. He was like, all right, go. And I said a little bit of the nobody beats the Be wrote that. He was like, I had to go. And I said a little bit of the nobody beats the beers thing. He was like, you rhyme too?

I was like, yeah. He was like, let me hear something. Then I spit a rhyme. Then he took the chain off. I was like, yo, come in. You want to work on something? Yeah. Oh, shit.

Yeah. Oh, shit. That's amazing. Holy shit. Because at that time Marley was Like The go-to producer Correct?

Yeah Or he was getting to be that Like Marley Was not only the go-to Producer Marley Was the dude That reshaped hip-hop

In the mid to late 80s Because When hip-hop Became a music genre What was happening Under the Sylvia Robinson umbrella Was hip-hop became a music genre, what was happening under the Sylvia Robinson umbrella was hip-hop artists going in the studio recording with bands. Sylvia Robinson, that's the people at Sugar Hill Games. You should know this shit, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Sugar Hill, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I had to get back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was on point. Sylvia Robinson, yeah. She was taking like Flash and them Funky 4, Treacherous 3. They're going and recording With bands

Right They're not doing What Kool Herc Created Programming beats You know what I'm saying No no no Not programming

I mean they're not Doing it to a break beat Right right right You know They're rhyming To a band Right Then the Run DMC era comes

When That's when they start Doing the programming beats With Larry Smith Rick Rubin and them cats You know Davey DMX Right You know They they're using Linn drums, DMX drum machines, and keyboards, and synth sounds, you know, Marley is the one that, you know, took the SP and brought back what Herc was doing,

where you rhyming over the breakbeat, it's just a DJ not playing it, a producer sampling it, it's the actual, I never heard in this timeline you're playing it, a producer's sampling it. I never heard it in this timeline you're saying it. Yeah, it's the actual break beat that Kurt, Flash,

Dambada, and all these cats was cutting up. It's the actual break beat and Marley is sampling it. So you're doing exactly what hip hop was made for. You're doing exactly

what hip hop was made for. How it started. It was bringing back those breaks. Yeah, but now it's more on record. You're doing exactly what hip hop was made for. Okay, right. How it started, it was bringing back those breaks. And Marley is the dude that brought it back. So, you know, yeah,

he is definitely an innovator in this here culture. Wow. You know, because of what he did with sampling. Ah.

Yeah. Goddamn. Goddamn. So, was it back then, because like nowadays when people sample music, they actually, most of the time, a lot of the times, it's 100% that these publishers claim the rights. Was it like that back then when you were sampling this music? Was it... The first time I had a problem with it was the very, when I went to Molly Cribb that day. Uh-huh.

To the Nobody Beats the Biz. Nobody Beats the Biz. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day.

It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull, we'll take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make

our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella.

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He made a beat off of Staple Singers' I'll Take You There. And that's when I recorded the song I'll Take You There It's on my first album But

Fly Tide wanted to put it out And Prince owned the Staple Singers publishing And he wasn't digging hip hop then So he wouldn't clear it Wow Prince Prince Prince ain't clear shit

Well I mean in the beginning He changed his mind later on Before the chaps Before his ass was out Yeah He loosened up after that Yeah But I mean in all honesty

I'm glad Because I think that Had I Take You There Came out as a Kane debut I never would have been successful What you talking about I'll Be Square More On that record as well

No no no I'll Take You There Is talking about I'll be square more On that record as well No no no I'll take you there As talking about going Into an imaginary place Where everything is beautiful And innocent You know Come on girl

It's like you know You get a pass on that one Because that was an album cut But it should be Robinson Schiff You should know No we gonna be here All night

I remember I remember hearing Albee Square Mall. And there's a website right now that's dedicated to all memories of Albee Square Mall. And I remember me being from Queens. And there was some fly shit going on in Brooklyn. It was called Dental Gold. And it was the only place in like New York City that had it. Grills? Well,

y'all would call it grills in the South. Down South we call it grills, right. But it was frames, it was frames and they went to Alvy Square, you had to get it only at Alvy Square Mall

and it was Dental Gold. And what I'll try to tell you is it looked like it came from the dentist. Like this wasn't like caps. This was like, but it was so fly. But to get to Alvy Square Mall, you got to go through a goddamn danger zone, my dentist. Like, this wasn't like caps. This was like, but it was so fly. But to get to Alvy Squaremore,

you got to go through a goddamn danger zone, Mike. It was like, I'm like, it came to see what... Oh, yeah, yeah. Nah, shout out to Hawk, Dog, Big,

Slop, Miami, you know, Big Shop, Big Neal. Yeah, all them Brooklyn Grimeys. I heard you shot them out on the end of the record. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All them Brooklyn Grimeys,

daddy, you know, yeah, make you know Yeah Make you leave Make you leave them all naked man You go back home Sneakerless Coatless Right right All that shit

Your shit was crazy Like do you recognize Brooklyn still It's completely different It's completely different It's completely different Yeah Like um

I went back to my old block To show my son I have a 10 year old When he was Much younger I took him to my old block Right There's son. I have a 10-year-old. When he was much younger, I took him to my old block because there was a big mural of me on the wall there. And I was showing him, yeah, this is the building I was raised in.

Right there on the second floor right here. I was like, yeah, I used to come down here and do da-da-da. While I'm telling the story, white lady comes out the building with a little-ass dog and the dog runs up my leg. And I'm like like but this didn't

happen are you trying to scare him straight he's like dad this is not I mean it was just bugged you know I'm telling him how I grew up you know how hood it was and then all of a sudden yeah yeah yeah yeah so it's a lot different now right no, right, right. No, I mean, do you think it changed for the better? I think it changed for the better. I think that it changed for the better, but I think that a lot of the history was erased. You know? I think that a lot of history was erased. As far as hip-hop as well?

Well, I thought you were talking about the neighborhood. Yeah, period, yeah. I mean, does that involve hip-hop? I mean, you know, it's like I can't take him and say, this is the movie theater that I used to go in, and I have to tuck my pants in my socks because rats be running across the floor, and I don't want none to run up my pants leg. That's gone.

Right, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I can't say, you know, just to Roy Rogers, you know, where cats got stuck up at because you could rob him on Fulton Street and cut through and come out on Flatbush Avenue. Right, right. I can't show him none of that stuff.

Right, right. It's all gone. Like, all those memories is gone. Right, right. I'm sure in your neighborhood as well. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, all over, all over. But I just never thought,

you know what was shocking to me? I thought the last two barrels that they would actually fix up was Brooklyn and the Bronx. And then when, what was it, the Nets. As soon as the Nets kind of came, I believe it was the Barclays, right? As soon as it kind of came to the Barclays, I think that they put a whole fools around. And I was like, once they put a whole fool, there's white people coming. I was like, yeah, you know what I'm saying?

So I was just like, but I didn't think, but now, I kid you not, I went to Dumbo, to Soho House. And I kid you not, because it's coming right off

the Brooklyn Bridge. Yeah, I knew you were coming. You know, like coming from like, you know, the Manhattan side. Yeah. And I remember I used to go there

and like you used to know, like as soon as you got over that bridge, you were in Brooklyn. It's not Manhattan no more. And I remember I used to go there, and you used to know, as soon as you got over that bridge, you were in Brooklyn. It's not Manhattan no more. And now it's like, you go over there, and you're like, I'm still in Manhattan?

You're like, because it's like, you're like, am I still in Manhattan? Are they pulling a trick over me? Yeah, you look and see the little boats and shit. Yeah, it's crazy.

But I understood. And how about the community? Because I remember that was a big thing about being in Brooklyn. Like, it was a lot of community. And you think that's gone because of the Whole Foods? When you say community, what do you mean exactly? Like, you know, like the project people used to be there together. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, as opposed to, like, now, it's like. Nah, I think that's true. Because, I mean, just during the Rock the Bells thing. Because I had Rock the Bells and I had Lincoln Center, you know, all in New York. But, like, pretty much a week apart. So, I was like, well, I'm just going to stay in New York the whole time. And I got an Airbnb in Bushwick. Wow.

And when I arrived at the Airbnb, Bushwick made it known, like, nah, nigga, you still in the hood. Don't get it twisted. Was they Puerto Ricans? Uh-huh. Was they Puerto Ricans? Yeah. Yeah. The major lawyer of the Bushwick, Puerto Ricans.

Puerto Ricans. You know what I'm saying? Oh, man. Yo, I mean, I mean I mean hip hop man Did you ever like I know this is a cliche Type of question But do you ever think

That hip hop will make it this far Absolutely You knew this Absolutely Because you gotta You gotta understand I mean Like

I love psychedelic rock Right Like Jimi Hendrix Cream Janis Joplin I love that type of stuff You know

So as a rock fan to hear like you know like how it was about Chuck Berry doing the duck walk

across stage or Elvis Presley gyrating his hips how offensive that was to clean cut America and they said that you know

it's raunchy music it's not gonna last it's just a fad. And this is what they said about rock and roll. But it was so rebellious for the youth to, like, really show out. And, like, now you got Alan Freed taking it in gymnasiums because theaters don't want it. So he taking it in gymnasiums.

And the young cast is coming out, you know, by the thousands to pack a gymnasium just to hear rock and roll, right? You know, this is what's going on. Then all of a sudden, when the wars start, you got rock artists making anti-war songs. Wow. So they're using their voice, you know, to speak against war. Right.

Hip-hop was following the same thing. Right. You know what I'm saying? So when they said that it's just a fad, it ain't real music, I knew it was going to be just as big or even bigger than rock and roll. You know what's so beautiful

about what's going on right now? You see Yankee Stadium sold out. Mm-hmm. You see Nas and Wu-Tang sold out. You see 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes sold out. You see Rock the Bells sold out. You see 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes sold out. You see Rock the Bells sold out. You see all of these festivals

with these older people that sold out. The elder statesmen, rather. Generational artists. And I've been saying this for a long time. This is the reason why we invented

Drink Chance is because we wanted to give our elder statesmen, people that have been around seasons, their flowers. And then when you see this, it's like, damn.

I said this the other day. When you want someone to cook Thanksgiving dinner, you don't want that 18-year-old girl that you just met. You don't want that 22-year-old girl. She don't know how to smother the chicken. She don't know how to make the candy yams bounce to where they're supposed to be shaking. She don't know how to do the stuffing. She don't know how to do the stuffing. She don't know how to cook cornbread. You know how hard it is

to cook cornbread? You got to have experience. So when it comes to Thanksgiving dinner, you don't want that new young hot tamale. No, I agree. You want Nana! You want Nana! You want Papa helping her.

You understand? And that's what life is, you young whippersnappers. You be over here talking about the OG. No, motherfucker, we're seasoned. We're seasoned, and we're out here. Man, look at Kane looking like he ready to pimp right now. I love when Buster said that. He said, we got to look the part, man. And that's one thing about you, man.

You've been sharp since the 80s. You ain't never had a day off, man. Appreciate you, baby. Come on, God damn it. I will say this, though, man. When it comes to people like myself and even your era, I mean, I feel like we're cemented.

And we have a solid fan base that's going to love and respect us like, you know, Charlie Wilson fans, you know, Rhyno Isley fans. But we do need to connect with the youth so that they can gain stay power and they learn how to be artists i don't think that we should leave them alone or or look at it in the way of like haha i'm packing shows you're not yeah i think that we need to work with them you know what i'm saying and try to help them because it's like we're not gonna be here forever our music will but we're not yeah so when we're gone, what's going to be left? If they don't know what they're doing, then hip-hop can't evaporate. Hip-hop

can't evaporate, so we got to give them the jewels. We got to teach them and educate them and try to uplift them. And I think that that's something important for us to do as the older generation. To teach the youth like, yo, this is how you perform. Nah, you don't need the vocals playing. Do it to an instrumental.

You know what I'm saying? Don't just stand there in one spot. There's stage left and stage right. There's even front of the stage. Shake a motherfucker hand when he's looking at you. Stuff like that, you know? We have to give them game. You know, we need to do that because they are the future.

But they're not going to be the future much longer if they can't sell out shows or sell streams or whatever. And you got to make sure the history continues to be the future much longer if they can't sell out shows or sell streams or whatever. And you got to make sure the history continues to be told so it's not lost. I mean, a lot of them

know better, EFM, because you know why they know better? They wear Jordans. They don't wear Kyrie Eilish. I heard you say it, but that's not true. No, that is true.

That's not knowing history because you wear something. No, no, what I'm trying to say is when you sit down, they'll sit there and talk about a Michael Jordan game. You are wearing these Jordans because Jordan scored this amount. So if you

know that amount, why don't you know about when Biggie Smalls did this? Why don't you know about when A kid doesn't know who Kool Herc is. Right. That's the problem. But they're wearing the Jordans. That might not be their fault. It's our fault in a sense. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. There was a point in time like I didn't grow up on Kool Herc. I was too young. But there I agree with that There was a point in time Like I didn't grow up

On Kool Herc I was too young But there was the music That I was listening to That was telling me And I was like Hold up a second I need to know this

These people that I'm listening to They look up to this person But you being a DJ And you being loyal To the culture You went and you searched Kool Herc, correct? Absolutely

Yeah, so that's What we were trying to say Before the internet times I was literally Digging in the grave But that's the problem though You know what I'm saying Nobody searches anything no more.

Nobody studies nothing no more. They just Google shit, you know? Right, right. But we're not given reasons either. I feel like now, Hip Hop 50, like you said, the positive side is younger kids might be like, yo, this is wild. Look at these packed stadiums. What is this all about?

And they might start to gravitate to certain artists they wouldn't normally gravitate to and then learn about the history indirectly. Like a drink champs. They might learn indirectly by the entertainment of it. Say, oh, these people are wilding out. And then, oh, wait, I'm learning something now. Let me tell you something, man. The BET Awards, I was sitting in my seat. The recent one that just passed?

Yeah, the one that just passed. I was sitting in my seat patiently waiting to see all the young cats perform. I wanted to see what type of energy they bringing. And then especially since, you know, you have people like myself, MC Lyte, Redman, Uncle Luke. Yeah, Buster. You know, so, you know.

Well, I mean, Buster's still doing his thing. Yeah, yeah, of course. You know what I'm saying? He's still going. But, you know, you got all these, I mean, it's like for them to look at and see. Okay, okay. Right?

So I wanted to see what they were going to do on stage. And the Migos and Lola Brooke, they did not let me down. Wow. I thought that Lola and the Migos gave amazing performances. That's the type of shit I like to see. And it was the first time you've seen the Migos together in a long time. Yeah, yeah. Since the passing. gave amazing performances. Right. That's the type of shit I like to see. And it was the first time you've seen the Migos together in a long time.

Yeah, yeah. Since the passing. Yeah, exactly. But even with that being a factor, when it's time to get it on. They still got it on. Yeah.

They can fall like a motherfucker. Yeah, man. And it looked beautiful. And like to see Lola Brooke, like, you know, actually really spitting and then jumping back

And dancing with her Dancers and shit She was not playing with it Yeah yeah She went in She went in Like she was Don't play with it

Don't play with it Go ahead Lola Don't play with it Don't play with it Don't play with it Boy that's Brooklyn energy right She from Brooklyn right Yeah yeah yeah

Now hold that Yeah Yo Let me tell you something You can never take a Brooklyn dude out of being Brooklyn, man. Hell no. Hell no. We learned that with Special Ed the other day.

Yo, yo, listen. We had Special Ed. But let's talk about that for a second because Special gave us a different perspective on it. He was like that. He felt like that. I know we spoke about it earlier, but he felt like that the Hip Hop 50 is more for corporations. It's not really for us. And I disagree, but I let him vent.

Like you just said, you said earlier, he was like, as long as the artist is getting paid, and this is something that we want to do. I don't think that Yankee Stadium was commercialized. I think Yankee Stadium is still in the goddamn... It was. Because, I mean, here's how. Okay.

Molly It was. Here's how. Molly Mall, Cold Crush, all the pioneers, they went on like 12 noon. Yeah, I was thinking they should have been the headliners. No, no, no. Up there, though.

They should have fit them in in between. Oh, I kind of looked at the flyer wrong. When they were at the bottom, I was looking at it as if it was the top to the bottom. Like, you know, the pie... And it's like this here. I understand that they don't have hit records, and the ones that did have hit records

in the early 80s, a younger generation are not aware of that. I get that, but still in all, though, if we're really celebrating 50 years of hip hop, then honor and respect those that created the platform for it to get here. You know? Right.

I mean, you know, Russell Simmons, Tyrone Williams, Andre Harrell, they did a great job. You know, Jay-Z, Suge Knight, Puffy, so many others did a great job, you know what I'mge Knight Puffy So many others Did a great job You know what I'm saying As keeping it going And all that there But honor and respect

Those That helped create This platform Right You know Right Sugar Hill Gang Grandmaster Flash

And the Furious Five Cold Crush Brothers Make it where They can be seen That's why that meant So much to me For Snoop to bring out Hollywood Yeah That meant the world I believe that was Russell Simmons Pulling those strings too Yeah yeah yeah make it where they can be seen. That's why that meant so much to me for Snoop to bring out Hollywood.

That meant the world. I believe that was Russell Simmons pulling those strings too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Oh, man. And let me, so let me ask you why we're on this subject

and especially why we're in the South. A lot of people, like one of the first things that we heard, especially living in Miami, was Uncle Luke's voice. Uncle Luke was like, he felt like, I don't believe he said the South.

I believe he said Florida. He said Florida, but there's different regions, like the West I'm hearing it. Yeah, because now I'm seeing Jermaine Dupri saying the same thing. And it bugged me out a little bit because I seen Jermaine Dupri

happy backstage. Like he was back there. He was filming himself. And then when he went back home to Atlanta, he's basically like, ah, you know, that was a New York thing. And New York doesn't really recognize Atlanta. That's what Jermaine Dupri said.

And then Luke pretty much said the same thing. He identified it with Florida, correct? When you hear things like that, what do you think? What does come? Don't identify the South. There wasn't enough representation of the whole country in terms of, well, like, different people repping their regions. Yeah, I mean, it probably wasn't. I mean, there's too many goddamn artists, man. You

know, for one night, you know, I mean, there's too many artists, man. I mean, there probably wasn't. But, I mean, to me, that's only reason enough to do a Hip Hop 50th in Atlanta. In Atlanta. Right. You know? In the South, in the West, right. Yeah, you get Outkast together, you know, the Brat. Yeah. You know, even bring out, what's my man's name?

I think he was like the first Southern, was it Shai D? MC Shai D. Yeah, Shai D. Yeah, yeah. Uncle Lou called him. Bring them all out. CeeLo Green, Goody Mob, you know? Yeah, Poison Crew, Gucci Crew, yeah, all that.

Yeah, bring them out. Trick Daddy, Trina. Right. Bring them all out, you know? Because Trina was on the show. Yeah. And so was Flo Rida and T.I. Flo Rida was on it?

Yeah, I seen Public Enemy bring out Flo Rida and T.I. Flo Rida was on it? Yeah, I seen Public Enemy bring out Flo Rida. Really? Yeah, it was something. I don't know if it was Yankee Stadium, but he was there during that 50-hour week, yeah. See, with what emceeing became, thanks to Melly Mel, was a way of ghetto expression. Right? And there's more ghettos than New York. Wow, that's weird.

You know, when we heard Straight Outta Compton and what NWA was talking about, you know, we got an experience of what the streets was like in L.A. Vivid, right. You know?

When the ghetto Boys came out, we had a chance to experience what the streets was like. In Houston. In, what do you call that? Is it Southwest? Fifth Ward. In the wards, right.

In the wards, though. Yeah, in the field, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like the region. Is that what it says? It's Houston. Would that be considered Southwest? No, this is South.

This is South. They still consider it South. Okay. But yeah, you got to experience that be considered Southwest? No, this is South. This is South. They still consider this South. Okay. But yeah, you got to experience that, you know? I mean, even with Eminem. Right. Because not only was- It was on your documentary as well.

Oh, yeah. Yes. Not only is that Detroit hood, but it's not our hood. Right. Oh, the eight mile, yeah. No, he talking trailer park shit. Yeah, yeah, that's hard. That's hard, yeah.

You know what I'm saying? So you get to hear about a white hood. You know what I'm saying? I mean, other than Roseanne, I don't know nothing about no trailer park stuff. That's the most I've, you know what I'm saying? Eminem gave us like what it was like

in his hood growing up. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, the way what ghetto expression can be, man, is beautiful, man. So I mean, it's out there in all types of different regions, man. So I mean, it don't have to just end at Yankee Stadium.

The year's still young. Shit, throw something in Atlanta. Throw something in Detroit. Throw something in L.A. That was one of the things that I noticed about your documentary, Sorry to Bounce Around, was that you had Eminem in the documentary for those that haven't seen the trailer yet. And, you know,

this is one of them unicorn guys, right? This is a guy like no one could get Eminem, right? Was it hard for you to reach Eminem or this was something that, you know,

because I know he's a real hip-hop fan, so. Em showed love when we reached out. He said, yeah. Wow. showed love when we reached out he said yeah wow when well no let me not say that

but he showed love and he made it where let me word it this way he made it where we wouldn't have no problems and you know it was okay with you know using his likeness and all that. Like, he showed love and showed up with a Big Daddy Kane shirt on to do the interview.

Wow. God damn it. And the craziest thing is he told me stuff about myself that I never even thought about. You know, because, I mean, you as an emcee, you writing. Yes. But it's like you're not sitting there thinking, like, you know, I got to, you as an MC, you writing. Yes. But it's like, you're not sitting there thinking like, you know,

I got to add something that does this. I got to add something. You're just writing what comes to mind. Right, right. So that's what I'm doing. And he pointed out

stuff that I did and I'm sitting there listening and talking and the whole time looking at it, but in my mind, I'm like, for real,

I did that? Oh, shit. Now I'm sitting there and then like, you know, when we finished, I had shit. Now I'm sitting there, and then when we finished, I had to go back and listen to records from the mid-80s, early 80s. Now, there had to have been someone that did this before me. Like, damn.

I never thought about that. Yeah, he said some deep stuff, man. He said some real deep stuff. Yeah, he's a student of the game, for sure. Nah, I love that fact. I love the fact that when it comes to the OGs, like he always, you know what I mean? I mean, didn't he accept the award?

And he listed off. Yeah. Mad people, almost everybody. But him and Melly Mel went at it recently. Like, you can't call Melly Mel and say, relax. Me and Mel,

me and Mel actually did talk. See, the thing that a lot of people don't understand is, like, I have a perspective on hip-hop because of the way I understood it. First time I heard hip-hop was 77. I have a perspective, you know, from what I learned from that point. Whenever it was that you heard it, whenever it was that you heard it, there's perspectives that we all have. Melly Mel has a perspective from the origin.

Okay. And a lot of those cats feel that when it went to record, hip-hop was ruined at that point. The purest form of hip-hop was ruined as that point. The purest form of hip-hop was ruined as soon as it went to record, when it became an official music genre. Right.

When it became a business? Yeah. Okay. I can see that. With Sugarhill Gang, I would assume that was the first time they felt that way. It's possible.

But I mean, I would assume maybe a year or so later, because it's like now you're seeing the effects. You're seeing what's happening to what y'all created and what y'all been doing. Now it's going a different direction in how it's being driven. So it's like you have to understand his bitterness. Right. You know, because it's not about hate.

It's about, you know, what happened to his baby. Right. Right. You can't dismiss that. You know, Herc has that as well. You know, what happened to his baby. Right. Right, you can't dismiss that. You know, Herc has that as well. You know, there's a lot of them. You know, so it's what happened to their baby. Right. You know, so, I mean, it's like, I respect their anger,

but at the same time, you know, I try to, you know, in a diplomatic way, just build with the brother and say, listen, man, it ain't worth, you know, just, you know. Yeah, because at one point, it felt like Melly Mel had a problem with everybody. Oh, he does. Mel cursed my ass out one night. Mel's jumped up over me, kicked the fucking ottoman.

It was like, motherfucker, you wasn't there. You was a baby when this shit started. You wasn't there. Wait, what was he talking about? He got pissed at me What was this about? I ain't gonna bring it up, man I ain't gonna bring it up So it's not just a couple of us

It's everyone, Mel Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah So if you're Eminem, relax If you're Eminem, be like, all right, cool, Mel Yeah, I mean, that's just Mel That's just Mel, man I mean, but I mean, it be like, all right, cool, man. Yeah, I mean, that's just Mel. That's just Mel, man. I mean, but I mean,

it's like the bottom line is this, man. You know, whether he right or wrong, I feel like myself, you, Eminem, and so many others wouldn't have been here or wouldn't have been gifted at this if it wasn't for Mel.

Right. Let's make some noise. Let me ask you, in the same vein of all this, what do you think, what's your perspective on the state of emceeing today? I think that there are a lot of dope emcees out there.

You just have to find them. Right. I think that there's a lot of dope emcees out there you just have to find them right you know i think that there's a lot of dope emcees out there you just have to find them right now because of what radio does right now because of what radio does they focus on a certain kind of music right you know and because of that that's what's put to the forefront. And that's all you think about. So you're not thinking about, you know, who's lyrical. And then the other thing, and I'm going to say this to all my lyrical emcees, with the exception

of Lady London, she's not included. Here's why. As a lyrical MC, I think that it's very important for you to look the part as well. Look fly so that people, if they're not paying attention to what they say, what you say, they're paying attention

to how you look. Right, the package. And then they gravitate to the lyrics, you know? But there are a lot of lyrical MCs. You just have to find them. But at this point in time, what's more important really is like, you know, a catchy tune. Right.

And I'll add, you said the look, but also the production. Because you'll have an incredible lyrically, you know, lyrical MC that doesn't pick good production to put those lyrics to. Well, it's not he don't pick good production. It's that he doesn't pick commercial production. Most lyrical MCs like Boom Bap. Right. And that's not what's really selling or what's playing on the radio. But you do have lyrical MCs that rhyme over

that modern style production like J. Cole. J. Cole got him in a documentary as well. Yeah, he kills it. And Kendrick. J. Cole is my favorite MC of this era. Shout out to Conway the Machine. I love him to death. Benny the Butcher.

Carrying the flag. But J. Cole? J. Benny the Butcher. Carrying the flag. Jay Cole? Jay Cole, oh man. He's a problem. To me, Cole and Kendrick, they're tied to me. I love Kendrick, but you got to understand, Cole said,

no Cosby shit, but if they sleeping on me, fuck them. Oh shit, I didn't even catch that I didn't even catch that No Cosby shit, but if they sleeping on me, fuck them No Cosby shit, but if they sleeping on me, fuck them There's a lot of layers to that little piece I'll leave that right there Where did he say that at?

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast.

From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.

Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West.

I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and bestselling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Take me a minute. Whenever y'all want to come back to this conversation. That's real. That's real. Yeah. No, fuck that. No, no, no. For J. Cole.

Yeah. Now, while we're on this subject matter, as I said, I'm speaking about everyone except Lady London. The reason why I say that is because Lady London, she does look the part. She stay fly from head to toe. You know what I'm saying? And her bars are ridiculous. Ridiculous. Right.

You know? And not only that, she don't be half naked. Not saying anything negative about the women that do. I'm just saying that, you know, she don't rely on that. She rely on her beauty and her lyrics. Mainly her lyrics. Yeah.

You know? And Lady London, she said, I go on a date just for a date just. I'll let that sit there for a while. Catch up.

Take your time. Yeah, the watch. Take your time. Take your time. Yeah, the watch. Take your time. Take your time. For Lady London. Yeah. Oh, man. That was so dope.

And whoever didn't get that, somebody please explain it to them. I guarantee you, look, he fell out of the little... Matter of fact, let me explain for those that don't understand. I go on a date just for a date just. Date just is a Rolex. A Rolex, yes.

That's a kind of Rolex. Yes. So she's saying, yeah, I go on a date just for a dude to buy me a Rolex. Come on, God damn. Come on, Goddamn. Come on, Goddamn.

Don't play with that girl. Don't play with that girl, Goddamn. Holy moly, fucking holy. Quick time of slide? Let's do it. What do you want? Okay, okay, okay, okay. Oh, yeah, let me go. Yeah, yeah.

Well, Kane, Big Daddy Kane, my brother, let me just tell you something. Our show is about giving people their flowers. We always wanted to have this show to, you know, to salute our OGs, the people that made this life possible for us to live the life that we live. And we want to give you face-to-face your flowers. To your face.

It's like a Grammy because it comes from your own people. And it's an honor that we have you back. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I like that. And by the way, he always drinks some exclusive shit. Oh, yeah, yeah. He always drinks some exclusive shit.

Let me just tell you something, young whippersnappers. He is an OG to the purest. I'm talking about Everything about him Is motherfucking Impeccable God damn Let's go

Come on Alright we're going to You want to explain to them Quick time of slime Yeah We're going to give you Two choices If you pick one

Nobody's drinking This is a drinking game By the way Okay So if you pick one Nobody's drinking If you say both Or neither

We all drink Okay I mean he can do whatever he wants yeah yeah yeah yeah that's okay you could do it now now what what's um the answer if someone has if i'm saying we're gonna give you two choices all right if you pick one that's it we just go on to the next one okay if you say both like you say well that i'm picking both or i'm picking neither of them Then we're drinking Okay

Cool Alright No no no The wine Yeah yeah Let's keep it with the wine That's right Okay

Tupac or DMX In what way It's whatever The criteria in your mind And you can explain Or you don't have to explain? Yeah, it's all up to you. If we're talking artists, Tupac.

If we're talking lyricists, X. That sounds like a drink to me. Sounds like both. Sounds like both, yeah. I think we're going to have a lot of folks in here. Okay. All right. I like this one.

Primo or Lars Pro? I would have to say... I would have to say... I would have to say Primo. Okay. I would have to say Primo. Okay. I would have to say Primo. Okay. Kid Capri or DJ Scratch?

You ain't putting me in that shit. That was a good one. That was a good one. No, I'll say it like this here. Rock a party, Kid Capri. Okay. DJ Battle, Scratch. That sounds like a drink to me.

That sounds like a drink to me. Because that was the big debate that night at the Versus, right? Yeah. I kind of take blame for that, man. Okay, let's explain. I can see your face. Your face just changed. Nah, because

like when I told you earlier. Well, Rakim. Capri said he's going to bow out of itim He said he didn't want to do it Okay But then when When they got KRS to do it He got on some broad shit He agreed to do it with KRS He got on some broad shit

So then when Charlie Mack said Yo we want you to use DJ Scratch Okay I said okay fine And then I called Scratch And I was like yo Let's get on some bullshit Tear his ass up

I was like tear Tear his ass up Tear his ass up You know But I didn't know that You know They had a little something Going on Yeah I didn't know either And you know

When Scratch Did the sucker DJ I was like nah Hold on Cause it's like you know Yeah I came with bars Ready Right And I I spit some Some simple shit I was like nah I call nah Cause it's like you know Yeah I came with bars Right Ready Right

And I I spit some Some simple shit You know Hoping that Chris was gonna You know Yeah bite off of it Yeah

You'll come But he didn't But I mean Even with what I had Locked and loaded I wasn't gonna call him No sucker MC Right

Nothing degrading You know what I'm saying That's my brother It's like I would've spit some battle rhymes But I'm, nothing degrading. You know what I'm saying? That's my brother. It's like, I would have spent some battle rounds, but I'm not going to. I love him. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, I love Kid Capri,

so I don't want you to call him a sucker DJ. A gentleman's challenge. A gentleman's fight. Yeah, I mean, I didn't take it that way. As me watching it, as me watching it, I really did take it as a DJ type of thing. But when Capri didn't indulge back, that's when I was like, oh, maybe this wasn't right.

Doc, I mean, it was like, you know, it was like, at that moment, when Scratch, I said, you know what, I forgot who the fuck I was talking to, man. I was like, I'm like, this is what the shit Scratch was waiting for. He was going, this was just me

being upset with Capri. You know, I'm like, oh, so now you can do it. Okay, Scratch, man, scratch this. This was just me being upset with Capri. You know, like, oh, so now you can do it. Okay, scratch your T.A.R.S. ass up, man. You know, but I forgot who I was dealing with. That was my fault, man. Pooch, I'm sorry, brother. I'm sorry, brother. Okay.

KRS-One or Rakim? Hmm. Once again, it's, it depends. It's like, we're going to get a lot of it depends. On a song, Rakim. In a battle, KRS. Okay. Sounds like both. It sounds like both.

Yeah, take it. Yeah, yeah. Why are you all in our business? I was trying to avoid this thing. I'll get the next one. Good one, by the way. All right. Guru or Big L?

Rest in peace to both. I don't want to. I mean, these brothers, they're not here no more. I don't want to do that one. Yes, we're going to drink for that. So we're drinking, so let's hope. Yeah, that sounds like both. You want the next one too?

Because didn't Mr. C bring Biggie to your crib? No, no, no. Okay. Mr. C let me hear him. Oh, okay. He did a thing in his house with Biggie Ryman over the Blind Alley beat that I used for Ain't No Hasteppin'. Okay. And he let me hear it.

Oh, wow. Yeah, like, C used to be like, yo, you don't hear it? I'm like, because C thought that we sounded similar. And I'm like, I don't. Yeah, I'm like, I don't hear it. I don't hear it. I can see Kane in big. I can see it.

I didn't see it, though. Oh, I could. No, no, no. But eventually I did. Okay. Like, I think with Party and Bull't hear it. I don't hear it. I can see Kane in big. I can see it. I didn't see it, though. Oh, I could. No, no, no. But eventually I did. Okay. Like, I think with Party and Bullshit came out. Party and Bullshit. And I was like.

Are you talking about prior to that? No, I'm saying even then. I was still telling C, I don't see it. Wow. Then the One More Chance remix came out. And I called C. Yeah, I see it. I see it.

Yeah, I see it. I'm like, yo, he killed that shit. Okay. Tribe Called Quest or De La Soul? I'll pour up. That's a tough one, man, because, you know, like, Mase is my dude, like my brother. But I probably listen to more, and then what you call it, Dave was such a dope MC too. Rest in peace.

Rest in peace. Yeah, Dave was such a dope MC. But I don't know, man, because I probably listen to more Tribe records. I probably listen to more Tribe records. And big up Dave and Tribe,

De La Soul, because they recently got their masters back. Is that something that you, you have your masters as well? I'm in the process now. Okay, yeah. That's what all the OGs are saying.

Okay, next one. DJ Hollywood or Cool Herc? I feel like you kind of already. Well, I mean, naturally I would have to pick Hollywood because I'm an MC. Right. Like I would expect the DJ would pick Herc. Right. I'm an MC, so I mean, you know, I feel like, you know, he birthed me. You know what I mean? Right. So I would have to pick Hollywood just Herc I'm an MC so I mean I feel like he birthed me

So I would have to pick Hollywood Just for that reason Next one Latifah or MC Lyke Queen Latifah Drink And we need both of them on drink chance We've been asking for years

Okay Molly Maul or P-Rock And we need both of them on Drink Champs, man. We've been asking for years. Yeah. Okay. Molly Maul or Pete Rock? I would have to go with Molly. Okay. For the simple fact that there would be no Pete Rock. Right. Primo, Large Professor, Just Blaze, none of them.

It wasn't for Marley right that's who you know brought that sample like I think Curtis Blow is the first person to use a sample but it's just

percussions from a Trouble Funk record the person that really made sampling the way of hip hop production

is Marley so I gotta go with Marley god damn it Latin Quarters or The Fever? Latin Quarters. I was too young for The Fever. Okay. Like, yeah, like right now, like Sal from The Fever.

Yeah. He'd be like, yo, man, I need you to do this here show for me, but I got like 10 grand. Come on, man, it's me, Salih Sal, okay? And it's me, Salih Sal. But y'all's fucking 12, man. I wasn't into The Fever. I don't owe you nothing, man. I'm fucking 12 years old, Kane. It's me, Sally Sal. Y'all's fucking 12, man. I wasn't into Fever. I don't owe you nothing, man. I'm fucking 12 years old, Sal.

Come on, man. Don't you... But I love Sal, man. I love Sal, man. As a matter of fact, man, it's like, you know, if I'm correct, I believe that's the first

hip-hop club, right? Latin Quarter? No, the Fever. Oh, the Fever. Oh, I'm not sure on that. The Fever was like, what, 78, 77? Because Fever the fever. Oh, the fever. Oh, I'm not, I'm not sure on that. The fever was like what, 78, 77?

Cause fever's before Harlem world, right? Y'all don't know. None of us know. I was figuring it out. Yeah. If I'm right, then Sal,

you deserve this. Right, right, right, right, right. Okay. Sam Cooke or Ray Charles?

Sam Cooke. Um, you know, um, I think Ray Charles, you know, yeah, I think he's the first one to take gospel chords and sing love music over it. Right. But Sam Cooke perfected it. He put a much more sexier voice to it and perfected the way it was done. You know, yeah. Okay.

Okay. Run DMC or APMD? Yeah, you want to go? Laura Finesse or OC? Well, I would say Lord Finesse Um

I think that Lord Finesse is a Great lyricist man Great lyricist man And um And also, he's responsible for a lot of other people having careers. Absolutely.

D-I-T-C. Yeah. Flat top or Gumby? You fucking serious? You gotta have that for you. Those are these guys.

Go for it, man. I mean, as much as I love My man Bobby man Come on man who flat top rules Jimmy Hendrix Or Santana I love Santana man but I gotta go With Jimmy just for the simple fact of, like, you know, the blues stuff that he did, the way he would make his rock guitar talk on a blues song.

And he was self-taught, right? I don't know. That's what I think somebody told us here on Drink Champ. I think so. He taught himself. It was George Clinton that told us that? Yep.

Master Ace or Special A? Ace is juice crew, man. I know. There you go. That says it all. That says it all. That says it all.

Okay. I know he's good. Fat Joe or Rick Ross? It's like, I kind of want to lean towards Rick Ross, see the dark-skinned chubby dude. But, you know, Joe my dude, man. Joe my dude that's always showed me love, man. Joe my dude, man.

Okay. So we're going to let that one slide. Ice Cube or Scarface? That's a hard one there, man. That's a real hard one. And that's a good one yeah yeah yeah that actually would have been a great versus yeah yeah yeah that would have been a great versus that's that's that's a hard one i don't know i don't i don't know so it's both um because it's like you know scarface i think think, is the better storyteller. But, oh, man, I don't know, man.

That one, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, because Cube got some joints, man. Yeah, and he write movies. Well, that ain't got nothing to do with hip-hop. I'm just trying to help you out. Yeah, I mean Yeah I mean I don't know

Going back to NWA Cube It's just Yeah Cube man Like Like I remember When I heard Bitch is a bitch From that song alone

I was like This dude gonna be a problem Yeah You know Yeah So we saying both Yeah Yeah I guess

Let's keep it Lola Brooke Or Lady London Lady London? Lady London. Okay. Video Music Box or YOMTV? Matter of fact, come back. Ask me that question again.

Lola Brooke or Lady London? Lady London. Okay, okay. You're good. I mean, no, listen. Lola Brooke, I'm going to be honest with you. I really would love to link up with her and work with her. Right.

Because what I saw at the BET Awards, I'm a fan. Yeah. She goes all out. But Lady London, like, I would love to actually be in a studio with male artists when Lady London walk in. I got a funny feeling that I'm going to see something I've seen before. Me. in. I got a funny feeling that I'm going to see something I've seen before. Meaning? Back when I used to DJ for Shantae, I used to see Shantae come in dressing rooms and male

artists turn around to avoid smoke. Known, established male artists that had hit records would turn their back to avoid making eye contact with Roxanne Shantae. Scared to death of a little 16-year-old girl. Wow. Yeah.

We can't let it go unnoticed. He said when he used to DJ for Shante. Yes, I caught that. I caught that. I caught that. That was hard. Okay. Video music box or Yo! MTV raps?

Video music box. Video music box. Big up to Ralph McDaniels. Mobb Deep or M.O.P. I mean I love both But you know M.O.P. that's that Brooklyn shit

That's that Brooklyn shit It ain't nothing like Him you know Slapping on dance Screaming they fucking lungs out on a song, man. There they are! Ain't nothing like that, man. That energy is just something else.

We need M.O.P. on here, too. Scoop or Scrap? Those my brothers, man. Drink to that? Yeah, drink to that. You mean Scoob and Scrap? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What'd you say. You mean Scoob and Scrap? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What'd you say?

I said Scoob or Scrap. No, he said Scoob or Scrap. I said you mean Scoob and Scrap. That's right. I look at them as one, man. Put them both together. Yeah. Y'all do this because of my shirt, bro?

What? Oh, yeah. Self-destruction or all in the same gang? I mean, I'm going to say both, man, because they both served a beautiful cause. They both served a beautiful cause. It was a great movement, man. Take the next one. Yeah, yeah.

Michael or Prince? Um, it's like, as multi-talented as Prince was, I don't think that, you know, we're ever going to see another artist like Michael Jackson, man. So you're saying Mike will smoke Prince in the verses? In the verses? Yeah. Okay. Verses where? On stage? Yeah. In Kingston, Jamaica. No. I don't know why I thought of that. No.

Mike against Prince. In the verses? I mean, because you got to understand, Prince played numerous instruments. Prince's vocal range was ridiculous. You know? Ridiculous. Right.

You know? So, I mean, and he could dance, but he couldn't dance like Mike. He can't dance like Mike. But Mike is the better performer, though. Mike is the better performer. You know? So in averses, it's hard to say. Because if Prince is strategic, he could get the edge.

But if he's not, Michael tear him apart. But I mean, overall, just as like, it's like, I don't think, I think that Michael Jackson is the biggest artist ever. I don't think we're going to ever see another Michael Jackson. You met Michael Jackson? No. Prince? I had the opportunity, but it was just many people Crowded around And I just was like I'm good

Alright Prince yes I have met Prince Okay Where was y'all at? We was at Warner Brothers In Moe Austin office Okay

Yeah Was he purple? Was he purple? Nah I'm correct I think he had some white shit on Yeah I think he had some white shit on

But he was you know Sitting down At Moe Austin desk Right You know Yeah white shit on. Yeah, I think he had some white shit on. But he was, you know, sitting down at Mo Orson's desk. Right. You know, yeah. Say hi, Big Daddy K.

Nah, nah, he was like, what can I, I don't know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Nah,

he was like, you know, how may I help you out today? Like, he was like, acting like he was Mo Orson. He was playing around acting like he was Mo Orson.

And you're like, nigga, this is Prince. I know who you are. Yeah. Nah, I was like around Acting like he was more awesome Yeah And you're like Nigga this is Prince I know who you are Yeah Nah I was like I was like shocked You know

You know like Oh shit This is Prince Wow Remember Prince had a deep voice Yeah yeah yeah Really Yeah

That's the truth That's why I said You sound like Michael Jackson Oh I was playing around Nah Prince had a deep voice I was in my mind I thought he And Michael was the same

Nah nah Prince voice Imagine if we would've had Both of them still around to this day. I would have loved to have seen that. That would have been crazy. We did NWA? No. NWA or Public Enemy?

I'm not playing with y'all. I mean, this ain't my thing. You know, honestly, I don't, you know, I'm like uncomfortable with putting artists against each other. That's something I never really... It's not against each other. I know we playing. I know we playing. But I mean, that's just something I just ain't really into. I respect that.

This one, and then I'm going to get up out of here. Digital or analog? Analog. Analog, right? Yeah. I mean, it's so... The capabilities are endless with. Analog, right? Yeah. I mean, it's so, the capabilities are endless with digital.

Right, right. But that feel of analog, man. That warm feel, that hiss. I mean, just the tape alone create a hum noise that fills up the track. You know what I mean?

It's just felt thick. It's like it records the energy in the room. Yeah, you're right. So this last one. No, say the movie one. I think the movie one's fair for him. Alright, go ahead. You do it. New Jack City or Juice? That's interesting. Oh, man. Um, you know what? I think I might say, um, I think I might say juice. I think I might say juice. Um, I mean, my reason is because, um, uh because Juice felt real New York.

Right. You know, I didn't know any drug dealers that act like Nino in the 80s. Wow. Like all the drug dealers I knew in the 80s, they didn't act like my Wesley played the Nino character. Right, right. Yeah. And you got a song on the Juice soundtrack. That's an amazing song.

Yeah, I do. It's an amazing song. Thank you. Last one, and then we're going to go back to the interview. Loyalty or respect? Loyalty or respect. Can I get them both? Of course

That's the time We're going Drink a can of coffee Yeah I'm drinking a can of coffee God damn That's the time When we always say

We should say both You know what I mean? Because I think one goes hand to hand You think that? Absolutely So let me ask you Because This is something something I always

wanted to know. When I first, you know, came in and to knowledge with the 5% Nation, one of the things that they said was a stop-for-law, you cannot do, you cannot have, was Jell-O, right? The food Jell-O? Yes.

And if Vince Marks says, Daddy King, my mic, my mellow, get on the mic because you know you eat Jell-O? Yes. And then Biz Marks says, Daddy King, my mic, my mellow, get on the mic because, you know, you eat Jell-O. I always wanted to ask you. I always wanted to ask you, like, wait a minute. I always wanted to ask,

like, wait a minute. I mean, you know, nobody take Biz serious. I mean, he was just making something around with Mello. Right. That was the first fucking thing I ever seen him make around with Mello, you know? So no one ever said, hey, hey, hey, hey, y'all. Nah, nah.

It's because it had pork in it. It had pork. Nah, I, I, I. Through the coloring. Like, I, yeah. Through the coloring. Dude. Yeah, pork. No, I... Through the coloring. Like, I get it. Now, the guards was pissed at me about the Madonna book, but never about the Jell-O shit.

Oh, the Madonna book? Yeah. When you was finger popping. He said, yeah, immediately. Yo, you know what's crazy? That was a different time. That must have been a crazy time. But did you only receive backlash from the guards?

No, no, no. From everybody. Okay. From everybody, you know. Right. But I mean, yeah, but I mean, like, there was a lot of guards. Hey, yo, guard, man, we need to have a bill, man. I need to know the science behind that, man.

You know? But I mean, at that point in time, man, you know, those that really understand, you know, the culture of Islam, you know, you know that there are white Muslims. Right. You know? Dr. Umar does not approve. And they don't. He probably wouldn't. But they don't identify as white,

nor do the black ones identify as black. They all identify as Muslim. Right. You know, so, you know, with that understanding understood, I mean, you know, I'm not going to, you know, be against Madonna because or anybody because they're white. Yeah.

But it's true. Like once she went gang, she still remains. He'll drink to that. I'm crazy Oh man, yeah So I know we covered this the last time But that Naomi Campbell Photoshoot

What was that for? Calvin Klein? No, no, no, that was the Madonna book That was the Madonna, same thing Okay, you was outside,. You was outside, man. You was outside, man. I ain't going to lie, brother. Greatest picture. Yes.

Greatest picture. Yes. Yes. Because. Nah, I don't know. There's a cartoon. There's a cartoon where someone redid the photo with the characters from the cartoon. Right.

I don't know what cartoon it is, but that's what I was like, yeah, I'm like, I need that on a t-shirt. But it's a known cartoon, but they did it with the one in the water with me, Naomi, and Madonna. I was like, oh, I need that on a t-shirt. Right. Because, you know, like, again, you've paved the way for, like, you know, these big hit records, these big moments in hip-hop, right? Because I remember it seemed like there was nothing bigger than Big Daddy King.

Like, I remember, like, my whole childhood, like I said, my flat top wasn't correct. Like, I was, you know, I was trying to get My flat top Wasn't correct Like I was You know I was trying to get My flat top right I was trying to get And And then I remember

There was one point I believe it was like When I Get The Job Done Record came out And people was like Man We lost Kane Like Kane is

Into this Yeah it transcended hip hop Yeah Into this whole Another world Like There was like I believe they was Using commercial at the time.

Was that something that you received a backlash for? Like, I know you spoke about the... Absolutely, absolutely. Really? Oh, yeah, a whole lot of it, a whole lot of it. Was it the record or was it the video? I think the record. Okay.

But, I mean, there was several songs, you know. Okay. But let me ask you this um in hip-hop today right i'm ready um how many songs do you hear that sound commercial yes how many songs do you hear that have singing on them? Right. And how many songs do you hear on the radio that sound like boom bap? Not a lot. See, me as a student of hip hop,

one thing I've always understood is that hip-hop music, musically, has no origin. Grandmaster Kaz said it best. Hip-hop didn't invent anything. It reinvented everything. Musically, it has no origin because what Herc was doing was taking other people music and bringing the breakbeat part back. Playing that. Other people music.

And that's what rappers rhyme to. That's what B-Boys dance to. Right? Even the human beatbox. When they started out, they was doing beatboxing to break from records. There was other people's music. And those records were what? The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States.

Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first Black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor,

going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show

from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday,

May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Impeach the President by Royal C. Soul song, soul music. Not hip hop, soul music. Good Times by Chic. Disco.

James Brown. James Brown. Funk. Rocket in the Pocket by Serone, techno. Or electronic, or whichever one you want to use. Big Beat by Billy Squire, rock and roll. You see what I'm saying? Nautilus by Bob James, jazz.

So all of those elements always been a part of hip-hop. And that's all I was doing was incorporating elements that had already been a part of hip-hop. You know? Do you think that, because like you said, there's so many hooks. If you look at Ja Rule, there's so many things. Do you think that was the invention of people thinking that this is the way to go? Like, the commercial route? Matter of fact, let me rephrase that question.

Was that more of a record label thing or was that a cane thing when you were saying, let me go there? That was a cane thing when I was doing it. I wanted to explore different things and try to open the mind frame of my fan base, you know, to see a bigger picture. That's what I was really trying to do. Right. I just was a little too early with it. Right. You know?

Right. Had I waited until, like, 1994 and did it on Bad Boy Records, I would have been a bad motherfucker. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? No, I mean have been a bad motherfucker. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? I mean, Puff saw the vision. Puff, you know, I love and respect Puff for that. Clearly, he must have

told Big, like, don't know, go ahead. Kick all your gangster shit, but do it on this beat right here. You know what I'm saying? Yo saying That's what's the crazy thing About Notorious B.I.G. If you look at all of his lyrics Some shit's as hard as hell

But he Like you said Puff kind of like Put soft beats under it And you kind of like Don't see it Well I mean I'm not even going to call it

Soft beats because I mean Shit We used to lose These are great samples Hear me out We used to lose our mind In the club

When Juicy Fruit came on. Yeah. You can't call it a soft song because that shit used to bang in the club. Right. Juicy Fruit, you know? Right. Used to bang in the club. And your era, too, on the other side, you had Hammer pushing that envelope of going commercial and catching a lot of fleck as well but i mean he was a commercial artist but i mean i

don't see what i i honestly don't see what the problem is like i don't have a problem with hammer music i didn't have a problem with fresh prince music i mean because it was uh hip-hop from a commercial standpoint you know everything don't need to be thugged out. We got artists, you know, like, okay, for example, what if Will Smith would have put out some gangster stuff in the 80s and some

real live street dudes would have tried him? Right, right. It would have been summertime. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's like, you know, he did what was right for him. And the bars was right. Like, lyrically, he was spitting.

I thought it was dope. Right. It was commercial, but it was dope. And he was coming from a different perspective. I don't see what the problem was. You know, but I mean, you know, it's like, you know, people just love to find something wrong with everything. Right. Everything. How about Vanilla Ice?

How do you feel about him? Same thing with Vanilla Ice. I don't think that, you know, that the music was bad. You know what I'm saying? I don't have a problem with him making commercial hip-hop, you know. I think that some of the things that he said in interviews was bad. Okay. You know?

It's like, you know... He was from discrepancies where he was from. Yeah, all types of stuff. He invented the yup-yup and all this other stuff. And it was like, you know, just be this successful hip-hop artist, you know, this winning in the commercial market. Just be him, you know. I think that that would have worked so much better for him, you know.

It's just the backlash, I think, got the better of him. Because, I mean, you look at, like, Eminem. Right. He never tried to be black. Right. He never tried to be black. Right. He never tried to be black. And he talking hood shit, but it's his hood, Trailer Park. Right.

You know what I'm saying? But even though there was a lot of people that, you know, wanted to hate on him, you couldn't. Because he was himself. Yeah. Because there's nothing that's backing what you're saying. Right. Because he's not trying to be black.

In fact, he's employing a whole bunch of black people, you know, on the label and working for the label. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, you know, it's like he didn't go through what Vanilla Ice went through. Right. And he was lyrically respected through Underground. Oh yeah, well that played a heavy part too. I mean, he paid

his dues. Was he from New Jersey? Outsiders? Yeah, the Outsiders. Nah, being nice as fuck on the mic too played a heavy, a major part too. But it boils down to authenticity is what you're saying like I think that's

one of the pillars of hip hop that is important like if you're truly authentically who you are that'll shine through and get you through a lot of shit

what's Everlast what was their group I thought that they was called Everlast House of Pain Everlast he was down

with Rhyme Syndicate with Ice-T and them and then he did House of Pain I would think Insane Clown Posse is authentic to what they do and to where they're from yeah for real and then he did House of Pain. I would think Insane Clown Posse is authentic.

To what they do and to where they're from. Yeah. For real. Even Beastie Boys. Oh, yeah. You know, because these is punk rockers turn hip hop. And I mean, it's like their songs are more punk rock vibe. Right.

You know, I mean, the way they spitting and stuff, you know, so I mean. And coming out of a, And they got no state until Brooklyn. No, but coming out of an era

where punk rock and hip hop were kind of together. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, 77, 70,

I mean, 77 to 79 was really like where punk rock and hip hop came into the forefront. That's Walk This Way? No, no, that's rock. Okay.

Nah, I'm talking like Deborah Harry, the Ramones. Oh, the Ramones from Queens. Yeah. Yeah, Deborah Harry, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they, like, you know, like, that whole punk,

because what was happening was, like, you had people like Fab Five Freddy. Right. He was going to the white parties. Russell Simmons. Yeah, Andre Harrell. The artists at the time. Basquiat and all that whole. Yeah, but they're hanging out at CBGB's for the punk rock parties.

And then they're taking all these here punk rock cats uptown to Harlem World for a hip-hop party. So it's like they're meshing. That's where the spikes come from, right? The spikes? I don't know. Okay. I mean, no, it's a possibility. I mean, then again, you know, that could have just been some, I don't know.

That could have been some rock shit. I don't know. I don't know. I think it came from the disco. Yeah. Who told us that? I think on Grab Us a Cast. I mean, we've heard different things. I know Afrika Bambaata. Yeah. Who told us that? I think on Grab His Cask. We've heard different things.

I know Afrika Bambaataa and all them were the first adopters of that look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's who you need to ask, like Bambaataa or Mel or Flash. Right, Mel. We definitely need Melly Mel over here. Yeah. Yes. If y'all bring Mel, I want to come back.

I just want to sit over there. Nah, we need the other. Yeah. Yeah. It would be amazing to have Melly Mello. Yeah. I'm going to be in that corner just like Derek D. Dot. I'm going to be like, tell him why you mad, son.

Tell him why you mad. Oh, my God. Melly Mello. God damn it. Oh, shit. So let's talk about Set It Off, man. How did that How did that How did that record come about

Set It Off Me and Biz Went to Mark 45 King Crib 45 King Yeah And he played this beat That he had for Biz

Let me take it all Biz beat And Yeah And he played this beat That he had for Biz And Biz didn't like it So I told Mark I was like yo If it's okay with you I'll use it And he said yeah You can have it

I said but can it go a little faster So he tried to speed it up a little bit. And I was like, no, no, no. I meant faster. Like, if it's 33, can you play it on 45? And he said, funny you say that. He took the disc out and loaded up another disc. And this disc, it was playing.

He was like, that's the actual speed. He said, I slowed it down for Biz because I know he don't like fast beats. But this is the actual speed. I was like, I'll take it. And then he told me, yeah, I already submitted it for a Public Enemy remix. I can't remember whether it was Bring the Noise or 9-11 Bass Head, but he had submitted it for a Public Enemy remix. So he told me I couldn't have it.

So, you know, Biz stayed couldn't have it. So, you know, Biz stayed on top of him until finally, I don't know whether they turned it down, I don't know if Def Jam turned it down or whatever the case may be, but Biz stayed on top of him until I could get it. On your behalf, Biz stayed on top of him? Yeah. That's good. Biz stayed on top of Mark 45 until I could get the beat.

And then Biz, you know, he called me, and then he gave me the beat. And then Biz, you know, he called me. Yeah. And then he gave me the beat. And when I was sitting there, I'm like, I'm like, I don't even want to rhyme over that. I think we should say that for the hook. And then I put this James Brown shit in it. You know, yeah. I put that in there.

And then, yeah. And put that in there. And then, yeah. And that's how we did it. And it was like I had something in mind already because it was like I had heard Sex Machine from James Brown. And I'm listening. You know, we're going to do it moving, grooving. Can I count it off? I'm like, I need something like that.

Where like the energy is there before the beat drop. I got to figure out a way to do it hip-hop wise. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Just start to rhyme off acapella and then let the beat come in. So that's why

the letter roll, get bold. I just can't let that end in the... Then I just thought, you know, I was trying to do what James did

with Sex Machine. Yeah, make some noise for that guy there. Let's go to Warm It Up, King. Warm It Up? Yeah. Warm It Up? Biz once again, man.

Koo V called me one day. Koo V called me on the phone. Koo V is Biz DJ, for those that don't know. He called me on the phone one day, and he was like, yo, I got this joint for you. This shit crazy. And it's perfect for you.

I'm like, okay, what's happening? He was like, nah, it's one of them up-tempo joints. Beards was going to use it, but, and before he could say anything else, you hear Beards in the background, it's too goddamn fast.

And V was like, but yo, I need you to do me a favor. I need you to write this here shit for me. Boom, boom, boom. So he asked me to write this verse for him. And, you know, then, you know, they gave me the beat. But yeah, that's another joint that came from Biz. Just like Half 7. You know what's crazy?

And I'm jumping off subject, but still on subject a little bit. You know, I hear you saying this so much. Like, why was Biz so much of a respected MC? And like, you blatantly like wrote his rhymes. And like, he had help. But no one looks at Biz like a person that wasn't an emcee. Like everyone looks at him like a respectable person. But nowadays, if someone was to get help on a pen, they don't they don't look at him like a real emcee.

Because it's like when it comes to emceeing, you know, you have lyricists and you have party rockers. You know, I'm a lyricist. Rakim is a lyricist. Right. KRS, G-Rap, you know, lyricists. Right. Then, you know, you got party rockers. Right.

Biz, Doug E. Fresh. Right. Busy B. Right. You know, DJ Hollywood. Right. Biz. Doug E. Fresh. Right. Busy B. Right. You know, DJ Hollywood. Right. So it's like, with cats like that, if someone write their rhymes, you don't trip on that. Right.

Because it's like, their job is to rock the party. Mm-hmm. And when they come, they do their job. Mm-hmm. With us, we're lyricists. Mm-hmm. Our job is to be lyricists. If someone else right now is shit,

then we ain't really lyricists. Right. You know? Real talk. I want to again shout out Poo V for, and he has a show with Roxanne Shante. That's right.

On Rock the Bells. On Rock the Bells, that's right. Check it out. Big him up. I want to let you invite me, invite us on. Let's go to R-A-W. Raw.

Raw. There was no condoms back then, right? Well, this ain't had nothing to do with that, man. Cut it out. I'm fucking with you. I'm fucking with you. Nah. What happened was we had Just Rhyming With Biz out.

Damn, that's my next question, man. Stop doing my interview. Go ahead. Continue. I was sohymin' with Biz out. Damn, that's my next question, man. Stop doing my interview, go ahead, continue. Continue, continue, continue. I was so happy to have that song out. Unfortunately, everybody thought it was Biz's song. It's playing on the radio, but Biz rhymes first. And then I come on. So they thought it was Biz's song.

So I got a new song out, Yet and Still though. I'm sitting at home broke, me and Scoob got to walk 15 blocks to the store. Steal Mrs. Paul's fish sticks, cans of shrimp, beer. How old are you at this time? More or less? 19, I think, 19, yeah. But I got a record out, and I'm broke. Not making no money, because nobody's booking me for no show.

They're like, this is a good song. So I'm damn near crying to Fly Ty like, yo, man, come on, man. I need to put another song out with just me. Ty's like, yo, there's life in this song. Then finally at some point, Ty just got tired of me asking him. Just so people know, Fly Ty is the person that owned Coach Hillenbecker.

Fly Ty owned Coach Hillenbecker, yeah. Ty finally got tired of me asking him. He was like, yeah, all right, go ahead, do a song. So Marley made a beat. And I wrote the rhymes to Raw. And then this girl that I was dating at the time, she was like, why are you always going to Marley Mall house? Why don't you spend time with me?

I got records. You can look through my records and find. And she pulled these records out. And she had, the first thing I saw was the soundtrack to Black Caesar. Wow. And I'm like, that was my movie. Black exploitation, right? Yeah, yeah.

That was my movie. I'm like, all right, I'll stay. So I stayed. I'm looking through her records, playing shit. And the first thing I heard was that sounded funky was Pays the Cost to Be the Boss. I heard that. I was like, oh, I got to use this. But then I'm playing more.

And then I heard this song, Mama Feel Good. And I heard these horns. And I'm like, oh, that would work on the beat that Marley made. Right. You know? So I'm like, yeah, that would work on the beat that Marley made. Right. You know? So I'm like, yeah, let me grab this. And then the next morning, I did try to do what Biz always do. Like, before he go to Marley Crib, he would always stop at Downstairs Records.

That was, you know, his, you know, routine. So I did it. And I stopped by there. My man, JC, that worked in there, JC was like, yo, we just got these James Brown imports in. And he played them for me. I forgot what the first one was. Then he played the other one.

It was called Cross the Tracks. Kid and Play ended up using it. I think for my way, I think that's the name of the song. But anyway, then he played the third one. And that's the name of the song. But anyway, then he played the third one. And that was the... I'm like, yes, I'll take that. So I took it, went to Marley Cribb and was like, yo, the song we was talking about, I want to do it,

but not with your beat. We need to use this. Marley spares the fuck out. He lost it. Nah, nah, we need to... But then when I played this shit out he lost it nah nah we need to but then when i played this shit molly was like you couldn't do that shit hot so he um i went to go get some pizza and he looped it up but when i came back he looped up the first two bars i was like nah um six bars in there's an offbeat snare

where it's like boom, I'm like, y'all done dumped it to the tape. I'm like, yo, we need that. He mad as a motherfucker. Cause now he has to re-sample it. And then after he sampled it, dump it to tape again. Right, this is pre-digital for everybody that's sitting and watching right now.

Yeah, so he had to re-sample the record and then dump the tape all over again. And then, you know, he did that and it was rocking and I'm like,

all right, put this horn part in. He sampled it, you know, and he stopped it. He like, yo, that shit sound like

some public enemy stuff, man. We ain't trying to sound like them niggas want to be Juice Crew. Oh, shit. I'm like, yo, that shit sound like some public enemy stuff, man. We ain't trying to sound like them. Them niggas want to be Juice Crew. I'm like, Marley, this shit going to drive the record right here. This is the thing right here that's driving the record. That horn right there is going to make a world of difference, I promise you. And then, you know, he sampled it in there and put it in there. And then I was like, yo, can we get an 808 on the one?

The boom. And then Marley said, watch this, watch this. Boom, boom. He was like, ah. I'm like, hell yeah. And yeah, then I went in there and spit the vocals, and the rest was history. God damn it.

Because that's the reason why I start the song off saying, here I am, R-A-W, is because I felt like, finally, here I am. Because I'll lie to you not, I was broke as shit, man. We're just rhyming with biz. Yeah. That's my next question. And let me ask you, because this has been like a lifelong debate for me i'm listening um just rhyming with biz were y'all really rhyming in the park or that was in the

studio that was in molly crib and i saw okay yeah it was me biz and freaking frack because as i listen to it now it still sounds like because the rumor was y'all did it in the park and like that was like a no no okay no park And like that was like A recording No no no Okay Nah cause what it was Was like the studio mic That Marley normally have

With the little screen thing In front of it Uh huh We was passing it around Okay that's the reason Why I said Cause it sounded like It was just me

Biz And frickin' Frack Right From Southside Queens The two girls from Southside Queens You know the female rappers You know Right

We just It was rhyming After I did a song The song was called Something Funky from Southside Queens, the two girls from Southside Queens, you know, the female rappers. We just rhymed, and after I did a song, the song is called Something Funky. It's also on the same 12-inch. That was the actual song. But then we just rhymed afterwards. Molly played the freestyle, and people was requesting that more than the actual song.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So Fly Ty, you know, put it on the 12-inch. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So let's take it to Young, Gifted Yeah. Wow. So Fly Ty, you know, put it on the 12 inch. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So let's take it to Young, Gifted, and Black. Young, Gifted, and Black. Young, Gifted, and Black. I did a radio promo with Marley Mar called Raw Attitude.

It was me and Antoinette. Because Antoinette had this song called I Got Attitude, and I had Raw. So we did this radio promo called Raw Attitude for BLS. And that's all it was, just a radio promo. But then Marley took the beat and gave it to Shan. But, you know, it was like I didn't actually produce this one.

This one, I just gave Marley the sample and he put it together. And he just gave it to Shan, but he didn't ask me, can Shan have it? So I was like, yo, you owe me a beat. To Shan or to Marley? To Marley. I'm like, yo, you owe me a beat, man.

I'm like, I didn't tell you to give it to Shan. But in all honesty, I didn't really want it. You know what I mean? But I mean, I was like, you owe me a beat. So Marley played this beat one day. I was like, yo, check this joint out I got for Shan. And he played this shit.

I'm like, that shit's mean. And when he stopped and took it out, I took the fucking fire floppy disc and hid that shit in his R&B stash. Real talk. I hid it in another stash. And then, you know, when the time came, it was like, yo, you owe me a beat. I need something from you. He was like, all right. He started, he got ready to play some stuff.

I was like, no, no, no, I already know what I want. And I went right back to that stash and pulled that disc out. I was like, I want that. And he popped it in. He was like, y'all been looking for this here shit, man. Yo, you know this was supposed to be for Shan. I was like, well, you gave Shan my shit. And that's how I ended up with that beat.

Because the beat was really for Shan. I used to do that with vinyl. I couldn't afford. I would stash it in another section of the vinyl and come back to it when I could afford it. Exactly. You know. You know.

For the joints that you found samples and co-produced did you get the credit? No. No. And let me just clear that up so there's no hate or any way that anybody can try to

you know kick dirt on Molly name. With the joint I'm talking about, like I said, I gave Marley a beat and he put it together. Now, with like Raw and Ain't No Half Steppin', these are songs that I put together. And Marley just did it on the drum machine. Right.

But these are songs that I put together. So I feel like I produced these songs. Did I get the credit? No. Okay. But these are songs that I feel I produced. Now, there have been many artists that brought beats to Marley,

gave him the record, and then Marley put it together. You bring someone a record, that's what we call in the streets a good find. Right. A good what? A good find. Find, okay.

Yeah. Yeah, that's crate digging terms. That's a good find. Okay, cool. So that's a good find. But if you give the record to Marley and he sampled this part, sampled that part, put a kick snare to it, whatever,

hi-hats or tambourines or whatever, he's producing the song. You just found a dope break. You just found the record, right. That's all you did. that part, put a kick snare to it, whatever, you know, high hats or tambourines or whatever. He's producing the song. You just found a dope break. You just found the record, right. That's all you did. Right. But, like, songs like Raw, Ain't No Half Steppin', these are joints that, you know, I pretty much did all the structuring.

And Young Gibson in Black or no? No, that's Marley. That was Marley. Young Gibson in Black is all Marley. Okay. Marley. That was Marley. Young Gibson in Black is all Marley. Lean On Me is all Marley. Okay. You know?

Yeah. Yeah, that's all Marley. I'll Take You There, all Marley. Okay. Yeah. How about the rap of Kane? Rap of Kane,

that would be me. Okay. Yeah, that was a funny session too. Right. Because Marley was pissed, but again. Marley been pissed In a lot of sessions

God Nah cause He didn't He didn't He was like It's too fast Let me slow it down I'm like nah

I'm like nah I ain't never go this fast Right I'm like I never went this fast Like I need to take it To the next level

Right And He was like, yo, only people who are going to like this shit is Puerto Ricans and break dancers. I like it. I'm Puerto Rican. Because with Raffa Cain,

it's like it had to be switched around because the beat goes, boom, ba-gat, gat, ba-gat, ba-gat, gat, boom, gat, boom, gat. So we had to catch the second part, boom, gat, boom, gat, and make that first. Then make the first part, boom, ba-gat, gat, boom, gat, make that second. So it would be like boom, gat, boom, gat, boom, ba-gah-gah, boom, gah-gah. But it had to be switched around. Get that part, then get that part, and then switch, play that one,

this first, and then after, you know what I'm saying, had to have them do that, you know. But once again, that was something that I structured as well. The reason for that was because Fly Tire couldn't get them to release Set It Off as the second single. He was trying to get Warner Brothers to put out Set It Off as the second single.

They wouldn't do it. They wanted to go with I'll Take You There. Because now, since I was on Warner Brothers, Prince was willing to clear the sample. So they wanted to go with that. Fly Tire couldn't get us to do Set It Off. So since I knew there was nothing I could do And I couldn't even convince them To do Set It Off as the B-side

I'm like, well, let's set it off Warner was like, no, just in case we do a third single We'd rather hold off So I just said, fuck it I just went in the studio and did a new song Which was Raffa King But what made you pick that song to come out to the Apollo? What? for Kane. But what made you pick that song to come out to the Apollo?

They told me that they record mostly everything. They said, you know, we record mostly. We got a studio upstairs. So when people be on stage, we normally record stuff. So we have a whole lot of shows, concerts, the audio recorded. I'm like, okay. I want to do that. Did you hit a crowd? Yeah, the audio recorded. I'm like, okay, I want to do that.

Did you hear the crowd? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, not only did I hear the crowd, I could hear my asthmatic ass going, da-da-da, da-da-da. You listen to that shit. That was the first time I realized, I'm like, yo, you got to get your breathing right.

But that's how you know you're a perfectionist. None of us hear that. All we hear is you tearing that shit down and the crowd going crazy. Well, next time you listen to Rattatatine live, listen. I'm going to hear it now. I'm sounding like motherfucking Darth Vader on that shit, man. I'm saying, man. I listen to it on the way here.

And that shit sounds so dope. I love shows back then where you had to buy hard tickets and things like that. Do you miss days like that? Hell yeah. Because right now, these people can buy online and not even show up to your concert. Well, I mean,

it's not really the days of the tickets. It's the days of the appreciation. Yeah. It's like nowadays, you know, you come on stage. If there's 10,000 people in the audience, you're probably

looking at 7,000 cell phones. Oh, yeah. I hate that. They're like this. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like nobody's really enjoying appreciating the moment. It's not an experience this. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like nobody's really enjoying appreciating the moment. It's not an experience anymore. Yeah. It's something they're trying to capture for later, which.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. But, you know, let me just tell you how powerful your stage presence is. The other day, you know, obviously I'm studying, you know, for the interview, but I'm also just looking out on the internet and I'm looking

at your stage show, right? And then I just go randomly and I'm looking at Moneybags Yo. And Moneybags Yo damn near did your same routine. Like damn near like, you know, jumping around and I'm looking and I'm like, he probably don't even know

You know Like Like his stage presence Like where he actually Got that from Like having dancers Interacting with them And I was just sitting there

Like damn Like this form of hip hop Still exists It just It exists In a different thing I gotta I gotta look him up now

Yeah yeah I'm not familiar But I would I'll honestly If that's what you saw Right Then I would love to meet that brother. I would love to really just sit and build with him about performance. Right. Just to tell him some of the things that I've heard.

Right. You know what's crazy? I used to go on a road with Akineli. Akineli used to stop and he used to do these girls with bananas. He had his version of Scoop and Scrap. No, that's serious because he had Put It In Your Mouth. So he had his version of Scoop and Scrap. No, no, no, that's serious, because he had put it in your mouth. So he had to make that one song stretch.

Right. You understand what I'm saying? Big record. And then I would sit there, and I'd be like, and he'd be like, man, I got this stage presence from Kane. And I'd be like,

did you know a lot of people based their stage presence on how entertaining you was on you are on stage um no i i i didn't know that i mean um i think it's beautiful you know um i remember when me and you had a conversation in london about performing you tore it down oh yeah you know um but i mean it's like um i think it's i think i think it's a blessing because that's something that's been important to me. You know, I saw Biz perform and do what he do. And I was like, yo, he's rocking the crowd.

But it's like, I didn't want to do the funny stuff. Right. You know, I'm like, okay, what's my niche? What's it going to be? And I learned my niche from Doug E. Fresh. It was like Doug came to see my show, and he was like, no, I'm going to watch it from the crowd. And he watched it from the crowd, and we came backstage.

It's like everybody's like, yo, you tore that shit down. Yo, you bodied it. We didn't say bodied in, but whatever the slang was in like 87, you know, he's like, yo, this and that. And what did Doug say? Doug, well, you know, in his fucking high-pitched voice, you know, why are you hitting me? You should've... Damn, you hit him in the high-pitched voice.

Everyone's telling you to kill it, but Doug's like, man, you should've been better. He gave it the real. I mean, you was fucking the shit that you should've... You know, in that fucking voice. Right, right, you could have gave it the real. Because, I mean, you was fucking the shit. You should have. You know, in that fucking voice. Right, right, right. And, I mean, I'm, like, looking at him like, oh, you fucking old school hater. Right.

But then he goes, yo, what you doing? Why don't you come back to the crib? Let's build. So we go back to his crib, and they pop in these videos. Earth, Wind, and Fire. Michael Jackson. Pink Floyd.

And he's showing me this stuff, and he's like, yo, you see what they doing? He's like, this is what I learned from. Because everybody else is studying Run DMC and Flash and the Furious 5 and Houdini. I'm studying what's never been done in hip hop before and introducing

it for the first time. And I'm like, so that next morning I woke up, went straight to Tower Video and bought VHS's of James Brown, Barry White, and Marvin Gaye. And started studying those. I mean, fine, like fine, yeah, everything.

You know, from Barry White taking his pocket square Wiping his sweat out On his face When do you get that routine Where you drop the mic And then you You pick it back up What is it With the water

Yeah yeah Drop shit So it make it look good Yeah yeah yeah Where did you get Cause like I know it's coming Like it's like a magician

You know Like you know the trick is coming But I still get caught I'm looking like he gonna do it He gonna do it And I still amazed Well you know that was something we used to do Before internet days

So nobody really knew But then once you know It became you know like You know it started trending so crazy I just stopped doing it in the show But yeah we used to do that a lot back then This is like early 2000s You know, like, you know, it started trending so crazy, I just stopped doing it in the show. But, yeah, we used to do that a lot back then. This was, like, early 2000s, you know, before, you know, the internet was real crazy, you know what I'm saying? But how did you come up with that?

Like, did the mic actually drop out your hand? No, no, no, no, no, no. I was, it was like, it was a rhyme that I wrote. And, um, uh, matter of fact, I ain't gonna put dude on blast. But,

yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody had told me that, you know, that, that,

that the rhyme, that I, I could have spit something harder, you know, and I was just like, you know, like,

yeah, all right, motherfucker. And, um, I started saying it on stage. And it was coming off on stage, you know. And then know, like, yeah, I motherfucker. And I started saying it on stage. And it was coming off on stage, you know.

And then I was like, I got an idea. This one, I got an idea. So I just saw him. And you're talking to this one person in your mind, you're saying. Huh? You're talking to this one person like. Like, no, I was like, you know, like, they, they, they, they told me the rhyme. Was it hard enough?

And I started saying it on stage. And it's killing them. And then I'm like, you know, like, they, they, they, they told me the rhyme wasn't hard enough. And I started saying, well, Sajan, it's killing them. And then I'm like, you know what? I got an idea. So I just, I added those bars in the front of the rhyme. Those in the front where I dropped the mic. And then I start the rhyme. You know, and it started killing every night.

It was just something I just came up with. Right. Yeah. God damn it. God damn it. Let's make the noise. Now, we have comedians on here all the time before um and then we'll come back to this uh lean on me and we'll come back to that but we have comedians on here all the time

comedians say that had they had these material uh that they that they made back then now they might not be successful comedians. Is there any lyrics that you think, though, from back then that you can... That wouldn't survive today. That wouldn't survive nowadays that you think? Yeah. What's the one that comes to mind? I'll take you there. I mean, I think that the song was, you know, what I was talking about was, you know, a beautiful spiritual message.

But now, I don't think it stood the test of time. Okay. Like, lyrically, I don't think it stood the test of time. You don't think it aged well? Nah, nah. I'll take you there. Definitely be one of those songs that I don't think, yeah. Yeah, definitely, I'll take you there. Definitely be one of those songs that I don't think... Yeah. Yeah, definitely I'll take you there.

How about this one? You ready for one? Ready? You take them 8 to 80? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like right now, yeah. If I would've said that shit This year I would've had to register As a sex offender Let everybody know I'm moving into They fucking neighborhoods

Yeah yeah That would've went But you know That's an old saying That was a saying Yeah That was a saying Make it clear

That was a saying Yeah that was a saying That was a saying But yeah now Yeah yeah That shit would've went Well um Also a great A great song With Nice and Smooth Pimping ain't easy Yeah, that was a saying. That was a saying. But yeah, now, yeah, that shit. Terrible saying. Also, a great song with Nice and Smooth, Pimping Ain't Easy.

That's still around. People still say it. How did that record come about? Just one night in the studio. I forgot what we was recording that day, but Nice and Smooth came through, and we just decided, let's do a song. Wow. And, you know. You know, did that or no?

No, I did that. Okay, wow, that's right. I forgot you were. Well, I did it and had to beat rock, and then Prince Paul, he was there too. Okay. He said, yo, let me put some drums up under it and he put the mary mary drums up under it and then basically kicked me out the control

room and took over the whole goddamn session yeah prince paul yeah he's a genius session yeah Were you ever a pimp? I'm a rap artist, you know. Are you the cops? He drank to that. He drank to that. Hold up. We might have talked about it last time you were here, but let's refresh it.

Hollywood Burn. Burn Hollywood Burn with Public Enemy and Ice Cube. Talk about that record and the making of it. Well, I mean, when I got the call from Chuck, I was ecstatic, you know, because I mean, big Public Enemy fan. And, you know,

he sat there and broke it down what he was envisioning, and I thought it was a dope concept. I'm like, yeah, I see it. I see it. Right. I love it. And then at the end, then he adds on, yeah, Ice Cube going to be on it too.

I'm like, oh. Oh, you didn't know that? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. He ain't tell me that until the end of the conversation. Right. He told me that at the end of the conversation. Right. So I was like, you know, like, yeah. So, I mean, I really wanted to, like, really come through

because Chuck was somebody that I really admired, looked up to because of what he represented in hip-hop. Right. You know, the type of figure he is. You know, he's someone that I've always admired, respected, and looked up to. Right. So I was like, I'm honored to be on a song with you.

Right. And I wanted to be right. Right. So you wrote your verse before knowing Ice Cube was on there? No, no, no, no, no. He told me at the end of the conversation. Okay. So I knew Ice Cube was going to be on there.

And Chuck told us that that song is what kind of ushered, you know, Q's leaving NWA and working with the bomb squad and was a part of that whole like transition i didn't know that okay beautiful speaking of that do you do you write your rhymes different when you know someone else is on the record or is it yeah okay yeah okay if i if i know um that someone like real lyrical on a joint. Matter of fact, I got to tell you a funny story.

Let's go. We into it. Did a song with Game. Game. I can't remember the name of the song. I know the chorus is like KRS spits like

you know the game spit like the daddy can't spit like I can't remember the name of the song. But anyway, when we did it, now, I had did a song with KRS called, it was a Tony Touch. It's me, KRS, and G-Rap. On the 50 MCs? I think so. Okay. But yeah, me, KRS, and G-Rap on the 50 MCs um I think so okay um but yeah we me KRS and G-Rap we did a song and me and G-Rap we came in there on our shit and KRS came in there you know as the

teacher right and um we just did a show together and you and he was in his teacher mode. Chris. So this night at the studio, I'm like, okay, me, game, KRS. This is in Los Angeles? Yeah, in L.A. Oh, wow. Lucky man, game, KRS, and King. Me and Heavy D, rest in Peace They just did a show

House of Blues Wow And they asked us To come through Game So this is game session He invites you It's game

You, KRS And Heavy D No no no He invited me KRS And Doug E. Fresh Oh god game Like Doug beatboxes

At the end Wow History History There you go That's the name of history. That's a dope name for this track. Wow.

So, you know, in my mind frame, I'm like, you know, shit, I'd have been drinking, half drunk. I'm like, but I got some old shit. I got some old shit that'll tear them apart. I ain't even trapping. Right. And I get there. And then KRS goes in there and rhymes first. And I forgot, he said something about,

remember that song, Chicken Noodle Soup? That's how your head gonna look on the back of your coop? And he was saying, yeah, he was saying something about, something about pussy you eat around the bush. And then, yeah, it was like, and then, like, I just got up, and I grabbed my wife, and I'm like, you know, go in there and make me a cup of coffee. And she was like, what?

I was like, you know, I need some coffee. I got to wake the fuck up. She was like, what's wrong? She was like, what's wrong? I'm like, the teacher's not here. It's Blastmaster. He's at Blastmaster. I was like, all right, yo, it's the teacher's not here. It's Blast Master. I was like, it's the teacher's time.

It's Blast Master. I was like, Chris ain't fucking playing tonight. Let me get my shit together. Yeah, for real, man. That was the one time you had to rewrite this shit? No, I didn't. Well, no, I never,

I didn't write anything. He was doing something pre-written. I was about to say some old shit that I never used. Yeah, and then, I didn't write anything. I was about to say some old shit that I never used. No, Grease ain't playing no goddamn games. That's why I'm eating

around the pussy. Yeah. I can't remember the line, but it was a dope line. Hold on, we'll use the bathroom one more time. Go ahead.

Do you, do you think in terms of like the way that hip hop, the trajectory, people are saying that it's become a commodity for industry and the cultural aspect, which is graffiti, the dancing, the break dancers, the B boys, the B girls, the DJs, the MCs is being dissected, taken apart.

Do you feel that that's true or not true? Yeah. But I mean, you know what you expect man i mean um i mean that happened with rock and roll that happened with jazz you know you don't think it's avoidable for hip-hop that it can come back to what it was um no not unless we take control of hip-hop and when i say we i don't mean the artists I mean y'all motherfuckers, you know? And like the Kevin Lyles and, you know, those type of cats, you know, say like, okay, look, I want this, but I also want this. You know? I want to talk about this, but I also want to talk about that.

Right. You know, and it's like showcasing the lyrical artists, showcasing the conscious artists, you know, and making it where, you know, everybody gets that same equal type of play. Because, I mean, you got to think about it, you know. Conscious hip-hop was the forefront back then. NWA didn't really get no radio play. Right, right.

Luke didn't get no radio play. Ghetto Boys, G-Rap, they didn't get no radio play. Right. You know? Because of the violence or the sexual content that was mentioned in the lyrics. Right. You know?

Mm-hmm. Conscious hip-hop was the forefront. Mm-hmm. But they still went platinum, double platinum. You know what I'm saying? Because people loved them. Yeah. Who are we talking about?

Native tongue? We're talking... No, no, no. We're just talking about culturally, like... Okay. Remember, we talked about what Native tongue? We're talking about culturally. Remember we talked about what Special Ed about. The industry making hip-hop and rap music specifically, the commodity and the culture dissected into. But I mean, you got to understand,

from a business aspect, it's all about what's going to generate money. And that's the only thing they're going to think about. A corporation is only going to think about what's going to generate money and once something becomes commercial what happens is quality goes out and quantity comes in right you know what i'm saying but what's different i think in for what you're saying and for hip-hop specifically with the elements is that the music was the first thing that they were easily able to make money off of. But the other elements found their way in terms of the art,

figuring out ways to make money. Now breakdance is going into the Olympics. They figured out the way to make money. And those elements internationally are just as big as the music itself. So it's just, maybe Maybe hip-hop could be different. It's like graffiti

found its way into art, not elevating as hip-hop. It found its way into art. Breakdancing Found its way Into the Olympics Right You know what I'm saying

That's what you're saying Not elevating as hip hop You know what I'm saying I said it earlier I think I said this They brung Big to your crib But

Was it the rumor That Jazzo Brung Jay-Z To your crib No no no Okay Um Shirt Kings Oh Shirt Kings And Queens Yeah Queens we always Got something to do with it Jazzobrung Jay-Z to your career? No, no, no. Okay.

Shirt Kings. Oh, Shirt Kings and Queens? Yeah. Queens, we always got something to do with it. God damn it. I'm fucking around. My bad, my bad. You were waiting for your queen. Yeah, I was waiting for my queen's prize.

It was quickly down. Come on, girl. No, come on. Come on, give it up for Queens. Give it up. Because the rumor was that you were supposed to sign Jay-Z at one point Was that just a rumor

Can we straighten that out No no no Can we straighten that out What it was Was Shirt Kings asked me to do A mixtape With Jazz

With Jazz-O Jazz-O Okay Yeah I came Met with them, and then Jaz said, can my man rhyme on the tape?

Wow. I said, cool. So we did the mixtape, me, Jaz, and Jay-Z. Okay. And then on the ride back home, Nike from the Shirt King says, yo,

really we wanted you to do this because we trying to get Jazz a new deal. And we was wondering if you'd be willing to work with him to get a new deal. Oh, OK. And I was like, honestly? The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger

than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant,

and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek.

I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull

will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I kind of like the light-skinned motherfucker better.

Is it possible I could work with him? All right. All right. And then that's how me and Jay-Z got connected. Oh, because you didn't know Jazz. I thought y'all was from the same neighborhood or something. No, Jazz was somebody that shit back then. Jazz was somebody I was extremely jealous of.

Yeah, wow. Jazz was the hottest unsigned artist in Brooklyn. Like, no, jazz was so popular in Brooklyn. Like, I had battled a lot of people. My name was buzzing. But it wasn't like jazz. It was like Fat Boys and Houdini, Jazzo, Big Daddy Kane. Wow.

You know what I'm saying? Wow. Like, yeah. Big Daddy Kane Wow You know what I'm saying Wow Like yeah You know so It was like Yeah he was like Popular like a Like a signed artist Back

No deal During my battle And I always wanted To battle this dude But could never find him Right I even went to Marcy And battled some other dude

Cause Jazz wasn't around Wow But I mean Yeah I was like You know like I want to battle this dude Right Right Right So when I was like, you know, like, I want a palace. Right, right, right. So when they said that about, you know, it's like I got records out and stuff.

But I mean, it was like I'm thinking in that mind frame. Right. You know? But then when they said this, it was like, yo, I mean, it was great, you know, meeting Jazz. Right. And he did that fast rapping shit that night. You know, it was the first time I heard that shit. And I was like, yo,

dude is dope. I'm like, but yo, that other dude, he just reminded me of me with his slick ass tongue. I like to work with the light skin dude.

And then, yeah, it was Jay-Z. And then we started working together. I want to touch on something you said earlier because you said

a mixed tape. When you say a mixed tape, I want these people to understand what you meant by a mixed tape. Well, Fresh Gordon had tape, I want these people to understand what you meant by a mixed tape. Well, Fresh Gordon had a tape

with a bunch of songs on it, but he had a freestyle on it. You know, it's like, you know, song playing. Yeah. Right.

And it was a freestyle with me, Jazz, and Jay-Z. Wow. That was on, you know, a tape with a whole bunch

of other artists, you know, music mixed together. But anyway, though, you know, I started working with Jay-Z. I started taking him in the studio and recording songs on him and trying to get him signed. And we went to many different labels. I need you to name one label that ate their heart out.

Who did you bring that fronted on Jay-Z? Giant Records. Oh, they gone. Def Jam. Def Jam. They fucked up Def Jam. Go ahead. Giant Records,

Def Jam, Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers, you fucked up. We gave money for Warner Brothers. And that's when I'm on Warner Brothers.

I was on Warner Brothers. That's wild that they turned. Wow. But yeah, yeah, they turned it down. Wow. Yeah.

But I mean, and then like when I went on the road with Patti LaBelle, I saw that Patti was doing outfit changes. Like I'm sitting there talking. I'm like, yo, is that the same shit Patti? Patti didn't have red on just a minute ago. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. That's about the third time she done changed her clothes.

So now I'm paying attention. So when her tour ended and I went back on my tour, I'm like, I called Jay-Z and I called Positive K. Right. I'm like, yo, I need y'all to come on the road with me. Right. I'm like, I'm going to bring y'all out in the middle of the show. So you can't do your...

Yeah, so I can do everything. I got her, man. What you man got to do with me? Shut up. Yeah, man. Positive K. Holy shit. I got up man What you man got to do with me Shut up man That famous Recording That's with Jay Z comes out Biggie comes out also right

Jay Z comes out Shaheen Madison Square Garden I think it was the 93 I believe Yeah Bighead asked Mr. C Can he come to the show at the Garden Right And say yo Big had asked Mr. C, can he come to the show at the Garden? Right. And I said, yo,

can I come and can I bring Tupac? Because Pac was in New York. Right, the same, right. And, you know, C asked me, and I was like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, bring him on through. So Big brought Pac through, and at the end of the show Sorry, that was at your show

Yeah, it was my show, yeah Okay, that's right The famous Biggie, Pac, Ryman Yeah, it was my show Holy shit, I totally forgot Thank you I got that down here on vinyl Tape Masters pressed it up

And I got it on vinyl Holy shit That was at Budweiser Superfest I believe 1993 And, you know Near the end of the, I brought them all up on stage. Big Pop, Shaheen. Shaheen was there too? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaheen was on tour with me. His label sent them on tour. But Jay-Z was there too? No, no, Jay wasn't there. Because Jay-Z's not on one of the recordings? No, he's not on that. Not on that one. Or maybe he's on that vinyl, Jay wasn't here. Because Jay-Z's not on one of the recordings? No, he's not on that. Not on that one. Or maybe he's on that vinyl, just on something else.

Jay, I think you're talking about my birthday party in 91. Okay. That's probably what you're talking about. Yeah. But yeah, with that one, it was just me, Shaheem, Big Jay, and Scoob. Scoob, yeah, I remember. And Fat Joe was there, too. Right, yeah. He talked about And Fat Joe was there too. Right, yeah.

He always came on. He talked about the night with Tupac and... Yeah, because Joe was supposed to go next. Right. Joe was supposed to go next

and then they was on the side of the stage letting me know, you got five minutes left and I still hadn't done half step in or warming up. Oh, God. Yeah,

so I couldn't let Joe on and I had to, like, I can't, man. You know? That's sight language from the stage. Yeah, so I couldn't let Joe on, and I had to, like, I can't, man. You know? That's sight language from the States. Yeah. No, because, I mean, it's like, you know, I know that feeling because, like, you know,

I was where Joe was. I was there, like, a year before. Right. You know what I'm saying? When Bobby Brown, you know, brought me on and let me rock, you know? So, I mean, I really wanted to bring Joe on, but we only had five minutes left, and I still hadn't done half-stepping or warming up.

Did you ever think that Tupac and Big, their camaraderie that they had at that time, would ever end up where they was at, especially that night? Did you see, like, you know what I mean? Successfully or returning to the essence, what you mean? I meant like You know Becoming beef

Becoming beef Oh the beef Cause at that time When you look at that When you look at them They look like best friends They look like best friends They look inseparable

No no These like These motherfuckers Standing next to each other You know Puffing weed And you know And yeah

And you just said Big brung Tupac You just said that So you didn't even invite Tupac No no no You invited just said big brung Tupac. You just said that. So you didn't even invite Tupac. No, no, no. You invited big and big brung Tupac. Yeah, exactly. That's crazy.

Yeah. And you saw the chemistry. You saw that they were. They was cool. They were there like, like they look like, you know, like I saw them like, you know, probably doing a whole bunch of songs together and all types of shit, the way they looked that night. Yeah, I saw an amazing chemistry.

So what did you think when this beef did transfer? Did you be like, nah, this can't be. I mean, it really hurt, man,, it's like I saw the LL, Kumo, D-Beef, and then they would be in front of each other shaking hands, laughing. Right here. You know, say some sarcastic shit back and forth to one another, but it was all love. Almost like a sport. Yeah.

I've seen, you know, with Shan and KRS in the same room. And, you know, it wasn't, you know, no drama. You know what I'm saying? And then, like, to understand that, like, you know, Cold Crush, Fantastic Five. Like, these dudes battling for $1,000. You know what I'm saying? And the $1,000, you know what I'm saying? And the $1,000 go to the winner. The other motherfucker is broke.

And then the $1,000, how you split that against six members? Right, right, right. You know? And it's like, you know, that's what hip-hop is to me. That right there. Right's like, you know, that's what hip-hop is to me. That right there. Right.

Where, you know, six dudes can battle another six dudes to split a thousand dollars. Right. And then go home satisfied. And look at that. With a loss, it's like we need to write some new shit.

And that's the end of it. You know, to see that this can escalate into something like that, you know, it was just sad to see, man. It was sad to see. Right. How was it traveling to L.A. at that time for you? Like, you know, I mean, I remember somewhere around that period, we had no choice.

Like, when we landed to L.A., like, the record labels had security around us. Like, we had no choice. How it for you um after that time period no no problems I mean you know um that shit didn't nobody was looking at me like that like I never had no issue I mean I think that was more or less a bad boy death row thing. Crew against crew. You know. Now, there was some of y'all that, you know, it shit me a trinkle down on because it's like, okay, you, you know,

I think there was some shit with Nas and, you know, with your affiliation with Nas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? You know, so it could, you know, but with me, it was like, I wasn't affiliated with none of that shit. Didn't Eric B. try to sign you to Death Row East

at one point? Yeah. Okay, how did that, what happened with that? He called and said, yo, Suge trying to, you know, build a death row east, man, and, you know, I think it might be a good look for you. Right. And, you know, he ready to cut a check. Right. You willing to meet with him?

I'm like, yeah. So I went out there, you know, we had a check. All right. You willing to meet with him? I'm like, yeah. So I went out there, you know, we had a meeting and then he was like, yo, we going to Vegas tomorrow. You want to roll yet?

So I went to Vegas with them for a Tyson fight and then, you know, we out there. The Tyson fight? No,

not the one that Pac died. Oh, God. This was the one right before it. I'm sitting here bracing myself. No, no, no. I thought he was setting up a crazy story. No, no, God. This was the one right before it. I'm just here embracing myself. No, no, no. I thought he was setting up a crazy story.

No, no, no, no. This was the one before that one. But we went, and, you know, Suge was talking about working with death row artists. I'm like, yeah. And then Pac came over, and he was like, you know, like, yo, I love to work with Kane. And he was like, well, shit, let's stop talking, Mata.

Let's make it happen. So we leave Vegas. And we just got there. We leave Vegas and go back to take a flight back to L.A. that night. Wow. And go to Death Row Studios. To do the deal. No, to record.

Oh, to record. Okay. To do the deal? No, to record. Oh, to record, okay. So me and Pac went in the studio and did a song together. Oh, shit. And then the little dudes. Outlaws. Yeah. Outlaws. As soon as we got there, they came up to Pac talking about,

yo, Lauryn Hill dissed you, Mobb Deep dissed you, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So then Pac went in the studio And started writing Some shit about I think it might have been that I think it was You were there, Kane?

Yeah He started He said yes He started writing that shit And while he was in there Writing that shit I wrote a song for Hammer Because Hammer was on Death Row

Yeah, Hammer was on Death Row I wrote a song for Hammer. Because Hammer was on Death Row. Yeah, Hammer was on Death Row. I wrote a song for Hammer. And then they was like, yo, Suge ready to meet with you. And we sat and we had a meeting. And

like when I walked in, these two big ass rockwilders came. I felt like there was dogs there. Yeah. I felt like there was dogs there. Yeah. I felt like there was dogs there. Go ahead. They come running around, sniffing around me and stuff, you know. And then Suge, you know, he comes out the back, sits down with his cigar,

sits his cigar down and does this. And both the dogs ran and sat down next to him. So I'm like, okay, this is one of them meetings. You know. Rugs ran and sat down next to him. So I'm like, okay, this is one of them meetings. You know? I don't know why I never in my mind pictured this meeting happening. It's the best. And then we talked.

Right. And he said, well, what you want? And, you know, keep in mind, you know, this is back then, you know, so I'm like, and I'm not, I'm not sure where his head is at and how relevant he see me. Right.

So to play it safe, I'm like, well, listen, man, why don't we just do a one album deal with a one year option? Right. And, you know,

say like a 400,000 advance. Right. He's like, that's an odd number. Why don't you just simply say 500,000? Well, the 500,000 it is then. Man,

you Big Daddy Kane, man. Right. I can't see myself, you know myself signing you for less than a million. I got to give you a million. Wow. Because you're already a household name. Let's buy.

And then he said something that was so appealing. He said, because you see, Pac became a household name. Snoop became a household name. And that's what I be trying to tell the Dog Pound. They got to make themselves a household name, but they don't want to identify as individuals. They just want to keep screaming Dog Pound, and that's why them motherfuckers only sold two million.

And I'm like, two million is low number? I'm like, my man. So, you know, that was appealing to me when he said that. But then he was like, well, yo, look, I don't know how you're doing financially, but, you know, if you want, you know, I can, you know,

probably, you know, just give you 100K in the morning. That's when I knew it was time to go. I was like, you just going to give me 100,000? Nah, I don't. No contract. I owe someone a hundred thousand with no agreement. Nah, I was like, um, I'll let you know tomorrow. And then I went and switched my flight to like a 6am joint, got the fuck up out of L.A., hit Eric and was like, you know, yeah, nah, I'm good, man.

I'm a chill, man. But it wasn't nothing like physical or nothing. No, no, no. It seemed like you showed him mad respect. Nah, Suge showed mad love. It was just that... It just didn't feel right. Yeah, it's like that's not, I don't,

you know what I'm saying? It's like, to me, that's like the start of debt. And it just wasn't a good, I didn't feel it. It's almost like the guy checking in the jail and he finds a box of Newports on his bed. My man. It's like, where the fuck did this come from? Like, you know that, like, this ain't free. There's something to be paid back from you taking that loosey.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, I understand.y. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I understand. You understand me? Yeah, yeah. I understand. So what was the beef with you and MC Shan?

The beef? Honestly, I don't know what it was. I guess when I got down, you know, well, I mean, according to Shan, it was like, he said that that's what they thing was. Like, you know, you're the new member. You got to pay dues.

Yeah. Right. You got to pay dues. Wow. But, you know, it's like when I got down with Biz, it wasn't that type of thing. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't like, you know, like he, you know, saying slick shit

or asking me to carry his bags and no shit like that, you know. So when I got down and like, you know, Shan kept referring to me as the new nigga, you know, I just felt like, okay, dude got something against me. And, you know, I try to, you know,

just keep my distance. But I remember one time, I think it was in Virginia, a show with Fat Boys and Salt-N-Pepa. And, you know, he was getting real extra with it. And, you know, I said something to Biz about it. And, you know, I said something to Biz about it. And, you know, Biz told me to chill.

So I just, you know, I just tried to keep my distance, you know. I was like, all right. You know. And I was like, all right, let me just stay away from dude. You know what I mean? You know.

And that's the way I just tried to handle it. But then we eventually got cool. Okay. You know, it was me and him. We was living on the same block. And G-Rap was living in the condo right behind me. Damn.

Damn. It's a hip-hop neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, word. Yeah, so we ended up getting cool. I'm in his condo. He in my condo. You know, that type of thing.

You know, yeah. Like, you know, yeah. I mean, I love Sham, man. I love Sham. that type of thing you know um yeah like and you know yeah i mean i love sham man i love you it's like you know once i got to know him i know okay yeah he just the personality yeah he just like to argue and you know you know that's his thing you know yeah and you know yeah i love sham so um is the symphony the greatest hip-hop posse cut of all time? I think so.

I think so. I mean, only reason I say that is because when I think of like, my favorites,

What is your favorite? Like, Headbanger um Headbanger Headbanger ooh EPMD yeah um

K-Solo that's the Headbangers Headbangers Headbangers the name of the song yeah Depth Squad though

right yeah Depth Squad Headbanger um no Head Squad Head Squad that's what I'm saying what's the um

the Jay-Z joint you me him and her is that the name of it yeah you me him and her. Is that the name of it? Yeah. You, me, him and her? Yeah.

Like when I think about it, it's like the reason why I would go with this symphony is because I think that everybody on there spit fire. Yes, I believe so. You know? I agree. I think there's a lot of great posse joints. Oh, what's the Nas joint? Live at the Barbecue? Live at the Barbecue.

Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. But that's more of an extra piece joint. No, but that's a posse joint. Oh, what's a Nas joint? Live at the Barbecue? Live at the Barbecue. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. But that's more of an extra P joint. No, but that's a posse cut. It's a posse cut. No, no, but you said the Nas joint.

I want to give it to you. Well, I mean, I just meant... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, but he's saying Live at the Barbecue. Yeah, but you're okay with the Nas.

But he's hip-hop. No, you're right. It's hip-hop. You're right. It's how a lot of people discover Nas. It's our main source. That's the main source.

You're right. You're right. That's the main source. You're absolutely right. Hip-hop heads will kill us. Back to the crew again. Who is a's our main source. That's the main source. You're right. You're absolutely right. Hip-hop heads will kill us. Back to the Crew again, too, is a good posse cut. Back to the Crew again, yes. Yeah.

That one, too. There's a lot of them, but it's like... Scenario. Man from TV. Scenario. Scenario, I think. Scenario. Scenario is number two.

I think Symphony is number one. Scenario is number two. See, with me, it's like I would probably go Symphony, Headbangers, and then you, me, him, and her. I forget what that one is. That's Jay-Z, Bleak, Beans, and what was the girl's name? Oh, Emile.

Emile, yeah. Okay, all right, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't put that up there. Yeah, I don't got that up there. That's just me. I got Reservoir Dogs with Jay-Z and the locks and Beans in them. I got that up there more, Reservoir Dogs.

I love that you, me, him, and her. I got Asacha. Yeah. I wouldn't even, I know this is not, it wouldn't be considered a posse cup because they're a group, but they are individuals. It's protect your neck. Nah, I can't put that as a posse cup because they're a group. But looking back at it now as they're individuals is ill. You know, I didn't realize how out of line I was while rhyming on the symphony until I seen Talib Kweli the other day.

He did it, and I wanted to call him and say, don't you ever do that again. Nah, nah. I think that Tyleb verse was dope, man. Yeah, yeah. None of us can recreate that moment. We just got to leave that goddamn record alone. All of us, leave the fucking symphony alone. No, no, no.

But I think, honestly, I thought that it was just great to just see that type of vibe, you know? Because, I mean, it's like, you know, you got to think from a musician's standpoint. Right, right.

You know? Right. It's like, there's a lot of stuff that you look at as classics. Right. But, like,

tell the truth, man. Right. You, like, Say, say, say, Michael Jackson, Paul McCartney. You wouldn't have been mad at Prince doing Paul McCartney vocals, would you? Nah, not at all. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, it's like, you know, sometimes it's just something, it's just a little different. Right. You know, it's the, you know, sometimes it's just something, it's just a little different.

You know, it's the original and that's the shit. Show you a variation of it. You know, but yeah, it's good to just, you know, think out of the box and try something different sometimes, man. So you, my bad for changing up, but you recently just performed in Queensbridge. Yeah. And you, how was that? I mean, it was like, uh, I had G-Rap coming to Lincoln Center.

That was dope. And he told me that he had a show in Queensbridge. Oh, he brung you out. I thought you brung him out. No, no, no. It was G-Rap's show. And he told me he had a show in Queensbridge and I was like, when? I'm like, well, I'm here in New York. I mean, I'm like, you need me? And he was like, hell yeah. I'm like well I'm here in New York I mean you know I'm like you need me and he was like hell yeah I'm like all right cool and um I was like um well shoot me an email and I'll um I'll send you an instrumental of the symphony because he said he said he only had a

version you know just an edited version just for his verse oh so I was like I'll send you um a version you know for both of us okay and then he was like you know and I was like I was like, I'll send you a version for both of us. Okay. And then he was like, you know, and I was like, you need me to do something else? He was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, all right, well, I'll send you the symphony joint, and I'll send Warm It Up. And then, you know, I came in and rocked with him. God damn it.

I don't know why. I don't know why. I think I saw the tragedy, and he said that he came to see you, I believe, when you was in Queensbridge or something like that. Or he came to see you perform. But so they didn't announce your name? No, no.

Oh, you was a surprise. Yeah, I was a surprise, yes, because this was a G-Rap show, you know. I mean, it's like, you know, G-Rap, man, that may be my favorite MC, man. I mean, he's someone that I've always loved, and he's always been so my favorite MC, man. I mean, he's someone that I've always loved, and he's always been so inspirational to me, man.

I mean, I can remember numerous nights, you know, back in the 80s, like, you know, I called his brother up on the phone late at night, right, and I'm like, you know, like, yo, check this out, I got this joint, the best, so yes, I guess, yes, the rest, you know. And he's like, oh oh that's fire then two

nights later g-rap called me back and he like yo i got this i just wrote this joint check this out the creature feature capture up to teach he like it was like like you know he was like that dude that always kept me on my toes man i mean and just a hell of an mce. Yeah. And I mean, and the crazy thing is like we got down with the Juice crew. Right. Damn near the same time. Right. Like he got down like maybe like six months before me or some shit like that. Right.

You know, because Polo had this dude Frost and he got locked up. And then Polo, you know, brought on G in. Right. And then Biz brought me in. Right. But this all happened in 86. Wow. And then Biz brought me in. Right. But this all happened in 86. Wow.

You know? So let me ask you, if you have a show with Master Ace, Craig G, G Rap, and you, all on the same show, who performs symphony?

Do y'all do it together, or do y'all do it separate? Oh, no. We would definitely do it together Okay Who's set You better end the show And whoever's I mean I guess

Whoever's going last I would think Would make the most sense Okay Whoever's going last Okay Yeah it'd be selfish For somebody to come out

And just do they first right I mean I don't think That we would do that I think that you know We would you know Get together collectively Okay And just you know

Figure out okay yeah How we gonna work The symphony in right yeah definitely let me ask you right um everyone has love for mr c everyone knows and um you know from from you the biggie to all of this and then it was at one point it was like this controversy that he was going through what did you think of that when you heard uh you know like like he was living an alternative lifestyle? I mean, that's his life. I mean, you know, this is a brother I've known since high school. Right.

You know, I've known this brother since high school. And he held me down through thick and thin. That's beautiful. You know, so I've always loved and respected Mr. C. And whatever he going through, I personally feel like I'm going through it too. So, I mean, anything I can do to help or be in his corner, I'm willing to do.

You know, I love Mr. C like a brother, you know? Let's go. Let's make some noise for Mr. C. What's left for Kane to do in this game? I think honestly, I want to do some more movies

and I really want to connect with some young artists. I would really like, connect with some young artists. I would really like to build with some young artists, you know. Mentorship? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's certain artists I just see,

and I'm like, I see something special. Like Lady London, I think she's special. I think Lola Brooke is special. You saw her in Jay-Z and Earl, you said. I think the Eagles are special. Right. You know, certain artists, I just feel like they just special. Right.

You know? Even Conway the Machine. Right. There's something special about him, but I don't know if he's really channeling into it. I think I see it, but I see something very special. Have you guys collaborated? Yeah, we did a song. I did a song for Busta.

Okay. Oh, yeah, that's right. For Slap. That's right, yeah. It's like three generations, I saw it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a video on everything, right? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did it here in Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hip-hop, man, like, coming on 50 years. I know we spoke about it earlier. I know we spoke about, you know, the cliches of it being this far, but now with this AI thing, are you with AI? And not Al Iverson.

No, I understand what you mean. No, I am not. And here's the realest shit about that. Mm-hmm. AI comes into effect, right? Mm-hmm. I don't think it's going to affect me. Mm-hmm.

I'm a performer. Mm-hmm. I have a set fan base. Mm-hmm. Where I haven't had a hit record in like 30 years. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. It's not going to affect me. Right. where I haven't had a hit record in like 30 years, right? It's not going to affect me.

There's Big Daddy Kane fans that want to see me, hear me. I think that what's gearing up for the future is that, because right now with the younger generation, it ain't like how I said, you know, if we got a 10,000-seater, 7,000 of them got their phones out. With the younger generation, if they're in a 10,000-seater, 10,000 of them got their phones out. So they're already watching the show or filming the show instead of really focusing on it. It's a phone thing, right? We got AI and we have holograms.

Right. We got a bunch of young artists that's not really, really performing on stage. Right. So what's going to happen is there's going to be digital artists. Yeah. They're going to create holograms of this perfect-looking artist.

Oh, you didn't see? They had one. They had like an artist and... No, no, no, no, Drake, shut the fuck up. No, no, I'm talking about there was a real artist that was an AI artist. He was signed to Universal, and then he said nigga, and then he dropped him. Y'all don't no. I'm talking about there was a real artist that was an AI artist. He was signed to Universal and then he said nigga

and then he dropped him. Y'all don't know what I'm talking about? Yeah. He was... But that's what's getting ready to happen. Right.

What's going to happen is they're going to create holograms and with the AI thing it'd be like, you know what? With this artist, yeah, give him some

blonde dreads, make a bunch of tattoos, muscle bound, and you know what? Make his artist, yeah, give him some blonde dreads, make a bunch of tattoos, muscle-bound, and you know what, make his voice sound like Michael Jackson. Right. Nobody heard Michael Jackson spitting bars. Make his voice sound like Michael Jackson. And concerts will be downloaded to your phone.

Right. Where you don't even have to go. Because you ain't fucking looking anyway. This younger generation ain't looking anyway. They just got their phone up the whole show. So wouldn't it make more sense for them to just be able

to buy the concert and just right there? Beyonce and Drake are selling tickets to their concert where you don't even get to see them. What do you mean

you don't get to see them? It's audio only. Audio only? Yeah. That's some crazy shit. It's hard. Let's make some noise for them discovering the trick let's think about that they're going there to hear it so okay you lost me then yeah they go to the car sir right but they don't get to see her that's

what i'm saying they don't get to see him at all but they get to hear it it's audio tickets yeah that's wild. Yeah, that's real. Because the concert, to me, is everything is visual. Yeah. That turns me off. Like, when I go on stage,

I seldomly go on stage, but I go on stage and everyone's just like this. I'm looking like, motherfucker, I'm right here. Yeah. That's the point, to see your favorite artist

on stage live, like, in a moment. But, I mean, what this younger generation need to understand that it's going to affect them down the line? And I don't mean far down the line.

No, it's all happening quickly. It's happening very fast. And I would hate to see that happen to the younger generation where they're replaced by digital images and digital voices. I want to see them win, be successful,

make money, be able to feed their family, and have successful careers, man. That's part of the sag strike right now. That big sag strike is about all of that. AI doing the right thing. AI, that's part of it. The facial stuff, and they just want you

to be a voice actor, and then they're going to take your whole image, and you... There are different things, different ways that they part of it, yeah. The digital, the facial stuff. And they just want you to be a voice actor, and then they're going to take your whole image. And there are different things, different ways that they'll apply it. And you ran into something, too, like the sign language interpreter. You remember what happened? Fake one? No. No, no, no.

He was a real um interpreter um what happened was uh like i've seen like people that do sign and you know they're standing there you know doing what they do right so when i came on stage i'm performing and then i look to the side the medal of honor is the highest military decoration in the united states recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez.

I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first Black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant,

and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and MeatEater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West

and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Out of the stage, and I saw this dude like this. You know, and he's like, I didn't know that he was an interpreter. Oh, yeah. I thought that he was somebody that came out in the crowd just making gestures. Right.

I don't speak sign. I mean, I don't read. Right, right, right. I don't, you know. So when I saw him, because of his energy, because he's jumping. So I'm thinking that he's just someone just came out there just having a fucking moment. I'm a Big Daddy Can't Hype man.

So I pushed him to the side, and then I went and started performing. Now look, he was back out there again. And I pushed his ass to the side again. And then I went, and then when we finished the song, my DJ was like, yo, yo, he, you know, he told me who he was. And then I walked up to the dude and I was like, yo, I'm sorry, man. I didn't know. I apologize. You know, I apologize.

Right. And then I held his hand up and told the crowd, you know, like, listen, you know, I'm glad he's here. I said something like, because even if you can't hear me, I want you to enjoy the show. So thank you, brother. You know, and left it like that. And then he finished doing what he was doing. But I didn't know. I didn't know.

That was like your first controversy on the internet. Like, you know,. But I didn't know. I didn't know. That was like your first controversy on the internet. Like, you know, like, I mean... Probably. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like in this new version of... Like the outrage culture. I mean, you know,

everybody want to cancel you, you know, for some... It's like... Half a dozen every other week. It's like everybody looking for some shit to be bitter about. You know? Was that something abnormal to you

or you adapted to it? Because, you know, back in the days, there to be bitter about. Was that something abnormal to you or you adapted to it? Because back in the days, there'd be rumors about you, but it wouldn't come to you. You didn't have a Twitter. Especially not instantaneously. You didn't have an Instagram. So was that something that was different for you? I mean, I didn't really give a shit, man. It was the type of thing where I know I didn't do nothing wrong. Right. And once I

understood who he was, I apologized to him. And you did on your Instagram as well. Yeah. Because I mean, it was like, you know, people even had their desk and said, well, you didn't apologize

to the deaf community. I didn't do shit to the deaf community. I didn't do shit to the deaf community. Right. I pushed him. The guy. And I apologized to him.

That's who I owe the apology to. Right. You know? Plain and simple. You know? And I mean, you know,

because it's like, I didn't know what was going on. But once I found out what was going on, I corrected it immediately. Quickly. You know?

Because, yeah. Because, yes, if you can't hear this show and he's there to help you, yes, I need him. Like, I would love for someone like him to be at every goddamn show. Right. You know, I see the importance and I respect that, you know. Yeah. You think people are too sensitive nowadays?

Hell yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. Like, we so sensitive that you can be on someone's side and agree with what they're saying, but just if you word it in a way that don't sound like it, they'll get mad at you. That happens all the time.

All the time. Yeah. Ah, this is terrible. That's why, for me, it's just so much easier To just shut what we call the fuck up I just be quiet Go ahead

Go ahead We're pushing this documentary What made you want to come together And push this documentary The documentary is called Paragraphs I Manifest Paragraphs I Manifest. Paragraphs I Manifest. And what it's about is lyricism in hip-hop and the importance of it.

Songwriting, what made you write this song, what was the inspiration, things of that nature. Because the documentary is really for the younger generation. What made you write this song? What was the inspiration? Things of that nature. Because the documentary is really for the younger generation. I want the younger generation to understand the importance of lyricism. Yeah, we can't lose that. You know, because, yes, because it is a lost thing in hip hop. And I want them to really understand that. And hopefully, you know, by hearing from the pioneers, hearing from some of the younger generation, even hearing from some of the battle rappers. Right. I'm thinking, I'm hoping that it will be something that can trigger something in the younger generation.

Like, you know, nah, I want to, you know, have some bars. I want to, you know, because I want, like I said, I want to see these young cats win. I want to see them succeed. I want to see them keep hip hop, you know, going. You know, I'm 54 years old, my dude, you know. Right. I'm not going to be here forever. Right.

You know, Rakim not going to be here forever. G-Rap not going to be here forever. Right. You know, Nas. Yeah. You know, Jay-Z, they're not going to be here forever. G-Rap not going to be here forever. Nas. Jay-Z. And what hip-hop does best is reflect and report what's going on and how can it do that if it has no lyrics?

Right. If you can't articulate it. Yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right. You know, it's like, you know, there's so many dimensions of hip hop. And there's so many different things.

Like some people just want to party. Right, right. Which is a part of it. It's the balance. Yeah. But I mean, I just think that when you are lyrical, it can help with your longevity.

I just believe that. Because there's so many artists that drop party songs, and then a year later they're forgotten. Because a new party song came out. Because it's like, all of that was just part of a trend. But there's lyricists that said something that stuck to your soul.

And these artists had longevity because of something that you said that they probably repeat daily, yearly. Right. And the idea of a lot of us learned vocabulary off of lyricists, off of MCs. I was never good in book studying, but lyrical artists made me want to, I don't know that word. What does that word mean? I want to understand this rhyme. That's how I graduated high school. Right.

Real talk, that's how I graduated high school. Looking up rap lyrics. No, no, no. Elevating your lyrics. I was failing in social studies. And I was doing great in math, great in science, great in English.

My guidance counselor, he was pointing stuff. And I had a, and this is me, my guidance counselor, and my mother. We're talking. And I said, why do we need eight credits in social studies?

We need seven in English, four in math, four in science. But we need eight in social studies. Why? I said, I'll tell you why. because social studies is that part in school that teaches us all the great stuff that white people did for us. That's what you learn in American history. That's what you learn in global studies.

And that's why it's important for us to have all these courses. But after I've learned American history and global studies, how does that help me in the future? What job does that lay out for me? What I'm learning in math can lay out a job for me. What I'm learning in English can lay out a job for me. What I'm learning in science can lay out a job for me. What the hell am I learning in social studies that's going to lay out a job for me?

Not a goddamn thing unless I want to be a teacher. You know? My mother did this. That was her I want to slap the shit out of you but we're in front of people so I'm not going to you know what I'm saying? And my guidance counselor

he said I understand. And he looked out for me. Because, you know, I don't know, like, you know, back then, you know, you get a credit for government or law, not both. You get a credit for black history or Puerto Rican studies, not both. I got credits for both because he was looking out for me because he felt that I was a good student. Plus, I said, well, I'm on the loudspeaker in the morning,

official period, shit like that. So he was looking out for me. But still, I didn't have enough credits to make that eight. So yeah, I was close to failing. And then Melly Mel says, on Beach Street Breakdown, Dekai Outreach, Hiroshima, Vietnam, Lineagram, Iwo Jima,

Okinawa, Korea, the Philippines, devastating deaths by the killer machines. And I was like, I'll never be a dope MC if I don't know what the fuck he talking about and I damn sure don't know right now. And I went back to my guidance counselor, I'll take be a dope MC if I don't know what the fuck he talking about and I damn sure don't know right now. And I went back to my guidance counselor

and I said, I'll take American history. Shit that I oppose. I took it not because I wanted to learn American history, not because I wanted to learn global studies,

but I felt like if I learned this shit, I'd be able to rhyme like Millie Mill. Right. Hell yeah. That was awesome. What's on Daddy Kane Rider?

Like if a promoter books you What is the essentials That you need To do this show? Oh to do the show? Yeah like the rider I didn't know To do the show I just need a microphone

But after the show Yeah You know You know some sweet You know some nice grapes, you know. Okay. What do you prefer? Caymus? Opus One?

You going to do this again? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we got to do it on mic now. We did this off the mic. You know me or you. Nah. Well, I mean, like I explained to you before, I mean, with Caymus, you know, it's the year.

If you can still find a 2019 Caymus, amazing. The 2020, you know, but the 2019, amazing. But right now, I'm pretty much on Cade. That's Howell Mountain. How do you spell it, Cade? C-A-D-E, Cade. C-A-D-E. It's's Howell Mountain. How do you spell it? Cade? C-A-D-E. Cade. It's a Howell Mountain. It's like a younger version of Plum Jack.

Okay. Yeah, so if you don't want to spend all that money on a Plum Jack, yeah, the Cade I think is maybe like about $120 a bottle. But that's a good cab, an amazing cab. Okay.

Or like a nice Barolo. What? Barolo. It's Italian. Oh, look at this one. No, it's Italian. No, no, no. We had one.

Okay, okay. The last wine, the last bottle we opened. Okay, okay, okay. Because I got something that you put me on and your shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you get the Caymans? I got the Caymans and I believe the open. Okay, the bottle that I bought. Because I got something that you put me on and your shit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you get the Caymans? I got the Caymans, and I believe the Obex. Okay, the bottle that I bought.

Well, not bought. You bought everything. That's right. The bottle I ordered. The bottle I ordered. Yeah, yeah. That was a Barolo. Okay.

Yeah, but yeah, it's an Italian grape, but it's nice, medium-bodied, red. But, I mean, it's real smooth, yeah. So the promoters, if they got to book you, it's always a red? What else is on your rider that's like a little crazy? I don't got no white M&M's or no crazy shit

like that. No green M&M's? No, no, no. You got to stop that, EFN. What the fuck you mean? He only want the R's and M&M's. And yellow Skitt man. What the fuck you mean? You're the one with the Casey Snaps. He only went to RZNM. I don't listen to him. And Yellow Skittles. You know what I mean? So you don't got nothing like just the red skin off the apple?

You don't got nothing like that? No. Saquon ain't nothing crazy on the rider, right? Saquon, go up out. He ain't got nothing on the rider. He ain't got Jolly Rancers on his shit. No, ain't nothing crazy on the rider. He ain't got Jolly Ranchers on his shit. Nah, ain't nothing crazy on the rider, man. Has Kane ever had a stylist?

Yeah, for a brief moment, a brief moment. It's like, you know, I'm one of them dudes that like going out the box. And you know, sometimes, you know, stylists, you know, they might want to tone you down, but it's like, there's certain controversies I like, I enjoy. So it's like, if I wear something that's a little over the edge, there's a reason,

there's a method to my madness. It's like, I got this on. It look a little crazy. But it's like, watch your mouth. That's your doctor, brother. He's been holding you down all day. It look a little crazy, but the reason I'm wearing this is so that the guys will clown it and the women will defend me. You get it?

Yeah. So it's a method to the madness. You know what I'm saying? And it's like The women defending me They see it They like But it's not until the guy clowns me That they go public

Oh no you didn't You ain't gonna look that good in this here You don't know See that's when they go public And they go rampant. You know what I'm saying? You know, like Beyonce's Beehive. You know what I'm saying?

That type of thing. But it's like, you know, you got to get them there. You know what I'm saying? So it's stuff that I do on purpose, intentionally, you know. The Madonna book, was that a stylist who gave you the Speedos? No. I can't stand your idea, man. He wants gave you the Speedos? No. I can't stand your ass, man. He wants the bonus Speedos.

No, I've been sitting there patiently waiting for Norman's bullshit. I'm like, God damn, we've been here for a long time. He ain't said none of his bullshit yet. Nah, you know how low you came. Like, I've been waiting for this. Oh, my goodness. Nah, man. I'm going to be honest, man. I'm going to be honest.

And let me say this for you know, all the youngins and I know I've been critiquing the young people you know, all night, but I want to say something. You know, I'm honored to call you my OG. I'm honored to, you know, follow in your footsteps. I'm honored say something You know I'm honored To call you my OG I'm honored to You know following Your footsteps I'm honored To honor you

I'm honored to Show you how much You mean to the rap game Show you how much You mean to us Show you how much You mean to the culture This is a blessing man

To tell you to your face You know what I'm saying Face to face man To man Eye to eye man What you mean You know what I mean Thank you

It means everything to us man We all in a group chat Everyone man, what you mean, you know what I mean? Thank you. It means everything to us, man. We all in a group chat, everyone here. And if you could see how we were all excited, like we all in a group chat. I'm like, I was seriously looking at my barber like, you think I can get away with it? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like right now, you think I can get away with it? I said my shit, but see, I know myself.

My shit going to grow back like this. I'm going to have Cornel West on my ears, you know what I'm saying? On my eyelashes. I'm going to have motherfel West on my ears, you know what I'm saying? On my eyelashes. I'm going to have motherfucking buckwheat and all that on my joints. So I already learned my lesson, but I just want you to know, man, you are really an icon. You are really a legend. Something that Busta Rhymes said,

you know what I mean, when he won his BET Awards, he said, our icons, our legends got to look the part. And let me just tell you something. You always look the part. I've never seen you fall off. I've always seen you smooth. I something. You always look the part. I've never seen you fall off. I've always seen you smooth. I've never seen you hate on nobody. I've never seen you talk bad about nobody.

I always see you with the greatest, most phenomenal energy. And I just want to give it back to you always, my brother. And just in case, in case the people don't know, I'm just sitting there following you on Instagram. And I'm like, yo, you know, the show has got bigger. And I said, man, man I gotta give this brother

His flowers the proper way Not to say we didn't give you Your flowers before The proper way But the show has gotten Grew so much bigger So I reached out myself And we're gonna do it again

Hopefully And we're gonna do it again This is your platform If you wanna promote Pink toenails anytime That's his favorite thing To promote by the way Pink toenails

If you wanna promote Fucking coffee cups What is this shit What is this Coasters Coasters If you wanna We don't give a fuck,

this is your platform. You can come on here anytime you want. Motherfuckers, it's everyone. Put your hands together. Stand up if you can for Motherfucker Big Day.

Motherfuckers. Thank you so much, my brother. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production in association with Interval Presents. Hosts and executive producers, NORE and DJ EFN. From Interval Presents, executive producers, Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by yours truly, DJ EFN and NORE. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials. That's at Drink Champs across all platforms,

at TheRealNoriega on IG, at Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news and merch by going to drink champs dot com. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day.

On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways.

From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.