Drink Champs - Episode 390 w/ DMC

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode the Champs chop it up with the legendary, DMC from RUN-DMC!DMC joins us to share his journey. From the early RUN-DMC days to his solo career, DMC shares stories of Jam Master Jay, The Notorious B.I.G. and much much more! Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss! Listen as we continue to celebrate 50 Years of Hip-Hop!!Make some noise for DMC!!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 *Subscribe to Patreon NOW for exclusive content, discount codes, M&G’s + more:  🏆* https://www.patreon.com/drinkchamps *Listen and subscribe at https://www.drinkchamps.com  Follow Drink Champs: https://www.instagram.com/drinkchamps https://www.twitter.com/drinkchamps https://www.facebook.com/drinkchamps https://www.youtube.com/drinkchamps  DJ EFN https://www.crazyhood.com https://www.instagram.com/whoscrazy https://www.twitter.com/djefn https://www.facebook.com/crazyhoodproductions  N.O.R.E. https://www.instagram.com/therealnoreaga https://www.twitter.com/noreagaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Why is a soap opera Western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us.

It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. This season of Revisionist History, we're investigating everything from the secret behind the perfect nooks and crannies in Thomas's English muffins to the merits of Paw Patrol against its critics.

There's some things that really piss me off when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. My son watches Paw Patrol. I hate it. Everyone hates it, except for me. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's Drink Chats motherfucking podcast. Make some noise! He's a legendary Queens rapper. Hey, hey, it's your boy N.O.R.E.

He's a Miami hip-hop pioneer. One of his DJ EFN. Together, they drink it up with some of the biggest players. You know what I mean? In the most professional, unprofessional podcast. And your number one source for drunk facts. It's Drink Champs motherfucking podcast. Where every day is New Year's Eve.

It's time for Drink Champs. Drink up, motherfucker. What it good be? Hope you're doing good. This is your boy N-O.R.E. What up, it's DJ EFN. And this is military crazy war. Yappy hour, drink champs, yappy hour.

Make some noise! Now, when me and EFN started this show, we said that we wanted to highlight icons. We wanted to highlight legends. We wanted to highlight people who paved the way for us. Now, when we talk about this brother that we're about introduce in a lot of ways if it wasn't for him There might not be a drink champs because of of the DJ you following the DJ I following the MC and us, you know somewhat calling ourselves, you know a different version of them These these people have they come from my barrel. They come from my hood

One of my first inspirations. I remember me buying a fake leather jacket. It was pleather. I didn't know there was a such thing at the time. I put it on. It didn't feel right. I had to fake it, but I was trying to imitate them. I went and got gazelles. I went and did everything. I went and got the hats. I wanted to be like them. And in a lot of ways, if it wasn't for them, it wouldn't be me. There wouldn't be this show. These guys are legends.

They are icons. They are tycoons. They are the definition of hip hop. They are the definition of keeping it real. They are the definition of legends They're a definition of icons when I think of this when I think of these people That's who I got when I my dictionary when I look up icon That's who I see in case you don't know who the fuck we talk about we talk about the one the only motherfucking DMC Make some noise! Thank you, man. Thank you.

Yo, I ain't going to lie. This is crazy. What is this? Okay, I want to start with this. It's a comic book. This is a comic book? Yeah, yeah. Holy shit.

It's a comic book I made for a song that I did with Chuck D, Ice-T, and Jazzy Jeff. He produced by Bumpy Knuckles. Bumpy Knuckles, Freddie Fox. He didn't rap on this one. He didn't rap. He didn't want to. He was like, yo, I got Ice-T, Chuck D, and DJ Jazzy Jeff and DMC in the room. I don't need to be on there.

Because he was like a fan. He couldn't believe the moment. And the song inspired the comic book? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The song inspired the comic book, yeah. Because Bum was like, yo, you guys are my superheroes. Yeah, you guys are my superheroes. So let's make some noise for that. Let's make some noise for that.

So let's take it from the beginning, right? We just had Leo Combs on, right? Yep. And Leo Combs. Me and Leo used to share rooms. He was our road manager. Yes, he said. And he would only sleep with me because I was a neat, clean one.

So we had him on. And his claim to fame or his first thing in this music business was, he said, role managing you guys. Run DMC, yeah. And then I asked him, I said, how did you become role manager for Run DMC? And he said, simply because he had a passport. Yeah.

Was that how it happened? Well, yeah, because our first manager got fired. Oh, wow. And then we needed a role manager. And Leo was like, I'll do it. Right. And it was like, do you have a passport? But what was he prior to that?

Well, Leo was in LA. In the West Coast. Yeah, he did that. Promoting hip hop parties. Really? Did he have long hair? I feel like he had long hair. No, he was.

I don't know. No, he didn't have long hair. No, he was just a younger version with darker hair. But this guy, he had this hip-hop club in L.A. Wow. And once a week, he would throw hip-hop parties. So he booked Run DMC. And when he booked Run DMC, we played the show.

Ain't no jam after J, rest in peace. He was like, yo, come hang with us. So Leo just started hanging out with us. And then I think he booked us again, but here's what's crazy. After he booked Run DMC, because look, now he got Run DMC. You know what I'm saying?

I see this and that, but we were like the ones that had all the hope to part the Red Sea for hip-hop. So Leo was funny. Every day he would call Def Jam

after he booked Run DMC. What's going on? This is Leo. People hang up on him. He called back. There's a nag rustle, nag rustle, nag rustle. Yeah, for persistence. So what had happened was he just woke up one day and just came to New York, showed up at the office.

And he would go to Def Jam every day, show up at the office, this and that. And Russell was funny. Russell would just give him crazy shit to do, assignments, and he would make it happen. Right, right. So we had this, one of Jay's friends was a role manager, but he got fired because he was smoking crack on the plane. This is what crack was. This is what crack was.

This is what crack was. This is what crack was. But this is like when crack first came out. I don't know. Remember when crack first came out, he was smoking Woolies. Yeah, yeah. I was a kid. A lot of normal people, but when it started turning to crack, they was able to stop.

But in the beginning, but- Like dirty to me? Yeah. Jay's friend, road manager, was a crack fiend the first day he smoked it. He had to smoke it on a plane. So he got fired. But this was the time where you could smoke cigarettes on a plane? Yes.

Okay. I've been traveling since there was- And that shit made no sense because everybody's right there. I remember that. That shit was, remember? I was at Pan Am. Did you have Pan Am? And remember the other airline, USA Express?

Okay, okay, okay. Was directly to LA. Do y'all remember that? You would just take all your shit and get on a plane. So long story short, a manager got fired, and Leo was always around. First, he would call every day, and then he just came. He showed up. Just hanging at the office.

Now, for anybody listening, that's very aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. And that remote, too. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because look where he's at today.

He was a man on a mission. Yes. A man on a mission. So we needed a road manager. Leo, I'll do it. All right. And the question was, you had a passport. And then ever since then, that's how it's, you know what I'm saying? For me, it was like a role manager. Leo, I'll do it. All right. And the question was, you had a passport. And then ever since then.

Wow. That's how it's, you know what I'm saying? For me, it was like a blip. It was like Leo came to New York, was my role manager, shared movies with me. And then the next day, they called him an executive. Wow. Which is a beautiful thing. Now, when I signed the Def Jam, I remember me walking in the building.

I remember Irv Gottiy telling me he's like you signed the dev jam i said yeah he said well don't celebrate because you ain't win nothing i was like damn that was hard and then i went to leo's office right and leo had this picture in his office with a bloody nose and i say to leo did you have a fight he, no I did so much blow that night He said He was in a row with y'all A lot of coke A lot, a lot of coke Like a whole lot, a lot, a lot of coke

Wow And my man Combat Jack Uh-huh Rest in peace Yes, rest in peace Yes Great soul, this and that And Man Cal from Chicago

Okay Big radio journalistic personality. Me and Combat and Man Cal, we said, please people, little kids, boys and girls, don't take this the wrong way.

And he said it, Man Cal said it, and me and Combat, we verified this on his show. Yo, the coke in the 80s was real good. Did he say the coke in the 80s was real good. Did he say the coke in the 80s was real good? I'm keeping it. Right, for people to do it.

It was like they cared about the buyer. Did it influence the music? No, no, no. The coke was everywhere. For Leo to say that, that shit was everywhere. We used to just go to radio stations to give the program directors coke. I don't think it was even illegal when it first came on the scene because they didn't even know what it was.

It was an upscale social. It was champagne. Right. So, I mean, it's wrong for me to say this. So, it's like me saying, yo, the champagne back then was very good. Right. The champagne has gotten better. Yes, that's right.

But wait, Coke has gotten worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for Leo to say that Coke was everywhere, like it was everywhere, man. It was crazy. Oh, man, when we came here, when we came here on the Raising Hell Tour, we didn't sleep for three days

To Miami? Run to your seat, Houdini, LBC But Al didn't get high But the people that was doing it Yeah, LL was in the gym every morning Lyin' said he had It was hereditary Come on, his asshole

He said, I'll get it from my father. He didn't work out. He's nervous. He ripped like that. But, you know, the coke was everywhere. For Leo to say that, I sniffed a lot of coke. A whole lot of coke. All right.

Like, dad, I keep it real, too. I don't care where I'm at. Like, it could be at a high school. If you was able to go back and talk to the young Darryl McDaniels when you first started, DM, don't spend so much money on drugs. That's a lot of money. Probably half a million. No, not half a million.

$372,000 maybe. And sure, a lot was given to you for free. On cocaine. On cocaine. This makes no sense for your drug dealer. They got too much of his money. That's not making any sense. The UFC looked at me like

I'm not sure And I feel like cocaine's Going to come out the walls Right now For Leo For Leo Dissidia He sniffed out a lot of cocaine One of the things

That's so mysterious Is I might have lost This argument I never realized That you guys Wasn't on Def Jam yeah Rush I always

I always I didn't everybody we was on Def Jam we were Def Jam who wore the coats we that's what I'm trying to say

exactly from from what had happened what had happened I think Dr. Dre our Dr. Dre Ed Lovell Ed Lovell.

Ed Lovell was in the room when Russell went to go start Deft Ham. And it was basically, okay, Mr. Simmons, you know, Curtis managing. Why should we give you a record deal? All he did was just show a picture of the three baddest things in existence at the time. We was never able to get on Def Jam. Because world understand we were signed to Profile Records. Profile, yes. Y'all remember this before the albums?

This is on Profile. Profile Records, exactly. So he was always on Profile Records. So it was Rush Management. Right. Which eventually became Rush Management became Violator? I don't think so. Is that years?

It's years? Okay. No, Violator became a part of Rush Management. Yeah, that whole thing. But Run DMC was always on profile records. We came out on profile records with the Slytherin Suck MCs. Put the record out, it like that Suck MC's. Put the record out, it worked.

Suck MC's. Now, a lot of people think it was well, Rockbox was the first hip-hop video on MTV. And it wasn't Walk This Way. It's a tongue twister. Walk This Way, the first

rock rap record isn't Walk This Way. The first rock rap record is Rock way, it's a tongue twister. Walk this way, the first rock rap record isn't walk this way, the first rock rap record is Rockbox, which is the thing that put hip hop on MTV. But y'all record Rockbox. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. What I'm trying to say is, our abilities started with Sucker MCs, because if you remember hip hop, everything was very musical in the beginning of hip-hop.

A lot of bands playing that. Everybody would just sample the hot record on the radio. Oh, let's do heartbeat. R&B record, this and that. When R&B MC came along, we didn't use Good Times. We didn't use Ring My Bell. We fucking came with boom, tat, tat, tat, tat, and just a beat. And I remember

that year the record dropped hating my own record. What? Because everywhere I went, they were playing me. Which record? This is my talent now, DMC. Be careful. So what you was

doing is what I was doing for the Treacherous Three and the Funky Four. Those were the records that I want to hear. I don't want to hear my shit. Oh, okay. I get what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? So when my record started playing more than bands and flashing, it hurt me. It bugged me out.

Run knew what was going on because what people don't know, Run was a professional rapper at 15. He was the son of Curtis Blow. Run saw the business that exists now. From the inside, right. In his living room. As a kid, he would come downstairs and Curtis sleep on the chair. Jimmy Spicer's over there. Houdini's over there.

Grandmaster Flash. And Queens is in the crib. And Queens, because Rush Productions was a party. He was a party promoter. Right, right. And he would hire Flash and Bim. So Run saw hip-hop, what the world is seeing now, Run saw that in his living room before Rappers the Light Drop.

So Run was there. So Run knew the business and this and that. Run knew entertainment show business. Me, I'm just a fucking kid. Hearing this hip hop shit. Me and Run didn't meet until eighth grade. We didn't grow up together. My best friend growing up was this guy named Douglas Hayes.

That's who I ran with. And that's how I met Jay and that's how I met Hurricane. Jam Master Jay and Hurricane. You met Jam Master Jay before you met Run? Yes. Okay, continue. I met Jam Master Jay through DJ Hurricane, who was MC Hurricane down with Davey D and had a group called Solo Sounds out in Queens. But the thing growing up, what Run DMC is, was how Jam Master Jay and Hurricane was dressing in high school. Kane and Jay was going to school with the Garfather hats and the mock necks and the Adidas and the leather bling, in high school. So that's where our style came. But what I wanted to say about Suck MCs, when Suck MCs dropped, it was the game. And a lot of people in hip-hop say, yeah, that's true.

It was the game tape because it was just the beat. It was the tape. Right. We didn't want to do records. Me and Run had this thing. We make beat jams. We make what's on the Harlem World tape. We make what they're doing in the T-Connection.

You know what I'm saying? So when Suck Em Seats came, it was a game changer. Right. And then everybody said, oh, wow, you can do it. Because the greatest hip hop rappers in history, the greatest period in hip hop is the history before recorded rap. Now, I can say that because I lived it, I understand Are you talking mixtape rap? No, like the park jams?

The park jams, yeah. That's before rappers were like, before we started making records, that was the best period of hip-hop, which nobody even cares about now. They didn't even bring that shit up during the 50th year celebration of hip-hop. Because think about it,

the 50th year celebration of hip-hop only celebrated record-making motherfuckers. Yeah, they didn't. Not even fully. It wasn't the 50th anniversary. It wasn't the 50th. They said it was. It wasn't.

And I can say this. It wasn't the 50th anniversary of hip hop. It was the 50th anniversary of recorded records. Go back and look at all the things that happened. Crazy Legs said that on here. He said that, yeah. It wasn't about DJing, MCing, breakdancing, graffiti, and the whole, like, the whole

shit. So this is what I'm talking about. You said it wasn't or it was? It wasn't. It was only about motherfuckers that make records. Go back and look. The celebration of it is only... Look what happened in the Bronx. Yeah. Right. I want to see the fantastic fucking five. The party I did. We shut it down.

I didn't want to go. I was so happy watching y'all perform together. How long was that since y'all performed together? We was doing shows here and there. Okay, okay. I wasn't seeing it. Run DFC was only doing festivals. Okay, because I heard a rumor that you guys wouldn't perform together since Jam Master Jay had passed.

We didn't want to. Okay. But some of the checks were very nice. Yes, yes, yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was it. But what I wanted to say was, I can see it was just about making beat jams.

And we wanted to do, when we came in hip-hop, we knew we had a responsibility for this. Anything that is holy or sacred to a nation or community or a people will get diluted, polluted, and destroyed once it's commercialized. And a lot of the commercialization of that is very good. It's, you know, I'm saying financially and this and that for the expansion of it. MTV and us being on records

aided in the expansion of hip hop. Right. But if there was no music business, we still had hip hop. Right. So when Run DMC and Jam Master J showed up, we wasn't thinking,

yo, let's have hip records and get money and this and that. Run was doing it a little bit because you see how you've been these and stuff like that. But our thing was to be the best DJs and MCs that people would ever see forever.

Why? Because the people before us, that art form. The Melly Mells. Everybody only knows Melly Mel for the message. But I got tapes of Melly Mel and Scorpio when he was Mr. Ness

rhyming like me and Run. Nobody knows Melly Mel was Melly, M-E-L-E, M-E-L or Melly Mel y'all rock well with echo chambers and flash drop and beats and shit. Nobody knows that. I know that. That's why this record maker shit don't excite me.

So what you had to fuck you, you stupid triple platinum, that shit don't mean nothing but you didn't play Harlem world motherfucker Wow so me and Ron came from that we said we're gonna do and that aided in our success everything we did was we was imagining it was a cassette recording of a slide Wow so we wanted to make rhyme routines so when we did circumcised it gave permission everybody to oh shit we don't got the first rappers are the greatest rappers ever but what was their flaw they had no rappers to look up to so when the first rappers got into the music you gotta understand

what happened to our culture we were a culture that is eternal that never changes that innovation gets better and better as we grow. Right. Not that shit when you're 35 and 40, you can't rap. Is anybody going to go to Stevie Wonder? No. And say, Stevie, you're 50 now, you can't sing. Right, no. Is anybody going to go to Patti LaBelle and say, excuse me, Patti, you're 50, you can't.

Or Mick Jagger, neither. The Rolling Stones are going to have a fucking tour when they die. When they die when they die they're going to pump out the grit and go on broke them niggas are 105 right now so we knew right

so we knew that before the shit that was going on that we were doing before Rapper's Delight that's the fucking that shit

is fucking eternity they could never take that shit from us right so we said we're going to do that shit on records

and that's the thing that made Run DM Jay never used the DAP machine Journey could never take that shit from us. So we said, we're going to do that shit on records. And that's the thing that made Run DM. Jay never used the DAT machine. When we played live, hey, motherfuckers, that shit was vinyl on the turntables and that's rhyming. Yeah. So from Sucker C's to fucking Jam Master Jay when we did Hard Times, it's like that was Russell in the business.

You got to make a commercial record. So what we did with It's Like That, we took, because if you remember, the message came out first. So the message was the message. It's like a jungle sometimes, broken glass everywhere. But after that, hip hop Was able to say We can take y'all to where y'all need to go So BAM and Soul Sonic Force

Africa Band by the Soul Sonic Force They made Planet Rock So when we made it like that We said you know what we tired of shit being separate Let's put the message and The vision of Planet Rock We know a place where everybody's eating and it's safe. Let's do it in a like that.

So when we did that with Slick, if you listen to Planet Rock, we were trying to make, I mean, if you listen to Slick, we were trying to make Planet Rock. Zan, zan, zan, zan. But we wasn't good at it. Oh, shit. I would have never put that in. Nobody did that. You got me with that one. But we were just trying to make raw beats the way it was done in the streets.

If you listen, you know what's the key to Run DMC's success? It's like comic book Easter eggs. It was right up under your nose when we made Adidas. We took the beat from the street and put it on TV. As it is, in its form, no explanations to this shit. Take the beat, put it on, DJ it. But by us doing that, what the fuck were you? Nobody had never seen what we did in hip hop.

They couldn't believe it. Because the people before us that created it didn't do it. Right. You know what I'm saying? Mel and Kaz and all of them was mad at us. Right. When we first came out. Wait, what do you mean?

We was fucking, who the fuck is this? And they had on spikes. Who the fuck is these motherfuckers from Queens with this badass attitude? And they had on spikes, but you understand, that's what I wanted to say to you, Nori. The first MC, the first hip-hoppers in the game had no hip-hoppers to look up to. But who were their idols in show business? Rolling Stones, Rick James and Funkadelic So because they're coming Into the music business

And a lot of people do this In all forms of art In all forms of creativity Now I'm in this Hollywood bullshit So I gotta change who I am But they rightfully so Because what did I say When I first walked in there

This is like soul training Right, right, right Because this is what Y'all are my Mike Douglas show. I don't think y'all that young. Mark Griffin show? So that's what y'all are today. You know what I'm saying?

When the first hip hoppers got into hip hop, there was no fucking cool motherfucker because they were the cool motherfucker. But because it was show business, I need to dress like Bam and I need to dress like and we came doing the shit that they created, Russell being the showbiz guy, entrepreneur, you know what I'm saying? He's hitting me and run every minute.

Y'all need stage clothes. Y'all need it too. Y'all need to get, me and Roma was like, yeah, we do, Russell, but we ain't wearing that shit. But is it true that he told y'all to dress like the drug dealers from around the way? No, he didn't say. Who? Russell? it true that he told y'all to dress like the drug dealers from around the way? No, he didn't. Who? Russ or Jam Master Jay?

He wanted us to. Our look came from this. There's a famous picture of me and Ron at the Fever with checkered jackets on, no ants. Y'all might have seen this. Me and Ron, no Jay. The way you're going like this. Look at his face. Is that how you sound from? Yeah. Look at his face. He looking bitchy.

Is that how you sound from? Yeah, we didn't know. Yeah, yeah. He didn't tell us every shit. Now Russell got us at the fucking fever. So what I used to do, I used to go in my farmer closet. Oh, shit. Okay, take this suit, Jack.

I had no fucking money in this. Right, right. So what had happened once when we put Jay down as the DJ, Jay's not in that picture because our first show at the Fever, our first show at the Fever, Jam Master Jay missed it because he went down to Jamaica Avenue to shop for gear.

Rebel Knox, Central, EIM. So he didn't know about this thing called Soundcheck. So we played a Fever at 6.30. We had to leave, Jay. So Jay cried all night, he said. So the second time we played the fever, Jay wasn't going to be late. But when we pull up

to pick up Jay, like in the beginning, I was wearing Pumas at shows in the beginning. Blue Puma, blue with the white stripes, black laces. Okay, cool. Blue suit jacket and Kangol. I was wearing Kangol.

Right. Ryan was just his curly hair, sideburn, fly. Right. You know what I'm saying? Sexy motherfucker look. So this show, we pull up to Jay's house on 230 Hollis. And Jay, we beep the horn for Jay and Larry Smith, the greatest hip hop producer ever that nobody knows about.

Larry Smith, who held down four decades, I mean four years of hip-hop by himself. He produced a whole Run DMC album by himself. He produced a King of Rock album by himself. And he produced Houdini's groundbreaking album, Fringe Freaks Come Out at Night 5, by himself. So Larry Smith needs a movie. Right. And he needs a movie. Right. And he needs a documentary. Right.

And he fucking needs a fucking Rock and Roll Hall of Fame award. Right. Talk to Dre. Talk to Premier. Talk to Dr. Dre. Talk to Pete Rock. Talk to these DJs, Larry Smith.

Right. Our success was on Larry Smith. Right. So long story short, we pull up to Jay's house. He comes out the front door of his crib. He got the Godfather hat on, right? He gots the black with the white stripe Adidas jacket on.

He gots the black Lees on. He gots the brand new white superstars with the black stripe on the side. And the tongues are sticking up like tombstones. And he got the four-speaker JVC box. As soon as he stepped on his stoop, before Russell said, that is your me and Rem was like, that's our look.

So Jay was not only the sound, he was the fucking stylist of Run DMC. Me and Rem was all over the place. Wow. All over the place. You said your first was a seersucker, a checker. All type of shit.

But I was a cool motherfucker, though, because I knew BVD nylons. BVD? I was that motherfucker. Oh, BVD? Yeah, I used to wear BVD. I used to sweat a lot, though, so I used to be like...

Yeah, they were the worst for that. But BVD, I had my red BVDs and all of that shit. But Minion Run was all over the place until Jay came along and brought us together. Jay brought it all together. Now, was the gazelles a part of that? This is funny. I love this.

Because you said you never knew we wasn't on Def Jam. You're going to find something else out. I never wore gazelles. The glasses I wore were Ultra Goliaths. They had the shape of the gazelles, but I never wore gazelles. Go back and look at all my pictures. Really? And Leo had something to do with the Ultra Goliaths.

Before the Ultra Goliaths, they were just my basic Cohen lenses that I was wearing to school. Whoa. And Run was actually the guy that told me to wear the glasses because I went to Catholic school my whole life. Right. So I'm funny. I was always in the smart class. Run was always in the other class because it was like 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 2-2. It was only two grades for each class.

So Run was always in the other class. I didn't know run. The only reason I knew run and knew me is that when they do the roll call in the morning and they sounded the students' names, you know, I said, Deborah Hamilton. So the whole school looks, oh shit, that's Deborah. That's how you identify. So I remember one day it was Joseph Simmons. Everybody,

oh, that's Joey the curly-haired motherfucker. And then John McDaniels, oh, the big-haired motherfucker with the glasses on. And then John McDaniels, oh, the big-headed motherfucker with the glasses on that read comic books and know how to draw. Right. So what had happened in eighth grade, this is how me and Run ran. In eighth grade, we went to St. Pascal Baylon Elementary School. It was the last Catholic school in the hood of Hollis.

Wow. The nuns and the priests said, we can't give up on the black kids. We're going to stay here for them. And they trooped it. We had a cool fucking basketball coach named Farva Rudlaw who fucking left the priesthood because he found a black woman in a hood. So shout out to Farva Rudlaw.

You know what I'm saying? He was like, I ain't trying none of this Pope shit and stuff like that. Comrades abusing the kids and shit like that. So I'm going to go out and get me some. So we had one rim in the back in the schoolyard. And for the Catholic school kids, you couldn't go nowhere unless you went home and put on your play clothes. Because in your uniform, yo, take your money, smack you upside your head.

Kids are fucking mean. They would take other kids' shoes just to fucking take them and all that. In eighth grade, David McGeechern comes to St. Paschal's and he's like 6'3".

He dunks on the rim and breaks it. All of Catholic school, we cried. Because we can't Cause we're poor Hold up y'all I got the best parents In the world Son of Byford

Brother of Al Banner's my mother Runs my pal It's McDaniels Not McDonald's These Roms are Daryls Those burgers are Ronalds I ran down my family tree

My mother and father My brother and me I had the best parents In the world My father put a rim In the backyard So now Don't cry, kids.

The McDaniels family got your back. Now all the kids after school can come to my house, which is like a five-minute walk from school. So every day after school, it's about 30 kids from school playing ball. One particular day, it's just Joseph Simmons alone with his basketball. Comes over. I'm like, yo, we're Doug. We're Craig. Doug got to go to the dentist.

Craig is on punishment. Okay, it's just me and you. So we like, yo, we're Doug. We're Craig. Doug got to go to the dentist. Craig is on punishment. Okay, it's just me and you. So we play ball, right? One-on-one. Play one-on-one. I need to know who won this. Run. He was running. Run and Jay were the ballers. I just played, like, you know. Well, I'm trying to be cool. I'm a comic book reading nerd. I'm trying to

fucking fit in. You know what I'm saying? I'm only playing ball for the same reason that I started fucking smoking weed and became an alcoholic. No, I didn't. I said no. So we played ball. And we would get out of school 2-10. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and MeatEater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time. Have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them.

From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1,

Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month

and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us

also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh, you know, I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing.

I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T., connecting changes everything. My mother and father, they get home from work at 4 p.m. So when you was little, what was the rule when your parents wasn't home? No company. Yeah, no company, that's right. Can't no company.

So what I usually do is, when we finish playing ball, I'll go and get the jug of water. And you remember Dixie Cups. Are they still in business? Yeah. You sure? If they're not, I'm going to be Darryl Makes Cups. Bring back fucking cups. Don't wear disposable cups.

Is Dixie still in business? Yeah. That's how I did the cookies and comic book. I would just say shit and motherfuckers would say, do that shit. And I'd say, okay, I'll do it. So Run is the only kid there. So instead of bringing the water to him, I'd say, come in the house. So he comes in the house.

He sees my brother's turntables. And he goes, yo, do you do that? And I go, no. Because hip hop to me was my little secret thing. But then he goes, yo, my brother's Russell Simmons. This and that. He starts laying out the 411. And Russell Simmons goes, you know, my brother's Russell Simmons, this and that. He starts laying out the 411. And Russell Simmons was known at this time?

Huge. Okay, go ahead, continue. Huge. Rush Party, he was like, do you own the telephone poles? You ever see the flyers and the posters of the Rush Party? So Russell was huge. Russell was known for that. Russell was getting money, you know, back then.

He was like, I'm the son of Curtis Blow. So what we would do is, before my mother and father would come up, we'd play one game of basketball and then go in the basement and DJ. So that's how he knew that I had skills. So when he was going to make a record as a solo artist, because he was the son of Curtis Blow, Curtis Blow put out the breaks.

The first Christmas record, do y'all know before Christmas in Hollis, it was a famous Christmas rapping. Yeah, Christmas rapping. Yeah, Christmas rap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Run was always in Rusty, and let me make a record, let me make a record, let me make a record, let me make a record. Rusty was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're too young. You're too young, too young.

So Joe was persistent, and Rusty says this to Joe. Okay, Joey. That's what Rusty wanted to get his man. Okay, Joey, you show me a high school diploma, I'll let you go in the studio and make a record. So, Rumble was like, okay, I'll remember that. He was in, what, 10th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, 12th grade. Here you go, Russell.

So, Rumble's going in the studio to make a record. He remembered the kid with the big head and the glasses and the comic book DMC, Daryl McDaniels, got some rhymes. So, he calls me up, puts me in a group. That's what got me sitting here today. It wasn't like I wanted to do none of this shit. I wrote rhymes for me, Noreen.

Not for you to hear them shit. That's crazy. Man, I didn't want nobody. That shit was like my diary. So you telling me this damn near happened by accident. Run had a chance to go solo. Run had a chance to go solo. He had a chance to do whatever. He had a record court.

He came over my house. He would come to my house and play me tapes. Yo, last night I was with Julu Nation. Last night I was with the Crash Crew. Shout out to the Crash Crew, one of the greatest groups in hip hop that they always forget about. He would show me these tapes of stuff. So I'm a fan and he's doing it.

So I'm looking at him in awe and respect because he was with Flash last night. You know what I'm saying? When he was going to make his record, he had a record called Street Kid. I'm just a street kid. Street kid.

I'm just a street kid. Remember kid. I'm just a street. Remember how rap used to be? That's just not your work right now. Trying to make it in the groove. And the music would play and shit like that. And he had his whole record and run out of his whole raps. And I was like, go Joe, and whatever, whatever. But then he said, nah, fuck that. DMC.

I wasn't DMC. I was EZD. EZD. They used to call me EZD because I rapped on a mic so easily. But now they call me... I didn't become DMC until Run put me in a group because then I had to go up another level.

But that's a whole other story. So Run was going to be a solo artist, had a record and everything. Was his name Run? Yeah, it was DJ Run. DJ Run. But then when he was about to go in to get the deal,

he said, nah, putting my man down. And he called me up and he was like, yo, D. And he told me this in eighth grade. D, whenever Russell lets me make a record, I'm putting you in my group. Now, I remember when he said that shit to me, it was like a foreign language. The fuck you talking? I don't do this shit. You moe, y'all motherfuckers do this.

And you said, watch. So this was eighth grade. Ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, 12th grade. We went to totally different schools. Run and J went to

Andrew Jackson, including. AJ, known for the ball and shit like that. I went to a school called Rice High School. Called what? Rice High School. 124th Street

in Lenox Avenue. It was an all-boys Catholic school. Paramemorial Rice High School. Called what? Rice High School. 124th Street and Lenox Avenue. Oh, I'm telling you. Old Boys Catholic School. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Power Memorial Rice High School. So during that time, Joe is getting his deal together. I'm just in Rice High School. But the beautiful thing for me, what happened to me is the reason why I'm so passionate about hip-hop. I understand there's a dichotomy with our culture now.

There's the music business, and then there's the culture. I'm 150,000% culture that just happens to me in the music business. So that's why I didn't talk that much in the beginning. I'm just going to say my rhyme and go the fuck home. So what happened to me was this though, Noreen and E. I get to Rice High School.

It's 124th Street in Harlem. All boys, Catholic high school. Congregation of Irish Christian brothers. But what is so unique about this? Now, I don't know what's about to happen to me. This is purpose and destiny. I just go to Rice because my best friend Doug told me we're going to Rice, motherfucker.

Okay. So I get to Rice, but I get to Rice. The boys and girls, the boys, because of the old boy school, they would go to Rice. They're from the Bronx. They're from Harlem, from Manhattan. So when I get to Rice in ninth grade, they got all of the performances of hip hop before Rapper's Delight. So Terrence Washington would come at the end of every school week with a cassette tape holder, open it up, and he would sell the tapes like it was drugs. And it would be in the school, in the school, in the school.

And what was beautiful about the congregation of Irish Christian brothers, to connect with the black kids, this is a lesson for the educational system about they let us do our hip hop. They let us do our graffiti. They wanted our, right on, do all that shit. And by letting us do that, we had great students. Wow. No trouble. The troublesome kid was a straight A student because he got to rhyme and beat on the table. He got to do his art.

But Terrence Washington would have, you know, Funky 4 Plus 1, 1979. Wow. Curtis Blow, 1977, when Curtis Blow was Flash MC. Oof. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 4. Because Raheem wasn't in the group yet because Raheem was a member of the Funky 4. So I'm saving my allowance because I didn't have a job and I'm buying all of these tapes. So from 9th grade to 12th grade, I'm getting a first-hand course on how

to be this hip-hop shit. Not how to do it. How to be the shit. So, long story short again, 12th grade, I'm graduating. Sent out my resume to all the schools. I get home

from college. There's no emails back then. I'm still using payphones, all the schools. I get home from... To college school? Oh, okay. Yeah. There's no emails back then. You know what I'm saying? They're still using pay phones, all that shit. There's a letter. It says St. John's University on it. I open up the letter. We're proud to inform you, Mr. McDaniels.

And I felt good that they called me Mr. You know what I'm saying? Like, whoa, what's in it? But I was also scared because that means I got to grow up. Right. Mr. McDaniels. And St. John scared because that means I got to grow up. Right. Mr. Big Doge. And St. John's is still in Queens, correct? Yeah.

It's still there. It's still there. Fucking Lucana Secker and fucking Walter Berry. Yep. I said, oh, shit. I got accepted to St. John's University. I run past my mother and father with the letter, down into the basement to my turntables, put on a patchy, and I write my rhyme. I'm DMC.

Not go, because I wasn't in yet. I'm going to St. John's University. Since kindergarten, I acquired the knowledge. And that was just for my book. Then I walked back upstairs. Wait, wait, tell him he's going to your back. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

We just got to play by play. So you got the college letter, and you go downstairs, he's going too fast. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We just got to play by play on how he wrote that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So you got the college letter, and you go downstairs, and you premeditate. And write a rhyme, bro. Holy shit. And an iconic line, too. That's iconic. Word, word, word.

That's iconic, bro. Get to you. I'm so sorry. So man, I go back upstairs. Mom, I got accepted to St. John's University. Well, it's again in St. John's University and stuff like that. The phone rings. It's Joe. Run. in St. John's University and stuff like that. The phone rings. It's Joe.

Run. The same day. No, not the same day. I get in. This is probably like the first week because I'm in orientation for college. It's Joe. Yo, what's up, D? Remember four years ago when I said if Russell lets me make a record?

Yeah. Grab your rhyme book. We're going to make a record, yeah, grab your rhyme book. We're going to make a record. We go to Green Street Recording Studio. Damn, I remember Green Street. We make it like that in sucker MCs. Russell goes around the labels. Every label tells him no except this one independent called Profile Records. Wow.

Profile Records takes a chance with us. Here I am today. Make some noise for Profile Records. God damn it. Holy shit. How crazy is that? And then we make singles. records takes a chance with us, here I am today. Make some noise for Porn Power Records, God damn it. Holy. How crazy is that? And then we made singles. Remember, hip hop was just singles.

Right. So then we made another single called Hard Times Jam Master J. And that's why I brung Russell in with the commercial thing. And you do them all the way to the interview. Because we had this like that.

Everybody say I do that. They do it all the way to the interview. Everybody say I do that. So we made Hard Times. Check this out. This is how deep this shit is. We made Hard Times. Check this out. This is how deep this shit is. We made Hard Times, which is a Curtis Blow song. It's one of the first hip-hop remakes.

We heard it. Cover song, right? Yeah, it was a cover song. Curtis Blow had a song called Hard Times on his album where he rapped it. We took it and did it in Slykden style. But at that time, when we made it in it's like that Suck em' Seas. We didn't have Jay yet. That's why the group's just run the MC.

So after we put it, it's like that Suck em' Seas out, the record's getting hot. It's blowing up on the radio. Suck em' Seas is killing the street. And it's like that. It's becoming a hit across the nation. But people thought we was an R&B group. Oh, shit. No way.

They thought we was that kind of like the Timex social club type group. We go on the shows, we're opening for Marvin Gaye. God damn it. We're opening for Parliament Funkadelic.

God damn it. We're opening for ZZ Top. How was the reception in the audience? How were they? I tell you, we had 20 minutes.

We was open for the Bar K's and Confunction and the Gap Band and all that shit. So we had 20 minutes on these big open for the barcades and confunctions and the gap band and all that shit. So we had 20 minutes on these big stages. The only rap group. You're the only rap group.

The only rap group. And that is because it's like that. It's on the radio. It's like that. So they thought we was a band. Russell was getting his calls and then he sent us. We'd show up at sound check. Me, Larry Smith, Run, and Jay were two turntables and a record bag.

That's amazing. And they wouldn't let us in. Because they didn't see all the equipment coming with it. We run DMC. Knocking three and four times where the bouncers go, motherfuckers, if you knock on this fucking door.

But we'll run DMC. Go get the fucking promoter. The promoter came in the door. But the promoters, we was getting like... Because they didn't know how y'all looked. It was an album cover. It was no album cover. It ain't no thing.

Makes sense. Yes. So you understand what time this was. This was crazy and the promoters would always go, you mean to pay?

I'm paying you $2,500. That's a lot of money. And that's a lot of money? Yeah. The promoters be like, we paying you $2,400 just to play records? We say, yep.

So you want to know what the reception is? We got 20 minutes. All right. Jay go out there. Ladies and gentlemen, run DMC. Crowd is like, okay, we're the fucking band. Yo, what's up, y'all? My name is Jam Master Jay.

Boom, boom, boom. Put your hands in the air. Boom, boom. Somebody say run. Call me. Call DMC. I'll call run out. Yo, killing them.

Killing them to the point where sometimes the whole audience, we have 20 minutes during the Marvin Gaye show. No, no, bring them back on. We want to see more. How crazy is that? Hell yeah. That must have felt amazing, though. It felt fucking crazy amazing. And we was opening up for fucking Marvin in Parliament.

Yo, it's crazy. So that's also where our great showmanship came in. We was like, yo, this audience is loving this shit that we do. So we're not trying to be the best entertainers. We're trying to be the best DJs and MCs motherfuckers we've ever seen. Which set up all of that exhilaration and influence for everybody following us right you know i'm saying because now if we are but when we was doing that we knew damn we representing the fucking culture right and jave was like we always got to watch what we say and

we would never go for any fake shit no No fucking saran wrapping, no parody shit. We always got to be live. It was a huge responsibility. It was so dope. I'm sorry to bounce around. It was so dope to see you and Run on stage. And then it was even more passionate. And it almost made me feel like my childhood because he distinguished that this is not Reverend Run on stage.

Right, right. He started cursing. I was like, oh, shit. No, everybody do that. Yeah, every year. You know what I'm saying? Like, to see that, and it was like my childhood, you know what I mean? No, right.

I could understand that. Yeah, like, I just was like, it felt so right, like, to see y'all together, you know what I mean? And the way you want to see us. Yeah, exactly. And headlining goddamn Yankee Stadium for 50 years. No, me, before we went on, I was like, yo, D, I guess we did something. All these motherfuckers is wanting us to go on. Yes.

That's what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Make some noise for that. And, you know, it's just the thing that we feel that that thing that makes Snoop, that thing that makes Scarface is the thing that might not have been there if it wasn't for Randy MC. Yeah, that's a fact. It would have died with Flash in him. Right. Even to the point where, like I said, Flash and Mel and Orlin was mad at us until they started seeing our interviews.

We would talk about them. And when you say they was mad at you, you say because of the commercial appeal that you guys was- Because of Chaney, the shift that they created. Yeah, we chained to this shit. We came with fucking Adidas and Tangles and Goldberg. And you could go find pictures of Mel and them with sheepshins and shit like that. Even Kaz always says, damn, man, if we'd have put those routines on records. Right.

1981, and before his year is done. Yo, them motherfuckers had it, it was crazy. Right. Kaz said, and this is good for this time. What'd he say? Anyone can write a rap. He said, this is what a rapper should be saying now.

He said, anyone can write a rap and say yes, y'all, but a real MC. You do not call because you can't write a rhyme at a quarter to two to be a real MC before the jam is through. For all you MCs that are like that, you got to take a lesson from the good old cap. You need a voice that is clear. A DJ like Chase. A good imagination and a strong, steady pace. You got to have both feet

on the ground and you can't be a duck. You got to be down. You got to represent the hood at all times. Plus, you got to have tough and original rhymes. Put all that together

and you know what it brings, the grandmaster. And I'm a running thing. So J.D.L. got over Big B. So we was like, we're going to do that shit. that together and you know what it brings the grandmaster and i'm a running thing so jdl got over big b so we was like we're gonna do this shit we're not fucking doing no you know you're really influenced by them that's the thing you made the shift but it was influenced by them yes we we um peter piper picked peppers rum rock rock it was a party night everybody was come on imagine if that was mel in a national record before the message then it would be It was a party night, everybody was... Come on.

Imagine if that was Mel and the National record before The Message. Then they would be able to be doing that record and then The Message. So that's why when we came along, we didn't want to separate what hip-hop is. You know what I'm saying? Even Moe D, before he battled L, most people know Moe D from when he was a recording artist. You know what I'm saying? But before that, Moe D and the motherfuck a recording artist. You know what I'm saying? But before that, Moe D and the motherfuckers was beasts. You know what I'm saying?

It's like the old school isn't a time period. The old school is a consciousness of how you present yourself. And that could be as a DJ, could be as an MC, could be as a graffiti artist. Could be as a break dancer. But if you break it down, could be as the music. Could be as the language. Could be as the art. Or could be as the fashion of it. So we knew we always got to be those elements. Wow. Let me ask you something.

Because at one point, when you hear Eric B. and Rakim, the DJ came before the act. And the DJ was so much important. And then at some point, it almost seemed like the DJ was obsolete. Yeah, nobody cares about the act. And the DJ was so much important. And then at some point, it almost seemed like the DJ was obsolete. Nobody cares about the DJ no more. As opposed to your era where the DJ came first. Every minute. I was going to say we made hard times, right?

So now we doing all of these shows. Barcades. Barcades. Function. And this and that. So the question is, okay, I know that's Run and that's DMC. Or, okay, I know that's Run, and that's DMC. Or, okay, that's Run, that's D. Where's M, where's C, where's the B? So there was confusion.

It was C, Run, DMC, and it's three people on stage. Who's that back there? Why is that guy back there? Oh, y'all need to know what this shit is doing. So Run put me in the group because all I did was eat, sleep, hip hop. All I did, eat, sleep, hip hop, tapes, who's the new tape, who's the new song. He hated me because I would listen to the corny shit. But I wasn't trying to let anything get right exactly. I was like, this shit is on the record.

There's got to be some reason why this shit be on the record. It might not even have been the rap. It might have just been the beat or the sound. So I was like the scientist of the group. So everybody was asking me, why is it three people? Don't worry, Jay, I got you. When we put Jay first down, he was Jazzy Jay. Jazzy Jay.

He can't be Jazzy Jay. I go to Rice. Jay, you can't be Jazzy J I'm like I go to Rice Jay you can't be Jazzy J That's biting What You know and Jay So you know Jay's case

I mean that's weird Motherfucker I'm like That's biting You can't do that Don't worry Jay I got you So I went home

And I was like Okay what we gonna call Jay I was like okay If you remember The jam Had two meanings Back then Yo DJ going to call Jay Samson. If you remember, the jam had two meanings

back then. Yo, DJ, play my favorite jam. That's right. Or that jam last night. I'm sitting there, oh my God, Jay's the master of it all. And it just so happened his name was Jay. So when I say he's going to be, he can't be the

grandmaster. We got a bunch of those motherfuckers around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He definitely can't be Grand Wizard. Like, you can fuck with Grandmaster. Right. You've got Grand Wizard and you've got Grand Mixer. I'm like, my whole thing is,

I've got to take, even now at 59 years old, we've got to take hip-hop one more step than nobody has done. So I was like, we're going to name him the Jam Master. So I go back to Jay and holler, show Jay, I got it, drum roll. we're going to name him the Jam Master. So I go back to Jay and Hollis. Yo, Jay, I got it. Drum roll.

Your name is going to be the Jam Master Jay. You see the way that hit? Jam Master Jay. And then Jay is funny. He says it to himself. Like, this is going to be in a movie. The actor playing Jay

got to go, Jam Master Jay. And then you shoot, you shoot. Motherfucker went out and got a JMJ belt. You know what I'm saying? JMJ chain. You know what I'm saying? JMJ chain.

You know what I'm saying? So all of the, it's like you say, all of the pieces were just falling in place. Wow. And you used to DJ as well? Before Run came in my basement, I had every Marvel comic book in existence. All right. Stanley, shout out to Stanley. No, I'm going to tell you existence. All right. Stan Lee. Shout out to Stan Lee.

No, I'm going to tell you why. My brother still got his. Stan Lee created DMC. His crazy. Stan Lee and Nicole Crush created DMC. But I had a huge con. All I used to do was read, collect, draw. Read, collect, draw.

Batman, Flash, Green Lantern were all cool. But what was bad about DC was, like, I don't like fake shit. I hate fake shit. So DC was cool as superhero, but DC had a fake Metropolis and a fake Gotham. I'm trying to be New York. Stan Lee blew my fucking mind. He put the superheroes really into New York. Yeah. Right. So my fucking mind. He put the superheroes really into it. Yeah.

Right. So that shit is real to me. Yeah, Spider-Man was from Woodside, Queens. Spider-Man fucked it. Yeah. Glory, I wasn't shouting out Queens my whole record career to rep the fucking hood. I was shouting that because Spider-Man comes from where I come from. Peter Parker.

When I found that shit, I was like, oh, shit. You know how under the hood was? Yes. Yes, that's real. That's real. That's real. I was like, oh shit. You know how under the goodwill? Yes, that's real. You know what I'm saying? That's real. I'm not a hood dude. I don't know that shit. I can't leave the block.

Right. But all I did was recollect and draw comic books. So when hip hop came over the bridge from the Bronx, my brother's older than me. Right. 15. The kid's 15 to 18 years old. All of a sudden, everybody's getting turntables in Queens, in my neighborhood.

And I remember Anthony Wallace was the first of my brother's friends to get turntables, but he had the makeshift set, he had the BSR turntable, but the other Mitch Match one from your mother's Hi-Fi stereo set. Anthony was dope, he would take all the speakers and make his own sound system. So he had a creative record, he had all that BAM shit.

You know what I'm saying, I used to call it BAM shit. I didn had a Crater Records, he had all that Bam shit. I used to call it Bam shit. I didn't know what it was. And then Boobie Long, my brother's other friend, see Boobie had it better than me and my brother because you couldn't get no turntables back in the days if you didn't sell

reefer. Reefer's marijuana, guys. I'm trying to put people there. You don't sell reefer. Why? Weepers marijuana, guys. All right, cool. I'm trying to put people there. You don't sell reefer, you're not a stick-up kid. You don't rob houses, and you don't steal cars. So me and my brother, we Catholic school, you know, suburban Queens motherfuckers, we ain't got no money. But then my brother goes, yo, and it was for him he comes to me

one day yo daryl man he's weed but it's really him we gotta get turned right and he's like looking around the fucking attic at my shit and i'm like oh no weed oh mother he's like yo come on man we gotta get turntables this hip hip-hop shit, you know, everybody's doing whatever, whatever. So I give in. So we do a comic book sale. Oh, shit. Now, check this out. This is seventh grade before run even came play ball. We do a comic book sale.

The McDaniels brothers is doing a comic book sale. So the doorbell was ringing all day. All we need to do is get one turntable because we had a highfive system, and a $40 Gemini mixer, up and down one. Remember the lowest one? It didn't even have a crossfade. So we got to get that. The doorbell's ringing all day. Kids from my neighborhood, kids from my school.

Doorbell rings, it's Joseph Simmons, the other kid from another class. Comes in with his friend Harold. He buys comic books and he goes home. I mean, a year later that happens. So we buy the turntables. We get the turntables in the basement. Everybody's DJing, right? So I hear a Grandmaster Flash tape of him spending good times.

You know what I'm saying? When I'm 14 years old. So I hear this Grandmaster Flash tape. The thing that caught my eye was Flash in the comic book. This motherfucker names himself

Flash. Attention now. You know what I'm saying? It probably was always there because it was blocked. Not Flash Gordon though, right?

Not Flash Gordon, but Flash in the comic book which was my connection with that. So I hear Grandmaster Flash tape and he's spending good times, good times. Boom, boom.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Now, usually prior to the hip-hop, the DJs at the block parties were the older DJs who would just play the records all the way through. Right. Play the record all the way through. So I'm hearing this Flash tape, these good times, break comes, then it comes again. Now, there's no video of this shit. then it comes again. Now there's no video of this shit,

it's just on the box playing. And it does it again, good time, good time, and he makes it go good, good, good, good, good. I'm like, I gotta learn how to do that shit. So my brother,

when we brought the turntables, he tells me- Is that scratching, you say? No, that came- No, he's bringing back the beat. My brother, who used my comic books to get this turntable, tells me, this is big brother shit.

Yo, when I'm not home, don't touch my turntable. I'm looking at an empty attic. And I'm like, what the fuck? He mean my turntable? I don't say this. I'm just thinking this shit. But did I let him know? And he sold your comic books to get it here.

Every time he would leave, I would go in the basement. And I'm trying to figure out how Flav do that shit. So like Step Brothers. You see the movie Step Brothers? Yeah, I would go down in the basement and do a touch of shit. So I learned to DJ good times. I learned to DJ super sperm soup, soup, soup. I learned to DJ Paradise is very nice.

You're learning the routines, basically. Yeah, I got nice. So in my basement, Nori, before I was MCEZD, because the MCM shit didn't come yet. I didn't hear that shit yet. I was Grandmaster Get High in my basement. Grandmaster Get High? Yeah, because you didn't need refuel.

Somebody need to call themselves that right now. That shit is hard. You didn't need refuel or alcohol to get intoxicated because my music would intoxicate you. So I was Grandmaster Get High. So when Joe came in my basement, I showed him what Grandmaster Get High could do. Me writing rhymes to where Joe discovered it when he started hanging with me came about because of this. I had heard Spoonie G.

Spoonie G. From Philly, right? No, Spoonie G. Spoonie G. Spoonie G. From Philly, right? No, Spoonie G. Spoonie G. Spoonie G. Boom, boom, boom. You say it one for the, oh, yes, yes, y'all.

A freak freak, y'all. And I was driving down the street on a stormy night, and then up at the head, it was a terrible fight. It was a big fight. So I heard Spoonie G's first one with the whistle,

and the bass, boom, boom, boom. So I had heard that. Still didn't care about it yet. Then right after I heard that, I heard Rappers Delight. So everybody is getting turntables, and all of a sudden this record, Rappers Delight, is everywhere. But I still didn't care until I hear Big Bang Hank's rhyme about Superman. Oh shit. Like I didn't care about hip hop,

because people, Moe D talks about this too. At that time I didn't know this, there was an older hip hop and a younger hip hop. There was the DJ Hollywoods and the Eddie Cheebers and the Pete DJ Jones and those dudes. There was the disco DJ rapping man clap your hands I'm in the disco

it was all disco disco I'm a rapping man and I'm a hassle it was those dudes you know what I'm saying the rappers the light that first rhyme

was that to me but then I heard Banks rhyme not knowing that I would discover later on when the cold crush tapes came out

the dude that wrote that but his was later on when the Cold Crush tapes came out. The Kaz. The dude that wrote that. But his was different. Imp to dim, the ladies pimp, the women fight for my delight. Because I'm the grandmaster with the three. Because he was Grandmaster Kaz. And he was a DJ and stuff like that. So long story short, I hear Rapper's Delight.

And the only reason I listen to Rapper's Delight, put it on a record, I listened to it three times, knew it from start to finish. Wow. But that got me in trouble because now all the bullies and the hard rocks, you know, thugs, they were called hard rocks back then.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. They got fresh nigga and they walk hard. Gonna watch out for the hard rocks and shit. You know what I'm saying? Don't go down that block. That's me. But now, by me knowing Rappers of Light from start to finish, yo, motherfucker, come over here. Sing Rappers of Light from start to finish,

yo, motherfucker, come over here. Sing Rappers of Light. Right, right, right. If it wasn't a box around, I was that dude. So this happened, though. My brother brought Rappers of Light home. And I tell this story at the time. It was very attractive, light blue label with the rainbow.

So it stood out. A couple of weeks later, he brings home this blank. It was a white cut case and a red label. It just said enjoy. Right? Wow. So I'm busy doing

the Grandmaster Flash shit. I read the label. It says Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Wow. And I'm like, oh shit, what the fuck? Like I'm trying to do the,

now he got other motherfuckers with him. Yo, slow the fuck down. Shit is too much more. But I didn't know what was about to happen to me. It was Grandmaster Flash and Furious 5, and I was like, okay, my brother put that shit on the turntable. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

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into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little

girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T. Connecting changes everything The needle Now if you put Rapids of Light on

But it was dope because nobody was hearing it When you first heard that shit But it ain't this shit My brother put that shit on this shit It was a party night everybody Everybody was breaking the highs. Was screaming and the bass was shaking. And it won't be long till everybody knowing that Flash is on the beat. Bebop's going.

And then it goes. Now, if you listen to Rapper's Delight, this shit is a long ass record. Yeah, it is. Eight minutes, right? With three motherfuckers Rhyming individually Very long rhymes Alright

One motherfucker go Third motherfucker Second Third Break And do it all again This shit says Sha-da-na

And then the voice says this This blew my mind I had heard Eddie Chiba Shout out to him One of the first radio Hip hop radio shows He was on WFUV I couldn't get in in Queens Unless I turned the antenna I heard Eddie Chiba, shout out to him, one of the first radio, hip hop radio shows.

He was on WFUV. I couldn't get in in Queens unless I turned the antenna a certain way, but it was still statically. So I had first heard, excuse me, I had first heard Eddie Chiba say a rhyme. He said, when you mess around in New York town, you go down with the disco Chiba clown. You go down, go down, go down. you just keep the pep and was very inspirational to

Keep the pep in your step You don't stop till you get on the mountain top and when you reach the top you reach the peak and then he says that's when You hear Eddie Chiba speak But this shit says Sha-na-na And then the voice goes Italian, Caucasian, Japanese Spanish, Indian, Negro

Vietnamese MC Tish-cha-ki-ja Fly kids for the young ladies And then the beat dropped And this motherfucker said Introducing the crew You gotta see to believe

Five different voices Where one, two, three, four Five MCs The this motherfucker said introducing the crew you gotta see to believe five different voices where one two three four five and sees the first motherfucker said i'm melly mel and i rock it so well the second motherfucker said and i'm missing this because i rock the best third dude said raheem and all the ladies dreaming and the fourth dude said cowboy and i make you jump for joy then the fifth dude just yells creole the other four motherfuckers go solid gold. Kid Creole they go playing the role. And then Mel says dig this. We're the furriest five plus grandmaster flash giving you a blast. A show enough class so to prove

to you all that we're second enough we're going to make five MCs sound like one. I went running. Get me a pen. I'm running in the house now. Get me a pen. So that day, this is how I became EZD. In my basement,

I'm Grandmaster Gidhan, but that just taught me the DJ, the Grandmaster has these rappers. So I also became MC EZD. I was my own MC in my basement. Oh, shit. So by the time I'm called,

all of that shit was piled up. That's why I said, grab your round book. We're going in the basement. Oh, shit. All right. So by the time Ron called, all of that shit was piled up. That's why Ron said, grab your rhyme book when going in the studio. So all I had to do when it was time to make records, Ron had the idea

for us like that. Yo, we're going to make, he called me up, yo, we're going to write a record about how the world is because I was a straight-A student.

Just write a bunch of rhymes about how the world is. Cool. So we go in the studio, we make it like that. Unemployment, switching off, stuff like that. Russell's still not impressed the studio. We make it like that. Unemployment, switching off, stuff like that.

Russell's still not impressed with me. People don't know this. Originally, I think... He's not impressed with you or both of y'all? I think Search talked to you about this on the show. Okay, Search, okay. Originally, yeah, I saw that episode. He said Run was originally a solo group. What Russell was going to do is,

remember the early disco records where the fat black lady would sing, but the pretty model girls would go and tour with it off the wash. So Russell let me make and perform in the studio. It's like that with Joe, but he was going to tour by

himself. It was lucky I was Run DMC because if I didn't work out, it would have been Run The MC. But this is what happened. We do this like that cool. And Russell was like,

yo, D, go sit the fuck down. Get out the way. He was about to be the first ghost writer. Not the first, but a ghost writer. Exactly. 100%. So Run goes in there. He got Suck Em C's already written.

Why do you think he rhymed three times on a record? That was one of his solo records for his career. So he go and drop the rhymes, and then he comes out to Booth, and he says, D, go in there and say a rhyme. And I go, nah, man, you're trying to get me in trouble with this. Because Russell would come in, after I made it, it's like Russell would be on some shit like that. Yo, you still here?

Russell's called, man. His whole shit was for his brother. He had this whole shit. Curtis Blow, you're going to go to Europe. As a matter of fact, here's what's crazy. And one of the reasons Run wanted me in the group, and he was crying to me, Russell was going to have, she's documented,

in London there was a DJ named DJ Lady Blue. Okay. And she was one of the first people to play hip-hop. Russ was going to make Lady Blue Run's DJ, but Lady Blue had a pantomime pop dancer. Yeah, crazy shit. A pantomime pop locker dancer. And Run was, you got to be in a group.

He says, I don't want to be with the pantomime. You got to see it back then. Right, right. pop locker dancer and run was good so run says motherfucker just go in the booth and say your new rhyme so I go in the room I'm a pastor Mike when you DMC and if you're ready to people rock and steady you're driving because get your gas from Getty say some motherfuckers I'm in the booth okay he go in there he lays it i go in the booth and then what did i do when i got my acceptance letter he said say your newest rhyme i'm dmc and the place to be i go to st john's university and since kindergarten i require the knowledge and after 12th grade i'm gonna shake two cars i'm light-skinned. Now, it was really funny.

People said, dude, you ain't light. Back then, I was like, lighter. I'll show you. I remember that. Because you ain't light-skinned. No, back then, I was really light-skinned. No, I was red, like you could touch my skin. And I was light-skinned.

What happened? So I kicked the rhyme of Larry Smith, Roddy Hugh, the engineer at Green Street. They fucking losing it. But hold on. Let me stop you for a second. Do you know how legendary that rhyme is? So you're telling me that's your first rhyme on record? Can we say that rhyme from the beginning of a time?

The whole one? Yeah, yeah. I'm DMC. And the place to be, I go to St. George University. And since kindergarten, I acquired the knowledge out of 12th grade I went straight to college I'm light skinned

I live in Queens I love eating I live in Queens I love eating chicken and collard greens I trust the kiddo yeah nobody was doing that shit right

that was like I thought I was the only nigga eating chicken collard greens at that time. Yeah. And I said, wait a minute,

there's other motherfuckers out here, motherfucker? Eating chicken and collard greens? That was the beauty of my rhymes. You know what I'm saying? I'm very big fluffy. I dress to kill. I love this style.

I'm an MC. You know who's versatile. Yeah, I got good credit. In your regards, I got my name, not numbers on my credit cards. I go uptown. I come back home with who my name, not numbers on my credit cards. I go uptown. I come back home with who?

Me, myself, and my microphone. All my rhymes are sweet delights. So here's another one for y'all to bite. When I rhyme, I never quit. And if I got a new rhyme, I'll just say it. Because it takes a lot to entertain. And suck MCs can be a pain. You can't rock a party with a hip and hop.

You got to let them know you'll never stop. Your rhymes got to make a lot of sense. You got to know when to start, when the beat's coming. That one verse was like my introduction and my solidification. But here's the million dollar question. Did you have good credit back then? I had no credit. He was a kid.

I had no credit. He was a kid. I had no credit. No worry, but the beauty about hip-hop is people don't realize how prophetic it is. Before recorded rap, what did Mel, what did Furious 5, Funky 4, Cold Crush, Fantastic 5, Crash Crew,

Treacherous 3, Busy B, Starsky, Lovebook Starsky, Spoonie G. What did they all prophesy? Rock shocking and amazing, make you feel shame. One day our names will be found in the Hall of Fame. Law of Attraction. Yeah, they predicted it.

Yeah, man. So speaking on prediction shit, my whole shit came from Stan Lee. That's right. Because if you look at Wu-tang with the alter egos yeah tony stark yeah that shit yeah so we are all products of pop culture right right all of as i said before you yes i'm cold crush yes i'm i'm all the metal songs that are there but i'm also the brady bunch and adam's family right and the flintstones but you grew up on right all of that shit is is like a part of me. And the Jeffersons.

And the Jeffersons. And Archie Bunker. And Archie Bunker, yeah. He was from Queens. The fucking, yes. The Honeymooners. Yeah, the Honeymooners. And we had no choice but to watch these shows.

for Sunday. And what's my girl? What's my girl? Lucy. Oh, yeah. That's the first Cuban on TV. Exactly. Let's make some noise

when you be a Dominican too. No, I'm not. I'm not. No, he's not. No, he's not. We can talk about that on this show too. Your ancestry in me was wrong?

No, it was wrong. Because this is the name that he was about to say to your cousin. He's so disappointed all day. He was like, my Dominican brother. I thought I was for the longest.

Wait, wait, wait. For five years. Hold up. Before we get into that part, let's finish up. Before we leave the Stanleys, did you get to meet Stan Lee before he passed? Yes, I met him two times. We became homeboys. And it's crazy then because obviously this is, you know, comic books were a passion,

that you sold stuff that was your passion for another passion. Yeah. And it comes full circle. Now come back and be able to do something that you were passionate about. And not planning on it. That's crazy. That's wild. But Stan Lee came out and he taught.

I go to schools and I talk about this shit. How did you meet him? At Comic-Con. I said, I got to go meet Stan Lee. Comic-Con. Yeah, yeah. You really are there. You're like, that's it.

Yeah. Comic-Con is some nerd shit. I ain't going to lie. Nerd shit. No, no. Listen, if you go over comic books, that's a real thing. You got to know about that weekend.

Yeah. You got to be in tune and know about comic books. I took my kids recently to the one in Miami. You know what? I'm going to be honest. I watched

Entourage where they went to Comic Con. It's changed a lot. Everybody is dressed like the superheroes that they like. Yeah, yeah, no. It's superheroes, it's comic books, it's TV. Now it's changed a lot. And everybody is dressed like the superheroes that they like. Yeah, yeah, no.

It's superheroes, it's comic books, it's TV shows, it's Star Wars. It's all of that shit. But Stan Lee taught me something that set me up greatly to fucking prosper in this shit. And I tell kids about this. Stan Lee taught me, like, when I was reading the comic books and I'm a school kid so I was like, you know, fuck I gotta know what an adjective

is for. But the fact that I got taught what an adjective for, I noticed if you notice with all the superheroes, they ain't just who they are. If I say the amazing, you'll say if I say the amazing, you'll say if I say the invincible, you'll say... Spider-Man. If I say the invincible, you'll say...

Incredible Hulk? If I say incredible, you'll say... The guy with the hammer. If I say mighty... So Stanley told me, say... Before you tell the world who you are, find an adjective that's powerful, productive, and positive, and put it before it.

So I get to Rice High School. Spider-Man's amazing. Iron Man's invincible. Hulk is incredible. Thor is mighty. So I get to Rice High School now. And I'm realizing, oh, this shit ain't just about making records. This is like some real cultural way of life shit.

So I'm buying all the tapes from Terrence Washington. And this is 12th grade now. So 9, 10, 11, 12. I'm spending all my tapes from Terrence Washington. And this is 12th grade now. So 9, 10, 11, 12. I'm spending all my money on these tapes. Hearing the beats. When I was a kid, I grew up loving 70s rock radio. I'm hearing Theodore and Bam and all of them use, break rock records to rap over. Run DMC didn't create rock rap.

Right. They did. We just did it on a record and got all the money. Well, you popularized it. Right. So I get to 12th grade, and there's one tape in the middle of the cassette thing that says $12. I'm like, damn, I ain't got $12. Was that expensive back then?

Yeah. Imagine. What was the tapes, $5? Yeah, the typical tapes was $3 to $7. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. And that's good. You get caught, but you're not. Imagine being a kid, $5? Yeah. Typical tapes was $3 to $7. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. And it's good.

You get caught. Imagine being a kid, $5 in that era. Yeah. There's no fucking money. You broke his fucking shit. I'm lying every day. My father was starting to bug out on me. He was like, how come every day you fucking need a book?

Dad, I need something for English. Are you buying tapes? Okay. So I'm buying tapes. But there was one tape in the middle, and that shit said $12. And it says, CC4 versus the Fantastic Five at Harlem World. So I asked Terrence, yo, what's that one? You can't have that one. You know, Terrence, you don't even pay attention to that one.

Why, why? And then he hits me with this. And CC is Cold Crush? Yeah. But I don't know that yet. I'm like, what's the CC for because I'm used to Treacherous 3

right Funky 4 plus 1 right Fantastic 5 Furious 5 Double Trouble right he goes

that's the cold crush 4 now I had never heard a group fuck it's the cold now why can't it be the Fantastic 4 right he says

you can't have that one now you know I want it. Right. That was just. It's like telling us now. What are you going to do more? Ask him what you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cold Crush 4 versus the Fantastic Five at Harlem World. You can't have that one. Yo, I got to have that one, man. Yo, I got $8. He was like, okay, here, take this shit. You owe me $4. Get the fuck away from me, that type shit. Right. Like, here, take this shit. You owe me $4. Get the fuck away from me, that type shit. I took that shit home.

Now, I had heard Yes, Yes, Y'all, To the Beach, Y'all, Apache, Super Sperm, Kumo D with the Super Duper Party Pooper Man with all the Super Duper disco fast-rhyming and all of that shit. I heard Melly Mel. I heard Shaw Rock Who inspired me Yeah yeah Shaw Rock

We just met her the other day Shaw Rock's amazing Yeah yeah yeah I got my style Using an echo From Shaw Rock A girl Female MC

I heard her go To all of you My name is Shaw Shaw Not a millionaire I'm gonna do that Jay So Jay Wow

That's a big deal My name is the MC See all time great Great Bustin' most rhymes New York State Save the borders Glock Glock

Produce a shot From Shawrock Wow You never smoked weed You remember everything No I did smoke weed And he did Copious amounts of cocaine

Yes That's the picture Look at that He wasn't wrong about it You know what I'm saying You didn't You didn't You didn't You didn't You know what I'm saying? You didn't know. You know what I'm saying?

We didn't know to go. Go get down like 42nd Street. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. So I take this tape home, and I remember when I played it for Joe, too. It had the same effect. I put the tape on in my brother's Sanyo box, not two speakers, just a single one,

four boom boxes. You know, hip hop's crazy. Earring, dookie earrings. So this is before the boom boxes. Okay, everywhere. Panasonic? Yeah, yeah. My brother didn't have enough money to get the boom yet.

Okay. So I put this shit on. This shit goes, what's up, fly girl? No, what's up, fly guy? Hello, fly girls. It's the big throwdown at Harlem World. Cold Crush 4 versus Fantastic 5. They ain't no cop.

We'll eat them alive. Because we're the best when it comes to rapping. And like the flyer said, it is bound to happen, so the bad time is now, let the battle begin, and let the crowd be the judge of who win, because we don't need tuxedos, because all we want to do is door Kevin, Dot, Master Robin, Whip, and Ruby D, like we always do, say what, we battle fantastic, and here's a little gift. So before they go, they all can know just who they're fucking with.

I had never heard that shit like, whoa, what this is? And then it was with Charlie Chase, Tony Tone and I never heard this, the co-crushing motherfucking Toughass 4MC.

Charlie Chase is the Puerto Rican? Yeah. Puerto Rican DJ named Charlie. Yeah. Once again, Norman, give me a pen! Right. Give me a pen. I'm changing all that living queens and this and that shit.

I'm getting ready to fucking destroy motherfuckers. Right. Devastating my controller DMC and kill like they should. But here's the reason why I made the comic book, Amazing Spider-Man, Incredible Hulk, Invisible Iron Man. On that tape, they had names. The Hutmaker JDL, the Almighty KD, the Girl Taker EZAD. So I'm in Rice High School. I'm listening to this tape.

I'm taking typing. And at the end of a letter, you're supposed to type your initials, right? So I'm still EZD. They drop Rocket in the pocket. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

Then they go, we're not talking about your mother. Your mother not talking about your uncle. Your mother not talking about your uncle. Your uncle not talking about your father. Your father not your mother. No other, no other, other, other. And then over rocking in the pocket. They start doing, yeah. All the other MCs can't deal with us because we are the four known as the cult crush.

Putting fellas on a jock, making fly girls rock. You know we got a funky song. then you can come and sing and dance. Oh good. You good You can we got the two imps to two DJs on the wheels of steel Charlie chasing Tony tone at the top of the field telling all the competition got to be for real We rock a party to the break of day and this is our sound one We play we are the four MCs with the most respect And if you wanna throw joints, you gotta come correct We might have to take you out and keep your crew in check

Because the CC4 is number one You got to walk before you want Well, the initials of my name are GMC And it's going goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh, goosh At the higher power body rocket in the galaxy Um, oh my god, didn't it, uh, oh my god then the l comes on the initials of my name are jd l i want to go to heaven before i go to hell because i'm pushing more power than adora sell better than the oldest and the newest what's your name my name is sherry d lewiston this killed me

the initials of my name are ead the baddest thing The baddest thing to hit New York since O-E. I lost it. So I said, Darryl McDaniels is the initials on my name. D from Darryl. I'm becoming DMC. Because of GMC. And Cass hated me. But then when I met him and told him that, he almost cried.

Grandmaster Cass. Yeah. I became DMC because of GMC. But he hated you. Why? Oh, because Grandmaster Cass. Oh, I'm just kidding. Yeah, you were a buddy.

Oh, I'm getting it now. Holy shit. That went over my head. They all hated us because they were like, who the fuck? No, because now we had areas in Queens. Left Rock was more known than Hollis. No way. No, I didn't had areas in Queens. Left rack was more known than Hollis. No way. No, I didn't know that.

No. Left rack was known. Hollis got known. Right. Hollis started to get known around when everybody was saying, do a die, bet, side. Okay. But we was this little clique. We was only like 10 blocks but we started getting known

because we was fighting all of Southside this is Southside, this is Hollis that little jurgan but what I'm trying to say is they were like who are they now if you listen to Step Off

by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. They were talking about us. Saying, oh, you suck in, she's perpetrating a fraud. Well, what did Mel say? What did Mel say on that step, step, step, step? I was sitting on the corner

just a waste of my time when I realized I was the king of the rhyme. I got on the microphone. And what do you see? see the rest was my legacy i was born to be the king of this bebop thing to have stallions in my diamonds big diamond rings hold a mansion in iraq two minutes ago because rap is the game because i can do like shakespeare i'm a pioneer because i made rap something people wanted to hear because before my right no he said um little pieces of a dream is all you mean ever since you stepped on the NCC, biting your moves, taking fake awards, saying everyone else was perpetrating a fraud. But you're not.

Mel says that on there. Mel thought he told you. I won awards. We were getting all the New York Music Awards. We was getting all the time. Yeah, you guys were the face of in 85 we was getting all of those fucking

Melly Mel never seemed happy no he was he's never happy but that's Mel but Mel said he thought Ron was talking about him on Sucker MCs

you didn't feel good though that they were coming at you I would have thought them coming at you would be like yeah that's kind of dope no I was scared to death

this is new to me this is hold up this is that like and they were just I didn't know Now you'll be like, yeah, that's kind of dope. No, I was scared to death. This is new to me. Hold up. This is that. And they were just, I didn't know it was that level of. Competitiveness. Yes. And it was almost like, Run got real mad at me.

I was like, I got to stop rapping. Oh, shit. And he was like, wow, because Mel. Come on, man. No way. I don't know. Okay. I'm a man. No way. But you got to, I don't know. Okay. I'm a bedroom rapper. Right.

So this is Mel and more than mad at me. You're like the real dudes is mad right now. Yeah. It's like the shit where you're growing up in a hood and the dudes say don't do that shit and you don't do it. Like the sucker shit. Right. So it's like I can't do it no more because they don't want me to oh shit

Ron was like you know motherfucker there was a time we was at the New York Music Awards and it was Run DMC

Houdini Curtis Blow Jimmy Spicer so we was all together and Ron was the son of Curtis Blow right

so this day the son grew up and cursed the father out. We sit in the dressing room. So we had King, I'm the King of Rap. I'm saying this, 85. I'm the King, I'm the King, I'm the King. Kurt was known as the King of Rap at the time. If you go look at flyers, he was self-imposed King of Rap.

Chris Mel was the King of Rap too. But Run leaves the dressing room and I'm sitting in there with Curtis Blow comes over to me and he says, now, you got to understand, this is Curtis Blow to me. I don't know him like Joe. I don't know Harlem. I've never been to 125th

Street until I went to Rice. So Curtis Blow comes over to me and says, Mr. Curtis Blow, D, you got to stop saying king. You're the king. Now, I would say I'm the king of rock, but my king of rock, they started calling me the king. Right. So he comes up, it's Curtis Blow.

Yo, you got to stop saying you're the king. So I don't know no better than, okay. Because I'm telling you, like, Curtis Blow. So Ron comes back in and he's noticed my mood change, right? So I go, yo, D, what's the matter? And I innocently go, yeah, I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to be now. Oh, shit. He say, why?

Because Kurt told me I can't say king. What? In front of everyone. Motherfucker! You can't. Yo, Ron went in on Kurt. Don't you ever say that to my man. The character he was in Crush Group?

Right, right, right. Yo, he did that shit in real life. You gonna say that? And then Run just funny, he said, scream that shit harder and louder now. But that was the whole, for me, that was the whole... That was the changing of the guards, if anything.

Right. That's what was happening. Right, but he wasn't ready to pass the torch. Right. You know what I'm saying? But what I'm saying is my attitude... And Melly Mel, everybody. Yeah, my attitude, our attitude,

collective, especially after I played the Cold Crush tape for Run. And Run was funny. When he heard the rhyme, Run goes, I don the Cold Crush tape for Run. And Run was funny. When he heard the rhyme, Run goes, I don't like Jerry D. Lewis. I like JDL. Not knowing it's the same person. But we just saw they're rhyming and Chase is cutting while they're rhyming. So we said, that's what we're going to do. So those moments were the game changers of Run DMmc's presence you know i'm saying wasn't about

making the have we got crazy major major hit records because we were just doing routines it was rap routines the funky for i mean um the the um force mcs were the force mcs before they were the force mds stevie dean and they had yo they had bars ste Stevie D and they had, yo, they had bars. Stevie D and they had bars. So if you look, if you take Tricky, for example, which is a universal hit, whatever. Originally, that was supposed to be done over numbers. It's Tricky do rock and roll. Tricky is just, hey, Mickey. Oh it's tricky to rock a rock.

Tricky is just, hey, Mickey. Oh, Mickey, you're so fine. You're so fine, you bummer. Why did I not get to that? What the fuck? It's Rhyme on 10, man. You take the melody of the hot song, and then you talk about who you are. Which is a form of sampling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do they call it when they redo the record? No, no, cover, but this is, in a sense, it's an interpretation. Interpretation, yeah. We are called the Force MCs with DJ Dr. Rock. He DJs and you drop, ladies and gentlemen, you drop Impeach the President. Right. We DJs

and we MC and we're gonna hit. It was all rhymed routines. The cold crush, it's Gigantor, Gigantor, Gigantor Robot Cartoon. So we was like,

we're gonna do rhymes and routines. Here we go, it's just, here we go, it's just, here we go. It's just, we put the tape on and you hear Moe D start the show. Ladies and gentlemen, cool Moe D to the highest degree and the place to be on the wheel steals DJ Easy Leable. And you go on to the song.

So Here We Go came about because now we playing the Roxy. LA? No. New York? New York. Okay. We playing the Roxy. We playing fucking the Fever. Mm. In LA? No. In New York? In New York. Okay. We playing the Roxy, we playing fucking The Fever, we playing Dan Ceteria, but we playing

the Roxy. And what's special about the Roxy is Zulu Nation had it locked down every Thursday night I think it was, or Friday night. So his run DMC, and Jay had a broken leg too. Jay had a broken leg. So we playing the Roxy and run. He's like, yo, D, you go start the show. Motherfucker, you the son of a bitch, bro. You've been doing this shit since you was 15. Don't put my

ass out there. I'm going to come out. You start second season. I'm going to come out for my part and I'm going back to the stage. But he's like, nah, dude, you got to do it. So we arguing on the side of the stage. And I'm not knowing like the stage is right there. So you go, you do it, you do it. As he's coming at me, I'm walking backwards.

So like this is. You walk out the stage. I walk out. When the people see me, I'm like, oh, shit. What the fuck? So it kicked into me. It was like, yo, shit. What the fuck? So it kicked into me. It was like, yo, just tell them who you are, like they do on the tapes. So I just turned to the crowd, and I remember certain introductions.

There was an introduction of this crew called the Sure Shot Crew. But they used to do it with echoes. They used to go, the Sure Shot crew, crew, crew, starring DJ. Cool cuts, cuts, cool CC, sugar bear, bear, and the three MCs that'll rock you on, down, down, down to your knees. And they took Apache. My man Bill Blass, vroom, vac. Sean C, vroom, vac. Raheem, vroom, vac.

New York, vroom, ah, vroom. You, vroom, ready, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. And then they go into the routine. So I was like, do that shit, D. One, two, three. In the place to be. As it is plain to see. And I pointed backstage. He is DJ Run. And I am DMC.

And they're like, oh, shit. And then Jay, I love Jay. Improvision. He just, he's, oh, I got it. He takes Big B and starts going, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. So he is DJ Run, and I am DMC. Vroom, vroom, vroom.

Funky fresh for 1983. I'm suiting out DJ, Jam Master Jay, inside the place with all the bass. He leads without a trace. And I'm telling the whole rock team this, and we came here tonight to get on your case, and we the motherfuckers from Queens. Right. And I'm telling the whole rock team that said, we came here tonight to get on your case. And we the motherfuckers

from Queens. Right. It's a whole nother level shit. And we are, and I remembered cold crushing, motherfucking, tough ass fuck.

And we are, we had Suck Him Seas was Crush Groove 1. And then we did a song on his second album, Crush Groove 2. And then we did the film, Crush Groove, but Groove 2. And then we did the film Crush Groove. But I remembered Cole Krepp.

And we are the crush grooving, body moving, record making, and record breaking. And it goes a little something like this. Run camera goes to one, two, three. And here we go. Biggie probably was there that night because he got a rhyme where I was snatching change. I was robbing. I was in rock. Here we go.

So all of that shit was connected, but it was just me being prophetic and not knowing it. If you listen to the Jam Master Jay record, after I said Jay, your name's Jam Master Jay. I guess I was like the Kaz of the group. I'm going to write a whole song about J

to let people know who he is. So we did, kick off your shoes, jump on the job. Listen to the Jam Master as it rocked. His name is J, and he's on his way to be the best DJ. J.A. Wilder. So we made that record so that while we're opening for Parliament Funkadelic,

we could tell the audience who the DJ guy is. But there's a rhyme in there, and my therapist told me about this too. There's a rhyme in there, because even around that time, the whole Curtis Bloater, when we was coming up, we was getting so much

success that, number one, motherfuckers thought we were selling out, and number two, they thought we were selling out. And number two, they thought you were selling out? They thought we were selling out because, you know, it's MTV. Yeah, whenever you reach

a certain amount of success, that's what's going to happen. Like Hammer. Everybody hating on Hammer. Hammer should fucking get, he should have got celebrated during the hip-hop 50s. Absolutely, absolutely.

He's set to be at Dolls. He had endorsements before. And we hammer on drink champagne. Now, the famous motherfuckers get deals and they don't even care. Motherfuckers don't care about the culture

but they do deals. Right. But there's a rhyme where I say we're live as can be never sing in the blues. We got to tell y'all all the good news.

The good news is that there is a crew and I had wrote that rhyme when Joe put me in the group but it was just pretend make believe because I was sitting in my basement one day

and I said what would I do if I had to battle by myself group but it was just pretend make believe because i was sitting in my basement one day and i said what would i do if i had to battle by myself the furriest five or and treacherous three so i wanted to be prepared where livers can be never singing the blues got to tell y'all all the world all your fucking critics and said the good news the good news is that there is a crew, not five, not four, not three, just two. Two MCs who are claiming the fame and all other things won't be the same because it's about time for a brand new group or a DMC to put you up on a school. Ooh, he went at him. I said, yeah. Went at him.

The battle raps, God damn it. The scary thing is when I said that, the industry started changing. It opened the door for L. It opened the door for changing. It opened the door for L. It opened the door for P. It opened the door for all of us. When we got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 09, they called me over. DMC, I got to tell you something. You guys was prophetic.

What do you mean? In 1985, they told me, y'all made a record called The King of Rock. We had the balls and guts to scream that we were the King of Rock. A video with Larry Bud Melman from the David Letterman Show denying us entry into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You guys can't come in here.

This is a Rock and Roll Museum. And then we scream, we go and trash the museum. They hit me with this. Don't you know that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame didn't exist in 85 it didn't start till 86 oh shit y How could the whole video it didn't start till 86.

The prophets. The fucking prophets. Or the Mandela Effect. Exactly. They're crazy. So all in all, I say all this because is, even when hip-hop changed and became the music industry,

the thing that kept me running, Jay, was nobody could outdo us on the show. All right. We opened for Big. We opened for Pac. We opened for Pac and Big, and it was crazy about them. They didn't know no better. Pac, there's no way I'm going on after Run-D.M.C.

All right. And this is Pac. It is fucking prime. Pac knew better, you're saying. I think he created it. Yeah, but hold up. Here's the beautiful thing about it. The promoter's losing it because if Pac goes on before us, Pac's not knowing, half the crowd are going to leave.

Right. Because half that crowd is there because of him. Right. They don't even know my music. They heard of us. So me, Run-D.M.C., had to go in the room and say, Pac, we're very flat, and stuff to go in the room and say, Pac, we're very flat

and stuff like that. But we had to tell Pac, this is your audience. See those people, we had to tell Pac, no, we're happy. Pac,

you know we have an arsenal, but those people are here for you. And he tells the promoter, all right, fuck that shit. The only reason I'm going on

is after Run DMC is because they told me to. And he went out there and been proud. We opened for Biggie a couple of shows. Diddy would call us. Biggie, we want you all to open for the bad boy reunion. This is when all the motherfuckers was together. Biggie sitting there, ain't no way I'm going on after Run DMC to get my ass kicked.

Y'all motherfuckers got Peter Piper and Dita. Big, big ass. Oh, big ass. You know that. But these people are here for you. get my ass kicked y'all motherfuckers got peter piper indeed a big big ass oh big yes you know that but these people are here for you so the reason i say that it's not about us it's about that thing right that they know is untouchable like this hip-hop shit is an old school isn't old or used to be it's eternal right every time we would show up even in the new era motherfuckers would be like oh shit, shit, Pete Rock saved us.

What's crazy about life is this. The very things that you do for people. Down with the king. Down with the king is such a classic. The very things that you do for people, with people, whether good or bad, will happen to you. So what did people say Run DMC did with Aerosmith? We brought him back. We did. Walked his way over with Aerosmith? We brought him back. We did Walk This Way Over with Aerosmith, brought him back.

Going into the 90s, everybody that I said, Park Big, Naughty by Nature, this and that, we opened the door. It was their show. But everywhere we went, they were still worshiping us. And it's because you're this and that. As they should. As we wasn't participating as much. We wasn't on the radio. We wasn't on the charts.

Didn't have a video. Pete Rock comes along for the Down With The King record. I got you. Come over to my house. We go out to Mount Vernon to Pete Rock's house. We go down in the basement. This is Pete Rock. He goes over to the MPC.

It's the button. That music comes on. It's the 90s now. Got all the Coogee rap. That motherfucker's killing y'all motherfuckers. The dope shit going on. It's the 90s now. Got all the Coogee rap, that motherfucker's killed, y'all motherfuckers, like the dope shit going on. But we still run the MC,

but we still 80s, and the fine is. We still working too, because we doing a lot of the white rock shows. We ain't doing the new shit with y'all. Jay's there, hanging, but we don't have a song for that. So we go in the basement,

he, Pete Rock, hits the MPC, and he hates when I say that. What Run D.M.C. did for Aerosmith, Pete Rock did for us. He brought us back. Wow. Pete Rock saved our careers. Wow. Pete Rock, he hit the button. That music came on.

He goes over to the turntable and says he's a DJ. He takes your own house. The part on my verse where I go, name is DMC. the turn tables because he's a DJ. He takes your own house. The part of my verse where I go, name is DMC, the all-time great, bust the most rhymes, rhymes, New York State, reporters clock, producers job. You want to be down with the king,

you want that man for the, he's stuck down with the king, over that meat. I posted that this morning and Sony Music made me take it down. What, down with the king? What's the verse that just said? Oh, Run's house verse? What's the verse that? Music made me take it down. What? Down with the King? What's the verse that Justin... Oh, Run's house verse? What's the verse that...

They made you take it down? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They made me take it down. I was heated. They was like, okay, my bad. We make Down with the King. Great record, man.

Then we make the video. Go look at the video. Red Man King. Easy E. We didn't bite his ass. He heard the mother. Not everybody wanted to be a part of it. Yeah.

Because let me stop you. Did you doubt that something like that would happen where everybody wants to be? Were you guys doubted? Everybody was in the thought, but when it came, it was so humbling. Right. Whoever was in town came. Show love. Well, I won't let you finish,

but let me just stop you for one second because, you know, all day you've been saying how much Stan Lee means to you and how much his superhero.

Well, our show is about giving people their flowers and I wanted to give you your flowers face-to-face, man-to-man, and tell you, you my hero.

You know what I'm saying? You are heroes. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. So we wanted to give you your flowers like a man. Wow, thank you. Let's tell you how to you my hero you know i'm saying you are heroes you know what i'm saying so we want to give you your flowers like a man like you know we've been doing this we've been doing this for for seven years i mean he's day one yeah let me just tell you something let me just tell you something when i knew i had you booked yesterday i couldn't even sleep like it was i felt like it was christmas like i felt like today was christmas like i couldn't even sleep. I felt like it was Christmas. I felt like today was Christmas.

I couldn't sleep. I woke up. I wanted to make sure I did everything. I worked out. I made sure I didn't drink. I made sure I just wanted to be everything because I said it in the intro, and I said if it wasn't for Run DMC, there probably wouldn't be a Capone or Noriega, which means there wouldn't be a Noriega,

which means there might not be a drink champs and so on and so forth with the legacy that you guys laid down. And I want you to know, face to face, man to man, is that it takes nothing away from me to tell you how great you are. You guys are great. You guys are legends. You guys are icons. And I just

want to continue to support it. This is what this show is about. So many people get 10 years in this, like they get 10 years in this game or they get 12 years or 20 years in this game and they say that they washed up.

You know, that's not, that doesn't exist in no other genre of music. No other genre of music that says that. And, you know, to celebrate Hip Hop 50

and to know that you guys got damn near 40. 40 of the 50 years. 40 of the goddamn 50. That's crazy. Goddamn. Let's make some goddamn noise for that.

Jesus, man. I mean, the same way everybody said that, that's how it started to comic books. I don't know if you know Riggs Morales. Of course. Of course. Riggs is my partner. Oh, Riggs is a part of this?

Yeah. Riggs is my partner in the book. That's amazing. So you are Dominican. No, I'm just playing. I'm just playing. I'm just playing. I'm just playing. Shout Yeah. Riggs is my partner in the book. That's amazing. So you are Dominican. No, I'm just playing. I'm just playing. I'm not the Riggs, man. The book came about, I went to Riggs for some music stuff.

And when I sat down with Riggs, he was like this. And I was like, hey, Riggs. He was like, and he used these words. He said, you're DMC. You are my superhero. And he asked me, what was it like when you was a kid? And I was like, well, I used to just recollect and draw comic books. So we sat there. We didn't talk about hip hop or music. We sat there for three hours and talked about comic books. After he heard me say all this stuff that I was

doing, he said, D, you should do a comic book. And I said, nope. Don't put me in that. Hell no. I know what you're trying to do. And he was like, what? I didn't want to do a comic book and make the comic book culture think, oh, just because this motherfucker had a couple of hit records, he didn't do anything. That's how much you cared about it. Right. But then Riggs said, no, D, you was comic books for hip hop. And by you being hip hop, this will work. So Riggs is the guy that made the Daryl Mayer. He said, you can't use Marvel.

I was pissed off. I've got He said, you can't use Marvel. I was pissed off. Got to be Marvel. Can't use DC. Can't use Image. Can't use Valiant. Can't use Milestone. What are you going to call your comic book company? Now, this is the beauty of hip hop.

Shit, I don't know. DMC. D's for doing it all of the time. M's for the rhymes. That or mine. C's for cool, cool ass can be. Run used to say, why you wear those glasses? Oh, I can see.

And it still works to this day. D's for doing it all of the time. M's for the rhymes. That or mine. C's for cool, cool ass can be. Why do I wear contacts? So you can see. What do they start with?

Let's see. So it's relevant. But then I go, you know what, Riggs? I'm going to just be making comic books. And you know how Riggs is. I'm going to just call my company Daryl Makes Comics. Joe! Daryl makes comics!

We're going to do a good job! Because thank you, Riggs. Yeah, no, shout out to Riggs. He's a legend out there. Who was part of Shady Records. Yeah, yeah. The Sorcerer. It was that category that, and you understand, inspiration is a two-way street.

Why are you telling me that inspires me to still keep going? Let me tell you how much of a legend you guys are. Halloween had just passed, right? And then my wife comes in the house, and she buys my son a fake Run-D.M.C. outfit. And I was like, you got to get that out of my house. I was like, no. It had two stripes. I was like, you cannot do that to my son.

But my wife, not knowing, she's just thinking like they're paying homage. But I'm saying they're paying the wrong homage. Like, if you're going to do Run-D.M.C., you got to go get the jacket. You got to get the shoes. Yeah. I can't let my kid go out like that i was just like yeah but that's how iconic it is yeah people dress up like y'all for a halloween that's crazy that's crazy crazy did you ever see the fake one dmc concert yes yeah you got got to sue i want to be there i just sue sue. We went to court, and they can sell it because all they got to do is change one little thing.

Oh, wow. Right. Bullshit. Wow. There should be a law that if you know and the world knows where it's coming from, they'd like to check just the one little thing. You're right. Why do you think some of these cars look like the Benz's and the Mercedes? Right.

Change one little thing and then we tried to sue. You crazy? Right. It's great. But what we should do is put an official Run DMC. Yes. From Power Company. Yeah.

That's the key inside there. Yeah. Because everybody will go by that. Anyway, I mean, all I get, I get two things in the holiday season. Christmas, I can't go to the mall. Right. Because Muslims, Jewish people, Chinese people, they scream in the rhyme, Christmas. Yeah. Christmas, I can't go to the mall because Muslims, Jewish people, Chinese people, they screaming the rhyme Christmas

out. And on Halloween, just this Halloween, my text message, my emails, and everybody that sees me gets this. I'm in 7-Eleven. I'm in a super... Guess who I'm going to be tonight? Right here.

Yeah, you know! And then my text, but here's the beautiful thing. The kids going to be tonight? Right here. Yeah, you know. And then my test. But here's the beautiful thing. The kids going to school. Right. Their parents dressed them up over the last 36 years since that record. But now kids that like it's tricky because it's hot on TikTok, they go to discover and see who are the guys behind this record

that they don't know me like you they just know the song they kids are now saying mommy I want to dress up like Run DMC that's the beautiful thing connecting with

that next generation you know what's even more beautiful is that you guys are timeless like that's what's even more beautiful it's just you're timeless like

I was speaking we speaking to Trash From Naughty by Nature and I was telling them, I was like, yo, like most of the time if I'm in a party

and they're not playing at least one or two or three Naughty by Nature records, it's probably the party I don't want to be at. No, no. And if they're not playing Run DMC,

if they're not playing Run DMC at a party, I pretty much probably don't like the DJ. Yeah. We at that fucking, I pretty much probably don't like the DJ. We at that fucking Rolling Stone level. So let me ask you, right?

I did an interview with my friend Brian earlier and he asked me this question, so I want to ask you this question. What was the moment when you felt like you made it? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network,

hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.

Listen to new episodes of Absolute season one, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood

in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh, you know, I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Oh, the moment that I felt like I made it was,

it was 86. Because of Walk This Way now, took us to a whole other level, and this is the crazy moment. I'm on the Grand Central Parkway. Traffic. No, no. Open road. Okay. The exit with Parsons Boulevard and something.

I'm driving right there. And I'm driving. And not knowing, because I used to walk around as DMC. Because that's how everybody else was dressed. And so I fit in. And unless you knew I was running DMC. My man, Bud, we used to stay in the corner of Hollis. And my boy would hit me, C.O.D. That's the hundredth time that car came around the block.

All right. And all he's doing is looking and can't believe running Jay. Damn seeing Jay. Because run with the family, man. All right. Jay was still in the street on the corner. So here's the time. I'm driving on the Grand Central Parkway in my 1986 Fleetwood Caddy.

Okay. For some reason, I thought it was a Saab. For some reason, my bad. Go ahead. I had the black Fleetwood. Go ahead. With the wolfers in the behind the scenes. And I'm driving.

And I just look over at the car next to me. And they crash. Oh, shit. Because they're staring at you. Yeah, I pull off the highway and say, oh, shit. I can't walk around like this anymore. Yeah, they saw glasses, hat, Adidas stripes. They didn't see the 40 I was holding.

But I look over and they crashed. So then I knew, that's the day I said, oh, now I know what Mick Jagger and Michael Jackson feel like. It was 1986. The game, the Maiditas, first non-athletic entity to receive a major sport like... And those crazy tours. Because I want to come and walk this way real quick, right? Okay. So the rumor has it is this was Rick Rubin's idea?

No. Oh, wow. Now, Rick is one of the greatest producers there, but everybody will tell you he don't create anything. Okay. He comes in and brings the best out of you. What you got? Let me see. He ain't coming anywhere.

He's not like writing and this and that. I got a song idea. The original idea came about like this. We was finishing the Raising Hell album. So Jay goes, yo, we got to make a beat jam. So we was just going to sample Toys in the Attic.

Yo, sample the... We didn't know it was Walk This Way. Me and Rumba said, yo, get the album with the toys on the cover and loop number four. Because the DJs would scratch the title of the records out so the rival DJs

we just knew we wanted remember how that shit sounds so it's going to be three minutes and 30 seconds of a loop of that because if y'all

understand Walk This Way like I said wasn't the first rock record we had Rockbox it wasn't the first rock record. We had Rockbox. It wasn't the first rock rap record. We had King of Rock.

Even on Raisin' Hell, we had a song called Raisin' Hell. That was us making and us rhyming. So we was going to loop Walk This Way, and we was going to rhyme about how good we were. And I still remember my rhymes to this day. We had the whole rhyme thing done. It was going to come on. And I was supposed to go, because we came out in 83. It's 86 now.

I go, I'm DMC in a place to be. Been rapping on the mic since 83. I'm the greatest MC in history. There will never be an MC better than me. And then Rhyme was supposed to go, I'm DJ Rhyme, and I'm the more typical Rhyme, the MC shit. So we had that going on. Rick Rubin, who was our producer at the time, comes in the studio. And he says these words, yo, y'all should do Walk This Way over. So we think it from a limited hip hop perspective.

Motherfucker, what you think we're going to do? We're going to sample this shit. We're going to rhyme over it. He says, no, do the record over the way the band originally did it. So that was Rick Rubin's beautiful idea. And me and Run said, no! Hell no! Run was funny, because he used to always hold my books up and go,

D got rhymes! Why the fuck you want us to sing this? And we had never heard the lyrics. Because the DJs never let it play that far. So Rick tapes the vinyl off the record, go in D's basement, put the record on,

take a pen and paper, let the record play, and write down the lyrics so y'all can learn them. So we drive, we leave Chungking House of Metal. We drive from Chungking back to my basement.

We put the record on. They got to understand anticipation. We never heard what was going to happen. That shit said back choke level in the high note

and we're getting on the floor. Oh, hell no. Hell no. We going, no, fuck that shit. No, we ain't doing this. It's Hillbilly gibberish. Russell screaming

at Joey motherfucker this and that. Running, arguing with this. Hell no, hell no. We hanging the fucking phone up. This is Russell screaming at Joey, motherfucker. This and that. Running, arguing with this. Hell no, hell no. We hang the fucking phone up. I hated the record at first. Oh, my God. Well, what it was, we didn't want to do that.

We don't do that. Right. That show, love it or not. He wanted you to just do it over. But you got to understand, it's our first time hearing it. It didn't digest. It was just, that shit ain't fucking, people seem to think that the BNMC, you need a closet full of clothes and iced out jewelry. Pocket full of dollars, walkers every flavor, stuck up attitude and other kind of behavior.

I'm sorry to say this how it was before, but people ain't going for that no more. You got to give a performance because by now you should know that you're giving a party not a fashion show. Another Grandmaster Cas, though. That wasn't mine. I just, those industry moments. Cas, what's that? Cassie, you know my shit better than me. So, we go no. We didn't let it digest.

Back, short, lover, however he was doing it. No, no, no. No, no. Hell no. Hell no. So, Arnold Smith was rhyming on that? Let me show you what happened. We ain't doing that shit. That's corny. We want to fucking rhyme, man. Run was like, Jay, motherfucker, you heard King of Rock. You heard Rockbox. This is what we do. So Jay's trying to convince us and we arguing, no, no, no. So then Jay goes, slow the fuck down. Listen, he uses these words and this was the game down. Listen. He uses these words.

And this was the game. Listen to Steven's flow. Backseat lover, I need to come and talk to you. Now we're hearing it. We wasn't before. It was gibberish. But Jay listened to his flow. I understand that language.

Backseat lover. Oh, shit. We can do this shit. So we learn the records. Now, this is funny. y'all can go to YouTube and hear this version. We still didn't want to do it. So the original demo of Walk This Way,

Run went in and took the whole first verse. Backseat lover, high enough to cover, talk to my daddy, say ain't seen nothing, did it? Go you go D, and we went in and just did the lamest version of that shit at all when we tried to leave the studio Jay was fucking standing at the fucking door

with his hand like if you don't go back in there and do this Run DMC shit I'm going to shoot you I'm going to shit fuck

we go so we go in there and Jay said let's flow it he said don't do it like Steven did it. Do it like Run DMC would do it. That's another game changer.

Oh, we can switch off. Like we didn't know. So that's the version that you heard. So it was Rick Rubin's groundbreaking, universal, brilliant idea to do it with, to do it over. Now, here's what's crazy. It didn't end there with Rick.

While we were doing that, Rick's on the phone calling Boston. My name is Rick Rubin. I know you know who Run DMC is. We want to do your record over. Do you want to do it?

Hold on. This is to Aerosmith. This is to the people. Okay. Who is this? Imagine that back then. This is Rick. My name is rick rubin

i know you know who run dmc is do you want to do the record over hold on some guy named rick rubin on the phone and this and they want to do it yeah and steven them say yeah we know he's run dmc do what record you want to do walk this way over so rick got them to say yeah we'll do it with you he got them to come to new y York to do the record with us. So we walk in the studio one day, and they in there. I'm more of the rock guy. You know what I'm saying? But I'm not sure because I don't even know rock from the radio.

I didn't have the album. So when I walk in the studio this day, I see Stephen and Joe Perry, and the first thing that comes to my mind is, oh, shit, it's the Rolling Stones. So, you know, that people is like, you know what I'm saying? But that was like an icebreaker. Steven Tyler said, no, we're not the Rolling Stones. Where else? Those are the other guys.

And then we laughed it off. But let me tell you something that's crazy about Rick's decision. If we would have did it over our way, just rhyming over it, it would have just been another Run DMC Rock song. It would have been cool. You probably listened to it on the way to work or something. Y'all remember that came out. If we would have did it over the way they did it without them, it would have been, oh, okay, cool.

But the only reason it was groundbreaking is because Rick made them do it with us. Right, right. On MTV. Right. So now their fans is going, what the hell is Aerosmith doing with the rap dudes? And our fans is going, what the hell is Run-D.M.C. doing with The Rock Show? But if you look at that video, I've been to South Sudan to perform. Wow. The war zone of South Sudan to perform. Wow.

The war zone of South Sudan. That's Africa? Yeah. Where they had war, chopping hands. The one week I go there, they ain't fighting. Why? They love Run DMC. They love Naughty by Nature.

They love pop. They love big. When I left, they went back to fucking war. Jesus. But I bring that up. I've been to South Sudan. I've been to Russia. How about the publishing?

Did you guys get publishing on the walk this way? Nope. It's all there. It's a great question. Great business question. It's all there. I only get money when I show up in performance. Or they get all that writing.

100%. On their original, yes. And the dead version. So they was doing that back then. I thought that was a new version that they was doing. Well, no. You guys didn't rewrite anything on the record. No.

Only thing that's not live on their record on the record. No, the only thing that's not live on that record is the drums. We use the drum machine. Yeah, they didn't write the lyrics. They just read the lyrics. Add-ins, everything. They recreated everything.

But people tell me from Ukraine, I've been to Ukraine to perform. I've been to Russia to perform. Shout out to Ukraine and Russia. Beautiful people

in all those countries that walk around wearing naughty by nature public enemy shirts, crazy shit. But everywhere I go, they say, DMC, don't you know when Steven Tyler took that mic stand in that video and knocked down the wall that was separating y'all, it didn't just happen in the video, it happened in the world. So that's the power of hip hop, that's the power of music. It really has an effect on that. But it was Rick's brain. Now, the reason why I say that, if Rick didn't suggest to do that, it wouldn't have been what it is.

What year did that record come out? 1986. 1986? 1986. And it gave birth to Limp Bizkit. Right, yeah. It gave birth to Rage Against the City. That was another shift.

All of those dudes. It was the first time I remember being in New York City that I remember a record, a rap record record playing on KTU playing on the pop station playing on you know what I mean not just crossover that chain I believe at that time we only had WBLS I don't even think we had Hot 97 or Power 105 that was the record that and that record was so dope that it was said Bob the Rock did it but it allowed all music to crossover that shit wasn't happening until... And did Aerosmith, did they know and appreciate

what you guys actually did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. There's footage of this. You can look it up. During the session, Jay shows them what he used to do as a DJ. He's cutting up fucking Walk This Way,

and Steven Tyler on camera goes, when are you going to hear me? And Jay stops it. Ah, that's it, Steve. We know. And everybody just laughs. And then Steve was like, yo, teach me to DJ. Jay actually taught Steven Tyler how to DJ.

Get the fuck out of here. On his own record, yeah. Because they knew about hip hop. They knew about Run DMC. And it was cool for them because they say we brought them back. But what we did was this was happening for them. And my joke is they could have made a record with God, Jesus, and Moses for real and nobody would have cared.

But they took a chance. You know, what do we got to lose to do this for Run DMC? It changed the world. That's why we're so kids, man. Always be open to try something new because it might not just change your life. It'll change the world. But that's the Walk This Way story because of Rick Rubin. And when Rick was working with us, we had all the records from Raising Hell done.

I'm going to tell you the coolest story about Rick. When we was doing Peter Piper, I didn't like my part when I come on and go. Peter Piper by Webber. Right. We did it all the energy. But there's the part where I break off and I go, Jay's like King Midas. Since I was told everything that he touched, turned to gold.

He's the greatest of the great. Get it straight, he's great. So I didn't like that after we sat back and listened to it. You know, we had Hit It Run. I didn't like the way that sounded on a Raising Hell album. I was like, Rick, I got to do it over this and that. And he's telling me as a producer, no, leave it, leave it. And I couldn't see what he was, I couldn't see or hear what he was saying.

So I'm like, Rick, I got to do this over. So speaking of cocaine. I like cocaine. Chunking House of Metal, it's like 3.30 in the morning. The Chunking House of Metal, that's the one that was in Chinatown, right? Yeah, yeah. In Chinatown. Yeah, on Center Street.

Okay. So Rick goes, it's 3.30 in the morning. Uh-huh. 40s, coke, high as hell. That was the first Red Bull. Yeah, 40 hours, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wake up in the morning, you got a duty, give me a 40.

Yeah, yeah. For sure. So Rick goes, all right, do you want to change it? Show up at 11 o'clock tomorrow morning. Mm-hmm. All right. So I probably didn't go to sleep. I think I went to the world or some shit like that.

To the club where you come out in the morning and shit. So I come back to the studio, right? And I'm telling Rick, I got to be right. We're running up the scene. It's got to be right. It's got to be right. I don't like the way I sound like this. So he says, okay, motherfucker, go in there and lay the verse.

So I go in there. Jays like King Midas as I was told. Like, ah! Ah! Like, ah! So I come again. This is the coolest producer ever. So he comes back and he says, I'm going to play what you did just now.

And he plays it. Now, I'm going to play what you did last night. And he plays it. Jays like King Midas as I was told. He says, which one is better? And I go, oh, the one I did last night. And he plays it. Jay's like King Minus as I was told. He says, which one is better? And I go, oh,

the one I did last night. And he says this, you don't have to work hard to be you and you don't have to impress to be anybody. He said, you're so dope on the mic

and I have a lot of soup now that you are showing no effort and you're better than half the motherfuckers on the mic. Get the fuck out of here. Woo! Woo!

So he was, you know what I'm saying? But what he was saying was, you didn't need the whole Piper Peppers, you know, Little Bo Peep Cole lost his shit. He said, no, you're taking him somewhere else. And that's a producer. You know how guitar players or singers, you got to go somewhere.

I'm just a rapper. I'm not Freddie Mercury. I'm not a maker. But he was like, you take Jay's like King Midas as I was told everything that he tells. And he said, the music is open right now. He said, watch how hard that shit be. He said, I'm thinking you got to be,

a lesson for young people, I'm thinking you got to be violent to be hard. He was like, nah. You can lay back and be stronger than everybody else. So Rick, there was a Rick walked this way and my Peter Piper rhyme, thank you Rick. Alright, so let me ask you,'ve always been wanting to ask you, who was Mary Mary and why she was bugging? That's another Rick thing.

Really? I didn't know. Run was taking Mary Mary off of Super Disco Breaks. It's a monkey record. It's the monkeys. Mary, Mary, where are you going to? Mary, Mary. I didn't know that. it's the monkeys Mary Mary where are you going to Mary Mary I didn't know that

that's the monkeys that's the monkeys that is hey hey we're the monkeys hey hey we're the monkeys it's the monkeys song which was on Super Disco Break

Volume 3 it's on the break piece wow so Run was taking that and I Can't Stop we was trying to think of a routine to make.

Okay. So we sampled it. Rick comes in the studio, and he says, you know, to the booth, you know, push the button, don't say, oh, Mary, Mary, where you going to? Say, Mary, Mary, why you bugging? Okay. Boof. Go.

Mary, Mary, why you bugging? I can't stop. Red. So Mary not a real person? No, she's not. I'm taking a pee-pee. Okay. I'll wait for you to come back for a quick time.

I'm sorry. Hold on. Cool. All right. You talk too much. And you never shut up much is that about you never shut up is that about a snitch

no it's not it's not about a snitch okay no it's just it's just it's more of Run DMC's hilaric comedy comedic side right

it was just a record that we told we got sued for that too and had to pay cause we never heard the record that's why these lawsuits are going to be getting crazy we never heard the record that's why these lawsuits are going to get crazy we never heard the record we didn't know there's a record from the 50 that goes you talk too much and you never shut up i said you talk we didn't know that get the fuck out of here we were just trying to be funny hey you over there i'm know about your con you're like the

independent network news on channel. So it was just us trying to be funny. So there was nobody out there that talked too much? Run. He ran as well. Once we made the record, that was Run's record. Run would never shut up. Eric B.

prophesied, Run, one day you're going to be a reverend. And look what happened. Run will tell you that story. Eric B. was like, this motherfucker. One day you won't to be a reverend. And look what happened. Run will tell you that story. Eric B. was like, what day you going to be here? That's why we call him Run, because he ran his mouth. I was a quiet Run. And he became Run because of Rush. Because Rush was movement.

But if you listen to my rhymes, when I perform, many hearts are warm. I'm better known as the quiet storm i don't talk too much but i got beef when i kill mcs i cause grief to have a state of my control is my main goal my name is daryl his name is joe so if you notice in all through until the group broke up people never heard me from me unless i spoke on the microphone. Run was always the voice in the lead. So he ran and I was the quiet storm. Like so

many East Ends was always there. You know what I'm saying? But Run ran. He was the talkative one. Holy moly guacamole. The record Jam Master J. You spoke about it earlier you said that it was made to

because usually people make records like that when someone passed away but it was like he was making this record about him as he was alive he was actually giving him his flowers right then and there was that something you planned

or was that because like how we spoke earlier because the DJ was kind of like one of the main attractions? Well, right. That comes from this. There's show business, entertainment, music business, motherfuckers that rap. Right. Right.

Which comes from our culture of hip-hop. Right. And I can say this, because people say, we know you're not creative, but Run DMC created hip-hop. So I guess I have the right to say this. Right. I've can say this because people say, we know y'all didn't create it, but Run DMC created hip-hop. So I guess I have the right to say this. Right. I've been saying it. I'm not just saying it now because of conditions and what's going on. I've been saying it since 83.

It's not hip-hop if there's no DJ there. Wow. It's not hip-hop. It's somebody rapping over something recorded in a studio for record making purposes all right now you can say but it's hip-hop yes but i'm telling you it's not but it can be it's just like um i never thought hip-hop would reach the point where it would be and this is nothing against it, you have Britney Spears and you have Sheryl Crow. So Britney needs choreography, she

needs a writer, she needs that. She needs therapy too. Yeah, she needs all that. See her whole line? She a little loose. But then Sheryl Crow just needs the guitar and the microphone. So I'm talking from an elemental standpoint. You know So I'm talking from an elemental standpoint. You know what I'm saying? You can't say you're a painter and you're not using a paintbrush. Like my friend Sonny, he thinks he's

a stepfather. He thinks he's a father. Now you can be an artist and do artwork. You can be an artist and do artwork. So you can be an artist and do artwork. Right. You don't got no kids. You can be an artist and do artwork. So you can be an artist and rap and do an imitation of the hip hop culture. But the reason why we made records about DJ is the entertainment business is not in the business to keep anything holy and sacred. They just got to move them records. Right. So we wait.

As soon as they said something about who's that, we was letting people know hip hop, right, it starts with the DJ. Starts with the DJ. Then the MCs come. Or it starts with the music first. So the guy rapping is hip hop music. He's doing hip hop. Or it starts with the music first. Right. So the guy rapping is hip-hop music. He's doing hip-hop.

But I'm talking about any hip-hop with a DJ really doing that thing. So we made the Jam Master J record to let the people know it's DJs and MCs coming up next to one and only Jam Master back up from the rope punks. So that is so that the hip-hop has done pushed the groups out, the picture,

and they done pushed the DJs to the back. But the DJs is the foundation of the culture that when I show up, you always going to see one. You ain't going to, Jay never pushed. Like I said, technology is an assistant to make it easy. But now I don't have to carry a thousand records in a crate. I just have it on a hard drive. Last night I was in Atlanta.

You DJ? No, not no more. Okay. Not no more. I write rhymes. I was in Atlanta. Go ahead. But last night I was in Atlanta at this event, this education conference.

Because of my book, Daryl's Dream, everybody go get one. It's a story about me in the third grade that really happened. I do a lot of education conference. Because of my book, Daryl's Dream, everybody go get one. It's a story about me in the third grade that really happened. I do a lot of education conferences. You remember what you was doing in the third grade? Yeah. I had Miss Ebanks. She left me back. That's all I remember. Really? You remember that?

Yeah. I was talking at this event and there was a DJ there with his CD deck thing. Right. And this is funny. You could ask my son. Before, he knew I was leaving. He was like, go get your father.

And he just had to tell me. And this is what I love about hip hop. Like, it's all hip hop. But when we say real hip hop, we just mean hip hop that this music business is not. The essence of it, right. They're not. You can't comment on it. Matter of fact, you can't even come to the party.

But this DJ just had to show me, come here, DMC. And he just showed me a picture with him at Two Techniques. Because he didn't want to be considered not original or authentic. Right. original or authentic. So for us, it was important that the group is Run DMC and people have a habit of, and we have Run DMC these two people, somebody

in the audience will interrupt or I will interrupt. It was three people. Oh yeah, that's right. You know what I'm saying? You're not going to get the detail. But me as a fan, when I hear Run DMC, I think of J. Right, because you whip us. But overall, here's why I'm so passionate.

If you look at all the Run DMC covers except for Tougher Than Leather, that's the only one that J was on the cover of. On a Run DMC album, he's on the back with us. On a King of Rock album, this is crazy about the industry. He's on the back with his head down because he wasn't signed to Profile Records. So they could not put him on there. All right, so you're not going to show our DJs, so we're going to talk about him on every record. Go back and look at the albums. What's crazy is on the Run DMC album. So Profile only signed actually you and Run.

Run and DMC was only signed to the group as Run DMC. And we wasn't signed to Profile. We signed to Russell. Russell was signed to Profile as Run DMC to deliver the Run DMC record. We were signed to Rush Productions. But if you look at the album i'm doing this because fantastic five's incredible when theodore's on the scene with the golden voice we are the people's choice and we rock with the gang still lean we prove to the other mcs that fantastic's number one and when we step on you, you're just like a roach. Our foot, it weighs a ton.

He's the adoring. He's a ladies' man. So can't you understand that I'm done? So it's always the DJ. We call him Flash, Grandmaster Flash, Disco B, Easy Mike, and I'm the MC. You walk in the place, you listen to the bass, you see Melly Mel with a smile on his face. King of the throne of the microphone. should know by now should be left alone like When Mel came out with the discs to Eminem

He should have just went to fucking Rappers might be willing but they ain't able cuz I was their king straight from my cradle screamed and hollered shook my rattle Dreamed I defeated them all in battle. There was no food in my silver spoon, but I grew up hard and I grew up soon. I'm a righteous king and I'm hungry too, and I eat up punks that rap like you. He should have did that to Eminem and just called it a rap. To you, Mel, don't try to get new, new standard to know. Nobody never know.

These motherfuckers don't know you do that. I do. Motherfuckers don't know that Mel rhymed like me in Run and Rock Him. This is shocking. This shit should go viral. Y'all don't know Mel, Scorpio, and Raheem rhyme like fucking Big Daddy Kane.

Y'all just never heard it because they were making records. They wasn't fucking putting, they got bars that will out bar all these guys. You see, you're like, what the fuck yeah he said rappers might be willing but they ain't able because i was the king straight from my cradle screamed and hollered shook my rattle i dreamt i defeated them all in battle there was no food in my silver spoon but i grew up hard and i grew up soon and then mel said i'm a righteous king and

i'm hungry too he should have told him and i eat up chumpster rap like you. I met this shark. His name was Jaws. Started writing the rhymes like y'all write y'all. No, started biting my rhymes like y'all bite y'all. I started writing my rhymes. The shark grew and grew. But I was writing more rhymes than the shark could chew. Then the shark got sick and then he exploded because he didn't realize

that my rhymes was loaded. Flew in the air and into the sea and the whole universe knew the king was me. He done won the battle. You know what I'm saying? I'm sweating now. And when them come, they didn't go back at him. No, he didn't have to. He killed him.

You know what I'm saying? But everybody happened. He can't kill Mel because Mel is Mel. He got a lot of heat for that, but I thought it was hip-hop what he did. It was dope. No, it's cool he came back, but I'm saying me and Cass, he should have went like, I was sitting on the corner just to waste my time when I realized I was king of the rhyme. I got on the microphone, and what do you see?

The rest was my legacy. I was born to be the king of this hip-hop thing. When I came along like what was good about pete rocker is when we came back with down with the king down with the king right after he did that it was like yo we making that shit and it's funny when jay heard that shit jay says this that's the name of the album and that's the single right, that, that would, one little thing, you know, Bruce Lee says, I'm not afraid of the man who fucking practices a thousand techniques, I'm afraid of the man that practices one, I'm living with that, that work, because when we went to the studio, yo, we making that shit,

this and that, so Pete comes to me, and he's like, yo, you ain't got to be Kane. You ain't got to be Rakim. You ain't got to be Jay-Z. You ain't got to. I want that DMC shit. I'm confused. I'm like, because I'm thinking I got to write differently now and do, you know, motherfuckers are named shit that we do ad libs and fucking metaph metaphors and shit i don't i just think of my rhyme and say it over the beat give me that dmc shit and i didn't know what to do in the 90s

i'm fucking 35 years old and hip hop still young and shit like that no but what i'm just saying i'm at that time we were immensely right another water So Pete Rock says, he just asked me, what the fuck are you doing right now, DMC, with your life and all? Because remember, I wrote I'm DMC and the place to be, a true thing about me. Son of Byford, bro, DMC from Hollis, Queens. I was like, well, I'm on tour. Well, write about that shit. So I was like, okay, I'm taking the tours. I'm wrecking the land.

Hip-hop could change and it could have All the metaphors and shit But I keep it hardcore Cause it's dope man And just the raw old shit That I was doing in 76 Now it's my turn To get on the mic I'm going to do that shit now

Cause this audience Never seen it So I'm going to stand out I like that So I'm taking the tours Wrecking the land I keep it hardcore Cause it's dope man

These are the roughest Toughest words you ever wrote and it's not meant for, and I don't usually use profanity, but it's not meant for a hole like a slow jam. Sucker MCs could never swing with me because of all the things that I bring with me.

Only G.O.D. could be a king to me, and if the G.O.D. be in me, can a king out me? P-Rock was like like rhyme of the fucking year and then i did i just went in dmc and everywhere i go coogee rolled up on me q-tip rolled up on me bumpy knuckles rolled up on me but you said if the g-o-d-b-m-e then a king the microphone is branded when it's handed to me all right oh what i say a microphone is branded when it's handed to me,

I'm standing on this planet and I'm playing the MC. The MC fiends always seem to agree, because Rakim told me, the microphone fiend said, no, I'll do your shit. Rakim, Coogee Rap, and Bumpy. Imagine them three telling you

you're the dopest motherfucker ever. I was so fucking stoked. I mean, you absolutely are. But Down With The King, like I said, Down With The King brought us back. And because of Down With The King, we was able to go tour. We was back on MTV with the video. We was back on the radio. That's what hip hop does.

That's why I say hip hop is it's not old school as in old. Right. You know what I'm saying? You might know what I did in 86, but the 12-year-old kid now don't. So when he see that shit, he's new. Kids always ask me now, shit, yo, OG, you put it down harder than them youngins. But I'm putting it down at 59 like I did when I was 12 years old. I'm not thinking I'm going into the studio to sell records.

I ain't thinking about chart position. I'm thinking how can I make this fucking dope? What did you do when you was in your room at 15? So that's how I approached this craft of mine. Goddamn. And it's fucking fun.

It's fucking fun, man. What's one of the places that you've been to, been to the tour in the world that you was like, what the fuck am I doing here? I know you said Sudan earlier, but. During the war. During the war. Yeah, it was, it was definitely South Sudan. Yeah. Because everybody was walking around with machine guns. And then the student, well, the person that brought me out there, the police and the National Guard are the two warring factions.

So at any time. Shit could have popped up. All you got to do is just say one little wrong thing about the tribe or some shit, about the king. Because South Sudan has all the oil. North Sudan has all the reserves. So it's a constant fight over money and shit like that. But it definitely was South Sudan because this is scary. So we get in town for the—oh, let me shout out the guy that brought me this, a guy named Emmanuel Jal.

He was a boy's child soldier. And when he was nine years old, the rebel army came into his village and killed all the adults. And took all the kids and gave them guns to fight against the government. So at nine years old, him and his 40,

hold up, they come into your village and kill all the parents, all the adults. Guts. And he's the most well-spoken person you would ever see. But was a child killer. Was killing shit at nine years old. To arm, to cut, all that shit.

Yeah. So when he was nine years old, he was fighting him and his 40 friends. And he was out in the wilderness fighting. So they got tired of killing their own people. So they said, we're going to go AWOL and escape. Now, the problem is when you escape, the soldiers you're running from are going to kill you first shot on sight. And then the other soldiers from the government are going to shoot you because even if you say I'm coming, they think you got bombs or whatever. So they ain't trusting you so what they would do was what they would do was when the people

that they awol from would go raid a village the kids would go in there and eat the scraps but it got to the point where the other soldiers wasn't leaving us so long story short his friends were dying of starvation so it's just him and his boy, right? And imagine me and you, Nori, all our boys are dead. It's just me and you, 38, died of starvation. And I turn to you because I'm dying. And I look at you and I'm your boy. And I say, Nori, if I die tonight, it's okay if you eat me imagine that so jaw said his prayer to god wasn't deliver me this and that this serious prayer to god god what's the pros and cons of if i eat my friend and what's the pros and cons if i don't eat my friend so that's where he was at right then and there he gets saved by the u.n they take him... So he didn't have to eat his friend? Didn't have to eat him. Okay, all right, cool.

God bless. They take him to Nairobi to the rehabilitation center. He's a wild kid that was ill. So they're trying to educate him. He's a fucking beast. He said he was getting

the beef with other students. You ever see the horror movie shit? The students say something to him. He's taking a pen and pointing it through the hand. I'm like, he's that kid he's wow so one of the counselors and it's the promoter that brought you out there

yeah it's him but he's a he's a big white check this out one of the counselors is playing Run DMC Naughty by Nature Public Enemy.

So he hears it. What's that? What's that? So the counselor's like, oh, so you like this. What's that? What's that? He said that was the only time he felt something that was good to him. Oh, you want to hear this?

You know, imagine crazy African killer machine hears Naughty by Nature's Stuff the Counselors Play. Okay, here's the deal. Here's the deal, man, you know. Start going to school, this and that, just to hear the tape. Okay, so you hear the tape. Goes to school, show me something.

Becomes a straight-A student. Makes it to the university. Goes into the university. Majors in communications and music. Start starts to become an emcee from Sudan who gets to open for Nelson Mandela, this and that, whatever, whatever, whatever. So he does, because of hip hop, he said it was the only thing that made him feel like he was worth, and he could relate to it. So then he does all of that. He does all of this great stuff for his country, they bring him

to New York City to get honored by the Hard Rock. This is before the Hard Rock changed ownership, because the Hard Rock was in the big philanthropy stuff like that. So they bring him in, and one of the ladies from the Hard Rock movie, they was like, DMC, we have this

kid, tells me a story, come tomorrow we want to surprise him with you, cool. So I come to the him in, and one of the ladies from the Hard Rock movie, they was like, DMC, we have this kid, tells me a story. Come tomorrow, we want to surprise him with you. Cool. So I come to the luncheon, and there's a bunch of people in there. Like, he does incredible shit. So they said, D, just go sit at the end of the table. So I'm sitting at the end of the table, and he's speaking. He's meeting all these people.

And they're sitting there. Nobody announces me. And then he looks, and he sees me. Just starts crying right here. And he comes over to me, and he just cries on me. And he comes over to me and he just cries on me. And he's like, yo, we're on DMC, Naughty by Nature. Hip hop same. And he just tells me the story. And I'm like, I'm like blown away.

So then he goes, will you come to my country? And this is what I'm answering your question now. So I'm thinking, yeah. I answer, yeah, immediately. I'm thinking it question now. So I'm thinking, yeah. I answer, yeah, immediately. Not knowing what Sudan is. I'm thinking it's Japan and London. You know what I'm saying? So we fly out to South Sudan.

And we say we, run and? No, no, no. Just me, my DJ, Eric. Okay. And my security. And what was funny, this is a question. This is PMC. This is not funny.

When they show me the brochure of where we're staying at it's like oh a pool an air-conditioned building but we get there it's just huts no toilet bowl no toilet bowl no toilet oh my god hold up the The cut is fucking bugs everywhere. Right. To the point where it's so many bugs and they're so big, you just get, it's a waste of time. You get used to it. Fuck it. Okay, showtime.

To that point. So that was my wildest place, South Sudan. But the beauty of it is that they know our hip-hop. Right. And they value it. So we go to sound check. And if you look him up right now, he's the vice president of Sudan. This guy you were talking about?

Yeah, he wears cowboy hat and cowboy boots. So we see, we ain't seen none of this the whole time. All of a sudden sudden we look up we see Range Rovers we see Escalades we see Mercedes Benz and we see BMW and it looked like something out of a Tom Cruise Mission Impossible

movie they moving like that we just see this entourage of cars coming up to the place and shit right pulls up to like the shit in the movies those stunt drivers the motherfuckers exist they pull up right security gets out right so the vice president of south sudan gets out and we in the sound check and the vice president walks in there and this shit is scary man motherfuckers with machine guns this and that and you know the vice

president he's different where's the rapper rapper? Where's, I'm going to come to see the, like with that Idi Amin shit. Where's the rapper? I go, hi. My DJ is fuller. He's right here. So I come, the guy comes to me and he's literally

taking me like this. I come to, I want to see the rapper. Oh, this the rapper. Oh, this is the rapper. Oh, it's the rapper. I see the rapper. You mad strong, DMC. It's okay. He's doing that shit to me, and it's fuck yo.

He's like, it's the right. He's shaking me. It's the rapper and shit like that. So then, I want to see your show. And then he sits down, and it the show time, and he's sitting there. Now, the thing, what's funny about this story is that he's fucking the, you know, the war, like the Idi Amin shit. Warlord. I want to see your show, and he's sitting there.

So I'm thinking, yo, if I ain't dope, this motherfucker might kill me. Right? You know what I'm saying? Last battle you. But he's sitting there, this motherfucker might kill me. Right? You know what I'm saying? Last battle you. But he's sitting there, and everybody's around him. And all the people, it's about, what did you say, about 250 people? They all in the back like this. His soldiers? No, the regular people.

Oh, okay, the regular people. Okay, the crowd. You know, first when I was there like this, they like, oh, it's the MC. But when he came. Oh, when he came. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like some scary dictator shit. Like, I'm thinking, damn, if I ain't dope, this is going to be crazy. Right. So then my DJ, Charlie Chan, he just go, yo, DJ, just do what the fuck you do.

So I said, yeah, all right. You know, he's. Intense. I'm thinking, you know. So, yo, y'all come up to the front we pull the people up to the front we perform like

45 minutes we had those throw your hands and they knew the records knew the records knew the records wow so but that was

my craziest experience ever but you know Russia's cool we went to Moscow they know they fucking know Mobb Deep there right you know what I'm saying. We went to Moscow. They know. Right. They fucking know Mobb Deep there.

Right. You know what I'm saying? They know. They know underground and shit like that. But South Sudan, what was beautiful is they knew pop. They knew big. They knew our hip hop. But it was the scariest trip of my life.

Let me ask you, because you mentioned Pac and Big a couple times, right? And you said that you was on tour with Pac and Big together? No, no, no, no. They opened up for you. You opened with Pac and Big together no no no no they opened up for you opened up separate separate right we opened up for them so two-part question you saw their relationship that they were cool at one no no I never seen them together oh I mean we opened up for Pac and Big at two different times this was after they split up when I first met Pac what was crazy about Pac, we played, what's the biggest mall in the world?

I think it was Minnesota or something like that. Yeah. Mall of America. Mall of America, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we was doing a show there. It was open for Pac. And, yo, let's go to the mall.

You know, that's what you do when you go to the mall. So we go to the mall. And it was just crazy about, I saw this happen. When we walked in the mall, I don't know if they got a single Park out, but the security, the police officer just walked over and said, you take your hat off. Like, we walking in the mall, you know what I'm saying?

Jay got his hat. But the police, and then Park, yo, like, what the fuck? See, man, this is what I'm talking about. Yo, Park, calm down. This and that. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like, what the fuck? See, man, this is what I'm talking about. Yo, Pac, calm down. This and that. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, whatever. What I'm going to do is like, yo, man, how you going to tell Pac to end? You ain't telling me to take mines off.

I don't know if it was a Pac thing. It was after he shot the police or no? Probably was. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's probably why. That's probably why. Yeah, that's probably why.

But I saw that. But overall, Pac was brilliant. He was cool. He was funny. And all he could fucking talk about was the fuck he But I saw that. But overall, Pac was brilliant. He was cool. He was funny. All he could fucking talk about was the fuck he... I think he even made a whole record about it. His whole shit was trying to convince me that I'm legit. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Which is beautiful. Which is beautiful. But yeah, we hung with Pac. We hung with Big. Big was just like... Big was like... Who could I describe Big right? Big was just like fucking...

He was just lovable. Right. You know what Big was just like fucking, he was just lovable. You know what I'm saying? He was just funny, lovable. Him and Jay really got along because Jay's fly and shit. Jay smoked a lot of weed too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they had blunts. Yeah.

So where was you at when you kind of like seen their, like this is like, I want to say there's always been beef in hip-hop because like there's always been like the battles and stuff like that and those battles kind of like sometimes it it it it morbid into something of course but this was the first like this was the first different this was crazy like how did you feel like you know what i mean you being one of the architects of hip-hop, and these people taking it this far. Well, I kind of understood it, but I don't think people, I don't think the media, and I don't think people like us, we didn't get vocal enough. Because what was happening in the beginning of it, it was almost like the two rival high school teams, the players settled the beef on the field but if i see you fuck you this and that just in that so there was no um there was no this did not this there was no um determined there was no describing that this should just stay on record but then it was it was different it was more deeper because Pop felt something

personally was done to him. But with the East Coast West Coast we never seen it. No that was a media contrived thing.

We was going over there but see it's a little different. Yeah Church told us the same thing we just interviewed him and he said he was never affected by the East Coast West Coast.

No. He said he was yeah. Suge Knight was going to buy us And he said he was never affected by the East Coast West Coast. Nothing. He said he was never. You know what I'm saying? Never close to him. Suge Knight was going to buy us. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-ibillion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st,

and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson

stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.

I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J

from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Suge Knight was going to put Run DMC on Death Row Records. Connecting changes everything. Big Daddy Kane had the same at a meeting. Oh, we had the Beverly Hills. Would you have rocked the Defro chain? No. Okay.

I don't think we would have had to neither. Okay. We had a meeting with Shug. This was like when Defro was back. Right, at their height. Right, before the downfall of it. I do remember these rumors. You know what I'm saying? And we sat there with him, and he said,

I'm going to buy you off. Listen to that. You don't run the MC. You don't mean a lot to this culture. And he said, you know, you got to understand something about Shug Wright. Shug Wright, he had right intention. Because every time I see him, remember Eric? He used to just show up and come and sit down and say, man.

When y'all used to come here, huh? He used to eat your cookies? No, no. This was in a sushi restaurant. Or it was at the Mondrian Club or whatever. And he said, yo, we was just amazed. And he said, and Shook said this, we was just so amazed that when your cast came here from New York, and he said this, we were just so amazed to see how you're stuck together. Because remember, Run DMC, LL, we moved together.

It was just something about, I don't know. Beastie Boys? Was Beastie Boys a part of that? Yeah. Yeah. And he talked about that. But he said he was going to bring us to Death Row because he says, Death Row, we at the top right now. And y'all should be with the top row.

You know, that whole shit. And then somebody else had told me, now that motherfucker was doing that shit so he could fucking take the kings from the east and throw it in their face. Yo, I don't even got you over on DMCs. No, I didn't think about it like that. I don't think so. You know what I'm saying?

Because he did that with Hammer, too, where he brought Hammer. I mean, yeah, Hammer's on the west, but I think he genuinely appreciated it. No, he did it three times that I sat with Shook personally. No, Rah-Rah, I didn't see all of that. He generally, like, was, they wanted to have the thing I talked about that we were doing with hip-hop outside of the business. So I think Suge wanted to have Run DMC as the holy grail.

It's like the ultimate trophy. If you're a hip-hop head and you have power and money It's like the ultimate trophy. Right. If you're a hip-hop head and you have power and money, what's the ultimate trophy? I got run DMC and I gave up a lot of money. And I remember the night Pop died,

we was the... What was the club that they had in Vegas? Was it... Vegas? Yeah. I'm thinking of Biggie. 626?

Yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. something like that. Something like that, yeah. So we was hired by them to perform at the after party. For the Tyson fight. For the Tyson fight. Wow.

Oh, that time. This is when the Luxor was new. I got married at the Luxor. Yeah, this is when the Luxor was new. It was flashy. So I'll never forget. She brought us there, paid for everything. We used to hire in entertainment.

So y'all was there that night in Vegas? Let me tell you what happened. Holy shit. So we get a call. All right, we get some call. It's Shook. Yo, this is a funny J story. Yo, me and Pac coming to get y'all.

Y'all going to ride to the fight with us. Because remember, who was in the 750 with them? Nobody was in the backseat. Me running Jay was supposed to be in that backseat. He calls. Calls Alexa. Yo, I'm coming to get y'all. Park, we want y'all to ride to the fight with us. Y'all going ahead without us. Why? what's the problem jay's getting dressed huh what are you talking about just shook don't understand that when jay would get dressed jay would have all his clothes out there it's worse than your wife or girl getting how does this look this and that for like three hours? The reason why we didn't ride

to the fight with Pocket because Jay was getting dressed. Jay would spend hours. And he said, seriously, how does this look? Don't tell him. It would be a fashion show. Eric,

am I lying? Jay's getting dressed. Well, in this case, this is a blessing. Right. A huge blessing. So we say, we'll meet you at the after party. We get to the after party. Hammer's there. The whole crew, everybody's there. Mel, everybody's there, this and that. So yeah. Did he have on those pants? No, he didn't have the pants on. Oh, my bad. Mother Hammer. This was the suit, rich. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he have one of those pants? No, he didn't have the pants on. Oh, my bad. Brother Hammer. This was the suit, rich. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The tuxedo joint. I remember that. I remember that. Hammer. So we in the club waiting for the fight to end. All of a sudden, one dude comes in. It's about maybe 100 people in there. They all leave.

Empty club, music off. A guy comes in with a briefcase. To me, Ron and Jay. Everybody leaves. Guy comes with the briefcase. He puts the brief it up it's all cash 200 grand in cash yeah y'all getting paid tonight there's no show go home wow yo we get we got to pay like we didn't know what's going on so next morning i had an afternoon flight i'm in the gym on it on a treadmill and then CNN. Last night in Vegas, two podcast shows. Oh, shit. That's why

it happened. So I didn't find out why I got shot until the next morning. And I find out that's why. Y'all, I'm talking about we in the club like this, honey, motherfucker. One dude comes in, the whole club war. Guy comes in like shit out of the movies. Briefcase paid us in cash.

Y'all go home, no show tonight. I didn't find out until the next morning that Pac is showing. No. But the reason why, you could ask Eric, we coming to get y'all. And I'm like, oh, shit, I'm hanging with Pac and Shug. No, you're not. Why, Eric? Because Jay's getting dressed.

And you was at the Luxor as well. At the Luxor. Because that picture with Pac and Shug is in front of the Luxor. That's at the Luxor as well. At the Luxor. Because that picture with Pac and Suge is in front of the Luxor. That's at the Luxor. The one in the car? Yeah, that's in front of the Luxor. That's where I got it. That's that night.

Yeah. They left and we had to wait for Jay to get dressed. Yeah, that was my favorite hotel at the time. Crazy. Yeah, hell yeah. That show's awesome. I love the Luxor. That came out there.

Yeah, exactly. We did it the same time. That's crazy. Wow, I would have never put you guys in that scenario. I wouldn't have either. That's crazy, right? If you would have never said that, I would have never. But, you know, it's like, yo, who are we going to get to run DMC?

Right. That's like, oh, shit. You know what I'm saying? Right. So that's honorable. It's like, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? They could have went and got, Pac could have did the after party.

Right. They wanted to work Defro wanted us so they can sit there as the audience that's fly shit like what

man wild do you want to go back to the Dominican thing oh yeah the Dominican thing is the craziest thing ever alright so

when did I hear that you was Dominican I where was this at MTV or something yeah, so when did I hear that you was Dominican? Where was this at? MTV or something? Yeah, yeah, because I did a special on my adoption journey.

Okay. When Down With The King came out, right? Uh-huh. Put us back on the road, back on the charts. The very next day after the video,

I woke up and I wanted to kill myself. And I didn't know why. I don't know. I just woke up and said, I don't want to live no more. Wow.

God bless. And there was this void in me, and I didn't know what it was. And I sat there, why am I fucked the fuck? And I sat there, and I was like, yo, you're back at where you was, this and that. That's not enough. Something's missing. It was just something missing. And I was like, okay, let me look at my life.

Darrell McDaniels from Hollis Queens New York Banner's my mother Bifer's my father Alph is my brother Run's my pal Jay's my DJ this hip-hop thing I went first to go go first of all planet first on cover Rolling Stone first with the Sneaker Deals this and now I'm back with you so why am I fucking feeling like this and I didn't know what the fuck that shit was and the feeling just stuck with me. Just stuck with me. Stuck with me. Stuck with me. And I'm living with it. I'm functioning. And what was crazy at this time was in 1990, I got diagnosed with acute pancreatitis.

Because I was drinking a case of 40s a day. A case? A case. A case of 6 or 12? 12. And it's 40s. I put a refrigerator in the back of my truck so I didn't have to stop at the grocery store. And this is OE or St. Ives?

OE. OE, okay. St. Ives was fake. All right, cool. I told you earlier, I hate fake shit. When that shot's so cute, that's fake shit. You don't even take that conversation. Malt liquor.

But it's got to be old gold. Was old gold malt liquor too? Yes. Old English 800. The Beastie Boys Brass Monkey is, because we wrote Slow and Low with them, Paul Revere. We wrote Slow and Low for them. We wrote Paul Revere for them. And their Brass Monkey opening rhyme is from my Old English rhyme.

I had a rhyme that was about Old English. I got this rhyme that's more than real. When you drink Old English, here's how you feel. You reach in the freezer for a 40 ounce or 32 ounce, whichever counts. You fill each bottle for the one that's cold. It's got to be cold when you're drinking no gold, but you might get the one that hot. You got to get it hot. That's all they've got. $1.35, that is the price. That's not too much if you want to get nice. You pay your money, walk out the door. You say to yourself, I remember that store. You look around for a place to stand with a quarter old English inside your hand. You crack the quart, you put it to your lip, you tilt it slightly, and you take a sip. Now by now, you should know the deal because that one sip you already feel. You feel in both, so you try to guzzle and you do it again because it ain't no puzzle. So I had this whole English rhyme that they just said, we got this rhyme, that's more than real.

When you drink brass muggy, it's how you feel. So I was drinking a case of 40s a day and I got acute pancreatitis. I was going through, I didn't have no... Well, I guess this is a symptom of depression. I can't drink no more. But then down with the king comes out. So when that elevation came, it pushed me further down. So I got to the point where I didn't want to live

with this feeling in me, right? So I said, I'm going to kill myself. But before I go, I got records, I got videos. I think there's two books on us. I want to leave a book because I want people to know Daryl, the guy behind the King of Rock. So I came up with the idea, just in case I kill myself tomorrow, I want to write a book and I'm going to go, yo, what's up, world?

I'm Daryl McDaniels. You know me, DMC from the groundbreaking rap group Run DMC. First to go gold, first to go platinum, first on the cover of Rolling Stone, first with the Secret Deals. Everything that hip-hop is doing, they say it's because of me running Jay. But I'm really just Daryl McDaniels, no different from any boy or girl on the face of the earth. I was born May 31st, 1964. And I was like, I was born May 31st. I realized I didn't know no details about the day I was born.

So I called my mom's up. Now, at this time, for anybody listening, I should have said, Mom, I want to kill. Like, I should have let it out. But guilt, shame, not wanting to be vulnerable, plus I'm a rapper. I got to be cool, and I'm a black man, and all that shit. And I don't want to bother my mother with this stuff. I'll handle it by myself, which is the wrong thing to do. But I said, Mom, I'm writing this stuff. I'll handle it by myself, which is the wrong thing to do. But I

said, Mom, I'm writing this book, and just to make it more interesting for the reader, I want to know three things about the day I was born. How much did I weigh? What time? What hospital? So she tells me, I love you. I love you, son. I love you, too. I hung up the phone. Hour goes by. She calls back with my father. At this point in my life, I'm an

alcoholic, suicidal, metaphysical, spiritual wreck who's thinking of killing himself, who can't drink no more because I wanted to drink to help me deal with the emotions and stuff that I was feeling so I could suppress those emotions. And the phone rings, and my mother says, it's my mother and father. So I'm 35 years old, down with the king is killing me, and I'm suicidal. We have something else to tell you. So I'm thinking she's going to go, well, when you was born, there was a power outage in a hospital

who gave birth to you by candlelight. No, she hit me with this. We have something else to tell you. What is it? You was a month old when we brought you home and you're adopted and we love you. Bye, click. Well, they hung up like that?

Because they didn't. They didn't know what to do. But I got it when she hung up the phone. I know my mother and father. Honey, honey, he's asking. We got to tell him right now. So they rushed to the phone. You tell him.

No, you tell her. I can see my mother there. Yes, it was month old when you took me. Bye. I was 35 years old at a month old. I found out I was adopted at age 35. Then I found out that I was a foster kid. So long story short, that made me really want to kill myself.

Because of that revelation, I started drinking again. And I'm not supposed to be drinking. And my wife, love my wife, sorry. She keeps it real. I say I'm drinking because I'm making excuses. I'm drinking because I'm celebrating a newfound part of my identity that I didn't know about. She looked me in my eye. I love women.

Motherfucker, you fucking drinking because you can't handle the fact that you just found out that you was adopted. Because think about my whole career. Christmas time in Hollis, Queens. Because you don't go there yet. But don't stop doing my interview. So I was 30. I found out that I was adopted when I was 35 years old.

And then the Dominican thing came. They called back. They called back. Ring. And this was funny. Are you okay? You know what I'm saying? Because they just released the interview.

And then they go, well, all we know is your mother was in Hamilton Heights, right up to above Washington Heights. Who's in Washington Heights? Dominican. And we think you're Dominican. So this is my mom and father. I'm dealing with all this anxious emotion. They tell her, I'm Dominican. So from that day for five years, I'm running around the world telling everybody,

I just found out that I'm adopted Dominican in the Dominican. I love my wife again. My wife's like, Diablo B. No, you want to know? I went out, there's a Dominican rapper. Anybody know his name? Alpha? It's a fake. No, no. He's an old school.

Somebody. Diego. No, Diego's from Puerto Rico. Diego's from Puerto Rico, but they thought he was Dominican Rico. There's a Dominican rapper who's famous. So I go out and buy all this Dominican rap music. I go out and buy Dominican cookbooks.

Yeah. Cookin' platanos. Wow. Daddy Yankee tells me, and I believe in himself, dude, you should be the grandmaster of the Dominican parade

I'm going far I'm telling Bill Adler from Def Jam I'm telling Bill you could ask Bill I'm calling him tell him to give me everything on Dominican art

that's Bill Adler and all of this stuff I love my wife my wife's always she's the whole time Darryl don't you think you should find out? No, no, my mother

and father-in-law are fighting for them. They know what it was. So going on, going on, going on, going on. So long story short, I do a search and I find my birth mother.

I grew up in Queens. She was in Staten Island all this time. Wow. Which is crazy. A barrel kind of like over. Right over. And the reason why

she was in Hamilton Heights, she was living in Hamilton Heights at the time she was pregnant with me. No, she was living in Hamilton Heights before she got pregnant with me. Her father moved the family to Staten Island, but her boyfriend was there. So she would always leave Staten Island, go back to Hamilton Heights to see her boyfriend. And the thing was, she was, what, 18 years old. She was like, yo, don't fuck around and get pregnant. She went around and got pregnant with my first brother.

I didn't know I had yet. They were like, yo, don't do this shit. She got pregnant with me. When she came over with me, there was no way they could keep me. They gave me up. To answer your question, I figure out, I see my birth bump and I, yeah, this and that, boom, bang, it's good to meet you. I go, who's Dominican?

And she, I say, I'm Dominican, right? She says, no, who told you that? Is somebody in this family Dominican? And I'm like, uh-oh. I said, all right. Because that, the month before I meet my wife, there's a Dominican publication that I just ran into this guy walking down Broadway by Astor Place. And he was like, yo, DMC, we want a venue for hip hop. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

And I'm Dominican, too. I did this whole interview about being Dominican. So when my mother, I said, uh-oh. I had to call the guy up. Yo, yo, we got a problem. We got a big problem. We got a big problem. We got a big problem. I said, what's that?

I just found my birthmark. I found out that I ain't Dominican. You should have heard this before. Uh-oh. That's not good, bro. You know, like, that whole thing. But then we squared it up. But the cool thing about it was he got back on the phone and said,

I told my whole audience and stuff like that. But he said, no, you're down with us anyway because you're DMC. You know what I'm saying? But I thought I was Dominican, Noreen, because I found out at age 35 that I was adopted and it blew my mind. And after me and my mother had those two conversations,

the next thing that happened was this. The phone rang for a week because it's all my cousins that I grew up with who are now 35 40 50 not your own no right then I'm a blood cousin okay these are I'm thinking I'm one of them they call and go oh gee we so glad your mother we held that in for 35. Oh, shit. Oh, they knew? Yes. Oh. Derek, Samantha,

Eve, Craig, Sharon, Sonia, all of them, when they, Christmas in Hollis, right? In my house in Hollis, Queens, if it was Christmas, Thanksgiving, graduation, wedding, it was always at the McDaniels family house.

Everything my mom's putting on. So my cousins revealed this to me. And I'm talking about since they were little. Every time we're going over to McDaniels for Thanksgiving, we're going over to McDaniels for Christmas, we're going over to McDaniels for the birthday, we're going over to McDaniels because such and such graduated. Kids, kids, come to the room.

Sit down. These kids for 35 years. What's the rule when we go over to Mr. and Mr. McDaniel's house? Nobody let Daryl know he's adopted. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So, yeah, I'm getting ready to do a movie about, not a biopic. I'm getting ready to do a movie about that situation.

Yeah, nah, that's just. And the thing getting ready to do a movie about that situation. The thing about it was, it's just two things. When I met other adopted people, I love my parents for not telling me because they were afraid that it might do something to me. Because my brother, who's their biological, Alfred, he says, what happened was my mother

had other foster kids that went back to their families. Because I remember cousins that I had that I didn't see no more as we were growing up had other foster kids that went back to their families. Because I remember cousins that I had that I didn't see no more as we were growing up. Those were kids that went back. And my parents officially adopted me when I was five years old. But my brother Alfred said, we had this other kid, what was his name? His name was Oscar. I remember the day he left.

And I just remember my brother's three. I think my brother was six. And I just remember my brother telling me, Oscar's mother's here to get him. And I'm like, okay, my aunt's here to get Oscar. I'm going to see him next week. Never saw him again. Then there was other little girls and stuff like that. But my brother said this will happen. And this was what's crazy about all the comic books and all this shit. And this has to do with Riggs too. So every kid went back and I'm in there playing with my toys in the porch in Hollis, Queens. And my mother, adopted mother, looks over at my father, and this is funny.

What are we going to do with this one? It's like a pet taking back to the shelter. My father says this. My brother says, oh, you know what? I think we'll adopt this one because you never know. He might grow up and do something that'll change the world. Wow. They said it in front of you.

In front of my brother. Oh, okay. Because he was, I'm little. He heard them say that. And then, you know, he even called Dara. I'm so glad Mama told you that because I didn't want you to find out on their deathbed. Because a lot of times you're adopted that don't get told. We cleaning out their house.

And I go, what's these papers? That would have been really crazy. So at least they got to get it out before they passed away. So my brother, what I was going to say was, his was crazy about all the superheroes. When I was growing up, the only people that I felt I could connect to were the superheroes in the comic books. And if you think about it, most superheroes are nerdy, geeky, awkward people struggling in their regular lives.

But then Riggs hit me, but they turn into these people. Isn't Spider-Man an orphan? I was just going to say that. Okay. Let's talk about Riggs. So Riggs, we have this comic book meeting, and we're doing that, and boom, bang, bang.

About two or three weeks later, Riggs discovers my adoption story. So I come back in the office, and we're doing that, and boom, bang, bang. About two or three weeks later, Riggs discovers my adoption story that's out, so I come back in the office, and he's doing this. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams

and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then. they'll say, when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

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And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort. You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes.

I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard to hear this and more things on the journey of healing you can listen to just heal with dr j from the black effect podcast network on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast at&t connecting changes everything

i'm like hi rick same. Same way when it meant. And he goes like this, yo, D, this is fucking crazy. And Rick says, yo, D, you are really on some superhero shit. I was like, what are you talking about? He says, yo, most superheroes are adopted or have a family issue or Superman came from somewhere.

That's what my mother and father did. Clark, there's something we need to tell you. Not really from, we love you, but you're not really yours. What? You have this thing. That's what my mother did father did. Clark, there's something we need to tell you. You're not really from we love you, but you're not really yours. What? You have this thing. That's what my mother did. Spider-Man. From Queens that had to be raised by Aunt May. Batman. What happened? Seeing his

parents get killed in front of us. Everybody has those issues, but all of that led to me. When I first met Riggs, he goes, do you like my superhero? Going back to that, when I found my birth mother, she goes, I know you're dying to know why I gave you up. My birth mother's name is Bronsenia. My adoptive parents thought I was actually Dominican because of the whole Washington House, Hamilton Heights. But when they was doing the adoption transaction,

they just remember, they thought my mother's name was Bernada. So Bernada in Dominican, the area, that's what they thought. But my mother's name is Berencina. But she says, I know you're dying to know why I gave you up. And I was like, shit, lady, that's an understatement. And she hit me with this. I gave you up. And I was like, shit, lady, that's an understatement. And she hit me with this. I gave you up to give you a chance. So then all of this went back to the void.

When down with the king went back up. When down with the king went up and I went into the depression, that was, you know, it's like when the God Zeus says, Mercury, fly down there and reveal to him who he really is. When I went into the Depression, when I met my birth mother, she said, you was going through a depression right that time? 1993, down with the king. She said in 1993, her secret that she knew she had given me up, her best friend turns to her. No, her daughter turns to her. My sister, Jahida, turns to her. No, her daughter turns to her. My sister, Jahida, turns to her. They're watching an adoption thing on TV, and my sister turns to my mother, jokingly, you don't have no secrets out there. My mother says, yes, I do. Jahida goes, well, we gave this kiss. So they

never knew it was me. I found I had a sister and two brothers I didn't know about. My older brother, Mark, to this day, looks like the 86 DMC. Glasses, goatee, and this is going to blow your mind. He draws. So his whole life from Rockbox to Down with the King, his whole life he got this. Mark, Mark, come here. That guy DMC could be your brother, 86. Mark, Mark, come by, 88. I know motherfucking DMC could be my brother. Come to find out, DM, come here. That guy DMC could be your brother, 86. Mark, Mark, come by 88. I know motherfucking DMC could be my brother.

Come to find out DMC's really. How crazy is that? So, yeah, I found out that I was adopted. I thought I was Dominican because I was trying to grasp on any identifying information to fill the void. And all of this is how you segued into advocating for mental health. Yes, exactly. And can you talk about some of the stuff you're doing in that? Yeah, yeah.

So out of that, hold up. This is crazy. It didn't end there, though. Alcoholic suicide, a metaphysical wreck who just found out that he was adopted and was a foster kid. Jam Master Jay gets shot and killed. And then it didn't end there yet.

I remember my father, three months later, my father died. I remember the night Jay died, my father goes, why would anybody want to kill Jay? This is such a... Then my father died. So imagine what I was dealing with. But then I met another adopted person who said, D, there's something that you need to do. I was like, what's that?

And when I found out I was adopted, remember I had pancreatitis, I started drinking again. So I'm drinking and stuff. But then somebody said, D, you need to go to therapy. At first, I ain't going to no fucking therapy. And then I said, okay, fuck it. With Tony Stark, so Peter Parker go to therapy. I had to depend on my God.

So I went to therapy and I found out therapy is really cool. And I wasn't ashamed to talk about it because hip hop has taught me you'll keep it real. So how the work started was I go to therapy and in therapy, the therapist doesn't help you. Therapy helps you. The therapist doesn't help you. So a lot of people don't want to do, no, you got to go, because the therapist is just a decoy to do two things for you, because you haven't done it with yourself. Two things happen. Say stuff to yourself that you said before but you didn't listen to. Or you say stuff that you need to hear you say to yourself.

Right. But you don't want to say it to you in the mirror. That's hard, facing yourself. So you face, I went to therapy, it's cool. I got clean and sober and whatever, whatever. So when I get out of therapy, the reason why this book happened and the reason why I do what I do is for a very funny reason. My partner, Run, during that time had Run's House. Very successful show.

Ten seasons of it. Was in the bathtub with a blackberry. Yeah. Remember that? So the first season, people would watch it and they'd go, I know at the end finale, DMC's going to show up. I didn't show up season one. I know this shit.

I didn't show up season two, three. So after I get out of therapy and rehab, I get this question, Nori, everywhere I go. Why you ain't on Run's house? What's the beef? The whole social media shit. And this and that. JMC's poor and they don't care.

Russell and Run got Bentleys and this and that. No, no, no. The reason why I run the MC ain't together is because Jay's dead. Oh, I forgot about that. We can't replace our fucking drummer. Oh, I forgot about that. So where you been, DMC? And me keeping it real, I go, well, I was going to kill my, I tell people this, but I just told you.

So these people are coming at me on this celebrity DMC shit. They see the mighty king of rock who walked his way in his Adidas while telling the world how tricky life could be. But now I'm saying, yo, I was going to kill myself. I was, and everybody was going, 12, when I say the 40, yo, I was going to kill myself. I was alcohol. And everybody was going, 12. When I say the 40s. 12, 40. And then two things. 12 fucking 40s.

Yeah. Over the phone, you're this and that. But every time I would do that, E, I would get this reaction. These people would stop, look around like the CIA was around. And they would whisper to me, I've never told anybody this, D, me too. Wow. Now, they didn't tell their workers, family. They're struggling like I was.

But because I'm DMC, and I just revealed that to them, now they're safe. They would tell me. But this is when it hurt me. This is what got me working. If it wasn't them, they would look around. And this is what stigma exists. People are guilty and ashamed and afraid. But this is the one that I hate the most.

They would look around. And if they didn't say me too, they would go, I've never told anybody this. But my mother, my daughter, my father. So that hit me. You mean for the last eight years, your daughter's home, smoking meth and struggling, and you're worried about how people are going to think about you for having that daughter? So I said, let me get more vocal about it. So I just started going to wherever I was invited. Once people read my story, I would show up and I'd tell my story.

I would go to high schools. I would go to middle schools. I would go to group homes. I would go to foster care agency. I would go to hospitals. I would go to high schools. I would go to middle schools. I would go to group homes. I go to foster care agency I would go to hospitals. I would go to fire departments I will go to police since because a lot of police are having mental issues across the board every time I talk I realize What this world has been preparing me for through the hip-hop The king of rock shit was just a setup for what I was really put here to do.

I found out that I'm a billion times more powerful telling people when shit isn't going good for me. My whole career was Christmas time, Hollis Queens, I'm the devastating dissident, I always reported to y'all, my goodness, and it was very inspiring. It's even more inspiring when I admit that I'm vulnerable, scared, afraid, weak, and confused. Because then those people go, you know what?

I'm going to go get help, too. Yeah, you become relatable. So that's why I do the work. My joke is because of Pete rocking down with the king. I talk about mental health because that was a catalyst. Right. You know what I'm saying? Because in 88, if y'all remember in from, no, 89, we put out a flop album.

Thank you. Okay. We put out a flop album called Back From Hell. Y'all don't remember that. I don't remember that. You remember the F? No? Do y'all remember Pause when we was doing New Jack Swamp?

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was part of my depression. I talk about this book. Jay was fly and he was doing that. So Jay had us doing these New Jack Swing records. And then Paws was good. People say, oh, that shit was good and this and that. I didn't want to do it, but I did it to please them.

Right. And it made me drink. Because when Jay said, let's do it now, there's nothing wrong with New jack swing and and all of that shit i just don't like it right this wasn't i don't want to rap over that shit but when i was in therapy my therapist said motherfucker you i was diagnosed with suppressed emotions all the drinking i was doing is because i didn't want to tell people the truth about how i don't want to do that record i don't want to go there i did so much people pleasing that I was suppressing with the alcohol.

So when I got out of rehab, when I got into rehab, this happened to me. My therapist, I was, what, 36? So my therapist probably was like 46, 48, a white guy with a white doctor thing and a clipboard. So he comes in for my first therapy session in rehab. And he sits down and he says, Darryl, during your career with Front DMC, that Ron J. Russell or anybody at the record company do anything to get you upset.

And I'm sitting there and I lie. No. And, you know, he's sitting, he's the doctor, and he got his glasses. And I go, no, he looks up at me. I don't need the glasses. He does this. Takes his glasses off and starts unbuttoning the white coat. So I'm sitting there, what this motherfucker

gonna do? I hear some shit and he sits down and it's crazy. I wear him all the time. He had on an ACDC shirt. I guess he did that to break the ice. He sat down. He looked at me. And he said, you're a goddamn motherfucking liar. And when he said that to me, yeah, man, in 1983, remember?

I started remembering that Russell did this. I started remembering everything. Profile. It all poured out of me. So when I got out of rehab, this is funny. He says to me, from now on, D, be hip hop. Keep it real. Always tell the truth.

And he said, it might upset some people. They might not like you for that moment, but they'll fucking get over it. But I also got to be ready to receive it, too, when they do it. But then he says this. He says, from now on, speak your truth, tell the truth no matter what, right? And I go, even if my wife asked me if she's fat in this, true story, not that one. Y'all listeners out there, this is life. Not that one. But now, you asked me my opinion, I give it. Truth, I don't even want to say truth, set you free. He just said, from now on,

my manager, Eric, hates me sometimes. I'm going to give you $500,000. Who is it? What is it doing? Where are they from? I don't like it. Nope. He think I'm crazy. But I'd rather make $100,000 five times and take the $500,000. I'd rather make $150, do the math, to get the... I'd rather make $100,000, $10,000 times to get the million than taking the million for it. And that's what I was doing my whole career. And the reason why I bring up the Back From Hell album,

if you listen to the Back From Hell album, the only guy that knew something was going wrong artistically with Run DMC was Dante Ross. You know who Dante Ross is? Yeah. When we put Back From Hell out and Paws out, he was like, that motherfucker must have been in therapy.

That motherfucker, what the fuck is Ryan Dempsey doing New Jack Smith's bullshit? Like, he went in. He'll say it too, he'll say it. No, he kept it real, kept it real. But that's what I should have did. And it could have went like this. Yo, then y'all do the records.

Y'all, I have no problem. I don't even want to be on the record in the first place when i was gonna be so so i'm already there but then the whole thing was um i remember when i lost my voice russell even told me one day but you gotta show up the motherfuckers ain't buying run they buy and run dmc so you stand there shut up i did millions of show and i couldn't run wow imagine that and you was lip syncing? Jay was playing the vocals and rhyming over with me.

So in the moment, people don't know. But that went on for probably like maybe two and a half years, maybe. So imagine how I felt. And then I didn't realize those are part of the suicidal thoughts. I talk about it in the book. I'm thinking I was only put here

to rhyme. Your superpower. The superhero loses his superpower. What happens? But then you realize who you really are. I didn't have to go get to operation for my voice. It just came back. I was hanging with Chuck D one day

and I rhymed with him. It's like that superhero I started glowing and shit like but it was there. Wait, so you didn't get an operation? So you're just sitting there with Chuck D? Well, two mental health thing is

it's all very mental. When I was in therapy my therapist said, don't let nothing define you or your situations or your operations and i was like what do you mean how do you do that she said you've been doing it your whole life and i never knew this she said she brought up the where livers can be never singing the good news is that there is a crew it's about time for a brand new group all other things won't be the same but then she said don't you know all of your most powerful

lyrics, like the one that you just did with you, start with this is crazy. And I'm not religious. I think religious divides. I think politics divides. The arts is the only thing that succeeds where politics and religion fails. Politics and religion fails us. I agree. I'm

saying it, yeah. Yes, you holy motherfuckers. That shit fails us. I agree. I'm saying it, yeah. Yes, you holy motherfuckers. That shit fails us. But the arts succeeds where politics and religion fail. But she said to me this. She said, don't you know most of your powerful rhymes

start with the two words I am? I'm DMC. I'm the son of Byford. I'm the king of rock. I'm the devastating, my controller DMC. All my I am of Biford. I'm the king of rock. I'm the devastating, my controller, DMC. All my I am's manifested into, I was imperfect.

I didn't need nothing else. But when I forgot about that, and I went to a bunch of voice doctors. One doctor told me, and this is before I knew it was mental. There's nothing physically wrong with you. Your voice is a little red.

Your throat is a little red because you're out there every night pushing it, but nothing's coming out. Straining, right. And Obama had wrote a book, and in the book, he said, your voice isn't how you sound. Your voice is who you are. So when I found, when I'm adopted, oh, there's my birth mother, screw in the missing print, pop. Pop. It was all mental. You ever spoke to Vinny Siegel?

Because he lost his voice. I haven't spoken to Vinny Siegel. I knew, what's his name, the DLC. He was in a car accident. Yeah. the DLC. He was in a car accident. But I was diagnosed with the thing called spasmodic dysphonia, which is involuntary spasms of your vocal cord. But my crazy

diagnosis was, you even have one or the other. It's ab doctor or ad doctor. Like in the gym, they have an ab doctor machine for your legs and an ad doctor. The doctor diagnosed me with both of them wow and then i was they gave me the botox shot with the needle the needles about this long i went to mount sinai

and they put botox in your vocal cords to stop the electric impulses from your brain getting there so they did it to me and i passed out and And it was like, give it a number of days, the voice number came back until I found my birth mother. It's crazy. So now I think what's healing me is therapy is addressing your issues. Because when I speak, one dude was like, DMC, I ain't got no money like you. I can't afford a therapist.

So what do you tell somebody struggling with an emotion or condition, suicidal, whatever, whatever? I say, sometimes you don't need money for therapy. I say, in your darkest hour, when even if you can't smile, there's somebody that you think about that brings a smile to your spirit. That's the person you go to and do what people was doing to me, but I had to get it out of. You go to, I said, it might be, you know how you grew up in the neighborhood

and you love Mr. Hooper, who runs the store. I've known you since you, or the barber that cut your hair. Those are the people you go up to and say, yo, I've never told anybody. You got to start like this so they understand where this coming.

I've never told anybody this, but I want to kill myself. There's nothing wrong. And when I speak, there's nothing wrong with a person saying they feel like killing themselves. What do you mean? No, it's not a good thing, but there's nothing wrong with it. For instance, if it's hot in here, could I tell you not to feel hot? If it's 100 degrees in there, can I tell you not? If it's cold outside, can I tell you go out there and not feel cold?

No. Can I tell you not to feel hungry? So I'm realizing it's a feeling that they have. What you have to do when you approach with that, sit down with the person. And even if it's chemical, there's a catalyst, a who, what, when, where, and why that causes that feeling. Find out who, what, when, or why is doing it, and you remove. My strength of not drinking again, and I went to rehab. And when I was in rehab, I was in there for 30 days. Oh, I was going to do this, that Leo's thing,

but I get that I don't need you to speak. Just come on stage with me. Motherfucker, I don't care. I done prepared a whole fucking speech about your ass. That ain't got nothing to do with this fucking music bullshit. I got to help you, King. You know how we go. Thank you for coming.

Because he's telling, he's calling Eric and wanting me to come. And I'm getting back. I got to speak. I'm going to speak about him and Kathy. And you'll be in my room. I don't need you to speak. Just come on stage. I went ahead in the back, you know what I'm saying?

Because I don't like to be here. But I got to commend Lior because Lior is part of the people that saved my life. Because when I was going through this, Lior actually paid for my rehab for me to go to the rehab. Wow. Daryl's drinking. He can't fucking die. We can't have Daryl die. And it was Kathy.

I love Kathy. Kathy Simeonides. I was disappointed she wasn't in L.A., Lior. Fuck is up with that. But he had Kathy's daughter. Well, okay. That's working for him L.A., Lior. Fuck is up with that. Well, he had Kathy's daughter. Well, okay. That's working for him now. It was blood then.

Yes, yes, yes. So Kathy went to Lior, and Lior was, I'd pay for it. Daryl, go to fucking rehab. I went to fucking rehab. So I got to come in, and I tell Lior, it wasn't because of this music shit. I was going to need you at a dive. The reason why we met was much deeper than this music shit, but it's good that the hip-hop

brought us together. So I got out of rehab and now I go, I did a book called Daryl's Dream, which is a story about me in third grade getting teased, bullied and picked on because I want to say my poem. And other kids don't think it's cool, but then I say my poem, I get a standing ovation. Now all the motherfucking

kids want me to teach them how to say poetry. All of a sudden, my cool. Just like Nori. All the motherfuckers that was coming, motherfucker, run. All the bullies and the hard rocks. Oh, now you want to be my friend, motherfucker. They like, they waving at me now. You know what I'm saying?

You're the motherfucker that took my sneakers over there. You're the motherfucker that snapped me up. You made me run. Now all the hard rocks want to be. But it starts the same stories. Okay. You made me rhyme, now all the hard rocks want to be. But it's the same stories. Okay. So now, you know, every year since my childhood,

it doesn't feel like this holiday unless I hear this record. Right? And I will also give it to Mariah Carey as well. Every year. So let me ask you, every year at Christmastime. But we cooler because it's hip-hop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do y'all go platinum every year at Christmas time- But we cooler because it's hip hop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, we got a lot of age. Do y'all go platinum every year at Christmas time? No, because all the money goes to the Special Olympics.

Wow. Publishing, album sale, all the money goes to the Special Olympics. Oh, y'all was trying to be good niggas back then. No, we didn't want to do that shit either. No. No, let me tell you. He said no. Another walked in.

We didn't want to do that shit. When they approached us, they want you to do it. No, that's corny, fake. There ain't going to be no Christmas wrapping elves. Like, we thought it was going to be corny shit. Right. No, we didn't want to do it. It's for the Special Olympics.

Let them find somebody else. No good, whatever. Bill Adler. Shout out to Bill Adler. He comes to us. Y'all can do what y'all want to do. Bill comes and plays us the music, the backdoor Santa sample. Because at first, me and Run wasn't going to do it.

But when we heard, don't. We could do that shit. Give me a pen. So me and Run, we went and wrote our rhymes. But every year, we don't see no money from that. That's all social Olympics. Wow. From start to end.

Well, let me just tell you, if I don't hear that record, it's not Christmas. No, no, no. Here's where we are with that. And this is so cool about hip hop. This was about four years ago. I don't know if it was a journalist or was doing an interview or whatever, they said, who would have thought in the existence of this universe that hip hop would do something,

would continue to do something phenomenal after all the phenomenal stuff that it's done? That's why I believe this. 50 years of hip hop, y, yo, we just getting started. Yeah, absolutely. Still got more to do. Innovation, creativity. We got Hollywood to take over now and conquer.

Different stories. So much to do. But they said Christmas used to be just this, Nori. The black guy, Nat King Cole, singing, chestnuts roasting on an open fire, right? Or the white guy, Ben Crosby, actually singing, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Remember, that's Christmas.

Who in a million years said, that shit's going to change now? They say, for the rest of the existence of this universe, it's Nat King Cole, Ben Crosby, and Run DMC's Christmas in Hollis. That's great. that being my mom, I was like, whoa. You mean I'm like Curry Cuomo now? Right. But it's a hip hop shit. We done, like, you know what I'm saying?

Right. That's a huge achievement. Even the Rock World Hall of Fame, I want people to understand something. People always go, D, you don't know who you Fame, I want people to understand something. People always go, D, you don't know who you are. I do know who I am. That's why I act the way that I do. I don't want free shit this and that.

I don't want free shit this and that. But the Rockwell Hall of Fame, y'all got to understand something. We did the video about us being denied entry into the place that don't exist. Right.

Now when we're allowed to get in, ain't motherfuckers mad. Mm-hmm. Gene Simmons, all these motherfuckers is mad just in there. They were mad? Gene Simmons?

Gene Simmons, yeah, from Kiss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was mad. He respects us now. Okay. But he was just making a point. Y'all got him.

Well, he was making, hating the point that we don't play instruments. So he has denied entry into the Rock and Roll of Fame. My thing is this. You got to understand. I think this is my most valuable award. And let me tell you why.

Because it's from you. Yeah, people. Yeah. My genre, my culture, this and that. But the Rock and Roll of fame is cool, but me having a trophy is not great as this. And I want people to understand this. My victory, our victory, anybody's victory, but more importantly, hip-hop's victory, let them all bicker and beef and have the criticism that they say.

First of all, the blues is the roots, motherfucker. Everything else is the fruits, number one. They got it from all the black blues. All this music, rock, alternative hip-hop, the black blues artists, and if you sit down with Keith Richards, sit down with Mick Jagger, sit down with

Steven Tyler, Aerosmith, sit down with Eric Clapton, you got white people, and when you talk about rock music, they mention blues artists, which is why all of these artists in hip hop should know who the fuck Spoonie G is. A jazz motherfucker knows who's Miles Davis and Coltrane. But our victory is this, Norian E. The trophy's cool, but I already won when I was just considered worthy enough for the nomination. Because that tells you your work is done.

So we're looking for, just to be considered worthy, I don't got to take her home, but you know, that's your victory. So they can say, it's not a genre, this and that. When we have Walk This Way and Adidas, we do press conferences. Excuse me, Run D&J, where do you think you'll be in three years? They thought we was a fad. They thought we was old. You know what I'm saying? So it ain't about what other people think.

It's about what you know. You know, a great philosopher once said, I don't fuck with people that talk and say, I believe. I believe. You don't hear. And that's what's really crazy about religion. You believe that shit. You can believe what the fuck you want. One person says, I believe this and that.

I believe the no, no, no. Do you know? When I speak, I say, I know that. I know this. I know. How do you know? Because I experienced it. And y'all calling me legendary.

I got hit with this about a couple of months ago. I forgot what I experienced it. Right, right. And y'all calling me legendary, I got hit with this about a couple of months ago. I forgot what I was watching, and they say, you know, one person isn't legendary. The people calling you legendary don't know that they're part of the legend because they were there. It's not about who, it's about who experienced it all. The person that's calling me a legendary,

you were a fucking legend. They're talking to themselves. not about who it's about who experienced it all the person that's calling me a leo dory you a fucking legend they're talking to themselves the guy said a legend means the people who were there to experience the legend of billy the kid it only exists because the saloon guy saw it and passed it. Right, the original term of that word is passing on that story from someone who saw it, right. So I always say we are reluctant, and since it's the 50th year of hip-hop,

it should be demanded that we talk about the pioneers before recorded rap. Yeah, I agree. They need to be mentioned. They need to be talked about. Hollywood, you're coming out of this, right? DJ Hollywood? All of them.

Okay. DJ Hollywood. Oh, you were talking about Hollywood coming out of this. Hollywood, when we come, we don't need no more. I was a drug dealer. Now I'm a rapper. I was a gangbanger. Now I'm a rapper.

Think about this, Nori. From 74 to 70, I mean, from 71 to 74, there are so many stories about people. Okay, they were DJing and breakdancing and doing graffiti. What was happening economically? What was happening politically? What was happening? We got to go into Hollywood now and tell all of the stories. You know what I'm saying?

And hip-hop is 50 years old. Now we're just getting started. We got to dominate the airways. We got to dominate the screen. We got to dominate the airways. We got to dominate the screen. We got to dominate literature. Now we can start telling all the other stories that need to be heard, or else they're going to get lost. Right. Let me ask you, because you were saying this earlier, one of the first people to have a sneaker endorsement.

Do you guys have a stock in Adidas? I think Eric said he's working on that for us right now. That needs to happen. Adidas needs to pony up. Adidas needs I think Eric said he's working on that for us right now. That needs to happen. Adidas needs to pony up. Adidas need to... I know. I mean, because like you

were saying it earlier. No curls, no braids, peasy heads still get paid. I'm one of the good reasons why Yeezys can get made. I'm about to ask you if you get free Yeezys.

This nigga really writing my Adidas. He really just... No, no. Adidas need to write the check yeah no they do

we gave them a promotion in market and we solidified see we took them to lifestyle and fashion they were just

sports and we took them to lifestyle but what made y'all what made y'all because like you were saying earlier you was like

everyone was wearing pullmans at the time what made y'all it was an economic decision to select Adidas what were saying earlier, you was like everyone was wearing Pumas at the time. What made y'all? It was an economic decision to select Adidas. What do you mean economic? You mean like it was cheaper? No. Oh.

Pumas was dope. Right. And now Pumas and Adidas is connected. Do you know the story? Two brothers of the Dostoevsky family had an argument. Fuck you, I'm going to go start my own company. He went and started Pumas. He left the first start Pumas.

So Pumas and Deedus were simultaneously coming up in New York City. Here's the problem. The suede Pumas, somebody stepped on them, you fucked. All the rain. The leather ones were cool, lasted a little longer than the suede

ones, but they would bend and they would start to crack. This is an economic decision. Do I spend my $35 on the Pumas? Somebody step on in the rain? Or do I get the shelter that all I need to do? Why do you think I carry rags? At the end of the night, when I get back to my room,

I just wet it and wipe it off. It looks brand new. It was an economic decision. They're more durable. I didn't know I was going to get a sneaker deal. So my first pair of Adidas, I don't play ball, so mine's going to last three years. So it was an economic decision that we did Adidas. The shoelace thing came out because of this.

But hold on. Before you get to the shoelace thing, let me ask you this one thing. Have you ever owned a pair of Nikes? Yeah. Recently? Recently? 2000... He knows it, the year.

He knows the day. When did Nelly and I put out... My new Air Force one. What year was that? You mean to tell me Nelly got you? Yeah, what year was that? Well, it was Nelly and Jay-Z because Jay-Z was infamous for rocking the Air Force one, right?

Why? What year was that? So here's the story i'm in new york city the foot locker on um broadway by the mcdonald's 34 right no okay as to place um mcdonald's broadway before halston okay with adidas on the corner okay there's a foot locker right by mcdonald's Profile Records used to be. Okay. So I forgot. I was going to an interview.

This was like 2000. It was when Nelly and Jay's, when Air Force Ones was popping. Yeah. So I go in the Foot Locker. I got on a blue T-shirt. Uh-huh. I got on blue Levi's. Uh-huh. And I got on white on white Adidas.

So in my crazy mind, I need Adidas with the blue stripe. I ain't right. And I had on new white on white, white Superstar with the white stripe.

But I'm very OCD. It was hurting me. So I go in the foot locker on Broadway. And I go in there, yo, I looked everywhere. I need the

white Superstar size 13 with the blue stripe. Go in the back. We don't got them. Did you do 12? No, 12 hurt my feet. So over there on the podium, I told this story at Adidas recently too. Over there on the podium is an Air Force One spinning with a blue stripe, and it got lights around it. It's a true story.

So I look. Give me those. Did the store just stop and everyone was like, er? No, no. Because you know why? Because the workers were young. Okay, so they didn't get it. Okay, okay.

Who the fuck I am? You know what I'm saying? Manager was young too. You know, I walk in Foot Locker thinking everybody's going to know, but a lot of times, if they're young, they don't know. So I put them on. I walk out the door, and I'm walking down. As I'm walking, a garbage truck.

True story. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Yo, what's up? What the fuck? And that's all the driver says. And I go, keep walking, right? I get to the corner on Broadway and 4th Street where Tower Records used to be. The bus driver, yo, D, man, come on, man, that's wrong. What the hell are you doing?

I get to the corner of Broadway and House. Police officers standing there. I come over and one, I guess he probably was Puerto Rican dude, you know what I'm saying? You know, they stand there and he comes up to me. He was like,

yo, man, what are you doing? Why you got on Nike? And he's back. I turn around. I walk back. I want to tell you the same thing I never saw you do. I walk back to the Foot Locker. Because you got to understand, I left the white on whites in there.

Okay. One and all. Yo, take these sneakers. Give me my white on whites back. Do you want your money? No, you can give them to somebody. Never attempt to put on anything else because the people won't let me go that is such a dope story bus driver garbage man and police gone for it i can't wear anything else right i'm married to

the motherfuckers for life so they really yeah they got a pony we got to pay. And you don't pay for Adidas at this point. Oh, no. Not at all. When's the last time you paid for a pair of Adidas? About a week ago. You were just in a rush? Yeah. Call it off.

No, I don't want to go for it. I'll buy it. Okay. And they tell me, no, don't do it. But, you know, I'll get them because I want them. So if you had to pick Adidas right now, Pharrell's or Yeezy's? Superstars. Yeah, he's sticking with the original.

Oh, you ain't fucking with either one of them? I don't care about them. Oh, shit. No, no, because I'm not. It's like people say Run the FC created to sneak. It was a culture that already exists, but Adidas created it. Everybody who tells the convention writes about it. It started that.

It was there, but we identified it. Okay, so if I'm dressing while running DMC Attire, and I have on the sweatsuit, but I go to the store, and it's only Stan Smith's there. Does that complete my mind? No. No. You got to go find a superstar if you got this question.

Okay. All right. We was in a Stan Smith documentary. I hang with Stan Smith all the time. And even Stan Smith said Run DMC needs a lifetime

deal. He got one. He said that. Wow. But to Stan Smith's, Run DMC needs a lifetime deal. He got one. He said that. Wow. But the Stan Smiths are, you got to go watch the Stan Smith documentary. Oh, definitely.

I'm watching it today. Yeah, check it. It's crazy. They had to interview us in it. But Stan Smith is more of the casual, it doesn't represent what the superstar represents with his sweatshirt.

The one with Stan Smith was a tennis player, correct? Yes, exactly. Holy cow. So, no, he can't put the Stan Smith. That's like wearing slippers to the grocery store. Yeah, it's wrong. You can't say that to Miami people.

They wear slippers to the grocery store all the time. All the time. Notice everybody was like, wait a minute. What did you just say? Well, now I'm noticing they do that shit in New York now. Yeah, motherfuckers are wearing I'm noticing they do that shit in New York now. You know. Yeah, motherfuckers are wearing Crocs now and all that shit. No, but to Sam Smith, it doesn't complete, it doesn't mean. You could do it.

You could put your name with Sam Smith, but it's not that thing. Okay. So you've never wore any other athletic gear? Apparel? Yeah, I mean, I could tell you, I think the year Jay died. What's Orville's last name, Eric? Orville, who used to work for, yeah. Orville Hall used to work for Adidas when he left Adidas.

He was with, remember Lecoq Sportif? Yeah, yeah. They still popping? Oh, really? You think so? I got pictures of me doing all that. Come on, the alligator? With the peacock.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did with the rooster. That's with the peacock. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did I did um with the roof That's lacrosse the alligator Rooster I was repping look hot sport teeth for like three months. Okay, when you use the not wearing it when you Write after that, okay, but I did it for my friend and stuff like that. But then it didn't feel right. I said, Arvo, I can't. You know, I did it for him so he could get to check and shit like that. But there's a couple of bitches with me and whatnot. So I did Nike.

I did LeCocq Sports. Oh, shoot. Damn. Back from hell. We was wearing Ewings. I was about to ask you about Ewings. On the cover. Oh, we wore Ewings for like a whole fucking year. This is when...

We wore Ewings. This is when Ewan was sweating at the file line. Yeah. We wore Ewings when the Ewings first came out. Yeah. We wore... They on cover. That's crazy.

I'm so happy no people don't know anything. Because y'all don't... I ask y'all. Y'all know about Back From Hell and you have? I don't know anything because y'all don't I asked y'all y'all know about Back From Hell and I have I don't know let's just keep it out

on that album we got on fucking we got on on fucking the Ewins they got a 33 on the back yeah we was rocking Ewins Strat first game

but see that kind of gets the pass because that's when Ewan left Adidas started his own sneaker so it's kind of still in the same family so it was more of a New York thing,

but that was wrong too. My wife always told me she hated them sneakers. My wife was funny. She's younger than me, 10 years. She was like, put the fucking Adidas on. I'm like, no, I'm doing this for Jay and Patrick Ewing. That's funny. Me wearing Ewing's

was part of my depression. I knew I didn't want to wear them, but Jay was like, yo, we're going to be a fly. And then we was wearing April Walker. Never wear my Ewings again. We was wearing April Walker. We got Green Chance Ewings. Never wore those.

Jay had us wear April Walker apparel and shit like that. Like, I should have said, this shit is cool. Walker wear. For me, Walker wear. Like, you know, everybody was wearing it. I didn't want to wear that shit. I just wanted to wear my fucking Supra. That was during Down With The King era.

I remember you. Right, yeah. Exactly. But, like, I know there's a Biggie Smalls line where it says, you know, you ever think that hip-hop will make it this far? Like, did you ever think, like, because honestly, like, I was born in 77. I can't remember where Adidas is not related to you guys. Like, I'm born in 77, 46 years old.

Some people call me an old man, right? But what I'm trying to tell you is I can't remember a time where Adidas wasn't attached to Run DMC. You know what I mean? At all, right? So to me, it's like... Anonymous.

Yeah, yeah. It's anonymous. To me, whenever I see somebody wear the suit... Run DMC. Like, I'm not thinking Adidas. No. I think y'all. You know what I'm saying?

A hundred percent. You think hip-hop. For sure. Exactly. No, for sure. Yeah. A hundred percent. That's why I've made my Adidas.

I told you. My. I think your Adidas are our Adidas. All the mother's sisters, yours, these are mine. That whole look, that whole. And every fashion designer, every Harlem, I mean, every fashion week, all you have to do is put on the Run DMC track suit with the Adidas and walk down the runway. It never gets old. Or you put on the leather blazer with the leather pants, go off and walk down the runway.

Is it true that you guys were trying to do a deal with Adidas, but then you guys had a show at Madison Square Garden, and I believe you or Run... Run told me, take it off, and I held it up. Take it off, and you held it up. So what had happened was they didn't understand why... Which is an awesome story, by the way. Yeah, they didn't understand.

They're checking the weekly sales of product, and the shelter was in the closet, in the back of the closet. But they couldn't understand why it was outselling everything. And you know how they do the graphs? Yeah. They didn't have enough room on the wall to do the progression of the growth of the sale of the sneaker. So word has it that there was an intern there. What?

Dude, you don't know know Run DMC made a hip-hop song about your sneakers. So Adidas is like, hold up, hold up. What the hell is a Run DMC and what the hell is hip-hop? So the dude was like, it's just true. Now you know how exactly, is this true, JB? This must be true. So they sent a spy. His name was Angelo Anastasio he was the head guy of Adidas America like they have a head dude over out in

LA so he calls the office snooping yo I want to come to the Run DMC show can I get some tickets yo I'm the show so he comes to the show it's the Raisin Hell at Madison Square Garden we seven records in. Runs, says, take it off,

D. I take it off. Hold it up. I hold it up. 29,000, I think was the capacity to guard. 29,000 people hold up their brand new Adidas. Angelo looks, goes running. It's true. No Instagram, no Twitter.

No MySpace. They gave us a million dollar deal. Goddamn makes a noise for that. looks goes running it's true no instagram no twitter this is it yep and no myspace yeah we they gave us a million dollar deal god damn makes a noise for that and the year that we put out the cadillacs el dorado and the fleet was it was the first time in addition to the run dmc shelter it was the first time in the history of the company that they changed the color of the box because Because the box was always light blue. When we put out the El Dorado Fleetwood and the El Dorado Fleetwood in the Sedanaville, they made the black box,

all black box with the Run DFC logo. It was the first time in the history of the country, company. So game changing. We changed fashion. We change marketing. We change advertising. We change music.

Yeah, you change the culture completely. What's left for you to do? Change Hollywood. That's my next mission. I get calls all the fucking time about, Pete, I don't want to be an actor. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to, I want to get behind the camera. I want to sign, I want to sign,

I want us to stop telling the same stories. Hip-hop has a habit of telling the same stories, but Hollywood does too. They just tell Cinderella over and over and over and over. There's new princesses and kings and adventures and entrepreneurs and school-asset educational situations to tell. So what I want to do in my position, especially since I'm here, I could have committed suicide. I didn't OD.

I didn't kill myself. I didn't get shot. So I feel that I have a responsibility. So what's left for me to do is take this. Turn those into films. And make this cartoons and live action films just like my idols, Spider-Man and the Hulk and stuff like that. Absolutely. So it's 50 years of hip hop.

We're just getting started. We have a lot of creativity. So I want to be part, just like I was here to do the records, do the sneaker deals, this and that. I said, man, if I could do that, I could do the same thing in Hollywood. And the good thing about me is I can call and get those meetings. But I don't want to go into meetings and have Hollywood say, no, it'll be better if you do the, no.

We don't have to be Negroes and we don't have to be gangbangers. There could be so much other stories to tell. Who would have thought this um catholic school comic reading classic glasses wearing nerd would grow up not to be just a part of hip-hop but one of the kings of hip-hop who was able to change every associated genre or um um entity that we came in to connect with. Who would have ever thought about that? So those are the stories that... Which changed the world.

Right, which changed the world. I mean, Busta said it. Man, these motherfuckers didn't just change music. They changed everything. Everything, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? And the beautiful thing, Kaz always says that. Hip-hop didn't really create anything.

We created everything. So I don't want us to get, and I especially don't want this generation that's looking at this celebration, don't get caught up in the 50th celebration being over because if we change music and we change fashion that means we can change um when we say uh jam master j everything that he touched turns to gold everything that we touch turns to gold so like when you say i really meant that i was like yo this is like me coming on soul train right you. No, I went on Soul Train. Right, of course. But for me coming here, this is me being here with, you know, you guys are my fucking Mike Douglas's, Merv Griffin's.

Y'all guys are my Johnny Carson. Got it. So the kids need to see that. Let me ask you something, because you said it earlier. I think you said your father said it. You said, why would anybody hurt Jay, right? Yeah. Me, you know, as a young'un, you know, I didn't understand that at all. Like, I couldn't...

Comprehend it. I couldn't comprehend it. I couldn't understand. I couldn't identify. Because every time I seen Jay, it was just always love. It was like, especially in Queens. Right. What happened in Queens, it was like very shocking to me and especially in his studio.

Right. You know what I mean? And then I watched the Jam Master Jay documentary, Who Killed Jam Master Jay on Netflix and I'm still kind of confused. You know what I'm saying? So I just want to ask your perspective on that, you know what I mean, on that night when you got the phone call. Right. When it first happened, first thing that happened was 10 o'clock news, Channel 9, Channel 5, and 11, not Channel CBS, ABC, and 11.

10 o'clock news, Channel 5, Channel 9, Channel 11. Breaking news. Yeah, Master J shot in the studio so now when I'm hearing this I'm going okay somebody did get shot right but it's not J

right so hour goes by and here's what's crazy the next day we were supposed to go play B-Burn and J was supposed to go

perform at the Washington Wizards halftime basketball show so I'm packing that's when Jordan was on there when the song was on I don't know was supposed to go perform at the Washington Wizards halftime basketball show. So I'm packing. That's when Jordan was on there? When I was on there. I don't know if Jordan.

No, no. This was after Jordan. Okay, cool. We were supposed to play halftime. I remember that. So 11 o'clock news, Channel 2, Channel 4,

Channel 7. So now by this time, I'm seeing the pictures of the body bag being... And then again. All right, somebody... All right, it's being and then again alright somebody did get shot but it's not Jay Eric's daughter Erica calls me

crying they killed Jay whatever whoa this might be serious I tell my wife we give my son who's here with us he was a little baby, to the babysitter. So we jump in the car and we jet to Queens. We're living in Jersey right now.

Jet to Queens. I pull up to the studio, which was by the 169th Street bus terminal. By the New York Public Library on the other side, in the bus terminal. So I pull up, this is when I knew it was reality. I get out the car, I see Chuck D, a public enemy, and Ed Lover crying. Oh man. And I knew it was for real.

So I get out the car, see Ed Lover crying like this, Chuck D crying, all happened so fast, the police come grab me. The priest in this right across the street. Take me to the priest and sit me down. They start asking me all of these questions, this and that. Boom, boom, boom. As if he was there. Boom, boom. As if it's there. And also, did you see this? What was they like? This and boom, boom. I don't know. We toured this and that. Boom, boom. Just a whirlwind. So that's how I found out. And then as time went on, I remember, might have been on MySpace or something. But somewhere, you know, it was coming up.

Everybody was disappointed, whatever. And then I just nonchalantly and innocently posted, I'm not mad at the guy that shot Jay. Should have never did that. Man, the whole world cursed me like crazy so I said okay let me elaborate on what I just said I'm not mad at the guy that shot Jay the guy that shot Jay

personally isn't my problem and that's not my fight my struggle and people understood this my struggle is the mindset that would cause an individual to do

those things and not only for Jam Master Jay but for Pac, for Big for Scott LaRock, for Freaky Ty but not only for them, what about the Jam Master Jay, Pac and Big that are getting shot in our communities all day, so we as hip hop, we got a for them. What about the Jam Master Jay Pox and Biggs that are getting shot in our communities all day?

We as hip-hop, we got a assignment. And then people, okay, we understand what you said. I know I feel about the guy and stuff like that, but that's not my fight. It's not the individual because we have the ability to change those perspectives. But speaking on that, it is what it is. The dudes, they did

or whatever they did, they did what they did. But what hurts me is this. Jay could have had a studio in Manhattan around the corner from Diddy's. He could have had a studio in L.A. He chose to put his studio five minutes from where he came from. He opened a door to let everybody else in. And you could talk to people. Jay was like, if you can't rep, you can't be secretary.

He was a master of creating opportunities, you know? And then the whole thing was, look, all my friends are either dead in jail or they stick up kids and they're drug dealers. So I'm connected to drug dealers because I know a lot of them. Am I doing it? Am I around it? Am I involved in those transactions? No. But all my friends are drug dealers. But Jay was

five minutes from where he came from. He opened that door for us. So it's a shame that the very thing Jay escaped from is the very thing that killed him because he was trying to deliver other people's food.

So it's still confused to me. I only get reminded about it when people bring it up. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, damn, that shit is crazy. But even the OGs, like everybody across the board was like, we don't care what that shit was.

You don't shoot Jay. Right, that's true. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, wow. That's like they teach, you don't shoot J. Right, that's true. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, wow. That's like that G, you know. And for years, it was like we didn't see Run DMC together. Right. Was that like the major reason?

Yes. I said it. The only reason I said that Run DMC, we can't replace our drummer. But then time went on, and then we started getting requests to do festivals. So we was like, okay. But even now, I mean, you was fortunate and everybody was fortunate to see the show at Yankee Stadium. Because we looked great, sounded great, and was flawless. You know what I'm saying?

But leading up to that, even at that show you're not seeing run dmc as run dmc jmsj you're seeing the two members formally of that great band it's like what i'm trying to say is it's still only phenomenal it's like seeing paul mccartney and ringo just not the same right right it's not run it's running dmc but it's not run. It's running DMC, but it's not running. And then who was the DJ for y'all on the same record, so don't get that. So when it goes to your part, your DJ goes on your part and when it goes to your part... They alternate.

That would be crazy. That's crazy. That's really amazing. But it's like Now If Run DMC was to record Again

If we was to record again We couldn't record as Run DMC Why? Because in the overall picture Of Musical Musicianship In the overall picture of musicianship what we would do is we form a new band when you look at um I said when you look at

audio slave they was audio slave and then he was on what's the other band I became oh you look at perfect example Oh David Oh, David Grohl didn't keep Nirvana going. Yeah, I was thinking that, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So you have bands who changed the name with some of their original members. You know what I'm saying? So me and Ron would have to figure out

what we're going to call this recording entity because we can't come as Run DMC. It'll be Run DMC and the Champs with feature. You know what I'm saying? We would have to give you another. When you see us now, that's Run in DMC doing Run DMC. But for us to record new, we can't. Because it wouldn't tarnish the shit because we dope anyway.

But it's more respectful. You just wouldn't feel right doing it is what it is. Right. To form a new band, which is really kind of cool too. Sound Garden. If it's Sound Garden and Audio Slave, you morph into, if me and Run say, we're going to record. Now, we said it was the last show at Yankee Stadium.

It's the last show. Everybody always said you got the last show in New York at Yankee Stadium. We can do, oh, Run DMC's last show in LA. Right. We can do Run DMC's last show. Australia. If that comes up. But for us to record,

and for me, for my adventurous creative spirit, I would want to do it under a new name. You know what I'm saying? Yo, run, we going to be Angel Dust. Right. But the last run, the last tour of doing all the last shows would be kind of L. Right. Everybody said that.

How about a versus? Huh? How about a versus? Oof. Who would run the MC verse against? No, the verse. Yeah, the verses. Oh, I don't know.

I don't know. Beastie Boys? Public Enemy? Oh, the Beasties don't want to do it. Definitely don't want to do definitely don't want to do some because they can't do it without mca see i was a little bit me and ron could do it because jay wasn't a mc right you know i'm saying like de la soul oh shout out to true boy i got a record on spotify and youtube called kingdom come where i pay my respects to True Goy because every time I was around True Goy he just looked at me like I was the greatest

thing in the world and he was like and he would tell me you don't know D like you don't know, like I loved him like I love True Goy rest in peace shout out to Talib but in a, EPMD.

Yeah, EPMD. Yeah, they... But they're a little too hard. We would have to run DMC. We would have to go up against like Taylor Swift or someone. No, I'm just saying. We would run DMC. Who would run DMC in the versus?

Because you got to understand, run DMC is just a little unique because. A lot unique. You know what? You know, if, yeah, a lot unique. Because one of the things that we always did, Pete Rock did it in a way that is fucking, you know, they said we was the kings, but Pete Rock made the world bow. But one of the things that would always piss me and run off now, and I get upset about now, is we would always get those instances where people was like, Run DMC's over, they

falling off. So the first time that they started thinking that, we did Here We Go to let motherfuckers know it ain't about these fucking records in the studio. Dre drop Big Beat. You know what I'm saying? I'm from Hollis, Queens. In the games we play. See you.

Here we go. Go listen to Here We Go right now. From the start to the end. It's one of the most perfected performances of hip hop. A DJ in bars. Turn your fucking record off, motherfucking, let's go down to the park

and see who can perform for an hour. A lot of motherfuckers can't do that. So here we go. Then if you remember, y'all forgot Redman and they lost, so shout out to them when they did Party People,

Loon, Kings of Dreams, Me and Run made that shit because motherfuckers was popping shit thinking that we ain't dope motherfucker. Dope. I'm dope eternally. So we did party people. Your dreams have now been fulfilled. Get out your seat and let's

get ill. That's right y'all. We're not just rough. We're more than tough. And when it comes to rise we got enough. We're ill, we're chill, we're scared. So dope that this suit me up too. Y'all know I did a song with Biggie, right? Don't get it twisted.

My downfall. My downfall, that's right. That's what I reckon. I'm at home just being DMC. I get a call, yo, Biggie want to make you a verse and chorus and shit. He can relate to that shit. That's not all. MCs have the gall to pray and plan for my downfall. want to make your verse and chorus and shit he could relate to that shit that's not all mcs have

the gall to pray and plan for my downfall but my rhyme was i'm not running i'm just stubborn smart not stupid because i'm so cunning mcs regretting i'm upsetting my recitals take titles and dollars i'm betting but we made together forever we said yo just put the 808 on. Because think about it. New York City was doing that 808 before the South. The South got it from us. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb girl. Ask Jermaine Dupri. We was fucking 808 and our asses off.

But we put out party people. We had to shut you all up in there. Then when we was doing Raising Hell, Run came along. Run came with UB Ellen, which was just all him. I see my notes. Oh, I see your notes. So Run came with UB Ellen, which he wrote. He came with UB Ellen, which was his version of a Prince song.

He was inspired by Dove's Cry. I can see that. You can see? I can see. That was Run. So he comes into the studio during Raise the Hell. I got this idea, so him and Jay lay it down. And then me and Ray did the ad-libs.

So Run leaves, because Run always had kids. He was like, I think he was three kids deep by this time. The first in the canon. Yeah, married, yep, exactly. Didn't make those numbers, but you know, he was in good running. So when he left, Jay, this is why I love Jay, I'm just sitting there now, that would have, could have been just Run's record, Jay turns to me, and he says,

D, so what are you going to do now? And I'm like, what do you mean? Jay, this is why you got to love Jay, Run got his record, where's your record? And I was like, thanks for asking, Jay, because I was always writing, to be writing anyway, I never wrote for records, I was just always thanks for asking, Jay. Because I was always writing to be writing anyway. I never wrote for records. I was just always writing. Put the beat on. Let me figure it out. So I say, Jay, motherfuckers is trying to say that we ain't on that Kane,

Rakim, Karras one level. I beg to differ. So he said, what do you want to do? I said, I got these rhymes. Now, I didn't know what level. I beg to differ. So he said, what do you want to do? I said, I got these rhymes. Now, I didn't know what the song was going to be. I said, I got these rhymes. He said, let me hear the rhyme. I'm the devastating mic controller DMC and can't nobody mess

around with me. I'm the king of rock, rap, and of rhymes. So I can just end the conversation right there. I'm not only king of rock, I'm the rapper. Whatever it is. King of rock, rap, and of rhyme. I deal with what I feel, and it feels fine. If it's okay to Jay, then I will play a rhyme.

A sound would put down for the rhymes I say. Then I went into you jock watching clock while I rock the spot. Better known to the world as the king of rock. I like to speak my piece when I'm on the mic. I'm the best, or at least I'm the one you like. So I had these rhymes, and the tape was like, yo, here's what we're going to do. In 85, when we was touring with the Fat Boys,

watching them tear down coliseums, Run used to do this thing where he would imitate Buffy. I would holler, hit it, Run! If you listen to Hit It, Run, that's Run imitating Buffy, which was a joke that Run always did on his tour. So Jay goes, yo, that thing Run used to do on the Fress Fest, which is hip-hop's first tour, before Raisin' Hell, Fress Fest 1, Fress Fest 2.

Run DMC, Curtis Blow, Houdini. Jermaine Dupri was a dancer with Houdini. So Jay says, we're going to make Hit It Run. So I said, Jay, just give me a beat that is fucking pulsating. So we went and we made Hit It Run. I had to write Hit It Run so I don't want motherfuckers thinking that we just fucking, it's tricky, it's like that, motherfuckers. So at every cusp, at every transformation of hip hop, we were in a position to do all of that stuff. Right.

But we didn't have to, because like you said, we found a niche with making records like Tricky. But we also had Suck Em Seas. Right. We had Down With The King, But we also had Mary Mary. So our presentation and presence in hip hop was very versatile. That's why Chuck D, y'all kind of were like the Beatles. Because when you think of Randy, you think of all the songs. But most of those songs, which y'all don't know, were just rap routines that kind of went on cassette tapes in 79.

So is it 79 or is it 2004? I got a song out right now produced by Bumpy Knuckles that is me, Ice-T, Chuck, and this shit is killing. You know, and I love Rick Rubin saying, your old stuff ain't better than your new stuff and your new stuff ain't better than your old. It just is. It just is.

You know what I'm saying? So let's talk about this one record, Beats to the Rhymes. I forgot about that one. That was before its time. It's been a sampled a lot. Yep. Yep. That record was like, the current hip hop people didn't't understand it but every producer every MC every you say you mean Karen at that time that's not okay yeah cuz it was a beat but everybody was like that when beats of the rhyme came out everybody in the industry was kind of like when we walked through the door they move out

the way like oh like beats in Iran was just that shit beats to the rhyme in the rhyme it's just part of you whoa back up like it's that shit right nah man it is in the rhyme is that like go listen to beast in rhyme everybody oh shut the fuck up right before you Yeah, that shit is crazy. When I say hardcore rhymes galore, and like I said before, my beats were played and made rhymes laid, J.D.J.'d, and I got paid, made something out of nothing, yo, D, that's true. Yes, my brother, I'm going to do it for you. I would roam in the zone of the microphone, and I'll hold the throne, but I'm not alone.

Got bone of steel and not of stone. I'm known to be prone to make your mama moan. Time for the rhyme to let the chart shine Came with the game in the name Run, have fun, let me give you a ring Joe, gotta go now Word from the, like, yeah Beast in the rhyme is that shit Yo, let me just say something, DMC, man

I'm so And I like being, um, um I like being, not being in your top five Who, in your top five? You like not being in your top five. You know when you do top five? You like not being in it? Yeah, I like to do it because I'm in a class by myself. Absolutely. You can't put me in it.

So I'm better than the top five. That's why I don't come up. You can't put me in that shit. That's limiting my presence and my abilities. So I know I asked you this a little earlier, but we got the single. We got the kids book. This is a cartoon as well. Yes, a song and a comic book.

Excuse me. Collaboration is the key to transformation. And then the kids book and then another comic. Yeah, the kids book I did with collaboration with Nickelodeon. It's the first book in a series of books. I'm going to do like 10 books. The first one is Daryl's Dream. Next one will be Daryl's Decision.

It's all going to be dilemmas. That's the children's book. Is this going to turn into a series like Chris Rock, Everybody Hates Crits? Oh, it could be. Oh, live action? I'll get you that. Yeah. Hell yeah.

A sitcom. That's deep. For sure. As soon as I look at it, I feel like everybody's here. It's definitely going to be a cartoon. Yeah. It's needed in the kids' space. But I didn't think of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. I think that the hip hop, we should get everything from hip hop. If you're going to watch cartoons, you're going to do cartoons. Oh, yeah. That's where we're at now. Yes, for sure.

If you're going to order a meal prep, I think it should come from... No, well, it is. It has to. If you're going to hire a trainer... It has to. No, we're at that point now. It's so hip-hop that you don't even realize it anymore. Right, right, exactly.

It's like, you know, it's like when our parents was able to go see Temptations and Four Tops. It's like, look, the Stones, Kiss, we at that point with us right now. And it's good because the OGs and the elders can now get work without even trying for it. Right. Because it's just a thing where now, I read an article where now we are starting to sell tickets again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Outselling the young artists, yeah.

We at that point right now. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's dope. That's a good thing. I am now what I saw on American Band standing in Soul Train. We are now that.

That's crazy. Right. Crazy. Right? Think about that. I know it's a cliche question, and I'm not sure if I answered it actually this earlier, but did you ever think that hip-hop would make it this far? No, and I'm not sure if I answered it, asked you this earlier,

but did you ever think that hip-hop would make it this far? No, I didn't. You did. I didn't answer it. No, I didn't. Jay did. Jay would answer that and say, yes, I knew it would because it was so big when I first heard it.

And then I read, whoa. Like, all this shit that I do when I run the Cold Crush shit and Moe D shit, that should have been a signal to me, but I didn't think that. I thought it was just going to stay in our region. Right. What I thought it was going to do was, I thought it was going to stay in our region. I thought we was going to have great records, do some chart shit, Grammy shit. But I thought it would eventually become, you know, last night in Atlanta, I spoke with somebody in D.C. about what GoGo is.

The one thing I can respect about GoGo, they didn't let the industry determine the life or death of their job. It's their thing. Even at the height of GoGo, we were speaking to the guy last night, 86 to 88. We was coming through to run DMC Dougie Fresh. I'm talking about all of us. But at the end of the night, after the Rays in Hell tour, after all LL did this, after we did go yeah bye y'all go back fucking home they go go and they be fishing alive exactly and then you know make that shit look cool i'm like i've never seen fishing look so cool and then they combined it with the hip-hop you know i'm saying but i for me i thought hip-hop would be just go but it would

just be our cultural thing like you know you know, how different cities have, New Orleans have their thing, this and that. I didn't think it was going to do this type of shit. But Jay always said this. I knew it would because it was so big when I first heard it. So imagine what Jay is saying is that's what the kids in Germany heard.

That's what the kids in Africa felt. That's what the kids in Germany, when we first went over to Japan in 86, we get off the plane, I would say about 60% understand English. 40% didn't. But when we was talking about the flag and the communication, communication is a cool thing

and sometimes you ain't even got to say a word. The kids, the audience over there would go, when did you see? You know, in the Japanese dialect. And they wouldn't say a word. They would just do this. With the suit and the hat. And we would go.

That was the language. That was it. We was communicating. So when Jay hit, I didn't think, like Biggie said, some people might say, yeah. I don't know if Kaz and him ever did. Kaz ever answer that question? He said no.

Yeah, he said if he would have, he would have. He would have trademarked hip-hop. Oh, I saw that interview. But I didn't take that. Me and Run always said this. Me and Run and Jay always said this. If it didn't have industrial successes and commercial successes, we would be the guys, you know, 40, 50 years old, the post office dude, the self-employed businessman, and the teacher. No, no, no.

Coming to the cookouts and the parties, putting the turntables up and wrapping. Right. You would have done it for free. Now looking like, yep, exactly. Let's talk about these cookies before we get up out of here. Daryl makes cookies. I like doing stuff to make people happy. Are you making these yourself? I have a baker who's doing my recipe.

It's like my comics. I'm like Stan Lee. Think of the ideas, think of the heroes, but then I go get artists, inkers, pencillers, colorists, and writers to write it for me. So I'm, my company is, I'm Daryl's producing a cookie. He's a creative

director of everything. They look good. I'm taking these off. Yeah, no, you got to try them. I'm not giving these back. So that came about. Nobody jack our shit here. Yeah, that came about from, um, well, from day one, I'm always on a movie set. There's always a craft table.

I'm always at an event, a show, whatever, and there's always like munchies and stuff there. So about seven years ago, I was at an event in the city where a lady from Harlem was debuting her baked goods. And I eat a lot of sweets. People ask me, what's the secret to my weight maintenance? I eat a lot of sweets. Sometimes I eat sweets and don't eat regular food. But knowing that I want to do, no. Chips Ahoy type shit?

Chips Ahoy. Oreo? I hate Oreos. You hate Oreos? Yeah, I don't like them. Damn. Chips Ahoy, red velvet cake, apple pie. You ever had the red velvet Chips Ahoy?

No. Red velvet Chips Ahoy. I ain't going to lie. I'll be destroying it. All right, I'm going to try it. My kids be like, where's the cookies at? I'll be like, I don't know. Why are you asking?

I'll be sneaking up like, why are you looking at me? I'll be like, knowing the back of my teeth is mad red velvet cake back there. But I eat a lot of sweets, which makes me go to the gym. So it's a balance. It's a balance. I want to eat them. I got to do the work there. So the cookies came about was this lady from Harlem was showcasing her cookies and her cakes and the cupcakes and all that shit.

And I'm always around kids and family, so I just particular sandwich, oh, these cookies are good. And then I said, I'm going to make cookies. I'm going to call my cookie company, Daryl Makes Cookies, and I just said that. And everybody in the room stopped and said, we'll buy them. So moving ahead, fast forward ahead, I said, you know what? I'm doing good with this comic books i can do

daryl makes cookies i could do daryl makes chocolate i could do daryl makes candy a lot of cool stuff that like i can't drink so i can't make my own liquor right i don't think um adidas is my company so i don't need to make a dC Coleman line. So I decided to do the cookies because I'm always around kids, families, and I go to schools all the time. So I want to have a product that's affiliated with something that I'm really part of. And so Riggs told me this. He said, D, you can do with this book what you've been doing with your music all the time. What do you mean? Inspire, motivate, educate while you entertain.

Put smiles on people's faces. So I'm just trying to come up with products that could really make me iconic in lifestyle other than what everybody's already doing. So comics is a, do you know what I'm saying? I don't have to be- You're all by yourself, yes. Yeah, I don't have to be in a-

You're on a lane, right. Yeah, I don't have to be in a competition. My competition is what's, you know, coming in. Cookies. Okay, nobody really has cookies. So now I can move. Only marijuana cookies they have. That's it. Well, hold on. Here's what I can do.

I can put Daryl Mix Cookies, marijuana cookies inside the dispensary. I'd be an endorser. Okay, that's it. You're listening. We're doing it because I an endorser. Okay, that's it. We're doing it because I was speaking of that. Everything's good. See, I didn't just come here to do your show. Whatever you want. We're going to really do it. No, I can really do it.

I lost my train of thought. Daryl makes cookies. You're an endorser. I want to do stuff that I'm able to do that is not what everybody else is doing. So I can't do Jam Master Jay's kids. Speaking of them, they got t-shirts for you. Yeah, I got one. Jam Master Jay's kids do the pre-roll joints called JMJs that come in a cassette thing.

Oh, JMJs. Oh, how long is that? Exactly. That's fire. But yeah, the cookies is just another thing that I want to do that makes people happy. And oh, here's my train of thought. When I did the cookie things, everybody at my gym is like, yo, what's up with the protein cookies? So I'm doing these cookies.

The next cookie is the protein cookies. But it's not a healthy cookie. Don't get me wrong. It's a cookie with protein in it. Protein and things. Just don't make no kale cookies. a cookie with protein in it. For your protein and things. Just don't make no kale cookies. Don't. Oh, no. Never that. Never that. I'm going to make vegan.

But not kale. I had kale chips and shit ruined my life for a second. I'm trying to put that in this comic. My whole thing is this. When me and Rick started the comic book company, this ain't just a thing where I don't want five years or ten years

or even twenty years of people going, remember that comic book DMC had? A hundred years from now, two hundred years from now, when they people talk about Fred Flintstone, Spider-Man, Superman, and you don't even got to like my hero. You don't even got to like my hero.

You don't even got to like my character. I want you to connect with the character that you feel closest to you. So just like my cookies, I want my cookies to be right up. Oh, you got Nabisco. You got Keebler. You got Tate's. You got Petrich Farm. And kids 50 years ago will be able, their parents and their grandparents will say,

yo, this is this hip-hop guy. This is good for our culture and our cultural existence, like you were saying. I'm going to tell you something, what I want DMC, the comic book, to be. I want you to get with Snoop and have Snoop's own version of that, right? So it'd be Snoop. Crossover. Like, you know what I mean? And then you get with, like, for instance, the minute I thought of that, I thought of Kodak Black, right?

Kodak Black is this new guy from this new generation, but he's a superhero too. You know what I mean? His superhero strengths might be different from a non-superhero strength. Oh, no. No, no, no. I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is I think you should go to give each individual,

like, to me, every artist has a version of their superhero. Oh, for sure. Like how he said. So why not exaggerate? Oh, come on. Wu-Tang.

Wu-Tang's be crazy. Off top, and it's crazy, I would think of U-God. Like that character of U-God. Oh, for sure. Like, you know, U-God. like U-God, and make a whole little cartoon out of that. That's something that I'm just being honest with you, because that's

something that me and Ian have already said. Well, when I get my network on Cartoon Network, that's where I'm going. Oh, shit, damn. See, that's what I'm thinking of. I even want to do DMC-TV. You know what my tagline is? And everybody loves to do that shit, D. DMC-TV You know what my tagline is? And everybody loves to do that shit. DMC TV, what MTV used to be.

And show videos and no reality and show bands and new shit. Young and old talent. I said that the other day and I'm like, whoa. I'm going to have to go

sit down with like an investment company and say, let's do this shit. Absolutely. Advertisers will kill to be on DMC TV. Absolutely. You know,

the diversity of our culture musically? Right. Singers, new bands, all that shit. Like there's so many De La Souls and Slick Ricks of this generation, they're just not getting their opportunity. Right. You know what I'm saying? So us as people who walk the walk and talk the talk. We walk this way.

Yeah. For all of us who walk this way in this very tricky business, no pun intended. Now I'm trying to encourage kids. Because it's tricky to rock and roll. Yes, it is. It's tricky, very tricky to rock and roll. And we made it for that. Yo, this shit ain't easy.

This shit is hard. You know what I'm saying? But now hip-hop is 50 years old. We just getting started. Not only do we need more artists and talent, ownership and stuff like that, we need more suits behind the desks in the corporations. So if we include everything that hip-hop is capable of, we can accomplish those things to the point where we can be so potent that, damn, nobody's buying Louis anymore.

All the Louis people, and I'm talking about generationally, the old 86-year-old lady walking in stores that we created with our designers and buying those pieces for those same price points. We can do that. And all we got to do is turn that focus or that energy. Give the appreciation and intention of why you're buying it for in the first place to the people that's right here in our communities so that we can become the next Horace Dosslers. Like, I don't need to start another sneaker company. I need to be a partner and an owner in Adidas moving forward. So we are all of those things. And I think this is just a start, but me and Riggs only did this to give,

if you're a comic book artist, and now, you know, you got to go through the protocol school and stuff like that. You got to sign me too, SuperDog. Gotcha. Don't worry about it. You got it? SuperDog, yeah, me too, Superdog. Got y'all. Don't worry about it. You got it? Superdog. Yeah, I got y'all.

It's a race. Dale is done. Dale is done. Don't worry about it. That would definitely fucking be. Superdog. Superdog. Not superhero.

Here's how deep hip hop we are. When we do, we have artists do the work. Yeah. You know why it's fire? Because after we finish the whole book, we invite a graffiti artist to come tag the universe. So, you know, a lot of times the artist will do the graffiti. No, you did the artwork. Now,

I give the book and the artwork to graffiti artists and they go into my universe and really tag it. So that's how delicate and fine-tuned we got to get with this hip-hop shit. You know what I'm saying? I believe that's where we're headed. No. I don't like believing.

I know that's where we're headed. Because if I believe it, it might not happen for everybody else. But if I know it, it can happen for you. Yo, man, I'm just being honest with you. This was such a pleasure. This was such an honor. This was such a fulfiller for

me, man. You know what I mean? You truly are a hero. You a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, that's physically, but even, you know what I mean? Verbally and physically. Because, man. I'm happy you didn't do it when I was dead. No, no, no. Well, that's the purpose of this. Right, exactly. But, you know, you are the definition of longevity. You know what I'm saying? Like, so many people, you know, I don't want to say I laugh at people sometimes,

but sometimes I see people coming to this game and they got a hot one year and boy, they're the nastiest people in the world to all of the people that came before them

and then that next year you see them go away. You know what I mean? So in order to be here for this year, you had to see, if I see it, I know how many people

you saw come and go. I see how many people you saw come and go. I see how many people. So what we wanted to do is praise our legends, man. And you are one of them. You are definitely. You know what? You did something that needed to be done because when I was thinking about all like hip hop, you're doing what needs to be done while setting an example. Because the beautiful thing, what I noticed when you speak to Mick and Keith or Joe and Steve from Aerosmith, it's an interview about them, but they go into the black blues artists.

As big as, as huge as the Stones is, as rich as the Stones is. So you're doing something that Bump talks about a lot. I hear Karis One talks about it. And LL just been saying he's doing wonders with Robin Bell. He came on here. He was like pissed off. Man, when you see Miles Davis, you ain't thinking about his bank account. Right, right. Yeah, I heard him say that.

Because the richest number one selling artist that had their little one-hit wonder that is a celebrity and really famous still they'll get on entertainment tonight before them but Ella's saying nah this shit right here

that we have it's beautiful that y'all taking it upon yourselves to acknowledge that but not only talk about it you're showcasing see it's one thing

you know you can just have your podcast and at the end of every record shout outs to the legend. Y'all bringing them on. Absolutely. That's mind-blowing. And we give it a sick.

And because you know what it is? That's one of the beautifulest parts of this show is, you know, sometimes we'll interview an artist, and then all of a sudden, I'll just look at their Instagram, and they out every weekend after that. And you know what I mean? That's the best part. And that's the best part, I'll just look at their Instagram and they out every weekend after that. And you know what I mean? Like, it's just like. That's the best part. And that's the best part because what it is is sometimes it's just an unforgetting hero.

You know what I'm saying? Like a lot of us. Yeah, you don't want us to be like the veterans that fight these wars for us. Right, exactly. So I want to keep us alive. You know what I mean? I want to keep us. It's just a reminder to the audience how great.

Yeah, they know about me now while I'm living and not finding out about you talking about me. Yo, what about Legends DMC? I know what he did. He died. Oh, shit. Okay. So I want you to know this is your house. Yeah.

Anytime you want to promote, I don't even care if you want to promote eyebrows. It's okay. You can come over here. So I can come over here? Yeah, anytime you want to. With your new eyebrows? Really? With your new eyebrows. Absolutely.

Absolutely. With your little toenail. It don't matter what you want to promote. I don't care. You know what I mean? We're here. With your new eyebrows. Really? With your new eyebrows. Absolutely. With your little toenail. It don't matter which one. I don't care. You know what I mean? We here, this is your house. You know what I mean? Oh, my God.

This is Run DMC's house. You know what I mean? Whose house? Whose house? Yeah, so I want you to know that, man. I want you to know how important you are. You know, you're like Big Daddy Kane in Bismarck to me. Who?

Because during my drunk run, my 40 drinking run, I would always go to Kane. I'm surprised y'all didn't ask him. There was crazy shit. So Kane only drink red wine now? Yeah. Well, but back then, he wasn't drinking the 40s. He would invite me over his house. I would go over his house and empty out his refrigerator and fill it up with 40s.

And he called his mother, Mom, you have no idea what's going on. That's how alcoholic I was. DMC. Yes, Mom, that DMC just came in and took all my food and filled the refrigerator with 40s. Rest in peace to Bismarck. Yes, rest in peace. Right before he passed, his wife was calling people for words of encouragement.

Okay. I heard about this. Called her, yes. So she called me and said, I need you. He can hear us, this and that. Boom, he can't respond, but we know he can hear us. I need something for you to tell Bismarck. And she said, wow, I feel like crying. I said, tell Biz and he's going to know what I'm talking about. Just whispering as a DMC says, thanks for letting me in. I would be in a drunk stupor three, two in the morning, no matter, and I would go to Biz's house. And if it wasn't his family member, it's DMC at the door, let him in. Biz would always let me in his house. In Long Island.

No, not in Long Island. When he lived in Jersey, I think it was. Any of our house in Jersey. Okay. Three, you know, one in, to the point where he would be on the road. Hold on. And the people would let me in his house. And I looked back and I said,

I looked back and I said, what the fuck was I doing? No, but Biz Markie would always let me in and Kane would always let me in. Rest in peace to him. I love Kane. Goddamn, let's make some noise for that. Thank you, man. Thank you for having me

Let me just reveal one thing I never thought I would be on this show Oh man, we've been trying though We can do this without drinking When my managers brought little Eric Blam Was saying this and that Really, they want me? Like just for some reason,

I didn't think I was cool enough. Nah, get out of here. No, really. We're not cool enough for you to be here. Yes, yes. Thank you, thank you. That's exactly what I was going to say. And that's a compliment to y'all.

Nah, nah, nah. The compliment is all to you. I'm honored and humbled to think that that was on your mind. I'm going to be honest with you. Like I said earlier, I wasn't saying this because it sounds good. Like, in a lot of ways, you was the first commercial success I put this on your mind. I'm going to be honest with you. Like I said earlier, I wasn't saying this because it sounds good.

Like, in a lot of ways, you was the first commercial success for coming out of our barrel. Like, you was, I want to say national, but I want to say worldwide. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, before that, we had records in Queens and things like that. But, like, the first time I seen Walk This Way, that was on MTV. Right, Superstar. This was like,

you guys was in between like five different, like, you know, white category videos. And this is the only country where I could see it. That level of, yes. That shit was crazy to me. And, like, and then it's from Queens, you know what I'm saying? I know him being a DJ, you know, with Jam Message. I know this guy wears Adidas to this day because of you guys. Because of you guys.

You know what I mean? You don't wear anything else. So this means the world you guys. You know what I mean? I don't wear anything else. So this means the world to us. You know what I'm saying? Big up. First off, I want to say rest in pieces, Jam Master Jay, his family, my condolences.

And also, you know, big up to, I'm going to call him DJ Ron. You know what I mean? And big up to the whole Run DMC family because in all honesty, like I said, if it wasn't for y'all,

I don't think this show would even exist. I don't think I would exist as the artist. I don't think he would exist as a DJ. And that's no exaggeration. This is real talk. We love you, man. Thank you so much for stopping by. I love y'all too.

Like I said, this is your show. Anytime you want to come through here, it doesn't matter which you want to promote. My brother, let's make some noise for Run DMC. He's the bitches in the drawer. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production in association with Interval Presents.

Hosts and executive producers N-O-R-E and DJ E-F-N. From Interval Presents, executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by yours truly, DJ EFN and NORE. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials.

That's at Drink Champs across all platforms. At TheRealNoriega on IG. At Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG, at DJEFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to DrinkChamps.com. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's going to take us to heal us. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. I never let that little girl inside of me die. To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Jess Hill with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything.

This season of Revisionist History, we're investigating everything from the secret behind the perfect nooks and crannies in Thomas' English muffins to the merits of Paw Patrol against its critics. There's some things that really piss me off when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. My son watches Paw Patrol. I hate it. Everyone hates it, except for me. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.