Drink Champs - #Throwback Episode - w/ Dave Mays & Benzino | (Ep. 10)

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs and we're taking it back to some of the most legendary moments in Drink Champs history Classic interviews, unforgettable stories, and iconic guests who shaped the culture. In this classic throwback episode of Drink Champs, N.O.R.E. and DJ EFN chop it up with the legends themselves, Dave Mays and Benzino! Co-founders of The Source magazine—Dave & Benzino talk about the legacy, controversy, and cultural impact of the iconic publication.From the origin story of The Source as a Harvard newsletter to becoming the “Hip-Hop Bible,” Benzino and Dave Mays recount how they changed the game with the legendary 5 Mic rating system and gave a platform to countless rap legends before they blew up.The episode touches on the rise and fall of The Source, the magazine’s fierce rivalry with XXL, and how internal beefs and external pressure—including industry politics and legal troubles—impacted their careers. Benzino opens up about his time on Love & Hip-Hop, reality TV’s effect on his image, and addresses long-standing controversies surrounding Eminem and Dr. Dre. Dave Mays shares insights on how race and authenticity in hip-hop media shaped their editorial vision.With raw stories, wild behind-the-scenes moments, and unfiltered opinions, this episode is a true celebration of hip-hop history, journalistic legacy, and resilience. It's a must-watch for anyone who lived through the golden era or wants to understand how The Source helped shape the culture forever.Make some noise for Dave Mays and Benzino!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 -Originally published on May 27th, 2016:See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, it's Segway. Hope you're sound. This is your boy, N-O-R-E. What up, this is DJ EFN. And this is Drinks Champ, the motherfucking podcast. Make some noise! And right now... Hit that again, EFN. And right now, that again And right now

I'm so excited Not because these people are my friends But before these people were my friends I knew who they were doing I seen what they were doing They are the people who edited Who architected The magazine business

Everybody bit off of their blueprint. After they made it, they tried to recreate it. These guys have been down for 20 years or so. These guys have been doing it. They reformed it. If you got four mics, you went gold instantly. Your shit was called the classic. If you got five mics, you went gold instantly. Your shit was called the classic. If you got five mics,

you probably went platinum instantly, but your shit was called a classic. Nowadays, we don't have no type of system at all. Your album just come out, and as long as the dude with purple hair and dreadlocks say your shit is good, you might work it. This is not back in the days. Back in the days, it was hard.

Back in the days, you had to hit a chitlin' circuit. Back in the days, you had to hit a chicling circuit. Back in the days, you had to do what you had to do. And if you had to get on this magazine, you had to be privileged to be on this magazine. No knock-a-knocks, the nuts was making this magazine. Right now, we talking about the co-owners, the founders, excuse me, let me correct my sound.

The founders of the Sauce Magazine. Right now in the house, we got Dave Mays and Big Zeno. Make some noise! Oh! Whoa! I want to get straight to the point, Zeno. One day, me, you, and Ja Rule was on the phone.

That's right. But you got to let them know we do this on a regular. No, me, you, and Ja Rule, we are like the three amigos. We're like the first take of hip-hop. Right. We going at it. We go at it. We don't agree on nothing, the fans Ja Rule, we are like the three amigos. We're like the first take of hip hop. Right. We going at it. We don't agree on nothing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, me,

Ja Rule, and I said, like Ja Rule said, he said, I don't give a fuck about the mic system, right? You remember he said that? And I said, that's because you only got three mics. You remember that? You fucked him up with that. But, but, but I always got four mics i always loved

the mic system the mic system is what helped make my career let's make some noise for that hold on let's make some noise what you told me though the first time you didn't give you four and a half. Yes. And I'm going to let it be known right now, right here. Right here. All right? And this is like we have no reason to lie.

I can't do that. Okay. As much as I want to. That's 15. You know what I'm saying? All right. You know what I'm saying? Dave Mays don't give a fuck.

But this, you know what I'm saying? Come on. Salud. Okay. Salud. You know what I'm saying? So youud Okay Salud You know what I'm saying So You told me that you thought

I was the one That was No I thought anything I thought at one point That if the sauce Anything that was bad In the sauce I thought that you had

Something to do with the bad part And I thought Dave Was the No no No but you thought that You thought that I raided the mic system I thought that you raided

The mic system I thought that any bad article Right I thought you was the angel That's what I thought that you rated the mic system. I thought that any bad article. Right. I thought you was the angel. That's what I thought. No, no, no. No, no. No, but the set to make it straight for all artists

because Prada said the same thing. You know what I'm saying? First time I met him, if you like. Prada's from the Fugees or something. Yeah, I never ever, ever. I hate that ice machine, by the way. I hate that ice machine. I never, ever, ever, ever gave anybody a mic.

But Sep. Now, you know. Let's get into it. No, no. I'm just saying. Other than the situation that happened with The Source, myself, and Eminem. That was the only time the mic system, I kind of put my

authority in it. But wait, all the other 190 covers and mics and everything, I never had nothing to do with it. Like, that's a backroom meeting of editors and people up there. And I never was once ever in any of those meetings. But even still to this day.

To set the record straight, though. Yeah, no, but even still to this day. Do you not realize how important the mic system was? I mean, I remember you was telling me. Like, yeah, like, I was bugging that I was explaining to you. I understood it, but I didn't feel it like y'all did. Wow. Now, how about you, Dave?

Me and you on the same page. That mic system meant a lot to the culture. I mean, we took it serious. It was something that the staff took seriously, the authenticity of it. It meant a lot. You got some good ratings. I got some great ratings, man. High five for keeping you in the room with me.

I had to tell Ja Rule, just because you got three mics, Ja, that was your problem. He's my friend. Ja Rule's my friend. Let me play devil's advocate. All right. But what's the mic system of some people who might, and especially as rap started territorializing, meaning Houston had its own sound, the Bay Area had its own sound. Okay, if you got a bunch of people up in the office that not used to these sounds,

then how can they really rate your shit properly? And now that's number one. Then number two, right, the business side of the game. There's two sides of the sauce. There's business and there's editorial. FN, you're the label. Shout out to Benzino for getting technical. No, no, no, no, no. But you're the label

and you're artists and you're paying me advertising for your artists, right? But then editorial's hitting you off with two and a half mics. Right. Now what? Now what? Now what do we do? You know what I'm saying? So it wasn't always as, you know,

I think like what it was. You know what I'm saying? it wasn't always as you know um i think like what it was you know i'm saying people people have different perspectives on things my thing is like you know if you got a song and you believe in it then okay that's great that other people that you would want other people to rate it but when you think of again it's just these are just human beings and people like you are to rate something to say you like it or not. No, but I mean, the times have changed. But back then, I think you guys, what did they say? It was the hip-hop Bible.

Yeah, I understood it. I got it. How great of a compliment is that, though, the hip-hop Bible? I mean, Dave could take that. Right. Did you feel like, you know, accomplished when people called it the hip-hop Bible? Not. I mean, it felt good, but I was

always striving to keep going. To keep going. Doing more bigger things. You're a perfectionist. I'd stop just to... He started in his dorm. In Harvard, right? A piece of fucking paper. I remember my first source I actually bought. I had other source magazines,

but the first source I actually bought was the Mass Appeal cover I believe that's the cover with Nas got five mics correct when you say Mass Appeal Mass when I say Mass Appeal it was um I meant uh Guru Gangstar and uh uh DJ Permanent and that was uh that was the the um issue google that has can you google that you got you in front of the computer let's see if that's the issue because, you know, we want to give out correct information, but that was my first source. I was in

jail, and it meant so... I can't say it meant so much more to me because I would come home and hip-hop kids would have the issue the same way. Well, I just want to commend you guys for making... So did you know what you guys were doing when you made... Because you're from D.C., correct, Dave? Yeah, originally from D.C. And then you're from Boston so how did how did you first link

up to you already had the source idea or it was something y'all came over together he was a hobby of it let's make some noise Harvard and Jason. I was on Harvard Street. He was Harvard and Jason. Don't trust him. It was on Harvard Street. Wait, Roxbury was the hood, though, right? Don't trust him. That's all right. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait.

Oh, so there's five mics? Yeah. It was. Look, I'm mixing those for me. You don't know shit. You don't know shit. You don't know shit. You don't Google 9.

You know your shit. That's my first. That's my first. But you, so Harvard is in the hood? How the hell do you know? No, I'm saying Harvard. Harvard in the hood. Harvard School's in Cambridge.

Okay, it's in Cambridge. I started a radio show, a hip-hop radio show. Okay, of course, you did the mic. The mic, yeah. Yeah, a hip-hop radio show up there on the Harvard radio station. Give Dave another drink. Yeah, give him another drink. Listen up a little bit.

Listen, first off, first off, listen, Benzino and Dave, they are my friends. You can tell they're my friends. They thugged out bottles of Armadale. It's not a Rockefeller no more. It is now Hip Hop Weekly sponsored. Armadale. Holy moly guacamole. These are my friends.

We're going to get to a lot of stories. They got this. We miss a lot. Oh, man. We got family. This is family. Excuse me for saying friends. My goodness.

Brothers. Both of them, man. That's right. So how does the Harvard guy. And where are you from? I'm from Roxbury, Dorchester, man. That's right. So how does the Harvard guy... And where are you from? I'm from Roxbury, Dorchester, Massachusetts. How does the Harvard guy link up with the Roxbury, Dorchester guy? This is crazy.

He was doing the Harvard thing. I had a group, the Almighty Harvard Show. But you're saying Harvard like it's light. Harvard is an esteem. Yeah, but the only thing that Harvard... For niggas in Boston, Harvard was just over there where the police sat and the white people only thing that Harvard, the niggas in Boston, Harvard was just over there with a police set

and white people. That's just what they did in Boston. Everywhere else, people are trying to get in. I understand that. Yeah, prestigious, you know what I'm saying?

Prestigious. Very, very smart motherfucker. He had the number one rap group up there in Boston. Excuse me. That was RSO. Yeah, the almighty RSO.

Was that managed already by Queen Latifahna? So I went out to one of their shows. I think it was on Flavor Union. But this was before all that. That's when we first met.

I went out to one of their shows. They were performing. I went out and introduced myself. We opened up a tretchen now. Told them about my radio show. I was hosting the show Street Beat, Go Go Dave. Come on up. I wanted you all to come do an interview up on my radio.

So that's how we met. And then we just started. He used to wear this leather African thing. Yeah, I want you all to come do an interview up on my radio. So that's how we met and then we just started. He used to wear this leather African thing. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. Dave is the blackest white person. He's definitely black. Every man in the atmosphere, I've never looked at them with their skin color. I know that they're just as black as me

if not black or raw. Let's make some noise for Dave, man. There you go. That nigga's gotta start clapping, man. Stop having a conversation because Dave Mayne ain't be watching y'all.

But then we ended up linking up and like... Yeah, how'd y'all link up? Well, he had a radio station. You said that. My DJ from the RSO ended up spinning on his... He and Harvey...

Did you have two times? Yeah. Okay, let's pick up. It was a station for classical music. Mm-hmm. And Dave managed to get some hip-hop on it.

Mm-hmm. So Jeff went up there to be his DJ. Jeff two times. Pick up Jeff two times. Okay. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? First 15.

Right. Let's do it. You know what I'm saying? And then... I'm going to tip. Yeah, then from there we just started linking up. I started working with him and the group.

Now, I'm going to direct this question towards you. Now, I know Benzino. I know how smart he is. But the average person don't see that. How did you see his genius, Dave? I appreciate that, man. I mean, it's just always been a click from the beginning. From the beginning or was it later on?

I mean, of course, it grew and it evolved over time, the relationship, but there was just something there that's kept us together all these years. I mean, there's definitely a respect. I mean, he's... Y'all brothers, man. He's a brilliant person. I say it all the time.

Yeah, he's brilliant. Come on. Get into it, baby. You got it. You got it. Come on. Listen, listen. you know um that this is the guy you're going to partner up with like was that the first intention like nah hell no dave dave was just cool we used to go to harvard but what i dug about dave was like dave didn't need to be around a whole bunch of different dudes Dolo but really was like he's from DC so he really didn't act like you know say then you know Like when you around one thing about racism it breaks down a couple of things It breaks down is crimp crime because no matter what it don't matter if you connected with somebody and y'all doing some dirt

There's never no racism. He could be Irish, Italian, black. If y'all are homeboys, y'all are, you feel me? But then it just goes on. It was like, okay, he's at Harvard. I'm over here. Damn, he's kind of cool. You know what I'm saying? Fuck it.

Let's just go see what over here is like. Go fuck with Dave. And was he the first person that when you spoke to him, you said, yo, maybe I could get out the streets? No. Oh, you wanted to get out the streets before that? No, hell no. You didn't want to get out the streets. No, no. Yeah, you didn't want to get on the streets. No. Yeah. I was wild We're talking about that story to talk about things. No, I didn't. Paul was a set tripper. He was 1090. No, no, no.

Is that how it happened? No, no, no. He was 1090? No. We can talk about that, too. All right, later, later. Later. Let's stay back on the source. Okay, all right.

Big up to Paul Pierce. Right. Y'all cool now? Yeah, it was cool then. Okay, cool. You know what I'm saying? You know, Rasheed Rollins want to come up here. You know, he might tell a story.

Rasheed cool. I know Rasheed, too. Rasheed was there that day. No, Rasheed wasn't there. He was in the playroom. I'm talking with you. Look at him. He had to think about it, though. No, Rashid wasn't. He was in the playroom. I'm talking with you. Look at that. He had to think about it, though.

No, I remember that. Trust me. I remember that. So let's talk about it. Right. You made the transition to reality. But before you made the transition to reality, you didn't give a fuck about telling the industry to kiss your ass.

Nah. How did that attitude derive? It wasn't. No, it was just different times. You know what I'm saying? Back then, you know, you know what I'm saying? It was just, I don't know. You know, I'm from Boston.

Right. Always kind of, I always got a little, I'm older, so I got a little revolutionist in me, you know? Revolutionist in me. Yeah, well, you know, because. Black Panther rich. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Because it's like you're seeing the struggle and you're looking at things that ain't right. And, you know, you're seeing people being politically correct.

I really didn't understand what that was. Why? As much as I do now. Why? You know what I'm saying? But back then, I felt like I had no political correctness. That's when you know you're a real revolutionary is when you have no political correctness. I don't think of that anymore because I have a lot of politically correctness.

Let's make some noise for that. I'm being honest. I'm being honest. But that don't take away, you know, that spirit. Your hood is. The hood is different. The hood's there. You know, I did it, done that, but I'm saying as far as really giving a fuck for the betterment of our culture.

I'm going to have to actually take another shot of Hennessy because I'm about to go deep. Go ahead. Go ahead. Pause. Pause. Pause. Look at, you know, I love when Zeno get drunk. Do you remember the time he got drunk and you left in the wheelchair?

Oh, shit. I don't drink. I don't drink, I don't drink, I don't drink You remember that time? I don't drink like him He's different Some of you know that I don't drink like him You listen there was no Snapchat, there was no Instagram

I remember that People had to actually listen to my story on this and that They thought he wasn't from Snapchat Fuck actually listen to my story on this is not yeah I'm going to the hotel it was like y'all can walk they went and got him a wheelchair I was like oh my god this is a body right here and I it was no film I got a lot of everything

really a drink like a drinker and they start making start hanging out with me you know you don't I noticed where you get fucked is when you mix champagne, you can see white, you just, all over the place. Right.

But see, but that's how they drink. Like they, like they, Sonny, are you trying to make me and Sonny? Yeah. I ain't go for a Dave drink like that too.

Dave is a, Dave, let me just tell you about Dave. Listen, I've hung out with Dave just like I hung out with you. And Dave, he be drunk,

he just be quiet. He just be like, he be fucked up. You and Son I hung out with you and Dave he be drunk. They just be quiet He's a transsexual Set it wrong. A dry sexual. She tries anything. My bad, my bad. My bad, my bad. Yeah, big difference, big difference. So, Zeno. Let's go, because, you know, we on the podcast.

I'm still waiting for the home. I always had to ask this question. Uh-huh. Got five mics. Did you have anything to do with that mic system? Man, listen, listen. You know what? I'm I'm be honest with you right It's like you know When you have

Relationships you know what I'm saying In the industry Male and female friends you know what I'm saying Like your friends Friends or relationships that's two different things Friends I'm saying like when you dealing with Covers and magazines it's all about Relationships with the artist You know what I'm saying with the person You know what I'm saying like when you when you when you dealing with covers and magazines, it's all about relationships with the with the artist

You know I'm saying with the person Got to talk to us for real Smash huh, well you smash what? We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you.

We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you.

We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. We can't tell you. This is the room on the street Cause you know why The room on the street I gotta give you a high five

Because listen Everybody wanted On a record Out of respect for And my girl One with Nathithia That's back in the day I wouldn't even

You know what I'm saying I'm just saying No no no Because you know You know what I'm saying Just as gentlemen We don't We don't kiss and tell

You know what I'm saying We don't kiss and tell As gentlemen You we don't we don't kiss until as as gentlemen Like wanted to do records, but there's a rumor that you actually were what? Both of them. I think we should make some noise for that.

Make some noise. Even if it's just a rumor. Fuck yeah. Spread the rumors. Spread the rumor. It's back in the days before you met your wife. It's back in the days.

Listen, listen. No? Listen, listen, listen. I'm going straight. Take another shot. It's back in the day. Listen, listen, listen. No? Listen, listen, listen. Because I'm going straight. Take another shot. Take another shot. Salud. Salud.

Salud. Oh, man. You? Yeah. You told me you wanted to do this. I didn't know if you made it from that angle. Sorry. I'm a media guy now.

Like, roles is reversed. The roles is reversed. Roles is reversed. First, Dave and Zeno used to hit me for his interviews, and guess what? I'm hitting you off. You know what the two be? You still didn't answer the question. Honestly, it's about relationships.

It's about relationships with everybody in this business. So who you would say is better? Tell him, Dave. So who would you say is better? Tell him, Dave. So who would you say is better? He's going to sit there and say shit. So who would you say is better?

Rapping? Rapping? Whichever way you want to answer it. I'm going to be honest with you. Both of them are really the best

they ever do now. It's going to come a time you got to see this. Yeah, what you saying? They ain't seen it. They ain't seen it. No, no, no. No, no, no.

No, no, no. No, no, no. You're going to dodge the question. It's not dodging nothing. All right, look. We're going to play a game. He's trying to hip hop. We're going to play a game.

No, no, no. I know a lot of people on hip hop. No, no, no. Hold on. This is what we're going to do, Zeno. That was bullshit. We're going to play a game. If you don't want to answer the question, you're going to take a shot.

All right? All right, but I got to pour the shot. What you mean? That's the way you got to go. What you mean? I'm going to ask you a certain random question. If you don't want to answer, this is drink chance. Okay, okay, but hold on.

Hold on, no, no, no. We have to compromise that. Wait. No, no, no. Let the shots be pre-poured and we agree on the shots. Okay, pre-poured. I agree on that. I agree on that.

Yeah. Pre-poured. It's not going to let you pour the no. Okay. Let the shots be pre-poured, and we agree on the shots. I agree on that. I agree on that. Yeah. Pre-poured. It's not going to let you pour the shot. Okay. We'll be dancing out this moment for you. That's all right. That's a shot. Damn.

That's a shot. Damn. You're my friend. Let me get away with it a little bit. Let me get away with it a little bit. So, which one is better? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to tell you which one's better.

They both incredible lyricists. Great way to answer. Great way to answer. They both incredible lyricists. Great way to answer. Great way to answer. They both incredible lyricists. That's how a gentleman answers. They both are. They both are. They were never in the wrong.

You know what I'm saying? A little bit. A little bit, maybe. Listen, man. Maybe. Five mics. How do I have five mics? I'm a very private person when it comes to any type of situation like that.

Wait, but was my album worth five mics you think? In your opinion? She didn't get five. I thought she got four and a half. No, I think she got five. She got five. She got five. Oh, okay. You know what? I forget what the name of that album is.

It's right under the door here. No, because I don't know. I don't know what she got five. No, no, no, not at all. In my mind, in my mind. Do you think she should have got five? I drink. Go ahead. You ain't going to drink, nigga think she should have got five? I drink. Go ahead, if you ain't going to drink, nigga,

I'm answering the question. I actually. Do you think she should have got five? I'm a media guy. Well, I'm going to ask you. Why you pulling up on me like that? You pull up on me and go off the track like that? You can step on my dance.

You know I'm crazy. You know I'm fucking with you, Steve. Listen, listen, listen, we don't care. But, all right, we're going to play this game now. Okay, let's fucking with you, Steve. Listen, listen, listen, listen. We don't care. But, all right, we're going to play this game now. Okay, let's go. Let's go. We heard you the grapevine. Right.

At one point. Yes. You was in love with that. Oh, what the fuck? Man. What'd I say? Don't be mean. This is a lot of hip-hop.

I thought we were talking about it. I'm fucking with you. I'm going back. I'm going back. I'm going back. I'm going back. I'm going back... I'm going back. I'm going back. I'm going back to hip-hop. I just want to see if you're going to take a shot or not. And I'm moving on from here. I'm going to see if you're going to take a shot or not.

I'm going to see if you're going to take a shot or not. Yo, first of all, this isn't about relationships. This isn't about this. We don't know what it's about. I watch all your podcasts. You ask none of them niggas this. None of them niggas, none of this. I'm the nigga.

I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga.

I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. I'm the nigga. With all due respect, none of them niggas got the reputation you got. Yo, you're a sex symbol. I love Althea.

That's who I love. And I'm going to drink to that. I love you. Or you drink it. I love you, Althea. Or you drink it. Or you drink it. Althea sex symbol. I love Althea. That's who I love. And I'm a drink to that. I love you. Or you drink it to that. Or you drink it. Or you drink it. Althea, Althea, Althea. Take the whole shot.

I want to see it. Take the whole shot. Mm. Mm. Ah. Oh, it's going down. It's going down. So you was.

High five. I love it. You got, yo, you got a good hit list, man. Come over here. Come over here. When you're hit list, you got to brag. Like, it's been a pass. It's in the past. You're one of our guests already. It's in the past. Let's come on. Come on. Let's talk about're hit list you gotta brag like it's been a Thank you for being a good sport, man.

You know I'm fucking... David was looking at me like, you know. We premeditated this. I'm sorry. But listen, so let's get back to the... Let's get back to... Right now, we got the number one podcast right now. Oh, shit.

Our number one enemy. His name... Oh, shit. I don't want to call him an enemy. But he was so... He's lying. He's lying. He's lying.

He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying.

He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying.

He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying.

He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying.

He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's lying. He's going in another direction now. He's liable to go somewhere. So listen. Yo, I'm still shook up from the last segment, yo. I'm fucked up. This is all rumors. This is all rumors. This is all rumors. Listen, the drink champs, none of the stories are actual factual. I'm nice. We're actually.

Who am I having to see that? Drunk Fakes. Drunk Fakes. You want me to give you another hard question? No, no, no. Let's keep it back to him. That's on me right there. So one of our direct competition people is a guy named Elliot Wilson. That was our son.

He was employed by you guys. Our son. Where did he work for y'all at? That was our son. Okay. That was our fucking son. Now you want to talk. Let's go.

Let's go. Exactly. Okay. So what happened? I'll grab you guys. He was a music editor. He was a music editor. Let's go. Let's go. Exactly. Okay. So what happened? He was a music editor. He was a music editor. We hired him. When did we adopt him?

Like, So what did y'all say? Y'all put him on? When did we adopt him? Did y'all say y'all put him on? No, no question. Let's make some noise for

the people who put Elliot Wilson on. Okay, okay, okay, so, so, give him a nice little situation. He was a good guy, too.

He was a cool guy. I heard you spitting in his face. Is that true? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This was after, that was way after. David's looking at me like, Andrew, I don't know where he is. He was a music editor. He was never there.

He was an assistant, assistant music editor. This was probably like 97, 98. He should go get the Phillies and the Dutch. Nah, don't say that. Because we're going to ruin this. Word. Word. He was the one that worked.

I remember a few times he used to go get our lunch. The lunch? The lunch. What did you order back then? Let me see. Probably like some wings and some other shit. Whatever. But he used to get the lunch.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, right? He was like, what? Lunch meat. He was... No, I mean, he was, you know, he was... Stop! Music is...

It's a label made. I'm talking about label made. Okay, okay. Stop! He was there for six years. Six years. About four. So you guys put him on.

You deep-deep... Groomed him. You taught him the editorial. Everything he knows. Oh, wow. Everything he's seen at the source, So you guys put him on, you deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep-deep with Hip Hop Weekly, we actually outlasted Harris Publications. So are we going to make some noise for that? That's big. That's big. Because after we lost the source, they thought it was over for us. You feel me? Let me get to a question, and we're going to get back to Elliot.

It's great for us. But the new source, have you ever bought a new source and just looked through it? Not like this recently. I would never bought a new sauce and just looked through it? Not, you know, like this recently. I would never buy a new sauce. But you would never buy it because it was once your company or you would never buy it because their content

is just not up to date right now? Both. Check, check. You know what I'm saying? It ain't our shit no more. 18 years, a lot of things went through us with that. A lot of good, bad and ugly. And that was cool with of good, bad, and ugly. And y'all was cool with Londell Manila, right? It was cool with everybody.

Yeah, he was our lawyer. He was our lawyer. Everybody was our lawyer back then. Reggie O'Sears was your lawyer? Man, we worked with so many motherfuckers. It was crazy. So are you trying to say that he did something under the table? Like he was your lawyer, so he knew something? Nah, nah, nah. He just jumped in on something. He just wanted to say that he did something like under the table, like he was your lawyer, so he knew something. Nah, nah, nah.

He just jumped in on something. He just wanted to be us. You see, a lot of these motherfuckers thought that once they, no, it's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. Like, when Black Enterprise took the magazine, look at it. Oh, yeah. Look at it.

Let me tell you all a secret, right? Me and Dave went to Bob Johnson, right? Right before he, Bob Johnson. Our viewers are dumb. That's the guy who used to own BET. Own BET. Before he sold BET for $3 billion. Let's make some noise for him selling BET for $3 billion.

Goddamnit. Even if you're going to a foul story, he still sold it for $3 billion. I think he used to own the Charlotte Hornets. He's the one that sold the Hornets to... Yeah, to Jordan. Right, yeah. Jordan.

You know what I'm saying? Okay, okay. So long story short, you know, we... You know, we was in the hole 30 million, like with a bank loan. So, you know, Bob. Which means you had to at least make 60, 70 million to be in the hole 30. Bob, let's make some noise for y'all niggas killing the game. Oh, no. I'm sorry.

I got to pick y'all up. I got to pick y'all up. Come on, ass horns. Come on. Go ahead. Those days was crazy. So y'all was in the hole and and he kind of, like, backdoor? I'm saying he wanted to buy the magazine.

Straight out. For y'all directly? So, we flew to his office, me and Dave. And what was his office? L.A. or New York? It was, at this time, it was D.C. D.C.? I'm sure.

D.C., yeah. Oh, yeah, D.C. Don Joe? No, it's Bob Johnson. Oh, Bob Johnson. I'm bugging. Okay. So, you know, we wanted 80 million for it.

We went and asked him for 80 million and he came out and he came back and he said, well, I'll write you a 55 million dollar check today. And we was looking back, you know, Bob, give us some money. We went in the room, me and Dave, just us two, and we figured after like paying off the bank loan and taxes and everything else we would end up with a few million dollars a piece the whole thing about the source was and I say that to say this the whole thing about the source was that how dysfunctional

dysfunctional as dysfunctional dysfunctional as it may have seemed the relationship between me and Dave and how it was was kind of made the source of what it was. Dave being from college, I'm being from the streets. It just came from two perspectives, and that's how we ran the magazine.

You know what I'm saying? We didn't want to lose the source and then be like, okay, we're not still runners of it. Because we know how it's almost like a car. That was the offer. The offer was like, you gave 55, but y'all not. Y'all are gone. Y'allall not. Y'all are gone. Y'all are gone. Y'all are gone.

And we just couldn't do it. How about you, Dave? You didn't like that as well? No, we wanted to stay involved because we saw bigger things. Wow. Wow. I mean, especially with the Source Awards,

we did the Source All Access TV. I mean, we was doing major things. But the problem was, me and Dave wasn't with everybody. Like in New York, and that, and that, and that,

like up there, it's like a club of dudes that have been in and out. You know that, Norby. You know what I'm saying? In those offices up in New York, in the industry, it's the same people that just revolve from office to office to office because they all feel comfortable with each other. And God bless them because I've dealt with a lot of them. I've made a lot of money with them, so I have nothing bad to say about anything. But I just don't think that me and Dave was a part of that. You know what I'm saying?

And by that, meaning we had our own independent views. We didn't have to be politically correct. We didn't have to kiss no ass because it stopped up here. We didn't have to answer to nobody. And you guys were like the first major media company to invest in online media. I remember that

early. That's how we lost, though. That's ultimately how we lost. That's how we overcame 30 media. I remember that early. That's how we lost, though. That's ultimately how we lost. That's how we overcame 30 million. I thought that was a great... That was what did us in. Tell them what happened. That was me just investing early. When the dot-com came out, when it was all

going crazy with that, that's when I went and took out a big... I bet the magazine on the internet. And when I borrowed 10, 15 million dollars and started doing all kinds of stuff. This was like 6, 7 years before the world stars. It was just too early. Nobody understood us.

We was way ahead of our time. Time is everything. But Dave, it gotta feel crazy now for you to know that you had the vision for what... Because by you investing all that money, you actually sink where it's gonna be now so it gotta feel crazy that maybe it didn't work but your idea was 100% correct you know that right I mean we know we'll see but that's real though it was him and they invested oh he asked me and i was i don't know

i don't know nothing about that okay i don't know nothing about computers none of that all that it just i don't know what the it is i don't know what's that was the was y'all cool with steve style i mean you know what i'm saying steve is like somebody that we've always had that love hate thing with you know what i'm saying we've got money with him too we broke bread with him but then steve has another side of him that is about that crew. I call it that crew. You know what I'm saying? I'm just saying

at the end of the day, the other side. There's a few sides. You know what I'm saying? That's what I say. I just think that me and Dave was too a little bit rough under the edges for him. We wasn't status quo. And the source was getting money.

I'm the one that introduced Steve to the whole advertising business. Peter Arnell, that was his first partner in the advertising business. When I met Steve, he was working with Kid and Play, like carrying records. Let's make some noise for Kid and Play. Kid and Play. Yeah, you've been there before. The real advertising. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding.

But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms,

even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself,

and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first Black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant,

and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice listen to medal of honor on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast the american west with dan flores is the latest show from the meat eater podcast network hosted by me writer and historian Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and best-selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here,

and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1.

Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. You see, in this industry, a lot of people,

we don't get our props when we do the right thing. So we're going to get to the crap bottom of these stories. So you're the guy who introduced him to the advertisement firm that he started working with and then started doing the Reebok thing and all that. Absolutely. Absolutely. He was working up at RCA Records. He was at A&R up there for a little while. He gave us a deal.

He gave a deal for All Mighty RSO. He gave us a deal. He used to give me budgets for videos, you know what I'm saying? I was getting money. He had, like, budgets to do videos. He would take these 15 stacks. I'd go do the video for, like, five stacks. You know what I'm saying?

Put 10. You know what I'm saying? I remember one time, some shit I had, I got locked up. I had saying? Put ten. You know what I'm saying? I remember one time some shit happened. I got locked up. I had spent all the money. He came to Boston. He was like,

yo. And it was for this white artist named Bass Blaster out of Connecticut. We never heard of him. Look at that. Yo, it was for they signed him an RCA.

You remember my friend? Yeah, yo. They gave me 15 grand. You remember what he just done? No, it's real. That's real. Bass Blaster. This was before. This was like one of the first. He, cause Steve been trying to No, it's real. That's real. Bass Blaster. This was before.

This was like one of the first. Because Steve had been trying to do this white rapper thing for a minute. But you want me to put the money on Instagram? Steve had visions of this, of a white crossover rapper. Wow. He was the first one to really have visions of this. Wow. You know what I'm saying?

I'm sure other people had it in their mind. Of course, when Vanilla Ice came up, as as steve he he was seeing it from a marketing standpoint of look these kids out here these white kids we give them someone of their own and i always felt like no that's the opposite of what hip-hop is so the white kids are coming to the hoods because they love the music it has nothing to do with the race you can't make it race because when you make it race that's when it gets all screwed up so so interesting thing we have meant to beak on here recently, right? And Mick Bleak said he spoke about the Rockefeller breakup, right? And all the employees, how every successful team now has a Rockefeller employee that's a part of their team, whoever it be.

Right. You guys got to feel the same way. Like, I mean, how many people came from the source? Oh, man. Elliot Wilson. Oh, hold on. Miss Info?

What did Miss Info work for? Riggs Morales. Riggs Morales. Isn't he like... Who's the guy on CNN that's like this? Oh, we can go on. You got a guy on CNN?

I mean, we can go on. Hold on, I didn't know that part. What happened? You got a guy who worked at the source? No, not Tore. The other dude. Tore?

Tore came to the source. Okay, there. Tore. Tore came through Source. Okay, there's a lot of Tore's. Mike Elliott, who directed Love and Basketball and all that. You're just putting on Elliott. Yeah, Mike Elliott started with us. Elliott Wilson. Elliott Wilson. That's his name.

Elliott Wilson, Mike Elliott. No, it's Mike Elliott. Mike Elliott directed Love and Basketball. Mike Elliott directed Love and Basketball and a few other movies and shit. Browns. Just a little more apps, right? Huh? Because I'm so fucked up with Love and Basketball and a few other movies and shit. Brown Sugar. It's Omar Apps, right? Uh-huh. Because I'm so fucked up

with Love and Hip Hop and Love and Basketball. He was like, yeah, those were his movies. So you feel me? So it's like a lot of people came through them offices.

A lot of people came through the sources. Tyson Beckford, we discovered him. Tyson Beckford, y'all discovered the source? The Boondock. He was the first

in the Boondock's cartoon starting the source. That's what I remember.? The Boondock. He was the first in the Boondock's cartoon starting source. That's what I remember. Tell me about that. How did that happen? Well, he actually, he was doing it in the University of Maryland newspaper. When I went home to D.C., I had

something, I think my mom gave me the newspaper. I seen the comic in there. Boondock's. Boondock's is dope. I remember the first time you came spoon dogs the bones is dope I remember the first time we came to the source cartoon strip in the source like in the newspaper yeah think about a think about all the graffiti the source introduced you know saying motherfuckers never like honestly niggas wasn't fucking with the crazy shit about sauce kept graffiti going for a long time

when I told all my friends I I was like, yo, you know I got busy, you know what they made like people were sitting there like, you know how much I used to read the bag And like they still get emotional every part of that like when a motion discovered that in jail the source magazine I gotta commend you guys because there's never been a magazine that's been that credible people don't listen to people right now Like if a person can do another... There's plenty of magazines that try to bite your mic rating system. It never worked, man. How proud are y'all

of that? You know what I mean? I can feel that with you, Dave. Go ahead. We was there first. We did it the right way. We kept it street, kept it real, kept it hip-hop. It was a beautiful thing.

We didn't answer to nobody. We owned and controlled our own thing. We wasn't, you know, we was out of all the entrepreneurs, you go back and look at the history, Russell Simmons on everybody down there, they all had major corporation partners backing them. You know, ours was done completely independently. Dolo, dolo.

Completely independently. So it wasn't until the dot-com, that's when, you know, I lost control of it because I bet everything on the dot-com. But you were right. You were just like. Ahead of his time. He was ahead. How could y'all.

That's crazy that you got to be punished for being smarter than everybody else. Then imagine this Then it ends up That the internet Is killing print magazine Yeah right See what I'm saying He knew it though

He seen it He knew it Like I know He's a genie He seen it Next time he say something You gotta just listen You gotta give him

Two years on it I mean look You know it happens It happens But you know But you can't You can't worry about that shit Let's get to the source awards

You gotta keep going You know what I'm saying Let's get to the source awards Whose idea was to keep going. You know what I'm saying? Let's get to the Sauce Awards. Whose idea was it and why did everybody get shot over off there? Nobody ever got shot. You had a good performance

at the Sauce Awards. I had a couple of good performances. All right, come on now. I just never won a Sauce Award. We'll get to that later. You still my brother. You still my brother. I never won a Sauce Award.

But listen, at this time, when you were hot, you had to be at the Source. How did you guys come up with that idea? Like, how does a magazine company figure will do awards? Start in the magazine. I mean, the whole thing. Start in the magazine first.

Yeah, the whole thing. What award? The awards was in the magazine. The whole thing with the Source was to be a voice for the culture. I mean, so as we're being a voice for the culture we're seeing that hip-hop isn't being recognized in fact it's being you know disrespected at award shows the grammys things like that that had hip-hop categories in the late 1980s everything they were doing was just you know yeah disrespectful so you know it was natural for us to want to come up with a, you know,

a forum to be able to recognize, you know, the real stuff that was going on. So that was my whole idea. So the first thing was to bring it to MTV. And Yo! MTV Raps, we did it as a day on Yo! MTV Raps where we gave out the Source Awards. That's how it started. That was the very first one, 1991, with Ed Lover and Dr. Dre. You guys got to stop moving back there.

Okay, listen, listen. You guys are fucking up this shit. You got to stop moving, please. You're moving and snoring. Smack the nigga that's snoring. Please. And come over here, man. Be a part of the conversation.

So listen, this is what I want to ask. That's your night day. Woo! That wasn't the first one that was no way no what was that the second or third remember Bernie Mac hosted the first one imagine that wow all right Bernie Mac yeah Bernie Mac hosted the first one it was at the Paramount Theater in New York in New York so where's the first one the first one's in New York right there same thing okay so how did that moment sit when the whole Wu-Tang Clan came out, ODB,

like we got videotapes of all these shits right there. We had to do a Best of the Sorcerers and I had to edit out all of them. So we had to combine all this shit and man, just sitting there editing

and seeing all these groups. The biggest thing with me because I come from group and hip hop and regardless of anything, I love hip hop. Tell them. Let's make some noise for them. Let's make some noise for them. I mean, honestly, like for real, I come from group and hip-hop and regardless anything I love him For real I was a DJ was a whole block yeah rock shock and Ray dog

Rock shock and Ray dog It's like you know I'm saying honestly like, that's the essence of hip-hop. You know what I'm saying? DJ spinning for the motherfuckers, you know, spitting. But there's sauce awards where Suge Knight, he was in New York City. Did you know that was probably, like, the minute where the East Coast, West Coast beef, not saying it sparked, but that was the time it came on national front. Like, we had always heard that, you know, there had been some beef brewing, but when Chug came there, it was like.

It was timing. That was just timing. But did you guys, was you guys aware of that? Of course, but it was timing. You was aware he was going to save it? No, no, no, no, no. It was going to be tension. We was aware something could have popped off. Right, because you had heard the beep or whatever.

Yeah, and we didn't have to see what was crazy about that particular one. Like, we've had, like, the later ones, we've had more time security. A lot of times with the Nation of Islam, you know what I'm saying? Shout out to the Nation of Islam. You know, Mr. Farrakhan, because he's always dealt with security. They've always handled it. But back then, we really didn't have a lot of security at that one. So, some was going to jump off. When all that that she was saying when we should was saying all that and everything

That would have been the one to pop off because it wasn't a gang of security Now witness the source of was we were just not happening Came on that was the first Just snack so what so what happens so box nice so so so so tribes getting the war That was the first one. That was the first one. We did Out on Bail and just snapped. So what happened? So Pop snatched Tribe's request mic. So Tribe's getting the award. You know what I'm saying? While he's getting the award, Popkin is already setting up

wherever the sound man is, bringing him to the dance. Now, was that a mistake or that was done over? We knew nothing about this one. We knew nothing about this one, nigga. So that man went to the sound man and told the nigga, yo, you're going to put this in there,

the Out on Bail song, the Dap Man or whatever so like they had him off nobody knew that they just went and just had him hostage oh you took my pocket though yeah pocket it came back about 12 13 14 date couple niggas went right to the sound man we never knew this this is what you know i'm saying i seen big sight and later on he told me the whole shit so okay but I from what from my viewpoint out there I just remember him going up there and then he grabbed cuz I was like kind of backstage and I remember I was back there with total and then he just went up there and just you know q-tip was saying a speech just grab shit say yo throw that shit out Obey or niggas started and the music did my music came on he ripped that shit and I remember backstage I remember what arm Q tip the niggas came back morning they said

sliding the niggas was like one of niggas was crying like really upset like you don't fuck the arm with our it's not God rest the dead fight the other one opposite their fight There was two more to roll me not your old beat the other one Ali Shahi Ali Shahi He was just upset kicking over shit just mad He was gonna perform what it was present now, but this was their big award He just went to see I get that and you know, you know as well as the Sauce Awards was, and as wild as it was. Biggie was an audience, though. At that first show. Yeah, was when that happened.

Let's make some noise for Biggie being an audience. So, as wild as the Sauce Awards was, and as monumental, there's never been somebody on that aspect. Nobody has ever been able to duplicate the Sauce Awards in a hip hop version I have never seen an award show I don't give a fuck what happened backstage you guys held it together

like in an award show it was an amount of respect for the magazine and really for the relationship it's hard dealing with artists amount of respect for the magazine and really for the relation like i told you the relationships like it's hard given you know dealing with artists and when they get mics and when they you know i'm saying because again i would have nothing to do with it and could be mad at me because they didn't get you know i'm sorry so anyways um you just made great shows i mean those shows

i'm to be honest You guys are my friends You guys are my brothers You guys are my family But I'm not saying that Because of this I sit back and I watch Award shows

And just so happens There has never been An award show presented As dope as the Source Awards I appreciate that Thank you I mean I'm just keeping it honest with you

Like How do you feel about that? Do you. I mean, I'm just keeping it honest with you. How do you feel about that? Do you think it can ever be done, or do you think that you guys should do an award show again? We had the blueprint. We had the blueprint. You still got the blueprint. You ain't giving it to nobody. No, no, no.

What I'm saying, I'm saying as far as like we started the blueprint, all right, as far as giving great shows for artists that probably wouldn't get the same type of coverage in other award shows. Right. Once Dave cleared it with the networks to get on TV, because remember, it was on BET, UPN 33. I mean, Dave got it all over the place on major networks, on cable networks, the Source Awards for, like, remember, this was just... They even had a Source TV show, right? The All Access.

Two of them. Two different shows. And the Source Sound Lab with two times on Saturday. Saturday afternoon, 12 o'clock. We gave Ray J his first TV show. Ray J was the first host.

First of our TV was through us. Shout out to Ray J. Ray J did hit it first. That's so correct. You know what I'm saying? Let's make some noise for Ray J.

So, what do you guys think of these award shows now? Do you think these guys should hire you as a consultant at least? Don't lie. Keep it real. Don't lie.

Oh, yeah, keep it 1,000, my nigga. I mean, shit. They should. Hell, yeah. Don't wait too long. But you can't replicate that error either. No, no, you can't. It's an error.

You can't. No, no, no. No, the problem is motherfuckers are scared to fuck with the real shit. That's always been the problem. Right. It's always the inability if we can't control certain motherfuckers and they cruise. Because it ain't easy. Right.

You know what I'm saying? But it's like, but there's a way that you deal with motherfuckers. We all know that. We all come from the street. We all know how to deal with everybody. You know what I'm saying? But there's other people who can't deal like that. They don't have that respect.

They don't have that... Mutual respect. I think they don't even give it a chance. Right. You know what I'm saying? They already assume it's going to be

some crazy shit not knowing this is going to be the shit. Yeah, they wouldn't even try. Right. Right. The J-Rock, he was snoring up crazy.

This is you, J-Rock. QB's finest snorer. We never made it commercial and political. We just put the hottest street niggas on. Didn't give a fuck what it was all over the place. When you go back and look at them shows, them shows will go down in history as what American bandstand is going to be for rock. Because those shows right there, all the source awards,

it'll never be like that again. Not only that, though, but the most iconic groups were together. You know what I'm saying? You and Capone. How about a pun? Did you ever, he said, and jerk me like the Source Awards. That was crazy. What did y'all think about that?

It was fucked up. Y'all jerked me, too, at the same Source Awards. How do you think about it? Who was you up against? Tell me, who was you up against? Sip the Chaka won, man. No. Yeah, Sip the Chaka.

Look at me and my eyes.? Silt and Shaka won, man. No! Yeah, yeah, Silt and Shaka. What? Look at me in my eye. Yo, yo! Look at me in my eye. Look at me in my eye. Look at me in my eye. Look at me in my eye. Yo, this is the situation, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Silt and Shaka beat me in big money. I just look forward. Nah, shout to Silt and Shaka. Shout to Matt. That whole movement. But he was hot. Listen, at the end of the day, he was hot himself. Like, Silt was big.

I ain't hating, but I'm petty. You know what I'm saying? I'm not hating, but I'm petty. Of course, I'm saying? I'm not hating, but I'm petty. Of course, because you didn't understand that. I can understand that. I'd probably be petty, too. But who else was up? You, Silk, who else?

I just remember Silk being us. I don't remember. It was like, I don't know. That's what made the source great was that we could relate across the board. Silk the Shocker was definitely internationally more popular than me and Puck at that time. I won't hate, but I got love for Suit the Shocker. But the source definitely showed. Did you think it was going to win?

Did you think it was going to win? Hell yeah, I thought it was going to win. I'm going to keep it real. For real. One was in front of me. Daz, because I think Corrupt dropped the album. I think Daz and Corrupt was there that day. And we all looked at each other like, yo, what's up, what's up, what's up, what's up?

They're like, yeah, one of us is going up. So the shot goes all the way on the other side. That nigga jumped up. I was like, oh. No disrespect. But I was like, oh. Oh, no, the silk, little one. And yeah, and then the partner made that rhyme.

Like, did you... What did the partner say when you lost? He said... No, no, no, no. What did the pun say when y'all lost? He said... No, no, no, no. What did the pun say when y'all lost? What did he say?

None of us said nothing to each other. We was just like, this, you know, they pay. No limit is rich. He was just like, no limit is rich. You know what I'm saying?

For real, for real. I'm like, I've never, I still haven't got over it. You know what I mean? But yeah, I won the Sauce Award. But that's, you know why? I think that you guys

were so great. You guys were doing, it's just like, you know, us doing the Sauce Award. But that's, you know why? I think that you guys were so great. You guys were doing, it's just like, you know, us doing this episode. Sometimes we might not know how great it is, but there's so many people that are young people. Like, when we got our viewers back and when, you know, people said, you know, we were doing like 400,000 and we were expecting people to say that the viewers, they're saying 16 to 24, which lets people know that people want to go back and research these things. You know what I'm saying?

So, yo, you guys doing the most legendary awards. You guys had the most legendary magazine. Now you guys got Hip Hop Weekly. Like, how did that come about? Because it's like, what is that like, I don't want to say gossip, because that like, downplays it, or is it a gossip?

I mean, well, you know, after being indicted by the feds, going bankrupt, losing everything, motherfucker had to start thinking about the future and what else that he knows and his expertise at. We knew that we was magazine, man.

We knew that if we still fucked with each other, we had a chance. We still had the same connection. Dave still had the same distribution. So was there ever a time when you guys had that, the moment, I see you just brought up the feds, but like when you guys said, man, maybe we should separate. Have to be sued for sexual harassment.

I mean, wait, wait, wait. You got sued for sexual harassment? Let's get into it. Come on, you know what happened. Who, Kim O'Zario? We really supposed to talk about it? Okay. All right.

No, no, no. I don't know. Is it seven years? Is it seven years? Is it seven years past? That shit was crazy, we sit in a federal building They talking about a nigga's nuts In the federal court down there That was crazy

Crazy So, um Oh, hold on Nuts never got me to a podcast before it's a little different but um so we can't talk about the sexual I mean you know you know that like with the source

it was my decision to give Kim to be the first woman editor and chief of the magazine it was my idea she had been working there five years I kind of like looked beside the woman-man thing and just seen that she was qualified. She was a hell of a writer. Against popular demand.

Like this was an unpopular choice for me to do this. I was looking over people. So I did it. You know what I'm saying? And man, we went on and we had... Oh my God, who poured me that drink? There's no more pineapple? Oh my God. Yeah, sorry, we went on and we had. Oh, my God. Who poured me that drink? There's no more pineapple? Oh, my God.

Yeah, sorry, sorry. I'm about to die in the podcast. You'll be the most legendary guest, that way. No, no, no. Go ahead. First thing. Go ahead. No, no.

So, I mean, basically, it was just a situation where I'd never seen anything like it, you know. But what I've noticed in business, like I've learned being a part of business, because, again, I was a street nigga. You know what I'm saying? Selling drugs. And, you know, I learned business in magazine through Dave. All right? Let's make some noise for Dave. You know what I'm saying?

Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Dave. Clap your fucking hands, man. Come on, man. Niggas is dead. They've been filming our food show for three days. No, but, no, but, no, but. Every day in the sun.

But it was like a long time before I even seen money from the source, when the source was made. Wow. Yeah, but... Every day in the sun. But it was like a long time before I even seen money from the source, from when the source was made. Yeah, it was years. Because I heard the source actually started from like a pamphlet, right? A newsletter. Yeah, a one-page newsletter.

A little one-page newsletter. How the fuck do you take a newsletter to a $30 million company? I need to be a friend of $30 million. It's almost a $100 million company. Okay, let's make some noise. I need to have work for $100 million. Everybody!

Everybody! Everybody! It's almost a hundred million dollar company Okay let's make some noise Everybody Everybody I know niggas work for a hundred million man Come on let's do it So that's crazy man And now So many people came from there Are there people that XXL bit You want to talk about that

Biggie right Common yo all my Unsigned Hype Unsigned Hype Mob Deep I was in Unsigned Hype

Eminem was in Unsigned Hype who else you said Mob Deep was in Unsigned DMX DMX was in Unsigned Hype Biggie was in Unsigned Hype now

what here you guys go you guys finally make it. You got a magazine that's popping. Why did you even think about putting on the guys that nobody cared about? Like, when I was in Uncited Hype, nobody cared about me. But yet and still, you guys had the foresight to see that and put that on.

Whose idea was that? Matty C. Matty. Yeah, Matty was a big part of that. Wow. And wasn't Matty C the guy who helped discover Biggie as well? Yeah. Oh, let's make some noise for Matty C. Matty. Yeah, Matty C. Matty C. Matty C. Matty C. is a big part of that. Wow. And wasn't Matty C. the guy who helped discover Biggie as well?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's Richard Lewis and Matty C. Wherever you at, Matty C. And Riggs too,

right? Riggs was a big part of that as well. Oh, yeah, Riggs. Riggs came in later on. Later on.

Later on. But the original was like Matty. I mean, honestly, like to be honest, everybody that contributed to the source

is a part of the success of the source. Throughout all the chaos and everything, you can't take away one's work you know i'm saying one's body of work and there was a lot of them and it was and it was from young people who really lived and truly what they thought about the culture and understood and cared about hip-hop i just think that in my opinion like you know as the culture grew and it kind of like, it was that one

at one point then all of a sudden it started kind of branching off in its own form in different places. That's when it was harder to keep things together.

You know what I'm saying? Jay Da Kid said something on our podcast. He said, hip-hop is the only genre of music that has a south version, that has an east coast version

or a west coast version or right a west coast version right but we did that there's no west coast but niggas did that yeah but

what do you think that started from because of gangs the barrels like it's like you know what I'm saying like when a person say

I'm from Boston you say I'm from Roxbury I'm from Wilkes-Barre but it's funny because you can say that like if you in New York you could be like yeah well I'm from Queensbridge I'm from Left Rock but then if you go out of town nigga I'm from Wilk. Right. But it's funny because you can say that like if you in New York you could be like yeah well I'm

from Queensbridge I'm from Leverack but then if you go out of town nigga I'm from New York.

Well I'm from motherfucking I'm from L.A. So it turns from street to city to you know

if you go out the country nigga I'm from the United States. You know what I'm saying?

So like it's just really it's you trying to it's us trying to rep something so hard

that we gonna give our lives for it. Right. Sometimes it don't be the right thing. It don't be the right thing. You know. So you guys stuck together, man. You guys had beef with Dr. Dre.

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Not like that. Let me just finish. Hold on. Let me clear that up. You guys went against. Let me clear that up. Let me clear that up.

Let's clear it up. Let me clear that up. Great place to clear it up. Within the whole Eminem thing, let's clear that up. Guys win against. Let me clear that up. Let me clear that up. Let's clear it up. Let me clear that up. Great place to clear it up. Within the whole Eminem thing, let's just get it, Dr. Dre is probably one of my heroes. Like, motivators, legends, I mean, influences,

everything to do with hip-hop, a lot of it, you know what I'm saying? Other than, okay, New York is where I got my hip-hop from. But Dr. Dre had so much influence from his production and just from the groups that he produced and me with my lover, West Coast Hip-Hop, you know what I'm saying? Because from. But Dr. Dre had so much influence from his production and just from the groups that he produced

and me with my love of West Coast hip hop. You know what I'm saying? Because I loved it all. It was the situation. Yeah, there was never beef with him. And it necessarily wasn't a beef with Eminem. Right. Do you ever just regret it?

Just like sit down? Nah, for what? For what? It hasn't really changed my life. You know what I'm saying? I don't look back I mean I know maybe

In a way People could look at it As it has But it really hasn't Like I'm a hustling nigga That sold crack And drugs from a corner

And came from the projects So anything Better than that Is alright with me You know what I'm saying? Honestly I'm not no nigga that's Like I've had millions

I've had nothing And everything in between And I'm still Zeno Been the same nigga Let's make some noise for that guy You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Honestly, I'm not no nigga that's, like, I've had millions, I've had nothing and everything in between, but I'm still Zeno. Been the same nigga. All right, let's make some noise for that guy. You know what I'm saying? All right. But, so, back in the days, you guys, like, if he was against the sauce, he was against the sauce.

But you guys, like, you was the first people who was to stand up against corporations. We heard rumors of Jimmy Iovine offering you guys deals. I mean, that was the whole Eminem beef. Oh, that was a part of the Eminem beef. Oh, I was confused. That was the situation. Really, the whole thing with that was, like, I just felt like with MTV crossing over. You guys had the sauce at the Def Jam, right?

The sauce. You guys, like, for y'all, didn't you have the source, like, compilation, and it came out on DevTab? Under the chair, yeah, with Leo at those days. That, like... That's the first time I ever seen a $4.5 million check, like... Let's make some noise for that guy. Thank you so much.

If somebody don't roll no weed, I'm about to smoke a cigarette. Fuck up the atmosphere. Yeah, $4.5 million. Somebody roll some weed. Leo gave me a $4.5 million. One of the now compilations we did the source of bumping you got a four and a half i negotiated that i negotiated that okay did you pay the artist i negotiated no yeah yeah yeah yeah i'll just go pay me i'm sure they do i was on one of them i'm saying hey you guys you guys

yeah i don't know why you guys get a bad rap. Why is it? You know what it is. Before, I mean, the thing is, you guys were so powerful that it was easier to say you guys are bad guys than it is for people to try to get to know you. And what I mean by that is, if a person know that their shit is whack or they know that they can't get at you, it's easier for them to say, man, I'm a source niggas, whatever, whatever. But the minute you get in front of you guys, you guys are hip-hop historians. You guys are great people. Why did you think you guys ever got the

bad rap? What's going on? Because we wasn't, again, we wasn't just bowing down. We wasn't going along with conforming. Conform. I don't know that word. We wasn't going along with the go-along. He was like the rebels.

And, you know, with me, it's looking like, you know, because that's how the feds came in. They thought I was straight. I got hit with all kinds of money laundering and extortion. And they thought that I was the big drug dealer funding. And the problem with that was the same thing with Murder, Inc. is that I don't think the people really understood how many millions of dollars legally we were bringing funding. And the problem with that was the same thing with Murder, Inc. is that I don't think the people really understood how many millions of dollars

legally we were bringing in. Like the sources. See, they're thinking or Murder, Inc. Jaisal, 30 million units. That's a lot of fucking money. You know what I'm saying? Come on.

Everybody clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Come on, Dave. Come on. Yeah, so they just underestimated

how much legal money it was. They thought it had to be some big, unlegal operation because of all this money, but that's what it was. Because they was looking at the tax situation. After the criminal broke down and I had to deal with the taxes, I took it to trial, and they found me not guilty. I was one of the few to be found not guilty. Of course, I had to pay the fine. Yeah, one of the few to be a federal tax case Of course, I had to pay the fine. Yeah, like one of the few to be a federal tax case. Everybody caught taxes.

Took it to trial. Took it to trial. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

This medal is for the men who went down that day. immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant,

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Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

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really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. They had our accountant Wired up and shit To meet you Wired up Yeah you know what I'm saying The work at the source That Dave hired Wait up

Hold on Let's rewind that They hired Our accountant Dave hired the accountant Yeah but he didn't They approached him At Dunkin Donuts

Over the George Washington Bridge Oh the The fast approach To the accountant That you hired And they asked him To wear a wire I was wearing a wire for three days.

At Dunkin Donuts, that first one on Route 4, the first Dunkin Donuts, he said he went in there. They sat with him. They said, and he said the reason he did it because he thought it would be exciting to do. What? He wore a wire for like six months and shit. Wait, wait. Tell me. I thought you were going to say six months.

No, no. Six months. So what was he doing coming around you and like just leaning his shoulder? months and shit conversations I'd be like yo check this out I'd be like my man I don't even fucking know you Dave you know we talk Patriots and Jets the Patriots and Jets other than that I don't know you so I'll talk to you about nothing but you knew he was I don't know you, so I don't talk to you about nothing. But you knew he was... I didn't know nothing. You had a feeling it was just wrong. I just don't even be having these conversations with motherfuckers. We ain't talking sports or some other shit.

Motherfucker, I'm not sitting here talking about taxes and all this other... What are you talking about, man? That's what the fuck you hired for. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Go talk to Dave. He hired you. I don't know you.

You know what I'm saying? And that's how it went. Until the nigga came. When I was on trial, he came Dave. He hides you. I don't know you. You know what I'm saying? And that's how it went until the nigga came. When I was on trial, he came in. He couldn't even look at me. I'm looking at this nigga like, and it was always,

like, it was always cool. I never did nothing to this motherfucker. I hardly know him. How long was he working there? George worked there a good five, six years. Five years? Making like $150,000 a year.

And he wore a wire. And he wore a wire. I was about to say make some noise for him. Don't do that. We got to do something that's the opposite of making some noise. Damn, he wore a wire.

That was whack. See, a lot of people don't understand. I used to give people in the source like real... No, no, no. Fuck it. I used to give people in the source, like, real... No, no, no. Fuck five mics. Real diamond source change for the girls and for the guys. The real diamond and ice from Jacob.

Man, we spent so much money with Jacob. It wasn't even ridiculous, man. Like, we took care of our people. You know what I'm saying? We, like, we took care. This was before all the fake diamonds. This was the real... There wasn't no...

For the boys and nights. For that. You know what I'm saying? Any ice. This was the real There wasn't no For the boys and nights For that You know what I'm saying Any ice This was the real shit We was spending money Taking care of niggas And like

I don't know what it was man It was always an uphill climb For motherfuckers To really try to You know Street niggas fuck with us But it was like The industry motherfuckers

Wasn't too many fucking I knew you for so long We lived in the same building And I've never heard the story Of a nigga wearing a wire. Yeah. This is my first time. I'm learning a lot.

That's crazy. I'm learning a lot. You got a question? No, one thing, though, is that the first time I ever heard your name was in Carlito's Way's article. Carlito's Way, that's what he called it. Oh, okay. I get called to that job straight out of jail.

You know what I'm saying? I forgot the source was Carlito's Way. Like, shit. Ask Carlito about Zeno. As soon as you get out of jail you hire him because we need

niggas like that out of jail like hire him. I was the one to do the hip hop behind bars that was my idea you know what I'm

saying? So you hired Carlito straight out of jail? Out of jail straight out of jail. Yeah I remember Carlito.

Yeah cool right? He's cool. Great dude. I don't see I mean if they still holding grudges this long like come on, if they still holding grudges this long, like, come on. When you say holding grudges, are you saying that, like, because you're saying you had arguments.

Every relationship has an argument, whether it's your girl, your friend. No, this is more than arguments. Yeah, there was some thumps. There was some. A couple niggas got punched in the face? There was a couple, you know. Let's talk about it. I remember it was the RCA Records. And remember um, who's the RCA records?

This is um, and then not the source guys source niggas came up to the meeting. We had an RCA records We're having a meeting about our EP. There was a heard as a a press day When clue was the assistant there at RCA Records before he was DJ Clue I think he was just getting into it you know what I'm saying so they scheduled

we didn't know but they scheduled an interview we're going to come up and interview them and then they came up there with a subpoena and try to serve them with a subpoena who the source is the editors from the source. I heard something about this they trying to boycott you. No no this was another time. No that was all related. It was all related. They came to RCA offices and lied to get upstairs to our press day. We have all these press days. And it's the people from The Source. The Source. That you guys are employing. Like four of them.

Reggie Dennis, James Bernard, a couple of them. They came up there and they stood in front of, like, we was on this big ass table. Now, mind you, we happy. We with the people at RCA. Garth Brooks is up in the building and shit like that. They already heard. Niggas was wild. They waiting to, like, throw us out the building anyway right man like cbs is ready to do the

just stole on him next thing you know chairs he went through the glass window we got dropped from rca the next week let's make some noise for y'all keeping the gangster sorry if you didn't know, Drink Chance Podcast, we make noise for the ignorant. We love it over here. Here, you can take one pair. You mad red, man. I can tell you really put in work this week with me.

Because, yo, listen, I'm mad blacker up. In case you didn't know, I'm blacker up. I was filming the Fool Show. Man, you was a part of our Fool Show. You're the first person. Yeah, yeah. Part of the Fool Show and the podcast in the same day. This is what we planned on doing with the podcast.

Planned on traveling with the food show, getting people on the food show. And then we had Scarface there today. Shout out to Brother Mob. That's my guy, man. He went to the hospital. Yeah, I heard y'all fucked him up. We almost killed Scarface today. See, you gotta have it.

Yo, I hope you saw in the contract if you eat some fucked up shit that Nori give you. No, nigga. I'm gonna be honest. Scarface is crazy. He's always been crazy. But like in a genius, crazy way.

No faces, man. He walked over in his throat. Legend, yo. He went like this. I was like, oh, I thought that's like how a nigga do before he eat. No, no, because your shit swell up. No, his shit swell up was like, oh, I thought that's like how the nigga do before he eat. No, no,

because your shit swell up. No, his shit swell up before he touched it, fool. Yeah. You can die because you can't breathe. It'll block me too.

Word. Yeah, so big up to Face Mall. That's my brother, man. Thank you for coming to the Fool Show. You know what I mean?

We'll try and get you on the podcast tomorrow because you got to make it up to me, you're my brother. But hang, hang. But listen.

Talk to me. Do you think the sauce A feeling like the sauce can ever be Recreated Like something like it Like souls is natural and raw And you know discovering new talent Because I would say

It would be this podcast But then I would be lying Because we're not discovering new talent We want to speak to legends And people who got these 90 stories. Can any form or shape or fashion can the source ever be created where people...

Listen, in case you guys didn't know, it was said in the source it was the word of God. Nobody can dispute it. If CNN got four mics that's it nobody disputes it

can any format could ever recreate that I'm glad you're taking your time you think so? I don't think so you think that can happen? it's possible only because there's really nothing out there right now that has a great voice for the culture. There's nothing really there.

There's Worldstar. Big up Worldstar. It's just unorganized right now. You think it'd be a digital format, not print? It has to be everything. It has to be a combination of not it has to be everything it gotta be this has been a combination of digital tv print it has to be a combination of everything really multimedia to really get across but but like with that has to come trust in who's doing it you see a lot of these things that you're

talking about all becomes the trust and the comfortableness of the person with the people who are doing it how much experience they, how much credibility they have, and how many people they can cross over because it's so many different areas of hip-hop now, man. It's not unified like before. So not only is it territorialized, but it's also sectioned off

within the territory. It's just a matter of how you try to come and do it. I feel like me and Dave have put in enough work that, you know, like we're in talks right now for Hip Hop With You TV show. I think you should do it. TMZ style or? No, no, no, not that.

Because it's not about necessarily that, but we want to do it more like a magazine show, like how we did it before The Source magazine. Entertainment Tonight. Entertainment Tonight. You know what I'm saying? Access Hollywood. You actually have to get these guys to sign off. Because Access Hollywood You actually have to get these guys to sign off Because TMZ don't have to get these guys to sign off

We could actually do that too If we go on location somewhere But usually it's just blurbs You know what I'm saying But all of them signing off Because I've seen you guys early on that The first time I ever heard Remy Ma was about to be released from prison, I seen it

on Hip Hop Weekly. Your camera guy was out there. Shout to Mark. Everybody else said Remy Ma was about to be released. I didn't believe it. I was on the road somewhere and I looked at Hip Hop Weekly's

and every time Hip Hop Weekly was on point, was posting something, everything that y'all posted was 100% accurate. Other websites wasn't. We gotta have that on TV. See, that should be on just like how CNN got it. Right. You know what I'm saying? That's what we're trying to do. And like I said,

look, lovers, haters, anything in between, you can't take away our experience in this game. I mean, we've lived through all these decades of hip-hop and it's changed dramatically and we still here you know and you know that ain't bragging that's just a testament to just trying to be a part of the culture and understand the culture you know what i'm saying you know so like no matter what you know what i'm saying like we we we think that if we can get when we get hip Hip Hop Weekly on TV and get the show, then that's

going to be the beginning of now. You met with Lionsgate, right? You remember how that happened? I met with Lionsgate, yup. That's right. I've been all through Hollywood with that, you know what I'm saying? How about Flavor Unit? Have you been on the Flavor Unit?

Talked to Shaq Kim a few times, but you know what I'm saying? We have talked to some people, you know what I'm saying? Right now there's a lot of networks that's looking for real, with Empire being so big, there's a lot of networks that's looking for real, like with Empire being so big, there's a lot of networks that's, you know what I'm saying, looking at black culture like, hey, we better fuck with them. You know what I'm saying? Looking at love and hip hop numbers. Those are big numbers. Now, that's a question I'm going to ask you, Dave. You know, he's always been your partner.

You guys are friends. You guys are brothers. But how did you feel the first time he told you he was going to do Love & Hip Hop? How did you feel about that? I mean, I supported it. We just moved to Atlanta and one thing led to another

and he told me about it. Because Love & Hip Hop wasn't that big. It was an accident. It wasn't that big when you started. What do you mean by that? I'm saying me and Stevie have been fucking around. It was some accident. It was an accident. It wasn't that big when you started. It actually was an accident. What do you mean by that? I'm saying, like, you know, me and Stevie had been fucking around. I was living down here.

Stevie come fuck with me. Stevie was there. Like, I would come over to jump to the mat. Yeah, yeah, fucking right. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was, you know, I went up there to Atlanta. Arm and down. Listen.

I ain't no arm and down. Shout out to Arm and Down. I don't want to make a shout out to Arm and Down. What's it do? What's it do? It's my chase. See, we got the Arm and Down. Arm and Down is bringing it back upale Shout out to Armandale I don't want to make A shout out to Armandale This is my chaser right here Armandale Armandale So you guys had a club

You guys had a club Listen the first time I ever got maced in my life Club Zeno I got maced Infamous Come on F.A. Let me tell you something

Most of the days boy Me and you don't really Know each other But you and Alright This is the crazy shit We've all lived it on each other, but you and Jaru... Alright, this is the crazy shit. We've all lived around each other. That's so crazy. This is the craziest shit in the world.

Jaru... Jaru... Yo, you gotta be quiet, man. Jaru... I moved from left rack to West Orange, New Jersey, right? Jaru

also... Alright, Jaru also New Jersey right Ja Rule also all right Ja Rule also moves to West Orange New Jersey from there Ja moved to Saddlebrook correct um Saddle River Saddle River I'm sorry Saddle River lived next to you and then me and you somehow both moved to Miami. Right. And it connected us. So we all lived like him and Josh stayed around just to break it down for people that don't understand that. Him and Josh stayed around, lived next door to each other. Then me and Josh lived next door to each other.

Then me and Nori lived next door to each other. Then me and Nori lived next door to each other. So we all at some point, then as we're living next door to each other We all got kids around the same age So they all fucking with each other And we get close You know what I'm saying And we start dealing with each other's situations You know we come into each other

Because that's really When I was down here You know what I'm saying I mean really you know Going through everything Relationship problems Problems with shit We had just

Everything We would talk Really we both came down here Like It's not like We was in the same boat Yeah We wanted

We wanted to get over stress Right exactly We were both stressed out Yeah you know what I'm saying So You know what I mean So we would confide each other In a lot of personal shit

You know what the best thing about you is When I'm When I'm negative You would be positive When I'm positive I'd be negative You would be negative That's good though

And that was excellent That was excellent Cause if we both were negative We could have fucked you up It worked for us It worked for us It was dope You know what I'm saying I'd be negative you'd be negative that's good though and that was excellent that was excellent if we both negative we could have fucked enough it worked for us it was dope you know what I'm saying

but that's how we got to be so cool really because we all spent time with each other and then when you spend time with each other it's just not you're going to tell

a motherfucker what he want to hear you're going to tell him what he think is best for him because that's the best type of friend you know what I'm saying

you know what I mean you don't tell them what they want to hear. Tell them what's best for you even if they're going to get mad at you. Fuck it. We don't talk for a week, two weeks. Fuck it, nigga. I got to say that because I care about you. It's the same thing with all of us. Everybody make some noise for that.

Here we go. You still around? Go out there and take a shot. Take a shot or so. You know, you're actually here. damn it, take a shot. Take a shot of some. Zeno, you actually here. I thought you was going to, like, make a risk. I thought you was going to, like, act like you was going to sleep. And look, this is on me.

That's Zeno. Oh. Yeah, chase your fucking rabbit. Yeah. Yeah, chase your rabbit. Yeah, this is Zeno's drink. Yeah. I am impressed, man.

I am impressed. I'm going to chase your fucking rabbit. Oh, yeah. Yeah am impressed. I don't drink, but you know when it has to be done. You know what I admire? Chase your fucking rabbit. And that's Armadale, just so you know. What's that? No, this is plain.

Oh, it is. Oh, I thought that was Dave's cup. I was like, oh, you're just going hard. I was like, he's going hard. I That's my chase. That's my chase. Your cup and Dave's cup. I was like, he's going hard. I'm chasing my rabbit. That's what Nas said. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know I gave Nas a $65,000 check for a verse and that never came out. Oh, shit. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Gave him 65 stacks for a verse that never came out. Let's get to the story. Hold on. Wait up, wait up. I don'ting my second.

Yo, E, what kind of hard is that? Nah, you ain't even doing it right now. How did this story happen? Man, it was just, he was hot as fuck. I wanted a verse from him.

Had the money. We was in California. After the fire. Steve was fucking with him. You know what I'm saying? So probably Steve might have hooked it up. And then, man,

he just came up. I'll never forget. Gave it to him. He spit the verse and bounced it. I was able to. Steve was fucking with him. You know what I'm saying? So probably Steve might have hooked it up. Right. And then, man, he just came up. I'll never forget. Gave it to him. He spit the verse and bounced it. I was able to say too much to each other. He just got them 65 bands and kept moving. I just never used the verse on nothing. You know what I'm saying? Where's that verse at?

It's around. It's around? Matter of fact, it's on YouTube somewhere. Oh, okay. So you did use the verse. But nothing to put out to get sold in. Right. Why not?

I don't know. You're a foul Right. Why not? I don't know. You're a foul, Nick. I don't know. You got to start looking out for yourself. Let's make some noise to see if I'm starting looking out for myself. Now's verse, I don't care if it's from then to now, it's at least from 20 to 60 bands. It's always worth that.

65 bands, yo. Yeah, 65. So how hot was he at that time? Oh, he killed the verse. But, you know, but like to Boston niggas, you know what I mean? Let me ask y'all something. All that shit, your shit, all that project shit. Well, nah, let me ask y'all something.

Like, the thing about it, if a new artist came out, now I'm not talking about Ben. I mean, I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about then. Like, if a new, what is that noise? What is that? I keep hearing, what is somebody clicking something? The story.

All right, tell them niggas to shut the fuck up. Listen, so... You ain't got chips or nothing? Nah, nigga, what the fuck? This is drinking. We drink more. And then we go... We in Wynwood.

We go and eat in Coyo Bar or Wynwood Tavern or Wynwood Kitchen and Bar. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying? Like, snacks go with drinking. You can have a couple of fucking snacks. That's an average drink. You want some? It's a foul. You want some broke fries? It's an average drinker. You want some? This is foul. You want some pork rye?

This is foul, man. Come on, eat some pork rye. Eat some pork rye. Yo, all right. Let's get with the pork now. Listen. Yo, Zeno, you're my friend. We're close.

Right. I come to your crib one day. Right. You live in the Diplomat. Right. The craziest crib. I 100% said, give me your realtor's I 100% said give me your realtor's number give me your realtor's number I'm right in

that's the crib I had we're hanging out, we're barbecuing you're the first person to bring pork in my house ever I brought a big pork shoulder I didn't even know that existed pork shoulder with the land of orange and you baste it I thought he was playing He didn't even want me to get into the kitchen. He was like, the smell's going to fuck me up. I was like, how's that going to happen?

Right, right, right. All right, so, let's get to that. What happened that day? Like, that's what you're into, the pork shoulder. No, I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Like, it ain't nothing to matter. I'm sure we got some fellas in there that fuck with pork. But you be on and off. All right. You be on and off. I remember, like, four years in your blood,

you put him in control, bro. Four years. He was like, I ain't eating that pork no more. He wasn't eating beef neither. Pork is the food of the gods. Yeah, can't talk about it, man. Let me tell you about pork. Pick up the pork, man.

Let me tell you about pork. They listen to this show too. You can take every piece of pork and make that shit taste good, man. This is how you know. I know that Randy Acker and Dave Mays is the blackest Jewish people we know. Neither one of them celebrated Passover yesterday. Let's make some noise for that. It was the week before.

No, we went to. We went to. And I did. He was there. He was with his parents. Wait, wait. Didn't we go to the W? He put his yarmulke on the whole shit.

Let me tell you how powerful. He played me like this. Listen, listen. Let me tell you how powerful Jewish people is. We went to the W Hotel. Shout out to the Jewish people. Shout out to them. Make some noise for the Jewish people Maniacs are usually around us

You gotta keep a Jewish guy around That's a rule You gotta keep a Jewish guy around But let me just tell you how crazy it was We went to the W Hotel We filming the fool show Went to the W Hotel I can't front my neck was hurting

So we went to the W Hotel in Fort Lauderdale. I'm going to say, I can't front. My neck was hurting. So we went to the W Hotel in Fort Lauderdale. That's amazing. And we tried to use the bathroom. They rented it out for 10 days for Passover. So nobody else could rent it out. I've never seen no other race do that. Let's make some noise for the Jewish people for keeping it Jewish.

Shut down a bathroom. Shut down a fucking bathroom. No, no. They shut down a whole W Hotel. They all out. There was nothing but kosher food being served. There was no alcohol for those days. Correct? We was like, yo, is the bar open?

They was like, no, it's Passover. Is anybody in there Jewish other than Dave? Let's make some noise for Dave being the only Jewish guy. Come on. So Benzino and Dave, I'm going to start with you Dave Is there anything you regret Besides the internet because we got to that Is there anything you ever regret

That you could do over I can't have no regrets That's some real nigga shit Let's make some noise for Dave being black That's some black nigga shit right there You got any regrets Man I can't think of any. You know what I'm saying?

Probably, you know, of course, you want to be smart about it. You know what I'm saying? You don't got to be smart about it. We ain't even here. But still. Nobody listens to this podcast. But if you look back and you could say, yeah, you could. If you did not even, it's about yourself when you look at your kids and you look at their futures.

You know what I'm saying? Then you start having to be smart. I'm talking about music and music. Musically? Yeah, musically. Like, you know, in the business. Musically? Nah, you know, I mean, to be honest, I think I never got a real shot because of all the controversy

with my music. Like, people don't know that I produced the intro on Nas' Stillmatic album. Wait, time out. You know what I'm saying? Wait, wait, wait. Stillmatic. It's the train. Heart of a Lion, you know you still mad it's the train part of a lion

you know what I'm saying hold on hold on the Stacy Ladd is still joining with Deuce that's the hangman 3 you see that me 2 times JB like guys google that right now

google that man let's get as mad as props you're not going to eat no pork rinds on my show you're the first person to eat pork rinds you're putting pork shoulder to my crib I don't even know going to eat no pork rinds on my show? You're the first person to eat pork rinds. Hold up, hold up. You're putting pork shoulder to my crib.

I don't even know if those are your pork rinds. No, they ain't mine. I ain't none of it is mine. You just pull through shits like, those pork rinds are mine. I'm not getting anybody's power to eat them shits. This is a bar. This is a bar.

They offer those. Let me see if they have fish and pork rinds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just open it up. Yeah, yeah. Because it's a bar, you know, usually. Let me see if they have Christian Paul grounds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've done a lot of shit with Steve And Steve you know our relationships I'm allowing the love to be spread But all that Tannin of America shit Steve What happened with the Tannin of America You feeling that

I've never seen it There is no Tannin of America man There ain't no Tannin of America man I don't believe in that man You know what I'm saying What does that mean Tannin I'm sure Steve it means That the white agencies and the white

companies are now accepting certain black but that's bullshit because they really ain't. You know what I'm saying? Because they really ain't fucking with us. See, it's us that got the juice. It's the middlemen and the middlemen

above them who usually get credit for it. That's just how it is. So that's what tanning means. The tanning of America. Yeah, I didn't see that shit. I have no idea what we're talking about right now. It's a book he wrote in the TV. Big up to Steve Stout.

But look, he knows our relationship and I'm not dissing him. So this is a wonderful thing, man. But you don't agree with that. Don't agree with what? The Ten of No America. No, what was your song before that? Oh, The Ten of No America. There was something before that, though.

Steve Stout. No, it was like, oh, the song. The song. Oh, no, Stalematic. That's a fact. Right, right. So who called you to? We probably did it through Steve, but the issue is that we also produced the one with

you and Prodigy that went gold. Let's stay on filmatic right now. This is a classic album. How did this call happen? They asked you to do an intro? We gave him some beats. And L.E.S. High five.

Shout out to DJ L.E.S. L.E.S. is my man. So it was L.E.S. called? It was L.E.S. We gave L.E.S. the beats. You know what I'm saying? He let Nas hear them. That's the one they wanted. And Nas wasn't the guy at that time. So it wasn't Steve.

It was LES. My mistake. It was LES. That's not the reason you got five mics. No. Ooh. Nas should have got five mics. That album was, come on.

Wait. Stillmatic. Stillmatic. Oh, it's Stillmatic. I'm thinking of saying Illmatic. Stillmatic. Oh. You're still getting money there.

That was a double-plated joint good. God damn it. I thought you were talking about Illmatic. That's why I'm on fire. That was the classic. That was the classic. That's Stillmatic. I'm thinking Hellmatic.

You mad Illmatic out front? No, no. Are you crazy? Are you crazy? That's my first source article, magazine I ever bought. I could never be more proud of the beef from Queens at that very moment. Because I remember seeing Nas in Brooklyn Queens Day. Back in the days, we used to do something called Brooklyn Queens Day in Flushing Meadow Park.

And I was booked to perform. And he came out and did live at the barbecue, and he came out with this dude, we call him Fisherman's, and he killed it. You know what I mean? And then they was doing all this crazy shit. So for me to see that as a chap go to jail, see this same kid got five mics. I didn't know what the mic system meant because I was an Outkast fan. And Outkast was the only other people I seen prior to that, I believe,

because Southern Playalistic Cadillac, whatever that album is, came out before Illmatic, correct? Because I think that came out in 91. Do you want to Google that? No. I think that was in 99. No, Illmatic came first. Illmatic came first.

Well, whatever who got five mics. Maybe, well, whoever got five mics before that, then Nas got five mics. I was in the jail walking through. Yeah, nigga. Because at that time in the jail I was in, it was either Buckshot Shorty or Nas. Right. Obviously, I was on Nas' side. I did like Buckshot Shorty. Right.

And he wound up, his baby mother, Black Moon, excuse me. His baby mother was actually from Left Rack. So I wound up being cool with him. But in the jail at that time, it was like, you either Nas or Black Moon. And obviously I picked the Nas side and when that article came out, I just was walking through the jail. Jail,

nigga! And KRS, we had KRS on the show. And KRS said that He basically said Well if that didn't come out You know He said Queensbridge Which

He said Queensbridge Would have never revived But he didn't understand That what he meant was Queens might have not Never revived So that Queens is big though

Yeah but But There was a lot of shit That album Restored The so that Queens is big though yeah but but but that album restored the pride the pride

the I don't even know the other they restored like us to be like you know walk outside and go

go eat in Brooklyn and go eat and whatever but it all started from when people seen that he got five mics. Five mics.

And then you guys did a wonderful story of the producers. You remember that? All the producers that was involved. That was legendary. Journalism isn't conducted like that no more. It's not that serious no more.

It's not that serious. Because everything not that serious because everything's fast so what you think about that I mean you know the way I look at it I mean you know you had it's just a sign of the times you know right everything's fast I mean the good thing is that we lived in those times so I just appreciate that I know those times. Just because it ain't here no more don't mean you can't still celebrate it because you've been through it. Oh no, we're celebrating right now. That's what we're doing on Drink Chats Podcast. Come on, God damn it.

Yo, man, I'm going to just tell y'all, man. Hold on. This is the pork rind. Look at that. Come on, Zito. I just, I really need you to eat a pork rind on my show. Please. But how do you know this is Diego? How you eat it?

Right. David. Sonny DBT joined you? Go ahead, go ahead. I'm going to give you a five with the pork fat. With the pork hand. I'm going to give you a five with the pork hand. The hell?

If they ask you, you don't know. Right. Why? Because pork don't go stale? Because these motherfuckers is crunchy. Like, you know, they don't be over there, you know. It's good. It's good. They good. Give me a high five with the pork hand. Right. You give me pork don't go stale? Because these motherfuckers are crunchy. They don't give a shit. He's good. He's good. They're good. Give me a high five with the pork. You give me with the pork, Hannes.

I'm going to say that too. I don't mind. I don't mind. I don't mind. So, E, you got a question? I feel like you was going to go when we were talking about the Eminem situation. Like, I felt like you was going to say something. Like, you was going in the direction of saying that you didn't have no problem with him. There wasn't no problem with him. There wasn't

no problem with him because I really don't understand him. It was just, again, you know, MTV was just taking on the hip hop

and I felt like, you know, this is where hip hop can finally, you know what I'm saying, start getting some money. You understand, look,

when drugs and guns ravaged, and I say this, the community's hip hop was there to give niggas a job, yo. Like, niggas was making money off of hip-hop, man. That's what DMX said. DMX said, you know, rappers whack. Sometimes he support them because this rapper is giving at least six to eight people a job.

My nigga, my nigga, you come out of jail back then and get a job, yo. They ain't like that no more you know so it's just a fact that i just felt like they wanted to use a situation where the the white audience had its own image you know on to really be at a high level of hip-hop. What I was saying, the white people are already buying into the hoods in the black and Latino communities with hip-hop. They don't need... We never need... Like Beastie Boys was the shit.

Nobody gave a fuck if they was white, black, purple, blue or brown. Third base. Nays are like, you didn't see... You don't need to make a point of it. See, hip-hop made it where you didn't see no color. When Eminem came, he's a white rapper. You know what I'm saying? They did that.

I did the white rapper show. I regret it immediately. But you see, it has nothing to do with it. See, because the effects of that, I knew the effects of that of what it is now. There's kids twitting me now, like, who's 13, 12 years old, oh, 83-year-old fake Al Pacino, Eminem killed you. I'm like, little nigga, you don't even know Eminem's music.

Like, little man, you don't even know his music. You're just taking on what you see on YouTube and automatically gravitating to that black against white shit. A lot of times, the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.

Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters,

and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull, we'll take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us

about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams

and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Ranella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st. And episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. The issue was, I felt that they were using his situation to separate hip-hop. To like, you know what I'm saying? To separate hip-hop. Right. To, like, you know what I'm saying?

To separate hip-hop from the audience, you know, from white and black audience. I mean, and then, of course, you know, like. Jimmy Iovine offered you $500,000. Was that true? No, Jimmy, you know, when all this was going on, we had met with Jimmy a couple times. And, you know what I'm saying? Jimmy didn't want no problems. I had actually done deals with Jimmy.

And y'all was cool? We was cool, man. It was nothing but problems. So what was it? To not put out the tape that you had? What me was, again, I was just this rebel that was like, look. Because you got to remember, these kids had came up out of nowhere. These was his boys that came to the magazine with the tape.

They had been trying to sell the tape for almost a year. Oh, the guys from Detroit. Yeah, they had the tape. You know, I was in Puerto Rico and Dave called me. It was like, you know, these dudes are in the office. I got on the next flight and they had been trying to sell the tape for over a year now. These was his boys. Right.

And do you believe like the the story that he said? He said it was only happening because he had a black girlfriend. Look, man, it's not for me. They made that up. Yeah, I don't know. That was made up. You know what I'm saying? Wait, wait, wait.

Hold on. What was made up? That story. That he had a black girlfriend? Of course, yeah. So you did the research and you won? Absolutely. We did a lot of research when black girlfriend? Of course, yeah. So you did the research and you... Absolutely. We did a lot of research when we did the whole story, yeah.

And that was false. Absolutely. This is crazy. I don't think nobody never knew that. I mean, come on, man. But it's cool, right? It's cool, man. Him and him is a great guy.

I met him once. He's cool. See, but that's what I'm saying. It wasn't, you know, like, when you really get down to it, we never met each other to make it personal. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's not personal. So, I mean, of course, when you're going back and forth on a record, you're going to take shots at each other.

That's what everybody do. He was used to separate the culture and to, you know, take it, you know, with the white audience always was the largest audience of hip hop going back to the 80s. Run DMC. Never last. No, just hip hop. Just hip hop. You needed the white audience.

Okay. Get at me. 70, 80% of the buyers of those albums. Run DMC. The biggest of albums was white people. They was there the whole time. But Eminem was used as a way to take those

majority of white people and instead of making them the followers of the culture and the followers of the streets, now those people are used to basically control and dictate

the culture to where the streets don't have no say no more. That's pretty much what Eminem was used to do. And then at the same time when corporate radio comes in, now they can just cater to that. Alright. And then separate the audience.

But is there a problem with that? Of course there is because that takes money out of the hood. The same white people who are buying from the hood don't have to no more. But who is they when you say they are using him? Is it the same people that DJ Khaled

is talking about? They don't want you to win. They don't want you to water your plants. They don't want you to smoke weed. Is it that the same days? I don't want you to water your plants They don't want you to smoke weed Is it the same days? I don't know The people, the movers and shakers Of this industry right here

That control the vehicles The ones Who big money take little money Big bank take little bank Monopoly and everything else Whatever you thought about it However you think about it You know what I'm saying? Monopoly and everything else. Whatever you're going to think, whatever you thought about it, think about it. You know what I'm saying? White folks

always bought into hip-hop. I'm going to switch the subject a little bit because you're a pillar of hip-hop. Both of you guys, you're both legends. You guys are still talking. You're very disrespectful. You leaving? Alright. I got to be disrespectful to friends. I apologize to disperse for friends.

I apologize. But, there's been a controversy going on right now. Right? What's that? African Bambada.

Right? KRS-One is on our show. I want to defend KRS-One because I got some more pork rinds,

man. Get some more pork rinds, brother. So, I had KRS-One on the show. I asked KRS-One about the African Bambada thing.

KRS-One, I don't want to say he dodged the question. He just said, that's my man. And once he said, that's my man, I kind of got uncomfortable and I switched the subject. And plus, after that, before that, I was giving KRS mad Mai Tais to get him drunk, similar to how I'm doing with you right now. You're drinking Hennessy and drinking pork rinds. The first person on our show to eat pork. God damn it, make some noise for Zeno.

First person to bring pork shoulder to my crib and now the first person to eat pork on the Bring Chance podcast. What do you think about the African Bambada situation? Both of you guys. I don't even know the situation. Oh, okay. All right. What do you think about the African Bambada situation? Both of you guys. I don't even know the situation. Oh, okay. Alright. Neither do I. I don't. I don't. You don't? You don't? Oh.

You're bullshitting or what? I mean, I don't know the situation. You finish or you're done? I don't finish. You start or you begin it? Come on. Tell me the situation. Oh, man. If you ain't know it, then you know I'm not bringing up no situation. Come on, E. Help me out.

You got another one? You know I don't even want to. Not on that. Not on that situation. Let's turn it up. So the unsigned hype, the mic system, the source awards, the album, the joint with you on Mario Winans, all of that, you did love and hip-hop.

I mean, Rock the Party was... We had a couple of shows, Rock the Party. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think what was out when that was out? When this love and hip-hop thing was presented to you. It wasn't presented to me. It wasn't? Okay.

Tell me how this happened. It just... Stevie was staying with me. It wasn't presented to me. It wasn't? Okay, tell me how this happened. It just, I was giving, Stevie was staying with me. I was riding to the set. We were staying together, you know, in Atlanta. And riding to the set, just chilling. And then, you know, they asked me to basically, like, you know, because I was talking to him already. He had his mic on.

And I was just like, yo, you know, you should just try to be monogamous and shit. Okay, that means for one woman, right? Yeah, and they was like, well, you say that on camera. And I was like, yeah, I say it on camera. Right. They mic'd me up, and that was the first time I was on him. I did that driving scene with him. You know what I'm saying?

I was never casted for it. So what happened? Why are you not on Live on Hip Hop no more? What is that? I mean, it was a situation that happened, you know, at the reunion. Oh, okay. You know, where, you know, the last part was. You snuffed Jocelyn.

Fuck it. Let's just throw it out there. Come on. You snuffed Jocelyn. Come on. She came at you. She came at you. Is that what happened?

A little bit? Come on. She tried to snuff your wife. Listen, every man and every real nigga in the world will do the same thing. No, no, no. Of course. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to protect my ass no matter what.

Right, right. It's not like you're a woman, B. No, hell no. That's not like that. That's not what we're saying. No, no, no. But she's kind of, you know. I'm going to choke him.

I'm going to get Hillary. Hillary. Hillary. Right, right, right. Folks, so why didn't they? There's so many people who did so much worse things in Love & Hip Hop. Why, do you think you're being like, single or what? Nah, man, listen, listen.

Look, Love & Hip Hop was a great situation for me. Right. You know, like I said, it was something that I didn't know I was going to be a part of. You know, I did a bunch of seasons. A lot happened to me on there. I got shot, you know. Oh, yeah, God bless you, man. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean?

God bless you. Crazy, my mom's passed. God bless, God bless, oh yeah god bless you yeah yeah you know what i'm crazy my mom's past god bless god yeah yeah you know what i'm saying yeah so it's like a lot happened in those years just in my life so it was you know love and hip-hop was deep um you know love and hip-hop was you know shout out to love and hip-hop man i got it you know what i mean like you know what i mean? I met Ramona recently. We talking. Man, this is something. Shout out to Moskot. Shout out to Love No Fun. Stevie was just back in the studio. Yo, you and Stevie. Making some amazing music.

You know what the crazy thing is? You know how your boy call you and your boy say, you know, he's like, I always, I know y'all guys are brothers. I know it's different, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I know you guys got a lot of love for it's different but you know i'm saying like i i know you guys got a lot of love for each other you know i'm saying do you think it was love and hip-hop who separated y'all or you think yeah i mean you know what i mean you think it was the money no no no no no no never the money because me and sleeves it ain't like that with us

it was definitely a situation with with with the you, he was under pressure. It was his situation. I was under pressure. It was my situation. Things happen. You know, things happen. Things happen in relationships and family. And, you know what I'm saying? I don't think, you know, I don't know, man.

I just don't think, like, I don't think, you know, when you do reality TV, man, you can, like, really try to hold it against somebody. Because, man, people do things just for these things, for the cameras. And it's like, you know, you got to know that. You know, if the cameras wasn't there, it wouldn't even be like that. Right. There's no excuse for it. Right.

You know what I'm saying? So how did you guys work it out? It's just, man, it's going to take time, man. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't, you know what I mean? Time heals all. You know what I'm saying? I mean, both of us understood what happened and you know like where where we

stood with each other like we don't that was unfortunate what what took place there and it was unfortunate took place on camera and shit like i when you ask me if i regret things i regret that oh okay let's make some noise for that because another thing is like i didn't bring out the on love and hip-hop for none of that shit Uh-huh. Okay, let's make some noise for that. God damn it. God damn it. Yeah, because another thing is, like, I didn't bring out the on Love & Hip Hop for none of that shit, to be fighting and all that. Like, I'm not with none of that, to be honest.

I'm really not with that, because, you know, we fight enough off camera, we done fought our whole lives. Why we gonna go on camera? Exactly. You know what I'm saying? I know who you are.

You know what I'm saying? It just, it just, it was unfortunate, man. It was something that happened. You know, I... You guys had the 757 group, right?'t, you know what I'm saying? It just, it was unfortunate. It was something that happened. You know, I... You guys had the 757 group, right? Yeah, 757. Yeah, rest in peace Big Cap, too. Oh, God bless Big Cap, man.

Let's give him one more sign. Let's give him one more sign. Big Cap, we love you, my brother. Yeah, Cap had hosted the 757 tape that's on that piff. You go to that piff and download it. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Wow, so then he that's on Nat Piff. You go to Nat Piff and download it. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

So then he passed away and then you guys come back together. That was probably... This was crazy about it because we wasn't together. He was like, yo, let me just put the music out. And he said, yo, I ran to Stevie and he said, yeah, that's cool. And I was like, why did he say it's cool? I was like, well, come put it out. That's dope.

Mind you, me and Stevie almost didn't talk in two years, you know. And you guys were not only like the first people with the magazines that led the culture, not the first people to do in compilations that led the culture. I remember you guys were the first people to own studios. I remember you owned a studio in Manhattan. Was that called The Sauce? Lab? Yeah, I owned a big studio in Manhattan.

Man, we spent so much time. I remember you asked me to do a verse or something or come meet you, and I came there. You know, Dave had actually called me. I walked through. You guys had, like... It had to be, like, $5 million studio. Y'all walked in.

Y'all had blue carpet. I don't remember. We went to a lot of... I walked through. I was like, I had mad weed rolled up. I was like, yo, I'm going to go outside and smoke. You was like, go outside and smoke for what? Smoke and hair.

You guys had all type of endeavors, man. What's the next endeavor that you guys, Dave Mays and Benzino, is going to do? You really want to know? Yeah, I really want to know, man. Fat Joe named his album on our podcast. Give us something big. Come on, let's go, Zeno. Crab traps everywhere.

Right? We haven't talked about that. Benzino crab traps in every city and my sauce in every supermarket across the country. Paul, get ahead, let's do it. Let's make some noise for him. Sauce to sound bad. I don't know why. If we're not madmen, there's not one

woman in here, so when you say sauce, everybody... It's Benzino sauce. Oh, yeah. It still doesn't make it better. It doesn't make it better. in front of madmen it's not one of the women in here so when you say sauce everybody it's the Xeno sauce oh yeah it doesn't make it better it doesn't make it better so um how did you come up with like me

I mean for the layman that's what you say right layman layman for the layman like I knew like one time

Xeno came to the crib you know what I'm saying it was something going on with it oh that's the straight pineapple yeah alright hold on come on this ain't just straight pineapple. Yeah. All right. Hold on.

Come on. This ain't for straight pineapple drinks. There's no more. It's a rock. No, it's a rock. I'm going to hit this almond down there. Hold on. Let me finish my survive.

So it's good. I knew you had love for cooking, right? But most people got love for basketball. Doesn't mean they're going to play in the fucking NBA. What made you take this risk with this restaurant? I mean, it was like a low risk. You know, crabs is low risk. I was only going to do crabs.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, I mean, it was like a little small place. I had been day turned me on to the little Korean spot over there, Big Joy. It was in the same strip mall as Big Joy and Marietta. Right. It was already kind of built out as a restaurant. Marietta. Right. It was already kind of built out as a restaurant.

Right. Little small spot. Like 1,500, 1,600 square feet. So I said, man, it's perfect. Little crab spot. But the whole thing was I had to develop these sauces for it.

I just wasn't going to do like a crab, Old Bay seasoning. Right. You know what I'm saying? I wanted to do, I wanted to take it further. Right.

So it was like, I developed these sauces. The first was like I developed these sauces. The first was like the Xeno sauce. So I heard you went somewhere like L.A. and you've seen something. Yeah, L.A. It was like these Koreans. Like they do crabs differently. Okay.

Where like they incorporate sauces with it. So I said, well, if I put my own twist on the sauces, see what happens. It took me about four months to really, like what Nelson was saying. Did you think he was crazy when he went into the crab business? You guys are into compilations. You guys are into sauce awards. You guys are into

music. You guys are into, and now you want to sell food. I mean, he always wanted to do something like this. Oh, so this is not no new thing. He was always into food. I mean, I had something on Miami Beach. You know what I'm saying? Oh, I remember that, too.

Yeah, yeah. I remember that, too. I mean, he was certain about it. He knew it was going to be successful. I got spray painted in your club. You remember that? Yeah, you told me that. That's the first time.

No, no, I got pepper spray. Pepper spray. This is crazy. It's like when Rose just got hot. I walked in the club. This is, what's it called? Club Zenos. Yeah walked in the club. What was it called? Club Zenos. Yeah, Club Zenos.

You and Ja Rule was there. Ja Rule invites me. It's the most infamous club. I go in there. That shit was crazy. I go in there. I order six bottles of Rose. I remember it had to be at least $1,200 apiece.

But I'm like, these niggas is doing this for your birthday or Ja Rule's birthday. I don't remember. It was Ja's birthday. It was Ja's birthday. So I'm like, all right, cool. I'm going to ask them to make some bottles. They was Ja's birthday. The Ja birthday. So I'm like, alright, cool. I'm not asking for some bottles. They got us all in. We go to six bottles of rose.

Came out and then a fight broke out and they pepper sprayed the whole club. I sat there pepper sprayed. I was like, let's go. I said, they got this gay that nigga too much money, my nigga. I'm drinking my bottles. I was like, you know, I'm good. He was like, you good.

I still did. The whole club left. I was like, yo, Zeno, am I good? He was like, you good. I still did. The whole club left. I said, fuck. You know how crazy it is to buy bottles and sit down and everybody else leave

and you just really want to drink your shit? Fuck that. I don't even give a fuck. I'm staying right here. Give me one week to just bitch that hair. That was crazy.

I got pepper sprayed. The first time I got pepper sprayed was in a club. High five. That was a dope ass club. That was crazy. I got pepper sprayed. The first time I got pepper sprayed, it was a club high five. That was a dope ass club. That was a dope ass club. What is there now? It was American Apparel now. That was the second floor joint.

We was on the second floor. That's the first floor joint. We was on the second floor. So I just want to let y'all know, before we get up out of here, man, is there anything y'all want to get off y'all chest? If anything, y'all want to, you know, get to the bottom line, you know, because I know I've been messing with you, Zeno. I'm just messing with you. All these was jokes.

No, I mean, I just, you know, I'm just, I definitely, man, I definitely been down to come do this, you know what I'm saying? Nah, you my brother, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, man. You guys been in my corner forever. That's something I got to say. You guys have been in my corner before we even messed with each other.

But we wound up living in the same building. And it was a pure love. You know what I'm saying? It was a pure love. It wasn't nothing like no fake. Like, I need to get in y'all's shit. We're going to handle each other. It was a pure love. It wasn't nothing like no fake, like I need to get in y'all's shit. Like we're going to handle each other. We're going to, you know.

It was organic. Organic. That's what the reality show people were into. Use that word. It's organic. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? They use that shit.

But one thing, one thing I definitely need to know, because I don't know if y'all remember when we met that I wanted to do a documentary with y'all. Oh, yeah. I heard about this. I heard about this. And, you know, I'm glad we're finally here doing this, but this is all good fun. When is a real serious documentary

on the legacy of the source? Because that needs to happen. Now, can y'all do that or you would have to clear that? Do they own the name? It would have to be a joint clearance because they own the name now. So if there was to be like a thing, they would have to clear the name or else we'd have to call it the force.

Right, right. Or the creators of the source. But you don't want to do that. I mean, but I don't think Lawndale would have a problem with that. You know what I'm saying? Or how about you call it the history of the source? I think the culture needs that. As long as you use the source, Lawndale has to be involved.

Wow. Hopefully we'll be able to. But there's no problem with that. Lawndale, it makes sense to do it Big up Lawndale Our life story We ain't got no beef with nobody But at the end of the day

The history is what it is Everybody's going to have their opinions But the way I look at it It's over now People are going to put that shit behind And move forward Now should there be a Source Magazine story? Of course

Of course You know what I'm saying course Of course It should be Because I'm not trying to start any controversy Or things Do you ever just look at the Source now And be like damn I'm upset how they took it

And not in no mean way Only because of Every other magazine The Source really is the last Sales gone, vibes gone Nah, nah, nah. Only because of how every other magazine is gone. The sauce really is the last. Sales gone, vibes gone. I mean, everything's gone. Like, Russell Simmons is one of my icons.

He's one of my idols. Shout out to Russ. Didn't Kamara Lee make the sauce cover? Yeah, I think she did. I think she did. Like, that's not when y'all was on there. I think she did. I think she did.

She was one of the first ones after we had got, yeah. Yeah, after y'all left. I think she did. I think she did. That's not when y'all was on there. I think she did. I think she did. She was one of the first ones after we had got, yeah. Yeah, after y'all left. I think she did. Yeah, after we left. Yeah, I'm not saying why y'all. My bad, because Dave was like, what? We was doing iconic covers, like, with Mary sitting on the ice. Yeah.

Iconic joints. Like, Biggie over the building. I got all those old covers, by the way. Iconic. Dr. Dre. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. With the gun to the joint. Y'all was doing, y'all was doing. Red man with the shit all up in his Dr. Dre. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. With the gun to the jaw.

Yeah, I was doing it. Red man with the shit all up in his nose. You know what I'm saying? Iconic comics. So when you see them putting sports figures or people who are models on the cover, are you disappointed? Not a disrespectful way. We used to have a show of sports.

Yeah. Yeah, but I'm just saying the original stuff. When you look at it now, you walk through an airport. I'm telling you, man. I don't look at it now You walk through an airport I'm telling you, man It's a different time I don't look at no magazines Honestly, Hip Hop Weekly fits The format of today

But any other magazine Like that, it's just a different time now Everything is internet and phone You know what I'm saying? Everything seems to be internet and phone Hip Hop Weekly works because of the format of how us weeklies, you know, of like us weeklies and everything. But, you know, I just don't look at it like that no more. I mean, even if it was, I just don't, it's not in a time where it could shine anyways.

Right. The source, you know what I mean? It just don't. So, I know I kind of asked you this in a different way. So, what's the new move, man? Are you going to stick with reality? Are you going to continue with the magazine?

Or are you guys going to do some phenomenal thing to change the culture again? You're about to celebrate 30 years there. We need another move. I'm saying Hip Hop Weekly TV. Hip Hop Weekly TV. Hip Hop Weekly TV. Definitely, me and Althea is about to do our own show.

On WeTV? It's the first time you heard about that. I can't say we didn't work. But I can tell you that. I'm going to make some noise for WeTV. No, no, but I can tell you that. I'll calm down. No, no, but we still can make noise for WeTV.

Make some noise for WeTV. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? We still can. But we spread it in the room. We spread it in the room. Zeno got his own shit on WeTV. I'm still working. It doesn't matter if it's false. We spread it in the room. Zeno got his own shit on WE tv. I'm still working. It doesn't matter if it's false.

We spread it. I'm still working. I'm still working with Carlos King. You know, Next 15 Season 2 on TV 1. You know what I'm saying? Season 1 is a success. Season 2,

yeah, Season 1 is a success. And you know, we're just crab trap, man. And you know what I'm saying? Did you ever think you'd be doing reality from back then?

Nah, hell no. Hell no. If you would've doing reality from back then? Nah, hell no. Hell no. If you still had the sauce being on top, you'd probably be like, reality is... Nah, because reality TV is all what you make it. See, it's...

If you make yourself a fool, you won't be a fool. You're going to be looked on as a fool. You know what I'm saying? But at the end of the day, as long as you are who you are and if you don't mind who you are and comfortable with who you are,

then you can do reality TV. Well, let's make some noise for Zeno being political correct. Dave Mays, Dave Mays, you've been the brains

behind the operation forever. Nah, I wouldn't say that. You like me? No, I wouldn't say that. No,

what I mean by that is like, come on, Zeno, Zeno, come on. This is for alcohol, man. This nigga's poured out all the chaser. He's a foul guy. He's my brother. He brought his pork shoulder to my house.

So, I don't want to say if you could do something over because that's kind of corny. But, um, so, um, I don't want to say if you could do something over because that's kind of corny. But, um, what do you think this next big endeavor that you want to do yourself? Now, I mean, what I mean, like, not what I was, you know, I mean, just the next big idea for you. What you think is the next? Because you was the guy who invested in the Internet. And then people didn't believe you. It didn't work at that time.

But guess what? The Internet is working now. So that makes you Nostradamus. What is your next idea? Again, I think it's still that there's not a voice for the culture that's out there. And the culture is powerful because, you know, you have what they call the millennials, which is the largest... Yeah, the millennials. That's the people who make it happen, right?

Well, that's the demographic that all corporations are going to be targeting for the next 20 or 30 years. And there's 95 million of them. There was 78 million baby boomers. You heard of the baby boomers? No, I've never heard of the baby boomers. Okay.

They were the biggest, largest, previous generation in American history. Okay, because of the baby boomers. You heard of the baby boomers? No, I've never heard of the baby boomers. They were the biggest, largest, previous generation in American history. Okay, because of the baby boomers. Yes. And the millennials. Anyway, so hip-hop, that's really where... To be a voice for them. Absolutely.

I think me and DJ Irvin has filled that voice for the millennials. Not on y'all level. We can never... The thing about it is a lot of people they big up our podcast because these 90 stories and there's 90

babies that listen to it, but I can honestly say that I can never make the impact that the source has ever made. I can never make a system. I've tried this drinking competition that we just had do. We try to do that with all guests. It's not like the five mics.

You can get there. I'm trying to get there. Thank you, Dave. He's a positive guy, man. High five, Dave. He's my friend, man. Let's just make some noise for the original song. Let's make some noise for Zeno drinking all the Tracer

So now we gotta drink straight So man guys I can't thank you enough man I know you guys didn't have to do that I know you guys didn't have to fly in from LA I know you guys didn't have to stop From whatever you guys are doing I really appreciate it because people That are listeners

They love these 90 stories These 80 stories These 2000 stories These 2010 stories 80s stories, these 2000 stories, these 2010 stories. Hip-hop stories. These hip-hop stories. And that's what we cater to. We're not trying to get the guy who's hot. We're not trying to get the guy who's on his press run.

We're not trying to get the guy who just happened to be around. We're trying to get legends who have real stories. And you guys came. You participated. You never stopped us one second. Zeno sweated for a minute. He jumped off the camera for a minute. But that, he didn't stop. He came

in. It's been a good sport. And that's what this is all about. This is not about... This is about us getting together, getting drunk, and telling stories. And you guys did what you had to do. And I can't thank you enough. And we got through it. Yeah, you got through it. Is there anything else any of you want to say?

I would like that. Man, it was a pleasure. Ple there anything else any of you want to say? I would like that. Man, it was a pleasure. Pleasure here? And it's got to be a part two. And it's got to be a part two. Yes, yes, yes. But also, let me thank you for... Zeno, you're the first guy who's on my food show.

And on the podcast. That's big. You know what I'm saying? Gunplay was too. I thought about it. Yeah, yeah, Gunplay the podcast. That's big. You know what I'm saying? Gunplay was too. I thought about it. Yeah, yeah. Gunplay was. Gunplay was too.

You know what I'm saying? But you're doing it live. Big up to Gunplay. But I can't thank you guys enough, man, for letting me into your life. You know, I do it with Bleak. We play around with the stories. And you guys are a great sport, man. And what you guys contributed to hip hop

Could never be replicated Just in case you guys didn't know The things that y'all gave to hip hop The things that you gave to me personally Is personally appreciated I'm glad that I could later on in life Call you guys my friends Because you gave me love before you even knew me

And I'm glad that after we guys We knew each other We continued our relationship And I appreciate you that after we guys renew each other, we continue our relationship. And I appreciate you guys being a part of this podcast, my brother. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate it, man. The original sauce, the goose. Listen, let's just focus in on me for

a second. This is a dude that made something that people call a hip hop bible. I don't care what you do in hip hop. I don't give a fuck what you try to replicate. I don't give a fuck what you try to replicate i don't give a fuck what you try to make there's nothing that people are going to call it the hip hop bible my motherfucker and listen this is what i think this is what i think in a hundred years the original source magazines will be read like a hip-hop bible that's what i think god bless you

motherfuckers good night god saving those motherfuckers. Good night. God bless you, motherfuckers. We got us some touchy shit, and they stood here. They took the heat. It's going down. Drink Champs podcast.

Make some money! All right, let's go over there. Let's go over there. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production, hosts and executive producers, NORE and DJ EFN. Listen to Drink Champs on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs,

hosted by yours truly, DJ EFN and NORE. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials. That's at Drink Champs across all platforms. At TheRealNoriega on IG. At Noriega on Twitter. Mine is at Who's Crazy on IG. At DJ EFN on Twitter. And most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by going to drinkchamps.com.

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