Drinking Wine and Talking Shit - S2E1 Women in Business & a banging DOC pinot

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

Welcome to season 2 of our podcast! This week, we're diving into a crucial and often complex topic: Women in Business. Join us as we explore the unique challenges, celebrate the incredible wins, and share the valuable lessons we've learned navigating the world of entrepreneurship, leadership, and marketing as women.Before we get started, grab a glass and join us for "The Wine and The Why"! Today, we're sipping on the "DOC" stands for "Denominazione di Origine Controllata, available from your local co-op. We'll tell you why we chose this particular bottle and what we're thinking as we delve into today's discussion.In this episode, you'll hear:•(1min20) The wine and the why: •(3min59) Our Stories: How We Got Here: We'll each share our personal journeys into business, leadership, and marketing, highlighting major turning points, career shifts, and the struggles we've faced as women in our respective fields. Expect honest reflections and the key lessons we've picked up along the way.•(5min47) Who we are and career changes: We'll tackle some of the common challenges women encounter in the workplace, including: oConfidence & Imposter Syndrome: That feeling of needing to constantly prove yourself.oWork-Life Balance: The ongoing juggle of career and personal life.oNegotiation & Pay Gaps: Strategies for asking for what you're worth (keep an eye out for our cheat sheet!).oNetworking & Visibility: Building those crucial connections and your personal brand. We'll share relatable personal anecdotes to bring these realities to life.•(44min20) Lessons & Advice for Other Women: We'll be sharing what we wish we knew earlier in our careers and offering practical advice for women looking to start a business or climb the leadership ladder. Expect actionable takeaways and a template to help you create your own action plan to put your ideas into motion!•(51min) Wrap-Up & Final Thoughts: We'll recap the key insights from our conversation and offer words of encouragement for all the incredible women out there in business or just starting their journey.If you're in business or thinking of taking the leap, this episode is for you! We hope to provide valuable insights, a sense of community, and maybe even a bit of fun along the way.We'd also love to hear from you! Share your experiences of being a woman in work and business – have you had to negotiate pay, deal with tough colleagues or bosses, or overcome significant struggles? Let us know in the comments below or reach out via email or social media!Coming up next time: In Episode 13, we'll be talking about How To Change Your Career! From side hustles to completely new career paths, we'll share our experiences and practical tips to help you make that leap.Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on our next episode!#WomenInBusiness #FemaleEntrepreneurs #Leadership #Marketing #CareerAdvice #Podcast #NewEpisode #Inspiration #Motivation #BusinessTips #WorkLifeBalance #Negotiation #Networking #PersonalBrandingFind us on Instagram and Tiktok @DWTS_Shit. And you can follow @only_aamy & sadie.cubitt on Instagram too. Let's laugh with wine together!

Hi everyone! Welcome back to Drinking Wine and Talking Shit. Series 2 is among us. Yes, and we're going to be a bit of a shake up and a change up. We are kind of re-tweaking, reinventing and reinvigorating what Drinking Wine and Talking Shit is all about. Definitely. We are today going to talk about one of our new topics and one that is very dear to our hearts I suppose because we're really trying to now lean into what we do love to talk about and what we know about and what we can share with you, really. So today's topic is women in business. So we just wanted to welcome you and introduce this topic and it's all about the challenges,

the wins and what we've learned. Yes, definitely. I think it'd be a good topic for us to touch on. And I think as we've said, and Sadie's probably said before, that we haven't really talked about us as well and our careers and our lives and things like that and I think you know it's a very big part of who we are and we wanted to really like to try and talk about it a little bit more and in a bit more detail and share with you the things that we know as well.

Definitely so before we do all of that though I'm just going to talk a little bit about our wine for today because although we are really shaking things off, we still are introducing our wines. Now you'll be happy to know that soon we'll be doing a few wine tastings with a wine connoisseur that we have recently met and we're really excited to share all of those with you. Yes, that's amazing. So the wine we have today, and please excuse my pronunciation here, it's the Del Venesi Denominazione di Origine Controllata, I believe. Well done for saying that. But for short, they do call it the DOC, so brilliant. It is a Pinot Grigio, and it is actually one of Italian's most popular wines with 85% of Italy's Pinot Grigio production being a DOC and that at 43% of a globally global output.

Oh yes and the DOC represents a significant collaboration among different regions I would name them I want to say Veneto, Fruilli Venezia, Giulia and the Autonomous Provence of Trento which is 27,000 hectares of vineyards. Very interesting. If you do want to try this wine with some food pairings it's very versatile it goes very well with you know vegetable dishes, light pasta meals which obviously a lot of Italian wines would because you know a lot of Italian meals are pasta related and very Mediterranean aren't they? Honestly the reason that you might notice something else that's different as well is we've not actually done a little bit of a food pairing with this one and I think although

we're going to continue to recommend food we are within the new series going to be going to different restaurants and trying different dishes with the different wines and we're going to recommend those to you as well so keep an eye out for things like that we'll be on the road a little bit which I think will be a lot of fun and we'll be inviting friends to join us for the wine tastings as well that we're hosting at home so you can hopefully join us learn a little bit more about the wines as well. And then also kind of see a little bit behind the scenes and what we've been getting up to in the meantime as well.

And obviously as well, one of our topics is going to be all about how to have it all. And unfortunately, having it all, which includes children, a business, a social life, did not include cooking every Thursday as an extra dish for the wine and the wine on top of my ordinary family meal. I don't know about you Katie but yes it gets a little bit tricky sometimes in the week and I'm sure that's the case for a lot of people. Okay so going back to our topic then Amy, why is women in business an important topic to you? I think it's important to me because originally I was a woman in education and I really felt like being a teacher wasn't my calling, it wasn't what I was meant to be doing. I wanted a job that was really fulfilling in terms of like how it kind of it hits my sense of um um competitiveness no yeah competitiveness sorry and the yes and entrepreneurship but also

the role i'm in now it just allows me to be kind of myself in more ways than one and i'm quite an aggressive person at the time i'm quite um enthusiastic and yes competitive and i think it really does that for me but also since since being within my marketing world, within my marketing career, I've learned so many things that I didn't know before that made me even more glad to be a woman in business and to be learning from such amazing women in business as well. And so many people around me. So it just sometimes I kind of can't believe that that's where I've got to now, especially from where I started and when I left and having to change my career and also just, yes, us wanting to do this podcast, us learning all the time about different things that I have that ability to do

that within my role as well at the moment and I'm just very grateful for it. So yes, I hope that kind of answers your question in a nutshell really and I'm sure we'll delve deeper into more into that but yeah very very lucky to kind of be there. Fabulous. Okay so obviously as we go throughout this episode we're going to be sharing some personal stories some challenges and some practical advice. We also have a great handy action plan for you if you want to go away and maybe change things up a little bit in your life

or career. So let's start then with some stories. So Amy, I would like you to tell me all about your journey into your marketing role from obviously starting off as a teacher which you absolutely hated to get in into marketing and how you changed that, how you took that leap to change your career because people find that very difficult to do. I will say for me at the time like it was a hard decision because I wasn't necessarily living at home and I was obviously 27 by the time I decided that I didn't want to be a teacher anymore. One thing that went into my mind was, well if I don't do it now I'm going

to wait and I'm going to regret not doing it when I'm 30, 35 or whatever. So I did quit my job and luckily I was able to actually moved in with Sadie anyway and you know kind of started afresh but I had to take a huge pay cut, I had to go back and do another qualification and learn more about not just marketing but business itself and doing that was quite difficult because you've only got a certain amount of time, you've still got to what you still need money, you've still got to try and bring in that money and I think going out there and having to kind of get, I suppose, I mean we're talking quite a few years ago now before like the rise of I suppose

more technology and the way that people run businesses online today, I had to go and get work experience in a marketing environment. 27. And you feel embarrassed, don't you? Of course, yeah. But I tried to do as much as I could and I worked for the people and I took on projects that were like freelance projects. I did a marketing diploma and then I got a position on 18,000 pounds a year as a marketing

assistant. And that, I I suppose is where my journey began. I was only in that role for one year before I left and I took a job as a marketing exec in another firm and that was an accountancy firm and I was in their marketing department and then after that I was very very lucky to then move into my role that I'm in now so I moved from there after a couple of years and moved to the software company that I'm now at. And since then, my career progression

has increased tenfold. I have moved up quite a lot of times within that role. It's a great place to be. If you can prove that you're able, they will give you the opportunity to do anything you want. But not only that, it's given me so much knowledge about business and about entrepreneurship and about growing a brand or about how to make money

on a demand generation level, you know, not just sit there and be like, oh, I'll put out this campaign and it looks nice. You're talking data analysis, you know, trends and competitive research and analysis and looking at things that have worked one year and repeating the same things the next year or changing them and working with people who are very smart and to the point where I suppose you still have that slight imposter syndrome at times. But I suppose the more that I succeed and the better I do, the more that goes away.

And now to the point where I'm now managing people myself within that short space of time, it's just great to kind of be in that situation really. And I think every day is a learning curve. Every day I learn something new. And every day there's something at work that probably helps me with things like our side gigs as well.

So it's just my kind of journey was difficult but at the same time I think it's gone so fast and I've worked so hard that actually I feel like in a short space time I've actually gotten very, very far compared to what I actually probably thought I was going to a short space time I actually got on very, very far compared to what I actually probably thought I was going to at that time. Yeah, you have to take that leap, don't you, and think, okay, I want to do this. I'm going to go and do it.

And like you've just said, you had to do extra qualifications. You had to get some marketing experience. When you were 27 years old asking for work experience and you feel a little bit, oh gosh. And I think now young people know how to use social media so well they just be like oh freelancer and they can just freelance and things like that and wing it and wing it and not just I don't think it's just learn on the way yeah learn on the way and that's fine you can yeah don't be afraid to do that yeah absolutely I think that there's some amazing young entrepreneurs out there who have done fantastic and I'm very very

impressed with them I don't even think now like like, again, I was doing the podcast, you know, that some people are just so tech savvy and they know how to kind of get things to work in a way that that's why when we hire young people at work, it's great because they know more than us about technology and about how we can, you know, maybe about the algorithms and things like that. I don't know. But yeah, I've just it's been a big, been a long journey and I still feel like I've got a long way to go in terms of where I want to get to in my career. But I've never been happier actually in a job at the moment and in my role and I just, yeah, I love it.

And yes, it was a big leap of faith. You're glad you took that job. I'm glad I did it. And I don't think you'll ever be in a situation where you don't, if you've got a qualification now that you're a teacher or you're qualified in something else and you take that leap of faith, if anything goes, you kind of can a qualification now that you're a teacher or you're qualified in something else and you take that leap of faith, if anything those you kind of can fall back on that to an extent but I think at the same time I was in that person as well I couldn't just not work I couldn't just take the leap of

faith and not so I had to get a job and for any kind really to then be able to also do the thing on the side so that's also quite difficult for people and I think people don't realize, I think people do realize sorry how hard that could be and I think that a lot stops people from doing that, especially the older that you get. Of course and you've got children and you know people put things off because they've got children and things like that and I completely understand that. You can't expect someone to say oh I'm going to quit my job to pursue this dream when I've got two children to

be, whatever. So you know if you have any examples of why you can't take that leap or what you would like to do or be, but you feel like you can't, please write us in. We will try and help you to manage that if we can or give you some tips on how to do certain things or when to do certain things. Because again, I've got two children and I run my own business and I'm working all the time. Obviously not on the afternoons where we record. But this is still a very big project and something that is taking a lot of time. And I like this project. You know, it is a nice project to have on the side.

But when you're trying to not only do the work and then also I'm also the marketing person. I'm also the marketing person I'm also the one doing the invoices and and making sure that the taxes are in the accounts and you know ready for when you do your next tax return that is hard to do all of those things and then you know and have two children so if you feel like that's something that you can't do then please write us in we might be able to give you some hints and tips and like I say we've got this nice action plan and even if not just

hints and tips even advice or you know just just to have a I suppose and I like to know that there's people in the same boat. Of course yeah it's so much better when you understand when you see that there's other people you know in that same boat as you. Now obviously you've just explained a little bit about your career and how you took that change. I was also a teacher and I technically still am classed as a teacher if you like but I'm still in education. I couldn't quite get out of there could I? You are good at it. I am good at it. So luckily now I'm at a different place where my business is based on how much I can sell to other

education providers and that works for me. I quite like that. I still get to teach but I'm teaching at a leadership level, a level seven level whereas before, you know, my career was mostly maths and I love maths and I would teach A-level maths tomorrow and I love maths and I would teach A-level maths tomorrow, but I was getting very bored of teaching the same GCSE, the same functional skills, the same higher GCSE, that was it. Because that's mainly where people need you

if you're a maths teacher. So it was nice to them what I did was, and again, you could do the same thing if you're in education, freelance is a huge thing in education. And I think people forget that they don't have to be working for one company on 37,000 a year, but they could be working for two or three companies, probably doubling that, if not more, if you're careful and if you create

the right resources and if you sell them to the right people. But that's very basically what I do and I really enjoy that now especially because I enjoy the business side of things. So let's go back Amy you mentioned that you felt imposter syndrome. Tell us what that is and why you felt it and do you still feel it now? Sometimes I do, yeah of course. I would say I've got a very good boss. I've got a fantastic boss and she's always so supportive and I think, I always say I've had some amazing bosses especially in my marketing career but my current boss is probably the best boss that I've ever had in terms of we're very similar in terms of people, the types of people

that we are, we're very fast paced, we're very excitable. If we've got an idea we want to kind of do it straight away whereas other people aren't quite like that. Also she's just so supportive so if I if I ever think to myself oh that could have been better or this could have been done in a different way she's always good to be able to say I mean you did amazing you've done fantastic and obviously she can give me great feedback as well when I probably could have done better fine but she never makes me feel like I've like I'm not I don't deserve to be the role I'm in and I think sometimes you need someone to remind you of that because I think you do like even like she says to me all the time

anybody knows it all nobody knows everything they might sound like they do they're just talking the talk you just need to have the confidence to just be like well I do know what I'm doing. Yeah, so if you ignore that thought in my head, I do know, and I'm gonna get on this call or this meeting, and I'm gonna have this call, and I'm gonna seem confident, and people are gonna take me seriously, and I've had to grow into that as well.

That's took me a while actually to get, because now I actually do, I can sometimes sit back and go, actually, I'm not an imposter, I do know what I'm doing, I'm really good at my job, and I wouldn't have got to where I am if I wasn't and it's just so hard sometimes to think that way. Yeah and I remember when I first started working with one of the companies I was working for just started teaching on the level 7 leadership and management and she was asking me all about my experience and why why am I allowed to teach on this program what have I done

and obviously I've led teams and I've had to employ my, well not employ but take on my own freelance staff that I managed and things like that. But I felt like, I felt like, oh maybe I don't know enough. Anyway, it rolled around about seven months later and one of the other women who worked there, she left. And me and this other guy had to take on all of her learners, which isn't tons of teaching, it's mostly, you know, you're marking reports and projects and assignments. So it's all, you know, it's master's degree basically. Anyway, when we got her work, her learners through, we couldn't believe the low standard. And we were worried that we were getting it wrong thinking we don't actually know yet.

We haven't sent any learners through their end point assessment. We don't know if we're doing this right. This is the first time that I've taught on it, the first time these companies ran this course. And literally we were like, well, we're obviously do a fantastic job so we didn't you know we thought we're getting it all wrong and we thought I felt like I'm gonna I felt like I can't do this maybe I'm not you know with my head here thank God I stayed because now I'm earning three times what I was earning before and actually my work's flipping outstanding. I think you and me as well Sadie are fast paced, we're really fast paced people and I think we like to have the autonomy in our own jobs because we know that we are we can be in charge of our own

timetable doing what we want to do when we do it but at the same time obviously we're also very hard working and we want to oversee the jobs that we need to and at times work late and do those extra hours and and things like that and I think I just love that part about my job now is I can be that fast paced person in that role. Yeah. And not, yeah. Yeah, and you know what? The worst thing that annoys me is when your computer's slow.

And I just want to get it done and I want to get it done fast. Stop slowing me down by taking forever to learn. Obviously, not my computer, but if I've got computers for different clients, which I have, then you, oh, it's so frustrating when you can't get a job done quickly when you're a quick-paced person and I think as well like that comes into if you do have clients and things if you can work fast and you've got lots of things going on then that's own ideal kind of

situation for you because you can earn more money in less time if you can do something at twice the pace of somebody else and I'm still to a good standard or at least do you draft and then come back to it. Do you know what I mean? So going back to imposter syndrome one of the things I wanted to mention about that was yes it's about confidence but it's also about knowing that yes I've taken on this and I'm not sure if I can do it but that's okay because before it needs to be done I'm going to be the best person I can at this. So keep learning keep you know even if you have to stay up for a couple of hours at night and you you watch a YouTube video on something

that you didn't know how to do before or you're not sure on this particular exam on what it entails or you're not sure on this particular marketing strategy or you're not sure how to edit this type of video or keep learning and keep trying invest in your education as well. But, don't be afraid to ask questions at work and with people around you. Like, there are times I thought, oh I don't want to ask that, someone will think I'm stupid or I don't know how to do my job. They haven't. They've said, oh no, especially for him, especially my boss, but like other people as well. Like, they don't even notice that you've asked your question. They're not even like, you should know that. They're not like, you know, you know. And most people won't be, and if they are, then will so.

Also, at the end of the day, two years later, you'll probably be better than them at their job. Because I did that. I started at my place now, and most people who I started with have either left, moved roles, but a few people as well who I have seen as better than me at my role when I first started, or even a year in, have either moved away

or got changed roles, left the company, whatever, and sometimes that surprised me because I've thought, and now people come to me with things and I can't leave it. And also, if you've just started in a role, don't leave it too long to ask these questions either. So like, sometimes I'm bad for this, I'll wait and think, I'll figure it out, and then you don't figure it out, and then you've got to ask and you're like, oh, I think I'll figure it out and then you don't figure it out and then you've got to ask and you're like oh I think I do I think someone has told me how to do this but can you just show me again this or I don't quite understand what you mean by this and then when they're kind of talking just play it off like oh yeah yeah but carry on carry on just in case I've missed anything do you

know what I mean there are little techniques you can use that will make you feel and also less paranoid or less worried about asking a question. The best thing I ever heard, sorry, I was going to say this one. Someone said to me once, I can't remember who it was, but it was somebody at work, and they said, I met this guy and we were all in a meeting and someone asked a question and he just sat back and he went, let me just think how I want to answer that. And then answered it like a bit, like, at a minute and answered it. You were allowed to do that as well. I think sometimes you get put on the spot and you're like, I need to answer now. then answered it a bit like Adam in it and you were allowed to do that as well.

Yeah. Now I think sometimes you get put on the spot and you're like I need to answer now. You don't actually and it takes a really good character to go let me just think about how I want to answer that. I mean I'm not saying if it's a question that's like oh how long have we got until this event you should know but obviously yeah but like you know if and how are we planning to um to showcase and analyze the data on how well this event did for us and you want multiple different ways of doing that then yes you can say that and have a look into having and and I thought yeah that's really good thing saying you don't you don't have to just sit there

and pause you can say just let me have a think about how I want to answer that or or you know you can say that a different way but it was just a really good piece of advice or a good piece of way that a good way so that somebody kind of handled a situation. Yeah don't feel silly or not even silly but have that confidence to say hmm that's a good question one second let me just think and it's okay to have some silence also sometimes you'll find that if you have silence somebody will answer it for you. You know what I mean? And you'll be like, once they do answer it you'll say yes and what I was going to say was but really you've probably just taken from what they've said and

you're gonna add to it. You've got to remember something you forgot. Which that could be very difficult to do until you're really calm and confident. It's very difficult to be confident when really inside you're thinking, oh shit, you know, I literally don't know, but it's okay. It's fine. You will learn something every day when you're trying to put yourself in situations and one of the things I was going to say was it's okay to feel like you're literally treading water or you're just staying above water. That's probably a very good place to be because you'll learn more, you'll do more

and you'll be more. Yeah, always have the fit. Always have it. We always have the fit. So feel good sometimes, but it forces you to do the things that you know, to keep working hard up. Yeah. And sometimes you'll be busy and you you left something to write at the last minute but because you've left it right till the last minute you probably get it done in two hours instead of four. Yeah well that's what we're like anyway.

So the next thing I would like to ask you about then Amy is navigating business or career whilst managing your personal life. So you have a partner, you have an avid social life and you have a, well you have one or soon-to-be stepson. So how do you manage your work and your business? I will say, and it's very difficult, I don't, I'm not gonna say I succeeded this every week because I don't, because I don't. I do have a timetable and it's a very detailed one that I also don't stick to every week, like I'm not gonna lie, but it does keep me on the straight and narrow sometimes as much as possible because what I'll do is I'll look at it and go oh yeah I've got to do that

because sometimes I forget there's so much going on and like I have certain days of the week where I've allocated my time where I can see my friends or spend the time with my partner because although we live together he works nights, I work long hours, he works long hours and then obviously when I'm not working I'm either doing the podcast, I'm doing kickboxing or MMA, going to the gym, walking the dogs, obviously only sort the dog out, obviously then at the weekends we do have Theo and you know seeing family and things like that so it is a very very busy schedule and in between the time obviously video editing and and things like that. So it is a very, very busy schedule. And in between the time, obviously, video editing and doing things like that, I've got to work

that around those evenings. So I do have a timetable, that is how I kind of manage it. And then other times, like Sunday's are rest days, you know, I spend that day with my partner and usually Monday afternoons as well, Monday evenings, with my partner so that we can fit that time in but we have to be really strict with it and we have a shared diary as well on our Google calendar so he can see what I've got planned in and I can see what he's got planned in, mainly so he can see what I've got planned in. I was going to say, he literally just works and comes home. Yeah but if we've got a social event that he's coming to it will be in there so he'll

know that that's what we're doing that weekend. He'll see that we've got Theo overnight or he'll see we've got Theo for the afternoon or he'll see that we're taking him somewhere for two days in a half, whatever. I would say there are ways I do it, but if I'm honest, I think for me it's more than the... Being flexible as well. It's being flexible, yeah, yeah, and the need of the one. And sometimes I have to cancel on people. Sometimes I forget things because I have made plans to see someone for coffee

and I've got an appointment the same day and I've literally forgot. So I do have to really check my calendar because it's so busy. I think it's just being organized. And even then, you're not always gonna perfect it. But what I would say is in my head, when I'm successful, when I'm a successful at the height

of my success where I wanna be, then I'll spend that time relaxing and having fun. Who said to us the other day, you're not very organised are you? Someone said, I think we're the dad? Or someone and we both went, oh we're very organised thank you, because we are. We're so organised. I think I'm really organised and even if I do have to change things, it's not because I don't know about it, it's because something else has then come up. It happened, yeah. Probably like, for example, a client meeting's come up

at such and such a time, for example, today. So we were like, okay, we'll work around that. We'll do this, so then we can do the client meeting first. And then, do you know what I mean? You have to be flexible. It's not necessarily because I miss things, I don't. Or sometimes I put things in my calendar and I know who it is I'm gonna do it with,

and I think they'll probably flake. So then I might see if I might put something else in there do you know what I mean so and also Kaizel has his classes now so I'll work around that very well and school and also on a Friday and I have my my business slash personal development coach who holds me accountable for everything and I love that she asked me it's my highlight of my week on a Friday morning and I love to say how well I've done that week so this week wasn't great but you know new week new start and I'm planning to hopefully I won't be a 10 because there's one area of my life I can't get right

but we're getting there she thinks I'm doing amazing but as she says that I am the epitome of manifestation. So manifestation obviously people just think it's you just think it and it'll happen. It's not. Manifestation is you think it and then you do all the things in your power to get to it because that's what means doing and she says and you've done it. So like okay for example in January I wanted to move house I was fed up of our house we're renting a house at the minute and we're sorry we were renting a house and I just wanted to get out of it and move to somewhere a bit nicer a bit more warmer and smaller it was too big a house it needed too much work doing and within two weeks I found a house and

moved into it. We're very much good things done, getting it done sort of people. And I think Chris, my partner says the same about me, like I feel like we've manifested things in our lives, we've worked really hard to get them but and then even now like we've only been doing the podcast for a few months properly but we're really really properly done. You wait and see guys because this is gonna get only gonna get better and we're only gonna make it better and it's going to be you know, I mean it just takes a lot of time. I think Developing yeah, and also You know, there's certain things like friends

I'm willing to invest certain amount of money into this podcast or into anything certain time about time money dedication. Yeah so I think for us this podcast being a project that I know that I really want to succeed and Sadie really wants to succeed, we will keep doing it until it's successful. And whether or not that means we've got lots of other things that we need to save or pay for that month, then you know, or there's a lot of things in our lives that we're doing at the moment, you know, not everything can be just literally shoved onto something until you feel like you're kind of getting there. And I think as well, you've got like the time element where you put time and education and stuff into it, but then there's the resource and you start adding that as well. And that's what

we're getting to do with not just this, but our lives and, you know, hopefully pass that information and that, you know, those, I don't know, like learning curves onto you guys as well, even with the punk cast and building a side gig is concerned. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And the other thing I was just going to say was if you, we've kind of gone into a bit of a tailspin in terms of the work-life balance area, but if you did want some more ideas on how to manage work-life balance, we've got loads of those. So write us in and we'll send you some information on how to better manage your work-life balance and your career, your family life, your social life and your me time because I schedule in my self care and I love it. So if you like I can send you an example of

one of my time to be honest. Manic. Okay so I would also like to know Amy a little bit more about how first of all have you ever had to negotiate for pay or notice the pay gap specifically in your role? Yeah, I mean I think, I know we're probably gonna go into each of these particular topics probably in a bit more detail on a singular episode so this is a bit more of an overview but yeah I'd say yes I've had to kind of negotiate it and have those conversations. Again, probably not so much in the past, but more so recently, I suppose.

It's quite hard for me to give my honest opinion on it because I think, well not honest opinion, but my experiences were like, at the time in my role, in the company I'm in now, there was a particular time about a year ago where we had a director leave. So the division was kind of, we're very target driven, so we have to make a certain amount of money each month to hit our target and that will then rely on kind of how we're paid. So we have our salary and then obviously anything extra. And the form of bonuses and things like that comes from hitting your target. And you don't get your bonus unless you're hitting your target. So we were kind of having a really tough time

we were on the right to head left and we had new directors come in and I've been working so hard and even my boss does say like that first year when we were working together we did really well and she says that she's really grateful for my help with all of that and she was the one who gave me my promotion really and made sure the last few. She made sure you got the pay you deserved. Made sure I got the pay I deserved. Right. Although I spoke to her about it, I didn't have to negotiate because she did it for me

with the above people because she was like, she deserves this, she's doing really hard. That's nice. Etc, etc. So for me, where it's actually been a concern to the point where I felt like I was in a position where I could negotiate pay and I should be, I didn't need to because my boss had my back completely. But that's an ideal situation to be in, isn't it? However, that's not always the case and I will always say to be firm about that, like with friends and things like that when they've probably been in this position where they're

doing more than they should be and they're not being recognised for it. I would say leave the company or find somewhere that will honour you for that. Well ask first. Obviously ask first. Ask first, say look I'm doing all of this can I would like pay increase to this because I know I'm not getting paid the same as such and such or whatever. Just be very clear it doesn't have to even be face to face if you want to send a letter you can send a letter. They know the laws they're not stupid and they should be paying you what your worth. There's the, there's the law and it depends. I'm just saying if you're younger then shall we say and you're maybe not being paid the same as a co-worker for the same job or you're doing more, let's go with another person I

know working at a doctor's surgery and she does far more in terms of management but isn't being paid for it. And she was very good actually, she did mention it, she has asked, I don't know the outcome yet. But she said she found it quite easy because she knew the people she was working with quite closely because it's quite a small team. When you're working for a bigger organization,

that can be quite daunting. Yeah, and I think the advice here is how you go about saying that's a request to meet with your boss. Because some time with them, oh, I've got time for a 10-minute chat, whatever. And they even send it all in an email first and then say, do you have time to discuss this? That way they already know what you're going to say and what you want and then just let them talk. And if they don't give you what you want, then you can go and find that elsewhere. Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, say

if you did want to just go straight through a face-to-face with them you know you are you are allowed to discuss it you can be professional about it you don't have to be angry or be aggressive in a say you know you can be calm and just say look I felt I worked for and with you for quite a long time now showcasing consistent ability to do my job to a high standard making money whatever it is you know for your company. I think women find it harder to ask than men. I think men find it quite easy to say, I'm good at this, I'm good at that, you should pay me this. Whereas women, they do find it difficult to be put in that situation. That's why I say, you know, send the email first

and then say, do you have time for a meeting? You've already said it, you haven't got to say it again. Take the email with you on a piece of paper if you want to print it out, because then you've got it in front of you, you know what you've said previously and you've got nothing to do but say exactly what you've just said in that email again and wait to hear what they've got to say. It's a much easier way around it if you're worried about confrontation. Yeah absolutely. But one other thing I wanted to mention was when I've had to worry about pay, so there was a male colleague getting paid more I say colleague with both freelancers getting paid more per hour

than me and I was annoyed now I like this guy it wasn't his fault he didn't know what I was on and I didn't know what he was on so I asked him I said why are you getting paid per hour by the way and he told me now he charges his private clients 75 pounds an hour so when we were both discussing this particular client, which is significantly less, let's be honest, okay, and when you get when you're charging £75 an hour, are you charging £75 an hour for teaching? You'll probably not do that much of that in a day, and then a lot of that time is spent marking and getting assignments done, maybe checking briefs, maybe whatever you're doing for that company. So it's a very good hourly rate. Very good. Okay, so this

company was paying significantly less, yet still paying him over one pound, I think it was one pound fifty more per hour. Now I know that's only one pound fifty, but why is he getting paid one pound fifty more per hour than me? And when it adds up, he'll come out with significantly, over month a significant significantly more and so he was like oh we'll have a word with such and such about it i didn't i just got my invoice and i sent it off and they paid it maybe nobody asked me anything nobody rang me i sent it in 10 minutes later i've got money in my account i was like fabulous i'll be doing that next month so if they're all those bills you know but that's difficult for freelance invoicing so it's very difficult

and they can't argue though no no because they're already paying somebody, you know, but that's difficult for freelance invoicing. So it's very difficult. And they can't argue though. No, no, no. Because they're already paying somebody else that. So what are they going to say? Yeah. So yes. But yeah, I've got a few more questions to ask you. Let's just have a short break.

We'll be right there. OK, so my next question for you today, then, Amy, is all about networking and visibility. How do you build connections and create a personal brand through networking and why is that important to you? I think it's gotten more important to me over that year and a half, two years, because I think again within my current role and where I work now, they actually encourage your personal brand, they encourage you, especially the sales teams because they're selling to people all the time

and they're on LinkedIn and they've got this, their face of themselves on LinkedIn and we all have. And to share who you are and what you're good at, allows people to see that and then they may come to you for something and reach out. Like the amount of times probably I've had emails and messages asking me if I'd like to purchase demand generation tools or purchase leads from different companies, from people who may already want certain types of software that we sell and the amount of people who contacted me about different job offers you know this in this day and age social media does give you that ability to kind of build your own personal brand and LinkedIn is a great place to do that and I used to have our company

LinkedIn banner and I've recently changed it to my own personal one and we're allowed to do that we have the autonomy to do that and because I want people to see me is the person I am and my own right and what I'm good at not from another brand's perspective. So your personal brand in terms of who you are and I don't just mean the pictures you've got and the colour you've got on your banner and things like that but also like who you are as a person, what you have to offer the industry or what it is exactly that you know, whatever industry you're in, you know, what do you have to offer the world and why and how to get that across in the right way. And I think I'm quite careful about what I share on LinkedIn, but I do think sometimes

I do share personal things, things that are especially related to my growth and progression as a person and as a professional. So I did my mini MBA with Mark Ritson, thank you Mark. Great course, I'd recommend everyone to go and have a look at it. But he does three different courses and one's on brand and it's more business and professional brand but obviously it's a really really good course as well. Or management and then you can just do the marketing one which I did. And I shared that on LinkedIn, I was able to join the LinkedIn alumni so I was able to get to know the people on my course as well. Not only that, I've been to different events and I've met different people. I actually saw Mark Whits was just kind of, I think, going to things like that as well. You also get to meet new people

and kind of be in a space where more people who are kind of like-minded people like you are there. Well, why is that important though? And I think that's important because it lets you, well, it allows you to meet people like I've said, who are similar to you, have the same kind of interests, but you can learn from them as well. And not only that, in future, there may be people that you meet there that you

can reconnect with and work with. And I've been to plenty of events I suppose like showcase events slightly different when you go to networking events where you actually go into certain places to meet different people in your arena. So me and Zayden would like to go to some podcast events or you know I like to go to events where they talk more about software. It depends on what my interests are and but those things gets your name out there people get to know who you are you get to know different people are that builds your personal brand as well from that perspective you use LinkedIn is another tool to kind of I suppose promote you and promote the things you're doing so that then people can see you and find

you and go you know that person was good at this I'm going to work with them and even to the point where word of mouth oh I met this lovely person here and etc etc so we went to an event not long ago and we played a game at this event so it's a showcase event we wanted to showcase our software and we played a game and on the store the game was basically kind of a push the button sort of game and we were kind of promoting our software and how fast it was and if you could push the button in a certain time frame you would have a bottle of wine. So everybody came. What was the wine? Whispering Angel. Which I hear from the wine fan who's our little partnership with the wine fan who actually says you know it's a nice, it's a good wine but

actually and the lowest of their it's the yeah of their selection of the brand yeah whispering angels collection of just one of them of a whole collection but either way we'll find out but um but yeah everyone just loved it so the point was this is necessary personal brum related but people who came to that store before we put our own post on our LinkedIn about the event, someone else had put a post on, a LinkedIn post on, excuse me, I put a LinkedIn post on and tagged us and it was just these two young girls, young accountants who'd come to our stand and really liked it, really liked

the game and they posted and they tagged us in it. And that is just one little thing that got everyone really interested and really excited. And it was really, really good. And, you know, so not only that element of it, but that got us to meet new people as well whilst we were there. But it also built our brand as a company. So I think events are really important,

if anything, for brand awareness and for personal brand awareness as well. And I think, again, at a later stage, when we go probably do an episode that's more aligned to probably just this one topic, we can share some how-to's on personal branding growth. On building your brand and you know, yeah. You would say then in terms of networking and building your brand, one that helps you to connect with like-minded people in your kind of arena, but then

also gives you job opportunities later on if you kind of want to change company or move up. You know, if you've got a connection with someone and you've known them personally, that's always a very good way of, you know, making sure that there's maybe in for an interview or things like that. Absolutely. The same is like with our podcast, again, going back to it,

like we've joined like online communities and we're gonna go to certain events. And, you know, those things going to grow hopefully for us but also we'd like guests on our podcast we'd like to be guests on other people's podcast so things like that and from my perspective yes and there are lots of other ways but what kind of things do you think Zane as well? So well less personal brand like obviously I've got LinkedIn and things and my business is, you know, I'm the director of Cube Education or whatever. But at the same time, if I was to say to you, okay, you've just started a business and you want new clients, depending

on what kind of business you're running, I detest social media for personally for my brand. I'm in education. Social media is not going to get me what I need. I'm not tutoring one-to-one learners that I can find on Facebook Marketplace. I am working with larger organizations to sell courses to deliver their leadership and management qualifications and the best way that I've found and you can do this for any business whatsoever. Yeah, I think this is a great piece of advice. I think people forget that you can do this so I always I sent out probably about 300 emails in October November last year and I gained three new clients I know that sounds like a lot of emails for three new clients but these you know

they're three new high paying clients and And all I did was go into Companies House and find their email addresses and sent out emails. So if you've got some time and you're trying to, you know, I don't know what you're trying to sell or who you're trying to sell it to. I don't know if your business is business to business or business to customer. Obviously business to customer might be a little harder.

You won't be able to find their details on Companies House, but, you know, start with a subscribers list, but if you're business to business, you can find loads of email addresses on Companies House that you can then email and, you know, prospect to, I guess. And so obviously, in November, that would have been me saying, I deliver this qualification, I deliver that qualification,

I'd love to work with you as a freelancer, da da da. But now, in this time around, I'm going to do the same thing again. And I'm saying, I've developed this online course, would you be willing to buy this from me for this qualification? Because I know that not many organisations may have this particular bunch of resources that they need in order to deliver it. And this particular course is a massive earner for education providers. So that's the next kind of step and I'll let you know how it goes. But honestly, the best type of business I've ever got is from emailing directly. Okay, so we are...

Sorry, I just want to say, really good idea by the way. And I think for, again, for me, for example, say if I wanted to, I don't I don't do this, but if I wanted to do freelance marketing, for example, I would go to kind of LinkedIn social media, things like that. But again, I would be emailing the the particular people in that business who've got the purchasing power to buy the product I want to sell, basically. Or you could possibly find small companies because on Companies House you can find all the details.

Ten to twenty employees or five employees. Yeah find all the details, 10 to 20 employees, or five employees, or zero to three employees. Do you want my marketing services? I can do this, this, this, this, and this, and I'm telling you now, it's very quick and easy to find the email addresses, create a spreadsheet, and send out one email and BCC in all of those companies in one email.

Although to be fair, I did find it better when I emailed them separately than BCCing them all in. I don't think they were all delivered. So when I emailed them directly it was much easier to get a response actually. Just a little bit of a nugget of advice there. Okay so we are coming to a close today however and I would like to give you a bit of further advice so first of all we're going to now give advice to other people or other women or men or young people even who would like to get into business or to do something different what advice or what do you wish you

would have known earlier I'm gonna answer this one first. Okay. And then you can answer it. I wish, and to be fair, I didn't do this actually, so I'm glad I didn't do it, should I say. First of all, I wish I knew earlier on how easy it was to become a freelancer in education. I would have done it far sooner than working in a school

or a college where I detested teaching 30 to 40 young people GCSE maths because it was very stressful. Can I just quickly say on that, I started watching a film yesterday and I'm gonna finish it but it's got Simon Pegg in it, it's called Absolutely Anything. Now I've seen it before but he's a teacher but basically he gets the power randomly because aliens decide they're going to blow up earth because earth is just terrible and people are rubbish and they just can't do anything and what's the point? They're just a non-native human race.

But another alien goes hang on a minute there's rules. We need to give them the opportunity to prove themselves to us. We'll give one random person ultimate power and we can do whatever we want but if it uses it for evil we'll blow them up. What's evil? Okay for bad things like to do for personal personal gain is the difference. I think they said evil but I think they mean personal gain. So anyway I thought to myself the first thing I would do is like you know I would I would say I'd become a vigilante that's what I would do. But anyway he's a teacher and he's got a horrible class and the first thing Beniddon doesn't realise he's got power is he's fine and goes,

what would you do if you couldn't do absolutely anything? He goes, I'd send an alien to Earth to destroy the entire Class 10C. And it happens, it comes on the news, he's like, oh my God. And anyway, he obviously reverses that. And then goes to school the next day and goes to go into the classroom and he looks through the window and they're all there like, ahhhhhh. He's like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, oh great! And I was like, just so you know, the previous version of them all running around. A lot of the time that was what it was like to walk into a classroom and you couldn't

get them to just listen to one second, you just shout constantly. Well, if you didn't talk about the subject that they wanted, that they were in there for, they would listen to you about anything. I'll give you life advice on this. Or I could tell you about all these things that I've done in my life.

They loved to listen to you live. They did, yeah. I didn't ever dislike the students. Yeah, no. They just didn't wanna do the task at hand. They're teenagers, they don't wanna do anything. You know, they wanna rebel. Class sizes are too big for a start.

Class sizes are too big. They all get joining with each other when they're all having a good time. And I don't blame them. It looks like fun. But you're stressing me out. That's life, mate. You good time and I don't blame them it looks like fun but you're stressing me out. That's life mate, you've got to do what you don't want to do sometimes. But it's the school system and there's a lot of things that that is the school system which was that but anyway my point was if I'd have known about freelance before I would have done it earlier

if I'd have known about getting my assessors award and being able to do an IQA award and becoming an EPA definitely would have done that sooner but you learn those things as you go throughout education don't you, not everyone will know what I'm even talking about. You know your assessors award is so that you can assess on different qualifications such as the level 7 senior leadership but luckily for me I'd already done my masters in leadership and management so I could do that but it depends where you're at and where you want to go and what you need to do and if you don't know write into

us and we'll try and figure it out for you but what I do want to tell you is to not listen to anyone who tells you to just get a job and settle down. If you don't get a job, if you are an entrepreneur, if by heart you feel like there is more to lie, usually is okay so don't listen to that because if I had listened to that I'd still be with my ex-boyfriend teaching maths at a college that I hate and I'd be depressed. You'd be bored. I'd be bored I'd be depressed and I wouldn't be where I am now. So things have to change. And also we're still we're still getting there as well there's still things we want to

achieve there's still things there's still steps we need to take. We're not perfect. Not everyone's gonna get there like that. And it is hard. So just keep going. And I think, like, just remind yourselves of that. It is hard and we'll take some sacrifices. If you want it, you can get there.

And manifestation and then work on your arse off to get it. And there's so many other options out there isn't there that we really even realise. You know, ask chat GPT, that'll help you loads with understanding what it is that you might like or not like. It will tell you all the options. But you know, as well another thing that I would suggest and another thing that I've done is to try everything and then you'll know what you don't like. I know that's hard as an older woman or an older man. When we were younger I think but now we're almost 36. We can't just go, oh I'm going

to do this now. Especially Sadie can't because she's got two children now. But you can try it on the side and see if you don't like it. Exactly. Spare time. Yeah and it is hard to find spare time. But again, wait till the kids are in bed, have a couple of hours at night trying to kind of grow something that you wanna do, or work with someone to do it, or find someone who wants to do the same thing as you,

get a friend who wants to do it, you know, build something. It's like the gym, find a buddy. Yeah, well, I like to give myself some time. No, but I'm not saying it's like the gym, I'm not saying you do that. But you don't wanna go, it's easy to say, but you don't wanna let someone else. So do it with someone, like Amy keeps me going with the podcast when I'm tired and I've had the kids and

you know she's like come on we've got to do it, we've got to get it done today. So she keeps me motivated. You might want to find somebody like that, you might find it's better to work on your own. Most of the time I do like to work by myself. But you know. It's easy for us again, we're twins, we get it, we can fall out and make friends within a second so when things get stressful it's not that bad and it's a bit more difficult when it's with someone

else. But at the same time, you know, like I say, right into us we can always help and give advice and it's nice to try and help others. And for me, I wish I knew what I didn't know, I wish I knew now what I'd been through. What do you wish you knew earlier? In life that I can be anything I want. That is the main thing. Because wish I'd be showing you now what I did before. Yeah, no, what do you wish in you earlier? In life, that I can be anything I want. Yes. That is the main thing. Because if I'd have thought that when I was younger,

I wouldn't have gone into teaching. I'd have thought long and hard about what I wanted to do. And do you know what, I wanted to be a lawyer so badly. And I think back then, I could have done that. And I did, and someone at school told me, I think I was in year eight, no, no, year ten. And he said, you're not smart enough to be a lawyer. And from that minute, I stopped thinking I could. I think I was in year eight, no, no, year 10. And he said, you're not smart enough to be a lawyer.

And from that minute, I stopped thinking I could. I wanted to be a marine biologist and I could have completely done that. The reason I didn't do it is because I know I had to travel a lot and at the time, because of the situation I was in with my ex-boyfriend, I felt like I couldn't and I felt like I'd be too scared to miss home.

Oh, that's so annoying. Not so much that he would have said no, he wouldn't have done that, but I felt like I would have missed home too much. I felt like he wouldn't have liked it because I remember thinking I wanted to go somewhere when I was at uni and the response I got was a little bit, wasn't supportive. And you were stupid and felt guilty. Yeah, I felt guilty. And also I'll just like I'm this home to you but then later on when I did some traveling I found that I didn't miss home at all and then it all changed from there so

yeah and another point that Amy's mentioned and she's probably forgot but if you're trying to improve things in your career and in your in your job rather than necessarily in business but getting with the right people make people aware that you want to move up put yourself in the career and in your job rather than necessarily in business but get in with the right people, make people aware that you want to move up, put yourself in the spotlight and go out of your way to make people notice you and know that that's what you want to do. Yeah absolutely. Okay so we have made an action plan which is going to help you to get motivated, we've written you a template so you can go away and put your ideas into action after listening

to this episode. So we really hope you find that useful. It's more of a kind of reflective tool to use right now, but it also has some action steps for you to take going forward, and we will be offering out way more how-to guides and plans for you to use. Full tools going forward to help you with what it is that you're trying to achieve in your life.

And also, don't forget, we've got a wine and food review coming up as well, so if you fancy trying something new and tasty, then keep an eye out for future, uh, future, uh, kind of moments and episodes. So, uh, if you are in business or in, in a, you know, a field of work that you really, really enjoy, we hope that this can be your place to be to learn new things and have a bit of fun with us. So hopefully this episode has given you some key ideas to go away with and use our action steps which will help you put these into action. So don't be afraid to go out and get exactly what you want. Put yourself in the spotlight in your work or your

industry so others know what you want to achieve and where you want to be. We would also love to hear your experiences about being in work and business and how you might have had to negotiate pay, deal with colleagues and bosses and how you have struggled but persevered. So please text in. Please do and don't forget to like, subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts. That's right and one more thing in our next episode we are going to be discussing how to change your career.

We'll be telling you about how we did it obviously we've talked about that in detail today but we're going to give you some actionable steps and how you can do it too. It will be from side gigs to a whole new career plan. We have got you covered. All right, so thank you so much for joining us for drinking wine and talking shit and we cannot wait to see you in our next episode. See you next time. Thank you.