Drinking Wine and Talking Shit - S2E2: Signal Post Chardonnay & Career Shifts: Real Stories & How-To Advice

Episode Date: April 19, 2025

Welcome to the podcast! Pour yourself a glass of something lovely, perhaps a crisp Signal Post Chardonnay from South East Africa, as we dive into a topic many of us ponder: How to Change Your Career.Feeling stuck in your current job? Dreaming of something more fulfilling but terrified to take the leap? You're not alone! In this episode, we share our own personal career change stories – the moments we knew it was time for something different, the fears we faced, and the practical steps we took to navigate the transition.We'll also explore the common reasons why people seek career changes, debunk some myths, and tackle the biggest challenges that arise, offering actionable tips to overcome them. From fear of the unknown and financial insecurity to imposter syndrome and lack of direct experience, we've got you covered.Here's what you'll learn:Our personal career change journeys and the biggest lessons we learned.Common reasons for wanting (or needing) a career change.How to deal with the fear of the unknown, financial insecurity, and imposter syndrome.Practical strategies for gaining experience in a new field and handling rejection.Actionable steps to take when changing careers, including self-assessment, upskilling, networking, and building your personal brand.Tips for cultivating the right mindset and confidence to embrace change.Whether you're just starting to consider a career shift or are actively making moves, this episode is packed with relatable experiences, insightful advice, and encouragement to help you create a career you truly love.Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss our next episode! We'd also love to hear about your career change experiences – share them in the comments below or reach out via our social media/email! Cheers to new beginnings! 🥂Find us on Instagram and Tiktok @DWTS_Shit. And you can follow @only_aamy & sadie.cubitt on Instagram too. Let's laugh with wine together!

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Drinking Wine and Talking Shit. I'm very excited to go in today, Sadie. Yes, so excited. What we're talking about today. So this week I thought it would be great if we hit on a topic, or we thought it would be great if we hit on a topic, called how to change your career and a signal post chardonnay. So whilst we're sipping on the signal post chardonnay we're going to be talking you through how we changed our careers and hopefully in a lot more detail than that and how you can change yours and we'll give you some actual steps to take away. So let's get straight into it. I think Sadie this week is going

to be asking me a few more questions and she's also going to be introducing the wine a little bit better in a bit more detail so go for it. Okay so yeah so today we're talking about how to change your career, our stories and practical advice. So obviously we all know that career change can be very scary but it's also a really exciting opportunity. So we're really excited to share a lot of different stories with you as to what we've done and we've tried to do lots of changes or add-ons or side gigs or whatever you might want to call them. But you know we want to share those journeys with you and we would like to hear yours too and we'd like to give you some practical steps for making the transition.

First though and the most important part of the episode is the wine and the wine. The wine and the wine. So what wine have we chosen this week Sadie and why did you choose it? So today we've gone for a signal post Chardonnay from southeastern Australia. It is said to be like sunshine in a glass. I'll let you know in a moment. Think citrus, nectareine and tropical kicks all wrapped up with a crisp clean finish. Oh okay so it's medium bodied and it goes really well with seafood, chicken, veggie pasta, you know the usual that a nice white wine would go with. Now it is a Chardonnay so Amy let's give it a try and see what you think. All right so here we go. Cheers.

I actually really like that. You can tell it's a Chardonnay but not as bad as, when I say not as bad, like I'm not a huge fan of a Chardonnay because that's a really odd aftertaste at times I find, but actually I don't feel like that has as much. Like I feel like I've had Chardonnays where they're probably, but maybe they didn't end up in that expensive, I don't know, or you know, I know that's not super expensive, but like I've just always felt that very, very strong aftertaste and that is actually really really nice and I can imagine myself sitting in the sun having a glass and it's a nice bargain price of seven pound fifty. Lovely. Yeah go and give it a try. What is your worst wine that you've ever tried? A red wine. There's not a particular type you've never been somewhere I thought that is horrible.

I don't know if this is because I was excessively hung over at the time but I went for a meal once. It was with my old employee and we'd gone out the night before and got extremely drunk and then we had to go to this lovely meal the next day which was just meant to be a nice meal for everyone and they had loads of wine on the table and I thought I'll just have another drink because it'll make me feel better anyway could not keep it down me it was a Chardonnay can't tell you what type of Chardonnay it was I can tell you it was expensive but it was it made me feel so ill and although I was really really hungover I just didn't like the taste I could just did not like the taste like it and I would drink anything and there's a wine I'll drink any wine

except for red and even then I'd give it a good go. You know what I mean? But it was really, it was so strong. Also, not that this happens to us very often but you know when you find a bottle of wine that's been in your cupboard for like a good couple of weeks. That never happens to me. Yeah it never happens but it has happened to us in the past. To be fair I have a full bottle of champagne at the moment. That's different. Yeah. You've like half drank it. Yeah you've half drank it, and then left it. Yeah, yeah. Half drank it and left it. Yeah, put the top back on. We've left it for like two weeks because you've cracked the

seal, it's been opened. I wouldn't know. It's had some oxygen to it. I'll have like for a second. Again, it would not last me more than three days. And I've had it for a second before I've left it open and then had the bit the next day. The next day. Again, three days in is even a push.

I mean, if I don't have a bottle of wine, it'll get drunk that day. There is bottles, I've actually been, just to sign it guys, I've actually been trying not to drink because obviously we drink on the podcast and we go out a lot, we enjoy. So I've actually tried to make a lot more of my occasions

drink free, which has been great. But because of that I have literally got downstairs a bottle of DiSwado, a bottle of whiskey and about five bottles of champagne and two bottles of wine in the cupboard from a meal or engagement party and we had them as gifts and I've not drank them. So hats off to me for not drinking the bottles of wine in my cupboard. They are unopened though and the other day I thought to myself, should I have one? And I thought about it but I had to take off the thing and I had to get a cork out and I was like I'll leave it. Yeah um well actually semi semi semi tried and broke it and then gave up. It's a sign not to have a drink. It's like them reels where those uh women say oh with leftover wine you can make ice cubes, and people are like, what's leftover wine? Who has leftover wine, leftover wine?

I don't know. I mean, look, there's leftover bottle of Glenn Vittgen, I'll say leftover, saving for a special occasion. Okay, so let's get onto our topic for today then. So first of all, let's discuss a little bit about, and I know we touched on this last week, so we don't really want to repeat ourselves too much but talk about our career change stories so Amy you go first again you did talk about this last week but explain

where you started and where you are now and how you went from but what's most important here is how you changed it how did you change your career because you have done this very well and Yeah I think we did go onto it a bit last week but I will kind of do a bit more of a deep dive I suppose. It was really difficult I'd say if it was me now I would let's just say if it was now and I wanted to change my career I feel like it'd be more difficult because I'm older but then at the same time you've got all these other outlets so you can create you can start a business you can you know but again, they cost money and take time and

dedicate and dedication But for me it was one deciding on what I was gonna change my career to because I still didn't know and and I'm bad This in mind guys. I think when you're younger and You you don't have hindsight You pick something because you're like, oh I need I need to find a job I need to find a job, I need to pick a job. And I think there's some people who are like really set in their what they wanna be.

And I was, and I know I said this on the last episode, somebody at school said to me, you're not smart enough to do that. And it completely knocked me back. It didn't take me a long time to get my confidence back. That was a subconscious thing. I don't think I knew myself how much that had affected me until I look back now,

because I instantly obviously thought I couldn't do it. But I didn't have a conscious mindset to go why have I why do I think I can't do this? Why don't I speak to my mom who would have told me I can do this? I never spoke to anybody about it. I never spoke to you about this happening to me. I never spoke to my mom about this person saying this to me at school. When you told me the other day I was like oh my, and that really changed your trajectory of life. And although I think, like I look back now and be like, oh I could have been anything. Why did I let that one thing that that person said affect me? And I don't know why.

And I think it was subconscious. I don't think I outrightly thought, right well I won't be a lawyer then. I think subconsciously it affected me. So I just stopped. I just didn't know then what to do and what I wanted to do. And I always was so confident as a child and so outgoing and abrupt and abrasive and say what I thought. And as I got past my twenties, I didn't become not that person anymore.

I'm still not. I will say what I think now, but I was much more like you are now back then. Whereas I wasn't like that back then at all. At all, yeah, yeah. Whereas now you're like, so I want, whereas before I used to say what I wanted, and now I'm like, oh, maybe things in life

are put up, maybe take a step back and be like, oh, I care what you say. But why? That's a shame, isn't it? It's a shame. Just really actually saying what you think, especially when it comes to your own self and who you are and yourself as Steve

and what people are saying about you. That's the best thing ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just saying what you think. I love it. Because if people think you care too much, it rots out your mouth. Absolutely. And I was literally talking to my partner about you that's the best thing ever yeah yeah yeah I love it because people think you care too much drops out your mouth absolutely and I was literally talking to my partner about you because I can't remember what he said but I went and I said you don't care yeah like I went to just say what she wants she went to take a shit I was like she does not care I was like she will say sometimes in front of my

friends she'll say things even I wouldn't say anything like you'd say anything you'd be like well stupid anything if she If she thinks something's silly or someone's telling a lie or something she'll call them out instantly. I don't always, I have to hold my tongue sometimes Amy. But I will be like hmm it's probably not true but I'll just leave it because I just don't care. I don't do that all the time. But I love, I love, it's a compliment like I love that you do that because sometimes someone will say something to me and I'll be like in my mind I'm like hmm all right. Bullshit. I know you're bullshit. But I'll just leave it because it doesn't matter. But I think at times when it does matter again, I could be better. Like with certain friends or certain people or anybody really, I could be like a bit more

firm because I am a good person. I'm a very good friend. I believe that I really care and I make the effort and I feel like sometimes I think people are just different aren't they? And like some things are missed or people don't realise you've done something that, you know, and I think I'm not the kind of person who will outrightly say something straight away. I'll give it time. And then I'll be like, well, actually, this, this, this and this. Yeah, you will do it. You will do it.

Of course I would. I'll never not defend myself. Yeah. But sometimes you're waiting to see how their behaviour is developing. Developing. Yeah. Yeah. And why? why is that? But that aside I think like I say with

this career path with me wanting to be a lawyer and this student saying to me you're not smart enough subconsciously that had an effect and I don't want that to be the case for other people and it was a shame. So I became a teacher. Fantastic. And again I did not become a teacher because I thought oh I'd love to be a teacher. I became a teacher because I thought, oh, I'd love to be a teacher. I became a teacher because I thought, oh, what am I gonna do? If I'm honest, I did not know what I was going to bloody do. And as I became a teacher

and as I was working through my teaching life, I thought to myself, I want to be in a corporate environment where I can dress like a boss and I can be someone's boss and I can make loads of money and I've got the trajectory possibility to go far and go further and be better and be more than I ever thought I could possibly be and make a lot of money for myself,

not make money for the people, not, you know what I mean? And I know I make money for the people now as part of my job, but we still do this on the side. We have our own projects and this is still early days. Our podcast is early days, but it's something we will grow. And I'm so dedicated now and so driven. And although I had this thought

whilst I was teaching I still didn't know what that was. Yeah I couldn't just go into law because you have to go back and do another four-year degree. What did I want and I found out what I wanted when I started helping my friend with some of his social media stuff. He owned a water purification business, very small at the time. And I helped him a lot with a lot of social media, a lot of his building brand awareness and things like that around for him. And then I also volunteered. Sorry, I did that, sorry. And that's what made me realize I wanted to go into marketing, not just social media marketing, but marketing as a whole.

And so then I had to look into that career path and how I could get myself there. And how do you do that? So for me, I did a lot of research. I looked at different companies that were in my area that did the same thing. I volunteered. I offered to do free work for people and then showcase my work on social media and things like that. Until the point where I then applied for a particular role that was very low down as a marketing assistant. So I had to start from the start. I took a £27,000 pay at 27 years old, which still could have been higher. Do you know what I mean? There's people who I work with now who are 23, 24, who are on that wage now.

And I know obviously we've had inflation and things like that since then. in teaching you just not it's just not that well paid it never will be unless you are like say it was freelance and has particular contracts which will go more into in a bit but um you know I had to really look at what I wanted to do and make sure that I was willing to take that chance and that cut really. And it was a hard decision because you think to yourself, well, I'm 27 now. Then, and you know, I'm nearly 30 and etc. etc. But I'm so glad I did it then because I'd be stuck there now, not not have done it and been bored and depressed, you know,

completely depressed, I think. But I had to take those steps so it was like I said research, free work, freelance, volunteering and then to get that that role as a marketing assistant and then in that one year of being in a marketing assistant's role I did a diploma in digital marketing. I gained as much experience as I possibly could and within one year I moved to a different role into a larger accountancy firm where I was part of their marketing team as a marketing executive. But I got quite a large pay rise from there to that next role and then I was there for two years during Covid and then I went into the role that I'm in now where I'm a demand marketing manager and as I mentioned last week I now have I work with an amazing team you know I have people reporting into me now so I'm managing people themselves. I've done my mini MBA, which is another course, which

is fantastic to do and is giving me a lot more knowledge and development, but not only that, just being in a role that I'm in, like that I'm in now, should I say like the role of being in a large software company that's so big and has, you know, got offices all over the world, you learn more, you're exposed to more, you're exposed to more knowledge and the way people work and business and marketing is business. So, you know, to know business, if you went to university and did a business degree, you know, that's a great start because then you can go into any kind of business, you know, and go into marketing or finance and things like that and work your way up to the area of director, CEO, and things like that. So yes, it was difficult. And yes, there were stages and steps that I had to take to

make sure that I grew and developed. But there are ways to do it. And I think depending on what career path you're choosing, you know, I would always say that getting yourself out there and networking and meeting people in those sorts of areas and Acting like you want to be in that role and being that person Kind of gives you more of that confidence in that area and being around these people And I hope I explained that well enough. I feel like a kind of I think one of the things that you mentioned and you can't really deny how useful it is Volunteering is one of the best ways

to get a job in something, because you've had some experience. I know that's difficult to do when you're older, but trying to do some type of volunteering or free work or whatever, is really, really a really good sign that you wanna do. So, we want people like that, and it's a really good way to get in there.

And this day and age as well, there's things like, which we didn't really have back then well we did but it was very early days was like things like Fiverr and Upwork, they're freelance websites where you can go on put your job on and I then when I did this I was getting like five star reviews so the more five star reviews you get the more people that message you to do work for them so it's just being consistent and good at it because obviously you do need to be good and unfortunately and this this is the honest truth about it, if you're going to go into something like content creation, marketing, things like that, and you're trying

to offer people freelance work, you need to have all the resources to be able to do it. That means all the software and the right kit and stuff. So there are ways to do it and we will give you these actionable steps and obviously outline this much better, but also we'll give you the things to look out for and pitfalls that you can experience and come across because there are those as well. Okay so I have shared kind of my experiences really. Sadie can you share with us some of yours and your career changes or side steps? Yeah so again I've tried so many things so I've always been a teacher since I left school I wanted to do fashion design and I actually did okay but at the same time I wanted

to get a job I was really so much like oh my gosh I need to get a job got a job hated it get a job I was really so much like oh my gosh I need to get a job got a job hated it I hated working hate that hate it same I just hated working I had no I had no drive no nothing like my first job was in savers and I got £3.20 an hour wow oh my god I remember getting my pay's at begin it's not worth it not worth that money spent it already and you look like anyway and and then so me and my boyfriend... Or one dress spent it. Which we spent it. We spent it.

Anyway, so I remember thinking, I'd finished, I'd quit my job and I was like, what the hell am I going to do with myself? So I thought, well I've got to go to uni, what else am I going to do? So I applied for the teacher training in primary and guess what, now I'm really I think I'm quite smart yeah but at the time I hadn't done anything since my GCSEs and I forgot it all and I had to do a test and I failed it and they didn't accept me. A GCSE? Maths test? An English test? Yeah maths and English. Fairly much a maths teacher. I'm a maths teacher alright and I can do maths at a very high level okay so and she even retaught me when I did my

teacher training to do the same test and I failed it and I thought well you underestimated me there because I would have just revised and been fine yeah whereas you know anyway really dodged a bullet because who flipping wants to teach primary school kids but anyway maybe a lot of people do anyway so anyway I went to I did get on to an education studies. By the way, no dissing to those out there who are teachers and love their job. It is a hard job and we're well done and have stuff to do. Yeah, because I could not do it, no matter what age.

So anyway, I went to uni and I did education studies with English. So I started teaching English first, so then I did my teacher training top up after that. So I could do it a different way. Okay, so then, um, so I started teaching at a college teaching English and then I thought actually this is really boring. So I started teaching maths and because obviously I've not learned much since school, I had to do it all myself. Anyway, I did a level three and it was all like trigonometry

and I'm telling you now, if anyone's ever done level two functional skills and you're not like a big maths head you only thought that was really hard. The level three the questions were that long they took up the length of a page and you had to read it about four times before you could even figure out what it wanted you to do and I kept failing these tests when I was doing them at home. I was like I'm failing it every time it's too I ran out of time every time. Anyway, finally did that many of them. Went in there, smashed it, passed it. Easy. Right. And then, so then obviously did my A levels again and things like that. So yeah, taught maths for ages. Still hated it. Still was like, I just can't teach these kids. They

don't want to learn. They're not interested in maths or English, don't matter. I taught maths and English from 2012 to 2017 and I finally quit and I thought I can't do this. So I did some supply for a bit whilst I was trying to think about what I'm gonna do for my business. I did Airbnb, I rented out my bedrooms, I was doing taxi driving for a bit, I did a bit of traveling in between because I just I did not want to work really. I was trying to figure out what I wanted I baked cakes and did cleaning I did everything I just earned some money and because I just didn't want to teach anymore anyway and I end at this point we're still living at home with parents also we really have ex at this point so by the way when I quit my job I was at

Central Road yeah so I've just bought that house and so this is happened splitting with their ex-partner yeah they had a house together so you've been so sold that I won't sorry he bought me out and then I bought my own house and that's when I Airbnb all rooms weren't it yep all right and traveled a bit and then I kind of like thought well I could try and do some teaching online and or tutoring I was tutoring and obviously I'd set myself up a Facebook page for tutoring and somebody reached out to me and said can you teach all these lads English and maths? So I had to

go in on a Thursday that was all it was. Teach these lads at a football club maths and English. Fine. Then they asked me if I could teach it all online for all the football clubs across the UK so that they that they used and I was like yeah brilliant online fantastic so I did that for quite a while because I was like well it's online you can't really harm me online can you? And if you're not there and you're not listening, turn your mic and camera off, I won't know no different will I? Yeah exactly, yeah. But their coaches would be with them so they sat quietly yeah coaches would tell them off so it was fine, nice, did that for a while. And then again I started doing some like courses for different providers and I thought maybe I should just get another

full-time job, so anyway started working for another company teaching online, massive English and then through that I learnt more about apprenticeships and that's when I decided I'm gonna do my assessors award because I've already done my masters in educational leadership and management. So once I've done my assessor's award, literally, well, with me, I start, I can teach anything up to level seven business now, because obviously my other calls and I can teach on the level five. There's nowhere that will not like I've got so many clients recently,'t I just from emailing companies like education providers and saying this is what I

can do and they're like yeah brilliant so I'm inundated actually I'm too busy but to the point where now I'm like well now for me now it's not so much about a career change and I'm still in education but I'm doing something I really enjoy and I'm speaking to CEOs and directors of companies because they're doing their level 7 masters in leadership and management. So for me it was it was a lot of sidestepping in the in the first instance because I didn't know what I wanted to do, turns out still education obviously, but if you're in education or you're a teacher and you're not sure where to go or even if you're already an assessor and you're working for a company and you're not sure where to go, or even if you're already an assessor and you're working

for a company and you feel like sometimes you're not getting as much money as you should be getting for the hours that you're doing, I still probably only work full-time hours, I'm paid far more because one, I'm freelance and I pay my own taxes, so I still want my taxes to what my accountant does, and two two you could take on so many learners from one provider and then take on so many learners from another you're still being paid for the marking and the admin and the lessons but it's just far more than if you just work in a full-time job yeah and a lot more yeah far more yeah actually and to the point where obviously Sadie's now taking on multiple contracts and can obviously work certain hours and certain days for those particular contracts

and those particular businesses but earn probably quadruple the amount of money you'd earn from one full-time job. For me it's more about where I'm going from here because it's all right doing that but I can't do that for the rest of my life. It's a lot of work and so what I'm trying to do now is create courses that I can then sell to colleges so that okay if there's a package I've got to work. And so what I'm trying to do now is create courses that I can then sell to colleges so that, okay, if there's a package, I've made the videos, I've made the content, you just buy it and then use it with all your, because they get so much funding per learner,

it makes sense for them to just buy the. Absolutely, yeah. And I think from my teaching background, because I know we've discussed, Leanne said you've discussed maybe doing something similar from a marketing perspective that, you know, because of my teaching background, teaching a marketing qualification, creating my own courses and things like that. And they're things that we can do to develop in our

own areas already. And I think finding that new career path that then opens other doors is fantastic because, you know, me being able to probably create an online course, which again, I've started to develop and think about for marketers who may have struggled to either get into the industry or struggle to understand it because I think sometimes some things are so quickly delivered that you can't actually grasp the concepts behind them and that's where I think I would like my course to kind of be developing too and I think that as I said if you guys if you've got a qualification already you've got something that can be built on top of,

that's even better. Also, the other thing I was trying to mention there is, you don't know what companies are doing all the time, okay? Again, I've always said that emailing companies and just saying, this is what I can do, got me so much work, you don't know what they need. Well, they're putting things on social media, saying, oh, I'm applying for a job.

You don't need to apply for a job necessarily, I mean do, but you can be sending out CVs and cover letters and saying look this is what I can do, I'm looking for freelance work or I'm looking for work, you know it'd be great to work with you, I'm trying to expand my portfolio, say nice words like that to make them think okay she seems professional. You know like you don't know what they're doing, I didn't know half the time what I was asking for sometimes. I just said, this is what I can do. And then, you know, oh, can you do this?

Can you do level two? Can you level five? Can you do level seven? Can you teach customer service? Can you teach, well, yeah, if you want me to, I can. Can you teach level four, corporate responsibility and sustainability? I'll give it a go.

I'll give it a go. Isn't it amazing what a piece of paper can let you do? Because you'd have to then go and research more with that. You wouldn't know straight away what you need to teach on corporate responsibility. But you would to an extent. You'd use your e-learning and everything that's... Yes, but you'd use your initiative, wouldn't you? You know what that means.

But you'd need to go and find out modules and the idea and hash out and flesh out this course before you delivered it. Another tip that I would say is fantastic. So going back to the CRSP course, the corporate responsibility and sustainability, that's massive now you know and it's an apprenticeship course so as much as you might have to take a pay cut to go on an apprenticeship these courses are really good like I would really recommend doing an apprenticeship if you're younger and want to do one and if you're older and want to do one. And for older people I will say this there's got to be a give, bit of give. So like you may have to work the weekend, you may have to do an extra, pick up an extra shift, you may have to get your

husband to look after the kids, sorry, look after, to have the kids on a weekend day where you're away rather than being there together with them, you know, just to make, just for a year or so whilst you you get to that next step. It isn't easy. We're not, we're not giving you this advice and saying it's going to be easy, you can change careers easily. It's really difficult. But what I will say is that if you want it... You've probably got another 35 years of your working life. You want to enjoy it. Yeah exactly. You don't want to sit there bored, wishing you had. I'll tell you that and here the day I was watching another movie reference and called the internship with Vince Vaughan and Yeah, I haven't watched the rest. I got a bit bored halfway It's a bit silly for my sense of humor a bit. I need a bit more like smart clever humor than the silly but

But the one thing that resonated with me from it is that Vince Vaughan walked into this sofa, no bed, bed, bed sale shop, sofa shop, sorry mattress store. And Owen Walson's in there, got rubbish job because they've both been sacked from their other job. And then, oh they were made in London, should I say. And he's in this mattress store and his friend comes in and he goes, the future's waiting for us! And the first he's like, I can't just leave this job, I need it. And Will Ferrell's there as his like boss, who's a nod, a bit of an arsehole. And then, and he like, at first he's a bit hesitant and then Vince Vaughn gives him this speech, he's like, is this what you want to be for the rest of your life? Is this what you want to be? And I'm like, yes! Don't, just go with him,

Rowan, go with him! Anyway, he goes, I was taking off this shit, because you take off that shit, you can't put it back on. Takes it off, throws it, walks out with Vince Vaughan and goes for his Google internship. And I mean, I feel like watching the wrestling now. But it was that part of, they were probably in their 40s, these guys at this point, you know? That is such a hard, I mean, they didn't have children or responsibilities, and one of them had a girlfriend but she woke up with him because he was a loser

so yeah they had no responsibilities other than getting another job and surviving themselves so it is difficult when you've got children and a family but if you've got a supportive partner who and you know you're willing to put in the extra time the extra hours you can do it and you get you get your second wind at night time six'clock, you finish your day your dark job, you've got all the things to do, it's hard but do it and try not to get swept up in that oh I'm knackered I'll do it tomorrow or get up at four a.m. and no that's it go bed early when your kids go bed and get up early and I am not one of those people I will stay up late I am not a get up earlier. Sadie will get up at four in the morning when her partner goes to work and do work first. And I've got seven months old. We have an aim to be very successful. And although we're loving our jobs at the moment, this is our next step we'd like to think. This podcast, our project, is

something we really, really want to make work until we spend all of our other spare time, not just doing this, but staying up late planning, making sure we've got the time one evening a week to record, make sure we've got time one evening a week to plan and prep and make all the reels and content and social media things to showcase it. And even then, we've been doing this now for quite a while, it still takes time to build up. It's still a challenge. There's loads of things that we get wrong. Things get wrong all the time, sound. Or we get irritated by and it's just stressful. Amy's very adamant and she's very good. If she hadn't, if she

didn't push me I'd be like oh do you know what it's too much I have to say. But she does push me and I'm glad. And she knows it'll be worth it. I do. It will be worth it. Alright let's move on then. So why do people want to or need to change their career? We've kind of touched on this. So obviously you might be feeling a bit stuck or unfulfilled. You might want better work-life balance or more flexibility. On that note, I got asked today,

one of my clients, they asked me if I want to be employed. And I was like, no, because you're then gonna dictate my time. I don't want to work for you. I'll work with you to an extent, yeah. I did my meetings today from half past eight till one o'clock and then now I've got all afternoon free. I don't want you to tell me sorry you've got to be online even though I've done all my

work and I'll probably get marking done this evening. Why do I need to do that? Don't mention that because it sounds like it's a weekday and I'm not meant to be doing this right now. So if you just... Oh right, I guess I should just say that again. Yeah, yeah. Let's do that again.

Yeah, don't say about I've got all afternoon free to do this, but then saying just say on a day. Um, sorry. Yeah. Um, no, because I I don't want you to dictate my time, you know, like if I want to do my meetings in the morning And then have an afternoon free I can do that I don't want to feel like i've got to be online on Teams because you're telling me I'm being paid from nine till five. Who cares if I'm being paid nine till five? I'm still doing all the work even if it's in the evening. Do you know what I mean? So that doesn't hurt me. Also there might be an industry decline or redundancy force in a shift. Again, that's something that, you know, apparently we're heading towards a recession. And again,

that's when I was asked, you'll have some more asked you'll have some more you'll have more it'll be more reliable for you if you're employed don't you worry about me thank you I've got reliability all right don't worry and also a recession aside everybody needs education of course well they're just saying if they kind of take off some of the apprenticeship letters and then there's no work well I haven't just got the level 7 exactly yeah that's what I'm saying you've always got other options. And also you might be discovering a new passion or interest that that really excites you and you want to go for it and that's okay and don't let people put you off and say you shouldn't be doing that now.

Listen. Yeah or people will say well don't you think you've got too many responsibilities to do that or your partner might even say to you well you can't do that we've got this well I'll'll make it work. Like me and Sadie are not people to be told we cannot do something. Like literally. And if you do tell us we'll get room, we'll do it anyway. And we'll do it even more so

because we've been told we can't. Yeah. So it's just not too late to change your career and you know, you don't really need to start from scratch. You can build on what you already know and what you've already got. And don't get stay stuck in the role. Yeah. Everyone gets stuck in their own race. You need the fear. Get the got. And don't get so stuck in the hole. Yeah.

Everyone gets stuck in their embrace. You need the fear. Get the fear, oh the fear. Fear's the best. About that. About the fear. Like, you do need the fear. You ain't gonna do it if you know,

oh my, I'll do it tomorrow because I've still got the full-time job. I'm not saying quit your full-time job, but I'm saying that go part-time and then pick up a day doing the other thing that you wanna do or something like that or just get an extra one day off a week and use that one day solely for those things and work a Saturday somewhere else something like that you know I'm not saying it's going to be easy I'm not saying but

but you've either got one shot you've got two choices you stick where you are and you probably hate it or you move you might hate it but you might love it yeah you know I mean and if you keep your qualification you've always got the opportunity to go back if you've got qualifications you've got something to fall back on even better. Yeah okay so here are some common career change challenges and some tips as to how to deal with them. We've also got a really nice set of kind of tick boxes that you can go through at the end to help you change your career. And so we'll be able to send that out to you if you like to subscribe, like and send us a message and we'll send that out to you. So obviously there is the fear of the unknown. So the challenge is

not knowing if the new career will be a good fit or worrying about starting from scratch. So tips, do informational interviews with people already in the field. See if you like it, see if you like what they've got to say, are they interested in it. Try out short-term courses or freelance work in the new area whilst you're still in your full-time job and focus on the transferable skills that you already have. The other reason that people obviously do struggle to change career or struggle to make that first step is the financial insecurity. So the potential to pay for pay cuts or cost of retraining. So yes it can cost you to retrain obviously. I did something where I paid

monthly for my course so when I did my marketing diploma I had to pay for that because obviously I was above the age where you get funding you you know, I'd done all my university degrees. I couldn't really get any more funding. So I paid for mine monthly. So there's a way of doing it slightly unfinanced so that you're not worrying about a massive cost in one go. But for things like that, I think the tips would be to like create a financial buffer or a savings plan before making a leap.

So maybe you've, you know, make sure you've got a bit of money saved in the background before you decide to do it. So you've got some money to live off in case something doesn't go right. And also kind of make yourself a plan. Have you got a spare £50 a month you can probably just put towards your course or to savings or for budget on something else that you want to invest in to start building your business, for example, if that's what you want to do.

If you're thinking entrepreneurship, start a business, you need a laptop, whatever else you know. Whatever else it is try and think about how you can probably give yourself a bit of a leg up there. I know we've mentioned this already but consider part-time or freelance work in the new field while still employed and freelance like say go on Fiverr and things like that and just start doing little bits of work for people and seeing how great good you are at it or bad you are and also use YouTube like there's so many videos on there to help you learn things you don't need to necessarily pay for a course straight away you can start doing freelance work in marketing or any other thing for that

matter on Fiverr without qualification as long as your work's good people will pay it. Yeah just one thing to add there sorry is I teach on this level two business admin course and I always tell my students like with this course You could literally just be a PA afterwards a virtual PA and have about four or five clients paying you to do their personal Assisting and you'll be on your own. Yeah So I think even now email companies do you need a virtual assistant? Yeah, you know email little small soul traders Yeah, you can find all that detail Yeah, exactly like with smaller number of employees for example like you said last

week you know you can you find all that information out on companies house and then goes directly to companies that you know will be the right size to be able to employ you but not too large that they'll have got people in house. Yes of course. And also look for free or low-cost learning resources so for example LinkedIn Learning, Coursera or Local Grants. Local Grants is a really good one to check your government websites, LinkedIn learning, Coursera or local grants. Local grants is a really good one to check your government websites. So it's Coursera, especially for things like coding. And as we've said, use YouTube as well.

And I think as well, when it does come to changing your career and thinking about all those things that scare you, again, you need the fear. So if something's scaring you, you're going in the right direction. Do it anyway, yeah. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Yeah, feel the fear and do it anyway.

And someone did say to me, if you are scared and worried about the next step, or scared about what you've got to be doing in front of you and then the task at hand and you're nervous about it, it's because you are challenging yourself to something new and it is a positive thing. It is, yeah. Another one that which leads quite nicely onto this is imposter syndrome. So feeling unqualified or like you don't belong in the new industry. You just need to remind yourself of your achievements and how they apply in the new context.

And also just keep trying to get better every time, every day, try and be 1% better. You know, like I didn't know everything there was to know about like my new clients or my new role for example. And you just kind of have to just keep trying to improve. And learn on the job, Google ask everyone around you if you know someone knows you know somebody in your business or your you know your organization who already knows about those things just drop them an email message you got five

minutes just wanted to pick your brain on something you know when I first started my role I got I had a mentor I asked for a mentor yeah a few months in and that really helped me because if I felt a bit scared to ask someone a question I just asked her and she was lovely she was absolutely lovely and she wouldn't mind answering any question that I thought was silly and I didn't have to ask it in a big open forum where there were loads of other people may have judged me even though they wouldn't you may worry about that and I did you know so find a person you know you can feel comfortable going to. Definitely and it does say that yeah so find a mentor or community in the new industry for

engagement and support so I was literally just gonna say it and then also keep a journal of wins no matter how small I really like that one because I feel like it encourages you to keep going and you forget that almost every day you have a win. But you do. Absolutely yes you do. So the next challenge is the lack of experience in the new field. Now God again don't we know it. And the challenge is probably competing with people who have 10 years of experience. I have been there and yet I am now above all of the people I ever started working with in my career. Where I am, how much I earn and my knowledge. I feel that I have, not in a negative way, but I've got people who I probably worked with in my first ever marketing role who were in marketing since university. And I'm now, I've surpassed them slightly really. And I'm really proud of myself for that. And that's because

of the effort I put in and also the kind of that the people with the years of experience all I did was try and make sure that I learned as much as possible the same as what we've just said in our YouTube and things like that even if you can't get on a course just Google everything and the tips for that really like you know highlight the soft skills and accomplishments from your current or previous roles and bear those in mind I think like how can I transfer them over to the role that I want to be in even if it's even if it was teaching me being able to speak in front of loads of people helps now. Me being able to speak about or relay information in a certain way once I've you know

I've taken it on myself and then I want to relay that information back to people in a exciting way you know things like that those things were transferable onto my role now. Volunteer, intern or take on side projects to build a portfolio which we have also mentioned under use of Fiverr and things like that and then get certifications or micro credentials relevant to the new field which Google do for free so you can look on LinkedIn learning for free courses and Google courses they also give you a certificate or. Fantastic okay and the next one is rejection or slow progress which can be a nightmare. So you know

you're not getting interviews or you're not getting any offers quickly okay so really good tips here and we'll send you some information on this at the end is tailoring your CV and cover letter for every role. So if you're applying make sure you're changing your CV and cover letter to specifically be for that role and treat each application as a learning opportunity and get feedback from the people that you've applied to if they've not got back to you and then also set small achievable weekly goals to stay motivated. There's been times where I've applied and applied and applied and applied and I haven't heard anything yet like I say I've sent out emails to

companies and got work straight away so try different things. So the next one is explaining the change to others. So the challenge may be that you're facing questions or skepticism from family, friends or recruiters which again we have mentioned you know this can happen. So some great tips for this are to craft a strong career change narrative focus on the why and how your past adds value and if you're really worried about people asking that question have a sit down and think about how you want to answer it and then come out with that. Ask chat GPT if you really want to and they'll give you a little or say what you want to say and then ask chat GPT is gonna make it sound better for you so

that you can really relay that message. I mean that's just a little tip you don't have to use chat GPT it's really helpful for you to write down why you want to do it, your reasoning behind it, your your passion behind it and share that with your family and friends and I think it's unfair if your family and friends do try and not support you. So also practice a short, confident explanation for networking or interviews. That's a really good tip and a piece of advice.

And again, you can use AI to help you with that. And stay grounded in your reasons for change. Do not let people convince you otherwise when you know deep down it's what you want to do and what will work. And I think when you really have something in your mind, yes we've tried different things, yes we've been everywhere and everywhere and tried different careers and jobs, but when you find the one thing you know will work and you want to do it, you'll stick at it and you'll be like no this is my

passion, this podcast is my passion, like that is why I'm sticking at this podcast until it works, I will never quit. And I would like everyone around me to be a supporter in that fact. Do you know what I mean? So when you have decided on that, then make sure you stick to your guns. And then the final one that we've got is overwhelm and burnout, which again, can we are so we're, you know, we can relate to that. So managing the mental load of planning, learning, and applying while possibly still working, it can be a huge challenge.

But what you might need to remember is that you need to break the process into stages. So you could do an exploration stage, a planning stage, and then an action stage, or break them into small little goals as to, okay, this week I'll apply for this one. Next week I'll apply for these two. I'll try'm going to complete this course or something. Yeah you can use tools like Trello or Notion to track goals and progress and don't forget something that

we all like to do is to prioritise self-care as well as realistic timeframes. And I do think having a bit of a timetable helps with that even though you might not always be able to stick to it, a timetable, an outline of what you want yourself to achieve in that week or those few weeks or a month or whatever really, really helps. So what we're going to do at the end of this episode is we're going to send out some practical steps on how you can change your career. And these include a self-assessment, how to figure out what you really want next, some upskilling and learning, so some different examples of where you can find

courses, training and ways to build new skills. We will also send you some links for networking and industry research, you probably have most of those anyway because they're like LinkedIn and things like that, where you can connect with people in your new field. We'll also send you some examples of some different side hustles that we might have tried, as well as some examples of side hustles that others have tried. And I've got a really good book for those who would like to read it, and I won't mention that just yet, we'll add that to the notes. And I've got a quick idea for myself and Amy, so we'll probably mention that on the next episode if she agrees to it. Or on social media so keep an eye out. Can I also quickly say before you just move on is that if you guys have got any stories that you want to share with us about you know your current

situation maybe you'd like to just write in and tell us and maybe we can give you some advice or if you've changed careers and you'd like to share your story with us we'd love to share it on our next episode so please do write into us or DM us and the number is across the screen. Finally we will be sending you some information on CV updates and maybe some examples. Well we'll be sharing the information and then you can DM us and we'll share all of the resources. Yeah we've got nowhere to send it unless you DM us or email us. As well as talking about personal branding where Jamie can do a lot of that on that. And finally a little bit about mindset and confidence but we will be revisiting that in future episodes. So we're

almost at the end of our episode. We just want to say that it's never too late to change your career. It's all about small steps and they all add up. So just start with some research, networking and upskilling and your mindset matters. Trust yourself and stay adaptable, stay positive. We know that you can do this. If it's something that you really want, you can do it and I heard a quote when I was younger and I've never forgotten it nothing worth doing is ever easy so yes it might be difficult yes you might have to try really hard to change things and do things and make money on the side but once you've done it and you've worked really hard for that and you've achieved it there is no better feeling. Absolutely I totally agree with that and I think that

we are a very good example of how things like that can come to fruition and they can work and yet we're also a good example of how we've still got a long way to go where we have the things we want to achieve and we want to share our journey of that with you all and hopefully you can share yours with us. So please write us in and we hope that you can join us for our next episode. Yes we do. So Amy, let's cheers. Thank you so much for listening to Drinking Wine and Talking Shit or watching Drinking Wine and Talking Shit.

We really can't wait to see you in our next episode. So cheers for now and we'll see you there. See you next time. Thank you.