Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - Mitch Morse on the 13 Seconds Game | 2021 AFC Divisional Chiefs vs. Bills

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Mitch Morse is in studio! The legendary center, who played for both the Bills and Chiefs, is here to relive one of the most iconic Overtime playoff games between the two teams in which Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs led a 13 second drive to tie the game and ultimately defeat Josh Allen and Mitch's Buffalo Bills in Overtime to go to the AFC Championship in 2021. (0:00) We kick things off. (0:43) Mitch joins us on the couch. (54:33) We go back to 2022. (1:07:29) We break down these teams. (1:22:14) We dive into the game. (1:47:03) We score it. Support the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Reaper. This is the 13 seconds game. Oh, that was sick, dude. That was cool. That was cool. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman. They're Jack and Kyler, and we're on a mission to finding the greatest game of all time. And today we have a very special episode coming out with former NFL center Mitch Morse. And if you haven't already, drop a like and subscribe to Games with Names. Let's go.

Games with Names production of IHeart Radio. Welcome to Games with Names. Today we are looking at the 13 second game. The 2021 AFC divisional round between the Bills and Chiefs

with Mitch Morse. Mitch in one sentence, why did you pick this game? And I'm regretting the decision right now, to be honest. Why did I pick this game? I don't, I don't like myself very much and I enjoy flicting pain when I can. And this game is painful. Sounds like a alignment to me.

It sounds like alignment right there. You know, they don't enjoy anything but pain, it seems like. well it's just and more than a sentence, dude, like no matter what side of the ball you were on this one, pragmatically, you take a step back and you look at it just objectively.

It was just a good game. Yeah. It was a good game. And, you know, like you were talking about off the air, on the air, like it interjected conversations that changed the landscape of, I mean, at least playoff football, right?

And does it suck? asked to be on the other side of it, sure, blows. But, you know, it's one of those games that you'll be able to tell your kids about. And even when you look back at it and watch the game, you can still feel the energy. You know, there's a few games you look at from your past. And they played such a pivotal role and not developing, not only developing you as a player, but it's kind of the team as a whole that you can put yourself in that position. Like, oh, I remember kind of how the air even felt or the crew.

crowd or the little nuances that for 90% of the games that you lose. But I can put myself in that game right now, how you felt the moment, the ebbs and flows, all of it. It was extraordinary. It just sucked ass how it ended. I mean, it's an instant classic for sure. I mean, I'm so excited to get into it. We'll get into a little later. But is this the greatest game of all time? I know Bill Burr doesn't believe it is. And I know he doesn't, and I know one of you two guys hate this game too. I'm a lover. You're a lover?

I love it. I mean, I know it's painful, though. I know it's painful, though. Pain is good. We were just talking about. Pain's pure. As an outside observer.

Yeah, yeah. You learn a lot about yourself through it. Do I think it's the greatest game of all time? No, probably not. What it is? Dude, another one that I was a part of, that you were part of, that 2018,

AFC championship game. That was a big one. But, I mean, this might have been, one of the more pivotal games I've been a part of maybe one of the greater games I have. I mean, what a guy. He brings up two games. What a football lover.

He brings up two games. Ball lover, ball nowhere. And understands the magnitude of two insanely great games that he was on the losing side, but being able to compartmentalize that for the sake of the game. Take a step back and see it.

That's fucking, that's nine men mental toughness, doing what's best for the sport when it's not necessarily best for you. Well, we'll also get into it here, but that's also what gave you that uneasy feeling. Yeah. Right, because that game,

it was a very, the AFC championship game. I know you guys have talked about it in Ozzie back in 2018, but like it was a very one-sided contest. You guys, it was pretty much y'all's game in that first half. And then there was a back and forth, ebbs and flows.

And then it was to the point where we had to go down on the chiefs, that being, with 30 seconds left or so to send it to overtime too. So you're sitting there on the side. of this one and the the sidelines, you know, rightfully so, the human experience, right? Like the ebbs and flows of this game, the emotionally charged, you think you have it in the bag to a certain extent, but there is that like weird kind of tingling, uneasy feeling. Because you know, especially I, dude, we did the shit three years ago on the other sideline.

Fuck, dude. It's shitty. It sucks. But the only reason we talk about that game so much, 2018 AFC championship between the Patriots and Chiefs is because the respect factor for your team that you were on at that point in your career, the Chiefs was so high. You guys were the new girl in school. You guys were the prom king queen, whatever you want, whatever the highest of the high. We were the old farts just trying to scrap away and try to keep the glory as long as we could. Hey, did you touch that ball?

No, I didn't. No? I really didn't. I mean, it really didn't matter. We threw a pick the next play. we threw a pick the very next play ball I mean ball definitely ball definitely lied so you retire last year what do we up to these days dude you're looking at it one of my favorite past times is just sitting down I fucking love it I dig it

and so I'm doing a lot of that but truthfully dude like I don't know you're trying to try not to keep an idle mind we're talking about this and but having full autonomy of your time just trying to be a dad yet at the same time, like what fills your cup up? And to a certain extent, you're still trying to figure that out. But I do enjoy this space, the media space.

That being said, it's been a humbling experience. And that gives a negative connotation at times. It's, you know, talk about pain as you're learning. You're learning so much about yourself, the space. But like the art of conversation, like just the chewing the fat. I love it. It fills my proverbial cup up. I dig it.

So we're just going to give it a go. And if it doesn't work out, I'll go home, sit down some more and march on, man. You know what? It's funny that you say it's humbling. And I feel, I felt the same feeling when I jumped into this space for the first time that I felt when I jumped in the Patriots locker room for the first time. Anytime something new is coming in to your life, it's going to feel outrageously uncomfortable. It's going to feel humbling.

and just like in football, the more reps you have at it, the better you're going to be. No doubt. So everything like the more, when I started realizing that when I retired, like we were talking earlier, we were,

we were herded cattle for our whole life. Since we were probably eight to 10 years old, get up, go to school, go to practice, play on the weekend, the game. It's the same thing when you get to professional sports is

you're going to, school for football, then you practice, then you go and you do it over and over every single day. Now, when you get out of the league, we were given the schedule our whole life. We were given the routine and we were able to doll it up to our, you know, individual specifics. But once you get out, it's about making your routine. You know, that's what we were talking about. And right now, you know, it's going to feel weird because you, you were institutionalized for, since you were probably 14 years old when you first started playing football because that template has been the same since for 25 years of your life. So, you know, it's that that uncomfort of getting into something new

that we all feel once we get out. So brother, you're in the same boat as everyone else. Yeah, which is really nice to hear, but it's that pendulum swing, right? Because you yearned for the thought of not having that structure. Yeah. Like, I can't wait for that first training camp where it's just a Tuesday. I can wake up and, you know, do whatever. But the pendulum's swinging back. And it's been great because you realize, like, I think once you come back from there, truly where your heart of heart lies. And that is having that structure.

And so we're just figuring out in the fly, dude. I love it. I love it. So you grew up in Austin, Texas. Talk to us about Austin, Texas, and where the love of football came from in your life. Was it high school there? Yeah, it was high school because football for me really didn't come to the fold until high school. I mean, big guys.

Yeah. They're too big for Bob Warner. No one, no one grows up wanting to be an offensive alignment either. Let's just be honest. You said at some point, and that kind of goes through with why we were talking kind of fun and everyone, oh, I'm and enjoy pain or they're a self-deprecating bunch or, you know, because everyone's dream was crushed. Unless you were just one of those like super hefty kiddos.

There's like, if you want to be on this field, you're going to, at a young age, strap it up. But I did flag football, which is smooth, man. like but you had the ball. You know, your receiver quarterback and then you had the kids blocking with the old 1960s arms, right? Austin itself is just kind of,

I don't know if you spend any time out in Austin? Yeah. Yeah, it's got a good, funky heartbeat. Yeah. Like a blue speck and a red sea. And it's still, to its core, a really good, funky town. Cost of living has gone up

like any place worth living. You know, the hippies smell a little bit better than they used to, but, you know, grandma's still smoking skunky weed in the park. You can smell it when you're taking a walk. And it's just good folks, good soul. But sports are still very prevalent.

I mean, the University of Texas interjects energy into that town, which is, you know, whatever. I'm not the biggest Longhorn fan now. But growing up, you know, you bleed burn orange. And I went to a smaller high school where they gave you an opportunity. Dude, you remember the first time you put your,

you used to have those big hit pads. Hit pads. And these things are, I mean, they felt about two, they felt about half the size. And then I remember sitting there not knowing where to put your pads in and you're trying to put your hip pad. Like this doesn't feel right. And you're the tailbone pad. They're like, how the hell do weave that with this very strange rope?

But I remember just instantly you feel it, man. You feel that you know, have to be like weirdly cliche or all that stuff. But there is something, yeah, it hits you in the soul. Not the physicality of it all, but just the camaraderie of it, like suffering. with your buddies, even at that young age suffering, you didn't really know the definition of it, right? But it was powerful, and you gravitate towards it. And then that turned into kind of, you know,

you just stature grows. I grew about four or five inches, gained about 50, 60 pounds. And then so the opportunities presented itself. But, you know, there's some dudes in the locker room that they had this vision from the jump. From the jump. I wanted to be an NFL football player.

And my football career is about as least sexy as possible. It was just like, It was the next step was just a happy coincidence along the way of trying to do it right at the time And that kind of got me through until and then once it got to the point of like the NFL It was just being at the right place the right time. You got Pat or you got Alex Smith who taught you how to be a pro He had Pat who I mean Was just lightning in a bottle, which you thought and then it just exploded to this unbelievable consistency of just being a tremendous football For your home's that is that's Matt Mahomes. Yeah, Pat Mahomes, Alex Smith. Then you go to Buffalo you got to chase

of cheese and then you find out that the culture is amazing and that Josh is this prolific football player and then you're just along for the ride man so I know that kind of went off the cusp there but football has been it's been great but it was just kind of a happy coincidence. Man

Texas high school football insane I wanted to jump into that but you already just brought it up Alex Smith Patrick Mahomes to Josh Allen what a what a what a trio

what a blessing to have those types of quarterbacks. What were the main differences of those two? Are those three? Yeah, a hair probably. Can't forget about Trevor Lawrence in there. I totally forgot Trevor. And I do believe, I'm not just saying this because I was with a guy. I love the dude.

I do think he's on the cusp of finding that. You know, those quarterbacks that was really good ones. They have that freak switch. It kind of goes. And it manifests itself in different ways. It's not this raw, raw thing. But it's this time, it's this moment where no matter the moment, especially the big ones.

Everything seems to calm down. They step in that huddle and when they're relaying the play call, it's just like what are the formation, all this stuff. And then they look at the position that it... Give a little reminder. Oh, you just feel it. And he's got it. Singletary, look to scan on this one maybe.

Watch, watch a scan. What's the best. You know, that's the good one. What you're saying basically is in the high stress environments, the great quarterbacks, they don't act any different. no they seem to calm down they exactly it's because they've done it in their head a million times and it's just and i i try to put myself in that position and maybe it's just because i'm a manic weirdo but like for me and it's such a calming presence especially the quarterback and that being said

we'll go back to your original question of those guys and their differences i mean Alex was one of those guys he was year 12 or maybe year 11 when i come in as a rookie center and the patience he had is a dude who, I mean, I played tackle and the SEC but the Missouri

was coming from the Big 12 where it was we had these like five foot splits. We had just started doing three point stances when I got there. And you were your first nine

on seven, especially goal line or short yardage. I'm seeing dudes. I don't even know. I didn't know you could put more than six people in the box

and now that's nine up, you know? And so the patience he had, the patience that Andy had. But he was by far the freaky. as competitor.

I've been around. Alex had, to talk about that freak switch, he'd walk in there and he would just lose his mind in the best way, constructively. And you feel like,

oh, man, this is what makes him tick. This is why he is who he is. And then Pat comes in and... This is Baby Pat. This is Baby Pat. He gets drafted in 2017, heir apparent to Alex,

and he's an unbelievable teammate from the jump, right? I'm sure he's spent time with Pat. He's just solid as a rock. Great dude. And then in 2018, he comes in. It's his team. And he starts hot that week one.

We play San Diego in the soccer stadium here, which is kind of a fun experience. He goes, and then it's just week after week. We're waiting for the other shoe to drop and it doesn't. And I've never seen a dude's life change more from week one to week 16 from the outside world, right? And he just stayed the same dude.

And I always thought that was going to carry him into being just not only a good player, but just a great teammate, right? Um, then you get traded and you sign a fat contract. Or you didn't get traded. You sign a huge contract, 45 million. Yeah.

Highest paid. Ice. Yeah, no, that was smooth. With the Buffalo Bills. Yeah, baby.

And you're, you're kind of introduced to this guy who's a freak of an athlete and Josh Allen. What's his difference? What makes him tick? You know, but you hear it. He's kind of,

people say he's like a puppy dog. I'm sure he spent a little time with Josh. I haven't really. Oh. And he's essentially. Cali boy and I'm a Cali kid. I grind for those guys. That's a Logan Mancans type.

You guys, that is Logan Mancans. Shout out Logan Mancans. Not to get off track. I had dinner with one of your ex teammates last name. Ryan Wendell. Fucking Wendy. My roommate. I know Wendy's,

I don't have you seen him recently. He's thin. He looks. He's got like veins in his arms. Of course. Vascular Wendy. I'll tell you one thing about Wendy. He's a book guy.

Right? Sure. Love being a book guy. But when you share a house with someone, you can't read in the community. TV room. We used to fight all. He was sit there with this after.

It's like six o'clock in the afternoon. We just got motherfucked for 12 hours. I want to go play some FIFA. This guy's reading a book on the fucking FIFA. So he came in and then we'll, yeah, I know we're all over the place. I'm sorry. But I had to talk to you about Wendy. Wendy.

So his first year of coaching, he took his hiatus. It was my first year in Buffalo. And we like, so I'm looking for. places to stay, you know, love Buffalo is not too many spots to stay. No family. So we just got a little duplex where we stayed on one of the sides of the duplex. Turns out I share a wall with Ryan Wendell. His family, he's got a young family. I think he just had one of his kiddos, not yet too, and Meredith, I'm sure he gets a nice. Fucking awesome. Awesome. And he was an assistant coach, but like I remember after games, we'd go hang out in my garage. He'd come over with Meredith

and we'd just drink beers. And, like, there was the first coach I had that was able to, And I think this is true for, like, guys who played and know it. Like, we're going to, like, inside the building, we'll have a good working relationship. And, and that's that. And, but then also, like, we're all humans. Let's have a relation, like, just a good fellowship, a camaraderie. And he was the first coach I really had that was able to marry that. I don't know what that's like.

Yeah. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. I know. No, I know you guys had a good thing going on. but he was in so of course he was there but also getting to buffalo yeah i mean we had seen

josh in 2018 he had come in a little bit and played against minnesota and did this like hurdle in minnesota over this guy and the whole league saw that so you saw this kid had kid and dude had spunk right and then you find out that just he is the best they're really good players like those superstars not only have that all it factor playing, but they take the time, and I think this is a special attribute to have as a football player, especially at that caliber. I've heard Tom had this too, right?

You take the time no matter who you are. If you're the multimillion dollar football dude, you know, player in the league or locker room, rather, or you're the dude who's the undrafted guy, who's, you know, he's only going to be there for a few weeks. The third tight end in the 13 personnel group that you need to get that one fucking play good. No doubt.

And he takes a time to foster relationships with those dudes. And even in your subconscious, you feel like, hey, I got a piece of the pie, man. I got it with Josh. And then his house would always be the place we'd go to. He built this sweet pad in Buffalo. And that's another happy coincidence because then he, quarterback, much like any position, it's just time on task. You're talking about it, retirement, time on task, playing football, time on task.

And especially at that position where, There's so much information is coming at you at any given moment, and you have to quiet your mind for the little things, but you have to be the master of this whole offense, right? He starts figuring it out, and you're along for it. And he's testing things out. Yeah, he might throw something here or there that's it. He rarely makes the same mistake twice,

and that manifests into, I mean, now we're seeing, you know, he's already won one MVP, and he's just, it was so solid. I was such a breath of fresh air. And not only they had such a good culture in that building, building that, you know, not much else is going on Buffalo. So it's really just you feel like the camaraderie with the team. I assume a little bit similar with the Pats, right? Like, there's something special because of where we are, like this building has a little bit of

a heartbeat. And at the helm, we got a guy who would put his body, you know, you hear people say he'd put his body out on the line. The dude does not give a shit about his body when he's playing football. It's infuriating, but it's just, it's such a rallying cry for a team. And he's got it, We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts,

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Search Pride and listen now. It's a breath of fresh air to hear that two of the greats in our sport have that kind of mentality. And it's not a coincidence. You know, all the great quarterbacks, they're great teammates. Totally. You know, you hear the ones that will consistently be great for a long time. Everyone can mess around and have a good year or two. But it's, you see it.

You know, it's the EQ of those guys that makes everyone want to fight for them. It's when your highest paid player making the most money, the biggest name, is also working the hardest. That's the formula. And these dudes, like I think of Tom. And I assume if Pat and Josh want to do this, they're going to have this huge, lustrous career. And they might be with one team, but they're going to have different iterations of that team. And it's got to be exhausting to think about that. and like his stance.

I go, every season feels like a lifetime. And every season you have your relationships and stuff. And they're going to do this, what, 15, 20 times if they want to, but they still do it. It's a special thing, man. It really is. You got to be kind of a serial killer. Yeah.

Legit, bro. Like the compartmentalization of these guys is outrageous. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, just like you're talking about with Pat and, you know, and Josh, these guys, these guys are. guys are great teammates and they're killers on the field, but then they're like great dudes off the field and they do it all day long. They continue to do it. You got to have, you got to be missing something for that. You guys are fucking nuts. Now, um, let's talk about being retired O. Lyman. What,

what does a dinner look like with a retired O. Lehman versus a dinner look like with a guy that's active 315 pumping? Well, actually, I got beef with Wendy because I was, I was, I was, been pretty good recently, but, and he's this skinny little dude now. But he brought the, he brought the old inner O'Lyman freaky-ass dinner out where it was just pasta. Because I guys, did he cook? No, you guys went out. No, hell now. We went out.

Where did you guys go? It was like a place called ganache or something. I could, I think I totally fucked that up. But something, it's like a pasta place. It's one of those cool places where you walk in and the meat lockers right there. You immediately not. You immediately know it's going to slap, right? A little dry age.

But I'm late, so he's like, I'm ordering your food. The Gifellas, and he just, this fat fucking plate of pasta and this huge steak we're all sharing. And I'm sitting there and I'm just, it hasn't changed as much as you think. It's the little things like, for me, just trying to, like, what carbs you put in there. Right. So I didn't, I gave so much shit to people who are like the granoli, like, drinking water out of, you know, a glass bottle. I'm just like kick rocks. and then you're in it.

Yep. And I'm like weirdly into it, right? I even did the, like, the, like, burning fucking 8,000 calories anymore every day. No, it's like fruit. You're trying to slam fruit, potatoes. You're getting potatoes and grotting over here. Yeah.

Yeah. Wendy brought it out. Fuck him, actually. He's, he, he's the man. But, yeah, that takes a bit because you've told your body for so long. Like, hey, man, you got it. You got to keep this up. And then once you hit 30, it's like, all right, dude.

Cool. Here's your wish. Best of luck. And then you're done. And the stress of it all, like, the thing that really got me was when I was playing and I didn't even really notice it. It was like I'd wake up to pee every night. And then I'd just find myself eating peanut butter. And I'm like, why the hell am I eating peanut butter? It's like, I don't know how the hell I'm going to block Aaron Donald on Sunday.

Now, how many, have you lost weight? Like 30 pounds, maybe. That's just muscle because you're not hitting it? I, mostly probably. Yeah. It's crazy because the linemen, they just shrink. People don't realize these guys got to eat. I remember we had this guy, Mikey Wright. It's a solid name.

Yeah. It's a solid name. He was from Cincinnati. He was a D-Tackle early in my career. And this guy hated eggs, but he had to force himself. And he would eat 14 egg whites every morning. And he would almost throw up while he was eating him. But he needed it for the weight.

Like he was always under his weight. It was fucking outrageous. what some of these guys had to do to keep weight. I've never heard even of a guy trying to gain weight. 14 egg whites is an insane. Well, this guy was like OCD like with everything. Yeah. And he was like,

hey, you want to come over and make a homemade ice cream with almonds? I'm like, what the fuck is this? That sounds like, that sounds like, that sounds fun. That's when the Vitamix just came in.

Check out this blender, man. You can make ice cream. Wendy's reading in the living room. That's a nice thing. I mean, this is the shit we had to deal with. Yeah, it's tough. Wendy was an insane chef,

wouldn't he? Wendy was a good chef. No, no, that was a, Conley. Conley was the best chef. Who was the best chef out of the liming he played with? So actually probably the center now for the bills.

Connor McGovern. He's solid. He's humongous. And he loves food. But it's like the guys who'd take the time. Yeah. No. We used to go to his house for Thanksgiving. He'd have homemade beer, homemade wine. He'd make, he'd deep fry a turkey, smoke a turkey, bake a turkey.

Just in case. Well, we'd have like a lot of guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. he would do one of each. He made a fucking homemade marshmallow thing, like homemade marshmallows where he had to go in the garage and make them or something for this hot cocoa that he made to put on the hot cocoa.

I mean, I feel like a garage is where you have to make marshmallows. I don't know how to find out of the fucking meat. I feel like you don't have to, you can't make marshmallows anywhere except the garage. No, no. It's got to be the garage. I mean, on a workbench.

It was insane. All right, let's get into some of your craft talk. Center, have to be one of the smartest guys on the line. You're communicating with the quarterback every place. all day, every day. Who were some of the guys you looked up to when you first got in the league that you wanted to model your craft after? Oh, that's a great question.

I was just talking to Tyler Beiotich, the center for the Chargers now, about, because he's about five or six years younger than me and you have these different iterations of guys that you look up to when you get in. And it's anyways, that being said, when I first got in the league, dude, there was a, I mean, it was a treasure trove at the position, right? You had the pouncy twins. Insane. Unbelievable.

You had Alex Mack. Fucking flexible. I mean, it was the craziest stance. And he, when he'd always run to the ball, head up, had a motor. You would not believe played 14, 15 years. You had Max Unger, who was with the Seahawks and then ended up with the Saints. You had Rodney Hudson. You had Eric Wood with the Bills.

And then, I mean, oh, you had. Oh, who had just, he was only a year old than me, but Corey Lindley, who's an LA guy, he was with the Packers and all these, oh, and then Jason Kelsey was doing his thing too. And so you're just, you're watching these guys. And it's one of those things where I can sit there and say I'm watching Jason Kelsey or the Pounceys.

And I'm like, sure, I want to run, I would love to run like a gazelle, jump over a dude and just absolutely dog walk, a linebacker. Can't care. But I can't take anything from that and actually apply it to my game. So the guy that I really watched a lot of was Alex Mack just to learn how to move in like a phone booth. Like for me, I was moving too much.

Like you learn how to move in a phone booth. And then Max Unger. What does that mean? So moving a phone booth is like so if you come, especially if you're playing tackle, like you think of especially your first kicker, how much space you work with. That's mitigated every position you move inside. And at center, like is if you come. you move more, like if your first step at times is more than six inches or seven inches,

like that's too much. You're going to get overextended. You're not going to have your position of power because off the rip, this dude's sniffing your nose. And if you're not ready, he's going to, and you don't have that base or you're not going to throw that hand. It happens so quick to speed to power. Speed to power. Fuck that. You have you ready for it. Yeah. I mean, anchor. And just to have that anchor and have that base, especially then with how quickly it's happy. You cannot move or get overextended. Or like the first time a guy is sniffing your ear and you think you have to

overextend he crosses your face. Like if you don't have your feet in there or you're out, you're going to look pretty silly. And then Dante is going to be up your ass. You know, saying some shit to you. Oh, 1,000. Are you talking about Mr. Scardacchio? I am talking about Mr. Chairman.

Did you have, you never had scar. No, I met him in passing once. He worked me out for a pro day. But even that short amount of time, he had a presence about him. and then I talk to Wendy or anyone who goes around and chats about SCAR. You hear a few things. One, he would do push-ups.

He was the most, he had the lowest heart rate on the team. We used to compete every year. Our trainers right there to confirm, 39. This guy used to have a 39 heart rate at 90 years old. He was like 82 years old. So he's almost dead walking around, right? They call out a marathon heart. Call out a marathon heart.

I mean, because he used to swim every more and do all these push. He was fucking in, he was shredded. Yeah. And he was, you know, he kind of had this. So he was, he'd do pushups? He would do pushups and then. And then if you were a rookie or the first day you were there, he was going to try to break your will the first three days,

especially in like rookie minicamp just to see how you do. I heard that. Every single person I talked to is like, you know, misery loves company. He's just going to see how you tick. And three is that, yes, he might give you the business, but he's also going to love you up when, when he, when the moment,

dictates it and that he's just a he's a good soul man he really is and you know for for the guys that weren't linemen we didn't realize he was always like super nice to us so like I never thought of it I was like that's a best coach ever man you see the linemen coming out they'd be like fucking scratching their head out of a media like man there's no doubt but I did see the diff like I heard him coach because we used to do all you know when we're watching the

offensive film you'd hear the coaches from the offense, coaching the O'Lyman. You'd hear the running backs coach, coach, in front of everyone. They were coaching. And when you'd hear him coach, man, yeah, he would be, he would get on a guy, but he would also give you the exact thing you had to do to make the play right. He would maybe say, you fat piece of shit, but he'd also say, you take your right hand, you put it under his left, this, you drop your weight, you do your little set step.

Or, you know, like he would give you the technique. Totally. So he's not just yelling at guys. He's coaching him up and just, you know, and he communicates it for, in a way where everyone can, can understand him. You're going to hear him. I don't know if I made that right. No, I think you did.

I think he's going to get your attention a certain way, but then he's going to give you the gold. 1,000%. And that's what good coaching is, is guys that can teach you and tell you and communicate what you have to do. Don't yell at me and say, we got to do better. Tell me I got to do so what do I got to do to get better? No doubt.

And that's what the good coaches do. Who are some of the good coaches you had at the offensive line position? Great question. Two come to mind immediately. One is the head of line coach for the chiefs still. Andy Heck. He's been there since Coach Reed got there in 2013. And he played 13 or 12 years in the league.

So you know that he, which is great, I've always appreciated guys who have played or like those coaches who have in there for a bit. Both of those kind of fall in the same category of understanding the toll it takes mentally physical or like to actually be able to achieve what they're asking. And he, oh man,

he's a, he's a great dude. He's one of the greatest teachers of the game. I remember learning, you know, teaching his coverages and the way he would ask. And, you know, he's very stern,

but he wasn't a dick. But he would also kind of, my favorite thing about him is he'd, if you messed up on the field, he'd be like, what were you thinking here? And a lot of the coaches would be like, what are you thinking here, you dumbass? He legitimately wanted to see how you processed information. Because his whole thing was like, maybe certain dues receive information in different frequencies. I want to match your frequency so I can explain to you because maybe what I'm saying,

what makes total sense to me is just falling on deaf ears. But he was also dude that, you know, if you had a young pliable body was going to work you to the bone in the best way. You know, they also, the chiefs believe in trial by fire. I assume similar to New England, which is just like,

you're going to get better through about a thousand reps. And you're going to sink or swim, and we're going to give you every opportunity to swim. And Coach Heck was right in that category. And it was a beautiful teacher, but very monotone and still one of my dear friends. And the other one I can think of is a recently retired O line coach for the Buffalo Bills, Aaron Kromer.

And he, I mean, he was the catalyst for the 2018, the 13, you guys beat him 13 to 3, but that offense in Los Angeles with Todd Gurley, he was the offensive line coach and run, run dude for that team. They were very good. They're unbelievable. They were, I think they were like the highest scoring offense in NFL, yeah.

NFL history that year. Remarkable team. And then he came over to Buffalo in 2020, and really revitalize that offense. And you've seen James Cook do his thing the past few years and just his ability to, because he's the exact opposite of Adonte. He's not going to motherfucker you.

Now he's going to give you autonomy. He's one of these things is everyone doesn't move the same way biomechanically. How I get out of my stance, my position of power. Now we're all at the point of contact and to be in the same place, kind of this symbiotic organism that thinks in the same way. But he's going to sit with you and talk with you. for a few hours about how, all right, if this isn't how you want to do it,

how are you going to do it? But now that you have ownership of it, he's going to hold you accountable because like, hey, man, we sat there for an hour. And you talked about this is how you want to do it. And to give that freedom, especially the point in the career that I had them, two very opposite guys, both brilliant minds.

And it just shows you like there's so many capable, there's a lot of incapable coaches, which is wild in this league. I've heard that right now, though, line position from insiders. players. He said it's it's malpractice right now with some of these offensive line coaches. There's a few of them will leave them nameless that they shouldn't be done.

And it's the most important. It's honestly one of the most important aspects of the game. Been in TV for five years. Five years now. Every first three months of the season, we talk about offensive line problems. What the fuck are we doing? What are we doing out here? Well, it's the one position.

It's also the practice, lack of practice, the new CBA. I mean, there's so many reasons to it, but, you know, it needs to get going. It's such a volatile position. I mean, yeah, I mean, the no shit moment where, you know, there's five dudes trying to work as we talk about that symbiotic deal, whatever. But the offense, I feel like always, when you first get in a training camp, the offense always takes a little bit longer in the defense, always. And then the offensive line always in certain aspects, especially the run game. It's because you guys got to practice the hitting.

You can't practice in passing camp and organized team activities and mini camps. Those are in fucking diapers. We're in just helmets. Big linemen, yeah, they block and stuff, but they're not really doing it. It's not the same. It's the lack of padded practices,

which those guys, the padded practices is mostly the most important for the linemen. A lot of linemen look forward to, had of practices because you got something to grab onto. 1,000% and you get to work. It's not even just like when people think about it. It's not just like the running off the ball and moving guy from point A to point B. It's like, all right, well, subtle hand placement and pass protection.

Where can I grab the collar? Can I do this or how? Like, part of offensive line plays holding people. Yeah. But there's an art to holding people. Inside. Keep the hands inside. Keep your hands inside.

Keep your elbows in. You can only do that so much to a certain extent with shells. But with pads, that's when you really get to work on. And also, like, how do you hear about throwing your hands? You can only do so much throwing your hands with shells, but like how, what place am I going to hit pads? I'm actually going to emit power, my position of power through the palm of my hand.

You kind of have to have pads to do that. That being said, like, I do think, and that was a great thing about Kansas City and Buffalo to a certain extent is like, I assume New England, it's like, well, we got pad of praxis. We're going to use them. I hear about that a lot. I hear about Andy Reid's practices and training camps and how they're really hard.

Explain that. Explain how hard these practices are. Man. Yeah. So, you know, the rules changed probably my last year there and just time on practice. But if there was three hours to have,

you're going to have two hours and 50 minutes worth of practice. And, you know, I just, you know, you go to St. Joseph, Missouri, which is,

you know, a place. Hot. It's, it's, it's actually strangely hot, like on fire hot. Those Midwest towns,

they're getting hot. Yeah, and they're stamy. And, you know, every day you'll do your ND for 45, you'll do one-on-one pass rush or seven-on-seven

for about 25, 30 minutes. And then you'll do, you know, your team blitzes and all the stuff, your situations. And then you might just do one rack of 11 on.

And then you'll do a situation. and it's either a full go two minute and then if it goes too quickly you'll do two of them or I'm sure you've heard you end with a long drive drill and long drive drill for Andy is one of these things where he wants to, this is not so much technique like by play 13, you're leaning on each other.

He always associated with like what wrestlers have to go through. It's like you're immediately when you're wrestling you're going to get to this point where your body is telling your mind please I got to stop. But what he wants to do is train your body and your mind to push through that moment because you're going to have an 18 play drive in the season. It's going to come up at some instance.

It's just going to. So the ones versus ones would go for 18 straight plays. 2s versus 2s, we go for 12. And the first 3s would go for 8. And he'd throw about a 30 minute, or 30 second rather, water break in about 9. And you couldn't substitute. So these guys, and the defense really actually probably got screwed,

especially the D line more than O line. But you're just leaning on. guys, but you do kind of have to go through that. And also, more than anything, the thing that's not talked about is those two, the one thing I do mess about football. I don't miss playing. I got nothing left to give. What I do miss is like those really, you know, that one or two days in training camp, where he didn't sleep for some reason.

It's also the one day where coaches told you like, hey, we're doing 56 plays of team. And it's, God has a sense of humor, so it's also hot as shit. Hot. But you get through it. You actually might even go through you. I might even crush the practice, right? It just was a good practice.

And you're walking off, and you have those two hours between that and your first meeting where you get in the tubs and you go eat. And there's something about going through that and you're almost in like this weird hysteria, not hysteria, but just kind of this weird case of delusion because of what you had gone through.

And you're sitting in the locker room after the cold tub or maybe in the cold tub, like those moments. What that does for a team. Yeah. You can't. You put that in a pill form. No, I mean, you also got to think about the other side when you had the worst practice. Yeah.

After those two hours, those two hours leading into the low lights that you're about to watch, maybe think you might get cut a couple of times. Am I going to get cut today? Am I going to get, I'm getting cut today? Oh, fuck, I'm cut. We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart.

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Open your free IHeart Radio app, search Pride and listen now. You got to tell me about those because there's, I mean, it's lore about the Oh, you got to. Well, just like you said, right? After, you know, practice, you have, you have about two hours. Guys would take a nap. Guys would go get a lift. Guys would go do psychological training or something. There was something to do that you could do for those two hours. And as soon as you would get in to that first meeting, we would meet together as a team. And there would be about a 15 to 30 play cut up. And it could be from anything. at practice that day. It could be from the individual drill. It could be from the one-on-one's drill. It could be from the nine-on-seven drill. And it just highlighted examples on what is good effort,

what is a good play, and then there would be low lights of, this is not what we're looking for. This is the program of what we're not doing. And it was just like one of those things were... No one was safe. No one was safe. Yeah, that's tough.

But it also, it was one of those things where... It's a different time, and there's so many ways of the top. At this time, this specific time, it almost galvanized us together in this moment where, like, we're all shit in our pants about this. And it was kind of like us versus him. And I think he did that on purpose. Because the times he did give you a slap on the butt, it made you feel like, holy fuck, this was the best day ever.

And then those times where it wasn't, you know, you thought you were getting cut, but then you knew you had to bring your A game the next day at practice. Because every day on good teams, you either win it or you lose it. There ain't no fucking staying the same. You either won the day or you lost the day. There's no staying the same.

They gave words power. Like when you got the praise, you knew it meant something. It meant something. And then when you got shit on. Oh, man. It definitely meant something. It meant something.

You light a fire up. What's the best coaching point you ever got? Oh. the best coaching point I ever got like technique wise was um it's actually Andy Heck my first line coach he said your elbows only have so many punches so you might as well throw those hands as hard as you can because no matter what if you don't throw them or throw them hard your elbows only got so many might as well just punch people as hard as you can within yourself without reaching.

And he was right, my elbows are cooked, dude. They're gone. The best, like, probably broad spectrum coaching advice I got was, you know, what's interesting was I had a coach, I forget exactly who, but I was a young player and I didn't have a family. And I thought, you know, I had so many instances where I would just find myself on a Wednesday in season being at the facility until 8 p.m. like doing another round of contrast or doing this stuff.

And it's like learning how to like, hey, there's also the art of removing yourself the best you can. You have to unplug, even if it's for two hours at night. You have to. Yeah. Because especially as a young player

or when you're still figuring this thing out, no matter how you look at it or no matter how much mental fortitude you have, especially those young dudes, they're going to go through it. That proverbial rookie wall, some guys that last for game, some diet kids is last for a day.

But finding a way to remove church and state, and he even used it as like, all right, there's a handle for me, even as a coach. There's a handle and there's a door I walk through every single day. I don't change what door I walk through. And when my hand hits this handle,

I try my best to flip the switch on. I'm like, all right, I'm in work mode. And then when I get to my, you know, I leave my desk, go outside,

get my car, throw my seatbelt on. I drive home. When I actively put my car in park, that's when the other switch flips and finding a way to do that whatever that works for you, you have to remove yourself in some capacity

or you're going to burn yourself out even if you think you're a superhero and then you're going to have these loals and it's going to affect everyone around you. Yeah, it's no way to live. You got to reboot. And it's hard, dude. Hard. I never rebooted.

That's why I burned it out. I burned out. Yeah, well. I lived at the facility. If that's, okay. I burned it out. I lived in the training room. I got my trainer here right now.

This guy fucking hates me. I don't know why he's here. He works so much. Shout out, Jim. Now, lastly, before we can jump into this game, I've always wondered, give me the POV of the center in the whole huddle situation.

When you call the huddle, are you, where are you standing in the huddle? Are you breaking the huddle? How much pride does the center have on the huddle? How much pride does the center have? Uh, that's, you know, we're a very prideful bunch, Jules. Um, but the huddle, the, the, the center always sets the huddle.

Yeah, absolutely. So you're always looking for, you know, immediately your eyes gravitate towards the side judge to at least know where, you know, the ball marker is. So then we're setting the huddle. How many yards behind? So usually, you know, some coaches want at five or six, usually four, four and a half. Um, enough where you can still break the huddle and have a few strides to get to it. You don't want to break it. And it just, there's a few times where you accidentally break and you turn around. It's right there.

You know, like that kind of blows. But, so you set the huddle. Everyone comes through. There's the personnel shift. Sometimes you're getting it. And you're hearing the personnel shift or, you know, change. All right. So zebra's coming in where you're expecting nickel, all this stuff.

And then you immediately like, while that's being kind of decided and worked through, you get your eyes towards what, what shifts they're making or what personnel groupings are coming in. or if, you know, certain guys line it up in a certain way, really the first thing you see is if it's base or nickel, or if it's base presented as nickel or the opposite, right? And so you're already known, no matter what the call, you're already going to set yourself into it.

Why is that important for the linemen? Because that starts every single rule that you have, right? So what is base first nickel? So base is when... So base first nickel in regards to an offensive lineman is the amount of known rushers. Okay. Right, because you can look at it as like,

are at the base front for the bills at the time, not anymore, is a four three, but then are nickels four two. But for us, I'm thinking how many down linemen are there, right? So four, or if it's like a third down pressure package, there's only an odd front,

but maybe we're going to have odd rules or they're going to present it as a four down, in which case we have to designate one of these guys as a fort, is the known rusher, so that our four down, four known rusher rules, especially in past protection, can apply.

you get the play call, whatever is pertinent to that. And then if it's a certain run, if there's some sort of motion that's going to bring in either, you know, that cover six safety or move someone out or shift so you know that's moving. You break it. And then you have to know the shifts and movements because of the timing of the snaps.

Totally. And it's not like every single one. There's a ton that you just don't, I don't care. But there's especially in certain formations or like you have a do, it's mostly duo scheme. especially when you're trying to move in or you're dependent on if your receiver's going to come out

and you're going to dig out that dude, which is fucking awesome by the way. Always love to do. Yeah, always love the fellas that do that. You know, you starts off, always, usually the huddle always starts off with the cadence. You're going to be on this and then you're going to get the play call and then you usually end on cadence too.

So the same thing happens to you. You just try to set the guy's tones because they're trying to digest so much information out there. Like, hey, it's yellow, yellow. and then now we're going through it. So even if it's their subconscious, they know it's going to be on two, if yellow's two. You go through it.

Usually it's, you know, run protection. It's the mic or whatever if it's designated on that. A lot of the times you can omit the mic call. And I know that's kind of sacrilege for the Patriots. But the nice thing about that is a, that's mostly on the offense line. And the quarterback can move you off of it. But if it's past protection,

you're thinking about your four-downs, and five down rules. You're known rushers. It's five down. You know usually that means it's going to be a five on five call or a six on six call or even if it's a seven man pro, whatever seven on seven man on seven man. And then you just think of if it's a weak protection or a strong protection.

And what that looks like is the cap, is it a three by one or is it two by two? Do I have to, especially if it's like a weak side protection and we're responsible for that outside. Do we have to kind of account for that dude who's capped? Is this a position that looks like the mic cap? And then as a center, you do the best of your ability. And then the quarterback has, of course, the final Trump call.

But usually you're on this symbiotic relationship that you know. Or sometimes the great thing is like if he knows, he just does it out there. And listen, as a center, you like to think, do the coaches that would ask you to be like, all right, I need you as the center position to look out there at the secondary and see what that. I'm like, I got short arms. My gut is going into my lungs in my center stance. I'm having a hard time breathing, right? And I got, I can't, I can barely look past my tackle.

So then that's when you really get that communication with the guys and you know through a thousand reps, what, and they know what information you need. I know what information. I need, of course, I'll be the Trump call. But, you know, at the same time, you've got to trust your dudes out there because they're seeing shit that I can't. Yeah. And then it's one of those things that's also super fluid.

and that's one of the great things about the, like the center position and we would kind of get you outside of sometimes over analyzing everything else that was going on. I was like, well, I have the memorandum that I need to give to the offensive line. I have my checklist, my proverbial checklist,

but that kind of calms you down and gets you into the routine. We're talking about routine, especially at center, every play has such a routine. Every position does for sure. I assume you have the same kind of diagnostics going through. Eyes, eye routine.

No doubt. Where you put them. now how what percentage of the time are you just sitting there looking at like one of your guys and say hey we got this we got Ringo they didn't get a lick of the

plague hole and they look at you and they're like yo what do we got how many how many times is that happening yeah it just kind of depends on where you are if you know that horn's playing and for hound stirred down Foxborough which fucking sucks that's going on and you know the

crowd's going nuts and like that is you make a you make an what's the word a concerted effort to slow down your movement from and you are looking at these guards eyes and you're making sure you're hearing the things

where you get in each other's ear so they can relay the tag you're not talking to the tackles at all right these the guards are you know they're playing telephone in the worst way and then sometimes you're a point especially with young dudes

as I got later in my career it's like listen I have to get you that information any way I possibly can. If that means to get your attention, I have to motherfucker you. I will, I promise you, I love you to death. And it was a rarity,

because I'm kind of a pacifist in general. But listen, I will be, I will love you up on the sidelines, especially when we get this thing down and we're all together, we'll have a laugh about it, but like whatever it takes for me to get this information to you,

especially, because usually those moments where we can't hear each other are the biggest moments. 40 seconds. 40 seconds. You only 40 seconds, get this shit going.

No doubt. So I've got to get this information to you. I'm sure it's the same way for everywhere else. Like, I'm going to do this in the best way, but sometimes I just got to get in your face and fucking yell at you. And, you know, I'd hope you do the same thing for me to make sure that I know what's going on. And, you know, and the thing that I hate the most

is when they pan to the sideline and guys are getting spirited on the sideline sometimes. Like, oh, look at these guys who are at each other's necks. Or it's like, no, it's just kind of, it's the spirit around the game and the moment. And I promise you, these guys are buds. They're working through some stuff. Also, like, they're going to be better forward on the field in the next drive because they're all in on this together.

They're working together as a team and figuring this thing out. A good motherfucker session is always needed sometimes. I was a guy, though. I would give a motherfucker. Yeah, and you can do it in a constructive way. Yeah, helmet toss, earpad out, breaks off the helmet. Maybe a little urgency. You know, sometimes you just need a little juice.

Yeah, you seem like a guy whose helmet was never safe. Never. Never. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it was just like, there goes his day. There goes Jules' helmet.

Well, you know, sometimes if practice was like shit for me or something, I needed a little juice, I'd fucking throw my helmet just to get me going. Yeah. No doubt. I was very, you know, my disposition was very even keel. Well, you're fucking center, baby.

Oh, I know. I know. You're going to hit hold the calls. Yeah. No. No. All right. Let's go back into time and go over some pop culture around when this game.

took place. It wasn't too long ago. It was January 23rd, 2020, 2020. 22. Man, 22. Number one movie, Spider-Man, No Way Home. Easy on Me by Adele was number one song, scream, Kingsman, an American underdog. We're all in the box offices. Will Smith got slapped. The 94th Academy Awards. That was, what'd you think about that? Yeah, I'm a tough, dude. It was tough. I didn't know if it was part of the show. I thought it was a stick for sure. And then it wasn't.

It was honestly, you got to tip your cap to Chris Rock for being a pro. Pros, pro. He kept it going. No, no doubt. Man, the Rams won the soupy. Aaron Rogers got his last MVP

in Georgia. This was when the Georgia guys were unstoppable those few years. How were the, who were the craziest? Who was the craziest alumni group that you ever encountered in the locker room. Like the just...

Yeah, because for me, let me tell you mine real quick. For me, it was the Florida guys. I was gonna say Florida. Fucking Florida. We had a bunch of Rutgers guys for some reason, Bill and Chattniano, whatever, that guy.

Who are the guys for you? Yeah, I would say Florida. Florida. It's something in the water in Gainesville. And we're kind of in that age range where you're probably like five years younger. That time, Florida was really good. We had like 10 Florida guys on our team.

Yeah, they just... I'll tell you what, they, they, uh, they were a little loose in the locker room for sure, but, dude, they had the spirit about them playing football. Oh, they ball. They were fucking good, man. They were hell of good. You movie or TV guy? I'd say less now as a dad than I'd like to be.

Yeah. Like, uh, as much as that five-hour plane ride sucked over here, it was, a dude, I was just digesting as much as I possibly could on the screen. Dude, I always thought the best. rest I always got was on the planes and on the buses. Definitely there. You know, when you were playing. Definitely there.

Even nowadays, like, when you're on the flight, you're not in dad mode or anything. It's kind of like you get to crunch. Even when we were playing, you know, you would sit there and you'd have a 45-minute bus ride to Providence or wherever you're going. You can get the best rest of the week there because it was like, everything's done. Nobody can get to you. No one could get to you. The works in. Were you able to sleep on the plane ride home after a game?

It depends on how my body was. But I was always pretty exhausted. Yeah. We'd always have our iPads like later in my career. So I would watch the film right before. Yeah, the guy would come down and collect the iPads from you in. Yeah. And so I would go to Teddy or Jared.

I say, hey, give me the goddamn iPad. I've got to watch these reps right now. Get to know what I was going to get motherfucked on. Oh, man. Did you do that, Mitch? Yeah, sure. Yeah. No, the thing by the time I was retiring that they had a guy,

like an ops guy, an intern would come through. And he had just a little plug-in. So he would do that and it would take about five minutes for each iPad. So guys were just able to give their individual iPad. So we were all able to go through it. And it was, you know, if it was a fun game, you go through. But even like the good games you'd sit there and I would still only dwell on like the one or two that was like, how the hell?

What was I thinking? You know what? The coaches always say it. Chad O'Shea used to say to me all the time after a practice, whether it was good or bad. He goes, the film's never as good as you think and it's never as bad as you think. That's another one of those great co-shie. You know what I mean? You never shut up.

So soft. Never as good as you think. It is never as bad as you think. And it's goddamn true. But it always was just as bad as I thought and was never as good as I thought. Yeah. It's like, man, that sucked. And you're right.

I'm looking at it. This is dog shit. And then I was like, oh, I had a pretty good game. Nope. Yeah. What the hell was that? Man, did you watch that, uh,

did you see that, um, Kurt Warner movie? American underdog? American underdog. No, I, no,

I didn't, oh, I know what you're talking about. I haven't seen it. No. What? It's wild. They made a Kurt Warner movie.

They made a Kurt Warner movie. Wild. I mean, he was bagging groceries. He was bagging groceries. He was bagging groceries. He was playing for Iowa, Barnstormers.

It's movie worthy. It was a great. It was a great, great story. Well, who's an NFL guy that would have a great biopic right now. Right now, I'll tell you a dude who kind of flew under the radar. This guy named Warrant DuVernay Tardee, he was a guard from me in Kansas City, French

Canadian from Montreal. And he had an incredible story where, like, he grew up on a farm in Montreal, and then his parents were going to go from farmers, and then they went to bakers. But before that, they built a sailboat, and they sailed from Montreal down to Cape Horn and back. So for a year and a half, his high school was they'd learn, they'd be taught on this boat. And then they would just drop them off at a random island with some random people. Be like, your lesson today is just learn.

Or they'd catch fish and do that. And so then he comes back and his parents open this bakery and they end up having, like, going to, I don't know this was a thing, but like there was like a baguette competition, a world baguette competition. They win like second best or third best baguette in the world. he goes, he doesn't speak English but goes to McGill University learns English while learning medicine becomes a doctor, like a surgeon,

plays good enough football. The first time he ever played football was at college. He's drafting the sixth round of the chiefs ends up starting for eight years, wins the Super Bowl against San Francisco. And in his off-season, he would go from playing football

to being a surgeon and getting his residence, he owned, like at one point owned a hundred chickens. would get his own maple syrup from the from the trees and he like when COVID went down he took a year off did emergency medicine

I remember this guy bro now that you say the emergency medicine bar yeah the most interesting in the world when a mall I mean he ended up playing so well he got like a four for you know four for 40 and at the time for a guard it was really good what is he Arnold Schwarzenegger and twins

and now and now dude fucking grew up on an island No, it was great. No, and now he does, he was just over for the Winter Olympics in Italy, doing a correspondence for, like for the French-Canadian. He's unbelievable, dude, smart as a whip, no matter what he does. Like, when I got in there, he was his first year. He'd just come off of, just kind of not a red shirt, but, you know, he was not suited up,

and he was learning guitar and Spanish. Brilliant mind. And now, and now, and now, and now, what he's doing is he's doing more schooling so that is the health care system in Canada is a little strange but there's like this I don't know if it's an application or something where you can especially in rural Quebec and if you need a surgeon you can do you can the hospital can rent a surgeon so he's getting his pilot license so that unlike the weekends he can go be an emergency surgeon at these rural places and come back the dude is he would come back with the coolest

off-season story. Wow. Like, what did you do? I went fishing a couple times. What'd you do? Like, this guy came in with, you know, his leg missing. And, like, that's like that. And, of course, we'd always ask him for, like, medical.

Like, this kind of hurts. What the hell? And he was really cool. He was like, I can't, I can't tell you. I mean, you can't be like, yeah. I used to ask guys if they needed a medical intention to come over to me. But, Dr. Jules, we'll see your injuries. I'll tell you what it is.

Step out to my office. Three to four weeks. What was the, If you said one part of your body, got worn out more than the other. My left knee is pretty bad right now. That's a nice position's nice. I mean, it doesn't hurt right now.

It's just when I walk a lot. I have like, I wore out the whole medial side of my knee. And I try to get like at least 20,000 steps a day just because I'm out running. Yeah. And like if I get up to, I know when I'm at around 22,000 steps by how my knee feels.

Like it just feels like it's just wearing out. We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers,

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Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Pride and listen now. Yeah, that's not... Other than that, like, I mean, yeah, there's bumps and bruises. We all, like, we all, like, no pain when you wake up. But the fact that I don't have to go and perform or, like, practice, like, I'm sitting there. I could be in pain. I'm like, oh, I'm fucking great today.

What's good? What are we doing today? because you don't have to go doing it. You know what I mean? All I got to do is talk now. Well, not to panner, but even from the outside looking in, you had a warrior spirit.

I remember there's one game. I don't know what it was. If it was in 2018 or 2019, maybe when I first got the bills were playing in New England, you cracked out on some dude, and I thought you had died. Like, you had knocked yourself completely out.

And then you're back in, like, four plays later. No, I don't think I was hacking four plays later, but I had to go in the locker room for that, remember? Yeah. And I came back. And like the crowd's like, Oh, my,

are I supposed to be bringing this up? What was that? Or was that the rib? Oh, that was, I could have been a rib. It was a rib. Yeah,

I broke the cartilage of my rib. It was one hell of a block. Zero mispractices. Oh, baby. We were flying in. We were, for like the first two weeks, we had like a rib specialist

because this was the same year that Tyrod Tate punctured his lung. Yes. So they were flying in a rib specialist because everyone was scared to shoot up the ribs now. So they could do the ultrasound

to shoot it up for practice. And it was crazy. Bro. Now the ribs. The ribs are the worst. You can't do anything. Like a sneeze. Sneeze.

It's going to kill you. I was always cool if anything was like not a lower extremity. So like if it was, I felt if my shoulder or my arm or my hand or, rib like if it wasn't your lower extremity you could go try to go but i mean everyone was like that everyone's like that a lot of guys are like that yeah no dude

is that were your spirit man no sir what were you like in 2022 what was what were you like right now you're sitting here you just got over to buffalo yeah so where are you in your life right now where am i actually a great it's a great question. I just had my son about 10 days before this game. Oh, wow.

Let's go. So we had played the Jets in the last regular season game and they flexed it from a 1 to 4, which kind of stunk. But my wife was in Kansas City. That's where our offseason home was. And we had the induction set

for that next day. It's 5 in the morning. So we played the Jets. Caught a flight that night, landed in Kansas City about midnight, drove home, took a nap, went and had an induction date. And then we'd found out on the plane right back

because you were waiting to see where you're slot in the playoffs. It went from Sunday. We got the Saturday, like, at least it was a night game against the Pats. And so anyways, had my son flew back. So in a really good spot.

We just had our second kiddo. I think it was my seventh season in the league. And it was a super interesting season because it had its ebbs and flows. Like we had all these expectations because we had just went to the AFC championship game the year before. And I think we started off with a brutal loss against a good Steelers team. And we're at a point, I think we're like, you know, six and five.

At some point we go down and maybe more, maybe like seven and five. We go down to Tampa and we played, you know, Tom right off after he'd won the Super Bowl and Gronk. And we were down by 28 to 3. We end up getting it to overtime. We end up losing the game. Chris Godwin goes off. Great play. But that was a catalyst for the back half

that season where we kind of felt like we hit our stride as an offense. We knew we were going to do. We'd come off that Patriots game in the playoffs where we didn't punt. Like it was a really solid time. So, but we knew that walking into Arrowhead

against the, you know, at the time, the Titans of the AFC, right? It was going to be a... We'd gotten the better of them in the regular season, but, you know, that, no, that doesn't matter. Worth a damn when you're in the postseason.

It doesn't matter. Now let's talk about those Titans, Jackie. Let's break down these Kansas City Chiefs and jump in the game. Go of these 2021 Chiefs, 12 and 5 started a little slow. Three and four to start the year. Uncharacteristics of the Chief. Defense was letting up a lot of points. Got that ship right in a little bit, though.

Notable additions, we got to talk O-line here. Joe Tuny and Kyle Long came on the team this year. Huge. I mean, you know, Joe Tunney, anywhere he goes. That guy wins. Joe Tunney's a pretty interesting guy, too. Golden Goose, man. I mean, he's a smart guy.

Hall of Famer. Oh, he's going to be a Hall of Famer. First Ballot Hall of Famer. We don't know what first ballot is anymore. Kyle. Kyle Long. Yeah, yeah, good call. Good old.

Kyle Long was a beast. Kyle Long was a beast. Oh, I used to train with him when he was coming out of baseball. Talk about a freak switch. Freak switch. He's got a man. He's great dude. When you see this Chief's team, what are you thinking right?

You probably get like. What am I thinking? That's a great question. You're half of them are your boys. Yeah. You know what I mean? saw yeah totally i mean i remember being super impressed that rookie class they had like nick bolton another missouri i'd come in there shout out missouri creed humphrey and creed came in and he'd

gotten all these you know he was the second coming stuff and as a crumagine i'm like whatever and then he'd already proven that he did and ever since then has been the gold standard of the center position absolute dogging a great dude um yeah joe had come over from new england and really solidified that interior because they had also brought in. I think it was the rookie season, not only for that, but for Trey Smith, who's now prolific, you know, pro bowlers. So they had Creed, Joe Tony, and Trey Smith. What else do I remember?

Yeah, they had that kind of slow start, but I mean, this is prime Tyreek Hill. He hadn't got the, but the nice thing, not the nice thing, but the interesting thing at this time was that Tyreek and Travis weren't the only stalwart. Like they had Byron Pringle who had just come about. they had a run game with Clydes Edward Lair that was going nuts and then he was playing great. He was out of the backfield. And then that defense had really found its mark

and became the number one defense or maybe the number two defense starting in week 11 or 12. So it just felt it felt like it was going to be right and just, man. Freaking spags, turn the dial, maybe. Spags, I got to tell you, I most respect. Our paths never crossed, but the man's a genius and he's really a kind dude. Yeah.

He's a football's guy. He is a football guy. I mean, he's been in the game forever. He respects good football. He respects good players. And I loved competing against those kind of guys. No doubt. Yeah, he was solid.

And they also had a pretty, and now looking at it on the right, like they had some really underrated players like Tarshaw, Wharton, I'm sure I flicked that up, but he's an unbelievable football. Like their second D-line coming in, especially in the interior,

it was really solid. Jaron Reed had come over. I think he only spent one year there was playing pretty solid. Chris. Chris was playing out of his mind. And then Frank Clark, especially in the postseason,

was possessed. Huge. And he had a motor like a son of a bitch. Mike Dana, now with the bills. But so, I mean, they just all over the place.

And then Melvin Ingram had come over. And, I mean, he was in our division when I first got into the chiefs with the chargers. And they, he was booked in,

book ended with Bosa. And then he went to Miami and then came here. And maybe even to stop with the Steelers, but he was incredible. So a really good team. Now, this is your first time looking at Andy Reed as not your coach.

Are you sitting there thinking like, man, I remember those Fridays, he used to drop those crazy third down, roll to the right, hit a flat route pass. He's going to do that against your... Oh, you know he's going to do it. Every fucking time. Third and short, fourth and short, we're just going to roll to the right, hit a flat pass. I always thought,

why don't we, why do we not do this every third down? Every third down. Any third and five? third and, or anything in between. Short. Third and three, third and four. Come on, dude. Roll out.

What's the craziest play you saw Andy re-draw up? Oh, man. Okay, so we had a guy named Don Tari Poe. He was a D-Tackle. He's about 360. And he drew up a play call called Bloaded Tebow Pass. It was called.

It was insane. Blooded Tebow Pass. I know where it's going. I love this. So it was, You know, at the time, as Alex Smith, he motioned out, we were, we had to do silent count, silent cadence for this just because we didn't want Don Tari to have to do,

or any person who wasn't Alex, have to do a verbal cadence. And it was Christmas Day versus the Denver Broncos, right after they had won the Super Bowl. And we had, Don Tari had already that year caught a touchdown and ran for one. Because this isn't the first time. So he goes, he does his three steps, jumps, throws it to our tight end, Demetre's Harris. touchdown place goes nuts.

But then he would also do like some, you know, weird shifts where guys would just kind of like move and do fun. But like the really like fun, corky things where the offensive linemen were doing twirls was by the time I was gone. Yeah. But when he gave Don Tari Poe the opportunity, yeah, there it is. Oh my God.

It's a great play, dude. Against the Gives. Frame that, man. That's insane. Yeah. And Don Tari was, dude, that place was lit up. Really. One of those games you talk about where you can just feel it,

one of those moments where you just feel the air. It's a little crisp. It was solid. I feel like Andy's great at naming them too. Like then you just name like, Prince fries. I mean, it was fat sensitive too. The bloated.

Yeah. You know, I mean, what a caring. He cares. Guy knows his teammates. Yeah, knows his teammates. Let's jump into these bills, Jackie. Let's talk about the Buffalo bills, baby.

The 21st, Bill's 11 and 6. This is Sean McDermin. We got Dayball, friend of the show, leading the offense here. Second straight AFC East Divisional title. This is kind of when that shift of becoming big dog on the block was happening with these guys up in Buffalo. Damar Hamlin's rookie season.

Spencer Brown's rookie season. High-powered offense scoring over 28 a game. Number one ranked defense. Number one ranked third down defense. Yet no pro bowlers on the defense. Unbelievable. No respect out here. Really high point differential here in all losses were by one score.

So, I mean, a Buffalo team that was pretty much a wagon here. Those two safeties. They love to play with those two safeties. You know? Yeah, those dudes are solid. Good folks. How is ski ball? Dave's?

Dayball. This is the perfect situation for Dayball in Tennessee. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that defense with Robert Saw and zooted and boated, ready to roll. Then you have Cam Ward on the precipice, I think of being brilliant. I think he's got it, right? And then you have Dayball, who's this young quarterback whispered. I mean, they're going to air it out 60 times a game.

Yeah. but they're going to put up points and he's going to learn a lot. The cameras. I can't wait to see. I mean, that's NFL's undefeated storylines every year.

He's anchoring the, they're calling it the bald squad. They have nine, nine bald, I can do that. They have nine bald coaches. Yeah, they got the graphics and everything.

Hold on and let me toss it up here. Wow. That day ball really holding his own there as leader of this group. Insane. Wow. Got out solid. Yeah, that'll be a new era down there.

Aaron Whitecotton. He was with the bills for a bit. What's so. Look at Gus Brub. Bradley. You know how bald that team is, man. I think Robert's a brilliant defensive mind, man.

Why? I just think that those defense you play, especially because, you know, I think about those Jets teams, especially. They were just suckers, dude. Those guys would just hum, you know, because it's, you know, play, you know, rush the passer on the way to, you know, if they're running the ball.

It's just like, yeah, you're going to get your bell rung 30 times a game playing that defense. It's wild. You got to tell me, it's like playing an old orchard as a Buffalo Bill. RIP. Because I know I enjoyed it playing as an opponent. I'm sure he did.

Because it was like a frat house. It was like literally you roll up and you're out of college. You're getting dildos thrown on the field. You're seeing kids flip you off that are like two years old with their parents. Yeah. It's a beautiful. It really is. It's, you know,

because I didn't have that experience until my last year in Jacksonville. We went up there for a Monday night game. Yeah. To see the other side. And you know, the windows are tinted to a certain extent on buses. But I had, because I'd heard this. I'm like, I don't know, not the, not the fellow, not the, not the crew, not the mafia. And yeah, man, they had like lightsaber-sized dildos and just, oh, yeah, those kiddos were flipping the bird.

But, you know, because they kind of see the silhouette and they see it's me. Oh, hey, I loved it. I felt immense pride. just beaming even though we got our tails kicked. It was, it is a unique experience. You know, the one thing that was a blessing and a curse at times was having that one tunnel to go down. It definitely made tensions palpable at times,

but also kind of there was something cool, I'm sure for you guys too, when you're like, you're breaking down, your son and like the opposing team walks by, kind of a little friction, just a little tension, nothing crazy, but just feeling the anticipation is palpable for the game. Yeah, so when you enter Buffalo Stadium, there's only one hallway.

And the locker rooms are like right next to each other. Maybe close to orders. They walk out of their side. We walk out of our side and we walk down the tunnel together pregame. It's gonna be the only stadium that does that, right? I think at the time it was, but I think it was either the old San Diego chargers or the Colosseum would do that one of those. You ever played in the Coliseum.

I played in the old San Diego though. San Diego is awesome. Do San Diego had like the horse stables is the, like the horse stables is the, yeah, Qualcomm was tight. It was cool. Yeah,

you're like tucked up in like a hill and Phillips kind of doing this thing. I just love going out there. We get to go out a couple days early. Yeah,

that was the cool flying. You're flying right over the water, the houses around the hill. Exactly. That being said, playing there is, it was one of the greatest joys of my football career.

I just, it just seems to matter a little bit more in Western New York to those. folks and you feel it and they embrace you and it was just I was it was such a privilege to play for that team and and and to feel the love and share their disappointment when things weren't going well and I don't think it's a matter this is just me personally now this I can't believe the

pads are back in this division doing this it's insane it's insane it was wild I was I was really impressed especially that defense was incredible I think Drake's the man truly um but I I think it's a matter of it, you know, when, not if for this team. And I want to see more than anything, Western New York burn. Yeah. Like, you know, Philly, they say, it's crazy when that thing goes out. I'd like to see Western New York kind of light of fire. It would be. It'd be great for sports. Yeah. It would be great for sports. Let's get in this game lead up. Oh, man. That was, what do you think about this new stadium, by the way? So we got, we got to do a little tour of it. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be special. It's going to be a whole different vibe in regards to

as actual seating now, but they were very cognizant of keeping its roots in western New York and the little subtleties and it just seems there's some grandeur to it. It's going to be a fascinating place to watch football play. I can't wait. And it's outdoors still. A dome would have been sacrilege, yes. One of the 12 new stadiums that is only grass and outdoor, I think. Yeah, it's a beauty. Yeah, the grass thing. The, the dudes are

stoked. Yeah. I was there when they, I didn't know there's grass farms. Oh yeah. There's places in Jersey where like certain, it was like, so they had just flown in the grass from the grass far,

driven it up. They were installing it there. It was cool. There's some fresh grass. Fresh grass, man. Let's lead up this thing real quick. Kansas City entered as the two seed buffalo,

the three seed. Mitch mentioned it earlier. Buffalo was coming off what they call a perfect game against the Patriots scored on every drive. Didn't punt. Oh my God. That was a beat down. Remember that one?

We've tried to block that one out. Beat down. That was brutal. It sunk the ship. It did. That was rough. But earlier that year, you guys had come in and ran and threw the ball three times. Yeah, the win game.

That was insane. What do you remember about that game? Being insanely cold. And Mack Jones is one of my best friends. Yeah. But, you know, he's doing his little like... Shamy. Oh, dude.

I tell him all the time. I'm like, why do you make it so that people want to hate you so much? When really, as a dude, he's unbelievable. person. He's a great, he's a great teammate. I think we've all mature in this thing, right? Yeah, 1,000%. I mean, he was 22 years old. Yeah, and when I had him in Jacksonville is great.

That game in particular yeah, right place, right time. Everything went, you know, sometimes it just goes well for you. And everything lines up and everything did. We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR Radio. Canada's

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Now, do you think playing these guys, would you play them? Week five? Week five. How much that helped going into this game? Or was it different, different team? We were both very different teams, especially that Chief's team. Early. Especially that Chief's team on defense.

They had this light switch moment where they just honed in. Chris Jones hadn't played that game too. So they had missed a few guys. So, yeah, I mean, it was nice to go in there and feel that, especially that was the first we played him since the FC championship game where we lost but I mean we had the wearer with all to know that that wasn't really going to matter much what was the mantra leading into the week of prep for this the mantra was I mean

we we understood the magnitude of it we understood that this is the team that eliminated us from possibly going to the Super Bowl the year before that being said I'm sure the teams you've been on too it's like we know what's gotten us here we understand that mistakes will be amplified. This is the biggest stage. But don't change up what you've done because we know what works.

You have to keep it the same. I mean, we used to get the same speech. Don't be taking any extra pre-workout drink for this game. Don't do anything different. Yeah. Don't. Look, we've been doing this shit all year, fellas. Look, we've been doing this shit all year.

That's like the shit we would hear. The Hayes in the barn type of. The Hayes in the barn. Let's get into the game. All right. This, I mean, if you don't know about this guy, I mean, you've been living under rock. This is unbelievable arrowhead playoffs, division round. This is when that rivalry is really starting to bubble up.

And we start this thing off with a long 15 play 71-yard drive. Singletary kicks it off with a big run. He was so hot around this time. Went fourth down twice. Twice. Once in midfield, fourth and two. Then again, you get in the red zone on the one. and goal going for it on the first drive in Arrowhead? Like Mitch, what was the script like and what was that drive kicking things off like?

Yeah, I think we understood the monster that was on the other side, which was that Chief's offense. And I mean, you close your eyes, point someone, they're liable to light you up, right? So we knew that we had to take every opportunity we get and sometimes we had to create it. I do remember coming into this game, we were going to be aggressive on fourth down, which is great. It's liberating.

Yeah. It's a super liberating thing. And I mean, it worked out. And then the little bit of the story of this game, the Chiefs respond, 13 plays 74-yard drive. Pat had that huge 35-yard scramble right up the middle of the field, gets it done with his legs again in the red zone, punch it in 7-7.

We're like, we're trail, we're keeping serve here. You guys were also running that quarterback power to the weak side of a hunch. Man, ran that quarterback power, a lot of pin and pole with the quarterback. A lot of pin and pull. Like Dayball loved pinn and pole front side. we'll walk in the backside of the offensive line to make it a play action pass

or give it an option. So that, Kansas City Drive right after. Yeah, Pat scrambled three times, I think for like 52 yards, and those scrambles were insane. So immediately you knew. Demoralizing too, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's on the road,

get one on. Totally. We put seven on the board. It's just, that's the ebbs and flows of a playoff game, man. Like, you're cloud nine. Yeah, we just accomplished one of our goals. they come and score right away.

This was full just trading body blows, trading blows. Come out in the second quarter of, pardon me. We have three punts, a little weird on this one. Man, I made a hawk, flip the field. A big one down to the Kansas City won. That was a great punt. Shout out the special teamers, baby.

Got out. Special teamers were on. Now, when this game unfolded, you guys, like we just talked about, you guys score, they score, clearly adjusting to the adjustments game. Then you go, three punts, three punts.

When did you feel like the game was kind of settled and we knew what it was about? Yeah, I mean, so we knew the Chiefs were an incredible second quarter team. We were kind of getting into the fold of this thing. When did I feel like it really settled down? Probably like five or six minutes left in that second half. That's usually when I felt like most games settled in. By that late. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. I never believed in settling in. like you really found the groove of how this game was going to go early. And then I feel like you have to reignite that. I feel like that even when you go on halftime, there's a re-ignition unless there's some huge discrepancy and score. But yeah, we knew, especially after we traded a few puns,

has a few defensive stops on both sides that, you know, this game was starting to settle in. Yeah, and we see Kansas City get the next win here and get up 17 or 14-7 with a Byron Pringle touchdown. defensive holding one of the few penalties in this first half extended bad drive Dane Jackson third and goal that kept it alive then it's a minute 52 left Buffalo down to score got to get aggressive here under two minutes left go down seven plays 75 yards in a minute 15 get a touchdown Cole Beasley was big Cole Beasley was big on that drive

Bees was 14 14 then you had you give him the ball back with 20 or 37 seconds pardon me and Pucker missed a big miss though yeah yeah he's He's a stick now. When that, when that happened, you felt like it breathed a little life into the, the, the, the,

the stadium definitely, uh, yeah, because it was so in characteristic, especially I was with Harrison. He's automatic and just like, the, talk about mental fortitude,

that dude's got it up here. Like, he has just built differently to see that. It was just kind of a, it was, I couldn't believe it. What's McDermott saying in, at halftime?

for he he was always pretty good yeah he was always pretty good at half time which was like don't we just kind of reiterating when we talked about not too high not too low keep your foot on the gas violent aggressive yet in the realm of execution now you guys get down double digits here yeah 23 14 yeah how are we feeling at that point if i remember correctly they come out with like an eight minute drive yep big jerrit jerry jerry mickinin uh that's if he played drive 64 y' yard yards, ends in a field goal, which is a little bit of a win. But it's still, it's a win because you take off that much time and you're still coming away with points.

Yeah, 13 plays 7.59, almost eight minutes. You're right, Mitch. But I remember we, I felt terrible for our defense because they had this 15 play drive. Then we go three and out. Yep, real quick. And then they get back out there and I think they score a Tud. They do five plays, 61 yards. That one ends in a, uh, McCull Hardiman, 25-yard run.

He was electric. That was incredible. The reverse. incredible play. Classic Andy. So you guys go down 10. Now what's Josh, how is Josh feeling in the huddle

once you guys are down 10 in Arrowhead against the team? You guys, that everyone struggles against. Yeah. Like, what's his vibe in this huddle when you guys are about to start kicking this thing on?

Right. So it kind of goes back to the very beginning of this conversation is those great quarterbacks, right? That's, they have that it factor where everything just kind of tightens up, especially in these moments where everyone else is kind of,

you know, there's fainters are slammed, right? These, when these guys are in a really good spot. But we all understood because this is kind of how the script had gone for the year prior. Like, we kind of let it go, get away from us in the FC championship game. He was, he's always just kind of fired up about just executing doing your jobs. Just enough to kind of get the troops riled up, not too much where it's like some strange soliloquy that, you know, we've all been around those dudes that try to give you some strange. now I'm like,

I'm right, buddy. Was Gabe Davis over in like Anaheim with Danny Glover before this game, Angels in the Outfield? Because this guy has four tuddies like my show as well. This guy had the best game in the history of his life.

He's such a stud, dude. There's been no greater. You got that reference, right? Angels and Offield. Sure. Angels and of course. Leafly. Oh, and I got it once you said Angels in the outfit.

I was a little bit. Like you said Dan Glover didn't get me at all. but Angels the outfit I'm all about. I was a little bit behind. Gabe's had a future mulchous seasons injury. But this game in particular. I mean, he shined.

Shined. I mean, four touchdowns. It was incredible. I mean, you guys were beating like blitz zero on those explosions. Were those blitz zeros? Well,

so they actually didn't blitz very much at first. And then they started giving it the business and going. And then Josh was able to step up a few times. And Gabe just the whole, you talk about the whole, Holy Spirit. Yeah, but you can only step up a few times because there were some like real Blitz looks. And you guys ended up getting those huge explosion touchdowns, plays where guys are wide open.

It's because they had that one second. Totally. If you have, you just got to hold them. That's the one thing for Blit Zero. You either have to have a combination that's going to win quick or you're going to have to hold them up. Two take three, man. And just pray to Jesus.

You get that football out. And he gets it. And he gets it. And this is in that same moment right now. We talk about getting down nine points. what's Josh doing rallying the troops? Guys, we got to get something going here and you got it fast. One place, 75 yards.

Bomb to Davis. We're right back in this thing. It's 23, 21. So that felt good. How are we feeling 2321? It's just like the same thing. Guys, we know it's going to be up and down. Just fucking in the middle.

We were a little fired up after this one. Fired up. Because you felt like if we'd sputtered again, if we'd done another three and out, our defense is getting no. rest, they go down to score again. It's well more than a two possession game. This is, we're going to have to get

some turnovers. But that was such, you can feel it. You're talking about putting yourself in that stadium. That just, oh man, that felt good. I mean, when you quiet down Arrowhead, it's a hard place to quiet down because they get rocking. It's a great feeling.

That's how you quiet them down. You go score. Got to score. Shut them up there if you can. And not to take anything away from Gabe there's his insane performance, but we do need to backtrack here real quick in the second quarter of the Honey Badger concussion out. I mean, that's that was a big. First drive.

Yeah. First drive. Yeah. They didn't have McDuffie yet. Nope. Now, you guys were exposing them. It, it took a while. It took a while.

We were just trying to, you know, but then around this time is when we started airing it out. And Dave's was doing his thing. Keep chipping away. And talk to us about. that last minute unbelievable that last minute of the game

of the game you guys are down right well so yeah so we I think we get the ball back with like eight minutes left in the game and we go on a 17 play drive right after a few

and then it's fourth down with I think like two minutes and 30 seconds left and Gabe does one of these out and ends and the guy trips his beat and it looks it looks pretty

you know it's not I'm sure it's not really fun for him to watch but it wasn't like he got, he just tripped over his feet. Anyways, Gabe goes in there, scores. Now, I think we're up by three. And we're feeling good, but there's still a ton of time. So no one's, we're feeling like,

we're in this game, but nothing's over at all. They go down. I think they convert a big third down with Travis, and then Tyreek hits this run. He was in peak form because he also had a punt return of this instance that almost broke for a touchdown. They got three out of it. Yep.

That's up. So he was on fire this game. He goes down, throws up, chunks up the deuce. Yeah, just some real Houston hip hopper reference for you. Trunk up the deuce. And then he goes in. And then it's like a minute and six left in the game. And we had just gone on the 17 play drive.

We know. And we had a kind of like, it was a grinder. Are you running out of plays by this time? I'm sure. But Dave's also carried 70 plays. He carried in like fourth. Because you guys were playing a lot of plays at this point. I mean, these were long drives.

You guys probably had 100 or 88 plays. Yeah, it was a pretty substantial amount of plays. But that's also the great thing of the playoffs because it's usually cooler nights. Get your breath. You're not getting too warm. And you're in shape by then. Dude, Pops was chunky as fuck, dude.

I'd already gained my baby weight. We looked like Michelin men, all white, terrible look. That being said, we go down. And yeah, so like this game, we had Cole Beasley who made some really key third-downs. And Cole's the man. Like I love Cole. You know, Emmanuel Sanders on this drive had a huge conversion because if he hadn't even caught it, it was thrown for a flag.

And Emmanuel Sanders was also, you know, rock solid. And then Gabe also had another big catch. We get down. I think it's first down, maybe on our 25 with 17 seconds left. And then, you know, it's interesting sometimes when you're in the blocking situation, especially when it's kind of, we talked about that sub personnel or this four down where especially at center. It's fucking awesome because rarely are you blocking one-on-one.

Yeah. So you're going, you're helping your guy and you kind of feel it. You don't hear it. There's something about it. You might hear or you feel the balls just escaped. It's out. And so immediately you're seeing this. And you're trying all in a split second to diagnose something you really don't know.

which is the back half, you know, this secondary. What else? But everything, he just kind of opens up, catches it, and it was just on the field, in the moment, pure relation. Because he felt like, yeah, you felt like at the time, it was just this huge emotional roller coaster and release. It didn't feel like you had the game by any means, but it's just like, holy shit, like, I can't believe.

It didn't feel like you had the game. There's 13 seconds. 13 seconds. Yeah, I'm telling you, dude. I'm telling you. I just, maybe it's my. eternal pessimism. I'm like that too, though.

You know what I mean? Like, I just, until the clock hit zero. Like, this was not full celebration moment. We got this thing. Oh, I mean, guys were feeling it. And even yourself, like, even me saying that, it was hard not to feel like, I can't believe this, it's probably going to happen.

Yeah. There's that little dude in the back of your head that knows who's on, what's going on on the other side, what the conversations, you know, the dude over there who's just cooking about plays and the fellas who can just slang and bang. Yeah, dude. And so then you guys score.

36, 33. Bills are up at this point. As we said, 13 seconds left, kick off. Three plays, 44 yards later, sets up the Butker field goal. This time drills it.

Sins a thing. Nails it. Which you got to give him, you got to give him his kudos on that, man. Like, you go out missing a PAT. And I've been around. Mr. P. A.T. earlier,

we forgot to mention that. Gasowski did that with us a couple times. Mr. P. P. then came back late, kicks a game winner or a tying field like that. That's almost more impressive than a guy going five for five. Oh, got to misses that shitty one at first and then go nails a 50 yarder to get it going. I totally forgot about that PAT too. Yeah, he, he, and you knew it right when it's set up.

So he was going to nail that. You guys go to overtime. You lose the toss. Again. What goes into your head? Again. Again, loose toss. What goes in your head?

Did you, did you write there? You son of a bitch. Did you right there think that you lost the game or was going to be tough? Oh, man. Just with the way the game had gone, you thought maybe there was a chance. But, I mean, once they started marching it down and once they got into the red zone or the high red. Trave. And then Trave does this thing.

and, you know, it's kind of a similar instance, this feeling of just, oh, it's hard to explain. It almost doesn't hit you at first, right? Because it's just like you're still, your mind, even your subconscious, trying to comprehend what the hell is happening. But you see that celebration of the guys, and it kind of brought me back.

And I hate keeping going back to that 2018 game, but it was right when you guys had scored that overtime. And David Andrews that did one of these, like, it was just like freaky dance to the side. You know what I'm talking about? I know these things. And you just felt it in your soul. And, yeah, walking off that field is I lived 25 minutes away from the stadium.

So I was going to go home, fly home, do exit interviews, and fly back to Kansas City. And it's so hard to explain that locker room afterwards. I've been around some disappointing locker rooms. Emotions are, you know, you don't know when they're going to catch you or not, how they're going to catch you. you when they are. And it was just raw. It was raw, dude. How long did it take you to process this that you guys lost that?

How long? I mean, it's hard losing in the playoffs and going home. But like to lose in that fashion with the, just the ups and downs of climbing mountain, you had to climb a mountain. You climbed the goddamn mountain. Sure.

And then you had to get, and then it gave it back up. I mean, That takes some time. That off-season must have been tough. You know, for me, it was interesting because I was going home to a new kiddo. So that was a great. That was a great palate cleanser, right?

Very good. Going home to my family, you know, of course, in my neighborhood, all cheese fans, but I had kick-ass neighbors who took care of me. And they were very kind and understood where I was at and they were great. So that helps a ton. How about that? Totally. So he loses in Kansas City for his show.

year in Buffalo. Then he's going to go back a day later after his exit physical and he's going to go sit there and probably have some Kansas City barbecue with his brand new little beautiful baby next to some Kansas City fans. It's a unique experience for sure. I remember the first year I left they ended up winning the Super Bowl and I'm sitting there watching the Super Bowl in Kansas City and fireworks are like the fireworks kept us up all night. It was such a weird feeling because it's like you're your friends. Yeah. Right? And, you know what? I'm not going to sit here and

I was meant to be in Buffalo at that time and time marches on, right? But it was always a strange instance for them to keep going back and back and me just being in my living room there or, you know, in Overland Park, Kansas just being like, fuck dude, come on. Well, I can give us a, give it his one shot.

Give us one opportunity. And the, you know, the cheese fans are always very kind of girls fans. They're pretty actually kind. They're great, great fans. They're not really assholes. No. Like, they'll motherfucker you.

and they'll do some stuff, but like they're always pretty polite. They're great. Salt to the earth, solid as a rock. And it is really one of those fun stadiums to drive into. You can smell it before you see it. Now, Jets fans on the other hand. No, I just, no, it's true. I remember going to MetLife, I think of the first game of 2023,

and we're walking up, we're driving up there. It's Aaron Rogers game where he comes out with, you know, and he ends up, unfortunately, tearing his Achilles, but so places on fire. Yeah. And I'm with Dalton Kincaid, who's a rookie as his first game sitting in front of me. And this kid had to be eight or nine grabs a hot dog. Chunks is, what a cannon in this kid had.

20 yards hits, it would have hit him right in the face, mustard and everything. And then they just like, moan him and they're just like, eh. And he just looked back at me. I'm like, dude, yeah, this is as the NFL, but also welcome to MetLife. Yeah, welcome to MetLife. Man, welcome to MetLife. Man. We'll be right back after this quick break.

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Celebrate Pride with the outspoken network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Pride and listen now. All right, what's the aftermath of this thing? Let's put a bow on this thing. The Chiefs would end up winning this thing. 42-36 on a Travis Kelsey touchdown.

Instant classic. Instant classic. Kansas City would move on to their fifth straight AFC championship game. Then they would fall to Cincinnati and what they renamed Burrowhead, 27, 24 in the AFC championship game. This game would win the SB game of the year for 2020.

to. And this, of course, would cause them, one of the causes to change the overtime rules, ensuring that both teams got the ball. Tyreek Hill would leave for Miami and Free Agency later that year. And then Mitch, of course, would go in to play two more seasons. This was not only Harold is an instant classic. Set tons of record. Gabe Davis broke the playoff record.

Set had four touchdowns in a single game. That's a playoff record. Three go-ahead touchdowns in the final two minutes. Cheez. Playoff record. but no, this was all-timer, instant classic. We're still talking about it.

I feel like this is going to score pretty high. There's no turnovers by either team either. And clean game. Wow, great call, Mitch. We'll get into it when we score this thing. Let's get into it. Let's name it and score it because I want to get into it. Now, let's name the game.

These are some names that we came up with. But if you have a name that you have, we'll go with that. We came up with the 13 second game. 13 seconds, the Gabe Davis game, or anything else? I would say the Gabe Davis game. I would say the Gabe Davis game. He, what he was able to do that game and those big moments, not even those touchdowns.

There's a few. There's, I mean, there's one catch that he bobbled going out of the sidelines. He did this toe drag. He was just on fire. He was an all-day sucker in the biggest moments he came up, clutch. Man. Score the game. Is this the greatest game?

of all time. Let's score it. Mitch. Decimals encourage, buddy. We encourage those decimals. So you like, so how prefaces. So we'll get into, we'll get into it. We'll just pump the breaks. Pump you. Pumping. Pump it right here. Eminem. We got you. Stakes. The stakes of this divisional game. Oh. Zero to 10 decimals encouraged. The stakes. Oh, man. Uh, nine point one. Nine point one. I would say it's a 9.3

just because for me Oh wow okay At a 9.0 I see it I see it I see it We're all in the same little group here That's nice That actually feels nice to roll together That's good I like that

It feels really nice What's the star power of this Now let me tell you I mean this is an instant classic right Yeah But when it's all said and done There could be two top five top eight guys of all time at the most important position.

Pretty starry. Yeah, I mean, you think of like the three amigos over there at the time with the chiefs. Yeah, Pat, Trav and Tyreek. And then you have Chris Jones, who's possibly Hall of Fame. All four of those guys are probably Hall of Famers. And then with the bills,

Josh, and then a few guys whose careers are still being written. Star Power, if you just look at those numbers, and then the guys who played well, I would say even more than the stakes, probably 9.3 for me. I'm going to go with the 9.2. I mean, you got good score. Pat Mahomes and fucking Joshy.

At an 8-9, I got went 9-3. I'm so low, but we're still in the ballpark. I still feel like we're all together. Luster up, maybe. Even though you, is that you? Yeah, I don't know why I did that. You fuck that up pretty good. Like we're all in this.

Usually I'm a high-score guy. What's getting into me? Yeah, this is great. God. What about the gameplay? Zero turnovers. unbelievable special teams plays, unbelievable explosion plays,

unbelievably long drives from both teams, high execution in this game. More touchdowns. 13 seconds. Three from my own. A minute. On that itself. On that itself.

I know. Overtime. I know Bill Burr would disagree because he likes a little more defense on this thing. I would say gameplay for me would be 9.6. 9.6 is, that's strong, but rightfully so.

That's a 9-4 to me. I'm with you. Let me see where did I give it here. I won't the 9-8. 9-8. We're all back, dude. We're all back. This feels nice.

Now we're feeling good again. We're all even in out here. Water is finance level. You know what else is nice? Your restroom has like all the assortments of like altoyed. Yeah. That feels good. That's Leah.

Shout out. Shout out. Leah. That feels very humming in there. Thank you. Oh, yeah. We got a couple smelling salts in just case you want to get a little. Do you really have smelling salts in there?

Yeah. I haven't done one in. I haven't done one in. I don't know. We might should have to, we might do one. We'll have to do one. I haven't done one. Oh, man. It's just, I feel like I haven't done one since like the first Trump administration, to be honest, when it's been a while.

In a minute. Four years, you stopped doing them after a while? I didn't do. I like to do them before every drive. How was you going to say? Yeah, I don't know. Like someone got me with the, everyone, every team's got the dude with the bottle. Oh, yeah.

I got, no one, if you need the prep, but if someone just gives you a drive-by, you're not expecting it. It makes one to throw up out of my ass, dude. It's terrible. It's not everyone. It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. No. Yeah. Kind of banned, kind of not.

Who knows? No, the problem with that is, it's like the team can't get it. But now you're going to get some stuff. It's like dudes who want more milligrams of nicotine in their thing, so they go to Sweden and get the 30 things. They're getting these things from China that are going to melt your, melt your nasal.

Who knows what kind of chemical is. Yeah. take one hit. Whoa. Where am I? All right. Let's grade the name of the game. The Gabe Davis game, four touchdowns, NFL record.

This one's got some staying power. The name, we grade the name, zero to ten decimal. Okay, so I'm going to say there's the only reason I'm going to get it lower. It's still being the nine's. But you could, like, the 13 seconds game, all that stuff. You could, you could combine them. I've been 9.0. You can combine the 13 second.

Gabe Davis. Gabe Davis game. that would cover it all. It's a little bit long-winded. That's the only reason why I would say like... But the only thing is, that's what everyone's going to remember it as. Everyone's going to remember the 13 seconds. 13 seconds.

So that's the thing. So that's the only reason why a docket is like for the guys who are in it or no ball, they know what game. Immediately. Exactly. There's no mistake in this way. I'm going to go with an 8.9. Solid. Yeah, that's solid.

I mean, this is some of the highest score. I went 9-7. Kyler went 9-7. This is going to be the highest game. This is going to be insanely high, Leah. Calculating here. This is a 9.26. Where does that land on the list?

That puts us at new number three. Four. Number four, yes. The super blood wolf moon. That was the name we mentioned earlier. You were talking about. Wow.

Really, really good. New number four game. Yeah. Jeez. Pretty good. We've had some hitters. We just did a, we did the, we did the World Cup game yesterday

with Argentina versus France. France. It's messy when he won the World Cup versus a Moppe. Are you going to make any games? Huh? You're going to make any games? Oh yeah. Boston.

Dude, how was the roast? Kevin Hart one? Yeah, I saw you with Bert. It was awesome. Laughing your ass off. Yeah, no. The roasts are always fun. I was actually.

I enjoyed this. They feed you at those things? Like, do they give you? There was a cheese platter. And it was stale cheese. I tried it. The cheddar was like, you know,

it's interesting. Like, yeah, yeah, the cheddar isn't to me, but some of the cheeses, like, they come out.

Oh, yeah. That's such. It was a chakutery board, but they didn't really feed us. Yeah. They gave us drinks. But, dude, the thing for me is like

charcuttery boards, as long as there's more, I give them props as the only fruit. I don't give them props. The only fruit they have is just, grapes? No. If they have more than grapes? If they have a fig? You got a friccault on there? Maybe have a

you know, maybe a raspberry jam. Yeah. Also, a little disappointed because there was no meats. It was just a cheese chakouterie. I mean, this is this is L.A. Yeah. And we should have options. Yeah, but if American Airlines is going to give you more on their chakutery board. No, I'm just joking. The roast, it was

spectacular. I enjoyed it. It was an unbelievable night. It was fucking, I mean, those things are crazy, bro. Like, I I wasn't expecting the Tom to come out there. I assume you had the... I saw Tommy. I saw Tommy. We ran lines a couple times.

I had to work them out a little. A dude wears watches, man. Yeah. That dude wears watches. Was it a $5 million watch? Something insane. I don't know why I get on these things. I get on these weird, you know,

Instagram things where it's just like, look at the Met Gallas watches. And I'm always, I'll watch every single one. I don't know dick all about watches. I don't either. They could be making these numbers up. I'm like, whoa. But Tom's, you know, some guys were like,

this is a, I'm like, $70,000 watches. And then it's Tom's wearing just, you know, normal stuff in his watch is like, uh, something by Jacob and Co. It's all fucking diamonds. It's like $10 million. $1.4 million. I'm like, all right.

But it's a dude like that uses those as an investment, like, uh, yeah, I mean, he's also. What are your thoughts on cards? Like trading, like some people are in. Trading cards? Yeah. I used to love it as a kid.

I mean, I used to go buy. Like, like, pokey. But now it's, it's become a huge commodities. are huge right now. Cycical thing. We talked about like pinnados are back in kids. But watches, like I was never, I would always consult with Tom on, I only have like three watches. And I would always consult with him because he knew, you know, hey, if you get this one, you'll maintain money. Just like you said, he makes money on all this stuff because there are pieces of art to him. And when you get access to certain, I don't know. I don't know the game.

I'm not a watch guy. I have a couple good watches. But it's good to have people who know. But it's good to have people. And shout out my boy Jeff Lifter. Shout out Lifter. We love Jeff. He's the watch guy. It's another great name. Jeff Lifter, great one.

I call him camshaft. Just to, for all our watch heads out there, the Bezell Boys, page six says, $6 million estimated. It was an off catalog Rolex sea dweller. Seedweller.

What he was wearing? Diamond infested. 18 karat white gold fully set to get cut. Square cut diamonds. I swear I went into his on the Bezellian bracelet. It's called infested. I went to.

There's just so many. It's infested with diamonds. I literally went into his green room and I got pink eye from the shine. It was so shiny his watch. I got a pink eye instantly. No, I didn't. It would have been funny. It would have been funny.

I was going to say, dude. Oh, man. Pink guy's, uh, yeah. Yeah. Mitch. He's great. Shout up pink eyes. Shout out.

Mitch, did we miss anything from this game? No. No, you guys covered it beautifully. Man. I was, I'm very. I'm very impressed with your ability to break that down. Oh,

appreciate it. Thank you for saying that, Jackie. He puts a lot of hard time into that. Yeah, and I can tell. I appreciate it. He fucking rock star.

Yeah, everyone's got their role and everyone does their role very well here. I appreciate it. The bathroom. I'm also the bathroom attendant. You'll see Matt. You'll see the social and Mitch and Matt. And then Tim over here keeps the cameras rolling.

I've been, I've been peeking over. Tim's got kind eyes. Tim's got kind eyes. I like Tim. He's cool. Let's go, baby. The first time you hear the Beatles is when you look into his eyes. Everyone, go check out Mitch's podcast in good company with Mitch Morse.

What is that podcast about? Yeah, it's just... Who's with? Who's with my buddy Casey, ha. He was with the Jags. He was a video guy. He'd been doing that with the league for a bit. And now he works for... He runs the studio for Dick Sporting Goods headquarters. They have their studio.

And so he'll be, he also does like commercials and stuff. He's a Yenzer from Pittsburgh. They're the best. I love of the Jensers, they're the best. And, you know,

what's fun is just like, he's got a good soul. For us, are, we just like to talk. Football is what we know. And we love to interview folks. And I've been so fortunate to interview folks.

I didn't even know I wanted to talk to, but I did. And it's one of this, it's about humbling experiences we talked about. And you just get lit up. Everyone's got a story to tell. And for us, we just want to have more opportunities to talk to more folks. And everything else, kind of all the other kind of cool stuff that comes with it,

I think if you do it the right way, we'll kind of come to the fold. But for us, our biggest thing is we just want to have more opportunities to talk to cooler people. I mean, in good company. And try to keep some pretty good company, dude. Amen. Conversation in good company. We love to have you on at some point. Without a doubt, I'm on.

I got to say that Labat's sponsorship is fired, too. Hey, bro, that's a dope sponsor. You know, I'm a Sam Adams guy myself, but I'll, I'll, I'll think of a little game. You know what's great? You know what's, you know what's cool? And maybe LaBette will drop me after this. But Sam Adams does have some really good seasonal, like the win, like, especially around like October. Oh, yeah.

October fest. If you like locker, I got an Edelbrough. Oh, so that you're, you're invested in the game. Yeah. I don't know. I got his own beer. I got a egg time. This is an honor.

No, we have a force. Our city, what is it? It's our city, our, Derek White. Our city. Our city. Yeah, our beer. Now, LaBatt's one is our first, you know, is the first company that gave us any, gave us their blessing and gave us a little backing.

And they've been so great. And they're really just like, do your thing. And they're going to have us up. It couldn't be more perfect because. It was perfect. Lyman and beer. It just, it's like fucking pigs and shit. Yeah, that is.

Yeah. You just give a limine a beer or not a beer. You got to give them like a 24 or 36 pack because they drink like 15. Yeah, we like to think we do. We have fairly gentle disposition. No, yeah. But like a post game, you talk about a post game. Okay, so I know you have places to be.

And your guy's been, oh, he left. He's fine. Your guy left. But talking about those moments where you can put in pill form and you'd be a fucking billionaire, dude. we talked about not being able to sleep on a plane ride home, but like when you break, when you,

when you go on an away game, you break down after a big win. Those two hours, talking about kind of the same vein as the two hours in training camp, but those two hours after a win, you hit the showers, you go,

and like, it's even like between when they're loading the stuff up in the bus. Like the, remember the buses before you take off? Yeah. Like under the stadium, maybe the, after a win.

After, only after win. And then you, like the equipment guys maybe have snuck, you just some beers. Maybe. A couple beers. You snag one of the boxes of food that is being given to you. It's going to, it's a fart factory coming down the pipe.

Always. But you can't help it, eat it. Some of the best times were right after the game in the players lot, the linemen, they would always crack open beers and they'd just sit there and all their families. We'd be in the parking lot like we're tailgating after the game drinking a beer. That rocks. And that is a beautiful experience, especially like you have the one,

Brandon Sheriff, I don't know if the name sounds familiar. He's, in my opinion, would have been a hall of famer if he didn't spend most of his time with the Redskins. Just an absolute horse of a human.

And he would always, in my last year in Jacksonville, we would always stay in the, and he would just pack a cooler the night before. We sit there and, you have to drive home so you gotta be cognizant.

Yeah. But of course that beer for you was always Labat Blue. Always Labat. Right. It was always Sam Adams. but we could always have a beer together. Yeah, that's nice.

That's nice. That feels good, doesn't it? It's your nice. Man, had a blast, bro. Brother, I appreciate you. I appreciate you coming on, and you said you're a fan of the show. I'm always a sucker for Lyman as a former quarterback.

That's the guys that I love to hang out with the most, love to eat. They were always the coolest humans. It's been a pleasure to get to hear your story and appreciate you coming in the house, dude. Dude, I appreciate it. Let me enter your humble. abode. See how the

juice is made and also like this is like as not to pander but in the outside looking at you guys got something special. The chemistry in here's kick ass. The altoyds in the bathroom really made an impression on me. And I appreciate let me come in here and chew the fat man. This has been a blessing.

Let's go. Let's go. I appreciate your brother. It means a ton. Oh, hey, bro. It really does. What is it like to learn an NFL playbook? What's it like to learn an NFL playbook? Well, it's, it's your back when I came in, they give you the three-inch binder.

I was actually a binder back then, right? Three-inch binder, which is the big boy, or what is that, right? Three inches is huge. Three inches is a big one. It's massive, yeah. And so they would give you that, and there'd be a table of contents.

There'd be, I mean, it was laid out profession. This was the pros, you know? And you had, like, at the top, you had special teams, slots, then you had the offense install slots. And then when you get into offense install slots, that would break down to, you know, a whole bunch of things from formations, personnel groups, splits, informations. They would have protections.

They'd have all the site adjustment rules. They'd have all the hot adjustment rules. It'd have everything. Everything was broken down fundamentally. on there, on, like, you could find it in the, in the playbook. Now, it's transferred now to the iPad, which it's probably way cleaner and way awesome. And I remember we did that later in my career for the younger guys that were coming in. But I mean, it's just, it's literally like the encyclopedia of everything that the offense is about. I mean, it goes, you have, we have an example up right

here. That's exactly how it looks. It'll have the basic, And then it'll have like the defensive line. They'll have like how each play goes against each line. It'll break down each coverage. It'll break down everything that the defense does. So you can communicate. Like what did Gruden say? Recognition.

Communicate execution, RCE. Yep. So you'd have to recognize what's going on after you learned your formation personnel group split, potential motion. potential shift, like all those things. That's in the beginning. And then it goes into how things change against the defense. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a literally, it has every single bit of information that the coach will explain to you. And it's much like the textbooks when we were kids where you could read that. And if you could do that, it'd be great. But I was always a guy that

would, you know, I had to study it. I would look at it while we were the installing it while the coach was addressing the classroom, you know, you would go through your playbook and you would kind of highlight. And then for me, a lot of guys for like guys like me, receivers, the receivers always, I was a guy that used flashcards for personnel groups because there's like 60 different personnel groups. So, you know, on Rangers, that's what is said before the play. That tells everyone who they are. Rangers, the personnel group. Our Rangers in 11 personnel group were example, Danny goes to the F, I go to the Z, LaFelle's on the X, and Gronks at the Y. So there's three receivers, one tight end, and then whoever is in the backfield is in the backfield.

Then you would have regular. Regular was a 12. So then regular. Regular was a 12. So then regular. puts me at Z, LaFelle at X, and then there'd be two tight ends that would come in. So you'd have to go over that. So I would always flash card personnel groups and formations. Because if you fucked that up, you weren't getting a rep. We'll be right back after this quick break.

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anywhere just ask your smart speaker to play iHeart Pride Canada stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca I love the sounds the buzzing from the stadium the chanting from the fans the announcers calling the place

soccer football at home Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots.

We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that?

Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How often are you shifting between these? Like, so is it beginning, when do you find out that you're like the Z and Ranger? Or that's how often does that change? That's how often does I find that out through the coaches?

Like weekly? Weekly. So if they'll give you a group of personnel groups that we're going to highlight this week, we're going to use these six, these six personnel groups. Rangers, sub, half, and, uh, another one. Regular or something? No, regular is a two. Those are all 11 personnel groups.

Okay. So these are all, these could be the same. This is, there's three receivers, one tight end and one running back. Like regular, uh, sub half rangers, uh, army, Marines. Those, those tell like every guy, which spot they have to go into. So you could make a play for a guy instead of changing the whole concept, you could just change the personnel group. group. So if you're trying to get what's is, you're trying to get Danny at the F, instead of putting

him at the F, you just change the personnel group and say, now Danny goes, you know what I mean? Right. That makes sense. And then tag it from there. Tag it from there. You would never tag. You just say Rangers. Okay. And that would put, that would tell everyone where we all go. I'm at F. He's at Z. He's at X. All right. And half. I'm at, I'm at, I'm at F. He's at Z. Half again. I'm at F. But maybe half and sub. Everyone's in the same spot, but the tight ends change. There's a new tight end in. You know what I mean? So the personnel groups are fucking,

they were a bitch to learn. I was going to say. Then there's a formations. So then the formations, they would break it down. All right, guys, we'll have these eight formations and these personnel groups, and then we could have these seven empties.

And empties were, you know, whenever, you know, the quarterback is empty and there's five guys on the line of scrimmage. Five, receivers. And so like you'd have to learn where, what each formation was because you'd have to put the F in here. The X goes outside. Like if you're an empty and it was just a whole lot of studying.

And so once you got those down, then you'd have to learn defenses because when you things could change or, no, then you learn your concepts. So you go personnel groups, formations, and then you learn concepts. There was concepts that were two-man concepts. then there was three-man concepts. So like Reed. Reed was an in-cut from by one, and number two has an option route to the outside.

And so conceptually, you were trying to high-low this backer. So that's Reed. Now, a three-man concept, or ICE is another one. Ice was where this guy has an in-cut and this guy has a cross-rout so that you'd learn those two-mans. And there would be three-man concepts and so you're basically learning how you're building in your mind how the quarterback calls the play. So first thing you're going to hear is personnel group.

Then you're going to hear formation. Then you've got to learn your protections because after your formations and concepts, you've got to learn the protections because the protections could, it could change your route. If you are a side adjusting or if you're depending on if you can get it protected, the receivers would have to know because if it's only a five-man protection, there could be a hot and a side adjustment if you're in an empty. So you'd have to see where the mic point is and communicate with the quarterback.

The quarterback was set, he would set the protection. He go, Mike 52, which is the front side backer. You go, check easy, check easy. We're going to Mike 54. He'd change the protection and he would look at me and he'd say, Jules. So that makes him the mic. He's the mic. He's the will. Or the will, or the Sam. And then the next guy would be a different slot, the Jack, you know, to Jack. And so then he would look at me and say these two. If those two guys came, if he said two,

then I'd have to break my side adjustment. Now, if he looked at me, Tom could look at me and he could say, hey, Jules. If he did that, that means one or the other. other. If any one of those guys come, you got to break. All right. But if he said to it, you got to go when the two guys come. And sometimes they would come and one guy would jack out. So you'd have to get on route. All right. And then so another one, he can look at you and he could sit there and you see your guy on your face coming. But Tom would change protection all the way over here.

So he'd make that guy the mic who's on over me, the star or whatever. And he he would sit there and you go, Jules, you're locked. So if he, regardless, no matter what, whoever came, you're locked on the route. So that's when you'd have to study your protections. So you go personnel group, formations, concepts, protections. And that's kind of, then you'd break into how defense was involved. So if you're locked on the route, that means you run the route. No matter what, it's the play call route.

You run it as it's drawn up. Okay. You mentioned site adjustment? And what, explain the... Hot is to the strong side. Okay. So when the Sam, Mike and Sam come, that's a hot. Okay.

The side adjustments to the weak side. So it'd be like a will and a weak safety. So like if this guy, if... So you have your Mike, Sam, Will, right? You always see the quarterback making the point. A little strong week, yeah. So what he can do is though he could change. Well, we always think that this guy's the...

right, because he's near the tight end and the strong side of the passing strength. Yeah. Well, he could change and make that guy the mic. Yeah. So then it would make him the mic, the guy to the right of him, who is the star, would be the Sam. Yeah. Meaning that the lion can get it protected. And then this guy who we think is that looks like the Mike is now the will.

Okay. So the lion could take care of the Mike, Will, and Sam. You know, that's when other guys get involved, that's when side adjustments and hot, hot get involved. So then side adjustment is like a... To the weak side. It's to the weak side. It's a changing the route

based off of the formation. A hot and a side adjust could be the same kind of thing for the receiver, but it's just telling which side they go. So if it's to the passing strength, that's a hot. If it's to the passing... So if I'm sitting here,

right? And we got, we make him the mic. He's the Sam. So whoever comes off here, you're hot. So you're going to feel that space where they were. Depending on what the hot is. It could be a burst. You have to like a five-yard hitch, full speed.

You can't lolly-gag it because then they sniff that and they'll break. So you've got to come off the ball hard every time. That was like the number one coaching point to any kind of side adjustment or hot. You got to come off because defense is fucking smart. Oh, yeah. You know, they'll sniff that bullshit out if you come lolly-gagging off and then they break and it's a pick six. Because they got a guy coming to that area. but if you're sprinting, that guy doesn't know where you're going.

So he would be all scared and he'll be less hesitant or less aggressive to break. So getting back, strength is hot. So to our strong side, right? So this guy, we make him the mic. Anyone come off that, Sam, you're hot. Anyone coming off the will, you're citing. And then you just have to read if they're coming. Well, depend, yeah.

Yeah. We have to, but the quarterback in our system, we had Tom Brady. So he was the ultimate reminder. And he, when he was dishing out his protections and getting stuff, he would tell you. And the good quarterbacks do that. If you look at like Peyton Manning and all those boys, they would sit there, all right, I'm locking you. I'm locking you.

Because he changed a protection. And it's, it's a fat. The protections are the most fascinating things. That's why offense alignment, like they have, not only do they, have to be choreographed in such a great manner together as one, like they're dancing, but they have to be able to see shit, body language of the guys,

they got to be able to break down the defensive fronts, because things change. The protections change if there's a three down or a four down. That's when we got to start, you know what I mean, but that's more of the defensive offensive line. You really only need to know the backers. Now, if it's a run play,

are you a part of the protection call to, Or how does that, how does that work? So run play on certain run plays, uh, depending on the mic call, you would always have like the six man in the box. Right. So the sixth man on the box or is it the seventh?

It'd either be the strong, the strong safety coming down or the star. Or it would be that corner. If that, if that, if one of the safeties dropped into the box, you'd be responsible if it was a six or seven. Scott Chattio's going to kill me.

So, but a lot of the times if the court's on certain plays, run plays, the quarterback would lock you on, on your guy over your face because they have a line, like on a trap play or something, you wouldn't come down to get the force because we're having a lineman coming and pull to get him or the line is adjusting

up to that guy. You know, you'd always, for the most part of, Most of the time for receivers, they're blocking skill guys, safety's corners. Now, when you see the guys on the bunches, the receivers on the bunch, a lot of times you're seeing with like the Lions, San Francisco, they'll have their receiver, St. Brown, he'll set the edge and he'll take out at the end and then they'll pull the tackle and the guard on those toss traps, but like that's, those are like one-off plays and they'd have to be condensed down.

You're not really going in and getting linebackers because that's usually for the line. There are certain occasions where like in Seattle, the Seattle Super Bowl on the backside of this, I forgot the run play, but there was a backside play where I would go up and I, I, I, the linebacker would be in my face and I would, go up and go to the safety, like, and you could fully get them. But then there would be times where they could lock you, and you'd have to just get in the,

if you're on the back side, you'd have to get in his way and get in his way to cut them off for the front side of the run. But most of the time you're playing, you're going against the smaller guys, unless it's one of those specialty plays. The playbook, I mean, this and everything, for the offensive line,

and you have everyone's, you have all of it. You have all of it. Okay. So you could go through the offensive line part and see, you know, the shades. Because, like, they have a bunch of stuff on, like, on, you know, they divide the guy, one, two, three, what shades they are. And you could learn all that, you know, the, I mean, it's, it's like an encyclopedia of everything,

fundamentally. They have, in your playbook, they have a whole section on just your, the cadence and the snap counts. Wow. You know what I mean? The going on two, going on three, color this, color that, you know, gold calls or, you know, to change plays. There's an audible section. How you, every way to communicate anything, it was in the playbook. That's incredible.

You know. If you got, say how much was getting added during, like, say you install a play from week six. Those are all the fundamentals. Now, once you get in, this is, this is all training camp. Right, right. And there's a lot of his test to see who can retain what. And you won't even have to get, if you listen to the coaches, you're not just going to sit there and be a guy that, I mean, they're smart guys that'll sit there and read the playbook and they can digest it. But if you go along with the coaching, you know, that'll, that'll help you the most.

If you're paying attention to class, you don't have to read the book. You don't have to go do homework. Yeah. Well, it's good to reference it. For sure. You know what I mean? It's just like school. It's fucking just like school.

That's crazy to think. There's some guys that can sit there and read the formations and do it. I mean, I had to put them on flashcards and concepts. And me and Hoyer would sit and bounce them off of each other. Because, you know, when you're young football player, a lot of the, a lot of the evaluation of you is how much you can retain. Oh, how much can you take from the classroom to the drills to the team periods? that's like that's the huge like one of the biggest evaluation processes of these young football players

because once you get to the reg to get to your point once you get to the regular season okay you that's all fundamental now new plays game plan plays come in and so you're going to have to be able to install a 10 15 new plays each week potentially on what that team's weaknesses are are those getting sheets to go into the playbook those yeah so each week on a Wednesday. So you have your big-ass book and then when you come in, then you get back in the day, they would give you sheets just like those sheets. And you'd have all your past concepts on there, all your run concepts, the install for that week's prep. And so some of it could carry over to some of the stuff that we already learned in training camp and in the install, but some of it can be

completely new and completely different. But if you lean, on your fundamentals of what you've learned in training camp, you'd be able to communicate and understand it because it'll still be this. It could be the same, it'll be the same language, but it could be a different concept or a different protection or a different personnel group that's incorporated into it. So it's just like finding out the puzzle. So to simplify the playbook, the organization of it, you mentioned personnel, you mentioned formation, protection, concepts. Concepts. You'd have snap counts.

Snap counts. That's usually at the beginning. You'd have splits for receivers. What is that? Splits are, so in certain formations, in certain plays, and certain concepts. So like on a, say ice,

if you're the outside receiver, which ice is an in-cut and a crosser, if you're the outside receiver on ice, you have to have a plus four split from the number. Yards? Yes. Then there was also a plus two split on certain concepts. Then there was sometimes there was a minus two split. And then when you get into like certain formation buzzwords like nasty, nasty tells everyone that you're condensed. So then you'd have those in the playbook on buzzwords for, uh, buzzwords for formation splitting. you'd have, then you'd have a whole section on movement. So movement is shifts and motions.

So for us, if you heard, if there, if the suffix was I-N-G-ing, then you're coming in. If the suffix was AP app, you're coming across. So if you're the F and you hear Fing, you're just coming in for a pass play. Oh, because the thing is F-I-N-G. The F-I-N-G. So if you hear Zing, the Z-E-Is coming in. Ying. So Z-ing.

What if you're F-H-F-F-F-P? You're going the other-W-A-R-B. You're going the other-W-F-P? FAP, because it's AP, right? FAPP would be a cross for a block, blocking, for a run play. FAP. If it's FAC-AC-A-C, then you're going across for a past play or something.

Okay. Then there was Z-Z-Z-Z-E, ZIG IG, you hear a lot of that with the slot. That's going into the guard and back out. So that's a formation indicator. You're seeing what kind of coverage you can get. Then there would be the Y shift. All that's telling you is when you hear your letter and shift,

you're starting on the other side and you're shifting over and we're resetting the play to that. If you hear H home, that's just telling the home is one of those buzzwords for a shift for the H. Home, he's coming from all the way outside the receiver back into the home spot. So there'd be a whole freaking table of content or what is it, a chapter on that. Yeah. You know, so I mean, it goes into everything. What else beyond that?

I want to hear all the different segments. There was Fing, FAC, there was. There was a fing, fap, Zieg, or Zig. There was Z shift. Then there was H home. You could use all the other letters for that. You have, and I'm probably missing one. Yeah, that's, you'd have, and there was probably a couple others.

Then there was, there would be, what was this, there was a fast one, a, like a fast, like a fast. motion. We started doing that. Oh, that's that Mike McDaniel. Mike McDaniel. There'd be the fast. It's like a rabbit zing or there's, there are certain buzzwords for that. If I heard it, I would, I'd be able to do it.

What other like chapters outside of like movement? So we got personnel formation, protection concept, snap count splits, movements. Movements and motions. We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio, Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must-have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists,

like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate, love. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. I love the sounds. buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place, soccer, football, at home.

Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great.

A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that.

As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So it's like it's a misnomer that there's actual plays in the playbook. Well, then you go concepts. And then concepts. Then concepts in routes.

So then you'd have, you'd have every single route, you know, like a go route, a in-cut. Then there was the 14-yard in-cut, the 12-yard in-cut, the 20-yard-in-cut. There was, you know, there was a stopper route, which is a 25-5. yard like comeback but you break you open in and come back down the line there was a comeback at 16 there was a comeback at 14 there was a 10 yard out there was a five yard out or you know six to 12 usually you know you have your slot routes which were you know then there's tosser two two slants there's hook which is a three man concept the three has the hook the hook the

Two has the diagonal, it's something that you always see, and the guy has an M-O-R, which is must outside release, go on the outside. I mean, we're going off to just the knowledge of my brain and, you know. A lot of knowledge, maybe. I mean, how, see, I'm always curious going back to a lot of these. Like, some of these often don't ID the mic is crazy to me. I think a lot of them do.

It's just who, depending on who's identifying the mic. Okay. It's either, sometimes it's the center. Yeah. And a lot of systems, like a lot of the younger quarterbacks in the West Coast systems from what I've been told. Right. What I heard, the center makes the call. Okay.

That makes sense. But then, and then you hear some of these ones where, like, I mean, of course the Patriots are the outlier here and what you know more than anybody. But, like, how simplistic are some of these off? Like, you know what I mean? You hear some of these where, like, a guy comes from, like, a really simple system. And it's like, how different is that? From, like, the most simple NFL one to, like, the Patriots. I would say simpler offenses are just offenses that don't try to get into the right play

and call a play and run that play. And there's no adaptation to that play according to what the defense is doing. Which do exist in the year 2026 in the NFL. Which do exist. Okay, that's crazy. I mean... Isn't that the whole thing with the Patriots offense? But sometimes when you got guys, so that's the fine line.

Right. when you got guys what a coach's job is to do is to make the player play as fast as he can and sometimes when you flood the guy's minds with too much then they're thinking they're not going to be able to play totally so you know it's harder to get a lot of these complex

advantages and complexities of change during play during pre-snap during post-snap because a lot you know then a lot of guys got to be on the same page at the same time. And sometimes a lot of teams don't have the luxury of that guy gets hurt, young guys on offense, young quarterback can't get it up. Like that, that's very hard to do.

Right. So personnel is going to dictate so much of that. Personnel dictates what you can do. That makes total sense. Was there a specific player concept when you first started that just fried your brain or just couldn't, it was the hardest one to grasp? They used to have this thing called the wiggle route. and I used to hate it.

And West was really good at it. The wiggle route was like, in a West Coast system is called like the basic. The basic is they would do like, but it was different than the basic. The basic is like a 12-yard incut. It's usually the slot guy. He runs a 12-yard speed in-cut and he goes.

Well, the wiggle route was kind of like that 10 to 12-yard incut. And you could, but a verse man, you had to break it down and give him something, at the top and break flat to downhill if it was one man. If it was cover five, which is two man, you could run the end cut, but if he was walling you off, you could pull it out. All right.

And then if it was zone and it was to Tampa, you would find the zone. So there was like three different things. And I always struggled on like the cover five one. I don't know because I always wanted to whip it out but if you could win in you could keep it going and there's a lot of indecision and that's the worst thing for a quarterback to see in a route

so you know what I mean so you had three routes and you know it took me time to like figure out how to do it to the wiggle route the old wiggle and then there was like the queue route which is kind of like

the outside version which the old cue was if it was rolled, rolled meaning covered two. You had, this guy was letting you go and there's a half field safety. You run, you know, you run the bow route where you get inside. You reset your vertical stem to about 14. And then you hit a high 7 and let the quarterback flatten you in between the half field safety in the flat zone defender, right, versus cover three.

It was like a, I think it was like a curl route. And then if it was man, if it was man, you press, you had to get inside and then you'd run and then you'd hit like an inside stutter where you could take it. It's almost like a post corner. It was the same kind of three routes with in one route according to coverage. And it was before like I was comfortable reading coverage post.

I mean, I was always actually pretty good at reading coverage. It was just the running of the route for me. And being able to make them all look the same and not dictating. Because like these DBs, man, they know they're bullshit readers. But you know, baby, Pacino.

You know what I mean? They could feel if you're, if you're hesitating at something, they feel it and they break and they make the plays. They're, they're extraordinary athletes. Was there a moment where you feel like it clicked or like when you felt like, I can actually use my physicality versus my, like, became instinct versus like thinking through it? I mean, I would say after like my third, my third, my third, my. third year, like it was just clicking in spurts, kind of like my golf game. You know what I mean? And then by year three, you know, I had enough reps of actual feeling it in practice, you know,

doing it in the offseason with Tom. You know, the amount of reps that I had at that point helped me because I felt every situation at that point. You weren't topping the ball or slicing that thing in the woods. Yeah. And I got one last question. Unless you got anything else. I think to Kyler's last question, a quick follow-up, but like at what point,

not only were you grasping that thing, were you and Tom like mind-melded, like full his brain's my brain? Like we're seeing the field the exact same way. So like probably year five. Okay. That figured something like that. Or five.

When Wilker left. Right. Get those extra first team route. Yeah, that. And it was, you know, he had to start trust of me. It's hard for the, those guys, you know, when you have a guy, when you're a quarterback, you know, and regardless,

water flows downhill. Water flows downhill. One other one, Guy, I swear, I was trying to look this up over here. I swear, I remember, maybe my mind's playing tricks on me. I swear someone on the Patriots left their playbook at the hotel on the road in like a preseason game against a $5,000 fine. $5,000 fine. I was just going to ask.

What's a penalty? It could be conduct detrimental. That could be like a 35,000 or not. Wow. Yeah. Because you'd bring on the road with you, right? Oh, yeah. And that thing.

But when you're in, when you're like now with the iPads and stuff. When do they switch to the iPad? I want to say like my fourth year. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. Third fourth year. Or Microsoft Surface.

Service. Damn. But the thing is, with the iPads, they have more power. The team. Oh. So they would collect iPad, like, during camp and shit, they would collect the iPads after games or during games.

You know what I mean? They would collect, there would be a fucking big ass like home thing, and you'd have to go and turn your iPad, and, you know, there'd be a coach coming to, hey,

you don't, you didn't turn your iPad and. It can update stuff better to, or they could just wipe you. They can also keep track of how much you're using. Oh, they keep track of how much you're using. Big brother.

Oh, gosh. Can you go to, like, websites and stuff on it or no? No. Oh, it's pretty long. I mean,

my boy Jared had mine, my shit. I had my jail break. Shout out. Angry birds on there. No, I just, you know what jail broke was?

Me being able to look at the news. There we go. Like the fact that I can look at the news. We couldn't even get on Google. Oh, my God. You'd be there getting on news and be like, oh, shit, hell yeah. Get to see some articles. Just reading, keep it up with the world, baby.

That's hilarious. And one last question. So you were a quarterback in college. And then so now, though, the playbook, with the iPads, it's so awesome because you could go through all your thing and then you could see it. You could press a button and see an example of the play. Yeah. Oh, with the footage. Oh, that's huge.

Yeah. So, yeah. So it's a little bit more of like a multimedia experience. It's insane now. You have it all on your iPad. So you were a quarterback in college. Do you remember like, remember a specifically complicated play from your time at Kent State? You know, I've been trying to do that.

And I remember like, I don't remember the plague calling, but it was a West Coast. So there was like 84. I'd have a protection or 73 or I'd have a 60s, there were 60s, 70s and 80s. 80s were like, I was fully protected. And there'd be some like kind of get open, wide, shallow look. It was like a West Coast spread. I've really, I got to call up old Dougie fresh. Who should get him on the show?

Doug Martin. Yeah, I should. Shout out. We should. I think he's at Elon right now. Let's go, baby. Let's make a trip down to Elon.

Let's go over to Burlington, North Carolina and pull up on him. His wife's, she used to kill it in the real estate world. She's like killing it. She's probably running Burlington right now. Probably. I love it.

Hustling. Shout out. You don't remember like a play call? Like you, I just remember, I remember the concept. I remember my favorite concept was poker. I don't remember like,

because, dude, after hearing all, it just gets wiped out. It gets wiped because I've heard And then I remember doing that, but like, because early in my, my, early in my, my career, the protections were messing with me because 70s, we used to have a thing called SCAT protection, whereas five man protection only. And that was the same as like your, your 70s protection.

So like I had a lot of that where 80s was the same as my 60s in college. So then I kind of wiped it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Give us a quick John Gruden-esque play call? I don't really, I mean. Like from the Patriots. From the Patriots, you could go like sub, home, home to Fing, home, it could be home, F right, Finging, right, 134, Fbo, ICE, alert, ride 130 or alert 34, alert 34, gapper or something.

or you could, the thing is, it gets wordy when you would get like two or three play calls. So all you got to do is say two fucking plays, alert. And so, and by the time you're in it, when I hear the play call when Tom would say, I heard,

I would hear the protection, I'd hear the concept. And then there'd be a couple buzzwords. You know, you're sitting in the huddle. You hear, all right, all right,

I got a thing, right. You know what I mean? No, that's when you're like, and how to say the play would be in the playbook. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like right there. Home, what I say, I told you, the H started out. Home to F right. So wherever he is, we got to get to F right, which is the formation. And then Fing, telling me to Fing in, ride 134, which is the protection, play action. F, bow, ICE, alert, ride 130 or alert 34, alerting to just the run. If it was two safeties. You know, I mean...

You got a wayboard... I'm not a fucking... I love that. I was never like a... I mean, I... You know, I was never like... You hear all these backup quarterbacks like Hoydog and Orlowski, like those guys,

they could recite their whole thing because they were communicating it. Yeah. You know what I mean? When... And I remember that struggle from when I turned to quarterback to receiver, hearing a play was different than saying the play.

Yeah. Like, it took... took me a while to learn how to hear the play and know what to do than when I used to when you say the play. Yeah, for sure. It is, it's so stupid for me, but I mean,

the backup quarterbacks, they were always like, they had to know everything. Yeah, and they're getting mental reps like crazy. They're getting mental reps. You're not out there running a slant with a clipboard in your hand. Yeah.

And, you know what I mean? And when she get out, I mean, if I were to go back for, like, that's why I love going back. You know,

you go to the Patriots. go to their meeting, like they let me come sit in on their meetings. Rable let me sit in or whoever the coaches were at the time that I've gotten to sit in on all of them. That's when it refreshes. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, oh shit.

Okay, now they're doing this. You know, and Josh, getting to sit in Josh meetings. Oh, yeah. McDaniels, you know, I could, he, allow, you could see where the, the, the, the, the, the, the, play callings evolve because now that they're making them less wordy and they're having buzz words tell like a lot of guys what to do. So it could be like only three words, but those three words could be protection concept.

That's cool. Seeing that evolution's got to be crazy. Yeah. And then we'd have like a NASCAR package in the playbook where it would be that where one word would tell everything. So that would be a lot of the things when we were installing like weekly.

The coaches would say, you know, all right, we're going to do these four NASCAR plays and they'd break them in. we'd only do it for like those three days or two days. And then they, they would say, all right, we're adding four more NASCAR plays. So they'd expect you to, you have to already know those ones. And so you're at eight by week, you know, day five. And then after day seven, they'd give you four more NASCAR plays.

So you're building your book. You're building, you know, that's how they would install it, you know. And so just for the audience, NASCAR is like a hurry up. NASCAR would be no huddle. And then the play calls like one word and you have to know. One word. Everyone goes. Like you have to know of it.

What's a word? Like Jordan was like a Jordan. Jordan. It wasn't Barclay one too? Barkley was. What was Barclay? Barkley was Charlie Sheen. So the Charlie,

Charlie program was a certain protection. So we had Charlie Sheen. We had Charles Barkley. You got to know you're Charlie. I love it. Yeah. Charlie McCarton. I love it.

Riley Wilson, which was stopper. You know, on the outside, he was the best stopper of all time. We have Jordan. We had Ollie, which was, those were our like go-toos that we could always run. It was a fundamental play. It was empty, right, or bonsai right, Haas Z juke, which is, you know, Haas, and the Z has a juke route. Jordan would be to the right.

Ali would be the same play on the left. you know you'd have we had Jordan and then there'd be like man I'm gonna get exposed for not knowing my play You know these things And like this is like you guys were lining up

Or like you're going from We can run a play You're running up He Jordan Jordan Jordan Jordan Tom or Tom We'd be like Jordan Yeah NASCAR NASCAR Jordan

Everyone get to the line of scrimmage Everyone know what to do So like someone like Ray Lewis That might have a lot of experience Against you guys Might have some film Might have some tape On like some of these NASCAR plays

could. Yeah. But if you're going fast, they can know what you're doing. But you still got to execute. You still got to execute. That was my thing. Those,

this goes after. And then you could go Jordan. He could go, Jordan, Jordan. And we'd all set up in bonsai. And then he could sit out there and look at us and give us hook. He could,

and we'd all have to look. And if he goes like that, then it changed all three of us what to do. There was nonverbal comms. Or you could go, what you could do is we call a play in the huddle and you can go, Xerox, Xerox, Xerox. and Xerox meant same exact

same exact formation and there was no play making copies and so you're making copies and you go sit there and there'd be no plays and then all of a sudden he would get us into a play based off of how they line up of how they played so tight that was called molasses that would be in the pre

there would be a pre snap a pre snap menu which motions and all that cadence molasses was there was no play call Mo Mo, so he could sit there All right, it's on Mo, it's on Mo. You had to hear gold color

or like the buzz color for the play to be in. So he could sit up there and this is how you try to get the defense to, you know, kind of show what they were doing. He'd up there, why 20? Why 20? Had hot, hot, hot.

Hard, all right, right. Black 88. Like 88. That hot, hot, hot. So sometimes. And then you go. Gold 30. Gold tells everyone plays on. Gold 30 said, oh, that rocks.

Even on those like hard cuts, there might not even be a play call. There could be not a audible out of it. Just let's see what you got. Let's see what you. We're just trying to get a tell out of the defense. How often does that happen in a game? I mean, depending on the defense you were playing, who's a disguised defense. Man, if John Gruden just heard you do that, oh, the hair on the back of his neck would stand up.

Why? 20s. Hot. How long, I mean, great call, baby. You wouldn't know. but how often do you think like McDaniels is in Brady's ear? He's in there until 15 seconds.

So that's why a lot of a NASCAR. So that's why that's, so when you got to say you have a really good defensive line. We'll be right back after this quick break. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR Radio.

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Wait, so Luke was the son of Vader. And Vader was turned by Rupal? Yeah, well, somebody's heard of some old, old, old wick. Learn to love yourself unapologetically with BFF, Black Fat Fem, and start your day with intention with waking up with Ryan coming in July. Celebrate Pride with the outspoken network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Pride and listen now. And what NASCAR would do is NASCAR, if you could run out of a sub, which is three receivers or you could run it out of regular.

but that's hard because then you got guys going in different spots, right? So when you have a good defensive line, fast guys, NASCAR, what it does is it doesn't allow them to substitute. We're just huge. And you can go fast. And so if you get to the line of scrimmage, you get to the line of scrimmage with the most time as you possibly can, then Tom and Josh can communicate until 15.

So as soon as the other play is done, the 40 clock starts. That's a lot of time to talk. 40 o'clock starts, right? So if you're done, say it's a long play down field, then everyone gets to the line of scrimmage. You use your NASCAR term, all right, we're going, Jordan. All right, we're going, Charles Barkley, Charles Barkley.

Everyone gets into Charles Barkley. You're there with 28 seconds. You've got 14 seconds. If you got there in 10 seconds or 12 seconds, everyone gets to line scrimmage by 15 seconds, you got 10, 12 seconds to communicate with Josh. So then they could sit there. Tom can't talk.

to him, but he can hear him. You know, so then we used to do like muddle huddles. I love that. Muddle is kind of like a fast huddle where we're not getting back to the huddle. We're kind of getting back and we're getting near the line of scrimmage and we're yelling out NASCAR terms. But it's not NASCAR. NASCAR means we're going fast.

Yeah. So muddle huddle is different than NASCAR. That would be in the pre pre. It's so, it'd be so crazy. The gold term, you have like the buzz terms and black 88. Black 88 would be on three. Full master class right now. You're saying the kids at Phillipsandover with Ernie are fucked.

No, because good coaches. Simplify. They know how to simplify. Good coaches simplify. And a lot of the evaluation of training camp is to try to get guys to be anxious about how much there is, to see how much they can handle. And see that, hey, you don't have to know all this.

where if you listen to the coaching staff, you know, this is what we're going to go over, learn those, you know what I mean? It's all part of everything. The evaluation process of how you're building your team. 100%.

But like to go back to what we said earlier, it's all about like personnel dictates so much of this. Like when you got, when it was you and Dolan, Gronk and Jojo and it was just clicking and you guys could go no huddle so often. Oh, that was the best. That was like the strength of,

you know, with Chris Hogan and Malcolm Mitchell and Dol. and Dolah. Like, we weren't like the most explosive group, but the strength of that team was the smart.

Everyone was on the same team. Everyone was smart. It's the beauty of the Earhart Perkins is when everyone's got it. Everyone's, everyone was on the same page at all times. That was the best to watch. Oh, God, I loved it.

Man, that was awesome. Guys, keep, keep tossing these in there. You know, we should do people, leave comments on YouTube. maybe we'll get a whiteboard and like pick up a playup I gotta get my playbook I have a playbook so maybe we should just expose it oh fire let's go speaking of exposing in playbooks I always think back to that uh like when you go ahead you remember when Chris uh Chris Cooley got in trouble in the early days of like Instagram he took a picture was like in the preseason like crack and open the playbook

and he was studying the playbook naked so you could see is like the tip of his chunk in the Instagram picture like three like penis related yeah Chris Cooley what a wild man keep going though sorry jules who's Chris Cooley? He was a tight end for like the Redskins for a little while. I remember he was actually a good play. 47 I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know why that's in my taking up space in my brain. Yeah. So it's. Three inch binder. Yeah. That was a good one. Put in the three inch and three inch binder.

Oh, that was awesome. Let's do more that. That's fun. Keep sending these. We love pulling back the curtain, man. Because that was playbook, but that got into a lot of different stuff.

And I've always want to know how you don't answer it. We'll do another time. But like, how you know personnel from the sidelines when to go in and how that works. signals. Yeah. I'm with you. I'd be so bad at that.

And that goes into like you practice. That's what practices for. You know, like all the receivers are in with the receiver coach on the sideline. All the running backs are with the running backs. And you have to practice those things. Your communication coming in the field with your signal. There were certain signals half your sub army army.

We all had signals at receiver, which probably changed. change, you know, but... Right, you have to cycle through anything that's going to be on tape, signals and whatnot. You know what, but like, it didn't really change that often. Really? So, like...

One of those things, like, that's our best shot. Man against man, we're going to beat you. I mean, yeah, I don't know. The personnel groups. Man, what a game. 13-second game. All-timer. All-timer.

All-timer. Thanks again to Mitch Morris. It was fun to hear his perspective because he was on both those teams. Takes a big man to come in here and talk about that loss. It takes a big man. Respect, bro. What a guy. Likes pain.

He does. He does. Just like us. Hey, he's one of us, baby. Man. And that's been another episode of Games with Names. Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast, comment a game you want us to do.

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