Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - NFL Cornerbacks Explain Technique and Film Study

Episode Date: June 14, 2026

Legendary NFL Cornerbacks including Patrick Surtain II, Aqib Talib, Ty Law, Charles Woodson, and Pacman Jones explain technique and film study for pro football defensive backs.Support the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? And it's beautiful. The guys are young and cute and fit. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad.

It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. Listen to American Football on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history.

I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio, nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7.

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Have a great day. Welcome to games with names. I'm Julian Edelman, and we got a brand new compilation highlight reel starting now. Now, Patrick Sertan on the importance of technique playing cornerback. You're such a technician in your game. Yeah. Like you look like a pro. You're never out of phase.

You always have your feet. Coach Saban, you know, shout out. Always have your feet. You're always in position. You never miss your fucking off-ham jam. Is that something your dad brought to? What's your dad teach you about this game that, because you look like your miles ahead at such a young age.

You're only like your fifth year, fourth year, you know what I mean? Yeah. How do you look like such a veteran? What did pops teach you? It's sort of like a nuance to the DB position, just patience. I learned going through. through because it was quite an adjustment, like, not reacting to everything that the receiver was doing and sort of having, sort of like, you like a monk, just being patient and just sitting

there because once you start, like, trying to move out the receiver and let the receiver dictate everything, that's when you start to get erratic and you lose your technique and your fundamentals. One thing that I learned was, like, pretend like you're in a box, like you're in this frame and receive we got to either go one way or the other and you got to just stay in that box and force them to go either direction and that's why I just started to learn you know being patient

you know and you know offhand jamming with something I learned just like in high school and sort of just sticking with that and staggered feet though are the feet staggered when you offhand jam I would have saw it would have been studying the offhand jam

oh no I'm staying square usually that DB when he gets now high of hand jam you see his feet like like this, ha. Okay, yeah, you knew this coming. You can't, you can't do that. Because like you said, dudes like you would catch on to that.

But you sort of got to mix it up. You know, you got to have a toolbox, you know, fake a quick jam, tough jam, quick jam and all that. I feel like that's got to be in your arsenal. Because receivers nowadays, it's so good. It's just like you've got to mix it up.

You got to just fine tune your craft each and every day. But Pops definitely, I learn a lot from Pops along the way. for sure. Yeah. Next up, Akeeb Talib on what he learned from Ronde Barber

with film and technique. What did you learn from Ronde? How to watch tape. Ronde really taught me how to set my notebook up and how to watch tape. Like, I won't watch it no motherfucking tape. How do you watch tape?

I watch it first, second down, through personnel. So I watch 21 personnel. I'm either going to be on the single receiver side or the tight-end side. And single receiver side, I watch the tape and if I keep seeing a route recur, reoccur, reoccur, I'm writing it down.

So on the single receiver side, stop route, slant, fade. If I see it route one time, I ain't writing it down. On the tight end, on the tight end receiver side, I'm going to just write down what route keep on coming up. And I had the top three routes. Ten yards out. Anything else, I'm just playing football. But I'm going to know, okay, they're 21 personnel, boom.

They break, tight end on my side. Slamp fade hitch or whatever. My three routes, them are the three routes that I'm anticipating. If you run something else, then I'll be a cornerback. I'll be a professional cornerback and I react to it. But I just go through every formation like that, 21, then 12, then 11 on early downs.

Then I go third down. 11, 12, then a bunch. If they're in bunch, they do these. Like, I just, it's a big test, bro. I just write down the routes and these formations. and then when y'all break the huddle, y'all come out in this formation, it's like I'm taking a test. If I can't think of shit, I just play my technique.

But if I got an idea, oh, he can run this overall. Usually I'm right, because you know how offense is. Y'all do, it's just like playing the game. Y'all going to do what the fuck y'all do, right? We could turn the matting on right now. You're going to run your shit. You've been running against everybody you've ever been playing. You feel me?

It's the same. So it's a big test, man. You got to put that time in and memorize this shit and be able to go to it as they break the huddle and shit. So that's how I watched tape. Ronde taught me how to organize my notebook. Listen, first second down, 10, 11, 12, 21. Third down is probably going to be 11 or 12.

Red zone. Get your top concepts. Take them away. Besides that, be a pro. Play ball. Have your premium looks. These they best plays. They run these plays every fucking week.

If they run these plays, I'm picking it. How them premium looks? shit. Ronde put me on that. Man. Shout out Ronde. Shout out Ronde. What kind of guy was Ronde? He was a straight pro guy? Rondeh was a pro man. Just, you know, never late. Never miss a day. Never sick. Like, how the fuck you never sick? Like, you ain't got a cold or nothing right there? Like, goddamn. He got a robin tossing. You feel me? Hey, he just, man, just a pros, pro man. Got a, got the, got the woman who take

care of his body put me on on to her. Like, just a real pro's pro. You know, I caught him in, and later, years as well. So just a real pro pro man. Next, Pac-Man Jones on who the real lockdown corners are in the NFL. That's like a real corner. Lockdown. Lockdown. And can return points. Who are the lockdown corners right now that are man coverage corners? Well, you gotta say Patrick Sertainer. Patrick Sertan. He's a dog. He's long, though. I like the kid from the Panthers.

Jackson or the other one The other one Who just got paid All their money Horn right J.C. Horn? J.C. Horn?

J.C. Horn. I like him. I should have known that. I'm a analyst. Them are my talk to Gonzalez. I like Stingley. Stingley is really good.

Lasseter is too. They got two really good corners. Stingley is a dog. Gonzo Gonzalez for the Patriots he's just he's pretty.

He's athletically there. Yeah. He still needs to learn how he uses hands. But that guy, he sticks on dudes. There's some good corners. It is. There's some good corners. Some bad ones too.

What do you think about these playoffs right now? It's up in the air, but you know how it is, bro. If you get higher at the end of the season, I think the most dangerous team right now are the Texans. Texans? Yeah. Now, Patrick Sertan on the cornerbacks that he modeled his game after. Who are some of the guys you modeled your game after? I mean, you know, obviously pops.

You know, I mean, he's been there along the way watching him play. But, you know, just Revis, another guy. Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson, you know. Chill. Chill. Kind of an asshole sometimes if you don't know him. He gives an asshole vibe because he's just like, he's always competing. Yeah.

That's my guy. Love you, Charles. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just legends. Tileau, another legend. He's not chill He's not chill Yeah

Yeah He's not chill I see that He came all here We're drinking shots Shout out corn This morning Yeah

I got that we're chill Shut up corners Yeah another one Man I think I think Just looking at So many legends

growing up I mean Like Richard Sherman Patrick Peterson Um Jana Ramsey I grew watching Jana Ramsey

And he's still doing it You know So Stefan Gilmore you know those guys. Chill. Chill. Now, he's like real chill.

I played with them like five years. I heard him speak four times. We fought twice too. We didn't talk. Y'all fought. We did. Yeah, we fought.

Okay. Sick convoy to fight ratio. Yeah. You fought twice? Nah, probably. Okay. We had one really big fight. Okay.

That was when the dread came out. Yeah, I pulled a dread out. It'd be the ones you least expect, though, man. For real. It'd be the ones you least expect. What is so, I mean, now, Charles Woodson, on the hardest receivers to cover in his career. Who is the toughest cover for you in your career?

Marvin. I was that Marvin Harrison. Marvin Harrison. Yeah, Marvin, man. Quiggas lightning. Quiggas lightning. You know, and I played him a couple times when I was, you know, I think my rookie year and my second year, played him in Indy.

So we played him on the turf. He's down there with Peyton Manning. And, you know, Marvin was, I always joked that Marvin was, you know, he was going to line up on the defense's left, Offense is right and that's where he was going to be. God damn it. And that's what it was. It wasn't a whole lot of motion in trying to get him open and all that stuff.

You had to line up. You had to play Marvin head up. And I mean, to me, he had it all. He was, you know, he was fast. He was quick. He ran good routes. Elite hands. Elite hands.

In and out of his brakes, you know, good. So I feel like, you know, just coming into the league and playing against him, You know, that was, I would say, you know, before I was seasoned, I would say that was the best guy I played against. And he always seemed to be comfortable and the uncomfortable. Yeah. Like for a small guy, he used to get like back shoulders and he would play fade ball with the best of them. And he was like five eight. Everything.

I mean, short routes, intermediate routes, deep routes, seven routes, overroutes, you know, whatever. He had it all. Like you had to cover all the routes with him. Maybe in like five years, six years we'll have another Marvin Harrison Charles Wilson rematch. Oh man, how about it? With the sons. How crazy would that be?

That'd be sick. Oh, man. Yeah. I like the sign of that. But he's bigger than his dad. Yeah, he'd be a different matchup. And your kid looks just like you on the field. He's like the same body.

Same body type. It'd be like, be like. be like me in Megatron. Like Megatron was like that. Megatron. Yeah. Was he hard to cover? Megatron? Yeah, because, you know, he, for one, he was six, four, six, four, five, whatever he is.

So, you know, he's got that, you know, that long catch radius, tall. He could run. And he was a big dude. He wasn't like a, you know, slender dude. So he's a big dude as well. So, you know, he was one of the. those guys that, you know, if he got that step on you, then, you know, you're not recovering. And he's never covered.

Even if he's covered because he's so big. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like you said, yeah, like I said, that catch radius, man. Up, wide. Yeah, it's hard to stop. Who's the favorite quarterback to pick off? Favorite to pick off? Well, it didn't come till late in my career.

I picked off Peyton my last year in the NFL. So I had to say that was the favorite because that's, I mean, it's, Payton. Payton, man. You got Tom? I dropped maybe two of Tom's interception. One of them I would have scored two. And I'm still mad about that.

You know he, but he sent me the video one day. He's like, man, I gave you one. Oh, man, I had it too, man. He would have been smiling. Like he did Brian Greasy, wouldn't he? Just like running down and feel like, I got your ass. Yeah, man. He laid it up there so nice for me too.

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This kid, Jafar Jackson, is as good as Rami Malik as Freddie Mercury, and it's as good as Timothy Shamaulay as... Bob Dylan, and I say that with love and respect for both of those actors. And I don't know how many Oscar nominations they give out, I don't know if it's five, six for best actor. 150% this kid Jafar Jackson should absolutely positively get nominated for his portrayal as Michael Jackson. Listen to I Am Rap Report on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This is Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like,

Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running the court licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I love the sounds,

the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football, it's home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom.

I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Food a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture.

I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Free as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Now, Thai law explains what it takes to be a dog in the NFL. Can you explain the dog? Huh? Can you explain the dog? I think the dog is a mentality, you know, that under any circumstances, are you going to break me? I'm going to win. I'm going to every play.

Even if you knock me down, I'm going to get back up. I'm going to come at you the same full tilt all day. And when adversity strikes, you still don't drop your head and you got that mentality that I'm going to beat you this play. If you beat me, oh, the next play, oh, it's on. Do it again, you know what I mean? Class heaters.

That's what, like, we're looking up right there. Kevin Garnett. Dog. Dog. All-time dog. What's a Mount Rushmore of dogs? Ooh, that's tough. That's tough.

I would say, you know, okay, let's just throw out a couple from each sport. Lawrence Taylor Dog Dog One that just retired Aaron Donald That is a dog

Ray Lewis Dog Rodney Harrison Dog You know what I mean Because I'm telling I'll say Rod Harris is supposed

To be in a pro football The Fame No no no I'm going there I'm going there I'll bet you I say okay no Jimmy Smith

Doug Julian Edelman Dog And not just because of You know I look at the journey too. Okay, you could make plays. You can do all this stuff, but to know how tough he was to be

able to go out there and do that and go out there and do what I do. I told Troy Brown, you got me fired, dog. Because when I got hurt, hit on Troy Brown playing DB, you know, and did some dog shit picking stuff. He led the league, he led the team in picks, you know, you know what I mean? So when you guys, when you guys come in and do that and can do more than just your job and you do it with so much passion and you're successful, because no one expected you. you to be who you are. Maybe you expected it, but when you get drafted, did you get drafted?

Yeah, seven. Okay, you went seven round. Damn it, that's basically a free agent bullshit. You always wish you were a free agent because you don't have to do two years. Huh? Exactly. They get you for four. But no one expected you when they brought you in. They didn't expect you to turn into the only person that can believe that is a dog

and you got to believe in yourself because basically when you get drafted that late, you're coming from another position. You are basically there for a tackling dummy. You're there for guys like somebody established like myself to beat up on. Exactly. So for you to make it, you know, you're a dog right there and then to put it out there and perform. And then you had some of the top corners out there that didn't want to see him. So that right there, you fit in the dog.

Tom Brady was a dog. Because from day one, he came in there and he wanted to compete. He going to talk shit. And I'm telling him, we used to light him up. But he coming right back at you as a dog on head bunch of. you, he gonna fight you, come at you, and he was not no punk. And that's what, you know, then, he ain't no punk right there. That was like a compliment.

Oh, he ain't no punk. You know, nowadays it's a, he ain't no bitch, but he ain't no punk. You know what I mean? So that was, Tom, I look at like receivers. Like, again, Hines War was a dog. He wasn't fast. He wasn't in it, but he will sit there and rock you, you know what? He will blindside the shit out of you too.

So you always got to keep your head on the swivel. So I look at the tough guys. Even, even, you know, I said. T.O. Randy Moss was a dog. You know what I mean? Because he was tough. Chris Carter, Michael Irvin. He will fight you all damn day too. You know what I mean? So I look at so many tough guys with like just skill. Everybody in a dog, man.

Now, are you born with that dog or can you develop the dog? Because I'm sitting here looking at my seven-year-old daughter. And I'm seeing some of this attitude and effort on the field right now. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know if we got dog in her. We got puppy. You know what? You might have puppy in her. My mom told me, you know, when I was younger, she said, you know, you used to get your ass with, you know, you wasn't, you wasn't that tough.

But, you know, I remember one time that I came home, grind and she made me go back out there and fight, you know. You're like, you're going to go out there and fight. And I started development. So, yes, you can develop a dog. And you can develop a dog. Yeah. Develop the dog. I mean, you could be born into it, too.

That's a T-shirt. That's a Ganger name's T-shirt. Develop. It's a T-shirt. That's right, baby. I developed both time. and you get that confidence, and then it's like when you realize that you've got to believe in yourself, that was my whole thing, was always believing in myself with no matter what anybody thinks.

That's what a dog is. A dog is someone who believes in himself, no matter what the situation is. Right, absolutely. If the situation is against you, if the world is against you, still think you're going to do it. Yep. Because when you stay ready, you ain't got to get ready. Next, Akeem to leap on his favorite corner. in today's NFL.

Who are some of the corners that you think are ballers right now? Pat for sure. Certain. Pat looked like his daddy was a cornerback, and he grew up getting taught technique, you know what I'm saying? Which is really what happened. And he looked exactly like that. Stingley, a baller, his movement is crazy. He got great ball skills, man.

Got that Revis body. Yeah, he got that Revis body. It's where you're like in between a long guy, but you have long arms, but you're still a powerful guy. You see him in person, you're like, oh, shit, it ain't as short as he really look on TV. Good balance, too. Exactly, man. Who else, man? Them the top two, them the top dogs.

Gonzalez? Yeah, Christian Gonzalez is a player, too. He's fat. He's just sticky. Straight sticky. He, like in that sauce world, they're going to have more strap games than pick games. Yep. You know what I'm saying?

Because you really, they big corners, they always in position, so you don't even really want to mess with it. You know what I'm saying? So Denzel, Denzel super athletic, man. Great movement. Get that ball. You know what I'm saying? Who's the... What is it?

Lasseter on Houston. Whistingly is another good corner. He gets a lot of targets because of Stingley, so that allow him to make a lot of plays. Now, what do you think about Moss? White boy out of Denver. I like Mots, man. Moss is... See, they'd be picking on them.

Patrick Sertan. Bro, you play on the other side of Pat. you're going to get picked on. Just simple as that. I don't care who you is. He makes plays. And he makes plays, bro. And he's always in position.

Always. Very athletic, man. Great size. You see him in person, he's probably bigger than me. Yeah. Like I'm telling you, man, he got great size, great speed.

He's like Seahorn. Sticky coverage, man. He really is. Seahorny. Always, always in position, bro. Always in position. I like Riley, man. I love Riley as our number two corner.

Now, the game's changed, hadn't it? A lot, man. A lot. It's, you know, what's something you hate about the game these days? I hate the illegal touching downfield. Like, come on, brother. Like, we want points that bad that we can't even lay a finger on him. Can't.

After five yards, like, bro. And then it's wishy-washy because you let some guys do it. And I was one of the guys they actually let play. You got to be consistent. Yeah, man. Like, you let guys do it. And then at the end of a game, a third down, you just, illegal touch and holding.

Like, bro, that's the part of the game. You almost could call that on any play. Every play. You feel me? All you guys are just trying to cover your cheating up. Exactly. The best guys are like the sneakiest guys that know how to get you low. They be grabbing.

That's what Akeeb did. He hold you low. I'm old like a motherfucker. Period. Every play. Every play, bro. So I look at it. I used to look at it.

I tell my high school guys and I work with and stuff like, I look at it like this. We're on a time crunch here. You feel me? We only got about three and a half hour window to be on this TV, right? You're going to call holding every fucking play? Like, we only got time for that shit. I'm going to hold and hold and hold and keep on playing.

And eventually he's going to be like, all right way. He's just playing like that. Like, you can't call it every play, right? Yeah. I'm establishing how we plan out here, not the refs. You know what I'm saying? Simple as that. I mean, you might as well hold them because a hold.

calls better than a touchdown. Exactly. And if you do it consistently, they can't call it every play. I can't. Thanks for listening. Remember to tune in every Tuesday for a brand new episode

and every Sunday for another games with names highlight. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed?

And it's beautiful. The guys are young, cute and fit. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about

soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. Listen to American Football on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast Point Game. playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of

my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.

He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move, and he went out the front door, and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For years, the Un-House has been presented as a monolith in mainstream media. Weedian House is a podcast that's changing the narrative. I'm Theo Henderson, and I created the show why I was unhoused on the streets of Los Angeles. We've grown into a two-time Webby Award-winning podcast, the only podcast that shares unhoused stories and news from the unhoused perspective.

Listen to Weythian House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.