Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - NFL Running Backs Tell Their Stories & Explain the Run Game

Episode Date: July 5, 2026

Iconic NFL running backs explain technique and what it takes to be a successful running back in the NFL. Untold stories from Corey Dillon, Brandon Bolden, Reggie Bush, Lorenzo Neal, and LeSean McCoySupport the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence, Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CVS. My husband is at a spa resort with his mistress right now, and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute, Dakota. She's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. Yeah, that's right, Sophia. And it gets worse. It's Vacate to Vacation Week on the Ok Storytime podcast,

where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon and then taped the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. So she planted evidence before he even took off? And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, karma hits so hard, he's calling his ex-wife. in tears saying about his mistress, what a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is exploded. The knockout rounds are here. The U.S. won their group, and now every match is winner go home.

I'm Tad Ramos. And I'm Tom Boger. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, we'll talk about the real storylines. Discuss the tactics that actually decide matches. and give you the truth about the U.S. national team from inside the program. Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first World Cup. We've got you covered. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland Podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard. the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of where that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bundy.

Listen to Discraceland on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman and we got a brand new compilation highlight reel starting now. Now, Corey Dillon on his inspirations at Running Back. I watched a lot of Jim Brown. Jim Brown. Nice.

Film, man. And that's who I wanted to be like, you know. I watched a lot. It looked like, you know what, he get hit. He get up slow. You know, stumble back to the huddle and come back and run you over again. Yeah. And it was just repeated.

And I was just watching him. All that film. was watching. He was big, strong, fast. And I'm like, hmm, I'm going to try to patent my game after that. And then on top of that, you know, I grew up watching football. So it was like the Tony Dorsets. Yeah.

Try to steal a little bit from him. The Eric Dickerson's. Yeah. Big guys fast. Take a little from him. Earl Campbell's. Walter Payton's. Barry Sanders, I never could be like that.

That dude is phenomenal. But, yeah, I just used to watch the running back position and watch all these great running backs and then be like, hmm, I like that. I'm going to take a little bit from there, take a little bit from there. And then, you know, what kind of form my own style, which my thing was I call it my little bag. Like, you know, I may start off the first two quarters running you over,

setting you up, next school quarter. two quarters, I might try to dance around you and mix it up. So, or vice versa, you know, just depends on what kind of what they're giving me. Kind of worked out. It worked out pretty good. But you also, you were always like really good, like the duo play. You know, duo where you have the two double teams and the running back really has to set that up. It's all vision, man.

You know what I mean? And you can't be too early to the cut or the fucking the guy scrapes over. Yeah. Can you explain that? I was real, well, we had this Jim Anderson, running back coach for Cincinnati. This is what he preached to me constantly. Slow to fast through, meaning footwork and press the line. But at a pace where you could see the cuts.

And that's all I really did. I never went full speed grabbing that ball. I was always on my footwork. and a little patient enough where I pressed that line, where I can see multiple cuts. And just by doing that alone, things are open up. Like I can see the backside, see the defense over pursuing. And then you know what?

As soon as I see that opening, that's when I explode through. Next up, Lorenzo Neal on the importance of running the ball in the NFL. Why was the 90s the best football, though? I think 90s, people were viving to try to out do the 80s, because you knew in the 80s is just hard. And the game was starting to change in 90s, certain things, more people wearing knee braces. So 90s was just still the big safety.

The guys that would still want to hit you. You know, Ronnie Lott was leaving, and here comes Darius, and here comes the John Lynch's. You know, be, doc, b, doc. And it was like, okay, they looked up to those guys. And so you went through those transitions, and then it's now, it's like, okay, Troy's gone.

Pollitt, Paul Mollett. So it's like what safety just brings fear like it used to be? You have a couple. No, I ain't going to say the guys still don't hit. They're still going after. But the game is different. It's very different. But my personal opinion is when you, like, safety's now, you have to cover tight ends.

Right. You got to be able to play in space. You got to, you know what I mean? Just because these tight ends now are receivers. A. B, safeties get money taken out of their pocket

with big hits now. Right. And ain't nobody get paid for how many knockout hits you get. What do they get paid for? Interceptions. And these little kids have been farming that

since these little seven-on-sevins that you get paid if you touch the ball, TFL, or, I mean, PBOs and picks. So they don't even go for the hit no more

because you want to get the money. Right. Like that's kind of like where I, that's kind of how, because these guys are huge, fast, strong. It's a little smaller because they're faster as far as like linebackers. There's 235-pound linebackers now.

When I first got in the league, Ray Lewis was 260. Right. You know what I mean? But he could move, you know what I mean? But like the game is just changed. It has. You know what I mean? And people want those stats because stats turn into dough.

And when you look at the tight-in position now, tightens, most of the tightens, you want them, they're too fast for linebackers. and too strong for a safety. Because you changed the game. You had safeties that used to be able to cover, but now these safeties are just too strong. Just pound them, beat them up, so you got to double them.

So there's certain things, elements of the game that you have to compensate for because you have went with, you know, more of the hybrids, because it's more of sideline to sideline, because teams aren't patient enough to say, I'm a lineup and I'm going to go right at you. And that's why when you look at November and December, teams that usually win, usually can run the ball.

Even the Patriots, when you guys were winning. That was what we did. And we had James Devlin and he said hello because he loves you to death. Oh, y'all, tell Jay what up. And that's what made you guys. Everyone thought, oh, the Patriots got Brady. No, they knew that if you did, if you put eight, nine in box, guess what? You were going to hurt people.

Walker was going to hurt people. When y'all had Moss going to hurt. So it was like, dare you. So you, so, and that's, but when you run the ball, Corey Dill, another guy blocked for in Cincinnati, tough, get downhill, can run physical. I love. So you guys, everyone talks, no, this was not a finesse team. It was still physical.

And that, when you can be two-dimensional, you're hard out. It's a tough out. And I mean, you look at the last five, six Super Bowl winners. I mean, Philadelphia Eagles, they ran the shit out of the ball. They tried throwing it the first four weeks. It wasn't until the by week that they said, hey, let's run the ball. We have the best running back in the league. We got a best line in the league.

And then we'll set up our past game through play action. You know, you look at, you know, the Rams when they, one. They had Gurley. He was a stud, and they had off the run game. You know, everyone, we all fascinate to make this such a spread-em-and-shred-em game, but still, fundamentally speaking, like the teams that run the ball, like you said, late in the year, are the teams that go on to win the Super Bowl. Because you can control the game. Control the game. Now, the Niners were doing that, you know, a couple years

ago when they had everything in place. They were still one of those teams. Hell, against against the team that you're going to watch Vikings rather. Remember they threw the ball eight times. NFC championship. I mean, you only threw the ball eight times. Jimmy G. You know, eight passes. The rest was just run. When you can run the ball and just make teams quick because it checks your heart, you just got to be like, man,

as a guy, it's four yards, three yards, and boom, first down, it just kills the mental. Yes, demoralize the defense. And even when you're the guy in the, like, when you're on offense and a team is running the ball on you, it takes you out of your rhythm. It's like when you're sitting there on the sideline, you're going over your plays for the next goddamn dry. All right, we got the third down.

You get ready. Because the offense, go. First, yeah. Oh, they just got three yards. Oh, Shire, we're up. Six yards? Right. How the fuck can we get out there?

That part. And that's, you know, it is, I mean, when you have a big explosion play touchdown, it's so damn quick sometimes, you're like, man, we were just on office. We got our field. let's go. Right.

But it's funny. The game has definitely changed. You're right. What is the one thing that you, what's like the one bit of advice that you give for the fullback? Like if you're going to be the team, because that's a badge of honor. Because if you're on the team and you're a foolback,

like you ain't have no backup. You don't have a backup. You got to know a lot of shit. It's like a mentality thing. My fullback, James Devlin, like the fullback was, always like the first guy in locker room fucking smelling salts while he's squatting like drinking cement for fucking breakfast like that's what the but that was his job right he had to show that

like i'm part of the toughness team and i am the toughness team what's your advice for the the fullback the young fullback trying to come in and make his his way on a team i think the biggest thing is walk lightly but carry a heavy bat. I didn't need to be anyone's friends. I said, we just work together. I'm not your friend. We just work together. You can buy yourself some friends. You have to be mean. You have to be physical. You, it's full back to my advice is like, it's, yeah, it's some technique to it, but it's like, guys do not want to hit. And head on, when you see me coming and you see me, you have to make a decision.

My advice to fullbacks, if you want to make this game come back and fullbacks become an integral part of this game again, you have to be fearless. You have to run in there, whether it hurts or not, and say, I'm going to win this battle. I'm talking about cutting the leg

when you block, block up and through. If you're going head to head, when you hit, you dip, you lift, and you create a new line. When you stalemate as a fullback and you stalemate and the linebacker step you in a hole, you make the tailback now stop his feet.

You have to say, I'm going to hit you, I'm going to stay lower and I'm going to push you out of the way. If you can push and create a new line of scrimmage, now you give the tailback a two-way cut. That's what I knew when I played fullback. I could see the safety coming down. And I knew if the safety came down, he was playing force trying to knock the lineback

and make it spill inside. I said, if you know that, if I could get to his inside shoulder, throw my head across, now you have LaDainian safety and linebackers playing air because you created that space. So it's about knowing your job, attention and details, and played the game physical. That's what I, you know what?

I couldn't agree a thousand percent more. I'm not a foolback, but I just always hung around fullbacks. And I remember when, you know, James ended up fucking, like, having a neck problem because that's what you have if you're, and I would explain to the new foolback, okay, that's,

this is going to happen. This is what you have, this has to happen for you to be a proper fullback. You have to have neck problems. You have to go in and literally look like you're, you don't care about your body. You don't. Like that,

and that's what, because, you know, then we'd have some other new fullbacks come in. They try to go with the chest fur, you know what I mean? I'm like, dude. Now, Reggie Bush talks his iconic highlight runs. I think one of those runs was running

non-stop for like two weeks on top 10 plays. And so everybody, you know, remembered that play, but specifically about, you know, me, people thought I put the ball behind my back. And it wasn't a predetermined move. It was just, I actually had the ball in the wrong hand. So, as you know, when you're running down the sideline, outside. You got to have that ball on the outside hand. And so you can stiff arm, exactly. And I did not have the ball on my outside hand. I had it on the inside.

And really, when the ball's in my right hand and I got open field, that's where I'm comforted. That's where I'm really like getting and I'm taking off. So you're a right hand guy? I'm a right hand guy. You know what's crazy? I was always, I'm a right-handed guy. But I was always a left guy because when I was a kid in Pop Warner, I was the

foreback and I'd always go to the left. Really? So it trained me, I always use my, because I'd always use it to the outside of the hand because they're always getting in your head. So I was like an orthodox, but give me how about I catch you. No, you're good. And so what happened to me, my senior year in high school, I broke my wrist. And I actually was catching a swing route.

And when I went to stiff arm the guy, he was already up on me. He was coming full speed and knocked my hand backwards. And I broke this bone right here, the navicular scapegoid, which is one of the bones that has like lowest blood supply. But obviously, I was young enough. Doctor put a cast on it. I played my entire football, my senior year with a cast on my left wrist. I think I remember that. And so I wasn't necessarily comfortable yet back with carrying that ball on my left hand.

So there are a lot of games you might see when I'm in college, when I'm carrying the ball wrong, again, going down the left side, but I got in that right hand because I just hadn't gained that comfort level back with squeezing it and holding it tight, especially when you're fighting through traffic. And so again, in this specific play, though, when I'm running down the sideline, I'm literally trying to outrun the safety. And what happened earlier in the game, I had a touchdown

where I actually outran him, same exact spot, almost identical. And so the second time now I'm coming around, and I peek out a corner of my eye and I see his head down and he's just like digging. He was a higher angle. He said he fucking got me last time. I got to go higher. I got to go higher. Exactly.

And so he learned his lesson, right? So now he's going at a higher angle. He got his head down. He's digging. And so now after peaking, and I see that, I know I got to put my foot in the ground because I'm not going to outrun him. Yeah. And so I stopped. And he was close enough to me where if he actually reached his hand out, he probably could have hit the ball.

Yeah. And so naturally, when somebody's that close to you, it's either you squeeze it or if you're trying to get busy, you just do something crazy, right? Yeah, he got busy. And that's what came out, you know, and I think, you know, when we play. the game. There are a lot of things and a lot of part, most of the game is really built on instincts. You know what I'm saying? And instincts and vision. And so for me in that moment, it was all about instincts and vision. And I just, my hand went back. I put my foot in the ground. I knew I was going to stop and reverse. I just didn't know I was going to put my hand like on the side behind

my back like that with the ball and cut behind them. And then outrun everyone. And then I'll burn it. An IR Radio Experience weekend gold tickets to Ilsoni. One, two, three. Dom Dalla, Chris Lakin Friends, Woolley, Deadmouse, above and beyond, subfocus, and more. With flights from Porter Airlines, three nights at Residence in Downtown Montreal, and $1,000 cash. Enter for your chance to win at iHeartRadio.ca.

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And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner retirement. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My husband is currently on a vacation with his mistress and I'm confronting them. Tell me, Sophia. How did she even catch them? One Amazon shopping receipt. He accidentally sent her a photo of the kids' Christmas gifts with a delivery to another woman at the bottom. He exposed himself? That's a rookie move.

Couples massages, monogrammed bath robes, and lingerie he memowed her for. So she spent four weeks gathering evidence and taped a 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. In his luggage, she came to play. And the second he landed, he blocked her. So she called the hotel room directly and got the mistress on the phone. Ooh, she got the mistress live on the phone?

That is a bold move. Let's see if it pays off. Then it gets worse. He took the mistress on the Bahamas honeymoon trip he had planned with his wife. And then the mistress tagged him on Facebook, outing the fair to her entire family. That's like a whole public confession. And spoiler, two years later, karma hits him so hard. He's calling his ex-wife in tears saying about the mistress.

What a mistake that was. To find out what happened, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. My first guest is Paris Hylken, Shakira, Luke and Yerrin, Samira and Gracie. I'm so excited. On the bouncy bed. You have surprises? Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305, where the group chat comes to life.

What a fuck. It's like a form of saying, like, hello, amiga, hello. My mom, my friend, oh, my my mother. Look, never I've ever had to have I've ever. My kids, my my wife.

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like you'd like to collaborate with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Culture Podcast Network. on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Everybody. Next up, Brandon Bolden on the tight-knit running back room. What was the legacy of the running backs room? I was the one constant. I've been through everybody. I was there with Woody, Shane, Reed, LG, Dion, Gillisly, James White, Sony, Michelle. We had like, uh, uh, even Jackson, you mentioned.

Steven Jackson, Tyler Gaffney. We are, and I've seen everybody. Remindre Stevens and Damon Harris. I was there with everybody. Sexy Rexy. I see Damon on CBS. Yeah, Dame's doing it. Dan's got his kid now too, so it's just like, he's hilarious.

He is. But the running back room, we always, since I first got there, and Woody was kind of the one who started it, bro, you don't have to do none of this shit by yourself. Like, I'd never forget that conversation me and him had. I was like, what you mean? He was like, if you don't remember the fucking plays, bro, look to the sideline. We are helping you.

And it was like, preseason, I think there was the last preseason game. They had bought Jeff in because it was just me. So it was me and Jeff. And that's when we started doing like the two backs. And I can't, they called one play. And I just knew I had the wheel. But then I look at Jeff and Jeff's like, no, I got the wheel. I was like, well, fuck it, we both about to run the wheel.

As I'm starting off on my wheel, I just see Shane go, no, you got a O. So I'm running the O route on the fucking numbers to the field. And Tom threw the fucking ball the other way. I was so fucking happened. I was like, you didn't know what your head, did you? No. Had no idea. No clue.

But that was the thing. And it was like from that point on, we always, we try to. to eat together. We want to hang out together. I want to know you, your mom, your girl, you got kids, bring the kids over. And we kept that running back room as tight. Like, you remember, you didn't see one of us without the other ones. Yeah, always together. Always. Now, Lashon McCoy, on what makes a great running back. The bills, they still haven't had a thousand on rushing. So my thing is, where is your real impact? If it is good of a player, soon you leave, the backup, do the same thing? Now, how good are you really?

You get them saying? Yeah. But what if they... Let's go. What if the teams, because it had such a dominant back, they were like running the ball, they had such... The offense was built around the running back. Great question.

Great question. And then all of a sudden, they just couldn't win the Super Bowl. They couldn't get to the Super Bowl. So like, fuck it. We're getting rid of running back. We already had that insane running back. We got to evolve to what everyone else is. Is that maybe that someone could say that so the quotes so I told you that I don't

if you heard me they had Peyton Manning yeah so when we go on to the game who who you think we're trying to stop you think we're about to pack the line of scrimmage up to stop Edron James we're gonna stop paying man that with that passing game yeah make them one dimensional you stop the run always okay all right well if you think that that's cool I just you got to it's not even about everything comes off the run game whether you have one or not I mean, it depends what I mean, I hear that. But then, like, there's some things that we throw the ball. We just, we're throwing the ball.

I personally haven't had a lot of open boxes running the ball. No, you didn't. But what I'm saying is if I had a pagan, I'm damn sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but no one put, no one put Edgar and James in all-time great. He's a Hall of Famer. You talk about Hall of Fame backs, right? The difference you want it.

He's a Hall of Fame right. So we're going to some of these Hall of Fame right. I didn't know Eggers and James was in the Hall of Fame. He had a lot of yards, though, didn't know. he had a lot of carries too see that's impressive though a lot of probably was healthy too that's a thing about running backs he had a lot of 300 or 300 carry years i've only had one that's impressive a lot of guys get hurt and we're seeing it right now guys can't run the ball like what's the number now i don't know they're saying every it's like 360 snaps for a running back they're like

if they play that or they have those carries they're like going to get hurt that's what the analytics team is there well i don't i don't I don't know that. So when you see a guy that can do it repetitively, like that's why Frank Gore was crazy to me. Like, that dude carried the ball so much. Longevity. Longevity is huge in running back.

But there's nobody that blocks burning Frank Gore. There's nobody that plays in the... Between the tackles? Bro, he got good eyes. Downhill. And he's always leaning forward. I've never seen my better than him at that. No, he makes the right read always,

and he knows that to manipulate blocks, the double teams because they always had the double teams with them. The big boy's out. You right? You know, and he, and you'll see a lot of like, really, like, that's a difference between a pro back and a college back. College backs can get away with not making the right reed. Or manipulate in the defense. Yeah, they can run through arm tackles and stuff.

When you get to the league, it's like there's a track that you have to run because of how the blocking schemes are. And I didn't know that until I got to the NFL because I was like, this guy's going to be hell of good. We got him. And you see that he makes the cut, you know, three, three steps too early. and the guy sheds off the block. And that's one thing is the young back. The hardest thing is, damn, patient.

There's a hole I'm hitting it. No, sell that shit more. Yeah, come off his heels. They always say come off his ass, but it's pause. I always say, coach, hey, pause, dude. Yeah, I pause a lot of the stuff. Coach be saying. Coaches be saying.

Now, Reggie Bush talks about the original Bush push. Hey, we just had Liner talking about the Bush push. Did you? What's your perspective on that whole thing? My perspective. He got his. I want to see if it dials up. I want to see who.

He was talking. Matt 100% needed me on that play. 100% needed me. He was going backwards. He was going back. First of all, all right, let's just, when you look at what Jalen Hertz is doing now, they're trying to call it the brotherly love shove

or the tush push. That's bullshit, all right? It's the bush push, okay? All right. And it started on accident. All right? It was started because I was trying to, fucking win the game and I just didn't want to lose and that's that relentless pursuit that

relentless mindset like you know no matter what we we're going to score this touchdown and so before that play we're in the huddle it's timeout because everything is going crazy Matt just gets knocked out of bounds first of all Matt got knocked out of bounds and fumbled the ball out of bounds so it was it was one of those plays where if he gets tackled in bounds game over game over so he gets knocked out of bounds ball goes out, clock stops, even though Notre Dame tried to keep the clock running. And we get the timeout and we're in the huddle. And it's just, I just remember it just being chaos.

And I'm just like, I can't fucking believe we could possibly lose this game right now. Like, I can't believe we're in this dog fight with Notre Dame. Like, and so I go to, I say to the man, I'm like, what are you going to do? And he's like, I'm going to sneak it. I'm like, fuck. Literally, first thing came to my head. I'm like, oh, shit. Didn't he say like, yeah, dude?

He said that you said that you said, said like, yeah, man, I think you got it. That's not how I felt. I was like, yo. He said he was doing some hand signal things with you. He said, I got this. Audible, something. Like, we might have the audible or something right now

because I don't know if this is going to work. And so then we break the huddle and all 11 players are lined up waiting for this QB sneak. I'm like, man, oh my God. And so Matt hikes the ball. he starts getting knocked backwards on a QB sneak he's moving backwards i'm like oh no this ain't happened i just shove his ass push him as hard as i could bro over the line and then he kind of like does some little uh-oh like falls you didn't even like get your head down and like dude you got

have a knack for the end zone i'm so glad that we have the philadelphia eagles perfecting it now because you see what it's supposed to look like that's what it's supposed to look like ours ain't He kind of looked like a dead fish. He was doing one of those moves he learned in the ballroom dancing class. He was taking a little. Piroret. It was a dead fish move. It was the ballroom dance scene that he was taking night ear only.

He slid up in there. But again, he 100% needed that push over that line. And I had, I didn't even know it was illegal at the time. I was just like, we got to win this game. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and

listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CV. Yes. My husband is at a spa resort with his mistress right now, and I'm calling the hotel to confront them both. Wait a minute, Dakota. She's calling the hotel while they're checked in together. Yeah, that's right, Sophia. And it gets worse. It's Vacate to Vacation Week on the Ok Storytime podcast, where she caught him buying gifts on Amazon,

and then taped the 10-page letter inside his luggage before he flew out. So she planted evidence before he even took off? And spoiler, Sophia, two years later, karma hits so hard, he's calling his ex-we. wife in tears saying about his mistress what a mistake that was to find out what happened listen to the okay story time podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast american soccer is exploded the knockout rounds are here the u.s won their group and now every match is winner go home i'm tab ramos and i'm tom boger on our podcast inside american soccer we'll talk about the real storylines discuss the tactics that actually decide matches

and give you the truth about the U.S. national team from inside the program. Whether you're a lifelong fan or this is your first World Cup. We've got you covered. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland Podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history.

These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of or that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bundy. Listen to Disgraceland on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.