Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - Pacman Jones on Ending Tom Brady's Streak

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

Pacman Jones is in studio! The legendary cornerback is with us to relive the time he snapped one of Tom Brady's longest running streaks in Week 5, 2013 when the Patriots took on the Cincinnati Bengals in a rain soaked clash.  (00:00) We kick things off. (00:39) Pacman joins us on the couch. (43:25) We go back to October 2013. (47:32) We get into these rosters. (1:01:04) We get into the game. (1:16:29) We score it. Support the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

October 6, 2013, Pay Cor Stadium, Cincinnati, Ohio. With 26 seconds left, the Bengals lead the Patriots 13 to 6. But Brady's driving. He drops back to pass. Oh, no! This is the Mike Zimmer, Make it Rain Game. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman.

They're Jack and Kyler, and we are on the search. to find the greatest game of all time. We got a great episode coming up with Pac-Man Jones. And if you haven't already, drop a like and a subscribe to Games with Names. Let's go. Games with Names, a production of IHeart Radio. Welcome to Games with Names. Today, we have a very special guest to go over the Patriots versus the Bengals.

Week 5, 2013 match with the legendary Pac-Man Jones. pack in one sentence, why this game? Stop the streak. Like, why not? Why not? Tom Brady is the best of all the time. Like I said, I was a part of history when people talk about Tom Brady

because I stopped the streak this game. Stop the streak. Yeah. That's most touchdowns like in a row. 52 straight games. Yeah. 52 straight games. You know, we'll dive into this game.

But you guys played a hell of a defensive match. but I got some shit we could talk about that I got some shit we could talk about Is this the greatest game of all time? For me or are you saying It were however you want to take it Because we've done about 200 of these things

We grade them We grade this game at the end I always say it's got to be one One of one Yeah I like that 52 touchdowns we stop it I had a chance to stop it

Be a part of something And this game always going to be talked about because it's Tom Brady. Tom Brady. It'll always be talked about. That ain't that the truth. So, Pac, what are you up to these days? Man, politely, Roe, is my podcast. I watch it.

I see the clips. It's funny as hell. And I just explain to itself politely Roe, man. I enjoy talking shit and doing it my way. Like, I always tell people, like, I don't really judge the person, but I love judging the play. You know what I mean? I don't care what you do, but between the lines, it gives me time to give my opinion and what I think about certain things. So, yeah, just whatever that play shows.

Yeah. Like, not if, like, the player in that play, maybe been at the strip club the night before. It's not about that. It's about the play. It's about the play. I was one of those guys that was at the strip club a lot before a lot of games. and uh bro you know that i got to tell you so we had a series of formations and it was each formation it was an empty the f would move and so the f in the the slot the two spot was tiger because it was

ls u tigre for kevin falk who was the running back that we'd put in the slot he was the guy right the the f on the outside was brown and then the f on the outside was brown and then the f on the inside was Bengal. And in the way for us all to remember that, our coach would always say, all you got to remember is the F's always in jail. He's in jail, the Bengals are always in jail. Hey, y'all had a lot of interesting things.

I want to ask you this before we get going. Did Tom Brady, like, come in there and break down each defensive guy when y'all was going to these big games? Like, as far as, like, Super Bowl, like this guy right here, don't got good deep ball speed. This guy right.

here he liked the jump place he only played good in zone yeah so that was like every week so you know like we'd have it was usually like a friday or a thursday you know it's kind of like the back end of the week where there it's more of mental days we'd have time and meeting time after our installation of whatever that like friday would be red zone then tom receivers skill group we would sit and we'd watch it cut up of all the dbs so it'd be like six plays for each guy yeah and tom would go through and he was leading the

meeting and go this guy has an offhand jam this guy's patient in the line of scrimmage this guy won't get let you get deep so you have to use your quick like all that stuff was real I saw a clip about that recently yeah I would ask you that because before this game I was talked to him he's like

you don't like couple two do you the fuck he no I don't like couple two and then it just came up not too long ago and that's what made me ask you that. And I hate a couple of two, too, by the way. Why? I just want, I rather have my man.

Yeah. Give me my man. I get it. That's a real corner. Yeah. They don't have many of Pac-Man Jones anymore. Six overall. Dude's not even six foot, but that's how good of a corner

where you could just say, hey, you, doesn't matter what everyone fucking, you guys run. Hey, Pac, you got him. Yeah. That's like a real corner. Lockdown. Lockdown. And can return points.

Who's the lockdown corners right now that are man coverage corners? Well, you got to say Patrick Surtain. Patrick Sertane. He's a dog. He's long, though. I like the kid from the Panthers. Jackson? Or the other one?

The other one who just got paid all that money. Corn, right? J. J.C. Horn. Jacy Horn. I like him. I should have known that. I'm an analyst.

Them are my talk, too. Gonzalez. I like Stingley. Stingley is really good. Lasseter is too. They got two really good corners. Stingley is a dog. Gonzo Gonzalez for the Patriots.

He's just, he's pretty. He's athletically there. Yeah. He still needs to learn how to use his hands. But that guy he sticks on dudes. There's some good corners. It is. There's some good corners.

Some bad ones, too. What do you, what do you think about these playoffs right now? It's up in the air, but you know how it is, bro. If you get higher at the end of the season, I think the most dangerous team right now are the Texans. Texans? Yeah. Just staying at every top five category on defense. Yeah, but the offense, like real poopy last week.

No, but that defense, that offense eventually get going. Will it? I think. But what if it catches a store? Like, okay, we know what the Steelers are on offense. It was struggle for them. They don't have the offense line to play the way they want to play where they can run the football and then hit the play.

They don't have that. They had a struggle on defense. Really, if you. Which, that's all. We're not getting into that. We're not getting into that. And defense never suck for Pittsburgh. How do you spend some, it's the richest defense in the world?

Yeah. They're leading the world in paying defense. And they ain't making the plays. But getting back to the other side. side. In the playoffs, as we both know, the next game's the harder game. Yeah.

So they're going to play a team. If they have three turnovers, that team's going to be able to score at least one, two point. Yeah. Not like the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah. So like that's the only thing that makes me scared about. The offense has been way too up and down.

And those up and downs, they don't go away when you enter the playoffs. They get exposed when you. when you are in the playoffs because it's not about the more plays you make, it's about the least amount of mistakes you make. Yes. To win games in the playoffs. And Shanahan, Shannon has, I don't know how Shanahan does it,

but he lost damn to everybody on the team. Him and Chris McArthur figure out a way to win the game every time. Like, literally he out-coached him his last game. That was a thousand percent, dude, Ouzcheck. You know what? They have a lot of versatile players. They do. You know, like Ushchek, he's like basically a tight end that plays fullback.

He knows all the spots. And when you have a bunch of guys that know all the spots, as you know, that's what we used to do. It makes it hard for the defense to match up. You play the big boys in, you play regular. They bring in the big guys. They spread you out. You got big guys in coverage. Then Shanahan's going to hit one of those screen.

You know what I mean? It's just a matchup game. The one thing, though, the Niners are always good. under the radar. Yeah, I agree. They're always good under the radar. It's because they coach good. They coach well, though.

But when it's there and they got to, you know, it's one of those things. They got to get over the hump because they have terrible statistics when it comes to like trailing in the fourth quarter like oh and 34 when they're down seven points or the fourth. In the second half time, if they're down seven points, they have like some crazy stats. They're what you like to call that front running team. where they got to play with the lead so then their defense can do all that crazy shit and the offense can play on schedule with the fucking chains they get their play action

it's gonna be a big test this week though Seahawks is a real good team Seahawks are good but you know what I think the Niners scare me playing the Seahawks because they know how to play the Seahawks and they ain't scared of the Seahawks like everyone right now and they just lost to them too just lost to them how hard is it to play a team three times

You know how hard it is, man. You go back and look at all the film and shit, your head is thinking this way, that way. Well, I had him on this play this time. He wasn't that good. And when I was pressing him, you go to the next game, his ass off the line every play.

It's hard. It's hard because you... I think it's better for the defense. Because I used to hate, because then you got to, like, if you felt one of my moves, I don't got to see you for a while. But then I got to see you in two weeks.

You felt that move that I've been trying to set you up on? The only thing that I would say is a little bit more is final formation. Like y'all was, one week we would play y'all. Y'all go five wide. The next week, you motherfuckers in bunch formation, the whole fucking game. I'm like, where was this on film the last two weeks? So, like, stuff like that is kind of hard because you already got a couple of keys. Oh, if they give me this formation.

I don't care big double movie. I'm going to go ahead and jump it. But it's a chess game. Gambler. See right there. See, Pac-Man, he's a businessman. Yeah, I'm going. If I think I know what it is, I'm going.

Because if you jump it and you get burned, no one's going to remember that in two weeks, but if you jump it and you get a pig, oh, my God. That's just money in the pocket for the D. That's what I always say. D.Bs ain't hit no one anymore because no one gets paid for big hits.

Yeah. You're getting fine for Big Higgs now. Taking it away. Yeah, football soft now. Man. What's up with these Cincinnati Bengals right now? Man, we need some vets, man. Like, I like the two linebackers, the two young boys.

I think they're going to be all right. They both had a hundred plus tackles. Came on later during the season. But early on the season, shit, every tight end we played had 100 yards. We gave up a thousand damn points this year. Yeah. You can't win like that. what we got back there

yeah I don't know you scored 30 points you expect to win the game I mean I think they lost four games when they scored 35 points or more they lost six games them scored over 28 points

even old man Joe Flacko was putting up points yeah hey smoking Joe looked all right smoking Joe looked the damn good I get so excited for the old guys like I was never an A-Rod fan but now I'm an A-Rod fan because he's an old dude. It's kind of like defying the law, underdog, flaco.

Rivers. Rivers, I couldn't hop on that one. Rivers chirped too much. I could. I always was A-Rod's fan, though, because of the same draft class. Oh, true. I was. I mean, he was, like, throwing the ball.

Like, he's, there's, like, I don't think. Generational. It's him and Dan Marino. because all the old heads, I didn't watch Dan Marino, but all the old heads say that Dan Marino could put a freaking

a football on a cup. You could tell those guys too, though. I think Mahomes is one of those guys that could just flat out through it. That Caleb throw was pretty sick. Color when him, color was playing.

He could spin it. He could spin it. He reminds, he's kind of like a, like him and Stapford had the same kind of arm. Stafford can spin it. That Caleb throw was pretty sick.

Yeah, it was. We just got to get him to hit layups. Yeah. I wouldn't buy him with the nails and shit, but it seemed like in the fourth quarter, he just turned to Superman. Like, he plays shitty for three quarters. Then the fourth quarter comes.

And he's been unstoppable in the fourth quarter of these lives. Shit, it's like some Josh Allen type stuff. Those two guys were in the fourth quarter rolls around. It's been, it's, I, you know what? I'm happy for, the Chicago Bears and that like I went down a rabbit hole watching all those fans bro they brother cheese graders like they haven't experienced that that joy in a long time I read the cheese grater company was making the cheese hats and then the packers sent a cease and desist

so they made the cheese grater hats we'll show you Justin fuck the packers I love it and the handshakes too oh that handshake was hilarious bro that's like a Do you have any coaches that had any petty wars like that? Oh. Have you? Yeah. Yeah. Coach Rod will tell the coach how he feel.

Rich Rod, yeah. I mean, he had no problem with it. I don't think he had a problem with it today either. And who else was petty like that? Oh, my defense coordinator. Mike Zimmer? Zim. Zim.

Zim. don't get a fuck by nobody. Man, bro, legend. Yeah, yeah. The blow by is the best. Oh, that was an all-time blow-by this weekend. Zim was, yeah, Zim was the ODC here. You got the game ball.

Yeah. That was a great, I mean, we'll get into that. Didn't Zim have, didn't Zim have like a 20-year-old wife? Yeah. That's right. I thought that was in. Yeah, after his wife, from cancer.

I remember that was in a scouting report. Yeah, that was tough. That was in our scouting report. I remember. It was like this year, maybe. Yeah. It was a year before. Yeah.

He's like, you know, coaches coached. No, it was this year. His wife passed away in 12. Yeah. And like, I remember the coaches be like, yeah, this guy's coaching out of his pants right now. He's got a little something extra. Wife passed away. You know, he's pulling from other things, you know, guys. So we got to look out for some maybe spend the dial type stuff. He ain't going to see anything on third down the same. He's going to just throw something. He's going to be different. Jim was, Zim was by far, I would say, I would put him one as far as far as. defensive coordinator.

Wow. You ever had? I will put, huh? Your best? Yeah. And then two I would go with, um, um,

what's my boy who coached in Denver right now? Joseph, Vance? Yeah, Vance, BJ. For a cornerback, you want Vance. For blitzes and disguise, you want Zim. Because his whole thing was mugged that he got me. You don't know what the hell we're in.

We're going to play palms out of it. We're going to play man out of. We're going to play zero out of it. He taught, like, we would disguise everything. These kids now... And that's what you did in this game that we played. They don't need fucking disguised, yeah. That's all you did in this game.

Because we were shook. We couldn't get any offensive going because they were getting us with the disguise. Then that rain came down right in time. Monsoon. Monsoon. I'm like, yes. Yes. Now, Pat, how did you end up at West Virginia?

So my grandma got sick with cancer, and I was committed to Georgia Tech. And, like, two weeks before, she got really, really sick. She's like, I think you should just leave here. Like, then you ain't going to be to come see me play. And I had a real good relationship with Coach Rod, Coach Byrd, Coach Byrd, Coach Gibby. I didn't want to go to Georgia because I had another friend that went to Georgia and they didn't treat them right. So I had already crossed out Georgia.

I went to Miami. They didn't show me no love on the visit of that Miami. They was only showing love to the Miami boys, but still said they wanted me. Went to South Carolina. And at that time I was playing running back. And I forget the kid who was the number one running back in the country,

but he ended up going to South Carolina. And I was like, fuck, I'm going to West Virginia. It's a long way from home. It's cold. There ain't nobody just pop up on me. I knew I would have a chance to start. And then when I got there, Avon and Coburn was talking player of the year. So I couldn't play running back.

And Rod called me in his office because I was about to lead. He's like, look, no you want to play running back. But we see you playing defense at corner. You're going to have a good chance of starting. I thought about it. I went back to him. Like, but can I do punt return and kick return? He's like, yeah, you can do punt return to kick return.

And then, yeah, that was a good point. That was all she wrote, and Morgantown was unbelievable for me, man. Met a lot of good people there changed my whole outlook of everything. Like, I'm from the projects. Like, I've never been to school. We had one white kid in our school that was apparently Jimmy. And, like, this was, like, our best friend. Like, we rolled him around in his wheelchair and everything,

and then been dropped in West Virginia. One too many, one too many blacks up. West Virginia when I first got there. Besides, like, some of the guys that was on the team, but it just taught me how to maneuver a lot quicker than I probably would have learned staying in Atlanta, Georgia

at Georgia Tech. Even though I don't think there's no black people at Georgia Tech either, but you're still in the city. Yeah, that's how, that's the story. And I got, I shouldn't say I got a bag. I ain't get a bag. You're supposed to get a bag. It's a little bag. The statute of limitations.

That's right. Let's go. Yeah, $6,000 back then was a lot of money, bro. Oh, man, that was a bag in a half back then. We'll be right back after this quick break. On June 11, 1998, the deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all-out manhunt for John A.J. Every search and rescue team in L.A. County has been called in to help.

Within days, Tips started flooding into the Sheriff's Department. The ruler around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover-up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department? A homicide captain saying, Detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries

about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance? I wouldn't do it alone. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If it was Pac-Man, if we could just drop you when you were 19 today and you started off at West Virginia, would you have ended up at West Virginia or you've been doing NIL dip in for four mil, three months? No, no, no. I ain't.

Maybe after that first year you didn't play running back. You probably went into Oregon or something. I think they would have paid me. Like, and, like, we was a number one part of school in the country when I was there. Dude, that's- I heard of football. Crazy, bro. Legend-zero.

You guys were a good football school, too. In basketball, right? We was, especially our second and third year. Like, we was number five in the country. I remember losing the Pittsburgh. We went to the national championship. Backyard, bro. game. But, bro, like the atmosphere in West Virginia, burning couches, the fucking mudslide

parties. What's the backyard bra? Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, West Virginia. All time. That's why I really don't fuck with Pittsburgh. I haven't fucked with Pittsburgh since college. Then I end up going to the Bengals. Never ever really came. Oh, man, everywhere you go. I went to Kent State. We had a lot of Pittsburgh kids. A lot of Pittsburgh kids. There's probably a lot of Pittsburgh kids went to West Virginia. One of my best friends, Brian Rivers. So what's the deal with the couches?

I went to Virginia Tech, and I was always bummed that they stopped the rivalry because of just burning couches and shit. So what's the vibe with that? Big games. Like Virginia Tech was our rival, too. I'll never forget that. We played Virginia Tech.

It was throwing fucking big-ass double-D battery at us. It was like, put your helmet on. They got batteries out there. They got D's today. And they was chunking them down batteries. We end up, that's when y'all had the running back, 22.

We beat y'all at Virginia Tech 760 again. That was a crazy day. Was it a crazy day? Then we came back. The next year, played y'all in West Virginia with the National Task Force there. I had a night that night.

We won that night, too. Man. So, like when either teams were on the edge of getting to that next level, Virginia would take you guys down or West Virginia would take Virginia Tech down. But I've never seen a couch not burnt if we'd be,

if we'd be, Virginia Tech, we beat Pitt, back then, Miami. Yeah. Like, bro, they would take the goalpost out of the stadium and take it all the way down the fucking high school. First of all, how in the fuck did y'all get in the stadium to get the goal post?

Like, it was crazy, bro. Like... How did they get it out? I don't know. Teamwork. I don't know. It happened three times while I was there. What were your favorite spots to go to in Morgantown?

What's the bar everyone goes to? Ceglers. Caglers. Caglers was cool. Bent Willys was cool back then. I used to hang out with the fracks boys, though. Heck yeah. Yeah.

I love that. Dude, Western News, like legendary parties, man. My best friend was, what is he sick? I forget what it is. I want to say the wrong thing on camera, but up there on frat row was always a blast. About 30 kegs up there. summertime it was the best. We used to have these mudslide parties.

All the girls in bathing suits, 20 kegs around, mudslide. In more than one way. Yeah. Yeah. More than one way. It was like that in Westwoods, Dan. It was really like that.

Like, I had some, the best times of my whole entire life. In Morgantime. I could only imagine. Legend. And people are like, oh, Morgantown ain't got no girls. All those girls up there with no teeth. Bullshit. That is cap.

My boy, don't believe that shit. All you got to do is go up there one time and you'll figure it up. Now, did they, when you're returning a punt in Morgantown, are they like chanting anything? Oh, yeah. Was there a Pac-Man chant going into the stadium? Yeah. I didn't know how good I was after the Miami game. Backman.

That Miami game, like, I could even walk around campus after that. What did you do? I had a really good game that game. That was like my breakout game. I had a pick. I had probably about 14 tackles, two-pass break-up. That was the game I smacked, slap Kevin Winslow. Oh, good.

Yeah. I smacked the shit out. Yeah. When I came, when we came back and we lost that game by a field goal, I mean, the whole town was waiting on this. Like, we had won the game. And since that game, that Miami game, like everything was nine in West Virginia.

So, yeah, it was crazy. Oh, that was a Thursday night game, too. Thursday night. Yeah. Jeez. Whole country was watching that one. Pack, walk me through. your thought process before you're about to return a punt.

I'm always always interested. What are you looking at? Nothing. As long as I can catch it, I feel like I can win with my first step. I'm always been like that. Yeah. And like-

Get to return side? Nah. I don't really. You're bored it. It depends on how it is when I first catch it. I've never been one of them guys like, oh yeah, three steps left. The turn is right.

If I go three steps left, I ain't nobody else I'm going left. And this, this don't caught me a couple times, but I've got away with him way more times than I've got caught with it. But like, I believe me, they got to let me catch the ball. Yeah. You've got to let me kiss the ball.

I feel that I can win. Yeah, I mean, you had like God touch speed. Oh, I had to run puns differently. I always like, when I, caught the punt, I would go directly, I would start attacking everyone. Because all that's doing is setting up my blocks for everyone else to get to their. And then I'd, so I'd always tack to the middle of the field. And then I would get to my, my return side.

And then you look for one foot, put it in the ground, then split and go. Pac-Man was already bawling by the time you got in the league. Were you looking at his film at all for returning points? What did you notice? What did you like? I couldn't watch it because he was so fast that like a lot of the shit that he, I couldn't do that. He could like reverse field and fucking outrun everyone. Like I was a very north-south use my quickness and vision.

Like, packed it too. But like it was just a different thing because the holes that he hit, like only like one person, two people, three people can hit those holes because they're getting up and they're going. You know, I had to be a little more creative with my shit. First devil pretty good, though. It was good. man um how

can you explain to everyone the importance of special teams I talk about it on Sunday it's the to me is one of the biggest part of the game yeah it's field position field position shit if you're starting

plus or past the the 35 40 yard line two first downs you got points yeah on opposite side if you fair I mean, catching the ball on the fucking eight-yard line,

and they got to go 92 yards. So, like, I think, and if you're in the lead, you understand how big special teams is. Like, these fucking gunners that's out here running, like, bro, they got one of the hardest jobs in the league. When we was in there, kickoff and kickoff return, those are collisions every fucking time.

Not just one time. I'm talking about big-ass guys. I'm talking about we had some big ones. I'm talking about fast, two, linebackers, 2, 75 that was running 4'5. That's what I'm steaming. Like, it's, I ain't going to say the most important,

but to me it's the most important part of the game. It's a third. And we can see it, though. Like, you miss a field goal, you miss a kick. You lose by two. Block a kick. And normally if you're winning the field position and the turnover, statistics say you should win the game.

Definitely. And it's so crazy with the new rules because the touchback automatically to the 35, the field position is different, the new K-balls, these guys are kicking at fucking 90 yards now. Like, so the game is, it's, if you could dial those situations down, you could win a lot of games. And when we play, you know, they couldn't focus. with the ball. The kickers couldn't...

No. They had... Now the kickers get the motherfucker right. That's why we send all these longer field goes and shit. And all these guys pooch kicking the goddamn ball from the 10-yard line and it's going 65 yards. It's

because they're playing with the balls now. That's what all the guys used to want to be able to do. Back when we were playing, they're like, oh, don't even put that in there. It's too nice of a ball. Yeah. For practice, you got one right out the box. be all hard.

And you look at a team like now, the Rams, man. Great defense, great offense. Special teams, that might be their downfall. That could be. Special teams defines toughness. That's what people, it's a momentum part of the game. If you could stop, like if you could cover kicks and you could return kicks and you can,

that's like what we're always defined as a tough football team. If you could cover kicks, stop the run. And like that was like how you were. Y'all had one of the best. What's the boy who y'all had? Matthew Slater. What? I hated his ass.

Like, bro, double his ass time you get off the bus, bro. He had a motor too. Motor. Motor. Dude. Slate. Slate would spend two and a half hours in practice doing like this, these crazy just gunner drills.

Yeah, I can believe. You know? You know, that's Jackie Slater's son. I ain't know that. That's Jackie Slater. Yeah. Jackie Slater. right tackle.

Yeah. Hall of Fame, probably the greatest right tackle. He proved out fast-ass slate. That motherfucker can run, boy.

And Jack is like six, five, big ass dude. Slate's like world-class speed. Yeah. He can run. Talk about the importance of special teams.

The 2010 San Diego Chargers were number one in the league in offense, number one in the league in defense, missed the playoffs because they had a terrible

special teams. Yeah. Easy. Bold heads, no. Three phases. Three phases. this of the game.

Now, talk to us about your NFL stops. You drafted six overall to the Tennessee Titans. Jeff Fisher. Love fish, man. How was fish? Fisher was one of one. He was like a country music rock star out there. Yeah, he was.

Like, I still talk to fish to the day. Punter turn. Yeah. He was just too, he was, he treated me like his son. I just, he went hard enough on me and I was fucking, at that age, bro, I was young. dumb, I would say, like, I just enjoy life. I wasn't

homing in on the little things, I will say. But, like, I play hard, like, you had no problems with me when I'm at the stadium. Like, I've never had a problem with no coach about me practicing, preparing for the game. Now, when I leave that, motherfucker,

it might be a different story. Where's Tutsis? Where's Tutsis? Where's Majesty? Let's go have a beer, boys. They got special Keg's legs Yeah, but Fisher was, man Fisher, Fisher

Fisher is by far like he really cared about me and when I was going through all that shit when I got suspended and when I came back he's like what you want to do? I'm like, man, I'm ready to get the fuck out

this country ass time. He's like, you sure? Like, yeah, man, I need a fresh start and like he's like, I want you just go home and think about it. He came to my house. We had a, had a beer.

And I, like, I think it's best for me to go somewhere else. And he's like, if that's what you want. And they all owed, like, $9 million. They had, like, postponed it. I let them keep four of it. And I took the other five. And then I ended up getting trade to Dallas, the Jerry World. Jerry World was good.

Like, Jerry was unbelievable to me. The team, we had Romo, it was more of, more glitz and glamour than motherfuckers were in about football. You know what I mean? What was the girl? He was dating. Jessica Simpson. It wasn't, like, in Tennessee, we was tight as a team. Cincinnati, they didn't have the culture that I was used to, but once I got there, I kind of got the culture.

culture like how I wanted it but in Dallas everybody you know what I mean want nobody staying late to do the little things motherfuckers in and out you know I mean and you got realized everything big in general like everything shit the kicker is getting paid a million dollars that's not even kicking the backup kicking everybody got a car deal like so it was Dallas was cool but it wasn't football It wasn't nowhere near to bit some of the places I played. And then I got to Cincinnati. The culture was shitty as fuck at first.

It was all about Ocho. And Ocho was an eye guy. I'll say that. That's my boy. But it wasn't like he was worrying about everybody else or doing shit to get the team together. You know what I mean? And we were sorry for the first two, three years.

And when I got there, everybody was talking about how sorry Cincinnati was. Damn, me, Vontes, Barfick, um, uh, Gil, um,

Gino Akins, AJ, we kind of changed the whole culture. 1,000%. You listen to the playoffs, like eight years in a row. Our whole thing is, look,

bro, we ain't helping nobody up. Got some, you got some friends on the other team or family. We'll talk to them after the game. We had like a fine system, too, like, man,

I wish you would help a motherfucker up while you tackling him out here and they out here trying to kill us. Perfect. Probably took it to a whole other level, though, didn't you? Oh, yeah. Perfect. No, Kiki with him, bro.

Perfect. Nobody, buddy. Like, if you seen 5'5 off the field, you wouldn't believe how nice of a person he was. But boy, once he put that shit on. If he was like that in practice, too. Yeah. You're talking about it.

It was some practice. I bet you he's a guy. Coach Lewis had to stop practice. Like, go ahead, bro. If he was on your team, you love him. You love him. It's just he has such a. terrible reputation because

No, he was a hard assassin now. Huh? He was a hot assassin. Yeah. But that's kind of how the game was. That was like the tail end of when that game was going there. The crazy part is first two years he played like that, they rewarded him. They paid them big money. Yeah. And then all the rules came

is like, oh, you can't hit him this way. You can't hit them that way. And I think that took a lot. Mentally, I know it fucked him up. Because like He's been playing the game this one way for so long, and then he get rewarded for playing the game like that. And then all of a sudden you say, hey, man, you can't hit nobody like that. You can't do this.

Goldstein, over him, he was a safety. That was the last breed of when you could start hitting, the high-paid hitting guys. Yeah. They all started dwindling away. Yeah. All because of Will Smith in that goddamn movie. Tell the truth.

Tell the truth. All because of Will Smith in the movie. I just remember when Vantes almost killed A B. Still haven't seen it. Yeah, that game was wild. Yeah. What? We was literally trying to kill AB though.

I was all, I remember that game. I was awesome. I was the truth. Like, we was. And then Juju lit out, lit up perfect too. That game was right. As a mutual observer of that game.

Why are you guys trying to kill A.B? It was just little antics he was doing and little, little lame-ass shit that we just didn't agree with. All the shaking it. We went with that shit, bro. Like, we was real football players. Like,

and we had a bun in our locker room like hey bro we don't want to see this shit today like if you go across the middle you're getting killed like run slant I don't even bro kiss the ball little look you're not twerking on us that's just how we was and

I'm telling you bro from from I would say 2009 to 15 I don't think nobody wanted to go over the miller or like,

catch the ball, run the slant or a dig and win a fucking cup before. Like, we would tell the safety, bro, don't even worry about him running the post. We got the post.

If he run this dig, bro, you need to take your face mask and run it straight through his face mask. We're going to chip in to pay the fine. Are teams doing that these days, you think? Nah. Football's soft. Did that come into your locker room when you play the Bengals?

Like, hey, just be careful in front of the middle. Hey, they like to do X-1-Z. When we played these guys, we'd have, on Wednesday, we'd have a 15 to 25 play cut up of all, like, after the play antics from what they do. So we wouldn't watch the play. We'd watch Bill would sit there. I look, look, Pac-Man's going to try to get in your fucking grill.

He's going to try to get you pissed off. Just remember. The second guy always gets the fucking penalty. Like, just little reminders of that. Like, perfect. This guy, he's going to keep on hitting you. Now, fellas, you got to protect yourself and you got to protect your teammates. Watch out.

You know what I mean? Like, that's how it was. You'd have a 30-plag cut up. All the antics, they're going to hit you. They're going to talk shit. Don't get a fucking penalty. That was the one thing. Don't get the penalty.

I just love fucking woodbill. I remember we play, um, Tennessee we played the Patriots in Tennessee. And I forget what happened. I ran down the sideline. I said, kick me the fucking ball. I ain't kicking you the fucking ball. And damn show shit, he kicked one straight down the middle.

I took that motherfucker back to the house. I run back down the sideline. I'm listening to him. He said, I told you not to kick him the fucking ball. After the game, what else? Actually, I had him when I was with Pat on Pat McAfee's show. He's like, Pack, you remember that play? I like, yeah, I remember that play.

He's like, I told that motherfucker not to kick you the ball to. But, yeah. Bill was one of the best when it came to special teams, too. Oh, he took time with it. Yeah. And he knew it. He was a special team coordinator. That's what people don't realize.

Back in 75 when he was with the Baltimore Colts, he started on special teams. I can believe it. And I remember, you know, I tell a story all the time about we were doing shit in kickoff team. And Bill got mad at the coordinator. and came in, took over the meeting, went player for player on everyone's responsibility, installed a play right there on the dime,

and we housed a kick that week. He goes, you're going to take MDM, you're going to hairpin turn it, you're going to do this. You just fucking run. Special teams. Special teams. 2006, week 17,

Pack took it to the house. 85 yards. 85. What was your long? 85? I think that Philly game was the longest one I had. I got a little breaking news. Mike Tomlin just stepped down.

What? Wow. He stepped down? You think they made him step down? No, I think he just went out too. Yeah. Mike been doing that a long time, bro. I think he wanted to come to you know.

He should. Tell him to come right up on Fox. It'll be made out there. You know? Dang, I didn't think he would step down, though. I would have thought he would have came back one more year. I thought Ann Rogers would have went back and played with him one more year, too. He's going to do the Sean Payton.

Take a year on TV. See what the landscape of the NFL is. See how, you know, learn everything. Talk right about people. Get people to think that you're charming this, that. And then the next time that jobs open up, it'll be the pick. Bell's whistle.

That's a long time, though, 19 years. The end of an era. 18. AFC North. 18. 8.C. North. Long time, man. So you made it tell me, Tomlin.

18 years, 19 years, one of the two out. Horrible. 18 years, 19 years. Out. And we still got Taylor over there? Stephansky. Sirfansky. Man, that was this fucking guy here.

You don't like Savansky? No. You don't think he's good? No. He had a good year, but he had a couple of good years, but I don't think he's a good coach. Why? Resumates to be for itself.

The good year he had a good team. In Cleveland, bro, with Baker. And then I don't know how it went down or what went down to get Deshaun there. But the very next year they bring in the Sean a year after they didn't do very well after they won a playoff game with Baker. I think that organization just ran crazily. They were play away from the AFC championship game. A play away. And then he gets Joe Flacco off the couch and he goes to the playoffs.

He's a two-time coach. I don't know. Only two years, though. Look at this track record besides those two years. Shitty as hell. Pretty bad. Is that hammer? Is that just the Browns?

The Browns has always been shitty. Yeah. As long as I played, the Browns and the Jets have been the worst teams in the NFL. I think most NFL players can say that. The Jets were kind of good when I first got it. Where year? Nine. Oh, yeah.

That was the year they had. That's when they had. Syedges. Rex Ryan. Bart Scott, San Chito. L.T. The cornerback too. Camardi, Reeve.

Revis. That was tough. They had the white boy, Jimmy Leonard. Can't wait. Who was the other safety? Something other. I was like, that was the deficiencies. Those were the deficiencies. We'll be right back after this quick break. On June 11th, 1998,

the deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all-out manhunt for John A.J. Every search and rescue team in L.A. County has been called into help. Within days, TIP started flooding into the sheriff's department. The ruler around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover-up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department? A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that? Valley of Shadows, a new series from

from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance? I wouldn't do it alone. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's go back into time around where the game took place. This game took place on October 6th, 2013. Let's go over some of the pop culture. movie was gravity.

Was that George Clooney? Yeah, and Sanjewa. That one was kind of sad at the end. Yeah. Incredible filmmaking. This Royals song, like, so Lord by the Royal's song,

number one song, doesn't that sound? She sounds, this sounds like Billy Eilish to me. That is a good con. I think Billy Elish looks like, yeah. This was like Billy Elish

ten years ago. Yeah. I like Billy. I do too. We went to the concert with the little girl. She loved it. Around this time, pop culture, Captain Phillips,

were the Millers and Bad Grandpa were in the box office. You see any of those? No. No, me either. NFL champion Seattle Seahawks. Peyton Manning was the MVP. Jameson Winston Winston was the Heisman Trophy and college football champion. This time of the, what was this?

2000, yep, Bama. I remember that James Winston speech was hilarious. I told my guys, you just going to go out there. he's the guy, bro. I can't get enough of James. I love him. Me too. I love me, too.

He's electric. You know what? He's going to be a classic at the football. Oh, my God. So I was sitting there. I was the guy that's all right, dude. All these, come on, man. It's about playing football.

We don't need to hear about the crab legs or the eating the Ws. This guy's, you know, then he came and worked with us on Fox. He's just a genuine cool dude. Yeah. You think it's a gimmick, but that's him. It's him. Yeah. He's just a good-ass dude that like

Just loves being part of the The group And I'm not a jokester either I'm not either I hate all that joke and shit But he's one of them guys You're like how in the fuck did you just come up with this Do you think he does research before his little?

He has to right? Yes Got to But he does like a mashup Between like what his pastor told him A TikTok thing And then like what he saw on the way to the stadium He like matches a matches

it all up and then he tells everyone his experience and it's honestly really good stuff. Smart as hell. What was life like for Pac-Man in 2013? 2013, it was good. Life was good. Life was good. We were kind of on the up, right?

Yeah. She was just getting back right. You were getting back right. Yeah. Suspension was out. Yeah. I had been in since I had 2013, I signed three for 30. No. I signed a little deal that year, I think. I think it was like two for 15 or something.

And then 14, I signed three for 30. That's why he was always at those clubs making it rain. I suppose he was a hell of money. He made a hell of money. Changing the weather. You ever pick off Peyton? He was the MVP this year? I got Peyton.

I got Eli. I got Brady. I pretty much got all the top guys. Who's your favorite? quarterback to pick off. Yeah, it's got to be Brady. Gotta be Brady. Gotta be.

You keep that ball? Yeah. Hell, yeah. You still have it? I got all my, yes, I do. I got all my interception balls. Every last one of them.

You gotta get all the quarterbacks to sign them now. Oh, I should do that. Where do you keep them back, man? Just in the, you got them on display in the closet. I got an office in my house. Nice. And my wife did her pretty good job of. You got to get the little autograph people to,

follow like Tom or Hayton and just hey man get this one for Pacman. You know you go to like the airports and Fort Lauderdale and there's like 50 people that just want to have you sign a pylon. Why am I signing a pylon right now

in the middle of the airport? Is it always Fort Lauderdale? Fort Lauderdale. I was just there. That's all the reason. That's crazy, bro. How do you find out? All right, let's jump into the game.

Should we hit these bangles real quick? These bangles. 11 and 5, Marv Lewis's 11th season. Jay Gruden was running the offense. here. We talked about Mike Zimmer a little bit, DC, some great rookie class this year. Tyler Ifer, Jill Bernard, Rex Burkhead.

Damn, if Tyler Ifer don't get hurt, he'll be one of the best tight end. Oh, he was unbelievable. He was a monster in this game. He had his neck and back problems. Man, one of the AFC north tight ends. Rex Burkehead was a monster. We took him and we want a Super Bowl. He was cold white boy. What? You've ever seen him play basketball? Yes, he can dunk that bitch

and shoot it. Yeah. Yes. Rex was a guy. I'm not sure I ever saw him get negative yards. He was always moving for, always falling forward. What a great teammate, too. He reminded me of McCaffrey. He, he, kind of, I think McCaffrey's a little bigger, thicker. I don't know, man, Rex was.

Man, I'm talking about it. And Rex had, he can get up through there, too. I'm talking about he was so quick in and out. East. We took him from you guys. Yeah. We went on with them. Yeah.

He was, he scored in the AFC championship to make. us go to the Super Bowl. And overtime. Like overtime. Yep. Mendevlin in there. Right out of the back field. Could catch the ball.

Yes. Smart. Good on special teams too. Great on special teams. Fucking put his head in there. What an underrated career. Beast. Yeah.

Love Rex. This was a AFC North winning team. One that won it for the first time since 2009. Also got a note featured on Hard Knocks training camp, which is always, always tough. A lot of dudes on this team. I mean, this was a very fun team to go back and look through. You got AJ Green in his third year balling out.

You got young Andy Dalton. You got Ben Jarvis Green Ellis, another former patriot. Muhammad Sunu, Witt, back, of course. Vantes Berth who talked about. Carlos Dunlap. And you got James Harrison. Weird to see him not in a Steelers uniform this year. Yeah, that was a crazy year.

Crazy, man. Who do you all play in the playoffs this year? I want to say the charges. Yeah, this was San Diego. The year before the good football team. Yeah. You look at this roster. You had Joan?

There's one thing that's on there that fuck this up. One thing? Yeah. What do you think, Willis? Let me see. Fucking quarterback. Hey, the red rifle. Red rifle.

Man. Could not take the pressure, bro. He looked good in the regular season, though. Yeah, he did. When that pressure get on him. He always had good numbers. Look at the receivers he had. I know.

And running backs. This was in Gino came in, little Bernard. Yeah. He was a great third down. He was back here in those Sproles routes. Then, Benny. This is the year that he left.

Hawk. We had Hawk before that, too. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. AJ Hawke. See, I never played that much against AJ. Hawk was a dog. Oh, was good.

He got in the league probably what? Remember he did that thing with Michael Irvin. He came in kind of late. Yeah. I forget the show that Michael Irvin had. And then he went to Dallas Then we picked him up on practice squad And the little fucker

He just worked his ass off man Like I used to I used to literally had to hit his ass I'm like bro It is weak 14 And you're out here running

fucking full speed bro Like you're on the scout team Slow the fuck down Yeah And but Hulk Hogue knew one way Well he his dad was the wrestler Right

Isn't his dad the wrestler I don't know. I don't think so. AJ Hawk? No, no, no. I'm talking about Little Hawk. Oh, Lil Hawk. Oh, Andrew.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought we're talking, AJ. Me too. Way off. Hawkins was hell of good, too. He got about him. He came to us. Yeah.

I think two years later. Now, this is a good football team. How much is Chato Chosenko, like, hamming it up for Hard Knocks? How much is Chatton Chosenko hamming it up for Hard Knocks? Or is he just really actually He wasn't on this, too.

But just in, oh, you wouldn't have been there for him. Bengals were in 2009 and also on hardnoughts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's been on almost every hard knocks. It feels like. Yeah, yeah. Now, are you a skyline or gold star guy? Neither.

We ask every, everyone that has a Cincinnati. Cinnamon, isn't it? Finally some truth. It's not real fucking chili, bro. I know. I like the West Coast chili. I like my, like, some ground beef of my chili. Yeah, it's like lamb or something, isn't it?

It's like Greek chili. I don't know. It's pasty as hell, though. And you put it on noodles? Man, they put it on everything, bro. They're putting it on biscuits. All type of shit. It ain't just chili you want to put on a hot dog.

Yeah. Now, is this the best defense you played on? You said this particular year, Donald Wallace Gilberry, Dumbataw. You're missing somebody on there, was Gino Atkins on his team too? These rosters generally miss IR.

So if someone was on IR, I heard. It was good, too. They might not show up. He was a problem. What used this? Yeah, Gino was on this team. I think he ended up on.

13. 13. Yeah, this was one of the best defenses I played on. Yeah. Now, why couldn't these teams get over the hump? Red rifle. You know what? Red rifle was fucking horrible.

What's our podcast name? Games with names. No, what? Pax. Oh, politely raw. Yeah, politely raw. That's true. That's politely raw.

That's politely raw. That's politely wrong. I was slow on the uptake there, sorry. I was trying to guess. Just think about it, bro. We should have, like, even 14 when we had, what's the name from Alabama? Oh, not McCarron.

McCarran, yes. When Andy got hurt, we should have just stuck with McCarron. Dude, he should never went back to Andy. Hindi's still willing. He's running from office now. Can you believe that? Unbelievable. Yeah, he's backing up, he's back in the price of him.

Yeah. crazy, bro. Yeah, McCarron was last playing on the Battlehawks. He's going to be a good coach, though. He's smart. It just... And precious situations. He was Dan Arlowski.

Oh, that's a good comp. Backup quarterbacks know everything that's going on. Yeah. But their backups because they can't do it. They could tell you what to do. Right. They can get the practice to go when the starting quarterback's not there. It'll look like it because he ain't going to get hit in practice.

Me and him, he's 38. When there's live bullets. When I'm live bullets, it's different. There's different. All right, let's do, run through the Pats real quick here. Let's run through the Pats. 2013 Patriots, 12 and 4.

Bill Belichick, of course, Josh McDaniels, Maddie P. Some notable rookies on this team as well. Jamie Collins, Daron Harmon, Logan Ryan. We just saw Logan Ryan out there at the playoff game, getting the crowd going the other night,

him and Dola. Lost to Baltimore in the AFC championship the year before this. This was a year that pretty much he added Dola and Blunt in the offseason, which was big. Amandola. That's my boy.

We love Dolah over here. He was with me in Dallas. Oh, that's right. He used to talk about you all the time. I used to get his ass right. He went from the guy there. He couldn't get off the press. I'm like, I'm a press show as every day until you learn how to get off of it.

Yeah. And he fucking learned it too. But like, man, Madola, I'm still good friends. He worked too, man. And Madola good. He, he's the best thing that happened to me coming over here. Because he brought my play up. You know what I mean?

there's always that competition in the room and you know competition makes the best Iron sharpens iron man and then a lot of you can't talk about this season without talking about the injuries gronk out you got Vreen hurt Dola was banged up early Big Vince went down the week before this

with an Achilles But just a decimated Hernandez Hernandez drama right before the season That's why our offense looked like shit Yeah a lot of key weapons out so We were so our team was built for the 12 personnel We were built for two tight ends.

Rob didn't play the year. Hernandez gets locked up. Then we have all these receivers that are like basically just complimentary receivers to what that was. Right. It's like you got here. This is the transition of our team.

That's true. I wasn't where Hernandez. He's a monster. You loved him. I mean, I don't know. You would have loved them. You guys would have fought at practice. That's cool.

That's a part of it. But he worked hard. He practiced hard. he knew every he was never you can never like stump him with like a question or anything he he was in his playbook yeah he just he talked outlandish shit but everyone just looked at him like he's a wankster like yeah righter man he ate about that he was about it yeah he was he was about it world's up he was he was about it but he was dude he was he was one of the best football players i've ever been around because he was big fast you just he could

And physical. Physical. He ran his, like, routes like a basketball player. You know, he would, he would, like, cross you up at the top of his route.

And he could get out of it. Like, a lot of guys want to do that. Yeah. But they can't get out of it. You know what I mean? He was fucking the real deal. Bro, he and gronged together.

That's just crazy that, like, that existed, that combo. A couple. Now, who is your least patriot? Who's your least favorite patriot to play? Is there a guy on the,

That you battled? That I just did not like playing against? I would say Slate. Slate? Slater. Slater? Yeah. I hated him.

Matthew. I would tell you double his ass time he'd get off the bus, bro. He just had a motor. And like, I enjoyed doing the punt returns and kick returns. Because that was my way of getting back on the offense. the side of the ball. But, like, he's one of them guys that you want to know where he had every time. And y'all was moving them around and shit, too.

But far as receiver wise, you was a little feisty, but I didn't get to see you much because you was in the slot. And also, you, I came on later. Yeah. I was, like, still a baby here. I was still a baby here. And you, you were what? You're probably in, like, your eighth year here?

Ninth? Ninth year? What is this? 14? I mean 13. 13th season. Damn, I played long as time now. Yeah, he did.

Now, what was it like prepping for, like, Tom? For you guys. What was your keys? You guys just had to disguise everything? We had to because, like I'm telling you, y'all never showed, whatever y'all did last week, you definitely not doing it the next week. Game playing offense. We always game playing new for the team.

Everything is. going to be different. And I'll never forget. We play it. Y'all had just got blew out by somebody. Kansas City. And we had to come play y'all in Foxboro. The next year.

Foxboro. The next week, man, y'all beat the shit out of us. That's when the ball flake shit was going on. And our whole thing, we got to, we had the disguise. And we knew that he knew pretty much everything in the book. Like, we was doing shit out of the ordinary. Like we in cover two, I'll say. We had single high.

I'm 10 yards off. I ain't even coming up until the ball is snap. And I might be late making the play in the flats. But like we tried our best to disguise everything until the ball is snap. Because if you give any pre-reads before the ball is snap, he pretty much going to know what you're in. And we were, it looked when you watched the film, he had us confused. Like we had the wrong game plan for what they were doing if you watch it. Like, because I could always tell by what coverage they were playing and what route concepts we were in, they weren't matching.

Like they'd be playing like some sort of zone and we'd be playing like on a man. We'd be doing like a man concept, which means they got us pre-snap to stay in the play with their disguise. And usually if you're running a man concept against, you know, zone, that ain't going to work. That's how guys get blown up. You know what I mean? So that's the chess match pre-snap that DB's defensive guys always talk about when they have to disguise something.

They're trying to get the wrong play in for their offense, and they were doing it very well this game. Yeah, Zim did a good job of disguising with us. That's why that mug and the A-gap thing, what I was just talking about earlier, we pretty much did that shit the whole game. Mugging the A-gap being two guys in the A, like the two linebackers are in the A gap.

You don't know if they're coming or not. So, and when he said they jump out to cloud, that means that's covered to like a zone. Zero means they're all coming. Or they can do like a one rat. Or they can drop a guy funnel, like all the, they'll play you a man and funnel you into the middle and they'll drop one of those guys.

So that guy comes out and picks you. So it was good stuff. So two and two, Sinci coming into this one, coming off a loss to Cleveland, 17 to 6. So A.J. Green was balling as well. We talked about him. He's in his third year, bawling out. Patriots enter this thing. 4-0, 2-0 in the AFC, just coming off a win against Atlanta.

But Vince Wilfork tore his Achilles at game, so that was a big loss. Going on the road here to Sinci, trying to get this road win without Big Vince in the middle. Should we hit the game real quick? Yeah. Game-wise, from the beginning, these guys. were getting to Tom. He started off with a big Gino Atkins sack. Follow that up with a Wallace Gilberry sack. And it was clear

this was going to be a tough day. Getting Tom off the spot. Dropping guys. We saw that on the tape. Dropping a lot of guys getting those coverage sacks. Pack almost picks off Tom. You were pee dropping fools. Yeah. On third down. And then you guys were getting rushed with Gino, Atkins. And we, like, I was like, there's like four guys around me.

Why am I running? Just uncomfortable all day for Tom in the offense. Pack almost picks off Tom. on a third and seven at the end of the first quarter, which was tough. And then we get into the second quarter, Andy Dalton's first career, first of many,

red zone interception, rolling right, throws back across his body. That was Brandon Spikes getting that one. Patriots go down, nothing on offense, trying to manufacture anything. We had that end around of jewels there.

So like that interception that Annie Dalton through, that's like what like every coach preaches to the quarter Right. Don't do that. If you're a kid that wants to know what not to do, go watch this. But the thing is nowadays, everyone does it. Everyone does it now. But back in the day,

like, I remember I threw a pick like that when I was playing quarterback, the coach. He said, don't even come to the fuck. Go. Just go, go. He kicked me off the field. It was bad, bro. Textbook bad. Then Carlos Dunlap forces a fumble in the second,

which was big, since he takes over their own 30 goes down. You guys that ball player. Finally get some points in this game. a Mike Nugent field goal makes it 3-0. And then to avoid being shut out for the first time since 2011, Patriots get a drive going. Stivo gets a 42-yarder, 3-3 at the half.

It's an ugly grinded-out game. We'll be right back after this quick break. On June 11, 1998, the deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all-out manhunt for John A.J. Every search and rescue team in L.A. County has been called into health. Within days, TIP started flooding into the sheriff's department. The ruler around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of.

Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover-up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department? A homicide captain saying, Detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin. industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

I wouldn't do it alone. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Half time. What are you guys thinking? Just keep it close. Andy don't fuck the game. I mean, the defense has been bowling.

enforcing, I mean, if you go by the drive chart, Patriots, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, fumble, punt, field goal. A high level question just being in the NFL, when there's clearly, like, the defense is better than the offense or the offense is clearly better than the defense, and it's like starting to cost the team games? Like, what's that like in the locker room? Is there like animosity built up? Or like, how does that, how does a team operate that has such disparity in the types of

units that are playing and how the while they're playing? I don't know if I could say that I've played a team. they're just so much better than this. I don't think no team is like that in the NFL. Like you might have better scheme and shit. But talent-wise, if you are starting on defense or starting on offense in the NFL,

you pretty much got a chance to win the game. It ain't just doubt in that their better than us. Now, a lot of shit come down to third down. You win third downs. Get the field position. Do good on special teams. You give yourself a chance. You know what I mean?

But I don't know. you've been on way better teams than I have. I mean, like, internally. Like, look, this year's Bengals team. Like, the offense is putting up crazy numbers, but how many games did they lose from the defense? Like, does that start to, like, eat at the locker room? Yeah.

I've never been in those. I haven't been in a situation really like that. So it's hard. I have with Andy. Does it eat the locker room apart? I ain't going to eat apart, but we end up in the mother like, God damn, can he just fucking?

and not turn the ball over. Like, it was, you start, it's, you start hearing a little, little noise in there, especially when we plan a fucking 80 play game. Yeah. Back to back, 80 plays. 80 plays. 80 plays. That's a lot of plays.

So, yeah. 80 plays for them means a lot of three and outs for the, oh. A lot of offense. Yeah. Yeah. Not great. Not good. Speaking of three and outs also.

Yeah. This was a great, I mean, this was no shortage of punts in this game. Jules, you open the second half for the big 24-yard return. But then, Pac, you were out there returning them early. Why did they put Brandon tape back there? I was tired as hell. I feel that. Yeah.

So, like, I had the choice to go back there or not. Okay, I feel you. And then, like, if it's end-over-in kick, put tape back. Plus 59. Yeah. Yeah. Wasting my time for me. And I don't like fair catch.

And I think I got nine fair catches in my whole career. That ruins my, that ruined my average. I ruins your average if you don't like the fair catch. Yeah. Like, all these kids at fair catch, they have great averages. Right. But if you got dog in you,

you might have lower average because you don't fair catch. And I fucking learned that out about Pro Bowl, too. I forget what you was. I had a lot of good returns, too. And I miss leading the NFL by yards

by like, I think, maybe a yard. I had a $500,000 all the bonus in my contract. My special thing coach, say, yeah, you stupid motherfucker. All you had to do is fair. some of these balls you'd be a height.

Oh my gosh. It was also tough for us because we're going against Hester. Hester, his average, I had a 15-2 average one year. His average was 18. It was a record. Like, and 13 is an insane average.

Yeah. You know what I mean? That bad year. And then he had a hell of a special team unit. that year too. Oh my. Who?

The Bears. Bears, they always did. Yeah. They always did. It's unbelievable. I mean, he alone has 14 punt return touchdowns just once.

Hall famer. Factor in kicks. Hall famer for specialties. Man, I mean, it's nuts. Now, this became a torrential downpour.

In the fourth. Yes, sir. In the fourth. Right on time. Right on cue. Two minutes and change, I think. Three minutes.

Unbelievable. Patriots go no huddle a lot in the third quarter here now. We'll fast, we gotta, we gotta, yeah. Me and, me and Pack had a match up and he actually got the best of it on the red area. This is, this is third and goal.

I dropped it. Third, third goal and the fourth. I dropped it. From the one, Jewel's back. I was still like in the hype of like, I'm playing against Pac-Man Jones. Because he goes to strip clubs and shit.

Like, that's how hyped I was playing against Pac-Man. He's over here trying to fucking take him off my head. shit. I was like, what the... What kind of shit would you say to him? He probably just said, he was slow. He was saying you were a white boy. Slow-ass white boy. But I got him on a stopper.

Yeah, he did. He felt the speed there. There it is. Oh, man. So Patriots had to settle for three there. Packed with the great PbU on that one in the back. That was a drop. I don't think there was a PBO. That was a PBO. I think I dropped it. I think I got my hand through that. I don't know, man. The pictures shows.

Look, you got your... hands around me. I dropped it. Oh, no. Oh, my gosh. Oh, no. It was breast cancer. Gene's territory's got the pink wristbands.

What are we doing? Did you see that they had pink flags? Yeah. Back in these days. They were throwing pink flag. They were throwing pink flags. They were going to D with the pink flags. They were going OD with the pink dog.

Man. And then, so that brings us to about, so we talk about the past breakup. The Patriots. get another field going there. So it's 13-6. A comeback is still possible. Moving down the field,

the rain is coming down insanely hard now. So when the rain starts to come, like, are you guys swapping gloves out? Is there anything you're doing differently now that the rain is changing so much? Definitely swapping the gloves.

Leather gloves. Yep. Okay. Anything else? Cleats or anything or just gloves? Well, it was too late in the game, I think,

and this is the swap the cleats out. But we really kept the same cleats because that, because we had field. It's the graph. Yeah, okay. Yeah. The thing is,

so it starts pouring like it's two minute drill and we just get the ball and I think there's like a buck 20 or something for us and we have to go score a minute 48 win or to try to win. You're a touchdown. Look at Dola and it's fucking pouring rain

it's a torrential downpour and I'm like sitting there I'm I always go to like the center the center always had a little extra dry towel I'd always hit the center for a little then I'm looking at everyone's towel and Dola finally fucking grab is my towel and he throws it on the rose,

there is no fucking towels right now. Look how ready it is. There is no towels. I'm saying, oh, fuck. And then you lost. And then we lost. There were so many drops on that last drive. It was just coming down so hard.

But I mean, credit to this Patriots offense, they end up getting in field goal range, getting in scoring range. From the 27. Back ended it. I know. Get down to the 27. Thank God for Reggie on this play, though.

Why? Because we was in cover three. and it was all go. Yeah. And Reggie was like, look, just bail. I'm going to get the fucking number two guy. I promise you. Just stay in between, but I'm going to get the number two guy.

Do not let him throw the fade to the number one guy. I looked at him out. The fuck you know it's going to be all go. And sure shit's thing, it was all go. All go. The same play that the Philadelphia Hagles ran that everyone's been bitching about him the last whole week. This all goes like a

That's kind of like Hard play Made in Cup 3 Hard play Those seams usually open Yeah It's a three by one Formation I think too

It was Try to get the guy In the crosser Then bring this guy here So you put that safety In a predicament Because we knew we weren't Going to win on the outside

Back ended it With 26 seconds left Tom Brady's streak Of 52 straight games With a touchdown pass Ends And that sealed the game 136

Bengals win it Hey, Dola, if he didn't fucking spashe him out He could have a touch down You see that spasping around like a dead fish on the goal line He looked like a beetle when you put him on his back He's like, can't get out Oh my God That was a fucking good game

What a game All-timer man Dude, now rank this Rain game, snow game Cold game, hot game Which one would you rather play in? As a DB or punt return or I should say

Either or All right I like I would rank Snow games number one For punt return That tells me For punt return

Because you always have the better footing As a punt returner Yeah You can you can slag I would go Ring game number two For Because offenses don't want to throw the ball

Right And it's slippery balls Tip balls Equals equals Interceptions for Pac-Man Means more Serb club I would go

Cold game number three Cold? Cold game? That's a ballsy move because usually cold game defense don't want to tackle, but shit, Pac-Man wants to tackle in the day. The offense guys don't want to get hit when it's cold either, though. That's true. And the ball's hard. Ball's hard. Harder to catch. And I will go hot game last just because you pull more shit in the hot games, hamstrings, grins, and shit. It's a grind in the hot game. You got to eat, you got to drink.

And me going out the night before, you got to fucking take an IV before the game. and then maybe even halftime ivy for you. Yeah. I really like, like I hated going playing down in Miami. Yeah. The September game in Miami was brutal. We lost it every year. And that sideline, you get no shade? Zero shade.

And they put you in the color and they'd be in the white so you get hotter. We know your fucking tricks. Then in the cold games, you got the heated bench right there. That's true. I like cold games. Me too. Because it was always an advantage, too, for people that didn't like cold games.

Like when we playing like the Chargers and the ASC championship or something they're coming from L.A. It's fucking 12 degrees outside. There's no way

they're gonna want to play. It's like Derwin James out there the other day in shorts and like no shirt, no pan, nothing trying to act tough. There's only 30 on. I know.

Nah, I like Derwin. Dern is a monster. I like Derwin. All week I had to hear about him like he was Ed Reed, man. It drove me nuts. Man, he's one of the best. But still.

San Diego got mad because I said they had a no-name defense. Or the L.A. L.A. The defense is good. Is two people out two is really good? Cleo Max. Cleo Max, but like, oh no, whatever his name is.

Yeah. Cleo Mac. This is 14th year or something. Yeah, he's been around well. You know what I mean? It's tough. It's a little no-name to me, at least. That's out of like two or three dudes.

Now, Pac-Man, what would you guys do after you guys won this game? Was it you guys were pretty hyped? Oh, yeah. We had a long night. Nice. Long night. Now, what was Coach Lewis like after a big win? Coach Lewis always been the same.

Just chill? Chill. All right, fellas now. All right. Yeah, we're all right next week. You sure, a lot of emotions there or not there. But Coach Lewis was even kill. Zim.

Zim is, you're going to know if he's happy or not, God damn, immediately. How do I pack? Yeah, buddy. You motherfuckers! See, I told your ass getting in the A gap. Zim got the game ball after this one. Yeah.

You got a game ball? Zimmer did. Zimmer did. Oh. I mean, you guys outplayed us. This was, wasn't even close. Yeah, that was a good night. It was a good night.

And then talking about the rest of these seasons, the Patriots went 12 and 4, six time and 11 seasons. They went undefeated at home. Lost of Denver in the AFC championship game. had to go out there, 26, 16. Keeb got hurt. If Keeb didn't get hurt, we would have won the game.

Shout out Keeb, man. Since he would finish 11 and 5, won the AFC North, as we mentioned earlier, but then would lose to San Diego on the wildcard around 2710. And that was a third straight wildcard loss for those. Andy had two-piced that game. Yeah, dog it. You know, like that's, like that right there,

I just went down Memory Road. Like, when I watch these Niners, I'm like, it's got to catch up to them, not having your best offenders because we were playing against a good Denver team in the AFC championship. They were really good. Granted, we lose one player, Akib Talib, and literally we lost the game

because it fucked up our whole deep. You know what I mean? You lose one of your guys. How can San Francisco go on a run when they're missing all their guys? That was when they cheap shot it had to keep too, wasn't it? Yeah, it was on the pick. Yep.

I remember that. Bullshit. People don't forget. We miss anything from this game? Pac? Nah. All right. Let's name the game and let's score the game.

Let's see where it ranks. We got some of these names that we came up with. If you have a game that you, if you have a name that you want to call it, we can do that. We have the Rumble in the Rain game. We have the Make It Rain game. I like that one. I like that one.

The Pac-Man called game, Pac-Man called game, game over the Mike Zimmer game. Which one do you like? I'm going to be not selfish. And I'm going to go with the Mike Zimmer. game. There it is. Because the game plan that he put together was fucking unbelievable. All right. I think we could do a hybrid, though.

What if we do the Mike Zimmer? Make it ring game. Make it ring. Yeah, I like that. Mike Zimmer, make it rain. Make it rain. Brought to you. Now I'm picturing Mike Zimmer in Magic City.

Making the rain. Let me fire. That would be so funny to have Mike Zimmer in Magic City. Oh, that would be some funny shit right there. Now, what would be the first thing you'd do? If coach came up there, would you like, do you have like a spot there that's your spot or anything yeah yeah

I'm always in the age so they'd have you they would come up and they'd have your drink ready for you and hey coach come over here man try this they got really good chicken wings coach you hungry yeah that's funny that you're saying that just you got to see

free bird I want to tell everything but all right magic city is in there oh really I got to check it out I'm gonna check it out back if we come to it Atlanta, can we go with you? Yes.

I'll be more than happy. As far as American land works go, it's high on my list. Y'all have a ball. Some of the best food, you're going to eat some good eye candy. Good conversation. Yes.

Great conversation. Lou Williams inspired wings. Great food. Great bar. You know, they got a great mixology. When people think of script club, they don't think of a party.

Right. In Atlanta, the script, you ain't going there to get no pussy. You ain't going, you can't even pay for none. Most of these girls are fucking making way more.

them under than the average blowjo. 90% of them are in school somewhere. But it's more of a party in the entertainment than, I don't know, you're holding a wall where Julie coming out with half a dress and half a high yellow. Yeah, for sure. These are well-oiled American establishments, guys. 100%.

Now, let's score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Decimals and courage, Pat. Stakes. of this week five regular season game, zero to ten decimals encouraged. I would say,

as far as the team, I would give it an 8.9 because we came back and went on the round after that. We was two and two when we played, y'all. I like that. That's some good explanation right there. Context. I'm going to go with the 5.4.

You know, this is early in the season. It's early in the season. I went five one. I don't want you to get mad or anything. our grading scale. We've done World Cup championships. We've done... Olympic gold medals.

Gold medal. We've got a star power, though. Star power zero ten, decimal is encouraged. A lot of stars here, though. Ben. I'm bringing the best quarterback ever, so you got to put it up there with the star power.

I'm going... Desimals encouraged. 8.0. 8.0? Good score. It's a good score. I'm going to go with the 8.2. I agree.

I got a 7.8 I have 7.2 The gameplay of the game now This could be taken in a different bunch of context But as a viewer, as a player Whatever you think the gameplay of this game was Shit, we won, it's a 10 I like it

Gameplay for me Got hemmed up on one So I'm gonna go I got a PBU on you I got hemmed up I'm gonna go at the 7.9 I'm an offensive guy. I want to see some more points.

I went 4.3. I was real hurt on this one as a Patriots. Who the fuck is scoring this thing? The name of the game. We score the name of the game that we came up with. The Mike Zimmer Make It Rain game. I like that. I said,

I's got to be a 10. Yeah, baby. I got to go with a 9. I might have to rescore mine. I think I went low before I knew what it was. I might rescore that. I won with a 3.0. Yeah, see, I didn't know we were going to pick that one.

I'm going to go with a, I got to give it an 8-5 at least. So, 8-5. What does that? I have a 5. Let's see where we are, calculating. It's a 6.82, which that will put us at our new 95th game. It's still above a Stanley Cup final. Yeah, we got to fix that.

9.82, it's just behind the 2016 Olympic Men's Rugby 7, rugby in Rio, and just ahead of the 2018 Stanley Cup final, Game 5, Capital, versus the Golden Knights. What's that AOC divisional realm? Who was that with? Broncos and Patriots. Oh, Gronk. That was the T-Bol.

The Tibo. We ended Tebow. Yeah. Oh, Tbo-Mania. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had to put them down. We'll be right back after this quick break.

On June 11th, 1998, the deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all-out manhunt for. John A.J., every search and rescue team in L.A. County has been called in to help. Within days, TIP started flooding into the Sheriff's Department. The ruler around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover-up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance? I wouldn't do it alone. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the front and the top of the list, if you care. Man, little Patriots heavy.

To be expected. Yeah, to be expected. I actually scored the lowest at all of them. True. Integrity's true. What did the World Series rank for this year?

We haven't done yet. We need to. We're trying to bring you in a lot of top top. Yeah, for sure. That game seven, how incredible is that. If you get a show you,

we'll put it right there at number one. Show, hey, we have the game set of one. Get that translator in here. Dude, he's what we all thought Babe Ruth was.

Yes. Like, he's insane. He goes, he throws 20 strikeouts and have a, Two dongs. Dongs.

Two dongs. That'd be tight. At the park, too. Out of them. Pac-Man, we miss anything about this game? Nah. Except my PbU. I'll give him the shot too.

Hey, man, if I get PbU by Pac-Man, it's a hell of a day. It's a hell of a day. Facts. Everyone go check out the Pac-Man Jones show, politely raw, or Pac-got-C-out-Pack. Pack out the pack? Pack got the pack.

How many podcasts we got now, bro? No, no, no. See, that's the weed right there. Pack got the pack. Pat got the pack. Great name. Great name. Finally the cookies.

Farther than Ohio. King City Garden. Yeah. Anything else? I don't know. Oh, I got a country music song coming out on the 20th. Oh, what? Let's go.

Yeah. Me and Jimmy Allen. It's called Tailgate. Tailgate? I play a little son. We get a little clip. Oh, exclusive. We get a little exclusive?

Take it. Tailgate with Jimmy Allen? Dropping down low at the tailgate. Let's see what we got. I'll fire it up. Tailgate. Who are the best musicians turned, or actors turned, athletes turn musicians? I have that Dion Sanders CD right back there.

A.B. had a banger. Abe had a couple. What's up? Love Bell. Don't leave me, baby. Got a little reggae vibe to it. That's you, Pac? No, that's pretty good.

But yeah, this is, I pretty much wrote all this. This is an SEC right here. This is an SEC song. Heck yes. Hope you get pulled down from YouTube. Blast that thing. Well, it actually comes out today. Oh, comes out today?

Release day, which is next Tuesday. Oh, that's true. So come check it out. Go get it right now. Run up those streams. That's why we were wrong on those. playoff predictions that already happened, but the song.

The song is out today. Lincoln, Mayo. Tailgate. Bire it up. Jimmy Allen and the Pacman Jones. So far. Pack. Thanks for coming on, my dude. Appreciate you for having me, my boy. You know, it's always a blast.

Always. Well, that's been another episode of games with names. Subscribe on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcast, comment again you want us to do. And remember, rate and review. Leave us a five-star review on Spotify. while you're there.

Remember to follow games with names on YouTube, Instagram, X, TikTok, and Snapchat. Comment, a question on YouTube full episode. We'll read the best ones on the future episodes. Leave a message on the old hotline. That number is 424-291-2290, and we'll see you guys next week. Games with names of production of I-HeartRadio

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