Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - Skip Bayless on The Catch | Cowboys vs. 49ers

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Skip Bayless is in studio! The legendary sports broadcaster is with us to go deep on one of the greatest games in NFL history: the 1981 NFC Championship Game aka "The Catch" between the Dallas Cowboys and the San Francisco 49ers. We get into his life in sports media, his relationship with Stephen A. Smith, and a whole lot more.  (00:00) We kick things off. (02:59) Skip joins us on the couch. (52:22) We go back to 1982. (58:50) We  get into the teams. (1:02:23) We get into the game. (1:33:19) We score it. (1:39:57) Do You Know Ball? presented by Liquid I.V.Support the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. January 10th, 1982, Candlestick Park, San Francisco, California. Montana drops back, rolls right, looks to the back of the end zone. Dwight Clark leaps into the fog. This is the catch. Welcome to games with names. I'm Julian.

They're Jack and Kyler, and we're on a mission to finding the greatest game of all time. And we got a great episode today. We got the one and only Skip Bayless. And if you haven't already, drop a like and subscribe to Games with Names. Let's go. Games with Names are production of IHeart Radio. Welcome to Games with Names. Today we are looking at the catch, the 1981 NFC Championship between the Cowboys and the 49ers. the Skip Bayless. Skip in one sentence, why did you choose this game? Because it was the most pivotal game in NFL history. It ended one dynasty, or it was beginning of the end, and it

launched another that could be called the greatest dynasty ever, the Walsh, Montana, 49er dynasty. Is this the greatest game of all time? Remember, you're talking to a lifelong diehard Dallas cowboy fan. So it's hard for me to go there emotionally. But spectator-wise, and I was there for this game as a columnist, I'm up in the press box, it was the greatest spectator game I've ever seen because the 49ers, believe it or not, turned the ball over six times and won the game. Six times? Dallas turned it over three times. So it's a turnover fest. and a touchdown pass fest that culminated with not only arguably the greatest play throw catch ever, but there's another play that we can talk about that happened after the catch that could have

should have canceled the catch by the Dallas Cowboys. So my point is it was good to the last drop, so to speak, and it even had sort of a false bottom to it, which was the Dwight Clark catch. Then there's a Drew Pearson play, one of the great receivers ever, that we can talk about. But, yeah, to me, the greatest spectator game ever.

Oh, man, we've had a lot of games on it. That's pretty convincing when Skip, the King debater, comes on, and he throws his point, his take on why it's the best. Very well said. Now, we'll get into the game. Let's talk about your sports. sports fandom. Yeah. You're from Oklahoma City. I am. Dallas Cowboys

Phenom fan. How did this all start? So I'm 10 years old, fourth grade had an uncle who was an assistant high school football coach in Dallas named Jim Bell, assistant football and basketball coach. And he knew how much I love both those sports. And so he badgered my parents. My into bring him to Dallas on a weekend because we got this new team in town called the Cowboys. And they're battling at that point with the other team in town, the Texans who eventually became the chiefs. Because Lamar Hunt moved, he said, I can't fight with the Cowboys anymore. I got to move to Kansas City. Could I have some water?

Do you guys have some water? Oh, oh, didn't even see this. So my parents, not sports fans. One weekend in the fall said, okay, we want to go to Dallas for vacation for a weekend, but we'll drag you, I was the oldest, we'll drag you along. And on Sunday, we'll take you to the Cotton Bowl, the old Cotton Bowl, to see this game. And my team at that point, this is way before your time, was the St. Louis Cardinals. They were not the Arizona, the St. Louis Cardinals, because that was the only team.

we could get on television in Oklahoma City at that point. So every Sunday I'm watching the St. Louis Cardinals. Oldest organization in football. That is correct. And they are throw it 75 times a game team. They're fun to watch. And I was addicted to watching them. So I picked the St. Louis Cardinal game.

And we go to the old cotton bowl and it's like half full. And the Cardinals won 34 to 24. and yet I'm looking at these uniforms of the home team and they got the big white stars on the shoulders and stars on the helmets and that metallic blue and it just got in my eyes and then it got in my soul. And I left the cotton bowl at age 10 thinking

I kind of loved the home team. And from that point on, I was hooked. And I often ask kids I meet New York, LA, wherever I am, how did you become a Dallas cowboy fan in New York? My wife Ernstine and I used to run into kids all the time walking on when I worked at ESPN. We'd be walking on 8th Avenue on Saturday

and we'd see lots of cowboy jerseys and hats. What happened to you? It was the jerseys. You know, the jerseys get them. Yeah. And it does. It just gets in your eyes and you just think that's so cool. And it just creates generations of cowboy fans,

and that's why they are quote unquote America's team. They're actually the world's team. Are they still? I think they are. They are? Well, I mean, every year I look at the final TV ratings for the season. And I see the top five games every year feature the Dallas Cowboys. Every year it's like clockwork.

So they're the most valuable franchise in the world, including all the soccer franchises. And they haven't been back to an NFC champion. championship game in 30 years. It's crazy to me. What's your favorite cowboy era? You know, a tough one for you. Because I wrote three books about the Jimmy Jerry Cowboys from 89 through 96.

So that's a special place in my heart. But my all-time favorite cowboy was Roger Staubach because he was the greatest cowboy quarterback. He was Roger the Dodger, Heisman Trophy winner out of Navy. And went to tour. Didn't he, didn't he go to war? He went to Vietnam. Yeah.

Yeah. He did a tour of Vietnam. And I got to know him. I covered him. I played a lot of basketball against him with him. And he was the greatest competitor I was ever around in the Brady realm. I'm, you know,

it's just he, you got to play with the greatest ever. And as a competitor, Brady is, I used to call him Psycho Tom, because he's got a split personality. As you know, better than anybody.

You're coming down the tunnel with Brady, and he's like flipping a switch going to somewhere else. Like, you don't know who that guy is, right? And that was Stobach, nicest guy ever, and then whole-blooded football killer during games, and he threw the

original Hail Mary pass to Drew Pearson, and he was as clutch as anybody this side of Tom Brady. So, in my heart of hearts, you know, it's sort of the the 70s, 60s, 70s Dallas Cowboy, Tom Landry Dallas Cowboy.

Those are the teams for me that they were the breakthrough teams. They went to five Super Bowls. And then the catch happened. Then the catch happened. Now, you play basketball at Staubach? I did. A lot. Did you DM up ever?

A lot. Believe it or not, because he had just retired. And so he was 38. and I was probably 35 maybe, 34 or five. I don't know. But he was trying to find an outlet for his competitive edge. And so we both belonged to this sort of fitness club called the Aerobic Center in Dallas. And I would run there every day in the afternoon. And I would see him and he'd say, come play.

And we just do pick up games. And then it got more and more severe and fierce and crazy. because he was psycho, complete psycho competitor. And we culminated with one basketball war where he wanted to get even with me. It's a long story. And it wasn't because of me. It's because of the team I was on.

But he invited that team that I was on for a rematch one day and ask people from his company, which was a real estate firm. He brought spectators to the game. And they cleared out the gym at the aerobic center and they had fold out seats from the side that would fold up so you could actually make it into a little sort of gym where like a little arena and there must have been I don't know 40 people in the stand something 40 or 50 people and he annihilated me and and he

brought in a ringer I don't know if you remember Cliff Harris for the Cowboys okay who was another psycho uh hitter not a very good basketball player but Cliff guarded me and I think I didn't score, you know, like one of those deals. But I got to see inside his competitive spirit like up close and personal and it was scary. And he put me in my place. Man. Yeah. He does have an aura.

I mean, he came and talked to our team a few times. Did he really? Oh, interesting. Okay. Bill would always have some. Okay. Someone come talk to the team every officer. season and one year it was Roger.

Yeah. And he just has an aura about him. He just spits success. I mean, he's a billionaire off the field. He made that real estate company what he did. He's done so many great things for our country. He's done things for the NFL. I mean, he's just,

he's a great example for a lot of young football players on how to do it. I mean, on how to really live, live out that dream. Now, what other sports did you like? Baseball. Who's the team? I mean, I like to play baseball in high school.

That was my best sport in high school. So I was obsessed with playing baseball and wanted to go on. Skip, what are we playing? What are we batten? What position you mean? What are we playing and what are we batten in the order? So I played shortstop and catcher, which is a weird combination. But it was because we had a really good senior catcher.

So my junior year, I had to play shortstop. And I wasn't that good. I had a big arm so I could play catcher, and I always hit third my senior year, and hit 350-ish. I was probably the best player on a bad team and thought I could go on and play. And I ended up winning a writing scholarship to Vanderbilt. And I'd never even been to Vanderbilt when I wanted. I was like, what do I do?

Because it was full. And there's no way my mom could have paid for this. So I just closed my eyes and went. and Vanderbilt is a legendary SEC baseball power. And even in those days, they were legendary already, but they were all Nashville kids. So I get there in early September, and the coach called me in my dorm room as a freshman.

He said, I know you play. We've heard about you playing. Would you just come out? You're on scholarship. So just come out and fall and see what, just he wanted to see what I could do. So I went to the first workout, my fall semester. I barely, I don't think I'd start a class yet.

And I walked out there with those Nashville kids, and I looked around, and I went through, they took a little BP and some infield. And I just said, maybe when I'm a senior, I could be a utility player, you know, like one of those where I might get to play here and there against bad teams. and I knew Vanderbilt, because I was a public school kid from Oklahoma City,

I knew it was going to be hard academically on me, which it was, but I did well. But I knew it was time to stop. Yeah. And I didn't go back. Wow. Yeah. You know, there's, I, there's nothing like taking infield. I miss taking infield.

Yeah. That was kind of. How good were you in high school? I was pretty good. Yeah. I was pretty good. Playing short third. Short.

Yeah. Played short. I ended up hurt my back from overuse. Really? I got a protruded disc because my buddy had a cage and we would take 500 cuts a night. Really? And I played like three games my senior year. Did you have power?

I had explosion. I wasn't like fully grown yet. Okay. But I could always hit the ball hard. You know, I could always explode on the ball. Because you always amazed me in football because you're bigger. than people think. Yeah.

You know, like you play small because you play quick, but, but you have some stature to you, or you wouldn't have made it, you know, like you wouldn't survive.

I was 200 pounds. Yeah. I mean, I was a buck 98, which I was shorter than a lot of guys, but I was thick. You're thick and, and you carry impact.

You know, you could run through tackles and the main thing was you could take the beating that you have to, at least for a while, you took it. But I could see where you would be a very good baseball.

Did you play basketball at all? I played basketball too in high school. Yeah. I was a three-sport athlete. I was a, I never knew. I didn't know the intricacies of basketball like I knew in football. Like my vision on the field of football just came so easy. Yeah.

Like setting guys up, setting blocks up, being able to know space. Basketball, I didn't really know. I was just the most athletic kid that could get all the steals, that could get to the hoop. you know what I mean? So like basketball, I just did to really stay in shape. I played some AAU when I was real young. Yeah. And then I loved, I played a lot of baseball.

And I, you know, my dad probably wore me out with that. We used to fight every day. You know, like he would throw to me every day. Really? Yeah, we used to train a lot. BP, like BP. I would take grounders for hours before practice. So he wanted you to be a baseball player.

He wanted me to be a baseball player, my dad, because he played baseball. Okay. And that football, I was just always natural. Like, it was just easy. And how early did you play quarterback? I didn't play quarterback until a high school. Really? I was a running back.

Okay. From Pop Warner. I played a lot of Pop Warner. I won two national championships at Pop Warner. Unbelievable. Yeah, it was, it was, Pop Warner was big. Were you the star? I was, I had like 36 touchdowns in like 10 games.

Were you fast right away? I was always really quick, really fast. I was the fastest kid until 12. Okay. And then 12, everyone hit puberty. I didn't. I didn't hit puberty until I was about 18. Okay.

And so then I was still one of the best players. Yeah. And I could out quick everyone, but I can never outrun. I hit my senior year. That's when I hit my gross spurt. And then that's when, you know, I went to Juko and it started to become, you know, where I was competing against guys that were. How good were you as a quarterback as a senior in high school?

I was, I was okay. I was okay More run than throw I had really good receivers I had Dominic Duncan Cruz who was a basketball player About 6 4 I threw him like 10 10 touchdowns I had Spencer Garrison who was our 4 by 1 guy

Ran like 10 9 I'd throw him like 6 7 touchdowns Kenneth Walker had a bunch of touchdowns We had a running back by the name of Tyrese Jacks He looked like Adrian Peterson If Adrian Peterson Was probably 20 pounds lighter. He was that about 5-11 stout frame that where he ran kind of high. But he was so much

stronger and faster than everyone that like he just went off, didn't have grades. But we rode him and we went at 13 and O my senior year. How did he do in college? Did you follow? He didn't get, he didn't get the grades. And so he ended up going to see, uh, city, San Francisco City College. I went to CSM. Yeah. And then he went to SAC state and it didn't work out. But, you know, he was a stud. I wasn't like a great high school quarterback. And I was still learning the position. I was a running back that turned into a quarterback because it was a necessity for the team. And then, you know, I gave my all to that. Worked with Roger Theodore, the old Cal coach, remember him? He's a big, you know, quarterback guru and that was all coming out back in the day. How was your arm? I could throw

it. Very good. I could throw it. I could throw it probably about 65, 60 yards. I saw he's throw a couple in pro football. Yeah, I only threw a couple for a reason. You know, I remember the first day going out to OTAs and seeing Tom Brady throw for the first time. You know, British Columbia came and picked up my negotiation rights. They wanted me to come play quarterback. Really?

And so I was sitting there and there was still like, you know, maybe. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I watched him throw the ball the first time. I was like, no shot. No, these guys right here, 20-yard outs. Balls just placed right where they needed to be watching him and Randy Moss. Yep. It was crazy.

We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind. And now, I've got my own show. If you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We've created. our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was, This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Now, what's like the biggest, you've been in the sports media game for 34,

40 years? Yeah. 40 years? Yeah. Don't remind me, but go ahead. What's the biggest change you've seen since the start to now? The internet. While, while west of the internet. That when I first started, there was no TV to speak of except games on TV. And the local TV reporters we frowned upon as fools, like just idiots. who babbled and didn't know what they were talking about and asked stupid questions. So for my first decade as a sports columnist,

we were it. This is before your time. But the newspapers ruled because there wasn't talk radio. There was nothing on television. There was obviously no ESPN. And then the ESPN breakthrough came late 80s, And right away, I started gravitating to A, talk radio, and B, I started doing football shows for ESPN while I was in Dallas as a columnist. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, came the Internet.

And it changed everything. I mean, there was a time when I first started in this business, you would not be doing this because there would be no way to. do it. Zero. It did not exist. And now a lot of people are doing this at a very high level. And the reason, biggest reason I left television was it felt like it was slowly but surely on the way, going on the way out as far as studio shows, not the games on TV, not the pregames on TV. That will always be. It just will. But. kickoff every single you go well i mean that that works but but this works too and so i wanted to do this so i segued and tried to reinvent myself again from newspapers to radio to tv to podcasts or

the arena great iron thank you shout out and you're doing a killer job thank you i appreciate that i'm having fun with it it's different because there are no commercials. I mean, we do do little commercials within, but you don't... You're on your schedule. Yeah. TV is hard, man, because you have these 10-minute segments,

and then you have to hit that and stop because you've got to get the commercials within the two-hour show. And so you're just getting rolling, oh, we got to take a break. And on this, we don't got to take a break, right? and so we start to conversate and we get into it and then you forget where you are and I forget where I am and I say things I shouldn't and right and that's why this works.

And it makes for good internet. It does. And it makes for good internet. Now, Skip, you know, I jumped into this world, this media world where I got to sit and I got to give my analysis on shit, stuff. Yeah, stuff. Yeah. And, you know, I sit back and I watch.

football. I watch all the shows all day long. I want to see what everyone else is saying. I'll watch the games. I'll watch the cutups. Then I'll watch the shows. All just for football. Yep. You do it for like football, basketball. You do it for a bunch of sports. How are you watching games and how are you digesting sport on a daily basis? Are you watching all the games? You watching just cutups? Because I mean, if there's anything important in sports, Skip, got a good take on it. Yeah. So my wife is here in the background and she will, unfortunately. Which she did give me this beautiful book real quick. Let me see. What is this? What is her baby? What she was saying? She watched so much patriots. What is this? Balls, how to keep your

relationship alive when you live with a sports obsessed guy. There you go. Wow. Look at that. That's important stuff. Look at that for my wife. Yes. How do you watch sports, Skip? Obsessively. It seems she'll tell you I watch every game, every NFL game, every NBA playoff game. Seems like every NBA regular season game. But I'm certainly not telling you how to do your job,

but this is how I do mine. I watch no other opinion shows. I read nothing on the internet. I don't want to know even what Julian thinks. even though I highly respect. And it would probably help me to know some of what you know. Yeah.

But I don't want to know it because I want my opinion to be my opinion clean. Pro. Like, because I'm sitting watching games on television. I'm not watching coaches tape. I'm not watching cut-ups. I'm watching it live

and I'm tweeting live. And I'm constantly I'm watching by myself because I don't want to watch with anybody including my wife, especially my wife, right? Mr. Ernestine, she can't come in, right? She can't come in. So it's just me and our little daughter

of a dog. We have a 10-year-old Maltese named Hazel, and she sleeps at my feet through every single game that I watch. And if I scream at the TV, she looks at me with one eye, like, what are you doing? You know, like, what's wrong with you? But she, it doesn't scare her if I scream. I only scream

during the cowboy games. And I'm constantly thinking, what, what's happening? You know, what is that? Why was that? And wait a minute. Why did he do that? And he didn't do that. And I'm tweeting about it.

And I'm forming opinions on the fly that I hope are wholly authentically me. And I've been doing it for a long time. And I probably don't know as much as you do about football. but I know a lot about football and I'm going to look at it a little differently than you look at it because I'm going to think of the people involved in their backgrounds

and how their backgrounds clash or interact and by the end of the game I'm going to have some opinions that aren't fake, phony opinions. They're hard, real, true opinions from the gut opinions

that are molded by years of experience of watching games and having opinions about games. And you have to train your mind to work that way. So I don't watch games for enjoyment or escape. I watch them for business. I feel the same way. Okay, good. I love that.

What I do is we have a think group and I'll sit there and I'll feed. We'll watch these games and I'll see Dan Campbell go for it on another fort down. I'll just sit and send a voice message of like how many times do we have to say we got to go for it on fourth down? And we said we needed a bunch of points this game, but the game's only 21 to 22 right now. And it's the fourth quarter. So why are we going forward on fourth down? Like that's what I do. Good.

Love that. You know what I mean? But that's you. Yeah. And you learned it the hard way. You know, you paid your dues. And yet so many ex-player. that I debate with on my show's arena,

Gridiron or Gil's Arena, the basketball show, that they still think like a player because it's how you were raised. You know, like you grew up as a player, and there's some player think to it, and you got molded by your coaches, especially Bill,

where you're trained to think this way because that's how Bill thought. We went to school. You get your doctor, in football, my professor was Bill Belichick. He was. You know what I mean? And I agree with that a thousand percent. Yeah. But I also think there's value and I have a respect for people that didn't play the game specifically because Bill didn't play the game. So I understand there's people that didn't play the game that no fucking football. Yeah. You know what I mean? Okay,

like, I always use this example. Right now, as we speak, the best GM and pro football is Howie Roseman of the Philadelphia Eagles. We could debate that, but he has shown me as a cowboy fan and a rival of the Eagles that that he runs Super Bowl rings around Jerry Jones as the GM of my team. So Howie Roseman didn't even play high school football. So whether you think he's the best or one of the best, I think you'd have to say he's one of the best. He didn't even play high school football. I think he is unathletic from all that I've heard. So how did he learn? to see some things that other people can't see, it's because he didn't have to unlearn anything.

He came blank slate to professional football, and then he had to pay dues up the ladder. He's a gopher, and then he's this, and he's the assistant to the assistant to the assistant, and then he's this, and he has an eye for who can play and who can't play. And I think I have a pretty good eye for who can play and who can't play, and why?

And we see at the highest level, my all-time favorite athlete times 1,000, is Michael Jordan. Greatest competitor, greatest performer in any sport ever, to me even beyond Tom Brady. And yet, when Michael tried to run a franchise and pick the players for the Charlotte franchise in basketball, the sport he dominated, he proved to be the worst GM in the history of professional

sports. And over a decade, it got so bad that he finally had to throw up his hands and sell because he was too good for his own good. He's the greatest ever. And his attitude was, well, this is easy. I could, you know, I did, you can do this, right? It's why great players seldom make great coaches. You just watched a documentary that just came out on, I think it's on Amazon Prime about Jerry West. And great player, the logo. And then he tried to coach the Lakers. And he failed miserably.

And he said, I, they couldn't be me. You know, like, come on, man. You got to, you got to play harder. You got to do, you can do, no, they can't. Wayne Gretzky, same issue. Yep. You know, and I, I put myself in that on a smaller scale with, you know, coaching my daughter, I feel like.

Well, I can't coach her. I give her to someone else. because you just some, some guy, some guy you just, you want it done a certain way and they don't understand. They don't. I was that film session last night. You know, at these soccer games now. Oh, does she? She's nine.

Nine. And they got this eye in the sky now. So we break down the games afterwards. Me and her will sit and watch the whole game. And I don't know if she likes it or hates it yet because now she sees it. Everything on the field we can all see. Okay. Because that eye in the sky never lies.

How's her talent level in your eye? Talent level is there. She's very strong, very, very, she can run through contact. She's got an aggression to her. It's just, it's the, you know, with professional athlete kids, it's not about the athleticism. It's about the want. You know, do you want to be out there? Do you have that extra attitude effort?

Are we giving that, you know? And I like to challenge her on. the field because she's very similar to me and that's how I learned to learn. I learned to learn through sport, which, you know, it helped me in school with that. And with her, it's the same kind of thing. But, you know, we're just, we're just working. Nothing's more important than the attitude and the effort and being a good teammate. Those are the three things that's all I'm ever looking for with her. Attitude effort, being a good teammate. But she's awesome. She's, she's, she's progress. I'm tell you right now, Skip, when you were talking about Staubach and, you know, finding your competitiveness

after you retire, it's so hard for a professional athlete, especially if you've accomplished or over-accomplished everything that you've ever wanted in your life. Yep. And the only thing that has come remotely close, which maybe even surpassed it, is when I see my kid work on something and progress in real life. something. That's the, like, I remember literally training a route, one route in an offseason for three weeks, working a thousand times running that one route so I could get, like the return route. Sometimes I didn't get my foot at the quarterback and that's like the coaching point. You want to

whip in there, but you have to get that foot pointed to the quarterback so you don't slip. You know, a lot of guys you're trying to transfer that weight fast and it took me time. You know, that one route. You know, and to see her work on something, whether it's the piano or tennis, you know, on soccer, that's like my Super Bowl now, you know, watching that. That's the cool thing. So the final analysis to this is she has to want to do it as much as you want her to do it, or it'll never work.

It'll never work. Okay. It'll never work. But you also need to stick with stuff and can't just quit this. Well, sure. Yeah, I got that. But she has to have a deep love for it. Yeah.

where even if she gets frustrated, she still has the desire. Still has it. Yeah. But she's getting it. It's young. We're real young. We're real young.

We're real young. But that's how, I mean, my household was different. You know what I mean? It was a, we were going hard at six, seven, eight. I had an older brother. It was seven years older. And I've learned so much through sport. You know, I love her out there because,

especially in a team sport and an individual sport. The team sport, she's learning that if you don't have your stuff together on the field, you're going to be embarrassed. Okay. From your teammates. You're going to learn that. You're going to learn setting goals. You're going to learn how to communicate. You should see how these little girls communicate. When you watch them, you know, like, hey, cheer you. You know, they're communicating. They're talking to each other, which in this day and age, it's so crazy to see little kids communicating without a phone or something. Okay. So they learn that. What else do you got on me? What do you dissecting on me? I know you're coming back. at age nine, does she yet comprehend or appreciate what her dad accomplished as a seventh round draft pick quarterback who went to a championship team and said, I'm going to make this team and I'm going to make a place for myself on this team. It's unbelievable long odds that you beat to get to the top of the mountain as a Super Bowl envioles.

does she appreciate that yet as her mentor that that you came from quote unquote nowhere to everywhere? She doesn't understand that quite yet. Okay. All right. But she's, you know what I mean? It's, it's, she doesn't. But I just went into the Hall of Fame with the Patriots and she came to that and it's kind of changed. She did. Good.

Okay. She probably grasped that. She's grasping, you know, because she doesn't really remember, you know, for the first four years of her life, she was out in Boston with me. You know, she doesn't really remember. remember that as much, going to the training camps and this and that. But now, you know, it's getting to that age where I can see her putting her shoulders up and like, yeah, I am kind of like that. I need to be like that.

You know, and it's awesome. Now, let's get back into you, Skip. Man, you get over. I see him over here taking in his knowledge. And I'm like, I'm like, what is he going to say? What is he going to debate me? How the heck did you become such a great debater? I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, but as a kid, I was always argumentative about sports with my friends.

And I'm, as my wife will tell you, stubborn to a fault. And I'm smart, if I may say so myself, and I work my ass off at it. Live TV or live any of this is all about preparation and concentration. and I would like to think that I scored high in both. And so I'm going to out-prepure you before a sports debate, and I'm going to know my position, and I'm going to research my position, and I'm going to stack my ammo in my head,

and I'm going to anticipate that if you go here, I'm going to go there, and if you think you get me over here, well, I'll just go over there. and I will undo your argument wherever you want to go because I've thought it through. So you're not going to surprise me, shock me, ambush me on live, whatever we're on. And then I'm going to be stubborn to a fault. And I'm not going to crack. I'm not going to cave.

And I'm going to fight you to the death because that's how I'm built. So that's it. I mean, it's, is Skip a Patriot? Is he, is, is it the, that's the Patriot way. I was going to say, concentrate and execute. It is. No, it is the Patriot. I didn't, I never thought of it that way.

And Bill's, talk about stubborn. Is there ever been a more stubborn human than Bill Belichick? I only played for one coach in the National Football League. It's true. I don't have any other opinions on that. What is a take that you're most proud of? Like, what's the debate that you, like, look back on you're like,

I fucking debated the shit out of that one. I mean, there's gotta be one. Well, there, the all-timer is Jordan over LeBron is the goat. Because I'm offended that anybody would ever try to debate me and make a case that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player ever.

That's laughable to me. That's blasphemous to me. That's heresy. That's idiocy. And so bring it on because... These are thesaurus out here, folks. Yes. Let's go.

So that's the one that's been the trademark of my career. But it's a simple, it's like a game over debate before we start. Okay, that's just me. What's the one that you... What's the take that's giving you the most trouble? Okay. So we just talked about preparation concentration. So I have no regrets on anything I've ever said.

Like there's never been one where I said, oh, I blew that one or I screwed that up. I wish I had that back. I don't wish I had any of them back. So I have zero regrets about, oh, God. You know, have I occasionally been wrong about whether a player could play? if you ask me one, I'll tell you what I thought. Like, I don't know, I'm off the top of my head.

Johnny Mansell. I thought he was a really good college football player. Somewhat out of your mold, a little bit bigger than you think, you know, still six feet to 205 maybe. Do you know Johnny's career a little bit at Texas A&M? Oh yeah. He was a stud. I mean, just extraordinary. He was, I mean, he was Johnny football for a reason.

He was Johnny football. and because I'm from Oklahoma City, and grew up the University of Oklahoma fan, they played OU in a cotton bowl, and he, I forget the numbers off the top of my head, but he threw for 150 and ran for 200. So he was kind of a Julian high school college, you know, where you could run, man.

You could make people miss. And you had, Johnny not blazing fast. I asked him because he never ran a 40, and he said, I think I could run four-five-ish, maybe. I don't know, what, did you ever time in the 40? Yeah, I was 4-48. Okay. So, Ryan, he's in your ballpark.

Yeah. But on quickness and elusivity, oh, Lord, have mercy. Johnny Mansell in college football. And plus on magic, you know, just had that magic factor. Of course, I look back now and I say, yeah, he had Mike Evans at 6 foot 5, and it's nice to be able to say,

I think I'll throw it up. Like, look, you said you had the same. six four guy in high school. You threw him 10 touchdown, right? You throw him a lot. Yeah, we just throw it up, and he'll go up and get it. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Luke Wilson.

Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, Nick? news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. But Johnny Mansell, I loved him, And I thought he could play in pro football. But I made it clear. I was on ESPN on first take then. And they wouldn't let me go too far with this because I knew too much.

But I said, I just made it alcohol. I said, if he has any alcohol issues in pro football, I'm out. And I didn't go into the drug side of it. But there's both going on at a dangerously high level. And so I don't know. I think he can be great. John Gruden on at that point, who was the ESPN ABC

Monday night football guy and he vehemently agreed and he went all the way to he should go first overall remember the Texans had that pick and took Chedevi and Clowny. But Gruden's advocating for Johnny

going number one to the Texans and I thought he should be a high first round pick I can't remember which way but but I thought Cleveland got a steal and I thought if if he can be Johnny football in Cleveland, which is at heart, if you know Cleveland, it's a football town.

Football town. And so if Johnny can be Johnny football, he'll be bigger than LeBron James is in Cleveland just by virtue of the sport he plays and the position he plays in that sport. And obviously it was a disaster. Yeah, you can't call him all. Can't call him all.

Okay, but again, he had big off the field issues that completely undid him from day one. And it's hard to measure. The intangibles can be tough, man. Yeah, at that position, you've got to be elite. Yeah. You're the face of the team. But it's like the kids you played high school football with or even Pop Warner.

You see these kids and you see the talent. And then at some point, it becomes an intangible battle about who wants more, who's mentally tougher, who's more dedicated in the off season to keep running the same route it's 17,000 times over three weeks until you got it. Who will do that?

This guy will. So he's going to show Belichick on day one. Wait a second. You can do that. Oh, he can return too, so he can return. Oh, oh, he could do that. That's exactly what it was. Day one. You wanted to turn heads. Day one, the weekend after Code

Coachella. All you Coachella kids out there. That was the report date. First day of OTAs, anything. Yeah. Got to turn ahead. What you can do. And I told you this story when we had you on Arena Gridiron and I'll quickly repeat it. But I'm on first take. And I'm pretty sure it was your first exhibition, your first preseason game. And do you remember who it was or? Philadelphia. Okay. And it was on a weird night like a, it was like on a Thursday night or something. Weird night. Or Monday or it could have been a Wednesday or Thursday preseason. Okay. It was a weird night because we had a show and we obviously had a Monday through Friday show. We had a show the next day.

So I'm watching the game and this kid from, what do we call it, Kent State or Kent? Do they call it? Can't state. Kent State. It doesn't matter. Can't read, can't write, can't state. So this little kid, this little, and again, you played smaller on TV than you, you're not. small to me and and you are jumping off my screen returning and catching and you're playing with

twos and threes I don't know but well this was Brady's first game back okay from the ACO okay there you go so there was a little heat yeah in the locker room and he was going to play there you go so Welker didn't play that game he had he was dealing with a hamstring or something there you you know so god you got your opportunity one of them one of them you know that you got to be but there was a little heat going to that game and I had his first catch. He gave me a swing route and I housed a punt

and I had the opening kickoff tackle. You house to punt. You did. Yeah. Okay. So I go into our 7.30 a.m. meeting the next morning resided over by our, whoever our showrunner of the day was.

I know who it was and I'm not going to repeat his name publicly because he's a friend of mine. But I immediately said, I want to talk about this kid for New England. what kid i said this edelman kid he's the seventh round pick he was a quarterback in college seriously i said no no seriously this looked different to me this this looked real to me stop and so he he is out after a while he's laughing out loud at my take on this and i said well you can laugh if you want but come what time was 10 a.m eastern i'm i'm going to talk

about that little kid on television. And I did. And the rest is NFL history. The rest is NFL history. Made you look good, Skip. You did. Made you look good. Yeah.

Way to go. You always, you know, I tell you right now, I'd be peeping at you watching your stuff. And that's why I've always respect you because there'd be some stuff you would call out that you had no sources or anything just through your little complexity of how your brain works. That is true. that I'm sitting there like, he's spot on there.

Like what? I don't know you're talking about, but let's get it back to Skip. Skip, who is one guy out there or lady that you see roaming around on the internet, on TV, that you're just dying to debate? You are dying to debate. I know, I saw the Micah Parsons call out, not Micah. Give me someone else. Who's someone that you see out there debate? You mean a player or?

Doesn't matter. Someone that you say, I need a piece of them because they don't know what they're talking about. They may have a lot of shine, whatever. Living or dead. What's that? Living or dead, too. Living or dead. Oh, yeah.

Anytime. You know what's funny about this? Hmm. So for a bunch of years in this business, I sat across the desk from Stephen A. Smith. And I missed the hell out of him because he's, not only is he my brother from another mother, but he was my ultimate debate partner because we drove each other crazy, like genuinely crazy,

where we didn't have to fake it, we didn't have to trick up any debates, or you take this side and I'll take, we never did that. I've never done that one time in my career because I'm going to tell you what I'm going to say, and you can either agree with it or disagree, I ain't flipping.

Never flip, skip, skisking. but with Stephen A it was so perfect because we came from opposite ends of the earth because he's from Queens and I'm from Oklahoma City and black and wide and just yet we both came up the same way

through the newspaper business newspaper columnist. His sport was basketball I was viewed more as a football guy though my sports also basketball because he didn't know more basketball than I know. So we start with that premise. And when you say this, because I chose to leave Stephen A in 2016, because I'd been doing it for so long, I just said, I have a chance to join a guy who gave me my first big break in the business, Jamie Horowitz, out here at Fox Sports One, and he was

trying to start it over and put it back on the map. And I just said, I want to go see if I can help put a network on the national map because it was a huge challenge and by God we did it yeah okay so i to do so a little later in my career i had to leave stephen a which i didn't i wanted to go do that but i didn't want to leave him but at some point you just got to cut the cord right because we'd been doing that for like 15 years and it wasn't that i was burned out on it or him we just done it At the highest level, I think any duo has ever done it at on a consistent daily basis. So when you say that, I still see him say something on TV or the internet or on his podcast or whatever. And it just infuriates me.

And so when you say it, I want a piece of him. That's who I want. I can't get him out of my head because I think, I could shut him down on that. And I can't believe he said that. and and we still were friends staying touch and but but that I still I still want to do that with him again you know like that that's that's debate heaven for me is him so he's the one I still want a piece of I mean it's a it's a valid answer I think we got to set this up paper view Dana White let's go set it up yeah no let's go back into time let's jump into this game and we like

talk pop culture before we get into the game. This game took place January 10th, 1982. Look at some of the craziest stuff that was out. Sharky's machine was number one movie. Number one song, physical by Olivia Newton, John. Let's get physical. That was, I used to love her

in Greece. Oh, man. Niners were the champions, Super Bowl champions NC2A Clemson. They won it in 82? Holy moly. I forgot about that one. Kenny Anderson, MVP in the NFL. Ken Anderson, actually, I used to go with Ken Anderson

to Manhattan Beach because he used to train quarterbacks. Really? I think so. Kenny Anderson. The Jets, right? No, he's Cincinnati. But they didn't he go to the Jets? But, I mean, they played the 49ers in that Super Bowl. Then I'm wrong, wrong guy.

Wrong guy. Skip. It's okay. My concentration didn't meet my preparation there. That's all right. He was, he did go on to be a QB coach, though. This Ken Anderson. Is this Kenny Anderson a QB coach?

Yeah, for the Bengals, the Jags, Steelers. Let me see anything about that. Did he coach? Because I, there was a, I think there was a connection to the jets. I don't know. No, there was a Kenny Anderson that used to train Matt Castle, and he also trained a couple other of those quarterbacks. I go catch their balls.

But what was Skip like in 1982? Raiders at the Lost Ark. You a movie guy? I'm a big movie guy and I was there on opening day that opened. Raiders at Lock. I saw it in the theater in the Boulder scene

where it's coming down on him. It's the ride. It's terrifying. Knock me out of my seat. Skip, are you a popcorn guy at the movie theater? Are we going with some old school, maybe some jolly ranchers?

No, I don't do that. I'm a clean eater, but I would eat some theater popcorn. I'd do a small, like a kid's bag maybe. Yeah. Butter? No butter. No butter. No butter. Although that, some of it's already buttered. Yeah. I get it. I get it. Yeah.

Now, what's a, what's a movie? This is a good question. What's a sports moment or a sporting event or a sport team that needs to have a movie? Wow. You have a lot to pick from there. Well. Because you know a lot of good moments. Yeah. Well, I just participated over the summer. It's going back a year. but there was a Netflix documentary on the 90s Dallas Cowboys

called The Gambler and his Cowboys. I'm not sure about the title, but it was about Jerry Jones. It's really a monument to Jerry Jones. Came out in August, and Michael Irvin just took it over because he just poured his guts out about all that he did off the field.

And I was there every day, and that was a movie waiting to happen. So that would be, that was the team, but they did the real live movie, the documentary movie for Netflix, and it did very well. But that's the team that just flies into, you know, like your Patriot teams,

I don't know enough about them because Bill just slammed the door shut, you know? It's just you're on to Cincinnati, right? You're on to Cincinnati. That's why everyone watches the Nut House because of all the bottled up coolness that we all had in that building. Yeah.

They watch our stuff because we're letting them know what the fun was. You know what that's true. That is a fact. Because we couldn't talk about it. You couldn't talk about it. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know.

I was going to say Bill's not that interesting, but I think he is interesting off the field, you know, like. I mean, I thought it was pretty interesting seeing him do yoga on the beach. I mean, it's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, right? Now, did you, this was Lawrence Taylor's rookie year.

Now, talking about Bill, Bill loved Lawrence Taylor. Can you explain to me how this guy changed the league, specifically early 80s, mid-80s? This guy was just a freak. He was the biggest freak I ever saw. And nobody had quite figured out that you could wear 56 and play linebacker, but you could just kind of casually walk up to the line of scrimmage. and at the snap, you could bolt. And you could go break Joe Thaisman's leg on Monday night football.

I don't know if you remember that, but he snapped it. And I saw him when Troy Aikman was a rookie, he terrorized Troy Aikman and sacked him, I don't know, six or seven times. He was unblockable off the edge. And yet he's everywhere. It's like there were four or five Lawrence Taylor's on the field at one time. but he was the baddest MF whoever played pro football was that guy

and when he walked up to the edge on third and six it's just struck sheer terror in the heart of the quarterback eyes wide because there's no left tackle that could deal with that with the sheer quickness

power and nastiness that he brought he was going to seriously try to kill the quarterback. And it revolutionized the pass rush because we always thought of, you're in a four, three, and you got the two defensive ends with their hands in the dirt, and the two defensive tackles. And all of a sudden, wait, a linebacker is unblockable off the edge. Nobody ever thought of that.

There was what they used to call the Red Dog or Blitz, you know, back in the day. We're over. Yeah. Okay. But not that. And so it just revolution, it put Bill Parcells on the map. And for that matter, Bill Belichick on them. Right there.

Yeah. You ever meet him? Nope. I never met him. L.T. I didn't, I didn't cover him. So I don't think I've ever crossed his path. Yeah.

Bad man. He is. Everyone says it. Jackie, jump into these Niners. Let's rip these Niners real quick. The 13 and 3-9ers coming off of year in which they went 6 and 10. Year before that, 2 and 14 is a third year of the Bill Walsh era. First winning season in five years.

First playoff season in nine. First year with Montana starting all 16 games. Remember before that you had Steve DeBerg in there. This was the season. They really birthed the dynasty as we'll get into in this game. Notable rookies, Ronnie Lott, man. Ronnie. Eric, right? Eric, right? We talked about that. You got a connection there.

I used to compete against his son. Really? His son used to whip me every week in the 100. In the 7th grade. Really? Avin right. I beat him one week in high jump because right and off week. Wow. Freaking Avin.

And we got to shout out these Hall of Famers. Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Fred Dean, and Bill Walsh. What a team all-time Niners roster right here. Skip, what do you remember about this Niners team? Okay. you're going to have to tell me if I'm just spilling too much on this, because I know way too much about this, but this team and this game, most fascinating ever.

So, as was just pointed out, terrible team the year before, the Cowboys had owned the 49ers in playoffs past, own them in the early 70s. They played in two straight NFC championship games, and then a divisional round game in which we, as a cowboy fan, just tromped them, owned them. Roger Stalbock had one great comeback at old Kizar Stadium in San Francisco. I love Kizar.

High school championship, baby. Oh. You played a Kizzer? Not for the city teams. It wasn't for us. We all wanted to play at Kizar. Okay, cool. So it was still operating after the 49ers left.

Yeah. Okay. So it comes to this season, in 1981, and I'm still thinking the Cowboys are the Wow Boys. You know, they're everything. They got it all and preseason pick to win it all. And in October of that year, the Cowboys go out to Candlestick to play a regular season game against these guys, these nobodies.

And I don't know the point spread of the game, but even at Candlestick, I promise you, Dallas is favored by 10. and on the way to the game, this is the weirdest thing, but it was an omen to me, I'm riding in the media bus, which is the third of three buses on the way to the game, players, players, media with officials. From Burling game, probably a San Francisco. No, we were from St. Francis, downtown. Oh, you were downtown.

Oh, I forgot. These are cowboys. These are cowboys. These are cowboys. Cowboys. Cowboys. The cowboys. So we take a circuitous route up off the front.

freeway and go the backway. Is it Daily City? You're in there. Yeah. Okay. And the hills are are ridiculous. Like they're scary hills. So the first bus is chugging up a hill and stalls and can't make it up the hill. Thereby freezing bus two and three on the hill and they're trying to hold on, slam the brakes. And it gets so bad that the players have to get out and push the first bus to the top of the hill to get it going over the hill. That's out in Hunter's Point. Okay. There you go.

And it just seemed like, wait, this is America's. This doesn't happen to America's team, but it just happened. And I'm on the third bus thinking, this is weird, man. Is this some supernatural event? Is there a message here? Because that's the way my mind goes. So I'm still the deal. go up in the press box, and on the field, I watch 45 to 14 happen.

San Francisco 45, the Wow Boys, 14. And this kid, Montana from Notre Dame, third round pick, wait, he looks pretty great. And they roll up almost 500 yards on the cowboy defense and hold Dallas to about 200 yards, 45 to 14. And, of course, in the locker room after the game, the Wow Boy. are all saying it's a fluke it's we just out of bed day shake it off throw it out let's next let's go next we'll be right back after this quick break this may iHeart radio celebrates asian heritage month discover powerful stories vibrant cultures and unforgettable music from inspiring podcasts to playlist

that span east south southeast and west asian artists the voices shaping our world Listen now on the free IHard Radio app And at iHardio.ca. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember

I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this We were talking about a thing

A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that You guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

They go 12 and 4. But the 49ers just keep on, keep it on and go 13 and 3. And wait a second, they have home field throughout the playoffs. So it comes to inevitably, maybe faithfully, wait, the NFC championship game is back at the scene of the crime? Oh, well, we'll just go put them in there. Same route? Do you guys take the same bus route? No, we did not. We stayed, we, because for the NFC game, they got police escorts and, and they got a route.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we went straight into the, off the freeway. We, off the 101, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of the backdrop has been set, and I'm still thinking, as a long-time cowboy observer, now that, they'll win this game by a couple of touchdowns, because that's just, the way it goes. Now it's serious, right?

And Cowboys jump up and lead, they lead 17 to 14 and a half time. Then Danny White, who's trying to replace Roger Staubach, and Danny was pretty good, but that's all I can give him. He was just pretty good. He wasn't magic. He wasn't Roger,

the Dodger. And yet he throws a touchdown pass to a kid named Doug Cosby, a tight end from Santa Clara from the Bay Area. And all of a sudden, they're up 27 to 21 with maybe seven, eight minutes left in the game.

And Montana throws a second interception to a kid named Everson Walls. I don't know if you remember Cubby Walls, Everson Walls. He wound up winning a championship with Belichick and the Giants. Everson Walls was from Dallas and that year, out of gambling, had walked on with the Cowboys

as just a street free agent in Thousand Oaks, California at their camp. One of 50 free agents, back in the day, they would just bring in like 100, but I think it was 50 that year. And he somehow blocked a punt in the first preseason game and caught Landry's eye, made the team, wound up starting at corner the first game, and led the league in interceptions with 11. This is Malcolm Butler? Yeah. Really? It's a Malcolm Butler story. but it's different because

Everson Walls ran a 4-840, okay? And that's why nobody drafted him or wanted him in camp. And yet, everybody thought going into the cowboy game, we can throw at that guy, right? Wrong. Because he had that thing that our man,

Akeeb Taleb had, that ball hawk gene, that nose eye instinct for the football. and everybody kept trying to go at him and he kept intercepting everybody, including Joe Montana in the NFC championship game. He picked off his second Montana pass mid-fourth quarter. Two-picks. Yeah, what's that?

Two, second pick. Second pick. So we had two in that game because San Francisco turned it over six times in that game. You win this game. You can't win. Nobody wins an NFC championship game with six turnovers. Bill Belichick would have quit, you know, Like he just would have walked off the field and said,

I don't want to associate with you guys, right? But Dallas turned it over three times. So a second pick gives Dallas the ball back, but they can't move. So the punter was Danny White. That was his sort of claim to fame, is that he was a quarterback punter. He punts San Francisco down to its 11-yard line.

So now there's four and a half minutes left and their first and 10 at their 11, and they're down 27 to 21. We're talking, this is the drive to the catch. This is it. Here we go. where are you i'm in the press box 50 yard line looking down on this thinking no shot no no it's too it's against this it's still shades of the doomsday defense because they still have randy white

and harvey martin and two tall jones they got firepower and star power and it was the greatest thing of play calling beauty i've ever witnessed and and allow me to say that later in in life, I got to know Bill Walsh and became friends with Bill Walsh. So I know Bill very well. God rest his soul. And to me, with all respect to the coach you played for, Bill was the greatest coach to me. And it's in part, I'm biased. But as a team builder, a personnel director slash head coach, not that Bill wasn't, but

but Bill Walsh was the greatest ever, and he called plays. Okay, so he invented this offense that, that you saw remnants of in your offense. In Cincinnati, though, it should be the Midwest. Yeah. Midwest, okay, well, you know what? Well, tusha, well said. But this is the first time I'm seeing it in action.

I'm actually, I'm a disciple of a completely different offense. You are, you are. Charlie Weiss. It's different. It's very different. Okay. But you came into the West Coast. No, but we played all these West Coast teams. And Bill used to coach against Walsh.

He did. And he brought in the nickel for that. Bill Walsh. He did. And so like I remember him. He would show plays of L.T. blowing up the toss gator trap that they've been running for 20, 40 years. I know.

It's true. Okay. So I'm watching play after play where I'm thinking, that's clever oh i didn't see that coming receiver reverses it's it's all out of two back it's weird he's running a lot of two back yeah okay and all of a sudden i look up and it's it's third and four at the cowboy six yard line with about a minute left okay third and four at the six okay and i'm thinking all right surely they'll make a play they'll make a play So the 49ers come out in two backs again.

And today, nobody, does anybody run two back? I mean, they just, like, side by side two back? Not anymore. They just don't do it. No. So they come out in two back. And they have Dwight Clark split wide right. And in the slot to the right is Freddie Solomon,

former quarterback in college, that Walsh converted to a slot receiver. Yeah. Out of quickness, hands, athletic ability. Okay. and at the snap, the play design is for Dwight Clark to come pick for Freddie Solomon

to run just a quick square out, just just square out, to either get the first down because you still had a chance to get the first down or the touchdown, okay? And at the snap, Freddie Solomon slit, because it's mud.

You're playing in mud. It's candlestick, baby. It's candlestick, baby. And his feet go right out from under him, and he falls. so Dwight Clark you could just see him flinch a little bit because he's supposed to set a pick

but he's also supposed to continue on and run what we used to call a zig out like a z like where you would run to the back line and take two big steps and then plant and reverse because Montana is going to roll right so he's going to roll right and you're supposed to mirror him as the second option receiver

the protection breaks completely down and two tall Jones at six feet nine inches tall, six nine, is all over Montana with D.D. Lewis, another old friend of mine, a linebacker out of Mississippi State, in hot pursuit. So they've got him dead to rights. He's going nowhere. He's not going to beat him because Montana could run. Basketball player.

Like really run, especially in that first year starting. He was a threat to hurt you with his legs. And he's running and he's running and he's pumping and he's pumping. And he's pretty much admitted. He just finally decided, I got nothing. I'm going to throw it away, right? So I'm pretty sure he's trying to throw it away. And he throws it up into the fog.

And Dwight Clark, running his Z out, just goes up in the fog over Everson Walls, over Everson Walls. And it became a famous Sports Illustrated cover photo. Oh, yeah. And picks it out of the fog, you know, and comes down with it. in the stadium, I'm sitting in the press box,

it's rocking like it's an earthquake. Because everybody is jumping up and down, and the whole thing, I'm thinking the press box is going to fall into the stands because it's going like this, seriously. Yeah. And it was a moment of the end of one dynasty and the launch of the 49er dynasty.

But what people forget is, there's still 51 seconds left. Okay, so Dallas is going to get the ball, had an opportunity at its 25 and on first and 10 from the 25 with 51 seconds left Danny white to his credit drops back off play action to Tony Dorset and throws it to the greatest clutch receiver I ever saw no offense to you because you're you're in the conversation but Drew Pearson is in my book he caught he caught the Hail Mary pass he caught so many big Staubach throws he runs just your basic skinny

Post. Bang 8, they called it. And he beats Eric Wright, a rookie, and is gone for 31 yards, but he catches, it's a perfect throw, and looks like he's gone. Drew Pearson's not the fastest guy because he was undrafted out of Tulsa. So he's not a burner, but he could run. But Eric Wright hits the burners and reaches

out and grabs him by the back of the shoulder pads. It's a blatant horse collar and yanks him down after 31-yard gain. Today's football, it's plus 15. And Dallas is an easy field goal range. But in those days, 31 from the 25, so you're just barely, you're to the 44. So you're going to have to run another play to get into field goal range for Raphael Septi and the cowboy kick. kicker. Okay? There it is. And on the next play, Danny, poor Danny White, demons in his

head drops back, sack, fumble, recovered by the 49ers, game over. Catch lives. Because the catch was almost preempted by another catch, right? So that's why that's the greatest spectator game I ever saw, that it came down to a horse collar, tackle before there was a horse collar penalty, right? I mean, yeah, they weren't calling it for another 30 years, but... 30 years. So it was just, it's so incredible to me that this upstart team that showed you 45 to 14, they showed you who they were.

They put their cards all over the table, right? and then you come back to this game and the wow boys are saying no no and they say yes yes we're legit and whoever won that game was going to go beat ken anderson in the super bowl and the Cincinnati Bengals and they did so for danny white they went back in the strike year with 82 to another NFC championship game his third in a row and lost and then from that point on it was it was over for tom Landry. It was over. And it led to Jerry Jones. And it led to Jerry Jones. Where does that catch? Ranking all-time NFL plays? It's got to be up there. You know, for me, again, I can't, I have to look through the cowboy prism or cowboy blue-colored

glasses. The Hail Mary play, I know it's way before your time, but it's so unbelievable because they're dead at Minnesota out. It's outdoors and it's like below zero and it's it's ridiculously windy cold. Like can't play cold, although your AFC championship game in Kansas City was can't play cold, right? It was pretty cold. It wasn't the coldest game though. Okay, all right.

So I've played in a colder game. At least you could sort of feel your hands. It's cold. No, it's cold. It's cold. But the damn Mary, it's without going through the gory. detail of the play-by-play. They got no chance. And Roger just says, no, watches and he wills it home. And then at the end, he throws one up to Drew Pearson. And it wasn't the greatest throw. It's

against the wind, against the wind. And Drew has to kind of come back for it. But he catches it. And then he got away with a little push-off on Nate Wright and took it in. And it just shocked the crowd into abject silence, you know, like it just shut down all volume in the stadium. And wait a second, just did that. And then Roger termed it after the game. He said, I had to say Hail Mary because he was a good Catholic boy. And it became the Hail Mary. So for me, that's a little more momentous. Now, you're covering the team at this time. So you're in the locker room after. Did the Cowboys have the feel of like, all right, we're going to go into a kind of hibernation until the 90s feel? Or like, hey, we'll be back.

No, we're going to be good. Did you realize through the feel of that team that they were going to be done for a while? So you won't remember our player. One of my all-time favorite interview players was Charlie Waters of that team, played cornerback. a white guy cornerback who probably didn't, he just played with his head more than his talent. By then he had moved to safety, but he was an older player and he was wise.

I used to call him the Cowboys Poet, Lariat instead of Laureate, like he's the Lariat, like a cowboy, you know, okay. But that's really good. Thank you. Thank you. and so I always went to him for the ultimate wisdom about what just happened and he just, he was sitting on a stool and he just looked up at me and he said, that kid is for real.

Jim on, too. Yes. And I knew when he said that, that he knew they weren't going anywhere except up. He had been convinced that day. And he then in the same interview, he told me, when it comes out of his hand on tape, it doesn't look like he has great velocity. He said, trust me, it's better than you think.

It gets there faster than it looks because he throws so effortlessly and so beautifully. You know, he just had pretty mechanics and just easy, easy velocity, where he said, I could hear it today. I could hear the sizzle of it. You know this. Yeah.

Okay. And so when he told me that, I thought, because they were an older football team. The Niners were young. Yeah. And so you could just feel that the torch just got past and the torch had been used to torch the Cowboys, right?

That's what happened. Man. And it wouldn't be the same for Dallas until Jerry and Jimmy recreated it 10 years later, you know? 10 years later. It's really 12, 13 years later. Yeah. And then you could argue that the Walsh dynasty,

it's up there with any dynasty ever, right? It's the Montana. Four for four? Yeah. And they didn't just, I know they had a hard time with Cincinnati the second time, but they were just killing. They just.

Chargers, they blew them out. They just blew them out. They were blowing teams out in the suit. In Elway, they just. People don't realize how good those defenses were for those Niners, too. those defenses that was and truly

as Troy Aitman will tell you today he said this a few months back I don't have three Super Bowl rings without Charles Haley well Charles Haley

was a Walsh pick out of where do you go like James Madison or a small school you know where and Walsh said there I can

he can play and so they used him as kind of a monster like a quasi, you know. Plug the middle up. Yeah, like a safety linebacker who could just run and hit and nasty and crazy. Yeah, he was definitely crazy.

He was definitely crazy. In a great way that you need on the football field. You just do. You need a little crazy on there. And so then the whole Dallas, San Francisco rivalry was recreated when Jerry Jones went to Carmen Policy and somehow talked policy out of a player, Charles Haley, that they had decided was way more trouble than he was worth.

And just before the 92 season starts, wait, they just basically gave away Charles Haley to Dallas. Yikes. Because Dallas didn't have a Charles Haley. And so now, Charles Haley was the closest thing to Lawrence Taylor I ever saw. And he was hand in dirt, typical prototypical defensive end. But my God, he was just unblockable. Like every play, you just watch two people try and they just couldn't. He's a large man, too.

He was large and extremely explosive, like natural, like grown man strength explosive. And all of a sudden, they go to Candlestick at the end of the 92 season, and they flipped the script on the 49ers. They flipped the freaking script. They did. And by then, are you a 49er fan? Or are you? By then, I mean...

I really remember 49ers. I mean, my dog's names were Dwight and Montana as a little kid. Yeah, I mean, my dad stopped being a Niners fan when they went to Steve Young, but I still loved them. Okay. Like, that's how big Joe Montana was. You know, a lot of people stopped liking the Niners. We liked the Chiefs for a couple years. Okay.

And then, but I love the Niners. You know, I was a big Niners fan. And don't forget, Brady was four years old and attended this game at four. He was at this game. I mean, they were the biggest thing in the world. You got to think about it. Yeah. And San Francisco doesn't get enough credit for how great of a sports town it really was.

I mean, the giants were all outrageous. The warriors were good at this early 70s. They sucked for a long time. But then they became what they became. And the Niners. I mean, the Niners started to win the 80s. It flipped the city. Everyone loved it.

I mean, it was Niner Mania. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind. And now, I've got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week.

Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

And... Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. So that night, I had to go back to the St. Francis. Obviously, the team went on home.

but that January 10th night, I have to go back to the St. Francis and try to sleep while around Union Square in San Francisco. It's a parade of cars honking their horns, and it goes until sunup. Seriously, until sunup, I couldn't sleep a wink because I had an early flight, and I just laid there saying,

they got me again. They got me on the field, and then they got me here, right? Gotcha. Those darn San Franciscans. Jack, rock this one. up and let's grade it. That one finishes up, 28, 27, the Niners win. Go on to beat the Bengals in the Super Bowl.

We got to put a little show. We talked about all the Hall of Famers in this game, all the insane moments. We got to give it a little shine to the guys there broadcast in this game. He had Vern Lunkwis, Pat Summerall, Vin Scully, Jack Buck, Chris Berman, and Skip, all in the building. That's insane. That is an insane lineup right there.

That's an insane lineup. Pretty darn cool, man. It'd be unbeatable if you had Kosell and Madden. Oh, my gosh. That would be unbeatable. Holy smokes. But yeah, and then this would spawn one of the best dynasties

of all time. SF Super Bowls in 84, 88, 89 and 94. Now you got a statue of this play. Before we grade it, what was the best part of covering the Cowboys in 81? Everson Walls. Because

this is a true story. You're going to think this is like impossibly crazy, but before the first preseason game, I'm sitting in the press box and I'm scanning what they call the flip card that had all the lineups on it. And I see this kid is listed named Emerson Walls,

E-M-E-R-S-O-N-Walls, and just catch my eye for a second. And then I told you he blocked a punt early in the game, and I thought, wait, that's Emerson Walls. And he's from grambling. And then I go down after the game and I introduce myself to him,

and he said, I'm from Dallas. I grew up not far from me. Really? I said, it's nice to meet you, Emerson. He said, no, my name's Everson. I said, oh, they got it wrong on the flip card.

Okay? So this is the kid who's going to be first team all pro corner this year, okay? And that's how far he had to come and became, not that I'm ever friends with players, but I knew him very well. And he's a really good guy, I, Kib Talib, my guy on Arena Gridiron, knows his nickname's Cubby Walls. And he made an Edelman-esque career, you know, coming from, quote, unquote, nowhere and won a Super Bowl with the Giants.

But to watch his rise that year from Emerson Walls to first team all pro 11 interceptions, it's impossible. So that's, that was a cowboy storybook story. And that was the best part of, of going to him after games. Because whoever he's covering would get like 10 targets a game. Yeah, they're getting out of it. Because they're going to get that kid who ran 4'8. Wow. Emerson Walls.

You mentioned, you mentioned his two picks in this game. Yeah. He also had a funboard recovery. Wow. There you go. Man. So that's three of their six turn over. All right.

Let's, let's grade. Let's do it. I mean, this game only has one. name. We usually give everyone an option, a bunch of options. This is the catch game, okay? There's nothing else. Score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time?

Let's score it, Skip. We always encourage our guests to use decimals. I don't know. It's just part of the grading system. It's better for the algorithm. Stakes of this organizational transferring of dynasties

NFC championship. What's your scale that you're going to score? 0 to 10 decimals encouraged. Okay. 10 being a milt. It's the most important. This is a 10. This is 10.

Oh, baby. Yes. Not a Super Bowl. Not a Super Bowl. No. Okay. That's fair. That's fair.

But dynasty shifting. It's a dynasty shift. It's, it's. Legacy is on. I mean, we're 45 years away from this thing. We're still talking. about that's how big it is pretty darn important game in the history of our league it's not a Super Bowl but

but it was the Super Bowl it's remembered more than the Super Bowl it's remember it until the Super Bowl he played the Patriots that was the Super Bowl yeah I know that's true yeah sometimes some years are like that so we have done this game before with Chris Berman so there's a score you already done your score if you want to say it or if you want to change it I gotta stay I gotta 97 97 just say it just 95 95 95 95

Jack did 97 I had a 9.3 Chris Berman had a 10 as well okay star power of this game, zero to 10, decimal's encourage. I will say. All the fame coaches. Tom Brady's in the building. Tom Brady's there is a four-year-old. Skips there. Skip's there. Chris Berman's there. Chris Berman's there.

Chris Bermann. Scully. Danny White, not a big star. Walls. Walls? All pro there. Some walls is all pro. John Martinez. I'm going to give the star power an 8.5. 8.5. And I'll tell you why. Remember, I covered a Super Bowl 13.

between Dallas and Pittsburgh. It would have been two seasons before. And it was the greatest collection of Hall of Fame talent on one field in its prime, in its prime I ever saw. Those two teams, Dallas, Pittsburgh, go back and look at the Hall of Famers on the Steelers and the Cowboys.

So compared to, if I compare this to that, this is an 8.5. I'm with you, Skip. I mean, you bring, the prep you executed that one that's right the gameplay of this game

six turnovers I went 90 I went 90 as well I went 9.6 Chris point 9.2 the gameplay of this game six turnovers for the Niners they tried to give it away

to the Cowboys three for the Cowboys I mean we got picks left and right the block was there a block kick no there wasn't a block kick no but the game's way of this game I mean it was it brought

the six stadium down at the end. Zero to 10 decimals encouraged. I'm going to give it a 5.0. Ooh. Now, what's the explanation on that, Skip? Nine turnovers, an uncalled horse collar because there's no penalty for a horse collar.

Skip, we can't get mad at the penalties that weren't invented yet. We didn't invent it for another 40 years. Inside 2020. Five. Well, I went to 10. I got it like justify integrity. That's true.

I gave it at 8.4. I went 8.1. I would 9.1. Chris Burman went 8.1. Okay. The name of the game, the catch, the significance that everyone knows

about this specific game for this specific name, the cultural relevance, the name of the game, zero to 10 decimals encouraged. It's an 11. Yes. We can't.

We can break the record. You know. I went 9-1. I went 9-7. I went 9.9 and Chris went also 10. Where does it go? Where does it? So this game is already real high up.

It was, it's a 9.11. It is, it dropped a little bit. Right now it was our fourth. Honestly, I agree with skips grading more. Yeah. It's dropping down to our new eighth overall, just ahead of the 1993 conference finals, Kings versus Maple Leafs.

Too high. We just did the game. And the 2016 World Series Game 7, Cubs versus Indian. Game 7 World Series and such a crazy drought. You see the catch. Everyone,

I don't get where you are on this earth. You know that play in that game. But I digress. What do you think about the list, Skip? What's too high?

What's too low? From just top 25. Would you believe Quick Story? Number six, I was at the Miracle on Ice game. Whoa. By accident,

because I'm covering the Lake Placid Winter Olympics, 1980, for the Dallas, what were the Dallas morning news? And we get to the final Friday night of the fortnight of the two weeks. And I'm thinking, I got nothing.

What am I going to write about today? And I go up and ask the press liaison mid-afternoon, do you have any tickets for the hockey game tonight? Because, remember, Russia and the U.S. had played an exhibition at Madison Square a garden like a week, two weeks before. And Russia blew them out. It was like 10 to 2. And everybody

thought it was going to be 10 to 2. And I asked the Presley as on, he said, I got nothing but tickets. You want one? I said, yeah, I'll take one. And so he's just like given away. And I happen to be sitting next to an old friend of mine from the Buffalo News named Larry Felcer, who was a hockey guy and I was not. I didn't grow up with hockey. So I didn't know it very well, if at all. So he talked me through the game and I was at rinkside, you know, like I was there. How electric was that after they won? Okay. Remember, it's in this tiny little arena that holds, I don't know, 5,000 maybe. And it's on tape delay. It's not live TV. So Al Michael's call wasn't heard by America until very late at night because I don't think the game started,

Eastern time. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. And it was this, it was the semi, it wasn't the championship. The gold game. Yeah. So anyway, but I'm glad you have that up there. I got, you know what, I got no issues with your list. I just, I've told you this, that you're super bold, I'm sorry, Super Blood Wolf Moon game. To me, just to my eye, as great as 28 to 3 was. The one that got me was was that one because nobody converts three straight, third, and tens. You just don't, it's impossible. The odds are billions to one that you're going to have, you're going to face three straight, third, and tens and convert all three.

It's, you know and I know. 28 to three is. I got to be in a couple billions to one, too. Okay. I got it. But it was like slow but sure. Like when I watched it after a while, I'm like, this is going to happen. right?

Because you just, you got them. You turn them back into the Atlanta Falcons. You know, like you, I could just see in your body language. I know you had to make the catch of, that was a catch.

It didn't, didn't end the game, but it saved the, you can have argued at won the game, right? It was, it was just only a second down. Yeah, okay.

But for you to catch two of the three balls in overtime in the cold at Kansas, it's impossible. and to just to execute three straight plays where you're going to, I guess it was, did you have single coverage? They were trying. So what they were doing was Sorensen, they were dropping them in the middle of the field. And so, of course, I was hitting these crosses.

We'd run something on the outside. And then we finally, we would put Rob on the outside. And if we thought Sorensen was going to come to me, Tom gave him a two, which is a slant, hit him so he could pop right behind him. And so if you watch all game, I was running that thing, and they knew I was running it. So like the depth of my route would have to get like a little shorter because I had to get in front of that rat player or that thief or robber. Exactly.

And so like it was one of those things were like, I'm trying to get open quick. And I knew there was space. I knew Tom was going to bang it to me because I knew I was one of the first reads. And so it was just one of those things. But you got to get to 10 yards. You still got to get to 10. Yeah. Okay.

You get to it. And the one time he didn't throw to me, Sorensen was there, but it was just like every time it was like, ball hit, ball hit. Like get open. If I see any space, you obviously know in your head as a player, especially with us, where the first down marker was. But it was gnarly to me. It was crazy because they knew it was coming.

We just dolled it up a little differently. Who hit you? Did Sorensen hit you both times? Swarison hit me once. Another time he came down, I made him miss. And then another guy came in and got me. You know, I haven't watched it in a long time. Okay. So when the ball is in the air, do you have any thoughts in your brain? Because I know how my brain would work. My brain would be screaming, don't drop this. No, my brain was screaming, like I think on one of them or two of them, you're kind of like when you're getting open, you're peeking. at that area.

And so if you see that he's going to be there, I'm sitting there brace up, get ready, you're going to have to take a hit. Okay. But you didn't think about ball drop, ball got to catch? And especially with that game with the whole, did he touch it, did he not think? No, I think you're,

I wasn't thinking about that at all. I was thinking like, we got to go win this. Okay, because if you don't catch it, you lose. Yeah, we do. Okay. In hindsight, you could say that, but,

It's one of those things. We're going to your point through our preparation. The practice execution became the game reality. And that's one of the things that Belichick did very well. He made practice so hard. He would have, you know, he would make the defensive, if the D.Bs were good at the line of scrimmage, he'd have the guys line up off sides,

two inches from your face. He'd tell him to grab. like he would tell him to do this. He would have, you know, the guys at the line of scrimmage trying to bat the passes down because we knew we had to, you know, go across the middle of the point. Like, he made all these situations so hard that like we got so mad and we got so mad about it that we wanted to beat it so much in practice.

By the time we got to the game, you got a regular look. You're like, fuck, this is easy. We've been doing it all week. Exactly. Just like you. Okay. That's part of Belichick's genius that I don't fully appreciate because that's what you experienced and you knew that I wouldn't. That's intense preparation.

We had, I think that's, that is the theme of why our teams were our teams was the preparation. It wasn't just practice. It was being attentive in the meeting rooms. We had the craziest walkthroughs. So you would go from, you know, installs to a walk through of everything you just installed to put in your pads on and then go walking through it again. It's getting the athlete, the muscle memory. Because if you can take the thinking away from the athlete, it allows him to play. Bingo.

You took the, he took your thinking away because it's all muscle memory. And your muscles are tired in a good way. but they're they're so practiced that now it's all instinctive on your part. It's just you just react to the situation. And in your mind, you feel like I'm more prepared than any of these people around me are, right? These defenders. Maybe. But as Scott O'Brien, a special team genius used to say, it's like deja vu.

It's like deja vu once you do it again. Scottie-Oh. Scottie-oh. No, no. That was awesome, Skip. Way to go. I enjoyed this. Did we miss anything from this game? No, I'm afraid you, I think you heard too much. No, that was awesome.

Everyone's going to love, I mean, people love this game. Now you make me, I need to go get a copy of it and just sit down and watch it again. Definitely worth it. Worth it. It is definitely worth it. Everyone, thanks to Skip. Thank you so much for coming on. Go check out the arena, gridiron. He's got the basketball.

What is the basketball? Gills Arena. And then the arena, Gridiron with the football guys, great content. You got great guys on there that are given great player perspective. Then you got the King Debater in there

that brings in all the heat. Yeah, baby. He puts these guys in their place because, you know, you can't go a half-ass it with skip. And I tell you, sometimes these guys,

these ball players think they could just get off the knowledge of no one playing. Now, you got to bring in the homework. And you were prepared for this show. Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate that.

Skip, I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much. Enjoyed it. Thank you. Man, I'm feeling a little thirsty. I feel like I need to rehydrate. Oh, snap. Look at that.

Oh, snap. Look at that. Oh, that's three. Oh. That's three. Got more? Oh, fuck. Oh, it's my favorite, though.

It's my favorite one. The sugar-free ring pop. Classic. So drink up and lock in Because it's time for everyone's favorite game Do you know ball The game where we answer football questions So thought provoking

You'll need a liquid IV at the end Let's get into it Do you know ball? You ready for question number one? I'm ready for question one. Question number one, which NFL player? Oh, you see this beautiful blue bottle though? That's very nice.

perfect amount of water for it. I like that. Very grippable. Very grippable. You know what? And it's metal. It's metal. So we're,

I like that. Good reusable. Reusable? Reusable? Like that. We like reusable. Reusable. Looks great.

How's it sip? Oh my gosh. And it keeps it nice and chilly. Oh, I can shout out liquid IV. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind and now got my own show.

So if you're tired of, lazy takes if you want honest conversations join us each week. Film Never Lies available on all TSN platforms in the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own

podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. All right, what do we got?

First question is, which NFL player will have a breakout season this year? Who are you thinking? I think Kyler Murray. Like that in the new home. I think Kyler Murray, I mean, he's going to Minnesota with Justin Jefferson, who's... Jetta. He's like a bunch of potential.

energy waiting to drum over into that kinetic energy. You know, he's just balled up waiting to blow up another crazy season. And then you have Addison. You got a really good tight end. You got running backs. You got Kevin O'Connell. QB Whisperer. QB Whisperer.

I think this is going to be the best we've seen Kyler Murray play. And Kyler Murray, I mean, what, four or five years ago, four years ago when I first got in the TV, brought a team to seven and oh, eight and O or something with Arizona, Cliff Kingsbury. Another QB whisper.

So I think he's going to have, I think he's going to have one of those, you know, the new age quarterback that leaves the team, the Sammy D, the Baker, whatever you want to call it. I think he could be the next one. I like that. A little change of scenery might be good.

Heck yeah. Ready for the next one. Next one. What will be else? Got you, I'm in a rip it. You got it. Name a deep cut NFL player.

What does that mean? Just a guy you randomly think about sometimes. A real deep cut player. Real deep club. Bobby McCain. Oh, I like that. I don't know why. I like that.

That's what we're looking. It just came to my head. That's what we're looking for. We got in a fight. We used to fight all the time. Jack, you do one. I like this.

I love this. Sometimes I think of Tim Biakabatuka. Remember him? Tim Biakabatuka, Michigan, running back Carolina Panthers. James had a little bit of fumble problem. James had a great name too. And he was a really.

He's from Amherst. Amherst played with us. And then, but I remember him on the Ravian. Ravens, right? He's a raven for a while. Guy guy who you got? I'm going to go teamer.

John Runyon. Oh, classic. John Runyon? That's a football player right there. I like that. Okay, Jack, you got one. All right. Next up, Dules, who is one NFL player

you wish you'd gotten to play with? One player I wish I got to play with. It would have been pretty cool catch some touchdowns from Joe Montana. Not a matter of that. You know, I would have been pretty cool. Or, uh, you know, I think

you get to play with someone you grew up with and him and his prime, me and my prime, it would have been fun. That's some Bay Area connection right there. Jerry right next to you. Oh my God, could you imagine? That would be so fun. Oh, man.

Can you give us an example of your snap count when you were a quarterback? I forget my snap count in college, but I know what the snap count is. Like, well, because I, everything that I learned at Kent, like the protections when I was a quarterback, the number system that we used at Kent

was completely different than the number system that we used at New England. So like a 70s protection was scat for me in college and there were some carryover where there was 80s and 80s and like so I get confused. I'm a football player. But I've heard Brady's snap count so much and our snap count usually was white 20,

white 20 set hut. That would be on one, on two would be white 20, white 20 set hut, hut, and then we had alpha. That was, you know, everyone wants to talk about quick snap. Alpha was, we got to play everything. We want to go fast.

Alpha, alpha, alpha, blue go. If dog, dog, you know, you could dog, dog, dog, blue go. So there's a bunch, black 88. Black it did. I like that. That was, that was three. No clap.

White 20. Why? Check easy. Check easy. That's me right there. I'm calling an audible. You got to check it easy for the linemen. Check easy.

Check easy. Hey, hey. Gold Gucci. Gold Gucci. Mike right. Mike right. Alpha, blue. There it is, baby.

That's how you would do it if you were checking it. If you were, if you, maybe you had a molasses. Melasses, there was, there's no play. So we can say as much as we want. You can go, white 20. Alpha. Oh, white 28, black, white, white, white. You could do whatever you want until you call to play,

and then you had a hot color that we would change. Say ours, you know, for the week would be gold. So you could have something, you couldn't go unless you heard gold. So you'd be like, white 20s and hot. And you would do that to try to get the defense to jump. And then you go, all right, hey, hey. Tom will give me a little something. Gold 88.

Oh, idiot! We also used to have a green bay cadence. Oh, we called it Green Bay. Because Aaron Rogers was elite at getting guys to jump, and then also snapping the ball. So we used to have Green Bay where we could only, we could, whatever, he could do whatever he want. Yellow was like the live color.

and then we were, if, if we got someone to jump, we told the center to snap to try to do the Aaron Rogers and everyone turns into all go. So like there was, the cadence is such a huge thing. It's been really fun to watch John Gruden's, yeah, coach thing. Yeah. Where he's got all these quarterbacks and he brings them in.

And a lot of these kids are doing the clap. And it's used as a tool in the NFL, you know what I mean? That's how you can get pre-snap pictures. You can, you can see what they're doing. and you can give your linemen a jump, you know, because these guys are all the best dudes in the league that you're going against. After you just did yours there,

I think somewhere on this earth, John Gruden is smiling. He's smiling somewhere right now after hearing that. Lock 88! Black it eight! White 20! A plus right there, baby. Thomas was always white.

He was white 20. White 20. You know, he's like, Linda, Linda. That was a protection. Linda, Linda. L left. You sliding them.

Rhonda, Rhonda. Linda, Linda, I don't know what the other one was. Because Rhonda was a screen. Like I get so disappointed in my, my memory sometimes. I got to go back and, I want to go back and, that's why I like going back to the Patriots camp sometimes and they let me sit in the meetings. Yeah.

Because I'm like, oh, shit, yeah, I'm getting like refreshed. Whenever you get to go. That's why it's always for me, like I like to visit camps. Because if you don't use it, you lose it. it and like I'm not sitting here talking ball with people that always know like the ball that we played but when you go what me and jack don't know a ball like that you guys don't know the intricacies of the language just like I don't know the art of of course making shit like you guys there's a balance to it a directing thing that's right but the art of making shit I love it uh last one we got a wrap up

all right last one jules as a ball knower what is the biggest mistake you see NFL coaches making these days. It just drives you up a wall. Going forward on fourth. Yep. So much. I know the game has changed, but, you know, there's so many times where we hear during the game, you know, you got some announcer, someone's going to say, oh, you know, the coach said we needed to go for it on fourth down because we needed to score points.

And then the game turns out to be like 18 to 16 or 15. You know, it's like some weird non-crazy scoring game. You know what I mean? I think there's such a premium on possession and, and field position as a former special teams guy. You know, I think playing the game that way, everyone says the game's evolved, all the, what is it called?

The genetic, um, analytics. Analytics. Like, I'm, I'm, what, what analytics can't tell you is, you know, how you're, team feels if you get stuffed, how the defense feels when they got to come on the field again. You know, like the flow of the game. So I think the going forward on fourth down, you have to do it sometimes. Right. I mean, there's some guys going out there. This is like when I used to play Madden in 90, I think these guys are my age and these motherfuckers, all these coaches used to play

so much Madden and no one went punted it on Madden. This punting sucks in Madden. Nothing quarter to Matt. Cluff and Corner. That's what we're doing. Don't go on fourth down. I mean, everyone's playing Madden right now. MCDC, I'm looking at you, brother. I'm not saying, I'm not saying it. That was a tough segment. That was tough.

It must be thirsty. Yeah. I'm thirsty after that. Man, I get tired after that. I'm thirsty. Good thing this is at the end of the episode. Man. Now I'm hydrated.

It is. And that was another edition of, do you know ball presented by Liquid Ivy? Get hydrated. What a game. And thanks again to old Skip Baylist. That's been another episode of Games with Names. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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