Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules - The Catch with Chris Berman | Cowboys vs. 49ers

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

Chris Berman is in studio! We are coming to you from The Nuthouse San Francisco presented by Liquid I.V. Boomer is with us to relive an all-time classic, that he was in on the sidelines for: The Catch aka the 1981 NFC Championship Game between the Dallas Cowboys and the San Francisco 49ers.  (00:00) We kick things off. (0:32) Chris joins us in studio. (1:12) We talk about the game this weekend. (45:06) We go back to January 1982. (54:02 We get into the teams. (1:11:08) We dive into the game. (1:20:23) We score it. (1:22:09) We wrap up by hearing about Kyler and Jackie's trip to media day. Support the show: https://hoo.be/dudesondudesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stigatz here. I have a podcast empire that I have brought here to IHeart, and I'm also hosting a daily live radio show from 3 to 5 p.m. Eastern called Stegots & Company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. You can expect a lot of laughter, great guests, a ton of calls, and a lot of fun. Listen to Stugats & Company Live and our original podcast, Stugats and Company, and God bless football. And you can check all of those out on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

January 10th, 1982 Candlestick Park, San Francisco, California. Joe Montana, drive begins on the 11th. They're all the way down to the five. It's third down against the Dallas Cowboys. Joe, rolling right, in trouble. Looking for Freddie Solomon. He slipped. Pump fake.

What? He throws it over two tall Jones. He's dropping back, back, back. Is that Dwight Clark in the back of the end zone? This is the catch. That was a... I mean, it was... That's why when I write, I got to write a thing,

you know, which I always do for SPN, too, which I don't usually anymore, but... And I got stuck with the score with those guys. Because it was Friday, I hadn't even thought about it. Like, oh, fuck, I can't pick a score. And now I can't change it. So I went, whatever I picked. Somewhere in there, Seattle has to get a one.

yard run. Not to win the game. That would be too much. They have to have a one-yard run off right tackle, or left tackle. You know why they didn't run it? Ask Pete. Not to run this yet. Like in April, Pete. I said when Hightower stood up Marshon, when they were about to go up by the play before, no, no. Well, the play before we found out of, no. Third quarter, they were rolling. They had not all their D.Bs hurt. You had offensively. They were rolling. They were rolling. and they ended up by seven and they were at about the 15 third and one and Hightower stood up Marshall off tackle

and they kicked a field goal. They went up by 10 but not 14 I said was that in the back of your mind just a little bit. Well that and there you go. You remember that play? The play right before the play High Tower got him on the ground on the hole

on that there was a there was like it parted like the day's. He gained four but not but he but Hightower tower got him down. High Tower was unreal. He was like an old-time linebacker because the linebackers have changed through my career from my first got in the league. They were 245, 250. Then now they're hybrid guys that are 230 that can run faster than me. So he was a hybrid guy where he was 250, 255 and he could still cover ground, you know, and he can plug those holes. He did.

But there's one in the third quarter and I said Pete, did you remember that? He goes, a little bit. I don't think anybody had asked him that either. No, the personnel group that he put in, they put in like ultra, ultra, run heavy, all run guys except two defensive backs that were going to be man guys

that were Browner and Butler. We never heard of. We never heard of them. I mean, we barely heard of. heard of them. You know, I'm just saying, right, right, no. But you, the very first day at training camp, Malcolm Butler, you could tell that he was going to be a ball player. He was, he was fearless at the line of scrimmage, and he had long, he was a smaller guy, but he had really long arms, and he was really great at contacting you. And then he had a great, he had a great ability

to be able to run while the ball was in the air and not lose speed. A lot of guys, is when you're a defensive back, when you put your head back, you lose your speed because they've got to put their arm up. You know what I mean? So you naturally drop your speed, and then, but he could always gain his makeup speed

and still do it. Like the play against Curse was an unbelievable play that he had the crazy catch on, but that was an unbelievable play by... I was right there. I'll tell you that story on camera. I was right at the five, because we do prime time right after the game.

We're not on the field. to like five minutes, but they're down there. Two cheeks in. That's why they rushed and they didn't, there was no, no, I said, I can say it now, I went to Tommy Jackson and I was standing there. He fucking caught that, Tom. Oh my God, every lip reader just saw.

But I was knees down. They never saw. I mean, I'm right, he caught it right there, both butts in. Oh, you need him like, I could see it. One cheek ear in? Well, but they were all in. And I went, he fucking caught that, Tom, like, oh, Jesus. All right. We can go on.

This is too good. Well, good to be with my buddy. Nice to see you. I'm proud of you. Thank you very much. Thank you. We ready? I'll start it up and we'll get into it.

Welcome to Games with Names. Today we are looking at the 1981 NFC championship game with the catch featured in it with the man who was at the game that called the game. No, he was at the game and he was recapt.

He was on the field at the game, and we're not talking about Tom Brady. We're talking about the one and only Chris Berman. Boom, welcome to the show. In one question or in one sentence, why did you pick this game? It was almost the start of my career. Joel, good to see you as a buddy. You know, we've known each other a long time. Very long time.

I was a young man, and I can remember things like it were yesterday. Don't ask me what I had for breakfast today. I'm 70. Yeah. I was 26 then. 26. And right there. And there's a lot of other reasons why we picked that game,

but it was those guys became and are still my friends, because that was their age of the players. You guys were kids. I mean, this was before the Niners were the Niners. This was the jump to what the Niners became. You just started with ESPN and what, 79? Yeah, so I've been there two years. Two years?

I'm covering the NFC. Bech of Gann. It's been my dream, you know. Is this the greatest game of all time, though? That's a big, that's a big ask. Well, that's one of them. I mean, historically, it lit the match, if you want to put it that way. So as I look back historically, I mean, there are other games of that, or you might pick another one, and there's a few.

There's obviously quite a few. But I don't mean quite a few, but there's Super Bowls. Many you were in. not even talking about the one everyone thinks I would be talking about, like, how about the upset of the Rams, which started the Patriots? So now as a history major, not that that makes me so smart, but that's what I studied, Jules, at Brown. You know, when I was in the library, I did study the history.

But I'm a football historian. And as I look back at, that was the start of the Niners, and we could look back at when the Cowboys started, the way, you know, the Rose Bowl, they beat the bills, although that was a shorter run, but great. Immaculate reception. Pittsburgh didn't win the Super Bowl that year, but that started them.

But this is all in retrospect now. And obviously you beating the Rams, the St. Louis Rams' greatest show on turf, the Patriots, that started something. But this started not, I'm going to get bigger than that, bigger than that. Football, when I'm in college, in the 70s, and I'm certainly old enough in the 60s.

I grew up at Shea Stadium, Joe Namath. We had season ticket to the Jets. I was eighth grade. They won the Super Bowl. Okay? So I'm an NFL guy. Yeah, yeah. They threw the ball.

The NFL ran. We threw. We. I still say we. Okay. 70s. It was pretty much the Steelers, who won four with the, you know, the Steel Curtain defense. Dallas won a couple of Super Bowls what they do with a defense.

The Rams were very good. They didn't win any Super Bowl, but this is how it was played. Miami, of course, was undefeated, 72. They might have a better team in 73, even though they lost two games, and they won two Super Bowls in a row, and the Raiders.

That was kind of it. Like, think of that type of football. Somebody got 19 in one of those games. I don't mean like they were boring, but the rules were different. I don't know to tell you. I mean, you wanted to go one-on-one with Mel Blunt. It was a different game.

Good luck, too. It was a different game. Yeah. So point is, here's the Niners, 81. Unknown. Six and ten the year before. Playing a six and ten team to Bengals. Bill Walsh.

Yeah, why wouldn't the head coach before this? What was the matter? Well, nothing was the matter. Joe Montana, Notre Dame quarterbacks. None of them were ever any good in the pros. I mean, there are a couple, and I'm short-trifting, but at the time it wasn't.

There wasn't Joe Montana yet. Well, yeah. And there weren't a lot of the Notre Dame guys that went in the pros were good. I mean, Paul Horning would, but he really wouldn't have any, we can go on and on. Yeah, Joe Montana, okay. Yeah, he won the Cotton Bowl. Nice. The Niners are terrible.

They've been terrible. And there's a new kind of offense. So football at that time was not medieval. This isn't medieval football. I would never call that. I mean, that was like you better buckle your chin strap. Round and pound. Right. But as that changed, not that everybody ran the West Coast offense, but it was, oh, there's another way to do it.

Not football's changing. You know, Barack Dickerson wants to run for 2,000 yards. We can still run the ball in the 80s. See what I'm saying? But nobody had 1,000 yards that year for the Niners. I think Earl Cooper had like 800 yards, but I think he caught 90 passes, is my point. like that would be a four-yard run, the four or five yard over here to the back. Well, is that the way to do it?

So it kind of changed things. That's what I mean. So not only the Niners, I think it evolved football offensively. 1,000%. That's why. That's why is it one of the most important games ever? Absolutely.

Yeah, what's the most important game? It's the Super Bowl 3 with Namath? That's important. Was it a great game? No, this was a great game. And this was, you know, beating the Cowboys in 81, coming off of one of the great teams in the 70s. This was the stage for the San Francisco 49ers who were in their 36th year in existence, having sniffed a championship.

Like, everything associated with San Francisco was just, it was a weird city. This was the start of San Francisco becoming a football town. Correct. except for one little bit in the 70s, 70s, 71, 72. No, I didn't know all this. I didn't realize what it meant to the Niners fans when I came out there, but quickly realized it. The Cowboys eliminated him the only three times they made it to,

they were in a playoff once for the West in the 50s. I mean, that's a long time ago. Cowboys in 70, Cowboys at 71 title games, and then 72. John Brody was quarterback. He just passed away. They were really good teams. So that was, ooh, then 49ers.

That's right. They're in the league. And Staubeck had a, they were down by 15 at Candlestick and 72. So three years in a row, we finally got good. And Dallas knocked us out. And here they are again, 10 years later. So for the Niners fan, it was not only just, hey, we might go to the Super Bowl with this new offense. It's them.

That's a big deal. And that's a big them. The Cowboys being America's team, that all grew. like the 10 years prior to that. Like that's when they became the Cowboys because before that you had the Purple People Eat there was a whole lot of it and the Cowboys became the Cowboys in the 70s

when they made that stadium, that Gagawatch, you know what I mean? Now, we'll jump into the game, but how many Super Bowls, Boom, have you been to? Well, the first one was that year when the Niners won and then they played the Bengals in Pontiac and the Silver Dome. And negative 32.

Arctic. Well, it reminded me, we played against in Minnesota, and it was freezing there. Yes. Arctic. Arctic. One time you're happy to play in like a geodome. I mean, the Silver Dome was all right, okay? I mean, it was all right.

But for me, oh, my God, it's my first. So 81, my first two books, I was, like 44, 45, whatever the number is. I mean, I've been blessed to do it. I mean, you always think as a young, kid, boy, I want to be Brent Musburger, I'd like to go. And then I remember that Super Bowl game, two weeks later, and walked in, you know, four hours early.

Oh my God, I'm at the Super Bowl. So you asked me, I remember that, my first one, was 44 or 45 was with the math. And, you know, when I was young, most of the games ended up being blowouts. I don't mean young, really. Even 80s, 90s, a lot of them were blowouts.

A lot of them. But it kind of changed in the last 25 years. For as many as the Patriots, all of their run, almost all of them have been unbelievable. It's not like, well, the 89-9ers won 55 to 10. But there were a lot of those. If not by 45 points, there were a lot of 30 points. San Diego was beating the crap, getting the crap beat out of them in a couple Super Bowl.

I remember when the Niners beat them in, what, 94, 95? Yeah, blew them out? By 49 to, 49ers had 49, which I always, and Steve ran for 49. I thought that was interesting, by the way. But the point, oh, I got one. Do you know that when Pittsburgh won one of their Super Bowls against Minnesota in the 70s, I was in college, you know what the half-time score was?

Two to nothing. Two-to-nothing. Steelers up. Two-run-home or Willie Stardial, okay? Two-nothing. Two-nothing. The Purple People Leaders against the Steel Curtain. Oh, my God. A safety, I don't know if it was a hold or a step.

I don't remember what it was, but two to nothing. Two to nothing. We did that game with Ed O'Neill. It was one of the coldest Super Bowls ever. It was in Tulane, but it was very cold. It was like 10 degrees. For a Newark? 10?

Yeah. It was really cold, yeah. I would watch them, you know, but at any rate, so that's what, to get back to the Niners, not that they scored 40 every game, but it changed football. Just like when Johnny and I just showed up, I'm really dating even myself. Two yards in a club of does. In the late 50s, like, ooh. So that's what a pocket looks like.

And here's Raymond Barry. with another beautiful 12-yard and it's a completion. Like, oh, we're also going to throw to the backs a little bit. I don't, you know, not him yet, but he revolutionized it,

and then 25 years later is Joe Montana, and then, you know, offenses since, but not every five years. It kind of changed things. It definitely changed things. And, you know,

it's a different, like we were talking, it's a different game. And it's because of the Niners. And then those Niners teams, when Bell, And Belichick was, you know, with the Giants.

He was the defensive coordinator there. He invented the nickel coverage, which was taking a linebacker out of the game, bring another defensive back in the game because you got running backs running routes. It became a different chess match than what it was, you know, prior to that because it used to be about the box, the 46 defense, the bear defense, got all these big ass bodies in the middle, we'll just plug it up. And then, you know, Bill Walsh comes out of here. He's throwing a Tom Rathman.

We never seen a fullback catch the football. Right. What is going on? What is this guy? This guy's 44. He's not supposed to be catching a football. He's got his head in the middle of the pocket, blowing up a hole. You know, and it was a huge change in the game.

It was. And nobody really knew it at the time, which is part of the thing. I mean, we look back at who was on those Niners teams. We'll jump into that game. We'll jump into that game. We'll jump into that game. game. What are your thoughts on what are your thoughts on this

Super Bowl? Seahawks Patriots. How unbelievable are these turnarounds for both these organizations? How fast first off. It's fresh. It doesn't mean that we don't want to see Patrick Mahomes in any more Super Bowl because we do. Yeah. Okay. I mean, let's but I mean the AFC

other than the bills, the whole thing was upside down. The Patriots are 75 to one, I think, to get to win the Super Bowl. by the way, was 60 to 1. Yeah. I heard of somebody

who just for fun, I've heard of this, I don't know the person, but I've heard of it. Five bucks on the, like in August that they would meet it, meet in the Super Bowl and got paid $17,000.

I'm told that. I mean, why would you put on New England won four games? Seattle won 10, but here are the Rams, here are the Niners, you know. I think I can, I have the justification of

Why? Because this person was probably born in New England, a Patriots fan, Saabrable was coming back, so he's like, Patriots in. Also, an Irish Catholic person knowing that there's a Pope in office, and every time there's a new Pope, the Seattle Seahawks are in the Super Bowl. Is that true? I don't know, but I just made it up. Even though the Pope is from Chicago, so Chicago, the Bears would have been a long shot, too. Bears? But anytime that is true.

Anytime Seahawks Steelers, 2006, with Pope Benedict, and then again with the 2014 with Pope Francis, and then now with the new Pope. I had not heard that one. So that's where I think that. That's why I come do this show. Because I learned, how would I know that? Popes? Football history, I got a lot of it.

But popes? I mean, I know they're all popes. If you said Benedict, yeah, not Edge Benedict. Pope Benedict, I got it. This is a podcast of, you know, know, learning people. This is, wow, I just learned, well, hell, so that, that, now we can explain it. Now it makes sense why the guy made the bet.

He's from New England, Irish Catholic, saw the Pope thing. Friend of theirs like Seattle. Five bucks. $17,000. Talk about a Hail Mary. One in one all time. One in one all time in Pope games for all you keeping score at home. We'll be right back after this quick break.

They're one and one all time in those, in those Pope games, if you will. This is the Pope rubber. Yeah. The Seahawks for one and one. On a Pope change. I don't know if you call it a rubber match or it's got to be something more religious than that. This could be the, I don't know what it would be. You and I are out of our league in this one, I don't know.

But when you see that smoke coming out of the chimney, buy your Super Bowl tickets. Well, if it's white or black smoke, right? I mean, now we're getting deep. We are. I'm going to have to do some research over there. I thought that was just for the home or away jerseys for the Seahawks. I don't even know who is wearing what. I don't even know that yet.

Pats are all way. That's what I thought and the Seahawks are all blue. First time that's ever happened. That'll look good. These are good, good looking, you know. This is an exciting game. Well, here's the thing. It's fresh.

So, well, we can refer back. No, we can refer back to nothing. except Josh McDaniel's calling plays. That is the only we can refer. Mike Grable didn't play in that game. Kraft, too. He didn't play, but he cared. He was there.

No. I mean, not, yeah, not many. Seattle. Those are the only two probably that are in. Jim Whalen. Hey, Trader. No, there's not. There's probably a couple Seahawk guys like that,

but there you go. There's nothing. It's only, but here's a thing. That game's only 11 years. It's not like, oh, 30 years ago. It was 10 or the Niners, Dallas thing. Oh, 30 years ago they broke our hearts. We're getting back at them.

No, no. But this is 11 years. The Marshawn Lynch isn't playing. Seattle should have a run for a yard for a touchdown at some point in the game. Off tackle. I'm just saying they should. I don't know the system. I'm not saying win the game on it.

If this is a pope thing, then if we believe in these sort of things, then that has to happen. and if you've gone to confession and said, you know, we should have run off tackle. So, so, so, I'm just saying, I'm going on a tangent that I never thought I would get in. But then again, we're in San Francisco. We are in San Francisco. And we go on tangents in this city, my favorite city in America, we go on tangents in this city that we didn't anticipate. We didn't.

We didn't anticipate. We did it. We did that, Matt Patricia on the show, explained for 30 minutes why a pass was the right call in that situation. and that the Seahawks were correct. For 30 minutes. Who did? Matt Patricia, our defense coroner. Well, you know what?

You know what? Second down, I get it. Not that past. And that's where we landed at. Maybe not that past. Well, what did Matt say with that? He just got in that, you know, the group that they put in, they had a beat on it,

that they would check into that play. If they put that specific other group in, I mean, it was a chess match. They knew that they were going to check into that play. if they gave them the certain personnel group that they gave. It was frenetic at that time, though. Nobody was calling timeout, this. I mean, it was like, do we call a timeout?

Do we not? I think both coaches, do I call it? I mean, for five seconds, do I call one defense? Do I, sorry, do I call one offense? They probably both for five seconds, not keep getting. I'm sure both Bill and Pete were, there was a five second thing like, do I call one, do I wait for, do I, yep, 12 seconds, we better go, you know. Right? I mean, you're, where are you? You're watching this like, oh, God, I'm on the, this can't be good, right?

No, I'm sitting there going over my two-minute drill call sheet, like, man, how many seconds are we going to have here? We're going to have, probably maybe 28. It's going to be, it's going to be tough. I was thinking that. I was thinking, all right, we're going to have to get maybe a shot. We can maybe get a Hail Mary. How's Gron feeling? He'll be our, you know, that's what I was thinking. Then, whoop. Pick. That's my line. exactly I mean it was it was crazy

and as I told you off camera curse we're on the field the last four or five minutes curse caught the ball right here like right here the moon ball to rustle through him right here I said oh my god both Tommy Jackson's standing with both cheeks are in both feet are in that's why people who are not going to look at that there's not to look at I see it

that's in like oh my god they it might go from 2824 New England a to this and then... Here's my memory that you will like. Here's a story I've told very few. So in the eight to five minutes, we have to get to the field. At some point,

I'm the only one in America and not watching the game because the eight-minute mark, we're gonna get down to the field, well, it's an elevator, and then you don't just run out there and go, hey, here we are, and you're going around and this. So all I could hear was the PA announcement. Brady's pass, complete to Edelman, first, down. Brady's pass

complete to Grunkowski burst down. Brady's pass complete to Shane Vreen burst down. I didn't know where it was. But that's all I had for three minutes. So I'm the only one in America not seeing you guys going down the field

for your, you know, setting. I just got there for the touchdown, right? It's weird. To give everyone, you know, an update at the time, this was the largest fourth quarter deficit in a Super Bowl that was becoming over Cade. Right. Right. It was an

exciting game. No, it was unbelievable. You don't even get to watch you. It was unbelievable. And it was bigger than that. Again, historical, which was not at the time yet, but as we look back. But Joe Torrey grew up in Brooklyn. Really? But there's a reason.

He was as a teenager at the greatest game ever played. The Colts and the Giants overtime, Johnny United, the Yankee Stadium. Amici off tackle. They win. That was called the greatest game, because that brought football kind of even up a little. It was an overtime game on TV and black and white TV at Yankee Stadium in 1958. I said, Joe, what do you remember?

I did an interview with him because he'd like to talk about other things, obviously, rather than who you're batting eighth, right? So, and why? Deflection, coach deflection. I said, what do you remember from that game? Well, boomer, I was 11 or 12 or whatever. We had, you know, bleach her tickets or whatever. And he goes, I remember the Yankee Stadium.

Yankees and Giants was an guy named Bob Shepard, the greatest voice of all time. I mean, there are others that might say his there's were, but all I can hear, Unitas is pass, complete to Raymond Berry, first down Baltimore. And I thought, oh my God, this is Tom Brady being John Unitas, because I've seen nothing. Give me credit for this. And this is kind of, explain that to many people. They don't even get it.

But it's almost refreshing. It almost brought like a nostalgia to you. Well, I didn't know where you, you know, you could have been at the one, you could have been at the mid, I mean, here is, I see nothing,

but all I hear, oh my God, he is actually going to lead another one of these drives. I don't know what the clock is. I don't know what the ball is. I don't know. Hey, we finally got,

they were just before your touchdown. So I missed all that. I mean, Jesus, bad five minutes to miss. But they didn't air lift me into the field, so that was, that's my story of, You've never heard that stuff, that's pretty good.

To the Baltimore Colts, they won 23 to 17 in overtime. With the one-yard touchdown. Yes, Alan Amici. But it was the greatest game ever played because at the time, pro football was a secret. They played it. People went. Don't get me.

College was bigger. Well, maybe not then, but still not TV. Not quite. Baseball was still the biggest. But this was, that's the first game TV-wise that, oh, because the Giants had Frank Yifford and Kyle wrote and the cult of Johnny and Nitis and I assume Mackie was the tight end. But in the end, a lot of Hall of, it was Yankee Stadium,

not just some other players, Yankee Stadium, and the United States won the next year. And that kind of put, and by the way, I mean, this is educated, Not that you need me to tell you this. The coach of the Colts, Weeb Eubank, he also coached Joe Namath and the Jets, arguably won the two biggest games in the history pro football.

Who is that? Who is that? U-B-U-Bank. Weebbe. U-B-A-N-K. E-W-B-A-N-K won the two biggest games, certainly of that time. I know we had the ice bowl. I'm going way back, you know,

and Immaculate, you know, I mean, Chuck, but he won, he coached Unitas, And then he beat the team, although Johnny didn't start in Super Bowl 3. He beat the team. The United States was the backup, then. He was the 40-year-old guy. And he won the two biggest games.

So that's, we're digressing, but look that up. Those two. Wow. So that's why we say, was this the greatest. Historic, it did things, but so did those two. Pat, so do the quarterback, and Vince Lombardi and Tom Langey were the offensive. Yes, correct. Correct.

Yes. One was offense, one was defense. Yes. the Colts. Yeah, they were the two offensive and the Tiddle wasn't there yet. Boom, who was your team as a kid? Jets. But I've had to

I still smile if they win. My dad would be excited. My brother and I went. It's painful. Did it change though as you became you know? No, the Jets will always be here because I grew up. You know what, Jules? Not that I'm a football

savant, but didn't know at the time we had season tickets, but in the upper deck, eight bucks a game, okay? 60s, okay? The whole NFL through. John Hedle, Lance Allworth, Chargers, the Chiefs, not as much, but Dawson, through.

Babe Pruly, through. Capoletti. George Belanda, Houston, we threw. We threw. The AFO rebels. But in the upper deck, and I've told your coach, Bill this, I said, I didn't look. I'm not young Bill Belichick watching with his father, game film, Navy.

But I didn't know I was watching pass patterns. Because a lot of 20-yard pass patterns. NFL were running off tackle, primarily. And I'm watching 11-on-11 as a kid. It doesn't make me so smart, but it got me an understanding that if I only was watching football on TV, I went to 70 games.

And that's vantage point. Wouldn't field level. It was up high. It was probably like game film you watch. Anyway, so that's right. You're basically Ernie Adams up there. I'm not as mysterious, okay? But we built a box at the highest point

of the stadium for Ernie Adams so he could watch the games. We're up, not all the way up, but at Shea Stadium, the plane's right here, okay? Like, hey, how's it going? There's Delta. So, but I have a saw spot for all the old AFL, meaning San Diego Chargers, meaning Buffalo. That's part of how I went.

went that direction. No one circles. Well, even. Patriots, they're only 18. We only had 18s. Yeah. I liked them all because they were our league. Even the Raiders who, that was a rivalry with Joe.

I mean, they broke his chin, Ben Davidson did. I mean, they, you know. But we liked all of those teams just because they were the AFL. We were 60s guys, you know. Man. Now, you know, the game. We talked about.

religion. There it is. There it is. There it is. Now, we're getting way off, Pat, but I can do that. Way off Pat. Where were we? Back to Joe Montana. No, whatever. No, but back to... Wherever you want to go. You know, this game, this Super Bowl, being in San Francisco or Santa Clara now, it doesn't have the same, but who do you got in this game? Let's just go. Let's just get this out of the way.

Seahawks, Pats, who do you got? shocked if it goes either way, I will give you the answer, but I mean, because how could we be? One 17 to 3, one 16 to 3. Well, they had an easy schedule. Well, they, no, none of that matters. None.

They know how to win. Seattle's won like nine in a row, and New England has lost one game since the end of September. So I don't care how you win. You win. You know, you know better than me. You win. You're expecting to win. You don't know how. Oh,

we're going to force a fumble recovery on a punt. That's how we win. Oh, we're going to kick you a stick to me. Oh, my quarterback's going to throw a bomb. I don't know. New England's defense is better than we think because they've out-defense three good defensive teams in the playoffs, as you know.

You know, the charter is a good defense. Obviously, Denver, the last thing they beat him. You could say, well, they had a backup court. So what? New England didn't fumble the ball at all. After two games of not the cleanest football. clean. You know, and the game before was Houston where May got sacked a million times because

those guys are really good. They happen to be really good. And so New England defense, there's got to be a chip on their shoulder, don't you think? We're still talking about Seattle. Well, it's the best defense in football. I will say that. Now, there you go, New England. I'm not saying, well, therefore, New England's, no.

Seattle's branded defense. I've been watching it all year, except against the Rams and very, very, very. very early Tampa Bay, when Tampa was going to the Super Bowl and Seattle, they weren't this yet. Like in mid-October, you're not this yet, right? No. Still learning each other. So they're all hitters, all levels. Unlike the Legion of Boom, as you know, which was built from the back front, although Bennett and April and the guys that were really good.

Nobody's saying, yeah, they only have defensive bag. Or Bobby Wagner, how's that going? Like, he was pretty good, right? He was dating. So this is built from the front. If you look at stat sheet in a lot of Seahawk games, this year, last year he had a bigger standout year stat-wise. But as you know, stats sometimes are skewed.

Yes. Oh, Leonard Williams. One tackle. He must not have done anything. Yeah, but he threw two people over his shoulder every place. So he made the tackle, right? So a lot of times you're going, he had one, he didn't have a sack.

Didn't have a sack. He had three guys on him. So that front, and they use six or seven. You know his father-in-law's. He's father-in-law's not. I know, I know. It's just, I only found that out within the last month. That brings the game to San Francisco.

There you go. Ernest Jones and middle linebackers are a really good player. Great ball player. Some of the guys whose names, here's a thing, I'm giving a long answer to it, but if you go even beginning of January, I'm not talking about beginning of October, beginning of January,

he has the average fan. Give me six Patriots and give me six Seahawks. Name them. Well, I can name the quarterbacks. Okay. Walker, the J.S.N. I've kind of heard of him. Well, I mean, he led the league in yards.

Defense, him and worry? Who? Guys are stud, by the way. Witherspoon, I heard. Patriots. Well, didn't they pay a lot of money for Milton Williams? I kind of remember him at the Super Bowl. He was good.

What's that booty guy? I mean, who we certainly know Stefan Thiggs and we know Hunter Henry, I guess. But who, we don't, you know. No. Right? That's the beauty of this game. You name me six on January 1st. If you're a football fan, not a fantasy where you know.

Well, you're not going to know the strong safety if you're a fantasy football player. Not the Cowboys. So, cowboys. Yeah. So in the end, Seattle's there because of their defense. Not that New England is not. You know, you allow, you know, New England's allowed no points in the playoffs, three to the Chargers and seven to the Broncos.

I mean, two of the three games, like, hello. Seattle allowed some points to the Rams, which I'm sure that in New England that Josh is looking at because whatever the Rams did, we got to do that because nobody else did anything, right? That's part of it. I think Donald and May will both play pretty good games. But does one not?

The chances are they both might not be the best in games. This is a big stage. You know. Huge stage. I picked 26-17 Seattle because I had to pick one like the end of the last week. I hadn't really thought of the score yet.

so now I'm stuck with it. I just think in all phases, although New England has a punt returner, dear to your heart, and Seattle certainly has a punt return. And New England has rookie kicker, young punter. Is he a rookie too?

I don't think so. He's first year. What's his name? Well, Borgal is the kicker, the punter. Seattle has veteran kicker, Myers, and maybe the best punter in football. Don't even look at all the stats of the Australian guy. Nixon. Why are we talking about partners?

Because if it's close. Field position and defense, that's what these teams are both so like. So he's really good. Just remember that when you watch. Again, I'm not telling you, but those are those stones like the Rams. That special teams problems? Well, in the end, you killed them, right? So I just think all levels, all three set, all levels of their defense,

they're going to be hard to score on, barring turnovers. Can New England get to 20? I don't know. Can Seattle get to 20? I think so. I don't know. I'm not right. I'm not wrong. New England wins. I will not be flabbergasted

because here's the one thing I know is about New England. In October. Even when they made a tackle, I think I said this, I watched the games with border jules. They made the tackle, but the three guys standing right there. Like their defense is never at a point. place. Braves and the staff. Core and, you know, the whole

staff. Oh, yeah. Seattle. They're rarely out of place. Very, very. I mean, both these teams, you don't see big plays. And they're so, but J.S. Nott Diggs is really good. J.S.N. He hasn't been covered yet. What do you see in him?

Because I, Sam Darnold told me, interview, probably running this week that I did when I went up to Seattle two weeks ago. He's got the best body language of a receiver. I've ever seen. I don't even know what that means from a quarter. Tell me what it means. Tom,

I mean, Tom broke it down in one of those games that he had with them that, you know, JSN does a great job of keeping his pad level the same by body language. Anytime he cuts in a zone or something, it's decisive and the quarterback always knows. Or, you know, when he gets on the toes of a defender when he's running a man route,

he doesn't drop his weight. Like his shoulders don't drop. that's how the defensive back breaks. When they see body language, they are the smartest people. When they figure anything's fishy, they're breaking. He does a great job of staying smooth and staying on the same plane so he could cut

and make everything look the same. That's what the quarterback means when they say he's got great body language. He's got good, you know, he always shows, that's what they're always showing. Interesting. It's the pad level, because a lot of the receivers, you get your toes over, you know, your knees,

and that's when you break down, and that's when the guys are breaking. He can just go and stop and cut, and you can't tell that's what they mean by great body language. Almost 8, 200 yards. Unreal. Unreal year. We'll be right back after this quick break. It was a quiet little bit in the postseason, had a big game last week when Sam had his big game. I mean, look, that's a good call.

When did you make, like, you've been in this whole picking game for as long as anyone. When did you make, like, do you feel uncomfortable that you made that pick with so much time left till the game? But you have to do it because this is, this is your, this is you. This is what you do. But like, what goes into making your pick, the research? or all that. And do you ever think that you change your pick from when you do it? Because you're talking about it maybe a week and a half before the game.

Do you ever feel like, man, I wish I would, I wish I would have put a little, a couple more points on that others. Like, why didn't I see that Philadelphia was going to be that monstrous on defense last year? But then again, I was only going to pick the chiefs anyway. But I got all the others right before, like exact spread, exact team winning. And we'll have the three before. Well, nobody bats a thousand. So I used to go to all the media days.

Now it's different, and I don't cover it that way. Sometimes I'd get a feel on a team. So I always had a blank slate, and I never made that pick till Friday of the Super Bowl. Like sometimes you feel a team tight, even though they put on a good front. Yeah, something I didn't like. And I was already, like, wondering. You couldn't be like, oh, they're going to win, and then, well, they're all. nervous.

Occasionally I'd get a gut feeling on something. Just so you know, no analytics for me, okay? They can help you do shirts. I'm learning a lot on the show, Popes, boom a linux. I just think

Seattle has less question marks than the Patriots, and I don't think, oh, I wish I knew that Diggs was going to catch 12 from Drake May, whose deep ball is unres. intermediate deep ball. Great.

How you lead the league in percentage and average yards in attempt does not happen. You know that. You know that. So it's like, one one. I just think they have less question marks to me going into the game.

By the way, then they kick it off and we'll see what happens. So you're going to make a pick, but you've got to pick the Patriots, however you do it. You don't have to? No, I wouldn't have to. I am picking the Patriots, though. I'll make my pick.

I think Patriots 24-20. Milton Williams Barmore in the middle of that pocket. When does Sam Darnold struggle when he has pressure in the middle of the pocket? I know, but that's like how you get to Sam. That's fair. Aaron Donald, well, who wasn't there Rams, but that type of player. That kind of, that type of player. Bill Williams, they paid him a boatload of money.

He's been doing a boatload of things in these playoffs. Christian Gonzalez, you know, you got a really good secondary guy. I can see them putting Davis on JSN and having help over the top, so you got a double there. And then you put Christian Gonzalez on Cooper Cup and say, you're going wherever he goes. So then you're taking their two best players out of the past game. If the Patriots can get the Seattle Seahawks to be in drop back past,

game, not off their play action, not off their run game. If they can make it a one-dimensional game, I think the Patriots have a shot. So I think, you know, Drake May has to have his best game of his career. He has to. I mean, that's what this game is. That's what this team needs. And I have confidence in Josh McDaniels having two weeks to prepare who's been in nine of these games. This will be his ninth game of calling plays in this game, which none of those coaches over there know how to do that. This is a different game. This is a rhythm. game. There's spurts of rhythm in this game. There's long timeouts. There's long half times. There's an energy abundance, like storage system that you need to learn, like learn and know

how to save. And play callers can do that with how they play call. I believe there will be a few trick plays. We haven't seen any trick plays from the Patriots. You know, bad weather. You don't want to call them in bad weather, right? Can't? You can't. You can't. So, you know, a big play in special team. The only reason I go Patriots is because I think the Patriots, Seattle can out tough you with their complimentary of what their team is. You know, you can't do that against the Rams. They've been struggling all year with special teams.

You knew something was going to, you knew that was going to be their way out. You could do that with a 49ers team. You can bully a team that probably shouldn't. have been in the playoffs because of the roster they have, but because of the great coaching of Kyle Shanahan and Sala this year, they overachieved. You know what I mean? So you could embarrass a team like that. I don't think you could do that with a Patriot team that has people that have been in this situation, that have had play callers in this situation, that have a team that everyone's been picking against. I think it's just all shaping into that 0-1 Patriot feeling,

where they were a 14-point spread. It was a 14-point dog, I think. Yep. One of the biggest of all time. And I just feel Drake's got to have that game and the Milton Williams Barmore in the middle of the pocket. I could see that. See, now that you're bringing that up,

well, I can easily see that. They're young guys in the middle. There's a rookie, although the Patriots are rookies on the line. The kid they drafted of North Dakota State is the first round pick, Zabel, but he's a rookie against those guys. I could see that happening. Very fair. And you got two rookies on the line for the Patriots.

The thing is why I trust Josh on how he's going to call the game. You're going to see a million screens to slow Lawrence and the boys down. You're going to see a bunch of reverses to get them to spread the field out, make them have to cover every square inch of the field. And then once that happens, you're going to see Ramon J Stevens. Remandre Stevens up those middles. And then everyone's going to have to come in. and you play action with Drake,

you have that thief or robber in the middle of field who usually is trying to take over those zones and stuff to stop the passes. Well, now they got to look at Drake May because if they don't, he's going to run 40. So I don't know. I think he hasn't played his best game, and I understand why the spread's the spread.

But I just have a feeling two weeks to prepare with Josh McDaniels. He's going to have his game of his life. Do you ever play football? because you seem to know something about it. A couple games. A couple games. It was quarterback in Kent State. You have to tell me.

Let's jump back in. Yeah, we better get to this game. That's the only reason we showed up. When the game took place, we go over some of the pop culture, and we talk about what was going on around life. This game took place January 10th, 1982. Number one movie, Sharky's, machine. You ever see that? I have not. You would

think I would. I'm looking at this now. This is interesting. We all know this number one song. Let's get physical by a Legia New John. Let's get physical. I loved We all did. It's my first crush, Greece. We all did. She was a babe. Raiders of the Lost Ark was in there.

Reds were in the boss. Were you a movie guy? Yeah, that's yeah. Ozzy Osbourne. bit off the bat. Oh, yeah, that did happen. In Des Moines, Iowa. I wasn't at that one, all right.

I didn't have upper deck seats at that one in Des Moines, okay? Oh, Ken Anderson was the MVP? All the Fame. We don't know yet. Niners Super Bowl. Heisman. Marcus Allen, Heisman. And drafted by the radio.

What was your Marcus Allen nickname? I don't know if I have one for him, but, you know, still one of the great Super Bowl. of all time against the Redskins. And then he comes back. Oh, God, put that game away. I mean, this is good. Hey, look, this was 81. Who did the Niners? They had a band.

Hold on. It's coming. He's coming. They ran about half-time. This is before they had halftime shows at championship games. Like a back of a flatbed. I could get this wrong because I didn't look this up to make sure I'm right. Hold on. It's coming. Roll it X.

I don't even know if you know the Bay Area Band. The tubes, did they play half-time? You don't even know who they were. They had a couple. I mean, wasn't Huey. No, Huey was at the game, of course.

Yeah, of course. But, um... What was life like for you in 82? You're 20... 26. You're 26 years old. I have no clue still. Not married yet, not parent yet, obviously.

And, um, really, SPN, we've only been in business. Well, let's see, fall of 79. Giants of Fos 2 and a half years. I'm on a five-day trip on the company's dying to San Francisco. Really? Oh, my God. We don't do this.

We're cable, man. You know, we don't. And I'm at the NFC championship. It's Dallas Cowboys? The 49 is my favorite city because I'm the San Francisco Giants, which will take another hour to go into, which we won't. You grew up in Connecticut. You liked the San Francisco Giants.

Have you heard of Willie Mays? All right. I've explained that. I was seven years old. He's my guy. still my, you know, he passed. I kept my team because that's what you did when you were seven, eight years old. Your baseball team, you used to keep them. So, even though they were 3,000 miles away. But what was life like? It was, all right, so let me tell you a story

of that drive. Back in the day, there weren't that many mini cam. They were actually heavier, bigger, this, that cameras on the field so we could go and shoot the second. can happen. I went down with my producer, Tom Riley, my cameraman Greg Wade. We shot half from up top and then half from down below. So now you're the Niners. They're on the 11 for something to go. Now we're shooting this. And it's like a dream. Like the Niners, they're down 27, 21. It's Rick and Randy White There's too tall Jones Is Harvey Martin or Tom Landry

The Drew Pearson Oh by the way Tony Dorset You've heard him Right And they're driving This unknown team Who had the best record in the NFC

All year Even though they were underdog Like even in the December in game Like they stink They stink Oh they won't They stink You know it's one of those

Now they're at the 25 With two Joe throws a pass to Freddie Solomon God rest of soul 88 college quarterback like you

Tampa you've received Tampa when they have football How about that? He was a beast He was a good player Before his time He threw it to Freddie Solomon

But I'm field level Like I'm right about even with it And I just see Three White Church Dallas I turn to my producer And I go Well I guess it's not gonna work

I see one guy up. Charlie Waters was one of them. I think it was the last game Charlie ever played one of the great, you know, safeties of all time. Another middle linebacker gets up, and Freddy's at the bottom at the 12 with the ball. I grabbed my producer, one of my best friends still to this day, Tom Riley. He says, I've never seen you like this, almost exorcism. I grabbed them by the shirt and I go, they're going in. I don't believe it. They're going in. And then, I think an incomplete pass, then the run to the five right at our feet, and then the catch, and the place exploded,

but it wasn't over. It wasn't over because Danny White completed a pass to Drew Pearson, and had they had the college tearaway jerseys of the day, Eric Wright would have ended up with, like, some fabric, but pulled them down, and the next play was a sack fumble, and then the place erupted. And then you'd see my stand-up, which you've seen eight million.

times. I have one shot to do it. I have to make the catch now because the play would be over. No, here they come. Here they come. We got 15 seconds. Three, two, one. Bababababababab. And then, you know, then we had one shot.

One for one. You've seen it. So that was my... One take, boom. That was my... Well, I had to be. Well, had you catch... I mean, I know. You caught a million. How did you make some of your catches?

Because I had to be. because it's coming right now and I can't drop this. We do drop it, but. So that's my memory of the drive after the game. Nine turnovers in this game. Nine. San Francisco made six. San Francisco made six turnovers.

Dallas made three. Joe was picked three times. Like it was, but lead changes six times. So here you go. Tom, now I'm a kid. I went to the Niner locker room. I was friendly with all of them. So I got everybody.

I talked to everybody. Dwight, Joe, Bill Wall, Sadi de Bartolo, Fred Dean. I mean, we can go on and on, on, around, around, Dallas. I got every Tom Landry. It's Tom Landry. First time every of them was the NFC championship game the year before.

The first one I ever covered and they lost at Philadelphia. I get every time, Render again. Not podium. I mean, ooh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Soundbike from Tom Landry, because I've seen the piece a lot of time since. Was this one of the best games you've ever been involved with?

I'm not saying, why didn't you punt? You know, it's not one of those. Tom Landry. No. But couldn't have a more exciting game. I mean, all the lead changes in this, like, this is Tom Landry after a devastating loss. Classy enough, with a 26-year-old guy that you might have,

we met once or twice, but he's not worried about Chris Berman. after the we lost on this. Well, I couldn't have more exciting game for football, but best game, no. And then, of course, not. What a classy answer. That's my Tom Landry's story.

I mean, that was, that was a different time. What if you ask Coach Belichick? Well, I can answer. I can answer that. Was this one of the best games you've ever seen? No. might have waited three seconds more hold it just one of the best game you ever seen let me give you the look

no and not looking away looking for the next question I'm looking at you like why would you ask we love Bill I mean we ought to say that you know that Bill and I yeah but you had to know what you were going into you know like as a football player we're not able to run up the middle

well then don't run up the middle okay Now, what do you remember about this specific Cowboys team? The aura still. The aura. But we talked about the history a little. The next year they were in the championship game at Washington at RFK. Yeah. And that was the end of them of the Landry Cowboys.

Not end, he coached for the decade, but 801, 82, they lost championship games. They were great. They could have won them. the mall. But we look back as the Niners, this, and West Coast Offenses, Dallas, twice champions, twice lost Epic Super Bowl to Pittsburgh, you know, not that long ago. It was the end of them coming.

And you didn't know it at the time either. So it was something beginning, something at the end. It just you didn't know. But look back and it was, that's why that game was, epic on both sides. 1,000 percent. I mean, can you just tell us how good Tony Dorset was?

Funny, Randy, Randy Moss, asked me the one year we worked together. I mean, we're still good, bugs and all, but he asked me and Tommy, you know, I don't, I don't really remember him, tell me about him. I've heard, but I never watched any,

you know, going to West Virginia. I mean, he's not glued to TV, like even some he ran light. Tony Dorset ran light. A ballerina. He wasn't even the pirouettes of Barry, but yes, he ran light. And we all seen that 99-yard run

where at the 20 where he had 80 yards ago was over, right? Like he could run, but he was not a track star, but he ran light like Emmett a little Emmett. For a guy that gained the most yards in history, and Tony is in the top. I don't remember them getting nailed a lot. You're running back. You're going to get nailed some, right?

I don't remember them getting nailed a lot. Emmett, for sure, you remember. But Tony... He was plugging. Tony, it wasn't 180-degree turns like Barry, but he just ran light. Is that fair? And Randy watched some film with him and go, boom,

you guys had it. You and Tommy went, look, I had to try to tackle him. You know, Tommy played for Denver. different than trying to tackle Earl Campbell. He was still going to look like this. But, but, Tony, Tony, D.R. said, man, light. And, of course, Harold and college player, Pitt.

He was, he was really good. Was too tall, too tall? He was 6'8. Wasn't he 6'8? 6.9, 6.8? Yeah, I mean, and legend goes, and I read it again preparing for this, because, you know, I don't remember everything.

Joe Pumpfaked on the catch to Dwight Clark. and Too Tall left his feet. By the way, so that made him like Will Chamberlain or Bill Red, or Shaq, right? And as he was coming down, then Joe, through the past, although he still really couldn't see, but Too Tall had come down. The pump fake, it might have been blocked.

We might not have this conversation. And, you know, the guy whose name we've omitted in all this, who became of all of those players, my best friend, like Clark from that team, who lost to. Yeah, lost to ALS. And he went up pretty high. He did.

Jackie, give us a breakdown on a quick breakdown on both these teams. Just a quick run through the Cowboys here, 12 and 4. Tom Landry, of course, coaching this team. As we alluded to earlier, coming off a championship round loss against Dick for Meals, Eagles the year before, five out of six seasons they won the NFC East, won eight of their last nine, Topton scoring offense, topped and scoring events, four Hall of Famers in that locker room, Tony Dors said, who we just talked about, Steve Wright, Randy White, Tom Landry, Danny White, under center.

You may remember him from the Memphis Southman of the World Football League. If you guys are World Football League fans out there. Good guy. Arizona State. Yep. This was a heck of a Cowboys team. And give us these Niners real quick. Run through the Niners real quick, 13 and 3. Coming off a year where they went 6 and 10.

The year before that, 2 and 14, third year of the Bill Walsh era. First winning season in five years. First playoff season in nine years. first year that Joe started all 16 games. You may remember the year before that, splitting with Steve DeBerg back there. This was really the season, the birth of the dynasty,

Ronnie Lott's rookie season, Joe Montana, Fred Dean, Bill Walsh. Ronnie Lott, all going to be Hall of Fingers. We'll be right back after this quick break. Notable. Who are their first three draft picks? Ronnie Lott won, right, two.

Was he two or three? Eric. And it was either two or three in the second round and then the third was Williamson. All defensive backs that came. Unheard of. Which you wouldn't draft three defensive ones. Well, not even that. I mean, it literally changed the whole defense.

Yes, he did. I read a story where Seifert and another coach, he was like, it was Seifert, these three rookies and another coach. And he like walked them through like, this is how you are a pro. Okay, we're going to get up. we're going to run you through the streets of, you know, Redwood City or wherever they were working at that time. Your hometown. My hometown. And then we're going to go do this. I'm going to show you how to watch film. But it just goes to show you that these San Francisco 49er teams, they always talked about with these unbelievable offenses.

But George Sefer and that defense with these three rookies may have propelled this team to what it needed to be, to be the dynasty. Un-talked about all of those teams that won, all those Niners teams, even the one in 94, which was a little bit different, but four in the 80s. And Bill McPherson was the defensive coordinator, George, there. Mike Holmgren, a couple of years in, not 81, wasn't there, but was a quarterback coach and became offensive coordinator with Seaford. Yes, but the defense, names that you wouldn't necessarily know,

but I told you before we went on, They were one of the first to do the six or seven men. It wasn't a clean rotation, but they'd play six or seven up front. Fresh guys. Yes, fresh. Even if they would play one fourth of the play. Well, are you taking him off the field? Yes, because we need this guy in the fourth quarter.

That was unheard of at the time. Seal Curtin. I will take Joe Greed out first year. Yeah, I don't think so. No. And maybe you wouldn't take him out, but you get my point, right? So they had a guy that knows, not on that. That team was a lot of unknowns.

A lot of unknowns. Dwayne Borton was a good player, went into coaching. I mean, I could go on and round, around, but they were not defensive. In retrospect, the 81 team, by 84, they had, they're 15 and 1. They had established more, a lot of those guys who just mentioned, but they had a few different. But that 81 team, there is some similarity to New England. Like, they had a couple pieces in retrospect who, you know, Jack Reynolds in the middle, Hacksaw, from the old ram but he wasn't the player that he was in the late 70s but he was a really good

player i don't know that new england has that but there is some similarity they said he was like the x's and those guys that would explain it to everyone they said that guy hacksaw Reynolds yes he was an absolute savant when it came to like football so he was like one of their almost like a green dot guy on the defense line, meaning like he was helping all these guys, hey, we're going to go here. That's what middle linebackers did. They really were quarterback. Yeah. Not to say that no, none of them are now. I mean, Jones calls the green dot guy for the Seahawks. But I mean, we, middle linebacker was you knew all of them in the 60s, 70s.

And so he was a 70s middle linebacker. Like, I mean, nobody with Dick Buckus or Ray Nitzke or names that you know and there are others that I could go back before. But, but you knew. the name, who's the middle linebacker of that team? Oh, the Colts said Mike Kurt. He's a good player. Oh, the Falcons said Tommy Nobos. No, he's really good. So they, that doesn't surprise me that he had to know because there wasn't

Yeah. If there were signals, they were rudimentary, right? Rudimentary. Now, how'd you get so close with like Dwight Clark and Joe Montana? That team. That age. I was that age. It's because this game dang near. Well, the first time I met them all in person was that game.

So my first four years at ESPN, I primarily did the 2.30 a.m. show. Okay? Yeah, well, it's 11.30 out here. But I'm in Connecticut, which in January is not the best drive home, okay? So, but I was the Swami, and I picked them like every week because I smelled it. I don't know why. They might have started one and two like, New England. I'd have to look that up.

I don't know. But we get out the Friday before a championship game. It's different than. Charlie Young was a veteran tight end. Randy Cross was middle of his career, but a sharp offensive guard, really good player. And the two of them, can I interview a few of guys

after practice Friday, which I didn't even know them was not much, but still? Charlie Young and Randy say to me, you're the Swami. You've been picking us every week. We'll line up whoever you want. These are the players. Who'd you line up?

All of them, like 11 of them. Dwight and Joe being two of them. Not knowing that that will, Joe is the quarterback. Dwight? Freddie was probably the more name receiver then, but you didn't know who they were. They're like 11 of them lined up. I mean, for four questions.

You've been picking it every week. we have time for you. I didn't do it so I could get interviews. It worked. Yeah. And okay. And by the way, the owner Eddie De Bartolo? Eddie D.

Like five or six years older than me. He owns a football team. 31, 32. And like, we're still, I could call them right now. I mean, we're still, but who's a 31-year-old owner? I mean, I'm not, Mr. Rooney, Mr. Hunt, Mr. Ralph Wilson. I mean, Mr. Mara. I mean, I knew all these guys at these owners meetings,

but this is my age, Eddie. I mean, almost. The players are my age, and they're an unknown. And I'm an unknown. And it worked. As I look back at it, I'm not smart enough to say, hey, maybe if they win, I'll be their guy. No, you don't do that.

It just works. So Dwight, as it turned out, his life went on. And Joe is very close. Ronnie, all those guys. I'm not doing this. They're my age. Or maybe I was two years older than them, you know? I mean, and it wasn't, oh, he's meaty, be careful.

Careful of what? Careful that I might spill my beer? Like, no, I'm not going to do that. What's your favorite Dwight Clark story? The sweetest, you know, from South Carolina, one of the sweetest people. His smile was to guys or ladies, and I'm not going off the rails here.

I mean, it's just, it was a sincere one. It wasn't, I'm going somewhere. None. Now, he went some places. He went a lot of places. Well, but, and I became very friendly with him and Joe and Huey Lewis. And so sometimes the four of us would hang out and that didn't stink. Rat Pack of the City?

But, well, where I wouldn't hear of it enough and, you know, we're different life. But Bay Area, I was an honorary Bay Area, and so Dwight and Mr. Do, I could go on and around about Dwight. A dear person. And Mr. DuBarlow's Hall of Fame when he went into the Canton, all the Niners, party and Huey sang,

I mean, it was pretty good. It was like Camelot once again. Dwight said I need to talk about something. So Mr. DeBarla went in on, I want to say 2016. I could be wrong, but I don't think it was 2050. I'd be 2016, I think. I think. So I need to talk to you about something in a minute.

Okay, that's fine. Not when are you coming out of you playing at Pebble? I'll see you then. You know, I see all those guys at Pebble. Not Joe so much, but Dwight and, and Huey, you know, and me we play at Pebble. I mean, I, you know, I shoot 88. I stink, but whatever. So I, whatever, but.

And he pulls me in the back room, he goes, we don't know yet. because I think it might have ALS. He said, what? We don't know. Some other tests. This is just some things. And he was fine. But that he would pull me aside.

I don't see. I don't live here. I need you to know that. I'm almost tearing when I say it because, you know, ALS say no more. I can see no more. So, and it was. They didn't know yet.

That was August. They had been having some serious tests in September. and we don't even know what that means what I can do or what this is that and in 2018 he was dead right I want to say 2018 so um no two years from when I might at a celebratory thing of those Niners so this isn't you asked me the question it's a good way to almost step out is we shouldn't take anything for granted right I hear the celebratory oh my God we're reunion to this and this and that and it's all great Maybe not. Maybe not. I can't not think of that without him pulling me into a side room. Like, I need to talk to you. So, I mean, I don't mean to get a bummer, but we miss him.

We miss him. We loved him. My wife Kelly is a good friend, and we can go on and around and I'm. He was always a very gratitude type guy for the play that is talked about a million times that we're about to jump into, which you already broke down. But you weren't watching this game. Can you break down San Francisco Candlestick in January? Can you just put that out there for the listener how cool this place was?

Because I never got to play there. I went to a million games there. I got to play in Santa Clara. Going to the stick, just paint that picture for me. Well, it was an old stadium. So there were warts, if you will. By any, you know, like if you really want to say, so was the Orange Bowl, although, oh, it's the Orange Bowl with the history.

So it was the old Mile High Stadium, like, ooh, but, I mean, if you really looked, RFK Stadium, I was there when the stands moved, when the Redskins were like, whoa, you know. But, oh, the game, the atmosphere. So Candlestick, you know, the weather was, like, worse for giant games in July than it were off in November for the 49. Yeah. People wouldn't know that. Yeah, it was windy, but then again, it's football.

It was windy. It was, the locker rooms were, you know, because it was baseball first. They weren't worried about football. It wasn't built for both jewels. It was at the time. I mean, they figured out how to move, and the screech on those stands must have been awful when they finally moved them. But, you know, it was built, and it opened in 1960. Yeah, okay, stadium.

And it's on the ocean. So there was some rust involved. Oh, yeah. Okay, but, and so the luxury boxes, if you will, which nobody cares about it in the fans, the owner's box was behind one of the goalposts because there just wasn't. So it wasn't, it was built with baseball, it was kind of, but there was the Niners home park, same like with Willie Mays's home park, but I was at the last game there too, by the way, in 2013.

It was great. And it was not raw like. northeast. But for West Coast, this was football. And so I think that's why the Niners were never, yeah, West Coast offensive. No, no, no. We talked about their defense and how tough a lot of these players were, you know, and how tough-minded they were. It wasn't just some, hey, we're scoring a lot of points. It was San Francisco. I'm not knocking L.A. or San Diego. I love the places, but especially San Diego, who should, but whatever. But it was football.

And they tow to toad with the New York Giants. And they'd come out and play, you know, in December. And it seemed like it wasn't the West Coast, but it was the West Coast. Does that make sense? It's kind of both. Well, I always, it's the only big city feel you really feel on the West Coast is in San Francisco. You don't feel it really in L.A. because it's so spread out.

And, you know, I just, I always have vivid memories of just seeing all the crazy people in the stands because San Francisco fans were always nuts. You see the guys with the long, wavy hair, overalls, all the gold jackets that everyone used to wear. And everyone was, like, partying. It was just, it was just a cool feel. You got to actually live it in probably the biggest game it ever had at that point. It was. I mean, I don't know that all of Hayden Ashbury was there, but a lot of it was.

But I don't know if there was a wine-drinking crowd at that point. It was, there was northeast or Midwest toughness with West Coast sensibility. And I've always felt that about going a candle-thinking. Something about it. As an aside, because we, good luck editing this freaking podcast. Dwight memory that I should say. say, and I hope you can find it. I have it on my phone somewhere, but

the last game of candlestick, which was Monday night, which ESPN did so I could go. Sunday, I couldn't. Dwight came out, and he and I, I started Joe, you know, two hours before the game, hour and a half, we redid the catch. Like, you know, a million times.

But, okay, okay, so Dwight. I think I remember this. Take me through it. And I rolled, right, you know, like, I mean, I didn't pump fake too tall. Jones, but he goes, typical Dwight, he goes, and he played right along. He said, wow, we're going to relive it. Oh, I'd love to do it for you.

He has piano, audience, boomer, you, the swarm, you were with us, but-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. He goes, who's going to be the quarterback for this? I said, me, he goes, all right, we'll go with it. You know, like, I have it. I can't, you should, this needs to see the light of day again. But we rolled right, and I didn't, I actually threw it, okay. jump his, but it wasn't like at his belt, you know what I mean? It was up there.

Swami got it up. And he did it, and he spiked it. A cool, a cool, effortless spike, too. It was, it was, it was the same thing. And he was having a good time doing it with a smile on his face. He'd probably, not that necessarily, but a million time. Yeah. That was before the last game of Candlethick, they beat the Falcons.

On a defensive touchdown, Navarro Bowman. Navar Bowman. Baller. Sweet guy. I mean, we laughed. I can hear his laugh. Yeah. You know? He and he and Joe were tight off on, you know,

it's the same experiences you've had with some of your, you know, Tom and your teammates. And you've been through the wars and not all of them did you win, but you. Win them together. Yeah. You went through them together. Yep. And that's what it is. A lot to be said for that.

And it's really cool that we're here at Super Bowl. 60, you know, getting to celebrate a guy like Dwight Clark who meant so much to this league. And, you know, the San Francisco 49ers to this point weren't the San Francisco 49ers being a pillar organization that they are for this league's growth. And, you know, that's another reminder of why this game is so amazing. Because you get to learn about cool, genuine people like Dwight Clark, goofy guys like Joe Montana, who gives me grong vibes. There's just so many.

That's, ooh. He kind of does. Think about that. I'm going to see Joe tonight. But he, if you, I'm saying out of like, I get it. I feel like whenever I see. Wow, I never would have put those two in the same sentence.

I wouldn't either, but like, I just did. Because you can. I feel like it's a genuineness of joy. Like when you, when you see Rob or whenever I see, I've met Joe a few times, but he just has like a,

a coolness about him? Well, he's just... Joe cool. Joe cool. I mean, he... You know, we're doing a thing with the 89-9ers tonight, six of them. I told you, I mean, Ronnie and Joe

and Tom Ratman and Harris and John Taylor. Right, and we're doing that in the theater tonight, so I'm going to see all those... That's going to be amazing. Again, it was... You doing this with me today and us doing this on stage

with 2,000 people tonight, you've taken me back to my 20s and my early 30s. Heck yeah. Thank you. No problem. I mean, I'm 70 now, so I appreciate those days. We appreciate you.

I mean, you're another reason this whole industry even is in place. You know, the landscape of what media, sports media has become was, you know, a lot of the podcast space came off of your shows of that you produced and you wrote and that you were a part of a lot of the mock You know, the knockoffs with like PMT and all these ways to digest football.

Everyone wanted to be around a guy like you, and that's what people are drawn to to watch sport, you know. So Jack, put a button on this. Let's grade the game. Boom's got to get out and talk about the 89 Super Bowl. Amen. 28, 27, the Niners win this thing. They would go on to Super Bowl 16, take down the Cincinnati Bengals, 26 to 20.

and just to give it a little bit of shine before we move on. This game, Boom was there, of course, legendary broadcaster game. You had Vern Lundquist there calling it for Dallas Radio. You had Pat Summerall, Vin Scully, Jack Buck, Hank Stram. I mean, this was what a game. Chris Burma, of course, this was awesome, and this would spark a dynasty, of course, with the Niners. And it would also spawn two sequels.

We love sequels around here. The catch two and the catch three. But like all sequels, first one's the best. Terrell Owens to beat the Packers. First time in the division around in years. I remember being a kid like we play them, we lose it all every time.

He dropped a bunch of balls that game. It's how Steve even got to throw off. I mean, the whole thing was a man. The catch three was Alex Smith and Vernon Davis against the Saints who were Super Bowl champs and the Packers who Steve beat with the defending NFC

champs that year. I think you know, so it was yeah, three catches, but so many. He's made a couple too. But we didn't even get to that. I'm one thing we didn't even get to, which we won't. I know. Let's name the game.

It's supposed to meet a guy for lunch at one, he'll wait. Score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Desmows encouraged. The name of this game is the catch game. Stakes, Schwamp, zero to ten stakes of this game.

NFSI championship. Okay, meaning stakes for what Okay. For all. The UFC championship game, you know, I don't know, no. Especially in retrospect, stakes were as high. Do I give it a one to, what do we do? One to ten, ten being the highest,

decimals encouraged. Well, stakes as life as we've just experienced ten, as it turned out. You didn't know then that it was ten because the Niners could have won or lost and we might never have heard of them again. So at the time, but what we know now, 10. Ten.

Amazing. For me, it's a 9-5. That's fair. We've done, I've done 200 of these shows. We've done, you know, World Cups where, you know, women's taking their shirt off, Cold War game with a miracle on ice. I mean, those, there's. Wow.

9-7. We're all in, we're all in the same. Oh, I thought I had to give a full number. Star power. The Russian judge in figures games. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right, I'll give it a 9-8. Is that what you want?

You're in. You're in. You're already in for a 10. I'm trying to end it for a 10. We can't undo it. Star Power. You got 98? No, no, no. Star Power. Star Power. The Niners, we didn't... We didn't know them, really. You really didn't know them. It's hard to say if we're judging an 81 or even 82, we're judging now, right? Now? It was the beginning of the legend of Joe Montana. I mean, Star Power. Dallas had a lot of those guys. A lot of Hall of Fameers. Tom Landry.

Bill Walsh. Star Power. You had Bill Wals. Tom Landry. 9-2. 9-2. I'm going to go with, for me, it's got to be a 9 flat, 9-6. No, look, Bill Walsh versus Tom Landry.

Okay, that's a good start. Gameplay of the game. Well, that's a 10. 9 turnovers. Oh, gameplay, not the one, not the catch of me. No, gameplay of the whole game. Oh, Tom Landry. Well, one of the most exciting games ever. So game play, although there were great plays made.

Some sloppy football. Oh, God, nine turnovers. It's hard. And it wasn't a downpour. It was dank, but it wasn't wet. It was candlestick. Candlestick. Dank is a good word for candles.

Very good word. So game play, because of the turnovers, although clutch is clutch. I mean, so. 7-5? I don't know. Is that low? I think it's like an 8-4.

Yeah, 7-5's low. Nine turnover shouldn't out overshadow. Let's go an 8-1. It's going 8-1. Is that fair? And I'll give you my- Because I don't do this. You guys live this.

I'll give you my take on it, though. I think it's an 8-4. Yeah, there was a lot of turnovers, but there was a lot of lead changes. And what people don't realize. Yes, that's true. I mean, people don't realize. We didn't get to go into it,

but. Cowboys almost came back and won after the fact. They needed the sack fumble, which that's an exciting. Yeah, I don't do this. Yeah, I mean, 8-1 is as low as I can go. Yeah, only nine turnover shouldn't shake because I have to remind myself it was sloppy. I don't remember it. I don't remember it as, because a lot of them, they fumbled, but then they got it right back.

So it wasn't, they fumbled on that was a touchdown. So a lot of them were no harm, no foul, although there were. fumbles or picks. 1,000%. Last, we grade the name of the game. The catch. You're done. I mean, that's 10. 10. I'm going to give it a

9-1 again. I mean, we're, this, how long, how long ago is this? 45, what is it? 45 years is the most expensive NFL films clip, the catch. The most expensive and NFL films clip. What do you mean? To rent?

Yeah, to use it, to license it. Yeah, but we shot it. It was a different angle. We didn't, but we were from the five, the other We run ours. You went 10, Jack? I went 10. I have a 9.9.

This is a high. This is a 9. Where is it on the score of games we've done? So this is going to be our new fourth overall. Wow. It's just behind the Malcolm Butler game. These are all the games.

Not any game, period. No, these are all. I didn't know you're non-football. Just behind the Malcolm Butler game and just ahead of the 2001 Stanley Cup Game 7 with Ray Borg. This one's for Ray. Wow.

283 Super Bowl. Well, I kind of remember that. You, Jules? Yeah. I just want to let you know that I had the lowest. Patriots Chiefs. I mean... No, no, I believe it.

I know them all. Who's Josh McDaniel last night said that was his favorite game? Okay, so how about... I want to see if you've done it, because this is just fun. I don't want to take too much time. And we've got low ones too here. You got, well, you got ones that were a long time ago that... Like for football games in the last...

We did the immaculate reception. with Terry. The fact that that's 25 was a little bit. That's not. That's not pretty good. That was a fun game. Well, they didn't win the Super Bowl a year. No. People think they did. They did not. But it was the kickoff like you said. It was the kickoff like you said earlier in this episode. That's what sparked them. That was a rookie class too for the Steelers on that defense. Insane. Well, Jack Lambers. They, they're like 10 Hall of Famers on Pittsburgh side in that game. And by the way, we could go on and on about Raiders. Probably 15 or 16. all the members in that game.

Yeah, it's pretty. They wouldn't have trouble getting in. No. So, um, and that, that's our list, you know, of the last, of the last Josh Allen division game. 13 seconds. We did that, did it? Yeah, but there were four scores in the last two minutes.

Yeah, we're waiting to do that game with, we want those guys. We want Josh for that. Ooh. Yeah, Josh for that. The only other non, another one you have to go way back and it would be look it up, though, the Kellyn Winslow overtime San Diego, Miami was a joke. Like that goes way back. A joke.

24 to nothing. And then all of a sudden we're in overtime. Hook and ladder to look that game. Who would be the perfect guest to... Kellyn Winslow. Caught 13, blocked the winning field goal. I mean, they had to carry him off the field exhaustion, came back six minutes later. I mean, Orange Bowl, almost the end of the first.

over time. So heat, the next game they had to play in fucking minus 69 at Cincinnati. No wonder they lost. How could they not Dan Fouts? Don't your eyes like They're up 24? Look up that game. The division. You don't have to look it up. For you. I mean, that's a long time. Or

Dan Fouts, who you know a broadcaster. He would be He would. Do you know him at all? We've met for. He's a broadcasting. He got it. He kills it. That he, he, I mean, I'm just thinking great, you know, okay, the Giants game, the 18 and 9 tenths and O.

We did that. Wait, 18 and 1? Yeah, right. I go to 18 and 9 tenths in O and 1. Yeah. We did that with Bruce, we had Bruce and Eli at the same time to do that game. How was that? That was fun. I mean, it was the first time Brucey ever came on to talk about it. about the loss. So it was cool to, that's what we originally wanted the show to be, have a guy on both sides. We then found out it's so hard. It's hard.

Even though it's a lot, well, it's recent enough. Yeah. And we killed Zoom too. Those were Zoom interviews. That was, oh my God. That was a great game. Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, but, you know, it was great, Tom. It was great.

In Media Day, someone said, well, what was the final in that? 1714? 1410? What the hell was the final election? How do I not know that? We try to... No, no. What was it?

1714? 1714, I thought. Is that what it was? Plexiglass? Yeah, 1714. Blade zero. So Tom... Tom...

Was it a smile? It was one of those meaty-day question. Back then was, you know, remember what it was. Now they made it fucking colligula. It's awful. I hate it now. You guys used to be in the stadium

on Tuesday in your uniform. I got all my interviews then. You guys. look good, the stadium is nice. Now it's a thing. It's a fucking colligular. Went yesterday. It was hell out earth. Tom. Yeah, terrible. Tom went, you're going to hold us, you know, supposedly you only get 14 points or something.

They're going to hold us. He didn't, he wasn't antagonist. No. They're going to hold us the 14 points, huh? Okay. If I were Tom, I'd say the same thing. Unfortunately, every now, you know, I mean, whatever. All right, we, hell, this lunch, I can't even call the guy. boom huh but he doesn't know I got to wait for me at 1 o'clock

boom thanks so much hey jules we could we could go on for hours we didn't even get to boss was strong we'll be right back after this quick break ma'am didn't

didn't get to ask him half the things I wanted to ask him we need part two and three you need 15 hours yes boom when my hero's growing like you said jules everybody that's talking sports now is just paying an homage to Chris Berman and adding fun into it

and talking like you talk at the bar and your personality and fun sound binds whoop, man. That was so cool guys. I can't be like... Can you imagine hanging out with Joe Montani, Huey Lewis and frigging Dwight Clark. Bro. Because he's their age.

He just casually dropped that. He was like probably a young cool kid from ESPN like Jackson's Rick May. That's right brother. Just running the town. Like you said, the San Francisco Rat Pack. Yeah, San Francisco Rat Pack, bro. Screw the news, bro. We don't even need the news.

Man, just you and the boys. What a game. And thanks again. That was awesome. To Chris Berman for giving us some time. That was a fun episode. That was a bucket list episode. And that's been another episode of games with names.

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