Dumb Blonde - Brothers Osborne: Unapologetically Unique

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Bunnie welcomes musical duo Brothers Osborne, TJ and John, the brothers who’ve rocked country music, redefined what it means to be family, and shown that being different might be your biggest superpower. They get into growing up in a blue collar Maryland town, TJ’s experience coming out and the meaning behind their Grammy win for “Younger Me,” John and Lucie’s IVF journey, and how therapy helped them both through some of their hardest years. They also talk about never fitting the country music mold, how staying close as brothers kept them grounded in the music biz, and what’s coming next, including the single "Finish This Drink" and a new album that brings them back to where it all started.Brothers Osborne: Website Watch Full Episodes & More:www.dumbblondeunrated.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Is this thing on? What's up babies? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today I have the boys on the couch, Brothers Osborne, the brothers who have rocked country music, redefined brotherhood, and proved that being different might just be your greatest hit. Welcome boys.

I love that. Thank you. Thank you, I worked hard on that. That made me feel good. Good. I love you guys, my husband loves you guys. Well we love you guys. Honestly, I feel like, I mean, you know,

his career is just like taken off to the stratosphere, but in such short period of time. But I love that I've gotten to know you guys. Just a little bit before that happened, you guys haven't changed at all. That's awesome. We appreciate you guys. And I have always been obsessed with you

because of how you dress. It's so cowboy couture. And I'm just like, it's so like tailored and just perfect. Every time I see you, I'm like, this outfit is fucking amazing. Thank you. That means a lot coming just perfect. Every time I see you, I'm like, this outfit is fucking amazing. Thank you. That means a lot coming from you. Well, I mean, where does the style,

the sense of style come from? Like, is it something that you obsess about? I think it's multiple things. One, it's probably the fact that I'm a gay man. A gay man in there somewhere. It certainly doesn't hurt. Right. And then, you know, we have stylists

that help with this stuff. And of course, Abby is very stylish. So that's always at the last, every time, even I got dressed for the awards, I'm like, this jacket, this jacket. Yeah, no, it's always, it's amazing. Top tier always. Even when I was a kid, I kind of loved wearing, oddly,

I mean, before I even had any clue what my sexuality was, when I look back now, I'm like, oh my God, you were so gay. Like I would wear like stripe shirt, like a TGI Fridays red and white stripe shirt with like a bow tie when I was like eight. That's hot though. It's his choice. I love that.

I would show up like at my hair.com, super neat. Yeah. It's kind of like, have you seen Right to Chimstones? Of course, I just watched the finale last night. Exactly, okay, so the latest season when there's the, what's this character? He's the little boy. Yes, yes, yes.

That was basically me as a kid. No, I think that's phenomenal because fashion, I love fashion. So even as a kid, like I wore a plaids, a red plaid skirt and an I rode the bullet ghillies t-shirt all the time and you couldn't tell me any different. But even when I think back to it now, like I wear like band tees and like plaid skirts still.

And it's like, it's sometimes it's something you're, you're just born with too. I know. Isn't that weird? Like John's kids, you know, he's got, um, twins, and to watch just one, just be a boy and the girl, you know, she just naturally like, she couldn't even speak yet. And she showed up. I don't know if it was to Christmas or something or Thanksgiving. And she has this, she's a year and a half and she's up, I don't know if it was to Christmas or something, or Thanksgiving, and she has this, she's a year and a half, and she's like, check out, check this out.

She's like, this dress. She's trying to see it, she does like a turn, and she's looking at it. She's like, ah, like check this bad ass thing out. She's got Uncle TJ's fashion sense. Yeah. I love that. My son's just covered in dirt and his own gunk,

he's got my fashion sense. Oh boy. Yeah. I love that. So you said you had a story to tell me that I was- Yeah, so this is probably a year and a half ago. This is on the record. This is on the record.

It's on the record, baby. This was a year ago, a year and a half ago. It was not long after we had kids and my wife gets hit up from her management. She's an artist as well, an amazing singer songwriter. And then yeah, you got asked to do your podcast. Right. And she was like, okay, yeah, I'm not sure why

I don't really have any music out, but you know, we've talked about like fertility stuff and kids and she was like, maybe she wants to, maybe go into that or whatever. Turned out it was a scam. Oh no. Yes, and it was basically someone said, well, you have to sign on, but you have to give us

like log into your computer so we can access it from afar. And Lucy signed on and then got kind of freaked out and was like, this doesn't seem right. And then closed the tab. Fortunately, they didn't like go in and get all of our information, but they were seconds away from it.

And she thought she was doing your podcast. Isn't that sad? I told you it was a little bit tragic. I know. I hate that. People, the you it was a little bit tragic. I know. I hate that. But people, the scam shit is just getting so out of control. It is. But that's so specific to not only like,

I get if you're like, if you're sitting like, you know, I'm a prince from Africa and you sit down, 10 million. Remember the Nigerian scams that were he could, yeah. But this is so, this is so specific, targeted at people where they would go, they probably know that we know you guys, at least to some degree. Yeah, and I was kind of, I know, I was a little pissed,

but also kind of impressed about the move, the scam. No, the way that they can even access people is just kind of, it's really scary. I know, someone was actually texting her mom pretending to be me, but the thing, I was in the room with my mom, she's like, is that you? And I'm like, what me? He be me, but the thing I was in the room with my mom, she's like, is that you? And I'm like, what me?

He's like, are you texting me? I'm like, why would I text you? You're right next to me. Why does it old people always fall for it? I know, well that's like, that's the saddest part. They're often victims of that stuff, which honestly, I feel like I'm pretty savvy and there's still all the time I'm like, is this UPS?

Yeah. Well Lucy was really obsessed. She was like, I feel like such an idiot. But I'm like, look, but it came through your management. It wasn't like she got an email somewhere from a sketchy ass website. But I get emails from John all the time. It's like, check out these pictures.

And I'm like, my brother would never send me a picture. He doesn't open any of my dick pics. What the hell? Look at these pictures. I'm like. Somebody would be trying to get ahold of those. What are my dick pics? Yeah, there's ahold of those.

There really was him the whole time. Well, tell Lucy that I'm so sorry and that we will have to revisit that for sure. Now that I know that she's even willing to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'll tell her that it'll make her, it'll make her, and I actually wanted to talk about you guys as IVF journey too, um, on the podcast, which we'll get into it later. I want to kind of paint a picture for my viewers at home who don't know you guys, kind of like your rise to fame. So if we could start where you guys grew up and go from there,

tell me a little bit about your childhood and what inspired you guys. Yeah, well, I mean, it's an interesting thing because for those who don't know, we're East Coast boys. We grew up in a little tiny water community called Deal Maryland. Um, and to a lot of people that do know that they're always so surprised to hear that they're like, how do you get into country music being from there? And we shot our music video for a song, uh, for one of our first singles called Rum in our hometown to kind of give people a

bit of a look-see into where we grew up. Cause it makes total sense when you see it. Um, and on the new music that we're working on, we've kind of are going back to visiting that again, where we're having a lot of, we'll go back and short shoot videos and stuff back there in the hometown. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's a very blue collar town. It's paradise. I mean, we grew up on the Chesapeake Bay.

How beautiful was that? It was so beautiful and an amazing place to grow up. But, you know, a lot of places like that tend to be, you know, like really fancy. It was not, I mean, it was really blue collar. Right. And so growing up around there, it was usually like, you know, people were mostly they're listening to rock

or they're listening to country, which is pretty, I think for us to kind of have the blend of both, I think makes total sense. Yeah. Um, and then, or both of our parents, uh, really tried their, their hand in music or dad saying I wrote songs and so did our mom. But then they had five kids and very little money. You know, our mom's a hairdresser, dad's a plumber and, um, so you guys are two of five.

That's right, yeah. Okay, I never, I didn't even, that didn't even come up on Google. So where are the other three at? So our oldest brother Jimbo's in, lives in Delaware. Jimbo. Jimbo. We love Jimbo. Exactly, it's one step down from Jim Bob,

but we got Jimbo. And then we got Rachel, she's in Florida. And then our sister Natalie works here in Nashville. She's in the music business as well. I think you may or may not have met her. Are they super supportive of you guys being in the music industry? Extremely, extremely so.

And so, but I think for us, it was really kind of started as like our parents dream. We just kind of grew up around music all the time. We didn't really know any different. And then, you know, just kind of playing local bars and stuff. In fact, this tattoo, a lot of people want to know what's it about.

It's the first band that me and John and our dad was in called Deuce and a Quarter after our car. That's a great name. I know it is. That's actually a really good name. And so we did that and then slowly but surely we're like, okay, we need either do this full time or not. And we were definitely like, you know, the, at that time, a big fish in a small pond. And,

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fees see mint mobile for details so I had read somewhere that you guys had started off on like separate journeys, like separate bands. Yeah. Have you guys always done? Yeah. So I mean, yeah, we played a lot as kids and we're always playing on bands together playing with our dad. And then I moved here in 2000 to go to college, met a bunch of different musicians and I ended up in a separate band with some other great musicians or friends of mine. Charlie Worsham. I don't know if you ever done anything

with Charlie or I'm sure Jelly might know Charlie. I think he does. Yeah, but a great session musician in town, this guy Josh Matheny who plays Dobro and a bunch of other really great musicians. And we had a band, it was called King Billy. It didn't really kind of pan out the way we wanted, but it was a great learning experience.

Traveled all over the country in a van, way too many hours, way too many hours sleeping on a bench seat in a van, way too many hours, way too many hours sleeping on a bench seat in a van, but it was totally worth it. In your early 20s you can get away with that. And he was writing for the same publishing company at the same time, so he was still in town. We had written a few songs together for the band and when that band broke up, he was doing his own project, so we were joining together, joining forces, writing a lot together, playing shows. And people kept going, man, it's so cool

that you and TJ are finally in a band. We're like, well, no, we're not doing a band. We're just writing together and I'm playing guitar for them. People kept showing up, showing up. And it just started to gain a lot of interest and it was not our intention at all. Everyone was like, yeah, let's go, oh, the brothers are playing tonight.

And eventually we had to just go, is this like official? What we had to do was go, okay, our mom was right. Mom knows best. She didn't want it the whole time. We were like, no mom, we know what we're doing. She was like, finally I got a duo. Natalie popped out. She was like, I got a trio. So she's still waiting on that one. And yeah, and then everything kind of took off after that.

It just seemed like we followed the natural course of things. It was like the universe was almost like, it was a divine, something was making it happen. And then we listened to it and then the rest was history. I love that. So have you guys always had a super close relationship even growing up? Yeah, we have.

I mean, it's about as close to like twins as you would get without actually being twins. We just did everything together. What's the age difference? Two and a half. Over two years. But there's, we slept in bunk beds our whole lives, shared a bedroom together.

Still do on the bus. And now we joke as we do. We've grown up and have, you know, live in separate houses, but we sleep half the year with each other on a bus and bunk beds again. So we haven't gotten that far. Where does the rock influence come from? Cause you guys, for being country, you guys have a pretty rocker sound.

Also a lot to do with where we grew up. Like I grew up listening. Cause I grew up, guitar became my favorite thing in the world. When I was like 12, Who taught you the guitar? My dad, our dad taught me some chords. My cousin Johnny taught me how to solo or my uncle Bill taught me a little bit. It was a bit of everyone. They wouldn't let me sit down with the family

and sit around the table unless I would practice. And I was good enough to hold my own. So if there's a, if you want to get me to do anything, just tell me that I can't and I won't fucking do it. So I would just sit in the other room, practicing, practicing, practicing. You can't paint I won't fucking do it. So I would just sit in the other room, practicing, practicing, practicing. You can't paint my house. Yeah, yeah, damn it.

And yeah, I do a lot of things out of spite mostly, but anyway, so I did that, but I was obsessed with like guitar and rock music is just like go hand in hand. And we grew up listening to the country. I rebelled against that a bit because it was like what our whole family listened to and my early teenage years, I was like,

love Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots. That was an iconic time. It was such an era. My first concert was Stone Temple Pilots. Oh my God, I fucking love Stone Temple Pilots. I don't think there's ever, there hasn't really been anything quite like it since. Ever. That was just a complete change.

Why do you think that is that we can't recapture that sound? Because- Because now you have to be on TikTok to be famous. Well, I also think too, because back then there was a, there was a lot of counterculture going on, like the eighties produced, obviously some great pop rock music that we all know and love, but there was this counter revolution to that where it became these bands out of

like California all the way, which is where STP is from, all the way up to like where Pearl Jam and Nirvana all the way up on the far west coast. And they wanted to be the anti of that so it became less about the spandex and the big loud pop songs and it became about like the grit and the grunge. And I feel like things have kind of become so, for lack of a better word, a lot more pop in the rock world. And it never has really cured itself again of that to get back to where it once was. But it was a really pure year.

I mean, every band was so unique. I mean, you definitely see that happen a little in country music now for sure. You see it now in country more than ever. Things got super, super polished and slick and now people are really appreciating things that are raw and real. And like your husband, for instance,

someone that is just themselves. Yeah, unique. It's like being unique should be rewarded. Yes, absolutely. And it finally is, I think, in country music. Everyone's wanting each artist to be really special in themselves. And I think that's great.

That's when music's at its healthiest. I feel like you guys are kind of the trailblazers for being unique, because you know. Maybe, yeah, I don't know. No, I definitely feel like that guys are kind of the trailblazers for being unique because maybe, yeah, I don't know. I know. I definitely feel like that because you know, you guys came in on the scene and you guys were just, did you, okay. So you guys came in on the scene and you guys were like, you know, pretty like rock country and like you guys were still finding your sound. Did you feel like whenever you guys came on the scene that you guys had to kind of

tone it down a little bit whenever you came into country? No, I mean, it's weird. I mean, I guess, you know, if you were to circle all the way back to just like, whenever you guys came on the scene that you guys had to kind of tone it down a little bit whenever you came into country? No, I mean, it's weird. I mean, I guess, you know, if you were to circle all the way back to just like, again, being from Maryland, I feel like we just always have kind of been in this space of like Maryland. It's not really the north. It's not really the south.

Like, you know, it's just what is it? No one seems to really claim it. And so, you know, I feel like it was kind of that way with us musically. I mean, we grew up there. I didn't really honestly know what genres were for a really long time in my life. I just knew the music I liked and I didn't like, um, and predominantly what I was influenced by and what inspired me were, were, were, were, was country music and rock, like strictly classic stuff.

And so, um, you know, as we came down here, we just started doing our own thing, but I felt like for the longest time, like I, you know, as we came down here, we just started doing our own thing. But I felt like for the longest time, like I was getting hired in town before we met up as a demo singer. And then people stopped hiring me because they were like, oh, you don't sound like anybody else. Like, you don't, we're trying to pitch this song to Blake Shelton and you don't sound like him.

So, and then I was really irritated with myself, honestly. I felt like, God, I don't have the chops to be able to make money as a demo singer to pitch songs to people. And then it's something, at some point in time, kind of flipped in me. And I realized, well, I'm just going to start singing my own music.

And then it started, there was a moment even still, once we had a record deal and we're out working our music out at radio, there was a lot of times because we sounded unfamiliar, our songs wouldn't test. And so then again, we were kind of in the same boat of like, well, we like you guys, but we didn't sound like all the people that were hitting really hard and familiar like Luke Bryan's and all these people. And so, but again, it was like, do we want to follow kind of what everyone's doing and already winning with?

You know, our manager, you know, was like, you know, it's like the best, if you're not first, the best you can be is second. And so we really were like, you know, we just really focused on what it is we're doing. And I think, you know, I've been thinking a lot about this recently because there's like so much like turmoil and like what country music is that that's not country. This is country,

or that's cool. This isn't cool. And it's annoying to me for the main reason of it's not what music is for. Like it's just, it's not what it's about. And it's almost had been a great reminder for me to be like, man, people want to just listen to music to like party or if they want to cry or if they just want to feel nostalgic, you know, or whatever. No one's thinking, man, I'm going to listen to this because this is going to make me cool as shit or I'm going to listen

to this because now I'm a country person now. It's like, it's just totally not important. And so I feel like for us, it was like focusing on what, you know, what is it that we like and our fans like and finding those people. And it's taken us a really, really, really long time to do it. And God, I felt like we just have been passed so many times by other new artists. And we've just been kind of in our lane, just doing our thing.

I feel like slow and steady wins the race though. Yeah. Well, I don't know if we, you know, we certainly, you know, aren't the biggest artists that it's ever happened in this business, but we're still here and we've been doing it for a while. And I don't foresee us going away anytime soon. And I really attribute that to going out and making real fans that did like what we were doing because it was different. And so, yeah, that's still,

that's still kind of our mantra and our goal and our inspiration with all of it. Absolutely. I think that's exactly what you have to do, because like I just said, Sloan Sette wins the race, because you're building that core fan base of diehards who really ride with you. And that's so much more special than these people who kind of like make it overnight,

because their fans don't really know them. Exactly. So whereas your fans just consume everything and love you guys for the people that you are as well as your music. Totally. And you feel a sense of being loyal back to them. Because you were here the whole time.

Like, I don't want to switch this up when you were in the Lemeth Hour. Right. You know, there's just any person I don't want to let down. It's the fan that started with us from the bottom who finally, once we started having success, was able to be like, I told you, these were my guys. And there's a sense of pride there.

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2025 at 1159 p.m. Eastern time so let's take it back. I Read something somewhere that you tried out for American Idol I did not I did not although my mom out for American Idol? Uh, I did not. I did not. Although my mom, uh, really still thinks to this day that had, I did try out for American Idol, but I would have made it. And my career would have been a lot faster and bigger and sort of a lot

higher than I have full of opinions. And that's crazy that it says, it says TJ was once rejected from American Idol that he tried out in his early twenties and didn't make it past the first round. People just make it up. That's not wrong. I didn't make it past the first round. I never, he's like, it's kind of true. No, I, you know, the thing is it's funny because like, I don't, I wouldn't have the, I don't think I would have the muster for that. Like, you know, I feel like there was so critical too. And now, you know, the thing is too,

I feel like, you know, there was, used to be like an era where it was like, God, people would look kind of down on people to make it on like the fastware American Idol or, Oh, they're got famous on YouTube. It used to be, and then it was Snapchat and now it's Tik TOK. And I'm like, you know what? Like if you can make it in this business good for you. It's really, really, really hard. And then to not only make it, but then to keep it, it is so hard.

And it takes a lot of work and it's really fun and it's glamorous, what a lot of people see. But there's a lot of stuff in the back that is ugly and not sexy and a lot of work and a lot of nos and a lot of heartbreak to get there. So I've, you know, I've since changed my tune on that, especially now that you're a TikTok, because you're like, oh my God, you're a TikTok star.

And I think, you know what, that's hard to do. I couldn't do it. If you were to tell me right now, here at TJ do a dance and whatever, I wouldn't be good at it. I bet you it would go viral though. And you guys did a fricking TikTok, it would go viral. Wrong reason. But there's that asshole that can't dance.

Yeah. That's me. But that's what makes it so fun, is like you get on there and you make a fool of yourself, and it goes viral, and then people just, you get a whole new crowd of people that are like, who's this person? Oh, well maybe we should do it then.

As our manager's over here like, yes. I know. Anything's fine. She's like, maybe, maybe not. John, you have been so vocal about your mental health. I feel like the year 2020 and 2021 were big years for you guys. Both like it was almost like, I don't know if like Saturn was in you guys's charts at that time.

Is the Saturn like a thing you want? Oh, that's a daddy Saturn. You learn all the lessons and it's like, if you don't learn that lesson, it comes back around and it repeats itself. So it's like the opposite of mercury in retrograde. Because I feel like mercury is always in retrograde. Yeah, literally. It's always doing something. Can mercury chill out?

So Saturn's what you want. Can mercury just fuck off, please? All together? I get so frustrated with it. So Saturn's will be OK. I'm going to get Saturn tattoo. Daddy Saturn. So I feel like you guys both had really hard years and you know, the 20 and 2020 to 2021,

you went through something with your mental health. Can we dive into that? Yeah, absolutely. At the end of 2019, I've always struggled with anxiety and like I've teetered into depression here and there, but it's mostly anxiety and I don't know, it went unchecked for a long time I've never struggled with addiction fortunately you know I drink

and do some other things recreationally for fun but I've never been addicted to it but I am addicted to work I'm a workaholic I just work and work and work and when things are getting harder for me instead of me stopping I'm like no I can work harder and then I can work my way through it. Well, apparently you can only do that for so long. And at the end of 2019, we were on the road, we were on tour with Willie Nelson, Alison Krauss and Bonnie Raitt, who were like, I don't know, like of our Mount Rushmore growing up, that's probably three of the four. And I felt nothing.

I was just depressed, confused, tired, I wasn't sleeping. And then I ended up getting something called tinnitus or tinnitus, some people call it, ringing in my ears. And I still have it, long story short, I'm gonna go play with that now, but at the time it was a perfect circle of a lot of things. And I was being tormented, not only from my ears driving me crazy,

but my mind also driving me crazy and I wasn't sleeping. And I ended up pulling out of that tour, which is nuts to me. Like I would have to think that I did that now. It's like, again, I would still just jump for joy if I was on that tour. Peace is priceless though. And yeah, it is.

And that is such an underrated thing. We think of all the things we want, but peace is man. I know, but when you're in pursuit of this dream, it's hard, it's a hard one to catch. It's very fleeting. It's like trying to catch your shadow. It's always right there, but you never quite get it. And you unfortunately neglect a lot of things

that need attention in your life. And for me, it was mental health. And for other people, it's maybe physical health, family, and a lot of other things. Is that something you struggled with as a child too? Or did it happen just to rinse? Yeah, I did. I was quite very shy as a kid.

When I played the guitar, it was like, oh my God, this is how I know how to speak. I know how to be myself. And I had like an oasis, you know? And I found like friends that were also like geeky musician nerds. I'm like, oh, these are my people. But I've always struggled with it.

And I still do, but I'm in a lot better place. So I ended up going, there's a place in town called Onsite. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but it's very big in the music community. We love Miles Adcox. Miles is amazing. Miles is one of the people I talked to before I went there.

I ended up going to something called Milestones where they send the real crazy people. That's where I went. And you know, it was really hard. It was probably the hardest. I was there. I ended up going to something called Milestones where they send the rule of crazy people. That's where I went. And it was really hard. It was probably the hardest. I was there for three weeks. The first week I was like, get me the fuck out of here. And one day they were like,

look, you're not institutionalized. You can leave. And once they put the ball in my court, I was like, I knew deep down I shouldn't. And I stayed and I told myself, okay, if I'm gonna stay, I'm going to just be at everything and raise my hand at every question if I'm gonna stay, I'm going to just be at everything and raise my hand at every question. I'm gonna immerse myself in this and I did.

And a lot of things changed. I became, I took the curiosity part of my brain that was curious about music and guitar and all of these things. I became curious about mental health and the brain and the evolution of the brain and the prefrontal cortex versus the lower part of your brain like the limbic system and the amygdala, all these things.

I had to go super nerd mode because that's what my brain likes. It allowed me to really understand this thing that we carry around in our heads that's so mysterious to us. After that, I just decided to change a lot of things in my life. And since then I've had kids, which helps you have to prioritize things once they pop up because, you know,

they were not gonna give you a choice. You have to prioritize them. And everything in my life is better now than it's ever been. I still struggle, but I know what to do with it now. It's amazing that you had the foresight to know like, Hey, I can't leave here because I'm not okay. You know? And like to really, a lot of people don't want to do the work. You have to get through the darkness to see the light.

I preach about mental health on my podcast all the time, cause I suffer from severe anxiety and depression also and OCD. No, no, I get it. Good, great. Yeah, fuck yeah. No, I know what you said. Well, I will say one of the things that they talked about there a lot, you said the word when you go through it, it's something that we take as like some sort

of colloquialism as if like, oh, I'm just going through something. But if you really think about the words, think about I'm going through it. That's the only way to go through it. You can't go above it, you can't go under it, you can't go around it, you gotta go through it. That's the only way to go through it. You can't go above it. You can't go under it. You can't go around it. You got to go through it. And, but you will come out the other side. It's going to suck, but you will come out the other side. So you have to be willing just to

go through it. What do they say? If you want to get to it, you got to go through it. You got to go through it. Yeah. It's like to get to it, go through it. And also, you know, the more you do it, almost kind of the better you become at it, the less avoidant you are of it, the more you lean into it, the more inquisitive you are about yourself and your experiences, the more inquisitive you are about your own mental health, it just gets easier with time.

It never goes away, it just gets easier. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with that 100%. And I preach on this podcast also that you have to do the work. It's not gonna just happen overnight. You have to rip that bandaid off and bleed again and let it scar.

100%. It's tough cause you can't see it. It's like, okay, if you go to cavity or something that's like, anything if you were to cut yourself, it's like things you obviously need to go work on and take care of that anyone would do and wouldn't think twice about it or apologize for it.

Well, the fact that it's more part of the conversation now, like you talking about it, it's massive. Anyone that has like a good outreach talking about it is going to help put it in the conversation and then de-stigmatize it. Oh, absolutely. And it's also part of the healing is talking about it. I mean, it's same thing with like, I mean,

getting nervous, I remember when I would go on stage and I'm getting nervous, I would always try to be like, I'm not nervous, but then I was like, ah mean, get me nervous. I'm going on stage and I'm getting nervous. I would be, I would always try to be like, I'm not nervous, but I was like, ah, like, uh, and it's weird how just talking about it will help. I mean, like not trying to fight it. Like I'm going on stage. I'm like, damn, I'm nervous as hell right now. Like it makes me feel, but I don't know why that does help, but it does. Recognizing it. Yeah. You're, you're, you're what the mind thinks the body will follow.

And like when you speak words out, it like registers with your mind. And I don't know, it's just, it's crazy. The whole psychological. And a lot of it too is processing. Like if you're nervous, you know, and sitting down and clenching your hands, your body doesn't want to do that.

Your body wants to kind of get up and move. That's what nerves are. It's a sympathetic nervous response. So if you're nervous and talking about it and kind of moving, that's really good for you. It's a sympathetic nervous response. So if you're nervous and talking about it and kind of moving, that's really good for you. It's what your body wants. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm so happy you got the help that you needed and that you're doing so much better now. Thank you. I want to talk about your IVF journey, but next let's talk about TJ. 2021 was a big year for you. When did you know that you were gay? When I started liking boys.

So like as a child, no, it wasn't. I thought it was funny. No, I was young. I mean, really, really young. I didn't really understand it, but I mean, it was pretty, it was, I would say pretty much my whole life. I mean, it's one person comes I didn't really understand it, but I mean it was pretty, it was, I would say pretty much my whole life. I mean it's one person comes into realizing, Oh, like you're, you're, you're cute or I have a crush and not really knowing what that is. I mean, pretty young age and, um, but for a long time, I, you know, of course,

I denied it and, and fought it. And I was like, no way. Did you deny it because you felt like you didn't have a safe space to be able to come out? It just didn't feel like me. I mean, I guess I like, um, you know, at the time it was like, you know, a lot of the cliches of what being gay was and not that there's anything wrong with any of that stuff. It just wasn't what I necessarily identified as. Um, and mostly I just, I mean, I was just like,

I felt like a regular guy who likes doing redneck shit. And I was like, this isn't, this isn't how this works and and it just didn't fit into my life you know and I was like this isn't you know what I want for myself and I just felt like the image of what I wanted myself or what I wanted for myself like to have children and if you know have a family and you know those types of things which you know later in life you come to realize you certainly can have those. That was a big program that as a child, you know, and I just, you know, and that's kind of the, an interesting thing is because, you know, like, you know, I was like talking about like Shelley, right?

Amazing artists in the nineties had a bunch of hits and she came out, you know, as, as lesbian, but she brought this interesting point of just like, you know, being groomed, like, you know, she's like, I was groomed my whole life to be, to be straight, you know, she's like, I was groomed my whole life to be, to be straight, you know, like no one wanted this for me. Um, and I felt very similarly. I never really thought about it that way. And I actually, you know, I, I'm very fortunate because, um, you know, and this is why I don't really love to harp on it too much or be like, Oh,

like my life was, uh, bad. I mean, I certainly had a lot of heartbreak, but I grew up in a really good family. I mean, our parents could not have been more supportive of their children, regardless of what they did or who they were, as long as they were good people. And so I was really, really fortunate to grow up around that. So that was like really encouraging.

And then as I came up, it was like, you kind of get then get stuck in the narrative and it's weird to break out of it. Like I always kind of like liking it to someone calling you the wrong name or something. And I'm like, I don't really want to tell you my name isn't John, that's my brother. But I don't want to brush your bubble

because I don't want to make you feel bad. And then you get kind of stuck in this thing where you're like, everyone's thinking this one thing about me and it's not even hardly about me. It's more I'm worried about them feeling bad. And there was just so many things that are going on. But I did eventually reach a point in my life to where I was like, you know, things were good.

I wasn't putting a lot of premium on my happiness. I didn't even really know what that felt like. You know, I didn't know what I was missing. And then eventually I just got to a point to where, you know, I was in a relationship that I was really happy with. I was really happy with where my life was. Through all the shitty stuff of the pandemic,

it did kind of give us a minute to stop and smell the roses. You know, like our lives are good. And I was like, this is time, you know, to do this for me. And so a lot of people will come up and be like, oh, thank you for doing this for us and what you've done for the community. And that's amazing. I hope, certainly hope it's not for nothing. Right. But, uh, it was for me, it really was because I needed it.

I couldn't do it anymore. Well that has to be like a weight on your shoulder. It was, I didn't really realize it though. That was, it wasn't like, I was just on half. I didn't, it was a huge weight on my shoulders. I didn't realize until it was gone. I was like, holy shit. Like I didn't even want to talk about it. Like that when I was telling, I was like, when I come out, I just want to come out and I'm going to move on. Right. And then instantly I just felt way different. I'm like,

I do want to talk about it. It's a huge part of me. Now, like, um, the Sam Lansky, he wrote the article that, um, that came out, uh, with, uh, was one of the writers for time magazine and an amazing person, also a gay man himself. And I was like, you know, it's like, it's not a, it's not a big deal. You know, it's just not the biggest part of me. You know, it's like, there's so many other things that define me. And very simply, he was, he said, what if it is though, what if it's actually like the biggest part of you? And I was like,

I can almost cry thinking about it. It's like, it was so, I was, yeah, and this is a huge part of me and I've marginalized it to myself to make myself feel better about it. But it actually is wildly huge and how I think and how I feel, um, empathy that I have for other people and that have things in their lives that I don't understand, but I do understand what it was like to have to feel like you had to be someone else. Like this is really terrible.

And so as it pertains then to our career, it's been a beautiful thing to have come out because I felt like, man, we've always prided ourselves on just being like, this is who we are. You're like, this is take it or leave it. But I'm like, well, I'm not really entirely, you know, for me. And being able to actually be at that point, I feel like such a great relationship with the fans,

such a better relationship with my friends, and most importantly, way better relationship with myself. Like I really love myself for the first time. And I didn't really think about it before, but I didn't before, you know? And it's kind of, we have a song called I Don't Remember Me Before You, which the irony of this is that it was a song

that was Shane McNally, he's also gay, was talking about, he doesn't remember his life before he had his children. And he's like, I don't remember it at all. And that's kind of what the inspiration of that song was about. And a lot of people have used it as their wedding song. In fact, our sister Natalie asked me last night

if we would sing it at her wedding, which is coming up here in a few weeks. And... She didn't ask me. Yeah, which is coming up here in a few weeks. And, um, she didn't ask me. Yeah. She's like, I think you guys just move as a unit. So I sing the song a lot of times, even though it's about like kind of your life after a relationship. Um, a lot of times it makes me really even more emotional now when I sing it,

because I don't really, I don't remember myself before 21. Like I kind of do, but how I felt and my life is just so different and so in all the best ways, I don't remember what it was like to manage that before, thankfully. Cause you're living in your authentic authenticity. Yeah, exactly. Which is just so much easier. But the worst part about it though, honestly,

wasn't even, I got so good at managing it. By the way, if you just want someone not to pry into your life, all you gotta do is ask them a question. I mean, this is basically what you're doing here. People love to talk about themselves. So if you want to divert, be like, what about you? And they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I could just easily swerve.

But what I didn't like is it was getting to the point to where a lot of people that did know were having to hold the secret for me. And that was just not there across the bearer. I had a really good friend be like, oh my God, I feel so terrible. I outed you. And I was like, don't feel bad, man.

This is not your bullshit. It shouldn't be like this. If you lose any sleep over it, I would lose more sleep about that than anything. The self-awareness though, that's amazing that you have, you know, that's amazing because most people wouldn't think about how other people are feeling carrying their secret. Yeah, but it sucks, you know, and it is, and people that love me, you know,

and it was like people that I know would never ever cross me in any way that have done it a couple of times accidentally and felt all this guilt about it. I'm like, this is bullshit. Like this is just, it's just not worth it. You know, like all of this is amazing to have, you know, the lives that we have. But I also had so much fun when I was like broke and eating ramen noodles and sleeping on couches. Like I had the best time with my wife. Jay and I talk about that all the time.

We used to tour in an 18 passenger van. Exactly. Sleep at the like scummiest motel sixes. That was the best fucking time of my life. It was so fun. Exactly. And it's so true. I mean, I don't want to do it again.

It was so fun. Yeah, it was really cool, but I never want to do it again. Anyways, when you kind of look through that, and I felt that was what the pandemic really reminded me, because it took everything away. And we were losing more money than I thought we would ever even make in our lives. And I was blissfully happy. I mean, we were just sitting around the family

playing board games and drinking beers by the fire. It was like free pretty much. And I was like, this is so much fun. This is all I'll ever need. And I found through the hope, honestly, encouragement of some really close friends of mine too, they were like, yeah, I got your back. And that was also really important.

I think it's worth noting that, um, every person that was working for me or with me, um, people that were definitely affected by things that will happen in my life. Not once did anyone be like, man, I don't know, like this could change things. Everyone was just totally had the wind at my back. And that's where I don't really like to ever feel like, oh, it was hard for me because it was hard, but there's so many people who don't have the,

they have a complete opposite. Like they'll come out and lose their families. They'll come out, they'll lose their careers or whatever, or they might lose their wife. No kidding. That was a joke. I mean. That was a joke. I mean. Elton John, wasn't he married or something?

You know, so there's people that's really, really tough and I know people that literally don't even talk, speak to their parents and probably never will. And so that's hard. Starting your own business can be intimidating. You end up wearing every hat. Marketing, shipping, customer service, it gets overwhelming and lonely fast.

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managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into cha-ching with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash bunny. Go to Shopify.com slash bunny, B-U-N-N-I-E. What kind of advice would you give to say, somebody who's listening to this podcast right now that is struggling with their sexuality

and wanting to come out, like what advice would you give them? I mean, it's tough, there's so many things. I mean, the, the most cliche thing, which is true is it does get better. I mean, once you do it, there's not a single person that I know that has come out and has not felt like they wish that they had done it earlier. I'm like, Oh my God, I wish I could have my whole twenties like this. Um,

now I get some people just doesn't fit in. It's not the time. The other thing is that I would say there is never going to be a good time to do it. It's awkward. It's weird. It's just, I didn't want the attention from it. It's a strange, annoying thing that we have to do, but you, unfortunately, um, people will say, I don't want to hear about it. And I'm like, I don't want to talk about it either, but unfortunately it's part of the, until we get to the point where it isn't a thing, unfortunately it is, it is.

And so that's what I would say, like just be patient. It does get better, but also don't wait for this divine moment that's just going to suddenly happen. It rarely will ever come. And you just have to, at some point, just take a leap of faith and you'll land on your feet and you'll be happy you did. Yes, I love that, that's beautiful.

So John, let's come over here to you and let's talk about your wife a little bit. We talked about her in the beginning, but you guys have been together since 2007. That sounds right. Yeah, smoking like a true man. Well, to be honest with you, we were at the ACM's the other night

and he was talking about his, neither one of them remember dates very well. Lucy booked a show on their anniversary. It was our 10 year anniversary and I don't know, on the first, so what is it, like a week or something? I don't know, not a week, sorry, it was like three weeks. Yeah. And yeah, and Lucy, I had forgotten.

She was talking about, she was like, yeah, the day before that's her sister's wedding. And she's like,, I had forgotten. She was talking about, she was like, yeah, the day before that's her sister's wedding. And she's like, I don't know, I just, I feel bad. Like, I know I'm gonna be partying and I hope I can sing that day. And then it just occurred to us like, wait, that's our 10 year anniversary.

She booked a gig. I'm like, that's a- That's like me and my husband. We don't know the date that we got married in Vegas. Yeah, that's kind of how we are, but I don't know. I mean, my wife and I, I adore our relationship and the fact that we're similar in that way, it just makes it work that much more.

I mean, in fact, I remembered our first anniversary and she forgot it. And when I, it was like the day I was like, so what day is it today? She's like, what? What day is it today? She's like, the Thursday? I'm like, yeah, but something else. She's like, oh my God day is it today? She's like, the Thursday? I'm like, yeah, but something else.

She's like, oh my God, it's her one year anniversary. I'm like, the fact that you forgot is the greatest fucking gift you could have ever given me. Because now it's like all the pressure is off, you know? Yeah, 100%. I think relationships like that last though, when there's not so much emphasis on certain dates and having to celebrate.

Jay and I don't do that either. Valentine's Day, maybe we'll do a dinner, but usually not. I mean, I think it's probably important for those people that just don't celebrate each other that often. But I feel like we all do that. Like there's so many things. That's what I say, we live in love every day.

So it doesn't, yeah. 100%. We got married in our kitchen and we kept it really small. We didn't have a wedding, TJ and Natalie, threw a party and it was super chill. We've always kind of been like that, you know, but we met in 2007, we were both writing for the same publishing company at the time. I heard her sing on stage and you know,

that accent and she's beautiful and I'm like, who is this person? I need to be around them as much as possible. And we wrote and we hit it off and And we kind of talked on offer a long time and then made it official. The beginning of relationships are always weird. I don't care who you are. They're just, you kind of have to get through the muck.

And- So uncomfortable. Yeah, it's just weird, you know? But if it's worth it, you'll figure it out. And then we did. And then fast forward, you know, a bunch of years, we got married in a kitchen. We're both artists and writers fast forward a bunch of years, we got married in a kitchen.

We're both artists and writers and creators in pursuit of a similar thing. But due to that, there are a lot of people in our business that wait a long time for kids. Honestly, we didn't really talk about having kids. in my mind at all. It wasn't for her either. And then it just kind of evolved to a point where we were just talking about it, entertaining the idea. But by the time that happened, it was a little bit too late for us. And through a few, well, a lot of attempts,

use your imagination, things that didn't really pan out. So we tried IVF and we did several rounds of IVF. And this was like- When you say several, how many? Cause my husband and I are in the middle of our IVF journey we did several rounds of IVF and this was like when you say several how many because my husband and I Are in the middle of our IVF journey you are okay? So I think by the I think the last one was our fifth Wow so how far are you I'm about to start my second retrieval You're second okay, so it's I'm just observing them do it You don't realize how heavy IVF is until you, you get out of the first agri-treatment and you're like,

it's hell. Yeah. Obviously like, I mean you're talking about it here, but I mean, most people, it's a pretty personal private thing. Yes. So they're dealing with all this like emotional stuff kind of private. Just like mental health. I think you just have to talk. The more you talk about things more in the open, like your sexuality, and then there are obviously varying degrees of that, but the more you talk about it,

it just becomes more of the conversation, it's just something that you hold. More comfort. It doesn't feel so heavy anymore, but it was really hard, you know, I mean, best of luck to you guys, all of us sending you guys all the love, prayers, and good vibes.

Thank you. But it was, I had no idea how hard it was going to be for, even just for me having to not so much go, I'm excited about having kids, which I was, but having to see the person I love more than anything in the world go through that. Because there are a lot of implications around the idea of having to do IBF anyway, which I'm sure you understand.

Like, well, I wish I would have done it this way. There's a million things of, I wish it could have been that, right? But that is what it is. The trickiest part is, you have, the mother has to pump herself full of an insane amount of fucking hormones. It's an, but you know what's crazy is I was so happy.

Like I thought I was prepared to be like fucking just crazy. I even told my husband, I love you, go on tour. I'm going to do this at home. If I don't talk to you for a few days, it's because I'm going through it. I was the happiest I ever was. It was after the agri retrieval that was brutal for me. It was just the fall.

Oh, it was rough. It was so rough. It was really, really, really hard. And you know, I mean, there is like, I do think back at it, it was so rough. It was really, really, really hard. And you know, I mean, there is like, I do think back at, it was like a movie, like I remember us first going to the clinic and us laughing and we're like giddy, you know, which is crazy for me to think at the time

because kids just wasn't even on my radar. But the more I thought about it, the more excited I became. And it was one unsuccessful one after the other. And you hear a lot of things of people saying, well, we tried four or five, six rounds, and then we gave up and then we got pregnant on the next one. I'm sure you've had a million people tell you that. To me as the dude, I'm just like, oh, that's interesting.

But Lucy's like, well, now I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Like you're making me feel like I'm doing this wrong. You know, and of course we stop and then it doesn't work. You know, and you're always gripping on to hope. But it finally did happen. My wife and I have a boy and a girl twins, little ginger kids.

And it is the greatest thing in the world. It is the greatest thing. It's, you know, I'll say the same thing that everyone says. It's the hardest thing in the world that you'll do, you'll ever do, but it will be the best thing in the world that you'll ever do. I mean, like I'm here right now hanging out with you guys. This is awesome.

But I'm like pumped to get home because it's, they're just waking up from nap time. I want to go hug my babies. It is like that dopamine, serotonin, bomb goes off in your body. So I genuinely hope the best for you too. And I truly believe it will happen, but you just have to be patient.

That's all I can say. Yeah, sorry you're going through that. I know that's a lot. Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. You know, I'm a soldier, so we're gonna get through it. I believe it. And it's gonna to I'm like so

delusional sometimes that I pretty much manifest everything in my life. You have to be a little I tell my husband all the time. I'm like just let me be delusional. We're going to get through this. Everything's fine. He's like your husband's an artist. We're artists like you have to be delusional to do that. Yeah, there's a healthy amount of absolutely how has fatherhood changed you and you know the better? I mean it's ninety changed you for the better? I mean, it's 99% for the better, 1% not for the better

because I'm just more tired than I was. Yeah. Well with twins too, I can only imagine. Twins is a lot, but it makes you reprioritize things. And it's not like you have a choice really. Like I don't go, oh man, now I have to really think about my day. Like we have a nanny that helps out out she's done at five o'clock I have a

studio similar to you like really close to the house at five o'clock I'm like I gotta go I'm done I gotta go be with my kids and it's not even because I think well it's the right thing to do no I want to go be with my kids. And I realized like our career is great as things have been. It, you know, it's not worth taking that seriously when there are much more pertinent things in life like family and love and friends and you know, this our industry is full of nos and failures. And now when I hear a no or there's a failure,

I'm like, whatever, my kids are awesome. This is amazing. Like no matter how big or great or how bad something is in this industry, it just pales in comparison to that. And, you know, hopefully for Jelly, like there's this funny thing I tell a lot of dads, like you have like an extra gear.

I'm not saying if you don't have kids, you're missing out. Not having kids can be great because you can do whatever the fuck you want. I do miss that. But when you have kids, you're like, whoa, I have this kind of extra gear where I just kind of know how to do this. It's this weird subconscious kind of innate sense

that you have and it's the best. I mean, I just really hope the best for you too because when it happen and it will happen it's just your life will be forever changed for the better. I love it you light up when you talk about them. When you talk about your wife and your kids it's the cutest thing ever. I love them. They're great. What's it like being an uncle? Do you ever want to have kids? I would love to have children at some point in time, for sure. But I, there is, I've been an uncle for a long, long, long time. We have our oldest brother and sister.

Right. I mean, there's, we've got, God held our oldest nephew, probably 30. 30. One, two, three. 34 or something like that. Wow. And they have kids. So there's a lot of babies in the family.

But it's kind of the, I think the first time where I was of an age where I feel like I can actually be an uncle. I was like, I was basically just a child or a boy when a lot of them were growing up. But it is amazing. They're just getting to the age now when it's like, two years old, they're just now kind of like,

you're learning to speak and they're fun. You can throw them around and be rough with them. And it's like you know two years old they're just now kind of like they're learning to speak and they're fun you can throw them around and be rough with them and yeah it's amazing we've got a lot of a big family so there's a lot of babies that's amazing i bet you guys are a blast to hang out with it is it is a fun family you know so we got our sister is getting married at the end of this month and um she's uh her and her fiance jacob are having their wedding at my home. And so I'll have like, it's going to be amazing, but there's going to be 15 at least people staying with me and are more, a lot of new born babies and it's going to be lovely,

but it's also going to be like, Oh my God. Yeah. When they leave, you're going to be like, all right, don't let the door, the door hit you. No, it's not. I know every single one of us are going to be going through that at some different time of like, this is a lot. That's how we are with family vacation comes up. We all get together. We all stay in the same house. Everybody's so excited. The first two days,

by day three or four, we're like, Oh, yeah. Designated areas. The thing is I look forward to those moments too, cause after they've passed, they're really funny to talk about, you know, like in the, in the weeks or months later. But, um, yeah, we we've always had a big family and that's like, I think the biggest thing for us, it's always like really kept us so grounded. I think in our lives is we just, I mean our family will call us on our shit.

They're super proud of us, but they will also be like, what now? Yeah. Like, I know you're a nerd, like, you're not that cool. Yeah, they'll pop the head really quick. Exactly. So I want to circle back to 2022, after you came out, the silver lining was you guys did your song,

Younger Me, and you guys won a Grammy for that. Yeah. That's amazing. That is an accomplishment because some people go through a whole music careers without winning a Grammy. I know. It was, we had, you know, we had had the wonderful privilege of being nominated quite a few times.

And in fact, I always joke that it's somehow, I think the amount of times we lost is more impressive than the one time we won. But I, you know, we, it was really, I felt like serendipitous because that song, it was kind of like, you know, a lot of times you're writing songs, you're thinking about like, okay,

where are we gonna play this? Like, are the fans gonna like it? People can sing along here. Is it gonna work on radio? Is it gonna, and that song was just solely like, are the fans want to like it? People can sing along here. Is it going to work on radio? Is it going to, and that song was just slowly like, this is something that I need to say and it kind of came out of nowhere. And John felt like in his setting that it was also applies to him.

And, uh, you know, and for those of you who do not know, it's something younger me. It's like, if you could talk to your younger self, like I think all of us feel this way, like, oh my God, you know, like the heartbreak and how hard you are on yourself and, and just to be able to look back and be like, man, like you're going to make it and you're going to like how you turn out. Like you're, everything's going to be great. You know, like if I could just go back there and talk to my younger self, it'd be amazing. Yeah. Um,

and that's kind of what the song, the inspiration for that song was. Um, and we had just released because when I did come out, I didn't want it to be around any promotion. I'm like, I don't want this to be opportunistic. I don't want to be a record, I don't want to be a tour, but there's always, I mean, amazingly, there's always shit going on in our lives. Yeah.

So we had just released a record and I was like, okay, then that came out. So then I was like, well, I want this song to be out. I don't want to wait for the next record that might be years from now, because I probably won't want to say this then. And so we re-released our Skeletons album with that song on it.

And while it wasn't a song that we like worked for radio or wasn't this hit or like this thing that made us probably really any money necessarily, I don't know, probably a little, it was just the, I think the impact, um, spiritually or emotionally and the connection to the fans. And it felt really like, this is just like a little nugget of, of reality here, you know, just some real shit. And, um,

and it felt very serendipitous at that moment because I had been to the Grammys at this point, probably, I don't know, maybe this might be my, at that time, maybe 10th year going or close to it. Wow. And I never once brought a date to the Grammys. And so it was, I mean, you can, you can look up me giving my speech.

I'm emotional mess. I'm crying because I'm like, I'm at this award show, accepting my first Grammy award for a song that was inspired by me coming out. And it's the first time I've ever brought a date to the Grammy awards. I got goosebumps. Yeah, it fucked me up.

I was like, you know, and then I'm there with my brother and it felt like we were like, you know, there's a picture and it's like, we had our arms around each other, walking down the aisle to get on stage. And I just see like eight year olds, John and TJ, it's just like little boys going up there. And it was like, there was so many things I was like, Oh my God, like we did it, you know, but also doing it for something that was important and not for the

money, you know? And it was, it just was, it was perfect. And I was a emotional damn mess. You know, I was, so I had this big gaudy ass like gold suit on, I had dyed my hair blonde. And my, you know, I get back and our mother, she's like, she was like, well, are you proud of yourself? And I'm like, I think you're supposed to say you're proud of me here, but yeah. But yes.

I really like mom. I like mom. She will humble you. You should have her really like mom. I like mom. She's a character. We went to her house for last night for mother's day and we went to play a, a 500 rummy. Yeah. And she was just roasting my ass. I'm like, I came over here because I love you. Like, can you like, give me a breath? I love it though. She's like, she goes, your ass. So she goes, well, she's like, she's like, well, I am proud of you. And I was like, thanks mom.

And I know that she is, I was just kidding. But, and then she goes, well, I thought you looked really handsome, but she hated my blonde hair. And she doesn't like that I wear anything that's gold. And so she's always, she's always said this. And so she's like, and I'm wearing a gold suit, my hair is blonde.

And she goes, and she's like, well you looked really handsome, but your suit should have been silver and your hair shouldn't have been type on. I'm like, that was the entire look other than just my face. It was the entire thing. So what was it that you liked exactly? Oh my God, you know, again, moms, hell. We love moms.

We love moms. TJ's her favorite though, so I think she just has a high bar for him. Oh god, does she ever? Yeah. She doesn't even deny it anymore. She's like... But even last time, I'm just like, what the hell?

Me and my sister are playing cards with her and she's just like, I'm like, what the hell? Is this a roast? Like, what the hell is going on? You're like, who needs enemies with family like this? Yeah, 100%. Totally kidding though. So, I just have one question to ask you guys

before we talk about what we have to look forward to for Brothers Osborne for this year. Touring together as much as you guys do and as closely as you guys do, has there ever been a really big fight while you're on tour or when you're about to go on stage? I don't know that we've had some fights. When they happen, everyone clears the fuck out. Like we don't even have to say it.

They're like, I don't want to be on either side of this. Like everyone does evaporate. Does it, does he kind of like suck the air out of the room? Two big dudes yelling at each other. It's probably just like, ah, I'm just going to go in the other room. For the most part we get along, but we did. And, and, um, uh, and of course, I'll be like, you know, like our drummer or something, Adam, I'm like going to go in the other room. For the most part, we get along, but we did. And of course, I'll be like, you know, our drummer or something, Adam, I'm like, Adam, you were there.

And then he's like, leave me the fuck alone. At least they know to stay out of it, though. Shit, I know. It is amazing. Yeah. It's totally the move. Because you would hate if they chimed in. And then you two would have to gang up on them and be like,

wait, what are you talking about? It's a live bond. They're not going anywhere near it. No, no, no. They're just like, and so, uh, but when it happens, it is like, it's really acute and it's really big and it gets so, but it's, and within 15 minutes it's over and we've moved on and it's like, and we're like doing like, all right, that was good. We got that out of us. But there was a time, uh, I didn't want to talk about this. It's interesting. Um,

I think, um, is there was a time for whatever reason, a time, I didn't want to talk about this. It's interesting. I think is there was a time for whatever reason, a various, a bunch of little things, this added up and to the point where John and I couldn't stand to be around each other. Like we wouldn't, we wouldn't be in the same, literally would not be in the same room with each other. One would walk in and we'd just, one would leave. And it got, was like, it was excruciating.

It was just uncomfortable. And we went to couples therapy because we were like, what the hell is going on? We need to sort our shit out. This is not right. And again, you're like, you think of you hear all these horror stories of like families and brothers getting in the music business and you're like, we're not going to become that. Like wonderwall or exactly like the everly brothers, you know, we're famously, you know, like those icons are famous. You just throw all like that.

Yeah. Although, yeah. Anyhow. So I think made the point there. And we, so we sat down and the therapist was like, man, he was just like, and this is awesome. I'm like, what? He's like, you guys are so mad at each other.

This is great. And I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? He's like, this is amazing. You guys care so much about what you're doing that it has got you to where you're just both fucking pissed off. And I'm like, yeah, that's a hundred percent. Right. And he's like, if you guys, if one of you didn't give a shit and you were just empathetic, that would be a huge problem is that you guys are arguing so much because you

care so much. And I was like, damn, like, that was easy. That's perspective. Yeah. No, it was. And you know, and honestly the circle back to the mental health things and talking to people, it is almost always the most like obvious things. They're just always right here. They just need to hear them. Like my Sam Lansky saying, well, maybe this is the biggest part of you. And I'm like, well, yeah, it's, I mean like it's right here. I didn't, I can't see it. And for this to happen. And so it was like a big changing point for us and we still get after it.

But there's some times where I think it takes us a minute to realize, okay, like we were very passionate. We love what we're doing. We love each other. We love, you know, this project, whatever it is, and try to keep that in mind. And especially when John admits that I'm right, it's usually nice to go way smoother. Who's the one who always has to kind of give in? Who's the hard headed one?

I don't know that either was entirely given. I'm definitely more hard headed and outspoken. See, John's... You're a Scorpio Sagittarius. I'm a Scorpio, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you're right, you're right. Did you know that or did you just guess that? No, I know you guys' birthdays.

And you're a Taurus, right? I love us, yes, yes. My husband's a Sagitt birthdays. You're a Taurus, right? I love this. Yes, my husband's a Sagittarius. You can't fucking argue with a Sagittarius, dude. But my whole teams are Tauruses. So it's like, I don't know. We rule. Yeah, I love Tauruses.

And that's what Abby is, is a Taurus. But the thing is, is what, and Abby would do this too, is that John does this thing where he will be like, yeah, you're right. And I fucking know that that's not what they feel. I'm like, you're just saying it to shut me up, which is pissing me off even more. I'm like, don't agree with me.

I'm like, just at least have a fucking opinion. We know right where the button is. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. I love that you guys are huge advocates for therapy too, though, because I preach that a lot on my podcast too. It is, you know, but the big, you know. It's so helpful to your life.

I think a lot of that has changed, but the biggest problem now is just simply, I think two things. One, people having the time to do it. Yes. Having to find a therapist, it's so overwhelming. You have to date your therapist. I tell everybody that. Like you, like literally you have to do a few sessions with them.

You do. Because there's some weirdos out there. They're not all the same and they're not always right for you either. The next problem with this is it's expensive. And so a lot of people, like, you know, I had a friend who was staying with me recently. He's going through some stuff and he was like, I think I want to try therapy. And I'm like, I would love for you to do it. But I'm like, don't, he said, I want one time. I'm like, that's almost worse.

Like to dive down in there, pull all of the shit out and then never put it back together. Like it's going to put you in a worse place. Like give yourself some time to get through at least four or five, six sessions to be able to do it. But that's expensive. A lot of people don't have the time or the money. And then if they do have both of those things,

it's overwhelming. Like where do I begin? It is, you can get some therapists in our crate. You know, it's like the, what they say about, uh, what do you call a med student that got all these? Oh yeah. Are that a learning on chat? GTP? Lucy, my wife does therapy as well and it's been amazing. It's amazing for everybody, but she also does chat chat, chat, chat, GPT therapy and I like it's been amazing. It's amazing for everybody. But she also does chat GPT therapy,

and I like, it's kind of working. Oh no, chat GDP is scary. I'm obsessed with AI. I love AI. I don't want to be an admin. I want to own two robots, okay? I love AI. We're all going to be replaced here in a couple of years. But she reads me some of the things that it's saying.

I'm like, that's actually great advice. No, it's crazy. Have her tap into the spiritual side of it. I'll send you a clip of what I did with ChatGTP and it scared the hell out of me. Because it got super spiritual. It gets very spiritual and like, will tell you things about your life

that you've never even talked about to it. That's crazy. Like it had messages from my father who's passed. But that told me what a psychic a year and a half ago told me. And like there's no way that chat, JTP would have known that it's, it's really crazy. This is a, this was like a really fun, funny argument between Abby and I is I would need to ask my opinion about

something. And I'm like, you should get this car or whatever. This is the one you should get. And then he would come back later. But I asked chat GPT and it said that you should do. And I'm like, you should get this car or whatever. This is the one you should get. And then he would come back later and be like, I asked chat GPT and it said that you should do that. I'm like, I know. I like, I know a lot of our cars. I know that's the car you should get. And then he'd come back with something else

and he'd be like, yeah, well chat GPT told me this. I'm like, that's what I just told you. And he was like, oh, okay. He goes, all right. He's like, yeah, chat GPT told me you were gonna say that. And then I was like, so then I, I then changed. Then he made a joke about me being chat GPT. And then I was like, yeah, chat, GBT told me you were going to say that. So then I, uh, I then changed, uh, then he made a joke about me being chat, GPT. And then I was like, well, I was like, no, it'd be chat GPT.

Tj. I'm like, are you leaving me for chat? GPT? You know what? Some people are going to start falling in love with, with you. You've seen movies like that. There's her with locking Phoenix. It's I've never seen it. I'll have to watch it. That is what it's about 15 years ago. I mean, it's an older, I'll have to watch it. That is what it's about.

15 years ago, I mean it's an older, I mean like 10 years. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. It was so ahead of its time that even then it was kind of like, well okay, this is weird. I feel like they always predict in this. They do. It is crazy, you should watch it, it's an amazing film,

but there's this, he basically falls in love. Follows him up, Scarlett Johansson does the voice, so it sounds really like she's got a great sexy speaking voice. And, but it's like warm and apathetic. And he falls in love with this thing. It's a great movie, but we're like, we're a half a step from that right now. Literally. Yeah.

No. And then the robots that they're testing right now, I've already told them, I'm like, I want to, I literally need to. Yeah, two robots. Like I'm all about the farm. You are in all of this. I'm like all about the farm life, but I need two robots on the farm with me. Yeah, I think it'll be awesome.

It'll be awesome. The teacher will play drums, bass, whatever we need, shovel some cow shit, whatever we need. So what do we have to look for with Brothers Osborne for the rest of the year and going into 2020? Well, yeah. So we're working on music right now. So we're not touring a ton this year for that purpose.

And we've been cutting all of our new stuff at John Studio with our band, which we cut our first few records with them. And it's been nice to have them back in the fold. And we've been self-producing the project, which has been so fun. And I really feel like it's kind of a return to where we started. And as you start off, you do this, you kind of want to do something

different and you get over here and over there and we've circled back around to where kind of where we started is fresh for us again, and it's fun. And we have a really clear vision on, on what we want it to be and what we want it to look like and sound like. And I feel like it's something we've never quite had like this vision, I think of what we wanted for a project out of an album. And it boils down to basically a lot of our inspiration from where we came from and our hometown and our family.

And so just kind of strip away all the bullshit really. And so it's been fun. And so we're in the throes of doing that now. We just released the first single off of that called I finished this drink. It was like a funny song. It was basically inspired by her dad. I was like, we'd be at the bars with him when we were little

and we were like, dad, I'm ready to go. And he's like, just one more. And he, unbeknownst to us, he's also saying this to our mom. Not dad bringing the kids to the bar. Oh no, no, at one point I thought we were dad. Back in the day, that was like normal. That's what you did, you were gonna drive him home. I remember I was like, you know, I was like 12

and I was like, dad, am I gonna get in trouble for driving? And he goes, a hell of a lot less trouble than I'm going to drive them home. I remember I was like, you know, I was like 12 and I was like, dad am I going to get in trouble for driving? And he goes a hell of a lot less trouble than I'm going to. So anyhow, you know, and then I realized this, I got older. I'm like, shit, that's really easy to do to like tie one on and you went there for two drinks and next thing you close the bar down. But that's some of that song is, was really inspired by that. Uh, which is like, again, coming full circle. And then as we roll into the next year, we're this hasn't been set up yet, but it's probably likely that we will set up a big headline tour for next year

and then toward this new record and, and go out and do it. Are you going to bring the family on the road with you when you tour? Oh, you know, and then since I was a coin toss, that's a coin toss. We'll see. It's just, it's just a lot. And they're getting at it. going to bring the family on the road with you when you tour? Oh, you know, and then since I thought coin toss, that's a coin toss. We'll see. It's just a lot. And they're getting at it. They're at an age to where it's like, it's just like having what two wild animals. Yeah. So I can't, I'll take them to the park and they'll just run in complete opposite different opposite directions and I'm like, okay, which one's annoying me less today? That's the one that I'll go after. Yeah, we'll have to have the occasional

extra family bus to come out. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, when we went out to Stapleton's, they made like a full corral with their buses. So it would have to be something like that where we can maintain some sort of order with these. That's what we do. So whenever I go out with my husband, I have my own bus.

Cause one, I'm not going to bunk with eleven dudes on a bus. I need all the female energy around me. So we bring out my own bus and when the kids come out because Jay has two kids, whenever the kids come out, they stay with me on my bus. Yes, you kind of care. Yeah, so that way you can be the artist, but you still have, you know, the family that's within reach. Yeah, that's I love that. Having your own boss. Let's go girl. Oh yeah. No, I have to. I'm listen. I'm I paid my dues and I fucking slept in the shitty motels. I did the freaking 18 passenger vans. We did this, you know, for the

past 10 years, you earned it. You are. So finally now I'm like, you know what? Let's just fucking split it. You don't you. You don't have to convince me. Yeah, for sure. Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. I'm blessed to have you guys. I love your podcast. Thanks for having us. Thank you.

I appreciate you guys. And you guys have to come back and see me. We'll do. Maybe we'll bring Lucy and Fulfill. Yes, please. I feel so bad about that whole situation. It's not even your fault. I know.

But still, I feel terrible that she was excited to do it. And then she's like, some Nigerian guys on the other end. This Nigerian prince just conning everybody. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you guys for tuning into another episode of Dunblonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye.