Dumb Blonde - Dumb Blonde Podcast: Larry Birkhead (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

Part 1 of a 2-part series Bunnie sits down with former celebrity photographer Larry Birkhead to reveal the untold story of Anna Nicole Smith—beyond the headlines. From their first meeting at the Kentucky Derby to the chaos behind the spotlight, Larry shares what really went down.He opens up about Anna’s private struggles, media misconceptions, wild moments, and the side of her the world never got to see. From love and loss to legal battles and protecting her legacy—this is the real story.From intimate moments and unexpected kindness to public scandals and personal heartbreak, Larry reflects on the highs and lows of their relationship—and how it all began.Larry Birkhead: IG Watch Full Episodes & More: YouTubeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Mr. Larry Burkhead. Thank you. Thank you. Well, what an intro. Thank you. I mean, it's real, though, because I feel like everybody is like, oh, it's Anna Nicole's X. And it's like, I think you're so much more than that. I think you survived a shitstorm. and literally chose to raise a daughter over profit. And I think just your testimony and stood the test of time, there's so much that we're going to dive into that I learned about you. And then I rewatched the documentary last night that we're going to kind of dissect while we're on the podcast together.

But I mean, just starting off, you grew up in Kentucky. I was really, it was really crazy. Is this right information? Because sometimes I Google stuff. and get like wrong information. You have a twin brother? I do have a twin brother. Do you guys look like identical?

We don't actually, we don't look at all like. We're fraternal, but had we looked a lot alike, I would have probably used him as a decoy during a lot of my craziness. Dude, that would have been so cool, right? That was going to be my next question. Like, if you had a twin brother, why did you not just like you guys could have totally played the media? Which is, it's weird because I have a twin brother, but my dad's name is Larry Burkhead.

So, or was, he passed away. but he, when all this stuff came out in the media, he had a lot of fun with his friends telling them that he dated Anna Nicole. Oh, I bet. If you don't believe you, just look at the papers by name. So yeah. I love that. That's awesome.

So your family has had to stand beside you through this whole craziness, which we'll get into later. But I want to learn a little bit more about you. So tell me a little bit about you. You grew up in Kentucky. I know that you went to college and high school. And you're still in Kentucky. Well, what we did, I grew up. You know, when I was young, my family moved just months old from Pennsylvania to Louisville, Kentucky.

And then I grew up there, and, you know, it was a great place to grow up. And while I was there, you know, going through high school, I started wanting to get into journalism and things like that. And so I actually started, you know, taking classes with photography. when I was in college, I took a lot of journalism classes and that was my major and everything. And so basically, kind of just wanted to go down that path,

but I didn't really know kind of where I wanted to fit in the whole journalism thing. So I started getting interested in like celebrity, photography and some stuff like that. And so I actually started out writing. And when you're in Kentucky, there's not a ton of stuff. stuff when it comes to like celebrity stuff.

So you have to either travel to Nashville. Unless you're into the Judds. Yeah. Shout out to Wynonna. Or, you know, you go, you know, you travel to the big cities and you do work. So I kind of like carved out a little, you know, spot for myself to where, you know, my career took off when I was like just in the right place at the right time. I had a, I was doing a lot of volunteer work for the Derby Festival and they were recruiting people

to come in for the Derby. things. And it was a year that I was kind of like, you know, like Mr. Haney on Green Acres, you're doing this, but you're also doing that. Right, right. Like Jack of all trades. Yeah. So it was kind of like at the same time, I was trying to break into the photography stuff. So there was an situation where there was the whole movie Titanic craze, you know, had just happened. And there's always a steamboat race for the Kentucky Derby as a part of this two-week festival. They'll race anything, dogs, beds, you know, whatever. It's like, so. I want to do the Kentucky Derby. I want to. He keeps inviting us and I want us to go. I think it would be so sick.

If we can make it work in our calendars, we will. But I'm excited. I want to do it. It'll be awesome. But so yeah, so that year, I want to say it was like 1998. One of the steamboats that were racing against the other steamboat had just sank. And somebody, a worker got mad. They got fired and they pulled something and the whole boat went under. So they just brought the boat up at the time of for this whole big festival for that week and um on the boat was glorious stuart which is like the the the old lady from the titanic that threw the necklace in the ocean yeah you know and uh she was there and it was just kind of like a history artifact yeah and like seriously in human form i remember because i had my my little microphone my little tape recorder and i had my camera and stuff and i had never had a picture published i'd never had a picture published i'd never written a story. I was taking classes, so I was kind of like hyper to get out there before I really

should have. Yeah. And I managed to get her to come up to the edge of the steamboat that just sank. And she put her arms out like, you know, the king of the world. And I snapped the photo. And I don't know. I mean, it's probably wasn't the greatest photo. I remember like one of her fingers got cut off. But at the time, it was like the beginning of like digital. But why is she always around boat sinking? I don't know. What is going on with this lady? I have to be honest. I'm glad she was that year because what it did for me was I got my first byline and it to other people you know it's like okay whatever but to me it was enough to energize the spark in me to say hey this is something cool that I want to do so I kind of parlayed that into trying to get into this big derby party

it's it happens every year and I would see it on television it's the barn stable brown gala and it's like a diabetes fundraiser and to me growing up it was almost like getting a ticket to the Wonka chocolate factory right. Because on the news they always, yeah, they show these gates and you don't know what's going on behind it, but everybody's talking about it. But you can't get in. Right. So I was like, that was the only celebrity stuff that was happening because when the derby happens, a lot of the celebrities come in and stuff. And that's really, if you're going to be an entertainment news, you know, area, that's like where it's at.

So I had called before, you know, to this hostess of this party and ask if I could cover it prior to me getting my picture that year. and I got hung up on like every year like you know buzz off you know you know and so basically um after that byline came out and I thought you know I was bigger than you know anybody going I took you put a little wind in your sale yeah I went over there and I had it laminated and I dropped it off on the front porch and then I went around the corner and got on my cell phone was probably like this big you know like the bag phones and stuff yeah and I was like hey you know it's me you know I got my naming the, it was USA Today was my first ever article, first ever byline. So to me that was, that's awesome though. Well, and I, I, only because a lot of people have to work their way to get to

there, for me, it was just kind of being in that right spot. Because when I called the editor, they're like, okay, we want this, don't give it to anybody else. And so that particular, just that happenstance moment got me into that party. And I worked my way through that party every year. kind of like the go-to guy for all like the weekly magazines and the celebrity things and the newspapers and I actually had it to where um I don't even know how I did it but I would always be covering for like three or four magazines two newspapers you know and and everybody wanted their own exclusive so I was like but I wasn't really like a paparazzi like I didn't stand and like like wait you know so that was that was going to be my next question was it more like paparazzi but you were interested in

the journalism side of it which I think is awesome because I love journalism and I feel like journalism is such a dying art, especially now with social media. So I think that's really cool. Well, I started out, you know, even though the photograph was one of my first things along with a little byline or whatever, I remember after that, I started, you know, doing the written reports. So I would go on, like, I went on tour with, like, different music artists. They would assign me to, like, the Lilith Fair with the Dixie Chicks and all that.

Remember all that? Of course. That was like, what a time to be able to. live. Yeah. Like, it was awesome. And then they, um, I got on this, they stuck me on this, um, Ricky Martin thing where everybody was like going crazy about, you know, it was like the whole live and levita local thing. Give me, give us some Ricky Martin tea. Well, you know, honestly, the thing with, um, Ricky Martin, I mean, I mean, he was always really cool to me. They always let me go backstage. I had really good access and stuff. The thing that happened to me is I

wrote an article. And after like the 15th concert, I was like, you know, what else can I say? But, you know, when your editors telling you what to do, you're like, you know, hey, I've got to do this. So I remember it was around Christmas and I had, I think I was all the way up in like Columbus or something. And there was a Christmas show. And there was a one of, there's a lot of stuff that happened. I don't think that anything was like, oh my God, crazy. But it was like, I was like saying, okay, here's what happened to the editors. And I turned my story in. Well, they took everything that I wrote and then one little sentence that I wrote that was said that a male dancer gave Ricky a kiss on the cheek.

So that was the headline. And ran with that. So then I started getting calls from like Ricky's publicist and she was like saying, you know, oh he's, you know, what's going on? You know, I was like, so I mean, I don't want to get into like too much of it because it really wasn't my, as far as like the intention.

It wasn't my intention. And then I was at the mercy of like a newspaper. But like after that I, I, because of I understood where they were coming from of like, you know, why did this happen when there was this and this? And I kind of changed my focus. I was like, and I had a couple run-ins. I can't name the name, but I had a celebrity run-in that I had where I had to stand up

for the truth of what, you know, my interview was. And that led to me just getting kind of a sour taste in my mouth about like the written part of it. Especially back then. Because, I mean, we have clickbait now. But it's nothing like it was back then. in, you know, the early 2000s were the paparazzi and the inquirer and like all those tabloids were just insane. They were looking, they were like vultures.

They would literally, I've had so many guests, so celebrity guests on the couch and talk about how, you know, back then they would pretty much blackmail people. Yeah. And say, you either have to do this interview with us or we're going to run our version of what we care to tell the world. Yeah. Yeah. It's, but they, I mean, there was always, you know, I guess after those stories and things. And it wasn't specific like about any one artist. I just kind of felt like it was a need to kind of transition to photographs because I felt like the photographs, they're not going to edit my photographs.

I mean, they could, but they're, you know, they speak for themselves. And they didn't have AI back then. So they couldn't like contort it. That's how ancient I am. But like, you know, it... Same. We share the same birthday, which I love. Yeah.

I love that you're born in January 22nd. Because I don't meet very many people who are born on January 22nd. The same day. Yeah. You know, and Anna's son, Daniel, was born the same day. I do know that. I do know that. We'll talk about that in a little bit.

I went and visited their graves in the Bahamas whenever I went there. Yeah. I've always been a huge Anna fan. So moving on from that, what was your most... besides, you know, meeting Anna Nicole, of course, but who was your favorite celebrity to work with and who was your least favorite if you can tell us? You know, honestly, I don't know if it's just because

I try to be nice to everybody, and that's just, I was brought up in a way, you know, open doors for, you know, people and help people across it. You're a southern gentleman. Yeah, well, thank you. But I never really didn't have a whole lot of beef with people. I will say that one of the sweetest people that I actually met way back before all my craziness and then had and then I wouldn't say met again,

but they didn't really remember me again, but we developed a great relationship. And Danny Lynn was really just loved this person was Loretta Lynn. Oh. Just the sweetest. That's amazing. Yeah. And Danny Lynn actually looked up to her like she was a grandmother, you know, type figure. And we can talk about it later with the absence of, you know, Anna's mom being a, that grandmother type. But yeah, so that was one of the nicest, I would say. But I, like, I went on tour like Tina Turner concerts, a lot of different. That is so cool. Yeah.

Like, no, not many people can say that. Like, you went on tour with Tina Turner. Like, that's amazing. How was she as a, as a human? I mean, she was nice. I honestly didn't spend a ton of time with her. It was just to be in the presence of someone that's. Yeah, to even see a show from her.

Like, that's amazing. But I like I kept finding myself in these weird situations like I would be sent from one job to the next and I was kind of on a row. And it did a lot for my self confidence because I wasn't really a big, I wasn't always confident about myself. And I was this always like the lanky kid in school that was like, you know, like stuffing my shirts with like fake muscles or something that or double layer in the clothes. So for to me it was like, you know, it did a lot for me, you know, myself and my confidence for all that. But I I just kept moving in. into something else. I remember like one time I was out in LA and I don't know how this happened but I was covering there was a reporter that canceled for a major news organization

and I did the red carpet for them and I was backstage when Hallie Berry won her award for the best actress or whatever. For Monster? Yeah and it's weird because she came I guess she did some press on a different area that I wasn't

at. She came back off the stage and she ran out the stage and I was like happy for her. I'd never met her in my life and I opened my arms and like she was like oh my God and like she hugged me and then it it was like a good probably 10 seconds and she started going like this like she's like all right enough buddy who are you yeah because it was like like the reality said and it's like I don't know this guy and but you know but you guys were both so caught up in the moment like what a sweet moment I was happy for her and you know and I'm sure she probably doesn't remember but it was like to me it was like just I just kept finding myself in weird spots.

Yeah, well, you were meant to be there for a reason, even though you might not know why. Yeah. You still were meant to be there for a reason. She needed that hug. I, um, but after that, I went on and I continued to do the Derby beat every year. And that's when in, um, 2000 and, I'd say 2002, it started getting really crazy. There were a lot of, like, crazy celebrity happenings. There was a time when Pam Anderson came.

She was dating Kid Rock at the time to the Barnes Stable Brown Gala. It was like this real chaotic and like celebrities go. It's like a backyard bash but like a really cool gala. And it's like for diabetes. So people are doing a good thing but also having a great time. And it's like so Pam Anderson's there. It's a new relationship with Kid Rock. And I guess a lot of the media started spinning things from the night into different tales.

Wow. Like they do. Yeah. And it was like by the end. of the time when it was done, she was on the ground looking like some baldhead fan's head or was, you know, and then all of this stuff came into. Did that happen?

Well, there were some crazy things that happened. It was a year like when Anne Hache, the actress was there. And, you know, and like there was a lot of like crazy things. And I don't want to say every single thing. But I'll say that out of that some of the stuff that was reported, that whole thing got caught up in Pam Anderson, I think in Tommy Lee's divorce or something. It was going on at the time.

And it was going back and forth. and I don't know, or some divorce case she was in. Right. And so basically it was like news. So the following year, you know, it was 2003, and I was back on the same beat again. And all these celebrities were announced of who was coming. And one of the celebrities was Anna Nicole Smith. And I was going down the list of the celebrities with my editors.

And they were like, okay, good. good, good, good. You know, and they was like telling me what we want to be doing. They're like, okay, Anna Nicole's coming. Don't leave her sight. And I was like, okay, all right, yeah, whatever, you know. So, okay, pause right there. Were you a fan of Anna before meeting her?

I mean, I think she's like every guy's fantasy. Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, you know, posters, you know, when she was, you know, when doing guests and stuff and all that, I had that. And, you know, I'd seen her in the magazines probably long before, you know, like, I should be, you know, I'm like going through magazines in my dad's room and stuff. Yeah. But like.

I mean, I did too. She was hot. Yeah. So yeah, I knew of her, but I also knew of like the headlines, the things that people had said about her. Right. So I, you know, had. But even being in that industry, like, you still believed headlines because you knew

how they worked. Well, I really don't, I don't know that I believe them. I'm always like open to like, you know, finding out for myself. Gotcha. But I was, you know, look, it's, it's. We're human. so we're going to judge. Yeah.

But at the same time, you know, like, it was during her reality show. Oh, okay. So basically she was in the middle of shooting reality show. The same year, Jessica Simpson was there. She was shooting her reality show. I think Janet Jackson and LaToya Jackson hadn't seen each other in years or whatever they were together. It was like all these weird things were happening. I feel like it was such a cool time back then.

Yeah. Like we don't have that anymore. Yeah. There's no organic, like, celebrities don't talk anymore. They've learned their lessons because of that era. But it was weird, though, that night just seemed a little bit weird. But I will say, you know, Anna was doing her thing. She was, you know, when they shoot reality scenes, it seemed like somebody was kind of

telling them, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, or whatever. And totally was, she was busy. I kind of took note of her, took pictures. How did you feel the first time we saw her? I honestly thought, you know, that she was extremely. pretty. I thought she was, now, and I don't mean this in any different way, but, you know, Anna's weight had gone up and down. This was when she was at her heaviest, and I looked at her, and I thought, wow, you know, people were making fun of her in the press about her weight and stuff,

and I still thought, I was like, say what you want, but this is like, she's beautiful. Yeah. You know, and so I, there wasn't a lot of interaction then, because I felt like with, as far as between the two of us, but there was a time when I went over and, um, I just introduced myself or whatever, She gave me a kiss on the cheek. And it wound up somehow making it into her reality show episode. And so my friends were calling me, say, hey, dude, I saw you on Nicole's law. So I didn't think anything of it. And, you know, I went about my life, my business or whatever, and got some great pictures that year.

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price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Cement Mobile for details. Literally because the derby is always the same day, the first Saturday in May, you know, so and this party's always on Friday. I was literally standing in the same spot that I was a year before that and probably pretty much every year prior. But an Anna Nicole was placed at the same table. And she gets out of this bus first though this big bus pulls up and I'm like what the hell is going on and it's like people are screaming and stuff it was like the Beatles had arrived or something and it was like what's happened and all of a sudden you see this big black bus go down the side with Anna's face on it and it said trim spa you know that was her trim spa era yeah yeah yeah yeah so you know and for those that don't know

I guess it's a diet pill that Anna was endorsed and so that was the era of diet pills because I was on diet pills then too. Yeah. Yeah. But the door to the bus opened up. And I saw like this diamond ring fly out and like t-shirts started flying. Like she was throwing t-shirts off and like, I'm like, what is she doing? It's like she started hitting the ground running with doing promo. Like basically she was throwing trim spa t-shirts out to everybody. I feel like she was really good at promoting herself. Yeah. And like it says in the documentary, which we'll start talking about in a little bit. She, as soon as the cameras were on her, she came alive. Yeah. It was a different, it was, it was almost like a light switch. Like, you know, I think of, I was thinking about it earlier and I was

thinking what the, the transition of that, but, which we could talk about. But, yeah, so t-shirts were flying and people were screaming and, and there were a lot of celebrities there. And, and, all heads turned when she got off that bus. She had on this black dress, it was like low cut with these rhinestones, and she had, you know, her hair was all up, like jewelry just flashing. Every time I took a picture, it was flashing all over the,

you know, it was like, it was kind of like an aura, you know, like when she moved through the crowd. Yeah. And people were like, but I mean, I was still in the mode because I had a job to do. I had like several jobs to do. So I was like, I really wasn't like, reading too much into it other than like that wow but also the transition of the year prior to that

right she had and and lost all of that weight you know and now she's this diet pill spokesperson but she's still people are still talking about her even more she's like just literally reinvented herself she was polarizing it and and also like when i saw her in 2004 i thought she was it was very distinctively different than she was in her guest days, but it was a total different kind of beautiful. It was just, it was weird. It was almost like a different person, but a different era for her. Yeah. And, and, but I also think she was exuding something like some different energy, you know, like if you believe in like energy. Of course. Yeah. And I, I, it wasn't like, oh, hi, nice to meet you when I talk to her. It was like, you know, she was bubbly and she was, and actually,

actually after the fact, video kind of came out of this. And so it exists of actually the time in 2004 where she actually turns to her attorney who was on her reality show. Howard. Yeah. And she says, who's that? And he says, oh, that's Larry. And she's like, who? And it's really loud in there.

And he goes, Larry. And she goes, and then she still didn't hear him. So she asked again in this video. And Howard says, who cares? You've had such a great year. And he was like pumping her up for like her, you know, that was part of his job, you know. But it was weird that she was going out of a way to ask. And I was like, after I've seen that since.

But at the moment, I still didn't think anything about it. You know, so she had this table all set up and everybody, you know, booze is flowing and everything's going. And people are having a good time. And, you know, Kid Rock was on the stage. And like, there's all these performances. People just get up and start jamming for no reason. And so she was all into the performance and stuff, but she was watching me take pictures of her.

And she was a master at not being obvious, but giving me the poses and stuff that she thought that I needed. Right. So it's kind of cool because I'm like, okay, she gets this because it's like we were having a photo shoot. But she's flirting with you. Well, you know, honestly, it goes back to confidence again, I guess. You know, I didn't think that.

You didn't think you had a chance with Anna Nicole. Never in a million years. I would you did what I ever ever in my mind think that like I literally in fact I was so embarrassed because like she handed me a drink or something off this table and I don't know what I was drinking but I and so I was drinking on the job which was probably dangerous taking pictures and whatever it's right you don't work for them anymore do you do you still work for them you know I don't work for them but I'm my own boss but like at the same time like I you know that's gone it was a different era a different time you know drinking on the job but yeah so I I I picked the drink of a up and it's in this video too. And I like literally drink and I don't drink much. So it didn't, it's like heavy bourbon or something. It was like, and I'm going to spit it out. But when I look at my reaction on the video that I've seen now, I look like, you know,

Don Knott's on Three's Company. Yeah. You know, like some bubbling fool or something. And like, I don't know what it was, but she laughed. Aw. And women do love men that make them laugh. That's what I loved about my husband. Yeah.

And I mean, so something about that moment, I guess. I got another kiss. that this was a little bit different than the first peck on the cheek or whatever, you know. And I said to her, I said, you know, I'm going to be taking pictures tomorrow, and I just wanted you to know that I'll be around. So I'm not going to bother you or whatever and whatever.

And I got this call from Anna's attorney who said, Howard, who said, Anna's going to be down the gift shop shopping for her derby hat and some things if you want to, you know, take pictures. Like, yeah, yeah, you know. So my editors, I knew were to eat it up. So I was like, got down there. I got there and she was wearing this tank top that said Anna Nicole on it.

And she, I'm sorry, sorry about that. Okay. It's too early to start. No, it's okay. I can imagine how you feel inside. But I, I, it's weird because I see that in my head, the photograph that I took of that. Because my brain thinks like a photographer. So I think in my mind, when I think about these things,

I see the pictures that I took. So anyway, so we're going to. No, you're okay. This is a complete safe space. I trust. We'll be crying with you by the end of this interview, I promise. Mimi's already crying. But anyway, so she, super bubbly, like, you know,

and, you know, and she was, walking around this hatch store or whatever. It was kind of like a pop-up shop or whatever you call it. And she said, what do you think about this hat? When do you think about this hat? We went through the aisle and stuff.

And she got to this one hat and she tried it on. And I had already seen her reality show. So I knew pink was her favorite color. And so the hat that she had asked me my opinion was pink. And I said, that's it. She put it on.

I was like, that's it. you know because like it looked great on her and she had not she wasn't dressed ready ready for the derby yet but she just had her jeans in a tank top and stuff on so um took some photos didn't think much of it um and i got ready for the big derby race that next day and or that same day actually a couple hours later and um you know kim kuttrell from sex in the city was there and i was trying to get a picture of her and you know and she i was like can i get a picture you know i don't go up and stalk people and say, so I was talk to their publicist and stuff and tell them who I'm working for and stuff. And she's like, and Kim Kutrell turned to me and she's like,

are you any good? And like, like, Samantha. You know, like, you know, she said it just like that. I was like, oh, wow. I picture Kim, Kim, Ketrel being how Samantha is. I feel that's very true to life. Yeah. And it was like, it was like, it was like kind of surreal. And I was like, you know, and then Jessica Simpson was there. And, you know, she wasn't near as friendly as Anna. And she was tied up with, I guess she was married to Nick LaShea at the time. And they were doing that Newlywoods or whatever. And so I was kind of just observing the room or whatever. And then it was weird.

It was like the sea parted. And I looked down in this hallway. And it was like a moment out of like Baywatch, you know, where they were there on the beach. Or maybe it was just in my mind or whatever. But I saw that hat come, come um i i saw it come down the aisleway and i was like um there there she is i was like wow you know and i didn't see her outfit yet but i we were she was getting closer to me or whatever and

people were just like mobbing her and stuff and she stopped and i literally got my camera out and i zoomed in to see like you know what i could see and um because i had forgotten what my job was after i mean i would too i would too if i saw Anna Nicole coming towards me yeah And so anyway, so she came closer and she had on this pink and kind of like low-cut dress and these gloves. And she looked kind of like a debutante. Like, you know, like her big hat and she was playing, you know, the part. And it was just not to overplay it or kind of over-emphasize it because I've said it before, like the previous night, the energy was different. Right.

It was like, it was like she was just kind of like, it was just like rolling off. off of her good aura, you know, and people wanted just to be, and I mean, like, the stars were aligning for you guys, that perfect storm, and then also she was on momentum from all the, you know, stuff that she was doing. But she, you know, she was still shooting her show at the time. And I think maybe her show possibly the series could have ended, but she was shooting specials. And so this was part of a special that was rolled into like her, makeover special.

She went up and cussed out the disc jockey Howard Stern in the same episode. And then she comes to the derby, you know, so. Yeah, just so we can, for people who are listening, when we talk about her attorney, Howard K. Stern, it is not Howard Stern, the disc jockey. No, not at all. And Howard Stern, the disc jockey will be quick to tell you that is not me. He's like, no, no, no. I'll actually see him on Tuesday or Monday.

I'm sitting down for an interview with him, so I'm excited. Yeah. So I lost my thought. So you were talking about how the sea parted. Yeah. She just had this energy exuding off of her. Yeah. So she, it was just weird.

Like people autographs, pictures, and she never said no, not to one person. So it took her forever to get down this hallway where she was. And then there were Rosa tables. And she sat down at this table. And I had, there were some seats. that we're missing. I really wasn't supposed to be sitting down, but I was talking to people, and I was tired. So eventually, after she made her way and there was all this hubbub, and, you know,

Kid Rock was on one side, yelling at her about her cameras, turn off your effing cameras, and she was yelling back, and he's like, your bodyguard's overdressed, and she's like, and she's like, you know, screaming back at him and they got into it. But it was like... Good to see old Bob hasn't changed. But it's weird, but it's weird. But it was... was making good stuff for her TV show. Right. And along with just crazy stuff was happening, she was getting up. And by that time, she started having a few drinks. Right. And there were tequila trays comment and all this stuff.

I looked over at one point, and like some girl was like doing a shot off of her chest. Yeah. And of course, I got a picture of that too, you know. And it just so happened to be. But during all that, she, I spoke to her again. And I was sitting. I was sitting. the table behind her, she had her back turned to me. Her son Daniel was there. They was kind of neat to watch the two of them and they were, you know, she was helping and pick horses and things and

Tibet on and just a lot of chaos and noise. And she reaches behind the table and she grabs my hand, she puts her hand out and she's got this gigantic like diamond rock on these, over top of these pink gloves.

And she was like, you know, and it was like blinding me and she's like grabbing my hand. She goes, come here, come here, come here. And I got up and she got up. And then she starts squeezing on my butt. And I'm like, my face turned beat red because when I looked up, I had three reality show cameras pointed out. Right. And I mean, she was in the crack. Yeah, I've seen the video. Oh, you've seen it? Oh. I've seen the video. Like, yeah, it's like how I wish Jay would let me rub his butt. All right. I mean, she was groping you. Actually, my daughter saw that and she said it was cringe.

Yeah. Oh. But, yeah, so I said something stupid. Like there's nothing back there to grab or anything I could think of just because I was like so embarrassed, you know. And so she was just having fun. And, you know, at the time I said, last year you were here and you gave me a kiss on my cheek or something.

I don't know, something stupid I said. And I go, my girlfriend wiped it off because she was mad. She goes, oh, come here. We'll do it again. And she goes, I need a picture of this. And she turns and she tells people to take the pictures of us, you know. And so she starts kissing me and like, and her bodyguard's sitting there, you know, like this. He's got like one of those Janet Jackson hitsets on.

Was it Mo? Did she have Moe at the time? Yeah. And that's a whole other thing. But yeah, yeah. So he was there and like, you know, and I was like, I was like, I wasn't worried about anything. But I was like at the same time, I'm like, I did have a job to do, you know. Right.

I mean, but you're literally getting groped and just immersed. and Anna Nicole. So, I mean, at that time, I can understand why you wouldn't want to do your job. Yeah. It was, it was definitely a different day at work that day. But, um, did you have the same girlfriend at this time? No. Okay. No. And, and, uh, it didn't mean I didn't call her and tell her that I got another kiss. Yeah. Just turn, just twist it a little bit more. It's like, you know, that kiss you wiped off last year. I got another one. I got more this year than that But, no, but like, so after that, you know, that my pictures came out. It was like another, I wrote another article for USA Today, different magazines and stuff.

Well, wait, how does that night end? She's rubbing your butt. Well, honestly, so, I was, it was weird because I am so, I am so shy when it comes to like that. I'm not, I'm really an introvert. Never in a million years would I think I have the courage to even talk to Anna Nicole. I wasn't really going to ask her on a date or anything. But in a way, I kind of did.

I was like, hey, so some, and this is all captured on video I was embarrassed about it later when I see it, you know, today, because I was so cheesy. You were shooting your shot, baby. And I was like, you know, hey, some friends are going down to whatever club. And, you know, if you think you want to go and she's like, yeah, yeah, you know. But it was kind of like I didn't, I didn't want to like be pushy. I didn't know, like what was going on. I really, you know, like I said, confidence wise, I didn't read a bunch into it.

And I was like, okay, another night, that was fun. That was cool. and I didn't know if I would ever see her again. And so... Were you hoping that you saw her again? And did you want something more out of that? Honestly, like, I... Yeah, I've been Santa Nicole, you know.

Right. But again, I still, because I was watching her, like, you know, some girls doing shots off of her with tequila and some guys talking to her. She's working a room, yeah. I feel like I was just one of the people that got lucky to be in that kind of orbit, you know. And it was like a fun type of thing. It doesn't mean like, like, I still remember it. like wow and I was like taken back by it but I don't know that I still with everything considered

of how she was acting with everybody that it was like anything special right right you know you didn't feel so I goes back to your confidence though yeah I mean what do you say I'm working on it I'm working on it we'll talk yeah but at the same time I like the the the the pictures came out from that and like you know and it was positive stuff for Anna like you know how great she looked And I think her attorney saw it, took note of it. And I got a call for him and said, hey, Anna's going to be at this kids camp for charity for kids that are impacted by HIV. And would you mind coming and taking pictures? And I was like, sure, you know.

And I literally. Do you think that was Anna having him call you? I don't know. Honestly, I don't really know. I know that his job was amongst many. things, you know, her attorney, you know, kind of was her publicist, manager, everything, was to kind of keep things going for her. And I think because she had always gotten a negative, not always, but a lot of the times got negative press. Right. And so what you were doing for her

was giving her positive. I want to think that's probably why I got the call. And so like I literally started throwing things in my bag, you know, when I got the calls like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. and, you know, took off to Nebraska and met the whole crew. And she had an entourage there. Her assistant was there. Her son was there. Our dogs were there. She's back on the bus again.

She had some other people there, you know, floating around. And I was watching her that week because it wasn't like the diamonds, all the makeup. It was really like a stripped down version of her. Which I think was the most beautiful version of her. Yeah, it really was. It was like, I was like, why? wow, when I saw her with no makeup on, I was like, how can you get pretty? You know, it happens.

It's like, you know, I don't mean that in any down a disrespectful way. No, I get it. I'm the complete opposite. I look like a walrus when I don't have my face painted on. No, she, Anna was like, I'm telling you, when she didn't have makeup on, she was so gorgeous. It was just, it was kind of refreshing to see because we were kind of in the sticks somewhere. I went through cornfields like for hours just to get wherever I was. And all these kids were like, you know, um,

you know, around the circle and she was meeting these kids. And I don't even know if any of the kids actually knew who she was. You know, because they were so young or whatever, I think by the end they all knew who she was because there was just a ton of hijinks that happened. But like, but watching her in those moments spend time with these kids and she started getting attached to like a lot of these kids. And she would want to spend time and she would get contact numbers for them and stuff.

And it was just such a different type of Anna. If I were writing that story, which I did write something about it, and I took pictures and we were there for like a week, it was kind of like you would never think that that was a headline that would come out from Anna, like her spending time with these kids and stuff. And it was, I really, that was when, like, not just the derby and how pretty and like kissing and groping, whatever happened with that, it was that moment that I started feeling like, okay, this is, she's, there's something special about her, you know.

So tell me about that week. Personally, work aside, was she happy to see you when you showed up to, when she first saw you and knew that you were there to take pictures? How did she react? She was really nice. I mean, I didn't know, you know, if she would remember me. I like, I, you know, I didn't know. You know, like, honestly, like, when you're, when you see the volume of the amount of

people that, like, she interacts with, I'm sure you guys get up. Oh, yeah. My husband, she's a Sagittarius. She was a Sagittarius, right? I believe, December... November 28th. Yeah, she's a Sagittarius. My husband's a Sagittarius.

They remember everybody's names. They are people. I mean, it is crazy. I call my husband a politician. He's not really a politician, but the way that he shakes hands and kisses babies all day long and, like, we'll remember people from 10 years ago,

it's wild. And Anna strikes me as the same type. Like, she might not remember people's name, but she just always makes people feel so welcome. Everybody felt like they knew her. Exactly. And she was relatable and I think that's what people gravitated towards her, not just because she was pretty,

but also I think because... She was warm. She was, but during that week at camp, I mean, you know, I don't know if it's just, you know, the way I'm wired or whatever. I literally, A, was focused on my job, but also I was excited to see her, you know, at the same time. And to be completely honest, honest like, you know, I'm, you know, at the time I'm, I'm, I'm making good money, but like,

I know I'm going to make good money off of this. You know, this is not, I'm not, you know, the pictures, you know, I already had, like, exclusive. It's a job. Yeah, it's my, it's my, it's what I do, you know. You're like, you're kind of like becoming her personal photographer in this moment. It started, it started, it started to feel like that, you know, after this event, during that event and after that event, it started to feel like that. But I, I, um, I, um, just I sure remember just kind of like playing it cool, you know, and because again, she was she was also shooting a special Anna goes to camp. Right.

So, you know, and there was, there were storylines that were kind of like, I don't know if they were preset, but they were in the works and they were, I didn't want to be in the way of it. Were you also ever scared that you would become a storyline with her too? Was that kind of why you regarded? No, you know, not really, but the first day in journalism school, they tell you, don't, you know, don't become the story. You know, don't, don't, it's hard when you cross that line, you know.

So I was trying to be like, because I was still doing written work on her at that time. Right. And, you know, flirting aside or whatever, like I had a story to write. It wasn't like I was doing this hard hitting like 60 Minutes piece. It was a, you know, a fluff story for a weekly magazine. Right. But I still wanted to stay, you know, like, you know, neutral and kind of just observe. Yeah.

And so basically that's what I did. But I, I remember. after the week progressed and there were activities and stuff, she started asking me to do the activities with them. And so, like, I would put my camera back down and I would like start repelling. And I'd start, you know, they had like a day where they would do a talent contest. And she was Whitney Houston. And she was like, she had this white dress on.

She was going to be like in the bodyguard. And then her bodyguard comes in and rushes and saves her. And then the camp told her her dress was too, you know, too low cut. And there was a whole thing for the reality. show that kind of played into that. So there was a lot of stuff going on and I just kind of tried to stay out of the way. But since she invited me into that space and she's like, why don't you come in? And even though they were filming, I was hesitant shy. I didn't like go out of my way to like start talking to the camp, you know, and make myself a presence in it. I just, you know,

it was like kind of cool hanging out and doing stuff. And we got to the last night of the camp and it started to wind down. They had activities and they reflect on like how the camp changed you. And it was really, it was a, for me, Anna aside, it was like a really kind of moving week to see the kids and how they, it was either kids that were, um, that had HIV or were impacted by it in some way. And, um, that to, to, to have them in a, a setting where they felt safe. And to watch, you know, Anna interact with them and how she was doing. It was a weird, it was a, it was a, it was a cool thing. And I think in my mind, she got points because I thought,

whatever you've heard about this girl previously, you know, this is a little bit different than what you've heard, you know. Yeah. You know, Anna always was the gold digger. You know, we'd always hear things like out of control, train wreck, things. This was so far from that. Right.

Was she sober during these trips that you were on? Yeah, I mean, aside from, like, well, up to this point, yeah, I mean, I'd only seen her like a few, times, but the camp stone colds over. Okay. And like there was no drinking allowed at the camp. I mean, she was like, I mean, she was digging in doing art and painting and like, I mean, and it was enough to you could see it was kind of exhausting her.

Like she worked herself up even though she was filming and doing some. I felt like she still, it was just special. It's hard to explain. But after that, we left and we went to a retirement center and where she started just talking to all these like the old people and the retirement center and she brought her dogs and was to pass them around and that part wasn't filmed so it wasn't like this was a setup for something it was like some just random moment you know and and i just remember watching her going wow you know like this is something different and something cool and um i was getting my stuff together because

they were getting ready to get on the bus and um she was in her room and i came into her room and she was dipping lollipops in pickle juice. Oh. And I go, what are you doing? She goes, having some pickle pops. I go, what? She goes, pickle pops? I'm like, oh, okay.

So I never heard of that. She goes, why don't you travel? And I'm like, all right. And, you know, so I was trying one. And her attorney's buzzing around. And, like, people are trying to get all of her assistants trying to pack her stuff up. Dogs are barking. And she's signing some autographs for people to give to them before she leaves as, you know,

kind of a parting thing. and you know and um i was like uh eating this pickle juice something or whatever and she's how it had it taste you know that at first wasn't great but then she she decided she wanted to play a game with the pickle pops so she put her pickle pop in her mouth and she told me to twist it in my mouth so we were playing like spin the bottle with a lollipop so um it was just like she was kind of a kid at heart. She's very childlike. Yeah. And out of that, the pop dropped. And then, of course, there was some, a couple more kisses and stuff. And then, you know, I was getting, and then I got a a couple little bad looks over my shoulder from, you know, like, you know, the entourage, like,

oh my God, what is, you know, that guy doing, get him out of here or whatever. And so I didn't want to wear my welcome out. And I was like, you know, thank you so much for this opportunity. And I appreciate it. and I'm, you know, I'm going to turn this stuff in. And I think you'll like it. What you did this week was great. And she was leaving and she goes, here, let me write you one of these. And she wrote to Larry and I was like trying to figure out what she, right? And I was like, and she hands me this.

It's like her, an 8 by 10 like glossy promo shot of her trim spa stuff with like a, she's like basically shirtless with a towel holding up to her. And I read it and it says to Larry, my pickly pop. And I'm like, P-I-C-K-L-A. It was spelled wrong. It's like, and it was like, all right. And then below that, it said love Anna Nicole. And I was like, oh, thank you so much.

I appreciate that. I'm like, I'm going to put that in my room. And, you know, I was like still embarrassed and not going to want to say. And it was like we were like 18 years old. Like that's how we were maneuvering through this, you know? And so basically she gives me this and I said, well, you know, hope to hear from me some time and if there's anything else coming up. She goes, oh, hold on a second.

And she sticks to the sharpie and she starts writing these numbers down. And she wrote her number on the picture. And I was like, what's that? And she's like, I was trying to play dumb. I was like, what's that? And she's like my number. And I'm like, oh, I'm sure it's the wrong number. She goes, well, call it, dummy.

So I called it. And of course, it's ringing right there. And so she's like, and she goes, well, now I got your number, huh? And so like, and I was like, yeah. And again, you know, I went home, did my thing. It's my story came out. Okay, hold on, though. So you walk out of this room.

You have Anna Nicole's number. How are you feeling in that moment? You know, honestly, the whole week was such kind of crazy and emotional with the kids. And, you know, and it was a contrast from the, Derby, which was crazy, and this was kind of like low-key, but like still things were going on. And I don't know, I might be just dumb. I just, I was, I did, I still thought it was cool. Yeah. And I thought I liked this girl, you know, but I didn't, sending any U-Up texts at 2 8, 8, 2 o'clock in the morning or anything.

No, because honestly, I, I, I went home and I was scared to call it because I thought maybe she just kind of felt guilty about, and gave me the number. You know, I feel, I, I just feel like I wasn't entitled to it, you know? And I still felt like part of me was like, not that I was working for her, but I had just done this story and stings. And I was like, this is, I was in my head thinking, you know, that my journalism teacher was talking saying, you know, don't blur the lines. Yeah. So anyways, it was, it was fine. But I left. I went home and I was literally little ways down the road and I get this call from Anna. And she's like, do you want to go out to California? And work on some calendars and some photos for me. I want to jumpstart my store. And I'm like,

sure, you know, when? And she's like, right now. So literally, I wanted up going straight from there. I said, well, I said, listen, I've got to go home, but I definitely want to do this. And I went home and I said, can you give me, when will you guys be in town? And she's like, well, take us a few days to get there with the bus. Went home. she calls and she's like, well, there's something has come up. I need you to go to Vegas. So I wound up getting rerouted to Vegas.

She had a party out there. And after all that, I wound up going back to her house from all that. And so it was like a, it was like this whirlwind thing that I didn't know what was happening, to be honest. So let's pause right there

because I want to ask a couple questions. Being around her crew and seeing her, how they all interacted and stuff like that. What was the vibe that you got from like Howard K. Stern and just her crew that she had around around her? Did it feel like they were very enabling? Did it feel like they were controlling?

Or at this point in time in the story, was it kind of like copesthetic? You know, still at this time, it was kind of so early that I was, you know, I was kind of getting used to what the hierarchy was. Right. And knowing that like who did what and what was expected of this person, I think that I don't know at the beginning that I got the idea that anybody was controlling her. I think that people were, a lot of people were telling her things like yes answers to everything. Right.

Like, you know, yes, men. And, you know, oh, you know, should I do this job? Yes. You know, this is going to be great for your career. Do this. Yeah. And it was like a lot of advice that she was getting from people. There was also like, you know, a lot of people jockeying for her attention.

Right. You know, all the time. And everybody, honestly, that was around her, I felt like had a different interest. Right. You know? Somebody. Yeah. Somebody, it was just different ulterior motives all around.

Yeah. And I don't mean that always really in a negative way. Like somebody could be like in love with her or obsessed with her or they could be in it. or just dedicated to her. Right. You know, but she had people at her beck and call. Do you feel like Howard K. Stern was one of the people who was obsessed with her and in love with her? At first, I didn't think that because I knew what she told me about him.

But it wasn't until I didn't get a feel for any of this stuff, like in detail where I started making like mental, of like what people's agendas were, what they thought about different things, until I actually came to her house with her. She said, come on and I brought some of my stuff out. I still had a place back home. I didn't like get rid of my stuff. I wasn't moving in.

I was just coming out there to work on the calendar. So this was the first night that you guys had spent together where we paused. The first time that we were in in Los Angeles and together. Yeah. Take me on that journey the first night you guys are together. And then we'll kind of enter. intertwine it with what you learned by being in her house.

Well, backing up in that trip at Vegas was one of the first times that we were together together. I had actually, you know, the fastest version of it is, is that I actually... We don't want the fastest version, Larry. We do not want the fastest version. So actually, I was... To get ready to go to that trip that put me to Vegas to meet her, I actually fell in the bathroom and I, like, hurt my back in Kentucky and I didn't think I was going to make it. Oh, no.

literally getting ready to cancel the trip. How did you fall in the bathroom? I was running into the bathroom, slid in some water or something, and just fell down straight on my back and crashed. And I was like, okay, this is, it's over. Larry, poor baby. You're just having a rough go over here.

So I, I, um, I got, I was like, I'm going to cancel. No, I'm going to try to do this. So I got on the plane. I went, I get to the, um, hotel in Vegas. They were at the hard rock in Vegas. and I let her assistant know that I'm there, come up to this room, whatever I was told. I got a, you know, I'm having a suitcase or whatever.

And I get there and I go down this hallway and it's like this gigantic suite or whatever. And I get to the back room and Anna's in this bed. She's in the bed watching like Nightmare and Elm Street or something. You know, it was like a scary movie. She's like, oh, hi. And like literally, because I see things like from a photography standpoint, she was in a totally white bed with white sheets, pillows and everything.

And all you saw was her face, like in all of that. So in my mind, I was framing up a shot. But I remember it clearly because I was like, you know, and without thinking for a millisecond, I'm like, wow, I'm in Anna Nicole's bedroom, like where she's at. And she saw me kind of walking where with my suitcase. and she's like, what's wrong? I go, I'm sorry. I'm like, I hurt my back.

And, oh, you know, she's like, Kimmy gets something for him for his back. And I don't know. They gave me something. I don't know what it was, but I, I conked out for like, well, I was getting sleepy. Oh, so they just handed you a pill and you were like, did you a question, I just took it?

I don't think it was like anything like major. Like, I don't know really what, really remember what it was. But like, anyway, I was like, go get him something for his back. And I'm like, she's like, let me call him massage, the masseuse up here for you or whatever. whatever. And I was like, what's going on right now? I'm like, where am I supposed to put, like,

can I take this to my room first? She goes, oh, just sit it over here. And I go, where? She goes, by the bed. And I was like, oh, okay. So I was like, I put my suitcase down. The next thing I know, someone's knocking at the door. There's like, this lady coming to give me a massage. I'm like, I'm like, trying to figure out, like, she's like, well, just take your clothes up and come in here. And I'm like, so I'm like going back in the room and I'm like, I go, okay. And I'm like, I'm like, You notice Larry doesn't say no to anything. He's like not questioning anything. He's like, you know what?

We're just going to go with it. We're just going to do it. So I literally, I was literally going to take my pants off. And I was, I paused for a second. I turned her around. I'm like, oh shit, there she's on the bed. She's like, it's okay. I like small penises.

You can take your pants. I was like, what? Sounds like a challenge to me. Yeah, yeah. She wanted to challenge you. She sounds like she was a ballbuster. Yeah. And so after that, massaged over, whatever, and, like, I literally conked out, went to sleep, and I woke up.

It was like the next morning. Anna's still watching Freddie Krueger movies. Okay. Who passes out in bed next to Anna Nicole Smith? I don't know if it's something. That's what I'm saying. Like, say, I don't know if it was something that when I took it, I passed out. Right.

Or you were just so exhausted from the travel. Like, I literally couldn't move my back. Like, literally if she wanted to do anything, I would probably be like. Like, it was probably better than, like, nothing. happened that night? How did the back feel in the morning? It was, I was actually feeling better, but I had problems with it for a while, so after that happened they were getting... So she was

still watching... When I woke up, she was still watching Freddy Krueger. Like, it was like, I think she was on like the third or fourth trilogy. Here's something, like the movie or something. Wow. So, yeah, and she's like, how's your back feel? And I was like, where the fuck am? Like, where am I? Like, where am I? Like, I feel like

I was in a dream or something. Like, I looked back and I'm like, but I you know and again it was like I love that she laid next to you though yeah yeah and um and there was knocks at the door it was really chaotic it wasn't like even though we were in that room together dogs were being handed to her your dog wants to see you and like what did they say that or did you it was like you know and it's like but you know and the people here's your food and like the dog room service were coming for the dog and she's like can you sign that bill for the dogs and I'm like looking at the thing and like $800 for like steaks for the dogs and like bottles of like special water and stuff.

And I'm like I felt like I was in like I fell down like a rabbit hole or something. Yeah, like an acid trip. Yeah. And so anyway, like, you know, she had an event to do. I photographed that. We, we, that's when she asked me like, hey, do you want to come back to the house? And so I went back to the house. So when you woke up, did you guys make out?

Was there any hanky-panky? When was the first thing? Not really because after she woke up that morning, that's when like people knocking on door, people were coming in for fittings. There were people doing her hair, makeup, you know, and all that stuff. And I really kind of felt like when her assistant and some people came back in the room, I was like, I felt like. I've been in full home refresh mode lately because my house went from feeling cozy to feeling a little chaotic, stuff everywhere, no real storage, nothing matching. So I went on Wayfair and actually took the time to

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And so. Larry's got long game. We got not actually, no, I don't. That's why this is so, this, like. I'm totally playing with you. I think part of my life has been from even going back to like breaking into journalism, just being in that right spot. Yeah. Some people might say I was on the wrong spot.

No, but I think your intentions are pure. and that's why you end up in these situations because you don't have an evil spirit about it. Like you really just want to love people and, you know, show them in a good light. You're not trying to show these people in a negative light. And I think that, you know,

God in the universe has placed you in these people's lives for a reason. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I'm still, you know, like I'm, I'm, we took the bus back and... This is still in California, right? We're in Vegas and we're going back on this bus. Gotcha. and this trim spa bus and stuff.

And so it has all these bunks in it, you know, side to side. And, you know, and there's like a room in the back. And I grabbed one of the lower bunks. And they said you can take that one or whatever. Not the low bunk on the ground. It wasn't the low. Oh, okay. I mean, that's probably where I deserve to be because I was like the low man on the

totem pole as far as like the group. I was like they did you wrong if they put you on the bottom bunk. I was kind of like, I remember I was up like in the middle. And then I, Anna was getting her stuff. And of course, she was always being briefed on stuff. Like, tomorrow we're doing this. Tomorrow we're doing that. And like people were coming in.

And I was kind of like trying to stay out of it and stuff. And again, I still felt like I didn't earn my place on the bus. I don't know if that's just, you know. No, I get it. I understand that. And I was kind of like, I remember closing the curtains. And I was like trying to like, I was watching a movie in front of me that was on the bus. And finally I was like, what's going on here?

I still was in kind of disbelief that this was happening. Yeah. But I wasn't like, because I had been and I'd covered celebrities and stuff, I never had this situation. I think it helped me, like, deal with what I was, I wasn't like, oh, my God, you know, I'm in the thing. So it was like, I was real, kind of cool, probably not as cool as I was, you know, trying to act. But, you know, I woke up in the middle of the night and the bus is all jumping and stuff.

And, you know, and I opened my curtain and I look across, and Anna's in one of the bunks across the way and I'm like, wait, I thought, you know, she stays in the back, you know. And she's watching a movie and stuff and she's like, she just starts talking to me and stuff. And I was like in the middle of a text and stuff. And she's like, who you texting? And I'm like, oh, just back home to tell, you know, this girl to watch my stuff. What's, you got a girlfriend? What's her name?

You know, she was like getting involved in my story. And I was like, oh, no, not really. She's just a friend, you know, watching my apartment while I'm gone. And, you know, and she's like, oh, cool, okay. okay, you know, but I could tell she was kind of like, you know, it was kind of weird, you know. She's filling you out. Yeah, I think. And I was like, so I was like, you know, we were just talking and stuff and had like talk about, we were like talking over like stuff from like, you know, childhood and different things, not deep stuff. It was kind of like surfacey stuff, like, you know,

and I didn't really ask her too much about her stuff. She was kind of asking me, you know, about my family and different things. I was like telling her. And just like little conversation. and, you know, that happened. Nothing really major. We get to L.A. and she lived in Studio City, and the bus wouldn't go up her hill or her canyon or where she lived,

and so we stopped in this parking lot. And I remember getting out of that bus and thinking, are they going to blindfold me now? Like, where I don't know where I'm going to like the Batcave, you know, and like, you know, and it was, I had that weird just kind of like, you know, feeling. I saw it when you walked in here.

You're very suspicious. Like you like to know what you're walking into. Yeah, I, well, part of it's probably PTSD and stuff from like just crazy stuff happening from my situation. But yeah, I do like to kind of like, and I'm always scanning when my daughter's with me like a security guard. Like I scan around. Oh, you have to. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And I know the people that want to take pictures. I know the people, it's where I think because I'm ADD, but I'm also, I feel like I'm a little bit semi-intuitive because they say people that are ADD, you know. know, they have heightened, you know, senses. Awareness too. And I feel like that I read the room a lot. And I can tell BS when I see it. Oh, yeah. I can tell all the liars.

I mean, and so I do, I kind of scan ahead. But I was in this moment, I was still kind of like the new kid on the block, you know, and feeling like I didn't deserve to be there. And still kind of wondering why you are there too, I'm sure. I mean, you know, I had planned on going. home it didn't happen so you know now i'm in in los angeles at anna's house and um so we get into the house and um and i'm i'm thinking i've seen this house on the reality show i i you know and we were we would sit back on you know sundays or whenever came on and we would laugh at it you know the show and we would

hear some of the crazy shit you did and you know and like and you know and um it was you know it was you know just like you saw it on television, but there were actually, it's like the studio, there's like working light still set up. So like if you go under like a catwalk and there's like strips of light and there's cords and different stuff,

so like you kind of felt like you walked onto a hot set, but you were like in her house. Right. You know, and I was like, okay, this is different, but whatever. And who am I to say anything, you know? And we were up in this canyon, and I remember thinking, I mean,

this is nice, this is a cool house and, you know, whatever. and I was nervous still like, you know, and I, because it was kind of like when the door opened for me to come in, everybody's demeanor dropped, you know, not Annas, but everybody else, I felt like the mood was flat. And I was like, okay. And then Anna was telling her assistant, go do this, get Larry, show Larry this and whatever.

So Anna's room is upstairs. Just to pause you right there. Do you think they did it because they were jealous of Anna? as attention going to you? Yeah, honestly, at that point, I didn't know. I knew that, and I'm friends now, and we can talk about that later with all these people. But in that moment, I felt like they might have felt like they were threatened

because I was getting the attention from her that they wanted. Right, exactly. And I felt like that maybe it was just awkward, you know. Right. But at the time. So they were probably, you know, like, you know, What's going on with the situation? Yeah.

Trying to figure you out. So I remember taking my suitcase and I was going upstairs. And there's an office and two bedrooms upstairs. Downstairs was Daniel's room, the lowest level and an art room. And they kind of showed me around or whatever. So I'm looking around at the time that they're showing me going, well, where the fuck am I going to sleep? You know, like going thinking, you know, like, I don't see a bedroom that's open.

Yeah. And I'm like, my back's still fucked up. and I don't know about the couch, but I'm like, I guess I do what I have, I'm told to do, you know. Right. So I get upstairs with her and she,

she shows me, you know, this is my room, this is a, and I, you know, and we've, did you watch her show?

Of course. Okay, so remember when she had the big, the pink and white fluffy wall and I think, you know, a decorator did it for it, the show and stuff.

So, and there was like clouds on the ceiling with penises in the clouds. Yeah. And like all this, weird stuff. And then there's this gigantic pop art painting of like her oil husband on one side. And there's like all this stuff. Dogs are barking, yapping, you know, and stuff just hung everywhere, clothes and, um, and, um, real chaotic time, you know, when we first entered there. And I was like,

she's like, um, you could put your stuff in the office. And I was like, okay, I'm going to the office. She goes, but, you know, but you can stay in here. And I go, well, first I went in and I said, um, is is there like a thing I can put on the floor for there's like because there's a desk in there you know it wasn't that big and my my suitcase was in there but she also had extra clothes in there too there was clothes everywhere like racks and racks and rack so I was like okay maybe this is where I'm going to stay so I want to be respectful and I was like you know I was like you know is there something I put on the floor for um no and Anna said no you're going to stay in here with me I was like oh oh okay um yeah okay and uh yeah

So that's where I went. And so she was territorial about her closet. And I guess a lot of women, you know, are. I was like, I get it. So my stuff was put in one room, but I was allowed to stay in her room with her. And so I, you know, it was one of those things where, you know, I still was kind of a little bit disbelief. And I was honestly nervous, to be honest, because if you think about Anna Nicole, and like everything she was and and you know and seeing her all this time and not like that

I was like obsessed with her like growing up or what I knew I was aware of her and I thought she was like this beautiful just like Pam Anderson all these other women just like her and um but I I I don't know that um I didn't I still I don't even know you might think I'm the dumbest person in the world I still honestly thought she wanted to hang out and I know she was being flirt you know i'm not stupid but like at the same time i didn't want to i didn't know her enough to know where she was coming from right you know i'm not stupid i know like you get you're invited to the bedroom but also i was nervous there were so many different emotions going on i was trying to be like and there's so much chaos too so you're like i was walking on eggshells like you know in the house

kind of um her dog was sugar pie was like snapping in my ankles and like attacking me you know it was like you know and um but anyway so like things kind of settled in and we just started talking and like kind of like connecting and and and I learned a lot about her in in those next few days like you know and but she still as forward as she was out in public and like grabbing on me and stuff she didn't give the same vibe off where we were in that moment so like it wasn't like I thought well maybe I've done something wrong or maybe I'm like not like me she doesn't like me maybe you know i don't know you know so um but she wanted to talk a lot and she wanted to sit up and like watch tv and like paint stuff and do like crafts and like it was

like really weird and i'm like okay so i'm i'm playing along i'm like doing you know you're in bed fucking doing arts and crafts i mean i i still have a stack of paintings to this day from that But like, yeah. Yeah, it, it was just like, I feel like I was having fun. Like she was almost kind of honestly, though, I feel like in that room, the oil man's picture, and there was one on the dresser, and she started talking about him, and she started getting emotional about it. And to where I felt like there was something there that she hadn't let go of yet,

like that she wasn't like even interested in and anything else from me. I thought, you know, she's saying, she's saying one thing, she might be doing another, but then you see this real emotion from her about like how she felt about this man. And we're talking about her ex-husband. Yeah, she had already passed by then. He had passed in the 90s, I believe. And he, you know, was this crazy rich oil man.

And then she was fighting forever, you know, for his estate to get what she said. He promised her. and that was going on and on and on. And she had talked a little bit about that. I didn't get into too much because here's the problem. You know, when I first came to her house, she, you know, there was, there was, she was quick to let me know I was a member of the press.

And that in her head, she couldn't get past that in a sense. So she was kind of scared. A little skeptical, like, I think she liked me, and she knew she saw I had good qualities, I think. I don't know. But I think that she would, and maybe it was a jab or something,

she's like, oh, yeah, she goes, you know, you're a photographer, you're a reporter. I got to be careful what I say around you. And I'm like, no, you don't. And it took me a while to get over that hump of building that trust up with her. And I saw things, a lot of crazy stuff. I witnessed stuff in the house that just, and I also was privy to things that weren't like as,

crazy, but things that I'm sure any magazine would print if I wanted to talk about it. Right. You know, and I, and I felt like it was a test I was having to pass or something. Right. And I felt like. Which rightfully so on her part because, you know, she couldn't trust anybody. Sure. Everybody was, and during that era, I was trying to just have a piece of her.

Well, and she had gone, um, to your point, she had gone like to hospitals and people had called and said she's in the hospital. And then her medical chart was released. And then, you know, or she had, you know, stalk her ex-boyfriends who came to her house with a knife and was going to. So she had a lot of just crazy stuff happen. She also had a file photo in her house from different people that mailed crazy stuff and then she'd give it to security and they would have to vet it. And so I, like, she was extremely, I say paranoid, but also like she, some, some rightfully so and some a little bit because of her situation made her a little bit more extreme, you know, on the side of paranoia. or alert, I should say, you know, maybe both. Yeah.

In those moments that you guys were having those private conversations, what do you, what is something that you could tell the world was the biggest misunderstanding about her? Because you've actually got to spend one-on-one time with her alone. I think that, um, that in, in many ways that she was kind of misunderstood, you know, about so many things in her life because she projected this persona of Anna Nicole. And even though I called her Anna Nicole, I never called her any other name, you know, other than Anna Nicole. Her legal name was Vicky.

And so I felt like I was getting to know Vicky, but it was, you know, it was Anna that was when she went out. Yeah. And as soon as a light came on, as soon as that, last, you know, drop of lipstick one on. It was, it was, you know, it was almost like it was a different person. Yeah. You know, it was, it was wild.

Well, her idol, Marilyn Monroe, was the same way. And I think a lot of women that grow up idolizing Maryland, you know, you learn how to turn it on. And I think when she, what part of what Anna, her, in a way that she was misunderstood, I think her story is a survival story. You know, she was always in survival mode. And I think that what she did with the time she was here on earth is that she, she was a, she dreamed big, you know, she lived, you know, fast and hard in so many ways. But at the same time, she built this wall around herself and her outlet was to, perform for these people, for everybody.

And she told me once, she said, I gave myself to Hollywood. So she really believed that, you know, they had a lease on her life and that basically that that's why she signed every autograph. That's why she did what she did. But I think that this, you know, she was renamed Anna Nicole by the founder of Guess after she was in Playboy. Right. So that name for her was another outlet to be somebody totally.

different. Like an alter ego. It was. And I think that she went back and she was able to feel safe in that moment and get the things that she didn't get. She had a really fractured childhood family relationship with all of her, you know, I wouldn't say all, but a lot of her family. Her mom totally another crazy, you know, situation. Which I would like to touch base on, especially when we start talking about the, um, you don't know me documentary on net, that is an unauthorized documentary that you actually turned down. Yes. And why did you turn that down?

Well, the thing about it is with that at the time, listen, I have, if I had a dollar for every time somebody called me and said they're going to do a show about Anna Nicole and would we participate, you know, like, you know, there would be no worries, you know, in life. But, but the problem is, is that I have sat back and watched, you know, time after time. people kind of do the same show over. Right. The same cast of characters. You know, they go back through talk show transcripts of that time when Anna passed. And that was a time when, like, a lot of different vultures came out.

And they were rewriting history. People's checks that dried up. They went out and they'd say this or that. One day they'd say one thing. You'd be the greatest person. The next day, you know, you'd be the worst person or, you know, whatever. And the stories kept changing and involving. And nobody was, like, checking anything and vetting it.

Nobody was doing real job. journalism. No. And so what to me was it got a little bit. And you said that it was repetitive. People aren't vetting stories. Nobody was really, you know, checking into anything. Like, you know, in a lot of these past projects. And I got tired of seeing the same people. And, um, can we talk about some of the characters that were in here? Um, you know, at the end, they do bring up her mom. Yeah. And they do say, because you, you were just touching base on her mom so I kind of want to rope that in. Her mom says something in this documentary where she pretty much is shooting down everything that Anna has ever said about her and saying that Anna said,

well, mom, it's Hollywood. This is my life. When you talk to Anna about her relationship, what was her with her mother? What was her side of things that she told you? Well, that was one of the things that was a lot of the times early on the relationship when I went to her house, you know, that was off limits that you didn't talk. She's like, no, no, no. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. But it got to the point where when trust was built up and she started talking different things and disclosing things,

she would tell me some really crazy stories about her childhood and having to deal with her mom and things. And they were so crazy that I was like, you know, are these real stories or whatever? But I would see like the fear in her eyes and like the emotions that these just telling the stories would invoke. you know, in her. And so I didn't ever really push it too far on that,

but when she brought it up, I would definitely listen and talk. But the stories about her mom, the fact that here's the thing with the Netflix to back up. So the problem with the Netflix show was after, you know, seeing a bunch and being disappointed in a lot of the different projects and stuff, they

were, they came to me at a time when I was helping my mom through chemo and radiation. and they started coming on really strong and pitching saying, hey, we'd like for you to do this, we'd like for you to do that and stuff. And I said, well, you know what right now, it's not really a great time for me, but I'll tell you what I'm going to do for you. I said, I will tell you in a list, if you want to write down names or whatever, of who the good people are to talk to and who the bad people

and who really didn't play a partner life who's been on these other things. And that's why I'm leaning towards not doing this. And they were like, oh, oh, well, you know, and they got on the phone and a Zoom call with this, director and they were giving me the pitch that this was going to be a female director who would totally give Anna a totally different look about one of the most misunderstood iconic women in pop culture history. And I was like, well, now you got my attention, you know, but I'm still dealing with this personal thing with my mom. And so I said, I just don't know

if this is going to fit right now. And then it was kind of like, well, we can help you with your mom's cancer. We can help you. Are one of our producers or whatever's connected to a doctor's and stuff and they were a big cancer specials. And I was more worried about my mom at the time. So I was like, oh, my God, there's hope for my mom, you know, as I'm pushing her wheelchair, you know, through, you know, radiation and stuff. And I'm like, and she ultimately passed away after this. But like during this, like my focus was laser on her.

And I was really juggling, you know, still being a dad and taking down into school and all this things and different things that I was doing for her and trying to keep everything normal there. So it was a combination of things of timing, the right people. And it just, it just didn't work out. So then they started saying, how much would it cost for us to get you to do this? They knew I had a ton of archives that no one's ever seen. Right.

I had like all of Anna's journals that I discovered. I even discovered more recently. And it's like, they were like, wow, wow. And I had like videotapes, audio tapes and like things that no one has ever heard or seen that would totally show a complete like legacy piece, which was what they were talking about. Right. So when I actually said no and they were playing higher and lower, what would it take for you to do this? And let me just be honest, like, those things belong to Danny Lynn.

So if somebody wants to use those things, I'm not letting them use them without giving her something for it. Absolutely. Because those are her things. And rightfully so. And so why does anybody get to use and think they could do that for nothing? But I didn't really get into negotiations with them. They said, okay, we're going to go back to Netflix. We're going to do this.

We're going to come back to you. And I was like, okay. And I never called her back from them or anything. Wow. I think there was like a couple texts about, you know, they came back to me and said, it was no longer like, would you participate? It's this director got on the phone,

she's like, hello, love, it's, you know, so-and-so, I want to come over for a spot of tea. And, you know, like, it was like real chummy and stuff. And they were nice at first and stuff, but as I started pushing back and say, I just don't think this is going to happen, it was weird. I started seeing on Facebook, social media, different things,

a couple people that I had on the no list had posted the fact that they were going to be on the show. One person I didn't have on any list because they didn't really even know Anna that well, you know. I heard the name, but or whatever. And I went back to the producers and said, this is the reason why I'm not doing your show. This is a clear, here's the receipts.

You know, these people are saying they're doing it. So they were like, oh, no, this person could talk about this and this person could talk about that. Well, the person I said that person doesn't know Anna. They're like, well, that person could speak. to her reality show because they were on one episode. And I was like, okay, is that where we're going with a legacy piece?

Yeah, that's a hit piece. That's not the legacy piece. So I just, I said back and I was like, okay, you know, and I went back into daily life with my mom and everything I'm doing daily. And I was like, all right. So I guess over time back and forth, there were a couple communications.

I got a call from an auction company, which we did an early auction of Anna. So a few overflow things of Anna's and did some stuff with charity. and Anna actually had creditors, you know, when she passed away. So the court said some of the stuff, why don't you just get rid of and sell it? So we gave them some things that were like, you know,

the Bobby trendy couches from the reality show and, you know, some things. And a lot of fans got a lot of cool things. And it was kind of, it served, you know, a few purposes. But somebody in the production went to the auction company was asking for how much was made off the auction. And it turned into like they were investigating me. And I was like, what the, you know, like, I didn't make anything, you know, like, and literally like I, you know, was just felt gross, right?

Yeah, it really felt gross because I remember, like, I spent like $60,000 on a headstone for Anna in the Bahamas, you know, I think he said you went to, yeah, like I had that design in my hometown of Louisville. We flew it on FedEx over to the Bahamas, had a crane had to lift it off of the truck down, you know, place it in place. And, you know, when Anna passed away, her house was in, her mortgage was behind. You know, we'll get to like the bomb stuff later, but like, they turned her back on stuff.

And so like, I walked into like a lot of stuff that like I had to pay for. So to hear someone say like, you know, what is this or what is that? So they didn't really come out and accuse me of anything, but I was hearing from a lot of different people. Then the show actually hit a bump. That show was announced at one point.

And then Pam Anderson's documentary was announced way after that. Yeah. Well, like, you know, fast forward, Pam Anderson's show aired, was announced way after Anna's show. And I was hearing from people that they were having trouble getting people close to Anna to participate. Right.

So it was kind of like, you know, and so, you know, I didn't think anything else of it. I got a couple requests from that same director if I would license them photos of Anna and Daniel in the hospital that were circulated before in the press. And I said, if you can guarantee me that this is the show that you said it was going to be, when you pitched this to me,

then I'll think about it. Yeah, let me know. What do you want? And I said, she goes, all right, love, have a think on it. I'll get back with you and hung up. I knew then that this show was not going to be the show that they had told me that the show was going to be.

So, I mean, with all that being said, I sat back and then they started running promos for it. And I saw some of those people that I said, this person shouldn't be this person. Not all of them, but a lot of them there shouldn't have been. Like they had the sister of Howard, the attorney. That was going to be my next question is like, you know, how,

there's so much that we still have to unpack, but, you know, how are they going to have his sister? Like, did he authorize that for her to go on there? I mean, you know, I don't think so. He didn't really know that she was going to be on there. I think he don't have to, I guess, because it's a document and people are free to do whatever and say whatever, I guess. but like the thing is is that um it was like an uncle that wasn't close a person and they didn't

tell that some of these people like the the the um situations behind the the scenes with these people right this person was estranged and hadn't seen her since you know whatever this person you know met her a couple times it was just kind of like people were given they were elevated yeah and now when i i started seeing all that come out i was like wow and then i remember um the show came out and i didn't really want my daughter to see it. And I was like, because when I saw some of the people, I was like, okay, it's going to get, probably get ugly, you know, you know, on here. And I was like, I remember sitting back and I watched it one night when she went to bed. And I, I was like, I was like pretty much frozen. I was like, wow, when it got to different parts. Right.

You know, and it was a, the show was kind of a slow burn. So I was like sitting there going, okay, okay. And I, in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, selfishly I'm like, okay, they're going to get to me next. They're kind of, you know, I'm coming, you know, like it's going chronologically here. And so it's something's coming. But like the show, the problem that I had with the show was for two things. One is Anna's fans reach out to me all the time. And there's tons of them all over the place.

Oh, still, for sure. And they still love her and they hold her in high regards. And people know that she wasn't perfect. And they, they know. That's why people love her. Yeah, and I think when people were, literally, they're just waiting for a new photo that no one's ever seen. And they all fight over it on Instagram and they start watermark and stamping. That's mine, that's mine, you know.

And so like when this came out, people were like, oh, my God, there's this new Ann and Nicole thing. This is going to be crazy. And everybody had high hopes for it. But the problem was the two main problems that I had with the show was that they took the, the, they used the thought that there was a girl who danced with Anna in a club. Missy, right? Was that her name? Yeah, that was going to be my next question is she said that she was Anna's assistant,

that she was in a sexual relationship with her. And here's the thing that I've learned because I, you know, that I'm sure we'll get to later, but like I don't want to ever say that Anna didn't have a relationship with someone that predated me because it's, unless she told me otherwise or I have some kind of written proof or something in her archives.

And there's a lot, you know, like in her journals and stuff. But I don't want to take that part away from that girl that said that. The problem that I had with what that girl said and that what the show was totally wrapped around and framed around was that Anna hijacked her life.

Right. And took every story that was about this girl, the most, you know, crazy, nasty, tawdry things that you could think of... She said her childhood. She said that Anna was... stealing her childhood story, which I thought was really kind of crazy to say about somebody. Yeah. And honestly, like, I was like, what? First of, I'm like, who's this girl? Because I've

never heard Anna even, you know, she never mentioned her. Not that she would mention everybody from her past, but I know a lot of the people, you know, from her past. And I was like, okay, this is weird, you know, and I was watching as this whole show was framed around, you know, Anna supposedly hijacked this girl's life. And I'm like, it kind of made it sound like kind of like single white female movie, you know? Right. And I'm like, to me, it was a bunch of people who were in love with her and obsessed with her, even her own family members. Well, I mean, I'm, that it's interesting that you say that. I mean, I just because I'm like, why are these people getting a platform? Right. For this show. And the brother didn't even seem like he knew anything about her.

Who's that? Her brother. Yeah. So like literally, I think, you know, I, I don't want to like, what I'll say to this? You don't want to discredit. Well, I don't want to discredit, but I also want to be sensitive because I know how it feels to be in the shoes of saying that you weren't in a relationship with, you know, Anna, or you didn't do this. So I want to be sensitive to those people. I understand. But I will say to you that based on everything that we have in Anna's archives, it paints a totally different picture from what every one of these people are saying. Right.

And this predates this girl and it postates this girl. Wow. So if Anna was, you know, hijacking a story, how can she hijack the story that she wrote years before she met you? You know, I have her stuff way back when she's still Vicky. Yeah. I have her school stuff when she was a kid talking about her biggest dreams. I have all kinds of things that like,

if I were to have done the show with Netflix, that it would have been a totally different show, not because I would have tried to like, you know, manage it or whatever. Right, but she's written her own story. They had the opportunity for her to tell her story herself. Exactly. You know, long after she passed. And it was such a unique story because whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Michael Jackson, all this stuff, and all those people left things behind.

But the things that Anna left behind, because one, she was a hoarder and two, she kept every single thing. I mean, I have. If you watched the reality show, you knew she was a hoarder. Yeah. And I mean, and it's been my job to kind of be the curator of that stuff for my daughter all these years. And so basically I've gone through it, and I'm still finding stuff. I'll open up like an old purse. You know, Danny Lynn might say,

Dad, that's not in style really. But I, you know, I don't want to offend, you know, mom. She's so sweet. And I'm like, honey, it's whatever you want of this stuff. You know, like, so basically like of that stuff. Save it, though, because those vintage purses will come and she'll trust me. She'll want them later on in life. Well, it's weird because five years ago I asked her questions about storage.

And it was like, where's Daniel's Pokemon cards? Or, you know, like 10 years ago. that's what she wanted like the video games and because his stuff's there too you know yeah and um and we'll talk about how you inherited all of that stuff once we get to you know but anyways going back like to the Netflix

and and that the promotion of it it promised like these bombshell revelations one of them was the girl Missy who said that basically you know Anna hijacked my life and then they said and then in the final fourth you know quarter of the show we're going to have the bombshell of them all that tells why Anna was the way she was.

And that was a video of Anna's mom. And the video, like you said, it was like basically Anna saying that she made everything up and that good stories don't sell as well as bad stories. Right. Well, they left out a few things, you know, from that, you know, discussion in the tapes and the promos of that. For starters, that video from her mom, her mom had long passed since after that. her mom filmed that video in retaliation to Anna being upset that after Anna's son died,

her mom came down to the Bahamas and did a bunch of photo ops in the Bahamas. I remember that. And it made Anna furious. In fact, there was a whole, there was a whole Entertainment Tonight video that have now been labeled the Mommy Dearest interviews that Anna comes out and she just tears into her mom. And that's because, and she says, And you came down here and you laid your fat ass on my grave. And, you know, and, you know, I just think that that wasn't like the problem between them.

There was long problems. Yeah, long childhood trauma. But when Anna, when Anna's mom, when Anna, when Anna son Daniel passed away, Anna, Anna, you know, I wasn't around at that time, but I remember, when Anna would open up about her family, and we had those moments where I felt like it was safe for her and she felt like it was safe to talk to me about it, she would long for her mother.

And I actually tried to play peacemaker and say, hey, why don't you call her? And she would just start shaking. And that wasn't on the table. So I would go as far with it as I could. Because for me, like, I come in from the South and like we get together, you know, everybody gets together on, you know, holidays things.

And Anna, I felt like that was a part of her that was missing when I met her. That it was just like she was kind of on autopilot. Yeah, she was trying to create her own family around her. She was collecting. Like, I felt like I was a part of a collection. You know, like she pulled me into, like, you're going to be this. And you're going to, you know, like she had a role in her mind that everybody was. So in the documentary, they actually say that Anna had sought out,

and this is going to tie back into you guys as really. relationship, that she was seeking a father. She wanted to get pregnant. When you guys, you know, are having these conversations and you guys are getting to know each other and we're on this journey, did you guys talk about having a baby together? Oh, sure, sure. So, um, obviously like, you know, as things became intimate, like, you know, like we're, I'm literally in our room every day, basically, you know, and we're literally a couple, but I can't tell anybody, you know, And, you know, and still having the tensions from the outside, you know, outside the room, really, you know. Basically, you know, we talked about having kids.

Anna thought it was, well, one of the first nights I was with her, she said to me, I think that you were sent here by my husband as an angel to protect me. And I don't know if it was the biggest pickup line in the world, you know, or what, but then she was reduced to tears. And it was a time when, like, you know, I'm pretty modest for like, it was a time when like things could have like heated up in the bedroom, but it was like that stopped that moment because she's crying about her husband. Right. So I'm like it was one of those things that I had to deal with. Like, you know, like, you know, and, you know, it's like you're rolling around in the bed and you turn this way. You know, like, whew, you know, like, you know, you, you look up and there's a pop art painting of, like, Jay Howard Marshall, and you turn over the other way, you know, put your arm around.

That'll get anybody's whippering. And, like, you turn around and put your arm around on the other way, and you're knocking off, like, a picture of Jay Howard Marshall on a wheelchair. You know, it's like that's got, like, you know, this whole thing on our, like a, this tribute thing on our nightstand. So do you think she genuinely loved him, like, romantically? Or as a girl who was in the industry, myself, I had love for men that took me out of terrible situations and like you have a love and a respect for them that is never replaceable. And it's almost like a, I don't want to, it's kind of weird, but it's almost like a father's love that you never got. Do you think that's how it was for her and Mr. Marshall? Honestly, there's so much, you know, like, um, that she said privately that I've got,

we're working on some things that are coming up that like are going to come out of that. But I will say to this in general, like basically that she, from what I thought about her relationship with him is that, and I'm speaking about this from like my perspective. Correct. I felt like that I was held to that standard of J. Howard Marshall. And I felt like that in some ways, not the ways that you might think, you know, or maybe so, but like she felt like that he was a saint and he got her like you said out of a situation. So it wasn't like, oh my God, I was lusting over this, you know, 90 year old man.

It was like he helped me out of a way. Like I don't know that like in and you like I feel like you can relate to this in so many ways because you know like you said your experiences and things that you dealt with. But I think she was just trying to survive. and this guy comes along and can help you get out of all this stuff. You saved her. You don't have to take your clothes off. You don't have to talk to these people.

You don't have to do crazy dances, you know, and all this stuff. And, you know, you're literally at, you know, Harry Winston's buying jewelry and all this other stuff. And this is a totally different thing for her. And she was getting attention. But she also felt like, I will say this, that she was serving a purpose for him because he had lost a previous wife that died. Right. She was bringing him happiness.

It was an even trade. And I think that it was a mutual thing. I think it's one of the things that's kind of, she got a lot of slack for every night talk shows and monologues for late night shows. I mean, people do that to me and my husband. You know, like I have been called a gold digger my whole life.

I feel like that is what, it's like a tale as old as time. And it's like it gives people something to talk about. And it's like a subject that everybody is like interested in for some reason. Yeah. And that doesn't necessarily mean that's how she was or who she was. Well, had I not seen, like, listen, I had heard the rumors beforehand. In fact, I mean, this is like a, I told Anna this and she smacked us.

But some friends, we were actually, I was Jay Howard Marshall on a wheelchair for Halloween and some girl was Anna Nicole, like, we made fun of it. Right. She's like, how dare you, you know, but she thought it was funny later and stuff. It was a joke, like, because of the age difference, you know? I mean, people are still doing that Halloween costume. And, I mean, some singers are doing it. There was an album cover.

you know and like recently Danny Lynn showed me that and and so basically like had I not seen behind those doors in that room. Yeah. You know like and I say that room in a way because it represented like

it was kind of like her place within her sanctuary. Yeah. Her safe space. And I mean she never hardly used the other parts of the house. It was like that's where the that's where it was. I mean like I was you know and I ended up dating her for like two years. So that was where our time was spent. I think a lot of people don't even know

that you guys were together for two years. Well, and the reason is because the problem with that is, is when Anna always did interviews, and you can find dozens of them out there, her big stick was she was this available sex goddess, sex kitten that people desired to be with. And so when she went out on a red carpet, that was what she projected. Like, you would want to be with this woman, you know, if you could be with this woman. That was part of her image. Yeah, absolutely. So she would, like, if she was on an interview, I mean, there's tons of them out there.

I haven't had sex in years. I haven't, like, you know, I, oh my God, no guys asked me out. I don't, no one goes on a date, you know, all that stuff. That was part of her thing. Yeah. She said it just because she wanted to appear to be available. and for you to think that you could have a chance with Anna Nicole. Right.

You know? And so, but she also did not want, because she had some weird situations and she had mistrust issues with people and a previous relationship and then like some stalker, he got a lot of press off of it. I will say this,

and it took me a while to unravel this in my mind, that she did not want to share the spotlight that she was getting and that attention she was getting with anybody else because that was where she felt loved. And you're taking a piece of that love away when you take a piece of whatever way. Right.

So, you know, that's where I think that, you know, she was the way she was and that what motivated that. But I might have got off track with what you asked me. No, you're good. So you guys, being together for two years, you were around enough to start figuring out characters in her life. Yeah. So I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth about Howard K. Stern. And it's only because I met Anna. I met her at the palms. Yep. I met her at the palms in Vegas. And I was walking and she grabbed me. And she's like, oh, my God, you're so beautiful. And like, she asked me for Xanax. And I was like, yeah, I have Xanax. Of course. You're so pretty. You guys. And I get how.

we're trying to protect her, but he was just, his energy was so dark and so evil. And he literally put his arm out in between us, because we were like this close together, put his arm out in between us and pushed me and was like, Anna, no, and like pushed me out of the way. And like, to the point where she was like, I'm so sorry. Like she was apologizing for him. Yeah. I mean, I've seen that, you know, I've seen him do that to different people in different events. But just is a question to you on that. Was it, do you think it was because she, you say she asked you for medicine,

or was it because he didn't want you near her? Now that I'm out of it, it's probably because she was asking for Xanax. And I mean, you don't want anybody just giving anybody pills. But also, I think it came from a place of, I don't know, I just really, I'm like you. I can read people. And I mean, in the first five minutes of being in their, you know,

energy and to me he seemed like he was in love with her and it was extremely controlling and I don't know she just seemed like a little kid who was getting literally carried away by her shoulders and she's looking back at me like I'm so sorry you know I've seen that look a million time yeah yeah well I mean here's the thing I'll say about this um obviously when I first came to the house there was you know I would you know when I would come to the kitchen hang out you know like it was like the common, I kind of feel like it was, I don't want people to like run with this, but like it kind of felt a little cult like, you know, like we were in like some kind of cult. The Anna Nicole, love boat.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I was resistant to, I didn't want to be an entourage member or whatever. Right. So I maintained independence. I tried to as much as I could. I still worked and did my own thing. I wasn't asking her for money, you know, that kind of stuff. but I will say that, you know,

you know, the people in the house, they were having their bills paid, but at the same time, the people in the house were working for, and I will say this, I had my own issues with Howard as far as, like, him stepping into the relationship territory between myself and Anna.

But at the same time, on the flip side of things, I watched him, like, worked tirelessly, you know, and negotiate all of her contracts and not take a fee. You know, an agent would take, you know, 10% or whatever, a manager would take this. Nothing was taken out of it, everything went to her.

you know and it was fiercely negotiated for her benefit like you know it was and i but i would also see you know um him spend time with anna son daniel kind of a father figure right you know and take him out to learn to drive and do things like that or take him out to a restaurant when anna was just so exhausted that she didn't get out of bed for days you know so i saw like both sides of it and the side that i saw that didn't bother me was the side that where he's helping daniel and this stuff the side that bother me was when he got involved in our relationship. And there became petty stuff like, you know, Anna, I was telling you she was painting. I was painting. You know, Anna, Howard, whose painting is better? Well, Anna, yours is better, you know? And I'm like, so it was like kind of like

that kind of stuff, you know, like, okay, let's get Kim in the room. Kim, who's painting's better? And like, it was like a round two, you know, and it was like just like some childish stuff going on. I look back and I was like, you know, Anna was in her 30s. I was in my younger third. I'm five years, I was five years younger than Anna, so I was, you know, I want to say I was like 30, maybe when I was there right at 30. And basically, we were all operating, even myself included, a little bit the maturity level wasn't to where people in their age, you know. And I feel like Anna liked to triangulate people. Yeah. That was her thing. Well, and, you know, like the thing about like, you know, what 30 something you're a woman

puts a trampoline in her house and tells you to jump off the rails. And it was almost like we were, you know, you hear about celebrities who didn't have a childhood like Michael Jackson's people and they tried to recreate stuff. So it was almost like we were kind of going along with the gag like, oh my God, today we're going to jump on a trampoline. You know, tomorrow we're going to paint faces and paint. So it was like, it was like activity time, you know? And in between that, you know, obviously we had our own personal time. But in the house when that was happening, like Howard slept on the couch below, which we auctioned. Thank God we got rid of me. but um but our anna's room is right above that you know and everybody kind of had a room and stuff

and so he really didn't have room but he would stay around and stuff and it was like a little bit uneasy for me because like he'd bring the dogs in the dogs want to see you again i'm like okay you know and you know and or here's what we're doing today and and some of it was necessary but some of it i think was kind of like to get in there to figure out what we were doing and stuff but in his defense and it took me a while to kind of like I don't want to say mature up, but also to kind of reflect on it. He was the cleanup man for a lot of the past stuff. Right.

For her relationship. So I don't want to make excuses for him because in the moment it hurt what he was doing to me. It hurt like my feelings and hurt like, you know, the relationship and it suffered because of it. But on the flip side of things, if you look at from his perspective where, you know, could he sit back and watch this person take advantage of Anna if he thought or whatever? I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm giving him too much greater. I don't know what somebody else might say.

I try to see everything from both sides, but I do know that it became difficult to just exist in the relationship with her. And it wasn't just him. It was literally like when people would come over, there was like, I mean, there's like, going back to the Netflix show, there's two these people that dressmakers that came out and took swipes. That means that Anna hated me.

They were never in the house one time with us. Right. Like one of them came, I think one and put a tape measure around her, and I saw them one time and they never came back. Right. You know, but now we're her best friends

and we're her this and we're her that and, you know, and whatever. And in that show, you know, those people, you know, Howard aside, those people took swipes at me and was like you said and said that I was, I want to go back to that just if I can real quick. Of course. She was looking for a person to have a baby with.

Well, that was partly born out of, like I said, that she would say she's not, dating anybody. So there was a mystery of who she's dating. Right. So when she actually got pregnant and not to jump ahead of what you're, you know, might ask me, but like it created a mystery of, well, who the hell's the father? Because she said she ain't dating anybody. Right. So, you know, that was the whole thing where the tension started to build because Anna, her show had ended. She still was the diet pill spokesperson. We knew she was pregnant. She came to me and told me she was pregnant. I was actually getting ready to just close up shop and say I'm done because I couldn't

deal with a lot of the stuff. So yeah, let's not gloss over that. So when she found out she was pregnant, how did she tell you and where were you guys at in your relationship? Well, we had previously had a miscarriage. And she had a difficulty with, I didn't think she was able to get pregnant, to be honest. Not that I'm like, not that we were trying not to or really, it was just hard for her to get pregnant. Well, and we really weren't sitting down going, oh my God, today at first. We weren't seeing, oh my God, today we're going to, let's have a, you know, we weren't really, it was just like we were just being ourselves and, you know, it's like whatever.

And I was convinced after hearing so many stories from her that, like, she had like some, I want to, I don't want to say it wrong, the. Endometriosis. No, the type of pregnancy that, um, It's atopic. Oh, ectopic pregnancy. Yeah, yeah. So she had something like that in the past and stuff.

She had difficulty with that. And so, like, when she did talk about wanting to have a baby, she had an ovulation meter by the bed. And she was like, I mean, I literally would be sitting there in the bed. Oh, my God, it's time, it's time, it's time. And it's like, clothes start flying. You know, it's like, it's like she really, she was laser focused on wanting to have a baby.

But what she did with me was she said, um, after saying she thought I was sent as an angel, to help her. Then she thought because of Daniel's birthday being the same as mine, that there was just too many signs that this was something that was meant to be. And then she went a step further and said, you know what? You actually kind of look like Daniel. And I think that, you know, if we had a kid together, we'd have some kids that look like, you know, Daniel and, you know, and she always wanted a girl. I mean, years and years of collecting like baby girl clothes. Yeah. Even dressed Daniel up as a girl when she could because, you know, because she wanted a girl so bad, you know.

Poor Daniel. What was your relationship like with Daniel? You know, honestly, I feel bad because I think in all of this, you know, after Daniel passed away and his mom and the paternity stuff that he gets forgotten, you know, in so many ways, he was a really, really, really good kid. and I think that super shy, you know, if you ever watch the show and, you know, and then finally they took him off the show and then he did homeschool and stuff and there was some kind of like, you know, tension

whether he should be on the show or not and he didn't want to. And then, you know, as he got older and when I came into the picture, he was kind of warming up to like even doing some modeling and some things like that and kind of coming out of his shell a little bit. But he was like super quiet to himself. but I would go down because he was the only person in the house that I could talk to who would talk to me at some points

because we got to a point in the house that when you went to the kitchen and you got something to eat, you were not supposed to talk to the person you saw in the hallway. It's like, don't talk to her, you don't talk to him. Why? Because she was telling people in the house different stuff. Oh, okay, I got it.

So she didn't want anybody to compare notes to what she was telling them. Wow. So. Wow. What a crazy way to live. Yeah. Yeah.

And everybody has to abide by it because she's the breadwinner. Well, they did the people, the employees, they had to. Right. That's what I mean. Maybe her son. But like she would actually get to the point where sometimes like she would come to me and I would listen to her talk to employees in the house and she'd say, you're back talking to me. And then, you know, fast forward to us and, you know, in the bedroom or wherever. And so she's like, and you're back talking to me.

I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am not your employee. Yeah. You know, don't put me in that pocket. When you do that, then this goes to a different level. And so I stood my ground for that. And so she was like, oh, shit. But it was kind of like a little bit of respect I got from doing that.

But it took me to say, hey, I'm not, you're not paying my bills. You're not this. I don't want your money. Yeah. I don't, you know, like literally I didn't ask her for anything. Like, you know, she brought me this necklace I'm wearing. You know, like literally that's the only thing that other than like holidays stuff or whatever. And, you know, I've never, I don't take it off. I think I took it off once.

I went into an MRI machine. And for Tyler Henry, is that the one that you were wearing on Tyler Henry? Yeah. And I don't, I don't take it off. But I, listen, the thing is, is that with Howard, with all of that, with him, you know, I had my problems with him. He had a job to do. I didn't really fit in that whole thing. The irony of it is is that he was one of the ones that actually brought me into the fold. Why don't you come to take pictures and stuff? So, I mean, he's probably kicking himself when he saw where I was versus where he might want to be.

Were they ever intimate? Never to my knowledge. In fact, when I talk to Anna, she's like, that's gross, that's this, that, you know. But, I mean, you can't really trust what Anna says because she's telling the world, she doesn't have a boyfriend. That's true. So, but the thing that I would say to that was, is that the only thing that I can attest to is that, like, there was, in no circumstances was, like, she getting sex from me and

going downstairs on the couch and getting sex from him. No, but I mean even before you or like after you. I honestly don't know. I mean, I can tell you that we had, you know, so many private conversations about that, that, that she never wavered. She would never, she would never say anything but we're just, he's like my brother, he's like my friend, he's like my, you know,

and I'm like, okay, I mean, I didn't have any reason to think that they would have. So I didn't really go further with it until later. Right, after the baby was. Yeah. So take me on the journey of her telling you that she's pregnant and where you guys are at. Sorry, I'm all. No, it all ties in together, I promise. And the thing is, like I said, I'm like.

There's so much lore. It's hard. You know, you're going to have to go down different avenues just to tie it in together. And like I said, I'm ADD. So I'm like, go back. And then I'm like, oh, shit. It's all making sense, I promise. It may not feel like it, but it is.

So honestly, like at a time when we had just kind of cut off. got over the miscarriage just several months prior to that. And then there were some rough patches we hit. And, and, um, and, and I just was like, I'm, I got to go. I got to go home. I was, well, it was like, um, you know, I mean, like, she expected so much out of me that I, I was, I was, I was drained, honestly. Like I was, it was, it was, it was. And I, I, honestly, like, like I said, I'm hyper. I like, I have things I've got to get. done. I literally would go, we would go to an event and we would say New Year's Eve in Vegas. And like, I was like, okay, that was fun the next day. But she needs to sleep for two weeks

to watch movies and stay in the bedroom and do whatever. And just to recover from it. So to me, I was like, I felt like I was just sinking into the bed. Right. You know, like I was and some people like, well, what's your complaint? You know, it's Anna Nicole. But I mean, after so much, Like mentally, I was like, I, because also, it wasn't just that. It was like I was told like, I had nieces and nephews I was super close with, you know, when they were growing up. And I never missed one holiday party with them or a birthday or whatever. There was one time I wanted to go home for my niece's birthday and she told me no. And we had to get a birthday cake.

And she put my nieces, she sent her assistant to go get it. go get a birthday cake that says happy birthday Amber and I was like okay and then her assistant comes brings it in she goes now go get your camera and she says here you take a picture told her assistant take the picture she gets in the bed she she's got it like a a white fluffy hat

remember the hats the girls were around the flight you know and but she wanted me to send this picture back to my niece but I wasn't supposed to tell anybody that I was dating her my family or anybody. So what she did, which was weird, was she puts glasses on. She makes me put glasses on and a sombrero. So I have a cake, a sombrero, and she's got these things on, and I'm holding this cake up that says, happy birthday amber. And she goes, okay, now it's done. You had a party. I go,

what? And she said, you're not going back home. Christmas came up. No, you can't go home. Because she didn't have anybody. So she felt like I was abandoning her when I said, I need to go just take care of normal things. And she wouldn't go with you because she didn't want people to know you guys were dating. For some time, we got to a point where she finally got over a little bit over the hump of that by, it was actually out of no, it was a, it was by mistake actually. We were in a Hooters restaurant in Burbank and we had just went shopping for, it was around Christmas time and Anna had all these people's charity. She, you know, those adopt the families on TV you see. And there were so many families that were like she was giving things to and stuff and we were getting gift cards and

stuff to send and um we went by hooters afterwards and she was like uh there was nobody in the restaurant at all and so they came over waited on us and stuff and all the sudden the paparazzi shows up at the window and i have a feeling somebody probably inside called him or whatever because it was like where we were there's just really not a lot of paparazzi in that area right so um the waitress is waiting on us and Anna's looking out the window at the window that the paparazzi and I'm telling her look and I had already taken pictures inside with her doing like dances with the Hooters girls and stuff and um we were just having lunch and stuff and um and I was always to take my camera back because I always had to look like the photographer right so

it was like I was playing a role within my relationship of really being something that I actually was so right you know so um the the paparazzi is outside and the waiters comes over and she's like um oh my God, she goes, I love your earrings to Anna. And she had these like earrings with a star on. She's like, they're so, so pretty. She goes, oh, my gosh. And your son is so cute. And she's looking at me.

So Anna immediately turns her back to the waitress. She looks at me and we both had beers in our hand and stuff. The paparazzi is outside still. We were still dealing with that. And she takes a swig of her beer and tears start coming down her face. And she says, you're going to eat five meals and you're going to lift weights and you're going to get big. And no one's going to think you're my fucking son and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know, but she had already told me I looked like her son.

You know what I mean? So it was like she was taking that and going, now I was being used against me. And I was like, I didn't really think we looked anything like other than like it was cool. We had the same birthday, but whatever, you know. And so. Well, I think what happened in that moment was it. it was an ego hit because you're her dude and you know she's like what are you trying to say like i look old like what's happening yeah she and she was always sensitive about she was always sensitive about

criticism about you know the way she looked and she was she was used to being picked apart and she had just kind of you know um transformed herself you know back and this was like the trim spa era where she was like you know you know and and and she thought all of that for this to you to say that. And then obviously nobody wants to feel like they look old and stuff. Like women, you know, women especially, it's like, you know, so it's like, I didn't know what to do in that moment because I was like, the paparazzi's out there. Tears are streaming down her face. She's, you know, crying. And I remember I didn't want, my instinct was to obviously like to comfort her and to hug her, but I remember the paparazzi's there. And I'm like, so I kind of

froze and so she turns and she takes her arms and puts them around me and she's still crying and and i'm like and i know this sounds petty because like but from what it was it hurt her feelings it hurt me to see her hurt but at the same time um that particular incident when we left the hooters restaurant then they started taking pictures of us leaving i'm holding her my camera bag i'm holding one of her dog's bags and she's trying to compose herself and she's flipped the switch again and she's like she's got her leg wrapped around a pole and she's leaning back and doing poses and stuff and she's really she's working the camera on the way out because that's she's trying to recover in that moment and those pictures wound up um i think they came out in a magazine who's

an an anna Nicole's mystery guy and blah blah blah blah and i was like oh shit and so um she really didn't get that worried about that Because it didn't, I don't want to say it was like breaking major news. It was, it was in magazines and stuff and it was like next, you know, next week's editions coming out next or whatever. But to me, later on, that would be a moment that would actually come back and be a piece of evidence that would prove that I had a relationship with her after the paternity stuff hit. Wow.

because Howard, her attorney went out and said that I didn't date Anna and that I just had about 15 pictures with her and that we're not going to respond to every Tom, Dick, and Larry that goes out and says they had a relationship with Anna. And so that was part of the paternity stuff when news broke about her getting pregnant. And people were trying to figure out, well, who's this and who's that. And so, but that particular moment in Hooters was a mistake

that actually kind of put Anna's foot forward to say, okay, that wasn't so bad. you know, he didn't, he wasn't trying to get the press. And it was my fault. She recognized that there's nothing really that we could have done to get out of the moment. But she, in moving forward, you know, there were other things and other times that would test whether she was open to me being seen with her or not. And I never forced that because I was always respectful the fact that this was her image. Yeah.

And, you know, and I didn't want to be, I also felt like I would fill that test. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like I felt like I was always, somebody was always waiting for me to fuck up. Exactly. You know, and when that happened, I felt like, then it's game over, you know. And to me it was more important because I was in love with her at that time.

We had these big moments, these things that, like, I never experienced miscarriages and things like that that brought us like, it was hard, but it brought us close. we got over things like all couples did we you know like you know cheating and you know not me but she cheated on me and like but she expected exclusivity for me and you know who'd she cheat on you with um you know what i i would like to say it maybe happened once but i think you know maybe you know a couple times but i how did she get away from you to cheat just like business trips and stuff like that there was a time when i actually we went to australia for um the MTV music awards. They were launching the Australian Network and it was

Sharon Osborne was there and Ozzy Osbourne And they just had Sharon on the podcast. I saw that and Anna loved Sharon and she was like she actually called Sharon Mom Because she needed that mom figure And And they were all over there and Carmen Electra and stuff And so there was this whole big thing and

It was a whole big thing that we filmed that's never been seen But like it's like this whole big thing where Anna was trying to outdo all of the other people that was slated to perform and stuff. And so during that trip, there was, she was over there to do some business. There was a guy who was flirting with her. I was forced to take pictures of her flirting with this guy.

And really every time that we went to every event, everybody that flirted with her, I'm having to document my girlfriend being flirted with somebody else, you know. Right. And it'd be girls, it would be guys, whatever, like whoever was taking up that time, you know, that was like, like it's it was a weird spot to be in and they they had no idea but you did and you had to

just bite the bullet yeah yeah that's wild and um so anyways i um what were you asking me sorry no um i actually forgot what i was oh uh how did she get away to cheat on you so so during that australia trip there was a guy flirting with her let uh you know um there was a business deal on the table. I flew 24 hours. We were, and Anna was there. We filmed the whole thing. No one's seen that either.

And it's like all this behind the scenes, craziness. And basically, there was a situation where the guy came up to the room that we were supposed to share together. And I was given a key for the room next door. Like I was now the help.

And I was like, wait a second. Or, you know, I was like, I didn't belong in that room. And so, there were it it you know she denied it later i you know you know but out of that i you know i i i i feel like something probably happened to where i like obviously i wasn't in that room but um i had to put my foot down from that point that's when i that was like i said all this this is all bullshit i don't give a shit what your public persona is i don't give a shit if you're this i just i had enough like you know like and um i was you know i was you know i

flew all this way, you know, and I was with, it was just me, Anna and Howard. And then we met people there from the different events and stuff. And, you know, Anna was looking forward to this. Like, this was, she's like, we're going to the most, one of the most romantic places in the world and blah, blah, blah. And it was supposed to be this time. And still, like, again, the miscarriage was fresh in my mind. We didn't talk about it. Right. She didn't want to talk about it. And she somehow, how long was she when you guys lost the baby? you know. It was a few,

two, three months, I think. Yeah. But somehow she turned that into the,

my suspicion about her cheating to denial to, she wanted to talk about that. And I don't know if that was

just, it was a brain switch or a maneuver, but that that thing was wiped away. We were now onto something else. And that's what

happened in that and in her world, really. You go from one thing to another. You don't have much time to spend it. But I was told in that moment that I did not get the big picture. That you don't get what this is all about. Right.

You know. Sort of gaslighting you. Well, like I, like that I wasn't a part of that picture. Right. And I was like, and I understood the business aspect of it. I understood like what I was supposed to do and say and not do and say and all that stuff. But that trip, which was, it was a turning point for many. things for me to put my foot down for respect.

And the odd thing was Anna's show was over, so we have it all, she was still filming. Right. So she filmed everything after. So all this stuff has just been in vaults and stuff. And so like it just shows us totally different picture of what, if I would have taken all of this stuff that we have that it's never been seen and dumped it in the courts when all the paternity stuff was going and all these different,

the doctor trials and all the different things, they would, it would be, okay, this all makes sense now. But I didn't, we didn't do that. And so, you know, people, because I have taken the high road in many ways, that has worked against me in my relationship with Anna. It also worked against me after she passed away because people think that they can rewrite history that I'm not going to say anything because I haven't said anything. It doesn't mean I don't know anything or I don't have the receipts and all the archives and things to show, to totally blow everybody out of the water.

You also had to protect every girl. That was the main thing. It was, you know, my daughter is just now, you know, Dan Lynn's 19, she'll be 20 in September. She's at the point where now it's kind of like, okay, there's some questions here. You know, I have this, or why is this person saying this? But she did, she set back and she did not watch the Netflix show,

but she watched the pain that I had from it. And she felt for me in that moment where I was actually feeling, and I will say, honestly, it hurt me what they said about me. I was more afraid that she would hear some of the things that they said about her mom. And that not because there's things that she, they're not all great things, they're not bad things. They're not things that like, I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and saying that, you know, I haven't done bad things or whatever.

But what I was more afraid of is that the discrediting of her life story was taken down. Right. And a two-hour show for the purpose of why. you know, for somebody to make money, to make ratings, to make, try to get awards. The vindication in that was that the show was called Anna Nicole, you don't know me. And people said, and you never will after you watch this show because blah, blah, blah. So I was like, yes, yes. And I was watching the Rotten Tomato score.

And it was like way down. I was like, let me frame that and send it to that picture. Yeah. So take me on this journey of when she does tell you that she's pregnant because you guys are beefing and we learned why. tell me about this journey because this is like right before she moves to the Bahamas, correct? So I guess the thing with me, you know, I got to the point where I was like kind of fed up and...