Dumb Blonde - Holly Madison: Past Lives and Freedom

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Bunnie welcomes the iconic Holly Madison this week! Holly is an open book on everything from her start with Playboy and the decision to leave the mansion, what it was like to go out on her own, and her relationships with everyone from Kendra to Criss Angel. She even gets a little woo-woo with Bunnie and shares the favorite things she's manifested and where she thinks she's lived in past lives. Check out Holly's podcast with Bridget Marquardt, Girls Next Level, and her show, 'The Playboy Murders'. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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that was my goal as a child and here we are what's up you sexy motherfuckers welcome to another episode of dumb blonde today this woman needs no introduction to me she's a vegas icon and i mean if you don't know who this woman is you must live under a rock mrs holly madison how are you doing ms holly madison i'm good thank you am i the first one in the new studio you're the second one but i'm just so happy that you're here like i when i first started this podcast i had a bucket list of who i wanted on. It was Dolly Parton, Joyce Meyers, and you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Like seriously, like growing up out here, it's like, you know, there's not many women that have been able to make a name for themselves because Vegas is full of beautiful women. You know, it's like, you have to really have something special about you to kind of stand apart from everybody. And I've always admired that about you.

Thank you. Yeah, totally. Totally. So I was telling you before the camera started rolling that, you know, every interview that I've seen of you has always been like people focusing on how your Hef's ex-girlfriend and Playboy and all that stuff, which is cool. But I want to focus on like who you are the woman you are like what made you who you are and stuff like that so of course guys we're gonna touch base on the playboy stuff but I just want to

kind of like get to know you is that you is that fun okay cool so I did a little research and I found out so I've read both of your books and I think're amazing. And we'll get to that later. But I don't know how I overlooked the fact that your parents, the parent situation, can we talk about that? Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about it. I'm gonna let you tell it in your own words. My parents? Yeah. So the whole situation that happened with, um, you know, I don't know. I read it in an article, so I don't know how true it is, but they said that like your parents passed away oh no no they're still alive yeah oh my god see what i'm saying these articles okay so there was an article where i read and this is it says your parents passed away and that two women dropped you off at a church and you were adopted by a pastor and his wife wait a minute where did you read this i've never heard that

but that's an amazing story. That is crazy. Cause I was like, I thought I knew everything about her. And then when I read that this morning, I was like, holy shit, if you type in Holly Madison bio, it'll come up. Oh my God. That is so funny. All right. Well, let's tell the real story so we can clarify. Tell, where did you grow up? I grew up in Oregon and in Alaska. And my story is so much more boring than the one that lives online, apparently. We moved from Oregon to Alaska when I was about three. We lived there until I was 10. And we lived on Prince of Wales Island.

So it was very rural. We lived in a little town called Craig for a while. But that was the biggest place we ever lived. So a lot of it was very off- the grid type stuff like the Alaska survival shows yeah I like to watch those because it like reminds me of growing up and then we moved to Oregon and um I don't know I think my childhood is so boring yeah no trauma no nothing just literally no I mean living your best life I mean everybody has their own trauma but I wouldn't say I had anything big right yeah impressive right it's's like nothing to write home to mom about. I'm obsessed with that story you read

online. Dude, you want me to find it for you? I swear to God, let me find it for you. Hold on one second. Because I was like, I thought I knew a lot about her. And then I heard read that this morning. Like literally, look, parents were killed and taken by two women adopted by a pastor and a wife. Um, yeah, hold on one second. I'm going to bring it up for you just so that you've ever heard about yourself on the internet. I've heard some crazy stuff, but that's one of them. There's also like a rumor that I'm trans and there's a rumor that I'm a clone and there's a rumor that I'm an MK ultra beta kitten beta slave. How could people, how could people even think that you're trans like that's crazy or a clone

like everybody's so obsessed with like trying to like expose everybody for what they aren't it's just so crazy hold on let me look at my history really quick if not I'll find it for you after the podcast but hold on I get a kick out of it, because I was that little kid that was always so intrigued with like urban legends and like gross Hollywood underbelly stuff. Yeah, no, for sure. I will find it for you as soon as we get done because I'm gonna have to dig for it. But yeah, when I read that, I was like, holy shit, I can't believe I didn't know that. All right. So you grew up in Alaska and Oregon. Take me on that journey with you growing up.

Like what was baby Holly like um I feel like it was a lot of alone time because a lot of times we didn't even live in a town or anything like that so it was really hard for me to connect with people socially and then we moved around a lot like during my pre-teen years I think over like fourth and fifth grade I went to like five ten different schools and wow that's a lot yeah so it was a lot of feeling of being uprooted and for some reason the way it was never explained to me that like I mean maybe my parents always thought it was the last stop but it was never like oh you're just going to be at this school for a few months it's like you always thought

that was the last one and then hey we're moving again so it kind of gave me this complex I think where I always kind of feel like the rug is going to get pulled out from me. That and also having a feeling of not having a sense of belonging. Were they in the military? No, it was just job promotions and things like that. Yeah. Gotcha. So you're going from school to school.

Were you ever, did this like create a rebellious streak in you or? A little bit. Like I didn't really have an idea of what I wanted to do after school I think just because everything when every year it's something different you're just kind of trying to adjust yeah so it wasn't until I was like a senior in high school when I was like oh holy shit I better get good grades fast so I can like get into college so I could move out of town because like I didn't know anybody or have any skills or any money so I always wanted to move to California so I thought if I want to transfer to a good school or get accepted in a good school like I need to get

my shit together really fast she's like senior in high school all right it's time to get my shit together a little retroactive I love that so you did end up graduating right and then I think I read somewhere that you actually did attend college in Oregon. Yeah, I went to Portland State University for two years and then I transferred to Loyola Marymount in LA and I was a double major. I dropped out before I finished though. For in psychology, right? Yeah. Okay, that was right that I read. Good. At least that was factual. Okay, so after you're in college, you're're in L.A. now, what's Holly feeling like out there? Because you're coming from really small towns, never having really a sense of belonging anywhere. You're in fucking L.A. where everybody's just like a melting pot.

Yeah, it's there's so many like levels to L.A. Like you'll hear people complain about all the time how like everybody's fake or if people are on like the influencer scene now, they're like, oh, it's just so ratchet in so many ways. Which, of course, there's a whole other side to the city, too. But I think when you're new and you're trying to make it, those are the circles you find yourself in. So it's really weird. And I was just kind of too all over the place. Like I was too all over the place to really focus on keeping my grades good or focus on making enough money at my job or focusing on doing well at auditions I was kind of trying to

do it all and like crashing and burning just like fucking just just trying to juggle everything just not being able to do it so you're crashing and burning you are just kind of at your wits end how take me on that journey well I had already been invited to parties at the Playboy Mansion for a while which were like the cool parties to go to at the time back in the day yeah that was like the you were like elite if you got an invitation to one of those yeah they were hard to get into and I used to work at Hooters and all the girls wanted to go to those parties there were like one or two girls at the restaurant who got invited so when I finally got invited I was really excited and then I got invited to the pool parties which are smaller

and then you start to feel like you're part of the community there and you know when I was finding myself like I dropped out of college and I had nowhere to live because my roommate was moving away and it was kind of like everybody I knew at the restaurant was kind of like moving back home because we were all like transplants and people were feeling like they weren't really making it in LA. And that was when I decided to move into the mansion because I thought, well, if I could just live here and like get on my feet for a minute, it would be really good. And it turned into like this seven year thing. I thought it was going to be six months. Seven year thing that was documented every step of the way. Yeah. How did that feel to even be invited to move into

the mansion too? That's not an easy feat to accomplish. Yeah. I was invited to go out with them because Hef would go out. He had seven girlfriends at the time and they would go out like twice a week. And I was invited to go out. Didn't take them up on it at first. But then when I thought, well, maybe it would be nice to be a girlfriend because I could live at the house and kind of get back on my feet and everything. So I said, you know, I'm ready to go out like if the offer still stands. And then, you know, I wanted to move in because the first night was really hectic, which is like, I've told that story a million times, but it's like just a long story short. Like, you know, I knew that if you guys want to know the story listen to her books yeah read

her books in any way it was like I thought I was ready for something that I was really getting in over my head on and I thought you know what if I'm gonna have to do this I'm gonna move in like I'm not just gonna turn around and feel used right so I asked him if I could move in and I moved in the next day and the rest was history the rest history. You know, whenever I used to watch like the girls next door and stuff like that, I used to really feel that you were so genuine towards him. Like I really felt that you actually like loved him, you know, because you can tell by how someone interacts with somebody.

You can't fake an emotion. Yeah, I did at the time for sure. I mean, I was totally on his side totally loyal toward him 100% totally identified with him totally overlooked any negatives and everything and I don't really have any regrets looking back because I you know that was just me being in love and being supportive and trying to do my best until I just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah. That was just part of your story. And she goes into so much detail about this in her book. So if you guys, what are you name your books really quick so that we can down the rabbit

hole and the Vegas diaries. Yeah. You guys got to read those or do the audio books. They're really good books and they give you a lot of insight into this. We're not going to linger on this cause I want to get onto other things. But so, you know, you're in L.A., you're living at the mansion. You are a Playboy centerfold, which actually it took you a little bit to become a centerfold, right? It was like a fight to become a centerfold. Yeah, well, he didn't want to put any of his girlfriends in the magazine after a point. And then finally, when the show came along, they thought, oh, well, it would be a good idea, obviously, to put the girls in the magazine because that's promo for the magazine being on tv and it's a celebrity for the magazine so it worked both ways so we got to do celebrity pictorials and

I was on the cover four times so that was really exciting yeah so you're going through all this you're also dealing with a lot of you know dark demons on the side too lots of comparisons lots of catty shit lots of stuff like that how's holly feeling in all of this like how how was your mental health how was your heart like how was all that it was bad i mean i was always trying so hard to make the best out of it and i was always hoping things would change and in relationships like that where you have that kind of dynamic where it's really controlling you'll be thrown a bone every once in a while right and that's what gets you to stick around that's what makes you think oh things are going to get better but they never really did so there were times you know I had suicidal ideations there were times when I was just so depressed you know I went on

and off different antidepressants and things like that so it was a struggle and I always tried to make the best out of it and you, you know, in the end, there were definitely some positives coming out of it with the show and, you know, gaining a whole audience that way and getting to be in the magazine was always a dream of mine. So that was great. I think at the end of the day, I'm good at making lemonade out of lemons, but it was rough going through it. And it was hard to after I left because everybody when they watch the show, they only see the positive and the fun times. And it's hard when too, after I left because everybody, when they watch the show, they only see the positive and the fun times. And it's hard when every single day you're meeting somebody new who thinks you have this story about how amazing everything up there is.

And they're like, oh, how's Huff? How's Kendra? How's everything? And they want to hear all the great stories. And for a while, I was trying to just kind of brush everything off and, you know, live up to that expectation. But you can't do it after a while. You start to feel like you're living a lie every single day of your life. And that takes a toll on you mentally. For sure. For anybody who's listening right now who's ever had to deal with like suicidal ideation, what is some advice that

you could give them? Because I also had to battle with a stint of suicidal ideation and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Yeah. I don't even know if I have the best advice. It's just, there was always something inside me that was just like, you know, hang on. You never know. Like it's going to get a little bit better. Like what if, what if you don't, what if it could get better and you don't live to see that? Right. You know, there was just always something, you know, maybe I was just chicken. I never went through anything. Hope. I mean the littlest speck of hope can give anybody some sort of, you know, just motivation to want to stay. Yeah. Even the tiniest things sometimes just, you have to

take it one day at a time. And just even now when I deal with depression, it's just even getting outside will help a little bit. Like, I know that sounds so dumb and so little and how could that make a big impact on your life? But when you're trying to take it day by day, just get outside, like take your dog on a walk, something. Yes. I always get away from it all. I always tell everybody, get up and like take a shower and put makeup on like that. If you're a woman or man, if you prefer makeup too, um, but just get up and like do your hair, do your makeup. Cause that always just changes like the vibe of the day. You could be feeling like so terrible. And if you just like put an outfit on and feel pretty, like it just makes you feel so much

better. Yeah. So let's circle back. Okay, so you're doing all these things with Playboy, all the stuff. You've had enough and you are ready to leave the mansion. Take me on that journey with you. When was the last time you needed to go to a doctor but you pushed it off, made the excuse of, I'm too busy, it'll heal on its own, I don't need help? I think we've all been there. Booking a doctor appointment can just feel so daunting.

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guilty. Like I was leaving this poor old man high and dry, which is such a joke because of course, there's like all these girls around and, you know, he's onto the next, the next day. That's how abusive relationships work. Yeah, you're made to feel really guilty. It's a vicious cycle. And I felt so guilty, but I just knew I couldn't keep doing it. And I at the time I was working at the Playboy studio. I was the editor of the Playmate pictorials and I wanted to keep that job.

And I didn't think that would be unusual because he had ex-girlfriends who continued to work for him, whether it was as a secretary or working for the company or different things like that so I tried that for a while but I was finding myself in Vegas more and more because I wanted to do a show in Vegas so eventually I quit that but it was hard it was hard to leave it was because even though I was on a tv show that was a hit at the time I didn't think there would be anything waiting for me like I knew I was gonna have to like hit the ground running and like make things happen for myself. America was obsessed with you though. Like you were like the one, I feel like, you know, Kendra had her thing, Bridget had her thing, but you also had your thing too. And it was like, people wanted to know more about you as a person. So I think that's why when you finally did leave it, everything kind of like blew up for you because

they were just like, holy shit. One, she had the balls to leave the mansion, not many girls would have done that, you know, and to publicly have done it how you did, too, was just, you know, amazing. So I'm leaving the mansion. You end up getting like your own TV show. You're doing your own Vegas show. Take me on that journey. I mean, it was just a dream come come true like I couldn't believe that I'd manifested these things I wanted to do and it kind of happened in like a weird like too good to be true way like I'd wanted to do like one of my goals was I'd wanted to do Dancing with the Stars for so long and they kept turning me down even when I was at the mansion I was trying to do it and they kept turning me down there's like no way this is like a middle America show and you're dating an old man nobody's gonna want. Like they don't want this even though it's half, right? Yeah. But, um, I had kept asking and kept asking and they

had someone on the show got injured and they needed somebody last minute. And like, nobody else is going to want to come in last minute. Cause you're not getting the chance to rehearse. You know, you don't have as much chance to win, but I didn't care about winning. I just wanted to go and have the sparkly outfits and get the exposure and stuff so they called me up and I got to do that and that just happened so quickly after I left and right when I really needed something and then I got the show in Vegas because I really wanted to do a burlesque show I was actually in talks to do a different show and I'd ended up in another really bad relationship for a couple months and he had like talked me out of doing that show so I kind of you know felt like I was just on my ass with nothing and I just have to like

pull myself up off the ground so I was really lucky just the way everything kind of fell into place but it's because of persistence too like it wasn't just luck that I got to be on Dancing with the Stars it was because I've been hounding them for so long they're like okay what bitch is going to be desperate enough to come in with me? I know. I feel like you have a strong work ethic, though. Like, even though you lived at the mansion, you still wanted to be, you know, do the pictorials, you still helped with everything around there. So it's not like you're just like this lazy chick who just expects everything to be handed to her. Like you really go out and get it. Yeah, for sure. I think that was the case for me and Bridget. Both when we moved into the mansion, we saw it not, I mean, for me, I needed a place to live, but also we saw it as something,

you know, we could build opportunities off of it. You know, we really loved the brand and we really wanted to do a lot, but once you get locked into the girlfriend thing, there's a lot more rules and expectations than you ever thought there was going to be. And you're not allowed to work and things like that. So that got really frustrating, I think, for both of us because we wanted to do so much and we do really have a strong work ethic and I ended up you know at one point they would give tours of the mansion to like they give away tours sometimes to like military people or um for charity auctions and things like that and Bridget and I volunteered to give the tours just because like we so badly wanted something to do and we so badly wanted like a reason to be there other than being his girlfriend.

Yeah. Just have a purpose. Let's circle back. So you said you had gotten into an abuse or not abusive, just a toxic relationship. I have noticed a pattern with you that you are like this light and you're just like you're always trying to like emit light. But the men that you date are so dark have you ever noticed that like chris angel zag bagan you know like there's what is that what is it like the you do do you try to fix them are you a fixer or what is it it's like a moth to a flame um well i think there's well there's a common denominator with like the more significant relationships in my life and there were a couple that were really toxic along the way. So it's kind of two different strains, like the

common denominator between like all my most significant relationships I've noticed is I love men who are really driven and creative and create their own worlds. Yes. Like that's the thing. That's a Capricorn trait. Yeah, you love that. I'm a Cap Aquarius and a cap rising. So I love opposite. I'm a Capricorn Aquarius rising. Wow. That's amazing. I love that. And my husband's that way. His drive is fucking more than mine. And I'm like, Oh, you're so hot. Yeah, no, I love that. I love to be able to admire the man that I'm with. Yeah, totally. But yeah, I had, that was just something I had noticed whenever I was like researching, you know, I was like, she likes, you know, kind of like the darkness, but I get it because I'm the same way

I like to play with fire all the time but I'm also a fixer I like I want a project and if you're not broken into a million pieces I don't want it you know like I want to like put it back together um okay so you got your Vegas show you were doing your Vegas show and is that when um what was the first tv show that you got was it Holly's World or yeah that was my spinoff from Girls Next Door right and that was interesting I like I love doing that show and it was what I wanted to do it was another goal and a dream come true but it was interesting because when we were at the mansion for Girls Next Door we had to sign these contracts pretty much under duress we weren't allowed to have like our own agents or

lawyers or anybody look at it like Bridget literally got yanked out of the shower and told to sign it. You guys were like concubines. Yeah, it was crazy. It was nuts. And then according to this contract, if I was ever going to have a spinoff on E, the same production company had to produce that spinoff. So the production company was the same one that did Girls Next Door. And the man who ran it was a very close friend of Hef's so it was a little weird like I love doing that show it was such a great experience but it was also like I was working for this man who's like hovering over me and like kind of making sure that I'm still kind of loyal to Hef and the brand even if I don't really want to be

wow so it's kind of like a strange thing He was trying to control the narrative even with you not being in the house. Yeah. It's very narcissistic of him. Yeah, it was toxic. That's crazy. So is that why Holly's world ended up ending was because you were under this like, you know, you couldn't really have freedom of expression. No, it was more because E got bought by comcast and they shuffled around who the presidents were

like the president of e got moved to nbc and then they had a new president and she came in and you know when somebody comes in new they want to make their own mark they don't want to just ride the wave of the last person and she's like i'm getting rid of all the playboy related stuff and the only thing that was left girls next door had already been canceled but i had a show on there and kendra had a spinoff on there. So those got canceled, which kind of sucked because we felt like we were away from Playboy doing our own thing. But we're still getting canceled because it's too Playboy.

It's crazy because you guys were so iconic. You guys literally created an era. You guys were like what little girls wanted to aspire to be. You guys made Playboy cool. And you would think that they would have, you know, treated you guys a lot better and like thanked you guys made Playboy cool and you would think that they would have um you know treated you guys a lot better and like thanked you guys you know like gave you guys your own platforms to like do whatever you needed to do or you know you know what I'm saying it's just like yeah Kendra kind of had that support Bridget and I really didn't which is interesting yeah why do

you think that is um I think Hef was more resentful when I left and when Bridget left, because I think he expected me and wanted me to stay around the whole time. And I think when Kendra came along, everybody knew she wasn't going to stay that long. And she'd be there for a couple years. So if she wanted to leave and like become this star, who's still kind of controlled by this guy who's keeping her loyal to the playboy narrative like that was great right but I think have held a lot of resentment when I left because I left from his perspective so suddenly like anybody else looking at the situation would not think it's sudden because I've been going through so much but I think in his mind he was like wait what the fuck just happened do you think have genuinely loved you maybe as much as he could love somebody right his idea of love is so weird. Warped. Warped, narcissistic. I think he's, or was, I talk about him in present tense, which is so weird.

People point that out that I do that on my podcast and it's weird. Anyway, so I feel like he was really addicted to like the feeling of longing. So he always wanted like more, more, more. And he always wanted to, like if he had a girlfriend who left he always wanted to win that girl back right it was more like addicted to the conflict to the chaos yeah addicted to the drama and that's why he always wanted to pit girls against each other and things like that right which I hate I don't want drama in a relationship there's too much drama in the real world I want want my relationship to be like. It has to be your piece. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So being in a relationship like that, are you open to like open relationships now or like. The opposite. She's like, I don't know. I'm scarred. She's like, absolutely not. I am the only one. And that's it. Yeah.

I would flip out. Like even if I'm like watching a porn and I think like a threesome scene is hot or something. I feel like if I was in that situation in real life, I would snap and, like, decapitate someone. Yeah. I love that, though. Don't mess with Holly's man, baby. Okay. So moving on from Holly's world, take me on that.

What happens next? Because you are constantly doing something. You always have your hands in something. That's one thing about you I've always loved, too, is you don't fuck around, man. It's on to the next. Well, I had always wanted to hands in something. That's one thing about you I've always loved too is you don't fuck around, man. It's on to the next. Well, I had always wanted to be a mom. I'd always wanted to have kids. And I was about 30, I think, when Holly's World got canceled or 31.

And I was devastated when it got canceled because I didn't feel like I was done with that show or telling that story. But looking back, I'm really glad because I really needed to be cut off from the toxic relationship I had with the show's producer. I feel like I never would have had my kids if I was still working for him because I feel like my kid's dad would have just never put up with his bullshit.

Because the way that producer operated is he thought me, Bridget, and Kendra were his little puppets. Like I heard from other people who worked for him that he used to brag about that and say, they're like my puppets. I can get them to do whatever I want well that's yeah and when I was on Holly's World and trying to date people you know I wouldn't want to bring guys I was dating on the show immediately I'd want to get to know them make sure they're okay and stuff like that

but if he ever got wind that I was dating somebody he would like call them have his people call them behind my back and like he was just always messing with my personal life that's terrible yeah you literally are just trying to move on with your life and this man well Hef's harem is like not letting you go yeah it was weird so I feel like I'm glad it got canceled because that toxic relationship got cut off and I got to like move on and have my kids and so let's talk about baby daddy yeah pasqual let's can we touch on him a little bit okay cool so how did you meet pasqual we met he has a big festival called edc and when he first brought it out to vegas like 10 years ago i went to that because i was a mess i went out every night when i had my show like i had the best time no regrets

folks i had like when I hang out with my friends I still have from that show we always laugh and reminisce and like we have no regrets. We had more fun I think than anybody's ever had in the world. You live in your best life. Yeah. You're free. Well somewhat. So I met him through just common friends and from going to the festival and you know we fell in love right away and had kids and got married and then things didn't end up working out, but it's not like I have no hard feelings and he's a great dad. You guys have a pretty good relationship.

Yeah. Thank God. Like we're able to co-parent and everything's good and he's a really hands on dad and going through a divorce like that, you know, with two babies, you were, yeah,

you have two babies going through a divorce like that with two babies. was it a sad breakup or was it a mutual? I think it was hard. It was a hard transition. But I think for me the hardest part was just getting back on my feet again as a single person and what's my career going to be. We were both really invested in doing what was best for the kids so that was always pretty smooth people always ask me for advice on co-parenting and i'm like i can't really give any because i'm lucky yeah partner is also very interested in what's best for the kids that's amazing because a lot of people don't do that i know i feel so bad because if your partner's crazy you're like trying to use the kids as leverage what are you going to do you

kind of have to be crazy back yeah no that's that's just a whole toxic cesspool that just fucking never ends so funny that um you talk about the edc because my husband he's from nashville knows nothing about edc and today he was in the kitchen he's like yeah i'm just gonna swing by edc i was like a little bit more of a process just swinging by because first of all from vegas you have to go all the way out to the speedway. Right. So you have to drive out there or take a helicopter. And then you don't want to leave because there's so much to see. It's kind of like its own little island.

Yeah. So you'll have to text me and let me know how he likes it. Well, he's not going to be able to just swing by. He's like, if Diplo's playing, I'm going. And I was like, OK, honey. No, it was just so funny that the irony that it's this weekend and that you're on the podcast and stuff like that. Are you going to EDC?

No, because I always have the kids. Oh, gotcha. I always do a little bit more. I mean, we have 50-50 custody, but I do pitch in more on EDC week. Yeah, I love that. I think we skimmed over your relationship with Criss Angel. Are we allowed to touch on that? We can, yeah. So how long were you and Criss together for? It was very quick. It was like four months. So because when I met you, that's when you were dating him. Yeah. I think we had just started dating. I don't care what anybody says. It doesn't matter what time of year it is. I never get tired of online shopping, especially during the holidays. Here's the thing. It's kind of gross out. Even those of us that embrace the chilly weather needs something to break up long winter nights. Something I love to do is treat myself to

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Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash bunny B-U-N-N-I-E to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash bunny. I wouldn't have been allowed to be at a party by myself while we were actually dating really was he very strict like that too yeah is pasquale strict like controlling that seems to be like a common narrative too with the men that are in your life pasquale's not controlling but i do think one of the contributing factors in us breaking up is he very much wants and deserves a partner that wants to go to all the festivals and like be behind his brand 100 and i was behind it like supportive and i would go to all the things but you're a boss in your own right yeah i need to do my own thing too and i feel like it's hard for me it's not that i don't see the beauty in being like a full-time mom or full-time wife or being

that supportive but I think for me it's harder to do because of like the trauma I've been through and right like after being at the mansion for seven years and being so tightly controlled I have to be in a relationship where I have a little more freedom than most guys would be comfortable giving me right so I think I think we were just kind of going in different directions yeah so you and Chris were just a kind of going in different directions. Yeah. So you and Chris were just kind of like flash in the pan. Yeah. How crazy was that going from Hugh Hefner to Chris Angel, though, like a guy liner to a geezer to a guy liner? You know, I thought it would be really different, but I feel like it was kind of a gift and that the universe was showing

me what I don't want in a relationship moving forward. You know, I do need more freedom and I can't be kind of that traditional stay at home. Yeah. Wife. Yeah, for sure. I, I, that's why I'm always doing my own thing too. Like I want to be, I want to be your wife, but I'm not going to be known as Jelly's wife. Yeah. You know, like I would have to have my own thing going on.

Well, I think you guys are doing a great job because you so have your own thing and your own brand, but you guys are also a power couple oh I appreciate that so much so moving on you have these beautiful babies and what's Holly doing now you're divorced you have the two babies you are ready to fucking mingle and take on the world yeah well I just started my own podcast almost a year ago with Bridget we talk about Girls Next Door and like rehash all the drama which there's never a shortage to talk about it takes us two episodes to get through like a 22 minute episode so much stuff but we're having so much fun with it what's the name of the podcast Girls Next Level you find it anywhere you find podcasts and um I'm doing a show on Investigation Discovery it's

called The Playboy Murders you can watch watch that on Discovery Plus, which is becoming HBO Max. Yeah, it'll be on there. And season two will be coming out, I think, early next year. I love it. You just always have your hands on something. I think it's really cool that you and Bridget have remained friends. Yeah, we have just this amazing friendship. You know, we were super close. We always trusted each other from the very beginning. And it's just great to have that yeah it's very hard to find people that stick by your side through it all thick and thin no matter what and I feel like that you guys have weathered the storm together yeah so you guys starting this podcast together I think is super cute too like I saw the um the clips that you were putting on tiktok and

I was like go babies go I was so excited for you because I mean you guys needed your own fucking podcast like you guys were going on everybody else's podcast. And I was like, well, as soon as you guys did your own podcast, I was like, there we go. That there we go. Good girls. Um, so you're doing the podcast, you're doing this thing with discovery and you're now dating a new boy. Can we talk about it? Everything's good though. I don't have any like drama no you're good we don't want any drama we just want to talk like how did you guys meet we we actually like I was kind of aware of him for a really long time because one of my best friends used to live across the street from him so she would always talk about him but we never and we would like run into each other

places but I would never really see him because I feel like first of all like just prefacing this about myself for the listeners like I am a lunatic and I'm off the wall and I believe in all this weird spiritual shit I feel like my spirit guides were like not letting me see him because it wasn't the right time oh I love that crazy back then I believe in that too I have my kids and stuff and um I just went to he has a haunted museum in Vegas, and I was there with my friends, and he comped our tickets, so I, like, posted and, like, thanked him for it, and then we started, like, talking about creepy puppets, and it's been good ever since. I love that. Let's talk about your spirituality, though, because that's one side about you that I didn't know, because

I'm super spiritual. I'm very in tune with all the shit that's going on, too, so I love to hear my fellow spiritualists I don't know how I can even explain like how I got into it or what it even is because I'm just so interested in absorbing everything like anytime I'm by myself it's like I'm listening to YouTube videos about like Journey of Souls and Dolores Cannon and I love Dolores yeah have you ever done a past life regression yes I've done more than one and I've even done meditations on my own where I can see stuff and it is loopy I want to hear what is what are some of your past lives they're always either in Egypt or in Europe and the craziest thing it's not so much like if I told you what they were it's not that they're so interesting or fascinating

right but when I did my first past life regression the thing that made me really believe in it, because they hypnotize you. And first of all, being hypnotized wasn't even what I thought being hypnotized was like. Right. You're just really relaxed. I was still like aware of what was going on. And she's asking me all these questions and telling me how to access these things. And I'm like, I don't know if I really believe this. This is probably just my brain making shit up. But as I started to get into these things, I started to really feel what it felt like to live in a different time and have a completely different perspective that I would never have in this lifetime like you're going back and you're living in the woods in Germany in the 1400s and you're living off the land and you're just happy

yeah and now you know being a you know living now you're I'm just always so ambitious and so what can I do next and I'm not happy unless I'm doing the next thing and to be able to access that feeling and know what that felt like and know that back in a time where there was no real class mobility so people were just kind of more happy with what they had because and now we're just living beating ourselves up because we're not, you know, living the billionaire lifestyle we see on Instagram. Cause everybody feels like they should be doing that if they were less lazy.

And that's kind of an illusion. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree. Everybody asked me to do a past life regression and I'm scared. Cause I'm like, I don't, I don't want to know.

I'm like, God, was I like fucking Athena, the princess warrior? Or was I like a hooker back in the fucking palaces of King of Solomon? You know, like I just never. You'll be surprised. You'll see so many things. You'll see ones where you were a man.

You'll see ones where you were a woman. I swear. So when you're getting hypnotized, like what does it feel like? Like, is it just you meditating pretty much? Is that what it feels like? And just really, really relaxed. Yeah. And it was kind of uncomfortable too,

because I was going back to this one past life regression where I was male and I had this kind of like molestation experience and she was like, well, tell me what he did. And I'm like, no, because it felt so real. Like, I don't want to talk about it. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. So when did you start your spiritual journey? Like, have you always been like that or is it just something that kind of grew on you after? I've always been intrigued by like is it just something that kind of grew on you after? I've always been intrigued by like really mysterious things since I was a little kid, but I would say like 2017, I got really deep into it. Is there anything that happened like that kind of sent you on that trajectory?

I know I got sober in 2017 and that's what sent me on my spiritual journey. The same year. Yeah. That's so weird. Something happened. Yeah, we need to look at the planets in 2017 because it was a crazy year for me. Yeah, I had had my son in 2016 and was dealing with a lot of postpartum depression and stuff. So I think maybe that was kind of what got me into it was I was like talking to a lot of psychics and looking for answers and researching different things on YouTube.

And then I just got really fascinated with it. Yeah. This is my loopiest interview I've ever done. People are going to walk away from this like this bitch. No, not at all. I think it's great because people get to see like a, like a personal side of you where you're not just talking about just the mansion and stuff like that. And I love it. I'm fascinated with spiritual shit. Like I am obsessed with it. I just did a heart cleanse chakra this week for the first time and it really worked. Like it's amazing. I don't a heart cleanse, a chakra this week for the first time. And it really worked. Like it's amazing. I don't know if you've ever done anything like that, but I literally like

had like a breakthrough where I was just bawling because I just had so much shit going on, I guess. And I felt so much better and everything has gotten thrown at me this, this week. And I'm just like, so Zen about it. And it's like amazing. Yeah, no, no it's amazing so I might ask you for like a hookup um so I did it um uh insight timer has like courses that you can go on just go in there and I picked a heart chakra cleanse just a random course and literally it was so such an amazing moment like I told them about it too I was like dude this is fucking crazy like I ball and I'm not a crier I'm a tough bitch you know so for me to ball my eyes out like that and just have that kind of release was like obviously it was much needed but I feel so much better like it's really cool put it in the show

notes yeah literally I'm just now like getting turned um tuned into like chakras and stuff like that I've never like messed with anything like that because I grew up in a very religious household so you know it's like stuff you don't mess with. And then now I'm just like all in, I'm like, fuck it. Whatever's going to make me feel better and heal. I am all for. Yeah. So moving on from your spirituality and Zach Bagan, what are you doing now? Like, what are some projects that you're doing? Just still the podcast. Um, I'm really busy with that cause I do all the editing and stuff too. And the show on Investigation Discovery. I don't think I have anything else.

Between like being a mom and the TV show and the podcast and splitting my time between two cities, I am booked and busy. I'm at my brim. No, for sure. Being a mom is a full-time job. I don't know how you guys do it. I have not had kids of my own. I have my little bonus baby. But being a mom is like you-time job. I don't know how you guys do it. I have not had kids of my own. I have my little bonus baby.

But being a mom is like, you guys are fucking savages. I can't do it, man. You guys, like, Mimi has two kids too. So let's talk about your books, Down the Rabbit Hole and The Vegas Diaries. Yeah. So what inspired, well, obviously, we know what inspired that. But what inspired you to write it and just kind of bare your soul to the world? know what inspired that but what inspired you to write it and just kind of bare your soul to the world the reason I wrote it was I was going through a period where my show had been canceled I had cut

ties with that producer so I was finally free from like any real hovering influence from the playboy world and I had met um the man that I was going to marry and have kids with and stuff and every single day somebody would come up to me and ask me how how's Hef? How's Kendra? How was the mansion? And they would want this really positive story. And I felt like I would kind of have to give them just a, oh, everybody's great. Everything was great. So fun. Just because, I mean, you're not, A, you're not going to get into it really with a stranger, but B, you know, you kind of feel like that's expected and you kind of feel like that's a nice thing to do. But it really started to have an effect on me that I wasn't expecting, like this pit in your stomach, just feeling like you're living a lie.

And until you've really felt like you've had to hide a whole big part of your past like that, I don't think you can really know that feeling. Like people are probably listening to me say this and they're like, oh, bitch, you could have got past it. Like who cares if somebody comes up to you every day? but it creates a feeling inside that you can't shove away and I was like you know what fuck this I need to get this all off my chest that was a fucked up situation I'm tired of it being glorified through the show and I'm tired of everybody just thinking it was so great and perfect because it wasn't yeah so it came from this need for me to just really spill my guts that was just really organic. And since then, I feel like there's a value in talking about it because I feel like it helps other people who are in, you know, narcissistic relationships or relationships that are emotionally

abusive. And I feel like it's helpful to people. It's very healing for you also, though, to be able to just tell your story, get it off your chest and let the world just devour it how they will yeah for sure you and Kendra can we touch base on that what happened there with you guys it was a lot and you know I blame a lot of it on that producer of the show because he did her spinoffs for quite a while she moved to a different network after E and I know what it feels like to be working for this person who's like hovering over you and trying to like keep you loyal to Playboy so I can't even place all the blame on her reactions on her because I know what it's like to be influenced by that person yeah but I just you know we've been at odds with each other for probably like the last 10 years. Have you guys ever been able to sit down and have a conversation? No, because I, I would be open to that, but I don't feel like

it would be genuine. I felt like after we left the mansion, I felt like we had a positive friendship or acquaintanceship or old time sake friendship or whatever you want to call it. But it got to the point where she was getting really weird with me and she would do all these interviews and be like, oh, I'm not friends with Holly and Bridget. And kind of this, and we were like, oh, that's news to us. Okay. I thought we were all supportive. That's hurtful.

Yeah. Especially because you guys built something together. Yeah. Indirectly, but you know, you guys still built it together. Yeah, it was weird. And I reached out to her over text when she had retweeted something that I thought was hurtful and it just turned into a fight and it's been downhill ever since but the reason I think we've never got together and talked it out is just I don't trust her yet I don't think she's like at a place because she was doing this real estate show and she or her people asked Bridget and I both to come on it separately.

And I don't want to do it because I do not trust reality show producers at all after what I've been through. And, you know, we could sit down and have the most real conversation. No blame on anybody. No heroes, no villains. But her show is only going to make her look good. So why the hell would I do that? And also, why wouldn't you want to sit down with you personally before having you come on a show?

It's almost like they wanted to play out on the show. Yeah, and that was my problem when we had our falling out 10 years ago is I'm like, this shit with you is always fake. It's always for your show or because you want this story in this tabloid cycle. And it was just exhausting. I hate that for you guys. Hopefully she'll'll I think age kind of humbles you too because she's a lot younger right like six years younger yeah she's pushing 40 now so I feel like yeah there's no excuse well it's just like over the years with all our conflict people are gonna be like she's so young because they remember like

yeah old Kendra right I always thought she was like a lot younger I think a lot of people thought that because I was so buttoned up on the show and like stiff and just like pearls in a sweater set and she's like messy bun like looking and acting way younger than she is right it's only a six-year age difference well I never knew that that's crazy does Holly want to get married again I'm not opposed to it but because I'm a romantic but it's not like on my goal list either because I already was married I I'm a romantic, but it's not like on my goal list either because I already was married. I already had my dream wedding. So it's not like this thing that needs to be checked off. What about more kids?

I think my hands are full for now. If women could have kids at an older age, I would be like, yeah, maybe I'd have another set like after they're grown. But life is way too hectic now. Like the way, you know, having joint custody and, you know, wanting to be there for your kids and also have a career like I there's no way I could balance like having another set. There's no way. No matter how in love you are. Would you ever do a surrogate? No, no. She's like, hell no, no, no more fucking kids. No, I totally get it. Holly, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. Why don't I mean, everybody coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Why don't, I mean, everybody should know where to find you, but if they can't, why don't you shout out where they can find you like on your socials? I'm Holly Jean Madison on TikTok, Holly Madison on Instagram and Twitter and all the other things. And my podcast, Girls Next Level Podcast is anywhere you find podcasts.

Yay. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I will see you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of dumb blonde i will see you guys next week bye