Dumb Blonde - Joanna Angel and Aaron (Small Hands) Part 2: Boundaries and Blow Jobs

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

In Part 2 with Joanna Angel and Aaron (Small Hands), these punk rock kids turned lovers share how their first date almost didn't happen. Aaron talks about his first role in an adult movie and what it was like for him to be launched into the stardom as one of the most sought after males. They talk with Bunnie about their choice to leave LA and become full New York people, how they mix business and pleasure together as a couple, and what's next for them in this new era. Joanna Angel:  Website  Aaron (Small Hands:) IG  Watch Full Episodes & More: www.dumbblondeunrated.com  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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gonna be here and i and even at some point when she knew i was gonna come here i could feel it through the text she was like whatever bro like okay yeah and the next day i was just like hey i am super sorry if you want to tell me to fuck off it's cool but i will drive up now like right now to la i'll drive three hours like can we have lunch can we do something just to make up like like if you'll give me a shot and she was like is this thing on all right gentlemen coming to main stage next this is bunny get up there she's got a tornado of titties coming your way get those dollar bills ready she's got an ass that shakes like michael j fox so get up there and throw, throw, throw them dollars. Dude, that is fucking iconic. All right, come up to, like, today.

Come up today. How are you feeling, Joanna? Were you, like, excited? Or were you just like, this dude's not going to show up again? You know, I was, no, I think at that point I knew he was going to show up because I made him feel like shit. Yeah, she did.

I was like, I mean, it was one of those things. I'm like, okay, if he shows up today, you know, there's a chance. If he doesn't, I'm never trying this again. You know, this is it. I'm going back to just talking about t-shirts. Through email. I might even find someone.

Through email, fuck Gchat. He's going straight to email again. He's going back to email. And I remember, yeah, our first date was basically we went to this grimy little british pub in van nuys in the valley down the street from where she lived and we ended up talking for like three hours it was like brunch and then it was dinner you know and nothing about sex either what it was was we it's, we were both basically like punk rock kids who thought

the other one might be like a poser. So I was like, okay, you've got all these tattoos. I still think he's a poser. Oh my God. That's a whole, we can have a whole podcast about that. But so basically we talked for three hours about music. That's really all it was. What bands would you like?

Whoa, you're into them? Oh, I've got this tattoo. And literally, I don't think we talked about your job or sex at all. No, no, no. And I actually remember specifically, and I would actually do this anytime I went on like a date with a guy at that time in my life. I didn't wear any makeup like at all because I was like, if they don't like me like this, like I don't want to hang out with them, you know?

Yeah. You were cute as hell. I like very, I put on like chapstick and like, you know, whatever. You're very beautiful with or without makeup. Yeah. I just was like, oh, if he doesn't like like the real me, there's no point. You know, like I have enough people I could, you know, that get the, I don't even like to call it the fake.

Yeah, exactly. Like I have enough people to work with, you know, like I want someone to have like a real life with. So I remember I wore very little makeup. We someone to to have like a real life with so i remember i wore very little makeup we just walked to the like little little bar down the street i went there all the time anyway it was a british pub and yeah and we over uh scotch egg and mushy peas and yeah and a couple whiskey cokes we bonded it was rocket from the crypt because rocket from the crypt was was one of my favorite bands especially when i was in college and i

remember that it was a very small niche thing. If you had a rocket from the Crypt tattoo, you could get into all their shows for free. And that's something not... That's a great marketing tool too. And this was a thing that existed when I was back in college. It was in the early 2000s.

It was late 90s, early 2000s. And there weren't that many people like it was not a very big band to begin with let alone the people who had that tattoo and i just remember seeing that tattoo i was like did you get the tattoo to and i remember we actually said at the same time to get in the show for free it was one of those moments it was like that moment i was like all right this poor guy now he's gonna have to marry me and i was kind of like i just knew from then i was like fuck and at the time i still he can't leave i still uh i still own my business in san diego so i i stayed the night we didn't she we didn't have sex she did give me a blowjob only i found

out later i found out later you can tell why later. You can tell why. Because I remember during the date, like everything he was saying, we had so much in common and we were like finishing each other's sentences and we were like laughing and having the time of our lives. So of course, at some point, after like three bloody marries,

I was like, there's only, this guy is so perfect. He probably has a small penis. Like why else would he be single? What's wrong with him? That's what I was why else would he be what's wrong with him that's what i was thinking there has to be something wrong with him and i was like oh my god that's gonna really suck if he has a small penis would it have been oh my god no no no deal if he had a small you know that that was a tough thing for me you know i i wish i could say no it wouldn't matter but it would you know at, at least, you know,

it's weird. It's like, that was something that never like, like people, I think girls in the industry go one way or the other. Like once they start porn, like they want smaller penises because like, because they're, they're like, you know, they see too much at work. But for me, I had never seen like a giant penis until porn. And once I started with it, I was like, wow, this is so much better. Like the first time I had sex with a big penis.

I was like, no, this is so much better than a small penis. And it just did make me into a bit of a size queen. That's all right. I mean, it just happened. It's not. And you know, it's not right because of a guy goes on a date with a girl and guys are like specifically into girls with boobs or specifically into girls with butts you know if the girl you're on a date with has boobs or butt or something yeah but you don't know if you are just somebody who happens to sexually be in

you know yeah penises turn me on i mean what can i say you know you can't tell and it's you can't ask and if a guy does just send you a dick pic right away then he's a scumbag so it's very complicated so it's like an instant turn off yeah but it's like you really want to see it but then you're mad that they sent it and you're like yeah it's a whole thing i've never ever sent you a dick pic even even to this day she sucked you off the first time she met you she didn't need one i know but i do remember i've actually never sent anyone a dick pic ever. Asking our friend Brian.

I always thought it was stupid. I was like, yeah, it's weird. Guys who keep dick pics like on rotation on their phone are a certain type of dude. I just never understood

how that would lead to like getting laid. Yeah. No, I totally understand. That's one way. You don't want that. Yeah. So after the first night.

So then it was established that his penis was not small. Yeah. So the blowjob was really for like, you research research purposes i mean listen i'm and i was like i'm gonna be good i'm like not gonna have sex with him for a little while and that did not happen well i mean you guys had like our third date yeah third date it was actually the third day and then i remember being like I'm going to make sure to not have anal sex with him. Because that'll really show up. She kept putting stipulations.

That'll really like. She kept trying to hold out, but then she was her own worst enemy with it. It made her think about it more. You're not even thinking about it. No, I was just like mind blown that she wanted to hang out with me. Like as if like that was going to make you. How did you feel about her after you hung out with her uh i liked her a lot i liked her a lot and i i was i was still

intimidated though and i was still kind of overwhelmed because she's a big personality and she's she's a lot and you know i i have in my own way a big personality but i'm a little more like not as loud i'm not as loud and uh suave would be giving me a little too much credit and so I almost didn't feel like it was real like I remember I so I stayed the night and I owned a business I had to be there at fucking 8 30 in the morning and drive through so I drove at like 4 45 a..m. home straight to work. I was like, what just happened? Of course, all the guys, when they get there, so, so, and I'm like, I think it was good. I think it went well.

It's kind of hard to say. You think maybe you felt like you weren't deserving of that? Not even that. I just, to put it very bluntly, I'm like, she's very famous and rich and successful, and I am none of those things currently. So why would she even want to mess with me? She could have anyone. So to me, I always just thought, is there something like, there's got to be a catch here. And then you realize I was crazy.

That's the catch. I think you're crazy. And now I realize I was crazy. That's the catch. I think you're crazy. And now I realize it a lot. But hey, 11 years later, you're still here, buddy. So crazy must. Blink twice if you need help. Crazy must be, you know, I think she's probably a good crazy. No, I like crazy.

I love crazy. In my own personal opinion, I think I'm a very good crazy. She's like, in my opinion, I'm the best. I think I'm the best. I definitely, I mean, since I was young, my biggest dream was to have a life of adventure. Yeah. Because you didn't have it, right? You know, growing up.

I just liked the idea of saying yes to every weird cool right thing right and to pursue every weird cool thing because like that we're here like why would i want to spend like a lifetime doing or pursuing like mediocrity right or absolutely that's why you know even at the time when i met her, I wasn't successful by most terms or accomplished, but I was always like gunning for it. I was in my bands or in the songs I wrote or in the business I was running. I was always like, no, we're going to take this as far as we can. We're going to work our asses off.

We're going to have a great time doing it. And then when we get old, we're going to sit on the porch and be like, look at this shit. I love that. So take me on a journey. Now you guys are together. You guys obviously decided to make it work. and be like, look at this shit. I love that. So take me on a journey now. You guys are together. You guys obviously decided to make it work. When did you start getting into porn?

Because you were still doing porn while you were with him, correct? So for almost, God, it was like two and a half years. Because I did not want to be in porn. I was not a boyfriend who started dating her secretly hoping. I actually, and it sounds very strange sitting here today to say this but i really did not want to be in porn i because for two years i would come and i was like her assistant i would i'd be making tacos for the people fucking like for lunch i'd be i love that i would be handing them my husband's the same way i would be handing them their release forms i'd wipe up the fucking jizz off the floor sometimes whatever you know and so but doing that i got to watch how this business worked and i got to watch what it took to be a male

performer and it's you know and i've been doing this now for years and it's still like it's it's the it's the craziest fucking job i think you can have yeah and it's crazy on all aspects and for all talent of all genders um but but for a male the the erection factor you you know a woman or a person who identifies as a woman can fake it you know can yell make a big scene but if you have a soft dick that is yeah that's the whole day stops and and I would watch seasoned professionals at their best and I'd watch them at their worst. And I would sit there and I'm like, no, absolutely fucking not.

Do I want to do this job? Yeah, it's a lot of pressure. And I never viewed, kind of like her though initially, I never viewed myself as that either. I was like, you know, I'm like the emo guy in a band and I play my songs. But I'm not like a big testosterone, you know, chest pumping alpha, traditionally speaking. And that's what a lot of the guys at least were 10 years ago were and it's it is changing now but um so when she at some point was like hey like you know like why don't you like like just fuck me for like a movie

or two and and i was just like i'm good like like i'd rather clap from the sidelines make you guys food and basically how she happened with with lost like footage at first do you remember that's what it was you're right i had shot a bunch of fuck i forgot yeah do you remember this sounds made up but this is actually how it really happened like that but yeah when we met and and i always told myself because i know that happens to like so many girls i was like i am not ever going to quit porn for a man you know yeah ever she laid that out and i made that very clear i was like please do you remember she said don't ever make me choose because i will choose porn not you yeah

i said that stability yeah i mean also at the time i'm like this isn't even just like a job for me this is my whole world. I owned a business. I was like, there are several people who make a living off of, you know, and, and my business, like I am, you know,

like, and I'm like, but because I own the business and because of my, I was like, I can have, you know, I can do a lot of things that other people can't do. So I do remember when we first started dating,

I didn't film. I just kind of changed the production schedule a little. I didn't film anything for like a few months so we could like have our like honeymoon you know honeymoon phase without me you know whatever so that but after a few months i was like all right dude i gotta i gotta gotta get back to jump back on that gang bang horse you know you know and i kind of pushed things i was able to really make my own schedule you know i would do things where i would try to like i was like okay i'm gonna shoot like every day this month and then I'm not gonna have to shoot again for another couple months and you know I've tried to do things because our relationship was really important to me and and I was you know and I was in a respect yeah and I was in a position where I was able to do

that so and he didn't ask me to do that but and you were just always cool with it you were like whatever you gotta do no that would it wasn't I was always cool with it but i wasn't prepared for it's so unique it is really unique and and i've never been a jealous person or controlling um but you know i was like wow like i'm like you know she kissed me like all right i'm off to work and then be like on twitter you you know, gangbangs and shit. It took a lot. Yeah, it was a lot of me going, I don't understand how I'm supposed to act or feel in this situation. And to her credit, Joanna was always really patient and really thorough with like communication and talking. And while she never...

And I also held my ground. Yeah, she never like bended or or or like made um but i'm here for you it was respectful yeah and i you know i've and i've seen so many girls kind of make unrealistic promises to men when they're trying and it really sucks i feel like i see this happen worse than you know drugs in porn or or anything that people think is the demise of like you know most girls in porn it's a toxic relationship i saw it as a director i would see it all the time where a girl would be in a great mood and they get their makeup done and they're like oh i'm horny i can't wait to have sex i can't wait for this i love the script oh my god this outfit's

so cool like fuck yeah so excited oh hey i'm gonna go make a quick phone call and then i'm ready to start and they go outside and they make their phone call and they come back and it's like a ghost is in the room you know and they're shaking and they're not comfortable because i know i knew and i knew from being in shitty relationships myself where it's like okay i don't mind if you do porn but like before you do the scene before you go suck another dick you need to call me you know what i mean so i would tell him i'm like you know because I even remember once I was like, look, in the days I'm on set, I'm directing. I don't know how often I'll get to, I will communicate with you when I can.

It's not, you know what I mean? I don't know if I can call you before. Communication is key. I don't know. Yeah. So I didn't make any unrealistic promises and I didn't, I didn't like make any promises, you know, that I couldn't keep. And I was just very open and honest cause I had nothing to hide.

Also, I had been through it before where I I want you know other girls in the industry to know too because I like I I was dating a guy and you know he was like just decided like every time I do a scene he could fuck someone else and I agreed to this preposterous thing being like okay that's that's fair that's fair you know like as long as you're cool with me doing porn that's i guess a good compromise and that is there's nothing you can compare it to like having a one-night stand is not at all compared to going to work like a one-night stand even if like you like there's no way to have zero feelings at all you you're you're fucking because you you two people are attracted to each other yeah no one's paid yeah both the guy and the girl on set in porn you're both showing up to work you're both getting there's a third

party that brings you together so even if you do wind up having the greatest sex of your life on set like the reason why you're both there is for the same reason you know what i mean and there's a start and an end it's a controlled environment whatever there's nothing i think a lot of people don't understand that and i think that you guys are such an inspiration for couples that are in the industry even outside of the industry because you guys have to be fucking like bulletproof almost because of the industry that you're in you have to set boundaries but like and i'm so inspirational to see you guys navigate but you know we also knew like i mean we're like jumping

around with you know timelines and this and that and porn is in a much different like place now i i want to you know i sold my company in 2019 we'll start talking about that um but uh but um you know uh it was kind of funny because in the beginning of our relationship he it was like he was dating me i was in porn you know and he wasn't and it took and then when he got in right it felt like my performing was kind of like i wasn't performing as much anymore and then he started oh 2013 it actually felt like the tables had turned and i was dating like i was the person outside of porn dating someone in porn because well once my career took off it really took off so let's talk

oh yeah wait the footage story right i was gonna reel it back so let's do this so anyway and then we'll talk about how you sold your company and then how his career took off um i was uh uh i so like we were gonna i think it was right before christmas or something we were gonna go away together for like a week or something and so i wanted to shoot a bunch of stuff before I went away. You know what I mean? So I wouldn't have to think about it anyway. So I did like a whole day of like shooting a whole bunch of content, whatever.

Um, and I was like, okay. And then something happened with the footage and it got damaged. Like the hard drive. Yeah. And so I had no updates for my website. And then my editors,

like I'm trying to figure it out, like blah, blah, blah. And she's like, we don't have anything. And I was oh my god and you know and my my website had like a very strict like update schedule and then and it was this was for actually for joannaangel.com um and uh I just remember being like hey let's just um shoot something and I happen to have a

little like camcorder that I brought with me when we traveled anyway and I would shoot like little solo things or like whatever um and I was like can I just like give you a blow job you know whatever we don't have to show your face you know like I just need something to update my website with and that was really how it started and so we wound up filming this like blowjob scene. Were you nervous? Not for that because I was just in a hotel room. But the first time I had to do a real scene with the crew in production, yeah, I was shitting my pants. And then it's like I put it on the website and then we wound up shooting a couple things that day. We shot like a blowjob thing.

And then I think the next day we shot like a little like a quick little sex scene in the shower or something. And then when girls were working for me, I'd'd be like what guy do you want to work with look on the website and see what guy like you like you know and they kept asking for my boyfriend you know we're like I want to work with him sometimes we'd be on set and I'd walk in and the talent would be like oh are you the guy to yeah I'm like oh I'm just making the tacos yeah so that was at me yeah and I'd be like oh that guy's like not And I'm like, oh, I'm just making the tacos. Yeah. So that was at me. Yeah. And I'd be like, oh, that guy's like not really, I'm sorry. No, that's just my boyfriend and he just like has sex with me.

He's on limits. Yeah, yeah. I was a contract star exclusive to her. So for a while, he was just like working, you know, doing stuff with me.

But girls kept like requesting him, you know. Were you wanting him to work with other girls or were you cool with him just working with you? Because is probably hard well at some point what you actually did you started adding other girls well and your her her business sense kicked in and basically she approached me and was like hey you know can you a couple times a month film one or two porn scenes for my for burning angel and i was like

no i'm good and she's like well let me explain to you this way she's like i own this company and every time a guy walks in and fucks me or someone else i have to write him a check and that's that's out of my money and she's like if you are that guy and you're doing it for me i save money and that's one less guy i need to fuck. I was basically, I was free labor for like two years for Joanna's company. I love that you took one for the team. So for the first two years of my career, I only worked for her company. And it was either with her or her directing me fuck other girls or threesomes or whatever. And I didn't get paid anything.

And I still at that point, I was not thinking this would be a career for me. I was like, okay, I'm helping her out. I was still pretty nervous. I still wasn't really having fun because my anxiety of it was so high. I was just always like, don't fuck up. Don't fail. Make sure you're all good. So the first three years of my porn career for me were actually really tough.

How was your first scene without without joanna uh the first what was that it was tendril lest wasn't it without you i think so i can't remember because you were just working with me and for me or with other girls and then yeah and then also there's another dynamic because most couples and adult the wife isn't also a director so i'm not only fucking different people, but now my wife is directing me with these people. And that's a whole unique dynamic. Also, his own business was kind of going down

and he felt guilty like, oh, I'm not like contributing. I'm like, but you're doing this like helps me. I was financially not in the best place. And she basically was like, shut your business down and come fuck some girls. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. And you know, the business, whatever, a lot of things were going on and changing.

She's like, you're not a good businessman, but you're cute and you got a nice dick. Let's go. You know. I love that, though. I mean, it's almost like, you know, when you date someone that owns a restaurant, you're going to wind up working in the restaurant. You know, it's kind of like Burning Angel was my whole life. Right.

You know, and it just, he was kind of along for the ride anyway. And he kept like taking off work to come on trips with me. I was already helping in non-sexual ways. And like, yeah, he was setting up booths at convention. He was kind of doing so much anyway. He was already like there all the time. And like, it just, you know, just kind of made sense. So you ended up selling Burning Angel when?

Oh, that was until, so when did you officially start porn? So I started for you in 2013 but i didn't start for the world really at large till like 2015 and that's when like i really went i was working like 25 days a month i didn't sell almost every single day i was on the set in 2019 okay um and you know uh there were many factors that uh went into the decision i mean the first factor that went into it is that um i got an offer that i knew i wasn't gonna get again right um but you know it was a whirlwind you know i i i you built a fucking iconic yeah but there was a time i mean i'll i remember you know like life was just so busy and then Aaron became this big star.

And I, you know, it was very exciting that Aaron's career like took off and was going so far. But like, do you manage him? I kind of, what? Do you manage him? Well, I guess I was. She sort of always has unofficially. you know, at a certain point, I mean, I felt like we were kind of, you know, losing each other in a way,

you know, like, like being a male performer takes, takes everything out of you, you know, 25 days a month. And yeah, and it does affect your sex life.

Any breaks. Cause he, he had to save his kind of sexual energy for set, you know, so we weren't really like having much sex anymore unless we were doing a scene on camera. Yeah, a lot of our sex life in that time was on camera. It just became on camera and like, you know, and then I just like. You get disconnected emotionally.

Yeah, also, you know, a lot of things were going on with the business. I was dealing with, you know, competing against like, you know, free porn and this and that, you know, like dealing with like. A beautiful and raw moment that you can share with everybody knowing that you guys were had hit that low point and other couples being able to see you guys go through that low point and still come out yeah i don't know how many people really you know i mean we we've always we've always tried to like i i like um what's the word like we we don't we're not reality stars you know we like having a private life and then we like having what we do um but at some point you know people should be aware that

you know uh while it's really flattering and it's like honoring to to have these compliments about us like we go we've gone through some gnarly shit you know yeah i love that about you that makes you guys real people i i know i know the dialogue everybody wants to hear is like i think everybody just assumes we're in an open relationship too which so i think everybody wants to hear i think it's awesome when he fucks girls and he thinks it's awesome when i fuck guys and every day we're just like yeah everybody let's just both have sex with lots of people and we come home and we high five and this like everybody wants to think and there's like elements of that but yeah it's not not everything's so cut and dry everybody thinks me and jay are in an open relationship yeah i don't know how to explain

it to people right like yeah we're not so many we're not in a a wardenship that's too black and white of a term right there's fluidity that like exactly i said i said once we're not open we're just open for business right absolutely right no i get it i get it like and it all it's context too because it compared to some couples in the world we're extremely open right and then compared to some of our friends we're prudes you know so we we exist where we exist you know in this middle ground you know it it got hard and then you know like everybody you know a lot of a lot of girls just you know love aaron very much you know so like it becomes hard as a you know as a wife you know like i'm kind of like an older

person in the porn industry an older person in general and then you know there's like these 20 year olds going on twitter as soon as they're done with the scene being like i am so in love with this guy holy shit i can't stop coming i just had the best orgasm and someone's like i'm really happy you guys had a good scene but like can this just like this can you just keep a few things like can you just post a photo it would be like a little bit of tact and i know well for you a lot of people don't have much tact but common sense isn't so common anymore. And a lot of times it doesn't necessarily come from a bad place. I mean, what's wrong with being excited about work?

But because of the nature of the work, you have to be like aware of your partner and how they are and how they might respond to it. Like, you know, we both do like to high five each other and think shit's cool, but there's still a boundary. There's still like you know um i we both do like like to high-five each other and think shit's cool but there's still a boundary there's still yeah i mean we made it's just respect tiny bits of respect but not from you guys only but just from the people that you guys work with too yeah but um at a certain point i did realize you know like i think i always wanted my life to just be this 24 77 like in the porn industry I'm very all or nothing about like everything I do um and I just remember having

like a conversation with Aaron in the kitchen he was very tired he had worked for like 70 days in a row we had barely seen each other you know I was getting really exhausted my business was in the middle of a kind of tedious court case with the health department and like I was dealing with like lawyers I was dealing with like budget issues and depositions and, you know, kind of just like trying to finish a script and, and like, you know, and I just remember feeling like, like, this is like, like, like, you know, I, and, you know, and I was like missing the early days of, you know, I don't know. I was just just like we need to like figure out um yeah like i love that you

guys were so self-aware to be able to come yeah like hey look we're losing each other yeah it doesn't matter what else is going on in our lives us is what matters yeah yeah and um so i was like i think it's i think it's time I sell my business you know what I mean like I think I'm I think it's time and you know um and and that was a tough a tough thing first of all I didn't even know if it was possible I mean you know not that many people but you know it was kind of one of these things like um I was like I don't know if we need to like live happily ever after in the porn industry you know like like i love the industry so much like i loved the industry like was my boyfriend it was my

husband it was my family you know and like um it was just sort of this like weird moment where it was like maybe maybe like i need to focus more on just you know us instead of me you know climbing in this in this business and trying to you know whatever and him climbing in the business yeah yeah i mean the working 70 days and you know in the spirit of like honesty you have to remember i never wanted to do this right so i was now sort of reluctantly in this i i love the spotlight i play in bands you know i'm not i'm a fucking ham but i never really wanted this spotlight and so now i have the pressure of being this a-list guy which is you know it's a lot of pressure no for sure i i compare it being to being

like a mma fighter except the mma fighters and box, they only do like two matches a year. Right. Yeah, they're not doing it every day. Because when the bell rings, you better be ready. Absolutely. And it's pass fail. You either are victorious or you are the one on the floor

in the blood and you're looking like an idiot. And for porn though, okay, go do that every fucking day. Every day. I couldn't imagine. And that, it affected my mental health a lot.

Absolutely. Negatively. And it wasn't the sex. It's the pressure. Oh, for sure. The sex was actually the only fun part about it. Right. You know, but everything surrounding it for me, and I felt like a, what's the word?

I felt like a fool for turning it down because i was like who gets these opportunities and and for the first time in my life i was like i've never made this much money before like what and so i almost just out of like some sense of like guilt poverty or something was like i need to fucking do this and i need to be successful and this is her world so what kind of a boyfriend would i be if i couldn't hang it's's also that, and I hope this does not, we are absolutely like both of us, especially me, you know, like I love the industry. Like I hope this doesn't come across as like.

No, I love porn too, but it's just tricky because I. I think people need to see this. Yeah. Yeah. Me and you both have a love for porn, but it's from different places and for different reasons. Absolutely. But my whole career was based out of like i love for you oh and i think um also i started to realize i was getting i mean my porn career lasted for much longer than and it's so weird

i'm talking like a retired person and i'm in just such a strange spot right now because like i still do boy girl i still i still do scenes i have an only fans i even i flew out to do a few studio scenes like a couple months ago but just people are so weird about porn like like they don't understand that like just because porn i have like other things going on now and it's not my 24 7 bubble right and whatever and i i all started aaron's having a hard time over here i feel so bad i am i'm good yeah i also realized like i'm a hugger so anytime you one of you guys starts crying i want to get up and i'm a cancer so i cry all the time coming back to to family which is what we talked about at first it was like everything was just so crazy and chaotic like ever since i like moved to LA to like yeah it was a

world and everything just like boom boom boom boom boom but you know the only time I felt like centered and calm and normal was when I went to go see my family back on the east coast you know go hang out like with my sister in Brooklyn and I'd have like the time of my life I'd go see my family on Jewish holidays that I like disowned you know i i like didn't want anything to do with these jewish holidays now i was like looking forward to like going home for rosh hashanah or something like that just because of like this this nice normal tradition where it wasn't about like like you know some being job opportunity being this or being that and people loved you for you not for your performance exactly they loved me before they loved me during the you know and it just I always felt very calm and something about just like that

culture of LA where like everyone's climbing all the time everyone's climbing yeah I started to feel trapped in that too where it's just like it was my dream for Burning Angel to do this and then we did it and then it was my dream to do this and then we did it and then i wanted to win this award and then i won it and then i wanted this and then i wanted this and there was always like another goal another goal another goal and it was just like it was like you know if i just keep doing this i'm gonna lose my mind you know what i mean like it was just kind of and then every time i came back east i felt more centered you know and every time um i don't know and then how did you and aaron get back on track after you had that conversation i mean it's still a journey you know i mean is anyone i had to leave

la no you know we had to just like get out of this cycle because like even whatever we would do to kind of scale back a little bit like it's like it's like moving out of la was the greatest thing i kind of made that decision. I was just like, this was a weird process. I mean, it's kind of weird because it's been about a year now. Yeah. I think I've been following you guys since you moved. Yeah.

I remember last year in November, this started as me booking an Airbnb to spend Thanksgiving with my family. I'm like, well, because a lot of the stuff I was doing in LA, like once I sold my business, I was like, that was the first time I was like, why am I here? Like I sold my business. I came here for this, you know, and I get older. Your heart and your soul yearn for different things. Yeah, it was almost like we were in our 20s is not what we want. Yeah, it was like, go, go, go, go, go, go.

And then once I actually had time to breathe, I like well why am I here you know like I don't this is not really my home this is where I came to work right you know and now that I'm not really working that much and like I have time to like relax a little bit I'm not relaxed here I just feel like I should keep doing more things you know it just something if there was just something toxic in the air and I couldn't really explain it and then I'm Aaron you know it just something if there was just something toxic in the air and i couldn't really explain it and then i'm aaron you know he wound up like i told him he was just kind of starting to like mentally you know break down and he really wanted to like i was losing my mind he was losing his mind and i was like aaron i don't want you at the time and he had a great amazing

like thank you you guys are like incredible like he had a contract with with browsers you know and and it came time i literally had I literally had the best contract. Why were you losing your mind just from the pressure and the constant stress? It was a hamster wheel that never ended. And also, a lot of people don't realize, too, to be a porn performer, even if you're not on set, you're kind of 24-7 always working. You've got to watch what you eat. You've got to work out.

You've got to watch what you put in your body. You to be this you got to be that you got to take these supplements you know like it's and so i just felt like not a like a person anymore yeah and i i started to feel that way too so when it came time for like a renewal it was contract you know i i was like aaron we're fine you know with like and i, and I still shoot for whatever money I, uh, I'm shooting for browsers next month, but I scaled it back. He had to take a hard stop. I took a whole year off completely. And now I do. And now I just do enough that you guys realize your worth now, though, too. Like you don't have to be a workhorse. You are, you guys have built such a name. Yeah. We made it to the top of the mountain. So to speak. And so now you guys get to say,

hey, this is when I want to shoot for X amount of money. And like, you know, like you guys worked your asses off to be able to do that. Yeah, I feel very fortunate. You know, like, like I feel very, I don't take this for granted. I know that the position we're in is a great position to be in.

But you guys worked hard for it. Yeah, we worked hard for it. It's not like it was just given to you. You guys really put in the work. You can't walk to the top of a mountain. You got to climb it. You got to put in the work. So for a while, he took just like kind of a hard stop.

I was like, just stop doing everything until you feel whatever. When you guys stopped doing porn, though, do you guys feel like a sense of like emptiness or like where do I belong? I never really stopped. She's never stopped. And I only took a break. But I scaled back.

So to speak, you know. But COVID forced everyone to kind of, you know, revisit or whatever. But anyway, I just remember, so I just, I remember last November now looking at my schedule, which I was like, I literally only have to be in LA

like four days all of November so maybe instead of just going home for Thanksgiving I'll just stay home you know I'll stay back and I just kind of like this started with me just like getting an Airbnb to stay there for the holidays and then once I was there for a week and Aaron was it was still like at home in LA and once I was yeah working a week and Aaron was it was still like at home in LA and once I was yeah working or you were you were working on your I was working on an album I don't know we were and once I was back for like two weeks even you know I just remember telling Aaron I'm like I have like like I have to move back here like I feel so normal like I felt like I was able to like breathe above water and I was like okay and Like I felt like I was able to like breathe above water. And I was like, okay. And like the plan was I was going to go there,

be with my family. And then Aaron was going to come and meet me for Thanksgiving. And I was like, I want you to see like, if you want to live here, but at that point, How did that make you feel when she was saying that she wanted to move back? I knew it was coming. Yeah. I mean, we had been going to New York for years, you know, constantly. And every time we were there, I'd see it on her face. I'd see it in her disposition. And it was for me, I just was like, well, at some point we will. I just didn't really know when.

Like how soon. Yeah, but it was always in my mind, like, I bet we'll wind up. It just always felt like home. He said, I bet we'll wind up. Well, and because I didn't feel any attachment to LA. Yeah. And, you know, not to sound like a downer but my family's scene back in san diego is non-existent so i don't really i kind of float around like a like a gypsy like a wanderer you know and i i uh go where the wind

blows and where the adventure goes that's usually with her yeah yeah full rolling stone and then also just everything kind of happened you know i also always told myself well i remember when i first got into porn i was like i was like oh i could do this till i'm 30 i could do this till i'm 35 i could do this till i'm 40 i think every girl in the industry yeah i know and then now i'm like but yeah i wound up getting a you know when after i sold the business i started looking for other things I wound up getting a, you know, when, after I sold the business, I started looking for other things. I wound up getting a job with Liquid Death. And it just so happened around the time when I got a job at Liquid Death, they had said they were gonna, they were opening up distribution in New York.

New York was the last city they actually got distribution in America. And they were like talking about how they were going to need more people in New York. And this was right when I was like thinking of moving back. So I was like, well, I can be that person in New York. So everything kind of just happened.

So what do you do for liquid death? Exactly. So I work, I work in their lifestyle marketing department. So I work in the marketing department. It's me. Liquid death is now officially dumb blondes water. Yeah.

She sent me so many boxes of it. Yeah. So it's here. Drink it. Hydrate. Yes. So yeah, everything just kind of,

it kind of just started to all weirdly fall into place. Like, you know, thank, I don't know, only fans that kind of gave everyone in freedom where you don't have to be in Los Angeles attached to studios and we can kind of like do things at the pace that we want you know what I mean and you know it could it can exist in the background of anything else you do you could put it more in the foreground if you feel like it or

you could use it you could use it as a hustle or a side hustle or both you can use it as as whatever you want it to be so that was something I wasn't expecting like after I sold my business I was kind of just expecting everything to sort of wind down and like I was just gonna curtsy out of the industry and then like during COVID like everyone was like you gotta get on OnlyFans you gotta get on OnlyFans like it just doesn't sound like something that would work for me and then like when it did really well I was like okay well that's what happened to me i was like i was not expecting to get another like hurrah out of my porn years you know i was like girl you really thought it was the end you know you can do this as long as you want to you're yeah i think at this point it's safe to say i'm

just gonna do it forever but yeah but i know everybody i'm gonna be on only grands yeah i swear to god like as long as people want to see my saggy titties, I will be on there. I'm not even fucking kidding. Yeah. And I love it, you know, and I still, like I said, I still work with other guys, you know, like, but it's not quite as often and it's more compartmentalized now, which I do think is very healthy. Being in New York, like where the industry is not there. I'll like go to Miami for a week and work on content and then not think about it for a month or two.

And you don't have to live in it yeah I'm not living in it like and actually going to LA to work for a few days and then going back home to New York which it still feels just so great to say every time I say it like it actually I was like I wonder what my career would have been like if I never moved to LA because I I felt like I got so much done because I was trying to pack a lot in when I was there and then I got to leave done because I was trying to pack a lot in when I was there and then I got to leave it was a different industry back then though you know it was you really had to be there you really had to be there but like it was a healthy experience to like go have a great day on set see people like do whatever and then like three days later

just go back home it really helped kind of compartmentalize it in a way when i exactly and i've been just for myself i'm working on you know just being a person like i'm like cooking and running marathons and having i love that you're running marathons i think that's so fucking awesome i was rooting for you doing you know aaron's been just working on all the all the things he loved to do before right yeah i mean i've been putting out albums the whole time i never stopped working on music but at some point it i got really depressed because that was the one thing i swore to myself i would never nothing would ever take over that right and all of a sudden i was like wow porn really took over that and so the last couple years

have been just really like a a search for balance i think and like trying to enjoy the porn enjoy the music enjoy this enjoy regular life enjoy the marriage you know but to do that meant removing at least myself from porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn and i don't even think there's anything wrong with that i think it was a necessary stepping stool to where we are now it got us somewhere but i mean and i and i i don't like regret doing it i i'm very proud of it um but now that i'm 40 and you know like i it's it had its era and and now i'm happy with the the less volume and a little bit of a regular life yeah that's that's something foreign to us yeah you guys haven't really got to live a regular life these past you know what decade pretty much i mean the whole time in la

we've kind of been like public people 24 7 and now we can be like public people we feel like it right you can be regular ass people but regular new york people which is not that regular at all that's what i love about the city it's so weird i mean now we've been there for for a year and like i remember feeling this also for me it's weird like i'm living like a mile away from where i lived right before i moved to la so it almost feels like i blinked and had a weird dream that I became a porn star. Yeah, you're like, who is that girl? I don't even know her. Yeah, like who was that?

What happened? Isn't that crazy? I left here and came back. That's how I feel every time I go back to Vegas. We just bought a house there in, I don't know when, fucking a couple months ago. And that's where you grew up, right? Yeah, and so every time I go back there,

I'm like, who was the girl that fucking grew up here because i'm not that same girl you know i used to run through the casinos fucking robbing people and now it's you know it's funny because i feel like i'm very similar to the girl i was when i left i don't think i'm the girl i was in the in between the girl who was in la like grinding and climbing and and just i don't know trying to take over the world like you know like it's it's like so weird it's like it's like weird it's like I had a dream that I was that I was that person you know I love you guys a story it's really uh very nice to be here and I'm I'm glad that I like wanted to cry when when um I don't know it was tough I know for Aaron at first and i was a little worried i was worried that maybe we wouldn't make it because i knew i'm like i'm not a california person i need to leave and i

need to like work you know also aaron aaron's career still had plenty of room to keep going up mine but he really has only one way down so i really kind of but he loves it i bowed or i took a step back at the height of my whole career that's a boss move though but I had to right but still that's so cool that even if you didn't realize that you what you were doing at the time the fact that you were like you know what fuck this my mental health is so fucked right now fuck the porn fuck the money my marriage and my mental health is number one and you step down that's that's like the manliest thing a man can do. It was scary.

Yeah. Scary to do. I know. And then, you know, I know that like, I think if we would have just stayed in Los Angeles, like there would have been no way we could have,

but that's because it's like those chances and just kind of riding with the wind. The older I get, I used to be so fucking like everything has to be on schedule. I have to do this. I have to do that. And the older I get, I'm realizing that it's like has to be on schedule I have to do this I have to do that and the older I get I'm realizing that it's like what's meant to be is gonna be you know and it doesn't matter just as long as you learn how to coast it right the universe is gonna guide you I know you know um yeah and and we're um Aaron let's talk about your

music real quick before yeah so I listened to a little bit of it before you guys came it kind of reminds and i hope this isn't an insult because i'm a huge depeche mode fan oh that's the best compliment i can get yeah i mean i don't know you know people don't insult ding ding ding i don't know wrong with that okay but kids nowadays be like who's depeche mode you know but it's true i love depeche Mode so when I heard that I was like this is very Depeche Mode-esque thanks yeah I uh I've put out several records over the years and now I have a new uh group called Soft Faith with uh because the records I put out previously were just me alone I played everything I recorded everything so that people

can look it up uh the group is called Soft Faith that I'm in now. Okay, but it's a new group, yeah. And it's still the same kind of music. But the other records? The other records were under the name Empty Streets. So if you look up Empty Streets on Spotify. But those albums are basically like just me. I play everything. I write everything. I produced it all.

One man band. But it gets lonely. It gets lonely. So now I have a group with an actual human still doing similar kind of music. But it's, it's just becoming better and more better produced. And yeah.

So if everyone looks up soft faith or empty streets, you can hear some of my vocals for soft faith, soft faith music. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely go check that out. Next time we're in New York or New Jersey or doing the East coast, I could probably talk to him to let you open up for him.

That'd be, that would be insane. No, he would love that. That would be amazing. Yeah. New York or New Jersey or do on the East Coast I could probably talk to him to let you open up for him No, he would love that that would be amazing. Yeah, we actually just embarrassing way to listen to his music Great song. Wow It's mine. I'd never listened to my husband's music either until after I fucked up But he actually I had that would you know? there's a lot of artists that I listened to in my but he actually I had that there's a lot of artists

that I listened to in my a little younger days that remind me a lot of your husband and I was like I was so excited to hear that kind of country

so to speak I wasn't expecting I don't even know if that's what you call it I married a rapper just so you guys know my husband is a fucking phenomenal rapper

what really I went down a rabbit hole and I heard some of that yeah no I heard the whole spectrum I married a rapper and now we're going into country we literally how did that I don't I guess some of that. Yeah, no, I heard the whole spectrum. I've heard a rapper and now we're going into country.

We literally have to have. How did that? I don't know. I guess that's an interview with him. Yeah, he sure explains it somewhere. No, he does. So he put out like rap albums? Oh, yeah.

That's all he was. Under the name Jelly Roll? Jelly Roll, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm sorry. I don't know anything. No, you're fine. You're totally fine. I should do my research.

I know more about you than about him. I'm your biggest fan. No, you're totally fine. So when we had to have the conversation last night, I at him i was like baby you know i'm gonna have to fucking shut my only fans down now since you're going the country route because he's blowing up and on the country chart you're kidding no you'll make more than that hold on but my husband was like why i was like because they're gonna start coming at you he goes and then i'm gonna ask them why what are you watching it i mean listen to the lyrics of his song he's talking about being a

sinner we have a relationship like you guys you know like he's very when I got with him I was still escorting and he just told me but bunny you're not gonna have to do this forever he's like but you know do what you got to do I didn't retire until 2020 you know of being in the industry so and then I got on only fans to make up for it yeah yeah made up for it fucking tenfold you know I was like god if I knew everybody in China wanted to see my butthole i would have fucking done this a long time ago you know but yeah so i married a rapper i did not marry a country a country dude but you know we're you are not taking down your only fans no i will not let you i just you know the country these fucking music dude i i dated a band guy before aaron you know it was i was like on tour with their band i'm not even gonna

say what the name is because it doesn't matter yeah but like they used to like be like you guys can't post any photos together the manager you know would take away my phone like i remember like going with them on you know like a talk show you would think rock and and porn they don't because yeah and i was like so and some of the shit I saw like backstage and whatever just you know the like I was like god the music industry is so unprofessional and the porn industry is so professional like every time I get a glimpse of like I mean I even like did a little thing like New York Fashion Week and like just the way I saw people like get treated there or even just like the shady contracts or anything anytime I kind of dabble with like anything in another industry I I am so thankful for porn because I yeah and I know my experience was different than a lot of other people's

experience I'm not taking away I know some people have had their own sketchy experiences but I from you know the experience I've had in the industry and the things i've been around everything was so straightforward and like just like everything's out on the table and like the payment was always discussed ahead of time no the music the music industry is so sketchy snakes everywhere yeah and country lies and just yeah yeah country they're a little more religious and so i never want to be the reason for my husband not being able to grow so if that means fuck like because i still i mean i have two industries i have the sex industry where the sex work that i do and then i have my podcast that's doing extremely well my patreon where i always tell everybody i have two empires one with my clothes on one with my clothes off yeah but they

feed into it because you use the same name absolutely yeah so if i have to shut this down for a little bit i will just for my husband because I just feel like as his wife, you know, I still have, but you know what? If you shut it down, they're not gonna be, they're still going to be like, that's not good enough.

Right. I could still find it. It's like once you do it, like it's, you know what I mean? You may as well just own it because no matter what you do, hopefully it never comes to that. It's not going to come to that.

Sorry. I'm very like, no, you're not. No, I'm usually the same way. I promise you. I'm usually the same way. And those bible thumpers will talk shit

but they will both still listen to your husband and still subscribe to your own it's never gonna be enough I need to have this conversation now this is yeah now you're on our podcast and you are not taking it but like if you took it down they're just gonna find an old photo somewhere and be like

oh no she's still a whore oh I'm sorry this tour got canceled because of like that. Like, even if you take it down, it's not going to be enough for these people. Because I just, you know, so like you may as well just own it. You're right. You guys are right. I can't even argue with it. There's no pleasing those people.

And you know what? They're going to love it. Whatever. I would love you guys. We all got to hang out. You're going to love your husband too. I'm so excited to meet him. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and I'm excited. We're going to hang out in Nashville for a couple husband too i'm so excited to meet him yeah yeah you know and i'm excited we're gonna hang out in nashville for a couple days thank you for for having us um dude totally why don't what does 2023 hold for you guys what what does it hold for us we're new york people now i mean not many people get to say they're new york people you know i feel like everybody's la you know that i know yeah no i know it's like special to be a new york person thank you i think so yeah in my very own biased opinion i think i think it's great i love it but um you know i think 2023 what's most important to me is to is to just connect with my husband and and you know go back to what we were

before you know like you're getting there and um and i want to just you know um do things for fun like you know i want to run another marathon like running the marathon was so important to me because this was like something i just did like this is is not going to like advance my Joanna Angel persona in any sort of way you know what I mean like I want to focus on things that just fulfill me um as a person you know um I'm really so grateful working for Liquid Death and Liquid Death is just like soaring and doing like incredible things they're really it's so amazing to be a part of it so i really want to just like grow with the company and i just i want to like enjoy new york and like eat good food and like go to museums and and um and you guys and hang out with our dogs and um and maybe one day have a family but i don't

really know and um ever is kids on the table off the table we've gone back and forth i i never ever ever like and actually up until recently we both were very kind of like nah it's not for us and then in the last couple years it's gone back and forth yeah i mean my my company like was my baby you know like and also my life was porn 24 7 like there was like giant there was no room for a kid there was no room for every there baby you know like and also my life was porn 24 7 like there was like giant there's no room for a kid there was no room for every there was you know we were shooting in the house all the time and like on the big you know computer screens or something but porn everywhere right absolutely not a place at all you know to even think about like a child like fitting into there

but you know in the past like two years i wish women had like endless time you know right well we do now they have surrogates so it's true yeah we've also discussed like adopting the kid yeah some of my best friends growing up that's something i would like we're in the foster system and i saw how terrible it was and how you know, a whole life can be changed if you swoop someone up and give it to them. And just loved. Those babies want to be loved. Yeah.

So that's kind of a thing that we've both like thought would be a cool, whenever we're ready, like a cool way to go. Yeah. I think you guys would be amazing parents because you guys have so much love to give, you know. I think that would heal a lot of inner child stuff with you too. And we've both done so much like fucking up. We would know like yeah to help someone else not fuck up that's how i am with my bonus

baby she can't get anything past me but it's like i i she's healed me so much in ways that she'll never know my inner child how old is your she's 14 now but i've had her since she was seven that's awesome her mom was an addict so literally oh really and she's back she was seven. That's awesome. Her mom was an addict. So literally. Oh really? And she's back. She's sober now and she's back in and we love you, Felicia. Shout out Felicia.

Um, but when we got her, when I first got with Jay, we got full custody within the first three months of us being together. So we've had full custody ever since she was seven. So you are, you're the mom. Yeah. But I,

you know, I'm always bunny to her. I don't ever try to take the place of her mom. Um, but yeah, having a child around is so healing and you guys don't even understand until you go through the journey because it really is just such a beautiful journey. Frustrating, very thankless, but beautiful. Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. But regardless, we want to just, you know,

connect with each other and enjoy life. I feel very, you know, like I said, I know we're in a very fortunate and very privileged, you know, i know we're in a very fortunate and very privileged you know place where we can sort of bounce in and out of the industry when we feel like it you know it's it's always going to be in our lives in some way or another so it's kind of weird like i feel like there's people really don't understand like everybody has this dialogue where they want you to either like do porn and then hate it you know or you're just like 24 7 in porn right it can't just be like you know what i mean people don't think it's weird when like yeah it's real in the industry people don't think it's strange

when like lady gaga wants to you know be in movies and tv shows they're not like wow she must hate music she must be traumatized by music. That is the only logical explanation is she absolutely hates music. It just goes back to labels. Everybody wants to put a fucking label on everything. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't you guys shout out where people can find you on your show

socials? And if you want to shout out your only fans, all that stuff, you can find me Instagram and Twitter, just at Joanna angel. That's both verified accounts. You can find me on Tik TO Twitter just at Joanna Angel. It's both verified accounts. You can find me on TikTok, Joanna Angel X. I'm really trying to be better at TikTok.

I told you I'll help you. Yeah, you're going to help me do that. So yeah, Joanna Angel X is my name on TikTok. And OnlyFans.com slash Joanna Angel is my OnlyFans if you want to get weird. I'm going to subscribe after this podcast and you guys meet me over there yeah and I do as I've said on my OnlyFans I do everything

there's boy girl girl girl everything anything you can possibly imagine and if you go to everythingjoanna.com all my links are there there's a link you can buy my book there's I don't know just links to everything there. Awesome. What about you, Harry?

Onlyfans.com slash smallhands is the only fans. You can find me on Instagram at thesmallhands underscore. And you can follow my band, Soft Faith Music, on Instagram as well. Yay. I absolutely adore you guys. Thank you so much for coming here. Thank you. What a great interview like

I literally just wanted to cry we just cracked the surface we gotta we gotta you guys are coming back for sure I really love your microphone thank you I just like I've been waiting to say it the whole time thank you Mimi my manager actually made this for me as a present I love it that's a boss mic thank you guys so much yeah thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye. What's up, guys? Don't forget to sub to Patreon so that you can see the visuals. Because not only do we have episodes of the podcast,

we have exclusive content that nobody else sees on any other apps, behind the scenes, photo shoots, and we're dropping a whole bunch of surprising stuff this year so if you guys don't want to miss out and you want to be the first to know go over to our patreon www.dumbblondunrated.com love ya