Dumb Blonde - Joanna Angel and Aaron (Small Hands): Porn Royalty

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

In Part 1 with this porn royalty power duo, Bunnie talks with Joanna Angel and Aaron (Small Hands) about their upbringing and how religion caused rebellion. They get into Joanna launching Burning Angel in 2002 and how it changed the industry, and Aaron's pre-adult movie career as a graphic designer / van touring rockstar. They tell the hilariously cute story of how they met and went way further than a client and customer relationship. Stay tuned for Part 2!  Joanna Angel:  Website  Aaron (Small Hands:) IG  Watch Full Episodes & More: www.dumbblondeunrated.com  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Apply today at wgu.edu. Is this thing on? All right, gentlemen, coming to main stage next. This is Bunny. Get up there. She's got a tornado of titties coming your way. Get those dollar bills ready. She's got an ass that shakes like Michael J. Fox. So get up there and throw, throw, throw them dollars. Dude, that is fucking iconic. What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde.

Today, I am so excited for my guests. I have porn royalty sitting on my couch right now. Joanna Angel, Small Hands, Aaron, sorry. Either one's fine, either one. How are you guys doing? Doing good. Doing pretty good. Just got in from New York, uh it's a lot nicer weather

here so what's the weather in new york right now it's winter is settling in it's good it's not crazy yet but it's getting it's getting there it's getting there yeah no we had winter here for like a week uh like a week and a half ago and i was like ready to fucking just jump off a bridge because i hate it like as soon as it starts getting really fucking cold i'm like dude fuck this i'm the same way i love the cold do you i love it but like i like it when it's nice cold i feel like in new york right now it's like cozy sweater weather which is my favorite then in like january it's gonna be like ugly cold is what i call there's like nice cold pretty cold and ugly cold yes The cold that slaps you in the face. But honestly, you know, we were in L.A. for a long time. I was in L.A. for way too long.

I missed seasons. I missed winter. So I'm enjoying it. But I realize I'm in the minority because everybody else hates it. I feel like you're either a spring and fall person or like a winter and summer person. Like there's no in between. Do you like summertime and wintertime or i'm from southern california so it's all one season yeah that's why i'm really

getting used to all the yes yeah yeah yeah yeah totally yeah there's only one season life just kind of exists joanna did you grow up in new york where are you so i grew up in um new jersey i grew up in new jersey i'm one of those people that grew up in Jersey and would tell everyone I was from New York. I feel like everybody does that, though. Everybody does that. Yeah, you start to say that. But yeah, I grew up in Jersey. And then I lived in in Brooklyn. And then I wound up moving to LA. And now I'm back in Brooklyn um so yeah growing up how was your childhood like let's talk about that I know it's very like whoo let's see she's like which part I know which part you know like childhood childhood like what age childhood are we talking about like you know

from zero to 18 yeah let's go let's go baby let's dissect um because that's what my podcast is really all about i like to paint a picture of everybody like all the shit we've really gone through all the traumas and shit all the tribulations and trials that have made us the people that we are okay we're all underdog stories i think um you know, where to begin. So my mother is from Israel. So she, you know, so I guess I'm a first generation American. So I do, you know, growing up and I'm the first, you know, first. So I'm the oldest in the family.

How many siblings do you have? I have two siblings. I have two younger siblings. One sibling is 18 months younger than me so my middle sister and then my youngest sister is uh six about six years younger than me so I grew up I you know a lot of my early early childhood memories is with my sister who was 18 months you know younger than me um and it was kind of like you know my dad was at work all the time I mean my parents were you know boomers you know I guess I'm like well me and you are the same age so we're like at the very very end of the millennial um spectrum right um so yeah with my mother being um from Israel she really didn't speak much English at all you know like she moved here for my dad my dad was at work all the time

you know and um when we were growing up so I definitely had to do a lot of like figuring out the world and being you know the first sibling like figuring out the world yeah on your own my own kind of you know like I think a lot of first generation Americans have have uh something in common like um which is kind of you know we become a little bit bossy I guess because it's like when you're growing up with a parent who kind of doesn't understand how to like read things in the supermarket or doesn't understand how to read street signs and stuff like that and you're telling them at such a young age like no mom it's not this it's this like I you become kind of American traditions and she didn't so I was kind of like navigating her and showing her what to do.

It makes you kind of like a bit of a bossy person. You're a Capricorn though too, right? I'm such a Capricorn. So you're a boss by nature. I'm a Capricorn. Are you? Yeah, January 22nd. Oh my God.

I'm right on the cusp. There's not a lot of Capricorns. There's not. There's not, right? I love it. But we're right there with Dolly. Dolly Parton's a Capricorn. Did you know that?

Really? I didn't know. That makes so much sense. Yeah, no. She's a boss ass bitch. Exactly. We love that Capricorn. Did you know that? Really? I didn't know. That makes so much sense. Yeah, no, she's a boss ass bitch. Exactly. We love that Capricorn woman fucking boss bitch. That makes everything make sense now. I'm so glad I know that. You're a born leader, no matter what, whether you liked it or not.

Right. Exactly. So I'd have to say, you know, just a lot of like figuring stuff out, you know, on my own. I didn't have that like,, I would get, you know, kind of like jealous of the friends I had where their mom would like kind of teach them how to dress, you know, like take them to cool concerts or, you know, or do this or do that. I kind of like did just a lot of like navigating on my own,

whatever. And then there was my younger sister who I, you know, a lot of my early memories are me and her together. I was actually like pretty mean to her, which is really awful. But, you know, I make my early memories are me and her together I was actually like pretty mean to her which is uh really awful but I think that's a normal sister yeah yeah and I think um I used to um um I remember growing up my mom would always buy us like she'd have to buy us like equal toys you know what I mean like she bought me something to buy her something too. But anyway, I am I remember I used to like, like a psychopath, I would put tape all over all of her dolls, like in the middle of the night. And my sister would wake up and be like, Why is there tape

all over my dolls? I'd be like, Well, your dolls tried to hurt my dolls. You're John. I had to protect them. Yeah, I had to protect them. So I would I would take masking tape and put them all over there and be like yeah so i had to protect my sister would be like oh my god that really sucks yeah let's let's put tape all over that we can't i don't know why i remember this is a memory um this is what we're doing and um but anyway family you know i actually grew up pretty religious um you know religious jews. So like, which I guess now, now it's not, you know, cool to, I'm sorry, Kanye. I'm. Oh God, fucking Kanye, man. I guess it's like, it's anti-Semitism is really in this season, I guess.

It's, yeah. I shouldn't have said that out loud. No, you're fine. You're fine. We can say whatever we want on this podcast. Yeah. So when you say you grew up in a pretty religious what do you mean like so so we weren't like super extreme also being a religious jew is different than than from what i've learned you know being a religious like a catholic or christian or you know um i guess we

we were what you would call like modern Orthodox, but we didn't turn on lights and stuff on like Saturday, you know, every weekend is the Sabbath for Jews. So we would have like Friday night, like Shabbat dinner. And, you know, and then we wouldn't like turn on lights and stuff, you know, we wouldn't drive a car. So I guess Friday nights and Saturdays were kind of like, you know, devoted to like religious stuff. And there was actually like certain things about it that were like really beautiful, you know. And then there were certain things about it that were kind of bullshit. I mean, as I got a little older, I really hated it because I wanted to go out and party on Friday nights. But, you know, I had to like stay home and be religious or something.

I think religion breeds rebellion. Right. Because I grew up in a strict Pentecostal house. Right. So, I mean, the minute I could fucking flash my titties, I was ready. Yeah. I was like, here they are, world. Fucking let's go.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, so we were religious, but it wasn't like, it's almost like the religion was like, turn on like to like volume 10 on like you know on the weekends from Friday night to Saturday night and then like on Jewish holidays but like other than that you know we it didn't feel like it was kind of part of our day-to-day life I mean we kept kosher I don't know um it's just kind of different right and um it's a lifestyle really kind of yeah yeah

but I was still able to like when I was around people who weren't religious it wasn't like super right obviously weird you know what I mean

so I guess there was that you know were you close with your dad you said that he works all the time okay so I actually you know my dad was working a lot

I wasn't super close with my dad when I was younger. But we became a lot closer when I was older. He was just working a lot. And it's actually like it wasn't until I was older and I went through, you know, like I always say it with my sister and stuff. Now, like I have an amazing dad. He was just, you know, he was working. And I think I like learned

to like really appreciate that more yeah um as I got older and you know I went through certain things that he was just like well like there for me for so I um I don't think I really understood but nobody understands when their parents are good parents when they're younger yeah ever you don't appreciate them so you're in your 30s um my mom you know she she never really like i in her heart i know she really wanted to be a good mom and it's kind of sad because all she ever wanted to be her whole life was a mom um and you know it's like she couldn't also my mom had like a whole lot of shit you know growing up in wars and stuff like that does you know what i mean yeah yeah um you know she didn't you know because she couldn't really assimilate with like american culture it

was hard for her to really like right um you know and just certain things certain things that like moms are kind of supposed to do like at some point talk to your kids about about sex or talk to them about dating or talk to them you know like my mom just she came from a culture of like first of all she grew up in a war both of her parents died when she was younger you know so she didn't really have anybody she was just in survival mode and. And then at a certain point, she was like, you know, it was kind of like her older brothers were like, Oh, go like hang out and find an American guy to take you away. Was it an arranged marriage? It wasn't an arranged marriage. No, I mean, they met, you know, my mom seemed like my mom kind of hung around the American university in Israel waiting for

someone to hit on her. She was poaching. She was poaching for an American husband. And I guess it worked. So is your dad American? My dad is American. Yeah. And he went to study in Israel for a year in college. He was actually like a Jewish history, like professor. So he was like very like, I think he went there hoping to find an israeli woman and she went there looking to find an american man perfect and it just kind of you know kind of worked um i remember uh what i was saying before but um you were talking about how your mom was not shown how to be you know yeah yeah so she couldn't be that cool mom right you know so i kind of just had to like figure out you know a lot of shit just um on my own you know um and being you know I was the the first child so I was kind of like the you know I guess the leader of the family um you know but which can be a great thing but also a

difficult thing because then when you're having issues you don't really know who to turn to if you're like, if you're like, um, if you're the boss. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's hard to sum up your whole childhood, you know, in like a few sentences, but you know, we, I remember, you know, growing up, I do remember a lot of Jewish holidays. Um, I do remember at a certain point, like when I was younger, younger, I was really like into being religious. And then at a certain point God if I'm gonna be really honest you know when I stopped believing in God is when my first boyfriend dumped me and I was like this how can I if there was a God this wouldn't have happened so fuck you that was I don't believe in God anymore because you messed with me and I did

everything right and I think after that it was just how old were you I started smoking cigarettes and going out on Friday nights and hanging out with bad kids how old was I I was in sixth grade yeah that was my next question how were you as a child like growing up your junior high and high school years like I mean it's so you know like we we were like the last generation of people to grow up without like cell phones oh yeah no and stuff like that so it talks like the stone age yeah you know like i feel like i'm talking about like yeah like like somebody talking about you know yeah taking a horse and buggy you know no but i love it because we have so much wisdom that these kids nowadays are never gonna have yeah they didn't have to fucking drink out of water hoses they

didn't have to fucking be home when the street lights were on like right it's just a whole different vibe all these kids nowadays are raised by cell phone if you were lost you were like really lost oh yeah there's no fucking gps like your parents would have to like call the policeman to like figure out where you were if you just went for a walk and didn't know I mean I can't like you know it's crazy um but yeah uh how were you in high school and like junior high what was baby Joanna like I'm gonna say I was so I think I was kind of like bossy and and I don't know I I imagined a lot I actually I wrote a lot of stories when I was like a kid kid I won all these like um awards for like writing like weird ridiculous like stories and stuff I think I was kind of in my own like imaginary land it was your escape um yeah so I

do think I actually got like really depressed when like reality hit you know what I mean I think also I mean I've learned now I have been to like a lot of like therapy and stuff like that you know like kind of like like I was like had my my own you know uh I don't know in my family I was like very comfortable like I said because I was kind of could kind of do whatever I want and you know going to school and like dealing with you know friends and I don't know this and that. Like I think I think I was like not really sure how to navigate the real world. Also, I think that's when. Were you rebellious?

Were you into drugs? I did. Yeah, I got I got into drugs. You know, I was kind of always looking for like the bad kids. I started to feel kind of always looking for like the bad kids um I started to feel um kind of lost I mean I went to a pretty like snobby high school um so I do think like not having the this like picturesque family like everyone else had like I said my mom didn't really speak much English my dad wasn't around much um and you know my dad like I love him to death you know he's like sort

of like anti-social and I would like you know it just like I love him to death you know he's like sort of like anti-social and I would like you know it just seemed like it was the very typical like all the girls and you know and guys who played sports they would all hang out with each other the cheerleaders the job you know what I mean and there was just this like community there was like this big you know uh from what it seemed like just very like functional um very like well-raised you know people like community people that I just could not fit into I did know that all the other mothers in the community thought that my mom was really strange um you could kind of see it you know growing up which is why I'm always like very sensitive to this day like with how people treat like foreign people because I'd

see like people talk to my mom and they'd start yelling at her like, like she was deaf. And I'm like, she's not deaf. She doesn't speak English. You can scream this sentence as loud as you want. You know what I mean? So a lot of people, they thought my mom was kind of strange. She was just, you know, had weird, you know, I remember we'd go to the like swim club that everybody would go to and all the kids would like laugh at my mom because she like didn't shave her armpits, you know, and like stuff like that. that and like and it made them not really want to be friends with you either i can't really explain it kids are mean and you know we really grew up in an age where like now i feel like like anti-bullying is like just like a real thing like yeah it wasn't like that when we were younger you know like kids were just allowed to be me no they were allowed to

be mean and you either fought or fuck it. It was like kill or be killed. Yeah. Yeah. I think I kind of wish kids were more like that nowadays. I wish they would fucking just pop each other in the mouth and get it over with. Yeah. I think maybe it might be too extreme. I'm not condoning violence or anything, but I just feel like this generation.

I mean, I can't speak. I'm not a parent, so I don't really, I can't say like what method is better. No, I am. I'm a step parent and they're mean as shit, dude. There's been so many times my stepdaughters came home and I've been like, pop her in her fucking mouth. She'll leave you alone, you know? And she's like, I can't do that.

I'm just like, yeah, things have changed, you know? Things have changed. Yeah. Aaron, let's switch over to you real quick. Let's find out, you know, where you came from and how you were. So I have a different story than Joanna. I was born in San Diego, California, and my father was a preacher. Wow.

I did not see that coming. I'm the son of a pastor, son of a preacher man. And so I grew up very heavy in the Christian church. Wow. Six nights a week, go to youth group, feed the homeless. I was homeschooled for junior high. So I would just go to work with my dad and do my like homework in his office.

And I did not do drugs. I did not party. I did not drink. I was actually a model child. Now that I look back, I'm very confident. I got good grades. I went to church. I did all the, I was a model child. Now that I look back, I'm very confident. I got good grades. I went to church. I did all the, I was a good kid. You did everything you were supposed to do. Well, I didn't do everything I was told, but I was a very easy child to my parents.

Do you have siblings? I have a younger brother and a younger sister. So I'm the oldest. What denomination was it that you grew up with? You know, wherever my dad could get a job. Sometimes Baptist, sometimes Evangelical, whatever. Oh gosh, it gets scary when you start switching denominations. Well, I mean, and what I've learned ultimately from growing up and seeing it is it's all the fucking same. Right. It's so all the same.

It's all fear. And like there's like two little things that everyone wants to argue over, and then they divide into their camps. I think that's a really good point to prove because everybody always tries to separate each religion, and really it is all the same. And not only, and now I'm just speaking of my opinion, not only is all this different subsects of Christianity the same,

in my opinion, all religion is basically the same. It's created by humans who no one can really track exactly when it started. There's no record of it. And some human was spoken to by a higher power. And now this human can control the population. Yes. So it's a way to keep humans in line, in my opinion.

And as soon as I basically got into high school and I got into punk rock, like that was kind of the thing that woke me up and was like, oh, this is where I belong. This is my scene. Were you playing it? Yeah, I was playing in bands since I was 15. I started touring. And I really was like... Were you playing it? Yeah, I was playing in bands since I was 15. I started touring.

And I really was like... Were they Christian bands? No. No, okay. So your parents didn't listen to secular music? No, they did not. I had to see... Because mine didn't.

I was not allowed to watch movies unless it was rated G. Me too. I was not allowed to listen to the radio. We were also really poor. So we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cable TV. Yeah. I had to type my fucking homework on a typewriter, like real typewriter that's crazy um yeah and yeah and well because

what a lot of people don't realize is unless you're a preacher on tv one of those mega right pastors don't make any money whatever like your your local community preacher in like the the neighborhood church like 100 people is not making any money. So we were very broke and very religious. Oh my gosh. That's brutal. It's like bringing me flashbacks back to my childhood. So I do not have fond memories of my childhood.

Most of them were at best... Or excuse me, I actually have a lot of fond memories of growing up, but they were never involving my parents or my family. I would go find my people, my friends, and I would just, you know, make up lies and disappear and go stay at friends' houses. Were you not close to your family or just, it was just the religion? No, the household I grew up in was very much like a religious boarding school. So there was not a lot of warmth. There was not a lot of closeness.

But there was a lot of rules. And you were expected to follow them or, you know, fire and brimstone will come down on you. So it was extremely conservative, extremely strict, extremely Christian, and extremely cold. It was like so opposite. When he first, you know, was meeting my family, it used to be really, I mean, even still to this day, it can be a little like triggering, you know, for him. Cause like we, no matter what,

the first time I attended one of her family, like Thanksgiving's and I saw like 50 people all who loved each other and like wanted to be together I was like or even if we if we're screaming at each other yeah because also that was it's with lover like if there's a problem like you know when I did which you know first get in the industry of course there were issues with it of course people were uncomfortable we all just kind of yelled it out right you know and like communicated and figured it out and got you know and and like with Aaron there's so many issues in his family and everyone's just so quiet about it it's very cold yeah like I've even like you know I've hung out with certain family members of his and it's like we're all just like acting like

like we're at a job interview or something and sometimes like you guys have to be like can we address the elephant in the room and like you know what i mean like sometimes it's it's hard for me you've probably been very healing for him and i i you know it i try to be like um yeah i don't understand you know i mean fast forward like family is always a strange thing to talk about because his dad um when we first when we first got together yeah like um his dad um kind of you know disowned him um because of me yeah but it was basically he was doing yeah so we i can't wait to tell your story but it it hurts me to see um how could anyone just like dump their child their child like like how do you how how do you do like you know i've done so many awful things aaron is like a wonderful child i did so many shitty things and my parents didn't dump me i mean that's also the issue with this dedication to religion beyond all else.

And it will, I mean, my father to his, the one thing I do weirdly respect is he never wavered. He never changed his stance. He wouldn't, he was all in. He was all,

and he still is for, I mean, I haven't seen him in over a decade, so I don't really know. But it, because of that, we were never. No. It's okay. Family's hard.

It's okay. I invited him to our wedding. I got it. Because of that, we never got to know each other as people. Oh. And that's kind of the part I miss. Or not miss. But your inner child needs that.

Your inner child wants to be the part that bums me out the most. Yeah. Your inner child wants to be loved and wants to be nurtured. That little boy inside of you still is searching for that, that just relationship with his father, you know? Yeah. And her family has been phenomenal in uh showing me what a real family is and i'm really grateful to them that's just so hurtful and i'm sorry that you know i can relate to a lot of your story i ended up leaving home at 14 because my parents were my parents went from being rock and rollers my My dad was in a band, secular music, fucking hoes, fucking doing drugs.

Living the good life. To all of a sudden, literally just Bible thumping. I wasn't allowed to listen to secular. Really? Really? That's interesting. Did he like find Jesus later in life or something? I think he just got caught with his pants down and had to make an extreme change.

And that's exactly what happened to me. Like it became a boarding school. Like you said, like I had to practice piano, you know, an hour a day. If I didn't learn a song, I didn't go out to play. I was grounded 24 fucking seven. Like doors taken off the hinges, windows nailed shut. Like it was fucking crazy shit. Well, when his dad, so I get it pretty much.

I don't know. Broke up with him. I do remember the conversation and i it it felt like like he just got fired from a job like well you know i looked over your application and you're not really meeting the criteria and um so we're just gonna get you out and i was so just like and this is when you guys first got together basically no yeah we had been like two years we i wasn't even in the adult industry i was just her boyfriend a guy who played in a band and was her boyfriend. Yeah, so you got into music in high school.

I was playing in music in high school. And then in my college years, I went and I got an associate's degree in graphic design. And I was set to go to San Diego State for another degree, I guess. Yeah. And then my band got a record deal and we got on tour and I was like fuck school I'm gonna go be a rock star yeah and I basically spent most of my early and mid-20s playing in a band living the dream you know I was in a van with my best friends we were traveling all over the country how did your parents take that they didn't like it okay but they still let you go on tour and well once i was 18 i moved out immediately so they couldn't say and uh they they've never really been a fan of anything i've done unfortunately uh and so you

start raking in the big bucks and then all of a sudden you're the golden even when i did they still don't i mean well and to this day i don't even know if my father knows I do porn because he disowned me just for being with her. Wow. Just that was enough for him. It was so hard for me because, yeah, when we first got together, it was so important for me to meet his family because, like I said, family is really important to me.

Yeah, because that's what you know. And I was like, I really want to meet your family. And he's like, okay, you can't tell them what you do. And I was like, okay. And it wasn't because I was ashamed. It was because I wanted to, I wanted her to get a real chance. Right. And I was like, you know what?

I get it. It's weird. And I usually like to wait till a few, a little while, you know, whatever. But I was like, I'm going to get to know them and they're going to love me. And like, and they did gonna love me and like and they so by the time they find out it won't even matter that was sort of what i expected to happen so basically you're on the road and you go from there oh so so yeah so yeah we haven't met yet at this point in my life so i'm many other girls i'm in my 20s I'm you know living the punk rock dream playing in bands

touring getting to see new cities uh you know you got the we're gonna get somewhere we're gonna be you know on the radio we're gonna this and that and you know um and then that man kind of broke up and I started a company in San Diego uh so I owned for about seven years and operated at like a screen printing and like merchandise company because again I all I wanted to do is be in a band so I was like, okay Well, I still have to make money, right? What can I do that allows me to have a free schedule that doesn't have a dress code now? It's like well, I'll just fucking start my own business and print t-shirts for everyone else's So that tapping into your creative that DIY creative side

So and I did all the design and it was it was a fun business to run but it made no money It was like and I'm a terrible business person so that was part of it yeah yeah I'm uh I'm all you guys are like Jay and I yeah yeah I'm uh I got good hair and good tattoos and no business we really are like so so so anyway so that happening. And meanwhile, Joanna's up in LA being big famous Joanna. Right. So let's cut your story right there and let's head back over to you, Joanna. We had left off on your high school years and stuff like that. When did you branch off and start going in the direction of porn?

Was that after high school? So I went to college. I did. I went to college. I went to rock and roll college college was really where i like kind of thrived and found myself high school was pretty miserable um you know i never really i think also i you know i did i did uh which i could go into something else completely i did grow up in a it's like we were the poorest family in the rich neighborhood right you know what I

mean so like everyone was really wealthy in my high school um and I didn't fit in with with anybody very snobby you know very like preppy whatever I just I had a hard time you know finding myself and I couldn't really thrive as a person anyway college was was where you know there were a lot of people like me you know there was a really big you know punk scene and um I just really like got to really kind of find myself there and you know being able to have my own apartment and I don't I felt like like I I really grew up belong somewhere though yeah yeah and I was really able to kind of become someone or something or you know my it's like my personality was sort of hidden right all of like elementary school and and you know and call in high school it's kind of like what you

want your parents want you to be like when you're growing yeah but I knew I didn't want to be yeah and it was hard for me to even understand who my parents wanted me to be right so I think I was just really lost and I got really depressed and I just sort of gravitated towards anyone who like did drugs because that just seemed like the right thing to do anyway college is a good time yeah but somehow I did get good grades throughout all that but whatever um yeah anyway so I you know really found myself in college um I had a lot of good times really like kind of explored being a writer being at whatever I went through a lot of different phases of different things in college but um I mean I guess I started I started Burning Angel um my senior year of college. Were you always like into porn? No this was you know like I was never into

porn. So you didn't start out like a webcam girl or anything like that? No, I mean, that didn't even exist then. You have to understand Burning Angel started in 2002. Wow. You know, like this was, there was not very much going on on the internet. There wasn't a lot of women who were running porn companies either back then. It was all male dominated. Yeah. I mean, it really, the shorter version of the story which you know i know i've told it

many times i mean i was i was starting to be like a little bit like like because that is the thing you know first of all growing up in a family we didn't talk about sex ever you know um and uh you know being in the punk scene like the punk scene is very expressive about a lot of things but not sex you know what I mean I was like a pretty kind of angry yeah yeah it was like you know a very big time like activist you know and like whatever but um kind of like sex was just not a topping also like back in that time like me and my friends that were girls we were always like talking about bands and movies and and this and that. Like we weren't,

we didn't, I didn't have like a group of girlfriends to like talk about sex with. Like it was kind of like this uncomfortable. Oh, you got to came and hung out with us. I know. That's all we talked about. We grew up aspiring to be strippers.

Right. Not till later. That was our life goal. I don't know what it was. You know, we would talk about music and movies and books and changing the world. You were normal. Being vegan is vegan was, I don't know what it was. You know, we would talk about music and movies and books and changing the world. You were normal. Being vegan was, is that normal?

I don't really know. I don't even know what normal is anymore. Yeah. But I know mine stemmed from a lot of trauma. So I kind of just like, but there was this like part of me like that wanted to get out, you know, like I was like, yeah, like, like trying to like figure out what my like sexual thing was you know and I like I was kind of like couldn't really decide am I like one of the boys you know because a lot of my friends are guys am I a slut that fucks all the guys you know or am I like am

I looking for a boyfriend am I looking to like have sex with everyone I don't know I couldn't really figure out where on the sexual spectrum I fit in you know um and I actually did realize like I think in my brain I wanted to be like a really big slut like I always like looked up to the other sluts I was like it wasn't that you wanted to be a really big slut or you just wanted to be desired by men um I don't I wanted to go out every night and fuck someone else but like every time I do that I would get attached you know I found myself getting attached to like everyone and always falling in love with people and not like not really knowing what to do but what do

you know what your moon sign is I don't know I'll have to figure it out I'll do your birth chart for you yeah so it was uh it was hard for me to be a slut but I really tried really hard um um but I did wind up sleeping with a lot of people that i thought all of them were going to be my boyfriend and most of them didn't want to be my boyfriend but um but uh uh anyway i don't know fast forward till later um sorry i wound up writing a lot about this okay this is really going somewhere i promise i wound up like kind of like i was in a lot i was a creative writing major and i started sort of writing all these weird sex poems. Some of them were kind of funny.

You manifested. Yeah, yeah. I even wound up getting, because I was in my senior year of college, you could take an internship instead of a class for college credit. And I wound up interning at this sort of yuppie-ish sex magazine. So it was sort of like like and it was a website one of the it was called nerve.com it was I think I think if I don't want to it was one of the first like dating sites actually and then they had all these articles they had like artsy nude photography

they had like it was owned by a couple they had this really cool swanky office in New York um I don't know it was kind of like inspiring to me and they'd have these like sex educators come in and talk and I don't know it was a way for me to sort of like explore sex right without really having much of it but somebody guiding you and like kind of telling you what you need to do because your mom didn't do that exactly so you were trying to figure it out interesting that I figured that out now and then I would kind of come home I lived in a house with seven dudes. They were all just my friends. It was this punk rock house.

We had shows in the basement and everything. And one of them was, you know, my best friend who, you know, I guess became my business partner and still my best friend to this day is Mitch. I lived with him. We were best friends. We were not dating or anything like that. I don't know. I would come home and just, like like read all the guys in my house,

my weird sex poems I wrote in English class. I don't really know why. I would talk to them about everything I was doing in the internship. And I don't know. One day Mitch was like, we should start a porn site. We love Mitch for that. Yeah. Thanks, Mitch.

And I was like, that's a great idea. Pretty much. I knew nothing about porn you know I didn't he was a guy that watched porn I actually remember once my only experience with porn if you even want to call it that as I came home one night late and like I was like where's everyone everybody home like usually like at three in the morning we'd all be like you know drunk eating pizza or something right and pizza which was just um bread and tomato sauce really they didn't have vegan cheese yeah yeah yeah they didn't have vegan cheese back then we would literally order pizza without cheese and the person on the phone would be like that's not pizza yeah you're eating bread and tomato sauce

yeah yeah they'd be like oh i'm home everybody Everybody. And I was like, where is everyone? Where is everyone? And I remember opening my roommate's door and all seven of the guys I lived in a house with were watching Girls Gone Wild. And I was like, ah! I watched it for like a minute. I mean, that's not even porn, but whatever it was. Remember the infomercials you could call? Oh, yeah, how could I forget?

I'm really dating myself now. No, no, no. This is like vintage infomercials. So 2002, I was 22 i'm really dating myself now no no no this is like vintage so 2002 i was 22 so i know exactly yeah i mean we're the how you're we're the same 42 i'm gonna be 42 in a few weeks yeah so i'll be 43 so i get it this is all like it's all the same era yeah nostalgia so it's really my only like experience and you know my only other experience with porn was like i had a good friend and oh yeah I remember you know the cover of the Blink-182 album you know I remember being like god that girl is so beautiful and someone's like that's Janine she's a famous porn star and I was like what is a famous

porn star and they're like she's like in a lot of like I don't know and then I remember kind of being in a video store trying to find videos of this of Janine just because she was in the blink you know yeah yeah I think a lot of us did that I knew very little about but anyway from that point on I was like that's a great idea let's start a porn site and that was kind of where it began um and then April uh second 2002 was when it actually started and I think that first conversation happened sometime in in like November December you know probably 2001 so I don't know yeah and then it was like all right let's make this happen when you that was a short version yeah so when you launched this site it was burningangel.com and what was it was it like just photos blog it was just photos at first there was photo sets of

different girls and originally I wasn't even going to be on the website I was like nobody wants to like see me naked you know yeah and I just did not think of myself like that at all and then I remember trying to find other girls to do it and the first thing every girl would say is like well did you do it and I'd be like uh no and so at a certain point I just started to feel like really hypocritical like asking girls to do something that I wouldn't do myself yeah and I was like okay and then I remember coming home being like all right Mitch like I think I'm gonna be on the website he was like what and all the guys in the house are kind of like laughing like I was not like this the you know what I mean

you're like their sister little sister yeah yeah and I was like I'm gonna do it I was like well just I think it'll make the other girls more comfortable I feel weird asking them to do something I wouldn't do also like keep in mind now I don't even know like if anyone trying to imagine me back then it's like I'm walking around my college campus like we I live in a house with eight guys we have one digital camera right kind of that somebody borrowed from their mom and we did not have a professional if anyone asks you to be on a porn site and that's their setup say no I mean like it was not a professional operation but I was just so excited and so passionate about it I don't know I really wanted to you believe in yourself yeah make this like empowering

for women you know things so the original Burning Angel was just photo sets and um and I put some of my like weird sex stories on there too and then there was also um band interviews so I was doing the band interviews and we would like you know I'd like ask the bands about sex and stuff like that um and that was the original burning angel that started in 2002 i never knew that story yeah i love that a lot pretty aaron let's switch over to you so you're on the road joanna's doing her burning angel thing take me from there so in the early 2000s uh i was just touring in you know little punk bands having fun bartending you know running my business doing all that and

uh my business is actually how we met right so uh basically for a while joanna was just a client of mine and burning angel so we would in the warehouse be printing t-shirts that said like blowjob and anal and like you know like silly like merch and we all she was very famous even then so we all knew who she was and we were big fans and we had like a poster of her on the wall and we thought it was so cool oh we're making you know shirts for joanna angel it's so rad never did i it even occurred to me that you know we'd be sitting here years later 11 years later there was one mutual friend weirdly that we didn't realize we had, a guy from San Diego who I knew through the music scene, and he at the time was a male performer.

So Joanna was hiring him as talent on their sets. And at some point, she was complaining about her last relationship to him, and I was bitching about mine. And he's like, you know, I think you two might be kind of cool together and and uh that that's how it all started was our friend he went by Brian's street team shout out to you Brian shout out Brian and he he is the the sole reason that me and Joanna are together yeah Brian was like my best friend um yeah and he um basically he originally hooked us up because I needed a new person to make like t-shirts and stuff for conventions. Because the person I was using like went out of business or whatever.

And I was, so originally I was just ordering shirts and stuff, you know. And yeah, I remember at a certain point, like I was in a really long relationship that a lot of people knew about. And that ended. in a really long relationship that a lot of people knew about and that ended and then after that um i was dating this you know another guy um whatever it's dating is a complicated thing when you're in the porn industry so i found myself being you know 30 years old already a pretty established porn star and like single when did you take the the jump from doing just pictures to porn oh god yeah i mean that like burning angel launched in 2002 i think by 2005 we started making like videos and stuff like that that was like yeah um but way later yeah um you know i

found myself at that point you know uh this was probably what year did we meet I was 29 when we met okay so that's like 11 years ago so yeah so fast forward till later I'm a pretty like established porn star yeah being 30 years old and single and like in porn and

you know and I was like like every date I go on was just like it's like all manners just go out the window they're like oh you're a porn star let me just like you know, and I was like, like every date I go on was just like, it's like all manners just go out the window. They're like, oh, you're a porn star. Let me just like, you know. Treat you any way that I want. Right. Yeah.

Or just like not, you know, every like date kind of started to feel like I'm on some like interview. Right. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's almost like they don't think like. Like you're a person. Right. Like women in porn don't have a brain.

Yeah. And, you know, whatever. Meanwhile, you Like you're a person. Right. Like women in porn don't have a brain. Yeah. And you know. Whatever. Meanwhile you're running an entire business. Yeah. They should be asking you about that. Yeah. And also it's like if I just wanted to fuck someone random.

I'm going to do it with a professional. Right. Sex person. Get paid for it. On camera. Yeah. And like make you know. And have fun and make money off it.

That's how I felt whenever I was it that's how so like off camera yeah that was always my thing like like off camera I wanted it whatever I had to be meaningful you know um but like I said before I was never very good at one night stands anyway you're just a hopeless romantic right porn was the perfect place for me because I could explore myself sexually without getting like attached to anyone I could just have a great time i did escorting i never got into porn but i was high-end escort and that's exactly how i felt too i get to pick who i wanted to have sex with i got a shitload of fucking money and then i didn't have to talk to you again unless you wanted to be my regular and pay me a shit ton of money right but it's a controlled

environment that's gonna like start and end so it kind of like you know what i mean you could really throw yourself into it for that hour and then just kind of throw yourself out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Disconnect. Yep. But,

uh, yeah, anyway, I don't know. So I remember like, like he, I was ordering like shirts from him and yeah. And I remember one night it was like,

after like I was in this like kind of, you know, short lived relationship with someone that, you know, that ended because whatever he was, you know, he wasn't the one. Yeah. Because because because he was making way for aaron he just decided that because i was a porn star that he should be able to cheat on me all the time you know doing the typical

thing it's like well you cheat on me every time you go to work and i'm like no i'm not i'm going to fucking work i can't see dudes like that that's so weird to me so yeah so he was cheating on me even though he framed it as not cheating he was getting even at me for going to work, I guess. I don't know. Whatever. Anyway, and I was just like so bummed. It was like the fourth time that had happened in like a year. And I remember like crying to Brian about it.

And I was like, it's just like, why is this like so hard? I, you know, like everything else in my life is so great. And he was like, you know, I think you'd be good with this Aaron. You know, I was like, oh, like the guy that's making my shirts? And I was like, were you crushing on her already? Well, I was a fan. I was straight up a fan. Right.

And that's all I was. We had never met in person. She did not know what I looked like. I really didn't even know what he looked like. She just placed orders through our system, emailing. OK, gotcha. So I knew very much who she was. She had no clue who I was.

Gotcha. You didn't know you had the stud making your shirt i really didn't know i didn't know so yeah and then i remember he showed me a picture of him where you were like with this like acoustic guitar and i was like oh god i'll quote you she said he looks like an emo douche oh that's my type so that was the first impression of me from joanna angel but then he showed me another picture where you looked really sexy. I still looked emo, just not like a dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You didn't have an acoustic guitar. Everything was the same. There was just no acoustic guitar. So suddenly you were hot. I feel like musicians get a bad rap, though. Usually it's deserved. Well, yeah. I married one, so it tells me.

Also, the last three guys I had been you know whatever in some weird thing with that didn't go anywhere was a musician Joanna clearly has a type anyway so whatever I was like once I was like you know what I do want to go on a date with this guy I had to figure out how to go from like ordering shirts to like hitting on him which was

I started just like calling the office or emailing with like questions about things that I really didn't have, you know? And I would try to be like, like, I don't know. I just started like saying dumb shit. Like I would be like, oh yeah. So for my next order of shirts, I think we should do this. What do you think about it? And you'd be like, I don't know. I'm like, like whatever you want angel you're you're my customer like i'll do most of the time we just talked over email or gchat but like no we weren't even talking on gchat we were talking over email and i just took it upon myself to start sending you gchat

messages through your email and then so brian hadn't filled you in that she saw a picture of you not not initially and then at some point even like, all right, what the fuck is going on? Am I like tripping balls? Is this the Twilight Zone? I was like, there's no way the Joanna Angel is like hitting on me through email. This makes no sense. And then my friend, though, was like, at some point, was like, no, like, you guys make a move, man.

Like, do something, you know? And then I remember it was the fourth like around the fourth of july i was like try i thought you know because he lived in san diego i lived in l.a there was no like hey do you want to meet up at a bar you know like like you had we had to really actually make plans so i remember being like hey my friend is throwing a big fourth of july party to you and your friends want to come that seemed like a nice fair you know like like kind of like like if he didn't go for it it was like oh i just invited him to a party right i was like oh come to this fourth of july and i my friends are having and i almost blew it

completely yeah and then he said he was gonna come so joanna invites me and i again i'm like quote unquote like a nobody at this point. And Joanna's very much a somebody and I got really nervous. And San Diego to LA is about three hours. And it was 4th of July. So I went to like a friend's barbecue earlier in the day and I was gonna go up and I got too drunk to drive basically

because I was just too nervous. And I basically, I pussied out. And the next day on Julyuly 5th i woke up and i was like dude you really blew that like what is wrong with you like i was really like and and i kept being like i think he's gonna be here and i and even at some point when she knew i was gonna come here i could feel it through the text she was like whatever bro like okay yeah and the next day i was just like hey i am super sorry if you want to tell me to fuck off it's cool but i will drive up now like right now to la i'll drive three hours like can

we have lunch can we do something just to make like like if you'll give me a shot and she was like stay tuned to next week's episode to see what happens in part two of dumb blonde podcast what's up guys don't forget to sub to patreon so that you can see the visuals because not only do we have episodes of the podcast we have exclusive content that nobody else sees on any other apps behind the scenes photo shoots and we're dropping a whole bunch of surprising stuff this year so if you guys don't want to miss out and you want to be the first to know, go over to our Patreon, www.dumblondunrated.com. Love ya. College degrees are pricey, but with low tuition and our $2,500 back-to-school scholarship, WGU makes it possible

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