Dumb Blonde - Melissa Etheridge: I'm Not Broken

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

Bunnie gets real with rock legend Melissa Etheridge, diving deep into her incredible life story. Melissa opens up about her Midwest roots, how she went from 'black sheep to GOAT,' and attending Berklee before signing her first record deal with Island Records. She shares her journey of coming out to the world, never pretending to be anyone she wasn’t, and breaking generational curses along the way. Melissa also talks about the heartache of losing her son Beckett to opioid addiction, her fight as a breast cancer survivor—now 20 years strong—and the love story of meeting her wife, Linda. Plus, Melissa gives an inside look at her powerful new docuseries on Paramount, I'm Not Broken, where she brings music and inspiration to the women of Topeka Correctional Facility.Melissa Etheridge: Website | I'm Not Broken Watch Full Episodes & More:www.dumbblondeunrated.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Bunny XO. Talk to me about Bunny XO. Hold on, Barney. blog podcast and bunny is this thing on what's up babies Today we have a rock and roll angel in the house and I am so honored to have Ms. Melissa Etheridge in the house baby. Yay. How are you doing? I am fantastic. Dude I never thought this is like a dream come true. I just have to tell you I don't think you realize how many nights I took my clothes off to your music I'm telling you man yes when I was in the strip club you were my jam on the stage baby my crew used to go they we do a show if we had you know a night off they would go to the strip clubs and it would bum them out so much every time my songs came on they'd be like no boss is watching us no i love that we just went to a strip club literally two weeks ago and we went to go see male weenie boys that's what we

call them yeah some guy comes out to a jelly roll song i was like son of a bitch totally kills everything you know i was like my lady boner is gone lady boner is gone dude no but for real like my because i stripped in the early 2000s so i mean that's you were on fire and i've had fun in some strip clubs hearing my songs i bet oh my gosh i could only imagine the type of attention you got yeah i had there's so much i want to talk to you about and i it's like, I don't even know where to start. So let's kind of start with your childhood. I know that you wrote a book, you know, regarding like an autobiography regarding your childhood and growing up and stuff like that. But for the listeners at home who haven't gotten to read that book yet, let's kind of

deep dive a little bit into where you came from and what made you who you are. Oh, okay. I feel like everybody's childhood kind of oh yeah puts them on a trajectory of where they're going to go in life absolutely that's that and that's where you get like acceptance and and appreciation no matter what happened in your childhood that it really made who you are today and that's myself I grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in Kansas. I grew up in Leavenworth, Kansas, which was a larger town in Leavenworth, but a very small town anywhere in the world. And it had a prison there. And that's what we're kind of famous for. It actually had five prisons there. I always loved music. I don't remember not ever loving music.

My sister was older than me. She played records. My parents played a lot of records. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so I had the great radio and the great rock and roll. And we had a station in Kansas City. We could hear it in Leavenworth. That used to play everything. It would play country music. I could hear Tammy Wynette. Then I could hear Marvin Gaye. Then I could hear Led in Leavenworth. That used to play everything. It would play country music.

I could hear Tammy Wynette. Then I could hear Marvin Gaye. Then I could hear Led Zeppelin. Then I could hear some pop song. And it was truly top 40 radio from everywhere. So I just had all this influx of great music. Loved it. My father brought a guitar home when I was 12.

No, I was 8. My sister was 12. He brought it home for her. And I was like, but, you know, I love the Archies. I used to pretend I was Reggie. And, you know, and, and, and he, they finally let me play, even though they said I was too young, and my fingers would bleed. And they did bleed. But I kept playing at eight years old. And then when I was 11, I went to a talent show in the plaza, sang actually a song that I had written, a very folksy kind of song. Did you always write music? Like start, was that? I did.

Just from the start, you picked up a guitar and started writing music? I understood it to me that from the music I'd heard from the Bob Dylans to the Paul Simons to Joni Mitchells, these artists that I was getting in my childhood, that if you wanted to reach people with your music, you became the whole thing. You wrote songs about your life. That's just how I understood it. I feel like that's a real musician though. You know, like the people that you grew up on, that I grew up on also, they were real musicians.

Like they poured their heart out through their pens. Yeah. That's, that's how I understood it. And when I was hearing a song, I was like, yes, that's, that's where I wanted to go. And so I always started writing and my first songs were very childish and very, you know, copying what I had heard and, you know, what was out there. But I loved it. And through this talent show, I was in a variety show. And we performed in prisons and no folks homes and stuff like that. But through that, I got with a band. There was just a country band in town called the Chuck Hammersmith and the Wranglers, you know, and I sang Tammy Wynette songs. How old were you? 12, 12, 13. And then from 12 to 17, I played in real

bands. I went from that to a band in Kansas City where I fronted it with like four guys. They taught me how to play the organ, the keyboards. They taught me how to play drums. Wow. Just because I was just, you know, hey, how do you do that? And I was that age, you know, I was 14, 15, 16. And I sang all, you know, the pop songs. And I made money every weekend. I had my first car that I bought at 14. That's insane. I mean, I wasn't wealthy, but I, you know, I was, I had my own money as a child. But you had that drive to just, I loved it. Where do you think that drive came from? Because I have heard you be very vocal about your relationship with your mother. Can we dive into that a little bit? Where did dad

stand in that situation? And then also we have some uncomfortable stuff with the sister too. Oh, yeah. So. Sorry. Please let everyone know that's the dog. I grew up in the Midwest in the 60s and 70s. And I was a child in the 60s. Right.

And it's so hard to explain now what it was like back then and especially in the Midwest. My parents, they grew up in, my father grew up in poverty. He grew up as a migrant farmer. His father was an alcoholic and you know he pictures of him as a child with you know it looks like the dirt you know the dust bowl. That was my father's life. And he had someone help him in his high school. He was very athletic. And so they got him a scholarship to a college. And that was the only reason he got out of that.

And he became a teacher and a high school coach. Yeah. And he was, he was that guy. He was supremely nice. He cared about people. He was fun. He taught me how to,. He cared about people. He was fun. He taught me how to hit a ball and run around. And my mother, she grew up in, well, her father was an insurance salesman kind of guy.

So she wasn't poverty, but she was lower income, trying to be more. And she went to college because that's where you find husbands. Met my father. Ladies and gentlemen, that's where you find husbands. Met my father. Ladies and gentlemen, that's where you find husbands. Yeah, right. Exactly. Back in the 50s, that's what you did. But she was extremely intelligent and loved books,

was sort of trapped in this life. And she didn't know how to raise children but when i was three she got a job as a secretary and in the 60s quickly became like you remember the movie hidden figures the the women that no they uh it's these women that actually did all the work in early computing oh wow and how and they would run the computers. And she did it for the Army. There was an Army base right there in Leavenworth. And then the generals would take all the credit and pay her half what anybody else's.

It was just, she became very bitter. That's amazing. I'm so sorry. No, she became very bitter. She would drink at night. She became bitter? Yeah. Just for...

Because her intelligence that she was trying to get out there, she would work for the army in war games and scenarios. And they would kind of probably put her down and... Yes, and they would take... Just not a very healthy environment. Yeah, just back then women didn't work. And they weren't the smart ones, so the men had to take all the credit. I also feel that people who have higher intellect

like that for some reason they always try to mask in other ways like it's almost like their intelligence is just too much for them to carry yeah my husband's sister is like that and they don't have any fun in life and she just didn't and you know now I said as a grown-up and a mother myself, I'm like, oh, she did the best she could. Yeah. But at the time, as a child, you take it personally. You think, oh, she doesn't love me because I'm not lovable. You internalize that.

Yeah. And so I internalize that, as did my older sister. And she did it in a different way. She lashed out. She was the bad child. She was and just was always in trouble and angry at the world and did take it out on me and took it out in in different ways uh physically sexually just all for a couple years when I was looking for you know acceptance and love of some kind and

you know were those things happening to her? This I don't know. You know, I asked her once. I did after I grew up. I said, you know, is this something that happened to you? And she said that she did. She said when she was five years old that the boy crossed the street. But she said, but I don't think of it as abuse because I liked it.

And I think she took that on for the rest of her life, sort of, and became very, you know. That's powerful in a weird way, you know, because it was kind of like she turned her pain into something, you know, that helped her deal with it. And we lived very different lives. Yeah. And she's... How do you, how is your relationship with your sister now?

Because going through physical and sexual abuse with a, you know, a sister, it's like, how is that bond? Were you guys able to be able to look past that or has it always just been... No, I was, I enabled for a while I mean I love my family and and that you might know I when you make a lot of money all of a sudden it becomes very weird with your family and I've had to cut motherfuckers off left and right okay I'm just telling you because you want to make people happy. And back then, I thought, oh, well, if I provide this, then they'll do this.

And they never do. It just doesn't. You can't do it for anyone else. It takes away their desire anyway. But my sister tried that, and I had to cut everything off. And I did. And nowadays, I think I saw I saw I hadn't seen her like 17 years and I saw her I I her daughter and I are very close I I helped her daughter out and

um and I'll just see her and hey she's just a cranky old lady now as far as I know you know embodied your mom kind of a little bit that That's exactly what happens. You might've taken on your dad and she took on your mom. That's exactly, it's crazy. Yeah. No, I get it. I have two sisters that I don't communicate with. I actually just started taking care of my older sister again, just paid for like surgery for her. She's done me so wrong. And it's like, I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop. Like you're being sweet now, but I can only imagine what you're going to try to sell to the tabloids next, you know? It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, no,'s wild that we even have to to deal with stuff like that moving on from that situation you started playing in bars when you were 12 years old

what in the hell like i know it was a different era back then i feel like the era of like the i wasn't around the 70s but the 80s the 90s and even the 2000s was such a fucking cool time like right compared to now I feel like everybody's offended about everything like you can't fucking say anything like I just feel like back then was just like such a more lax era I guess you could say it was more magical it almost felt like, you know? There was a lot of magic. Yes, sometimes I look back and my wife will laugh when I say, you know, I was playing a prison and I showed her a picture of the whole act that went in there with me. You know, I sang, but we had dancers and comedians and acrobat people. And they were all in completely inappropriate outfits in the 60s, right? Going into a prison.

So that was that. Now, the bars, my father would go with me every single time. I was never without my father. So dad was like a constant figure in your life. Constant. That's amazing. He didn't drink. He would go.

He would sit there with a Coke and just, and he would listen. And then he would help me carry my equipment out. And he was, I think he liked it because we would go every Friday and Saturday night, every weekend. And I think the marriage was maybe a little, because she was having a hard time. And it was a very peaceful time for him and I think the marriage was maybe a little because she was having you know hard time and it was a very peaceful time for him and I we would really enjoy each other's company and just and he would go sit and listen and he he wasn't one that like critiqued me and he didn't also wow you're really good or anything like that he just he did he just he just knew it was something that made you happy absolutely and he just supported it yeah something that made you happy. Absolutely. And he just supported it.

Yeah, he did. That's amazing. That's really cool. With that situation that was going on with your mom too, just circling back to that, how did you not internalize your mom's anger and pain? Like how did you avoid that? Do you think your relationship with your father helped you to not internalize it? Hmm.

Because I know how it is to be around people with depression, and sometimes it's very easy to soak up their energy too. Yeah, well, I got out of there as fast as I could when I was 18. I graduated high school, and I went to college for a minute. You went to Berkeley College, right? Not just anybody can get into Berkeley College, by the way. Well, it's true. That's true back then. But I didn't go for very long. I only went for a few months because I wanted to sing and play.

And I'd already been playing and making music. So I just found a restaurant that had a lounge in it that I could go play and I could make money and work on my dream. I really was not the kind of girl that would sit there. I was not a studious musician. A studious musician. No. I feel like musicians, you have to be creative. You can't just be put.

There are some who can do that, but the majority, you're creative. You can't be like stifled by a classroom. No, it was crazy. The minute they would tell me, you have to do this note, it has to come after that, I'm like, it does not. It's music. What are you saying? It has to do this.

But that was, it was more of a jazz- thing and that's a whole different mindset but even to get accepted into Berkeley like that's a huge feat that just goes to show what kind of musician you are though because like I think they said that it's like a 54 acceptance rate to even get into there now wow that's amazing that's great yeah then it wasn't like that it was brand new but yeah but you know it's it's all good and it is a very good school and they've i actually got an honorary doctorate from them so it really pisses the rest of my family off but i love it the wild child gets and gets the doctorate i love that you're the black sheep turns into the goat there you go there you go i've never heard that yeah

that's why i love it i stole it it. I stole it. It was a meme. It was a meme, and I was like, I relate. So I just stole it. Yeah, there you go. How did you define your sound? Because you have such a raspy, just bluesy, just your voice is just so amazing. Well, I sang from the time I was 13. Yeah. Did you have that bluesiness and that rasp even at 13?

Well, I played in country bands first, even though I didn't, that wasn't my first choice of music. I listened a lot to it. I, you know, your classic stuff. But I would sing all those songs and they're all very throaty, very full. You know, the Tammy Wynette and even Linda Ronstadt, that sort of singing like that. And I'd listen to Gladys Knight. I'd listen to Aretha, and I'm like, you've got to sing from here. And I guess I've always sort of had this voice because I do remember the choir teacher. I also went to, go play in the bars and then I'd go to church on Sunday I love that that's what we do there you go and but I would sing in the choir and she used to put me in the very back because

she'd say I had the weirdest voice oh you know so so it's kind of it's a good thing though it's good I'm very grateful for my voice but I think I bet she fucking ate shit when she saw you winning Grammys. There's been a few of those. There's been a whole... I've got many of those. I'm good there. But it's just something that has developed and I've worked on it

and it's sort of a... It sounds like I drink a lot of whiskey and smoke a bunch of cigarettes. I love it. I write like that. I've written songs and I'm smoking cigarettes and drinking whiskey,

but I don't. Yeah. I never did. Did you know, I'm smoking cigarettes and drinking, but I don't. Yeah. I never did. Did you maintain your sobriety even all through childhood and like teenage? Alcohol was never a problem with me. One, because I saw my mom. Right. And I saw my father who didn't drink.

And I said, I want to be like dad. I just, that's, I tend to think that children go where it's warm, you know and and that was warm and and and and I'd play at 13 40 50 and I'd see these people get drunk and I'm like well that's stupid you know and nothing attractive held nothing attractive I'd see people get all sloppy and stuff at the end of the night and fights oh my god I'd you know beer bottles throwing and hiding behind the organs so the chairs don't get just yeah I've you know I've saw a lot i could only imagine at such a young age and the bars back then were just crazy yes they were not very politically correct oh no there's nothing like that about there but again i always felt safe my father was there every single night i love that we love dad is dad still

alive no i lost dad at 30 it was really really difficult oh my god i just lost my dad in may so i can only imagine how that goes yeah it's brutal but they're always here yeah he's been there 30 years he's been there for sure i've never seen more fucking butterflies i'm like bill i get the damn point okay i got it i got it dad i know you're here yeah it's a new year new you new business. Don't put it off another year. I want you to manifest, put action behind it and thrive baby. The best time to start your new business is this year right now. Shopify makes it simple to create your brand open for business and get your first sale. They're powerful social media tools. Let you connect all your channels and create shoppable posts and help you sell everywhere people scroll. Shopify makes it easy to manage your growing business. They help

with the details like shipping, taxes, and payments from one single dashboard and help you focus on the important stuff like growing your business. With Shopify, your first sale is closer than you think. Start today, baby. Established in 2025 has a nice ring to it doesn't it sign up for your one dollar per month trial period at shopify.com slash bunny b-u-n-n-i-e all lowercase go to shopify.com slash bunny to start selling with shopify today shopify.com slash bunny so moving on from berkeley yeah uh how old are you then when you start like venturing out and you you got your first record deal win? Because I know you dropped your first album in 1988. Yeah.

When was the space in between there that you got signed? So I I finally I went back to Kansas after Boston, made enough money, played at a restaurant, Granada Royale Hometown, played in the lounge, made enough money, buy a car, got a car, drove to Los Angeles in 1982. So I was 21 years old. And LA in the 80s was magnificent. It was great. Tell me about it. It was magnificent. Tell me about it. Because I got to grow up with the Hollywood, too, in the 80s and the 90s. And it was like so, you know, as a child, seeing that. It was a drama queen's heaven. It was theater.

It was, we're going to wear our hair so weird. We're going to try to do everything weird and against until it became the style, you know, until everyone's doing it. You know, I remember. That's where they got the nickname Holly Weird. Yes. You know, we would shave the side of our heads and, you know, because I went in with the lesbian crowd, you know, the gay crowd, the deep, you know, and we're just the weirdest ones ever, you know, where we were the first ones to go to the Salvation Armies and get the vintage clothing and stuff like that. You know, no, that was back when you could walk in and find amazing things that you'd

think, why would someone throw this away? So we, we were living that and I loved it. And I got really deeply into the whole lesbian world because I ended up playing lesbian bars. So you played like the gay circuit. Oh yeah. There wasn't even a gay circuit back then. Oh, okay. Because I know in Vegas they had one. There was like a whole little circuit that you could go and just, they called it the

Fruit Loop. Yeah. But it was like, they said it in the most endearing way, you know? Of course. So I didn't know if Hollywood had one of those too. No, we didn't have a Fruit Loop. But we have a lot of fruits and nuts. But no, these were just like the bars.

One was in Long Beach. I love Long Beach. Yeah. And it had just opened. But I ended up playing a place in Pasadena and Long Beach. And hardly ever in LA because there wasn't a lot of live music scene. But I had created these there. They weren't looking for work. I actually was there on a date and went and saw a piano in the corner and said, hey, you have music. They said, no,

that came with the steakhouse that used to be here. But you want to play at night. So they let me. I created these jobs because there was nobody making money in Hollywood everyone was playing for free wow and so I played for four years in these bars and I thought how am I ever going to be signed in a lesbian bar no one's ever going to see me but slowly the wife, who was a soccer coach, the girls brought her in. You've got to hear this girl. And then the wife tells the husband, who's a manager, a music manager, managed bread and whatever. He comes down.

He's like, well, and this is 1983. And he sticks with me for, well, we ended up working together for 30 years. But he said, look, I don't know what's happening, but I believe you have a great talent i think you can do this and he's he even said he goes stay in the lesbian bars i will bring the people to you you're making money right you're making a living you can pay your rent and every single record company over those four years came out to see me wow and they would they would go like warner brothers brought out all the tables, and there'd be, I don't know whether it was because they were surrounded by lesbians or what it was, but they would always, you know, then say, oh, we don't hear a hit, and they never knew. And it wasn't until 1986, 1986, I'm playing in Long Beach, and a producer guy who had tried to get me a deal with A&M knew Chris Blackwell. Chris Blackwell owned Island Records.

He discovered Bob Marley. He brought Bob Marley to the world. He was from Jamaica. He was this eccentric, rich son of the Blackwell Soups or something, Jamaican. And he brought U2, Robert Palmer. He was just a great music guy. And he walked into the bar, heard four songs and said, I don't know why you're not signed and signed me right there.

Just boom. Just like literally on a napkin, you know. You literally paved your own way. Like you did it your way and you brought your, your energy was so pure and so magnetic that you brought all of these straight people into lesbian bars to come and see you. That's amazing. It's fun because I've run into some of the people that came out and, you know, said no. And they were like, oh, well, we made a mistake.

Yeah. Really nice to see these old white gray haired guys saying, oh, well, we made a mistake. Yeah. When did you know that you were lesbian like that you just were not into men or was it something when you grow up when you're gay and you're a kid you know you have crushes on your kindergarten teacher but you know who doesn't as a kid i think sexuality is a you know miss had a great ass come on I still remember her name yeah yeah mine was mrs rice anyway so there we go you know and you as a child but then when the hormone stuff starts kicking in and my friends are you know looking at bobby and jimmy and I'm looking at my friends and going, you know, and it's, I see it today where kids know that there's more, and they are just natural in themselves.

And I, God, if I'd have had that as a child. But as a child, you're like, okay, this is the way everyone's going, but I'm looking this way. Well, that's okay you know and you just kind of go along and it I would get crushes on girls and it would you know you just want to stand next to them and I'm sure it's what guys go through you know it's just like I just I don't know what to do I don't think of it as I'm gay I I just, and it wasn't until I was 16, you know, that best friend and that sleepover. Yep. I know.

I had one of those too. Our daughter actually, she, you know, they have so many terminologies now and I don't want to get into that. But she actually leans more towards being a lesbian also. And we are so, I'm like, please, please do. Like, I am so accepting of it. Our oldest engagement party tonight, marrying a lovely woman. We couldn't be happier. See, I want Bailey to do that.

Yeah, that's our Bailey. Our daughter's name is Bailey. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Yes, I did know that. If you just let it go. Yeah, just let them be. They get their heart broke.

They get their heart broke broke yeah they get their heart broke either way you know they're going to have relationships and and you just hold their hands through it and yeah and then they find man but you know when they find that one they just they just light up it just yeah it just works yeah i hope that happens for our bailey too so moving forward you get signed by island was island records yes you get signed by Island Records. Island Records, yeah. Yes, you get signed by Island Records. Take me on that journey. So you got signed in 86, you said? 86, okay.

And then Chris Blackwell goes back into the universe of music, and I don't see him, and I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to make a record. I've never made a record. You're like, well, okay, thanks for signing me, but what do I do? I know exactly what I do now. How were record deals back then? Because I know they're so different now. What did they offer you?

Am I allowed to ask that? Yeah, let me see if I can remember the first one. Because I'm fascinated with the inner workings of how that is. Because you've seen the music industry change so much. I sold 25 million albums, and Island Records still say I owe them money. Wow. That's how bad the record coming but they've forgiven it at this point it's like oh stop it gotcha what do you mean the record deals back then were crazy yeah no it's you you didn't even your lawyers would just go you know

because they didn't have to sign you they did there was so much music they weren't like they were doing you a favor and you knew that you knew that you had to get through this door or you would it there was you're pretty much signing not I don't want to say signing your life away but you're signing your the rights to yourself just so that you can for a while so that company will blow you up and take all the money from it but you will get the fame yes and that's I kind of realized that and I had a good manager who told me who said look you know it's not about your records don't even think about that because that really doesn't say it's about your publishing because you write then I can make the money from the publishing that's when you see an artist who doesn't write their own stuff

who who is who doesn't really like to perform, they're not gonna be around for a while because performing is your bread and butter. And that I started, you know, I'd already been playing these bars and clubs, then I made a record and I went out and played more bars and clubs, and then it just grew from there.'t I would not trade that for the world for the first my first album came out in 1988 and I played everywhere I played Europe and Australia and all these places because the the first album did well so you traveled everywhere after you dropped your album I'm gonna look at my notes real quick because there was something really

cool that I realized with these albums that you dropped. So you dropped, you know, May 2nd, 1988, you dropped your first album, and then you had a hit, Bring Me Some Water, that was nominated for a Grammy. But then you go on to drop two more albums. Another album gets nominated for Grammys, right? And then you win a Grammy award. Yeah.

That's insane. In your first three albums, you get a Grammy award? Like, that's insane. And your first three albums that you, you get a Grammy award. Like that's insane. That really surprised me because it wasn't, I didn't even get a lot of people think I won for best new artist, but I didn't get that. I wasn't even nominated for that. It was back when they had a category called best female rock vocal. They don't have that anymore. They should though. I know. But first I you know I was nominated I was nominated each I've been nominated 17 times. That's crazy. But still that's crazy. It's um it was great because my career really went from here to huge. I went from selling 60,000 albums

to like almost a million after the Grammys because the Grammys had that large of a reach. And it was because, not because I was nominated, but because I performed. And it was a very special year. This was 1989. And Tracy Chapman performed. Sinead O'Connor performed.

Oh, my goodness. I performed. Sinead O'Connor performed. Oh my goodness. I performed. We, my manager actually strong-armed the producers into letting, they wanted to mash all our songs up. And he said, are you kidding? This is such a strong year for women. You've got to let them have their thing. And they let us each sing our songs by ourselves.

And it was really powerful Grammys. That's amazing. I didn't win, but I performed. It's all right. You were there, baby. You had your foot in the door. We actually just got to see Tracy Chapman at the Grammys perform with Luke Holmes. And I was like, I was, that was the highlight of my night was to get to see her perform because, you know, it's such a rarity these days. What a beautiful soul. Oh, just so good. I was just like, I was so thankful to be there in that moment because it was just really magical. I loved it. Um, so take me on your first tour. Like what? I remember whenever I hopped on tour with Jay in 2016, you know, it was, he, he, he wasn't signed

or anything like that. And we would work our asses off. I'm talking like we would go to like every little bar, there would be people with, there would be 20 people in a bar and he would perform like it was you know his fucking It was like an arena full of people What was your first tour like because you said you got to go everywhere and like got to go out of the country and stuff Like that was it wild it was well because it was all different in America. I was getting Played on rock and roll. So I was doing the rock and roll circuit. I was playing the bars and clubs. It was, you know, 200 to 500 people. If I had 500, that was a lot. I remember in Colorado, in Boulder, Colorado, they had a great they had a great radio station there called KBC oh

yeah and so they were playing my songs a lot so this was my biggest crowd was 500 people and then I started opening for Bruce Hornsby and that's a great thing for a brand new artist to get on a larger thing so I could open for them. And so all of a sudden I was playing to, you know, well, they were half empty halls when I started. But I could play those last couple numbers and people would be, you know, there'd be 3,000 people. So I'd learned that. Then I'd go over to Europe where my song was doing well, and I'd play a thousand-seat rock. Have you gone to Europe?

Not yet. We're going. Wait. Europe is so much fun because they all stand. It's all general admission, and they all clap on time. It's not that, you know, America's, we're all like, you know, one, two. Man, these, they're, and they clap and it's and they all jump up and down and it is so much fun they love their music they love rock and roll and yeah so that was fun so i

just started and i didn't stop for eight years and it just grew to theaters and and then before i knew it my fourth album had come out yes i am all of a sudden that's the one that put you in mainstream yeah that was mainstream so now i'm playing arenas and stadiums that was the one i stripped to yes it's a good one that was my believe me when i start that song there the audience is they're all they're all in it i'm surprised well the clothes do i could only imagine how many titties you've seen you to that song sorry wifey no you have No, she loves it. No, she loves it. She knows. She loves it.

She's the most, she's, it's good. I'm going to stop talking. I can't wait. Well, we're going to get into how you guys met and everything too.

So I want to know all of that. But, so you're out here touring, you dropped this record, you're mainstream. I mean, you're at the height of your career and just, it's, I mean, you mean, you're at the height of your career.

And just, it's, I mean, you got, you sang at Brad and Jen's wedding. Well, they were friends, yes. I mean, who could just say that Brad Pitt's their friend? You know, like, that's just crazy. I met him before. What was crazy was Hollywood in the late 80s, early 90s was, we didn't know. We didn't know when I'm sitting around with now, you know, Academy Award nominees and winners.

And a friend of mine, Catherine Keener, she was an actress, and she said, oh, I have this friend that I just did this movie with. His name's Brad. It's his birthday. Will you call him? He's a big fan of yours. You know, I'm like, okay, this is before Thelma and Louise. This is before anything. Yeah. And back when he was really hot. Oh yeah. Yeah. Nice. Oh no. You would know the minute I met him and I was like, well, look

at you. And he was from Missouri. He was from Missouri. She said, look at you. I'm like, he's beautiful. We used to have like swimming pool. I had a real fun swimming pool. And I had like a basketball hoop on the swimming pool. And we all used to gather. And I mean, this is like River Phoenix. And you're just really beautiful. God, I can go on and on. How was your relationship with River? I feel like he did not get enough time here. No, no, not at all.

No, it was incredibly sad when he passed away, and it was, and, you know, they, yes, they had been, you know, there was always drugs in, in Hollywood, but it wasn't a mainstream thing back then. We, they drank a lot, and we'd smoke pot, but, you know, that was about it, and when it was the cough syrup with something else he had taken, and it was so sad, and Joaquin, it just died in his arms. It was just a really, really sad time. But it was a beautiful time in Hollywood with a lot of people that had no idea. I mean, Ellen DeGeneres, and we're all hanging out in my pool.

Did you and Ellen ever hook up? Did me and Ellen? Yeah. No, that would be gay. That's true. I love that. Do you understand what I mean? I get it.

Okay. That is hilarious. Gotcha. So you like the femmes. You like feminine women. Yes, ma'am. Okay. She's like, yes.

Do you like straight women? Is that the thing? Well, that was a problem. Yeah. That was a problem, and I got over that problem. You like to turn them out. Wow, you are. You understand my world.

Well, I am you. You are me. That's exactly what my first 10 albums, you know? I love that. Yeah. That is another thing, is you've always stayed so true to yourself in the music like when you would talk about relationships it was she it wasn't he whereas like even Elton John when he first was in the music scene he had to sing about having a wife

and Rocketman you know like I told them it's like you don't have a wife sir I know I told them I said I'm not going to well they said well as long as you don't flag wave I don't know what that means but you know what that meant then I was like okay whatever but I said I'm not going to pretend I'm something I'm not I'm not going to go to red carpets and find a boyfriend I'm doing air quotes you know and and um no I just I wouldn't do that and and I always wrote very universal pronouns language you know that you can turn it any way you want it can be but boy did women know that I was singing about women they're like oh nobody writes like that about a man do you think that that's why your album um the the fourth one I forget what it's called yeah it's am. Yes, I am. Do you think that's why it resonated so well with the masses?

Because you were just being true to who you were and people actually accepted it, which during a time when people weren't that accepting back then. No, the gay community was strong here. And I met a lot of people in the community, a lot of the ones who were fighting for our rights, these leaders. And we were right in the middle of the AIDS epidemic and our friends and everyone was dying and we were like, if we don't stand up and say something, everyone's just going to be fine that we die.

stand up and say something, everyone's just going to be fine that we die. So there was a big, strong political feeling about being a famous person and actually saying you were gay. It was, you know, they had outed a few and, you know, in bad ways. Yeah, which that's horrible to ever out anybody. Yeah, it was really awful because, you know, it would end careers and it would end, you'd lose your job and all this sort of stuff. And I never was closeted, really, because if you knew me at all, if you met me, I'd introduce you to my girlfriend. You know, I just, there was a line, it was a serious don't ask, don't tell in the early 90s of we we won't ask you if you're gay, and you just don't talk about it, okay? And so finally, it was the election of Bill Clinton and Al Gore, and it really signified a time of change in America,

because we had had, God, 12 years of conservative reagan and bush and it was awful bill got in there and just started humping everybody and he sex came back man sexy back yes it was and it we felt that and it was that night that i was like yeah i'm a lesbian you know didn't did it and it was in the newspapers the next day were you scared like what was that take me on that moment where you were just like, where you were just ready. I was ready. I was done pretending.

Hiding. Yeah, I was done. I didn't, people were starting to ask me. This was already my fourth album. People were starting to ask me the personal questions. Who did you write this about? And someone actually did an article where they said, they changed all the pronouns to my boyfriend.

And I was like, good God, god people are gonna read this and think and know no well she's gay why is she saying that and they think I lied and that made me crazy so my my plan was to come out on Arsenio Hall because he was the cool he was very cool he was one a late-night host that would let me talk and I had all I was ready to when the album came out a few months later but in the meantime I did the inauguration and I came out just it was just the perfect it was divine timing so then as the the there was no social media so this is not something that went poof right but slowly as I did my you know my tour press and and you do pre-interviews with the city you're going to, city by city, they would start asking me questions.

And for three years, all I talked about was being gay because nobody had answered these questions before. And it was just all brand new. So I think it actually helped. Open doors. But helped my career by me coming out I got extra publicity and people were curious I I know I've heard plenty of stories of oh my mother never let me bring your albums into the house you know you were the devil or whatever you know I

know so so there was you know a bit of a dampening and you know but um who knows I I think I have a blessed career absolutely but I also feel like in a way you open doors for other artists after you I hope so that were you know that are in the lifestyle and I listened to Chapel Roan yay and I'm like we we love chapel. We want chapel on the podcast. Oh, hell yeah. I'm like, damn, if I could have written that, if I could have, you know, good luck,

babe. That's, that's just, you know, go, go ahead. It's going to, you're going to have to stop the world to stop this feeling,

you know? And, and all the songs she writes, I'm like, oh yeah, you go girl. You guys need to do something together. I would, I'm like, oh, yeah, you go, girl. You guys need to do something together. I would love to.

She has named me as an influence because she comes from the Midwest also and coming out and stuff. So I know she has an appreciation. So, yeah, you see her, you let her know. Chapel? Anytime, anywhere. We need you and Melissa Etheridge to do a collaboration, Miss Thing, okay? We need that to happen ASap i would i would love that and you know what that would actually go insanely viral because chapel and you together oh my god and your their voices together come on a rock and roll pony club rock and roll pink pony club. Chapel, we need you, baby. We're saying it right here.

Right here, baby. I'm ready. Yeah, she said. I'm ready. She said, I'm ready. Bring it on. So moving on from all this fame, hanging out with, by the way, how is Jennifer Aniston? Are you guys still friends?

I haven't talked to her in years, but the last time I saw her, she is. Did you get her in the divorce? Did you stay with Brad or did you stay with Jen? Because I feel like everybody had to choose at that time. It was really something. I lost contact with Brad. It's not that we chose or anything. It was just this.

It was so hard for everybody. Because that was a really strong sort of kind of Hollywood thing. It still is. They will not. It's freaking 20 something years later and they just don't leave it alone. That's crazy. I know. It's nuts 20-something years later, and they just don't leave it alone. That's crazy. I know. It's nuts.

So I haven't seen it. Because it's like any friendships in your 20s and whatever. Things change, and you grow, and you have children, and you go away. But I have seen her more than I have Brad. But she is a beautiful, incredible, delightful human being. I could never say anything. She's an Aquarius. Oh, see? Yeah. No, she's a wonderful, wonderful human being. I could never say anything. She's an Aquarius. Oh, well, see?

Yeah. No, she's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Oh, I love that. I can't wait to meet her. Oh, yeah. She's great. So moving on from all of this, when do the children come into play? When do you start deciding to have children? Because I know I had heard you say that you didn't want to have kids. And that's where I have been my entire life. And I'm almost 45. And I finally decided with my husband in this last year, I'm like, I would like a little bit of us running around, you know, and for the longest time, I felt the same way that you did.

What changed that for you? I don't know that it changed. I'm really surprised that I have children. Yeah. But what it was was my partner at the time. Again, growing up in the 60s, 70s, even early 80s, it wasn't an option. That was one of the reasons it was so sad to families is, oh, you'll never have children, that sort of thing. And my childhood wasn't so awesome that I thought, oh, I want to bring a child in. And my mothering mirror was not, I didn't have much mothering or nurturing. I didn't

know what I would be like as a mom. So in 95, when my partner was like, I think I want to have kids. And I was like, oh, this is very interesting. And of course, I was like, wow, I don't know what I'll be like. But if you want to have them, I'll be the guy and I'll go work and I'll bring the money home and you raise the kids, right? Something like that in my head. And then my daughter was born and I'm like, oh, oh, wow, this is amazing. And instantly fell in love and realized that I was a dad mom. I mothered like my father and have always been like that. But you're also a generational curse breaker. And I think that you had your dad as a role model, absolutely. But your mom showed you everything you didn't want to be in a mom. So you broke those curses. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I was like, no,

I may not have ever heard I love you but you're gonna hear it every day. You're gonna every time you leave a room I'm gonna tell you I love you. And every in our family whenever someone leaves it goes from one room to the other it's like I love you. It really stays you know. And my children do not ever worry that or think that I don't love them at all in any way. Can we talk about how iconic it is that two of your kids, David Crosby, do we call him the sperm donor? What do we refer to him as?

Bailey calls him her bio dad. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. Because the reason that we chose him, because when my partner said she wanted to have children, Because the reason that we chose him, because when my partner said she wanted to have children, she had been adopted. And she didn't like that she didn't know who her real parents were.

So she wanted her children to know who their father was. I love that, though. I totally agree with that. And I respected that 100%. I was like, okay, but this person, I don't want them to be a father, a figure in their life. I want them to be able to go, that's where I came from. But this is the parent that raised me. And that was really important. One of the reasons that we didn't go with Brad Pitt, who was a very good friend at the time.

Was that an option? That would have been amazing. I know. Believe me, Bailey's like, Brad Pitt could have been my father. Are you insane? But Brad wanted children really bad. Could you imagine those genes? Good Lord.

I know. Pregnance. So he was only, it wasn't, anyway. Yeah. So I run into David Crosby, and him and his wife had just used IVF and different things to conceive their child and so they were very grateful and Jan his wife said

what about David and I thought that's perfect he's a musician and he has children he's iconic Crosby still is a national young I mean come on and he's beautiful and I meanrosby Stills and now and and and he's you know beautiful and I mean people didn't see the beauty that I did in him sometimes Bailey looks like him oh my gosh the

cheeks it's crazy insane yeah yeah she definitely has his cheeks and so I saw her face I was like holy yeah it's crazy isn't it and he looked kind of like me too. So I like that. Yeah. I love that. That's as close as I could get. And he was a wonderful, he was always there, but never, never inserted himself into their life at all. Like. I love that. Like a parent. This is kind of a personal question and we can cut this out, but this is kind of like what I want to know, because we're planning on using a surrogate. And if we can't use my eggs, we're going to be using donor eggs.

surrogate and if we can't use my eggs we're going to be using donor eggs how was it bonding with the children you know with them not having that dna how was that and we can cut this out if you want to oh no no no no not at all um because i just want to respect boundaries but how is how was that bonding let me let let me tell you the that my children are of me. They do not have a drop of my blood in them or DNA or whatever that is. But their souls, their spirit, you will find when you have they have learned to smile and move their facial movements like you because you will have been smiling at them from the moment they were born. So all of my children have my smile. Oh, I just got goosebumps.

And that's so, there is never, there's not a moment's thought, unless someone asks me, that I don't think that these children, that I would step in front of a train, I would, you know, there is no doubt. And it does not come into play ever. I love it. That's how I feel about Bailey. She's not lying biologically, but, like, even people, she has your mannerisms. She, she acts like you.

They will laugh like you. They will, all of that. There is not, you know, and I don't know, physically, that would be the only thing, but the, the features, the spirit, how they look to you, you will be mother. You will always be the only mother. How they look to you, you will be mother. You will always be the only mother. I love that. That makes me so happy. I just wanted to ask that question because, you know, thinking about using donor eggs, you kind of like, you're just like, what if I have, you know, an issue bonding with this baby? But, I mean, I don't think I would because I bonded with Jay's daughter. You know, we've had full custody of her for eight years.

She's my child. Like, I will go to war for this child. There you go. Yeah. And that's just the way it is.'s there's not it's there's nothing to do with DNA yeah thank you I call this my meat suit yeah that's it it is our meat suit yeah it totally I say that to everybody can we move on to your son Beckett yes he was also because you have four children total correct you have twins and then you have Bailey and Beckett.

Okay. So we're going to move on to Beckett. Beckett is also you with your ex-wife and David Crosby's bio dad. What, being in the scene that you're in and, you know, being around drugs and stuff like that and seeing how, you know, substance abuse affected your childhood. How was that whenever your son fell into that? Oh, it was so hard. He, you'll notice that some children just, the wind is always blowing in their face you know it's just it

it's just harder on in all ways and you see it's a lot of what they believe and how they perceive the world and it is never up to us to change anyone's perception only they can do that anyone's perception, only they can do that. So when he, and it was young, it was, you know, 12, 13, you, I could see his pushing against teachers and, and, you know, the first thing you do as a parent is, oh, this is my fault. It's because he's from a broken home. It's because of, you know, and you, who knows? This is this child and, and, and his his mountain and we did everything we could we you know I put him in you know outward bound classes you know sort of thing and and he would be okay and then uh he started getting into snowboarding at you you know, 15, 16, 17. He was back in school, but it was hard to stay in school.

I was trying to do different tutoring for him. And he just got really, really good at snowboarding, you know. I knew, you know, he would, I knew he was smoking pot. I knew he was getting cocaine down the street from the rich kids. And, you know and and you're just trying to hold it together in a way thinking it'll pass and he loved snowboarding and he's the Aspen team starts looking at him and he goes to to train with them and Aspen and he takes a big jump and he falls and breaks his

foot in two places and then they gave him they gave him Vicodin for the pain, which, you know, his whole dreams were broken, so his whole soul was broken. And he never recovered from it. He never got out from the opioids. The opioids became street opioids, heroin. And last thing, when he was 21, he was during the pandemic, and it was fentanyl, and it was fentanyl.

It was over. You know, boom. I couldn't imagine the heartbreak of getting that phone call and just having to deal with that. By the time you get the phone call. You're expecting it. I already went through the, okay, it's either, you know, I'm going to make myself sick now. I can't do this anymore. I can't save him.

I can't, you know, I've gone through the giving him something to help him and do this to taking everything away. So he's homeless to, you know, you do everything and there's nothing and they just keep sinking down and then it's gone. And there's, it's, there's a little bit of a relief. Like, okay, he's finally out of pain and there's nothing and they just keep sinking down and then it's gone and there's it's there's a little bit of a relief like okay he's finally out of pain and there's some peace and you're not worried every time your phone lights up you know and so it was very hard for the last couple years and so when when you send the welfare check because i hadn't heard from him four days and i used to hear from him every single day and four four days, and you just know, and you finally send the police, and they say, yeah, he's dead. Oh, my goodness. But you move on.

You do. And he would not want me to punish myself or feel guilty for some choices he made. He wants me to be happy. He's in a place where he's out of pain. It's okay. I don't need to punish myself for any of that. That was in his soul contract. I believe that. I believe in soul contracts. Not everybody does, but I do believe that before we come here, we want to learn certain types of lessons. And that was his exit strategy. And I really truly feel like people that die from

overdoses, maybe they might've gotten off the path, but that all in all was part of their soul contract. It's going back to the mother. That's what it has been described to me, that heroin takes you back to that place, the feeling of the womb, and they want to go back, and they want to go. I've never heard that. Yeah, it feels like that. Wow.

That's what it feels like, yeah. That is amazing and crazy all at the same time. Amazing. Isn't that life? It's deep. That's very deep. Thank you for talking about that, by the way, because I know it's never. I think it helps because I know there's hundreds and thousands of families who are suffering with it today, right now.

Absolutely. suffering with it today, right now. Absolutely. And if I can help someone feel better, get over, you know, not sink into despair themselves, you know, then that's good. Yes. Testimonies. Testimonies are powerful. And I feel like it also helps people realize, like, because, you know, you're doing this

docuseries, which we'll talk about in a second. I think it will shed light on why you're going so hard. I mean, you've been performing in prison since you were 12 too. So, I mean, it's just kind of like how your life has come full circle. But before we talk about that, can we talk about how you are a breast cancer survivor? Yeah, that is amazing. And I think I heard a story of the morning of the Grammys, you had radiation and had no hair and then you still of the morning of the Grammys. You had radiation and had no hair. And then you still went and performed at the Grammys. You're a soldier.

You're a warrior, woman. I just, I'm not ready to give up. It's not an option. It never has been. And this was 2004. I'm actually 20 years cancer-free this year so yay yeah and um this was after my first divorce this was a very lost time in my life I had had the big success and there's nothing more that's going to freak you out than actually all your dreams coming true

because you're going to realize it doesn't solve all your problems. You know, it's like, oh, I thought this would be, you know, the end. I did it. There you go. It's great. I'll be fine now. That's not life. Life is up and down. And I didn't have a relationship with myself.

I was very sad. I was, you know, here I had become a mother and then instantly we divorced. And now I'm a single mother and I just feel like I let the world down. And it's just a really weird time. And I was eating like crap. It was the end of the 90s, early 2000s, where everyone thought they had to be pencil thin. And so I tortured myself. You know, it's just all this stuff that we would do until my body just said,

look, I can't do it anymore. And there was a tumor on my breast, my left breast. And right before that, just months before that, I had a unintentional, heroic dose of cannabis. Oh, goodness. Yeah, it's one of those, oh, let's have, oh, that's a real good cookie. Oh, this is good. And you eat three and you're only supposed to. She said unintentional, heroic dose. Yes.

That was so poetic. Yes. Poetic as fuck. That's what it was. And it's one of those where your mind opens up. You meet God. You meet God. And I saw God and I understood what life was.

And I came back changed. And then a few months later, I get cancer. And I'm like, wow, this is crazy because I didn't fear death anymore. And I'm on this sort of spiritual path now. And so the cancer just... That's why it happened. It put it into Uber drive, right? It just super... Everything everything changed I changed it was

magnificent and I've been on this high ever since and life is so so that I'm so grateful for breast cancer and I went through it got two surgeries it was stage three they told me you know I was always gonna and I don't believe any of that. I believe that I understood what gave me the cancer. And if I can make joy a priority in my life, if I can eat the things that bring me joy, make me feel good, and do the things and make the choices for myself, that I will be able to live a healthy, happy life. And it's been 20 years, and I think I can brag about it now. Yes, ma'am, you can. You earned that right. You earned those stripes.

I am a firm believer, and I preach this on the podcast. I know they're so tired of hearing it, but what the mind feels, the body will follow. 100%. The body is in reaction to the mind. Like I said, meat soup. Yeah. Total meat soup.

Absolutely. And I know instantly. I can tell. It's like, oh, this hurts. That hurts. Oh, that's because, you know, you get things and it's, wow, I've been feeling very closed down. I've been, you know, of course my back's going to start hurting. I don't feel supported.

You know, just all of that stuff. And it makes our bodies make sense. all of that stuff, and it makes our bodies make sense. When you have the belief that, oh, something might happen to me, I might get cancer out of nowhere, I might get heart disease out of nowhere, that's not how it works. It's stress. What you fear, you'll feed.

Yes, thank you. You know it all. No, for sure. You're on that journey. Well, I had to. I got sober, and I saw the dark night and went on my spiritual journey. And I'm telling you, I just got misdiagnosed with an aneurysm last month. And I told myself, like, I thought I was going to pass out when I got the news, said it was on my carotid artery. And my mom actually had one and almost died.

So I felt like I was going to pass out anyways, long story short, because this isn't about me, but it's just, I didn't believe it. I was like, this is not, and if I do, and if I do have it, I'm going to have surgery and it's going to be fine or whatever. I was getting a CAT scan. I heard the loudest voice in my head and it said, it's not an aneurysm. Went to two neurosurgeons, turned out that I have two identical blood vessels on both sides of my carotid arteries that's just my part of my DNA so I was just like praise Jesus you know like it's a miracle but you have to literally just no matter what I think our our life lesson is to learn how to have faith you cannot

control everything and you have to just sometimes you have to say you know what God whatever your will is going to be or whatever higher power you believe in, you know, it's just whatever your will is, let it happen. And, and that has been the most exciting 20 years of my life have been the last. When you, when you stop trying to make your happiness dependent on other people or other things, when you can find your happiness inside yourself and you're in charge of it, Oh, that's so powerful. That's so powerful. And that's, that's, that's the path. That's, that's where you want to walk. That's the good stuff. It gets really good. And you start changing the world like you have. Absolutely. You too though. When we first met you at Music Cares, I just, I told my husband, I was like, I love this

woman. I was like, she has such amazing energy. You just have angel energy. And you can tell when people are good humans, you know? And my husband just adores you. Like, he's like, I can't believe Melissa Etheridge is my friend. He's just so excited. Like, he just can't believe it. Him and you and Bon Jovi just blow his mind. The fact that you guys, that he can call you guys friends. He's just like, this is amazing to me.

He's special, too. And you know that he can call you guys friends he's just like this is amazing to me he's he's he's special too and you know yeah you know that and he's he's got that big wonderful heart and of course as his friend I do I think about him a lot and and I know what a weird space it can be and I tell him and I would tell you to man call me just oh i'm gonna call you now please do yeah i'm gonna give you my number because i don't trust him to give it to you yeah no yeah so moving on how did we meet wifey because i i stumbled upon a really cool well it was awesome to me because i'm into astrology and all that stuff you guys have the same freaking birthday like how like only two gemini's would find love in each

other I mean I think that's hilarious because you guys are either exactly alike or you guys are opposite ends of the spectrum are you guys exactly both yeah so we'll start with I met her 22 three years ago? 23, 2001. So 23 years ago. She is a television creator, writer, producer.

Yay. Boss mama. She was, yeah, boss mama big time. Love that. She was the showrunner for the 70s show,

that 70s show. Oh, awesome. And, went on, she's created Nurse Jackie and she's, she's a pioneering woman. That's amazing. Yeah, she's, she's a pioneering woman.

That's amazing. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Nurse Jackie was huge, dude. It was. That's amazing. One of the, in the first thing to ever really deal with, you know,

opioid abuse, first show that ever talked about it. So she called me in because she was doing a new show called The 80s Show. And she called me in because she liked my work and respected me and thought I would be, it was a character that ran a music store. And she just really wanted to base the show on a strong, so I came in came in met her instantly it was like they offered me the part and I was touring and the money didn't you know and I couldn't you know and I was like oh god I can't do it but I really liked her and this was back in the early 2000s before they had reality shows it was like reality shows were about to come in and I remember sitting

at a table because we said we want's do something together, you know? And she saw how very interesting my life was and was like, man, if we could just have a couple cameras around your life. I was like, that's weird. And then the Osbournes came out right after. And we were like, oh, my God, they took that idea. But it was in the ether. But so we were best friends.

She became my best friend because we were so much alike. And we loved football. Yeah. Humongous. Who's the team? She's a Packers fan. Green Bay Packers. She grew up, was born in Wisconsin, grew up in Illinois, but remained a Packer fan.

Gotcha. I grew up in Kansas, so I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan and I am enjoying life very much these last few years. Oh, for sure. My husband thinks they're going to go to the Super Bowl this year. Well, of course. I think your husband and I should go to the Super Bowl. Let's do it.

We can all go. Oh, my God. That would be amazing. It's in Vegas. Is it? No, it's not. It's in New Orleans. Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was in Vegas last year. Yeah, yeah. It's in New Orleans. Yeah, so we were best friends. She helped me through cancer as my friend. best friends. She helped me through cancer as my friend. She saw me through the hard times in my relationship, again my second marriage. She knew all my children. My children loved and adored her, especially my oldest. When I went

through my spiritual change, she was one of the only one that would listen to me and was interested and understood. And we were extremely close as best friends. Then when my marriage fell apart, she was working on Nurse Jackie in New York, and she was selling her house. And I was like, well, come stay with me. You know, my wife's gone, and I have no housekeeper, and I have four children, and I'm a single mom. And so she came and stayed. And the thought had crossed her mind that maybe we might take a step further I was like I suck at relationships I'm horrible I'm never going to be in a relationship again and no but but be my friend and help me yeah and for months she would get up with me

she would make the lunches for all four kids she would help me with the breakfast she would until one and every night after they went to bed, we'd sit and talk. And just our relationship was just like this. And then one day, little ones were running around. The two-year-olds were running around. And we had changed some things in the kitchen. And I was like, where are the sippy cups? And she looks at me and she goes, well, dear.

And I went, because it went inside and you know all of a sudden that was the click of man I'm finally having the relationship with a person this home relationship that I always wanted that I could count on someone who I could I knew could help me with my children who all these things. And I find her attractive. Oh, shit. Oh, no, what am I going to do now? And I didn't want to mess up our friendship. But she was like, she just.

Did you love her? Oh, yeah. And I didn't know just how deeply. Because I was in my own relationship syndrome and whatnot. So, but yeah, I guess my soul did. Yeah. And it has never, because soon we found out our differences, which were very good. And worked together.

And the sexual part of the relationship has been better than I've ever had in my life. Fire! I had no idea. I had no idea. And it's been, how many years have we been together? 10, 15? Oh my goodness. I forget, you know, when you get to a point, you know, but they didn't let us get married until 10 years ago. So we're married 10 years.

I love that. Isn't it amazing when you find that person? It just happens. And I think it happened because I finally got myself into a place of, because I used to believe, I had to have that beautiful, straight looking, smart, not smart, but beautiful and straight, because those were things I didn't feel and I felt I needed that. And I would fall in love with the look and just hope they fit later. And that was no way to do it. Disaster. And finally, I've had this solid relationship with a person, and I'm like, oh, I can fall in love with that. You can fall in love with a soul.

With a soul. That's how it is with my husband. I just love his soul. And I love myself enough to see that, no, no, it's about me being happy. This person makes me so happy. To be together that long and to still feel that way, what is your guys' secret? If you could give anybody relationship advice, what's one key thing? I say this because we say it to each other all the time because we understand it.

You have to love yourself as much as you want the other person to love you. You have to take care of yourself as much as you want to take care of your partner and you want them to take care of you. You have to. There are certain things that it's not about the other person doesn't fill you up. You have to fill you up. And then that joy allows all this happiness. We can't save our partners we have to be a light in ourselves

she went through a health thing a couple years ago and i knew it's like okay i can't get sick enough to make her well i have to be well i have to be enjoying my career i have to be loving where I'm going so that I can be a light so that she can raise up, be inspired by that. That's what we do. We inspire each other. She inspires me. Oh my God, there's so many times I fall down a deep hole and she's like, are you crazy? You know, you know, you silly girl. She doesn't go down there with me. She stays up know and we have because we fill ourselves up we are there for the other one that's powerful i love that that's amazing that's so real too because i feel like people get lost in each other yeah when they get into and that's i think that's love right we were raised with that we were raised with mothers that said you have to take care of me yes you know

if you do this i'll die and and we think that we have to take care of me. Yes. You know, if you do this, I'll die. And we think that we have to be something for somebody else to be okay. Boy, you got, you have to change that because that, that will make you sick. No, that's how Jay and I are. We, we love each other immensely, but we also make sure that we each have our own separate things to where it's like, we're each other's rocks in different ways you know it's like if he falls down i lift him up if i fall down he lifts me up and that's really the way you have to do it you have to be steadfast in yourself to be able to you know maintain a relationship for a long time we've only been together eight years you guys have us way beat

eight's good i mean yeah listen i don't know how we've made it this long. I always tell everybody, they're like, congratulations on eight years. I'm like, I think you need to congratulate him on surviving. Yeah. And you know what? We do it every day, and we just learn more every single day. This is a practice. We're supposed to get it wrong.

Yeah. And there's not even – you can't get it wrong because you can always do it more. And you learn. You live and you learn. And I really truly believe friendship is a huge basis for any relationship because my husband and I are friends

before we're lovers. That's exactly us. And we always say, or she'll say to me, she goes, gosh, I love your girlfriend now. No.

Because, you know, she used to, anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. You know, know I'm not gonna explain the joke gotcha okay moving on from the love story let's talk about this docuseries oh man yes growing up in Leavenworth Kansas actually when I was seven years old Johnny Cash came to the prison that was three blocks from my house. I could see it from the backyard. Wow. Yes.

Federal penitentiary. It was a big part of Leavenworth. It's just, it was part of my childhood. And there it was. And he came and none of us got to see him. Nobody but the prisoners. And I thought, prisons must be a place of fine entertainment. You know?

I want to do that. So I kind of started with that as a child. But then later when I did go in with some variety groups and these crazy things that I did go in to entertain, I saw everyday people. They're all in the same clothes. And, you know, you could tell that, you know, they were here and they weren't incredibly happy. But I saw people who were fed

by entertainment and joy and music and how much it did and they were so enthusiastic for anything they saw. I would sing and it was the first time an audience was like,

yes! You know, a hundred people. Aw. Two hundred people. Yeah. To a twelve-year-old, you know? Yeah. Wow. That people to a 12 year old, you know? Wow. That's just insane though, that they even allowed a 12 year old in a prison.

I know. Believe me, you don't know how insane it is. It's crazy, but it really happened. And it was, I went into the women's prison, which was the first time I saw, I was like, looked at the audience and I thought, I thought this was the women's prison. It was the first time I saw women, masculine women, you know. And it kind of blew my mind. And then went into the state penitentiary. I went into the army penitentiaries there. Played in every single one of those. And have always in the back of my mind thought of it.

As a matter of fact, in the early 90s, I was friends with Tammy Wynette. She was a beautiful woman. And we both had a desire to go play at a women's penitentiary. And we were talking to HBO about going to one in Virginia that was run by women, and it was a women's penitentiary. And then she got sick and died. And so I had almost done it in the 90s. So it's always been in my mind that I wanted to go back into a prison. Well, now my life goes on. I lose my son. I become very involved with finding alternatives to pain reduction and to opioid addiction. And I go in, I finally get the opportunity, Paramount Plus, MTV say, yeah, we'll do this. And Sun Records, they paid for the album.

I've got a live album now out on Sun Records, which I've never had a live album. And I'm so thrilled about it. And the concert was the Topeka Correctional Facility finally found the warden, a female warden. She's so good that she's now in charge of all the wardens of Kansas. Wow. Yeah, she has been promoted. She's so good because she understands that their punishment is their freedoms taken away. It's not up to her to punish them more in the prison.

That's so amazing. It's rehabilitating them and getting them out. Yes. So she says yes. When we come ask, can we do a concert? She's like, yes. I say, how long? She goes, how long do you want?

I say, I'm going to curse. And they're going to get really excited because that's what I do to an audience is bring people up. And she's like, go ahead. I'm like, okay, here we go. And it changed my life. And because so many of those women are in there because of crimes committed to feed their drug addiction, I related. And I got to tell you, there's a moment when I'm on stage and I'm talking to the crowd, these women who have lost their freedom.

They are in there. They are working hard to try to get their lives together. And, you know, joy is hard to find. And I start telling them about my son and how I had lost him. And the outpouring of empathy and caring, every one of them put the little hearts over their heads. I was like this wave of empathy from an audience that surely has had so much happening. They don't even see their children. And it really showed me that people are people.

And we all have the same makeups. And we all have our own times that we've got to go through our stuff. But there they were, just being empathetic and delightful. And it really, I can't wait for you to really sit down with it. Oh, we are. We told you we have a 14-hour track. We're going to watch it. And it's available on?

Paramount+. Paramount+, okay. And it's called I'm Not Broken. Where did you come up with that title? Well, there's a couple things. In the movie, I write them a song. Right. And I met them.

I really felt like I didn't want to write a song that was like feeling sorry for them, you know, sad, you know, oh, the green, green grass of home or something. I didn't want to make them sad. Right, right. Right? You know? And I'm like, I want to lift them up. I want them to see what power they have and that where they are did not define, you know,

where they're going yeah and and so I wanted a rock and roll song I wanted a song that they that we could do a call and response to you know and and just get lift people up and I was like what are the things I want to say I want to say I'm a burning woman so that the name of the song is I'm a burning woman and I was with a friend of ours a director um Amy Tinkham she had directed my Broadway uh show and she had just been like uh researching Bob Marley because she did his show in Vegas and and she was she had been to this mountaintop with this reggae Rastafarian man and and this take her to the priest and the priest just looks at her and says, you're not broken.

And it just healed her. She was like, oh, didn't know that that was a belief. And she came home and when she said, I'm not broken, I was like, that's it. That's it. That's exactly what I want to say. So the chorus is I'm a burning woman. I'm not broken. I'm a burning woman, I'm not broken. I'm a burning woman, I am worth it. And that's what I wanted to leave with them. So the Paramount, and we all agreed that the name of the thing would be, I'm not broken. You're not broken, you're just learning.

Have you ever stopped to think that that song is kind of like an affirmation? Oh, all of my songs are 100% affirm no it is there's just as much healing going on for me yeah as there was in in the crowd and and that's not i love singing it every night even if people don't know it i get it's the only song i've ever cursed in yeah you know i yeah oh i love that you know and so i told the audience i said spicy i know good spice this is strong language in this and i just you know singing it and um just bringing it and it and it's just it's definitely an affirmation i'm not broken and i i'm i am worth it and i sing that to myself every single night i love that and you guys have to check it out. It's on Paramount+.

Please do. We're going to watch it while we're driving from L.A. to El Paso in the next few days, so I can't wait. I'll text you because I'll have your number. That's right. I'll be like, hi, Melissa, I watched it. This is your new BFF. We'll have a group text.

We'll have a group chat. You're not going to get rid of us now. We're going to be all over you. I love it. And let's talk about you have a tour and an album dropping, and then I'll let you out of, I'll let you out of here because I've kept you for so long. No, the live album is I'm Not Broken. It's the live album. It's a double album set, just like in the seventies, like Peter Frampton. It's, it's this concert. It's got the hits on it, but it's also has some deep tracks that I really

wanted to bring to the women about, and fear and darkness and these things. And the tour I'm on, I'm always on tour because that's what I love to do. I like my husband. You guys just live in a bus. I can do that. That's my husband, too. If it wasn't for my children, might not. Because my wife comes with me.

We're like, yeah, it's what it's all about. I love that. Me, too. I have't for my children might not because my wife comes with me and we're like yeah it's what it's all about I love that me too I have my own bus though smart I was like you're not putting me on a bus

with 11 dudes not happening okay well there's four five dudes on our no four dudes on our bus and us two so it's okay

I have a small band I love it yeah so we're going out doing some dates on my own I've just got about six weeks left I think and then some dates with Jewel but this summer I did some dates with the Ind on my own. Well, I've just got about six weeks left, I think. And,

and then some dates with Jewel. But this summer I did some dates with the Indigo girls and they were great. It was huge. It was really great. I didn't know they were still together. Yeah. They've, they've,

yeah, we're all coming together. It's a big, like nineties fest. And I think we're going to do some more. I think we're going to do. Yeah. What was it?

Lilith fair. Do you remember that? What do you, what do you think? I want to know your definition of what Lilith Fair do you remember that what do you what do you think I want to know your definition of what Lilith Fair was I went one year and I forget who was playing because I was so fucked up but my definition of Lilith Fair was like just a bunch of powerful women who got to go and bring other women together and like that's why we went because it was so I've always been like woman power you know I never played Lilithrah that's another thing but i do i do think there's another like

all female powerful something coming yeah it needs to come back around and we need to have powerhouses like you stevie nicks like yeah just everybody just go and fucking perform i'll be there yeah i might show my titties because I'll be super excited. It's going to be all women there anyways. Come on. Yeah. I think maybe we need to design that. Let's do it. Let's set it up. All right. Melissa, thank you so much for coming and just being able to sit down with you for this past hour and a half has been just a blessing. My pleasure. You are a delightful woman and I am just blessed to be in your presence. Oh, listen. You guys all want to make out because we can.

I'm making wifey into this, too. So you guys, I got to let you go because Bailey is getting married. You are heading out to. Her engagement party, which is a thing they do nowadays. Yes, I guess. I never had an engagement party, but okay. It's going to be. So how cool is that to have you as a mother-in-law, though?

Oh, she puts up with it. You know, kids are kids. No famous you are no matter who you are what you do you still are you can still let them down you can still you can still not perfect no i get it i totally get we have we got our daughter at home and sometimes she's like i'm just you know can you guys just turn it off yeah i'm like what do you mean I know yeah we're good we're fine everything's great aww well thank you guys again for being here

and I'm so happy I got to meet Wifey too oh yeah and thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde I'll see you guys

next week bye