Dumb Blonde - Menendez Murders: Abuse & Atrocity

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Bunnie and Meme are coming in hot to dissect the infamous Menendez brothers case. With notes in hand, they dive deep into Lyle and Erik Menendez’s disturbing family dynamics, abusive upbringing, and the media’s twisted portrayal. They also weigh in on the Ryan Murphy docuseries—where it got the details right and where it missed the mark on the brothers’ pain. Were they cold-blooded killers or victims of unimaginable abuse? As testimonies unfold and shocking revelations emerge, you'll question everything you thought you knew about one of America’s most scandalous murders.Watch Full Episodes & More:www.dumbblondeunrated.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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a question. I want to know why in the hell are you not on Patreon? I don't think you guys even realize how much content we have on Patreon. Let me it down for you we have the bunny xo show we have meet the d forts we have propaganda we have more shows that we're adding and not to mention we have the visuals of the podcast head over to www.patreon.com backslash dumb blonde podcast and sign up bunny xo she was a vegas group bunny xo is this thing on? What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome back to another episode of Don't Blonde. True Crime Month, baby. My favorite month.

I know. I love it. I would do true crime all the time. Are we? I don't know. Shall we? We said that last time, too. And then we did it for two more months. And then we were like, okay, interviews. Today, we are going to be talking about Lyle and Eric Menendez.

They are so just literally like the entire world has re-embraced them. And it really warms my heart because I followed this trial um I was I think like how old was I let me look yeah I was about so it was 89 I was nine when this trial was going on. So I followed it. Um, so I, I remember how the world made it look back then. And then as I got older, I still kind of like kept in tune with it. Cause I've always been like a true crime junkie and I learned more and more and more. And I've always, always, always thought those boys did not get a fair shot. So in lieu of the new Ryan Murphy, uh,

you know, is that a documentary or a TV show? Darkie series, right? I feel like it's a TV show though, because it's based on true events, but it's also very Hollywood. Yes.

So yeah, which we'll talk all about that too. And what our opinions about it are but for those of you that live under a fucking rock we are going to cover this entire case from fucking pillar to post and hopefully we can um you know share our opinions and how we feel about the situation with y'all you're all speculations yes everything's alleged um and we'll go from there how does that sound so what we're gonna do is we're gonna start from when the murders happened but as we talk about the murders and the court case and stuff like that everything will be revealed about their

childhood and and you know just it'll all make sense so i know at first we're normally we start from the beginning and then let it build up to it but now we're just going to literally dive straight into the night that the murders happened everything that happened after that and then by the time lyle and eric get on stand to testify all of the stuff about their childhood like this one yeah we're coming in hot we've got fucking notes when i tell look when i tell you look at this open them open them when i tell you these are the lyle and eric menendez notes we studied this is crazy you guys like i'm telling you we went deep yeah we really just because i wanted to know everything you know like i feel like the carly greg there wasn't a lot to know you know

so it was like there was that story still unfolding literally i mean for it to have just happened so this happened so long ago that we've had you know over a decade multiple decades and i would just like to put it out there lyle and eric menendez when you guys do get freed because i believe you will i would love to have you guys on the podcast. Don't come for me internet because I want people who have murdered people on the podcast though. And by the way, we will be talking about Wade Wilson next week and we have Diane Ruiz's boys coming on the podcast.

JD delay is going to be with me. It's going to be a deep dive and a lot of shocking bombshells will be dropped. Yes, there will be. Cause I have been saving everything for the documentary that we were working on. And I called the documentary off just because we'll get into that whenever we talk about it. But, yeah, I'm ready to go in about that. And I'm ready to speak my mind.

Oh, we are parked in downtown Chicago. I can hear the cars going by outside. So if you guys hear background noise honking because everyone in Chicago likes to honk, that's what's happening. We just ate the best fucking food out here, though. So good. Can somebody tell me why Chicago has the best freaking food? So good.

No, it's insanity. But, yeah, I'm hoping that you guys are loving the True Crime Tour Bus. Yes. True Crime Tour Bus Edition is what we're doing over here so but we just you know we wanted to stick with tradition and we wanted to make sure that you guys um you know had some stuff to listen to during the month of october all right so we are gonna kick this off lyle and eric menendez on the night of the murders that happened. So that is August of 1989. Jose Menendez, an executive at RCA Records,

and his wife Kitty Menendez are shot and killed by shotgun blasts in their Beverly Hills mansion. At 1147 p.m., Lyle, the son, calls 911 and said, someone killed my parents. Distraughtly calls. Distraughtly calls, yes.ly calls yes like is like i mean just playing it up like boy they said it even said both boys were hysterical almost overreacting yes so you know as you guys know lyle and eric killed them but you know they lived this life of like

just lavishness. They lived in a mansion in Beverly Hills. I think their zip code was even 90210. Yeah. Like, that's so fucking just, like, par for the course. It's, like, the most, like, Hollywood, L.A.-type neighborhood you could possibly imagine. Quiet mansions. It's insane.

Jose was a record exec for Rca and like i think like was like don't quote me on this he was either owner or heavily heavily involved with hertz rental cars so like the dudes they had money you know they were more than enough money they were doing great um eric has said in an interview that you, if the police would have pressed them, he would have folded because they had zero alibi and they also had gunpowder residue all over their hands. Yeah, they're very sloppy. Yeah, very sloppy. Like these boys, when as things start to unfold, you're going to understand why they did this. Like I said, you must live under a rock if you don't know the story, but stay with us you don't know the story um so i mean like they literally didn't even think about it you can

tell it was almost a crime of passion because they didn't think everything out they just literally went downstairs and blew their fucking parents heads off yeah you know they didn't put together a plan they didn't like rehearse this they didn't go over anything it just it happened they panicked yeah shortly after and that's when the so-called alibis or like the cleanups or whatever they attempted those came into play in passion like you said yeah i don't think they tried to clean up anything like the any gun shells and stuff remember they walked in and grabbed all the gun shells um yeah oh that's right because he says right here he says had they had searched their car there were gun shells inside the vehicle and his vehicle was inside the search

area so yes you were right good crazy you caught that that's good i was paying attention like this is this is definitely something i'm like like overloaded with research on this. It's like I find it crazy that this kind of falls back into last week's episode of like they're smart kids. Yeah. But they're not street smart kids. Right. I mean, they grew up in frickin Beverly Hills. Yeah.

It's crazy. They know how to do drive bys or anything. um so eric also went on to tell the detectives because like you know they were never um pinpointed as suspects like which is crazy to me because you gotta think these detectives go into this crime scene both parents heads are blown off with shotgun shells in beverly hills the sons immediately are not suspects one i think because of the dad's stature yeah i truly believe that that's why they didn't treat them bad because they were just like oh they wouldn't they could never do this you know but secondly they didn't even test the boy's hands for for gunpowder residue had they had done that you know they would have been like something's not

so when the cops show up the first thing that lyle is, like, pressing is, like, I think the mom did this. You know, that was their alibi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So, like, he immediately was just like, nope, it wasn't us. Yeah. You know? And so I believe, like you said, the dad's role in the community and his ability to have, like, this perfect persona of a family.

Just a powerful man. Yeah. They were like, oh, no no the kids could never yeah absolutely so you know the boys did get brought in for questioning but i mean that's just like par for the course if you're at any murder or you walk in on any crime scene so he said that if the detectives have been paying attention when the detectives and him were talking he said that he discovered his parents and that he saw smoke the smoke yeah the room was filled with smoke so how weren't they arrested was surprising to him is exactly what he said and he said because seeing smoke would mean he would have had to have been there around the time of the crime yes so you know there was just so many clues so many things that so obvious at the boys but i think that the people in the community and the police just

didn't want to believe it no not at all i don't think anyone thought of them and like it truly was this when they do get caught and we'll get to it's like, they could have gotten away with this. Yeah. Yes. They could have gotten away with this. They would have gotten away with it for sure. You know what I mean? But I do agree.

The slip ups, it all points to me that this was passion. Oh, absolutely. This was a passion kill. For sure. Uh, people thought it was strange that the boys were still living in the same house that their parents were murdered in. So even after they blew their parents heads off,

the boys continued to thrive and live in the same house. And you know, that's when people started kind of being like, this is a little weird. Yeah. I wonder if anyone suspected it prior to them getting caught. I wonder how many people were like, maybe the boys actually did do this. And no one was willing to speak up because of their stature.

Yeah. Well, I feel like especially back in the day, like in the 80s and 90s, people fucking minded their business. I mean, that's true. No one's posting it on TikTok. Nobody is trying to expose anybody in the 80s and 90s dude and like now how it is now motherfuckers would be like i think he fucking did it they'd fucking do a fucking they'd have a podcast about it they'd have a podcast about it like it would everybody's exposing everybody back then motherfuckers didn't say a word no they kept to themselves they would talk about it like during coffee or like

over a cigar or some shit but like in the streets yeah like you know gossip that's what i'm wondering like i wonder how many times they sat down and were like i bet you those boys did it hands down for sure i'm sure there was a couple people who thought that too but because of you know again who jose was a lot of people just didn't want to, you know, I guess rock the boat. Yeah, badly of him also, because like he put out this persona that in this community and his work and everything that he was like the perfect family man. So Lyle has been quoted as saying, I didn't have good coping mechanisms as a child. I was comfortable with keeping secrets.

So I mean, that right there for him, and this is before he even said anything about, you know, the abuse or anything like that. Um, for him to say that he was comfortable keeping secrets, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. If you, you know, some crazy shit's going on in that family that you can kill your parents and just act like nothing happened. Exactly. And like, I do feel like the over dramatized phone calls and like the acting that when the police were there goes to show how good of a liar he can be. Yeah. They said that Lyle also did 90% of the talking after the parents' deaths because, you know, Lyle is the older brother so he kind of like they said

that he began having business meetings with people to try to carry out what they thought their father would want them to do it's like it's crazy when you think about it because these boys were like it's almost like they were living I don't know it's almost like a fantasy role play of like, maybe they genuinely were so fucked up from what happened in their house that they, well, what I've noticed in all the research too is these boys still had like this weird, tremendous respect for their father, which isn't that like Munchausen syndrome? Kind of. I would assume it's like a first. Oh no,holm that's i was like more stockholm syndrome yeah yeah sorry not munchausen uh stockholm syndrome because like they still wanted to carry out like their his father's plans at the funeral they talked about what a great man their father was and like it's like they were still hunting for that approval even after he was gone yes that's

truly what it was it's like what would my dad think right now yeah would he be happy with yes would he be happy with what i'm doing would he be happy with that and to give you guys perspective on lyle and eric lyle was the older one and he was a very dominant out of the two eric i feel like was just stuck in this like little boy little boy innocence so sweet while lyle was very pushed forward very aggressive he was the aggressor of the two he's the first born he was the first born he was the first abused and he was kind of like the protector exactly and poor eric you know just was this just was this little nugget. Yeah, I was gonna say nugget. So I see Lyle being the one

after the deaths to pursue these businesses and he's carrying on life like his parents never died. Like they're on vacation or something. Yeah, like weekend at Bernie's and shit. They also enlisted a meeting with a writer to do a book

on their father about what a great man he was, as well as we're talking about going into politics because that's what they had said their father was planning on doing. It's like he's becoming his father. That's exactly what they said. They said that he that Lyle literally stepped into the shoes of his father and like took his father's place. Wow. Yeah. Lyle also was the one who spent a lot of time at his parents gravesites and that to me kind of shows maybe remorse empathy yeah it's like

he does feel bad in a sense but we'll get to that says Lyle read a letter at the funeral from his father and was said to start becoming and acting like his father. He became extremely calm and cool. They both handled the deaths of their parents differently. Eric becoming withdrawn and quiet. So Eric, you know, has Eric is more of a sensitive soul. Yes. And he internalizes everything he also suffers with severe depression he also has a lot of mental um you know uh health mental health issues and

um you know whereas lyle probably was just in survival mode. All the time. Yeah. I feel like Eric was more in that fawn mode. And Lyle was in fight or flight. All the time. His cortisol levels must be insane. Literally. Well, now I'm sure I have a hope and pray that they're better.

But yeah. For what those boys had to go through. Absolutely. And they just both took on the pain way differently exactly and that just goes to show you can go through both can go through something similar within a house and you as a person is going to deal with that trauma in such different ways yes so you know Lyle becoming this strange interpretation of his business-like father he even hired bodyguards saying he feared for his life from the mob because he was like really playing into his alibi quote unquote that he had and you

know whatever i mean they had the money so he probably was just fucking squandering it so they went shopping and started buying each other lavish gifts. Eric, who was a really good tennis player, hired a tennis coach for like $50,000 a year, which back in 89, $50,000. It's crazy. You could buy a house for like $50,000 to $100,000 back then. Eric said it was all to cover up not wanting to be alive. He said that the only reason he didn't kill himself was because he didn't want to be a disappointment to his father oh again just trying to like live out this like childhood something i don't even know how to put that into words but more like they truly believed that their father wanted these things from them it also goes to show that when you are abused by somebody, you still

love them and you still want that attention, that affection and that acknowledgement from them. Yeah. That's often like, you know, people, why did you stay with your abuser? Like, why are you still in a relationship with him? This goes to show that trauma bonds, trauma bonds. It can happen with siblings. It can happen with relatives. It can happen with significant others. It can happen with parents. And this is one of those situations. Yeah, exactly. Lyle has gone on the record to even say that he didn't enjoy being considered a playboy

and that it was just all a facade to, you know, cover up what they had done. So during all of this, Eric had ended up getting in trouble for burglary while his parents were alive. And the court ordered him to go to a therapist, enter Dr. Ozeal, and that's who Eric started going to. That doctor never made Eric feel safe because Jose told Dr. Ozeal, everything that my son tells you, you need to tell me and you need to sign this affidavit saying that you will. So Eric knew that he couldn't confide in this doctor at all and never once confided in this doctor about the abuse. Never said anything about wild. He has to go to them for robbery, but yeah, let's this doctor about the abuse never said anything about wild he has to go to them for robbery but yeah let's forget about all the abuse yeah let's let's forget about all the

let's forget why i robbed people yeah so after the deaths the deaths were just too heavy on eric and he was just like i've got to get this out of me so he goes and he sees none other than Dr. Ozil. And when he sits down with Dr. Ozil, he's, you know, really nervous, really agitated because he's pretty much suicidal at this point. And he goes and tells Dr. Ozil, hey, let's take a walk because he was afraid that the session was being recorded. Yep. And in that walk, he confides to the doctor that he killed, that him and Lyle committed the murders of his family. Yeah. So Dr. Ozil does not take this upon himself to go to the police and tell the police. He looks at this as like a perfect blackmail moment. Just a disgusting human.

Yeah. You know, I mean, would you expect any less from somebody who was in business with the dad? You know? So instead, he has a side bitch named Judilon Smith, who he decides to confide in and tell like, hey, Eric and Lyle Menendez just confessed their murders to me. I need you to come sit in in one of the sessions and kind of eavesdrop in the waiting room. So he had Judilon come in, sit in one of the sessions outside and like with her ear up against the door or whatever, sitting in the waiting room. And he immediately gets on tape these confessions because he wants to have something to hold over the boy's heads for obviously for monetary reasons.

And by the way, Dr. Ozel's license during this time was already suspended. I don't think anybody knew that, but he just wasn't a great character. He wasn't a great human. Horrible man. Literally took advantage of these boys. Yes. Because in their most vulnerable moments. Yeah.

Like in their most vulnerable moments yeah like in their multiple vulnerable moments you know eric has said that he admitted these deaths to dr ozil because he was really wanting to kill himself and depressed he didn't know where else to turn eric had like you had already said eric internalizes everything while lyle like projects it all in like with money or with like um attention and eric is just so soft-spoken he's got he's really got that michael um jackson where it's like he's stuck in that age where that abuse started and he didn't know how to do this and i hate that the person that he felt most comfortable to turn to and i know he thought the only reason he could turn to him is because like legally he couldn't go tell anyone so like i get that but like how sad is that you had no one in your life you could confide to and then you end up having to go to the worst person

ever i feel like his family would have had his back more than the fucking doctor i feel like they would have too because they've seen it they've been So, yeah, and we'll get into that, too. During all of this, Dr. Ozel also confided in his wife, too. Not only did he confide in his side bitch, he confided in his wife. So there's two. Now we've got three people who know about what's going on. He said he was confiding in them because he feared his life. Right. I was just getting into that.

He said he also told both his wife and his mistress that lyle had threatened his life but still never went to police get out of here lyle has even gone on record to say like that's absolutely false i never threatened his life you know and if i did threaten his life why didn't he just go to the police he never went to the police he literally was just like out for himself yeah concocting this story just to try to definitely probably blackmail well lo and behold good old side bitch judalon decides to get mad at dr ozale probably because he wouldn't leave his wife but she said that he had kidnapped her and held her against his will will and raped her which we're not here to discuss any abuse that

it could have happened could possibly happen yeah we're not here to speculate on what happened to judelon but this was her reasoning for going to the police and when she goes to the police she's hysterical she's like oh my god um he raped me he did this he did that oh by the way he also has the menendez brothers on record saying that they killed their parents so this wasn't the first thing that she told the police it was more about like what's going on with her and like how he did her wrong and you know even the police back then didn't believe her like what was going on but when she said that he had these tapes of the boys that's when the police's ears perked up and you know the police i feel at that point are like and they kind of

discussed this in that docu-series on netflix um about how they feel like they're internalized in the fact they're not doing a very good job and that could be we don't like that's not actual proof right more of like hollywood type stuff but this could be actually happening these dudes could literally just be in such a rut that it's like they were willing to grasp onto any information that was coming out. Because, of course, they didn't test the son's hands. Right. You know, so they have nothing.

And they probably didn't do a very good job at the crime scene. Yeah. And by the way, his side bitch used to be one of his clients, which right there tells you another character defect of Dr. Ozil. You're not supposed to be, is that like a HIPAA violation? Yeah. You're not like supposed to date your clients,

but whatever. So the police watching this from the sidelines was when it started to make the police kind of think like, Hmm, something is not right. This is a motive here. So they start investigating and they discover where the boys had bought the guns in San Diego. So before the boys did the murders, and we're going to get into

all of this because none of this comes out until they get on the stand, is that Lyle and Eric said that they feared for their lives because of their parents. You know, there was a situation that happened, which we'll get into in a little bit. And Lyle and Eric felt like they needed to protect themselves. So they went down to San Diego and I think they used like a cousin's ID or something. And they bought two shotguns from a gun shop. So the police found out about that. And that right there shows the murder weapons. March of 1990. Lyle is is this is almost a year later lyle is arrested by

police and eric turns himself in days later after returning from israel they are accused of first degree murder so this is where it starts getting fucking hairy dude oh like it starts getting fucking crazy like i i you can't make this shit up like this is a fucking this is literally a hollywood movie yes ryan murphy knew what he was doing when he made that doc absolutely and we talk about the fact that like he portrayed them and like the the way that he put this together i mean it, it was a spectacular. Monsters is something, like, everyone should watch. Yeah. So, let's talk about it really quick before we get into all the details and stuff like that.

So, I don't know if you guys have seen all the hoopla online about Ryan Murphy's documentary about Lyle and Eric Menendez. I watched the documentary myself or the docu-series myself and I have to say this is only my opinion everybody else is entitled to their opinions but this is how I took the Ryan Murphy thing first of all Ryan Murphy is notorious for fucking American horror story it's what he does he does horror very well and when i watched the docu-series it fucking kept me glued to the screen you couldn't look away could not look away could not look away and i didn't realize how bad the abuse was until i watched that ryan murphy documentary i think he captured the abuse that the boys went through absolutely amazing what he did wrong was and this is how just my opinion what he did wrong was he did not capture the emotion of these boys and the pain of these boys

and that's where he fucked up yeah had he have fucking incorporated that in that docuseries it would have been received a way different way whole different way you and i discussed this i truly feel like he dehumanized them and until you actually watch them as humans on tape you have no idea the emotions and the pain that these boys felt. What those boys went through, dude. Like, I don't think ever making fun or light of abuse is ever okay. And I think that, you know, these boys had the whole world laughing at them. Yeah.

They were portrayed as these snotty little bratty, pompous, you know, boys. Yeah. imagine you know literally well killing your parents and then the entire world just coming at you not knowing all the facts and making fun of you and you know like she said skits on snl being made and stuff like that so do i think ryan murphy um did a great job absolutely yeah but i also think that he slipped up in that one area of just not showing empathy and capturing the boys emotions and pain, which kind of is par for the course for Ryan Murphy. He's kind of like the Tim Burton of. Yes. You know, like horror. Yes.

And I don't think you can incorporate heartfelt moments so much into horror. Right. So I get that like i get you you did the best in your specialty and i by no means feel like it was a bad it was literally i'm obsessed with it i could watch it again yeah but if you want to dissect it yes if you want to dissect it no more please please go watch the actual tapes well go watch the actual tapes but also watch the new documentary that just dropped with the boys in their own words yes and i can understand why eric and lyle are upset because they've worked this hard to like get their shit reappealed and

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march 1990 lyle was arrested by police and eric turns himself in days later after returning from israel so they're just living their normal lives having no idea this mistress is out there 1990, Lyle is arrested by police and Eric turns himself in days later after returning from Israel. So they're just living their normal lives, having no idea this mistress is out there snitching on them. Not really snitching on them. She was trying to snitch on Dr. Ozeal and then was like, oh, yeah, by the way. Yeah. Like they didn't even care. It was so passe.

Oh, it was awful. And by the way, Eric was in Israel for a tennis competition. Yeah. He could have just stayed gone. I mean, you didn't have to come back. Yeah. Like you kind of boy, you had a running start. Yeah.

He only came back for his brother. Truly. They have like such a sweet bond. Yeah. And it's a trauma bond too between those two. Lyle has said that it was a staged arrest for the media circus. They, you know, had called the media to be ready to watch for the SWAT teams. That right there shows me, and I had mentioned this earlier in this podcast,

about the police department. They really were trying to save their asses in this. Oh, absolutely. And the fact that you call media out to witness this, you could have easily probably knocked on the door and just been like, yo, bro, you're arrested. When you find out later on who the judge was, you'll understand why they made this a media circus. Exactly. So it just, to me, the whole thing just screams red flags. But then, you know, Lyle also has come out to say that he was relieved to be arrested. And that

it's like you said, the cortisol levels in this circus that he's relieved to be arrested and that it's like you said the cortisol levels in this circus that he's just portraying this person it was probably like whoa i can kind of take off my mask right now yeah i don't have to pretend to be this person and everyone he surrounded himself in his friends everything like that he had to be someone well and holding in a lie like that yeah and then can you imagine seeing your parents in that state over and over and over again and nightmares like i i just think that that would be super fucking heavy and just you know i couldn't imagine the relief of just being like okay let's fucking go yeah and that's what eric had that's what turned eric to going and confessing to his therapist was the a lot of the dreams yeah you know he was daydreaming he was having dreams

nightmares at night like it consumed his entire life which i'm sure in a way it also did to lyle but lyle didn't portray that right so we're gonna fast forward to three years later july of 1993 is when they go on their first trial so the mendez brothers go on trial in la courtroom um each a separate jury in a trial that was televised on court tv yeah so so i mean that's already a fucking media circus you know these boys have been sitting in jail for three years they reappear and i mean you see the iconic fucking when they walk in the courtroom like that is fucking iconic because these boys were attractive boys that was it they were really like the stereotypical and i'm gonna say yeah they were the hot 90s guys and you know

people wanted to hate them but then there was women who loved them you know as we're seeing with what's happening with certain serial killers now are you know killers now same thing happened with dahmer yeah he was hot you know and again that resurfaced here when they brought out his little docu-series thing it was like it resurfaced of this like craze women had um towards like how hot he was yep so prosecutors whenever they opened up the arguments in the trial was that they killed their parents for financial gain they were looking for a motive and i'm sorry this prosecutor was a cunt bitch i can't stand her i do not like her bro if you watch the documentary the new one that just dropped not the ryan murphy one but the real prosecutor is in this one and she is a fucking turd i don't like her like she's a terrible

fucking human man like like the ending of that when she was talking i was like it's viral on tiktok is it it's viral thank god cancel her please if there's anyone to cancel it's her yeah i think she's retired now but i mean like she's crazy she even went on to say on this documentary like oh yeah so we're just gonna let them out of prison because tiktok and by the way tiktok i'm armed and it's just like i got guns all over this place these people on tiktok work they will have your social security number on the dark web tonight they will be tracking your every move on twitter. Yeah. Like she needs like, I don't piss off the crazies on TikTok. No.

The brother's defense admitted that they did kill their parents, but argued that they acted out of self-defense after years of emotional, psychological, and sexual abuse by their father. So this brings me to a point right here. When they first got arrested, they sat in jail for three years and they stood by the fact that yes we killed our parents and we're just going to take our lumps and go away nobody was going to

talk about the sexual abuse they were forced to talk about the sexual yes what is that? Yep. They were forced to talk about the sexual abuse because Eric and Lyle had been put in the same housing unit. And Lyle used to write letters to Eric. And they had said, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, that the boys tried to escape from jail. And so they had to all of a sudden search their jail cells, right? Lies. Yeah, it was lies. But they searched Eric's cell. And when they searched Eric's cell, they found a letter from Lyle stating like, hey, I love you.

I'm sorry for everything we've been through. You know, but listen, we're not going to talk about what really happened. We're not going to talk about what they did to us. We're not, you know, like this was a heartfelt letter where he went in and was just telling Eric how much he loved him. And like, hey, we're just going to go down in flames and just take our, you know, we're going, we're fucking going to do it. Yeah. Which to me, that's fucking balls dude dude yeah that's straight up gangster yeah absolutely like how are you not gonna talk

about what really fucking happened in your household and once you guys find out what really happened in their household if you don't know already it's mind-blowing that they were willing to go down with these secrets. I cannot imagine. I have full body chills right now thinking back on this because I just could not imagine having so much trauma that you don't even want to talk about the trauma. Well, you don't want to talk about it. And also, it's almost like you're still protecting your family. Exactly. It's like dad would be disappointed if we talked about that.

That's how I like see it. I'm like, bro, what did he do to you? And you know why, Eric? I think I wrote it down later in the notes. But Eric said later on that he had kept the letter because it was the first time Lyle had ever opened up to him about it. And it was special to him. And that just goes to show how sweet eric is like no they're babies like they're okay anyways we'll probably get in trouble for saying

murderers but i just i don't know how can you not want to cradle these boys after you hear this story it's crazy so of course you know with the boys looks with their attitudes, all that stuff, where their parents, who their parents, who their parents were, they become an over the case becomes an overnight sensation. They are like global, global worldwide coverage. This was like our modern day, like Johnny Depp trial that everyone was talking about and everyone was watching. everyone was talking about and everyone was watching yeah no it was crazy so so the jurors were selected the jurors that were selected had read and followed the case through tv and newspapers so they had already preconceived opinions about the boys which how is that even fair like you have such a freaking major case that people have been already following for three three four years at this point have

decided their decisions for sure well that and also it's like that's not fair because you need people who really don't know what's going on to look at it from a fresh you know set of eyes so robert shapiro was originally the boys's attorneys which eric and Lyle have gone on record to say that they feel like Robert Shapiro fucked them over. Yeah. Robert Shapiro is actually the one that talked Eric into coming back from Israel. And when Eric could have just stayed in Israel.

Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know that. I had no idea he's the one that convinced him to come back. I thought his brother convinced him. That's wild. No, Robert.

Well, I'm sure I was a mixture of both. I'm sure. But you know, his brother was arrested. He's not being able to talk to his brother. And then Robert Shapiro probably, you know,

levied that to get him back. Yeah. They definitely feel like Robert Shapiro fucked them over. So after they fired Robert Shapiro, they hired boss ass B Leslielie abra abramson that's my girl i love her that's my girl no i love her and she you can tell man that woman went hard for these boys like she was the mom they always needed like she fucking protected these boys tooth and nail and she's the one who talked the boys into talking

about their sexual abuse because lyle was not having it i think eric was more like okay yeah i'll do it but as long as lyle's okay with it and then lyle also so leslie was eric's attorney and then lyle had um another attorney who i was, I think her name was Jill. If you guys have not seen Leslie, go look at a picture of her. She's got this like permed blonde hair, big, big hair. I'm just going to paint a picture for you. She's skinny. She is chain smoking cigarettes outside the courtroom.

It's just. She's from New York. Like she doesn't take any shit she is such a bad bitch yeah i adore her so lyle's attorney was jill lansing and then eric's attorney was leslie abrams abrams abrams i don't know i have the hardest time with that but um isn't it crazy how the boys hired both women yeah like that just shows like they just want that motherly yes they were fucked over by the dude already and it just goes to prove to them like you know no we're gonna get women yeah their mom was a piece of shit too we're gonna get both of the

parents failed them yeah definitely so um in the case of lyle and Eric Menendez, who murdered their parents in 1989, Shapiro arranged the surrender of Eric in 1990, who at the time of Lyle's arrest was in Israel for a tennis tournament. He later represented Eric during their first arraignment until the defense handed it over to Leslie Abramson, who represented Eric until the brothers conviction. represented eric and tilda brothers uh conviction so moving on from there you know you've got this huge global case you've got these two badass women that are representing the boys you've got handsome boys handsome rich boys that are just driving the world crazy and then you have jurors who know what the fuck is going on yeah this whole case is a mess this whole case is a mess because the next part and i'm gonna let you know why the next part um is so pertinent the judge was the same judge the judge that the boys got was the same judge that had ruled on the rodney king case so because of what happened with the Rodney King verdict,

that judge already felt pressured to prove that the judicial system was upstanding and just. So these boys are literally walking in to just a lion's den. Yes. You know, and for everybody who's familiar with the Rodney King situation, when that judge ruled not guilty, LA on fire literally california was rioting getting burned down like nobody gave a fuck you know like it was fucking straight anarchy out there absolutely and then

here comes these two little white rich boys who killed their parents into the same courtroom of the judge who just had set off the entire fucking rodney king yes how is that fair that that judge should not be able to practice like he should have taken a year off he's like bro okay i'm gonna go i'm gonna go to israel literally like why are you still in the courtroom like it's just crazy to me that part of the i didn't know that part until you had told me the other night. And I was like, no freaking way. Like, it explains so much of, like, how this trial ended up happening. That was crazy. But you want to know what else is a fucking just crazy?

Lyle's toupee. The toupee, man. Toupee or not toupee? That is the question. Oh, my gosh so in the docu-series though on netflix they did a fantastic job portraying this toupee are you talking about um ryan murphy yes yes yeah the toupee took on a life of its own in ryan murphy's docu-series dude it's like he's talking about like he's calling in his jail and he's like i just need the tapes i just need the tape for my toupee and he's got like little latches

oh my god when you find out about the toupee though it's actually the most sad sad tragic it is story i mean this entire story fucking sucks we haven't even gotten into all of it yet we're just literally tip of the iceberg yes that toupee first of all i didn't know it was a toupee i had no idea but then when you look back when they play old court shit you can tell there's a good separation you can tell it's not even blended it's not i was looking at it the other night when i was watching that and like the back you can literally see it like sticking up and i was like that i just thought that was a cowlick literally like nobody knew and then fucking here's eric with just luxurious curly locks how like poor poor uh i all got this shit into the shingle man

um all right so moving forward i just had we had to have a moment of silence for the dupay really we did and i mean now if you guys look at pictures of him, he has just gone ahead and shaved his head. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you. Atta boy.

Thanks. Thanks for just embracing it. Yes. We love it. Cause if he was still wearing the toupee though, I wonder if they get out, if he wears the toupee, if he puts the toupee back on. What do you think? He's, he's, he's, he's a bald, just majestic.

He's rocking it. Just a bald just majestic he's rocking it just a big mr clean majestic unicorn yes all right all right so diving into the boys life stories and this is where it all gets crazy and you get to buckle up everything yeah buckle up jose the father was born into a wealthy family in 1944 in havana cuba to an elite family of doctors and lawyers so i mean jose was used to a certain lifestyle he grew up with money but he ended up losing everything during the revolution and him and his family became refugees and had to flee from cuba and they came from cuba to america to rebuild um but rebuilding at that kind of stature you're kind of already starting a little level up yeah i mean it depends did his parents put money away did they have like a little nest or did they really come here with nothing and have to start from the ground up yeah but you still have skills you know you're going to be able to utilize those in some way.

Yeah. Eric had said that his father had this unstoppable drive that you were either afraid of or pulled in by. I feel like that's me. I feel like I'm just like fucking you either like it or you don't. I understand how it feels to like be a hard worker, you know, and like just want to accomplish it because sometimes I just want to turn it off sometimes i'm just like let's let me just turn off my brain but like

that's not how that works literally i work on my deathbed it's crazy yeah for sure kitty menendez was glamorous good looking and fiery they said she wanted to be in radio theater or have a career so you know here's two people that are pretty driven, that know what they want, and somehow they have crossed paths and decided to make a family together. Jose became a huge successful businessman by his 40s, and he was head of RCA Records and Hertz, as well as managing Menudo, who later on, there is a documentary that's actually on Netflix right now. I think it's Netflix Peacock right now, where the lead singer of Menudo says

that Jose Menendez did something to him too. I can't speak on it. I haven't seen that documentary, but I definitely want to watch it. So, I mean, this is par for the course, and you have to understand, like, there's so much abuse here that has had witnesses, and everything still panned out the way it did. So, from the outside, it was a perfect all-American family. During this court case and trial, Dr. Ozeal takes the stand as well as Judilon, and the minute those two hit the stand it's a fucking circus so the supreme court had subpoenaed dr ozeal's confessions from the boys and it was taking a lot longer than they had planned on it taking um so during this time that's whenever the boys were accused of trying to escape. So that's when they found the letter. And in the letter, so in the 17-page letter that Lyle had written to Eric,

Lyle was telling Eric that revealing the six secrets of the family would be like killing his family all over again. And he didn't want to do that. And Eric was supposed to destroy the letter, but because he didn't't prosecution now had hard evidence of a confession written by lyle so even though they were waiting on dr oziel's tapes they now had what they needed to convict the boys but from the beginning the boys never claimed innocence no they didn't they didn't at all but they still in self-defense yeah but still in court had to prove what type of murder right it was so just so you guys understand they did not come into this being like oh we're innocent we didn't do it the mob still did it no these boys literally yep we did it yes we did it but we did it because yes so this whole trial is based on what type of murder this is.

Yeah. Eric has gone on to record to say, I felt terrible because my brother was expressing his pain and it was so dear to him that I just, I couldn't throw away the letter and in return it helped convict them, but not realizing that it was actually what is going to save them. You know, like I know it's taken 30-something years, but that letter right there is the reason why these boys

are getting so much love and compassion. Yes. Yes, it's their truth. And, you know, I had in my notes here, I just said, could you imagine being accused of killing your parents for money when you're harboring these horrific secrets and you're both still not saying anything as you're being

tried for the murder of your parents like that's just crazy that's just crazy to me i can't believe they kept that in and weren't going to talk about it i know but luckily enough leslie miss abramson was a fucking gangster and she was like she's super smart and she acted quick. She set the boys up with a defense expert to start trying to pull the real story of what had happened out of the boys. So enter in this defense

expert who really needs these boys to open up and talk about what would happen. You would think that in the first session they would just fucking just word vomit. No, they did not. Of course not. They did not. The first session with the defense expert did not go as planned. He couldn't get anything out of Eric because he didn't trust him because of Dr. Ozeal. Yep. So poor little Eric, you know, just has all these little secrets and, you know, just does not want to open up because he's scared and doesn't trust anybody. Every man in his life has let him down. Literally. And then Lyle said that he would have rather have lost the trial than revisit what had happened, which I don't blame him. Yeah, no poor Lyle. You know, like every, a lot of us sympathize with Eric just because he's such a sweet little baby and like

Lyle puts on this tough exterior. But at the same time, it's like, I think I'm a lot like Lyle too. I see the pain in Lyle a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. time, it's like, I think I'm a lot like Lyle too. I see the pain in the aisle. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just when you see these boys cry on the stand, it is fucking heart wrenching. And if you say that's fake,

we have a difference in opinion. Yeah, for sure. Eric wouldn't open up and kept saying how great of a man his father was and wouldn't break. Like, so literally you're sitting in front of a defense expert who's going to save your ass if you just start talking and you're telling him that your dad is a great man like tell me that's

not programming ptsd programming though too because you know jose drilled oh yeah into their heads you know literally he still feared for his life, even though his abuser was gone. Yeah. No, it's just it's so fucking sad. And that right there shows severe trauma. Yes. The fact that people couldn't see that is beyond me. Yeah.

So they started calling family and family doctors in as witnesses because the boys just would not open up. And we're going to play a lot of clips for you. I really think this is a different podcast, um, than what we normally do. So we want you to hear it from these people's own words, um, instead of me quoting them, because I really think that it's more, um, uh, for you to just hear is so important to me because you know me saying it you don't get to hear the emotion that's coming from these people but just to sum it up before we go into all these clips is so they all testified about physical abuse sexual abuse emotion okay chicago yeah it's like a bad cat it's terrible it sounds like bussy

he did that in the pool area the other day and everyone was like i didn't ever known he could bark oh the dude barks loud and deep all right they all testified about physical abuse sexual abuse emotional abuse all witnesses of what these boys had gone through with horrific stories. And yet nobody did anything to ever help those boys until now that their parents were already dead. Which to me, it's like, okay, maybe everybody was scared of Jose and just didn't want to rock the boat. But at the same time, I'm sorry, but if I know my little niece or my little nephew is getting fucking hurt, I'm going to step up and I'll take that kid myself. Fight me for it. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. No, there's no way you don't just yeah in my head i'm like also even if they tried i i don't feel like those boys would have willingly gone yeah yeah true that's a good point too the only person who had anything nice to say about jose menendez was his secretary and that's probably because he was fucking her fucking yeah exactly allegedly allegedly absolutely you don't you do not have this man's back worth shit and if you do he either like owes you money or was dicking you down they couldn't find one character witness to say he was a good a good human that just shows oh gross so starting out with the test of with the the testimonies of the people who came on

there was an aunt that testified that at two years old jose would hang the young boys from a super high bar until they couldn't hang anymore so like imagine like, imagine being two years old, being put up on this bar, and you're just sitting there being hung two years old. You have no muscle. You have no, like, nothing. And when the boys would start crying, he would beat them. He would hit them and tell them, like, why are you crying? Stop crying and I'll let you down.

And then would hit them, do it again, put them back up on the – I might cry during this podcast, guys. No, literally. And this is at two years old, you know? um and then he so he would do that to eric and then he would do that to lyle and lyle wouldn't cry so he would pin the boys against each other so lyle always had to be the tough one you know so he would be like oh eric why can't you be like your brother you know and like just literally just fucking you rate these fucking boys and this is at two and three years old or however far apart they are so um the first cousin who actually has passed away his name is andy cano he went on the stand and he talks about how he found a jar of vaseline in 13 year old eric's

room and we're going to hear that testimony now i believe i was around 11 years old. It's the best I can do. Okay, so if you're 11, then Eric's about 13 1⁄2 to 14? Right. When we went back to his room, I remember seeing a jar of Vaseline. I didn't know what it was used for or what it was then, but I figured it was a type of ointment that you put on scratches and so on. Okay, so did you try to use it for your scratch? I picked it up, and Eric immediately told me to put it back down. Okay, did he say anything else about it?

No, he didn't. He just said, don't touch it. Well, did you explain why you wanted to use it? Yes, I told him I was just going to put it on my scratch. And did he tell you anything about that? Yeah. He said that's not what it's for. He was actually trying to find out if any of these massages were normal. And I, my response to him was that I wouldn't know. I didn't have a father around. My parents were divorced then. father around my parents were divorced then well he told me his father was massaging his dick he used that word yes he did knew from recent talks with eric that he was suicide

and that's what i was worried about i was worrying about him and i remember one time on the airplane he locked himself in the bathroom for about an hour. It seemed to me like an hour. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for him to come out, and I went and knocked because I was very worried about what he might have done in that bathroom. Did you believe at that time that he was having a guilty conscience about killing his parents? I didn't believe anything. I just believed that I was very worried about him. Your cousin was a good friend of yours right yes he was and is so this is just goes to show people knew about this yeah this is

this is just the beginning so and it's a kid that knows about it too which makes me feel bad for all the people he did confess this to because they don't know how to handle that. Yeah. So this is his cousin. And what he's talking about is Eric confessed to him that his dad was massaging his penis and with and with the Vaseline. Yeah, it was in his room. This is being testified in court. You know, Eric's. How did he say 13 right now?

So they don't even know how long this abuse has been going on they just literally knew bits and pieces yeah next up is Lyle and Eric's aunt who is talking about the signs of sexual abuse and she's testifying in front of the courtroom for everybody to hear well I had to go to Kitty and Jose's room because it then got to be very late. It was originally like around 6, 630, and it now was getting on to be 738 o'clock. And I was extremely hungry. It's been a long day. And I knocked on Kitty's door of their room, and Kitty was in the room, but there was no Jose.

And she said that he was down in Eric's room. Did Eric have a room in the same hotel? Yes, he did. If I can remember right, it was like about two to three down in Eric's room. Did Eric have a room in the same hotel? Yes, he did. If I can remember right, it was like about two to three rooms down from their room. So she told you that Jose's in Eric's room. Correct. What happened then? She then said that we had to wait until Jose came out of Eric's room before we could go to dinner.

Did you wait in her room or return to your room? No, I went back to my room. And did you subsequently get information that Jose was now back? What had happened was I had to go there one more time. I went back to her room and said, you know, Kitty, it's really getting very late. Why don't we just go down to eat? And she said, no, no, it'll only be a few more moments. Jose should be coming out of his room.

And how much time before Jose did come out of Eric's room? If I can remember right, it was like around 8.30, a quarter to 9. And what happened then? We then were walking down the hallway and... When you say we... Oh, I'm sorry. It was Kitty, myself, Brian, and Jose, the four of us. And what happened then was we said we would like to go in and see Eric to at least tell him that we thought the game was very well.

We were sorry that he lost. Jose made fun of that, but as we were there in front of the room, he said, well, okay, Eric is in his room, and he will not be coming to dinner with us. So he opened the room. Who opened the room? Jose did. Did he have a key? Yes.

And when he opened the room, we looked in, and it was a short hallway like you would have in a Holiday Inn or something like that. I looked in the room, and it was very dimly lit, and Eric was in bed. How did he look? He looked very sad, and you could tell something was wrong with him. He didn't want to speak to us, and I was going to go over and give him a hug and i was told that i shouldn't do that that eric just didn't want people to hug him so this is an aunt testifying that she's witnessing weird behaviors and apparently you know from a very age, these boys were allowed to be alone with their dad locked on whatever floor he decided to choose. And Kitty, the mother would make sure that nobody

went on the floors and would never go in the rooms to see what Jose was doing with these boys. in the rooms to see what jose was doing with these boys the mom knew of course the mom knew the mom knew the mom is a fucking scallywag it's just disgusting what she's allowed these boys to to have to go through yes there's just so much it's just it's just really really terrible um so one of the boy's cousins testified that he found a container of human feces under lyle's bed lyle explained to him that he would be too scared to go to the bathroom sometimes when he was being punished he wouldn't be allowed to leave his room to go he also wet the bed until his very late teen years which is a very very big sign of abuse huge sign of abuse with the bedwetting. Eric was molested and raped from around the ages of six years old all the way up until he was 18 by Jose. His family witnessed how he became extremely distressed at any meal that he ate when he couldn't eat lemon or ketchup with it.

He put lemon and ketchup on his food as he found it diminished the taste of his father's semen that he would be made to swallow. This makes me want to cry. Is that not fucking insane? It makes me want to cry because the fact that these boys have had to live an entire life behind bars but had already lived in their own personal hell is beyond me. It's, it's disgusting. I mean,

so Lyle was also molested from the time he was six until I believe 14. So Jose started molesting both of the boys around six years old. For some reason it stopped with Lyle. And I think it's because Lyle put up a fight. Yeah. I think he would be scared that Lyle would say something Eric was so much more of like someone he could dominate and and Lyle was just so hard-headed that if he continued to do that I bet you Lyle would have said something yeah absolutely family members testified that when

Jose was with one or both of the boys in the bedroom or in the shower with them you were not under any circumstances allowed on the same floor of the house with them you weren't allowed to check what was going on and no one was allowed to see the boys straight after one of the family members tried to tell the boy's mother Kitty what was going on and it turns out she knew the entire time, and Kitty called her a liar. This woman, Kitty, is just a fucking nightmare. Let's talk about Kitty really quick, because there is a bunch of things that I would like to say about Kitty that I have. Kitty literally let these boys just get molested because she was literally she hated her sons she has gone on record um to therapists and said she feels like her sons ruined her life um she hated being a mother

she didn't like it she was physically and sexually abusive with the boys also. And here's a couple of facts about Kitty. So Kitty didn't just enable what was happening to her sons, but she participated in their abuse, both physically and sexually. She had Lyle sleep in the same bed as her and had him touch her until he was the age of 13. What the fuck? And sometimes further than that age her own son touching her inappropriately anywhere and lyle while recounting the events in trial testified she loved it that is so sick that

like how do you not you got one parent that's a fucking complete just say satanist like just disgusting devil yes but then you've got the wife who's a devil too like how does that work that you find two pieces of shit that just fucking fall in love with each other i mean they are together because they're the same human oh it is disgusting that anyone anyone at all would do anything involving a child, let alone your own child. Yeah. On several accounts, she told people, most notably her therapist, she hated her children. They ruined her life, happiness and her marriage. She would lock them in cupboards to do their homework because they were terrible in school due to their abuse and wouldn't give

them food or water for hours the abuse just keeps getting worse and worse i know we're like just at the beginning of this and like if you guys by the end of this don't understand like why we feel the way we feel it's crazy to me lyle also testified that his mother would beat him kick him and drag him around by his hair considering he was already losing his hair due to immense stress at such a young age so that is why Lyle had to wear a toupee because of all the abuse that was going on in the house it was stressing him out that even in high school he was in ninth grade losing his hair because he was so stressed out because he was internalizing so much eric testified that his mother sexually violated him and would often walk around the house naked or semi-naked in his presence when jose or lyle wasn't around

it's fucking gross man it's so disgusting like you're getting raped by your father and then your mom's doing weird shit too i don't like it not only did they bring forward family members who are like hey this is what we have personally witnessed in all of this um we also had a doctor testify that seven-year-old eric had a medical record of sa so this had already been looked into and no one helped him yeah there was a doctor that literally said the back of was eric's throat or lyle eric's yeah the back of eric's throat was injured so badly that it could have only been done by sexual abuse like why did nobody step in right then and take those fucking kids and this doctor went on trial for these boys and admitted this and showed like proof like that is proof

awful jose ruled with an iron fist he literally kept that house so scared that even one time he the family dog he cut the dog's head off and put the dog's head in a freezer and let Lyle and Eric see this dead dog's head in their freezer every day to just fucking scare them and intimidate them and to teach them a lesson because we talk about this like these boys being still so willing to protect their dad's honor imagine having your life threatened that much that you are literally afraid to live and like that i don't know that just these boys literally became stuck no they they were literally just beaten little puppies yes and you know you you raise a child in the jungle they're gonna act like a monkey right yes like these kids never had childhoods they literally

were getting molested and raped by age six and that's all they knew it got to the point where eric liked it yes because he didn't know that it was wrong yes and he testifies that and you guys will hear that from his own mouth you know like it's fucking disgusting if you literally birth a child and tell it that the sky is purple they're gonna believe you they are going to until the day they die probably tell everyone around them no that sky is purple you guys are the crazy ones you guys think it it's blue. I know it's purple. Yeah. My mom and dad told me so. Yeah.

When they did the search of the house, Jose would take naked photos of both of them and would crop their faces out. So there would only be pictures of them from the neck down. And he kept those photos in their home. And the mom's kitty's handwriting was found on the front of the envelope that and he kept those photos in their home and the mom's kitty's handwriting was found on the front of the envelope that they were kept in it's so bad it's just so bad like all of it is just so fucking disgusting dude so here's the doctor testifying um about eric having medical record of sexual abuse? Dr. English, have you had access to certain medical records of Eric Menendez?

Yes. Did you see any indication in Eric Menendez's medical records of an injury to his throat area? Yes. an injury to his throat area. Yes. The document indicates that there was an injury to the throat of Eric Menendez sometime in 1977. Yes.

The direct quote is, posterior pharynx, uvula, and soft palate. The report of injury in that medical record, could that be caused by child sex in your opinion? Yes. Do you have any opinion as to what type of child sex s**t, in your opinion? Yes. Do you have any opinions as to what type of child's s**t could have resulted in that particular complaint? Oral copulation. That's a doctor on the stand confirming that this little boy has an injury from a penis in the back of his throat.

Yes. No one thinks to even bat an eye at that? It's just, it's so frustrating this entire case is beyond fucking frustrating because nobody helped these boys the judicial system failed him his family failed them everybody failed these boys and when we get to the the jury and how like this trial goes on it makes me sick to my stomach to see how they voted within the trial and like you were literally given all of this evidence there's more we're like we're still getting into it you guys there's so much and like we're not even going to be able to cover how much evidence like if you like if you have not already go down this fucking wormhole yes please do crazy please do so next we're going to hear from eric talking

about being molested by his father i hid from him i uh i put cinnamon in uh his drinks and his coffee and his tea. Why did you put cinnamon in his drinks? Well, at the time, I was in seventh grade and I had a group of kids, friends of mine that were really involved. They weren't involved, but they talked a lot about sex and it made me very uncomfortable. So I would sort of shy away and just listen. What did you hear that led to putting cinnamon in your father's drinks if anything I heard that it made it taste better it made what taste better I assume and so you did it so it

would taste better yes now was it at some point after you were 11 years old that you developed a rather peculiar eating habit yes but did you think it was peculiar no okay that's my work yes what did you do I I used a lot of lemon in my food and what do you mean by used a lot of lemon in my food. And what do you mean by used a lot of lemon? What are we talking about here? Well, in essence, I would put the lemon in the bowl first and then put whatever I was going to put in the bowl, like fish or rice or whatever.

Sometimes I'd just pour the lemon over the food if it was already on the plate. But otherwise, I would just dry my food in lemon. All of your food? Soup, meat, chicken, the fish, the rice, pretty much everything. So would you consume a large quantity of lemon every week? Every day. quantity of lemon every week? Every day. And when you're eating all this lemon, did you notice it had any effect on your sense of taste? Yes. What would happen? I wouldn't taste as much.

You wouldn't taste as much of your food? I did it for a specific purpose, but it didn't seem to work all that well. What was the purpose for which you were doing it? So that I wouldn't have to taste my dad's... Okay. Let me ask you something. Where did the lemon come from? Did you go and buy it for yourself? Where the idea come from?

No, no. Where did the actual lemon that you're putting on everything come from? Oh, from my mother. And would your mother, did she ever run out of lemon? Yes. And would she be concerned about that? Yes. So did she make it a point of trying to always keep you supplied with lemon? She kept stocks of lemon. Did your mother ever ask you why you were drowning all of your food in lemon? No, it was a big joke in the family, in the relatives and so on, but no one ever asked me why. She never asked you why? No.

Overall. Oh, Lord. It's terrible. Like, it's really just terrible what these boys have gone through i just couldn't imagine knowing that my sons are literally drowning their food and lemon because they don't want to swallow my husband's cum you know she knew oh she absolutely knew there's nothing in my mind that would ever tell me that she didn't know exactly what was going on. Here's Lyle talking about the abuse and his words. My mother was mostly the one that

would explode about the bedwetting or punish me about the bedwetting. Sometimes she would rub my face in the sheets. She'd refuse to change the sheets. I'd sleep on the floor. Until how old? change the sheets. I'd sleep on the floor. Until how old? 14. Say you're sissy like your brother. He'd just be totally disgusted. Didn't want to talk to me. Sometimes we'd skip practices if I was, if my mom had said that I went like that. I would get beaten for it. Were you ever taken to a doctor? No. I was very embarrassed and I believed that it was a big flaw and I was trying desperately to not do it.

We were in the kitchen one morning, and he started getting, Lyle started getting yelled at by Jose and saying he was a sissy and a baby because he had wet his bed. And he started being called, they were calling him names and getting mad at him. That's all I know, I left. Why'd you leave? Why stay? I went downstairs to my room. What did Lyle look like?

Scared. How old were you when you started noticing that you were losing some hair? Like 14. And did some people tease you about it? Yes. And who is it that teased you about it? Mostly tennis coaches. Occasionally someone at school would say something about it.

I was losing very little hair but still was disturbing to me did you get a hairpiece then yes and are you wearing it today yes so that was lyle talking about the abuse and then they put in another family member who had witnessed the abuse also i mean like this we're talking like hours and hours and hours of testimony and people and family members who literally are coming forward saying, yes, these boys are not lying. Like, these are all situations that have happened. So the courts had all of this.

Confessions of them from them. You had doctors. you had relatives you had everyone you could possibly imagine therapists and still these somehow jurors are looking at it with their preconceived notions and just making these decisions based off of what how they felt personally. It's just crazy. Kitty actually went on record. To her therapist. As saying that she was hiding.

Sick and dark family secrets. Like this is the mother. Saying this to therapists. And still nobody helped them. Kitty ripped off Lyle's hairpiece. In front of Eric. Who didn't even know that he had one he had it to cover his the fact that his hair had been falling out so like this family thrived on

humiliation and making these boys just breaking them down making them feel bad like eric didn't even know that lyle was losing his hair and kitty rips it off in front of Eric to just humiliate and embarrass. They treated them like dogs. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, fuck. I feel like they're treating, people treat dogs better than fucking these children, you know? They treated them like these kids didn't have emotions. We're going to play one more thing of Eric talking about the abuse on Stan.

And if you want to keep deep diving, you are more than welcome to. There's just so, there's so little time and so much this is in that new series that just dropped all of it so if you guys want to watch the actual tapes of the courtroom yeah they just put all of it on netflix i highly highly highly recommend that you go watch that yeah absolutely so this will be the last one she would say say, what are you, gay? Or are you not man enough for her? Are you just not a man enough person to be with her? Is this what your problem is?

She would really get down on me. So she gave you the impression that she questioned whether or not you were gay? Yes. Mr. Menendez, did you ever question in your questioned whether or not you were gay? Yes. Mr. Menendez, did you ever question in your mind whether or not you were gay? Yes. And why was that, if you know? It's because I didn't understand what was happening with my father.

And what do you mean you didn't understand it? In California, I didn't understand why it didn't hurt so much anymore. And I didn't understand how... I just felt like I was having more friends because I had a car and I was able to play tennis with them, and I was a little bit more independent, and I felt like I was supposed to be stronger, and I would still be doing this with Dad,

and I wouldn't scream at him or fight back with him because I was afraid but I I didn't I still thought I should have and I would still be able to have an orgasm okay so those things those factors made you wonder if in fact maybe you were gay maybe that's why this is happening maybe that's why I don't resist maybe that's why I don't resist. Maybe that's why it doesn't hurt. Is that what you mean? Yes. I didn't understand. And did these concerns about whether or not you were gay, did this bother you?

Yeah, it was on my mind a lot. It bothered me. Did you think it was wrong for somebody to be gay, or was it just that you didn't know what you were? No, I didn't think I was wrong to think I was, uh... You didn't understand my question. Do you think it was wrong for people to be gay? No. So, what was it?

It was just that I was confused, and, uh, it was difficult for me. It was just that I was confused and it was difficult for me. My mom made it seem like it was worse than death to be gay. And I didn't think I was. I just didn't know. I really didn't understand. Did you like girls? Yes. Were you attracted to girls?

Yes. And eventually, did you have intimate you like girls? Yes. Were you attracted to girls? Yes. And eventually did you have intimate relationships with girls? Yes. You said your mom made it sound like the worst thing in the world. Did your father make gay jokes? Yes. Did your father call you a particular name associated, a negative name for gay people?

Yeah, he called me a faggot. Did he call you that a lot? Yeah, he either called me a fag or a faggot. He used both of them. He hated gay people. And he absolutely refused to accept what was happening between us. He just said that it wasn't any of that.

He hated that. Without naming him, was there a relative on your mother's side of the family that was perceived by the family as being gay? He was gay. Okay. Well, we didn't know that. We just felt that he was. And how did your father talk about or treat that particular individual? He ridiculed him, made fun of him, talked a lot behind his back.

He ridiculed and made fun of him, talked a lot behind his back, would say things like, you don't want to be, I don't want to say his name, you don't want to be like this person. He would, one time I remember Lyle bought the same color and basically the same type of shoe as this person was wearing. And he made fun of Lyle for the longest time for it. For getting the same kind of shoes as the relative. Yes. Now what did you think when your father who is having sex with you is taunting you with being gay? I was real confused.

I didn't think that what Dad and I was doing was a gay thing. I thought it was just what Dad and I was doing. But it made me real confused because it didn't hurt like I thought it should anymore. And so I didn't understand. When your father called you faggot, did you ever answer him back in your head? Yes. What did you say? I said to him, what the hell are you?

So this poor kid doesn't even know if he's gay or not because he's been getting molested so much by his father since he was six years old. or not because he's been getting molested so much by his father since he was six years old yeah this in all of this you guys they not only were forced to do ungodly things to their father their father was doing ungodly things to them and this included you know touching them down there and also forcing them to shove things and being sodomized and it was with multiple different things so not only was they both of them were receiving such trauma from their father forcing them to put things in there forcing them to do things to them that bio then went on to do the same thing to eric which he testifies about that on the stand and he talks about it and there's so much where lyle holds it together but the minute he talks

about what he did to his brother he breaks down crying and is and says very audibly i'm so sorry and eric said that was the first time that his brother ever apologized to him you can also see in that video eric just like biting onto his knuckle just with all his might and is so sad to watch because you can watch the true pain and both of them come out um that to me was like the breaking point of the trial it truly to me he they both showed how human they were yeah i mean these boys really fucking bared their souls dude like they were just like look that we fucked up yeah majorly but this is why we fucked up eric has gone on to say in an interview that he misses his mother and wishes that he would not have murdered her he craves that affection and love that he wanted from his mother so badly.

And he still wishes he could sit down with her and have a conversation. Wow. Even after all the abuse that she's put him through, he still just wants his mommy. They're lost little babies. Both of them never received any type of love from anyone. They don't know what love is like. They have no idea what love is like.

They don't. At all. And it's so sad. No, it's so, so sad. And Eric also says that it's more difficult with his father. Lyle also testified emotionally that the sexual abuse started at six years old. As Lyle testified, Eric starts bawling. Lyle said he told his mother about the abuse,

and her reply was, he has to punish you when you do bad things. I hope fucking Kitty Menendez is rotting in hell. Absolutely. You are justifying the actions of your sick, monstrous husband. Get out of here. You're fucking disgusting, lady. You're just as awful as he is. No, you're disgusting.

He then goes on to talk about how he started abusing eric because of what was being done to him when when lyle reveals this moment too if you guys go watch the clip the judge's face during this like i don't know how the judge wasn't moved to tears because his face was just like like he could not soak in all of the shit that these boys had been through you know anyways so when lyle did apologize to eric on the stand the entire courthouse was crying too yeah you can't i literally you could hear you could hear a pin drop yes like i got so emotional at that point and remember this is all televised yeah so the world is watching this happen to these boys so eric had also tried to tell jose to stop you know molesting him and jose threatened eric

with a knife and told him that he would kill him if he told anybody or if the sex between them stopped eric also tried to leave and go to college. He was like, yeah, this is my out. I'm going to finally get to go to Stanford. I'm going to be away from my dad. And Jose said, absolutely not. You're going to go to UCLA and you're going to live in this house because like, I believe like Jose was like in love with Eric. Yeah. And that probably explains why the abuse went on for so long again that goes back to what i said earlier he felt like he had control over eric while years before he had sort of lost control of lyle yes so you guys need to keep in mind that the deaths happened when eric was 18 and

the reason why all these the reason why these murders happened was because Lyle had no idea that Eric was still being molested. Yes. Lyle thought that it had stopped just like it had stopped for him. And this is a family that clearly has zero communication with each other. And Lyle found out that it was happening. And when he found out that it was happening, he went to his dad and confronted his dad and said, if you don't stop, I'm going to go to the police. And Jose looked at him and said, you listen to me. What I do with my son is none of your business.

And so Lyle went to Kitty and was like, hey, do you know that this is still fucking going on? And Kitty goes, what do you think? I'm stupid. Like these boys had nobody to fucking protect them bro nobody nobody nobody would help them so lyle testified that they killed their parents because the dad would not stop molesting eric and they feared that the father would try to kill them because they had confronted them yes confronted him they say that they went and got these guns out of protection right because they knew at any point jose was just going to lose i

mean the dude cut a dog's head off and put it in a fucking fridge how they knife to his son's neck literally like he's put stuff inside of them of course they're gonna fear for their lives yeah like they're totally scared of them and i what had sealed the deal was kitty and jose invited eric and them out onto a yacht and they couldn't understand like why they were being forced to go out on this yacht and this entire trip they thought that they were going to be killed they are so up in the mines that they have totally convinced themselves and they could maybe not be wrong right these two could have hated their children their whole lives that they truly could have been planning we don't know to like maybe off them in an accident on the boat yeah nobody actually knows here it is in

their own words nothing about that trip made sense And in context with everything else that was going on crisis that was happening in the family. We shouldn't have been out there Well, the story was that mr. Menendez had a big deal that had gone through and he was gonna go shark fishing There was no fishing at all that I remember now I mean that was the whole reason we were there. But there wasn't many fishing going on. So it was like there was this pretense. We were there for one reason, but we were there really for a whole other reason.

Basically, the deckhand and I did everything. None of the four came back. They really kind of acted like they didn't want to have any part of it. The family, they were estranged almost the whole time it was a weird vibe just all around as they came to the boat and we set sail off the dock the boys moved up to the bow of the boat and the parents basically went down inside the boat into the back remember a lot of, and the waves would crash over the boat, and the water was cold.

We actually took a wake over the bow, and it got the boys soaked. And the boys just sat there. They didn't bother going back to get a towel or anything to go warm up with, and they sat out there in the cold breeze, basically, almost, you know, the whole trip. My mom was upset that there were more people on the boat than she anticipated. I guess she had only expected the boat captain to be there.

And I remember thinking, why should she care? The idea of being alone on the ocean with nobody around, I was nervous and paranoid for a good reason. To this day, I wonder what was supposed to happen that night. The boat ride just seemed endless. And I remember just being up there afraid. And so I just huddled up in front of the boat. My brother had a lot of questions.

We talked about everything that had been happening, why I had gone through this and not told him. I think Lyle felt really horrible that he had suspected that this was happening because it had happened to him. And I was trying to convince Lyle that, you know, there was nothing he could have done. That this wasn't his fault. Speculation.

They wanted to kill them. Yeah, I think they definitely had bad intentions for sure. Absolutely. And this goes back to, I think he feared Lyle. Yeah. I think the dad began to fear Lyle. And I believe that the dad knew to fear lyle and i believe that because lyle's a grown man at this time you can beat the shit out of him yes and i know that

there was enough evidence that he truly believed that he would his whole reputation everything he had would be lost if lyle was to come forward also during trial they submitted um an essay that eric had written at 14 about somebody who rapes children and they still overlooked that i mean like there's just the evidence is just crazy it's really sad that moving forward with this case and everything after all of the evidence that anyone could think any different of both of these boys even for them to be like oh they were acting oh they were this the evidence is there how could you ever assume that someone's cry had crocodile tears that was another thing you saw a lot of people kept saying oh the boys have crocodile tears and i'm like yeah maybe they already cried

out all their tears from like the lifelong hell that they just lived. I don't think they were crocodile tears. And when it finally broke, I think the breaking point to me was him saying sorry. Those were, like, the truest emotions I'd ever seen out of both of them. No, all of it. There was no crocodile tears. You could definitely see these boys were in such pain, dude. Like, just so sad.

see these boys were in such pain dude like just so sad so um you guys just heard him talk about the fishing trip and how that scared the shit out of them which is that's what prompted them to go by the shotguns to protect themselves because if jose came in the room lyle said he was going to blow jose's head off yeah if he tried to hurt him so the night of the murders jose came home and told eric to go upstairs and wait for him and they thought that they were going to be killed because in the bedroom yeah because jose came in he was in a mood told eric to go upstairs and lyle just snapped he literally snapped and freaked out he's already stressed out because his, he just found out his dad's still molesting his brother. You know, Jose told him to fucking go fuck himself.

And then they took him out on this boat. I think Lyle just fucking snapped. He ran upstairs to Eric's room and said, this is it. We're going to do it right now. And Eric was ready. Eric went and grabbed his gun, too. And then they went downstairs and just blew their parents away, dude. Yeah.

And, you know know after learning everything that has happened with these boys i don't fucking blame them i don't blame them at all yeah i don't blame them at all i would do the same damn thing so after all that after the families the doctors the letters everybody corroborating every bit of evidence that these boys have said and poured their hearts out. The jury is deadlocked and it's declared a mistrial. Now, this is what pisses me. This pisses me off more than anything. I learned in researching this that it was split down the middle that when they asked if, you know, was it this or it was split down the middle that when they asked if you know was it this or it was that all of the men in the room rose their freaking hands that makes and and they said maybe

like one woman or something the rest were all women who were like absolutely not yeah the fact that those men in that room could not heartless believe that a man could do this to another man goes to show how heartless it was they were saying abuse isn't an excuse to kill to kill what let me stick stuff off all of your butts yeah and then let's talk about it in 10 years 10 years, 12 years. Like, that and fucking saw your dog's head off on top of getting your ass beat, on top of getting your face rubbed in urine. Like, these boys lived in a fucking house of horrors. Yes.

Yeah. And you're going to say that that's not an excuse? Yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah. And then all the women, the reason this became a mistrial is because they truly sat there and argued and argued this because the women believed that these boys did not deserve this. Yeah. So it goes to mistrial.

And they deliberated for what, 30 days? No. Was it 30? I thought it was five. No. Oh, was it 30 days? I'm pretty sure. We're going to fact check this.

We'll fact check it. Pretty sure it was like a month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they were deadlocked, mistrial. And then now we move on to the second trial. And this is where the boys get literally, I don't want to use the terminology, fucked. They get fucked.

Literally. You gotta use it. There's no other word that you can use. Yes. fucked literally there's no other word that you can use like they literally got fucked because the oj simpson trial oj during all of this the boys get the mistrial and then right after that fucking oj goes on that chase so he's in the in this chase he's in the media it's a media circus the boys have been forgotten about whatever if i can oh sorry it's okay are you all right i'm fine so um the second trial begins eight days after the oj simpson trial

the boys never stood a chance no literally in both cases in both cases because oj had just gotten acquitted and the world was pissed off the world was in divide at this point yeah well i mean but they were really pissed off there was nobody really believed oj didn't do it no exactly and like i feel like whoever got this Whoever got this case knew it was going to be just as popular as the OJ case, if not more. Well, that's where they got fucked also, is the judge ruled that the abuse excuse would not be allowed in this trial because the boys weren't women. So battered women syndrome couldn't be used as an excuse so none of the abuse none of the testimonies from the families none of anything that was submitted in the last trial all of it nothing could be submitted into this trial out completely out and no cameras and the jury that they chose had just witnessed and gone through the previous trial

so they already know everything it's crazy to me i just i mean so mad literally so they're they decided to not make it a media circus the boys couldn't submit everything that was stacked against them and they went in and it was literally october 1995 a retrial of the brothers begins with one jury this time around much of the defense evidence about sexual abuse is excluded march 1996 the jury convicts both brothers of first degree murder 12 to 0 12 to 0 you can't tell me that if they knew everything that was going on like in that household that there wasn't there wasn't one person with a fucking heart not one person did they choose all 12 men like yeah like get out of here it's just crazy and then july of 1996 the brothers are sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole

so that my friends is the trial is how the boys got convicted how they are where they are today and why they've served what 34 to 38 years yes yeah in prison and so now you know may of 2023 the peacock docuseries menendez and menudo boys betrayed a former member of the boy band menudo said in a sworn affidavit that he was raped by jose menendez when he was about 14 but like at least he's coming out now and that helps the boys tremendously it does and i feel like because of all of you guys deep diving into this, like we have, they are being seen in such a different light. Yes. And it's fine if you don't agree with us. All opinions are welcome. But yeah, this is how we feel about this. If I was them, I probably would have done it, too.

them i probably would have done it too so since in lieu of all the light that's being shown on them the attorneys for the menendez brother file a habeas petition asking the court to reconsider the conviction and sentence in light of new evidence from the menudo band member and from a letter eric wrote about the abuse prior to the killings The attorney asked that the court either vacate the brothers' conviction and sentence or permit discovery and an evidentiary hearing in which they can provide proof, the document says. So, during this time, that's when Monsters, September 2024, Netflix releases the true crime,

um, drama monsters, Lyle and Eric Menendez story, a nine episode series co-created by Ryan Murphy about the killings. The show is really more interested in talking about how monsters are made as opposed to born. Murphy said, which he's not lying.

No, these boys were made. They had to be monsters they aren't monsters but they had to be monsters because they're not monsters they just did monstrous things yes you know and i truly try to have that opinion about anybody who has hurt somebody but then when you have facts like this about a case you can see that these boys really aren't monsters these boys only got six years yeah before being s.a. and i'm sure they were still being abused they were getting hung two yeah at two years old they were already getting abused yeah so they've already been dealing with physical abuse and all that these boys didn't stand a chance ever they never

had a year of life yeah for sure i feel like the most these boys have been able to live is in prison yeah their life literally started the day they murdered their parents yeah and in a statement released by eric um talking about the ryan murphy uh netflix docuseries he pretty much states what we had said earlier he said he said um these horrible and blatant lies are taking us back to an era when the prosecution built a narrative on a belief system that males were not sexually abused and that males experienced rape trauma differently than women those awful lies have been disrupted and exposed by countless brave victims over the last two decades who have broken through their personal shame

and bravely spoken out. So now Murphy shapes his horrible narrative through vile and appalling character portrayals of Lyle and I and disheartening slander. So, you know, they don't agree with it because Murphy did not show the empathy that he should have and we talked about that earlier yeah most definitely not saying he did a bad job on it monsters is a fantastic series but the main main part of all of this

was that he left out the humanization of those boys right absolutely and now the good news october 5th 2024 la county district attorney tells cnn jim acosta that he increasingly became concerned that it was critical that we reviewed the new evidence put forth by the defense he noted that times had changed regarding how the public and the courts treat victims of sexual abuse. He said, and I quote, there is no question that our sensitivity to sexual assault is much more significant today. It has been clearly established that both men and women can be sexually assaulted or boys and girls. I think 35 years ago, cultural norms were a little different.

There is no question that a jury today would look at this case probably very differently than a jury did 35 years ago. He also notes that the shows and films about the case have had an impact. But for the documentary, quite frankly, we probably would not be talking at this point, he said. We may be talking later, but that certainty has increased in the attention by the public. And that's why we're being very public about where we are. So a hearing on the Menendez brothers petition is set for November 29th, baby. Yes, we get to watch this unfold. Do you know that the world is going?

I got goosebumps. The world is going to celebrate when those boys walk out of jail absolutely can we also talk about these boys have become completely different humans oh so different i want a painting can we talk about yeah which one paints lyle or eric i forget one of them paints like freaking picasso one of them dang i don't remember who it was i think it's eric eric and lyle got all the like scholarship yes he went on to being like a representative in like so many different aspects and making a difference in other people's lives so first off i do want to paint i want to paint eric menendez i would like a painting, please. Eric Menendez is the modern day Bob Ross.

Literally. And he paints so good. It's crazy. You can just tell he puts his whole entire life, his soul into it. And they even said they never even knew that he could draw. And how freeing is that that you found something so beautiful and being able to let your emotions out in such a beautiful way. There's been rappers that have gone on and interviews lately that have been

locked up with Eric and Lyle. And they said that they moved like G's in there. And like, if it wasn't for them, that they literally would not be who they are today because they were such good examples for them. My goodness, which they are together now.

They are. And the boys were reunited. They did spend what? 20 years apart. 20 something years. Yeah. A little over 20 years they did spend a part in two separate prisons but here in after that letter was found they split

them up did not tell the boys that they were getting split up which was heartbreaking um walters interview and after that took them and separated them in two different um vans and they didn't know why until they showed up at two different prisons. So sad, but they are reunited. And they said that they are so happy to be in one another's lives again. I feel like the boys have served their time. I feel like they've done a life sentence.

35 years, 38 years, that's a life sentence. And I think that let them prove themselves that they can be upstanding citizens and that they can get out, be freemen and fucking change the world. Yes. And change the world. Be advocates for sexual abuse.

Absolutely. You know, show people that, hey, you can fucking get raped, beaten, abused, locked up, get out and still be something. They are going to make a difference in this world. I think they're icons. I do. I can get you guys will probably get mad at me for saying that but they literally have been in the limelight since fucking 1990 and they've done nothing but progress yeah they've never regressed they're not like fucking wade wilson they're not like wade wilson out here talking about on the phone to fucking all these bitches trying to scam people out of money like these men actually changes their fucking lives yes that's iconic out there changing other people's what they did was

wrong absolutely but they learned from it and they did it because they were fucking self-defense not thinking in their right minds dude i really feel i feel like it was self-defense i feel like they split you know like it's like one of those splits where you've just been abused for so long that you just fucking crack dude yeah your fight or flight is literally just raging yeah well i can't wait to see these boys get released i'm so excited i'm just putting it in the air that's why i keep saying it but how long was that podcast time eh almost two hours yay so we just did two hours of eric and lyle and there's and there's so much more that you guys can dig like we didn't even everything we've discussed like i said we did not even touch the tip of the iceberg with all the testimony and stuff that's online but

if you can really watch those tapes man it will change your mind it will fucking pull at your heartstrings and you know i'm just happy that we are able to use our platform to bring light to these boys too so like i said eric and lyle you're always invited on the podcast you got anything else to say that's all all right guys thanks for tuning in and we will see you guys next week. Bye.