Dumb Blonde - RaMona Rizzo: Mafia Princess

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

The Mob Wives March continues with the beautiful and feisty RaMona Rizzo, who sets the record straight about her legendary grandfather, Lefty Guns Ruggerio. RaMona talks about discovering the truth of her grandfather's life through Joe Pistone's book and confronting the differences between reality and Hollywood's portrayal in Donnie Brasco as well. She shares her story of meeting Al Pacino on set and how she's learned to rise above other family secrets, drama, and betrayal. RaMona gets into her path to Mob Wives and her excitement for her company, Spiritual Slinger.Watch Full Episodes & More:www.dumbblondeunrated.comRaMona; IG | Spiritual SlingerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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scenes, photo shoots and we're dropping a whole bunch of surprising stuff this year so if you guys don't want to miss out and you want to be the first to know go over to our patreon www.dumbblondunrated.com love you is this thing on bonnie who used to be a former sex worker and now hosts the podcast dumb blonde most little girls grow up wanting to be doctors and lawyers and shit. And I was like, I want to be super hot, make a lot of fucking money and be a rock star's wife. That was my goal as a child. And here we are.

What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I have a true, I guess we could call you a mafia princess. Some degree. Miss Ramona Rizzo, how you doing, baby? I'm doing great. Honestly, I'm so happy to be here. I kind of manifest this in my own brain to be here with you because everything that you've

done, like I'm going to give you your flowers. You know, I'm not like a little groupie, like a fan groupie, but the things that I've said about Bunny is like, she says it how it is, what she's been through, but also you're very, very intelligent, which more people need to know. Like take away all the aesthetic of the makeup, the clothes, like you say some deep shit. I'm like this bitch, like you would really think that you had like the best education. You're very educated. I give it to you, girl.

Girl, you want to make out? I need you to just come and do my intros all the time. That was amazing. I give it to you, girl. Girl, you want to make out? I need you to just come and do my intros all the time. That was amazing. I appreciate you. And you know, it's, I always tell everybody, uh, street smarts, Trump's book smarts. And I learned everything that I've learned through life lessons and living on the street. So I appreciate that. So there's so much to dive into with you. I just had, um, you know, one of the other mob wives who you are very close with. That is your cousin, right? Well, we're not blood, but we knew each other before we were actually born.

Our parents were pregnant together. So we grew up the minute we came out like with each other. Okay. And that's Karen Gravano. So I just had her on the podcast and I told her the same thing. Like, you know, when this whole mob wife aesthetic thing came online, I was like, this is the perfect opportunity to show people that this is not just an aesthetic, that this is a real lifestyle that has hurt people, that has affected people, that has given you amazing memories also in the same token. And your story

is pretty crazy. I felt so bad for you watching some things and we're going to get into it, but who was your grandfather? My grandfather was lefty guns, Rogerio and the movie Donnie Brasco was based on him basically. Yeah. So let's go back to that. So where did you grow up? I was born in the lower East side of Manhattan. And that's where the show, like the movie was featured there. Right. And so Lefty Guns was part of the Bonanno crime. Look at you. You're Italian.

Yeah. Listen, I did some research, OK? Saying it properly. I'm telling you. So he was part of the Bonanno crime family. And you were the first granddaughter. Yes. Growing up, what was your relationship with your grandfather like?

We were so, so close. Like I was, you know, when you see like somebody's your grandfather's princess, that's who I was. And we had a very, very close relationship. I had another grandfather who was in the lifestyle, but I don't know. Maybe a lot of times people say you're always closer to your mom's parents opposed to your dad's. So I was much closer to him. He was a very warm person. So I don't know what he was doing behind closed doors.

And when he left to me, he was so affectionate. He was warm. He made a big fuss, total gentleman. And if he was like, you know, I wish he was here today. He, he would fuss over you. Like he would do it on you. Like he was very, very big on manners. I love that. Anytime I hear you talk about your grandfather do it on you. Like he was very, very big on manners. I love that.

Anytime I hear you talk about your grandfather, it's always like the sweetest memories. That's what I knew. Like what an, what an honor though, to him to have a granddaughter who just like pat him on a pedestal. Well, according to the few,

you know, if I ever get bored a couple of times and I'll just like read some of the comments, like say if I do an interview like this or just in general, like he was a murderer. How do you sit there and justify your grandfather? I'm like, dude, this who he was to me. We're not talking about Charles Manson. We're talking about somebody that was in an organization that everybody chose to be in. Right. It wasn't like how, say, Charles Manson got innocent people or, you know, the serial

killers like people want to just sit there and say murder, murderer. He was alleged. He never got convicted of that. You know, they said whatever they said, the number was quite high, but was it true? Don't know. Not my business to know. Right. And I'll never have proof if it was right. And I think that's actually, um, a profound point is because, you know, it's so easy for people on the outside to be like, Oh, he was a murderer. How are you advocating for this man? And really that side you never got to see. Your grandfather loved you and like doted on you. And anytime we talk about him, I always hear about like the great memories that you guys had.

Growing up, when did you start realizing that there was something different about your family? Because I heard you state in an interview that it was a very secretive family. To this day, my family, they just can't help themselves. They're very secretive. And that's why with my four children, like, just come ask me everything. Just get it off your chest. What do you want to know?

It had to be about nine years old when all this started. And it never, it went into that family, to my actual family that I was living with. Because I also out a father. Right. He wasn't a straight shooter either, even though he's legit on paper, he had a past that if you Google it comes up. So, you know, if I was born in this time, they would never have a chance to keep up any secrets. Right. But then they were very secretive about everything. So it was about nine and how I always remember that. Cause that's another thing.

How do you remember your childhood trauma? I remember it when I was five, but I had to do with the holy time of communion. My grandfather's body language changed differently so much that day. It was, it was always about me and fussing and fussing, but he became like talking in the corner, like not himself. Like I could read his body language. He was like, he knew something was going down to me. You know, he took whatever happened to him like a man. He never ratted. He never cooperated.

But he was still nervous because a lot of stuff was happening. And I guess that was in the time frame. Like words were being shared and, you know, things were different. Let's kind of paint a picture for the people at home about, you know, what happened with your grandfather. So there was an undercover agent named Joe Pistone, who entered, infiltrated the mob as Donnie Brosco. Yes. Can you tell us that story and take us on that journey? Well, everybody thinks that my grandfather was the one who introduced him to everyone. He wasn't. My grandfather got introduced to Pistone from another man that was part of the book.

And, um, because the book tells the real side opposed to the movie. Joe Pistone wrote a book. He sold the book to the, you know, to the movie company. I don't know who produced it at the time. And they had the right to change it. Because once you, they buy the rights

to the book, it's lights, camera, action. So from that where they got to change the ending that my grandfather was murdered he died of cancer in slum kettering hospital so it was totally different yeah so again a lot of people don't know when you work for the fbi you're not supposed to profit off your work so post pastone wrote the book they fired him because he was just like rewarded, like, here's your plaque and a check for $200. But this man was so engulfed in this lifestyle that I think he never would have quit. Like they pulled him off because supposedly there was going to be a hit on my grandfather.

Yeah. So they, they closed down the whole operation. Let's, let's, let's rewind it back and start from the beginning. So your grandfather allegedly had a gambling problem, correct? Or is this gambling and women? Give it a love to Blondie. My kind of guy. I'm from Vegas. Um, so he, you know, had a gambling problem and he was kind of, this is me just, you know, all the research that I did and correct me if I'm wrong, but I want you to tell the story also. So he kind of had a gambling problem and enter Joe Pistone, AKA Donnie Brosco presents himself as this jewel thief, this, you know, hustler, whatever. And he starts working with your grandfather to initially start paying back his debts, right? Well, this again, this is what happened. So he met my grandfather through somebody that was in their, their crew already cooperating. So he met my grandfather through somebody that was in their crew already cooperating.

So if you're already with somebody who's cooperating, what are they going to tell you? So now we need to move on to the next one. So the guy introduced the Pistone. Then my grandfather and him became extremely close. And my grandfather, regardless, they were making money. Whatever he did with that money, yes, it was definitely to pay debt, probably to go pay some more, probably to go buy us gifts, whatever it it was it was for his lifestyle and to pay off debt but also to keep gambling right and to live right so moving on from that he also hold on let me get my bifocals on let me not

even be able let me not even pretend to be able to read this without my glasses um he came he became a made man though after working with pastone and then um after you know him and pastone had a pretty because i'm just trying to paint his picture at home for people so they can see all that you've been through and you know the story of your grandfather um he and he became best friends with joe pastone man at the wedding. Wow. Because he got remarried. Him and my grandmother were divorced. And he married this girl that I thought for many years was the maid. See, I'm going back to the family secrets. Like, nothing was off limits here.

I'm like, who's calling? I'm like, I'm calling the house. And they're like, it's the maid. I'm like, the maid? No, in reality, they were shading her, though. Yeah. They were being petty and shading. They would never say anything like, you know, through whatever took place.

So many secrets came out like this movie, through the book, through him going to jail. Like they waited till after he died. So it was like, damn, like it all hit you. So before he passed away from cancer, i there was a part where it said that you were um you know nine years old at your first communion all this stuff was going down um you know him and pistone became best friends and then one of the head bosses was murdered and it caused like a split in the families when was the last time you needed to go to a doctor but you pushed it off? Made the

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maybe that's when they found out brosco was an informant right something happened with the book yes i mean with a boat yeah and they said they put two and two together they have said that there was like a yacht party and it made the news and that's how they start your grandfather started questioning pastone and this will get better because see like if he was maybe here today once i found out about the book and i had a breakdown and i'm starting i'm a teenager i'm like maybe like in my no a little bit older maybe like like twenties. And I'm like, what is this? And then I said to myself, he goes, do you have anything you want to ask me? You could ask me whatever. I took a deep breath and I said, no, you're my grandfather. I don't want to. But before I got the book the day before I got the book, I was hysterical crying for two days straight. So the book hit me first before the movie. Right. So I had the chance to like,

see how you're asking me all these questions. Some of them I do and don't, don't know because I could have asked him anything. He would have told me whatever. I didn't care. Yeah. It didn't care anymore because it's like, you can't tell me about a person that I know. It's truly not my business. What a man does when he leaves the house. Right. If we're married perhaps. Right. But there's your grandfather. Yeah. It's like a level of respect and I didn't need to know it. So as far as that, I think what took place was there. They found out Donnie Brasco was an agent. Then they were going to put a hit out on my grandfather. They took him right off the street, arrested him.

That was it. And he had no record. My grandfather never had any priors or anything like that. He went to jail for the RICO Act. And during this entire time, your family is still lying to you and not telling you anything that's going on. How as a little girl, is that making you feel like, does that give you anxiety? Does that give you depression? Like, I think one of the, the, the, um, most awesome things that I gathered from doing the research on you was you said that you

used to sit down and write your grandfather letters, but then you would also write back his response to you. And even as a child, that's a form of manifestation. Well, yes, but let's talk about the word anxiety. I don't think that word was used back then. This is, this is a word of now. This is a word in the past couple of years. It wasn't big growing up. It wasn't big. If a parent had a problem, maybe they should be on bipolar medicine. There wasn't a problem. Like, let a problem, maybe they should be on bipolar medicine. There wasn't a problem. Like, let's be honest with our kids. Everything was very hush. So for me, that had to be an anxiety. I couldn't come and tell my parents, this is what I know. I was, I had the knot in my feeling, you know, my stomach. I had like, I was sad. I was crying.

That's anxiety. I was nervous, but you didn't know what that nobody explained it to you. There was no internet. There was nobody talking about it at school. There was nobody to help you with your problems. So I had to deal by myself. I was writing because I'm watching things on the news. I'm grasping it, but I'm not, it was still a lot, but I knew, I knew how to know his, hear his name. I knew how to see him on the TV, but nobody would tell me. So I had to figure it out myself to a degree. I had to write letters and I had actually write it to my grandfather telling him how I felt. That was my therapy. And then after that- But at such a young age to do that. I had no outlet. Karen would tell you, she'd be like, this all makes sense. Because after she watched the special that I did and I discussed that she goes, this makes sense. Why are you always all

the time in the room by yourself? Like they will go outside and play a lot. And I would just be like, no, I'm in my room because I got so used to it. I became used to being drew my own therapist in a way. And also like my best friend, like, you know, when somebody has like, not even like an alter ego and somebody talks to yourself, but it's's really you and you say it out loud. That's what I was doing. I was doing a dual, like being my own psychiatrist. That is crazy that you did that at such a young age. And then when was the pivotal moment that you actually, your parents were actually honest with you? I think some letters got intercepted. My mother and I, we have the same name, same first name.

They call her Mona instead of Ramona. But the letters, he would never call her Mona. He would always write to her Ramona. She gave me her letter. I said, ho, ho, ho. This is it. This is like the jackpot. I'm going to finally get time to express what's going on.

I read her letter. I said, I'm going to read it out loud. So I would never make my mother listen to my grandfather's letter. They were sacred. They were private. Nobody could read them. Nobody could touch them. He wasn't telling me the code that's safe at all the millions.

It was just between us. So now I'm like, I read the letter out loud to my mother. And he's like, ha, Mona, you know, days a little bit not that great. You know, jail is what it is. Something pertaining to that, he said the word jail. All of a sudden, the floodgates, he just started hailing and crying. You know, did we talk about how I set her up? To this day, we never even had that conversation.

But even then, as a little kid, I was basically setting up my mother because that was my outlet to get, you know. To get answers. But let the cat out of the bag. Yeah. And, you know, I could have, but let the cat out of the bag. Yeah. And you know, I could have been again, why, what happened? Just want to see him. We don't have to talk about all that because I didn't want to hear it because I was so tired at that point being lied to. And I didn't know if I could trust what was going to come out of your mouth and really,

did it even matter? He is where he was. It was a lot for a nine-year-old, but it was like, just give me to the prize already. I don't care about know i'm packing it just give me to the prize and he was the prize going to jail let's go visit they had taken him after your communion a little bit after is that is that we we had circled away from that but so at your communion you could tell that your grandfather's body language was off and And shortly after, shortly after maybe like maybe a month or two, he was gone. And we're in Florida. That's what he's telling me. My parents like, he's in Florida.

And so between that time and the time that you got that letter, your parents were lying to you the entire time. Not even the parents, the whole family. It wasn't just my mother and father. Everybody was in on it. Aunts, the whole family. It wasn't just my mother and everybody was in on it. Ants, uh, friends, everybody. It was like, you know, shh, don't tell the kids. Lies really could destroy a family. Yeah. That's gotta be so painful and traumatizing as a child to know that you, they pretty much initially gaslit you your whole childhood. And that's traumatic as fuck. More than traumatic because

it's like something that, you know, when I, it really depends. Like I don't remember what I ate yesterday for dinner. I don't remember a lot of stuff, especially, you know, this age creeping up on you. I don't remember. And I try to do whatever I could do to like, I play the little crosswords and try to like always jog the brain, but I could always go back to the first day I visited him in jail. I remember what I wore. I remember the corduroys. Like if you had to feel like, if you had to put them in front of me, I could remember the type of corduroys they wore. I could remember the watch. I could remember how my hair was. And I could remember like, you know, when you go in a hospital room and you just feel like that eeriness and the coldness and there's a certain type of sterile smell.

Yeah. That's what jail reminds me of, all that. And back then, I did have to see him in cuffs because it was different back then. Yeah. And a lot of people don't know, it's like he was in MDC, which is the lower part of Manhattan. So now I could officially say where he is.

So we went from not seeing, you know, not knowing where he was to like, he's at the window. Look, he's at the window. He's waving at you. So now it was like my family's like, look, he's waving. And I'm like, last week you told me he was enjoying the sun. Now it's like, look, he's waving. So it went. It just it's a lot. It was a lot to take in. You know, even though I got to see him, it was still a lot. What was that like that first meeting, seeing seeing your grandfather what kind of emotions was that um different uh because there was many people around where I'm not used to where

he can't get up he can't pick me up and throw me you know but then once I initially got into the visit it was like nobody else was around anymore but initially it was like this is horrible because it's like now we're like supervised on rules, but in the rules that he had to tell me where, you know, this is going to be different, but he was still, he had charisma. He still did it with such grace where, you know, fast forward, not fast forward, you go back in time and everyone say, how do you remember things? I went to go visit my father when I was jailed when I was younger, and he really didn't have much grace. I spilled the soda, the Coca-Cola, and it was like, clean it up.

Like, that was traumatic. Where anything that took place with my grandfather there, it was still done in grace. Where, again, how did I remember when I went to go visit my father in jail many years when I was young? It was like four. How do you remember that? Because something took place there. That soda spilling sent a trigger to my brain and I'm like every time

sometimes a Coke that's what I remember a Coca-Cola being spilt that is so wild that your parent that your family would let you go visit your father in jail I wasn't gonna remember who thought I would remember Bunny yeah I was little and then he was oh we were in college I went to go visit my father in college so at that age do you really know that you're in jail I was little. And then. He was, oh, we were in college. I went to go visit my father in college. So at that age, do you really know that you're in jail? I was little. I had to be maybe like about four or something like that. I don't remember the exact age, but I was tiny where enough they could lie to you. Yeah.

But I still remember. Right. Still like, you know, you see the pictures. So they took you to jail, but they said he was in college? Yes. Oh my gosh. And that's a big mob thing. That's a big Italian thing. I don't know if it goes into other you know um nationalities they're like where's

where's her father oh he's in college wow he's away he's in school nobody like was your dad in the lifestyle also gotcha yeah i can tell it's hard for you to talk about it yeah because you know i don't really i don't speak to my, but that's a whole other can of worms. But yeah, that was like a whole other thing. Whatever. I went to go visit him in jail that time when I was younger, dude,

it's 2023. I could search you on the internet. Yeah. So you don't need to blame me for mob wives for coming up. Everybody's skeletons are coming up. You don't need to show still in prison or is he out? Oh no, no. My father's a hundred percent legit.

He's why don't you to show he's still in prison or is he out oh no no my father's 100 legit he's why don't you guys talk anymore oh because i married someone out of my nationality that wasn't um fbi which and i said what's fbi i'm like we don't like fbi he goes no full-blooded italian i said jesus christ can't catch a break around here so i married somebody that he didn't approve of. And at the end of the day, it's like, okay, don't approve of him. I have four kids now, but we just don't speak. But still, but still love your daughter. Even if you don't approve of who I marry. But after all that came to place, it goes deeper. And I'm like, maybe it just wasn't meant for me to have a relationship with him. I see who he is now.

Maybe it's better off I'm not with him. Yeah. You know, I just had a family member pass, my aunt, who was like my second mom. I had to do four days with this man in, you know, the funeral parlor. I was like a soldier. Just let it roll right off. My kids are like, that's him. This is everybody everybody's intimidated from

i go not me i go you daughter goes no i said so let's just keep rocking it is what it is some because he's like a stone face my dad but i think sometimes in life things happen for a reason and with him you know maybe was because of my husband but maybe if i didn't have my husband it may have been for another reason. Some people shouldn't be parents. My mom's a great woman, and she deals with a lot of stuff. But for him, I think he should have been a guy that should have had dogs because he's just very good to animals because animals can't talk back to you. Animals are going to do what you tell them to do.

There's no compromise. There's no, well, you told me this, and I believed you. No, no, I can't do it like that. We never said that. Kids are very big on that. Working on something and I believed you. No, no, I can't do it like that. We never said that. I'm, kids are very big on that. Yeah. You know, working on something and getting the goal here. Look, I got all this stuff. You said I can move now. I never said that. You have to stay here until you get married. Oh hell motherfucking no. I don't care about your Italian traditions. I'm moving out beforehand. Yeah. If I get married or not, like I was very good, but in some degrees

I was a rebel. You know what I mean? Did that happen after your grandfather passed away? Let's talk about that really quick. You're so you're we left off where your grandfather got. I'm just we'll tie this all in together. But we left off where your grandpa you had just found out that he was in prison. You went to go visit him. How long did he stay in prison after that? And did you stay in communication with him? Well, it was always with my grandfather. You never knew that he wasn't around because he went to go visit him how long did he stay in prison after that and did you stay in communication with him well it was always with my grandfather you never knew that he wasn't around because he got to you know i guess in jail it's the type of thing where you could use the phone he was always on the

goddamn phone but got to the point like what are we going to talk about now like during holiday everyone's like pass the phone because he was always you know speaking to us so there was nothing new in the past 10 minutes right so uh So, uh, we always got to talk, but from that time, from that time, when I went to go see him again, I was like, maybe like 10. The next time I got to go see him was in Nashville. Wow. So it was kind of a double banger. I got to see the two men that I loved Elvis Presley and my grandfather. Wow. Cause Elvis and my grandfather, the only two men I've always put in my heart. I was a fan since the day he died. So I'm not going to just say my age, but I was five through the math. So, uh, I became in love with Elvis. So I was like, this is a cool trip. Yeah. But the only

reason why I got to go and the whole family got to go, cause he was diagnosed with cancer. But between then I never got to go on a visit and I'll tell you why. Was he incarcerated in Nashville? Yeah. Oh, wow. So I never got to go, Bunny, because when I came home from that visit, my father didn't approve of it. He went nuts on my mother.

My mother didn't tell him I was going. Now, mind you, we never discussed when I was little and went to go visit him. So when I went to that visit, so certain things set off in your brain. I was a little chunky monkey I like to eat I was a little cookie kid which used to feed me like you know like mock my weight but still give me cookies he was making cookies and he'll be like where were you today the minute I got into I was like what where were you I said I went to go visit papa and jail and they put the

cookies up in the air so So this became even more traumatic. So it was like I said, when certain people shouldn't make me have kids. Did he not have a good relationship with your grandfather? No, he kissed his ass. They were fine. They were cool. But why should I? Again, this is still a man that I love.

He's still part of the scenario of the family. Someone that you just took away without any reasoning of why. And this is what took place. My mother didn't tell him, I guess, because maybe she knew he was going to say no. Right. Work that among yourselves. Not my problem. It shouldn't have been my problem, but it became my problem. And it was horrible. So I remember that. So up until that time, the next time I saw him again, send major presents, always calling us getting you know people doing sketches of you from from jail like you know we always had stuff from him but I never got to see him until I was in high school and when I knew when they said he was gonna pass so they released him from jail and

did they release him because he was so sick um I'm sorry i have like a little frog in my throat it's the uh i like drinking glass bottles that's the way yes always it's hard to know do you guys do you want something to drink um we have one of these for you if you want i'll take one later because i don't want her to bother with my lips but um i didn't get to see him till then and my father really put, made me feel worse than what it was. So I was dealing with leaving my grandfather behind in a very cold hospital. Like the closest thing I could,

you know, at that time, it's like, it wasn't like the visits you go today. Like you go and like, sometimes you could be, you know, against somebody.

Sometimes you could have the glass. It was just, to me, it just reminds me of a very sterile visit. Like, like that hospital cold feel. It was, cause maybe it was my first time. I reminds me a very sterile visit like like that hospital cold feel it was because maybe it was my first time i you know popped my cherry going to visit people in jail like you know that was it so i didn't get to see him till i was in a teen so he did the 13 years

in jail came home from did they let him go because he was sick or the freak knows he still he did his whole time he did his whole bed okay but it was so funny because I think he did like the two years before everything, before he got sentenced. And I think he did 13 years since the whole time. But 13, right? Right. He dies. He gets out.

He dies 13 months later. Should have played a lot of 13 and 13, like crazy shit. And then he died. I was like, look at him. Died on my favorite holidays like there was no way i was ever gonna forget him but he made sure it was on thanksgiving oh grandpa yeah so it's like kind of like maybe it was like you know to remember i will never ever forget him but i was like like stamping it more i was like wow this is even crazier but yeah so

take me on that journey of your grandfather, pretty much the light of your life, the one man that you really look up to because you don't have a great relationship with your father. So he essentially was that father figure in your life. Losing him, dealing with the anxiety of pretty much bearing the weight of your parents issues on your shoulders how old were you when your grandfather passed away i was about 22. about 22. take me on this journey like what

does ramona do without her grandfather in her life well you have to remember too all that time while he was in jail i had another grandfather and again when i did mob wives i was i always said that i'm never gonna never gonna say something that people didn't know. Right. So people would have done their home. Like a lot of people do their research. So one of the things was when I originally said I was going to go do mob wives and I had to go meet an uncle about it. Cause he had to give me something. My grandmother, who was my father's mother passed. And he's like, I hope you're not going to say anything about my father. So who do I go to? I go to the mafia, you know, the 411, the information book.

I said, Karen, who the fuck was my grandfather? Well, your grandfather, meaning my father's dad, was the one who got my father into the mob or he was in his crew. I'm like, really? So now we start going through names. And I was like, what about this guy? I love how disconnected from it you are, though. Like, Karen is so immersed in it and can tell you.

We grew up totally different. Yeah. Her father told her everything. Yeah. Everything. This girl knew everything. So, and I was like, well, what about, what's his name? When he would come to my grandfather's house, she goes, he was a sharpshooter.

This guy was. I was like, holy shit. So all these people that i thought were like regular people that never would think anything that they're about they were really about it but you would never think that wow so again karen was the one who told me if i had any questions so here i am on a show but i said to myself i, I'm only going to talk about, I don't speak to my dad, so I'm not going to shine light on that. Yeah.

I can't help what's going to come out if there's anything going to come out because he did it to himself. He was a grown man. He put himself in that lifestyle. Right. So my whole situation before my grandfather actually died, I still had another grandfather that was alive, but I wasn't close with with but my family was still anything that came into our home if it was about anyone it was a secret right like even one time it was so crazy

the height of karen's father's situation and before he got arrested and they were every it's like listen dude at the end of the day you guys are going to the same spot every week but john got he didn't care they were filming it so one time I'm watching the news inside and I see my father. Cause it's like, it's like they had a appointment every week. So there's my father in the news. I go in the bedroom to rip into my mother. She was just up two minutes ago. She's under the covers like this. I'm like making like she's snoring. Like she's going to town store. I go get up, please. The gig is up. Just stop. You know what I mean? So everything bunny Bunny. So it didn't end there. And even if it was a question, it was kind of like when people watch The Sopranos and

she goes, what's the mafia? Are we in the mafia? I couldn't ask that at home because I was going to get lied to. Right. You know, because people still have legit jobs and, you know, they're still, you know, part of something that you can't get out of. You know, I don't know how you get, how you, maybe you die, maybe you rat, you know, guess like, however you join a gang, that's their whole, you know, oath.

But I could never ask that. So the lies continued. They were just covered up in different ways. So like with Karen's father's situation, you know, then it became like, well, I said, Karen's father is Sammy you know, then it became like, well, I said, Karen's father is Sammy the bull. Yeah. So with him, it was like, I'm not going to turn my back on her, you know, whatever men

do, you know, but a lot of people did a lot of people, which is terrible because a child should never have to pay for the sins of the father. I've never believed that, you know, and she paid her own sins and she'll talk about it. It's no secret. She rebelled like a motherfucker. She said she rebelled hardcore. And it was rightfully so, though. You guys all, you know, were kind of born into a lifestyle that you didn't choose.

And it's like when you finally get that first taste of freedom and you're able to just say fuck you to everybody. I mean, that's I would I would have done. I don't know if she told you, like when we went out and we didn't know like every place you went, everybody winds it up knowing somebody in our family. So we would make up names. Yeah, she told me hers was Gina.

Yeah, I would make up a name because I didn't want to be caught up in that and I didn't want to be in trouble because again, she had a different lifestyle. She was allowed to go out. We had to sneak out of my house. But even when we would sneak out of her house, they admitted to her later on that the FBI agents were watching us come off the roof.

We could have been dead. You're watching kids shimmy off the roof. They didn't give two shits. They didn't report it. They didn't call the police. Said, let them fall. Who gives a shit? I mean, I'm talking about a steep roof here. They didn't care. So we grew up differently. My family was more of a secret so it always i you know the closest thing like this whole mob wife aesthetic the closest thing i've ever lived to the sopranos because again it roots from the sopranos it's the 25th anniversary um that's how like all these women came up and you know soprano carmella she is the number one tv mob wife you know because everybody on our show was

not a mob wife it was just what the focus group right it was you know going on the tales of all the housewife shows that were you know very prominent who was an actual mob wife on the show anybody was renee well hector really wasn't a made guy because he was Puerto Rican. Right. And, you know, that was a very bad situation. That was all real TV. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's a whole fucking other. That, you know, something like that.

So what, you know, there wasn't really a mob wife on. It was just it was just a word. I was the closest one becoming one because I was engaged to somebody at the time. But he got arrested while I was on the show while you're on the show I remember that so let's let's circle back so you move on you know you're dealing with all this stuff personally when does mob wives come knocking on your door how old were you well mob wives didn't come knocking on my door mob wives I was out of the country I had oh is this way okay so you've met your husband. Yes. Okay. So let's talk about

the husband, the ex-husband, the deceased husband. He just recently just passed. So that was a whole other thing I had to deal with. Um, yeah. Can we talk about that? Yeah, no, it's fine. So, um, I met my ex-husband through, um, one of these people's jobs that my parents placed me in. So you don't want me around this, but meanwhile I'm working for people of such demeanor so it was a mob affiliated job gotcha so i wasn't italian correct he wasn't italian but his partners were his partners was a big guy okay so here i am i get this job guy totally wasn't my type um had kids prior i had the perfect boyfriend before i had the one that looked like he was going to law school. He looked like the Ken.

We were like, I always remember like that Brendan and Dylan from 90210. That was us. We did the Europe trip. We did the whole nine. But he was a psycho. Right. And it's always the cute ones. Really like, like, honestly, like the preppy murderer, like he could have those tendencies.

American psycho. Yes. That I got rid of. But now my husband, who was actually my boss at the time, it's like the regular story, like the boss and the secretary fall in love with each other. They put me in charge of this office to basically like kind of watch him in a degree.

And plus a lot of people couldn't understand his dialect because even though he was Arab, he spent like 20 years in Italy. He was an exchange student. So his accent was very different. But we ran one of the largest telecommunications company. And that became a frigging shit show with the mob and this and that and all the stuff that was being exploited at the time.

But he could sell ice to the Eskimos, my ex-husband. So basically, it wasn't based on his looks because I had the best looking. It was how he treated me. But this is where it comes into play. It was the height of when this movie was coming into. So I was still didn't have a good relationship with my dad, was never close with him. This man working with him one on one, you know, everything I said like, hey, you should do this for your diet.

Like it was a mutual respect and it gave me a I worked for my position. I wasn't sleeping with him, anything like that. We didn't hook up. It's a much later on. He did it in a way where he just disappeared. He started working from home. He did like reverse psychology where I grew to miss him. And then one day I was in the midst of buying, um, I had made a lot of money. I was buying my first apartment in battery park and I needed him for help because I told my parents originally, I had made a lot of money. I was buying my first apartment in Battery Park and I needed him for help because I told my parents originally, I'm going to save this money. I want to move out. When I came with the down payment, I never said that. So here I am a deer in the headlights, nobody helping me. So he helped me. I didn't know anything about mortgages. I

didn't know anything about co-ops, nothing about that. Your family wouldn't help you? No, because he didn't want me to move out because he never thought i would save the money because i said look if i'm not married at this is your dad right i'm bouncing this is your dad yeah and he's like your mother doesn't want you to move either and he tried to do some like reverse psychology like well i'll move if i'm the problem i go you're not the problem i'm not living by the fact that i because we're italian and then you could only leave if you're getting married. I'm not into that. Like I was kind of,

I wasn't a wild child, but there's certain things that I believe that if I was. That's a very traditional, like old school way of thinking. When my father was different because it's like when my uncle had passed in the movie,

remember the guy that they made out to be the drug addict? The movie that we keep referring to is Donnie Brosco. Donnie Brosco. In case you guys didn't catch that. They made like my uncle

um you know he had a problem who really didn't have you know have it coming up a lot of people were on coke it was the thing to do back then you know uh the drug of the 80s yes so long story short my uncle was murdered from affiliation of the life he was with one of his friends they told him don't stay with him. They killed him. But getting back to my father and his strictness, we never really had, you know, at that age, I was still young. I was like maybe about 12.

My grandfather was still alive. You know, he was in jail, so he couldn't handle it. He couldn't do all the preparation. My father was like, you can't watch TV. I'm like, what? Old school Italians, they believe when somebody dies, you can't even tv i'm like what old school italians they believe when somebody you can't even watch tv can't have music i'm like god jesus christ like it became really weird why is that is that like a respect factor i guess maybe my father's my father my father is not

he's born here but he lived with his grandparents they lived in the house growing up so he speaks italian had a lot of their traits he's sicilian like it's the hardest italian it's like rocks they got brains like rocks it's really bad so then after that i got shipped to his mother's house and while my mother was mourning and we could have watched tv but in my home where i lived with my mom we couldn't watch tv wow so everything was different with my dad. He was very, very hard. So, you know, I was not close with him. And then again, his father was part of the lifestyle. He was, it was never discussed. So it was all these different things that took place. So now again, coming back to how I met my husband, it was the height of this movie being shot.

Before I worked for my husband, I worked for one of the top law firms. My family got a copy of the script. I'm like, I'm not dealing with this shit. They put my, I should have let them leave my grandmother into it. I had my ex, um, um, the law, uh, place I work for the law firm. I made them write them a letter. They took my grandmother out of it because they made her like she was the annoying ex-wife. They didn't talk. Listen, they still have kids together. You know, he was married't talk. Listen, they still had kids together. You know, he was married to a new person, but they had little, you know, little talk here and there. But it wasn't like, I'm going to kill him, all this bullshit.

She caught him many times cheating. It was the end of it. He remarried. I love how Hollywood tries to paint jaded women as like the villain or the bad people, when really everybody knows if you get fucking cheated on you're gonna dislike the human who has fucking hurt you that bad gave him so many different different chances my grandmother and that was another thing too as i grew older and

they started telling me the story you know now you'd be like if your friend has their husband cheats on them you'd be like that mother effer i still couldn't bring myself to see it because i was like you know what it's between. I knew how to separate it. So I got a copy of the script while I'm working at my husband's firm, the communications company. I made my old bosses take them out. Take my grandmother out. Like, listen, if you don't remove this lady, we're going to sue you. She's still alive.

They remove her. So now I'm like, this is still not sitting right with me i gotta do something i gotta speak up for my grandfather because they waited for him to die and at the time it was very rare where you got paid for interviews barbara walters before my grandfather passed offered him two million dollars trust me we could have used the money because everybody thought that our family made money off of this and my grandfather had no money like that he could have left he's like no i'm not talking he went out like a man's man so they waited for him to die to put this movie out so once i got this copy i'm like this is some shit this is not real i knew that they were filming it

in my old neighborhood which i grew up in so even though i hadn't been there since i was young my cousin's mother still lived there so i still knew in and out of the place. I went there. I scoped it. I brought my sister who my sister was funny. She was like when Karen, everybody went out. She was the brawler. Like they were fighting people, beating them up. I bring her there to meet. You're a brawler too.

I've seen it on Mob Wives. She's hysterical crying. She breaks down because now I get to go meet Pacino. I like basically stalk him. I'm like on stalker mode. I'm like, they're like, he'll be here soon. I I know where his trailer is I'm asking everybody in the neighborhood so I'm having breakfast in the local diner the whole area so then finally I wait for him to come outside like to go into his trailer I'm like Mr. Pacino he like looks at me who's this girl who get like

another fan I was like I want to talk to you about my grandfather lefty gun Jujirio his mouth dropped the guy goes one minute he comes he goes he's gonna take you inside so my sister goes inside again tough as nail she starts hysterical crying i go what the frig you crying about shut up get it together i want to talk to this man i brought all my proof i brought my letters i brought you know our pictures because a lot of people bunny even like now i get weird dms i'm your grandfather's other daughter. Dude, you'd be really old. And I don't think that's true. Like Karen has like, you know,

someone saying that they're Karina's father. People which you know are freaky. So I came prepared with the truth just in case because I could have been a stalker liar. Yeah, for sure. I love that he was willing to take that meeting with you like that. Amazing man. So graceful.

Because what I found out about Pacino is when he goes into character, he supposedly doesn't break it. So while he's on set, I was always like a method actor. He still continues it going. So honestly, to meeting me,

probably would have been like a plus for him. So, and he was so graceful, so nice. He did. He said something to me that made this whole horrible situation so much easier.

He said, Ramona, I'm going to me that made this whole horrible situation so much easier. He said, Ramona, I'm going to take not only your grandfather, what I know about him from the book, but everybody else around him. And I'm going to make my own character based on that. Yes. It's based on your grandfather because I said, my grandfather, my grandmother's, his wife's mother came from Ellis Island. She was from Spain. So from that moment she set foot in america her that my great-grandmother my mother my grandmother always worked in fashion my mother went to fit i was like you have him looking like a schlep like that movie made him

look like he you know he was a hobo where my grandfather was at the t see the hat never even owned a hat like that so they you know jizzed it up to make it more like maybe hollywood make make it look a certain way my point of this meeting with pacino was to make sure that he knew that he just had it when it came to the family if there was going to be a part about that play that would love yeah because regardless whatever went on with this family this costa nostra family he did love us. And I wanted them, if they were, because again, scripts change. It could go into certain things. I just wanted to make sure that I said my piece and paid my respect.

It was like my last homage to him. Like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make sure that my, because I got a mouth when I want to use it, is going to get known because this is crazy. And he said to me, everybody around him, this was going to be, um, Hollywood has to do things differently.

And he explained to me once they bought the book, the movie company bought the book, they're allowed to change it. So that's how they got to change it. Made that so much smoother for me. And I basically, at the end of it, it's like when I met another celebrity,

I had to let them go because after I was, I, I came, I got what I needed. And I was like, thank you. Like, there was no reason for me to keep it going. Like, you know, he was gracious enough. Yes, to give me his time. Yeah.

I felt like he probably would have talked to me. He was so nice and he was so gracious. He probably would have given me another hour, but I didn't need it. I got everything that I wanted right then and there. I said my piece. I said, when it comes to the family, that's all it really was about. Anything else I didn't need it I got everything that I wanted right then and there I said my piece I said when it comes to the family that's all it really was about yeah anything else I couldn't control after that what a fucking clusterfuck oh your family must have made so much money first of all dude nobody needed the money yeah and we didn't make any money that was Donnie Brosco's thing that was with the you know if you were educated you knew it came from the

book we had nothing to do with it but that's all i got so meeting my husband it's crazy that joe was able to make joe pistone was able to make money off of it but not your grandfather my grandfather didn't want to because it was against his oath he would never make my grandfather was very old school yeah so like i said he wasn't like my father like hey you couldn't watch tv if somebody died he wasn't like that but old school in his values with this whole mob thing. And how I did learn that, because I did get to listen to some of the tapes, you know, that they have on YouTube. And that, is that normal, Bunny? No.

It's like, in a way, it like, it gives me peace that I could get to hear my grandfather's voice. But it's weird that what I'm listening to. Right. You know what I mean? But then I'm like, hey, now I know why I get some anger issues or how I know maybe I get some backbone. And the best it'll be like, you know, I'll be such a curse. So my mother be like, don't curse. I'm like, listen, it's in the family genes or I've been maybe I should have just been a dude like I don't know. You know, it's crazy. But again, that's how my whole my husband kind of like I don't want to say weasel, but nestled his way because I was very vulnerable at that time. And he presented all the key factors that I needed. I needed someone to basically be there for me. And when, when the actual movie came out,

you know where I was, I was in Jordan. I left the country. So you met your husband last we left off. Your husband was helping you get this apartment. Did he help you get that apartment? I did get the apartment and I acquired it before I started dating him. I still had the crazy ex-boyfriend at the time who I was like distancing and distancing. And then he's coming to my door with three carrot rings, fighting with security to try to get up, you know, come see me. And I was just totally done with him. But now he knew where I lived because I moved out of my parents' home. So with all this happening, you know,

my ex-husband, who was very cunning, knew how to set it up. But we weren't together then. He was just helping. But I never, and I said to my girlfriend, said to me, one how to set it up, but we weren't together then. He was just helping, but I never, and I said to my girlfriend, said to me, one of my best, oh,

I think he likes you. I go, shut the fuck up. Like, no, he doesn't. She saw it. I couldn't because I just thought it was like a boss,

like a relationship, like someone that was, you know, being there for me. And I think it was the best thing that I did leave and go out of the country because I don't know if I could have handled, especially if it was this day and age. How did he talk you into leaving the country?

Because that's huge to be able to be like, hey, I'm going to take this Italian princess and move her to Jordan. At that time, we were together. Okay. And I had left to go get married. And I left the country and I got married there. Without your father and you aren't talking at this point, right? Because he knew you guys were dating. But I got married there without your father. And you aren't talking at this point, right? Cause he knew you guys were dating, but, but, but I got married there. So there for like

a month or two came home. I got married a Muslim marriage. So it wasn't, it wasn't official. I didn't record it. So when I came home, certain things we separated and I said, you know what? I don't know. Like, let me just see, you know know like a lot of the dust settled and my head was still a little bit my mom wasn't talked my mom was destroyed I was gone it was like all these things and who was upset it was a lot I was still it was still a lot I was still like maybe like 24 25 still young yeah and um yeah that's a baby I still tried to like we still try to set keep away from each other we hooked back up and that was the end of it. So we had four kids.

But take me on this journey. It wasn't such an easy journey for you. Like you ended up having to fight for your kids. Can you tell me all about this? Well, you could read in between the lines. We had a very good marriage. Everything was fine. My story, I will fully tell. It's not like,

oh my God, like I'm trying to like hold it. I can't tell it because if I was to tell it right now, a lot of that world still exists and why my marriage crumbled and why I winds up truly in the Middle East. I can't really fully say to, you know, the fullest degree because I have a son and I have kids. I don't want to talk about it now because everybody ain't going to live forever. So once certain people are where they belong, possibly in hell, then I'll put my book out. Gotcha. And, but what I could say is that, um, I wanted to go into Jordan. Um, I had, I had to become a mother before a wife. Like I had to put the mother before a wife. Like I had to put the kids first.

Even though we created these kids together and while we were married in America, he was a wonderful father and things were really good. When I went over there, I knew in my head that I was only bringing them to see the kids. See your dad.

Because I don't want it to be what happened to me and my grandfather just disappeared. Like, hey, now you're father. Because up until a certain, up until I, my husband told me that I'm going to Mexico. Like things were getting weird in the house. Weird in a sense where he was acting different. So I already knew the 411.

I knew what was coming. Now remember, if you sit back and I told you how I got the job, I got the job through right people right so now certain things were just crumbling down and you already have that like abandonment issue i don't know if it's okay to call it an abandonment issue but even though your grandfather didn't mean to abandon you that's wound is still there now i'm dealing with this again right but now i'm responsible for lives for kids yeah so i'm like shit but i still don't want these kids not to be around their dad so i'm thinking that he went to

told me he's going to i think mexico or something so i'll call like the first two days everything we're calling and again the marriage was becoming very strained because of certain components of people coming around. And, you know, and he was the type of guy like he didn't have a vicious bone in him. And I would have handled it a different way, but he wasn't built like that. And he had he had the right connects from the Middle East to handle it. That's all I'm going to say. Right. And he wasn't about that. And call in every day, call in every day.

Then eventually we're good. We're speaking. The fourth day now the phone crosses over. Fucking crosses over. It's in Arabic. I'm like, holy shit. He's in the fucking Middle East. I'm like, damn, this is really some shit now.

I'm like, oh my God. So I had to like. How many kids did you have at this point? Four. Oh, so you had. I had one. There wasn't even one. Oh my gosh.

My age is kids with kids right now i have a 25 a 24 23 and a 19 oh my goodness yeah i was busy girl it was tv you guys were making babies it was tv but i wanted to create my own family i'm not like one of those women were like oh my god we're gonna have two kids because i had i had a great marriage i had a great home everything was fine whatever god was to bless us with was going to bless us with, I'm not going to lie after the fourth one, because I had a miscarriage after that. After that, I was like, buddy, we need to do some type of protection. Cause I didn't want to handle that miscarriage. But I think again, everything in life happens for a reason

because I had one miscarriage after my son was born. But the last one was like, I don't think God would have been like, you could do this with five kids. He, listen, it's already predicted what's going to happen to you. So imagine even doing this with another kid. It was hard enough traveling over there. So I said, you know what? I'm not going to let the abandonment, my kids have the separation. I'm going to take them over there. I'm still going to get a divorce because I have to end this because I have to become a mother first. Right. And that was really hard and nobody understood it. And, um, I wanted them to see where the father was from. I went there before, love the country, love the people, love the culture. Jordan is very,

um, at the time they had, um, the, the princess, she was American. So a lot of things were changed and it was different. And, um, I got stuck there for four years, almost four years, three and a half years. And I had, I think I had read somewhere that you got stuck there because your husband was holding on to one of the last baby's passport. You know, the tattoo, a lot of people have, or the saying there's a thin line between love and hate oh sister that one came full effect do i blame him sometimes but then do i understand that he was also trying to save his family so certain things took place that you know did i add a little spark to the fire hell yeah because i just I just, I couldn't take it. I was so angry. There were certain things my kids, till this day,

they were babies. That's why I said when people were like, oh, you don't remember. My daughter was telling me the other day, she broke down and she's like, you don't remember that I remember when we went to that place and your nose was bleeding. And I'm like, I don't remember my nose being bleeding.

But she remembers when her and her dad and myself had a pretty big altercation that we went to like kind of like a shelter like they compare their like battered women and they gave him three choices either leave her alone you could sign this piece of paper or you if you bother again like three things what he did he went to another went to another country that was the last time that uh out of my four kids all three of them ever seen him because i went to where he was in another country i tracked him down there to try to go get a divorce but what was it an abusive marriage only again it was a thin line between love and hate there were certain things there he couldn't he couldn't take that i nobody ever thought that

women with four kids were gonna get up and get the fuck out of there in general or just leave in general you strike me as that person and i think back and i'm like fuck because a lot of people you hear even in america they stay because it's economically right right they stay because they don't want to um have that responsibility by themselves i was like fuck this shit got to just do it because I had to be a parent first. Did I love the life that he provided? Hell yeah. Did we, did he like become like the person that was like, Oh, if you, you know, you could have this, it was like, you know, rabbit, you know, putting the little carrot in front of the bunny's face, like that type of scenario. And I'm like, I had to pull back from that because I had to be responsible

for these kids. Did they fully understand it? Do they may have some resentment? I don't know. But so many things became so displaced. And I also said, I don't want to raise my kids like, um, to be army brats in a sense. And the best way that he could ever punish me was I got to go back to my family. That was the biggest punishment because there were certain things that I didn't want my kids to be around. Like if I was married to him, you know, he wasn't around the people that got him involved in that business.

They were no longer around. So I knew the minute that I was very grateful for my family taking me in because I had nothing coming back home. So you ended up going back home with the four babies. That was the biggest punishment. But before that, he tried everything to keep me there there i would have made it where if we could make it where i could have stood still still stood in the middle east because my kids had the best education they had an amazing education um

if you lived there middle class you were very rich the homes were beautiful the food was to die for if he would have made it where I could come home, I probably would have been down for it. But he's like, no. I'm like, no. Everybody come visit you here. I'm like, but when you see this shit on the news, they're like, they think the bombs are going off.

Jordan's nothing like that. They think that because, you know, it was a time after 9-11. Right. So everybody thinks it's this whole big thing. And it's not like that. But to convince people you love, you know, at the end,

I had to send three children without my fourth because she didn't have a passport. Nobody would come get them. And my family loved my kids, but they were scared. So I had to get like an airline stewardess to pay for them to watch my kids on the plane. Everybody thought like, no, the minute they got off the plane, they were going to be beheaded. Like that was going to be the end of them. So also then I had a lot of issues over there like he was strong-arming me where like well this could happen to you or one time we had you know when i was there i said i'm gonna be with you like i tried it but then like you know bunny i was like i felt worse i felt like i was in that harm's way like with my grandfather i felt like the bottom was gonna

i couldn't trust anymore you didn't feel safe because what i told him was you know through the marriage if i find out one thing you're back even talking to these people i get it now because i'm much mature and i'm older but then he couldn't tell me because he failed me as a husband but then i also knew that he had no choice but to talk to these people because i said to them i said if you bother with these people against the end of our marriage swear on the kids he told me i won't do it he had no choice to did i make a lot of rash decisions probably was a very hot-headed but that was my way of protecting my children yeah and i didn't want them to go through what you had to go through and in a degree you're trying to break generational trauma and in a way maybe they went through something worse because they don't have a dad

you know what i mean so i don't know there was because they don't have a dad. You know what I mean? So I don't know. There was no, I don't think there's any even side of this coin. They do know that I did everything to keep us together. Like, listen, he offered me a million dollars of money for the kids. Like, you know, he had tons of money, but I was like, I'm not leaving. Did he just step away from the kids after you moved back? No, he wanted, but he was here. I mean, I was here.

He was there. Cause that was a whole other issue. It wasn't like now anybody could come back over the border. There was a lot of shit. Yeah. Because he came from a country that he lived in Jordan, but he was originally from another country that's not recognized. Right.

So his passport, so to come back into America, he had to go through all the process and getting all the paperwork because he was never fully a citizen. I was in the process of making him one. paid millions of dollars in taxes but was never a citizen it was like some fucked up shit no that's sounds like the fucking government you know it is what it is it wasn't like now like you could you know walk over and nobody's gonna bother you it was different then like you know one time with the uh the um immigration they came to my house he's like i was doing my hair i like, you have to come home now.

Immigration. I go, if these motherfuckers can't see all the toys at my house look like toys or what's that? This is a real marriage. Yeah. Then they really need to go get a better job. And I took my time and I went there for the interview and he was on, he was on the cusp of getting his, his nationality,

but all the shit bottom fell out. So here I am trying to make everything nice go to the country and he just didn't want to let me leave and then i found out throughout that i had legal issues back home because of him because when he left he left so many business things well up in the air he had no choice who's left holding the bag the trophy wife so who if they can't get him when they're coming for me. Yeah, absolutely. So it was,

it was basically, it's, it's a lifetime movie. It's like the mob meets, not without my daughter, meet some corporate, like white collar shit. Fuck.

And at the end of it, everybody's like, and you tried your hardest to get away from it. And you know, and then like, and when I did the show, I wanted it to kind of be a meaning for women to be like, listen,

I get it. You know, so many people go through divor the show, I wanted it to kind of be a meaning for women to be like, listen, I get it. You know, so many people go through divorces and whatnot. The show you mean Mob Wives? Mob Wives. When they did Mob Wives. And they came knocking on your door when you were in Jordan? No. So again, one, Karen was on the show. She was going, they were talking about doing the show again.

It was never called Mob Wives. It was about all these girls. So I knew what they were getting into. So when I came back it was their first season so here i am now i'm just thrown back to some old friends karen had just moved back to arizona which was nice so she was kind of like when i got there she was like um in a sense a newbie of being back officially moved back right um some of the girls like i said you know renee's family did holidays with them, whatnot.

So they were like the first season, like, you know, do you want to be on it? I had to turn it down because I had all these legal issues. He left me with a bag of shit. I couldn't even get a Toys R Us credit card. Like everything was fucked up from top to bottom. You know, I was left like because we left the house. It was like we left like thieves in the night. I only packed for two weeks because my kids were enrolled to go to school.

And here I am got stuck there all these years. So when I came back, I was like, no, I can't do it now. I don't know what my fate is going to be with the law. I don't know. I had to check in with like some the D.A. or some. No, I don't know. Some high guy up in the government to make sure I wasn't like when he saw the case. I'm like, listen, I had nothing to do. There was charges brought up on you because they were never brought up on me they were trying to come up with something because of my husband so when i finally got one of the prosecutors

on though he goes i've been following this case i go what case i said did anybody did my husband hold a gun to anybody's head you only know about this case because it originally started organized crime the people that he's involved with now because he had to up and leave because he owed people money they don't understand that the guy had to go so right now you're going on something that had this is not about the mob so if you so he's like yeah you're right so they couldn't do anything to me so they were trying to like make me like a martyr like maybe he'll come back if we'll take the wife down but there was nothing to take me down for goodness they'll they'll go to any length any length yeah so after a while i thought

women and children were off limits not to not to the feds okay i mean i got please i got hit with so many different things that were just so unethical it's just like when i tell you it's a book it's a story it's a whole fucking lifetime and it just became so insane with everything that was happening so when the show took place i said listen guys i don't know what's gonna happen now my family took me back in you know i had to go live which was very humbling had to live with my aunt used to having my own house i built a 30 000 square foot in atlanta never got to live in wow you know my dream home to go to live in to a house where we're sharing bedrooms, but I had no place to go. But still, I appreciate it.

But it's still now it's somebody else's. It's humbling. Yeah. Somebody else's rules. Right. Somebody else's way of, you know, authority in the home. So that was the biggest punishment I felt from my divorce. If you had to say like, hey, Ramona, this is what was worse, losing money or that, that

because it also brought me back to a place where I didn't want to. My parents and my family are good people like, you know, they they just have a way of secretive or maybe the way that they believe. And, you know, for me, I'm like whatever my kids decide to do in their life, even if they wanted it to be, you know, in a relationship where somebody's not the same color somebody's not the same nationality i'm gonna be like listen it's not gonna be easy but if that's what you want to do i'm here for you yeah and my family oh hell no you'll be disowned you won't be you know what i mean like if say if you were how far has that gotten them you know like being secret old school yeah it's just it's just it's

the law of their way yeah you know karen has an inter yeah like it's just it's just it's the law of their way yeah you know karen has an interracial baby that would have never flown my home yeah never ever ever do they consider your kids interracial because that was like the weirdest thing it's like so weird because even when i came back home and i'll talk to my latin friends they'll like you're white i'm like but what the fuck are you like i never saw my friends that are latin not white right so when to see this. The only way that I found out that people judged differently is when I moved to good old Atlanta, Georgia.

So we lived there for many years. The good old South. Loved the South. I really did. I loved it. If I could have been lived there forever and not have any of this happen. Ramona, you want to be on TV or you want to live happily in Atlanta? Oh, honey, I'll take that any day.

Yeah. How I saw the racism was that, um, I was like, listen, there was nobody going to outshine me. Like when it came to like selling stuff, you know, like the PTA mom, my daughter came, my son came home. He had to sell all this shit. I fucking rocked it. I killed it. I sold everything to everybody we knew. They were so nice on the recording back in the day. You had the recordings on the home phone. Hi Ramon. I'm so happy you won you this you that you're great the minute I call back and she heard that Yankee accent oh it was downhill

they didn't like me so I got a little bit taste of the south even though Atlanta is the melting pot that town is ran by old money yeah and um once they got you know my new york accent and they're like so that's where i first discovered that the second thing when my son came home he said what's this a little he goes what's i said what did you say because his last name was arabic and they considered them i said i had to explain something that's what i called him at school they said so where'd it come from it had to come from somebody's parents because again he was carrying the arabic last name and that's where you know this whole can't i was like oh giovanni and i you know the kid he's got an italian name with an arabic last so it was it was a lesson but that's where i knew that people would be like

different colors you know what i mean I never unless you were like black be like which I have many black friends I don't you know I always thought like somebody if they were Spanish or they were white you know what I mean it's just so different how people are like no because you're white I'm like to my friend she'll know I'm Latin so it's like how everybody looks at it's everywhere I never looked at anybody as a true color. Yeah. Unless it was like actually said out loud. I never really. So in the South. That's what it was about.

But. I guess because my husband was light. You know. They could never really say anything. Like as far as like. You know. They never. You know.

Yeah. Shamed you. Where. Like they're having like an interracial child. Right. Gotcha. It wasn't like you know. A mixed baby.

Like. You know. You can never come home and date a black guy i'm like can i just date whoever the fuck i want to date yeah it wasn't my father would find out if i was doing something on him like say on the weekend by tuesday as as much hush hush we thought we would you know keep it he would find out i've had friends you know tell me that your father cheeses never came home and told me um some guy that i thought it was cool to like have in my sweet 16 he was you know we were together like dating you know i wasn't even having sex then nothing my father chased the guy down in the mall with the hammer but i didn't know about it you know what i'm saying so it's like again with the double lives then i'm like seeing this other guy he's's like, when I'm older, he's like so hot. I had to break it off with him because somebody lived on the block that knew

my father. So it was like, cause I could never say where I truly was. Right. So I was just like, I wasn't, I never, I was the type of girl that I never wanted to do drugs because I saw,

you know, my family, there were alcoholism in it. My uncle would drink. My aunt would drink once in a while. My uncle went through the other situation on the other side of the family with there were alcoholism in it. My uncle would drink, my aunt would drink once in a while. My uncle went through the other situation on the other side of the family with the, um, the drug. So I knew to always stay away from that. Yeah. So when I went out, I wasn't like that type of partier. I just wanted to go out and be free. Yeah. You know what I mean? And just have

a good time and not be somebody's daughter, somebody's granddaughter, somebody's niece. I just wanted to be like everybody else but it was very hard for us because new york was ran by a lot of uh mlb so speaking of mlb let's talk about how you got integrated into the whole mob wives thing and like take me on that journey with you because you're just coming home just coming home i was asked to do with the first year i had her i had any client then came when these other girls got wind of it holy shit you gotta think like oh my god that you know the devil was coming to be on the show they didn't want it because it all came down to bunny nobody wanted to share with another girl like you know how it went on

um atlanta housewives you get a peach yeah they don't want nobody else on the show karen was down for it so they had a meeting among the minds and with you know with some of the producers they didn't want you on the show no okay some of the girls didn't and mind you one of these girls in particular when i did come home i was partying with her there was no qualms then but when it was like we're gonna put ramona on the show which one who is it her name starts with a d okay yeah starts with a d she didn't want me on the show and how i knew about it was because caller who was very close with her because she like they had a relationship because caller's father-in-law delivered drita's baby so caller after her and drita had a falling out came and

told us what was taking place and she said she didn she didn't want you there. She goes, I didn't know any better because I was just, you know, following the code. She was my friend. So long story short, I became on the show. And oh, my God, like we were just cool last week now. But again, you're not going to abuse Karen in front of me. Right. That was that was a crazy, iconic episode, though. Your mouth bleeding and you just literally scream like

i you would put the fear of god in anybody trying to get to her because it was just it was just like you know what scared of who who are we who are we supposed to be scared of right like you know what i'm saying like you know i had my sister's ex-boyfriend wasn't really a tough kid you know he went she went to jail for murder you know why he punched sister's ex-boyfriend wasn't really a tough kid you know he went to went to jail for murder you know why he punched somebody had a fight punched somebody the kid went down and he died because he hit his head anybody's tough in their own sense right just you know what i mean the quietest person in the room could be the toughest right you know what i'm saying i'm not into all that rah-rah shit but if that you're selling yourself as a character cool nobody's saying you didn't have your your brawls back in the day fine but a lot of that stuff it was a real shit show yeah I feel

like there's a lot of anim it's sad because you know you guys were so iconic and just that was a moment in time that was just like that was really amazing tv it was unscripted it was real raw emotions like you could tell you guys really had history and like, I don't want to say beef, but just like unresolved shit that you guys all brought to the table and it just played out on TV. And that's what made for such great TV.

And I think it's so sad now because there's such a rift between you guys. You know, as far as the rift is concerned, if you really think about it if it wasn't for that show none of these people would be hanging out and they didn't they hung out when they were younger they had a past like for example Dorita was like my sister's friend and Karen's friend I really didn't associate so much with them but that taught me it was my boyfriend mode but the whole thing is like you know when you sign up for this they put you in

these scenarios that's why like I said when I watch your stuff it's real because nobody's scripting it they're not putting you they're not putting you bunny with the neighbor that you never would talk to right because they've signed on for the show right you know i can handle anything that's thrown to me but sometimes it's like they had you to a degree faking it's a you know just funk it's a fake it however the fuck you say it it was just like i was dumbfounded i was like wait what like one time when i was on the show and they're like where's ramona i just signed up for the show they're like where's ramona karen's like oh i don't know she'll be back later karen didn't want to say where it was i was fucking getting arrested with my boyfriend at the time my fiance and so now we have to reenact this because obviously when this takes place because nobody

everybody doesn't know it's not like big Brother that the cameras are in your house. Yeah. So they're like, and I love him and I get it. And Adam, he's so great. He didn't. Now he understands us. But when he was first working with us, he's like, who's Adam? Is he the producer?

Adam. Love you, Adam. He is the producer of the show. And he's like, come on, boo boo. You know, you were crying. I was like, I wasn't fucking crying. Then I'm thinking to myself, like I, after I went home, after doing the the scene because we had to reenact it I'm like is there something wrong with me because I didn't cry because they wanted me to call Karen she's like no you were crying go

no I wasn't and Karen's like well how would you do it she'd be like call me you know come here now I want to see you we would never talk on the phone yeah I would never never give it like I was arrested I would never say anything in general that's how we were brought up so when that happened so a lot of things on the show like they put you in scenarios that you wouldn't be a part of right like the whole thing with karen and lee it was dead but it made good tv so now you're bringing these two you're pitting bringing up old wounds and up old wounds. And it's getting worse. Yeah. And then, you know, he has a disgusting mouth, her husband,

and he said a lot of bad things about Karen that, yo, dude, when you broke up with her, you just wanted to go your own way. It was what it was. Everybody went in peace. Now you're calling her all these things. You're calling her, you're calling her daughter. Like, we don't do that. Yeah.

And it was sad. It was sad. It was a lot of sad things. You know, on the show, I made up a treat. We were cool. order like we don't do that yeah and it was sad it was sad it was a lot of sad things you know on the show made up retreated we were cool then one time her and kala had it like and then we were all like coming together to see if we could have certain things that when we want to renegotiate the contract and all the bullshit and i thought we were cool and i just retweeted something that karla said and she blocked me from them.

So I'm just like, did I forget to send you a Ramadan card? Because, you know, she's Muslim. Did I forget to like. Who's Muslim? Greta. Oh, wow. Did I forget to like, you know, say something to you that I, you know what I mean? Like, what did I do to you?

Right. But it was because of that. So and again, she was just looking for a way to like separate. You know what i mean and again nobody was ever trying to flex you know who they were on the show because when they did have this meeting they said so if we're gonna have the show and this is gonna be the name of it this girl deserves to be here more than any of yous because like i told you my grandfather who was with karen's father that's on my father's side. Then you have my real grandfather from the Donnie Brosco movie.

Yeah. I'm dating somebody that obviously just made the news and we were going to get him married on TV, but you know, he was in the life and you know, everything that took place. My uncle died. Like there were real issues that took place, but I was never like that. Like not that like I, if we could all do something together make money what the why the hell not it came a lot of jealousy and i see that what other maybe housewife shows but other housewife shows had amazing management amazing that these women's are making

bank nobody walked off the show rich nobody helped you guys it was just kind of like they just i don't want to you know i'll use the term loosely but it was almost like they just used you guys it was just kind of like they just i don't want to you know i'll use the term loosely but it was almost like they just used you guys for views well i mean you're in the industry now there's no way that you could be a manager and be a producer of the show right double dipping that's what we were up against so even though your manager doesn't your manager get you deals and she's entitled to it so whatever i brought in it was like being an escort i had to give it to you no matter what. And then at the end of it, what we found out, me and Karen,

that Drita and Carla had fired the management team, which was producer Jennifer Graziano, and we're supposed to be child of a friend. So they're not paying you, but us struggling moms are paying you. So Drita's even making more money. Carla's even making more money because they're not giving paying you. Wow. So Drita's even making more money. Carl is even making more money because they're not giving to. When I was supposed to do the third season, I was supposed to get a raise and you were supposed to negotiate for me being like in the opening, but you couldn't because it cost too much money because that would come out of your pocket.

And then later on- There's lots of shady business. A lot of shady business. Wow. A lot of shady business. And it got a little ugly for a minute when it, like, certain things took place when, you know, we quit or, in my terms, I made sure that I got fired because there was a different clause in it because, but it winds up, in a sense, like, if I would have gotten

fired, if I would have quit, then there were certain things I couldn't do, but they still blocked me on VH1 because that's where I was supposed to do something with the girl Toni from BMF. Wow. And she told me, she goes, you're black, bald, and on VH1. She goes, an MTV, because I sold, I signed, I don't know what I was signing.

I signed over my likelihood. Right. So I couldn't be on any other show, even though I was still part of dating somebody incarcerated because that's what the new BMF show was about. It was about all these women coming together and dating men. And I made a relationship with these girls. So I said, forget it. You know, whatever took place with the show and it was bad blood, but nobody walked away rich. Not like it was, it was, I made more money with my family staying home, my family giving me opposed to what

I did on the show. So as much as I had issues with my family staying home my family giving me opposed to what i did on the show so as much as i had issues with my family being strict they really came through with everything else so it's like you know what i mean so i was kind of very grateful yeah you know do i um did i raise my children differently yes they need to know the truth i'd never want them to be blindsided i always told them if there's anything you want to ask me, ask me, um, whatever you're into, God forbid you get into trouble. Let me know. I'm always going to be, I'm going to yell. Yeah. Cause that's just what I do, but I'm always going to have your back. That's how I am with our daughter. I'm just like, tell me before I find out from somebody else,

because if I find out from somebody else, you're in trouble. If I find out from you, you have a chance, you know, you could save them because they're, you know, you're young. I don't, I want somebody to have my back. Cause I was was always very sneaky i had to grow up to be that way because it was either that or have a boring childhood yeah i wasn't you know what i mean like i don't i wanted it i want and i'm glad that i got to experience like going out and going to doing all these different things and there were some situations we could have got pretty hurt yeah you know god watched i think that's part of growing up though yeah you know god made sure that we were okay yeah but the show in so many different outlets it puts you in scenarios that you never ever would have had yourself into

like everything was a fucking party yeah like you know what i mean and alcohol heightens things and i'm sure you know ego ego was the biggest thing yeah ego. Ego, alcohol, fucking all of it. I remember I was like, I wasn't being a key. I was being a keyboard warrior answering back. Because let me tell you again, when I came on the show, it was the first season, all the girls. So the way that they pitched me the second season was like the Italian Omarosa. Remember Omarosa, how she was on one of the reality shows?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Omarosa, yep. So they made me out to be like her so I'm like now I'm going up against the fan's favorite okay because this Drita is picking on my cousin so I'm not gonna stand by first of all there's no reason to fight yeah you could talk it out like this could be but now we got our egos are you know really exploding and this is what the people want and boom b, boom, bop. And I'm like, oh God, please, just let me just control this.

You gotta see how people work. This was the height of Twitter. Twitter is rough. It has a rough crowd. But to remember, this was the height of it. So my boyfriend's like, come on, we have dinner. I'm like, no. Because people like, and I'm like,

people are saying, I go, and I go, this is the reason, what I tell them in person, this is the reason why people swallow their kids. in other words they should have swallowed you while giving a blowjob your mother should have never had you yeah the freaking what he called hits me up they're like for each one you can't talk like that why not do you see what they're saying me so now you're even censoring what the hell I'm answering back in real life freaking twitter yeah you know I'm saying So now like they're watching you. That's why I won't sell our shows that I do that. My,

my production company does the bunny XO show on the meet the D Fords. Cause I, you're just, you give up so much control. Yeah. You're not going to control anything. The narrative editing is a motherfucker.

Oh, for sure. They can make a whole fucking situation that isn't even there just from sound bites of things that you guys say it's crazy well that's what they did then later on we stepped into some other um you know into the light of say this word you got to do it because they're your boss you're getting paid wow and then they would place it someplace else wow and then you know there were a lot of people like entrapment yeah like adam was on our team and he was great and he understood what was going on

but again it was just it started taking a better turn going into my second season. But then after that, that that year when we found out some stuff, I was like, I'm out. Like it was either going to be this way or that way. Yeah. And I just got a bad taste because money is a lot of time the root of all evil. It is. And that's what truly has happened. And people could say whatever they want to say.

They could go around town saying whatever they want to say i could give two shits because my listen i was very grateful because i got to support my children but what people don't understand with or without mob wives i still made it like i the point of making it is i got to raise my children yeah i got to you got to be i live better than i lived before a present so what you know it got to be where one time i remember re, she's like, with the Twitter, again with the fucking Twitter. She's like. Renee is hilarious.

My sister. And like, she, we, she apologized. We worked things out. Listen, you know, when you speak to her, like she has always have a soft spot, soft spot in my heart because when my wife started, nobody had money like that. Ask her who gave her money to go to Vegas to, when you went to california to go to show i handed her money the poor girl that just came back had nothing who was taking the nail polish off your toes because you had to go and to get yourself clean i wanted her to get better so with or without the show she'll always hold us you know

a soft spot in my heart we didn't speak to for each other for a while because she didn't know certain things. And when she got privy to it, things got better. But one time she tweeted, she's like, yeah, my sister's fed you. I said, well, we'll back up the bus, baby. The only people that ever fed me

was my mother's tit and maybe a boyfriend. Other than that, I've always fed myself. I've been working since I'm 14 years old. That was another thing. You know, everybody thinks like, oh my God, the mob.

My parents made us work. Karen worked. I worked. We was another thing. You know, everybody thinks like, oh my God, the mob. My parents made us work. Karen worked. I worked. We weren't like, you know, like... Spoiled. We weren't like a... Trust fund babies. A mellow soprano.

Yeah. Some people are. Renee never worked. So throughout this lifestyle, there's different ways that you handle in your house. My house was very strict. My house, we never discussed the word mob. I had to get a

job. Karen's house wasn't as strict, but she had to get a job. Like, you know, they wanted those foundation. And I, you know, much as my father, I thank him for that because if I didn't, maybe I'd be lost. Poor Renee. She really never had a steady job. She even tells me, she's like, you know, you girls, you have a business. I'm so happy for you. She doesn't have any hate in her heart, but it just, it just created a snowball of monsters. But I was very appreciative because it helped feed my children at that time. And I was fresh coming home to the second year. But if people said to me, what would you rather do? Have a business knowing you're successful or being in, you know, an everyday job that, you know, you could really like have a business. I would

pick that because this comes in a lot of shit. Yeah. And I'm not even, I'm not even like famous, famous. So imagine the people that are truly famous. You know, I've had some stalkers here and there that, you know, Karen and I, we owned a pizzeria and I'm like, we thought this guy was really coming because the stuff that he was saying, it was scary, you know, cause we're out there now. We can't like, cause when I go places places i usually say where i am after yeah not because i'm no big deal because there's weirdos well you have to yeah people but in the pizzeria we were sitting ducks yeah you know so it was different but i always said like listen these people that there's just out of their way to be mean yeah like oh the people online. Reading comments like, how does she remember?

She was a baby. Another liar. Oh my God, her voice is so nasal. No shit, Sherlock. I'm supposed to get my fucking nose done because I have my nose

inside this old cave. I think it gives you character though. No, but I love my nose. That's the whole thing. I want to find a person that is not going to change my nose.

But inside, I literally, I was there the other day. He's like, how do you breathe? I go, this is what I'm here for. He's like, oh no, it's like literally caved. He's like, you have the smallest canal. But my point is like, yes, she's a nasal bitch.

She talks like the next, no shit. Like, what is your point? Like, why are you going out of your day to say that I don't remember something when I was nine? I totally do. I remember when I was five, when I went to jail. People on the internet are a different beast. It's bullying.

And this is why a lot of these kids- And that's why I stand up against it, because I just don't think it's right, dude. It's not right. Yeah, and especially now that mental health is such a huge topic of conversation, I really think that these platforms need to start cracking down on bullies.

It's not okay. It's not okay. It's not okay to just spew whatever the fuck you think out of your mouth that is harmful and hurtful to somebody, especially with children on the Internet. Are children supposed to be on the Internet? No, the parents should definitely govern that a lot more. But you can't literally, you know, be over your kid's shoulder. You can't because they're going to have a friend. They're going to have somebody.

They're going to get to it. Yes, exactly. So it's like I just, these platforms, I've been working with this foundation and I'm hoping to do a lot more with them, but they, you know, do a bunch of stuff for cyberbullying because it personally affected the man who runs the organization. So I just feel so strongly about it.

It's not okay what people say. And it's also about images. Like the only thing I commend Facebook about when they took away the likes, because a lot of, you know, little girls like I'm not getting that many likes or people are like feeling bad for themselves. And it's very easy. For example, like your husband's song, Save Me. To me, I don't do drugs. I don't drink, but I relate it into other ways because you could fall into depression yeah and like i have fibromyalgia so i had to step back from a lot of stuff and here i am not the girl going with all my friends to the dinners or seeing all my other friends and because i was that person

my friends range from queens to the city to all over and i was always there for everybody going out they're like where's ramona they didn understand. But with that came a sense of like depression in a way because I wasn't that same girl anymore that used to laugh and what happened to her. So it's like people don't get it how easily you could feel depressed on so many different levels. It doesn't have to be from actually substance abuse.

It could be from your inner, it could be from autoimmune. Trauma. Trauma. Well, that's what they're saying that autoimmune is caused by trauma you know how the hell did nobody in my family that i know of has fibromyalgia or neuropathy i wanted up with that's from all the stress as a child i want to go to her but i know it'd be so much pain you ever see the woman she's like she takes all the stress out of you and she

like basically like yeah it's one of those and i'm like you scream people cry yeah and she's in cali and i'm like am i ready for that but that's built up because that's opening a pandora's box too once you open that up you have to deal with everything that you start feeling too so and it's like a lot of different things that i know that i have in within me but it has to be up to me when i'm ready. You also battled an eating disorder, correct? No, I was just always chubby. Oh, no. I could have swore that we had talked about an eating disorder,

but maybe it was somebody else. No, like, you know, when I was younger, I was, you know, a little bit overweight, and I had that. But nothing like, no. Do you still battle with depression and anxiety now that you're older? Older. Do you do therapy? Because I asked Karen the same question, and she said she's never done therapy. And I was blown away by that. still battle with depression and anxiety i have my moments older do you do therapy because i asked

karen the same question and she said she's never done therapy and i was blown away by that because i was like how out of all the shit you guys have been through like i would think now in your lives like therapy would be just essential well put it to you this way when i was away in jordan my therapy was whatever i was allowed to listen to on YouTube because the music was certain degree was restricted so it was music music was my therapy that was my outlet when I was younger it was writing uh when I came home I didn't know if I was going to be in trouble to go to jail so I'm like talking to this guy and I'm like he's a therapist I'm like this is some bullshit because unless I'm really ready I can tell you whatever. Right. To make this, you know what I mean? To make this kind of like work in my favor. But I'm like, I think the therapy that I would need,

it goes back to the issues of abandonment and stuff like that. And I think I have to be fully ready. Yeah. To open those. Because it goes, you know, it goes into like a lot of other things. It's like, there's no reason why I should remember what that jail sounds like. There's no reason why I should remember like how cold it was. Again, I don't remember what I ate two days ago. You know, I do need therapy, but I also think it's really important about finding the right person. I don't know if I

trust anybody, like how I'm like, here we go back to the Sopranos. You know, he found her a lot of people. And I just feel this day and age with therapy, they're like, here's a pill. Like with fibromyalgia, here's a pill. I'm like, oh, so you want me to take Lyrica. Do you know Lyrica is for people that have seizures? It's a fucking Band-Aid. I don't need a Band-Aid, dude.

No. I need, like, if you could help me, fine. I'm not into Band-Aids. I like to keep it raw. That's why I do holistic. That's why I always do holistic um eastern medicine not western medicine because western medicine all they want to do is throw pills big farm they tried to put me on fucking blood pressure pills last year and it came down to the fact that i was allergic to

rice wow and if i had not advocated for myself and done blood work and studied and did all the shit on my own i would have been on fucking blood pressure pills you're smart as fuck i appreciate you but i just knew that it that it wasn't my blood pressure. I knew something was triggering it, you know? And you have to be your own advocate when it comes to your health. Well, this is what I, because I'll relate to you. Like, I'll go into, like, a meeting with the doctor, and he'll tell me something.

Like, I'll get the gist of it, but I'll forget. Yeah. So, like, I get all the things you're saying, and I can relate to it. But I'm like, this bitch is pointing about everything. She knows how to say all the words. She'll be like, she does. She knows her research. But like, for me, I'm all about being holistic. And it was so funny because Karen, like she, you know,

she tries to bust my balls. She'd be like, they had pizza last week. She's like, you want pizza? I was like, no. She goes, why? Because you want to be skinny because you're going on bunny. I'm like, no, jerk off. I can't eat cheese for another three weeks.

Or the gluten. Cheese. And I can't eat cheese for another three weeks. Or the gluten. Cheese. And I can't do steak right now because my cholesterol is through the roof. And I'm trying to take my blood because I'm testing it again because I don't want to go on goddamn medicine. I had an issue with my heart. This guy's putting me on everything. I'm like, for the rest of my life?

Yes, they will. And they have no problem doing it. They get paid off of it. Well, they get paid to keep you sick. No big pharma doesn't make money off healing people. So it's like, they want to keep you sick, but you have to be your own advocate. If the best thing, and this is my, everybody, all my listeners know this. I advocate for getting your own blood work done. Yes. You can go to any fucking anytime labs. They'll give you your blood work. But there's an extensive blood you have to get done. I forgot what it's called.

It's a different test. Like there's, when I had gone to this one doctor, he did more than what the regular doctor would do. I forgot what it's called again. I'm not good with all the names. All the panels. You have to do hormones. You have to do the heart.

You have to do, like they're all separate panels. And it's expensive. But it's like you have to do that unless, or you're going to be stuck taking pills. Like you have to advocate for yourself. Truly healthy in America. You need to have money. Vitamins cost a shitload of money. There are a couple of hundred a month.

It's so sad. You have to make sure that, you know, when I was scared shitless about two years ago, I thought like I was going to have a heart attack. They were going to put a stint the whole nine. He put me on cholesterol medicine. And then with new doctor i saw he goes did he ever bother to check you again he goes your cholesterol is too low get off of it and i said holy fuck and

then they're like do you make money off of this yeah so i was like you know what never again so i try to do things where i could heal myself because i'm responsible nobody else really the best thing that you can do for yourself. And it was, it was very hard for me, but I had to do an elimination diet and I haven't had sugar in over a year and it is the best thing I've ever done for my life. I'll eat gluten here and there, but I changed my entire diet last year and it was the most healing thing I've ever done. You know that, um, I put a post about this. Sugar is harder to get off than cocaine. Oh yeah. So for me, that's my issue. Coconut sugar. Coconut sugar. But again, this

is my problem about growing up when we, maybe this is what you're talking about, but the eating disorder, I knew to stay away from alcohol. I knew to stay away from drugs here. Everybody's like, if I would have known the sugar could lead to, which in my family, there's diabetes and there's, you know, all these other issues, high blood pressure. I would have known the sugar could lead to, which in my family, there's diabetes and there's, you know, all these other issues, high blood pressure. I would have stood away from it because I was so scared. But no, here's a cookie. Here's an M&M, all this other stuff.

We didn't know that. So now it's like I'm too late in the game and I'm like. No, but you're not. No, no, but you've known it. So now do I like something you said about your husband? Like somebody had said to our bed which I was commending you were like does it bother you that he drinks and he smokes and you said whenever he's ready yeah if he wants to go clean he will the same thing I'm eliminating I'm doing better choices but I know when I'm fully ready yeah it's gonna come because I know at the end if I don't I could

lose a fucking toe or go on dialysis like you don't be losing toes and i'm like i don't want to be this you know that person like here i come with you know here's grandma but she's got no toe and listen that ass with a walking chair will be hot okay wear those little body suits you'll be good bling the fucking walker out no but you just you have to be your own advocate and it's all about what you put in your body i promise you bottle years ago everything was glass yeah but now plastic plastic yep you go in the freezer it takes put shit into the water all of the sun the shit in the water but now all we can't because it's dangerous snapple was always with glass all

of a sudden the motherfuckers want plastic yeah Yeah. It's just because it's easier. Yeah. But they have to make us sick because they make the money off of it. If you know, you know. Yeah, absolutely. I can preach this all day long. We could talk about this all day long because it's like one of my favorite topics is health because you become obsessed with it.

As you get older, you realize you're not fucking immortal, you know, you you have to do things to to make sure that I think what really struck a chord was inheriting, um, custody of both of my parents as they're dying. And I got to see what they're dying, what, what my mom died from. And now I get to see what my dad is dying from. And that's a wake up call, you know, and your own health suffers from it too. And you just get to a point in life where you're like, you know what? I don't want to be like this. I want, when I'm old, I don't want to have to worry about my, you know, kid taking care of me.

I want to be able to, you know, still have a good mind and some, somewhat of like a little bit of health. So I was like, if I start now, maybe I'll be on the road to, you know, redemption by the time I'm fucking 70. Fix a couple of things that need to be restoring and just kind of get like a little bit of a clean path, you know. Yeah. It is what it is. And that was like one of the things that I find like maybe in a sense that yes,

I got fibromyalgia, I got neuropathy, but I got that like after the show. And again, it was built up trauma. And the show it maybe led me into like after that to start meditating and start making intention candles and just like doing certain things to find my peace where i'm hating is amazing that if i would have stood on that show

it never would have been because that shit was a lot of times people don't get it's like wasn't didn't end when you would just say okay everybody go home see you tomorrow yeah we all lived in the same area bunny so but then it also makes you think gee if you're really about it why don't you come ring my fucking doorbell yeah you know what I'm saying? So it was kind of like, if you were really smart, like if they really, we could have done that. Like we could have continued if this is what you want to do, but you're only going to make it so escalated when the cameras are rolling. But it was like, I, my biggest thing going on camera was like, okay, how am I going to look? And what's my outfit? Other than that, I could be myself more than 24 seven. I don't have a problem. But with that, I think after leaving it and everything

else, I don't think if I would have had all these issues going on, I could have remains. And I think I found peace after, because with the meditation, like making candles, like I have a whole company, it led me into a different direction where I'm at peace. If anybody asked me like, Hey, like this was super cool. I, I like, I'm a big fan of yours. It was awesome to do some things. I'm very selective. I have to have like, kind of like some type of feel like, okay, I could connect to it because other than that, it's like, you know, things that you saw and it was like, bring my boys back. Do you really want to see girls either in the late 40s or early 50s fist fighting yeah come on it's like grandma's a cop stop just slow it down like what could we really fight about

yeah hey we're not getting social security in a couple years like it's ridiculous but these will fight but it's ugly it's not realistic it's like when do you stop and everybody on the place like you know on, on this whole thing, if they want to talk about it, not everybody has an ailment. Well, one of these bitches have something going on. Right. So is it really normal to really, so everyone's like, I think sometimes things, they're done.

Like, just let them to rest. Let sleeping dogs lie. Like, you know, every time they do have to do a remake of this movie, just sometimes it's best keep it original. Yeah. So, you know, we appreciate the fans. Like, hey,, every time they do have to do a remake of this movie, just sometimes it's best to keep it original. Yeah. So, you know, we appreciate the fans. Like, hey, get a comeback. If certain things would go, people probably would want to make it back.

But what are you making it back for? You loved it because of the fighting. Right. You got to ask yourself, America, you really want to see old people fighting? Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Clip that, Jason. So what can we expect from you like you you uh spoke about a book or a book will definitely be coming in like i said it's all about timing yeah i can't control what god has

you know yeah people living or dying well shout out your company and stuff like um i do have a spiritual line spiritual slinger i make intention candles I have fun just like, you know, going on social media. People are so like, I do have a lot of nice fans and they're so appreciative of, you know, me just even like sometimes I'll do a charity and stuff like that. And that really like touches me. Like you want me to be a part of it? Of course I will. Because every, if we don't help each other, who's going to help you? Like we're all, we got people. This universe is one time around the ship and you don't want to be in you know the water sinking you want to be on the boat where we all could survive and people are very very slow and mean to help like if you want someone to help

it's like slow motion if i feel something is a real good cause i'm on it you give me a real good go fund i'm down for it you know i'm saying so I'm always still active on my pages I am more um in love with just watching TikTok because you people are incredible like you like you but other people like oh yeah no they're great like there's people that you don't even know I don't even know about and they have like 200 million my doors like you don't know this guy or how about the lady she's eating the foods and she's the sounds of the emoji like wild shit no it's crazy there are so many nooks and crannies of tiktok that i can't even fathom them and that was one of the reasons why they wanted to take it down because it goes in every area it goes in hell it's universal it goes in every and then you're like shit they're learning this shit China. I'll be scrolling and there'll be people in like the Middle East somewhere sleeping in

sleeping bags. And fucking another thing is like a bunch of like Indians with face paint and like tribal stuff and like doing a fricking rain dance. And you're like, wow, is this real? Like you only read about this in your history books. It's wild. No, it's crazy. So I'm like, I like some, I'm like me and my friends, like you have to do more and people love you. I'm crazy so I'm like I like some I'm like me my friends like you have to do

more and people love you I'm like I'm like so amazed I'm like no I'm like scrolling through this shit like I can't compete with this this is wild yeah but you just being you I told Karen that too I was like you guys have to get on TikTok because you guys I am but not to like like I said I do do it right but I know you like you're like you have it like it's a it's a business it's a business and that's what I'm like because there's a lot people don're like you have it like it's a it's a business. It's a business. And that's what I'm like, because there's a lot people don't realize you have to be a talent. You have to have perfect editing and you have to have content.

And that's why, like my hats, I totally tip them for everyone because I'm like this one girl like she could cook. And I'm like, but then you have to get with the right person to edit. And I'm like, it's wild. Yeah, it's a fascinating world. Like I like it more than Instagram because it's like not censored. Like they'll give you so much more. Instagram is my lowest platform.

I don't even, I only deal with Instagram because I've had it for so long, but like TikTok is my jam. Facebook is my jam. Instagram. I just feel like we're so under the thumb there. You can't do it. I literally got a report on Twitter yesterday.

But see, they don't censor you on Facebook because Instagram and Facebook are the same people. So they ish, the thumb there you can't do it i literally got a report on twitter yesterday facebook but see they don't send to you on facebook because instagram and facebook are the same people so they ish they do but not as bad as instagram like yesterday i reposted somebody's story about how they like put cayenne pepper in their in their husband's lube because they caught him cheating they flagged that and took it for hate speech and i'm like how is that hate speech when she's just speaking about you know like it's just and then you're at their mercy because if you get a certain amount of flags yep they'll take your account and then you can't like and my account's been taken twice before imagine it's not by a hacker it's by the actual company yeah no crazy it's crazy Ramona it's been so nice just sitting

here I feel like I could talk to you forever. Well, I probably could tell you more about your life than, you know, you know, because I'm a bunny stalker. Like, I just love the shit out of her. I love you. It's amazing. Like the whole the whole thing and how you sat there and you just like make the whole family work. And that was another thing, too.

Like, I have a stepdaughter that I took when she was 13. And that was really hard. Wow. And, you know, she became very successful. She became a lawyer. Her mom, her mom told her, she said, if you wanted to go to Disney World, the girl, her mom was very religious, and she wanted to join basketball. She wasn't allowed to wear shorts.

She wanted to do this. I said, can I take her? Now, mind you, fresh with a little baby. I'm 26 years old. I have a little baby. She's 13, so there's only 13 years apart from my stepdaughter. She's like, can I take her to Disney? Ramona, if you take her, you keep her.

If I take her to Disney, I got to keep her? So I kept her. So I started my marriage with a little baby and a 13-year-old. That was a shit show. Because it was like kind of breaking her out of the curses that she stepped into with her mom. And one of the things was bringing that trauma into the house. And then, you know, what she would get away with her mom, you know,

being sick all the time and not going to school. Then we had a cutting episode. It was a lot. It was a lot that went on. But again, I knock on wood because I always tell her. And not like trying to gloat, but I'll be like, I'm one of the reasons why you became a lawyer. Not only did she become a lawyer she worked yeah for acs which is for children's advocating

for children's had then had a top position with the courts right under the judge now went back to acs to help kids again so to me like i was put there to help her you were her because she had no outlet now she's advocating yes she. The kid had no outlet. Her mother was one way or the highway. And at the end, it's like now she's going through her own type of trauma. And again, she was a kid that went through therapy and I knew she was working it. But again, she had to do what she needed to do. Now does she need therapy because she's going through her own divorce? I don't push her. I make her do what she needs to do because I feel like if you push it,

that's why I said you have to be ready for therapy. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And you have to be very selective. And therapy's not for everybody. Because also, too, he could be half a kook. Yeah. You got to make sure that you get the right people. Like, it's sad to say you have to do your homework.

No, some of the craziest humans become psychiatrists. And then also, too, it's like, what makes you better to tell me about me? Like, not even being defensive. Like people don't really realize if they were in your shoes, what they would do. Yeah. No, it's accurate. You know what I mean? Like for me, they're like, well, you really were going to get married to a man in jail at that time I was, and we were going to have it like kind of televised in a way, because at that moment I was in true love and it was meant to be like, we did the whole thing on the show. Like we went to go see the catering hall and all the,

but certain things real life took place between him and I, and I didn't do the show the next season. So it never happened. But like people always want to look like you, like you got 10 heads, but you wouldn't even know how to operate these heads. If you're on this body, couldn't walk a mile in the shoes.

Yeah. Ramona, why don't you tell people where they can find you online? Um, Ramona Rizzo on Instagram the real Ramona on Rizzo on TikTok and that's about it thank you so much for coming on today your story is amazing and I just hope that everybody in this series that everybody can see that you guys are like real women behind the drama and that you know everybody loved

Mob Wives and I thought that was cool, but I'm, I'm really hoping that everybody takes away little bits and pieces of you guys' stories and just falls in love with you even more. Yeah. Just follow the, you know, if you want to be fashionable, think of his aesthetic, but trust me, nobody wants the Mob Wife life. It's nothing but a box of tissues and a lot of prison visits and heartache. Nobody wants it. And a lot of wasted money because the money that you made, you got to give it back to lawyers and you lose. Nothing is more precious than time. You know, nothing. So people like, I want to be with a gangster. No, you don't. It's a waste. It's a waste of a life. Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree. Thank you so much. I appreciate

you. Love coming. You're going to have to come back and visit me when you write that book. Sure. I will alright I'll get it to your girlfriend alright thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde

I will see you guys next week bye