Dumb Blonde - TBT: Melissa Etheridge - I'm Not Broken

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

Throwback ThursdayBunnie sits down with rock icon Melissa Etheridge for one of the most powerful conversations of the season. Melissa opens up about her Midwest beginnings, her rise from family “black sheep” to certified GOAT, and the journey from Berklee College of Music to landing her first deal with Island Records.She gets candid about coming out in a world that wasn’t ready, choosing authenticity over expectations, and breaking generational patterns with grit and grace. Melissa also reflects on the devastating loss of her son Beckett to opioid addiction, her 20-year fight as a breast cancer survivor, and the beautiful love story that led her to her wife, Linda.Plus, she gives Bunnie a behind-the-scenes look at her new Paramount docuseries I’m Not Broken, where she brings hope, healing, and music to the women of Topeka Correctional Facility.Raw, inspiring, and unforgettable — this is Melissa Etheridge like you’ve never heard her.Melissa Etheridge: Website | I'm Not BrokenWatch Full Episodes & More:YouTubeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Bernie. is this thing on what's up babies today we have a rock and roll angel in the house and i am so honored to have miss melissa ethridge in the house baby yay how are you doing i am fantastic dude i never thought this is like a dream come true i just have to tell you i don't think you realize how many nights i took my clothes off to your music I'm telling you, man. Yes. When I was in the strip club, you were my jam on the stage, baby.

My crew used to go. We do a show if we had a night off. They would go to the strip clubs, and it would bum them out so much. Every time my songs came on, they'd be like, The boss is watching us. No, I love that. We just went to a strip club literally two weeks ago, and we went to go see male weenie boys.

That's what we call them. Yeah. Some guy comes out to a jelly roll song. I was like, son of a bitch, she totally kills everything, you know. I was like, my lady boner is gone. Lady boner is gone, dude. No, but for real, like my, because I stripped in the early 2000s, so I mean, that's, you were on fire. Thank you.

I've had fun in some strip clubs hearing my songs. I bet. Oh, my gosh, I could only imagine the type of attention you got. There's so much I want to talk to you about, and it's like I don't even know where to start. So let's kind of start with your childhood. I know that you wrote a book, you know, regarding, like an autobiography regarding your childhood and growing up and stuff like that. But for the listeners at home who haven't gotten to read that book yet, let's kind of deep dive a little bit into where you came from and what made you who you are. Oh, okay.

I feel like everybody's childhood kind of puts them on a trajectory of where they're going to go in life. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's where you get like acceptance and appreciation, no matter what happened in your childhood, that it really made who you are today. And that's myself. I grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in Kansas. I grew up in Leavenworth, Kansas, which was a larger town in Leavenworth, but a very small town anywhere in the world. And it had a prison there, and that's what we're kind of famous for. It actually had five prisons there. I always loved music. I don't remember not ever loving music. My sister was older than me.

She played records. My parents played a lot of records. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so I had the great radio and the great rock and roll. And we had a station in Kansas City. It was, we could hear it in Leavenworth that used to play everything. It would play country music. I could hear Tammy Wynette.

Then I could hear Marvin Gay. then I can hear Led Zeppelin, then I could hear some pop song. And it was truly top 40 radio from everywhere. So I just had all this influx of great music, loved it. My father brought a guitar home when I was 12. No, I was 8. My sister was 12.

He brought it home for her. And I was like, but, you know, I loved the Archies. I used to pretend I was Reggie. And, you know, and they finally let me play, even though they said I was too young. and my fingers would bleed, and they did bleed, but I kept playing at eight years old. And then when I was 11, I went to a talent show in the plaza, sang actually a song that I had written, a very folksy kind of song.

Did you always write music? Like, start, was that? I did. Just from the start. Just as a kid, I started writing music. I understood it, to me, from the music I'd heard, from the Bob Dylan's to the Paul Simons to Joni Mitchell's, these artists that I was getting in my childhood, that if you wanted to reach people with your music, you became the whole thing. You wrote songs about your life. That's just how I understood it. I feel like that's a real musician, though. The people that you grew up on that I grew up on also, they were real musicians. They poured their heart out through their

pens. Yeah, that's how I understood it. And when I was hearing a song, I was like, yes, that's, that's where I wanted to go. And so I always started writing. And my first songs were very childish and very, you know, copying what I had heard and, you know, what was out there. But I loved it. And through this talent show, I was in a variety show. And it, we performed in the prisons and no folks homes and stuff like that, but through that I got with a band. There was just a country band in town called Chuck Hammer Smith and the Wranglers, you know, and I sang Tammy Wynette songs. How old were you? Twelve. Oh, my goodness. Twelve. Twelve, thirteen. And then from 12 to 17, I played in real bands. I went from that to a band in Kansas City where I fronted

it with like four guys. They taught me how to play the organ, the keyboards. They taught me how to play drums. Wow. Just because I was just, you know, hey, how do you do that? And I was that age, you know, I was 14, 15, 16. And I sang all, you know, the pop songs. And I made money every weekend. I had my first car that I bought at 14. That's insane. I mean, I wasn't wealthy, but I, you know, I was, I had my own money as a child. But you had that drive to just, well, I loved it. Where do you think that drive came from? Because I have heard you be very vocal about your relationship with your mother. Yeah. Can we dive into that a little bit? Where do you to dad stand in that situation? And then also we have some uncomfortable stuff with a sister, too.

Oh, yeah. So. Sorry. Please let everyone know that's the dog. Okay. I grew up in the Midwest in the 60s and 70s. And I was a child in the 60s. And it's so hard to explain now what it was like back then and especially in the Midwest my parents they grew up in my father grew up in poverty he grew up as a migrant farmer his father was an alcoholic and you know he pictures of him as a child with you know it looks like the dirt you know the dust bowl that was my father's life and he had someone help him in his high school he was very athletic and so they got him a scholarship to a college and that was the only reason he got out of that and he became a teacher and a high school coach yeah and he was a he was that guy he was supremely nice he

cared about people he was fun he taught me how to you know hit a ball and run around and and um my mother she grew up in uh well her father was an insurance salesman kind of guy so she she she wasn't poverty but she was lower income trying to be more and she went to college because that's where you find husbands no Met my father. Ladies and gentlemen, that's where you find husbands. Yeah, right. Exactly. Back in, you know, the 50s, that's what you did. Yeah. But she was extremely intelligent and, you know, loved books, loved, was sort of trapped in this life. And at, she, she didn't know how to raise children. But when I was three, she got a job as a secretary. And in the 60s, quickly became, like, you remember the movie,

hidden figures, the women that, no, they, it's these women that actually did all the work in early computing and how, and they would run the computers. And she did it for the army. There was an army base right there in Leavenworth. And then the generals would take all the credit and pay her half what anybody else has been. It was just, and she, she became very bitter. That's amazing. I'm so sorry. No, she became very bitter. She, she would drink at night. she became bitter yeah just for just for because her intelligence that she was trying to get out there she would work for the the army in war games and scenarios and they would kind of probably put her down and yes and they would take her yeah i mean yeah just back then women didn't work and they weren't

the smart ones so the men had to take all the credit i also feel that people who have higher intellect like that for some reason they always try to mask in other ways like it's almost like their intelligence is just too much for them to carry. Yeah. My husband's sister is like that. And they don't have any fun in life. And she just didn't. And, you know, now as a grown-up and a mother myself, I'm like, oh, she did the best she could. And, you know, but at the time, you as a child, you take it personally. You think, oh, she doesn't love me because I'm not lovable. You internalize that. Yeah. And so I internalize that, as did my older sister, and she did it in a different way. She lashed out. She was the bad child.

She was and just was always in trouble and angry at the world and did take it out on me and took it out in different ways physically, sexually, just all for a couple years when I was looking for, you know, acceptance and love of some kind and, you know. Were those things happening to her? This I don't know. You know, I asked her once. I did after I grew up. I said, you know, is this something that. happened to you and she said that she did she said when she was five years old that the boy across the street but she said but I don't think of it as abuse because I

liked it and I think she took that on for the rest of her life sort of and became very you know powerful yeah in a weird way you know because it was kind of like she turned her pain into something, you know, that helped her deal with it. And we lived very different lives. Yeah. And she's... How do you, how is your relationship with your sister now? Because going through physical and sexual abuse with a, you know, a sister, it's like,

how is that bond? Were you guys able to be able to look past that? Or has it always just been? No, I was, I enabled for a while. I mean, I love my family. And you might know, when you make a lot of money all of a sudden, it becomes very weird with your family. I've had to cut motherfuckers off left and right. Exactly.

I'm just telling you, because you want to make people happy. And back then, I thought, oh, well, if I provide this, then they'll do this. And they never do. It just doesn't. You can't do it for anyone else. It takes away their desire anyway. But my sister tried that and I had to cut everything off. And I did.

And nowadays, I think I saw her. I hadn't seen her like 17 years. And I saw her. Her daughter and I are very close. I helped her daughter out. And I'll just see her and, hey, you know, she's just a cranky old lady now as far as I know. So she embodied your mom kind of a little bit. That's exactly what happens.

You might have taken on your dad. and she took on your mom. That's exactly. It's crazy. Yeah. No, I get it. I have two sisters that I don't communicate with.

I actually just started taking care of my older sister again, just paid for like surgery for her. She's done me so wrong. And it's like I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop. Like you're being sweet now, but I can only imagine what you're going to try to sell to the tabloids next, you know?

It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah. It's wild that we even have to deal with stuff like that. Moving on from that situation, you started playing in bars when you were 12 years old. what in the hell? Like I know it was a different era back then. I feel like the era of like the, I wasn't around the 70s,

but the 80s, the 90s, and even the 2000s, was such a fucking cool time. Like right? Compared to now, I feel like everybody's offended about everything. Like you can't fucking say anything. Like I just feel like back then was just like such a more lax era, I guess you could say. It was more magical, it almost felt like, you know?

There was a lot of magic. Yes. sometimes I look back and my wife will laugh when I say I was playing a prison and I showed her a picture of the whole act that went in there with me

I sang but we had dancers and you know comedians and you know acrobat people you know and they were all in completely inappropriate outfits in the 60s right going into a prison right so

that was that now the bars my father would go with me every single time every I was never without my father so dad was like a constant figure in your life constant that's amazing he didn't drink he would go he would sit there with a coke and just and he would listen and then he would help me carry my equipment out and he was I I think he liked it because we would go every Friday and Saturday night every weekend and I think the marriage was maybe a little because she was having you know hard time and it was a very peaceful time for him and I we would really enjoy each other's company and just and he would go sit and listen and he he he wasn't one that like critiqued me and he didn't also wow you're really good or anything like that he

just he just he just knew it was something that made you happy absolutely and he just supported it yeah that's amazing that's really cool um with that situation that that was going on with your mom, too, just circling back to that. How did you not internalize your mom's anger and pain? Like, how did you avoid that? Do you think your relationship with your father helped you to not internalize it? Hmm. Because I know how it is to be around people with depression, and sometimes it's very easy to soak up their energy, too. Yeah, well, I got out of there as fast as I could, you know, when I was 18. Like, I graduated high school, and I went to college for a minute. Berkeley College, right? Not just anybody can get into Berkeley College, by the way.

Well, it's true. That's true back then. But I didn't go for very long. I only went for a few months because I wanted to sing and play. And I'd already been playing and making music. So I just found a restaurant that had a lounge in it that I could go play and I could make money and work on my dream. I really was not a kind of girl that was sit there. It was not a studious musician. No. I feel like musicians, you have to be creative. You can. You can't just be put. There are some who can do that, but the majority, you're creative. You can't be, like, stifled by a classroom. No, it was great. The minute they would tell me, you have to do the, this note has to come after that. I'm like, it does not. It's music. What do you say? Yeah. There has to do this. But that was a, it was more of a jazz-based thing, and that's a whole different mindset. So, I've got to be honest. I've never been a huge pajama person because most of them either feel stiff, too hot, or they twist it up while I'm sleeping. I just want something soft, breathable,

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us with a dream, an idea, and maybe just a little chaos. It makes turning your vision into reality simple, whether you're selling merch, booking services, or creating something completely new. So if That dream's been sitting in the back of your mind, this is your sign. Shopify is the push that turns someday into right now. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. And 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. If BunnyXO.com feels easy to shop, that's all Shopify. I'm just here picking the cute stuff.

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turn those dreams into and give them the best shot of success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash bunny. Go to Shopify.com slash b-un-n-n-I-E Shopify. But even to get accepted into Berkeley, like that's a huge feat. That just goes to show what kind of musician you are, though, because like I think they said that it's like a 54% acceptance rate to even get into there now. Wow, that's amazing. That's great.

Back then, it wasn't like that. It was brand new, but, you know, it's all good. And it is a very good school. And I actually got an honorary doctorate from them. So it really pisses the rest of my family off. I love it. The wild child gets the doctorate. I love that.

The black sheep turns into the goat. There you go. There you go. I've never heard that. No, that's why I love it. I stole it. It was a meme. It was a meme and I was like, I relate. So I just stole it. How did you define your sound? Because you have such a raspy, just bluesy, just, your voice is just so amazing.

Well, I sang from the time I was 13. Yeah. Did you have that bluesiness and that rasp even at 13? Well, I played in country bands first. Even though I didn't, that wasn't my first choice of music. I listened a lot, a lot to it. You know, your classic stuff. But I would sing all those songs. And they're all very throaty, very full, you know, the Tammy, Wynette, and even Linda Ronstadt, that's sort of singing like that. And I'd listen to Gladys Knight. I'd listen to Aretha. And I'm like, you've got to sing from here. And I guess I've always sort of had this voice because I do remember the choir teacher. I also went to, I'd go playing the bars and then I'd go to church on Sunday. I love that. That's what we do. Rock and roll

angel, baby. There you go. And, but I would sing in the choir and she used to put me in the very back because she'd say, I'd have the weirdest voice. Oh. So, so it's kind of, it's a good thing, no. It's good. I'm very grateful for my voice. But I think it's, I bet she'd fucking ate shit when she saw you winning Grammy. There's been a few, though. There's been a whole, I've got many of those. I'm good there. but it's it's just something that has developed and I've worked on it and it's sort of a week it sounds like I drink a lot of whiskey and smoke a bunch of sick you know I love it I write like that I've written songs and I'm smoking cigarettes and drinking with but I don't yeah I never did did you maintain your sobriety even all through alcohol was never a

childhood with me I one because I saw my mom right and I saw my father who didn't drink and I said, I want to be like dad. I just, that's, I, I tend to think that children go where it's warm, you know, and, and that was warm, and, and, and, and, and I'd play at 13, 40, 50, and I'd see these people get drunk, and I'm like, well, that's stupid, you know. And nothing attractive about it. It held nothing attractive. I'd see people get all sloppy and stuff at the end of the night, and fights, oh, my God,

you know, beer bottles throwing and hiding behind the organs so the chairs don't get you, you know, I saw a lot. I could only imagine at such a young age, and the bars back then were just crazy. Yes. They were not very politically correct. Oh, no, there's nothing like that about there. But again, I always felt safe. My father was there every single night.

I love that. We love Dad. Is Dad still alive? No, I lost Dad at 30. It was really, really difficult. Oh, my God. I just lost my dad in May, so I can only imagine how that goes. Yeah, it's brutal.

But they're always here. Yeah. He's been there. 30 years he's been there. For sure. I've never seen more fucking butterflies. I'm like, Bill, I get the damn point. I got it. I got it. There you are. I know you're here.

So moving on from Berkeley. How old are you then when you start like venturing out and you got your first record deal when? Because I know you dropped your first album in 1988. Yeah. When was the space in between there that you got signed? So I finally, I went back to Kansas after Boston, made enough money, played at a restaurant, Granada Royal Home Tell, played in the lounge, made enough money buy a car, got a car, drove to Los Angeles in 1982, so I was 21 years old. And L.A. in the 80s was magnificent.

It was great. Tell me about it. Tell me about it. Because I got to grow up with the Hollywood too in the 80s and the 90s. And it was like so, you know, as a child, seeing that. It was a drama queen's heaven. It was theater. It was, we're going to wear our hair so weird. We're going to try to do everything weird and against until it became the style, you know, until everyone's doing it, you know. I remember. That's where they got the nickname Holly weird.

Yes. You know, we would shave the side of our heads and, you know, because I went in with the lesbian crowd, you know, the gay crowd. the deep, you know, and we're just the weirdest ones ever, you know, we're, we were the first ones to go to the Salvation Armies and get the vintage clothing and stuff like that, you know, that was back when you could walk in and find amazing things that you'd think, why would someone throw this away? So we were living that, and I loved it, and I got really deeply into the whole lesbian world because I ended up playing lesbian bars. So you played like the gay circuit. Oh, yeah.

There wasn't even a gay circuit back then. Oh, okay, because I know in Vegas they had one. There was like a whole little circuit that you could go and just, they called it the fruit loop. Yeah. But it was like, they said it in the most endearing way, you know? Of course. So I didn't know if Hollywood had one of those two. No, we didn't have a fruit loop.

But we have a lot of fruits and nuts. But, no, these were just like the bars. That one was in Long Beach. I love Long Beach. Yeah. And it had just opened. but I ended up playing a place in Pasadena and Long Beach and hardly ever in LA because there wasn't a live music scene

but I had created these there they weren't looking for work I actually was there on a date and went and saw a piano in the corner and said hey you have music they said no that came with the steakhouse that used to be here but you want to play at night so they let me I created these jobs because there was nobody making money in Hollywood. Everyone was playing for free. Wow. And so I played for four years in these bars,

and I thought, how am I ever going to be signed in a lesbian bar? No one's ever going to see me. But slowly, the wife, who was a soccer coach, the girls brought her in, you've got to hear this girl. And then the wife tells the husband, who's a manager, a music manager, managed bread and whatever. He comes down, and he's like, well. and this is 1983 and he sticks with me for well we ended up working together for 30 years but he said look

I don't know what it's happening but I believe you have a great talent I think you can do this and he's he even said he goes stay in the lesbian bars I will bring the people to you you're making money right you're making a living you can pay your rent and every single record company over those four years came out to see me wow and they would they would go like Warner brothers brought out all the tables and there'd be, I don't know whether it was because they were surrounded by lesbians or what it was, but they would always know, then say, oh, we don't hear a hit and they never knew. And it wasn't until 1986, 1986. I'm playing in Long Beach. And a producer guy who had tried to get me a deal at A&M knew Chris Blackwell. Chris Blackwell owned Island Records. He discovered Bob Marley. He brought

Bob Marley to the world. He was from Jamaica. He was this eccentric, rich son of the Blackwell soups or something and Jamaican. And he brought you to Robert Palmer. He was just a great music guy. And he walked into the bar, heard four songs and said, I don't know why you're not signed and signed me right there. Just boom, just like literally on a napkin, you know. You literally paved your own way. Like you did it your way.

and your energy was so pure and so magnetic that you brought all of these straight people into lesbian bars to come and see you. That's amazing. It's fun because I've run into some of the people that came out and said no, and they were like, oh, well, we made a mistake. It was really nice to see these old white gray-haired guys

saying, oh, well, we made a mistake. When did you know that you were lesbian, like that you just were not intimate, or was it something when you grow up when you're gay and you're a kid you know you have crushes on your kindergarten teacher but you know who doesn't as a kid i think sexuality is a you know miss lenuti had a great ass come on i still remember her name see yeah yeah mine was mrs rice anyway so there we go you know and you as a child but then when the hormone stuff starts kicking in and my friends are you know looking at bobby and jimmy and i'm looking at my friends and going you know and it's i see it

today where kids know that there's more and and they are just natural in themselves and i god if i'd have had that as a child but as a child you're like okay this is the way everyone's going but i'm looking this way well that's okay you know and you just kind of go along and it it's I would get crushes on girls and it would, you know, you just want to stand next to them. I'm sure it's what guys go through, you know. It's just like, I just, I don't know what to do. I don't think of it as I'm gay. I just, and it wasn't until I was 16, you know, that best friend and that sleepover.

And there you go. I know. I had one of those too. Our daughter, actually, she, you know, they have so many terminologies now and I don't want to get into that. But she actually leans more towards being a lesbian also. And we are so, I'm like, please, please do. Like, I am so accepting of it. Our oldest engagement party tonight, marrying a lovely woman, we couldn't be happier. See, I want Bailey to do that.

Yeah, that's our Bailey. That's our daughter's name is Bailey. Oh my God, that's amazing. Yes, I did know that. If you just let it go, just let it be. Because, you know, they get their heart broke, blah. They get their heart broke either way, you know, they're going to have relationships and you just hold their hands through it.

And then they find, man, but you know when they find that one, they just, bang, they just light up. It just, yeah, it just works. Yeah, I hope that happens for R. Bailey, too. So moving forward, you get signed by Island, was it Island Records? Island Records. Yes, you get signed by Island Records. Take me on that journey.

Like, so you got signed in 86, you said? 86, okay. And then Chris Blackwell goes back into the universe of music, and I don't see him, and I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to make a record. I've never made a record, you know. You're like, well, okay, thanks for signing me. I know exactly what do I do now.

How were record deals back then? Because I know they're so different now. Like, what did they, like, offer you? Like, am I allowed to ask that? Yeah, let me see if I can remember the first one. Because I'm fascinated with the inner workings of how that is. Because, I mean, you've seen the music industry change so much. I sold 25 million albums and Island Records still say I owe them money.

Yeah. Wow. That's how bad the record coming. But they forgive. it at this point. It's like, oh, stop it. Gotcha. What do you mean? The record deals back then were crazy. Yeah, no. It's, you didn't, even

your lawyers would just go, you know, because they didn't have to sign you. They did, there was so much music. They weren't like, they were doing you a favor and you knew that. You knew that you had to get through this door or you would, it, there was. And you're pretty much signing, not, I don't want to say signing your life away, but you're signing

the rights to yourself just so that you can do. For a while so that company, will blow you up and take all the money from it, but you will get the fame. And that's, I kind of realized that. And I had a good manager who told me who said, look, you know, it's not about your records. Don't even think about that because that really doesn't exist. It's about your publishing because you write, then I can make the money from the publishing. That's, when you see an artist who doesn't write their own stuff, who is, who doesn't

really like to perform, they're not going to be around for a while because performing is your bread and butter. And that, I started, you know, I'd already been playing these bars and clubs. Then I made a record and I went out and played more bars and clubs. And then it just grew from there. And I would not trade that for the world. For the first, my first album came out in 1988. And I played everywhere. I played Europe and Australia and all these places because the first album did well. So you traveled everywhere after you dropped your album. I'm going to look at my notes real quick because there was something

really cool that I realized with these albums that you dropped. So you dropped, you know, May 2nd, 1988, you dropped your first album and then you had a hit Bring Me Some Water that was nominated for a Grammy. But then you go on to drop two more albums.

Another album gets nominated for Grammys, right? And then you win a Grammy Award. Yeah. That's insane. And your first three albums that you get a Grammy award like that's insane that really surprised me because it wasn't I didn't even get a lot of people think I won for Best New Artist but I didn't get that I wasn't even nominated for that it was back when they had a category called Best Female Rock vocal they don't have that anymore they should though I know but um first I was nominated I was nominated I was

nominated each. I've been nominated 17 times. That's crazy. But still, that's crazy. It's, it was great because my career really went from here to huge. I went from selling 60,000 albums to like almost a million after the Grammys. And because the Grammys had that large of a reach. And it was because, not because I was nominated, but because I performed. And it was a very special years, it was 1989, and Tracy Chapman performed, Shnade O'Connor performed. Oh, my goodness. I performed. My manager actually strong-armed the producers into letting, they wanted to mash all our songs up. And he said, are you kidding? This is such a strong year for women. You've got to let them have their thing. And they let us each sing our songs by ourselves. And it was really powerful Grammys.

That's amazing. I didn't win, but I performed. It's all right. You were there, baby. You had your foot in the door. We actually just just got to see Tracy Chapman at the Grammys perform with Luke Holmes. And I was like, I was, that was the highlight of my night was to get to see her perform because, you know, it's such a rarity these days. What a beautiful soul. Oh, just so good. I was just like, I was so thankful to be there in that moment because it was just really

magical. I loved it. So take me on your first tour. Like what, I remember whenever I hopped on tour with Jay in 2016, you know, it was, he, he wasn't signed or anything like that. We would work our asses off. I'm talking like we would go to like every little bar. There would be people with, there would be 20 people in a bar.

And he would perform like it was, you know, his fucking, it was like an arena full of people. What was your first tour like? Because you said you got to go everywhere and like got to go out of the country and stuff like that. Was it wild? It was wild because it was all different. In America, I was getting played on rock and roll. So I was doing the rock and roll circuit. playing the bars and clubs. It was, you know, 200 to 500 people. If I had 500, that was a lot.

Yeah. I remember in Colorado, in Boulder, Colorado, they had a great, they had a great radio station there called KBCO. Yeah. And so they were playing my songs a lot. So this was my biggest crowd. It was 500 people. And then I started open. for Bruce Hornsby, and that's a great thing for a brand new artist to get on a larger thing so I could, you know, open for them. And so all of a sudden I was playing to, you know, well, they were half empty halls, you know, when I started. But I could play those last couple numbers and people would be, you know, there'd be 3,000 people in that. So I'd learn that. Then I'd go over to Europe where my song was doing well and I'd play a thousand seat rock. Have you

gone to Europe? Not yet. We're going. Europe is so much fun because they all stand. It's all general admission. And they all clap on time. It's not the America's we're all like, you know, one, two. Man, these, they're, and they clap all four, and they all jump up and down. And it is so much fun. They love their music.

They love rock and roll. I love that. Yeah, so it was fun. So I just started and I didn't stop for eight years. and it just grew to theaters. And then before I knew it, my fourth album had come out. Yes, I am. All of a sudden, it was mainstream.

That's the one that put you in mainstream. Yeah, that was mainstream. So now I'm playing arenas and stadiums. That was the one I stripped, too. Yes. That's a good one. That was my shit. Believe me, when I start that song, the audience is, they're all, they're all in it.

I'm surprised. Well, the clothes do come off. I could only imagine how many tities you've seen to that song. Sorry, Wifee. No, she loves it. No, she loves it. She knows. She loves it. She's the most under. She's done. It's good. I'm going to stop talking. I can't wait. Well, we're going to get into how you guys met and everything, too. So I want to know all of that.

So you're out here touring. You drop this record, your mainstream. I mean, you're at the height of your career and just it's, I mean, you sang at Brad and Jen's wedding. Well, they were friends, yes. I mean, who could just say that Brad pits their friend, you know? Like, that's just crazy. met him before. What was crazy was Hollywood in the late 80s, early 90s was we didn't know. We didn't know when I'm sitting around with now, you know, Academy Award nominees and winners. And a friend of mine, Catherine Keener, she was an actress and she said, oh, I have this friend that I just did this movie with. His name's Brad. It's his birthday. Will you call him? He's a big fan of years. You know, I'm like, okay, this is before Thelman Louise. This is before anything. Yeah. Oh, back when he was really hot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. You would know. The minute I met him and I was

like, well, look at you, you know. And he was from Missouri. I love that. He was from Missouri. She said, look at you. I know. I look because I'm like, he's just beautiful. We used to have like swimming pool. I had a real fun swimming pool and I had like a basketball hoop on the swimming pool and and we all used to gather. And I mean, this is like River Phoenix. and you were just really beautiful, God, I can go on and on. How was your relationship with River? I feel like he did not get enough time here. No, no, not at all.

No, it was incredibly sad when he passed away. And, you know, they, yes, they had been, you know, there was always drugs in Hollywood, but it wasn't a mainstream thing back then. They drank a lot and we'd smoke pot, but, you know, that was about it. And when it was the cough syrup with something else he had taken, and it was so sad in Joaquin, it just, you know, died in his arms. It was just really, really sad time. And just, but it was a beautiful time in Hollywood with a lot of people that had no idea.

I mean, Ellen DeGeneres, and, you know, we're all hanging out in my pool. What I was saying, Brad's, did you and Ellen ever hook up? Didn't mean Ellen? Yeah. No, that would be gay. That's true. I love that. Do you understand what I mean?

I get it. Okay. That is hilarious. Gotcha. So you like the femmes. You like feminine women. Yes, ma'am. Okay.

She's like, yes. Do you like straight women? Is that the thing? Well, that was a problem. Yeah. That was a problem and I got over that problem. You like to turn them out. Wow.

You are. You understand my world. Well, I am you. You are me. That's exactly what. what my first 10 albums, you know. I love that. That is another thing is you've always stayed so true to yourself in the music.

Like when you would talk about relationships, it was she. It wasn't he. Whereas like, even Elton John, when he first was in the music scene, he had to sing about having a wife and Rocket Man, you know, like, and it's like, you don't have a wife, sir. I know, I told them, I said, I'm not going to, well, they said, well, as long as you don't flag wave. I don't know what that means, but what that meant then, I was like, okay. Okay, whatever.

But I said, I'm not going to pretend I'm something I'm not. I'm not going to go to red carpets and find a boyfriend. I'm doing air quotes. Right. And no, I just, I wouldn't do that. And I always wrote very universal pronouns, language, you know, that you can turn it anyway. You want, it can be. But boy, did women know that I was singing about women.

They're like, oh, nobody writes like that about a man. Do you think that that's why your album, the fourth one, I forget what it's called, it's Yes, I am. Do you think that's why it did, it resonated so well with the masses because you were just being true to who you were and people actually accepted it, which during a time when people weren't that accepting back then? No, this, it was, the gay community was strong here. And I met a lot of people in the, in the community.

A lot of the ones who were fighting for our rights, these leaders. And we were right in the middle of the AIDS epidemic, and our friends and everyone was dying. And we were like, if we don't stand up and say something, everyone's just going to be fine that we die. So there was a big, strong political feeling about being a famous person and actually saying, you were gay. It was, you know, they had outed a few and, you know, in bad ways.

Yeah, which that's horrible to ever out anybody. Yeah, it was really awful because, you know, it would in careers and it would in, you'd lose your job and all this sort of stuff. And I, I never was closeted, really, because if you knew me at all, if you met me, I'd introduce you to my girlfriend, you know, I just, there was a line, it was a serious, don't ask, don't tell in the early 90s of, we won't ask you if you're gay, and you, and you just don't talk about it. Okay. And so finally, I was at, it was the, it was the election of Bill Clinton. Yes. And Al Gore. And it really signified a time of change in America. Because we had had, God, 12 years of conservative Reagan and Bush, and it was awful.

Bill got in there and just started humping everybody. Sex came back, man. Sexy back. Yes, it was. And it, it, we felt that. And it was that night that I was like, yeah, I'm a lesbian, you know, didn't did it. And it was in the newspapers the next day. Were you scared? Like, what was that? Take me on that moment where you were just like, well, you were just ready. I was ready.

I was done pretending. Hiding. Yeah, I was done. I didn't, people were starting to ask me. This was already my fourth album. People were starting to ask me the personal questions. Who did you write this about, blah, blah. And someone actually did a article where they said they changed all the pronouns to my boyfriend.

And I was like, good. God, people are going to read this and think, and no, no, well, she's gay. Why is she saying that? And they think I lied, and that made me crazy. So my, my plan was to come out on Arsenio Hall because he was the cool, he was very cool. He was one late night host that would let me talk. And I had all, I was ready to when the album came out a few months later. But in the meantime, I did the inauguration, and I came out just in the moment. It was just the perfect, it was divine timing. So then as the, the, there was no social media. So this is. is not something that went poof but slowly as I did my you know my tour press and you you do

pre-interviews with the city you're going to city by city they would start asking me questions and for three years all I talked about was being gay because nobody would answer nobody had answered these questions right and it was just all brand new so I think it actually helped open doors me but helped my career by me coming out I got extra publicity and people were curious. I know I've heard plenty of stories of, oh, my mother never let me bring your albums into the house. You know, you were the devil or whatever. You know, I know. So there was, you know, a bit of a dampening and, you know, but who knows? I think I have a blessed career. Absolutely. But I also feel like in a way, you opened doors for other artists after you

I hope so. That were, you know, that are in the lifestyle and... I listened to Chapel Rhone. Yay! And I'm like... We love Chapel. We want Chapel on the podcast. Oh, hell yeah.

I'm like, damn. If I could have written that, if I could have, you know, good luck, babe, that's just, you know, go ahead. It's going to, you're going to have to stop the world to stop this feeling, you know. And all the songs she writes, I'm like, oh, yeah, you go, girl. You guys need to do something together. I would love to. She has named me as an influence, and because she comes from the Midwest also, and coming out and stuff.

So I know she has an appreciation. So, yeah, yeah, you see her, you let her know. Any time, anywhere. We need you and Melissa Etheridge to do a collaboration, Ms. Thing, okay? We need that to happen ASAP. I would love that. And you know what? that would actually go insanely viral because Chapel and you together. Oh my God. And their voices

together. Come on. A rock and roll pink pony club. Rock and roll pink pony club. Chapel, we need you, baby. We're saying it right here. Right here, baby. So, yeah, she said, I'm ready. She said I'm ready. So moving on from all this fame hanging out with, by the way, how is Jennifer Anderson? Are you guys still friends? I haven't talked to her in years, but the last time I saw her, she did you get her in the divorce? Did you stay with Brad or did you stay with Jen? Because I feel like everybody had to choose. It was really something. I lost contact with Brad. It's not that we chose or anything. It was just this. It was so hard for everybody because that was a really strong sort of kind of Hollywood thing. It still is. They will not. It's freaking 20 something

years later and they just don't leave it alone. That's crazy. I know. I know. It's not. I know. It's nuts. So I haven't seen, because we, it's like any friendships in, you know, your 20s and whatever, things change and you grow and you have children and you go away. But I have seen her more than I have, Brad. But she is an beautiful, incredible, delightful human being. I could never say anything. She's an Aquarius. Oh, she, well, see? Yeah. No, she's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Oh, I love that. I can't wait to meet her. Oh, yeah, she's great. So moving on from all of this, you, when do the children come into play? When do you start deciding to have children? Because I know I had heard you say that you didn't want to have kids. And that's where I

have been my entire life. And I'm almost 45. And I finally decided with my husband in this last year, I'm like, I would like a little bit of us running around, you know? And for the longest time, I felt the same way that you did. What changed that for you? The weight is over. Dive into Audubol's most anticipated collection, the best of 2025, featuring top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals across all genres. Our editors have carefully curated this year's must-listens, from brilliant hidden gems to the busiest new releases. Every title in this collection has earned its spot. This is your go-to for the absolute best in 2025 audio entertainment. Whether you love thrillers, romance, or non-fiction,

your next favorite listen awaits. Discover why there's more to imagine when you listen at audible.com slash best of the year. I don't know that. It changed. I'm really surprised that I have children. But what it was was my partner at the time. Again, growing up in the 60s, 70s, even early 80s, it wasn't an option. That was one of the reasons it was so sad to families is, oh, you'll never have children, that sort of thing. And my childhood wasn't so awesome that I thought, oh, I want to bring a child in. And my mothering mirror was not, I didn't have much mothering or nurturing. I didn't know what I would be like as a mom. So in 95, when my partner was like, I think I want to have kids.

And I was like, oh, this is very interesting. And of course, I was like, wow, I don't know what I'll be like. But if you want to have them, I'll be the guy and I'll go work and I'll bring the money home when you raise the kids, right? You know, something like that in my head. And then my daughter was born, and I'm like, oh, oh, wow, this is amazing. And instantly fell in love and realized that I was a dad mom. You know, I mothered like my father and have always been like that.

But you're also a generational curse breaker. And I think that you had your dad as a role model, absolutely. But your mom showed you everything you didn't want to be in a mom. so you broke those curses. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I was like, no, I may not have ever heard I love you, but you're going to hear it every day. You're going to, every time you leave a room, I'm going to tell you, I love you.

And every, in our family, whenever someone leaves, goes from one room to the other, it's like, I love you. It really stays, you know. I love that. And my children do not ever worry that or think that I don't love them at all in any way. Can we talk about how iconic it is that two of your kids, David Crosby. was, do we call him the sperm donor or do how, what do we refer to him as? Bailey calls her, him, her bio dad. Gotcha.

Yeah. Okay. Because the reason that we chose him, because when my partner said she wanted have children, she had been adopted and she didn't like that she didn't know who her real parents were. So she wanted her children to know who their father was. I love that, though. I totally agree with that.

And I respected that 100%. I was like, okay, but this person, I don't want them to be a father, a figure in their life. I want them to be able to go, that's where I came from. But this is the parent that raised me. And that was really important. One of the reasons that we didn't go with Brad Pitt, who was a very good friend at a time. Was that an option? That would have been amazing.

I know that's my, believe me, Bailey's like, Brad Pitt could have been my father? Are you insane? But Brad wanted children really bad. Did you imagine those jeans? Good Lord. I know. So he was only, it wasn't, anyway. Yeah. So I run into David Crosby, and him and his wife had just used, like, I'd be having different things to conceive their child.

And so they were very grateful. And Jan, his wife, said, well, what about David? And I thought, that's perfect. He's a musician. he and he has children he's iconic he's like doesn't need crosbie stills and now and young I mean and he's beautiful and I mean people didn't see the beauty that I did in him sometimes Bailey looks like him oh my gosh the cheeks it's crazy insane yeah yeah she definitely has his cheeks and so when I saw her face I was like holy yeah it's crazy isn't it and he looked

kind of like me too so I like that yeah I love that's as close as I could get And he was a wonderful, he was always there, but never, never inserted himself into their life at all, like a parent. This is kind of a personal question, and we can cut this out, but this is kind of like what I want to know, because we're planning on using a surrogate. And if we can't use my eggs, we're going to be using donor eggs. How was it bonding with the children, you know, with them not having that DNA? How was that, and we can cut this out if you want to? Oh, no, no, no, not at all. Because I just want to respect boundaries.

But how was that bonding? Let me tell you, my children are of me. They do not have a drop of my blood in them or DNA or whatever that is. But their souls, their spirit, you will find when you have this baby that when they are older, that they will look like you because they have learned. to smile and move their facial movements like you because you will have been smiling at them from the day the moment they were born so all of my children have my smile and that's so there is never there's not a there's not a moment's thought unless someone asked me that i don't think that

these children that i would step in front of a train i would you know there is no doubt and it it does not come into play ever I love that's how I feel about Bailey she's not lying biologically but like even people are like she has your mannerism she she acts like you they will laugh like you they will all of that there is not you know and I don't know physically that would be the only thing but yeah the the features the spirit how they look to you you will be mother you will always be the only mother I love it. That makes me so happy. I just wanted to ask that question because, you know, thinking about using donor eggs, you kind of like, you're just like, what if I have, you know, an issue bonding with this baby? But I mean, I don't think I would because I bonded with Jay's daughter. You know, we've had full custody of her for eight years. Yeah. She's my child. Like, I will go to war for this child. There you go. Yeah. And that's just the way in it. That's, there's not, it's not, it's nothing to do with DNA. Yeah. Thank you. I call this my meat suit. Yeah. That's it. It is our meat suit. Yeah. It's totally. Totally, I say that to everybody.

Can we move on to your son, Beckett? Yes. He was also, because you have four children total, correct? You have twins, and then you have Bailey and Beckett. Okay, so we're going to move on to Beckett. Beckett is also you with your ex-wife and David Crosby's bio-dad. What, being in the scene that you're in, and, you know, being around drugs and stuff like that and seeing how, you know, substance abuse affected your childhood,

how was that whenever your son fell into that? Oh, it was so hard. He, you'll notice that some children, just the wind is always blowing in their face, you know? It's just, it's just harder in all ways. And you see it's a lot of what they believe, and how they perceive the world. And it is never up to us to change anyone's perception, only they can do that.

So when he, and it was young, it was, you know, 12, 13, I could see his pushing against teachers and, you know, the first thing you do as a parent is, oh, this is my fault, is because he's from a broken home, it's because of, you know, and you, who knows? This is this child, and he, and he. his mountain. And we did everything we could. We, you know, I put him in, you know, outward bound classes, you know, sort of thing. And he would be okay. And then, uh, he started getting into snowboarding at, you know, 15, 16, 17. He was back in school, but it was hard to stay in school. I was trying to do different tutoring for him. And he just got really, really good

at snowboarding, you know. I knew, you know, he would, I knew he was smoking pot. I knew he was getting cocaine down the street from the rich kids. And, you know, and, and you're just trying to hold it together in a way, thinking it'll pass. And he loved snowboarding. And he's, the Aspen team starts looking at him. And he goes to train with them in Aspen. And he takes a big jump and he falls and breaks his foot in two places. And then they gave him, they gave him Vicodin for the pain, which, you know, he had, his whole dreams were broken, so his whole soul was broken. And, and he never recovered from, he never got out from the opioids. The opioids became street opioids, heroin. And last thing, when he was 21, he was during the pandemic, and it was fentanyl. It was

over, you know, boom. I couldn't imagine the heartbreak of getting that phone call and just having to deal with that. By the time you get the phone call. You're expecting it. I already went through the, okay, I'm, it's either, you know, I'm going to make myself sick now. I can't do this anymore. I can't save him. I can't, you know, I've gone through the giving him something to help him and do this,

to taking everything away so he's homeless to, you know, you do everything. and there's nothing and there's nothing and they just keep sinking down and then it's gone and there's it's there's a little bit of a relief like okay he's finally out of pain and there's some peace and you're not worried every time your phone lights up you know and so it was very hard for the last couple years and so when when you send the welfare check because I hadn't heard from him four days and I used to hear from him every single day and four days and you just know and you finally send the police and they say yeah he's dead and oh my goodness Goodness. But you move on. You do. And he would not want me to punish myself or feel guilty for some choices he made. He would, he wants me to be happy. He's in a place where he's out of pain. It's okay. I don't need to punish myself or any of that.

That was in his sole contract. I believe that. I believe in sole contracts. Not everybody does, but I do believe that before we come here, we want to learn certain types of lessons, and that was his exit strategy. And I really, truly feel like people that die from overdoses, maybe they might have gotten off the path, but that all in all was part of their sole contract. It's going back to the mother.

That's what it has been described to me, that heroin takes you back to that place, the feeling of the womb, and they want to go back. they want to go. I've never heard that. Yeah, it feels like that. Wow. That is amazing and crazy all at the same time.

Amazing. It's deep. That's very deep. Thank you for talking about that, by the way, because I know it's never. I think it helps because I know there's hundreds and thousands of families

who are suffering with it today right now. Absolutely. And if I can help someone feel better, get over, you're not sink into despair themselves, you know, then that's good. Yes. Testimonyes. Testimonys are powerful. And I feel like it also helps people realize, like, because you know you're doing this

docu-series, which we'll talk about in a second. I think it will shed light on why you're going so hard. I mean, you've been performing in prison since you were 12, too. So, I mean, it's just kind of like how your life has come full circle. But before we talk about that, can we talk about that? can we talk about how you are a breast cancer survivor yeah that is amazing and i think i heard a story of the morning of the grammies you had radiation yeah and had no hair and then you still went and performed at the grammies yeah you're a soldier you're a warrior woman i i i just i'm not ready

to give up it's it's not an option right it never has been and in this this was 2004 i'm actually 20 years cancer-free this year. Yay. Yeah. And this was after my first divorce. This was a very lost time in my life. I had had the big success and there's nothing more that's going to freak you out than actually all your dreams coming true because you're going to realize it doesn't solve all your problems. It's like, oh, I thought this would be, you know, the end. I did it. There you go. It's great. I'll be fine now from it. That's not life. Life is up and down. And I didn't have a relationship with myself. I was very sad. I was, you know, here I had become a mother and then instantly we divorced. And now I'm a single mother and I just feel like I let the world down. And it

just really weird time. And I was eating like crap. It was the end of the 90s, early 2000s where everyone thought they had to be pencil thin. And so I tortured myself. You know, it's just all this stuff that we would do until my body just said, look, I can't do it anymore. And there was a tumor on my breast, my left breast. And right before that, just months before that, I had a unintentional heroic dose of cannabis. Oh. Yeah, it's one of.

those oh let's you know let's have oh that's a real good cookie oh this is good you know and you eat three and you're only supposed to yes that intentional heroic dose that was so poetic yes that's what it was and it's one of those where your mind opens up your brain you meet god and I saw God and I understood what life was and I came back changed and then a few months later I get cancer and I'm like wow this is crazy because I didn't fear death anymore and I'm on this sort of spiritual path now and so the cancer just it happened it put it into uber drive right it just super everything changed i changed it was magnificent and i've been on this high ever since and life is so so that i'm so grateful for breast cancer and i went through it got two surgeries it was stage three they told me

you know i was always going to and i don't believe any of that i i believe that i understood what gave me to cancer and if I can make joy a priority in my life if I can eat the things that bring me joy make me feel good and and do the things and make the choices for myself that I will be able to live a healthy happy life and it's been 20 years and I think I can brag about it now yes ma'am you can you earn that right you earn those stripes I am a firm believer and I preach this on the podcast I know they're so tired of hearing it but what the mind feels the body will fall 100% the body is in reaction to the mind the mind the like I said meat suit yeah total meat suit absolutely and it I know instantly I can tell it's like oh this hurts that hurts

oh that's because you know you you get things and it's wow well I've been feeling very closed down I've been you know of course my back's going to start hurting I don't feel supported you know oh you know just all of that stuff and it makes it it makes our bodies make sense when When you have the belief that, oh, something might happen to me, I might get cancer out of nowhere. I might get heart disease out of nowhere. That's not how it works. It's stress. What you feel you'll feed.

Yes, thank you. You know it all. No, for sure. You're just on that journey. Well, I had to. I got sober and I, you know, went on, I saw the dark night and went on my spiritual journey. And I'm telling you, I just got misdiagnosed with an aneurism last month. And I told myself, like, I thought I was going to pass out when I got the news.

It said it was on my carotid artery, and my mom actually had one and almost died. So I felt like I was going to pass out. Anyways, long story short, because this isn't about me, but it's just I didn't believe it. I was like, this is not, and if I do have it, I'm going to have surgery and it's going to be fine or whatever. I was getting a cat scan. I heard the loudest voice in my head, and it said, it's not an aneurysm. Went to two neurosurgeons. It turned out that I have two identical blood vessels on both sides of my carotid artery.

that's just my part of my DNA. So I was just like, praise Jesus. You know, like it's a miracle. But you have to literally just, no matter what, I think our life lesson is to learn how to have faith. You cannot control everything. And you have to just, sometimes you have to say, you know what, God, whatever your will is going to be or whatever higher power you believe in.

You know, it's just whatever your will is, let it happen. And that has been the most exciting 20 years of my life, have been the last. When you stop trying to make your happiness dependent on other people or other things, when you can find your happiness inside yourself and you're in charge of it, oh, that's so powerful. That's so powerful. And that's the path. That's where you want to walk. That's the good stuff.

It gets really good. And you start changing the world like you have. Absolutely. You too, though. See? Look at us. When we first met you at Music Cares, I just told my husband, I was like, I love this woman. I was like, she has such amazing energy. You just have angel energy. And you can tell when people

are good humans, you know? And my husband just adores you. Like, he's like, yeah, I can't believe Molest or just my friend. Like, he's just so excited. Like, he just can't believe it. Him and you, and Bon Jovi just blow his mind. The fact that you guys, that he can call you guys friends, he's just like, this is amazing to me. He's, he's special to, and you know that. You know that. And he's got that big, wonderful heart. And, of course, as his friend, I do, I think about him a lot. And I know what a weird space it can be. And I tell him and I would tell you too, man, call me.

Just text me, no. Please do. I'm going to give you my number because I don't trust him to give it to you. Yeah, no. Yeah, I get it from you. So moving on, how did we meet Wi-Fi? Because I stumbled upon a really cool, well, it was awesome to me because I'm into astrology and all that stuff.

You guys have the same freaking birthday. Like, how, like, only two Gemini's would find love in each other. I mean, I think that's hilarious, because you guys are either exactly alike or you guys are opposite ends of the spectrum. Are you guys exactly alike? Both? Yeah? So, we'll start with, I met her 22, three years ago?

I've, 23, 2001, so 23 years ago. She is a television creator, writer, producer. Yay. Boss Mama. She was... Yeah, boss Mama big time. She was the showrunner for the 70s show, that 70 show. Oh, awesome.

And it went on. She's created Nurse Jackie, and she's a pioneering woman. That's amazing. I love that. I love that. Nurse Jackie was huge, dude. That's amazing. And the first thing to ever really deal was.

with, you know, opioid abuse, first show that ever talked about it. So she called me in because she was doing a new show called the 80s show. And she called me in because she liked my work and respected me and thought I would be, it was a character that ran a music store. And she just really wanted to base the show on a strong,

so I came in, met her, instantly it was like, they offered me the part, and I was touring, and the money didn't, you know, and I couldn't, and I was like, oh, God, I can't do it. But I really liked her, and this was back in the early 2000s before they had reality shows. It was like reality shows were about to come in. And I remember sitting at a table because we said, we want, let's do something together, you know? And she saw how very interesting my life was and was like, man, if we could just have a couple cameras around your life, I was like, that's weird.

And then the Osbournes came out right after we were like, oh my God, they took that idea. But it was in the ether. But so we were best friends. She became my best friend because we were so much alike. And we loved football. Yeah. Who's the team? She's a Packers fan, Greenberg Packers.

She grew up, she was born in Wisconsin, grew up in Illinois, but remained a Packer fan. I grew up in Kansas, so I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan and I am enjoying life very much, these last few years. Oh, for sure. My husband thinks they're going to go to the Super Bowl this year. Well, of course. I think your husband and I should go to the Super Bowl. Let's do it.

We could all go. That'd be amazing. It's in Vegas. No, it's not. It's in Norlands. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's in Vegas last year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we were best friends.

She helped me through cancer as my friend. She saw me through the hard times in my relationship, again, my second marriage. She knew all my children. and loved and adored her, especially my oldest. Good. When I went through my spiritual change, she was one of the only one that would listen to me and was interested and understood.

And we were extremely close as best friends. Then when my marriage fell apart, she was working on Nurse Jackie in New York, and she was selling her house. And I was like, well, come stay with me. You know, my wife's gone, and I have no housekeeper, and I have four children,

and I'm a single mom. And so she came and stayed. And the thought had crossed her mind that maybe we might take a step further. I was like, I suck at relationships. I'm horrible. I'm never going to be in a relationship again. And no, but be my friend and help me. And for months, she would get up with me.

She would make the lunches for all four kids. She would help me with the breakfast. She would until one, and every night after they went to bed, we'd sit and talk. And just our relationship was this like this. And that one day, little ones were. were running around. The two-year-olds were running around, and we had changed some things in the kitchen, and I was like, where are the sippy cups? And she looks at me, and she goes, well, dear, and I went, because it went inside, and you know all of a sudden that was the click of, man, I'm

finally having the relationship with a person, this home relationship that I was wanted, that I could count on someone who I knew could help me with my children, who all these things, And I find her attractive. Oh, shit. Oh, no, what am I going to do now? And I didn't want to mess up our friendship. But she was like, she just. Did you always love, did you love her?

Oh, yeah. And I didn't know just how deeply. Because I was in my own relationships and drama and whatnot. So, but yeah, I guess I'm not old with it. Yeah. And it has never, because soon we found out our differences, which were very good. and work together. And the sexual part of the relationship has been better than I've ever had in my life.

Fire! I had no idea. I had no idea. And it's been, how many years have we been together? 10, 15? Oh, my goodness. 15. I forget, you know, when you get to a point, you know.

Yeah. But they didn't let us get married until 10 years ago, so we're married 10 years. I love that. Isn't it amazing when you find that person? It just happens. And I think it happened because I finally got myself into a place of, because I used to believe, oh, I had to have that beautiful, straight looking, smart, you know, not smart, but I needed a beautiful and straight, because those were things I didn't feel and I felt I needed that.

And I would fall in love with the look and just hope they fit later. And that was no way to do it. disaster and finally I have had I've had this solid relationship with a person and I'm like oh I can fall in love with that you can fall in love with a soul with a soul that's how it is with my husband like I just love his soul and I love myself enough yes to see that no no it's about me being happy this person makes me so happy you know to be together that long and to still feel that way what is you guys a secret what's a if you could give anybody relationship advice Like, what's one key thing?

I say this because we say it to each other all the time, because we understand it. You have to love yourself as much as you want the other person to love you. You have to take care of yourself as much as you want to take care of your partner. And you want them to take care of you. You have to. There are certain things that it's not about the other person doesn't fill you up. You have to fill you up. And then that joy allows all this happiness.

We can't save our partners. We have to be a light in ourselves. She went through a health thing a couple years ago. And I knew it's like, okay, I can't get sick enough to make her well. I have to be well I have to be enjoying my career I have to be loving where I'm going so that I can be a light

so that she can raise up be inspired by that that's what we do we inspire each other she inspires me oh my God there's so many times I fall down a deep hole

and she's like are you crazy you know you're silly girl she doesn't go down there with me she stays up you know because we fill ourselves up we are there for the other one Mm, that's powerful. I love that. That's amazing. That's so real, too. Because I feel like people get lost in each other when they get into it. And that's, I think that's love. Right. We were raised with that. We were raised with mothers that said, you have to take care of me. Yes. You know, if you do this, I'll die. And we think that we have to be something for somebody else to be okay. Boy, you have to change that because that will make you sick. Now, that's how Jay and I are. We love each other immensely, but we also make sure.

that we each have our own separate things to where it's like we're each other's rocks in different ways. You know, it's like if he falls down, I lift him up. If I fall down, he lifts me up. And that's really the way you have to do it. You have to be steadfast in yourself to be able to, you know, maintain a relationship for a long time. We've only been together eight years. You guys have us way beat. Still eight. Eight's good. I mean, yeah, listen, I don't know how we've made it this long. I always tell everybody they're like, congratulations on eight. years. I'm like, I think you need to congratulate him on surviving. Yeah. And you know what? We do it every day and we just, we just learn more every single

day. This is a practice. We're supposed to get it wrong. Yeah. And there's not even wrong. You can't get it wrong because you can always do it more. There's always the next moment. You live and you learn. And I really truly believe friendship is a huge basis for any relationship. Because my husband and I are friends before we're lovers. That's, that's exactly us. And we always, We always say, or she'll say to me, she goes, gosh, I love your girlfriend now. No. You know, because, you know, she used to, anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gotcha. You know, I'm not going to explain the joke. Gotcha. Okay. Moving on from the love story. Let's talk about this docu-series. Oh, man. Yes, growing up in Leavenworth, Kansas, actually when I was seven years old, Johnny Cash came to the prison

that was three blocks from my house. I could see it from the backyard. Wow. Yes. federal penitentiary. It was a big part of Leavenworth. It's just, it was part of my childhood. And there it was, and he came, and none of us got to see him. Nobody but the prisoners. And I thought, prisons must be a place of fine entertainment, you know? I want to do that. So I started, kind of started with that as a child. But then later, when I did go in with some

variety groups and these crazy things that I did go in to entertain, I saw, everyday people they're all in the same clothes and you know you could tell that they were here and they weren't incredibly happy but I saw people who were fed by entertainment

and joy and music and how much it did and they were so enthusiastic for anything they saw I would sing and it was the first time an audience was like yes you know a hundred people 200 people to a 12 year old you know

Yeah. Wow. That's just insane, though, that they even allowed a 12-year-old in a prison. I know. Believe me, you don't know how insane it is. It's crazy. But it really happened. And it was, I went into the women's prison, which was the first time I saw, I was like, looked at the audience. I thought, I thought this was the women's prison. It was the first time I saw women, masculine women, you know, and it kind of blew my mind. And then went into the state penitentiary. I went in to the Army penitentiaries there. played in every single one of those and have always in the back of my mind thought of it. As a matter of fact in the early 90s I was friends with Tammy Wynette. She was beautiful woman and

we both had a desire to go play at a women's penitentiary and we were talking to HBO about going to one in Virginia that was run by women and it was women's penitentiary and then she got sick and died and so I had almost done it in the 90s so it's always has been in my mind that I wanted

to go back into a prison. Well, now my life goes on. I lose my son. I become very involved with finding alternatives to pain reduction and to opioid addiction. And I go in, I finally get the opportunity, Paramount Plus MTV, say, yeah, we'll do this. And Sun Records, they paid for the album. I've got a live album now out on Sun Records, which I've never had a live album.

And I'm so thrilled about it. And the concert was the Topeka Correctional Facility, finally found the warden, a female warden who, she's so good that she is now in charge of all the wardens of Kansas. Wow. Yeah, she has been promoted. She's so good because she understands that their punishment is their freedom's taken away. It's not up to her to punish them more in the prison. That's so amazing.

It's rehabilitating them and getting them out. So she says, yes, when we come ask, can we do a concert? She's like, yes, I say how long. She goes, how long you want? I say, I'm going to curse, and they're going to get really excited because that's what I do to an audience is bring people up. And she's like, go ahead. I'm like, okay, here we go. And it changed my life.

And because so many of those women are in there, because crimes committed, to feed their drug addiction, I related. And I got to tell you, there's a moment when I'm on stage and I'm talking to the crowd. these women who have lost their freedom, they are in there, they are working hard to try to get their lives together, and joy is hard to find, and I'm, start telling them about my son and how I had lost him. And the outpouring of empathy and caring, every one of them put the little hearts over their heads. I was like this wave of empathy from an audience that surely you know has had so much happening they they don't even see their children and and it really showed me that people are people and and we all have the same makeups and and we all have

our own times that we got to go through our stuff but there they were just being empathetic and and delightful and it really I can't wait for you to really you sit down with it oh we are we're going to we have told you we have a 14 hour track we're going to watch it, and it's available on Paramount Plus. Paramount Plus, okay, and it's called I'm Not Broken. Where did you come up with that title? Well, there's a couple things. In the movie, I

write them a song. Right. And I met them. I really felt like I didn't want to write a song that was like feeling sorry for them. You know, sad, you know, oh, the green green grass of home or something like, I didn't want to make them sad. Right, right. Right. You know,

and I'm like, I want to lift them up. I want them to see what power they have. and that where they are did not define, you know, where they're going. Yeah. And so I wanted a rock and roll song. I wanted a song that we could do a call in response to, you know, and just lift people up. And I was like, what are the things I want to say? I want to say, I'm a burning woman.

So the name of the song is I'm a burning woman. And I was with a friend of ours, a director, Amy Tinkum. She had directed my Broadway show. and she had just been like researching Bob Marley because she did his show in Vegas and she was she had been to this mountain top with this reggae Rastafarian man and and this take her to the priest and the priest just looks at her and says you're not broken and it just healed her she was like oh you know didn't know that that was a belief and she came home and when she said I'm not broken I was like that's it that's it

exactly what I want to say. So the chorus is I'm a burning woman. I'm not broken. I'm a burning woman. I am worth it. And that's what I wanted to leave with them. So the paramounted, and we all agreed that the name of the thing would be, I'm not broken. You're not broken. You're just learning. Have you ever stopped to think that that song is kind of like an affirmation? Oh, all of my songs are 100%. Affirmation. I was listening to that. For myself. No, it is, there's just as much healing going on for me as there was in the crowd.

And that song, I love singing it every night. Even if people don't know it, I get, it's the only song I've ever cursed in. Yeah. You know, I love that. You know, so I told the audience, I said, I know, getting spicy. I know, getting spicy. There's a strong language in this. And I just, you know, singing it and just bring it.

And it, and it's just, it's definitely an after. I'm not broken and I I am worth it and I sing that to myself every single night. I love that and you guys have to check it out. It's on Paramount Plus We're going to watch it while we're driving from L.A. to El Paso in the next few days. So I can't wait. I'll I'll text you because I'll have your number. That's right. I'll be like Hi Melissa. I watched it. This is your new BFF. I'm just going to we'll have a group text. We'll have a group chat. You're not going to get rid of us now. We're going to be all real. I love it. And let's talk about you have a tour and an album dropping and And I'll let you out of, I'll let you out of here because I've kept you for so long. Yes. No, the live album is, I'm not broken. Yes.

It's the live album. It's a double album set, just like in the 70s. Yes. Like Peter Frampton, it's, it's this concert. It's got the hits on it. But it's also has some deep tracks that I really wanted to bring to the women about, you know, transformation and fear and darkness and these things. And the tour I'm on, I'm always on tour, because that's what I love to do.

Yeah. I like my husband. you guys just live in a bus. I can do that. If it wasn't for my children, might not, because my wife comes with me, we're like, yeah, it's what it's all about. Me too.

I have my own bus, though. Smart. I was like, you're not putting me on a bus with 11 dudes. It's not happening. Okay, well, there's four, five dudes on our, no, four dudes on our bus and us too, so it's okay. I love it, yeah.

Yeah, so we're going out, doing some dates on my own. I've just got about six weeks left, I think, and then some dates with Jewel. But this summer, I did some dates with the Indigo girls, and they were great. Oh, that's awesome. Really great. They didn't know they were still together.

Yeah, they've, yeah, we're all coming together. It's a big, like, 90s fest. That's so, and I think we're going to do a 90s fest. I think we're going to do, yeah. Remember, what was it, Lilith Fair? Do you remember that? What do you, what do you think, I want to know your definition of what Lilith Fair was? I went one year, and I forget who was playing because I was so fucked up.

Yeah. My definition of Lilith Fair was like, just a bunch of power. women who got to go and bring other women together and like that's why we went because it was so I've always been like woman power you know I never played Lilith Farron that's another thing but I do I do think there's another like all female powerful something coming yeah it needs to come back around and we need to have powerhouses like you Stevie Nicks like yeah just everybody just go and fucking perform I'll be there yeah I might show my titties because I'm excited because I'll be super excited You know, and it's going to be all women there anyways.

Come on. Yeah, I think maybe we need to design that. Let's do it. Let's set it up. Melissa, thank you so much for coming. And just being able to sit down with you for this past hour and a half has been just a blessing. My pleasure. You are a delightful woman, and I am just blessed to be in your presence.

Oh, listen, you guys all want to make out because we can. I'm ready to wifey into this, too. So you guys, I got to let you go because Bailey is getting married. you are heading out to your engagement party which is a thing they do nowadays yes I guess I never had an engagement party but okay it's gonna be so how cool is that to have you as a mother-in-law though oh she puts up with it you you know kids are kids no matter how famous you are no matter who you are what you do you still are you can still let them down you can still you can still not perfect no I get it I totally get we have we got our daughter at home and

sometimes she's like I'm just you know can you guys just turn it off yeah I'm like what do you me i know yeah like we're good we're fine everything's great oh well thank you guys again for being here and i'm so happy i got to meet wifey too oh yeah and thank you guys for tuning into another episode of dunflond i'll see you guys next week bye