Dumb Blonde - TBT: RaMona Rizzo

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

The Mob Wives March continues with the beautiful and feisty RaMona Rizzo, who sets the record straight about her legendary grandfather, Lefty Guns Ruggerio. RaMona talks about discovering the truth of her grandfather's life through Joe Pistone's book and confronting the differences between reality and Hollywood's portrayal in Donnie Brasco as well. She shares her story of meeting Al Pacino on set and how she's learned to rise above other family secrets, drama, and betrayal. RaMona gets into her path to Mob Wives and her excitement for her company, Spiritual Slinger.RaMona; IG | Spiritual SlingerWatch Full Episodes & More:www.dumbblondeunrated.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Is this thing on? Bonnie, who used to be a former sex worker and now hosts the podcast Dumblond. Most little girls grow up wanting to be doctors and lawyers and shit. And I was like, I want to be super hot, make a lot of fucking money and be a rock star's wife. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star.

I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. I'm talking about the fact that I'm a rock star. to be a former sex worker and now host the podcast Dumb Blonde. Most little girls grow up wanting to be doctors and lawyers and shit. And I was like, I want to be super hot, make a lot of fucking money and be a rock star's wife. That was my goal as a child. And here we are. What's up you sexy motherfuckers. Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde.

Today I have a true, I guess we could call you a mafia princess. Some degree. Ms. Ramona Rizzo, how you doing, baby? I'm doing great. Honestly, I'm so happy to be here. I kind of manifest this in my own brain to be here with you because everything that you've done, I'm going to give you your flowers. I'm not a little groupie, like a fan groupie, but the things that I've said about Bunny

is she says it how it is, what she's been through, but also you're very, very intelligent, which more people need to know. Like take away all the aesthetic of the makeup, the clothes. Like you say some deep shit. I'm like, this bitch, like you would really think that you had like the best education. You're very educated. I give it to you, girl. Girl, you want to make out?

I need you to just come and do my intros all the time. That was amazing. I appreciate you. And you know, it's, I always tell everybody, uh, street smarts Trump's book smarts. And I learned everything that I've learned through life lessons and living on the street. So I appreciate that. So there's so much to dive into with you. I just had, um, you know, one of the other mob wives who you are very close with. That is your cousin, right? Well, we're not blood, but we knew each other before we were actually born. Our parents were pregnant together, so we grew up the minute we came out with each other.

OK, and that's Karen Gravano. So I just had her on the podcast, and I told her the same thing. When this whole mob wife aesthetic thing came online, I was like, this is the perfect opportunity to show people that this is not just an aesthetic, that this is a real lifestyle that has hurt people, that has affected people, that has given you amazing memories also in the same token. And your story is pretty crazy. I felt so bad for you watching some things,

and we're going to get into it. But who was your grandfather? My grandfather was Lefty Guns Regerio, and the movie Donnie Brasco was based on him, basically. Yeah, so let's go back to that. So where did you grow up? I was born in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and that's where the show, like Africa's show, the movie,

was featured there. Right. And he, so Lefty Guns was part of the Bonanno crime. Look at you, you're Italian. Yeah. Listen, I did some research, okay? Saying it properly. I'm telling you. So he was part of the Bonanno crime family and you were the first granddaughter. Yes. Growing up, what was your relationship

with your grandfather like? We were so, so close. I was, when you see somebody's your grandfather's princess, that's who I was. And we had a very, very close relationship. I had another grandfather who was in the lifestyle. But I don't know, maybe a lot of times people say you're always closer to your mom's parents

opposed to your dad's. So I was much closer to him. He was a very warm person. So I don't know what he was doing behind closed doors. And when he left to me, he was so affectionate. He was warm. He made a big fuss, total gentleman. And if he was like, you know, I wish he was here today, he, he would fuss over you. Like he would do it on you. Like he was very, very big on manners. I love that. Anytime I hear you talk about your grandfather, it's always like the sweetest memories. That's what I know.

Like what an honor though to him to have a granddaughter who just like had him on a pedestal. Well, according to the few, you know, if I ever get bored a couple of times, and I'll just like read some of the comments, like say if I do an interview like this or just in general, like he was a murderer. How do you sit there and justify your grandfather?

I'm like, dude, this who he was to me, we're not talking about Charles Manson. We're talking about somebody that was in an organization that everybody chose to be in. It wasn't like how I say Charles Manson got innocent people or the serial killers. People want to just sit there and say, murder, murderer. He was alleged. He never got convicted of that. They said whatever they said, the number was quite high. But was it true?

Don't know. Not my business to know. And I'll never have proof if it was. And I think that's actually a profound point is because it's so easy for people on the outside to be like, oh, he was a murderer. How are you advocating for this man? And really, that side you never got to see.

Your grandfather loved you and like doted on you. And anytime you talk about him, I always hear about the great memories that you guys had. Growing up, when did you start realizing that there was something different about your family? Because I heard you state in an interview that it was a very secretive family. Till this day my family, they just can't help themselves.

They're very secretive. And that's why with my four children, just come ask me everything. Just get it off your chest. What do you wanna know? It had to be about nine years old when all this started. And it never, it went into that family, to my actual family that I was living with

because I lost had a father. Right. He wasn't a straight shooter either, even though he's legit on paper. He had a past that if you Google it comes up. So if I was born in this time, they would never have a chance to keep up any secrets. But then they were very secretive about everything. So it was about nine and how I always remember that, because that's another thing. How do you remember your childhood trauma?

I remember it when I was five, but I had to do with the holy time of communion. My grandfather's body language changed differently so much that day. It was always about me and fussing and fussing, but he became like talking in the corner, like not himself. Like I could read his body language. He was like, he knew something was going down to me. He took whatever happened to him like a man. He never ratted, he never cooperated.

But he was still nervous because a lot of stuff was happening. And I guess that was in the time frame. Words were being shared and things were different. Let's kind of paint a picture for the people at home about what happened with your grandfather. So there was an undercover agent named Joe Pistone. Joe Pistone, you got it again. Who infiltrated the mob as Donnie Brasco.

Can you tell us that story and take us on that journey? Well, everybody thinks that my grandfather was the one who introduced him to everyone. He wasn't. My grandfather got introduced to Pistone from another man that was part of the book. And because the book tells the real side opposed to the movie, Joe Pistone wrote a book. He sold the book to the, you know, to the movie company.

I don't know who produced it at the time and they had the right to change it because once you they buy the rights to the book, it's lights, camera action. So from that, where they got to change the ending that my grandfather was murdered, he died of cancer in Sloan-Kettering Hospital. So it was totally different. So again, a lot of people don't know, when you work for the FBI, you're not

supposed to profit off your work. So Postone wrote the book. They fired him because he was just rewarded. Here's your plaque and a check for $200. But this man was so engulfed in this lifestyle that I think he never would have quit. Like, they pulled him off because supposedly there was going to be a hit on my grandfather.

So they closed down the whole operation. Let's rewind it back and start from the beginning. So your grandfather allegedly had a gambling problem, correct? That was the first. Gambling and women. Give it give it a love to blonde. My kind of guy. I'm from Vegas. Um, so he, you know, had a gambling problem and he was kind of, this is me just, you know, all the research that I didn't correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't, I want you to tell the story also. So he kind of had a gambling problem and enter Joe Pistone,

AKA Donnie Brosco, presents himself as this jewel thief, this, you know, hustler, whatever. And he starts working with your grandfather to initially start paying back his debts. Right? Well, this again, this is what happened. So he met my grandfather through somebody that was in their, their crew already cooperating. So if you're already with somebody's cooperating, what are they going to tell you? So now we need to move on to the next one. So the guy introduced the Pistone, then my grandfather and him became extremely close. And my grandfather, regardless, they were making money. Whatever he did with that money, yes, it was definitely to pay debt, probably to go pay

some more, probably to go buy us gifts, whatever it was. It was for his lifestyle and to pay off debt, but also to keep gambling and to live. So moving on from that, he also, hold on, let me get my bifocals on. Let me not even pretend to be able to read this without my glasses. He became a maid man though after working with Pistone. And then, after, you know, him and Pistone had a pretty, cause I'm just trying to paint his picture at home for people so they can see all that you've been through

and you know, the story of your grandfather. He became best friends with Joe Pistone. Yeah, he was his best man at the wedding. Wow. Cause he got remarried. Him and my grandmother were divorced. And he married this girl that I thought for many years was the maid. See, I'm going back to the family secrets. Nothing was off limits here. I'm like, who's calling? I'm like, I'm calling

the house. And they're like, it's the maid. I'm like, the maid. In reality, they were shading her though. Yeah. They were being petty and shading her. But they would never say anything. Through whatever took place, so many secrets came out. Like through this movie, through the book, through him going to jail. They waited till after he died. So it was like, damn. It all hit you.

So before he passed away from cancer, there was a part where it said that you were nine years old at your first communion. All this stuff was going down. Him and Pistone became best friends. And then one of the head bosses was murdered, and it caused a split in the families. To that, whatever went on with them with that, I'm not 100% sure.

All I know was that something had taken place and that they said that there was a contract out of my grandfather, not about the mob was going to kill him for something before they even knew. I guess maybe that's when they found out Brasco was an informant. Right. Something happened with the book. I mean, with a boat. Yeah. And they said they with the book. Yes. I mean, with a boat.

Yeah. And they said they put two and two together. They had said that there was like a yacht party and it made the news. And that's how they start. Your grandfather started questioning Pistone. And this will get better because see, like if he was maybe here today, once I found out about the book and I had a breakdown and I'm a start and I'm a teenager, I'm like, maybe like in my, no, a little bit

older, maybe like twenties. And I'm like, what is this? And then I said to myself, he goes, do you have anything you want to ask me? You could ask me whatever. I took a deep breath and I said, no, you're my grandfather. I don't want to. But before I got the book, the day before I got the book, I was hysterical crying for two days straight. So the book hit me first before the movie. So I had the chance to like see how you're asking me all these questions. Some of them I do and don't know because I could have asked him anything. He would have told me whatever. I didn't care.

Yeah. It didn't care anymore because it's like you can't tell me about a person that I know. It's truly not my business what a man does when he leaves the house. If we're married perhaps. But there's something. But it was your grandfather. Yeah. It's like a level of respect.

And I didn't need to know it. So as far as that, I think what took place was they found out Donnie Brasco was an agent. Then they were going to put a hit out on my grandfather. They took him right off the street, arrested him, and that was it. And he had no record. My grandfather never had any priors or anything like that. He went to jail for the Rico Act. And during this entire time, your family is still lying to you and not telling

you anything that's going on. How, as a little girl, is that making you feel like it does that give you anxiety? Does that give you depression? Like, I think one of the, the, the, um, most awesome things that I gathered from doing the research on you was you said that you used to sit down and write your grandfather letters, but then you would also write back his response to you. And even as a child, that's a form of manifestation. Well, yes, but let's talk about the word anxiety.

I don't think that word was used back then. This is, this is a word of now. This is a word in the past couple of years. It wasn't big growing up. It wasn't big. If a parent had a problem, maybe they should be on bipolar medicine. There wasn't a problem. Let's be honest with our kids. Everything was very hush. So for me, that had to be an anxiety. I couldn't come and tell my parents, this is what I know. I had the knot in my feeling,

my stomach. I was sad, I was crying. That's anxiety. I was nervous, but you didn't know with that. Nobody explained it to you. There was no internet. There was sad, I was crying. That's anxiety. I was nervous, but you didn't know it then. Nobody explained it to you. There was no internet. There was nobody talking about it at school. There was nobody to help you with your problems. So I had to deal by myself. I was writing because I'm watching things on the news.

I'm grasping it, but I'm not. It was still a lot, but I knew. I knew how to know his name. I knew how to see him on the TV, but nobody would tell me. So I had to figure it out myself to a degree. I had to write letters and I had actually write it to my grandfather telling him how I felt that was my therapy. And then after that-

But at such a young age to do that- I had no outlet. Yeah. You know, Karen would tell you, she'd be like, you know, this all makes sense. Cause after she watched the special that I did, and I discussed that, she goes, this makes sense. Why you will always all the time in the room by yourself. Like they will go outside and play a lot. And I would just be like, no, I'm in my room because I got so used to it. I became used to being Drew, my own therapist in a way. And also like my best friend, like, you know, when somebody has like, not even like an alter ego,

when somebody talks to yourself but it's really you and you say it out loud, that's what I was doing. I was doing a duel, like being my own psychiatrist. That is crazy that you did that at such a young age. And then when was the pivotal moment that your parents were actually honest with you? I think some letters got intercepted.

My mother and I, we have the same name, same first name. They call her Mona instead of Ramona. But the letters, he would never call her Mona. He would always write to her, Ramona. She gave me her letter. I said, ho, ho, ho. This is it. This is like the jackpot.

I'm going to finally get time to express what's going on. I read her letter. I said, I'm going to read it out loud. So I would never make my mother read, listen to my grandfather's letter. They were sacred. They were private. Nobody could read them. Nobody could touch them.

He wasn't telling me like the code to the safe at all the millions. It was just between us. So now I'm like, I read the letter out loud and it was to my mother and he's like, ha Mona, days a little bit, not that great. You know, jail is what it is. Something pertaining to that. He said the word jail all of a sudden the flood gates, he just started hailing and crying. You know, did we talk about how I set her up to this day?

We never even had that conversation. But even then as a little kid, I was basically setting up my mother because that was my outlet to get, you know, to get answers. But let the cat out of the bag. And I could have been, again, why? What happened? Just want to say him, we don't have to talk about all that because I didn't want to hear it because I was so tired at that point being lied to. And I didn't know if I could trust what was going to come out of your mouth and really

did it even matter? He is where he was. It was a lot for a nine year old, but it was like, just give me to the prize already. I don't care about, you know, I'm packing it. Just give me to the prize. And he was the prize going to jail. Go visit. They had taken him after your communion.

A little bit after, yeah. Is that when we had circled away from that? So at your communion, you could tell that your grandfather's body language was off and shortly after shortly after maybe like maybe a month or two, he was gone and we're in Florida. That's what he's telling me. My parents like he's in Florida. And so between that time and the time that you got that letter, your parents were lying to you the entire time. Not even the parents, the whole family. It wasn't just my mother and father. Everybody was in on it.

Aunt's, friends, everybody. It was like, shh, don't tell the kids. Lies really could destroy a family. Yeah, that's got to be so painful. And traumatizing as a child to know that you, they pretty much initially gaslight you your whole childhood. And that's

traumatic as fuck. More than traumatic because it's like something that, you know, when I, it really depends. Like I don't remember what I ate yesterday for dinner. I don't remember a lot of stuff, especially, you know, this age creep enough in you. I don't remember a lot. And I try to do whatever I could do to like, I play the little crosswords and try to like always jog the brain, but I could always go back to the first day I visited him in jail. I remember what I wore. I remember the corduroys. If you had to put them in front of me, I could remember the type of corduroys they wore.

I could remember the watch. I could remember how my hair was. And I could remember like, you know when you go in a hospital room and you just feel like that eeriness and the coldness and there's a certain type of sterile smell. That's what jail reminds me of, all that. And back then I did have to see him in cuffs because it was different back then. And a lot of people don't know it was like he was an MDC, which is the lower part of Manhattan.

So now I could officially say where he is. So we went from not seeing, not knowing where he was till like, he's at the window. Look, he's at the window. He's waving at you. So now it was like my family was like, look, he's waving. And I went last week, you told me he was enjoying the sun. Now it's like, look, he's waving.

So it went, it just, it's a lot. It was a lot to take in, you know, even though I got to see him, it was still a lot. What was that like that first meeting, seeing your grandfather? What kind of emotions was that? Um, different, uh, because there was many people around where I'm not used to where he can't get up, he can't pick me up and throw me, you know, but then once I initially got into the visit, it was like nobody else was around anymore. But initially it was like, this is horrible because

it's like now we're like supervised on rules. But in the rules that he had to tell me where, you know, this is going to be different, but he was still, he had charisma. He still did it with such grace where, you know, fast forward, not fair served, you go back in time and everyone say, how do you remember things? I went to go visit my father when I was jail and I was younger and he really Fast forward, not fast forward, you go back in time and everyone say, how do you remember things? I went to go visit my father when I was jail and I was younger and he really didn't have much grace. I spilled the soda, the Coca-Cola and it was like, clean it up.

Like that was traumatic. Where anything that took place with my grandfather there, it was still done in grace. Where again, how did I remember when I went to go visit my father in jail many years when I was young was like four. How do you remember that? went to go visit my father in jail many years, when I was young, was like four. How do you remember that? Because something took place there. That sort of spilling sent a trigger to my brain. And I'm like, every time, sometimes a Coke, that's what I remember, a Coca Cola being

spilled. Wow. That is so wild that your family would let you go visit your father in jail. I wasn't going to remember. Who thought I would remember, Bunny? I was little. He was, oh, we were in college. I went to go visit my father in college.

So at that age, do you really know that you're in jail? I was little. I had to be maybe about four or something like that. I don't remember the exact age, but I was tiny, where enough they could lie to you. Yeah. But I still remember. Right.

Still, you see the pictures. They took you to jail, but they said he was in college? Yes. Oh my gosh. And that's a big mob thing. That's a big Italian thing. I don't know if it goes into other nationalities. They'll be like, where's our father?

Oh, he's in college. Wow. He's away. He's in school. Nobody like. Was your dad in the lifestyle also? Gotcha. Yeah.

I can tell it's hard for you to talk about it. Yeah. I don't really speak to my dad, but that's a whole of the can of worms. But yeah, that was like a whole other thing. Whatever I went to go visit him in jail that time when I was younger, dude, it's 2023. I could search you on the internet. So you don't need to blame me for mob wives for coming up. Everybody's skeletons are coming up.

You don't need to show. Is he still in prison or is he out? Oh, no, no. My father's 100% legit. He's... Why don't you guys talk anymore? Oh, because I married someone out of my nationality that was in FBI, which... And I said, what's FBI? I'm like, we don't like FBI. He goes, no, full-blooded Italian. I said, Jesus Christ, can't catch a break around here. So I married somebody that he didn't approve of. And at the end of the day, it's like, okay, don't approve of him. I have four kids now, but we just don't speak. But still love your daughter, even if you don't approve of who I marry.

But after all that came to a place that goes deeper, and I'm like, maybe it just wasn't meant for me to have a relationship with deeper. And I'm like, maybe it just wasn't meant for me to have a relationship with him. I see who he is now. Maybe it's better off I'm not with him. Yeah, absolutely. I just had a family member pass my aunt, who was like my second mom.

I had to do four days with this man in the funeral parlor. I was like a soldier. Just let it roll right off. My kids are like, that's him. This is everybody's intimidated from. I go, not me. I go, you? Daughter goes, no.

I said, so let's just keep rocking. It is what it is. Because he's like a stone face, my dad. But I think sometimes in life things happen for a reason. And with him, maybe it was because of my husband, but maybe if I didn't have my husband, it may have been for another reason. Some people shouldn't be parents. My mom's a great woman and she deals with a lot of stuff.

But for him, I think he's just been a guy that should have dogs because he's just very good to animals because animals can't talk back to you. Animals are going to do what you tell them to do. There's no compromise. There's no, well, you told me this and I believed you. No, no, I can't do it like that We never said that I'm kids are very big on that. Yeah, you know working on something and getting the goal here Look, I got all this stuff. You said I could move now. I never said that you have to stay here until you get married

Oh hell motherfucking no. I don't care about your Italian traditions. I'm moving out beforehand Yeah, if I get married or or not. I was very good, but in some degrees I was a rebel. You know what I mean? Did that happen after your grandfather passed away? Let's talk about that really quick. We left off where your grandfather got... We'll tie this all in together, but we left off where your grandpa... You had just found out that he was in prison. You went to go visit him. How long did he stay in prison after that? And did you stay in communication with him?

Well, it was always with my grandfather. You never knew that he wasn't around because he got to, you know, I guess in jail, it's a type of thing where you could use the phone. He was always on the goddamn phone. We got to the point like, what are we going to talk about now? Like during holiday, everyone's like pass the phone because he was always speaking to us. So there was nothing new in the past 10 minutes. So we always got to talk.

But from that time, from that time when I went to go see him again, I was like maybe like 10. The next time I got to go see him was in Nashville. Wow. So it was kind of a double banger. I got to see the two men that I loved, Elvis Presley and my grandfather. Wow. Because Elvis and my grandfather, the only two men I've always put in my heart. I've been Elvis fan since the day he died so I'm not gonna just say my age but I was five. So I became in love with Elvis so I was like this is a cool trip yeah but the only reason why I

got to go and the whole family got to go because he was diagnosed with cancer but between then I never got to go on a visit. And I'll tell you why. Was he incarcerated in Nashville? Yeah. Oh, wow. So I never got to go, Bunny, because when I came home from that visit, my father didn't approve of it. He went nuts on my mother.

My mother didn't tell him I was going. Now, mind you, we never discussed when I was little and went to go visit him. So when I went to that visit, so certain things set off in your brain. I'm a little chunky monkey. I like to eat. I was a little cookie kid which used to feed me like you know what mock my weight but still give me cookies. He was making cookies and I'd be like where were you today? The minute I got in the door I was like what? Where were you? I said I went to go visit Papa and jail and they put the cookies up in the air.

So this became even more traumatic. So it was like I said, when certain people should meet me have kids. Did he not have a good relationship with your grandfather? No, he kissed his ass. They were fine. They were cool. But why should I? Again, this is still a man that I love.

He's still part of the scenario of the family, someone that you just took away without any reasoning of why. And this is what took place. My mother didn't tell him, I guess, because maybe she knew he was going to say no. Work that among yourselves. Not my problem. It shouldn't have been my problem, but it became my problem. And it was horrible.

So I remember that. So up until that time, the next time I saw him, again, major presence, always calling us, getting people doing sketches of you from jail. We always had stuff from him, but I never got to see him until I was in high school and when I knew him they said he was going to pass. So they released him from jail and did they release him because he was so sick? I'm sorry. I have like a little frog in my throat. It's the I like drinking the glass bottles. That's the way. Yes, always.

It's hard to do. Do you guys do you want something to drink? We have one of these for you if you want. I'll take one later because I don't want her bother with my lips. But um. I didn't get to see him till then, and my father father really made me feel worse than what it was. So I was dealing with leaving my grandfather behind in a very cold hospital. Like the closest thing I could, you know, at that time it's like, it wasn't like the visits you go today.

Like you go and like sometimes you could be, you know, against somebody. Sometimes you could have the glass. It would just, to me, it just reminds me of a very sterile visit, like that hospital cold feel. Maybe it was my first time. I popped my cherry. I was going to visit people in jail. That was it. I didn't get to see him until I was in a teen, so he did the 13 years in jail, came home

from the- Did they let him go because he was sick or because he finished? Oh, the freak knows. He did his whole time. He did his whole bid. But it was so funny because I think he did the two years before everything, before he got sentenced. And I think he did 13 years since the whole time, but 13, right? Right. He dies, he gets out. He dies 13 months later. Should have played lotto. 13 and 13, like crazy shit. And then he died. I was like, look at him. Died on my favorite holidays.

There was no way I was ever going to forget him, but he made sure it was on Thanksgiving. Oh, grandpa. Yeah, so it was kind of like maybe it was like, to remember, I will never, ever forget him, but that was like stamping it more. I was like, wow, this is even crazier. But yeah. So take me on that journey of your grandfather the pretty much the light of your life the one man that you really look up to because you don't have a great relationship with your father so he essentially was that father

figure in your life. You're losing him, dealing with the anxiety of pretty much bearing the weight of your parents issues on your shoulders. How old were you when your grandfather passed away? It's about 22 about 22 Take me on this journey. Like what does Ramona do without her grandfather in her life? Well, you have to remember to all that time while he was in jail I had another grandfather and And again, when I did Mob Wives, I always said that I'm never going to say something that people didn't know. So people would have done their homework. A lot of people do their research.

So one of the things was when I originally said I was going to go do Mob Wives and I had to go meet an uncle about it because he had to give me something. My grandmother, who was my father's mother, passed and he's like, I hope you're not going to say anything about my father. So who do I go to? I go to the mafia, you know, the 411, the information book. I said, Karen, who the fuck was my grandfather? Well, your grandfather, meaning my father's dad was the one who got my father into the mob or he was in his crew. I'm like, really? So now we start going through names and I was like, what about this guy? I love how disconnected from it you are though. Like Karen is so immersed in it and can tell you totally different. Her father told her everything. Everything. This girl knew

everything. So, and I was like, well, what about what's his name? When he would come to my grandfather's house, she goes, he was a sharps sharp shooter. This guy was, I was like, holy shit. So all these people that I thought were like regular people that never would think anything that they're about, they were really about it, but you would never think that. Wow. So again, Karen was the one who told me if I had any questions. So here I am on a show, but I said to myself, I'm only going to talk about, I don't speak to my dad, so I'm not going to shine light on that. Yeah. I can't help what's going to come out if there's anything going to come out,

because he did it to himself. He was a grown man. He put himself in that lifestyle. Right. So my whole situation before my grandfather actually died, I still had another grandfather that was alive, but I wasn't close with, but my family was still anything that came into our home. If it was about anyone, it was a secret. Like even one time it was so crazy, the height of Karen's father situation. And before he got arrested and they were every, it's like, listen, dude, at the end of the day, you guys are going to the same spot every week, but John guided didn't care. They were filming it. So one time I'm watching the news inside and I see my father. Cause it's like, listen, dude, at the end of the day, you guys are going to the same spot every week, but John Gotti didn't care. They were filming it.

So one time I'm watching the news inside and I see my father, because it's like, it's like they had a appointment every week. So there's my father in the news. I go in the bedroom to rip into my mother. She was just up two minutes ago. She's under the covers like this. I'm like making like she's snoring, like she's going to town store. I go get up, please.

The gig is up. Just stop. You know what I mean? So everything bunny. So it didn't end there. And even if it was a question, it was kind of like when, um, people watch the Sopranos and she goes, what's the mafia? Are we in the mafia? I couldn't ask that at home because I was going to get lied to, right? You know, because people still have legit jobs and you know, they're still, you know, part of something that you can't get out of, You know, because people still have legit jobs and you know, they're still, you know, part of something that you can't get out of, you know, I don't know how you get, how you, maybe you die, maybe you rat, you know, guess like however you join a gang,

that's their whole, you know, oath, but I could never ask that. So the lies continued. They were just covered up in different ways. So like with Karen's father's situation, you know, then it became like, well, I said Karen's father is Sammy the bull. Yeah. So like with Karen's father situation, you know, then it became like, well, I said, Karen's father is Sammy the bull. Yeah. So with him, it was like, I'm not going to turn my back on her, you know, whatever men do, you know, but a lot of people did a lot of people, which is terrible, because a child should never have to pay for the sins of the father. I've never believed that, you know, she paid her her own sins and she'll talk about it so no secret, she rebelled like a motherfucker.

She said she rebelled hardcore. And it was something- Rightfully so though. You guys all, you know, were kind of born into a lifestyle that you didn't choose. And it's like, when you finally get that first taste of freedom and you're able to just say, fuck you to everybody, I mean, that's, I would have done would have done. I don't know if she told you, like when we

went out and we didn't know, like every place you went, everybody winds it up knowing somebody in our family. So we would make up names. Yeah. She told me hers was Gina. Yeah. I would make up a name because I didn't want to be caught up in that. And I didn't want to be in trouble because again, she had a different lifestyle. She was allowed to go out. We had a sneak out of my house, but even when we were sneaking out of her house, they admitted to her later on that the FBI agents were watching us come off the roof. We could have been dead. You're watching kids' chimmy off the roof.

They didn't give two shits. They didn't report it. They didn't call the police. Said, let them fall. Who gives a shit? I mean, I'm talking about a steep roof here. They didn't care. So we grew up differently. My family was more of a secret. So it always, I, you know, the

closest thing, like this whole mob wife aesthetic, the closest thing I've ever lived to the sopranos. Because again, it roots from the sopranos. It's the 25th anniversary. Um, that's how like all these women came up and you know,ano, Carmela, she is the number one TV mob wife, because everybody on our show was not a mob wife. It was just with the focus group. It was going on the tails of all the housewives shows that were very prominent. Who was an actual mob wife on the show?

Anybody? Was Renee? Well, Hector really wasn't a maid guy because he was Puerto Rican. Right. And that was a very bad situation. That was all real TV. You know what I mean?

Yeah, well, yeah. That's a whole fucking other thing. You know, something like that. So what you know, there wasn't really a mob wife on. It was just a word. I was the closest one becoming one because I was engaged to somebody at the time. but he got arrested while i was on the show while you were on the show i remember that so let's let's circle back so you move on you know you're dealing with all this

stuff personally when does mob wives come knocking on your door how old were you well mob wives didn't come knocking on my door mob wives i was out of the country i have oh is this okay so you've met your husband. Yes. OK, so let's talk about the husband, the ex-husband, the deceased husband is recently just passed. So that was a whole other thing I had to deal with. Can we talk about?

Yeah, no, it's fine. So I met my ex-husband through one of these people's jobs that my parents placed me in. So you don't want me around this. But meanwhile, I'm working for people of such demeanor. So it was a mob affiliated job. Gotcha. So I wasn't Italian, correct? He wasn't Italian, but his partners were. His partners was a big guy.

So here I am, I get this job. Guy totally wasn't my type. Had kids prior. I had the perfect boyfriend before. I had the one that looked like he was going to law school. He looked like the Ken. I always remember that Brendan and Dylan from 902.1, that was us. We did the Europe trip. We did the whole nine, but he was a psycho. Right. And- Yeah, it's always the cute ones that are fucking weirdos. Really, honestly, the preppy murderer, he could have those tendencies.

American psycho. Yes. that I got rid of. But now my husband was actually my boss at the time. It's like the regular story, like the boss and the secretary fall in love with each other. They put me in charge of this office to basically like kind of watch him in a degree. And plus a lot of people couldn't understand his dialect because even though he was Arab, he was spent like he was, um, spent like 20 years in, uh, Italy. He was an exchange student. So his accent was very different, but we ran one of the largest telecommunications company and that became a frigging shit show

with the mob and this and that and all the stuff that was being exploited at the time, but he could sell ice to the Eskimos, my ex-husband. So basically it wasn't based on his looks because I had the best looking, it was how he treated me, but this is where it comes into play. It was the height of when this movie was coming into. So I was still didn't have a good relationship with my dad, was never close with him. This man working with him one-on-one, you know, everything I said like, Hey, you should do this for your diet. Like it was a mutual respect and gave me a, um, I worked for my position. I wasn't sleeping with him, anything like that.

We didn't hook up. It's so much later on. He did it in a way where he just disappeared. He started working from home. He did like reverse psychology where I grew to miss him. And then one day I was in the midst of buying, um, I had made a lot of money. I was buying my first apartment in battery park and I needed him for help because I told my parents originally, I'm going to save this money.

I want to move out. When I came with the down payment, I never said that. So here I am a deer in the headlights, nobody helping me. So he helped me. I didn't know anything about mortgages. I didn't know anything about co-ops, nothing about that. Your family wouldn't help you? No, cause he didn't want me to move out because he never thought I would

save the money. Because I said, look, if I'm not married at this certain age, I'm bouncing. This is your dad. Yeah. And he's like, your mother doesn't want you to move either. And he tried to do some like reverse psychology, like, well, I'll move. If I'm the problem, I go, you're not the problem. I'm not living by the fact that I, because we're Italian and then you could only leave if you're getting married I'm not into that like I was kind of wasn't a wild child But there's certain things that I believe that if I were a traditional like old-school way of thinking When my father was different because it's like when my uncle had passed in the movie remember the guy that they made out to be

The drug addict and the movie that we keep referring to as Donny, Nebraska Okay, in case you that they made out to be the drug addict? The movie that we keep referring to is Donnie Brosco. In case you guys didn't catch that. They made like my uncle, you know, he had a problem. Who really didn't have, you know, have it coming up? A lot of people were on coke. It was the thing to do back then, you know? It was the drug of the 80s and 90s.

So long story short, my uncle was murdered from affiliation of the life. He was with one of his friends. They told him, don't stay with him. They killed him. But getting back to my father and his strictness, we never really had, you know, at that age, um, I was still young. I was like maybe about 12. My grandfather was still alive. You know, he's in jail, so he couldn't handle it. He couldn't do all the preparation. I father's like, you can't watch TV. I'm like, what? Old school Italians, they believe when somebody dies, you can't even watch TV. Can't have music.

I'm like, God, Jesus Christ. It became really weird. Why is that? Is that like a respect factor? I guess maybe. My father's, my father, my father is not, he's born here, but he lived with his grandparents. They lived in the house growing up. So he speaks Italian, had a lot of their traits.

He's Sicilian, like it's the hardest Italian. It's like rocks. They got brains like rocks. It's really bad. So then after that I got shipped to his mother's house and while my mother was mourning and we could have watched TV, but in my home where I lived with my mom, we couldn't watch TV. Wow. So everything was different with my dad. He was very, very hard. So, you know, I was not close with him. And then again, his father was part of the lifestyle. He was, it was

never discussed. So it was all these different things that took place. So now again, coming back to how I met my husband, it was the height of this movie being shot. Before I worked for my husband, I worked for one of the top law firms. My family got a copy of the script. I'm like, I'm not dealing with this shit. I should have let them leave my grandmother into it. I had my ex, the place I work for the law firm, I made them write them a letter. They took my grandmother out of it because they made her like she was the annoying ex-wife.

They didn't talk. Listen, they still have kids together. He was married to a new person. But they had little talk here and there. But it wasn't like, I'm going to kill him, all this bullshit. She caught him many times cheating. It was the end of it. He remarried.

I love how Hollywood tries to paint jaded women as like the villain or the bad people when really everybody knows if you get fucking cheated on, you're gonna dislike the human who has fucking hurt you that bad. And she gave him so many different, different chances, my grandmother. And that was another thing too, as I grew older and they started telling me the story, you know, now you'd be like, if your friend has their husband cheese on them, you'd be like that mother effa. I still couldn't bring myself to see it because I was like, you know what?

It's between them. I knew how to separate it. So I got a copy of the script while I'm working for my husband's firm, the communications company. I made my old bosses take them out, take the my grandmother out. Like they look like, listen, if you don't remove this lady, we're going to sue you. She's still alive.

They remove her. So now I'm like, this is still not remove this lady, we're going to sue you. She's still alive. They remove her. So now I'm like, this is still not sitting right with me. I got to do something. I got to speak up for my grandfather because they waited for him to die. And at the time, it was very rare where you got paid for interviews. Barbara Walters, before my grandfather passed, offered him two million dollars. Trust me, we could have used the money because everybody thought that our family made money off of this.

And my grandfather had no money like that He could have left. He's like no, I'm not talking. He went out like a man's man So they waited for him to die to put this movie out. So once I got this copy, I'm like, this is some shit This is not real. I knew that they were filming in in my old neighborhood, which I grew up in So even though I hadn't been there since I was young my cousin's mother still lived there So I still knew in and out of the place. I went there. I scoped it. I brought my sister who my sister was funny. She was like when Karen, everybody went out, she was the brawler. They were fighting people, beating them up. I bring her there to meet

her. You're a brawler too. I've seen it on mob wives. She breaks down because now I get to go meet Pacino. I like basically stalk him. I'm like on stalker mode I'm like they're like he'll be here soon. I know where his trailer is I'm ex and everybody need but some having breakfast in the local diner the whole area So then finally I wait for him to come outside like to go into his trailer. I'm like, mr Pacino, you're like looks at me. Who's this girl who get like another fan? I was like I want to talk to you about my grandfather lefty guns. Jiririo, his mouth dropped. The guy goes one minute, he comes and goes, he's going to take you inside. So my sister goes inside again, tough as nail.

She starts hysterical crying and go, what the frig you crying about? Shut up. Get it together. I want to talk to this man. I brought all my proof. I brought my letters. I brought, you know, our pictures because a lot of people. Bunny, even like now I get weird DMS. I'm your grandfather's other daughter. Dude, you'd be really old. And I don't think that's true. Like Karen has like,

you know, someone saying that they're Karina's father, people which you know are freaky. Yeah. So I came prepared with the truth just in case because I could have been a stalker liar. Yeah, for sure. I love that he was willing to take that meeting with you like that. Amazing man. So graceful because what I found out about Pacino is when he goes into character, he supposedly doesn't break it. So while he's on set, he's always like a method actor. He's still continues it going. So honestly, to meeting me probably would have been like a plus for him. So, and he was so graceful, so nice. He did. He said something to me that made this whole horrible situation so much easier. He said, Ramona, I'm going to take not only your grandfather, what I know about him from

the book, but everybody else around him, and I'm going to make my own character based on that. Yes, it's based on your grandfather. Because I said, my grandfather, my grandmother's, his wife's mother came from Ellis Island. She was from Spain. So from that moment, she set foot in America. My great grandmother, my mother, my grandmother always worked in fashion. My mother went to FIT.

I was like, you have him looking like a schlepp. That movie made him look like he was a hobo, where my grandfather was at the tea. See the hat? Never even owned a hat like that. So they, you know, jish it up to make it more like maybe Hollywood make, make it look a certain way. My point of this meeting with Pacino was to make sure that he knew that he just had it when it came to the family.

If there was going to be a part about that play that would love because regardless of whatever went on with this family, this Costa Nostra family, he did love us. And I wanted them if they were, because again, scripts change, it could go into certain things. I just wanted to make sure that I said my piece and paid my respect. It was like my last homage to him. I'm going to do this. I'm going to make sure that my, because I got a mouth when I want to use it, is going to get known because this is crazy. Yeah. And he said to me, everybody around him, this was going to be, um, Hollywood has

to do things differently. And he explained to me once they bought the book, the movie company bought the book, they're allowed to change it. So that's how they got to change him. Made that so much smoother for me. And I basically, at the end of it, it's like when I met another celebrity, I had to let them go because after I was, I came, I got what I needed and I was like, thank you. Like there was no reason for me to keep it going.

Like I, you know, he was kind of like closure. Yes. To give me his time. Yeah. I felt like he probably would've talked to me. He was so nice and he was so gracious. He probably would have given me another hour, but I didn't need it. I got everything that I wanted right then and there. I said my piece. I said, when it comes

to the family, that's all really what it was about. Anything else I couldn't control. After that, what a clusterfuck. Oh, your family must've made so much money. First of all, dude, nobody needed the money and we didn't make any money. That was Donnie Brosco's thing. That was with the, if you were educated, you knew it came from the book. We had nothing to do with it, but that's all I got. So meeting my husband, Joe was able to make Joe Pistone was able to make money off of it, but not your grandfather. My grandfather didn't want to because it was against his oath. He would never make my grandfather was very old school. Yeah. So like I said, he wasn't like my father,

like, Hey, you couldn't watch TV if somebody died. He wasn't like that was very old school. Yeah. So like I said, he wasn't like my father, like, hey, you couldn't watch TV if somebody died. He wasn't like that. But old school in his values with this whole mob thing. And how I did learn that, because I did get to listen to some of the tapes that they have on YouTube. And that, is that normal, Bunny? No.

It's like, in a way, it gives me peace that I could get to hear my grandfather's voice. But it's weird that what I'm listening to, right? You know what I mean? But then I'm like, hey, now I know why I get some anger issues or how I know what maybe I get some backbone and the best it'll be like, you know, I'll be such a curse. So my mother like, don't curse. I'm like, listen, it's in the family genes or maybe I should have just been a dude. Like, I don't know. It's in the family genes or maybe I should have just been a dude. Like, I don't know. You know, it's crazy.

But again, that's how my whole my husband kind of like, I don't want to say weasel, but nestled his way because I was very vulnerable at that time. And he presented all the key factors that I needed. I needed someone to basically be there for me. And when when the actual movie came out, you know where I was? I was in Jordan. I left the country.

So you met your husband. Last we left off, your husband was helping you get this apartment. Did he help you get that apartment? I did get the apartment and I acquired it before I started dating him. I still had the crazy ex-boyfriend at the time who I was like distancing and distancing.

And then he's coming to my door with three carrot rings fighting with security to try to get up, you know, come see me. And I was just totally done with him. But now he knew where I lived because I moved out of my parents' home. So with all this happening, you know, my ex-husband, who was very cunning knew how to set it up, but we weren't together then he was just helping. But I never, and I said to my girlfriend said to me, one of my best, I think he liked you. I go, shut the fuck up. Like, no, he doesn't. She saw it. I couldn't because I just thought it was like a boss, like a relationship, like someone that was, you know, being there for me. And I think it was the best thing that

I did leave and go out of the country because I don't know if I could have handled, especially if it was this day and age. How did he talk you into leaving the country? Cause that's huge to be able to be like, Hey, I'm going to take this Italian princess and move her to Jordan. At that time we were together. Okay. And I had left to go get married and I left the country and I got married there. Your father and you aren't talking at this point, right?

Because he knew you guys were dating. But I got married there. So there for like a month or two came home. I got married a Muslim marriage. So it wasn't official. I didn't record it. So when I came home, certain things we separated and I said, you know what? I don't know.

Like let me just see you know like a lot of the dust settled and my head was still a little bit my mom wasn't talked my mom was destroyed I was gone it was like all these things and who was upset it was a lot I was still it was still a lot I was still like maybe like 24 25 still young yeah and um yeah that's a baby I still tried to like we still try to to set, keep away from each other. We hooked back up and that was the end of it. So we had four kids. Take, well, but take me on this journey.

It wasn't such an easy journey for you. Like you ended up having to fight for your kids. Can you tell me all about this? Well, you could read in between the lines. We had a very good marriage. Everything was fine. Um, my story read in between the lines. We had a very good marriage. Everything was fine. My story, I will fully tell. It's not like, oh my God, like I'm trying to like hold it. I can't tell it because if I was to tell it right now, a lot of that world still exists. And why my marriage crumbled and why it winds up truly in the Middle East, I can't really fully say to the fullest degree

because I have a son and I have kids. I don't wanna talk about it now because everybody ain't gonna live forever. So once certain people are where they belong, possibly in hell, then I'll put my book out. Gotcha. But what I could say is that I wanted to go into Jordan. I had to become a mother before a wife.

I had to put the kids first. Even though we created these kids together, and while we were married in America, he was a wonderful father, and things were really good. When I went over there, I knew in my head that I was only bringing them to see the kids, to see your dad. Because I don't want to be what happened to me.

My grandfather just disappeared., to see your dad. See, because I don't want it to be what happened to me and my grandfather just disappeared. Like, hey, now your father, because up until a certain, up until I, my husband told me that I'm going to Mexico, like things were getting weird in the house, weird in a sense where he, he was acting different. So I already knew the four one one. I knew what was coming. Now remember if you sit back and I told you how I got the job, I got the job through people.

So now certain things were just crumbling down. And you already have that abandonment issue. I don't know if it's okay to call it an abandonment issue, but even though your grandfather didn't mean to abandon you, that wound is still there. Now I'm dealing with this again, but now I'm responsible for lives, for kids. So I'm like, shit, but I still don't want these kids

not to be around their dad. So I'm thinking that he went to, told me he was going to, I think, Mexico or something. So I'll quote, like, the first two days, everything we're calling, and again, the marriage is becoming very strained because of certain components of people coming around and you know and he was the type of guy like

he didn't have a vicious bone in him and I would have handled it a different way but he wasn't built like that and he had he had the right connects from the middle east to handle it that's all i'm gonna say right and um he wasn't that. And calling every day, calling every day, then eventually we're good, we're speaking. The fourth day now, the phone crosses over. Fucking crosses over, it's in Arabic. I'm like, holy shit, he's in the fucking Middle East.

I'm like, damn, this is really some shit now. I'm like, oh my God. So I had like. How many kids did you have at this time? Four. Oh, so you had, you talked about like. I had one, there wasn't even one. Oh, my gosh.

My age is kids with kids right now. I have a 25, a 24, 23 and a 19. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you know, I was busy, girl. You guys was TV. You guys were making babies. That was TV. But I wanted to create my own family.

I'm not like one of those women were like, Oh, my God, we're going to have two kids because I had a great marriage. I had a great home. Everything was fine. Whatever God was going to bless us with was going to bless us with. I'm not going to lie after the fourth one, because I had a miscarriage after that. After that, I was like, buddy, we need to do some type of protection because I didn't want to handle that miscarriage.

But I think again, everything in life happens for a reason because I had one miscarriage. But I think again, everything in life happens for a reason, because I had one miscarriage after my son was born. But the last one was like, I don't think God would have been like, you could do this with five kids. He listened, it's already predicted what's going to happen to you. So imagine even doing this with another kid. It was hard enough traveling over there. So I said, you know what? I'm not going to let the abandonment, my kids had the separation. I'm gonna take them over there. I'm still gonna get a divorce because I have to end this because I have to become a mother first.

Right. And that was really hard and nobody understood it. And I wanted them to see where the father was from. I went there before, loved the country, loved the people, loved the culture. Jordan is very, at the time they had the princess, she was American. So a lot of things were changed and it was different.

And I got stuck there for four years, almost four years, three and a half years. And I think I had read somewhere that you got stuck there because your husband was holding on to one of the last baby's passport. You know the tattoo a lot of people have or the saying there's a thin line between love and hate oh sister that one came full effect. Do I blame him? Sometimes but then do I understand that he was also trying to save his

family? So certain things took place that you know did I add a little spark to the fire? Hell yeah because I just, I couldn't take it. I was so angry. There were certain things my kids till this day, they were babies. That's why I said when people were like, Oh, you don't remember. My daughter was telling me the other day, she broke down and she's like, you don't remember that. I remember when we went to that place and your nose is bleeding. And I'm like, I don't remember my nose bleeding, bleeding, but she remembers when her and her dad and myself had a pretty big altercation that we went to like, kind of like a shelter,

like they compare their flight battered women. And they gave him three choices, either leave her alone, you could sign this piece of paper, or if you bother again, like three things, what he did, he went to another country. That was the last time that. Out of my four kids, all three of them ever seen him because I went to where he was in another country, I tracked him down there

to try to go get a divorce. But what was it? An abusive marriage? Only again, it was a thin line between love and hate. There were certain things there he couldn't he couldn't take that I nobody ever thought the woman with four kids were going to get up and get the fuck out of there in general or just leave in general. You strike me as that person. I think back and I'm like, fuck, because a lot of people you hear, even in America, they stay because it's economically right.

They stay because they don't want to have that responsibility by themselves. I was like, fuck this shit. I got to just do it because I had to be a parent first. Did I love the life that he provided? Hell, yeah. Did we did he like become like the person that was like, oh, you know, you could have this. It was like, you know, rabbit, you know, putting the little carrot in front of the bunny's face, like that type of scenario.

And I'm like, I had to pull back from that because I had to be responsible for these kids. Did they fully understand it? Do they may have some resentment? I don't know. But so many things became so displaced. And I also said, I don't want to raise my kids like, um, to be army brats in a sense. And the best way that he could ever punish me was I got to go back to my family. That was the biggest punishment because there were certain things that I didn't want my kids to be around. Like if I was married to him, you know, he wasn't around the people that got him involved

in that business, they were no longer around. So I knew the minute that, I was very grateful for my family taking me in because I had nothing coming back home. So you ended up going back home with the four babies. That was the biggest punishment. But before that, he tried everything to keep me there. I would have made it where if we could make it

where I could have stood still still stood in the Middle East because my kids had the best education. They had an amazing education. If you lived there, middle class, you were very rich. The homes are beautiful. The food was to die for. If he would have made it where I could come home, I probably would have been down for it,

but he's like, no, I'm like, no. Everybody come visit you here. I'm like, but when you see this shit on the news, they're like, they think the bombs are going off. Jordan's nothing like that. They think that, because you know, it was a time after 9-11. So everybody thinks it's this whole big thing

and it's not like that that but to convince people you love You know at the ends I had to send three children without my fourth because she didn't have a passport Nobody would come get them and my family loved my kids, but they were scared So I had to get like an airline Student is to pay for them to watch my kids on the plane Everybody thought like no the minute they got off the plane. They were gonna be beheaded like that was gonna be the end of them so off the plane, they were going to be beheaded. That was going to be the end of them. Also then I had a lot of issues over there. He was strong arming me where like, well, this

could happen to you. Or one time when I was there, I said, I'm going to be with you. I tried it, but then like, you know, Bonnie, I was like, I felt like I was in that harm's way with my grandfather. I felt like the bottom was gonna, I couldn't trust anymore. You didn't feel safe. Because what I told him was, you know, through the marriage, if I find out one thing, you're back, even talking to these people. I get it now because I'm much mature and I'm older, but then he couldn't tell me because he failed me as a husband.

But then I also knew that he had no choice but to talk to these people. Because I said to them, I said, if you bother with these people again, it's the end of our marriage. We're on the kids. He told me I won't do it. He had no choice but to talk to these people. Because I said to them, I said, if you bother with these people again, it's the end of our marriage, swear on the kids, he told me, I won't do it. He had no choice to. Did I make a lot of rash decisions? Probably was a very hotheaded, but that was my way of protecting my children. Yeah, and I didn't want them to go through

what you had to go through. And in a degree- You're trying to break generational trauma. And in a way, maybe they went through something worse because they don't have a dad. You know what I mean? So I don't know, there was no, I don't think there's any even side of this coin.

They do know that I did everything to keep us together. Like, listen, he offered me a million dollars of money for the kids. Like, you know, he had tons of money, but I was like, I'm not leaving my kids. Did he just step away from the kids after you moved back? No, he wants it, but he was here. I mean, I was here, he was there leaving my kids. Did he just step away from the kids after you moved back? No, he wanted to, but he was here. I mean, I was here, he was there.

Cause that was a whole other issue. It wasn't like now anybody could come back over the border. There was a lot of shit. Because he came from a country that he lived in Jordan, but he was originally from another country that's not recognized. So his passport, so to come back into America, he had to go through all the process

and getting all the paperwork. Cause he was never fully a citizen. I was in the process of making him one. Right. Paid millions of dollars in taxes. We was never a citizen. It was like some fucked up shit. No, that sounds like the fucking government. You know, it is what it is. It wasn't like now, like you could, you know, walk over and nobody's going to bother.

It was different than like, you know, one time with the the immigration, they came to my house. He's like, I was doing my hair. It's like, you have to come time with the, the immigration, they came to my house. He's like, I was doing my hair. I was like, you have to come home now, immigration. I go, if these motherfuckers can't see all the toys at my house look like toys or what, that this is a real marriage, then they really need to go get a better job.

And I took my time and I went there for the interview and he was on, he was on the cusp of getting his, his nationality, but all the shit bottom fell out. So here I am trying to make everything nice, go to the country and he just didn't wanna let me leave. And then I found out throughout that I had legal issues back home because of him. Because when he left, he left so many business things

up in the air, he had no choice. Who's left holding the trophy wife. So if they can't get him, they're coming for me. Yeah, absolutely. So it was basically, it's a lifetime movie. It's like the mob meets not without my daughter, meets some corporate like white collar shit. Oh fuck.

And at the end of it, everybody's like. And you tried your hardest to get away from it. And you know, and then like, and when I did the show, I wanted it to kind of be a meaning for know and then like and when I did the show I wanted It to kind of be a meaning for women to be like listen I get it, you know, so many people go through divorce this one night mob Why my wife's when I did my wife's and they they came knocking on your door when you were in Jordan now Okay, again one Karen was on the show. She was going they were talking about doing the show again

It was never called mob wives about all these these girls So I knew what they were getting into so when I came back it was their first season So here I am now. I'm just thrown back to some old friends Karen had just moved back to Arizona Which was nice, so she was kind of like when I got there. She was like In a sense a newbie of being back officially moved back, right? Some of the girls like I said, you renee's family did holidays with them whatnot So they were like the first season like, you know Do you want to be on it? I had to turn it down because I had all these legal issues. He left me with a bag of shit

I couldn't even get a toys or us credit card. Like everything was fucked up from top to bottom You know, I was left like because we left the house was like we left like thieves in the night. I only packed For two weeks because my kids were enrolled to go to school. And here I am. Got stuck there all these years. So when I came back, I was like, no, I can't do it now. I don't know what my fate is going to be with the law. I don't know. I had to check in with like some of the D.A. or some know that. I don't know. Some high guy up in in the the government to make sure I wasn't like when he saw the case.

I'm like, listen, I had nothing to do. There was charges brought up on you because they never brought up on me. They were trying to come up with something because of my husband. So when I finally got one of the prosecutors on the he goes, I've been following this case. I go, what case? I said, did anybody to my husband hold a gun to anybody's head? You only know about this case because it originally started organized crime. The people that he's involved with now because he had up and leave

because he owed people money. They don't understand that the guy had to go. So right now you're going on something that this is not about the mob. So if you so he's like, yeah, you're right. So they couldn't do anything to me. So they were trying to like make me like a martyr, like maybe he'll come back and we'll take the wife down. But there was nothing to take me down for.

They'll they'll go to any length. Any length. Yeah. So after a while, I thought women and children were off limits. Not to not to the feds. OK. I mean, I got please I got hit with so many different things that was just so unethical. Please. It's just like when I tell you it's a book, it's a story. It's a whole fucking lifetime. And it just became so insane with everything that was happening. So when the show took place, I said, listen, guys, I don't know what's going to happen.

Now, my family took me back in, you know, I had to go live, which was very humbling. Had to live with my aunt used to having my own house. I built a 30,000 square foot in Atlanta. Never got to live in. Wow. You know, my dream home to go to live in to a house where we're sharing bedrooms, but had no place to go. But still, I appreciate it was. But it's still now somebody else humbling. Yeah. Somebody else's rules.

Right. Somebody else's way of, you know, authority in the home. So that was the biggest punishment I felt from my divorce. If you had to say like, hey, um, Ramona, uh, this is what was worse losing money or that that, because it also brought me back to a place where I didn't want to, my parents and my family are good people. Like, you know, they, they just have a way of secretive or maybe the way that they believe. And, you know, for me, I'm like, whatever my kids decide to do in their life, even if they wanted it to be, you know, in a relationship where somebody's not the same

color, somebody's not the same nationality, I'm going to be like, listen, it's not going to be easy. But if that's what you want to do, I'm here for you. Yeah. And my family, oh hell no, you'll be disowned. You won't be, you know what I mean? Like if save you were to how far has that gotten them? You know, like being secretive school. Yeah, it's just it's just it's the law of their way. Yeah. You know, Karen has an interracial baby that would have never flown my home. Yeah. Never, ever, ever. Do they consider your kids interracial because that was like the weirdest thing.

It's like so weird because even when I came back home and I'll talk to my Latin friends, they'll like you're white. I'm like, but what the fuck are you? Like, I never saw my friends that are Latin, not white. Right. Right. So I went to see this. The only way that I found out that people judge differently is when I moved to good old Atlanta, Georgia. So we lived there for many years.

The good old South love the South. I really did. I loved it. If I could have been lived there forever and not have any this happen. Ramona, you want to be on TV or you want to live happily in Atlanta? Oh, honey, I'll take that any day. Yeah. How I saw the racism was that I was like, listen, there was nobody going to outshine me. Like when it came to like selling stuff, you know, like the PTA mom, my daughter came, my son came home. He had to sell all the shit.

I fucking rocked it. I killed it. I sold everything to everybody we knew. They were so nice on the recording. Back in the day, you had the recordings on the home phone. Hi, Ramona, I'm so happy you won you this, you're that, you're great. Boo boo boo, blah, blah, blah. The minute I call back and she heard that Yankee accent,

oh, it was downhill. They didn't like me. So I got a little bit taste of the South, even though Atlanta is the melting pot, that town is ran by old money. Yeah. And once they got my New York accent, and they're like, so that's where I first discovered that.

The second thing when my son came home, he said, what's this, a little, he goes, what's this? I said, what did you say? Because his last name was Arabic, and they considered them. I said, I had to explain something. So that- And that's what they called him at school. They said, so where'd it come from?

It had to come from somebody's parents because again, he was carrying the Arabic last name and that's where, you know, this whole camp, I was like, oh, Giovanni. And I, you know, the kid, he's got an Italian name with an Arabic last. So it was a lesson, but that's where I knew that people would be like different colors.

You know what I mean? I never unless you were like black be like, which I have many black friends. I don't, you know, I always thought like somebody if they were Spanish or they were white, you know what I mean? It's just so different how people are like, no, because you're white. I'm like, tell my friend, she'll know I'm Latin. So it's like how everybody looks at a different where I never looked at anybody as a true color unless it was like actually said out loud. I never really, so in the South, that's what it was about. But I guess because my husband was light,

they could never really say anything like as far as like, you know. You never, you know, yeah. Shamed you. Where like they're having like an interracial child. Right, gotcha. It wasn't like, you know, yeah. Shamed you. Where like they're having like an interracial child. Right. It wasn't like, you know, a mixed baby. Like, you know, you can never come home and date a black guy.

I'm like, can I just date her with the fuck I want to date? It wasn't like my father would find out if I was doing something on him, like say on the weekend by Tuesday as as much hush hush we thought we would, you know, keep it. He would find out I've had friends, you know Tell me that your father chased this never came home and told me um Some guy that I thought it was cool to like having my sweet 16 He was you know, we were together like dating, you know, it wasn't even having sex then nothing My father chased the guy down in the mall with a hammer, but I didn't know about it You know what i'm saying? So it's like again with the double lives

Then i'm like seeing this other guy. He's like when I'm older, he's like so hot. I had to break it off with him because somebody lived on the block that knew my father. So it was like, because I could never say where I truly was. Right. So I was just like, I wasn't, I never, I was the type of girl that I never wanted to do drugs

because I saw, you know, my family, there were alcoholism in it. My uncle would drink. My aunt would drink once in a while. My uncle went through the other situation on the other side of the family with the, um, the drug. So I knew to always stay away from that. Yeah. So when I went out, I wasn't like that type of partier. I just wanted to go out and be free. Yeah. You know what I mean? And just have a good time and not be somebody's daughter, somebody's granddaughter, somebody's niece. I just wanted to be like everybody else, but it was very hard for us because New York was ran by a lot of a M.O.B. So speaking of M.O.B. let's talk about how you got integrated into the whole mob wives thing and like take me on that journey with you because you're

just coming home. Just coming home. I was asked to do with the first year I had her. I had any. Had line up. Then came one. These other girls got wind of it. Holy shit. You got to think like, oh my God, that, you know, the devil was coming to be on the show. They didn't want it because it all came down to money. Nobody wanted to share with another girl. Like, you know how when, um, an Atlanta housewives you get a peach? Yeah, they don't want nobody else on the show. Karen was down for it. So they had a meeting among the minds and with, you know, with some of the

producers, they didn't want you on the show. No. OK. Some of the girls didn't. And mind you, one of these girls in particular, when I did come home, I was partying with her. There was no qualms then. But when it was like we're going to put them on around Which one? Who is it? Her name starts with a D. Oh, okay. Yeah. Starts with a D. She didn't want me on the show. And how I knew about it was because Caller, who was very close with her because she, like they had a relationship because Caller's

father-in-law delivered Dorita's baby. So Caller after her and Dorita had a falling out, came and told us what was taking place and she said she don't want you there. She goes, I didn't know any better because I was just, you know, following the code. She was my friend. So long story short, I became on the show and oh my God, like we were just cool last week now. But again, you're not going to abuse Karen in front of me.

Right. That was that was a crazy iconic episode though. Your mouth bleeding and you just literally scream like I you would put the fear of God into anybody trying to get to her because it was just it was just like you know what scared of who always who are we supposed to be scared of like you know I'm saying like you know I had my sister's ex boyfriend wasn wasn't really a tough kid. You know, he went to jail for murder. You know why? He punched somebody, had a fight, punched somebody. The kid went down and he died because he hit his head. Anybody's tough in their own sense. Just, you know what I mean? The quietest person in the room could

be the toughest. You know what I'm saying? I'm not into all that rah rah shit, but if that, you're selling yourself as a character. Cool. Nobody's saying you didn't have your brawls back in the day. Fine. But a lot of that stuff, it was a real shit show. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of anim- It's sad because you guys were so iconic and just that

was a moment in time that was just like, that was really amazing TV. It was unscripted. It was unscripted. It was real raw emotions. Like you could tell you guys really had history and like, I don't want to say beef, but just like unresolved shit that you guys all brought to the table and it just played out on TV. And that's what made for such great TV. And I think it's so sad now because there's such a rift between you guys. You know, as far as the riff is concerned, if you really think about it, if it wasn't

for that show, none of these people would be hanging out and they didn't. They hung out when they were younger. They had a place. Like for example, Dorita was like my sister's friend and Karen's friend. I really didn't associate so much with them at that time. It was my boyfriend mode, but the whole thing is like, you know, when you sign up for this, they put you in these scenarios. That's why, like I said, when I watch your stuff, it's real because nobody's scripting it. They're not putting you they're not putting you bunny with the neighbor that you never would talk to. Right. Because they've signed on for the show. Right. You know, I can handle anything that's thrown to me. But sometimes it's like they had you to degree faking it's a, you know,

just funk it to fake it. However the fuck you say it it was just like i was dumbfounded i was like wait what like one time when i was on the show and they're like where's ramona i just signed up for the show they're like where's ramona karen's like oh i don't know she'll be back later karen didn't want to say where i was i was fucking getting arrested with my boyfriend at the time my fiance and so now we have to reenact this because obviously when this takes place, because nobody does, everybody doesn't know. It's not like big brother that the cameras are in your house. Yeah. So they're like, and I love him and I get it. And Adam, he's so great. He didn't, now he understands us, but when he was first working with us, he's like, who's Adam is he?

Adam, Adam love you, Adam. He is the producer of the show. And he's like, come on, boo boo, you know, you were crying. I was like, I wasn't fucking crying. Then I'm thinking to myself, after I went home after doing the scene because he had to reenact it, I'm like, is there something wrong with me? Because I didn't cry. Because they wanted me to call Karen. She's like, no, you were crying.

Go, no, I wasn't. And Karen's like, well, how would you do it? She'd be like, call me. Come here now, I wanna see you. We would never talk on the phone. I would never give it like I was arrested. We would never talk on the phone. Yeah. I would never, never give it like I was arrested. I would never say anything in general.

That's how we were brought up. So when that happened, so a lot of things on the show, like they put you in scenarios that you wouldn't be a part of. Right. Like the whole thing with Karen and Lee, it was dead, but it made good TV. So now you're bringing these two,

you're pitting these two women. Bringing up old wounds. And it's getting TV. So now you're bringing these two, you're pitting these two women. Bringing up old wounds. And it's getting worse. Yeah. And then, you know, he has a disgusting mouth, her husband, and he said a lot of bad things about Karen that, yo dude, when you broke up with her, you just wanted to go your own way.

It was what it was. Everybody went in peace. Now you're calling her all these things. You're calling her, you're calling our daughter. Like, we don't do that. Yeah. And it was sad. It was a lot of sad things, you know on the show Made up a treat or we were cool then one time her and call I had it like and then we were all like

Coming together to see if we could have certain things that when we want to renegotiate the contract and all the bullshit and I thought we were cool and I just Retweeted something that Carla said and she blocked me from then. So I'm just like, did I forget to send you a Ramadan card? Cause she, you know, she's Muslim. Did I forget to like, who's Muslim? Greta.

Oh wow. Did I forget to like, you know, say something to you that I, you know what I mean? Like, what did I do to you? Right. But it was because of that. So, and again, she was just looking for a way to like separate. You know what I mean? And again, nobody was ever trying to flex, you know, who they were on the show,

because when they did have this meeting, they said, so we're going to have the show and this is going to be the name of it. This girl deserves to be here more than any of you because, like I told you, my grandfather, who is the Karen's father, that's on my father's side. Then you have my real grandfather from the Donnie Brosco movie. I'm dating somebody that obviously just made the news and we were going to get him married on TV, but you know, he was in the life and you know, everything that took place.

My uncle died. Like there were real issues that took place, but I was never like that. Like nothing like I would. If we could all do something together, make money. What the why the hell not? It came a lot of jealousy. And I see that with other maybe housewife shows, but other housewife shows had amazing management. Right. Amazing that these women's are making bank.

Nobody walked off the show rich. Nobody helped you guys. It was just kind of like they just, I don't wanna, you know, I'll use the term loosely, but it was almost like they just used you guys for views. Well, I mean, you're in the industry now. There's no way that you could be a manager and be a producer of the show.

Right. It's double dipping. That's what we were up against. So even though your manager, does your manager get you deals and she's entitled to it? So whatever I brought in, it was like being an escort. I had to give it to you no matter what. And then at the end of it, what we found out, me and Karen, that Dread and Carla had

fired the management team, which was producer Jennifer Graziano, and we're supposed to be childhood friends, so they're not paying you, but us struggling moms are paying you. So Dreid is even making more money. Carla's even making more money because they're not giving to. When I was supposed to do the third season,

I was supposed to get a raise, and you were supposed to negotiate for me being in the opening. But you couldn't because it costs too much money because that will come out of your pocket. And then later on, it's a lot of shady business. A lot of shady business. a lot of shady business. And it got a little ugly for a minute when it like certain things took place when, you know, we quit or in my terms, I made sure that I got fired because there was a different clause in it

because, but it winds up in a sense, like if I would have, if I would have gotten fired, if I would have quit, then there were certain things I couldn't do, but they still blocked me on VH1 because that's where I was supposed to do something with the girl Tony from BMF. And she told me, she goes, you're black, bald and on VH1. She goes on MTV because I sold, I signed, I don't know what I was signing.

Signs over my likelihood. So I couldn't be on any other show, even though I was still part of dating somebody incarcerated because that's what the new BMF show was about. It was about all these women coming together, dating men. And I made a relationship with these girls. So I said, forget it. Whatever took place with the show and it was bad blood,

but nobody walked away rich. Not like it was, I made more money with my family staying home, my family giving me opposed to what I did on the show. So as much as I had issues with my family being strict, they really came through with everything else. So it's like, you know what I mean? So I was kind of very grateful.

Yeah. You know, do I, um, did I raise my children's differently? Yes. They need to know the truth. I'd never want them to be blindsided. I always told them, if there's anything you want to ask me, ask me. Whatever you're into, God forbid you get into trouble. Let me know. I'm always going to be, I'm going to yell because that's just what I do, but I'm always going to have your back.

That's how I am with our daughter. I'm just like, tell me before I find out from somebody else because if I find out from somebody else, you're in trouble. If I find out from you, you have a chance. You know, you could save them because you're find out from you, you have a chance. And you know, you could save them. Because you're young. I want somebody to have my back because I was always very sneaky. I had to grow up to be that way because it was either that or have a boring childhood. Yeah.

I wasn't, you know what I mean? Like, I wanted it. I want, and I'm glad that I got to experience like going out and going to do all these different things. And there were some situations we could have got pretty hurt. Yeah. You know, God watched us. I think that's part have got pretty hurt. Yeah. You know, God watch. I think that's part of growing up. Yeah. You know, God made sure that we were OK.

But the show and so many different outlets, it puts you in scenarios that you never, ever would have had yourself into. Like everything was a fucking party. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? And alcohol heightens things. And I'm sure, you know, emotions. Ego was the biggest thing. Yeah. Ego, ego, alcohol, fucking all of it.

I remember I was like, I wasn't being a key. I was being a keyboard warrior answering back because let me tell you again, when I came on the show, it was the first season, all the girls. So the way that they pitched me the second season was like the Italian Omarosa the Omarosa how she was on one of the reality shows? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Omarosa, yep. So they made me out to be like her.

So I'm like, now I'm going up against the fan's favorite because this Dorita is picking on my cousin. So I'm not going to stand by. First of all, there's no reason to fight. Yeah. You could talk it out. Like this could be, but now we got our egos are really exploding and this is what the people want and boom, boom, bop.

I'm like, oh God, please just let me just control this. You gotta see how people work. This was the height of Twitter. Twitter is rough. It has a rough crowd. But to remember this was the height of it. So my boyfriend's like, come on, we have dinner. I'm like, no, because people like,

and I'm like, people are saying, I go, and I go, this is the reason, what I tell them in person, this is the reason why people swallow their kids. Like in other words, they should have swallowed you all given them a blowjob. Your mother should have never had you. The frigging what do you call it hits me up. They're like, VH1, you can't talk like that. Why not? Do you see what they're saying me? So now you're even censoring what the hell I'm answering back in real life. Frigging Twitter. You know what I'm saying? So now what they're saying me. So now you're even censoring what the hell I'm answering back in real life. Freaking Twitter. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So now like they're watching you. That's why I won't sell our shows that I do that my, my production company does the bunny XO show on the meet the defaults. Cause I, you're just, you give up so much

control. Yeah. You're not going to control anything. The narrative editing is a motherfucker. Oh, for sure. They can make a whole fucking situation that isn't even there just from sound bites of things that you guys say. It's crazy. Well, that's what they did then. Later on, we stepped into some other, you know, into the light of say this word. You got to do it because they're your boss.

You're getting paid. Wow. And then they would place it someplace else. Wow. And then, you know, there were a lot of people. It's like entrapment. Yeah, like Adam was on our team, and he was great, and he understood what was going on.

But again, it was just, it started taking a better turn going into my second season. But then after that, that year, when we found out some stuff, I was like, I'm out. Like it was either gonna be this way or that way. Yeah. And I just got a bad taste because money is a lot of time the root of all evil.

It is. And that's what truly has happened. And people could say whatever they wanna say. They could go around town saying whatever they wanna say. I could give two shits because my, listen, I was very grateful because I got to support my children. But what people don't understand, with or without mob wives, I still made it.

Like the point of making it is, I got to raise my children. Yeah. I got to, I still, I live better than I lived before. A present mom. So whatever, you know, it got to raise my children. I got to live better than I lived before. So it got to be where one time I remember Renee, she's like, with the Twitter, again with the fucking Twitter, she's like, my sister. And she apologized, we worked things out.

Listen, when you speak to her, she has always have a soft spot in my heart because when my wife started, nobody had money like that. Ask her who gave her money to go to Vegas to when you went to California to go to the show. I handed her money. The poor girl that just came back had nothing. Who was taking the nail polish off your toes because you had to go in to get yourself clean. I wanted her to get better. So with or without the show, she'll always hold a soft spot in my heart. We didn't speak for each other for a while because she didn't know certain things. And when she got privy to it, things got better.

But one time she tweeted, she's like, yeah, my sister's fed you. I said, well, we'll back up the bus, baby. The only people that ever fed me was my mother's tit and maybe a boyfriend. Other than that, I've always fed myself. I've been working since I'm 14 years old. That was another thing. Everybody thinks like, oh my God, the mob. My parents made us work.

Karen worked, I worked. We weren't like- You know, like- Spoiled. We weren't like- Trust fund babies. A mellow soprano. Yeah.

Some people are. Renee never worked. So throughout this lifestyle, there's different ways that you handle in your house. My house was very strict. My house, we never discussed the word mob. I had to get a job. Karen's house wasn't as strict, but she had to get a job.

They wanted those foundations. Much as my father, I thank him for that because if I didn't, maybe I'd be lost. Poor Renee, she never had a steady job. She even tells me, she's like, you girls, you have a business. I'm so happy for you. She doesn't have any hate in her heart, but it just created a snowball of monsters. But I was very appreciative because it helped feed my children at that time. And I was fresh coming home to the second year.

But if people said to me, what would you rather do? Have a business knowing you're so successful or being in, you know, an everyday job that you know you could really like have a business. I would pick that because this comes in a lot of shit. And I'm not even, I'm not even like famous famous. So imagine the people that are truly famous. You know, I've had some stalkers here and there that, you know, Karen and I we own to pizzeria and I'm like, we thought this guy was really coming because the stuff that he

was saying, it was scary, you know, because we're out there now we can't like because when I go places I usually say where I am after. Not because I'm no big deal because there's weirdos. Well, you have to yeah people are so crazy. But in the pizzeria we were sitting ducks. Yeah. You know, so it was different, but I always said like listen these people that they're just out of their way to be mean. Yeah. Like the people online reading comments like, how does she remember? She was a baby. Another liar. Oh my God.

Her voice is so nasal. No shit, Sherlock. I'm supposed to get my fucking nose done because I have my nose inside his old cave. I think it gives you character though. No, but I love my nose. That's the whole thing. I want to find a person that is not going to change my nose. But inside I literally I was there the other day. He's like, how do you breathe? I go this is what I'm here for

He's like, oh no, it's like literally caved He's like you have the smallest canal, but my point is like your she's a nasal bitch She talks like the net no shit like what is your point? Like why why are you going out of your day to say that? I don't remember something when I was nine I totally do people I something when I was nine? I totally do. I remember when I was five and I went to jail. People on the internet are a different beast.

It's bullying. And this is why a lot of these kids- And that's why I stand up against it because I just don't think it's right, dude. It's not right. Yeah. And especially now that mental health is such a huge topic of conversation, I really think that these platforms need to start cracking down on bullies. It's not okay. It's not okay to just spew whatever the fuck you think out of your mouth that is harmful and

hurtful to somebody, especially with children on the internet. Are children supposed to be on the internet? No. The parents should definitely govern that a lot more, but you can't literally, you know, be over your kid's shoulder every fucking. You can't because they're gonna have a friend, they're gonna have somebody. Exactly. They're gonna get to it.

Yes, exactly. So it's like, I just, these platforms, I've been working with this foundation and I'm hoping to do a lot more with them, but they do a bunch of stuff for cyber bullying because it personally affected the man who runs the organization. So I just feel so strongly about it.

It's not okay what people say. And it's also about images. Like the only thing I commends Facebook about when they took away the likes, because a lot of, you know, little girls like, I'm not getting that many likes or people are like feeling bad for themselves. And it's very easy. For example, like your husband's song, Save Me. To me, I don't do drugs.

I don't drink, but I relate it into other ways because you could fall into depression. And I have fibromyalgia. So I had to step back from a lot of stuff. And here I am, not the girl going with all my friends to the dinners or seeing all my other friends. Because I was that person, my friends range from Queens to the city to all over. And I was always there for everybody going out. They're like, where's Ramona?

They didn't understand. But with that came a sense of like depression in a way. Because I wasn't that same girl anymore that used to laugh and what happened to her. So it's like, people don't get it how easily you could feel depressed on so many different levels. It doesn't have to be from actually substance abuse.

It could be from your inner, could be from autoimmune. Trauma. Trauma. Trauma. Well that's what they're saying, that autoimmune is caused by trauma. It's caused by trauma, yes. You know, how the hell did, nobody in my family that I know of has fibromyalgia

or neuropathy. I wind it up with both. That's from all the stress as a child. Like you fell in love with me, I wanna go to her, but I know it'd be so much pain. You ever see the woman, she's like, she takes all the stress out of you and she like basically like, this is one of those and I'm like you scream people cry yeah and she's in Cali

and I'm like am I ready for that but that's built up because that's opening a Pandora's box too once you open that up you have to deal with everything that you start feeling too so and it's like a lot of different things that I know that I have been within me But it has to be up to me when I'm ready. You also battled an eating disorder, correct? No, I was just always chubby. Oh I could have sworn that we had talked about an eating disorder But maybe I like um, did you know when I was younger? I was you know, a little bit overweight and I had that and but nothing like no Do you still battle with depression and anxiety now that you're older? I have my moments.

Do you do therapy? Because I asked Karen the same question and she said she's never done therapy. And I was blown away by that. Because I was like, how? Out of all the shit you guys have been through, I would think now in your lives, therapy would be just essential.

Well, to put it to you this way, when I was away in Jordan, my therapy was whatever I was allowed to listen to on YouTube because the music was, to a certain degree, was restricted. So it was music. Music was my therapy. That was my outlet. When I was younger, it was writing. When I came home, I didn't know if I was going

to be in trouble to go to jail. So I'm talking to this guy, and I'm like, he's a therapist. I'm like, this is some bullshit. Because unless I'm really ready, I can tell you whatever to make this work in my favor. But I think the therapy that I would need, it goes back to the issues of abandonment and stuff like that.

And I think I have to be fully ready. Yeah, to open those. Because it goes into a lot of other things. There's no reason why I should remember what that jail sounds like. There's no reason why I should remember how cold it was. Again, I don't remember what I ate two days ago. I do need therapy, but I also think it's really important about finding the right person. I don't know if I trust anybody.

I'm like, here we go, back to the Sopranos. He found her. A lot of people, and I just feel this day and age with therapy, they're like, here's a pill. Like with fibromyalgia, here's a pill. I'm like, oh, so you want me to take Lyrica? Do you know Lyrica is for people that have seizures? It's a fucking bandaid. I don't need a bandaid, dude. I need like, if you could help me, fine. I'm not into band-aids. I like to keep a law. That's why I do holistic that's why I always do holistic Eastern medicine not Western medicine because Western medicine all they want to do is throw pills. Big farm. They tried to put me on fucking blood pressure pills last year and it came down to the fact that

I was allergic to rice. Wow. And if I had not advocated for myself and done blood work and studied and did all the shit on my own I would have been on fucking blood pressure pills. That's why I said you're smart as fuck. I appreciate you, but I just knew that it wasn't my blood pressure. I knew something was triggering it, you know? And you have to be your own advocate when it comes to your health. Well, this is what it is, because I'll relate to you.

I'll go into a meeting with the doctor and he'll tell me something like, I'll get this, but I'll forget. So I get all the things you're saying and I can relate to it, but I'm like, this bitch is a point about everything. She knows how to say all the words. She'll be like, she does, she knows her research. But like for me, I'm all about being holistic. And it was so funny because Karen, like she tries to bust my balls. She'd be like, they had pizza last week. She's like, you want pizza? I was like, nah. She goes, why? Because you want to be skinny because

you're going on bunny. I'm like, no jerk off. I can't eat cheese for another three weeks. Or the gluten. Cheese and I can't do steak right now because my cholesterol is through the roof and I'm trying to take my blood because I'm testing it again because I don't want to go on goddamn medicine. I had an issue with my heart. This guy's putting me on everything. I'm like for the rest of my life. Yes they will and they have no problem doing it. Because it's money. They get paid off of it. Well, they get paid to keep you sick. Big Pharma doesn't make money off healing people.

So it's like, they want to keep you sick. But you have to be your own advocate. The best thing, and everybody on my list knows this, I advocate for getting your own blood work done. You can go to any fucking any time labs. They'll give you your blood work. But there's an extensive blood you have to get done. I forgot what it's called, it's a different test.

When I had gone to just one doctor, he did more than what the regular doctor would do. I forgot what it's called again, I'm not good with all the names. Yeah, all the panels, you have to do hormones, you have to do the heart, you have to do, they're all separate panels, and it's expensive. But it's like, you have to do that unless, you have to do like they're all separate panels and it's expensive but it's like you have to do that unless or you're going to be stuck taking pills like you have to advocate for yourself.

To be truly healthy in America you need to have money. Vitamins cost a shitload of money. They're only a couple hundred a month. It's so sad. You have to make sure that you know when I was scared shitless about two years ago I thought like I was gonna have a heart attack they were gonna put a stint the whole nine. He put me on cholesterol medicine and then with this new doctor I saw,

he goes, did he ever bother to check you again? He goes, your cholesterol's too low, get off of it. And I said, holy fuck. And then they're like, do you make money off of this? So I was like, you know what, never again. So I try to do things where I could heal myself because I'm responsible, nobody else really. the best thing that you can do for yourself and it was it was very hard for me but I had to do an elimination diet and I

haven't had sugar in over a year and it is the best thing I've ever done for my life I'll eat gluten here and there but I changed my entire diet last year and it was the most healing thing I've ever done. You know that I put a post about this sugar is harder to get off of than cocaine. Oh yeah. So for me that's my issue. Coconut sugar. Coconut sugar but again this is my problem about growing up when we maybe this is what you're talking about but the eating disorder I knew to stay away from alcohol I knew to stay away from drugs. Here everybody's like if I would have known that sugar could lead to, which in my family there's diabetes and there's all these other issues,

high blood pressure, I would have stood away from it because I was so scared. But no, here's a cookie, here's an M&M, all this other stuff, we didn't know that. So now it's like I'm too late in the game and I'm like. No, but you're not. No, no, but you've known it. So now, do I, like something you said about your husband, like

somebody had said to you about which I was commending you or like, does it bother you that he drinks and he smokes and you said whenever he's ready. Yeah. If he wants to go clean, he will. The same thing I'm eliminating. I'm doing better choices, but I know when I'm fully ready, it's going to come because I know at the end, if I don't, I could lose a fucking toe. Don't be losing toes. I don't want to be this, you know, that person like here I come with, you know, his grandma, but she's got no toe

and listen that ass with a walking chair will be hot. Okay, wear those little body suits. You'll be good. bling the fucking walker out. No, but you just you have to be your own advocate and it's all about what you put in your body I look at the glass bottle years ago. Everything was glass. Yeah, but now Plastic plastic. Yep, you go in the freezer It takes put shit into the water all of the sun this shit in the water But now all we can't because it's dangerous. Yeah Apple Apple was always with glass. All of a sudden the motherfuckers want plastic. Yeah. It's just because it's easier. Yeah.

But they have to make us sick because they make the money off of it. Yeah. If you know, you know. Yeah, absolutely. I pre I can preach this all day long. We could talk about this all day long, because it's like one of my favorite topics is health, because you become obsessed with it. As you get older, you realize you're not fucking immortal. Immortal. You know, you you have to do things to make sure that I think what really struck a chord was inheriting

custody of both of my parents as they're dying and I got to see what they're dying what what my mom died from and I get to see what my dad is dying from and that's a wake-up call Yeah, you know and your own health suffers from it too And you just get to a point in life where you're like, you know what, I don't want to be like this. I want, when I'm old, I don't want to have to worry about my kid taking care of me. I want to be able to still have a good mind

and somewhat of like a little bit of health. So I was like, if I start now, maybe I'll be on the road to redemption by the time I'm fucking 70. Fix a couple of things that need to be restoring and just kind of get a little bit of a clean path. Yeah. It is what it is. And that was one of the things that I find maybe in a sense that, yes, I got fibromyalgia,

I got neuropathy, but I got that after the show. And again, it was built up trauma. And the show, it led me into after that to start meditating and start making intention candles and just like doing certain things to find my peace where I knew that if I would have stood on that show, it never would have been because that shit was a lot of times people don't get it's like wasn't didn't end when you would just say, okay, everybody go home, see you tomorrow. We all lived in the same area, bunny.

But then it also makes you think, gee, if you're really about it, why don't you come ring my fucking doorbell? You know what I'm saying? So it was kind of like, if you were really smart, if they really, we could have done that. We could have continued if this is what you want to do, but you're only going to make it so escalated when the cameras are rolling. But it was like, my biggest thing going on camera was like, okay, how am I going to look and what's my outfit? Other than that, I could be myself more than 24-7. I don't have a problem. But with that, I think after leaving it and everything else, I don't think if I would

have had all these issues going on, I could have remained. And I think I found peace after because with the meditation, like making candles, like I have a whole company, it led me into a different direction where I'm at peace. If anybody asked me like, Hey, like this was super cool. I, I like, I'm a big fan of yours. It was awesome to do some things. I'm very selective. I have to have like, kind of like some type of feel like, okay, I could connect to it.

Because other than that, it's like, you know, things that you saw and it was like, bring mobbys back. Do you really want to see girls either in their late forties or early fifties fighting? Yeah. Come on. It's like grandma's a cop. Stop. Just slow it down.

Like, what could we really fight about? Hey, we're not getting social security in a couple of years. Like, it's ridiculous, but these bitches will fight, but it's ugly. It's not realistic. It's like, when do you stop? And everybody on the place, like, you know, on this whole thing, if they wanna talk about it, not everybody has an ailment.

Well, one of these bitches have something going on. So is it really normal to really, so everyone's like, I think sometimes things, they're done. Like, just let them trust. Like, you know, every time they do have to do a remake of this movie. Just sometimes it's best keep it original. Yeah.

So you know we appreciate the fans like hey could it come back? If certain things would go people probably would want to make it back. But what are you making it back for? You loved it because of the fighting. Right. Gotta ask yourself America. You really want to see old people fighting? Like I don't know.

You know what I mean? Clip that, Jason. So what can we expect from you? Like, you spoke about a book or- A book will definitely be coming in. Like I said, it's all about timing. I can't control what God has, you know, people living or dying. Well, shout out your company and stuff like that.

I do have a spiritual line, spiritual slinger. I make intention candles. I have fun just going on social media. I do have a lot of nice fans, and they're so appreciative of me. Sometimes I'll do a charity and stuff like that. And that really touches me. You want me to be a part of it? Of course I will.

Because if we don't help each other, who's going to help you? Like we're all we got people, this universe is one time around the ship and you don't want to be in the water sinking. You want to be on the boat where we all could survive. People are very, very slow and mean to help. Like if you want someone to help, it's like slow motion. If I feel something is a real good cause, I'm on it. You give me a real good go fund, I'm down for it. You know what I'm saying? So I'm always still active on my pages. I am more in love with just watching Tik Tok because you people are incredible. Like you

it like you, but other people like, Oh yeah, no, they're great. Like there's people that you don't even know. I don't even know about. And they have like 200 million my doors. Like you don't know this guy or how about the lady she's eating the foods and she's the sounds of the emoji like wild shit. It's crazy. There are so many nooks and crannies of Tik Tok that I can't even fathom them. And that was one of the reasons why they wanted to take it down because it goes in every area. It goes in. It's universal. It goes in every, and then you're like, shit, they're learning this shit in China.

I'll be scrolling and there'll be people in like the middle East somewhere sleeping in sleeping bags and fucking another thing is like a bunch of like Indians with face paint and like tribal stuff and like doing a fricking rain dance. And you're like, wow, is this real? Like you only read about this in your history books. It's wild. No, it's crazy. So I'm like, I like some, I'm like,

my friends like you have to do more and people love you. I'm like, I'm like so amazed. I'm like, now I'm like scrolling through this shit. Like I can't compete with this. This is wild. Yeah, but you just being you, I told Karen that too. I was like, you guys have to get on TikTok because you guys do have such a cult.

I am, but not to like, like I said, I do do it, right? But I know you like, you're like, you have it like, it's a, it's a business. And that's what I'm like, cause there's a lot, people don't realize you have to be a talent. You have to have perfect editing and you have to have content. And that's what like my hats, I totally tip them for everyone because I'm like, there's one girl like she could cook. And I'm like, but then you have to get with the right person to edit.

And I'm like, it's wild. It's a fascinating world. Yeah, it's wild. I like it more than Instagram because it's not censored. Right. They'll give you so much more. Instagram is my lowest platform. I don't even, I only deal with Instagram because I've had it for so long.

But TikTok is my jam. Facebook is my jam. Instagram, I just feel like we're so under the thumb there. And Twitter's own. I literally got a report. No, not Twitter anymore. Yesterday can't do it. And Twitter's own. Same people. I literally got a report. No, not Twitter anymore. Yesterday.

Facebook. But see, they don't censor you on Facebook, because Instagram and Facebook are the same people. So they ish. They do, but not as bad as Instagram. Like yesterday, I reposted somebody's story about how they put cayenne pepper in their husband's lube because they caught him cheating.

They flagged that and took it for hate speech. And I'm like, how is that a hate speech when she's just speaking about, you know, like it's just, and then you're at their mercy because if you get a certain amount of flags, they'll take care of account and then you can't like, Mike has been taken twice before. Imagine it's not by a hacker. It's by the actual company. Yeah. No crazy. It's crazy. Ramona. It's been so nice just sitting here. I feel like I could talk to you forever. Well, I probably could tell you more about your life than you know, you know, because I'm a bunny stalker. Like, I just love the shit out of her.

I love you. It's amazing. Like, the whole thing and how you sat there and you just like make the whole family work. And that was another thing too. Like, I have a stepdaughter that I took when she was 13. And that was really hard. Wow.

And you know, she became very successful. She became a lawyer. Her mom, her mom told her, she said, if you, um, I wanted her to go to Disney world, the girl, her mom was very religious and she wanted to join basketball. She wasn't allowed to wear shorts. She wanted to do this. I said, can I take her now? Mind you, fresh with a little baby, I'm 26 years old, have a little baby.

She's 13. So there's only 13 years apart from my stepdaughter. She's like, can I take her to Disney? Ramona, if you take her, you keep her. If I take her to Disney, I got to keep her? So I kept her. So I started my marriage with a little baby and a 13 year old. That was a shit show. Because it was like kind of breaking her out of the curses that she stepped into with her mom. And one of the things was bringing that trauma into the house. And then what she would get away with her mom being sick all the time and not going to school. Then we had a cutting episode. It was a lot. It was a lot that went on. But again, I knock on wood because I always tell

her, and not like trying to gloat, but I'll be like, I'm one of the reasons why you became a lawyer. And I don't think you should become a lawyer. She worked for ACS, which is for children's advocating for children's had that had a top position with the courts right under the judge now went back to ACS to help kids again. So to me, like I was put there to help her. You were her, she had no out now she's there to help her because she had no outlet. Now she's advocating. Yes. The kid had no outlet. Her mother was one way or the highway. And at the end, it's like now she's going through her own type of trauma. And again,

she was a kid that went through therapy and I knew she was working it. But again, she had to do what she needed to do. Now does she need therapy because she's going through her own divorce? I don't push her. I make her do what she needs to do. Because I feel like if you push it, that's why I said you have to be ready for therapy. And you have to be very selective. Therapy is not for everybody. Because also too, he could be half a kook. You gotta make sure that you get the right people. It's sad to say you have to do your homework. Some of the craziest humans become psychiatrists. And then also too, it's like, what makes you better to tell me about me? Like not even being defensive. Like, no, people don't really realize if they were in your shoes, what they would do. Yeah. No, it's accurate. You know

what I mean? Like for me, they're like, well, you really were going to get married to a man in jail. At that time I was, and we were going to have it like kind of televised in a way, because at that moment I was in true love and it was meant to be like we did the whole thing on the show. Like we went to go see the catering hall and all the, but certain things, real life took place between him and I, and I didn't do the show the next season. So it never happened, but like people always want to look like you, like you got 10 heads, but you wouldn't even know how to operate these heads if you're in this body. Couldn't walk a mile in the shoes.

Yeah. Ramona, why don't you tell people where they can find you online? Ramona Rizzo on Instagram. The real Ramona Rizzo on TikTok. And that's about it. Thank you so much for coming on today. Your story is amazing.

And I just hope that everybody in this series that everybody can see that you guys are like real women behind the drama and that you know everybody loved mob wives and I thought that was cool but I'm I'm really hoping that everybody takes away little bits and pieces of you guys as stories and just falls in love with you even more. Yeah, just follow the you know if you want to be fashionable think of his aesthetic but trust me nobody wants the mob wife life.

It's nothing but a box of tissues and a lot of prison visits and heartache. Nobody wants it and a lot of wasted visits and heartache. Nobody wants it. And a lot of wasted money because the money that you made, you gotta give it back to lawyers. And you lose nothing is more precious than time. You know, nothing. So people like, I wanna be with a gangster. No, you don't.

It's a waste. It's a waste of a life. Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Love coming. You're gonna have to come

back and visit me when you write that book. Sure. I will. All right. Get it to your girlfriend. All right. Thank you guys for tuning into another episode of Dun Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye.