Dumb Blonde - The Internet Owes Denise Richards an Apology

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Denise Richards is finally telling HER side of the story, and nothing is off-limits.From becoming Hollywood's "it girl" in Starship Troopers, Wild Things, and as a Bond girl to surviving relentless tabloid headlines, a highly public divorce from Charlie Sheen, an abusive marriage, and becoming a special-needs mama, Denise opens up like never before.She and Bunnie get real about facelifts, fillers, beauty standards, and why Denise believes celebrities should be more honest about cosmetic work. She also reflects on breaking into Hollywood, the truth behind her most iconic roles, and what it was really like navigating fame at the height of her career.Denise gets candid about raising daughters in the spotlight, co-parenting with Charlie, protecting her kids from the media, and adopting her youngest daughter, Eloise, who has a rare chromosome disorder and is primarily nonverbal. She shares how Eloise completely changed her perspective on life, happiness, and what truly matters.For the first time in this much detail, Denise opens up about her most recent marriage—the love-bombing, the slow loss of control, the physical and emotional abuse, the financial manipulation, the restraining order, and the court battle that ultimately ordered her to pay spousal support to her abuser. She shares why she stayed, how she finally got out, and why she's speaking out now for anyone who feels trapped or afraid.If you've ever been misunderstood, villainized, or felt like your voice didn't matter, this conversation will stay with you long after it's over. This is Denise Richards unfiltered: a survivor, a mother, a working actress, and a woman finally choosing herself.Stay until the end, because after everything Denise has survived, she and Bunnie start talking about healing, future love, and planning a girls' trip you'll definitely want an invite to.Watch Full Episodes & More: YouTube

Let's be real for a second. Bank fees are one of those things that just drive me crazy. You're already trying to get ahead and then your bank turns around and charges you for existing? No thanks. That's honestly why I like chime. No monthly fees, no minimum balance fees, no overdraft fees. It just keeps things simple. I also love that you can earn 5% cash back in a category you choose, like gas or groceries. And you're already spending money on that stuff anyway. And on top of that, you're building credit through your everyday purchases with no credit check. If you're trying to be a little smarter with your money, CHIME savings account earns a rate that's nine times the national average,

so your money can work a little harder for you. Plus, life happens if you're ever in a pinch. Eligible members can use SpotMe to overdraw up to $200 fee free, and I think a lot of us can appreciate having that little bit of breathing room. I just like companies that make life a little easier instead of more complicated and Chime is one of them. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking.

Head to chime.com slash bunny. That's chime.com slash B-U-N-N-I-E. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chim's bank partners, qualifying direct deposits required,

terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. Is this thing on? You guys, welcome to another dumb one podcast. I am in studio with an absolute legend who I have been wanting to interview for so long and we're here in L.A. And I'm finally sitting face to face with my girl, Denise Richards. How are you, baby? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. No, the pleasure is mine. Like, thank you so much for just, you know, making time for me in your

day to come out and do this interview because I'm just like, I'm so excited. I went down a wormhole about you last night. And, oh, well. No, girl, I've got them too, so don't worry about it. No, I literally went down a wormhole. And what I discovered was is there's two Denise Richards. There's one that the tabloids have painted. And then there's the woman that is actually Denise Richards, who has the hugest heart and is just so kind and so sweet and so loving. And I'm hoping that today at the end of this interview, everybody gets to discover that one and not what the tabloids say.

Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Absolutely. But first off, we need to talk about what's really important here. we got to talk about the space lift yes sister because i'm i'm seeing it in person now it looks so good so it is yours and i was so happy to see that you were open about yours too yeah absolutely i mean i first of all and this is no shade to anybody in the industry but if you're going to get work done just fucking be honest about it yeah and i understand if there's some that don't want to say

anything but if you're asked about stuff i think to say i couldn't say nothing you know No, I feel like our job, quote unquote, as people that are online and pushing a narrative of our lives, I feel like we owe that to the public. That might just be me, but I just feel like we, especially as women, because there's such a false beauty standard of like trying to like uphold. And I never want a little girl to look at me and be like, I want to look just like her. It's like, girl, I don't even look like me. You know, it's like. Yeah. So I always want to be honest.

And the pressure of other women, too, seeing other women. women. And I wanted to be honest with that too, because I also want to know what's everyone using, what are they doing? And, you know, even my sister, she lives in Montana and she works at a hospital. She has a completely different job than I do. And, you know, I'll tell her certain things about other people that I know she'll keep a secret. And she said, it made her feel so much better to see that more and more women coming out and saying different things. Because I had, I got my implants when I was 19 years old and I was so private about it. I never said anything to anyone. And I think the very first time it was Howard Stern asked me a question. And some people were saying, well,

you never spoke about it. I'm like, well, no one never flat out asked me. Right. You know, yeah. So you didn't lie. Right. I didn't offer the information. But then when somebody did, you were honest. Yeah. And, you know, so I, I love that you did. And I, you know, I think it's good to share, you know, what we're doing and different, you know, serums and peptides or whatever, you know, someone does. So, and yours looks so good. So does yours. I'm like looking at your face it's immaculate. What exactly did you have done? Because I'll tell you what I had done also. So I told, so I went to Dr. Ben Talley. And originally I had been thinking about doing just my neck. And then it's the neck that always goes first ladies. It starts to the neck. Yes, always.

And then a friend of mine, she's very well known and she's not public about hers. And she said to me, you have to do the whole thing. I'm like, I don't want to do the whole thing. I was scared. I've never done anything. I've done a little Botox. And then I did some fillers. I felt like I looked like 300 pounds when I did those. No, and me too. Yeah. I'll emphasize on that whenever you are done telling me about your story. Because fillers, I don't think people realize they fill up with water and they literally like expand your face. Yeah. I was. Yeah, so I didn't do much. And then when I saw Dr. Ben and he explained things to me and I thought, you know what? The only analogy I could give is like if you remodel a house and you do one room and the room looks great, but it doesn't match the rest of the house. And so I told him, you're the artist. His work was impeccable. I saw so many before and afters. And I just said, do it you want to do. I was terrified. But he did everything. He did the lower, the neck, the lower face, the upper, the brow lift. The only thing he didn't do were my lower lids.

He did my upper lid. But, I mean, he did the whole thing. And I'm sorry, I don't know if you had the brow lift, but that is no freaking joke with the pain. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about the pain because my recovery. I'm still numb. Are you still numb? I'm numb.

Like right here. Just under my chin. Here, I'm good. When did you have yours? I had mine done in March. Okay. I had my. Oh, so you're still.

So I had mine done exactly a year ago. Oh, okay, okay. So it gets better. Yeah. And that was the other thing when I was told, oh, it'll, it gets better as you heal. And I'm like, how? With gravity, how are we going to get better? And it does.

It's like your face settles or something. It was the best thing I did for myself. No, it looks phenomenal. And I don't think people realize how big of a surgery it is. Like the recovery, I thought that I was going to be up and walking around and like a month and no I mean I was down for the count I had to like go into hiding for a little bit like it was a lot and so freaking painful it's painful did so with your browlift were your incisions up in here yes and then you had to pull those things out did you have to pull the stuff out of your head no I went somewhere

though he makes his patients go to a recovery place at least a few days and I stayed a week and I'm so glad that I did I don't know how anyone can take care of themselves after even have someone it's scary you look frightening. Yeah. No, it's Frankenstein. I had my whole team had to take care of me. And every day, they looked at me and they were like, I'd wake up and they'd be like, it looks better. I'm like, no, it doesn't. I know. It's, it's, I trusted the process. And I, he, um, I feel like that was the most painful. I wasn't prepared for that pain. No. And I feel I have a high tolerance of pain. Yes, ma'am. Um, but he explained, though, because some people, people that get the brow lift, their incision is right here and you can see it. So I love that

it's up in here about shitballs. Does that hurt? Yeah, yeah. No, it's terrible. Mine was the neck. I felt like I was choking. Did you get that sensation where you felt like, I think my head hurt so bad I didn't notice the neck. She's like, girl, I had other problems. But it didn't that pain. Well, I heard right before I went in, oh, your head could hurt. And I was like, oh, how bad can, you know, I was a little nervous about that. And then when I was told I'll be all wrapped up and I thought, am I going to feel claustrophobic? But you're so out of it from that surgery. It's like I didn't even know my head was wrapped really until the next day and you took it up. But yeah, it's a headache that you can't explain. It's not like a migraine. It's like you just had your face peeled back

headache. Yeah. Unless you've had your face peeled back, if you don't know what it feels like. I know. But it does, you know, the first night was the roughest. for me. Yeah. I don't know for you. Mine was the first night because the anesthesia just didn't agree with me. I was under for like about six hours and it was, I think I was too. Yeah, it was brutal. And then I think like around day six or seven, I was just like, I went off this ride. And my doctor was like, you're on it for the next year. I was like, fuck, I went off this ride. But circling back to the filler situation, I just want to, for the girls at home that are listening that do get filler, just be careful when you get it in your face, because it literally, it expands, it gets lumpy, it migrates to other places in your face,

and then you end up having to get it melted and getting a facelift anyway. So if I were you, I would just do minimal Botox, and then when the time comes, get that stuff built back. I agree. And you know, I always said I wouldn't get a facelift. And I'm one that says, never say never. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm never getting it.

Because I didn't want to not look like myself. Right. But. I think you look amazing. Thank you. You look like just refreshed and, like, you look young. Like, it looks so good. much. I'm going back on the eighth because he didn't do under my eyes either. And so I'm going back

on the eighth to get the skin pinch under the eyes and some more fat transfer. So I like, and then I'm done. I swear. You look amazing. And that's the thing too. I feel when you go to someone good, it's, and just because someone's a surgeon, this is the other thing that I think it's important for girls and young women and women that aren't as young to know that it's, you have to go to someone really reputable and skilled just because they're a plastic surgeon doesn't mean they're good. Yes. You need to look at their work before and months after. Don't look right after.

Look like six months after, a year after. Like you want somebody who's going to do natural work. You don't want to look like cat lady when you're coming out of. Definitely. And you look like you, but same thing, refreshed and like a younger version. I feel like it's never enough. You know, like I feel like we're our worst critics because we're always looking at ourselves on cameras. Yeah, for sure.

We're women. We're never happy. And if we don't make comment on it, someone else will anyway. So if you don't sign your flaw, you'll see it. Listen, I'm so tired of the fucking internet, man. I'm tired of it. All right. So let's circle back and let's talk about before Hollywood got a hold of you.

You're born in Illinois and your family moved to California and you were a cheerleader. Can we like go back to, you know, when Denise was just before Denise was. known as Denise Richards. Yeah, I grew up in Illinois. My dad worked for the phone company. We were, you know, my dad was just hardworking. We didn't have money. My mom was stay-at-home mom. They got married. My dad was 21. My mom was, I think, 16 or 16 and 20. They had me at 17 and 21. So he was just out of Vietnam. And, you know, they were young parents. Wow. He was a Vietnam vet. He's a Vietnam vet. Yeah, right after he got out, he and my mom got together and then got married and had me and then my sister were a year and a half apart.

And so we just grew up. We were, I just had, you know, I don't even know what normal is, but just a, well, we were part of the Nielsen family for people that don't know. Back then, that's how they saw which TV shows were popular. They put a little Nielsen box on our TV. We were your typical All-American family of Four. Yeah. So they could see the ratings and things. So, you know, my mom had dinner at 6 o'clock every night. We had to make sure we were there at weekends. We were family time.

We went to church every Sunday. I was raised Catholic. And then my dad saw a TV show, Battle of the Network Stars. It was this competition show for people that don't know in the late 80s of celebrities that would compete. And it was in January. And my dad could not believe because he was climbing telephone poles in the winter in Illinois with blizzards and stuff. And he just got so tired of the weather. and up and moved our family after he saw people were wearing shorts in California.

Don't you love how simple life was back then? Yeah. And literally moved us. I had just finished my freshman year in high school. It was such a hard move for me to make that transition. And then in high school, my sister and I, we both all, we always had the same job together. We worked at Hagenhaz and Baskin-Robbins. I bagged groceries at Albertsons and did all that. And then my mom entered me into a model search. And I came in second. And an agent from L.A. saw me and signed me.

And so I started driving up to L.A. and started modeling, doing teen magazine and stuff like that. And then I went to New York or Japan right after I graduated high school. I can't even believe my parents let me go. Yeah. I mean, shit, if they knew really how that was. But I went. How was it? How was it?

You know, I was so naive. I was just, I was a very sheltered. My parents really sheltered my, My sister and I, my mom was raised in a very abusive family and my dad, you know, his brother had a lot of drug addiction. And so they really sheltered my sister and I. My mom passed away years ago, but she said before that she did that, you know, on one hand, she felt that she sheltered my sister and I a little too much because I was so, I was so

naive. I was always had a good gut instincts about people and had a good, how to good, how to, how to, how head on my shoulders. I never got into any, you know, drugs or alcohol or the wrong people. I was just, I was too scared because my dad put the fear of God in us with that. And so I, when I started modeling in Japan, it was, what's interesting is I was, I was very flat back then. I couldn't even fit into a Victoria's Secret Brass. And yeah, I was really tiny. But that was the model look back then also. That's what people wanted. And well, actually, this was no, that, yeah, this was, kind of like it was Kate Moss before Kate Moss but it was like Cindy Crawford the voluptuous body

the cosmopolitan cover that kind of thing yeah and so in Japan it worked because they well they wanted me to do lingerie and it's funny years later I did Playboy and all of that back then I remember but how old were you I was 18 but I looked 15 yeah I was I looked so young and I told the agency, I'm not going to model bras and underwear. And they almost dropped me. But I was making money with some of the other jobs that I did there. So they kept me. My dad was ready to fly out there and bring me home because he thought it was like something else. Did you go out there by yourself? I did with the modeling agency. Like they came and scouted girls in L.A. And then brought a bunch of us out there. But I flew there by myself, which I can't believe it. Like I didn't know anything.

Yeah. I was just so naive. town girl on a flight to Japan. Yeah. They don't take care of us the way they, I think, told the parents that they do as far as security and stuff like that. We were really on her own. And then I went to New York after that. But I always wanted to act.

And so I just moved back to L.A. And then I lived in several different places and just got an agency. I was signed with the children's division, Harry Gold, Tracy Gold, the actress who was on growing pains. Her dad had an agency. And I played like 14, 15 years old. And because I was over 18, at that point I was like 20. I was able to work long hours without having to worry about that. And so I just did build my resume doing even one line here. What was the? Saved by the Bell was one of my first jobs. And that's how I got my sag card between that and Dugie Hauser. I got Taft-Hartley with one and then the sad card with the other. Your lore goes on forever. Like when I discovered, like, you did married with children, saved by the bell. I mean, like, you did 90210.1.

Like, this was like the icon. This was like when Hollywood was like Hollywood. I feel like, like it's not the same anymore. And I feel like you got to be a part of just history. I'm so grateful for that time. And I think a lot of other actresses and actors that I know that, you know, we would, it's such a nostalgic time driving around with our Thomas guy. there was no, you know, ways back then.

And yeah, we would just go. There was like a pilot season, you know, and during that time of year, you would hope you book a pilot. And because I was able to build up my resume, I was able to, you know, audition for other jobs, but I was so green. And but I was so focused. Like, I was so really loved doing it and had my acting classes. And then married with children, the producers, cast a pilot. and I auditioned for that and got it.

We thought, oh, I'm married with children. It'll go to series. I didn't. And then Aaron Spelling did a pilot. And this was around the, you know, Melrose Place and 902 and O. God, I loved Melrose Place. I was a huge Melrose Place fan. I was too.

And the 902 and O, I did both of those shows as a guest star, too. And I was so scared working with all the actors. I was so intimidated. And it was harder for me to do a line. And just like, I was terrible. terrified. Really? Yes. I was just so nervous. Yeah, because sometimes, like a lot of those jobs, I only had a line or two, you know, and that to me was harder to do than a scene. Because you had to like really nail it. Well, yeah, and it's like you don't want to overdo the one or two lines.

You don't want to be too overzealous. But, yeah, but and then I, so we booked the pilot with Aaron spelling a bunch of us and it shot. It was called Pure 66 and it shot in Florida. And we thought, this is going to be the next Melrose place and it didn't get picked up. What does that feel like? Like when you pour your all into like a role and then it doesn't get picked up, is it like hard. Yeah. First of all, getting the job like at that time.

Right. No one knew who I was. And so I'd have to audition several times to, you know, read with other actors. So then you get the part and you're so excited. And then especially at the level of Aaron Spelling, who has, you know, everything television. And same with the producers of married with. children at the time, Mary, but children was doing so well. You'd think, oh, this will get picked up and be a huge hit. And then it didn't. And it's just such a letdown. But I always felt, too,

every job that I didn't get, that one job that I did, it was so worth, like, you know, busting my ass and just working really hard and learning. And even doing one line on set, sometimes I'd wait around for 12 hours before they got to me. And I would really watch the other actors and try and learn. Because an acting class, I felt like they didn't teach us hitting your mark and doing the one that I went to. And those are the little things that were great for me to watch other actors and really try to learn. And then Starship Troopers came. We just, Paul Verhoeven, actually I auditioned for, I came close with showgirls.

And then. Oh, with Elizabeth. Yeah. That movie, to this day, is still one of my favorite movies because I'm a Vegas girl. I know. So, like, you know, during my gender. of growing up, I'm 46. That was like, you know, me being a dancer and stuff like that. So that was like my, um, withering heights.

You know, like that was like my iconic movie that you look up to whenever you think of like movies growing up. And where were you when that came out? Like I was in Vegas. Yeah. And I think, what year did that come out? Do we know? I might have already been 90s. Okay. So I like 95, 96. Oh. So, uh, I think it came out in 1995. We had them look it up. So I was. I was 15, but I was on my way to be in a stripper, you know? So growing up in Vegas back then, dancing was so much more glamorous than it is now, like, and it wasn't so oversaturated. So I always say that if you grew up in Vegas in that era, a lot, not everybody, but a lot of girls wanted to be either a showgirl or a dancer.

And if you couldn't make it being a show girl, you became a dancer. So that, what role did you? Elizabeth's role. Oh, wow. Yeah. So when I auditioned for that and then when Starship, came around audition for that obviously and that was a long process over a few months they went everywhere um casting and then it came down to like i went in probably five or six times caspar and i

at the end it was just us screen or yeah we did a screen test together and we were like uh we found it was just us and we're like well if we don't get it we really fucked up you know what's so crazy is that um initially the movie didn't do great but then now it's like known as one of the greatest satrical sci-fi films ever made. Like, it's a cult classic. I know. It's so funny how I just started going to Comic-Con's about a year and a half ago with them, with the cast from Starship.

And it's just so humbling meeting the fans and how their kids watch it. My kids haven't even seen the movie. I don't even, I think for a long time they didn't even know I was in it. I think it's because your mom, you know? So it's like, we see you every day. We don't need to see you on the movie screen. It was like when I wrote my book, my family didn't even read it until I was like, can you guys read the book, please?

You know? Yeah. But I think it's because they're just, they know the real us. So it's like they don't need to, you know, see our art, I guess is what you could say. I agree. It's funny because they don't even know half the stuff I've been in. Sammy saw a TikTok of me on friends. And she was like, Mom, you did friends.

And I said, yeah, because why didn't you tell me? And I said, well, what am I supposed to say? Oh, by the way. I did friends. Let's pivot real quick. before we get into your wild things era, and talk about your girls because I follow, it's Sammy. Yeah.

I follow Sammy on TikTok. I love her. She's spicy. She's very spicy. But you know what? I feel like, and we can cut this out if you want me to, but I feel like she's kind of Charlie's karma in a way. You don't have to cut it out.

Yeah. I feel like she gives him a run for his money, you know? And he needs that, I think. No, he does. Yes. Because she, out of all the kids, I feel stands up to him the most. And, you know, and he does need it. You know, we all do.

Yes. And, but, yeah, she's, she's, I love that she, I wish I had her confidence when I was her age. However, I do wish sometimes she filtered herself a little bit when she's saying stuff sometimes. You're like, can we not have another headline, please? Right. But I'd rather her be the way she is than, you know, have to, I love that she's not afraid to be who she is. And that's something that I really admire in her. And she and Lola could not be more opposite.

So opposite. And that's what I was just about to say. She's so, like, sweet and loves Jesus. And then, you know, we got Sammy over here, who's O-F model. I know. It doesn't give a flying F of what's going on. So, yeah, no, it's funny. How did you raise such polar opposite children?

I don't know. That's the thing. Well, and my dad reminded me, my sister and I are very opposite too. But I don't know. They don't even look alike my girls. No, not at all. Not at all. Looks like I was with the milkman or something. But it's crazy because they both look like both of you in different ways. It's really crazy. If you see, like I watched an interview with the three of you guys, you and your girls yesterday. And you can see like the mannerisms, the eyes, the like, facial structure like one of them like you can see Charlie and both of them you can see you and both of them so it's like I don't know it's like a perfect mixture and they're both beautiful oh thank you yeah of course and you're just such an amazing mom you really are like for saying

that raising children in the limelight is not easy I haven't had to do it to the extent that you have but considering everything that you've been through and had to bring those babies along with you is a testament of the woman that you are because they're such good they're good kids, you know, like Sammy's not hurting anybody. She's just on TikTok, talking shit, living her life, you know, and Lola. She's just funny. Sometimes she'll say something. I'm like, you posted that. Yeah, I'm like, all right. What is your relationship like with both of them? I have a good, great relationship with both of them. Right now they're living together. Oh, wow. Yeah. Or staying together. I shouldn't say they're living together. They're staying together.

That's amazing because I did see a little, they had like a little tip online a couple of months ago. And she's like, Oh, yeah, it's normal. I know. They'll, um, exactly. They'll get into it, whatever, and then I'll call me from lunch. And I'm like, I'm so glad the sisters are getting along right now. Yeah, no, we, it's funny because I have a, they're more open with me than I was with my mom when I was their age. And I had a great relationship with my mom.

But I think I was always afraid of being judged. And I was always very, you know, careful. Even when I did interviews and stuff like that, I just was not 100% myself, like a part of me. There was things I held back and stuff because I was just such a people pleaser. And I love that the girls are just, and I don't know if it's because of their generation that they're so exposed to so much online and that sort of thing or if it's because they were raised in Hollywood. And, you know, and that's something, too, they both have said to me. that it's hard to be kids of famous parents.

And I can't even relate to that because I grew up in Illinois. And I didn't have to deal with, you know, from the time there were babies, the paparazzi were at the hospital. And so, you know, to them it's normal, but it has had an effect on them. Not necessarily, you know, negative. It's different from how some of their other friends and how I was raised. But, and I can't imagine, you know, being now for them. to even stuff going on in my life for them to hear about it.

It's weird. Yeah. You know? And with my divorce, with their dad, they were so little. I thought, okay, by the time they're older, they're not going to hear anything. Well, the internet has changed tremendously. Yes. Yeah.

And it's like, they'll bring up shit from 20 years ago and it goes viral. And you're like, wait, what is happening? Yeah. Yeah. You can't hide anything. But I think to circle back to what you said about that they're more open with you, I think that shows that you've created such a safe space with them, that they are, they feel safe enough with you to come to you and tell you everything. So that's amazing also.

Thank you. I try to raise them in that. And my mom did raise me that like my mom was never judgmental. For me, it was more of being a people pleaser. But I've tried to raise the girls to not, we don't judge. We may not agree with people's choices, but to not judge. And I may not agree with certain things. they say or do, but I'm not making, it's hard, like, I just, I'm not saying you can't do that

or don't do that or don't be who you are. I might not agree with certain ways, just like they don't agree with certain ways. Things, believe me, they've told me things that I do. You're like, I did it for you. You know. So when it comes to their relationship with their father, which we'll get into Charlie in a little bit, can we touch base on both of their relationships with Charlie and, like, how do you encourage them to have that relationship? Because to me, and this is me speaking freely, is that he seems like he's kind of hard to get along with. So just from what I've gathered from Sammy's TikToks and stuff like that, too. Well, I think so during our divorce, which was so public, I wanted the girls to have their relationship with him without, you know, any negativity around it.

I wanted them to know their dad as dad, not as Charlie Sheen, because there was many years where I didn't know if he was going to be here. And I didn't want the kids to only know about their father from what they were going to read about him. And so any time he was in a good space where they could spend time with him, I encouraged it. I never spoke badly about him in front of the kids. I never would, anyone that was hired in my house, I, like, the shit stays out the door. You don't, we don't talk negatively about him at all. And to the point where they've discovered things later, like, why don't you tell me this about, you know, and I'm sure there's things that they're saying to their dad, why didn't you

tell me this about mom? So it goes both ways, and I know that. But I really wanted to protect the innocence of the father-daughter relationship as much as I could. and there's no handbook for it too and I didn't know that was such a crazy insane time it got more insane actually after we were divorced like during his marriage to yeah the tiger blood phase and yeah which we'll get into that a little bit too I know Jesus Christ and then you know with his marriage he's like I'm just trying to live oh it's like I would get dragged into all of that but you know I will say even Charlie always knew to that no matter what I was there for him yeah he could call me at two o'clock in the morning and if he needed my help and I would be there I think that's the most amazing gift that you could ever give somebody is them knowing that you will always be there for them. Sometimes it's selfless on your part or our parts are women who do that.

But at the same time, I think undying loyalty is just so special and so priceless. Oh, thank you. It was, I wanted him to be the best version of himself that he could be. And I always supported him. I always kept his secrets. I never extorted him. It made me sad seeing some of the people that were around in his life that were doing things. It was hard to watch, actually.

But even if he would get mad at me about something or whatever, he knew he could count on me. And he knew he could tell me anything. And I wouldn't judge him. I wouldn't. I would be there. And so we went through a really up and down time over the years, too. Yeah, absolutely. So when it comes to the girls, how is their relationship with him now?

Right now, I think it's good. It has its moments because, you know, sometimes it's better than others. Which is normal, I think, for teenage girls and their dads, too. I do think that's normal. And that's how it is for teenage girls and their moms too. You know, and that's how it is for teenage girls and their moms too. You guys, there's going to be sometimes you guys like each other and there's going to be sometimes you don't. Right. I do think that there should come a time. where they should really talk to their dad because so much happened when they were growing up and ask them questions and why and feel that you know because there would be times where he wouldn't show up on Christmas and I would I would have to lie and make up stuff and I protected him I would say I wasn't going to tell them the truth how do you tell this to little girls what's really going on and some people would judge me and like you got to tell them I'm like what I'm like, how do I say that?

You know, they're already so fragile and going through, you know, even though I try to keep as much from them as possible, they're aware. They pick up on energy and also there was a time their brothers lived with us for about a year. So obviously they knew some shit was going on there. And, you know, I did the best I could. It wasn't perfect. And there's probably a lot of things I would have changed and done differently. But, you know, I think that there's... my opinion, I feel there's still like the elephant in the room that them, they're all not

addressing. And I hope one day that they feel comfortable enough and safe enough where they could just be open and say certain things. Charlie's very, we have a great relationship. He lives close to us, actually, and his boys live with him right now. And, you know, I can give him shit and joke around with them. And, you know, he respects me and I respect him too. And I want only the best for him and want him to do well. And he knows if he needs anything, I'm here. And I think it's important for us always to maintain a relationship. We have our daughters. And that would be something that I think along the way that was hard for him. I would say, no matter what's going on with you and I, let's put our shit aside. And they don't need to be dragged into anything. You know,

and oftentimes that wouldn't happen. And it is what it is. But, um, At the end of the day, he knows that I only have their best interest in his, too. Yeah. Is there a part of you that still feels like you might be in love with Charlie? No. And that's the thing. Like, some people I think misunderstood, like, in with, I did his documentary. I didn't see the second part.

I saw the first part. I love him as their dad. Yeah. You know? And it's not even a brother-s sister relationship. It's... Best friends. You guys have been through some shit.

Yeah. I wouldn't say best friends. We're friends. But I mean, do you know what I? I can't talk to him the way it can talk to some other friends of mine. And I love him as they're, I will always have love for him being their dad. But as far as like a romantic love, no. No.

At all. I'm glad we cleared that up because I did watch the documentary. and from the way they shot the documentary, it kind of made it. I don't want to say they made it seem like you still had like feelings for him, but there's so much emotion there with you guys. I think there's a lot of emotion because there was things that he didn't even know. Right.

A lot that he did not know and how I had to like navigate so much shit. Yeah. Oh, let's talk about it. We'll circle back to the wild things thing in a minute. But you and Charlie, so take me back to when you and Charlie first met. You guys met on the filming of good advice. Yeah, we met. when we did that movie together.

And at the time, I was with my ex who he passed away a couple months ago, Patrick Muldoon. He was a friend of mine of 37 years. And we were on and off for like five years. And at the time we were still together when I met Charlie. And then Charlie was going off to do Spin City. And then a year later, I, um... You guys know I'm in the middle of moving. And if you've ever moved, you know it's the perfect.

time to hit reset. Instead of bringing the same old vibe into a new space, I've been looking for pieces that actually make it feel like home. I've probably spent way too much time building wish lists and saving favorites, and Wayfair has honestly become my go-to while pulling everything together. One thing I really like is Wayfair verified, because it gives me a little extra confidence that I'm looking at products that have been vetted for, quality, functionality, and even ease of assembly. I also always check the customer reviews and real customer photos because I'm I want to see how something actually looks in someone's home before I click by. Whether you're moving, refreshing a room, or just looking for that one piece to pull everything together,

Wayfair has options for just about every style and budget. And if you're planning a bigger home project, Wayfair rewards is definitely something worth checking out. Members get 5% back every day, which is always a nice bonus when you're shopping for your home. Join Wayfair rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Wayfair, every style, every home.

Patrick and I had just broken up, and then I did like an arc of four episodes on Spin City. And it was during Spin City that we started to date. And then there was, it was like over a period of, I think, two months that I was doing the show because sitcom is a couple weeks on and week off, whatever. And we thought we're not going to tell me one, but it was quite obvious that we were dating. But like, what a hot couple, dude. Young Charlie Sheen and then you, I mean, come on, dude.

Young Charlie was hot. He's very handsome. Yeah. Yeah, no, he's still very handsome. Is he? Yeah. And he, you know, and he's very shy. And when I met him, people think that, oh, she reformed the bad boy.

That's not the case. He was, I don't know the person that, well, I got to know after, you know, during the Tiger Blood days. But at the time, I didn't know the person, the person I met was, had been sober for four and a half years, went to AA, was very focused and just a very calm, nurturing person. And that's who I fell in love with. Do you think that's the real, Charlie? I don't know. Because I went back and forth with that, too, like on one hand, I do know that, you know, whatever went sideways with our marriage, the one thing I don't doubt is I don't doubt that he. didn't love me. I really believe that he loved me, you know. But I feel I was also very ignorant and uneducated in addiction. And many people would ask me when I got together with him, aren't you afraid he's going to relapse? And I naively said no. And I think part of it, I didn't

know that person. You didn't know. Especially because your dad dealt with addiction. So he sheltered with his brother. Yeah. With his brother. Yeah. Your dad dealt with the addiction with his brother. so he sheltered you from it so much. And then you marry an addict, which is, you know, that just goes to show that generational trauma and curses are always at play. Yeah. And even being growing up in young adult in Hollywood, I, and I know people are not going to believe this, but I had never seen cocaine because I, people that I was close with knew I didn't

do drugs. It actually scared me. I was not, I didn't see it until during his tiger blood days. That was the first time I actually saw a Coke in person. Wow. Tell me about this story. Well, there's many with that. She's like, there's not just one. No, there's several. Yeah, no, I was so naive.

And then when things went sideways, they went sideways. But during his Tiger Fund days, I would, you know, his security would often call me to help him because they would get fired if they knocked on his bedroom door. He was just so bad. It was just really bad. He was like in the deepest, like, broad bottom of addiction. Yeah. And it was actually. ashamed the people around him because he was on such a hit show made a boatload of money and they

didn't want you know they almost in a weird way enabled it I feel like any man that has a certain amount of money for some reason everybody around them starts becoming a yes man oh yeah and nobody tells them no the ego goes way out just crazy and then they're literally spiraling hitting rock bottom. It's like a tail as old as time. Yeah, because if they did say no, he'd fire them. Right. So if you wanted to work for him, you had to do what he wanted. I don't think he'd care that I'm sharing that. But, you know, it was hard for me to watch that everyone turning their head to how bad he was and almost propping him up to do his show at that point. I feel like during your guys' divorce back in that time, the tabloys really villainized you.

How are you feeling during this? Like you're literally, you're six months pregnant, right? You file for divorce. What was that factor of like everybody's always like, oh, well, what made you leave? And it's like, what was your decision to just start your life over is how I would like to work that? I've never publicly said. There was an incident where I had no choice I felt to, I had to get out. And that's when I filed.

And then we kind of reconciled a little bit right after that. And I knew it wasn't going to work, but I felt, you know, I came from, my mom and dad were married until death do us part until my mom passed away. And so that was my role model. And I didn't want to be divorced. So I wanted to know, too, that if my girls ever talked to me about it, that I could honestly tell them I did everything I could to try to keep the marriage together, even though I it wasn't going to work. And so we reconciled shortly. And then after that, you know, it's a whole

it was a different time to, and I was telling the girls this. There wasn't on Instagram where instantly there would be stories out there. It was a weekly tabloid. So, and it would run all week. And then there would be another thing. And there was a time, I think I was on the cover of all these tabloids for two and a half years in a total. I'm going through it. I'm going through it right now with my divorce. Everything we do is a freaking headline. And it's just like it's, I couldn't even imagine going. But So it was an awful time for me because I had never gotten bad press before. Right. And I felt that I'm just trying to protect my girls.

And my, the hard thing with all that, too, is that it affected my career. Right. That's what I was going to say, like, what's the hardest thing? Is it like surviving that situation or just the people not believing you that are around you? The people that were closest to me knew the truth. Right. And but then there were people that, there were people that worked for me that were starting to leave the tabloys. And I was so shocked. And I said, and then the truth came out. Yeah. Yeah.

Even though it took a while. But how did you sit like, how did you sit so idle and just take it on the chin like that? Because that is that you are beauty, you are grace. Because that's like, I have the hardest time because I have the podcast. So anytime something comes up, I'm like, hey guys. You know, like, and but you didn't do that. You sat just so. It was hard. Well, first of all, I didn't know it would go on as long as it did. And I think in hindsight, if someone said, you're going to have to deal with this for a few years, I think I would have said, well, fuck that. I'm going to say something. It was very, very difficult because also he was on a network television show owned by a studio.

And he was, like, loved by everybody. You know, men wanted to be him and women wanted to be with him. And I was just. But a turn on the woman is so crazy, too. I know, but it happens. And they just think, oh, she's the gold digging bitch that's trying to take them down. And I just, I really just wanted to protect the girls. And later he thanked me. You know, he knew, I didn't know it would be so public. I was surprised by that. And I really thought, well, this is my personal life. Why can't we separate it? But I lost jobs. I couldn't work. That was so hard for me. And at one point, I really had to. form a bubble around myself because I thought and I have a really good family we're really close and if it weren't for them who knows what would have happened or my close you know core um friends who are my family too I could have gone one way or the other like it was to where I was like I can't go into a

depression and feeling like everyone hates me and this it was awful awful and you know I just had to block everything out and I told everyone I don't I can't read anything I can't hear about it no at the end of the day what matters is my daughters and my family and my core group and you know when at the end of the end of the day what's there for you is them and do I really have I don't I felt like the truth will eventually come out I didn't want to be the one to say stuff I only said stuff mostly in court documents sometimes as years went on and interviews I I would briefly say certain things, but I always tried to be respectful. Because any time, if I did say anything, it would backfire anyway.

Right. They twist your words. They twisted it. But then it was interesting then when stuff went down, then it flipped. And then even the studio, when things happened with him, they would pull my documents from court and use that as their defense, which I get. But it was hard to have everyone's shit on me. And it's where I couldn't get a job.

It was really tough. Do you still hold anger for that? You look back at it compassionately now. I don't like. You mean towards Charlie or towards everyone? The whole situation. I mean, it's like PTSD, you know? Yeah, I didn't have anger at it.

I had hurt that I was so misunderstood, you know, and that how could that be portrayed that way with, you know, I was just trying to protect my daughters. I wasn't, you know, trying to tear anyone, him down. You know, I wanted him to be the best he could. but I also wasn't going to put my kids in a certain situation that I didn't feel was safe. Your mama bear. Yeah. And so that was just, that was a very difficult time. And then I lost my mom during that time, which was really awful.

And I just felt like I couldn't let my life crumble. I had two babies. You know, Sammy and Lola were a year apart. They're 15 months apart. They're Irish twins. Yes. So you're going through all of this. You're in the, you guys are.

having the most brutal divorce publicly. And in the midst of his whole tiger blood era, you take in his two twins from his other marriage to Brooke, is her name. And I remember watching that as it was happening. And I even thought to myself, like, this woman is a saint. Like, you are literally getting drug through the freaking media and just left and right.

You can't do anything right. And in the midst of it all, you go and you save these babies and you have them live with you, you said earlier for about a year. It's about a year they were. What put that, what, what's going through your mind as you're taking these babies in and in this situation? They, what a lot of people don't know is before that happened, I was watching them quite often. And Brooke, whenever she, she would call me and ask me, can you take the boys? And I would take them.

And sometimes it would be like for a few weeks. And then they would go back to her. And so their preschool got to know me. They got to know my dad. You know, we got them to school. And then she would take them back and it would just be pretty, I'd be accused of all kinds of stuff. And I, and then every time I'd be like, next time she calls, I can't do this. It's too much drama.

But at the same time, I wanted to be there for the boys. And it's my daughter's brothers. And then when the state got involved that they would ask, like the people in the boys' lives, who would be the best person to take them. And they had said me. And so then the state asked, you know, but there's a whole thing with that too, which is very difficult, which I didn't know. It's a difficult process to go through and to be part of, actually. So, you know, I had them for almost a year.

And then they went, I believe, to Brooke's brother after me. And then I didn't see them for quite a few years, which was really hard. So but do you still have a relationship with them? Yeah, good I do. Yeah, we reconnected a few years ago and I'm so glad and they remember they were little. But I, you know, and a lot of people asked me about that too and it's they're they're my daughter's brothers too. So whatever's going on with all of us adults, it's it is what it is. And, you know, that I would, I could imagine my brothers or sisters not, you know, being in the state system and having. to go live with foster parents that no one even knows. Right. So I wanted to be there and to help them, even though it was very difficult being part of that whole system. But I wanted to do what I could for them.

It's amazing what you did. What's your relationship with Brooke these days? I haven't seen her in a long time. Unfortunately, she's been dealing with her addiction. And it's sad. It's sad and it's tough. You know, I know that we'll talk again. Do you have an open door policy?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like when you're better come to me. Or call me, you know, whenever. Even when she's not better, she can call. I'll still talk to her and stuff. Where do you think your compassion comes from? Because you have so much compassion for people and so much empathy, even when it's not being reciprocated.

I think it's how I was raised by my parents. My mom, you know, Charlie would be like, were you raised in a fucking circus? Like, what's your family? All of these people. I grew up, you know, my grandma owned a bar in Wisconsin, and there would be these, you know, customers that, you know, don't, they have one leg or whatever. And my grandpa had a hook for a hand. And, you know, and when I was explaining our relatives and he asked me that, I'm like, I'm like, like, well, shit. I didn't even look at everyone that way. But I think I just grew up with,

you know, a lot of people in our, in the family that had certain things going on. And my mom would always just, we just didn't judge and we just love people and embrace them. And I didn't grow up with money. And so I, anytime as I started making money too and see people that are less fortune or need help with something I want to be there and help. I think it obviously, I think obviously my mom and dad. Yeah, absolutely. So let's. Let's go back to the wild things because we cannot have a podcast without talking about wild things. Let me get to it in my notes. Because do you feel like wild things was kind of like your breakout that like kind of made you a household name? And I know it was because of the kiss, but I mean,

I just think the whole movie and that whole era was, you know, freaking iconic. So take me on this journey with wild things. So I had just shot Starship Troopers and auditioned for Wild Things completely. Oh, and by the way, in Starship Troopers, Paul Verhoeven, before we started shooting, we had a big, we got to do pre-production, which doesn't happen on a lot of movies, but this one it did where we had a couple months to prep and everything. He called me in his office, and he said, so I wrote a scene, and he showed it to me, and you're going to be topless in it and this and that. And I was scared to death. Like, I worked so hard to get this movie. Mind you, I auditioned for showgirls. Right.

And I said to him. Yeah, you would have been naked the whole time. Yeah. And so I said to Paul, I said, Paul. I said, Paul, I don't, I can't do that scene. It's not, he's like, well, you were going to be naked for me. And showgirls, I go, yeah, but that's a completely different part. It's a different.

This is just, yeah, I said, this makes no sense for the scene. If I was in the shower scene with everyone else, okay, yeah, you're naked in a shower. But this is just so you could see my tits. And I said, I just, and I left, I drove away crying, called my age. And I said, I think I just got fucking fired. And then he was like, what do you mean? I told him. I was so scared I was going to get fired. So Cut 2. I auditioned for Wild Things. And John McNaughton, the director of Wild Things, spoke to Paul and asked how I was to work with and saw some dailies because Starship hadn't been out yet.

And then I just, I read with Nev and I got the part. And I was so nervous to do, not only is, it's not just topless. Yeah, you're making out. Yeah. And back then I had a threesome with a teacher. It was like so inappropriate the whole thing. I feel like the movie was brilliant though. And people... I liked the script. Literally. I feel like it was a brilliant movie.

And that just because of that shock value moment, it just literally like just took over the whole movie. Yeah. And like so I think, did you feel like it got lost in translation because of that scene? Not really. Because I think a lot of people thought from the trailer, oh, we get to see two girls naked with each other, kissing and then, you know, three some with the champagne.

There were certain things that ended up in the trailer. But I think then once people saw the movie, they saw, oh, there's a story here. There's some plot twists at the end. And at the time, you know, at the time, you know, Nev was off of Scream and Party of Five. And Matt Dillon was something about Mary. And, you know, I was the unknown in the movie. And I was terrified to shoot that movie. Very scared.

Can you take us to the day of filming that scene? Yeah. Well, the first scene we did. I believe it was Neb and I we did that one first The pool scene? The pool scene Was the first scene?

No, not the first scene, sorry. The first naked scene. Oh, okay, gotcha, I gotcha. I was like, damn, they threw you to the wolves. Yeah, no. We shot for three months down in South Beach and it was great to film there and be on location.

I was scared again. I was like the nobody and all these big actors that I was working with And I was so intimidated. We waited to shoot those scenes because the director, he wanted us to be comfortable. And I'm so glad that he didn't do it right first week up. Like as you guys worked together and got to know each other more and stuff like that. Yeah.

He wanted us to be a little bit more comfortable. I think, yeah. And so it was, I felt comfortable with Nev. And we just talked to each other. It was actually easier to shoot with her that way than. with a guy, because like with a girl, you can say, we can share our insecurities or parts of our body or whatever. I felt more comfortable saying, do you mind like blocking this? But I would feel insecure to say that I don't necessarily want to. To a man. Yeah. Point that out. Especially,

I was so young and, you know, it was one of my first big jobs too. So I wasn't going to necessarily. What is Denise Richards insecure about in this moment? Well, it's, no, I mean, I was in every, I mean, everything. I was so naive, so young, and not intimidated by them because they were just the big dogs. Yeah. And Matt Dillon was fine back in the head. Yeah, he very. That was his era. Yeah. So and also it was in the content of the movie. And back then, it was very risque for the time. And I think because they actually thought I was younger than I was. They kept asking. And, you know, you didn't have to hand over the way you do all your. And I. And I, I'm like, no, I'm really, I think I was 25, 25 or 26, but I was like a young 25, 26 year old. You still have a young essence to you, like sitting across from you now.

You do your young, you appear to be younger than you are. So that's just a beautiful. Well, that's my facelift. It's a beautiful blessing that you got in this life sister. But I was also just naive and, you know, I didn't. Anyway, there was a lot of shit that happened on that. What is your favorite scene that is in wild things that nobody ever asks you about because of the scene, obviously, that everybody wants to know about? Is there like another scene that you love?

Well, I'll tell you the people that I always remember, like, off camera when I'm working. Like when even people ask me, what's your favorite movie and stuff like that? I always think of the moments that all of us actors off camera or time in my life. I really enjoyed working with Kevin Bacon and Teresa Russell, who played my mom. She was awesome and she was so good at giving me advice. And then, you know, Bill Murray was down the hall. I freaking love Bill Murray. And he would run, I would see him going to the gym and he'd run with his cup of coffee,

like a ceramic cup. It wasn't like to go a cup and going on the treadmill. I just thought he was so funny. He was great with me, by the way. It's not him that was inappropriate. Yeah. But it was, I really, it was great to work with Kevin and Teresa in particular. They were very protective of me, I felt, and watched over me and gave me, you know,

really good advice. Kevin's an OG. He was just in something new that we were looking through movies the other night. And I was like, Kevin Bacon's still acting? Like, that's crazy. I love it. He had his wife and his kids there. And he's a family man.

and just very professional and very, he's a class act. He seems like it. And never, never any weird shit has ever came out about him. Like, he's just like a stand-up dude. No, he's a good person. So that I really enjoyed working with them. And then, but when Wild Things came out, it was Starship Troopers came out. And then like, and we went on a huge press tour with all of that.

And then four months later, Wild Things. So I was like, yeah. He was the first to call me. And he was, he was very complimentary. He's like, so you got naked for, you wouldn't get naked for me. but you got naked for this movie. And I'm like, well, Paul, it's a threesome scene. Yeah.

You know, it does warrant, I guess, some clothing to come up. He was very sweet. You're like, look where it got me. And very, he was very, he was great, though. Yeah. But that was a very crazy time when all that hit at once. That's what I was about to say. Like, you hit like the jackpot and it just, all of a sudden,

that's when you're just shot off into stardom. Yeah. It's overwhelming, too. When I look back, I think, wow. that was a lot and I didn't even realize it. But it's like when it's like you're in fucking fight or flight, you're like in survival mode when you're going through stuff like that and like your trajectory is just going up and up and up.

It's almost like it's so hard to live in the moment. Do you feel like you didn't get to live in the moment as much as you should have? No, I, what was weird for me was to see if I did a lot of press and different magazine shoots and stuff and more people were saying I was a sex symbol. Like I didn't see that girl. I saw the girl like in sweats and like, you know, hang. out with my friends. And so that's what was surreal for me when I look back now at all of that. And then after that, I did Drop Dead Gorgeous. And then Bond was like worldwide. I had no

idea how the magnitude of that movie. And so, you know, when they say like, oh, fame happens overnight. It's like you work for 10 years. And it takes that one job, though, that changes. You go from no one knowing you to people knowing who you are. And that part is, I think, what's overwhelming as a young actress, an actor when that hits. Did it ever get, I don't know if the word annoying is probably the perfect word to use here, but did it ever put a bad taste in your mouth that everybody was so focused on your looks? And like a lot of pressure, too. What was hard was when I wanted to try and play other roles of a girl with a little bit more

substance. And it's like, you know, I was looked at a certain way and I thought, well, I have issues. I have shit that I'm insecure about. I've had crap that's happened in life that, you know, just because someone looks a certain way doesn't mean that they don't have shit going on, you know. So that's when it would get hard for me is when I would want to play this role and they, they don't see you that way. I'm like, why? I and even though they, you know, my agent knew me very well. And that, you know, that was always a, you know, a battle when I was trying to play other roles that were more girl next door or, you know, something a little different. I wasn't seen that way at all. Especially back then, like the 90s and the 2000s was like the bombshell era.

So they were just pushing that narrative of like, you know, hot, beautiful women, which can we bring it back? Because I kind of miss that era, you know? Like, I understand that we all, we all have brains and stuff like that too. But I just feel like it was such an iconic time where there were so many beautiful women and like talented women. And I don't know. It was just a really cool era. I agree with you. And going back to what you said, didn't annoy me.

I didn't realize that the level of being seen that way, like I didn't know until now I do, looking back. Do you know what I mean? I didn't know that people knew who I was. I never thought of myself that way. And having people, now I'm like, oh, I didn't. look so bad. I wish I embraced that more. Do you know what I mean? Like it was, to me, that was a character. And but I also, it's not, you know, I certainly didn't help it by

doing shoots where, I mean, I didn't exactly look like girl fucking next door in these shoots either. You're a hot though. So I didn't, you know, but I think I was, I shied away from it too. I don't think I embraced my sexuality at that age. And during that time, I was very careful with interviews. and being a people pleaser. I don't want to, you know, that was the other thing. When I did Bond, when we did this big press tour, we had to do media training. And that actually made it worse, I felt like, I felt like, oh, God, I have to be rehearsed so much.

Yeah, and I felt like I couldn't be myself. You know what the silver lining with my divorce with Charlie and having so much bad shit said about me? That is what freed me to be myself because I was like, well, crap. If I'm being careful and people are saying this, then I'm just going to be myself. And who cares if someone doesn't like me or they say something? So that was the one good thing that came out of all that bad press was I got to be my, me and not just being careful what I say in interviews, you know.

I also feel like that's growth because as women, I feel like when we're in our 20s and even 30s, we're like so people pleasers. We're like so unsure of ourselves. We care about what everybody thinks. And then you hit your 40s and your late 40s and your 50s and you're just kind of like, I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks. about me. Like, I'm just going to be me. And I think that that is the beauty of aging, especially in this industry, is because we develop so much wisdom and people get to see that,

you know, more so with you, but they get to see the growth through all the years. I agree. I think as we get older, we care less about that. And that's what I like about my daughter, Samia. She has the confidence to just be herself. And I wish I had that back then, too, you know. Absolutely. So let's talk about Eloise a little bit. You take me on this journey with her and adopting her, bringing her into your life. How did motherhood change with you and the girls, but then also raising Eloise? So I've always wanted to adopt.

And after my divorce with Charlie, I didn't want to, I didn't want to not have another. I knew, I felt like there was another soul and that I wasn't done. and I wanted to start the adoption process on my own. And I thought, well, if another man comes into my life, I don't know how long this is going to take, then it is what it is. And otherwise I'll do this by myself. And she was, there were quite a few different situations

that it was a closed adoption. I wanted to do a closed private. And she was number 13. Lucky number 13. Yeah. And when she was born, She's special needs and we I did not know you know and it wouldn't have changed anything. I still would have become her mom.

But it was really hard to diagnose her. But when I first adopted her, the girls, Sammy and Lola were six and seven years old when she was born. And right away, they felt like I had her. And they still, they say it. And they just such great big sisters. They would feed her. They loved from day one. And it felt like she was their sister.

She is their sister. And but as Eloise wasn't meeting certain milestones, um, because I didn't give birth to her, I, you know, we first thought, okay, she's just a late developer. Um, if I had given birth, we would, okay, this isn't typically genetically with my other girls. Um, but then it was really tough trying to figure out what was going on and all these tests. and went to Children's Hospital and finally did like a genetics test on her. It was so expensive this test. And with insurance, it was $15,000. Wow. Yeah. And then then they had to test her a

couple times after they narrowed down the genes that they were testing. So she was diagnosed with a chromosome disorder where she's got a deletion of chromosome 8 and the genes that were, They gave me this whole printout of all these genes that she doesn't have in chromosome 8. And when the specialist told me and gave this to me, I said, well, can I talk to maybe some other parents? Because she said they didn't have a lot of information, much information at all. She's like, well, she's the only one. I thought, wow, at Children's Hospital, she's the only one. So, no, she's the only one in the U.S. database of this particular.

there were other children that had a chromosome disorder in eight but not the specific genes that she had the deletion. So I was like, oh, well, fuck. What do I do? Like, you know, I'm like, she's one of one. Yeah. And so it's been challenging, but such. What comes with that? Just part of my, I don't know. Oh, yeah, no. She didn't crawl until she was a year and a half. Okay. My other daughters were around six, seven months old when they started crawling. And then she didn't start walking until two and a half years old. She was almost five when she was completely out of diapers.

And it was terrible. Like in the beginning before I was public about what was going on with her, people would make comments. Oh, she's still carrying her daughter in the parking lot at the grocery store. And I'm like, if I put her down, she will bolt. It was just she just didn't know that there's a car right. there. And so there's a lot of development delays with her muscle tone with that stuff. And then also she's primarily nonverbal. She can only say like a handful of words. She can't do a sentence.

And when she says words, except for no, she says that clear. She can say ma, not mom. And the other words she says is like a whisper. And so she has had speech therapy. It doesn't, you know, as a matter of fact, it kind of shut her down. I have a private teacher with her that works with her. And it's kind of like she's, at times it feels that she's 15 now. And she still, I still have to help her with getting dressed, like putting her shoes on two different feet, putting her clothes on backwards, so I still have to help her. And she'll need care the rest of her life. Like I, she's never, she wants to, you know, she points at blue cars, blue is her favorite color. And it's sad because she's never going to be able to drive, you know, because one minute she seems like she's her age and then

and then she's like a toddler, you know, but she's so aware and she's very caring and compassionate. She loves animals. For instance, we were, Sammy went out of town and I to feed her cats. And I told Eloise, now you've got to remind Mommy to feed her because I wanted, she likes having a job. And so she has a cell phone and I FaceTime her. I can't call her without. I have to see her face.

So she gives me a thumbs up, thumbs down. I understand her. Yeah. We tried sign language. She has her own. Yeah. We tried the ASL. It did not work for us.

And, but, you know, she had in her phone an emoji. cat next to Sammy's name. She pointed, I'm like, oh, good, we have to go feed her cat. So she understands so much. And I also feel she sees spirits because I'll see her mouthing to someone or dancing. Patrick Muldoo, my friend that passed, she had such a deep connection with him. And she even felt, oh, God, I'm going to start crying, that, you know, he came to her and she could see him and stuff.

So, you know, she has this gift, I feel that's. on another level, but she, you know, she's never going to be a normal kid. And I worry, like, as she gets older, you know, and when I'm gone. Yeah. You know, so I wish that, but we don't know what she'll, you know, this is kind of where she's at, and it doesn't improve, you know. What do you think the biggest lesson is that she's taught you in this life? the simple things. Like the simplest things make her so happy. You know, when the girls fight about

stuff, she goes like this, like they're crazy. And she... I love how aware she is of things. Almost, she's so aware, like on another level, not to sound woo-wee, but you know what I mean? Like, I feel that I 100% believe that. Yeah. And I've asked her and she will, if she doesn't know something or do something, she's fine saying no. And I asked her, I'm like, do you see spirits or can, feel spirits and she has nodded that she does. But, you know, with the girls and I tell them, like, look at Eloise is so happy just to, like her Barbies, the one dog always choose them up and the arm will be off and she loves her. My older girls would be like, I want a new Barbie, you know, that kind of thing. And she embraces the disabilities of these dolls from the dog.

She's like they're different like me. Yeah. And she's just simple and just takes in all her surroundings. And that's like, stop and smell the roses is what she's taught me. And I think the older girls, too. Again, it's a testament of who you are. You know, you're taking in these babies. You adopted a special needs daughter. Like, you just have so much love that you pour into people. And I just hope that one day you find your person that will be pouring love into you.

Or, you know what, at this point, I'm not even going to say that to people anymore because I'm going through it too. I feel like we're here to pour love into ourselves. I agree. Yeah. That I will do. I won't get married again. No, never. Never.

Never, ever, ever, which we're about to start talking about that in a second. But let's talk about your stint on housewives. How was that? Because I remember following it a little bit, but then it got a little crazy. And I just almost felt so bad for you. I was like, I can't watch this. Yeah, no, it was... Was you and Brandy, right?

Brandy... Yeah, I think it... So in the beginning, when I did it, I was, again, naive to it because I just wanted to be myself on the show. Because a lot of people know me as an actress, they've seen me do interviews. And I feel, I'm like, I'm not going to create a character. I want to be me. Yeah.

I feel that people would see through that. And they do. And the cameras pick up the fakeness. Do you feel like the housewives are real, like the ones that are on there? Or do you feel like some of them? I feel that for the most part, I feel though some are different on camera and off camera. And so that's confusing. Actually, when I met with the producers, I wore guns and roses T-shirt and jeans. I did my own hair makeup. And I told them, I said, they said I was the first, probably the only still, gone in looking like that. You know, I said, you guys can see on the red carpet, you can pull up a picture of me all glanced. Yeah. This is how I really dress and real life, unless I, you know, have somewhere that I have to get dressed up for. And I asked them, I said, if you want me to do that, I can. I can do that because I still am acting.

I'm still going to events. And so that part I felt was still authentic and truthful, that part of me. But at home, if you want this. And they wanted me, they're like, no, stay who you are. Yeah. So I think at first, the housewives were shocked by that. Which is crazy. That that's what shocked them.

Well, I'm also the stupid idiot because when we went to the Bahamas, which was a weekend of me filming, literally, I packed like, I think the night before morning of, And I was just, meanwhile, I didn't know they were all like planning their outfits for probably two fucking months. And I was like, okay, we're going to the Bahamas. And I didn't organize all my damn outfits. I just wore what I would go if I was with a bunch of girlfriends. But that makes you real. I love that about you.

I know what I thought was such a dumb fuck. I swear to God. Oh, man, I was just, anyway, I was myself. And then so then the second season, I was so hurt. by Lisa Rinnah because I knew her for 20 years. And I was shocked. And I didn't even know where it was coming from. And I didn't even watch a few of the episodes

because it was so out of nowhere. And I had done a movie with Patrick Muldoon again. He's like a friend of forever. Like we were more than even brother and sister. It's like we had such, his family's my family. And he's just, I've known him, we've known each other before anyone. else knew who we were. And I was 18 years old when I met him. And so we were doing a movie together

and she heard that he was in it. And she had a huge crush on him. And she's like, if I, if I can interview you for my podcast, can I interview him? I've had such a crush on him. And I said, yeah, I'm sure he'll do it. And I didn't know her well at all. I had met her through an agent briefly. And then I filmed one thing with her. And then that was it. And then that was it. And so we did the podcast and I did my interview with her and then she did with Pat, but I'm like, you gotta like tone it down. And so Brandy was doing a podcast. Okay, gotcha.

And so then I did an interview and then she interviewed Pat and I wasn't there for the interview. And then it was like a year and a half later, this was brought up on the show. And but I remember Teddy saying something to me, oh, she said, you guys had sex. I thought she was talking about me and Pat because she would say to me, like, I know you're sleeping with him. I'm like, I'm not sleeping with him. We've been broken up for years. I said he's my best friend. And Aaron's got to be like pissed off and whatever. And I said, he's not. Like, he knows my relationship, but actually it was a deal breaker. If you don't embrace him and forget it. Yeah. So that, so I thought she was talking about him at first when they, and then when I was like, oh my God, for fuck's sake, really?

I feel like Brandy, and I'm going to be very choosy with my words here, I feel like Brandy leans into the villain character a lot and sometimes it might become her reality and that's why she drives at home so hard. I felt actually bad for her because no one was talking to her. And I'm like, the one person that was nice to, you fucking do that too. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, no, it was really weird. and out of nowhere.

And when I say the Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, fucking Bravo, it had nothing to do with that. It was something else where they were also for every time I'd go to dinner, they would bring up some bullshit about threesomes or this or that. And I'm like, they thought I was mad at them. And I'm like, I'm not mad. Like, can we move on from it? It was like, I don't know why they were wanting to make such an issue.

I just made one comment at a dinner we had saying, I just didn't want them to talk about that with the kids right there. Yes, do I do stuff? And then later it's on film. I'm like, yeah, I hope my kids don't see it. But if they do, they do. But while they're sitting right there, I don't want to talk about stuff, you know? But, yeah, no, it was a really weird thing.

Could have been jealousy, too, you know, because you were the new girl. And it's like, I almost feel like it's almost like a hazing that they put people through. I just thought, I thought, you know, this probably isn't going to land well. Right. You know? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And then I'm like, also, I'm open about a lot of shit. Yeah. It would have been easier to say, yeah, and. Yeah. You know, like, should I have lied and said certain things or whatever? But it was just such a weird thing. I was, but I was more so, more than anything, I was so hurt by Lisa Renner. That was.

What happened with Lisa? Well, she's the one that was, I believe, she just was pushing that and this, and she knows me. And so you guys were like homies like yeah like off camera. Mm-hmm okay. Yeah, I knew it for 20 years. Wow. So do you guys still talk? No.

No. So that ruined you guys' friendship. Oh, I hate that. Yeah. It was, it was, you know, we've talked a couple times since, but I mean, I've, if she reached out and apologized and like genuinely meant it, would you guys rekind? Okay. So 20 year friendship was a lot.

Yeah. Well, I think you find out about people. I always say you find out about people when you work with them, live with them or travel with them. I had never worked with her until this show. So I found out I don't really want to be friends with that person so much. But that's okay. She doesn't want to be friends with me either, so that's fine.

But it is what it is. And I don't, in hindsight, I probably should have stayed on this show. Also, though, I think things are going really bad with my marriage, too. Right. And I didn't. Yeah. And so I was also concerned about certain things. And COVID happens.

It was like a combination of stuff. In hindsight, I probably should have stayed on. But I was like, everyone hated me and it didn't seem, I didn't want it to not feel genuine either. Like we're supposed to be friends on this show. And I was friends with someone. Now I'm not. And then Garsell, thank God, I was friends with her.

But it was also a weird time, too, of what's going on with COVID. Yeah. And not knowing if we're filming. And then everyone hated me. then things weren't so great with the person I was with. So it was a combination of things. Okay. So moving on from the housewife stuff, I did hear you say in the middle of that that you were going through some stuff behind the scenes with the person that you were married to. Yeah. We won't name his name. We're not going to say no names today. Just to pick people,

no, with Aaron, who the person I'm divorcing, yes. There was some stuff that I was dealing with, but I didn't know I was really dealing with it back then if that makes sense. I just knew stuff wasn't right. When you say that, can we have some examples of like what was going on? Yeah. Well, I feel, I mean, obviously I was in an abusive marriage. It didn't start out that way, though. Physically? Physically.

And emotionally, financially, all of it. He was a completely different person than the person I married. And do you feel like you were conned? Absolutely. Definitely. Yeah, that's the hardest part of it is that, you know, we were together just over eight years, married a little over six. And it's, I never thought I would have been in this situation ever. And now I get it.

Like when, you know, it's easy to say, why wouldn't someone leave or you should. have known, you should have seen these things. And a lot of people asked me that. And it's, I didn't. I wouldn't have married the person, you know. So I, I've learned so much of who he is during the separation. We split a year ago, Fourth of July weekend. We're still not divorced. What was the, okay, so let's bring it back to the beginning. So where did you guys meet and how did, how did he come into your life so that people who don't know the whole story can kind of get a picture and then we can paint the entire situation that's happening for everybody? Erin had a business of what I would call kind of like a wellness healing place.

It was a lot of stuff that people are just now, I think, seeing on, you know, Instagram and stuff like that, like the biohacking and a lot of frequency. toxic men that the ones that push the healing and wellness yeah Jesus it seems to be a trend he so I a friend a mutual friend wanted to set me up with him and I had met him in passing and I'm like he's not my type and no I'm not really interested and then I started after my mom passed away she had renal cell carcinoma which is kidney cancer and seeing what she went through I really wanted to learn more about like preventative and health and wellness and all of that. And so I wanted to, so I went to Aaron. He had a like a place where I became a client and I was the perfect

like woman pray for him because, you know, I had had my divorce with Charlie. I'm a single mom. I have My youngest daughter, I just found out her diagnosis, and I felt like, oh, I've been single for quite a few years, and I was ready to, like, you know, meet someone. He was the last person I ever thought, and it's so true, like when they say, oh, when you least expect it. I've never had a situation like this either where I was, became friendly and then turned into a relationship. It was always that instant chemistry and all of that. And so I got to know him over four months while I was a client. And we knew some mutual people. And then, you know, started to date.

And he just seemed like a really good man that he was very low-key, didn't come from money. Always, this was also probably a big fucking red flag to say, I don't care about your career that way or, you know, how much money. He had very low maintenance and his actions even showed that too. And, you know, he seemed like a manly man like he could help me with stuff. But in a nice, in a relationship way, not where, you know, it's hard to explain. It just seemed like a good, a good man to like a guy's guy, a good man and just seemed very, seemed very nurturing. And, you know, we had, we were together, I would, I think around almost two years before we got married.

And, and no signs of anything that would be a red flag for me. And then I was after we got married, still good. And looking back, like, really trying to see where, I was trying to really see where, when did this really start. And he's. Canadian, and he has a green card because being married to me. And I, I, when I think about it, it's like, that's really, after we got the green card was kind of when things started to shift. Wow. And then, um, how so? Um, verbally abusive. And it was a slow burn. This wasn't overnight. It was like slowly chipping away, putting doubts in my head about certain things. And it was a slow burn. And it was, like,

slowly chipping away, putting doubts in my head about certain things. And then I'll never forget the one time when he first hit me, I was so shocked. I was like, oh, fuck, there's no going back from this. My dad always taught my sister and I. He always said, if a man hits you once, he'll hit you again. And I told him, I said, I don't know, I don't know how to what to do. He hit you on your face? Hit my face. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Slapped me across the face. Wow. Yeah. And it was shocking and startling. And I out of like he got so angry and just hit me. And so he was crying and please forgive me. I don't know what happened. It'll never happen again. And it's the typical thing that you hear from women who come out of relationships like this. And I never thought in a

million years it would be me. And that's the thing that I think is hard. Don't be hard on yourself, though, because it's, those types of relationships are normally like very passionate, and that's what we get addicted to is the, because I was in a severely abusive relationship also. And what women get addicted to and those is the push and pull of the abuse. You see who they were that you fell in love with. And that they're so remorseful. He was so remorseful. And to the where I felt bad for him. Right. You're like, stop apologizing. Yeah. I played it down. After I got through the annesful, he was so remorseful. And to the initial, I don't know what to do. My dad has always, I've always heard, my dad's always said this and I can't,

I cannot be an abusive relationship. I didn't know even the mental part of it at that point. Right. But looking back, it was happening. I just wasn't aware of it at that time. He knew little things to say to me to put doubts in my head to make me feel insecure. I'd be going, everything. Yeah, like choices I was making, things that I was doing. I was also in between like business managers, a lot of, I don't know if you've had this experience and if you haven't, thank God, you haven't. But some of us in entertainment have had situations with business managers who have done certain things and that you're not, you know, not the greatest. And so I was in between some things and I was also working a lot. And he was like, I'll help you. I'll take care of. I'll

help you with your finances. That was the biggest mistake I made. And so I stupidly put him on as a signing on my one account and, oh, that was really bad. But going back, you know, I thought, okay, he's really, he had my best interest. He made me believe he was taking care of me and, you know, wanted to build a life with me. That's what abusers do. Yeah, I really felt like we were building a life together and was so close to Eloise. Sammy, I think she, well, she knew from, she did not like him from day one. Lola, she was sweet and she liked him. She liked him for me. She believed him too, I believe. Until the end. I love that Sammy saw through him though. She saw through him. Yeah. But I'm like, you don't like anyone right now, Sammy. You're 13. That's the one you keep close to you.

No, it's true. The one that doesn't like anybody keep close to you. It is true. And she's the one I had to lie the most to with him with everything. And it was just, you know, it's hard. It was slow, but it was a chip away at me to where I felt like a piece of shit. And then... He's breaking you down. Yeah. Abusers love to break down strong women. Yeah.

No, and I was broken. And then he would slowly... The physical started more and more. Then he moved his family down from Canada and told me they were just staying for a while. And that I said... It was his mom, dad, brother. Then it turned into another brother

and a sister-in-law that neither one of us had married. Five people. This was during COVID. It was 2021. Like towards the end of it, they made up some bullshit excuse. Came down two Great Danes, two pit bulls, two cats, and five people. What? Yeah.

In your house? In my house? By the way, I was leasing with Aaron. I had sold my house in Hidden Hills. And then, thank God I did not buy a house with him. Right. So we were leasing this. We leased it.

And so I didn't own it. We didn't own it. So I'm very respectful of, you know, That was five years ago. The brother with the wife left after four months, and then the others are still here five years later. Wow. It was after they moved down, I feel is when he really shifted. I was seeing a man that I didn't even know. And then it would be like parts of that with the abuse. And then he would back off and apologize. I'm so sorry. I just feel pressure. My family, the this. And he told me all these businesses. deals that he was putting together. And then the borrowing the money started with me and pulling

money out when as soon as I would fly somewhere to work, he would take money out of my accounts that I didn't know. And it was it was and I take responsibility that I wasn't watching that stuff. But at the same time, I loved him and I trusted him and I felt like he had my best interest and that we were building life together. I co-signed stupidly right before we got married, his lease on his place in Malibu where he moved to center and because he wasn't uh he didn't have his green card at that point um and that wasn't smart um he ended up i ended up having to pick up all the rent on that it was just terrible it went from bad to worse but then the physical started so much um and it was when that was it was stuff that I could hide you know like on my arms or

something. And then he gave me a black eye. And that was where I was like, oh, oh, fuck, how am I going to, what am I going to do now? What am I going to tell people? It was awful. It was awful. And it was something, his cousin was there. She worked for him. She was right there and saw it happened. He started to, um, he had these plants, uh, by a woman that gave, uh, she gave to him. And I later learned some things about that woman. So he was having an affair. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I didn't know at the time, but he made up some bullshit thing with saying there was like listening devices in these things. And he got crazy.

Like he would show me, put a device up to it. And it would, I'm like, all right, let's just put them outside. Does he use drugs or was it a peptide he was taking or? No, I think, I mean, I learned that part after. He just was, I think I was seeing the real. person, you know? And he started to fight or argue and stuff. And then a cop showed up at his place. And he went into the kitchen of his place and then his cousin and I had to answer the door. And the cop said someone heard some arguing or screaming or something and played it down. He left.

And then I sat down and Aaron came out and just looked at me, he goes, you're fucking bitch. And he used this part of his hand and gave me a black eye. And at that moment, I was like, oh, my God, I think I thought, is my eye? Okay. I was so scared. Yeah. So, you know, it's when people ask me to like the other times it happened. And then it was just all the time, you know, doing stuff.

But they asked me, how come you never called the police? I'm like, I didn't call the police and they showed up and that's what happened to me. So he had always told me, you know, I would. Well, they control. It's not easy. When you're in an abusive relationship, people are always like, why didn't you leave? It takes a woman. They say seven times of leaving before they can actually really leave their abuser.

It's not easy for a woman, especially if they have money, especially. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what walk of life you're in. If you're in an abusive relationship, you will never know what it's like unless you're in that. and to ask somebody, well, why didn't you leave? I feel like that is just kind of like... I know. Yeah.

I don't... I know. I know. I feel... And this is the opposite. Like, I'm the one that made the money. Right. And I was scared to leave because also he had his family here. And, you know, and I'm afraid of them, too.

I actually moved out of the house that we were leasing and everything. But it was for... Towards the very end, it became where it was my normal. Like as far as if a couple gets into a disagreement, like, okay, do you guys yell or does one walk away or whatever? Our normal became where I would be hit or pushed down on the ground or some threat of something. And that became almost my normal. And I knew it was wrong, but I was so beaten down and that I didn't know how to leave. Yeah.

I really did not know how to leave. You're almost not in your right mind in those situations. It's a chemical. It's survival, you know, because he's such a big guy. I've never laid a hand on him. My God, I would not be here right now if I did. You're tiny. I couldn't even imagine you laying a hand on anyone.

Yeah, he's a big guy and very intimidating. And, you know, he has guns and would threaten me with that too. And so I was fucking scared to leave. and um so he ended up filing though he filed um did he file because you moved out of the house or no he moved in i rented like ended up being three townhouses all together i i first moved out with my daughters and he because i it got so bad his family knew what he was doing to me too and nobody stopped it they didn't stop it that's learned behavior too probably totally completely it is and so i moved in with the girl i moved the girls and i had so much like all this usually would

happened at his office or when we would travel. I thought it got back where I'm like, I can't have you with me, you know? And for someone who accused me of cheating, it was him and which is whatever. But, you know, so then I, so I stayed in a townhouse with the girls. And then I rented another one that I could use as like my office. When I was like trying, like, what are we going to do about this house?

I packed up all my stuff. needed, but I didn't want to just, they were destroying it and whatever. And so I kept cheering. They're leaving next month, next month, next month. Well, they still haven't left. They're still here. And I was having to pay the rent there, plus his office, plus the townhouses, plus everyone's pay. It was just out of control. And so, you know, so I hid that. And so I had my breasts, I had them redone and I had surgery. And then like three weeks later, I had my facelift. After I had the surgery on my breasts, he, uh, that night, he was taking care of me at the four seasons. And I was, I had a seven and a half hour surgery because it was a rupt. It was a whole thing.

And he ended up hitting me while I'm on the toilet. And it got to the point though where he would. And I'm like crying and I'm like, I just got out of surgery. I was like this. It was awful. And he's a disgusting human. When that's when that moment, like I knew for, I was trying to convince myself once his family leaves, he'll be back to. Because I felt like they were, but they had never, he had no intentions of them ever leaving. I thought he did. And but when he did that to me, being that vulnerable, I knew this is, he's going to kill me, you know. And so he hates you and he hates himself.

And when men are like that, there's no, I call it shark eyes when they get like that. It's almost like their eyes go black. They did. And they become like a different human. And that's the scariest thing that you can ever experience as a woman is watching a man have zero emotion or soul behind his eyes and them putting their hands on you. And to do that to you after surgery. After surgery.

Like it's terrible that he was doing it to you anyways, but especially after surgery too. Oh, it's so vulnerable. Yeah. Like that's insane. It was insane. And that's, again, people are like, why didn't you call and do what? I'm sitting there. Like, I can't even pick a phone up. I couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. And then I had my facelift three weeks later. And I told him, it was so bad. I'm like, we've got a, I can't do this anymore. He had found text messages and like a few months prior of me and a guy that I did a show with. And I had never seen this guy again. And they were inappropriate texts that I sent. And I own that. I never saw him, though, in purpose. person and I he even saw the text of me saying I can't cross this line and see you I know obviously things are not good in my marriage and Aaron saw those or the person I'm divorcing and asked me and

he said did I lose you do you want um I and I said I cannot stay married like this this is I can't do it I didn't want to get divorced and go through what I'm going through right now well I mean you also went through one of the most public freaking divorces. So you probably were scared to death what was going to happen when the news hit. Although I did not think this would go down the way it did. But I said, this is what needs to happen for us to stay married. You need to go to anger management. You need to stop all your substance abuse. And you need to get your family out here because I cannot support everyone. This is insane. So when did you find out about the substance abuse? Well, I found out, found out shit after we split.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You would have thought I would have known more. But there was some other things that I had known-ish. But I'm like, whatever you're doing, you need to stop. You know. But then he got worse after that. And that's when, and then I had my surgeries. And then I told him, I said, I think I need to reschedule my facelift. Like I was like, I've never, this is a major thing. I cannot have anything. And he said, no matter what happens with us, I promise you. I'm going to take care of you and work, get you through this. And it was horrendous. Thank God, Dr. Ben had me go to a place because at least I had nurses. And people around you. Yeah, and I stayed there for a week. And he was trying to put on, you know, his whatever.

And I get home. And then it was 10 days later, 4th of July weekend. He was just so volatile. And he even had his dad come over who had never been there, showed pictures of me with this guy. and a text message is that you keep bringing up the same ones like and you're showing your dad and they were threatening me and it was just so awful he's trying to create a narrative he's trying to create for months he was I didn't even know it but yeah but meanwhile he's having an affair yeah with the

plant lady oh and then um that was she was earlier but there was several and then he was it's always it's okay when they do it but when we if you do it it's a whole thing and i and i didn't but you didn't do anything. Yeah, I mean, I should not have text another man. And I, I knew that our marriage was over, just the fact I even did that. Because I've never cheated. I've never, I'm very loyal. And, you know, I couldn't. But I knew it was over when I did that. But I was trying to convince myself, things will change. Well, he was trying to convince me. And they just didn't. It went from bad to worse. But, and that weekend, while I'm 10 days after my facelift, 4th of July weekend, I told his mom, my text, I'm like, you've got to get your husband and your son out of here.

I cannot do this. If not, I'm going to file a restraining order. This is so abusive. I am trying to heal from two surgeries. So eventually they left. And then bad weekend. And then Aaron, the person I'm divorcing, filed that online that we. And it doesn't tell me and it's texted me like on a Monday like nothing and I couldn't even I didn't even want to see him or anything and My daughter Sammy called me and she's like are you okay? Because I stayed the night at her house on a Saturday night because I just was so scared to stay there I was afraid who's gonna do something and so I stayed at her place and even at that I still didn't tell her everything But she's like well that motherfucker filed for divorce I was like what? Oh

Why? Like, the worst thing you could have done while I'm healing from a facelift. Because they just always wanted to listen to me. Yeah. And I talked to him. He called actually and I said, you filed for divorce. Well, yeah, you told my mom you were going to file. I said, I didn't mean Monday. I said, I didn't say I was going to file. I said, we have to get divorced. This is just crazy with your family and the abuse and everything else. I can't do this. And I was trying to beat you to the punch. Yeah. And I said, you don't realize the circus you just created. And now with a facelift, with my head fucking wrapped, I have to go find an attorney and deal with this. And he said, you don't need an attorney.

I'm like, you want over 100 grand a fuck a month. What do you mean? I don't need an attorney. Is that what he filed in the divorce papers? Wow. Mr. Oh, I don't want your money. Yeah.

I said, you could go fuck yourself. And that was the last time I spoke to him. And then he, same thing. please take me back, texting everything. I never talked to him again to this day. You don't need to talk to him. No. He doesn't deserve any.

No, it's actually I'm terrified of him. And then I, and I was so scared to file the restraining order. Shitballs. I was terrified because I just, he's dangerous. And he doesn't have anything to lose, you know. And same with his family. I was so scared. Does he still reach out to you and try to get you?

No, he can't. No, he can't. But it's been hell, I'll tell you that. But the worst part is the betrayal of, for him, like, right away, you know, sell pictures of me to Daily Mail and put all these stories out there, all these lies about me and trying to destroy me. You know, even when I filed the restraining order, I just wanted to protect my safety. I didn't put shit in there about them that just to be me. And that's the thing that was while it was at my most vulnerable to try to ruin me. Right.

Just to after everything I've worked for my whole life to, you know, just be so brutal. And everything that I've discovered just in the last year, like people come out of the woodwork. Oh. His friends, these people telling me, I was like, how could I've been so naive? And, you know, finding out that I was paying the salary of. at least one that I know in particular. And the other one I was earlier, but an employee that he was having an affair with and her severance and all this stuff. It's just.

And he right away moved in with a woman as soon as we separated, had her testify against me. She didn't know me. Didn't see anything about me. And it was just, it was brutal. It's been brutal. I can't, he won't sign divorce papers. He's trying to come after me for spousal. And I get it.

I know that normal. marriages, whoever makes more money, you know, that's, you pay, that is what it is. And you guys didn't sign a pre-up. No, that was, that was mistake number 50 I made. Girl, you're just a lover girl. You're just a girl. It's okay. I was so stupid.

You know, well, it ain't happening again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was a dumb fuck. I didn't do a pre-up. But I do want to say that I am so proud of you for speaking up because if anybody looks at your track record, you have not spoke up ever. So for you to finally speak up and say your truth is amazing and I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

Because like I said, your track record shows that you literally have eaten shit and protected everybody. And now you're finally saying, no, I'm choosing me. I'm going to tell the truth about this man so he can't hurt another woman the way that he hurt me. And also, for yourself, just to even be able to get that off your chest and be able to say, look, this is my truth. Take it or leave it. It just speaks volume.

So I am proud of you. Thank you. I also want to, you know, because this has been going on for a year and I feel it's been hell. Like every turn I discover something new or something else is filed. And, you know, we have no custody to deal with. We don't have a home to sell. He's taking everything of nine. He's not going to let you go.

And he's not going to, he won't let it go. And so, and that's the part that's brutal. But I also, you know, I want to, if I could even help one woman in my situation, If it could happen to me who I'm the one that was the breadwinner. I'm, you know, and it's a slow burn. It was a slow burn and it's terrifying. You know, this happens so much and many women don't make it out alive. And I think if I wasn't in the public, I wouldn't be here right now.

Or if I did call the police on him, I would not be here. I really believe that. And but to be put through hell with this, you know, I had to go through a five-day trial to get, I have a permanent restraining order. So after you file it, then you have a trial and see if you want to extend it. And I got the most you can get. And it's not just because it's not because who I am. I had to go through this trial. And he kept doing interviews and putting lies out there hoping I would break.

And I almost did to pull it because I didn't know I would have to, it would be public where the media could be in there. and I would have to sit there and it was the hardest thing I think I've ever had to do. But I did it. And it was over a few months. It would be like three days. Then I'd have to wait a month and go again again. It was so devastating to also testify against this person who I had thought I was building life with who I loved. And in a second, he showed no remorse, no love at all.

Like to turn on me the way he did publicly and do all that shit about me, it was such a, that was more devastating, the betrayal that he had towards me than any, than hitting me. It was the, that was the worst. And, you know, early on, I also tried to have, you know, private judge. A lot of celebrities have private judges just to keep things private. It's not necessarily you're hiding anything. But who the hell wants. Saving yourself. Yeah. And also I'm a single mom and I don't want, I've, I've, my youngest daughter, it's like, I need to protect myself too. And so he would not have a private judge in the beginning. He said that I would have to sign a one-sided NDA and have to pay him $250,000 per breach. And so I was like, all right. And I was actually, at the time, he didn't know his cousin was testifying against him. And I was trying to also protect that side of things. I didn't want to destroy the person, but I wanted to protect myself. And so he, he, he, wanted it public. He wanted, well, it was an opportunity for him to to talk to the media the way he did after each time he would go in there. And, but it was hard. It's hard. It's still hard.

He won't stop. And then we had to go to court for spousal. And I was quite shocked that the, this is a different judge that she awarded him temporary spousal and legal bills. He has felony charges against him for domestic violence regarding me and a permanent restraining order. And I was so surprised by and shocked, actually, that I would have to pay him after all of this. And that, you know, because I think it sets a bad precedent for other victims afraid to leave because what if they can't afford it? And then this case could be an example for other cases coming. Well, she had to pay. You know, and I was really, you know, I respect the court, but I was very disappointed.

the decision that I went five days with this trial, all this stuff, and then in, you know, a very short time, I don't even think it was an hour to make that decision. And now what I've been going through with it. And I understand, like, if it was other circumstances, I would have to say, okay, that's the law. I have to do this and pay spousal. I get it. But under these circumstances, I don't understand. And what I'm being put through to have to defend myself is been brutal, because we're not done. He won't stop. God, Denise, my heart breaks for you. It's like, how are you supposed to love after this or try to even look for love after this? You know, it's like, I don't know. This one's a dozy. I'll tell you.

Because like I said, I've always said, never say never. I will never get married again. Never. I can't do the divorce. The divorce sucks. Yeah, I can't. It'll kill me, I think. I just can't. I can't. I would have a partner. Yeah. And you know, it's like. I think like Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn figured it out. My sister said that today. Yeah. I think I would do that. But, you know, I haven't been with anyone. I haven't dated. And it's been a year, which is a long time. Like, I envy you.

I wish I could be more like you. I mean, I haven't been with anyone. This has hurt me so much that, and because I really loved him, I thought I was building a life with him. And it's just, you know, I have to heal. Just I feel like I can compartmentalize. And I am not one that's woe is me, wallow. But with this, I've discovered things in the year that's almost been. worse than during the marriage.

Well, the betrayal. The betrayal is very, when I, when I had gone through a situation with an affair, I think, uh, it's not the act that hurts you. It's the lies. It's the lies. And you are just, it's like a whiplash and the people who are involved in it and the people, you know, like you feel so, it's slimy. It's very slimy.

And there's no way to feel good about that. Betrayal trauma is literally like it rewires your brain to not trust people to just feel. disgusting because you're the last to know and it's like nobody wants to ever be the fucking last to know and when you are it's just it's a different kind of hurt and also I think this was he didn't love me there's no way and so it feels like this was all when you asked if I feel conned a hundred percent and how I could have not seen it is what's hard but my closest friends and people in my life are like he had us fool too. But that's the part that's the heart. Actually, of anything, everything is

my daughter, Eloise, because she loved him. And for him to completely disappear from her life the way he has, in the beginning, I would have, you know, set up visitation went through my dad or something, but he just did not care about her. And that's what's the most truthful thing. He says to public, the only time he mentions her is publicly to try to get sympathy. He never tried to adopt her. Once I think he knew I would marry him without a pre-up, that was like off the table. And, you know, his family started to go fund me, page to try to get money from the public and, say, our poor granddaughter, no one has even tried to see her. And that is what more than anything is so hurtful that he completely, completely disappeared from her life. And it's like a whole family.

of scam artists. Yeah. No, they are. Exactly. I mean, it's so deep and there's so much there and so much shit that it's like, it's a lot. But it's a, um, well, you didn't deserve any of it. Thank you. You didn't. Because you didn't, you went into it with a genuine heart and good intentions. And like, you just wanted to be loved. And, you know, this guy took full advantage of a woman who's been through some shit and has a tattered heart. And, you know, maybe in the beginning he did love you. I don't know him, but then, like, you know, people change as years go on. And it's just, it's disgusting. I think I was, he didn't love me. He really, you know, set out to pray on, he knew what he was doing. That's so disgusting. Especially, you know, finding so much stuff out. And it is what it is,

but it's, I just want it over, you know. Yeah. How does it end? Well, how can we get it to? I don't fucking know. I know. I know we have some court dates coming up. I don't know. It's like, he's just going to keep. It's like you're going to pay so much money in fucking lawyers fees. more than what you're going to, he's going to end up getting in the end. You know, it's like, just fucking. I don't understand, because he was ordered also to return a laptop of mine that he took. And I don't care. It's not the laptop so much. It's the information that's on there. Order to return my late mom's things refuses. I don't know. And that's like, oh, come on. You won't even give me my mom's things. Yeah. Like, that's disgusting. It's disgusting.

And so gross. I just have to hopefully, you know, whenever it'll be over soon. But, but I, going through it, I'm like, okay, there's obviously a reason, even though it's so painful. I always say there's a blessing and a lesson. Right. So I'm trying to find that. But I, so that's where I think, okay, if I can, I want to be able to do what I can to help other victims. And then also, you know, there's some holds in our system too that I think need to be fixed

as well. Not that I have the power to do that, but at least, you know, try to start raising awareness about it. Exactly. I was going to say people can use your case as an example. you know and that that's the first step towards change and being able to change things as people seeing it actually play out in real life and then being able to be like oh you know what that's not right we need to look into this and fix it so and there's so many things i mean you know with your

divorce too that people have an opinion or they think they know everything yeah or or he's put stuff out there and um there's nobody know the only people who know what's going on inside of a divorce or a relationship, no matter how public they are, is the two people that are in it. All these other narratives that are created are not real and people need to stop believing headlines. It's just not what it is. And I think people have been conditioned so much to like read the newspaper and you know what's going on. But nowadays, these headlines come from like TikTok or like, you know, like it's not the journalism that it used to be.

Right. People need to know that there's two people that are involved in this situation and that there's always two sides to every story. I was really genuinely so touched that how much support I do have because I was scared to file that, the restraining order and then go through the trial and then have him put stuff out there. And it is, it's nice to, I'm so grateful for fans and people that have really been really truly genuinely supportive. And I'm so thankful. Well, your track record shows the woman that you are. and I think people know that you're not just going to file a restraining order on somebody unless there's a reason. And, you know, I'm thankful that people were able to see past all the bullshit and the lies that he was putting out and actually see you for the person you are.

Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Where are we going on vacation, Denise? X, Y's Club. That's the other thing. Yeah, we need to go somewhere. Where are we going? We both need a break.

Let's do it. Yeah, because you're single now too. I am, baby. So we need to do a single girl's trip. Let's do it. I'm so down. We'll have so much fun. And all I want to do is travel.

That's all I want to do. I love traveling. And now that I'm here in L.A., we got to go out to dinner and hang out and stuff like that, too. I know, me too. It's been a long time coming. I've been trying to get to L.A. for a while. And so now it's finally happening. And we close on our house next week.

Congratulations. Yeah, I'm just excited. So we'll be here. But do you think that you have forgiven everyone besides the person that you were married to? Do you think that you've forgiven everyone in your life that has, caused you any sort of hurt and pain. And where does Denise go from here? Cause me. Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, the, I feel too, like in relationships, like, even with Charlie, I feel that was our journey. I am so grateful for him because I wouldn't have our daughters,

you know, so I don't think of, it is what it is. And I'm so grateful that we're able to be in a place that were in. And of course I forgive the hurt there, you know. Well, even with the media and stuff like that, you know, I mean, like they were not kind to you. And that's got, you know, that's, that's, that was a big part of your life. And I mean, look how traumatized you were to even file for divorce this time, even though you were in the most abusive relationship ever. And he actually filed. I wanted to work things out on the side or, but then when I had to do the restraining order, there was no, done that nicely. So, you know, it was, it's really hard. I, I am a very, very forgiving person. And I, that person I would, I, I'm friends with all my exes too. That will

never, ever, ever happen. But I, I'm not, you know, I do want to find love again. I want to meet someone. I want to have fun. So I don't feel bitter at all. Yeah. But I'm just going to be a little cautious about who I meet. And, you know, I think this was an extreme case. Yeah. But and obviously I had to go through it for whatever reason, you know, as painful as it is. But I think I just have to keep the glass is always half full and stay that way and not become bitter or, you know, change who I am in a negative way. And so I feel like I'm back to myself before I married him, but only wiser. And, you know, but I like to have fun and I want to, I would like to have like a girl's vacation. Let's do it. I love that you said that you're friends with all of your exes because that's such an Aquarius trait. I'm an Aquarius myself.

You're Aquarius? Yeah, I'm January 22nd. That's February 17. Yeah. So when you said that I was like, you know, that has to be an Aquarius thing because I'm friends with all of my exes too, except for one of them that was abusive. Okay. It's impossible to be friends with him because he just can't be normal. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. I did not know your Aquarius. Okay. So you have your head in the clouds too. Listen, I'm a lover girl at heart too, baby. So I get it. I understand you so much. You do. Denise, thank you so much for coming here today. And I hope this is not the last of our conversations. It's not.

We're going to go on vacation. I'm going to hold you to it. I will go. All right. We're putting that on the calendar, guys. We're going on vacation. We have to think somewhere fun where we can go. Thank you, Denise.

This interview I have been wanting to do with you for so long. And I just got to sit across from you and feel your energy and you're just the most beautiful human. And please do not. know you won't because life has not torn you down, but please don't let anything tear you down because you're just such a beautiful soul. Thank you. I appreciate you. Next time I'm going to interview you. Yeah, let's do it. I'll be your first guest on podcast. Do it. I'll do it. Thank you guys for tuning in for another episode of Dunblond. I'll see you guys next week. Bye.

Are you ready, kids? The SpongeBob SquarePants merchandise is here. And we're talking officially licensed as seen on apparel and products at the official Paramount Shop. Featuring inclusive sizing and gear for fans of all ages. From premium apparel to must have accessories, head to Paramountchop.com slash Spongebob and use Code Podcast 20 to get 20% off. That's Podcast 20 at Paramountshop.com slash SpongeBob. Don't be a Squidward. Grab your gear today.