Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 321: Daniele Bolelli

Episode Date: January 12, 2019

Daniele Bolelli, writer, martial artist, professor, and host of the [Drunken Taoist](http://thedrunkentaoist.com/) & [History on Fire](http://historyonfirepodcast.com/) podcasts, joins the DTFH to talk about BIRTH. And Duncan has officially joined the joyous, ego-devastating, soul-deepening brotherhood of fatherhood! This episode is brought to you by [Squarespace](https://www.squarespace.com/duncan) (offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site), and [Care/of](https://takecareof.com/) (offer code: DUNCAN for 25% off your first month of personalized vitamins).

We are family. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JCPenney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting, and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford, and Jay Farrar.

Oh, and thereabouts for kids. Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in-store, and we're never short on options at jcp.com. All dressed up everywhere to go. JCPenney. Greetings to you, oh beautiful friends. It is I, D Trussell, and thou hath tuned in to the Dunkin'

Trussell Family Hour podcast, an enclave of auditory, orgasmic expulsions. I'm now officially a dad. And this is now officially a family hour. Not that it wasn't before, but it's a family hour on every level. I have spawned. I have reproduced.

I have experienced the miracle of life, and it really is a miracle. It truly is. It's just all the stuff you hear, that's it. It's truly one of the most spectacular, the most spectacular experience of my life, a kind of simultaneous death of a certain part of myself, an instantaneous rebirth, a strange form

of confirmation of some theories that I had mixed in with a ton, a billion tons, a megaton, something beyond tonnage, the source of all tons of pure ego demolishing. You didn't know shit, man. Of course, that's not how it talks. It doesn't talk like someone ear-beating you about ancient aliens, it's some rotten kegger.

It talks in the language of flowers and the wind and of forests and of waterfalls, and of the thing behind forests and winds and waterfalls. It talks like whatever it is that gold is reflecting. It talks like the source of sources, and it has a wonderful thing that it says to you, except the language that it speaks in is the language that angels speak,

and the simultaneously beautiful, yet somewhat frustrating thing about this particular language is that the moment you remember how to speak it, you instantaneously forget it because it only happens in the moment. And so, in that way, it is somehow incredibly beautiful and yet somehow completely normal

and truly transformative in the ultimate way. And also, it's scary as hell, and it is also incredibly stressful. And, man, we're exhausted right now. We're tired, we're tired. This little boy, he's so wonderful, but there's not like the normal kind of sleep is not happening right now.

One of my friends explained it to me, the way he described it to me, is like, well, you know, you've been to burning, man, so you know what it's like to not sleep in the normal way. It's like that, your sleep cycles just, whatever that was or whatever the sort of rhythm of normal day-to-day life, that goes away. And you end up in this kind of very interesting

primordial process that is just awe-inspiring and filled with so many incredible components and little, it's just, I don't know how to describe it. It's like, imagine like if the whole universe suddenly became like some kind of pouch filled with diamonds that had been harvested by a meteorite that was made of love. That helps you understand what it's like to see your son.

And then your son looks like your mom who passed, and then you just have to start crying, because what else are you gonna do? It's either cry or start speaking in tongues in the delivery room, which you definitely don't wanna do. I mean, you could do it at the hospital we were at. They, I don't think they would have minded, but, and probably they've seen it before,

but you don't wanna do that because you drowned out your baby who is speaking in tongues. He's speaking in the primary language, which is the sound children make the moment they enter into this dimension and start crying. And that is not the kind of cry that I thought it was before I had experienced it. It is truly a beautiful cry,

the sweetest sound you ever heard in your whole life. And I could go, I could probably keep doing, I could go on and on like this for probably two days straight, just making strange psychedelic analogies to describe the experience. And it still wouldn't help if you haven't been there. And I'm not saying you should go there necessarily. This isn't like some kind of like,

we're not talking about just like, this isn't an amusement park ride. And my God, I certainly would never have been equipped for it in different versions of me. But, and I don't know if anyone could ever actually be equipped for it in any version of themselves, because I don't think anyone could do it on their own. It requires a community and help and surrender

and God and gurus and whatever your particular source connection is, all that stuff, man. The rubber is really hitting the road here, sweeties. And so don't worry. I'm not gonna go on and on about fatherhood at the beginning of every single one of these episodes. It's not gonna literally turn into like the family discussion hour.

It's not gonna be the hymn of the obnoxious reproducer. I'm not gonna blast you with the sonic equivalent of Instagram pictures of my darling baby. But I hope that you can not just hear the exhaustion in my voice, but also hear the ah, because that's what I'm feeling. A lot of ah, and a lot of joy and a lot of fear and a lot of happiness and a lot of just everything.

It's everything. It's everything. It's the atom splitting right in front of you. It's the, man, I could go on and on. I won't. I could just, maybe I'll just make an album of me describing birth, the birth experience. Just me doing this.

Yeah, that'd be a great one. Maybe put some drums under it. Let's see here. Get some drums going here and let's see. Maybe like a cheesy saxophone. There we go. Perfect. Yeah, that's it.

Birth. It's like a giraffe blowing out a candle inside a black hole. Birth. It's like if you pulled a fish out of the mouth of Jesus on the cross, except it wasn't a cross. It was a fence in front of God's house. Birth. It's what would happen if a rainbow started crying.

Only it wasn't tears. It was rainbows. Birth. It's like a pinata filled with placenta that smells like something that came from a place that places come from. Birth. It happened to you.

My loves, we have a glorious podcast for you today. Danielle Bolele is back with us today and we talk about birth and we talk about death. But before that, I gotta read something to you that was dropped into my backyard by a very powerful looking crow. First this, this episode has been supported by my glorious benefactors over at Squarespace.com.

It's 2019 and you are the universe flowering into time. Why not celebrate the fundamentally creative nature of your essence by creating a beautiful website? And believe it or not, universefloweringintotime.com and natureofyouressence.com are at the moment of this recording still available. All you have to do is head over to Squarespace

and use their beautiful templates created by world-class designers to form your brand new site. Just because much like some kind of technological caterpillar we find society itself melting down into an intermediary slurry like state. Doesn't mean that you can't create a incredible website. You wanna see a great website,

not to pat myself on the back, but head over to ducatrustle.com and you will see a Squarespace website. They've got everything you need. They've got free and secure hosting. Everything's optimized out of the box. They've got powerful e-commerce functionality. I know someone who sells their socks online,

will never stop saying that. And now they have a new feature that I'm particularly excited about email campaigns. And I already tried it. Some of you may have gotten an email from the ducatrustle family hour, but what I did is I used an email list from the old forum that we used to have.

And I don't think you can do that. Based on some responses I got, I apparently you shouldn't just, you can't just randomly mass mail people, but I did get to test the email functionality of Squarespace and it's amazing. It's like some kind of digital zine. It's really cool.

And once I figure out a way to gather fresh emails from people who haven't been rubbed raw, like some kind of toddler being pulled in an inner tube and in the back of a, I don't even know what example I'm giving. Anytime you say a toddler, it sounded sinister. What I mean is when I was a kid, I would sit in an inner tube and get pulled by a boat

that went one wonderful afternoon for like three hours. And then when I got out of the inner tube, my skin had just been essentially flayed off. And it was days of agonizing pain. And many people feel like that every time they get any kind of email from anyone that they don't know or that they haven't subscribed to. So my apologies for those of you

who have been flayed by spam. Maybe it's just because I lived in a time where there was dial-up that this stuff still blows my freaking mind. But the fact that you can go onto Squarespace and just make a badass zine, essentially, and then send it out to people, it's this living, breathing thing with links

and you can encrypt things into it and just manifesto yourself into time, baby. That's what you can do at squarespace.com. Head to squarespace.com forward slash Duncan for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code, Duncan, and you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain.

Squarespace, bend the Squarespace continuum with your beautiful website. Thank you, Squarespace. Also, a sincere thank you to those of you who have subscribed over at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. I am, I did my first video podcast recently with Raghu Marcus and it's sitting up there at Patreon. It's a unlisted YouTube link

and I'm gonna be doing many more of those. And also, if you subscribe at Patreon, you'll get commercial free episodes along with access to our Discord server and I know I keep saying it, but it's definitely gonna happen. Some kind of like digital meetup. I just haven't quite figured out how to,

I'm almost there, it's a, I'm not gonna get into the technical problem I'm having right now, but it's a great way for you to support the podcast and meet other people who listen to the podcast. And once a month, I do a long rambling thing. When boy, let me tell you, the most supreme of them all, the supremist, the supremist of Supremes,

the most, it's coming, it's coming. It might be seven hours long, me just talking about spawning. But yeah, you get one of those a month too, if you sign up. It's patreon.com forward slash DTFH. And if you're interested in getting some DTFH gear, head over to dunkatrustle.com and pick up some stop drinking crows milk stickers.

Lots of other stuff is there too, but I think before you are even thinking about what kind of t-shirts you're gonna wear, you need to make sure that your neighbors know where you stand on the issue of crows milk. And I've mentioned it before, I have disavowed, I have neither for nor against it, which is why you'll also find drinking crows milk

bumper stickers at dunkatrustle.com if you're someone who enjoys that tangy, tangy milk of the crow. Speaking of crows, I've been feeding unsalted peanuts to some of the crows in my neighborhood. They love unsalted peanuts. And I saw one of the crows, I think it must be their leader, drop some sheets of paper into my yard and I picked them up

and this was written on them. One of the many interesting things about corvids is that they give gifts sometimes. If you feed them, they'll bring you, usually it's shiny things, used condoms, lottery tickets, Bitcoin, scanners. But in this case, it looks like I got some kind of manifesto, or at least some pages from some kind of manifesto.

This is what's written on them. There are many animals who can travel through the various portals and hyperspace hubs that exist within the realm of the dark plunger. Rabbits, for example, can merge into grass and enter the jade realm of Swaddlevast. This wild land is the same place that gypsy children go when they dream.

They're beautiful windmills there and I can't read much because there's either blood or some kind of red paint on this part of it. And of course, poodles and all variety of small dogs can travel to Slanton Valley, but crows are the only creature that can actually fly through the crack in the dark plunger. Of course, the great mystery here is not just

that these corvids can exit from our universe completely and travel into that sweet land that lays beyond, but that they choose to return here. To quote Abe Lincoln, only madmen and children understand the motives of crows. I agree with him completely. I spent some time interviewing both children and madmen in the hopes that they would relay why crows choose

to return to this dimension, but as you know, madmen and children have sworn many oaths and to my knowledge, the secret of why crows come back to this realm by choice has never been revealed. Fortunately, we can look to science for answers to other questions regarding the habits of crows, but we will only know what they do

while they are under the dome, so to speak. We'll never know what happens to them after they fly through the crack. For example, it has been documented that crows give gifts to humans from time to time. Certainly that's what this is. In the early days of COVID research, it was thought that these gifts were meaningless tokens

of thanks, shiny objects of no symbolic import, but now we know that crows' gifts contain within them a vibrational dream codex that can be decoded using a Stelnex-14 quantum computer because there are only two of these machines in existence at the moment, and because access to these machines is difficult to achieve, we only have this transcript originating,

originating, originating, I think, from a bottle cap that was left on the doorstep of Simon Wendler, the crow boy of Birkenshire. It appears to be the lyrics to a song, and then I can't make it out, it just, or maybe it's in Sanskrit. It does not seem to be written in English or any language that I'm familiar with.

The study of crows has been funded by the Crows' Mugwabi, not because they have any interest in collecting the poems of crows, because they want to discover how to induce lactation and female crows in captivity. Thousands of unforgivable experiments have been performed on female crows by the dark scientists. Okay, well, I'm not gonna keep reading.

I didn't get that far. I don't wanna upset the crows' milk lobby, and I certainly also don't wanna upset the crows' milk activists who appear to have trained a crow to drop whatever that lunatic rambling is in my yard. So I'm sorry I read it, but I don't have time to delete it because we gotta jump into this great episode with Danielli Bollelli.

We'll dive right in, but first, some quick business. This episode of the DTFH has been supported by Care of. It's a brand new, beautiful new year, yet you feel like you've been sleeping under a moldy rock in a subterranean vault underneath a cursed Bulgarian castle once inhabited by a non-devouring cannibal king. There was a time when you had lots of energy, glowing skin, beautiful hair, and slept like a baby.

But now you look like a fish, someone left underneath a wet towel and the bleachers at a grateful dead show in the early 60s. It's time to build a vitamin routine made for you and your health goals. In the old days, you'd hire a vitamin clown to throw random vitamins into your mouth when you woke in the morning.

You don't have to do that anymore because Care of will customize vitamins according to your lifestyle. I tried it and I really like it. They ask what you're doing, man, not in those words, but they just try to figure out where you're at. What are you looking for? You got thinning hair, you want nicer skin,

you stressed out, who are you? This isn't just some spray clown blowing nuggets into your mouth that are supposed to make you feel better. This is an actual scientific approach to nutrition. And with every vitamin, they explain why it works and what it does. They literally cite scientific studies

that you can look at so you understand why the medicine is working. I don't necessarily care about that stuff, but if you're a Carl Sagan type and you really want to know what's going in your body, Mr. I care about what I put in my body, then Care of is perfect for you. And I really actually do like to understand

why some of this stuff works. This isn't just somebody making grilled cheese sandwiches at a freaking national park festival telling you to lick ginseng off of a stop sign in the morning to feel better. These studies have been done on these pills. Care of's delicious nutrient packed quick stick powders can be added to your monthly delivery

for an extra easy boost wherever you need it. Take some vitamins, get healthy, feel better, take care of yourself. With me, you should see me right now. Me reading about vitamins right now is very interesting. It's like Nosferatu. It's like Nosferatu talking about the sun. I'm so excited about taking these vitamins

because I need it, man. I mean, I know what you've heard. When you have a kid, you sleep all the time. And that's true, but I guess something abnormal is happening because my wife and I don't seem to be sleeping that much. And we most certainly need these vitamins. Now for 25% off your first month

of personalized care of vitamins, go to takecareof.com and enter in Promo Duncan. That's takecareof.com enter in Promo Duncan. You're gonna get 25% off your first month of personalized care of vitamins. You know what, for whatever reason, you don't have the dough to buy vitamins right now

or sign up for a vitamin subscription service, which by the way, that's great. I always forget and my vitamins run out. It's nice to have them delivered right to your door, but you could still do the quiz and they'll still tell you what vitamins you need. And it's really quite interesting. Suggested some vitamins to me that I'd never heard of

and normally I'd roll my eyes and onto the next one, but in this case, they present a bunch of studies that you can look at showing why the vitamin works and you can decide for yourself. So give them a shot, support this podcast by supporting our sponsors. Go to takecareof.com enter Promo Duncan. You're gonna get 25% off your first month

of personalized care of vitamins. Thank you, Karev. And now without further ado, everyone please welcome back to the podcast, the host of the Drunken Dauest podcast, as well as the host of the award-winning history on fire podcast, as well as a living samurai, warrior, king, prince,

philosopher, poet, father, enlightened being. Tear your third eyes open and weep tears of joy upon the glowing, ethereal astral brow of the glorious, Danielle Bolelli. It's been Drunken Chancel, Drunken Chancel. Sweet. My God, it's good to see you. It's good to see you, my man.

You are my, the first friend that I have seen since I became a father. Holy shit. So I'm still like, I'm not even alive yet. I'm like being, I'm Lazarus being pulled out of her tomb right now. It's the trippiest thing. That is super exciting.

And you know, man, it's like so psychedelic and so bizarre and also so exactly what everyone says. Right. But it's kind of like, if you'd never seen an ocean and you heard people talking about it and they're like, well, it's massive. It's like crane, but it's on the ground. It moves in these shapes.

It is like, yeah, I totally get it. I know exactly what you're talking about. And then you see it and you're like, yeah, no, that's not what I pictured. Right. It is the most accessible secret society of all time. Because there's only one way in which is to have a baby. Yeah, usually that's how it works.

And there's a secret on the other side, but everyone said the secret over and over again. You'll never know love till you have a baby. You can't understand love until the child comes. You, it makes you feel like you're real. It turns you human. Oh, you hear all that shit being blithered and blathered out of the mouths of frothing breeders

when you're a cynical person who, like I have been for the majority of my life. And you think you're daft. Yeah, you're full of shit. What are you talking about? Yeah, you sound insane. Yeah, of course. What do you mean?

Are you creating some kind of hierarchy of existence where those who make children somehow know more than those who don't? If so, you're inviting massive overpopulation. You are. And yet, it's all true. Yeah, and I think that's what's funny that yes, it is true.

On the other end, it's funny how many people clearly, if they do get that vibe, it's a brief fleeting thing because they are horrible parents, right? So we're clearly something in the wiring doesn't fully connect. They may have the moment where they go, oh, you're so cute, I love you. But then they don't show it in action, right?

Right. Where they are just terrible. So there's that too, right? People who have that, maybe they think they want it, but then when they are there, they just some neural connection doesn't quite click and or maybe they just don't have their shit together. Well, they want it like,

it's like when Beverly Hills Chihuahua comes out. Right, exactly. And I want a Chihuahua. And then they get the Chihuahua and three days later, the Chihuahua is like just not eating. It's there, you know. Shitting on the floor. Getting eaten by their Anaconda or whatever.

Got an Anaconda now on a Chihuahua. Yeah, I took already 72 great selfies with the prop. Can we be done now? Can you be 18 already? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, well, I'm clearly, there's that element to it, which is, but the, so far, man,

and anything I say is obviously just noob city and what the fuck do I know? I know nothing. But that's one thing that's gonna be insanely good is the fact that in the future, you can jump back to this very podcast right here right now and go like, holy shit, that was when my life had only switched by like three, four, five days,

whatever it is. And that's never gonna happen again. Even though it's like 20 years from now, it's gonna seem so foreign, that concept. It's like, of course, that child has been there my whole time. Was there a life before? I don't even remember.

But right now is the first time you get to hear your voice when that shift is happening. Holy shit. So that's gonna be creepy. Man, weird. Yeah, it's like, you know, one thing we have in common is that, and now we do have in common before we didn't,

it used to be that you had been initiated into the cult of life and the cult of death because you have experienced both. Whereas for me, I'd only been initiated into the cult of death. I have a very sad familiarity with what it looks like, how it goes down, and the process. And from that, I had developed

an imbalanced philosophy of existence. But you have had this very balanced understanding. You've seen both sides. And one observation that one thing I've noticed is that there are opposites, birth and death, and yet there are all these similarities in the way they manifest. In which way?

Do that. So with birth, we have the doula. With death, we have hospice. With birth, we have labor pains. With death, we have the various manifestations of the ending of so many processes, right? And with birth and with death, in the beginning of each,

there is a seemingly melting down of the personality of the identity. In the case of birth, the identity hasn't been formed yet. In the case of death, the identity has dissolved prior to the moment itself. And you can't have one without the other. You know, they both depend on each other

in the sense that if no one died, then there wouldn't be new resources. And I'm sure there's a million more things. Those are the, oh, and most importantly, and most interestingly to me, is that a baby and a dying person have the same kind of emanation coming out of them. There is some kind of radiant, beautiful,

sweet energy coming out of them. The baby is pure as soul, however you wanna put it. A thing uncovered with any of the overlays of whatever society the child has incarnated into. The dying person, the overlays are melting. Yeah, all the social stuff is going away for sure. All the, who you told you were for decades, that's going away.

And vice versa, the baby doesn't have a, they haven't been around for decades. So there is no social identity set up for them yet. That's it. Yeah, that's it. And they both have the tendency to shit and piss their pants. A lot.

Yeah. And so, yeah, to me, I don't remember where I read it. Somebody said, have you ever heard the term opposite, stand back to back? Have you ever heard that? Right. It's like that. But now that I've seen life come in,

because it's like death is like a bus. It comes and picks up someone that you love and then carries them away into the unknown forever, theoretically. But then, sometimes the bus pulls up and lets out the most adorable little sweetie. Yep, yep. And the crazy thing is, he looks like my mom.

Serious. So I'm having to like, I can't even explain how psychedelic it is to be holding, or to see my wife holding my mother. A baby version of your mother, right? Yeah. It's wild. Speaking of which, what's your take on reincarnation?

Well, I think that this is a great question. We're revolving around the issue of birth itself. And to me, I think the reason for maybe, and I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think maybe the accidental reason that birth and death seem to be so incredibly misunderstood in our culture and hidden, basically, birth is hidden. The birthing chamber, the birthing room, the secluded area,

there seems to be some natural need to nest and produce a boundary and all that. Death is obviously hidden. But it's almost as though like for society to function in the way it currently does, there needs to be a sense that there is a finality to death. And for that to really work, you need to keep people away from dying people

and you need to keep people away from things being born. Because if you don't do that, then you catch this strange whiff of something, like somebody opened an interdimensional portal or a door or something. And you go, wait, what's that smell? I remember that. That's something I've found for you.

What, this is something? What is it? Oh, God, shit, I can't, dammit. And then you're just caring for the baby and you're caught up in life. What do you think? I mean, of course, nobody knows, right? That's a given.

But as far as feeling goes, I've experienced too many things that don't seem to click with this life right here right now. Has to make me think, this is not just stuff I saw in a movie or this is stuff that I never saw in a movie. But I still feel like, I don't know, there are too many weird calls of things

that are really strong in my personality and have no parallel whatsoever with my experience. Where I'm like, yeah, this is nothing I have experience in this lifetime, not even close. Like what? Like for example, I'll give you a couple of examples. Like there have been times when I heard

for the first time a language and it literally brings me to tears. And if I stop to think about it, there's absolutely nothing about it that should bring me to tears. There's nothing in the context that should create that effect, nothing, right? Yeah.

But there's a feeling of coming home, like, oh, I know the, oh my God, it's like something you have forgotten that is like a huge part of who you are, except it's not because it's not part of your this life, right? And you go like, what the hell was that? That was a little weird. Or there are parts of me where like really strong parts

of me that are not, like first time I give you an example. You ever seen the movie Legends of the Fall? No. Legends of the Fall was like a 1990s movie, Brad Pitt, World War One. World War One is kind of on the side. It's not a main part of. And usually when I really like movies,

I tend to watch them multiple times, right? It's like you every so often you pop that in. And I remember loving the movie and walking out of the theater and going, I can never see this movie again. These hits way too close to home. Like some of the images that pop up were like, oh, fuck, I know this feeling right there so well.

And then I go back and I'm like, how do I know that feeling? There's nothing in my life that's even remotely close to what I just saw there. Why does that thing hit a button that feels so more real than most of the things I've experienced in my life? And then I notice like a lot of my dreams revolves around some of the same topics or things like that.

And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I mean, it's entirely possible that there are some weird psychological process that's going on, subconscious, whatever, if you wanna. But that's not my instinct. You know, if you are gonna ask me in terms of instinct, what do I feel? I do think that there's something to reincarnation.

Now, what does that mean? I have no idea, because I don't even know when these people say, oh, it's your soul moving. What the fuck is the soul anyway? What are we talking about? What is this essence that pops up or you have no memory? Your body's different. Everything is, what is this essence?

What are we talking about, you know? Well, I mean, it's gotta be, so it's sort of, the good thing about this stuff is to, I think to talk about reincarnation does not even require talking about physical death. I think talking about reincarnation to start looking at it, you might, one way in would be to sort of study the concept of the continuity of self.

Have you heard this sort of thing before? It's in Buddhism a bunch. Yeah. So you realize there's no continuity to myself. Of course. I fall asleep. There might be a dream, but I wake up and something, some time has passed

where I just wasn't there. It's like I jump forward. And then I sort of tune in and tune out, so to speak. In other words, it's some moment in the day I might suddenly come back to myself and be clear, but in between that moment, and the last time I was clear, there's some kind of warped space.

There's a sort of, you know, this is the space within which you lose your keys, your wallet. Sure. And you're like, where the fuck is, where was I when I lost my keys and wallet? So in those moments, you've kind of leapt, you've time traveled on this. And so when you begin to really look at it,

even deeper than that, you find that maybe in every moment, there seems to be a similar cycle happening. Right. Which is within every moment, there seems to be some kind of cyclical thought pattern, a formation of a thought, the dissipation of a thought. There was a thought that seemed important.

And then the thought is, you can't even remember what it was. Of course. And so within this, you realize there's this seemingly concentric cyclical moments of coming toness and dissipation. And so there appears to be a pattern of selfness, the non-selfness or a better way to put it would be being the attention falling upon the current identity state

and then the attention being dissipated from the current identity state. Now that to me is already remarkable. It is, for sure. Yeah, so we're already kind of already reincarnating in every single moment. No, that for sure. I mean, cause you're right,

there is no who you are 10 years ago, is no who you are today. Physically, you're not the same person. Probably your ideas have shifted a little, probably there's some continuity, some stuff lost and a lot of it doesn't, for sure. And then there is the question of like, is there something beside our present identity

that sticks around? And to me, it's like babies are fascinating because the very fact that when babies are born, you can have twins. So not only they are from the same parents, they are in the same household, but you can say, oh, you know, if a brother is born five years apart,

maybe things have changed in those five years, so they're influenced, they're not bringing, no. They are identical twins. They are shared the same womb, the same pregnancy, they pop out at the same time, they're exposed to everything identical, and their personalities could not be more different. And you're like, what the fuck is this thing

that is, it's there from day one, from the first day is different. That's right. And it's not just a product of the pregnancy because again, they shared it. And you were like, okay, there's something there that babies have that is kind of independent of their parents, that is just their own.

That's right. I remember once, this was one of the cases that was least glamorous because it wasn't obvious like a oh shit moment, but to me, in terms of feeling was most powerful. My daughter was probably less than two. She was maybe a year and he was definitely after my wife died, but before she was,

so she must have been less than two or so, right around that time, right? And I remember one day, so I finally, I'm taking care of her all the time, I'm working, I'm doing this, I'm just running myself, right? I put her down for afternoon nap and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get an hour or something

to get shit done, to breathe, to do something. Yeah. And I put her down and like five minutes later, I am like, oh fuck, so I go up and I'm like, okay, okay, let's go through the process of helping you fall asleep again. Okay, great, she's asleep. I leave five minutes later and I realize

she's not gonna nap, you know? And I need that hour, like I need oxygen, right? So I'm just, there's something in me that breaks in that moment where I'm just like, fuck, I can't do this. I literally, I've done everything. And I think this is the last straw where I cannot, I don't know how I'm gonna continue doing this shit.

This is, I don't have the physical energy to take care of you anymore. I'm like, so I go up, you know, I sit by her crib and I just put my hand on her, I'm like, I'm here, I'm here, you need to cry, but I'm like, I have my head low and I'm just sinking. I don't fucking know what to do at this point. I'm at the end of my rope.

And I hear this baby cry that all of a sudden goes in one second, just dead silent, right? It stops abruptly, like, which never usually happened that fast, right? And he's like quarter of a second, he goes, ah, ah, ah. And so I look up and I'm like, the fuck is going on? You know, it's like, and I look at her

and she's just staring at me with complete presence, with like, taking a look at me and then she grabs my hand, bring her closer to her and without breaking eye contact, she starts stroking my arm. And the feeling I'm getting there is like, there's this somebody there who's telling me, I understand this sucks, I get it.

It's, you're having a hard time, but you can do this, it's gonna be okay. And for 20, 30 seconds, I don't know who the fuck is there, but that's, it is my baby and it's not my baby, you know what I mean? It is my baby, but it's my baby who's like, has lived 10,000 years and is super wise and is powerful as fuck.

And then 20 seconds later, she goes back to being a baby and she's la, la, Google, Gaga, whatever. And I was just looking at her going like, I don't know what the fuck just happened here, but that was different. That was not what I expected. And for the rest of the day, I was like, holy shit, what was this thing that just clicked there?

Yeah. This is why we need glasalia. Tell me. This is why we need speaking in tongues. Right. Because, and there's different names for it too. They're speaking in tongues or what happened in the Pentecost is not the, you know,

it's not relegated to Judeo-Christian scripture. But in other cultures, there's this phenomena. And also in the experience of people who've taken massive doses of psilocybin, there's the phenomena of suddenly speaking in a different language that is not of this earth. Something starts coming out of you, this kind of joyful song, sing song type of thing.

And that language, I think, is the language of the place that reaches out to you in those moments. Where suddenly it's as though the entire physical universe were a shadow and somebody temporarily turned on the lights. And in those moments, there is, I think, a commonality in the way people report these experiences. And usually there's a, it felt like I was coming home. Usually there's some sense of being flabbergasted,

beyond flabbergasted, a sense of, wait a minute, is this whole thing I'm doing here some kind of gag or something? Like it's a sense of, it's what are they called? The cosmic smile. Yeah, of course. And in those moments, it's like you're given this very quick, just enough view of a thing.

Of course. Also, within that, is a healing energy usually. You get healed for a second, just enough. Little balm rubbed on you, just a little balm, a little ethereal oil rubbed into your soul for a second. Yep. You know, we had to, there was this, it's very common, our child has a little jaundice,

he's better now, but we had to take him to put him under these lights at night, and it was a little, it was not what you wanna have happen, because when you're with, in the presence of your newborn, you just, it's just joy and delight, and you don't wanna go around doctors. And so this is an intense moment for us, and we're just new parents, and we're just experiencing

this realization of like the potentially, with a newborn, the situation is volatile. Oh yeah, of course. There's the potential for all kinds of things to happen. Yep. And so we're in the experience of this, and we're driving, and man, I get a text from someone who lives with Ram Dass.

As we're driving to the hospital to put our sweet boy under these lights, it's Ram Dass, and the wonderful people who live with him, and they're singing happy birthday to him. Sweet. But they're saying happy incarnation for us. Ha ha ha ha ha. That's awesome.

And in that moment, you know, first of all, when you ever get, I'm in an entirety of my life, I've never gotten a song from Ram Dass. Of course. But in the fact that it lands at the exact moment when you would want some kind of comfort, and in that synchronicity, there is not a dismissal of the reality of being a parent.

There's not spiritual bypass or nerfing of the situation. The situation is as serious as it was before. Of course, of course. And yet, there is this little twinkle in the eye of the universe saying, no, no, it's okay. There's something God's going on, yeah. And that, to me, that is where surrender must happen,

or the thing when you hear faith, they're all that stuff, right? Yeah, because I mean, ultimately, you don't know and you're never gonna know, and no matter how much, it's not gonna happen. But those moments are the ones that remind you, holy shit, there's something else going on in this universe. Besides, you know, you know, all too well,

I'm not a big fan of organizer religions and all of that. But at the same time, by the same token, I can't really make my home in a super materialistic viewpoint because that's not my experience. You know, I've experienced so much shit that does not fit in a hard materialistic worldview. That is just, I would be lying if I bought into that either

because it's not what I've lived through, you know? Right, well, this is actually one of the very interesting aspects of incarnating in the material universe. Is it during the very temporary time that we're here because the material universe has density as one of its qualities, within that density is the tendency for the material universe

to want to encompass all things. So, devotees of the material universe, and there's many different names for them, I think, what did the Buddha call them, worldlings? I've also heard the term myavadigies, but these are people who are engrossed, deeply engrossed in the material universe. So, this, the way from the quantum states

to the Kardashians, to, you know, buying sports cars, to buying statues of great saints, all of the, within this sort of engagement with the material universe, there is a kind of unspoken censorship a kind of just natural censorship of just stating the obvious, which is like, hey guys, there's something else here,

something's coming through, clearly something's coming through. It's like, in fact, it's so obviously coming through that it seems like if you pay too much attention to it, it's all there is. Yeah, and it's funny because you're right, they are glimpses, right? But they are powerful glimpses

that kind of altered your way of looking at the world. Yeah. I remember, I don't know what your earliest memories are, but I remember like, I must have been too early less, which is really early on, but I do remember sitting at the dinner table with my parents and I'm having baby food. So, baby food, you have probably what,

for the first year, you're in enough, if you are really into baby food, maybe you eat it when you are almost two or something, early enough. And in my memory, and again, who knows, maybe my memory is too weird or, but in my memory, I have a complete understanding of everything that's going on around me.

Yes, right, now what is that? Like that's interesting, isn't it? Like my sense of understanding of reality is just no different than it would be right now, right? Maybe my vocabulary is different, but I have like a full, is not your standard, two year old, you don't know your head for a mirror-ass kind of feeling,

is like a sense of complete and total awareness of what's up around me. Now, I don't know what five minutes later it was, I don't know what five minutes before it was like, but in that one memory, it's very clear that I'm like, yeah, of course, this stuff is like with the kind of maturity that I would have at a very different kind of age. And so, you know, when you get those little glimpses,

you're like, huh, I'm either deluding myself all the way and I'm making all this shit up where it's not there, or there really is all these various little moments that are sparkle through our life, really point to the same thing, which is that there's a whole other level of consciousness, there's a whole other level of reality beside this one. And in no way does this mean that this one is not important,

this one is fucking awesome. I love material reality right now. Extremely orty when it comes to a lot of things. I like it so much that the thought of that does bother me, not so much because of that itself, but because I really dig being here and now. You know, I like it. But at the same time, I also feel like, yeah,

this is the part of the game that I know and remember and I really enjoy it, but there's a much bigger game around it. And I don't really remember it and I don't really know what happens and I don't really trust anybody else answers about what happens, but I am aware that it's there. Yeah, well, you know, I think this is one of the many things

I love about Buddhism is the invitation is you, well, listen, we're going to tell you something. And what we're going to tell you is why suffering and how suffering ends. And within that, there's going to be a lot of data and it can get as complex as you want it to be. But first step, here's why we suffer, here's the way for suffering to end.

And within that, you hear that. And so then within that is a kind of invitation to like go through a kind of process, I guess you would say. And the process is got a lot of different names and some people call it meditation. And so, and within that meditation is actually, because if you're lucky and you run into a Buddhist, he was been trained and he was worked with,

you know, who's like done maybe a little bit more than just reading books on Buddhism. Because that's how it's many aspects or facets or lineages are actually oral traditions in the sense that it's spoken to you. It's not just read. There's like a kind of process that starts happening. And the process involves a kind of curiosity,

which is, okay, could this be true? It could it be that when we see these moments where our child strokes our arm in our worst moment and it's not our child anymore. Right. Or when your baby looks like your mom, or when suddenly you, it's not that you've run out of words

to describe some phenomena. It's that those words aren't joyful enough. And so you need to sing and the song you wanna sing is coming from the place where language comes from. And so it sounds like all languages, but it's just the song of joy. Now, these things, what are they?

Delusion, whatever, the material universe and the materialists will tell you, you know, this is just hippie bullshit talks. Good for them, maybe it is. So, if there was a glimmer of curiosity, that this could be real, then I think that, and you had heard someone that you trusted tell you, okay, here's the thing, I don't want you to believe me

when I tell you that what you're experiencing is actually the fundamental nature of reality. Or I don't want you to just believe me when I tell you that what you're seeing is a reflection of a, a transcendent reality, or a reality that, as a Pima children puts it, where are the sky?

Where are the blue sky? Everything else is just weather. Now, what the entire material universe itself, you're saying is like a cloud? The stock market, my car, my family, and all this, you couldn't just be a client, you'd be telling me it's missed. Right.

Now, if you hear that from someone's, you know, screaming on the side of the road and like throwing cans at cars, lunatic, you know, that's one thing, but if you hear it from enough people who don't just seem, fill it like academic, but actually seem to be somehow happy in a real way, then I think that you owe it to yourself to explore the process they're talking about.

And what they say is, well, one thing you would do is you sit still and you'd start doing this every day and you find a teacher who knows a little bit more about this than you and you work with a teacher and then see what happens. And somewhere within there, you might begin to experience something that isn't, where you don't have to have a fucking baby

or watch your wife or mom or dad die to experience it. Right. It may be that right there in front of you in every single moment, in every single moment, right there in front of you, is that thing that in the most rarefied and quite often catastrophic situations appears. That it can show up, definitely.

Let me ask you a Buddhist question. Actually, before I ask you a question, depending on how we translate it, like for the whole essence of Buddhism, that you were referring to earlier, the Four Noble Truths, the various steps, how do you translate it usually? Like what are the, some people use the word attachment,

some people use the word passion, like what's your thing? Like, okay, so some like the most catastrophic, say life is suffering. The more mellows say suffering is inevitable in life. There are various ways to look at it. Right, exactly. So let's start with that. What are your, in the Four Steps, how do you phrase them?

Okay, so the first, so first of all, this is unfortunately my familiar, and this is something my teacher talks to me about a lot, which I, it points out a lot, which is like, everyone seems to be way more into the first two than the last two, which is interesting, because suffering we can like really get into, you know? But like the end of suffering, what the fuck is that?

So, but, so yeah, dukkha. So yeah, we hear the first, and I think what's cool about it is it can function on, wherever it clicks with you, that's where you need to be with it. So when the first, so you hear life is suffering is what you hear, life equals suffering. Now, that, for some people that doesn't click at all,

because they're young or they have something happening that's nice or they're in this nice situation, and so they look at the round and they're like, no, what are you talking about? It's a very pessimistic way to see things, friend. So I think that for some people who are in like, you know, who are in turbulent situations, that can make more sense to young people

that can seem absolutely just cynical and pessimistic and ridiculous. But as I've heard it described to me, one way to replace life is suffering, you could say wobbly wheel, which is when you're like, if you were riding your bike and the air was a little flat in it, this is my teacher, David Nickturn,

if the air was a little flat in the tire and you're riding your bike, it feels something feels off, there's a little offness to things, right? And kind of like, what's good? This just, same thing, seem a little out of balance here. So there's a, the best way to put it is,

I call AT&T because I wanna get my internet installed. AT&T, when I'm on the phone with them, somewhere within the 30 minutes, I've been trying to negotiate this thing, it seems like it should be more simple, the phone gets disconnected. I scream, am I ceiling or something? What the fuck is happening here?

As though that doesn't always happen whenever I get on the phone with some kind of cable provider, as though that just isn't the way it is. I act as though this is the first time this has ever happened. And yet the reality is, the state of things in the place

that we currently are at is wobbly. And this is what gets translated into impermanence. But really it's just things here, kind of like slippery and they like, they don't really work out, they sort of like, the ball, it'll go into the, sometimes, but a lot of the times, man,

it's foul balls and things are dingin' and dongin' a little slightly out of tune. So this would be life is suffering, which is just more like, it's kind of like, things are a little wonky here. And I mean, it's a given that, even if you don't wanna say life is a suffering, it's undeniable that suffering

is an unavoidable aspect of life. And they're rather big one, right? So that just like, there's not even an argument about that, it's like a self-evident statement. So he's like, I don't think it is for some people. Really?

Yeah, I don't think it's self-evident for some people. I think that suffering is a very heavy work. So when some people here are suffering, they think, what am I fuckin' Job? What are you talking about? Right. Suffering. Well, but shit happens to everyone at some point.

Yeah, yeah, well, so yes, but for you it's self-evident. And for me it's self-evident. But what's interesting about this is that it actually, for some people might require a little bit of exploration. Because hearing, oh, life is suffering. What does that even mean? You know, I take hot baths, I get a nice quiche.

And I get that. That's why I don't particularly like the life he's suffering because it makes it sound like that's all that life is. Whereas clearly, of course, as you say, yeah, I take hot baths and there's all these others. Life is awesome. What are you talking about? You know, I get that part too.

That's why I'm not saying that's not real, but it's like, in addition to all that, there's also shit, a lot of suffering. That's just how it goes. Oh, no. It's like, all that stuff you're saying is true, plus there's also these other stuff. So that's like, okay, so we're there.

Then there's the whole suffering is caused. And again, depending on how you translate it, either by desire or attachment to one's desires or something like that, right? And probably attachment may be a more refined translation because desire make it sound like having desires is bad. And you know, having desires is inevitable. You're human, of course, you're like.

I think for this, the second Noble Truth, it's good to like dive into the wheel of life and to look at that cog in the center of the wheel of life. And what we see there is usually three animals that represent aggression, desire, or attraction and aversion. So this is the sort of, this is what much of our suffering spins

upon these three components, which is that in any given moment, the thing that has brought us to take the hot bath is that we want it to get in the hot bath. But then when we are sitting in the hot bath, what happens? Well, the water gets a little cool, doesn't it? And now we gotta heat it up so we can be comfortable again in the hot bath.

And now, not only is that happening more in the hot bath, but suddenly it's like, you know what? This isn't really relaxing me that much. And then we think about Terry. I can't believe fucking Terry did that to me. Why did Terry's always doing that thing? That was a mess. He's a dick, you know?

And then your heart, and now you're lost because now you're kind of thinking in the bath, this wonderful, warm bath you're gonna take, you're thinking about kicking Terry in the fucking balls the next time he does that thing. And by then the water got cold again. And now you heat it up. And so now we have, what's functioning here

is we are having a sense of, fuck, I wanna kill Terry, aggression. What's happening is I want the water to be hotter. Desire. What's happening is the water is too cold, aversion. And so this is, I think what is within the package of the cause of suffering is attachment. But within that I think are these three kind of never ending.

We either don't wanna be where we are, right? We wanna be somewhere else, which is pretty much the same thing. When we're somewhere else, we can't really be there because we're fucking pissed off about something. Absolutely. And so that is the second part. Which brings me to where my question originally was.

That's where I was heading with the third part, right? With the whole idea that in order to stop suffering, you stop and again, depending on the translation, either desire or you cut the attachment to your desires and all of that. Which if you tell me lessening attachment makes your life better, I get it. It's again, self-evident, right?

It's like, if your happiness is constantly dependent on reality catering to your expectations, good luck. Cause a lot of the times it's not gonna work out that way. Plenty of times the universe is not gonna deliver what you wish. So if, again, unless you get that scenario, you're suffering, well, good luck, cause you're gonna be suffering 90% of the time.

But, okay, so I get lessening, but the idea of like extinguishing, like having no attachment, having no, I'm like, how special in light of where we started, you know, you have a baby, of course you have attachment. Sure. You know, nobody can tell you, ah, these babies like any other baby or like, you know,

it's like, of course you're gonna have a shitload of attachment, that's just a given. That's like not even, how do you reconcile that? How do you reconcile those two aspects? The fact that on one hand there is obviously a wisdom to the idea of lessening attachment, but with the way normally the Buddhist third aspect is phrased of like the extinguishing of the attachment

versus the reality of, hey, I just had a baby, I'm a father, I mean, up on the moon for days, I'm so happy, this is the coolest thing ever. How those two things, I guess it's like, how does love, super intense, extreme love can go in your life, hand in hand with this concept of lessening or extinguishing attachment? Okay, that's great.

So I think that the extinguishing maybe is a good word for it. And I think probably to get into that concept maybe the fourth noble truth has to sort of get thrown in because the fourth noble truth is the process through which this could happen. And within that process is an invitation, I guess,

you could say, to experienced truth, reality itself. What are you? What is reality itself? What's happening here for reals? And so maybe the idea would be that by understanding reality as it is, or this thing that having a true experience of reality, this other stuff might naturally be extinguished.

Do you know what I'm saying? That there might be a kind of like, in other words, it's kind of like, oh my God, I'm stuck in this tiny little room and it sucks. I don't like it in this little room. This little room is too small for me. This is the identity. This is the focus on the self.

This is the concept of this is me, this is me. I'm a body, I'm a self, I'm a consciousness. I have my predilections, I have things I like, I have things I don't like, and this is me. And then within that, of course, there can only be disappointment in infinite, endless disappointment. Your food doesn't taste quite right.

You didn't get the job you wanted. How come I can't find this thing that I was looking for? And why does it always, always happening to me? Oh, that game, right? So if there was a way to not let go, so to speak, of that, you can hold on to that as much as you want. But maybe a better way to put it would be to zoom out from that and then realize the spacious quality of reality

or what is also called emptiness. I think sometimes shunyata, but I could be wrong about that. In other words, if rather than letting go or giving this idea of like, I'm gonna give up loving my son, I'm gonna give up loving my wife, I'm gonna give up loving podcasting and having these kinds of conversations. No, it would be more along the lines of, what am I?

Really? And the discovery of that, or rather the, I think, restoration of that fundamental state that exists primary to the overlays we call our identity, would naturally have within it the quality of letting go, I think, of suddenly, if suddenly you realize, like, wait a minute, okay, I'm thirsty. So what do I do?

I go and drink water. Okay, great, I'm drinking water now. Thirst is gone. Okay, well, that's great. It actually worked and I need water to live, right? So, but if there were another kind of thirst for a lot of people that's, I need to get laid, man. I need to get paid.

I need to get in shape. I need to get into this job. I need to be famous. I need to be the most famous. I need to be president. I need to be king. I need to be the queen. And these kinds of things, if through just a sense

of mindfulness, of watching, you begin to realize, wait a minute, every single time I get to one of these places that I thought I wanted to be, nothing changes. That one, 100% agreed. And I think there's a way to see it where, yes, absolutely it's real, that's the deal. The part that I find tricky is the real deep source

of love for, let's say, a person. In this case, like a kid, right? Yeah. That's not like, oh, I have this flimsy desire, ego-driven desire to be famous or whatever the fuck, has nothing to do with it. That's like a more primal thing. And yet, precisely because it gives you so much,

it also what your happiness can go up and down. Like it's completely out of your hands because you're so tied to something else outside of you. Yeah. And so, the paradox of loving without attachment. It's one of those that like, yeah, good fucking, I mean, you can love without attachment, some random lover that you run into

and you have this amazing meeting when you do and then you break apart and it's fine and then you meet again and it's awesome. Love without attachment is awesome, is great, that's different. That's not gonna be the way with your kid. Okay, let's take the word attachment and put it aside for me.

Sure, sure, sure. And now let's say love without fear. Okay. So let's go there first. Yeah, that's a good one. I think if we can love without fear, then that's gonna be a, in other words, with my child.

Sure. If I can give my child as much love as I, not give, that's the wrong way to even put it. If, so, so this is what I think. This is what I'm being taught and this is what I've in some small way experienced in a slight, slight way, I think you would say. There is a fundamental goodness to reality.

So, Shogun Trumpa talks about this in his great book, Shambhala, the way of the peaceful warrior or something, the way of the warrior's, warrior's way, I don't know, whatever. Shambhala's chogun, look it up. But he's, so before you even get into like stories of who I am, this is my son and I am a man and I was my child and I am a then, this is the thing.

So start with this. Look wherever you're at right now, just look, right? In any color, any color. It's beautiful. A beautiful, this color is beautiful. The color of the table is beautiful. The way your hand touches the table and you feel that contact with the table,

it's beautiful, just that simple, simple elemental contact with reality is beautiful, right? That in its own way. When you're washing dishes and the water falls on your hand. And certainly, when you are holding your child against your body and you feel that weight against your body and you feel that, like just that, that. Now that gets described by Chogun Trumpa

as fresh baked bread, right? And I love that because I think that's a really good way to put it. It's like when you've just taken a nice, nice, some wonderful thing out of the oven and that first, wow. Yeah. That's it. Now that is it.

That's it. It's not complex. It's the most simple of symbols of simple. Can't be bought, can't be sold, can't be controlled, can't be rented, can't be hoarded. It is outside of our grasp in the same way maybe our reflection is outside of our grasp. So the grasping into the mirror to touch our own face

is going to be a very futile thing. And yet, it'll be really frustrating if you don't know that all you have to do is reach in the opposite direction. They'll touch your face. And then you could touch your face. But if we're all grasping at the reflection of the sweetness in our children, in our lover, in our job,

then we are going to be frustrated in the same way a person reaching for food that was reflected in a mirror is not gonna get a good meal. Do you see what I'm saying? I do. So in this way, I think the cultivation of a connection with the fundamental goodness of things would not create an ambivalent state

or connectivity with our children or our lovers or our friends, but in fact, would make it so much bigger, so much more real, so much more spontaneous and certainly far less frightened. Right. That makes sense. You even got the dogs excited with this brilliant statement.

Yeah, I've got it. Basically, when I say something, no, it's the Instacarpit. It's gonna be taken care of right now. But yeah, so that. Because it's like, if I'm sitting across from a thing, that I really love. And I am also terrified of losing that thing.

Yeah, of course. Then a shadow is going to fall upon my actions. Of course. That, I think, is what I'm learning about Buddhism right now. So fucking hard. Right, because it's just such a human thing to, the more you love something, the more you are scared that it's gonna get taken away.

And in an impermanent world, well, oh, sorry, yeah, it will get taken away at one point or another. And so there is that constant, oh, fuck. It's today's the day, it's right now the moment. Is it gonna change? Is it going to? I like it the way it is now.

I don't want it different. I don't want it. And again, you are with the full understanding that you are in a world that's constantly transforming. So we're seeing, if you fall in love with what it is right now, that's awesome. Problem is, it's not gonna be the way in a day or 10 or 10 years or something.

Stuff is not gonna work out the same. Well, we got it. So this is where the practice comes in. Because what are you practicing? And so that practice would be, if I'm saying, and I am saying, in any moment, in the same, like we've discovered this recently, unfortunately,

you split the fucking atom, and the energy that gets released, oh my, it's just fucked. Similarly, in any given moment, I think there is a kind of atom splitting possibility, which is that just below all the overlays is the love. And that love is not held inside anything. And so, yeah, it's all gonna change.

Of course. If you start spending time exploring this present moment by stopping for a second and listening, not just with your ears, but with everything. And be here, you're not putting yourself in a hypnotic state. But the term I like to think of is poodle nose. When I'm sitting outside and I look at my poodle's nose,

this poodle is fully in the moment. Its nose is like, it's right there, poodle nose. And that kind of state of being connected, facing the blast furnace of reality, within that, there is suffering. And within the exploration of that suffering itself, and the removal of the story of why the suffering is happening, but just the pure experience

of the suffering state itself, fuck the story. Yeah, whatever, you did a thing, and it got the thing, and he did the thing. Just for a second, peel it away, and experience the suffering as it is. This is contact with truth. And then, by going into that, you realize, oh wait, suffering seems to be the other side of love.

If I just flip it over or go through it on the other side is, oh, wow. And that's where we are. And they both exist simultaneously. But if we're gonna get, to get through hell and Dante's Inferno, what do you gotta do? Yeah, and I think that's,

the very concept is where many people get turned off by Buddhism, because they feel like, oh, then in order to suffer, I cannot experience love. I need to be this cold fish who goes through everything, goes through life without, because inevitably if I'm gonna be in love with something, that means I'm gonna be attached,

or if my attachment is gonna bring misery, so I have to stay away from passions, I have to stay away from excitement, and be in this cold soul that's neither here or there, and that's clearly not particularly appealing. That's why we need to go hang out with some Buddhists, because if you hang out with some Buddhists, or just go online and pull up some lectures of Buddhists,

they don't look like cold fish. No, no, exactly. They're like little loaves of fresh baked bread, talking, there's true joy in them, and then you see, wait a minute, they're not like comatose, numb down, novocaine. No, no, exactly. So, but with Buddhism, it's not like other things.

It's like, Buddhism is like, you could say, a kind of cosmic gym that weights are there for you, you gotta go in. Yeah, yeah, of course. I'll tell you, since we're gonna wrap up, I'll tell you a story from my new favorite Zen master, who doesn't know that she's a Zen master. My lady, Savanna Riavna, she has,

this is what happened for a new year. So, she's getting sleepy, she's yawning, she looks up at the clock, she noticed that it's 11.54 p.m., six minutes to midnight, the new year at Devisig. What does she do? She goes to sleep, cause she's sleepy, right? It's like, if you tell me that,

you know, you do that at 10 p.m., I get it, right? It's like, okay, I'm fucking tired. Wait, you're talking about New Year's Eve. Yes, New Year's Eve, right? It's like, it's 11.54, if you brush your teeth twice, you make midnight, right? And then there's all the new year or whatever, and she's just like, yeah, you know,

clearly what the calendar tells her, what social conventions tell her, she should be feeling excited about, it's like, I'm sleepy, when I'm sleepy, I sleep. It's very simple, you know? The fact that if it's 11.54 or is whatever, it has no bearing on the fact that I'm sleepy, I wanna sleep now, so I could die.

And the best part about it is not done with a sense of rebelliousness or, hey, look at what a cool punk thing I do that's different from everybody else, just like, no, I'm just sleepy, and so I'm gonna go sleep, good night. Yeah, I love it. That is a koan.

Right. And you are a walking koan. And the fact that you've swept in here and just came when I texted you, I didn't think that you'd write, I'd summon a bolelli. You manage, you see. An angel has appeared. All that training, you managed to just put three words

in a phone and a bolelli sum. It was all worth it then. How can people find you, sir? All the good work. I started an Instagram account of all things. I've never done that before, so I'm not sure why, but what the hell, why not? So, I think it's my name, Daniela underscore bolelli,

I'm pretty sure. Cool. I'll link it to my website. And then all the good stuff, you know, Twitter, my first initial D, last name bolelli, all the stuff that Google will help you with. Wonderful. All the links will be online to find you.

Hare Krishna, my friend. I'll see you soon. That was awesome, dude. That was fun. Little Buddhist dialogue. Yes. Thank you so much for listening, my lovely friends. Much thanks to Daniela bolelli

for appearing on the episode. Thank you, Kerav and Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. Help support the podcast by checking out the sponsors. And if you like us, don't forget to subscribe on iTunes. All right, we'll see you next week. Until then, Hare Krishna. We are family.

A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JCPenney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford and Jay Farrar. Oh, and thereabouts for kids.

Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com. All dressed up everywhere to go. JCPenney.