Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 333: Justin Roiland

Episode Date: April 13, 2019

Justin Roiland, co-creator of Rick and Morty, and voice of Rick and Morty, joins the DTFH! This episode is brought to you by [Squarespace](https://www.squarespace.com/duncan) (offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site).

We are family. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JCPenney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting, and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford, and Jay Farrar.

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to the ontological blaster known as the DTFH. Do I really know what ontological means? Not really. Let's look it up. Yes, just what I thought, relating to the branch of physics dealing with the nature of being. Yep, ontological blaster. That is what you have tuned into.

And we're pouring in to your delicious waxy ear caverns on this very special week. Not only is this the birthday of the founder of the Church of Satan, Anton Leves, it is also the first time in human history that we laid eyes on a black hole. They took a picture while they combined a bunch of pictures. Well, they used radio imagery. Well, they captured slivers of light and used algorithms

to weave together an image of a black fucking hole. A singularity. Do you remember the black hole movie? If you don't, it's probably because you are younger than me. But I remember the black hole movie. I remember how it impacted me in the most serious way, not just because there was a weird robot with that blender thing that shot out of his chest and ripped that guy's heart

blended people up, but also because it was a fucking black hole. It was a movie about a black hole. And for a young deed trussell, there were a couple of things that were agony for my brain. Number one, the realization that I would never lay eyes on a living dinosaur. I don't think at the time we knew that birds were sort of evolved dinosaurs, and certainly we didn't

know that some of our politicians could transform into reptilians. We just knew there was a thing called the brontosaurus in a meteor hit, and you're never going to see the fucking brontosaurus, except in those books with pictures of velociraptors perched on their back, ripping the brontosaurus flesh off as though it were fucking jerky.

Do you remember those, the hyperviolent dinosaur pictures when you were a kid? I don't even know if they still do the hyperviolent dinosaur pictures, or maybe I just ended up with a fucked up book of dinosaurs. But the book I had, it was definitely not tiptoeing around the fact that life for a dinosaur, if you were a brontosaurus, basically meant at some point a bunch of velociraptors

were going to jump on your back and slowly rip big steak chunks out of your back while you balefully looked at them in this sad way, not even fighting back up to your fucking knees in primordial swamp water. And then it would slowly dawn on you that you're never going to see that. You're never going to get to witness that. You're never going to see a pterodactyl.

You're never going to get to see the mighty tyrannosaurus rex. And then you find out about a black hole, this infinitely deep, hyper-compressed, magical, potentially a magical gateway to another realm that was somewhere in space, but you were only going to look at pictures of it. And so Disney releases the black hole movie. I still remember the soundtrack to the black hole movie.

It goes, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I'll see if I can find it. I used to have this album, but just sitting and staring at it and wish I was in a black hole. But he not had a beat to this. I am a hole of black. I'm smoking stars like cracker. You will never reach me.

You will never bleach me. And if you do, your ass and your shoes will be black years apart while I spaghettify you, bitch. Fuck your science facts and fuck your science fiction. I shit on your physics, wipe my ass with your religion. Albert Einstein said, God, don't play dice, but I watched God and Jesus run a train on Einstein's quiet life. That's why she came.

Neil LaGrosse Tyson coming for you, gonna suck your dick while I turn you into star goo. Game of thrones, give me a fucking reason that you put an entire year between your seventh and eighth season. Who would have thought that black holes would be Game of Thrones fans? Well, we've got a very special podcast for you today

with one of my favorite creative minds on the planet. He is the co-creator of a series called Rick and Morty. Not only that, but he makes amazing video games. And he's got one that you can play on VR called Accounting, which is one of the funniest, craziest games I've ever played. And real soon, he's got a game coming out called Trover. In fact, pre-order it if you can.

Give this man some love. He deserves it. How do you become the conduit of one of the funniest shows on TV right now and maintain a supremely cool, humble attitude? How does your ego not swell to the size of a billion fucking planets? How do you not implode and turn into a black hole

and suck all of reality into your deep, compressed neuroticism? Somehow, Justin Roiland has pulled this off. We had a glorious conversation. We're going to jump right into this. But first, some quick business. And before I forget, if it's still online, check out House of Cosby's, another wonderful creation

of Justin Roiland. I think you might have made it with Harmon. Thank god these two super geniuses are making stuff together. All right, that's it. We're going to jump right into this great episode. But first, some quick business. May the freedom warlock shine his seven rays of glory upon today's sponsor, Squarespace.com.

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going home to the sea. And yes, baby turtle going home to the sea.com is available. Thank you Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. Darling friends, we also have a wonderful Patreon page where you can have early access to episodes of the DTFH and every month, an hour long, rambling thing that I do.

And for those of you who are currently Patreon friends, I've betrayed you completely last month. I got too busy working on a thing, which I cannot name, but fear not, for this month will be the month that I explode so much, sweet, hot, vibrating glory all over that Patreon that it is gonna cause earthquakes, opposite of earthquakes. It's gonna cause earth re-stabilizations.

It's gonna cause the opposite of landslides, land sucks. And it's gonna bring back to life things all over the planet and these things will climb from the earth and they will come to your home if you're one of my subscribers and they're gonna love on you and make you feel the way you know you have needed to feel for a very long time is they run their thick callus,

mildly rotting hands and paws upon every inch of your sweet, trembling body, dripping, wet, hard and ready to get down with the undead, recently revitalized by my Patreon page. Head over to patreon.com forward slash DTFH and sign up. We also have a shop located at dunkatrestle.com. You can get stop drinking crow's milk stickers and you can let people know your stance on this issue,

which to this very day is rocking our society, is causing divisions within families, within relationships. I've even heard that colonies of termites are collapsing because of this terrible issue. You gotta decide where you stand. We're no longer at a place where you can ride that fence. Do you drink crow's milk or are you against it? Let your neighbors know.

Go to dunkatrestle.com and click on the shop. Okay, my darling sweets with us here today is the glorious body containing within it the infinite mind that is one half of the creative engine of the magnificent animated series, Rick and Morty. Everyone please at this very moment, whether you believe in this shit or not, I want you to open your chest with your psychic hands,

pull out your throbbing golden chakric walnut heart and zing it like a baseball into the ethereal pulsating mycelial fabric that makes up our entire universe so that at this very moment, today's guest receives a much deserved reign of walnut heart love upon his astral being. He deserves it.

He created, co-created an incredible series. Rick and Morty, he made House of Cosby's, he made accounting and now he's given us what certainly will be one of the funniest video games of all time, Trover saves the universe. That's gonna be out real soon. Maybe by the time you listen to this, it'll already be out.

And I'm sure that over the next thousand years, this immortal infinite being disguising himself as a mere human will bring us many, many, many more laughs which this particular sector of the multiverse so desperately needs. Now, everybody, welcome to the DTFH, the great Justin Roiland. I hate headphones, I don't like them.

Well, they get your earwax smashed down. It's also just, I don't like hearing my own voice. Oh yeah, that's just nice. Even when I record the show, like Rick and Morty or Solar or any video game stuff, I'm just like, no headphones, I never wear them. Whoa! Yeah, unless they're like, no, you have to have to.

What is it you don't like about your voice? I don't know, I hate myself. Oh really? Yeah, I'm one of those. Which part of yourself do you hate? I don't know, I think I've just always sort of had this from a very young age, this kind of sort of just dissatisfaction with me.

You know, when I was real little, it was like I had freckles all over my face and I was like, oh fuck man, no one's ever gonna love this ugly, like you know, that kind of shit, you know? You told yourself that, does that sound like something somebody said to you? No, no, I fucking, nobody else said it.

I was very much, I mean, I would just sort of gauge the, and I'm talking like kindergarten, first year, I mean, real little, I was like very down on myself, but I wasn't like I was some morose, miserable, you know, head down kid, I had tons of fun, but I definitely had a deep sort of like understanding, and like, okay, girls don't like me, I'm definitely not the popular kid,

and I'm not, I don't trust myself enough to be outgoing and fun and wild, you know? Yeah, sure. And like to sort of win people over, and it just got worse and worse, but yeah, I also do this thing where I would like, you know, not to say my parents didn't give me enough attention, but maybe they didn't,

because I used to, my mom would be watching TV, and I would just harass the fuck out of her until she would start punching me in the arm. What? It wasn't like, you know, abuse, I loved it, I wanted her to punch me in the arm really hard, and I've had girlfriends in the past, where I'm like, we just punch me in the arm really hard.

Isn't that weird, how that fucking weird? It's not a sexual thing, it's sort of just more like this weird, like, I don't know, it's, yeah. But looking back, I was like, oh, that was me just trying to eke out any kind of like, you know, affection and love for my mom. From your mom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, like, best parents, like fucking amazing parents. I just think my relationship with my dad kind of, it's not, there's distance there, it's sort of, it's not like this open loving, I love the guy, he loves me, but it's like, you know, it's not like this insane, you know, you know, like crying together,

and like, yeah, yeah, there's, I've never cried, we've never had real intimacy, I guess is the thing. So, and so I've talked about that shit in therapy, and I'm like, I think it's definitely a contributing factor, but yeah, I don't know, it's just a bunch of shit, just like where you're just like, I don't fucking like myself. I'm better about it now, but yeah.

Well, this is, there's this, Chogan, Trump, and Rinpoche said something super smart that I think about, which is, before you can reject yourself, you have to know who you are. And a lot of times, like people who, this is like, this, these days, man, lots of people hate themselves. Oh, sure.

It's a bit, it's like. It's a sick time we live in. Yeah, people are really hard on themselves, and I used to hate myself. I used to, I used to not only hate myself, like I fashionably hated myself, like I thought it was embarrassing if people liked themselves.

Oh, okay. And to this day. I'm kind of that way. Yeah, man. And you run into, well, there is something, cause like, sometimes you might run into someone who's, who's like. Just so kind, like, loves themselves,

and they're, oh, and you're just like, dude. You're so schmaltzy, you're like, get the fuck out of here. Okay, you love yourself, whatever. What are you gonna fucking puff yourself up and go down the Macy's Day parade? You're so confused, so funny. But you know what?

Well, keep going. Yeah, well, I wanna hear your point, yeah. Let me just make sure this recording, by the way, cause this is a good cover. I'm glad we're talking about this, because this is like something that's, I actually, someone asked me this the other day. What do you do about hating yourself?

And then I'm studying meditation with this guy, David Nickturn. I got on the phone with him. I was talking FaceTiming with him. Yeah. And he was explaining to me about this conceptualization of the self in Buddhism called Abhidharma. And it's basically, there's like five Abhidharmas,

which are your senses. And then the sixth Abhidharma is your thoughts. Then the seventh Abhidharma is your subconscious, you could say, or like the, not just that though, but like the, in Buddhism, there's reincarnation. So it's like the reservoir of all your past lives and shit. Interesting. And then the eighth one is like the Akashic records,

the archetypes, the sum total of all human experience. And that is what anyone is. So these days, people think they're the sixth Abhidharma. That's how they, they don't, you look at your body, you don't really think that's who I am, but this never ending sort of expulsion of thought patterns that form some kind of cycle that you say, oh, that's me. I'm the think, I'm the thoughts, I'm the thoughts.

I must be that. And that's usually when people say they hate themselves. They don't really hate themselves. They hate that incessant. It's like living next to someone with a shitty dog. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's, it's sort of that, that gets into sort of the, you know, observing your thoughts, stepping outside of your thoughts,

like trying to separate your being from, from the rattling noise in your brain and sort of like step, stepping away and, and just sort of like, like what, what, what the fuck is this shit? Like what is all this stuff? Yeah, I mean, that's very much like, you know, like, I don't know, power of now or presence

and just sort of like disassociating from the egoic mind, all that crazy shit, but it works. I mean, if you, I've had a lot of times where I'm freaking out, I'm anxiety or whatever. And then, and then I'm like, okay, like what, I just kind of try to elevate, pop to the part of my brain that's sort of above all of that madness and, and just look at it

and observe it and let it continue. But just from a perspective of watching and your brain kind of starts to go, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? Stop watching me. Yeah, you know what I mean? If you can, if you can click into that spot,

it's hard to do, but if you can click into that spot, it's kind of interesting to see how your brain, you know, reacts real quick, just to clarify, those confident people we were talking about a second ago that walk around and you're just like, oh my God, I think for me it's like, you know, it's a bit of like, I don't want to say jelly, maybe envy, but more so,

it's closer to what you were saying where it's like, it's like, oh God, like you're not that fucking cool. You're not even cool, you're not that adorable. You know what I mean? These people are like, they're just like, no one ever told them like, hey, yeah, it's not like, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean?

They had some blessed, like, or they're just impervious, they're just like so, there's a thing in their brain that's given them so much confidence that, like you ever see people on like American Idol and they're trying out and they're clearly incredibly talentless, not that I watch that show anymore. I mean, I'm talking, I haven't seen it since fucking forever, but I used to,

like William Hong, you know, that's when I was watching it back that long ago, but I always found it fascinating, these people that would argue with them, like, no, I'm fucking good, like fuck you. And I'm like, I kind of want a little of that. Like I would love that, because I don't have that. I have the thing where if someone said that fucking sucks,

I just fall into a pit of shame and I'll, and it's like, it's too easy to just break me, you know? Or at least I guess it used to be, but yeah, man. I've gotten pretty numb to it though, like as of now, I feel like, I'm just like, yeah, I just want to, I've gotten numb to it in the art, like making art, creating content. You have to be, right?

Because your head's in the fucking blast furnace, man. It's like, you are, your show is like hyper-analyzed in the most insane way, and not just hyper-analyzed by like dopes who are like whatever, supers, like. Smart people, man. Super smart people breaking you down, like, you know. I can't even read it, I'm just. Yes, by the way, I'm saying this more as a.

And it's Dan too, obviously, Harmon, you know, like, but yeah. I'm imagining, it's not like I'm like. I'm the dummy of the group. It's not like I just, you know. I'm the Garfunkel. Ah, please. No, no, Garfunkel is great, but I'm just saying. You're not a dummy, and you're not the Garfunkel,

even, I don't know, but I have, I'm not, I just want to like say, it's not like I say, mostly anytime I've read anything about the stuff you're making, it's like worshipful. And I do, and I don't want to get too far off course, but I do want to bring up a time that I went, I went with Dan, and you were there. I don't know what it was.

I think it was ATX in Texas, or in Austin, wasn't it? No, this was at a comic book store. Signing, yeah, I remember that. It was like the kid robot release of like this cool sculpture thing, yeah. Dude. That was wild. I had never seen that before.

Yeah. And I have only experienced that level of intensity, an intense kind of silence, an intense murmuring silence in religious places. That was so, I was so drunk. I had to drink, I was like, I need to drink. I get so nervous. I was pasted, man, I was high.

Yeah, yeah. But it was, but that, it was, it's, yeah. It was like a religion. It was like being, you guys were like priests. These people were gathering around you, and they were silently waiting for you to say anything. Yeah. And they were cherishing these icons

in a really intense way. It's weird and it's hard for me to appreciate it. You know what I mean? Because I'm almost like, I'll never not be this way, where I'm just, I'm like, I'm just a fucking, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's crazy to see, but I try to just bring it down to like, hey, look, like if I meet somebody,

or like if I'm at a convention or whatever, I do my fucking best to try to just bring it back down. Like, look, we're both, I don't know when every situation is different, but it's like, I'm, I'm just a, I'm just a person. Yeah, man. And I got really lucky. And like, yeah, like you are perceiving me on this pedestal,

but honestly, I'm just like you. And you know, just, let's just, let's just be, let's just be people and, and, and hang out. But when you're doing these crazy signings like that, there's no time to sort of, you know, have those moments with everybody. It's kind of just this, this sort of water wheel of people coming and very surreal.

And it's, it's, it definitely, like some people will, that's just fuel, like, like the, the adoration and the, the compliments and it just fills their cup, you know, but for me, it's, it doesn't do anything for me. It's, I, I, I don't, I don't take it for granted. And I don't, I don't look at it, look down upon it. I'm, I'm, I'm just kind of like, I'm almost outside of it. It feels like you sense the, the illusory nature of it.

Like you get this feeling of like, whatever this particular dance or game is. Yeah. The intensity with which people are playing. I'm thinking, you know, in 10 years, you're going to be, you're, you know, you'll, you'll probably still have fond memories of the show and, and, and, and an, and an appreciation of me and Dan,

but you'll be fanatical about some other thing, right? And it's like, so, or, you know, getting more morose. It's like, we're all going to die. So let's have a, I mean, that's a shitty way to look at it. But, but, well, I don't know. I, I, I, I'm trying not to think about life. I'm trying to be more in the moment and enjoy existing, but and not be so like, I'm going to die.

Who gives a shit? Oh, nihilistic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to be less nihilistic, but, but, but, but no, like, yeah, I, I, it's, it's interesting. I really do appreciate the, I appreciate the connection that people have. I mean, honestly, like, you know, it's weird

cause that was never really the plant. I, I, it was an unplanned, you know, like, if I could, I would take this conversation we're having and I would have you be the voice of one of those Mayan kids and this, as he's talking, is there taking him to the top of the pyramid and stab him with a fucking dagger? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. He's just, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cause it's- It's sort of just, yeah. Cause you know, it's like, there's this, I think there's a thing built into us that like, when that level of intensity and adoration is- That's a great way to contextualize what- Yeah, I mean, cause it's, it's, it's scary

because like they, they can turn on you. Sure. You know, what is that great, there's that great song by Loudon Wayne Wright, Saw Your Name In The Paper, and how does it go? It's like- I don't know that band, but like- Oh, dude, it's a, Rufus Wayne Wright's dad.

He's an amazing folk singer, but the lyrics are- I don't know that band. The band. It's like, it's like, I love, I love Mazzy Star. She's cute. Great band. It's like, no, wait, anyway, sorry. It goes, the line goes like,

take the money, take the love, take all the people give, the people they are dying, and somehow you help them live. It goes, Jesus, but the crushing lyric is like, the people will destroy you. That love will turn to hate, but right now you must scratch it, that itch that's grown so great. Saw your name in the paper.

Saw your name- That's a great lyric. It's a great lyric, and it's a little dire if you ask me, but it's also, there is that- It's true kind of though. When I was at this thing and I was high as a kite, so my senses are off a little bit, the feeling was weird, man.

It reminded me of when I've been at like occult rituals. I don't mean like it's literally that, but I mean like there was a certain type of thickness in the air that would make me, if I were in your shoes, a little unnerved by it. That's why I, you know, a couple of shots before, and just sip vodka or whatever during, but I mean, yeah, but it's also,

like I don't want that to come off like, I need to do that to deal with these people or something, because there is a, I'm always just humbled and blown away, and our fan base is incredibly diverse, and I feel like, you know, you hear a lot of stuff, like Rick and Morty fans, you know, the meme of like, oh, they're all fucking douche-bat or whatever. Is that real?

Well, I don't know if it is. I've seen whispers of it here and there, and like, you know, there's memes where it's like, oh, you have to be really smart to enjoy the show, you know, stuff like that, but like, I've met a ton of fans, and I've done a couple of like conventions, just meeting fans, and I've not come across

a single shitty person, like every, and insane diversity, not in just gender, ethnicity, age, I mean, it's like all over the place. You've made the funniest show ever. It's so good. Dan and I did. Dan, of course. Yes, when I say you, I assume you have people,

I know you guys made the show. We'll just say for the record, if we also meet Dan. And the sum total of the crew and everything, it's like, to me, it's like, they're really like, the beautiful thing about the internet, the hyper-connectivity that we experience is so incredible. And the writers and the bubble bubble, everybody. The sum total of all nature,

the fucking cosmic thing that blew out, time and space to form the atoms, the spinning. The atoms that are in our, yeah. The quasar. The space dust that were made up. The space butterfly, all of it that came together to make this, it's wonderful. But to me, what inevitably ends up happening is this like, you know, some croaking toad

has to blow out insults anytime anything gets to a certain, it's just a statistical probability. That's right. That once you get to a certain place, there's gonna be a croaking toad who's got some, he's gonna come roblin' out of his swamp. The fans, I guess y'all think you're so smart, don't you? It's like, this is an inevitability.

It's a poisoner, essentially. Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. A shit-disturber. But like, every time I've watched Rick and Morty, I just laugh my ass off and I just, everyone, it's good, you made something great. Yeah, we definitely try to have fun. I mean, so, it's funny because, you know,

art, making things, like just creating something, I feel zero inhibitions. I feel zero fear. I'm not worried what people are gonna think. I don't care if people are gonna hate it. It's very weird, because that's incomplete opposition to a lot of other shit in my head. When it comes to, so like for the video game,

I have a video game coming out called Trover Saves the Universe. Didn't it just come out? I saw it on PlayStation. You can pre-order it right now. But it hits May 31st on PS4 and then June 4th on PC. And it's both VR and traditional. You could play it either way, blah, blah, blah.

That's great. I wish they would do that more. More, me too, man. I mean, well, I can get into how that happened because it was a happy accident, but the point is like making that game, you know, I was just like, you know, obviously spend a lot of time breaking the story.

Like that's important. You want a decent structural narrative to follow. But like, once we got into each level, we break the level, you know, narratively, and make sure that plugs into the larger structure of the story, of the full story. But then it was like, let's just have fucking, let's just go nuts.

So like, I would just drink and like, we'd have our level master planner so we'd know all the lines we needed to get. I mean, thousands and thousands of dots. I mean, just crazy. And so what we learned, the best process was just like, okay, what do I got to do next? What's the next thing?

Oh, this is the part where Trover, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, got it. And then I just fucking riff and make up shit and I'm just drinking and having fun. What a joy. And it was so fun and it was so, and the end result ultimately, like if there were spots,

if there were days that were bad days that, you know, it was like, I wasn't really in the best, I wasn't in the zone or I wasn't feeling the best, we would just chuck it out and do it again. And then there's days where it's like, just shit, I could never, ever come up with sitting at a computer typing, ever. Just shit that just came out of my mouth

that's so fucking funny and ridiculous. And just the end result is this game. Where it just feels so different than other games because most games don't, the studios don't function that way. Like they tend to sort of- Fuck no. The scripts are very tight.

And then you- And let somebody ramble on the mic. Never, never. You mentioned a master plan, level master planner. Is that an actual title? Yeah, yeah. What is that? It's just this fucking endless document

that has every single line of the game. Every thing we would need for dialogue. Every- Oh my God. We have like over 20 hours of dialogue in this game. Like if you just sit and hang out with characters in VR or just on your TV, they'll have full fucking crazy conversations

that are hilarious. Well, dude, I mean, this was a, you know, you released Accounting. Oh yeah, yeah, with William Pugh, the crows, crows, crows guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's felt like it had a lot of that to it. Yeah.

And that adds so- This is like times, I mean, Accounting's short. This game's like, this'll take about six to eight hours. Probably closer eight hours to just play the game. But if you want to hang out, you can- That's it. It's crazy. Yeah, you can be in there for a while.

But the point I was trying to make is in the art, I'm very free and stuff. Yeah. But I found myself in the last like year and a half, maybe a little more completely silenced on social media, on like, I don't want to make a joke anymore. I don't want to say my opinion anymore. You're scared.

I don't even want to look at the, I'll post a thing, but it's always, whenever I post on social, I'm kind of mostly on Instagram now. I kind of got the fuck away from Twitter. I still have it and I look at it occasionally. But like, Twitter scares me. Harmon was saying something interesting

because we were talking about this. And he's like, I think, if you want to say something on there, create something. Like he does these little music videos, if you've seen them, they're really great. He did one for my birthday. It was fucking incredible. Yeah, yeah.

That meant a lot to me that he did that. I was like, that was so fucking sweet of him. But like, he's like, if you create something, even if there's something in there that could potentially outrage people, it's art and it's potentially something that most people can't do. So they're not going to see it through the same lens

as me typing a joke, tweeting it out, that some people might be outraged over or not understand the context of it being a joke. Hey, remember when jokes were, we all sort of had the social agreement that jokes were jokes, remember that? Remember when they were in the frame of, hey, this is a joke, doesn't mean

I'm going to play this out in my life, doesn't mean that this is the content of my character, I just have a dark sense of humor and here's a joke. Nowadays, you can't do that at all. So it's like, I've been effectively like, all right, I'm just, I just feel, not that I need to fucking spout my little bullshit through a little digital bullhorn,

but I definitely don't feel comfortable, like an ideal will come into my head or a thought and I'm just like, oh, I should, no, wait, no, never mind. I'm not going to say shit. Well, because the idea was like, there was a feeling that was more like a kind of like playground or something where we're just like

playing games and we're like fucking around, man. Like it's just like we're making stuff. Oh, look, there's mud, let's run over here. Oh shit, Frank fell on his skin, his knee. Oh hell, let's go over here, climb that wall. What's that? It was fun, nothing meant anything, it was a game. There wasn't a sense of like, if I make this joke,

it is an indication that I am connected to a dark cobble of evil humans and I'm basically like a swamp bubble coming out of like some infinite hive of doom people. I was just saying some shit that in the moment seemed funny. Also, I was kind of hammered when I said it and it seemed funny then, but none of it, I promise you,

I'm not killing, there's no fucking like hostile, you know, situation under my house where I'm like getting to tourists and like flaying them. It was just a joke, but now these days have changed a little bit and what's really fucked up about it is that when you start like hearing about these Russian bot or troll farms. Oh yeah, dude, and then you don't know what's real

and what's fake and that asshole that said the thing that bummed you out, is that just somebody being paid by a, it's crazy. Yeah, so there's the, that's where kind of where we've hit this like, I think, hopefully a point right now, a wobbly point in our interconnectivity through technology. We just have to deal with the fact that the immune system of the technology

isn't strong enough to withstand outside influences. So basically like, it's like having a house, your Twitter account or whatever the account is, it's like having a house with a billion doors and you can't shut all the doors and you don't, and there's no, And some of them don't even have actual doors, they're just openings.

You know what I mean? Just like big, beautiful arches. Yeah, man. Like the Flintstones house, remember that? They just had holes for windows. Pretty sure they did. It's a real mess, man, because if your fucking house has all those holes in it,

you're gonna get the shit pummeled out of you. The mosquitoes are gonna be coming in. The robot, but it's literally like, what's so funny about it is that, you know, in the, like the model of the thing or the way we're modeling it right now, which is, it's not gonna be like this for a while. I mean, this is like when people used to have,

my grandmother would tell me her phone number was like eight or whatever. It went on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. Like her phone number was something like eight, one, four, something or you'd pick up the phone and an operator would answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me talk to Linda on four, nine flower lane.

Hold on, and she'd plug a thing in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was what it used to be. And that's where we're at now with technology. It's just the differences. So we're wide open basically. And what that means is like, if you have a business, theoretically, whatever it may be,

and you have a competitor, that competitor could literally manufacture fake things and swarm your ass and make you seem like a monster. It's scary. It's temporarily scary. And even just being a public figure, which I never, I always kind of said, I was like, I always like animations my jam

because you can make stuff and no one really knows what you look like or, and then when the show started to take off, it's still kind of that. I mean, it's still pretty great because I don't get recognized a ton. It happens more than I ever thought it would, but it's also because I went,

I did Ethan, you know, H3, H3, they're like YouTube, they're friends of mine, but they have a YouTube, big YouTube channel. He asked me, he's like, hey, we're starting a podcast, will you be our first guest? And I'm like, absolutely, yeah, I'd love to do that. And then, and then like, a week later,

he's like, yeah, so we got the couch and like, oh man, the set looks really great. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like what set? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, oh yeah, no, no, like it's gonna be great. I'm like, wait, is this a, is there cameras there? Oh, fuck, yeah, anyway.

So I was like, oh man, but I already... The old video podcast trap. Let me tell you, man, that's the worst when you go stumbling in, there's a fucking green screen, 18 cameras, lights everywhere. You're looking like you just crawled out of bed. You're like, wait, what? I thought you said podcast.

No, that sucks, but I mean, not that their show sucks, but not being prepared for it as a fucking tour. Well, I at least was, I had enough, I mean, I found out, you know, a few weeks before, like I found out, but when I first said, yeah, I was like, but I was just like, oh man, I've been able to kind of, you know, have this amazing best of both worlds

where it's like, I've got the creative, I've got a show, it's exciting, and it's like, but I also have this certain level of anonymity, like all these amazing voice actors, like Maurice LaMarche, and I mean, even to a certain extent, like Phil Hendry, and like, I mean, all these guys, they get recognized, but like, by and large,

they can kind of just walk through the raindrops, they can go shopping at Ralph's, they can, you know, and they don't have to even think about it, they can just be normal, you know? I can't imagine being like a really famous celebrity, like an actor, you know, and how that would affect your, for me, it would be like cripple, it would just fuck me all up,

but I would just become more and more like reclusive. Paranoid, reclusive, gates within gates within gates? I think so, I think so, I don't know. Lonely? I think so, I think about it, I'm like, if, you know, and it'll never happen for me, but it's, which is good, you know, but it's like, yeah, it's like, and I should clarify,

anyone who has ever recognized me and come up to me, knock on fucking wood, has been just the sweetest, nicest people, I've never had an asshole ever approach me and be a dick. I hear, what do you know what I hear from you, man? I hear like, you want to put out there, I hope I don't sound like I'm complaining, I'm very grateful for my success,

and I love the fact that people love what I'm making. It's just interesting for me, because I'm still, I hope I'm never anything other than outside of it, looking into it, and kind of going, that's weird, this is all weird. You don't want to lose that stance, man, because when you lose that stance, what's, there's nothing unique anymore.

No fucking way, yeah. You were that, you were the kid with the freckles, you were the insecure person, and now you're getting this rare access to a kind of experience that I'm sure many people on the planet are curious to say the least about, like, what would that be like? And so I think there's something really beautiful

about the way you're sort of reporting in from the outside, so to speak. Because it's like, we want to hear it, and because it's something you like, you think about peaks, you know, in Western society, peaks, and whether you like it or not, you guys are on a peak,

and when we are all like, what's it like up there? And to hear, it's a little scary, and actually I still hate myself, he still hates himself, what did he say? He hates Hillary Clinton? What's his fucking problem? Burn his house down, burn his house down. Yeah, but that, so to me, it's like the,

also as I'm listening to you talk, it makes me think of this thing I read, which is that to put someone on a pedestal is an aggression. So if you want to like, no matter what, if you find yourself in the presence of a person, even if you have deep respect for them, but you're elevating them to a place above where you're at, or where your mom is at,

or your dad is at, or your family's at, not only are you being aggressive to yourself, you're being aggressive to them, because essentially it's like an non-consensual game of make-believe, which is, you know, because you're the person who keeps getting pedestalized, so to speak, that though you're brilliant,

and your mind is like outflowing beautiful things into the world, you have this sense of like, guys, I don't know why it's happening, or what's happening, but I'm literally just like you. I got lucky, something happened, no difference. I got lucky, something happened, something flows out of me sometimes,

and I love it, but I'm just like you. But they're like, no, you're not. I want to touch your feet. Let me worship you, please, and that is an aggression. It's non-consensual, and it's like. It's really interesting to hear the idea of putting someone on a pedestal is a non-consensual, what did you say exactly?

It's an aggression, it's a non-consensual game of make-believe. Make-believe, a non-consensual game of make-believe, that's fucking really interesting. And you literally find yourself in the shit position of having to be like, now you have to be like, number one, I'm not doing false modesty. I'm not doing false humility.

I'm literally telling you, whatever the thing is, you like what I made, this isn't me. That's not me, it's a collaborative effort. You know what I really do love about all of the success, though, is I've gotten to meet so many fucking interesting, amazing people that I would have never met, ever, ever. And not just famous people and stuff,

but just people, just random people that I would have never met in a million years that are just fucking amazing, or have, I don't know, they're struggling through something and not to sound like I'm some fucking Mother Teresa, but it's nice to try to help them. I sent a friend, literally, four really long, things from your podcast, and then a couple of appearances

that you were on Joe Rogan's podcast, talking about depression, talking about just really powerful shit that I sent to someone who I met recently, that I was like, I really think this is gonna help you. Like, significantly, you really, really need to listen to this, cause like, this person is very much depressed and very much in that place of, like, I can't even, you know, can't even muster the energy to go,

like, even just walk around the block level, and I'm like, just listen to this stuff, cause it's really powerful. Glue trap, I call that the glue trap, where it can be the mice get on the glue trap. No, I think you literally say it, and one of the things I sent, that you make that analogy. And yeah, it's, that kind of stuff is really, really awesome

to be able to sort of meet people, get to know them, talk to them, like, and people are very, I'm a Pisces, not that I'm some astrology lunatic, but I'm very kind of open and, I like to listen, and I'm very empathic, and like, when I meet somebody, if we're hanging out or whatever, like, I wanna know, and people tend to open up to me, and then, I don't know, it's interesting,

and then I'm like, I wanna try to like help, I wanna like fix people. Yeah man, I don't know, like, yeah, yeah. You have a lot of compassion. I think it's a thing that I've been missing in my life for a while, that part of things, and I'm just kind of recently getting back into that, of the meeting new people, and like, I don't know,

that kind of stuff will help fill my empty cup, yeah, yeah. Because that's the intent, man. This is what, I'm just learning about this right now. It's like, my, this guy said meditation with us, he, he like kind, he didn't, he doesn't know, they're all so sweet, like saying that they come down on you, and he's not the way to put it, but like, we were talking, and I was like, I don't have intention.

Well, you know, I just do stuff, and there's not really any intention behind it, I just kind of, you know, do it, you know, without intention. I don't know why I was afraid of intention. But I remember he's, he didn't, I don't remember exactly what he said, but he really like, in the way only someone who like, is like, teaching you,

he really like, got me, with his response, was just, I think something on the lines, if that is such horseshit, it's like, you're just saying that, you don't mean, of course you have intention, and it's like, when you meditate, one of the ideas is you, before you meditate, you create an intent, and the intent is, I hope this in some way helps everybody,

and then when you're done meditating, you dedicate the merit of the practice, and they have various versions of this prayer, which is like, something along the lines of like, may all sentient beings be happy, may they have food in their stomach, may they no longer suffer, and so this is called, I just learned this word,

so I'm glad you're bringing this up, Bodhichitta is what it's called, and it's, as I understand it, it's the beginning of like, a rising sun in your heart, and it's the sun that wants to help. It's like the thing inside of you that's like, wants to help people, and it is the only thing that matters.

Everything else is literally irrelevant, which is why it's such a fucking pain in the ass to be selfish, man, it's like, how? I mean, I'm super selfish in other ways, so, you know what I mean? Like, there's like, yeah, there's no doubt about that. No dude, listen, this is the, as someone who suffers from depression,

fairly regularly, and I have to be very careful about it, I have warning signs, I know like, the bed's not made, there's shit on the floor, I'm not exercising, it's like, uh-oh, watch out man, cause you're gonna get, you gotta go outside, you gotta go pee around people, you're gonna, anyway, I know that one of the, and I don't wanna say like, for those of you out there

who are depressed, I am not trying to produce a, it's your fault thing, but from my own anecdotal evidence, I will say, that something that seems to be present in my depression is an abnormal fixation on myself in the negative. So it's like, and so, which is literally selfishness, but it's not even like the good kind of selfishness where you're like, give me that, that's my motherfucker,

ooh, I need to chill, it's literally selfishness, it's where I'm like, you fucking piece of shit, you fuck. It's almost kind of, I guess a form of narcissism too, right? Reverse narcissism? Yeah, like, yeah, is there a term for that? Like, yeah, that's crazy. Not loving yourself, but being obsessed

and absorbed in hating elements of your identity, being hyper-compressed, basically to me what it is, this is like, one of the concepts with compassion is like, compassion can't happen without space. So you need space to put, so like, in other words, like right now we're in this big fucking space chatting with each other, it's awesome, but you and I were in like a little metal box right now,

shoved together with these microphones and we're starting to get hot, we'd start getting a little annoyed with each other, like, if I moved my, you know, especially if we were in this box for like, I don't know, 100 years. Six, okay, 100. Can you imagine every little movement

would start fucking sucking, it would be agonizing, you would hate every hair of my beard, you would hate every exhalation of my stinky breath, it would all be a nightmare thing, but if we then expand the size of that box to the size of the entire planet, then it's great, man, we can be really good friends. So similarly, we're jammed into a box,

but the box is ourselves. Our bodies are meat husks, that's crazy. So we're super hyper compressed into our identity, right? And so, so this is- These meat husks of ours, huh? Meat boxes. Man, what do you think of that meat husk over there, huh? Pretty, yeah, look at that meat husk.

Look at that meat husk. What a beautiful meat husk, my dear. I wanna, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. I wanna suck all your meat husks. Take that meat husk home, but I'll leave the soul here if you don't mind. I wanna wear your meat husk on your back.

Oh my God, imagine if that was a kink, like you're just into meat husks. Well, it is a kink, I mean, people love wearing other people's kink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of serial killers and monsters out there, but, or I guess they're, I feel like there used to be more serial killers back in the 70s, 80s, 60s.

There was like a- They're more prolific. There was a creativity boom when it came to like- And so you was like, ooh, this speaks to me. I need a hook if you're gonna kill a bunch of people. Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna be the zodiac one. Yeah. And now I'm gonna be the one

that just fucking gets away with it and breaks it, like Ted Bundy just sneaks out- The fucking dogs talks to you. Yeah, and then Bundy really- Bundy just like fucking, he, that guy, boy, oh boy, he's like trying to catch a fish with your hands. He just kept running away, flipping out the window. He had a demon in him.

He was possessed by a demon. He's full of shit. Are you talking about, cause like at the end, he was like, the stuff about him being all religious and stuff. No, he like had a, I think it's called a like a rush kasha or something. Oh, he literally-

Oh man. He had a demon got in him, cause he would talk about it. He's like, I had to get super hammered. Do you believe in that kind of stuff? Fuck yeah. You do, see, I, well, you know what? I don't, I don't not believe in anything. I'm not like some, I know that's not true kind of person.

I'm very much like, I don't know anything. I don't know what anything is. Well, obviously there's like, you know, proven scientific and medical and like, you know, historic, well, mostly historical information that can be proven, you know? But then there's stuff that's like, we just don't know, man. We don't fucking know anything.

That's right. And then there's, there's human issues that we just don't know. Like, did that happen? Did that person do that thing? We don't know. There's evidence. And then the more evidence or the more it's like,

okay, no, they did that thing. Or no, they definitely didn't. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. But like, so I tend to stay in the kind of agnostic kind of center. Oh, that's a good place to hang out, yeah. Well, but I'm incredibly open to all kinds of stuff.

I just don't want to believe that shit because yeah, like, I don't know. Maintain agnosticism. Are you'll embarrass yourself? I hang out there. You know, I like, in other words, when I say, fuck yeah, believe in demons, I don't mean like, I permanently believe in demons.

Or I don't even mean like, in 10 minutes, I think there's gonna. Yeah. It's a thought experiment. Sometimes when I'm looking at a person like Ted Bundy, for example, and I think, well, he's a sociopathic narcissist or whatever the fuck. Okay, that's okay.

But really when I'm looking at him and I'm like, that dude basically alien style, like burrowed through a slat. Wormed his way out a window and then ran into the fucking mountains and said it was the best time in his life. And then managed to skip across the country and kill a bunch more people.

That's a demon. Yeah, yeah. That's to me it works. Did you say that? That's a demon. Yeah, it's a demon riding him around. No, you're right, you're right. That's not normal.

But you know, nowadays it's like, what do you, there's just no, nobody's playing the game anymore. There's too many cameras maybe. DNA evidence too good. Forensic stuff too powerful. Like how, I'm trying to figure out why are there not as many,

I'm not asking for them. That's terrible, but. They're out there. I was thinking about it and I'm like, man, there used to be like real creepy fucking weirdos that just would go on these horrible murder spree. Back in the good old days. When I was your age, we had colorful serial killers.

Now you just get stranglers. Who gives a fuck about some boring old strangler. Now there's just mass shootings. Yeah, yeah. They all happen at once. Yeah, yeah. Not these fun long drawn out mysteries. Who's doing this?

And everyone's afraid and locking their windows and girls with brown hair are like, stay indoors girls. There's a murderer on the loose on the east, on the west coast. Yeah man, I wore butterfly wings. Dude, I wore butterfly wings and a cape. The good old days. I fucking figured out a way to come sign eyes brother.

Now what are you doing? You're a strangler. It's boring. Yeah. Yeah, I think that like, we have entered into a very, unfortunately, an age of anesthetized horror it seems like. It's like not only is the mechanism to show us

this shit being like anesthetized, like the saddest thing is like those kids who got the Parkland kids. They're apparently trying to make it so that they have to upload the videos of the shootings. The next one that happens. They're signing things that says show my body.

Look at this. Look and look. Face this. Face this. Yeah, I think we need that. I mean, it's, I personally, yeah, fuck man. I mean, I can't watch that shit,

but I already get it. Like I'm already like, look that kind of, like I'm already there. I'm not the person that needs to see it. You know what I mean? There are people I think that do need to see that shit and for it to really sink in. Like this is happening all over the place.

It's just a fucking crazy phenomenon. Like, I don't know. I don't know how the fuck or why or I don't know what is causing it. It's just mental health issues that we're not handling in the country. I have no idea, but I do know that the idea that those kids have, which is brilliant,

can be applied subjectively because it's like, this is the shit I'm learning right now. I think everyone should just have to take psilocybin or acid, everyone. I think it like, as soon as you turn, whatever age you wanna put on it, 21, you have to just sit down with a shaman and just fucking take a fuck ton of it

and just go through a spiritual journey, come out the other side and you will have more empathy for humanity. You'll have more- Connection and nature. You'll have a deeper understanding of what you are and that this whole thing is a big fuck, like you're gonna die.

And all this like, grindy, materialistic motivations, I think kind of melt away a little bit. I mean, sure, you're still gonna have the people like me that buy toys and whatever, but the sort of like, I need to make a trillion fucking dollars that you can never spend it ever.

I mean, not, I don't know, or the political, I'm gonna be a politician that has a very like, you know, anti-people, for lack of a better- Anti-people. Anti-people perspective. Earlier you were saying like,

I don't wanna talk about, the whole death thing and the nihilism thing. And there was a time in my life when I used to really like, feel like death was a bad thing. And I just don't feel that anymore. Yeah. And I don't mean that like, edge lordy,

I don't feel that anymore. I mean like, I think that it's a very beautiful, and a beautiful, beautiful thing that happens to all of us. And that the, in the way that those kids are like, oh, I want you to show the picture of my dead body. I think like, there's something really beautiful if you have the courage to do it,

to turn your eyes and face your own mortality. And not just your own mortality in the sense of like the long-term thing, which is like, who's gonna, everyone has this crazy ass fantasy, which is they're gonna deathbed fantasy. Like all these people have this deathbed fantasy.

They have this crazy idea that they're gonna be laying in their deathbed, maybe some quilts, the family around, some dogs here and there. And they're gonna be like, I love you, dad, I love you, goodbye. It doesn't work like that. Your fucking mind breaks.

You start stammering, you're spinning through the past into the future, you fall asleep most of the time. Maybe you wake up for a second to like say some inarticulate thing. There's a postman up in there. We gotta get George Clooney down to this Amazon, you fall asleep.

That's what death looks like, right? And so what happens is people create this absolute fantasy about the way they're gonna fucking die, which is like, well, I have time because eventually I'm gonna just calm it down and be like, okay, now I'm gonna love life. But it's like, shut the fuck up. Here's what's gonna happen.

You're gonna wake up a little confused one morning, you're gonna go to take a piss and then you're gonna come to you and you're gonna be in the hospital. There's gonna be someone looking at you talking, but you won't know what they're saying. Their mouth is gonna be like, blah, blah, blah, and you'll fall back asleep.

Then you're gonna wake up again. There'll be maybe some tubes on you. You'll hear your heart go boom, they'll be like, I can't really fucking breathe. Is this a dream? God, that's how it happens. And also, when you sort of create this fantasy of the way that you're gonna die,

or you do this trust fund bullshit with your years, oh, I've got 20, 10, whatever you think you have. Fuck that. You got nothing, man. And also, you have no past. That's the other important thing. Your past has been annihilated. Everything before this moment is absolutely gone

and everything after this doesn't exist yet. So all there is is this place here. It's so fucking weird. Well, fourth dimensional beings would disagree, but a third dimensional beings, for sure, are just slices of right now, literally right now, right now, all the time. You mean the fourth dimensional beings who like see us

as these kinds of meat snakes coiling through time? Yeah, the long, like from a little baby all the way to the fucking decrepit. But before the baby, the spartan, yeah, the spitting out. And even before, I guess, how far back does it go? It goes all the way back to the big bang, I guess. I guess, yeah, they're fucking fourth dimensional,

badass fucking people or characters. Well, yeah, yeah, so do you spend much time thinking about that kind of stuff? It seems like you do. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you study chaos magic and stuff like that. I don't know, maybe, I don't know. Sometimes wraps up around this idea

of like one of the aspects of it is agnosticism. So it's like Robert Anton Wilson would talk about it, just like maintaining the spirit of like, I'm going to manifest a ritual right now to contact one of these fourth dimensional beings, but I'm not gonna do it like I believe it. I'm just gonna do it to see what happens. So in a less absolutely insane,

yet still insane way of saying it would be, when you see the poems in the beginning of some of the ancient Greek writing that's the invocation to the muse, that's literally like a prayer to a fourth dimensional being that come through me so that I can manifest your form into this dimension. Let me be, or another way to put it would be,

I want to be a landing strip for UFOs that are flying out of the fourth dimension in the form of inspiration and coming through me in populating this dimension with some creativity, civilization. I feel that way when I, I feel like I'm tapping into that when I get really high, just weed, like which I don't really ever do

because I have to suffer about an hour and a half of fucking existential panic, like pure legitimate panic attack. Whoa. And then once that subsides, it's just insane, like just ideas, like I'm channeling something, it's insanity. All these ideas are just coming,

and I haven't done it in a long time, but real quick, I want to get back to the idea of the thing you said about every moment before this is gone, right? So do you ever think that two things, one, because of that fact, that everything preceding the current moment could potentially be changed, right?

On a mass scale. What I mean by that is, you know the Mandela fact, right? Yeah, sure. Not literally that, but the idea that like, that is sort of a sign or a, I think a lot of those are bullshit, it's just a bunch of us not weed. Oh, I didn't pay that close attention, you know,

but some of it may be, but the idea being that like, let's say we're in a simulation, and the people running the simulation, you smell that? Skunk. Getting high, dude. Yeah, man. No, no, no, no, is that a skunk or is somebody smoking weed?

That's, that means you live in California. Okay, great. So anyway, the, like imagine, you know, somebody decided to change, pause the simulation right now, and then delete me or delete, and not just like, I'm disappear, and you're all of a sudden the mic drops, and you're like, where'd you go?

It's like, no, no, no, I'm erased from everyone's mind. Any deeds, any things I've done are erased. You're not sitting here with me, you're sitting here with someone else, cause I didn't come and you may be, and nobody knows I existed, right? Like that. And it's, because it's all behind us.

It's all, sure. And so the idea of like, just like, if we were in a simulation, that's such a, okay, now, so take that concept, right? The ability, that sort of, you know, the potential for things to just have been retroactively changed to the point where there's an entire mass reboot,

and everyone, their minds are wiped of the thing, that thing doesn't exist, and now we still have, you know, Hidden Treasure cereal on the shelf, whatever stupid fucking difference, which is a great cereal, by the way, look it up. But, you know, it's delicious, but probably horrible for you, though, is it 90's cereal.

But anyways, now, the idea that the way you, the things you do, the choices you make, so going into the future, that that could potentially change, like slipping into different multiverses. Like if I were to, like right now, like I'm like exercising, I'm like just to claw myself out of this depression

that I've been in, I'm like exercising, I'm eating healthy, I'm not so much dieting, as I am like, okay, no sugar, I cut sugar out completely, which is the first time in my life I've ever done that. Wow, how long? I'm two weeks and a couple days in. Good fucking Lord, good job, man.

It's crazy, I've never done it before, ever, but I cut it all out, and then I'm eating, you know, it's crazy, like you start to like actually, like spinach with some, like saute spinach with some coconut oil, and a little bit of salt and pepper, and you're like, that shit would make me fucking wanna puke, and now I'm like,

no, it's fucking good, it actually tastes good, right? Wow. And that's after two or two weeks and three days. Did you get sick? Did you have any like withdrawals or anything? Oh yeah, depression, I mean my, like worsened, like energy, I mean, sugar addiction is fucking, I don't think people realize how powerful withdrawal,

but yeah, it was really hard, but I feel good now, I don't even really crave it, more crave carbs than anything, which is I also cut out the carbs, but I had dreams last night that I was just like, fuck it, and I was just eating, and I woke up and I'm like, thank God, that was a dream, I was just eating all this shit,

but anyways, the point is like, if there's a version of me right now that's still depressed, still eating shit, still, I wouldn't be here, I'd be like, ah, Duncan, I can't, like, you know, I'm sorry, either make up an excuse, or whatever it is, but then there's this version that's what I'm manifesting, which is like,

I'm, no, fuck that, I'm gonna do all this, and then what's interesting about that is it literally is fracturing the multiverse in different directions for the future, so the past can be rebooted if we're in a simulation, if we're in a simulation, which I think we might be, anytime, and then the future can be completely changed based off of your own choices day to day,

and what you decide to do, and it could be anything from health stuff, or it could be like, fuck it, I'm gonna go do open mic standup right now, even though I suck, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I mean, the dark horrible shit is like these people that are going, I don't wanna encourage any bad shit,

but like, there's these people that are doing these horrible things to people, you know, on a mass scale, and it's like, that's fragmenting and changing the future in negative ways, you know what I mean? Absolutely, well, it's like, it's kind of like, there's a lot of cool ways to think about it, it's fun to imagine it as a form of locomotion, you can imagine that your identity is a spaceship

traveling through the multiverse, and by creating a consistent, doing anything consistently over time is similar to like finding some coordinates and staying on that path, and the more you do that. And shifting more and more into that version of the multiverse, and like settling into it, and then what potentially changes around you,

are you actually, are you actually crossing over? You know, is the world gonna get better? If you make better choices and you better yourself, are you gonna actually click over into another version of reality, another multiverse that's better, where people start to get more sane and people start to love each other more, and like, I don't know, it's an interesting thing, man.

Well, it's sort of like, there's this like, in Buddhism there's the wheel of life, and the wheel of life has the hell of the hungry ghost, hell, the animal realm, human realm, realm of the jealous gods, and realm of the gods. And so, this represents all the potential, like literal, like incarnations, but the other idea of it is it's actually,

this is the cycle of person's life. So you can sort of, I know that I have experienced hell in this world. Me too, yeah, yeah. And in the hell that I've experienced, I've also experienced paradise on the very same stretch of the 101. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I've been in like a fucking Jacob's Ladder hell, where I look around and it is like demons in cars, and the signs are all weird and warped and shit, and like everything's bad, like real bad, right? Yes, yes, yes. I've been on the same stretch of fucking highway, and it's like, whoa, this is amazing. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Beautiful, but not only that, it's like the thing you're talking about is really quite interesting in the sense that the journey you're talking about is sort of like the journey out of one particular dimension into another, and yet it's the same dimension, except it's completely different. And what starts happening when you start taking that journey

is you start running into fellow travelers. Oh, yes. I mean, other people who are making a similar kind of pilgrimage, and then when you run into those people, you're kind of like the way we're talking about it, except we're gonna blast it out to everybody, and they're like, you're out of their minds!

But what happens is the way it works is you're kind of running to be like, hey, have you seen Jacob's Ladder, by the way? When I was a kid, and I was just so... You gotta watch it again. I need to watch it again, I was too young. I think I was like, what in the fuck is going on? I need to watch it again.

But it's like Jacob's Ladder, it's like his spine, but it represents the transition from the earth realm into paradise, the potential for going into orbit. Basically, like he's conferring with other people in this kind of strange bardo status that's called, and they're all like, did we die? What is happening here? Are we dead?

And it's like, what ends up happening is you start running into people in a very similar kind of conversation that starts happening, just like, hey, are we... Is this real? Is this a simulation, right? It's not, is this... What's happening here?

Are you experiencing this too? And then what's beautiful about it is you start running into people who actually, if you really want to hear some crazy ass shit, who come back into this particular universe to find people who are ready to make the trip. And they're like, hey, okay, check it out. They're like a strider in Lord of the Rings,

you know, the weird paths and the byways and stuff. And then the next, and I don't mean like, literally, these beings kind of, usually if they do show up, they don't look like the way you'd expect them to, and they don't stick around that long. Because their attitude is really one of like, hey, listen, I can show you there's a path here, but you're gonna have to do the path.

Cause that's the thing, a lot of people don't want to do it. And a lot of times people will do the, start transitioning universes, so to speak, and it'll start experiencing the illumination, and suddenly everything seems brighter, lighter, the people you're hanging out with are more loving, people are really like sweet, people start giving you stuff more,

you start giving them stuff more, synchronicities increase, you start making better decisions, you look in the mirror, your body is changed. And then you do get into that weird place, which I always get worried about, cause I'm like, is this solipsism, where you're watching the news and suddenly it's like,

well, it looks like we might've found life on Mars. And then you're like, wait, what the fuck? Life on Mars. And then suddenly, and then you start wondering like, wait, if I were to maintain this practice, would suddenly it just be like, where like civilization would literally split in half? I met someone who told me that,

she was like, said with great confidence. She's like, well, right now we're on the part of a spaceship that's undocking from the other civilization. She's like the civilization that with, with like Trump and all the autocrats and all that shit. She's like, that, that, she said it was such confidence. It was so awesome. They just turned into this hardcore

technological civilization. But the thing that we're on right now, we're about to completely split away from them. And she said like the bridge connecting the two dimensions is starting to go like shake and break. And like, which is why it's a good time to have a great practice. And to buy Bitcoin.

No, I'm just kidding. Definitely buy fucking Bitcoin. Buy high cello. Buy high cello. Buy high cello. But yeah, the, so yeah, the idea is like we, the apocalypse. You said to have a practice, a good time to have a practice is what you were saying when I made my dumb joke about crypto.

Fuck, that is not a dumb, I made crypto jokes all day long. I could turn this into, I could do nine. This is the crypto show now. Welcome to the crypto show. Welcome to the crypto. We've got a lot of stuff to talk about. Yeah. Welcome to the crypto.

Tales of the crypto. Let me tell you, I'm your host. John Shackler. You're a crypto creeper. Crypto creeper. Oh my God. So what you know, you were saying it's a good time to have a practice. Well no, it's because like, you know, you hear all these renditions of this idea in

the various world religions and their renditions are always about like some end of the world experience. Yeah. But clearly what they're talking about is like if you are alive and you know you have a limited lifespan, you're living at the end of the world. The world, yes. Exactly. We all are.

I remember, I literally had a teacher, there was an eclipse when I was a little kid in grade school and we all had our special little things to look at the eclipse. And I remember a teacher literally saying to the class that we're all, this is the generation, our generation, she's talking to us, will be the ones to see the end of the world. And I remember thinking, kind of like going, whoa, that, okay, and we're little so it's like impressionable and I'm like, that's wild, dude, it was crazy. Never forget it. It was very, it's very vivid.

Wow. And I don't, yeah, it was so weird. And then I remember later thinking literally what you're saying, I was like, well, I'm going to see the end of the world no matter what, because I'm going to fucking die. But I used to always say, God, I'd be, I mean, this is fucked up, like, but I used to think how neat would it be to sort of be alive for some like massive fucking asteroid just crashing into earth and we all go together. And for us to have like a two year warning window to just see what humanity would be

like for those two years, because I have theories, I have so many ideas of what I think it would be different all over the world in different pockets, but I think by and large, all the bullshit would stop. I truly think humanity would begin to, I don't think it would become like a fucking crazy society breaks down madness. I think currency would stop. I think all of that, all these systems we have in place would stop, but it would become like fucking burning, man.

It would be like, let me, everyone would be helping each other. We all are going to die in two years. There's no reason to fucking, like, love would, it would just be this fucking utopia. I mean, utopias usually come with all kinds of fucked up shit, like, you know, but I think it would be like an actual, like what most people think of utopia to be, which is beautiful. Yeah. And I, that's what I think would happen. Now, there'd be a lot of questions like, okay, well, if you're an airplane pilot, are you

going to keep flying people around the country knowing that you got two years to go? Are you going to quit? I mean, the infrastructure is, you know, like, are we going to be going and pumping gas still, like to drive, or is there going to be a guy at the gas station, or is he going to be trying to get to his family to just enjoy the last of the two years with whoever the fuck, you know what I mean? So there is like crazy infrastructure stuff that I'm not sure what would happen. But I do think by and large, people would be helping each other.

It would be peace on earth, I think. The idea of saving money would seem so stupid. Right. And just, it would just be like, look, I have, I have a, I'm a farmer. I have food. Like I think a lot of people would, I think a lot of people, believe it or not, I think a lot of people wouldn't be selfish in those last two years. Why have a billion dollars in the bank?

What are you going to do? Yeah. It's Brewster's million. And also, by the way, that money would be worthless overnight. Yeah. Like what's a billion dollars? Fucking carrots. How about some carrots?

Yeah. There you go. How about some fucking, how about some food? Yeah, that's it. You know what I mean? So it's going, it literally would be like, I've never been to Burning Man, but I'm pretty familiar with it. You must go.

I know, everyone tells me I need to go. Go next year. No, but you know, I know I'm going to be seeing some really cool stories from too many different people. It's a beautiful, beautiful possibility. And what you're saying is, like, I've actually heard that like, God, I've heard crazy, awesome theories about how like, you know, September 11th was like a split in the multiverse and the other, like that fucked up the possibility of essentially everything just turning into

a thing like Burning Man. But like anyway, the, the, um, what you're talking about. I think is, um, really does remind me a little bit of like some of the chaos magic stuff I've, I've read and one of the practices in it is like, you know, just imagine for fun that you are in the part of the universe, the multiverse, so to speak, that is transitioning into this sort of utopia minus the asteroid. Because one of the sayings is like, well, the world's either going to end in war or festivals, one or the other.

So we're sort of entering a really beautiful age, which is the age of quantum computing. And if you look up that shit, I was like, what the fuck? It's crazy. What the fuck? I know. I was watching this quantum computing shit, man. And like, I thought I was on like, uh, like new age website, because the guy was talking about this like machine that, uh, was going into like alternate universes and pulling

back solutions from them into this universe. And I'm like, whoa, this is like some cool new age shit. And then it's like, no, it isn't. It's the guy who's making the quantum computers that are being used by NASA. And this, it's like, what? Dude, it's crazy. And think about computers in the 70s, they're, or like, you know, giant, they would take up a full room or like the 60s, I guess it was, you know, and now they're in our pockets

and they're infinitely more powerful, not infinitely, but, you know, and now quantum, quantum computers are going to do, they're existing in a superposition. You know about superpositions. You know about that shit. Is this, is this, is this have anything to do with like, like, uh, oh, tell me, tell me, cause I just, I don't want to superposition is like a new cryptocurrency. It's like way better than fucking Bitcoin. And I highly recommend that you invest.

Let me know where to buy it. No, no, no, what, what is it? So, so, so, well, I'm sorry, everyone. Let's see, forgive me. I obviously am not a quantum physicist and, but it's, oh wait, is this like the quantum entangled particles where like one particle fucking over here instantly change, like has a reaction to another one, which by the way, makes me think that's make, that's all, all, sorry, cause I know you're going to tell me the

real thing. Cut it, cut it, cut it, cut the guy off, he's not superpositioning any time you want, man. No, but the, but, but like all, all of the like quantum physics stuff is that's the stuff that I look at as the, the, the most glaring evidence for the potential of us being in a simulation, cause it's just like, what in the fuck is going on here with the quantum entangled particles? If that, I might be saying that wrong, but like they're, they're, you know about that, right?

Where it's like, there's a particle, they could be fucking across the fucking universe. Yeah. And, and so obviously faster than light, if I change, if this particle could get changed, that one immediately responds in real time. Which is, wait, let me interject here. This, this brings me to a point I forgot to make earlier. Yeah.

And it kind of goes against the fucking nihilistic bullshit that I do love to bellow out for no reason. For I do like to say, there's no future, no past, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, one of the ideas is, okay, so if this like quantum entanglement exists, and if there is this potential for there being a multiverse, and if the super position is the idea that like, essentially like a particle is existing in all the states at once, somehow in some way we don't understand.

So there is theoretically a future version of you. That is enlightened, awakened, and existing in some kind of techno utopia that overcame all the problems of, or maybe it's like in the future, they took you, you're one of the people who does have a very high likelihood that the very least being reproduced with some AI and, and like sort of put in some kind of like, yeah, let's do it. So probably already happened. Put me in the, oh, that's where it, oh my God, of course.

But that being said, if this is the potential that time is like all happening at once, then theoretically you could connect to that version of yourself in the future now. But even weirder, that version of you in the future could be calling all the various suffering versions of you into itself because it has compassion for all the various forms of itself that are suffering. The version of you that right now it could be like, I don't know, under a fucking pier right now and some sick glory hole up to your fucking waist and

like shit wearing like a clown outfit, fairy wings, just cheeseburgers scattered around all the way to like a version of you that like, I don't know, is like incredibly obsessed with his abs or some shit to the version of you that like never, ever got into like art at all. There could be some being, some super hyperversion of you that's like, come home, come home, calling in the way that it's calling is by sending ideas backwards through time. And every time you get an epiphany or that desire to help or that desire to

make yourself better, you're actually getting a telegram from the future perfected version of yourself saying, hey, I'm up here, over here, this way, come over here. That's that, you know, again, agnosticism. No, no, no, I mean, listen, I love, but that's what's, that's what's great about agnosticism is that you can talk, you can think about all this shit and explore it and get your mind, have your mind blown by it, you know, like, whoa, what the fuck, it's great, it's great.

It's better than being like, you know, rigidly locked into some sort of ideology that you're basically engaged by, you know, we're almost at the top of the pyramid here. And because we have elevated you to this situation of a man God, do you have anything you want to say to the people before we put a obsidian dagger in your chest and offer your heart to the sun god? And then, well, I will haunt everyone. I'll do my very best to try to haunt everyone in some way.

So maybe, maybe scientists, you know, keep an eye out for hauntings. That'll be me. No, um, I don't know. I always say the same fucking thing, which is just like, I think if you can do something good for somebody every day or try to, or even if it's just once a week on any level, on any scale, even if it's just tweeting something nice to somebody, uh, if that's all you're, you know, you have access to, let's say you're a total agoraphobe or whatever, just, just if there's someone out there

that you're, that you're a fan of, or that you're, or that, or that you think kindly of, even if it's, even if it's just someone you know in real life, I don't know, just do something nice for people if you can. I think if everyone did more of that, not only does it make you feel better, but it also sends good energy out into the world and the people that receive that kindness, they'll cycle it back in other direct, it'll go back into the cycle of kindness. I just think there's too much, right now we have so much fucking disconnection

from, from humanity and from empathy and, and emotions. Cause we're all just looking at these screens and texts and it's like you read the text in the tone that you perceive it to be written and it could be completely different tone and it could be, you know, there's just all of that going on and I don't know if you can, if you're hearing this, like just go out and help an old lady across the street. Just, no, I don't know. I mean, no, like seriously, like if you see a loose dog, like, like stop

your car and try to save it from getting hit or if, if ever there's an opportunity that presents, presents itself for you to do something to, to make a positive impact in, in the world, you know, try your best to do it and imagine it as a doorway and imagine it as a door into another dimension. Because like, if you look at those opportunities, not as like, well, there's a thing I could do. It seems really small. Instead of thinking about that, think of your, your entire universe is this

cube that you're stuck in. If you don't like where you're at and every time you do something good, you literally walk through a door into a slightly different universe. And all you need to do is like a few dogs, a couple old ladies, a few nice tweets, and the next thing you know, a fucking UFO to be landing. Oh man, Norm MacDonald had, had this, has this hilarious story about feeding a homeless guy. It's, I'm not going to repeat it.

It's a long joke. He's so funny. Dude, I fuck, I love that guy so much. His sense of humor, because it's like, he's the perfect example of someone who's like, you know, he's a good dude, but then he has like an edgy, like his sense of, he's, he, he, he, he'll tell jokes that by today's standards would be like, if you know, the classic thing that happens, comedian tells joke, joke gets taken, put into text form by some outraged journalist.

People read it and, and it's just anger across the globe. It's a joke. It's a fucking joke. Like, can we stop? But, but like, he's the perfect example of someone that, that would happen to all his old shit. It's like so easy to, like the whole Janice, the, the, the woman that goes missing, you know, that whole bit.

I don't know if you remember, it's great. But anyway, so he, he has a whole bit about feeding a homeless guy. And it's, it's funny because it's like at the, it's at the crossroads of like, oh, you know, he's going to help this guy out. He's going to do a good thing. And then it's, then it's just the comedy comes in, the sort of Seinfeldian like reality of like this homeless guy stinking the whole fucking restaurant up and he's like, I should have just helped the guy get crack.

You know, like, I think it's the punchline. It's like, you know, he's like, his, his mom always told them, oh, the homeless, don't give the homeless people money. They're going to go buy crack. And then he, he's like, I'm going to take him, I'm going to get by him, buy him, buy him food, you know, and take him, take him to, to lunch or whatever. Anyway, I've heard a variation of that joke where it's like, don't give him money.

They're just going to use it for drugs. And it's like, I can't remember who says this joke. I hate doing this. I'm so sorry you ever told this joke. It's not me. I did not write this joke, a very famous, great comic wrote this joke. Forgive me. I'm sorry if someone tells me what it is.

I will credit you. But the gag is like, yeah, he's just going to go buy drugs. And then I realized, well, that's just what I'm going to do too. That's great. Yeah. Well, we have to, you know, it's a, I think that like, you know, maybe what happens when they, when that you get to the top of the pyramid and right as the knife is about to plunge into your chest, if you've lived a

good life, the pyramid flies away or something, you know, which is weird. I don't mean to like, keep going, but that was the weird idea of this multiverse super positioning shit is that you literally can't die. Yeah. You're connected to, it's across all of the, right? That's what's super. Whenever this you dies, you pop into the other one and then the next you and the next you and the next you really fucking crazy.

No way out. No escape. Infinite. Never. No break. Oh man. Man, thank you. Yeah.

Thanks man. It's great to see you. It was great to hang out with you. I always love hanging out with you. It's the best. I don't think we hang out enough to be honest. We gotta hang out. I agree.

And this, this is such a wonderful conversation. Yeah. Thank you so much. Uh, how did Krishna? Thank you. Yes. Uh, yeah. No, no.

How do you respond to that? I gotta stop doing it. Thanks for listening, everybody. That was Justin Roiland. Definitely. If you haven't seen it, watch Rick and Morty and make sure you play. Trover saves the universe. Big thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH.

Remember, if you go to squarespace.com forward slash Duncan and enter in offer code Duncan, you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain and much thanks to you for listening. If you like the DTFH subscribe and give us a nice rating over at iTunes. It truly helps and get a Squarespace website. That helps too. But what helps the most is for you to stop splitting Adam's professor William Frank. You know what you're doing.

You're causing the Mandala effect in our universe like a broken pinata spirals infinitely downward decelerating and accelerating simultaneously and causing our universe to become increasingly absurd. Take a vacation. It's time for you to get away from that particle accelerator and enjoy a nice hot bath. Hare Krishna. We'll see you all next week. A good time starts with a great wardrobe.

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