Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 347: Dan Harmon

Episode Date: August 3, 2019

Dan Harmon, genius writer, producer, and co-creator of Rick & Morty joins the DTFH! Guitar intro by Aaron Golberg, check out his Bandcamp here. This episode is brought to you by Instacart ($10 off your first order when you use code DUNCAN at checkout). 

Dr. Rick here with another tell-tale sign you're turning into your parents getting particular about your drive-thru order Don't pull away yet. I like to check the bag because one time they forgot to give me extra ketchup People are waiting. Hmm. I'm only seeing four nuggets Wait, nope, there's five Progressive can't help you from becoming your parents But we can help you compare rates on home insurance with home code explorer Progressive cashalty insurance company affiliates and third-party insurers comparison rates not available in all states or situations prices very based on how you buy Are you numbing dumb and full of cum like someone overrun my demons that would read

Some satanic son have you lost your way? Are you lost along the way like some child calling out for the mommy, but mommy doesn't answer Do you hear the clowns play accordion and pick a low above your grave? You are lower down into a popper's hole. Are you lost on fire on fire lost within the fires of hell? Smelling that infernal state that arises from the devil's pink. My name is Jim Church I'm a lightning strike survivor event And most importantly, I'm the return of Jesus Christ and Osiris. I want you to come to my compound

I can heal you by making love to your wife or to you Are you looking for solutions to the plight of being human as you mule upon a temporal cross made of the past Hanging like a Jesus bug hoping for some kind of hug a little bit of mercy Don't they see that you're so thirsty? Longing for a drink of some unknown thing a potion that will soothe the pain Nails stuck in your hands feet when I was struck by lightning I was visited by seven golden things one of them had a glowing orb The other had a gauntlet of fire the other one had three marbles the other one had

Bunny ears the other one had a whip made of tears and the other one had a cookbook The seventh one had a sand dollar. They taught me the secrets of tantric healing I want to make love to you and your wife come to my compound in Louisiana. You will be healed Much thanks to pastor church for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH if his musical ability is any indication of His abilities a cult leader then I think y'all should definitely head down to his compound because that was a beautiful song And if you are a cult leader big or small an up-and-coming cult leader If you're just starting a cult if you're even thinking about starting a cult or if you're a long-term cult leader With a huge flock all are welcome to advertise on the DTFH and we have rates and packages

That will fit any cult not just in the United States The global all the links you need to find our rates are located at Duncan trussell.com Friends I don't know maybe it's just something about me, but I have a feeling you're probably the same way What's worse than going to the grocery store and getting sneezed on by some? Infected toddler and a slimy freaking grocery cart filled with sugary crap I prefer to stay at home Which is why I love instacart because they can get groceries delivered to your door and as fast as an hour or at a time That works for you. You don't have to sit in traffic

You don't have to collect coupons because all the coupons are there in the instacart app All you have to do is get the app or go to instacart.com And shop the groceries you need from your favorite local retailers. They will shop for you They will deliver it to your door. They keep hot items hot and cold items cold You can try instacart and get ten dollars off your first order to get this limited time offer Go to instacart.com or download the mobile app and enter promo code Duncan at checkout That's ten dollars off your first order today at instacart.com or through the mobile app And don't forget to enter my code Duncan instacart.com or through the mobile app with my code Duncan at checkout

Try them out if you've never tried instacart. Welcome to glory land when especially if you live in a state where civilization reigns and marijuana is legal and you get a craving for some good food and you don't want to drive and Suddenly there's a wonderful person with a bag of delicious groceries at your house This is paradise friends dive in and swim around Thanks instacart my brothers and sisters We have a wonderful podcast for you today with the genius Dan Harman But very quickly before we get into that I just want to plug my patreon if you go to patreon.com forward slash DTFH

You'll get commercial free episodes of this podcast along with every month an extra hour long Rambling dialogue coming straight from a doctor who graduated recently from the University of Bro science I will tell you everything about quantum physics that you need to know including things that some Alleged quantum physicists have not figured out yet. For example quarks and neutrinos are actually lasers also Dear sweet loves if you are in the Los Angeles area this Sunday coming up I'm gonna be doing a sit at Samarasah yoga studio in Echo Park if you go to their website You'll see all the information. It's free. It's not gonna be that exciting in fact

It's probably gonna be pretty boring if you don't like sitting still for 20 or 30 minutes I'm not gonna be talking or anything. It's just gonna be I'll probably ring a bell and maybe like for a couple of minutes Talk about the way I've been taught to sit, but that's pretty much it But if you want to come to a nice meditation group on Sunday, that is gonna be happening at Samarasah yoga studio Okay, love. Oh, also. We have a shop located at duckatrustle.com. Get yourself some swag, please now without further ado I have for your enjoyment today someone whose mind Never fails to astound me. It's incredible to watch Harmon vomit out genius effortlessly and this particular episode. I think was my favorite one with him

He made community He is one of the co-creators of Rick and Morty and he's got a fantastic podcast called Harmon Town Definitely check it out. You can find him on Instagram and you can watch his animated show inspired by D&D sessions called Harmon Quest on VRV without further ado everybody, please welcome back To the Duckatrustle family our podcast the glorious Dan Harmon It's the Duckatrustle family It's the Duckatrustle family Oh

Damn should this be right in my face. Oh, yeah, like basically like I'm sorry about this by the way man It's like I'm still getting this aspect of it set up But the more it's in your face the better, but I wouldn't worry about it too much annoying things You know, don't worry about it though, it's like that's perfect. I'm sorry. I got to get this worked out No, I got I got I got I had one of these in my nightstand in my bed. Really? That's so perfect Yeah, good idea just to grab ideas Yeah, or just to well just to like I'm for a little bit there before I started moving my job. I was thinking about like You know, like what what if your goal was to like

You know be able to do everything from bed. Yeah, which is You're not supposed to think that way. It's not weird. Yeah pain culture. All right. It means you're sick Yeah, well, that's right. Yeah, I started that's the funny thing is that very quickly if you want to be productive in bed You know immediately, of course, you're looking if you take it seriously You're pretty quickly crossing a threshold from Amazon to like hospital equipment Like yeah, there could be this thing called like hospital punk or you know hospice culture kind of like Mike micro micro convalescence. It's fucked up It's like the only for a lot of people hospice and baby time is the only time you experience real compassion in your life

Yeah, everything in between is a hellscape. Yeah, where people you know, if someone's nice to you it's an emergency situation and like I was just watching, you know, this a New York City five police officers in one month committed suicide and Which is weird that it's contagious, but You know, the one of the police general chief was like just call out if you need help Just and I was thinking like how fucked up it is in the world that to get like help Just basic human compassion. It's an emergency situation. Otherwise, shut the fuck up. Yeah, if you're on the precipice of executing yourself Call out, but before that, please don't bother me

You know, yeah Yeah, I was just listening to this thing on the drive over here Radio lab has this like mini series they're doing right now about intelligence measuring and and the latest episode somebody talking about whale intelligence and the theory among the people that that study whales that they think that it's possible that Their echolocation is is carrying a feeling with it that and that and that they have something that we

kind of strive for and would consider super advanced, which is just macro empathy to the point where if If two whales and a giant pod of whales are sick then the the entire whale pod To an outside human observer is basically saying singing we are sick Because there's two of them that are so they're all feeling it and until that problem solved. It's it's all of their problem Which we would consider very advanced or maybe some people would consider that the nightmare of

Socialism or something like like what but only only if The sickness then kills the whales like I think that's what that's what evolutionary humanists are afraid of is Oh If we all every time there's a an unwed mother that needs diapers, we all need diapers We're all gonna go down and none of us are gonna finish our album. That's what we're worried about Whoa finish our album That is it too, isn't it? It's like we're in such a strange place right now. Hold on one second. I just I'm sorry Dan No, no problem. I'd be scared to make this

Leap I've been trying to record stuff in my car like singing and stuff and Like This doesn't track so it's like there's a weird bit of trust yeah Well, isn't there a button? I'm sure that like where they tracks the cursor. Well that tracks the whatever I found it yet. All the stuff is a mystery to me, but I could just look at that red dot and I see it now I can tell where it is not Sorry, dang I want to get into the

terror of socialism That is right now one of the like just hounding people's brains because it's this idea of like First of all if you remove all the echo like if you heard the word Communism or socialism minus the history of Either one or what people think it is You have like pretty much an obvious sort of way to live Which is we need to commune with each other there needs to be a communing that happens in our civilization And so the act of communing with your neighbors would one word for it be communism

I'm someone who communes. I like the feeling of being in communion with my friends. I like it. It's nice It's a great feeling by the way when you're having sex that's good You could say you're a communist because you're communing with your lover. It's great or an antisocialist to the other thing is like One of the insults are like you should better watch out for that guy. He's antisocial You know, that's no good if he's antisocial he set shit on fire. He'll fuck your dogs He like doesn't have a reason for it. He just does it. He wants to hurt things But so that we should be afraid of like if a new Sort of economy was emerging that was an antisocial

Economy and people really plugging it. It'd be a good thing to like be scared of But for some reason people hear socialism and they're like, they're gonna take your fucking house, right? So Yeah, this is like to me a problem of semantics, right? Like if we could come up with another word for it people would love it right away. Yeah, I mean Isn't there like a bunch of ways in which Even the the hardest core kind of fiscal conservative would agree that that Something that they would basically refuse to call socialism as needed like I

It's just like the people that are people that panic about the idea of socialism Probably also panic about the idea of anarchy But it's sort of It's a big semantic soup because these words mean like almost nothing at this point But if you you're right, we do need to I think take a step back because for instance, I probably differ from you in that I don't I don't want I Don't want cooperation imposed on me. No way because that's not cooperation. You don't That's fucked I you know, I were the same there fuck that I don't I don't want to wake up

On Tuesday in the mood to be exceptional to be private to be isolated alienated and Have someone knocking on my door like my entire life is the equivalent of a long weekend with a girlfriend's family Where well, we do this thing where we we get coffee and then and we have this inside joke And now we play trivial pursuit now. We do these things. I don't want that loss of control over my life I think that it but What what I want is I don't want to have to feel guilt or shame or about like

getting more at Some starting line that I didn't even participate in than other people like I Like If you if you if you get born in a country and you're not allowed as a baby or able as a baby to go I think I'll be Swedish like like then what does it mean to be a Citizen of that country. It doesn't mean anything, right? Like it you get born Swedish you got born French you got born American and in any case, it's not up to you like

What your first pair of pants is it's not up to you what neighborhood you live in it's not up to you What color your skin is it's not up to you what school you go to for the first like 20 years of your life Like it's and so since it's not up to you all that stuff It's isn't it kind of weird that if you at 30 years old are sleeping on a Park bench that some other dude who also had no control over their circumstances is like They're the one with the badge and the stun baton and they're like zapping you and going hey

You can't sleep here. Yeah, and it's like I'm just very I'm fascinated and confused lately about About that that concept of homelessness for instance where we all agree we wish there weren't dirty poor people on the streets Yeah, and but we keep it it just seems such like such a fundamentally weird thing where we're like I Wish that dirty poor person didn't exist because what really makes me angry about them is the idea that I owe dirty poor people Something and I you know, it makes sense like it because it's like we don't respond to an emotional level to a person in need With this like Urge to help them we want them to go away We want them to not have need. Yeah, and then but then when we talk about

politics and policy and things That's why All I ever strive for is I'm like, can you get can you get those people out of the off the sidewalk with the policy? Yeah, so that I don't have to engage it on an emotional level. Yeah, and that's as cynical as Liberal thought can get I think it's just be like I dude. I'm a liberal because I just I just want everybody to stop like Being a reason for me to feel ashamed of myself Fuck yeah, it's like when you go shopping for meat

You don't want that. That's why there's no such thing is like there's a cow that greets you at the door or a juice You know, you have orange juicers. It's cool. You go get your orange juice. You watch the orange is going the juicer Yeah, I mean the right to the right to isolate the right to Because yeah, if I was a if we were cavemen and we lived in a tribe of a hundred people I wouldn't I Want I'm First and foremost. I'm an elitist because I want to be like come on man. I'm not that good at hunting mammoth like yeah Can you just let me hang out and play with Duncan's? Moog

Whenever the prehistoric equivalent of that is because I'm just gonna slow you guys down out there You know, he's the thought that's that's society starts getting constructed and then from there you go He's people like the little skinny or the big fat guys that can't swing a club as well start going. Hey What if What if even though? You could absolutely just have any girl you want What if what if we all made agreements that once a girl says she's yours and you so you get like these horrible like kind of institutionalized all right concepts of ownership and

Things that all end up biting us in the ass, but it's all born out of like this insecurity of like Can I just be a nerd and suck my thumb and mind my business and but also is someone gonna take out my garbage and wash my shit away and and yeah, most importantly of all though like like like like kin Can I stop worrying about all of you? Yeah, well, it's not is it it's like um

There the feeling of being sort of held by the universe With zero obligation Do anything in the universe outside of whatever your main job is is glorious I mean you can't find a better feeling than that sense of like fuck I can be in my house Just making music. I can order stuff that comes to my door when it comes to my door I don't have to then like talk to the guy. This is always the difficulty of buying drugs You know, it either has to be more of a

Depending on if you have it. Fortunately in the old days. I have had very nice I'm not trying to insult any of my drug dealers because some of them are my best friends But I'm saying like when you end up with like a real You know sort of lump, you know And someone who's like brain has been mushed and you just kind of were like interested in buying some dope You don't feel like having a long conversation with them But you kind of have to because it's prohibited. Anyway, what I'm saying is the glorious sense Of being able to drive by a person laying on the street and think to yourself. Well, that's someone else's problem

I know you know people fix that is a is a really like narcotic kind of Sick Wonderful and you know and that's the ties pleasure. That's a hundred percent related To the fact that we're not pods of wales Feeling each other's reality Yeah, because the moment if some if like just by some miracle the earth shot out of virus That made it so that you had you you had that thing, you know that thing people can feel other people's pain, right? If everyone had that

Tomorrow we're in fucking coral marx land. It's communist at all the way through no rich person It's gonna be able to sit in this fucking nice place Feeling someone starve nearby because it would hurt you you'd be like I got to get food to that person I think well, maybe what we both agree on is tomorrow if that came out on the shelf at best buy or at your local pharmacy The first person to try it would immediately spit it out and go. I don't want that ever in my mouth again like like when we when we say If everyone had it if if if everyone had it it might be no problem Yeah, and it's just that it's just that big problem of like nobody wants to nobody wants to get fucked

Nobody wants to be the first person or the only person To to start playing by different rules and then you just like oh man, you're done Well, I just I just kind of like I put out a tent and I said hey is anybody want my shit and then the answer was yeah These 20 people did and then they took some of my shit and they started a business Selling tents to people that want to put tents out, but they they charge five times as much and now they're now they're in a fucking space station filled with diamonds and coke and laughing at me and Because it turns out being poured doesn't automatically make you a good person in your heart

I should know because you know, I wasn't born rich But but but you you touched on something kind of interesting there, which is I think is poetic, which is we do Now more than ever we have the ability because of technology to whether it's drugs or even just diapers or applesauce or pantyhose or toy trucks like we We can it's crazy that you can just click on that stuff and it'll come to your door the next day and that and that that's not really regarded as As like something that rich people can do it's like basically how we're how we're all starting to We're all able to do it. There's like the price differential is not it's not like oh if I go down the street to kmart I

I I'll be a better I'm being better with my money than if I buy it on amazon. It's like we all are able now and also not even being punished for this like curbed a door kind of service but and the It's funny that the exact same technology is is is also making it impossible for you to ignore Every order world right and which is responsible for all these those culture wars that we're having because you know

You're younger than me, but you and I both Through the lens of comedy could like look on the spectrum I was like 10 years ago pat and oswald could do a stand-up set and it didn't matter and we all we all Lived through these markers where it was sort of like, you know Well, the internet is ruining comedy the internet is ruining like This aspect of my life that I really held valuable which was isolation pockets context Due process whatever you want to call it like like

Where where it's like, you know, and now it's just like You can't you can't not know Um That someone somewhere would have a problem with what you're doing or saying right now Right That's to happen and we can make a problem I mean the thing is is like if for whatever reason you just feel a basic sense of I don't like you Fuck it. I can make what you're saying bad

I can take anything you've said if you have enough of it out there and I can prove that you're a satanist I can prove you're a pedophile. I can prove you're a fucking cannibal I could find ways to make the thing work if there's enough of it out there and especially If I've got a group of people who just want to be mad Who don't want to even look into anything at all who just want to read a sentence and say that must be the way it is It's a terrible mess. It's like a but it's all but don't ignore the fact that that that shipment of that guilt and shame and outrage Is coming in the same box as all the Oreo cookies you want Uh diapers at three in the morning. Like like like it. That's the thing is we're getting this big box of

Other people we're getting we're now able to just have whatever we want, but that doesn't include isolation and include but We're and we're finding I think We one has to take extra psychological steps Should one want to have one without the other? Yeah, so Like you're sitting in your basement You've got your drone coming in from your favorite electronics store

Your brand new microphone. Yeah shotgun shells your Your your applesauce your your dog collar that that's gonna wifi sink your dog to the outside perimeter of your fence all these things that are just make your life more convenient for you as an individual and The but they come in all of those things those luxuries the ability to have those things without having to drive all the way to fries Much less talk to a fries employee. Oh, I got you. Um, all of those things come with this crazy signal over the same ham radio, which is like Must be nice to be

You realize when you do your piece of shit These voices are coming in so you have to build this faraday box to like people are being challenged It's like let's say so it's it's a little wonder you see these this rise It would have been a big wonder to me 10 years ago if you had said to me Do you know that the internet progressing along this trajectory is actually going to see the rise of factionalism tribalism nationalism jingoism xenophobia I'd be like no that doesn't make any sense because

I'm an early adopter of the internet and every if it's very clear that it's all boundaries good or bad are gonna melt away Yeah, well, no not at all because the human impulse us not being wales biologically The human impulse is for isolation Like like like and if and if we're denied it It if you send us a box that says all of your cookies are in here plus a bunch of guilt We're going to twist and contort our brains Um to eat the cookies without the guilt. Fuck. Yeah, that's genius man. Yeah, that's it 100 we are boundary. We like to like, you know, you look and you see

Fiddler crabs at the beach. They're cool. I love them They like you've ever seen a hole like a marsh with fiddler crabs that they hold their it's crazy I mean, it's crazy because they're clearly some kind of society and they Dig little holes for each other and they all will go back in these holes And then they come out of the hole and if you go by they raise up their claw at you all of them together Like look, we've got these claws. It's kind of pathetic. It couldn't really it's sad to they understand that they don't understand the power dynamic

Because you could smash them They're definitely not guns that they're holding up. Yeah, man, it's sad to watch a crab brandish his claw Just back the wrong Darwinian horse. Look at these crap Let me imagine the speeches down in those tunnels guys now the more than ever we have to show solidarity If if if we go out there tomorrow here, I hear farmer Cummings coming guys We've been over this Those of you who don't go up and raise your claw in the air you you're part of the problem

There needs to be all 80 claws coming out of the holes in this marsh or Crabs may may actually be in danger at the hands of a sentient primate that can make gunpowder If we all put our claws up, you'll see the fear in his eyes Just one he'll eat it's all this pork once um I don't know. I have crab stories It just came into my mind But this this crab was in a tidal pool and I saw the crab and the crab was aware that I was aware of the crab clawing up

And I'm walking down the tidal pool and it was like in the tidal pool Shadowing me holding like Shaking its claw at me just to make sure like look. I'm I could chase you if I wanted. Yeah that's that's to me is like When I find myself put throw my claw up like that against like literally infinity And you know inside you're like what this claw throwing It's doing nothing and then you see on the internet like what you're talking about Swarms of these poor little, you know

Imaginary crabs, which are people's identities smashed and digitized put on a fucking twitter And then they throw their claws up Against a shadow of a thing that probably doesn't even exist and they're shaking their fucking claw. Yeah, man It's identical. It's like and then the next thing you know Sure as shit someone will be like, why didn't you throw your claw man? You're right. Well, and sometimes that'll be accurate, you know, it's not safe to just side with the general cynicism of it How do you know the difference between the moment when that claw really matters those those crabs?

Maybe they don't know the difference between farmer comings and a skunk or a Tornitoat or whatever the fucking biosphere. I don't know what they're I'm sure that that goddamn crab claw move works All the time or at least even if it doesn't work anymore it worked somehow somewhere And how are they supposed to know the difference and more it's it's you can't just side with entropy. You can't just up and go, well Your tweets don't matter and your breath doesn't matter and your mind doesn't matter your outrage doesn't matter

Nothing matters. I I don't like that either. It's just it's like are you just trying to be right? Are you just so worried about being wrong that I mean you don't get a cookie for that either if the thing if the if the horse that you bet on in the race of philosophies is None of this race matters like oh, yeah, you're definitely a guaranteed winner. But how what what is that pay? Yeah, what and what is it? What is so like I kind of bums me out too like because the smartest people in the world Default to that because it is the most logical thing in a state of chaos

It is the most surefire bet if you pull back from the earth far enough like a a little kid with cancer or a local election or a an alderman raving about a walmart going up or a A tribe somewhere that's like warring genocidally about the shape of someone's earrings Like of course the further you pull back the less all of that matters But how far back are you gonna pull pull like we talked about this a little bit when you were on my podcast and I sort of that idea of like I think we touched on this where it's like, you know, you you you and I are prone to the kind of eastern

thought of it which is the there's a foundation there which which has a sort of Neither here nor there kind of thing where it's like it's like if you get caught up in that roller coaster Your look if you pee your pants, that's that's your pee kind of thing where it's like like listen The only truth that really matters is that there is that nothing's true and it's it's like a big aspirin on on the disease of like freaking out and But I think we all both both both agree that that um, that's not there's a difference between that being an effective way of us of of

of um of getting perspective and that being uh The path to happiness because because those those very traditions would say see you're you're wrong already Path to happiness you done fucked up before we started you mean in the sense the path is the way there is no But that this idea of questing for happiness for instance as soon as you as soon as you're you know Like the dowdy jingling say if you see some things as beautiful other things become ugly So it's like that sums it up right there. It's like, okay, so so you're uh

you're a You're a the older your your religion is the more it is a very functional handbook on how to stabilize uh An otherwise unstable engine Like like like oh, yeah, nothing matters. That's right. That's right like like you have a you have a crisis and then Very often the solution is to calm down and go. You know what big picture here? At the end of the day, uh, the titanic is going to be filling with just as much water One minute from now whether or not we

Strangle each other over who has the bigger bucket Like so and we might actually that could be a path to someone going you're right I'm sorry. I just spent the last 20 minutes looking for a bucket I actually know something about the pump in the basement or I have the key you could you like like like you could unlock more uh practical. Yeah paths to Solutions just by Going We're all gonna die. Yeah, right

This is like what that's that's it. That's it because other one one sort of broadcast Definitely creates a higher likelihood the titanic is going to sink and like sure maybe There's some the odds of anybody being able to fix a fucking iceberg in the titanic with whatever's on the titanic are probably pretty slim But you never fucking know you don't know when you're on the titanic and when you're sitting in your dad's lap In a in a in a in a go-kart that he's pretending you're steering or when you're actually fucking steering it because your dad's drunk Like like you don't you don't know I think isn't that sentience isn't that why we're nuts because we have this different split between Like uh, you can't underreact, but you can't overreact

That's that's that's that's what the western and eastern Uh religions are grand right? It's basically like in the west. It takes the form of this crazy drunk like angry jealous monotheistic guy He's gonna hit you with a belt for picking wrong. Yeah, and in the east. It's like well, we kind of figured out you better You know, you don't want to sign up for disappointment But both of them kind of agree

Yeah, it's a What a fucking fucked up video game. This is where it's possible to overreact and underreact I mean the distinction you're making between those two I I think one of them is like Figure out before you can reject yourself. You have to know yourself. That's the first that's the eastern one It's like first. What are you? Are you a thing? What are you? Why do you want the packages delivered?

Is it really doing anything for you when you get the package delivered? And it's this sort of weird process if the price of the orios is knowing that you have white privilege Can you can you not add that to the flavor of your cookie, etc? Like privilege orios Holy shit Delicious the realization that uh, seven billion people have it worse than me Or it's gotta be like they're the best tasting thing you ever ate, but there's an 20% chance you're gonna get ball cancer from eating them

So you've got to like always have this sense of like my god. I think it's killing me, but the um, it's like The what are what this simple question most many people don't explore very deeply Identity itself and we're in an identity crisis I mean with what we were talking about is happening on the internet was happening to a person It's a person having a massive identity crisis and we're having a special identity crisis because we've been fucking clustering in these countries and adhering to these religions and believing this very certain way of being and waving our clause in this very specific way To the point where even talking about waving your claw in a different way

You can't get you on fox news, you know, if someone can be yelling about oh my god Did you hear this south nether hollywood mother fuckers that we should wave our clause To the left instead of to the right Yeah, and you start waving to the left and the shadow will only grow and then we're in this Yeah, you can be 16 years old on a field trip and uh smirk wrong and end up Like yeah, because that's how that's how Insecure we are about who we are like we're like that that kid. What is that kid? Is he uh, is he a nazi? Is he a socialist? What's he doing?

You know like we're isn't that a kind of a sign of our collapsing Confidence that when we're like yes, uh three-year-old, uh, first words are, uh mega News at 11 like where we want we're like that fucking give me that kid. I'm gonna fucking punch him And a font and we'll beat him. Yeah, this this thing that you're this I think is an acknowledgement that at least many people are having in the liminal

Between their consciousness. There's subconscious this realizing that Thanks to technology We are now in a position where if someone articulates a meme in just the right way The contagion that gets spread from that meme has the potential to completely restructure society in a way that no Top-down power structure can stop and it's removing all the value from all of it because we're we we learn from history books that There's something special about fdr. There's something special about mlk jfk Is that wait like we we we have heroes and they are decisive and then there's movements and there's marches

And all of these things have value and the economy of all of that is collapsing because fort nox is empty It turns out in a world where a 15 year old russian kid can use openly bad english and no apostrophes to say Pepe the frog says you have a small dick if you vote for this person and and my mom can freak out enough to Change your vote let alone like and the entire everything is I mean, we're all awash in this nihilistic realization, but That's a good thing right because if if if it if you can realize that it was all bullshit then it was all bullshit

and there's that the next step if we survive it is the realization that If it's We can retain the memory that it's all bullshit That's exactly how we should think about everything that doesn't have to do with whether your baby is eating And whether your friend is crying and whether your heart is beating like yeah, we should

see all information as Chaotic and interpretable in a million ways we should see the human mind as not a computer not a zero one You know switchboard, but a miraculous ball of sponge that is perfectly capable in the most beautiful and ridiculous ways of acting completely hypocritically

Holding two completely contradictory thoughts at once both believing in god and not believing in god like like be and like getting away from these previously required Compartments of information that we needed because we didn't have a fucking internet I can literally text you like how i'm feeling on the way home from work from this podcast because my car will be driving itself um I I I Unless I pass a cop. I won't even be doing anything wrong

It'll be it'll be safer and easier for me to let you know How I feel as your friend better than I could on a phone call better than I can in this podcast like I can just like Thumb you a message and if like because we didn't have that 10 years ago 20 years ago You needed more categories are you a socialist are you a A communist are you a fascist? Are you an atheist? Are you are you spiritual? Are you religious? Are you What are you was more necessary when it was harder for us to get in touch with each other?

And and and I think I think the kids are the the things that we find obnoxious about them with their you know, they are Through no merit of their own They're just they're just born in new different waters, but they do have a heightened awareness I think of like how every single one of them is a different story which the the knuckleheads, you know You know You know, it's like like like look at as a weakness when it's like, oh, what is every single fucking human being here?

I'm gonna fuck a different Identity and story Am I supposed to stop the whole goddamn bus because one of you decided Yeah, and and but underneath that I think is like it's like, yeah, you know what that may fuck that may be the case Actually, what a mess to split it to me. It's like it's the moment that happens You really do the moment that in your own life that clicks in For better for worse for a lot of people. It's for worse. You're of your exploitation ability drops because now

For me, it's like having a baby and then seeing the way that my wife and my baby love each other and seeing the way she just like the patience man like Watching a baby at a nipple As he gets older and they do a thing where he just like he thinks it's funny to clamp on with his lips And just yank back like like you're pulling that sound like my wife when it happens Pulling new balloons from back

And then pulling back and then and then like looking at me with this like smile on his face Is your kid 13? What is this? We found him on one of those S&M papers No, but when you when you look at when you look at that and then The next time you encounter an asshole you just think about their mother

And the love that their mother still has for them the hopes their mother still has for them The excitement their mother gets when they call or the secret Joy their mother gets even though they might be pretending to be mad Suddenly your ability to really enjoy Alienating that person turning them into the most obnoxious piece of shit on earth and what a demon It drops at least like 20 30 percent if not all the way down because you're just dealing It work You know the person who's not doing such a great job or whatever

You think of their mom how they call their mom on the weekends or at night and they're like, uh Yeah, it's going good. I you know i'm having some problems, but I think i'm working it out Huh now how do you stay mad at that person? It's really difficult and that So what you're talking about is like to really enjoy a system Where you can justify and rationalize oppression You've got to categorize people into these very very big broad categories It's like there's like this internal psychological war we're having right now where we we have gotten so good at categorization

And we're doing it seemingly in the interest of fairness, but we're Until we can sub categorize to the point where there's no more categories where these categories are going to kill us Yeah It because every story that we tell that's satisfying to us an emotional level is a story about how those categories aren't true Oh, Robert Tenero is not just an old buddy. Daddy. He's your intern I mean, it's the the most benign movie is still in the end about how this person is not going to act in accordance with your predictions period Right Yeah

Wow, and and we don't take joy in that that Yeah, I mean that's been a big lesson for me. It's like like like, you know, because Without even thinking about it Women were women for me like as opposed to like Oh, some some some people amid the various variables that they have that make up their character sheet

Yeah, D&D one of the variables is a is a gender As opposed to like, I don't know. It's hard to articulate. It's like the difference between Well, that person who happens to be a woman is Over there in the corner and There's a woman in the corner It sounds like no empty hokey semantic but it's I I you know when the when the recent wave of of

this avalanche of that that that's got 40 to 60 percent of our colleagues in various Degrees of entanglement and and and opinions and stuff like it happened over those last couple years like that was my big Like epiphany was that oh some of this shit like you're not even thinking about it That's the and that's the whole problem like and then it would be great if To not think about stuff and automatically already be doing it, right?

But then there's a bunch of stuff that no one's thinking about And the default setting is still on like Well, that's a woman like if you're if your wife walks in here it's like like am I able to Am I able to see her as a wife or your wife and that kind of shit like it's like like like, uh, you know

It to me that's the that's the because it's easier to do with like Like You know like like like because we've been raised on all these movies about like how well if you see that person as a different color Or you see them as a different weight You know I was like beauty is skin deep and we're all the same underneath kind of thing That stuff's been fed to us So much that we're all kind of Good at it like like we're just like ah, that's easy like oh faking it. We're good at faking it

We're not good at actually being I mean you can't like the this thing that you're talking about Rom das calls it soul not role. You're a soul. They're all souls. We're all from that perspective infinite sort of karmic patterns that aren't dependent on the body and that we have been appearing in the material universe for millennia in various forms and to the point where we've all been each other's mom at some point and We just this is what we're doing. Are we in a fishing net or we had a in a university?

Is it a gnostic prison? Who the fuck knows but the reality is that when you're sitting with someone Whether it's a beautiful woman a beautiful man a black person white person Nazi saint whoever and the comma between Nazi and saint whoever you're fucking with That's a soul. That's a soul just like you and there's a unification on this specific on a level just beneath identity It doesn't mean there's no identity Identity is still there if we're at a costume party. I gotta respect your costume. You spend a lot of time working on it

It says something about your choices that you made that that day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right There's a story to it. It may or may not it relates somehow to who you are Sometimes in an inverse way Sometimes in a totally just reflective way. Sometimes it's just a precipitous way like oh, I was I'm angry So I'm wearing a red costume. Sometimes it's the opposite, but there's there's a relationship for sure because In our wildest dreams, we're capable of random thought

Like like random behavior. We're not really like if you make a halloween costume It came from some Some thought in your head. I didn't mean to derail you. I just like metaphor so much because Campbell talks have talked about that a lot like The the idea of ceremony and identity and all these things of being like Not only in terms of religion and And society should we always keep one foot in and one foot out and realize that other people are just Vessels for something else but but also

In terms of your own mortality and psychology like your your mental health is reliant on you as you get older Realizing that you are just a halloween costume that you can't continue to take Yourself seriously Or you're gonna really freak out when your flesh starts to rot You're gonna take the mask off once in a while take a shower man. That thing's disgusting Also, it's like this masquerade that we're in if any of these things are true. Let's say instead of a soul Let's go nihilism. It's like we're sort of Just energetic patterns that have sort of consumed a bit

A cyclical way of presenting ourselves. We've gotten stuck in that cyclical way of presenting ourselves. However, you want to put it within that I I like the soul part idea the best though, but within it Is this invitation which is hey, guess what you can you don't you can take your mask off and try something completely new And everyone's uh, you know in in art people are always like look at David bowie He had like not he was nine different people and it's respected in art when an artist has phases and it just gives Completely gives up the old phase Starts a new phase. Holy shit. It's incredible

Or people get pissed because the new phase is not as good as the old phase in their minds But well, I wouldn't mind drilling down on that. I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to fuck you up If you're on a roll Well, the last piece I was just going to take it to the fact that now And do drill down on that but now what's happening is in a person's life We're getting down to the biological Level and as technology progresses that's going to get easier and easier right to convert yourself in every way If you want to turn yourself if you want to like

Make your make your skin darker You'll be able to make it darker if you want to change the color of your eyes This is the I don't know how far down the line it is But it's certainly on the horizon right that we will we're in a costume party Where now if we want to change our costume suddenly I'll start wearing suits or some shit. I'll cut my beard I'll wear get glasses We're going to get to the point where it's like the whole fucking thing itself can very quickly be changed And and right now the people who are deciding to do that

Relating to the sense of like, oh, I'm a woman. I'm I'm a woman now I'm going to be a woman now and converting into that using the height of medical technology And uh, uh, whatever fair what a warm on tech a warm art technology This is controversial because at the costume party. It's like no no nothing right We stay the costume that we became When we were a kid Period, right don't fucking change which is absurd. Isn't it because we're sentient primates and so we it is that that's what when you when I

talked about drilling down and just that you you you got there because The david bowie reference. I think it's like it's it's an oversimplification to say we respect it in art. Well I would say more like we have this tradition of You have to be an artist in order to engage in this frivolous behavior and even then if david if all david bowie had done was Come out every week with a different, uh, look Uh, uh, uh, we would start to treat him like garbage But what he had a way we remember his name and and associate him with like style or whatever the fuck you call it coolness because He along with like other icons whatever you associate with that stuff like the artists that reinvent themselves over time

They disappear and then they reemerge and there's a rhythm with which we respect that and it's serious Then you have this other culture that we totally also respect But because we don't take it seriously, which is this costume culture we Like so every single person even the the bank teller who Like like that we would never hang out with not saying if you're a bank teller we wouldn't hang out with you I'm just I'm conjuring a hypothetical person. Um a person with whom we have nothing in common culturally That person and you and I observe Halloween we observe

if you get an invitation to a Costume party or if it's just a game even just calling it a game And then all of us like we are able to apply that to our online behavior Like like like like when if if it's a game Then we accept that it's uh, it's okay to change your Mind your face your your your approach And that I think is the key. It's like it's like you you talked about it on on harm in town

And it was sort of like you alluded to it as basically this could be the that the actual apocalypse the The thing that takes us out Is the same thing that also maybe that's our salvation, which is this idea that we lose Our grip on the costume we were born into and realize that Thanks to technology. Thanks to advancement in thought And with a big healthy dose of jesus christ look what's look what happens when you take this shit too seriously We we reach this kind of reverse vulcan

um thing where we magnetically evolve into a race of people That um don't consider who we are to be worth a fuck Because why what like whether you know we have these arguments about nature versus nurture Guess what both of those have in common you don't control them So as I was like we sit and we debate we go like oh Do you think this guy's a serial killer because of uh his mom's

Jeans or because of what his mom threw at him when he was three um Yes, that matters a lot. Let's figure that out, but it's it's also important to note that We the the the larger like realization we need to have is right under our nose that like we don't really get To choose and and then there's all this stuff that we do get to choose Kind of maybe unless free wills and illusion or whatever but like like so Yeah, like we like like like guys in particular

But really just humans in general you get punished for changing your mind You can't just like I just like we look at it as weakness It's like oh, yeah, I thought you said Batman was a good movie now. You know now you're saying it's bad We especially would punish it um if uh If we could nail you on uh Oh, you said Batman was a bad movie, but then uh that redhead over there by the punch bowl Uh, I saw what happened. She said it was a good movie now. You think it's a good movie

Guys that was like a very that's a big part of like masculinity is like you fucking you're you're not authentic You didn't you weren't stubborn enough You're not you're not real You're you're fake. You're virtue signaling. That's the thing they call it like like like where it's like Oh, I decided the other day that I'd like people to like me and I'd like them to know that I'd like them to like me You fucking fake piece of shit. Yeah, you fucking spineless cock You fucking like Vaporous non-entity that can't be taken seriously. Look at my hard cock. Look at my backbone

These things are real. They can't be hacked. They can't be changed. I was born the way I am and will remain that way forever that's strength and it's like it's It's extinction. I mean it's I like it's not it I I have the same visceral response to the idea of somebody that just does Changes when the wind blows as long as the person doing what you just said acknowledges They're wearing a costume of a person who does that shit It's way more interesting than a person who's forgotten. They put a fucking mask on right and it's standing at the halloween party

You're not wearing nothing Yelling at everyone for acting like Dracula. Yeah, exactly. I am from Transylvania Blood is my main guy. You're not Dracula. You're just Dracula because it's halloween That's where we run into problems Yeah, yeah that guy's a bummer But we and we the the the it's really sad problem with all of this is the adherence to some mask thing Is the punished and and that that we get punished for

Taking the mask off and and and even saying like god, I didn't mean to wear the mask I'm sorry. You guys I got lost and being Dracula. I bit people at this party. I fucked up these masks are really really Good, man. I'm I'm very imaginative. I'm a very immersive person. Yeah, the mask actually it injected like various like hormones and Neurotransmitters into my brain giving me memories of a time when I did live in Transylvania I'm an adaptable person if I was raised in the North Pole I'd make a house out of ice if I was ancient Spartan. I'd like I'd have a different definition of murder. Yeah

I am a I am a human being Created but yeah, it's like I think we should let ourselves off the hook for that as well. That's it. Well, this is what to me it's like No number one answer the apocalypse thing. It's literally at least Linguistically the apocalypse if we're saying people at the costume party are gonna at least temporarily take their mask off to put a new one on That's the lifting of the veil That's what the apocalypse means lifting of the veil in this case It's the lifting of the mask and if we're gonna change costumes

There's gonna be a weird time in between where we're gonna see whatever's under there if it's nothing this It's nothing this but I don't think it is regardless The problem is like, you know, this there's this like homophobic pastor Who wrote a book? Which is just filled with homophobia and filled with old bullshit crazy Jehovah level Christian shame shit and he realized That it was wrong

And he realized he fucked up bad because this is a book that gets read at youth camps and shit for Christians And he was suddenly in the worst predicament of all time Because he he realized. Oh my god. I was wearing this awful mask when I wrote that shit. It's not real I don't think i'm a christian So he had to decide do I come out and say this Even though i'm going to get the people who love me And send me emails every day like thank you so much

You taught me the truth, which is I should not have sex before marriage And I know now why you told me that you you have to like Disappoint legions of these people They will hate you they'll say the devil got into you and then also all the gay people whose lives you fucked up By Recommending these people treat them a certain way are going to be like fuck you Fuck you. You want me to be like, okay now you don't get to be fuck you justice So what the eat clearly in that situation? It's kind of easier to keep the fucking mask on and we got to figure out a way

to like Let people be start over. Yeah mask. They're whatever the mask is they're wearing and if we don't Accidentally we're holding up the very thing that we're realizing is not so great. Yeah, that's the problem to me It's like god damn it. We got to figure out a way to like yes that mask sucked He was an asshole. He bit jake in the fucking kitchen Thought he was Dracula. He fucking bit a lot of us and he's well I think you just hit on something a couple sentences back. I think if I heard you right It's like you kind of like

Sped by it, but it's like really it's like, okay, so here's the thing um the our Our mask analogy that we're drawing all this like clarity from It there now there's this other thing that we're not talking about which is that in order to wear a mask there has to be You have to are There has to the mask has to be on something and it's I just realized that it's not the changing of the mask that people perceive As weakness. It's the it's the root

implication of being able to change the mask which is There's nothing under there. Yeah, so it's like this cyclical kind of thing like even I Can agree and maybe I maybe this is what I need to get past is No, there's nothing under there or do we have to find what's under there? Are we as humans? Are we children of of a Deadbeat god not to judge him just characterizing his the amount of hands-on

Intimacy that we share with him um You know kids that that with they're feeling a lack of connection with Wherever we came from like are we have we been all of this time just Trying to wear his clothes and like emulate and like that's why our obsession like And you can reverse that if you're an atheist and say well, that's a site That's the psychological phenomenon was projecting and creating it upon our gaining this ascension

So trying to cope with it would create these gods that represent The human condition and things like that. So are are we In either case are we um, have we been aping What we what we have always believed You're supposed to be if you're powerful, which is decisive and extant um corporeal

able to affect change um and we Are we at the is that the big precipice that we're at where we have to accept our We have to aspire to uh non-efficacy non effability non

Extents is that a word like like because I mean as in the climate change like that's what we're We're trying to figure out how to solve the rubik's cube of making it seem like we haven't been here in a while Because that's only like oh shit like but that that follows 60 000 years of us expressing Absolutely the opposite or like damn. I'm gonna put a pyramid here like otherwise someone no one's gonna even know I was here And and and now we're at this precipice In you know where we're kind of like and I think I don't think it's limited to that It's we can see that clearly in climate change and I guess I'm saying like is that where we're at kind of psychologically

On mass and spiritually and all this stuff where all of us as individuals and as a species like are faced at this test Where we're able to go shit Which it would Campbell would allude to is like he would always use this example of the whole the He would point up at the lights for the kids and that he was speaking to and he would say look at these Look at these bulbs up there Well, you I mean if and if you identify with the bulb then you're gonna burn out and that's gonna be a crisis But if you identify with the light that's coming off of all of them

Then one bulb burning out doesn't mean anything and the trick is to start as a bulb and gradually shift your consciousness to It's that's cool. It's it's it's it's it's Campbell 101 But it like also put this is like are we actually at this point where we have to like if we're gonna move forward through this Like the internet has like has like posed to us It's like putting a mirror in a parakeet cage or worse like a orangutan cage where it's all like that has never seen a mirror Like it's dangerous what we've done. We've we've we've given ourselves the ability to ask what we are at a thousand cycles per second and we

Is the way that we're gonna survive by finally admitting that we are With we are what? Well, we're nothing that if there was a mask there It's for the same impulse that there was a there was or wasn't a god that then did or didn't say that let there be or not be a universe because the mask is Simultaneously evidence that in the beginning there was nothing that we are nothing underneath And also the most beautiful poetic expression The most important thing the will to be something I want to be Dracula. I if i'm not Dracula

At this halloween party. I'm not melvin from accounting and that doesn't mean anything Yeah, my Dracula costume is not going to make melvin a better accountant and melvin doesn't exist God damn it melvin is another Dracula costume underneath that and that's not shameful Because what I am is a is a fucking child Beam of a bigger beam that all it is is this algorithm that says it's better to be anything than the alternative And the alternative is very fucking real. It's at the core of everything Which is nothing at all and so all hail the the fucking Dracula man

And both respect it and don't get don't don't overreact to it I love it man. That's it. That articulates the bardo condition in between Lives in Tibetan Buddhism you go into this bardo and in this place You're freaking out because you don't have a body anymore And if you haven't prepared for it at all, you're really freaking out because You've done the near-death experience thing where you've sort of done the life review You've seen your body there and you've like witnessed the

Your your own death, but then not just that now you're dealing with like Having no body for real and you don't get to go back to the body like you don't get to put the mask on This isn't an eight-hour acid trip. This is the mask has got off and now you're this sort of karmic Momentum that's moving through a house of mirrors, which is just a projection of your karma onto the mirrors Except the mirrors don't just reflect your karma. They become living beings that come up to you and talk to you torture you torment you And and and so you get freaked out because you want a body again because you're very vulnerable in this maskless Moment just a little ripple of karma or moving through time

And so then you're freaking the fuck out and in that freak out session You end up coming back here and you maybe you'll come back as a human Some people come back here like people running out of a burning building Some people come back here with some intentionality. Well, it sounds like you're describing like these salvia youtube videos Like the real ones are people like justin showed me some of those justin roland Like he's like, oh, yeah, there's a there's the silly salvia videos, but then like There's it's like it's a dark thing and justin had done it. I never did it, but he said yeah, it's like

It's ego death like and it's it's like you're locked in a fucking coffin like you You suddenly lose all awareness of your existence like justin described like like like like the idea of like All of a sudden being in a field and all of his friends laughing at him because he his whole life had been fake and The real them were like watching him this whole time, but he all you know

It's like I do you see those youtube videos right where people they They they giggle and then they go into silence and then they start like they start moving around and they're like moving around as if Like in this panic because the movement isn't accomplishing anything But they're feeling the effects of their body colliding with Foreign objects. They just don't know who they are or why they are where they are and so people just like climb out of windows

seen it like it that's I watched it and I was like There was a spiritual component to that that was terrifying to me It's terrifying. Yeah, because like like that is sort of a metaphor for it's what you're describing. It's like this idea of like if you Were able to remove the Dracula mask and then the melvin the accountant mask underneath it like would you ever Come back isn't that death and well you that you you are that this is why

Yeah, no, you're you Number one the real terrifying thing is like the reality is Where the mask all you want like this is the mask realm you could say the human realm and wear the mask But still you're thwarted by the mask wearing in the sense that functioning Around you and in you Is an infinite space that you're part of and you're really focused zoom down in this one place Neurologically, but you know the truth

This is why it's considered confusion as a condition of enlightenment because if you really want to fuck up the whole game Take your confusion of being a mask wearing You know vampire in the human realm And look at the part of yourself that's aware of the confusion That knows you're confused Now what's knowing you're confused anytime you get confused there's a part that's like i'm confused that part isn't confused It's clear as a fucking bell So confusion is considered to be just on the continuum of awakening or awareness or whatever

So you really can't escape from enlightenment is the problem and so but we just don't want to deal with that So we're running into the mask realm. We're burrowing into matter and identity Temporarily, there's no way we could stay here regardless. We're gonna stay here for as long as we can Imagining for a second that we weren't this vast spacious Progenitive sort of reality. Yeah, it's like squinting to make something clear for a second, but it's not really Or these things that you can do in nature where you can like You can you can force yourself to have a like if you're falling asleep at night and you know You don't want to fall asleep. You can kind of like you can muster a spasm of

Through your shame of oh i'm falling asleep and i don't want to be asleep and i got shit to do and it's like you can It's it's only It's my first existential gag. I've never that that just made me have like i've never had a mix That's so good. Keep going man. But it but it's but it's i mean is sad I mean it's sad to us because we have a relationship with non-existence as extant people that we think non-existence is better there's a it's Could be cute beautiful to think of it as like

It's the cutest oblivion i ever saw The idea that oblivion at the end of it is just like oh a little oblivion doesn't want to be oblivion No, he wants to he wants to have a halloween party. Well, that's very sweet And and this is why like a lot in buddhism all the emptiness there the Nothingness thing that there really is like a lot of buddhists are constantly trying to rework that Translation because it's like not The nothingness thing is like there is also something this clearly These are these these things are both here like it's there isn't just nothingness and everyone and also the nothingness thing

Is like the word itself is like it's translated into nothingness, but other there are other words like luminosity uh the clear light or Spaciousness or better descriptions. It's like you the nothingness thing sounds terrifying when I think of nothingness. I think of a kind of dark black Just Like anesthesia forever situation. Whereas this is more like well Yeah, there's a sort of Spaciousness within which there's phenomena and you're both of these things simultaneously

So the anxiety and panic about like the let letting go what you just said it really didn't like Feel quite uncomfortable. This is a more of a result of a kind of ignorance of the situation And so the idea is like number one right now This is why the human birth is considered the best Because animals are just pure instinct. They're not going to think about this shit. Maybe monkeys or something But you know, they're they're they're playing they're they're sleeping. They're hungry so their realm is defined as ignorance and then uh the realm of the gods

which is like on this earth would be like just I don't know people who like have infinite infinite infinite infinite wealth It's more difficult to get into like taking your mask off in that situation because you're fucking You know, you know who cares who cares like yeah, which is the microcosm of it being like me sitting at a bar With a phone everyone at the bar has a phone. We get in arguments about who directed Hudson hawk No one

Bothers to Look it up. No, because that's not what's important Because the reality is like if you knew everything Then you wouldn't be at a bar. You wouldn't be in an argument. Hudson hawk wouldn't be a good or a bad movie It wouldn't matter who directed it that idea that mounting The threat of nothing mattering To us seems like a threat but yeah

There's a we've experienced when you take mushrooms, it's like There's a there's a positive. It's like we we call it. We use different words for it You're not entering oblivion when you're on mushrooms. You're gaining perspective. Yeah, but there is a sort of It's like less and less matters. You like you don't take mushrooms and then like Realize how how many of your taxes you need to file like you you You you you you're more prone to like stare at a bathroom fixture. I think that's an expression of like well may as well Look at this as talk to my friends

Which is sort of like That's a beautiful thing when you're on Silas Ivan, but it's like Yeah, I think that's because mushrooms somehow puts you on the on the uh The buyer's side of the market of the oblivion exchange. Yeah, that's right. So you're like you're actually gaining From oblivion. Maybe well, yeah, you're you're yes, you're there is well, you know, it's there's One of the one of the concepts I've been taught is you know that thing where you come back in

So like This thing while mushrooms you do also we do it when go to sleep We do it when we daydream that thing where you're driving for 30 minutes and you realize where the fuck have you been You're like you've gone 20 miles and you don't remember anything that happened in that 20 mile period We lose our keys. Where the fuck were you when you lost your keys? You're gone. You're gone Right. Well, certainly the key keeping part of you was definitely dead. Yeah You could just look back five days ago And think of what you were doing at two o'clock and really think about it. You what the fuck you can't remember that shit

Yeah, forget it's gone. So that you know the this situation is like terrifying when it's like Uh thought about or it happens intentionally, but the it's already happening all the fucking time and uh, So the idea is like but when we pop back in that's a really interesting moment And that's a moment of like that's the that's the return is what it's called So that weird moment where all of a sudden you go from the daydream into a sense of like, wait, I think I have something What is that? What is that moment? And this is, you know, a place to like Uh, recognize is all to open your mind to that flickering in and out that we do is these fucking

strange creatures that are like Aquatic creatures in the sense that instead of living in the ocean we live in the great emptiness And yet for some reason we only think we exist when we come up for air and this produces this hilarious Society that we've built In the place where you come up for air, right? And even though we're always going down down down. We think we think we think that life is We call real life the cabana next to the pool, but what are we doing? We're swimming We're going in and out and in and out of the pool because it is the actual crossing of that threshold That is the cricket leg that that makes the sound that makes us alive

It's the friction the friction of going back and forth. Holy fuck. You're right. That's it. It's this that's the alternating current It would be another metaphor like like how like Like, you know, electricity It's like it's like it's just a thing going back and forth, right? Wow, man. Yeah, that's it and that That that just I think just that Maybe just realizing that and let it let that realization take care of itself If that were to ripple out into society, uh, then I think there would be a natural Kind of non

Fascist shifts that might start happening. We would you would just need it to happen. The problem is it requires a person individual the problem slash The double-edged sword of the thing is that it does require a sort of Individualistic approach to the exploration of this situation Which people love because there's a heroic component. I love beating the shit out of that guy. Can't can't wait to Can't wait to make fun of him. Oh, hey, have you heard about this guy? that uh Says we should all just chill out. Yeah

That's cool. No. No, he's really popular. It's really gaining popular. Okay. I guess I can respect that And then it's just mounting and mounting. Can't wait to fucking rip his intestines out. I can't wait to find out He's a fucking freak monster hypocrite. I'm fucking probably cheats on his wife and fuck your non Look at him over there eating fucking peanuts I thought you were god while you eating peanuts. Hey, I never said I was god get him Shut up. You're just Only because there is a kind of grotesque Fervency that comes out of you when you start just when first because if like we're at a costume party

And somehow 99% of us forgot we were wearing masks and suddenly you come down just enough from the weird Costume party drug that we all took before we put on the masks And get this great relief. We're like, oh my god. Thank god. I'm not Dracula. Holy shit guys. I'm not Dracula It's a mask. Holy shit. We are high So this fervency comes out and if people are still tripping balls at this crazy interdimensional costume party, they're like, fuck you, man Fuck you. It's it. Fuck your goddamn sanctimonious bullshit. This is a costume party crap Fuck get the fuck out if you don't want to wear the mask. I get it, man I've been the fucking screamer of the costume party and certainly I've been the loaver

Of the megaphone people blasting the shit out in these aggressive ways. Both sides are like Easy to fall into and quiet. It's just Which is why I love this idea of like this is not a thing you need to bugle about And you certainly do not need to listen to someone bugling about their Unmasking because they you're not wearing their mask. They bought their mask at the fucking halloween store. You bought your mask at fucking city Latex shop. It's got locks and buckles and it's got Your rick baker

You've been looking forward to this all year. Yeah And you don't have to worry about whether your response to other people's bugling makes you a good or a bad person It needs to change in the following ways or whether you're on the path to enlightenment or whether we're all gonna Whether we're all doomed, I guess. I mean, I mean, what in the hell is Going to happen in the worst case scenario. That's any different than the best case scenario If you pull so far back that all it is is a bunch of shit that was here and then it's gonna go somewhere else Um

And uh, so there you go. Now we can now we can just hang out Exactly and the relief of knowing that these fucking punks punks, what am I fucking pillow right? Wearing robes and doing the thing The relief you get Realizing. Oh, yeah. Well, maybe But you don't have to listen to them. They're just giving subway directions like anybody else

They can tell you where the subway is Maybe they can walk you to the tunnel to get into the subway But you've got to get on the subway if you want to go on the subway period Just that realization that no one's gonna help you and that's not a uh that you're in a hopeless situation No one's helping. No one's gonna get you You are not going to be helped and so the costumes people wear at the party that look like they're fucking paramedics or whatever Forget it You got to do it yourself

That's what I love and because there's something really joyful in that because now it's you and your loneliness And you should be lonely because it's a lonely situation And then that's it and within that you can do the you can go see yourself See for yourself because no one's gonna help you so give it up That you're gonna get helped And if someone's out there trying to help with their fucking crystals and the saws and the fucking thing and the gems and the bells Whatever the fuck it is That's okay, too

You know, I get it. I've been helped by those people to some degree But the help I got culminated in a realization of like, oh fuck. I gotta do it myself There's nothing else to that and maybe if not for them You know guiding me into a certain degree to like look because it's a mask you see that right? I know one's gonna hurt and no one's trying to do anything to you that you can't supersede with your own control I just take it back to that guy who's getting his box of Oreo cookies and white guilt from amazon slash twitter all in one box like It's an it is the time is upon us to

Figure out what we're going for Going as for halloween if nothing else. Yes like it the game of of Arguing with each other and going you're just trying to make me Do this or think that is Me personally using my eye statements. It's like it's we we got to grow beyond I got to grow beyond that Like like like it

If I haven't proven by now that I can do whatever the fuck I want um Then I don't know what i'm doing and if I continue to protect that right or celebrate it or Set fire to it or it relate to it in any way as if it's part of my identity My ability to do whatever the fuck I want when really that's the least special thing out of about any human in the world The least that we can offer any anything

Then I'm uh, you know, I'm still not a bad person, but I'm just wasting a an opportunity to Ask myself. Who am I? What what and by who am I? I mean who am I not? Like who am I going as for this particular section of this halloween party like and why what does that represent to me? Like what what what's what's the what's what's the thought there? You know my a little my little Dracula maximize the there's a tundra idea called adding wood to the fire It's really cool. Which is like actually just fucking maximize the harmon

Maximize the doing whatever you want to do. How far can you take it? What happens if you instead of thinking like oh fuck this do what I want to do thing I'm going to like watch it or get all mindful and let it be What happens if you go deeper and deeper into it intentionally as hardcore as you can for a week? See or a day or whatever see what happens if you turn the how do you have a dial? And if you do how far does it go up and keep turning that fucking thing up? And then within that you get it it actually incinerates the mass or not so like being like yeah I possibly another way of saying this or it's an alternative. It's like also

Maybe you're done with that. Maybe maybe maybe maybe it got dialed to ten a long time ago Or it's been at five for so long that you you know, it's done its purpose and The new frontier has to do with other people not in an empathic like Daddy warbucks. Let me get let me go find some more of an Annie's way. But like in the sense of like It's a it's a different concept like who am I like the idea of me I talked about on Ron Funch's Podcasts it's just that I talked briefly about that idea of like being Like mirroring like being in the room that you're actually in with the people that you're with That's something that you have the privilege of doing if you've been yourself for 45 years

You can now afford to Uh Speak less reflexively to the people that you're with you can listen to them and and think about What you've heard and like and then like Pick your reaction from a from a from a from an ironic compartment or spin a random spinner But but but in any case actually like think about it like like to have fun with it be at the party As opposed to like I think I think what I tend to do I'm just on a neurological level is like and to over

Overuse the metaphor. It's like I'm at I'm the guy at the Halloween party who's like he threw together a Dracula costume And he's there, but it's just he my thought is on Some fireworks celebration that's supposed to happen in the backyard at midnight and not That or or some girl that I came here to see or how she's gonna feel about my Dracula costume and Or or or the work I got tomorrow after the party and in any case just absolutely not I am here. I'm at this party. I am in a Dracula costume like that that that's a human kind of habit We have we're like we're all at a party and we're all looking

Around the room or we're talking to each other. We're half distracted because we're Hating ourselves Wondering if we should be standing where we're standing. This is the to me like I'm do you have enough time by the way? It's uh, yeah Oh, great. Great. What do you it's 103? What do you think? I I do if I leave here make season five of rick and party is Nobody nobody You're making good morning. I got people to do that. Okay, great. Okay, cool. Um, so The aesthetic of the phobe. It's called phobing. I heard it's where you look at your phone at the table when you're on a day And it's really rude phobing. So is that why is it called phobic?

I could it was a block. It's like a fear. Is that like phobic or like is it like a different? It just sounds like a neck. I think is why they called it phobing. It's like i'm i'm phony. I'm whatever Oh, oh like foe for phone. Yeah phobing. So it's dumb But it's stuck in my head. It's stuck in my head. It's funny too because I just said to you they call it phobing Like it's some universal thing. I read it. I'm like daily mail but the It's I like it because it demonstrates the rudeness that we're already doing to each other minus the phone Which is that uh, you know, there's this cool idea that as humanity developed

the separation between conscious and subconscious became Not literally night and day. So our subconscious we dream at night in the day We have this thing called sobriety or whatever like default reality is But it used to be the two are merged together dreaming what happened in the day. That's where the gods appeared That's where the all the mythology happened. That's where the listening to the lord or whatever. It was the beginning of your um Neocortex taking over so to speak and so now what we do is we have this imaginary phone in our heads

That seems to be a result of that which is where we can refer to This interior phone wins the firework show Does she think of an asshole does he like my costume? Why did I come to this fucking party? How am I driving? How am I driving all this number checking that voicemail? Yeah, it's all happening except it's our thoughts And so we've become fixated on the thought pattern During any engagement with any kind of reality at all You're deeply into our thoughts

But in the same way we're under our phones because I think the thinking thing is a relatively new dimension of human reality because suddenly now we're not we're like actually able to like contemplate and think and it's fucking cool and he's fantasizing daydream This is where we're at fixated on the thought patterns and so This is the the difference between the phone and the thoughts is people you can put your fucking phone down and turn it on Sleep mode or whatever your thoughts you can't we can't turn it off yet Someone left it on our brain and even worse than that. We started to think we were our phones

Except it's in our minds, you know, that's to me is the sort of Situation which is like god damn. I think on my thoughts and I gotta say because I think it's part of the solution rather than just Again, it's like like we we realize what we're doing wrong And then the important thing that i'm learning in therapy is like okay And then but then you don't have to just fucking go. Oh such a piece of shit. We're always doing that like the species Yes, we're always doing that i'm like and then i'm just reminding myself right now as you're describing that i'm like Yeah, but you know like show me

Show me two species and and tell me that one of them is obsessed with its own thought and is constantly Inventing devices and habits and patterns because all it knows is that it's not quite comfortable With the way things just were and is trying to figure out how to make things the best possible for itself possibly even for other people And then and then you got this other ding dong over here waving its crab claw in the air Or like oh, I grew a long neck so I can reach the leaves and like fuck off man. I love I love I think I mean I just like that is holy The anxiety the neuroses the self-loathing the the the bad habits the the hypocrisy

It's it's all like It it's like it's it's like loving or hate it, but it's like god damn it's like I'm patriotic about it on a biological level like it's like it's like it's it's it's it's it's it's we We we invented that phone and and acquired that habit. Um Through the same circuitry that might Save us might might lead to us Inventing the phone of putting our phone down I agree man. And to me. That's these bugling fucking, you know party ruiners

They're the first to tell you turn your thinking turn your thoughts off. Yeah, you must learn to stop thoughts You're thinking no, it's like it's beautiful. What you just said is it it's to Realize how holy fuck I get to carry around in my fucking skull the most advanced Computer Existing in the universe that we're aware of That's right above my neck and it's still not enough the way we react to it is that We there must be more than this. I mean that's really that's a lot more admirable than being the ancient realm of fucking cognition and being like Hmm. Guess I'm better than a grizzly bear time to stop

Well, but this is to me. I think again a bad articulation of it by people which makes people Don't thought shame me You know, I get my brain is making these wonderful things. It's like But the the for some people the problem is You know, we no one having a phone. Fuck you man. I love my phone Don't don't don't get on me about my phone. It's the best thing ever Fuck off I came up when there was Commodore 64

Or if you wanted to jerk off the porn, you're gonna wait an hour to look at a jpeg Suddenly I can like just have everything I want immediately sprayed out on this thing. Don't phone shame. Yeah, the the the people I just yeah that wave of like people like oh everyone's on their phone like that guy that points it out at the at the lunch or the dinner or the bar or whatever i'm like It it probably would be a great idea for everyone to put their phones down But it's not going to be because of you. You're not selling us anything more exciting than a phone. How does that feel jack? and also like It's just like are you metallica? Do you hate napster?

Like like like this is what it is. This is what's happening. We're becoming cyborgs Like I would like the fucking price is right to not be playing on the tv in the bar I would like that tv ripped off the fucking wall Um because I would like to be in here in a dark cave drinking But I would also like to look at my phone while i'm doing it because I don't want I don't want to be compelled to talk to The jackass next to me. Yeah, and I guess we all got our little it's just the the the hubris though because I don't Now i'm just gonna judge other people but i'm like i'm like i'm better though because I will sit and look at my phone and I never say

Everyone stop looking at your phone, and I also don't go. Can we please turn the fucking prices right off? Why don't you go home if you want to watch prices right out of like you're in a bar? So let me present a nightmare situation in this bar. So suddenly a man I don't know wearing fucking camouflage breaks the door of the bar down pulls out his gun and says everyone look at your phone Don't look away. I want you on your fucking phone if you look away from your phone I'm gonna fucking kill you now. Here's the deal. I know what you're thinking, but my phone's gonna run out of juice Actually, no, it's not I brought chargers and charging cables We're gonna keep it completely running for the next 20 years

You will be we're doing the the cave thing except with your fucking phone feel free look at whatever you want go through it But if I see you sending a text i'm gonna kill you When Well, because I think you could call for help. That's where the fucking stupid idea breaks down It's like great. I'll just text my friend to call the cops. There's an idiot making us look at our phones But my point is with our thoughts This is the situation is people don't know how to put it into airplane mode. That's all

It's not bad that we have the fucking thoughts. We love the thoughts the thoughts create art The thoughts create like like I need to go to the grocery store. I should take a shit. I haven't shit in the last four days What's wrong? I need to go to a doctor like We need these thoughts, but There's a big relief In realizing like that doesn't have to be the only thing you stare at that there's a way to like experiment with like

Letting that not be the primary identification of who you are in the universe, you know And then so that's this but I think a lot of people just haven't even I said, you know, people make fun of the those awful bumper stickers like Co exist like you almost have to like I don't even know if you're probably way past rolling your eyes at those things I'm not I still roll my eyes when I see a coexist bumper sticker It still is like did you really like you want to talk to them and be like did you Is this helping? Do you think this is help? Do you think anyone like a nazi

Is riding down the street and sees coexist and it's like what have I done? But for real, I remember in ashville, north carolina years and years ago seeing a bumper sticker That said you are not your thoughts And I was I just it hadn't occurred to me. This was a long time ago, but I remember being like wait a minute What does that mean? What the fuck does that What all of them what am I and within it produced a lot of great things in my life? But just a lot I don't think a lot of people it's occurred to them yet

They haven't thought yet that maybe that thing rolling around in their head is not solely what they are And if it is solely what they are then great, but they haven't even made done the experiment You know of like wait, is this told totally me my thoughts? Is there What's aware of the thoughts or the thoughts sitting in something? What are they sitting in? Who's the Realizer of the thoughts, you know that that that exploration can produce for a lot of people a great relief Because they're tormented by their thoughts. Yeah, you had said that to me a couple conversations ago as it stuck with me was that that idea of like

Hey, when you start to get when you start to spin out You're having a any kind of like thought crisis just thinking about the fact that what you're doing is observing your own thought And what a miracle that is or a miracle. Maybe that's too That carries too much significance to say but but like That that is a thing to happen that that that that being able to think about your own thoughts is I don't even want to say weird

But it's a thing and that you can then observe the fact that you're observing your own thoughts and then your suggestion being We'll now think about the fact that if you're If if you're thinking and then you're observing yourself thinking then are you yourself? And if whether you are or you aren't as an observer of your own thoughts, then aren't you Simultaneously your own thoughts and a thing that is observing them and doesn't that kind of make you Doesn't that bring you closer if not atoning completely with like the universe, you know Because what the hell could what else could you possibly be if you're looking at yourself thinking? Yeah, what yeah, and it's a first step and and and and the beauty of that is that you could be 16 years old and your thoughts about your thoughts

could be Shit if I don't stop being jealous I'm gonna lose this Prom date. It's turning her off, but I can't stop it That It doesn't have to be profound It's like it's just a human condition that you're always in a spot of like god damn it. I'm like I'm overthinking it. Don't don't overthink it

But don't overthink overthinking it and all that stuff and that that spiral isn't something to steer out of You can you can follow it and whip around and go look at me. I am a fucking not a fiddler crab I'm like thinking about thinking about thinking and like that makes me god That makes me something that's a little more spacious than my thoughts. That's for sure. Yeah, it's gets you at the very least It's like giving you an I don't know a bigger house. It means it means I don't it means like you know It's like I can I get to ask myself At my convenience if I'm genuinely homophobic or or or or if I genuinely

Love my mother or if I'm you you get to put it means everything's on the on the auction block Yeah, yeah, and that's because that is like the you can't be compassionate until that's happens because It's um, how are you gonna be fucking compassionate? If you to other people if you haven't like put as much as you can on the chopping block So to speak by just realizing like when a thought emerges there it is. It's not your fault Like just that like if you just like think of any fucking rotten thought you have had that thing that might spring into your mind There's a hammer nearby and you're with a friend And before you could even stop it this swamp gas thought rises up or maybe I'll just take this hammer and smash my friend in the knee

What Where and why but you it's not as though there was a thing where you're like, you know what? I want to think a really shitty violent thought right now I want to sit here and think about smashing my friend in the knee with a hammer. It just came up Now our three a relationship with our farts is more healthy than our relationship with our thoughts You know like you fart and it's the worst smelling fart of all time. You might be like boy. I shouldn't have eaten that fucking Uh vegan burrito that was bad. I knew it because I'm I'm I'm there There's not there may not be a third party witnessing it and saying what's that smell but even relative to yourself

There is an objective accounting And we are constantly committing the crime for standing in an elevator and the and the fart is in our head We just we can not only not smell it. We can just we can we can we can we can also not have dealt it We can pretend we didn't the question here I don't know. I can't do an Alan Watts exit. I wish I could but it would be who is the dealer of the farts and and and and when you start realizing because You wouldn't go to the therapist and say god

three days ago I was in my car and I farted and it smelled like Someone poured a diaper into an old bag of sunships and it's just Really really driving me up the wall. I I'm ashamed of myself that I generated this stink and but dear god You have a thought this or that whatever it may be and let me tell you we have crazy thoughts

Crazy thoughts and the most mundane thoughts and you will you can get really you can offend yourself And now you could go into a neurotic spiral Because you had this terrible thought. Why did I think about hitting my friend in the knee with a fucking hammer? What's this latent violence in my life? Why is there latent violence in my life? That's a why do I keep smoking cigarettes? Why do I keep drinking? Why do I keep why do I keep? Yeah, uh raising my voice whenever someone challenges my sense of control. Why would I mean to the nicest person in my life? That shit gets into like I keep doing these things and the answer is you keep having these thoughts and you're not smelling them and you're not

Accounting for them and the the the coolest thing that I've learned in therapy because it's like it's like I love learning that That something doesn't take any work Is that all you have to do is be aware is is is practicing increasing the awareness is smell your own farts That's neuroplasticity because if you're smoking cigarettes and you're not thinking about it One thing is probably not going to happen is anything other than smoking them and But if you Simply think every time you're smoking a cigarette think there I go again

Smoking a cigarette you don't have to tack on to it because I'm a piece of shit You just have to go. I'm about to smoke a cigarette. I must love it a lot or something I don't know the the road flare. It's like my therapist characterizes it as like Practicing slowly but surely You're just gradually increasing the nanoseconds between One thought and perhaps the reaction or stimulus and the response or

Two thoughts that are particularly always chained together. I I look at it like If you know how like roads are formed because someone's going from Trying to like riff geography someone someone's going from Dresden to Rome and You know over time Like like like people are going to be walking over the same shit

But not only that but then if you see a path and then the rest is weeds It wouldn't really even matter at that point if there's a faster way from Dresden to Rome The faster way is the fucking path because there's less tigers and less brambles That may be a very winding weird road, but over time it becomes the way to get to Rome and The fastest one. Yeah And and that this neuro plasticity concept this concept of being aware is the metaphor for it is you You just make more stops as you're walking to Rome from Dresden. You stop You have a picnic as a picnic is a nanosecond long

and and because you increase the chaotic chances that After you pack your fucking picnic basket back up Maybe this time just like the first fucking guy that walked from Dresden to Rome did Maybe you're gonna pick your own path Just randomly maybe the way it's like like the more you Stop along the way. You don't have to be noble or strong or willful just Pause and and and even that sounds like it takes work, but it's like just thinking about thinking

um increases the odds of new branches of thought Dan Thank you, man for coming on the show. Don't fucking try to get me out of here. I don't want you out. I'm kidding. I'm kidding It's like three hours. I just can't think of a better thing to end on than that. I know I know I blew it. I blew it. I know Cuz cuz you're like, dude, we fucking did it. I'm like, I just wanted to ruin your you ever see the porn the porn's the ruin ruined orgasm porn It's just a smirking woman It's like twitching dick

Oh Man you are a genius. Thank you for your brain and your mind and spending time on the show Thanks for having me in I wish I wish I wish the two of us were less uh Less psychotic so we could ever talk to each other. Uh, uh, without, uh, uh, engaging in our performative, uh Dracula masks. I like our Dracula mask. No, no, it's working great. I'm just saying it. Don't you think it's kind? No, I didn't mean to shame it I just think it's funny that like we both share that we have a more genuine conversation But if we if we spent three hours talking at the at a bar, I bet we would have talked about way less

valuable Ritual we need the ceremony the podcast and I love it and I like sitting with you at the bar man, that's all of it's fun And I love you and I can't wait to see you again I hope you will when you were talking about getting people come to come play music at your pool workouts Please let me blow out some synth stuff worried about this being near the pool. This is I hadn't even considered it Offer withdrawn. That's how dim I am I'm worried we're gonna get electrocuted and there's no water in this room

It looks like for those who haven't seen photos of it it looks like In the scene in Star Wars when c3po has been knocked around on the millennium falcon during the Timefighter fight and then the there's the comic relief moment of him going. Oh boy. Oh, he's just covered in wires Well, we'll figure it out and I'll find another instrument Yeah, just maybe just a nice guitar. I got one. If that falls in the pool Fuck everyone lives. I have a shitty guitar Until next time man. Howdy Krishna. Wait, Harman, dude, where can people find you? Oh, I don't know I got go go watch brick and morning November 2019. I have an instagram account. That's my sole recourse to

social media dan harman on instagram Thank you A huge thank you to the great dan harman for appearing on this episode of the dtfh. Also, thank you instacart Check him out. Use our offer code dunkin to get $10 off sign up for our patreon at patreon.com forward slash D t fh and won't you give us a nice rating and subscribe on itunes? I love y'all and I'll see you next week until then. Oh and come to my thing on sunday at samarasayoga studio It's donation only it's it's I just want the motivation to sit still and having a group of people around helps

So maybe I'll see you on sunday if not and that's going to be the first sunday of every month from here on out So if I don't see you then I'll see you some other place probably until I see you May your eyes light with a glorious fire of all that dwells within the sweet love that connects all the mothers that have ever lived from The beginning of time to now to all possible infinite futures. Hare krishna A good time starts with a great wardrobe next stop jc penny family get-togethers to fancy occasions wedding season two We do it all in style dresses, suiting and plenty of color to play with get fixed up with brands like lis clayborn Worthington stafford and jay furar. Oh and thereabouts for kids super cute and extra affordable Check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at jcp.com all dressed up everywhere to go jc penny

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