Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 359: Mitch Horowitz

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Mitch Horowitz, author, speaker, and expert in Neville Goddard, joins the DTFH! Check out Mitch's new book, Magician of the Beautiful: An Introduction to Neville Goddard. This episode is brought to you by: BLUECHEW - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and get your first shipment FREE with just $5 shipping. Cryofreeze CBD (by Omax Health) - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 20% on Cryofreeze CBD and all site-wide items.

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. On my scooter I am free And the world it is my friend Ear buds sing a sweet song While my scarf's a-flappin' in the wind

As I ride through these streets Inspiring all the drivers To give up their commute And start livin' for one day Oh my god, somebody call an ambulance! Someone call for help! I just heard of the last YouTube stream Of YouTube star Booty Booty

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Have a storied past and an infamous creator I visited this creator to fill good In his palatial mansion in Malibu And I think you'll find his reasons For creating the bird scooter to be Surprising! I'm Colin Shuler And you're listening to

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I took a Saturday drive up the Malibu And that was the little guy The sunny Arabian immigrant Is the creator of bird scooters The paint-to-plane transportation lines All over American cities Black flanks with the bird scooter logo A big lettering fluttered

Around his massive dry line And Deville Good's house was painted The same midnight black As his infamous inventions The bird scooters He greeted me at the door And I went inside He sat down in the parlor

And I asked him the question That was one of her unsanitary Mr. Good You feel her sensibilities Are all the people Getting hurt on your scooter Ah, Jihad against the West continues Did you say Jihad?

Yes, that is correct Jihad Like terrorism? We were planning a variety of Secret terrorist attacks Oh my God Destroying the Washington Monument Beheading the Statue of Liberty

Driving speedboats into whales Speedboat into whales? Why is that? What's that? Have you ever seen speedboat drive into whales? No Of course not It's terrifying And I'm a terrorist

It's what we do But by the creator's grace We realized that in fact All we had to do was distribute Scooters throughout the cities of America You wanna hurt people? Yes, simple, brilliant Americans will get on anything

That has a credit card machine on it They just search her onto it Like moths to a flame But isn't this illegal? No The terms of service clearly state That these bird scooters were created by us To destroy American lives

We had several teams of attendees Look over, so We are completely not liable For any harm caused By these wonderful machines Holy shit Okay, well thanks for the interview You're melting me

A beam came out of De Vilgun's eyes And melted me And now I'm just in some kind of cup All melted and like a cage This has been Colin Shuler Much thanks to Colin Shuler For that riveting bit of journalism We have got a fantastic podcast for you today, pals

Mitch Horowitz is here To talk about his new book The Magician of the Beautiful An introduction to Neville Goddard I have been in a deep Neville Goddard rabbit hole For the last month or so And it is completely transforming my life

He has a wild And I guess you could say Controversial philosophy That involves the idea that The imagination is The paintbrush of God And that you are God And it's some of the most psychedelic

Incredible, beautiful Sometimes very complex Sometimes laughably ridiculous Philosophy that I've ever heard But since I've been Working with some of his ideas I've got to admit I have experienced some pretty wild

Synchronicities Some of which you're going to hear During this interview So stay tuned We'll be back with Mitch Horowitz If you've got the desire To snort glory off the buttocks Of an iron clad sun god

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We also have a shop Located at dunkintrussell.com And we are dropping 10 new designs in the shop In time for the Christmas season So go to dunkintrussell.com And click on the shop link Okay, today's guest

Wow Wow This is the second DTFH That I've done with him And every single time I communicate with him My life changes for the better He is an author

And a speaker And he is an expert On someone who I am deeply absorbed in right now Neville Goddard He has written A billion books But Mitch just wrote

A fantastic introduction to him Called Magician of the Beautiful You should definitely check it out Mitch has written a lot of great books If you want to find out more about Mitch Go to his website Mitchhorowitz.com All the links you need to find them

Are going to be at dunkintrussell.com So now everyone please Welcome back to the DTFH Mitch Horowitz Welcome, welcome on you That you are with us Shaken, going to be blue Welcome to you

Wow, wow, wow Mitch, welcome back Thank you, man Wonderful to be here Great to see you So, I, like, I'm going to dive right into it Because whenever I get to spend time With someone like you

I'm going to take advantage of that time Now, you introduced me To the subject of your latest book Magician of the Beautiful An intro to Neville Goddard In a second hand way Because you introduced it to a friend of mine Noah Lampert

Yes Who then started telling me about it And then I started listening to An audio book by him And my mind started melting Because it was so brilliant It was such an interesting interpretation Of Christianity

And also, when we discuss this Before we started recording There is so much strangeness In what he's saying That I'm confused by bits and pieces But before we get into that confusion I thought maybe you could give us A little synopsis of who Neville Goddard is

And what his philosophy is about In a nutshell Yeah, Neville was a British Barbadian mystic Who lived and worked here in the U.S. Until his death in 1972 And he had one essential teaching Which is that your imagination is God And he meant this in the most literal sense

That everything that you experience Everything that occurs in your life Is your own emotionalized thoughts And mental pictures pushed out into the world And Neville taught that Whenever you read a reference to Jesus Or Yahweh in Scripture Old Testament, New Testament

That is a symbolical reference To your own imagination And that Scripture itself is nothing other Than a blueprint to your own Psychical development Which will culminate in your realization Of yourself as the creator Clothed in human flesh

And the important thing to note is That he didn't mean this as metaphor He meant this quite literally His imagination is what we in the western world Call God Wow! Yeah And where...

What are his roots in? Where did he get this from? You know, he was born into this rural society In 1905 in Barbados To an Anglican family He came to New York City To study theater at the age of 17 By himself

And he had some success in the theater world He was in silent films He performed on the Broadway stage He traveled as part of a dance troupe In the United States and Europe And he was experimenting With various mystical and occult ideas Late 1920s

Wasn't getting anywhere And he said that in the early 1930s He met this mysterious teacher This turban black Jewish man Named Abdullah A Jewish man of Ethiopian descent And that Abdullah Tutored him in this

Mind metaphysics Abdullah's in Scripture, Kabbalah Number symbolism And that it was from Abdullah That he got his philosophy of mental creativity And soon thereafter He started publishing and writing And the amazing thing about Neville is

He delivered thousands of lectures Across his lifetime Wrote more than ten books He was incredibly prolific And he would restate this thesis Over and over again that your imagination is God And every time he spoke of it He wrote of it, it seemed fresh

And entirely new And that's why people just fall into Neville Because when you start reading him When you start listening to him You're imbibing this radical idea And every time you encounter it It feels like the first time He had that incredible capacity

Which I think is seen very very rarely Sometimes you find this in Emerson Sometimes you find this in Krishna Murthy That every time the man said something It sounded like you were hearing it In that radical new way As if for the first time Wow, it is like that

Every time I Listen to this audio book Every time I sit down with it It's an entire new Illumination seems to happen Yes Do you believe in Abdullah? Is that real or do you think he was saying that

Because he was worried people wouldn't just Accept the fact that sometimes Anybody can have these transmissions Or these epiphanies? That's a really tough question And I've wrestled with it And in Magician of the Beautiful And elsewhere I write about the possible identity of Abdullah

I also write about the possibility That Abdullah was a composite He may have been a collection of teachers That Neville wrote about Now the purists would say I'm all wrong That Abdullah should be taken at face value That this was a really existing man And it is true that Neville gave

The address where Abdullah lived I've been inside, I've visited it I've been inside the building I've tracked down all the historical reference points That are available to us And I can't conclude One way or the other whether Abdullah was an Absolutely real person

Or whether Abdullah was part of A kind of American metaphysical tradition Which you'll see in Carlos Castaneda You'll see it in Madame H.P. Blabatsky Where people will Create a mythos Not necessarily a falsehood But it will sound a mysterious teacher

And talk about this person As their Path of learning personified In the same way that we'll talk about God's personified You know, we'll identify a certain energy And say that's Athena, that's Zeus That's Minerva, that's Set So it could be that

Or it could be that the people Who make a literal reading are absolutely correct That Abdullah was a real flesh and blood man Certainly they would argue that Well, okay, this is a different podcast Where I feel two possible directions Forming. One of them is I want to talk to you about

My feeling when I've been listening to it Which is like, oh, this is one of those mystery school Transmissions where they decided that it's like Okay, illuminate the masses They're ready for this information And I keep thinking like Oh, yeah, somebody's Like letting him be the mouthpiece

Of a thing that is Definitely People have been sort of Sealing it but I don't know, I just get a sense of like Abdullah makes sense to me just based on my hippie intuition Yes But that's a different conversation

The mystery schools and the people that come from them I want to talk about The philosophy itself But before we get into that I want to talk about your personal Connection to Neville Because it seems like he has been a huge influence On you and clearly you're inspired by him

Because you wrote an entire book on him About books that Cover what would a new thought Ancient wisdom Neville is at the heart of many of them And I have a tattoo of Neville On my left arm, you know, he's kind of Yeah, he's the primary figure

In my life I first discovered him back in 2003 I was interviewing the MLB pitcher Barry Zito Who at the time was pitching for the San Francisco Giants Barry pitched for both the A's and the Giants

And Barry identified Neville among Other sources as a core part Of his training regimen, core part of his life He had been exposed to Neville by his parents And in the conversation He said you must really be into this guy And I had never heard the name Because when Neville died in 72

And for many years after He was a really underground figure He didn't really fit within the new thought tradition He wasn't categorizable in any Specific way He couldn't be grouped with any school or thought system He was completely original And as such, people

Just didn't hear of him And he was a mystery man, they didn't know Was he black? Was he white? Was he still living? Who is this Abdullah? And I immediately went out And got one of Neville's books called Resurrection Which he wrote in 66 1966

And I just fell into it I went all the way down the rabbit hole And part of the reason Neville's thought system Had something to do with him as a figure I mentioned his writing And how elegant and simple and beautiful it is But there's also hundreds of his lectures

Preserved online Because he would permit people grateful dead style To freely tape record his lectures Which later became digitized And the man speaks With such a beautiful Resonant Melifluous voice

It's like nothing you've ever heard He speaks extemporaneously Without notes, he could hold forth For 90 minutes in a lecture Citing scripture as if from out of the ether And he just has this beautiful voice That you could call it soothing But it's at the same time arousing

And awakening He looked like a movie star The man just looked like a matinee idol Like a Carrie Grant And yet he very rarely permitted photos To be taken of him There's just one or two professional photographs Bopping around the internet

Few other snapshots here and there And it's so different from our time Where everybody's documenting every third thing They do today And Neville, he looked like a movie star He spoke with this beautiful clipped Mid-Atlantic accent And yet

There were very few instances Where he sat for professional photos He self-published his books He allowed his lectures to be freely taped He had no business apparatus behind him What's different is that from us today Every yoga teacher has this Massive business apparatus

At his or her back And Neville was just a troubadour He had none of that So there was something about the man himself That bespoke sincerity to me He seemed to be living out something That was intrinsic in his teachings I very often enter people's ideas

First through their persona My informal rule is Show me the person first Then I want to know what's at the back Of his or her life And I fell into his life And I concurrently fell into his teaching And I came to feel

That there was in Neville This radical sense Of mystical possibility Epic self-potential A liberating sense Of self-responsibility Not a narrow self-responsibility But a deeply liberating

And freeing sense of self-responsibility And I think when people are facing Stresses or difficulties in life And they meet the teaching Of this man who says You truly have it in you At this very moment To revolutionize everything in your life

Through your own thoughts Because you are God It is so Inviting It's such a resplendent possibility That unless a person is completely closed off Or completely materialist It's hard to resist not experimenting

And the experiments Work And they work fast And they work so fast That makes your head spin sometimes It's amazing And there can also be a gestation period Where you

As you get into Neville You begin to identify things About your surroundings About your relationships About your career life And antecedents From earlier parts of your life So vividly that it can be jarring

I mean, I'm living out experiences today At the age of 53 That so closely Comport to things that I was thinking about From my earliest childhood Literally going back to age 3 Age 4 That it's uncanny

So there can also be this gestation period And suddenly your life seems to have symmetry For the first time This brings me to just where I wanted to land Because I knew I would go to Agape church And listen to Beckwith He's inspired by many of these teachers

But I never Heard In this particular Pool of wisdom This idea of revising Your past Now, this is What made my brain pop

Because he does in this book He starts talking about the 5th dimension He starts talking about This concept that we're in a frame of time But the past is continuing At this very moment It's a living past And the formation of the past

As it is living now Is shaping your present And nobody That I know Is thinks that they can change the past The closest analog That you find to that way of thought Actually comes from some of the classical quantum physicists

Including Erwin Schrodinger And Hugh Everett Who theorized the many worlds thesis These men in the 1930s 1940s 1950s Way before quantum physics became popularized Way before its language had entered the zeitgeist

They were writing something Concurrent to Neville That was very close to his philosophy Schrodinger theorized That if you were In his great Schrodinger's cat experiment If you could extrapolate What we're seeing in the particle world

Into our physical world Into our everyday above ground macro world You would be not only selecting The localization of particles But you would be selecting a past For those same particles The decision to look Or the decision not to look

Actually creates a multi-dimensional effect It's not as simple as saying Well gee, this thing exists in a potential And now it exists in fact Because I looked Yes, that much is true So we're determining From experiments in the particle lab

80 years of experiments But it's also true that you'd be creating a past For the particle Based on when you choose to look If you choose not to look If you look after lunch or before lunch So if you think about it You are recreating existence

Every time you Experience a shift in perspective A Pre-conception, an emotionalized thought Every time you make a decision Every perception in and of itself Brings with itself a whole dimension Of experience

The particle theorists Were writing about this From the perspective of quantum mechanics Neville was writing about this From the perspective of his own mystical experience He and they Were saying essentially the same thing Without knowing one another

Without ever being in the same room with one another Without reading one another And Neville created the greatest mystical Analog that we have To quantum physics And as you were saying Neville would point out that every time You are

Engaging In an act of mental creation You are not only selecting Present and future circumstances But by the very Dint of what you are doing You are selecting past circumstances as well And you can not only revise your past

But we are doing it all the time We are doing it all the time We don't sense it because we walk around thinking Well gee, I just walked from point A to point B I get it, I have a memory of being at point A It is perfectly symmetrical It is perfectly rational But Neville would say is it

Is it because your so-called memory Of point A Is based on where you are at point B Right now There are infinite possibilities Reality is in a state of superposition In the sense of In the infinitude as it exists

There are endless pasts Just as there are endless futures Just as there are endless presents So your memory of point A In a sense is just a construct And you are invited to revise it If you wish But the implication of this is so wild

In the sense that right now Our experience Theoretically could be us In some future reality Revising Our past Absolutely, absolutely And I would even say this

I would say to your listeners Mitch and Duncan are not even here You the listener You're here, you're here You're listening to Mitch and Duncan But we are just projections Of your own thought system It may just be that you were

Intellectually prepared to arrive At this material, at this particular moment In your existence, and so in effect You've created Mitch and Duncan Who seem vivid, who seem real And we are just a Construct emanating from your own thoughts Bringing you

To this information, but it's yours You're the creator Mitch actually, if you could see him right now Is an eagle and I'm a little snake So dig that Thank you for creating us Thank you for selecting us I often tell people

In new thought settings People use the word manifest all the time That's not quite my term The term I use is select Because I think that's more vivid We are selecting, if everything is In existence, if reality Is an infinitude

Which William Blake told us Which Erwin Schrodinger told us So many other great mystics and scientists Through history have told us If reality is an infinitude It's not so much that the individual Is manifesting so much as selecting And the tools for selection

The tools for selection Are our own emotionalized thoughts And mental pictures, what are those But tools of measurement? Holy shit But it's, and again For me, I wouldn't even be talking About this if I hadn't been

Figurously applying it over the last Month or so And seeing results that are Beyond astounding And one of the things I like about Neville Is that he gives examples Like real quick, and I'm going to give A real quick one, and I was wondering

If you could give one as well So as I've been listening to this Basically one of his, I don't remember Which book it is, I'm listening to this audio Book compilation, I can't wait to read Your breakdown of it So what I'm reading right now is Talking about wishing

Harm or good On someone else, and one of The things he says is If you give someone the gift Of wishing a thing upon them And they don't accept it Then the gift will be returned to you He has a reciprocity in his teaching

People always say, gee the problem With all this new thought stuff Is that it's an ethical free for all To try to be wishing stuff Into somebody else's life Or what happens when a bad guy gets hold Of this, and I honor that concern Although I would also say the materialists

Need to have that concern too We're making ethical decisions all the time This just broadens the sense of playing field But Neville has a teaching Of cosmic reciprocity so to speak In which if I wish Something for you Duncan And it's something that Duncan is

Incapable of wishing for another In other words, if it's something generous But Duncan doesn't wish things that are generous Or if it's something negative And Duncan doesn't want to wish things that are negative For another, it comes back to me the sender For good or ill, so we got To deal with the whole of life

These teachings are not just an ethical free for all And his invitation is You need to become a Really focused gardener Of the ecosystem of your thoughts Because if you're wishing ill Even in the most subtle way Up on a person who doesn't accept that

Who sees themselves as Not someone who's an asshole Like you think they are That asshole projection goes bouncing Right back into you And then it can make you go around limping Which is why a lot of times when you meet people who gossip They're not doing very well

Boom! You know, dude You just affirmed my belief in one universal mind Because I thought to myself Literally that instant I gotta make a point about gossip Anything is more deteriorative Of the human condition Than gossip. It's horrible

Anything that we say in the negative About another individual And it doesn't mean not calling out injustice It doesn't mean abstaining from saying Hey, there's something wrong here that needs to be fixed But that kind of gossip that's nothing but trash talk That kind of gossip that's nothing but a smear For entertainment value

Or what have you That deteriorates our lives immeasurably Because we are engaging In active reciprocity Those effects become In a sense, it's self-description It's self-description And I always tell people

That the number one thing you can do To improve your life This instant is to desist from gossip And if you practice that for one hour You will stand more erect You will feel more noble You will feel more at ease Everybody's always out there in the world saying

What can I do? What can I do? Hang on to this Desist from gossip and rumor for 60 minutes See what happens to you And if you do find yourself gossiping Look at the way you feel It's the grossest feeling I used to go to lunch with somebody

And I would always have these mixed feelings about it Because she was a friend But I would always get lured Into this long Gossipy meal that would go on For two and a half hours And I'd feel physically sick at the end of it I'd feel sick. That was not imaginary

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So, within this sort of Wishing Well for other people Wishing Well for your People who you might have some Disconnect from or some weirdness with Because he would say I think, and correct me if I'm wrong That weirdness you're experiencing

You're creating the weirdness So, I started Working with Somebody that I've felt I've considered I don't know, that person, I don't think they really like me Or there's some weird shit there And then I just

I think, that person Really liking me And us being friends and things being cool And sure as shit I saw him the next day We never talked He came walking up to me Gave me some really nice compliments

Was really kind to me And I tried not to like Stammer In amazement because it was like the day before I'd been doing this exercise I mean, we're talking Years maybe go by That I don't talk to this person

Do you know what I mean? I do, and Neville would always say That if you have friction in the world Leave the world alone Leave the other person alone and just look in the mirror Just keep coming back to the mirror Don't try to change the other The world is nothing but myself pushed out

Look in the mirror And again, there's something so liberating About it because instead of changing Mike or trying to persuade Mike of my point of view I can Withdraw into the recesses of my own psyche And work out whatever needs

Working out That's the teaching It's so crazy, and just the Strange relief that I've been going back and spending time With People who I've hurt In those moments

Living out those moments as though I wasn't selfish Wasn't angry Looking at my mom before she passed In a way that I wasn't lost In the fear of her dying And it does produce Almost instantaneous I'm not saying external change

But a sense of That's how you forgive yourself You don't forgive yourself by being like Okay, I forgive me now You go back and revise You go back and revise And Neville would also say to people That there are sometimes these gestation periods

Sometimes there's a time interval And he had an expression In assumption, though false If persisted in Will concretize into fact In assumption, though false If persisted in will concretize into fact And he would say, look

We see in the natural world A chick takes 30 days to hatch A baby, a human baby 9 months, a horse 11 months, a goat, 6 months So sometimes there will be a time interval And he would say, you know Just let that be, let that be

If you wish to be in Paris And you wake up and you find you're still In your old circumstances That may feel disappointing and that is understandable But just stay with it Because this gestation period Sometimes just has to be abided Oh, wow, man

Only just because another of the things I've been visualizing is taking my wife to Paris No way! How wonderful! Wow! We're getting it all done! Can you tell me an example Of working with this philosophy here? Oh, sure. I find that

For me personally, sometimes The results seem fairly Instant and sometimes, as I was referencing There are these gestation periods I had an instance recently Where I sat for A shoot with a certain photographer

A really, really great photographer Who a friend had hooked me up with And the photographer showed me One of the contact sheets From what he was working on And the pictures were Exactly something Exactly something, the very scene

That I had imagined Myself being in when I was 20 years old I remember it as vividly as The fingers on my hand And I have a lot of instances Like that in life where Sometimes time will pass

And I determine this unbelievable Symmetry. I want to share Something intimate with you and your listeners And this is heavy Because it's disclosing of something personal But at the same time, it's important to be blunt When I was a little kid I mentioned memories going back to

My earliest years Of forming cognizant Long-term memories. So say When I was very, very young, even 4 years old 5 years old I might be playing a game with the kids in my neighborhood Like boys play war games And things like that. War is fun, right?

So we all like to play that game And while my friends and I Were engaged in this war game Silently Without telling them, without disclosing them I was playing along Doing all the stuff everybody else was doing But I was imagining myself actually

As an actor in a movie In a war movie with the camera on me And I would even imagine that The sandbox and things like that That we were playing in was like a movie set And that was My earliest wish at that age For whatever reason

That's what I did. That was my fantasy life And it took Years and years and years But I am at mid-life today So-called living out On camera, in front of Microphones, in front of audiences All the things that I was imagining

When I was a little kid I was never playing the game I was playing an actor in the game Neville was an actor himself and he said We're all Thespians, we're all actors And I'm living That out in my life today After many, many twists and turns

And I find myself living Exactly the life that occupied My earliest memories and fantasies And I get chills sometimes over it It's like, well it is like that Because you know we're sort of Where this goes to To me is

I get The other day as I'm listening to this I had this thought, like oh my god It's not that They're going to invent a time machine It's that we are The time machine. Absolutely Absolutely

Time travel Understood from this perspective as a mental act And we're engaging in it all the time In fact, when we have Those little fantasies, we like to play these Therapeutic games with ourselves What would I say to my younger self If I could travel back and give counsel

To myself at age 12, age 13 Seen from this perspective We're doing that constantly So be careful, be careful Because we're doing that constantly If linear time is an illusion And I think we can say that at this point In the 21st century

Linearity is a very necessary illusion For five sensory beings We know that time bends So to speak at light speed Bends in circumstances of extreme gravity Everyone accepts that The implications of that are a different story We accept the data

We don't accept the implications If time is An illusion, if linearity is a Necessary illusion Then everything is going on at once And our sensory Organs are nothing other Than tools of measurement

Just like the tools used in the quantum lab So to say I'm going to go back To my younger self, that's literally real It would have to be It follows that it would have to be Wow, it's so wild Because what we're looking at here Is the time machine

Learning how to operate itself And so we're seeing a kind of If you were building a time machine If Then somewhere along the course Of the things forming And maybe the time machine would be like The improbability drive in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

So improbable that it would come into existence That it came into existence That's what it does, but in this case It would almost be working its way Even though we're saying time is one thing From our perspective, it's growing From the future back into the past Exactly, exactly

And that means that we're at the point where It's just gaining enough sentience To begin to dial in To not just measure, but to dial in coordinates So to speak Exactly, beautifully put To your listeners Everybody out there who's listening right now

I want you to please think of the time When you first learned to ride a bicycle Just hold a mental picture of when you first learned To ride a bicycle When you first felt that you were riding without the training wheels You felt the handlebars, boom Everybody has a mental picture of that And everybody is certain, yep

That's precisely what happened, is it? You may have created that right now at this instant Right now at this instant As vivid and as real as the chairs were seated on Again, man, I love being around I don't want to I like being around people who do this kind of work Okay

I do too Me too It's always Again, I don't mean to keep doing it I think it was day before yesterday I was just thinking about my dad Teaching me How to ride my bike

Yeah, it's crazy, right? Yeah, it's funny, it's just really curious May I share a very quick story Just about how time gets All mixed up and everything? Very, very quick I'm really interested in The band, The Monkeys

I have all these crazy, crazy synchronicities with The Monkeys Just the other day I was in Kansas City I ran into Mickey Dolan's from The Monkeys Who was totally chill and nice and lovely And About two years ago Just out of the fucking blue I start getting into the music of The Monkeys

And everybody around me is like Fuck, what's wrong with you? Like, why are you so into The Monkeys? And I'm like going full throttle on The Monkeys I'm reading biographies, doing this, doing that And okay, this was in the summer Come October I get this call

From an editor at The Washington Post And he said, we have been trying to find you And I'm like, why am I so hard to find? And he said, your email's not working, something's going wrong Anyway, he said, do you know Michael Nesmith from The Monkeys? And I said, well, I know of him, of course And he said, do you know Mike Nesmith Has been

Over the course of his life a Christian scientist And I said, no, no, I didn't know that And he said, do you know him personally? And I said, no And he said, do you know he just wrote a memoir? No, would you like to review it? And I was like, well, you know, fuck yes Nesmith writes this memoir called Infinite Tuesday, which is really

Brilliant and wonderful about Among other things, about time loops About the non-existence of linearity And all of this came to me In this kind of seemingly backwards way Where I had cultivated this crazy Interest in The Monkeys And then months later, the editor

Comes to me and invites me to review Nesmith's memoir, Infinite Tuesday Which is a great book And I was already so prepped So prepared, so ready to go I was almost embarrassed to tell my editors Over the post, I wrote the review In 24 hours because

It was like a whole universe Of Prep had already come to me Months prior, and I Put all this in the review and to their Credit, they kept it in the review You don't find like a lot of psychedelic Philosophy necessarily in the book review

Session of the post, but there it was And, you know, so it was a case In which there was such symmetry And there was such A sense of Time just being in this state Of what he calls Infinite Tuesday Not a past, present, and future

But one great superposition Whole, just one story I wanted to share Whoa, it's It's, you know Well, again There's a lot of places my mind wants to go But I do want to sort of ground it In some questions I did have for you

Please. Okay, so One of, I'm Simultaneously listening to In Love with the World By Ming-gyu Rinpoche Which he's a, it's a great book He's a Tool-ku who

Snuck out of his Monastery and went and lived the life of a Beggar for, I think, three or five years This is an extra treat or whatever It's really good, but Because my main At least for last year, my main focus has been Like

Some Vajrayana Buddhism, some Chogyam Trumpa I've been trying to Bridge these two philosophies Buddhism and whatever you would call this Yeah. And I've run into I don't want to say a problem with Buddhism because that is so audacious

And obviously that's my problem Not Buddhism's problem, but maybe you could Help me with this particular As I feel stuck Goddard's philosophy Which I love Is liberating and also self-directed Yes. Whereas

It feels like in Buddhism And some other philosophies Like Meister Eckhart Christian Mysticism Yeah. We find a place Of Thy will be done. Yes. A disconnect from the self And kind of just let this be

As it is and learn to accept it As it is. Don't worry About forming your desires Into time and space Because that's just going to cause more suffering Anyway. Don't get in the way Of the Pin of the divine

That fights your life on the page of time Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't fuck it up, man. It's doing, it's perfect as it is But what I love about Goddard is He isn't saying that. He's like, no you are writing the book Yeah. Write what you want So can you make these two things work Or are they just, is my analysis

Correct? Is that what's going on? I think your analysis is correct And I've been in that particular place Myself. There were times actually where I felt torn in two by my dedication to Neville and my dedication To a philosophy that might be Annunciated as, I will be done

Because Neville's philosophy And this can push some people's buttons Is really my will be done Neville would say that your desires Are sacred. Your desires are prophecy Your desires should never Be neglected because they are The voice of God itself

That voice being your own Human imagination Neville would say there is no God Other than your own wonderful Imagination. And his system does have An ethical reciprocity A cosmic reciprocity So it's not as if it just gives the individual

Cart Blanche to do unto others Because whatever you're doing unto others By definition in his philosophy You're doing unto self But he would say that Your desires are the voice Of God speaking to you And that these things are not to be resisted

He would also say that Desire satisfaction Is only one element of his philosophy The whole point of all this Mental causation is to eventually Become acquainted with yourself Because as you discover The creative capacities of your mind

That's a necessary doorway Through which you begin to discover Your own true identity Your own sacred identity And that as you pass through this world of Caesar And you experience all kinds Of things and maybe get all kinds Of goodies or what have you

Eventually, eventually Those things are just detritus Those things are only necessary stepping stones To realizing the nature Of your own true self Which is God or Christ Closed in human flesh as he would put it And that's to me is the scary part

I gotta admit it, this is where it gets scary And in this type of Buddhism There's dream yoga You've heard of this, the concept of dream yoga? I haven't, tell me about this I'm gonna give you this book The idea of Sleep and dreaming and sleep

And so This is a practice that Is similar to Some of the Teachings of God What's the western astral projection You wrote journeys out of the body You know what I'm talking about?

I know it, I can't summon it I'll put in the link friends It's a great book if you want to learn how to lucid dream But within the techniques of lucid dreaming A lot of us have heard Set your timer every 10 minutes And then look around and ask yourself If you're in a dream

And then when you're dreaming you've conditioned yourself And you're gonna look around in the dream Like oh fuck I'm dreaming And then within that space you can fly You can walk through walls, you can do true miracles In a dream state The difference in the Tibetan yoga of dreaming and sleep Is it says begin to recognize

That you're in a dream right now And it's not an intellectual exercise It's no, this This is a dream And you begin to As part of this yoga and it's so The author of this book is so emphatic About this

That he has to leave a note at the end of the chapter About that which is like don't jump off a building Don't go nuts It's that level of like you are in a dream Right now And then when you do that You'll notice focus happens You don't get

A dreamy, you get really In the moment and things get very clear So this The reason that There's to me something that's a little terrifying About what Neville Goddard is talking about Is that that gestation period That you're talking about seems to be

More of a self-imposed Gestation period Because we aren't ready yet For the big reveal The big lifting of the veil Boom, beautifully put And I would add An exercise of Neville's

That relates to lucid dreaming I might call it cognizant dreaming Neville's method prescribes Entering in To a state of mental creativity Just in those few moments before you drift off To sleep at night This is what sleep researchers call the hypnagogic state

And it's a very special supple state Of mind because when you're Hovering between wakefulness And sleep You're in a kind of dream-like hallucinatory state Reality seems to morph and bend You can hear noises But you're still cognizant

You still have some control over your attention And as Neville put it, that is prime time For mental creativity And that if you can induce yourself Into that drowsy state In between sleep and wakefulness We all enter it naturally twice a day Just as we're falling asleep at night

And just as we're coming to in the morning Neville would do it through a nap He would take it 3pm each afternoon When you're in that so-called hypnagogic state That is the state Of real mental fertility And sleep researchers As well as serious psychological researchers

Have identified that as prime time For self-suggestion For the occurrence of ESP-related activities Neville just had this natural instinct That that was a time In which the mind was uniquely supple The great French mind theorist Emile Couet made this point as well

And I think Emile Couet was a great influence On Neville in his written work So you can just Go into this naturally Meditative drowsy state You do twice a day anyway And you can direct your attention Within this dream-like world

But you still have cognizant control It relates sort of to lucid dreaming And Neville felt that is The greatest platform That we possess Of being time of day that we possess For engaging in mental creativity He would say use that time

To picture yourself in a certain Scene that you want to be in Don't see the scene as if it's up on a movie screen But see yourself in it Like maybe someone shaking your hand and congratulating you Or maybe if you want to be married Feeling a wedding ring on your finger Or saying I do with the altar

Feel yourself in the scene Repeated as many times as it feels natural And then drift off to sleep The great tool, it's not the only tool But the greatest tool that we possess For mental creativity And he really Really means feel yourself

In that place It's not an intellectual thing You have to be like Literally be there You have to jump into that place And to me what within his Philosophy And it does coincide with

My rudimentary explorations of quantum physics Is the implication That there is a Way to evade death As sentient as possible That you could theoretically drop Your entire Dream life

And open your eyes and be in whatever The alchemical laboratory Of the divine that we're currently Apparently inebriated on fumes From a beaker with a blue in our face Or whatever it is You could theoretically You could just wake up

And this is the most controversial Area of Neville's teachings And it's one that I've sat with for a long time As a student, including as a critical student Because Look If one accepts this mystical Quantum model

That all of reality is in a state of superposition Then you'd have to argue That birth, death, everything Every passage of life is in superposition And that death is just an experience Death is just a perception And that sounds very high and mighty Of me seated in front of a

Microphone To say death is just a perception But this is where I stop And I say to my Friends within the new age culture My friends within the new thought culture Go visit a children's cancer ward Before you start expounding on this idea

Of death being just a perception Be very, very careful with that Because I would also contend That we experience many laws and forces And we experience them with such Vividness and such Absolute tactile reality That I think we fail

Sometimes to underestimate When we start to get very exuberant About some of these things The position of great disadvantage That we as five sensory beings Can find ourselves in If I were to step my toe on a table Right now, I would feel pain

My body undergoes changes We all experience physical decline We all experience death Any sensitive person Has witnessed death In an atmosphere Of great support and love and sensitivity I don't believe

And I say this as someone who loves Neville And I say this as a lifelong student of Neville I don't believe Neville gave Sufficient weight to the Disadvantage that we men and women Have to always Engaging in this world of

Mental creation Mental causation We experience tremendous barriers And we experience laws and forces That can be overwhelming And Proper gravity Must be given to that fact

Proper gravity must be given to that fact It's all well and good that I can talk about Death As just a perception But how dare I talk about that On a cancer ward Or someplace where a life has been snuffed out Even in an atmosphere

Of support and sensitivity and love We live under many Or I shall say we experience Many laws and forces And if a person doesn't bow To that I think they are leaving out an enormous part Of life that has to be contended with

I want to play Devils I hate that term I want to play somebody's advocate Somebody's advocate I don't know who it is When I've been around dying people And I'm lucky because I have been around

People who have had good deaths Something really beautiful seems To be happening Now children's ward of a hospital We both have kids I can barely think about that It's Unbearable

But when you're in that moment It does kind of seem like To you You're seeing a thing die To this thing It's just putting the body down And this is again By the way guys

I don't think I'm going to live forever Anyone's going to live forever But To get into the quantum Physics thing that I read Which is you are going to know more about They were talking about quantum computers And they were saying that

Actually the implication in some of this stuff Is you really don't die Your consciousness leaps over into some parallel universe The onion skin And you just keep going And whatever thing it pops over to This does seem to Live it well with the

Tibetan Buddhists The bardo-thought-all The concept of in the bardo-state There is a potential to direct Your Liminal astral Whatever the hell that momentum is That's floating through there into your next birth

Into Something that is Special to that state Versus human existence To me I think There isn't a chance here Even in the children's ward of the hospital What you're witnessing

If we're going to go full Snorting full lines of pure goddards In that children's hospital You're looking at The part of the multiverse You're hanging out in right now You're seeing that place But you theoretically

Could upshift that To being not a hospital anymore To being some kind of futuristic Healing place And then you could upshift that one more time To a convergence of souls And upshift that one more time Until finally you're back in that

Pure, unitive consciousness state Where the entirety of all of this is like Snow in a snow globe Yes, absolutely And I think that's well put I would add a couple of things to that People could be asking right now Well gee, as Neville's saying

That there's no one else here In consciousness He did teach That there are other people here But we crisscross through one another's Dreams of life In this way that summons Or enlists us

And vice versa in infinite directions Whenever the individual's Dream of life so requires So he would say that Mitch passes through Duncan's life In this crisscrossing way In this intimate Infinite

Superposition universe that we live in Mitch has his own existence Mitch has his own dream of life Mitch has his own feelings But Mitch will crisscross into Duncan's existence Into the experience of Duncan's listeners At given moments in life We're all God

We're all clothed in human flesh We all possess this creative capacity But There's a multitudinous expression To this intelligence In a certain sense, yes When I'm in this children's ward This is where I am

This individual is just crisscrossing through my life At this given moment I have ultimate power He has ultimate power And then this teaching gets into The most delicate territory When questions of death and suffering are involved Because sometimes Neville would make

Reference and other people loosely In his tradition like Joseph Murphy Who said he shared Neville's teacher Abdullah Talked about this in an interview With a French journalist Towards the end of his life of all things Neville would make reference on occasion Murphy would make reference on occasion

To everybody leaving life at just the chosen time Just the right time and I push back against that I push back against that because I haven't verified it And when I speak of self verification And one hears this sometimes in a hypocritical way On the spiritual path, you know, people tell you Verify it for yourself

And then in essence what they're really saying is If you come to the same conclusion I have Then come back, you know But until you do I'll argue with you And say you don't get it If we're going to talk in terms of self verification We have to be absolute with that My experience has been

There are people who Undergo death and suffering and illness And that is not self selected And that throws us back on the heels Of some very heavy questions about the laws and forces That we live under Or that we experience Not to be trifled with, you know

One could say for example That the force of gravity is ever operative It's a universal law But you're going to experience gravity differently Here on earth and you will on the moon or on Jupiter And in space you'll experience its vacuum Even though It's still there and it's still operative

Gravity is affected by mass In a certain sense gravity is really mass Being attracted to itself It could be that with this law of mental causation We are affected Circumstantially It could be there different circumstances That interrupt

Temper color condition Our experience of mental causation Because I have not been able To verify This ultimate self selected nature Of life to the point where The child him or herself who's Diseased or who doesn't have clean drinking

Water is exiting life Under chosen Circumstances or under circumstances You know, cosmically symmetrical I don't believe that Because I haven't experienced that And I ask people To

Respect this Principle of self verification To the extent that we not talk about experiences We haven't had I haven't been through war I haven't been through 9-11 I haven't been through these human catastrophes I want to hear from people who have

And I bow to them I love your critique of it And honestly, as I'm sitting here thinking Why did I have to get into the implications Of this being eternal life and ascension For me, way more pragmatic To talk about what's happening now Which hopefully we are in a place

Where we need to worry about ascending So This brings me to Well, something I wanted to say earlier Which is like You were saying you're in your 50s You look great You're vibrant

You're healthy You clearly are taking really good care of yourself You have some kind of exercise regimen You know, it's crazy man I mean, I thank you for saying all that I don't take as good a care of myself As you might think I drink

I smoke I do recreational drugs I definitely do that I don't sleep And so I feel very blessed And I feel very fortunate And I feel very grateful, you know To you for saying that

But it's not as if I am some sort of fitness vulture I mean, I do take care of myself In the sense that I do exercise I do bicycle and all that jazz But I, it's the craziest thing Duncan, I have experienced This sense of youthful exuberance in my 50s I feel better

I look better I enjoy life more than I did in my 20s It's crazy Say of it what you will You're definitely not a vulture, you're an eagle You're a fitness eagle And I, right So that's an interesting point

But for me, what I've been As part of this experiment I have been getting up at 4am every morning And going to exercise And I've been doing it consistently Within reason, when there's like You know, when I'm exhausted

You can really fuck yourself up by not getting enough sleep But for me This has been Equivalent to levitation In other words, the gravitational Hold of my Subjective Limitations

Is keeping me trapped inside a specific type of body And so The practice, this Goddard stuff Aside from like the weird coincidences Has resulted in like A consistent Workout for the last month More than I have ever been consistent

In my entire life And so to me, that is the ascension And that is the as above so below So again, we cannot, in the same way that Like we can't talk About what it's like to be On Saturn, for example But we can use our understanding

Of physics here And our, you know Now our telescopic ability Black holes colliding Well, hopefully we're never going to experience that If we do, we're gone Right, right, right But we can still use

Our understanding of physics here Where we are in the galaxy In the universe To understand what that would look like Even what it might feel like Even what it might sound like and smell like So similarly to me It's like, fuck, if I can literally

Recode My behavior patterns By starting in my mind Connecting to a version of me That's healthier than I am right now Becoming that person I was doing this at the gym and the When I first started it, looking at myself

And having that First thing where I'm like, fuck man, dammit You really let yourself go And then replacing that with Seeing through myself In that form Into my completely healthy form And now I'm watching my body

Start changing into that And it is astounding Because nothing else has gotten Has really worked like that before So if that can happen With the physical body In the sense your thoughts can Literally change your body vessel

Then the implication is just Crazy We're talking true levitation We're talking walking through walls I'm doing it again, I'm sorry Mitch We're talking all the shit you hear About gurus doing translocation And all that stuff

You know I would say this Never neglect The means, the channels of arrival For whatever it is that you're interested in Some people could say, well gee Duncan Of course you look great because you've been working out That's simple right, we get it Well it's not so simple because

There are always going to be different means And different channels of arrival I have wished for things including very intimate things That I have received But sometimes the means might come Through different ways, look we live in this world Of experiences as I've repeatedly said We experience many laws and forces

If you wish for a house It ain't going to be like jack and the bean stock Where you throw the beans out the window And the vine or the house grows But it could be that your friend Mike says to you Oh shit I've just been working a Contracting job on this killer house You have to come take a look at it

It wouldn't be natural To sit in a room and say, no thanks Mike I don't need to look at it because the house Is just going to appear Honor the channels of arrival Honor the channels of arrival It might come in a multitude of ways Some of them very ordinary

But the ordinary can lead to extraordinary There's all these myths through religious tradition In every faith That gods or angels or deities Will come disguised as strangers And the person who invites in the stranger And is hospitable to him Will be granted great rewards

How often do we neglect gods and angels Who are disguised as strangers Because that's too ordinary That's too ordinary It can't arrive that way It can't arrive in a pill It can't arrive through some ordinary procedure Well of course it can

Fuck that's heavy man I never, oh my god I feel so dumb The other thing Goddard's doing is The invitation to Goddard out says there wasn't a Jesus This is a psychological process There is no historic Christ

We're talking about outside of you Yes Neville makes the point He argues that there's no Historiography whatsoever in scripture There's not a word in scripture that's historical It's all a psychological blueprint And I have to say this also

Is where I serve as a critical student of Neville's Because there are some Areas of scripture old and New Testament That really lend themselves well To a symbolical reading But the book of Chronicles for example Is just a recitation of generations It's really very dry reading

And again In the name of self verification I have read scripture I have spent a long, long time I had an Orthodox Bar Mitzvah I have read Old Testament I have read New Testament And I can assure you

There are passages that do not Lend themselves to the same kind Of symbolical Analysis That others do And sometimes May the purists forgive me Sometimes I feel that Neville would cherry pick from scripture

I get that sits Okay great It's okay because I can like correct For that but honor the channels Of arrival Does this diverge a little bit from Neville's philosophy Because he would say things like

Once you've done this thing where you become That which you wish To be The person who lives in that house Or the person who has that form He doesn't say worry about it He says that's it You're done, you did it

He does say that, you're absolutely right He says you're done, you did it As soon as you're in the feeling state The reality is accomplished And that's the end of the variable Because it will unfold in its own perfectly natural Wonderful way And I think you can find in Neville's work

If he doesn't say this explicitly He certainly says it implicitly We live in the world of Caesar And we have to honor that I have a friend who is the head Of a midsize industrial firm in the Midwest And this is where this Neville stuff is wonderful Because you can become friends with everyone

Conservative dude with a crew cut Who drinks beer, smokes cigars Really intimate friends And he says to me, listen Nobody I work with knows I'm into this Neville stuff And I have a board of directors To whom I have to answer And they want a business plan

I know the business plan because I understand Mental creativity But these dudes need from me Pieces of paper, so what should I do And I said honor them, man You live in a world of Caesar I live in a world of Caesar Give those guys what they need

And behind what's going on Honor Caesar, but you know the engine of creation Okay, let me stop you there, this is actually I'm so glad you're bringing this up Because I've heard, and maybe I misunderstood I think I read Crowley saying If magic works for you If you have a successful

If it works, then you have to Say out loud Did I misunderstand? And also the denial of Christ Is equivalent to this Which is like if you're using This incredible philosophy And it's working for you

That you say that it's the paper Isn't it a disservice? Isn't it a... Well, he says it to me And I quote him in my books, albeit anonymously So that other people can Rock to this and learn from it But I think Neville would probably say

Based on the parables of Scripture Don't cast your pearls before swine Render unto Caesar what is Caesar If there's somebody who's going to throw rocks at you Because they don't dig it Don't talk about it in front of the rock thrower Just leave the rock thrower to himself Do your thing and then tell your friend Mitch

But you don't have to tell your rock thrower That's cool And also it reminds me in the Bhagavad Gita It says don't disturb the minds Of people who aren't ready for this Let him be P. D. Uspensky, the great mathematician And Mystic said life is like a train yard

In which there's all these trains Going around and sometimes they're going crazy And they're going to bump into people They're going to bump into you Your job is not to fix broken machines But your job is to get out of their way Wow Get out of the way of the broken machine

While you're working on your machine Yeah This is my final question It's going to seem like I'm being obnoxious And trying to find some crazy similar question To me Another big takeaway from this is that There is the potential

For a global utopia World harmony That Shambhala or the mythical Cities are already existing Coordinates In this multiverse of the Goddard is talking about In a person's life even better

Than ascending And not dying You could theoretically somehow Drive your Awareness It's not manifesting It's selecting You could select a planet

Where there is harmony Where we have found a way to heal the planet Where there is a way to Drive your multiverse ship there Do you think that's possible? I would have to agree that it's possible Based on the implications of this law Neville said the lion

Lying down with the lamb Is literal fact And it will come to be fact in time But we as individuals Are far away from that We have to learn who we really are And as we learn who we really are And as we come to a true sense

Of our cosmic identity That world becomes fact That world becomes fact It may take the perception of many lifetimes But that world eventually Becomes fact because that's the nature Of where we emanate from Mitch

Thank you so much It is always just a And also, by the way, thank you That thing that's happened to me with this Regimented workout thing It's directly because of you You came through Noah Lamper You echoed through time

Wonderful And now you have a Peter Frampton t-shirt To wear with your new physique We love Peter Frampton Thank you Pleasure, man Magician of the Beautiful Now out on all the usual places

Is there a place you want to direct people to? You know, people can find the book Anyplace they buy books, they can find me At my website, mitchhorowitz.com Throw my name into Google, I'm easy to locate Thank you, sir Howdy, Krishna, thanks a lot Remember, it's our sweet sponsors

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