Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 360: Aubrey Marcus

Episode Date: November 10, 2019

Aubrey Marcus, the titan himself, CEO of Onnit, poet, businessman, and shaman made the dark transit from Venice to join the DTFH! This episode is brought to you by: Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site. Bombas - Visit bombas.com/duncan for 20% off your first purchase.

Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. -♪ It's my dirty little angel You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Beautiful children. We have got a zinger of an episode for you today. The Titan himself, Aubrey Marcus,

drove all the way from Venice to come do a podcast with me. The DTFH, and I got to tell you, somebody who comes from the west side to the east side in the middle of the day to hang out with me, I consider that person an eternal friend who I would die for. But regardless of whether or not he took that dark transit

from the west side to the east side of Los Angeles to be on my podcast, I'd die for Aubrey anyway, because he is an amazing human, and he's one of the, he's like psychic air freshener. You know, like he comes into your house and if there's any kind of darkness or stinking, malefic, sulfuric mist hanging around from your own selfish habituations,

then he kind of like, for a little while, he like banishes it. And that's my favorite kind of guest. So we're gonna jump right into this episode with Aubrey, but first, some quick business. My friends, I'm about to give you the name of a domain name that I've found that somehow has not been purchased yet.

And I don't get it, I don't know why, and usually I don't jump in to like fads or you know, like pop culture shit, but my God, I can't believe this domain name is available. If you're listening to this and you're in front of a computer, just dive to the computer and buy this domain name. I almost bought, I just almost bought it. I was like, do I give that away?

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And then when you're ready to launch, use offer code Duncan and you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you, Squarespace. Dear friends, are you interested in getting like blasted by the heart of the DTFH, the blood gurgle from the heart of the DTFH? Then head over to patreon.com forward slash DTFH.

I just uploaded October's hour long ramble thing. I'm a little late on it actually, but if you want to listen to me go on and on about, well, this particular one is like tuning your existence and comparisons between Inya and Hellflies and a variety of other stuff in there, I just let myself rip for an hour. So it definitely inevitably goes off the rails,

but I love doing it. No guests, just me, yeah, and if you're interested in that, there's tons of them sitting over there at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. I invite you to subscribe. And finally, my dear loves, we have got some new merch that's popping up over at the shop.

If you want to pick up some awesome DTFH slash crows milk related stuff for the holiday seasons, do me a favor, go to dunkitrustle.com and check out the shop. And as always, much thanks to those of you who continue to use our Amazon link at dunkitrustle.com. All right, enough of my shilling. We've got a wonderful episode for you here today.

Aubrey Marcus, the CEO of On It that produces one of my favorite supplements on planet Earth, Alphabrain. Aubrey Marcus is a combination mystic slash poet slash hardcore businessman slash shaman. And he's a really, really fascinating, charismatic, brilliant human. And I love spending time with him

in this particular conversation we had literally blew the top off of my skull. So get ready, strap in, and let's take a fast train ride into the heart of the glowing metaphysical sun that is Aubrey Marcus. Welcome to the DTFH, Aubrey Marcus. ["Welcome to the DTFH"]

["Welcome, welcome on you, that you are in heaven, shake and go, you do be blue, welcome to you." It's the dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle, dunkitrustle. Aubrey Marcus, welcome back to the DTFH. Dunkin' my brother. It's been too long, man. It has.

It's been so long in fact that like so much has happened to you, including something today that's pretty wild to hear from you. Because you're like one of the most vocal, polyamorous sex people out there. And it's nice, you have like a liberating take on sex. I think it's inspired a lot of people, probably helped a lot of people get past

some of their hang-ups. But today on Instagram, I read. You know what it reminds me of? I had an interesting encounter with like a drug dealer. I met him to buy some drugs. And he looked really great. Like he seemed like even exercising or something. Like, man, you look really great, what's going on?

And he's like, ah, stop doing drugs. It was like one of the most like absurd moments. We're like, oh really? So that's making you feel better, huh? All right, I'll take my drugs now. Anyway, anyway, your Instagram post is no more sex. Indefinitely, celibacy is, you're going celibate. What happened?

What's up? A lot of things have contributed to that. And yes, I have been very vocal about the open relationship of also very vocal about the repeated just kicks to the gut and the nuts and the pain and the struggle and the growth that comes from that. Cause the pressure creates the adaptation. But all of those moments of seeing somebody you love dearly

and the natural attachments and possessions and what needs for validation that you get from that person and watching them fall in love or sleep with somebody else and going through that and catalyzing all of that. I've shared, you know, really the ups and downs of this journey, but I do believe in a liberated, non-possessive sexuality. Yeah, sure.

You know, that is something that I definitely believe. But I also know that I've tracked in my own life and it goes back to this moment. I can remember this moment. I'm 21, I'm at the MGM Grand and they had a show called La Femme, which is based on the crazy horse burlesque show in Paris, which is like one of the best burlesque shows.

Beautiful girls, they're all like the same body type and it happens to be the exact body type that was like my ultimate fantasy as a 21 year old. And I'm sipping whiskey there by myself at this show and I'm looking at these girls and I go, I am going to do whatever the fuck it takes to be the type of guy that one of these women would want to date, like truly.

And that meant every category. That meant physically, that meant mentally, that meant, you know, conversationally, that meant financially, that meant in connect, you know, with the connections. I had everything that I had and that's been like a driving force in my life. Wait, was this prior to you getting like

in super good shape and becoming like? I was in fine, I was always in fine shape because I was a basketball player, but I was also like, I was also, didn't really have a real guide star at that point. So that one, so then I kind of adopted that Serena, there's a line from Serena, it was like when troubled with all of the myriad paths that I could take,

I decided to be admirable at everything. Okay, that's cool. And so I was like, fuck it, I'm just going to be as great as I can possibly be. And I think that contributed to honor this total human optimization idea, my own spiritual growth, but always writing, you know, and there's other purposes I have.

Obviously I love sharing everything that I learned and I love doing all of podcasts and everything that I have, which don't have a lot to do with this desire to be attractive, but with it has always been this motivation to get laid and like my whole life. And it's now gotten to the point where I've reached a level where I can comfortably say that I've found abundance in that category.

I bet. And it's been beautiful and I'm very, very fucking blessed, you know, like, but, and I think like the Buddha who was able to leave his palace walls because he'd had the feasts and he had the sex and he had all the things and he was like, I'm not happy. I can leave the palace walls and give all that up. If I hadn't been able to reach like a level of abundance,

I don't think I would have been able to go say, okay, now I'm ready to release it and see what else is there. Right. Well, yeah, this theme of leaving the palace is one of my, I love that in Buddhism that it's starts and whereas like Christianity starts in a manger, you could probably say, I don't know.

I don't know too much about Islam, but it does start in a cave. Like these two religions start in kind of what, not what you would consider to be a glamorous environment. Buddhism starts in the palace and ends in the forest or I guess you could say begins in the forest. That's when he gains his awakening, but that the deeper level of that to me is like,

what's your palace? What palace are you living in? And it's, and at some point, a palace is wonderful, but at some point, and I think this happened with the Buddha, you realize, oh shit, this is kind of a prison that looks like a palace because he had to sneak out. He didn't just make it out. He had to actually be a little tricky

to get out of that place. So this so does, isn't that a great model for any addiction or anything? It is, and I think also the path to get to your palace. Like I wonder if people who haven't achieved that thing that they really want, like if I would have never been able, let's say I just wouldn't have had the courage

or discipline or drive or motivation to actually be the guy that I pledged that I could be when I was sipping that whiskey. If I never was able to make it to the place where I was that guy, I don't know if I would have been ever able to leave the palace. I don't know if I would have ever been able

to transcend that need. I mean, I'm not giving it up forever. I'm just not like there's a permanent lifestyle change, but even right now, if I hadn't reached a certain level of abundance, I wouldn't have been able to give it up. And I think that's the same with money, and I think that's the same with sex,

and I think that's the same with success. Like until you actually kind of get the thing that you think will make you happy, the thing you think will bring you to heaven, and realize it doesn't, it's something much deeper and different than actually does, then you can't let it go. Well, yeah, man, I mean, unless you,

I think like if you have some great incarnation, you're very wise, very, very wise, then when you hear from someone, or multiple people, the classic statement, which is I'm telling you, that is not gonna make you happy, then you can hear that and be like, oh, okay. Then I'm not gonna try to achieve that thing. Do you think so though?

Cause I've never met that dude, or that girl, or that woman, or that man. It's rare. It's a rare thing. It's a rare thing to, most of us, most of us are like, shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No way.

Easy for you to say. Easy for you to say, you've got it all. Yeah. And so then you go for it, and that's a beautiful journey. It's a beautiful thing, and you try to achieve it, and then you get it, and then that's amazing. You think for a second, oh fuck, that guy was wrong. This is wonderful.

Totally, totally, this is it. Yeah. But we fucking did it. And then, but it doesn't last. It doesn't last. You start getting this repeating message, that repeating signal of like, oh no, this is more of a sand trap than a destination.

Very moist, lubricated sand trap. And also, and especially with sex, here we have a sand trap with a soul. Here we have a sand trap with an identity, a sand trap that's in a human. It ain't a sand trap, and these are people, and these are people who feel and love. And then somewhere in there,

that's where all of it begins to like show itself in a certain way, which is like, oh, if you're gonna engage in this practice, which is a real path for a lot of people. No doubt. Then you have to really, really stop any form of dehumanization. That's also the fuck, that's also the thing.

I was just talking to, actually oddly enough, Whitney's brother, who I was talking to about this for a while, and you grow up and you get used to this kind of, you watch porn, and you jerk off, and you have sex, and sex is, you pleasure the other person, but you pleasure them in a way that the pleasure itself is the goal.

It's not the union that Tantra talks about, right? The union of physicality and spirit at the same time. It's more like the mutuality of pleasure that sometimes touches something that feels divine, and sometimes touches, usually, a lot of times, touches flow state, which is the, at least, removal of the stress of your mind and body, and there is some connection.

So don't get me wrong, there's beautiful aspects, but they're also very mechanical, pleasure-driven, druggy aspects to having sex. And for me, those mechanical, pleasure-driven, druggy aspects, even the validation of pleasing somebody else, that's actually one of my favorite parts, is the mechanical process of pleasing somebody else with whatever,

mouth, tongue, dick, whatever I'm doing, right? Like that thing, it's not union. It's like, I can make you feel this pleasure, and that makes me feel good about myself. And I need a hard reset on that shit. So that's why there's no porn, no masturbation, none of that for me. I gotta fucking take a hard reset,

because I do believe that sex is, potentially, a path to union with source. But I'm not, I can't do it. I gotta, not right now, I gotta hard reset, and then explore, and see if I'm called to that, maybe. Right. Well, I mean, you know, someone told me, Lauren Michaels on SNL said, go ahead and do drugs,

but don't do the same drug all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, keep a rotation going, because if you do the same drug all the time, that's when you really do hurt yourself, and sex in particular. I think, you know, the good thing about, you know,

drugs as we understand them, any drug, any drug that involves eating something, is that, you know, you're taking a drug, and a lot of people don't understand that, like, you don't have to put something in your mouth to, you don't have to absorb something into your digestive system for it to be a drug. And so people get confused,

and think they're not doing drugs when they're doing hardcore fucking drugs, from the internet to sex. All these endogenous chemical cocktails that get released. I mean, those moments when you're in some kind of deep, rich power exchange sexuality, and like every part of you is lit up, and they're in transient hypofrontality,

and you're in flow state, and there's pleasure and sex, and all the endorphins being released, you're in that thing. Like, you're high as fuck. High. And it required no external drugs, no exogenous chemicals at all, but you're high as fuck. And that can be addictive, but at what price? What price are you willing to pay for that?

And you're getting, you're getting all sorts, like the pharmacy in your brain is always gonna dispense the purest shit, man. It's gonna be like the high grade stuff, as good as it can get. Anything else is an imitation of that incredible, whatever that pharmacist is doing in there, when you come in with a prescription,

oh, an orgasm, you ordered an orgasm, oh, you ordered an orgy, the experience of an orgy. Here, here you are, and you take that wonderful, wonderful drug, and you experience that transcendence. It is so powerful because it's not, you know, it's not as though you're just getting off. It's literally like in those moments of intense pleasure. For a second, a window flies open,

and you look out at a landscape, and you remember something, and you're home for a second. Yes. Oh, home, oh yeah, this place. You know, when you're like, when I've had the height of psychedelic sex, I'm not even me anymore. I'm like a river, or someone going down a river

and getting bowls of water, or some drums in the forest, or wind blowing through a forest, or meadow, a meadow, and the breeze rolling through it. I'm not even me. I'm just suddenly some other thing that is like the sex has been a bridge to that point. All your anxiety leaves, and all your stress leaves, and everything goes away,

and so it's not only that experience, but it's the release of everything else that you've experienced, which I've relied on that nightly. Oh, I've had a stressful day. I'm a little anxious. I got this thing. Let me find my outlet.

It's gonna allow me to escape back to that meadow. And of course, yeah, if you smoke a little weed or do something else, it can actually enhance that experience. So then there's that meadow. There's that release of all that experience. But then, like you said, that moment of orgasm. Like, have you done 5MEO DMT?

Oh yeah, a long time ago. But not like you did it. So that experience of union, where it feels like you're in the unicity, where there's just one note, and there's not the dichotomy. There's not polarity. It's just one note of source going,

oh, and that's for me what taking 5MEO is like. It lasts for me five minutes. But orgasm gives you that, because the pleasure is turned up so high. That knob is just at the maximum crank where you don't hear a sound. You don't see a thing. You don't remember anything.

It's just the one note. And the only thing that mimics the one note is the unicity of all things, of source itself. So you get to taste it, or at least taste an approximation of it at that moment. There, so yeah, this thing you're talking about, there's so, in Buddhism, I know there's different, it's called the gap, is what they call it, the gap.

So, or that's one of the words for it. So like, for example, when you sneeze, interestingly enough, it's similar in the micro, because when you sneeze, you're just, like in that moment, you're just fully in the sneeze. That's exactly right. The sneezes uses an example of an orgasmic state, but like much faster with a lot less

of an interesting buildup to get to that state. Usually it catches you by surprise, but still the sneeze is one of those moments. And there's a few other moments, like apparently if you start following your breath, you'll notice there's a space between breaths. There's that when you fully outflow, and right before the inflow, there's a gap there.

And then also in between thoughts, sometimes you just will catch yourself not thinking. So that's the gap. And what you're talking about is a way to get into that spot, which is in between the frames of your existence or something. It's the space in between the framing of reality. And that place is way, way, way less intense and heavy

and filled with all the drama of this particular movie that we identify with, that we call our lives, right? And so yeah, it's a place. Man, you know, for me, like I was listening to Alex, no, I was reading, yeah, I was reading that book on Everest, man, that they made a movie out of. You know, End of Thin Air, Crack Out. This guy, he's talking about how the only place

he can escape his thoughts is by climbing mountains. Like the free solo guy, right? Like people are searching for their different ways to escape ourselves, which is what's really interesting. I think for me, building the other, because I have other techniques, I have other tools, I have so many tools, but I don't use them because I got a crutch, I got a reliable crutch

that will take me every single night, you know, whether it's by myself or whether I'm with a partner, it's a crutch that will take me out of ordinary life for 30 minutes, right? And so there's that thing that I wanna, I wanna develop the other tools. I wanna do a meditation every night.

I mean, I meditate some nights or I wanna do some other practice, go out in nature, you know, like go out by my trees underneath the lights or sit by the fire and like find some other ways, do some pranayama, like figure out some other tools to get me to that equanimity, you know, in like a different way. And I'm hoping this like forces me to use the tools

that I have at my disposal, but I'm too fucking lazy and too like addicted to this other way to really use them, you know, and to the capacity that they could be used. I feel guilty telling you this technique just because it's like, I'm sorry. But you know, there is the other version of it which is called adding wood to the fire.

Have you ever heard of that? No. Well, it's similar to the thing where your dad catches you smoking and it's like, all right, let's smoke. A whole pack. A whole pack right now, except it would be that with fucking.

And you think I have it? Well, no, because I guess the idea with adding wood to the fire is that, and this is, by the way, everybody, this is controversial. And to me, the number one thing is don't kill yourself. Don't use as an excuse to go do a shit ton of drugs. If you're all fucked up or to drink too much or anything,

you've got to be smart. You can't just like, you have to be smart. Now, all of these are just tools to get to the same place anyway. So this idea is, yeah, no, if you had actually added enough wood to the fire, the fire burns out. Well, that's, and that's also what happened.

And it wasn't even that it was like this crazy, a lot of people think I've had a bunch of orgies and crazy stuff like that. I do. I think that, I think you have orgies all the time. I think you're constantly having sex all the time. I mean, I have a rich sex life, but it's typically just, you know, the same,

I've been with six people over the last, you know, six years. Oh, really? Wait, what? And that's, and a lot of people don't realize that. Like that's, that's it. And occasionally some of those people have been at the same time and occasionally there's been some things like that that have happened,

but it's really a lot less than people think. But what I have done is I have created these like sexually charged party environments, which the partners that I've been with really like, right? It's like a, it's an environment where they're going to be dancing and twerking and it's going to be this kind of sexual thing. And I usually just end up hooking up with whoever

my main partner is at that place, but so much energy is wrapped into the, into the process of creating the environments that are interesting to them. And also interesting to me because then I get to hang with them in the place that they're interested. What do you mean environments, like dungeons? No, like a, like just like a house,

like a house party with music that goes late. You know, it's like, so, and this was, we had, we had one of these on Thursday for Halloween. We go to the Halloween party, we have the after party. And then the after party, there's the outfit change and everybody's dancing around. And then finally at like five in the morning, I've drank so many fucking hard come butchers

that my head is just spinning. I'm like, I'm done. I got to go like, can you, you know, you want to go up and like, can we have sex and I can go to bed? But I think part of, I enjoy, I have enjoyed partying, but in that way, but I don't really anymore.

I would have rather called that night at, you know, one o'clock and just gone up and had sex and cuddled and felt rested the next day. You know, and that's, that's also the energy that I want to cut out is these, because it really isn't about the, the orgy type of thing, but it's about the, the party environment that like creates the possibility of that orgy maybe,

but also creates the environment that my partners like. Man, addictions wild, isn't it? Cause like you look at the, like every addiction has an associated ritual and you know, like whatever it may be, man. Like there was a point when I was doing ketamine all the time. I was addicted, man. I was truly addicted.

I haven't done it in a long time now, but I did have to like, it was like too much and it was bad. No, nothing was happening anymore for it. There was a time when I was getting like real downloads from the universe and there was like an authentic, like I guess you could say healing that was coming from it, but then it just got to be, I wasn't even feeling it anymore

and yet somehow I was still doing it, but I, you know, became addicted to the ritual. I became addicted to the whole process from beginning to end. It wasn't just the psychedelic state. Oh, this is what's so fucked about addiction is it's like, when you're a smoker, it's not that you're just addicted to the nicotine.

You're addicted to the guilt after you smoke. You're addicted to the going to the gro, to the store and feeling that shitty feeling of like, I can't stop. You're addicted to the whole goddamn cycle. You're even addicted to fake quitting and starting again. The whole thing becomes like, it's not just the nucleus of the addiction,

whatever the substance or activity is, it's just cool to watch the whole cycle of addiction as it unfolds. That's really fucking wise actually, man, because there's so many other things that are wrapped into it, like the mirror glance, you know, that look at yourself, like how do I look right now? You know, how do I appear or like the buying this shirt?

Does this look, oh, I could wear this thing? How do these shoes look? Or how does this thing look? You know, and the type of workouts that I do, which I mean, I work out frequently, but am I always working out in the way that is best for my body or am I working out in the way that would look the best to these potential partners?

Like you start pulling on this string and I just wonder, I just wonder how deep it goes, like how, when I pull this string out, like how far into my life, maybe I'm gonna be doing a lot more yoga and a lot less kettlebells. I don't know, maybe I'm not, but we'll find out because this one piece is gonna be removed

so everything I'm doing now is gonna be for me, for my friends, for, you know, the greater good. This is the, like sex is the most selfish thing that I do. It's not selfish with my partner, I'm very giving to my partner, but it's the thing that I don't, it doesn't help the world in any way. You know what I mean?

It's not like I'm doing something for the benefit of my company or my friends or the greater good. This is like for me and my partner too, but like, it's what happens when I pull that out and then I realize like, what is gonna give me the greatest satisfaction? The holidays are coming and if you wanna give somebody something that's gonna transform their lives,

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Bombas.com slash Duncan. Get some new socks for your lover. You know, I heard this cool thing from, I think Vlodriano Buddhism about drinking beer or whatever. And the idea is you drink. Until you're not aware that you're taking sips of the beer and then stop. The moment you're no longer tasting the beer,

the moment you're no longer aware of swallowing the beer, then stop, stop. And you know, it's interesting that as a, because I like it in the sense that it's not making anything taboo. It's just asking more than anything for you to acknowledge the moment that your awareness goes bye-bye.

Yeah, when you become unconscious. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and this is the problem with a lot of these things is like you just become, you're no longer doing it with any kind of awareness. There's no, you might as well not be there. You're just like your heart. You're just like some autonomous,

or rather, what would you say? Autonomous isn't the right word. It's like a subconscious, you know. Well, you become an automaton. An automaton, that's what I was looking for. Yeah, and then what is that? That's where now you're, it's sad because it goes from being like, you know, cargo cults,

the South Pacific cargo cults. I love talking about them, you know, those cargo, in the South Pacific, apparently, they dropped these military chests that had all this shit in them for the troops and it landed on uncontacted islands. And so these uncontacted islands started doing rituals, repeating what they were doing on the day

that the cargo fell out of the sky. Oh, it wouldn't happen again. Yeah, and so that's chasing the dragon. And, you know, with whatever the thing is, it goes from being this truly joyous, pagan, glorious opening to the universe to turning into like a boring ass church service where you're like, here we go again,

I'm doing it again, I don't know. But you, in the same way at church services, people might pretend that they're feeling the joy and they're there in the spirit of the divine, but actually they don't really feel it anymore. It's just a husk, you know, the thing is no longer alive. It's like, it's not gravy anymore. It's like that crusted shit that's like used to be gravy,

but now it's all gelatinous and cold and crusted, but you're pretending it's still delicious, Thanksgiving gravy. That to me is when I think my gears start grinding when it comes to anything I'm hooked on. Yeah, keeping that awareness riding with you, so you're always, you always know what you're doing. And then you start listening to the great spiritual masters

like Ram Dass, who says the soul loves everything, not every being, but everything. And then you start going like, all right, our purpose is to live in soul land, another term that he uses, right? Living in soul land where you see everything and you love everything and you're in that place. Like the challenge is, is this, you ask the question,

is this thing getting me closer to that or farther from that? And that's an interesting question because I definitely want to get there. And I want to get to that place where I'm loving people who might be a sexual partner or not a sexual partner the same way. I'm loving an evening that might result in sex

or not result in sex the same way. I'm loving the parts of a person's body that give me sexual pleasure or don't give me sexual, but loving them the same way. Can I massage someone's shoulders or their feet the same way that I would pay attention to their genitals, right? Like that's soul land.

That's like the place that, like fuck it, like why not shoot for, why not go for it? Like, I mean, I'm down to do all the things, but do it all from that perspective of loving and appreciating everything, even the beer, even all the things. It's not a path of renunciation because renunciation just binds you to that fucking thing,

even though I'm temporarily doing that as a tool to liberate myself. But if I permanently went celibate, for damn sure all I'd be thinking about was sex for the rest of my life. I think there'd become a point where it wouldn't work. Yeah, you know? You've just constructed another palace there, right?

You're just building another weird. It's like, I love that perspective Ramdas had. This is honestly like he's talking about a, you know, we create a hierarchy of experience. For some people, the hierarchy is, the peak is sex. For some people, it's finishing a race. For some people, it's having children. You know, it's different for everybody.

For some people, it's taking a walk. The more awakened a person seems to be, the less, you know, the less trouble they have to go through to get to that spot, you know? So, you know, you don't have to climb the mountain. You can just go sit in your garden and you don't have to actually sit in your garden. You can look out at your garden.

You can actually just be in your garden all the time. But people really, I think some people have a little bit of an adverse reaction to this perception because their entire identity is based on this odd starvation cycle in between moments where they allow themselves to experience the divine and moments when they are imagining that they're not experiencing the divine

because how could that be possible? It's like breaking the fucking simulator, man. It's like, no, you know what? If the whole thing can't be divine, it's gotta have spaces in it. And if I don't have those to run towards and I'm gonna turn into a piece of shit, that's usually what people say.

Then what will motivate me? What will there be anymore? What will there, and it's like, are you fucking kidding me, man? Do you remember the last time you were in love? Do you remember how you acted? Do you remember how every moment was blissful and you weren't like, if anything,

when you're really in love, you become the opposite of a lazy, demotivated person. You're like making mixtapes. You know what I mean? You're like- You're laughing, you're smiling. Every room you go in, people elevate their spirits. They find a cord with your energetic state, you know?

And it's just a great gift. It's the permission you can give to the world to feel like that. I don't know if you've listened to East Forest tracks with Ramdas. Yeah, they're great. Unbelievable, but when he says, I love my pain, I love my wheelchair,

and he says it so true, like so true that you go, oh shit, he's transcended the preference of not being in pain and not being in a wheelchair and identified all sensation as being of source and being of the soul, loving awareness, as he says. I think he's one of the few people that are at least publicly out there

who've really actually made it, really made it to Soul Land. I believe that, and I haven't spent time with him like you have, but the more I'd listen to him and the more I tune in, I think he really fucking did it. I wanna tell you once, I have a million stories about him. And yes, I would say you're right. And some of the stories I feel embarrassed talking about

because it's like, man, I know what people are gonna think, but I saw this with my own damn eyes. And we call it whatever you wanna call it, but we're at one of these retreats in Hawaii and one of the things he does on the last day is he gets in these floaty things and he floats out into the ocean and people swim out there with him

and they just swim with him in the ocean. It had been raining every day at this freaking retreat, man. And he was like, again, I'm watching this from the balcony of my room just to put in perspective where the fuck I am. I could be out there swimming with ROMs off. I'm like, oh, it's a little cold. Here's a man who's at a stroke.

You know what I mean? And he's like floating in the water. It just, you know, he's being there, but it had been raining every day. He floats out there and it stops raining. And not only does it stop raining, but of course a rainbow forms above where he's floating. Now, look, man, those kinds of things in a movie,

you're like, shut the fuck up. It's cheesy almost. So there does seem to be a preponderance of synchronicities around a person who has achieved that state that you're talking about in the same way that, and I imagine it's like, you know, if you're writing love letters to the universe and you're not just writing love letters to one address,

but to every address with every breath that you make, then I think you could expect to get some love letters back. And I think you could expect to get more love letters back than your big date night where you're humping and it's exciting or the ketamine night or whatever, the booking, the movie night, or you lost the 10 pounds night or the whatever. I think you get constant return DMs.

I think a lot of variables start sliding into your DMs from everywhere. And I think Paul Selig says something like, the best way to know, to understand the self is as part of everything in the environment that you're in. I think we have these ideas where we separate things when we confine them because it's convenient. Oh, you're dunking there, and then here's your room,

dunking in the room. But like Paul Selig's like, no, no, no, no, it's dunking in the room, like they're all apart. And then not only the room, but the world and all the other people and like everything is like co-connected actually. Actually. Actually.

So this idea that Rom-Dos is connected to in something, obviously you say clouds are one thing, Rom-Dos is one thing, maybe not. Maybe Rom-Dos and clouds and the whole world and everything is actually in some kind of symphony and some kind of synchronicity. And like that might be the actual truth. And of course there's gonna be skeptics

and like prove it out, but maybe the science will prove that eventually and but whatever, but it feels like, it feels like that's right. To me, it makes me think of something I just read in meditations, Marcus Aurelius, where he's talking about the, this idea of like, well, what is the,

do you think the universe is imperfect? Do you think you spring from imperfection? And mostly, when I'm looking at anything that isn't me, you know, especially in nature, I don't, I've never seen what I would call an imperfect tree. Like I've seen trees in various states, but they're all beautiful, you know? The bark pattern, they're beautiful.

Trees are just beautiful. And then, you know, that's most things. In fact, that's all things is what I gathered from what he was saying, which is that any given frame of the process of unfolding of the universe can look like this or that, you know, in our own life. Subjectively, in like the frame of your identity

can sometimes seem crazy if the, and especially the smaller the frame gets, the more dramatic ship becomes. You, the more you forget, you're a process. You're not, you're not where you are right now. You are there right now, but that's not where you're gonna stay. You know, when I started doing this exercise program,

but when I went in the gym a little over a month ago, dedicated to working out as much as I could within reason, and I looked at myself and looked at my fat body and looked at my shallow face and looked at it, what I did is I looked through it and I thought, oh yeah, that's, I'm seeing this part of the process, but I looked through it to the part of the process where I'm not like that anymore

because I've consistently, you know, anyway, both exist simultaneously outside of time. And I think that a person like Ramdas is hanging out more in that outside of time place. And he is not seeing from an imaginary place. When he says, I see your soul, he's not just making that up, that's not pretty words. He's looking at you,

but he's not seeing this frame of the process. He's zoomed out. To the unborn and the undying part of the process. And it's beautiful. And how could you not fall in love with that? I know. He's seeing you, you know, and this is what they say. Again, I'm speaking for him,

but I maybe not speaking for him so much, but from what I've heard of an even Crowley Baba or what I've heard from hanging out with my baby is they just see good. They just see beauty and good. And they're really kind of blind to the shit we're picking up on our radar. And, and-

All the judgments we have. Yeah, yeah. And which is why it's a delight to be around them. Cause when they're looking at you, they're seeing right into that part of yourself that you've been feeling all the time. It's given you every single bit of confidence that you have in your life.

And there, that's who they're hanging out with is that, you know, the cloud of stuff around it, they're not dismissing it either, but they see something. Yeah, I think it requires a couple of things. One, you have to understand that the important part of us is the unborn and the undying. And that part is our soul and that part is here to learn, you know, and it's going like,

if you really believe that. And again, there's no way to prove that, but you can experience that and feel that. And that's what all the great spiritual teachers say. Like know that. And then recognize like Memento Mori, the classic Stoic saying, remember that you're going to die.

Like remember that this body is just in transition to give you a framework to just enjoy it and know that you're in a constant transition. And so you're not Duncan, you're Duncan-ing. I'm not Aubrey, I'm Aubrey-ing. There is no noun, it's all a verb. Because everything is actually even something that looks like it's never going anywhere.

And if a thousand years that chair, it's chairing its way into complete decomposition in some way. Everything is just in a process as we go. And we get to surf that process as we go. And we have a little agency to steer the surfboard or the canoe or whatever and decide, do I want to be Duncan-ing in shape?

Or do I want to be Duncan-ing out of shape? You know, like whatever you want to be and you can make those choices and know that like, okay, here's this life, this experience I have to be a Duncan or to be an Aubrey. How do I want to do it? And recognize it either way, it's all good. You can't make a wrong choice as long as you're not

hurting somebody else, preventing somebody else like Chad from chatting or Karen from Karen-ing. You gotta let them fucking chat or Karen the way that they want to chat or Karen. You can't fuck with their shit. But other than that, do what you want. And then you gotta let Aubrey, Aubrey. And now fuck with Aubrey's shit.

And then Maggie, you know what I mean? And that's to me is where it gets really controversial. And perhaps I've misunderstood, but once Krishnadas said this thing to me, and I'm sorry, Krishnadas, not that you're listening to this, but maybe I misunderstood you, but he always says the heaviest shit to me,

but it's always like one sentence. But then I think about it for four years, you know? And I remember he put his hand on my shoulder at this live podcast, at this podcast where he was gonna be right for me on stage and he looked at me with, you know, these guys, they really are just loving people, man. And when someone's, there's a thing they say

about one of these Tibetan teachers, Dilgo Kinsey, Rinpoche, he could say to you, be kind. And, but because it was coming out of an awakened being, someone who was opened up, it's a way different be kind than when you hear it on a TV commercial on the back of a cereal box or whatever.

But he put his, he said, you know, you're gonna have to burn off all the karma, right? Every bit of it, it was so cool because it was so simultaneously compassionate and realistic being like, you don't, you can't skip ahead to that place. You're gonna have to burn it out. It's gonna have to like be processed

and you just gotta do, you just gotta have to do it. And that surrender to that process, that to me is what Ramdas really teaches is to, okay, then I'm gonna love the burning. I'm gonna love every bit of it. When my awareness is there, when I'm there and not completely asleep or freaking out or screaming, when I'm there,

wait, I think I can work with this. I can love, wait, I can really love this. And then somewhere in there, that's to me, I don't know, those moments are pretty sweet. That's what, that's what alchemizes the karma itself. I mean, Ramdas says, I really like the way he talks about karma because a lot of times people get so wrapped up

in this past life and you did this thing seven lifetimes ago and he goes straight up, your karma is your mind. Wow. Your karma is your mind. That's so good. Right, so then you recognize like, okay, I'm not trying to redeem some fucking random mystery about some thing I did in some lifetime

and some fucking star system that was far away or whatever to some Akashic records reader is gonna try and pedal you. But like, you're just working with the things that are in your mind every time that you're in judgment, every time that you have a love that holds a record of wrong rather than the love that holds no record of wrong. Every time you even need to ask for forgiveness

because if you're asking for forgiveness, that means you've already judged somebody but true love doesn't judge. So it doesn't ever need forgiveness because forgiveness is already always given. And you're in that spot. You've transcended the karma of the mind. And so you get a clear, like a clear focus, like, okay.

Okay. I love that, man. It's like forgiveness in particular, there's this concept of revision. Have you heard this concept before revision? Neville Goddard is this brilliant philosopher talks about it. And I think I've heard of like some group therapy stuff that uses this, but essentially, you know,

many of us are haunted by some memories of times we weren't our best selves with people. And so those memories will just pop up out of the blue. And for a lot of people, when the memory pops up, it triggers a guilt reaction, which triggers usually some kind of depression or a series of behaviors that tend to like actually amplify the conditions

that the sort of less perfect self was being reactionary in in the first place. So you keep repeating this, you get stuck. And this is when people are like, oh, fuck man, the same thing keeps happening to me over and over again. I don't get it, why? Well, it's because you're stuck in a memory.

And so revision is this practice of like, and it's really weird when you hear it at first, but the next time the memory comes, instead of like reacting with guilt, react by revising the memory itself as though you were your best self in that moment. And say the things to the person that you would say from a loving, awakened state

and actually let them be their best self too. And hear them say the best thing back to you. And just as a psychological practice of, because when you realize like, oh shit, much like Marcus Raleigh says, everything before this moment is gone, at least from my temporal based POV. Meaning that the past is gone,

except for the remnants of the past that are floating around in the snow globe of my brain. So if I take those remnants of the past and actually transform them from their degraded state to their, the highest state that I can imagine for them, you get a weird instantaneous, what is called a remission of sin.

You get an actual, you have revised and you have like in that moment, suddenly weirdly you'll perk up before your mind can kick in and be like, shut the fuck up, what are you delusional? You can't change the past. Well, the past is a gone, but I certainly can change my record of the past.

And in that is what I've been, someone's never got, that's forgiveness. That's truly forgiving yourself as revising. And then from a multiverse perspective, it gets even wilder. This concept of every single possibility is happening at once. And the act of revision is actually a navigation

into the part of the multiverse where you were your best self as are being drawn into your best self. And then it gets even trippier, which is to imagine that right now, at some point in the multiverse, an advanced version of ourself is revising the past right now.

And we're experiencing that revision from the awakened version of ourselves. And then of course, when you get to the point we're talking about unit of consciousness, you realize that that self, of course, is the mind of God. And this entire experience is a revision that it is increasingly perfecting itself.

It all takes its own time and its own pace. But that theory, that thing, I've actually seen that in practice. So I have a group, I have a mastermind, we call it fit for service. And we go, we were out in Sedona, that was the last time we were in a retreat. And the purpose of this,

this quarter was about emotional fitness. And so we started a workshop and I shared a lot of personal things that I was guilty about, the things I was most shameful about in my life. And a lot of these things, so many of these people would have these same things that they were shameful about.

And then we did this exercise where we looked at each other and tried to see that everybody was each other living a different life. Like, look at those eyes, think of the things those eyes have seen, think of the things, the tears that those eyes have cried,

the smiles that that face has formed the lines on the cheek, the furrows on the brow. Like, let's look at each other, see this. So we got to this state and then people had the opportunity to offer those things that they were shameful about. And I was really surprised,

I was kind of expecting, one time I cheated on this exam or one time I did this, but there was some really powerful stuff that came out. And I was sharing as much as I could to kind of open the door. But one guy in particular was like, and he was with his wife.

He's like, I beat my kids. And he starts crying and his wife starts crying and then everybody starts crying. But everybody in that moment offered him their best version of unconditional love, even though every person in the room was so moved by this.

And then so just intuitively, the exercise was like, all right. You know, like, thank you for sharing that. Now, all of us, let's beam back to you. The most unconditional love and forgiveness that comes from the divine. And some people had a problem with that. Some people were like, no, like,

you can't, I'm not, I don't want to, I can't forgive, I can't forgive them for that. We're like, we're accessing like a forgiveness that's beyond the human, beyond the human here. And this will create the change that will actually prevent the action from happening. Like we're so stuck in this crime and punishment action. Like, oh, well, we should beat you now.

You know, but what really ended up happening is everybody got to that state where they were like, everybody was looking at him and just beaming that love. And it was such a powerful transformative experience, not only for him, but for everybody to know that even that thing that is so kind of almost unforgivable can be forgiven and transcended and all of that guilt

and all of that shame and all of that, that when it's compounded will bury, you know, different elements of his life and all that can be revised in the language that you're using. And one of the things Trudy Goodman says I love is you don't have to do it alone. That's what community's there for. That's what community's there for.

That's why it's so fucking powerful. Yeah. So when you got, when we had like 25 people all doing that, their heart already peeled open. They're already in, you know, wide open from the whole experience of the weekend. But when they were all there beaming their love and he was looking around and saw nothing

but love back to him in the room like, holy shit. You know, that was a thing. You watched a transfiguration happen probably. Yeah. When, what's that saying in Christianity or three or more of you are gathered there I will be and like that Christ consciousness and to me, this is I think where people get really confused

about Christianity is cause they're experienced with it. Sometimes it's this hyper judgmental people who seem to have a real intense agenda, you know, to like get you on their track. But like the real idea of it being like this, like, no, you don't, the thing is it just loves you. It loves you when you're killing it. It loves you when you're hurting it.

It loves you when you're whipping it. It loves you when you're loving it. It loves you unconditionally. It loves you, loves you. It like loves you the way my son looks at me, loves you. Except it's the whole universe. And to me that is the like, when you look at what's happening on the planet

and you realize you're seeing like, what is it? If this isn't the crucifixion of Christ, I don't know what is. You're seeing this like beautiful, beautiful, purely innocent, all giving thing, slowly being whipped, it's clothes ripped off, nailed to a fucking industrial revolution model of existence and slowly dying while it writhes in space,

completely alone as we devour it. If that's not Jesus, I don't know what is. And the good news about it is that like, at least if it follows the same model, there's a resurrection potential there, you know? It doesn't just, it doesn't just have, it almost like in that story, at least there needed to be that, didn't there?

Yeah, man, that was a powerful way to describe it. Because it's so true, man. I mean, that's God out there. That's God out there that we're doing all of these things to without any consciousness. We're not like the beer sipping example, right? Like we're not cutting the trees by asking the trees if we can cut them.

We're not talking to the earth when we go dig for gold or oil or we're not talking to the air when we spew shit into it. We're not talking and being conscious of the ocean when we dump shit into it. We're just taking, taking mindless automatons, going and crucifying our mother. And in some ways, if father is spirit and mother is earth,

it's like Jesus as our mother. Yeah. And we're like crucifying our mother. And, but there is that thing that maybe that is exactly what needs to happen for us to really appreciate, you know, our mother, just the way that Jesus needed to be crucified for us to really appreciate him in a certain way.

Like that's what propelled Christianity into the global phenomenon. And of course it's been bastardized. It's like Celics says, you know, diamonds of truth poured in a mortar of distortion. And that mortar of distortion has been all the ways that people have used power to, to kind of manipulate Christianity, but the diamonds of truth are still there.

And those diamonds of truth is the truth of Jesus that was being crucified. But, but nonetheless, maybe, maybe it's all happening as fucking perfectly, as fucking sad as it is. When you watch those nails go through the hands, as we watch our oceans get destroyed and we watch these animals go extinct, those are the nails through the hands

and the crown of thorns on the head. And as hard as that is for us who are aware to see it, maybe we can have the faith to know that it's the only way it ever could be. And, and yeah. And also just like, you know, the cataclysmic heartbreak when that thing dies, you know, and like, to me, that's, yeah, the heart, the like unparalleled heartbreak.

But that heartbreak is happening, you know, that is, that's important, I just think that's important to feel and to like, as I've heard, to radiate out from that heartbreak. So the heartbreak comes, cause you know, I meet people and they're scared and they're like, the world's ending and everything. And it's like, yeah.

But to really honor it, feel your heartbreak and then radiate out from that and then let out break again and again. And I don't do that. But I mean, when I, some, I do it more lately. Thank God. But like it is, you have to get into your heart and feel it. And then, but then also remember, if as above so below,

we're, forget crucifying the earth, we're fucking crucifying ourselves. Every single day, you know. I'm an expert at that. Every. Self-crucification expert. But again, that's, that's that. You are an expert on that.

You're hard on yourself, man. I am hard on myself, it's true Duncan. But you know, having somebody else, like I haven't, I know that I love the earth, but I haven't felt what I just felt just now until you just used your words and your language and your own expression and your own way of talking about it. And like, it just reminds you.

And that's why it's so important to like, be around people who can remind you and show you and like, say like, hey, remember, remember the earth. Remember how like, remember that for a second. Yeah. And you're like, oh fuck, I haven't really been thinking about that at all. And then you can feel the heartbreak of that.

You don't have to carry it with you every second of every day. You got to stuff that you can always focus on, but to tap back in and to, and to feel that and feel, like feel the love for your parents before they pass. Yeah. Like, you take that shit for granted. I love my mom so much, but I see her every couple of weeks

and I'm like, come on, man. Like, see her more. Yeah. Like, I love her so much, you know, like go make that extra effort, but you take shit for granted. Oh mom, you know, she's going to be around, you know? Yeah.

Maybe not. Like Don Howard, you know, like last time I said goodbye to him, I thought maybe this will be the last time. I was like, I'll probably see him again. I'll, you know, he's getting treatment at the Mayo Clinic. I think he'll, you know, he'll make it another couple of years and then you just get that message and like,

fuck, I should have just gone to fucking Arizona. You know, like I could have. And just, just seeing him one more time, just like held his hand in the wheelchair just one more time. Well, I'll tell you this, you know, the closer you get to that desire you expressed earlier, which is to no longer hierarchize experience, the sooner you'll see him again.

And that, that's the fascinating, I think, one of the fascinating things about this stuff is that it is a veil of sorts. And that the more you, you just melt into it, the more all those people that have been covered up by the veil of time, suddenly you start seeing them. And man, it reminds me, Neem Karoli Baba, this is, you know, one of the things they talk about,

it's how wild it was that he mostly just talked about Jesus. He talked about Jesus. They said almost more than Hindu, it's more, I think. There's a story they talk about, which is where like, he, he started crying, he was talking about Jesus and he starts crying, like just, like, you know, I don't wanna, being like that starts, that, the vibes apparently, just the energy,

he's like crying. Everybody's crying. And he's like, he said, he lost himself in love. He lost himself in love. And it's like, such a wild thing to say is to become lost in this thing that you're talking about. This, it's not, it no longer goes to being like, well, I think I can be in love with the UPS driver.

And I think I can be in love with the traffic. And I, it too, I am so deeply in love with this experience of incarnation that there's no more me if I wanted to go back, I couldn't. There's nothing to go back to. Whoa, that's a potential, I think, that some of these people demonstrate to us in their teachings.

And I think there's been a sporadic few, but I think as, as time goes, it's just like that first person who hits that double backflip on the motorbike and X games, like has a few more people get a little closer. And it's like, we start now, Ramnath says a lot of light shining on him, right? Like a lot of people are getting to see that.

And they're going like, oh shit, there's some shit that's possible. These aren't people that are, you have to walk on foot to India to find them and then hear the story and go back. Like we got them on video and recordings and where people can see them and go to retreats with them. And then there's gonna be more of these people popping up.

And we have the invitation to be on some part of the bridge to that road and give people anywhere on that bridge a little more permission to be like that. And then the world can start to really fucking shift. And that's, I think, where it gets really exciting. Like how much, how close can we get in our lifetime to that place of being in love with everything, not every being, but everything.

You tell me. I don't know, man, I'm going for it though, why not? And that's it, like why not fucking go for it? I don't know how, I don't know, I don't know. I got a lot of shit in the way, you know, like. What's in the way? Isn't the idea you love the shit too? Like whatever's in the way you start loving it.

You realize it's like, oh yeah, it's like a weird form of procrastination. It's like, hey, I'm gonna sit in this fucking hot tub of like dark goop. You know what I mean? I'll go with the nice hot tub. Cause that was one thing in the early days with Ramdas, you'd always be like, you know,

we need to get you out of your head and to your heart to me. And I'd be like, it's too hard. And he'd get this big smile on his face and go, no, it's not. Like I want to make it hard. I want to make it like some kind of like ultramarathon. I want to make it like gnarly journey through fucking thorns when, because what does that do?

It makes it so that for whatever reason, I could continue my addiction to whatever confused. It allows the ego to maintain sovereignty over the being. That's it. It allows, cause if you're struggling and you're striving, you're in a place that isn't quite there and you have to figure it out and think your way through and then the ego's in control.

And I think that's, I think the slippery ways that we're kind of, I want to talk to Paul Selleck. And I know I mentioned him a bunch and some people may agree with him or not, but he has such wisdom. When I talked to him, I asked him if the ego itself could be considered a being, like a being. And he was like, he asked the guides and he was like, yes,

the ego, you could consider the ego as a being. So what that means to me is that every being has the imperative to survive at all costs. Like every being wants to survive. That's the primary imperative. Procreate is another part, primary imperative is to survive. So your ego is within you,

within the construct of your mind. You can consider it like a being and it wants to survive. Now, if you open your heart and you transcend the vision in which you see separation in all, you don't see the separation and everything anymore. The ego is no longer in sovereignty and it's almost a place where the ego dies.

So it's gonna fight to the bitter end to take over and keep control because as a being it wants to survive and thrive. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's like the living palace. It's not just a palace, it's a palace that walks around and wants to like, yeah, yeah. And it's such a funny, it's like what would be,

like how much would it be worth to completely experience the fundamental goodness of all things all the time? Like what's the ticket price for that? And I think the ticket price is like everything. Like just, well, you just will give it all up. That's all, just give everything up. Like with my son, like there is no question

that I would just, if I needed to die for him, I would do. I wouldn't even think about it, like yeah, no problem. That's love, like I love him that much. I'll just die, it's not even that big a deal because I love that being so much. And so this gives me a little bit of a as above, so below map within which to understand, okay, well, if I could expand that out.

So it wasn't just my son, but it was everyone. Not just my wife, my son, my dogs, everything. And constant love, even when they're fucking screaming in my face. Even when they're shitting on me. You know what I mean? Whatever it may be. Cause I think that is the other piece for me at least.

It's like, God damn it, I just love, I love winning. I love the arm wrestling match. And I'm right in the righteousness of all things that ego loves winning the most. That's what it's driven to, it's driven to win. It's driven to claim separation, claim separateness and win. But it first has to claim separateness before you can win. How do you win if you're same?

You can't fucking win if you're same. So it claims separateness and then competes forever to try and win. That's crazy. And so the answer, I don't think we'll ever be able to let it go completely. But if we can merge the soul and keep the soul in the sovereign position and the soul becomes like the rider

and the ego becomes like the horse and it moves you. And then all of a sudden the horse and rider become like a centaur in which the whole mind and essence of the being is actually driving the horse. The horse doesn't even have its own mind anymore, but it's still there. Soul and ego on this journey through life. And it's just the unification.

Yeah, yeah. That's the place I think a lot of people check out. It's like, no, I'm gonna stay on me. That's at least what I, but at least though, I think what's cool about this stuff is that it is very compassionate in the sense that it's, you know, all these teachers that you always get the sense from them. There's this sense of like, no, this is,

you should get on the boat. I mean, it would be good for you to get on the boat. It would be good for you, but there's no rush. And Ramdas talks about it with Neem Karolibaba, that sense of like, he's looking at you and it's not like he's thinking, oh, you could do a few more lifetimes. You wanna do a hundred more, maybe a thousand?

Do them, let's do some more. We will do as many as we need to, on and on and on. So that, again, is another, like what you just said about the idea that the ego must create these boundaries to produce the situation of winning and losing. Similarly, another trick of the ego is this thing. Okay, then I'm gonna get, fuck, I'm gonna lose myself in love by next week.

I'll be lost to completely in love. And win that way. Yeah. I'm gonna win the love. I'm gonna win the ego loss game, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I think it may actually even be productive to guide the ego towards unconditional love.

Because again, I don't think, they don't think we can let it go. I think we just gotta steer it, especially at first. Like we gotta steer it. So what are we gonna steer it to? Well, we can steer it towards money and sex and power and all of these things. But if we actually steered it towards unconditional love,

not the spiritual materialism of wearing your power amulet and saying that I'm the spiritual being and I'm better because I'm a spiritual being, but actual unconditional love, which sees every person as just the same, not better or worse. And that was what you like steer your ego towards. So what's the-

Come on, ego. How do you do the steering? You go, ego, the coolest thing that you could fucking do, the baddest thing to make you the fucking best. The best thing you could do is to love everybody unconditionally. That might work. See everybody is same.

May I propose another one? Yeah, go for it. How about this one? You look at the ego, and this is almost blasphemous for a lot of people, and you go, ego, I love you. Yeah. Just the way you are.

I love you. I love you. I love you right now. You don't need to do a damn thing. Totally. Because you know what, man? I know this, and this is my ego speaking.

Anytime anybody is trying to steer me, I'm like, fuck you. You will not steer me. I'm gonna be this way. But anytime you get around someone who's like, just I love you. I love you just now. You get pissed.

You do the thing where you're like, mother fuck, I'm gonna fuck. And then after the fucking, they're looking at you, and they actually love you after that thing. And you're like, wait, all my other friends, when they see that side of me,

that's pretty much it. There's a permanent limp in our relationship, but you just saw that. Wait, nothing's changed? You still love, what about that? And that, that. And you go through all these gesticulations

in the face of that kind of love in the same way my baby. Well, just scream and noodle around and like, ah. But then I love that. And he's gonna be fine. And he, he's not expecting me to remember the tantrum. And I certainly don't remember the tantrum. It's unconditional is what I'm saying.

And that, that to me is like, okay, if we're gonna practice this shit, we're gonna start with the ego. And we're not gonna start by steering the ego, by changing the ego, by remodeling the ego. What happens if we actually just love it now? What happens to the pattern? Does the pattern change?

Does it? It might end up with, that might be actually the way to do the same thing that I was mentioning in the most effective way. Maybe. Is to love it unconditionally. And then it will learn to love everything unconditionally from the love that you've patterned and shown it to love.

And that may be actually the way. So maybe your question of like, how do you get the ego on board? Maybe it's to love it just the way it is, no matter what. Yeah. You know, I told, I told this story, I saw a picture one time of, and actually Alex Gray like redrew the picture for me,

which is fucking rad. But it was a picture of Prometheus who's chained to the rock. Yeah. And I think I might've told the story maybe. No, I know the picture. The vulture is eating him and shit, yeah. Eagle is eating its liver out, right?

But in this one, Prometheus has chained in a way that is feeder bound, but he still has access to his hands. And so Prometheus is eating his liver and has his liver is pulling it out. The eagle is pulling out his liver. And Prometheus is giving the eagle a hug. And every single, the symbol being that every single day the eagle does that eagle just doing its duty, its Dharma,

which is to eat the liver. And Prometheus making the choice, like Victor Frankel said, the ability to choose our reaction to any given situation, not the situation. Prometheus is choosing to hug the eagle in that moment. That's unconditional love. Aubrey, I love our conversations. I love our conversations too, man.

We can't do better than that. Yeah. We're gonna wrap it up. My God, that's beautiful. Love the eagle that's eating your guts. Love the eagle. Did I say eagle? Shit. Yeah, wow.

Whoa. Where could people find you, my friend? At Aubrey Marcus is a good place to look. On it is where if you're interested in supplements and fitness stuff. Alpha Brain is the best. Aubrey Marcus podcast too. I have a bunch of cool conversations on that.

You sure do, man. Thanks, brother. And every time I get to hang out with you, my life gets better. Likewise. Thank you for coming here from Venice. That is a gift beyond gifts, which I hope to repay somehow.

It's already been repaid, my man. Hare Krishna, thank you. Much thanks to Aubrey for appearing on the DTFH. I'll give you all the links you need to find Aubrey over at DuncanTrussell.com. And thank you to Bombas. And thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH.

The number one way to support this podcast is to try out our wonderful sponsors who are taking the leap into sponsoring the DuncanTrussell Family Hour podcast. So reward their heroism. Try out some new socks. Get yourself a new website. And I will see you next week

with a fantastic interview with Andrew Santino. Until then, Hare Krishna. We are family. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JC Penney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style.

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We are family. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, JC Penney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting, and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne,

Worthington, Stafford, and Jay Farrar. Oh, and thereabouts for kids. Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in-store. And we're never short on options at jcp.com. All dressed up everywhere to go, JC Penney.