Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 361: Andrew Santino

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

Andrew Santino, brilliant comedian and actor, joins the DTFH! Check out Andrew's podcast, Whiskey Ginger. Duncan is coming to Denver! January 23-25. Click here to buy tickets. This episode is brought to you by: Omax Health - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 20% on Cryofreeze CBD and all their other amazing CBD products. Audible - Visit audible.com/DTFH or text DTFH to 500-500 to get a 30 day trial/free audiobook & two FREE Audible Originals.

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or at the Denver Comedy Works website. All the links you need will be at dugitrustle.com. Strap in, children, because today's guest is a brilliantly funny comedian who's also a really great actor. He was on I'm Dying Up Here, which was on Showtime. He's been on The Disaster Artist, Mixology, Sin City Saints,

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So without further ado, please welcome to the Duggar Trussell Family Hour Podcast, Andrew Santino. ["Welcome to the Duggar Trussell Family Hour Podcast"] Welcome, welcome on you, that you are with us. Shake hands, no need to be blue. Welcome to you. It's the Duggar Trussell Family Hour Podcast.

Mr. Santino, thank you so much for coming on the show. Dude, thank you for having me. I've been really looking forward to this. We've been trying to make it happen. Finally you're here. I'm gonna see you on yours next week. And I can't fucking wait to sip some of that whiskey. Yeah, baby.

That's gonna be fun. I love it. I was thinking like, what the fuck do we talk about? And because you are one of the most successfully edgy comics I know. And I love it. Because I love when edgy and fearless comedy work. It's great personally for me because it makes me a braver comic.

It's great for everybody because it proves that, like we were saying earlier, this is possible. You don't have to be terrified on stage. And all that bullshit aside, it's fucking hilarious. Thank you. So one thing I like to think about when it comes to comedy is the edge. And I wondered what do you think the edge is right now

versus what it used to be? Like, because I think the edge changes somewhat over time. Or maybe there's more than one edge. But what do you think the edge is? That's true. That's interesting. I think like, because comedy, I've talked to a few comics about this, like Al Madrigal, especially.

We always joked about that. Like comedy doesn't hold up all the time. So like a lot of times you watch old stuff from years ago that you might have loved. And you're like, that's not funny at all anymore. You know, like sometimes I watch old comics that I used to love when I was younger and I don't find them funny at all. Because the tone changes depending on what's going on

in the universe and what's going on in the world of comedy and society. And I think the pushing things to the quote unquote edge is in my opinion, simply talking about what's happening in your personal framework that most people know about that don't really say it because they don't know if they should or if it's cool. Like, you know, I talked about not to like do material.

But I was talking right after Halloween. You know, I'd said like, I'm a first time homeowner. I've never lived in a house. I've lived in apartments my whole life. And I was like, I got to give candy out. And I noticed that in our neighborhood, it was a ton of Mexican kids, like tons and tons and tons of Mexican kids.

And I had said to my wife, I was like, this is, this is, it's awesome. But it's crazy because I thought we moved to a place where they couldn't find us. You know what I mean? And of course, like the, it's a shitty throwaway joke. And the audience laughs, but they're uncomfortable, but they're confused.

But it's like, that's my version of they obviously know I'm kidding. And the undertones obvious are of things that are true in my world of like, I've never been in a house before. It was something that happened. And I was like, yeah, whoa, this is crazy. It was like, there was like no white and black kids. I was like, where are all the black kids?

Where are all the Asian kids? It was like all Mexican. So I'm making a comment about my real life because it's my perspective. And they still laughed at the joke because they know there isn't vitriol behind it. It is something simple that comes off maybe edgy, but in truth, it's a joke about our reality,

about my reality. That there isn't vitriol behind it. That's the key to me. Yeah. There's no vitriol. You sparkle. You've got to this. You've got this wonderful.

Well, the orange hair helps. Yeah, the orange hair helps. Shiny. You got some kind of like, you've got this really, really sweet, benevolent vibe. And I think within that, you know, because people recognize right away, whatever's in your heart isn't poisonous.

Right. And because of that, what comes out of your mouth is, you know, it's no matter how, like on paper, people might look at that. I mean, because what you just said, that could be a post on fucking Stormfront. For sure. That could be like just like a commentary.

Typeart is going to take it and run with it. Yeah, yeah. It could be that, but the way you are, your spirit, it comes out in the right way. And by that, I mean, it comes out in a way that doesn't have that fucking thing where you go and see some comics and they go for it. Yeah.

But behind it, it's not love, man. No. It's like they're fucking pissed. You can always tell when it's real, right? Like for me, like when I joked about that after Halloween, I just did that joke the night after Halloween. And was, you know, and then I went into some other stuff. But like, you can always tell that what I'm really teasing is

the love I had for what was happening. It was like I was loving giving candy to these kids and like making jokes about that world was because I enjoyed it. And the tone would change if I actually didn't like it. If I didn't enjoy it, the tone of the joke would be so much more obviously sliced with negative energy that it's a hard thing to articulate, but people can feel it. Like I don't know how to write it down on paper to show

somebody like why one version of a joke coming from someone's mouth is more, is filled with more honest hate than someone that's doing it out of complete jest. And it could be the same words, but just how, who presents it and in the context in which you present it, right? I mean, I just think like it's, it will never be able to put that in a capsule and show it to audiences over why that works. But it just does.

Like there's something underneath it that just makes it a little bit easier to swallow because they know clearly I'm kidding. And if you're too stupid to know that I'm kidding, that's almost not my fault. Do you know what I mean? It's like if everybody else gets it and you don't, it's like, that's on you at some point. Yeah.

I mean, I can't control, I can't control how people ingest my comedy, but I can control how I deliver it. Yeah. Hoping that it's, you can, you understand that like when I do something biting or quote unquote edgy, you know that it's, I'm almost mocking the edginess of it. I'm joking about it being faux pas or, or you know, not the standard way of talking about something.

You know, man, here's like a real cheesy thing to say. Love, actual love is edgy, innately edgy. There is no way for it not to be. Right. People's nerfed versions of love. That's some other fucking thing, but actual, like authentic, like love love. Yeah.

That shit is like people like without hesitation will throw themselves on a sword for love. Right. They will do, you know, anything for it is like to me, it's something, but so fantastically wild about love. And, and, and when you see someone who loves what they're doing or who loves their craft, loves their art, it's beautiful to watch, to witness it.

And sometimes it's like kind of scary to see that, especially if your life, maybe you've been kind of like avoiding diving into that, whatever that, whatever love is, you know. So, you know, I think there's something really hopeful about, about it, because it means that if you're a comic and you're like, fuck man, I can't, my edgy shit, I can't do it anymore. It might be better to check in to like how you're feeling in general about existence and see if you got the bitters, because

that's a disease comics get sometimes. I certainly have fallen prey to it or you get fucking bitter and all shitty and you feel bad and you're fucking pissed and you can't stop it. But you also know you got to write jokes. And so you write from this bitter, shitty place and then that creates a feedback loop that makes you more bitter. Bad comedy is born from that.

Like I think that's where a genuine lapse in your comedic timeline happens and you can feel it too. You can see, I can go back and look at when I wrote certain things and I was like, this could have been funny if it came from a different place. It wasn't funny because it came from like this negative or bitter or, or, or jealous place. And you can feel it when you, when you know what you were

thinking when you wrote it versus now. And that's where comedy takes a hit. When you write from a real negative bitter, like when people used to joke about, or like I'll give you a new example. It's like Jess on it, right? Like people talk about Anthony and they're like, Oh, he's just so mean. He's got these are the king of darkness or whatever the fuck

they brand him on. You know, like that, that's it. That is a caricature he has, he has created this character. He's created is what he's giving you, right? And the reason that Anthony gets away with saying, you know, crass or, or, or edgy or rude stuff is because that's genuinely not Anthony, right? Like that.

It's so obvious that when he writes those jokes, we're smiling with him because underneath it's a smile. Like I know it's crude and mean if he's doing an abortion joke, but that's not what he means. Do you know what I mean? Like what you hear is that's because society has deemed that a funny item, but what is being said underneath it is really not cruel.

It just, it's just not, you know, like I said, this is a good, this is an amazing psychological exercise over what audiences find funny and why, because I think a lot of times people don't know why they think something's funny. Yeah. Like I used to say, I said, I think I did it on, on maybe I did it on Showtime, but I did this joke where I said in my neighborhood when I was a kid, I kind of got pushed around a lot for being

this goofy looking weird, you know, redheaded kid. And white kids in my neighborhood couldn't stand me. Like I fought with every kid wanted to fist fight me. And I said, my neighborhood, you know, had pushed me out of being like a white boy and I had to like realign myself. And in my neighborhood, it was black, white and Puerto Rican as a kid. And I said, so white people kind of shoved me out.

So I had to like find what group would accept me. And I said, so, you know, I had black kids and Puerto Rican kids. And I take a big long pause and I say, and you know, I'm not, I'm not going to be friends with Puerto Rican people. So it's just such an easy, right. And everybody laughs, but sometimes I sit and I think, I wonder if they know why they think that's funny or they just laugh at the idea that I'm making fun of Puerto Rican's and

they're not that familiar with what that even means. So it must be funny to not make fun of black people. So like that fascinates me when I tell jokes like that, that I go, it's interesting that you're okay with laughing at my mocking of Puerto Rican people, but then you'll get mad at another thing that has a higher effect on your group of whatever that may be. I'm always so interested in how, why those jokes land to certain ways, to certain people harder.

Do you know what I mean? Like it's wildly interesting to me. And I think that says a lot about the psyche of an audience member. And what it says even deeper is, if that joke, when I do, when I used to do that joke, when I would say that, and they would get a brewery's laughter, it's because they know, of course I don't dislike Puerto Rican people. Like they just know it.

Do you know what I mean? There's no way for me to vouch that, but like, of course they know that. That's why I told the joke, because if I really didn't like Puerto Rican people, I probably wouldn't have told the joke. Ooh, right. You know, I probably wouldn't have said that. You would have hidden it away or something like that. Somehow I would have buried it in a weird slight.

I would have slighted it a little bit differently. You know, it would have been a little bit more aggressive, a little bit more bitey, a little bit more, you know, inconsiderate. They would have gone off the rails. You might have gone on some like horrible rant about Puerto Rican. There'd be just this twinge of something. Something you can see it. So like what you were saying is like, you can see when a comic tells a joke

that has some cruelty behind it or the bitters behind it, like you can feel it, that you're like, ooh, that's real. It's fucking radioactive, man. It's like, I was, man, I've gone through so many weird phases of comedy, but I was in a particularly shit place with comedy, and I went up at the improv and then like Jay London was at the bar and he came up to me and we're talking and goes, you know, you got weird stuff going on offstage.

It leaks out on stage. And I was like, hurt so bad because it was, I'm like, oh, they see me. You can feel the real me. Yeah. Yeah, they can feel it. And maybe the only problem is that you're trying to pretend that isn't happening, and so you've produced a fake version of yourself out there and that dissonance between the two things,

which is where you run to the other side of comedy, which is sometimes you'll see quote positive comics trying to do, you know what I'm talking about? It's like a brand of comedy, this like positivity comedy, and they don't really feel good about existence. They're freaking the fuck out. Totally. They're waking up in the middle of the night, gritting their teeth.

They're losing, not that that means things are bad, you could have a vitamin deficiency or something like that, but who the fuck knows? I don't know. You could just have trouble sleeping, man. You could just be someone who tosses in turns at night, and this is brought to you by the Comforter. Do we do an ad read for a bamboo Comforter?

Do you really want good sleep at night? Easy transition. Well, it is weird how like sweep, sleepwalkers, they don't, why don't they fist themselves? Like that never happens. Yeah, no, they just walk and eat food usually. Yeah, yeah, but that could be a cause of teeth gritting, I guess, of some scenario like fisting.

The point is, man, it's like, when I see that shit, the either side of it, which is a person who has got the bitters and then that is coming out of them, no matter what they're saying, or a person, they're saying shitty things, or a person who's got the bitters and they're trying to say really sweet things,

it's like fuck, both of these are attempts to what? Evade reality? Yeah, whatever's going on. It's an attempt to shift away from obvious pain, to make, to kind of like, to pivot, so to speak, to like pivot your, this false character that you have of yourself, because we're all, every comedian that I've ever met,

and I'm not a wise old man, but everyone I've met in my career, we all have insecurities and we all have things, we are just uncomfortable talking, it's hard to talk about. You know, we wish we could make it all funny, but some things to some people, it's just hard to do, and sometimes when you do it, it comes off tough.

Like, I've been trying to write jokes for fucking 10 years about my dad, about my relationship with my biological father who was a drug addict and in prison when I was a kid, and I've talked about it a million different ways and a million different times, and I gotta tell you dude, it's never that funny to me. I've tried to write it funny, I've tried to like,

write something, it just isn't that funny about it. It's just not, it's almost, you know, they're like, tragedy is, you know, comedy is tragedy plus time, it's like, well, this is pretty tragic and it's been a lot of time, but I just, there's not a ton of funny. Like, there's not, it's way more, so when I do do it on stage sometimes,

when I do dabble in it, it just isn't, it doesn't work that well. I've found it's just something I've let go. I've got a lot of those, man. This, so the answer when it comes to this potential like field, fields of incredible jokes about your father, for that to like convert into stand up,

two things have to happen, right? Or two possibilities I guess. One is you could do what, it seems to be like a new branch on the tree of comedy that some people are doing, where they're on stage taking breaks from telling jokes to talk about. It's like a hybrid one person show stand up thing. And if you do it right, it can seem really powerful,

I guess, if you cushion it in jokes, and then it gives you a chance to explore like a whole new mode of performance or something. And it's powerful, but I've never, whenever I've tried that shit, I'm on the back just because like, I hate what we've worked with comedy store comics. And I came up with Rogan and like in the back of my head,

there's always just like, you're just lazy. You're not fucking writing enough. You're just trying to like. That's what it feels. Yeah. And so then I, it's hard to do that and not feel a little cheap. The other thing, what is the other possibility

to like for you to find some inner peace in relation to your memories of your father? Possibly. Or to like, I guess like a psychologist would say to make amends or to forgive. And I talked to Dr. Drew about this on his podcast and he had said, what's important to know is forgiveness is very healthy and quite possibly

one of the best things that you can do for yourself. But, but it's not a necessity and it's okay if you don't. Yeah, that's right. I was like, that's so wonderful to hear and to know like we have this idea that you're like, we should always be forgiving. And at the end of the day, we should always be the bigger person at the end of the day.

We should always do the right thing at the end of the day. You should always end up just going. I, we have to forgive at some point, you know, of whatever it is. And he was very honest and adamant about being like, no, it's a healthy thing, but it's not always the end. You don't always have to go, well, at some point I must forgive.

No, at some point perhaps forgiveness is not deserved. And that's the end of, and there's nothing deeper than that. It's not, it's not holding grudges or it's not, it's not, it's not building anything more inside of you other than just you've let the situation go, but forgiveness isn't a key requirement. It can be just in the ether.

And that's kind of how I feel about certain things like that in my life that like, certain things I probably don't forgive, but I've let it all go. It just doesn't matter anymore. How would you define forgiveness? Forgiveness to me would, forgiveness in most situations in my life would be

finding a mutual ground with the thing I'm trying to forgive person or other and coming to kind of a consensus over like mutual agreement of peace. Like that we, I accept an apology. I give an apology. We're accepting our balance in the universe as people who make mistakes and we're all just trying

and I understand your perspective and you understand mind. That kind of feels like a forgiveness balance. Like forgiveness to me is like just finding an equality of balance in why things happen the way they happened and me being quote unquote, okay with it. That forgiveness to me feels like you, you admitting you're okay with something. Whether or not you really truly are, I don't know.

I'm a little bit of an emotional fucking Rubik's cube. I don't really understand myself sometimes, but there are certain things that I don't quite forgive, but I don't, I don't harbor them anymore. Do you know what I mean? When did your dad go to jail? My whole childhood, my father was in and out of prison. When was the first time you remember him going to prison?

Well, my parents split when I was one, so I don't, he was never like an active father in my life. But I remember getting calls from jail. I've talked about that before on pocket, but I remember him calling collect from jail. Like that was kind of vivid memories I had as a youth about like this weird lives. I never could visit him.

I never visited him. I think that's something that my mother was pretty adamant. It was like, no, you're not going to go. What was he going in there for? You know, the vagueness is, the vagueness and the evasiveness, typically what happens with addicts, he's a drug addict, but typically what happens with addicts is like they tend to put everything on everybody else.

Sure. You know, so it's like, it's their fault. It's their fault. It's this is fault. It's that fault. And he grew up in an extremely dysfunctional, extremely toxic place. So that's where I do have sympathy because I'm like,

I know he came from a terrible, terrible place, like a bad home as a kid, you know? And so that makes sense to me, but you know, then all I remember as a kid was like stints in and out of prison and this negative balance of like never showing up for things, lying incessantly about things, you know? So it's just, I lived that a lot as a kid. So I got used to it, you know what I mean?

So if somebody lets me down as an adult, it just doesn't affect me the same. I know that sounds almost, that's odd to say and admit it, but if somebody lets me down, I'm almost like, okay, that's it is what it is. It doesn't hit me as hard. And yeah, perhaps that's a positive spin on something negative. Like when somebody disappoints me,

it doesn't strike me as hard for some reason. Like it just doesn't, I don't get taken aback by people who are not loyal or people that are, don't stick true to what they said they were going to do for me or with me. I just, I feel like it's a part of human life is fucking up. So I feel like that's kind of like, well, maybe that's just, it happens.

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I can't wait when that new credit pops in. It's audible.com slash DTFH or text DTFH to 500-500. You'll get a free audiobook and two Audible originals. You'll be supporting the DTFH by supporting our sponsors. Thank you, Audible. Now, back to the podcast. You know, once somebody told me you can trust people to be who they are, I really like that a lot.

That's really good. The person will say they're one way or another, and that's part of who they are is who they say they are. Then there's all the other ways that they act, and that makes up this thing that is the person. You can always trust a person to be like that. That doesn't mean they're going to tell you the truth with their mouth, but they're always going to kind of be that way.

Then it's hard to be disappointed when you're like, oh, yeah, that's just the way that thing is. That's the code in there. It just does that sometimes. Sometimes it just fucks people over. Sometimes it just disappoints people. Sometimes it does like... Now, that doesn't mean that's not the same as forgiveness.

I don't think. I think that's just more of a kind of a way of like... Acceptance, maybe? Or... You know, disappointment for a lot of people is a reminder. When people are disappointed, it seems like they're like people who throw themselves off a cliff under rocks over and over again. They're like, this keeps hurting me.

These crops keep hurting me. It's like, well, you're doing this. Your idea of the way the world works is apparently not the way the world works, which is that the world does not really work. It tends to malfunction. It's always off kilter. Things are always malfunctioning and going awry. You know that.

You tour as a comic. You know what that's like. The sound's gonna fuck up. Something's gonna go wrong. The plane's gonna fuck up. It is the way of things. Things don't tend to work according to the way we wish they worked. Would you like them if they were harmonious?

I feel like that's part of the beauty is the chaos. If I think my car was always on time to pick me up from the airport and the flight was on time and the weather was perfect when I landed and the hotel was already taken care of and everything was lined up. If I think all those things landed up harmoniously all the time, we would be bored and devoid of any sort of comical reaction to the world. Well, the boredom's interesting because boredom is cool because the next time you're lucky enough to get nice and fucking bored,

take a look at the feeling of boredom because it's a really interesting feeling in that it's like painful, but then when you really start analyzing it, when I've analyzed my own boredom, I realize like, oh shit, this is like a multi-layered thing. Usually it's more along the lines, I don't want to be where I'm at or I want to be somewhere else. Right. It's usually the components of boredom.

So it's like when you get everything harmonized, you do experience boredom. Sure. But what's the boredom? Where is it? What is the boredom? I think it's probably, and I think boredom is so different for everybody. You're probably not bored often. I'm somebody who's not bored often because I feel like I'm always moving,

so it's like hard to get there. Like boredom might be something that I'd strive for a little bit more. Like I wish I was bored sometimes. Come to my meditation this Sunday at this yoga studio. I'll be bored. Oh, you will be fucking bored because we sit still for 40 minutes and don't talk. We'll see, but see even then I'm probably focusing mentally on getting to a place. Like I'm talking about, because that would probably be enjoyable.

Like I pine for a day. Like I remember in school and not enjoying the lesson or not enjoying the class and the level of discontent was max. It was just, because school wasn't cool for me. I wasn't good at school. I didn't enjoy it that much. I was good at it. I could get through it because I feel like I was smart enough to just like coast through

on a B and I barely did work, which frustrated teachers to no end. They were like, he doesn't fucking do anything and he's still getting through. Cheating. Yeah, they thought that out. But it was just, I just, I guess I was smart enough that I just figured it out. I was like, if I can just do this, I'm okay. And I could coast right through. But the level of boredom I would experience in school is something I probably took for

granted because it was just, it was complete nothingness. You know what I mean? Like I was blank. I was empty. I didn't have worries. You don't have bills. You don't have families. You don't have all these things to worry about.

You're inherently bored because you have so much space to fill. Like now I have all, so now I'm so full. Yeah. I don't think I have any room to squeeze in boredom. Like it's, I'm a U-Haul and you've Tetris every fucking couch. You know what I mean? Like boredom will be nowhere. Maybe put in the front seat, but that's still not going to fit because we got to get out

to piss. That's how I feel about those that, because like I joke about it. You know, I've talked, I joked about this to my wife that I was like, I think, I think humans would live so, so long if we didn't pile on societal things that I also enjoy. Like having a family, making children, making a home. Like these things are heavy weighted things. I don't think people take into account how heavy, it's heavy to start a family, heavy to get a house.

Like it's so heavy and I'm like, man, I wonder if we never had that. Would we, with the technology we have, would we live so long? I feel like we might live so much longer if we didn't put a lot of societal weight. And we all do it, by the way. Like everybody, I don't care what financial status you have, you put this, you put certain weights on yourself about your living situation, your family situation. It always piles. I was like, I wonder what it would be like if that wasn't so heavy.

Like would we have them more full life? Because I don't, as an adult, I couldn't tell you the last time that I was like, fuck, I'm bored. I don't know. That's like, you know, there's like a, it's really like, to me, the thing, this, this sort of stuff that I've been taught on one level can really fuck up the video game. Like if you like, do you play video games? Dude, I don't.

And it was so funny. It's like so many of my friends do. When you were a kid, did you? Of course. Constantly. The one thing will happen in a video game, most types of video games outside of the shooters, I guess you get some joy because you're like overcoming another person. But a lot of times in a video game, what happens is you're operating some character, a car

or a thing or whatever, and you move to the next level and you're usually rewarded some extra power. Right. Like now you can fly. And because you can fly, you can take on different enemies. And then eventually you're going to start realizing like, oh shit, it's the same, literally the same pattern, but the enemies are becoming more colorful and my character is becoming more colorful.

Right. The pattern seems to be essentially the exact same thing. It's like a fireworks show using different fireworks, but the same, like whatever, launching them into the same place in the air, right? We went from a sparkler to now a massive Japanese firework that has different caricatures inside of it. Yeah, but still kind of the same fucking thing. Same thing, essentially.

Yeah. Fire in the sky. And so then like what happens is in a person's life, you construct these places to get past. Right. And so anyway, the whole juggling act of modern life that is definitely heavy, heavy and definitely cumbersome and definitely emotionally intense and definitely like perhaps definitely the most intense thing I've ever experienced for that intensity to function at the height of

intensity. It requires there to be some possible other place you could be. And now if you've made up an idea, like, you know, when you're on the road and you get to the hotel and you sit down and suddenly you're there by yourself and for a second in that great solitude, I don't know if you get it, but I get this like, oh yeah, it's just me and the emptiness and quiet and I can relax now. Yeah. Right.

Well, that is a game that I have created, which is that I produced a condition where I think is a place I can relax in. Right. And I've imagined these other places are not relaxing positions. And in fact, if they were, I think I would not want to have that level of relaxation throughout the day because I would superstitious. It might in some way reduce my ambition and lower my ability to continue fanning the flames of the suffering of and that I've created with my own mind, you know, so it produces

a never ending feedback loop, which is, and that's the game, which is we all have a place for some people. It's the couch at the end of the day. For some people, it's after a run. For some people, it's the vacation. For some people, it's fucking. But whatever the fucking place is, when you really look closely at it, that place is everywhere. But you've pretended it's some special place.

And thus now we've got all this heaviness, right? Like it ruins the game. That's the main thing is like, people don't want to ruin that game. I want, I mean, man, I want to fucking have millions of dollars and a beautiful thing in the fountain and the fucking thing. And you know what I mean? I want to have it. I want to travel wherever I want, send my kids to private schools and like, oh, and all the things

somewhere in there. I've constructed this insane idea that when that happens, that's when I'm going to get the, but when you really look that, ah, it doesn't really quite come. And if it does come, it barely lasts. And then you realize, oh shit, the thing is like, it's not, it's, it's, it doesn't, it's not dependent on phenomenal phenomenon. Right. Well, that's why, that's why, uh, Rogan makes fun of me for, no, it's so true.

Rogan makes fun of me for golfing. Joe likes to make fun of people for things that he can't do. You know what I mean? It's like, he can't golf because he knows he'd get addicted and then he'd be mad that he wasn't good enough. He would ruin him. He wouldn't get addicted and he would, he would become like, he would probably become like a, the greatest golfer or something.

He wouldn't be able to stop is the main thing. So like for me, he makes fun of me. He's always like, why do you like that? The lame sport so much. And that is my, I love it. I disappear to a world of no work thought, no love thought, no like emotion. There's no emotional connection other than playing this little specific game. I, it's very, very, it's, it's drugs.

It's wonderful drugs when I play golf. I don't, I can't explain it. I think everyone that plays knows it. It's like a beautiful escape with zero consequence if you're, if you're balanced, right? So like if you're bad at golf and you're still having fun, it's perfect. And if you're good at golf and you're not, and you're fucking up and you learn to just let it go, it's perfect. Like golf is one of those sports where it doesn't really matter if you're good or bad.

If you're good at being okay with either, it's perfect because you're in nature. It's peaceful. It's very quiet. It's usually very serene and beautiful. Usually, I mean, most golf courses are beautiful places in nature and you just get to just do it and it doesn't really matter. Like it's just one of those things that like, there's no consequence. It doesn't matter if it works or it doesn't work.

You're figuring it out. It's very much like life. Like- How many people did you just hook on golf? How many? I can feel the pull now. I feel the pull. I hope they try.

It's so peaceful, dude. It really is. And it used to be a rich white man sport, used to be kind of the stigma. And now I think people are learning, it's like, you don't have to have a lot of money. Golf courses are quite affordable. A shitty bag of clubs can be found at a garage sale anywhere or your local store where you can go buy them for, you know, a hundred bucks for old shitty clubs because you don't need fancy clubs and go do it.

Just go try it and I promise you if you can laugh off, if you can laugh off not being good, you will love it. I think it's, I mean, it seems to me to be one of the more psychedelic sports out there. Totally. I know it is very, very fun to ingest things and do. I like smoking weed and playing golf. I very much do. I have tried other stuff.

Ironically, I don't like drinking and golfing. A lot of people love drinking and golfing. Like that's kind of a traditional- Yeah, sure. I'm not a huge fan because when I'm drinking, I don't really like to do activities. No. I'm not a let's go drink and do a sport. That's not my thing.

I mean, what? Let's hold on real quick. I'm drinking sports right now because it's like bowling, darts, golf, pool, what else? I mean, anything in a bar, shuffleboard, not tennis, not football, not baseball, nothing that requires any kind of like, you know. Cardiovascular movement is hard when you're drunk. It's the one thing that I can't go to the, like I know people who will drink and go to the fucking gym.

No. Never in a million years will I do that. No, but I can smoke or take a little pill and go to the gym and- You can take acid. I can take ketamine, weed, you name it. I can be on just about anything. Anything. Pain killers, speed.

Right. I've never tried cocaine at the gym, but I'm pretty sure it would work. I'm sure it would work. Yeah. I have the booze at the gym. No fucking way. No. And to me, I think this is more of an indictment of booze than anything else.

True. Fuck. How bad is it for you that it's like really fucking up your ability? You know what? I want to backtrack a little bit. Ketamine in the gym, they don't go together. They don't. I'd rather be quite honest.

LA Fitness used to have a ketamine corner where if you were fucking- I would have joined. That would give me the anything. If you had a K corner, if you're falling into a K hole and LA Fitness was like, and we have a K corner. A treadmill for the K. K hole. Having a K hole. But no, you're right, actually.

As someone who loves alcohol, I have found that what I love about it is that it's- is when I'm sitting in my home with someone, having a drink and having conversation, because I think it's wonderful at activating these like synapses in our brain of- especially, you know what it does for me? It digs into the memory crates. It's very odd. Marijuana and like pot affects me in a way where I get very involved in what I'm doing, like with you right now, like I'm- I really enjoy- I'm enjoying it a lot.

Yeah, likewise. With alcohol, I start to dig into the crates of like maybe the first time I met you or the first time I saw you. And it's something that pot doesn't really do for me. Pot is way more a live-in-the-now thing. And booze tends to bring out this like kind of historical file in my brain. Like that to me is what I do value about. I do enjoy having a conversation about the past with people with alcohol.

And that's, in my opinion, the history of alcohol. Most times, it was, first of all, used for relief and aid. You know what I mean? Sure. And also, it was almost a way for people to escape tragedy, you know? It was a way- it was a shared communal thing to get rid of pain from war or famine or fucked up shit because it's- because it does dilute your brain. It's not really positive for your brain.

It kind of washes away negative and pain and inhibition, which I think can be good for humans in very small doses. Oh, yeah. The problem is our culture has led us to becoming okay with just blacking out. That it's like totally acceptable. That's right. To damage your brain. Yeah.

So literally, it's so acceptable that the government is chill about it. Oh my God. Totally cool with you. Mind-blowing, isn't it? Ruining your brain. It's supportive. They subsidize it. One of the biggest agencies is Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

And that's a faction of our government that is supportive over something that literally tears us to pieces and does bad, bad things. A family member's friend, I won't mention, she just passed away of- what is it? At your liver, cirrhosis? Cirrhosis. Yeah, at 40 years old. Wow. The doctor said the images of her liver that were taken were that of someone who was a

alcoholic for 30 plus years. I followed her liver on Instagram. You did? Yeah, it's fucked up, man. I'm sorry. It's so fucked up. Well, I got to tell you though, the posts were incredible. I know.

Great posts. Some of the great posts. Really good poetry. Really good poetry. It looked terrible. The depth was there. The depth was there. But at the very end, I had to unfollow.

I couldn't. Working on this thing right now for alcoholics, it's liver makeup, so it's like you can actually get the spots away. Blush and like, yeah, just like generally like shine up your liver so that it looks fucking great. The problem with alcohol, any of these things, any of them, they all, even weed to some degree, but barely, weed to like tea or something, but like to me, long-term use of any substance, it does lead to a kind of like metamorphosis that usually isn't aesthetically pleasing.

True. You know, it's a, you're going to, people start, you know, there's something, Teres McKinnon said addiction is repulsive, and I think that's a really good description of it. It's like something about seeing a person out of control and is, I think just on one basic level, it's kind of scary, man. Oh, very. So my dad struggled with alcoholism, and that was a really scary thing to be around because to have a dad that on one, one phase of the day is like a normal person, but then on the

other phase of the day is a roll of the dice, that's scary, but fuck, that's just like in a family situation where I guess there is some survival involved, but like from a tribal perspective and evolutionary perspective, you couldn't really run a functioning tribe if there was a member that from, that couldn't stop themselves from eating a thing that was obviously poisoning them. Right. So it might be built into us to really, is it addiction to really look at it unfavorably and to really like have a kind of like, I mean, like, it sucks.

But when I'm around a true died in the wall, hardcore dedicated to their own self-destruction level addict, I go the other fucking direction. Yeah, it's hard. I used to not be like that. I used to, you know, you were talking about how your dad has impacted the way that your expectations of other people happen in the world, and we all get imprinted by our fathers. One way my father imprinted me was I at one point would gain an unhealthy, this is such an embarrassing fucking like limp in my personality where I would like find a toxic dude, you

know, who was like kind of like, you know, powerful, hopefully something was really fucked up about them. Right. And then I would like try to help them. Oh, wow. Like a fix it. You really want to be a fix it guy. It's you're supposed to do that with like the people you're sexually attracted to.

Yeah. Yeah. No. White night stuff with dudes is like really like embarrassing, but I didn't even realize that pattern was happening in my life until like my father passed away or so little time before that. And then I'm like, oh my God, I keep trying to repair my dad as he was when I was a kid through, through someone else.

You were doing it through whomever you were gravitating towards. Let me teach you how to find a song. Oh, so awful. And they know fucking boozing, fucking carousing dude wants to have somebody fucking whispering an emotional shaman while they're trying to black out. No, but that's but it but but but that's so normal. That's like so normal. It's it's it's it's insane how normal that is.

Everybody has those things. Whatever that is, we all have that thing. It just it takes it manifests differently for everybody. It takes shape in different ways. You did it because it was familiar and it probably felt pretty right. Like whether or not you knew it, it probably was pretty right in your in your high functioning version of of whatever it was. It probably felt pretty fucking good.

My friends being a dick to me. It was kind of good. Right. Yeah. Probably felt oddly good. True friend. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. My but that's how you know it's a true friend when they treat you like shit. Something about that is so real for every everyone has that pattern. Whatever it is, whether it's fixing people or taking abuse or walking straight towards abuse. Like some people love abuse. Some people get off on abuse and without it they seem like empty and lost and but we all have that dude.

We all have our, you know, not to sound cliche, but we we definitely all have our flaws, but our flaws are only magnified if we choose to accept them, right? Then you go, oh, it's an embarrassing limp. I'm grossed out by it's like kind of we it's such a weak part of me. But otherwise you wouldn't really have known. If you didn't, if you didn't look at it and realize it, it would just keep happening. That's right. And then that's more toxic.

That's way more toxic. Yeah. And how about the thing where like when you do acknowledge the thing and if you do it out loud to the wrong person, they'll be like, don't be so hard on yourself, right? You know, it's a, you know, don't it's okay or they'll try to like put lipstick on the fucking grotesqueness and it's like, no, allow me my personal revulsion and because I'm revolted by a like weird code that appeared in my personality and the program of my identity doesn't mean I hate myself.

It's just I'm allowed to look at that and look at the whole spectrum like, uh, that's fucked up. That's a real like weird thing that I don't like. And I think that's another important part of accepting it is like not trying to put lipstick on the fish, like really looking at it and being, being like, oh yeah. Like when, like when I look in the mirror and I haven't been working out, I'm allowed to be like, I'm fucking gross right now. I don't have to be like this.

I can run. My knees are working. I can exercise. I don't have a disability right now. I can fucking get out there and it's fucked up that I'm not doing that. I think that doesn't, you know what I mean? I mean, I, there seems to be something in our culture, which is, uh, to somehow want to like look at a thing differently than it actually is.

And then, and in that comes the possibility of allowing a thing to live in your house that doesn't need to be there anymore. We're afraid to evict subjective tenants these days, you know? Totally. Well, it depends on who's, it also that, that balance depends on who's aiding in our, you know, like if your wife or significant other or whomever, like if you look in the mirror and you say, oh God, I look so gross and they say, no, you don't, you know, they're supporting your mental wellbeing because they love you and they care about you, but you

genuinely wish that they would go, yeah, yeah, you look a little gross. That's right. But, but because they love you, they just can't get there. And even if they did do that, you know, it would be disingenuous. You know? Yeah. If they did say like, okay, if, when you go, no, tell me I look gross because I know, and they go, okay, you, you've been in better shape, but it just doesn't hit the same.

You're like, no, you should feel what I feel, which means that what you've constructed is probably not that real, right? That's kind of where like, I think body dysmorphia comes from and people's body images of themselves. It's because your version is so much worse always. You know what I mean? Like you are going to be your toughest critic. If you have that personality, which I think most people are tough critics of themselves, you know, if you have any self preservation, but like someone else who really cares about

you is never going to join that party. You want them to cause you want to go, give me the fucking motivation to hate this as much as I think I do, but they won't give it to you because it's just not true, right? So I think you've constructed in your own mind the most, the most negative version of it. And because it, it probably will never exist cause you've, your brain is so powerful to go, you're the fattest and ugliest you've ever been. You're gross dude.

You're gross. All I need is a little validation to get me through this. So you want someone to go, you are gross. So you go, see, we knew it. We knew it. And then, but then it shouldn't stop there. And I know what you're saying. It's like to me, just cause we were talking about forgiveness in the beginning and I think

this ties into that to some degree. It's like, I think a huge part of forgiveness is to completely acknowledge to the best of your ability what happened, whether you were the person who hopes someone forgives them or whether there's someone who hopes you forgive them. What actually happened? Cause I know in my mind with my dad and there have been times where I felt guilty just looking at it as it actually was, you know, like there's a sense of like, oh, I can't even like think the truth.

And, you know, since I had a kid and now I'm looking at this beautiful child and I'm like, you are never going to be in a fucking apartment in college station, Texas surrounded by pornography while I'm off at fucking work and then going to a bar. That's never going to happen to you ever, never going to happen. But for me to like get to that point, I need to acknowledge the totality of the terrain that I was living on. And then instead of just stopping there, which they think where victims stop, is they're like, ah, yeah, that fucking sucked, oh, fuck.

Then now that you have that, you can place it on a weird spectrum, a continuum of what could have happened. And so this is where this thing, this Neville Goddard should I'm listening to when he talks about forgiveness, the way he talks about it is not the way it's commonly understood as I've commonly understood it, which is generally some kind of, it's the same thing like, what are you grateful for? And then you're just supposed to like express some bullshit. You're not feeling gratitude, but you're going to be like, oh, I'm grateful for the trees.

You're not feeling anything. You're either numb or blank or you really don't give a shit or you feel awkward. That's not real gratitude. That's just putting on a show similarly with forgiveness because it's fashionable to have some monster in your past and then weave the story of the horror and then weave the story of your grand forgiveness. Right. Even though inside you're still fucking just walking with a limp, you're still confused

and pissed and in denial. That's not forgiveness. So Goddard's version of it that I like a lot is and it's psychedelic and it seems on one level, maybe like delusional or something, but his version of it is take whatever the places that you want to forgive, go back there and your memory bank, some whiskey and then revise it. So now it's like, for me, that would be, oh, I'm in like a non-divorced household where my dad and my mom are really in love and my dad has not succumbed to alcoholism, but he

still loves life and he's still funny and he's excited about being alive and my mom is not struggling with her own issues and her own troubles and they're really focused on me and my brother. My brother is like a big brother who isn't trying to get his mind to wrap around 18 fucking addresses that we all move to over the course of our childhood or whatever. And then in that, you live in that place as that family. And it's really, really powerful, man, because if you really do it and it's number one, it takes some courage to do it because it's heartbreaking because to do it, you've got

to fucking acknowledge the other side of what you experienced. But then that heartbreak is good. You should feel that. That's what you should feel. It's natural. Yeah. And then from there, suddenly you start reliving things as they could have been. And then within that, weirdly, because all that memory shit is is like stored like neurotransmitters

that are expressing themselves in a certain way. Within that, there seems to be some kind of authentic relief that comes, that awful cord that maybe you still feel tight as fuck between you and your dad. It starts like loosening somehow. And I think that's what Goddard calls forgiveness is revising your past mentally until you are or it's not the memories you're having or memories of the a perfect thing that didn't happen. It's crazy.

That's crazy. Yeah. Have you done that? I do it all the time. Have you done it with your father and your his your past? Yeah. Yeah. I've got like.

Do you think it took his death to do that? So that's like a big thing that I've studied and tried to figure out about. Your dad is no longer with us? No, no, he's alive. But I think about this is so dark. I think about I'm like, if he passed away, how would I feel? And that's a crazy thing to say out loud, because if you if I said, if I said, what if, you know, you and I aren't super, super close, right?

But if you passed away, I know how I'd feel. It would bother me a lot. Thank you. It would hurt me a lot. It bothered me a lot. It would. It would really hurt. It would hurt me too.

So you'd be dead and it wouldn't hurt. There's no more pain after this. That's a different podcast. But I don't know how I would feel if he passed away. I think that's a really, really. And I feel like millions of people feel the same way as I do about something in their life that they're like, I don't know how I would feel. I couldn't tell.

I really couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you. And I'm super scared to find out because I don't know. You really might not care. I might not. No, I might not. I might. My hope is somewhere in the middle.

My hope is somewhere in the middle. But of all the death in my life, I was never good at crying. I learned that at young. I remember going to my grandmother's funeral and staring at people crying and I just couldn't do it. I was like, why can't I cry? Something's wrong with me. I felt like something was wrong.

But I don't have certain triggers. I just like, yeah, for some reason. I would cry. If I saw somebody give a homeless guy a meal and he had like a really like genuine reaction to it, that might make me cry a little in my car because it would make me think about a lot of things. That's quicker to make me cry than when somebody passes away. Yeah.

Oh God. Nothing worse than grief pressure. Jesus Christ. Yeah. It's just like the weight of that. The weight of like, why aren't you feeling so bad? And you're like, I don't know, dude. I don't know.

If I knew where the switches were, I would have flipped a lot more of them. No shit. I mean, I would have changed a lot of this fucking technology if I could, but I don't know where all the buttons are. I have no idea. You know? Yeah. It's no clue.

When you think you know where the fucking buttons are, then those buttons open up a secret room that's got a million more buttons that has buttons with them fucking buttons. We are just a million buttons. A million buttons. Did you see the Joker? Did you watch it? Yeah. Okay.

Just because I'm so interested in the way youth, like so many people I don't want to talk to about it, because a lot of people, they just don't have anything interesting to say. Yeah. It's either like, I fucking hated it or it's like, or they go into the cinematic version of why they liked it. I'm interested in how you, as a performer and a person, felt when he became a little self-aware of his mental instability.

Did you feel some sort of connection to that? Did you feel, did you see parallels? Did you see, because I'll get mine out of the way fast, because I want to hear yours. I felt an honest, genuine connection sometimes to the instability of what my career and our lives are of performance and obviously I'm not going to fucking go shoot up somebody. Although there are a couple of late night show hosts that I would put, no. But I just was like, I had moments that kind of scared me. I'm not going to lie.

That scared me into thinking like, whoa, I have heavy emotional things because of what performance, that's even what living in the world of performance art or whatever does, that I saw odd parallels of like, you know, of like, man, that it is really difficult when you're trying to give and people don't want what you're giving. And there's this weird thing that happened. So I shared some of those things and it gave me a lot of uneasiness. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you know what you mean? Yeah. I mean, to me, like, that's kind of the always been the satanic aspect of the way that late show hosts, and I think that's why it's a great choice is to like have it on a late night show or whatever. But to me, it's sort of like the, you get presented by this like unremitting, never changing, powerful, charismatic, somewhat cynical, fashionable personality night after night after night.

And it gives you this illusion that people are one dimensional and that that's normal. And so like the Joker, here you have this thing that I on one level, I guess you could say is like, Oh, look, there's a not a crazy person. There's a person person. You're just seeing the reality of a human being, which is a fucking crazy thing that knows what it is sometimes doesn't know what it is sometimes surprises itself by a thing that pops out intentionally deceives itself. We are self deceiving creatures.

That's wild. What are the creatures trick themselves? What is the evolutionary advantage of that, man, fooling yourself into thinking you're away or not? That doesn't seem if anything, it's got to like, there's got to that's got to use a lot of processing power to like, I believe there's reason. I believe there's reason that we self sabotage and self, I don't, I don't, I don't think it's evolutionary, but I think it's, I think we do that to test ourselves.

It's why we love self destruction, right? Like we like not to throw back, but like it's why people drink and they get hung over, but they still want to drink again. We love testing limits and that translates to athletics as well. Like people that work out, like that, you know, David Goggins runs 800 miles, breaks his body. Yeah. It's terrible for your body at some point.

We love to test ourselves and I believe, would believe evolutionary, it's why we're so strong. So I would say it actually is a benefit. Because we're such an advanced machine, we are able to break and fix ourselves at such a remarkable rate compared to other creatures, both physically and mentally. I think that's why we continue to do it. We push the limits because we know if we pushed it too far and it broke all the way, we would be remembered for it.

Or, or, or, oh God, I was about to say something, so much more dark and say, we'd be free or we'd be free. Yeah. No, but perhaps that is, there's truth in that. No, seriously. Like when people overdose, when, when famous people overdose, we have, we have always in our culture, regardless of how sad the overdose was, we have posthumously held them on this beautiful pedestal of like, they just went too far, but fuck, it was awesome.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Like we love, we do, we love it. Every junkie's like a setting sun, Neil Young, you know. We just, we just have this beautification of self-destruction. Like we love it where there is, it's beautiful to break ourselves. So why we self-sabotage, why we self-destroy, why we get in our own way, I think is to test the, we love testing our limits.

I just, let me see if I can keep going. Let me see if I can push it. And this translates to what we do for a living. Dude, I want to see what I can say. Let me see what I can make up. Right. What can I, can I talk about the remarkable nature of refrigeration and why it's important to our society today?

Sure. Okay. Funny jokes about why refrigerators are remarkable and it's amazing that we have technology that keeps things longer than it ever did. Jokes, let's start a podcast on refrigerators. That's possible. But you go, I'd rather talk about pushing something to the edge of what I know and you know might be uncomfortable because it's, it's why we, it's why we break ourselves.

Like you break yourself because you're like, can we do it? And when you do it, you're like, fuck, we did it. Holy shit. You know what I mean? Like when you make a mental breakthrough, when you're on a psychedelic, when you have a mental breakthrough, when you have the 10th mile that you get to run, when you do the thing, when you get to these little kind of mini little achievements in your, in your mind, it's like you beat yourself.

It's the, it's a phenomenal feeling. It's an amazing, like, whoa, I think it, yeah, lately, man, I've been thinking of this in terms of multiverse navigation. Yeah. Cause like Goddard, the, like his concept is when you're revising the past, you're literally like not revising the past cause everything's happening at once. You're placing your attention on a different dimension where that actually happened and tuning into that because there is no past.

It's all happening in the moment. It's all happening right now. So this is like, so when, when you have a prison break, so to speak, which is whatever your perceived limitations are, you transcend them, then I think you're jumping timelines and you jump from the timeline where you are limited to a more unlimited timeline. And in that you don't just experience changes that are induced by dopamine or serotonin or like body changes or you're able to lift heavier things.

You also, I have noticed that other things like, like just get brighter. Oh yeah. My joke writing gets better. My relationships get a little better. I have more inspiration. It's almost like I'm in a completely different part of the universe. Dude. So it's like navigation.

You're leaping timelines. You're, every time you do that, you're leaping. This is how I make myself run because I've been, I've got the fucking Goggins bug as many of us have. And I've been like, you know, working out. And the way I make myself run five miles is I say between me and a different dimension is five miles on this treadmill. And when I get to the end of those five miles, I'm going to be existing in a

parallel universe where I overcame the part of me that used to be unovercomable. And that is when that's what trips me the fuck out. Because now I'm in a brand new day. Right. It could have been the day where I didn't do the five miles and it could have been the day where I did three miles and it could have been whatever. But now I'm in the day where I did it. And that's a new dimension.

It's a new land. Right. I'm fucking Christopher, subjective Christopher Columbus. And, you know what I mean? And we all want to travel like that. Yes. And sometimes we, sometimes all we really need is to put ourselves mentally there, knowing that you're going to get to a new dimension.

And when you do, you will be, right? It's almost like I talked about heavy, heavy, heavy panic attacks in college because I had ocular migraines. I would go blind. I talked about it on my podcast in great depth. Yeah. Crazy, right? I would go blind in my right eye and then my left eye vision would be a little

distorted, but I'd go blind in my right eye. So I'd have violent panic attacks. Um, and so much so that I was in the hospital for a little while in and out because they couldn't, I was trying to figure it out. And anyway, when I subsided, when this kind of calm down, so to speak, I'll never forget dude. I was walking down the steps of my college apartment and I stopped at the bottom and I looked up at my roommate in the loft and I go, Hey, dude, when did

we get this done? When did you get this done? Like his parents owned it. So I thought maybe they got it and he goes, what do you mean? There was a son, a massive son made out of like tiles hand placed in the front door. Yeah. And I was like, when did you guys get this done? And he was like, we, that's, that's all that's been there.

That's been there literally since you came here. That's, we bought the place that was there. Yeah. And as I walk to walk that day to work, I will never forget the feeling was scary and overwhelming because I felt a little scared. Like, how have I never seen that? You know what I mean? Like I felt like a trick, but then there was this realization that it was like,

Oh my God, that's like so many things. I do, you just don't see them because you, it just in the dimension I was in before it, I wasn't noticing enough. I wasn't paying enough attention to certain things. Perhaps that's why I was getting such bad anxiety and panic was because I was living in tunnel vision of just focusing on like collecting enough money to get the fuck out of Arizona to move to Los Angeles so I could start my career collecting enough money to, it was just like I was in a fucking zone.

I was in a zombie zone, not, not noticing shit. And the panic attacks and the ocular migraines triggered me learning more about this new dimension I was placed in. But dude, I'll never forget that feeling. It's scared the shit. I've never been that scared in my life because I saw it for the first time. It was like, whoa, how have I never seen this? I've lived here for two years and I've never even seen it one time.

Yeah. But then when I saw it, it all made sense. I was like, oh, oh my God, it's because I just haven't been paying any attention to almost everything around me. And that goes as dialed and detailed as that to many other things. Friendships, relationships, it was all sorts of stuff. So where, where does that end? What's the edge of that?

The perceptual field? Like, what else are you not seeing right now? Well, I mean, so many things, right? Like, that's why I think things like that happen in your life to make you see again, either the dimension you're living in or the new one you are shifting into. Yeah. I think things happen in our lives, tragic or otherwise, to once again, remind you that this is insane.

This is insane. What's happening is insane. My mind is like looking at that over your shoulder. Occasionally, that board with wires, and I can't stop going back to the idea that I have no idea what it is and how you did it. But I'm more fascinated by the fact that you obtained it. Oh my God, it's well, OK, this is because I could sit here for an hour and a half without technology and without looking up.

And I couldn't tell you how or where to get or or how to have is. It's a it's modular synthesizers. Right. And after after this podcast, we'll fuck around on them for a second because they go with marijuana like peanut butter and jelly. Wonderful. It's wonderful. It's my golf. But the the.

So this, to me, is one of the most exciting things for a person to realize. And we I think we forget it by necessity only because it's such an intense thing to have to deal with the possibility that your field of awareness is infinite and it's gotten super compressed into the human identity for a very temporary amount of time. But if you wanted to, you could start widening that field of awareness. And when you start doing that, then suddenly, you know, you do start

noticing stuff that you haven't noticed before. But then for some people, it becomes a little scary because the things that they start noticing don't fit into the way we understand physics. And so then they then they sort of revert back. Or some people just don't want to they're they like the New Island that they found in their exploration of self improvement. And they find it to be better, more fragrant. There's food to eat here way better than the shit island I came from.

But for some reason, they get homesick and then they like sail back to shit island. And that's the what ever the degradation pattern is that creates that cycle in some people's life of constantly healing and then constantly self injuring, constantly heal. It's like they're taking a weird commute from heaven to hell back and forth. It's this it's a ferry boat in the winter from Jersey to Manhattan. And you just keep taking it over and over and over.

Yeah, it's it's yes, that that idea is constant. But I feel like I feel like we're all subject to that in in a million little ways. We do it all the time in a million ways, like whether it's fighting with your significant other, even though you know exactly what that boat ride is like. You're like, I know what that's fucking like. It's freezing. I hate it. I get mad every time I do it. And then at the end, I regret that I did it and I talk about why I won't do it again.

But we all take that ride. We all have to take that ride, which is why going back to what we said before, I think humans are fascinated with how far we can push it. We can push ourselves mentally and physically in so many different in a million different facets, because we want to know what it takes to crack. I want to know. We all want to know. We all feel it. We all are like, what is it?

Like, what is it when you X, Y, Z? Like, what is it like? We all want to know. What is it like to die? Yeah, we want to know so bad. We want to know so bad. We're obsessed so bad with death of what it's like to be that we that we fabricated a million different versions of what it is.

We're fascinated. There is an endless amount of stories of what people think happens when they die. And there's collections of people that agree with certain ones overwhelmingly. That's does that that does that not blow your mind? It's like saying if I told you I went to Venice, then I went to Venice when I was in college. And if I told you, man, it is unbelievable. All right, it's unbelievable. Right.

And then you go, wow, I've never been I hope I could go one day. And then somebody asks you what Venice is like and you just tell my version of Venice. That's that's what we're just you're just telling my version of Venice that, by the way, mine could be total bullshit. I could have just totally bullshit at all of it. I might have never gone to Venice, dude. Let's take a quick break.

My wife just got back. Oh, OK, OK, OK. Can we continue? Yeah, of course. OK. Perfect timing. We're back. We're back, baby. And we're talking about death. Yeah, so yeah. But the the, you know, the one like I love all versions of the people's idea of the afterlife.

Yeah, all versions are wrong. Yep, probably. But most likely, yeah. The fervency with which people relate these versions to you is so interesting, because like I've had the, you know, the atheist ghost story. I don't know if you've ever gotten this one, no, which is. And by the way, not negging atheists or anything like that, just certain type of like passionate missionary atheists that just figured out that like the possibility that hell in heaven

or the afterlife might not be the way it was depicted to them by like whoever the priest class was in their particular religion. And they're really excited and liberated by that. But then they get really crazily fervent. But I had somebody really like get in my face and like, you don't understand when you die, there's nothing. It's gone. It's over. You're dirt. And that's it.

And there's nothing to hear. And it was like trying to scare me with a good time. You know, like you're you're you're because that version is another version of paradise is like full, pure, pure, infinite release from all tangent, you know, mental and karmic entanglements. Glorious possibility. Sure, you don't have to earn it. There's no at a gauge of like no scales weighing your heart against the feather.

You just you're out. Don't worry, it's all done. Wow, we can only hope, which is why those people who have that view of reality are some of like the top optimists in my mind. But weirdly, they always seem kind of pissed off. It's like, what are you worried about? You only have what 20 more years here before you get to experience permanent anesthesia.

That's what you want. Isn't that what you said you wanted? Right. Well, they're mad about it because I think they feel as if they feel as if it isn't what they thought, perhaps, or what they were told when they were young. So when they come to this moment of clarity of this is actually what they truly believe it to be, it's almost like they're bummed. Like they're almost bummed that it wasn't as fire and brimstone story of these these typical archetypes of heaven and hell.

I feel like they are almost sad that they relied to as a youth about this perfect idea so that they're like they're mad about it. But they they know it to be true now. Now that they're like, no, but I know it's nothing. Well, yeah, they and then that part is fascinating to me because it's like some of the trippiest shit in this type of Buddhism I study is sorry, you know, I talk about the same shit, but this stuff is freaks me out and it's awesome.

And they the idea is like, OK, so start the main idea is like mindfulness. Start like just paying attention. That's it. Just start paying attention. And then in that paying attention, one of the invitations is to start noticing how this thing we're in when we're awake is really very similar to when we're having dreams. And then so you start looking at that really closely. And you realize, like, well, there are differences in the sense that

in a dream, I'll have a lifetime compressed over a night. So I'll I'll experience like several different identities over the course of a night and then I'll wake up and won't give a fuck about whoever those identities were at all. And then in in in here, it's a little like there's time time affects the material universal differently. So we're experiencing an identical phenomena, which is that I can look back at different phases of my life and I know for sure that those are different

dreams, like those are just different parts. Like my child is certainly that's a dream. And then, you know, when I look back, it's a foggy memory. It's like I kind of remember bits and pieces. And then I look back at like, well, when I was in college, boy, that seemed important then, but in the same way, when I wake up from a dream, I don't give a shit about that now. I think about it here and there.

Now this phase of my life that I'm in right now, it's very important to me and I and I love it. But I imagine that if this pattern is to continue as it has been continuing, then this will just be another phase of the dream. And so this is the funniest thing is that people are like thinking they've got to wait to die when you go and look and you realize, no, you died. You've died all you've had so many incarnations already in this lifetime that you're probably there might be some similarities between the you that was

getting in fights back then in a fucking rough neighborhood and the you now. But really, they're kind of like very different beings and very different. In fact, completely different bodies completely. So you realize like, oh, fuck, I'm not only am I dying all the time. You start getting into like the real reality of it, which is like the past and all that stuff that you remember. It's actually gone right now. Like every single moment you're you're gone.

It's gone. We're like cinnapedes that only have one or like fake cinnapedes. What we we we imagine we have all these segments that are attached to us. And that's what we call our past. But the reality of it is like, no, those segments are gone. You're just a cinnapede head in the present moment. Imagining that you've got a cinnapede tail and then you're making decisions based on the cinnapede tail that doesn't exist anywhere except in your own head.

You're a monopede. We're all monopedes. I think we're cinnapedes. Neurotic monopedes. We're neurotic monopedes that assume that we're cinnapedes. But but that that the phantom the phantom back of us hangs with us because we've we've put that in our head that that should always be carried, that your pain and your that all the shit from your past

that is being drugged behind you is supposed to be there. When, in fact, we're just we're just self-indulgent monopedes who think that all that stuff is supposed to be back there. It's important, man. Yeah, it's fucking that's crazy. Remember the college days? Remember? Remember when? Don't forget when?

Yeah. Remember when when when Terry broke his arm down by the or whatever the fucking thing is, it's like, yeah, I guess. And I guess that's important. But really, that's gone, whether it's important or not. And some people like candles to that shit. And some people like build an altar to it. And then if you don't respect their fucking phantom, goddamn, centipede segments, they get all upset because you're not like worshiping,

which is when I got fucking cancer, man, that was one of the things that goes out the window is like, you get this like illusion, this idea that, like, not only does the centipede body go back, you think the centipede body goes forward, too. Then when you get sick, you're like, oh, shit, I'm definitely, definitely going to die. You know what I mean? This is like definitely not a permanent situation.

And then suddenly the adherence to getting stuck in the past or worshiping the future, you kind of throw it out the window because it's like, fuck, I in the similar to a dream where one second, fuck, you know, I had a dream just last night where this girl was giving me a blow job. And then I looked away and looked down. And it was some kind of like huge, like fucking beefy dude suck in my dick. And I was in the. What does that say?

Are you do you pine for that? Maybe a little bit? Maybe maybe a big, large man sucking your cock is your ultimate fantasy. Well, I'll tell you this. In the dream, there was that momentary recognition where like this feels exactly the same regardless of the vehicle of the body vehicle, the thing sucking my dick, right? There's no doubt was, I think, maybe one of the shocking parts of the dream

is completely no difference in sensation. By the way, that's how they get you in your dreams. The gay recruitment strategy is to get get in your dreams. Finally, astral gay recruiters are traveling into my dream to suck my dick. Then I'm doing something right. Yeah. And they're doing a good job as well. Well, I mean, I guess so. Now that I think about it, wow, guys, join up.

Join up. But but the the the the way that that just changed instantly in the dream, that's what this reality is like, too, in the sense that like at any moment, the thing quote, sucking your dick that you think is like the greatest thing ever can just change form or suddenly you don't like the thing. Or you think then everything shifts. You get the phone call, you have an internal realization, you whatever it may be. So the real truth is, isn't this the reason I think people like to push themselves

and we like to watch other people push themselves is because we all kind of know that we're in a dream and that there isn't a cohesive self at all. And that we're just a kind of like thing that is trying to in every single moment, redraw a non existent form that has not only been annihilated, but maybe never existed in that. Produced. You know, like, that's why we like to push ourselves because somewhere in there you you get some freedom from the addiction to this never ending idiotic pushing out of the monopied story, you know,

which is really annoying. I have to do that all the time, isn't it? It is. It gets old. And I everything I just said to you is exactly what I said on the phone during the Joker when I was watching. Every by the way, though, after when when I go into deep dives of of things like this and think about like the questioning solely of like purpose and existence and movement and along with each other and carrying stuff

from the past and how to move forward and how to live in it, the the best way I can feel about all of it is that I finally accepted that like, I don't know, like I really don't know either what happens when I die or what I'm going to do tomorrow and how it's all going to work out. And I just am cool with it. Like I'm just faith. I'm just cool with it. I'm just I guess it's faith in I guess it's the belief. It is the perfect belief in complete.

Chaotic harmony. It's like it's all crazy and it's all working out and it'll figure itself out and and maybe it won't and I just it's OK. Like sometimes if I was in if I was going through something, my mom would always be like, you you're going to be fine. And it was annoying to hear as a youth. I hated it. It's like, I know I'm going to be fine. And I need some love right now.

But in retrospect, it's just it's something to be pummeled into my head because it what she was just saying was like, it's your the reason you're having stress is because you've engineered it by by taking what you've taken taken out in your life. So you've engineered all that stress. Yeah, but it will be fine. It will be fine. Yeah, that it just at some point it will be fine and it and it does.

And then when it starts becoming fine, if you just keep you reminding yourself that you're engineering it, you're engineering all of these things that you're like, oh, if I built this, I know how to live in it. I constructed it. I just need to I just need to be OK with it. That sometimes pieces are going to fall. Sometimes I'm going to have to move. Sometimes I'm going to have to fix it or sell it or or start from scratch again

and rebuild it like once. Sometimes I'm going to be run over in the street. Yep. Sometimes I'm going to be blown up by bombs. Sometimes I'm going to like my body's going to like just unexpectedly stop working sometimes. And then you're still going to be OK. That's one of the things one of my teachers, Ramdha says is dying is completely safe.

Yeah. The problem is we don't know that. So we hear shit like that, but we don't know it. But to me, yeah, everything is going to be fine. It's going to be fine. Not for your body. If your body, if you think being fine means maintaining the current form that you're in for eternity, then you're fucked. Then you're fucked. Everything is not going to be fine. Yeah, because this is not going to go.

But this, you know, sometimes I was talking to somebody the other night and they're like, well, don't you think the world's ending and really upset? And I'm thinking like, well, I mean, this is a political perspective, obviously, right? They were upset that like what's happening politically is what do they mean? Are they mean like climate change? Right. OK, OK, OK, OK. And I thought, well, I don't think the world's going to end. I think the way we live in the world is going to change.

But the world, the world, I don't think the planet itself is going to like turn to dust or ash or something. But I think our experience of civilization more than likely is going to change radically over the next 10 or 20 years, whether we like it or not. And that being said, I think it is a really optimistic thing when people are so certain of their fucking lifespan that they imagine they're going to get to live in that time. It's like, get the fuck out of here.

You think you're going to be around in 20 years? How do you know that? Yeah. Where's your fucking temporal ATM that's got these years in it that you even get to be anxious right about being here in the apocalypse? And I'm not saying take a fatalistic approach and just start throwing plastic in the sea or whatever like that. I'm just saying I've noticed a lot of people seem to really just have a basic

confidence in their lifespan that is based on a brief assessment of lifespan, statistics and probabilities. And they don't think they're the anomaly, which is like, give me a fucking break. I've heard of it all the time. Someone drives under an underpass and kind of throws a break through their fucking windshield and you're out of here. Yeah, that's it.

Did you predict that? Was that in your timeline? Yeah. No, I also think like we can always be improving and doing better. And we should be critical about the way that we treat both our environment and ourselves and our fellow people. Like we should all of these things should exist. I agree. Yeah. But at the exact same time, it shows our level of complete and utter blind narcissism to think that we are the lucky ones that are going to save

the built trillion year old stone as if as if to think that's how. But humans are so we've only been around this thing for an extremely minimalistic, if not completely insignificant amount of time on this thing. Right. Yeah. We basically don't exist in the Earth's timeline. We didn't even happen. Right. If you're reading, writing a book, if the Earth wrote a book about itself, we wouldn't even fucking be a footnote. It would someone to go, what about the time you had humans and the Earth would go,

Oh, fuck. Oh, my God. I didn't. We didn't add that. The Constructor Nats. Yeah, I guess. The Constructor Nats. Yeah, I totally forgot about them. I forgot. I didn't even. Yeah. But to think that's how important we are to ourselves, that we think we are the ones that are not only going to break it and it's all our fault that also we we forget we should be so lucky for this thing to fuck us off in a weird,

disgusting way. Like we should be so lucky for the Earth to go. Your generation will be the last one to do this so I can be reborn and do it again. You'd be so fucking lucky for this thing to end. Like, yeah, it would be again. I'm not I'm not trying to be a a fatalist either and say like, I hope the rock hits us and I'm going to fucking do whatever I want. I hope we burn up. No, but I'm saying like we are so self-involved that we would assume

the rock is going to come kill this. An asteroid is going to come hit us or this place is going to burn up when we're on it. That to me is that that is the thing is it's like the gamble many people seem to be making. It's really weird as the global apocalypse is going to strike before their subjective apocalypse. And I think that's a really weird bet to make. It's pretty bold. The fucking reality is your apocalypse. Oh, I don't need the book of revelations to make that shit.

It's happening now. I can tell you you're in it. You're in it. You just look down at your arms and to me like that's the, you know, to get back to this pushing the edge and finding the edge and why we do it is because what is the edge? The edge is the fucking veil concealing some other world where we're no longer encumbered by some perceived limitation, which is exactly what apocalypse

translates to is lifting of the veil. So any transformation is innately apocalyptic and we love the apocalypse. Love not just not people dying. No, no, no, not people getting hurt. But yeah, man, it's fucking wonderful to watch the entire fabric of everything that you thought you were and everything you thought like I had a mom, I had a dad. I thought my mom and dad would meet my baby. I didn't think I'd have a fucking baby.

I all these things that I thought it's, you know, and when I was with a mom and dad, I would think I don't think I could survive being. I don't know what that what's that going to be like. I'm going to be one of those fucking dudes. Just mom and dad die. One of those poor, lonely motherfuckers you always feel kind of sorry for. You know, Jesus Christ, man. Well, enjoy spiraling in the abyss.

You know, but now that it's happened, it's just like what you were saying. It's like, fuck, I'm still here. I'm here and everything's still fine. Yep. And I imagine that that must be the like, that's got to be the big surprise party when you're when you're when you die. Yeah. The same phenomenon is like, oh, whoa, it keeps going.

Now, what the fuck that is? I don't know. I don't know either. That could be the last thing you say before a snake bites you in half and drags your torso down into the fucking pits of Haiti. And slowly eats you, spitting you back out, eating you again. Now, I'm sorry. I feel like I dominated too much of this conversation. It was wonderful.

But so when I come next week to your show, you'd fucking dominate me. I think I'm I think it's a mutual domination and it's mutual respect and love and adoration for mutual domination. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to be pummeled and I want to pummel. Pummel with a whiskey. Let's see how long does your podcast last? 17 hours. Yes. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah, we're just we're going to keep going until we need to stop.

What kind of whiskey are we going to drink? I'm going to give you something special. I'm not going to tell you. It's going to be good. I'm going to piss in your mouth. I'm going to piss in your mouth and come in your hair. That was a hit I had in 88. Piss. That was you.

Piss in your mouth and come in your hair. My mom used to sing that when she would bathe me when I was in college. Yeah, it was a one hit. I was a one hit wonder. But man, those days were good. That song is always pissed in your mouth and coming here available. Still, I believe I believe on iTunes. I believe you still can download piss in your mouth and come in your hair.

But oh, for sure, there's bootlegs of it. I was just going to say, I don't seek any royalty anymore. I just let it go tomorrow. You're headed to Zaini. I go to Zaini's and Nashville. This yeah, tomorrow. Yeah, Zaini's and Nashville. This will come out on Friday.

So definitely see Andrew. If you're in Nashville, come out. Otherwise, if you're in San Francisco next weekend, I'm there. And you've got a twenty twenty red rocket podcast tour. Yeah, the tour. I'm doing a tour. I'm doing stand up tour and some podcast stuff out there, too. But go to Andrew Santino dot com for all that stuff. But I'm doing a twenty twenty tour of like I've never done small theaters.

I'm doing small theaters for the first time. I know I'm so excited, man. Congrats. That's a big transition. It's a heavy leap. Yeah, I just want to try. I mean, they're not massive theaters. I'm not, you know, I'm not. But they're small, fun, cool, intimate theaters because I wanted to just try something different.

I just was like, maybe I'll step out of the club and do cool little theaters and get more intimate. And that way, the shows can last the way they want. There is no check drop. There's a bunch of different elements that I'm ready for that I want to try. You must when you have a chance as you're falling asleep tonight using Neville Goddard's insane, hyper dimensional time travel, mnemonic fucking thing.

You got to travel back to you when you were just starting stand up. I do. I do it often. You need to tell him I was on a podcast and I actually said, well, they're not huge theaters. I know. That's success. Yeah, yes, yes. You did it. That's so cool. It is. Yeah, I'm very, I'm very proud.

I'm I'm I'm I'm excited, but I'm like any comic, any level of success. You get nervous about a little bit because you're, I don't know. There's there's always a moment of like, oh, man, I work exactly. I work very hard for this. So this is what I wanted. And then you also get anxiety about why did I want it? There's a piece of you. But I know I know it's because I want to service my fan base in a different way.

Like, I just want to I want to be able to connect with them differently than I did prior. And maybe this is a new way. And if it doesn't work, we'll figure out something else. Like if fuck, yes, it is a new way. And it's a new way. It's wonderful. And I think people at those kinds of shows that club shows are great. Don't give me. Oh, it's all great if you're getting a chance to perform.

But in those theaters, when you really have fully your audience that's there and they're they're excited and immersed, they're immersed in it with you. Yeah, I want to feel that, man. I love going to see a show and not just seeing the performer that I'm enjoying, but then also like look around and like, fuck, all these fucking people love this this thing art form. Yeah, that's a real and that I really like that in a theater setting that I don't know the community. It's the community. It's a community.

Yeah, it really is. Yeah, it really is. Man, go see Andrew on his Red Rocket tour on Xanies or, you know, just go to his website. You'll see all my dates. Howdy, Krishna. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much, brother. That was awesome. That was fantastic.

Thanks for listening, everybody. Thank you, Andrew Santino for coming on the show. Thank you, Oh, Max Health. That's offer code Duncan. If you want 20% off their cryo freeze and go to audible.com and use offer code DTFH to get a free audio book and a couple of free originals. Thank you for listening. If you like the DTFH, subscribe to us, give us a nice rating on iTunes

and subscribe to us at patreon.com forward slash DTFH to get commercial free episodes and extra like hour long rambling things that I do once a month, along with some other great stuff. That's patreon.com forward slash DTFH. Thanks for listening to y'all and I'll see you next week. Until then, howdy, Krishna. Oh, come see me in Denver at the end of January. OK, I'm out of here. Bye.

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