Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 369: Suzanne Santo

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

Suzanne Santo, amazing musician from honeyhoney, joins the DTFH! You can hear Suzanne's new solo album, Ruby Red, in all the usual places, and you can buy it here. Duncan and Johnny Pemberton are coming to Denver this weekend! January 23-25 at the downtown Comedy Works! Get your tickets here. This episode is brought to you by:  Squarespace - Use offer code: DUNCAN to save 10% on your first site. BLUECHEW - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and get your first shipment FREE with just $5 shipping.

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Tacos, tacos, tacos, tacos, please tell me your taco. Friends, that was Only a Taco by Ms. Carol B and the Coffin Bugs. You can get that on Magna Rex Records. It's your noble host, Sir Arthur D. Trussell. Welcome to my podcast and thank you so much for listening. I'm here in Los Angeles getting ready to head out to the Denver Comedy Works this weekend with my dearest bud, Johnny Pemberton. So I'm getting ready for that. I've been bubbling my feet and vats of stem cells. I've been rubbing mayo all over my poodles, nips, and of course I've been doing the seven prayers of the Carthaginian martyrs. That horse got red eyes, what's that mural about?

Yee-haw Denver, hitting y'all up in the winter, my house smoking on some pinners. When you leave this town you're a sinner, a lot of cowboy hats but I don't see a horse. I'm the pyramid, you know this is the source. Watch how snow blow, let me in your back door cause I'm scared of your airport. Luminati stronghold, yeah Denver, Denver, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R, D-E-E-M-V-R. You heard it right, sweeties. I'm gonna be in Denver this weekend with Johnny Pemberton. Then the week after that I'm gonna be at the Arlington Draft House and I'm gonna be in New York. You can see all my dates by going to dougatrustle.com. Now this, much thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH as we tremble on the cusp of the singularity and you

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of a website or a domain. Again, that's Squarespace.com forward slash Duncan. Use offer code Duncan and you'll get 10% off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you, Squarespace. Friends, we've got a blaster of a podcast for you today. I was at the grocery store shopping for some fruits and cauliflower things for my baby. He loves these cauliflower bread things and they're really hard to find. You actually have to search for them. I was pushing around this shopping cart filled with firewood and bananas and just failing at hunting down the sustenance that my sweet child needs. We've need crisps. We need cauliflower bread things. You need a variety of jams and ointments and little kid stuff and macaroni packs. I couldn't find any of it, but

I did happen to run in to today's guest, Suzanne Santos, who is a brilliant musician. She is amazing. You've definitely heard her on her band, Honey, Honey. She's got an amazing solo album out right now called Ruby Red and she is a brilliant, hilarious human. So strap in, PS, if there's any dudes out there similar to Thor, she's recently single and she sent out the signal calling down all Norse gods, whether that's an external style Norse God or an internal style Norse God. And I don't think that God like qualities need to be just limited to the Norse mythologies. I'm sure she'd be open to all divine archetypes embodied within the human form. If you like the DTFH, won't you do me a huge favor and subscribe to me over at patreon.com

forward slash DTFH where you shall get commercial free episodes of this podcast along with extra hour long rambles, et cetera. Also my dear darling friends, we have a shop which has tons of new shirts, posters, stickers and a lot of other cool stuff that we are constantly updating. You can find all that along with my tour dates at duckatrustle.com. And finally, if you enjoy this podcast, subscribe to it, won't you? Okay, darlings, here we go. Without further ado, everybody open up your beautiful God nodules and send radiant beams of divine light spinning through the ether so that they delicately rain down upon today's guest, Suzanne Santo.

Hey, welcome back to the DTFH. Oh, thanks, Duncan. Thank you so much. What? This is cool. I like this is my favorite way for podcasts to happen. And which is I ran into you at the grocery store. Sure did. Yeah. And we were going to hang out. And then I went all like, oh, no, I have to monetize my conversations these days. We can't just have a free chat over coffee. This must be recorded. So I apologize for that. But thank you for coming here. And you know, I've been following you on Instagram and holy shit, you know, these like you're performing, you've been performing in front of it seems like the entire planet, like these audiences are so massive and terrifying. I have anxiety

looking at pictures of these audiences. And you're you're on TV all the time. You've been, you were like, well, how are you dealing with all that? Well, that's really funny. I, you know, the only time I ever really did get like nervous was when we did live TV performances because so, you know, I played with the artist Tosier, Irish Lad had that big hit, Take Me to Church. Yeah. And it was great. I mean, I definitely it wasn't my music. So I didn't have that pressure to carry the show. I just did what I do best, which was have a good time. Yeah. Right. And so that's, you know, and that's, that's a good energy to bring to any situation. But you know, let alone a live performance, like when you're just kind of free, it's, it's a collective freedom, you know, you

kind of have like that license to just enjoy yourself. And it's something I've actually really, you know, converted into my own music is like I learned so much playing with Tosier. And I was an apprentice in a lot of ways. And I was limited, which was humbling, you know, because I didn't get to, you know, when you do background vocals, you sing a specific way to support the artist that you're singing with. Sure. And so, you know, I definitely could feel the restrictions as a front woman, you know, that, that like need to, to really just let loose, but you don't do that. Because, you know, obviously I'm like, I had a job to do. That must have been painful sometimes, too. No, um, you know, it not in like that, like, I wish this were my show. I never felt like

covetous, because I really love Andy. Tosier's name is Andy. I really love him and, and care about his music, you know, but I definitely was like missing my own thing. And there was, there were times when I was so exhausted from just because they really tore it hard. I mean, it was like a blur. So much is a blur. Right. And how many shows? Approximately? I toured with them from August of like rehearsals were a month. We did a lot of rehearsals in the basement of, of this old club in Dublin. So I wouldn't see like sunlight for weeks at a time. It was like this old, like, you know, I would imagine it was probably a couple of hundred years old. Maybe, maybe I'm wrong. But anyway, we did like extensive rehearsals. And

then I mean, I would say hundreds, maybe. Yeah, it had to have been hundreds because I toured until July of this past summer. My last show with them was Glastonbury. So I played in front of like, you know, 60,000 people. And then I got on a plane and came home and I, I like walked into the door of my apartment and I was just like, okay, all right. Wow. I actually had this really crazy experience because I told you earlier that they sold the house I live in. And they did a lot of big changes while I was gone. So it was just like the worst time to come home and then have my home like changed dramatically. Wow. And they cut down all the trees on the property. Oh God, that's the worst. And I, and then they took all the grass and everything out. So

it was literally just like an ocean of dirt. And I felt like I had this moment where I felt like Alec Baldwin and Gina Davis and Beetlejuice when they realized they're dead and they can't leave the house because of the sandworms. I was like standing on my front door porch and I was like, oh my God, am I dead? Yeah. That's what it's like. Yeah, that's what it's like. I think that's a perfect description of the situation because it's like, you know, you go from one dream, which is already the most bizarre dream. I mean, it's a dream that very few people get to experience. That is very true. And for a lot of people, it would be their version of hell to find themselves suddenly standing in front of 60,000 people. That's a nightmare. But then to jump out of

that dream, to come back to your home life here and then to see a dirt. Sometimes I really, without like sounding psychotic, sometimes I am pretty convinced that this thing that we're in right now is just one big fucking joke. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that sometimes. Like it's a joke dream. It's a dream. You know, I don't sometimes it's a joke. Sometimes it's not. But that, you know, it's like, well, in all transparency, you know, I left the tour early because I needed to make my next record. And I had started, I also opened for Hosea last winter in Europe, and it went really well. So I had all this traction, I had an agent, I have an agent now overseas, and they wanted to book me on these festivals and things. And so I had to make that leap or take that leap to say,

hey, I have to leave this tour. And like, you know, it's comfortable financially, like everything is fucking done for you. Like all you do is sleep, rock and fucking party. And like you wake up and there's catering, there's food. And in a lot of ways, it's not a good thing. And I'm not a lazy person. So like after a while, I had a hard time with the lifestyle. I think just because I knew how much work I needed to do for my other projects and not to sound ungrateful, because it was amazing. But you know, you get to this point where you're like, I have to, I got to get out of this. Right. So like it is pretty ironic to have come home to a sea of dirt and be like, all right, now you got to rebuild. And it took me a while to get over it. Like I definitely was really fragile.

I call my mom crying all the time being like, am I done? Like what's happening? You mean you felt like when you say done, you mean that's you felt like you peaked or something? Yeah, but it's not true at all. That's just like a lie I was, you know, kind of caught up in. You know, bouncing around my brain for a minute. But you know, success is the strangest of things. Yeah. Because people who get it feel like they're failing more than people who don't have it. Yeah. It's the most bizarre thing. It's like, what is that line? There's that great song, my friend did a cover of it. Oh my god. How does that song go? It's like, don't play the chords of love. You know that song? No, what is it? It's like a song about song. So the lines are something

like I saw him on the stage last night by the stage last night, he breathed his last breath. A needle full of heroin was all that he had left. Oh Jesus. So think about the more you succeed, the more you'll fail. Yeah, don't play the yeah, play the chords of love. Don't play the chords of fame. Okay. I know it's like really ringing a bell. But yeah, it's like an old truth to that. I mean, I think the thing is, it's like in any profession, in any position of power, whether you're, you know, the manager of a restaurant or you're, you know, a lead singer of a band or, you know, you have your own podcast, you know, you have to manage yourself. You have to manage your emotions and your ego and your fucking gratitude. You know, I think that that's a big one.

I've noticed in some of my friends that have risen to success or fame or whatever you want to call it. I think success and fame are two different things, by the way. I don't know if. Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's not like. Fame can be like terrible disease. It's, you know, it was an interesting thing to sort of be in proximity to with Hozier's crazy fans. Like they're great. I didn't want to say crazy, but he has like super fans. Rabbit. People that like spend their life savings going to his shows. And you know, it will get weird when people will try to get to the band to get to him. And you know, you just kind of like feel for the guy, you know, but he handles it really well. How does he handle it? He is very gracious. He usually says hi to every single person

after the show. Wow. You must have an immune system of steel. I don't know about that. Maybe. I mean, here's the thing. Personally, when I do that after my shows, I usually end up losing my voice because I talk too much. So there's like, there's a, you know, depending on how big the crowd is, sometimes it's not that big, you know, it's walking the park. But you know, at the end of the day, kind of back to what I said, you know, you just have to be a good person. Like, right? That's, and that can be really hard when you're really successful and you're a boss. Okay. So if you're a boss and people make their living and they're employed by you, there's all of a sudden this like, you know, there's a chain of command, there's a hierarchy, and you're aware

of it, right? Yeah. And then like, some of that feels really good. Right. Feels really fucking good to be a boss. Sure. But you're still accountable. And that's where I think people really lose, they drop the ball. I do. I think that like, it's sort of like, was it, was it Bernie Sanders on Rogan that he was talking about? No, it wasn't Bernie. Who the fuck was it? If you had any advice for politicians of today, what would you say? I think it was Bernie, I could be wrong. It's okay to be wrong. Yeah, sure. Like, make a mistake and own it. Sure. But yeah, like, wait, that's what he said. I, that's what somebody said. I got confused because you're like, I thought it was Bernie, but I could be wrong. Right. But you, when you make a mistake, it's okay. I got confused. Yeah,

no, that was what the quote was. What was the quote? The line was, you know, it's okay to be wrong in a position of power. It's okay to be wrong and be a senator or a governor. Yeah. And like, you don't have to lose your job because of it. Sure. You know. Yeah, we have really ridiculous expectations for our celebrities and leaders that are so insane. It's absurd. We expect them to be in Godlike or to manifest like Jesus level patients and stuff. When people freak out, that whole thing with Warren and Sanders, where she's like, you call me a liar on national TV. When was that? That just happened. I didn't know about that during the debates. Oh, no. But it's like, of course, they're under so much pressure. Yeah. I can't even imagine what that

feels like to have to be any of them. I feel horrible for them. What a mess. It's a shit show. Perilous, ridiculous career path. I want to do that. It's just madness, if you ask me. But anyway, yeah, I love that. I think they can't give yourself a break. But earlier you said, you think there's a difference between success and fame. What's success for you? What does that look like for you and your mind? When do you get to sit down and say, okay, I did it? Okay. You know, I mean, because you already have performed for 65,000 people. Yeah, but it wasn't my music. So that was a job for me. That wasn't like a dream. It was fun. But if it were my own music, I think that'd be the whole emotional, holy shit. My music brought me to that place. That's insane.

But again, I have so much respect and reverence for my friend who did that with his music. But so it was just a different feeling. But I guess success for me is definitely financial abundance propagated from my work, from my art in all the different areas that I liked to make art, like with music and acting. And I've been developing a TV show that's sort of percolating and had some attention in its exciting. But I want to be able to have a sustainable living as a musician on a much larger scale than I'm at right now. Right. And I want to own a house. You want to what? Get a dog. You want to own a house? Yeah, I do. Get the hell out. You can't own a house these days. You got to be in the Illuminati to own a house. You got to find a buried

chest of gold bars. I'm fine with that. Give me a shovel. Let's go. At least a house in LA. You know, my wife and I are like, you know, moving and we've been looking for a place and you really do start getting like a kind of vertigo when you look at how much it's insanity, how much it costs to get a place out here. Much less to buy one. I know. To buy a house. Well, the market's about to crash. Who says that? A lot of people. I've heard that. I don't and then I've also heard that's not the case. The market isn't going to crash. It's just going to, because it's foreign investors, it's oligarchs and shit buying houses out here in LA. Oh no. So it isn't going to crash. It's oligarchs. I don't know what you're saying. I want

to be one. I want to be a Russian oligarch. Is that your version of success? Russian oligarchs. Fuck yes. Fuck yes. I was talking to a friend of mine. We were discussing like the, we were discussing the, the insanity that descends upon people when they get famous. And I was telling him, I want to feel that crazy. I want to, I want to, I want to just like do it. I want to go like, well, who's that guy? The mogul who like Hearst, William Randolph Hearst, didn't even lose his shit, bought this massive mansion, went up into the top of the mansion. Yeah. His daughter also got kidnapped and became like, you know, uh, like a neo terrorist crazy lady. Isn't that Patty Hearst? Holy shit. I never made a connection. Oh yeah. Oh my God.

Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Yeah. Yeah. Because why wouldn't you go nuts? I mean, you're like that. We are, you just, you know, my experience of being, of living off of a podcast has been magical and weird and so different than when I used to have a day job that it's surreal enough. Yeah. And you, you know, your, your experience performing or regardless of whose music it is performing in front of us, an ocean of people and then coming home to a sea of dirt, an ocean of dirt. Yeah. An ocean of fucking dirt. You know, that's surreal enough. But imagine getting caught in the updraft that some of these people get caught in where presidents are sending you just casual letters and shit and you're like aware of alien technologies because you're kind

of investing. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. You think so? I do. I don't, I don't know. Hey, look, if I get there, you get there. You know what I mean? Cause you're my friend. That's how I see it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, yeah, that's the other. We all have to pull ourselves up into the upper echelon of the Illuminati so we can finally experience what? Cause to me, that's the funniest thing about it. William Randolph Hearst. They're probably bored. Johnny Cash. Yeah. There was a happy guy. Boy, did his success make him act, you know, how many times again and again and again, these people, Johnny Cash crawling down into a coal mine to die. William Randolph Hearst up in the, in the attic of his massive mansion,

just eating his own turds. You know what? Was he really? That's my version of it. Now I'm going to have to sit with that one in my thoughts. Thanks for that. That's fucking gross. Wow. Yeah. Well, I think that that's, that's the thing. It's you, your perspective changes, obviously. And then so do the people around you. Like if you don't have good friends, you've got people that are trying to take advantage of you. Yeah, that, that would, that would change everything. Yeah. You know, they have, um, dating apps for really rich people. What? Oh yeah. Like they're, I actually know someone who designed an app. I don't know what it's called, but it's like $25,000 to be on the app. So clearly you're already part of a, it depends.

It could be like, I think there's like different tiers. I'm pulling this out of my ass. You have to pay them $25,000. So is it on the Apple store? Did they just withdraw from your account? I might be exaggerating. I know there's one that's like five grand to be on. And I feel like I heard somewhere there was one that was 25 grand, but anyway, you know, five, 25, whatever. There's probably one where you have to kill someone and send them the video. I mean, that's just for assassins. Yeah. That's the assassin dating app. Yeah. How many people have you killed? Well, oh man, I'll meet me in the park. Uh, it's so stupid. But I think that people that have that much money like want to make sure that they're going to meet someone that like fulfills all of

their needs in this way. It's really gross. I can't, well, I don't know. That sounds judgmental. I think that- What's the gross part about it? It's okay to think it's gross. The gross part, the gross part is it's like, I'm so old fashioned in that like you see somebody and you meet them in that way where you, you really connect in just, you know, a natural, organic way. Yeah. Like fucking looking into their eyes. Yes. And saying, oh, you're cool. Yeah. And I want to spend more time with you. Yeah. I love that shit. Yeah. I don't know how to conduct a dating app. Oh no. And feel like there's anything remotely healthy about just for me, because like my sister met her husband on match.com and they're so great. They're a great couple. I'm really happy for them.

Wow. But like, and I have a lot of friends that have done the same thing, but I just need a different, I just, I just need a different landscape. I just want to like hear what somebody's voice sounds like, you know, not like their profile that they put together to like make themselves look fucking awesome. Oh yeah. I would probably date the person that made themselves look stupid, because I would think that's funny. Right. You mean, well, that's a whole genre of dating profile. I'm sure I'm an idiot. I like to put my hand in coyote mouths and I'm a drunk. Let's get together. Yeah. That's a whole genre. I know what you mean. It's like, but, but like you, you run into people who regardless of the dating profile. Yeah. I mean, when that's dating itself

is trying to penetrate the mask at least enough so you get some approximation of who the person you're with is like, you know, which you usually aren't going to get until way deep. Yeah. Don't fucking know it. Do you know? Yeah. Me too. I know it because I see it in the other people's faces when they're like, Holy fuck, Duncan, who is that shadowing you? It's like, I am the devil. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We all have it. You know, that's the thing. We got that in us. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you're not, we need, that's what we need. I haven't seen the devil shadow. Where is it? In me? Yeah. Oh God. We're like a half a bottle of tequila and some bad news away from that. Shit. That is great. Oh man. Now I know where the keys are to that door. Don't open it. Don't

open it. I'm in therapy, man. Have locked that shit. We're working on it. I had to go, yeah, we're working. I, you know, one of my teachers, Ramdas passed away recently and I was thinking like, Holy shit, like of all the, the only real advice he gave me was that I need a therapist and I totally didn't listen to him. And now I have a therapist. It's the best thing I ever did. Oh my God. I love my therapist. Yeah. Wow. I've had two therapists in my whole life and both of them, I honestly got like, don't know where the fuck I would be without all the work that we did and it's life changing. Yeah. Shit does not go away without effort. God damn it. Like it just doesn't. No. It doesn't. Yeah. It's in there. It's in there. Splinter after

splinter after festering psychic splinter. And I, I, there's a part of me that like gets off on the progress of like, it's like a video game. You know, I got to the next level of my trauma and then, you know, it's, I don't know. Like I can't imagine going back to the first level. I can't, it's impossible. That's like lifetimes ago. This episode of the DTFH is sponsored by Blue Chew. Blue Chew brings you the first chewable with the same FDA approved active ingredients as Viagra and Cialis. Blue Chew is prescribed online by licensed physicians. So you don't have to go to the doctor's office or wait in line at the pharmacy and it ships right to your door in a discrete package. I have tried

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Remember, it's the same ingredients as Viagra and C. Alice. What's better than that? Blue Chew.com. Use offer code Duncan. Thanks, Blue Chew. Well, it reminds me of, well, you know, like my wife just love these glasses, by the way, these are fucking nice. Oh, thank you. You know, they're the only glasses we got that aren't from Ikea. They're great. And so this shows that you're an esteemed guest. Oh, wow. I brought down, I think these are the parrot glasses. Well, I'm a huge bird nerd. So are you really? Oh, yeah, yeah. What's that called an or, is there an ornithologist? You're a freaking ornithophile. Exactly. You're a bird lover. Oh, bird molester. Oh, my God. That on your dating profile.

Nice to meet you, Hawkman3276. Watch out. Oh, man. No, I grew up with birds. My mom had, she used to breed cockatiels as a hobby and like put an ad in the paper and find homes for them and sell them for like 75 bucks a bird, maybe more. So like we would hand feed them and she also had an African gray parrot. Wow. And they're so smart. But aren't they like, they're like smarter than like. They have the intelligence of a seven year old human. Holy. So there's this incredible, she's a doctor, scientist named Dr. Irene Pepperburg. And you can look up these videos on YouTube and she had this famous bird named Alex who's an African gray. And she trained him and also exhibited the fact that it's not just repetition. They actually have conscious thoughts.

So she would say like, it's so fascinating. Like you have to watch this at some point. She would present the bird with a tray of items, like little blocks and triangles. And she'd say, find the green block. Right. And he'd pick it up. Right. And she'd say, what matter? And he'd say, wood or wool or, you know, or paper. And, and there's certain, it's the craziest thing. And he would get tired and he'd say, I'm tired. I want to go back. Or he'd say, you know, like, I'd like a treat, please. I'd like a peanut. It's like craziest thing to witness that kind of communication. Inner species communication. Yeah. So birds and apes. Dolphins. Obviously, you know, apes doing sign language and stuff like that. Like it's nuts. It's nuts. Nobody wants to even think,

like it's hard for people to think about that. We want to imagine that everything except us is kind of dumb. Really? Who wants that? You want that? Well, I think, because I think suddenly if you really have to, no, I don't want that, but it's a kind of convenient if you're a carnivore. Yeah. And it's certainly convenient if you just want to like focus on your own suffering. If you imagine every other living wants to fucking do that. Well, it's because now suddenly you're like, God damn it. So now these lonely African grays are peddling around wherever, basically imprisoned by like intelligent monkey descendants who are making them pick up blocks when they can fly. It's not exactly the best life that can happen to a thing as much as I love them.

There's that other element of like, they shouldn't be in cages. They outlive their owners most of the time. They live to be like 80 to 100 years old. So if you get a bird when you're 40, like somebody's going to have to take it, you know, when you die, I actually, I was on a road trip with my really good friend and we stopped in Santa Barbara and for lunch or something. And there was a parrot rescue reserve there. And it was so sad. It's broken hearted parents. They were all in cages, like lined up like hundreds of them, like cockatoos, macaws, grays, Amazons, like beautiful, beautiful birds. And they're, you like walk by and it's like, they're all like, Hey, come here, come here. Like they're talking to you. They just wanted attention. I know it's bad. That's a whole

way of sorrow. But guess what? Here's the upside. I feel this is important to say, if anyone did want to get a bird, you asshole, just kidding. You should rescue one because there's so many people. They're loud. People get them and they get rid of them. Yeah, they don't realize they need so much attention and healthy environments. And they, there's so many sweet little buddies that need to be rescued. Oh guys, go get yourself one of these birds, you know, you just hopefully you get like a bird that wasn't in the house of a lunatic. Cause then it'll say weird shit to you. Oh my God, was it? Oh, we should look it up. He kills me. Is it president Truman or somebody? They're like, one of the presidents had a parrot that recently died, but it was like, oh my God, like decades ago.

Oh my God. I want to say it was Harry Truman. Jesus Christ. What if the parrot gets like knocked off, they come in and like fake the parrot suicide inside information. And it was also like vulgar as fuck. Like it was like a foul mouth parrot that was one of the presidents of the United States. We worship reptiles. I'll praise Malik. I'll praise Malik. Oh God will live forever. I'm out of children's blood. Man, we need, oh, I think it died, but I was like, let's go find that bird. Yeah. Like that's such a weird. We'll get on the assassins dating app because they have extra skill sets. We're not going to kill it, but they'll help us find it. Yes, that's what we do for sure. We become assassins and adopt a bunch of birds. That's my success. I want a massive house filled

with hyper intelligent parrots and the blood of thousands of people on my hand. I think we just wrote a movie. Yeah, I think we did. Oh, I think the movie is definitely, oh my God, it's so funny. It's the movie would be someone like adopts a parrot that used to belong to an assassin. And then of course they put themselves in there. Take that, John Wick. The pair. Yeah, that's right. The pair would have to keep giving some weird like string of numbers. And then the nerd friend is like, that's an IP address, man. Put it in. And then, you know, something like that. That's great. Oh my God. We did it. Wow. Wow. Holy shit. If you guys make that fucking movie, you send us some Bitcoin or something. Right. I can get on that. I need to buy a house. Yeah.

You know, to me, this is like, I've been, I just teared up a little bit. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, it was great. You know, I've been realizing cause of therapy that if I don't figure out a way to be relaxed right now, I'm fucked because it's like, I've, you know, I've been realizing like, holy shit. Like I have my condition for being able to just really like chill. I need like, it's so dumb. I need two empty calendar days. I want nothing to happen for like two days straight, nothing. I want to try with that. What? That's great. That's, I've got a toddler. Yeah. That's not gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I've got a podcast and I do, I tour and do comedy and it's like the reality of it is that's not really gonna, that's not coming down the pipes. That's not a

real thing. And also even if it were a thing, you've, I've still created a condition for happiness for a sense of chilling out to happen. Don't you think that whenever we construct some place where this is where it's going to be good, we essentially produce instantaneous suffering because right now we can't do it? Well, I think there's, first of all, I think there's different formulas for everybody. So like what works for me might not work for you. You know, like, like we were talking about Rogan the other day and he's like, you know, super human. Like I would imagine that. Oh yeah. I was saying, don't ever compare yourself to Rogan unless you want to be miserable. His fitness and his health is his, you know, that's his medicine. Right. And probably weed,

you know? Yeah. But also like, so I told you about this thing I've been doing, but I don't know if I can like speak fully on this brain wave therapy I've been experimenting with. It's called Saraset. Yeah. And because my sleep's been on and off, but it's supposed, it's supposed to take four to six weeks. And what it is, is this, you put on this like, this headband that attaches itself to your frontal and temporal lobes. Cool. And it, you put headphones in your ears and it basically bounces sound off of your skull. Wow. And it's able to, which is so crazy because if you've ever seen the like, I'm sorry, do you hear the sound? Is it like a vibrato? That's a series of tones, like it's super weird and you have to just relax and listen to it. And it's, I would imagine it's

like, have you ever seen somebody put sand on top of a speaker and then vibrates and it creates like an alien shape and you're like, what is this fucking symbol from another dimension? Yes. You know, sound is vibration. So it vibrates off of your, your skull and it's able to determine your stress level and where like, if you're like too much on your right side of your brain, as opposed to your left side of your brain, it starts to even out the frequencies. Whoa. So I will say, I did have a couple nights where I, when I saw you at the grocery store, I slept for 10 hours. 10 hours. But it is definitely like, calm me down. Like in a very, like, I'm like, is this because PS you can't, which is, I'm sorry to say, you can't have any booze

or marijuana or CBD and those are like my favorite things. So I'm like, this is how badly I want to learn how to sleep to cut that shit out of my life for four to six weeks. I'm only on day six, but I feel really good. It's, I'll let you know in a few weeks how I'm feeling, but like, I will say like instantly, I feel a different, I just feel chilled out. I feel fine, you know, in a way that like normally if you would ask me how, how, you know, what's going on, how are you? And just be like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm so busy running from that tiger that keeps chasing me for 10 years. You know, the invisible tiger of the past. I can't seem to get away from it. Every night it wakes me up three in the morning. That's cool. Well, I mean, holy

shit, that's exciting to imagine. Yeah. The technologies are coming out. Sure. They can balance your brain in some way. That's beautiful. Well, PS and, you know, I meditate. I love yoga. I do all that stuff. But one of the things the facility brought to my attention, which is something I've never thought of in terms, because my insomnia is fucking tenacious. Like I've tried everything. What do you got? Which kind of insomnia? I've got the fall asleep right away and then wake up with just like, I'm talking. I've got ideas. My brain just does not shut off. What time do you wake up? Two or three. Yeah, I got that one. Yeah, yeah. Three a.m. wake up. Yeah, and you're just sort of like tossing and turning. I grind my teeth so that my neck gets super tense.

I just went to the dentist and I'm getting a night guard. You're getting a date me. Give me a break. You having a night guard is not keeping any guys from having a date. Oh, that's sweet. Well, come on. What kind of dude is like, well, you know, the... You know what I'd like to think is they're like, that bitch takes care of her teeth. Yeah. You know, I just thought she was incredible until I saw her night guard and then I hit the road. What kind of psychopath is like that? Not the man for me. Not the man for me. Looking for a woman without a night guard for once. It's the night guard that's causing the problems. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah. Three a.m. wake up. It's the worst. Yeah. Oh my God. I wake up. What do you do? Yeah. Well, now what I do,

now what I do is I, I remember when it first started and I would have on my mind something. It would be something that was bothering me from the day before and usually it'd be very paranoid, whatever I was thinking. It would be just like, God, that person's out to get you. They don't wear that. Yeah. And then I would kind of believe it. And then that would like make the anxiety worse. Now when it happens, I just am aware of like, oh, you're not fooling me this time with whatever the bullshit is that you're regurgitating to try to terrify me. And then I stay awake. I just don't go to sleep. What I do is the greatest cure for insomnia that I have found is a little something called Xanax. No, I'm just kidding. The greatest cure I've found is

waking up at 4 a.m. Yeah. So just to get up. Yeah. Oh my God. Set your alarm. So you go to bed at 10, you go to bed at midnight, whatever, you're going to wake up at 4. It doesn't matter. You're waking up at 4. You wake up at 4 that first day and you're going to feel crazy. You're going to be exhausted. Usually you would only do that if you had a flight or something. Your body is going to be like, what are you doing? Oh, I see. And then you sleep the night out. Yeah. Wait until 9 o'clock rolls around. You are going to pass out. I call that a one night stand. Yeah. One night stand. Like, you're in Yeah. Usually after I like hook up for like a night or two, like the next night I am just out. There you go. That's the solution. Fuck the brain device. Oh my God. No, that's not the solution.

Well, just exhaust yourself. Yeah, that's, yeah, because the problem with those is like, it's, you know, now you've added this entire complication to your life with whoever though. Oh, it's so complicated. So complicated. No, I really am not going to advocate that at all. But what I was going to say earlier about the Sarah set, what I learned was that they asked me, so they really tailored to people with PTSD, very high stress levels. And if you've ever had a head injury of like a significant head injury, and I have, I had a really bad jet ski accident in my twenties when I was like knocked out, I was concussed. I had two points of impact on the front. I mean, I definitely could have died.

I'm like very lucky that I didn't. How long were you unconscious? Not long, but I came to in my life vest in the water and I saw my friend look at my, look at me and go, oh, and I went, what? And I felt my head and I had a hole. Oh my God. Because it, I got hit right above my eyebrow. So it like, it like broke open like this like huge gash. It was disgusting. So you were gushing blood. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They had to shave my eyebrow to sew me up. What did you slam into? I think the handlebars and then I must have like flipped mid air because I think the back of my head got hit on the jet ski as well. But either way, yes, I've had a significant head injury.

And what the, you know, company was explaining to me was that, you know, when you've had that kind of head trauma, it really goes a long way and, and can, you know, just release your adrenaline hormones all the time and especially when you're sleeping. So what this Sarah said is, is like evening out that activity. But you know, it's also like stress is hormones. It's your cortisol levels. Like it's a bunch of shit. And so it's kind of cool to be sort of cleansing while I'm doing this. I'm cleansing my liver because I'm not drinking all that stuff. And it's so, I feel so emotional. You're feeling. Yeah. Fuck. I mean, not that I have, I'm not like an alcoholic, but you know, I'm a regular cocktailer. I love martinis. We've talked, I think I made martinis

at your house last time I hung out with you guys. Yeah, I know what you mean. That that is a really fascinating thing. I mean, I wonder what would happen if you weren't using the device and just were, you know, taking it all out. Taking it all out. I wonder what would happen to your sleep. You know, the concussion stuff, I've heard people, you know, who have gone to ayahuasca shamans. I really want to do that. And you have like actually said to them, like, I can tell from your energy form that you've had a concussion. Like they can see it in your, like they get, cause you know, it's like, think of what happens when you drop a hard drive. Yeah. You know, it just fucks it up. It's like that. You get like, I had a concussion. Yeah, actually woke up in

the hospital when I was a kid. Fuck. Yeah. I could play piano after it was weirdest thing and speak seven languages. I was just going to say, what language could you speak? It was incredible. Yeah. Before that I had a 40 IQ, but now it's like a 700 or something. Just like math skills out the ass. I love having shit to blame. Yeah. I like having my concussion to blame stuff on you. Yeah. Okay. There you go. I like it, but, but, but then ultimately though, anxiety, I'm really interested in it as we sit here and gulp back coffee, by the way. Oh, it's so good. Anxiety is a, is, is, is like addictive. Stress is addictive. There's a book I'm reading. Okay. Which talks about how people are completely addicted to, I guess, cortisol or whatever.

Yeah. Of course. Snorting cortisol. Wait, really? Well, not literally. I was like, how is that possible? I've got some dried cortisol. What's in this coffee? Yeah. Cortisol. Stress, stress hormone. But it's like, it's a pretty great fuel. You know, people who have ADD, for example, get, they procrastinate because if you procrastinate long enough, it causes you to get so stressed out that it releases so much of whatever that shit is that it gets you high. And in that high state, you can focus and get stuff done. And then weird. Yeah, it's weird. So a lot of paramedics, a lot of comedians, a lot of like people who do like fire and rescue and stuff like that. A lot of musicians and people who like have relatively high stress

stuff, uh, are self-medicating by producing stress for themselves. That's so fascinating. Sounds weird. Yeah. I mean, I got unpacked that for a second because it makes a lot of sense. And also, you know, well, I told you, one of the things I asked the Saraset company, I was like, wait a second. I was like, if I start sleeping and I become really chill, like, am I still going to be funny? Like, what about my cat like reflexes? Like, I always catch the glass before it falls off the table. You know, like, is that going to change? You're just going to let it drop. No, I don't know. I don't fucking know. But I'll find out. And also, I would like to live a healthier life and sleep like, like, I don't want to say a normal person because I don't know what's normal,

but the thought of like really sleeping regularly is mind blowing to me. Oh, like a full night sleep every night? Like every night. People do it. I've heard of this in the same way I've heard there's a big foot. There is a big foot. And he sleeps in horrible sleeper. Oh my god. Now, here's the what I want to know is, do you ever think that maybe that the tiger we're all running from that if it like just sometimes I got the sense of dumb. I had this great channeler on the podcast once a few times his name is Paul sell like he channels these this like this is a very intense I need to listen to that being but one of the things the entities he channel said to me is, you know, fear is just one of the ways you can learn here. It doesn't have to be the way that

you learn. Right. You can actually learn from joy, happiness, tranquility, but people who have head injuries, maybe a little bit of PTSD or whatever out sometimes I wonder if we're like essentially crack heads and that you know what I mean? We're basically junkies for a high anxiety state a day to day sense of despondency or well, I mean, I yeah, because I guess if we're gonna sort of sit with that for a second, there's a laziness attached to that because if your natural reaction of you know, for is for anxiety and to be like zero to 60 in terms of the way you assess a problem. Yeah, like you have a problem with having a problem. Yeah. There's there's little room for accountability and like work to be done to rectify it if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. So if in

that respect, first of all, if you're in therapy, you're clearly taking steps to not do that. Right. Because after a while, I mean, yeah, you could live like that, but one like you're probably going to lose a lot of friends. Like I don't know how to date that person. And you know, you're also going to be in a perpetual state of misery and I can't believe that people want to be miserable. Yeah, they are. And but at the same time, I I'd like to think, I mean, collectively, like there's a it's weird. I feel like there is an awakening happening, but there's a lot of people just falling off. And a lot of people just dying to like that just can't handle it. Yeah, like this was a weird Christmas. There were so many people, not in my

immediate circle, but like, like a lot of people that just fucking dropped dead. Like around Christmas time. Are you thinking of like, you mean, friends of friends and like, okay, that kind of thing, a little die off happened in your social group. I think I really do feel this. I know it's a little kooky, but you know, when Trump was elected, it was like this big shock to our reality, obviously, which I am not a Trump supporter. But I think then why are you wearing a MAGA hat right now? What? This is a MAGA hat? Why? I thought it was make. Okay, you're not a Trump supporter. I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm not. I think he's a very dangerous person that is churning a lot of confusion. But at the same time, I think people have become activated in a way that like,

you can't sit by and sort of let the illusion of the government like do its thing. You know, if you really want to make changes and you feel strongly about it, you have to be involved in your community. You have to be involved in your person and like fucking lift a finger. You know, it's not like, it's just, oh yeah, here's this. I'm going to check that box and vote. Like you have to like make changes in your life and do so hopefully with the help of other people that subscribe to that same thought. Yeah. So I think then I also like, I have friends that like have thrown themselves into this washing machine of politics and it's like, just like brick wall, just keep running into it and the anger and just the like going to every protest and like,

yes, I believe in protesting. But at this point, there's so many protests that it's like, I don't know how to focus on the problem at hand. You know, I think it's that like having a problem with having a problem. Sure. And I think that that's sort of where I've seen people fall apart. Like when I said, you know, some people are just like falling off. Yeah, sure. Because they're sort of drinking the Kool-Aid of this destructive state rather than sort of taking a step back and getting your information in a way that doesn't make you crazy. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like if I watch the news, if I watch Fox News, if I watch any news, I will feel physically ill. Yeah. It's fucking gross. Yeah. And that's what it's supposed

to do. Exactly. It's supposed to because then you'll buy the medications they're advertising. All of this. Exactly. And I don't know. I mean, I'm not a scholar. I am just a person. And just this is my own personal experience. I meter the information I take in because I don't want to go crazy. Yeah. But I'm also like working on gathering as much as I can to know what's going on. Right. And then figure out like what can I do to, where's my role, you know? Honestly, I think the best thing that like I can do, I'll speak for myself, is like really be involved in my community. What does that look like for you? Know my neighbors. Right. Know the people at the local businesses. Right. As a musician with a very small platform that I'd like to be a large

platform one day. Just be present, you know, in an authentic way. That's not just me. Like a lot of times when like something bad happens and everybody's like posting about it, you get that like, oh, I should say something. But I don't want to say something unless I really want to say something or if it really means something to me. Right. I think that's important too. Absolutely. There's a lot of just like zeitgeist herd behavior that doesn't really help anybody. It's just kind of a circle jerk and it's annoying. That is exactly right. You see these little hurricanes of terror, fear, anxiety form online. They're like, it's like watching a hurricane form and then you watch it gradually dissipate. But you know, Jesus, I just had this great

conversation with my cousin. I haven't talked to him in probably eight years. We had the best conversation ever. I felt so good after we got off the phone or like when you're like, you know, the person we ran our house from, we're friends with her, you know, we've become not like we're hanging out all the time, but we like each other. And like, I don't know the new neighbors who just moved in, but I remember our neighbors, we met and they gave us like food, which was really cool. And just all this stuff, these are, you know, if you really want to be revolutionary, you know, exactly what you're saying, I think is the way to do it. Because if we're all huddled in our houses, trembling in fear over the,

well, it sounds like you're having meaningful experiences and that's like a saving grace, you know, like you're just talking about your landlord and your cousin, like those things are so, they fill you up. That's, that's the joy thing. That's the Ram Dass joy thing. Yeah. You know, I, I find that like, if you're a bitter person or you're really negative or cynical, find the things that are meaningful and make you feel so happy, even if it's just like, I pet a dog today and it was so cute, you know, even if it's that simple. Yeah. I think that we can definitely create our own prison and you know, you can, you know how to fucking get out of it. I really, I think that I really do. For sure. I, I, it's, we, the thing I've been thinking is I have got to reduce the

number of pieces in my happiness puzzle. Why? Why? How so? Because it's good to have a lot of pieces. No. Cause a complex happiness puzzle that you're constantly trying to assemble with a never ending chaotic phenomena of the external world. It's a puzzle that's always changing. Okay. So take off the oligarch and the yacht. Get rid of the oligarch. Get rid of the yacht. Okay. They're gone. Get rid of the strip clubs. Should I never get rid of the strip club? I, you're a strip club fan. I never could get into. No, I'm not. I'm not. It's so weird in there. But you know, because now I don't want to see my fucking dude friends getting a horny over strippers. That's weird. It's gross. It's pretty gross. I do not like the look on the face of men enjoying lap dances as they try to

act cool. That's so funny. I have to agree with you. Do you know that weird look they get? That kind of like expressionless. It's gross. Grossed like thing. It's like, at least you act like you're enjoying it. Stop acting like you're watching golf or some shit. You know, they get this paralyzed look on their face. Anyway, that's another story all together. I want to reduce my, the stuff I need for happiness to, to exactly what's around me at any given moment, because then I'm going to be happy. Yeah. Then I don't have to wait to turn them. Keeping it simple is important. Including anxiety. Here's a crazy, like, you know, my friend, it was telling me this thing was reminding me of one of Ram Dass's sayings, I guess you would call it, which is

when you fall off the path, that's the path. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. And so if, what if anxiety, insomnia, nervousness, fear, and all the generally unwanted states of consciousness, what do I have control over if they're popping up on their own? The only thing I have control over is resisting them. What happens if when I go into an anxiety? Or accepting them and then, yeah. When you're just like, oh, fuck, I'm anxious. You know, here we go. I may, oh, I'm not right now. Oh, I'm happy. Oh, I'm fucking annoyed. You know, oh, I'm scared about a show that's coming up. Oh, I'm worried about advertisers for my podcast or, oh, I hope my show that comes out is well received. What if all these things, you just let it

enjoy them? Is it possible or is that a spiritual bypass? Absolutely possible. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, you think you can enjoy anxiety? No, I can't enjoy it, but I can accept it. And usually, the acceptance of it tends to dissipate it. And then you have a different understanding of it. And it kind of just like passes. You know, you can't go through life without pain and suffering. You just can't. But you have, if you accept it, it doesn't have as much power as fighting it. Because fighting it means like, it doesn't exist when it does. Do you know what I'm saying? I didn't say that properly, but like, you mean like, fuck. Yeah. Let me work on that for a second. Fighting. Hold on. Let me get one of my writers to come in. Yeah. Okay.

Ted? Okay. Hang on. We're going to pause. And we're back. Thanks, Ted. So, that was a really long 20 minute conversation with Ted. He's a great writer, though. Hell of a beard on that guy. I know. Is that amazing? Yeah. Oh, great. Great. Awesome. I mean, you just got out of prison. Oh, cool. So, you know, it's a little thing. I mean, his boyfriend's in prison. God damn it. Sorry. Did you hear that? My heart breaking. So dumb. No. Okay. I'll speak for myself. He's in an open relationship with his boyfriend in prison. Don't worry about it. Look, I said I'll try anything once, but I feel like that's one. I just don't want to try. Not cool. Poor Ted. That's a tango I don't want to dance to.

So, okay. I hate to be so personal and vulnerable, but I'm just, I'm going through breakup and and it's so much better now than it was a couple months ago, but the fact is like there's days when I'm just really, really fucking sad. And I have gotten fighting it to me is calling a friend and like putting it on them to make it better. Sometimes that's necessary. In the beginning, I needed my friends. I needed my mom, my dad so much and they were there, but there's this threshold where you get to where you have to do it on your own. Healing is always like, yeah, you've got your support groups. Like I think that if you have your therapist, your family, your good friends, and then your spirituality, whatever that may be, and you don't put everything in one place,

but you have it spread out evenly. That's how you really have one different perspectives. So much love coming in because the people that care about you are going to be there for you. But you can't fucking put it all on them. So in this process of me grieving this person that I love very much, I have learned to, when I'm alone, really handle it and cry and then also, thank God, I'm so lucky that I can fucking write a song about it because that's an outlet that I need desperately. And if you don't have that, for fuck's sake, find the thing that you can funnel it into, whether it's jogging or, I don't know, like you're physically, you're boxing or whatever, or you're painting, you're building a chair. I don't know. Streaking. What was the last time

you went streaking? The last time I got dumped. No shit. That's how I deal with my breakups. Come on now. I run naked through neighborhoods. I'll have to try that later. Last time I streaked, I think I was 10. That's probably not true. It was a terrible breakup. Oh man. Well, now I'm stuck on it. I feel like I should do it. Yeah. I know what you mean though. It's like, here is this, like, whenever you get your heart broken, it's, you're in an incredible place and you're the only people who are brave enough to fall in love are given that heartbreak. So you're given this, like, terrible gift from the universe, but it's somewhere in there. You realize that it's one of the more mystical,

if not the most mystical states of consciousness is that state of heartbreak. How often in your life do you really get to experience authentic, life-shattering, catastrophic heartbreak? Not, probably not that often. Not very often. But when it comes, whoa. Yeah. It's very altering. But I do appreciate it. Like, without sounding like I'm not a masochist, but I really, like, I am so proud of the way I've grieved because I, like, I didn't go crazy. I didn't. The thing is, I loved this person, but I didn't lose myself in him. Like, I'm not empty, but my heart hurts so badly. Okay. Like, if that makes any sense. Oh, yeah. Like, my identity is, like, 100% mine,

and I'm really proud of that. Like, it was the first really healthy relationship I've ever had. That's a good sign. Yeah. For you. I feel great and sad. You're just sad. Yeah. But you know, like, I've had, I've, there, in the past, when I was really codependent and really, I can remember breakups where it's like, you're like now a refugee where your homeland has been incinerated. Totally. Yeah. Like, that was your whole kingdom. And now it's gone. And who am I? Because your whole identity was based on the relationship. That's a great metaphor. And that's a sad, sad place to be. But it's, it's still, again, like, you know, when you crawl out of that hole, like, you just have that perspective. And, you know, suffering is an invitation for wisdom. It really is. Right. But

you have to, like, fucking go to work. Right. Which is the opposite of what you want to do when your heart broke. When your heart broke, and you want to curl up in bed and stop and... Well, you do that too. You do both. That is actually some of the work, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. Let it be. Right. It's like, you know, today I am literally going to watch Rick and Morty all day, which actually heals all heartbreak if you want to know the truth. It's one of the secrets. It makes everything better. Yeah, actually, yeah. I had Justin Roiland on the show. Did you really? I sure did. Yeah. Oh my god, I'm such a fan. He is a brilliant person. But what he told me off mic, which I probably shouldn't say now, because it actually

is a huge secret, but fuck it. He told me they put like subliminal, like subsonic soothing sound tones and subliminal messages that actually heal psychic trauma, which is, you know... Are you kidding right now? Do I sound like I'm kidding? Yes. Absolutely not. They use like some kind of... Anyway, you could, you know, you'll, I'm sure it'll eventually come out. I'm not sure if it's legal. Sorry, Justin, for snitching on you. Yeah, but they do have some kind of... Oh my god, some kind of thing that they put in there that's a heartbreak. I'm joking. You're such a dick. I was really with you on that one. I should have not said anything. I should cut it out. I want to create a good spirit. I'm so gobble. I'm not joking. Son of a bitch. It's actually real. Yeah, no,

listen, some of my favorite times have been those moments of like, I'm alone. Can't get off the couch. Can't get off the couch. I really believed you. I'm so mad at you. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. Royland's a genius. I'm sure him and Harmon dude put some weird like deep heartbreak healing rays in their creation. Certainly just creating cool stuff is that in its own way, actually. And the, you know, the God, yeah, you're... This is something that after my mom died, Roshi Joan Halifax, as Zen Roshi said, it's like a windows opened up for you right now, and it won't stay open. It doesn't. The window of heartbreak, it eventually closes. But while it's open, you get to look out at this landscape of truth and reality. Like this is the reality.

Reality of being alive is that... What's truer than death too, you know? My God. What's truer than impermanence? And when you're in love, it's like holy shit. There's a sense of like, God, you know that thing when you're like, man, oh my God, we're going to be together forever. And I just want to lay here with you forever. I just want to... This is going to go on. It's no, it isn't going to go on. It just isn't. It is going to end for sure. And when it ends, you get to... That's that's unconditioned reality. Yep. Yeah. Well, and it's a death of sorts, not... It's a real death. It is. It is. And I think that's another thing I feel is a new part of my emotional lexicon is accepting it. I've definitely been the kid in the past who was just like fighting

it and like still calling and like trying to be like, but wait, you're crazy because I'm amazing. You want to... What? Why aren't we working this out? I'll chase them. Yeah. But I'm not doing it this time and I'm so glad. And one, because I think for the first time in my life, I really know my worth and I really like love myself and nobody is going to... There's no void to fill. So it didn't work out. That's okay. Wow. That is so incredibly adult of you. That is so sophisticated and amazing. And not many people can do that. Like many, many people are incapable of loving themselves to that degree of just being bummed out when something doesn't work out. I mean, people murder people. People... Yeah, that's crazy. God, I was listening to... I think it was Oprah's

Super Soul Sunday podcast. Okay. And she had... Her interview with Jeffrey Dahmer. What? I'm just kidding. That doesn't work. She had a couple on and the husband tried to murder the wife and like she was interviewing couples. There might have been a doctor involved that had these incredibly destructive relationships and her mantra is when people show you who they are, believe them. Yes. And it's really powerful shit. That's cool. We could make fun of Oprah sometimes. That's cool. But that's a pretty solid line of advice. Sure. And then if you don't believe them, it's your fault for not believing them when they clearly showed you who they are, what they're capable of. Yeah. And that's not to say there isn't room for people to change, but in reality,

if it's something intense, like an abusive relationship, you kind of know. But there was a husband who tried to murder his wife. They were saved by their child, like who was like eight. Oh my God. And they still continued to be together, which I thought was fucking fascinating. What? And that's exactly what I said. Are they still together today? I don't know. I mean, the podcast I listened to it in the summertime, hopefully, you know, she's still alive. I don't know. But there was definitely like this, you know, yeah, I've like they changed the guys getting help or whatever. But the point is, can you fuck? No, I don't know. I can't say I'd do the same. Remember when you tried to murder mommy? Remember when you tried to strangle me?

Whoa, the thing just fell down behind you. I wonder if that was like a sign your curtain just fell down behind you. It only falls down when there's ghosts. We've seven to spear. Well, you know what, you know, I was, I'm listening to the New Testament audio book. What? Yeah. So it's like the Bible. It's 7000 hours long. If you want to cash in on Audible, that's what you get. You'll have, you can listen to it for the rest of your fucking life. It goes on and on and on. A lot of it is just blither blather. But some of it's really interesting. One of the things that it says in there, which I do love in the Christian these days think of myself as a Buddhist, but what the, that means I'm probably not a Buddhist if I think I'm one.

Regardless, they're like the, the, the Christian theology I like a lot because one of the ideas in it is love other people because if God loved everyone so much that he would have his own son sacrificed, then surely they're worthy of your love. And then you hear a thing like that and think, yeah, but what about the motherfucker who tried to kill me that my son saved me from? Do I love that person? And what does that love look like anyway? But I think what you were saying, what Oprah was saying, who I think is an alien, what I do, what Oprah was saying in a good way, I mean in a good way, what Oprah was saying is, you know, so when people show you who they are, that's who they are right then. And if you try to reconstruct their identity in that moment

by painting it with like, like mascara and it's not fair to them. Let them have the consequence of who they are, but let them have it not in your vengeance seeking. What if you figure out a way to love that being, not in a way that makes you a rube or abused or anything like that, but is there a way to like at least be, that's my little bubble waking up, is there a way to at least like be on the ground floor of reality with people? Here's where you're at right now, you're suffering, here's where I'm at, you're suffering is making me suffer. And then in that place, can you like love each other and what happens then? Because usually when I'm around someone who's being an asshole, I'm like, I'm out of here. You know, I'm leave it. I don't have

time for that. Yeah. That doesn't do anything. If everyone on the planet was like that with people they found difficult, then we'd all be constantly getting in our cars driving away from each other. It would be an absolute mess. Yep. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a delicate balance. I mean, it's very, it's that give and take a little bit, but don't take too much or give too much because then it's the whole thing's going to topple over. But if you're talking about couples, and when you're cohabitating or coalescing, I think there, yeah, I mean, we live in a very extreme society. And then you kind of factor in fucking movies that influence our romantic aspirations and none of that shit does us any favors.

You mean like the credits roll and like everything's fine? Yeah. Well, just the storylines in general. And I love romance. I really am so romantic. But at the same time, it has to come from the relationship I have with the person I'm in love with. You find your own romance. It's like, oh my God, you know, I love Cheez-Its. Yeah. Like just the little things that create your awareness of each other and being seen. Like when you're with someone, you're in love with them, you want them to see you. Yeah. And vice versa. Yeah. And that's kind of like, I think a great, you know, sort of foundation or bedrock for whatever you're going to build from is just

knowing the, like really trying, you know, getting to know the person that you're fucking giving it to. It's one of the most healing things that's ever happened to me with my wife, because she has had to deal with a 45-year-old, one testicle, dead mom, dead dad. You want to talk about fucking baggage, man. I'm like one of those things, the airport in film and baggage is like, you know, just a rolling cart filled with gunk and junk and unresolved grief and anger issues. And just to thank God, I met her because she has been able to like see it and not completely abandon me or split, but also hold me accountable for it. And then just in those moments, like, you know, that thing you were talking about, like, you know, with therapy where you level up,

it's like, you know, a bag has gotten off the cart, so to speak, you know, the bag that had the thing in it from the thing, that's gone now. So the cart's a little bit lighter. I think a good relationship, you know, I think it involves a little bit of like you're helping each other. Of course. Get some of that baggage at the very least, like getting the old, musty clothes out of the bag and like washing them, you know. That is a beautiful union. Like, that's the goal, you know. I think when you can share your pain with your partner, but not so much that you hurt them with it, you know, that's the key. Yeah. Literally, that's it. But you're gonna hurt them. It's like, you know, it's possible because it's real. It's like, I mean, again, I don't know for sure about this.

We have an incredible marriage therapist, thank Christ, who's like, but, you know, fine, like, yeah, the intention, the intention is greater and greater levels of harmony. Yes. Greater and greater mergings falling in love again and again and again and again. Yes. You know, that, that's the intention in the same way like the intention for me is to get abdominal muscles. It ain't happening. I don't know. I think you, I think you could wash board the shit out of that stomach. Maybe, maybe, but I, you know, for, I think when there's a painfully optimistic about most things. You are. Oh yeah. That's great. Sometimes. And then that's just, but then I fall really far down when I fall sometimes. But at the same time, I'm also like

such a believer in like, in love and in harmony and things like that. Yeah, me too. And myself especially. It's, you know, it's possible. Yeah. It's real. I mean, that shit in the movies is all wrong because it doesn't, it's like everything gets compressed into a two hour period where some issue gets resolved in a ridiculous way. And suddenly this couple is fine. It just doesn't like that with anything. It's not like that, whether you're in a relationship or not. Every single day, you know, you're, is a whole new universe that you're navigating through. But yeah, I'm a romantic too. And I'm an optimist. And I do believe that like, and I know having a family now and a baby and it is possible to have, you know, happiness and joy.

What is that? That's just, that's my neighbor. He's, that's my neighbor in the garage sitting in his car with the, is that the car starting? That's the car starting yet. What happens is he's like, unfortunately, like struggling with a lot of stuff. So he'll go in there and sit in the car till he falls asleep and then the ambulance. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to think of a different thing happening. I have to stop falling for this bullshit. I'm an asshole. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Pain and dark pressure. That's it. I'm leaving that because I just watched Midsummer last night. That's all. Have you seen that shit? No. Please watch it. Okay. I don't know if I want to, but you were saying something before the, you know, suicide attempt

happened. I'm sorry to make it. Why am I doing these guys? I just saw Midsummer last night. What's Midsummer? Tell me about it. It's an incredible movie by Ari Aster and it starts with a horrific suicide situation, which is why it's imprinted in my mind. I'm not making fun of suicide. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. I've lost more than one person to it. It's awful. So there's my, anyway, what I was saying is, God damn it. This is one of the things Ram Dass says and I love it. I would rather be, I would rather be wrong and in love. That's the idea. Instead of trying to be right. And a lot of people who are skeptical, cynical, whatever, they want to be right. Fuck that. You know what? Let me be incorrect. When the final breath leaves my body and I, you know,

I'm showing the great truth of things like actually love was not real. It's like, okay, fuck it. I was wrong. But you, you know, I say your attitude about it is exactly the right way. And if it leads to heartbreak after heartbreak, I'll take that any day of the week over living some safe, dumb, boring, non-roadmanic, numbed out. But I guess people do that. Hey, they really like don't, they're too scared to, to go there. So they just avoid it. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. Me either. I don't. And you know, I also don't know how to like casually date or sleep with people. Like I always will like, unless it's just like a one-time thing, you know, like, like you care about that person, you know, like it's not just like some little,

I don't know. I can't do that. I can't like not care. I never, I mean, like any time those happened to me, it was always like unique, like one night stands or whatever. But yeah, it's just always had this feeling to it that was like, you know, unless you're like with somebody who's like super kinky and just wants to be dehumanized to the point of being like a nothing this thing. And that's what they get off on. I don't think I've ever encountered anybody like that. I haven't either. Oh, wait. Yeah. No, I did once. Really? Yeah. It was really dark. Do I know him? No. I'm just kidding. God, I hope not. I'm joking. Oh man. Yeah. That's dark. Yeah. That's that's even then you're sort of like, Jesus, you don't really want that. This

is but who are we to say? Yeah. The point is, yeah, I know what you mean. It's like, like generally, if you want that sort of thing, it'd probably be better like just pay for it, wouldn't it? Well, it's also interesting when that is like, I have, you know, friends, you know, lots of great friends and like people are into certain things. And it's amazing what people attract when it's in your, you know, it's in your fucking wheelhouse. Yeah. Like your whatever weird thing. And like, I'm saying this without judgment. I'm not like picking on my friends, but like, you know, I definitely have really, like I have this one girlfriend, she's super promiscuous, like anybody, anytime, anywhere, and she just puts out a vibe and it's always married

men. And I am fascinated by it. I'm saddened by it a little bit, but also there she is constantly approached by married men. I'm not saying she sleeps with them, but she's always approached by them. What does she feel powerful by that or so? No, no, no, she does. I don't think, okay, let me let me take a step back for a second. She she's empowered, I think sexually. And she just puts out a vibe and almost like weekly, if not nightly, when she's out, she'll have been propositioned by a married man at some point. It's fucking crazy. That's crazy. Just the same as, you know, like, hey, what's up, I'm married. Well, like, it's just just the same as I have another friend who's been in like several abusive relationships and she doesn't

consciously want to be in them. But it's an energy. It's an energy that like finds that she always found it until now, which is super great. But it was uncanny how many like, like bad, like either physically or emotionally verbally abusive dudes that just like unreal. I have a friend who this guy that whenever we go on hikes, like a gem will crawl out from under a rock and try to like give a blowjob. It's the weirdest thing. See, what I'm trying to do is get in that state where I like where Thor just comes out of the sky or and picks me up. You want a Thor? Yeah. Do you know what a I don't know. I think dating Thor would be such a nightmare. Why? Because he's full of himself. Yeah, he's full of himself. But he's also very loving and flies around with a fucking hammer.

You don't know where he's going. Well, like, okay, first of all, he's, you know, big strong dude and but he's emotional at the same time. Yeah, he's got his passions. Listen. Yeah, I know what you mean. I would love it. Like I would be terrified of dating Thor PS. Like, you know, you only see like the stuff that makes it into the mythologies. You don't know. You're probably just going to be disappointed in him. I don't know. I'll never know until he shows up. Oh my god. You want to summon Thor into your life? You better watch out. It can happen. You know, you can get some version of that. Some like, what are you Viking God? You're looking for like, so your guy you're looking for is a super muscular, mystical Nordic. Well, God, like it, let me, it's more like the proverbial

Thor. I mean, yeah, it'd be cool if they like, you know, he had a nice build. Yeah. But really, it's the inner strength, the sort of, uh, kingliness warrior. Okay. Also, I'd like to think he's a bit of an artist and he's really funny. Okay. Package deal sounds. I'm always meeting guys like that. Great. I'm always meeting muscular, Aryan, Swedish dudes who are also in the water color. It's like when Thor. This guy's got a pottery studio. Well, you know, watch out because when he's talking dirty now, you're sending this friends, Viking friends out there, secret heroes who also are into like ceramics. Listen, this is your soulmate here waiting for you. When I say Thor, I, I really do mean like, just, oh man, I just like, there's, there's a toughness. But, but not

to say that like, they need to be tough all the time. It's just like, be able to handle your shit. You know, but in a way that like, when you can't, we'll handle it together, but like, you're still putting in an effort. You're looking for something that's like, like when the zombie apocalypse comes, I'm going to be standing by this man, like both of us, like, you know, machetes in hand, like back to back. That's what I'm talking about. I can't believe you just said that because my marriage therapist just said to us, you know, that's the idea is you need to be like, dealing with the world standing back to back. Really? She used those exact words, which is, which is so mystical and cool. Isn't that weird that I'm also your marriage

therapist? What is happening? Hey, everybody, guess what? It is like a dream. Open for scheduling on February. I didn't want to say to her, how about we don't fight the world either. It'd be nice, like instead of being back to back fighting the world, we're like back to back, I don't know, making out with the world or hugging the world or making dinner with the world. Just this war thing where, you know, the United States has been at war for 93% of its history. So we're all like, war like people now, but I know what you mean, which is like, you want to be with somebody who isn't going to shrivel at the first sign of something coming. You know, that's the idea. That's what I mean. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry if I said that's what you mean.

No, it is what I mean. No, you didn't even step on my toes, but I feel like that. And I feel like that lately about most friends in my life too, like just making sure I'm spending time with the right people that aren't like draining. So important. There's just no time. There's no time. There's no time. And when you're, you know, my friend, where the gents come out from under his rock and your friend who's having married people and your other friend who gets in weird relationships and stuff, it's like, by the time you're my age, you see these people go through these cycles over and over and over and over again and realize some of them, they are wanting you to be an extra in their movie of pain. And it's like, this is not the way that anyone should have to spend their life.

Now some of our friends, they need help. And those are the people you help because they need it. But some people you're like, wait a minute, I'm not going for this. But they also have to help themselves. Like it's that balance of like, I'm going to help you, but you have to be helping you too. And if you're not, I can't be the only person helping and putting in an effort. And I find that that keeps finding me and I have to keep pushing it out. Like I'm not going to save you. I will be there for you, but like, I'm not going to fucking save you. And it's hard. It's a hard line because you're, again, you're doing someone a disservice if you're trying to take care of their load, you know, no shit. It's like, here's the deal to me. It's like, this is friendship. I'm not a lifeguard.

Right. We're not at the beach. And my job is into swim out and to pull you back. I'll, you know, after I'm, if you're a lifeguard and someone keeps swimming out to sea, right, and you keep going out there and almost drowning, pulling them back in, at some point you've got to be like, I'm not coming after you anymore. I can't. This is your, you're wanting to be this way. What can I do? It sounds harsh. And, you know, some of my teachers, they say never give up on anyone, but Neem Kohli Baba Ramdas' guru said, you can kick somebody out of your house, but never kick them out of your heart. Oh, wow. That's a pretty good thing that I like to think about, which is I love people, but that doesn't mean that I have to constantly. Yeah. Boundaries are everything. Everything. Yeah.

It's a t-shirt. Boundaries are. Oh my God. I saw a great t-shirt the other day. I got to tell you about it. I was at a restaurant. I was at a brunch hang in West Hollywood. Fancy. And there's this guy at a big belly. Bless him. He was fucking great. And he said, his t-shirt said, it's a Carl thing you wouldn't understand. I'm so good. I love that. He had such an attitude just already without even saying anything. It's a Carl thing you wouldn't understand. That's why there's blood all over my pants. Yep. Yep. Yep. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me. How can people find you? Oh, geez. I'm on, you know, the socials, Suzanne Santo, or my handles at susanto, S-O-O-Z-A-N-T-O on the Instagrams. I've got a record coming out this year. Not sure

when, but it's pretty good. I can't wait to hear it. I'll send it to you. Please do. That gets like, send it to you now. And PS, you are about to get an avalanche DM. So just get ready. Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? Oh my God. You have truly opened up. You have opened up the hallways of Valhalla. Prepare. I'm scared. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. It was really great chatting with you. That was Suzanne Santo, everybody. All the links you need to find her are going to be at dunkatrustle.com. Thank you, Squarespace. Thank you, Bluetooth, for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. And thank you all for listening. I hope I see you out there in Denver or Arlington or New York City. Until then, may God's grace shine upon you and your family. Hare Krishna.

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